I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Ha, it had to catch up with him sometime.
Down down down!
Catch the Comedy Central/ Jon Stewart clip on Dick Clarke. That had to push Bush down.
The more folks separate the situation on Iraq from meaningful action on terrorism, the lower those approval numbers will go.
Bush is the limbo preznit.
How low can you go, georgie?!
Lower still, I think. Heheheheh.
Obviously liberal media bias. Newsweek would never use the headline "Blow for Clinton".
Why does America hate George Bush?
*Grin*
Slightly OT but worth listening to something Daniel Schorr mentioned this morning on week-end edition.
He outlined what he had been told by a Democratic fundraiser who had lunch with Bill Clinton last week. Clinton apparently related a detail about what happened during the personal briefing traditionally given by the outgoing President to the incoming President over coffee just before the inauguration.
Clinton claims he said to Bush that he had 5 important issues to deal with on the international stage:
1. Palestine/Israel
2. Al Qaeda
3. North Korea
4. India/Pakistan
5. Iraq
Bush apparently replied that he didn't entirely agree and he'd take number 5 first.
Mmm, if this trend continues...
It's about time people started realizing this! I just hope the feeling lasts through November.
Look what the Pickler has to say today:
Kerry Slams White House Attack on Clarke
By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer
KANSAS CITY, Mo. - John Kerry (news - web sites) said the White House is committing character assassination with its treatment of former counterterror chief Richard Clarke to avoid responding to questions about national security that Clarke raised.
"I don't think people want questions about character; I think they want questions about our security to be answered," Kerry said Saturday. "That's what this is about."
Kerry also said Condoleezza Rice (news - web sites), President Bush (news - web sites)'s national security adviser, should testify in public before the commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks.
"If Condoleezza Rice can find time to do `60 Minutes' on television before the American people, she ought to find 60 minutes to speak to the commission under oath," Kerry told reporters. "We're talking about the security of our country."
[there's more]
When Nedra Pickler wrote that story about John Kerry, she neglected to include some irrelevant details designed to refute what Kerry had said.
Well, Monica beat me to it...
Give 'em hell, Kerry!
Rember the most important part of Clarke's testimony:
The Bush administration played a con game on America by taking us into a war in Iraq.
Even Clarke himself said 9/11 was probably not preventable, but the actions of the Bush White House AFTER 9/11 were unethical to the point of criminality.
Some of the press i've read on CLarke doesnt even mention his criticism of Bush's handling of the attacks, focusing instead on the "preventable or not" question, yet still giving Bush a free ride on the Iraq hustle.
The press and the Dems in Congress need to start nailing Bush on his actions AFTER 9/11.
Our sovereign Atrios stated: When Nedra Pickler wrote that story about John Kerry, she neglected to include some irrelevant details designed to refute what Kerry had said.
What better evidence can there be that the tide has turned than Nedra cannot make an irrelevant asinine statement in a story?
hesiod reports
that french investigators have fingered al-zarqawi as the mastermind behind the madrid bombings.
this'd be the fellow who didn't get killed so the admin could claim terrists in iraq, non?
bush better turn the fan off quick.
So can we assume his overall approval rating is a "lagging indicator", as they say? Where's the basement here (where the freepers dwell)? I say 38%.
And does the old maxim about an incumbent below 50% (he loses) hold here as well?
Chimpy McStagger is previewing the ads he and his henchmen are planning to air starting tomorrow.
Be sure to decontaminate your hard drive after viewing with the appropriate cootie-killing solution.
Wow. I took the msnbc poll. Either it's been massively anti-freeped or people are really, *really*, starting to hate the Bush Administration.
This is great: the veil is finally listing.
This is scary: you know those bastards aren't going to stand by while their toys are voted away from them.
>>she neglected to include some irrelevant details designed to refute what Kerry had said.
While she didn't pull a complete "pickler," she did manage to quote BushCo politicization of terra in defense of a BushCo assertion that Kerry was politicizing terra:
>>Bush campaign spokeswoman Nicolle Devenish said Kerry and other Democrats are trying to politicize the work of the commission.
"John Kerry seeks to distract Americans from his own failed ideas for protecting America from future attacks," she said in a statement. "John Kerry's backward-looking approach would return us to the failed policies of treating terror as a law-enforcement matter."
Still remains and ever-will-be a hack.
Re: Nedra... well that's just astonishing. Then again, maybe she took my advice and read some of those books I recommended to her last time I emailed her. Specifically, On Writing Well by Zinnser.
Maybe she went on a detox diet and purged the kool-aid from her system. Hey, stranger things have happened. 
What's really heartening about those numbers is the 34% "more likely". Since 2000, the media has told us the country is evenly divided between hardcore Bush lovers and hardcore Bush haters. Most of us thought it more likely 45% of each and 10% that could be persuaded either way. Now we see Bush's core support is below 35%. Those people will never be convinced, even if he eats puppies on TV. I'm just glad to see it lower than I had thought.
bush ate a puppy?
does santorum know?
The press and the Dems in Congress need to start nailing Bush on his actions AFTER 9/11.
justathought | Email | Homepage | 03.27.04 - 4:31 pm | #
Going after Bush negatives at this point is a bit like that gameshow with a guy in a clear booth with $20 bills blowing all around him.
Any idea whom the wavering percentage represents?
I figure 30 - 40% hardcore for or against Bush. But what segment of voters keeps swinging back and forth? I would expect once they swing away from Bush, it would take a "major" event to swing back.
dammitall, even this Newsweek article is omitting Clarke's criticism of Bush's handling of 9/11 and focusing on the "preventable" issue.
Dont let the Bush administration and a complicit media change the topic of discussion.
Remember it was AFTER 9/11 that the High Crimes REALLY started
Love that poll on MSNBC- should completely ruin bushco's weekend and drive condi to even more desperate babbling tomorrow on the sunday talk shows.
It seems the truth can still set us free. Isn't that a nice thought?
The Clarke pre-9/11 assertions are directly tied to the post-9/11/Iraq War stuff. The administration doesn't see transnational terrorism as important as state-based threats. We'll have time to get into the post-9/11 stuff, but it's all related.
Is this where we can start talking about the oil?
Iraq was issue #1 since day 1. Saddam hated AQ. He feared an Islamic revolution. I am NOT convinced that 9/11 wasn't allowed to happen. With world domination in sight what's a few thousand innocent lives. IMPEACH Bush
Spirit...
I actually know quite a few swing voters. They are all engineers and CS guys.
None of them would vote for Bush at this point. (about 1/2 of them voted for him last time) Although none of them seemed to know very much about Kerry.
I think that while a major event might swing a few to Bush, the more likely scenario is:
1. Significant negative campaigning discourages them from voting altogether.
2. Dramatic positive news in several categories (non-stem cell research breakthrough, general economic upturn, terrorism news) encourages them to vote for Bush.
I think #1 is much more likely, which is why it would be a good idea for Kerry to respond to negative ads wioth positive ones.
Advice for Kerry:
At every opportunity say: "George Bush's failure to prevent the 9-11 attacks is not an issue in this election."
Just keep saying it. For a change-up, you might try, "The failure to find Weapons of Mass Destruction is not an issue in this election."
The effects might surprise you.
Check out this chart (which I found on The Blogging of the President site), which graphs the approval ratings of Bush 1 and 2, Clinton, Reagan, Carter, and Nixon.
Dubya's steep decline almost mirrors his dad's
(Weird thing is how Clinton's and Reagan's ratings almost mirror each other across two terms -- except Iran-Contra was a bigger hit for Reagan than impeachment was for Clinton.)
Liberals always misunderstand polls. Popularity is a lagging indicator of how well a president is liked, and President Bush has so much pander stimulus in the pipeline that a surge is right around the corner. If you really want accuracy, you should use the household popularity survey. The vast majority of the people in my household who ever want to eat again think Bush is dreamy and hope he serves another term.
44 percent of all voters approve of his handling of the war . . .
I continue to be astonished at the level of stupidity of the American electorate. Close to HALF of my fellow citizens still approve of how he handled the war? Strike that. We did elect Ronald Reagan TWICE so I actually shouldn't be astonished. "Thank you SIR, may I have another!"
Don't be an asshole. Vote Democratic.
gonzo - Sometimes it seems as if we in the U.S. are the only ones who aren't talking about the oil.
Via Buzzflash, 24 Lies the Bushies Have Used Against Clarke.
Obviously liberal media bias. Newsweek would never use the headline "Blow for Clinton".
Good point, especially considering that "blow" has another slang meaning, one with more relevance to our exalted 43rd president. When will these latte-drinking media elites get the message that a consensual act between a 35-year-old and his cocaine dealer is none of the public's business?
[Tee hee! Three years ago I would have been above that kind of scandalmongering! Thanks for elevating the discourse, Preznit Bush!]
Huh? Am I missing something. The week that Clarke drops an A-bomb on Bush his ratings in one respect drop but his OVERALL approval remains steady at 49 percent. In fact the story says there has been NO significant change in approval ratings of the three candidates a week ago? Where is the good news in this?
Personally, I don't think the whole Clarke thing is accomplishing much more than to solidify people's earlier positions.
If something like this can't push Bush down a few points in overall approval, I'd say his attack-dog strategy is working pretty well.
What am I missing? Splain it to me.
For What It's Worth, here are some $$$ numbers -
Bush Campaign Finance Totals and Details
Kerry Campaign Finance Totals and Details
Yup. Ralph could really do it again!!
What a guy.
