I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Hey Atrios, It is a Nedra Pickler Day again!!!!
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news...l_pr/
dean_clark
Dean Sees Clark As Chief Democrat Rival
1 hour, 1 minute ago
By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer
CONCORD, N.H. - Howard Dean (news - web sites) has acknowledged Wesley Clark (news - web sites)'s momentum in the Democratic presidential race and singled him out as a chief rival for the nomination.
A CNN-USA Today-Gallup poll last week put Clark, a retired Army general, in a statistical tie nationally with Dean, a former Vermont governor, when the margin of error was taken into account. And Clark is the only Democratic candidate to come close to Dean's fund-raising in the last quarter — more than $14 million for Dean and more than $10 million for Clark, according to their campaigns.
Clark is not expected to overcome Dean in the first two key nominating contests — Clark is not competing in Iowa and is trailing Dean by double-digits in New Hampshire polls. But Clark could be a strong contender when the race moves to other parts of the country.
more...
*yawn* please distinguish the DNC from the DLC please might help with donations if people realize they're not giving to Al Frum, or whatever his name is.
Just as a reminder: Bush raised $1 million at a $2,000 per plate fundraiser in Florida yesterday.
That's whose interests the GOP represents.
Fuck the DNC!
Fuck Terry M.
I'll donate to Dean.
Why should I give my money to the RUBBERSTAMP Democrats?
Sorry Atrios, I appreciate your sentiments but the DNC is not getting a penny from me until they leash Carville's (a spokesman for the DNC)rabid attacks against Dean. And I've had the pleasure to tell them such when they call me and email me.
I'd also appreciate a little pro-active leadership from them, say, advocating for voter-verified paper ballots on the vulnerable electronic voting machines for starters?
Why should I give my money to the RUBBERSTAMP Democrats?
Because they'll take back the House and the Senate.
DNC = Democratic National Committee. This is the Democratic Party. Give money to them if you want to win some House and Senate seats.
DLC = Democratic Leadership Council. Lieberman, et al.
I'll give money directly to Dem congresspeople before I give money to the DNC.
When the DNC stops bashing it's frontrunner, and grows some pro-active spine and demonstrates leadership I'll consider giving them my money. Until then, every penny goes to Howard Dean.
McAuliffe and his cronies need to be frog-marched out of DNC headquarters. They have led the Democrats to be the party of institutionalized complacency. I do not blame them when a candidate loses, but I most definitely blame them when they do not even attempt a show of support. I will only donate directly to candidates until there is new DNC leadership.
I'm all for giving to individual candidates, but it isn't enough. There needs to be a national party and the DNC is it.
People too often confuse the DNC with the House democrats, or the Senate democrats, or the DLC, or whatever. it isn't one organization.
You want them to be more effective? They need more money. they don't have squat.
Kos has raised $38K or so. I've raised $15K. If both of us bring that up to $100K by the convention we'll be playing with the big boys, fundraising wise. Then maybe they'll listen.
AnneW - you took the words right out of my mouth. I donated to the DNC a few months ago when I got a letter "from" Carville. First time I'd ever donated and I did it BECAUSE the Dean campaign had gotten me involved beyond voting and bitching.
So, of course I just got another one asking for more money, again "from" Carville. Uh, I don't think so.
Pretty ironic that Carville thinks Dean has had a "political lobotomy." Seems to me he's had one too if he thinks he can say that kind of stuff about ANY Dem candidate and then turn around and shill for the DNC.
(NOTE: constructive criticism is fine. But what he has said crossed the line. And I'd say that no matter WHICH Dem candidate got trashed.)
You'd think he'd be "brilliant" enough to figure out that it's crap like this that add to Dem divisiveness.
Sheez.
eileen from OH
In addition to wanting them to be more effective, I want Carville to stop trashing Dean at every opportunity and then emailing me on behalf of the DNC and asking for money! I will not reward that kind of behavior.
I will only donate directly to candidates until there is new DNC leadership.
So you won't donate to the actual Democratic Party until then? Mmmkay...I guess you have principles you stand on but this seems a little naive and short-sighted to me. But whatever...
Atrios,
I'm sure Terry will call. What's your phone number again?
Michael
Carville's (Begala's, too, for that matter) constant attacks on Dean trouble me, too. Carville's kind of Democrat is Zell Miller.
Lat week, I told the caller from the DNC that I wouldn't donate until they stopped bashing Dean. But I also told her to call me back in a month.
Yay. I'm now a "Sustainer." That was super-easy, it took about one minute and you can choose how much you give to the DNC each month.
One down 24, to go...
We live paycheck to paycheck and I give whatever I can to Dean. Lately I've given to Clark as well. I won't give a dime to the DNC until I see them working for it. I want to see McAuliffe out there pointing out what's wrong with the system as often as I see that lying sack Gillespie whining about how wronged the GOP has been. And where's the outrage about electronic voting? There's no way that I'm pouring what little I have down a black hole of confusion and cowardice, which is how I see the Dems today.
I'm more than a tepid Dean supporter. There are other candidates I like, but none so far as much as Dean. If you guys don't donate to the DNC because your guy is facing criticism from inside the party, I think that's short sighted. The only way you change the system is by having someone who's on your side, on the inside (eg, Atrios, Kos, etc).
If Dean can't stand up to the pressure from the Dem primary, do you think he'll be able to stand up to the GOP slime machine come the national election? If the front-runner was Gephardt, Kerry, Lieberman it wouldn't be any different. If these guys can't take the criticism from inside their own party and come out on top, how in the world would that candidate ever beat Bush?
By not donating to the DNC you deprive small House race campaigns of DNC support because the funding isn't there. That means that the rethugs capture more congressional seats and the dems really do end up in the wilderness. Not the America I want to live in.
From KOS:
James Carville Blasts Gore
by Rob
Fri Dec 12th, 2003 at 01:51:01 GMT
NewsMax reports that James Carville, former Clinton campaign manager and legendary Democratic strategist, strongly denounced Al Gore's endosement of Howard Dean on the Don Imus radio show on Thursday. Carville described Gore as looking like a "corpse" and predicted the Dean campaign was "doomed" to failure. Carville's statements were some of the strongest yet from Democratic insiders angry with the Gore endorsement. Carville managed the campaign of Gore's former boss Bill Clinton which was one of the biggest political upsets in history when he defeated Bush Sr. in 1992.
"It was the perfect picture of a doctor and a corpse standing there...I don't think Al Gore should even get in the same ring with Bill Clinton when it comes to trying to impress black voters"
Donate to the DNC - yeah, good one.
Since when has it been the DNC's role to trash the frontrunner Quixote? And then to have the gall and come and ask his supporters to give them money?
The primary candidates can trash each other if that's their style, but I'm not going to fund anyone who is trashing my candidate. It just shows how clueless, out of touch, and even insulting the DNC is to it's base.
If Dean wins the nomination, Trippi has already assured us that Dean's first request will be for the newly energized base to flood targeted Dem congresspeople with donations so that we can also win back the House and Senate.
As far as I'm concerned, Dean is the de facto leader of the Democratic Party as demonstrated by his strong opposition leadership that the DNC can't even dream about, and his ability to energize the base beyond the vision and abilities of the current DNC.
When Terry calls you, tell him how much we want to love him and his organization, but how hard he's making it for us to do so.
A.
Word, Quixote.
I give $20 per mo. to Dean and $10 to the DNC which I'll up next month to $20 too.
