I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Hell he is popular with corporate interests, and this is what really counts.
Same with the ever popular DLC.
When they stop being afraid of Karl Rove.
And maybe when they pull their collective heads out of their asses.
They'll stop calling Lieutenant AWOL "popular when his ass is bouncing back to Texas next November.
He's "folksy". Major league "folksy". People like "folksy". Big Time.
Yeeeaaaarrrrggghhhhhh!
They'll stop calling Lieutenant AWOL "popular when his ass is bouncing back to Texas next November.
yankeedoodle
Popular former president Bush then.
Why the fuck do they still get the political apellation even after they leave office? Reminds me of that whole Prince name thing.
They should become Mr. or Ms. or Mrs..
Christ this isn't the Eight Doctors named Who.
He's "folksy". Major league "folksy". People like "folksy". Big Time.
Hudson
So Dubya pulls an Andy Griffith with him and the twins whistling on the way to the fishing hole?
Folksy went out with the Beverly Hillbilly's.
Repeat after me: Why does America hate America?
It makes sense, they;ve fucked up pretty much everything why should this be any different? What's going to be fun is when it's President Clark (I hope but I'll settle for Dean Edwards or Kerry) watching the right go rabid with rage.
What they did and tried to do to Clinton will pale in comparision and of course every distater in Iraq after Dubya goes blubbering back to Crawford will be met with "If Bush were President..."
If only the media devoted as much space to the evil little bastard's myriad of scandals, embezzlements, lies and deceptions as they did to Trump's new show or Jacko we;d be in a fine shape.
Even the Fox poll shows a drop.
Google Bomb time.
Maybe we should google-bomb the phrase "unpopular president."
I think one reason for the media feeding frenzy over the yawp is the dawning recognition that Bush is on the way out. They have to figure out who to root for for Prom Queen. It's so lame to be for, like, the loser.
Well this just sucks. Finally a president has the guts to tackle a few hundred athletes using steroids and gay marriage in the same speech and his numbers drop. America - You can't handle the truth!
The only thing I can attribute this drop in Bush's approvals to is the attention the media has been devoting to the Democrats. Which proves something-or-other.
Major media is owned by corporations with vested interests in Bush's reelection.
Campaign Year Mantra - Bush's lies - Bigger than Watergate.
A quick look at the polls shows that Bush's popularity ONLY goes up with big war events. Anything else and Bush slowly falls to the 50% level or lower.
So we can expect the capture of Osama the last week of October.
"So we can expect the capture of Osama the last week of October.
GT"
Rumor has it he has been caught.
A quick look at the polls shows that Bush's popularity ONLY goes up with big war events. Anything else and Bush slowly falls to the 50% level or lower.
So we can expect the capture of Osama the last week of October.
tell that to mentally defective , for they still believe he's popular.
Funny eh?
HA HA HA HA HA
Let me vent for a moment...
Polls are pretty much b.s. because of the large non-sampling error, but what's worse are the inferences made from polls that aren't supported by the data, even if you are to conclude that the poll was a properly conducted random sample.
So lets say the only error IS sampling error. These polls, for example, have an MOE of +/- 3 (and who knows what level of confidence; the article never says...probably 95%). So that to conclude there was some sort of "SOTU Effect" is NOT supported by the data.
When looking at differences, either between options in the same poll OR the same question on polls at two different times, the MOE is actually larger for the difference than it is for the single "estimate". The exact MOE can be calculated, but a general rule of thumb in opinion polls is to multiply by 1.7. So none of these "trends" are statistically significant. (If the true proportions were much further away from 1/2, then maybe they would be.)
That said, while I don't think the implication in the quote from the article, that his numbers dropped after the SOTU is an accurate inference, it is pretty clear that his approval rating might be right around 50%. This is good news. Bush and Cheney will have to go head-to-head in debates with the Democratic nominees. They don't stand a chance.
47% strongly do not want to see him "reelected." That is huge. Even before they know who his opponent is, almost half the population desperately wants to throw his ass out of office. He's going down.
Perhaps we should googlelink Bush to "unpopular failure." Don't underestimate the herd effect that might accompany a dominant "Bush is unpopular" meme, even if it isn't precisely true.
Waaaaaaaaaay OT.
James,
I just google bombed "Unpopular President Bush." I came up with a NYT story about Bush's SOTU speech.
http://tinyurl.com/2uv9g
In which, the author states:
"Some listeners detected an allusion to a passage in "Amazing Grace," the hymn written by a slave trader turned minister and abolitionist, John Newton, after he survived an Atlantic storm:..."
Being keen on urban legends, I went to snopes.com, and found this:
http://snopes.com/religion/amazing.htm
Newton began to express regrets about his part in the slave trade only in 1780, thirty-two years after his conversion, and eight years after he wrote 'Amazing Grace.' In 1785 he began to fight against slavery by speaking out against it, and he continued to do so until his death in 1807.
Thus, the bare bones of the story are true: A former slave trader did compose one of the most moving hymns of our times. But the meat of the claim — that a horrific event spurred a sinner to immediately repent his evil ways, penning 'Amazing Grace' as an expression of his repentence — fails on the facts. Newton's storm-driven adoption to Christianity didn't change him all that much; he continued to make his living from the slave trade for many years afterwards and only left the trade when his wife insisted upon their living a settled life in England.
WHY is the New York Times using urban legend as source?
All the press, and the other folks in the establishment have a vested interest in the status quo. So they'll keep repeating this BS right up to the day that an democratic pres is sworn in. Then they'll bitch and moan "how could it happen that a popular wartime president didn't get re-elected?"
Cause they're really worried they won't get invited to the kool-kid parties anymore.
Bush is the coin-flip president.
Regarding the SOTU stuff about steroids and gay marriage, Bush better watch out, or Bob Paris (gay bodybuilder, won Mr. Universe) is likely to kick his ass.
Sure they'll stop... in that alternate universe where Janklow gets the kind of sentence other people would get if they had long records of tickets and multiple accidents before they kill someone.
I want to move to that universe.
To clarify my previous post...
They don't stand a chance.
refers to Bush and Cheney.
Brendan, because they're lazy, and they think we're lazy too and won't fact check them.
Did you write the NYTimes ombudsman?
Good detective work by the way.
Ahem. I was trying to point out the many layers of hypocrisy. The same people who "supposedly" distrust Dean because he said, "Yeeaaaarrrrggghhhhh!!!" typically despise people who use words like "asshole" in public. Right-wing types. Church-going types. Fundamentalist Republican base types. And it's not like I know anything about this, I'm only talking about my mother. And the only thing I hate more than talking about my mother is my mother.
Who's "folksy" now?
Insert you own Roy Cohn joke here:
Popular. Rhymes with nuclear.
I can use that in one of them pomes Karl says I write to Laura.
I don't have to be popular with yew bunch a pukes, just my Pioneer homies.
James,
What do you think I'm composing now?
Thanks for the idea.
Wait! I'm having a vision....I see....I see....Orange! Until his numbers drop below 40, then I see red.
Sorry, fourlegs.
I called you James. All excited.
Hudson, Tomato Observer found a funny MP3 called "major leage asshole". I'd love to see it get some traction.
I'll never understand why they like the creep. Or why the press does. He's such an obvious phony. And a mental midget.
It's so fucking embarrassing.
Even before the SOTU it was clear that Rove was desperate? Why? Because of the Moon/mars shot and immigration proposal. The mars proposal is so ridiculous it's not worth mentioning, while the immigration proposal is just bad politics. Every US worker will read about that and say "What the fuck? Why is he making easier for foreigners to get jobs?"
But Rove thought W. needed the brown vote enough to take the risk.
Expect more ridiculousness from Rove before election day.
No problemo... I was confused for a sec there? (who's james?)
I'm more convinced than ever that there should be a media watch site, similar to what CJR is doing with campaign coverage, to put a check on these idiots. Not a funny site, a real deal serious critical journal.
It breaks my heart that the NYTimes has fallen so low.
Bush really does have the midas touch. Everything he touches turns to shit. The only way we can lose the november election is by allowing the republicans to portray our candidate as scary. Dean has made that as easy as a walk in the park. And Clark is an unknown quantity. People dont want that now. Kerry is staid and a war hero. He can win.
The only thing I can attribute this drop in Bush's approvals to is the attention the media has been devoting to the Democrats. Which proves something-or-other.
Dr. Pedant | Email | Homepage | 01.24.04 - 5:43 pm | #
I've been thinking about this lately, and I think you're right. In a marvelously implicit way, the Democratic race shows that there are lots and lot and lots of Americans who "love the country" but have serious reasons for questioning what the president, such as he is, is doing. I saw Robin Williams in his live tour (at the Tower in Upper Darby, Atrios!) back in February 2002, I think. He was really rough on WWWonderboy, and I sat there thinking, "This is great! He's making it OK to pick on Bush again. (Much like Dave made it OK to laugh again.)"
I think the Democratic race is doing something like that. And an atheist now says this: THANK GOD !!!
Don't be misoverconfident. Wait until the money spending starts. They have mountains, and you know how the 'informed' voter is. Issues? Hey so what! Dude, or dudett, I just want to be on the winning side. Because that is what I do, get on the winning side. Heehaa.
"George Bush will be remembered as the most beloved and popular president ever voted out of office . . ."
