I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Unfortunately, it appears to be trending up for the month 
Well, it's not like your buddies in the media would have mentioned it...
I was surprised to hear today the total death toll is north of 600; 650+, IIRC.
And I keep up with the news from Iraq. Is no one talking about this anymore?
They've been getting blown up right and left. Unfortunately the media is more worried about Kerry's haircut and spanish appeasement.
Gosh, remember the good old days of Vietnam, when the government would actually post a weekly toll of dead and wounded? And if you were a grieving relative, they actually let you take a photo of your loved one's coffin.
I was watching MTV SpringBreak Fajullah, and they did not mention that either.
And all the strokejobs on NPR, CBS, CNN, USAToday,......
Yes, the number of roadside bombings seem to have increased... I may be totally wrong, but think there's a huge rotation of U.S. forces going on right now, with lots of new troops being shipped in... I'm guessing many of these newbies are less well-trained National Guardspeople... I wonder if that has had any impact on this month's casualty rates...
All is as it should be with our state-sponsored media.
I'm wondering if attacks are up to commerate the start of the invasion. Or is it that soldier are being sent off base more to deal with the Iraqi resistance killing so many Iraqis that work with us.
The whore media is keeping a lid on US casualties, either deliberately or under orders from the government. They're not complaining about the inability of their "emboobs" to photograph the coffins returning to Dover AFB, so I have to assume it's deliberate. This antiseptic approach to war is a national disgrace.
What seems to have happened is we had a few weeks in late Feb and early Mar with very light casualties-- I actually was thinking the place was getting stablilized. But in the past week or so, things have gone back up to their usual nasty state. So much for stability.
The US death count is 672, btw.
I've been saying "over 500" U.S. troops have been killed for a while now...I didn't realize it was almost 700 until today. Of course, that doesn't even count the ones who die once they're out of Iraq, or the 7 who've killed themselves after returning, like this guy in CO.
And the month ain't over yet...
I, too, am surprised. I think the media has been kind of quiet about this, 'cuz I haven't seen it trumpeted anywhere. Not like, say, every goddam aspect of Mel Gibson's movie (hey, Jim Caviezel met with the Pope! Wow!) or Courtney Love's boobs on the tube.
Speaking of which, hey, woot! Where are Courtney's boobs? Did I miss 'em?
I don't want to become jaded to this, but I feel it happening. I hear the stories on the news, and don't even stop to think about it. It seems like it's been every day for a year now. Like the president's lies, it just isn't news anymore. It will be news if they stop dying.
Njorl
look-peewee herman arrested again!!
I suspect that as the number of troops killed in Feb. and march dropped, the number of civilians killed skyrockted.
Last fall, Bush ordered 'no more dead troops after May.' To accomplish this, we're pulling back into compounds and not patrolling as much. But the number for March (27) is already higher than Feb. (23) and we still have 12 days to go.
It really is strange. Alex has a point about the fact that there was a lull, if ypu will, of a few weeks were troop deaths were low, so it appears that the media bought into the storyline that civilians are now targets. Make no mistake, chaos is only growing and the worst is yet to come. Reading Juan Cole in the last couple of weeks has been particularly depressing.
The media watchphrase "If it bleeds, it leads" has been suspended, if the bleeding person was wearing Camelflage. It's probably buried somewhere in Patriot I or II.
Dobbs Time!
Do you believe the war in Iraq has increased or decreased the global terror threat?
Qustion is, how many dead Americans in Iraq by November? At the rate we're going, it will probably (unfortunately) get to one thousand at least. Will the one thousand mark change any one's mind about this conflict?
And of course, this grim tally totally neglects the dead Iraqis that the media completely want to forget about...
Well, as Tom Friedman says, you can't make a Freedom Omelet without breaking eggs.
Anybody got a realistic number on total casualties and those suffering severe handicaps (i.e. amputees, vision loss, etc)? I'm guessing it's somewhere between 5-6 thousand.
There is a story over on daily kos titled "This One Hurts" that really brought it home for me.
A year ago I stood in the rain protesting on the day of the invasion, but it wasn't until today that I felt I knew someone who was killed by the war.
whoa-- 89% say the war has increased the terrorism threat on the Dobbs poll.
Just for clarity's sake, the latest total is 576 US + 59 UK + 42 "other" military casualties -- for a total of 677. Source.
