I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Wow, the Bears aren't entirely worthless after all. Very good to see.
The great thing about the gay marriage debate is that it is taking place now. Way earlier than Karl Rove had planned.
isn't Baylor a Baptist school?
I guess some of them southern baptist parents are going to have to make a little trip to Waco and have a come to Jeebus moment.
In Waco Texas
Yes fat sam, Baylor is IIRC the largest southern baptist college in the country.
Good on them!
This is consistent with the fact that, although polls show most Americans are against gay marriages, they also show that most Americans under 30 are in favor.
If anyone refuses to believe that gay marriages are going to be legal in most states 10 years from now, they need to have their head examined.
Baylor is in Waco TX where David Koresh and the ATF had their standoff. Also, I think Waco has been recovering from the Baylor basketball player being killed by another player and his body thrown in a lake.
Wow. This is something....
But I have to wonder if members fo the editorial board are going to suddenly be removed....
We'll hear about this, if we hear about it at all, in the context of liberal minorities indocrinating mush-headed, innocent, conservative, Jesus-loving freshman.
Them professers is all Satan's-butt-kissing comminists.
This is cause for celebration. And, I don't at all think this is an isolated incident! In the past week and the weekend, I've heard numerous reports of Christians of all stripes coming out and saying, pretty much, that there just isn't any hatred in Christ's message so why should they be opposed? It is a very refreshing turn of events to say the least!
It would appear, at lest to me, that there is a movement afoot and that it is not solely a movement in the gay community but that many straight people and many of the religious as well are looking at this for what it is -- an issue of fairness, equity, and, truth be told, love.
It was a Baylor economics prof that advocated boycotting Girl Scout cookies because the money went to support Planned Parenthood. Good to see the students have more sense.
Surely it is just the influence of the shockingly liberal professors...of Texas. Where's the Young Rethugs? Would they be planning a lynching or a firebombing in response?
"...endorses marriage rights for gays and lesbian."
Atrios, you've been reading too much of John from IU.
Zowie!
We can only hope that reasoned thought will float above the shit we here from the likes of Musgrave.
Her "slippery slope" argument with SF Mayor on CNN was laughable. (The good Mayor was having a hard time keeping from snickerin through his reaasoned answer to her "are we next going to have Group Marrianges" question.)
Fun facts about Baylor:
For a long time it was against the rules to dance on campus at Baylor. (That may have changed recently.)
Being openly gay or lesbian is against the rules.
Dorms are single-sex and have visiting hours.
Woohoo Baylor.
I read John from IU, too:
snickering.
Yeah, the editorial board of the Baylor Lariat has also called for Bush to resign in an issue last September.
Re: the girl scouts - that troop- 7087 - has been disbanded by the girls' parents. They apparently got upset over the idea of their daughters morals being corrupted by the wicked folks of Planned Parenthood.
*sigh* Two steps forward, one step back.
On the Other Hand - cookie sales skyrocketed after the Christian Radio station called for the boycott. One troop leader, Becky Parker, who is the cookie distributor for the Waco troops said: "People thought the boycott was ridiculous and was one man's extremist views."
So maybe it was a draw.
Those poor J students are probably in for a world of hurt next week.
Those poor J students are probably in for a world of hurt next week.
Can't be much worse than nearby Texas A&M that is closing down it's college of journalism.
Yeah. This editorial board is so fucked. Baylor-twenty years ago--replaced the Lariat editors when they dared write a piece against the school's decision to close its Department of Journalism. Maybe they're not so heavy-handed these days.
Melissa O - I'm sure you are aware that allsex is prohibited at Baylor unless the people engaging in it are married to each other.
Baylor had hopes to host the Bush Presidential Library.
Baylor University Hoping to Host Bush Presidential Library
Yes fat sam, Baylor is IIRC the largest southern baptist college in the country
Tediously technical point, but when the SBC (Southern Baptist Convention) tried to force the issue of women obeying their wives, many churches in Texas left the Convention.
At about the same time, Baylor was getting pressured to have a "litmus test" for professors, a sort of "loyalty oath for Jesus." Baylor refused, knowing it would make them an academic laughing stock, and pulled out of the Convention, too, because it was chartered years before the Convention was formed.
But it's still a very CONSERVATIVE place....Good school. But very strait-laced.
The only thing I would change about the editorial is that it ends with a question (both poor writing and poor forensics). Otherwise, ... cool!
Although Baylor has pretty conservative rules, its student body is a good mix of drank-the-Koolaid fundamentalists and more secular kids. I seriously doubt that the editorial board will get in any trouble with campus officials or fellow students, though they're definitely take flak from many residents of Waco.
(Authority: dated a Baylor nurse while in grad school. I'm glad I don't live in Texas any more, but thank goodness for Texas ladies.)
OT: I've got a complaint. A small one, but it's annoying the hell out of me.
Those cover images from amazon take forever to load - I just timed it - over a minute to try to load, and at the end of the wait, the images never loaded!
I'm on a cable modem here, and it's as annoying as hell. While I'm waiting for amazon's images to load, the comment popups don't work. I have to wait for the amazon images to finish not loading in order to get to the comments thread.
Other than that, i love this place. But amazon's on my shit list, and has been for the past week or so.
Anyone else having this problem, or is amazon just punishing me for some reason?
This is a big deal. This is the Little General yelling charge, and his soldiers look at him, put their weapons down and walk away.
Crawford is just 35 miles south of Waco. Baylor is the crown jewel of Baptist universities. It is not Bob Jones University.
In the case of the two basketball players, one killed the other, and the coach told everybody to cover it up. The coach's name was Bliss.
Somtimes the right thing to do is not follow your bliss.
Um, wow. It should be noted though that not all of Baylor's students are Southern Baptists, in fact a friend of mine who is a Confucianist Taiwanese immigrant went there. She did take Bible classes, I can't remember if they were an optional elective or required, but she found it interesting.
Baylor isn't exactly a Southern Baptist madrassah, and is somewhat religiously diverse (the second-largest religious group on campus are Catholics). That role would be filled by East Texas Baptist University... "A ring by spring, or your money back!" is what we Southern Baptist kids living near Waco said ETBU's motto was.
Baylor also contains the Truett Seminary, which, if I recall properly, was formed to offer a more inquiring alternative to the Convention-supported Southwestern Theological Seminary in Dallas (or was it Ft. Worth?)
Oh, and by the way, that whole Branch Davidian thing went down about 15 miles outside of the city. All I can gather is it became associated with Waco because Waco is where all the regional television stations are and was the nearest city that appeared on everyone's national maps. I had a co-worker from up here traveling through Texas who was shocked to encounter a rush-hour traffic jam on I-35 and to see that Waco was a medium-sized city as she drove from Dallas to San Antonio.
Are gays really social conservatives??
Consider what they've been fighting for the last ten years:
1. The right to serve in the military.
2. The right to belong to (or lead) the Boy Scouts.
3. The right to adopt children.
4. The right to serve as priests or ministers.
5. The right to get married.
Sounds like the kind of people the GOP ought to be trying to win votes from. If they were smart, that is.
Crawford is 35 miles *west* of Waco, not *south*. That would be Temple.
Can't be real, nobody's that big a moron, not even GWB.
hey, re: this talk of one man/one woman being the basic, optimum family unit...
if you look at the whole history of humankind, isn't the basic, optimum unit we must protect
the tribe?
Baylor had hopes to host the Bush Presidential Library
I thought little Georgie could use a broom closet at his dad's library at A&M, after all, how many books could he have? Handful of Dr. Suess, some Cliff notes, a few penthouses...
Rock on, Baylor!
.
......
Atrios, can we have a few hundred more posts on gay marriage? I just can't read enough about it.
Baylor is practically the Baptist Harvard. I had high hopes of going there (I have family in Waco and Temple), but was accepted at another Baptist university in the Northeast, and so it goes.
Did you know that Baylor and Brown are sister schools? Now it is all beginning to make sense...
Tena: That's true, having sex (gay or straight) is also against the rules. But--that's not what I was talking about.
