HULK SMASH!!!
Like I really fucking care whether John Kerry uses botox.
Must be a slow day at the Jackson trial. Not like there's, you know, a war going on or an election campaign or anything else going on that's, you know, important.
Kerry Leads Lieberman in Connecticut!
Joe, it's time for you to go.
Tell me when he renounces Skull & Bones.
Then tell me when he renounces his participation in an illegal vote for an illegal war.
Not to mention the other important news that's not happening, like the WH didn't out a CIA agent, or that the Bush regime isn't stonewalling the 9/11 investigation or we're about to have our democracy stolen by black-box voting.
Let me be one of the first feeble voices to say: you are exactly right.
Kerry and the Crucifixion- What was his role? He denies involvement, but fails to note...
and that's where Nedra takes over.
Michael Jackson and botox - he denies...oh, what the hell.
Kerry should ask the same question of Judy Woodruff or Paula Zahn next time he's on...
Kerry Admits to Being a Member of the Human Race--Claims to Have Not Mentioned This Hidden Fact Before Because He Thought It Wasn't Important...HAH!
It doesn't matter whether politically savvy people care that Kerry uses botox. It's about how this will play in the media and what the old fashioned JoeSixpack-types in the South and Midwest think.
Personally, I do care. It shows that he's vain and shallow, and that he's a liar for pretending to not do it. But again, it doesn't matter what I think.
Bush and Unaccountability - He Denies It.
why, why, WHY is the Kerry-botox story more than a one-day deal? I mean, WTF? Can the SCLM get any more irrelevant and trivial?
Hello, WH 'ho? You got some 'splainin' to do on behalf of your profession.
Carl, you ARE being sarcastic... aren't you?
Try:
Kerry says Bush was wrong to take America for war
But he voited for it.
Kerry says he would roll back the tax cuts for the wealthy,
but he voted for them.
Kerry says the Patriot Act goes to far,
But he voted for it.
Kerry says "No Child Left Behind" is a failed program,
but he voted for it.
Botox is the least of his (our) worries.
Speaking of cannibilism--
http://tinyurl.com/29vm4
Uh, if Kerry used botox he should ask for a refund.
Now John Edwards, there's a suspicously unwrinkled face...
Hey, I said a few days ago that Kerry was going to be dogged by this botox thing.
It simply plays too well into Kerry's narrative. He's an "elite rich Massachusets Liberal". Of course he uses botox, just like he drinks coffee and has 800 dollar haircuts.
It doesn't have to be true. It's believable, and it will dog him.
Of course, worse for Kerry, he does look like he's had it, and even worse was that when he first heard the rumor, his response sounded like a "I've never heard of Botox".
Which now means he's a rich liberal elite who uses Botox then lies about it.
It doesn't have to be true. It just has to fit.
"Bush and Desertion - He denies it."
"Cheney and Pedophilia - He denies it"
"Powell and a inflated ego - He denies it"
"Dean and divine inspiration - He denies it"
What I really want to know is, is John Kerry really made of wood?
CNN.com headline: Bush says he too wants facts on WMD intelligence.
Actual story: Bush refuses to endorse an independant investigation, but still "wants to know the facts."
Oh that liberal media.
hey dogbreath-
those are all reasons why I'm not at all enthusiastic about Kerry as our nominee.
Business as usual. Like Clinton but with less balls to stand up occasionally for the 'true' left.
CNN.com headline: Bush says he too wants facts on WMD intelligence.
Actual story: Bush refuses to endorse an independant investigation, but still "wants to know the facts."
Oh that liberal media.
Yes, the first of a long line of smears yet to come. I love it when the TV airhead whores get all huffy and shit when someone has the temerity to attack W. They sit there with this stunned expression on their faces, as if they can't believe what they're hearing.
As PJ O'Rourke has said, nothing indicts like a denial.
No, the story is "George Bush and Cocaine Addiction - no comment yet."
should be "independent."
Bush wants to know the facts on the WMD... so he can know how best to hide them and discredit the sources before the rest of us know.
They're going to blame it all on the CIA and intelligence... as if they didn't demand that the CIA give them what they needed to support their decision to go to war. In fact it's already happening.
Which might be a good thing, if they piss off the spooks in time for them to strike back before the election.
Sean Hannity was talking about the botox just a few minutes ago on his radio show. He said he wouldn't have a problem if that was what some men do but wouldn't do it himself or have his nails manicured either.
Coalition of the unwilling?
A hard-line Islamic coalition warned Friday that Pakistani tribesmen might open fire on American troops if the United States extends a planned spring offensive against Afghan rebels into Pakistan.
Such a move would be a ``historic mistake,'' said Riaz Durrani, spokesman for the opposition coalition Mutahida Majlis-e-Amal, which controls two Pakistani provinces bordering Afghanistan.
I just hope that whenever Kerry or any candidate runs into these kind of accusations they look their acuser right in the eye and laugh. Let THEM be embarrased on TV for change.
So the machine that smeared Clinton from day one is already cranked up. Botox, blue dress, Whitewater, futures trading... the content doesn't matter.
This whole business needs to be confronted by someone who has the cohones to say, "Our soldiers are being killed and you want to know about Botox?" or "Do you happen to know how and where this story originated?"
I think Kerry should make a big poster of the Drudge page and carry it around with him and just point to it, because the next slur is just around the corner.
"Try:
Kerry says Bush was wrong to take America for war
But he voited for it.
Kerry says he would roll back the tax cuts for the wealthy,
but he voted for them.
Kerry says the Patriot Act goes to far,
But he voted for it.
Kerry says "No Child Left Behind" is a failed program,
but he voted for it.
Botox is the least of his (our) worries.
dogbreath"
And also, Hannity was saying that Kerry was more liberal than Ted Kennedy.
We, if I can be forgiven for that bit of unctuousity, may lose the trolls, but we won't lose Woot too will we?
I know I shouldn't admit to having watched this on TV last night, but Deborah Norville made some pandering closing comment on whatever her new show is, about the Kerry-Botox thing, introducing the news story and THEN blathering on and on about how unimportant it was...like she has way too much journalistic integrity to even treat it as newsworthy (except of course SHE'S the one who brought it up.)
Personally, I think he did use Botox. But I don't know. And I don't care. He's got a right. But he STILL voted for IWR and Patriot Act - how do you botox yourself out of those?
Hey, I said a few days ago that Kerry was going to be dogged by this botox thing.
It simply plays too well into Kerry's narrative. He's an "elite rich Massachusets Liberal". Of course he uses botox, just like he drinks coffee and has 800 dollar haircuts.
It doesn't have to be true. It's believable, and it will dog him.
Of course, worse for Kerry, he does look like he's had it, and even worse was that when he first heard the rumor, his response sounded like a "I've never heard of Botox".
Which now means he's a rich liberal elite who uses Botox then lies about it.
It doesn't have to be true. It just has to fit.
Irony: A new wrinkle to the Kerry story is botox.
***
Damn Kerry for falling into the SCLM trap. It's irrelevant whether or not he used botox. By denying it he's falling into the trap.
His response should be: "What kind of question is that? Did you ask Bush about wearing makeup or dying his hair?'
Attack, attack, attack. Never ever let them define the rules of the game, or you're toast.
"Santorum on dog -- he denies it." ("It wasn't a dog, it was my bee-atch.")
Hannity probably wears more makeup in an hour on TV than most "real men" ever will in their LIVES.
He's a tool. Why do you listen to/watch him?
Kerry should have admitted it, if true. Said, yes, it makes my wife happy or some such shit. Got a problem with it? No? Good, let's move on to what's really important to America. Or, if not true, denied it and laughed in the face of whoever brings it up "No, but the fact that you're obsessed about this tells me, and the voters, that you don't care about what's important to America. I do, here's why..."
The fact that he didn't, to me, says the following:
He's too calculating, trying to figure out what he SHOULD say, rather than what the truth is.
He had it, and doesn't want to admit it. Too late, you get one chance to admit you're wrong in this biz.
He is SLOW. This story should never have grown legs. They should have been able to knife it early on. I saw it coming a mile away, why didn't they?
Can't hear this story without recalling the SNL "ad" for botox that ended with Winona Ryder and the other women drooling out of paralyzed faces.
I'm liking Kerry less and less, but it's because of the issues, not whether he ever used botox. Next they'll say he was in cohoots with Saddam because of that vial found in that Iraqi scientist's frig.
Sheesh!
How bored are these reporters?
I can't believe that while you're sitting on the bus/plane you couldn't find something more relevant to report about.
So, the speculation that bored folks do watching the pavement roll by has now risen to the level of headline making news.
Unf*ing real.
I give up.
The whisper campaign will never end on this - every time Kerry looks haggard, or dull, some asshat will make a crack about "Botox", or "it looks like Kerry's stopped injecting it into his face, and he's just drinking it straight now!"
When we reach the point where rumors invented out of thin air get serious multi-day coverage by the supposedly liberal supposedly objective media, America is really in uncharted territory. Uncharted since the Gilded Age, that is.
On a related note, can we allege Bush went to the emergency room for getting a gerbil wrapped in duct tape caught up his ass? Oh, wait...
At least this puts the lie to the meme that "Kerry's the one Rove wants". If they'll do this type of crap to Kerry, by that logic, doesn't it mean they want Dean now? I think Rove's just covering all his bases.
Given Bush's creeping unfavorables and his serious unfavorables on the economy (54% and climbing, it's his weakest issue), having a candidate who presents no tradeoff in security issues puts the spotlight squarely on Bush's handling of the economy, exactly where he least wants it (especially if a VP nom Edwards is doing the talking).
Clinton lies about a BJ and gets impeached.
Kerry lies about using botox and it's a huge story.
Bush lies us into a war, lies about tax cuts, lies about being a deserter, and what do we get? Stories about Kerry and botox.
gack.
What about Kerry's Dirty Tricks-He Denies Them (here's the story courtesy of Kos)? Of course, he really hasn't had to deny them, since nobody's bothered to ask.
Here is the problem with Botox. He looks like he's had it. His wife has it & enthousiastically reccomend it, so he has access to it & the money to do it. If he has it, its no big deal to admit it, but if he has it & lies about it, it does make him look vain & shallow & a liar like GWB.