Unfortunately the casualty count will probably ebb and flow. One of the reasons it dropped for awhile was that the U.S. Military stopped the type of patrols that were causing so many deaths. One could speculate the insurgents are changing their tactics and so the casualties are going back up, but I don't really know.
As a side note, I was listening to Sean Hannity on the way home from work(I don't recommend it) and he had Pat Buchanan on as a guest, and Buchanan was making a lot of sense. How scary is it that they have pulled the country so far to the Right that Pat Buchanan sounds like he's making sense. I'm going to go hide under the covers and suck my thumb now.
Someone should ask Bush if it is OK for Kerry to use images of bodies coming back from Iraq in flag-draped caskets in his commercials if it is OK for Bush to use flag draped bodies from 9/11 in his.
The question itself reveals far more than bush's answer would, cause we all know bush put a presidential ban on photos of our dead boys coming home. Sounds Spanish to me.
And the number of WMD found? ZERO!
Nobody is looking at the chart correctly. The total US soldiers killed is 576.
The higher number (677) represents total coalition soldiers killed, including US, UK, Poles, Italian, Spanish, etc.
Sorry, here's the link
Unfortunately the casualty count will probably ebb and flow. One of the reasons it dropped for awhile was that the U.S. Military stopped the type of patrols that were causing so many deaths. One could speculate the insurgents are changing their tactics and so the casualties are going back up, but I don't really know.
As a side note, I was listening to Sean Hannity on the way home from work(I don't recommend it) and he had Pat Buchanan on as a guest, and Buchanan was making a lot of sense. How scary is it that they have pulled the country so far to the Right that Pat Buchanan sounds like he's making sense. I'm going to go hide under the covers and suck my thumb now.
"Anybody got a realistic number on total casualties and those suffering severe handicaps (i.e. amputees, vision loss, etc)? I'm guessing it's somewhere between 5-6 thousand."
It's in that range. No one really has an accurate count, though the Lunaville Iraq casualty count
(http://tinyurl.com/qz9upx)has some numbers on wounded.
Correction-- The CNN death count was 572 Americans (not 672 as I wrote above). Lunaville has 576 dead Americans. 677 Coalition deaths so far according to Lunaville.
dogbreath - I'm against Kerry's using flag draped coffins, or non-flag draped coffins of U.S. military personnel in his ads. I think it would be a terrible mistake. It could very well be perceived as using our dead for political gain, and I don't think that's a good idea at all.
He'd be better off just running the Fox tape of Cheney giving that speech while the hotel bombing runs on the split screen. Jon Stewart (who was on fire last night) showed a lot of that footage - and I hadn't seen it, just read about it. It is incredible - just incredible.
It was either Faux News or CNN... hell, the only difference now is that the former sounds more strident, but they're all still reading from the same damn hymnal... which just a few days ago lauded the results of the War On Terra In Iraq, because the number of deaths had "... gone down from last month!"
I seem to recall that last month was an unusually heavy month. Meaning that henceforth, any month after a record-setter will now be lauded as a Great Victory.
About them chocolate rations...
Here is a fitting post and list from the main page in memory and honor on the one year anniversary of this war to the soldiers who have lost their lives while serving our country here.
(for some reason the page was v-e-r-y s-l-o-w to load for me).
Peace.
...familiar style: a style at once military and pedantic, and, because of a trick of asking questions and then promptly answering them ('What lessons do we learn from this fact, comrades? The lesson -- which is also one of the fundamental principles of Ingsoc -- that,' etc., etc.), easy to imitate
hmmm, this does remind me of someone in the military
I don't want to become jaded to this, but I feel it happening
Njorl, this is exactly what happened during Vietnam. Day after day the horrors dragged on and on and most people just stopped paying attention. And then, after a number of years, it was like they suddenly woke up like Rip van Winkle, and realized what had passed their notice while they slumbered. That's when the real rage came out, the demonstrations started to get bloodier, and more "mainstream people" started getting involved in the antiwar movement and got the war ended.
I just hope it doesn't have to go on THAT that long this time.
Tena , i'm against it, too. But just posing the question helps put into perspective just how offensive the bush ads are and what a hypocrite and mud slinger he is.
Does that 576 death total count the deaths that occur once a serviceman has left Iraq, say in a German hospital? Or don't they count?
