I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Hopefully they can successfully dredge this one out of the memory hole.
Richard A. Clarke:
60 Minutes on Sunday Night
Book (Against All Enemies: Inside the White House's War on terror - What really Happened) due out on monday Mar 22, 2004.
Oh noooooooooooooo!!!!!
It won't matter what they say, it'll be Clinton's fault and Bush will have all the answers.
I'm going to be sick.
drip,
drip,
drip....
You mean this Mr. Zelikow, the Executive Director of the 9/11 Commission??!?!?
There's probably an Iraq War Protest tomorrow in your town? You going?
Close your tags, kids.
Bush/Cheney '04: Destroying more destroyed nations soon!
Man, the Cuban anti-Castor's must really be pissed to have the anti-Hussein's cut in line like that.
"...imagine those terrorists with other weapons," Bush stampeded us. "...visit a day of horror on the United States like none other," Cheney threatened us. "...the smoking gun could be a mushroom cloud," Rice frightened us.
The administration is scared. And scared people shouldn't be running governments.
--ventura county, ca
I agree with Ilya Kuryakin's in depth & insightful analysis.
Boom. They it is.
Bush/Cheney '04: On Our Watch
Really important OT:
Check out this video of a Diebold meeting with some Texas election officials.
Diebold Caught on Tape
Its a QuickTime file 4 mb.
This needs to be on every news broadcast, and repeated ad nauseum.
Atrios and the other bloggers need to put this up on the frontpage also, IMO.
Will demonstrate tomorrow, for the first time since the war started. Probably just flying the Gadsden flag (rattlesnake on a yellow field, DONT TREAD ON ME).
"One official scheduled to testify, Richard A. Clarke, who was President Bill Clinton's counterterrorism coordinator, said in an interview that the warning about the Qaeda threat could not have been made more bluntly to the incoming Bush officials in intelligence briefings that he led."
I'm pretty sure that I could have thought of a blunt attention getting device - probably would have been shot by the secret service though.
I'll be out there, too.
Here's a link if anyone wants to see what of tomorrow events are planned near them:
United for Peace and Justice
"Here you go guys, here's this really shitty, massive problem for you to deal with. What's that you say? Why didn't we deal w/ it after 8 years? Well, the Sudan did offer bin Laden to us several times but we didnt have anything to hold him on and that might piss off the French. We did spot bin Laden on unmanned drone a few times...no, we didn't do anything about it...We did lob some cruise missiles, if that helps..anyway, this problem is really big. Here you go.
Oh yeah, FYI North Korea will probably be a barn burner as well. Good luck."
but...it also said clark was "bush's anti-terrorism chief in the early months"???
Golden Boy: It's fun to watch you squeal like a stuck pig. Please keep coming back.
That said...
Bush.
Is.
So.
Fucked.
As in:
Sooooooooooooo.
Fucked.
Will demonstrate tomorrow, for the first time since the war started. Probably just flying the Gadsden flag (rattlesnake on a yellow field, DONT TREAD ON ME).
I'm going to the Seattle march. I don't if it will amount to much although there will probably be the usual crowd of middle-aged hippies and black block types calling them middle-aged hippies.
I think the one that's really important to go to is in New York. It's going to be a dry run for the Republican Convention. If the NYPD can succeede in bullying people into the pens tomorrow, you know what's going to happen in late August.
I was in New York last February 15th and it was brutal. The march was denied a permit and it was as cold as hell but close to 100,000 people still came. The problem was that the cops penned everybody into barricades on 2nd Ave and the march kind of dissipated because people got sick of marching up Third Avenue towards 57th Street. Some people drifted away. Some people started getting testy and getting into fights. And the cops finally got violent at the very end.
I don't know what the solution would be. Ignore the barricades? Walk around them? Kick them over? Anyway though, I seriously wish I were in New York tomorrow. I hope a lot of people show up.
Golden Boy: Guess what?
Look over there, everybody! Kerry's indecisive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!
D
Golden Boy,
I'm not sure, but I think I want to have you're baby.
I've heard it claimed that Clinton let Osama go but only from right-wing Internet sites. No independent sources. We should have signed a non-agression treaty with North Korea which Bush refused. Then they would have allowed us to monitor them to validate the treaty. Why would we want to invade North Korea? There isn't a Soviet threat anymore. Remember? It would be suicide for them to attack. And the only reason we would attack is if they attacked first. Now we have nothing and they're building nukes which they will sell. How can you tell them not to trade in arms when this country is the largest arms supplier?
Golden Boy: Do you know how fucking desperate it makes the Bushies look when they're illegally leaking CIA tape to the media to try to pass the buck to Clinton? Do you know how absolutely fucked your crew is right now? Do you know how fucking pissed off the CIA is right now with the Bushies? Do you know how much the CIA hates BushCo's guts?
Shorter Clinton Administration:
"Al Qaida is evil! You must do everything you can to stop them!"
Shorter Bush:
*yawn* "Where is Iraq again Unka Dick?"
Why didn't we deal w/ it after 8 years? Well, the Sudan did offer bin Laden to us several times but we didnt have anything to hold him on and that might piss off the French.
In case you haven't noticed, Clinton's no longer president and can't run again.
Bush was in office for almost a year before 9/11.
Why didn't *he* deal with it then. Why is he stonewalling the investigation now?
Hell, as long as we're blaming Clinton (who probably does share some of the responsibilty) why not blame Carter and Reagan? They're the ones who started funding the Islamic fundamentalists in order to weaken the Soviets.
......or, perhaps...your baby. Soooooo hard to spell correctly when considering our special love relationship.
Old hat, I won't be satisfied until chimpy is squealing like a pig. He is fucked.
OT, but on nightline tonight they did a story on soldiers in ward 57 in Walter Reed. AWOL went to visit them today- they showed footage of him coming out of the hospital saying how "fantastic" it was in there and how the soldiers (all amputees) couldn't wait to go back to Iraq and join their units. What a fuckhead- any normal human being would be feel terrible to see these young men with their arms and legs blown off.
I really really hate him. I've rarely been so angry.
"the Sudan did offer bin Laden to us several times but we didnt have anything to hold him on and that might piss off the French."
George to rummy;how come the paks wont get OBL?
rummy to W;well george its like this..we havent been able to get enough money to pakistan because theres none left in the coffers.Wait till the next round of tax cuts come in and we'll tell the paks were ready to get OBL.But nevermind that stuff you go on and get some rest and then we'll get you on the campaign trail.
"We did spot bin Laden on unmanned drone a few times...no, we didn't do anything about it.."
Georgie to rummy;Clinton saw how come we cant see him?
rummy;ahh dont worry OBL,he's nothin to worry your prety little head over.You just go out ther and get some rest before we get you started on the campaign trail.
"We did lob some cruise missiles, if that helps..anyway, this problem is really big. Here you go."
Georgie to rummy;How come we cant put hellfire missles on the predator?
rummy;well thats a tough one dubya,we spent all the money on your tax cuts so we have to wait untill the after the next election,now go on and get some rest so we can get you on the campaign trail.
W to rummy;What are we gonna do about n.Korea?
Rummy.gee george what ARE we gonna do?But I'll tell you what you dont worry yourself about that you just get some rest before you go out on the campaign trail.
And we go on cluelessly about our merry business.
I really really hate him. I've rarely been so angry.
You know, I don't really hate Bush so much as I hate the culture that's put him into office, the way the US has turned so far to the right.
Even if Kerry wins, we're still going to have to deal with it. If Kerry wins, we're going to see the whole get Clinton and his penis mob back in force like we've never seen before.
Sometimes I think I really do hate America.
Oh, looky here.
U.S. missiles pound targets in Afghanistan, Sudan
August 20, 1998
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Saying "there will be no sanctuary for terrorists," President Clinton on Thursday said the U.S. strikes against terrorist bases in Afghanistan and a facility in Sudan are part of "a long, ongoing struggle between freedom and fanaticism."
[...]
The president said he ordered the strike against bin Laden and his compatriots because of "compelling information they were planning additional terrorist attacks against our citizens and others with the inevitable collateral casualties and .. seeking to acquire chemical weapons and other dangerous weapons."
Anyone care to dig up what the Republicans were saying about this?
Wasn't it along the lines of Wag the Dog?
Yup...Bush is fu*ked. Did you guys read Teddy Kennedy's letter to the LATimes today?
I also think the Repukes were saying, "Its not just about the blowjob, its about the lying"
.
Golden Boy: We're not talking blowjbos anymore. We're talking national security. As in, Dick Cheney leaking Valerie Plame's name to the press to blow her cover and therefore liquidating her contacts. Did you know she was an expert in WMD proliferation?
This isn't games anymore. This isn't a hummer from some fat chick in the Oval Office. This is national security that your fuckward Dear Leader is playing politics with. This is life and death. You thugs don't understand that. Let me be blunt: People died when Cheney leaked Plame's name. You fucking un-patriotic asswipe piece of shit. I hate you. I can't fucking stand you. You don't love America, punk. You're anti-American, you piss on the Bill of Rights, you piss on our agents trying to stop nukes from gettting into the wrong hands. You piss on the grave of every soldier who was sent to Iraq to die for lies. You make me want to puke, you cheap chickenhawk pansy fuck.
You are so fucked Golden Boy. You are so, so fucked.
Funny... Clinton's advisors are willing to testify under oath and George "Personal Responsibility" Bush refuses to. Kindalazy Rice refuses to testify at all.
If Clinton had the "mandate" presented by two World Trade Center towers collapsing and 3,000 people dying, I think he'd have unleashed hell where it belonged. AND built international relationships. AND he would have truly worked to build Iraq and the middle east.
Damn! So busy looking for the W's missing from our keyboards when the Clenises left the White House, we didn't have time to listen to Clarke or anyone else!
Bush's instant karma has been a long time a'comin', but it's getting closer every day! Yippeeeeeeeeee!
I hate you. I can't fucking stand you. You don't love America, punk. You're anti-American, you piss on the Bill of Rights, you piss on our agents trying to stop nukes from gettting into the wrong hands. You piss on the grave of every soldier who was sent to Iraq to die for lies. You make me want to puke, you cheap chickenhawk pansy fuck.
That was really good 
With no charges against bin Laden, we couldn't have held him (remember that was in '95 or '96) Clinton tried to get Saudi Arabia to take him.
That went beyond really good. That was fucking fantastic. Fabulous. FANTABULOUS!!!!!
You know, I don't really hate Bush so much as I hate the culture that's put him into office, the way the US has turned so far to the right.
Sorry, after seeing his callous indifference to the wounded soldiers I do hate him. It was almost like he was exalted of something. Fucking loser. This is the man who asked how it felt to start the war in Afghanistan said "it feels good".
Desmond Tutu was on hardball tonight and he trashed bush like the garbage he is.
daniel,
Right on. They were so "anti-Clinton" they couldn't see straight. Very juvinile - and, they're the grownups????????
OT:
A little old, but I just heard about it:
CLEVELAND, Ohio (AP) -- A maintenance worker was suspended for displaying a sign with the word "traitor" on his state snowplow while helping provide security for President Bush's motorcade, officials said.
From CNN
Things get worse with Coke
Bottled tap water withdrawn after cancer scare
First, Coca-Cola's new brand of "pure" bottled water, Dasani, was revealed earlier this month to be tap water taken from the mains. Then it emerged that what the firm described as its "highly sophisticated purification process", based on Nasa spacecraft technology, was in fact reverse osmosis used in many modest domestic water purification units.
Yesterday, just when executives in charge of a £7m marketing push for the product must have felt it could get no worse, it did precisely that.
The entire UK supply of Dasani was pulled off the shelves because it has been contaminated with bromate, a cancer-causing chemical.
So now the full scale of Coke's PR disaster is clear. It goes something like this: take Thames Water from the tap in your factory in Sidcup, Kent; put it through a purification process, call it "pure" and give it a mark-up from 0.03p to 95p per half litre; in the process, add a batch of calcium chloride, containing bromide, for "taste profile"; then pump ozone through it, oxidising the bromide - which is not a problem - into bromate - which is. Finally, dispatch to the shops bottles of water containing up to twice the legal limit for bromate (10 micrograms per litre).
The Drinking Water Inspectorate confirmed yesterday it had checked the Thames water supplied to the factory and found it free of bromate. Because it is unsafe at high levels, standards for bromate in tap water are strictly monitored.
Bromide is a naturally occurring trace chemical which has a sedative effect. It is said to have been added by the British army to soldiers' tea during the second world war to dampen down their lust. But when it is oxidised into bromate it becomes "a pretty nasty carcinogen", according to David Drury, one of the principal inspectors for the DWI.
"I've checked Thames water's supply this morning and it is free of bromate," he said.
The legal limits are set to have a wide margin of safety, and the Food Standards Agency advice yesterday was that while Dasani contained illegal levels of bromate, it did not present an immediate risk to the public.
"Any increased cancer risk is likely to be small. However the levels are higher than legally permitted in the UK and present an unnecessary risk. Some consumers may chose not to drink any Dasani they purchased prior to its withdrawal given the levels of bromate in it," the FSA said.
Coca-Cola said it was voluntarily withdrawing all Dasani "to ensure that only products of the highest quality are provided to our consumers".
If you want a refund you should call freephone 0800 227711.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/
busine...1174127,00.html
Sorry, after seeing his callous indifference to the wounded soldiers I do hate him. It was almost like he was exalted of something. Fucking loser. This is the man who asked how it felt to start the war in Afghanistan said "it feels good".
Yeah. But it's not only Bush. I have a coworker (early 30s so a bit old to sign up) who's a major Bush fan.
When you talk about the wounded soldiers he says something like "so fucking what. They volunteered. More people die in car crashed than in Iraq."
The busiviks STILL have no presented their case against OBL.The tell us he did it,They scream it from the top of the flagpole on the whitehoouscow campus,but really What evidence have they shown us?I'm not about to come out and say anything tinfoil hattish,other than to say show me the money.Iraq had no money either and we bought a ticket to see the money and it wasnt there.Is there REALLY money in the OBL bank???
preznit giv me turke!
indeed.
"Bush was in office for almost a year before 9/11. "
I've said several times that the Bush Admin should have been more aggressive against terrorism from the get go. That said, the Democrats weren't doing him any favors in getting his team in place and Gore did jam transition time up a bit when he was trying to steal the election. Atrios himself linked to a story the other day that he spun as "Bush ignored bin Laden" but really intimated that the administration was working on a plan to deal w/ Al Qaeda when 9/11 oc curred. Still, you are right. Bush was in office for less than 8 mos but shares some of the responsibility.
That said, Bill Clinton, The Great Terrorist Hunter, had 8 fucking years and a shitload of missed opportunities. Hell, the Sudan wanted to just hand bin Laden over.
Here's an audio link of Clinton himself admitting it:
http://www.newsmax.com/showinsid...2002/8/12/
24124
If Teddy Kennedy's letter to the LA Times today is any indication, Kerry is going to really come out swinging when the gets back from his ski trip.
C'mon Kerry...Say it. Sharpton did... Kucinich did... You can do it.
Bush Lied. Soldiers Died. Thousands of Innocent Iraqis died. Hundreds of billions wasted instead of helping the world's needy.
Boy, little Brownshirt G sure ran away crying in a big fucking hurry, didn't he?
This is the man who asked how it felt to start the war in Afghanistan said "it feels good".
That was Iraq, not Afghanistan. I honestly think if he had whooped and said "it feels good" so soon after 9/11, even the stupidest Republicans would have hated him.
Golden Boy, let's just assume that BushCo. did nothing wrong prior to 9-11.
How about letting Osama go at Tora Bora and not securing the borders in Afghanistan?
How about flying bin Laden family members out of the country on 9-12 with no one being interviewed as to where cousin Osama's been spending his time?
How about not showing up in NYC until 9-13, shamed by the Clenis's much lauded appearance in town after an all night flight?
How about not funding the war in Afghanistan in last year's budget?
How about the fact that the Taliban are back in Afghanistan and getting stronger everyday?
How about the fact that BushCo. manipulated intelligence to serve their purposes and lied to the American people not once, not twice, not inadvertantly, but constantly over a period of months of planned duplicitous and outright mendacious warmongering?
How about the fact that BushCo. started a wholly unnecessary and distracting war in a country unrelated to the events on 9-11 based on this specious intelligence?
How about the fact that BushCo. didn't plan for the reconstruction of said invaded country AT ALL?
How about the fact that BushCo setting up camp in another Muslim country plays right into OBL's plans to accelerate a war with the West?
How about the fact that the Bush family for 80 years has been about oil, oil, oil, and we're supposed to think that neither dumbya, his diddy, or dick (Cheney) had ANY THOUGHT of war profiteering in pursuing this war?
How about the fact that BushCo. didn't secure the borders in Iraq either and so interested criminal parties could pour into a destabilized state further terrorizing Iraqis and attacking US soldiers?
How about the fact that the Clenis getting blown HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH INNOCENT PEOPLE DYING IN IRAQ FOR NO GODDAMN REASON WHATSOEVER?
F*ck off. I'm sick of the immature shit. Get over the fascination with all things Clinton and grow up. It's a hard world and this asshole--your preznit--and his puppeteers are making it harder.
Bob Kerrey's remarks were out of line. Apparently he forgot about the Cruise missile attacks and the deal with Musharaf's predecessor to do a commando raid. That deal went away when Musharaf came to power.
Kerrey also ignores the fact that the Clinton team did begin military preparations after the Cole attack.
Probably the earliest an attack could have been launched was late December. Clinton didn't want to stick Bush II the way he was stuck by Bush I in Somalia.
The "Shrödingerpod" Corollary to the Law of Republican Exceptionalism (or IOKIYAR):
shooting yourself in the foot should be fatal when that foot is in your mouth
should
Bill Clinton, The Great Terrorist Hunter, had 8 fucking years and a shitload of missed opportunities.
And "President" Tipsy McStagger got Osama exactly when???
Actually, he's never even tried, because he could give a shit. It's all about the oil and everyone knows it, and 3000 corpses in downtown Manhattan is a good start as on the Road to the Rapture, as far as the Meglomaniac with the Messiah Complex is concerned...
Old Hat... Damn, that was great.
Don't worry, though. We all know he just spouts the talking points and doesn't have any facts to back him up. He wouldn't know one if it bit him on his sorry ass.
Got a link to the Kennedy letter?
*****"The Cole is even worse, because that was an attack on a military target," he (Bob Kerrey) said. "It was military against military. It was an Islamic army against our Navy. Just because you don't have a nation-state as your adversary doesn't mean you should not consider a declaration of war."*****
I’m still waiting to hear when Bush, Rummy, Ashcroft and Condi declared war on account of the Cole, I am still waiting to hear why they actually Gave the Taliban $40 million after that and I am still waiting to hear why Rummy and Bushie were set to veto $600 million for counter-terrorism that the Dems wanted in.
And that’s not all, I am still waiting to hear why Condi couldn’t remember the briefings, why they had no Taliban policy, why Taliban were reportedly entertained in Texas by oily buddies, why Ashcroft did not list counter-terrorism as his priority, did not ask for more agents or more money and did not get the agents the warrants they requested.
.....
******The testimony could also prove uncomfortable for the commission, since Mr. Zelikow is now the executive director of the bipartisan panel.******
Oh that’s real smart, the Bushies put somebody who failed to be responsible in charge of seeing who failed to be responsible, good going.
.....
Golden boy, whoops. That "fuck off" wasn't really meant for you. I was saying that to this whole Bush apologist fantasy which holds him up to be some sort of non-buffoon whose buffoonery isn't costing thousands of lives. This is a time to stop sucking at the pipe of the partyline and looking hard at the hard facts.
Golden Boy,
The Sudan story is bullshit - you should try for some credible information. THE FACT IS THAT 9/11 DID HAPPEN on Bush's watch. take it like a grownup.
SWR, not that was Afghanistan- it was quoted in Woodward's book "Bush at War".
I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't say something similar when Operation fuck up in Iraq started too.
"Bush campaign officials said they were almost certain which themes they would be striking and what sorts of advertisements they would be showing at just about any given moment between now and June, even while acknowledging their plans could change on a dime.
"The goal is right now," said a Bush adviser, "while he's weak, while they're financially struggling, to strip him of all the good that somehow in my opinion erroneously got attached to him."
The advisers contended that that would be relatively easy to do because impressions of him are so ill-formed with many voters. "He peels like an onion," said an associate of Mr. Bush. "People aren't like, `I really believe in this guy and I'm not willing to accept that information.' They accept it very easily. With some candidates there's a hard shell. With him there's a soft skin."