Bible courses are required at Baylor; a semester of Old Testament and a semester of New. My little brother attended Wayland Baptist University up in the Texas panhandle, and they had the same requirements. Incidentally, my very open-minded and very Baptist aunt is a history prof there. Yes, it's possible.
To answer an earlier question, Baylor's on-campus dancing ban was lifted in 1995. Frats, sororities, and other groups had been hosting off-campus dances for quite awhile though.
An additional note on the founding of Baylor and the true Baptist spirit: it was founded in 1845. When it was having financial difficulties in its first few years, the state of Texas offered to help. It rejected the help, because Baptists were (and many still are) firm in their belief in the separation of church and state. That many of the strongest proponents of Bush's Faith-Based Initiatives are Southern Baptists makes me wonder whatever happened to the traditional Baptist belief in the separation of church and state. It works both ways, guys...
You mean, Baylor wants to host a library of all Dubya's presidential records, none of which the public will be permitted to see?
OT, but still cool. Atrios should post the link:
Three months after the GOP-controlled Congress expanded Medicare to include prescription drug benefits that Americans have long wanted, the political bounce that Republicans had hoped for is eluding them, as critics rail against the new law and voters say they still trust Democrats more on the issue.
The criticisms and setbacks for the party have come rapidly, just as Republicans enter an election season in which they had hoped Medicare would shine as one of their brightest domestic achievements. The House ethics committee is investigating a GOP lawmaker’s vote on the bill, and a federal agency is questioning the legality of the Bush administration’s $9.5 million advertising campaign to promote the law. Several Republicans are angry that the White House’s most recent cost estimate for the changes in the program is one-third more than Congress had been led to believe.
In such a volatile climate, liberal and conservative lawmakers, for different reasons, are racing to introduce bills to change key aspects of the law. Discontent is strong enough on Capitol Hill that some Republicans say the Medicare legislation, which passed the House and Senate by sliver-thin margins in November, probably would fail if the votes were taken today.
"There is buyers’ remorse among many who voted for it," said Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.), who opposed the bill and said he has encountered no criticism from constituents.
http://tinyurl.com/2sjtk
Leo: you have family in Temple? That's where I'm from...
Tediously technical point, but when the SBC (Southern Baptist Convention) tried to force the issue of women obeying their wives, many churches in Texas left the Convention.
Apparently the baptists were way out in front of this whole marriage thing!
()
when the SBC (Southern Baptist Convention) tried to force the issue of women obeying their wives, many churches in Texas left the Convention.
I think reading that IU student's blog lowered everyone's IQ by 15 points... [g]
Yes, I have an aunt and uncle, and cousin, who lived in Temple until a few years ago. The Haberls. My uncle worked in the Postal Service as a letter carrier.
The thing that I thought coolest about Baylor at the time was that they allowed you to take Aramaic to fill your language requirement. Then again, I was (and still am) a confirmed geek.
Have any of you seen this Thomas Jefferson Quote that's flying around? I don't know if it is legitimate or not.
"I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors"
A Texan in Maryland. Thanks for the correction. I made the mistake of going to the Crawford, Texas website to get that info.
Should have known it was inaccurate since they claim to be "the Hometown of President George W. Bush."
My wife was thinking about applying there for a doctorate program last year. They really talked it up, "plenty of money, hiring new professors, etc". She decided not to, and now because of budget problems that Gov. GWB left us, Baylor axed all those plans.
These kids know the score.
Waco actually has a nice little counter culture. Take into account 1) It is a college town (yeah, its religious, but I've know too many preacher's daughters to fall for that) and; 2) There isn't a damn thing else for two hours north or south (that would be Austin and Dallas).
Just outside of Waco there is a freaky little truck stop called Carl's Corner. It is the Titty Twister from Dusk Till Dawn, but run by shit kicker vampires instead of Mexican vampires. Carl goes so far for advertising that he created his own town just to get the green sign on the side of the road. I hear they also ranch chickens.
Baylor had hopes to host the Bush Presidential Library.
Does he have that many comic books?
Look, the paper is called "The Lariat". Could it be any gayer?
Carl's Corner isn't the Waco joint with the giant beer goblets, is it? I went to a wedding in Waco years ago with some friends. We all spent the night there. Before we went to the wedding we went to a famous local joint with the biggest beer glasses on earth - goblet shaped, but enormous.
I used to work with a woman from Waco. She was a Catholic and her father had the Coors distributorship for that whole part of Texas. The family was, let's just say, very very comfortable.
The federal fascists weigh in:
"In another development related to the weddings, the Social Security Administration has told its offices nationwide not to accept marriage certificates from San Francisco as proof of identification for newlyweds looking to make name changes on Social Security cards."
PK's (Preachers' Kids) are the ones most likely to introduce the rest of the youth group to smoking. It worked that way for my youth group, anyway.
However, the wildest kids in the youth group were the MK's (Missionaries' Kids) who were members while their parents were on furlough from the field.
Armadillo, I agree, I worked for a bit around there and I don’t know about all those zany places you mentioned, but for a transplanted (transiently) NY person, for me it was a Huge Thrill to find Faux Burgers and Faux Tacos and Faux Turkey Slices.
Yeah I know, I get thrilled easily .
Only downside is the Counter Culture around there is Repub too .
.....
I thought the same thing about the Lariat .
.....
"There is buyers’ remorse among many who voted for it," said Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.), who opposed the bill and said he has encountered no criticism from constituents.
Hahaha. I bet there's a lot of that going around on Capitol Hill these days.
Ouch. Nick Smith must be really happy he didn't cave into the bullying tactics and bribes.
Does he have that many comic books?
ROFLMAO!!!
I hear his collection of Chick Tracts fills several large-sized shoeboxes!
"Baylor is in Waco TX where David Koresh and the ATF had their standoff."
OK, quick quiz -
Which is closer to Waco, TX:
A) Bush's 'ranch'
B) The site of the Branch Davidian compound
.
...We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors"
Someone quoted this just last night on... Maher? Who the hell was it? I want to say it was Ian McKellan (probably screwed up the spelling, but he was MOST charming, IMHO!).
Belton Armadillo: didn't Carl end up committing arson on his own truck stop for the insurance money at some point?
Tena: Nope. Carl's Corner is on I-35E (north of the interstate split; the side that goes to Dallas), which happens around Hillsboro, which is 20-30 miles north of Waco.
Melissa O had these facts right - but there's more.
* For a long time it was against the rules to dance on campus at Baylor.
Right, though it did change recently. Rumor was that some of the named buildings had clauses stating they were to be torn down if there were ever a dance held on campus.
*Dorms are single-sex and have visiting hours.
True; however, in the late 1980s, when the Southwest Conference was still in existence (big TX schools plus Arkansas), Baylor had the highest pregnancy rate in the SWC.
Which leads to the classic unifying Baylor joke:
Why do Baylor's administrators take such a stringent stand against sex?
It might lead to dancing.
That quote is apparently TJ -- it's at his memorial.
Thomas Jefferson Memorial Inscriptions
Scroll down to Letter to George Washington, January 4, 1786.
I guess that noise I heard the other day WAS the sound of a cowboy blowing his own foot off.
I found some pictures of Carl's Corner on some message thread. The thread is kinda strange...I don't even want to figure out what it is for.
If the titty bar is closed what the hell do they do in that back room? Always wondered...
Baylor also has it own secret society like Skull & Bones called NOZE, they use to meet Sunday night on the top of some campus building and plan their latest campus prank.
PK's (Preachers' Kids) are the ones most likely to introduce the rest of the youth group to smoking. It worked that way for my youth group, anyway.
The only boy who could ever teach me/
Was the son of a preacher man
Worked sorta that way in my group, too. I was in an Episcopalian youth group ages ago. I dated the... um, group leader-guy (my age)... for a short while (this was high-school years). Nervous guy. Read a couple years later in the paper that he'd been arrested for killing a woman in a parking lot. Creeped me right straight out. Glad I didn't hang around to figure out what was wrong with him. The group itself wasn't bad, though; lot of nice people there.
