I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
But Saddam was a bad BAD man.
MYOB'
.
frist to Mars
Wrong war, wrong gov't, wrong time.
Sadam = asshole? Sure, but there's a right and a wrong way to do everything, and, in this case, the neocon dickswing was truly the wrong way.
One day, making tracks
In the prairie of Prax,
Came a North-Going Zax
And a South-Going Zax.
And it happened that both of them came to a place
Where they bumped. There they stood.
Foot to foot. Face to face.
"Look here, now!" the North-Going Zax said, "I say!
You are blocking my path. You are right in my way.
I'm a North-Going Zax and I always go north.
Get out of my way, now, and let me go forth!"
"Who's in whose way?" snapped the South-Going Zax.
"I always go south, making south-going tracks.
So you're in MY way! And I ask you to move
And let me go south in my south-going groove."
Then the North-Going Zax puffed his chest up with pride.
"I never," he said, "take a step to one side.
And I'll prove to you that I won't change my ways
If I have to keep standing here fifty-nine days!"
"And I'll prove to YOU," yelled the South-Going Zax,
"That I can stand here in the prairie of Prax
For fifty-nine years! For I live by a rule
That I learned as a boy back in South-Going School.
Never budge! That's my rule. Never budge in the least!
Not an inch to the west! Not an inch to the east!
I'll stay here, not budging! I can and I will
If it makes you and me and the whole world stand still!"
Well...
Of course the world didn't stand still. The world grew.
In a couple of years, the new highway came through
And they built it right over those two stubborn Zax
And left them there, standing un-budge in their tracks.
Would you believe that these pro-war idiots are STILL talking about the schools!
At least that rape-room fad faded.
This is exactly the reason why so many Europeans were against the war. We have a large, and increasingly militant, Muslim population here. A friend remarked that several years ago he had never seen a head scarf, now they are becoming more and more visible. In a political way. And of course there will be a reaction from non-Muslims... God knows cohabitation is difficult enough as it is without Bush & Co messing about in the Middle East.
And to cling to the thought of what could have been, as if it somehow justifies that disaster that it is, is truly bizarre.
I think the true believers have no traditional sense of what could have been. They still believe that what could have been is what will be because their ideologically driven decisions do not recognize disaster as such.
I'm not sure the Paul Bermans of the world are true believers, but they are adherents of a sort. The sort who have a wavering faith and who need to cling to the possibility that their faith is just being tested but will ultimately be proven worthy.
Among American pro-war liberals, Berman is as sincere a democrat as they come (though personally I find his account of "democracy" too thin for my liking, as I argued at the end of this review). And anyone who wants to oppose the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq -- on principle, rather than in pragmatic terms of budgets and bodybags -- really ought to engage arguments like this rather than dismiss them.
This is key to the point that Bérubé is making.
What's ever more galling is the sure knowledge that when the next 9/11 happens, as it most assuredly will, the Rabid Right will call it "proof" that our incursion into Iraq was the right thing to do. No matter what the 'terrace' do from now on, Bush & Co. will say that it justifies our illegal war.
The puditocracy seems completely unable to imagine that "brown skins" (to borrow Bush's term), have legitimate reasons for distrusting the motives of Bush et al. They are so enamered by there own brilliant posits that they cant understand that beyond these shores people can see the utter bullshit that is the neocon utopian vision.
OT: An intel tzar? Someone to whom the FBI, CIA, NSA could report to so all those explicit warnings might be acted upon? I thought that was what the president was for.
Friedman and others (like the NYT editorial board) et al were living in fantasyland from day one.
They imagined a nice, noble-minded war conducted according to sound military policy and gentleman's rules, followed by a serious reconstruction / democratization effort managed by mature adults.
The fact that none of this was likely to happen with Team Bush in charge didn't faze them. They kept dreaming that it would be OK -- if only Rummy, Cheney, et al would read their editorials and follow their instructions!
They were totally wrong. (We were pretty much totally right.)
Here again is my letter to the NYT from March '03.
the bush balloon has been blown out to sea. There is talk from some that it might be retreived but really its clear to everyone that the vessel is lost. As the inimitable howard dean said, "Yeeeaaarrggghhhhh!!!"
Check this out:
WE MUST UNITE
Within the narrow window between now and the November election, it is on the point of foreknowledge, and on this point only, that the entire government position – regardless of party or administration – can be completely and instantly deconstructed in a manner that is easily understood by the majority of the American people. We must become Andy Sipowicz with one voice and we must make that voice be heard. The Bush administration has handed us the pivotal moment on a silver platter. We must break the suspect while they are still in the interrogation room. After that, the millions of other inconsistencies, lies and falsehoods of the attacks, including the physical evidence issues, can be pursued in a systematic way, hopefully with serious legal clout to eliminate wiggle room.
But for the moment, the suspect is in effect saying, look, you have a short period of time in which to book me or let me go. If we let them go, then all other discussions become academic.
OT, for you who have been yearning to hear someone talk about religious issues other than Falwell, Andrew Greeley was on Hardball tonight. It repeats if you missed it and want to see it.
OT: An intel tzar? Someone to whom the FBI, CIA, NSA could report to so all those explicit warnings might be acted upon? I thought that was what the president was for.
That's what an NSA is supposed to do.
Bottom line is they want to spy on us citizens because they think we're not trustyworthy.
Well, fuck them.
Before only Saddam and protected cronies raped in specific rooms, now all of Iraq is a rape room.
Before there was pretense--very real in many places, and more real than anywhere else in the Arab-speaking world--of right Socialist sexual "equality", now shut up and put your black bedsheets on.
We can go on.
It is worse now. There can be no question that Iraq is easily worse than when Clinton had Saddam caged and the Kurds had their autonomous zone: indeed if you compare Iraq under either Bush as opposed to under Clinton, you see that Iraqis always suffer under Bush.
It was under Reagan, Bush I and Darth Von Rummsfeldt that the massacres (both Iranian and Kurdish) occured.
It was under Bush I that Saddam was given helicopter gunships BY US to bloodily suppress an uprising WE FOMENTED!
Not only is Iraq worse off, it's always worse off under a Bush.
Friedman and others (like the NYT editorial board) et al were living in fantasyland from day one.
Were they? Or were they just presenting the world with a simple-minded feel-good Hollywood version of what the administration had in mind? Call me paranoid, but I know journalists and they are not dumb. Lazy, maybe. But not dumb.
[in "flash"-type "change sequence"]
BECOMING ANDY SIPOWITZ!!!!
The only war currently worth fighting is here at home. Unless fought to win, though, the whole world goes to hell.
Friedman and others (like the NYT editorial board) et al were living in fantasyland from day one.
Sorta reminds me of the First Battle Of Bull Run, the first major skirmish of the Civil War. The people thought, hey, this will be a nice, orderly Napoleonic charge, a few cannons and it'll all be over. Instead, it was the bloodiest conflict in American history and still the number-one body count leader. But at the time, people thought it would be fun to watch. The even brought picnic baskets.
The more things change, man...
Berman: "... and giving that idea some extra oomph with the bluff about fearsome weapons."
But I thought Saddam denied that he had such weapons. Oh, it's that crystal ball thing again.
Bottom line is more and more people are having more and more questions about the war and the manner in which Bush bungled it.
The stupidity of the pundits may be significant but people did not vote for the pundits and they are not going to vote on them in November, they are gonna vote on Bush and bounce his sorry tuchas all the way back to Waco, Texas, thank you 
.
Even the stupid ads that Bush is running shows that Bush still doesn’t get it, such as harping on the $87 billion
Not just Bushie is whistling in the dark and not only is the $87 billion already unpopular in the communities and people upset that Bushies and the Rethugs never gave them the oversight protections they wanted, but even more people are squiggely eyed at the even more billions that Bushie is lurking around waiting to spring on everyone else.
.....
OT, for you who have been yearning to hear someone talk about religious issues other than Falwell, Andrew Greeley was on Hardball tonight. It repeats if you missed it and want to see it.
He's terrific- I only wish Matthews had let him talk about politics longer.
On topic, everything about the neo-con mindset is bizarre to me. They're so deep into the well of denial that they can't even see the real landscape.
Yup. It's not our wishful thinking that's killing our soldiers over there, it's reality.
OT: An intel tzar? Someone to whom the FBI, CIA, NSA could report to so all those explicit warnings might be acted upon? I thought that was what the president was for.
See, it's less work when he only needs to ignore one guy/gal.
He doesn't like to be occupied, remember?
Friedman and others (like the NYT editorial board) et al were living in fantasyland from day one.
I don’t know which reality these Vichy media doofuses were channelling or continue to channel in their fantasy drivel and wishful thinking but it shore ain’t the one around here.
Bill Moyer's Now just finished a segment of footage of real battle from Fallujah, made by CNN whose producer was wounded in the night action when two Marines were killed.
Check for repeat--it's usually late Sunday night again in the NYC Ch.13 area.
I don't get CNN any more, but I've seen nothing like this on broadcast news. It was not pretty--not terribly graphic, but very tense.
I'd also like to suggest tomdispatch.com whose commentaries and pulling together various written sources is fantastic. His most recent is about the present FUBAR situation.
People are already wondering what is the impact of hostage taking and how many more are gonna be taken.
.....
On top of which apparently Halliburton won’t even let its employees speak to their own home media.
.....
OT:
There's some wacky shit going down here in Jaw-juh concerning the upcoming G-8 summit, and it's got the ACLU rightly (in my opinion) worried about how far away from the concept of "civil rights" we've gotten in Bush's America.
Do check it out...
http://tinyurl.com/ywrzr
Their problem was fundamental, Atrios. It was a good end, because they pictured a calm, orderly Iraq without Saddam, and they damned the means, fire the torpedos. They bought the primary Repug philosophy - the ends justify the means.
I agree that Berube has the best approach to them. I'm not sure why they need to be approached, but what do I know?
I wanna see the the weapons report Iraq gave to the UN. Did Iraq say they had no weapons? Over and over again Iraq said they had no WMDs. To the UN, to the US, to everyone. Come on in, have a look, we have nothing.
Does anyone know how to get the UN to release this report?
Does anyone care?