According to the latest NEWSWEEK and Newsweek.com Genext poll, the feisty Nader, widely blamed for Al Gore’s defeat in the 2000 election, drew twice the support among voters aged 18-29 as he did in a comparable poll of all registered voters. The groundswell of youth support could mean good news for Nader, and perhaps more significantly, for President George W. Bush.
No, just rex, the Bushie's will just use that as another excuse to slam the Spanish for "letting the terrorists win" and for pointing out that Iraq harbors terrorists. They will neglect to point out that they had the opportunity to catch said terrorist and no one will bother to ask, either.
Tena, et al. I figured that if I came over to Atrios and brought it up a hundred times or so, somebody in a position to do something would notice, and perhaps BOING!, a little light would go on and the whole oily scummy plan would become crystal clear.
But I've lost count.
Brief - well the Repugs plan seems to be working, vis-a-vis Nader, doesn't it? Since most of his funding is coming from Repugs, as reported today in the Dallas Morning News, I guess we know what and who the Nader candidacy is supposed to help, don't we?
Fucking Nader - hypocritical son of a bitch.
Damn, I saw that headline:
BLOW FOR BUSH
and thought I had been re-directed to the GOP Team Leader site.
IS this NEWS??
NPR's All things Considered lead feature this afternoon has R. Clarke calling for full declassification of all his testimony, as well as his Jan. 2001 plan and the later Sept 10 plan the Admin addopted. He says release show they are the same and the issue is the 9 months it took to act.
The White house DECLINED to comment on Clarkes call for declasiification of materials.
Sorry if this is redundant... it was news to me.
Wow, look at the difference in the web numbers and the Newsweek poll numbers. Are web users generally more anti-Bush than the overall population?
Also, the Newsweek poll does show that the majority of those polled are unaffected by Clarke's testimony. 65 percent say it hasn't changed anything and 10 percent say they feel more positively about Bush.
gonzo - I think the whole scummy, oily thing could be exploded if we could get the definitive answer on just what the hell was talked about during Cheney's energy council meetings.
Fat Tony Scalia should be kicked off the SC.
Yeah, I don't see what looks so good in those numbers either.
The outrage of people here is not shared in any significant degree at all by those polled. But maybe I can't read the numbers right either.
Yeah, I don't see what looks so good in those numbers either.
The outrage of people here is not shared in any significant degree at all by those polled. But maybe I can't read the numbers right either.
Yeah, I don't see what looks so good in those numbers either.
The outrage of people here is not shared in any significant degree at all by those polled. But maybe I can't read the numbers right either.
Well, I hate to recount this story, because it really took the wind out of my sails for a minute. After my letter was published in the Dallas paper, I got an email from a friend of mine who is a liberal. She said I had made a good point - she hadn't realized that Condi Rice had refused to testify under oath to the 9/11 commission. That one sent me to the wall where I bang my head repeatedly.
However, she has been having a lot of family problems lately, so she's been distracted. I hope.
Yeah, I don't see what looks so good in those numbers either.
The outrage of people here is not shared in any significant degree at all by those polled. But maybe I can't read the numbers right either.
Anonymous asked the question, why hasn't Bush's overall approval numbers changed, why only his approval numbers on the war on terrorism?
It's certainly a little bit puzzling -- you'd expect to see SOME shift in those overall approval numbers. I suspect that other polls WILL show a downward shift.
But one way to think about the overall approval numbers vs. Bush's numbers on the war on terrorism may be this.
When someone begins to disapprove of Bush overall, then a final straw has broken the back of his feeling of approval. What Clarke is doing is may not amount yet to the last straw, but is piling on all kinds of prior straws.
We just need a few more signs of Bush's signature incompetence, and he's GONE.
65 percent say it hasn't changed anything
Yeah, that's how I voted. I thought Bush was an asshole before, and my opinion hasn't changed. And that view is obviously shared by the rest of the respondents.
Why the confusion?
OT
It would seem that while Condi may not have the time to go before the 9/11 panel, she does have plenty of time to threaten The Jamacian government over Aristride.... Acording to Democrats .com....
"Rice has pointedly threatened the Jamaican Govt, telling it to expell President Aristide out of the region. As this is a clear measure of how much broad support the president still enjoys as the democratically elected leader of Haiti inside the country, because the US apparently views his mere presence in Jamaica as a threat to their control along with the thugs and the installed govt in Haiti......So far the Jamaican govt has refused to back down"....
Meanwhile the summary execution of Aristride followers have continued to occur.....while The French and USA troops are standing by watching...
And The USA has the nerve to tell everyone else about freedon and democracy!! You guys are going to be so fucking unpopular all over the world soon that it is going to cost a fortune to pay for all these conflicts!!
You know what W's saying right now?
Blotchy: "Say, Dick--do you think one of my Dad's friends wants to buy this presidency off of me? Cuz man, it's looking like time to bail! This whole thing is going down the crapper, and I'd like to unload it before things get ugly."
Dick: "Uh, Mr. President, you can't just sell the presidency..."
Blotchy: "Wha? Why not? That's what I always did before. Can't you arrange something? Sort of like we did with the Rangers? How about the House of Saud? Think they'd be interested?"
Dick: (Stares at his charge in speechless silence, mouth agape.) "I dunno, Mr. President. Let me talk to Tony and I'll see what we can do."
Way OT, but this kinda bummed me out:
Jan Berry, a member of the duo Jan & Dean that had the 1960s surf-music hits "Deadman's Curve" and "The Little Old Lady from Pasadena," has died. He was 62.
Berry had a seizure and stopped breathing Friday at his home. He was pronounced dead that evening at a hospital, said his wife, Gertie Berry.
He had been in poor health recently from the lingering effects of brain damage from a 1966 car crash.
Jan & Dean had a string of hits and 10 gold records in the 1960s with their tales of Southern California. Among them were 1964's "The Little Old Lady from Pasadena," about a hotrod racing grandma, and "Surf City," with its lines about taking the station wagon to a place where there are "two girls for every boy."
With Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys, William Jan Berry co-wrote the lyrics for "Surf City" and "Deadman's Curve," which featured the driving guitar licks and falsetto crooning of the wildly popular surf music.
Berry's hit-making career with high school friend Dean Torrence was cut short in 1966 when Berry's speeding Corvette hit a parked truck and he suffered severe brain damage that left him partially paralyzed and unable to talk.
His recovery was slow, but eventually he was able to resume singing and writing songs.
Tena:That's very unfortunate, but that's reality. The stuff we know about, normally would fly under the radar of pretty much everybody. These days, a growing number are able to get the information to spread it around (That's why we'll win completly eventually)
And yes, it's all about that energy meeting.
Laptop:Don't worry about it. I didn't see it myself. That's amazing. Clarke is taking the fight right to them. He expected the attack dogs, and he was ready to take them on.
Amazing. You know, if all (ok, more than one or two) conservatives were like that we might be able to have a real debate on the issues.
dave - sorry you are bummed. I saw a show some time back about Jan Berry, and it included a concert at the end. He really wasn't in very good shape - it was kind of sad, really.
I better put the plexi glass in front of the TV before I watch Rice on 60 Minutes. "Get the kids out of the room honey; daddys gonna be yelling at the TV again".
I despise Bush but you guys are engaged in a mass hallucination. The numbers, more than an indictment of Bush and his policy, are an indictment of the intelligence of Americans.
Let's remember that Clarke is attacking a policy and decision (to invade Iraq) that the VAST majority of Americans approved, even retrospectively after the WMD proved to be a fiction and after soldiers were being blown to pieces daily. They identify with Bush and probably find Clarke's behavior an affront to their own positions.
I'm surprised no one in the press has brought up Wesley Clark's remark about being phoned on 9/11 by BushCo to start the Iraq war-drums beating. Just another thread in a rich tapestry being woven by those who chose to not drink (or stop drinking) the neo-con Kool-aid.
As to the 44 percent who still approve of Chimpy's handling of the war: Wake up and smell the obfuscation!!! Then again, it's hard to de-program a True Believer.
/long road to November...
the bushies bluff is being exposed.
they would never released classified accounts/statements because it would expose ms Condisliar to be a liar and Bush to be a dump-lazy-fuck if there ever was one before 911.
Clarke still has more stuff in his little pockets yet. He is just waiting for the bushies to empty their ammos then he will finish them off w/ a bang.
i never can find any poll on that shitty site.
and i have to see, it will be nice to know that the rich re pissin away all their $ on the chimp.
Does anyone know if the recent return of Karen Hughes to the Butch White House was planned or has she been called in to save a sinking ship. She and Rove are constantly at odds as to strategy but Matlin's take is "they're a left brain, right brain" team---yeah, of Frankenstein's monster.
As Cheney refuses to release the energy meetings I will fill it in. Our energy policy is to take over Afghanistan so we can build the pipeline, take over Iraq, take out government of Venezuela, assist oil rich African countries to ah ah fight terrorism. Then we will give the middle class a small tax break and allow record high gas prices to eat that extra money up.
Wes Clarke's phone call about blaming Iraq should be brought up again. If the democrats don't tie Clarke's charges to the energy meetings, they are politically retarded.
This actually gives greater hit points. Call a press conference. Ask Cheney to release the energy records voluntarily without having the Supreme Court make him to prove they weren't plotting taking over Iraq in the spring of 2001.
Cheney will say No of course, but he is still saying no now. Forcing the issue publically just inflicts another hit. Therefore if Scalia is the tie breaking vote, we can tie Scalia and the duck hunting in as well.
I think pie's got it - those polls are so poorly worded that I had a hard time when it came to that question , because Clarke's testimony didn't change anything for me, either. Besides, we all know what polls are about. And don't try telling me that Bush is so popular. I know better. I see signs of growing disgust with him almost every day around here.
