I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
they are liars, liars liars...
They only job they created was the job of "Guy who says that tax cuts create jobs, we have proof".
There never seems to be a shortage of those.
Isn't it time we had a real president?
Ed
Atrios, you're supposed to be looking at Janet Jackson's boob, or fretting over the Peteresen jury selection.
Hey, it's OK. They had Subway for lunch.
"Dr. Norquist! The bloodletting is not working! The patient is getting worse!"
"Then we haven't let enough blood! Bleed him some more!"
OT: Suckful has declared Tues 9 March "Make fun of Dr. Paul Cameron" Day
Steadily Lying and Misleadership at All Time!
Strap on your hard hats and put on your steel-toed boots, boys, we're gonna manufacture some Big Macs the American way.
mmmm, magic tax cuts... makes me think of Jack and the Beanstalk.
I understand that Halliburton is hiring.
Condi was worried about a smoking gun turning into a mushroom cloud - I'd say it has, but its the Bush Regime going up in smoke because of its own stupidity. You know that Bush really believed all that crap about jobs - he had to have or he would not have put his "reputation" on the line by making the prediction. Somewhere a group of wealthy Repugnicans are laughing their assess off as they file their tax returns.
There was this crazy guy who was running for President who had this insane idea that it was OK to give big tax cuts to rich people, but ONLY if they hired someone.
Whatever happened to that guy? Fesley Bark? Was that his name?
Shocked! Shocked, I tell you!
Which comedian said that if Bush keeps this up, eventually none of us will have to work?
That was funny, but not ha-ha funny.
BTW, did people hear about the death of Marlin Maddoux?
I came to this thread to read a cogent wingnut response to your inflammatory post, atrios.
Well, where is it?
A little league team just came in and they want 25 orders of McNuggets. Let's saddle up and show them what American heavy industry is all about.
Fuzzy Math Redux.
If not for the tax cuts there would be even fewer jobs!!!!
You s.hould count only private industry jobs, also. The tax cuts were supposed to add 306k private industry jobs. The grand old party of bloated government is inflating your jobs added figure.
I came to this thread to read a cogent wingnut response to your inflammatory post, atrios.
Well, where is it?
Things are terrific, the media isn't reporting it and I just don't understand why.
I know this is off-topic, but I just gotta spread the word, people.
"God told me to smite him. And I smote him."
--George W. Bush, speaking about Saddam Hussein to Mahmoud Abbas, in 2003
Ashcroft Hospitalized With Pancreatitis
ha ha
Later,
Soli,
Are you saying that if homeland security and other gov jobs are taken out, it looks significantly worse? Man. I'd like to see those numbers!
Even if we were to assume that Kerry's policies would not have done any better with jobs, at least we would not have 1/2 a trillion dollar debt.
Steady Leadership in times of change:
Steadily Outsourcing Jobs
Steadily Evading the 9/11 Commission
Steadily Sending Soldiers to die over a pointless war
Greenspan says the jobs numbers can pop at any time now.
Any time now.
A conservative Republican friend of mine, a vp at a small bank, assured me months ago that the tax cuts would put money in people's pockets and the demand created when people spent the money would spur job growth.
I think the Republicans are really sweating.
Send John Ashcroft a get well card asking him how he'd like it if his significant other couldn't visit him in the hospital because their relationship wasn't legally recognized.
WAY OT-
WASHINGTON (AP) - First-term Rep. Rodney Alexander of Louisiana announced Friday he intends to remain a Democrat, ending a brief flirtation with Republicans eager for him to switch parties.
Is this guy pickin' a winner? I doubt his decision is based on principles.
This is a surprise to anyone?
And about that January job growth - well, let's just say someone overshot the mark again, for the umpteenth time:
Moreover, the job gains in January were revised to show a pickup of just 97,000 positions, down from the 112,000 first estimated a month ago.
Doesn't the term 'conservative' suggest a lot of things, including the way you make guesstimates...
Yes, but look at all the mercenaries they're hiring now in Iraq and how much they're making- up to $1000 a day!
Thanks to Lupin over at Billmon for the reference.
OT, The Onion is in fine form this week:
Al Franken Announces New Book Project: Ha Ha, Bush, Your Dog Is Dead
You guys are being to hard on Bush, don't you know those 2 million people are now self-employed. When I put my aluminum cans out for recycling now, someone picks them up before the city truck comes by. Hey, maybe he use to make $80k a year as a programmer, but now he is self-employed picking up cans. Their is another guy that wants to paint my house number on the curb, and another that can power wash my driveway. And don't forget the guys withs signs asking for money at every intersection, thats a job isn't it?
chris/tx:
ha ha
Later,
So, in other words, it would require an average increase of just slightly mroe than half a million jobs per month for the rest of the year to meet the goal.
Fat chance.
Al Franken Announces New Book Project: Ha Ha, Bush, Your Dog Is Dead
fat sam
Anyone read the Mother Jones article Franken wrote about his USO tour? He mentions that shortly after his mother died someone posted a review on Amazon to the effect of "See? When you write bad things about people God kills your mom."
slightly OT, but Krugman has hands-down the BLOTW (best line of the week):
Yesterday in The Wall Street Journal, a writer judiciously declared that "personal accounts alone won't cure Social Security's ills." I guess that's true; similarly, eating doughnuts alone won't cause you to lose weight.
shrill my ASS!
and NOW those job-creating, tax relaxed Rethug Rangers are gonna just go ahead and hold on to the booty they're raking in from BushCo's tax cut, so they can start to blame President Kerry for problems in the economy in 2005..."We'll fix THEIR wagon! Job creation be damned! Thanks W, think i'll go buy that boat now"
I've been reading and posting at this web site for probably well over a year, and I'm starting to get the distinct impression you people don't want to see George Bush remain in office.
"They said magic tax cuts would create jobs. They didn't."
Tsk, tsk, tsk.
This just isn't true.
That spare capital *is* creating jobs.
Just not here . . .
The bigger problem is that the positives are not really positives..
Increased productivity combined with a still rising GDP combined with a dead job market is very bad news. It means that there is no NEED for any further workers. Meaning that the chances of a rebound of the labour market...ever..are slim and none.
See, what a lot of people, especially conservatives don't get, is they don't get why companies hire.
There are two levels of employment. You have structural employment and you have non-structural.
Your structural employees are your managers, your office workers etc. You need them to run your business, generally speaking no matter the size. You rarely see cutbacks here.
Your non-structural workers are dependant on the amount of actual work that the company needs to do. In other words, they are needed to fufill a certain demand in order to make money.
Demand-side economics...
A lot of people completely miss that. They think that magically a company will develop a new product and start manafacturing it before they find out there is a market for that product. It doesn't happen that way. These things are means tested, given focus groups, the whole nine yards..and usually by those employed in the structure.
Then you take the idea of skyrocketing consumer debt, resulting in a lack of demand in the biggest consumer nation in the world, by far.
It's going to be ugly. It's not Bush's fault, per se. He just decided to do almost nothing about the problem. (Ok, so that does make it his fault. But I digress).
What needs to be done?
We need to take steps, through both public and private actions, to get people back to work and raise wages. Companies, if they want to avoid a global depression, need to bite the bullet. They need to stop the offshoring and realize where their actual bread and butter is.
As well, government needs to ease things on the middle class, through a payroll tax rebate, (Maybe raise the limit on payroll taxes to even it out. Sounds like a good idea) an increase in the minimum wage and more spending on basic infrastructure.
That's the problem. That's a rundown of the issues facing the economy right now. Would the average person have the attention span to listen to that?
Not really..
*sigh*
don't forget to go donate a penny via credit card to Bush's campaign!
It will cost them far more than a penny to process the donation, send you junk mail once you are on their list, and pay for the postage-paid return envelopes you send back to them stuffed full of paper!
How about a detailed set of descriptions of the Bush administration promises on the eve of their tax cuts and a follow-up look at what they actually produced from the period right after the promise until the dawn of the next promise. Can we get that please?
It hasn't been said yet in the responses so far, so i shall do the needful. A million jobs less? Fewer created? "WHATS THE DIFFERENCE???"
Joe B - You know, I have started to see the same thing, little by little I have seen some criticism of Bush at this site. People need to get a grip, wrap yourself in the flag, and get with the program.
Deficits matter. Ricardian Equivalence matters. Supply-side economics is Voodoo.
Steadily sinking ships in a sea of change...
The Bush Administration is pulling the same scam that Reagan did with his "supply-side economics". After Reagan's tax cuts, unemployment rose, but the scam still works. It's worked three times in this administration.
But let's not forget that the Clinton Administration laid the groundwork for outsourcing our jobs with NAFTA and the WTO agreements. That's right -- the Democrats stand with the Republicans on exporting our jobs!
A lot of people are automatically assuming that the Democrats are the antidote to the Republicans, when in fact, the Democrats are financed by the same corporate interests that finance the Republicans.
Kerry refuses to pull out of these corporate trade agreements. Doing so would anger his corporate contributors, while only saving jobs of people who are going to vote for him anyway.
That's what you get when you uncritically parrot the "anyone but Bush" slogan. You get someone who takes your vote for granted, so he concentrates on appealing to the corporations for more money.
I'm opting out of the corporate party "good cop/bad cop" scam. Unless Kerry starts sounding a lot like Dennis Kucinich, my vote is going to a party that represents citizens' interests: The Green Party.
don't forget to go donate a penny via credit card to Bush's campaign!
Fucking brilliant!
In receivership, time for a change.
From TBogg: A jobless recovery is like waterless rain.
I'm opting out of the corporate party "good cop/bad cop" scam. Unless Kerry starts sounding a lot like Dennis Kucinich, my vote is going to a party that represents citizens' interests: The Green Party.
Good riddance to stupid fucking idiots. Just don't take the rest of us over the cliff with your train wreck this time, OK, dickhead?
That fucking Krugman. He's the only guy that can write about Social Security policy and make me laugh my ass off (when I should be crying).
