I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Must..resist...
Is our leaders learning yet?
If you haven't been reading Juan Cole's blog, you're missing some very good information.
the seagull managment is in charge
make a bunch of noise
shit on everything
leave /fubar
If y'all haven't read the Barry Siegel piece in the LA Times about how the accidental crash of a B-29 Bomber in 1953 set the stage for the government to use national security as a justification for secrecy, you should go read it now. It's huge, and it hasn't received much play...
Part One is here.
Part Two is here.
The story is imporant because it reveals that the case that is used to justify government secrecy, including much of the PATRIOT Act, is based on a complete lie. That isn't liberal spin, it's in the declassified evidence from the B-29 crash.
Cheers!
Just a thought about the religion stuff that was being discussed earlier...
If you think living with Christians is bad... WAIT TILL YOU HAVE TO LIVE WITH MUSLIMS.... I've lived with Muslims.... as an atheist, I'm lucky to have gotten out alive...
But wetlands are good. Oh, so good. Together we will build wetlands better than new. Look at all the pretty wetlands. I am the environmental king! People?!? Helllooooo!?!?
Josh Marshall with more about why it's the oil, stupid. Kinda helps explain the insistence on secrecy around Cheney's Energy Task Force: plans to control Iraq oil fields.
I'm already wondering how we'll tell our children we let this happen...
i wonder who Kerry's VP will be...
"We are paying 8 million a year for the privilege of living in an ungrateful volcano."
--Winston Churchill, 1922
http://www.defencejournal.com/20.../bear-
eagle.htm
"Meanwhile, Iraq looks more and more as though it will be costing us the high-end estimate of $20 billion a year, for which the Iraqis have yet to appear noticeably grateful."
--Molly Ivins, May 25, 2003
http://www.dfw.com/mld/starteleg.../5937476.htm?
1c
"A $4 billion-a-month war"
--MSNBC, April 24, 2004
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3072938/
So, we're gonna jettison the Provisional Council, we're gonna pull the rug out from under Chalabi, we're gonna turn Iraq over to whomever come June 30th, we're gonna send in big bad Negroponte to run our show from inside the embassy bunker, and W is holed up for the weekend at Camp David to decide whether or not to level Fallujah. And we're still encircling Al-Sadr and contemplating leveling Najaf.
This, my friends, is madness. And there's gonna be lots more.
And will the mass media so much as peep? No on your life. Just send in more cannon fodder, wave the flag, and move on to the latest missing coed.
What's left to do but vomit?
A follow up on my post a couple of posts back...
I've faced multiple situations where middle-class, educated, booze-drinking, professionally-employed muslims were on the verge of killing me for being an atheist...
Old Hat stay thew fuck out of anything resembling a uniform. Don't get us wrong, we'll send socks, undergarments, chocolate, beef jerky and tobacco if you go, but please, don't consider this insanity. This is like allowing an unreasonable thought to encyst itself in your head and become "reasonable" by seniority (the chief American approach to history).
i wonder who Kerry's VP will be...
Old Hat - I've gotta throw in with kei & yuri here - I flat can't stand the thought of you joining.
NADER FOR VP...
Why can't Nader be VP?? That should get his 5% votes to Kerry...
Any thoughts??
Laura Flanders on now....
Question: what's going to be the political impact of Pat Tillman's death?
Will it finally get through to the mesmerized couch potatoes that soldiers are dying every day, for a reason yet to be explained?
(Over 100 this month alone! Congratulations to Wolfie, Rummy, and Junior on the deadliest month ever!)
Or will it harden Bush's base yet further? We've really gotta rally round the Leader if NFL stars are dying!
Tena, k&y, thanks. I really honestly value your opinions, like everyone in these threads.
Gawd, this is all such a mess. We're screwed any way you slice it.
Fuck. It's so sad.
On Kerry's VP (a choice which matter only for the media play it gets) I personally vote for Sila Calderon Governor of Puerto Rico. She's a real liberal, female, hispanic all base groups Kerry will need in November. Also it would give the democrats a chance to make Puerto Rican statehood a real issue for the campain. She isn't a statehood advocate but it would still be a good opening salvo with enough wiggle room to bail if things get too hot.