About Carville....James is making himself irrelevent very quickly to people like me. He used to be one of my heroes but no more. He's too much of a Beltway Boy now. Too dependent on the insiders.
Have to agree with the No-Wayers here. Why should we help the DNC support the Liebermans and Gephardts and Daschles of the party in their quest to placate Bush to death, when Dean and Clarke seem to be actually using your money to..well, y'know...like...OPPOSE him, or something....
Again, I don't mind criticism re: Dean. I actually thought Carville was right on about "the glory of the unspoken word", but he's crossed the line from criticism to bashing. And I am so sick of the circular firing squad stuff. Of all people, he ought to know better.
I only have so much to give and I'll give it to Dean and my local candidates right now. I'm not saying I won't ever again donate to the DNC. But you make choices about where you can give. Carville made it real easy.
eileen from OH
I have to admit I've been stunned by carville and begala's behavior. Passing of the torch, I guess.
OT, but Recall II is on the way:
Betrayal, astonishment and anger erupted Friday at city halls around the Bay Area, where civic leaders were stunned by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's plan to take money out of coffers that he had just replenished.
"For the state to dip their hand into our pocket when they've acted irresponsibly -- it's immoral and unethical,'' said Lafayette City Manager Steve Falk, who already balanced his budget by closing town offices until noon and laying off the sole code enforcement officer and morning receptionist. "Why should local government suffer when the state can't balance its own budget? We're not panicked, but we're certainly circling the wagons and doing what we can to defend our interests.''
Schwarzenegger's budget calls for shifting $183 million in property taxes from cities and $135 million from their redevelopment agencies to help close the state's $15 billion deficit. The proposal comes less than a month after the governor used emergency powers to restore $2.6 billion in vehicle-license fees that cities lost when he vetoed the unpopular tax hike.
"I feel like (Schwarzenegger's) giving us money with one hand and taking it back with another,'' said Mayor Jim Vreeland of Pacifica, which had earlier looked at closing one of two fire stations and laying off nine firefighters. "Don't put us in a financial situation where we're getting rid of public safety employees because the Legislature can't balance a budget. It's wrong, it needs to stop, and you're going to hear a lot of outcry as they go down this path and keep passing the buck further and further down the line. The buck needs to stop at the top, in Sacramento.''
Even before the state started eyeing their tax money, cities throughout California slashed spending last summer because of the poor economy -- laying off workers, cutting back on park maintenance, raising fees and putting off building new libraries or community centers. Some particularly hard-hit cities, including Richmond and Fremont, have closed fire stations on a rotating basis despite public outcries that residents' safety could be jeopardized by longer response times to emergencies.
San Jose Mayor Ron Gonzales accused the governor Friday of pulling "a bait and switch" on cities by giving them money to make up for the vehicle fees, and then trying to take property taxes.
"Just last month I stood with the governor and police officers and firefighters on a stage in Sacramento where he said that he was putting money back in one of our pockets to pay for police stations and fire stations,'' said Gonzales, whose city would lose up to $20 million in property and redevelopment taxes under the governor's plan, on top of an existing $85 million deficit. "Now he's taking money out of the other pocket.
...and, yes, obviously people who don't respond to this fundraising call have no need to explain themselves (though feel free if you wish). And, people who live paycheck to paycheck or worse shouldn't feel guilty about having enough money to give, etc.
Some people have excess cash, some don't.
I'll give to the DNC the day Terry McAuliffe walks out the door.
you've already donated enough so that Terry Mac owes me a phone call...
Shouldn't you be holding off on soliciting more donations until Terry actually calls? And letting him know that?
Has he called Kos? Maybe you could start playing a little hardball...
You know what I'm most angry about, and you never hear this in the SCLM. The fact that not one of these three bozos running, Gephardt, Kerry, or Edwards stood up in 2000 re. the SC decision in Bushit vs. Gore and said "this is wrong." Not one. They didn't even need to do it to defend Al Gore. They needed to do it to defend me and the other voters who gave him our support. But noooooo, it would have been toooooo politically costly for one of those so-called heroes to say anything. I will always remember that. But I don't want the party to go broke just because the current leaders are spineless. I want to make sure the money's there when Howard gets to 1600. I call it paying it forward.
he did call Kos. I didn't mean he's not living up to the agreement. I don't even think they have my phone number.
I'd rather have a chat after the primaries.
Donation made as instructed above. Sure, the DNC ain't perfect, but these are dire times.
I'll give to the DNC when Joe Trippi becomes chairamn.
I donated once to the DNC because Dean encouraged us to get involved locally. Then the DNC trashes the guy I like and, thus, my opinion.
As for Carville, I believe he and Clinton (who has often praised Bush both before and AFTER the war) have joined the beltway boys A-list and in order to keep harmony at home with wife Mary Matalin, Carville is taking a more right-wing attitude.
Nope, no money. There is a local candidate who will struggle to run against the republican Mark Kennedy here in MN. she is going to need help. Along with Dean and Moveon.org, I will donate time and energy to her.
To donate to the DNC is to donate money to Carville to trash Dean. Not with my money.
I'm torn about whether it's right to give the DNC money. I get their solicitations, too, and I've withheld mainly because I think they're so utterly ineffective. I hadn't really realized that Carville was actually part of the DNC or that his attacks on Dean were quite as bad as they are, so that's another strike against them.
On the other hand, as a couple of posters have pointed out, not giving hurts Dem chances at election time. What to do?
I give to Dean. I'm one of the thousands who have never given before to any political candidate, and Terry M could convince me to start giving to the DNC, but he just hasn't.
You know what is interesting Atrios, is that you and Kos already are being listened to by the Dean folk (both have been featured on the blog), and that's without being fundraisers for them.
But with the DNC, they won't listen to you/us unless we raise big bucks for them? Hmmm...
The DNC has been doing a pretty good job of making themselves irrelevant on their own, but my strategy is to back their obvious successor, Dean/Trippi. The DNC will either become more responsive or will be eventually replaced.
Maybe they will listen better when they recognize Dean's dominance?
If Dean wins the nomination, and you and/or Kos have a fundraising for him(us) I will gladly chip in. They already listen to you, but being big fundraisers will only help make you/us bigger players.
Right after the holidays is not the best time to ask for donations, heh. Tapped out as I am, I did send a few more bucks to Clark yesterday. He's got a "$2million to New Hampshire" challenge going.
So, Job is Dean's favorite New Testament book, huh? Oh lord, help the democratic party...
AnneW-
I don't think the DNC is a worthless organization that should be toppled. There is money in the DNC. Lots of money. Sure, it would be great to capture the anger of our base and direct to congressional races. But why should we limit ourselves in doing it?
I guess what I'm getting at is that I'd rather have Howard Dean as the nominee, while Trippi directs funds to the congressional races that the Dean campaign believes are important, while at the same time allowing the DNC to use its resources to accomplish the same goal. If the DNC trashes Howard after he's gotten the nomination I will rescind everything I've written in this post. But like I said earlier, as it goes right now I think the internal sniping makes Dean a much stronger candidate. After all he is running as the outsider.
As far as the candidates for those congressional races go, the Dean campaign isn't going to have any influence this year on what type of candidate is selected as the Democratic representative. That will only come when Howard is elected prez at the end of the year because that sort of power comes with influence.
But in the meantime it makes sense to me to give money to the establishment so that at least we have a chance at a Democratic majority once again...even if some of those are Dem in name only. Then we can build from there. It really beats having a Republican majority.
