HULK SMASH!!!
I think you meant to say 3 paragraphs, not 3 pages...
i know i know. only one cup of coffee today.
Irish coffee?
He's not even in jail and the guy's an Israeli. I'm sure these two facts are completely unrelated.
Weird story.
Before I read the link, I knew where the perp would be from. Assholes.
I hope this guy has ties with Cyril Kern (?), the south african who bribed Sharon.
That's gotta be wrong. America doesn't have nuclear weapons. That would make us part of the axis of evil.
The seven Americans killed in Afghanistan today were on page TWELVE of the Oregonian,which isn't even a conservative paper.
OT (sorry): Atrios, Georgia is considering a ban on using the word "evolution" in science classes: http://tinyurl.com/32nfp
Ah yes. There are those who are saying that those parts are payment for the Pakistani secret service's "assistance" in pulling off 9/11. Damned crazy conspiracy theorists!
Interesting how so many Israeli's get a pass, including the dozens of "art students" (aka: Mossad agents) milling around the WTC on 9/11, and then quickly deported after some brief questioning. Those crazy conspiracy theorists had a field day with that one!
Then there's the fact that the majority of PNAC's executive committee members have worked for Israel at one time or another, including Perle, Wolfowitz, Abrams, Feith, and Bolton. And of course, those crazy conspiracy people once again tried to insinuate that this bunch pushed the Iraq war for Israel! What will they think of next!
But can you imagine what would have happened if Joe Shmoe from Kansas, had been caught selling nuclear parts to Pakistan? Oh my. It would be Gitmo for sure, and if he were lucky, he might die on the plane flight there. But let an Israeli get caught, and, well, we better NOT piss off Israel now should we! It might cost Bush some of those AIPAC/JINSA/JDL votes, and bring their media friends down on him hard. Can't have that.
could someone please give a rational explantion as to why this is not a significantly newsworthy event?
weird dude may have fondled kid vs. someone diverts potential
new-cue-ler components to pakistan?
i am crying on the inside.
C'mon. These "nuclear triggers" are also used to break up kidney stones. Maybe...?
Yours in science,
C'mon. These "nuclear triggers" are also used to break up kidney stones. Maybe...?
Yours in science,
is it really that diffucult for the manufacturers of "kidney stone destroyers" to make their products unusable in nuclear weapons systems?
are kindey stones such a medical dillema that the only way to treat them is to create a product that also can be used to disintergrate human flesh on a massive scale?
yours in confusion,
cereal
"OT (sorry): Atrios, Georgia is considering a ban on using the word "evolution" in science classes."
Maybe not entirely OT. Word has it that the word "evolution" will be replaced by the phrase "methods of mass reproduction related program activities."
Not really, but why not?
thank you Jerome Dolittle, thank you Atrios
could someone please give a rational explantion as to why this is not a significantly newsworthy event?
There's several theories as to why it isn't:
1) Under the threshold -- you need to be selling 201 or more nuclear weapon detonators for it to be serious.
2) It's only serious if they're nuCUElar weapons detenators
3) It's from us, so it helps the GNP and the trade balance, cancelling out any security issues
4)He's staying with a rabbi, that's faith-based imprisonment right there -- what more do you want?
Why has the Bush administration farted away 3 years choosing not to see the threat posed by Pakistan's well-known casual attitude toward nuclear proliferation? Didn't this jerk take an oath about preserving, protecting, and defending?
Not to worry. Pakistan is "with us," not "against us."
I think you need to attach a lot of other things onto these detonators before they're much good at disintegrating human flesh on a massive scale.
The Freepers will no doubt call this a justifiable israeli action in defense of their country from enemies that would kill them?
MYOB'
.
Hornito, don't you know critizing Israelis automatically makes you an anti-semite!
Hornito, don't you know critizing Israelis automatically makes you an anti-semite!
could someone please give a rational explantion as to why this is not a significantly newsworthy event?
It's not "infotainment". Hey, at least it got into the paper at all, I've not even seen this story before now, and the original arrest happened some time ago, right?
The investigation has led to the discovery of a nuclear smuggling network that one official called this week "a hydra-headed monster with its tentacles all over the world."
Pakistani investigators are trying to trace the origins and history of "large amounts" of money found in a series of bank accounts spread across the Persian Gulf region. The bank accounts, they say, were used by middlemen from Germany, the Netherlands, South Africa, Sri Lanka and other countries who Iranian officials say sold them nuclear hardware and centrifuge designs in the late 1980's and early 1990's.
This sounds alot like another arms related program activity, Iran Contra.
Good god. More proof chimpy's been fiddling while rome burns.
Oliver, it's not really OT. (about Georgia) I was bitching about this last night. We're gonna raise a whole generation of ignorant kids if this conservative infiltration keeps up in the sciences and edumacation.
fuck fuck fuck.
