HULK SMASH!!!
Botox in Kerry or no Botox in Iraq? Choices, choices.
Your point is she agrees Kerry had Botox treatments?
If he did he did.
He is the droopiest sepulchral voiced candidate out there.
That and his Danny Glover Lethal Weapon turn the head to speak thing really freaks some of us out.
Watching him is like watching John Carradine summoning zombies.
Why are we paying this lady any attention?
If we ignore her then eventually her ed's will realize she has no reading audience and FIRE HER SHALLOW ASS!
You guys are feeding the trolls on this one.
MYOB'
.
I suggest MoDo will spend another lonely night wondering why Michael Douglas abandoned her.
Should we take up a collection to buy MoDo a good vibrator?
ouch!
Wow Atrios, you REALLY hate MoDo.
I predict Jon Stewart will soon have Paul O'Neill as a guest.
why did Michael ditch MoDo for Catherine Zeta-Jones? Shit, that's a no brainer! MoDo, no shame in losing out to CZJ... kinda like a farm club vs. the big leagues.
Speaking of Michael Douglas and botox, he might have done some other stuff too: http://tinyurl.com/2h8y8
haha Fred, make sure to put .18 at the end of your donation.
Bob Dole and viagra.
Arnold and freak facial stretching.
Bush Jr. and cocaine.
Last night my wife came to me and said, "Did you know Bush was given permission to not do his Vietnam service for a year to help on a campaign?" She was watching HBO Bill Mar, and that is the best they could do and then they launched into Kerry and Botox and $170 haircuts.
There is no hope except for massive street campaigns. Who can organize these in a national manner so that they are disciplined and follow a set plan of presenting the stories.
Bush is the central weak point that if hit correctly fractures all the fault lines of political, legal, corporate and media. In order to move into the next iteration of our nation, they all have to change and Bush is the central weak point they made the decision to link through.
I tried to cancel my subscription to the NY Times. I can't. The subscriber services number NEVER answers.
I don't need MoDo anymore. I don't need David Brooks, or BIll Safire, or Jeff Gerth, or Judtih Miller, or Jodi Wilgoren, or Robin Toner, or Bill Keller. I really don't need Bill Keller, and example of the incompetent being promoted if there ever was one.
And I can read Krugman online.
Dr. Pedant-write an angry letter, perhaps also you can demand refund from the time it was dated (not likely).
At "Homepage" an LAT bit of righteous anger over the lack of impeachimp. Maybe it was already posted.
I always personally thought Kerry looks _so_ much like Dr. Carl Hill, the be-headed, psychotic doctor from the movie _Re-Animator._ Has anyone else ever seen this? I swear that actor is a double for Kerry if there ever was one.
And Bush reminds me of Cypher in Matrix.
kei and yuri,
Yeah, I will. Thanks.
Kerry can look like the insides of my stomach. I don't care; as long as he gets Bush out he's a good-looker to me.
And speaking of wastes of flesh:
I skimmed Brooks piece today (Amazing how little you actually have to read of their crap) and he is blaming the Dem electorate for voting based on electability without mentioning that the media has been banging that drum and not to mention the fact that no evidence is provided.
What a tool.
Kerry can look like the insides of my stomach. I don't care; as long as he gets Bush out he's a good-looker to me.
echidne
So when Kerry loses you won't enjoy his Deaths Head grimace?
Atrios, I love ya, but I think the Michael Douglas bit has run its course.
I suppose your point is that she writes about immaterial/shallow/personal issues herself, so it's not unfair to do the same to her. I guess that's right, but it's the same kind of tacky tactic that Rush and Coulter use.
Anyone see Kerry changes his campaign song?
http://www.lyrics007.com/Beach%2...h%
20Lyrics.html
Mail: Beach Boys - Monster Mash Lyrics to a friend
I was working in the lab
And late one night
When my eyes beheld
An eerie sight
When my monster from his slab
Began to rise
And suddenly
To my surprise
He did the mash
He did the monster mash
The monster mash
It was a graveyard smash
He did the mash
It caught on in a flash
The monster mash
It's called the monster mash
The laboratory in the castle eaves
And the master bedroom where the vampire sleeps
The girls all came from their humble abodes
To get a jolt from my electrodes
They did the mash
They did the monster mash
The monster mash
It was a graveyard smash
They did the mash
It caught on in a flash
The monster mash
It's called the monster mash
Zombies were having fun
The party had just begun
The guests included Wolfman
Dracula and his little baby boy
The scene was rocking
All the digging sounds
Igor unchained ????
The Coffin Bangers were about to arrive
With a local group the Beach Boy five
They did the mash
They did the monster mash
The monster mash
It was a graveyard smash
They did the mash
It caught on in a flash
The monster mash
It's called the monster mash
Mmmm, what luck girl in the audience
Would care to dance with Igor?
The monster mash is so ghoul
Muah ha ha ha
Muah ha ha ha
I tried to cancel my subscription to the NY Times. I can't. The subscriber services number NEVER answers.
I had this situation with my phone company, call the new subscribers line, and just tell them you want to cancel -- probably the same people support both functions.
Someone should ask VP Dick if he uses viagra and Smirk if he uses Enzyte for his massive codpiece. Don't know how you spell the male enhancement pill advertized on right wing radio.
Wonder how good rat wang christian take to all the ads for getting it up and making the penis larger on am radio? What will the children think?
Atrios, sweetie, you need to come up with a new dis for MoDo. The old one is getting kind of old, and if you're going to stalk her, you might as well be creative about it.
I don't mind you doing it, just, you know, be a little more creative about it. I enjoy to hearing a good joke as much as the next person, even if I happen to enjoy the writing of the person being joked about.
Please don't tell me your answer is going to be that if she comes up with a new dis for Kerry, you'll come up with a new joke for her, cause that's just lazy. I doubt she's personally wounded by the Michael Douglas anyway, she probably is thanking her lucky stars she *didn't* get married to him. I know I would be.
Has anyone checked over at Drudge to see what MoDo column exclusive he has on this matter? Anyway, Bennett odds are definitely in favor of the botox column at this point.
I found a link to Kerry photographs.
http://members.eisa.net.au/
~johb...carrphotos.html
If Kerry gets elected, will he become.........Presid-ENT?
Get it? Ent? The tree-people from Lord of the Rings? Get it? Huh?
See? Even right-wingers can make up funny stuff.
Talk about leading with your chin...
You know, Howard might still call back. Don't give up hope Maureen!
JKP I used to feel the way you do. When Salon went after Henry Hyde I thought they went too far.
Now I feel differently. I think only a relentess taste of their own medicine will convince Media Borg that personal attacks are not in their best interest.
In fact, if it were up to me the attack would be on Sulzberger, Graham, Parsons, Murdoch, Redstone, Eisner, Immelt, et al.
But for that I would need better HTML skills, my own blog, and a better work ethic.
Which is why I am so grateful to Atrios and all the watch sites.
from nytimes:
"The Maryland study confirms concerns about electronic voting that are rapidly accumulating from actual elections. In Boone County, Ind., last fall, in a particularly colorful example of unreliability, an electronic system initially recorded more than 144,000 votes in an election with fewer than 19,000 registered voters, County Clerk Lisa Garofolo said. Given the growing body of evidence, it is clear that electronic voting machines cannot be trusted until more safeguards are in place."
Speaking of Botox--from David Brooks' article in the NYTimes today:
"All this time, Kerry had not changed his views particularly, and he had not changed his campaign style, though he might have changed the bags under his eyes, depending on whom you ask."
also from Brooks:
"Clark seemed so immediately electable to so many Democrats that the day after he announced his candidacy, he shot up toward the top of the national polls. These voters are nothing if not principled, and their primary principle is that they should win. This, after all, is a party of ideas."
He got it partly correct--the democrats are so terrified at what W could do to this country with another 4 years--damn straigh electability is important.
I doubt she's personally wounded by the Michael Douglas (incident?) anyway...
I don't. She's still pissed Clinton never went for her.
Sorry about the tag...
No doubt-- MoDo will do some "clever" comparison of no WMD in Iraq compared to Kerry's supposed botox. Thus conflating something extremely serious with something extremely trivial. Her "M.O.", so to speak.
Word on the street is that Kerry switched from striped boxers to checkered briefs. Obviously that alone is enough to render him unfit to be president.
But seriously, my vote goes to the first guy who, when asked one of these asinine clothing/botox/physco-babble questions, looks at the "reporter" in question and asks of them something along the lines of:
1. What news organization do you represent
2. We have millions with no health insurance, obscenely overpriced prescription drugs, the slow death of the bill of rights, $500 billion deficits as far as the eye can see, gutted enviromental laws, corporate control of the US government in general, the emnity of almost the whole world (except Poland of course), Iraq and the lies that got us there, Afghanistan, NK, Isreal/Palastine, terrorism, and many other important issues that will directly affect the future of this great nation. And the best you can do is to ask me about freaking botox?
3. What news organization do you represent again?
This is the guy that gets my vote. In the likely event that none of the candidates actually grows a spine and tells these so called reporters to fuck-off when they ask stupid questions, I guess I will vote Green again. Or maybe write in Atrios.
I don't. She's still pissed Clinton never went for her. --dave
Now, see... That's funny! 
Publius II,
that actually was funny. But that just makes you a rarity, not a representative of most right-wingers trolling around.
John Kerry,is he an Ent? Click on my homepage link.
A public figure did something to clean up his appearence? Shocking. Next, I'll be reading that they spend a few moments with the networks' make-up artists before TV appearences.
BTW--other than the 'blogs, has anyone mentioned Dubya's rather obvious dye-job for the SOTU?
* * *
OT-esque, but--If the ability to beat Bush is the main thing we're looking for in a candidate--or I'm looking for, anyway--no kidding, how do you tell? Here in St.Atriosberg, we only confer with each other.
Pretend for the sake of argument that you're one of the voters who went for Bush in 2000, never dreaming he'd turn out to be such a screw-up. You're now fairly disgusted with Bush, but when you look across the aisle at CDE&K, who do you see that you like? Or who you dislike less than Bush?
In that light, Kerry looks pretty good. Clark too; They're both ex-soldiers with brains. Wish they weren't both such stiffs.
Dean, OTOH, is too easy to spin as a hippie. And don't tell me it's not fair, I know it's not fair. I'm just saying, is all. If Dean wants a serious shot, he's going to have to emphasize his hard-ass qualities.
Edwards, like Dean, has to allay "national security" fears somehow, but Bush's best quality--so I hear--is his charm and Edwards has him completely beat there.
We are going to win, though. Assuming an honest election, Bush is toast.
dude, what the hell did maureen dowd ever do to you? she's fluff, and if you take her seriously enough to bash her and her personal misfortunaes, that's just low.
dude, what the hell did maureen dowd ever do to you? she's fluff, and if you take her seriously enough to bash her and her personal misfortunaes, that's just low.
the real question she will ask is if he wear's bikini briefs underwear (read anti-american/french) or boxers (mom, apple pie, and H2)
I suppose your point is that she writes about immaterial/shallow/personal issues herself, so it's not unfair to do the same to her. I guess that's right, but it's the same kind of tacky tactic that Rush and Coulter use.
JKP, "nice" or not, right or wrong, I think you're missing the larger point of Atrios' Michael Douglas schtick: he's providing a mythological/psychological backdrop for the bitter, cynical, almost nihilist style of Dowd's writing.
One thing you can't help but notice is how many of her articles are a sort of distorted, solipsistic form of "feminist" rage, railing against the stupidity, vanity, and arrogance of men and the tragedy of the woman cast aside when youth fades. Now, there could be some merit in this, but in her case all that comes out is bile. Hence her equally bitter, scornful attacks on "happy" women (e.g. Judith Dean).
It all sort of suggests the bitter rage of The Woman Scorned.
Hence the Micheal Douglas thing.
Molly, I wonder if we're going to need all those many "undecided" voters out there. I wonder how much crossover appeal the Dems actually need.
This isn't 2000, IMHO, when there wasn't a real difference. Nobody who voted for Gore back then is gonna vote Bush now. We need about six more people, the state or Arkansas (which Bill Clenis could deliver for the Dem in a heartbeat) and for Florida not to be such a fuckup as a state.
I think it's in the bag already. Last night I went out and bought a pair of black patent leather high heeled shoes to dance in on Nov. 7. I may be overconfident, but that hasn't killed our preznit, so I'm not too worried. I'm way healthier than him.
A.
State OF Arkansas. Should wait until 5 p.m. to drink.
A.
I suppose your point is that she writes about immaterial/shallow/personal issues herself, so it's not unfair to do the same to her.
I thought it was more like Atrios mocking her style, than it was him giving her a taste of her own medicine. Am I wrong?
... OT: Bush, in his radio address, called for making spending limits law.
I don't recall a similar inquiry into Arnold's various "beauty" treatments. As the divine Ms. Molly quoted (I forget the original), he "looks like a condom stuffed wth walnuts".
Michael Douglas has had so much "freshening" that he looks like a woman.
Athenae - I posted this below, but it segs into your comment. There was another great letter to the ed. in the Dallas paper this AM. Wish I had started keeping count back when these first started showing up - 'cause there have been a lot now. Guy said he's a lifelong Repug because he's a fiscal conservative who believed the Democrats were the "tax and spend" party. He's been totally betrayed by the Bush Repugs who have turned the Repug party into the borrow and spend party. He finishes by saying he ain't voting Repug in November.
Bush is such toast.
Wait - you fellers are saying that MoDo will talk about John Kerry's buttocks tomorrow. This is a major coup, no?
Oh... shit. I've got to get better glasses.
OT, but Lou Dobbs is polling a question well worth answering: "Do you believe there should be an independent investigation into prewar intelligence on Iraq?" It's currently at 93% for "Yes".
When aesthetic procedures go over into Michael Jackson territory, then it's gotten pathological, and weird. Otherwise, I don't understand what the deal is or why anyone is interested. I really don't.
These guys know they are going to be on camera constantly. They also know that how they look will make a difference to some voters. With so much that's available now, it's crazy not to take advantage of what's out there.
There are some who claim to this day that if Nixon hadn't sweat so profusely during his debates with Kennedy, the outcome of the election might have been different. It's obvious that most presidents in recent times have died their hair. Then they slowly take it to grey while they are in office. (Except Old Raygun, whose white roots were showing by the end of his term.) Well, that's just the way things go in the TV age. And you can be sure every one of the candidates has an image consultant of some kind making those suggestions.
Beth: Similar OT here (BBC Talking Point on possible WMD inquiry).
We could have a write like Modo contest. We could call it QuasiMoDo Day.
Beth - I just voted - still 93% yes.
But it is interesting what sticks along these lines and what doesn't. Kerry may or may not use botox - who cares?
Tom DeLay referred to Clark as a "blow-dried Napoleon" (back before he announced when the general was talking how crappy Rummy's war planning was on CNN).
Now as for medical news that really matters, like the Dick Cheney's heart (or the hardened fennel seed that passes for one), how's it doing?
Athenae & Tena--From your keyboards to God's monitor.
Tena, I believe certain sections of the British media have been making merciless fun of Tony Blair's thinning hair, slightly crazed forced grin, and stress lines marring what was such a youthful, optimistic face in 1997.
It's something for the media to do, and a lot of the public are likely to get suckered into it, I agree. The worrying thing is when you get an industry of image-people on the counterattack... yeah, these are public people, but we ought to remember they're human beings too, with all their foibles.
oops - incomplete thought. I meant to write:
Tom DeLay referred to Clark as a "blow-dried Napoleon" (back before he announced when the general was talking how crappy Rummy's war planning was on CNN). Here's hoping Clark's team has already worked up three different ad versions featuring that clip.
"If Kerry gets elected, will he become.........Presid-ENT?
Get it? Ent? The tree-people from Lord of the Rings? Get it? Huh?
See? Even right-wingers can make up funny stuff.
Talk about leading with your chin...