... In a New York Times/CBS poll taken March 10 to 14, more than 40 percent ... said they were either undecided or did not know enough about him when asked if they had a favorable or unfavorable opinion of Mr. Kerry. "
___________
The press wants to tell the Bush/Rove narrative, not some boring old facts that show bush blew it big time pre-911, not facts showing he lied to the world and drug us to war for nothing, and diverted resources needed to fight real terrorists. Not facts showing how disasterously the occupation has been conducted, or how many more billions bush will ask for 'after' the election.
None of those facts fit the narrative. The media would prefer to give amplified coverage to smears, inuendo, know false allegations, distortions and lies, all aimed at destroying an honorable man. So the rush is on to destroy Kerry before voters can get to know and like him. The media is just licking its chops in anticipation.
Bob Kerrey's remarks were out of line. Apparently he forgot about the Cruise missile attacks and the deal with Musharaf's predecessor to do a commando raid. That deal went away when Musharaf came to power.
Kerrey also ignores the fact that the Clinton team did begin military preparations after the Cole attack.
Probably the earliest an attack could have been launched was late December. Clinton didn't want to stick Bush II the way he was stuck by Bush I in Somalia.
Cal | Email | Homepage | 03.20.04 - 1:46 am | #
Good points, I am also waiting to hear when exactly Bush, Rummy and Condi planned to declare war on behalf of the Cole, why they gave the Taliban $40 million and why they planned to veto $600 million for counter-terrorism, thank you.
And of course dear ole Ashcroft, he musta thought hookers and nekkid statues were the Taliban who had attacked the Cole, now, right .
.....
How does Golden Boy explain that his boys, after being warned, waited two months before 'beginning a 'review' of the situation, then squandered more than 5 months 'reviewing' until deciding to actually talk about the situation.
The truth is that the Bush administration felt that terrorism was a Clinton obsession. And, after all, it was ABC. The Bush foreign policy team was more concerned with "rogue" states,hence, the preoccupation with the anti-missile system.
Remember also from that period that Democrats in Congress tried to get Rumsfeld to part with some of the money for the anti-missile system to devote to couter-terrorism activities. Rumsfeld refused.
Perhaps Golden Boy would also like to explain why Bush had the FBI back off on their survielance of the bin Laden family as soon as he took office.
When you talk about the wounded soldiers he says something like "so fucking what. They volunteered. More people die in car crashed than in Iraq."
There's a nice fucking place in hell for animals like that. Karma's a bitch too. I'd like to see that little chickenhawk pussy say that to a soldier missing both his legs- and for what? a fucking war of choice?
Yeah, Golden Boy, what about all of these rumors I hear about Bush giving the all clear to fly the relatives of Osama bin Laden out of the United States on 9/13 when other people (i.e. those not related to the greatest terrorist mass murderer in history) couldn't fly at all? What about that Golden Boy? Huh? What about that, Golden Boy? It's awfully odd that the only way you could fly two days after 9/11 was if you were directly related to Osama bin Laden. Maybe I'm imagining things, but something isn't right with that.
Even weirder, I hear that the Bushes and the bin Ladens have been doing business for the past 20 years. Very strange. Small world, huh?
The sworn testimony from the high-ranking Clinton administration officials — including Secretary of State Madeleine K. Albright, Defense Secretary William S. Cohen and Samuel R. Berger, Mr. Clinton's national security adviser — is scheduled for Tuesday and Wednesday.
Sandy and Madeleine I expect will be their robust, stalwart selves, Cohen I am concerned could be either wishy washy, or waffly or try to damage Clinton in some back handed way, he has been kinda weird lately.
.....
To top it off, when asked what Americans could do to help, Bush's response was,
"Go out and buy something".
The root causes of 9-11, as explained by Shrub?
According to George, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the US military machine fucking up Islamic countries with military invasions, coups-installing-brutal dictators so they could steal their oil. No, according to Shrub, its because, "They hate us for our freedoms."
John Kerry will be a real president.
Shrub is an egotistical, lying, blueblood-fuck-up-C-minus-wannabe without a shred of human compassion. He's the guy who got us into this hellish nightmare to begin with, and he should be impeached and sent up river to the Hague.
Golden Boy, what are your thoughts on that Enron oil pipeline that was supposed to be built through Afghanistan?
"This isn't games anymore. This isn't a hummer from some fat chick in the Oval Office. This is national security that your fuckward Dear Leader is playing politics with."
While YOUR dear leader was in the White House GETTING hummers, he SHOULD have been dealing with these problems, asshole. Bush now has to clean up The Great Terrorist Hunter's messes.
"As in, Dick Cheney leaking Valerie Plame's name to the press to blow her cover and therefore liquidating her contacts. Did you know she was an expert in WMD proliferation?"
You do have evidence that it was Cheney,right? right? I love how you liberals suddenly want to string up the traitors. This, from the bunch that still defends Alger Hiss and the Rosenbergs.
"This is life and death. You thugs don't understand that. Let me be blunt: People died when Cheney leaked Plame's name. You fucking un-patriotic asswipe piece of shit. I hate you. I can't fucking stand you. You don't love America, punk. You're anti-American, you piss on the Bill of Rights, you piss on our agents trying to stop nukes from gettting into the wrong hands. You piss on the grave of every soldier who was sent to Iraq to die for lies. You make me want to puke, you cheap chickenhawk pansy fuck."
Actually, I do none of those things. Why am I a chickenhawk anyway? By your logic, so is John Kerry who actually voted to use force. By your measure, he has far more blood on his hands than me.
Is Clinton a chickenhawk? He sent our troops to their unnecessary deaths in Somalia. He intervened in the Balkans and Kosovo. What was his war record again?
I'm happy you hate me. It means I'm on the right side when scum like you spew so much bile in my direction.
Teddy Kennedy
Sorry, registration seems to be required at the LA Times site.
Here are some bits:
Bush's Distortions Misled Congress in Its War Vote
by Edward M. Kennedy
...America went to war in a dishonest way that alienated key allies, divided and weakened the United Nations, outraged the world community, made us more hated in the world and made the war on terrorism more difficult to win.
The decision on war or peace is the most important decision any president ever makes. The prime minister of Spain paid a high price Sunday for supporting us in the war, and for misleading the Spanish people. President Bush is likely to pay a similar high price in November.
Senior Clinton administration officials called to testify next week before the independent commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks say they are prepared to detail how they repeatedly warned their Bush administration counterparts in late 2000 that Al Qaeda posed the worst security threat facing the nation — and how the new administration was slow to act.
They said the warnings were delivered in urgent post-election intelligence briefings in December 2000 and January 2001 for Condoleezza Rice, who became Mr. Bush's national security adviser; Stephen Hadley, now Ms. Rice's deputy; and Philip D. Zelikow, a member of the Bush transition team, among others.
About time too.
.....
When you talk about the wounded soldiers he says something like "so fucking what. They volunteered. More people die in car crashed than in Iraq."
More and more, my first impulse when dealing with wingnuts is to pick up an axe and start swinging.
Cohen’s creds were pretty damaged in his flip flop over Wes Clark.
.....
Another interesting piece of this article is the role of Condoleeza Rice.
In the fall of 2001 Sandy Berger responded to right-wing attacks trying to blame Clinton, by pointing out that his NSC had told Rice and co. that terrorism would be the top priority. Rice responded by saying that she couldn't recall any such warnings during transition.
The evidence of course was overwhelming against her. Too many witnesses to the contrary.
We've never had a bigger liar as NSC chief than Condoleeza Rice. She makes Henry Kissinger look like a straight shooter.
While YOUR dear --
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzz...
End of story.
Why am I a chickenhawk anyway? By your logic, so is John Kerry who actually voted to use force.
You're a chickenhawk because your a fat sack of pus sitting at a computer egging other people on to die on your behalf in Iraq. You've never served in the armed forces.
By the way, John Kerry actually saw combat (as in, he was shot at with machine guns) in Vietnam and was decorated for valor and bravery, while George Bush was going AWOL for his huge cocaine and drinking habits during his unfulfilled stint in the Champagne Unit at the TANG, you worthless piece of dogshit.
What's all this noise I hear about George Bush paying for an illegal abortion in 1970?
Basically any inquiry on 9.11 just send the Bush tailspin, tailspinning even further and faster down.
.....
No, Dave, don't snooze on this obese sack of, let me bitchslap this little pansy around a little...hang on...
Why am I a chickenhawk anyway? By your logic, so is John Kerry who actually voted to use force...
Is Clinton a chickenhawk? He sent our troops to their unnecessary deaths in Somalia. He intervened in the Balkans and Kosovo. What was his war record again?
I'm sick of this sort of argument, so I'll speak slowly and try and explain once and for all...
John Kerry is not a chickenhawk. John Kerry has seen the face of war. This immediately disqualifies him.
Clinton is not a chickenhawk. While having never served in the military, he also didn't use the armed forces like his own personal set of green plastic soldiers with the boards attached to their feet.
Now: Bush, Cheney, Delay, et al not only actively avoided military service, but also run around pretending like war is a swell thing. Chickenhawks.
Meanwhile, add this to the never-ending list of things the moronic brownshirt fucks can start apologizing for any time now:
U.S. drops all charges against Muslim chaplain
MIAMI, Florida (CNN) -- All charges against Army Muslim chaplain James Yee -- who was initially accused of espionage at the terrorist detention camp at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba -- have been dropped, the U.S. Army said Friday.
Yee had faced charges related to the alleged mishandling of classified information at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
But after extensive review, U.S. Army Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller, the commander of Joint Task Force Guantanamo, decided to stop pursuing the matter.
"Citing national security concerns that would arise from the release of the evidence, Miller decided to drop these charges," the Army said in a statement. "Miller made his decision after consultation with government lawyers and intelligence officials."
Yee had proposed to resign from the Army if the military would end its effort to prosecute him. Under that proposal, Yee said he would agree to take a polygraph and undergo a national security debriefing for up to 30 days. He also sought immunity from future charges.
The government rejected the offer.
"Although Miller considered Yee's offer to undergo a debriefing in exchange for the government dropping the charges, granting him immunity and supporting his resignation, relevant law enforcement agencies could not support Yee's request for immunity," the Army statement said.
Yee, a West Point graduate and Army captain, had been serving as a chaplain for the detainees at Guantanamo Bay when he was arrested in September and originally accused of espionage. He was jailed for 76 days.
The formal charges were reduced to mishandling classified information, and Army prosecutors never introduced any evidence on what that was. They delayed Yee's preliminary hearing five times.
The only testimony about what Yee may have done wrong came from a U.S. Customs agent, who said Yee was carrying lists with names of detainees and interrogators when he arrived in Florida on leave in September. The agent searched Yee's belongings on a tip from military investigators.
The Army had added four minor charges, mainly involving adultery and pornography, at the time it filed the reduced accusations of mishandling classified information.
In Friday's announcement, Miller said Yee would be offered nonjudicial punishment for the allegations of adultery and pornography.
Such punishment would be given out in an Article 15 proceeding, the military's way of dealing with minor violations. The penalties would be minor and might consist of duty restriction or a temporary pay cut.
Yee would then be allowed to return to his home station in Fort Lewis, Washington.
These fucking losers are never right about anything, are they?
While YOUR dear leader was in the White House GETTING hummers, he SHOULD have been dealing with these problems, asshole. Bush now has to clean up The Great Terrorist Hunter's messes.
Yeah ol' Retarded George sure was addressing the Terrorism Issue when he took that monthlong vacation to clear brush from his fake "ranch" in "Texas." Holy shit! Did you hear that George Bush was born in Connecticutt and raised in Maine?
Anyway, I really loved how Retarded George ran like the scared chickenhawk pussy he is to Oklahoma and phoned in some fake "threats" on AF1 after 9/11. It took him how many days to sack up and be a man before he made an appearance at the WTC site?
And have you seen that video when Andy Card told Bush that "The United States is under attack" and he just sat there like the clueless Down's Syndrome baby he is for five minutes reading a children's book while 3,000 souls were incinerated in New York?
Eat shit and die, pig.
She makes Henry Kissinger look like a straight shooter.
Oooh...
Savage, but accurate.
Well done!
Re: More people die in car crashed than in Iraq.
Sorry, I didn't see the original in this subthread. What is that? A pretty weak attempt to try to put things into "perspective" when the body count in the terra' incident that started all this sh*t was much smaller than either number. Okay then, let's do use motor vehicle fatalities to put the whole war on terror into perspective.
1 unnatural death is 1 death to many.
Another interesting piece of this article is the role of Condoleeza Rice.
In the fall of 2001 Sandy Berger responded to right-wing attacks trying to blame Clinton, by pointing out that his NSC had told Rice and co. that terrorism would be the top priority. Rice responded by saying that she couldn't recall any such warnings during transition.
The evidence of course was overwhelming against her. Too many witnesses to the contrary.
We've never had a bigger liar as NSC chief than Condoleeza Rice. She makes Henry Kissinger look like a straight shooter.
Cal | Email | Homepage | 03.20.04 - 2:05 am | #
And that’s saying something, let’s think about Salvador Allende for a minute and let’s think about the kind of person who would reportedly say to an associate, you ought to topple one of those countries to set an example.
Briefings forgotten, memos supposedly never seen but buried in some basement, later claimed to have been forgotten as well, do we really need this kind of lackadaisical response in an NSA?
In addition to which, as usual, now the story supposedly is that the briefings are not in dispute, oh, they aren’t, well, thanks for sharing folks
The White House does not dispute that intelligence briefings about the Qaeda threat occurred during the transition, and the commission has received extensive notes and other documentation from the White House and Clinton administration officials about what was discussed.
But the bottom line is that it keeps coming back to Condi’s boss, the most inept and bungling incumbent in the White House in recent history.
.....
ae: How about the fact that BushCo. didn't plan for the reconstruction of said invaded country AT ALL?
Not exactly. Jay Garner said he thought the State Department had a sound plan. The Bushies just didn't want to use it.
.
Has anyone seen this from the guardian?
"The US national security adviser Condoleezza Rice is to address the News Corporation thinktank involving Rupert Murdoch's most senior newspaper executives from the UK, US and Australia."
Plenty of time for rupert and Faux news but wont talk to the American public via the 9/11 commision.Pity,and I was just getting to like the bitch.NOT!
Good reminder dave, the prosecution of Captain Yee was a travesty and they have now dropped the charges.
.....
Man, that's some damgud bitchslapping, OH...
That said, Bill Clinton, The Great Terrorist Hunter, had 8 fucking years and a shitload of missed opportunities. Hell, the Sudan wanted to just hand bin Laden over.
Here's an audio link of Clinton himself admitting it:
Notice when NEWSMAX stopped giving dates for bin Laden's offered capture? Seems around the time of, oh, the blow-job the wingers in Congress were hounding him about, ya know, the "Blow-job That Will Live In Infamy"? Bin Laden hadn't directly been implicated until 98 with the bombings in Kenya although he had expressed his desire to attack the US prior. You can't arrest anyone for hating America or threntening it. (Maybe you can now.) How can Clinton, although he tried and got, "WAG THE DOG, WAG THE DOG, WAG THE DOG" have attacked a country in the midst of the relentless unfounded attacks by the right-wing during those 8 years if it wouldn't have been successful and might have turned out disastrous? Clinton was unable to perform as a president because of the efforts of those like you who enabled the republican party. Kenneth Starr had the FBI in Japan looking for witnesses to blow-jobs of Clinton in 98, for chrissakes! During the run-up to 911, Ashcroft had the FBI was only busily investigating prostitution in New Orleans. Prostitution in New Orleans! Ashcroft proposed reducing funding for the FBI prior to 911. Your party allowed 911 because you and other like you, apparently were more interested in somebody else having sex than protecting the American people. You and others like you have shown absolutely no concern even for the troops now serving in this insane war. I blame you and others like you for every one of those that day who jumped to their deaths from the WTC because of your obsession with Clinton's dick. And one day, the American people will know that. We are going to make sure of it. And the truth is coming out now.
Hey, which president was it who made the decision to get involved in Somalia, anyway?
Was it really Clinton?
Old Hat, tell him how you really feel.
And then tell him some more.
Rice denied the briefing in the fall of 2001. Apparently her memory has improved with age.
Well, let's see...
While bin Laden wasn't captured, several of the people who actually committed the 1993 Somalia bombings, as well as the 1998 embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya were on trial by January 3, 2001. While Clinton was still President. That's a lot more than doing nothing.
Fighting terrorism is a lot like fighting organized crime. Yeah, you want the capos, but you start with the little guys and work your way up the chain. You work each of those links every way you possibly can until you can take down the capo. If you go for the capo right off and DON'T take him out, the chain binds YOU. When you fail, you only embolden his minions, and make the capo seem all the more invincible. He becomes even more dangerous then, willing to take more chances, instill more fear. You have to be patient, thorough and persistent when going after these creeps, because one wrong move doesn't set you back a day or a month, but possibly decades.
Golden Boy: About Dick Cheney leaking Plame's name. My sister works in Washington D.C. and it's an open secret in that town that Scooter Libby leaked her name to the press and Rove picked up as soon as the deed was done (feloniously, I might add, with a 10 year prison sentence as the penalty). And I know as well as you, you chickenhawk pansy fuck that Scooter Libby wouldn't dare do something as audacious as that without the go ahead from his motherfucking boss.
Republicans soft on terror.
"You're a chickenhawk because your a fat sack of pus sitting at a computer egging other people on to die on your behalf in Iraq. You've never served in the armed forces. "
You dont know jack shit about me, fucker. I was a medic in the first Gulf War. Fuck you.
"Clinton is not a chickenhawk. While having never served in the military, he also didn't use the armed forces like his own personal set of green plastic soldiers with the boards attached to their feet."
Yo, we still have troops in the Balkans. Can ANY of you libs tell me how the Balkans were worth the price of our soldiers' lives??? You clowns are moving the goalposts back and forth on the "Chickenhawk" definition to keep your boy out of the club. Bill Clinton is famous for his letter stating how he "loathed the military." His tune changed a little when he tried to claim he was on active duty and thus unable to testify in the Paula Jones scandal.
Good night all. Its late and I dont have the time tonight to respond to your worn out cliches, lies and conspiracy theories.
Old Hat gives good screed.
Everyone, sorry if I'm being violent/vulgar/misogynistic, it's just that these worthless chickenhawk assholes make me really mad.
Can ANY of you libs tell me how the Balkans were worth the price of our soldiers' lives???
That is really funny.
I suppose you don't know the US death total for the Balkans under Clinton?
I do! I do!
Someone else want to tell this gobshite?
Don't apologize to us. We're writing letters of endorsement for you to the Kerry Campaign.
I suppose you don't know the US death total for the Balkans under Clinton?
I do! I do!
Someone else want to tell this gobshite?
Umm.. Less than 1?
You dont know jack shit about me, fucker. I was a medic in the first Gulf War. Fuck you.
No. You weren't. You were eating Cheetos and playing Doom II on your Dell, fatty. Stop lying.
Good night all. Its late and I dont have the time tonight to respond to your worn out cliches, lies and conspiracy theories.
Game. Set. Match.
[Jim Rome]Good night now! Show me your lightning bolt[/Jim Rome]
Golden Boy, I know you're reading this. Let me say that you just got sonned like the toy you are. Come back real soon, y'hear? It's fun destroying you and your pathetic arguments.
ae: How about the fact that BushCo. didn't plan for the reconstruction of said invaded country AT ALL?
Not exactly. Jay Garner said he thought the State Department had a sound plan. The Bushies just didn't want to use it.
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Email | Homepage | 03.20.04 - 2:16 am | #
Garner was a borderline choice but he still had some decent creds becoz he helped the Kurds, however his signing of some letter made him suspect in the region.
However, putting Bungling Bremer in there instead of Garner was the real ballistic error, they threw out any kind of plan, scared everyone with their lack of consultation and their foot-dragging over autonomy, busted around the country with the stupidest plan of Big Footprint and now finally, with the elections looming they are finally trying to get a positive trajectory.
However, without consensus from the region, the Iraqis, religious Shia and Kurds and without the UN and allies signing on, the Bushies still have Bupkes.
.....
The more pressure Bushie is under for 9.11, the more it looks like he will be scrambling to try to come to some accomodation with the folks in the region, with the Iraqi constituent groups and with the UN allies to try to present some kind of positive trajectory.