Ah, the NOZE Brothers. I remember the Baylor-bound preppy guys in my youth group talking about them admiringly.
the Social Security Administration has told its offices nationwide not to accept marriage certificates from San Francisco as proof of identification for newlyweds looking to make name changes on Social Security cards."
Sounds incredible, Anon. Links?
Belton Armadillo: now that I think about it, my family never stopped at Carl's Corner, even though we went up to Dallas to see my grandparents all the time. Maybe it was because the Czech Stop sold such yummy kolaches and Hillsboro provided a quite adequate Dairy Queen, but perhaps other factors influenced my parents' choice of rest stops.
Somewhat OT, but a good quote from Tony Kushner in this SF Chronk article on recent gay marriages:
The prominent role of public opinion polls in the debate about same-sex marriage is "exactly not the point," Kushner said. He offered a theoretical analogy: If 70 percent of the population were to tell pollsters they disliked a particular racial or ethnic group, "you say, well, we don't care. They're American, and their rights are equal to yours.
"That's having a democracy, as opposed to mob rule."
I can't believe nobody's yet mentioned Waco's greatest claim to fame: It's where Dr. Pepper was invented. Don't miss the museum.
a T in M: Your right, NOZE Brothers. A buddy was a member, they were sworn to secrecy to never divulge they were a member or any of the other members. Apparently they were kinda like the BMOC (big men on campus). They use to do a lot of pranks making fun of the fundies IIRC.
OT: Today in Iraq
02/28/04 AP: Explosion Damages Oil Pipeline Near Samarra
An explosion damaged part of Iraq's oil pipeline system, witnesses said Saturday - the second time an oil facility near Samarra has been damaged.
02/28/04 ArabTimes: US Troops Kill 2 After Drive-by Shooting
US troops killed two suspects Saturday after a drive-by shooting attack on an Iraqi police traffic control point in the northern city of Mosul, the military said in a statement.
02/28/04 IRIB News: Iraqi police officer die in shooting
An Iraqi police officer was killed early Saturday in a shooting attack on a roadblock in the northern city of Kirkuk, the local police chief said.
02/28/04 Scotsman: Roadside Bomb Damages British Army Vehicle
A roadside bomb damaged a British army vehicle on patrol in Iraq today, but no one was injured, a UK military spokesman said.
02/28/04 SHNS: Armed militants terrorizing Basra
Gangs of armed militants, operating with almost complete impunity, are terrorizing the streets of Iraq’s second-largest city, assaulting and killing alcohol and video merchants ...
02/28/04 AFP: Two Soldiers Lightly Wounded In Tikrit Friday Morning
Two soldiers were also lightly wounded in a bomb blast in Tikrit Friday morning, the military said.
02/28/04 AFP: Three Soldiers Wounded South of Tikrit
Thursday, three soldiers were wounded south of Tikrit...when a grenade was fired at their vehicle. The three are in a stable condition, a military spokesman said.
02/28/04 AFP: Civilian Killed In RPG Attack
A civilian was killed late Thursday in a rocket-propelled grenade attack on the offices of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan in the northern city of Kirkuk, police said
The other editorial in the paper is an article about how getting married at 20 isn't a bad idea because living with a boy is funner than living with girls.
Basharov - A friend that is a Dr. Pepper addict drives to Waco to get his Dr. Pepper in the 6.5 ounce returnable bottles - Swears that it taste different than the rest.
TheaLogie - it's at the very end of this article:
California high court refuses to halt gay marriages
Mayor in N.Y. state
weds gay couples
Posted on Sat, Feb. 28, 2004
Social Security won't accept SF marriage licenses as ID
Associated Press
SAN FRANCISCO - The Social Security Administration has told its offices nationwide not to accept marriage certificates from San Francisco as proof of identification for newlyweds looking to make name changes on Social Security cards.
The new policy doesn't just apply to the 3,344 same-sex couples that married in San Francisco during the last two weeks. Heterosexual couples who wed after Feb. 12 also need to supply documents other than San Francisco-issued marriage licenses if they want to change the names on their Social Security cards.
"Since the legality of the marriage licenses are in question, we are not accepting that document to change names," said Leslie Walker, a spokeswoman in the regional office that covers California and seven other western states and U.S. territories.
The policy instruction was sent Thursday to all Social Security Administration offices nationwide, but it applies only to marriage licenses issued in San Francisco, said Lowell Kepke, a spokesman for Social Security's western region.
The scope of the directive means that couples who live in Ohio, Pennsylvania or other states and came to San Francisco to tie the knot won't be able to change their Social Security cards when they return home, Kepke said.
Kepke said he did not know if any gay couples had shown up at a Social Security office to obtain new cards and been turned away for lack of sufficient identification.
The restriction is scheduled to remain in effect until further notice, he said.
San Francisco mayor Gavin Newsom criticized President Bush's decision as "political and retaliatory."
"He is now discriminating against San Franciscan gay and straight. We are consulting with the City Attorney and will take immediate steps to get this directive overturned," Newsom said.
The California Department of Motor Vehicles has not yet determined whether it will accept the San Francisco marriage licenses.
"The DMV's legal counsel is examining the issue very closely," said DMV spokesman Bill Branch.
He said the department expects to make a decision on the licenses in the next week.
_
check out the editorial board ... I'm sure they're all all very nice people ... in a Waco TX kind of way ... but for some reason, this sounds like the end credits of a generic porn flick ...
Lacy Elwood
editor in chief
Caressa Lattimore
copy desk chief
Hannah Lodwick
city editor
Clint Cox
news editor
Sandi Villarreal
senior staff writer
Elvia Aguilar
assistant city editor
Tara Sewell
editorial cartoonist
PK's (Preachers' Kids) are the ones most likely to introduce the rest of the youth group to smoking. It worked that way for my youth group, anyway.
I was the son of a Mormon bishop and the great great grandson of a Mormon prophet. I introduced a good number of the other kids in my ward to beer, pot, mushrooms, my little soldier, and even coffee.
A Texan in Maryland: We never stopped there either even though bathrooms are scarce between Waco and Dallas.
I finally stopped there once on a road trip with some friends. It is the only place I have ever seen that had 40 oz. bottles of Heineken. We spent the rest of the trip making up Yuppie Gangsta Raps about our 40 oz. Hiney's (sung to the Bestie Boys Get Whatcha Whatcha Want song):
Weeeelll I'm kicking back
With my big 4 0
Watching FNN
Diggin on my portfolio
Crusing on my mower
Wearing sandles and my socks
I'm feelin kinda mellow
Cause Neil Diamond rocks
Chillin' with my homies
Down at AppleBee's
My girly shops at Foley's
Before I put her on her knees.
Yo, I'm a Yuppie Gangsta
I've got a platinum card
Two swirl rita's and viagra
Get my solider hard, yeah...
It really writes itself.
chris/tx - there is a reason why the Dr. Pepper from the place of origin tastes better - it is made with Imperial Sugar (says so right on the front of the can) as opposed to high fructose corn syrup. That's the same reason coke tastes different now. They are killing people with the high fructose corn syrups (the leading contributor to the increase in certain types of Diabetes.)
I had some real Dr. Pepper last weekend - amazing difference. But I thought it came form Dublin, Tx, not Waco. Maybe that's a newer development.
I was the son of a Mormon bishop and the great great grandson of a Mormon prophet. I introduced a good number of the other kids in my ward to beer, pot, mushrooms, my little soldier, and even coffee.
ROFLMAO!
I love it. Coming from generations of devout Lutherans... my grandfather founded the church where my mother was baptized, married; I was baptized, married; had 2 kids baptized there ... that was before I divorced the Lutheran husband (with even longer German Lutheran pedigree)... and divorced the church. Lutheran university too, where I traded my BA for an Mrs. All the pastor's kids I've ever known were hell-raisers and proud of it.
Lyndon Johnson: Oh wow, it's been years since I heard that joke.
George W. Bush isn't going to have a presidential library. Are you kidding? After they've shredded or burned all of the incriminating documents, there won't be enough left to fill a modest three-ring binder.