Publius II"
Wingers can only find something funny at someone else's expense, if you call that funny. That prior comment is exactly what would would hear from a caller into Hannity or Limbaugh's radio show.
OT-esque, but--If the ability to beat Bush is the main thing we're looking for in a candidate--or I'm looking for, anyway--no kidding, how do you tell? Here in St.Atriosberg, we only confer with each other.
No, I'm around for a few minutes.
Pretend for the sake of argument that you're one of the voters who went for Bush in 2000, never dreaming he'd turn out to be such a screw-up. You're now fairly disgusted with Bush, but when you look across the aisle at CDE&K, who do you see that you like? Or who you dislike less than Bush?
You're making a misassumption with your basic premise. I, and if I may be so bold as to speak for the majority of Republicans, do not think that he turned into a screw-up.
I am very unhappy about the guest-worker program. I am very unhappy about a budget-busting Medicare bill.
But I believe in my heart of hearts that what are doing/have done in Afghanistan and Iraq was right and necessary - and most Republicans, and many Democrats, probably feel the same way.
Howard Dean gained so much traction with his anti-war stance that he pulled the rest of the field to the left with him - except of course Joe Lieberman. Therefore, unless the Democrat nominee changes his stance after the convention, I fully expect him to run an anti-war campaign. And despite polls, I truly believe that when it comes time to pull the lever in the voting booth, national security is going to be on the forefront of the majority of voters' minds.
continued...
...continued
So the short answer is that I look across the aisle and I can see no-one, absolutely no-one, that would cause me to switch over and vote for a Democrat.
I'm not putting this out for a debate on issues. I'm just giving you a sense of what one Republican thinks.
Howard Dean gained so much traction with his anti-war stance that he pulled the rest of the field to the left with him - except of course Joe Lieberman. Therefore, unless the Democrat nominee changes his stance after the convention, I fully expect him to run an anti-war campaign. And despite polls, I truly believe that when it comes time to pull the lever in the voting booth, national security is going to be on the forefront of the majority of voters' minds.
continued...
Publius II
The reason that most people "might" support the Iraqi war is because the media hasn't done their jobs explaining it and the administration has done their best to keep the losses from being seen. Don't believe me? Then why the fuck did over 70% of the American public believe that Iraq had something to do with 911?
"So the short answer is that I look across the aisle and I can see no-one, absolutely no-one, that would cause me to switch over and vote for a Democrat.
I'm not putting this out for a debate on issues. I'm just giving you a sense of what one Republican thinks.
Publius II"
Who cares what you think. Get the fuck off my screen.
I'm not so sure about who's got that crossover appeal, Molly. I live among Republicans and military reserve types, and they're the folks who first got me interested in Dean, a good seven months ago. They liked his style and the fact that he didn't seem like an accursed 'liberal' -- you know, solid on guns, solid on not coddling criminals, blah, blah. At the same time, they hiss and spit at the mention of Kerry, because of that 'liberal' thing.
Seriously, I'm less worried about the party privileging electability over principle than I am about my sense that worries about electability are actually pushing us toward the less electable candidate.
What I've got is anecdotal, obviously, and based on only one area. Kerry could do fine with moderates and Republicans ready to jump ship. Or we could turn out not to need those voters after all. But I can't say I'm confident about that.
I'm just giving you a sense of what one Republican thinks.
Thanks, Publius II, for your thoughts. My thoughts are that you're absolutely wrong especially about the war. How can you possibly continue to support it? What on earth would it take for you to conclude that it was a horrible abuse of power and a huge mistake?
Aren't you the least bit worried that we're going to be on the short end of this stick in the future, that we will have achieved not ONE of the lofty goals about which some of you fantasize?
"Arnold Gropenführer] looks like a condom full of walnuts."
- Clive James
TheaLogie - Oh I totally agree with you. I don't know why image gets as much attention as it does - I've heard and read explanations, and usually it boils down to TV. I think that's right - the picture is worth so much now, because it's fast, accessible and there.
But of course it's shallow. And I do believe that while it is a factor, most people are not voting looks.
No offence, Publius, but I'd be wary of saying that 'Dean has dragged the Dems to the left'. Being anti-war is not ipso facto being left-wing; it could be construed as a strand of 'grassroots' anti-Bush sentiment, which it suits some Dems to tag along with. Even if it is true, some sections of the electorate might not mind having some change in the kinds of people they vote for. The 'New' in 'New Labour' was one of the things that got Blair to power in the UK in '97.
Regarding the losses, Wild Eye, the media keeps the tally running on a daily basis. Personally, I don't need to see the coffins to feel sick about the death of a young American, and I believe the families of these heroes should be granted the privacy they deserve. It's been thus for decades.
As for TLM doing their jobs and explaining it, it's possible that they have done a good job, and that rational people are drawing rational conclusions - just as you have. But everyone has a different perspective, obviously, and a different set of beliefs.
pie - talking about cross over and all the rest, I just have to say that there was another letter in the Dallas paper today from a "lifelong Republican" who said he feels totally betrayed by the Bush Republicans and he isn't voting Repug in November.
Also, my non- Dem husband, who is well aware of how upset I've been over the direction the country has been going in, looked over at me while we were watching Bill Maher last night and said: "See, I told you not to worry so much. The country is swinging back your way. I told you it would." This is a guy who reads the WSJ every day. If he sees it, then I'm not dreaming it up.
"So the short answer is that I look across the aisle and I can see no-one, absolutely no-one, that would cause me to switch over and vote for a Democrat.
Just asking, do you not care what's happening to this country? or do you actually think things are going well? It doesn't bother you that Bushco is completely incompetent, that he's responsible for the deaths of over 500 american lives, the maiming of thousands of others, and the squandering of $200 billion dollars in a war we didn't need to fight against an enemy that wasn't a threat?
Or maybe you've got your benefits and that's all that matters.
OT, but has anyone looked at CJR's campaign desk today? They report that not one media outlet has asked the question: what are WMDRPA?
See Sarek's post on it.
They report that not one media outlet has asked the question: what are WMDRPA?
Maybe because it's a fucking stupid question. No one bought it.
"As for TLM doing their jobs and explaining it, it's possible that they have done a good job, and that rational people are drawing rational conclusions - just as you have. But everyone has a different perspective, obviously, and a different set of beliefs.
Publius II"
Ok twit, if there is a "Liberal Media", then why did over 70% of the American public prior to the war believe that Iraq had something to do with 911?
Who cares what you think. Get the fuck off my screen.
Molly from NYC was wondering, upthread, about who Republicans could look at on the Dem side as an alternative to Bush. I was responding to her. Sorry if I stepped on your board here, Lefty.
Being anti-war is not ipso facto being left-wing; it could be construed as a strand of 'grassroots' anti-Bush sentiment, which it suits some Dems to tag along with. Even if it is true, some sections of the electorate might not mind having some change in the kinds of people they vote for.
Who knows, Thea. A lot can happen, between now and November, that could lead to a Bush landslide, or a Bush defeat. We'll see.
Explain to me what is different between her and Real time?
By the way on the Real Time photos Kerry not only had the botox but dyed his hair.
So much for " vanity they name is woman".
"Who knows, Thea. A lot can happen, between now and November, that could lead to a Bush landslide, or a Bush defeat. We'll see.
Publius II"
We're going to crush you things in November and we're going to see that you cranks never rise again.
Go sign up to be a cop in Baghdad since you think it was such a great idea.
Who knows, Thea. A lot can happen, between now and November, that could lead to a Bush landslide, or a Bush defeat. We'll see.
Publius II
This is my October Surprise scenario: Reagan dies and Bush is seen comforting Nancy, grieving in the front row, consoling the nation on the loss of a great American.
And if Ronnie doesn't die before November, Rove holds a pillow over his face.
Or maybe you've got your benefits and that's all that matters.
four legs good
Being an Independent, and never voting for either party but willing to vote for Dean, I can say that since Carter no change in administration has affected my life. I chose Carter because that was when I started becoming aware of politics.
Reagan, Bush, Clinton factories left my area and min age jobs came in.
Maybe because I'm in a rural area, who knows.
So, I can understand how if one is not immediately effected they can see no real differences.
Aren't you the least bit worried that we're going to be on the short end of this stick in the future, that we will have achieved not ONE of the lofty goals about which some of you fantasize?
Of course I'm worried. But I believe that this is a risk we must take, pie.
Just asking, do you not care what's happening to this country? or do you actually think things are going well? It doesn't bother you that Bushco is completely incompetent, that he's responsible for the deaths of over 500 american lives, the maiming of thousands of others, and the squandering of $200 billion dollars in a war we didn't need to fight against an enemy that wasn't a threat?
Of course I care, Four Legs. The difference between you and I is in your last sentence - I believe the war was necessary, and that Saddam was a very real threat. We think differently, but because we think differently I don't think you're insane. We could both look at one another and say "you don't get it, do you", and both mean it.
Also, my non- Dem husband
Tena
Republican, fucking Bush voting Republican husband.
C'mon we all know you are a rich bitch married to a Republican.
You own a summer and winter home and vacation four months a year.
Your tanned hubby wnet through an airport they looked at him and you sympathized at blacks and DWB.
Don't try to play these word games to make it look better.
With a last name like Holingsworth and distant realtions with Burr and the other american aristocrat, just who do you think you are fooling?
Ok twit, if there is a "Liberal Media", then why did over 70% of the American public prior to the war believe that Iraq had something to do with 911?
Wild Eyed Lefty
MoDo is HOT.
and that Saddam was a very real threat.
Saddam is how old and supposedly has cancer? No, better get on another horse.
I bet I know what you're going to say.
"We think differently, but because we think differently I don't think you're insane. We could both look at one another and say "you don't get it, do you", and both mean it.
Publius II"
I'm sorry but anyone who thinks the media is liberal is insane.
looked over at me while we were watching Bill Maher last night and said: "See, I told you not to worry so much. The country is swinging back your way. I told you it would." This is a guy who reads the WSJ every day. If he sees it, then I'm not dreaming it up.
Tena
And if anything Maher, which I just watched proved that it is swinging Republicans way. It was damn near a Repub circle jerk. If Sean Astin is the best offense against Bush we really lost.
Tena, I think anonymous loves you.
The difference between you and I is in your last sentence - I believe the war was necessary, and that Saddam was a very real threat.
The difference between a thinking human being and a moronic brownshirt fuck, defined.
Thanks. Keep clapping!
I'm going out on a limb a little here, but everyone is so convinced that if Ronnie kicks it it will be good for Bush. I don't think Nancy Reagan likes Bush. No. 1 - she publicly came out in favor of stem cell research after Bush said there wasn't going to be any - and she tried to change his mind. Then when the insane idea of replacing FDR on the dime with Reagan came up, Nancy issued a public statement that neither she nor Ronnie wanted it. Nancy will love and promote a lot of Ronnie-memorializing. But those who seem so convinced that this will be the October surprise are overlooking the possibilities that Americans won't care that much, because of everything else that is going on, and the that Nancy won't let Bush make political points off of Ronnie's death.
Tena, I think anonymous loves you.
pie
I think anonymous has common sense and a memory.
Anonymous,
Being older than you (I'm guessing) I can see great changes in the environment, thanks to liberal policies. Huge differences. Ask someone in Cleveland the last the river caught fire.
As a taxpayer, Reagan's manipulations meant I paid more in payroll taxes, my car and other loan interest payments were no longer deductible, meaning I paid more income tax as well.
Under Republican deregulation we paid for the S&L redistribution of wealth (thanks, Neil) and now my 401K and retirement investments are fucked, partly because of Wendy and Phil Gramm's handiwork.
If you live in a small town, the chances are your local police and fire departments are short-handed because the men are in the Reserves or NG and in Iraq.
Anon, I think if you look a little more closely, you'll see lots of ways a change in administration might affect you directly. I've just begun to scratch the surface.
The difference between you and I is in your last sentence - I believe the war was necessary, and that Saddam was a very real threat.
You may believe that, but all the evidence says otherwise. You might argue with a fact, but it's still a fact (something Sully found out).
Ok twit, if there is a "Liberal Media", then why did over 70% of the American public prior to the war believe that Iraq had something to do with 911?
Wild Eyed Lefty
Wild Eyed Lefty
Ok twit, if there is a "Liberal Media", then why did over 70% of the American public prior to the war believe that Iraq had something to do with 911?
WEL, you know, I've wondered about that myself. The thing I found most interesting is that people continue to believe it to this day, even after the administration hawks themselves have said that it wasn't the case. Why do you think the media is the cause? I didn't think that they were pounding that viewpoint particularly hard.
I bet I know what you're going to say.
LOL. That's why it really doesn't pay to get involved in long discussions of issues like this. We BOTH know what's coming next. Though occasionally Lefty calls me some very creative names.
But by and large I respect the opinions voiced here, and I get a lot of laughs from the more humorous insults - even though they're hurled at my side.
Publius II, I want to apologize for how others are acting towards your opinions.
I think you as Republican need to worry as well. What conservative policy has Bush enacted over the past four years? Bush seems comfortable with nation-building, with expanding the budget recklessly, of having the federal government reach into every aspect of our lives from marriage to the arts.
Bush is not furthering conservative principles. He's slowly destroying each and every one of them for his own personal political gain. That's not a leader to me. That's an opportunist.
C'mon we all know you are a rich bitch married to a Republican.
And here I thought it was the Dems who engaged in class warfare. Now I just don't know what to think. It's all so confusing!
OT, but more of this, please:
COLUMBIA, S.C. -- Presidential candidate John F. Kerry yesterday took aim at Republicans for questioning Democrats' patriotism, and several fellow military veterans blasted President Bush as a failed commander in chief who once dodged military service and suffers from never having learned the lessons of war.
Speaking to about 250 veterans and South Carolina voters at a town-hall-style forum, four days before the state's primary, former US senator Max Cleland of Georgia introduced Kerry as a combat leader with the caring touch of Shakespeare's Henry V, while accusing Bush of shirking his military duty during the Vietnam era.
"We need somebody who has felt the sting of battle, not someone who didn't even complete his tour stateside in the Guard," said Cleland, who lost three limbs in Vietnam, in a reference to allegations that Bush, who stopped flying with the Texas Air National Guard in 1972, did not fulfill the last two years of his military obligation."
Kerry did not comment on Cleland's remarks, which echoed filmmaker Michael Moore's recent denunciation of Bush as a "deserter" and caused some embarrassment for candidate Wesley K. Clark, whom Moore is backing. Instead the Massachusetts senator offered his own retort to national GOP leaders who have recently criticized him as weak on national security because he has sometimes opposed higher defense spending, among other military proposals.
"I have a message for those who try to challenge the Democrats and say to them, `You're unpatriotic' or you're somehow stepping out of line if you question the United States or the policies of your country," Kerry told the audience. "I tell 'em, there's not a veteran here who doesn't know that what we fought for. And what we wished for -- even while we were serving -- was the right to question and that someone would question policies when they're wrong. When it's wrong, make it right."
Tena,
I'm sure Nancy will know how to be a good Republican if she needs to.
Having said that, a few Repubs are coming round - O'Neill, McCain on the Daily Show (fuck that was a brilliant interview - McCain said he went to NH during the primary, Stewart asked him which Democratic candidate he supported, and McCain paused, then answered, "I'm supporting President Bush," and curled his lipped and uttered a 'tsk' sound. Stewart caught it, the entire audience caught it, and the place almost erupted).
Publius, I didn't say you were insane, I just don't see how you can continue to support the war, because even Bushco's made man David Kay has admitted that there were no WMDs.
Let me say that again. There were no WMDs.
So how was he a threat to us? he didn't have the weapons, and if if he had, he didn't have the delivery system to get them anywhere. By they way, get a hold of the transcript of Greg Thielmann's interview with Aaron Brown on newsnight last night and come back and tell me again that the war was necessary and tell me that they weren't told that the intelligence was debatable.