"could someone please give a rational explantion as to why this is not a significantly newsworthy event?"
welllllllll
at the risk of sounding like a broken record, posters could email Dolittle's post and/or the Reuter's story to;
evening@cbsnews.com
nightly@nbc.com
nightline@abcnews.com
atc@npr.org
info@ap.org
onlinenewshour@newshour.org
and you local newspaper
"Hornito, don't you know critizing Israelis automatically makes you an anti-semite!"
Ah! Not in my case. I am a Jew, so the usual charge would be "self-hating Jew", whatever that is.
And frankly, the anti-Semite charge is over-used and tired. I love Israel, and it's people, but detest it's government and most of its current leaders. Sound familiar?
welllllllll
at the risk of sounding like a broken record, posters could email Dolittle's post and/or the Reuter's story to
Right, it's not like they have a Reuter's feed of their own.
And someone up there is wrong about Joe Schmoe going to Gitmo. If he's a wingnut Christian, he gets a pass also. Mohammed Schmoe on the other hand. . .
BTW whatever happened to the podiatrist who planned to blow up a mosque?
This is a non-story. Pakistan is our ally in the war against terrorism. They're the good guys. Nuclear weapons in the hands of the good guys are NOT WMD's.
Now if it were learned that Saddam had access to designs for constructing paper airplanes, THAT would be front page news.
My positive side tells me that conservatives will eventually screw their own selves and their cause with such things as this "evolution" ban. This is just the sort of thing that raises a big flag that says "Look! Idiots are trying to take over!"
Meanwhile, hey, look over there! It's Michael Jackson!
Hornito, sadly I do recognise this problem and it's not confined to the US. No doubt anti-Semitism exists in the US and Europe alike, but condemnation of some of the Israeli government's policies is not ipso facto anti-Semitism. Although, of course, it can be spun that way to get the moderates on-side with the hard-line hawks.
"This is a non-story. Pakistan is our ally in the war against terrorism. They're the good guys. Nuclear weapons in the hands of the good guys are NOT WMD's.
Now if it were learned that Saddam had access to designs for constructing paper airplanes, THAT would be front page news."
Beth
Good one!!!
sadam mak picher of rokit
And frankly, the anti-Semite charge is over-used and tired. I love Israel, and it's people, but detest it's government and most of its current leaders. Sound familiar?
Yeah, I do hate Vicente Fox!!
The detonators are known as Krytron Triggers. (Google for more info.)
Mark
After braggin about 4th quarter GDP growth (4%, down from estimates of 4.6%), Chimpy took a couple of questions today. He wound up getting a bit snippy.
Q Yes, sir, I do. Thanks, Mr. President. Senator McCain, David Kay, among many others, say it's time for an independent investigation into weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and intelligence. Why resist this kind of inquiry now, when your own weapons inspector says it's needed?
THE PRESIDENT: I want the American people to know that I, too, want to know the facts. I want to be able to compare what the Iraqi Survey Group has found with what we thought prior to going into Iraq.
[standard papp about how Saddam was an immin, er uh, growing threat, editied for brevity]
Karen.
Q Are you dead set against it?
THE PRESIDENT: Karen.
Q Ruling it out?
THE PRESIDENT: I want to know the facts. Karen.
Q Are you against the idea of a new --
THE PRESIDENT: Is this a follow up to Scott's question?
Q Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Let me repeat, I just -- let me repeat what I just said.
Q Okay.
THE PRESIDENT: I want to know the facts. And I want to know exactly -- I want to compare what the ISG finds with what we thought going in.
http://tinyurl.com/2mt3c
Hmph, I'll put this in the early running for "Biggest story totally ignored by the media this year."
Last year's winner of course was the people caught in Texas who were in posession of Chemical weapons on American soil, but because they weren't Muslim, they weren't noticed.
Maybe because Pakistan already has the bomb this isn't such a big deal to them? Maybe the media thinks that it's ok to ship nuclear materials to a country that already has them. Or maybe we're just ignoring it because Pakistan isn't one of those bad "Axis of evil" countries, and all they do is help proliferate.
wait, were those "weapons of mass destruction progam related activities" devices? can't be worried about those for at least another 3 months
THE PRESIDENT: I want to know the facts. Karen.
Here's the facts, Mr. Preznit, you're a fucking idiot who couldn't find his own ass even if your hands were superglued to it.
I'm so fed up with his idiodicy. He's really too stupid to live.
when will you libruls learn that, as per the Il Doctrtine, we Amurcans are not concerned with actual nukyularity. Imaginary, possible, and imminently related program potentialities, yes, but actual nukyular stuff, no. Besides, the Israeli was one of ours, not like his name's going to be Mohammad or something.
Krytons? They use those in photocopiers I believe.
Yours in science,
He's not even in jail and the guy's an Israeli. I'm sure these two facts are completely unrelated.
Weird story.
Alex | Email | Homepage | 01.30.04 - 1:12 pm | #
There’s some Israeli guy in South Africa sending nuke detonators to Pakistan?
Is this the global economy or what.
I know, I know, sorry, folks, it is all looking a little surreal to me.
C'mon. These "nuclear triggers" are also used to break up kidney stones. Maybe...?