If he doesn't have it, why didn't he just say no? Instead, he says in January 2004 that he has never heard of botox at all! So, where was he in June 2003 when his wife with a Kerry handler present (Chris Black I believe) gave an interview to Elle magazine & other media outlets enthousing about botox. If he hadn't heard about botox tbefore, he surely had by then. Unless, he never reads the papers like GWB and/or his handler never told him what Teresa was talking about in her interviews. Google Teresa Heinz Kerry & botox. See how many hits you get & see if you believe that Kerry never heard of botox until January.
I know the war & taxes & other stuff are really important, but this is the kind of thing the media gloms onto. Can't you imagine how much fun Margeret Carlson will have with botox?
Personally, I do care.
Wotta maroon...
"Bush on Gerbil -- He denies it"
The botox thing is hilarious for several reasons, not least of which is Kerry's hideous Frankenstien face. If he does use the stuff, fat lot of good it's done him.
In the meantime, this little eventuality - i.e. the media blowing up petty shit (even if it's not true) into scandal worthy material now that they've got their sights set on Kerry - was as predictable as the sun rising in the morning. Let's see how well "Mr. Electability" does now that he's the front runner.
"botox, isnt that what they found in that 10-year-old vial in a freezer in Iraq?"
Ann says that Kerry is a Gigolo.
Putting aside the fact that Ann's extensive experience hiring male escorts (after working as one for several years), one of the many whoppers in her columns desrs Picklering.
When Ann says:
I note that when George Bush directed that precise phrase ["Bring 'em on!"]at Islamic terrorists who yearn to slaughter American women and children, liberals were enraged at the macho posturing of it.
she fails to mention that the preznit directed his signature phrase at Iraqi's intent on resisting occupation by killing US Soldiers, not "American women and children".
Hello, gropenfurher? Don't remember anybody talking about that.
...but you have to admit something happened.
He looked sort of like a worse version of the Jackson picture on the $20 before. Now just sort of like an emaciated Droopy Dog.
Sunken sockets don't just disappear overnight, especially on the campaign trail 24/7.
I think there is a story here- Kerry's politics are like his face- what you see today isn't what was there up until two weeks ago.
Kerry molested children? That sonofabitch!
Should help him in Arizona, however.
Someone should suggest that botox made Bush say the other day that Saddam wasn't allowing inspectors in ... when in fact they were on the ground when Chimpy's bombers hoved into view.
Then the media might enthusiastically explore how a leader with that poor a grip on hard facts dealt with nuanced WMD intelligence, and whether he hyped it to suit a political agenda. (The hoes might also ask themselves why they keep presenting such an idiot as our only hope for a secure homeland.)
Monkey - can't agree with your conclusions.
Kerry's people categorically denied this the second it came out, and did so again today, making the exact same point you did--I believe the quote was, "with a $500 billion deficit and a war in Iraq, I can't believe that you think this is a wortwhile issue."
Kerry denied it somewhat ambiguously to reporters yesterday and more clearly today.
However, I think this underlines one point he's going to have to learn: if your spokesman denies it, it stays in the news cycle. Part of the problem is, it's ridiculous for him to issue a statement denying this type of thing, so it has to come in response to a journalist's question. Kerry's campaign should try to prompt some journo to ask him on the trail, that way he can deny it. He can even throw in a pithy response, something like,
"No.
I did, however, get breast implants. Next question?"
This reminds me of the LBJ anecdote. He started a rumor that his political opponent had an illegitimate child.
"I know it's not true," LBJ reportedly said. "But I want to seem him DENY it!"
It still works that way.
Personally, I'm glad this crap is starting now. I have serious doubts about how well Kerry will respond to the shitstorm. If he fails now, the Dems will have plenty of time to nominate someone else. Bring it on! 
Let's see how well "Mr. Electability" does now that he's the front runner.
I'm not a big Kerry fan, but I hate what the media did to Dean and I don't wish it on any other Democratic candidate. It's sickening to watch them maul these guys while they give Bushco a complete free pass.
Diebold, ESS and Sequoia Voting are conspriring to steal our elections and these clowns talk about botox.
Didn't some lib' pol in 'Old Europe' lose a lot of support just prior to an election because his hair stylist outed him for dying his hair? There, it wasn't that they were disappointed in him for being so vain, it was that he was previously confronted with the allegation and denied it.
As a Dean supporter whose candidate was undone largely by the media uproar over one animated sppech, I can't say I'm too distraught to see John Kerry get this treatment. The media treatment, that is.
FWIW worth, Silvio Berlusconi went away for a month, then showed up again and looked significantly less wrinkled and the bags under his eyes were gone...
The dude had something done: look at these (independently researched) before and after shots. He's giving his megawatt-politician smile in each. Before, his eyebrows would rise at 45 degree angles, and now, they don't rise at all. Unless the man has grown superhuman control of his facial muscles, that sounds like botox.
No big deal. And it wouldn't have been except for the blanket denial. Schroder's hair in Germany was an election issue. Gore's suits were an eleciton issue. What made Kerry think this wouldn't be an election issue?
I'm not a big Kerry fan, but I hate what the media did to Dean and I don't wish it on any other Democratic candidate. It's sickening to watch them maul these guys while they give Bushco a complete free pass.
Semper Ubi
Couldn't agree more. The only thing worse than watching the media and the Thugs snipe at dem candidates is watching the dems themselves do it.
You don't like Kerry? Fine. How about telling us who you do like, and why. Don't be a DINO.
Bush lies? - He denies it
I think there is a story here...
I'd like to thank the boilerroom denizens for making their identification so easy. Saves a lot of time!
Does the botox allegation matter? Not much.
However, since Kerry is (or was ) able to arch his eyebrows in such a freakish way that it looked like completely open drawbridge on his brow, there is an easy way for him to deny using botox.
If he hasn't used it, open the drawbridge.
If he has used it, his forehead ain't gonna move.
But, Kerry looks "presidential". Why he even said so in the debates last night. So if he is so caught up in how he looks, keep it superficial, Kerry and you'll get more botox questions.
I'm for Santorum-on-dog
George Bush and cocaine; He denies it.
Oops!
I forgot. He didn't deny it.
if kerry had botox, then it didn't work.
just saw him at a fundraiser. he looks completely au naturel.
Bush and sock in flightsuit? He denies it.
Cheney and Heart? He denies it.
Money, cigarettes and legal booze, the only difference between junior high and CNN Center.
Bush and lieing to the public about the threat from Iraq- he denied it.
Oops!
I forgot. He didn't deny it!
"No botox. A penile enlargement, but no botox."
::cue smiling Teresa Heinz Kerry::
Kerry swung 30 points upward in the polls because of Dean's scream, perhaps he will crash 30 points downward because of Botox. Would it really be all that surprising?
He should have consulted the Arnis. Plastic surgery is the way to go. Botox has a distinctly feminine connotation in the public mind. Just what a northeastern liberal needs.
Kerry may keep himself afloat long enough to smother Dean, given the short time line designed to accomplish just what we are seeing happening. But when he falls, he is going down like a rock.
What are the Kerry images: Mass. Liberal, Ted Kennedy, gun control, $100 haircuts, Botox, boring, stiff, 'Senator', bush supporter on the key votes (another spineless dem).
Every time we run a guy like this, he loses. There is no appeal to the base or to the key swing state voters. He's got the dem machinery behind him, which always manages to snag the nomination (as josh marshall noted some months back). That machine alone will not be enough in the GE.
Bofuckingtox? You have GOT to be kidding. You know, in Germany, they had a similar rash of stupidity over Gerhardt Schroder's hair and whether he dyes it or not.
Bush wants facts on WMD intelligence now? Isn't it just a little late?
renato, I hope the spooks rig the Diebold machines ... but in our favor! Imagine the pundits' shock when out of nowhere emerges a new president for a new age ... President Scooter!
A.
Kerry, botox... yawn.
How about more of my Gaggle Obsession?
The Set-up
Q Did the President try to check with his own actuaries, his own estimators, did the President try to check with them in November, to see if maybe this would cost more than what the CBO estimated?
MR. McCLELLAN: Again, the President was briefed on this recently, just in the last two weeks. And that's when this estimate was presented to --
Q So he did --
MR. McCLELLAN: -- to the President. But the President --
Q -- he waited for a briefing.
MR. McCLELLAN: -- as he said a little while ago, believes it was important to make sure that these reforms were moving forward, to have the intended impact, which was to provide seniors with prescription drug coverage, some 40 million seniors that will now have access -- all of them will have access to prescription drug coverage -- and to make sure that the competition we were introducing will help address the rising cost of health care and make health care more affordable for our seniors.
Q Why in November did the President not want to know what his own number crunchers were thinking?
The coup de grace
Q This President, does he make decisions on major issues, like Medicare and the war in Iraq, without having accurate information, both on the cost of Iraq, weapons of mass destruction, or the cost of Medicare?
Of course he uses botox, just like he drinks coffee and has 800 dollar haircuts.
Do you think he actually went to a botox party? Nahhhh, probably just sat in an airplane on a runway somewhere, and they came to him ...
That weird ugly guy from the Wash.Times was on C-Span this morning ... said Kerry looked Lincolnesque. Before the botox, of course.
New GOP Blog:
http://www.gop.com/blog/
Please pass this on at lefty sites everywhere. Then join the fray!
Above is Ed Gillespie's blog!
You remember Nancy Pelosi at the SOTU rebuttal? That was a badly executed facelift.
Kerry? Well-executed botox.
Next month: real vs fake boobs.
Viva Scooter!!!
What would we expect from a society that watches Punk'd and "reality" TV...We may not get the media we want...but we get the media we deserve.
As if anybody needed new proof that the media will go to any lengths to smear any of the candidates, here you go.
Not a single one of the candidates will be inured against the whorish media.
"Every time we run a guy like this, he loses. There is no appeal to the base or to the key swing state voters. He's got the dem machinery behind him, which always manages to snag the nomination (as josh marshall noted some months back). That machine alone will not be enough in the GE.
dogbreath"
Poor Kerry thinks it's going to be just a regular campaign. They'll have him punch-drunk and down for the count by May. Novak on Crossfire was accussing Kerry of voting for the war, which made him just as wrong as Bush, Novak asked.
Oh well, at least I can watch the dem candidate who shot my choice out of the race get punch-drunk by the Rove machine for 9 months, and then lose for nothing.