HOLD THE PRESSES: AP REPORTS MANUFACTURING HAD A HUGE REBOUND.
McDonald's Sales Make Huge Comeback
OAK BROOK, Ill. (AP) -- McDonald's Corp.'s sales jumped a whopping 22.6 percent in February over last year's numbers, the fast-food chain said Friday, extending a recovery that began last spring and sending its stock to a nearly two-year high.
Man, my pancreas is starting to hurt from all the laughter.
Alan8
You're absolutely right. Now get out.
I love these fine people here at Eschaton, but there's not a lot of openess to your theme. These folks are true believers.
Donate a penny on the credit card to Bush? I thought that was how the Department of Treasury worked?
Donate a penny, yeah, at 23.943% interest.
If only the Green Party could save us.
W pulled himself up by his spurs; so can everyone else. It's not easy to get as far as he did while depending solely on the reptilian part of the brain. Imagine how much further he can go when he masters readin' and writin'.
Bush's Economic Indicator: 2 New Jobs
http://tinyurl.com/ytu6x
What an idiot!
.
Hey Alan, we know what you are talking about. I agree with alot of what you say.
However, going with the Green Party is like those fighters in Liberia, Ivory Coast where they dressed up as women because the witch doctor told them the bullets will not hurt them.
I'd rather fight, live and win. Then fix.
Alan:In all fairness, speaking as a Green party member, things such as NAFTA and the WTO have very little to do with the current batch of off-shoring.
Such knowledge economy jobs, as they don't actually import/export anything, would get around any manafacturing based restriction. Either the programmers ship a gold copy where it is printed out in the states, or you have overseas technical support where it's only a phone call.
Furthermore, to say that both parties are equally as bad is somewhat deceptive. Obviously that is not the case. In case you havn't noticed, the party isn't just the politicians, at least not anymore.
Because there are more people plugged in to the system now, change will be coming...as long as we all don't cut and run because of "principles".
And btw, as far as I know, the Green party isn't running a candidate for president, and they run very few candidates for Senate/House. They are focusing on local elections that they can win...
Which to be honest, does us all a whole lot more good in...
I'm waiting for the Republicans to offshore vote counting. And the media to say, "THAT'S GREAT!"
Joe:The reason there's not much openess, is because it's insulting.
The fact is, these people here are fighting to change things from within, and you have some people trying to sabotage that.
Of course people would get upset...
As soon as the figures catch up and the lending for building dries up we're going to have a depression that makes Mr. Hoover's adjustment look normal. Things are going to be much worse, to start with the percentage of the population that has no skills is enormous. What the hell is going to happen to them. Another thing is the debt level, a lot more people are going to find their dream house taken from them.
It's going to be awful and my guess is that it starts soon. Just a question of if they can prop it up till December or not.
24% interest on 1 penny? Yeah that'll break ya...
I use my CC only for essentials (no shopping sprees) and pay it off every month. CC debt sucks big time.
Don't mean to be flacking for Josh Marshall, but he made a good point on this ongoing topic. Bush is a man of "principle," which means that he sticks by his principles despite the facts.
Economy keeps languishing? Tax cuts. Unemployment continues to grow? Tax cuts. Why? Because that's his principle.
You can see it with the GOP talking points on Kerry as a "waffler." Any change is a "flip-flop."
Bush, on the other hand, sticks to his principles. Despite the facts. In the face of the facts. In overwhelming denial of the reality of the facts.
May he be dragged down with the ship of his floundering Administration.
Four more years!
Just saw on MSNBC that a poll done in Israel shows that the majority of Israelis want Sharon to resign.
Regime chgange. Catch the fever!!!
In the 2000 election George Bush made much of tax cuts as a way of giving people "their" money back.
Can we all agree that if John Kerry rescinds the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, that he too will be giving people "their" money back?
Well i don't know how Kerry's pancakes are but his waffles are the best!!!
and over 400,000 just gave up looking and left the job market
MMMMM MMMM MMMMMM he is cooking up another for the tax cuts i see. Don't believe his words about repealing the cuts to the rich until he does it. There just isn't a way to tell if he is serious or not.
AlanB: You're aware that Rome was not built in a day?
The Green Party may have the right program, but they don't have any clout.
Unless there is an armed insurrection, the structural changes you've identified are not going to happen without the Democrats being involved.
The immediate concern is to get the fascists out of power, and keep them out of power.
Work for the Greens, vote for them locally, but when confronted with a choice between a Dem and a Rethug, you should know what to do.
Otherwise, you're basically foreclosing gradual change.
Oh, and BTW, Nader is a tool of the fascists. Only cult of personality types are blind to it.
We can only hope and pray Kerry uses this information exactly in his campaign against Bush. He might want to couch it like this, though:
Bush would like you to believe his tax cuts provide jobs. Look! Boobs, boobs, boobs! He is wrong. Look! Men having sex with dogs! His promise is 2,154,000 jobs short. Look! Marrying homosexuals invading your town! Show me the jobs, Mr. Bush. Look! Obscenity in radio!
People might finally get the subliminal message.....
I'm a businessman. Self employed for 13 years with an MBA. Not bragging jsut background.
Businesses don't hire when they recieve a small government kick-back at the end of the year. Corporations already pay very little in taxes. No, they look for demand and then borrow or issue stock to obtain the material, human, and capitol resources they need to meet the demand. Cut taxes on poor and mids creates demand. WHY DOESN'T KERRY START TALKING ABOUT "DEMAND_SIDE ECONOMICS"? People WILL understand it.
Because that is wayyyyyyyyyyyy to simple.
I relish the damage this is doing to Bush, but am bothered by the fact that the economy is being so strongly stimulated by tax cuts, runaway gov't spending, and low interest rates, and still does not produce jobs. What happens when much of this stimulus, which can't be maintained forever, goes away?
BTW even if I'm wrong he should still push DEMAND side economics and call it Kerryomics. And take one from the Gipper
I came to this thread to read a cogent wingnut response to your inflammatory post
It goes something like this - Bush inherited this recession and if he hadn't passed those tax cut you can just imagine how much worse things would be now.
Sounds like a great campaign slogan, "Vote for Bush, things could be worse".
Renato: the principal of the thing, not the cost.
Credit Card Poor House Bill is still getting pushed through for all the luckie duckies in debt.
Karmakin: I think most of the people here are idealists that are weighted down with enough life experience to be pragmatic. Do what it takes, but do not accept the answer to every request that the corporate-poli-media-lawtalkers give: "It can't be done."
Taken straight out of Kafka's "The Trial".
The last thing anybody better tell me is "It can't be done." I just got a job offer for some concepts that I worked on for almost a year that were partially motivated by an article in the New York Times where they surveyed a bunch of experts who all said "It can't be done." BULLSHIT! Restricting further info for obvious reasons.
I've got a list of "can't be dones". It might take me ten years to do some of them, but what else am I going to do, goof off on the Internet? The best thing about "can't be dones" is they believe it, then they leave you alone and then they are surprised when you come back to screw 'em.
Jeffers: I saw that, best line was his quote from Keynes: “When the facts change, I change my mind – what do you do, sir?"
Which is how the "Kerry Waffles" can be decontaminated.
Kerryomics doesn't roll of the tongue like Reaganomics
And btw, as far as I know, the Green party isn't running a candidate for president...
--Karmakin
Greens Rebut Specious Charges by DNC Chief McAuliffe and Others About Green Defection and lack of Green Support for Nader.
http://www.gp.org/press/pr_02_24_04.html
Mr. Nader announced his independent candidacy on February 22, but there remains a possibility he could win the Green nomination at the party's National Convention in Milwaukee, June 23-28. Greens in many states have launched a 'Draft Nader' effort. Mr. Nader's nomination would depend on the support of state delegates attending the convention and his willingness to accept it. Seven other candidates have launched presidential campaigns, are attracting support, and are on some state primary ballots for the Green nomination; some Greens prefer that the party not run a presidential campaign in 2004.
Karmakin,
Since, you say you are a Green, you probably already know this, then.
Alan8,
You got the truth on your side, man.
was GWB just promising US jobs or did his promises include worldwide. i understand the jobs picture is great in bangalore. will the WH try this spin?
Which comedian said that if Bush keeps this up, eventually none of us will have to work? Al Franken, you might have heard of him.
NuclearMan: can I obtain some humans too?
Typical business attitude. At least he didn't say "Our people are our greatest asset." Which is code for "start looking for a new job."
Clear Channel actually has that people asset crap on their website.
Well maybe he should make the right decision the FIRST TIME. He rails against the stuff he votes for then acts like it was just Bush. I can't believe he is the best the Dems have. I mean this is almost a gimme election for crying out loud!!!
"They said magic tax cuts would create jobs. They didn't."
Yeah, but they said Clinton's tax hike would ruin the economy, and it didn't do that either. So why does anyone listen to them?
NuclearMan: can I obtain some humans too?
Typical business attitude. At least he didn't say "Our people are our greatest asset." Which is code for "start looking for a new job."
Clear Channel actually has that people asset crap on their website.
The only people who'll vote for Nader this year are those who have no responsibilities and/or are too stupid to see how another four years of Bush will hurt them and people they know.
the jobs picture would've been much worse if bush hadn't pumped money into the system with high deficit spending and big tax cuts. bush essentially saved us from the worst depression in the history of the planet. leave bush alone!
I had a prob with the principle of the thing too, believe me, but the ultimate effect is positive (for us).
Oh, and BTW, Nader is a tool of the fascists.
--Gary Frazier
Please back this up with something. You r future credibility is at stake.
Nader has a long and continuing record of challenging irresponsible behavior by corporations on behalf of the public interest, that is hardly something from the fascist playbook.
Bush's new campaign slogan from pie2:
"Leave Me Alone!"
I guess it's better than the current one:
"It's Not My Fault!"
NuculerMan,
Large cmpanies are doing just what you prepose...their just getting the "human" part of your equation from another country where the cost is less.