.....
Jeffraham, right on. I remember that now. That was back when Colin Powell thought he should actually do his job.
Y'all remember when Colin was on the outs with BushCo. because he wouldn't play along and then he went to the UN with that godawful "Look! Here's a shed and it has a truck next to it" speech, thus "proving" Hussein had stockpiles of chemical weapons? What a sick shill.
Looks like Golden Boy's off to the ER for a few stitches in his anus!
.
You clowns are moving the goalposts back and forth...
WE keep moving the goalposts around?
Bill Clinton is famous for his letter stating how he "loathed the military." His tune changed a little when he tried to claim he was on active duty and thus unable to testify in the Paula Jones scandal.
Tell me, what color is the sky in your world?
Good night all. Its late and I dont have the time tonight to respond to your worn out cliches, lies and conspiracy theories.
Translation: Herr Karl!!! Liberals aren't going away!!! Need fresh talking points!!!!
You dont know jack shit about me, fucker. I was a medic in the first Gulf War. Fuck you.
No. You weren't. You were eating Cheetos and playing Doom II on your Dell, fatty. Stop lying.
OUCH!!
Old Hat,
Ditto (sorry about that).
Thersites,
I'm thinking.............0.
"I suppose you don't know the US death total for the Balkans under Clinton?"
The point, douchebag, is that he sent troops into harm's way. They are still there. Yet, he didn't serve and he even scammed his way out of the draft by signing up for ROTC then ditching out on it and heading to England.
I was in the military, Ive never sent anyone to harm's way. Clinton wasnt and did yet he isnt a chickenhawk but I am. You liberals are so fucking laughable in your inconsistency.
I still want to know why getting those arrests and convictions and getting a handle on what they were dealing with and how to respond and how to investigate and where to look--from scratch, just about... My gawd, I'm amazed Clinton got as much done as he did while also dealing with Kosovo and brokering some degree of peace in Israel/Palestine and hey, he helped stop the Christians from killing each other over in Northern Ireland, and having to defend himself from a right-wing slime machine. And he was still getting his knob polished too. No wonder they're so afraid of the mighty Clenis.
OH, the trolls are getting more and more tedious because Bushie’s campaign is spiralling into a tailspin .
.....
I thought you said you were eating Cheetos and playing Doom II on your Dell, fatty?
Old Hat:
Good job sir. So good in fact it looks like you've roused Golden Bore from his slumber...
Golden Boy sez:
The point, douchebag, is that he sent troops into--
Heeeeeyyyyyy, it's Golden Boy! I thought you dropped like a sleeping pill when I knocked your light out!
What gives, fatty?
Golden Boy sez:
The point, douchebag, is that he sent troops into--
Heeeeeyyyyyy, it's Golden Boy! I thought you dropped like a sleeping pill when I knocked your light out!
What gives, fatty?
The point, douchebag, is that he sent troops into harm's way.
Wait, I thought us liberals were the ones moving the goalposts, fuckface. You asked how the Balkans were worth soldiers lives. Nothing about harms way.
You liberals are so fucking laughable in your inconsistency.
Projection, thy name is conservatism.
I thought you were going away?
This is their last desperate strategy, they know they can’t win against Kerry Clark, genuine American war heroes, both, they want to make it as if 2004 is about Bush vs Clinton .
.....
IOKIYAR!
Speaking of the Balkans...What the heck is going on there these days?
Is it possible Rover told the media to go focus on some anecdotal events, to make Clinton's liberation look like it is crumbling? I don't know...but it seems strange that all these things are happening now that Bush is behind the 8-ball.
Troubled Kosovo
What next...is Bush going to give the leader of Kosovo an ultimatum and have the US military whisk him off to the Central African Republic... and then recognize a new Kosovo government led by some guy from Florida?
You're the one for me, Fatty...
[channelling Mozza]
Sorry...
The Sudanese never offered OBL to the US, only to Saudi Arabia.
"The Sudanese offered to arrest Bin Laden and extradite him to Saudi Arabia or, barring that, to "baby-sit" him--monitoring all his activities and associates.
But Saudi officials didn't want their home-grown terrorist back where he might plot to overthrow them.
In May 1996, the Sudanese capitulated to U.S. pressure and asked Bin Laden to leave, despite their feeling that he could be monitored better in Sudan than elsewhere."
Mansoor Ijaz, in his own words. By the way, he has "oil interests" in the Sudan, whatever that means.
Oil, oil, everywhere.
Golden Boy: Will you show me your lightning bolt?
No?
Good night now!
Old Hat: 2 jillion and three
Golden Boy: 0
Every time Kerry comes up and makes his robust, stalwart affirmations and his robust, stalwart declarations, it sends shivers through the Bushies, because they know we are calm, we are stalwart and we are determined to bounce their sorry, inept tuchas all the way back to the hokey palokey ranch in Waco, Texas and then we can say Mission Accomplished, thank you and start restoring American honor and American leadership at home and overseas .
......
Its late and I dont have the time...
Translated from wingnutese: Mommy!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!
Old Hat: 2 jillion and three
Golden Boy: 0
He should go back to eating Cheetos and playing Doom II on his Dell.
AT LAST
YEE FREED
alleged sometime bottom-viewer, Ho-Lee-stic style spy and inscrutable Chinaman, Army Caplain Captain Yee, out!
Old Hat:
I wonder what shampoo Golden Boy uses.
It's got be powerful stuff to get rid of all the santorum stuck to his head, what with him repeatedly jamming his fat head up his arse.
*does some re-reading*
Sweet Jesus Goddamn, Old Hat, you ruled this thread. Got there earlier and better than me every time.
Do you offer lessons? Seriously.
No apologies, anybody. We're all on the same side. If you misspell something, we can generally figure out what you meant.
I think Richard Clarke's book and his book tour are going to be worth a better than a million dollars' worth of paid advertising.
Goddamn it, the very day we were attacked Rummy wanted to bomb Iraq! What sense is there in that but the need to project power? Kaboom! Look how strong we are! Take that, bad guys!
How many innocents have been executed for murder just because somebody had to hang?
Wait, dave:
It's near the end
and I just don't have the time
and I'm wasted and I
Can't find my way home
Just checking in after some chores.
Old Hat, Mine is off to you!!!
And the rest, too. God Bless You!!!
Listen to the Boy whine!! Is he claiming he was in Gulf W1 tonite?
Still got those desert BVD's in your closet, Golden? What else you got in there?
The best diet, if you must feed trolls, is their own words, they always choke on 'em.
The point, douchebag...
The point, Mr. Massengill, is on the top of your wee little cranium.
they're still there
Then by God! get on the horn to the guy who's been responsible for them for the past three years, & bring our brave lads home!
Sigh... we can't even get half-bright trolls anymore...
Alright, I got to get some Dave-type "Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz" right now.
Thanks for the support. It was fun eating trolls.
Peace out to my Atrios friends.
BEAT BUSH!
Speaking of Chicken Hawks, let's go back a few weeks and see what King Fecal Midas said to Timmeh about Vietnam
Russert: Were you favor of the war in Vietnam?
President Bush: I supported my government. I did. And would have gone had my unit been called up, by the way.
Russert: But you didn't volunteer or enlist to go.
President Bush: No, I didn't. You're right. I served. I flew fighters and enjoyed it, and provided a service to our country. In those days we had what was called "air defense command," and it was a part of the air defense command system.
Golden Boy: Too easy to eat by half.
Harder monkeys, please.
Regarding that ole chestnut about the so-called Sudanese and UBL, folks, I don’t know about you all folks, but for me, I would sooner spend my savings on a nice bridge they tell me is on sale in Brooklyn than believe something that Turabi dude said, just my personal opinion, thank you .
.....
Goddamn it, the very day we were attacked Rummy wanted to bomb Iraq!
But I have been thinking that even attacking Afghanistan might have been a big mistake, even if executed "properly". It will forever look like vengence rather than justice.
Justice would have been served if the US took the time and leaned on the Taleban to hand over OBL. With the entire world against them...eventually they would have had to. Then, the US could have gone after the Taleban leaders for harboring him in the first place. No collateral damage. No cycle of violence.
Does anyone doubt that Dubya might be a better president, or at least not so anxious to go AWOL to his ranch, if he was getting a little on the side?
What was the line from "Good Morning Vietnam" - the white person most in need of a blowjob? Something like that.
I think the deaths of tens of thousands of conscripts and civilians would freight my conscience more than porking the odd groupie, though lacking bombs and groupies I couldn't be sure.
I've read in several places - the main one that sticks out in my mind is Franken's new book - that the much-discussed "Sudan offer" didn't come from the Sudanese government proper, but from some high roller in the country. The Clinton people studied it and decided it was bupkiss. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, but the claim that Clinton totally ignored terrorism during his eight years is patently false.
And besides, unless it went back to 1996 and no one told me, Clinton's not the cat running for "re-election". And if it is 1996, I need to make a note to avoid the fuck out of a certain girl who's gonna screw up my life but good.
From 3.19.04
Statement from John Kerry on One Year Anniversary of Invasion of Iraq
“Today marks the one year anniversary of the invasion of Iraq. It is an important day to recognize the courage and enormous skill of the United States military. Our men and women in uniform are the best and the brightest the nation has to offer, and their efforts to defend Democracy should be honored each and every day. We also must remember those that have given their lives in the fight for freedom.
“Before the war started, I repeatedly called on the President to build a genuine coalition to reduce the military and financial burden on the United States, to go to war only as a last resort, and to have a plan to win the peace. I voted to give him the authority to go to war only when he promised me and other members in Congress that he would do these things. He broke those promises.
“He misled the American people in his own State of the Union Address about Saddam’s nuclear program and WMD’s, and refused – and continues to refuse – to level with the American people about the cost of the war. Simply put, this President didn't tell the truth about the war from the beginning. And our country is paying the price.
“It's time for George Bush to start being consistent on Iraq. It's time for him to finally find the right policy for Iraq. It's time to take the targets off the backs of U.S. soldiers, reduce the burden on America’s taxpayers, and finish the job in Iraq.”
Thank you, John Kerry, we agree, rock on!
.
........
Shit. dave beat us (Yee story). We should sleep more.
*ahem*
sssssssssssSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
no, that's not it...
Friends, it seems to me that this sort of relentlessly informed unity is what the Dems are going to need in this upcoming (s)election. Everyone here is so kick ass; let's please make sure this translates into real world votes and changed and opened minds. I truly cannot have these same conversations a year from now. I want to go back to being pissed that someone is such a moderate. I just can't believe how mad I used to be at the Clenis. Pah!
Anonymous, the Taliban would never have capitulated, they are not going to capitulate now, the only strategy that will work is the one the troops are doing, topple them and then stay around with a modest footprint in the neighborhood and offer help to the local folks to keep them at bay and hold them off.
.....
There's that statement that raises my hackles: we gained nothing by getting involved in the Balkans. Some senator said that, too; believe it was Trent Lott. Yet, this is the same ideological bunch that claims we went into Iraq to "free them from tyranny, no it was NOT about WMD's".
Good grief...
ae, people are highly motivated to bounce Bushie’s sorry tuchas all the way back to Waco, Texas.
Our cause is just, our goals are steady, our resolve is firm .
We are so gonna rock them .
.....
Friendly anonymous, couldn't you at least trouble yourself to put something in the "name" field? At times I would just put the last phrase of my post there.
My sister, older and harder than I, was also unhappy about Afghanistan. I'm not sure either of you was wrong. Some accounts suggest that the Taliban was open to accommodation. Dunno. The results to date leave a lot to be desired, and the prospects from this point don't seem to be improving.
If the best we can expect from a Kerry presidency is that things would get worse more slowly, we could count that a considerable improvement.
OK, John Kerry...That's all well and good. But you're in the Senate...What's the Senate supposed to do when the (p)Resident does these things?
I want assurance that John Kerry is aware that what Bush has done is criminal and that John Kerry thinks Bush must be held accountable, in the interest of international justice.
Anything less and I don't know what to think of Kerry's vote to authorize Bush's invasion of Iraq.
MinnieB9, that Kerry quote hit the spot. Thanks.
The Senate vote authorized the forces that threatened Iraq. Blix conceded that Hussein would likely not have been cooperative without that threat.
The Senate voted for inspection, not invasion.
...topple them and then stay around with a modest footprint in the neighborhood and offer help to the local folks to keep them at bay and hold them off.
--MinnieB9
Hmmm...The Democratic Party surely is getting to be a big tent. Though I'm thinking that a candidate a former Clark supporters can dig, is probably not a candidate whose foreign policy I'll find very palatable. I was starting to worry about that.
The Senate voted for inspection, not invasion.
--bad jim
If this interpretation gets to be widely accepted, then good news for Kerry, and impeachment is a slam dunk. What are we waiting for?
The Senate voted for inspection, not invasion.
That's excellent. Every Democrat we can get on TV needs to be repeating that over and over and over again. It's short, it gets the point across, it's something people can remember...the perfect sound bite.
BTW,
The UN Charter views both invasion and threat of invasion the same way... an aggressive act.
Thanks, MinnieB9! Keep up the good work. See y'all tomorrow. Good night, don't let the bedrepugs bite!
"You're a chickenhawk because your a fat sack of pus sitting at a computer egging other people on to die on your behalf in Iraq. You've never served in the armed forces. "
You dont know jack shit about me, fucker. I was a medic in the first Gulf War. Fuck you.
GoldenBoy
GOOD GOD!!!! You're a doctor!!! ... One doctor to another, you should be a smarter troll than this.
I can't believe these idiots didn't understand why we were in the Balkans. Admittedly, they've been slugging it out with each other for over 500 years, but, geez, you do NOT let those hatreds bubble over into full-scale chaos throughout Europe. They went down that path once before. Almost an entire generation of Europeans were wiped out for it.
My Ex was in Bosnia for a while and called me from there. Not his s.o. Me. I guess because I had been in the military and I could handle what he would tell me. And it wasn't pleasant. He was one of the people who found a few of those mass graves. He saw things that no human needs to see happening to other humans. He knew what it was to walk in fear through those streets, like the people there did, every single day.
If this interpretation gets to be widely accepted, then good news for Kerry, and impeachment is a slam dunk. What are we waiting for?
Good question. If the DNC or the Kerry campaign has anybody monitoring this blog (and they better), y'all need to get on this soon. We can make this meme stick if we try.
You’re welcome, bad Jim, I liked the quote too.
Excellent point BTW about the Senate vote, it was a very sober, considered and appropriate vote for credible force and for making Saddam comply, I agree it was the appropriate call to make. .
Bush has only himself to hold accountable for the time and manner of his bungling and bamboozling, there is a good chance to remove dictators if the major allies are on board and even if we did have to use force, if we had had an overwhelming consensus, it would have been much less traumatic and more organized that way.
We could have been facing a very different trajectory had Bushie utilized the resolution the way it was intended and brought all the allies on board.
.....
And the fact that WE didn't actually sell Milosevic the weapons that caused those mass graves makes our intervention in Bosnia just a wee bit more credible.
From:
Rand Beers, John Kerry’s homeland security advisor:
George Bush may have declared “Mission Accomplished,” ten months ago, but yesterday’s horrific bombing in Iraq shows that American soldiers and Iraqis are still very much in harm’s way. But while Baghdad was bombed, Dick Cheney emerged from his bunker to engage in partisan attacks. It’s time for the President, the Vice-President, and the Secretary of State to stop playing politics with national security. We need to fix their failed go-it-alone policy that is making Iraq more dangerous for our soldiers and harder for them to secure the peace.
.....
And besides, unless it went back to 1996 and no one told me, Clinton's not the cat running for "re-election". And if it is 1996, I need to make a note to avoid the fuck out of a certain girl who's gonna screw up my life but good.
Reverend Backslider
See, I'm like you although I'm gay and you're straight. I don't care about anyone's sex life but my own.
But the repugs are obsessed with anyone having sex.
From:
Rand Beers, John Kerry’s homeland security advisor:
George Bush may have declared “Mission Accomplished,” ten months ago, but yesterday’s horrific bombing in Iraq shows that American soldiers and Iraqis are still very much in harm’s way. But while Baghdad was bombed, Dick Cheney emerged from his bunker to engage in partisan attacks. It’s time for the President, the Vice-President, and the Secretary of State to stop playing politics with national security. We need to fix their failed go-it-alone policy that is making Iraq more dangerous for our soldiers and harder for them to secure the peace.
.....
MinnieB9
He is starting to sound like a real National Security Advisor isn't he?
Nads--He was a medic, not a doctor.
LJ,
I got a good friend who's a forensic archeologist. For y'all what don't know, it means he digs up mass graves to figure out just how the bodies got there. He went to Bosnia and he's passionate about seeing them that caused that slaughter meet justice. When one of Slobodon's goons was convicted recently of mass murder - I forgot which one, off the top of my head - he and I got good and drunk in celebration.
He was going to go to Iraq just after Bush The Less declared "Mission Accomplished (Sorta)", but his sister - another good friend and her brother's always trying to get me to ask her out - talked him out of it. The people who think we had nothing to gain by getting involved in the Balkans disgust me. Yet, they're the same ones who swallow hook, line and sinker any lie about "liberation" the Bushistas spew. Dirty pigfuckers, the lot.
Minnie, that is one kick-ass statement from Beers.
Sex is the most private thing. Even monkeys hide together doing it. But the repugs bring it up constantly as a wedge-issue for political and personal issues.
"Nads--He was a medic, not a doctor."
Naw, he was just a fatfuck who played Doom2.
tragically OT
Anyone here understand how Thos. Hobbes' Leviathan, the biggest valentine to Big Government ever written, got snagged by the Norquista Quasi-Anarchists as a "proof" against Big Government? The way it's always been explained to us, and the way we read it, it says pretty clearly, "People are so naughty we need government to protect us from ourselves." Somehow this same book gets used by wingnuts on the Principle-Agent problem. What is the missing link?
Anon, If Kerry does nothing, nothing else- he will clean house. Rummy, Wolfy, Condi, of course Cheney, ass croft, and Kwiatowski (sp?) knows how many others. There's tens, maybe hundreds of neocon political hacks in the Pentagon, and taking over State, and CIA, they are political apointees and will go! Many to jail, too. Don't you want to see that? (I'm so tired I'm gettin punchy) That alone will work a miracle. And they're all guaranteed to go, just in the normal handoff- in this case he can wipe them all out, at his pleasure. God only knows what Nader will do.
Everyone knows that with a Rethug House the only impeachment that is gonna happen is at the polling booths in November 2004 when we bounce Bushie’s sorry inept butt all the way back to Waco, Texas, and then we will say Mission Accomplished thank you. .
.....
ha ha, Maybe those chimps that hide are hiding from repug chimps. There is a lot of primate psychology with all this. Repugs operate on a more primitive level...
Rev B:
I think what made the horror there hit home for me about how terrible things must have been in Bosnia, what made that honest-to-goodness-real to me, was when my ex, whom I often call the "selfish control freak" broke down in tears when he was talking to me about it. This guy didn't cry over anything. Never a tear. But he was sobbing on the phone because he had seen so much horrible shit there and he'd had no one to tell it to.
I'm glad he's someone else's problem now. I don't know how I'd handle living with someone with Bosnia in his memory banks.
cornfed hick, LJ, absolutely, Rand Beers rocks! .
.....
and then we will say Mission Accomplished thank you.
--MinnieB9
No, that shouldn't be the end of it. If that's all the justice we get by supporting the Democrats, then count me out.
Personally, I think the Senate vote was bad. By now it's clear that the entire focus on Iraq was bogus. It was a situation that needed clearing up; people were dying because of the sanctions.
More people were probably dying of AIDS in southern Africa, and you don't have to look far to find excessive mortality (bees? frogs? fish? birds?) so we can probably agree that we would have had different priorities.
Given the circumstances, though, Kerry probably couldn't have gotten to contend for the presidency if he'd voted against threatening Iraq. You have to play the hand you're dealt.
"I'm glad he's someone else's problem now. I don't know how I'd handle living with someone with Bosnia in his memory banks."
What about a Doom2 veteran? Doom2 was pretty intense! Just ask the fatfuck.
Mooser, getting Bush’s sorry tuchas busted all the way back to Waco will be the best kind of house-cleaning of all .
But I agree, getting rid of all the ancillary others will be a huge relief also .
.....
Count me out too, or just give me a spankin'. I been a baaaaad boy.