Some call Kerry's face drawn, haggard, and Frankenstein-esque. However for his sake, I think another way for him to frame it would be more along the lines of Lincoln-esque.
Anyway, this botox story is right up there with General Clark's argyle sweater and lest we forget, Howard Dean's socks! Oh, the horror!
Well great. We've now found as much evidence of Weapons of Mass Destruction in Kerry's face as we found in Iraq. More botulism toxin in his forehead than weapons related program activities in a whole frigging country.
Do we invade Kerry?
Exasperated, Cutter (Kerry's spokeswoman) said: “With three million lost jobs in America and 500 dead soldiers in Iraq, you’d think that everybody would be talking about something other than Botox.” Wrong.
No one seems to care what Kerry plans to do with the biggest defence budget in the world if he is elected to office.
I love that she sounds so suprised?! It's cute. Like anyone gave a damn about Dean's plans when they were busy looking at pics and TV appearances to point out to us how red his face ...oh look kids Dean is angry again.
a
Botox is just the first step folks; stay tuned. The dems don't have a chance against this bullshit. Not a fucking chance.
^^ red his face was
a
So many want to bash Kerry because of his record. I only bash him because of his negative ads against other democrats.
Oh, and he didn't vote for war, not precisely, he voted to give a moron the capability to use the armed forces in an armed confrontation with Iraq. They were told that there was no way he would use that power, that he would check back with Congress before going ahead..... Just another in a long list of lies.
As for voting for the Patriot Act, it was delivered to them at 2am, and they had a vote on it by 10 or 11 the same morning. Its frigging huge, and basically they were led to believe it was a simple document justifying powers that currently existed. it wasn't for almost 2 weeks before anyone had had the time to go through it and really analyze it. then it was too late.
The Californian that voted against it? She was just about killed by an angry mob when they found out she was a single voice against it.
Hey, aren't you all missing the sleazy meme context? I think the goal is to be able to trot out the word "metrosexual", as in "Senator Kerry, are you a metrosexual". Given the auditory confusion this will cause, I'm sure the wingnuts would find this very droll indeed.
How to deal? ATTACK for chrissakes, don't explain.
I'm already depressed listening to Kerry speak. He's into High Wonk mode, and that's just total bullshit. When they ask him if he uses botox, he should just say, "I don't know, is W a real Texan or a fake one?", or "who dyes W's hair?" or some such shit.
Holden! Don't leave us hanging! What was the response to the coup de grace?
sum reportur no git turkee....
Botox is just the first step folks; stay tuned. The dems don't have a chance against this bullshit. Not a fucking chance.
Chris Nelson
Really? Naw, the voting public couldn't care less. Just because some stupid story is on CNN does not automatically signify that this is an issue for the voters.
Think about it. Record turn-out in both Iowa and New Hampshire. Chimpy getting only 85% of the vote in the New Hampshire Republican Primary, while the second, third, and fourth-place candidates were Kerry, Dean, and Clark - all write-ins!
ABB Baby! ABB!
As a couple of other people pointed out, the whole electability thing is looking a bit thin now, huh? As noted, YES, they are gonna work up the slime machine on any Democrat. It's always personal with them
Consistent on the issues!
Botox-free!
Electable!
Nary a "primal scream!"
Not a "washington-insider!"
Never a sleazy trial-lawyer!
Not a "elite New England liberal!"
www.inanimatecarbonrod2004.com
Holden! Don't leave us hanging! What was the response to the coup de grace?
sum reportur no git turkee....
martha
He gave the standard Scottie Oh Shit response:
One, I kind of just disagree with the premise of the way you look at it.
I posted this gaggle question on another thread, but it's so good it bears repeating:
Q Scott, two weeks ago today, when the President was given this number, he was also preparing for his State of the Union address. Why did the President not take advantage of that opportunity to level with the people, say, Congress has bought a pig in a poke, here's what it's really going to cost? (Laughter.)
So now Botox is sponsoring the John Kerry tour? I hear the opening act is OK, but the main attraction stinks.
BFD
K-Ro has already decided that Kerry's the man he wants to run the Chimperor against. K-Ro's just making sure that Kerry doesn't steal too much of Joe's joementum.
Diebold, ESS and Sequoia Voting are conspriring to steal our elections and these clowns talk about botox.
No. GE, Viacom, Disney, Newscorp, Clearchannel, Newscorp, Halliburton etc. are conspiring to steal our election. Blaming Diebold is like blaming the hammer that hits that cracks open a skull. Hammers are harmless unless there is an evil force behind them. Keep your eye on the real enemy. Multi-national corporations. These "journalists" (someone once used the term "news presenters" we should start using it more if for nothing less than force people think of what it means to be a journalist) are paid very well by corporate media to do what they're told to do. They rationalize it (like everyone who does something evil does) by saying to themselves, "if I don't do it they are just going to pay someone else all this money to do it."
Keep your eye on the target and fire often.
Ridicule will be the #1 weapon of the right. I don't know how it can be stopped.
Kerry denies spine implant - no one disagrees.
Kerry beats Bush in Minnesota.
so much for Minnesota going red.
http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/
7829912.htm
Wait until they play the "he supported communism" card because of his anti-Vietnam stuff. Then he's going to look soooo electable.
Personally, I think he should just grow a beard and go all out for the Abe Lincoln look-a-like approach.
Somebody said it earlier, but Kerry is the preferred candidate of the rethuglicans...like fish in a barrel.
Howard Dean's wife has to sit through Diane Sawyer asking her, basically, on national TV, how often her husband flies off the handle around the house.
A few days later, after Dean points out that Kerry's consistency on the Irag wars (I and II) is a little, uh, inconsistent, a Kerry spokesperson comes back with:
"When will Howard Dean learn that voters prefer the steady hand, as opposed to the clenched fist." -- pretty much an exact quote
My heart bleeds for poor Mr. Kerry.
This just in: More WMD not found again today.
Please see mediawhoresonline.com for some truly disturbing before and after shots of Edwards. And yet no one has asked Edwards if he does botox!!! I demand to know why not.
It's clear that Hannity, CNN etc got the memo to saturate the media about Kerry and botox. The thing is, this is so obviously a smear that I think it will help, not hurt Kerry.
WP publisher Downie defended the practice of focusing such trivialities, saying they "stick" only because they have something to stick to, namely the larger story about the candidate. The trouble is, the media writes the larger story (Dean angry, Kerry vain, patrician) and then find details to support it. Professions call this "bullshit."
In the case of Dean and the "trivial detail" of his scream, Diane Sawyer has reporterd that the media used a recording that came from his mike, which filtered out the crowd noise. With the crowd noise intact his "scream" was actually inaudible. In the case of Kerry, see the Howler for the most egregious of these. Like the stories that "stuck" to Gore, many of the "examples" that illustrate Kerry's flawed personality turn out to be plain old fashioned lies.
The candidates should defend each other from this practice even if it means sticking up for a rival. You know, live die sword.
Last Week - Dean's Yawp
This Week - Kerry's Botox
Next Week - ?????
Any Week - Calling George W. Bush to account.
Yay good puppy press!
This is such a non-issue. It is something that should be totally turned around on the dumbass media who want to make this a story.
Do ya'll have any idea how popular botox is? Dermatologists run out of it and have a hard time keeping enough because it is so popular. Most people won't give a good goddamn about this, even if they hear it. It's just stupid.
Is anyone out there still talking about Biden's hair transplant? No? That's what I thought. Sheesh.
Aoelus:
Well great. We've now found as much evidence of Weapons of Mass Destruction in Kerry's face as we found in Iraq. More botulism toxin in his forehead than weapons related program activities in a whole frigging country.
Do we invade Kerry?
I wouldn't be surprised if this is a nefarious attempt to link Kerry with Saddam's anti-wrinkle program
GO, Scott Ritter!! Trashing Wolf Blitzer and Bush.
"CNN: BROADCASTING BUSH REGIME PROPAGANDA? Management denies it..."
Aeolus, you have sickened me with the image of having to invade Kerry's face due to the presence of botulin.
What I really want to know is, is John Kerry really made of wood?
Carl | Email | Homepage | 01.30.04 - 4:21 pm | #
The only way to find out is to determine whether or not he weighs the same as a duck.
Wait until they play the "he supported communism" card because of his anti-Vietnam stuff. Then he's going to look soooo electable.
As far as I can tell, the Democrat doesn't need to win the support of McCarthyites in order to win the General Election. Clinton and Gore both did it.
Please, get real. Come November, None of the Democrats will have any trouble beating Bush. Whoever sold you on the notion of "electability" vs. the Chimp, sold you a lie.
There are very few instances of cannibalism in the Democratic Party.
The thing is, this is so obviously a smear that I think it will help, not hurt Kerry.
Lucille
Lucille is the real deal. Kerry's opponents, be they dem or gop, better come up with some positive reasons to vote for their candidates. People just don't care about this kind of shit.
GO, Scott Ritter!! Trashing Wolf Blitzer and Bush.
I second that.
"Bush admits to sodomizing 3 year old boy on White House lawn -- SCLM ignores admission, whistles, looks other way".
On the GOP blog you have to agree to this huge TOS to post a comment... ugh
You're all starting to worry me! I really thought the Republicans were the evil ones but you guys are getting pretty bad. Kerry is the nominee, now start supporting him! Dean now has Kerry in his crosshairs and is getting down and dirty, when you all gonna' start trashing him for it? Answer: you won't cause' you're a bunch of hypocrites! Atrios, you seem to have aquired a nice following of "anybody but Kerry" freaks, maybe you should speak up and set em' straight! I won't hold my breath.
WMD found - Nedra exclusive?
Pickler, long famous for her unique knack in putting together seemingly unrelated facts, might have scored a major press coup with this lede.
Senator John Kerry denied-widely reported stories of using Botulism Toxin, (Botox) on his Lincolnesque face, and also failed to mention the 38,000 liters of Iraqi botulism toxin that President Bush mentioned in his last State of the Union speech .
http://infopunks.net/archives/00...ves/
000205.html
Who was saying days ago that the GOP going after Kerry's looks could backfire like people calling Bush stupid? (and, not coincidentally, like Rush calling Chelsea "a dog")
Yes, Clancy Wiggum, that's who!