Nader has a long and continuing record of challenging irresponsible behavior by corporations on behalf of the public interest, that is hardly something from the fascist playbook.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage |
Yeah he only goes after who he feels like going after too. He is just another coporate goon in the elaborate disguise of an educated bum.
The jobs picture would've been much worse if bush hadn't pumped money into the system with high deficit spending and big tax cuts. bush essentially saved us from the worst depression in the history of the planet. leave bush alone!
Oh, now THERE'S a re-election slogan!
Vote for Bush/Cheney '04 - Things Could Be Worse!
Identify Nader's stated goals, then look at his actions. They ensure failure to reach his goals.
He's smart, so he must see it. Therefore, he is lying. Tool of the man.
All of his talks have a glaring gap when it comes to criticizing the media. No new ideas. Same old corporations in bed with government.
We already know that. No plan.
Easily portrayed as a clown. Useless.
Sorry.
There were more dangerous cars then the corvair or corsair or whatever the hell that rolling casket is called.
Middle Wing Extremist,
His campaign doesn't accept contributions from corporations. He is not nor has he ever been bought by corporations. How does this make him a corporate goon?
Your attempts at smearing Nader are pathetically lacking in any semblance to the truth.
the jobs picture would've been much worse if bush hadn't pumped money into the system with high deficit spending and big tax cuts.
When Bush's policies are failures by measurable criteria, just point out that by criteria that can not possibly be measured they are a resounding success!
Bush's space program is a great success. We havn't been invaded even ONCE by evil pink robots!
Because he selectively goes after different coporations instead of entire industries and the like. Is there any car that isn't "Unsafe at any speed?"
and that isn't even covering the enviromental impact of cars
"pumped money into the system with high deficit spending and big tax cuts."
Tax cuts mostly benefitted the rich and the deficit spending was mostly "spent" overseas...what would have been at best a mild recession was made worse by Bush's insistence on going into Iraq and giving away free mney to any corporate cronie or third world country that would sign on to his coalition of the willing...All your seeing with BushCo is a larger version of Enron with the taxpayers as the shareholders.
Completely off topic here: A new report by the District of Columbia indicates that, as high as we thought the lead content of our drinking water was, the EPA's method of measuring actually undercounts the amount of lead.
http://tinyurl.com/3gx3s
The extra lead is to protect us from the UV coming in from the depleted ozone. DUH!!!!!!!
i understand the jobs picture is great in bangalore. will the WH try this spin?
Isn't it ironic that the rest of the world is unanimous in the opinion that our president is a dangerous moron, but the poor out-a-work shmucks in this country still think he's their savior?
Nascar...not religion, it seems is the opiate of the masses.
Yeah left hand turns got me off cocaine!!!
I guess the Kerry campaign soundbite on this is something like: Giving big tax breaks to the wealthy is not a jobs program
WOOOOOOOOOOOWEEEEEEEEEEE They sure is fast ain't they?
Bush's tax cuts weren't designed as economic stimulus. They were designed first as a reward to the wealthy. Only later, when it was clear the recovery was not generating jobs were they relabeled as stimulus. Both DeLong and Krugman have explained how a true stimulus package could have structured.
OT:
You know, all this talk about the imporance of down ballot races, ignores a very important issue that would pretty much ensure the "pickup" of 2 Democratic senate seats and at least 1(?) House seat:
Statehood for Washington D.C.
Let's try to make sure this is in the Democrats platform. Everytime I see a D.C. license plate on a car, I am reminded of just how wrong it is that D.C. is not a state.
Now that I don't got no job, I can watch ESPN 24/7 and don't have to miss a single lap! Honey, fetch me a beer while yur up!
Anonymous coward:
Ratfuck Ralph has been photographed chumming it up with Grover Norquist.
He's a tool. Matt Groening has him down pat...slavering lapdog to GOP fascist thugs.
Nader is part of the problem, not part of the solution.
if I were the skeptical type (wait! I am...)
anyway, isn't it even remotely possible that the alan8/anonymouses of the world are nothing more than a rovian bot(s) sent forth to divide and generally annoy progressive, Dem-leaning Atriites into questioning our worldviews, to (a) give up and not vote in November, or (b) failing that, to not vote for the Dem candidate?
So Nader-supporting poster(s): are you, or have you ever been, rethugs?
just askin'
that should be "could have been structured." Moreover, for alleged political wizards, these guys are dolts. Don't they understand consistently underestimating job creation, deficits, and debt just make them look foolish and out of touch?
Cheney USA sez of me i think:
Typical business attitude. At least he didn't say "Our people are our greatest asset." Which is code for "start looking for a new job."
I don't have any employees. Everyone is a partner that takes a cut each month.And I was surely the only Democrat at my Business schools. I'm human too, ya know?
"Dem-leaning Atriites"
I'm thinking "Eschatonians". Whaddaya think?
don't forget to go donate a penny via credit card to Bush's campaign!
Fucking brilliant!
"Wow, look at all those 1 cent donations, the poor must really love me."
W
"One cent donations, how cute, the children just love George."
Laura
"Hmmm, I love these $0.01 donations, they bring down the average size of donations so we can demonstrate that the little man loves Bush."
Karl Rove
dm,
That message got through, in spite of your tinfoil hat?
Personally, I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't do labels. But I have never voted for someone who claimed to be a Republican in my life. And I have voted for many candidates who have claimed to be Democrats.
Sounds like a great campaign slogan, "Vote for Bush, things could be worse".
Why not? Cheney is already on record as having made that argument. (That is, he said we wouldn't have seen this kind of job growth if a Democrat had been in office. He was trying to say it would have been worse.)
And many groups are on record already protesting the first round of campaign ads run by the Bush/Cheney '04 campaign. (Never something you want to hear about your ad campaign, especially in an election year.)
Stand back and watch the juggernaut roll....
"Don't they understand consistently underestimating job creation, deficits, and debt..."
They do it on purpose to play a numbers/sound-bite game. In January I predict high numbers for March...I inflate the numbers in March and I adjust January's numbers back down and show Marches number's as an increase over January's as a growth percentage...all the people watching Faux News here is "20% increase in employment!"
Nader in the race threatens only corporate rule
http://www.oregonlive.com/commen...tary/oregonian/
index.ssf?/base/editorial/
1078232797227530.xml
Nader is primarily a threat to the corporate rulers of both parties. The proof is that in the fall of 2000, Nader was near 8 percent in the polls, and 60 percent wanted him in the debates. Yet Bush did not demand that Nader be included. Why not? Like General Motors 40 years ago, today's corporate rulers want Nader silenced.
Anonymous:
Statehood for Washington D.C.? No fucking way. Can you imagine the dagage to our flag? I'd rather burn it! D.C. that is.
Marches = March's
here = hear
Bush/Cheney - Would You Like Fries With That?
God must be truly pissed that this poseur is posing as His spokesman.
A...I believe you're right. Only people who closely follow this know their numbers are bogus. But I think it is beginning to seep into the public consciousness. It seems, at least in hard hit states like Ohio, people are asking where are the jobs? But then how many remember the Administration's deficit project for this fiscal year was 14 billion?
Quote: "All your seeing with BushCo is a larger version of Enron with the taxpayers as the shareholders."
So SELL already!
Geeze, do we all have to wait for Martha Stewart's broker?
Fuck DC...everybody who works there get's paid by out tax dollars...I say shut the whole city down and move the Federal Government into a rental loft in PA...talk about frrein' up more money for social services!
"Hmmm, I love these $0.01 donations, they bring down the average size of donations so we can demonstrate that the little man loves Bush."
Karl Rove
mcinma
Oh, puh-lease.
"It seems, at least in hard hit states like Ohio, people are asking where are the jobs?"
I hope so...my sense is that everybody feels the squeeze at home but thinks based on what they see and hear on TV that the grass must be greener elsewhere...so while they slog through horrible economy in their own states, their "faith" in BushCo keeps their hope alive that the recovery (which always seems to be happening somewhere else) will eventually hit Smalltown USA.
...Ralph has been photographed chumming it up with Grover Norquist.
--Gary Frazier
Do you have a link to this photo? Within the photo's context, is it the "smoking gun" that Nader is a lapdog to the GOP? Or is it just an example that there is some common ground with regard to the government's treatment of corporations that is shared among Libertarian-leaning-Republicans, Liberals, and most sentient individuals?
Was this photo taken when both conservative Republicans and Liberal Democrats were denouncing a corporate welfare scheme for Boeing?
Just asking.
I'm an economist, and my husband went to some site yesterday with a "Be the economic pundit" quiz and asked me to call it on jobs. Less than 50,000; 50 - 150,000; or 150,000+. I said the first one. He told me I wasn't capable of being objective anymore. But it is the Republicans who can't be objectibe anymore. They want job growth so much, they think they can wish it into existence thru sheer willpower. They can't. Supply-side tax cuts only work when the money supply is tight or, for some other reason, people are unwilling to invest despite clear demand. Like... if we were a war zone and investment was really risky. And there's absolutely nothing a supply-side tax cut can do that getting the Fed to lower interest rates won't do better. Between the tax cuts and the low rates, we have had an incredibly massive supply-side boost, but businesses are all just sitting on their cash. Why? No demand. Milton Friedman was just wrong. It was an appealing theory, but it doesn't work. Turns out that Keynes really was as smart as he thought he was. Rhymes with brains indeed.
"So SELL already!
Geeze, do we all have to wait for Martha Stewart's broker?"
Not allowed to sell...sell is unAmerican...you must buy...only through buying can you help the economy....buy now...buy now...
You are now under my power!!!
Bwaa aa aa aa aa!
Naderite hijackers!
Can Nader win or even place above a single digit percent without some kind of massive change in the current situation?
Yes or no-and if you're not crazy and say "no", shut up and support the Notbush until next cycle.
Better a crook than a fascist.
A...I believe you're right. Only people who closely follow this know their numbers are bogus.