LJ,
Yeah. I dig what you're saying. I see it in my buddy's eyes when he talks about his time there. just like I see it in my old man's eyes when Vietnam comes up. When my friend and I discuss politics - he's a centrist to my radical liberal - I've got to fight my natural urge to ask him about everything he saw. Naturally curious as I may be and what he's said is already pretty horrible, he's of the opinion I really don't want to know. He may be right in that assumption.
Bonobos, SickOfItAll. Make Love Not War. Bonobos. Pure Lennonism.
and then we will say Mission Accomplished thank you.
--MinnieB9
No, that shouldn't be the end of it. If that's all the justice we get by supporting the Democrats, then count me out.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 03.20.04 - 3:32 am | #
You’d rather leave Bush in power?
We are gonna have our hands full cleaning up what he started you know.
.....
"I see it in my buddy's eyes when he talks about his time there. just like I see it in my old man's eyes when Vietnam comes up."
The fatfuck had gotten to level 12 of Doom2, and was going down that corridoor with all the hypergoblins in it when a HUGE metalbaron showed up and he almost died choking on his cheetoe.
What about him? What about HIS post-tramatic-stress?
What, no sympathy for the fatfuck?
My son seems to be doing okay after playing Doom II. Maybe because he ate Flamin' Hot Cheetos all the time?
We'd only have to really worry about Golden Showers if he were a veteran of Zero Wing. 
Rev. Backslider: back when I was in college, "radical liberal" would have been considered a risible oxymoron. A "leftist" had to be a Marxist. Which sort of left me out, but what the hell. I still knew which side I was on.
He may be right in that assumption.
Reverend Backslider
I have experienced some things. I don't want to casually talk about it because it's disrespectful to their memory. You can sorta talk about it in a formal way.
bad jim, confronting Saddam was well in line with previously established Dem policies and priorities so it was consistent with actions and resolutions taken in the Clinton administration, but like Kerry says, there was a right way and a wrong way to confront Saddam and Bush chose the wrong way.
Bush has only himself to hold accountable for the hokey palokey bungling and bamboozling, we were going to remove Saddam, but a better way would have been to get the region and the local folks on board first, put a plan in place and do an intervention that included a lot of burden sharing.
Unfortunately Bush not only bungled and bamboozled the going in, he bungled and bamboozled the staying in and lost almost a year while he and Bungling Bremer foot-dragged and wasted precious time, which could have been used to get the folks on board and formulate regional consensus and empower all the constituents, like the religious Shia, Kurds et al.
Now, belatedly with an election looming, he is scrambling to do what he shoulda done a year ago, frantic to provide something looking like a trajectory, frantic to get a consensus and support on board.
.....
You’d rather leave Bush in power?
--MinnieB9
I don't think we should start speculating on why Bush is in power now, or what my not voting for Kerry will result in other than my expression of dissatisfaction with either of the two political parties.
I LOVE Bonobos ... in what other context do you get to say the words "mutually masturbating monkeys"???
http://tinyurl.com/3fuxu
The Aegean (sp?) stables was a small job compared to the cleanup needed here. Bush has made State, pentagon, the whole place a political superfund site.
I'm goin bed, and dream about Old Hat
"I LOVE Bonobos ... in what other context do you get to say the words "mutually masturbating monkeys"???"
Uh, after the fatfuck and his friends stopped playing Doom2, started playing Wing Commander and then started thinking about "Golden showers"?
That works.
This isn't the crusty Anonymous I like.
Niters all.
bad Jim,
I'm a Marxist, but of the Groucho variety. My brother's one of the Harpo variety. Ironically enough, I am known as the chatty brother while most folks consider him rather introverted. As for the "radical" tag, to quote the great Swamp Dogg, I'm all about the total destruction to one's mind...after whichever fashion seems most appropriate.
Sick Of It All,
I can understand that, and I can understand how many if not most people feel that way. It's my curse (or blessing), however, to be the exact opposite. Bluntly, I've all the subtlty of a rubber hammer. It's only afterwards I realize that lengthy revelations about my suicide attempts a few years back or my dad's alcoholism may've freaked the listener out. And, in conjunction with that, my inquisitive nature sometimes causes me to forget the concept of tact. Like I said, I make a conscience effort to not dig where people would rather me not go.
Still, I've always found people want to talk about painful things, but for whatever reason, they find it too difficult or painful. My own curriosity concerning human nature takes a backseat to making sure folks are comfortable with uncomfortable memories when they arise. In other words, I do what I can, ya know?
Where IS that fatfuck anyway?
that shouldn't be the end of it
Hell no. Let me borrow Churchill: it's not the beginning of the end, but it might be the end of the beginning.
We're a bit short of social justice in this country, and at the same time the plutocracy wants to turn us into a cheap labor pool, doctors and manufacturers are finally beginning to agree that we'd be better off with national health care.
The administration doesn't even accord with itself in its handling of the environment. Energy? Even the Saudis are admitting that they've passed their peak. Less oil, all, henceforth.
Look, if you've been to death's door, it seems that just getting past that point is everything. In practice, though, it's the beginning of everything else.
Now come on Petey--there aren't any hypergoblins or metal barons in Doom II, and Level 12 isn't even half of the game.
Heck, I remember playing the first Doom on Nightmare mode, with just the chainsaw with an occasional berserk mode to break up the monotony.
MISSING: One fatfuck
PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION: Fat as fuck.
HOBBIES: Doom2, eattin cheetoes, jacking off like a monkey.
REWARD: None
Anonymous, you're really freaking me out now.
Golden Boy, what are your thoughts on that Enron oil pipeline that was supposed to be built through Afghanistan?
Old Hat
actually, it was Unocol with the pipeline gig
I suppose you don't know the US death total for the Balkans under Clinton?
I do! I do!
Someone else want to tell this gobshite?
Thersites |
uhhhhm, the same number as the number of Wmds we've found in iWaq?
"Now come on Petey--there aren't any hypergoblins or metal barons in Doom II, and Level 12 isn't even half of the game."
Hmmm. You sound like kinda an expert. Maybe you and the fatfuck could get together and form some kind of support group. Made you could help him cope with all his Doom2-induced post-tramatic stress and keep him from doing anything suici...
Uh, naw. Naw, BAD idea. Forget I mentioned it.
Yeew askd a hard qweschin preznit. Kannt kownt that hiih.
Petey:
I'd rather tear off my own skin and strangle myself with it, thanks.
Please tell me Bush will lose in 2004. How many scnadals does it take? How much evidence of incompetence does it require to convict Mr. Bush of...well...incompetence.
Someone, anyone, please tell me we won't suffer another four years of the Bush Cabal.
Visit my site:
www.removebush.com
Thanks!
Backslider, I did see that discussion of alcoholic parents (if there was only one). I had one too. It may be more common than we think. Like Clinton, I stood up to my dad (again and again; he boxed back when he was in the army and kind of enjoyed fighting with me). Still, I defended my mom (who might also have had a bit to drink, and so generally had I on these and other occasions).
After watching a Sean O'Casey play on TV, I concluded that this was actually not pathology, but rather Irish culture. I'm not sure I can complain. I'm a fifth-generation Democrat, at least a third-generation atheist, moderately wealthy, healthy, and if not wise at least intermittently grammatical.
Got troll?
DNFTT
Petey Wheatstraw smells like things little and green. Noah in this very thread showed you how to kick ass and it wasn't with multiple mockposts.
Also, somebody answer the Hobbes question!! We have seraphcookies!!
After watching a Sean O'Casey play on TV, I concluded that this was actually not pathology, but rather Irish culture.
There's a difference between pathology and Irish culture?
I kid! I kid!
I am a huge O'Casey fan. The world, of course, is still in a terrible state o' chassis.
Also, somebody answer the Hobbes question!! We have seraphcookies!!
kei & yuri
They think Hobbes' Leviathan is pro-big gov because they are illiterate ... now where are my cookies????
"Petey Wheatstraw smells like things little and green. Noah in this very thread showed you how to kick ass and it wasn't with multiple mockposts."
Ah, looks like we got ourselves a fatfuck sympathizer here. A genuine fatfuck-LOVER. Whose side are you ON, boy? Ours? Or the fatfuck?
Also, I don't smell like baby turds. I smell like freshly felled cedar with a dash of pumpernickle. Old Spice, dontch know.
And oh yeah: Hobbes can suck it. He was just a stupid stuffed tiger. Now Calvin...CALVIN was cool.
So you're trying to opt out of the system. Voting is a choice. You can vote for change or not.
The November election isn't the primaries where you can throw away a protest vote. Anyone who chooses a. not to vote or b. to vote for a 3rd party candidate is making a conscience choice to vote for the winner, no matter who the winner is.
You can either participate as an active voter or as a passive voter but either way you are part of the system, like it or not.
bad Jim,
I dunno about Irish culture, but I do know about hillbilly culture. All the men on both sides of my family were drunks. Only two of my aunts and my paternal grandmother drank, but you couldn't call 'em alcoholics. My old man was a drunk. He's been sober for 17 years. It honestly stuns me to think it's been that long. I didn't have to stand up for my mother because she stood up quite nicely on her own. Through the old man through the living room window once, she did. Hillbilly women don't take shit from anyone.
My brother doesn't drink, though he does enjoy the sweet leaf a great deal. Moreso than me, honestly. I danced along the edge of addiction several times, but one too many mornings broke me from turning a vice into a habit. My family's pretty stoic - your typical tight-knit group of hard-working Baptist folks - but each generation produces at least one outlaw. This time, it got two in my "sensitive musician" brother and my own "wastrel philosopher" self.
kei & yuri,
I don't know what seraphcookies are, nor do I know how Norquist and his bunch can turn Leviathan into an argument for bathwater strangling. Frankly, between you and me and the electronic water cooler, I think them cats make shit up as they go along. Consistency isn't a hard and fast requirement, otherwise they'd be yowling for a cut in the big, nasty government's defense budget.
Got to concentrate. Demonstration tomorrow. 11AM to 1PM. Flag staff in southeast corner of garage. Yellow rattlesnake flag on hanger in closet. Dress all in black. Likely cool, overcast, temperature 15-20°C. Check.
"My brother doesn't drink, though he does enjoy the sweet leaf a great deal."
Duuuuuuuuuuuude. I wanna, like, join your church TOMARROW, man!!! If you don't mind preaching to the converted, that is. PRAISE JESUS FOR THE HOLY JOINT!!
"Got to concentrate. Demonstration tomorrow. 11AM to 1PM. Flag staff in southeast corner of garage. Yellow rattlesnake flag on hanger in closet. Dress all in black. Likely cool, overcast, temperature 15-20°C. Check."
Hahaha! Now I'll know JUST who to hit over the head with my billy club. I'm working...shall we say...security!
Hahaha! Just kidding.
I'm gonna be protesting in New York! I'll look out of ya and wave hello!
Hey, the devil's son-in-law is always welcome in the First House of Gibson Les Paul Worship and Horizontal, Throbbing Teenage Desires.
"Hey, the devil's son-in-law"
Fuck, man...I gotta tell ya...in all my years online...all five...you are absolutely, positively the very FIRST person to catch that reference.
Congratulations, pastor.
You're one cool motherfucker!
My wastrel father wound up dying of a cancer unrelated, as far as I know, to his misbehavior. I've had angry arguments with both brothers, they insisting that his drinking & smoking killed him, I (perhaps not that calmly) reiterating that those are not known risk factors for NHL.
For all our shared agnosticism, my family has a mean Calvinist streak. Their consensus is that you are responsible for your fate. My survival so far suggests otherwise, but they're tired of that argument.
You're one cool motherfucker!
Yes, yes I am. Humble, too. And, as it turns out, I'm familiar with the original reference - a bluesman who called himself the "devil's son-in-law" as well as "the high sherrif of hell" - and the more recent Rudy Ray Moore flick. For the latter, not one of his better, in my opinion, but of course, nothing compares to the masterpiece that is Dolemite.
As for the bluesman, he's also the first cat to claim he sold his soul to Satan at the crossroads. Nifty character all the way around. One of the most popular bluesmen of the Depression era - and one of the few with a steady record contract - very little is known about him. His death - on his 39th birthday, no less - is also the stuff of legends. He was trying to beat a train moving at full-speed after driving to the local market for libations. Needless to say, the locomotive won out.
bad Jim,
My dad's got some serious health problems that are currently kicking his ass. Mainly, it's diabetes and stuff resulting from both an industrial accident (an explosion at a job site that killed more than 200 workers and left the old man with third degree burns over 90% of his body) and his time in 'Nam (Agent Orange, thanks a lot U.S. government!). He smoked for 20 years, which I doubt helped, nor did the boozing, but he still trundles along the best he can.
Funny you should mention the Calvinist mindset. My old man doesn't hassle me about my own taste for the devil's brew. He just tells me, whatever mess I get into, it's my ass because I'm the one that got it there.
"For the latter, not one of his better, in my opinion, but of course, nothing compares to the masterpiece that is Dolemite."
Hahaha! This is, like, why the people on the political left are, like, MY people, yo. Take Rev. Backslider, f'rinstance: He can bullshit all night about the finer points of Hobbes Laviathan, and then, without missing a beat, can shift gears and talk about far more WEIGHTY and IMPORTANT issues -- like what a badass Rudy Ray Moore is. No right-wingers can do that. It just is, like, BEYOND them.
In fact, the only thing the right-wing crowd has going for them is the shaved armpits on their women. C'mon you left-leaning gals: I shave my face every goddam morning. The least you can do is run a bic under there twice a week.
Is that too much to ask?
"For the latter, not one of his better, in my opinion, but of course, nothing compares to the masterpiece that is Dolemite."
Hahaha! This is, like, why the people on the political left are, like, MY people, yo. Take Rev. Backslider, f'rinstance: He can bullshit all night about the finer points of Hobbes Laviathan, and then, without missing a beat, can shift gears and talk about far more WEIGHTY and IMPORTANT issues -- like what a badass Rudy Ray Moore is. No right-wingers can do that. It just is, like, BEYOND them.
In fact, the only thing the right-wing crowd has going for them is the shaved armpits on their women. C'mon you left-leaning gals: I shave my face every goddam morning. The least you can do is run a bic under there twice a week.
Is that too much to ask?
At least you've still got a live dad.
Dates happen. My father's mother had her daughter on her 40th birthday; her sons accused her of instantiating "Life begins at 40." My father died on his 40th wedding anniversary.
Freeman Dyson, in an article in a recent New York Review, passes on the insight that a miracle happens once a month, on average.
For the purpose of argument, a miracle is defined as a "significant" event with a likelihood of one in a million. Significance is a subjective assignment (any hand of cards is as unlikely as any other, but we assign more significance to a straight flush than to a hand all of whose numbers are prime) and events are, given human bandwidth, something we get about once per second. Thus, a miracle a month.
Parting thought, before I succumb to Morpheus:
The various philosophers have tried to understand the world. The point, however, is to change it!
P.W., it seems that one should hit "OK" instead of Refresh, to avoid double-posting.
Pacifica National Radio Presents:
Live from Capitol Hill - The Hearings of the September 11 Commission into Terrorist Attacks on the United States
Tuesday and Wednesday March 23/24 8:30am - 3:00 pm Eastern in New York on WBAI 99.5 fm or live on the web at www.kpfa.org, or find the affiliate near you at www.pacifica.org
The witness list, just announced, includes Colin Powell, Donald Rumsfeld, George Tenet, Madeline Albright, and many other present and former government officials.
For the first time in public, the Commission says it will examine what the Bush administration knew and did leading up to 9/11.
Pacifica's National Affairs Correspondent, Larry Bensky, will anchor the hearings from Capitol Hill. He will be joined by author Gail Sheehy, who has been covering the September 11 commision for the New York Observer.
As always, Pacifica's broadcast will feature alternative opinions and interpretations about the subject. Listener phone ins will be taken during breaks.
Info: Producer Stephenie Hendricks 415
Pacifica National Radio Presents:
Live from Capitol Hill - The Hearings of the September 11 Commission into Terrorist Attacks on the United States
Tuesday and Wednesday March 23/24 8:30am - 3:00 pm Eastern in New York on WBAI 99.5 fm or live on the web at www.kpfa.org, or find the affiliate near you at www.pacifica.org
The witness list, just announced, includes Colin Powell, Donald Rumsfeld, George Tenet, Madeline Albright, and many other present and former government officials.
For the first time in public, the Commission says it will examine what the Bush administration knew and did leading up to 9/11.
Pacifica's National Affairs Correspondent, Larry Bensky, will anchor the hearings from Capitol Hill. He will be joined by author Gail Sheehy, who has been covering the September 11 commision for the New York Observer.
As always, Pacifica's broadcast will feature alternative opinions and interpretations about the subject. Listener phone ins will be taken during breaks.
"P.W., it seems that one should hit "OK" instead of Refresh, to avoid double-posting."
Whoops. Sorry. Never happen again.
"P.W., it seems that one should hit "OK" instead of Refresh, to avoid double-posting."
Whoops. Sorry. Never happen again.
"WTC Survivor"?
No shit? You were really IN there?
bad Jim,
Synchronicity. You look for coincidences, you find 'em. You look for miracles, you find 'em. To look for disappointments, you find 'em. And you're right, the key to existence isn't only understanding, although that's a great deal of it. As I stumble towards my thirties, I've come to the realization that the only goal I really need is to leave the planet a little better than I found it. And, have as much fun as possible in the process.
Petey,
Now, now...don't swallow the stereotype. The truly groovy thing I've found about the leftist community is indeed the diversity. There's room for everyone from picket-fence families and the faithful few (religiously speaking) to pot-smoking, rock & roll-loving, ne'er-do-well wanna-be philosophers.
Besides, if a girl's comfortable with the "natural" look and that's what makes her comfortable, trust me, she's a rare find indeed. Course, I can't say much against 'em as I haven't cut my hair in eight years and haven't shaved in almost a year. My brother says I look like a midget viking from The Thirteenth Warrior.
Petey, you seem an alright sort, but 90% of your content is pure vitriolic ad hominem (conservative women, who are after all the ones conforming to their God-appointed male masters, have hairy armpits? We're friends with Golden Boy for not being friends of yours?). The fact of the matter is that baseless spite is exactly what you get at LGF, although from a different angle.
Sorry, after seeing his callous indifference to the wounded soldiers I do hate him. It was almost like he was exalted of something. Fucking loser.
Yeah. And what are the odds that ward 57 is for those with media-friendly grazes, rather than missing arms and legs?
When Cher is doing a better job of visiting wounded troops in Walter Reed than the 'Commander' in 'Chief', it's a sign that the country is truly fucked.
Is it possible Rover told the media to go focus on some anecdotal events, to make Clinton's liberation look like it is crumbling? I don't know...but it seems strange that all these things are happening now that Bush is behind the 8-ball.
No, the problems in Kosovo right now are in part because there's been a stealthy decline in US engagement while Operation DaddyVengeance has progressed, sucking every soldier and reservist into Iraq. Throw in a bit of race-baiting from the Albanian media, and you have a mini-Kristellnacht.
Sort of like the ball-drop in Afghanistan, really.
You mean this Mr. Zelikow, the Executive Director of the 9/11 Commission??!?!?
This needs to be on every news broadcast, and repeated ad nauseum.
Time for Cynical Barry to come out...
You know, there was a time when I, too, would discover little things buried in various places that revealed much and required sunshine and fresh air. And I would clip them, and eagerly send them to various members of our Fourth Estate, like some panting Jimmy Olsen, expecting that Lois and Clark would open their eyes wide, and Perry White would yell, "Great Caesar's Ghost!" And then, this damning information would be on the front page of the NY Times, and some authoritatively-suited Caucasian would intone it at the top of the evening network newscast; the peasants across Amurica would turn their attention from the tractor, fiddle with their corncob pipes, and listen rapt while their minds were changed irrevocably about their democratically-elected leader.
In that movie, we woulda lost Bush before we ever had him.
We've, sadly, all watched too many movies (all of them, incredibly, made in Amurica).
"Petey, you seem an alright sort, but 90% of your content is pure vitriolic ad hominem."
You seem like an all right sort too, kei...or am I talking to yuri? Anyway, this whole "ad hominem" thing? Well, it's a sham, my friend. It's a sham thought up by a buncha goofy-looking, four-eyed philosophers back in the olden days to keep people like you and me (assuming, of course, you're as athletic and handsome as I am) from making fun of them. See, when people like you and me started making fun of them, which they totally deserved, they'd go, "No, fair! No, fair! Ad Hominem! Doesn't mean anything! No fair!"