Jesus H. Christ on a crutch - the man had cancer - he has the right to look a little haggard, then improve.
p.s. if he had gotten "classic bad Botox" recently, he would not have been able to raise his eyebrows yesterday, which he did. Drudge has the photo. I shouldn't even have to refute this.
I love Scottie's "I disagree with you" answers. Jeez.
So, what I can't wait for is when they discover that all this botulinium toxin can and does infiltrate the brain. Whee!
Clancy Wiggum
http://www.libertythink.com/
2004...513570200623660
Botox artcile a could down.
Karl Rove's first principle of politics: imagine Americans watching TV with the sound off -- given that, try to persuade them.
My favorite CNN ticker line was after Bush's May 1 aircraftcarrier stunt. Quoting the pilot: "The President is a stud."
umm, Kerry did get botox. just so you know.
"As for voting for the Patriot Act, it was delivered to them at 2am, and they had a vote on it by 10 or 11 the same morning. Its frigging huge, and basically they were led to believe it was a simple document justifying powers that currently existed. it wasn't for almost 2 weeks before anyone had had the time to go through it and really analyze it. then it was too late."
In a word - baloney. How many years of experience in the Senate does it take to just say no? No spine, no leadership. There's a simple rule of thumb - if you aren't allowed to examine the bill first, then you vote NO. Simple. The Democrats abdicated their responsibility, and Kerry was one of the sheep. The GOP congress has run roughshod over the Democrats, but only because the Dems let it get to that point. More of the same is what we will get with Kerry.
Meanwhile in the Old World there was a brief flap about Silvio Berlusconi's facelift, or something, which seems to have done little to make over the image of his government of Italy as fundamentally in the pockets of big business...
plus, I don't think the removal of a few creases from his eyelids has done him many favours.
To Hell with Kerry, and the rest of you Dem party loyalists who put up with this crap...
Someone *please* point out that George Bush dies his hair:
http://
interestingtimes.blogspot...e.html#90246781
Let the Bush League know we can throw chum in the water too.
I'm not a freak.
Or how about this:
John Kerry is a self-serving, opportunistic, vote-with-the political winds type of politician who sent thousands of people to their deaths.
Kerry denies it.
Or how about this:
John Kerry is a self-serving, opportunistic, vote-with-the political winds type of politician who sent thousands of people to their deaths.
Kerry denies it.
My favorite CNN ticker line was after Bush's May 1 aircraftcarrier stunt. Quoting the pilot: "The President is a stud."
David
as in the framing type?
martha - I love you, but botox going to the brain? That's total bullshit.
I really can't believe that some people are saying "yippee," because Kerry is getting the Dean Scream treatment. Will you Deanies actually go that far? To applaud when another liberal Democrat running against Bush gets slimed, just because he got more votes than Dean did in Iowa and NH? Fuck, at this rate, who needs Rove? We're going to end up shooting ourselves and making it unnecessary for Bush to ever answer to anyone about his lies and his criminality.
Talk about DINOs and LINOs -
"You're all starting to worry me! I really thought the Republicans were the evil ones but you guys are getting pretty bad. Kerry is the nominee, now start supporting him! Dean now has Kerry in his crosshairs and is getting down and dirty, when you all gonna' start trashing him for it? Answer: you won't cause' you're a bunch of hypocrites! Atrios, you seem to have aquired a nice following of "anybody but Kerry" freaks, maybe you should speak up and set em' straight! I won't hold my breath.
Robbase "
The deal is two things:
1) Any democrat or independent or repub defector would want someone who can beat Bush.
2) If the Democratic Nat'l Committee isn't going to try and take back the House and/or Senate, that Democrat candidate had better damned well be able to stand up to a Republican congress. The veto isn't enough, compromise isn't enough...setting the agenda is what is most needed so that the ship is righted.
It wouldn't mean anything to those who would vote for them if hypothetical Presidents Kerry, Dean, Edwards, Clark or Lieberman just start passing the repubs agenda. And in doing so, continuing down the same road this country is currently on.
So far, Kerry hasn't shown demonstrably that he stands up for himself, by his campaigning or based on his voting/legistlative record. Once he shows that he can get over himself (and his photo op proposed legislation) and show that he is still a fighter (like his war hero image) then fantastic. Until then, he's gonna have become that candidate who is truly going to stand up for the Party...all of the Party, not just the DLC.
Yeah?
Well here is an EXCELLENT PIECE and MUST READ piece on the corporate media and their political reporting so far this year from the Black Commentator.
Favorite statement from the article:
The corporate media has now become the enemy.
http://www.blackcommentator.com/
...dean_media.html
Or Click on my name
Yeah?
Well here is an EXCELLENT PIECE and MUST READ piece on the corporate media and their political reporting so far this year from the Black Commentator.
Favorite statement from the article:
The corporate media has now become the enemy.
http://www.blackcommentator.com/
...dean_media.html
Or Click on my name
If he got botox injections he should ask for a refund.
Seriously. God it's going to be a long election.
"Kerry uses botox" That would be Teresa, and she admits it freely. Doesn't Drudge ever read? If this is the best Team Shrub can come up with, Mrs. K. can order the ballgown now.
um...not that it matters, but I really think he got it. I've been looking at all the pictures of him and it seems pretty obvious.
Hope he never gets caught in that lie....it wouldn't matter, but the media would have a field day.
That is exactly the kind of hard-hitting story that they love these days.
Since when does two primaries doth a nominee make? We got a looong way to go, kemosabe, and Kerry ain't the prom queen just yet.
Next week: Kerry denies penis enlargement.
Teresa agrees.
Well, actually...
The "market" puts Kerry at about 80% to win the nomination, (Edwards 12% and Dean 5%).
Stentorial voice: "And I say to you, when I become your President botox will be a priveledge, not a right."
Huuuuuzah.
"Kerry is the nominee, now start supporting him!"
There is no nominee yet, but thanks for helping to make brown fashionable again.
"Bush finds toxin on Kerrys forehead,invades Massachusetts."
Backslider - thank you - for some reason that just doesn't seem to sink in. Didn't I read today that Dean just got a lot of contributions?
I really think that if Edwards or Clark had come out on top in Iowa and NH, that something unacceptable would have been found by the unforgiving Dean supporters about them. I really believe the issue is just Dean for some people.
I also really believe that Dean is very much still in the race. I hope so - he is my candidate.
Folks who think Kerry is getting Botox treatments are barking up the wrong tree.
Try "Plastic Wood."
Don't miss tomorrow's exciting installment of "Queer Eye for the Dem Guy."
Agreed, Chris Nelson! This is but a small appetizer before the multi-course meal the press will be throwing at Kerry. It's just the kind of sh*t Maureen Dowd wastes ink over, and I don't think she's even weighed in on it yet. They haven't even gotten to Kerry's post-divorce, swingin' single years in D.C. It's going to get much, much uglier, but probably not until AFTER Kerry snags the nomination. Since Gore won't be in this race, they're probably saving up their juiciest stuff for later so they can have a new Democratic punching bag for this election.
Tena,
Hey, I'm still hoping Kucinich pulls a stunning come-from-behinder. If wishes were Harleys, we'd all be Hell's Angels.
Frankly, I think it's a bit silly to get all bent out of shape over who's in the lead at this point in the game. Maybe after South Carolina and definately going into Super Tuesday, sure...but now? Wasn't Tsongas the sure thing about this time in '92?
Backslider - Yup.
This is OT, but did anyone else see Jon Stewart last night and notice that when he ran the video of Kay giving his report to Congress the camera went to Ted Kennedy? I have never seen such intense anger on a face. Kennedy looked like it was all he could do to restrain himself from leaping out of his seat and running over and strangling Kay, who was saying "blah blah blah, not the president's fault, blah blah CIA, blah blah." Ted Kennedy has got to want so see the end of the Bush administration about as much as anyone in the country. He was just thoroughly irate and disgusted.
wait...why would Kerry deny Child Molestation charges if he didn't do it?
Wouldn't he not mention it at all?
wait...why would Kerry deny Child Molestation charges if he didn't do it?
Wouldn't he not mention it at all?
wait...why would Kerry deny Child Molestation charges if he didn't do it?
Wouldn't he not mention it at all?
Cheez Whiz, the official White House pix now have the Preznit all grey hair: they're giving him a little gravitas.
Schwarzenegger nipped, tucked, lifted, folded, botoxed and generally made himself look like an off-orange colored Asian. Nobody cared. But then Arnold has an (R) and Kerry has a (D). We'll be hearing about this until election day.
Schweet - my first contact with real wingnuts! I love the whole Mena -Skull and Bones angle: "using the actual R.M. Scaife media conspiracy to spread rumors about a fake conspiracy that controls the world and binds Yale frat brothers tighter than life and death"
"Kerry uses botox" That would be Teresa, and she admits it freely. Doesn't Drudge ever read? If this is the best Team Shrub can come up with, Mrs. K. can order the ballgown now.
Sisi
Interesting, because Kerry in an interview yesterday said he's never even heard of Botox. How can that be? Hummmmm.
Don't miss tomorrow's exciting installment of "Queer Eye for the Dem Guy."
You know Steve, I would love to see that for real. Just think of the ratings!! just think of all the wingers dropping dead from a heart attack. Plus I'd be glad to see them all get a decent haircut and a good suit.
Then after the inauguation they could redo the white house. Falwell would spontaneously combust. 
Clancy Wiggums - you know, my husband still won't show me the secret Kappa Sig handshake, either. Of course, when he was a Kappa Sig, they spent loads of energy trying to figure out how to take over the planet. They spent one whole evening so fatigued from their plotting (and drinking Everclear and smoking doobies, but hey, it was the plotting that did it) passed out in the parking lot, face down, outside the Kappa Sig house. They were a truly terrifying bunch - it's a wonder the Kappa Sigs haven't blown anything up yet.
If Dean comes back he'll get my full support. If Kerry comes out on top then I'll be for him. It's really that simple. You all waste way to much space complaining about Dems. How bout' you vote for your guy in the primary and then vote for the eventual nominee in November. Once again, real simple. Threads like this give Dems a bad name.
four legs good - That would be fun. I'd love to see what Jai, the culture guy, would come up with to revamp the lifestyle in the WH. Salsa dancing in the grand ballroom!
