I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Yes, but they've supposedly stopped the bleeding.
The daily tracking trends show that the loss of support for John Kerry has stopped. A total of 93% of all those saying they will vote for Kerry are strongly committed to Kerry.
Not that 14% is good news for Kerry, but....
With any luck Kerry will finish third in N.H., drop out, and stop trying to destroy Dean. What an asshole.
They're all going to have to eat some crow pie and support Dean in the end, so they might as well get started.
semi-OT, but I've seen a rare reverse-Pickler on AP in a story about Bush fundraising: "In the fund-raising appeal, Bush also pointed to the bitterly contested 2000 presidential election, without mentioning the Florida recount or the Supreme Court decision that ended the stalemate in his favor."
It's a shame that he is so stiff.
Politicians, bless their egotistical
evil hearts, should have more of the
snake oil salesman in them: look at
reagan, the Clenis and aWol...
what amazed me is how much money he's raised. I don't have the figure right at hand but I heard it on CNN last night, I think he was 2nd to Dean last year. Dean raised $40 million (!!!), Kerry was I think at 18MM, Clark close behind.
I lost all respect for him for his flip-flop after Saddam's capture.
Before Saddam's capture: "Yes I voted to authorize war but Bush fooled me!"
Post-capture:"See, I was right to vote for war!"
If this guy were to (ha ha) become President, he'd sell out his alleged Democratic values in a New York minute if he thought it would suit his purposes. Especially if there's a GOP Congress which there likely will be regardless of who wins in November.
Kerry as President == no end to the Patriot Act, no end to tax cuts only for the rich and other disastrous GOP policies.
Bartolo:
Add Swarzengroper to your list.
in 1997 Kerry, Edwards and Lieberman either voted against the Kyoto protocol or didn't bother to vote.
Now they are defenders of environmentalism.
Right.
Time for Kerry to retire and spend some of that ketchup loot.
off topic:
Brazil starts fingerprinting U.S. travelers (source: Reuters)
"Brazilian police on Thursday began fingerprinting and photographing U.S. visitors on orders of a judge who compared planned U.S. security controls on travelers from Brazil and other nations to Nazi horrors.
Federal Judge Julier Sebastiao da Silva, furious at U.S. plans to fingerprint and photograph millions of visitors on entering the United States, ordered Brazil's authorities do the same to U.S. citizens starting on Thursday."
Travelling is becoming so much fun :o
Looks like my next holiday will be to Canada ... heck make that one-way!
a
Seriously now folks.
What will Kerry's concession speech start with? An apology? A joke? A prayer?
How about Gephardts? Ooooo, that will be a nasty one.
Of course, thinking about how Dean would concede to Clark is a nummer, too.
Politicians, bless their egotistical evil hearts, should have more of the snake oil salesman in them
Yeah, one thing that surprises me is the continual amazement Democrats display at the level of support the Republican party has among the population at large. It's simple: most people are gullible (one born every minute, nobody ever went broke underestimating, etc.), and the Republicans have no compunctions about lying.
Yeah, one thing that surprises me is the continual amazement Democrats display at the level of support the Republican party has among the population at large. It's simple: most people are gullible (one born every minute, nobody ever went broke underestimating, etc.), and the Republicans have no compunctions about lying.
Orbitron
Face facts Republicans have set the social and political agenda since Reagan. Clinton's adoption of Republican positions did absolutely nothing to strengthen the Democratic party.
so is it or is it not illegal for the buncha losers to conspire to throw last minute block votes to Gephardt in the Iowa primary for the purpose of defeating Dean? It doesn't seem as if it should be allowable. What's the legal truth of the matter?
Face facts Republicans have set the social and political agenda since Reagan.
By the simple expedient of lying.
Oh boy, it's a circular firing squad! Can anybody join?
That Kerry, what a weasel, what a hypocrite, what a loser. Why doesn't he do us all a favor and shoot himself? We don't need his kind around here. We're beautiful and pure and utterly perfect. If only there were a candidate worthy of us, we'd win the election, no problem. Down with Kerry! Down with Gephardt! Down with Dean! Down with Clark!
"The reason I do is that I'm a former feeling-rather-let-down supporter."
just so long as you don't turn into one of those Pat Cadell, Susan Estrich types who trash all Democrats all the time
I would not worry about candidates attacking one another, this will all be over by March 1. What ever is going to happen will happen very fast.