Thanks Tena, I seem to remember now that you mention it regarding the imperial sugar vs fructose corn syrup. All I know is that he drives to the old bottling plant to get it, don't know if it is in Waco or Dublin.
As far as coke, I would prefer the recipe they used turn of the century, sure would help amurika chill out a little...
Oh I just have to jump in here after hanging back. I can't really discuss what a preacher's son introduced me to, but he was the wildest, most imaginative, least inhibited man I've ever met.
When I was going to college at UT, we called Baylor "Jerusalem on the Brazos". I still call it that. I think Waco is one of the most god forsaken places on the face of the earth, but hearing you can get Dr. Pepper made with Imperial sugar? Damn, I may just have to go back.
I suspect these kids will be under some pressure after that editorial.
chris/tx - oh don't we all wish for the original recipe coke, the most aptly named beverage ever when it started out.
Where in Maryland are you, Texan? (If'n you don't mind the question.)
My folks were born and raised in Texas (Temple and Austin, actually) but moved to Annapolis after they got married in '62.
OT Tip of the day
If you want to keep a weapons selling operation secret, don't print up full color glossy brochures:
Dr. A.Q. Khan's "rogue" nuclear technology marketing operation
Waco is a strange place, no matter what anyone says. When I worked for the state Court of Appeals in Dallas, we used to really look forward to getting the opinions from the state Court of Appeals in Waco. They were always completely out of agreement with the other 11 state appellate courts. It used to be a treat to read those opinions because they were so bizarre. This was years ago and so I don't know if that is still true. But appellate judges in Texas are elected, so I would imagine that, unless the electorate in that judicial district has changed, the judges on that court are more of the same.
Tena: Dr. Pepper comes from Waco. But everybody knows that the best Dr. Pepper comes from Dublin. For some reason (unknown to me) they use a different formula.
Leo, didn't know that (DP from Dublin). Also the Thomas Jefferson quote was made by Ian McKellan last night on Maher. It's brilliant.
Where the hell is Dublin?
Nevermind, I looked it up on Mapquest.
With all this talk of different versions of Dr. Pepper and Coke, it's time to share a story of Guiness I heard in a London pub a long time ago.
Story was that quality control discovered rodent parts when they started analysing the beer. They reported it to higher ups and following up on it an opening was discovered in an aging vat and remedied.
All well and good, but a short while later sales fell off. Customers said it just didn't taste the same.
Management processed this and sent the team out to unblock the opening again. Sales improved a short time later.
Dr Pepper with real sugar?
Damn. One more reason to go on living.
Of course, real aficianados remember the "hot Dr. Pepper" campaign of our childhoods.
That such an idea didn't sink the brand immediately is a tribute to its formula (now ruined, like everything else worth having, by "corn syrup." Corn syrup is for sweet potatoes at Thanksgiving....)
I'm impressed with Baylor
From Wikipedia:
Dublin is a city located in Erath County, Texas. As of the 2000 census, the city had a total population of 3,754.
The town is the home of the world's oldest Dr Pepper bottling plant. The plant, still in operation, is the only US source for Dr Pepper made with real cane sugar (from Texas-based Imperial Sugar), instead of less expensive corn syrup. Contractual requirements limit the plant's distribution range to a 40-mile radius of Dublin, an area encompassing Stephenville, Tolar, Comanche and Hico.
You can order it here. A case of 8 oz. non-return bottles will cost you $15 plus $5 shipping. From what I've heard, it's worth it.
Why didn't they come up with ads like this for Iowa?
http://www.thankyouhoward.com/
Or "sweet potatos."
Somehow, even after Dan Quayle, that just looks wrong....
Wow. My local news (a FOX channel) just reported a rumor that OBL has been captured. They quoted a source as saying Bush was holding him for election year propaganda and that Rummy's recent trip there was related.
It is worth it - invaluable link, patriotboy - the Dr. Pepper I had last Saturday was from Dublin. I got it from a freelance food writer I was touring ethnic markets in the area with. I took 4 because I wanted a present for Mr. Tena. I put it in the refrigerator, and by Monday it was all still there, so...I started drinking it. Today he wanted one, but they were all gone. Now I can replace them.
Belton Armadillo - Are you in Belton, Texas?
That Mr. Tena must be wiped if he goes by your name and let's you drink all of the soda pop.
BTW, does everyone call it "soda" now days. Growing up in Utah, we always called it "pop" or "soda pop," but in WA and DC everyone called it "soda."
Of course, in rural N. Utah, we called movie theatres, "picture shows" too,
"Dublin: The Dr. Pepper Capital of Erath County"
If you brew it, they will come.
I remember the Dr. Pepper in the glass bottles, with the clock face on it (analog, of course--there was no other kind, in my childhood, by cracky). The hands pointed to several different hours. I suspect that some shady marketing plan encouraged customers to imbibe a Dr. Pepper a those hours.
p-boy - I have come to believe, via informal survey, that "pop" is a west-of-the-Rockies term.
I grew up in N. Illinois, and it was "pop". It took me a long time to lose that after moving to California in 1980. Now it's "soda" and that sorta pisses me off. I like it when I slip back to "pop" time. Soda was that stuff (club soda) that the adults sometimes mixed with Scotch, unless they were my Dad, and then it was two fingers, straight up, multiple times.
Mud in your eye.
Now it's "soda" and that sorta pisses me off. I like it when I slip back to "pop" time.
I feel the same way.
Gen. J.C. Christian - No, he's not wiped. I got a black eye. He's a good christian husband.
Gen. Christian - He attends the Church of the Fairway every Sunday.
Keith Boykin asks: Where are all the black gay men?
Also check out the National Black Justice Coalition.
Like many heterosexual couples, many gay couples share deep bonds of love, some so strong they've persevered years of discrimination for their choice to co-habitate with and date one another. Just as it isn't fair to discriminate against someone for their skin color, heritage or religious beliefs, it isn't fair to discriminate against someone for their sexual orientation. Shouldn't gay couples be allowed to enjoy the benefits and happiness of marriage, too?
Awwwwww.....
Donna - God, we could be sisters. My dad stood over the sink with the bottle of Cutty Sark in one hand and a glass in the other. He'd down a glass of scotch, turn on the tap, get water for a chaser over and over and over again. Amazing endurance.
. . . can we have a few hundred more posts on gay marriage?
Snippy, ain't ya? But as the FMA has about as much chance of passing as the four or so other (Calpundit had a list: abortion, flag-burning, balanced budget (Ha!), and something that excapes me at the moment), you're right--why are we making a fuss about this one?
(I sincerely wish the happy couples well. However, as one of those embittered divorcees you hear about, on a certain level my reaction to the idea that anyone wants to get married is still: "Are you crazy?". )
George W. Bush isn't going to have a presidential library. Are you kidding? After they've shredded or burned all of the incriminating documents, there won't be enough left to fill a modest three-ring binder.
Jacuma
Karen Hughes can always make up a bunch of stuff.
Here's a guy who said he even tried The Wall Street Journal to find out why he should be against gays being married. They didn't convince him. Quite a last paragraph.
Here's a guy who said he even tried The Wall Street Journal to find out why he should be against gays being married. They didn't convince him. Quite a last paragraph.
Wow. My local news (a FOX channel) just reported a rumor that OBL has been captured. They quoted a source as saying Bush was holding him for election year propaganda and that Rummy's recent trip there was related.
If they really have him, the adrenalin rush will be a trickle by the time the Bushies loudly trumpet the news.
How strange that all these rumors are flying and being reported now.
Hehehe.. I thought so too, about the twin daughters of different mothers thing, Tena. Makes me smile and laugh a lot. That generation, our folks. I have a book to write about it.
I'll go you one better ... not better. Weirder. There was this family thing -- dad and his brother Dave from when they were in their twenties and hootin' and hollarin'. They invented, adopted this phrase: a little steronitus with the ming. It was having a beer and shot, or having a beer AND a glass of wine. It became part of my sisters's and my lexicon. "I'm having a little steronitus with the ming". I know this means nothing to anybody, but I love how families develop their own private idiomatic language. That and all the private language that goes along with growing up with hard drinkers. LOL.