Oh, and James Carville is full of shit.
Carville, Begala, MacAuliffe et al have not kept their eyes on the prize. There is a petty political war going on for the "soul" of the democratic party. I guess they felt that the rape of 2000 and the pounding in 2002 were acceptable. I'm involved exactly because I don't think they were OK and I'm not going to give money to people who want to stay the course of taking the DNC straight to oblivion.
I'm waiting til after the caucuses, although I've given to moveon.org this year. I like Dean's campaign a great deal, think he's got what it takes to win the white house, but probably won't feel utterly loyal until after he's got the nomination locked up. I just have a soft spot for Edwards and even though he's not going to win, it makes it hard to support someone else fully.
After the caucuses and NH, I'll be giving money to Dean unless something weird happens. I also want to give directly to Richard Morrison, running against Tom DeLay.
I'll think about DNC, Atrios. You make a good point about being on the inside, but on the other hand, shouldn't they be representing us just a little tiny bit with or without our $$ ? I want to see a little attitude change and I want to see it sooner than later.
Why should I give my money to the RUBBERSTAMP Democrats?
Because they'll take back the House and the Senate.
Old Hat
HAHAHA!
That is a good one.
Right now giving money to rubberstamp Democrats is like giving money to the RNC.
You may as mail your donations directly to Gillespie.
Quixote, Dean as candidate has already demonstrated his influence in the Democratic congressional race by having his supporters give Iowa's congressman Boswell more than $50,000.
At the convention, if Dean is the nominee, he will rally the Dem base to funnel money into the coffers of Dems in tight congressional 2004 races.
mary,
I know the story of Job well, but didn't know which half of the bible it was in. Is that really your criterion for leadership?
One other quick thought. I just saw Masked and Anonymous the other night which is this movie that Bob Dylan co-wrote and starred in. It's about what the US would look like if it fell into third-world banana republic status. There's a scene where Dylan is singing this song and John Goodman's character says something like, "This song is different because it's not about women, or booze. He's singing about manipulating evil forces to do good." Is the DNC evil? No, probably not evil. But I think they can be manipulated to do something worthwhile.
I'll give my donation to the DNC when Dean is in and Terry Mac is out, not before!
Quixote, you think the DNC can be 'manipulated' to do something worthwhile by giving them money. I think they can be 'manipulated' into being relevant/worthwhile by being challenged by a more dominant force, ie, Us via Dean.
I got a letter, supposedly from my local Democratic office, asking for a donation. Make the check payable to the DNC, it said, and send it off to Washington. Now frankly, I WOULD have given money to my local Dems, just because they are faceless and I'd like to see them become visible. But to send money off to Washington, when (as has been said above) they are trashing Dean and didn't do a thing about 2000 or standing up to the unelected fraud, well, that was just too much. I sent them a little note, without a check, telling them exactly that.
At the convention, if Dean is the nominee, he will rally the Dem base to funnel money into the coffers of Dems in tight congressional 2004 races.
AnneW
Doesn't Dean have aplan to get 20+ Democrats elected to the house?
And for Carville, I knew he went to the drakside when I heard he was aiding the Chavez reforendum.
Begala still hasn't apologized for his attacks on McKinney.
There's a fallacy here: Carville=DNC. No, Carville is just one member & is speaking his own mind. The DNC is the national umbrella group that distributes aid to Democrats running for House & Senate seats, & aids the presidential candidate in the national election. If we are going to win back back the Senate or the House, we need to infuse these races with money through the DNC now (Winter & Spring). By the time a clear Democratic nominee emerges (earliest March), it will be late. Any Democratic presidential nominee will be entirely absorbed on his campaign for at least the first 2 months.
Even if imperfect & it has many flaws, the DNC is the only national party organization that is systematically involved in winning Congressional/Senate races. Not to support it is to cut off our nose to spite our face.
AnneW-
Yes, exactly. But I guess I don't see it as one or the other. Now doesn't seem to be the time to abandon the DNC. If Dean wins the nomination, let alone the presidency, I think a lot of things are going to change. Dean will officially be the nominee and no matter what the DNC says, he will have tons of influence. Bill Clinton and his centrism are popular now because his style is reminiscent of the last time the dems had any power. It's those elements that are grasping to retain what little influence they still have. While they're centrism (read "republicanism") is dying, I think we ought to use the influence they have left. I mean, this conversation that we're having is evidence that the atmosphere is already changing. But I think it's going to happen gradually...and to try to kill off a very organized, if corrupt, organization that pushes at least some semblance of our progressive values doesn't seem to be the wise thing to do.
OT:
http://www.ricksteves.com/news/
0...ocents_text.htm
Carter, You may have not received the emails from Carville (photo and all) on behalf of the DNC asking for money. Meanwhile he is not just criticizing Dean, he is doing his 'ragin cajun' trashing of our frontrunner, Dean. Begala is not much better.
I hear the argument as to why the DNC needs to be funded now. I just can't until they show a smidgen of love towards the frontrunner, or at least stop sabotaging him! Guess they will just have to go to their corporate friends until they get the base on board.
Carter,
Carville may be just 1 member of the DNC speaking his mind, as you say, but c'mon - who in the DNC has come to Dean's defense?
I saw this in some article last week, and I think it sums up the situation: if Dems had as energized to defeat Bush as they have been to beat Dean, we all woulnd't be in this mess.
Nope, no $$ from me until I see some movement from the DNC to close ranks.
This is appalling.
After following this blog for a while, I noticed that some independents had been attacking the DNC/DLc/Terry M/Clintonistas/Begala/Carville months ago.
They were mainly abused and vilified for espousing their opinions.
With the clear majority opinion of all mentioned showing today just how disgusted most are, apologies are due.
So, a big thank you to all the Independents/Greens/Naderites who had the forsight to see this months ago.
And a big raspberry to those who didn't have the intelligence or common sense to relaize the truth. Partisan parrots that you are.
The Repubs have so much more money than us, its the major factor in their winning the presidency, House & Senate. Any races we've won, the Democratic candidate has managed to financially stay competitive with them (exs. Cantwell in Washington, Edwards in N. Carolina, Clinton in NY, Gov. Rendell in Pa.). Unfortunately, that's the way things presently are.
Its a pipe dream to believe Dean is going to come close to Dubya in money or his supporters, by themselves, are going to make the difference financially in Congressional races. Not to help the DNC, if one can afford to contribute, is to have a certain level of comfort with keeping Delay in the House leadership & Frisk in the Senate leaderhip.
I think Carville has been hanging around Mary Matalin too long. God knows what she's been whispering in his ear at night after he falls asleep. He's been completely brainwashed into a Stepford Husband. Yes dear. What a disgrace. The gall of the guy trashing Gore and Dean...
Get used to it Carville..Dean's the man...and Hillary will NOT get the nomination in 2008 so you might as well join up with the Republicans and end the family feud.
Dean alone can't no. But, once some of the $$ currently flowing to other Dem candidates gets put behind 1 guy (the eventual nominee, Clark/Dean), then that gap narrows considerably.
Even now, if you add up all the 9 Dem's funds, the Bush lead isn't quite so formidable.
AND it is coming, predominantly anyway, from the roots.
Given, however, that the Repug's ultimately will raise more money, it is so critical to stop this petty, gotcha crap. It belittles the entire party, feeds into the "liberal rage" theme too easily, and will keep our side of the aisle a house divided.