People don't have to follow the numbers too closely. They are experiencing them.
They are the numbers. That's how they know the Admin's numbers are bogus.
It's the same scene Bush I played, standing in awe of the scanner that men and women had been dealing with for years. The equivalent will be to see Bush at an automated check out stand, oblivous to the fact that one person can now do the work of four (which means, of course, the other three are unemployed).
I'm waiting for that one....
"...they think they can wish it into existence thru sheer willpower."
Faith based economics, hence the term "Voodoo"
Perhaps biting a chicken's head off during the closing bell on Wallstreet will help. I hear Ozzy's free.
they'd probably just see it as a sacrifice to mammon (sp?)
Robert Jeffers,
I wasn't making up that "things could be worse" response. I saw that Cheney quote on Josh Marshall's site a few days back.
Herbert Hoover must be dancing in his grave "thank you God, I'm not the worse job loss president ever".
To true Zeno's...but after all, isn't Mammon who they truly worship?
"Herbert Hoover must be dancing in his grave "thank you God, I'm not the worse job loss president ever"."
See...now that's funny!!
And we can't underestimate the influence of right wing talk radio, which the only talk radio in much of the nation. Any time one of the Bushites starts doubting the party line, all he has to do is tune in his local talk station for a dose of Repug propaganda.
Great - one dead president dances. The rest spin.
RMJ, I liked this quote from Keynes on TPM “When the facts change, I change my mind – what do you do, sir?"
It applies to this issue, but also the Kerry waffling issue. Obviously Bush is unwilling/unable to change policy based on facts.
Whereas Kerry has the appearance of waffling because he changes his mind based on the facts, and really what rational person wouldn't?
Cheers 
Soup
No offense meant. The Bush campaign continues to amaze with their cluelessness.
Is Cheney completely out of touch with reality? His comment about jobs, his continued insistence that mobile bio-weapons labs existed in Iraq (Josh Marshall links to a WaPo story that destroys that one once and for all, too), his insistence WMD will someday appear like a mirage in the deserts of Iraq, etc., etc., etc. At some point you gotta love it, and be deeply afraid for Bush's health at the same time.
I mean, between now and January (yes, I full expect Bush to lose "big time"), Cheney is only a heartbeat away. And he's clearly several thoughts away from comprehending anything but fantasies...
Atrios, you should add this to your post:
But, what we do have is half-TRILLION dollar deficits as far as the eye can see, and talk of cutting social security instead of pork and the unarguably, insanely bloated defense budget (I should know as a defense contractor myself). And for those who think deficits don’t matter, keep dreaming. Here, take a look at the national debt
href="http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/">
OT: Focus on the Family has set up a form you can use to send good wishes to Pastor General Ashcroft.
Whereas Kerry has the appearance of waffling because he changes his mind based on the facts, and really what rational person wouldn't?
Precisely. And as has been noted, combine that response with Bush's continuing "up is down-ism," and it's hard to see how Bush lays a glove on Kerry (especially since his first round of ads has already drawn fire).
Kerry gets to portray himself as sensible and principled, Bush is left looking like a blind fool who can see the facts when they stare him in the face.
E. Prevails,
Perot picked up 19% in 1992.
Nader should appeal to civil Libertarian minded conservatives as an alternative to the invasive and spending Bush administration.
But Nader will also appeal to election reform minded Liberals who aren't bullied into not voting for him by corporate Democrats.
Nader could in fact do better than Perot did, and Kerry will still beat Bush.
They say people who have had heart surgery sometimes experience memory loss.
Maybe Dickie keeps forgetting that his blatherings have been proven to be false.
oops, here's the fixed version (damn html)
Atrios, you should add this to your post:
But, what we do have is half-TRILLION dollar deficits as far as the eye can see, and talk of cutting social security instead of pork and the unarguably, insanely bloated defense budget (I should know as a defense contractor myself). And for those who think deficits don’t matter, keep dreaming. Here, take a look at the national debt
Robert Jeffers...yes, Cheney's disconnect from reality is troubling, particularly because his boss's grasp of reality is tenuous, at best. That's why I asked the other day about the procedure for removing a mentally incompetent VP.
Cheney is either one of the biggest, bold faced liars around, or he's batty.
I give up...
National debt clock.
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock
The BUSH NEW DEAL -
"Details in the report were as bleak as the headline figure. Private-sector employment was actually unchanged in February, while the government added 21,000 workers. "
Yikes -- all growth explained by gov hiring ?
"Bush is unwilling/unable to change policy based on facts."
First one must have facts, and since Bush gets his "beliefs" filtered to him from the mysterious and darkly robed "Karl" and the lovely "Condi", it is doubtful that he even thinks he's living on the same planet as the rest of us.
Here's a thought for all you parrots who are just SO SO upset about having their taxes reduced - DON'T ACCEPT IT!
Go to irs.gov and look up the tax tables from sometime back in the halcyon days of Clinton/Gore.
Use these tax rates to pay your taxes for 2003. Wouldn't your consciences be much clearer if you did that?
For instance, on the 1999 1040EZ tables, if your taxable income was exactly $40K, your taxes were:
Married filing jointly: $6004
Filing single: $7860
From the 2003 tables for 1040EZ:
Married filing jointly: $5304
Filing single: $6816
So just pay at the Clinton rates and ease your conscience. Just enclose a note with your return informing the IRS of your principled stand against GWB's evil, only-for-the-rich tax cuts and, if you're filing single, let the government keep that extra thousand dollars.
Isn't that better?
DeepThought,
Why is the answer 42?
Steve
OT, on Plame Grand Jury Subpeonas and the Case of the Missing Gaggle, Part 1
In an earlier post Atrios cited a Newsday article regarding subpeonas issued by the grand jury investigating the Plame leak. It said:
The subpoena with the first production deadline sought three sets of documents.
It requested records of telephone calls to and from Air Force One from July 7 to 12, while Bush was visting several nations in Africa. The White House declined Thursday to release a list of those on the trip.
That subpoena also sought a complete transcript of a July 12 press "gaggle," or informal briefing, by then-White House press secretary Ari Fleischer while at the National Hospital in Abuja, Nigeria.
That transcript is missing from the White House Web site containing transcripts of other press briefings. In a transcript the White House released at the time to Federal News Service, Fleischer discusses Wilson and his CIA report.
Finally, the subpoena requested a list of those in attendance at the White House reception on July 16 for former President Gerald Ford's 90th birthday.
Well, you oknew that gaggle record would catch my obsessive eye. I checked the White House web site, and there is indeed a transcript of the July 12 2003 gaggle available. Whether it is complete or not I do not know.
This gaggle occured in Africa shortly after George Tenet accepted responsibility (sort of) for the "Saddam seeking uranium from Africa" claim slipping into Chimpy's State of the Union address.
So what is the grand jury after from this gaggle?
Is it this passage, in which "Fleischer discusses Wilson and his CIA report"?
MR. FLEISCHER: He had previously obtained yellow cake from Africa. In fact, in one of the least known parts of this story, which is now, for the first time, public -- and you find this in Director Tenet's statement last night -- the official that -- lower-level official sent from the CIA to Niger to look into whether or not Saddam Hussein had sought yellow cake from Niger, Wilson, he -- and Director Tenet's statement last night states the same former official, Wilson, also said that in June 1999 a businessman approached him and insisted that the former official, Wilson, meet an Iraqi delegation to discuss expanding commercial relations between Iraq and Niger. The former official interpreted the overture as an attempt to discuss uranium sales.
This is in Wilson's report back to the CIA. Wilson's own report, the very man who was on television saying Niger denies it, who never said anything about forged documents, reports himself that officials in Niger said that Iraq was seeking to contact officials in Niger about sales.
They say people who have had heart surgery sometimes experience memory loss.
I suspect Cheney has had a stroke at some point. He only talks out of one side of his mouth.
tomaig,
That would guarantee an audit don't you think?
Steve
And I haven't heard much discussion of what kind of jobs are being created. What do they pay? More or less than the previous job? And what does that lost purchasing power mean to the economy?
Bush 46%
Kerry 45%
Pleeeeze explain=================
tomaig,
I got a better idea. Why don't I just send a check to Bill Gates and cut out the middle man?
Gee, tomaig, I'd gladly send back the measly 300 bucks I got if the rich would forefeit their refunds too.
Tomaig...I would gladly pay the rate I did during the Clinton administration...to a COMPETENT administration. The last thing this gang of chuckleheads needs is more money to start wars with.
OT, on Plame Grand Jury Subpeonas and the Case of the Missing Gaggle, Part 2
The Plame Grand Jury is reportedly interested in "records of telephone calls to and from Air Force One from July 7 to 12" as well as "a complete transcript of a July 12 press "gaggle," or informal briefing".
Is this portion of the July 12 2003 gaggle what they are after?
Ari, did Dr. Rice ask Director Tenet to put out the statement, or did anybody else from the White House ask him to put out the statement?
MR. FLEISCHER: Discussions with Director Tenet about the statement have been going on for days, have been worked out previously. It's appropriate for the CIA to speak out.
Q Did he bring up the notion of addressing a statement, or did the White House ask him to?
MR. FLEISCHER: It was mutual. The discussion was, the CIA needs to explain what its role was in this. And the best way for any entity in the government to explain its role is to issue a statement.
Q Why, if he was going to if it has been talked about for several days, did Dr. Rice come out and brief yesterday? Why not just wait for Tenet to put out his announcement? I mean, was there any reluctance on the CIA to put out a statement?
MR. FLEISCHER: Dr. Rice was always scheduled to brief yesterday, just as Secretary Powell was scheduled to brief at the filing center the night before. So we actually, literally the day before the trip or the week before the trip -- sit down. She was scheduled to brief on the flight to Nigeria. It was moved up to the morning flight. It was easier to do it that way, frankly, and to disseminate whatever she said.
