I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
last
Just what will I tell my daughter after a nuke takes out an American city?I'm sorry babe,but our president sat on his ass here in texas and now people are dead because he let the bad guys get away when he had them in his sights.
This Woodward book will be interesting. I imagine Woodward sitting there interviewing the President knowing full well how he was going to write the book and how damaging it would be to this Administration. Bush, on the otherhand, is completely clueless of the shit storm he willingly walked into when he granted this access. It just goes to show that self-delusions of grandeur will get you everytime.
"This President speaks with moral clarity"
?????????????
ponnyj,
Woodward probably had Bush thinking he was on Bush's side and blindly loyal like most of Bush's Yes Men after the paean... er... book "Bush at War" Woodward put out on the Afghan War last year.
But what will it take to wake up the sheeple? Remember when we used to say of the Germans, "How could they sit back and let it happen?" Well . . .
If you ask me Booby's book is a very sophisticated form of damage control. Mostly for Powell, but also for Bush.
We know from documents optained and posted by Judicial Watch that the Cheney energy task force was looking at maps of Iraq with oil desposits marked in the spring of 2001. Booby's account of Bush planning for war in November of 2001 distracts our attention from the far more damaging documents optained by Judicial Watch.
Remember when we used to say of the Germans, "How could they sit back and let it happen?"
I have thought of that a thousand times
In the same vein, 56k, our military men and gals opening up on Iraqi civilians may have to respond to "But I was just following orders!"
This guy just lies left and right and thinks he can get away with it because the press has been such willing accomplices over the last three years.
But it's starting to change. The press is starting to wake up and pay attention. They're starting to call his BS.
We've got to keep the pressure on, though, and I think Democrats need to start pushing the Bush as liar meme hard. I don't think it's appropriate for Kerry to push it--that could backfire. But other Democrats should go after it big time. If we can wake people up to the fact that Bush lies left and right and make it to be a generally accepted fact (since it is) then that will seriously damage him come November.
That and about a million other things. But hey, we should never pass up a good opportunity.
- Joel
----
Nightmares For Sale - another damn blog (that you really should check out)
http://aimlessmind.blogspot.com/ or click my name
He's a liar, an idiot and a threat to the globe. I can't sleep at night, worrying about the world. If Kerry wins he'll have an olympian task ahead. We need a hero.
axe grinding alert-
when the history of this filthy little war is written, there will be a special chapter on the role of Rupert Murdoch and Irwin Stelzer
Why does the truth hate America?
Remember when we used to say of the Germans, "How could they sit back and let it happen?"
Shitty economies and nationalistic fervor have a way of making good people act bad.
I remember getting into a heated argument with a colleague when we were on the road together last May. We started on Iraq, and ended up talking about my fears of a police state, fascism, etc. I brought up PATRIOT and other things that worried me. He literally said, "[Bad shit] can't happen here. This isn't Germany. This is America!" Sorry, but we're not constitutionally any better than any other people on Earth. Our government can and does go astray, and we must be ever vigilant.
We, the irate, tireless minority have to keep the faith and continue to hammer home the message about the dangers BushCo represents.
It wasn't like he lied about sex. No, our God Fearing Leader only lied about war. It was for our own good.
Bush/Cheney: They Can't Stop Lying!
Every time something big like this comes up, I keep thinking "this will be the straw that breaks the camel's back." At this point, all I can surmise is that that is one strong goddamn camel.
Pretzel Boy and all the rest of his evil cabal should have been impeached, tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail many times over by now, yet the approval numbers remain high. The general public remains confident in him and a large portion of the mainstream press can't or won't press the issues, so he skates.
It would be great of this is the information that helps bring him down, but I remain sleptical.
Sorry, but we're not constitutionally any better than any other people on Earth.
In fact you Americans ought to be a hell of a lot more vigilant about your government than any other people. Your leaders, after all, have the power to kill any number of human beings in any country at any time.
If YOU do not keep a check on your leaders' actions in your name, they will keep killing. In the long run, "terrorists" will come to visit you in your home towns.
It's Official: Now that the Not Insane Wing of the Bush Administration has compared the Insane Wing to the Nazis, I guess the left - even the Insane, loudmouth wing of the Left - is off the hook. It's all in yesterday's Post - Colin Powell called Douglas Feith's HQ for Neo-Con Intel Cons emanting from Darth Veep and the Pentagon's Fearsome, Ruthless Civilian Overseers a "Gestapo Office". That's a quote from Woody's new book.
It appears the truth is more nuanced than some of the anti-war crowd would have us believe (like those two guys who submitted the MoveOn ad demos that nobody paid any attention to except for Ed Gillespie). The Bush Administration isn't just like the Nazis. It's that SOME OF THEM strike OTHERS AMONG THEM as Gestapo-like in their tactics. Okay.!
Now if only Colin was willing to appear in a MoveOn ad and spill his guts to the camera.
what a fucktard
Incidentally, I'll be expecting Andrew Sullivan to go after Powell with both barrels (he does have two barrels, doesn't he ?) for the Gestapo remark. This country needs Andy to keep our level of discourse on the highest possible plane (and to expose liberal Fifth Columnists who hate America and aid the enemy.)
When you gonna get it? Them sand nigras in Eyrack made the mistake of of building homes on top of my oil. Plus they're scarin' my buddy Mr. Sharon. Its time for them to play ball, come in for the big win. Otherwise, I'm afraid me and Mr. Chaney can't be responsible for what happens next.
When will we have a chance of demonstrating the truth? Some of that may depend on whether the Bushies get away with another impending outrage. Please pay attention to the proposed forced resignation of John Carlin, Archivist of the United States, and his fast-track replacement by Allen Weinstein, bypassing Senate confirmation. There was a link on BushWatch this morning to a report on the History News Network (www.hhn.us) that you should read. The idea of course is to have the discretionary power of the archivist to reveal or conceal documents in friendlier hands.
Kerry says we need more troops over there. How is Kerry going to tell someone he has to be the last soldier to die for a mistake?
The general public remains confident in him
I don't believe that's true.
_____
Blair was a modern reformer, Stelzer proclaimed, who had put the Methodist chapel back at the center stage of the Labour Party. He had put "sin" - a concept that Stelzer linked with "the undeserving poor" - back into political discourse.
Jee-zus.
Why would anyone NOT tell their children that politicians who try to run the country are by and large, in the main, dollars for donuts liars all?
My children have known for years my thoughts on the so-called leaders ... and that if they get as far as a national podium, chances are they've only a shred of integrity left, if that.
I'm continually amazed by the people in the US being stunned by the notion that their "leaders" are lying to them. They don't have his delusion in Europe. They assume that the leaders are lying.
Just when I think I can't be amazed again, I am.
AKA Donna
Speaking of the wheels coming off the Bush cart... I happened to hear Randi Rhodes for the first time ever on Friday (yesterday), streaming on Air America radio. Daaayum! That woman is ON FIRE. She was TOASTING the Bush admin as knowing full well 9-11 was going to happen, and she was ready with facts and arguments. Honestly, I don't know what I think happened, but here it was being discussed, and she didn't get any callers (while I listened) that she didn't just slay.
You've probably heard it from Gore Vidal or elsewhere: the inexplicable lack of NORAD & fighter jets, Bush's odd behavior, etc. I have a hell of a time accepting this even of THIS gang of crooks and liars, but I sure can't explain it away either...
There is no doubt that Bush lied to Congress about the reasons for invading Iraq.
This is a felony.
This is an impeachable offense.
the only thing which makes sense to me at this time is that the dems are waiting to see if the American people will get rid of Bush and thus avoid another impeachment hearing (other than the truth that the weasles who control both houses are running a protection racket for the thief in chief.)
But it seems to me this is another mistake, in the same way that not holding Raygun accountable for his impeachable offense regarding Iran/Contra made it possible for his thugs to be running ME policy right now.
I do not see how the republicans can honestly win an election because the conservatives (and of course the liberals) I see and hear think that bush is not only the WORST PRESIDENT EVER, he's also the most dangerous.
If we get diebolded, all bets are off for the US. If people do not take action, en masse to stop the neocon's pursuit of WW3 (4 if you're Woolsey), then we can all stick a fork in democracy because it will be done.
The American people are going to have to stop the nutcases who are leading to our destruction.
The Cheney energy task force had maps of Iraqi Oil fields
Kerry says we need more troops over there. How is Kerry going to tell someone he has to be the last soldier to die for a mistake?
Please. Just stop. Your stupidity is hard to look at.
Bush lied? Stop the presses!
As for the Germans, most of them didn't think that was "bad shit" because they had a decade of the Nazis telling them their neighbors were the problem.
How long has Liberal been a "dirty word" in the US again?
I have a question about Woodward, and it doesn't come from disbelief but from pure curiosity. I know there are tons of rumors about his CIA ties or whatever, but I'm really wondering where he gets his sources--I mean, this has been an unusually tight-lipped administration that, when they do run their mouths, the same scripted shit comes out. I don't want to impugn Woodward's integrity at all, but I wonder how credible his story is, just for the sake of what will necessarily be a defensible position.
Any ideas?
What a comparison for the possible millenium terrorism plot in December 1999. Our state ferries in Seattle had the feds helping out our local pd for terrorist plots - let's see - would that be Big Dog's bureaucrats??? --- I didn't hear anything like that from Dubya's crack staff in the Summer of '01. The difference is apparent and telling. What a complete shell game they took us all for.
Maybe that's why they declared today "Pray for President Bush Day" over at the Free Republic.
http://tinyurl.com/2bmpt
I apologize for that last obtuse sentence, but hopefully y'all see what I'm saying.
Booby's source is always Colin Powell, which is why Powell gets such great press.
Powell has always been an aparatchik
God, I would just love it if there were video footage of this lie.
BTW - was there any progress on finding out yet where the $700 in planning money came from, and whether it came from legally restricted appropriations? (I haven't heard any Dem complaints yet, but that may change on Monday.)
Have you noticed on days when major Bush lies are revealed in the American media, Israel assasinates a Palestinian leader and that takes the lead headline in major media.
Just sayin...
See, Atrios?
There was nothing ANYONE could have done to stop the war in Iraq.
Except, maybe, Antonin Scalia in late 2000.