Well, as Tom Friedman says, you can't make a Freedom Omelet without breaking eggs.
HA! Anybody read Rumsfeld's piece in the NYT? Starts off with this dippy story where he's looking out the window of a hotel in South Korea and a young lady asks him, "Daddy, why are young Americans dying in another country?"
But let Rummy tell it...I asked the woman to look out the window — at the lights, the cars, the energy of the vibrant economy of South Korea. I told her about a satellite photo of the Korean peninsula, taken at night, that I keep on a table in my Pentagon office. North of the demilitarized zone there is nothing but darkness — except a pinprick of light around Pyongyang — while the entire country of South Korea is ablaze in light, the light of freedom.
Is Jack Kelley ghostwriting for Rummy now?
You don't understand how hard it is to defend the Pig Farm when all our troops are away. You just don't understand.
...how telling his efforts to hide the dead when it hurts him and to shamelessly put them in campaign commercials when it helps him.
Also, what about all of the dead US troops. 576 That's a lot of misery and loss and sacrafice to get an old man hiding in a spider hole, and not much else. And growing daily with no end in sight.
We're not supposed to talk about them, it's an un-spoken rule. It would be unpatriotic. Only the dead who serve our dear leader's propogandic purposes may be talked about. The others are to be forgotten.
So what, they volunteered.
Concerning Iraqi Casualties
This is an estimate of Iraqi deaths in March. I can't decide if I should add this to the "Coalition Casualty Site"
It is an estimate, certainly not complete:
http://tinyurl.com/237r7
Ensley,
you are exactly right. If Bush wins and his brand of the "war on terror" becomes entrenched policy over the coming years, we really will have a 21rst c. Viet Nam war. As he has stated , this war will last years and very well may rear its ugly head in Syria, Iran, etc..
Not only will soldiers continue to be cut down in their prime, but it will rip apart our society, pitting "right" against "left".
Hopefully, enough people will wake up by Nov. and end this looming fiasco. (I personally believe that by Nov. Iraq will be so chaotic that Americans are going to say what the fuck did we get ourselves into.)
Yeah, isn't it amazin' that our media can spend soooo much time on Janet Jackson's boob, on John Kerry's haircuts and every other trivial bit of nonsense and completely overlook something as tragic as losing so many military lives in Iraq? If I were given over to conspriracy theories, I could easily believe that mainstream medis are trying very hard to avoid dealing with serious stuff. Bob Somerby on The Daily Howler does an excellent job of pointing out how the media have driven down the quality of our discourse.
There's a lot of focus on the American death toll but personally I think that's partly propaganda exaggeration. Polls have demonstrated time and time again that Americans are willing to accept a high death toll - Noam Chomsky
From TPM, portion of a press release for Richard Clarke's (former NSC counter-terrorism official) forthcoming book:
"The top counter-terrorism advisor, Clarke was briefing the highest government officials, including President Bush and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, in the aftermath of 9/11. "Rumsfeld was saying we needed to bomb Iraq....We all said, 'but no, no. Al Qaeda is in Afghanistan," recounts Clarke, "and Rumsfeld said, 'There aren't any good targets in Afghanistan and there are lots of good targets in Iraq.' I said, 'Well, there are lots of good targets in lots of places, but Iraq had nothing to do with [the 9/11 attacks],'" he tells Stahl."
Judas priest. Every time I think I can't be surprised or disgusted by the attitudes and actions of this administration any more, they just keep digging.
As of 1535 PST:
Do you believe the war in Iraq has increased or decreased the global terror threat?
Increased 90% 1895 votes
Decreased 6% 120 votes
No difference 4% 83 votes
Total: 2098 votes
King George, the man with the fecal touch. What has he ever touched that he hasn't fucked up?
Here's another little tidbit - 26 soldiers wounded yesterday.
Just wondering... I rarely (read: never) watch Lou. Does he ever reference the poll on-air?
Fresburger: Wonderin' that, too.
Anybody know?
good thing the war's over...
So what, they volunteered.
Sick Of It All | Email | Homepage | 03.19.04 - 6:25 pm | # This says more than ya'll really think. MOST of the soldiers love being over there, they think they're heroes. Their families think they're heroes. They don't want to come back here & have to face reality. So, for everyone who thinks "bringing them home" is a noble cause....... guess again folks.