It's nation-building malpractice . . .
Maybe we shouldn't have tried to do it at all. Maybe it wasn't doable. But setting those things aside, one thing is clear: the adminstration has screwed this one up, even on its own terms.
Mr Rumsfeld made a rare admission for the Bush Administration: "I certainly would not have estimated that we'd have had the number of individuals lost in the last week. If someone had said, 'would you, a year ago, have expected you would be where you are at the present time' obviously... one would not have described where we are."
Translation:
"Holy shit I really fucked up, din't I...They told me so...Oh well, fuck 'em. They signed up for it." Don't expect me to pull a Clarke.
I wanna see the the weapons report Iraq gave to the UN. Did Iraq say they had no weapons? Over and over again Iraq said they had no WMDs. To the UN, to the US, to everyone. Come on in, have a look, we have nothing.
LOL
TALL16 - Could you explain why you think the report is so important?
I keep hoping that "turn over control" does not equal "abandon"
Scorpio
Eccentricity
Anyone here can give me a link to a site about "Bake Back the White House"? It's on in my neighbourhood in NYC... just want to find out more about it.
Scorpio - do you really think they're going to abandon all that lovely oil and all those military bases they're building? Not to mention The Biggest Embassy in the History of the Known Universe?
I don't have a clue what they're really envisioning, but I doubt it's abandoning.
PS What's this I hear about Bush asking the UN to help the US out in Iraq? There was something about it on the BBC...
TheaLogie, I don't have an actual link handy, but the baking events are being promoted by MoveOn.org.
If you want people to greet you with open arns it is perhaps wise to not have blown off the arns of the person (or persons) greeting you. But what do I know?
+++
The Second Coming -- W. B. Yeats
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all convictions, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
TheaLogie, here's the link for my zip.
Just click the *Try a search in a different zip or broader area* and you should be all set.
Corrente has the link to the "bake" sites.
+++
OT via The Guardian:
Blair may think Bush The Lesser's killer bee, but apparently his main most aide thinks our Boy Emporer has had a "devestating impact" on global development. Interestin'...
http://tinyurl.com/26tpb
How many have to die before Bush admits HE LIED???
The problem with Berman's argument in the case of the Iraq war is the problem with Bush's and the neocons: they all use "Arab" and "Muslim" interchangeably, and sometimes throw in "Iraqi" when the discussion gets local. Yes, Saddam was shooting at American airplanes in the no-fly zone, which Saddam never recognized because the United States unilaterally established it. But, over ten years and 40,000 sories, Saddam missed every time and the missile launchers were often immediately destroyed. Whatever shooting did to show defiance, as a statement of power, it was pathetic. There were notably few--perhaps none--Iraqi members of al-Qaida. Saddam ran a secular nationalist regime, one that was--for its own safety--opposed to Islamism, and killed rebellious clerics. In order to challenge Muslim terror, we destroyed the most secular Arab regime in the Middle East, if not the most secular Muslim-majority state there. Why? Because it was supposed to be easy. Now, of course, by not weighing the difficulty of task fairly, and discovering it may be impossible for us to save, we've discredited our cause, and lost our credibility. And, if Paul Berman had been looking, he'd have seen the naivite and feckless idealism oozing from Wolfowitz's and the PNAC crowd's every poor. These are men who read Churchill and dream that this is London in the Blitz.
The fundamental flaw in the Republican mindset is that results are more important than process. What they fail to recognize is that the process shapes the results in ways that cannot be anticipated...the world is far more complicated that their damn book of fairy stories they base their worldview on.
Oddly enough, my atheist libertarian relations have suddenly seen the light on Bushco, as have their atheist libertarian buddies. One guy in their social group is claiming that Bushco is doing everything they can to usher in the Rapture a la the "Left Behind" series. Hence what looks like incredible stupidity in regards to the Muslim world, is actually fundamentalist Christian ingenuity at work. Sounds rather tin foil hat to me, heh heh. But hey, go ahead Bushies, drive the libertarians into our arms. ;^)
Just came back from the Kerry rally in Philadelphia. If you went, I was 1 of the 2 yellow ticket takers at the entrance.
Great speech - very focused on healthcare, and with 100 UPenn and Nova kids behind him, he promised a $4000 college tuition deduction. A few audience members yelled about AIDS, which he promised something like at least $30 billion to help. Great line on the Kyoto Protocols as well: "as flawed as it was, we should've had a President who didn't just kill the work of 10 years by over 100 nations, but to spearhead a way to fix those Protocols!" (paraphrase).
His wife was very low key, but her presence really helped make the whole thing more... personable. For a super billionaire, she's extremely soft-spoken and humble. It's a perfect warm-up for people scared of Kerry being a 'condescending blueblood'. Rendell made a few sports references. He knows what Philadelphia likes, that's for damn sure.
Great stuff, but he didn't sign a sign I had, so I probably won't vote for him now. Oddly enough, the nasal-voiced singer from Blink-182 was there too. Strange that he was in a suit, next to where the prominent Philly politicians came out, but he wasn't namedropped at all.
Hey TheaLogie, I thought I heard Jon Meacham (Newsweek Managing editor) say that Tony Blair was an evangelist. Is that true? I hadn't heard that before.
If true it would explain a lot.
Just thinking about our guys who died during the attempt to "take" Falluja.
It's looking to me like Bremer (and hell, it might have been Dan Senor while the boss was away) gave the order without consulting the willing. Madrid, Rome, Copenhagen and the Hague must have flipped out over the Dubrovnik tactics adopted by Bremer. I think that by now taking Najaf has been discarded entirely, under penalty of an immediate pullout by the Europeans.
Can you imagine receiving an order to take a city placing 10s of thousand of civilians in peril? You attempt to do it reluctantly then the order comes down to negotiate after you've lost dozens of men (along with the hundreds of victims within Falluja). Do you think our troops might feel cynically exploited and betrayed? What happens when the troops are feeling this way...Black market sales of grenades, ammo, assorted weapons? Selling of intelligence? Drug use? Colective subordination?
Jesus. I've had a hard day, and isn't Atrios rich enough to get a preview feature?
sories = sorties
poor = pore
Screw the grammatical mistakes. I'm tired, and pissed off.
Jeebus, Backslider. Ya think?
On a whole series of issues including climate change, international aid, family planning, nuclear proliferation, trade and corporate responsibility, "staying true to a discredited model of extreme economic liberalism has set the world back a decade or more", says Mr Porritt.
Man, georgie is going to be one infamous 21st century leader.
Anyone here can give me a link to a site about "Bake Back the White House"? It's on in my neighbourhood in NYC... just want to find out more about it.
The link I received from MoveOn for the West Village neighborhood is this.
If that's not your neighborhood, just go to moveon.org and poke around.
___
For a discussion among prowar and antiwar folk, check out Open Democracy.
___
There's some wacky shit going down here in Jaw-juh concerning the upcoming G-8 summit, and it's got the ACLU rightly (in my opinion) worried about how far away from the concept of "civil rights" we've gotten in Bush's America. ... http://tinyurl.com/ywrzr
The link isn't working for me.
...Black market sales of grenades, ammo, assorted weapons?
Don't forget uniforms. Authentic American uniforms with all the right patches are being sold for $17 in Baghdad. A whole segment about it was done on CNN today.
Hence what looks like incredible stupidity in regards to the Muslim world, is actually fundamentalist Christian ingenuity at work. Sounds rather tin foil hat to me, heh heh.
Actually it's both. The whole thing with Israel is about creating the proper conditions for christ's return to earth. Of course it sounds crazy, but these people think the earth is 6,000 years old and Bush thinks the jury is still out on evolution. As for the Muslims, who cares? they'll die during the rapture anyhow. (their position, not mind BTW). I think they're fucking nuts.
Man, what is in the air today? Brian C.B. - I've had a truly shitty day in most ways, too, and several other people here have echoed that.
sorry to hear about yours - it's Friday night. Relax, enjoy your favorite recreational substance (though if that happens to be whipped cream, go easy), and realize we're here for the duration, we might as well enjoy it as much as we can.
Great stuff, but he didn't sign a sign I had, so I probably won't vote for him now.
Huh?
"The best lack all convictions, while the worst/Are full of passionate intensity."
You DO know what Yeats is saying here, right?
Oops. I see others posted better moveon bake-off links.
___
In order to challenge Muslim terror, we destroyed the most secular Arab regime in the Middle East, if not the most secular Muslim-majority state there. Why?
Because
in the case of the Iraq war is the problem with Bush's and the neocons: they all use "Arab" and "Muslim" interchangeably
Why DID the regime so insist on invading Iraq, after all?
What IS the foundation of the PNAC ideology, after all?
four legs good - I keep trying not to think about the End Times aspect of this whole thing - I keep trying to pretend that they don't really believe it themselves. But Bush is sincere about this, I think, and I know that Tom DeLay and Santorum and Frist and others are totally convinced, too.
Ok, that whole thing just scares the shit out of me. Between the neo-cons and the fundies, I'll take the neo-cons. No one scares me like the fundies. I mean, they'd fucking push that red button in the absolute conviction that once they did, Jesus would appear shortly. I'm just sayin...
Thanks, Tena. I was ready for Bush being stupid on television, but the wingers denying it. I was ready for a bad week in Iraq, and the wingers claiming it was all about the just cause. I did a lot of thinking about Bush's reasons for not admitting that he's made some mistakes, and realized why he doesn't: he's following the same foreign policy (and domestic policy) he had set up in January 2001. An apology would suggest he had to change it. (My next letter to the editor.) But I wasn't prepared for him to basically--in the middle of an Arab uprising--submit to a round of open-hip surgery to join America to that of the Likud vision for Greater Israel. I think that it will get a some more Americans killed in the short run, and lots more Americans and Israelis killed in the long run. And it mocks all the (apparent) anti-colonial policy we've had worldwide for the past twenty years. And it turns this war against al-Qaida into the Clash of Civilizations that both the neocon chickenhawks and Osama have been begging for.
Good news might be that South Korea decided to elect a liberal government. Josh Marshall says that's huge. I'll wait and see.
"Between the neo-cons and the fundies, I'll take the neo-cons."