Wes Clark could have gone on a hunger strike, or drenched himself in lighter fluid, or taken everyone in Times Square hostage on New Year's Eve, or held the Pope at gunpoint -- and it wouldn't have made a bit of difference.
"If Kerry wins he'll have an olympian task ahead. We need a hero.
Jenny from the Blog"
Unless Kevin Bacon plans to dance his way into office, you ain't getting one in Kerry. Isn't he now supporting Bushco's Sharon policy? And didn't he go against his own party and the majority of the world population to vote for IWR?
Kermit the Lying General nearly fainted when he heard the news...
Well, I'm feeling a bit optimistic today, so after just reading for a couple of weeks...
One of my colleagues, a new poppa and firmly anti-choice, has come around and declared that not only won't he vote for Bush, but if we could get rid of him now, he would contribute to the effort. He has actually apologized for ever thinking Buschco was doing right by America. One at a time folks - we are making progress.
On my pessimistic days, like yesterday, I believe that the hearings, books, blogs, etc. are being permitted by the evil empire just to let people like us blow off steam. Better we sit at our computers and rant, then go out on the streets and rave. That being said - once they try to revive the draft which will impact the middle class big time, all hell will break loose. Or maybe that's just me being an optimist.
Turbino - it does strain the bounds of credulity to say the least.
What I can't understand is the ho-hum attitude so many seem to have about Bush's repeated declarations that if he had known when, where, and how the 9/11 attacks would occur, he would have done everything in his power to stop them. Well, duh. Under such a scenario, not doing anything would be a breach of the oath of office and a criminal action.
This is supposed to be a guy who's "strong on defense?" It's comforting to know that had Osama bin Laden sent the Bushies an engraved announcement about his plans, they would have tried to intervene. The obvious problem with this scenario is that terrorists are never going to be that cooperative, because, of course, it would prevent them from carrying out attacks. And yet this lame-ass excuse has been accepted by most of the press and many people after being repeatedly trotted out by Bush himself, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, and probably others as well.
WRT Kerry: In the first place, we don't know what Kerry will do once he's elected. I don't necessarily get too concerned over campaign rhetoric. But in this instance, I believe that Kerry is responding to the military's pleas for help. It is not helping anything that more people are dying because there aren't enough troops to maintain any calm in Iraq. I want the war to be stopped and the troops to come home, and if Kerry doesn't do that once he's elected, then I will be the first to cry out and begin to demand it.
But I'd rather leave Kerry's position to one side right now and just get him elected so that we don't have a fundamentalist head case with access to the red button.
You know what occurred to be today? Osama Bin Laden is still out there. I mean, we are the most powerful force on the globe, and we let a guy with a beard and a goat get away. Shouldn't we have been able to get him? Bombs? Planes? Special forces?
How did that happen? How could we NOT have caught the guy? I'm beside myself.
There was nothing ANYONE could have done to stop the war in Iraq.
Except, maybe, Antonin Scalia in late 2000.
Wes Clark could have gone on a hunger strike, or drenched himself in lighter fluid, or taken everyone in Times Square hostage on New Year's Eve, or held the Pope at gunpoint -- and it wouldn't have made a bit of difference.
goldstone
Hmm, well Clinton and Carter could both have come out against the war. Clinton could have admitted that Saddam had been defanged.
No Democrat could have voted for IWR. Thus making it look strictly partisan, and seeming more threatening to Republicans as a whole.
Off the top of my head it would have made it much harder.
Oh and back in 2000 at least one senator could have voted to support the Black Congressional caucus and their Bush bill.
Gee, wasn't Kerry a senator then?
Joe Briefcase: of course rank anti-Semites like us are of the opinion that that's backwards: IDF plans an illegal but public op, Mossad faxes some garbled nonsense (actually coded messages! The decidedly unEnglish word order is encrypted Yiddish! Fool us once, Mr Preznit...) directly into Shrub's head...
"not only the WORST PRESIDENT EVER, he's also the most dangerous."
not trying to argue faux, but i think you should have capped, MOST DANGEROUS PRESIDENT EVER!!!
of reagan i frequently said to myself, if he had brains he'd be dangerous. bush has proved to me, no brains required.
56k,
I think the rebuttal argument about the Cheney energy task force and Iraqi oil maps will be that it was part of Cheney's big personal push to invade Iraq, but that Bush himself hadn't made any specific determination to invade until '03. As we all know, Bush only went to war as a last resort! (Hah!)
That Energy Task force also really pissed me off b/c they went to work on that piece of shit right away and they were able to submit the final report on May 1, 2001. A week later, on May 6, Georgie announced that he would have Cheney lead a Counter-terrorism task force to review ct efforts and structure. Of course, this was blown off and there were no meetings held before 9/11.
Bastards.
Oh, and Rumsfeld and Myers shared highly classified "NOFORN" (no foreigners) intelligence about the Iraq war with Prince Bandar of Saudi Arabaia BEFORE that intelligence was even shared with Colin Powell.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp...-
2004Apr17.html
WRT Kerry: In the first place, we don't know what Kerry will do once he's elected. I don't necessarily get too concerned over campaign rhetoric. But in this instance, I believe that Kerry is responding to the military's pleas for help. It is not helping anything that more people are dying because there aren't enough troops to maintain any calm in Iraq. I want the war to be stopped and the troops to come home, and if Kerry doesn't do that once he's elected, then I will be the first to cry out and begin to demand it.
Tena
Pull the other one no
Se when it is bush keeping the war going YOUR VOICE WILL BE IN CAPS, ILLUSTRATING THE DEPTH OF YOUR OUTRAGE!!!
but when it comes to the outrage of a kerry admin, i bet your voice shrinks quicker than the Atom ever did.
Remember when we used to say of the Germans, "How could they sit back and let it happen?"
"Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship ... Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger." -- Hermann Goering
"The Bush Administration isn't just like the Nazis. It's that SOME OF THEM strike OTHERS AMONG THEM as Gestapo-like in their tactics."
It's not just a matter of tactics, it's a matter of belief and intention.
Who are the SOME and who are the OTHERS? I think I know who the bad guys are, but can someone tell me who, among the Bush Administration, are the good guys?
Jennifer - someone pointed out the other day, too, how inconsistent Bush's claim of not having enough information to do anything about Al Qaeda is with his position on Iraq. I mean, did Saddam send Bush an engraved invitation that said: "I've got all the WMDs you can imagine; come and get me, sucker!" No. So on the one hand, there is Bush saying "But I didn't have the flight numbers," and on the other he says "we couldn't afford to wait until Saddam set off a weapon, we had to go in now."
I can't understand why people can't recognize that these two claims cancel each other out.
Anonymous
http://www.libertyforum.org/show...=-
1#Post1399589
The Bush Administration’s Response to the Assassination
While not overtly endorsing the attack, President Bush declared on March 23 that “ Israel has a right to defend herself from terror.” A day earlier, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice defended the assassination by saying “Let’s remember that Hamas is a terrorist organization, and Sheik Yassin has himself, we believe, been involved in terrorist planning.” (She gave no evidence to back up her claims of Yassin’s personal involvement in planning terrorist operations.)
The strongest language against the attack the Bush administration could use was uttered by spokesman Scott McLellan on the day of the attack, when he said that “the United States is deeply troubled by this morning’s action in Gaza.” Democrats in the House of Representatives, however, attacked the Bush administration from the right, with Rep. Gary Ackerman (NY)--joined by Robert Matsui (CA), Barney Frank (MA), Nita Lowey (NY), Shelley Berkley (NV), Brad Sherman (CA), Carolyn McCarthy (NY), Ed Markey (MA), Martin Frost (TX), and other Democratic leaders--demanding that President Bush “immediately repudiate” McLellan’s statement.
In any event, the Bush administration response to Israel’s assassinations policy was a lot milder than it had been previously. Last summer, for example, following Israel’s unsuccessful assassination attempt against Rantisi, which killed a female bystander and wounded dozens of others, President Bush declared, “I regret the loss of innocent life. I'm concerned that the attacks will make it more difficult for the Palestinian leadership to fight off terrorist attacks. I also don’t believe the attacks help the Israeli security.”
The Democratic response to this moderate response from the administration, however, was even more vociferous. The entire House Democratic leadership--Minority leader Nancy Pelosi (CA), Deputy leader Steny Hoyer (MD), Caucus Chair Robert Menendez (NJ), ranking House International Relations Committee ranking member Tom Lantos (CA), and dozens of others--wrote a letter to President Bush saying that they were “deeply dismayed” by his comments. The Democrats claimed that “ the attack on Hamas leader Abdel Rantisi was clearly justified as an application of Israel ’s right to self-defense,” and that Israel ’s assassination policy must have “the full support of the United States.”
It is noteworthy that the majority of the Democratic leaders signing these letters are on record opposing the death penalty, even in cases where a mass murderer like Timothy McVeigh has been granted a fair trial by jury and other Constitutional guarantees. McVeigh, however, is a white American. By contrast, if the suspect is a Palestinian, these Democrats appear to believe that not only is execution an appropriate punishment, no due process is required. This is yet another example of t
It is noteworthy that the majority of the Democratic leaders signing these letters are on record opposing the death penalty, even in cases where a mass murderer like Timothy McVeigh has been granted a fair trial by jury and other Constitutional guarantees. McVeigh, however, is a white American. By contrast, if the suspect is a Palestinian, these Democrats appear to believe that not only is execution an appropriate punishment, no due process is required. This is yet another example of the vicious and endemic anti-Arab racism in the Democratic Party.
Disillusioned - what is your answer? Elect Bush?
http://antiwar.com/orig/pilger.p...?
articleid=2089
One year later, the Progressive Policy Institute, an arm of the Democratic Leadership Council, published a 19-page manifesto for the "New Democrats," who include all the principal Democratic Party candidates, and especially John Kerry. This called for "the bold exercise of American power" at the heart of "a new Democratic strategy, grounded in the party's tradition of muscular internationalism." Such a strategy would "keep Americans safer than the Republicans' go-it-alone policy, which has alienated our natural allies and overstretched our resources. We aim to rebuild the moral foundation of US global leadership . . ."