Robbase - I'm with you, my friend. I love Dean. I love Dean more every day. But I'll happily vote for Kerry, Clark or Edwards if one of them ends up with the nomination.
And I really believe we can win this election.
Tena and robbase - it takes two to make a thing go right, and I'll make it three. When you look at the poll #s, like the latest ARG nationals, things are really looking up: Kerry's already running 47% to 46% against Bush. He's the first Democratic candidate to perform better than "unnamed Democrat" in national polls. You'll see that people who identify themselves as Democrats outnumber Republicans 50% to 42% in this country, and that the real problem in a Bush vs. Kerry matchup is that 12% of Democrats will vote for Bush, but only 3% of Republicans will vote for Kerry (truly, the party of principle, support your guy ueber alles). Kerry's also leading by a wide margin among independents, so we know he's not turning them off like Dean does.
Even better, Bush's worst unfavorable #s are on his handling of the economy. Presumably, the Democrats defecting to Bush are "security voters." Dean may be a better candidate to run on the economy as a single issue, but he clearly will not unite the Democratic Party. With Kerry as the candidate, there's no security tradeoff like you'd have with Dean, which puts the spotlight squarely on the economy, exactly where Bush does *not* want it.
Your impulse towards unity is right on. We can do this!
Wow, agreeance!.... That's a word isn't it? Democrat in 2004, or we're big time screwed! Big time!!
Clancy Wiggums - that was beautiful and you just restored my faith in liberals. Thanks.
I know Bush doesn't want anyone looking at the economy - he can't possible want that, even though I'm convinced that he has no understanding of it at all.
We can do this. It's ours to do - we can have the country back - at least a significant part of it. There's every chance, too, that the legislatures will start coming our way. If not this time, in the off year, perhaps. Particularly if the Repugs become so uncooperative that people realize their money is being frittered away by the Repug's partisanship. That has happened here in Texas - people woke up and realized that millions of tax dollars were being wasted on the redistricting. This has not please anyone here, including many Republicans.
They were a truly terrifying bunch - it's a wonder the Kappa Sigs haven't blown anything up yet.
I, for one, always knew they were up to something. But did the IFC believe me? Noooooooo.
As a Dean supporter whose candidate was undone largely by the media uproar over one animated sppech, I can't say I'm too distraught to see John Kerry get this treatment. The media treatment, that is.
Childish fucking bullshit like this is what will ensure the Democrats remain in the political wilderness for at least another generation. No one is going to get the perfect candidate. As a yellow dog Democrat, I'll vote for whomever the party nominates. ABB, folks. ABB.
Yes, I have a question for Mr. Kerry. Are you still beating your wife?
Reminds me of fourth grade:
R: Hey, S, are you a dumbfuck in a cage?
S: No!
R: Dumbfuck on the loose! Dumbfuck on the loose!
Lyndon - ROFLMAO - I wish I'd been in your 4th grade class. We were only doing elephant jokes.
"Senator Kerry, have you stopped beating your wife?"
What idiots...
Thlayli - Oh, you don't know the half of it. The things I can't reveal - you'd probably never recover.
Skull & Bones? Small time. They only wish they could have been Kappa Sigs.
Here's my thinking:
Every time the Mayberry Machs start their l'il smear campaigns -
Let's take a trip down Memory Lane:
How about this one:
THE RESIGNATION (TA DA DA DA DA DAAAAAHHHHH)
OF Bob Livingston!
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/impe...ton_12-
19a.html
Speaker-Elect Rep. Bob Livingston announced his resignation during the House debate on articles of impeachment against President Clinton. Shields and Gigot discuss the implications.
PAUL GIGOT: I think you explain it by the fact that the accusations that came out about his affairs in the past. We're not going to be over, that there were going to be explorations into - investigations into who the women were, were they lobbyists, how long had that gone on? The details were going to be ugly, no doubt. The details are going to be prolonged, and at this juncture - where the Republican House is trying to make a moral statement and an ethical statement about the President's conduct, that a lot of the members did not want to have at the top of the party somebody who was not a real example, and despite the fact that there were different cases.
Adultery is not perjury. Nonetheless, that connection is a harder one to make when your own Speaker is under a cloud. And I think that that is what bore down on him in the end. You could feel the tension talking privately to members; they were not real happy with - with the Speaker-to-be.
Q: how would you characterize the expression on Margaret Warner's face?
Robbase nails it.
flightofstairs - The thing that comes to my mind reading that is that that whole thing still breaks my heart and makes me want to kill somebody. We can't ever let them do that again.
Crawl ticker at bottom of CNN screen next week:
...BEATING HIS WIFE - KERRY DENIES IT...
The author accuses John Kerry of using botox. What the writer failed to mention is that our president got to level 9 on Tetris today.
You know, it's bullshit to say that any one of the candidates is "the one Rove wants to run against." I doubt very much that Rove wants to run against any of them right now.
The major media is "ABB" too, you know...as in "We'll screw over anybody but Bush"...
They didn't start screwing Dean after the Iowa speech, they did it the day he was named "front runner" because he had vocal support and was polling well. He was a good story- hell he still is.
I figure this process works about as well as it can...that the people who come out to caucus or vote in a primary care a bit more and are better informed that the usual voter. So, whoever the nominee ends up being - even Joe L (scenario involving anyuresms, botox ods etc...) I'm there.
Don't want Bush naming any Supreme Court judges, don't want him allowing snowmobiles in Yellowstone, no more handing the country to his rich buddies. ABB- damn straight.
Nick - I am very much with you on the environment - Anyone would be better than Bush on the environment. The Forest Service worker who started the huge Denver fire would be better than Bush on the environment. God we have got to get rid of him. We are just teetering on the brink here - I'm watching wilderness areas disappear. And they are disappearing under the treads of 4 wheelers and dirt bikes. There is no funding for Forest Service officers to patrol the backcountry, and with Republicans in charge, nobody seems to give a shit. They know locally that the federal government doesn't care under Bush what they do in wilderness areas, and all the local governments want to do is sell as much of it as they can.
I think John Kerry ate my girl scout cookies.
Nope, just called him. He denies it.
Still.... they're gone. Smebody ate them.
So Kerry's starting to get the "front runner" treatment from the SCLM. Cool. That should take the heat off Dean long enough for his campaign to regroup for Super Tuesday. Fuck Kerry! However, the fact that our so called "journalists" consider the fact that he may or may not use "botox" (I couldn't care either way, personally) newsworthy, illustrates perfectly how low the level of political discourse has sunk in this country.
Tena - I usually agree with you all the way down the line, but I'm not in complete agreement with your 5:53 post. Not because I'm "yippee!" about Kerry getting the media slime treatment, but because of this:
Kerry was one of the main promoters of the "unelectable" meme against Dean, and his basis for that was....well, the media portrays him as thus and such. Furthermore, both Kerry and Edwards tut-tutted about the "Dean scream" as if it proved the "unelectable" stuff that they themselves were guilty of circulating. From that standpoint, Kerry's now getting the media slime treatment, and there's nothing wrong with pointing out that the media sliming of Kerry "proves" that he's "unelectable" every bit as much as the media sliming of Dean - which Kerry helped to promote and did nothing to dispel - "proves" that Dean is "unelectable". The bottom line being that neither of them is "unelectable", but it's hard for me to be sympathetic about Kerry getting slimed when he promoted the sliming against an opponent and has so richly benefitted from it. Sauce for the gander and all of that.
I couldn't care less about what Kerry has injected into his Lurchesque facade - it's far too silly to be an "issue". But I continue to have big problems with his multiple flip-flops on his Iraq vote and see that as a huge looming problem - one that truly will have an impact on his appeal and overall "electability" rather than some silly cosmetic procedure.
Dean Accused of Using $35 Million Dollars in Small Bills for Toilet Paper - Denies It!
Dean Overheard Saying Candidacy a Practical Joke that "Went Too Far" - Denies It!
Dean Accused of Talking Out Both Sides of Mouth - Denies It...
...Out of Both Sides of Mouth!!!
Bush used botox in his crotch for his carrier photo op, so he would have a bigger package, so whats the big deal.
For those that disbelieve this. He didn't have balls that big when he was in the Texas Air Natl Guard, or he wouldn't have run off to Ala to avoid maybe serving in VN.
Jennifer - I understand how you feel about Kerry's slamming Dean - I didn't like it either, and that's a valid criticism. The schadenfreude, however, got to me worse. I'm sorry, but I happen to believe with all my soul that unity is absolutely important this time around. That's why I want all the candidates to quit snarking at each other and start standing up for each other when the press snarks.
But that said, to me, unity for this election cycle isn't too much to ask for after all we've been through. After all the world has been through. I know ya'll are angry. Please, just for now, can we all put it aside?
Jennifer, this isn't politics as usual. You know that.
Some good old-fashioned conservative wisdom for Drudge: Get a real job.
Seriously, the amount of control this man has over news coverage must be drastically reduced. The images I get of news anchors peeking at Drudge during commercials to get the latest buzz from the least credible source is sickening, to say the least.
Next question CNN will be asking him - Why does he beat his wife every Tuesday?
Kerry has won 2 states. Does NH and Iowa get to determine for the rest of us who the nominee is going to be? In fact, Republicans voted in the NH primary. So Republican's now get to chose our nominee and the rest of us are to fall in line? Because I was kind of planning on going to my caucas and supporting my own candidate.
I think it probably is likely that Kerry will get the nomination, but it was also very likely that Dean would get it a couple of months ago. No one has it yet.
There will be unity when it's time. In the meantime, everyone has the right to support whatever candidate they wish to. I'm not jumping on the Kerry bandwagon until I have to and I think it's a little early for people to be lecturing others because they aren't ready to support Kerry and unify the party.
This is a Democracy. Anyone who wants to support Kerry right now can. But they need to be careful about forcing their choice down anyone else's throat. It's just a titch too Republican for my taste.
"Even better, Bush's worst unfavorable #s are on his handling of the economy. Presumably, the Democrats defecting to Bush are "security voters." Dean may be a better candidate to run on the economy as a single issue, but he clearly will not unite the Democratic Party. With Kerry as the candidate, there's no security tradeoff like you'd have with Dean, which puts the spotlight squarely on the economy, exactly where Bush does *not* want it."
