I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
wheels come of his Lexus again?
Will someone explain to me what point that jackass Friedman is trying to make?
Will someone explain to me what point that jackass Friedman is trying to make?
Gary Frazier
Perhaps to fill some white space with some black squiggles? Beats me and I tried to read it twice!
MoDo's on the right track here, but:
In an interview with The Guardian, the weapons sleuth David Kay said it's time for Mr. Bush to take personal responsibility: "It's about confronting and coming clean with the American people. . . . He should say: `We were mistaken and I am determined to find out why.' "
The fratboy coward will never utter those words. As he's led up to the guilloine, he'll continue to deny the truth: that he's a miserable failure, a tyrant, and the most pathetic excuse for a human being since Pol Pot.
TF's point seems to be that Infosys is as grave a threat as Al Qaeda. His first good column in a while ;p
Every once in a while the technology and terrorist supply chains intersect...
AQ uses SAP? And Friedman uses crack?
I'm VERY dissapointed in you, Atrios. You have now cast aspersions upon acid droppers everywhere.
:o)
"The contents of this message are mine personally and do not reflect any position of the U.S. Government."
OK, so Friedman is equating outsourcing to flying planes into the WTC?
This is not going to please his plutocrat masters very much.
Owsley's back!
I would pay good money to see how enthusiastic Friedman's global-economasturbation would be the week after the NYT announces it is laying him off and outsourcing his column to a team of howler monkeys in Hyderabad.
societies where there was no democracy and where fundamentalists have often suffocated women and intellectuals who crave science, free thinking and rationality.
Good point Tom, what's up with people like that? Oh yeah, they're running our country.
Owsley's back!
Great! but it's too late for Tom, he's already od'd on the cheap import stuff.
I wish someone would tell friedman that if he doesn't have something intelligent to say he should just shut the fuck up.
I couldn't figure out the point out the column either- unless he was trying to tell us how good for india outsourcing is. I'm sure all the people who have lost jobs to outsourcing will find that quite comforting.
Trust me, A-man...acid doesn't make you write like that.
MoDo found blogs.
TF has been spending too much time in the Bombay opium dens.
So MoDo steals a few riffs from Josh Marshall and Carlos Watson spouts pearls of Atrios as if they are the conventional wisdom all hipsters know. Is this what it looks like when a tide changes? Is the latest fashion news a return to earth tones? Can I eat tofu again without someone thinking that I'm soft on terrorism?
Anyone want to start a pool on when Friedman gets fired? I mean, Jesus Christ.
Can I eat tofu again without someone thinking that I'm soft on terrorism?
JayG
No. Bwa Ha ha ha ha haa hahahah.
Sorry. I just hate tofu, carry on, eat all the tofu you like.
chris/tx,
No, you don't write like that on opium, either. Dammit, y'all trust me on the whole "write on X drug" issue. I know these things. Frankly, don't try to write on anything but whiskey.
Anyone want to start a pool on when Friedman gets fired? I mean, Jesus Christ.
If Novakula can't get fired for all the bullshit he pulls, why would the times fire Tom Friekman? I don't think they'd fire him for saying Bush eats babies for breakfast.
At least Safire is reasonably coherent. Brooks, and especially Friedman, are just uuuuuuughhhhhhhhh.
No, you don't write like that on opium, either. Dammit, y'all trust me on the whole "write on X drug" issue. I know these things. Frankly, don't try to write on anything but whiskey.
I tried writing on mushrooms once. It was scary. Both during and after.
To me, Friedman's article makes a simple point. Outsourcing and terrorism are two responses to the global spread of the key "western" values of consumerism/capitalism. When confronted with the globalization of greed, "open" cultures jump on the opportunity to cash in on the trend, while "closed" cultures fight back.
Good work Tommy!
Next stop Legoland!
Hey Tom.....pull my finger.
PS: And please MR A,
The Freed doesn't show that
he's GOT that kind of awareness.
I think it's more like poppers
for tommyboy.
"OK, so Friedman is equating outsourcing to flying planes into the WTC?"
No, no! He's trying to say that *opposition* to outsourcing is the same as flying planes into the WTC!
If you're *against* outsourcing, you're just like those wacky Luddite Islamists, see? They're against "progress" too.
shorter Friedman: Democracy good, fundamentalism bad.
backslider & flg - Thought Edgar Allen Poe wrote his best stuff on opium, but I will defer to the more knowledgeable.
I tried writing on mushrooms once, but they got all crumbly and icky
four legs good,
Somewhere, I've got two 90-minute tapes full of ramblings whilst on mushrooms. I'm afraid of listening to them.
chris/tx,
He may've written on opium, but I guarantee you he edited sober.
I think MoDo should steal Alterman's stuff every day. Or maybe DeLong's riffs occassionally as well.
The fratboy coward will never utter those words. As he's led up to the guilloine, he'll continue to deny the truth: that he's a "miserable failure, a tyrant, and the most pathetic excuse for a human being since Pol Pot.
Gary Frazier
fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice,uh, uh, won't get fooled again
Good to see MoDo get some mojo, she has a wide following particularly among some of the intellectual females I know. Even Jay Leno tore Bush a new one the other night with some guy playing bush as a buffoon on a game show. MoDo, Leno, and now Stern - Hammering the moderates to win this election.
There will have to be regime change at the New York Times before Friedman can be fired.
However, I think that regime change will come eventually.
Of all the absurd Friedman comparisons, the 'India has call centers, Pakistan has terrorist training camps' one takes the cake. It beggars belief.
Obviously, he's forgotten, say, about the Hindu extremists who tore down the Ayodha mosque, and whose party took advantage of India's democracy when it won elections. And don't forget all the fun in Kashmir, Tommy!