What is the difference from the vainglorious claptrap of Bush? Apart from euphemisms, there is none. All the leading Democratic presidential candidates supported the invasion of Iraq, bar one: Howard Dean. Kerry not only voted for the invasion, but expressed his disappointment that it had not gone according to plan. He told Rolling Stone magazine: "Did I expect George Bush to f*** it up as badly as he did? I don't think anybody did." Neither Kerry nor any of the other candidates has called for an end to the bloody and illegal occupation; on the contrary, all of them have demanded more troops for Iraq. Kerry has called for another "40,000 active service troops." He has supported Bush's continuing bloody assault on Afghanistan, and the administration's plans to "return Latin America to American leadership" by subverting democracy in Venezuela.
Bush, Rice, ad nauseum, lie about this "if only we had known" line all the time by making the "if only" SO SPECIFIC that they can get by with a lie
...sort of like that outrageous "is is" moment for Clinton. (and just because someone is smart, that action goes to show you that smart people can do stupid things. If only he had said that the whole thing was no one's business, we probably wouldn't be in such a mess right now.)
I would like to see all the other PBDs, not just one day, to see what the tone of the briefings were over the course of the summer, for instance.
Of course, as he has shown yet again as fighting escalated in Iraq, Bush is practically "french" in his insistence on his month-long Aug. vacation.
Unfortunately, the 9-11 commission will not even go into these issues...and it seems to me it should be of special interest to the commission to find out what sorts of plans to invade Iraq were taking up so much time and energy for the Bush administration (along with son of SDI bullshit).
Because of those distractions, the Bush administration was also asleep at the wheel, to put it nicely, although my personal opinion is that they engaged in a little Machiavellian "operation northwoods" new pearl harbor "neglect."
Turbino,
Rhandi also always clearly states that she was really reluctant to believe that Bush "knew."
Although I'm sure they don't believe that Bush knew, it is interesting that several 9/11 panelists, including Chairman Kean and Ben-Veniste, have publically stated that as a result of their work they now believe that 9/11 could have been prevented whereas going in they didn't think that would be the case.
The more we learn, the more outrage there is.
Dingbat -- In my experience "senior staffers" often know more about what's going on than principals. The interesting part is that they haven't been gagged. Of course some of them are ungaggable. But still. It likely means that they want their side of the story told even more than they want to support their bosses. And, in some cases, they have been told to talk. It gets all the more interesting when the "high administration officials" are all at each others' throats as we're told they are now!
Disillusioned - that's a pretty broad statement - that the Democratic party is anti-Muslim.
I did not have military discussions about that man, Saddam Hussein.
Once again, please don't post long URLs in your comments.
They blow out the Haloscan formatting and make
it very hard for others to read the comments.
It's VERY EASY to embed a URL link in your
comments.
Please see the web pages I've set up at:
http://tinyurl.com/2bzyk,
or:
http://web.newsguy.com/christucker/tips.html
for details on how to embed a URL, use tinyurl.com or
use the "URL" field above the comments box.
Thank you for your kind attention!
Mike In PR - that was a bit of irony...based on Powell's "Gestapo" tag. You were supposed to chuckle, not ask for a dossier...
In fact you Americans ought to be a hell of a lot more vigilant about your government than any other people.
Concur 100%. The fact that we have real WMD is a great responsibility. Our current spate of irresponsible acts combined with our immense power to destroy is why most of the world thinks we're the greatest threat to peace and security in the world.
They blow out the Haloscan formatting and make
it very hard for others to read the comments.
I have never seen this. Please demonstrate.
Honestly. I run XP and IE and I have never seen this problem.
I also didn't want to believe that Bush knew...and in fact, maybe he didn't, since he only knows what he is told or the bedtime stories that Cheney whispers in his ear...but in any case, such ignorance would be no excuse for the POTUS.
such plausible deniability would fit with the Cardinal Richlieu sort of situation Bush has in place with the neocons, though...they could no doubt manipulate him easily by appealing to his fundie side. (btw, you know, a lot of alcholics get religion in the same way Bush claims he has, whether he has or not.)
but, no, I did not want to believe it was possible that the same people who plotted to steal and election and resorted to such tactics as flying in operatives to stop a recount or who used the highest court in the land with clear conflicts of interest to shit on the Constitution...but considering that all that happened, and considering that I do think they knew...their desperate power grab in 2000 makes all the more sense.
Why does the truth hate America?
Brian A.
* * *
If YOU do not keep a check on your leaders' actions in your name, they will keep killing. In the long run, "terrorists" will come to visit you in your home towns.
Stepanovich
Alas, you're both right.
Today I come to you fresh from the road.
The Big Lie is alive and well in affluent America. The Big Lie is so deeply ingrained in the fabric of America that the white Wepublican American sees it as the Truth. And not just the Truth, the Righteously ordained Gospel. Any one not part of the Solution is part of the Problem.
Their Beautiful Minds can not be soiled with body counts. Their Beautiful Minds live in a Garden, and to remind them of their realities makes you and I as much a part of the Problem as Usama bin Laden. More so, in fact, because the entire Saudi regime exists in their blind spot, since it wants Dear Leader as the Codpiece-in-Chief.
Those of us not part of their dream live in a Neverwhere. They can not, and will not see us as we are. When we fail to fit their world view, everything we say, think, or do can not be seen for what it truly is.
Bush will "win" in 2004. These people simply will not accept any other outcome. But the Wepublicans are not the only Reality in this world, and their blinders make them easily manipulated by those who wish all of us harm.
For instance, the Wahhabi fundamentalists, whose world view is curiously similar to much of Christian fundamentalism.
The Storm is coming.
Campaign $$$ Totals/Details:
George W Bush
John Kerry
Salt Water, give it a rest, will you?
There is no other choice.
There is no other choice.
There is no other choice.
And Kerry will be a better president than the boy king.
fauxreal,
don't get too discouraged about the 9/11 commission. As for the other pdb's, you are right. As Clarke has said, the August 6 PDB is somewhat overblown b/c Tenet was giving georgie "hey, whaasup w/ gary condit" bush continuous stark intelligence.
As I understand it, only one or two commissioners have been allowed to look at them, with no notes allowed. (I believe that Gorelick is one of them b/c of her highest security clearance.)
Disillusioned - what is your answer? Elect Bush?
Tena
Better politicians.
I see one party line proposed by two different groups.
What kind of choice is that?
Sure all politicians sell the illusion of populism.
But how many act FOR the populace?
http://www.safesearching.com/
bil...anscripts.shtml
"CARLIN: And the liberals are just as bad on this issue as the conservatives. [applause]
MAHER: Worse.
CARLIN: Because of "politically correct" speech."
"So knock off the "regular guy" act. And by the way, that also goes for John Forbes Kerry, the "other white meat." [laughter] [applause] Two Skull-and-Bones preppies these guys are, from Nantucket and Kennebunkport, who use the word, "summer" as a verb. [laughter] [applause]
Please, John Kerry, stop rolling up your sleeves like you're about to man a register at Costco. [laughter] You're a Boston Brahmin who married not one, but two eccentric heiresses. You're not Joe Six-Pack; you're Claus von Bulow. [laughter] [applause] I mean, please, I think your current wife is great. But, hello, she inherited the Heinz fortune! She's the ketchup lady! [laughter] Which explains why sometimes he's got to smack her on the bottom to get her to come. [laughter] [applause] [cheers]"
I agree that bobby's latest bush & tell seems a kind of Bush damage control.
Mebbe the press conference blackout reflects Bar's panicky thinking that the regular guy and good christian images can dissolve Junior's dumb ass hard candy shell.
Shucks, I might not have all them words ready in my head but I can burp and say my prayers.
Anybody see the DNC's new Mistakes Were Made video?
I again agree with posts saying the hits must continue. Kerry kicked it up a notch in Pittsburgh.
The Prez is obviously heading for some type of Nixonian breakdown and it is our duty to assist him down this path.
And Kerry will be a better president than the boy king.
pie
Unless you are the best god damned psychic in the world, you can NOT prove that claim today.
So don't make it.
The only HONEST claim that can be made is he will be DIFFERENT ( on some issues) than Bush.
Disillusioned, you're a disgusting asshole.
You make my skin crawl.
Get lost, clown.
kelley b,
How right you are, the storm is coming. The most dangerous phenomenon of them all in contemporary America is millenialist fundamentalism. No, wait, there's something even worse. It's the vast majority's icky, vague belief that God is on our side, always and ever. Because they come floating in on clouds of "God," the crazies who want to get raptured are never challenged by the larger society.
disillusioned, you are a sick f**k.
This is the most important election since 1864 and you are complaining about Kerry's wealth. How many more people do you want killed in the world so that conditions will such that you can build your revolution?
From Just heard from Garrison Keillor
It went like this.
Staffer: Mr. President, did you know Cheney has acute angina?
Bush: Don't be silly, men don't have anginas.
Disillusioned - that's a pretty broad statement - that the Democratic party is anti-Muslim.
Tena
I don't wholly agree with the site on every issue. But in this case the facts speak for themselves.
The Democrats supported the bombing of an old man in a wheelchair.
He couldn't run, so why wasn't he merely arrested? The Israeli's knew where he was.
Where is the outrage from the Democrats on this?
Of course where was their outrage over the FALSE McKinney accusations, and the Isareli money pumped in to oust her.
jr
Clearly you have selectively read and responded to a minor part of my posts about both Kerry and the Democrats.
I suggest you go back and read everything I posted.
Then you won't look like such a fool.
One thing not being discussed/reported: The "stove-piping" of raw intel through the WH to upper levels of decision making. Previous administrations always had FBI and CIA liaisons who had sifted through the raw intel, bringing in the information only after it was vetted and determined to be CREDIBLE. Cheney was thought to have initiated the practice of sifting through the raw intel, looking for gems to use against Hussein. The WH was looking at so much raw intel that when the CIA brought in a credible threat warning (Aug. 6, '01) that this Admin. didn't recognize the credibility, therefore didn't act on it, especially since that lunatic Richard Clarke was agreeing with the credibility!
zepper
http://www.wired.com/wired/
archi...tw=wn_tophead_5
The Ends of the Earth
5 reasons why the planet is going to hell.