And if worse comes to worse, impeachment insurance. If the rightwing blowhards try to do to Kerry what they did to Clinton he can just threaten to resign. And give us our first female president.
On Kerry's VP (a choice which matter only for the media play it gets) I personally vote for Sila Calderon Governor of Puerto Rico. She's a real liberal, female, hispanic all base groups Kerry will need in November. Also it would give the democrats a chance to make Puerto Rican statehood a real issue for the campain. She isn't a statehood advocate but it would still be a good opening salvo with enough wiggle room to bail if things get too hot.
And if worse comes to worse, impeachment insurance. If the rightwing blowhards try to do to Kerry what they did to Clinton he can just threaten to resign. And give us our first female president.
Old Hat - it's tragic, and once in awhile I've thought that maybe I should do something - try to join some group doing aid work there or something. Thing is, as an American I would likely cause more problems than not, maybe as a target. And to be honest, the thought of going there now scares the shit out of me. So the best I think I can do at the moment is to support the groups from other countries who are working there. Doctors without Borders is there, and many others. I send them a little money and hope it helps.
NADER FOR VP...
Why can't Nader be VP?? That should get his 5% votes to Kerry...
Any thoughts??
Those things by the way are the things to send. The underwear bit is not naughtiness, it's because of the laundry/perpetual-surface-of-the-damn-sun-sweating situation, although maybe "inspirational" gifts would be appreciated too, we don't know. (Except in summer,) the chocolate melts in the day and re-congeals later, so it does all right if you open it in the right hour. Actually we tried to send beef jerky a while ago and were told that all meat had been forbidden because the mullahs had gone paranoid about pork.
Old Hat,
I've read your contributions here with interest over the past few months. You're young, you're bright, you're concerned. There are so many things that you can, and will do for your country over the next few decades. Getting maimed or killed in order to delay the awful consequences (for both your country and poor Iraq)of W's brief strut across the world stage is not one of them. Work to change the system that makes W and his vile ilk possible.
The Bush thing is what worries me. If Kerry is elected, I'll have far fewer reservations.
I've got to go take a walk and think about this.
Thank you for hearing me out.
http://fakeplasticnews.blogspot.com
My new blog
Long live Atrios!
P.S. Atrios, what do you think about the Eagles selection in the 1st Rd? It was probably a good idea, but I hate seeing them draft an Offense lineman in the 1st rd, especially trading up and getting rid of their #2.
Why are all the suggested veeps so damn stupid? Zinni, etc are career Republicans who openly said they would not even vote Democrat. Nader is despised on a nearly racist level by the Rethug DLC who made Bush possible. It's not an issue for Nader (who would probably sputter something about "but I need to establish third party viability") but for Nader-hating DLC disciples. This just isn't something Kerry would do. Suggestions for veep that aren't moronic, please?
Present for Woot. Thanks for all the diversions.
How many is too many?
So I was looking at the lunaville.org war casualty site.
It's pretty much inevitable that there will be more US soldiers killed in Iraq in April 2004 than there were in the March 20-April 9 period of 2003. That is, the time before the much-touted fall of Baghdad.
Mission Accomplished!
Mr. Old Hat, I like the previous poster have read and enjoyed many of your thoughtful and witty posts here for a long time. Having said that, I am not trying to give you any advice as you are more than capable of making decisions on your own. I would like to ask you one question.
Do you really genuinely believe that Bush's reasons and true interests in Iraq that you potentially would be fighting and risking your life for are the same as the reasons I think you feel the need to go to Iraq for? I know my answer to that, curious as to what yours is.
We keep meaning to link this. It's an excellent bit on censorship.
Old Hat: WTF - did I miss something from a previous thread?
Seriously, though. I did 20 years, and became more liberal as time passed. (Or maybe just more conscious). It's hard to be a liberal within the services. Being an out-spoken liberal is probably harder.
Joining for the purpose of trying to change it from the inside... That's not a great idea; it usually ends poorly with someone in front of a court-martial (the oath including "no mental reservation, etc, etc,").
After serving during Bush I's reign and seeing 3 wars in 4 years, I recommend that you at least wait to ensure Bush II is not reelected before you join.
I think Kerry picks Clark... Will make Cheney look like the ultimate Chickenhawk he is during the debate, and he helps out with the military vote.