Comparing Bombay's economy and culture to that of northern Pakistan is like comparing Silicon Valley to the rural South. And guess what, in those areas of the US where there's poverty, religious bigotry and lots of young men with not much to do, you'll often find lovely organisations (militias, the KKK) providing the same kind of community structure and outlet for creative energies.
Whaddya expect. Its Friedman. The fuk is a nutjob and he changes more than the weather. I hold him about as high as I hold Foxnews. He should get a job with Fox, he would fit right in with the rest of them.
Reads like cough syrup to me.
Try reading it while playing "Dark Side of the Moon." It makes more sense.
courtesy busy3 shorter Friedman:
if we had some eggs
we could have ham and eggs
if we had some ham
how soon until Tommy Boy gets his job outsourced, and his bosses will say "thanks for the great idea, we're sure you won't mind, you kept saying how good it was"
Comparing Bombay's economy and culture to that of northern Pakistan is like comparing Silicon Valley to the rural South
Exactly. Our outsourcing is going mainly to the areas of India that are either Hindu or Christian. Follow the money on funding terrorism and it goes to Saudi sheiks, some of the oil rich emiriates, the former BCCI, etc.
...we can be part of a global supply chain that produces profit for Indians, Americans and Asians...
Amend it to read "profit for Indian, American, and Asian stockholders and corporate execs" and you'll be closer to the mark. Profit would be starkly absent from the pockets of those who lost jobs to overseas workers.
For a real eye-opening experience, try working with the Citibank customer service reps in Bombay. Eeeps.
To paraphrase Richard Armitage:
Sounds like Friedman is off his meds and out of therapy.
how soon until Tommy Boy gets his job outsourced
Tommy stated on NewsHour last week that he didn't have to worry about his job being outsourced.
His 15 minutes are just about up.
I tried writing on mushrooms once, but they got all crumbly and icky
The trick is to use magic marker, not pencil.
(Occasionally I regret not trying non-alcohol drugs, but not often and not for a long time.)
I used to teach freshman English at a state U, and I got in trouble for refusing to teach the damn "compare and contrast" paper; I just couldn't bear to read all the forced analogies from kids who might otherwise be too sensible to make them. But no one was forcing Friedman; I got a Nam-vet style panic flashback when I saw Friedman's "entry parallel," as our teacher's manual called it:
The room's eight clocks tell the story: U.S. West, U.S. East, G.M.T., India, Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan, Australia.
As I looked at this, a thought popped into my head: Who else has such a global supply chain today? Of course: Al Qaeda
Gosh--I can think of lotsa who elses with an even wider global reach, like my friend Bobby, who runs a little spice shop. Or Allegro Music (great web site), where they specialize in world music (Ever wonder what those Tuvan throat singers were droning on about in two voices with their heads vibrating--Allegro has lyric sheet translations, and a common theme is "Some Mongolian lowlife stole my best horse and I want revenge!"--but I digress). Maybe I could compare and contrast Bobby and Allegro and get my name in print next to David Brooks'--wich would you read?
D+ for Friedman with comment "Bad entry parallel loses reader right away--reviewed in class"
OT--If you like wOOt's Santorum Centerfold series, try searching "abercrombiedog" an Google Image; I hope wOOt hasn't used it already
I am not so worried about Tommy and Mo, I am more worried about why Novakula was interviewing the fugly Olson dude, I think they are getting frantic and want to try to frantically remake their fugly team in a frantic last-ditch attempt.
To me it looked like they were getting ready to dump the fugly Ashcroft and give us the even fuglier and Odious Olson.
.....
Oh don't worry,
I'm sure there's a future on
Bill Bennett's show of enlightenment.
April's just around the corner.
For a real eye-opening experience, try working with the Citibank customer service reps in Bombay. Eeeps.
Erik G
true story- I had a customer leave a credit card after a sale a few weeks ago. called the customer service center 800 number on the back to let them know where the card was so that if he called to report it missing he wouldn't freak out. spent about 20 minutes on the phone with someone who had no clue what I was talking about, or why I was calling.needles to say, it was a complete and total waste of time. fortunately the customer guessed where the card was and came by the next day to pick it up
Comparing Bombay's economy and culture to that of northern Pakistan is like comparing Silicon Valley to the rural South
Exactly. Our outsourcing is going mainly to the areas of India that are either Hindu or Christian. Follow the money on funding terrorism and it goes to Saudi sheiks, some of the oil rich emiriates, the former BCCI, etc.
chris/tx | Email | Homepage | 03.13.04 - 10:38 pm | #
Oh no, that would be the wrong conclusion.
The point is that he is comparing apples and oranges.
All of India is not Bombay or Bangalore, there are plenty of rural places there.
Yes, Pakistan has vastly fallen behind in its infrastructure development and industry and entrepreneur activity.
But one point that Tommy did correctly make was that by no means whatsoever is the entrepreneur activity restricted to Hindus and Christians, quite the contrary.
In fact, Muslims are a huge part of the vibrant intellectual, entrepreneur, jurisprudent, political and artistic structure of the country and have been so for generations.
Several Presidents, several revered Justices, at least one Chief Justice and countless entrepreneurs, legislators, widely adored movie superstars, sports heros, scientists and philanthropists, yadda yadda all Muslims, thank you 
.
.....
Tom Friedman is to globalization what creationism is to science.
Did some Bushie make Friedman some ass if he just kissed their's until the next election? That man needs some medication.
Propable next Friedman columns -"The world is flat and that's a good thing as long as I show you where the edge is"; or "Terrorism - an economic growth positive b/c people have to clean up the devastation and dead people require less health care."
http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/31719
There's a parody there saying that Friedman's been outsourced. Pretty funny.
I tried writing on mushrooms once.