Steve in CO,
You might want to keep this handy:
<a href="URL">TEXT</a> Replace URL with the URL of the page you want to link, and TEXT with the text you want to use for the hyperlink. For example, <a href="http://atrios.blogspot.com">Atrios' home page</a>
Gives you this Atrios' home page
"Pleeeeze explain=================
Richard"
Faith based politics...after all, God told him to smite Saddam, so he smote him.
That's a quote by the way.
Nader 6% - there's your explanation
"Nader 6% - there's your explanation
soup"
WHOOPS! There it is!
WHOOPS! There it is!
Random meme for the day:
Christianically Correct: As in "It isn't Christianically Correct to say disparaging things about 'The Passion' or anything written by C.S. Lewis."
Kerry strikes back:
In a statement, Kerry noted recent criticism of him from Vice President Dick Cheney, saying, “This week, Dick Cheney said that if America had my kind of tax policies instead of George Bush’s policies that we ’would not have had the kind of job growth that we’ve had.’ Mr. Vice President, you better believe it.”
1984:
The Bush campaign viewed the additional jobs as a positive sign for the president’s policies. “Today’s job report demonstrates the importance of having a president in the White House who is committed to a vigorous job creation agenda of lower taxes, lower health care costs and lower energy costs,” campaign spokesman Terry Holt said in a statement.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4437478/
First one must have facts, and since Bush gets his "beliefs" filtered to him from the mysterious and darkly robed "Karl" and the lovely "Condi", it is doubtful that he even thinks he's living on the same planet as the rest of us.
Well, he did famously say that there were no hungry people in Texas, because as Governor he would have known about them.
Seems he couldn't be bothered with walking the few blocks from the Governor's Mansion across I-35 to visit the poorer part of Austin. Not hard to spot hungry people over there.
Or even wandering around downtown....
We had a big tax fight in Tennessee, and there was a camp who said "If you want to pay higher taxes go ahead." My only answer to that is, we demand you pay your share as well, fair weather patriot. Your country is calling, and you are running for the hills, expecting others to shoulder your share of the burden.
In GOP Bizarro World, it is better to be consistently, stubbornly, and irredeemably WRONG than it is to step back re-evaluate, and correct one's course of action. Bush's inarticulateness is good - it makes him PLAIN SPOKEN, not ignorant. Arguing for tax cuts because there is a surplus, and then calling for tax cuts because there is a deficit, IS consistent: there are two problems but there is one answer. This is all very simple (once you've had the lobotomy). Now get with the program or no turkee for you.
According to a Reuters story published about an hour ago, there were only 21,000 new jobs created last month.
"The small gain disappointed White House officials who had hoped for stronger evidence of a recovering labor market and fueled Democratic attacks that Bush should be thrown out of office in the Nov. 2 election."
Their choice of words amuses me. I'd love to see him THROWN. BODILY. HEAD FIRST.
They also quote that idiot Mankiw.
Anyway, here's the link to the story at Yahoo: Read My Lips ... No New Jobs
OT:
CNBC: Verdict reached in the Martha Stewart trial. Check back for details
re: tomaig's suggestion:
Do I get the job and income I had under Clinton if I do?
Steve in CO-
Perhaps that is the optimal tax rate on the wealthy? Maybe its the best year of your life. Maybe it's the 8-year period of sanity that lies between 41 and 43...
The article said *thrown out of office*?
Them's fighting words. Can you feel the anger?
Bodini, my response to people who say Bushwhacker is plain spoken is this: Harry Truman was plain spoken. Bush is incoherent and demonstrably wrong most of the time.
pie, I think it's more "irrational exuberance" than anything else.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go find my crack pipe and stoke some Bush Hatred among my less elitist friends.
A.
Harry Truman was plain spoken. Bush is incoherent and demonstrably wrong most of the time.
I'll accept that Bush is "plain-spoken."
He's plainly incoherent and plainly wrong, almost all of the time.
Go Nader!
I hope he means the difference for Kerry's defeat in November.
Naderite!
You have made noises (Perot?! The computer wasn't asking about the viability of third party candidates ever, fleshy human! The computer demands to know if here and now Nader stands a fucking chance!), but you have answered that no, Nader can't win. No potential majority of people is going to vote for Nader-says you.
Well, don't you doubt we have some dumb sons of bitches in this country, don't you doubt for a minute carefully marshalled unquestioningly obedient brownshirst are going to be voting for Bush! As with last time they will be counting on voter apathy and a lack of a real Democratic showing, unable as they are to really win.
Let's count again:
One for Martin
Two for Martin
George W. Bush 46%
John Kerry 47%
George W. Bush & Dick Cheney 42%
John Kerry & John Edwards 50%
Pleeeeze explain=================
Richard
Another question: How can this administration churn out one wrong projection after another, yet no one gets fired? Lawrence Lindsay don't count. They got fired for telling the truth? In the Repugs beloved private enterprise, incompetence by underlings is usually punished with unemployment. Where's the accountability? And what's a Harvard MBA worth these days?
Forbes chimes in
President George W. Bush's campaign argument that "America is turning the corner" under his leadership suffered a setback on Friday with a report that the labor market mustered only 21,000 new jobs last month, far fewer than anticipated.
[snip]
The numbers also appeared to dash any lingering hopes that the employment this year would average 2.6 million jobs above last year's level, as the White House projected last month in a an economic report from which most officials have tried to distance themselves. Meeting that forecast would require adding 300,000 jobs a month this year -- a figure that far exceeds most private forecasts.
[snip]
Economists are surprised that the labor market has stubbornly refused to get rolling. They said Bush has now run out of viable options to boost job growth before the election and can only hope for improvement.
"I doubt that there's anything that can be done at this point," said William Dickens, a Brookings Institution economist.
"Seems he couldn't be bothered with walking the few blocks from the Governor's Mansion across I-35 to visit the poorer part of Austin."
Dude!...everywhere this guy goes they keep protesters a mile away in free speech zones...he's only allowed to meet in the (semi) public with hand-picked individuals true to the cause. I'm not excusin' his ignorance.
I'm just sayin...
Ugh...should be "Lawrence Lindsay doesn't count." I meant to say Lindsay and Paul O'Neill were axed for telling the truth, or at least something close to it.
Steve, ah, but you're forgetting the question... That's the important part...
Fed up:
If he keeps them around, he can pass the buck
OT:
Iraq militants claim al-Zarqawi is dead
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4446084/
The statement said the “fabricated al-Zarqawi memo” has been used by the U.S.-run coalition “to back up their theory of a civil war” in Iraq.
So if it is true that this memo was fabricated, who forged it and why?
Why was the US so "lucky" to be able intercept the memo?
Wasn't the military quick to attribute blame to him for the weekend's attacks against Shi'as over the weekend. Yet, still no one has taken responsibility to explain why the attacks occurred.
John F. Kerry, Vietnam War Hero
.
"Another question: How can this administration churn out one wrong projection after another.."
"Wrong" seems to imply that they had good intentions but were mistaken. Perhaps "How can this administration churn out misleading projections..." is a more sound question to ask.
Dude!...everywhere this guy goes they keep protesters a mile away in free speech zones...he's only allowed to meet in the (semi) public with hand-picked individuals true to the cause. I'm not excusin' his ignorance.
I'm just sayin...
Well, that's his excuse now...
...when he as Gov. Bush, his only excuse was that he just didn't care....
...something to do with "compassionate conservatism," I think. Too compassionate to want to see hungry people in Texas, I suppose....
Holden, I read this this morning... You may want to check it out and see how it compares to the gaggle you found.
http://tinyurl.com/32k5k
Cheers
A bit OT, but William Greider has a nice takedown of Greenspan in the Nation.
OT, looks like Martha just got convicted...
Ikantstan-Disnomore,
Well, I guess it could be worse for Kerry...he could be wearing a flight suit with a banana rammed down his pants and a banner behind his head that...Oh, sorry...wrong guy.
I meant to say Lindsay and Paul O'Neill were axed for telling the truth, or at least something close to it.
I think they were "axed" for not being loyal enough (hence the title of the book about O'Neill). Telling the truth, of course, was seen as "disloyalty."
Loyalty is all that counts with this crew. Just ask most of the scientists in the country.....
A...good point.
Tomegg, you should just stick to straight out lying. Its a hell of a lot easier than cherry picking statistics.
There's a real good chance that if you made 40K in the Clinton years that you're making zero now.
And that's only federal income taxes. I'd bet that almost every 40K earner has seen their local property or state income taxes go up, as the feds starve the beast and force the locals to pick up the slack.
If you made EXACTLY 40K.....yeah, and if my Aunt Sally was orange and had wheels, she'd be a school bus.
OT:
Stewart guilty on all counts.
No potential majority of people is going to vote for Nader-says you.
--Computer
No a majority might not, but a plurality of people could very well end up voting for Nader. Even if Nader doesn't win, as Perot did in 1992, and Nader did in 2000, he brought a great deal of attention to issues that are of interest to a great many people. So instead of debating over what two blue bloods were doing during Viet Nam, Nader's presence in the race may actually mean we'll begin to talk about the issues for a change.
"Too compassionate to want to see hungry people in Texas..."
Indeed, apparently the "Kings new clothes" keep him from seeing reality as well.
Martha found guilty on all 4 counts.
Knew I shoulda shorted MS Omnimedia stock...
And that's only federal income taxes. I'd bet that almost every 40K earner has seen their local property or state income taxes go up, as the feds starve the beast and force the locals to pick up the slack.
In fact, there was a mayor (IIRC) on NPR this morning pointing out that the federal income tax cuts have been more than offset by local (state, etc.) taxes that have had to be raised as revenues fall (due to unemployment, un-funded mandates from the Feds, etc.).
He was plain as good be where the responsibility lay.
"Nader's presence in the race may actually mean we'll begin to talk about the issues for a change."
Doubtful, Dean had that effect true, and Nader can to as long as he's out of the picture by Nov. 2nd. At that point his name on the ballot means nothing...if he wants to run and bring issues to the forefront of the electorate great. But come October, he needs to bow out like Dean did and throw his support behind Kerry.