A big part of the upswing in American military dead is due to 'On the Job Training.' The units that have been in Iraq this past year getting more experienced and becoming wiser to the intricacies of insurgent warfare are rotating out and are thankfully returning home. The newbies coming in are getting caught up in a lethal learning curve. When a newly hired ofice worker makes a mistake, it doesn't carry lethal consequences. These poor kids don't have that luxury. The blame falls on the ones who put them there.
'proof we're winning'
Here's another little tidbit - 26 soldiers wounded yesterday.
dogbreath - you're right - the question does do what you suggest - make them look like the vultures they are.
That can't be. Capturing Saddam made us much safer.
Vance is tied to Wackenhut. Wackenhut is tied to Bush.
God people keep up.
Has Kerry ever attended a funeral of a soldier from Massachusetts? His state, he'd have an argument that it was his duty to honour the dead.
A no speech, no statement attendance.
Coverage,if any would be a contrast.
Is your name Peg because you're a woman or do you have a wooden leg?
Portable in the Livingroom has homepage on Google news, which is much differnt than Reuters, and very similar to a strict "top stories" AP rundown query...
Tonight when she booted, I was
"Certin"... this article was out of place...
Funny how spelling is screwed up twice...
I haven't read it all in full, just a skim, sorta of how it is these days for me, I mute bloodstainface each time I hear his voice, and I only now skim articles, unless of course an article hits that has any legal ramifications... Those I devour because personally I don't think it is wise for Mr UnSelected to remain in office with any power whatsoever, for such a long period of time... A Plame neuter, a 9/11 takedown, or anything else in the legal category is so necessary to end this charade now, which is literally killing our COuntry at home, and abroad-
Nice to see 56k back here, you were paged during the Ron Fournier brawl, hopefully I came up with the correct addys in your absence-
"Clarke 60m Sunday, Sunday.. Sunday..."
Howard Dean on Real Time-
That can't be. Capturing Saddam made us much safer.
Joe Briefcase
We have a fresh resolution from the US House of Representatives to prove it, too.
Yep, Lou or fill-in repeat the poll results on air in the last 1-2 mins of the show.
This is probably a bit off-topic, but I just read this breathtaking quote in Yahoo News from one Richard Clarke, "former White House anti-terrorism advisor," about what he heard when he briefed President Bush and his top staff immediately after the nine-eleven attack:
"Rumsfeld was saying we needed to bomb Iraq. ... We all said, 'but no, no. Al Qaeda is in Afghanistan," recounts Clarke, "and Rumsfeld said, 'There aren't any good targets in Afghanistan and there are lots of good targets in Iraq.'"
which is a sorry variation on that old joke about the cop and the drunk on his knees in front of the street light, you know:
Officer: Say there fella, why are you crawling around in the road tonight?
Drunk: I'm looking, I'm looking for my car keys. I dropped them.
Officer: You dropped them near here?
Drunk: No, I dropped them about two hundred feet thataway (points).
Officer: You dropped them there and you're looking for them here? Why?
Drunk: Too dark to see over there.
Seriously though, what could that ass have meant by "aren't any good targets in Afghanistan"? The very best target imaginable, far from the easiest, but the best by far, was in Afghanistan.
Christ, it's hard to believe but how else can you explain it? These bastards really didn't care about nine-eleven. Three thousand New Yorkers murdered and they just didn't care. They're not human! Maybe bin Laden should have targeted Houston or something, maybe then these vicious cretins would have started taking him seriously.
peg sez: This says more than ya'll really think. MOST of the soldiers love being over there, they think they're heroes. Their families think they're heroes. They don't want to come back here & have to face reality. So, for everyone who thinks "bringing them home" is a noble cause....... guess again folks.
Peg, it will come back to you.
Peg, it will come back to you.
When the shutter falls
You see it all in 3-D
It's your favorite foreign movie.
The actors might not actually enjoy making it for you as much as you enjoy watching it. We'll know better when we compare the re-enlistment statistics over the next few years with those of the last few.
I sent you an email Precisely about this point last Sat. Remember? Can I get a witness? It is repugnant in the extreme that these deaths are so "understated" not withstanding the reason for the deaths being so completely unnessecary, unavoidable, etc...