HAHAHAHAHA! Hmmmmmm. A kick in the balls or a kick in the head?
Uh, head please.
Pathetic.
I mean, they'd fucking push that red button in the absolute conviction that once they did, Jesus would appear shortly. I'm just sayin...
Jesus would, wouldn't he? Only not there where they would expect him to show up. I am now listening to Rage Against The Machine to let some steam off. Hope that does not make me a maoist.
I have always been a very optimistic person, and although the first three years of Bush were tough, I believe he will be defeated in November, and we'll get back on track. I just don't buy into the gloom and doom that some espouse.
Counterproductive. I use this word often, but it's the right word to describe the pessimistic outlook.
SNAP OUT OF IT!!!!
The weather is improving. Get out and smell the flowers.
And I really am having trouble typing. I enjoy the thread. It's got the regulars, and it's troll-free. but I think I'm going to go read some paper material, and not type. New York Review of Books, maybe, and perhaps wade through a few more pages of Emmanuel Todd's Après l'Empire.
"a few more pages of Emmanuel Todd's Après l'Empire."
Yeah, well, I'm thinking about gettin' back to my Richie Rich comics myself.
Showoff.
Petey - It's a pathetic choice, but I can see the neo-cons thinking twice before they pushed it - I can even see two neo-cons arguing over some ideological difference and forgetting the button. But the fundies are complete loose canons. Religious fanatics are way more dangerous than ideologues.
...One guy in their social group is claiming that Bushco is doing everything they can to usher in the Rapture a la the "Left Behind" series. Hence what looks like incredible stupidity in regards to the Muslim world, is actually fundamentalist Christian ingenuity at work. Sounds rather tin foil hat to me, heh heh...
You mean that they're not deliberately trying to bring on the Armageddon of their dreams?
Sure seems that's what they're all about.
Tena, hate to make your mood worse, but some of the neo-cons are fundies too.
are you taking in refugees from the whiskey bar tonight?
I'm going through some withdrawal, some bts- billmon tremors... have. to. cope.
I was amazed from the beginning of the build up to the invasion that anyone could be stupid enough to think that Bush and his crew could do anything anywhere in the world that was not totally corrupt.
all they needed to do was look at the way Bush relished murdering people in Texas, whether they were guilty or not...not to mention his resume as a crony affirmative action CEO.
all they had to do was actually read what Cheney and the whole neocon gang had planned for years, as far as colonizing Iraq.
I'm amazed that so-called pundits and experts could be so stupid, frankly, and that so many people have coddled the Bush crooks for so long has only served to allow BushCo to further push our nation into ruin by their disasterous policies.
so, by extension, I blame the so-called pundit class for failing the American people.
"Showoff."
I wish I could, but whenever I read it, it's so very clear how much s-l-o-w-e-r I read in French than in English. And it reminds me that I'll never write like a native, except in English. Still, it helps. Plus, how better to piss off a Republican than to pick up a French publication.
THE ROAD TO HELL IS PAVED WITH GOOD INTENTIONS.
Was is hell. The road to Bush's Iraq war was NOT paved with good intentions.
This was political. Rove thought it would get Bush re-elected.
Wrong on two counts.
Friedman and others (like the NYT editorial board) et al were living in fantasyland from day one.
Were they? Or were they just presenting the world with a simple-minded feel-good Hollywood version of what the administration had in mind? Call me paranoid, but I know journalists and they are not dumb. Lazy, maybe. But not dumb.
Non Tibi Spiro | Email | Homepage | 04.16.04 - 8:31 pm | #
I agree. I find it hard to believe that today's NY Times Friedman is the same person who dissected very clearly (to me, anyway) the disaster that was the Israeli occupation of Lebanon in the 80s, in From Beirut to Jerusalem. Now we get to see the same disaster played out in Iraq 20 years later...
OT but who else thinks that Bob Woodward's book is a pro-Bush wolf in sheep's clothing?
From the exerpts I've seen, it paints Bush as someone who was skeptical of the intelligence he was given while Tenet told him that the Iraq intel was a "slam dunk"...
thanks for the tip on NOW with bill moyers its on right now on PBS central standard time zone
Case in point:
McLaughlin's version used communications intercepts, satellite photos, diagrams and other intelligence. "Nice try," Bush said when he was finished, according to the book. "I don't think this quite -- it's not something that Joe Public would understand or would gain a lot of confidence from."
He then turned to Tenet, McLaughlin's boss and said, "I've been told all this intelligence about having WMD and this is the best we've got?"
"It's a slam dunk case," Tenet replied, throwing his arms in the air. Bush pressed him again. "George, how confident are you."
"Don't worry, it's a slam dunk," Tenet repeated.
"Petey - It's a pathetic choice, but I can see the neo-cons thinking twice before they pushed it - I can even see two neo-cons arguing over some ideological difference and forgetting the button."
Well, I just think it's a waste of brain cells to even consider the question...like angels dancin onna head of pin or something. You and I both know there is only ONE sane choice in America these days. His name is John Kerry. And we gotta get his sane ass in the White House come November. I bet we can agree on that!
" - it's Friday night. Relax, enjoy your favorite recreational substance (though if that happens to be whipped cream...
Tena"
Yeah! Reddy-Whip! Straight from the can! Oh, to be a child again, when you could do that and nobody would think you were a pervert or something, and it wouldn't kill you.
Pretty much an Aerosol Cardiac nowadays, tho.
And you have to make sure you're alone....
"Plus, how better to piss off a Republican than to pick up a French publication."
Well, for my part, I got my girlfriend to stop shaving her armpits...but that's got, like, more to do with what a kinky bastard I am than any kind of political statement.
VIVA LA FRANCE!!!!
perhaps wade through a few more pages of Emmanuel Todd's Après l'Empire.
I'm re-reading Heinlein's Number of the Beast. Sometimes I think we're in a ficton...
Stratofortress-
I can see that as one possibility. It's also possible that the intelligence was the best that the CIA had--that it really wasn't that definitive--but Bush wanted his war. "It's a slam dunk" could be Tenet telling Bush that that's as good as its going to get, so hurry up and try to make your dubious case for war; sorta like telling your 7 year old that the Kmart sneakers are even better than Nikes, just so he'll wear them.
Not saying that it's *highly* possible, just another interpretation. Guess we'll have to buy the book to find out.
Thanks guys, have now found the link. Not one, but TWO bake sales in my neighbourhood... I have MoveOn and Columbia University students to thank for it, it appears.
""Nice try," Bush said when he was finished, according to the book. "I don't think this quite -- it's not something that Joe Public would understand or would gain a lot of confidence from.""
Just to be clear: Is this the same George W. Bush who, after citing a thoroughly discredited "report" on Iraq's supposed nuclear capabilities, said to the world: "I don't know what more evidence we need."
Woodward's being spun. And spun HARD.
OT but who else thinks that Bob Woodward's book is a pro-Bush wolf in sheep's clothing?
Consider a hand raised, kind of. I'm not hopping on "Woodward's book is going to hurt Bush" bandwagon, either. His last book was a blowjob for the president; why should he suddenly turn around and kick GW in the ass?
And I'm with Brian CB, too. Exhausted by it all, not feeling real optimistic.
But the spring humor issue of the New Yorker arrived today, and it is the weekend. And my old old dogs are still alive and kicking, the birds are singing at the marsh pond, and it is sunny out at 7:30 p.m.
...why should he suddenly turn around and kick GW in the ass?
Three letters: C-I-A.
""Nice try," Bush said when he was finished, according to the book. "I don't think this quite -- it's not something that Joe Public would understand or would gain a lot of confidence from.""
Also, right after the war was "over", Bush tried to bullshit the world by saying the weapons HAD been found, and he pointed to those pathetic weather balloon trailers as "proof".
BULLSHIT! They are lying to Woodward to shift the blame from the Chimpanzee.
Cognitive dissonance? (sp?)
How many millions of people are going to die before the Greek Tragedy that Bu$h got rolling plays out?
Unfortunately I don't think I'm being pessimistic.
Cognitive dissonance.
Zeitgeist.
Paradigm.
Meme.
S'all the same namby-pamby bullshit.
Talk like a MAN, for God's sakes.
Get a load of THIS..
Lovable Lynne (the out of print lesbian-love novelist) should have mentioned that DICKYPOO --- while he indeed had a college deferment at the University of Wisconsin, on THE DAY that deferment expired, whaddaya know...bingo Lynne gets preggo, (although there were no test strips to pee on in those days...they just sort of "knew it") so Cheney applies for a married with child deferment.
So Cheney "made love, not war" to keep his precious ass away from the shootin match.
The gutless chicken.
Source:
They Marched Into Sunlight: War and Peace Vietnam and America October 1967
by David Maraniss
Cheney's Wife Grilled by Third Graders Over U.S. Vice President's Military History
The Associated Press
SEOUL, South Korea
April 16 — Lynne Cheney, wife of Vice President Dick Cheney, faced some tough grilling Friday when she met American and South Korean third graders on a tour of a U.S. military base in Seoul.
Among the questions: "Do you like America or Korea?" and "Did your husband ever fight in a war?"
[snip]
During the brief question and answer session, Cheney replied that Korea was a "wonderful country" but that "America is my country. I think there is something in all of us that loves our home."
As for the military record of husband Dick Cheney, she said: "He was in college, so he did not fight in a war."
But she was quick to add that the 63-year-old vice president served as U.S. secretary of defense and that "he and I are both proud." Cheney served in that role from 1989 to 1993, directing the Gulf War.
[snip]
"His last book was a blowjob for the president; why should he suddenly turn around and kick GW in the ass?"
Maybe he didnt get a reacharound?
>>I'm not hopping on "Woodward's book is going to hurt Bush" bandwagon, either. His last book was a blowjob for the president; why should he suddenly turn around and kick GW in the ass?
Fuzzy Puppy: I read a tinfoil-hat idea over at dKos----that Woodward might have used his WH access for the first book to write the second.
If true, THAT'S gonna do something to redeem him . . .
OT, for you who have been yearning to hear someone talk about religious issues other than Falwell, Andrew Greeley was on Hardball tonight. It repeats if you missed it and want to see it.