By Bruce Sterling
Global dimming: The sunlight reaching Earth's surface is getting feebler. Assuming there's nothing wrong with the sun, some unknown atmospheric factor is steadily darkening the planet.
Evidence: In 1985, Atsumu Ohmura, a climatologist at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, checked sunlight records in Switzerland and discovered that solar radiation had declined a startling 10 percent in 30 years. Subsequent studies found the same effect in Ireland, Japan, the former Soviet Union, and at both poles, but scientists remained in denial. A 2001 metastudy confirmed Ohmura's findings.
Implications: This is an entirely unexpected phenomenon, even more off the wall than global warming. Who put out the lights? How will we eat?
Unpredictable day length: Eighteenth-century astronomers suspected that Earth's daily rotation on its axis was slowing, and the advent of the quartz clock in the 1930s proved them right. But new evidence indicates the planet's spin has been speeding up since 1999. Nobody knows why.
Evidence: Atomic clock readings taken by the National Institute of Standards and Technology in Boulder, Colorado, prove that the slowing trend has inexplicably reversed.
Implications: Days of unpredictably varying length can affect communications, air traffic control, financial markets, telescopes, and any data interchange that requires absolute synchrony. Technicians dealt with the rotational slowdown by adding "leap seconds," but if we can't count on Mother's timing, we've got software problems.
Disillusioned, vote Kerry.
Even if Kerry would serve the military-industrial corporations the way Bush does, there is a matter of degree.
Kerry as president offers us chance to influence the Process. Kerry wants to work for the common good and can be modulated if we are willing to work hard to change society. Unfortunately Kerry must live and work with a significant part of this nation that has become hypnotized by its own delusions of power and grandeur.
With Kerry as president, we stand a much better chance of emerging from the 21st century as a United States rund by diverse free citizens.
With Bush and others of his $yndicate, if we emerge from the 21st century as a single nation we will resemble the Confederate States run by plantation owners and robber barons.
One thing not being discussed/reported: The "stove-piping" of raw intel through the WH to upper levels of decision making. Previous administrations always had FBI and CIA liaisons who had sifted through the raw intel, bringing in the information only after it was vetted and determined to be CREDIBLE. Cheney was thought to have initiated the practice of sifting through the raw intel, looking for gems to use against Hussein. The WH was looking at so much raw intel that when the CIA brought in a credible threat warning (Aug. 6, '01) that this Admin. didn't recognize the credibility, therefore didn't act on it, especially since that lunatic Richard Clarke was agreeing with the credibility!
dumass librual
Stovepiping was discussed a few months ago. And it was mainly ignored.
Now Bush even jokingly uses the term in press conferences.
Clearly you have selectively read and responded to a minor part of my posts about both Kerry and the Democrats.
Yeah I started ignoring you because your posts were too long.
If it's over three long paragraphs, you should get your own blog.
They're free, you know.
As for the Germans, most of them didn't think that was "bad shit" because they had a decade of the Nazis telling them their neighbors were the problem.
Monkey Sensei is right! A lot of the less coherent "holocaust scholarship" yabbers about how it is impossible to study history, how the Goy is irrational and always plotting as soon as his back is turned and shut up about the socioeconomic data you can't quantify hate and anti-Semitism is inherently different (and more important) than any other kind of hate and shut up stupid go you cannot understand no one can understand.
But you can study hate (if you're moral, you have to) it comes from somewhere (not just the racist formulae "being a Jew" or "being a Goy") and to stop it you have to know where.
That's why a really valuable anti-Holocaust movie would not (or would not just) concentrate on the Mel Passion-like pornographic "feeling what it was like in the camps" (impossible anyway), but on how the camps were possible.
And to that end, it would look a hell of a lot less like the perpetual-suffering-biopics and a hell of a lot more like Z or All the President's Men or a straight attack on the media and the the intellectuals who allowed the people (people who you understand are not "stupider" but who don't have the time to read a gazillion papers like Chomsky, who kind of have to depend on an "expert") to accept certain ideas. It would look like the Ted Rall cartoon on how media works (on various TVs and adverts and headlines: YES, YES, YES, yes, YES, YES, "Actually, no, it isn't", and then the guy finally says "Yes").
If HaShoah were happening right now we'd be hearing all about---Eva Braun's sexual piccadilloes. Positively immoral, that woman. (Her sexuality is of course her fault, by the way, or aren't you flappers liberated and modern enough to be responsible for things?)
You know how they screwed up in Afghanistan with the Tora Bora operation, and likely allowed bin Laden to escape?
I just realized they were probably so pre-occupied with invading Iraq, they were doing shit-ass planning for Afghanistan.
Mother fuckers! They are going to get us all killed if we don't get them out as soon as possible.
Disallusioned:
I like a comment that I heard not too long ago that Kerry is an "interim" measure...we have two choices now: Bush or Kerry.
Which one would you rather have appointing supreme court justices, or overseeing America's natural resources...
Kerry has talked about moving beyond an oil-based energy economy. I believe he does see that this is the future for America, and that we need leadership to bring that about, rather than focusing on stealing every other nations' nat'l resources.
However, I am also disgusted by Kerry's remarks about Chavez, when it's obvious to the entire world that another Exxon coup is in the future, if the past is any indication.
and the "muscular internationalism" is just a liberal way of saying that they will continue to support the sort of globalism that made Argentina such a mess, which, imo, has totally discredited the whole corporate colonialism bullshit.
but he and other dems are also saying that because they want to win, and they have to appeal to the people in this country who are so scared of the rest of the world that they think we have to constantly resort to bullets instead of diplomacy.
however, after the events of the last few years, when Kerry wins, I think many countries will be more interested in diplomacy because they see what a hell hole the Bush way has created in Iraq...in other words, maybe I'm optimistic, but I think that the rest of the world will be SO HAPPY that we got rid of Bush that we'll get an excellent opportunity to create some useful strategies to apply diplomatic pressure.
maybe I'm wrong.
but I know without a doubt that if Bush gets back in the White House he will invade more countries, will make the draft the only job in town, and will make our nation more vulnerable to collapse because his militarism plays right into Osama's hands in the same way that the mujahadeen bankrupted the Soviet empire...not to mention that the rest of the world will be so disgusted with us that they may start trade wars.
kelley b.
"Kerry as president offers us chance to influence the Process. Kerry wants to work for the common good and can be modulated if we are willing to work hard to change society. Unfortunately Kerry must live and work with a significant part of this nation that has become hypnotized by its own delusions of power and grandeur."
You can't be that naive, can you?
I can safely say I will NOT vote Bush.
I can not safely say I will vote.
When the choices both maintain the mainly the same policies, what does it matter?
None of these politicians represent me and my interests. Their privelege distances them from my needs, and the needs of the common american.
For far too long they have existed in a very isolated rarefied environment that few of us will ever see.
There should be a law that for two months every year every politician would have to live in the standard of the lowest class in their district. None of those nice bene's that none of us will ever get.
Then maybe they could start representing the people again, instead of the money that gets them in office.
disillusioned,
I don't waste my time reading crap at length, I know it when I see it.
So what to do now?
Kerry wasn't Tina's first choice, nor was he mine. But let's face it, Disillusioned, either Bush or Kerry will be President from 2005 to 2008. Call it the lesser of two evils if you wish, hold your nose while casting you vote if you must, but for humanity's sake vote against Bush.
None of these politicians represent me and my interests.
Me. Me. Me. My interests.
You're a selfish...
The world doesn't revolve around you.
alex
You fail to see that Afghanistan was just a test for Iraq. Sure it offered some benefits, pipeline, bases, opium.
But they could have removed Al Qeada WITHOUT invading Afghanistan.
That was the precursor test before Iraq.
To see how smoothly things went.
The Taliban were unloved, and very weak.
"Have you noticed on days when major Bush lies are revealed in the American media, Israel assasinates a Palestinian leader and that takes the lead headline in major media."
Or when damning books come out.
Clarke's book: BOOOM in Gaza.
Woodward's book: BOOOOOOOM in Gaza.
Wilson's book: ?
Why wag the dog when you can have others do it for you?
alex, great point.
I think that is the reason for Tommy Franks to be so pissed off for being tasked to draw up Iraq war plans.
Unless you are the best god damned psychic in the world, you can NOT prove that claim today.
So don't make it.
The only HONEST claim that can be made is he will be DIFFERENT ( on some issues) than Bush.
Disillusioned
I assume you're joking, right? Do you seriously contend that John Kerry is only a degree or two different than Bush? Are we talking about the same guys? Nah, you must be kidding. Sure had me going there for a while! Good one.
ou're a selfish...
The world doesn't revolve around you.
pie
So are you. Unless of course you are NOT voting for your perceived BEST interest.
Which is it? Are you voting for social conscience, representing the little man, or are you voting for what you see as the candidate who do the best to promote your interests?
Will you be wasting your vote by not representing your best interest?
still another reason to vote for Bush,
BLACK BUSH, that is!!!
Kaus is such a fucking hack I don't know where to begin.
I've offered a $5,000 prize to anyone who could refute my argument that Kaus is a hack and so far nobody has taken me up on it.
kei & yuri, it's what sells, unquestionably, but mostly the sheeple can be led to buy what's being sold.
How else do you explain Wal Mart?
Disillusioned, you live under a variable star. Global warming and cooling existed long before we started tearing up the turf. In the Mesozoic the Gulf of Mexico covered the Midwest and the Rockies and Appalachians were two separate subcontinents. A few hundred thousand years ago the sea levels were 300 feet lower, Alaska and Siberia were contiguous but under a mile of ice, as were Chicago, Detroit and New York.
The World, like human nature, dances to rhythms we do not now fully understand- but can describe.
I think that the Tora Bora moment, which Sy Hersh reported in the New Yorker long ago, with the order for our troops to stand down, Hersh noted, having to come from the highest levels of our govt, was done because they wanted to invade Iraq.
If they had gotten Osama, Americans would have done the "happy days are here again," moment and been ready to go back to their tvs and declare the "war on terror" basically over.
So BushCo had to maintain the fear and keep the population scared enough (remember all the alerts leading up to the invasion) in order to get their war.
disallusioned: there are many issues on which the dems and repubs disagree and I will make sure I vote and encourage everyone else to do so, too.