I still believe, too, that there are a significant number of people who say they support the war because they believe they are supporting the troops when they support the war.
harangue-o-tang, no the vast majority did not want to go to war without UN authorization, so Bush turned up the WMD threat level, and then more jumped on board the runaway train.
Also, realize, please, that most Americans aren't getting the really bad news about Iraq - no coverage at Dover, funerals, grief, Walter Reed, men minus limbs. Chris Matthews did a show the other night about the limbless soldiers. Anyone watch it. The ads were bad enough.
Most people who were deceived about Iraq won't vote for Bush in November.
Then there's the economy and Medicare and Social Security.
georgie is going to lose by a much greater margin than his father. He will finally best him.
Congratulations.
Bush would be toast if you had a real media that did not want to cover for the Chimp.
If this was Clinton, he would be dead in the water by now. But the media do everything they can to spin for Bush.
I hope one day the media pays a very high price for their actions over the last 5 years, but I doubt it will happen.
Look, the importance of the Clarke revelations isn't that they are going to cause an overnight collapse in Bush's support. It is rather that it provides an alternative narrative for his handling of our response to 9/11.
Previously he was veiwed as nearly unassailable on this issue. Now, if someone wishes to vote against Bush for some other reason, and they are pretty numerous, he doesn't have to feel that this issue is trumped by national security. Now he can choose to believe Clarke's version of events.
This is a slow process that takes time to work its way into the general consciousness. It is a long term blow to the legend the Bushies have created. It is a leak in the dam. A slow trickle that will do nothing but increase as folks find other reasons to jump ship.
As to the 44 percent who still approve of Chimpy's handling of the war: Wake up and smell the obfuscation!!! Then again, it's hard to de-program a True Believer.
Yep. And I suspect most Americans are thinking something like, "Yeah, he fucked up, but there haven't been any more attacks on American soil. Why should I switch to Kerry and risk changing that?"
When I saw "Blow For Bush" I momentarily thought, "my god, they've caught him doing cocaine on the job."
Who is interviewing Rice tomorrow on 60 Minutes.
I will only get pissed IF the questioner is not hard on her.
This was the week when Bushie’s delirious fantasies for a second term went thuddy thudding all the way down 
.
.....
harangue-o-tang, is that what Americans are thinking? Have you talked to any republicans or fence-sitters lately?
I have. hee hee.
The Kerry locomotive is moving foward, the Bush dweeb train is moving backward .
.....
RE: Why no media outlet seems to be bringing up Clarke's assertion about Bush wanting to immediately invade Iraq.
This was bothering me too until I realized (I think, correct me if I'm wrong) that the commission is supposed to be looking into events that led up to the 9/11 attack, why intelligence failed, etc.
What Bush did after the attack (invade Iraq) is a whole different ballgame. And hopefully, a whole different commission can be appointed that can drag out THAT question in detail over the summer.
I'm hoping for a one-two punch ... Let's look at how they blew it by not protecting us, and then once that dies down ... Why did we invade Iraq anyway when there were no WMD's?
The webpoll has a big problem as it's not random but self-selected, and I think that we are affecting the results considerably. On the other hand, neither is the Newsweek poll truly random, as anybody who thinks about how answers to telephone polls are actually obtained would know. They have to call several times the number of people they want to have to get answers. Most people refuse telephone polls, and my guess is that those who answer are more likely to be older people and/or people who are not working. This might oversample the conservative segment of the population. In fact, polls have gotten worse and worse over the last decade, and it's scary that they can affect opinions. The NPR had a good show on this a few weeks ago, i.e., how the pollsters push and force people to say something even if the respondent has no real idea what to choose.
Ed Bradley is interviewing Condasleaza tomorrow. FYI. Guess 60 minutes didn't want the Bushies to accuse a white reporter of racism for being hard on Condi.
I'm not so sanguine about the latest newsweek poll results..it just floors me that so many people can still support w...it's incredible. what the hell does it take to wake them UP. JEESH.
the above should have been signed samlex....JEESH.
Ed Bradley.
I expect you to do your job!
Who is interviewing Rice tomorrow on 60 Minutes.
Ed Bradley.
The Whites of Their Lies
I've stuck my neck out before - and have the 360 degree stiches to prove it - but this post made me think twice and three times before sending it out. Instapundit and Oxblog are just plain lying about the Washington Post's coverage of Clarke.
This is a slow process that takes time to work its way into the general consciousness. It is a long term blow to the legend the Bushies have created. It is a leak in the dam. A slow trickle that will do nothing but increase as folks find other reasons to jump ship.
Wishful thinking. Just as likely is the opposite scenario. The hole will be plugged....by the capture of Osama, by some colossal fuck-up by Kerry, by successful intervention in a terrorist plot.
We are dealing with fascists -- people who have utterly no concern for the truth and literally, for one example, created a propaganda office inside the Pentagon to spin intelligence. Yes, this is a gap in their narrative but it's not Rosemary Woods' tape. This is not Watergate. Bush is not accused of a crime.
Who is interviewing Rice tomorrow on 60 Minutes.
I will only get pissed IF the questioner is not hard on her.
attaturk | Email | Homepage | 03.27.04 - 5:48 pm | #
Oh no, no, no, we all know dear ole Condi as the nice girl next door, except seemingly with a Tonya Hardingesque propensity for wacky and mendacious behavior, on top of which we already know she was laughably inadequate in her knowledge and comprehension of the Taliban and AQ.
But all that means nuffin, she looks good and dresses great, anyone who is mean to her is just gonna look mean.
Be very nice, (very, very) skeptical but very nice indeed. .
.....
Most people take awhile to switch over sides. Clarke won't do it alone. It's the death of 1,000 cuts.
Joe Wilson's book is coming. John Dean's. Kitty Kelley. Michael Moore's Farenheit 911. Then you have the SC ruling on energy. The medicare cost, and vote bribe investigation. Tom Delay is about to be indicted. Gas is going to go up to $3.00 a barrel. Any one of these things alone won't do it. All of them together is going to start peeling away Bush's vote count. It's a matter of time, and we have 8 months of stuff like this to go.
I just love these comments by certain posters. The feigned outrage is just so...
obvious.
Susan G,
there is the commission that will be looking at pre-war intelligence; however, for obvious resons, BushCo is trying to keep the commission from looking into whether they manipulated intelligence. We need to push hard to ensure that the commission does do this. We also need to push for the commission to get its work started ASAP and to have some form of preliminary report or public hearings before November. However, as the commission deals w/ intelligence, the GOPers will say that nothing can become public until the final report after the election.
We are dealing with fascists
I can certainly relate to your pessimism, harangue-o-tang, but don't forget, the New Deal beat Fascism the first time around--and the notion of a modern liberal republic beat the theocratic/oligarchic vision of the south during the Civil War, too).
The key is to fight. If the Dems do not gel into a genuine opposition party, backed by populist political energy in the streets, then I agree that we are fucked.
But it ain't over yet.
harangue-o-tang, is that what Americans are thinking? Have you talked to any republicans or fence-sitters lately?
I am responding to the poll not to personal interviews, which I would not consider broadly representative.
Look, I hope to hell the asshole is blown out of the White House. But I am very doubtful that will happen because of Richard Clarke's testimony.
I'm thinking about Lyndon Johnson and Vietnam. Opposition to Iraq hasn't reached anything like the critical mass that forced Johnson out. Is there a reason it'll be different this go-round?
Let her do her own stuff to her own creds, she does it to herself every single time. Just like with that smooth line about the memos that were in some basement, then it turned out they had indeed come to her office, then it turned out she was informed about them, but then it turned out she just forgot. Just like the briefings from Sandy Berger which she said she couldn’t remember, but then now the WH says they are not in dispute .
Let the audience make up their own minds and after she is gone, everyone has plenny of time to do their own analysis and head-shaking over it .
.....
"I just love these comments by certain posters. The feigned outrage is just so...
obvious."
I am a democrat, and I support John Kerry, but bush will win.
Oh, the humanity.
I saw a show some time back about Jan Berry, and it included a concert at the end. He really wasn't in very good shape...
After the accident in '66, he literally had to relearn how to speak, read, write -everything. It took years to even get to that point, but eventually he was able to get back up on stage and perform. He even got married a few years ago.
Well, it's just a matter of time before they all start kicking off - Berry was the same age as McCartney, Jagger... I think Brian Wilson's actually older!
Kerry is whipping up on the WH for smearing Clarke, and on Condi for appearing on 60 minutes but not before the 9/11 Commission.
http://tinyurl.com/3yhds
*Praying for one of those 60 Minutes "gotcha!" moments with Condo tomorrow.*
Richard Clarke will be on with Tiny Tim tomorrow on MTP.
Get the popcorn ready...
.. errr... maybe a little early for popcorn.
Irish Coffee maybe.
Is there a reason it'll be different this go-round?
We didn't have cable or the internet back then. The worm is turning on Condi. I don't see her saving her ass tomorrow night. Then Monday rolls around.
New week. Let's pick up the story where we left off.
This is not Watergate. Bush is not accused of a crime.
Yes, it is (actually, it's worse), and yes, he is.
harangue-o-tang
your missing the point about all this. The foundation of the Bush administration is rotting. It is all built up upon lies, deceit and sheer power. We all have known this for a long time. Now that a growing number of brave individuals have stood up against this attack machine, and the number of scandals are growing, the voters are now beginning to see Bushie in a completely different light. They are beginning to notice the rot.
Harangue-o-tang, it looks real enough and you are right, there is a material difference between now and what we understand of the time.