Streaker | Email | Homepage | 04.16.04 - 8:29 pm | #
Greeley is awesome! He's a local columnist for the Sun-Times and writes every Friday for them. I sent him an email praising one of his articles and got a personal reply back. Sure, it was only "Thanks!", but that's no chain letter. Needless to say, I felt pretty good.
Oh yeah... OT too. Did you guys hear that the NRA wants to buy a radio station?
since the so-called liberal hawks bought into the notion that if it all turned out rosy it would have justified the illegal, immoral invasion, they must also admit that since it turned out all f'ed up the means were totally unjustified. ...oh I forgot, they makeup the rules to suit their purpose; consistency, morality, integrity not wanted.
Berman is sickening. Anyone who does not believe that Westerners and some Israelis are plotting to subjugate the Arabs is just stupid. It's called, "power politics". A bunch of poor people ruled by kleptocrats sit on a pile of oil - of course better organized states try to control them and keep them in thrall. When "intellectuals" insist that power politics should be covered up by fairy tales, it's called "propaganda" or "lying". The fact that many Arabs see undeniable reality through a lens of ignorance and racism, doesn't make it any less real.
Gestapo? In refering to a portion of Woodward's new book, Chris Mathews (Hardball) used the term GESTAPO for a secret office set up in the Bush administration! I don't know if this term is used in the book or if it comes from Mathew's own initiative. I think the book IS going to do damage.
What about the Arabs that subjugate other Arabs? Do they get a free pass?
fauxreal- welcome. Billmon better come back soon.
Thealogie, you might not have seen my earlier question- I saw something today suggesting that Blair was an evangelist christian? is this true?
Crap, never mind. I just did a search and now I'm really frightened. Everyone else, check this out:
And on the seventh day Tony Blair created....
No wonder he and chimpy get along so well.
"So Cheney "made love, not war" to keep his precious ass away from the shootin match."
Yeah, the only thing he was brave enough to shoot was his cock snot...right into his girlfriend's hot little foxhole.
"Sorry about not serving my country when it needs me, Uncle Sam, but I'm too busy flunking outta school and humping my head off right now."
Heh. Whatta rascal.
Woodward: Gestapo office = Office of Special Plans (OSP).
Finally! Someone actually bringing this office to light...I hope.
Fuzzy Puppy: I read a tinfoil-hat idea over at dKos----that Woodward might have used his WH access for the first book to write the second.
That has been my take from the beginning. Woodward became a "made man" in the Bush administration by writing his first book on this presidency in a favorable light. Hard for me to fathom that someone like Woodward that helped change the course of history, would become a total sellout or media whore. He is too narcistic about himself and his journalistic legacy. Expecting this book to be explosive and not kind about the shortcomings of Bush in intillect or management skills not to mention the same analysis of the inner circle around Bush.
Petey,
Can you blame Cheney? It's most guys fantasy to repeatedly inseminate a HOT! lipstick lesbian like Lynne.
I don't buy any of the ideological BS that the war was based on (supposedly). All that hand-wringing is over the failure to sell it to the public, nothing more. Notice; for all the nonsense about "democracy" and "freedom" the proposed Iraqi Constitution sold the country out from under the Iraqis. They never got a vote from the Congress declaring war. The war was conducted as a pork barrel for contractors. The rules of engagement? We don't need no stinkin... "Support Our Troops"? Do we even need to go into that? And they got most of it "off budget" while giving a tax cut to the wayupper income brackets.
I never saw one thing that indicated the neocons believed an ounce of the BS they were shoveling down the American public's throat.
Sure, from now on it'e going to be strictly "out, damned spot" from Friedman and his ilk, but all the justifications were so many "noble lies" to try and put some kind of humanitarion, democratic patina on the whole cloth of their Imperial fantasies.
Because if they had won, they thought nobody would care.
And note- even in the midst of this disaster, there still are some winners. I'll leave it to you to figger out who they might be.
Hint: it's not the soldiers, and it's not the American public.
"Who knew he would fuck it up so bad"
"Woodward became a "made man" in the Bush administration by writing his first book on this presidency in a favorable light."
Bob Woodward isn't Bob Woodward any more.
Walter Pincus is Bob Woodward now.
Adam: No.
Blair: Evangelical Christian
Bush: Evangelical Christian
Well now, isn't this special. Buckle up.
Mooser - Oil, lots of it. Look at where it comes from by country, and then how much we need as a %. Then look at who controls the taps, are they in our back pocket and for how long (as in Saudi Arabia)...you know where I am going with this. Would have been a hard sell so go to argument #2, WMD, bad bad man...
Petey - Think Woodward is too far gone to bring back from the darkside?
"Blair: Evangelical Christian
Bush: Evangelical Christian"
Nah, look a little closer at the two and THIS is what you'll see:
Bush: Evangelical Christian
Blair: Chameleon
Britain's just a satellite state. Has been for the last twenty years. When we get Kerry in there, watch Tony change again. You'll see.
and we think those 4 'contractors' died badly.
"Petey - Think Woodward is too far gone to bring back from the darkside?"
I don't know. Guess I'll have to read the book to make that kinda judgement. But the book I'm REALLY excited about reading is Joe Wilson's. "Politics of Truth" s'called, and it's coming out the 30th. Start savin them pennies now, Jimmy-Ray, I know I am!
four legs: Wow, that is some serious shit about Bliar. All this time, my friend and I have been wondering: what's in it for Tony Blair. Why is he Bush's poodle? And the article is correct in saying he keeps it well hidden, unlike Bush.
Now I get it. And "it" has ruined my week-end. Thanks 
Petey Wheatstraw,
I don't know. I followed the link that four legs good posted above and there was a guest on Mathew's Hardball tonight that made the comment that Blair was an Evangelical Christian like Bush. It could be opportunism on Blair's part - sucking up to Bush. But, and it's a big but (snicker), as long as these two are "leading" the free world I don' feel warm and fuzzy. If Bush gets backed into a corner or gains another term I'm afraid that rational thought is out the window and millenial passion is in full tilt.
"If Bush gets backed into a corner or gains another term I'm afraid that rational thought is out the window and millenial passion is in full tilt."
I heard that.
The problem with Friedman and Berman is that they think Arabs don't read the newspapers with them in it. That Arabs will believe what we tell them about our intentions, and not what they see with their own eyes. In short, they don't even think of Arabs as being real people.
Well, Syria and Libya are still a secular Muslim/communist nations. But like Iraq, the Muslim fundies are getting a foothold. Is Bushco stupid enough to attempt to finish Al-Queda's work and topple the last secular governments - okay, dictatorships - among the Arab nations in the Middle East?
Not too many Neocons are fundies. Most of the NCs are Jewish. I wonder how long it will take the fundies to demand conversion to Jesus to be a RNC true believer? Everyone else is getting purged in the Repblican Party by the fundies. Just look at Arlen Spector or Christie Todd Whitman.
Petey is right. But today i was thinking how ironic that this extremely articulate, intelligent, able to make a case(right or wrong)man is considered Bushes' poodle. Then I remembered Bush is Cheneys' poodle.
Jeez, looks like I picked a bad day to be a poodle.
Excellent post up on leftcoaster about the Woodward book. Kind of a summary of what we know so far. Click on Homepage for link.
Can we please stop talking about Friedman?
The real tragedy with Friedman is that the Times gives him a column that speaks to only a handful, but reaches millions.
There are so many more writers that worthy of that spot, yet we will be stuck with him writing his nonsense for years to come. Ignore the man - that is the answer.
I don't think Bliar is faking it. I think the religious thing is the real him, which he keeps hidden from his people -- regardless of who's in power in the US -- because it wouldn't be accepted in the UK the way it is in America. This article is from a while ago, and other evidence of Bliar's religious leanings have probably surfaced in other underreported stories over the years. So, is it any wonder part of the Arab world see the Bush/Bliar coalition as a crusade?
"The real tragedy with Friedman is that the Times gives him a column that speaks to only a handful, but reaches millions."
Well, that AND his ridiculous pussy-tickler mustache.
We had heard that Bliar was not a complete lapdog, that he was honestly thinking Bush could be "bribed" to put pressure on Sharon
[scuffling]
excuse, to kind of do something in Israel/Palestine. So that now he has his "fantastic oppotunity", he can act like he did something the way Clinus gutted welfare and smashed the environment and still came off smelling better than the competition. To naive friedpeople it's like Shrub/Sharon/Bliar accomplished something.
"Asked by Woodward how history would judge the war, Bush replied: "History. We don't know. We'll all be dead."
Only if you get a SECOND TERM, fuckhead.
"kei & yuri"
C'mon, guys...I gotta know: twins, married couple, brother and sister, roommates, schizophrenic person...?
Which is it, fellas?
hurn...
kind of like we never judge Hitler or Stalin or Pot or Mao or Franco or Battista or Papa Doc or...
http://www.cafeshops.com/
stinkya...nkyart.10663725
Petey: think it's combination "schizo/homo/otaku" and standard fat hairy bitch of indeterminate gender trying to deceive gullible boys on chat rooms...
"raw shark"
Is this, like, the second Watchmen reference I've seen this week?
Or just somebody who's heavily into sushi?
this is like the only time i'll probably ever get to say this but
CHECK OUT THE GEOPOLITICAL BOWLS ON IRELAND!!!
nice link, itoldyouso. pithy.
Now I get it. And "it" has ruined my week-end. Thanks
Sorry dude. It was Jon Meacham (Newsweek managing editor) who made the comment tonight. He said it kind of off hand and I almost missed it. Kind of freaks me out.
I never could figure out what the deal is either. I mean really, Blair's a smart guy, I can't imagine him and chimpy having a deep policy discussion- but apparently they get together and discuss the rapture. 
"The only war currently worth fighting is here at home. Unless fought to win, though, the whole world goes to hell."
--that's the reality, and given how quickly BushCo has managed to destroy so much, I just hope damage control is possible as far as the US economy, our international standing...
As far as the end-timers...the real problem with them, imo, is the slavish devotion to Israel, right or wrong...and mostly wrong because the hardliners play them.
Such a position sets in motion all sorts of problems and seems to set up a self-fulfilling prophecy feedback loop.