Yours in science,
Craig in DC | Email | Homepage | 01.30.04 - 1:30 pm | #
Yeah, science, hoo sure, but aren’t these the same kidney stone buster switches that the Safire cuckoo guy regularly got his knickers in a twist when they went to Iraq.
It is looking sleazy and creepy, why the roundabout process and where were they going after Pakistan and why is the Israeli dude involved in this.
Clearly we have to know more, so where is Dah media on this.
.....
Anyone remember this?
"Israel-Hollywood nuclear connection"
They were dealing in Krytons also, presumably not for photocopiers though.
http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/606092.asp
WASHINGTON, Jan. 28 (Reuters) — A federal judge on Wednesday granted bail to Asher Karni, 50, an Israeli citizen accused by the United States government of conspiring to send 200 American-made nuclear weapons detonators to Pakistan, dealing a setback to prosecutors who argued he might try to flee.
So lemme get this, dude is hanging around in a Hebrew Sheltering Home with some measly 100K bail, Ayatollah Ashcroft, call your office.
Looks like clear issue of differential justice, one kind of justice for one kind of tewwowist, another kind of justice for another kind of tewwowist.
.....
Anyone remember this?
"Israel-Hollywood nuclear connection"
They were dealing in Krytons also, presumably not for photocopiers though.
http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/606092.asp
Why even have a WH press corps? If they're real lucky, every week or so they get to ask W a "couple a questions." What do they do the rest of the time? I always wanted a job watching grass grow, but this sounds like the next best thing.
four legs-
He wants to know the facts, just as he wanted to find the Plame leaker.
At least he's consistent.
Oh yeah and thanks and hi to Jerry Doolittle and Atrios for bringing it to folk’s attention.
.....
Evolution is not being used in Georgia, but devolution is mandatory.
My child is being kicked out of one of the "best" private schools in my city because he learns a little "different". Meaning, he is bored and rowdy. But more than one teacher has said "smartest kid I ever met" or "never met a kid like him." They almost crushed his spirit and I was paying these people $1000 a month to do it.
Now I feel I have a clue as to why African-Americans and other minorities are not doing "well" in school.
But, I have a plan. :> secret.
Atrios,
Get it together buddy. First you blame the gin, then you blame the coffee.
Don't you know what all the cool people are drinking? Jesus Juice!
Here's the facts, Mr. Preznit, you're a fucking idiot who couldn't find his own ass even if your hands were superglued to it.
For a split second, flg, before I scrolled down, I thought *Karen* actually said this. Wishful thinking, I know, and very funny.
Obviously, the fundie administration can't put this Israeli citizen in jail.
He has to be in Israel along with every other Jew on the planet, so that they can all be killed, and then Armageddon can happen and Tim LaHaye can finally finish writing those fucking books.
Is this story part of the fourth seal or the fifth seal?
I can never tell my seals apart?
I saw a pale presnit on a pale downer cow.
Oliver:
Evolution? Man and Dinasaurs Co-Existed, and the Good Book offers irrefutable scientific proof!
http://www.creationists.org/
dino...inos_Bible.html
Yours in "science,"
>I saw a pale presnit on a pale downer cow.
LMAO!
I heard the last part of a story on CNN this morning that said some school districts (?) were thinking of doing away with the honor roll.
Dumbing down, down, down.
CNN has a poll (of course) about the evolution question:
Should the word "evolution" be removed from the Georgia curriculum?
Yes 13% 18386 votes
No 87% 122300 votes
Here's the facts, Mr. Preznit, you're a fucking idiot who couldn't find his own ass even if your hands were superglued to it.
Now I know who the Chip reminds me of - Baldrick from the Black Adder series.
Flasheart: Ah! Tally ho, then! Back to the bar. You should join the Flying Corps, George. That's the way to fight a war. Tasty tuck, soft beds and a uniform so smart it's got a PhD from Cambridge.
[Flasheart gestures at Baldrick.]
Flasheart: You could even bring the breath monster here. Anyone can be a navigator if he can tell his arse from his elbow.
George: Well then, for goodness sake, Sir, why don't we join?
Baldrick: Yeah, be better than just sitting around here all day on our elbows.
National Education and Faith Dept. present:
Jesus and the DinoRiders.
I can see the korean cartoonists working on it right now.
"Dumbass Americans."
All roads lead to Rome, or in this case, Iran Contra, Adnan Khashoggi, BCCI and the October Surprise
If you read anything about these detonators and how they work please post it. I'm curious about this story because I know Nuclear watchdogs have been trying to get the Pak government to add [I forget the scientific term for this] fail-safe devices so they can abort any missile if it happens to be launched. These detonators may be what it needed.
Take that as a careless pass on the story if you like, but the Miami Herald reports this.
Court records say Karni used a series of front companies and misleading shipping documents to buy the devices from a Massachusetts company, have them sent through New Jersey to South Africa, then on to the United Arab Emirates and later to Pakistan. What Karni didn't know, a federal officer said in an affidavit, was that authorities had intervened and had the manufacturer sabotage the devices so they couldn't be used.