Well, I think that's bullshit. An "ad hominem" attack is just as vailid as any OTHER philisophical attack. It's only the goofy-looking bastards who try to make us think it isn't.
Don't fall for it, Yuri.
Well, actually, no, it isn't; in fact your last comment was pretty much exactly like Krusty the Clown screaming, "Is it a crime to bet on sporting events?" To continue by your logic, we could debate the invalidity of ad hominem by calling you names, and around and around we'd all go.
As we said, go back and look at Old Hat's expert strikes on Golden Boy. Noah doesn't just wimper, "Golden Boy is...stupid!" There is contact and masterful dispatch of the offending rants.
First!My Commodore 64 is smokin'.
Funny thread. Good to see a flame war, although Golden Boy crapped out all too quick.
That said, I just want to speak on behalf of the other semi-obese folks reading this (and folks, it's the internet in the USA--there's more of us chubsters than you)--FUCK YOU slender motherfuckers for using bodyweight as a slur. May you reincarnate as an endomorph and learn to look at the world (and how the world looks at you) through overweight eyes. Eat shit and die, you bony fat-scist bastards!!!
Alright, I feel better. Back to the flame wars, gay pride and family tragedies...
Hey youse guys I resemble all dem nasty remarks about fat guys. We can't all be fashion models you know. As far as Dells and Doom face it, Doom kicks ass, and it's great training for real world armed combat too, which is just like that. And Cheetos, Cheetos are good!
Not as good as pretzels, though.
The Bush Doctrine = terrorists WITH WMDs
petey sez: In fact, the only thing the right-wing crowd has going for them is the shaved armpits on their women. C'mon you left-leaning gals: I shave my face every goddam morning. The least you can do is run a bic under there twice a week.
It's just a little innocent fuzz; don't be so peevish, Your Majesty.
It was warm in the evening sun. She wore on the second day of their ridiculous cohabitation nothing except a kind of buttonless and sleeveless pajama top. The sight of her four bare limbs and three mousepits (Zemblan anatomy) irritated him, and while pacing about and pondering his coronation speech, he would toss towards her, without looking, her shorts or a terrycloth robe. Sometimes, upon returning to the comfortable old chair he would find her in it contemplating sorrowfully the picture of a _bogtur_ (ancient warrior) in the history book. He would sweep her out of his chair, his eyes still on his writing pad, and stretching herself she would move over to the window seat and its dusty sunbeam; but after a while she tried to cuddle up to him, and he had to push away her burrowing dark curly head with one hand while writing with the other or detach one by one her little pink claws from his sleeve or sash.
With the price of crude oil just about at Iraq-war levels, could it be that the House of Saud is pissed at the House of Bush? Taking a rosy economy out of the election equation pretty much guaranties unka karl going to plan B: terrorist event in the US or on US assets before nov-04.
Clinton did make successful arrests for the attempted north American terror.
So Bin Laden was a suspect but not outright shown to have been involved in the Cole until it was too late to act decisively ? Perhaps the Carlysle and Saudi money stonewalled the proof of OBL Sudan misdoings and he then waited until election time to make it known to help his brother's business dealings.
OBL's family worked on Mecca and the Dome of the Rock, and are Carlysle people, their influence was great enough to get flights out of America on 9-11. We all know Bush has no original ideas and does what it told so it is a stronger conspiracy case than people who criticise him see beacuse it is too obvious. by the end of the day Bush looked like the shitboy he is and pappa Bush was changing his diapers and worrying because he couldn't blame those poopy pants on Reagan. But is was years since he smeared John Chancellor out of a job and had inserted enough friendlys and sympathizers aside from lobbyist as 'guest experts' on TV news and multinational networks with interwoven portfolios could make the Bush crooks look like innocent guys reading stories to kids and ignoring the largest city in America burning. Their previous Indonesia M.O. established legit business ties to front Al Queida via Bin Laden's brothers so what is there to doubt the same was done on our soil? Perhaps this was how Clinton tracked the LA attempt to instill fear via terror... would have to see the complete family holdings of the BL's and their Carlysle cohorts.
Our soil is the key component, they had no access to Bin Laden in the Sudan, the leader there feared retaliation and OBL scared Khadaffhi straight as well. The only person who go on the deal was himself a terrorist type of character question and could have used the money to doublecross.
North America however is where the Bush league knew one of the 9-11 cells were, let them train in Jeb's state, and had seized a computer in another state.
A recount judge blocked phone taps and search warrants. Yet one of the high ranking al queida ops that Clinton was blamed for not arresting abroad, where it would reveal sources and compromise our chance at stopping leadership, was known to be in North America by information that Tenet will drop at the right time.
The kind of info that Condie ignored on a consistent basis to report to Bush. Bush can just play dumb anyways, he eats pretzels with caviar and snorts lines of coke off a wife swap's ass joking about how the press ignored his DUIs for that story.
Anyways I digress, sources are very important. Dick Cheney and Condie Ricin leaked the name with Rove's direct oversight of the name mentioned who was ousted from Bush 41 for the same kind of dealings, and Ashcroft was visible at the White House at the time helping get the fakeriot act going. Easily it could be said each of them partook of the out
Clinton did make successful arrests for the attempted north American terror.
So Bin Laden was a suspect but not outright shown to have been involved in the Cole until it was too late to act decisively ? Perhaps the Carlysle and Saudi money stonewalled the proof of OBL Sudan misdoings and he then waited until election time to make it known to help his brother's business dealings.
OBL's family worked on Mecca and the Dome of the Rock, and are Carlysle people, their influence was great enough to get flights out of America on 9-11. We all know Bush has no original ideas and does what it told so it is a stronger conspiracy case than people who criticise him see beacuse it is too obvious. by the end of the day Bush looked like the shitboy he is and pappa Bush was changing his diapers and worrying because he couldn't blame those poopy pants on Reagan. But is was years since he smeared John Chancellor out of a job and had inserted enough friendlys and sympathizers aside from lobbyist as 'guest experts' on TV news and multinational networks with interwoven portfolios could make the Bush crooks look like innocent guys reading stories to kids and ignoring the largest city in America burning. Their previous Indonesia M.O. established legit business ties to front Al Queida via Bin Laden's brothers so what is there to doubt the same was done on our soil? Perhaps this was how Clinton tracked the LA attempt to instill fear via terror... would have to see the complete family holdings of the BL's and their Carlysle cohorts.
Our soil is the key component, they had no access to Bin Laden in the Sudan, the leader there feared retaliation and OBL scared Khadaffhi straight as well. The only person who go on the deal was himself a terrorist type of character question and could have used the money to doublecross.
North America however is where the Bush league knew one of the 9-11 cells were, let them train in Jeb's state, and had seized a computer in another state.
A recount judge blocked phone taps and search warrants. Yet one of the high ranking al queida ops that Clinton was blamed for not arresting abroad, where it would reveal sources and compromise our chance at stopping leadership, was known to be in North America by information that Tenet will drop at the right time.
The kind of info that Condie ignored on a consistent basis to report to Bush. Bush can just play dumb anyways, he eats pretzels with caviar and snorts lines of coke off a wife swap's ass joking about how the press ignored his DUIs for that story.
Anyways I digress (once again), sources are very important. Dick Cheney and Condie Ricin leaked the name with Rove's direct oversight of the name mentioned who was ousted from Bush 41 for the same kind of dealings, and Ashcroft was visible at the White House at the time helping get the fakeriot act going. Easily it could be said each of them partook of the outing.
And a name like Scooter did it, sounds like a character from DoomII and Golden's subserviant IQ rhetoric
And hair on women doesn't give me the willies either. Damn, every other female mammal on earth has hair (er, maybe not dolphins)--I can live with half the human race not obsessively shorning their legs and pits. But, hey, like what you like--just remember women are like the pope: they crap, piss and have bodies too--not just animate, smooth marble limbs.
How in the hell did the skinny, hairless albino become an ideal of beauty anyways? Give me a chick who is funky and has a brain, soul and conscience--and lives in the real world. Physical beauty dessicates over the years anyways--but a personality can be beautiful (or putrid) for decades.
Whatever. Don't mean to get preachy.
But there are more names involved in this being overlooked I believe. Marge Tutwiler, James baker's former ass't sec of state who was part of the Iraq gate/october surprise team, and did some great work with Marvin Bush's efforts to slant-drill with oil well heads her family patented when Kuwait stole oil from the distracted Saddam and doubled their output to flood the OPEC market and cause recessions in Iraq of then record numbers (until Bush showed them a real recession); she is also Morrocco's ambassador who helped that country oversee the illegal secede effort to grab West Sahra's oil up for James Baker's KerrMcGhee. She left just in time for the bomb to burst on Spain, maybe she saw it coming and wanted distance. Her efforts there to set up a Bush visit which coincided with terror attacks to push a appropriations through, and our use of the patriot provisions abroad as they imported enough voters to West S. to rig elections, is a model Bush is trying here with mexican emigres.
I have the feeling she is the Novak contact as well. Scooter dropped the bomb, she helped continue it as a scoop on Iraq as the communications director there, and then Cheney's boy Rove spread the story telling the other Nofacts would get the first dibs on the scoop.
The outing of Plaime is the scenario that could result what Condie Lies-uh talked about: Mushroom clouds happening and it could very well occur still. Additionally it was in the African Theatre, North Central Africa, where French trade languages are common and French political ties. Could this leak have compromised the Spain terror attacks forwarnings? Cheney's fraud implications were onto a bigger story here, and the Bechtel circle has nuke inroads there albeit it was German and French firms who knew the full nuke capacity and therefore would not verify the WMD lie because they knew better
. Britain had no embassy there and somehow verified this? Could it be the Enron circle since they left the US and have moved to Asia/UK theatres? Plaime's outing probably directly led to this and should be examined even closer.
I'll have to verify that much, searching their stories back via google and the last time I did it was page 31 before I got to the family slant drill head product info, although a former college professor told me about the technology and why it led to war, he could not name names without implicating his sources. Colin Powell has a thing about names, yet his staff has proven themselves loose cannons. Talk about a domino theory, one mistake leads to another. the Confederacy of Dunces was a great book and ahead of its time, a deserving feature for the 'journalist' this issue deals with. 'Journalist' should be listed as if it were assumed and not proven, or paradied, as Nofacts is a case of form over content, he doesn't tell a fact straight right or in context, and the one big fact he gets is better left unsaid.
Look for Novak's stories from the time of the Bush 41 and the INTEL scam, then see what names go in his stories, which regions as well. Then compare those names with Plaime( her previous work cover), Wilson under Bush 41 years, and the regions/theatres of the MidEast,Africa, and Mediterranean Europe.
We'll leave it at that in this blog for now... I was going to Memphis to support a candidate appearance there, was expecting to meet friends to support Wes Clark. I was late, found they ran late as well, so I tried to call him and go by the house and ended up seeing them in the background of the website for Wes in a photo op.
Anyways they had a fellow with them from here whose wife is from SE Europe and is a tremendous Clark supporter for his winning the peace.Europe is ready for new US leadership to work with, people who know the EU well. Missing them on the fly was frustrating, by the time i got back I missed the late running hookup as well... and they ended up at BB King's where I should have gone to eat since it had been a while since visiting the city...
On the trip to his place and back I passed the city's old streets and names , perhaps you'll recognize a few of them and their importance.
Clinton St. (dead end), Tutwiler Street, the Ford Expressway, Past the Tutwiler House and the Halliburton House which are next door to each other ( a friend rented out a room in it as a psych major), and of course Prescott Ave.
Still I prefer a choice which can enumerate and annunciate with some degree of clarity and cohesion.
If it comes down to the lowest common denominator, not even occam's razor can save the "misunderestimated" anti-statements of aWol in his dressup suits. Bush seems like the guy from spinal tap who would get lost backstage and wear a cucumber wrapped in tinfoil for a photo op.
"Hello Clelveland!"
From one rock and roll city/segue to another...
For Golden Boy, even though he went to see Dawn of the Dead with the other losers last night:
A. You should read what the Military SAID about the Clinton missile strikes against OBL. They claimed it was an awesome, righteous operation. Are they lying?
B. If you're so gung ho, you should sign up again. I'm sure they're looking for medics in Iraq.
Damn I doubleposted several times over at the start, srry atri, I do not post here often, but other blogs glean the wisdom here and it is great stuff.
Sorry for the long post, just the kind of mindfuck material for an allnighter when the keyboard is the tramonig grounds for the grapes of wrath.
Before I get accused of plaigurism for that line I'll cover the naked statue of meekness and return to my prowl and scowl likeness for a while now...
Mybe when the Franken features start up I can cover such time without bugginh others so much.
"...he eats pretzels with caviar and snorts lines of coke off a wife swap's ass joking about how the press ignored his DUIs..."
With riffs like that you have a talent, but I'd lay off the speed, midnight-to-dawn google research and doctoral-thesis posting length. Brevity is the heart of blogging. Bottoms up, Murder.
Looking back on Bush vs. Gore, Professor Joseph Olson of the Hamline University School of Law in St. Paul, Minnesota, gives us a shrewd perspective. Adding up the counties in the U.S. won by the two candidates, it was Gore 677, Bush 2,434. Taking the population of those counties, it was 143 million for Bush, 127 million for Gore. In square miles of land won, Gore 580,000, Bush 2,427,000. The murder rate in Gore counties, 13.2 per 100,000 residents, contrasted with 2.1 in the Bush counties.
-WFB
and now for completely baseless speculation in the wrong thread
Bush's campaign retains the services of paramilitary rentacop strikebreakers Vance Int'l
They break strikes by "projecting" violence, as in the robbery scene in the Sean Connery movie about the Molly Maguires, or the impossible-to-prove mystery of alleged "anarchists" (they wore black bandannas, which is like silver or holy water for cops! they must be anarchists!) destroying working-class property instead of wealthier stuff. They provide the smoking gun (or the smashed glass) for the inevitable "peace protestors most violent thing in history" paradox¤ headlines.
¤{Incidentally, these paradoxes are a regular part of rightist illogic: black people don't want affirmative action, slavery was a government institution, white men are the real victims, homeless vets and welfare mothers are wealthy and comfortable, women are winning a war on men, social security is in danger but the pentagon is a monument to fiscal justice, socialized medicine (as well as socialism) will be collapsing any day now, arabs voluntarily banish themselves from their homes every so often, etc.. Instead of resting on facts or making any sense, these paradoxes stick in the mind like thistles or annoying songs because they do not make any sense.}
Golden Boy translated:
Mmmmm....Bush's ass smells good!
If the Bush team had been on the ball, they would have been busy following Clinton example and bombed at least a dozen pharmaceutical factories by the time Sept. 11 rolled out. That sure would've shown al Qaeda!
-WFB
..I..
That is about the silliest thing I've ever seen, assuming it is an accurate discription. Anyone who thinks adding up counties indicates anything, considering the vast differences in population among counties cannot produce a "shrewd perspective". Republican thinking at it's most rigorous.
How about adding up the Bush supporters who wear propeller beanies?
Who is this other EPT who posted above me?
Sweet creeping zombie Jesus, what the hell happened to this thread overnight?
(¤)(¤)
vivan las tetas.
No answer yet. Looks like one the trolls is posting under my name again, folks. Remember, the horse shit is his, the brilliant stuff is the real thing. And I never say anything nice about the Republican party or anything that would help them destroy democracy.
Maybe I'll have to go underground for a while.
"In June 2003, I visited Iraq's mass graves, the most recent addition to mankind's legacy of mass murder," writes USAID administrator Andrew Natsios. "The bones tell a story of horror and shame: arms bound together, skulls pierced from behind. Hundreds in one long trench."
According to the study, 270 mass graves have been reported since Hussein fell last May. Since then, 53 sites have been confirmed. "Some graves hold a few dozen bodies," the authors explain. "Other graves go on for hundreds of meters, densely packed with thousands of bodies.
Assessments of the devastation vary. Last May, Human Rights Watch concluded that "as many as 290,000 Iraqis have been 'disappeared' by the Iraqi government over the past two decades." Last November 20, British Prime Minister Tony Blair said: "We've already discovered just so far the remains of 400,000 people in mass graves." This scale of destruction rivals 1994's Rwandan genocide.
USAID relays the stories of three men who were left for dead, but escaped their graves, thanks to non-fatal wounds. Ali (a pseudonym) recalls being dragged from his car during a March 6, 1991 family outing. The 36-year-old was driven to the Mahawil military camp, 60 miles south of Baghdad. Among roughly 200 captives, he says he saw some, including a blind man and a five-year-old boy, shot and thrown into a trench. To speed the killing, others were burned alive on a 20-foot-wide pile of tires. Still more were forced to stand for hours in cold water, given electric shocks on their tongues, or fatally beaten with pipes. Unlike Ali, few got away.
-DM
"In June 2003, I visited Iraq's mass graves, the most recent addition to mankind's legacy of mass murder," writes USAID administrator Andrew Natsios
Now nice, maybe he'll visit the graves of the gassing victums, you know the ones who Saddam killed while Rummy was trying to negotiate the pipeline deal. Or maybe he can go to El Salvador and Nicaragua and visit the graves of the people killed by Pater Bush's daddy and his pals.
Why, he could spend years visiting the graves of people killed by the allies of the United States.
"In June 2003, I visited Iraq's mass graves, the most recent addition to mankind's legacy of mass murder," writes USAID administrator Andrew Natsios
Now nice, maybe he'll visit the graves of the gassing victums, you know the ones who Saddam killed while Rummy was trying to negotiate the pipeline deal. Or maybe he can go to El Salvador and Nicaragua and visit the graves of the people killed by Little Bush's daddy and his pals.
Why, he could spend years visiting the graves of people killed by the allies of the United States.
Bill Clinton is famous for his letter stating how he "loathed the military."
Ah, the old NewsMax view of his letter to Col. Holmes. The full quote:
I am writing too in the hope that my telling this one story will help you to understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves still loving their country but loathing the military, to which you and other good men have devoted years, lifetimes, of the best service you could give.
This, of course, comes after an anguished discussion about the immorality of the war in Vietnam, the draft, and the "obscenity" of considering draft resistance a crime. But such nuances and principles are lost on wingers...
Thanks NTodd, I left out Southeast Asia. Maybe Andrew Natsios can visit the victums of agent orange. I don't think he's ever been there before. Pretty certain Little Bush hasn't.
I thought it was one person, one vote -- and then only if you actually vote (and of course if they actually count them) -- that mattered. When did counties and square miles get to vote? Or is that another Bush amendment we can look forward to?
I-Ariel-Zozobra-AM.... how many personalities can one troll keep in his little head? And now he thinks he's me too.
I thought it was one person, one vote -- and then only if you actually vote (and of course if they actually count them) -- that mattered. When did counties and square miles get to vote? Or is that another Bush amendment we can look forward to?
"..I.." sez: Looking back on Bush vs. Gore, Professor Joseph Olson of the Hamline University School of Law in St. Paul, Minnesota, gives us a shrewd perspective.
It's not a shrewd perspective, it's a retarded perspective.
First of all, Gore won the popular vote by a half-million. All this idiotic chopping-up-the-vote trickery you Republicans keep shoveling out ("but if there just didn't exist any of those darn knee-grows then Republicans would have won all the Senate seats!!1!") can't nullify that fact. Adding up the populations of the counties where Bush won 50.1% or more of the vote is like classifying voters by whether the number on the license plate of their car is even or odd.
By similar reasoning to yours I've seen colored maps of the U.S.A. where Florida shows up as solid red - Florida, which in 2000 the Bushites took (by means of blatant voter fraud, incidentally) with a "sweeping mandate," that is a majority of a whole 500 votes. I live in Florida; thus by "blue state/red state" logic I must be an ardent admirer of that illiterate New Haven Texan.
What's more, even though, as I say, your statistics are fundamentally meaningless anyway, I simply won't believe that comparative murder rate figure of yours (13.2/100000 vs. 2.1/100000) until I see some believable raw data. Those numbers lit up my bullshit detector the first time I read this drivel; the ratio is improbably large. Who's your statistician, Mary Rosh?
All the wishful thinking in the world can't eliminate that half-million-voter popular majority. Hang it up.
I thought it was one person, one vote -- and then only if you actually vote (and of course if they actually count them) -- that mattered. When did counties and square miles get to vote? Or is that another Bush amendment we can look forward to?