It's enough to move you from being a-religious to anti-religion, or at least me.
The fundies are forcing the entire country to drink their armageddon koolaid.
It's bizarre in the extreme, given the level of research in the sciences, that we have someone who is not only an idiot, but also virulently anti-intellectual running the most powerful nation in the world, whose power has been built on those very sciences.
Okay, he's not really running the show, he's just being read to from time to time.
Well, Blair discusses the rapture. Bush just nods a lot.
Still spooky...
Um, I hope there is no kei & yuri dissing going on?
That would not be joyful.
I always wondered how the hell he thought all this would benefit Britain, but rational arguments go out the window when it's about blind devotion to Jaaay-sus. Damn scary. Some say that Bliar is finished & won't survive the next election, so right now that's my only consolation.
Rove rues 'Mission Accomplished' banner
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
prick.
"Thersites"
Now that you mention it, YOUR handle has me kinda baffled too. Wasn't "Thersites" that Greek dude who was ugly both inside AND out? Why choose THAT one? Why not choose something cool like (assuming you're a dude) Zeus, or (if you're a chick) Medusa?
and while in my pissy mood...the title to david brooks' most recent piece.
A More Humble Hawk
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
jerk.
Only if you get a SECOND TERM, fuckhead.
no, we might be dead anyway. he lit the fuse. an image is going thru my head right now of kerry furiously stomping on a fuse that won't go out.
and i am not sure but some of it may actually go to this whole xian thing. true believers don't worry about the end of the world. they want it to come for that is when they see their beloved jesus.
personally if your gonna be a whack job i'll take the umpteen virgins. oh yea, in born again xian theologie you don't have sex in heaven. something about a purified body.
Um, Petey, do you really want to know? 'Cuz there is a reason for my handle. But if we're sparring, I'm cool with that too. I'd prefer the comaradarie w/ repartee, myself. You really want the explanation?
"no, we might be dead anyway. he lit the fuse. an image is going thru my head right now of kerry furiously stomping on a fuse that won't go out."
Maybe. But the way I see it, we got a choice. We can try to stomp out the fuse...or we can light more.
I was one of the fucking idiots who voted Nader in 2001.
Come 2004? I'm gonna REDEEM my sorry ass. I'm pullin that lever for Kerry, baby. And I'm pullin it motherfuckin HARD!
Thanks for saying what needed to be said.
The people that supported this debacle that should have known better should be dumped from journalism. Have 'em go out and make a living another way.
bless you Petey.
i'd say 'god bless you', but y'know, i just ain't feeling it right now...
"But if we're sparring"
No, no, no, no, no. Put your fists DOWN, Thersites. You got me all WRONG here. I'm not an asshole; I'm just curious.
in brook's piece, he trips all over himself not-quite apologizing, then ends it with this little gem:
We hawks were wrong about many things. But in opening up the possibility for a slow trudge toward democracy, we were still right about the big thing.
in other words, 'sorry-but-not-really'
i emailed him this li'l cattiness:
so...
getting closer, but no quite there, eh?
let me help you-- it's easy.
I W-A-S W-R-O-N-G. try it, you'll feel better, I promise.
After The Gold Rush
Neil Young
Well, I dreamed I saw the knights
In armor coming,
Saying something about a queen.
There were peasants singing and
Drummers drumming
And the archer split the tree.
There was a fanfare blowing
To the sun
That was floating on the breeze.
Look at Mother Nature on the run
In the nineteen seventies.
Look at Mother Nature on the run
In the nineteen seventies.
I was lying in a burned out basement
With the full moon in my eyes.
I was hoping for replacement
When the sun burst thru the sky.
There was a band playing in my head
And I felt like getting high.
I was thinking about what a
Friend had said
I was hoping it was a lie.
Thinking about what a
Friend had said
I was hoping it was a lie.
Well, I dreamed I saw the silver
Space ships flying
In the yellow haze of the sun,
There were children crying
And colors flying
All around the chosen ones.
All in a dream, all in a dream
The loading had begun.
They were flying Mother Nature's
Silver seed to a new home in the sun.
Flying Mother Nature's
Silver seed to a new home.
(Neocons do not dream the world dream--they sell the bricks that make the walls that crush the dream...)
+++
Thersites, I'm curious too. You may be as ugly as me on the outside , but you're obviously not ugly on the inside.
You're actually a decent dude (for an irish guy)
well Petey, i have always made it point not to vote. or as my father used to say "i don't want to encourage the bastards". but i'll be voting this time, i just hope he can get it put out.
and i have plastered my name all over these threads all day. and i have read some good comments but Imus wins the qoute of the day.
"Rumsfeld that asshole, he's a gold plated asshole"
Sorry to freak everyone out about the rapture and blair. It puts a lot of shit in perspective though, doesn't it.
I think we're doomed. Where on earth can I go where there are no god cursed fundies?
Seriously.
"well Petey, i have always made it point not to vote. or as my father used to say "i don't want to encourage the bastards". but i'll be voting this time."
Coolio. I'll see ya there, Charley!
Sorry, Petey. Traditionally, Friday & Saturday are Troll Nights at Atrios's house.
I happened to be rereading the Iliad in early 2002, for no special reason. Already then we had heard the "with the US or against us" shit.
It occurred to me then that Thersites is just CALLED ugly and mean, in the Iliad. But if you step back a bit, maybe he had a point: attacking Troy really was just a personal thing for the Argives, it was about plunder, most of the grunts were just going to get killed, going home was always a reasonable plan. And what happened to Thersites when he said this? He got beat up and then perhaps slandered for all of recorded history. Maybe he was a perfectly fine-looking, nice individual who said "um, this war is a bad idea" and then got slimed for centuries for simply pointing out the obvious.
My handle is ironic. It means, maybe what we're told is not the truth. Maybe it's the ugly assholes who won't go with the program and wave the flag who were right all along.
Maybe it's those jerks who won't say the right things in the right way who were actually the ones talking wisdom.
Besides, I'm pretty freaking pissed off a lot of the time. So the handle fits.
K,I been watching and holding my tounge tonite but I give up.White House confirms: Bush ordered up Iraq plan in November 2001
The Associated Press
White House-AP -- The White House is confirming that President Bush ordered an Iraq invasion plan drawn up in November of 2001 -- while U-S forces were still fighting in Afghanistan.
However, Press Secretary Scott McClellan says asking for a plan and implementing it are two different things. He says Bush only issued final orders after a "well documented" process of exhausting alternatives
Now comes the spin macihine.I hope they can explain away the slush fund or how they stole from a previously funded operation.I cant stand this shit and now we're going to hear how it was all O.K.
four legs good:
God, or the concept of God, is not yet the property of any singular group. The Mystery of Mysteries resides in the place Where Words Go Back. In your humanity, in your heart and in your deeds, resides that which is beyond the strident manipulations of clergy and fascistic politicos--Your very cells, ever-living, ever dying, mortal and eternal, the consciousness that is you may lose patience but in an eternal mystery what's a few thousand years?
Just say no to thugs, keep the flame, fight the good fight, and bury all claims to permanence. Let it all go, get really pissed, and claim it all back. You are the tide, and the power and the glory...
I may be full of shit, but it's good shit...
+++
I think we're doomed. Where on earth can I go where there are no god cursed fundies?
sorry four legs, religion will always be with us. was it marx? "religion is the opiate of the masses" or how about lennon (the rock star) "there is no stronger drug than jesus" then again he also said "we're bigger than jesus"
MJS:
wow. that's good.
on that note, going to bed and thinking for awhile...
night all.
i think that we have the perfect VP candidate for kerry...
tony zinni, 4 stars USMC, and not happy with the clowns running the circus.
Just watched Bill Moyers' show. A guest, whose last name escapes me but his first name is Mahmood and he's a well-known scholarly guy, noted that al-Sadr is an apocalyptic guy. He believes in the whole "world is going to end soon" thing, and he's sort of trying to hurry it along by holding up in Najaf. Bush is an apocalyptic guy, and apparently Blair leans that way, too.
We are slouching towards Bethlehem, indeed. (And that is one of my fave poems, so thanks to darryl for posting it.)
The religious lunatics are in the house and they have the keys.
And someone recently told me that being an atheist was preposterous...
"Maybe he was a perfectly fine-looking, nice individual who said "um, this war is a bad idea" and then got slimed for centuries for simply pointing out the obvious."
. . .
"Besides, I'm pretty freaking pissed off a lot of the time. So the handle fits."
HAHAHAHAHAHA! Well, I still don't think it's the coolest sounding name, but I'll give you this much, Thersites: the reasoning you put behind it kicks mucho ass-o. Maybe poor ol' Thersites just wasn't very good in the Public Relations Department and got himself a whole lot of unfavorable press.
Too bad Karl Rove wasn't around back then, huh? I mean, if he can keep BUSH'S approval rating at 50%...
What's up with Kerry agreeing with Bush's West Bank stunt?
What's up with Kerry wanting to send more troops to Iraq and all that? The problem in Iraq is that we are there. Exactly like Vietnam. No real governement to fight for and no one wants us there cause we're assholes.
I'm starting to worry I'll have no one to vote for in Nov.
So is "crazy" Howard Dean the modern-day Thersites?
"So is "crazy" Howard Dean the modern-day Thersites?"
Only one answer to THAT question. And that answer is a resounding: YEEEAAAAAAGGGHHHHH!
"I'm starting to worry I'll have no one to vote for in Nov."
Listen, if you won't vote Kerry for yourself, do it for the rest of the world. They are BEGGING for a change in leadership here (I just got back from a trip to England/Paris, so you can trust me on this). And if Kerry wins...mark my words...the world is gonna REJOYCE!
So is "crazy" Howard Dean the modern-day Thersites?
No, I am, more's the pity. Thersites never had any sort of a following. Dean is more of Diomedes kind of a cat. More hopefully, Aeneas.
And goddamn, folks, you don't have to like Kerry to vote for him. You just have to not like unnecessary, badly-planned wars run by crazy people.
I was thinking of posting Tennyson's Ulysses but Yeats' seemed more appropriate.