Face facts Republicans have set the social and political agenda since Reagan.
By the simple expedient of lying.
Orbitron
So Clinton signing Welfare Reform, Defense of marriage, Bouno copyright protection act and shilling for arms merchants are ALL due to Republicans lying?
Can you be more full of crap.
No, they've set the agenda (and continue to do so) by controlling the media.
What trick can the Dems possibly have up their sleeve to counter the republican dominance of the media?
Demand a Refund from Howard Dean
I was just over at Ex-Deaniacs for Clark browsing through all the testimonials. There has been a recent flood of new testimonials, mine included. It is also posted to the Clark Community Network, where it was promoted to the front page (Woo Hoo!).
While reading all the stories written by Clarkies who had once been Dean supporters, I noticed that many of them regretted having contributed money to Howard Dean’s campaign. I don’t think they are aware that it is entirely proper to demand a refund from Dean's campaign.
It happens all the time. A political campaign would rather return the money than have a disgruntled former supporter bad-mouthing its fundraising. They won’t send the money back if you don’t demand it, so get on the phone.
If you have given money to Stubby Dean’s campaign and are now d
If you have given money to Stubby Dean’s campaign and are now dissatisfied with him, call (802) 651-3200 and demand your money back. Be prepared to provide some documentary proof of your contribution, such as credit card records, cancelled check, or receipt. Be polite, but firm. If there is any resistance from the campaign about returning your money, write a press release and letters to the editor. Post it to ALL the blogs you can.
And when your refund arrives, send it to Wes Clark’s campaign!
Politus,
You are an asshole.
Politus, I'm a Clark supporter but Democrats need to unite.
If you donated money to Dean and regret it, that's your bad. It's water under the bridge. Build your guy up instead of tearing our allies down. Dean is on our side.
troll alert
troll alert
politus is a trollus
don't give assholes bad press.
To have the shit kicked out of you on a regular basis, and then to be told that if you fight back you are a hater--well, you know the fix is in.
Can the game be much plainer, in its broadest sense: Money versus Democracy, Reason against Fundamentalism, Control versus Liberty? Mercury pours forth into our soil, and we parse words like gossipy mourners at the funeral of liberty. Our air, our water, our children's piggy banks, our lives demand more.
Goodbye Kerry, goodbye Lieberman--do the right thing and wish the party well. We have one best, last chance at capturing the hearts and minds of a voting majority, a majority who rides on the fortunes of the 20% who nibble at the middle. Make them care, give them hope, inspire instead of frighten, and you have something.
But you have to fight for it. Dean, imperfect and imperfectible, eyes the mantle of freedom. His opponent would cut his legs off before the first round. Let's work to see that doesn't happen.
***
I expected better of Kerry, but then, he truly is a product of the political system. No wonder he feels so threatened - he's fast becoming a dinosaur, and he knows it.
Time for Kerry to retire and spend some of that ketchup loot.
Too funny. 
And as for Politus, well, I guess his comments put the lie to the canard that it is Dean supporters who are too one-candidate dimensional.
Yes, the media is completely in the Republicans' pocket, but there's another reason why the GOP have such a strong level of support from their voting base: The sort of weakness shown by Democratic politicians as they go about their daily routines isn't exactly something that energizes their base.
Watching Joe Lieberman playing Smithers to George Bush's Mr. Burns is a repugnant sight to the people whom he supposedly represents. The GOP understands that, which is why they avoid servility, appeasement, weakness, cowardice, crawling, bootlicking, etc. even when they openly collude with their soullmates in the DLC.
MJS - Dead on.
Politus,
Why don't you come out and admit that you are a Bush supporter and cut the crap? These trolls are on every progressive website playing the same game. If Bush has something you like, support him. But since you prefer to play these little divide and conquer games, it's clear Bush has nothing that even you can brag about.
Now go back and ask Rove what the next strategy is. This one isn't working.
politus...who do I call to get money back from the clark campaign?
Boy, this politus posting is creepy. Maybe we should all write to the bush campaign and ask for our money back.
aimai
As an ex-Kerry supporter myself, I know how you feel Atrios.