Looking back on Bush vs. Gore, Professor Joseph Olson of the Hamline University School of Law in St. Paul, Minnesota, gives us a shrewd perspective.
Snopes.
Clinton did make successful arrests for the attempted north American terror.
So Bin Laden was a suspect but not outright shown to have been involved in the Cole until it was too late to act decisively ? Perhaps the Carlysle and Saudi money stonewalled the proof of OBL Sudan misdoings and he then waited until election time to make it known to help his brother's business dealings.
OBL's family worked on Mecca and the Dome of the Rock, and are Carlysle people, their influence was great enough to get flights out of America on 9-11. We all know Bush has no original ideas and does what it told so it is a stronger conspiracy case than people who criticise him see beacuse it is too obvious. by the end of the day Bush looked like the shitboy he is and pappa Bush was changing his diapers and worrying because he couldn't blame those poopy pants on Reagan. But is was years since he smeared John Chancellor out of a job and had inserted enough friendlys and sympathizers aside from lobbyist as 'guest experts' on TV news and multinational networks with interwoven portfolios could make the Bush crooks look like innocent guys reading stories to kids and ignoring the largest city in America burning. Their previous Indonesia M.O. established legit business ties to front Al Queida via Bin Laden's brothers so what is there to doubt the same was done on our soil? Perhaps this was how Clinton tracked the LA attempt to instill fear via terror... would have to see the complete family holdings of the BL's and their Carlysle cohorts.
Our soil is the key component, they had no access to Bin Laden in the Sudan, the leader there feared retaliation and OBL scared Khadaffhi straight as well. The only person who go on the deal was himself a terrorist type of character question and could have used the money to doublecross.
North America however is where the Bush league knew one of the 9-11 cells were, let them train in Jeb's state, and had seized a computer in another state.
A recount judge blocked phone taps and search warrants. Yet one of the high ranking al queida ops that Clinton was blamed for not arresting abroad, where it would reveal sources and compromise our chance at stopping leadership, was known to be in North America by information that Tenet will drop at the right time.
The kind of info that Condie ignored on a consistent basis to report to Bush. Bush can just play dumb anyways, he eats pretzels with caviar and snorts lines of coke off a wife swap's ass joking about how the press ignored his DUIs for that story.
Anyways I digress, sources are very important. Dick Cheney and Condie Ricin leaked the name with Rove's direct oversight of the name mentioned who was ousted from Bush 41 for the same kind of dealings, and Ashcroft was visible at the White House at the time helping get the fakeriot act going. Easily it could be said each of them partook of the out
Clinton did make successful arrests for the attempted north American terror.
So Bin Laden was a suspect but not outright shown to have been involved in the Cole until it was too late to act decisively ? Perhaps the Carlysle and Saudi money stonewalled the proof of OBL Sudan misdoings and he then waited until election time to make it known to help his brother's business dealings.
OBL's family worked on Mecca and the Dome of the Rock, and are Carlysle people, their influence was great enough to get flights out of America on 9-11. We all know Bush has no original ideas and does what it told so it is a stronger conspiracy case than people who criticise him see beacuse it is too obvious. by the end of the day Bush looked like the shitboy he is and pappa Bush was changing his diapers and worrying because he couldn't blame those poopy pants on Reagan. But is was years since he smeared John Chancellor out of a job and had inserted enough friendlys and sympathizers aside from lobbyist as 'guest experts' on TV news and multinational networks with interwoven portfolios could make the Bush crooks look like innocent guys reading stories to kids and ignoring the largest city in America burning. Their previous Indonesia M.O. established legit business ties to front Al Queida via Bin Laden's brothers so what is there to doubt the same was done on our soil? Perhaps this was how Clinton tracked the LA attempt to instill fear via terror... would have to see the complete family holdings of the BL's and their Carlysle cohorts.
Our soil is the key component, they had no access to Bin Laden in the Sudan, the leader there feared retaliation and OBL scared Khadaffhi straight as well. The only person who go on the deal was himself a terrorist type of character question and could have used the money to doublecross.
North America however is where the Bush league knew one of the 9-11 cells were, let them train in Jeb's state, and had seized a computer in another state.
A recount judge blocked phone taps and search warrants. Yet one of the high ranking al queida ops that Clinton was blamed for not arresting abroad, where it would reveal sources and compromise our chance at stopping leadership, was known to be in North America by information that Tenet will drop at the right time.
The kind of info that Condie ignored on a consistent basis to report to Bush. Bush can just play dumb anyways, he eats pretzels with caviar and snorts lines of coke off a wife swap's ass joking about how the press ignored his DUIs for that story.
Anyways I digress, sources are very important. Dick Cheney and Condie Ricin leaked the name with Rove's direct oversight of the name mentioned who was ousted from Bush 41 for the same kind of dealings, and Ashcroft was visible at the White House at the time helping get the fakeriot act going. Easily it could be said each of them partook of the out
This clown Old Hat from up thread looks to be taking a solid lead in the slavering idiot race here. Not an easy thing to do in such a crowded and competitive field.
That article was actually written by Jack Kelley.
Anonymous, or is it Golden Boy? That's the best you can do?
You know it would really help if you could come up with credible sources and information to dispute what some have said here. As an argument tactic, attacking the messenger is childish and ineffective.
If you've got some additional facts, let's hear them.
Wasn't Cheney, the guy hammering Kerry for being weak on national defense, the guy who headed up a Task Force on Terrorism pre 9/11 that did exactly nothing to defend us?
Looking back on Bush vs. Gore, Professor Joseph Olson of the Hamline University School of Law in St. Paul, Minnesota, gives us a shrewd perspective. Adding up the counties in the U.S. won by the two candidates, it was Gore 677, Bush 2,434. Taking the population of those counties, it was 143 million for Bush, 127 million for Gore. In square miles of land won, Gore 580,000, Bush 2,427,000. The murder rate in Gore counties, 13.2 per 100,000 residents, contrasted with 2.1 in the Bush counties.
-WFB
..I
and I bet the number of cows in the combined aWol counties is at least twice that of those in the combined Gore counties. but the Gore counties did trump the aWol counties in the number of books owned, read and comprehended.
Any info on who carried the most townships in 2000? Has anyone taken the time to break it down into votes coming from people with hardwood floors? Male pattern baldness?
We need these numbers!
Wasn't Cheney, the guy hammering Kerry for being weak on national defense, the guy who headed up a Task Force on Terrorism pre 9/11 that did exactly nothing to defend us?
Yep. The Task Force never had ONE meeting:
The public face of Operation Ignore would be an antiterrorism task force led by Vive president Cheney. Its mandate: to pretend to develop a plan to counter domestic terrorist attacks. Bush announced the tsk force on May 8, 2001, and said that he himself would "perodically chair a meeting of the National Security Council to review these efforts." Bush never chaired such a meeting, though. Probably because Cheney's task force never actually met. Operation Ignore was in full swing.
Franken, Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them, pp. 117-118
I thought Golden Boy seemed familiar too.
That should be Vice President. Apt, really.
beware hubris, work for justice and good things will happen. beware hubris.
J.T.
300 comments...guess we're pretty PISSED about this one. Hey, JT.
There's only one thing to say:
Bush Knew.
Later,
(I'll copy some text from an earlier thread, but it's worth putting in the face of Golden Boy while he's here...)
Here's the question I think everyone should keep throwing in the face of the Bush defenders: HOW BAD DOES IT HAVE TO GET BEFORE YOU ADMIT YOU'RE WRONG?
Let's see...US more vulnerable than it was, with troops spread out...More of them being killed by terrorists every day...No one covering the ports, rail lines, etc. back here at home...Federal budget disaster...Jobless recovery...Our moral authority gone...Constitution shredded...
Once again, HOW BAD DOES IT HAVE TO GET? And don't change the subject: Answer the question directly.
Why did Bush, after being briefed on Aug. 6, 2001 that Al Qaeda was planning a "spectacular attack" on US soil involving commercial aircraft, go on vacation to Crawford, TX for a month?
(sound of trolls scattering and crickets chirping)
::finishes reading entire thread up through 11:14 AM::
Boyoboy, I picked one fuck of a night to crash relatively early.
Aide: Rumsfeld Urged Iraq Attack Sooner
Richard A. Clarke, the White House counterterrorism coordinator at the time, recounts in a forthcoming book details of a meeting the day after the terrorist attacks during which top officials considered the U.S. response. Even then, he said, they were certain that al-Qaida was to blame and there was no hint of Iraqi involvement.
"Frankly, I find it outrageous that the president is running for re-election on the grounds that he's done such great things about terrorism," Clarke told CBS. "He ignored it. He ignored terrorism for months, when maybe we could have done something."
ouch
I heard a NATO soldier from Kosovo on CBC radio the other day saying the violence was organized, co-ordinated and carried out with military issue equipment. Enough to make one wonder.
Silleigh - "Boyoboy, I picked one fuck of a night to crash relatively early."
you and me both - this was quite the discussion, to say the least.
>As an argument tactic, attacking the messenger is childish and ineffective.<
I agree completely. I think you should point this out to Old Hat. Someone else in this thread called his tactics a 'screed'. Not exactly correct, since a 'screed' would be more a vitriolic monologue and Old Hat tactic was to pile ad hominem up in comment after comment and declare, with a great deal of agreement, that he had therefore cleaned someone's clock. That is no argument tactic worthy of the name.
Golden Boy is yet another of AM's identities, which he has used before, and which he's relying upon others to forget he's used. Remember how I not so subtly told him to hurry up and die for us under this false identity?
He confirmed it was him again by the usual methods; tripping up over facts, returning to the old insults (remember how he started on the sexual slurs, too stupid to spot that I'd chosen this name deliberatly to mock him?) then the sudden "have to leave" excuse, and finally the combination flood of stealing other posters names, and making up new ones, in the confused belief that we'd all actually think he'd left...
America's Memory... why do you do it? Why are you so utterly pathetic? I've seen you try and claim we need you, but you are no more the point of this blog than the dog which craps on the next door neighbour's lawn is the point of that lawn. You can't lie or act as someone else convincingly. You are unable to control your own urges to foam about your usual chemically imbalanced obsessions. You are incredibly easy to wind up with the same tired old comments, Zzzzzzz. Every post you make here sounds like nothing more than a neanderthol banging nails into it's own skull... So why do it? Don't you realise how utterly self defeating you are? Even "Gordon The Magnificent" doesn't troll as obsessively as you do, and he at least has the guts to show us his webpage, where we can point at that gut and laugh at him; But you...? On and on and on and on you go, yet never able to do it well. Even a worm knows when to try and crawl away from something which is painful. But not you.
*rolls eyes at a world which allows such stupidity to continue living, which is amusing, considering you are almost certainly a Social Darwinist*
Hey, Golden Boy! What's your MOS? How about posting a scan of your DD 214 for us to see.
As an argument tactic, attacking the messenger is childish and ineffective.
And sometimes treasonous. I guess someone needs to inform the Bush Junta (*cough* Joe Wilson - Valerie Plame *cough*).
Wasn't Cheney, the guy hammering Kerry for being weak on national defense, the guy who headed up a Task Force on Terrorism pre 9/11 that did exactly nothing to defend us?
Yep. The Task Force never had ONE meeting....
pie
wait, are you trying to tell me that they had as many meetings as there were Wmds in iWaq? what a coincidence
... How about posting a scan of your DD 214 for us to see.
Chris Tucker
hey, that's not fair, you know that the scanner will get all f*cked up when you run crayons through it
All this squabbling will end when the RNC runs the campaign ad with the actual footage of Clinton's dick flying into the south tower of the WTC.
After that, it's a 48-state sweep.
Its mandate: to pretend to develop a plan to counter domestic terrorist attacks. Bush announced the tsk force on May 8, 2001
Is this Franken or a typo? Whichever, it's perfect. Clucking their tongues is about all the "tsk force" could be bothered with.
Although I admire those who are so well informed, have the references at their fingertips, and can type at the speed of light.
Does it take anything more than common sense, and a minimal standard of decency to know that Bush and his crowd will get us a world war?
But I'm still in awe of those who are so well...
Too bad this testimony is up before the independent commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks instead of an impeachment hearing.
tsk force? Ha! Typo. But you're right. It fits.
Yes, Mooser. Commonsense and some measure of decency is all it takes, which is why those who continue to defend Bush seem to lack both. He is just another politician, one who has made serious mistakes. Some go with the job, errors in judgment based on party philosophy. But many of Bush's decisions are criminal and show a blatant disregard for the Constitution, the American people, and the beliefs and opinions of the world, which are based on hundreds of years of experience, success and failure, war and peace.
He really has no defense, and it's amazing to me that his rabid followers are so unwilling to admit that the man has any warts. Cultlike? Brainwashed? Incapable of reason?
Yes. Yes. Yes. They have given up their individuality and allow themselves to be totally controlled.
Wasn't Cheney, the guy hammering Kerry for being weak on national defense, the guy who headed up a Task Force on Terrorism pre 9/11 that did exactly nothing to defend us?
Yep. The Task Force never had ONE meeting:
The public face of Operation Ignore would be an antiterrorism task force led by Vive president Cheney. Its mandate: to pretend to develop a plan to counter domestic terrorist attacks. Bush announced the tsk force on May 8, 2001, and said that he himself would "perodically chair a meeting of the National Security Council to review these efforts." Bush never chaired such a meeting, though. Probably because Cheney's task force never actually met. Operation Ignore was in full swing.
Franken, Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them, pp. 117-118
pie | Email | Homepage | 03.20.04 - 10:34 am
Excellent point, pie, rock on .
However, I don’t think it was even as concerted as an Operation Ignore, it looks more like Operation Totally Incompetent or Operation These Dudes are too cheesy and self-absorbed to think about the American people, thank you.
.....
Mooser - I'm with you - it really doesn't take much to understand that world war is exactly where we are headed. I've thought so for a long time and if Bush gets 4 more years, he's going to get us all killed.
The independant commission appointed by Bush? Or the request for independant commission to investigate house bribes since the house is republican and would not fairly oversee an in-house check?
Money quote, anyone?
Richard Clarke, Bush Admin Counterror Coordinator, on George Dub:
"Frankly, I find it outrageous that the president is running for re-election on the grounds that he's done such great things about terrorism," Clarke told CBS. "He ignored it. He ignored terrorism for months, when maybe we could have done something."
"It means I'm on the right side when scum like you spew so much bile in my direction."
Yup, if being right means being a supporter of mass murders who have hijacked the U.S.
i want ALL the bushevics to squeal like schpanferkel!!!
(baby pigs)
Shame on you, Ms. Rice. Shame on you.
.
...I.. perhaps you didn't see the earlier thread. Take a look at: http://www.snopes.com/politics/q...uotes/
tyler.asp Damn, now even William F.Buckley has taken to lying. First Colin Powell, now Buckley, does it have to be this way? Why choose policies that must be continuously lied about to get the public to buy into them? What a shame!
I once worked on a calculus problem for a physical chemistry course that seemed to make no sense at the time. It took two of us about two weeks to come up with an answer of zero. Even having gotten the problem "right" it still didn't seem to have any application or to make sense. However...
0 WPD
0 meetings of the Cheney-led terrorism task force
0 percent more safe from terrorism
0 Bush administration credibility
I think I'm going to have to dig up some old homework.
"... How about posting a scan of your DD 214 for us to see.
Chris Tucker "
I was a 91 Alpha, trained at Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio. Did boot camp at Fort Jackson. Did reserve training at 209th Medical Company. Activated for Desert Storm in Nov '91. Platoon was separated from company and attached to 1st Infantry Divison, part of 7th Corps.
As for my DD 214, You think Im going to give out personal information like that over the internet to people who dislike me intensely? Just because I read the posts here doesnt mean I'm as dumb as the rest of you.
What's your experience?
I'll keep trying...
OK, Golden Boy and like-minded people on the right reading this thread, HOW BAD DOES IT NEED TO GET BEFORE YOU ADMIT THAT YOU WERE WRONG?
Politics is all about results. All I'm asking is, when would you think the *measurable* results (go ahead and propose your own measures) have crossed some empirical line? When you're willing to admit that the Administration and the Republican leadership in the Congress have failed?
HOW BAD DOES IT NEED TO GET?
First, I dont have a clue who "AM" is.
"This, of course, comes after an anguished discussion about the immorality of the war in Vietnam, the draft, and the "obscenity" of considering draft resistance a crime. But such nuances and principles are lost on wingers.."
And yet, he still sent troops into Mogadishu and to their deaths without the proper armor to protect them. He sent the military into the Balkans and Kosovo. Suppose his commanders and troops told him how they loathed HIM and ran away to England.
Clinton could have become a medic and saved lives. He could have openly resisted and faced the consequences. Instead, he faked out the military by joining ROTC when his draft notice came and then cut and ran to Oxford. Vintage Clinton - walking the lines of legality in order to leave others holding the bag.
"...US more vulnerable than it was, with troops spread out...More of them being killed by terrorists every day...No one covering the ports, rail lines, etc. back here at home...Federal budget disaster...Jobless recovery"
First, I dont agree we are more vulnerable in the long run.
Second, do you know of an effective plan to monitor the ports? We can't even monitor the border (it didnt start w/ Bush.)
"...Federal budget disaster"
What programs are you ready to cut? I'm all ears. Think your heroes in the Congress will go along?
"jobless recovery"
I guess Bush isnt as good as Clinton was pushing the buttons and pulling the levers of the economy. Because you know, the President runs the economy, right? He provides the jobs and the money and its all his responsibility...
"...Our moral authority gone"
According to who? the French? So?
"...Constitution shredded..."
Yeah, the liberal strict constructionists are suddenly worrying about the Constitution after wiping their asses with it ever since FDR tried to pack the court.
Golden boy, you're just as stupid in the light of day as you were in the middle of the night.
Get a fucking clue and quit sniffing up chimpy's ass.
Golden Boy: It's fun to watch you squeal like a stuck pig. Please keep coming back.
Old Hat
- Hello, Old Hat.
Orrin Hatch called terrorism a phony issue back in 1998, I believe.
But, of course 9/11 changed everything...
Bottom line: The "adults" were told of the terrorism threat by the outgoing Clinton Administration
and the "adults" didn't do a damned thing (gotta get the tax cuts for the rich, don'tcha know) and then the WTC goes "BOOM" and Tipsy Mc Stagger flies scared cross-country.
Hmmm, didn't Bush ignore the Hart-Rudman report and said that Dick Cheney would study the terrorism issue, back in March, 2001?
Hopefully Kerry (or the Democratic VP candidate) will ask Cheney what he discovered about terrorism before September 11, 2001.
the rightards will just say, "Well they worked for Clinton so they are just partisan liberals so you can't trust anything they say."
Oh, to be dumb enough to be a rightard. It would make this crazy, complicated world so much simpler, wouldn't it?
Unfortunately, I don't think I want to have the required lobotomy in order to become one of them.
I know you are, but what am I?
So is Golden Boy typical of the level of thinking in the military or is he an anomaly?
You're one brainwashed SOB. You refuse to accept the truth when it is staring you right in the face. At one point in your life, you were told what to think, when to think, and where to think. It's really too bad that you couldn't move beyond that. I doubt that anyone here wants to listen to your one-note political viewpoints any more. You don't bring anything intelligent to the discussion.
Bill Clinton is no longer the president. The year is 2004, and Bush has been in the Oval office for 31/2 years. You need to move on, Golden Boy. Living in the past is causinfg you to ignore present-day reality.
Tsktsk! Golden Boy whines that Clinton should have volunteered to do something like being a medic during the Vietnam War. But then, so should have Bush! Clinton worked hard to take advantage of his opportunity to get a good education. And he earned grades good enough to get a Rhodes scholship to Oxford. But to listen to the right-wing sissies, Clinton should have given up the opportunity he worked long and hard to earn, while Bush boozed and played his way through school, and graduated with the lowest possible honors, then while cheerleading the Vietnam War, used political connections to get him into the Air Guard and out of the line of fire. And then he even blew off that commitment, failing to show up for duty in his final days.
In order words, people who work hard for the breaks must give them up so that the priviledged and moneyed class gets the rewards they didn't earn handed to them on silver platters. Don't bring up some nonsense about me bringing up Class Warfare. The priviledged class has never shown any class -- ever, on any issue. And they get away with it because people like Golden Boy like being lickspittles for them!
"At one point in your life, you were told what to think, when to think, and where to think. It's really too bad that you couldn't move beyond that. "
Ha ha, first I was a liar about my military service. Now Im just another brainwashed soldier. Hey Pie, do you "loathe the military" as well?