Fox News Channel, November 3, 2004
Clearly a big part of the Rove reelection strategy is to present (over and over and over again) an image of inevitability so overwhelming that the press both repeats it (ad infinitum) and continues to pull its punches figuring that they'll get no turkee for the next four years if they don't.
"...misoverconfident..."
Ralph just made me laugh.
Then he made me depressed - "...Wait until the money spending starts. They have mountains..."
Hey, I remember reading that Bush was going to get a *bump* after the SOTU.
Heheheheh.
Well, it was the worst address ever. Weak. It was the steroids and abstinence speech.
I just realized that they didn't dare lie, so they couldn't say that the State of the Union was anything but fucked.
Popular? He's downright unelectable.
Oh, and anonymous up there: Did you pick Andy Griffith intentionally? I know people think of him as Andy of Mayberry, but he also starred in a great old B&W political movie called, "A Face in the Crowd".
It's been a long time since I've seen it, but if I remember it even remotely correctly, I'm hoping it was a fecking prophecy. Something like homespun-hick-makes-good-then-calls-his-people-
rubes-into-an-open-radio-mic-and-has-all-and-I-
mean-all-his-supporters-literally-turn-their-
backs-on-him kinda prophecy. Please, GOD!!!
(For those that I just spoiled the movie for, sorry, but you wasn't gonna watch it anyway. Hicks!)
Kerry helped Bush fuck this country over.
I'll vote for Kerry when hell freizes over.
Fuck Kerry. Fuck Bush.
And as for your question atrios, haven't you figured it out yet?
Slavery is freedom. War is peace. And "low re-elect ratings" equals "popular."
This is what happens when corporations run this country.
Oh, and I forgot . . .
Dean is crazy and cannot be trusted to have his finger on the nuclear button because of an innocent yell, while Bush is "presidential" after having lied us into a war in which thousands have so far been killed.
Everybody listen carefully. Real carefully, now.
That's it. Come closer. Put your ear close to the screen.
Here it is:
THE AMERICAN CORPORATE MEDIA ARE A BUNCH OF GODDAMNED FUCKING LIARS!!!
Man, it's going to be a loooooooong summer up until the election. I'm already emotionally exausted.
I saw Robin Williams in his live tour (at the Tower in Upper Darby, Atrios!) back in February 2002
OT but:
wow, nice to see someone else knows about The Tower! i grew up near there!
onT: they'll never wake up. the independent small-town journalists who actually check facts are losing the battle against a coporate media full of whores. it's really pathetic, and sad.
Well, it was the worst address ever. Weak. It was the steroids and abstinence speech.
Good point. He came out against sex and drugs. Surprising he didn't throw in rock and roll.
Yes, it's pretty clear that Bush is raising a mountain of campaign "contribtutions", but I don't think it will matter. One thing the polls do seem to support is that he has been only around 50% "popular" for a long time, even though he gets all the positive mass media support he could ever hope for. The dough might help him use ads to help put out a few fires along the way, but he can already do that with Scotty or Powell or Fox or Limbaugh or WaPo or... and it doesn't seem to be doing him much good in terms of gaining ground. By the time we name a candidate for him to face, any candidate, he will already have lost 2004.
The attorney general's office is investigating whether a survey conducted by Gen. Wesley Clark's presidential campaign this week in North Dakota was a violation of the state's new "do not call" law
Hudson, you're dead on about "Face in the Crowd." Griffith is Tipsy to a tee.
If you haven't seen it, check it out.
And he didn't even say "$87 billion".
Will they ever stop calling him "popular?"
Wait 'til he's defeated in November. The floodgates will open.
Maybe he can travel to Africa and speak about aids? Travel to Afghanistan and speak about the drug problem? Travel to Iraq and speak about democracy? Travel to Israel and try to advance the peace process? Travel to England and... no, better skip England.
Hmmmmm.
via Fark.com, looks like another republican can't keep his zipper up at work. Family values? haha
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/2790460/
detail.html
Surprising he didn't throw in rock and roll.
He doesn't know about rock n roll. Condi hasn't told him about it yet.
"Clearly a big part of the Rove reelection strategy is to present (over and over and over again) an image of inevitability so overwhelming that the press both repeats it (ad infinitum) and continues to pull its punches figuring that they'll get no turkee for the next four years if they don't."
Thats how it worked for him in '00 - had big$$$$ and the machine behind him, when McCain had the balls to run against him they cranked up the slime (SC primary - flyers on windshields in church parking lots accusing McCain of collaboration with the NV during Vietnam, and push polling reminding white southern voters about his black adopted daughter). Now he is going to have $200.00 and the slime is going to be unbelievable. Don't kid yourselves, push polling, church flyers, internet innuendo will all be in the bag of tricks for '04
oops...again I was unclear:
By the time we name a candidate for him to face, any candidate, he will already have lost 2004.
'he' refers to Bush.
Re: Rumor has it he has been caught.
To catch bin Laden it would take a pretty big force, they had 600 GIs to pull Saddam out of a hole. Not to mention there would have to be some Pakistan military as he's most likely on thier side of the border along The Frontier. bin Laden ain't Saddam he'd go down fighting surrounded by guys who will go down with him.
Could they keep it quiet? Big maybe, think of those holiday snaps taken by the cats who caught Saddam, they'd talk and if they were ordered to shut up a few would wonder why they risked their neck for Rove's election plans and act accordingly.
salvage
I think they caught the fat Bin Laden from the video tape.
The real skinny one is still out there.
Well, he's offered hydrogen cars. Humble foreign policy. African AIDS relief. Baghdad, Damascus and Kabul on the Hudson. Taxcut and Spend. Trips to the moon and beyond. A war on Steroids.
I figure all he's got left is a free meal at The Sizzler for every man woman and child or a cuddly toy giveway for orphans of the world. Maybe next year.
52 per cent of voters DON'T want Bush elected ("re" implies he's been there, done that), but 78 per cent say it's very likely he will be? What's the story here? Sounds like despair setting in. What's despair? Unexpressed anger. Voters SHOULD be angry at record deficits,job losses, stagnant wages, no health insurance. The only HOPE is to VOTE and elect leaders who care more about the impact the current policies are having on the American PEOPLE, than on the stock portfolios of their cronies. At the rate the country is going, my bet is that GW himself will vote Democratic in November! What can he possibly get out of a second term but chickens coming home to roost?
I don't think bin Laden had anything to do with 911 but he took credit for it. I think it was all the work of the so-called, "Hamburg Cell." I don't think he'll go down in a blaze of glory. I think he will go out like a booger just like Saddam. There's nothing to keep someone close to bin Laden from turning him over. They could wrap him up in a rug, cross over the moutains and turn him over for the millions in bounty.
Clearly a big part of the Rove reelection strategy is to present (over and over and over again) an image of inevitability so overwhelming that the press both repeats it (ad infinitum) and continues to pull its punches figuring that they'll get no turkee for the next four years if they don't.
BenA
yeah, that was the reason they sent aWol to CA at the tail end of the last election. he had no chance of carrying the state, but they wanted to put out that air of inevetibility (sp?) to make the undecideds to go with aWol. same for their claims that he'd get a serious win in the popular vote
It seems to me that the polls underestimated Bush in 2000. There turned out to be more red states than most of us thought. This coming election could be stolen from us again. And I do mean stolen.
Well, it was the worst address ever. Weak. It was the steroids and abstinence speech.
Good point. He came out against sex and drugs. Surprising he didn't throw in rock and roll.
Frederick | Email | Homepage | 01.24.04 - 6:21 pm | #
Ha, ha, went over like a lead balloon, so much for the Rover Hoke Machine.
.....
I think one reason for the media feeding frenzy over the yawp is the dawning recognition that Bush is on the way out.
I think this is correct. Also the relentless attention paid to the Dean yelp has taken the spotlight from Bush's idiotic "WMD-related program activities" statement. Now THAT's embarrassing. If I were a freeper, that would have me ducking under the covers.
What's the opposite of 'bounce'?
Frederick,
"Surprising he didn't throw in rock and roll."
Yeah, he did that years ago.
http://www.martinlewis.com/colum...col=34&
cat=time
"However Bush does add a caveat to his appreciation. "I liked their early stuff. They did some good records. But then they got a bit weird. I didn't like all that later stuff when they got strange."
Fredrick,
Give 'em time. I guara-damn-tee you if Gov. Bush wins come November, the moralist will be gunning for the record industry toot sweet. Or the next time some screwed-up middle class kid whos parents could give less a shit about him blows away half his classmates.
By pulling most of the troops out of Afghanistan, then claiming in the SOTU that Afghanistan was virtually a free country (a lie, unless Kabul denotes the entire country), Bush has minimized the importance of Bin Laden. Yes, it will still be big news if he is caught, but since Bush put all his cards on the Iraq table, I think he has little to gain from occurrences with Al Qaeda and Bin Laden. Or, it could just be wishful thinking on my part, but it's worth considering.
Bush was already slipping due to the huge deficit and drunken sailor spending, but three recent things are killing him:
1) The Mars deficit expansion program
2) The jobs for all immigrants initiative
3) The SOTU speech in which he proposes to buy more stuff
Kerry Maintains Double-Digit Lead in New Hampshire
Leads Dean by 12 points
by Jeffrey M. Jones
GALLUP NEWS SERVICE
PRINCETON, NJ -- The latest CNN/USA Today/Gallup New Hampshire tracking poll results show Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry continuing to have a healthy lead over the rest of the field. According to the poll, which includes interviews conducted Wednesday night through Friday night, 35% of likely Democratic primary voters say they would vote for Kerry if the primary election were held today.