What bunk, with all due respect. The reason chimpco got so 'strong' on FP/defense is because the democrats refused to criticize the litle emporer, and the Senate in particular, abdicated it's function to take careful, prolonged, measured debate. Instead, they functioned as a rubber stamp. And Kerry was a part of that stamp.
This reactionary stance by Democrats is why we are viewd as the party of wimps instead of the party with a great history in FD/defense issues. FDR, Truman, JFK, The Marshall Plan, Containment. In matters of defense/FP, this president is in fact not strong, but is a miserable, horrible failure. Pretending he is only plays into his hand.
No security tradeoff? It's to laugh. Just weeks ago, the poobahs in the party, in solumn tones, told us the best way to beat Bush was with a telegenic General. Kerry is polling well now becaue he won a couple primaries without even cursory media criticism, let alone members of his party running ads likening him to OBL, or members of gop-sponsoring "Club for Growth" viscious propoganda.
The GOP is just getting started on Kerry, and the Democratic challengers never laid a hand on him as they were gunning for the presumed front runner.
We'll see how Kerry does once the shit machine cranks up.
Exactly jdw. And Kerry and Lieberman were a big part of the negative media against Dean. They never missed an opportunity to pull things Dean said out of the context so that they could blast him. Kerry is ahead mostly because Dean was so badly battered by the media and his fellow Democrats, and the DLC included. Then the ridiculous "scream" tape, again taken out of context. That was worse than the botox story.
Now Kerry is reaping the benefits from what he had a hand in helping to create, and because there's been total lack of media scrutiny of his own candidacy. Kerry's hypocracy is hard to stomach, and I'm not about to fall in line behind him before he gets the nomination.
As far as Kerry's manager complaining that he can't be heard, too bad. Dean couldn't be heard on his national security policy because Kerry was so busy taking a half of a sentence of it and mispresenting its meaning so he could look like "the man". What goes around, comes around. Instead of encouraging and participating in "gotch" media tactics, he should have been defending his fellow Democrats from it. Instead, he dove head on into fully actively participating in them and now because he's the frontrunner he expect it to stop? You reap what you sow.
"Kerry is the nominee.."
uH, NOT QUITE YET.
Jeez, the repugs are gonna have fun in november.
>JAMES TARANTO, OPINION JOURNAL - The New Republic's blogger Noam Scheiber credits TNR intern Josh Benson with digging up an item that appeared in the magazine's March 25, 1991, issue, quoting a pair of letters Kerry wrote to constituent Wallace Carter of Newton Centre, Mass.
Jan. 22, 1991: "Thank you for contacting me to express your opposition . . . to the early use of military force by the US against Iraq. I share your concerns. On January 11, I voted in favor of a resolution that would have insisted that economic sanctions be given more time to work and against a resolution giving the president the immediate authority to go to war."
Jan. 31, 1991: "Thank you very much for contacting me to express your support for the actions of President Bush in response to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. From the outset of the invasion, I have strongly and unequivocally supported President Bush's response to the crisis and the policy goals he has established with our military deployment in the Persian Gulf."
Jesus, I'm reading this thread and worrying. Eyes on the prize baby. I think we're the party of good old fahioned American sense. Kerry looks like the guy, don't tear him down. War hero!
if he did get plastic surgery, couldn't they do a better job?
Hansel,
Let's be honest about it. It's a two-way street. You're absolutely right that Kerry's not the nominee, yet. He has to earn those delegates. But, remember a couple of months ago when the whole Dean-loving world was telling everyone else to abandon their candidate and get behind Dean for the sake of party unity? And not one vote had even been cast, yet? And then Gore gives his endorsement as if that was all that was needed to assure the nomination. So far, I haven't been hearing the Kerry camp telling everyone else to give up, that all their candidates are a lost cause, or to back Kerry for the sake of party unity. You guys just never thought that the shoe would be on the other foot.
As far as good and bad publicity goes, it was at least three weeks before the pundits stopped talking about the Kerry campaign going to hell just because of a staff shake-up. I'll bet the hubbub about Trippi dies down faster than that, but it will probably be due to so many other news items pushing it aside. Remember when Dana Milbank made a huge deal out of Kerry ordering a cheesesteak sandwich in Philly with the wrong kind of cheese? How could he have not known that it had to be Cheese Wiz?
Don't try to tell me how tough Dean's been treated by the media when it was the media that put him at the top of the polls in the first place. Think back to a week in August and the dueling cover stories of Time and Newsweek. The media giveth and the media taketh away. And everybody has felt the brunt of it.
Tena - You're right, this isn't politics as usual, and I do know that. And I agree with your central premise that we shouldn't be handing the pukes ammo against any of our guys.
But I'm going to have a hard time being more supportive of Kerry than simply voting for him. I think the biggest mark against him in my book is that I don't believe that if he is elected he will pursue the criminals in the current administration - and I believe that Dean would be much more likely to do that. We need to apply pressure to whoever the nominee ultimately is to NOT give these asshats another pass. No more of this "the American people are tired of the bickering, we need to move on." The wingnuts NEVER let go of anything, and it's because the milquetoast Dems have played nice guy for so long that we're in the shameful predicament we now find ourselves in. If I'm going to work to get someone elected - and particularly if it's someone who wasn't my choice in the first place - I damn well want some assurance that THIS time, he will be willing to drive a wooden stake into the heart of the undead and keep it from rising from the grave to prey upon us for at least the next generation. The only way to do that is to fully investigate and pursue all the wrongdoing - and it is legion - that has gone on in the past 3, soon to be 4, years - and then to lay it all out in black and white, in all its ugliness, for the people to see. Nothing less will be acceptable, and nothing less will save us in the long run.
KERRY DID NOT SAY I'VE
NEVER HEARD OF BOTOX
Yes, they've said that all day on TV, but on the tape a reporter asks for his response to the REPORT he had used botox and he says:
"I'VE NEVER HEARD IT."
I actually know republicans who dislike and even despise Bush intensely, but stick with him so they can WIN and get some of their agenda done. What is wrong with us?
RE: Botox. Maybe. Who knows? But winning Iowa and NH would ease any candidate's furrowed brow real quick.
I do like that "puppy press" line... they lick Bush-Cheney's ankles and nip and spray ANY Dem that gets a little traction. Dean, Kerry, and they're starting on Edward's mole. "Why can't he get that damn thing removed? Is he leaving it on, so he doesn't look like a male model?"
How do Dems/progressives deal with the corporate press when they step WAY out of line?
My major problem with Gore (who put up with more crap than Job) was that his Campaign didn't hit back on that endless series of RNC generated scripts and bs talking points. Where was their War Room. Attack ! Don't make Internet jokes.
Nor did his campaign nail the Spite Sisters -- Ceci Connolly from WaPost and ugh! Kit Seeley from NYT. Why didn't he throw them off his damn plane, when they totally made up that bogus "Love Canal" story? It was the Concord High (I think) Students, who went out and refuted that one. Bob Somersby has profiled a zillion of these bs stories. And to think Jason Blair got fired for making things up? What about Kit and Jeff Gerth.
To this DAY, I don't know why Gore was so personally hated by the press, and they still go out of their way to dump on him. I wasn't thrilled with GOre's Dean endorsement, but I understand why and when he did it. I thought his Move.On speeches were three of the best public addresses in years.
Plus the 2000 Bush Swoon Squad -- all with their own special nicknames...Bruni, Candy Crowley, etc. What a disgrace.
When reporters commit blatant professional malpractice they should be called on it. Real boners. Not just stuff you disagree with.
The old rationale that you can't pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel doesn't work anymore.
I think that the Press knows it bears a huge responsibility for saddling us with Bush and his corrupt cadre of corporate chislers. American soldiers are DEAD because Al Gore isn't president. It makes some squirm but what worries me is that most of them are AFRAID of Bush, Cheney, DeLay, Rove, et al. 'Cos they are crazy, vicious win-at-all-costs, who-do-we-have-to-kill Republicans. Rat fu__ing goes back to Haldeman, Segretti, Lee Atwater. And Bush trained at the knee of old Lee Atwater, who dredged up all those bait shop racists down in Arkansas to CREATE dirt about Clinton.
They were never afraid of Clinton or Gore...envious maybe.
And it's all coming at our boys... whether you like Dean, Edwards, the General or Kerry, it's comin'.
And we are saps to take pleasure, when the gun turns on one of them, and we don't BITCH and complain to high heaven.
"Bush and snorting cocaine off the cute-Scott-from-Canada's ass-crack . . . he denies it."
Kerry has a voting record of big spending. He gets an "F" from the NTU: NTU.org for his free spending voting record. Bush has been bad enough. Kerry has a long record of votes for the Bushies to attack. If Kerry is the nominee it will negate an issue that can be used against Bush.
Limited government types are furious with Bush. Dean would be a much stronger candidate. If Kerry looks to hurt Bush, you may be quite sure that the Bushies will use his votes in the senate for racial quotas against him.
Don't blow it. The war issue is starting to turn against Bush. Dean can exploit that in ways that Kerry, because of his voting for the war, can't.
Rick, that's why it's such a damn shame that the SCLM took Dean out with such a cheap shot. A hoot at a pep rally?
And the sheeple merrily go along, thinking, "electible! I certainly want the guy who's most likely to beat bush."
And so it goes ...
The NYT just clubbed Kerry (over the head for his "special interests" hipocrisy: Democrats Assail, and Tap, 'Special Interests' (see the Homepage link). And just so we know that the report is F&B, there's even notes on Bush, Edwards and Dean - (but not too F&B, since joementum doesn't even rate a mention!) Get used to this, Kerriacs - botox is just one of the many targets your boy's wearing these days...
Yeah but Travis,
Isn't it ironic...It was the Dean supporters who were throwing around that "electability" crap more than anyone, for a year, up until 2 weeks ago.
Also, Dean lost Iowa BEFORE the scream.
I don't think the preoccupation with his energy at the pep-rally is what cost Dean NH. He really got smoked in Iowa.
Dean attracted a base of 'pragmatist' supporters who had no trouble at all sacrificing ideals to be able to say they are on the 'winning' team. It only makes sense that they were indeed transferable to whichever candidate appeared most likely to win the primary.
Sure, he lost Iowa. And that was a setback, obviously. But we all know the impact that the press echoing some stupid idea around for a week or so can have on people's perceptions.