In college I wrote a paper analyzing Dostoevsky's "Grand Inquisitor" while stoned. In Russian. It was all my friend Scott's fault because he came over and said "Hey, Todd, you wanna get baked?" I demurred, "I can't--I have this paper to write for tomorrow." But Scott was very persuasive: "C'mon, man." "Okay," I said. It turned out to be a damn fine paper, although I can barely read a word of it 13 years later. Maybe I need to smoke a little again...
As Michael Mandelbaum, the Johns Hopkins foreign policy professor, put it: "Our next election will be about these two challenges — with the Republicans focused on how we respond to Al Qaeda, and the losers from globalization, and the Democrats focused on how we respond to Infosys, and the winners from globalization."
This is one of the more hilariously inane and simplistic attempts at some kind of symmetry in the article, Tommy is such a doofus, OK, it is not his directly, it is this Mandelbaum person’s hilariously inane assessment, but Tommy is the one who chose to put it in.
This could be exactly why they look like such buffoons making these inanely solemn assessments that completely miss the mark.
What the hooey is that supposed to mean, the man is simply Clueless.
He is totally mistaken if he thinks Outsourcing is a Dem or a Rethug issue, everybody in the community is concerned about that and just having one cute buddy in Outsourcing is not gonna solve the prollem.
Second of all, we don’t have to start finding fault with one or another operator or tech who didn’t exactly perform, we can find doofuses anyplace, being a doofus is not the prollem for outsourcing, the prollem is giving Tax Breaks to companies that take jobs overseas or giving tax incentives to companies who keep jobs here.
Third of all, he is totally mistaken if he thinks Rethugs are the ones who are dealing with the Terrist issue, the prollem is their dude Bush has a policy that is leaving the communities upset and disgruntled because his jihadi jingoist rhetoric and his bungling and bamboozling are making us long for a change and it is taking too much out of the communities in sacrifice and resources, so there.
So they are completely mistaken if they think we are looking to Rethugs for one and Dems to the other, those who want Dems and Kerry are looking for changes in both areas, we want them to take a global strategy both for jobs and for security and no more of the Bushie pandering and jingoism that seems to be the case and we want Adults back and restoring American communities and American honor both domestically and overseas, thank you .
.....
It's kind of a shame that Dowd didn't catch on the fact that W was a half-assed bullshitter before he copped the presidency. Anyone with half a brain could have told her. As I remember, she was all worried about the color of Gore's suits.
outsourcing his column to a team of howler monkeys in Hyderabad.
Nope, no racism here.
In fairness to Dowd, Bush having shown zero sense of responsibilty about pretty much anything is such an obvious point that she didn't actually need to lift it from Marshall. I mean, really--it never occurred to you?
that is writing on some form of speed.
i mean that is so incoherent i cant even make fun of it!!!
In fairness to Dowd, Bush having shown zero sense of responsibilty about pretty much anything is such an obvious point that she didn't actually need to lift it from Marshall. I mean, really--it never occurred to you?
Molly, NYC | Email | Homepage | 03.13.04 - 11:58 pm | #
Ha, ha, you’re right that it has become thumpingly obvious when even Mo has to start kvetching about Dubya, only last week or maybe it was Wednesday, I can’t remember, it looked like she was buying the Rethug kool-aid that Dubya’s hilariously inane ad campaign was gonna win him friends and influence people and folks are telling us here that folks are Rejecting it 2:1, gee, oh my.
On top of which they look like they are made by Priscilla Queen of the Night in collaboration with Pinocchio.
On top of which like TD says:
It's kind of a shame that Dowd didn't catch on the fact that W was a half-assed bullshitter before he copped the presidency. Anyone with half a brain could have told her. As I remember, she was all worried about the color of Gore's suits.
TownDrunk | Email | Homepage | 03.13.04 - 11:40 pm | #
Yeah, well, the bottom line I don’t worry about Mo is that this here and most of what little she says about Dubya that is not secretly adulating in a schoolgirl way always looks more like a Duty Kvitch or a retention of creds kvitch, which doesn’t fool anyone.
It also looks fairly obviously and sometimes hilariously so when she does her share of Duty Shill for the Rethugs, especially the Mamma Likudnik wing of the Washington Rethugs (that’s how it looks to me, OK 
) and sometimes for the Bidness Wing of the Rethugs and puts out whatever changes in public outcry the Rethugs feel will help them shape the ticket or the dialog.
But those are just side forays from her main porpoise which is a constant stream of kvitch, kvitch, kvitch at anyone with a D and she will be back to taking shots at Kerry and Teresa and Hillary and Bill and anyone with a D after their names, very shortly I think it would be perfectly safe to bet, as part of her contribution to the Dubya Election Campaign .
.....
To Hmmm--Howler monkeys are native to the region around Hyderabad. The joke was about TF's reasoning and writing abilities, not about the humans in India. There's also some wordplay about TF's tendencies to howl in print and commit howlers. Your "ironic" comment about racism is unironically true. Or doubly ironically. Whatever, you get the idea. Or should
Olson would be a great move for the Goppers. He would face a huge confirmation fight, undoubtedly much worse than Ashcroft's because he won't have the ex-Senator weight to help him get past limp noodles like Daschle, and because he was a principle in the Clinton Character Assassination he'll allow the thugs to bring the Clenis into the campaign as they defend him from his criminal acts in that coup attempt. Of course, he also is the architect of the Florida lawsuit that halted the recount -- just like to keep it historically accurate for you trolls: Bush sued to stop the recount -- and argued the Bush Theft before the SCOTUS. That can cut both ways, but GOP would use it to continue the ``whiny Democrats'' meme.
They also get some more 9/11 mileage because of sympathy for his wife who died that day. He's a genuine black-hearted extreme right-wing villain. Perfect for Bush's next AG. Or the Supreme Court itself.
mo no wants turkee and koolaid.
And in the Post we have inane lackey Fareed Zakaria claiming that it really doesn't matter who bombed Madrid.