Soros aside, Dems don't have the financial clout to compete w/Bush. But we do have a base that could be mobilized, energized and for the first time in a long time, activated.
If you can't beat Dean and/or Clark on the basis of your personna and ideas, guys, give it up and go home.
For the good of the country & our future. That's what's at stake here. Nothing less.
"For the good of the country & our future. That's what's at stake here. Nothing less."
So, for the good of our country and party, when is McAuliffe going to resign?
Anyone wish to venture a guess at this, if Dean wins the presidency how much support can he expect from the Democrats?
I would bet that he has just as hard a struggle with his own party in putting his policies in place as he does with the Republicans.
You will not see the likes of Hillary supporting Dean the way she did with Bush.
Soros aside, Dems don't have the financial clout to compete w/Bush. But we do have a base that could be mobilized, energized and for the first time in a long time, activated.
dan
Hmm, Bush is the lone candidate, Democrats have nine.
What is the total from ALL nine?
Not going to do it.
I've been phone contacted several times.
Always give them the standard...
"I’m a significant contributor to the Howard Dean campaign. When the nominee is selected... and the DNC gets behind their candidate... I might contribute."
The Repubs have so much more money than us, its the major factor in their winning the presidency, House & Senate. Any races we've won, the Democratic candidate has managed to financially stay competitive with them (exs. Cantwell in Washington, Edwards in N. Carolina, Clinton in NY, Gov. Rendell in Pa.). Unfortunately, that's the way things presently are.
Carter
That is bullshit. Mainly Dems have a weak message. Or elections were stolen.
Strong cases can be made for both positions.
In this case money had very little to do with it.
AnneW....Yea, I've got the personal letter from Carville also. But they're using him as a poster boy because he's so well known through Crossfire & TV news chatter programs. Carville is trashing Dean on his own time & he does have a big mouth. I like his statements but not on Dean. If you're on this post regularly perhaps you've noticed I feel very strongly that Democrats should not bash other Democrats in trying to win a nomination. This is doubly true in these perilious times when the stakes are so huge.
The DNC is bound not to take a position till the nominee is picked. We need to win the House or Senate. That's why I think its worthwhile to financially support the DNC.
How's the cat herding going, Atrios?
Carter,
The DNC has already taken a position - ABD (anybody but dean). No press conferences to announce it, but it's clear what's happening.
Dunno, maybe Harkin's endorsement will help. He's about as DNC as they get. But I doubt it.
No, the DNC & the DLC both have their panties in a bunch that Dean took them to task for appeasing W. Ergo, Dean must be taught a lesson.
Case closed. DNC has placed its collective ego before the good of the party, before the values it represents, and ultimately before the needs of the constituents it claims to represent.
Well, I say screw them - my $$'s going to Dean and Clark. May their rising tide lift all our boats.
Let's get real and face the facts. The Democratic party is in the middle of a civil war. It's Dean versus the rest. I think one of the reasons Dean has been picking up strong support is precisely because he criticized the old wing Clintonistas, Daschles, Gephardts, Liebermans, et al.
Dean is a Plain Speaking Harry Truman kind of guy...and he should continue with his Give em Hell campaign all the way to the White House. If old line Democrats don't support him...a new, younger generation of NEW DEMOCRATS will. Get used to it.
Carter - In light of Carville's recklessness, then why would the DNC insist on using him to raise money? In light of the continued loss of House seats, in light of the disconnected electorate that Dean's campaign has energized, in light of McAuliffe's inability to stand up to Ed Gillespie - in light of the great silence that has come from the DNC in 2000 and 2002 - my question is: How long do we have to wait for these guys to wake up? And, until they make some kind of meaningful public show of, say, actually running an opposition to Republicans, why should they get any money?
That being said, I think that once a candidate is selected, people will be more willing to support them, even if the ineffective McAuliffe is still in charge.
Screw the DNC ~ it is more like the jellyroll of the party. If they'd stop treating voters like things to be manipulated and start standing up for liberal values, I might change my mind.
I'm a writer (read: not rich) and I gave to the DNC, and several of the Dem candidates. I'll continue to give to Dean, Clark, and Edwards (favorite son and all that) and will also give to the party even though I find myself in emotional accord with Anonymous, a position that tells me I must be wrong and I must immediately write a huge check to the DNC.
So when Dean speaks his mind, he's Harry Truman, but when Carville does, he's Satan PLUS Stalin.
Give me a break.
Meanwhile, here's a reality check on the DNC, DLC, Dem Congressional leadership, et al.:
http://
www.washingtonmonthly.com...confessore.html
Let me frame the distinction.
Dean is "Give 'em hell"
Carville is "Give 'em Zell"
When Terry calls, tell him he'd get a lot more donations if he would stop the Party's hammering of Howard Dean. (and I don't mean the other candidates) Until then, all my $ goes directly to Dean.
Carville is a pretty smart guy and certainly entitled to his opinions. Funny how when your guy runs his mouth, he's "a straight-shooter," but the same standard doesn't apply to others. Just because he doesn't like your guy doesn't mean you have to attack him like little children here...
Fact is, there are plenty of folks nervous about Dean, myself included. Perhaps you should worry about ways to make those folks less nervous.
Atrios wrote: I'm all for giving to individual candidates, but it isn't enough. There needs to be a national party and the DNC is it.
If Democrats run the spectrum from Zell Miller and Joe Lieberman on the right to Kucinich on the left, then in what sense can we really call this a party? What does the name Democrat mean anymore?
Nick - It's really simple. We're waiting for some positive action, some sign of actual life from the DNC. Except for Carville, the silence is deafening. Carville is not running, so I find it disturbing that he would attack any Democratic candidate. Save it for Bush.
Nick,
How does the DNC benefit from taking down its front-runner? How does that help the cause of beating Bush in November?
Dean is popular among Democrats across the country because folks are frustrated with the impotentence displayed by this crop of Beltway politicians. They didn't support Gore in 2000, they rolled over and played dead to Bush, and allowed themselves to get caricatured as soft and timid in '02, costing us the midterm elections.
The party leadership needs to recognize that its not 1998 anymore. The glory days of McCauliffe, et al are 5 years behind them. Most rank'n'file Dems, I'm willing to bet, equate this bunch more with the myriad failures in the Bush era than with Clinton era success.
Oh, and btw, don't think for a minute that the DNC was so hot in the '90's either. They lost Congress to Gingrich (thanks, Geppie), and left Clinton out to dry, too timid to call that impeachment by its true name: attempted coup.
I'm sick of this facile bunch; out with the old!
Folks, if Begala and Carville are slamming Dean, then I'm more likely to think there's soemthing going on with Dean that they know of which we do not.
I don't like the other candidates bashing Dean because they're as flawed if not more so than they claim he is, but if Paul and James start attacking Dean then rather than take it personal you should step back and try to see what it is they're attacking, and why.
These two guys *made* Clinton. They are the guys who the GOP fear more than anyone else in this pathetic DEM party. They may have their flaws, but so far Dean has been less than perfect, and despite the bullshit attacks against him by the righty press and other candidates, if both Carville and Begala attack Dean then there might be something to it that those here are ignoring simply out of disgust with the party. I take Carville's and Begala's advice with greater confidence than I would anyone elses, so rather than just lump them in with Lieberman and Kerry, you might want to step back and try to figure out what it is they're attacking, and why. These two are not just too DEM/DNC/DLC whores here. These are the two people whose help in any candidate's campaign doubles or triples their chance for victory come Nov. They are the bane of the GOP. Don't treat them like you accuse them of treating Dean
MYOB'
.