I asked dad a few years ago, hadn't asked before, where the phrase came from. My uncle was still alive then. Dad said it had to do with some bar in Chicago they used to hang out at. Ask him. I never got to, but got to be executrix of his estate when he died in 2002. I loved my uncle Dave. Guitar playin', Johnny Cash-loving Montana hillbilly, WWII vet... and fellow conspiracist.
Sorry for the long OT, but it really DOES go with the pop and soda question. Really. It does.
Sorry for the long OT, but it really DOES go with the pop and soda question. Really. It does.
Donna
My dad always called them a "soda water." But I always called them all by the one brand name "coke."
Are American gayness levels related to cattle hormones? As you know, US beef is illegal everywhere else, and considered to be lethally poisonous. I was speaking to a guy in the meat industry who told me that if you eat too much of it your genitals can shrivel up or change shape, which is bad news in any language. Or you might develop breasts.
In South America the cows eat nothing but grass. And the men down there seem to be awfully butch, always shouting at women and having fist-fights. A coincidence? Surely not.
I throw it in for debate.
Coke. Hehe. A rose by any other name, eh?
Is anyone else noticing how 'the' point of this debate is not being discussed?
Nobody is talking about how homosexuals exist in this country.
Even now, I can skim over to the local christian broadcasting channel and watch any number of religious groups, 700 club, Falwell, etc, talk about homosexuality like it's a lifestyle choice brought down by any combination of the following:
1. Lack of stronge christian role model in the house.
2. Embracing of leftist, liberal, or communist rhetoric.
3. Depression brought on by exposure to satanic rock music, rap, etc
4. Exposure to loose sexual morals, including placing importance on foreplay and anal sex.
But more than anything else they make damned sure to emphasize that being gay is a choice people make, not something they are born to.
They have refused to accept that this is a biological issue, and not a lifestyle choice.
They have used gay-sex amongst non-gay prison inmates as proof that this is something people choose due to extreme mental anguish(life outside of christ)
And so far I have seen nobody discuss this side of the issue.
MYOB'
.
mw, Mary Ann Glendon is a Learned Hand Professor of Law at Harvard, and her arguments were pathetically unconvincing. Is that why she doesn't practice law?
I pity her students.
Coke. Hehe. A rose by any other name, eh?
Donna
I couldn't be the only one who calls them all a coke. ha ha Mabye that's why people in other parts of the country have looked sorta funny after I suggestd, "Hey, let's go get a coke."
Real brand loyalty there they must have thought.
Huh... surprising that one of the main architects of our Constitution would look so unfavorably upon the FMA. Yep. Shocking.
That Mr. Tena must be wiped if he goes by your name and let's you drink all of the soda pop.
Gen. JC Christian, Patriot
Catching up on this thread late while I wait for comp'ny...
BWA-hahahaha!
Things go better with coke. 
We're just waiting for it to come 'round on the guitar...
MYOB,
Many of us have been talking and talking about this, on subject and with fervor. I got a bit silly just recently, but I'm still there with those who think and say that the US government, if it wants to still consider itself the defender of "liberty" (haha), MUST support marriage for all those human beings living in the US ... hetero, gay, lesbian, and bi, and all the others on the continuum.
Otherwise it's knitting needles, torches and pitchforks. It will probably end up there for the multiplicity of other reasons why people revolt ... but at least for now, for that.
Dr. Pepper is no longer made with Imperial Sugar.
Now made with Hegemonic Sugar. They tell you it tastes the same, but, to me, I just get a bad taste in my mouth and a queasy stomach.
That and all the private language that goes along with growing up with hard drinkers. LOL.
No damn wonder I'm so comfy here. We still use the word "belignant," which, near as my sisters and I could figure, was a portmanteau of "belligerent" and "malignant." I would wake up in the morning with parties still going on, and some drunk would amble in and say, "Ah. Funny-papers. You read the girl parts and I'll read the boy parts." I once got blasted first thing in the morning by getting up, pouring a large OJ and downing it, only to find it was pre-mixed screwdrivers from the night before.
Durn, my company's here and he WILL not understand me sitting here posting all night.
I was raised by a hard drinker too.
"The boy is father to the man."
Who cares if it's a lifestyle choice? It's a perfectly valid lifestyle choice. I mean, nowadays, you'd be hard-pressed to find a gay or lesbian person who doesn't experience their sexual orientation as beyond will and immutable, but I know bisexual people who choose one gender or the other to pursue, and in ye olde days of feminism there were people who chose to be "political lesbians." If people want to be gay they have a right to choose to be gay, just like they have a right to be a Southern Baptist or go to Baylor or drink Dr. Pepper.
I really hate to get into the whole "biological" question because to me it first of all seems like bad science, and I have no interest in medicalizing it anyway, and it really doesn't matter why people are gay--they still deserve rights.
What does seem worth answering to me is the idea that being gay is sociological evidence of an unhappy environment, and there's really no evidence of that. What you have to understand about that attitude is that they are wrestling with something very profound: the contradiction between "God is good" and "God condemns this wide-spread and victimless behavior."
For God to be truly good, he must be condemning the behavior for a reason, so homosexuality must either be harmful to people or the result of harm to people. If it really is harmless and non-voluntary, then God seems to be being cruel or at least capricious, and their heads explode.
Silleigh,
Yep. I never had the OJ experience (I don't mean the televised trial), but beer in the basement around the pool table in my teen was the great consternation and great fun of my teens and that of ALL my friends who dearly loved my congenial, weird Dad.
Have fun with your company, and come back soon. You know where to find us.
Mary always went around Nazareth, the boy Jesus at her heels. Daily she would pass people saying "Bless the Lord, God is good."
She would just look down and mumble, "damn deadbeat dad."
Sorry, Melissa. Biological influences are being discovered slowly. Check out "The Puzzle"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obido...=glance&
s=books
Part of the problem is just getting funding for these studies. People on both sides are sometimes apprehensive about what they may find.
Environmental also involved: No stats, but I've known gay men who were raped by their fathers. My wife told me about a five-year-old at her school yesterday.
"Sanctity of Marriage"
Nature and Nurture. Combines in ways still trying to figure out.
cheney_usa,
Are we all of an age, or what? I wonder about that. I only know that growing up with my dad's family (the flamboyant types) was some of the most trying, painful and most fun and enlightening years of my life. We used to call our house: The Land of the Low-Flyin' Crazies
My dad doesn't drink much anymore. He's 76, and still kickin' ... AND has survived his at times reckless life. He also did much. Had his own manufacturing business. He was the creative, playful parent. Made my mother, me and my sisters nuts. But, I wouldn't change too much of what happened. A bit. Not much.
boy is father to the man: me.
I got crazy to spare.
re: Fox News reporting capture of OBL:
bah. I expect there will be more of the same this fall, if they haven't caught him outright and have him in a box just waiting for the October Surprise.
Stranger, I have the same problem. I find that opening the page in a new tab usually allows me to open the comments. Go figure.
cheney_usa: boy is father to the man: me. I got crazy to spare.
You and me both, dearheart. The trick, of course, is getting it to work for you.
Cheney_USA, you KNOW you're not supposed to post long URLs!
You KNOW they break Haloscan and make it very difficult for the rest of us to read the comments.
Embedding a long URL is VERY EASY , you have no excuse for not embedding a long URL or for not using tinyurl.com.
Shame on you!
I lived in Moffat and went to school in Belton (which are really the Tigers, not the Armadillos--that is a King of the Hill ref). I learned to two-step at the Academy VFW.
You have to be a little crazy these days to stay sane.
Here are two 'letters to the editor' printed locally today. I removed their names:
Letters
Posted on February 28, 2004
Preserve marriage as God intended it to be
Bossier City
In the Garden of Eden, God told his first man and woman to be fruitful, multiply and replenish the Earth. I seriously doubt that anyone has questioned since that marriage is a civil union between a man and woman for the purpose of producing and raising children.
Alan Caruba said, "For as long as there has been human civilization, all cultures, all peoples, have recognized marriage as specific to the opposite genders mating for the purpose of establishing a family. It is, simply put, the linchpin of society."