I agree there are many problems here...the two party system is a mess for so many reasons, and we need more proporationate representation across a spectrum...right now we have the religious nutcases controlling the fiscal conservatives...I bet they don't like it any more than I do...
but this election is crucial. we cannot afford four more years of bushwhacking.
I assume you're joking, right? Do you seriously contend that John Kerry is only a degree or two different than Bush? Are we talking about the same guys? Nah, you must be kidding. Sure had me going there for a while! Good one.
MisterX
Did he vote IWR? Does he support the present Bushco Israel policy?
Yes, they are only a degree or two apart.
Didn't he call for 40k new troops? Do you think he will be getting those without a draft?
Just because the candidate has a D for an affiliation doesn't mean they are the morally superior.
I can not safely say I will vote.
How does that keep either candidate whom you loathe from gaining power? How does that advance your political aims, whatever those are?
"Did I expect George Bush to f*** it up as badly as he did? I don't think anybody did." Neither Kerry nor any of the other candidates has called for an end to the bloody and illegal occupation; on the contrary, all of them have demanded more troops for Iraq. Kerry has called for another "40,000 active service troops."
Disillusioned, i think i agree with you about war resolution. but politics are politics and the repugs. stuck it to congress pretty hard. as that little dick scotty would say "you have to go back, go back to the time..." in other words, vote for my war or look unpatriotic and let the voters decide. an election year remember? in a principaled world i know that is poor excuse, but very little seems principled about politics. at anyrate if you don't win you can't do anything.
of course that was then and this is now. where are we, between a rock and a hard place. pull out watch the place go to unholy hell. stay in, well, don't need to say anything here. but bush has no clear plan, except to get that sovereignty thing accomplished so his buds can start scooping up the spoils.
i would also remind you that during the campaign kerry said if you think i would have had us at war right now don't vote for me. but i advise that you do vote for him. i don't know if he can fix this mess, but america as you know it is thru if this cabal of lying whack job bush boys get in again.
Will you be wasting your vote by not representing your best interest?
When will you realize that most of us here feel it IS in our best interest to vote for Kerry, against Bush.
What are you trying to do here? There are only two choices.
This country will vote for a centrist-sounding candidate.
Grow up. Kerry will absolutely be a better president. The fact that you refuse to admit that makes this discussion a waste of my time.
Have a nice evening, Salt Water.
but this election is crucial. we cannot afford four more years of bushwhacking.
fauxreal
Honestly, four more years would probably bring an investigation by Republicans of Bushco. Many of these real conservative Republicans have constituencies who despise Bush for being big government and upping the spending ante. They hate Patriot and all the intrusions. They are starting to see their elected politicians as part of the problem.
These good old boys want to keep feeding at the public trough. So when it comes to either supporting a wrongly directed Bush or losing their jobs.
Well, they are first and foremost self interested.
Of course that is only conjecture, or wishful thinking.
Trollshit,
by any other name,
still smells like trollshit.
Key line in the story:
"The book says Franks uttered a string of obscenities when the Pentagon told him to come up with an Iraq war plan in the midst of fighting another conflict."
I wonder how that conversation started:
"Uh hello.. Gen. Franks...you busy right now?..."
"I can not safely say I will vote."
If you won't do it for yourself, please consider doing it for the rest of the world. They are BEGGING for a change in leadership here.
I hope no one actually believes that Sharon doesn't talk to Bush before these assassinations... They just made a major agreement that might have saved Sharon's political career. Today's "hit" was no surprise for Bush; and neither was the last one.
Bush gave Sharon a big "thumbs up" on both assassinations. You wash my white yellow-spined back, and I'll wash your massively obese back. Wink wink. Nudge nudge.
Politics makes incredibly ugly bedfellows, doesn't it?
Key line in the story:
"The book says Franks uttered a string of obscenities when the Pentagon told him to come up with an Iraq war plan in the midst of fighting another conflict."
I wonder how that conversation started:
"Uh hello.. Gen. Franks...you busy right now?..."
Laura Flanders is reading from letters that the boy king and Sharon exchanged.
Will you be wasting your vote by not representing your best interest?
When will you realize that most of us here feel it IS in our best interest to vote for Kerry, against Bush.
pie
MOST, not ALL.
That has to be the saddest defense of a weak position since Bush's press conference.
See, it is people like you that make people like me question why I should vote for your candidate. The mindless defense and vapid attack, aren't winning you any brownie points.
Now if you would have created a cogent appealing argument for your candidate, something that illustrated his positives and contrasted them with Bush negatives, you may have changed my mind.
But no, you chose to play attack dog. Dumb, visceral attack dog howling " I'm right, I'm Right" all fang and drool.
Nothing of the intellect in that.
Nothing appealing.
Why do I want to be part of the Democrat Freeper crowd?
Charley - Amen.
Funny thing is - I get where Disillusioned is coming from.
In short what he's saying is, 'You're going to take what you're given, and you're going to keep on taking it.'
Reads about right to me. Them's the facts.
Change them if you want.
If you won't do it for yourself, please consider doing it for the rest of the world. They are BEGGING for a change in leadership here.
Petey Wheatstraw
Me too.
I want CHANGE.
I want LEADERSHIP.
I see same old same old.
I could easily vote for Kerry if he only apologized for his IWR. If he said he made a mistake and it would not happen again.
But he will not.
Other than Bush how many other people defend costly mistakes?
And refuse to apologize.
Reads about right to me. Them's the facts.
Change them if you want.
the hunter
First we have to get the car back from the thieves, THEN we can work on fixing it.
If you know what I mean.
'You're going to take what you're given, and you're going to keep on taking it.'
This is a traditional argument against voting that's always been well-regarded by some citizens.
Reads about right to me. Them's the facts.
Change them if you want.
How are you changing them?
Why do I want to be part of the Democrat Freeper crowd?
You don't. Stop wasting my time. Kerry will campaign and say what he has decided the voters want to hear.
He wants to win.
He will be a better president.
Bush has been a freaking disaster!
You don't want to be persuaded. Stop the ruse.
In short what he's saying is, 'You're going to take what you're given, and you're going to keep on taking it.'
Reads about right to me. Them's the facts.
Change them if you want.
the hunter
Yes.
I'm tired of everyone offering a better world.
I want the better world.
I'm tired of working for change, and being backstabbed.
I am god damned tired of both sides claiming they hold the moral high ground, when they reside in the sewer.
I want CHANGE.
I could easily vote for Kerry if he only apologized for his IWR. If he said he made a mistake and it would not happen again.
Wow. I misunderstood you earlier. I thought you wanted REAL change. You just want an apology.
OT, maybe, but the BBC ran a program recently about average Americans' opinions about Bush and Iraq. They interviewed several people who a)knew nothing and b) were quite proud of it.
I have no idea how representative these people are of the whole nation, but I suspect that there's a large chunk of 'likely voters' with zero information in their heads. This is someone's fault, and I'd put a lot of the guilt on the media. Even if these people were not representative of most Americans, that's what Europeans think Americans are like now.
Democracy without good media takes work, and the vast majority of people aren't going to work for it, until it's too late. It may already be too late, I don't know. I woke up only a few years ago, and I constantly feel discouraged by the total lethargy of people I try to talk politics with. There's really a strong impression that if they didn't "buy" this administration by voting for it; if indeed they did not vote at all, well, then they are somehow immune to all the effects. A sort of consumerist ideology taken to the extremes, and it doesn't work.
You don't want to be persuaded. Stop the ruse.
pie
Again you prove you are nothing but ignorant.
was it a chemical depency that killed your higher reasoning functions, or were you born stupid?
You illuminate the phrase " Dumb as a box of rocks".
Begone small weak minded one, you bore me as a small yapping dog will.
monica_nyc said:
"How are you changing them?"
Quite a number of ways. One of them is presenting a simple 'How to take your government back" plan. It's the first I've seen that can get the action we all desperately need with very little effort on everyone's part.
Don't ask for it, because I'll post it.
Disillusioned - What is the alternative? Elect Bush and hope that some of the Repugs will decide to hold Bush accountable? Have you lost your fucking mind? These people have waited for years to have this kind of power, and they have no intention of losing it. They'll do what it takes, and the party has been taken over by the extremists.
Which ought to be easy for you to recognize, since you are an extremist yourself.
Personally, I like sane people as president. I think Kerry is sane. He is also more liberal than Dean. He has a great environmental record. I think he's going to be a wonderful president. I also know that he knows how to deal with Congress. He has allies in Congress. On both sides of the aisle. He is our best hope, as a matter of fact, next to Edwards. Right now, another governor from outside would be hamstrung totally as president. We need someone with contacts, connections and insight into Congress to get things straightened out.
I did not mean next to Edwards as if I thought Edwards would be better. I don't
I want CHANGE.
I could easily vote for Kerry if he only apologized for his IWR. If he said he made a mistake and it would not happen again.
Wow. I misunderstood you earlier. I thought you wanted REAL change. You just want an apology.
monica_nyc
And you don't feel his IWR vote, which went against the majority of his party and the majority of the worlds people, was wrong?
You don't feel he needs to apologize to the families for allowing their sons and daughters to be put in harms way for no apparent reason?
In light of the fact that he is both a war vet and war protester, you don't think he of all people should have had more moral clarity and intestinal fortitude on this issue.
Yes, an apology would go a long way in helping me respect him.
Echidne - the thing is, a lot of people who don't know and don't care don't vote, either.
We need someone with contacts, connections and insight into Congress to get things straightened out.
Tena
Now explain how a Democrat president with a Republican congress will " Get things done"?
Why not list the specifics of what you expect him to acheive if elected?
US totally out of Iraq, even those bases we built?
Patriot revoked?
Taxing the rich and ending corporate welfare?
All your position is is Kerry isn't Bush.
While that is an important selling point, in the long run it is very weak.
"Sir, our progress towards bringing about the Rapture is proceeding quite swimmingly. Today's killing of Hamas' leader by Israel, as we suggested, is sure to spur more terror attacks which you can use in your campaign as evidence that you are fighting terror."
WRT Dilillusioned - Ok - It smells like trollshit and I apologize for feeding it - I should have known it wasn't housebroken.
They can be persuasive little buggers.
I see another youngster has come to relieve him/her-self in the sandbox.