It's quite simple. After the 2002 elections any congressional dem is a non-starter. Voters were disgusted and turned off with their performance in the war resolution and their cynical attempt to change the subject. They got their asses handed to them by a half-wit liar. Just listening to Kerry, Lieberman or Edwards on Iraq is pathetic. The primaries are all about energizing the base, and these guys aint doin it.
by the way politus...does bush give any refunds? I mean besides the tax refunds to his rich pals. If only ONE bush contributor asked for his money back, hell that'd be one third of his entire campaign war chest. hold on to your receipts.
Kerry admitted to being in the Skull and Bones during an interview with Tim Russert. As far as I'm concerned, that disqualifies him.
Is Dean in Skull and Bones? Not being a troll, it's an honest question.
I agree, Skull and Bones creeps me out.
It must be amazingly sucky to see your guy's poll numbers drop a point a day for 5 straight days. To go from dreaming that you might be within striking distance to fading fast. But it's hard to feel bad for the guy after the way he's behaved in the last 1.5 years. It's just accelerating now.
Second the amazement about Kerry. On January 3, 2003, I'd have bet anyone that Kerry would be the frontrunner and nominee.
I strongly back Howard Dean and have since the MTP fiasco with Russert last June. Just plain dynamic campaign and Trippi's looking like a genius at this point.
This Dean backer wants Kerry to finish a distant second in NH with Clark closely following.
Old Hat, Dean was not in the Skull and Bones. Matthews asked him that question on his hour long interview. Dean laughed and said he had nothing to do with that group.
Is Dean in Skull and Bones?
No.
Soup -
"It's quite simple. After the 2002 elections any congressional dem is a non-starter. Voters were disgusted and turned off with their performance in the war resolution and their cynical attempt to change the subject. They got their asses handed to them by a half-wit liar."
Hindsight is always perfect, my friend. At the time, it looked like a good strategy. Southern Democrats & those from conservative areas were going to vote for the War resolution, so Dubya was getting a majority vote anyway. By getting some changes (exs. go to the UN, get inspecters in) & voting yes, they thought the 2002 election would become the economy. Unfortunately, the media played the impending War melodrama instead of focusing news on the economic deterioration of America.
Regarding Kerrey: He was my initial choice. I base my decisions, not on a single event (voting for the war), but one's overall track record. Kerrey has been one of a handfull of representatives, over the past 20 years, who has carried the torch for the left in Congress. Unlike Dean, he is definitely on the left. He went along with the Democratic Senate caucus to vote for the resolution to get it off the table so the 2002 election would be about the economy.
(cont'd)
On a side note, check out this letter to editor (Washington Post) about nameless sources
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp...3-
2004Jan2.html
Dana Priest's Dec. 26 news story "Hussein's Capture Not Likely to Harm al Qaeda" was interesting because of the sources she cited, including:
more...
Wow, the establishment must really be scared to come up with this smear:
Posted on Sat, Jan. 03, 2004
Reports: Dean was warned on lax Vermont security
By JOHN SOLOMON and DAVID GRAM
Associated Press
Presidential hopeful Howard Dean, who accuses President Bush of being weak on homeland security, was warned repeatedly as Vermont governor about security lapses at his state's nuclear power plant and was told the state was ill-prepared for a disaster at its most attractive terrorist target.
The warnings, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press, began in 1991 when a group of students were brought into a secure area of the Vermont Yankee nuclear plant without proper screening. On at least two occasions, a gun or mock terrorists passed undetected into the plant during security tests.
He & Wellstone have been the 2 strongest anti-War senators over a range of issues the past 20 years. He's the brightest & most articulate of those running, & would make the best president. I've come to the conclusion, that because of his vote, he won't win the nomination & switched to Clark. However, I find it strange that people here would so gleefully kick dirt on Kerrey. One bad turn does not a villan make. Kerrey would be an incredibly strong candidate against Bush. Oh well, I guess I'm not part of the I'm perfect crowd & no failing should ever be forgiven.
I was just over at Ex-Deaniacs for Clark browsing through all the testimonials. There has been a recent flood of new testimonials, mine included.
Liar. I looked back to the first entries on your blog and you were trashing "Deaners" then too, right out of the gate. At least cut out the phony ex-supporter BS, it sounds to much like something out of the Mooney Handbook (Open every argument by saying, "I've always been a life long Democrat but . . .").