Funny how when your guy runs his mouth, he's "a straight-shooter," but the same standard doesn't apply to others.
Perhaps someone can point out where Dean has made a "he's too crazy and 100% unelectable and I'll kill myself before I vote for him" statement, as Carville is doing nightly.
...there are plenty of folks nervous about Dean, myself included. Perhaps you should worry about ways to make those folks less nervous.
Perhaps these folks should get their heads out of their ass and keep their eyes on the prize. Few and far between are the Dean supporters who haven't stated, for the record, time and time again, they will support whoever the Dem nominee is. But all the losers trailing him seem incapable of "signing on the dotted line," to coin a phrase.
...if Begala and Carville are slamming Dean, then I'm more likely to think there's soemthing going on with Dean that they know of which we do not.
Like neither one's gonna have a cushy job in the Dean campaign or administration? You're probably right...
"Folks, if Begala and Carville are slamming Dean, then I'm more likely to think there's soemthing going on with Dean that they know of which we do not."
Great. Now we have become Republicans.
The irony is that while Mathew Gross, or another upper level Dean campaign person is monitoring this blog, listening to the base, Carville, Begala, McAuliffe,et al are prob. schmoozing on K St. listening to their moneybags.
Amen, AnneW.
And MYOB, CLINTON made Clinton, not Carville, and certainly not Begala. He is/was a rare breed. (A bit OT: Clinton's troubles and turmoil heading into that first NH primary remind me of what's happening to Dean now. Let history repeat itself!)
Look, no matter what, the DNC needs to be aware that their attack dogs are feeding 100% into the "Democrats and Liberals are angry, crazy and negative." Pundit by pundit, article
by article, the "truth" that our party is out of control is being created. Don't feed the beast - it's big enough already.
Also help here
And another thing - I just can't get past this one.
If this chorus of boo's from Democrats, now aimed at Dean, had been directed at Bush in 2000, he would not have been elected. Where was all this fire and energy then?!
I cannot forget & forgive so quickly how spinless this party's leadership has been, especially NOW, in the face of this maelstrom of negative 'gotcha' crap aimed at the hottest ticket our party's seen in a long time.
"It's because the establishment is pathetic, not powerful, that these people support Dean. "
FOR SALE: 1 Big Boat, will easily hold over half the American population. A bit rusty, but seaworthy - just needs a new coat of paint. NO RUDDER. Must supply own fuel.
Contact DNC if interested. Serious inquiries only, asking top dollar.
Right with you Dan. Why haven't the Dem leadership directed the same level of firey attacks at Bush that they have at the best thing to happen to our party in years? Something is seriously wrong, and it ain't with Dean!
I agree wholeheartedly with MYOB. I'm obviously don't know anything but this business with Dean's sealed records and his little stint at Planned Parenthood concerns me.
And what the heck did Dean mean when he said "“We [don't] want anything embarrassing appearing in the papers at a critical time in any future endeavor.” I have a hard time believing that was just a "joke" about his sealed records.
The main difference between the DNC and the RNC is as follows:
Contributers to the RNC know that all their candidates (or at least 98%) agree on the issues important to them (lower tax rates for the wealthy). Most RNC contributions are from high rollers.
The dems need to ask for more support from rank and file, who are not necessarily high rollers. The issues important to me are progressive taxation and fiscal discipline, and a cooperative foreign policy including opposition to the Iraq war.
A very large percentage of the DNC candidates disagree with me on either one or both of my major issues. Why would I give them money?
Until the party is disciplined and has a disciplined structure and enforces it, I am not giving them a dime.
why is giving to the DNC in order to take back the congress a better idea than giving to moveon or a local candidate (or coordinate with the dean campaign, for that matter)? the DNC can't credibly argue that they have the superior poitical skills to spend the money effectively (nice job losing seats in an off-year election, assholes). they pile failure on top of capitulation and want me to finance it?
as has been said more eloquently here, go fuck yourself, terry. when trippi's replaces you, i'll send a check to the DNC.
and of course the possesive after "trippi" was wrong. i blame clinton.
Sorry Atrios, but I too refuse to give a penny to a bunch of spineless pussies.
They didn't fight for Clinton during 8 years of non-stop assaults.
They didn't fight the election theft of 2000 and they aren't pushing for a paper trail to ward off the Diebold theft of 2004.
They didn't fight back as Monkeyboy lied his way into a totally unecessary war that has cost the lives of tens of thousands.
They've stood by as the Repugs gutted almost every enviromental law on the books.
They stand by as the treasury is looted by greedy politicians and their corporate masters.
etc, etc................
Fuck the DNC, I will give what I can afford to moveon and selected bloggers.
At least they have the balls to fight back.
MC
nope.
all my money is for dean, moveon.org and whoever they point me at. if they point me at the dnc then maybe i'll donate.
but i see the dnc as an obstacle to a dem victory in 2004. until they prove otherwise, they don't get my money (or it seems many others).
"...and a candidate for president of the United States is obligated to stand for the rule of law." - Howard Dean, 1/4/04, Iowa debate on bin Laden.
"I approve of the assination policy against Hamas by Israel." - Howard Dean, 1/9/04, Iowa press conference.
For the liberals here who can't quite comprehend the import of this, let me spell it out...
Nowhere in international law is the policy of assination or extrajudicial killing sanctioned.
Nowhere.
No matter what international statute you cite, this is illegal and what this falls under is the category of war crimes or crimes against humanity.
This man is a proponent of war crimes.
This cannot be refuted.
What liberals here need to ask themselves is this: "Exaclty how far am I willing to abandon any elementary principles for the sake of political gain?"
I gave 2,000 to Dean's campaign already and 1,000 to Clark and will give more to individual candidates as I see fit......NO money to Lieberman or any Democratic organization till they get some balls, principles AND replace Tom "enabler" Daschle as Minority Leader. PERIOD
Old Hat...the embarrassing material Dean was referring to was the possible disclosure of a gay person's name or other sensitive material of a personal nature. Besides..Dean said he was willing to put the matter in the hands of a judge and let the judge decide what could or shouldn't be made public. Of course the Republicans call that a copout. The only people "nervous" about Dean getting the nomination are Republicans and Democratic presidential rivals.
Elias, link please for that reference re Dean saying" "I approve of the assination policy against Hamas by Israel."
This is all I found on the topic, and it does not jibe with your assertion:
"Asked if he would oppose the Israeli policy of selectively killing leaders of Hamas and other Palestinian militant groups, Dean said, "I think no one likes to see violence of any kind."
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLIT...z.dean.mideast/
Old Hat...the embarrassing material Dean was referring to was the possible disclosure of a gay person's name or other sensitive material of a personal nature.
I doubt that half of his gubernatorial records all center on a gay person in the closet. "Sensitive material of a personal nature" is Clintonese. I hope you don't believe all the Dean campaign's propaganda.
Dean used to work at Planned Parenthood for three or four years, right? Rove's moles are sniffing around, believe me.
Anne...
I have no link.
I heard it myself yesterday on cspan from Deans mouth during his press conference in Iowa.
I immediately wrote it down.
I guess you can find the transcript somewhere...maybe CNN transcripts...
Anne...
He actually repeated himself. He actually said it twice...