Martha Stewart just found guilty of all charges.
Tomegg
--Cap'n Dunsel
Tomaig is a nice name, and it isn't pronounced like that. Grow up.
Martha found guilty on all 4 counts.
Remind those of us feeble of memory (and too lazy to go to a news-site): the judge dismissed the securities fraud charge (IIRC; see?). What were the 4 that were left?
Aww shit, Yahoo took down the story about how the stock price in Martha's company shot up 20% within minutes of hearing a verdict was out. Now its down 5%.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=MSO&t=1d
Another question: How can this administration churn out one wrong projection after another.."
"Wrong" seems to imply that they had good intentions but were mistaken. Perhaps "How can this administration churn out misleading projections..." is a more sound question to ask.
~A~
---------------------------------
No wonder the sign on Bush's Oval Office desk reads "The Schmuck Stops Here."
OT, but remember all those photos of Tipsy with a halo? Well, the worm has turned.
~A~,
Nader does not NEED to do any such thing and I don't expect that after asking people to get behind him and help his campaign he will withdraw right before the election.
he brought a great deal of attention to issues that are of interest to a great many people.
Yeah, it's great that thanks to Nader Bush is such a progressive guy. Talk about issues-while Bush is destroying the country? This ia a Rethug ploy. Dems, contemptible as they are, are well aware of the advantage they currently have in Bush and they aren't sacrificing that for shit (let alone what they consider to be tree-hugging commonism). The truth is Nader is not really going to do anything. Fucking wait till it's not so dire, girlfriend: sometimes you have to work with Stalin and Mao.
Tomaig is a nice name, and it isn't pronounced like that.
True. It's actually pronounced "moronic brownshirt fuck," but you can't reproduce the proper accent marks in Haloscan...
If the employment numbers don't improve dramatically by June or July, aren't even Republicans going to start questioning Bush and his stewardship of the economy? I can't wait for the debate when John Kerry asks Shrub, "Mr. President, how many jobs have been created under your administration the past 3 1/2 years?" and Shrub answers, "I can't count that high in negative numbers!"
"I don't expect that after asking people to get behind him and help his campaign he will withdraw right before the election."
Why not? most of the other candidates realized they weren't going to win and bowed out with dignity...do you think Dean supports feel betrayed by Dean? Or Edwards supporters by Edwards' choice to drop?
What possible point is there in sucking even one % point away from whoever's running against GW Bush that cannot be accomplished prior to the election?
Anonymous:
I mentioned this Fisk article a few days ago.
...I do worry about the Iraqi exile groups who think that their own actions might produce what the Americans want: a fear of civil war so intense that Iraqis will go along with any plan the United States produces for Mesopotamia.
[snip]
It's not that I believe al-Qa'ida incapable of such a bloodbath. But I ask myself why the Americans are rubbing this Sunni-Shia thing so hard. Let's turn the glass round the other way. If a violent Sunni movement wished to evict the Americans from Iraq - and there is indeed a resistance movement fighting very cruelly to do just that - why would it want to turn the Shia population of Iraq, 60 per cent of Iraqis, against them? The last thing such a resistance would want is to have the majority of Iraqis against it.
I doubt Bushwhacker wants to discuss the issues. What's to discuss? Job creation? Iraq? Deficits? No, I think we'll mostly hear non-specific, warm and fuzzy tripe about "steady leadership," and, of course, attacks on Kerry.
Tomaig,
You make an excellent point, and I cannot in good conscience my savings from the tax cut. But I’m in a quandary, because I can’t give it to one of the least ethical administrations ever, which will probably just give to cronies or whatnot.
I know! I’ll give it Kerry! And the amount over $2k will go to other democratic candidates who will restore honesty and openness to government, and not saddle the next generation with our expenses!
So just pay at the Clinton rates and ease your conscience. - tomaig
Nice try, tomaig.
Most of us here would gladly pay more taxes if the whole country was paying more along with us. The way you frame the issue, it is obvious that you think that paying taxes is only about making people poorer. If we believed that, then we would accept your challenge and flush our money down the IRS toilet. My thousand bucks is less than a drop in the proverbial bucket.
However, the issue of paying more taxes is about paying our fair share and trying to keep the institutions that have made this country great alive. It is about making this country even greater by extending basic rights (like medical care, as in, "the right to life, ...") to all Americans.
Why not? most of the other candidates realized they weren't going to win and bowed out with dignity.
Therein lies the problem, right?
In the primary, they would drop out against the interests of their supporters who may wish to vote for them but out of duty to their Party and the coronated one. But Dean didn't even drop out...dignity?
Clark...what, you wouldn't donate it to Halliburton?
For all you parrots who support Bush and his war here's a suggestion: Put your money where your mouth is!
Enlist forthwith!
Sign a form pledging each of your children to the Armed Forces!
Don't accept Bush's credit-card approach to foreign intervention; calculate your portion of the still-not-paid-for Iraq war and send in your share NOW too avoid interest payments.
Troll's favorite color: Maroon
My "Tax cut" was more than eaten up by increases in local property taxes, and my state is in relatively good financial shape.
I forgot, trolls get an exemption from taxes based on the idiocy of the comments they submit to the IRS.
Suck-asses!
This fact needs to be pounded home RELENTLESSLY every day by Democrats.
This plan was DELIBERATELY portrayed as not a "tax cut" plan, but as a JOBS AND GROWTH plan.
Bush cannot be allowed to pass off this pathetic job situation as "improvement", and should not be allowed to pass it off as his heroic efforts in the face of the "mess" Clinton left behind.
Tomag: please also factor in inflation and repost
No wonder a Nobel prize winning economist called this the worst administration in 200 years.
Mystery date... I'm ready for my mystery date...
I'm also curious about how 9/11 is a positive for Bush. I'd consider three thousand plus people murdered on my watch as an utter, miserable failure.
"Therein lies the problem, right?"
Again, Anonymous...why not?
What would Nader accomplish? If he can't win he can't win...you can dance around that if you like, the fact is he will pull votes away from a democratic candidate...that helps Bush. Think of it as "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". Don't be a buddy fucker.
OT:Someone said:"Martha's company shot up 20% within minutes of hearing a verdict was out. Now its down 5%."
It shot up initially as the short sellers covered by buying high. That was just before it got shut down.
My tax cut was more that eaten up by higher local taxes and higher medical insurance premiums. Bushwhacker's tax cuts have not increased my purchasing power a whit.
If Martha does serve time, her job will be open! One more job!
He wraps himself in the flag and covers his head with ashes from the Twin Towers. Standing, he shakes his impotent fist at the sky representing all the bottled up anger and frustration of a violent, homophobic, and racists culture. How's that?
"F**k DC...everybody who works there get's paid by out tax dollars...I say shut the whole city down and move the Federal Government into a rental loft in PA...talk about frrein' up more money for social services!"
~A~ | Email | Homepage | 03.05.04 - 2:08 pm
short rebuttal: WAY wrong.
Govt offices in DC (mostly) occupy Federal space, where they pay no rent, PLUS they pay no taxes-- which means the most valuable real estate in DC is not, and cannot, be taxed by anyone, thereby shrinking our (I live in DC) tax base. Plus, while we get some Federal reimbursement, hundreds of millions of our (DC taxpayers) dollars yearly go to fire and police protection for those same federal employees and their infrastructure.
DC statehood is one argument, but don't conflate it with the argument that DC somehow gets a free ride. It doesn't-- it's more like we're sharecroppers on the Federal govt's plantation.
Fat Sam,
That may be true if you don't work for the government. If we followed my plan the geographical area of DC would be absorbed into the surrounding states and you wouldn't be getting screwed. I'd like to know (just a ball-park figure mind you) what percentage of people living in DC (or in the surrounding areas) do you think work for the Federal government?
Tomaig- Happy to promise to pay those Clinton rates, if we make a deal first. We look at the Total Taxes including property) I pay (and, as a State Employee we also throw my salary cut into the mix). Lets calculate the difference, if I would have paid more under Clinton, I will send it off to the feds. If, as is the case of course, I have gotten the short end of the stick, and am worse off now with those generous George tax cuts- the Feds send me the difference. Feds can't lose this deal right? Afterall, we all got tax cuts right???
~A~,
Nader will only get the votes he deserves, because of the issues he is bringing to the table. He does not take away votes from the Democrats, they take votes from him. Do you know of anyone who really preferred Gore, but voted for Nader? NO. But I bet you know a lot of people who preferred Nader but voted for Gore, don't you?
Again, Dean never dropped out. Why are you saying that anyone should drop out before the election?
What just because some pollster told them to?
Sorry, the wishes of Zogby and Gallup a democracy do not make.
I don't know the %age, but last year IT passed govt as the biggest employer around here. Also, a vast majority of those fed workers live in virginia and maryland (but happily use infrastructure). Most of the govt workers in DC work for the city govt.
I don't have a problem with being abosrbed into the other states, but I think-- don't ask me which one-- there is a federal statute forbidding the US capitol seat from being a part of any state.
(full disclosure-- I work for the feds out in virginny-- turnabout being fair play an' all... )
~A~,
D.C. statehood means TWO Senate seats. Do you get it?
The intent of the voter is not the issue Anonymous...this is a two man race at this point. Do you believe that Nader can actually win? If he can't then votes are being taken away. Let me ask you...if Nader wasn't running, would you vote for Bush or Kerry. If you say Bush then Nader has my full support and I'd love to see him in the race. If you say Kerry, then if prima facia evidence that Nader's presence in the race will pull at least one vote away from Kerry.
anon: that's why our friendly conservatives will never, ever, EVER let dc statehood happen as long as they draw breath-- b/c DC will vote Dem from now 'til eternity-- we average something like 88-12 Democrat. And that's approx. 600,000 people-- more than many states...
"~A~,
D.C. statehood means TWO Senate seats. Do you get it?"
Yea I get it...two seats that can go to Democrats OR Republicans.