Old Hat,
You want to really help? Volunteer for doctors without borders, or any similar NGO. The military will gladly take your warm body, but you will likely not do anything worthwile (by way of odds that is). Disclosure, I got to babysit a missile warning console for the commander of NORAD, who rarely bothered to actually show up, and when he did the brass was more concerned about the carpet being vacuumed and the TVs being tuned to CNN and not ESPN.
Even during the Gulf War... I could tell you some intriguing stuff about the South West Asia theater after the first Gulf War ended ... but I can't.
Can someone tell me how/who confirms Negraponte for his Iraq gig? Is it the same way they confirm judicial nominee's, will they have a panel and interview him first or what?? I hear the Dems don't plan on opposing at this point.
I want to send letters but I'm not sure who best to send them to.
[listening to Laura Flanders] Ouch is right.
Oliver-
Thanks for tip on the LA Times articles. Great story and reporting.
seagull management: now THAT is some funny shit. Nice, apeman.
Old Hat: You mentioned on a previous thread something about a "strange experience with someone returning from Iraq that made you rethink everything"... if it's not too personal, what happened? I have friends who have been there and done that for the USMC and if there's anything I can do to hear you out, lemme know. I've always enjoyed your comments and would only hope for the best for you.
"Seagull management" is the most brilliant thing we've come across in a while. It spanks Weiner's mother (but then, who hasn't?), and the light of its countenance is as the sun.
F*c* all you d*ke *it**es!
*=blue curtain
Laura Flanders vs Grover Norquist this next hour!
too much blog, anxiety +4. what the hell can you do? things are really f'd up, and it didn't have to be this way. checkn' out go be dumb blind american for awhile watch CNN or sumthn'
If Rhoades out-ruded Nader, Flanders should stand over Norquist, stepping on his solar plexis, with his schmendrick in her hand, peeing into his mouth and screaming triumphantly.
"We are paying 8 million a year for the privilege of living in an ungrateful volcano."
--Winston Churchill, 1922
http://www.defencejournal.com/20.../bear-
eagle.htm
"Meanwhile, Iraq looks more and more as though it will be costing us the high-end estimate of $20 billion a year, for which the Iraqis have yet to appear noticeably grateful."
--Molly Ivins, May 25, 2003
http://www.dfw.com/mld/starteleg.../5937476.htm?
1c
"A $4 billion-a-month war"
--MSNBC, April 24, 2004
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3072938/
Flanders should stand over Norquist, stepping on his solar plexis, with his schmendrick in her hand, peeing into his mouth and screaming triumphantly.
kei & yuri
What they said.
I can't imagine anyone attuned to this blog would go enlist in Bush's imperialist legions. But if any of you do go, do me a favor and leave off the BS about how you're fighting for our freedom. You have none of my support. If you get your ass killed, it will be good training for you.
THe Isrealli's are considering taking out Arafat.I believe that he cabal has put a hold on the hit order.THey need a distration when the next negative story hits the air and this is just the ticket.Just wait untill Wilson's book or some such hits the air,then we will see Arafat taken out.
Mark my words.
Old Hat,
Are you ready to kill children and women? Most people that die in war are children followed by women.
That may not ne the case in Afghanistan but it certainly is in Iraq. Falluja may turn out to be like the Warsaw uprising or Stalingrad. Look it up. (There were actually two uprisings in Warsaw).
Americans volunteer for war because they are one of the few people that have no idea what war's like.
Melanie has posted a response to Atrios's post about religion.
Posted in the last thread, but reposted here:
The Catholic Church is universally pro-life, and that means anti-abortion as well as anti-death penalty. Are the conservative Bishops going to demand that pro-death penalty Catholic politicians also be denied communion?
What's worse -- a politician supporting the right to an abortion, or a politician overseeing the execution of a criminal? The Church frowns on both, but the second one seems a little more hands-on than the first.
I'm dying from this conflict. Bishops do not rule the faithful, they are servants of the faithful!
Melanie has posted a response to Atrios's post about religion.
Does that mean she won't be blog-whoring 'round here anymore?
.
Old Hat:
Honey...