Carter, are you talking about Bob or just misspelling John's name?
Another who began supporting Kerry but switched to Clark.
Reason 1: When he told Dem activists to get over the stolen election. Ignoring the greatest theft of democracy our nation has ever been the victim of does not make you an appealing Dem candidate. Like the Holocaust, we must never forget.
Reason 2: When he smirked to the Heathers, lamely trying to make some internet joke at Prez Gore's expense. Sucking up the whores won't make them like you.
Reason 3: Went to a rally for him and his staff and wife treated us like crap. Shook his hand and he looked right through me, didn't even make eye contact or engage me and this was in June of last year. Came out on a hot summer day, waited for ever and he couldn't even take the time to act like I was alive. A distresslingly unhappy experience.
His campaign has been a disaster. Clark/Dean, Dean/Clark, either way. The DC pink tutu Dems need to graciously (see Prez Gore) concede after SC. Buh-bye Loserman...
Carter,
If you make a bet, and are wrong, you lose. Even if it seemed like a smart bet.
Our congressional democrats made a bet, and they lost,
They lost the support of their base in a gamble to pick up republican/media support.
They should quit whining about it and find a graceful way to rehabilitate their image.
Kerry's poor showing in NH is especially pathetic when you consider that the majority of people in New Hampshire are able to watch Massachusetts TV stations -- which means they've had years of exposure to Kerry as a "local" politician. Whereas the penetration of Vermont media into NH is approximately nil.
"Travelling is becoming so much fun :o"
Just before the Iraq war started, there was a radio report that Powell was considering an order to all Americans abroad to return home. I was going abroad, and was worried I was going to have to defy the government. They would probably rather that we not travel at all.
With regard to Kerry, the same cynicism that lead him to vote for the Iraq war resolution (so he could preserve his "viability" for 2004) now induces him to demogogically attack Dean, not realizing that it just reveals him to be an empty suit who is a figure of the past.
The only thing that concerns me about the Kerry flameout is who does Joe Wilson now support? You want that guy on your team.
Pat Cadell, Susan Estrich types who trash all Democrats all the time
56k
They only do it for the money. If Democrats had made them a better offer it would have been different.
vaara, it's true. The Mass. media is the media of NH. Even WMUR in Manchester is owned the Boston market now. Not that it hasn't improved a bit from old WGOP as we used to call it.
Kerry isn't an effective campaigner, he's not a particularly responsive Senator either from what I hear from his constituents. Still, I'd have supported him if he'd gotten the nomination, might have had to hold my nose a bit but I'd have done it. Wrote to the Globe complaining when Joan V. was jew-baiting him. Jew baiting, in a "liberal" newspaper. Just goes to show what happens when the New York Times corp gets hold of a decent newspaper.
See ya round the phone pole, tutu boys!
Carter, are you talking about Bob or just misspelling John's name?
llamanunts | 01.03.04 - 2:25 pm | #
A thousand pardons. I've been doing this continually. Kerry, Kerry, Kerry, Kerry, Kerry, Kerry
Note to Self: Must get mind off sex & concentrate on what's important.
P.S. Bob Kerrey was pretty conservative.
Ah, love the "circular firing squad" remark. It reminds me of an old puzzle, I will tell it as an object lesson for Democratic candidates.
The puzzle is called "The Truel." We have three people who have challenged each other to a duel with pistols, we're going to involve all 3 people at once so it's a triangular duel, a Truel not a Duel. Let's call our participants A, B, and C.
A is a crack shot, he almost never misses, 95% accuracy. B is a good shot, 75% accuracy. C only has 50% accuracy.
By the rules, there is only one gun, each person gets one shot, then passes the gun to the next person, in sequence. To be fair, we will start with the worst shot, C, then B, then A.
The Truel begins, and YOU are C, you get to shoot first. What do you do?
Shoot yourself in the foot.
um, shoot into the air so that no one has reason to shoot at me? Let B and A duke it out.
If you had really examined those numbers, you'd realize that they aren't really evidence of a "flameout"...
Correct, you shoot to miss. B will be next, he will shoot at the biggest threat, A. If B misses, A will shoot B.
Shoot the moderator.
Party with everyone else.
lost the support of their base in a gamble to pick up republican/media support.