And yet, using the very latest in super-duper scientifical Methodism, this bozo sees a Red Tide sweeping our great land.
All together now: It ain't just a river in Egypt... la la la....
OT but this might be explosive if it weren't buried in the depths of the Guardian:
http://tinyurl.com/2bsye
KAY CONFUSION
Black-5 passes on this Dow Jones report:
David Kay, the outgoing leader of a U.S. weapons search team in Iraq, says that part of Saddam Hussein's secret weapons program was hidden in Syria, a published report said Sunday.
Kay reportedly told The Sunday Telegraph that he had uncovered evidence that unspecified materials were moved to Syria shortly before last year's war to overthrow Saddam.
"We are not talking about a large stockpile of weapons but we know from some of the interrogations of former Iraqi officials that a lot of material went to Syria before the war, including some components of Saddam's WMD (weapons of mass destruction) program," Kay reportedly said in the interview conducted Saturday.
This would seem to verify a DEBKA story that I posted--skeptically--on January 9.
Which makes Kay's widely-reported denial of Iraqi WMD stockpiles really confusing:
Though Kay has said new information has been uncovered about Iraq's programs -- particularly its efforts to build missiles -- he has since concluded there are no weapons stockpiles to be found.
"I don't think they existed," Kay told Reuters news agency on Friday. "What everyone was talking about is stockpiles produced after the end of the [1991] gulf war, and I don't think there was a large-scale production program in the '90s."
Kay, supported by the coalition's Iraq Survey Group, went to Iraq in the wake of the war to lead the search for evidence of WMDs.
Given how how statement was obviously going to play in the press and the campaign trail, why not mention them both simultaneously? They're rather connected.
I hope, I pray, that the Scaife Repubs pour a total of $500 billion in a wild panic to get Bush elected, and that he still loses. To any of the democrats. And the senate goes back to the donkeys too.
If the freakin' idiots in the mass media want to keep fellating Bush, then fine. He loses and they can go back to president bashing like they did to Clinton. Thinking that they will grow up or change is folly.
Did anybody bother to ask Schwarzenegger what he thought about Bush's position on steroids?
Well this just sucks. Finally a president has the guts to tackle a few hundred athletes using steroids
gay basher
What's the opposite of 'bounce'?
flatulus
Bush.
A.
Margaret Carlson just called the chimp "extremely popular" on Capital Gang
What absolutely fucking stuns me is the fact that almost half the country thinks this malevolent bastard deserves to be elected. They are either willfully blind, woefully stupid or plain fucking crazy.
Vinnie, I'm betting on number two, but if they're nuts, that Dean ad down below might help bring them over to our side ... 
A.
Point about MoE is well taken. That's why overall trends in multiple polls tend to be about the only reliable measure, IMHO.
And speaking of which, anybody know what's up with Pollkatz? No updates since December! I'm goin' into major withdrawal here...
you'll see how popular bush is after he kicks the living shit out of the dem's nominee in the general election in november, fuckfaces.
[b]And yet, using the very latest in super-duper scientifical Methodism, this bozo sees a Red Tide sweeping our great land.[/b]
Oh, he thinks Michigan is gonna go red? I don't think so bucko! We didn't in 2000 and given that our "official" unemployment rate is over 7% right now, we ain't gonna this year either.
Anonymous at 7:41, you better hope you're right, because if you're not, you'll have to drink your bourbon all alone. The cool kids will be at my house, watching election returns and dancing to CNN's theme song.
A.
you'll see how popular bush is after he kicks the living shit out of the dem's nominee in the general election in november, fuckfaces.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 01.24.04 - 7:41 pm | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Ah yes, the voice of civility, the Rethugs.
He'll never get any of that 47% back. Remember the talk about the combative state of the union speech? This was supposed to demonstrate the dear leader as decisive and BOLD. Instead it reminded most sane people of a belligerent drunk who haveing just tried to ram his head through a wall, looks strangely like he is contemplating doing it again. This poll result is going a long way towards renewing my faith in the basic decency of the people of this country.
Has everyone forgotten about electronic voting and stealing another election?
Thats their trump card, then we will see how the public reacts,if it looks like a bogus count and result.
The GOP can't afford to lose this election, it could mean real charges brought against high ups in the party. Thats assuming the Senate changes along with a DEM being elected pres.
Yoda is right. Bush is hurting - I keep saying this, but the Dallas paper has been giving him no quarter lately - every scandal reported on. The letters to the ed. have been running against Bush. Right after the immigration initiative was announced, there were days worth of raging letters from conservatives saying: "he just lost my vote." You add that to the monumental deficit, the job losses, and this relentless stream of news lately that there weren't any WMDs, and it's time to stick a fork in George.
On Bush's pile'o'money - what could he possibly spend it on that would change your mind? I can't conceive of anything other than hit men for all possible Democratic contenders. Most of the people I know are rock solid in the 47% strongly against. But then, I am picky about the company I keep. He might have the money, but it won't do him any good. Now - the whore media is another story. They are obviously a problem. We got to keep shaming them. We need a real press.
PC - they stole an election once. They will be watched like hawks this time - depend on it. The Democrats aren't going to just let them walk away with another election. This Democrat isn't, that's for sure. And I don't think the public will buy it a second time - not after all the stories like "No WMDs; likely never existed after 1991."
C'mon. They aren't that all powerfully wicked, man - they are just loathsome and disgusting lying thieves and murderers, but they are still human. (well, possibly, Cheney isn't really.)
Those latest poll numbers on Bush have got to be giving Rove multiple heart attacks. When you don't get a SOTU bounce and instead LOSE points in the polls, it's a bad sign. Multiple factors seem to be causing this.
1: More coverage of the Dem primaries, 24/7 bashing of Bush, and the emergence of four strong Dems (Kerry, Edwards, Dean, Clark) who all can seriously entertain beating Bush (hell, even Lieberman is within striking distance of him in polling matchups).
2: Bush's "conquer space" initiatives. Most Americans and members of Congress felt the same way I felt about it, as in, "Nice idea, but how are we going to pay for it?" Plus, it came off as both a pathetic ploy for Kennedy-like "grandeur" and a way to distract us from the steady stream of body bags from Iraq.
3: His immigration policy ticked off too many people. It tapped into the xenophobia among many Americans, as in the "foreigners are coming to take our jobs" fear. In this economically dismal time, bad move.
4: Iraq. The insurgency is bad enough, but now that the Shiites are basically demanding power or else, Bush's nightmare of Iraqi civil war with U.S. troops caught in the middle is looking possible.
5: His drunken sailor spending, which is making fiscal conservatives in his own party blanch. Barry Goldwater must be spinning in his grave so much that if you hooked him up to a turbine you could power the Vegas strip.
6: His partisan SOTU, where he acted petualant and defensive over everything and gave a prelude of the nasty campagin to come by slurring Democrats and other opponents. Plus, he spent too much time on trivial matters (Steroids? What the f___?).
Rove's got his work cut out for him.
Truman, Johnson, Ford, Carter and Bush I were all one term presidents.
What made them lose?
Truman was brought down by the impossible situation in Korea. He couldn't invade China or most of the country would have turned against him, yet he lost the presidency partially because he fired MacCarthur.
Carter was brought down by inflation, the Iranian hostage crisis, and his shortcomings as a politician.
Ford was brought down by the ongoing backlash over Watergate.
Bush I was brought down by the recession and his own shortcomings as a politician.
Johnson, the most brilliant American parliamentarian of the 20nth Century was brought down by Vietnan.
What Bush II has in common with all of these presidents is the fact that he's a polarizing figure. Liberals despise him and people like anonymous (below) closely identify with him. The race in 2000 was basically a draw so a lot of people in the US are still predisposed to vote against him.
If Kerry runs a perfect campaign, if there isn't any big "October surprise" and if employment continues to stagnate, Kerry can win.
Bush is far too polarizing a president to be a shoo in. He's a lot like Clinton (he divides the country in half) and he hasn't quite won over all the American people.
you'll see how popular bush is after he kicks the living shit out of the dem's nominee in the general election in november, fuckfaces.
One more thing: I doubt the GOP can pull off something like Florida 2000 again. For one thing, the Dems won't be as compliant as Gore was and two, the GOP will be watched like hawks, so it'll be difficult for them to try any tricks.
Still, the GOP is going to pull out all the stops to see Bush reelected. It's not just that they want to see him win fairly (trust me, the fact that he was selected and not elected still needles them), it's that they fear what might happen if they lose power. Given all the investigations (9/11, the Plame affair, Cheney's energy task force, Halliburton) this administration is stonewalling, it's apparent that there are some major scandals that could break open if this gang loses power. I doubt very much that Bush, Cheney or any of the other administration higher-ups desire potential ruin and even jail in their futures. Therefore, they will fight like wild dogs to keep power. This election is going to be nasty and I mean 1828 nasty, where the slurs were so cruel, Andrew Jackson's wife died of a heart attack partially because she couldn't take the stress of it.
On Bush's pile'o'money - what could he possibly spend it on that would change your mind?
Jamais Vu, there's not enough money in the world that can change the minds of the people who have already decided they don't want four more years of this jerk.
There's nothing he is capable of doing now that can allow people to give him another chance.
Let them collect their millions. They can have a big pitty-party when he loses.