What bunch of fucking losers.
Friedman's brain is fried, man.
Couldn't help but notice MoDo called him "big, bad John Kerry". Now if she'd just capitalize it....
So, does this mean that Friedman has been reading Benjamin Barber's Jihad vs. McWorld, which reaches a very different conclusion than Friedman's laissez-faire laughable-foolery?
Can someone please explain to me how MoDo ever got a columnist gig?
It reads like a catty gossip reporter, and it always has. Her column is completely unemcumbered by the thought process.
Was she ever good, and what the heck did she do to get a do nothing job at the Times?
Yes, Tom Friedman tells about the bloodbath. It's going to be going on for years now.
Tom Friedman believed we should "hit them hard"...as if peope who practice suicide bombering don't understand violence.
Violence begets violence - Friedman will understand bloodbaths the go on for years and years and years.
France sure does look smart now - don't they!
Nickname, I looked at it briefly and it was inane. Of course it does matter and the 2 administrations playing it down does matter.
The marchers had it right, they had signs saying Manipulation of the Vote, I just wonder if the realization is coming in time to make a difference or not. People have every right to be ticked off if Aznar tried to cover it up and deflect the attention to something else entirely.
It is a matter of public trust, people have every right to be concerned.
.....
Friedman won't get it until a crazed Al Qaeda operative slides up next to him, whispers in his ear "this is what I think of globalization, dickhead" and then pulls the pin on the grenade.
Anyone want to start a pool on when Friedman gets fired? I mean, Jesus Christ.
If Novakula can't get fired for all the bullshit he pulls, why would the times fire Tom Friekman? I don't think they'd fire him for saying Bush eats babies for breakfast.
four legs good | Email | Homepage | 03.13.04 - 10:10 pm | #
Now, now FLG, we all can grok that is only because right after he woulda said Bush eats babies for breakfast, he would immediately turn himself into a pretzel to explain why that was the exact fine, righteous, upstanding thing to do and why it should immediately become policy .
.....
One of these days Novakula is going to spontaneously combust from the build up of bile and acid in his system. Multitudes will rejoice.
AQ uses SAP?
If only we could get them to build their CRM on SAP, they would be done in no time, without any shots fired.
And Friedman uses crack?
Sure. His own. As in cranium-anus inversion.
TF has now proclaimed in two consecutive columns that India, a country where 42% of the adult population is illiterate, has a culture that "values education."
I think the howler monkeys could do the job just fine.
Frankly, don't try to write on anything but whiskey.
I work at home occasionally on some scribbles for a rag we publish whenever we have time (which isn't often anymore). Told another writer at work that I was shocked when something I'd written under the influence didn't suck, upon a sober re-reading. She quickly pointed out the longstanding symbiosis between great writing and alcoholism. We have a co-writing session coming up that will be conducted out of the fluorescently overlit box and with plenty o' synapse lubricant. Editing and drinking, though, are entirely incompatible.
And thanks to the rest of you for pointing out that Friedman's column WAS incomprehensible and it wasn't just that I needed more coffee. I thought Atrios meant he'd written something outlandishly stupid. He really was just spilling ink, apparently.
Actually Atrios, that's not Thomas Friedman on Acid, that's him on Prosac...The same kool-aid that bushCo wishes every Amurkin was on.
As for Friedman on acid? Try this:
"Just the other day, I was flying in my living room, happy as a lark, trying to wonder why it is Democrats do not support a man, an honorable man, like President George W. Bush.
As I floated above the credenza, wondering how a little Indian boy, who I met while in Bangalore, could work so hard in the shoe factory his mother sold him to when he was seven to pay for a new pot, it struck me. He has the infectious disease of Democracy and equality that many Americans here have, save the Democrats themselves. Yes, this little boy at the age of 11 knew more about the wheels of democracy and globalization than your average formerly employed worker in, say, Massachussetstan.
So as I flipped and swooped down my staircase, pirueting and sauntering over the livingroom sofa in a burst of blues, oranges and screams, I wondered how it was that an 11 year old boy, who worked a mere 85 hours per week to make shoes that we Americans so take for granted it struck me. America, had itself workers like this, would be a better place.
If Americans worked as hard for as little as this poor, wretched little Indian boy who is subcontracted out to the lowest bidder so that needed shoes could be made, Americans would feel a whole lot better about themselves and really, really feel proud, NO, HONORED in having a president like George W. Bush looking out for the interests of America and the global economy.
But I digress as I am now floating above my bed and these words, all floating in the room with me in a burst of odor and sound. Until next time, I shall dream of a second Bush term and the horror and destruction that will befall all Americans if he loses and the terrorist appeaser and anti-globalization monger wins in November.
Remember, that little Indian boy knows more about democracy than the average fat, lazy American does...and we all could use a lesson.
The NYT is totally full of $#!+. What a load of crap.
It hoists TF and his Mary Poppins-ish "spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down" schtick on us along with the abysmal Brooks who is nothing more than a half-assed pu$$y apologist for the hard right.
While Dowd is OK to read as long as she isn't focusing her condescension on someone I like, there's not much depth there.
The NYT is totally full of $#!+. What a load of crap.
It hoists TF and his Mary Poppins-ish "spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down" schtick on us along with the abysmal Brooks who is nothing more than a half-assed pu$$y apologist for the hard right.
While Dowd is OK to read as long as she isn't focusing her condescension on someone I like, there's not much depth there.
Nickname, MinnieB9 --
Did you guys actually read Fareed Zakaria's column at all? His point is that ETA and Al Qaeda terrorism represent what happens when nationalist or revolutionary movements lose on the political level. And he's right. ETA has very little popular support, even among Basques who would like to have an independent country. And Al Qaeda is also not a big political movement, though George Bush's Emergency Islamofascist Recruitment Campaing in Iraq has no doubt helped immensely.