Why do we find ourselves in the position of having to defend this? Between the men and women who shack up, as we used to call it, and the homosexuals who want a piece of the marriage benefits from the government, the world is being turned upside down. Michael Josephson said, "If we keep treating our most important values as meaningless relics, that's exactly what they'll become."
Democrats fail to offer reasonable solutions
Shreveport
I have been following the Democratic presidential wannabes and have concluded that their message is this: "Blah, blah, blah, blah." It is President George W. Bush this and Bush that, with no answers or solutions of any kind other than crawling on our knees to the United Nations and taxing the American people unconscious. This classless party is beyond bankrupt.
When Bush was elected he promised to change the tone in Washington and to try and work with the Democrats. He has until recently kept his promise to no avail. The liberals don't want to work in a civilized manner with the president; they want to hate him.
I'm sorry the president has to take the gloves off. I wish he wouldn't have to show the American people who and what he is: a decent and God-fearing man who is trying to work with the other side, and a leader who has terrorists worried and on the run. There have not been any attacks on U.S. soil since 9-11. You can't protect America any better than that.
Bush's tax cuts are reviving the economy, much to the liberals' dismay. For political reasons only, the liberals want a weak economy, want terrorists to have the upper hand, and are not worried about where the weapons of mass destruction are that all the world knew Saddam Hussein had, only that they have not been found.
Liberals think this country's national security is a cheap card game. Imagine that. I got news for the liberals: The American people are not stupid.
I just moved to the Waco area from Alaska because my wife is a doctor and matched to a family practice residency program here. Although I was expecting some sort of wingnut wasteland, it's pretty much just a normal mid-sized city.
Baylor is a pretty big university with a lot of money judging by all the new construction around campus. It looks more like an Ambercrombe & Fitch catalog than some sort of religious backwater. I think a lot of rich kids from Dallas get sent there so they'll hopefully stay out of trouble.
Although Central Texas is quite Republican, Waco is fairly diverse with large black and Hispanic populations and has sent Chet Edwards, a Democrat to Congress for the past 14 years. That's right. Bush's home Congressional district is currently represented by a Democrat. In fact, part of the recent Texas restricting fiasco masterminded by Delay was to gerrymander Edwards out of his seat. How did they attempt to do it? By pulling the largest Army base in the country, Ft. Hood, and neighboring Kileen out of Edwards district and replacing it with more rural backwater areas. Despite this Edwards is still running for reelection and still stands a chance of retaking this gerrymandered district based on the Democratic vote in Waco itself.
As for the student paper? Doesn't surprise me a bit. What's the point of college anyway if you can't tweak the noses of your elders. Baylor students are no different than any other. In fact, the same culture war has been raging at Baylor that Rove wants to ignite around the rest of the country.
He needs a course on "Writing 101". But otherwise it was interesting.
"Pop" was my father. Those of us out west called our dads "Pop". It was short for Papa. If you wanted a drink, it was by name - you had a coke, or a 7up or gingerale. But Pop was my father.
He needs a course on "Writing 101". But otherwise it was interesting.
PICHIFLAY
That was after the opionion page editor cleaned his letter up, I'm sure. Just imagine how it orginally read.
ha ha Look at me. I can't even spell opinion.
opinyun
I used to live in Texas and this school is probably to the right of A & M., so forget hell, Heaven hath indeed bursts its gates wide open.
Huh, Belton Armadillo... I went to THS, but did elementary in Academy. My mom let me switch to Temple in middle school when she started teaching there. Thank God.
Jacuna: I live right outside DC now.
That was after the opionion page editor cleaned his letter up, I'm sure. Just imagine how it orginally read.
opionion page editor
Freudian slip Mars?
wilfred: A&M always seemed to have a higher degree of annoying machismo, though.
Don't be too hard on yourself Mars. Remember we've got a prezident!
I have a feeling if the Baylor kids get into trouble for doing this, it'll be from Rush's listeners and the like, rather than from the actual community there.
A.
I got news for the liberals: The American people are not stupid.
Proof once again that republicans are completely incapable of irony...
I don't care about the biological impact because if there ever is a gene found, the fundies and the Nazis will just work to eliminate that gene through genetics. They will say it's faulty and lie that Jesus wants it removed.
50% of America belives homosexuality is a choice. That's due to religious rhetoric and also due to ex-gays (which are now funded by the governments, BTW, as www.exgaywatch.com mentions). That is going to increase more over the next few years.
I don't care about the biological impact because if there ever is a gene found, the fundies and the Nazis will just work to eliminate that gene through genetics. They will say it's faulty and lie that Jesus wants it removed.
50% of America belives homosexuality is a choice. That's due to religious rhetoric and also due to ex-gays (which are now funded by the governments, BTW, as www.exgaywatch.com mentions). That is going to increase more over the next few years.
TORTURE LOU DOBBS
I am 58, so to remember my parents is to remember people scared by the depression and the struggle to recover. Many stories they would tell of the time prior to WWII of living 3 couples to an apartment, and no money for food.
and so once they made a place for themselves after the war, the house had to be perfect and no dirt was allowed, but once a month my father would set up his homemade "bar" over the laundry tubs and the party would start. All of my mothers family (12 grown kids each with families of their own) would come kids in tow. We kids would hide upstairs knowing everyone would be spending the night and the cops would come at least once.
Hard living, hard working, good people.
Coke/pepsi tastes different in Mexico vs. here... It's all sugarpiss-water as far as I'm concerned, but I noticed the difference when I moved to the US years ago... "same formula, world wide" and and all that. Not. I always figured it was the sweetener that was different. Still dont know (or care) what is used where, but I do know this: A Cuba libre/rum n' coke made with Myers rum and mexican cola is as great as the usual bacardi and us cola sucks.... Truly great stuff.... Gotta squeeze a lime in there, natch, truly transcendental experience. BUT, Gotta be Myers, gotta be Messican Cola, Thirsty now , dammit, Tsekub Baloyan lives!!!! cheers!
Ralph Nader is the ONLY candidate who supports gay marriage.
Freudian slip Mars?
Nameless for Now
That's right.
Ralph Nader is the ONLY candidate who supports gay marriage.
Yeeaahaw
Well that does it for me. He's got my vote.
Norteamericanos temen la vagina. No cerrar los ojos. Deberias comer más coño. No hay que cerrarse a nada sin probarlo primero.
OT:
Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry on Saturday criticized President Bush's replacement of two dissenting members of a bioethics panel that advises him on such issues as cloning and stem cell research.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/
news...kerry_bioethics
Bush appiontees:
Benjamin Carson = Could be OK
Peter Lawler, Diana Schaub = american enterprise
Peter Lawler:
Clark-Hillary 2004?
A winning ticket.
...
Some facts that are probably facts: All the Democratic candidates except Dean and Clark are stillborn. They will be wiped off the map by crushing defeats in Iowa and New Hampshire. Dean is the candidate of the most-articulate faction in the party — the upper middle-class, bourgeois-bohemian (bobo) crowd.
..
http://www.nationalreview.com/
co...awler091803.asp
Diana Schaub:
So, to anyone interested in these issues, I strongly recommend Star Trek, the original series, of course, not any of the second-rate sequels. Given the scientific mission of the U.S.S. Enterprise ("to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations¾to boldly go where no man has gone before"), you might expect that the show would be gung-ho for the conquest of nature, including pushing the envelope of our human nature. In fact, however, episodes of Star Trek repeatedly confirm the needfulness of human limitations and, indeed, revel in the self-imposed acceptance of those limitations.
...
My years watching Star Trek have left me receptive to the view that mortality is, if not precisely a good thing, then at least the necessary foundation of other very good things, and that there is something misguided about the attempt to overcome mortality.
http://www.aei.org/events/filter.../
transcript.asp
Sr. Hadenough,
¿Estás loco? ¡Vaya una tontería!
My nine year old has outgrown his copy of The Very Hungry Caterpillar and may be willing to donate it to the G.W. Bush Preznitential Library.
"No, Dad. Bush is evil. He's not getting my books."