Of course, I learned my Tennyson from Outward Bound schools and was reminded of Yeats from a Babylon 5 episode.
--ventura county, ca
"...and no one wants us there cause we're assholes"
No, just you liberals.
You clowns always circle back to the "screw them" sentiment then whine that your patriotism is being questioned.
The problem, for now is that the occupation has been a slow motion disaster. Like Viet Nam was, in other words it is a quagmire. For now there is plenty of "plausible deniability". Cheap excuses for maintaining a military presence for our gollum like need for "precious" oil.
This is, and has always been about oil. That is why we are now willing to withdraw and let the U.N. take over the quagmire aspect of the war.
We will keep 100,000 troops on bases and near the oilfields for the forseeable future. As long as we have a stranglehold on the oil supplies, we don't give a flying goddamn about democracy in Iraq. But it's useful to keep up this fiction.
Oil is about to get a whole lot more "precious" (expensive) in the very near future. In five years it will be driving, literally, our economic future into the ground. We could have planned for this, but we didn't. Too much bad media made us extremely stupid. Look at what China is doing with steel and aluminum now. They are going to be doing it with oil in two years. If you think that the middle east is a bad place now, give it a couple of years, when humanity is fighting to the death over the last few drops of black blood. We could be looking back on these days with wistful regret.
"You clowns always circle back to the "screw them" sentiment then whine that your patriotism is being questioned."
There's only one group of traitors, Golden Boy, and right now they're in the Bush White House. They commited treason against the people of the United States when they outed undercover CIA agent and WMD specialist Valarie Plame in retaliation for her husband, Joe Wilson, telling the truth to the American public about the bogus Niger claim. You'll hear more about Valarie Plame and the treason that was commited by the Bush White House when Wilson's book comes out April 30...and when the indictments are handed down shortly thereafter.
The lying monkey is going back to Crawford for good, Golden Boy.
Deal with it.
You clowns always circle back to the "screw them" sentiment then whine that your patriotism is being questioned.
See what I mean about Troll Nights at Atrios's house?
Anyhoo. Golden Turd is a prime exhibit. Nothing to say, enjoys seeing Americans dying to no puprpose.
Small penis, too. Well, no penis at all, assuredly. Still searching for that autoerotic thrill, head up the ass and tonguing tonsils from the wrong end. Dumbass.
"If you think that the middle east is a bad place now, give it a couple of years, when humanity is fighting to the death over the last few drops of black blood."
You sound like the narrator guy at the beginning of "Road Warrior".
Not saying you're WRONG. I'm just saying, is all.
"They commited treason against the people of the United States when they outed undercover CIA agent and WMD specialist Valarie Plame in retaliation for her husband"
If your accusations are ever proven, I agree that the guilty party should be prosecuted. Our side gets rid of the bad apples. Yours rallies around them.
Nice "Gitmo" advertisement here, by the way. Way to stand up for the savages who want to kill us all!
The Aztecs believed by . "success?". Then "Obviously prudent of us to sacrifice all those guys last year. Let's keep it up!"
"unsuccesful event?" Well, then, obviously were not sacrificing Enough people. better And they deal of effort prcuring worthy victims the in horrible weird and logic, perverse constantly reinforces
yes. I am stoned. that Was gibberish. I am sorry please forgive me.
"Our side gets rid of the bad apples."
Well, roll up them sleeves and get ready to do a whole lotta PICKIN' there, boy, cuz from what I've heard (and I've been paying VERY close attention to this story) the treason leads STRAIGHT to Cheney's office. Also, the FBI has WIDENED the scope of the investigation. Seems a few Bush White House scumbags LIED to them.
Bad idea, lyin' to the FBI.
VERY bad idea.
The lying Chimpanzee is going down.
How do ya like THEM apples?
Our side gets rid of the bad apples.
Eh? You're joking, right?
Nixon. Reagan. GHW Bush. Ollie North. Negroponte. GW Bush. Rumsfeld. Cheney. Gingrich. DeLay.
And that's not even a complete list of horrible, despicable people lionized and elevated by conservatrons.
Kind of sad, really, the quality of trolls we get nowadays. Golden Bowl really is unimpressive. Barely even turns the mouth when you pee in it.
Charlie Reese with a shocking column.
This column is a courageous statemwnt at this time. Penultimate sentence:
"Rather than address the cause of the problem, he just tries to kill his way out of it". Column here, if I linked it right
Golden Boychik- you are so brave to call them "savages that want to kill us all". Make sure to lock your door and load your guns. I'm just way to afraid of them terraces to ever say anything like that!
You pathetic little troll.
"If you think that the middle east is a bad place now, give it a couple of years, when humanity is fighting to the death over the last few drops of black blood."
You sound like the narrator guy at the beginning of "Road Warrior".
Which makes me wonder; what the effect would have been in The Passion if, when Jesus was brutally scourged, he would have spilled oil instead of blood.
Just say no to thugs, keep the flame, fight the good fight, and bury all claims to permanence. Let it all go, get really pissed, and claim it all back. You are the tide, and the power and the glory...
I may be full of shit, but it's good shit...
Dude, you are so high. Want to share?
If your accusations are ever proven, I agree that the guilty party should be prosecuted. Our side gets rid of the bad apples. Yours rallies around them.
No, I think that's rightwing trick. Not only do you rally around them, you slime and try to destroy anyone who tells the truth. Like chimpy boy sending Condi out to lie and smear Richard Clarke on every talk show known to man. A week later the WH conceded all of his points.
So go back under your bridge, golden shower.
Hey Thersites. That's a great explanation. Sliming your enemy and ruining his reputation is as old as time.
Anyway, I'm pissed off a lot of the time too. I have to quit reading and watching the news.
charley, religion may always be with us, but it doesn't have to be the evangelical fundie variety. I can live with some garden variety stuff. I just don't like our home grown wacko crap.
I like Reese's columns too. He doesn't mince words when it comes to his views on America's uncritical support of Israel. It's like what Billmon wrote about this new Bush/Sharon deal. Reaching a just peace in Israel & Palestine is the central front in defeating terrorism. I don't understand why Americans still don't get it.
Bush: I know I wouldn't like to be occupied.
I don't understand why Americans still don't get it.
Sigh... once upon a time there was an American president who did not like Saddam Hussein. He was a deeply imperfect president. However, he was not so stupid that he believed that America should not put its weight behind finding an equitable solution to the Israel/Palestine problem.
The current president is an aberration. He has pushed through an atrocity and has escaped censure because it's like, atrocity #5. And who's counting.
Deidre! Where's my whiskey!
Beg pardon...
This is what blows my freakin circuits, OK? We (our media, generals, Bremer, Cheney admin.) talk as if WE are the REAL Iraq(is). Whatever of Iraq doesn't agree with us, is not Iraq. (Or at best, anti-Iraq.) We know better than they who they are. This is what "we" and Fox News and America and God Know - Dick Cheney/Murka is smarter than Iraqis and therefore should mentor them and shepherd their fortunes.
Going to bed and will wrap myself in MJS's beautiful wise words.
fat sam you kill me. and what brad said upthread, worth repeating: if you want to be welcomed with open arms, isn't it best not to shoot off their arms first?
I think Berman's problem is that he has his one pet idea- "Arab Nationalists were the inheritors of Fascism"- and now that Arab Nationalism (in the Nasserist/Baathist sense) has basically become irrelevant, he has to try and shoehorn all Islamic Fundamentalism into his concept rather than admit he's dealing with something new.
...thnak you ladies and gentlemen for the good reading...
good night
Ignore The Golden Troll Who Is Too Stupid To Even Be Able To Effectively Prove Who He Is With His Own Documents... And Who The Big Bad Hotmail Scares
It isn't just the conservatives who made wacky and false predictions about how the middle east was going to look now. Tom Friedman and the other warrior liberals have been just as wrong.
Instead of a revitalized peace process between Israel and Palestine and democracy sprouting in Iraq we have Sharon destroying any hope of peace, with the full blessings of Georgus "I'm the second coming" Bush and a situation in Iraq that even Rumsfeld has to admit isn't exactly what he expected.
In most areas of life people who are so seriously and consistently wrong get fired and fade into some line where they can't do more harm. Not in journalism, not when you've got your bum on the New York Times or a similar media venue.
Those who predicted a real disaster have been proven right. Iraq is producing a quagmire, a nest for terrorists, a rallying cry for the likes of Bin Laden, regional distruption, etc. The "Road Map" has turned out to be the most cynical smoke screen in decades, a cover for the war and a complete fraud. The war itself the most blatant profiteering in the history of the United States. It makes the Spanish-American war look clean by comparison. Cheney and the rest of the Bush administration war mongers should be indicted for formenting war for their own profit.
Life has proven the anti-war side to be the realists. The neo-con and their dupes in the neo-lib camp didn't just get it wrong, they got it entirely wrong and caused many people to be killed or maimed.
This little tidbit from that fucker Brooks' column:
"Nonetheless, I didn't expect that a year after liberation, hostile militias would be taking over cities or that it would be unsafe to walk around Baghdad. Most of all, I misunderstood how normal Iraqis would react to our occupation. I knew they'd resent us. But I thought they would see that our interests and their interests are aligned. We both want to establish democracy and get the U.S. out."
Uh, all you kept talking about fucker were all the weapons that were gonna kill us.
Brooks is on the list.
If you hate what the US has done in Iraq; Kerry isn't going to help you.
If Bush was a space alien determined to destroy the U.S. via deception, could he have done worse than the human Bush?
Assuming Kerry wins, isn't every future campaign gonna feature advertisements like "The last time republicans were in power, they damaged the country far worse than the 9/11 terrorists"?
Aren't all Bush supporters traitors?
This from Anti-Matter
President Bush declared yesterday that the United States will stick to its November deadline for ending the Bush Administration occupation of the White House and returning political power to the Democrats, despite growing doubts that the U.S. will have achieved stability by then.
"The intention is to make sure the deadline remains the same. I believe we can transfer authority by November. We're working toward that date," Bush said, referring to plans to hand over political sovereignty to Democratic Presidential candidate John Kerry. "The date remains firm."