So basically, tell us all again why you think Bush is so great for the country. I am genuinely baffled by people on the right, who seem to be basically reasonable people, who continue to defend the chimp. Unless you love big deficits and an intrusive, secretive government, what's to like? Or if you're a religous nutcase endtimer (you don't sound like it) who thinks the rapture is around the corner.
He sucks on the environment.
He sucks on education policy.
His war on terra is plain stupid (and I say that as someone who lost friends on 9/11)
He's squandered our international reputation and made us hated around the world.
I urge you to rethink this.
Kerry got his Botox injections at a Skull & Bones meeting!
>>We could both look at one another and say "you don't get it, do you", and both mean it.
Publius, though it might not always sound like it, most every anti-Iraq-war poster here came to the conclusion it was a bad thing when they weighed the facts. Logically weighed the facts. This notion you and your ilk have, that every public decision is somehow a matter of personal faith, is the reason so many of us dispise Bush. He--and you--are crushing democracy with your ignorance of dialogue and reason.
No preponderance of fact can possibly demonstrate that Sadam was a "very real threat." Unless you pull your head out of your ass/slash/prayerbook, you'll never understand that and rejoin the rest of the conscious human race.
And just like the odds are stacked against women worldwide ever suffering under the berka, the chances of the rest of us getting on your faith-based bandwagon are nil.
Except for the possibility of it happening under some kind of tyranny, right? Isn't that really what you're after?
Anon -
The Beach Boys' 'Monster Mash?' Not for nothin', but they stank that song up. Mike Love could murder even a piece of crap song like that one.
Go to the original - Bobby 'Boris' Pickett.
"Bush is not furthering conservative principles."
Assuming for the moment that such a thing as conservative principles do exist, let's take a look at the top three:
Smaller Government.
State's Rights.
Fiscal Responsibility.
Now, let's take a look at Bush's record:
The government is larger now than ever.
States can do what they want as long as it's also what the Federal government want - ex. medicinal marijuana laws.
The budget has grown by 40% since Bush took office and the deficits are being funded by the Chinese government, making us economically dependent on a communist government.
Hmmm, doesn't look too conservative to me, Publius. How about you?
But by and large I respect the opinions voiced here, and I get a lot of laughs from the more humorous insults
I was not insulting you. Just playing Miss Cleo.
Publius II - Do you honestly think that national security trumps the economy in the voting booth? I don't, despite how much the Bush administration is counting on that being the case. Bush economics aren't even good enough to be voodoo economics - they are just senseless numbers. I don't think he understands the first, second, or third thing about economics.
And you know, the country's economy is an important element of its security. And our economy is in terrible shape.
The Beach Boys' 'Monster Mash?' Not for nothin', but they stank that song up. Mike Love could murder even a piece of crap song like that one.
Go to the original - Bobby 'Boris' Pickett.
stranger
I was rushed.
That's fine twit, go ahead become vague and fade instead of answering the question directly. I'll answer answer it directly for you:
The reason the public believed that Iraq had something to do with 911 was because the administration insinuated that Iraq did and the "right-wing corporate media" clearly didn't dispute that with facts which a liberal media would have. The media is obviously slanted toward the republicans. Any logically thinking person can see that unless they're insane. So you, logically, must be insane.
Dave, honestly I don't think they're all brownshit fucked up morons. I think some of them are just in serious, almost pathalogical denial. But thanks anyway dude.
I'm more than happy to civily debate you guys (righties) on the issues, all day and all night. Cause we're right and you guys are wrong.
and anon? fucking lay off Tena, she's here day in day out, talking civilly about the issues. Gratuitous insults make you look silly and juvenile.
Having said that, a few Repubs are coming round - O'Neill, McCain on the Daily Show (fuck that was a brilliant interview - McCain said he went to NH during the primary, Stewart asked him which Democratic candidate he supported, and McCain paused, then answered, "I'm supporting President Bush," and curled his lipped and uttered a 'tsk' sound. Stewart caught it, the entire audience caught it, and the place almost erupted).
I saw that, and it was great, but the next day it was business as usual for McCain. He tells the audience what they want to hear?
It WAS a bit of a slam anyway.
"I tell 'em, there's not a veteran here who doesn't know that what we fought for. And what we wished for -- even while we were serving -- was the right to question and that someone would question policies when they're wrong. When it's wrong, make it right."
dave
Did Kerry go ont to explain why he could other peoples children off to die for Haliburton? Did he then rationalize how he could to vote to illegaly circumvent the constitution?
Fuck the dead looking lying bastard.
Magnum - Nancy is a good Republican, no doubt about it. But first and foremost, she is Mrs. Reagan. Talk about adoring looks - it used to be enough to make me gag.
Anyway, it all is speculation. Ronnie could expire at any second, and it's hard to know what the result will be when he does. I know it won't be pretty - I still remember, very resentfully, how Richard Nixon's death morphed him into some kind of great statesman with all the pundits. That was truly grotesque. Nixon's entire career was built on ruining people's lives. There was not one laudable thing about him, but once he died everyone had only good things to say. Hypocrites.
dave,
That was from the Boston Globe, who broke the story int he first place a few years ago. They could have stated it more forcefully. Anyway, it looks like some of the AWOL shit is starting to at least leave a stain before it slides off.
Also check out David Neiwert's blog at http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/
2004_01_25_dneiwert_archive.html#10753084091866436
9 (wonder if Haloscan will strip the '#'). George McGovern is asked about the AWOL thing, and the interviewer (one John Siegenthaler) is horrified when McGovern says "People like that [himself and Clark and others who served] are not going to defend George W. Bush on his military record."
Ha ha!
and anon? fucking lay off Tena, she's here day in day out, talking civilly about the issues. Gratuitous insults make you look silly and juvenile.
four legs good
So, you think tena with her four months a year vacation can understand your menial job? Her with her two homes, one summer and one winter, comprehends how one has to balance that less than two hundred a week take home.
Nothing personal, but if you want to be a bootlick for the rich wether Republican or Democrat that is fine.
And you may have missed her commentary where she decided only moderates like herself should be in politics.
tena may post here, but she has very little really in comon with most of us.
Thank you, me, for your words.
I guess I'm foreign-policy driven - because I, like so many other conservatives, as you have been no doubt hearing lately, are really angry about Bush's spending. But the War on Terrorism pretty much defines the role of the American President to me after 9/11, and I could vote for a Democrat only if he were so Republican you guys wouldn't have him - a la Zell Miller.
As for the Defense of Marriage thing, didn't that happen under Clinton? Either way, I think it's ridiculous, I don't care who you marry. But Bush does, as does much of his constituency, so he gets votes and it's not a deal breaker for me.
Anon,
I've heard Kerry explain that vote, and while I'm not happy he voted the way he did, he does offer the rationale of voting to allow force as a last resort.
Anyone who's earned a Silver Star and then came home to lead the VVAW has earned my respect.
My vote? Well, not yet, but if he's the nominee, he's got that too.
tena may post here, but she has very little really in comon with most of us
You, anonymous, don't know anything about Tena.
You're quite the snob, aren't you?
Tena
http://www.ardemgaz.com/prev/
Cli...tongaz0874.html
Clinton, a law professor at the University of Arkansas, said there was "no question that an admission of making false statements to government officials and interfering with the FBI and the CIA is an impeachable offense."
http://www.watergate.info/nixon/...l-
clinton.shtml
When he became President, he took on challenges here at home on matters from cancer research to environmental protection, putting the power of the federal government where Republicans and Democrats had neglected to put it in the past; in foreign policy. He came to the presidency at a time in our history when Americans were tempted to say we had had enough of the world. Instead, he knew we had to reach out to old friends and old enemies alike. He would not allow America to quit the world.
Remarkably, he wrote nine of his 10 books after he left the presidency, working his way back into the arena he so loved by writing and thinking, and engaging us in his dialogue.
For the past year, even in the final weeks of his life, he gave me his wise counsel, especially with regard to Russia. One thing in particular left a profound impression on me. Though this man was in his ninth decade, he had an incredibly sharp and vigorous and rigorous mind.
Publius II,
You're welcome to take Lieberman too.
You're quite the snob, aren't you?
pie
You are quite the moron aren't you.
I thought only the rich can be snobs?
Hey Anon, guess what? I don't have a fucking MENIAL job. You don't have a clue who I am, where I grew up or what I'm about.
Maybe you have a menial job? You know, you really don't know what most of the people here do for a living, so quit making generalizations. And the idea that someone who's well off can't imagine or understand someone else's predicament is just goofy.
Besides, you don't know where she started out in life. I think you just don't like her opinions so you find a reason to disregard them rather than looking at the merit of the argument.
Typical right wing M.O. Them people is liburel.... they gotta be crazy!!
You know the question I wish some Diane Sawyer type would ask Bush?
"Mr. President, we've been hearing quite disturbing reports about your brother, Neil. It's come out that he has had sex with underage prostitutes, for example. As a born again Christian, do you not feel that it is your duty to try to persuade your brother to come to Jesus?"
Of course the Chimpus would likely go into some kind of christian song and dance. Still, it would be worth it to hear the question.
Anon,
Some of our greatest leaders came from money. FDR, JFK, RFK, Jay Rockefeller from W.Va. are just four I can name. You don't have to have been poor to care about providing a just and equal society for all of us.
Anon,
I've heard Kerry explain that vote, and while I'm not happy he voted the way he did, he does offer the rationale of voting to allow force as a last resort.
Anyone who's earned a Silver Star and then came home to lead the VVAW has earned my respect.
My vote? Well, not yet, but if he's the nominee, he's got that too.
cosmic grappler
And that is clearly bullshit!
Graham knew damn well how that bill was structured. The majority of Democrats voted AGAINST it.
http://www.tompaine.com/feature2...re2.cfm/ID/
9843
While all of the Democratic presidential candidates (except Sen. Joseph Lieberman) criticize President George W. Bush for his unilateral recklessness in starting a war against Iraq, they are missing a larger point: The invasion was not just reckless. It was unconstitutional.
It is time to set the record straight. The United States Congress never voted for the Iraq war. Rather, Congress voted for a resolution in October 2002 which unlawfully transferred to the president the decision-making power of whether to launch a first-strike invasion of Iraq. The United States Constitution vests the awesome power of deciding whether to send the nation into war solely in the United States Congress.
Those members of Congress—including certain Democratic presidential candidates—who voted for that October resolution cannot now claim that they were deceived, as some of them do. By unlawfully ceding the war-declaring power to the president, they allowed the president to start a war against Iraq based on whatever evidence or whatever lies he chose. The members of Congress who voted for that October resolution are as complicit in this illegal war as is the president himself.
Congress cannot transfer to the president its exclusive power to declare war any more than it can transfer its exclusive power to levy taxes. Such a transfer is illegal. These are non-delegable powers held only by the United States Congress.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 01.29.04 - 11:43 am | #
Let me say it one more time-
If you guys want to debate the issues and respond to the fucking merits of the arguments, by all means do so.
Since you can't, you adopt that time honored republican tactic of ad hominem personal attacks and character smears.
Don't listen to Tena, her husband makes money!!!! pssssst, pass it on.
Idiot.
"As for the Defense of Marriage thing, didn't that happen under Clinton? Either way, I think it's ridiculous, I don't care who you marry. But Bush does, as does much of his constituency, so he gets votes and it's not a deal breaker for me.
Publius II"
The most far left we have in our party are tree-huggers and they're mostly Greens. So it must suck that most in your party are sweaty-faced Armageddon or Bust whack-jobs who insist on conducting the foreign policy of the only superpower using religious text written 3000 years ago by primitive goat-herders while nosing into other's bedrooms. You really need to keep better company. I'm embarrassed for you, really.
Publius, one of the great conservatives of this country and also a son of a former President, John Quincy Adams, once said that American foreign policy must never be based on the concept of "seeking monsters to destroy." Hussein was a monster and I feel terribly for his people, my heart and prayers are with
them. But he was a monster of a former century, a dictator. The strategy of confronting dictators is not the strategy we need to confront terrorists.
Please don't look at the Democrats as disengaged from foreign policy or unwilling to confront terror forcefully. Some of this countries' bravest defenders were liberals (see FDR or Marshall) and every Democrat is in their tradition.
Wouldn't you have rather have had 200,000 of our men on the ground in Afghanistan going out to fight and find Bin Laden, Mullah Omar, and the rest of the Al'Qaeda thugs? Those are the people who attacked us and killed 3,000 of our people. Those are the people who are the threat to us, now. The ones cancelling our airline flights, the ones blowing up our embassies and killing our soldiers, not Saddam Hussein.
Do you not worry about the closeness between elements of the ISI (Pakistan's intelligence agency), Al'Qaeda, and Pakistan's nuclear scientists?
Do you not think that Iraq delayed and diverted our attention?
And who controls Iraq policy? Can you name the go to guy. After WW II we could. It was Marshall in Europe and MacArthur in Japan. But in Iraq? We have Baker, Bremer, Wolfowitz, Powell, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice. Baker isn't even officially in the government. This hodge podge is an absence of leadership that a President cannot allow. And it puts our boys at risk.
"The United States Constitution vests the awesome power of deciding whether to send the nation into war solely in the United States Congress."
I said this when I was a young man in the VVAW. I said this when we helped overthrow Allende. I said this when we supported the Contras. I said this when we supported the thugs in Guatemala and El Salvador. I said this when we went into Panama. I said this when we went into Granada. I said this when we went into Kuwait. I said this when we went into Iraq.
I've been saying this for so long that my voice is hoarse.
But I've also learned to stop beating my head against the wall.
because even Bushco's made man David Kay has admitted that there were no WMDs.
I'm gonna sneak in the last word here, four, and then I have to give up the computer to another family member who's been waiting patiently.
Did not Kay also say - much to Kennedy's consternation - that even though they found no WMD, that Iraq was a "much more dangerous place than even we had imagined"? Or something to that effect?
Thank you all for the conversation, and goodnight. Tribeca awaits.
Some of our greatest leaders came from money. FDR, JFK, RFK, Jay Rockefeller from W.Va. are just four I can name. You don't have to have been poor to care about providing a just and equal society for all of us.
cosmic grappler
The Kennedy's came from a family of smugglers. Almost as if Capone would have gone into politics. Capone provided soup kitchens during the depression.
Rockefeller I can't really comment on, but I seen to recall a number of defenses of Bush and the war.
By the way, did any of the Democrats request NOT to accept their recent raise until those millions of unemployed go back to work?
How many Democrats have refused their health care coverage until every single american has the same benefits as them selves?
What about the other little perks, how many gave those up?
I was reading about Japan, and the CEO's do what is best for the ENTIRE corporation, little guy and big guy. They consider everyone when making decisions. If the group suffers, they feel as if they suffer as well.
We need more of that.
Rich people do things out of theory. That could be why George Bernard Shaw went native so to speak.
One can not comprehend hunger until one is hungry.
I have no problem if she speaks from her position of wealth and power.
But, please do not pretend that she speaks for the average american.
The average american who will never see a four months vacation, unless unemployed. Or have a summer and winter home.
Even though I have disagreed with you before, you are closer to the average american than she ( and probably pie) is.
But I've also learned to stop beating my head against the wall.
cosmic grappler
That is when evil wins.
That is exactly what they want you to do, stop.
"much more dangerous place than even we had imagined"
He did, and I completely disagree, but we can debate that another time.
Shrimp is beckoning me!!!
"Thank you all for the conversation, and goodnight. Tribeca awaits.
Publius II"
creep
"president bush, your brother neil knocked up your mother's assistant...while they were btoh married to other people. How would your heterosexual marriage PR campaign help them?"
Wild Eyed Lefty, don't let them get under your skin.
Just think how miserable they'll be in November!!
It'll be more fun that a barrell of monkeys. 
I thought only the rich can be snobs?
Well, you thought wrong, as evidenced by your behavior. You regard someone's opinion invalid because she has more money than you. I believe it's called reverse snobbery.