I understand your reasons for wanting to enlist. I understand that encountering someone who's served in Iraq would affect you. But this is not a decision to make lightly, as everyone has said.
As others have pointed out, there are many dangers...and not just the kind that you would expect. Things that you take for granted now...you wouldn't be able to see that way anymore, even so much as having a few too many beers over at the Non-Comm club. It's not always a bad thing to be selfish. Not when it's your life at stake. Your life is precious. Yes, it's no more precious than the thousands of young men and women alive in Iraq this instant. But they're there, and they no longer have a choice about that.
Maybe, right now, what you need is to get away from all of this for a while. Perhaps all of this is too much with you now. I don't know. Maybe you need to take a drive along the coast (I believe you live in SF, right?) and spend a few days listening to the otters down by Big Sur. And leave your computer behind, don't turn on the TV, don't listen to the radio or read newspapers. You can do that. It's a choice. Again, those kids in Baghdad don't have a choice about where they are.
You still have your choice about where you are. You lose a lot of choices when you join the military. Are you sure you're ready for that?
You will decide to do what you decide to do. You're an adult, and that's one of the rights you now have. Whatever you do, I will support it.
But think long and hard about this.
P.S. A conservative friend of mine was in Florida recently, and was introduced to several soldiers coming home from Iraq. And those kids had things to say that has him re-thinking this war. The friend isn't a veteran, but he's appalled at the way the soldiers are being treated over there, enough that he's now becoming anti-war. He wants to bring those kids home. Now. Maybe you need a different encounter.
Old Hat,
You're bright, young, articulate and your heart's in the right place about wanting to bring the war to a conclusion. But your physical presence isn't necessary in Iraq to do so.
A group of writers to which I belong is working on a project you may be interested in helping out with.
Drop me an email and I'll fill you in.
I'd say fuck Melanie, but that's too gross a thought for words. And I wouldn't touch her with someone else's strap on.
I've decided from now on I'm going to approach the state of our country as if this were the Twilight Zone episode where the all-powerful kid is in charge of everybody. So everyone who is also so inclined, join in. You know the words...
"It's good that you ignored Al Qaeda so that we were attacked. It's a real good thing."
"It's good that you got us into a quagmire. Oh, that's fine. That's real fine."
Let's hope Bush goes to the cornfield in November.
Grover Norquist just lashed out @ Lou Dobbs!!!!
Google bomb: worst president ever
"Lou Dobbs...bash[es] immigrants, so don't put him on the right."
What?! Where would you put a racist but on the right?!! Orwellian.
This is probably a really ignorant thing to ask, especially since I've been reading this blog for just about two years now--
Who's this Melanie that everyone despises so?
I'd say fuck Melanie, but that's too gross a thought for words. And I wouldn't touch her with someone else's strap on.
Reign it in, cowboy, cuz you're way over the fucking line.
She disagrees with you and with Atrios. So fucking what?
I disagree with Melanie. Big damn deal.
Some folk are just bone-ignorant when it comes to talking about religion, matters of personal faith and politics -- believers and nonbelievers, alike.
I'd fuck Grover Whoregiz with Melanie's strapon.
"we are not a continuation of western civilization"
SACRIFICE THIS ONE TO MOLOCH/BIG JUJU/DOMOKUN!!!
Melanie, like many of the weak minded, is easily confused by evil Jedi masters.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/2.../23SAUD.html?
hp
has anyone read this story about our allies the Sauds? it's very scary - hard to believe the right is willing to put up with this kind of stuff from allies
Far be it from me to add to the chorus, but if ya wanna do some good in the world, Old Hat, joint the Peace Corps.
And ask some guys from 'Nam (or even Gulf War I) what they think about their service "over there" now as opposed to what they thought (or thought they thought) during and immediately after.
And remember - there's a great big difference between serving in a war of necessity and a "police action" or our current "war of choice" - a difference that may haunt you for the rest of your life.
Americans volunteer for war because they are one of the few people that have no idea what war's like.
Bluto W Bush
You've got that right, Bluto.
The NYTimes talks about Dumbo's Big Decision:
(TIMES) "The stakes are too high for us to leave," he said on Friday evening at a campaign event in Florida. (end TIMES)
Yes, yes, let us not interrupt anything as important as raising money for the election just because there's a war on.