SWR - one other thing, I think - if you are going to be an American war president, then you by god better win the fucking war. If you don't, you're not going to be elected. Bush I even realized that and put real parameters on the first Gulf War - parameters he knew going in would be met, and he'd win the war. And he did. He still lost on the economy. And the fact that the first Gulf War wasn't all that popular, either, even though we "won." But not only is the war in Iraq obviously not "won," it is also extremely unpopular with over half the population.
I am having heart palpitations from that "47% of registered voters strongly oppose Bush's 'reelection'" statistic. Annoyingly, 78% still think Shrub is "very likely" (40%) or "somewhat likely" (38%) to get a second term. To help remedy this, I advocate a Google-bombing campaign of unpopular (while not neglecting the old standbys unelectable, miserable failure, and moral coward).
From the Veterans for CommonSense website:
500
- 1/17/2004 3:51:00 PM
January 17, 2004 marks two tragic milestones in the Gulf War: First, the 500th U.S. service member was killed in Iraq since March 20, 2003. Second, the U.S. has been at war with Iraq for 13 years. The total casualties (killed, wounded, injured, and seriously ill) since March 20, 2003 is more than 20,000, and with no end in sight. The total cost of this Administration's war of choice, in terms of lives lost, lives destroyed, and taxpayer money spent, may never be known. Take a moment at your dinner table tonight for a moment of silence for all of those fallen.
Bush has lost chunks of his base. They're not coming back.
gryfe - I agree with you there. It will be probably an all time record setting nasty fight. Unless they stay somewhat distracted by damage control, and that is possible, the way things are going.
But you know what? The Cheney-Scalia duck hunt has not gone unnoticed. If the Repugs think they can get away with using the Supreme Court again, they better think again.
Basically, if the Repugs just absolutely wouldn't let go, I could actually see a real civil war brewing in this country. I say that as someone who generally takes a pretty moderate position on things, who doesn't see much in the way of wild conspiracies out there. But I really could see the beginnings of something I really don't want to see.
Has anyone suggested to Jennings that he simply search for GTech+draft dodging? Maybe he could follow up on the results.
Hah hah, yeah right.
These fuckers will stop at nothing to maintain power, plane wrecks, electronic vote stealing, lies, smears, terrorist attacks, martial law.......don't put anything past them. They are ruthless, they have no shame, they lie with impunity and are never called on it by the media, they have all the networks in their pockets.........Christ, they just scoff when caught in another whopper and keep going. I bet they'll try to call off the election because of a terror alert..heads up folks, it's going to be a nasty ride.
Believe it or not, now that Dean is in the dumpster where he belongs, I wouldn't mind dumping Bush come November as well.
My vote is now ABBOD (Anybody But Bush Or Dean).
Bush II is the only president so far who's completely in your face about offending the opposition party while conducting a war.
Think about how different this makes him from even Truman, Johnson and his father, let alone Roosevelt.
Roosevelt went out of his way to bring Republicans into his adminstration (Henry Stimson) and Truman, Johnon, and Bush I more or less observed the niceties of treating the opposition with some respect.
Bush II reminds me of Reagan with a hot war going on. For him (and his followers) the Democrats aren't your political opponents, they're traitors, un-American.
This *could* backfire on you. It might not, but it could.
SWR - one other thing, I think - if you are going to be an American war president, then you by god better win the fucking war.
Well and I suppose Kucinich, Sharpton and all the other unelectable ones.
Basically, if the Repugs just absolutely wouldn't let go, I could actually see a real civil war brewing in this country.
Tena, we talked about this issue late into the night last night. And I agree with you- something terrible and evil is brewing.
I think we can win the election, it's just the aftermath I'm concerned about.The radioactive zombies aren't gonna give up their perks gracefully.
Philly G, the dems will happily welcome your vote.
Bush sucks. Smart of you to notice.
Traitors don't deserve elections.
For that reason, we have 8 months to destroy Bx. If we do not succeed in chopping Bxco to bits, and sit around instead waiting for an 'election,' we are toast.
"Forget politics. If the people want us back, they'll let us come back." (Bx)
(Forget democracy. If the corporations want us back, they'll 'let' us come back. You ain't seen nothing yet. Surprise!)
four legs good, I really think everyone is wrong about this. These guys will be lucky if they're not run out of town on a rail. I predict a feeding frenzy once Bush loses, and Cheney's ticker won't take another four years. Rumsfeld's old, Powell is powerless, Ashcroft is loony. 9/11, no WMDs, Plame, Energy task force, et cetera. et cetera. So many crimes, so little time left to whitewash.
Besides, they can't call out the National Guardsmen because they're all in Iraq. 
four legs good, I agree. Even if they lose the election, will they give up the power?
"Philly G, the dems will happily welcome your vote.
Bush sucks. Smart of you to notice."
Trust me, I'm no Dem. And I doubt I'd vote for a Dem come November. But this idea of liberals that conservatives or libertarians adore Bush and worship at his alter is purely myth.
Bush has done very little that could be considered fiscally conservative aside from his tax cuts. He supports the Patriot Act, which most conservatives don't like either. I suppose his anti-gay marriage stance appeals to the far Right, but they're just a fringe group anyway.
But am I Dem?
Hell no. DOn't count on my vote.
Tena - I don't share your optimism or your faith in the DEMS, although I certainly hope you are correct (delete RIGHT) on this one.
They are worse then even your description suggests, I will not put anything past them and the mainstream media, along with the voters lack of focus.
They have numerous options to try, Oct surprise, natl emergency and cancelling the election, purging votes etc. The DEMS are at a distinct disadvantage because they believe in democratic principles and the Repugs don't.
What they got away with in Fl 2000 was beyond reality for a democracy, so don't be surprised by anything they try or get away with in 2004.
I'm an extreme left winger but idealism will only get us in further trouble, being realistic and pragmatic are the only way to deal with this crisis.
Peace and have a great weekend!!!
If you want to know why I'm not a Dem, consider Paul labeling those who supported the Iraq war as "racist".
I don't even know how that makes sense. I suppose Paul is a just a far Left whackjob, but unfortunately, so is much of Dean's base.
Now that Dean appears done, I can happily say I can do without both Dean and Bush. Good riddance to both.
PC - they stole an election once. They will be watched like hawks this time - depend on it. The Democrats aren't going to just let them walk away with another election. This Democrat isn't, that's for sure. And I don't think the public will buy it a second time - not after all the stories like "No WMDs; likely never existed after 1991."
C'mon. They aren't that all powerfully wicked, man - they are just loathsome and disgusting lying thieves and murderers, but they are still human. (well, possibly, Cheney isn't really.)
Tena
Once again you prove just how out of touch rich white women can be.
The Democrats ALLOWED him to steal the first. The congressional Black Caucus needed a SINGLE Senator to support their legislation.
FUCKING ZIP!
Just how many senators walked out in protest?
No these fucking assholes actually ate shit and SHOWED SUPPORT for Bush.
If you are claiming that the rank and file will take to arms and mount an insurection, which is doubtful, to stop another stolen election it would be without the politicians.
Where the fuck have you been since 2000 when all Dems have done is blow bush and tell the populace how bad his jizm tastes? They swallowed and never considered spitting it out.
If Bush steals another the rat bastard democrat politicians will smile while he hauls off to concetration camp.
You can't even get your own top two military candidates to admit how heinous it was that he not only dodged the draft but went awol.
You better take a long hard look at the last four years and see EXACTLY how Democrats let the public down.
If you want to know why I'm not a Dem, consider Paul labeling those who supported the Iraq war as "racist".
I don't even know how that makes sense. I suppose Paul is a just a far Left whackjob, but unfortunately, so is much of Dean's base.
Now that Dean appears done, I can happily say I can do without both Dean and Bush. Good riddance to both.
Darth Philly G
You are a fucking moron right?
Dean is the only thing the Dems have going for them.
The war while not being racist was classist. Pretty easy to kick the shit out of a third world country, especially since the sanctions alraedy beat the piss out of the populace.
Iraq was the most advanced country in the middle east. GW1 and those sanctions tore it too the ground.
And when it arises as Iran2, you know who to blame.
A lot of them are.
Take a look at Freerepublic or Little Green Footballs and the way they throw around words like "Koranimals" nad "Savages."
Then find me anything coming out of the right during the Cold War that spoke of Russians or East Germans in the same way. You never heard the words "slavic animals" or "sub human Russian" in the 1980s. The right distinguished between Russians and Communism.
Not so with the middle east.
If you want to know why I'm not a Dem, consider Paul labeling those who supported the Iraq war as "racist".
pie,
Of course Shrubya'll pardon all and sundry, as his last act on his way out of town. And the Repubs will have two words to address the outrage: Marc Rich (as if there were really some comparison). ANd the media'll let the whole thing slide, just like they did when Poppy pardoned Poindexter and Abrams.
It's rough being this cynical, let me tell you. But that's what I see.
The racist PG says: "If you want to know why I'm not a Dem, consider Paul labeling those who supported the Iraq war as "racist".
If we want to know why you are a racist, what do we have to consider? That you don't mind killing 40,000 innocent people who are not of your race?
On a lying pretext made by the traitor who took the longest vacation of a sitting President in US history while the entire world was warning of the imminence of 911?
Your righteous belief in your own lies is what is worth considering, troll.