They should quit whining about it and find a graceful way to rehabilitate their image.
derek g |
Ahh Derek...How simple you make things. First, the Republicans had a ton of money for the 2002 election, they badly beat the Democrats & money usually rules. Second, I still find it incredible that the media spent all their time on - are we going to war; I would have thought, based on past experience, that considerable time would have been spent on the economic plight of Americans.
Is there any doubt in your mind, if Kerry (or Clark, Edwards) wins the presidency we will be out of Iraq as quickly as if Dean wins.
Carter,
You find it incredible the media would focus on the war? Really?
Maybe that's because I live in Los Angeles, its pretty easy to figure out what gets on TV. Its almost always the thing that involves either sex or violence. Sex is best, but violence will do. Economic policy does not do much for ratings.
Folks, IMHO Kerry’s ads and Wesley Clark’s ads are pretty terrific and inspiring and they both look like robust, cheery leaders and a big contrast to snarly, swaggering, shady Bush.
I’m looking for both to increase their share.
I prefer their war stance because what it built on was what Dems had maintained since the 90s, that Saddam was a bad guy, regime change was a US goal and what they disagreed with was Bushie’s way of bungling forth and Bushie’s lying and prevarication to hyping the case, which was unnecessary, even if he’d just stuck to the info which both administration’s intel folks stood behind, it was plenty to make a case that something needed to be done.
.....
The part that not just Kerry but lots of us had problems was the needless whoo whoo whoo trying to drum up support for the war, we think a calmer, more collegial way would have mobilized world opinion and bounced Saddam just like Charles Taylor and in a quieter way of course because the former Georgian pres is a whole different statesman from those 2 thugs, but like Georgia happened collegially as well.
Many of us think Bushie needed to be too cute by half and push and pull needlessly because how it looks like is he wanted to have some kind of grass-roots groundswell that could help him to swagger through with his “mandate.”
That part of the whoo whoo whoo is what people are understandably ticked off about, that and the deceptive way he busted off into the Azores and acted like he had had a world summit.
.....
Proof that Dean is a aerious candidate:
Dean Goes to Iowa Game
There are two events, unique to each state and not repeatable, that swung the 2002 election to the Repugs. The Wellstone crash and subsequent furor over the memorial service swung the MN senate race to the Republicans (especially when the Demos nominated Mondale to replace Wellstone; Mondale sounded like a tired old man), and the GA furor over the Confederate flag, which took out Cleland along with the governor as cracker-Republicans came out to the polls in droves.
Contrary to what some people said upthread, Kerry dropping from his lame 19% to just 14% since Christmas is a serious flameout indeed. If his vote is that low in NH, he will withdraw from the race.
oops, that should be: serious candidate
How can you tell if some of the ex deaniacs are working for Bush? They seem so evangelistic to me?
You supported Kerry because he's so French?
If they're bashing Dean, they're working for Bush.
True Clark, Kucinich etc supporters don't dump on Dean.
Only republican spies do.
The goal of attacking Dean is simple: Dean has opted out of federal funding so that he is not limited in what he can spend in Iowa and New Hampshire. The goal is to force him to spend as much money as possible in the early states so that his campaign will be hamstrung and unable to continue due to lack of funds. Ironically, it is Dean's fundraising ability that the Republicans fear the most.
The goal of attacking Dean is simpler than that; re-select Bush!
enemy = bad = kill
If they're bashing Dean, they're working for Bush-capn mike
surely here is unassailable truth
An attack on Dean is a vote for Bush.
OT: Hey trolls, how many US Troops killed since Saddam was captured now, eh?
It looks like the US should have followed it's older and more wiser tradition of listening to their friends, the French
Thumb-
I think you need to read the testimonial of my conversion from Dean to Clark a little more closely. You have the time-line all mixed up. It's clearly spelled out in the post. [HERE]
If you read it, you will see why your comments about it are so asinine.
never trust someone who claims to always be right and who never cops to being wrong, even in the face of documented evidence.
I LIKE Dean because he is willing to talk and evolve right out in public.
Contrast that with Liberman, Cheney, Bush et al, who when faced with fact of their being wrong, instead of copping to it, instead, just pick up the tempo of their "I'm never wrong" dance...
I have been waiting my whole life for a politician who was willing be human....