It is not one thing, it is the cumulative effect of a lot of things, the Clarke testimony is just one more confirmation of several threads of information that have already been floating around, as this unfolds, this leads to consolidation of the opinion of those who were always skeptical of Dubya and brings more of the swing to our side.
Second part of the cumulative effect is growing concern that Bushie simply doesn’t get it, not just he doesn’t grok that he basically sucks at foreign policy and the economy, he seems determined to go around and lurch and make decrepit remarks to keep on keeping it right on.
This sends a message loud and clear, the way we will get the changes is to make the changes right from the top in Election 2004.
People are calmer now, but just as determined, and they are shore gonna bounce Bushies sorry tuchas all the way back to his hokey palokey ranch in Waco, Texas in November 2004 .
.....
BTW, think Bradley's doing the Condo-lie-zzzzzzzzzzza interview...
Trifecta is right. It is a process. And the process is taking over the Bush campaign. And there is something else I've noticed, and it's growing. It is clear that liberals who sometimes don't bother to vote are going to turn out in droves this November. I have heard so many people say "This is the most important election of my lifetime."
I'm willing to bet that other than the fundies and other hardcore, there are not so many on the conservative side who feel that way.
"Wishful thinking. Just as likely is the opposite scenario. The hole will be plugged....by the capture of Osama, by some colossal fuck-up by Kerry, by successful intervention in a terrorist plot. "
The scalps slipped out, and now Pakistan is having an internal revolt.
Richard Clarke will be on with Tiny Tim tomorrow on MTP.
Oh goodie.
WHOO HOO!
Atrios will probably do an open thread while Clarke is on. More history, folks. You know, everytime in this fucked up country's history, someone like Clarke steps forward.
You got it, Jime.
Hey guys, I would love to stay around here longer. You are really great. However, I have got to leave now to see out future president John F Kerry speak at a rally tonight!
And you know Russert want cut him any slack like he did Stumblebum. And Clarke has no problemo appearing on his show.
Integrity
The other discouraging thing in the poll numbers is the 65% who believe The Clenis did not take terroism seriously. Some of the bullshit is sticking.
Selah.
From the Kerry story. AND I QUOTE:
"If Condoleezza Rice can find time to do `60 Minutes' on television before the American people, she ought to find 60 minutes to speak to the commission under oath," Kerry told reporters.
dave - "Well, it's just a matter of time before they all start kicking off..."
God, cheery thought, that, since it's only a matter of time before we all start kicking off. The only three deaths that have had a great effect on me are the deaths of John Lennon, Jerry Garcia, and then George Harrison - when George died, I cried all weekend. When Bob Dylan goes he'll take part of my soul with him.
"If Condoleezza Rice can find time to do `60 Minutes' on television before the American people, she ought to find 60 minutes to speak to the commission under oath," Kerry told reporters.
Trifecta
Boy, Kerry is back-handing them before the last words even leave their mouffs.
Wishful thinking. Just as likely is the opposite scenario. The hole will be plugged....by the capture of Osama, by some colossal fuck-up by Kerry, by successful intervention in a terrorist plot.
I actually don't know if that would make a difference at this point. They've unravelled so badly that I think they're done for. I bet they've already started stealing staplers and pens.
OK, I'm playing a bit of the devil's advocate role here, but I am responding to the statistical reality represented in the poll. My hope, related to what others have said, is that the Clarke revelations haven't sunk into the average American's brain yet. (My neighbors do not refresh every news source on the web every 20 seconds.)e Perhaps, if the Bush propaganda machine isn't sucessful, the reality will begin to dawn on the average American.
I certainly agree that the foundation of the Bush presidency is "rotting." I'm not questioning that. I'm looking at what is being reported in polls and I am not so sure the rot will proceed rapidly enough to unseat him. I hope so.
No, Bush has not been accused of a crime, as somewhat here argues. (At least I am unaware of that.) Even Clarke has not accused him of a formal crime. The "crime" so far has been incompetency. You can talk about agendas of self-enrichment, lying, etc., but nobody has produced a "smoking gun" to use the term to describe the criminal evidence upon which Nixon's resignation hinged.
Anyway, I'm trapped in my mountain cabin, like the Unabomber, trying to finish my doctoral dissertation. So, my pessimism is probably displacement.
Have the Iraqi's greeted us with flowers yet? Has terror went down?
Please let me know because I must have missed it.
Stirling - Oh, shit - if Pakistan really erupts - oh shit. The entire middle east/south asia is teetering on the brink.
Anyone who doubts what it going on - just look over in the right margin here. "Arlen Specter's job performance rating is lower today than it has been in over a decade."
You think that isn't part and parcel of this entire Repug election situation? It is. And as more and more Repugs up for re-election turn away from Bush and the Bush affect, it is going to kill him.
The only numbers I could find in thes story were:
>...approve of the way the president has handled terrorism and homeland security has slid to 57 percent, down from a high of 70 percent two months ago.... Still, the president’s overall approval rating remains steady at 49 percent
No seperate figures for Iraq war broken down as Atrios quoted. Has it disappeared down the memomry hole already, or am I missing the quoted paragraph.
real address garlpublic and then naturally at comcast dot net. Just avoiding autoharvesting, don't care if real people have my email.
Does anyone think that we wanted Haiti as a way station for the Afghan heroin runs to fund the CIA's secret wars?
I'm not optimistic, either. Still have over a year left.
~ahem~ Over half a year, that is.
Sorry found the numbers, buried in near the interactive poll link.
In terms of optimism: there is some reason to be optimistic. What RC is revealing is not new (though he adds detail). The significant point is that the press is reporting it. If half the population has heard of it now, three quareters or more will by the end of next week.
For once the press is not covering 100% for AWOL. If the Heathers turn on him even a little bit this is the beginning of the end for him.
There is a reason why Bush's graph is called "the cut down Christmas tree...
Oh man, this should be fun. Saddam has Jacque Berzes (sp?) who is FRENCH (there you go Cornerites) and is going on about Saddam's former friend Rumsfeld being a witness.
Something for everybody there I guess.
Sorry forgot to mention it looks like Berzes is going to be Hussein's lawyer.
I'm not one to cry wolf and I've got a catch
I tell ya.
I'm feeling better. I just read that GWB wants high-speed internet access for every American by 2007. (No plan how to do it, but it's a good thing.) I can't wait to spread the word among the crystal meth makers and unemployed folks in the trailers dotting the mountain I'm on.
So, did anyone see that NBC Network News, tonight says polls show the Clarke debacle had no impact on the President's poll ratings? They credit the White House and Frist with successful counterattacks.
That's funny Anonymous, check out the headliine at MSNBC...
BLOW FOR BUSH
Public confidence in the president’s handling of homeland security has been damaged by the testimony of former counterterrorism chief Richard Clarke to the 9/11 panel, according to the latest NEWSWEEK poll
yes, i saw the nbc thing. but this has yet to play out. still i wonder how the right can go screaming the media is liberal. they gave them the war in iraq and bush gets almost a total pass on some rather egregious blunders.
actually the most disturbing thing is i don't think they are left or right but only interested in what will increase the bottom line. fkn whores.
Hey harangu, that's so the cable motherfuckers can charge $60 a month for Internet access. My cable bill just keeps goin up and up.
the point is that we were all over the Clarke testimony, we listened, watched and blogged it. Much of the rest of the country didn't even know much about it. It will get through to them, but it takes awhile. And it's only the beginning - there are so many more scandals to go-
Kerry needs to present real plans to the people now. Real plans for keeping the country safe, and for solving the economic problems we have in spades, thanks to the Bushies. It'll get through.
Re: the broadband for all: Is that before or after we go to Mars?
Re: the broadband for all: Is that before or after we go to Mars?
the point is that we were all over the Clarke testimony, we listened, watched and blogged it. Much of the rest of the country didn't even know much about it.
Exactly. What's all this the populace isn't reacting crap?
This is gonna happen faster than Watergate? People will be watching condi tomorrow. Who among you really think she's going to convince the wavering? If it's true that Clarke has said that he wants his former testimony released, that will be included.
They've lied. They've been caught. There's no saving themselves.
This IS gonna happen faster than Watergate.
No ?
Wow, folks, the right wing Vichy media is in Full Spin Mode, it is all the fault of ABB – anybody but Bush.
No mention of Bushie’s dweebie obsession with iWaq that Clarke talked about.
.....
Maggie Carlson is in full frontal hatchet mode , gosh that is laughable, our handsome, cute, stalwart dude, genuine American war hero and she dutifully starts with the kvitching about him.
She didn’t like how he was dressed, oh my.
Oh right, we forgot, Lurch and Decrepit is much better .
.....
People will be watching condi tomorrow. Who among you really think she's going to convince the wavering?
pie:
Don't suppose CBS would do a I-want-to-keep-my-FCC-license reversal and facilitate Condi doing a hit-job on Clarke?
I missed Clarke the first time, so I don't know if that's even possible. But I gotta wonder why they'd let Condi go anywhere near 60 Minutes if they thought that anything even remotely approaching a real interview was going to take place.
Any thoughts?
"ou think that isn't part and parcel of this entire Repug election situation? It is. And as more and more Repugs up for re-election turn away from Bush and the Bush affect, it is going to kill him."
I am working on a another "by the numbers" piece for bopnews right now that won't give the Republicans any warm fuzzies.
The ultimate answer back to the White House's "press release" about Kerry (which is pasted below):
"Bush campaign spokeswoman Nicolle Devenish said Kerry and other Democrats are trying to politicize the work of the commission.
John Kerry seeks to distract Americans from his own failed ideas for protecting America from future attacks," she said in a statement. "John Kerry's backward-looking approach would return us to the failed policies of treating terror as a law-enforcement matter."