Miami Herald Story
Famous Moments in Faithbased DecisionMaking:
1519: Cortes meets Montezuma.
Montezuma follows his faith. And now he is history.
Let's play the "Six Degrees of Separation from the Bush Family" Game!
Karni was released on $75,000 bail. Who is the wealthy man who instructed his son-in-law to put up the bail money? Cecil Jowell.
Cecil Jowell is the brother of Neil Jowell.
Neil is Chairman of Trencor Ltd.
And Trencor recently raised $34 million, more than half of it coming from ... !The Carlyle Group
Shweeet! What prize do I win?
My 10 year old daughter threw me for a loop the other day when she asked out of the blue:
"Why doesn't the bible mention anything about dinosaurs?"
As Atrios says... Indeed!
I hope these weren't Acme detonators. Wile E. Coyote never could get them to work.
Maybe Warner Brothers has offshored chasing the roadrunner.
Beep. Beep.
BTW, does Lloyd Braun work for the George Department of Education?
Nametags for all New Yorkers!
The perfect metaphor for Bush's pathetic excuse of a presidency
http://tinyurl.com/2aoyv
Did a leaked version of the complete 12,000 page dossier from Iraq ever make it out into public?
It really makes you wonder what was in the 4,000 pages that Colin Powell censored from the UN Security Council.
Things like trading partners, arms merchants, banking, etc...
Christians have really merged with the "No Child Left Behind" thinking suppression program.
In case of Rapture please have two No. 2 pencils.
Gates of Heaven.
The earth is a) 7000 years old b) billions of years old.
If this is how they think their God wants them to act, they are dumber than I thought.
Did a leaked version of the complete 12,000 page dossier from Iraq ever make it out into public?
Don't know, but everytime the bAdministration says that Saddam defied Security Council I think about that dossier. Forchristsakes, Iraq submitted a detailed report, the jist of which was that they no longer had WMD. They even self-reported missiles that exceeded the range set by the UN, and allowed them to be destroyed. So how did he defy the UN?
So the guy's an Israeli Jew, too.
Wonder what the Mossad thinks of it? An end-timer, perhaps? Psychotic jewish zealot, like the Rabin assasin? Or an operative caught with his pants down? Or all of the above?
Jamie, these guys want global nuclear war. They think they can precipitate the Messiah, and make a little Calvinist cash, because you know, blessed are those that make obscene amounts of money.
Chances are, he was caught by the kind of CIA black ops the White House likes to out, 'cause they're actually trying to save the world.
I did not know about this. But I did know that last week Howard Dean yelled in Iowa. Caution: Media At Work
"Atrios,
Get it together buddy. First you blame the gin, then you blame the coffee.
Don't you know what all the cool people are drinking? Jesus Juice!
Magnum"
So where can I get some of that cool Jesus Juice?
(man-- that is fun to say-- jesus juice)
"could someone please give a rational explantion as to why this is not a significantly newsworthy event?"
Because it would call into question the motivations and underhanded dealings of our own "regime" with other governments who support terrorism. What good propaganda machine would ever report that?
Back on topic--
So how the hell did this Israeli get 200 American nuclear detonators anyway?!
I mean, I don't think they're selling these on E-bay. There's got to be more to this story.
"Jamie, these guys want global nuclear war. They think they can precipitate the Messiah, and make a little Calvinist cash, because you know, blessed are those that make obscene amounts of money."
Shorter neocon logic: There's plenty of jobs, just too many people!
I want to be able to compare what the Iraqi Survey Group has found with what we thought prior to going into Iraq.
Errr, Holden, I've never heard of the Iraqi Survey Group. (I'm sure it's just an oversight on my part ... but if I had to guess I'd say that it's Cheney, Wolfowitz and Bremer.) Can you tell me what he really means here?
Alex: I answered that question. He got them because it was a setup, or sting. Law enforcement was watching the sale and had the triggers disabled prior to shipment.
Story goes detonators were shipped from Massachusettes to S.A to UAE then to Pakistan.
There is not excuse for this story not getting attention. I'm checking wire queries that the press will use to get updates. This story would have to be purposely ignored.
I'm with TBONE.
Dean's yell was a significantly more newsworthy event then this. God Forbid, CNN or any other "NEWS" organization should sprout a pair and report this. But I forgot the now famous "Yawp" is what's really important.
BUCK FUSH
OT
From Moveon.org
The CBS network still refuses to run our winning ad in the Bush in 30 Seconds ad contest during the Super Bowl. The MoveOn.org non-partisan campaign to get CBS to air issue ads continues, but we're not going to let CBS's censorship stop us in the mean time. That's why we're spending over $1 million to air the ad in our swing states and nation-wide on other channels -- starting with two spots on CNN that will air during the Super Bowl half time.