Millions of perfectly sane people haven't discovered that the blogosphere can keep you sane and grounded. All they know is that everyone was making of fun of Dean, like he was a lunatic, and talking about him like he was dead in the water. And they haven't been paying attention to much in the race, they just know they want Bush out. So you play the 'I have a scream' speech -- edited for full effect -- about 1,000 times between IA and NH, and suddenly Dean is done.
Front-runner and head of a surprising national progressive movement, but with legit centrist cred ... done. Overnight.
Well this explains EVERYTHING,
I just got around to reading the Andrez Martinez column:
but Trippi, a lifetime political operative, had spent the bubble years out in Silicon Valley, marveling at the Internet's networking capacity. He advised tech companies and promoted his favorite stocks on online message boards. He was so bullish on Wave Systems, an information services company whose stock has since cratered, that Wave hired him, much as Trippi would later hire some pro-Dean bloggers.
Trippi was a message board tech stock promoter?
Eeewwwwwwwwwww!
OK here goes a bad joke I just heard:
They found the weapons of mass destruction! They're in John Kerry's forehead.
Sorry, sorry, my bad.
Also just heard: Is America ready for its first metrosexual president? (Bill Mahr I think)
Who cares if Kerry uses Botox? And if any Repukes where I live (the capital of superficiality, Orange County, Calif.) say anything about it, I'll laugh. This place is full of people who can't move their foreheads. And they're mostly Republican. What a joke.
I guess I should have provided a link for that Martinez article that informs us that:
Trippi was a message board tech stock promoter during the tech bubble...
A campaign that mirrors the dot-com bubble burst
http://www.iht.com/articles/127382.html
The article sez:
"This was Priceline taking on the big airlines..."
More like VA Linux taking on Exxon-Mobil.
None of those bubble 'n bust tech stocks ever came back...
Dean is done.
While we are on the subject of Kerry's voting record........
Last week the senate voted to ban overtime pay for nurses, firefighters, and policemen. I know, I know. Can you believ it? Guess who was AWOL for the vote? Yup! Kerry - that's right! the man that the firefighters' union is backing.
Oh, guess who else? Edwards was also AWOL for the vote. Yup! Edwards, the one that some of the nurses are backing! Now that is some news worth printing.
He gets an "F" from the NTU...
I'm not sure the NTU is the most reliable and objective of sources. NTUF's comparison of the Dem candidates to Bush left me with a lot of questions about the Foundation's methods, integrity, and objectivity. Chief among my concerns are:
* NTUF's analysts posit that new or expanded programs necessarily mean debt spending, unless balanced with cuts. They apparently ignore new money from increased taxes (via repealing some or all of the Bush tax cuts) or money saved through fiscal responsibility.
* NTUF presents yearly rates of increased spending for the Dems, without adequately explaining how they arrived at these projections.
* NTUF suggests they have included the cost of bills, currently on the books, that the candidates have endorsed. NTUF does not explain how those numbers actually relate to the projected future spending by a candidate, should he become President.
* The numbers are based on campaign promises and compared to actual spending. The disconnect between promises and reality is well-known. Even assuming a President can enact all of his programs, that a candidate is not explicitly campaigning on cuts does not mean he will not push for targeted cuts as President.
* The yearly rate is apparently multiplied by 3+ years to compare it to Bush's actual spending. This is invalid, regardless of how accurate the projections are. Programs are phased-in. That I've averaged spending $100 per day over the past five days does not mean that, by Wednesday, I'd spent $300.
Hey Vicki,
Thanks for the info. What was the vote count on that? Was it a close one?
During his last year as governor how many days was Dean actually IN Vermont?
They found the weapons of mass destruction! They're in John Kerry's forehead.
Hey! I made that bad joke first! I don't care if people steal the good ones, but the bad ones are mine, dammit, mine!
Hey Vicki,
Thanks for the info. What was the vote count on that? Was it a close one?
During his last year as governor how many days was Dean actually IN Vermont?
Can we please stop with the "he voted for the Patriot Act and NCLB" nonsense? Everybody voted for the fucking patriot act. If Howard Dean had been in congress, he would've voted for it too. Yeah, it was stupid, of course, but I'm not going to refuse to support someone because of this. Also, everybody voted for No Child Left Behind. It was Ted Kennedy's fucking bill. Is the Tedaroo not liberal enough for you people? Kerry also did not vote for the tax cut, so far as I can tell. On the key vote, he seems to have been one of the 38 Democrats who voted against it.
So why all this nonsense?
So why all this nonsense?
Well, first, I'm not sure they're wholly invalid criticisms. The fact that "everybody" voted for USA PATRIOT as it is written is more an indictment of everybody than it is an acquittal of Kerry.
At the same time, you're right that using such issues to distinguish between the candidates can border on the dishonest. And why that particular nonsense? Why, because it's politics, of course! If someone hasn't picked a horse, yet, they almost certainly have a whipping boy or two (not counting "Job" Lieberman).
Morons, do the RNC's bidding!
In one picture Kerry has his eyebrows raised and in the other he doesn't, Scream botox! Morons or trolls. How many of you believed the "invented the internet" or "lied about Love Story" crap when it was first promulgated?
Here's a conspiracy theory, maybe Rove wanted you to get into Daan so that when he failed you would trash Kerry.
"Botoxed, French-looking, Vietnam veteran" is a classic example of a Velcronym™. (That's my word, that I thought of, and that was invented by me.)
How quickly the repugnuts forget their own Dear Leader's experience with facial cosmetology. Remeber shots like this in November 2000?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/
galler...4103692,00.html
Hey, W, is that evil manifesting itself on your face?
Anonymous at 1:00 am - yes, Dean did get "smoked" in Iowa. But even that was not as big a deal as the SCLM made it out to be. Caucuses are not primaries, and if they were, we would likely have seen Kerry winning by fewer than 5 points with Edwards 10 points back from Dean. Winning the caucus depends as much on your ties to the local party chieftans as it does on attracting individual supporters. Kerry, as the insider's insider, had the support of the local party people - the folks who know how to "work" the caucus to bring the supporters of unviables over to their guy. And these local party regulars tend to be community bigwigs - they have clout, which in and of itself can sway opinion and voting results in a non-anonymous caucus. Dean's caucus chieftans were by and large newbies - lots of them had never attended a caucus before. Add that to Kucinich telling his supporters to get behind Edwards, and Gephardt's (another insider's insider) going over to Kerry and some to Edwards, and you get the result you got in Iowa. The Dean campaign made a massive tactical blunder in the Iowa caucuses, but it would be silly to pretend that what each of the candidates came out with was equal to the support they had going in. Both Kerry and Edwards showed something like 10 points better than they would have had Iowa been a primary rather than a caucus - so the SCLM spin about Dean getting really badly "smoked" wasn't entirely honest - because the point spreads weren't a true reflection of caucusgoers' first choice for nominee.
Bushboy & the Goopers are not merely incompetent, corrupt and utterly depraved, they also represent the greatest threat to what is left of American democracy.
For all those who find (Kerry, Clark, Dean or Edwards) wanting because of their voting records, war-time experience or lack of experience, I would say that not supporting the Democratic ticket in November is tantamount to shooting oneself in the head to spite your brain.
Vaara,
"Velcronym(tm)"?? How about instead "Velcromeme"? It's mine, all mine!!!!
Hey, and how come no response yet to the NYT article on special interests?
While Senator John Kerry regularly promises to stand up to "big corporations," his campaign has taken money from executives on Wall Street and those representing the telecommunications industry, which is under his purview in Congress. Mr. Kerry denounces President Bush for catering to the rich, but he has depended more heavily on affluent donors than the other leading Democrats except for another populist, Senator John Edwards.
Are there no kool-ade drinking Kerriacs or Edwardsiacs out there to set the record straight on this one?
I think he looks a lot better with the botox injections...less like a cadaver.
It looks like the ChickenHawks are trying to come up with some silly issue regarding a Vietnam War veteran.
Everybody voted for the fucking patriot act.
Not Kucinich.
Everybody voted for the fucking patriot act.
Not Kucinich.
This is an old LBJ campaign trick. Legend says that while running for a state office in Texas LBJ told his campaign manager to spread the rumor that his opponent screwed pigs.
His campaign manager replied, "Hell, Lyndon, nobody will believe that!"
And LBJ replied, "Yeah, I know. I just want to hear him deny it."
Goddamn right I did that - and it worked.
I saw an interview with Jimmy Breslin once in which he talked about the art of the smear. Not hard at all - impugn character in such a way to make them deny, then let the denial carry it for you. And if you can work sodomy into the story, so much the better.
pigs eh? Leave it to LBJ. A subtle variation of this tactic is what a friend of mine and I call the "rat-fucker technique". You start with the pre-emptive denial with appropriate emphasis: "Well, unlike some people, at least I don't fuck rats." Thus smearing your opponent without ever having actually had to accuse him of anything.....
Steve Perry at Bush Wars Blog has just printed some examples of Kerry's more recent (and shameless) attempts to play both sides of the political street in regards to how he cocksuckingly supported Bush and is now claiming he did no such thing. And this is only the tip of the iceberg.
Kerry's flip-flopping hypocrisy is going to be the media's anti-Dem "Gotcha!" this year, as Gore's "lying" was in 2000, with the extra added bonus that they don't have to make this shit up out of whole cloth because it's mostly true. Add in the usual hysteria about made-up and/or petty bullshit (a la the botox nonsense), and you've got a very nice anti-Kerry crusade from the "liberal media". Mark my words.
"Don't try to tell me how tough Dean's been treated by the media when it was the media that put him at the top of the polls in the first place. Think back to a week in August and the dueling cover stories of Time and Newsweek. The media giveth and the media taketh away. And everybody has felt the brunt of it."
Antonymous
Thanks for making my point. And this is exactly what Kerry can expect. Kerry participated heavily in the media's ridiculous smear campaign on Dean. And now he shouldn't expect the ridiculousness to stop now that he is the front runner. His attitude seems to be that it was okay when he and the media were doing it to Dean, but now there is something less than savory about the media doing it to him.