So are you. Unless of course you are NOT voting for your perceived BEST interest.
Which is it? Are you voting for social conscience, representing the little man, or are you voting for what you see as the candidate who do the best to promote your interests?
Will you be wasting your vote by not representing your best interest?....
yes.
I'm tired of everyone offering a better world.
I want the better world.
I'm tired of working for change, and being backstabbed.
I am god damned tired of both sides claiming they hold the moral high ground, when they reside in the sewer....
Again you prove you are nothing but ignorant.
was it a chemical depency that killed your higher reasoning functions, or were you born stupid?
You illuminate the phrase " Dumb as a box of rocks".
Begone small weak minded one, you bore me as a small yapping dog will.
Once again, perfection or nothing. so many choices, so little time.
Please. As if life were a zero sum game and only "good" or "Bad" were the choices available. "Disillusioned," you are as Manichean as the President you assail. The revelation that people work for their perceived best interests is not a new one, a unique one, or particularly insightful. If that's the best you can do, be quiet. You embarass yourself.
As for working for change and getting nothing for it: get over yourself. You aren't nearly that important, and your struggle isn't nearly as essential as you think. You are mortal. Deal with it. One day you will die, and it may be the world won't even notice you were here. Sorr if that upsets your solipsism, but it's the truth.
And finally, cheap insults and theatrical name-calling does you no good at all. My apologies to the rest for lecturing, but I don't suffer pessimistic fools gladly. World not turning out the way you were promised in kindergarten?
Whatta surprise. When you have something constructive to add to the conversation, it might be worth hearing.
But stomping around like an unbalanced teenager merely reflects on your credibility, not the gality of those who respond to you.
Damned.
"gality" was "quality," until I hit the "OK" button.
Vote Kerry, then vote Ventura '08. 
And yeah, I know: "Don't feed the trolls."
But somebody's gotta try to teach 'em some manners....
And you don't feel his IWR vote, which went against the majority of his party and the majority of the worlds people, was wrong?
I absolutely know it was wrong.
You don't feel he needs to apologize to the families for allowing their sons and daughters to be put in harms way for no apparent reason?
No. Such an apology would mean little to nothing to me, from Kerry or anyone else who voted for the IRW or pushed through the great Iraq misadventure. And, by the way, I think the reasons for the invasion and occupation are many and changing all the time.
In light of the fact that he is both a war vet and war protester, you don't think he of all people should have had more moral clarity and intestinal fortitude on this issue.
No. He's a politician. I don't look for moral leadership from politicians. I look for something more general, like democratic governance -- which I don't see much of anywhere in sight.
Yes, an apology would go a long way in helping me respect him.
OK. You've made that clear, and I understand what you want and why you want it. I don't particularly respect Kerry or not, and that doesn't bother me.
The difference between the Democrats and the Republicans in this election is much more pronounced than it was four years ago because the choice now is between Corporatists [the Democrats] and all-but-full-on Fascists [the Republicans].
That's a distinction that matters. I don't usually look at preznitial elections as being especially meaningful when the infrastructure of democracy is crumbling and when neither party at the national level gives a particular fuck about poor people.
But this year the election matters to me because, although a Kerry administration cannot by itself restore what been lost of democracy, another boy king administration can destroy what's left of it.
I don't think a Kerry administration is as much a threat as is another four years of the regime. And for those poor and working people who are on the verge of falling into the abyss, a Kerry administration would be less likely to give them a shove. And for women who care about reproductive rights, Kerry would likely be better. For anyone who cares about the judiciary not being entirely rightwing, Kerry would likely be better.
Oh, and let me just mention: Perle, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Negroponte ... you know the list ...
Dear Disillusioned-- fine-- go ahead and vote for Bush or Nader. Don't vote for Kerry.
Just don't ever come here and fucking complain about anything Bush does if he's re-elected.
Now stop wasting our time.
D., you haven't got anything to offer except insults.
You refuse to acknowledge any facts that are presented. Every time someone provides an actual rebuttal to your *claims*, you ignore it.
How convenient.
You're so transparent. And boring.
OT, but speaking of Big Liars, newkular fraud and CPA appointeee, Dr. Khidir Hamza, has quietly left the employ of the Iraq Ministry of Science and Technology, seeking to spend more time with his dog.
http://tinyurl.com/2owuy
Sir Eel.
-
I voted for Kerry in the Primary. I read the story about Franken and Moore and others meeting with him when he was getting his clock cleaned by Dean in the Polls and them telling him he had to tell the public that he was lied to by Bush and that's why he supported the was resolution. That now he knows he was tricked like most of America.
Fine. But now he is supporting Bush's apocolyptic policies of the Palestinians and he wants more US troops in Iraq.
These are Bush's two most insane policies and Kerry seems to be agreeing with them.
Am I wrong? Can't Franken and Kucinich call Kerry and scream at him a whole bunch?
Iraq is Bush's mess and more US soldiers there abusing and killing angry Iraqi's isn't going to help. I almost feel giving the Neocons a little more rope so they can hang themselves for good.
Bluto from Delta House.
I would love nothing better than to chime in with a spirited defense of John Kerry, but I'm feeling just a tad pessimistic today.
I may be more disillusioned than "Disillusioned"!
404 Error, felix.
Thank you, Robert. This troll has been around here for a long time, and he's johnny-one-note.
He wants the country to be governed according to his world-view, and it's not possible.
I feel sorry for him. He doesn't have all the answers. I'm not sure he has any.
I know you guys already know about this:
Rantisi Assassinated
Well, damn if the Israeli's haven't hit the Trifecta now too. Place your bets in Armageddon Lotto now!
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pie D., you haven't got anything to offer except insults.
Disillusioned, you're a disgusting asshole.
You make my skin crawl.
pie | Email | Homepage | 04.17.04 - 6:46 pm | #
Get lost, clown.
pie | Email | Homepage | 04.17.04 - 6:48 pm | #
You're a fucking hypocrite, pie.
here ya go, Disallusioned-
in the year following 9-11, bush used the attack to attack unions.
he looted social security immediately after 9-11.
he and the repubs insisted on bailing out the insurance industry at 100% of their liability.
the dems, on the other hand, wanted to fund the bailout after the insurance cos were responsible for the first 20%.
the difference between those two positions equalled 8 billion dollars.
at the same time, Bush said he could not afford to extend unemployment insurance medical premiums for the many who had lost their jobs.
It would have cost that 8 billion.
Is that one enough of an example?
how about this one: bush refused to use his clout to break the patent on Cipro in the months following those attacks, even though Canada had done just that to be able to quickly and cost effectively create enough Cipro to protect its population.
Instead, to maxmize Bayer's profits, the Bushies let Americans remain unprotected from the threat of anthrax for an additional 17 months, AND the difference in cost between generically produced cipro and Bayer's was also 8 billion dollars.
You can google Gordon Lafer Dissent Magazine Fall 02 if you want some more information.
Bush used the war on terrorism to also declare a class war in this nation.
You are seriously lacking information if you think that democratic and republican positions on a host of issues are the same.
of course you have conservative dems, but they do not represent the party as a whole.
on the other hand, you have a group of republicans now in power who have worked for twenty years to gain control of all three branches of govt...and you see what has happened thus far.
they intend to extend this control for another twenty years and, as Norquist has stated, make govt so small they could drown it in a bathtub...which would seem to mean that all the people they draft to fight their wars w/o end will be like all those soldiers in San Diego whose families have to have food kitchens handing out canned goods in order to survive.
So don't vote if you don't want to..although it's pretty disgusting that you live in a democracy which relies on voters to survive.
But do not spout the bullshit that the parties are interchangeable, and don't lie to yourself that the repubs will hold Bush accountable for anything, because they won't.
"I could easily vote for Kerry if he only apologized for his IWR. If he said he made a mistake and it would not happen again."
Quit being a baby. It's time to grow up now and face reality. We have two choices here. We can elect the Chimp, which will only lead to MORE unprovoked and illegal invasions of foreign countries (see PNAC) and result in THOUSANDS of more deaths. Or we can elect Kerry, which will be seen as a complete REPUDIATION of the Bush doctrine and mark an end to the mad neocon dream of world domination through mass murder.
Those are the choices.
Don't tell me there's no difference between them.
"I'm tired of everyone offering a better world.
I want the better world.
I'm tired of working for change, and being backstabbed.
I am god damned tired of both sides claiming they hold the moral high ground, when they reside in the sewer."
Disillusioned, man you don't want much do you. we are talking about politics here. fact is come nov. 4 you are going to have what we have now, bad, very bad and likely to get worse, or you are going to have john kerry. wont be perfect, he'll make some mistakes. probably some big ones considering the mess he'll be left with.
look i'm not trying to persuade you, if you think there is no difference, if you think kerry would have rushed us, with his pants down around his ankles, to get into what could concievably turn into a world war, then don't vote. in 25 years of eligibility i never have, as i told petey last nite i never wanted to encourage the bastards. but as petey said i'm going to be there this year and i am going to pull that lever HARD for kerry. oh yea, i think kerry tho i am sure he lies the way all politicians do has more integrity in his pinkies nail than bush has, well no their is no integrity about bush.
Tena, Praise God.
kidding, just kidding.
D., you're a regular.
You've changed your name, but you're still the same guy.
I've been here too long and watched you perform your little act.
Your modus operandi never changes, nor does your tune.
I'd apologize for my insults, but why should I? I've tried to be sympathetic in the past, but you give no quarter.
I'm done with you.
You do not have the answer. Nor do I.
But I will vote for Kerry in November. Gladly.
disillusioned,
you miss the fact that not casting a vote doesn't mean you're not voting. Not casting a vote is approving of the status quo. It's not simply about Bush or Kerry. It's about the entire administration that is installed as a result of the election. Of course, we don't get to vote for them. The candidate I would have gladly voted FOR didn't make it through the primary but I sure as hell wouldn't vote for Bush and his administration. I strongly believe Bush's policies have taken this country in a dangerous direction. I don't happen to think Kerry was the best Democratic candidate but he got most of the primary votes so that's who I've got. I'm voting to change the current administration. It's not up to me or anyone else for that matter to give you reasons to vote for Kerry. Make up your own mind based on what is important to you.