I really don't see how Zakaria pointing out that Al Qaeda probably has only a few hundred committed operatives makes him a Bush "lackey,"
Kick-ass job by Dowd. I wish she'd do that every column...
One the one hand I'm encouraged by the fact that the research and analysis taking place in the blogosphere is filtering into the mainstrem media.
But when does acting on this influence become plagiarism? The Big Blogs like Atrios and TPM are widely read, so celebrity pundits can no longer pretend they might have just overheard an interesting point at the water cooler.
"France sure does look smart now - don't they!"
Best point evAr!
Atrios,
I enjoyed your blog at first but now it seems to just be a snarky screed abetted by your anonimity. The commentaries seldom rise above a shallow echo chamber where few have much courage.
You do have potential and have accomplished something here. I'd say its time to take stock of what you're trying to do and raise your expectations of yourself.
Several Presidents, several revered Justices, at least one Chief Justice and countless entrepreneurs, legislators, widely adored movie superstars, sports heros, scientists and philanthropists, yadda yadda all Muslims, thank you .
.....
MinnieB9 | Email | Homepage | 03.13.04 - 11:11 pm | #
Thanks.
Fried, Man: As I looked at this, a thought popped into my head: Who else has such a global supply chain today? Of course: Al Qaeda.
Head to your nearest planetarium for Laser Friedman. It's not just infotaining, but spectacularly nebulous and gassy.
Shorter Thomas Friedman:
"Have you ever really looked at your hand?"
Have you noticed a tendency among our academics and elites to despise their fellow Americans? It seems to me that they are all for saving someone half a world away, but can't be bothered to do anything about our inner cities or poor areas. Why is that? Is this a new problem? Social Darwinism at home and benevolent captalism abroad? I bet they won't be so happy when their policies cause major upheaval at home. Maybe they can go live in India and be treated like a king.
MinnieB9--"Duty kvetch." Love it.
Admit it, Mr. Coffin:
You wrote that post just to get the phrase 'snarky screed' in print.
someone needs to write a hip hop song about tom friedman
. . . ETA and Al Qaeda terrorism represent what happens when nationalist or revolutionary movements lose on the political level. And he's right. ETA has very little popular support, even among Basques who would like to have an independent country. And Al Qaeda is also not a big political movement, though George Bush's Emergency Islamofascist Recruitment Campaing in Iraq has no doubt helped immensely.
SqueakyRat--The Mafia started out protecting the poor and downtrodden. It seems to me that terrorist organizations mutating from noble causes with criminal methods to self-serving causes with criminal methods would be such a natural progression that it would be surprising if it didn't happen more. So the progression (assuming this is valid) would be: ("Legal" channels quash reasonable grievances)-->(Aggrieved citizens organize and take up extra-legal methods, e.g., bombing random strangers)-->(Organization realizes that it's pretty good at this violence thing and could make a buck off it).
Anyway, the Sauds seem to have some sort of deal with Al Qaeda--not openly condoning, but not coming down on 'em much either. And judging by 9/11, Saudi Arabia seems to be AQ's home turf. If I was the Sauds, I'd start getting nervous when the AQs stop comitting suicide every time they bomb something--like in Madrid. Like suddenly they're not quite so self-sacrificing. The mutation has begun.
Best parody of Tom Friedman ever: The Datsun and the Shoe Tree.
you, and most bloggers, seem continually amazed by no-talent people showing they have no talent. very curious.
Anonymous in nc there are no Hindu extremists in India, it is the western media propaganda. Muslims are the main cause of violence in India like all other places in the world, they can't get along with other religions. In Ayodhya and recently in Gujarat Muslim religious fanatics are the ones who started communal violence. The governing party name is Bharatiya Janata Party, not Hindu extremist party as reported in western media and they legitemately won the elections. So know your facts before posting a slander on my country and on my religion.
Well, I can think of worse thing things then Josh Marshall's ideas being presented in the NYT. I would love these ideas to become the consensus, the way the HardRight persuaded the media that being Tough on Terror means supporting the War in Iraq. Now if we can only get Tom to take dictation from Atrios... (Although, seriously, that column had a germ of an idea, it just tumbled off the tracks right away)
Anonymous in nc
Violence in Kashmir is mainly funded and conducted by Islamic terrorists from pakistan. India is only trying to protect its borders and its citizens. Don't you try spew venom on India with your spoon fed knoweldge from western media. We all know how accurately they report the facts, don't we?
Kalpana,
Give us a break there are PLENTY of Hindu extremists. Who the fuck do you think goes on rampages through Muslim business areas, killing people, torching and looting along the way. There is even a nearly facsist Hinduy poitical party.
If there are no extremist Hindus on your palnet then you're living on Mars, not on Earth.
All of the major religions espouse peace and love - unfortunately there are many people who commit extreme violence in the names of all of these religions, Hinduism included.
D'oh, spell check b4 sending!
D'oh, spell check b4 sending!
Friedman: "From the primordial swamps of globalization have emerged two genetic variants," said Mr. Nilekani. "Our focus therefore has to be how we can encourage more of the good mutations and keep out the bad."
I've never heard anyone say anything like this in "real life," but it seems that folks talk like this to Tom all the time, all over the world. Maybe that's why his writing is so odd -- like if your parents conspired to speak gibberish around you when you were growing up.
homono, what are you, a grammer police?
If muslims go on killing rampage, torching innocent hindus, what should hindus do? Sit on the side and cry? No more. They did that for generations under the brutal Muslims and British rule for centuries. So shut the hell up, don't label us all hindus as hindu extremists. Don't give the shit that all religions preach humanity stuff. Hinduism is the only one religion in the world today who doesn't force the brutal conversions methods of other religions, more tolerant.