Here is what the Kerry campaign should say:
"John Kerry's "failed" ideas? John Kerry's ideas, if implemented today would bring together the world community considerably better than what we are seeing around the world now (refernce recent world opinion poll)
The policies of the president have only served to alienate and distance our allies, not inspire and unite them in *our* fight against terrorism that we have tragically seen recently is *everyone's* fight.
Cooperating with the world community and NOT alienating it would be considered an improvement over the george bush's ACTUAL tried and FAILED policies.
That John Kerry's policies have not even been attempted by this careless administration, only to witness them call John Kerry's policies as "failed" only shows how much the bush administration wishes to distance itself from it's own horrendous foreign policy.
jack - well said.
Moli, you're 100% right. Limbaugh already was whining all last week about how it was "unfair and unbalanced" that CBS (Owned by Viacom which does in fact publish Clarke's book BUT DID disclose it, though NOT during the actual interview) BushCO is going to want even play. Only softball questions and ONLY on condi's terms.
Sad that she can't go testify under oath. EVEN IF they are softball, that she chooses to do this and not meet with the commish ONLY HURTS them and their credibility even more softball or not.
The polls will SLIP even further after it, forcing her to possibly resign.
Powell is probably wondering what the fuck is happening since he was snubbed in Spain last week. Gotta be tough to be a man who had such credibility up to 9/11 see it vanish as the regime's stooge. Expect some stuff to happen there too.
Watergate man. It's the 70's all over, ... Yea, baby yeaaaaaa!
None of the Vichys want to talk about Part 2 of Clarke’s testimony the dweebie obsessiveness of Bushie with iWaq.
.....
jack - "It's the 70's all over,..." um, can we skip the platform shoes this time around?
Topic : Anything But Iwaq!
Iraq, where’s Iraq?
You mean we have troops in Iraq!
.....
moli, I have absolutely no problem with Rice going on 60 Minutes tomorrow, (like this hurts their ratings )
Equal time. Let's see what she does with hers. I'll be watching.
Yeah, except Watergate didn't come to fruition until after Nixon was reelected. Let's just hope this DOES play out faster, because we don't have Gerald Ford this time.
Something I've wondered for a while: If people are cold-called for presidential popularity polls, if at least a couple percent would lie and say they like Bush because they're afraid to say they oppose Bush to an anonymous caller. You know, people might be taking Ari's advice and watching what they say...
yea I wondered that too. IF people are starting to wake up, you can imagine how skewed or inaccurate the polls are for just the reason you said. Fear. I can see that under bushCO.
Nbc nightly news didn't show this poll. What they showed was a POLL with 65% believing Bush has done a good job handling the war on terror and that RICHARD CLARKE had not changed their mind. THEN after showing 'PUBLIC OPINION' they showed BILL FRIST and his outrage as though the two agreed. Bush will use this issue to say, ALL OF MY ACCUSERS, ON EVERY ISSUE ARE LIARS. The irony is, if there is 'perjured' testimony it will be the first BUSH ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL to be held accountable after years of lying. Bush will end up winning by indicting his own culture of bad faith.
then George Harrison - when George died, I cried all weekend.
We were lucky because we had (have) small kids. The day after, or so, they had a charming clip of George on Teletubbies, playing guitar and singing with a bunch of kids. Because Teletubbies is geared toward the 18 month old crowd, they played the segment twice. It really was wonderful.
And 60 Minutes can come closer to a "real" interview if Bradley asks some questions that Rice insists she can't answer or trips up again. Every word she says is going to be dissected.
She's moving closer to testimony under oath. If she refuses, she's done.
Can you say sacrificial lamb? So fitting for Easter.
" I just read that GWB wants high-speed internet access for every American by 2007."
Sounds like the 21st Century version of "Two Chickens in Every Pot"
Giving Rice the old heave-ho (emphasis on "ho") will do wonders for Dear Leader's image as a "strong leader" after 9/11 changed everything.
Pass the popcorn.
OMG LOL!
Rice looking a little loaded on...something.
george bush will shed Condi before cheney...Yea that's a campaign oriented to credibility and popularity.
Condi is going down on her sword for the chimp but will powell? Powell fought the good fight but we did not know the full story behind it nor did we expect the outcome to be so utterly failed. He's hurting and his credibility as the FACE of the United States abroad and in official state business is hurting us back which he is lumped as part cause of and part victim of.
How incredible...Just 3 1/2 years. Is this a record?
"jack - "It's the 70's all over,..." um, can we skip the platform shoes this time around?
Tena "
And no Disco! Please! no Disco!
You know, I caught most of Clarke's testimony live on Pacifica, and that was so much more dramatic than reading excerpted portions of the transcript in the papers it aint funny. How much of the country had access to the live version? Or should I ask how many took advantage of it's availability? Clarke flayed the Bush Admin with style and grace, leaving quivering lumps at the table before him. Almost literally, in the case of Big Jim Thompson. OOh, that had to hurt, and Clarke never even raised his voice. I hope a LOT of folks are tuned in tomorrow (almost wish I had a TV) to see what he does to Timmy Boy. It aint gonna be pretty.
No one could possibly resign now. It will open the floodgates.
I hope a LOT of folks are tuned in tomorrow (almost wish I had a TV) to see what he does to Timmy Boy. It aint gonna be pretty.
I wonder if he has an ace up his sleeve that he's waiting to play. We'll see...
Sorry, I smell a rat on Condi on 60 Minutes. I don't think they'd send her on unless the outcome was preordained. I'm sure the Whitehouse has gone over all those questions a million times before they submitted them to Bradley.
Ok, guys, you've got to get with the program. I'm reading Clarke's book right now. How many of you have actually read it? Yeah, that's what I thought.....the average American DOES NOT READ!!!! They like to have their information handed to them by Peter Jennings or Fox News (though there's often little difference between the two). Only 15% of Americans have passports, who knows how many people actually use them. 25% have advanced college degrees (and again, who knows if they are ever used). What exactly do you expect out there? Bush gets away with everything he gets away with because he understands people are undereducated, underinformed or downright uninterested. Does this help explain his 49% approval numbers? Only those that pay attention are incredulous that he hasn't been run out of town on a rail by now....
that's just it. It WILL open the floodgates but watergate is ETCHED in our minds as much as the McCarthy hearings were in the 60's and 70's.
I firmly believe that at some point even partisan hacks have to think intelligently and realize that in times of crisis, political gain or partisanship trumping national security and American credibility, like we are seeing now MUST STOP. Powell, a good soldier who did the bidding of his boss (a job he ACCEPTED) is seeing the results of such a failed endeavor. As a soldier who worked for both Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush II he was always taking orders for his COUNTRY not his party.
A soldier, regardless of party should always choose country first. What bush did, and recently with his over-the-top insensitive and irresponsible (not to mention just plain fucked up) joke about WMD's after Colin poured his soul in to his presentation EVEN while knowing it was "full of shit" was basically slapped in plain view of the whole world.
The Secretary of State is above all supposed to be the Consumate Diplomat. When you have journalists stand up and WALK OUT on you and when other heads of state SNUB you at state-sponsored events abroad, that is a sign you are not welcome. Diplomat-non-grata in effect. He's a eunuch but a eunuch as SecState is worthless.
A president cannot be jet-setting all over the world at all times but a SecState can and should as our ambassador. It's kinda tough when the reception is less than warm everywhere you go...even AS you sit atop the worlds largest nooklar stockpile on the planet.
Something is gonna give. Lets hope the COUNTRY can survive it. The GOP can go to hell for all I care...And they are.
oops, sorry, I had my "glenn reynolds" info in there after a joke post on CounterSpin. OOps!
Wow, sections here are Stealth Troll Central-
Since 60 Minutes allowed Hadley to rebut Clarkes' allegations on last week's show, will they invite Clarke to rebut Condi's excuses tomorrow night......
.
This poll wasn't as good news as some think. Bush still leads narrowly and 50% think Clarke was motivated by politics (vs 25% who don't). Seems as if the sliming of Clarke has had an effect.
"I'm a war-blogger" - Glenn Reynolds.
This poll wasn't as good news as some think. Bush still leads narrowly and 50% think Clarke was motivated by politics (vs 25% who don't). Seems as if the sliming of Clarke has had an effect.
Let's wait until Rice testifies in public under oath. I think she'll be forced to. Clarke just asked that everything, all documents, meetings, be declassified so he just lobbed a big ol' grenade at them. There's also the X-factor of someone else getting fed up with these assholes and pulling another Ellsberg.
Also, Kerry is weighing in with some zingers:
KANSAS CITY, Mo. - John Kerry said Saturday the White House is committing character assassination with its treatment of former counterterror chief Richard Clarke to avoid responding to questions about national security.
Kerry also said Condoleezza Rice, President Bush's national security adviser, should testify in public before the commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks.
"If Condoleezza Rice can find time to do `60 Minutes' on television before the American people, she ought to find 60 minutes to speak to the commission under oath," Kerry told reporters. "We're talking about the security of our country."
The Bushies are really worried about all of this.
If anyone is expecting a quick knock out blow then they're smoking something really good.
Last week was tremendous and Richard Clarke was the reason why.
Since most of America ( not this savvy blog crowd ) typically only understand sports, sex, and sensationalism news let me pose this sports metaphor on how I see this fight going.
Ali vs Frazier III - Manila, 1975
(one of the greatest fights of all time)
The Dems = Ali ( more intelligent and quicker on their feet )
The Repukes = Frazier ( pit bull determined like their attack squads).