Grow up. The point is that you don't know anything about any of us. Your stupid generalizations are foolish.
pie,
My life is an open book. Not a very interesting one, but it's open.
I have to go hear a guitar player named Cool John Ferguson, a guy Taj Mahal said was one of the five bext players in the country.
Oh, yeah, play the blues.
I'm a lucky, and very grateful man.
Publius II, I suggest you visit Talking Points Memo and read what Josh has to say about David Kay.
Well, CBSnews has a poll out now that Bush only leads a generic democratic challenger in S. Carolina by 45-43.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/
2...ain597064.shtml
If a Republican is having trouble in S. Carolina, imagine how he's going to fair everywhere else.
Well, you thought wrong, as evidenced by your behavior. You regard someone's opinion invalid because she has more money than you. I believe it's called reverse snobbery.
Grow up. The point is that you don't know anything about any of us. Your stupid generalizations are foolish.
pie
You are a fatous ass.
Why are you commenting anyway?
Are you her?
How much do you know about her?
Been to her home? Go to a bar with her and the Repub hubby?
Tell us why she doesn't deserve inspection?
before I go, here's something:
(x) (x)
Left wing boobies!! (since woot seems to be absent.
That was mostly for you, Wild Eyed Lefty.
n69n - Ooh, good question. I likes it, I likes it a lot.
Bye, anonymous.
Go take another bitter pill.
Did Kerry go ont to explain --
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
"Wild Eyed Lefty, don't let them get under your skin.
Just think how miserable they'll be in November!!
It'll be more fun that a barrell of monkeys.
four legs good"
They don't get to me four legs. I enjoy having the opportunity they allow me to tell them to fuck off. I don't know why anyone has to accommodate them, though. They're hopeless, "crushing democracy with their ignorance of dialogue and reason" types which would make them the easiest to convince to look the other way while the rest of us are loaded in boxcars and disappeared.
And, as always, ignore the brownshirts.
There'll be plenty of 'em clogging up the ether between now and November. $200 mil buys a lot of morons...
Lerxst was wrong, sort of. It's Botulinium toxin, not botox. And Condi, not Kerry.
"Thank you all for the conversation, and goodnight. Tribeca awaits.
Publius II"
And I know you're still reading these comments.
loser
Go take another bitter pill.
pie
Please, you may deal with your problems (or the minor trial and tribulations) in a Limbaughian way, but many of us do not.
http://nytimes.com/2004/02/01/op...ion/
01DOWD.html
nope, not about botox or kerry
And I know you're still reading these comments.
loser
Wild Eyed Lefty
Why would immediately assume that someone who had been consistently involved in a discussion and claims to leave doesn't?
cosmic grappler left, I trust him on that.
penalcolony - thanks for the link. MoDo did a pretty good job on this one.
"Saddam was isolated. And the Bush hawks wanted to isolate themselves from less-paranoid allies. They had come into office itching to replay the '91 war and try out their democracy domino theory in the Middle East — mirror imaging writ large. They grabbed 9/11 as an opening, yanked power away from Colin Powell and persuaded the popular diplomat to compromise his integrity by touting sketchy evidence at the U.N., with the puppet Tenet as his wingman."
Not too bad for MoDO
Tena: You're most welcome. Meanwhile, Friedman morphs into Krugman. Pretty decent op-ed day at the NYTimes.
Oh I would trust cosmic grappler on that score, too.
But I never say I'm leaving when I leave. I just sort of wander off. Wingers always say they're leaving but I just know they're still hanging around reading what's said about them. That's just the way they are.
Yeah, and Marilyn Quayle had a strap-on. What of it?
"And please don't tell me the tax cuts are working. Of course they're working! If you put this much stimulus into our economy — three tax cuts, loose monetary policy and out-of-control spending — it will produce a boom. Eat 10 chocolate bars at once and you'll also get a rush. But at what long-term cost?"
This line from Friedmans piece is a great answer.
Hey, I got a menial job. Tena, if you need some lefty credibility, I'll be happy to swap places for a while.
"Also, my non- Dem husband, who is well aware of how upset I've been over the direction the country has been going in, looked over at me while we were watching Bill Maher last night and said: "See, I told you not to worry so much. The country is swinging back your way. I told you it would." This is a guy who reads the WSJ every day. If he sees it, then I'm not dreaming it up.
Tena "
Or he might have been looking for a little sugar later in the evening. These things happen, you know.
Backslider - thanks for the offer, sweetie. I think I got my official menial job points working in the grocery store in Colorado for 3 years in a row to finance my stay there. I ran the only cash register (people lined up all the way out the door in July, getting pissed off,) helped unload the truck on Wednesdays when the owner came back with the week's order, and then stocked shelves. Usually the frozen food and the drug items - worst stocking jobs in the store, and that's saying a lot. I even got up at 2 AM and made the truck run with the owner one week when his regular helper couldn't make it. Then summer before last, I worked in a gift shop - thought it would be easier. Ha ha ha. I ended up washing the store's windows, planting all the flowers she bought for out front, breaking down all the boxes and cleaning the bathroom. And waiting on the customers. That'll do it for me for awhile. Thanks for the offer.
Enoch - he really doesn't have to try. That's why I married him - well that, and he's the best dancer I've ever known.
What do you want her to write about--welfare reform?
penalcolony - with all these formerly gutless media types suddenly deciding to get on board the bash Bush mobile, I am waiting now for the mea culpas. And if they aren't forthcoming, I think these people need to be reminded of some of their previous stands. Especially Mr. Friedman.
Tena: I don't plan to hold my breath until those mea culpas arrive. For the time being, I'll savor Friedman's "Too many Americans, including me, believe in their guts that removing Saddam was the right thing to do, even if the W.M.D. intel was wrong." Sounds much better out of context, no?
(since woot seems to be absent.)
I've got the flu, for crying out loud! Mrs. w00t *and* baby w00t had it, and I'm next in line.
Thanks for filling in 4legs!
Get out of your funk...go listen to a Johnny Rotten interview.
http://www.okeydokeykaraoke.com/
...RottenandI1.mp3
woot, sorry you're sick- I was happy to take up the slack.
Get well, I really liked the troll boobies.
Shorter Friedman: Balh, blah, Iraq war, blah, blah good, blah, no WMDs, doesn't matter, blah.
It's the economy, stupid. Good.
wOOty - All the little wOOts were sick - oh, I am sorry. Hope you're better. Hope you didn't get whatever it is I got on new years, since I thought I'd never get rid of it.
And now I have a toothache. There is no justice.
Really I hope you wOOts get all better soon. We always miss you when you aren't here.
penalcolony - No, I doubt that we'll be hearing any self-blame any time soon. They have short memories that way. The whores.
The media needs to be pushed to find an angle to keep the primary season going. They are looking for a way to anoint a winner to take on Bush. All of the BIG FOUR should stay in the race. The sad thing is that the "mainstream" media will not attack a candidate unless directed from the right wing echo chamber. I think that Kerry needs to be questioned and scrutinized like Dean was. This will allow Clark or Edwards to move into the frontrunner position. Thus allowing the BIG FOUR to continue on. The longer the BIG FOUR hang around and attack Bush, the better the chance we will send Bush back to collecting a paycheck sitting on the board of some company that his daddy gets him a job at. What we need to start concentrating on is pushing this story for the media to pick up on. This is obviously what scares Rove the most. A long Democratic Primary season where he sees stories like the one in NH where the Democratic candidates are getting write-in votes from Republican primary voters. We must act as the left-wing echo chamber and push the BIG FOUR as the candidates of choice over Bush. Pretty soon the media will start saying that anyone of the four can beat Bush. With these four qualified candidates still vying for the position and all the bad news for Bush he is toast. Just think of everything coming up that is going to hurt Bush. Iraq everyday, Supreme court decision in Cheney Energy Task Force, new news on Plame investigation, intelligence investigation of Bush admin manipulation of intelligence, Halliburton, 911 commission, etc. That's why Kerry is not getting attacked by the right wing echo chamber.
Erik - I agree with your comment completely. I think a long close primary race is a godsend for us. It keeps the people focused on the Democrats. Once there is clearly a nominee, then the Bush Rover machine goes into high gear. I don't see any advantage to letting Bush have longer to try to make a case for election.
why did Michael ditch MoDo for Catherine Zeta-Jones?
Shit, I'd dump my significant other for CZJ--and I'm a straight female.
Latest from the Guardian:
The war between the BBC and the Government was re-ignited last night after a series of leaked documents revealed growing insistence within the corporation that there are fundamental flaws in Lord Hutton's report.
A confidential briefing document taking to task key findings by the Ulster judge reveals that executives throughout the BBC believe that the inquiry report was blatantly one-sided and took little account of the corporation's evidence.
Tennis, anyone?
To the Anonymous troll who thought it clever to post the lyrics of "Monster Mash" as a way of dissing Kerry:
Here is a little something for the Unelected Fraud to post on his website, with all due apologies to The Coasters:
Searchin'
Well now if I have to swim a river, you know I will,
And if I have to climb a mountain you know I will.
And if they're hiding up on a blueberry hill,
I'm gonna find them
child, you know I will.
Cause I've been searching, oh yeah, searching,
My goodness, searching every which a-way. Yeah. Yeah.
But I'm like the Northwest Mountie,
You know I'll bring them in some day. Gonna find them.
Well Sherlock Holmes, Sam Spade got nothing, child, on me.
Sergeant Friday, charlie Chan, and Boston Blackie.
No matter where they're hiding, they're gonna hear me
Cause I'm gonna walk right down that street,
Like Bulldog Drummond because I've been searching,
Oh Lord, searching, mm child, searching every which a-way. Yeah. Yeah.
You know I'll bring them in some day. Gonna find them.
pie - Goody. I love it. Fight back fight back fight back.
Publius II--Thanks for the well-considered answer.
You're making a misassumption with your basic premise. I, and if I may be so bold as to speak for the majority of Republicans, do not think that he turned into a screw-up.
Roughly 40% of the voters are going to vote Republican (including you, I suspect) no matter what and about the same number will vote for the Dems no matter what (which these days includes me). My post was about the 20% or so that are up for grabs. (Sorry that wasn't clearer.)
In 2000, they split right down the middle, but 9/11 notwithstanding, they'll lean our way this time.
For example, Stars and Stripes, hardly a left-wing publication, regularly publishes letters from active-duty soldiers (solidly in Bush's 2000 base) who find Bush's judgement and execution on security issues to be self-serving, ill-considered and worse than useless. And who takes this issue more seriously?
And those NASCAR dads may worry about terrorism once in a while, but they worry about paying the mortgage every damn day. You may not consider the job market to be Bush's fault, but to someone who's scary-broke, his monetary theories don't mean squat and neither do most other issues.
The soccer moms? They're moms. Kids in school. Really, of all the public-school teachers and/or mothers you know, how many think NCLB is worth a bucket of warm spit? Of those, how many are independant voters?
So, while you're right that the folks who always vote Republican will vote for Bush next November, I'm not so sure about everyone else.
maybe someone could do a lottery thing where people try to guess what inane crap maureen will spew next. wouldn't that be neat-o?!?!!
She disappointed you all. She did a rather decent column ripping Condi Rice and criticizing the administration. (It's already up -- http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/0...n/01DOWD.html.)
Gosh, if I got a substantial tax cut, and was sure my kids wouldn't get drafted, and knew Bush was doing everything he could to widen the gap between have and have not, why I'd probably vote for Bush too. That's real compassion for ya
OT: More Guardian goodness (2-1-04)
US officials knew in May Iraq possessed no WMD
'We had enough evidence at the beginning of May to start asking, "where did we go wrong?",' he said last week. 'We had already made the judgment that something very wrong had happened [in May] and our confidence was shaken to its foundations.'
The source, a career intelligence official who spoke on condition of anonymity, was also scathing about the massive scale of the failure of intelligence over Iraq both in the US and among its foreign allies - alleging that the intelligence community had effectively suppressed dissenting views and intelligence.
The claim is confirmed by other sources, as well as figures like David Albright, a former UN nuclear inspector with close contacts in both the world of weapons inspection and intelligence.
'It was known in May,' Albright said last week, 'that no one was going to find large stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons. The only people who did not know that fact was the public.'
Wow. There's a lot going on regarding the WMD situation, but you wouldn't know it reading Atrios.
Atrios == MoDo of the Blogosphere?
Gosh, if I got a substantial tax cut, and was sure my kids wouldn't get drafted, and knew Bush was doing everything he could to widen the gap between have and have not, why I'd probably vote for Bush too. That's real compassion for ya
Your worthless press!
Good lord, I was just watching the Crapital Gang and they showed a flashback to February or March of 2003, and out of all of those foolish, know-nothing, back slappers, who do you think said that the United States did not have the legal or moral authority to invade Iraq?
Bob Novak.
The only one. What does this tell us? That Bob Novak is a mammal?
Maybe, but I don't think so.
To me, it's the evidentiary equivalent of a two by four to the back of your head that the American mainstream media is so disfunctional to be a completely worthless source of information.
It is completely Opinionation. Corporately sponsored, and corporately owned.
And full of Spokesanchors.
'It was known in May,' Albright said last week, 'that no one was going to find large stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons. The only people who did not know that fact was the public.'
So bad, it had to repeated.
Gosh, if I got a substantial tax cut, and was sure my kids wouldn't get drafted, and knew Bush was doing everything he could to widen the gap between have and have not, why I'd probably vote for Bush too. That's real compassion for ya
How many hundreds of millions of dollars did Kay's lil' wild goose chase cost the American taxpayer again?
I'm sure the mouthbreathing freepers will be filled with consternation over the misuse of their hard-earned tax dollars.
Blah.
And those NASCAR dads may worry about terrorism once in a while, but...
Molly from the Big Apple, we need to have those people understand that Bush is a self-serving nincompoop in the struggle against terrorism, too. Which, by the way, he is.
If they don't, then all it will take is a another spectacular terror strike before the election, and the Dems are toast.
As it is, though, I sense that the issue of Bush's incompetence in geopolitics and waging war is starting to sink in. If the Dems keep emphasizing that Bush has actually played all of his cards poorly--has squandered US military might and made us internationally weaker--even another terror attack will hurt him. This makes me happy, because I think it reduces the chance of their actually being another attack.
I'm sorry, I'm trying to ween myself from the mouse and go all keyboard. I didn't mean to post at all, let alone three times. Sorry, won't happen again, I hope
Where does the Albright comment come from?
I suggest MoDo will spend another lonely night wondering why Michael Douglas abandoned her.
Hmmm...Maureen Dowd, Catherine Zeta-Jones. Maureen Dowd, Catherine Zeta-Jones. Let's think about this some more: Maureen Dowd, Catherine Zeta-Jones. A no-brainer.
Ricky - Clicky da linky... its from a story coming out today (tomorrow) in the London Guardian/Observer...
I'm sorry, I'm trying to ween myself from the mouse and go all keyboard. I didn't mean to post at all, let alone three times. Sorry, won't happen again, I hope
Does this mean that guy from the BBC will get his job back, or no?
I apologise and will back away from the keyboard.
Does this mean that guy from the BBC will get his job back, or no?
It means its Michael Jackson week.
I should have checked the TV guide and the court docket, Cornfed.
What is scheduled for when the 9/11 commission expires?
I'm guessing Kobe, Rush, and Lacy.
You know, just to be safe.
Thats actually what Faux had on today. They had some promotional screen showing, "Docket List" or something like that (the word 'Docket' appeared)...
They had 4 faces on the screen:
Kobe, Martha, Peterson and someone else, along with some freedom music.
"It was known in May," Albright said last week, "that no one was going to find large stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons. The only people who did not know that fact was the public."
Well, I'm a member of the public, and I knew it was bullshit, as any sentient being should have known. Furthermore, I knew it long before May. The tip-off was the three months of "he has them, trust us, and we'll show you the proof real soon" coming from the administration, which was followed in every instance by "proof" which was thoroughly debunked in every instance within a week to ten days. At which point the cycle would begin again...."he has them, trust us, and we'll show you the proof real soon"....