"As far as what's happening over here...first, in Fallujah, the Marines were doing well until they ran out of gas, literally. The real reason the Marines had to start their truce/cease-fire strategy is because the coalition forces are running extremely low on fuel right now. We first heard about it maybe 10 days ago or so from some Army 5th Group Special Forces guys who were complaining to us, saying how even THEY had been ordered to ration fuel.
Considering that Special Forces guys get the best of everything and get first dibs on everything, including fuel, we knew the shortage must be pretty bad. Sure enough, just a couple days later, the Army 1 star, who runs the base where our compound is located, implemented strict refueling policies, severely limiting how much gas we can take per day. They've gone so far as posting guards at the fuel points to measure how much gas is pumped per vehicle, per day, with everything getting logged on their clipboards. It's definitely a change. The 1 star didn't tell us where the fuel shortage came from, but it is probably a mix of poor planning and recent fuel truck convoys from Kuwait being either delayed or cancelled due to the increasing number of attacks. Anyway, that's the reason the marines had to slow down in Fallujah. Once the fuel problem gets taken care of, the Marines will probably pick up the pace again. Fallujah is going to take a couple months, not a couple weeks.
In Baghdad, where we work, I've never seen the city this dangerous. It wasn't even this bad last spring, during the actual war. Though we've never had any of our executives injured, even after nearly a dozen attacks on our teams, the execs still decided to evacuate for two weeks just to lay low.
It's understandable, considering all the contractors getting kidnapped or killed (nearly all of whom were working without security, I must add) and so they decided to wait it out from some nice hotel in Dubai. As for us, the bodyguards, we're staying put to guard the compound.
We knew things would get worse before June 30th, and they have. Things will probably continue to get worse. It's already been established that both the new Iraqi military and Iraqi police are pretty much worthless and cannot be trusted. So much so, that the Army requested Kurdish soldiers to come to Baghdad to replace the Iraqi soldiers currently providing security for the army bases here. The Army knows the Kurdish soldiers can be trusted and are loyal to the U.S., unlike the Iraqi soldiers. It'll be interesting to see what happens when a few thousand Kurds show up in Baghdad armed with AK47s. But that'll only be one of many future problems.
The Army recently extended the tour lengths another 4 months for a lot of their guys who have already been in the Middle East a year now. Their morale and motivation was already non-existent before the extension; now these guys, tens of thousands of them, are just taking up space over here.
I know i
I know it's still early in the game, but you can pretty much write off the entire U.S. Army (with the exception of their special forces and maybe their aviation units) as being "operationally ineffective" in the future (i.e. completely worthless to the coalition from here on out, except to suck up food and fuel).
Generally speaking, the Army is incompetent in these types of environments: only Marines and Special Forces guys do well in a place like this. Special Forces because they're so precise, and Marines because they're so disciplined...and ferocious.
The Army is just making things worse for the coalition. The Army is intent on having its presence seen and felt in Iraq because they think that will make everyone think they are in charge. What they don’t seem to realize is that a large military presence is the one thing, pretty much the only thing, the Iraqis can't tolerate. Despite reports by the news media to the contrary, Iraqis don't resent the humanitarian projects, or the rebuilding effort, or even the U.S. being in control of the government until the transition. Sure the Iraqis want to be in charge, but the majority can tolerate the situation until a transition happens, even if it's months down the road. But what they can NOT tolerate is waking up every day and seeing army tanks and Bradleys rolling through their towns and villages. And they can't tolerate being stopped by endless Army checkpoints on the highways, which were set up by commanding officers who think terrorists and insurgents haven't figured out a way yet! to avoid those checkpoints. That's what the Iraqis resent and can't tolerate, along with a thousand other ways the Army makes its presence felt (and I didn't even mention having your door kicked in at 2 am because of some "hot Army intel").
Until the Army realizes any of this--which it seems like they never will--things will only get worse. And in response, the Army will just increase its presence.
That's not to say all hope is lost. Slowly but surely, things are actually getting better for the Iraqi people. Everything except security and safety, of course. The water, the power, the food, business… pretty much everything is improving. It's too bad no one is able to notice. I guess that's just hard to do right now.
Well, that's pretty much how things are over here. Thanks again for the newsletters. I always look forward to them. As always, take care."
The above two posts are from an investment newsletter I get. They have a contact whose a security contractor over there, and he sends regular reports.
The idea, no matter how true, that this could've been a just war with just consequences is pretty irrelevant right now. And to cling to the idea of what could have been, as if it somehow justifies the disaster that it is, is truly bizarre.
Road To Hell Paving Co., Tom Friedman, CEO.
If you hate what the US has done in Iraq; Kerry isn't going to help you.
But Bush is going to HURT you. And that's a fact, jack.
Golden Boy,
When do you sign up? Make sure to tell your squadmates that you want to kill Arabs, OK? They'll put you out front.
Idiot.
David Brooks:
I did not appreciate how our very presence in Iraq would overshadow democratization. Now I get the sense that while the Iraqis don't want us to fail, since our failure would mean their failure, many don't want to see us succeed either. They want to see us bleed, to get taken down a notch, to suffer for their chaos and suffering. A democratic Iraq is an abstraction they want for the future; the humiliation of America is a pleasure they can savor today.
Sort of puts that whole article on Franklin County in perspective, doesn't it? This is an intellectual who thinks his speculations are Platonic realities, running smack dab into Aristotelian fundamentals: the concrete trumps the abstract everytime.
People can't eat democracy. But denied everything except a vague promise, they will begin to dine on vengeance and bloodshed, if only because that is the only thing in front of them.
But obviously, the Platonic "pie in the sky" (it is no accident that Socrates described philosophy, which he considered the highest and best pursuit for human beings, to be the "Practice of death") is still alluring:
This time, unlike 1920, say, Iraqis can see a panoply of new and thriving democracies. They have witnessed Iran's horrible experience with theocracy. Once the political process moves ahead, nationalism will work in our favor, as Iraqis seek to become the leading reformers in the Arab world.
Connect "wisdom" and "death," as Socrates did (as long, of course, as it is the death of the "unenlightened," among which group Brooks still, and with no humility, does not include himself), and you can see that we are merely bringing Iraq to a state of enlightened self-interest.
Even if we have to kill a lot of them to do it. It's for their own good, after all, in the long run. Even if, as Keynes noted, in the long run we're all dead. Because even that grim conclusion doesn't disrupt the positive purpose.
"But I thought they would see that our interests and their interests are aligned. We both want to establish democracy and get the U.S. out."
How delusional of Brooks. Iraqis never said anything about democracy - US and Iraqi interests were never aligned towards democracy: no (real) Iraqis ever mentioned it, and BushCo's invasion purpose had nothing to do with it. Some Iraqis wanted Hussein out, others didn't, none wanted an opened end occupation.
How delusional of Brooks.
The delusion was in thinking the abstract concept ("democracy") would trump any concrete realities (tanks and Bradleys rolling down the streets at all hours; Army soldiers kicking in doors based on "intel").
How many of us would say "It's all for the best!" in such a situation, and wait patiently for the occupation to end and democracy to begin, however much we wanted that goal to be achieved?
Hell, GWBush&Co. couldn't wait for the UN to do its job in Iraq before we went blundering in to "fix" everything. Why do we expect more patience from them than we were willing to accept ourselves?
But don't ask Brooks about that. It would just confuse him.
The military letter above:
Send in the Kurds to kill other Iraqis?????
Talk about delusional thinking. This is exactly the reason why we are doomed in Iraq and why the Apocalypse will consume us all.
Brooks is trying to wiggle out. A half hearted "I still believe......." at the end, but if this shill has gone overboard, the Bushies truly are fucked.
Hey, how about them Marlins?
Oh, but come on...we CANNOT allow Iraq to become a 'failed state'! We simply MUST make sure that USPNAC's Iraq airbases remain in place, for the good of the Tomatoland.
A failed state! No, that sounds baaad. How much better to let a group of radical corporationists make the US into a failed state. Because Bushliarco needs a new sign! Kerryliarco...how do you like the sound of THAT?
Let's just keep pouring troops into the genocide. Heck, lets bet on the soldiers lives, as a measure of world terrorism.
'I wager one Kwatloo that 3rd Infantry will 'retake' Bagdad if we give up another 1,000 GIs.' 'No, TWO Kwatloos says that we need MORE mercenaries, or the terrorists WIN!'
(well, we certainly mustn't lose what isn't ours in the first place....)
Woodward's book first installment is on Wash Post web site this morning. I am sorry to say that it is a puff piece. Wash Post is going to excerpt for 5 days - but if this first installment is any indication, we will be disappointed. Let the word spread. Do not buy the book.
damn.. it's amazing how popular your blog is. But it's really cool, I like the topics you discuss and sympethize with your views.
Check out my blog if you feel like it, it's a mix of philosophy, animal rights & environmental issues and corporate crimes!
http://fading-hope.blog-city.com
Keep it coming~
~peace~
David Brooks informs us today that it will be a "slow trudge" to democracy in Iraq.
David must be quite honored that he, rather than senior neocon stooge Bill Safire, was selected to deliver the message to New York Times readers that we shouldn't expect elections in Iraq any time soon. My question for Brooks is "what took you so long?"
Daniel Pipes concluded three days ago that Iraqis and democracy weren't compatible.
George Will announced two days ago that while democracy in Iraq would be nice, it must take a back seat to teaching Iraqis how to behave.
Chuckie Krauthammer, neocon stooge extraordinaire, announced yesterday in his column that democracy, while a "noble goal", may be a "bridge too far" in Iraq. "It may happen in the future" stated Chuckie.
Finally, we have the editorial board of the National Review, the official neocon press organ, who announced in their current edition that we underestimated the "difficulty of implanting democracy in alien soil" and that "success in post-war Iraq therefore is necessary primarily to serve U.S. interests, secondarily to assist Iraqis."
Like WMDs and 9/11 complicity, democracy was just another fraudulent neocon justification for kickin' some tail in the middle east.
If you'll recall, my dear neocons, some of us didn't underestimate the difficulty of bringing democracy to Iraq. Some of us realized all along that the neocons spelled democracy "C-h-a-l-a-b-i."