Ali’s torrent of pre-fight abuse ( kudos mainly to Clarke ) showered at Frazier again set the scene another boxing classic - the infamous “Thriller in Manila”.
A well of personal animosity between the two champions attracted a mammoth worldwide audience of 700 million who tuned in to watch the sparks fly.
Sweltering temperatures in the arena and incredible punching from both men led to one of the most gruelling contests in ring history.
After early Ali dominance Frazier hit back in the middle rounds and by the 10th there was nothing to choose between the pair.
It was in the 12th that Ali again established his superiority with a devastating two-handed attack.
This continued for the next two rounds until Frazier’s trainer Eddie Futch threw in the towel at the end of the 14th round.
In contrast to the pre-fight barrage of insults, Ali was a gracious winner describing his opponent as “one hell of a fighter”.
Trust Clarke: He's right about Bush
and we will win !
Down goes Fraziah! Down goes Fraziah!
Ladies and Gentlemen:
The tide has turned. Go to the NYT and see the David Johnston article for tomorrow' paper. This stuff is explosive!
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/2...ics/
28PANE.html
OT/ Did everyone else already know this?
org/extra/0404/fox-ratings.html">The Ratings Mirage
Boy that makes me feel better. I was rather worried "more people watch FOX than any other news."
grrrr
http://www.fair.org/extra/0404/f...ox-
ratings.html
You know, Condi Rice has been looking like a Leroy Neiman painting lately.
Does this help explain his 49% approval numbers?
And in the last presidential election, the percentage of eligible voters that actually did so was...
Well?
heh.
Go sick 'em Richard!
Richard Clarke, the former Bush adviser who has said the president's emphasis on Iraq undermined U.S. anti-terror efforts, says he welcomes a Republican suggestion to declassify documents from his days on the Bush team. Clarke says he wants to "stimulate the public debate" on how the U.S. government is doing in the war on terrorism. NPR's Libby Lewis reports.
http://tinyurl.com/2ka6r
Jeebus Christ,
Awesome!
I posted yesterday that I couldn't wait until Clarke would say, "yes, please release my testimony. I encourage everyone to be as open as possible so that the American people can get the truth!"
Clarke is the real deal, and he can take care of himself. By the time he's done, Frist will be peeing in his pants and Bush sent back to Crawford.
You got it, pie, less than half. Wonder how many of these people that participate in these silly polls actually vote.
jr, after the article says that the Bushies' defense includes Condi, who will try to minimize damage on 60 Minutes, smearing Clarke (but not addressing his assertions), and of course, BLAMING the Clinton administration, we read this:
Instead, the evidence suggests that Mr. Bush allowed the terrorism issue to drift down the list of White House priorities from the relatively high importance given it by President Bill Clinton's national security aides. For the most part, Mr. Bush advisers told the commission that they continued the operational activities of their predecessors.
How the mighty have fallen.
O.K. I haven't seen any responses yet to the NYT article!
Here is the beginning:
"In the summer of 2001, according to witnesses interviewed by the independent commission investigating the Sept. 11 hijackings, President Bush was told repeatedly of terror warnings pouring into American intelligence agencies, mostly about threats overseas.
The director of central intelligence, George J. Tenet, who briefed Mr. Bush on threats almost daily, "was around town literally pounding on desks saying that something is happening, this is an unprecedented level of threat information," said Richard Armitage, the deputy secretary of state, who was quoted in a Congressional report last year.
But even as the warnings spiked in June and July that year, there appeared to be little sense of alarm at the White House, officials of the Central Intelligence Agency told the commission. It was not until Sept. 4 that Mr. Bush's national security team approved a plan intended to eradicate Al Qaeda and not until Sept. 10 that Mr. Tenet was told to put the plan into effect."
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/2...ics/
28PANE.html
pie,
this is so incredible to see this in the NYT! It confirms all that we knew to be true! And what do the Bushies have to say about it!
Certainly not respond with any substance!
"The White House strategy also involves what officials said would be a continued effort to discredit Mr. Clarke and to confuse the dispute with a battery of accusations and counteraccusations intended to increasingly make this dispute appear to be a partisan fight between Republicans and Democrats.
"Our analysis is that the Democrats were so eager to thrust the 9/11 hearings into the political arena that they resorted to an overreach that kind of ignored some basic facts that the American people know about President Bush," said Nicolle Devenish, Mr. Bush's campaign communications director. "The world was watching in the days and weeks after 9/11."
Wonder how many of these people that participate in these silly polls actually vote.
If the economy sucks, they tend to vote...
And just look at the cornucopia of issues we have here.
I see a spike in the voting %'s this time. God told me.
Poor georgie.
Certainly not respond with any substance!
You got it, dude!
pie...and I thought only Pat Robertson had a direct line with God!
Personally, I doubt that the 60 minutes appearance is going to hurt Condi. Even though she is an inept liar, no journalist or interviewer that I have ever seen is willing to call her on her lies, like Stahl did to Hadley last week. It was probably just luck that Stahl was able to refute Hadley's bald-faced lie. Even then he stood by it. And then of course, there was the idiotic "But the speech, the speech."
I think some posters here have vastly underestimated the importance of Richard Clarke. He single-handedly shook up the 9/11 Commission and forced the media to take another look at the competency of our chimp-in-chief.
The media know that this guy is highly credible, and now have a freer hand to take a second look. Remember, his most important point - the reason he wrote his book, really - is that he has made America less secure after 9/11. As a result, we know get stories like today's WaPo article by Glenn Kessler, which discusses the fact that many policy experts concur with Clarke's outlook.
This just didn't get any print before.
"...Clarke's complaint resonates with some other former administration officials. Rand Beers, who served as counterterrorism chief after Clarke, has voiced the same complaint and is now foreign policy adviser to Democratic presidential candidate John F. Kerry (Mass.). Flynt Leverett, a former CIA analyst and Middle East specialist who left Bush's National Security Council staff a year ago, also agrees.
"Clarke's critique of administration decision-making and how it did not balance the imperative of finishing the job against al Qaeda versus what they wanted to do in Iraq is absolutely on the money," Leverett said.
He said that Arabic-speaking Special Forces officers and CIA officers who were doing a good job tracking Osama bin Laden, Ayman Zawahiri and other al Qaeda leaders were pulled out of Afghanistan in March 2002 to begin preparing for Iraq. "We took the people out who could have caught them," he said. "But even if we get bin Laden or Zawahiri now, it is two years too late. Al Qaeda is a very different organization now. It has had time to adapt. The administration should have finished this job."
Jessica Stern, Harvard University lecturer and author of "Terror in the Name of God: Why Religious Militants Kill," concurs. "It was a distraction on the war on terrorism and made it more difficult to prosecute because the al Qaeda movement used the war in Iraq to mobilize new recruits and energize the movement," she said. "And we apparently sent Special Forces from Afghanistan, where they should have been fighting al Qaeda, to Iraq."
Rice is not under oath for one reason: Bush is afraid she'll be asked several questions that could bring the house down. What are they? Beats me.
But it might be something like, "Did you ever tell Bush that planes might be used in a terrorist attack on the United States?" Another might be, "Did Bush tell you before U.S. troops went to Afghanistan that he intended to attack Iraq?"
Here's what Bradley needs to say tomorrow night: "I'm not interested in what you think of Clarke, but I want the answers to these two questions: Clarke says Bush was not urgent about terrorism: Do you have any documents that will disprove that? And will you release them?"
Kid Noir,
exactly.
It is really bad for them b/c they have nothing! All they have is "Bush gave a 2000 campaign speech at the Citadel" and "at one meeting he said he didn't want to swat flys anymore!" That is it!
Okay, so far we have sour grapes-out of the loop-perjurer-partisan-inept-profiteer.
Any takers on the next line of attack against Clarke?
Child molester? Embezzler? Cross dresser?
cls180, one thing I've learned is that ANYONE can have a direct link to God.
I can't believe the people that have claimed that.
And if they can, well, we all can.
They tried to accuse him of perjury. BUT THE POULTRY WOULD NOT PECK.
Condi: I can't really talk to the substance behind your question, Ed but I can talk to the spirit of it. All of us were very interested in preventing and fighting terrorism before 9/11. What I did or did not tell or not tell the president or not president before or after 9/11 is or is not of the concern or no-concern, but rather what we did or did not do after 9/11 concerning the war or lackthereof on terrorism."
Ed: "How about the president's speech...Good, huh!"
Condi: "Yes, Ed, our president has shown steady leadership in uncertain times."
Ed: "He certainly has, Condoleeza. He certainly has. Now what about Richard Clarke, the man who Cheney said was "out of the loop?" If he was out of the loop, wouldn't that be, as the nation's top counter-terrorism chief, you know, NOT be engaged in the fight of terrorism as you put it, since being IN the loop at such a level would mean that you, Cheney and Bush didn't include him in any policy/strategy sessions to begin with?"
Condi: "Yes, Ed that speech was very good."
She's one of the worst liars I've ever seen in major politics. And I don't mean lies the most, I mean she's not very good at it. She's the Joe Isuzu of national politics.
Which is why I can't believe they'd let her go on 60 Minutes if the fix wasn't in. And I wouldn't be surprised if they threw the race-card big time in the coming weeks, since Novak already beta-tested it with Rahm Emanuel the other day.
Shame on the press/democrats. Not only does it/they reveal it's liberal bias, but it demonstrates how secretly racist and sexist it is!
For Clarke to have asked for disclosure of all documents tonight on NPR would seem to negate Frist completely.
Why wasn't that used on NBC's report? Why hasn't CNN mentioned it?
AP? Reuters? It's as if they're not even following the story.