This Sunday, during the Super Bowl half time show, join us in changing channels on CBS. At 8:10pm and 8:35pm EST, switch over to CNN to watch "Child's Pay" on a channel which doesn't censor its ads. We'd like to keep a tally of the number of people who participate -- you can sign up here:
The most depressing thing about the Creationist Educational Assault has to be the fact that factless Theology, essentially a purely subjective debate society without any evidence, poisons the mind when it is happily confused with Science. And this has real consequences. Our kids are dumbering at a time when third-worlders are actually starting to go back, when American industry, savaged by Friedmanian get-rich-quick-schemes and dismantled so China can have our guided missile industry. It's appearant these America-hating idiots think America is the hegemond because Gawd said so, not because of an industrial or manufacturing or educational base. Slowly but quite clearly these traitors are turning us into a third world banana republic:
-national glory from overblown, ineffectual military, not any other accomplishments
-inability of the government to meet basic infrastuctural needs
-heavy use of religion in explaining away inconvenient realities
-emphasis on passing official examinations rather than critical thinking
-emphasis on money-making career training rather than true liberal education
-mindless faith in the superiority of the Nation
-everyone wears burlap rags from Swedish food aid (well, not yet, but that irritating A+F crap is getting us there)
Damn haloscan is trying to undermine the General's message by putting his name on my comments.
Errr, Holden, I've never heard of the Iraqi Survey Group. (I'm sure it's just an oversight on my part ... but if I had to guess I'd say that it's Cheney, Wolfowitz and Bremer.) Can you tell me what he really means here?
Streaker
Streak-
Allow me to translate.
When the preznit says:
I want the American people to know that I, too, want to know the facts. I want to be able to compare what the Iraqi Survey Group has found with what we thought prior to going into Iraq.
How dare you question me? This is MY government and I will do with it whatever I damn well want to do with it, and you will like it or find yourself on a slow boat to GITMO!
"I answered that question. He got them because it was a setup, or sting. Law enforcement was watching the sale and had the triggers disabled prior to shipment."
Sorry I didn't catch the part about them being disabled...where did you get that? And while it did say Federal prosecutors filed the charges it doesn't say who did the investigation. Do you know?
I'm sure Bush will wail "All is well! All is weelllllll!" when asked about it.
Judging by his press "opportunity" today, Bush is morphing into the Kevin Bacon character from "Animal House" before our eyes.
time for tin foil
intel was red-face pissed about cheney presuming to talk to them, let alone demanding a sexing-up
intel was livid about plame
now tenet is brushing off his magical mystery super power (remember, kids? tenet already took a dive and paid not a dime for it) for a possibly career-fatal (to peasants only) scapegoating
could there be a "very british coup"? a careful yet surgical leak? could some reputable news service-maybe they'd have to go through Britain and take out Tony anyway-make clear to the onhanging cross-worshipping morons that Bush lied?
seriously doubt there could be another "failure" but do not doubt they are not happy with being shit-scrubber for a chimpanzee
This is MY government and I will do with it whatever I damn well want to do with it, and you will like it or find yourself on a slow boat to GITMO! Holden Caulfield
Okay, thanks. But he means that with whatever he says, no? Is there such a survey group -- or is he just funnin' us, knowing as we do that he's a people person and all?
Alex: well, I think you know how you get Jesus juice--just squeeze real hard...
Jamie: Very nice six degrees of separation sleuthing. I think I now know why this story didn't get much coverage. But remember, folks. This administration is going to ABOLISH terrorism.
I can't help out MoveOn with their happy plan; just like Judy Dean, I do not have cable teevee.
martha, there's a point.
I wonder if MoveOn have thought of doing a new competition for radio advertisements?
Jamie:
Good catches. Is it merely a coincidence that Trenstar (Trencor's US subsidiary) is located in Colorado - the same Colorado, I assume, where Mr Karni was vacationing when arrested?
Actually, they are available on eBay... what..oh. detonators, I thought this was about decantors. Never mind (RIP Rosanne Rosannadanna)
We need a new acronym: IOKIYAI - It's ok if you are Israeli.
Oh, I know, anti-semitism. But notice i didn't say it's ok if you are a Jew. It doesn't have a damn thing to do with ethnicity or religion. Israel is a country. And it's all about the country's policies.
Streaker, the ISG is, er, was headed by David Kay. It was made up of coaltion personnel, and its job was to uncover evidence of prewar Iraq's WMDs.
They didn't do a very good job, but I hear they did get to fight those pesky insurgents.
I think you need to attach a lot of other things onto these detonators before they're much good at disintegrating human flesh on a massive scale.
Yeah, but the detonators are one of the hardest parts to build. Plutonium bombs work by compressing the plutonium to critical mass with explosive lenses. If the detonators don't fire at EXACTLY the right time, you don't get the balanced compression all around that you need for the core to go critical -- all you have is plutonium scattered over the immediate area -- a dirty bomb -- major disappointment if you wanted a nuclear explosion.
an Israeli living in South Africa tried to sell American devices to Pakistan. the global marketplace is truly a wonderful thing.
OT from WaPo: Bushy and the chuclate factry:
"The pool was taken into the kitchen, where Bush was lounging against the conveyor belt, casually chatting with two workers who were calmly making peanut butter truffles. Bush pitched in, and sprinkled some crushed peanuts with his fingers.