I'm a writer (read: in my onw mind) and I ( masturbate ceaselessly) gave to the DNC, and several of the Dem candidates. Because at heart I support other losers like myself. I'll continue to give to Lieberman (favorite son and all that) and will also give to the party even though I find myself in emotional accord with Anonymous, a position that tells me I must be wrong ( for having these feelings about my dog) and I must immediately write a huge check to the DNC. Then masturbate again.
cosmic grappler
another reason the dnc's lame:
remember during whiteater/travelgate/who killed vince foster/monica/etc? remember how every time a republican came near a camera or microphone, the words scandal, criminal, impeachment or independent counsel came out?
well, folks, we have a criminal - a traitor even - in the upper echelons of the white house. a senior white house staffer UNDERMINED OUR NATIONAL SECURITY by outing a cia operative engaged in preventing the proliferation of wmd. why? to settle a cheap political score. blood's in the water, folks...
...but where's the noise on this? why aren't dem. leaders holding press conferences denouncing bush, cheney and the gang, taking them to task for not cooperating, dragging their feet, for not coming forward? why aren't they on the airwaves, screaming their bloody lungs out?
where's the outrage from our party?
show me some energy here, and maybe my purse-strings will loosen. i might even forgive the dean-bashing.
He said it long ago:
"In response, Dr. Dean said:
"Obviously I oppose terrorism. Obviously Hamas are terrorists. The reason I answered the way I did is because it was a way of saying the assassination policy against Hamas is justified.""
http://www.theleftcoaster.com/ar...ves/
000550.html
For working people, giving money to the Dems when they are all so Hell bent on raising taxes is like agreeing to a game of Russian roulette and paying for the bullets.
Are there any candidates/parties out there who are both opposed to the Bush/Neocon elective Iraq war and hyper-interventionist foreign policy but, who also don't want to make economic war on working folks?
I’ve heard about the couple dozen very
limited government type Republicans in congress who fit the bill on both counts but I'm asking about a presidential candidate.
Dean also said he would "strongly speak out against violence of any kind in the Middle East. That's what I mean by being even-handed." (More on violence)
"You must condemn all civilian killings, including any terrorist attacks," he said.
However, in retrospect, Dean said he should not have used the term "even-handed."
"I've since learned that that is a very sensitive word to use in certain communities, so perhaps I could have used a different euphemism," he said. "But the fact of the matter is, at the negotiating table, we have to have the trust of both sides."
Asked about the dismantling of Jewish settlements, Dean said that was an issue to be decided during negotiations between the two sides, although he said even the Israelis have conceded that some settlements will have to go.
Asked if he would oppose the Israeli policy of selectively killing leaders of Hamas and other Palestinian militant groups, Dean said, "I think no one likes to see violence of any kind."
But he also said that "there is a war going on in the Middle East, and members of Hamas are soldiers in that war, and, therefore, it seems to me that they are going to be casualties if they are going to make war."
Can't give any money to the DNC till after the convetnion at least...they hired Timoney (the guy who led the brutality against union members and senior citizens exercising their constitutional rights down in Fla. recently) to head up security at the convention in Boston. I can't in good conscience give any money to anyone if it might end up in that scumbags wallet...
I'll try to hold my nose and do what I have to in order to make sure Bush isn't elected (not re-elected, that would assume he'd been elected once),but I have to draw the line somewhere. Timoney being hired to run convention security makes the Dems look like just another party for the elites...
Mike Switzer
The Lone Nut
I'm already donating $20/month to Dean, plus misc. other amouts when I readlly get irritated.
But of course you're right. The national organization needs money, too. I signed on for $25/month as per your request.
Online fundraising through blogs is a great idea, especially for such an urgent election. I've started to put together the pieces for doing it for Dean. But of course, in the longrun, more $$ will be raised to beat Bush, than if one only solicits donations for one's personal favorite.
Also, even if the worst of all possible Democratic candiates wins the nomination, we still need to boot Bush.
Dean in Iowa - How can you not love this guy?
I think that people who are saying they agree with Carville re: Dean are missing the point (and using the opportunity to get into why they don't like Dean). Carville is a very influential voice for Dems. Carville is on tv as an influential voice for the Dems.. Carville, as an influential voice of the Dems, tries to raise money for the DNC. To try and do that, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME bashing a Dem candidate (and, again, ANY Dem candidate) is incredibly short-sighted and stoopid.
Try and get past whether you agree with him or not and imagine if he had blathered like this over a candidate YOU support.
I would find that just as unacceptable as I find his Dean-bashing (and it IS bashing. You can make the point, and criticize, without supplying sound bytes for the opposition.)
I mean, what's he going to do if Dean gets the nomination? How's he gonna help the DNC raise money for the general election? What's THAT letter gonna say - "gee, folks, I was just kidding?"
I just find it appalling that someone who is supposedly as politically astute as Carville is reputed to be wouldn't realize how overall Dem-defeatist this is.
eileen from OH
Timoney being hired to run convention security makes the Dems look like just another party for the elites...
Mike Switzer
The Lone Nut
Mike Switzer
Duh. They are the party of elites. Well elite wannabe's.
Look at Hillary her support of Bush and her recent bigotted joke about East Indians and Ghandi.
Hopefully some East Indian will make a joke about big assed big thighed women working at waitresses at Denny's.
Elias:
further than that. how far are you willing to go?
mary,
I know the story of Job well, but didn't know which half of the bible it was in. Is that really your criterion for leadership?
loser
No, no, knowing the books of the Bible isn't a criterion for leadership-- that's not the point. It'd just one more gaff, made while stereotyping southerners yet again.
Dean's statement regarding the book of Job was made right after he claimed to know a lot about the Bible. To many, many people, the second statement would imply that the first was a blatant, pandering lie. It's like saying "I know a lot about geography, and Australia is my favorite country in Europe."
My son is a student at the Univ. of Virginia, and he claims that while all of his friends in college support one or another of the democratic candidates, they all hate Dean. Dean has to stop sounding like he thinks everything south of the Mason-Dixon line is on another planet.
Mary, I live in western NC, and I can tell you that Dean is the most popular Dem candidate is this region by far, even more than Edwards. He seems to be playing fine to a lot of southerners.
'Chemical weapons' found in Iraq
This ought to bring out the trolls in droves.
There's one tiny point the headline leaves out though: The 36 120mm shells appeared to have been buried for at least 10 years, the army said.
What fine Democrats we have in this country.
ABB, people.
the 10 year old thing will be forgotten in a flash.
troll/repug talking points:
-see, he had wmd!
-if he had'em, he should've turned them over.
-he didn't though, which proves inspections were a stoopid idea
-which is why we invaded
-so, that's why we were right and why you coward liberals are unamerican traitors.
or something like that.
the fact that these weapons appear to be an afterthought and forgotten will mean little. i mean, remember bush in poland, claiming to have found a weapons cache?
What fine Democrats we have in this country.
ABB, people.
pie
Dipshit.
The transcript from http://blog.deanforamerica.com:
PAULA ZAHN: Final question for you, sir. Your candidate, governor dean, has made several references to -- about president bush having alleged advance knowledge of the 9/11 attacks from the saudis. Should someone who wants to be president be trading on rumors?
JOE TRIPPI: That's not what the governor said at all. In fact, you're trading on rumors when you keep saying that.