Perhaps the reason the rest of "the public" never caught on to the fact that it was bullshit is that in every instance, our liberal media would hype the alleged "proof" in endless rotation, then either fail completely to report that the "proof" had been debunked or would report it once in passing or bury it on page G18 of the paper.
Or maybe people really do lack the capacity to use their gray matter. It seems pretty straightforward to me that if you have solid evidence, that's what you would present to bolster your case, rather than hypotheticals that are deconstructed in short order. Perhaps I've just developed the dangerous habit of actually using my brain rather than filling it with whatever is served up by the media.
Went and read the latest MoDo, about Condi's "mirroring". What non-sense.
There was plenty of good solid information about the NonWMD. Condi and her ilk only "mirrored" to avoid having to think or make the kind of decisions they are paid to make. And as for Friedman, he is the lowest piece of offal imaginable. He still thinks we scared all them A-rabs. Dee-frickin-luded, and without a decent bone in his body. And of course, to contend with the supersized deficit we must cut social spending, not military, you know cuz that's where we really get our money's worth. Him and pubelius- two pubes in a pod.
Just to follow on my last comment: apparently Kerry, Edwards, and Lieberman are not sentient beings.
Jennifer,
We ALL knew it. That's what's so appalling. Hundreds of thousands of Americans took to the streets to say THEY knew it was bullshit, and the media reported "thousands", and then cut to tens of people waving American flags along a highway next to a military base.
Millions of people took to the streets in Europe--over one million in Rome, alone--and the New York Times reported, again, "thousands".
Maybe even tens of thousands!
Yes, one hundred tens of thousands...so they weren't lying.
Every single thing we know now--the uranium, the aluminum tubes, the "stove-piping" of intelligence--all of it was known and quietly reported BEFORE we rushed to war.
What a joke to hear these talking heads on TV acting so shocked that there may have been intelligence that was missed!!!
How could that happen!
Oh, shoot, I could go on, but I think I just got another nose bleed...
To the Anonymous troll who thought it clever to post the lyrics of "Monster Mash" as a way of dissing Kerry:
Here is a little something for the Unelected Fraud to post on his website, with all due apologies to The Coasters:
Searchin'
Well now if I have to swim a river, you know I will,
And if I have to climb a mountain you know I will.
And if they're hiding up on a blueberry hill,
I'm gonna find them
child, you know I will.
Cause I've been searching, oh yeah, searching,
My goodness, searching every which a-way. Yeah. Yeah.
But I'm like the Northwest Mountie,
You know I'll bring them in some day. Gonna find them.
Well Sherlock Holmes, Sam Spade got nothing, child, on me.
Sergeant Friday, charlie Chan, and Boston Blackie.
No matter where they're hiding, they're gonna hear me
Cause I'm gonna walk right down that street,
Like Bulldog Drummond because I've been searching,
Oh Lord, searching, mm child, searching every which a-way. Yeah. Yeah.
You know I'll bring them in some day. Gonna find them.
Plenty
Hey, that was what Kerry was singing before he stole Deans campaign speech ideas.
So Kerry has two today, Monster mash and Searchin.
Why did he have the botox and dye job? Thank maher for pointing that out.
Every single thing we know now--the uranium, the aluminum tubes, the "stove-piping" of intelligence--all of it was known and quietly reported BEFORE we rushed to war.
This thing stank like hell from the very beginning. We were in a war with Al-Queda and all of a sudden the emphasis is shifted over to Iraq for no apparent reason. Why this didn't set off the bullshit detector in every American is beyond my powers of comprehension.
Backslider - thanks for the offer, sweetie. I think I got my official menial job points working in the grocery store in Colorado for 3 years in a row to finance my stay there. I ran the only cash register (people lined up all the way out the door in July, getting pissed off,) helped unload the truck on Wednesdays when the owner came back with the week's order, and then stocked shelves. Usually the frozen food and the drug items - worst stocking jobs in the store, and that's saying a lot. I even got up at 2 AM and made the truck run with the owner one week when his regular helper couldn't make it. Then summer before last, I worked in a gift shop - thought it would be easier. Ha ha ha. I ended up washing the store's windows, planting all the flowers she bought for out front, breaking down all the boxes and cleaning the bathroom. And waiting on the customers. That'll do it for me for awhile. Thanks for the offer.
Tena
All this while monkeys flew out your ass.
Why this didn't set off the bullshit detector in every American is beyond my powers of comprehension.
Another Bruce
It did except for Kerry, Edwards, Lieberman and Hillary.
Hey, I got a menial job. Tena, if you need some lefty credibility, I'll be happy to swap places for a while.
Backslider
Yes, her and the Bush family are lining up for menial jobs.
Notice how that four week vacation truned into some work related holiday. And the Republican husband is Non-Dem?
She twists those words like the gathering danger/imminent threat comparison.
American bullshit detectors didn't go off for the same reason as this:
52% of Americans polled would not like to see Bush re-elected;
78% of Americans think he will be re-elected.
See the problem there? Americans no longer know what Americans think.
It must be that crazy liberal media!
But we've liberated all those Iraqis.
Saturday was a pay day and the station was crowded with staff at the time of the midmorning bombing, said police Lt. Mohammed Fadil. Five of the dead were police and the others were Iraqi civilians, policeman Khalid Ahmed said.
Severed limbs, some of them smoldering, and decapitated bodies littered the bloodied street after the attack, the sixth major vehicle bombing in Iraq in the past two weeks but the first in Mosul, the country's third-largest city and the principal metropolis in the north.
The blast gouged a huge crater in the street and shattered windows of nearby buildings. Pieces of burning car wreckage spewed acrid, black smoke. At least five cars were destroyed.
Stunned survivors stumbled down the street, their clothing soaked in blood. American soldiers in full combat gear hurried to the scene and cordoned the area. No U.S. troops were near at the time of the blast.
``I fell to the ground and hit my head,'' said Lt. Ahmed Abdul Kader, 30, who was inside the police station. ``I couldn't get up. There were people with horrible injuries all around me.''
But I never say I'm leaving when I leave. I just sort of wander off. Wingers always say they're leaving but I just know they're still hanging around reading what's said about them. That's just the way they are.
Wild Eyed Lefty
I always think the eyes get sore.
What really kills me is idiots that think someone who disagrees with them is someone haunting them from the past.
Just how egotistical does one have to be to think no more than one person will disagree with them?
It must be that crazy liberal media!
Ricky
That is what you get when you hire Frank Luntz as a pollster.
Anonymous, that comment wasn't made by Backslider, was it.
Take that bitter pill and try not to choke on it.
I don't know if you can just blame it on Frank Luntz. CNN told me today that I enjoy watching the Super Bowl mainly for the commercials.
And I've never even met CNN!
Back to MoDo - she's up on the online version. Nothing about Kerry, Botox, buttocks, or Michael Douglas. Better refill on gin before trying to do more than word searches of it, though.
Wow. Some shocking rudeness this evening.
Wild-Eyed Lefty, Publius II, though he may be a Repug, seems to be a polite, thoughtful fellow looking for some stimulating conversation. I think you're way out of line.
And Anonymous, leave Tena the fuck alone! Jaysus Christ, what's wrong with making money? For all you know, her "summer home" is a rattletrap shack inherited from her grandparents. I own my own home. Does that make me the Anti-Christ?
I didn't even notice Tena was being attacked!
Seriously, dude. Tena is a solid citizen.
Even if her summer home was a palacial mansion, what difference does it make when you're talking about right and wrong?
Also, if Tena has a palacial summer mansion...where is it and can I stay there?
You know, in the spirit of defeating Bush, and everything.
as for myself and the victory party in November, I am buying at least a couple bottles of champagne and bringing some bottle rockets out of storage.
If you want to celebrate too, make sure to buy your booze the day before Election Day... AFAIK alcohol can't be sold on election days pretty much everywhere.
can't wait!
Max Cleland was just on Bill Maher's show and brought the house down.
Dems ought to start throwing his name around for VP.
We've all fantasized about various Dems debating the Chickenhawks, and how much more illustrative can you get of the fact that Dems better understand the reality of war than having Cleland at the microphone?
Back to MoDo:
She and Tom Friedman pointed their guns on Chimpy tonight. Both columns are devastating.
As for Kerry, we can let Drudge, Hesiod and Howard Dean bring him down. Go Dean!
"Never confuse endurance with hospitality"- Anonymous
You think he'll take his own advice?
With all respect, Gabriel, No.
Read ol' Tom carefully. He is praising with faint damns, an old trick of his. He says that the Iraq war will not be an issue in the campaign because we (all good Amurikans) know in our "Gut" it was the right thing to do. Same with MoDo, her "mirroring" complaints about Condi don't begin to cover it. These bastards started a war, damnit!
They are still carrying the Bush Admin's water, even as Bush makes water on America.
Well, it is interesting to see Crazy Tommy and Catty Maureen go after Bush. In Dowd's case though, she writes a clumsy and barely readable column. It seems as if she has to be attacking someone on some superficial level to be coherent (or at least readable)
Sorry- should have been"those bastards"
If I was guilty of murder, I would much prefer to be charged with shoplifting- That is what they both do in their columns today. And friedman additionally insults our intelligence by insisting it is social spending that is breaking the budget. He doesn't think we can count zeroes.
Mooser, you're right. But still, I'll take any help I can get. Even Sullivan is starting to make sense these days. Howard Kurtz had a decent show on CNN last Sunday. Wolf showed some cojones recently during an interview with the leader of the KDR. Look, if pro-war Friedman wants to bring W down because of his deficits, we should let him.
the latest ravings from Adam Yoshida.
...if, in the end, the United States has the need for more water or energy, it could always coerce Canada into providing it and, failing in that, it could simply conquer Canada.
[rolling eyes]
oy.
[/rolling eyes]
more lunacy from Yoshitler:
Worst-case scenarios of the results of climate change begin, to me at least, to look like a strange sort of global Passover. The Angel of Death passes over the land, smiting the wicked and ungodly Kingdom’s of sin which defy the will of America while leaving the righteous American Republic standing, untouched and mighty.
(he's talking about how global warming and drastic climate change might actually be a good thing)
According to the WaPo, Bush has now agreed to an independent investigation into the prewar intelligence about Saddam's WMDs:
There was no official confirmation from the White House yesterday, but sources in the government said Bush's announcement of support for an independent commission is imminent.
Imminent? More imminent than the threat of WMDS, I hope.
Two questions:
* What the @#@$@! did Dowd do to get a column? If she were covering D-Day, she's spend the article praising the appearance of the Wermacht's uniform. How did someone who covers politics from the perspective of a fashion reporter get a NY Times columnist gig?
* What's all the catty talk about her and Michael Douglas?
I'm sorry, but I think Tom wants to take us down for W's deficits. He seems to think the Iraq war was free.
Same for MoDo, she seems to think that all Condi is guilty of is a slight failure of imaginative creativity.
But see:
http://enduringfriedman.blogspot.com/
He's doing a thorough job of vivesecting Friedman.
renato, guess he's off his meds again. He's freaking crazy and stupid.
They actually said "imminent"?
And I thought irony was dead.
Mooser, here's the article by Dana M and Dana P.
http://tinyurl.com/2fz2v
off his meds? was he ever on them?
I like how NYT publishes its two most out-of-touch columnists on the same day. It's kind of like reading the newspaper on acid.
I has become rather obvious that the administration has SHAT upon the American people.
Thank you for the link, pie
I'm a readin' it now
*Matthew (From Netslaves) Sarof
Of course, his support for the investigation may be "great and gathering" or...
Each day I like to take a minute or two and picture just what the hell is going on in George Bush's mind.
Is it beginning to dawn on him, perhaps, that he's fucked? Things are starting to collapse on several fronts at once.
** WH reporters asking *gasp* hard questions about the extra $130 billion tacked on to the cost of the Medicare bill. (http://tinyurl.com/2km7h)
** 9/11 Commission threatening subpenas and starting to really make a fuss. (http://tinyurl.com/3fcas)
** The Democratic candidates in the news daily, all making strong charges against the President.
** Kay testifying about no WMDs.
** O'Neil's book
** Plame Grand Jury Testimony (http://tinyurl.com/2mza4)
** Next book to smack Bush around from an insider's perspective: Richard Clarke's "Against All Enemies : Inside the White House's War on Terror--What Really Happened" March 30, 2004.
** And coming soon to a theatre near you: open Iraqi civil war.
OOPS! Apologies for one name post above - shoulda read:
*Matthew (From Netslaves) Sarof - dead on about the Wehrmacht uniforms. That's spot on, man - don't forget the shine on their boots and their use of butter forks.
As for t'other - word on Connecticut Ave is that she and Michael "Sex Addict" Douglas had an affair after Douglas had divorced his previous wife (who divorced him after catching him in a hotel with a production assistant) and Zeta-Jones. Kind of puts her outrage about Clinton's fellating in perspective, huh?
Hmmm. Just read TPM's take on this development.
How long can the White House continue with the charade?
And when is the CIA going to say "Enough!"
I think that by this summer the Bush house of cards will begin to collapse, as suddenly as that of Dean. It's just a question of which straw will be the final one that breaks the chimp's back. Might be Plame-gate. Might be WMD. Might be the worsening situation in Iraq, especially after the handover of power. Might be the 9/11 Commission.
Gonna be a verrrrry interesting year...
"** WH reporters asking *gasp* hard questions about the extra $130 billion tacked on to the cost of the Medicare bill. (http://tinyurl.com/2km7h)
** 9/11 Commission threatening subpenas and starting to really make a fuss. (http://tinyurl.com/3fcas)
** The Democratic candidates in the news daily, all making strong charges against the President.
** Kay testifying about no WMDs.
** O'Neil's book
** Plame Grand Jury Testimony (http://tinyurl.com/2mza4)
** Next book to smack Bush around from an insider's perspective: Richard Clarke's "Against All Enemies : Inside the White House's War on Terror--What Really Happened" March 30, 2004.
** And coming soon to a theatre near you: open Iraqi civil war.
Travis"
Wow Travis, that's really scary to me and I'm part of the opposition.
Aww, don't be scared Lefty.
Just remember to keep a supply of pitchforks handy.
"Just remember to keep a supply of pitchforks handy.
Travis"
Well, I'm worried if Bush's poll numbers get down much lower what they might do. This may be the most dangerous coming 10 months in our nation's history. I still think the man is deranged. That's what Gore Vidal thinks. It's been reported that Bush spends every waking moment planning the campaign. He's obsessed with having another 4 years.
Sen. Pat Roberts (R-Kan.), chairman of the Senate intelligence committee, said yesterday that convening a blue-ribbon panel is important, because "we're in danger now of seeing the politicization of the whole intelligence issue."
Oh shit no, we wouldn't want to do anything that would politicize intelligence now would we. Jumping Jesus, do these guys even believe what they say?
Bush actually believes it's all about him and not the American people.
Well, I'm worried if Bush's poll numbers get down much lower what they might do.
We might find out what "code red" means.
I would really, really, really, really, really like to see a group of family members of 9/11 victims do an ad this fall for MoveOn.org, related to how the Bush regime is stonewalling the investigation of their loved ones' deaths.
And Anonymous, leave Tena the fuck alone! Jaysus Christ, what's wrong with making money? For all you know, her "summer home" is a rattletrap shack inherited from her grandparents. I own my own home. Does that make me the Anti-Christ?
hamletta
Do you take a four month vacation every year? Do you take it at your summer home? Are you married to a wealthy Republican?
If your car broke down by the side of the road and Tena and her husband were driving by, would they stop to pick you up?
The point is not how much money she has, but just how out of touch with the average person she ( and from some previous comments pie) really are.
When was the last time either worked a forty hour week for minimum wage? Or because they were trained lathe operaters and their factory closed they were forced to take two jobs to pay the bills?