I read google news and yahoo news everyday along with a couple newspapers and other publications and it seems like theres a new unwritten rule: do not write daily articles about American deaths in Iraq. Dunno, maybe theres coverage on TV news, but I avoid that stuff like the plague.
I noticed a change in the AP a couple months ago when they did a hard right turn and wrote mostly pro-Bush headlines and articles. Its still amusing to read an AP piece and then a Reuters piece on the same subject and compare the headline and who gets the final word or gets quoted the most.
"The actors might not actually enjoy making it for you as much as you enjoy watching it." Personally, it doesn't matter a whole lot to me, only observing here.
The actors might not actually enjoy making it for you as much as you enjoy watching it. We'll know better when we compare the re-enlistment statistics over the next few years with those of the last few.
I've not heard any reports that the soldiers are "lovin' it" over there. Maybe it's true, maybe it isn't.
But I have heard reports that the Pentagon has "stop loss" orders in effect, to keep anyone in the armed forces, in the armed forces. No one is, shall we say, allowed to not re-enlist.
Actually, if I understand correctly, there is no question of re-enlistment, until the stop-loss is lifted. Once you're in, you're in, until they Pentagon says otherwise.
And the Pentagon is expecting HUGE losses in manpower, once they finally lift that order....
one of the things left out of the death toll thus far, and pointed out to me be the CSM of US Army 3ID (thats Command Sgt Major of the Army 3rd Infantry Division) is the off-field battle related deaths. The ones who didn't make it out of CASH and MASH to Germany and Walter Reid, who did not survive, are not included in that number. And just as an FYI, this same CSM made the comment (in front of Army Surgeon General Peake, 3 stars) that had the Iraqi's put up the least bit of resistance, things would have turned out MUCH worse. Even given their light resistance on the march to baghdad, they were extremely lucky in the low number of casualities they took.
Fox News had a handy bar graph two weeks ago, claiming that U.S. Troop deaths had fallen off "dramatically."
They had a bar representing the 47 deaths for January, a shorter bar representing the 20 for February...and then they had a much shorter bar next to these two with *five* casualties for the *first week* of March. If you weren't thinking (and who does while watching Fox) you would think that the trend was from 47 to 20 to 5.
They didn't even bother to "project out" for the rest of the month based upon a "current rate." Unbelievable.
A bit OT...
Did anybody else hear that there are five US military bases being built in Iraq or is that old news?
I heard part of Colin Powell's press conference today and somebody asked him "How many bases are you building?"
Here's one for all the moronic brownshirt fucks:
"I would tell other parents who have children who want to go into the military -- in my opinion -- don't let them go," Ruth Lau said. "Do everything you can to stop them.''
Her husband added, "They are too young, 18, 19 years old, inexperienced, still just babies."
Solace eludes the Laus. As devout Catholics, they try to tell themselves it was their "daughter's time," or "God's will." The next moment, though, they are angry and lost. Blame is spread around, never really landing anywhere. They talk of the Iraqi insurgents who fired the missile or missiles and of the Army that they feel did not provide adequate protection for the departing helicopter, reportedly shot down five minutes after takeoff. They regard the Purple Heart, Bronze Star and condolence letter from President Bush with detachment.
The letter from the White House, dated Nov. 17, 2003, and signed by Bush, reads, "Karina's noble service in Operation Iraqi Freedom has helped to preserve the security of our homeland and the freedoms America holds dear."
"We are proud of our daughter for serving, but we were not in favor of this war," Agustin Lau said. The letter from the president is one of the few things relating to their daughter that they don't plan to frame.
Ruth Lau said, "If I could talk to the president, I would say, 'Why start this war without the proof?
My fellow Americans:
Tomorrow I will order our Armed Forces to invade the nation of Iraq with the objective of removing Saddam Hussein and installing a new government. The decision to go to war is the most serious any President can make. I am addressing the nation now to tell you the reason for my decision, and I owe it to you to tell the entire truth.
We are not invading tomorrow because Saddam Hussein and Iraq had anything to do with the events of September 11. The hijackers were Saudi, bin Laden is a Yemeni being sheltered in Pakistan, and he hates Saddam as much as we do. Indeed, my Administration has been planning to invade Iraq since first taking office, long before September 11.
more
The Bush II Administration is so detached from reality that I expect that Karl Rove is pissed that those damn GI’s are still being killed when Secretary Rumsfeld told him that force protection would solve that problem for the November election.