Dean is the candidate. His campaign single-handedly destroyed Gephardt in Iowa, the candidate splitting the union vote with Dean. Now the whole country's union voters have a simple choice to make. Rove's attacks on Dean have all backfired, and if our democracy is able to function, Dean will win by one of the largest landslides in US history.
Presuming Bx and his pals aren't hanging by their necks, unable to talk, much less to lie. No elections for traitors. No credence to racist trolls like PG.
People who INTENTIONALLY murder innocent people through the use of suicide bombings and the like ARE savages, and I have no hesitation in saying so.
People who INTENTIONALLY murder innocent people through the use of suicide bombings and the like ARE savages, and I have no hesitation in saying so.
Darth Philly G
One mans savage is anothers freedom fighter.
I suppose if the Israeli's treated the Palestines like people ( maybe you missed the fact that israel has ignored more UN resolutions than any other nation in the world, and they play the anti-semite card at every little word) then they would not have to blow themselves up and do collateral damage.
They have become the Nazi's they so hate.
But we're talking about a war on *Iraq* not about Al Qaeda or the Gaza Strip.
And once again, you don't distinguish between "Arabs" and "terrorists" the way people used to distinguish between "Russians" and "Communists."
People who INTENTIONALLY murder innocent people through the use of suicide bombings and the like ARE savages, and I have no hesitation in saying so.
Paul you are whackjob. I'm sure you make sense to your friends down at the International Solidarity Movement, but you're still nonetheless a whackjob.
And I'm glad you'll continue to pat yourself on the back as a "human rights advocate" as you continually decry the removal of fascist dictators like Hussein and Milosevic.
I suppose "human rights advocates" like yourself prefer peace at all costs and the status quo to anything else. I suppose genocide is ok with you and should not be stopped with force...EVER.
Whatever works for you whackjob.
"and if our democracy is able to function, Dean will win by one of the largest landslides in US history. "
You really live on a different planet don't you Paul. The vast majority of Americans, including Democrats, don't even like Dean at this point. Sorry to break the news to you.
Again, I'm not a liberal because...
"One mans savage is anothers freedom fighter.
I suppose if the Israeli's treated the Palestines like people ( maybe you missed the fact that israel has ignored more UN resolutions than any other nation in the world, and they play the anti-semite card at every little word) then they would not have to blow themselves up and do collateral damage.
They have become the Nazi's they so hate."
Yes, the israelis routinely round up 6 million Arabs, send them to concentration camps and then gas them to death, making no distinction between men, women, and children.
Oh wait, nevermind, that doesn't actually happen. And you are anti-Semite if you actually believes that Israelis are Nazis.
My vote is now ABBOD (Anybody But Bush Or Dean).
Hell no. DOn't count on my vote.
I know you're not a dem, Philly G. ('Course you don't have to be one to vote for one.)
But for whom exactly do you plan on voting?
Here's another one I can't figure out-Wall Street Week with Fortune presented data Friday showing that the stock market has risen 12% annually under Democratic presidents, 2% under Republicans. And yet I will bet 90% of the Wall Street crowd will be rooting for Bush.
Dean will win by one of the largest landslides in US history. Sorry, dude. Dean is toast. Clark is the one they're going after now, but he's going to be harder to take down. They're going to work to make sure he doesn't get the nomination. Kerry is the new pick of the media whores.
Probably libertarian but possibly for Edwards (who I don't agree with always but he's fairly moderate).
Plus, a Dem President and a Republican Congress produced good results in the 90's as we all saw.
As it stands now, the Repubs are just doing everything they can to stay in power, including abandoning their principles. With a Dem president, and a Repub Congress, perhaps the two sides will actually start sranding up for what they believe in rather than what they think will get them elected.
I am pretty sure Wall Streeters very much preferred Clinton and would probably favor a Democrat that would possibly be friendly to bankers and insurance companies like Kerry, Clark, or Dean.
People who INTENTIONALLY murder innocent people through the use of suicide bombings and the like ARE savages, and I have no hesitation in saying so.
SWR
And states that murder innocent women and children with more advanced weaponry than than the other side are genocidal fascists.
What about the many more innocent Palestinian women and children?
They don't count for shit?
PhillyG. Your point about not being a liberal because liberals are anti-semitic and anti-Israel makes no sense.
Most liberal Democrats are pro-Israel.
Putting John Kerry in the same category as ISM supporters is just silly.
And you still haven't addressed my point. A lot of pro-war people who support Bush *don't* distinguish between Arabs and terrorists the way Republicans used to distinguish between Slavs/Russians and Communism.
Race does play a part. And most of the right's criticisms of Bush come out of the fact that they don't see him as being racist enough.
When Bush said "Islam means peace," it drove the Little Green Footballs crowd batshit.
And the only criticism a lot of conservatives will make of Bush is his stance on immigration (which is pretty similar to the Democrats).
I am one of those benighted souls who has thought all along the election is being handed to us on a platter, we just don't know it yet.
"you'll see how popular bush is after he kicks the living shit out of the dem's nominee in the general election in november, fuckfaces" - Anonymous
Ooohh, wow, we're all just quakin' - with laughter. Now, be a good little pottymouth and go play jacks on the freeway.
Dean will win by one of the largest landslides in US history. Sorry, dude. Dean is toast.
Blutocrat
And another crackhead comments on politics.
Media and Dem leadership sold you that lie.
I am one of those benighted souls who has thought all along the election is being handed to us on a platter, we just don't know it yet.
BobNJ
That is the problem. The wrong Dem will drop that platter and the idiot ADBB will immediately chant " Hillary 2008!"
And yet I will bet 90% of the Wall Street crowd will be rooting for Bush.
Yeah, keep in mind that the "Wall Street crowd" is just that - a crowd. Or more accurately, a herd. Which is why Democrat Warren Buffet (well, until his weird recent Arnold stint) made so much money staying in Omaha.
Wall Streeters make outrageous salaries so that they can afford to live in Connecticut or Westchester. So while Clinton was reducing the cap gains tax and benefiting entrepreneurs, they were screaming because their income tax went up a few measly points. If they were any good, they ALL made a killing under Clinton. Which would you rather have if you were Michael Dell -- your token $200k salary taxed marginally higher or your net worth increasing 20x? (And yet Dell is a Repub - go figure.)
I think what they like about the Repubs is the hierarchical philosophy that there exists a class that is just BETTER than everyone else. Which explains its wider appeal to loser angry white guys who are desperate to think they're better despite all evidence.
left out Lieberman. He too would probably be friendly to Wall Street and insurance companies.
I think most of the self-proclaimed Deaniacs are good solid democrats and sincere in their beliefs. As a Kerry supporter (not anti anyone) I do find a small minority of Deaniacs a bit slavish in their devotion to Dean. So much so that other candidates are attacked on appearance or some other silly thing.
I have never called Dean stupid, crazy, stumpy or any other name. I think that might be what some others are talking about. It seems for some, criticism of Dean is herasy while other candidates can be called any name in the book.
I have held back when Kerry has been attacked personally. I know he is not perfect and I concur with much of the criticisms. But this electability thing about any candidate is pure speculation.
If you believe Kerry is no better than Bush than you have to believe:
Kerry will apoint Scalia type judges;
Kerry will invite oil companies to make energy policy;
Kerry will continue "preemption"
Kerry will seek amendments on marriage and/or abortion;
The list is endless. Lets all back the Dem, even if you have to hold your nose. I can't take four more years.
"Putting John Kerry in the same category as ISM supporters is just silly. "
Where did I say that? Kerry's liberal, but certainly not ISM crowd liberal.
"When Bush said "Islam means peace," it drove the Little Green Footballs crowd batshit. "
Because they're right. Not ALL of Islam is peaceful. The vast majority is, but a decent sized sub-section is not. And I think the LGF crowd wanted Bush to make that distinction. And they were right to ask him to do that.
Probably libertarian but possibly for Edwards...
Libertarian? Stand on principle, but waste your vote. Your right. Edwards? Doubt he'll get the nom.
I've already seen people adjust their attitudes, and that will continue. Even you, Philly G.
Just remain openminded about the possibility that things can change for the better. These past three-plus years have been a nightmare.
Media and Dem leadership sold you that lie.
No, common sense and paying attention led me to that conclusion. Sorry you don't like my opinion but your guy is done. Stick a fork in him and move on. If he can't take Iowa after spending two years there, with more money than anyone else, then he never would have made it in the South anyway.
Look, I like Dean - a lot. And I think the media trashing of him has been just plain insane. But I don't think he'd be a strong nominee.
He COULD beat Bush, however. But now we'll never know.
And if you look at the positions Kerry and Dean take, there isn't much difference.
Dean wouldn't pull the troops out of Iraq any sooner then Kerry would. Dean backed down on the issue of "evenhandedness" between the Palestinians and Israelis. And Dean's economic policies aren't that much different. Right now it's all posturing about taxes and the budget anyway.
I guess a lot of Dean supporters look at a vote for Dean as a referendum against the war. Vote for Dean and it's a ringing denunciation of Bush. Vote for Kerry and you only switch parties.
But, as you said, it's not. Kerry's domestic policies would be far, far better than Bush's, even if he does take money from Wall Street.
If you believe Kerry is no better than Bush than you have to believe
"Just remain openminded about the possibility that things can change for the better. These past three-plus years have been a nightmare."