Well, like you said, the media giveth and the media taketh away. They pretty much been giving Kerry a free pass while they destroyed Dean. NOw it's Kerry's turn. I'm still waiting for the day when the media reports the news instead of making it. Kerry had a great opportunity to take the high road on the Dean smear but he chose to participate in it. Now he can wallow in the mud he helped to pile as far as I'm concerned. He had his chance and he blew it. And now you are telling those who were turned off by Kerry's attacks on Dean that unless we throw ourselves down like rugs and support him the Dems are going to lose? Give me a fricking break. If Kerry loses, he has no one else to blame but himself. He chose to play the media and the Republican's game instead of setting the rules himself. Now it is up to him to fix it. He made his job harder by his own actions. My supporting a different candidate doesn't change that fact. My criticizing him doesn't change that fact.
The botox story is a ridiculous story but is demonstrates one of the things I dislike about Kerry. Kerry saying that he never heard of botox when his wife is openly admitting to getting botox injections is simply not credible. We already have a person in the WH who lies when it's to his advantage. I'm not that interested in having another. Kerry has been on both sides of major issues throughout his campaign so I don't trust what he says. He's a manipulator not much different from Bush. But if he gets the nomination, I'll vote for him only because he is the lessor of 2 evils, not because he is who I want for president.
No offense, but if your thesis holds correct, Kerry can't withstand criticism from the GOP and national media in a general election, but the man who can is Dean, who couldn't withstand criticism from Democrats in a Democratic race?
Clancy, there is a difference between fighting legitimate enemies and having to keep one eye on your ostensible "allies" in case they plunge a knife into your back.
Not that you have to worry about me not voting for Kerry, because it's not an issue. I'm a Canadian, and even if I were an American citizen, I'd vote for anyone who gets the Democratic nomination this year...including Kerry. That doesn't mean I'd be happy about it. Frankly, almost every Dean supporter whose opinions I've read on these and other forums have pretty much said the same thing.
I just don't have any faith that Kerry's as automatically "electable" as he seems to think he is. I was discussing this with a friend of mine recently, who thought Kerry's war record would be a good shield against Republican slime, but when I outlined what happened to Max Cleland - whom he'd never heard of - he became increasingly appalled.
How many posters wasted sweet time on this thread?
Are we really talking about this?
Am I really writing this?
Sheesh.
No offense, but if your thesis holds correct, Kerry can't withstand criticism from the GOP and national media in a general election, but the man who can is Dean, who couldn't withstand criticism from Democrats in a Democratic race?
Clancy Wiggum
No offense taken, but if you're talking to me, my "thesis" is that any candidate in the Dem party has been damaged by Kerry's and Lieberman's participation WITH THE MEDIA in the smear of Dean. Kerry and Lieberman were on every show, and in every media outlet propagating the BS that was being toted by the media. In doing so, they were the ones who divided the party, not the people here who would prefer someone else over Kerry.
The divide in the unity happened months ago and was not only participated in by Kerry and Lieberman, but it included DNC's representative James Carville and the DLC.
So in answer to you question, I believe that the deunification of the party in which Kerry was a willing participate has been going on for quite awhile and has weakened any candiate's chance against Bush. So the people on this thread who are saying it is starting now with other people on this thread who are criticizing Kerry is hogwash.
Where were all of these people when Dean was the front runner and the deunification of the party started? I think some were the ones who were chasticizing us because Dean is unelectable. I didn't hear any of them complaining because Kerry, Lieberman, the DLC and James Carville were participating in superficial and ridiculous media smear tactics. They were telling us to quit whining and that Dean had to get tougher. Never mind that the above were spewing complete BS about what Dean was saying.
The campaign is not over and everyone has the right to support whatever candidate they want. But it's a bit late and disingenuous for some of the Kerry people or anyone else to start complaining that we should now unit behind Kerry or we are ruining the Dems chances. They were weakened a long time ago. The responsibility lies at the feet of the DLC, Carville, Kerry and Lieberman, and the pathetic excuses we have for media in this country.
The Dems needed to frame the issues, which Dean was trying to do, but Kerry and Lieberman continued to allow the GOP and the media to frame them for this party. National security is an overblown RNC issue. It's important, but it's not the end all be all. But Kerry jumped all over Dean for being weak on national security issues like he won't have a whole team of advisors to take care of this for him. Most of these guys will be far stronger on National Security than Bush ever thought of being. It's complete BS, but Lieberman and Kerry played right into the GOP's hands on this one and made the Dems look like they are weak and have to defend themselves. Pure and utter BS!
Now Kerry is saying practically the same things Dean was saying which is good. But it does not change the fact that the Dems position would
"Not Kuninich"
Right, and he joined with some limited government type conservative Republicans who led the fight to have sunset stipulations attached to some of the more civil liberties threatening provisions of the act. Among them were Ron Paul and Bob Barr, who joined the ACLU out of concern over Patriot. Here are some of Bob Barr's concerns and his regrets over voting for Patriot:
http://www.reason.com/0312/
cr.jw...cr.jw.bob.shtml
The Bush regime is trying to stop these provisions of Patriot from expiring. We should contact our congress people:
http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/
and tell them not to reinstate the provisions of Patriot set to expire. Our future liberty, and that of our children may well depend on our taking action now.
BTW, to Kucunich's great credit he is the only Democratic candidate who favors bringing our troops home from Iraq right now.
Now Kerry is saying practically the same things Dean was saying which is good. But it does not change the fact that the Dems position would have been stronger if Kerry & co hadn't been playing into the GOP hand in the first place.
I will vote for Kerry if is gets the nom. In the meantime I will support my candidate. It's a democracy. That's how it works. But I won't be bullied into supporting Kerry out of some sort of guilt I'm suppose to have about not uniting the party that he played a major role in dividing in the first place. Can you see how hypocracy would kind of be playing a role there?
He (Kerry) gets an "F" from the NTU for his free spending ways...
"I'm not sure the NTU is the most reliable and objective of sources."
The NTU gives grades based on total dollars a congress person voted to spend. This is how Kerry acquired his personal "F" grade:
http://www.ntu.org/main/componen...p3?
senate_id=54
Limited government types are furious with Bush for his expansive (and expensive) agenda. If Kerry is the Dems nominee it will negate this issue which can be used against Bush.
Jennifer,
Dean's results in Iowa were consistent with the polls in the two days prior to the election. That was before any horse trading was going on and well before he screamed. Yes, let's be intellectually honest here. Dean's support was and still is soft. He attracted a lot of "pragmatists" who apparently 'loved' nothing else about him except they thought they were on the winning team.
Now the picture keeps getting bleaker and bleaker...
Dean needs Kerry to lose SC almost as much as Edwards does.
Even though he is changing his focus to Michigan, Dean just lost some key endorsements in that state to other candidates.
Dean is done.
Anon - Yes, let's be honest. And let's begin by addressing the central point I made: that horse trading played more of a role in Iowa than the media has reported. Dean's poll numbers there 1 - 2 days before the election showed him within 5 or 6 points of Kerry, and ahead of Edwards by 8 - 10 points. NO poll showed Edwards even close to Dean prior to the caucus. So where you're getting this "consistent with the polls" bit is anyone's guess.
As for "soft" support, it's obvious that some of his support was soft; otherwise, the local party chieftans who were aligned with Kerry couldn't have eaten into his numbers on the night of the actual caucus.
While I agree with you that Dean needs a Kerry loss in SC (and hopefully several other states) and I worry about him sitting out the Feb 3 states, it's ridiculous for you to assert that endorsements going elsewhere mean that Dean is done. Just ask Dean himself about how that Gore endorsement and the Carter semi-endorsement cemented first place for him.
The fat lady hasn't sung yet and won't for several weeks to come.
Carter didn't even come close to semi-endorsing Dean.
The "market" sez Dean has about a 4% chance of winning the nomination. He may not be "done", but those are pretty long odds.
The final Des Moines register showed the top three in the SAME order as they finished: Kerry, Edwards, Dean. This was supported by other polls that had Kerry way ahead followed by Edwards and Dean within the MOE of each other.
Did these pre-caucus polls somehow factor in horse-trading or was Dean toast before the caucuses started...I think the data supports the latter.
Dean's support was and still is soft. He attracted a lot of "pragmatists" who apparently 'loved' nothing else about him except they thought they were on the winning team.
And now that they've moved to Kerry they're still very soft and with the first signs of weakness in Kerry's campaign they'll bolt again to the next candidate. However, what support remains with Dean I wouldn't call soft. And they appear to be slowly regaining steam. Dean's fundraising is still moving along nicely.
Kerry, high name ID and all, didn't spend the better part of '03 at the bottom of the polls for nothing.
Oh, and what Hansel said.
Hansel,
You missed my point completely. Here it is: The media has taken shots at everybody at one time or another. Kerry got mistreated earlier while Dean was being touted as the messiah. And now it seems to have been reversed. Not only that, but Kucinich, CMB, and Sharpton all got written off by a number of people in the media, even a debate moderator, as having no business running for president. I didn't think that was fair, either.
Now, any avid Dean supporter who goes around accusing other candidates of duplicity has got to be in deep denial. I haven't seen anyone in this presidential campaign change their positions with the direction the wind was blowing quite like Dean has. His support for the Biden-Lugar proposal has morphed into "I alone stood up to George W. Bush". What a goddam crock! Entitlements - on or off the table? Well, it depends who's asking.
And, I really thought I had made it clear about this whole "party unity" thing. The answer is: No, I don't expect you to get in line behind Kerry for the sake of party unity or for any other reason. But, that was how the Deaniacs wanted it when Dean was the frontrunner. Instead, I'm content to wait it out until all is decided in the traditional way. The person with the most delegates wins. And, if it's Kerry, I STILL don't insist that you back him. That would be hypocritical of me to do that. If Dean were the nominee, I couldn't support him. There's been way too much bad blood in this campaign and I just can't stomach the Deaniacs and the vile crap they've been spewing in all directions for the past six months or so. And, the best thing I could say about a Dean presidency is that it probably wouldn't be as bad as a Bush presidency. If Dean were the nominee, instead of working for him, I'd put my energy into working against Bush and working for local candidates. I certainly wouldn't have a problem with you or anyone else doing the same. See my point?
To heck with whether Kerry used Botox. The source of that question was a buttocks named Drudge!
What I'd like to know... Can cowboy Bush ride a horse. Rumor has it, he gets around his ranch in an ancestor of the Nellybelle driven by Pat Buttram on the old Roy Rogers TV show. The phony!
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