If she wishes to comment on rich white democrats married to rich white republicans, sure she can do the Carville/Matlin thing. If she wants to comment on who her rich friends will vote for that is fine as well.
But when she pulled that whole, my darkskinned husband had his bag looked through at the airport I can now understand driving while black speil, that blew it for me.
Gimme a fucking break.
If you think she understands your life struggles, other than in the abstract, then you are insane.
renato
Notice how the Ellen Marriani (sp?) Rico suit isn't getting much mention,even here?
We might find out what "code red" means.
Another Bruce
No you won't. Can't shop.
Bush actually believes it's all about him and not the American people.
Wild Eyed Lefty
That is the flaw with all politicians.
Kerry, Edwards and Lieberman did the same thing with the war.
Hey, you nutjobs! Another Saturday night!
Anonymous,
C'mon, I don't think anyone here grew up in the ghetto.
So why was there no thread about this?
Far more important than most recent topics.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4111217
Now, about 73 families have refused to take the feds‘ money and are keeping their options open to sue the government or the airlines.
With me now is Ellen Mariani, whose husband died on the United Airlines Flight 175 on September 11. Ms. Mariani has sued President Bush, the federal government and United Airlines, among others.
Ms. Mariani, thank you for being in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY tonight.
And let me begin by asking you just tell us a little bit about your husband.
ELLEN MARIANI, WIFE OF SEPTEMBER 11 VICTIM: Well, first of all, he
served four years for our country. And he died shamelessly—shamefully -
· on our soil. That‘s No. 1. And he was a great guy.
SCARBOROUGH: Yes.
You know, we‘ve heard, and I know you certainly have heard the audiotape this week of the flight attendant who acted so heroically on one of the flights that went down. I want to play you just a clip of that right now.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
BETTY ONG, AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT ATTENDANT: Our first-class passengers are—our first-class galley flight attendant and our purser has been stabbed. And we can‘t get into the cockpit. The door won‘t open.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What‘s going on, Betty? Betty, talk to me.
I think we might have lost her.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: Ms. Mariani, what is it like for you to hear that tape this week? Does it bring it all back again for you?
MARIANI: It‘s chilling.
I wonder what went through my husband‘s mind. I wonder what they did to him. I‘m asking the president to have mercy on us and please investigate and stop blocking us, which he has been doing since 9/11. We need the truth to heal and go forward.
SCARBOROUGH: Now, you know, you‘re suing, obviously, President Bush. What do you hope to gain from filing a lawsuit against the president of the United States? Do you actually blame him for the 3,000 deaths on September 11?
MARIANI: I want to know why he didn‘t immediately start an investigation. I want to know why he has blocked my lawsuit and many others that followed me in New York. That is a red flag to me.
If he has nothing to hide, come forward and tell us the truth, because there are millions of us people who are still suffering.
SCARBOROUGH: Now, this is a letter that you wrote, an open letter to President Bush.
And you said this: “You, Mr. Bush, should be held responsible and liable for any and all acts that were committed to aid in the cover-up of the tragic events of September 11, 2001. It is my belief that you intentionally allowed 9/11 to happen to gather public support for a war on terrorism.”
Those are awfully tough words, Ellen.
MARIANI: Well, it‘s awfully hard to live now without your husband and knowing that a president has not come forward and told us the truth, doesn‘t tell us anything of what he
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4111217
MARIANI: Well, it‘s awfully hard to live now without your husband and knowing that a president has not come forward and told us the truth, doesn‘t tell us anything of what he knew before it all happened, even though people are coming forward, saying that they were warned from all parts of other countries.
He just left us there with money to keep us quiet.
SCARBOROUGH: Yes.
MARIANI: I‘m sorry, but this is not a political gain on my part.
SCARBOROUGH: Right.
MARIANI: This is not bashing the government. But we deserve—our country and all those other countries that have been torn apart deserves the truth.
SCARBOROUGH: Phil Berg, let me bring new here. You obviously are Ellen attorney.
This is obviously a horrible tragedy. Some are already saying, though, that you‘ve been involved in other political lawsuits against the president of the United States and are questioning whether you are hoping to prove in a court of law that the president of the United States knew about these attacks and let 3,000 people die.
PHIL BERG, ATTORNEY FOR MARIANI: I think that there is no question that President Bush knew about it, it was very complicit in the events of 9/11.
And just, if the public would take a look—and Joe, I saw you
yesterday. You did a great job. And you always do on your show. But,
Joe, if you take a look at the facts of 9/11, if there was nothing to hide,
why would Bush be hiding everything? He didn‘t want
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: What‘s he hiding?
BERG: Well, he didn‘t want the 9/11 Commission. He has been stonewalling the 9/11 Commission. They want to extend the 9/11 Commission. The word is now that the president and the White House doesn‘t want to do it, and Congress—they‘ll let it up to Congress.
SCARBOROUGH: But, Phil, isn‘t there a difference, though, between bureaucratic bungling, people missing signals at CIA and all across the federal government, and president willfully allowing 3,000 people to die, as you are claiming tonight?
BERG: Well, think about it.
For the events of 9/11 to have occurred, 116 governmental agencies and failsafe systems would have had to fail on that day. The odds of that happening are one in four million. Just take a look at the events that occurred on 9/11. Yesterday was released a tape of one of the stewardesses, who described that the plane had been basically taken over, that several people were stabbed.
The first plane did not crash into the World Trade Center until 26 minutes later. If the jets had been scrambled, if military jets had been scrambled, with all the foreknowledge that this government had from as far back as 1995, that plane would not have hit the World Trade Center. But let‘s assume for a minute that they couldn‘t have stopped that, because they didn‘t really know it was heading for the World Trade Center. I doubt that.
But the second plane, unfortunately, the plane t
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4111217
But the second plane, unfortunately, the plane that Ellen‘s husband, Louis Neil Mariani, was on, didn‘t crash into the second World Trade Center until 17 minutes later. That should never have occurred. When it was flashed across our television screens at 8:46 a.m. on 9/11 that a plane accidentally hit the World Trade Center, government knew that we were under attack at that point.
SCARBOROUGH: All right, Phil Berg, thank you so much for being with us.
And, Ellen Mariani, I certainly appreciate you being with us tonight.
I know it‘s extremely difficult to talk about, but we appreciate it.
MARIANI: Thank you.
SCARBOROUGH: And, of course, our thoughts continue to be with Ellen, and prayers, also.
I got to tell you, though, if you‘re going to accuse the president of the United States of killing 3,000 Americans willfully, as Ellen‘s attorney is doing tonight, I think you need a little more specific evidence. I‘m going to keep coming back to this guy. I‘m going to call him back to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY. We‘re going to take more time, as this lawsuit proceeds, because I think those charges are reckless.
OT, but interesting ...
http://tinyurl.com/2b2ba
Apperently education in Georgia is even worse off than I'd imagined. Their new high school U.S. history curriculum doesn't cover the Civil War. Zilch. Can you imagine a generation growing up not learning about the war that split their own country in half?
Teachers are, however, "encouraged to assign essays about dating in the Jazz Age and to show segments from "All in the Family," "Good Times" and "Chico and the Man.""
The ironically named Maureen Dowd(y):
http://dictionary.reference.com/.../search?
q=dowdy
But, I guess we're projecting again, huh?
Dowd's not talking about Kerry-Botox.
We are.
What's that tell us?
thanks for posting the Scarborough transcript. As scummy as he is, at least he let them talk. Can you imagine if Mariani and Berg had tried to do Hannity or O'Reilly's shows?
C'mon, I don't think anyone here grew up in the ghetto.
Wild Eyed Lefty
How does losing a good paying factory job and being forced to work two, equate with "growing up in a ghetto"? Or working a minimum wage job?
Are ALL poor people black in your eyes?
Why is it so hard to grasp that if your rich you can not relate to average citizens?
Sure, if she won the lottery yesterday I could understand that.
But when you don't have the same pressures ( like going to the dentist, or paying rent) you can not understand what it is like.
Remember Poppy and the scanner? Or Jessica Simpson and the Chicken of the Sea tuna?
They can't get it because it just doesn't appear in their daily lives.
In an abstract movie of the week way they understand it, but it is vague and insubstantial.
OT, but tinfoil hats are now de rigeur...
Dossier program alarms Utahns
By Jerry D. Spangler, Amy Joi Bryson and Bob Bernick Jr.
Deseret Morning News
It sounds like a sci-fi thriller: a super computer program that gathers dossiers on every single man, woman and child — everything from birth and marriage and divorce history to hunting licenses and car license plates. Even every address you have lived at down to the color of your hair.
It sounds surreal, but former Gov. Mike Leavitt signed Utah's 2.4 million residents up for a pilot program — ironically called MATRIX — that does just that. And he never bothered to reveal details of the program to Utah citizens or to state lawmakers who, upon learning of the program on Capitol Hill this week, are now worried the state could be involved in a program that jeopardizes basic civil liberties.
"I am concerned our governor signed us up without ever talking to us, the people of the state" said Senate Minority Whip Ron Allen, D-Stansbury Park, who has asked legislative analysts to research whether the Legislature ever authorized state participation in the program. "If what I have heard is true, then I am concerned about our liberty and our privacy. It is a national identification card without ever carrying it." ...
MATRIX — Multistate Anti-Terrorism Information Exchange — is an intranet database regarded as the nation's largest cyber-compilation of personal records. It is touted as an efficient crime-fighting tool that allows agencies to access information with just a nimble fingertip.
Searchable databases allow law enforcement agents to probe for people using Social Security numbers, dates of birth, addresses, property records, motor vehicle information and credit history. The information is collected by states and forwarded to a database in Florida, where a private company, Seisint Inc., builds and manages the database.
The program essentially cross-references government records from both public and private databases, putting together a dossier on individuals for use by law enforcement...
Every so often Dowd posts a column we like. She's shallow, at best. Brooks does shallow even better. Shouldn't they be on the entertainment page? Frank Rich, who IS on the arts beat, makes them look like meringue confections.
Friedman might not be so bad if he only posted once or twice a month.
Why is the press fawning over Kay's belated discovery that Saddam had no WMDs? All this was revealed before he hauled his sorry ass over to Iraq.
He was the one on TV, trashing Hans Blix, Scott Ritter, and anyone else with the courage to tell the truth. He's still not only lying, but fantasizing. He's come up with this off-the-wall theory that Saddam was conned into believing that the WMDs existed. Not only that, but the press, ever eager to play the bullshit card, is now claiming that Saddam was trying to bluff the world into believing that he possessed WMDs. As I remember it, he denied over and over again that they existed. I seem to recall a table full of documents (which were probably never examined) that were supposed to establish that the so-called WMDs were destroyed. Now, Saddam may not have been playing with a full deck, but I think that assholes such as Kay were also missing a few cards.
thanks for posting the Scarborough transcript. As scummy as he is, at least he let them talk. Can you imagine if Mariani and Berg had tried to do Hannity or O'Reilly's shows?
renato
Someone at DU was of the opinion that Killer Joe didn't know how to attack the woman. Her husband was one of the dead so he could not go after her. And the attorney was too good.
When you get going real good, you're going downhill, fast-
-Anonymous, in his better days.
Buddy you've got to get hold of yourself..No I didn't mean...
Anon, your Mom might be reading Eschaton. Have you no shame? Think of the man you used to be.
Dowd's not talking about Kerry-Botox.
We are.
What's that tell us?
Verso
We watched Fridays Real Time and she didn't?
Buddy you've got to get hold of yourself..No I didn't mean...
Anon, your Mom might be reading Eschaton. Have you no shame? Think of the man you used to be.
Mooser
Projection eh?
Just like those two guys on Madtv who realized they were gay.
Think of the whatever you could be.
From another thread:
According to psychiatrists, verbal abusers have low self-esteem and must lash out at people in order to feel good about themselves. They regard abuse as a means to control others because they are powerless in their own lives.
http://www.verbalabuse.com/2.shtml
Shorter explanation...he is one impotent, pathetic piece of rat excrement.
sekmet | Email | Homepage | 01.30.04 - 11:21 am | #
Someone want to share that with Atios, who is verbally abusive to MoDo? He's obviously a misogynist and very lowly.
As for an October surprise...
There doesn't seem to be much doubt that we'll still have a few divisions in Iraq.
Ronnie's kicking wouldn't do much.
Capturing Osama would be a treat, but wouldn't it entail invading Pakistan? A nice shiny new war would get our juices flowing, but with what army could we fight it? Unless we can pull it off on the cheap with special forces, it doesn't seem doable.
And I'll have you know, Anon, last week Tena e-mailed me some free legal advice, which saved me lots of trouble, and her old man spotted me $15,000 to remodel our kitchen. Until you can do the same shut up.
Or hasn't the economy been good to you...
Dave, so I assume this means buh-bye Gov. Leavitt?
Jesus, what an asshole.
And to everybody up thread canting about relating to "the average person," by which I mean you, Anonymous picking on Tena, here's an appropriately election-year can of worms to open: What exactly does "the average person" fucking mean?
To me, it means the same thing "middle America" does: a few words to stick in the middle of an argument to make your opponent look like a dick no matter what comes out of his mouth next.
A.
TownDrunk
Kay was the one to seel Poppy on the idea Saddam had WMD's. The other experts didn't beleive it.
Go ahead and be a martyr to your purism. I'm not arguing with you. But Tena is in the same boat as all of us in this country.
Let's drop it.
And I'll have you know, Anon, last week Tena e-mailed me some free legal advice, which saved me lots of trouble, and her old man spotted me $15,000 to remodel our kitchen. Until you can do the same shut up.
Or hasn't the economy been good to you...
Mooser
HAHAHA.
First tena posts as cereal breath now mooser. Just how many alias will she post under.
And as soon as they sent the money monkeys flew out her husbands ass and talked him into turning Democrat.
.
just read mo-reen's column. imho, it's quite good and insightful. after all, if she refers to condi a "foreign policy ninny," it can't be all bad.
atrios, perhaps you owe her an apology?
Go ahead and be a martyr to your purism. I'm not arguing with you. But Tena is in the same boat as all of us in this country.
Let's drop it.
Wild Eyed Lefty
How do you figure that?
Is she worried her KB toys job will end?
Is she worried that she can't afford the trip to the dentist to have the kids cavities filled?
Is she worried she can't get the car fixed to get her to work?
I see she is in the same fix because she is a Democrat.
Other than that, what does she have to worry about?
Drawing on my fine command of language, I said nothing
-Anonymous
See how sensible you used to be?
As for WMD, we here know that
Ritter said they were gone.
Blix and el Baradei said they couldn't find any, and the Iraqis said they didn't have any.
It was clear that even if they still had some chemical munitions they were not much of a threat to their neighbors, much less the United States.
But it was still a sexy issue, so the media was happy to go along. Moreover, the Afghanistan operation didn't provide us with much in the way of closure, no Osama, "dead or alive", not even Muhammad Omar.
The public was still hungry for victory, the media is inherently starved for attention, both needed to be fed.
The fact that the Bush administration was gunning for goddamn Saddam from day one, as attested by Paul O'Neill, is probably the smoking gun, if you're looking for motivation at the top.
To me, it means the same thing "middle America" does: a few words to stick in the middle of an argument to make your opponent look like a dick no matter what comes out of his mouth next.
A.
Athenae
It means the guywith the white collar job making forty grand a year has more in common with the woman making twelve.
Other than Bush, who do you know that takes a four month vacation every year?
And in their summer house at that?
That whole darkskinned husband and understanding the problems blacks face cause he got looked at funny at the airport should illustrate that to you.
Face facts honey, all anyone knows about anyone else here is what they type. It isn't like there is a group picnic where we can see each other face to face.
In tena's case she got pissy one day and claimed only her type moderates should be involved in poitics.
And you wonder why there are shitty Democratic politicians. It is the tena and pies who keep them in office.
Not those with ideals.
Good news: no botox; bad news,no sense
See how sensible you used to be?