You're a fucking hypocrite, pie.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 04.17.04 - 7:59 pm
So much for raising the level of discourse.
Although one is forced to wonder: can you be insulted, or chagrined, or chastised, by a completely nameless person?
Oh, well...metaphysics is not my strong suit today.
On the other hand, and back on topic, Frnak Rich has an interesting analysis of Iraq through the lens of "Lawrence of Arabia." As he says:
To revisit "Lawrence" and the history it dramatizes in embryo is to feel not only déjà vu but also a roaring anger at the American arrogance and ignorance that has led to the current nightmare. Condoleezza Rice's use of the word "historical" to describe the Aug. 6, 2001, presidential briefing on Osama bin Laden was not the only tipoff to her limited understanding of history. In the opening filibuster of her testimony, she invoked the Lusitania, Hitler's rise and Pearl Harbor as analogues of 9/11 — an asymmetrical comparison that blurs the distinctions between nations' acts of war and the stateless conspiracies of modern terrorists. Apparently the administration's understanding of British colonial history in the Middle East is no sharper. Though it might have been impossible to prevent the 9/11 attacks, it would have been possible to avoid what's happening in Iraq now had anyone heeded the past.
If Bush had said it was about Saddam, he would've been called a fool. If you are going to put Americans at risk, you should be able to keep your possible war plans a secret. Bush did so. Bush is a good guy. He doesn't follow the polls. I think Bush is the Messiah, but I'm not going to bother you with my religious life. gotto read that on my blog if it interests you.
"But I will vote for Kerry in November. Gladly."
A-fucking-men.
From AP
Major developments Saturday in Iraq:
--Marines fought pitched battles against about 150 gunmen in Qaim, near the Syrian border, the city police chief said. Six Marines and scores of insurgents were killed in the 14-hour battle, an embedded journalist from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported. A U.S. military spokesman could not confirm the report.
Damn and blast! "Frnak Rich?" Who writes this stuff?
That's it. The wife and Golden Child are at a Girl Scout campout, so I'm off to waste an evening on cable TV.
"He doesn't follow the polls."
HAHAHAHA! Only because the polls show that voters like it when a politician says he doesn't follow the polls.
Take your infantile bullshit and stick it straight up your ass, Rick.
"Laura Flanders is reading from letters that the boy king and Sharon exchanged."
Ha! we all know that Bush doesn't read...so, he must have had Dick reading them while Bush sucked his...thumb.
You know...
I can't help feeling that Woodward will tilt this book a bit anti-Bush just because so many anti-Bush books are burning up the bestseller charts these days.
He's enough of a whore to write what will get him the most sales.
pie, we've had many troll dissections here before, but like I said, I've been away for awhile, and it is just amazing to watch their tenacity and the desire of many (like Disillusioned) to drive a wedge of despair into the minds of those who would listen to them.
Robert got it right (again). People like this troll use a very similar black-and-white or straw man type of argument to persuade. People who really believe this kind of silliness fall into Doublethink patterns very, very easily.
On the other hand, some of the points Disillusioned- or the Naderites- note are valid.
Certainly Bill Clinton was an example of a politician with some flaws- from a liberal progressive viewpoint. Not that the media or the republicans ever critiqued him on his real shortcomings or gave him anything like intelligent feedback. Far from it- usually the media cheered the republican initiatives like business deregulation Clinton allowed to pass on his watch.
Still, Clinton did mean well and did a world of good for America. Likewise Kerry will do a world of good for his country. Whatever his real flaws might turn out to be, it is doubtful you'll see them carefully analyzed by his political opponents.
"Kermit the Lying General nearly fainted when he heard the news..."
RF
Either that or the brain slug was sucking a little too hard, or maybe he had a little too much Kool-Aid.
Heh
I recommend everyone read Play-Doh!'s Republic.
In that book he talks about what a great idea it is to lie to citizens.
He also predicts the creation of Fox News as crazy shit being projected on cave walls and being interpreted as the ideal.
We are just about to be nuked. The reality screams like 100,000 crows!
On a talking heads show tonight ("Inside
Washington"), Evan Thomas of Newsweek said he had already read Woodward's book. Two points he made: 1) Tenet may have to go, because he had told Bush the WMD evidence was "slam dunk". 2) Thomas was struck by the fact that Bush never had a war cabinet meeting to discuss in depth the pros and cons of war. Bush told Woodward he didn't have to, because he knew what they all thought. Thomas said this could be damaging to Bush.
So, go with those talking points, guys, because these look like they will stick.
When I heard awhile back that Berlusconi visited Crawford I wished I knew where to place all my money on betting Murdoch was there also. Soon after, they divided up the airwaves over Europe . . . very little press.
kelley b., I'm beginning to think that this guy is just a repug troll that's trying to throw a monkey wrench into the works.
No one in his right mind could look at the past three-plus years and believe that Kerry wouldn't be an incredibly better choice.
Even a Naderite should be more than appalled at georgie's performance and want change.
This guy's either a wacko or a repug.
We're not going to be change from the top down.
Rather, we're not going to get change from the top down.
"I recommend everyone read Play-Doh!'s Republic."
Heh.
But you're right: Plato was a fuckin' fascist. Motherfuckin' Greeks fuckin' INVENT democracy and what does their motherfuckin' star pupil want? A "philosopher king"! Whatta fuckhead!
Too bad irony hadn't been invented yet, cuz that shit would've been FUNNY AS ALL FUCK!
"Concur 100%. The fact that we have real WMD is a great responsibility. Our current spate of irresponsible acts combined with our immense power to destroy is why most of the world thinks we're the greatest threat to peace and security in the world."
NTodd
I also concur. Something that bothers me too is the attitude that because we're the strongest military power in the world we can do whatever we like.
Iraq and 9/11 have already shown the world that we can get a bloody nose. There is no way that we could win if we ended up with everyone against us. Our so called coalition would evaporate, I think even England would desert us. Our only Ally would most likely be Israel (now that's really scary).
And last but probably most important, we're not the only country with Nukes. Don't you think the wiser heads around the world who are watching the situation here with alarm, also have contingency plans?
And because we are the granddaddy of WMD powers, don't you think they might use those contingency plans?
pie, I agree. I think it's the Major Knecht come back again.
I agree. I think it's the Major Knecht come back again.
cgreen, and that's the way he will be treated from now on.
Notice that he never provides any links to his long, boring posts.
Keep that in mind in the future.
"Who's your favorite philosopher?"
"Jesus."
King of Kings.
Bush tells Woodward (according to newspaper this morning):
"I really believe in war with Iraq. I am willing to bet my presidency over this."
Ummmm...what about the guys getting their asses shot off? You think they were willing for you to place that bet?
GWB, it's almost time to pay off your little wager. Shouldn't of taken Bill ("Double Downs Syndrome's) Bennet's advice on gambling.
Pssst...pssst!
Deep inside washington evan licks condi's bush like he's told.
On issue of whether Kerry should be hammering just now, I have noticed the rightwingers in my family have been flinging out all sorts of spew lately which I take as a good sign of their desperation. The chaplain in Iraq fake email, the Kerry is not a real Catholic thing, the Kerry is too rich thing (whuh?) and loathsome piece today on evolution of conservatives/liberals from an uncle. Conservatives drink domestic beer and look after their wimmin, liberals drink wine from France.
I doubt Bush is going to invade any other countries. They all know we can't afford to. We're bankrupt as it is. The "Let's you and him fight" average American is willing to have a few thousand dead American soldiers as long as its not their child. A draft will be needed and foreign states will have to buy our debt in spite of our inability to pay.
As for arguing with the Freeper trolls, its a waste. If Bush went on TV and said that he and and Cheney knew 9/11 was going to happen and let it happen so they had an excuse to invade Iraq the Freepers would still support him. Their justification would be 9/11 was needed as a wake up call to Americans about the dangers of terrorism.
It may happen yet!
Someone ought to start a thread at the Freeper site along that line and see how many of the Neandertals jump on board.
I thought they were troll vivisections, not dissections. Course, it's hard to tell when they are sometimes braindead and at other times possessed by the 3rd-rate Reich demons.
Woodward figured he shot his wad as an apologists for the powers that be. "Shoot, they won't buy, if they thing it is just another one of my press release transcriptions. Time to be the "edgey" one again."
His first draft was a complete whitewash of BushCo. Then he told his editor, "Whatever I wrote, go back and change it to the opposite. Like that Seinfeld episode where George does the opposite."
Woodward is even now gleefully clicking his mouse at Amazon to see how his book is doing.
And one more thing, forget "what will we tell the children?", what will our children tell us in twenty years?
Remember during the Sixties when German youth started confronting the older generation?
Let's see, mark you calenders: 2016.
We, as a generation, will not be forgiven.
I dunno. My faith in woodward remains as strong as in Kerry for turning that boat to shore and shooting the shooter in Nam.
True story. I sat behind George W Bush in the 3rd grade, and he constantly doodled maps of the Mid East, with tanks and planes attacking Iraq. He asked me to come up with a plan to attack Iraq, but not to tell anybody. I have kept that secret for 49 years. I think he used my plan and I am entitled to royalties, or something.
Dinosaur, you were in special class with georgie?
Do tell.
"
I can't help feeling that Woodward will tilt this book a bit anti-Bush just because so many anti-Bush books are burning up the bestseller charts these days.
He's enough of a whore to write what will get him the most sales.
LJ"
That's my guess too.
Cheney_usa; who is your favorite philosopher? Jesus, King of Kings.. What WMD's would Jesus use?
where the hell is John Kerry ? why hasn't Kerry raise this issue yet ?
Woodward is still a whore!
But you're right: Plato was a fuckin' fascist. Motherfuckin' Greeks fuckin' INVENT democracy and what does their motherfuckin' star pupil want? A "philosopher king"! Whatta fuckhead!
Petey i always thought, well, what you say above about the republic. but right now a philosopher king would sure beat the hell out of the IDIOT KING!
damn, there is too much to respond to with you guys. all bright, insightful, articulate, and humorous, i'm going over to LGF, where i can sit and read in horrified silence.
dave. we gotta get away from the stock blue and red.
i suggest red and black. good ol' nazi colors. make the sheeple READ the bumperstickers.
disliiusioned sez: Sure all politicians sell the illusion of populism. But how many act FOR the populace? ... "CARLIN: And the liberals are just as bad on this issue as the conservatives. [applause]..."