Personally the only political entity I truely trust with my vote is Cthulu. But since he's been deamed unelectable (the devour the world platform doesn't go over well with midwesterners) I'm gonna dedicate my resources to the Dean camp, it is not perfect but at least he's not kowtowing to republicans.
Anti-Patriot act? Yup.
Anti-War? Close enough.
Anti-Bush Excellent.
Hey. politus. How are things over at the DLC?
"Dean passes himself off as a man of the people, but the guy was raised on Park Avenue, for cryin' out loud. We all deride Bush for coming from privilege, but Dean may come from greater wealth. What does he know of the toil of the working man? I can relate to Bill Clinton, Paul Wellstone, and Lyndon Johnson in a personal, experiential way that I cannot to Howard Dean or Bush. Given the choice, I would prefer a peer of mine, not a peer of British Royalty. That gave me pause, but I tried to keep the faith."
Well that settles it for me. I was worried about the Iraq war, but now that I know about this Park Avenue situation...
Interesting technique. Have Clark blogs diss Dean while he (Clark) stays above the fray. Clever. And this from a guy who is supposedly running a tightly controlled campaign. Squeakly clean General should dissaprove of this approach if he really is above the fray. The criticisms of Dean aren't so different from Clark criticisms. Clark waffles on the war, for it one minute, against it the next. Dean waffles on whether there should be an open trial for Bin Laden if he is ever caught. When factually refuted most of the criticisms levelled against both candidates are distortions. Curious.
I would have supported Kerry. Even after he rolled over for GWB with respect to Iraq, I was willing to give him and my home senator, Tom Harkin, among others, the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they really didn't think GWB would march right over and start a war. Maybe they really did take a stupid pill that day. Or maybe the thugs were threatening their families or something.
But Kerry has never redeemed himself. Trashing Dean is not the way to go; he may as well sign up with the Bush campaign. Maybe the thugs are still threatening his family.
Politus,
I repeat: you are an asshole.
So Clinton signing Welfare Reform, Defense of marriage, Bouno copyright protection act and shilling for arms merchants are ALL due to Republicans lying?
They are a result of his having to deal with Republicans who held real political power during his time in office.
But you don't want to hear about the real world, do you?
What makes me wonder about Politus is that any serious Clark supporter sees how much his campaign owes to Dean. I wonder if Clark would have even declared had he not seen the potential of a campaign that's largely decentralized and involves a serious grassroots effort, firm in opposition to the Iraq War, and conducted by an outsider who hasn't had to compromise with (or, more accurately, hasn't been swindled by) GWB.
The truth is, had Clark entered early enough to pick up some of the endorsements that have gone to Dean, he'd have tremendous traction now. Even as it is, I expect the race to be down to Dean and Clark (Gephardt, too, if he manages to avoid a blowout in Iowa, which I doubt) in five weeks. Personally, I'd say Dean should give Clark the right to name a VP (himself or anyone else) and to pick a position for himself in a shadow Administration (Sec State?). If Clark has pulled ahead, which is conceivable, then he should probably offer Dean the VP, because the Dea
The more hate-filled comments I read from the Clark supporters, the less I want to support him. I hope Dean gets the nod.
Andrew J. Lazarus
Clark is the DLC Clinton guy. he only entered whne the other business as usual candidates showed poorly.
Remember how after entering the fray they ditched the grassroots draft Clark people?
Says it all.
So Clinton signing Welfare Reform, Defense of marriage, Bouno copyright protection act and shilling for arms merchants are ALL due to Republicans lying?
They are a result of his having to deal with Republicans who held real political power during his time in office.
But you don't want to hear about the real world, do you?
Orbitron
Right. You must buy a lot of swampland being an easy mark like that.
And when your wife says size doesn't matter, she means it.
Interesting:
Dean has 38%.
All of the others COMBINED have 43%.
One guy almost equals the other eight.
It's not just Kerry. Don't the others get it, too?
Add in Wes Clark to Dean's numbers and you have over 50%.
So Dean is right. The Washington DC / Beltway / Establishment crowd doesn't get it. Kerry, Lieberman, Gephardt are going down in flames. They are out of touch with the real America.
Dean + Clark = 51%
Kerry + Lieberman + Gephardt = 25%
The wannabes: Edward, Sharpton, Braun, Kuchinich = 8%
I’m looking for Gephardt and Kerry to take the top 2 places in Iowa (in either order) and for Kerry and Clark (likely in that order) to take the top 2 places in New Hampshire.