A couple of things:
Imperial Sugar closed the refinery that supplied Dr. Pepper with the cane sugar use in the Original Formula (which is a closely guarded secret)
If I want a soda, I ask for a coke. Even if I want a Root Beer, Ginger Ale, etc. It's a Texas/Louisiana thing.
Kent,
Waco is not Central Texas. You've got to come a bit south. If you think Waco is a liberal oasis in the middle a sea of Republicans, then don't come to Austin. Each city has its area where the Liberals congregate (only in Texas would that be appropriate), Austin OTOH is the opposite.
Star Trek took on some very controversial issues for the time. That is why it is still popular (for the most part).
I have Southern conservative Protestant relatives. They all think they're against homosexuality. But then oldest and most fervent Christian friend gets sued for divorce by his wife 'cause she found out about his secret gay love life after 40+ years of marriage. I won't name the town because it happens all over the conservative South. No it ain't the gov of Texas, either.
My mother's cousin was the president of a Baptist college somewhere in the South. He used to stay overnight at our house every once in a while, and he always brought his own vodka 'cause we rarely had any, or enough for him. He bragged - BRAGGED - to me when I was fourteen about how he'd expel a student if he caught him/her with a beer on campus, because Southern Baptists believe in drinking in secret. He claimed all those deacons just like to close the door to the boardroom and get stinking drunk. I can only imagine he talked like this to me because he was drunk and he knew I was being raised a godless secular humanist.
It's the same with sex of any sort. They're a pack of hypocrites.
David (Austin Tx),
If I were a panelist for a book discussion focusing on "Beyond Therapy: Biotechnology and the Pursuit of Happiness" star trek is the first thing that would come to my mind to. Some times I get star trek and star wars mixed. I hate when that happens.
Found a good Lincoln, also found some disturbing Lincoln quotes:
"I am not a Know-Nothing. That is certain. How could I be? How can any one who abhors the oppression of negroes, be in favor of degrading classes of white people? Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except Negroes." When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except Negroes and foreigners and Catholics." When it comes to this, I shall prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty - to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure and without the base alloy of hypocrisy."
The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Letter to Joshua F. Speed" (August 24, 1855), p. 323.
David (Austin, TX): Waco not Central Texas? I grew up in Temple being told I lived in Central Texas. Austin was part of Central Texas, but San Antonio was not. Central Texas, for Temple and Waco residents, extends from the I-35 split (Hillsboro) to about San Marcos. There are two large areas of tacky outlet malls with monsterous parking lots bounding this set. One at Exit 368 on I-35, one at Exit 199. This 169 mile stretch has its center between mile markers 283 and 284, which neatly enclose the overly cute Village of Salado, which is filled with darling little boutiques with not nearly enough parking. The repeated thesis at the ends with this antithesis in the center proves the sythesis and completeness of this set I, Chet Edwards and his rightful constituents call "Central Texas."
Do you Austinites routinely confuse "Hill Country" with "Central Texas"? They are slightly overlapping sets, but definitely only slightly.
Chris Tucker, sorry. I was typing so fast that relativity shrunk the length of the url from my position.
Shorter urls are just aroung the corner.
Jon, still alot of research. One theory backed by data, is that the fluid in the womb for a second child is slightly different and that's why the second son is more likely to be gay.
Genes are very strange. They interact usually with 2 or 3 other genes and dependent on the cell environment (temp, pH, etc) express slightly differently.
That's why I have had to destroy all the monstrosities I have created in my basement lab, except the one that got away, limping down the street, "Brains, brains...."
Limped right past GWB.
I tried to find the article, but some bozo "sculptor artist" built a park near Tidewater Virginia with these HUGE busts of all 43 Presidents.
"I got the idea when I saw Mount Rushmore." Artistic genius, such vision, such ...
Now, supposedly he is creating a 28 story (300 foot) tall cowboy statue around San Marcos and I35.
I'm evacuating the state.
Landover Baptist Church flyer for The Passion
Best. Movie. Review. Ever:
Betty Bowers reviews The Passion
Wow, Art Bell is for gay marriage now. He just announced it on his program. That's huge.
Whoa, Art's doing his show again?
Cool beans.
Whoa, Art's doing his show again?
Cool beans.
Juan Hashcrops
Yeah, he's back but only on the weekends.
He has a great guest on after the first hour talking about, according to his website , "One of the world’s leading physicists, Brian Greene takes us on a grand tour of the universe in order to make us look at reality in a completely different way."
¿Quién es Art Bell? ¿Puedes ser más concreto?
Who is Art Bell? After more concreto Que sinificas concreto ?
Jeez, I'm having some major keyboarding issues tonight. I can't even spell in Spanish. significas
somehow I don't think that the Art Bell endorsement for gay marriage is going to change any minds...
somehow I don't think that the Art Bell endorsement for gay marriage is going to change any minds...
renato
He's getting hammered by the winger trolls calling in who listen to his late night radio program right now. His program is the only AM radio show that those from both sides of the political debate listen to. One old bitch just called in now.
No me vengas ahora con sandeces. ¡Habla Don Deneño!
Art Bell has a son who was involved in a sex scandal with a male high school teacher. As I recall, the teacher went to jail because the Bell kid was barely under age (that doesn't excuse the teacher in my opinion). One of the teacher's defenses was that the relationship was consentual, although Bell successfully sued a former FBI agent for saying that on another radio show.
Bell is a viscous guy. I use to have a web site that parodied him. He sent me quite a few nasty emails and had his lawyers threaten one of my ISPs. He even went so far as to accuse me on usenet of stalking him by sending emails asking him for sex. That's when I threatened to sue him. He replied by posting to usenet, saying that his libel was no worse than the picture of him I had on my website--he was standing next to a satellite dish with the words "XXX Sheepvision" printed on it. I guess he couldn't figure out how that was different from calling a non-celebrity a gay stalker.
No me vengas ahora con sandeces. ¡Habla Don Deneño!
Don Defeño
I tried talking to you.
Oh, and it is too late for most who post here. They're asleep.
Sr. Rover,
¿Qué te pasa? Hablo inglés hasta cierto punto. No hablamos el mismo idioma.
Trabajando esta noche. Perdon, me Espanol muy mal. "We're not talking the "mismo idioma ?
No Intiendo "mismo idioma."
Ralph Nader is the ONLY candidate who supports gay marriage. -- Yeeaahaw
Sure, he is. If you overlook Kucinich and Sharpton.
Cheney_usa, give up on the theorizing about why gays are gay! Some are born gay, some achieve gayness,
and some have gayness thrust upon them.
Any port in a storm, as stories of seamen and prisoners attest. I personally know gays who went straight and straights who went gay. We vertebrates are polymorphously perverse. At some point this argument resembles disputes over race and intelligence and other concepts as vaguely defined as sexuality.
Most gays assert that they were born the way they are, and it's pointless to dispute it. I'd rather hear what fraction of the population they represent. The numbers I've seen are on the order of 3-5%, and that isn't inconsistent with my tally of acquaintances and casual observation in my very gay-friendly beachside community.
Me Espanol muy mal donde muchas anos despues universidad.
Intienda?
Yo conosco/sabo te no esta portugessa.
Sr. Rover,
¿Entintes lo que te quiro decir?--Idomático?
Olivido verbos "decir."
Y tengo mucha sueno.
Olvido
Mars - he's incoherent. Genug. Dostachno.
Sr. Rover,
No hablo portugués. ¿Y eso qué tiene que ver?
Sr. Rover,
No hablo portugués. ¿Y eso qué tiene que ver?
Don Defeño
Trabajando muchas en la semana y fin semana.
las
Bad Jim: So, you agree with me then. It is mostly natural. I think it is important to find some biological component to it, since we have people saying it is only a choice.
3% is the number I read last.
But you busted me. I did sound like "You're either with us, or with the sodomites."
I am currently working on a biological theory for people who like NASCAR. No grey area there.
later.
Mars - he's incoherent. Genug. Dostachno.
bad Jim
Yeah, I told him my Spanish wasn't the best but he's not making it easy on me.