Does anyone see any possibility that Colin Powell comes forward before all is said and done and finds his soul as a patriot once again? He appears to be very lackluster in his support for the Bush party line this week. Think he might quit his job and start talking?
shame on the press/democrats? Tell me that is from a right-wing posting somewhere...Novak, the bush SHILL saying that? They TOLD HIM to say that! That they would say that about their own African American NSA in the hope of injecting race into it PRE-interview (with an African American journalist mind you) is absolutely the lowest.
And they say Karl Rove is a genius? He's a fucking MISERABLE FAILURE! (god karl I hope you read this you miserable fucking BASTARD!)
Seems like the proverbial sh*t is hitting the fan...
From U.S. News and World Report (hardly a left wing rag):
The White House retorted that it was working on a complete overhaul of the policy, a necessarily lengthy process. Reports by the 9/11 commission staff track closely with Clarke's account of the period and point out that the plan eventually adopted closely resembled Clarke's January proposals. The commission also notes that two veteran officers of the CIA's Counterterrorism Center were so frustrated by the slow pace of policymaking in the summer of 2001 that they considered resigning and going public, which would have been a shocking breach of protocol.
http://tinyurl.com/2zt6a
I think some posters here have vastly underestimated the importance of Richard Clarke. He single-handedly shook up the 9/11 Commission and forced the media to take another look at the competency of our chimp-in-chief.
The media know that this guy is highly credible, and now have a freer hand to take a second look.
Jr., good point, but do you really think Vichy media is sitting around talking about the incompetence of Bush? .
I suppose you could call Mo Dowd’s op ed hinting at Bushie’s Daddy obsession as some kind of slanted hint at Bushies’s incompetence. .
I suppose you could call Tommy Friedman’s yearning for a Kerry McCain ticket (not gonna happen, it’s still Wesley Clark, naturally) as some kind of slanted hint at Bushie’s incompetence. .
But Vichy media is still looking like dancing around Bushie incompetence and not confronting his bungling, bamboozling, hype, hoke and hucksterism head on. .
.....
Clarke has been devastating...
And worse is to come. In a few months former diplomat Joseph Wilson, will publish his book, an account of the build-up to the war in Iraq, called The Politics of Truth. Wilson last summer accused the White House of ignoring evidence in its efforts to show Iraq had WMD. The White House responded by leaking the identity of Wilson's wife, an undercover CIA operative.
That scandal led to a criminal investigation of White House staff, which is still ongoing. Clarke's book is just be the start of a long summer of revelations.
I really need to buy more popcorn.
From the NYT article:
But even as the warnings spiked in June and July that year, there appeared to be little sense of alarm at the White House, officials of the Central Intelligence Agency told the commission. It was not until Sept. 4 that Mr. Bush's national security team approved a plan intended to eradicate Al Qaeda and not until Sept. 10 that Mr. Tenet was told to put the plan into effect.
Yeah, that is all bad enough, it still doesn’t explain why still on September 10, Rumsfeld was still planning to make Bush veto $600 million in counter-terrorism, why they cut $1.5 billion in CT, why they thought nekkid statues and hookers were more important.
.....
CNN just woke up. It's handling the Newsweek poll as bad news for Bush and playing Clarke as hurting the Bush campaign.
Also any White House hope that Clarke would finally go away or that the liberal media would lose interest got, so to speak, another blow tonight. Clarke's added to his appearance on Meet the Press, a later Sunday shot on Late Edition with Blitzer, and Monday night with madman Matthews.
You know, Condi Rice has been looking like a Leroy Neiman painting lately.
Moli
actually, I was thinking more Edvard Munch
Does anyone see any possibility that Colin Powell comes forward before all is said and done and finds his soul as a patriot once again? He appears to be very lackluster in his support for the Bush party line this week. Think he might quit his job and start talking?
cls180 | Email | Homepage | 03.27.04 - 9:59 pm | #
I, for one, do not. Unless it was to save his own ass from prosecution somehow. I could see him writing a tell-all book in a decade or so, tho. I think he's made a deal with Bush like: "I won't actively undermine you, but I won't tell any NEW lies for you." And all those skeletons stay in his son's closet.
David Kay - Maybe. And I've always wondered about Mary Matalin as a deep throat (ok, bad mental image, sorry), but she's not really there anymore, is she?
George Tenet? I can't figure him out.
There could be, and it's a little chilling to think, a military mutiny of sorts. Not seizing control, but top brass breaking ranks and going on the record exposing Bush's follies.
I dunno, just thinking out loud.
Richard Clarke is a liar.
When have I ever steered you wrong?
.
preznit give me turkee, that painting represents the mood of the Bush administration (and any repub who's in too deep to escape the coming Rapture). *smile*
actually, I was thinking more Edvard Munch
preznit giv me turkee | Email | Homepage | 03.27.04 - 10:11 pm | #
*Grin*
Wow, pie, great link, rock on .
damning testimony.
At the end of a week of hugely damaging publicity surrounding the allegations made by Bush's former anti-terrorism chief, Richard Clarke, Bush's rating has taken a dive in key opinion polls.
Pollsters Rasmussen put Democratic challenger John Kerry three points ahead of Bush by 47 points to 44. That dramatically reversed a four per cent Bush lead just a week ago. The pollsters put the change down to the fallout from Clarke's claims. At the same time respected firm Zogby logged Bush's approval ratings as slipping to an all-time low of 46 per cent.
.................
The effect was to attack the Bush campaign at the heart of its re-election strategy: fighting the War on Terror. Democrats want to fight the election on the economy and jobs but Clarke delivered massive blows to the Republican's main platform of national security forcing Bush's team unexpectedly on the defensive. Clarke's book, Against All Enemies, now tops bestseller lists across America. More than 500,000 copies have been printed - a huge amount for a political non-fiction work.
................
Kid - and best of all, the Daily Show on Monday. Kind of the sorbet to finish off the repast of the Sunday-Monday banquet of Clarke hammering the Chimperor. (burp)
Kid - and best of all, the Daily Show on Monday. Kind of the sorbet to finish off the repast of the Sunday-Monday banquet of Clarke hammering the Chimperor. (burp)
Jennifer
and I'm guessing that will be the best of the lot. Jon practically bowed down to him the other day
The only thing that keeps me encouraged about the possibility of one of Bushes lackeys - perhaps Powell - jumping ship is that it appears that Powell, Rice and several others will be leaving office at the end of the term regardless of who wins. If they see that they are on the losing side of history, someone may bolt. Its kinda like a guilty party willing to take a plea b/c they see the writing on the wall.
Probable? No.
Possible? Yes.
You know, Condi's gone from kinda cute, to barnicle-encrusted sea-hag in three short years.
And Bush, well... http://tinyurl.com/2attr
But Clinton looked absolutely fabulous. Clean living, I tell ya. Clean living.
Does anyone see any possibility that Colin Powell comes forward before all is said and done and finds his soul as a patriot once again?
Once again? There are assumptions here I'm not willing to grant.
Just because people told you he was an honorable man don't make it so.
Two words: My Lai.
"Honorable men" were ineligible for appointment in this administration. (See "Poindexter, John" for an example.)
Two words: My Lai.
Monkey | Email | Homepage | 03.27.04 - 10:27 pm | #
Colin Powell is a really, really good liar. He's the polar opposite from Condi.
Everytime I see him speak I have to keep reminding myself that he has no credibility.
You know, Condi Rice has been looking like a Leroy Neiman painting lately.
Moli | Email | Homepage | 03.27.04 - 9:06 pm | #
Moli, which picture did you have in mind .
Condi is the All American neighbor and that is why she is getting a pass, you can complain about it, but bottom line is still a very sympathetic figure.
We all know she was laughably inadequate, but she was hand-picked and vouched for by Poppy, Bar and Dubya.
Bottom line is people are never gonna be as cross with Condi as they are with her boss, her boss is the lurchy, decrepit, incompetent, bungling, bamboozler, who hoked, hyped, hucksterated his way into Iraq, he is the one who will get the blame for everything .
preznit giv me turkee, that picture says it all.
Moli, you're right. She's looking very hag-esque. Clinton rocked on Thursday.
Ok, I don't know the details of Powell's past history. All I know is he had a sterling reputation when he took the SOS job. He's been pretty severely tarnished in the last year. I think he may be up for some rehabilitation.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and make a prediction....Bush loses in November. Think about it, he lost last time. He's gotten every vote he's ever going to get. Aside from Evangelical Christians (and not all of those, only those with limited IQ) he's won over no large bloc of voters since 2000. Can anyone name one large group that would swing to Bush this time around that didn't vote for him last time? Arab Americans can't stand him. He's even losing a big chunk of the Cuban American vote. Despite all the Republican crowing, Hispanics and Jews still vote Democrat 2 to 1 over Republican. Blacks may not be big on gay marriage but they sure won't be voting the issue. Unless the fix is in with electronic voting, I don't see how he gets over the 48% threshold he achieved in 2000. Not unlike John Kerry prior to the Iowa caucuses, I think these polls are meaningless. Approach this intelligently....who exactly besides a few millionaires are better off now than in 2000?
I think people are paying attention. There were comments on a sports board today talking about Gene Keady possibly leaving Purdue University. One of the posts suggested that this be blamed on Condi because nothing has stuck to her teflon so far.
These are normally some pretty conservative folks. This is the first time I have noticed anything other than sports really being mentioned on this board.
Just one small example, but perhaps the tide is turning!
For those of you who haven't yet read Clarke's book, there is a very interesting tidbit in it about his relationship w/ 60 Minutes and Lesley Stahl. (p.25) Methinks 60 Minutes likes Richard.