(snip)
"Any time he wants a job, he can come back." co-owner Theresa Anderson told the paper.
Try him next year!
dubyamds -
Jeese, I hope he washed his hands first.
Mr Karni's business in Capetown has a useful webpage:
http://www.top-cape.com/
Some handy items include various avionic supplies, "military power supplies", guidance systems and other "hard to get" hardware. I wonder what interesting things you could make with all of that?
Likud is to Jew as Wepublican is to Christian.
Good point, Tena.
"could someone please give a rational explantion as to why this is not a significantly newsworthy event?"
Warning: sarcasm follows.
Well, they were detonators. Made for disposing of Nukylar weapons. Pakistan having them would be a GOOD thing. Then they could help rid the world of sum dem nasty weapons.
Hell, there are lots of places we could dispose of some of our own weapons. Then we could have one them cataclysmical type events them ebolutionarists keep talkin about that cause big changes. Could settle this issue oncet and fer all.
Hmm.
Weapons of Mass Destruction Related Program Activies vs. Active Programs Related to the Mass Destruction of Weapons
sagesource,
it's much easier to build a U-235 bomb than a plutonium bomb. To get plutonium into critical mass, you need to put it at the centre of an implosion, which is created by extremely precisely placed and shaped plastic explosive, which are detonated with extremely precise timing. Knowing how to shape the explosive, and then positioning it, is most of the problem.
To get U-235 into critical reaction, you only need to collide two hemispherical chunks of it into a sphere at something like the speed of sound (so you need to build a crude cannon).
To create plutonium, you need to have moderately-enriched uranium (20% U-235 - naturally occurring uranium is about 3% U-235, the vast majority of the rest is U-238, otherwise known as depleted uranium), and then you need to be able to get it into a controlled, non-critical nuclear reaction. Some of the U-238 is converted to plutonium (when it absorbs alpha particles which are released when U-235 undergoes fission) then you need to chemically refine out the plutonium.
To build a U-235 bomb, you need highly-enriched, or at least 95%, preferably 97% U-235.
Why is it that whenever I hear the words "Middle Eastern" I know that they're talking about an Israeli (though it sounds like it'd be an Arab)?
Why in the hell can't they just call an Israeli an Israeli, rather than playing these games?
Actually, Thurber Hamm, the NYTimes article did do that:
WASHINGTON, Jan. 28 (Reuters) — A federal judge on Wednesday granted bail to Asher Karni, 50, an Israeli citizen accused by the United States government of conspiring to send 200 American-made nuclear weapons detonators to Pakistan, dealing a setback to prosecutors who argued he might try to flee.
kelley b. - thank you.
Here's the story in its entirety:
Bail for Suspect
WASHINGTON, Jan. 28 (Reuters) — A federal judge on Wednesday granted bail to Asher Karni, 50, an Israeli citizen accused by the United States government of conspiring to send 200 American-made nuclear weapons detonators to Pakistan, dealing a setback to prosecutors who argued he might try to flee.
Judge Thomas Hogan said Mr. Karni must remain in home detention at the Hebrew Sheltering Home in nearby Silver Spring, Md., and wear a monitoring device.
In addition to the $75,000 bond posted on his behalf by another individual, Mr. Karni also must commit $100,000 of his own money, he said.
Frankly, I think you are a bit off-base over your outrage on this one. There are assholes of all nationalities. Supposedly in this country we are all innocent until proven guilty. Even Israelis.
Considering the larger implications of the story to which this was attached, which discusses a major international scientific black market in nuclear materials, with the bulk of the investigation focusing on the Pakistanis, this is small potatoes.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/2...sia/
29STAN.html
Magnum wrote,
To get U-235 into critical reaction, you only need to collide two hemispherical chunks of it into a sphere at something like the speed of sound (so you need to build a crude cannon).
At least for the Hiroshima bomb, which was a uranium gun-type bomb, the supercritical mass consisted of a plug that fit into a hollow cylinder, not two hemispheres. But maybe they've changed the design since then...
Wishful thinking, I know, and very funny.
The level of snark and vitriol didn't immediately give me away? And god forbid that a reporter would ever speak up and say the damned truth.
Guess that's why no one will ever let me be a white house press reporter. Press secretaries would be dropping like flies from the heart attacks I'd be givin'em. HA.
preznit no giv four legs good turkee
About that chocolate facturie thing... did bush ask to see Willy WOnka while he was there?
pie, I really don't like turkee too much. Good thing, huh? 
What about ribs?
"Why in the hell can't they just call an Israeli an Israeli, rather than playing these games?"
Didn't you know that it's anti-Semitic to call an Israeli, an Isreli now? Just ask AIPAC, or JDL. Can't have any bad press about Jews or Israelis in the American press now can we?!
It's anti-Semitic to mention Israelis in the news-- unless they've been blown up by Palestinians.
Oh Jesus, Jesus, please save me.
I've just been directed to the CNN transcript of Wolf Blitzer (whore) interviewing Joe Conason and Frank Gaffney, who's from the Centre for Security Policy.