TF column is real nut. Sounds like reverse engineering, taking the two election year code words economy and terrorism and generate simpleton logic that would fit into well-known notions. Call-centers and madrassas are just two cosmetic aspects of the two regios with deep internal contrasts. For example in India, out-sourcing benefits the educated middle class and rich, but the poor is still in bad shape.
I wouldn't generalise bjp as extremists, but they are right wing and some people in the party are extremists. Take the case of the deputy pm advani who is one moronic ass crack. India really lacks a coherant national liberal political party..
India has made tremendous progress in education given where it was 40 years and I think future looks good for the country.
Liberals of the world unite...
As Michael Mandelbaum, the Johns Hopkins foreign policy professor, put it: "Our next election will be about these two challenges — with the Republicans focused on how we respond to Al Qaeda, and the losers from globalization, and the Democrats focused on how we respond to Infosys, and the winners from globalization."
How disingenuous can you get? The Rebublicans are completely oblivious to the real losers of globalization, the people of the underdeveloped nations whose rights and dignity are trampled underfoot in the race to grab power and wealth for a wealthy few. They are focused instead on third-world entrepenuers such as al Qaeda, which have found innovative ways to use of that pain and discontent for their own profit. Conversely the Democrats are not focusing on foreign companies like Infosys at all, but on the domestic losers of globalization, the displaced workers who are slowly being sqeezed to death between the financial demands of our consumer society and the increasing difficulty of meeting those demands, while huge corporations grow fat off their suffering.
Kalpana,
The "D'oh..." was about my spelling mistakes, not yours.
I said CLEARLY that there are Hindu extremists - that IN NO WAY implies that all Hindus are extremists.
I can gather from your last post that you live by an-eye-for-a-1000 year-old-eye - The clash of religious zealots has killed more innocent people than any other cause throughout human history. And you want to continue it.
How very, very sad.
I hope you find peace someday without having to kill anyone in the in your quest.
Oh Kalpana,
That Hindu Nuclear aresenal IS NOT about peace.
You just hate and any excuse will do.
and When I say "you" I mean Kalpana, the individual being, not all Hindus - 99% of Hindus are not as hate-filled as you are.
oh honmono,
It is NOT Hindu nuclear arsenal, the nuclear program is Indian, not Hindu, not Muslim, not Christian, got it?
Your true colors and your prejudice on my religion is obvious with that statement of yours.
Do I owe you money for your deep psycho analysis of my intentions and my hatred or do you do that freely? may be I should kill you for exposing me and branding me as regilious fanatic, intent on killing other wingnuts like you. What say you?
The Rebublicans are completely oblivious to the real losers of globalization, the people of the underdeveloped nations whose rights and dignity are trampled underfoot in the race to grab power and wealth for a wealthy few.
Oblivious is right--domestically too. You notice that when it comes to women's issues, their point of reference is invariably women professionals (who they accuse of trying to"have it all") instead of, e.g., the women on the night cleaning crew hoping to hell nothing happens to their kids while they're working or the waitress whose ass they feel entitled to pinch for a 10% tip.
Kids are barely on their radar, which is why 'Pub education programs are guided more by ideologues than children's needs. And Americans naturally swarthier than themselves? They may as well be multi-variable differential equations.
MinnieB9: would you agree that one reason why Bombay et al have done well out of outsourcing is that those big cities already have a well-established middle-class that's able to benefit? I mean, it's not as if people are leaving their shanty huts on the outskirts of the city, walking 20 miles, and signing up as call center workers...
(I spent some time in both India and Nepal about a decade ago; Nepal was poorer, but felt less poor, because the gap between the wealthiest and poorest was narrower.)
Actually this is one of the more sensible article from Freidman. Take a look at the 2 different responses to globalization -- Infosys versus al Qaeda -- and you see the determining factor: the "peaceful" religion of Islam.
al Qaeda is driven to kill Americans because it is driven by the "peaceful" religion of Islam.
Thank God India is not a Muslim country.
Oh and homomomo, dont you forget our own biggest baddest nucular arsenal. Do you remember which is the only country to have dropped 2 nukes on civilians killing and maiming millions, boy?
Molly, NYC,
Good points.
Why does no one in the media note the contradictions inherent in the deluge of erection-aiding drugs and advertising for them but the Republican agenda of abstinence-based sex education, anti-choice, anti-RU486, faith-based marriage counseling, etc?
I'm confused - the pharmaceutical companies who support the GOP are promoting men walking around with perma-wood but nowhere to use it? The GOP is also anti-gay so they can't be promoting more gay sex.
I guess they want only women to deal with the negative aftermath of an act that takes a man too. Big surprise.
Kind of like wanting poor folks in poor countries to shut up and be grateful for the benevolence of corporations like Enron in India and Brazil, Halliburton and its subsidiaries everywhere, Shell in Nigeria...
Sam I am,
I lived and worked in Japan for several years, My best friend's parents survived Nagasaki, I have a BA in Japanese studies. I have friends from Hiroshima. I have visited both cities. I have spoken at length to survivors of the 2 bombs.
If you would bother to read my earlier posts to Kalpana I stated that all religions have extremists and Hinduism is not immune.
I know quite well that the US has the greatest number of nuclear arms.
So what are you trying to say obliquely to me?
Religion, including Bush's twisted version of Christianity, leads to more deaths than any other cause in the world.
Again, can you explain clearly what your point is?
If you are so well versed in religious politics and their bad effects, why did you point out in your comments to Kalpana, "that Hindu Nuclear arsenal is not about peace" Why did you bring up the religion in describing nuclear capacity of India?
Sam I am,
Chritianity has killed as many people as Islam ever has, possibly more. If you're holy rolling then that's ignorant.
Shorter Thomas Friedman:
"Have you ever really looked at your hand?"