You liberals heap all the blame on Bush. When anyone points out that the world didn't begin on Jan 2001, you whine "Clinton is no longer President." You think anyone outside of this website buys into that Debate 101 tactic?
Golden Boy sez:
"And yet, he still sent troops into Mogadishu and to their deaths without the proper armor to protect them."
Umm, wasnt it George the First who sent troops into Somalia and left Clinton holding the bag?
Golden Boy (and anyone who agrees with him):
I appreciate your earlier attempt at a response. Unfortunately, you're still not answering the question. I know that you're smart enough to understand the question, so I'll try to state it again, with a little more context, in case I wasn't clear before:
How bad does it need to get for you to admit you're wrong?
All of us need to have some kind of internal yardstick to judge when you're on the wrong course. You've been zealously defending Bush, but the 2004 election is, of course, about judging how good a job he's done. Surely you have some idea when the economy, foreign affairs, and civil liberties have been damaged to the point where you have to admit that what you *thought* might have been the right approach didn't work out.
So, let's hear what you think these measures should be: when, in these three categories (the economy, foreign affairs, and civil liberties) will you judge that Bush has done a bad job, and is therefore not worthy of re-election? As I said above, you obviously have your own idea how to measure Bush's performance in these three areas. I don't even care if they don't match mine. I'd just like to hear them.
What were you saying about Debate 101 again?
"Umm, wasnt it George the First who sent troops into Somalia and left Clinton holding the bag?"
Hick,
the mission changed under Clinton. The humanitarian mission became a hunt for Aideed. The military requested heavy armor and AC-130 Spectre Gunships but were turned down by Clinton.
So the soldiers on the ground were forced to use humvees. Many of them would would have lived if provided w/ M-1s and Bradleys. You can read about it in Mark Bowden's book. Its much better than the movie.
Kingdaddy,
I have to run some errands. I'll be back a little later and try to respond.
Oh, so the mission changed. Gotcha. I thought you might be spreading lies again.
Go wash the Cheetos off your keyboard.
what a tool.
Ha ha, first I was a liar about my military service.
OMG, that is so hysterical. I asked if you were an anomaly and you are. America's Nemesis was right.
You loser. I was absolutely correct. You ARE brainwashed and incapable of getting past your hatred of Clinton.
Bush is the president. It's 2004, Rip.
Well, this should be the end of this persona. Look for another coming soon to a thread near you.
I know this discussion is toast at this point but I'd like to add two things:
1. WTF is Philip D. Zelikow doing on the 9.11 commission? Jesus, talk about a conflict of interest.
2. If you really want to fucking nail Team Bush on dropping the Osama ball after Clinton, you want to start with Bush's National Security Directive No. 1 of Feb. 13, 2001, an unclassified but unreleased document. (You can find it on the Federation of American Scientists site.)
NSC Directive No. 1 is an eye-opening document, notable for, among other things:
A. The incorporation of economic interests (read coroporations) into the NSC and;
B. The liquidation of Sandy Berger's interagency working groups causing _all_ NSC work to be handled by Rice and Cheney.
I would love to see any Senator waving NCS Directive No. 1 around on the floor and asking the most obvious questions. I can't believe that no one has paid attention to this document.
Old Hat
Golden Boy: We're not talking blowjbos anymore. We're talking national security. As in, Dick Cheney leaking Valerie Plame's name to the press to blow her cover and therefore liquidating her contacts. Did you know she was an expert in WMD proliferation?
This isn't games anymore. This isn't a hummer from some fat chick in the Oval Office. This is national security that your fuckward Dear Leader is playing politics with. This is life and death. You thugs don't understand that. Let me be blunt: People died when Cheney leaked Plame's name. You fucking un-patriotic asswipe piece of shit. I hate you. I can't fucking stand you. You don't love America, punk. You're anti-American, you piss on the Bill of Rights, you piss on our agents trying to stop nukes from gettting into the wrong hands. You piss on the grave of every soldier who was sent to Iraq to die for lies. You make me want to puke, you cheap chickenhawk pansy fuck.
You are so fucked Golden Boy. You are so, so fucked.
Why don't you tell us how you really feel? Actually couldn't have said it better myself
More Clarke:
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Richard A. Clarke, the former White House counterterrorism coordinator, accuses the Bush administration of failing to recognize the al-Qaida threat before the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks and then manipulating America into war with Iraq with dangerous consequences.
He accuses Bush of doing "a terrible job on the war against terrorism."
Clarke, who is expected to testify Tuesday before a federal panel reviewing the attacks, writes in a new book going on sale Monday that Bush and his Cabinet were preoccupied during the early months of his presidency with some of the same Cold War issues that had faced his father's administration.
"It was as though they were preserved in amber from when they left office eight years earlier," Clarke told CBS for an interview Sunday on its "60 Minutes" program.
CBS' corporate parent, Viacom Inc., owns Simon & Schuster, publisher for Clarke's book, "Against All Enemies."
Clarke acknowledges that, "there's a lot of blame to go around, and I probably deserve some blame, too." He said he wrote to National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice on Jan. 24, 2001, asking "urgently" for a Cabinet-level meeting "to deal with the impending al-Qaida attack." Months later, in April, Clarke met with deputy cabinet secretaries, and the conversation turned to Iraq.
"I'm sure I'll be criticized for lots of things, and I'm sure they'll launch their dogs on me," Clarke said. "But frankly I find it outrageous that the president is running for re-election on the grounds that he's done such great things about terrorism. He ignored it. He ignored terrorism for months, when maybe we could have done something."
The Associated Press first reported in June 2002 that Bush's national security leadership met formally nearly 100 times in the months prior to the Sept. 11 attacks yet terrorism was the topic during only two of those sessions.
The last of those two meetings occurred Sept. 4 as the security council put finishing touches on a proposed national security policy review for the president. That review was finished Sept. 10 and was awaiting Bush's approval when the first plane struck the World Trade Center.
Almost immediately after the Sept. 11 terror attacks, Clarke said the president asked him directly to find whether Iraq was involved in the suicide hijackings.
"Now he never said, 'Make it up.' But the entire conversation left me in absolutely no doubt that George Bush wanted me to come back with a report that said, 'Iraq did this,'" said Clarke, who told the president that U.S. intelligence agencies had never found a connection between Iraq and al-Qaida.
"He came back at me and said, 'Iraq! Saddam! Find out if there's a connection,' and in a very intimidating way," Clarke said.
cont'd:
CBS said it asked Stephen Hadley, Rice's deputy on the national security council, about the incident, and Hadley said: "We cannot find evidence that this conversation between Mr. Clarke and the president ever occurred."
CBS responded to Hadley that it found two people it did not identify who recounted the incident independently, and one of them witnessed the conversation.
"I stand on what I said," Hadley told CBS, "but the point I think we're missing in this is, of course the president wanted to know if there was any evidence linking Iraq to 9-11."
Clarke also harshly criticizes Bush over his decision to invade Iraq, saying it helped brew a new wave of anti-American sentiment among supporters of Osama bin Laden.
"Bin Laden had been saying for years, 'America wants to invade an Arab country and occupy it, an oil-rich Arab country.' This is part of his propaganda," Clarke said. "So what did we do after 9/11? We invade ... and occupy an oil-rich Arab country, which was doing nothing to threaten us."
Clarke retired early in 2003 after 30 years in government service. He was among the longest-serving White House staffers, transferred in from the State Department in 1992 to deal with threats from terrorism and narcotics.
Clarke previously led the government's secretive Counterterrorism and Security Group, made up of senior officials from the FBI, CIA, Justice Department and armed services, who met several times each week to discuss foreign threats.
Instead, he faked out the military by joining ROTC when his draft notice came and then cut and ran to Oxford. Vintage Clinton - walking the lines of legality in order to leave others holding the bag.
Though your information is incorrect, your loathing of Clinton seems rooted in your perception that he fled a military commitment.
If that is the case, then you must hold Georgie W. Bush in equal contempt.
Do you?
If Golden Boy was activated for Desert Storm in Nov. 91 he was a wee bit late.
Donnie, you are right. It was Nov 90. It's been a few years,obviously.
Seraphiel, show me where Im wrong about Clinton. No, I dont hold Bush in the same regard at all. He spent 2 years on active duty flying jets. How could I?
How could I?
Because Georgie used family connections to get into a NG unit, ahead of many more qualified people, and then he went AWOL. This is arguably worse than what you seem to think Clinton did.
> Because Georgie used family connections to get into a NG unit, ahead of many more qualified people..<
This has been debunked. The TANG was short of qualified pilot applicants at the time. ANG. ANG. ANG. Pilot. Pilot. Pilot in case you miss the references and start talking NG as a whole.
> ..and then he went AWOL...<
Again, debunked. This meme won't leave the fever dreams of people who have to believe in it, but nothing in the record supports this and never did. Look up and understand what AWOL means.
suomynona
It has not been "debunked"-it was proven that potential pilots, of whom Georgie was not a "qualified" example, were waiting in line because it was a way of serving without serving in Vietnam. Georgie did awful on the test and then inexplicably jumped the line. Similarly, he is said to have gone AWOL because he didn't show up after a certain point. Maybe he had the best reason in the world for not showing up, but not showing up for whatever reason is all the same, and nothing has been done to contradict the general (or the paperwork, or the other generals) who said he went AWOL.
Dude, sumwon sumteria salmonila, GBTrudeau's paying money to anyone who can debunk it. The charge is very old and the Bush people have been looking for witnesses since it was first levelled. It is true. He is as much of a shit as he looks and sounds. Accept it.
Has been debunked. Bush was qualified for pilot training. Don't know where you get information saying he wasn't, but certainly not from TANG requirements of the time. Endless speculations that quote other endless speculations don't count. TANG qualification guidelines do.
You, like Seraphiel, do not understand what AWOL means or the requirements that cause the military to make such a charge. Any ex-military person including the general you reference knows or should know what they are, even the folks who claim military experience on this site. You can find them easily enough online if you avoid the attractions of the blithering idiot sites. GWB never met NG AWOL requirements in any way. Not even close. Trudeau is looking for people to prove a negative. Makes for a fun time had by all, but is meaningless.
Using the charges like Seraphiel did is handy for rhetorical excess, but not understanding that that is the limit of their usefulness and claiming that they are true is something else.
Golden Boy--
I was disappointed not to see a response. I appreciate you giving the "How bad does it need to get?" question some thought, and it's too bad we didn't have a chance to see your answer.
Kingdaddy,
I didn't have time. My response would be as follows:
The question to me is not "how bad does it have to get, but how much worse could it get?"
The Democrats, want a high tax, highly regulated, protectionist America. This is a great prescription for killing an economy. Also, W/ 9/11, the dot com implosion,, the corporate scandals and the artifical boom/bust created by Y2k, its a wonder things are not far worse. I believe the Bush tax cuts helped counteract alot of those shocks to our economy.
Also, your question makes sense only if Bush is responsible for all the problems we face. I can't necessarily Blame Clinton either (although liberals give him ALL credit for the 90's boom) but most of the seeds were sown before Bush took office. Even if the recession began in March 2001 (some economists believe earlier) Bush's first budget didnt take effect until 2002. The economy didnt just stop on a dime because a new guy unpacked his stuff in the Oval Office.
In regards to foreign policy, I believe we have to deal w/ radical Islam now over there or they will be coming down the road to incinerate our cities.
As for our "constitution in shreds," do you have any specifics? I notice nobody around here has any trouble voicing their opinion about the current Administration.
Seraphiel,
Tell me where Im wrong about Clinton. Here's the info I have, please explain what is incorrect.
Here are the facts:
* Bill Clinton registers for the draft on September 08, 1964, accepting all contractual conditions of registering for the draft. Given Selective Service Number # 3 26 46 228.
* Bill Clinton classified 2-S on November 17, 1964
* Bill Clinton reclassified 1-A on March 20, 1968
* Bill Clinton ordered to report for induction on July 28, 1969
* Bill Clinton dishonors order to report and is not inducted into the military
* Bill Clinton reclassified 1-D after enlisting in the United States Army Reserves on August 07, 1969 under authority of Colonel E. Holmes. Clinton signs enlistment papers and takes oath of enlistment.
* Bill Clinton fails to report to his duty station at the University of Arkansas ROTC, September 1969.
Sounds dangerously close to....AWOL?
So you can google details up, and cut and past right wing talking points, yet when it comes down to actually knowing facts (like when you supposedly served yourself in Desert Storm as if you could ever forget) you don't actually have a clue... and you won't provide actual personal details to confirm who you are. Yeah, real believable you are.
Here's a clue for you, fucknut. Scan in your military Documents. You've already given us all the "details" (*snort*... googled up from that unit's public records no doubt) anyway, but here's where it gets really clever. At least, cleverer than you it seems. Open the scanned image into MS Paint. Every single version of Windows has it. Now select the icon which makes for solid filled rectangles. Place a black box over all the personal details. Now resave the image... and your personal info is eternally safe. Unlike a text document, image documents don't contain historical data, just the code for the color of each dot at each location. Even we stupid liberals can understand that, but not you, oh wise and wonderful right wing "medic". What, don't they have computers in the US Armed Forces? Not ones that can record accurate dates, or casuality figures it seems... Just how many troops DID die in Bosnia/Kosovo again, did you say?
Cretin.
And anyway, why haven't you had your limbs blown of in Falluja yet? We are relying on meat shields like you to take bullets over there to protect us over here... Renlist at once, you pathetic piece of shit. You support this policy supposedly. Die for it. Right now. Go on.
Give me your email address, asshole. Ill send you all the proof you need.Although, I really shouldnt care what a pathetic piece of shit like you thinks.
I notice you didnt bother to refute the facts about your hero's draft dodging. Wonder why...?
Sigh. Golden Boy, why not answer the question? Rather than evade it, or point fingers at what you don't like about the Democrats, or cite the obvious point that no one person is to blame for everything, please answer a simple question:
When would YOU think that Bush had done such a poor job that he does not merit re-election?
It's a simple question. No doubt you have some idea. Unless you think that Bush is right at all times, by definition, surely there's SOME line that he could cross, some outcomes that would be unacceptable.
One reason I ask is, the other people who comment on this blog share your concern about radical Islamist groups like al-Qaeda and Ansar al-Islam. It's just that they differ over how to address the threat they represent. If you believe that Bush is pursuing the right approach, then there should be measures that indicate he's on track...or not. The same principle could apply to the economy and civil liberties--hence my question.
Politics, as you know as well as I do, is a practical exercise, not just a symbolic one, and not just the theater of Whom We Like And Don't Like. You might find more common ground with people on this board--including things they agree with you about, like the Islamist threat--if you approach politics this way. And, in an election year, democratic accountability demands that we hold our leaders to some measures of competence, or else democracy is simply clan warfare.
So, one more time, and then I'll give up: How bad does it have to get for you to admit that you're wrong? "Wrong" here can mean something as narrow as, "Bush does not deserve re-election." And again, pick whatever measure you like.
But don't change the question, please.
"Renlist at once, you pathetic piece of shit. You support this policy supposedly. Die for it. Right now. Go on."
Right after John Kerry, who voted for the war. Who has more blood on their hands? What's your military experience, anyway?
Sounds dangerously close to....AWOL?
Let us assume for the sake of argument that your information is accurate.
George W. Bush disappeared from his Alabama Air National Guard commitment, so why don't you revile him just as much?
Kingdaddy,
You are asking me a vague hypothetical. And that threshold you speak of is tempered by the alternative. John Kerry would be so much worse.
I dont agree with alot of Bush policies. The immigration policy and domestic spending binge are two good examples. I dont see a better alternative on the other side of the aisle.
Regarding the war against terrorism, I see 2 brutal terrorist havens have fallen in 3 years. A third, Libya, has turned over its WMD program out of fear they might be next. Part of the good "blowback" from the war has been the uncovering of the nuclear black market begun by A.Q. Khan, of Pakistan. Where the Bush haters on this site see miserable failure in every minor setback, I see alot of good in the big picture.
So in my opinion, we are far away from a point where Bush wouldnt deserve reelection. I guess if he were to just walk away from Iraq, I would seriously question what the point of it all was. And if he gave into the Democrats' demands to tax everyone to death, I would certainly have reservations. But you are asking me to pick a line that doesn't exist. And in any case, I know the alternative wouldn't be any better.
"George W. Bush disappeared from his Alabama Air National Guard commitment, so why don't you revile him just as much?"
First, Bush spent 2 years on active duty. That's 2 more than Bill Clinton.
Second, he made up all his time that he missed. When I was in the reserves, there were drills I missed also for various reasons. I made them up later. Yet, I received an honorable discharge as did Bush. This Bush AWOL thing is trumped up bullshit, played up by the same crowd who had a different mindset when Clinton ran against Bush Sr and Bob Dole, 2 war heroes.
Second, he made up all his time that he missed.
Yes, that is what the White House keeps saying... But the documents they released don't support that claim.
If they'd put his DD-214 out for review, that would help put this matter to rest, but it certainly doesn't help that Bush lied about releasing his records. In the interview with Russert, when asked if he would release "everything" in order to resolve this issue, he said "Yes," and then, "We did in 2000 by the way." Which is of course not true.
All the deception just makes it look like they're hiding something. Sort of like the way he's running away from the 9/11 commission. Sort of like how he refuses to help find out which of his staffers betrayed our national security for political revenge.
Funny how you can't take what you deal out; And who said I was a fan of Clinton? I didn't approve his wagging of the dog either... That was a pharmaceutical plant in Sudan, and it was only because he wanted to appeal to macho insecure shits like you that he felt he had to blow shit up to appear "tough". But if he dodged the draft for a war he didn't feel he could support militarily, I have no problem with that. However...
"Right after John Kerry, who voted for the war. Who has more blood on their hands? "
Well, if you really were a Gulf War medic, I'd say it was you. Walked right into that, didn't you?
However, John Kerry fought honorably in the Vietnam War; which by your logic entitles him to criticize this war, and any war, no matter what Clinton did (and why do you still care about Clinton, anyway?). And Kerry has changed his support for this war, which is what pisses you off no doubt. You just can't bear it that a honored Veteran, one who originally voted for this current Crusade, now has enormous doubts about it, can you? Now me, being a sensible person, who doubted all along, I'm quite happy to embrace someone who is prepared to change his mind when more facts are known, rather than keep on repeating the same idiocy.
"What's your military experience, anyway?"
Who said I had any? Who said it matters? Only you, who claimed to have first hand experience, and that we all should bow before that experience. I've never commented on whether I have any or not... but I'll give you a wee clue. Military service is compulsory in certain countries... and you aren't even quick enough to realise this is an international board. Who says I'm even American? I will say one thing though; I'm just enjoying myself laughing at someone who is too stupid to realise that the Pentagon doesn't rule America... It obeys what it's President asks it to achieve, and that is a Political decision, and has nothing at all to do with what the Pentagon decides. The debate is defined by Politics; It is a Political decision to send US troops to Iraq to fight and die to supposedly prevent terrorist attacks on the US. If you are too gutless, or just too old and flabby to go and perform that duty, then that's a shame. But you are also too stupid it seems to realise that that is the rationale (current, anyway. It'll change when the political wind changes) as to what the troops are supposed to be over there for. Am I supposed to respect some trolling fuckwit because he doesn't even know how many troops died in the Balkans, let alone why they are now currently dying in Iraq? Puhlease....
"Give me your email address, asshole. Ill send you all the proof you need.Although, I really shouldnt care what a pathetic piece of shit like you thinks. "
Yeah, yeah... big words, little man who doesn't even recall when Desert Storm was. But just because you do care, there's an email address in the relevant fiel
"Give me your email address, asshole. Ill send you all the proof you need.Although, I really shouldnt care what a pathetic piece of shit like you thinks. "
Yeah, yeah... big words, little man who doesn't even recall when Desert Storm was. But just because you do care, there's an email address in the relevant field for you now. But be warned, if you send me anything that supposedly "proves" anything, I will share it with other posters, if they ask to see it. So don't send anything you aren't prepared to stand by publically. And don't worry if you can't handle MS Paint, I'll add those little black boxes if need be. I've no interest in encouraging the kind of stalking that goes on at the Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler. Only obsessed right wing trolls who think only with their fists need to do that.