"[60 Minutes producer] Bonin was obsessed with al Qaeda, had done a story about terrorism with me and Lesley Stahl in October[2000]. They had taped three hours of interviews with me for a seventeen-minute segment. Now, without my knowing it, CBS was running much of the unused interview [in the days after 9/11], including me explaining the concept of Continuity of Government."
"[A day or two after 9/11] Bonin had asked if it were true that I had asked for a transfer... Bonin wanted to run the story that I was quitting the terrorism job in frustration with the new administration's lack of focus on al Qaeda. I asked him not to, but admitted that I had sought the transfer."
Oh, not any picture in particular. She's just like a living Neiman painting: Loud, disorganized, loud, frenetic, loud, ubiquitous, loud and loud.
To any of the 5% who are going to vote for Nader reading this: If you can't clear your heads enough to realize what a COLOSSAL mistake you're making, truly life and death, please, on Nov.2
Just
Stay
Home
Just for laughs I went over to Lucianne.com to see if they now what is happening to them. True to form, they think all is well and that Clarke has been totally discredited. They are raving about some crap piece by Mark Steyn, who calls Clarke a "mid-level bureaucrat!"
I agree with the assertion that the polls by Newsweek vs. web are skewed, and they want them to be so...
Have you ever been polled by someone who wants a certain outcome? They preface the questions with statements that they propose as "facts" about a certain situation and set up the person whom they called.
The bias of the poller is always revealed in the statements, whether written or verbal that precede the poll.
I had a hilarious time with a Repug pollster before Bush was elected.
It was quite eye opening to hear how they prefaced the questions with biased statements to get the outcome they desired.
I am always leery of any poll, even the net polls as I don't think any of them are accurate enough to reveal the truth. I lied my ass off to the Repug, he was quite impressed by my lying.
cls180,
More interesting tidbits, I read that the RNC and Bush are not going to be campaigning at all in Illinois...
They have written off the entire state! What is interesting about this fact is that while Illinois elected a Dem Govenor, and the stellar Richard Durbin as Senator, Obama won the Dem nomination in the race to beat the ultra conservative geek Peter Fitzgerald. There will be huge dem coat tails from Obama and Kerry in Illinois in all of the races.
Obama is a black Harvard grad and he will massively pull out the black vote in Illinois. His competition has a nasty divorce problem, and is obviously a Republican, and they have been throwing Republicans out of office like crazy here since the huge George Ryan bribery scandal.
Illinois will be rejoicing in November with two dem senators, and will deliver Illinois to Kerry.
That is very good news for our country, and more signs that the tide has turned.
Don't forget that Rice is leaving the administration in November, one way or another. She may have seen sympathetic before, but now she is seen as just another two faced liar by many.... defending the indefencible
I just listened to the short interview Clarke did on NPR today where he said he would "love" to have his testimony declassified, etc, etc, and so on.
Wow.
I cannot wait to see him on Meet The Press tomorrow.
Clarke is my hero,
Want to know how to REALLY have fun with a pollster? Once you agree to take a poll, they are not allowed to be the first one to hang up--it screws up their sample. You can keep them on the phone as long as you want.
"I just listened to the short interview Clarke did on NPR today where he said he would "love" to have his testimony declassified, etc, etc, and so on."
"Wow."
"I cannot wait to see him on Meet The Press tomorrow."
Jeebus Christ
-Thanks for the tip.
Haven't had time to read the whole thread, so apologies if this has been pointed out already, but:
So 65% of people polled have not changed their opinion based on Bush's testimony? This sounds bad intuitively. But half of that 65% are brownshirt base. The other half are ABB. All these people had their minds made up previously--it's the remainder that's important. If 35% of people changed their opinion of Bush (presumably for the worse) based on Clarke, that is huge.
"Bush's testimony". Arrgh. In an alternate universe, after hell freezes over. I meant Clarke, obviously.
"Who is interviewing Rice tomorrow on 60 Minutes."
"Ed Bradley."
pie
-I don't know about anyone else, but I'm expecting a softball game on 60 Minutes.
Come on, it's the Bush Administration; they expect to be catered to.
Of course, if Condi storms out of the interview, I guess Ed did his job.
What are you all smoking? The public's short memory will forget about all of Bush's travails once someone wins on The Apprentice and that person has made the cover of Newsweek and People magazine. Bush's approval should be somewhere in the 30's and any right thinking person should be doing all they can to support Kerry. Somehow in thge latest AP-Ipsos Poll Bush with 46, Kerry with 43 and Nader with 4 or sumpin. VERY depressing if you ask me.
I absolutely cannot believe the views of some of these writers. Is she really talking about the Pres Bush? or maybe it's about some other Bush that we don't know about?
Bush honesty is refreshing after Clarke
http://tinyurl.com/2s58m
The popularity of the Bush's war crime in Iraq hinged on one thing and one thing only. Killing brown Muslims to avenge 9/11. As more and more people come to realize Iraq had nothing to do with the 9/11 crisis that Bush let happen the more one will see his popularity drop.
Bush honesty is refreshing after Clarke
Wow.
That woman is kinda... nuts. That was almost a full-on Nooners channeling experience.
"harangue-o-tang, is that what Americans are thinking? Have you talked to any republicans or fence-sitters lately?"
I have. hee hee.
pie 03.27.04 - 5:50 pm
Me too (and I might point out conservative republicans). More hee hee.
Oh, not any picture in particular. She's just like a living Neiman painting: Loud, disorganized, loud, frenetic, loud, ubiquitous, loud and loud.
Moli | Email | Homepage | 03.27.04 - 10:47 pm | #
OK Moli, next time please tell me how you really feel .
Anonymous, I still don’t know, she is pretty sympathetic.
Remember the Rethugs loved her, they were all set for her to be Governor of California, before Arnie came along that is, they were talking about her for Veep.
Now some of the Rethugs are all going around in new found umbrage, it looks really quite entertaining.
I found her little prevarications and amazingly smooth way of passing them along also quite remarkable.
My assessment is that the major issue is still Bushie’s judgment or lack thereof, the choices he made and also the hoke, hype and hucksteration with which he went from town to town to hype Iraq and snarl and make demands and that is the thing that people are looking askance, that he has still not levelled with them.
.....
Turbonium, I agree, plus it is the cumulation of sequential information now all confirming the same narrative line.
.....
cls180 - you must be channeling me.
I've been saying for months now that I personally don't know anyone who voted Gore in 2000 who is planning on voting for Bush this year. I know at least 3 people who voted for Bush in 2000 who say they won't be voting for him this year. They don't even have to vote for Kerry; if they just stay home on election day that gives Kerry a comfortable win.
Bush carried this state (Arkansas) by something like 3 points in 2000. Recent polls done in state indicate he will lose by a similar margin this time around - and that's without any appearances thus far by "Kerry's Secret Weapon" - Bill Clinton, who can do nothing but help Kerry here. 3 - 5 days of Clinton campaigning in the Delta will translate into a Kerry advantage that Bush will not be able to overcome. (If only Gore had been so wise as to turn him loose here in 2000!)
Of course, this is no excuse to try to coast to the election - we need to work hard, not only to make sure we turn out all our folks and as many converts as we can, but also to win back at least the Senate.
I've notice how skewed toward Kerry the last few MSNBC flash polls have gone, considered it great news and rushed to this link to vote again. Already gone. Does anyone know what the trend was. Kerry's been above 55% at MSNBCfor a couple of weeks. Did it hit 60% so they took it down quickly?
I've notice how skewed toward Kerry the last few MSNBC flash polls have gone, considered it great news and rushed to this link to vote again. Already gone. Does anyone know what the trend was. Kerry's been above 55% at MSNBCfor a couple of weeks. Did it hit 60% so they took it down quickly?
Bush/Cheney 04: Noone Thought The Towers Would Fall
I've been saying for months now that I personally don't know anyone who voted Gore in 2000 who is planning on voting for Bush this year. I know at least 3 people who voted for Bush in 2000 who say they won't be voting for him this year. They don't even have to vote for Kerry; if they just stay home on election day that gives Kerry a comfortable win.Similar to my experiences. I even know one young person who wasn't planning on voting until I said soemthing snarky like "well, then I hope you get broadband in Syria." And then explained to him that there's a definite chance he'll be drafted if Bush is reelected.
If a Bush ad can get away with saying Kerry is going to raise taxes by 900 Billion Dollars in his first 100 days, then we should be able to get away with saying that Bush will reinstitute a military draft in his first 100 days. If Kerry's numbers don't ad up, then neither do Bush's troop numbers. And I think a draft under Bush is infinitely more likely than a $900 billion tax under Kerry...
Moli-
good idea
know anyone from moveon.org?
that sounds right up their alley
or CAP,center for american progress...
I just took the poll for the second time, there is no limit, I guess, to the number of times you can take that poll, so don't believe any of the numbers you see for either side!
The problem is that Clarke's central point about Iraq, that attacking and occupying it is playing into the hands of the Islamists, is too sophisticated for most Americans to grasp. For probably 50% of Americans a towelhead is a towelhead, and that is it.
It wont matter in this election. The rednecks in the south will vote for bush regardless of the facts and/or evidences.
Also average (dumb) voters are too lazy. Ask yourself if you actually research or read up on an issue or just make your choice based on ads.
Negative ads will always work, period
I loved the headline Newsweek put on the story.
Blow for Bush.
I'll bet it gave el pResidenté flashbacks to the seventies when he saw it. Oh, that's right, he doesn't read the news.
17 year old US woman goes on hunger strike against Iraq war:
http://www.thetranscript.com/
Sto...2045155,00.html
Characters Remaining:
Commenting by HaloScan