I've just gotta share this... for several years I posted to a message board that was run by and for a bunch of online gamers. The board became increasingly political and right wing, and there were a few uber-wingnuts who kind of took over the board. I quit posting there more than a year ago, but I continue to lurk from time to time. Today I dropped in and learned that one of the uber-wingers, a gun nut and hawk who wanted Bush to nuke Afghanistan, turn it into a parking lot and build a Walmart in the middle of it, is planning on voting for Kerry.
I can't tell you how this blows me away. He said Bush had just "dropped the ball on too many things." When I read this, I thought "it's going to be a landslide." If Bush has lost guys like this, he's lost a portion of his hardcore base.
"And that's approx. 600,000 people-- more than many states..."
Not many states fat sam...maybe many cities.
In Florida ten years ago and still today...most people are registered Democrats yet they almost always vote Republican in the general elections...especially for Governor and President.
So I guess that would also mean D.C. would add a Democrat or two to the House.
It seems like hammering home the slogan on the D.C. license plates to ~A~ and others of:
"Taxation without Representation"
that D.C. statehood is not just strategy, but the right thing to do.
Let the Republicans try to fight it.
I think you mistake my intent regarding DC anonymous. I would not deny them state hood...I would have them absorbed into existing border states. That would give them the representation you seek...then I would fire every twit that works for the federal government and would only hire back as many as the law would allow to work in the loft office in PA I've already described.
Based on the square footage of the office of course.
f-ing halo-scan.
trying again:
sorry, my bad, wrong adjective-- I meant to write 'some'
two things that make dc life bearable:
flipping off marine one as it flies over (sure, they can't see it, but everyone on the street sure does); and oogling ari's girlfriend right in front of him.
btw ~A~: those percentages are approx how DC votes, not the registration #s...
and to reiterate my point:
the feds pay NOTHING for their space in DC-- hard to find a cheaper rate...
"btw ~A~: those percentages are approx how DC votes, not the registration"
I didn't ask how they voted fat sam...I asked what percentage worked for the federal government?
And if they were absorbed into another state they would vote differently?
I am pretty confident that the vast majority of registered Democrats in D.C. are real Democrats, not Dixiecrats.
Practically, and strategically, D.C. statehood is much more logical than D.C. becoming Maryland's "second-city".
"the feds pay NOTHING for their space in DC-- hard to find a cheaper rate..."
Exactly my point...just make it part of an existing state then you can tax them...of course if I had my way they'd be vacant and you'd have cheap office space available for rent.
~A~,
Have you been to D.C. since the 8th grade? You seem to have a very narrow view of this issue.
Mary - thanks for sharing. I've heard or read a number of similar comments. I am hoping for a landslide, but I'm still concerned that it will be close. A landslide would be sweet and would also make it very difficult, it not impossible, for vote tampering to have any affect.
"Practically, and strategically,"
Don't seem to be concerns of yours when discussing Nader though.
And why would it be more "practical" to write a whole new constsitution and hold a whole new set of elections (possible hundreds) when you can just become part of another state by reforendum?
In Florida ten years ago and still today...most people are registered Democrats yet they almost always vote Republican in the general elections...especially for Governor and President.
~A~:
that is what I was responding to-- and I already told you I didn't know the %age of fed workers in the area-- best guess is around 30.
"just make it part of an existing state then you can tax them"
so you want to tax the fed govt? who would pay those taxes? the fed govt.-- which comes from...see my point?
"~A~,
Have you been to D.C. since the 8th grade?"
DC's statehood is not really my concern...my comment was directed towards my wish to get rid of about 90% of federal employees...what you do with the real estate after that is up to you.
"...so you want to tax the fed govt?"
Yes sam I do...that money would go to the city and the state where the building is located...that's how it works in states.
the president has almost no ability to impact the economy. bush shouldn't take credit for the huge gdp growth or the blame for the lack of jobs. business owners are to congratulate and also encourage. people on this board hate bush so much they fail to realize that bush has done as much as humanly possible for this country. some things haven't worked out so hot, but that's true for every president. haters!
~A~: the fed govt money going to the states, in your plan, is coming from those same sta--...ok, I'm just not reaching this guy...
pie2 | Email | Homepage | 03.05.04 - 4:22 pm | #
That's really low-grade trolling. Please try harder.
"the president has almost no ability to impact the economy"
Perhaps...but he can give huge tax credits to industries who move those jobs overseas...get it? He provides corporate welfare to companies that fire americans and hire Indians...why do you think they contribute so much money to his campaign? Americans are carrying super-rich companies on their backs and Bush is stearing the mule.
Hey Brooklyn Girl, Your idea has historic precedent:
"... Bush should be thrown out of office in the Nov. 2 election."
Their choice of words amuses me. I'd love to see him THROWN. BODILY. HEAD FIRST.
... No New Jobs
Brooklyn Girl
if we throw him through a window it would be a defenistration. In the history of Prague, there are reports that this was a favored way of disposing of failed rulers.
the past repeats itself whether I remember or not, apparently. So much for common wisdom
~A~,
I don't see why D.C. statehood has you so flummoxed. For D.C. to draft it's own State Constitution and elect officials isn't really a big deal, considering they will finally get the RIGHT OF REPRESENTATION.
Hell, I'd be interested to see what a State Constitution written in the 21st century looks like. And as far as elections go, they already do this pretty routinely for the same exact jurisdiction, you know they have a Mayor and city council right? But the important thing is getting these citizens and residents representation in the federal government, to which they contribute income taxes.
"~A~: the fed govt money going to the states, in your plan, is coming from those same sta--...ok, I'm just not reaching this guy...
fat sam"
You're misinformed sam...when the federal government owns a building in a state, federal money is payed to the city and the state where the building is located...this money goes to the city and the state, not the federal government...that's why in most states (with the exception of Federal Courts) the feds lease property from the rightful owners...there's no tax beak in it for them in ownership.
"~A~,
I don't see why D.C. statehood has you so flummoxed. For D.C. to draft it's own State Constitution and elect officials isn't really a big deal, considering they will finally get the RIGHT OF REPRESENTATION."
I'm not flummoxed...a city is a far cry from a state...you have to have a governor Lt. governbor and the like...and any states constitution by law must basically reflect the federal constitution so there'll be no surprizes there. If representation is what you're after, you'd get it quicker by joining an existing state...if you did become Maryland's second city...you'd be represented in that state's legislature...much more practical and simpler to do.
Virginia would actually be better.
one last try:
if i take my one dollar out of my left pocket and put it in my right, do I now have two dollars? No. I still have one, albeit in a different pocket.
In much the same way, numbers-folk would call it 'exactly', taxing the feds for state use doesn't magically raise the amount of $ available; it just changes the path the money flows down.
You folks have a great weekend-- i'm out like an ugly bellybutton.
~A~,
But we're both just speculating on which would be simpler, and disagreeing. For D.C. to join Virginia, it would need the vote of D.C.'s constituents and a vote of the annexing state and a remapping of the Virginia's congressional districts. Again, I'm speculating, but if put to a vote, it is probably likely that the D.C. voters would prefer statehood.
If this is how the vote goes down, then the burden of them to come up with a governor and a state constistution is on them, not you.
Hey Tomaig
You show the numbers for a person making 40 k per year, why not show the numbers for a person making 400k, and 4 million and 40 million too
Bet those numbers would make the $1000 a 40k taxpayer reaps look pathetic
In fact, I am convinced this is why you conveniently forgot to include that in your pathetic argument
And isn't AIG a NeoCon Think tank
so that would make you Tom from the neocon cabal
George must really be afraid if he is paying people to Troll the web.
And if you argue the fact that you volunteered, this only reflects your poor judgment and low moral values
I'm Sorry if I fed a troll, I apologize to everyone else here
Not giving DC representation in Congress is the same as not allowing same sex marriage. Outright discrimination.
You are right Anonymous...and DC's statehood or lack thereof was not the pupose of my original post that fatsam responded to. My point was that IMO we, as a nation, would be better served if we fired everyone that works for the Federal government and start over, limiting the number of employees to the size that would be legally allowed in a singe loft office space in PA. A tongue in cheek comment intended to suggest that since 90% of any budget is payroll, perhaps firing a bunch of federal employees would eleviate much of our tax burden.
pupose = purpose
But you knew that.
This a little known fact and semi related.
Mel Martinez Republican is running for the Senate from Florida in 2004, challenging Bob Graham. Mel among other things was the chairman of HUD from 2001-2003. During Mel's reign at HUD there is 59 Billion missing in government payouts that can not be traced! Mel on the hot seat. We are trying to get Mel Martinez to answer the question, where is the money? As he is running as a fiscal conservative. Keep Mel on the hot seat. We are trying to make the WWW a hostile environment for Mel Martinez so post this info to as many places you see fit.
http://www.whereisthemoney.org/
h...melmartinez.htm
This is everyone's tax dollar. Outside of being a partisan issue in this campaign, http://www.whereisthemoney.org tries to find the missing funds from Enron style accounting in government. The crusade is for to the penny accountability. Something we would expect from any business and should be able to get from our elected officials.
Thanks for your time,
Ted Friedman
The article said *thrown out of office*?
Them's fighting words. Can you feel the anger?
Why do I get the feeling that if Bush gets kicked out, his staff WILL DO what Clinton's was accused of - vandelism?
RE Nader...I'm sorry, but Nader is starting to lose my respect. The guy has a long history that I agree with - he was amazing at consumer advocacy. But I don't think he has what it takes to lead the country.
His vision of the world is nearly as B&W as Bush's in some respects. His view on free trade is only one area where he has blinders on, but it's the biggest. I read a great article on The Nation today about taking a progressive, not REgressive, view of free trade. It addresses all the concerns without touting the loss of the benefits.
Article here if anyone wants a read.
"but I think-- don't ask me which one-- there is a federal statute forbidding the US capitol seat from being a part of any state."