.....
From politus:
Some things about Dean just bothered me. His 100 percent rating from the NRA is a huge red flag. He and his supporters defend him by saying that gun control is a states rights issue.
I wonder what Clark has to say about gun control?
Not sure who said this (AH politus?):
We all deride Bush for coming from privilege, but Dean may come from greater wealth. What does he know of the toil of the working man?
Dean has not traded off of his 'privilege', certainly not like bush has, unless you know something I don't know. Maybe he has supported his family comfortably, but serving as Vermont governor for 11 years (is that right?) puts him far beyond the label of 'privileged' for me. It's certainly not near a 'star' position. He seems to be more in the mold of a Ted Kennedy in his efforts to serve the people, IMHO.
politus is a DLC tool.
Kerry, Lieberman, Gephardt are going down in flames. They are out of touch with the real America.
Frankly, I think Gephardt is going to do better than anyone might think. Don't ask me why -- it's just a feeling I have.
Just had to see this again:
Watching Joe Lieberman playing Smithers to George Bush's Mr. Burns is a repugnant sight to the people whom he supposedly represents. The GOP understands that, which is why they avoid servility, appeasement, weakness, cowardice, crawling, bootlicking, etc. even when they openly collude with their soullmates in the DLC.
Frankly, I think Gephardt is going to do better than anyone might think. Don't ask me why -- it's just a feeling I have.
Streaker
Those union people who bussed in from the national will help him.
Interesting that the locals seem to go for Dean. Cross grain from the nationals.
I’m looking for Gephardt and Kerry to take the top 2 places in Iowa (in either order) and for Kerry and Clark (likely in that order) to take the top 2 places in New Hampshire. -- MinnieB9
Whaaa...? After Dean takes first, do you mean? Or after Dean is first taken off to Gitmo by a team of Special Forces operatives?
Gep might squeak out a win in IA, but only if the other Dem candidates throw him their caucus votes in an attempt to slow down Dean.
I think I'll just stick with a candidate who's not going to get his ass handed to him on a platter. The three stooges do not get another pass - they had their chance in Congress, they helped run the Democratic party into the ground, we owe them nothing. Edwards and Kucinich get a pass because Edwards is still a neophyte, and Kucinich stood up to the Republicans. Kerry, Gephardt and Lieberman need to take a powder. They are bad, bad, bad, for the Democratic party.
err: I’m looking for Gephardt and Kerry to take the top 2 places in Iowa (in either order) and for Kerry and Clark (likely in that order) to take the top 2 places in New Hampshire.
*boggle*
dude, what are you smoking? the first is in the realm of possibility. the second is totally bonkers.
Remember, it's Ignore the Brownshirts Year...
I had a pretty good opinion of Kerry going into his campaign, but after watching him run, and discovering his astonishing abscence of character, judgement, spine, or wisdom, I think he is one of the biggest assholes in the Democratic party, right up there with Holy Joe Lieberman, Regular Guy Edwards, and professional compromiser of ideals and values Gephardt.
Reason 1: When he told Dem activists to get over the stolen election. Ignoring the greatest theft of democracy our nation has ever been the victim of does not make you an appealing Dem candidate. -- joker
This was the moment when I went cold on Kerry. I remember watching him kind of laugh as he told some media whore that we all needed to move on, and I swear I got so angry my head almost burst into flame right there in front of the television.
You know what? I hear that Angry Dem / Bush Hater shit coming from the media lapdogs and I just think, "Yeah! Sign me up! And can I get a secret decoder ring too?" I'm thinking Kerry hasn't felt a proper, righteous rage since he was protesting Vietnam.
Kerry = Dukakis
but John Kerry was supposed to be the nominee!...
I just can't believe you all take this so seriously - it's f*cking New Hampshire, for god's sake. A Red State without an income or sales tax, a legislature so huge it can't get a thing done, and a lousy school system. I live 40 miles from the border, and I dread driving through the place to get to the rest of the US. It's 95% white (yes, we Indians are once again just about the largest minority group), has all of 4 or is it 5 electoral votes and represents America just about as much as....Vermont! The best thing which could happen is for us Abenakis to take over our the whole damn place (it is our ancestral homeland). But then, Dean wouldn't even be allowed in the state, let alone on the ballot.