Juan Cole (http://www.juancole.com) mentions the Washington Post’s article that the U.S.-led authority will spend $100 million to hire mercenaries to protect the Green Zone in Bagdad. That is easier than the draft and it diverts money to their corporate cronies. Still, the Iraqi insurgents can stand back and blow up GI’s and Contractors one at a time for another 1,000 years.
No matter, whoever is the next President will have an intolerable decision to make, spend all of America’s treasure in money and manpower trying to pacify Iraq or to pull out.
shit, alex, i ain't got that many pins for my voodoo war monkey.
I better stock up.
and i don't consider it a joke. it is to visualize every single person blood that is on george's hands. and hopefully the pins WILL have a small effect akin to a butterfly's wings.
The letter from the White House, dated Nov. 17, 2003, and signed by Bush, reads, "Karina's noble service in Operation Iraqi Freedom has helped to preserve the security of our homeland and the freedoms America holds dear."
"We are proud of our daughter for serving, but we were not in favor of this war," Agustin Lau said. The letter from the president is one of the few things relating to their daughter that they don't plan to frame.
Ruth Lau said, "If I could talk to the president, I would say, 'Why start this war without the proof?
dave
F me. This can't go on. No more dead Americans for lies. No more dead young people for Bush.
Vote the SECOND ONE-TERM BUSH out in November.
Here's how they will reduce the number of KIA. They are contracting mercenaries, working for private firms, who will take over significant portions of the patroling now done by US troops. When the mercenaries die, there will be no negative impact for the President-in-denial about caskets arriving at Dover.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp...-
2004Mar17.html
Yes, I know, WP reporting, but Pincus has it right, and Juan Cole has a comment.
This stat has become a minor blip on the radar of most Americans. Very sad.
Here's an event to commemorate the deaths of US Serviceman today in Akron, OH.
www.afsc.net
Go into the streets today folks! We're living under tyranny and they don't want anybody to know.
This stat has become a minor blip on the radar of most Americans. Very sad.
Here's an event to commemorate the deaths of US Serviceman today in Akron, OH.
www.afsc.net
Go into the streets today folks! We're living under tyranny and they don't want anybody to know.
Make that 28, looks like we're headed towards another nice bloody month.
One does wonder, how many Iraqi have died this month due to the ChickenHawks great Iraqi adventure?
truth hurts
reality bites
stupid shit on media perpetrated by frat-boy rich bastard white old-money/new-money owners is because reality is far too scary...
and fear - although a good way to get sheep to step in line - causes the sheep to freeze - and not be good consumers - so it must be tempered.
It is tempered with faith-based initiatives - freeky, repressed psychos (700 clubbers, etc.) who should be locked up in mental institutions pushing their blind-faith on me.
Maybe you didn'tknow how many soldiers died but the great organs of the American Media have told us how many breasts Justin T. exposed on J.J.
Isn't the free press wonderful,..."for which ever side can pay the best,".
What makes it especially alarming is that our soldiers have largely been hunkering down in their camps out of contact with Iraqis. That the toll is going up is bothersome, and you don't hear officers quoting statistics about declining attacks, etc.
The US military death rate averaged 11,000 a year in Korea. But that was a UN action, which made the slaughter more acceptable to liberals.
RE: I tend to pay attention to these things, and I had no idea 27 of our soldiers have died this month.
There was your two-week obsession with everything gay marriage. It's the war stupid.
I nominate richard as the biggest pinhead to ever post here.
People die, it's not news. Hey, Bono said "fucking brilliant"!
richard,
Millions of infidels were slaughtered during the Crusades. But that was a Christian action, which made the slaughter more acceptable to Republicans.
I second stencil's nomination.
The US military death rate averaged 11,000 a year in Korea. But that was a UN action, which made the slaughter more acceptable to liberals.
richard | Email | Homepage | 03.20.04 - 10:29 am>>
Richard, You are an idiot!
The US military death rate averaged 11,000 a year in Korea. But that was a UN action, which made the slaughter more acceptable to liberals.
richard | Email | Homepage | 03.20.04 - 10:29 am>>
Richard, You are a idiot!
There was a hot time in old town last night.
The count is up to 32.
Yes, liberals and doves have always been pro-war. Unlike conservatives and hawks.
Oh wait....
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