PAULA ZAHN: I haven't said it yet. I'm just repeating --
JOE TRIPPI: Yeah, you're repeating the rumor. Yeah, what happened was the governor said that when the president and the administration mislead people and the war, the American people start asking questions, there's these rumors out there, and we need to talk about them to shut them down because he didn't believe it. And he said that on the air in the interview.
PAULA ZAHN: But there was another interview on npr that has gotten a lot of attention. He basically said, you know, whether this can be proven or not, he suggested that the president had had advance knowledge of what might have fallen on 9/11.
JOE TRIPPI: No. The governor said he didn't believe that, and it was part of the problem. We have this right now with black box voting. You'll find across the country that there are people all over this nation who believe these paperless computer voting machines are a way that the bush administration will steal the election. Okay, what's not important here is whether that's a rumor or not. What's important here is that we shut that down, that we prove to people that there's no way that anybody -- that these paperless machines are going to rob people of their vote. Repeating that is not repeating that you believe it. I don't necessarily believe that those machines do that or not. But if we're going to have a democracy, we have to say so and air it out.
PAULA ZAHN: Let me just repeat exactly what came off the transcript of the npr radio show, and this is governor dean's remark, "the most interesting theory that i have heard so far, he responded, "is that he was warned ahead of time by the saudis."
JOE TRIPPI: And then can you keep reading, please?
PAULA ZAHN: Well, could go on for the next five minutes from the interview. And you're saying he didn't say that, I got it right here.
JOE TRIPPI: No, no, no, I said if you keep reading, he'll say he didn't believe that.
PAULA ZAHN: There is a point at which, but you were denying what he suggested.
JOE TRIPPI: You're forgetting that part, paula.
PAULA ZAHN: I'm not forgetting it. I just wanted to clarify that he had, in fact, repeated something and he did say later on...
JOE TRIPPI: Keep reading the interview, and we'll get to the part where he says he did not believe it.
PAULA ZAHN: No, I am not denying that, but i wanted to challenge your point...
JOE TRIPPI: That's not how you started the interview.
PAULA ZAHN: I think our audience has a pretty good sense
PAULA ZAHN: I think our audience has a pretty good sense now of what was said and what wasn't said. Joe trippi, thank you for your time.
http://www.alternet.org/story.ht...l?
StoryID=17470
snip>
Howard Dean: "Yes, there is a report which the president is suppressing evidence for, which is a thorough investigation of 9-11."
Diane Rehm: "Why do you think he is suppressing that report?
Howard Dean: "I don't know. There are many theories about it. The most interesting theory that I've heard so far – which is nothing more than a theory, it can't be proved – is that he was warned ahead of time by the Saudis. Now who knows what the real situation is? But the trouble is, by suppressing that kind of information, you lead to those kind of theories, whether they have any truth to them or not, and eventually, they get repeated as fact. So I think the president is taking a great risk by suppressing the key information that needs to go to the Kean Commission."
end snip>
Howard Dean holds a slight lead in Iowa with just a week to go before the state's Democratic presidential caucuses and is maintaining his dominant position in New Hampshire, campaign polls out Saturday found.
In Iowa, the former Vermont governor was at 30 percent, with Dick Gephardt at 23 percent and John Kerry at 18 percent, according to the Los Angeles Times poll of likely Iowa caucus goers. John Edwards, a North Carolina senator, was the only other candidate in double digits, at 11 percent.
Nice try, pretender.
A New Hampshire poll showed Dean holding a lead of about 20 points over his closest competitors. The poll done for the Concord Monitor by Research 2000 found Dean with the support of 34 percent, with Clark at 14 percent and Kerry at 13 percent. Others were in single digits.
Atrios:
I've put links to your DNC fundraising page in my sidebar and Kos's, too.
We should boost you guys up to $100,000 fundraisers.
By "we," I mean everyone should put these links in their sidebars and the collective we can raise that much.
My son is a student at the Univ. of Virginia, and he claims that while all of his friends in college support one or another of the democratic candidates, they all hate Dean.
Really? My brother is a student there as well, and tells me there's a rather sizable Dean following on campus. He himself is leaning Dean or Clark, but is more ABB (so he tells me anyway)
Point being, we could play a metaphorical dick-waving game all day long about what Southerners think of Dean, but the important thing is for your son and his friends to realize that, if Dean is the guy, they better sure has hell be pulling that lever for him come Nov. 2.
By "we," I mean everyone should put these links in their sidebars and the collective we can raise that much.
Money Quote
From the Slacktivist:
Most Americans have more debt on their credit cards than money in their mutual funds.
Sorry, couldn't resist
Give hard-earned money to an organization that sits on its hands while Bush runs roughshod over my economic interests?
What do I look like, a sap?
mary - why did you leave out the bit about Dean correcting himself on the book of Job later in the same statement?
I'm in agreement with the majority of you here re: giving to the DNC. Direct giving to presidential, house, and senate candidates both now AND after the primaries is the better way to go.
Why?
Because, there are so many strings attached to the money the DNC gives to candidates or to support candidates. This results in races all over the country being run from Washington DC, and is a large part of the reason Dems get their asses so thoroughly kicked in the red states - because the DNC is completely out-of-touch with how to run races in these states, what will resonate with voters in these states. Instead, the DNC insists that these candidates run on the issues they select, through polling and other means. I've lived through the heartbreak of seeing a much better and more qualified congressional candidate lose by 2 points thanks to bad advice from the DNC. We in the campaign knew it was bad advice, but we couldn't get the money unless we agreed to follow it.
So give to targeted races, and let the DNC figure out why no one is giving to them.
The DNC is in the pockets of big business and unresponsive to the rest of us. It is too much a part power elite to be any real help in the ultimate fight to break the stranglehold that corporations and special interests have on this country, and we'd be fools to place our faith in it.
But when I turn on the news or talk to people, I don't get the sense that the war being fought today is between those who seek to topple corporate dominance and those who seek to preserve it. I see a very different war against an enemy that is trying, with some success, to expand and cement the rule of the power mongers and to transform our country into a land of corporatists and serfs. I don't want to spend my time and money fighting off these reactionary dinosaurs; I would much rather be fighting that other, more inspiring war. But that's not the hand we've been dealt.
I don't like the way the DNC has treated Dean either, but if he wins the nomination he'll need DNC money for the presidential race, and he'll get it. And when President Dean or Clark or Kerry presents his plans to congress, it will be better for all of us, if there are plenty of shiny, Democratic faces smiling back at him. So I'll continue to contribute to the DNC. They may not be our friends, but they are, for the moment, the best and strongest allies we've got.
Call of duty could come again
Retired reservists in Capital Region could be reactivated for Iraq tour
As the Pentagon digs deeper into its pool of civilian soldiers, retired reservists are being notified that they may be reactivated for duty in Iraq.
The answer, for those who want to give to help Dems win, but can't stand the DNC, is to go through organizations like MoveOn, which will select and fund Democrats in close congressional races.
I had meant to add, to my above comment, that the advantage to going through MoveOn is to demonstrate that there's a lot of money coming from people who want the Democrats to fight hard, not be Bush-lite.
Re: the first comment on this thread - notice how Pickler refers to Clark as a "Democrat" rival, rather than "Democratic" rival. Wonder where she picked that up? Certainly not from the party's incorporation papers, where its name is clearly spelled out.