Joe rips into the other two.
As one would expect.
Joe asks, "why wouldn't we have continued inspections rather than going to war and getting our kids killed there?"
Gaffney replies, "Because we wouldn't have found what was there."
Joe: "There isn't anything there."
Gaffney: "Even with the weapons of mass destruction reduction programs that he says were there."
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Weapons of mass destruction reduction programs.
So that's what happened. Saddam was running weapons of mass destruction reduction programs.
That is the goddamn funniest thing I've heard. That is absurd. That knocks the shit out of "Saddam's scientists lied to him" theory. Christ on a windmill, if I knew that Saddam was running Weapons of Mass Destruction Reduction programs even I would have agreed to nuke his arse.
Damn.
"Weapons of mass destruction reduction programs."
-Is that like Jenny Craig?
pie, ribs are tasty and apparently helpful to the economy as well.
~A~: I linked to the story. My information comes from AP reporter Matt Kelly.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/
news...ggling_arrest_1
Well, we did find WMD in East Texas
http://news.mysanantonio.com/sto...180&
xlc=1112145
Not exactly headline news in the NYT, like, say Clark's sweater or Dean's pep rally. Retards.
I cannot take any more. You guys are KILLING ME.
The most hilarious posts in here have convinced me that a helluva lot of great standup comedians are spending way too much time on Atrios' comments boards. It must be true.
I mean it, guys. Hilarious. Absolutely hilarious!
Later,
Gotta do something with our time, DaddyO.
Jobless recovery and all that.
It beats selling kidney detonators to Iran.
lol mothra.
i really need to reread DOUBLESPEAK.
Shweeet! What prize do I win?
Jamie | Email | Homepage | 01.30.04 - 2:49 pm | #
Thanks for the links, Jamie.
From Jamie’s excellent links above, scroll up and click the one saying Cecil Jowell
*****The Israeli citizen living in South Africa, vacationing in Colorado, was arrested at DIA Jan. 2 for allegedly sending "triggered spark gaps," which can detonate nuclear weapons, to Pakistan, the country recently revealed as the prime suspect in the dissemination of nuclear weapons to Libya, Iran and North Korea.*****
*****Within five days after his first hearing, Jan. 7, Karni's friends had found him an effective lawyer; a sizable cash bail; a Denver support system consisting of two rabbis and one rebbetzin; a rabbi in Maryland (near his scheduled trial in Washington, DC) willing to provide him a home and job during his trial; a large number of written character references for the court; another rabbi who flew from across the ocean to provide a personal character reference; and a handful of supporters to appear in the Denver courtroom.*****
Honey, don’t this sound awful like aiding and abetting an Enemy Combatant, gee, I thought Unka Bush said we weren’t supposed to feed them or clothe them or nothing, right.
Didn’t Unka Bush say they should be locked up in a brig or something without a lawyer.
.....
Let's play the "Six Degrees of Separation from the Bush Family" Game!
Karni was released on $75,000 bail. Who is the wealthy man who instructed his son-in-law to put up the bail money? Cecil Jowell.
Cecil Jowell is the brother of Neil Jowell.
Neil is Chairman of Trencor Ltd.
And Trencor recently raised $34 million, more than half of it coming from ... !The Carlyle Group
Shweeet! What prize do I win?
Jamie | Email | Homepage | 01.30.04 - 2:49 pm | #
Omigoodness, honey, you mean there are all these upstanding people with connections to Unka Bush’s family, are they all aiding and abetting an Enemy Combatant.
Again, from the Cecil Jowell link in Jamie’s post above.
*****David L. Cohen, an accountant in Cape Town; S. Kahn, director, director of The Belmont, a hotel in Sea Point, South Africa; Roydon L. Sacks, Cape Town; Rabbi Jonathan Altman, who identified Karni as Reverend and Assistant Rabbi of his congregation, Beit Midrash Morasha; R. S. Schur, chair of the congregation; Owen Kevin Futeran, member of the Jewish Board of Deputies, South Africa; Alan Schur, professor of radiology, who wrote, "In my position as Chairman of a large University Hospital Department, I am often asked to vouch for the integrity of various people, and I do not recall ever having been more convinced of the integrity of an individual than I am of the integrity of Mr. Karni"; Douglas Ziman, Stellenbosch, South Africa, who wrote, " . . . he would never take any action, which might harm any democracy anywhere in the world"; and Bernard and Dunn Rabinowitz, who wrote, "Our intuitive feeling is that there has been a terrible mistake made somewhere in the matter between Asher Karni and the alleged con- travention."*****
Hmmm, gee, folks, selling nuke detonators could conceivably harm a few democracies, doncher think.
.....
The CBC put together an excellent analysis of what's known as opposed to what's speculated about 9-11 for nationawide Canadian broadcast.
Bush has plenty to hide.
Check out
http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/conspira...ries/
index.html
The CBC put together an excellent analysis of what's known as opposed to what's speculated about 9-11 for nationawide Canadian broadcast.