Brian C.B. | Email | Homepage | 03.14.04 - 10:23 am | #
You're not joking. If Friedman thinks the global economy will be based on "U.S. innovators, its Indian software designers and its Asian manufacturers" he has a major reality perception problem.
Beer,
B/c the Hinndu Nationalist Party talks about their nukes as Hindu bombs just like the extremists in Pakistan talk about their "Muslim" nukes.
Again, the point CENTERS ON the use of religion to justify atrocities and how this kind of thinking continues to make the world a dangerous place in which to live.
Honmono
Typical wingnut defence. Playing innocent and bringing up lot of unnecessary personal information to coverup the fact that you are a religious zealot.
honmono,
The people who have killed more people than anyone else have been the ones who had the upper hand at the time. Their religion hasn't been a factor. It's been used as a justification, and there's no doubt the world would be a better place with no religion. Radical Muslims would nuke the West in an eye-blink if they had the bomb.
Honmono,
You are a liar. The ruling Bharatiya Janata party never called them Hindu bombs. Actually the nuclear programm was developed in congress party rule. It seems you don't know nothing about India and the current ruling party. So shut the hell up and stop lying about my country.
there are no Hindu extremists in India, it is the western media propaganda. Muslims are the main cause of violence in India like all other places in the world, they can't get along with other religions.
Kalpana,
The first three points you made in these two sentences are false. The fourth point may also be true, but also applies to religions other than Islam.
Sorry, "The fourth point may also be true" should have been "The fourth point may be true."
Magnum, who is extremist? Who without any provocation incite violence and hatred towards others. I don't accept the western label of hindu extremist because Hindus are not inciting violence but only being reactionary to the violence inflicted on them without any reason by fellow Muslims. I don't know how you can say the other facts as being false. Then show me one place in the world where Muslims peacefully coexisting with other religions.
al Qaeda is driven to kill Americans because it is driven by the "peaceful" religion of Islam.
Nonsense. Unless you also attack the "peaceful" religion of Christianity for shooting up day cares and murdering doctors or the "peaceful" religion of Buddhism for poisoning subway riders, there is nothing but bigotry in your comment.
Religion has not just been used as a post hoc justification by the ruling group, Magnum. The Crusades were not justified afterwards, they were driven by religious zeal.
And I think that around 99% of our US, homegrown terrorists use Christianity as at least part of their justifications for their terrorist acts - Rudolph, McVeigh, the KKK, the Aryan Nation, the Aryan Brotherhood, etc.
I'll come back another day, this thread has just become a competition in sophistry for several of the contributors.
To everyone else, great to hear your thoughts.
Take action peacefully, for peace.
As Michael Mandelbaum, the Johns Hopkins foreign policy professor, put it: "Our next election will be about these two challenges — with the Republicans focused on how we respond to Al Qaeda, and the losers from globalization, and the Democrats focused on how we respond to Infosys, and the winners from globalization."
How disingenuous can you get? The Rebublicans are completely oblivious to the real losers of globalization, the people of the underdeveloped nations whose rights and dignity are trampled underfoot in the race to grab power and wealth for a wealthy few. They are focused instead on third-world entrepenuers such as al Qaeda, which have found innovative ways to use of that pain and discontent for their own profit. Conversely the Democrats are not focusing on foreign companies like Infosys at all, but on the domestic losers of globalization, the displaced workers who are slowly being sqeezed to death between the financial demands of our consumer society and the increasing difficulty of meeting those demands, while huge corporations grow fat off their suffering.
Beth | Email | Homepage | 03.14.04 - 1:22 pm | #
Excellent point Beth and there is also a huge gap between growth in profits and growth in wages, showing that most of all the so-called benefits of globalization are being handed to the nicely paid, nicely bonused CEOS and nothing whatsoever benefiting the workers in the companies, on top of which, why should they receive tax breaks to reward them for taking our jobs overseas.
I like the efforts of the Unions, to protect workers rights and environmental rights both domestically and overseas, that is the right way, raise all boats globally, not just reward a few at the expense of the many .
.....
Frankly, Kalpana, if not outright extremist, you sounded blind to any criticism of your own religion.
No-one, unless insane, hates without provocation. No culture in general hates without provocation. However, one culture may provoke another as a side-effect of greed (i.e. stealing from it and subjugating it), and usually will if it can, using religion as an excuse if necessary, which is very often convenient.
Hindu extremism exists in India in a way that extremism doesn't exist, for example, in Spain. Hordes of Spaniards didn't rush into Basque areas and kill 600 Basques immediately after the bombings in Madrid, and hordes of Christians didn't cross the strait into Morocco to kill Muslims two days later when it appeared Islamists might have been responsible. Hindu reactionary violence, which you acknowledged occurs in India, is extremist.
You didn't notice that I agreed that some Muslims can't co-exist with other religions. But some Muslim populations do co-exist peacefully with their neighbours. And of course every religion has examples of groups which don't tolerate people who don't follow their particular delusion.
Hope this helps.
Matthew, chapter 6, verses 5-6:
"equal opium to the masses"
Kalpana continues to insist there are no Hindu extremists -- apparently any violence perpetrated by Hindus is merely self-defense. Right. The mosque at Ayodha was about to kill a whole bunch of innocent Hindus, so there was nothing that could be done but tear it down. And a couple years ago when a train was set on fire, leading to rampages, and the police stood by while innocent Muslims were torched -- no, no Hindu extremists there, just simple self-defense.
I am in no way implying that there haven't been deaths of innocent Hindus at the hands of Muslim extremists. Or pick almost any pair of antagonistic religions/ethnicities/ what-have-you, and you'll find extremists on both sides claiming self-defense as they slaughter a mix of folks on the other side, including innocents. But for Kalpana to insist that all innocence and mercy is on his/her side is just revolting.