National Press Club Protests New Pentagon Policy Restricting Information
The policy, as outlined in a Dec. 5 memorandum by Defense Department Inspector General Joseph Schmitz, bars electronic publication on the Inspector General's public Web site of "not just classified and 'official-use' data, but also new and indefensible categories" that allow for arbitrary withholding of information, said NPC President Tammy Lytle.
Okay Atrios, I've done it. I'm a sustaining member of the DNC. Hey, do you get a kickback for this? 
To Raybin--I'm glad there are Dean supporters at UVA; obviously my son doesn't know everyone on campus.
I'm not trying to bash him, but I'm afraid of a Dean candidacy. I wrote an entry in my blog that explains how I feel. This will be the most cynical thing you've ever read.
mary,
I was worried about a Dean candidacy too until I realized that almost everything I knew about Dean I'd heard second hand, through the nooze. If you listen to him, hear him answer questions and speak about where he wants to take this country, you get a much more honest and optimistic picture. At least that's what I've found. Your mileage may differ.
Why would I want the DNC to have any money before Dean takes over the party? Sorry, but they haven't been a force for good for at least three years now.
The time to contribute money is after a Dean nomination is assured. Then I can be assured they won't waste my hard-earned money on Carville, McA and Co. In the meantime, it's individual candidates or nobody.
mary, I'm with cg. There are many places on the internet you can access that will give you the real story.
It's intersting that we're not hearing this misinformation about the other candidates (maybe Clark), isn't it. Stop and think about why that might be.
And remember, Bush didn't win the last time. And he's the Worst. President. Ever.
Support them all, mary. Then support our next Democratic President in Jan. 2005.
interesting
Then support our next Democratic President in Jan. 2005.
Nov. 2004. I'm thinking of the wonderful day when bush is gone for good.
[i]Call of duty could come again
Retired reservists in Capital Region could be reactivated for Iraq tour
As the Pentagon digs deeper into its pool of civilian soldiers, retired reservists are being notified that they may be reactivated for duty in Iraq.
Desperate Donald | Email | Homepage | 01.10.04 - 5:45 pm[/i]
What I want to know is, could Bush recall Clark? He's a retired general, but I've heard they were recalling retirees just prior to Iraq War II to train officers and such. Can you imagine what a coup that would be if Clark got the nom and then found out he's on his way to Iraq and by the way, he's not allowed to criticize his commander-in-chief since he's an active member of the armed forces again?
Could this happen?
High ranking officers can always be recalled to duty (Colonel, Generals).
The other retirees would be a bit of a problem, but many of them are part of the IRR (Individual Ready Reserve) which means that they attend no training but that they can be called back for some specified time period.
What is the Individual Ready Reserve (IRR)?
Individual Ready Reserve (IRR), a manpower pool in the Ready Reserve, primarily consists of: Individuals who have had training, have served previously in the Active component or the Selected Reserve, and have some period of a military obligation remaining. IRR members are in an active status, but do not perform regularly scheduled training.
What is the Inactive National Guard (ING)?
Inactive National Guard (ING) consists of: National Guard personnel attached to a specific National Guard unit in an inactive status ING members do not perform training.
What is the Standby Reserve?
Reserve personnel who maintain their military affiliation without being in the Ready Reserve (10 USC 10151) Subject to involuntary active duty under full mobilization (10 USC 12301a) Status Lists in the Standby Reserve: Active Status List: Reservists assigned to Standby Reserve for temporary hardship or other cogent reasons, or who have been identified as “key employees” in their civilian position. Inactive Status List: Reservists not required to remain in an active program, and who maintain their Reserve affiliation in a non-participating status.
What is the Retired Reserve?
All Reserve officers and enlisted personnel who receive pay on the basis of active duty and/or reserve service All Reserve officers and enlisted personnel who are otherwise eligible for retired pay but are not yet age 60, have not elected discharge, and are not voluntary members of the Ready or Standby Reserve Retired Reservists may be ordered to active duty whenever required as determined by the Secretary of the Military Department (10 USC 68
Meet Mrs. Dean
Dr. Judy Steinberg Dean defies the expectations of the wife of a presidential candidate
I have a very bad feeling about Clark. I just don't like the guy. I don't believe he would be good for our country. Why would the dems hire a lobbyist who was paid $800,000 last year to lobby Dick Cheney on behalf of Axciom and who, to this day, sits on their Board of Directors, while he sees if he can get this other job of president.
To those who don't like Dean, I don't like clark. So what are we going to do? We promise to vote for whomever is the nominee.
Nader Says a Run Would Benefit Democrats
Dr. Judy Steinberg Dean defies the expectations of the wife of a presidential candidate
Yes. That's great. Good for her. Let her do what she wants. She's her own person.
Expectations? We have an invisible First Lady who has no career. Whatever. Laura Bush has her own problems. Frankly, I'd rather listen to her than her husband, but she's kept in the box with her husband.
People bashed Hillary because she was too involved.
Make up your mind, will ya?
pie,
Laura Bush's car has killed more people than Tommy Chong's bong.
(and thanks for the support with the poseur a few posts back. 'ppreciate it.)
Atrios,
1. Isn't this thread depressing?
2. Can you set a goal?
3. If the DNC put out a call for programmers to throw together a web templating system for candidates and local democratic club sites, there would be a flood of volunteers, guaranteed. Why don't they do stuff like this? Why are they so slow on the uptake over there?
praktike - because, they're still convinced that all they need is gobs of cash, and that volunteers are an obstacle rather than a resource.
they're not even running a candidate in my congressional district (Texas 10th), tell me what I get out of it?
I stopped my regular contributions to the DNC when Daschle and the other Bush enablers abdicated their responsibility to oppose this illegal war. If Bush's Democratic bithces in congress are somehow different than the DNC, then McCauliffe should have come out of hiding and said so. He didn't. Daschle is only concerned about keeping his gaping rectum reelected in a Red State. McCauliffe is the invisible man. He's had plenty of reasons to express outrage during Incurious George's reign. Where is he? They are both worthless and neither has done one bit of good for the Democratic party. The DNC won't get another dime until both of them are gone.
I stopped my regular contributions to the DNC when Daschle and the other Bush enablers abdicated their responsibility to oppose this illegal war. If Bush's Democratic bithces in congress are somehow different than the DNC, then McCauliffe should have come out of hiding and said so. He didn't. Daschle is only concerned about keeping his gaping rectum reelected in a Red State. McCauliffe is the invisible man. He's had plenty of reasons to express outrage during Incurious George's reign. Where is he? They are both worthless and neither has done one bit of good for the Democratic party. The DNC won't get another dime until both of them are gone.
My money will go to Howard Dean and the congressional candidates to whom his campaign asks me to donate.
Terry Mac owes you a phone call? Hey, the DNC owes me an answer to the many (I have lost count) e-mails I have sent them. They won't even send me a confirmation e-mail so I can post on that precious blog of theirs.
Kim Gandy, president of the National Organization for Women, agrees. "It was not too long ago that Hillary [Clinton] was being pilloried for not baking cookies," she says.
She wasn't pilloried for not baking cookies. She was pilloried for mocking women who do bake cookies.
I predict because Begala & Carville have taken to BASHING Dean, the DNC is going to go broke... in fact my theory is that DNC is paying Lieberman to stay in the race just to bash Dean every time he's in front of a TV camera....
I've seen the lowest of the low go on crossfire.. but if they were Democrats, Carville & Begala would not say a bad word..... gone to far "sexiest man in America" ... I would never give the DNC a penny after this bull shit behavior
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