Pie, trust me, I'm a lot more openminded that you'd think. In fact, I'm a lot more "progressive" than you think. Most of the time, our versions of "progressive" policies will be similar but other times it will differ. (for instance, I still don't know how self-described populist liberal could say no to giving vouchers to poor inner city kids who really have nothing to lose.)
However, if I get called a "racist" by people like Paul for supporting a war (which doesn't even make sense), then you can be sure I'll be happy to tell him off.
But don't expect me to become a Democrat, although I do happen to agree with a lot of Democratic principles. On the other hand, I agree with a lot of Republican principles. Hence, I lean libertarian.
I am one of those benighted souls who has thought all along the election is being handed to us on a platter, we just don't know it yet.
BobNJ
Bob,
What do you mean, exactly?
I doubt there are even many Dean supporters in the ISM. There's really no such thing as an "ISM Liberal." Most are leftists or Marxists of some variety.
And your being far too generous to the Little Green Footballs crowd. I made the mistake of trying to debate a few of those people once and they started calling me a "sandnigger" and a "koranimal." And I'm thinking, huh? I'm Polish/German and Christian.
Those people *are* racists. I don't think that everybody who supported the war against Iraq is a racist but those people are racists and race does play a part in the war.
Why? Because a lot of Americans supported the war, not because Iraq was a threat and not because they were involved in 9/11, but because a lot of us wanted to beat up on some Arab country, any Arab country.
The equivalent would something like:
The Ira bombs London and the British people call for an invasion of Spain. They are both Catholic countries, right?
tried to debate a few of those people
Where did I say that? Kerry's liberal, but certainly not ISM crowd liberal.
Getting called a racist for supporting a traitor's war is going easy on you, racist.
People sitting around waiting for an election are BEING STUPID.
"And it is tempting to believe that the danger (I pose to the nation and the world will soon be) behind (you.)
That hope is understandable, comforting -- and false."
--Bxco's 2004 SOTU
Lies, and the traitors to make those lies real.
' 'Democracy'? Don't make us laugh any more than we already are. King of the World!!!!'
I also think it is very unlikely the Dems will do anything if the election is stolen. In 2000 they were pathetic, but hey, they wanted to show respect for 'the office.'
The media has got worse in the last ten years, and then we have the voting machines!!!!!!!
I think the Dems should be made to understand that if they do not fight this time, it just maybe the begining of the end for the Dem party.
Annoyingly, 78% still think Shrub is "very likely" (40%) or "somewhat likely" (38%) to get a second term.
That's not the important number. What counts is: who will they vote for? And according to this poll, at least 47% wouldn't have him creamed on toast points.
I'm less pessimistic myself. The SOTU was supposed to be Bush's party piece, but even his supporters seem less than dazzled. And every war/security-related bounce he gets is much less than the one before; it's getting to the point where he can pull bin Laden out of his ass at an appropriate moment and it's not going to help him near as much as he expects.
We can totally kick his ass back to Crawford.
Philly G, I'm not expecting you to become a dem! You sound pretty independent to me.
Paul has the right to say what he believes, as do you. Yes, you disagree. Somewhere down the road, you might listen to each other and find some common ground. Compromise. That would be great.
If not that, then understanding and respect for each other's postion would be nice.
Paul, in all seriousness, were you dropped on your head as a baby?
You don't even strike me as a real person. I'm just hoping that one of these days you're going to say, "I'm a Bush plant, just trying to make the Dean people look whacky" but you keep talking and I'm still waiting for your confession.
I'm seriously starting to wonder about you. Can you write Bush without resorting to writing "Bx"? And I'm still waiting for some kind of criticism for Saddam Hussein from you.
Pie,
You're a reasonable guy/girl? so I could certainly compromise with you.
But I really don't know how it's possible to compromise with someone like Paul. Just thinking about it makes my head hurt.
Time to head out for the night. But have a good night pie.
The probabability of a major event occurring has an inverse relation to BushCo's poll numbers - the more the poll numbers slide, the greater the chance of a major event occurring.
pie, I hope you're right. However, some of the white hot hatred I've seen coming out of the right makes me pessimistic.
I think they believe they have a god given right to rule america and that anyone who disagrees with them is a tool of satan.
It's going to get ugly. There's a lot of money and power at stake, not to mention that they rightly believe that dems would do their best to preserve america as a secular place. It has all the makings of a religious civil war. I hope I'm dead wrong.
I think the Dems should be made to understand that if they do not fight this time, it just maybe the begining of the end for the Dem party.
sally,
Nonsense. For one thing, the idiots who run the Dem party are in no position to perceive the rightness (assuming it is right) of what you say; therefore they will ignore it. Second, the idiots who run the Dem party are incapable of fighting. Look at Holy Joe. Look at Daschle. Biden. Sweet Jeebus, you could blow them over with a light breeze. Thirdly, if they do not fight this time, the putative end of the Dem party will be the least of our worries.
Thirdly, if they do not fight this time, the putative end of the Dem party will be the least of our worries.
It's all about power and how you use it. We won't be able to tell much until we have a nominee. Then the shit had better hit the fan.
On the bright side:
Computer reportedly seized from Frist's officeDemocrats say their computers were infiltrated by GOP staffers
new ARG 1/22-24: Kerry 38 (34), Clark 17 (19), Dean 16 (15), Edwards 15(13).
Dr pedant,
If the Dems to not put up a fight this time, how on earth are the Dem leaders going to get any help/money from many in the grass roots of the party, with future elections?
I agree with you about the fact that so many of them refuse to fight. But then why should anybody else, if the politicians won't even bother?
If you want to know why I'm not a Dem, consider Paul labeling those who supported the Iraq war as "racist".
That's an almost bushesquely stupid reason for not being a Dem. It's on par with Dennis Miller becoming a conservative because he heard someone call Giuliani a nazi. Do you also avoid certain products because someone you dislike uses them?
Have you ever considered looking at each party's basic philosophy? Perhaps you should.
I guess a lot of Dean supporters look at a vote for Dean as a referendum against the war. Vote for Dean and it's a ringing denunciation of Bush. Vote for Kerry and you only switch parties
SWR, I don't know what a whole lotta Deanies are thinking, but I know for me Dean was the first guy to stand up against Bush and that's what gave me hope he could beat him. He didn't say "all war sucks" or even "this war sucks" right away. He said "where the hell are the Democrats? Why aren't they asking questions? What in God's name is going on?"
I don't know if every Deaniac makes that distinction, but for me, that was the reason I switched over from being a Kerry backer. I want the guy who can hit the hardest, yell the loudest and make the most noise about the fact that something very bad is going on here. I
To be totally honest (don't revoke my lefty card for this, guys) I wasn't sure the war was a totally terrible idea at first. If Saddam did indeed have weapons, and if we were at risk, and even if just Israel was at risk, I mean, we should defend our allies, but I wanted more information, and our government wouldn't give it to me, and mocked the people (including some brave reporters) who asked for it on my behalf. That's what pissed me off before the war.
I felt Dean was standing up for me. I liked that. And I haven't seen anything since that time that's made me rethink that choice.
Is it a gut reaction? About as valid as voting for somebody based on whether you'd like to have beer with him? Sure. It's been like falling in love. I'm pretty sure I'm going to end up with my heart broken.
Just like every time I get involved with politics.
A.
"If you want to know why I'm not a Dem, consider Paul labeling those who supported the Iraq war as "racist"."
Yeah, that's nearly as bad as being labeled a traitor for not supporting the war.
"The GOP can't afford to lose this election, it could mean real charges brought against high ups in the party."
--Not if Kerry gets elected. Don't kid yourself. He's just as much a part of the system as Bush is.
He helped Bush take us into the war. To me, he's just as guilty. He helped Bush pass the first round of tax cuts back in 2001.
Kerry's an asshole.
I'm sick of voting for the "lesser of two evils." That's why I stopped being a Democrat in 1993 after all the betrayals of Clinton's first year in office.
If that's the best that I'm ever gonna get in this country, then as I've said many times before, Europe or someplace else is looking more and more attractive every day.
The rest of you suckers can then have this country. I'm moving on.
And don't worry: I won't let the door hit me on the ass on my way out.
Kerry will hand out pardons to all the Republicans.
Athenae, well said. I also was a Kerry supporter at one point and switched to Dean for a lot of the same reasons.
I don't think anybody did. I was in lower Manhattan on 9/11 and just about the time the anthrax attacks started hitting the news, I was getting pretty freaked out.
Interestingly enough, what made me think Saddam was a threat at first was the arguments a lot of leftists were making. It wasn't only Bush who was bringing Saddam into the picture. Chomsky and his crowd were doing the same thing. A lot of them were bringing up the UN embargo and blaming the US for the deaths of "500,000 children" and implying that 9/11 was payback for Gulf War I.
So I can see how a reasonable person would have supported the war. Most people in the US don't know much about politics and couldn't have figured out that Saddam was more or less the mayor of Baghdad before he was taken out, hardly a threat to the US.
But when you think about it, Bush invaded Iraq partly because he doesn't want to deal with North Korea and Pakistan, countries that do have weapons of mass destruction. He's playing politics with our safety and the same instinct that made me give him the benefit of the doubt right after 9/11 makes me now think he's too imcompetant and ideological to deal with my security.
I'd much rather see dull, opportunistic John Kerry in office than see Bush squeak by after being hammered by Dean.
To be totally honest (don't revoke my lefty card for this, guys) I wasn't sure the war was a totally terrible idea at first.