"Because I value pontification and the corporate line above all else, I hearby nominate for my VP co-candidate that man who has NEVER been wrong about such an important area as the Middle East,
Mr. Middle East himself, Mr. Never-Look-Back,
Fellow Senator, Joe Lieberman!"
Don't forget to vote between drills, folks.
(uh, isn't he the guy who gave Bushliar a blowjob in the Oval Office?)
And Adlai Stevenson III writes in today's NYTimes that this administrations suffers not from intelligence of a foreign sort, but of a cerebral sort.
drip.
drip.
drip.
Woodward's book first installment is on Wash Post web site this morning. I am sorry to say that it is a puff piece. Wash Post is going to excerpt for 5 days - but if this first installment is any indication, we will be disappointed. Let the word spread. Do not buy the book.
bystander
When I first heard that Woodward was coming out with another there was some hope that he would want to chase another Watergate, the stench of which rises from this administration like methane from a massive land fill. Thought Woodward would realize that nailing two massive criminal scandals by presidents would be a feat rivaling Pauling's two Nobels. But no, he's too lazy and comfortable in his bower to want to do any reporting anymore.
It's for a real reporter to crack Blackwatergate.
Today's article is about the Woodward book, not an excerpt from it. IMO, it's too soon to make judgments.
If you read WaPo's excerpt, what did you think of this ge?
Bush said he did not remember asking the question of his father, former president George H.W. Bush, who fought Iraq in the 1991 Persian Gulf War. But, he added that the two had discussed developments in Iraq.
"You know he is the wrong father to appeal to in terms of strength. There is a higher father that I appeal to," Bush said.
That's right. God knows what to do, and of course, he would choose war.
I feel like we've been transported to an earlier time, where men went to war because God gave the thumbs-up. This is so unbelievable.
Liberators
An Iraqi has died of his wounds after US troops beat him with truncheons because he refused to remove a picture of wanted Shiite Muslim leader Moqtada Sadr from his car, police said today.
...
After the man refused to remove Sadr's picture from his car, the soldiers forced him out of the vehicle and started beating him with truncheons, he said.
US troops also detained from the same area five men wearing black pants and shirts, the usual attire of Sadr's Mehdi Army militiamen and followers.
Qassem Hassan, the director of Kut general hospital, identified the man as Salem Hassan, a resident of a Kut suburb.
What I noticed about that WaPo quote was the explicit slam at Poppy.
But it is scary that Bush seems to think he's a direct messenger from God.
nice roundup there Vincent.
Somehow I don't think Iraqis would agree with National Review's evaluation of priorities in Iraq.
pie, it's crap like that which makes glad - proud - to be agnostic.
What a crying shame that the 21st century looks a lot more like the 11th century.
Fuzzy Puppy, 1:32AM post:
Mahmood Mamdini was the guy on NOW last night, in the Good Muslim, Bad Muslim segment w/ Bill Moyers.
NOW has a brief description/bio on its PBS.org site.
There are a few links, one to NYTimes. I realized I'd read something by him which emphasized that the various US governments fighting out the Cold War had created the elements which "blew back" 9/11 onto our shores.
Last night's discussion brought out the fundamentalist/desire for end-of-times attitudes of al Sadr and Bush. Reading this comments thread brought to my attention Blair's religious bent.
I had always assumed Blair's religion was the more rational, enlightened, humanistic version. I could not understand his full square backing of anything Bush put forward (although previously he was pushing back on Bush's Palestinian/Israeli policies and, we thought, tried to get Bush to involve the UN). I still don't. But maybe their shared evangelism is part of it....
Alas.
Once the political process moves ahead, nationalism will work in our favor, as Iraqis seek to become the leading reformers in the Arab world.
Howzat?
___
From the leftcoaster link that chris/tx posted last night:
Powell and his deputy and closest friend, Richard L. Armitage
Powell's best friend is Armitage, and Powell is supposed to be the "moderate" in regime?
Bit late, but would like to add to Seraphiel's list:
Henry Kissinger the war criminal, from whose hands the blood can never be washed.
Monica_nyc,
I now believe that there are NO moderates in this regime...all voice of reason or sanity have now all picked up the kool aid and have drank deeply!!
I think as a form of protest er.. tribute, Iraqis should create images of Bush I or/and Bush II in the flooring of the foyer of their homes.
If questioned about it, they can tell the authorities it represents "cultural heritage" er.. "tribute" to the brave, conquering heroes. 
Liberators
An Iraqi has died of his wounds after US troops beat him with truncheons because he refused to remove a picture of wanted Shiite Muslim leader Moqtada Sadr from his car, police said today.
wtfwjd?
Oh, wonderful. Bet some right winger points out the source, Agence France-Presse.
Anyone who doesn't realize that Iraq is already "lost" is deluding themselves. Unless the UN comes in, and there is no reason to believe that it's going to REALLY take over the worst is yet to come.
Makes you wonder what the mercenaries are up to. You know, the ones who are there by choice.
Also from the leftcoaster link:
"I believe we have a duty to free people," Bush told Woodward. " I would hope we wouldn't have to do it militarily, but we have a duty."
Seraphiel's list:
The Washington Press Club? Pretty much the whole thing?
Robert M. Jeffers you had some good insights.
And yes, renato the latest events do seem to have, if not similarities to the "11th century", the "look and feel" of it.
Dare I say, it's beginning to look
renato, yes, you're correct. How did someone like this become president?
And to think I used to think that having a movie actor preznit was troubling.
http://www.michaelberube.com/ind...dex.php?
id=P121
darryl pearce:
You left out the most appropriate lines:
The best lack all conviction, while the worst/
Are full of passionate intensity.
Well, that was true until the past two years or so. Now the best are full of passionate intensity. Hope it's a match for the black box and the Idiot Media Chorus.
Moyer's guest on NOW last night was Mahmud Mamdani. He said some startling things (not surprising though and not necessarily in this order):
bin Laden and bush are mimicking each other;
terrorism is an outcome of American cold war policy (here of course he talked about Afghanistan/Soviets);
the war on terror is a political war, not religious;
9/11 was a political act (he said OBL is a politician);
OBL convinced bush terrorism was a global threat.
Didn't they used to threaten people who said things like that? But Mamdani has already been exiled from his native country of Uganda so it wouldn't be new to him.
Later Friday night, a show called "Touching Evil" had a plot where a returned US soldier went crazy and started killing his troop/mates and dressed them as if for a Muslim burial -- did anybody see that? It was very interesting and probably more than a little prescient. We can only imagine what this is doing to these young people's psyches.
And if Kerry wins...mark my words...the world is gonna REJOYCE!
reJoyce - Grace Slick - 1967
Chemical change like a laser beam
you've shattered the warning amber light
Make me warm
let me see you moving everything over
smiling in my room
you know you'll be inside of my mind soon.
There are so many of you.
White shirt and tie, white shirt and tie,
white shirt and tie, wedding ring, wedding ring.
Mulligan stew for Bloom,
the only Jew in the room
Saxon's sick on the holy dregs
and their constant getting throw up on his leg.
Molly's gone to blazes,
Boylan's crotch amazes
any woman whose husband sleeps with his head
all buried down at the foot of his bed.
I've got his arm
I've got his arm
I've had it for weeks
I've got his arm
Steven won't give his arm
to no gold star mother's farm;
War's good business so give your son
and I'd rather have my country die for me.
Sell your mother for a Hershey bar
grow up looking like a car
there are;
All you want to do is live,
all you want to do is give but
some how it all falls apart!
Anyone who does not believe that Westerners and some Israelis are plotting to subjugate the Arabs is just stupid. It's called, "power politics". A bunch of poor people ruled by kleptocrats sit on a pile of oil - of course better organized states try to control them and keep them in thrall. When "intellectuals" insist that power politics should be covered up by fairy tales, it's called "propaganda" or "lying". The fact that many Arabs see undeniable reality through a lens of ignorance and racism, doesn't make it any less real.
Nicely phrased, citizen k. What bitterly amuses me about crap like that Brooks column is that they are still pretended than this government has ever had an intention to bring democracy to Iraq. Or ever had any intention of giving up their bases and stranglehold there once they got it. Do they think the Iraqis are just stupid and can't notice that Americans will still be controlling their military, their foreign policy, and their economy after this supposed 'turnover'?
Bush Lied...Impeach NOW!
Because the Constitution doesn't vest the power of war in traitors, even religious traitors, and the soldiers aren't toilet paper for Bushliar's bad ideas.
'Hey, Jim, can you go to the closet and get the Howard Dean out, and wind him up? Cause this Kerry model doesn't seem to be able to distinguish a clusterfuck in a clownsuit from a foreign policy worth pursuing.'
'We ain't voting for a slightly different clownsuit that talks slower and seems to know what the words mean.
We need a new president AND a new policy.'
Wind up Howard Dean, so we can split the Convention.
That last lyric on Rejoyce is:
There are so many of you,
Sell your mother for a Hershey bar,
grow up looking like a car.
There are .... (so many of you),
All you want to do is live,
all you want to do is live but
some how it all falls apart!
--
"That's not to say all hope is lost. Slowly but surely, things are actually getting better for the Iraqi people. Everything except security and safety, of course. ... It's too bad no one is able to notice. I guess that's just hard to do right now. "
Always nice to hear from MERCENARIES how much 'the Iraqis' are loving their new country. I'm sure the mercs have interviewed so many of the 20+ million in the country, that comparing it with their vast knowledge of the culture, the conclusion that the snail is on the thorn JUST LEAPS OUT AT YOU.
The 40,000 completely innocent people splattered against their kitchen walls...that's OK. And the 20,000 mercs like this schmo wandering around with their total legal waiver regardless of what they do, they're the real observers. What happened here? Oh, that whole group of Iraqis walked into a bullet hailstorm that came from the sky.
These pigs are fighting next to our soldiers, who fight under the UCMJ. Our soldiers pay the price for the actions of the mercs, along with the civilians they can quite 'legally' slaughter at will.
President Warcrime and his droogies. But that ain't Beethoven's Fifth coming out of the Oval Office. The cook served beans again, the Traitor-in-Chief's favorite dish, and he's enjoying mooning the crowds on Penn Ave.
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