Bush has plenty to hide.
Check out
http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/conspira...ries/
index.html
kelley b. | Email | Homepage | 01.31.04 - 1:05 pm | #
Thanks for the links, kelley, lot of stuff there, it may take some time to review.
What I am concerned about right now is why are the Bushies resisting extension of the 9.11 commission and what is behind their2 cuteness by half with releasing the August 2001 memos?
Why only 3 members of the commission allowed to see them, then supposedly they are supposed to make notes of the memos, then the notes are to be reviewed by Bushies, and only then can the other members see the notes, they still don’t get the memos.
And right now, supposedly, even the notes on the memos are being sat upon by the Bushies, what is going on.
.....
I have my opinions.
Check out the CBC links, and you will too.
Most of the regulars here have their tinfoil hats surgically implanted in their skulls, MinnieB9. They've seen the data. It points to the Bush crime family being intimate with the very forces they purport to be fighting.
Their motivations? It may be solely for profit. It may be their fundamentalist beliefs. Most likely it is an irrational and dangerous combination of both.
Although most of us have our favorite presidential candidates, it is why most of us will vote for anyone with a good chance of defeating Bush.
This man and his associates are simply too dangerous for this country and the world to remain in control here.
Sounds like a double sting that got its signals crossed. For over a decade, Israel has considered the Pakistani nuclear program one of its gravest strategic threats. I would not be suprised if the Mossad was running dozens of front companies so that it could play a major role, enabling it to monitor and sabatoge the process.
Well, Rebbe Yudel, this story is still engaging me, maybe the speculative Mossad cover story is valid or maybe not, all that can be presented in due course when the dude has his day in court, but critical issue is the dude Will have his day in court, he does have a lawyer, Jose Padilla does not have those rights.
Basically the dude fits the Enemy Combatant profile and are we gonna have one law of the land or are we gonna have make it up as we go along law of the land, that is the bottom line.
Second bottom line is same folks that hollerate and carry on about Bushies needing to have the right to lock up Americans without a lawyer now appear to be hilariously silent.
Of course, this silence could cramp their style for any future harrumphs, but some folks don’t seem to have any qualms about double standards, the Safire dude, upholder of the Constitution, the NYT and Wen Ho Lee come to mind. Of late, Safire has been making some noises about Bushie’s over-reach but I can’t recall if he took any position on Jose Padilla or not and I haven’t seen the WP call for this Israeli dude to be declared an Enemy Combatant and sent to the ole brig without a lawyer, so it definitely looks like a double standard.
Even more hilarious was them prominent citizens and regular folks chuckling and chortling over how quickly they got help to the dude and falling over themselves to minimize the significance of selling nukular switches to the Pakistan dudes, which left to themselves, gee, anybody can see, in several nifty scenarios can be very risky bidness for democracies indeed.
So how it looks from here is that there are huge questions and concerns raised by this Israeli dude being arrested for selling switches to the Pakistani dudes and the subsequent management of his arrest and court processes.
Bottom line folks feel is either pull Jose Padilla out of the brig or chuck this dude in, there is no reason to have parallel systems of justice, making it up as they go along. Maybe Jose Padilla has his own Mossad cover story too, we’ll not find out, will we, till we get to hear from him and till Ashcroft and Bush have to tell him what the charges are against him.
.....
Nifty home-page Rebbe, love the URL.
.....
Cereal breath, I grok what you are saying about the civil rights though, this thread has been pretty hilarious but of course it does not over-ride the deep sense of concern that folks have over the stomping of the civil rights by the Bushies or the way rightie folks have been twisting themselves into a pretzel to show why it is perfectly a-ok to hold Americans without a lawyer and bogus arguments they have, especially when they are hilariously silent now.
Folks are already pretty worked up at the range of different responses the Bushies have given to the battlefield combatants, Johnny Taliban being treated different from Mr. Hamdi for instance and as an aside, there are also huge issues why the photo repeatedly shown of Mr. Hamdi is pretty decrepit and only serves to downgrade his basic human rights imho.
I have no problem if they say he is a battlefield detainee like Johnny Taliban, give him a lawyer, process him, convict him and lock him up for as long as they locked up Johnny, what folks object to is different strokes for different folks and what looks like depersonalization by depiction in decrepit conditions.
It is also pretty chaotic that Bushies seem to feel no compunction that they have to show cause and it is weird when people like the WP who should be upholding the Constitution or speaking up for them, twist themselves into a pretzel to try to justify the Bushie’s stomping on civil rights.
Be that as it may a much more clear cut case is present for Jose Padilla and it is simply appalling that his lawyers have not been able to get access to him and even more appalling is the Bushie’s dancing around and 2 cuteness by half and what I would really think is significant, if that now that this Israeli dude’s case has come up.
Hilarity aside, which was a pleasant respite from so much serious stuff, all those upstanding community members who were carrying on about how quickly they got help to Asher Karni, folks, I don’t know Jose Padilla, but he is in similar straits as well, and what I would like to see is for community involvement in getting him a fair trial as well, thank you.
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