But "decir" isn't a difficult verb but I can't remember it right now. I've been up for over 24 hours and I have another 5 hours left before I get off from work. I'm sure I'll remember it later. If I was at home, I could look it up.
Sr. Rover,
¡Cuéntaselo a tu abuela! ¡Estás gastando saliva!
Abuela es morte. No moleste me!
He just insulted my grandmother--go figure.
Err, me thinks Don Defeño is a troll-o.
Cheney (it pains me to type that name), I'm too familiar with jokes involving trees with holes about the right size to get invested in why people do what they do. Yeah, I do basically agree with you.
I'm more of a splitter than a lumper. We need more races and perhaps more sexualities. I'm tired of the issue of what is the (one) cause of X, for any X. We're humans, we're not simple.
Ambiguity is the blanket within which I swaddle myself when I head dreamwards.
Mars: attention sink = troll
Go to this website and you will see what i am refering too
www.witnessreport.com
Sr. Rover,
Perdone. Me he vuelto a equivocar. Fue una tontería una estupidez. No hablo inglés muy bien.
Well, he started out insisting someone talk to him. Then he got insulting. Now he's saying he was stupid and his english isn't very good.
I don't recall him writing any English, though.
ha ha But now he knows we're talking about him.
Tonight's vote for oddest spam subject line: "Get Your Hello Kitty Storage Box".
Right. Make mine lime green.
Spirit, someone explained to me once that this was a common usenet ploy, the constant wheedling for further explanation, attention, assistance. Nerds, wimps, liberals that we are, we tend to accomodate such requests.
It's not always good to be nice.
Speak English! This is Murka!
Nortay Murka!
BWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Sr. Rover,
No me malinterpretes. No insulto. Es difícil la lengua española. Aprender, te va a costar trabajo.
Now he's saying he misinterpreted. But he wasn't insulting. Espanol is a difficult language. To learn, I must go to somplace and work at it.
Mars, it may be that my Spanish (4 years of HS in SoCA) is better than yours, and I would strongly suggest that you step away from the stalker.
Can you spell B.S.?
Sr. Rover,
No me malinterpretes. No insulto. Es difícil la lengua española. Aprender, te va a costar trabajo.
Don Defeño
Si, Intiendo sin "coastar."
Mars, it may be that my Spanish (4 years of HS in SoCA) is better than yours, and I would strongly suggest that you step away from the stalker.
Yeah, I know he's BSing but you're being a little paranoid, jim.
And now you're freaking me out, too.
But anyway, Art Bell didn't have to say what he said to about 17 million listeners. Matter of fact, it would only hurt him. I'm sure he's gotten a lot of hate email for it.
People can send a 'thank you' email to artbell@aol.com or artbell@mindspring.com
Sr. Rover,
¡Lo sabía! Es la historia de siempre.
¡Hacer caso omiso de mexicanos!
Damn, I'm so beat, my dick's in the dirt this morning. I get off from here in about 3 hours and I'm going home and sleep for about 10 hours.
Huye de toda forma y de toda lenguaje
que no vaya en accordes con el ritmo latente
de la vida profunda, y adora intensamente
la vida, y que la vida comprende tu homenaje.
Chinga tu madre, puta!
Sorry. I just had a Hemingway moment.
Just a poem I learned in high school, thirty-some years ago. I defy anyone to explain what, exactly, is "el ritmo latente de la vida profunda." I'm generally content to settle for espresso in the morning and wine at night.
Sr. Jim,
¿Es español? Amigo mío, Ud. habla estupendamente bien. Nadie nace enseñado.
Apart from that, it's pretty good. It's sort of like:
Throw out all conceptual baggage
that doesn't run with the undercurrent of life, and adore life intensely, and let life know you love it.
Mostly works for me.
Adorably wootish and definitely booby-full.
Jim, he like's the way usted talks.
My PC's settings at home are outta wack for a couple more days and I can't access my ISP even if I wasn't too tired to stay up for awhile to figure out whatzup.
I need to wrap things up here.
Hasta luego...
Hasta el juego.
Mañana, todos.
Venceremos.
Seid umschlungen, Millionen.
Diesem Küss der ganzen Welt
Looks like < blockquote > is functional, yet experimental.
I'm sure I closed my tags. So there.
Bear with me:
Deine Zauber bindet wieder
was die Mode streng geteilt
alle menschen werden Brüder
wo dein sanfter Flugel weilt
3rd line was "code". Probably didn't do anything. The verse is Schiller.
Allow me once again to try any reader's patience. We will attempt blockquotes and then all other text enhancements:
Marriage is like an umbrella:
At worst, you can always take a taxi.
< blockquote > still screws things up. Oh, well. Personally, I'm fond of < a > blue text < /a > for its own sake. I'm also fond of a big yellow 
Defeño:
bueno y vos que te crees? Hartate un barco lleno de mierda pendejo. Si tenes pedos avisame ya que te puedo hacer bonito maje.
Now that I'm looking at the ratty, frayed end of this thread, I'm reminded that I never get laid, and always wonder why.
**Of course, real aficianados remember the "hot Dr. Pepper" campaign of our childhoods.**
Tastes like prune juice to me. A friend once suggested that that was Dr. P's flavor and it's seemed like it ever since.
How 'bout the "He's a pepper. I'm a pepper. You're a pepper. She's a pepper. Be a pepper..." (Or something like that. Oh, man. Terrible. Ha!)
Northeastern DP tastes off to me. My theory: Pepsi is vile. Pepsi is the bottler for DP up here. Ergo, they screw DP up.
Now that I'm looking at the ratty, frayed end of this thread, I'm reminded that I never get laid, and always wonder why.
bad Jim
If it makes you feel any better Jim, I'd have sex with you.....
I am currently working on a biological theory for people who like NASCAR.
How about that gene for people who like fundo Christianity??
We don't neead a "gay gene", if there was one, which I doubt. It's irrelevant whether or not it's chosen or innate or whatever combination of nature-nurture, any more than heterosexuality is chosen or innate/nature-nurture.
Rights is rights is rights. That is the bottom line.
The University seems to be fightibe back against the editorial board, and will probably be removing them soon. http://pr.baylor.edu/story.php?id=4981
Statement From President Robert B. Sloan Jr. Regarding Baylor Lariat Editorial On Gay Marriage
March 01, 2004
Baylor University President Robert B. Sloan Jr. released the following statement today, regarding a Feb. 27 editorial in The Lariat, Baylor's student newspaper, on gay marriage:
Baylor University’s student newspaper, the Baylor Lariat, last Friday published an editorial supporting the City of San Francisco’s lawsuit against the State of California to declare unconstitutional sections of the California Family Code defining marriage as a union of a man and woman. By a 5-2 vote, the student editorial board opined that, taking into account equal protection under the law, gay couples should be granted the same equal rights to legal marriage as heterosexual couples.
It is important for Baylor constituents to know that this position held by five students does not reflect the views of the administration, faculty, staff, Board of Regents or Student Publications Board, which oversees the Lariat. Nor do I believe this stance on gay marriage is shared by the vast majority of Baylor’s 14,000 students and 100,000 alumni.
We have already heard from a number of students, alumni and parents who are, as am I, justifiably outraged over this editorial. Espousing in a Baylor publication a view that is so out of touch with traditional Christian teachings is not only unwelcome, it comes dangerously close to violating University policy, as published in the Student Handbook, prohibiting the advocacy of any understandings of sexuality that are contrary to biblical teaching. The Student Publications Board will be addressing this matter with the Lariat staff as soon as possible.
In the meantime, I would like to assure Baylor constituents that, while we respect the right of students to hold and express divergent viewpoints, we do not support the use of publications such as the Lariat, which is published by the University, to advocate positions that undermine foundational Christian principles upon which this institution was founded and currently operates.
But if you read the Baylor editorial, they're speaking of the legal rights only.
In other words, they're about to get "Hammered" DeLay-style for something they specifically did not do.
--
i like boys
I am perplexed by your website. Considering the name it seems mightily uneschatological.
I am perplexed by your website. Considering the name it seems mightily uneschatological.
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