Wild eyed lefty writes: I don't think bin Laden had anything to do with 911 but he took credit for it. I think it was all the work of the so-called, "Hamburg Cell."
Of course OBL was responsible. He directed every moment of the attack from his high-tech cave where he had everything. Except a phone (stopped using satellite phone after 1998 bombing). And access to outside news (received week-old papers). Or any way of communicating to followers except through poor-quality re-used videotapes.
Well, okay, maybe he didn't plan EVERY detail. But all the attackers met him when they trained in Afghanistan right? Oh wait ... no evidence any of them ever WAS anywhere near Afghanistan.
Oh well. Maybe, as the Taliban said on 9-12-01: "Bin Laden gets credit for a lot of things he didn't do."
Who the hell knows?
Trust me, Kerry's reinvention of himself as a critic of the Administration by way of coopting Dean's message is just a strategem he is using to help him get elected.
Don't worry. If he wins, and if he even wins the White House, he will go back to his usual spineless, waffling, and politically cowardly self. A Republican Congress is gonna walk all over him . . . and he'll let it happen.
And you can bet on that prediction. In fact, it's like money in the bank.
And let me say this. With a Kerry candidacy, all you're gonna hope for is a Democrat in the White House.
With Dean heading the ticket there is a good chance that Dean's still-growing grass roots/activist movement will be able to help retake the House, and at least hold the Senate to its present balance.
The dynamic of Bush's poll ratings is a fascinating mathematical phenomena. His approval rating has a "relaxation rate", i.e. after an initial perturbation (a sharp rise in popularity), his ratings decline linearly. There have been 3 perturbations: 9/11, Iraq invasion, capture of Saddam. Also interesting to note is that each successive spike has been smaller than the one before. No other recent president (from the data I have seen) had a popularity dynamic like this. Fascinating.
Where'd you get those numbers? From what I've read, Bush is a sure thing this fall.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news...id=694&
ncid=716
Sen. Joe Lieberman (news - web sites) has been lagging in the polls, but told diners that he was experiencing an "outbreak of Joe-mentum."
Now that's funny.
Joe Lieberman's the best shot the Democrats have.
No, Gordon...If it's about beating Bush in November, any Democrat can do that.
No offense Dogger, but that's a rather bold statement to be made but someone in your shoes. The once chance you had (Dean), just "screeched" his way off the polls.
I haven't seen as brilliant a performance as that since Muskie cried.
Hiyaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
Jeremiah, I agree getting the House and Senate back would actually blunt a lot of the bullshit we've seen the last few years even if Bush was still around, but I don't see Dean's organization doing that. Maybe I haven't been paying attention to some key races, but I wonder if it's all just going to go away if he loses big. I don't see Trippi being rewarded for his work with a high-up position in the DNC. I dream of that, but I don't see it happening.
I hope you're right and I'm wrong.
A.
Hey Gordon. You're making the best argument I can imagine for voting for Dean.
Yes Muskie cried. But he was vastly preferable in 1972 to Richard Nixon. Had Muskie won, we would have been spared getting ripped apart as a country by Watergate. Too bad people ruled out Muskie, who was a perfectly credible candidate, on the basis of one emotional outburst.
So I'll accept Dean as Muskie. But that means you have to accept Bush as Nixon.
I haven't seen as brilliant a performance as that since Muskie cried.
Check out Gordon's site. Here's an example of the kind of political analysis you'll find there:
Rumor has it Atrios and Skippy meet in Rest areas and bang one another like wild minks.
BTW Gordon, where are W's DD-214 codes?
Athenae, you hit the nail on the head. A lot of my extended family lives in Vermont, and after hearing the first inklings of 'Dean is the guy' on the internet, I asked them about him. Not exactly the kind of small-state Gov you'd expect to generate a progressive, grass-roots campaign: fiscal conservative, former doctor, brusque but honest, and liked well enough to win 4 or 5 elections. But it was the fact that he seem
He was being paid attention to because he embodied the thoughts millions of Americans were having: let's just put all the facts out on the table, some of this stuff I'm hearing is just not right, etc.
Deans's our best chance. I'd hold my nose and vote for just about anyone in the country over Bush (and I mean that. I'd vote for f*cking Tom Delay over Bush. I don't think Bush has any concept of the disaster his Presidency is -- at least most Repubs seem to be intelligent, if scary).
Dean was riding the crest of a movement until the SCLM hachet job started. And those millions aren't all going to switch to Kerry because Iowa said so.
Here's another one I can't figure out-Wall Street Week with Fortune presented data Friday showing that the stock market has risen 12% annually under Democratic presidents, 2% under Republicans
Actually, the DOW hasn't risen anything under Bush and is right at where it was when he was selected on Election Day. Also note, the DOW was down 2000 points on the day BEFORE 9/11, so you can't blame it on the attack; he was already running the stock market into the ground.
A typical argument used against the Dems is that they increase govt spending, whereas Repugs cut back govt spending. WANNA BET?! The numbers don't lie.
The average annual real increases in domestic discretionary spending:
LBJ 1965-69 4.3%
Richard Nixon 1970-75 6.8%
Gerald Ford 1976-77 8.0%
Jimmy Carter 1978-81 2.0%
Ronald Reagan 1982-89 -1.3%
George H.W. Bush 1990-93 4.0%
Bill Clinton 1994-2001 2.5%
George W. Bush 2002-04 8.2%
Note that except for Reagan, every Repug president since LBJ has been a big spender, and the Dems the smallest spenders.
Let them stuff that in their pipes and smoke it! Pass it around.
C
(Source: Club for Growth, based on U.S. Budget, Historical Tables, 2004, courtesy of Bill Bonner
Ha, ha, went over like a lead balloon, so much for the Rover Hoke Machine.
.....
MinnieB9
don't you mean a led zeppelin? ;}
From what I've read, Bush is a sure thing this fall.
Naturally, you're going to think that if all you read are RNC press releases.
Those of us paying attention to people in this country, however, notice the growing dissatisfaction with lies, corruption, and betrayal.
Travis, man, don't make me imagine the choice between Bush and DeLay. I assume death is not an option?
And what in the name of arse is this about? bang one another like wild minks.
Are wild minks particularly promiscuous compared to the domesticated variety? What about compared to other animals? Do they "bang" differently than most mammals? Exactly how many hours of late-night Discovery Channel did you have to watch, Gordon, before you found the bizarre cross between Cinemax and Animal Planet that seems to have informed your commentary?
I'm totally curious about this mink thing now.
A.
Note that except for Reagan, every Repug president since LBJ has been a big spender, and the Dems the smallest spenders.
That's been their pattern for a while. Republicans put the country on a path for destruction with stupidly huge deficits and regressive policies. Then a Democrat has to fix it, while Repubicans in Congress do all they can to keep the nation on a collision course with disaster.
Just watch the Dean bounce. Garnering the union votes of the entire country is well worth 'losing' Iowa. Driving Gephardt from the race--- how is it the NYT and other Whore presses don't note that little accomplishment?
Could it be...they are afraid?
Yalping Dems only match the yalping electorate, who have been in daily pain for over three years. The real issue is how much of a traitor Bx wants to be, or, rather, how much of a traitor is he willing to be in plain view.
I don't want to know, so my call is for:
Impeachment by Summer!
Spare no efforts to bring down this traitor and his cronies. And as far as Watergate goes? THESE ARE THE SAME PEOPLE!
Nixon, Bx...have to put stakes in their hearts, can't just bury them.
KAY CONFUSION
Black-5 passes on this Dow Jones report:
David Kay, the outgoing leader of a U.S. weapons search team in Iraq, says that part of Saddam Hussein's secret weapons program was hidden in Syria, a published report said Sunday.
Kay reportedly told The Sunday Telegraph that he had uncovered evidence that unspecified materials were moved to Syria shortly before last year's war to overthrow Saddam.
hmm, the PNAC gallery has been itching to invade Syria, especially since their excellent adventure in Iraq didn't fly so well. wonder where they're going to getthe troops for it though, we're already stretched to the breaking point without a draft
"The rest of you suckers can then have this country. I'm moving on.--Jeremiah Elias"
And how much weight should be given to the utterances of a SELFISH COWARD ?
You cannot escape the effects of US tyranny, Jerry. After you've split to your 'good life' on the other side of the earth, put in a good supply of iodine, and make sure you put a swastika on your door so no one will bother you.
if karzai is assasinated will it make the MWs focus on pipelinestan?
What is the opposite of bounce?
Why I think that would be thud or dud .
The sotu was a dud 
.
.....
On Bush's pile'o'money - what could he possibly spend it on that would change your mind? I can't conceive of anything other than hit men for all possible Democratic contenders.
Jamais Vu | Email | Homepage | 01.24.04 - 7:52 pm | #
Here is a taste of what they've been spending their $200 million on:
"As with everything about the Bush presidency, its re-election campaign seems to exist at two levels. There's the public campaign, in which a moderate, visionary president comes up with inclusionary programs -- pro-Mars, pro-Mexican -- to broaden his base of support. And there are the more niche campaigns, hidden in the shadows, in which the campaign stirs its right-wing supporters to action by appealing to their baser instincts. There are impressive efforts to register and turn out millions of new voters. And there's evidence of national Republican efforts to perfect longstanding voter-intimidation programs directed at blacks and Hispanics."
Well Dick and Karl better call Diebold and let em know that they might need a few more votes.