Mooser
If you put down the crack pipe you would realize I still am.
michael douglas? eeew, now i don't think i will EVER read her again. obviously this woman has no discernment.
Good news: no botox; bad news,no sense
M. Tullius
?
The pictures on RealTime not only showed fewer wrinkles but also darker hair.
Kind of reminded me of Reagan's claim he never dyed his hair.
Oh yeah, anon, like we all don't have days where we say, "why am I the only here who GETS this?" about some political issue.
"SCARBOROUGH: Now, this is a letter that you wrote, an open letter to President Bush.
And you said this: “You, Mr. Bush, should be held responsible and liable for any and all acts that were committed to aid in the cover-up of the tragic events of September 11, 2001. It is my belief that you intentionally allowed 9/11 to happen to gather public support for a war on terrorism.”
Those are awfully tough words, Ellen.
MARIANI: Well, it‘s awfully hard to live now without your husband and knowing that a president has not come forward and told us the truth, doesn‘t tell us anything of what he
Anonymous"
I think we are all in danger.
The fact that the Bush administration was gunning for goddamn Saddam from day one, as attested by Paul O'Neill, is probably the smoking gun, if you're looking for motivation at the top.
bad Jim
Gay georgie is trying to prove he is more man that Poppy. All for the love of bab's.
They abandoned him at boarding school. Later he was a cheerleader in the fifties.
C'mon just how gay do you have to be a cheerleader back then.
The jocks must have beat the shit out of him daily.
Now we have his overuse of the word "fabulous" and his comments on how pretty certain mens faces are.
Looks like a one way trip up the Hershey Highway.
I think we are all in danger.
Wild Eyed Lefty
Not really.
Bush is bad for business.
Remember the overall picture is to create one big ass global economy.
Can't buy the new tv's or cars with no money in your pocket.
Can't pay the credit card without the cash.
If he were elected for real he would not last two years.
If ignorance is bliss, than why am I unhappy?- Anonymous
A once fine mind, brought low.
haha
Oh yeah, anon, like we all don't have days where we say, "why am I the only here who GETS this?" about some political issue.
Travis
Isn't that why people post?
The problem is most people are of two minds.
We admit truth a and deny truth b.
Kerry and the war for example. We all know it was a political move and he expected Iraq to be a cake walk, so he had to side with Bush for his run.
But we want to believe his claims about being lied too.
Unfortunately, he never apologized for being taken in.
Which would have made b more reasonable.
If ignorance is bliss, than why am I unhappy?- Anonymous
A once fine mind, brought low.
Mooser
Now you are just restating what you say to your therapist.
The term is projection.
Later he was a cheerleader ...
The jocks must have beat the shit out of him daily.
At Andover?
Ah! I am touched...see! I bleed!.Good Romeo, I am dying! Farewell cruel world...
I am to Shakespeare as anon is to sanity.
Wild Eyed Lefty, are you suggesting Bush would, say, start a conflict with an unstable nucluear power, like Pakistan, in order to ensure his own election?
I'm not saying it's not true. I've had much the same thought. But do you think, for example, that our 'way of life' will change drastically before Nov 04?
At the frayed end of a quasi-MoDo* thread, I think that we have overlooked the obvious question:
We know that Saddam Hussein had Botox. Why didn't he use it? It might have made for a more effective disguise than his beard.
* simply terrible, had to use it
For Dave and Athanae: This is the best part of the Utah matrix deal - Leavitt was appointed by Bush to be the head of the EPA last year. He turned over duties to his Lt. Govnr and never told her about this MATRIX thing. She found out about it two or three days ago and quickly put a freeze on any continued participation.
Wild Eyed Lefty, are you suggesting Bush would, say, start a conflict with an unstable nucluear power, like Pakistan, in order to ensure his own election?
I think O'Neill (sp?)among others, made it pretty clear that Bush is not the guiding hand, er, claw in this administration. Is it really a matter of what Bush would do? Or is it a matter of what Cheney, Perle, and God knows who else, would do? They can adjust their plans to operate without Bush if it comes to that. They waited. what, ten years to have these plans come to fruition and they have gone way too far to turn back. The stakes are too high.
It's been suggested that Osama, in his rush to bring on the "War of Civilizations", would prefer to see Bush re-elected. Given the situation in Pakistan, the assassination of Musharraf might entangle us in such a way as to make fearful hawkish Americans vote for a Bushy security blanket.
If some bad shit goes down while we're hammering the prez about lying us into war, it won't help our candidate.
Maybe Osama could pull off an October surprise.
If ignorance is bliss, then Dubya won't feel too bad about getting voted out this November.
Here's the thing with Iraq/Afganistan. Anything at all there is an improvement. When you're at rock bottom, there's no place to go but up.
Granted I'm glad America did it, but had anyone but Bush taken office in 2000 (ie Nader, Dole, Gore) we probally would have still invaded both(except maybe Nader) and the only difference would have been when and the level of corruption/mismanagement.
Cause lets face it Iraq woulda gone down sooner or later. PNAC was pushing that hard and with 9/11 Afganistan would have happened one way or another.
Mars, do you have anything to back up an assertion that President Nader, Dole, or Gore "would have invaded both anyway"
That's a huge leap of faith to start a discussion with.
Dare to dream Peter. The polls are showing Bush sweeping November and you can be assured the GOP has another groomed for 2008. It's called foresight. Ain't life grand?
Does anyone think that an Iraq under American occupation wasn't worth fifteen thousand Iraqi lives?
$200,000,000,000? Cheap at twice the price. Damn the deficit, full speed ahead!
I bet millions of Iraqis would resoundingly answer yes.
I thought they were gone-they're just coming out under cover of dark.
The magnificent things that go bump in the night!
Bump!
The polls are showing Bush sweeping November
I'm curious what polls you're looking at, since none of the reputable ones show any such thing.
I bet millions of Iraqis would resoundingly answer yes.
Ah, but those are the millions as yet alive. Were the thousands of dead consulted on this point before they were blown to pieces?
Is anyone here actually moronic enough to belive that millions of Iraqi's would prefer to be back under Saddam's Regime?
And who were these thousands of Iraqis that were killed? You pulled that number out of your ass.
The trolls are showing a bush sweep in November.
Is anyone here actually moronic enough to belive that millions of Iraqi's would prefer to be back under Saddam's Regime?
Diversionary argument.
Pray tell, when did the GOP become the interventionist/nation-building/bleeding-heart party?
It's so phony to defy proper description. No one buys it but the zombies.
Millions versus thousands.........
Hmmm. You're not too good at number cruching are you?
Pray tell, when HASN'T the GOP been the interventionist/nation-building/bleeding-heart party?
And who were these thousands of Iraqis that were killed? You pulled that number out of your ass.
Gordon the Magnificent
You want what, names and address? Photographs of them before, or perhaps even after, their untimely demise?
Millions of us would be very glad if another country invaded us and killed thousands of people like you. How would you feel about that?
You're a very poor troll, Gordon. Are you drinking, or is this your normal performance?
Actually, the new ordinance used in Iraq, called the Hydra, blows Iraquis into several pieces, each one of which is healthier has better teeth and gums, and is programmed to convert to Christianity within 24 hours. It's amazing.
How would you feel living under the rule of Saddam's Regime?
Freedom means nothing to you does it? People like you take it for granted.
Gordon the magnificent goes trolling for insults to post on his blog- I didn't bookmark it- could you give us a link?
Keep sipping your Starbucks freeloaders. You moonbats will never learn.
I'll see you cuntheads in November!
Bwaa Ha Ha! Mine as well as get used to another four years of Bush and his relief to follow!
No, but I am taking trolls for granted- trolls and viruses- viruses and trolls, a happy couple
Great blog Mooser. Yawn.
I just get jealous when I think of all the benefits you'll receive direct from Bushco next November- Why that mountain of money will be so high you'll have difficulty climbing to the top. And you won't have to go to sea in the Merchant Marine anymore. Ah the life of a troll is the only life for me.
No one could deny that that was the best $200,000,000,000 we ever spent. Hoo, boy!
But wait - it gets better! But they're not going to tell us how much better until after the election.
One may be permitted to doubt that they're holding that number back because we'll be amazed to learn how cheap another year's occupation will be.
It's not a blog- just a web card- rather flattering picture of me on my VTR-1000, which is a great bike, if you were thinking of getting one. I like my Ducati SS-900 but it's a lot different
Gordon the magnificent goes trolling for insults to post on his blog-
Oh, so that's it. I had an impression he pathetically considered himself a worthy debater.
I shan't expect a response from him.
Or maybe you're yawn,too. You know-
I never touched a computer until 9 mos. ago. My wife (You know what that is, don't you Gordon) wanted to get one to do bills and such. I never dreamed, unless I ate too much spicy food, that I would meet such interesting people.
I paid $14.95 for the web card- just to snag the domain name. Do you like sport bikes Gordon?
Yup, anon, he's a trolly- troll- troll.
"Gay georgie is trying to prove he is more man that Poppy. All for the love of bab's.
They abandoned him at boarding school. Later he was a cheerleader in the fifties.
C'mon just how gay do you have to be a cheerleader back then.
The jocks must have beat the shit out of him daily.
Now we have his overuse of the word "fabulous" and his comments on how pretty certain mens faces are.
Looks like a one way trip up the Hershey Highway.
Anonymous"
Good God, are you saying that our president is a girly-boy pole-smoking fag?
Here's a cross-threading comment: the Dow gained quite a bit in 2003, almost 30%. Unfortunately, the dollar declined almost that much against the Euro, so the European markets' pallid performance, in terms of their own currency, was comparable. So much for recovery from recession.
Budget deficits as far as the eye can see. Current account deficits (which we used to call the balance of payments) that will knock your socks off. Not only do we rely upon the kindness of strangers to finance our government, we rely upon the Chinese to finance our consumption debt.
So, what's the new slogan? Apre moi, la deluge?
Apres moi
Pardon my French.
And much as I hate the idea, I'll have to go in to my Halo-scan cookies and delete my e-mail address. They troll them up and spread viruses. Frankly- I'd rather be riding my Super Hawk. The Duc is different- air cooled- very light.
Bad Jim- I have been reading history desperately for about a year now, and I think you hit it right on the eclair. First "I am the state" and then "After me, the deluge".
Serephial posted a link to Gordons blog, oh yeah I forgot about Google.
Try a Google search:Gordon the Magnificent. That might call it up.
But why won't he talk about Bikes?
Gordon do you like the VFR series?
Serephial posted a link to Gordons blog
Er... No, I didn't. He hasn't even bothered to answer the simple questions I put to him, so why would I bother even looking at his blog, much less posting a link to it?
Mooser, Gordito appears to be a new troll. He posted a worthless put-down on "Alas" (Amptoons) and was called out for it. Ouch. Alas is a far less forgiving and more tightly policed than Atrios.
In this thread I think too many of us have been too harsh on some of the visitors. Publius was good -- even-tempered, at least -- and even Anonymous (assuming there was only one) was actually largely compatible, although his (?) put-downs of other posters were beyond the pale.
Maybe we need to lighten up a little bit, even though Saturday night's alright for fighting.
I'm very sorry Seraphial- I was wrong about that. I thought it was you but, as you say, it wasn't, and I hope you won't hold it against me.
There's more than one "anonymous"
The one that tics me off is the one that calls out another poster, Tena by handle, for a lot of sick abuse. I like to post proverbs and sayings by "Anonymous"(I've got a couple hundred of "em) to draw his fire. After all, he can't deny his own words, can he?
Haven't I suffered enough?
http://www.angelfire.com/co/zizp...zpage/
Sadam.jpg
And as for Publius- there is nothing reasonable about totally ignoring the cost, in blood and money of the Bush Follies. I live in a military town- lots of Nat. Guard, Reserve, and Navy folk, the Stryker brigade comes from Fort Lewis, just down the road. We see the cost of this crap, and only the tip of the iceberg, every day. It's real easy to gabble about Iraq if your ideas about the cost go no deeper than a movie scenario. I have nieces and nephews, and I don't want to see the end of the volunteer army, the destruction of which is almost certainly going to be a result of this mess, and that's just the tip...
So no, no one is being too hard. IMHO
http://www.thesoakzone.blogspot.com/
is Gordons Blog, where you will see whatever he has trolled up. I suggest you take a look before you decide to engage him in debate.
One look at me on my VTR-1000 (moosehall.com) scared him right off! Ha! (They took the picture at the dealer the day I bought that bike- that was a happy day- happy Mooser)
Is she worried her KB toys job will end?
Okay, that pisses me off. My uncle was the comptroller of KB Toys for years, and it was not that fabulous a gig. And my uncle is as sweet a man as you could ever meet, a first-generation Italian; and did I mention he's sweet and adorable?
Mooser, Publius is here for the argument. Of course you have to paste his ears back for this obscenity of a war. But he was pretty gracious, and, what the hell, arguing with one of them is sometimes more interesting than arguing with our own side.
Personal attacks are over the line, and tireless Tena should never have been subject to the least whisker's twitch of reproach.
Many of us reveal more than is necessary in the course of this ongoing conversation. I really don't need to know that 4legs, Tena and Jeffers are all Texans, most of whom have legal educations.
That's not to say that it isn't entertaining, and I'm not the first person to have thought of inventorying this crew. (Note to self: start making notes. Y is Canadian.) The thing that gets me (and keeps me coming back) is that I can never tell whether Z (for any value of pseudonymous Z) is male or female.
Publius II might have been wrongheaded (in my view) about many things, but like bad Jim says he was even-tempered. Isn't that what we want? Someone that comes here frothing at the mouth has no chance of having their mind changed. But someone like him is possible, as long as you engage civilly and maturely with him. Point out the facts, explain your views, and let him decide. If he still doesn't change his mind, then oh well. I happen to agree with him on one thing. Whatever the truth might be, the perception is that Bush is strong on national defense. In these times, that will weigh heavily on many peoples' minds. I predict that the 2004 election will have the highest voter turnout in decades. Democratic voters will be energized, even for a stiff like Kerry. At the same time, Bush loyalists will also come out of the woodworks. It should be interesting. So much can happen from here to there, that a landslide is possible on both ends, or a super-tight race.
How asinine to attack Tena because she has a Republican husband and a summer home. Even if she's more affluent than many of us, does that fact preclude her from being a decent human being? Her posting has almost always been decent and thoughtful, and if I disagree with her on some things (I'm to the right of her on many issues) that's fine with me too. Howard Dean is from an old money New England family, yet he has touched on a populist nerve.
Is anyone here actually moronic enough to belive that millions of Iraqi's would prefer to be back under Saddam's Regime?
Gordon the Magnificent | Email | Homepage | 02.01.04 - 1:48 am | #
I can't dismiss that out of hand. I believe that millions of Iraqis are most happy to not be under his regime anymore. I sometimes feel that liberals tend to overlook that fact, or minimize it. However, Gordon, do you think they really relish being under occupation by a foreign power? A people that is quite culturally different than they, and has little understanding of their culture? Yes, Iraqis are grateful to the US for removing Saddam, but pretty soon they will want the US to do the hard part. Removing ourselves. That's not so easy, now, is it? Going into Iraq was the right thing, perhaps the moral thing. But at what cost? As a traditional foreign policy conservative, the cost so heavily outweighed the gains.
For anyone who doesn't have their equipment yet....
look here
Also, a friendly public service announcement, don't feed the silly troll because it makes them fat and even stupider than usual.
lol flg
Going into Iraq was the right thing, perhaps the moral thing. But at what cost?
I so disagree. Human rights watch has come out and said there was no humanitarian case for invading Iraq. And since there's no weapons (D'OH!!) the only reason left is PNAC ideology.
It's not moral to invade someone's country, kill their citizens, destroy their infrastructure, and destabilize their society. Especially when they haven't attacked us or threatened us.
That is, in fact, an actual picture of Gordon. Which explains why he's never been laid, and never will be.
Unless someone starts manufacturing life size troll dolls with working parts or something.