New Hampshire should get as much attention as Maine, which has it's own caucus on Feb 8th (not that anyone notices.) It's absolutely riduculous that California is utterly ignored, while you all watch the daily ARG poll out of the Granite State.
Jesus, how long can one guy keep losing a point a day? (I guess for about two more weeks.)
So much for his rally.
It will be interesting to see what he does next, seeing how the further he drops, the more whacko he acts.
I swear I got so angry my head almost burst into flame right there in front of the television.
Now that was a scary visual. I hope you're keeping a bucket ready for the election season. Wouldn't want you to turn into a human match.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp...-
2003Dec27.html
Dana Milbanks article about a few things, but the first one is the one that's pertinent. It goes along with the picture to the right, about a kid's T-shirt. It's funny to say the least.
I wonder what Clark has to say about gun control?
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Wonder no longer. Clark says if you want to use an assault weapon, join the Army! Howard Dean says if you want to use an assault weapon, go buy one in a state that allows them.
Kerry would have been great 100 years ago.
Warning: assholes who claim to be Clark supporters bashing Dean, or Dean supporters bashing Clark, are more likely to be Bush supporters, especially if their attacks seem particularly destructive. The vast majority of both Clark and Dean supporters have as their highest priority getting Bush out of office; for many Dean supporters in particular, Clark is their second choice and vice versa.
Bullshit. That's a very valid criticism of Dean. Uhhh... gee. Just because they're an exception doesn't mean they're a Bush supporter in disguise either. Stifling dissent, and paranoia does not become liberals too well. Leave that for the loony Right, will ya?
I'm a Dean supporter, yada yada, and Clark's my second choice.
W-w-w-w-wait a minute. I don't get it. Dean's numbers increased by only 1% over that whole polling period. It showed him going from 37% to 37% to 37% to 37% to 37% to 38%. How can that be? I was under the impression that Dean was actually outpacing the birth rate in NH. Didn't I see a projection of future generations for Dean that showed him beating all unnamed opponents from all parties combined? And why do they keep talking about the New Hampshire Primary like they're actually going to go on with it? Didn't they call it off yet? What's the point? Dean won already. Geez.
"With any luck Kerry will finish third in N.H., drop out, and stop trying to destroy Dean. What an asshole."
From the looks of things, Dean will implode all by himself long before anyone has even tried to destroy him. Unelectable shithead.
Former "let down" supporter my ass.. you're an angry white male Deani-ass.. which is honestly only a Texas two step from being a freeper repuke Atrios.. Kerry is the candidate to beat Bush. Dean is another Nader out to kill the democratic party via republican pocket lining
you're an angry white male Deani-ass..
Ah, yes, the tried and true art of telling someone what they are. Always effective.
Anyway, if Kerry gets the nomination (looking a bit less likely now) I'll vote for him.
Same with Edwards. Dean. All the others, except Lieberman and possibly Gephardt.
Kerry has all the right tools. He is the most qualified to be president. However, he has run such an inept campaign that he's flailing about. His verbal attacks against Dean are merely the acts of a desperate man.
I can understand what Atrios is feeling because early on, Kerry was my choice.
Mary - Look up "waffle" in the dictionary and you'll find a subnote that says: See Kerry; Irag.
At least he's got some very good-looking daughters (Times Sunday Magazine, 1/3/04)
Mary - Look up "waffle" in the dictionary and you'll find a subnote that says: See Kerry; Irag.
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You forgot the first entry
See Kerry Kyoto.
Agree with Adam442 and Atrios.
Tell Chomsky's Martian just curriculum vitae, without any campaign news, and he'd bet money on wealthy, experienced, veteran Kerry. Kerry must be a fantastically stupid man to have screwed up so badly and to have become so desperate and nasty.
We've lost a lot of respect for him and the voters seem to have also.
Kerry recently said about Dean, "I mean, if you don't know that Saddam Hussein is guilty and you think he has to have a jury trial...I think those will raise serious doubts in the minds of Americans"
What a pathetic pander. For godssakes we gave the Nazis trials after WWII and even Bush is giving Saddam a trial!
Stow it John, we're not impressed with your posturing. You were tough in Vietnam but you've grown soft in Washington.
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