The only thing I can attribute this drop in Bush's approvals to is the attention the media has been devoting to the Democrats. Which proves something-or-other.
Dr. Pedant | Email | Homepage | 01.24.04 - 5:43 pm | #
It proves that the 24-hour news cycle is every bit as much the Demos' friend as it is Bush-Rove's. It can be a great equalizer if used properly, and can blunt the cash stockpile Bush will have. With Gephardt out, Dean subdued, Lieberman all but sealed in his political coffin, the Demos are putting the administration more squarely in the crosshairs than each other. That's all good. With the primaries gaining attention, Kerry and Clark both have a platform to directly attack Bush's suspicious and undefendable `military' background. So what if they dig at each other a bit? It's a good scrap. This stuff travels across party lines.
Bush is hurting - I keep saying this, but the Dallas paper has been giving him no quarter lately - every scandal reported on. The letters to the ed. have been running against Bush. Right after the immigration initiative was announced, there were days worth of raging letters from conservatives saying: "he just lost my vote." You add that to the monumental deficit, the job losses, and this relentless stream of news lately that there weren't any WMDs, and it's time to stick a fork in George.
I don't want to sound a false note of optimism here, but I'm seeing the same thing from moderates and conservatives that I'm in contact with. Maybe it's anecdotal, maybe I'm living in a fantasy world, but I'm hearing from more and more people who say they have friends or family members who are just fed up with the Chimperor and won't be voting for him in '04.
Like Lincoln said, to paraphrase, "you can't fool all the people all the time."
Hell no. DOn't count on my vote.
Darth Philly G
Hell no. DOn't count on my vote.
Darth Philly G
(Sorry, this didn't come through the first time...)
Can someone please find a rat somewhere so we can give a skinny rat's ass what DPG thinks? Or at least have something to feed the trolls?
"The GOP can't afford to lose this election, it could mean real charges brought against high ups in the party."
--Not if Kerry gets elected. Don't kid yourself. He's just as much a part of the system as Bush is.
He helped Bush take us into the war. To me, he's just as guilty. He helped Bush pass the first round of tax cuts back in 2001.
Kerry's an asshole.
I'm sick of voting for the "lesser of two evils." That's why I stopped being a Democrat in 1993 after all the betrayals of Clinton's first year in office.
If that's the best that I'm ever gonna get in this country, then as I've said many times before, Europe or someplace else is looking more and more attractive every day.
The rest of you suckers can then have this country. I'm moving on.
And don't worry: I won't let the door hit me on the ass on my way out.
Jeremiah Elias | Email | Homepage | 01.24.04 - 10:36 pm | #
I'll make sure the door cracks open your head, you selfish asshole. If that's the way you feel about the country I love, then we're better off not having people like you here.
I can relate to Jeremiah's comments above. While I agree Iraq was a just cause their are many issues that I dislike Bush for. And that dislike started before he was elected. As a candidate for Pres. you should be able to name the head of a country (Pakistan) that just months before overthrew an elected Gov., whose intel Dept. aids and abets Osama, tested a nuclear weapon,and was/is embroiled in a decades old boarder war. Bush had no clue.
If you have deluded yourself into believing the current [Dim]ocratic candidates are any better, keep dreaming.
Here is an example, Kerry when out of his way to play the patriotic card during the last debate when asked a "hypothetical" question about a returning Military Vet throwing away "his" medals.
It turns out the question is based on a real event and Kerry continues to distort the truth about it.
The facts can be read here;
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/...20/
131219.shtml
You can also read about how he covorted with "Hanoi Jane" and Ramsey Clark.
The bottom line is this: They all distort the truth as best as they can, and its is truly a choice between the lesser of two evils, and has been for decades.
Thats why I haven't and will not vote.
And before you scream that tired rant about how I "don't vote, and I can't complain," too bad I still pay my share of taxes so that makes these two faced bastards MY employees, and I/ll bitch to my hearts content!
I can relate to Jeremiah's comments above. While I agree Iraq was a just cause their are many issues that I dislike Bush for. And that dislike started before he was elected. As a candidate for Pres. you should be able to name the head of a country (Pakistan) that just months before overthrew an elected Gov., whose intel Dept. aids and abets Osama, tested a nuclear weapon,and was/is embroiled in a decades old boarder war. Bush had no clue.
If you have deluded yourself into believing the current [Dim]ocratic candidates are any better, keep dreaming.
Here is an example, Kerry when out of his way to play the patriotic card during the last debate when asked a "hypothetical" question about a returning Military Vet throwing away "his" medals.
It turns out the question is based on a real event and Kerry continues to distort the truth about it.
The facts can be read here;
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/...20/
131219.shtml
You can also read about how he covorted with "Hanoi Jane" and Ramsey Clark.
The bottom line is this: They all distort the truth as best as they can, and its is truly a choice between the lesser of two evils, and has been for decades.
Thats why I haven't and will not vote.
And before you scream that tired rant about how I "don't vote, and I can't complain," too bad I still pay my share of taxes so that makes these two faced bastards MY employees, and I/ll bitch to my hearts content!
Psst. Cranial. Remember when Clinton was president? When we weren't at war? Remember the budget surplus? Remember the Bill of Rights? Remember when you, and most of your friends, were employed? Remember when the lies were about blowjobs? (Hint for the morally impaired: lies about the reasons for going to war and killing thousands and thousands of civilians, and 500 of our own soldiers, are worse than lies about blowjobs.)
OK, I didn't like NAFTA. Still don't. Did Clinton cozy up to big business some? Yes, he did. But he wasn't big business personified. A Dem will do fine. And if you aren't completely stupid, you had better fucking vote, and encourage all your friends to so so as well.
Because they're right. Not ALL of Islam is peaceful. The vast majority is, but a decent sized sub-section is not. And I think the LGF crowd wanted Bush to make that distinction. And they were right to ask him to do that.
And the US is peaceful? What is your definition of peaceful since the 10 or so wars in the past 100 years have left my peaceful soul on the doorstoop. We are goons, the US corpo-indus-military establishement needs to make sure that mcdonalds is safe in a beirut airport! As a matter of fact I see globalization as the only way to stop amerikkka from trying to take over the world militarily.
another point - the colonies/minutemen were terrorists in 1776 - that was good; the south were terrorists in 1861 - that was bad...my point - terrorism is just another word for nothing left to lose...terrorists have nothing left to lose you morons - this is why they are suicide bombers - nothing left to lose - not evil people - NOTHING LEFT TO LOSE!!!!!
we dont want your vote, the dems will win off the backs of the soccer-moms everywhere - this time they will pay attention and Rove's plans will fall apart.
Yes, the israelis routinely round up 6 million Arabs, send them to concentration camps and then gas them to death, making no distinction between men, women, and children.
And the Arabs did this to the Jews?
Newsmax. ahahahahahahahaha.
*snort*
From my article on household income:
During Clinton's 8 years:
Low income families (bottom 20%) increased their income by 15%,
High income families (top 20%) increased their income by 30%
2 to 1 ratio
During Reagan's 8 years:
Low income families increased their income by 2.5%,
High income families increased their income by 20%
8.3 to 1 ratio.
Both Bush reigns saw low income families take a greater hit than high income families, and Bush II isn't done yet.
Supply side economics were proven a failure during Reagan, and subsequently during Bush I's disastrous term. Bush II either hasn't learned or is stealing from the poor to give to the rich. Either way, he's not presidential material.
brace yourselves, for it's coming. yes, it's the 500th showing of the osama beard-lice and towel inspection!
Let's honor the principle of "first come first serve". Anti-war is just second thought from Kerry, who is now imitating Dean in lock steps. But Dean deserves all of the supports.
... it's time to stick a fork in George.
I don't want to sound a false note of optimism here, but I'm seeing the same thing from moderates and conservatives... I'm hearing from more and more people who say they have friends or family members who are just fed up with the Chimperor and won't be voting for him in '04.
Earth to everybody: it doesn't matter. They're going to rig the machines.
REPEAT: THEY'RE GOING TO RIG THE MACHINES.
A 52-48% victory for Unnamed Democrat can be easily fudged into a loss, and still look plausible.
The journalists who attempt to write about it will be dismissed by the Wurlitzer as "crackpots" and "conspiracy theorists".
I truly hope you all understand how hopelessly fatal to a democracy it is when its mainstream media (the "Fourth Estate") become a giant suck-up to power.
hmm, the PNAC gallery has been itching to invade Syria, especially since their excellent adventure in Iraq didn't fly so well. wonder where they're going to getthe troops for it though, we're already stretched to the breaking point without a draft
"wonder where they'regoing to get the troops for it". I don't; you gave the answer already.
But they'll wait till after the election, of course. Announcing a draft before the election would make for a spread even Diebold couldn't cover.
Atrios --
You don't seriously think they let the public decide who's "popular," do you? What kind of high school did you go to?
hmm, the PNAC gallery has been itching to invade Syria, especially since their excellent adventure in Iraq didn't fly so well. wonder where they're going to getthe troops for it though, we're already stretched to the breaking point without a draft
Gee, how are they going to pay for it? Syria doesn't even have oil!!!! lol.)
c
why do 78% of people polled think that BUsh will be re-elected when 47% of them don't want to see him get re-elected and only 44% of them do?
We need to get the word out: Bush is NOT popular! AND He lost the election (popular vote) also--so he should be expected to lose this one!
What I want to know is, who are the beings that control this clearly insane 44%?
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