Wrong. And stupid too, as in "I can't add and subtract" stupid.
http://stats.bls.gov/cps/prev_yrs.htm
Annual average unemployment rate, civilian labor force 16 years and over (percent)
1988 5.5
1989 5.3
1990 5.6
1991 6.8
1992 7.5
1993 6.9
1994 6.1
1995 5.6
1996 5.4
1997 4.9
1998 4.5
1999 4.2
2000 4.0
2001 4.7
2002 5.8
2003 6.0
I didn't inherit a fortune. I work for a living. This matters to me.
Know what "Disillusioned" reminds me of? A guy who would like to help someone who's lying on the street with a knife in his back, but won't because he'd get his fancy new shoes bloody.
Because that's what all this prattling about "ME and MY interests" boils down to, isn't it? After a point, all this exaggerated concern with "voting my conscience" (you'll just have to take his word for it that he's got one) is the sheerest vanity...it's egotism teetering on the brink of solipcism.
That's assuming "Disillusioned" is just a politically naive egotist, rather than the Rovian divide-and-conquer goon that he could just as plausibly be. Anyone who claims that Bush and Kerry are morally equivalent is either insincere or ineducable.
I guess it's also possible that "Disillusioned" is one of those RCP folks that figure making the political situation worse in the short term will bring about the Revolution of the Proletariat...acting for all the world like fundamentalists who think they can force the Rapture by stirring up trouble in the Middle East.
I once knew an RCP member who went out of his way to eat every meal at McDonald's because "the sooner the resources are used up, the sooner the workers will rise up."
Could it be that we have been lulled by the most laughable trolls to ignore the more subtle? There have been a few different people posting about Bush's inevitability, either because Kerry is not Noam Chomsky or because "everyone supports him"...
Kei & Yuri: I think so. And it's a pretty clever way to do things. There are many ways of breeding apathy, but trying to make people feel like they'd get their hands dirty if they participated in a flawed system is a good one to aim at the 18-25 demographic, many of whom may never have voted before. Which is why at some point, we have to make it clear that this is a completely self-absorbed stance.
This is a tearjerking thing, someone posted it improperly and their URL was not actionable, here's a tinyed one, and here's an excerpt:
Earlier in the day, Tom Mauser, whose son, Daniel, was killed with an assault weapon in the Columbine High School killings five years ago, tried to enter the convention hall where the NRA was meeting, seeking to urge Cheney to support extending the assault weapons ban.
Mauser was turned away by a security guard as several conventioneers applauded. A couple of conventioneers yelled "Get a life" and "Vote for Bush."
Mauser, who marched three blocks to the convention hall literally in his son's shoes, said before the march that continuing the ban would be common sense.
Which reminds me: I sometimes get in arguments with Nader people who say "I refuse to choose the lesser of two evils!"
That always cracks me up...this "principled" refusal to do what morally sane people MUST do. I usually respond by saying, "So if someone says to me 'Your money or your life,' I guess I should just keep my mouth shut, and refuse to lower myself by choosing between two unsavory options? Sheesh.
And of course, since Nader is not a perfect being, the choice is actually between the lesser of THREE evils...that's supposed to be an improvement? And since a vote for Nader equals a vote for Bush...you end up choosing the GREATER of two evils, while patting yourself on the back for sticking to principles.
I know that this kind of incoherent, morally deranged thinking exists in the body politic, but I'll bet Karl Rove would be very happy to see it spread. And blogs are a great way to do it. I used to see some "voting only encourages them" shills on Indymedia that I'd SWEAR were on the RNC payroll.
Bear in mind that Nader himself said at a South Carolina speech that if you want Nader but fear Bush, vote Kerry. Anyone who yabbers about a Nader presidency (as opposed to the strengthening of McAuliffe-threatening second parties) is probably DLC.
By DLC we meant, as it actually is anyway, GOP.
A couple of conventioneers yelled "Get a life" and "Vote for Bush."
The ultimate argument settler.
Did anyone ever see this article in the "New York Times" a couple of years ago, about how fascist design principles were making a big comeback? Everything from SUVs to toasters had to be black and gleaming and menacing, so that a bunch of chickenshit white guys with fragile egos and sexual/empathic dysfunctions could feel threatening instead of threatened.
I guess the worst of these guys have always gravitated to the NRA.
Bear in mind that Nader himself said at a South Carolina speech that if you want Nader but fear Bush, vote Kerry.
Absolutely true. But the word doesn't seem to have trickled down to some of his minions out here in California! (Or maybe they just don't fear Bush? Jeez, anyone that numb could probably have a root canal without anesthetic.)
To 56K: Rupert Murdoch and Australian Prime Minister John Howard met secretly in New York on the night September 10, 2001 (well, it was supposed to be a secret but an Aussie journalist found out about it and wrote it up).
The next morning Howard had travelled to Washington just in time for the Pentagon attack.
Since then Howard (with the enthusiastic support of Murdoch's press outlets here in Australia) has been one of the chief promoters of the Iraq war, volunteering Australia to be one of only three Coalition members involved in the shooting. So keen was he to get into battle, that Aussie Special Forces (SAS) went in to North western Iraq thirty-six hours before the deadline was up. That is: just 12 hours after Bush declared war was to begin in two days.
Little known fact: Fox, Murdoch's TV empire in America was, until just two weeks ago, a subsidiary of News Ltd, an Australian publicly listed company, based in the state of South Australia.
A couple of conventioneers yelled "Get a life" and "Vote for Bush."
Sheesh, Kei & Yuri, I checked out your link and I'm completely poleaxed by the photo that accompanies it. Do you see how those mendacious fucks oogle that flintlock?! Jesus Chrysler, the only time I have that kind of lustful expression on my face is when I'm, well, oogling some human female cuties, not a MOTHERFUCKING FIREARM! Wow. There's some kind of lesson in there somewhere.
White Gun Enthusiast: ah dn't needs me twelve inches of night-hued Nubian lust, ah gots my K-Mart Ruger...
...loaded with Viagra Brand bullets. NOW ON SALE AT MALL WART!
Them guys are the ones who need a life, if you ask me.
Brownshirts in action:
Jamie Gorelick, a member of the commission investigating the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, said Saturday that she received death threats this week after a number of conservatives alleged that her former work in the Justice Department may have contributed to failures leading to the attacks.
In the mid-1990s, Gorelick served as deputy attorney general of the United States. During that time, she wrote a memorandum establishing distinctions between intelligence that could be used for law-enforcement purposes and intelligence that could be used for national security purposes.
That separation was originally required as a safeguard against abuse of citizens' rights by government investigative agencies. But passage of the Patriot Act in the wake of the attacks eliminated the requirement.
The so-called "wall" governing intelligence uses has been a key subject at hearings of the commission. It has been blamed for being a main obstacle to better sharing of information in connection with the September 11 attacks.
"I can confirm that I've received threats at my office and my home," she told CNN on Saturday. "I did get a bomb threat to my home."
She added, "I have gotten a lot of very vile e-mails. The bomb threat was by phone."
ABC News first reported the story Saturday.
The threats were "scary," she said, but added that she was "not intimidated enough to resign from the commission."
A law enforcement source told CNN that the FBI is investigating the threats.
The existence of the memo, disclosed Wednesday by Attorney General John Ashcroft in his testimony before the commission, led House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jim Sensenbrenner to call for her resignation earlier this week.
"Gorelick has an inherent conflict of interest as the author of this memo and as a government official at the center of the events in questions," Sensenbrenner said in a written statement.
But Gorelick said she planned to continue her current duties.
"This is not a basis for resignation," she said, noting that Ashcroft's own deputy ratified the memorandum in August 2001.
If I were looking for the sort of moronic brownshirt fucks that would make these threats, I'd start here.
If I were looking for the sort of moronic brownshirt fucks that would make these threats, I'd start here.
dave
dave: Please warn us that link offered might take us to places we'd rather not step foot in. Hmmmm... NSFWITATYOC?
NSF Where I'd Take A Ten Year Old Child!
lemme check... YEP, LGF is NSFWITATYOC.
Hilter's youth!
he lied to us for our own good.
Presidents should always lie when it serves the national interest. Except about blow jobs. That's impeachable.
Rupert Murdoch and Australian Prime Minister John Howard met secretly in New York on the night September 10, 2001 (well, it was supposed to be a secret but an Aussie journalist found out about it and wrote it up).
This is Murdoch's modus operandi everywhere in the world - pimping his media empire to right-wing governments in exchange for regulatory favors.
He essentially runs a privatized state media service - toadying Pravda-style coverage without the credibility problems of government ownership.
56k said it at the beginning:
"If you ask me Booby's book is a very sophisticated form of damage control. Mostly for Powell, but also for Bush."
I think that's the most accurate view of the Woodward book, regardless of the intervening theories. IMO, blah, blah, blah.
Given the damage of Bush at War, Woodard is, nearly by definition since he's a player, damage control.
It's not hard to put the problem in Woodward-friendly terms: his work is motivated by power and ideology, not truth. Let's take him by his word.
"Going into this period, I was praying for strength to do the Lord's will. ... I'm surely not going to justify war based upon God. Understand that. Nevertheless, in my case, I pray that I be as good a messenger of His will as possible. And then, of course, I pray for personal strength and for forgiveness." GW DUmBass
al haig, on fox, about bob: "hes a master at sucking on the sewer pipe of washington"
The Beltway Boobs: Mort and Fred, who is the bigger idiot? Fred is definitely the bigger blowhard.
"Jesus save us" and when the music is over, turn out the lights.
Hey aussie bob, stop with all those conveeenience theories, okay?
everyone knows that bush is a moral man and wouldn't commit a felony, like lying to Congress, to commit a war crime, too.
I vote that we appoint President Bush as the new spiritual leader of Hamas.
Americans Deserve Bush - 2004
just experimentngo here there librul,but good
Of course, the next lie is the former Governor's withdraw deadline. No way on God's green earth that we can possibly pull out so soon...
Bush loses either way, either he will be a proved liar or he will create a disaster unparalleled in U.S. history!
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