But don't bother trying to hammer that account with spam or virii; it's not my main email address, I'm sitting behind two virus checkers, a firewall, and various other relevant software... and I'm not daft enough to open file attachments with double extensions.... I don't even use Outlook Express to access it either; such tricks won't work on me, sunshine. I do use that address though to email or recieve people who are likely to be that stupid though; Sadly, the Real Ricky Vandal never got back to me, even though I was polite to him.... But I will be real interested to see what "proof" you get around to sending. Oh yes. Perhaps a picture of you receiving incoming RPG fire onto your unprotected Humvee? That'd convince me you both understood and supported Bush's little war, certainly. So, get cracking then... Let's see what ya got!
And just to add something else, fact fans; I signed the email to the real Ricky Vandal very distinctively. So if "he" suddenly turns back up again and says he recieved an email from that address, don't forget to ask him HOW it was signed.
Do you think though if we could find Al Qaeda's email address, we could mail them and explain to them that, as Spain was a member of the Coallition Of The Billing, Madrid was supposed to be off limits for their bombings now? Golden Wonder here said so!
Golden Boy said:
So in my opinion, we are far away from a point where Bush wouldnt deserve reelection. I guess if he were to just walk away from Iraq, I would seriously question what the point of it all was. And if he gave into the Democrats' demands to tax everyone to death, I would certainly have reservations.
OK, that's a start. I'd guess that you also don't want to abandon Iraq, not just because it would make the whole enterprise pointless, but there might be considerable harm to US credibility, and Iraq would become an even worse terrorist haven than before. And on taxes, you just don't want them to skyrocket to the point where your standard of living suffers, if I understand you correctly.
But you are asking me to pick a line that doesn't exist. And in any case, I know the alternative wouldn't be any better.
Of course that line exists. It's apparently the line that, for many centrist voters in both parties, Carter crossed in '80, and Bush in '92. It's the basis of democratic accountability.
I understand your lack of faith in the unknown that Kerry represents, or what you don't like about him that's known. But we all need to get to a point where we can discuss, as citizens, what our current leadership is doing or not doing right, based on some measures that make sense. We may not all have the same ones, but they do exist, if we look hard enough at our values, our understandings of past history, and our best guesses at the future.
Abandoning Iraq is one for you. If your concern is, "As bad as it is right now for our troops in Iraq, it'd be a lot worse for our citizens if we were to withdraw," that's an arguable point. So is, "Our current strategy in Iraq is generating more terrorist there, and hurting our relations with not just foreign government, but entire populations, like Spain's." We all agree on the goal--defeat terrorist organizations like al-Qaeda, or if it's not possible to eradicate them completely, at least contain them--but we're just disagreeing about the best way to go about it.
You're obviously a bright person, with a keen interest in domestic and foreign policy. So are a lot of people on this board. Please take what they say in the spirit of all of us being American citizens with the same hopes for peace, prosperity, and liberty.
One last comment: just as you find that there's implicitly a lot of agreement over the goals of American politics, so too is there a consensus about the means. In fact, one might argue that the consensus over means--democratic, Constitutional government--should be even greater than the consensus over the goals. Without that complete fidelity to the "rules of the game," our country could easily tear itself apart, or be prey to demagogues and worse. That's also what you're hearing on this board: your fellow citizens believe that Bush stepped over a line not just about policy (how to deal with Iraq and al-Qaeda), but about means (deliber
[Whoops, got cut off...]
...but about methods (deliberately misstating or exaggerating the Iraqi threat and Hussein's connection to al-Qaeda; breaking the impartiality of the intelligence community; crafiting a Nixonian enemies list; locking up "enemy combatants" without hope of a fair trial, or even contact with the outside world, etc.). I hope that you have a line in your mind that the Bush Administration should never cross about how it governs, not just what policies it pursues.
Thanks for answering the question.
Kingdaddy,
I will respond a little later.
"But don't bother trying to hammer that account with spam or virii; it's not my main email address, I'm sitting behind two virus checkers, a firewall, and various other relevant software... and I'm not daft enough to open file attachments with double extensions.... I don't even use Outlook Express to access it either; such tricks won't work on me, sunshine. I do use that address though to email or recieve people who are likely to be that stupid though; Sadly, the Real Ricky Vandal never got back to me, even though I was polite to him.... But I will be real interested to see what "proof" you get around to sending."
First, I dont know who Ricky Vandal is, what the fuck does he have to do w/ me?
Second, After thinking about it, I dont want to expose my IP address to you; will show up in the headers. You obviously know alot about computers and so may alot of other people who share your hatred of Bush and myself.
So watch this space in the next couple hours. Ill provide the proof here and you will undoubtedly move the goal posts on me. Why is this so hard to believe anyway? Do you think military folk voted w/ your side???
If that were the case, Gore wouldnt have had his lawyers throw out the soldiers' votes in Florida.
So in other words, you are chickening out.
I laugh at your attempts to claim you don't know who Ricky Vandal is, especially as he was posting here, and I referred to him, in some of my replies to your last appearence at Eschaton. Remember, when you made a joke about this name, even though it was meant to rain piss down on you yourself?
I laugh even more at the fact that you can't even understand from the posts above what the connection with Ricky Vandal is. English must not be your mother tongue. It's the email address, cretin. I use it to email nuts like you. And nuts like "Ricky".
And I'm absolutely rolling at someone whinging about IP addresses as to why he won't do what he said he'd do, when he was the one who asked for my email address in the first place, and who then accuses me of moving goalposts. I could educate you on what I need to access or damage your PC with an IP address only, but you'd only get even more anti-anti-Bush paranoid... And by the sounds of it, you are screwed up enough as it is already. So I won't. Let's just say that if I'm safe from the big bad IP monster, unless you really don't know how to use a computer, you are safe too.
Of course, it could just all have been a ploy to exorcise your l33t h4xxOr skills, eh? What would you have done with my IP address I wonder? Oooh scary!
"Do you think military folk voted w/ your side???"
Some of them did. Even more will now, after losing loved ones in Iraq for lies, after having benefits slashed and especially after having to post home made armor to the soldiers over there... but nice shifting of those goal posts again! I mean, anything to avoid addressing why you aren't over in Iraq now getting shot to hell to protect us whiny liberals eh?
I said you were gutless. Thanks for proving it.
And just to scupper your little "goalpost" silliness; your military documents will prove nothing more than that you were actually in the military. If Gary Frazier et all, who have also served, say it's good enough for them, I'll quite happily say you've proved that point. But after today's foolishness, I hardly think that'll disprove my wider claim which is that you know bugger all. Gosh, won't it be funny if your own documents disagree with the dates you claim you served, like (say) in Operation Desert Storm...?
Sarcasm there, for inattentive people. Ok, see you in a few hours when I pop back in to see if you've posted those documents!
"So you can google details up, and cut and past right wing talking points, yet when it comes down to actually knowing facts (like when you supposedly served yourself in Desert Storm as if you could ever forget) you don't actually have a clue... and you won't provide actual personal details to confirm who you are. Yeah, real believable you are."
Here you go, fuckface. Choke on it.
http://members.cox.net/f_u_liber...erals/
index.htm
also,
http://members.cox.net/f_u_liber...rals/
saddam.jpg
and, one more thing...
http://members.cox.net/f_u_liber...ls/
Pict0005.JPG
"won't it be funny if your own documents disagree with the dates you claim you served, like (say) in Operation Desert Storm...?"
Wouldn't it be amazing if you were man enough to admit you were wrong?
Let me guess, Im still a chickenhawk, right?
Well, Im in good company. Senator Kerry and McCain both voted for the war. McCain is decent enough not to pretend we were "lied to" and such bullshit. Now go fuck yourself.
By the way, you never mentioned what your military record was?
*laughs his ass off*
I am choking, because you are so funny! I thought you didn't care what we thought, and yet there you are, titling your little pages in such a mature manner...
But anyway! Let's just get a few things out of the way, shall we?
1.) Ooh, you are giving us the finger! So naughty! Here's a little hint for you though; that's not techincally proof of anything... well, except how moronically easy you are to wind up. I assume you took it using a webcam or similar? Next time, you might want to take a picture of you holding a piece of paper which says "Fuck You Atrios Assholes (with today's date underneath)". Another alternative would be to hold up today's newspaper. Something which is a.) Relevant to who you are supposed to be. And b.) accurately dates the time of the photograph. Because as it is, a blurred illegible document doesn't really prove much by itself. And nor does naughty mister finger.
2.) Same problem with the second link. If you accept the chap with the bad finger as being the same chap in that picture (which it's likely to be, at least in my judgement) it only proves that that fellow has been somewhere where there are tents and Saddam pictures. Now...
3.) The first document isn't clearly the one in the 3rd picture. It might be... But if it had been clear that it was, and you'd dated that picture correctly, all 3 pictures would have added up to pretty corraborative proof, as they'd all support each other. No need for further questions. As it is, you are soooooooo close to proving your identity. If you'd have been just a wee bit smarter, you would have done too.
"Wouldn't it be amazing if you were man enough to admit you were wrong?"
What, like you've done so far? Oh wait... that's right. Well, here's my manlike statement (*guffaw*). I'm minded to believe you aren't our usual obsessed troll America's Memory. And, failing an exhaustive search to spot if those images don't appear on the internet elsewhere, I may be inclined to believe you when you say that all 3 are related to you personally, and thus that you did at least serve in the first Gulf War.
However...
Oh fuck you, Sherlock Asswipe. I'm not going to fool w/ you anymore. Your little liberal hamster wheels are spinning away, trying to find a way out of admitting you were wrong.
"it only proves that that fellow has been somewhere where there are tents and Saddam pictures"
You are clearly one huge dumbfuck. Hmmm, wonder where on earth there are likely to be lots of tents and Saddam pictures....
"The first document isn't clearly the one in the 3rd picture"
Take a look at YOUR DD-214. It will clearly show its the same document. Oh wait, you dont have one now do you?
"Let me guess, Im still a chickenhawk, right?"
No; but you are still an idiot who came in here, insulting everyone left right and centre, and then failed to even get the correct dates on his own damn service record, at least with regard to when Operation Desert Storm occured. You then blustered about how you knew better than all of us, because you'd been a medic in the first war. You may be close to proving that, it's true.... But that doesn't mean you know sod all about the political decisions behind the latest war, let alone much else. You've been wrong on the facts, time and time again (Your paranoia on how computers work has already been noted. Hotmail accounts don't show IP address in the header, by the way.) You managed, in the only not so naughty sentence in your reply to be wrong once more;
"McCain is decent enough not to pretend we were "lied to" and such bullshit."
Would this be the same McCain who
" In an interview with The Associated Press, McCain said he believes the public needs an assessment that won't be clouded by partisan division. The Arizona senator said he is seeking a full-scale look not only at apparently botched intelligence on Iraq's weapons capabilities, but also flawed estimations of Iraq, North Korea and Libya and the faulty assessments from other Western intelligence services.
"I am absolutely convinced that one is necessary," McCain said, "because this is a very serious issue and we need to not only know what happened, but know what steps are necessary to prevent the United States from ever being misinformed again."
http://tinyurl.com/3dok2
That sounds rather like he thinks there's been some partisan fibbing, wouldn't you? Or at the very least, some very dodgy partisan conclusion forming... In fact, this is the very same McCain who, only a few days ago said of John Kerry
"I do not believe that he is, quote, 'weak on defense,' " McCain (Ariz.) said on NBC's "Today" show.
Asked on the CBS "Early Show" whether he agreed with Vice President Cheney's assertion that Kerry is a threat to national security, McCain said: "I don't think that. I think that John Kerry is a good and decent man. . . . I think he has different points of view on different issues, and he will have to explain his voting record. But this kind of rhetoric, I think, is not helpful in educating and helping the American people make a choice."
http://tinyurl.com/ytzzc
Gosh, what will this decent man suggest next?! And why aren't you listening to him?
As for my own military experience, well... *guffaw* do try and keep up. Kindly point to anywhere where I've tried to justify my own ignorance by claiming a military background? All I've done is point out A.) we couldn't even believe in your own background as you claimed it and B.) none of that has the slightest influence on whether you are right on policy or not. I mean... Wahey! You have, slightly, proven you may have s
I mean... Wahey! You have, slightly, proven you may have served in the first War. But those innocent people in Madrid are still dead. And now you come here, spewing hate and error, yet insisting about how right you are; Oooh, the scary man is giving us the finger! Yet your service, honorable or dishonorable, true or not, didn't save one goddamn life. I don't need to prove my "military credentials" because I never gambled a persons life upon my having them; I never ignored the deaths of innocents because I couldn't give up my ideological crutches. Tell us again... Just how many troops, how many civilians did die under the entire Clinton watch? You don't even know... But now care to gamble on how many civilians Al Qaeda will kill, yes that Al Qaeda you claim, with all your "knowledge" should have been kept in Iraq thanks to Bush, will kill just before the American elections? Go on big man, how much more innocent blood must be spilled before you will admit you were wrong?
Look at you. So damned ignorant that you can't even send me a threatening email because you don't understand how computers work. You were scared of emailing me... You were terrified of what I might do, with my magical computer powers, even though there's very little I could actually have done. You could have actually sat down and learned, of course. Used your brain instead of your brawn. But oh no... You gave me more power to cause terror than I ever could have had, because you'd rather lash out at those imaginary demons. And you want to tell us how to win the War on Terrorism?
Ha.
But congratulations on not being one of the usual sock puppets. I'm glad you cared enough about us all to prove that.
"You are clearly one huge dumbfuck. Hmmm, wonder where on earth there are likely to be lots of tents and Saddam pictures...."
Dumb enough to not even... no, let's give use a new one, shall we?
Tell me... The AK47. Who makes them? Russia, right? So does that mean every AK47 exists only in Russia? Or can some... gasp... be taken elsewhere? As trade maybe? Or perhaps even plunder? Certainly, none have ever appeared on a barracks wall anywhere, have they?
And Tents... they only exist in Iraq, yes?
"Take a look at YOUR DD-214. It will clearly show its the same document. Oh wait, you dont have one now do you?"
Kindly enlighten us all to how many armies around the world use the DD-214... After all, you aren't allowed to invade Iraq unless you've got one. Oh wait, you still haven't got the point, have you?
But staying with just that picture... You know, I bet I could knock up a very pasable immitation of that form, even if I'd never seen one. All I'd need is to duplicate the general table structure, and it wouldn't matter, at that resolution, what else was on there... there'd be no way to prove what it actually was accurately. And these trucks are mobile WMD labs. And if I only got ahold of your IP address, ALL HELL COULD BREAK LOOSE!
It's good to know such rigorously applied intelligence is defending America's fair shores. Especially from all those WMD's that were in Iraq. Why I saw Colin Powell hold up a vial once... That proves it!
*rolls eyes* Don't make me explain the correct evaluation of evidence too you. Because you wouldn't understand... as I've already done so, see? Look, up there, where I detail what would have been a more convincing proof, and why. It amuses me even more though to know that it winds you up so much. Look kiddies, he's been told that we probably believe him, but if we just add all these little intellectual complications, he responds like a monkey throwing poop, and misses that point entirely!
And why aren't you dead yet. Damn it, save me from Al Qaeda by being flypaper in Iraq! Come on, big simple answers for us idiotic liberals. Die for freedom. Do it!
Or is the simplistic approach actually the problem? If you don't answer yes or no ONLY, I am afraid I might have to raise my middle finger at you. Or something.
"who came in here, insulting everyone left right and centre, "
Wrong. The first time I visited the site I was polite and I got nothing but bile and insults back. Im respectful of those who are respectful to me on this site. Kingdaddy has been decent to me and I try to give him the same respect.
"and then failed to even get the correct dates on his own damn service record, at least with regard to when Operation Desert Storm occured. "
Nice Al Franken tactic. A technical error washes away everything else. "Nyah nyah, you got a date wrong." Big fucking deal. I forgot the date I was activated. If I make a spelling error, does that mean everything else I say is wrong too?
"Hotmail accounts don't show IP address in the header, by the way"
Wrong! Go to Options/Mail Display Settings. Oh my! You got a techical detail wrong!!! Everything you say must all be bullshit. Al Franken would be proud of me.
"Would this be the same McCain who"
Tell me, where oh where in your links is McCain saying that Bush lied? He says "misinformed." What the fuck does that prove? On Larry King, Bill Clinton said, "It is incontestable that on the day I left office, there were unaccounted-for stocks of biological and chemical weapons." I could roll down the list of Democrats who made similar statements but what does it matter? "Bush lied" is all you liberal filth will believe, no matter what.
The only reason my military background even came up is that you jackoffs were calling me a chickenhawk and telling me to go die in Iraq. For some reason, you all found it inconceivable that I might have served. Your assertions about the military vote and Bush are laughable, by the way. Bush has given the military 2 pay raises and boosted defense spending by around $100 billion annually. And if you saw Bush's speech to the 101st Airborne the other day, you would have noticed how the troops whooped it up for him.
"none of that has the slightest influence on whether you are right on policy or not."
Funny, it seemed to make a huge difference when I was being told I was a bloodthirsty chickenhawk and to shut the fuck up .
"I never ignored the deaths of innocents because I couldn't give up my ideological crutches. Tell us again"
Oh really? You ignore the innocent deaths suffered at Saddam's hands. Dont they count, Mr Compassion?
"Just how many troops, how many civilians did die under the entire Clinton watch?"
Rather vague statement. In Somalia, 18 U.S. soldiers were killed and another 77 injured, inadequately armored because the Boy President was afraid of world opinion. And for what? Was Somalia a greather threat than say, Iraq? Who knows how many civilians died in the bombings in Kosovo and Bosnia. Unlike you, I dont claim to know every fact about every incident.
" But those innocent people in Madrid are still dead."
Only a vile liberal fuck like you would have the temerity to blame America for that. Perhaps if
we turned tail and run, the Islamofascists will leave us alone? Unlikely. Islamic radicalism is flourishing throughout the Middle East and we can either deal with it now or tomorrow will bring a grim lesson in the folly of appeasement.
Nice dodge on McCain and Kerry, by the way. Again, both voted for war and yet I dont see them trying to reenlist. Hillary is a huge chickenhawk. She never served a day in the Armed Forces and yet she gave the go-ahead as well. I hope your disdain is equally spread.
As for my pictures, all you asked for was a blanked out DD-214 form. I gave you more than that and then you moved the goalposts even further. Perfect example of how you liberals think about politics in general.
Now Golden Boy, I've explained this before...
ROTC is NOT obligated service for a new "recruit." Here are some key facts about ROTC that most people don't understand:
If Bill Clinton had chosen not to go to the University of Arkansas and stayed right in Little Rock, he would have had NO obligation to join ROTC, unlike what would have happened if he'd signed up for active duty/guard/reserve.
If he had chosen to attend another university right here in America (say, Arkansas State), and he chose not to sign up for ROTC there, he wouldn't have been obligated to serve in ROTC at ASU.
If he failed out of the University of Arkansas while in the early stages of ROTC, he wouldn't have been obligated to serve in the miltary unless he was drafted or volunteered for active/guard/reserve.
Clinton would have been eligible for the draft for any of those circumstances, of course, but he was NOT obligated for ROTC, because he was not attending the University of Arkansas. NOTE: Being accepted is not attending. The ROTC obligation is dependent on attending the college where the ROTC service would take place AND meeting certain requirements to continue taking part in ROTC.
If you want to say Clinton made a promise but didn't fulfill it, fair enough. But it was a promise that only his word bound him to, not any law, civilian or military. If a man promises to marry some girl but changes his mind later, he's not obligated to marry the girl. Same principle. It may be loathsome to behave that way, but it's not illegal. In any way.
The oath of enlistment isn't binding, either, nor proof of any kind of being obligated to serve. Anybody who applies for a federal job and receives, then accepts, a job offer must take the oath of enlistment. But, if I receive a better job offer the day before I'm supposed to start work for the fed, I can tell them to stick their job and do what I want. It's the same thing for ROTC, under most circumstances.
So try again.
Lj,
Thanks for not cursing at me. Ill give you the same respect.
You may be right on the technicalities. Either way, it doesnt matter. Clinton found himself a loophole. THe key point is he went throught the ROTC rigamole in order to get out of the draft. He was drafted but the ROTC dodge preserved his "politcal viability," as he said in his letter to Col Holmes. Whether he was technically AWOL or not, I dont really know.
Bush spent 2 years on active duty flying jets. He made up his time missed in Alabama and received an honorable discharge. Only a true-blue Bush hater would compare the two(and again, they didnt give it a second thought when Clinton ran for President twice against 2 war heroes.)
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