The jocks must have beat the shit out of him daily.
Can you imagine Bush without his Secret Service detail? Americans would be standing in line for the opportunity.
Brains! Must have delicious brains!
It's moral and right only insofar that a monstrous dictator was pushed out of power. That is a moral plus, if the only one. No humanitarian case? I thought human-rights groups were on Saddam's case 10, 20 years ago? Just as it is morally relative for the far-right to ignore that we supported Saddam through his worst acts, the same could be said of condemning him all those years, and then doing an about-face.
Unless they mean that there should have been alternatives to invasion, but still keeping the pressure on? If so, then I apologize.
Which brings me back to my point, and one that you bring up. There are some morally compelling reasons to have gone into Iraq, just as there are in many spots in the world like Liberia (which I opposed, btw). But like you said, flg, Iraq wasn't much of a threat to the US, or to the stability of the region. Knowing this, the costs are only multiplied, both in human costs and dollar.
Can you imagine Bush without his Secret Service detail? Americans would be standing in line for the opportunity.
Bad Molly! Bad Molly!
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Oops! Sorry about the double post!
Utilitarian equations are a bitch to figure and agony to balance. Let's juggle 26M Iraqis nervous about occupation & the threat of civil war, 15k dead and uncaring, $200G so far and more to come.
The dollar figure is hard to square with the needs in Africa for Aids (and everything else, if we can bear to admit it) and our outlays in Afghanistan, when we can bother to allocate something.
Has anyone noticed that those goddamned Iraqis don't seem to appreciate what we did for them?
Molly,
From a recent WaPo article: "Besides exercising, Bush's biggest release from his job is chain sawing branches into huge piles in the summer, with Secret Service agents hovering nearby to protect him from falling limbs as he trims."
I can just imagine Bush doing an oopsie with the chainsaw without his SS detail there to protect him from himself.
Those chain saw fumes can really mess up your brain.
MoDo will just continue being a catty, bitchy media shill for the establishment as she and her paper see it. She will marry, it will be for money though. A print whore doesn't have the pull of someone like Di, who is on TV. Her husband will probably be in the Greenspan, Kissinger, mold (mould might be a better spelling though). A rich "intellectual" with a firm hand in some legalized but criminal enterprise. She will end her days as a respected voice but only by the rest of the media shills and people silly enough to think the NYT is a great newspaper. History will be very unkind though, a few snide footnotes in more readable histories of the period.
She'll go to hell.
OT, from the Observer, and rather cute:
A 'quirky' revolution
Speaking of media whores - this thread did start out on that topic, right? - I see that Michael Isikoff, fearless blue dress crusader, is inviting discussion questions at
http://
discuss.washingtonpost.co...205_isikoff.htm
This is for his live appearance on a MSNBC/Newsweek chat site next Thursday.
He is afraid that we might not understand the news and what it all means, and he wants to help. For example, we might wonder about this: "...a classified Senate Intelligence Committee report making the rounds has been described by Senate Republicans as evidence that President Bush and his top advisors were primarily the victims of faulty intelligence about Iraq. Who's telling the truth?"
I didn't follow up on this pressing question, myself. I was too busy getting the coffee out of my keyboard after it sprayed from my nose when I read that Bush and cronies were the 'victims' in the whole Iraq thing. Instead I asked him why any 'journalist' who posed such slanted and partisan questions (see the following question about Kerry's financing for another good laugh) should be considered anything but a hack.
I can't wait for next Thursday. I just know he's going to answer my question! But don't let that stop you from getting in a few of your own. For inspiration, look at Conason and Lyons 'The Hunting of the President' or do a seach for Isikoff on The Daily Howler.
MJM
Personal attacks are over the line, and tireless Tena should never have been subject to the least whisker's twitch of reproach.
bad Jim
tena has made her share of stupid comments. It seems that some people have long memories.
My opinion is if you don't want to look like an ass don't make the comment.
All it really takes is for someone to scroll through the archives.
If you are a hypocrite then a bit of research will cathc you out.
Good God, are you saying that our president is a girly-boy pole-smoking fag?
Wild Eyed Lefty
You may want to google Dubya and Victor Ashe.
In this thread I think too many of us have been too harsh on some of the visitors. Publius was good -- even-tempered, at least -- and even Anonymous (assuming there was only one) was actually largely compatible, although his (?) put-downs of other posters were beyond the pale.
bad Jim
If certain posters are hypocrite, why should they get a pass because they defend Democrats?
Take the time and read the archives for some of tena's posts.
pie's as well.
That doesn't mean that they fail to make insightful comments within their own limited spheres. But they are not part of the average person working class. And if they ever were it was long ago and now forgotten.
If I am a bookbinder, and you need a doctor why would take my advice?
If you wanted your books rebound, then yes that would be my field of expertise.
Just don't pretend that your life of special protection and rights puts you in the same category as those that do not have that.
The "dark skinned husband at the airport" for example. Whoo boy, whitey gets stopped once ( really only had his small bag looked at) and suddenly she can understand what darkskinned peoples go through.
mooser | Email | Homepage | 02.01.04 - 8:46 am | #
Not mooser.
My opinion is if you don't want to look like an ass don't make the comment.
Then shut the fuck up because you make stupid, whiny comments on a daily basis. Look in the mirror, you pathetic piece of shit. NOT ONE person has agreed with your assessment. Give it up.
Poor, poor anonymous. sniff. sniff. sob.
You're embarrassing yourself. Typical asshole who blames everyone else for his problems.
You certainly don't speak for the majority.
Look fellerz,
There's just something about Tena. Like I wrote earlier, we're all in the same boat. I understood living downtown for a year watching blacks getting pulled over by police almost everytime they drove past what being profiled meant. A friend of mine, who owned the duplex actually is a racist but is an attorney was outraged by it -- go figure.
I woke up this morning to the news that over 200 people were killed or wounded in Iraq by suicide bombers! My God! What kind of people are we? We were warned before the war (by experts in the know) that this would be exactly what would happen, i.e., civil war between the different factions in Iraq)!
This war is not only illegal and immoral, it is shamefully stupid!
If it were up to me, I would not only vote for impeachment, I would vote for a war criminal trial for Bush as a mass murderer! DML
OT (if possible), but from the Column of the Day:
... Maybe you remember the almost bizarre bill of particulars brought against Clinton in the House articles of impeachment. One article charged him with perjury because he had said he had "occasional" conversations with Lewinsky when, according to phone records, he'd had exactly 17 such conversations.
If that was perjury - and maybe it was - what do you call it when the president stands before his nation, holding ambiguous and unproven information, and warns the people that "final proof" of the existence of these disputed weapons possessed by Hussein "could come in the form of a mushroom cloud?"
Is that perjury, too? Or is that just someone used to getting his way, regardless of the facts?
Gordon: when wasn't the GOP the humanitarian/interventionist party? 1854-March, 2003; June, 2003-Present.
Gordon: when wasn't the GOP the humanitarian/interventionist party? 1854-March, 2003; June, 2003-Present.
You were punk'd like a dog Dorothy, just like I just was.
Fucking quit posting as others assholes.
"Gordon: when wasn't the GOP the humanitarian/interventionist party? 1854-March, 2003; June, 2003-Present.
jesse"
Alrighty then, let's just re-fight the Civil War here while we're at it to add the cherry on top of political confusion.
My. Atrios posts no new fodder (a.k.a., "has a life") for less than 24 hours, and this thing degenerates into 400 posts of high school again. Trolls are fed, watered, given dessert and an aperitif. Gosh, no wonder Lefties are so effective, and well-respected.
Here... want something to talk about? There's a nice funeral, this morning, that you all might like to attend. It's Howard Dean's, and services are being conducted by the venerable Ms. Wilgoren. Registration with NY Times may be necessary:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/0...ign/
01DEAN.html
OT, kinda, but since we're talking about the heathers, check this out
Got the link right this time - Diane Sawyer's doing a mea culpa on 'the scream'
I am kind of curious to see what happens if the blue numbers go over 999.
This football game we're hearing so much about might have something to do with it. And they say opera fans are flaky and silly. Who would you rather have holding the scalpel over you?
For the last twenty years, 'libruls' have had a " respectful dialogue" with Wingers.
Coriolanus, I saw it on TV. What the hell is she playing at? She's never had misgivings about her many, many journalistic sins. Elian, for example. I think they're trying to play the Democratic front runners against each other. Start a fight to Georgie's benefit.
That play you're in isn't given often enough.
Even Clinton, a yuppie, said you have to beat the Wingers to death.
Trolls are fed, watered, given dessert and an aperitif.
not to mention given a foot massage and pedicure.
Gord's a little troll
that's small and made of clay
but I'm not gonna play with him
cuz trolls are frickin' gay
Trolls
Play stupid games
Trolls
That's why they're lame
Meet the Press was happy enough with "the scream" to play it once again in the opening to its show this morning, wondering whether Howard will be able to overcome it.
Oh, and Publius will be back. Have at it with your 'librul' facts. FACTS, that any reasonable person would overwhelmingly understand.
And I wont comment.
More telling on that CJR page linked above, is a blurb entitled, "Making Sense of It All". Reference is made to another Times article in which it's pointed out that this election year, for the first time, the Democratic candidates have adopted a more confrontational. "us against them" tone, previously unknown when taking on the snarling Right. Implied, of course, is, "Will this work?"
Here's my only fear, and it really has nothing to do with which tack the Dems take. And I repeat my oft-made caveat that we've been snookered into fearing Rove as the great and powerful Oz behind the curtain, when he is only human, and completely containable (hey, did you like the fact that Kerry is referencing Karl Rove on the stump? I have always said: "RUN AGAINST ROVE!", and he's DOING it!):
Somewhere in a closed-off room with a two-way mirror, Bush political operatives are or have conducted experiments with human monkeys ("the Undecideds", who fuck us every time!). They are testing various "George Bushes" on them, to see which persona plays better against the opposition leader of an angry and energized electorate. The personality which elicits the most positive emotional response, becomes W 2004.
Always remember Reagan's "Morning In America" TV spots. They were about nothing, a good 5 or 6 years before "Seinfeld" debuted. They told you nothing of the problems of the country... what, you kidding? There WERE none! No deficit, no Iran-Contra... everything is beautiful, in it's own way. Sing it with me!
Just find a cipher that'll make those Undecideds feel good, and no political movement or uprising can possibly compete with a good complacency buzz.
EPT, that's what stunned me...this is a new wrinkle. What could the motivation be? I want to think they've smelt a Dean win in November, and want to appear to be on the side of Good, but I don't know....call me cynical about the media's motives, but I've seen too much Bush-love from them to believe one single word they say
February 7th, make a sign that says, "I am Howard Dean's special interest" and go to a busy intersection and hold it up for everyone to see. I think it's 4 pm ET. Check website for details, if you didn't get the email.
Barry--
I wanted to follow up on something you said--with something I have posted here before--as you implied Karl Rove is no genius!!! What makes him effective is that he is ruthless and that he is willing to go lower than human decency and accepted ethics permits (take for example S.C. push polls against McCain, outing Plame, holding the convention in September in NYC--not genius--just bold, risky and slimy). This, however, has a real potential to backfire on Bush--if the Rove tactics are dragged out into the public, it would undoubtedly cost them.
Is that perjury, too? Or is that just someone used to getting his way, regardless of the facts?
dave
Good article, dave. Do you think it's ever going to get beyond the 'bad intelligence and it's Tenet's fault (after all he was Clinton's man!)' to being something 'they' could really look at and dig into on bush's watch? We can always hope ...
I want to know what happened to the donkey. The one pulling the cart with the explosives? Has he/she been detained and put next door to Saddam? Has the donkey been questioned? No. Saddam told him/her to be silent. I think we need a Congressional investigation into the donkey's ties to Al-Q.
Rudy C.
Just to set the record straight, and because I'm just totally tired of it - Here's my aristocratic background:
Both my mother's mother and my father's mother were servants. My father's mother came over from Norway and went to work as a housemaid for a rich family on the shores of Lake Superior. My father didn't graduate from high school.
My mother's mother grew up on a farm, married a barber, divorced him in 1914, moved to Colorado and became a maid. She eventually moved up to be the head housekeeper at Glen Eyrie. My mother grew up in the servants' quarters there.
When my parents married, my dad was working in a gas station in Chinatown in L.A., and my mother was a Sees Candy girl at the Farmer's Market in L.A.
My mother worked until I was born. The only job my dad ever had where he made good money was the one he got after I was born. I grew up in a suburban tract house in a little crappy town in Texas.
I am comfortable now because my husband works his ass off and my dad knew how to handle money, and I was an only child. Both my parents are dead, and because they owned their home, I was able, upon selling it, to buy a little place in Colorado, which I had dreamed of doing for 30 years.
I would love to be a princess - I don't know anyone who wouldn't. But yes, I have worked in Colorado every year in order to be able to afford to stay there.
Now shut the fuck up about me, Anonymous. I am sick of your slander and your stalking me through these threads.
The post by "mooser" at 8:45 was not me. I was sound asleep but I am embarrassed by it anyway. I'll be at a Dean training today, soYou won't have Mooser to kick around any more! and as for trolls: Feh! And I mean that to sting!
Tena
Hubby is a texas Republican right?
And according to a google search you stated you stopped working for the 5 th circuit in texas about 1992.
So is your husband one of the Bush donors? Did you go to the parties?
Interesting enough your last post about Colorado stated you worked part of a single summer, and had enough of the menial labor.
Now you claim you work every summer?
Which is it?
Too damn bad archives don't go back a couple of years. I would really love to compare what you said over time and see how your story evolved.
Did they ever figure out wether you were mac Diva or not? You seemed fairly defensive.
So you worked part time for only three years and had enough?
Backslider - thanks for the offer, sweetie. I think I got my official menial job points working in the grocery store in Colorado for 3 years in a row to finance my stay there. I ran the only cash register (people lined up all the way out the door in July, getting pissed off,) helped unload the truck on Wednesdays when the owner came back with the week's order, and then stocked shelves. Usually the frozen food and the drug items - worst stocking jobs in the store, and that's saying a lot. I even got up at 2 AM and made the truck run with the owner one week when his regular helper couldn't make it. Then summer before last, I worked in a gift shop - thought it would be easier. Ha ha ha. I ended up washing the store's windows, planting all the flowers she bought for out front, breaking down all the boxes and cleaning the bathroom. And waiting on the customers. That'll do it for me for awhile. Thanks for the offer.
Tena
I am not answering any more of your accusations and I'm not going to respond to any more of your slander. Quit stalking me.
This is the end of it, Anonymous. You don't exist anymore.
- Back to the topic - MoDO. I dont think that she is anti Dean as everyone is asserting. True, her article against Dean a couple of weeks ago (in relation to the invisibility of his wife and poor access to him), was followed by a column that stated (following the Diane Sawyer interview) that Dr Judy seemed quite "charming" and praised how she came across. Most of the time, MoDo jumps the Bushies...but thats ok with us right? I am not justifying how unfair she was to Dean, but she is hardly our worst enemy either.
This is the end of it, Anonymous. You don't exist anymore.
Tena
It seems that there are quaestions as to who you exist as. Party girl Democrat on your Republican ( Bush) donors arm at the Governors mansion.
Or is it cereal breath? Macdiva?
Someone who suddenly claims she worked for her four month a year vacation.
So which tena is the real one?
If any at all.
On the other hand Anon- I know you exist. I've got hundreds of quotes from you. It is a shame that you;ve gone so far downhill. Driven to distraction by the thought that someone you've never seen is, gasp, comfortable. If you're going to explode every time you come across a person with a couple more bucks than you, you are in sad shape. I think your unhinged. What a headline:Anonymous commits suicide Pull yourself together.
Tena,
You cant let these trolls get to you and dont have to explain yourself. The guy is probably getting sucked off by altar boys now anyway.
Tena, I apologize, I was just outed as a NAMBLA member in my community and needed someone to take it out on.
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