Probably Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17, as one of Congress' powers:
"To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;"
Or, in human-speak: Congress is the boss of the Seat of Government - which is some place that would be carved out of some state(s) - ie DC. It is not explicitly stated that the Seat MUST be outside of a state (that whole "as may" thing, as opposed to "which must"), but the federalism headache of having a hunk of a state totally untouchable by that state's government and ruled over by Congress directly makes it a fiat accompli that the Seat of Government is its own little acre (or 10). Making DC a state wouldn't solve anything since it would either have to immediately sell itself to the feds or have no actual ability to govern itself since Congress is in charge of the Seat of Government.
Probably the least Constitutionally pesky solution would to be to add an Amendment inserting the words "and the District of Columbia" after every instance of the word "states" when dealing with who gets a voting Congressional delegation. DC wouldn't be a state (see above for why that idea wouldn't fly) but it would have the ability to send a voting delegation to Congress.
"Govt offices in DC (mostly) occupy Federal space, where they pay no rent"
Of course they don't pay rent. No one pays rent to use their own property.
"PLUS they pay no taxes"
At most, the feds could charge themselves taxes, but that would be a pointless exercise of writing a credit in Column A and writing an equal debit in Cloumn B.
"which means the most valuable real estate in DC is not, and cannot, be taxed by anyone"
Technially it could, there just would be no practical point to the excercise.
"thereby shrinking our (I live in DC) tax base. Plus, while we get some Federal reimbursement, hundreds of millions of our (DC taxpayers) dollars yearly go to fire and police protection for those same federal employees and their infrastructure."
No offense, but the feds are the reason the city exists. Being mad at them for being there is a rather interesting exercise in philosophical wanking, but it is kinda off-kilter, to say the least. Personally, I don't understand why DC residents pay any taxes at all beyond fed income (in all honesty, somebody probably thought - while drunk - making DC tax-free would result in a rush of every citizen in the country to that little city to avoid taxes and figured screwing y'all killed 2 birds with one stone, ie no land-rush and extra $) - or at most y'all should only be required to pay for services the government never uses and then only at cost (kinda like how the Post Office can't legally make a profit); Fire and stuff should be bourne solely by the feds as part of DC upkeep - yeah, I realize I just raised my own taxes, but I can deal.
whoa...was I just on-topic with my free trade article??
*smacks self* Sorry about that!
So just pay at the Clinton rates and ease your conscience. Isn't that better?
tomaig | Email | Homepage | 03.05.04 - 2:31 pm | #
Um, no, tomaig. Those cuts are coming right out of the deficit. Your kids will pay it back with interest and you will finish out your life in a shithole with 50 cats who will eventually eat your corpse because Dubbya and his merry band of pirates gave away your social security to Ken Lay.
Assuming a cost of $166 billion (which is a joke) each American family has spent $1,514 on the war in Iraq. Personally I would have used that money for something more productive then transforming a relatively stable secular country into a Disneyland for terrorists (like Afghanistan 1999). I would have rather, say, built a greenhouse, then blow that little boy's arms off.
Can we replace Tax & Spend Liberals with Borrow and Bribe Neocons now?
Bob Graham isn't running. Who is?
In the 2000 election George Bush made much of tax cuts as a way of giving people "their" money back.
Can we all agree that if John Kerry rescinds the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, that he too will be giving people "their" money back?
Shorter Alan8:
"Unless Kerry starts sounding a lot like Dennis Kucinich, my vote is going straight down the effing toilet."
Tena, good point and I sure hope it is a landslide. But I'm voting absentee ballot, and I urge anyone who's dealing with Black Box Diebold Machines to do the same.
I found out in the primary on Tuesday that we are now using them, and of course I got a glitchy one. Now I'm not sure my vote was even counted according to what I heard on the news.
Check ahead and see if you'll be using one in the general and vote Absentee!
More OT on the Diebold things (and a good argument against them for those who are being activists about the issue), I really wouldn't mind E-voting so much, I've been doing a little research and there are good reasons for it.
However, the major problem and the one we should be hammering home is that Diebold is the company of choice, and they are directly linked to the Republican party. Not to mention their systems have been proven to have so many flaws there's no reason they should be used.
I have no problem with E-vote machines as long as
1) the machines are developed and built by a consortium of companies with no links to any one particular party (Share the wealth and the accountability).
2) There is some form of verifiability and accountability (paper trail)
3) Open Source Code.
Most important right now is people should be suing because their election rights are being violated for sure right now. Yes, there was a mandate for a "better system" because of Fla 2000. Until this contentious issue is resolved (which system is best and no conflict of interest). Voting should only be under the last used verifiable working system.
And in the Fla case, many states used decent systems that are better than the Diebold system (as currently used). Why couldn't they go with one of those systems instead.
don't forget to go donate a penny via credit card to Bush's campaign!
It will cost them far more than a penny to process the donation, send you junk mail once you are on their list, and pay for the postage-paid return envelopes you send back to them stuffed full of paper!
genius. Renato for DNC chair!
Shorter MWE:
"DANGER, Will Robinson!!! There just isn't a way to tell if Kerry is serious or not!"
"don't forget to go donate a penny via credit card to Bush's campaign!"
I really, really, don't want Bushco appearing on my CC statement. Or to have my CC #, either.
"...unemployment rate remains at a level below the average of the past three decades,..."
-Treasury Secretary John Snow
That makes me wonder about the past two decades, or the past four decades. What's so special about three?
don't forget to go donate a penny via credit card to Bush's campaign!
It will cost them far more than a penny to process the donation, send you junk mail once you are on their list, and pay for the postage-paid return envelopes you send back to them stuffed full of paper!
Renato-- GREAT IDEA!!!!!!!
Hopefully millions will adopt it!
That makes me wonder about the past two decades, or the past four decades. What's so special about three?
It's historical cherry picking. They just kept pushing the window back until they found a time period that yielded a lower average than Bush's ongoing bloodletting.
As others have said, this ignores that the overall trend has been downward during the Bush regime, with a very slight recent uptick, which may be just an accounting artifact. If the job situation gets much worse, Bush's economists may have to move their rolling average back to the Depression to make it look better than Bush's disaster.
a wingnut economist said on NPR that the workers too dispirited leaving the 'workforce' really wasn't that important.
not that important. why not just say the little people.
Apparently, the private sector created NO jobs---all of the 21000 new jobs were government-added.
Amazingly, I got this from Fox News. They must have lost the talking points for today.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/
0,2...,113372,00.html
Apparently, the private sector created NO jobs---all of the 21000 new jobs were government-added.
Oh goodness gracious, they really are getting desperate. And this is probably after they've leaned on the BLS statisticians to fudge the numbers as much as they could get away with.
Next they'll tell us they were all jobs in Ridge's DHS, color coding domestic air travellers.
Sad, sad, sad. The conviction of Martha Stewart may cost thousands their jobs if her brand name is ruined. And that's thousands more than ever worked for Harkin, where Bush cashed out of inside info for more than four times as much as Martha. Say what you will about Martha Stewart, but she tapped into a product need where she was told one didn't exist, and served it well. And in the process created many new jobs. The kind of jobs the Bush economic policy isn't (and won't) create. Martha is one type of person that doesn't exist anywhere in this so-called CEO White House -- an entrepreneur!
And Bush can't even pronounce entrepreneur. Maybe... entraprenererer...
"a wingnut economist said on NPR that the workers too dispirited leaving the 'workforce' really wasn't that important.
not that important. why not just say the little people." - pansypoo
I bet there's around 3 million people, not counting those 400 k or so that would disagree with that.
Think aWol will finally hire that Jobs Czar he announced last Labor Day? Just asking.
This a little known fact and semi related.
Mel Martinez Republican is running for the Senate from Florida in 2004, challenging Bob Graham. Mel among other things was the chairman of HUD from 2001-2003. During Mel's reign at HUD there is 59 Billion missing in government payouts that can not be traced! Mel on the hot seat. We are trying to get Mel Martinez to answer the question, where is the money? As he is running as a fiscal conservative. Keep Mel on the hot seat. We are trying to make the WWW a hostile environment for Mel Martinez so post this info to as many places you see fit.
http://www.whereisthemoney.org/
h...melmartinez.htm
This is everyone's tax dollar. Outside of being a partisan issue in this campaign, http://www.whereisthemoney.org tries to find the missing funds from Enron style accounting in government. The crusade is for to the penny accountability. Something we would expect from any business and should be able to get from our elected officials.
Thanks for your time,
Ted Friedman
oops, I didn't mean to post that twice! Guess you have to watch it when you hit refresh!
John Glinitz,
LOL! Cats will eat your corpse! Good reason to get a dog!
Arthur My feelings on Martha exactly. Thanks for stating it so well.
Mel Martinez Republican is running for the Senate from Florida in 2004, challenging Bob Graham.
Graham's not running. It's an open seat.
Slightly OT, but related to the job creation story - has anyone else noted that the Department of Labor for the second month in a row has deferred publishing its monthly report on the Producer Price Index. They're claiming to have shifted over to a new statistical method and have had trouble crunching the numbers. What offer will someone make that the PPI is starting to spike courtesy of the Fed Reserve's easy money policy and the Dragon Lady at Labor wants to hide the fact? Can anyone say "stagflation"?
If you look at the last 100 years or so, the rule is that tax increases create jobs. Look at the Great War (1917-1 taxes that fueled the roaring 20s. Then, the tax cuts of the 20s fueled the Great Depression. Then came WWII taxes, 90% and up, and what happened. Job growth into the 60s! Reagan cuts taxes in 81, jobs vanish, taxes up in 86, jobs up. Clinton raises taxes higher, and the economy soars in the 90s.
The Republicans are run by old out of work Soviet party hacks. Every time you let go of a rock and falls, they make up an excuse for why it doesn't rise into the air. If George Bush said that water runs downhill, I'd be redesigning the Hoover Dam.
What jobs? Are they just making up numbers here to look good.
www.witnessreport.com
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