Karl, what is revolting is you and others acting like pundits on the issues you don't know nothing about and spreading false information here.
Muslims are the one who torched a train cabin full of people mainly women and children returning from their piligrimage. Their sole mistake is passing through a town mostly populated by Muslims. The utter cruelty by this religious fanatics incited the Gujarat violence.
You don't know nothing about what happened there, but eager to pass your judgements and spread false information. The western media coverage of the violence is very biased mostly half truths. Don't ask me sit on the side, take judgements from pundits like you about my country and my religion.
Magnum, didn't most of the US citizens supported bombing of two Islamic countries, killing thousands of innocent civilians just because some religious nuts killed some US citizens. Are we now calling US citizens as Christian extremists?
Are we now calling US citizens as Christian extremists?
The people influencing the US policy? Absolutely.
Yes, Kalpana, we are. Bingo.
US foreign policy against the Arab and Muslim part of the world is driven by greed (control of oil resources) and extremism (PNAC - who are a combination of US-hegemonists and Jewish anti-Islamists - more of one and less of the other depending on who you listen to). US respone to Afghanistan and action against Iraq was more or less driven by these extremists, and acquiesced to and enabled by the passive, mainly Christian, ignorant majority of the US.
Probably most people who post messages here agree with that.
I've only said that Hindu extremism does exist (as does violent extremism in all religions - even Buddhism, vis Aum Shinrikyo), and that you are blind to criticism of Hinduism, and that possibly you are an extremist yourself (that was my first impression, no offence if you aren't, but perceptions over the internet are deceptive).
Magnum, didn't most of the US citizens supported bombing of two Islamic countries, killing thousands of innocent civilians just because some religious nuts killed some US citizens. Are we now calling US citizens as Christian extremists?
The bombing of one Islamic country (Afghanistan) was done in the context of self defense; a fundamental national as well as human right. The bombing of Iraq was the making of aggressive war by the United States. Yes, most Americans supported that aggression, but we were misled. And we're planning to fire the SOB who misled us com November.
I'm so pissd off at this adminstration, I'm losing 'e'-- and besides, I never tire of saying it: We're gonna fire his ass come November.
Honmono,Beth, Magnum, All:
This is the bottom line -- Some groups want survival (live and let live), others want global domination.
Islam (read Koran 9:5, 9:111, etc) says to convert the dar ul Harb (lands of disbelief) into dar ul Islam (lands of peace -- some "peace") by any means.
Read:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/faq.htm
or read the Koran.
Other prominent member of this group has been the good ol' US of A:
1. We have WMD, but done want others
to have em...
2. Add your own list of deadly
hypocrisies...
Chog is right. Open up your eyes and see the gathering danger to America -- the murderous jihadis of Islam.
Dont deny other nations the right to self-defense that you'all want to keep for yourself.
"Chog is right. Open up your eyes and see the gathering danger to America -- the murderous jihadis of Islam."
Don't get the idea that Chog believes that the only "gathering danger" to America as Islamic jihadis. Dangerous are all murderous fanatics, including Christian murderous fanatics.
so I thought I closed those italics... Oh, and we're still planning to fire that rat-bastard come November.
modo is mostly a shill--remember all those hilary gift register columns. she treats bushs lies and failures involving crucial issues with less venom than she treated clinton's affair, and ive yet to see her just make up shit about republicans the way she did with hilary. I dont recall a single column while the clinton impeachment was going on about the hypocrisy of some of the republicans, who were having affairs with interns on the side while posing as the great protectors of american morality in public. she writes well for a shill, and she sometimes criticises republicans, in muted 'earth tones'--the best you can say about her.
Kalpana, have you ever heard of Serdar Argic?
You two seem to have a lot in common.
TF has now proclaimed in two consecutive columns that India, a country where 42% of the adult population is illiterate, has a culture that "values education."
I think the howler monkeys could do the job just fine.
I might add, Mr. Squeaky Rat, that Friedman also suggested that the women there are "empowered." This is a country where female infanticide is still practiced in some regions, with scant enforcement of laws against this practice. Most are reported as stillbirths, crib deaths, and such. Even in deepest, darkest, Mississippi, such incidents would land either or both partners in prison, possibly to be executed.
There is also a large industry devoted to various medical tests to determine the gender of fetuses for the express purpose of aborting the female ones. Oh yes, women and girls get LOTS of respect in India. Right. And great flocks of flying pigs regularly drop hot steamy ones on my car on my way to work.
Dude, Friedman is fried on some of that bad acid from Woodstock. I'm convinced of it.
Friedman is a fatuous bump. And I can't believe he titles the editorial "Origin of Species", as if he has anything to say.
Dave from WI/IL/IN/OH/MI:
Nobody is perfect. Instead if compiling feel-good lists of other guy's faults, maybe we should see why those illiterate 3rd-worlders are sucking up our jobs?
But of course, the economic reality is that more jobs are outsourced INTO the US than are outsourced away from us!!! Says The Wall Street Journal today.
...damn ending tag for bold, sorry!
Isn't Friedman a big supporter of Israel? Aren't India and Israel linking up? This could explain his articles.
Here is something I found on fark.com yesterday and saved then posted after it was taken down (I presume). It is the verbal and pictoral account of complete disgust of a self-proclaimed republican, who supported the Iraq war, because of what seemed to him like military recruitment inside of a church. The pictures are truly shocking. And the fact that it is a republican that is saying it makes it all the more powerful. I have it, again, here on my blog...and in the same post I have 14 screen shots (yes, I was so appalled by it that after I noticed it went down on fark.com I took screen shots just in case people didn't believe me when I posted it).
His verbal account does a great job of making the pictures come to life. By his own account, they are something straight out of the third reich...and "fascist".
Please check it out and let me know what you think.
peace,
liminal
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