(TIMES) "This is an historic moment. You see, a free society will be a peaceful society. A free society in the heart of the Middle East will begin to change the world for the better. No, they're trying to shake our will, but America will never be run out of Iraq by a bunch of thugs and killers." (end TIMES)
How can a human being read such utter inanity without knowing that it is time to Repent because The End IS At Hand? You can tell he's going to go off into predigested pabulum when he starts spouting about this being "a historical moment." He's like a psycho killer who is so desperate to claim a role in history that he's willing to take down any number of others to do so.
WE are supposedly a free society. Is the US a peaceful society? Or is it swaggering around the world with hobnailed boots like a bunch of brain-damaged overly macho thugs defying anyone to knock the chip off our shoulder?
The third-rate platitudes would make Little Johnny fwow up in kindergarten, but these are being offered up as serious discourse on which depend the life of thousands today, and ultimately the life and future of millions. Every time he begins prating about this bizarre abstraction he calls "freedom" I start to get sick. He's turned the word into filth. It's become vile, a puddle of santorum, an excuse for slaughter, looting, rapine, imperialism, and mindless destruction that has no bounds, ranging from the principles of the Republic's founders to the future of our air and water, and our survival not only as a nation but as a species.
Meanwhile, he gets away with it. The press rolls over. The Dems roll over. And his base is so desperate to believe that nothing he ever does is ever allowed to besmirch the sacred image of Beloved Leader. To cite an old song, "And the choir was singing of Freedom."
No, America won't be run out by "thugs and killers," but we may well be run out by the Iraqi people. "Remember Lidice" may well be replaced, to our eternal shame, by "Remember Falluja." Watching this helplessly, one begins to understand Germany in the 1930s, and the idiot response that renamed saurkraut as Liberty Cabbage is alive and well with Freedom Fries and the craven claptrap of politicians defiantly pledging their allegiance "Under God." Me, I'd be content if their allegiance was simply under the will of the electorate, but what do I know?
Now, the same people who thought Bush's War, the unnecessary War on Iraq, would be a cakewalk, the geniuses who said that estimates of needed troops were overstated and that cost estimates were overstated are now saying that estimates of a popular uprising are misoverestimated? As P
OMG
"we are not a continuation of western civilization, we are something new & different"
i hope theres an exact transcript of this one, Grover was really losing it by the end!!!!
ANYONE SEEN THE STORY ABOUT THE CATHOLIC PRIEST WHO KILLED THE CATHOLIC NUN? CNN.COM.
A Roman Catholic priest was charged in the 1980 killing of a nun whose body was found in the chapel of the hospital where he served as chaplain, police said.
The Rev. Gerald Robinson, 63, was arrested Friday, five months after police reopened the investigation into the death of Sister Margaret Ann Pahl, Chief Mike Navarre said.
Pahl, 71, was stabbed about 30 times and strangled on April 5, 1980, police said. Her body was found in the chapel of Toledo's Mercy Hospital where she was the caretaker.
At a news conference Friday night, Navarre said "new technology" led to Robinson's arrest. He would not elaborate on what the link was to Robinson nor would he talk about evidence or a motive.
Police started up the cold case based on a tip provided to the Lucas County prosecutor's office.
The Rev. Michael Billian, spokesman for the 19-county Diocese of Toledo, said church officials will cooperate with police.
"It certainly saddens the diocese," he said.
bentleys, not mercedes:
Where did you live? Myself, I grew up in Alabama, and could make the exact same statement you did, only substituting Christian for Muslim: "I've faced multiple situations where middle-class, educated, booze-drinking, professionally-employed muslims were on the verge of killing me for being an atheist..."
We're starting to feel Deanlove for this Melanie (we wound up supporting Dean [when he was still viable] after a period of sympathy to him resulting directly from the fantasy-based lurid attacks on Dean). Someone should lay out what it was that this Melanie did that was so terrible (guessing-is she TOO ANGRY?).
Melanie really jumped the shark with that one. Can we all safely ignore her from now on (not that anyone noticed her to begin with)???
Cluster bombs in Laos killing children to this very day. So sad, so sad to see them hurt.
Military people, stop. Love thy enemy. Give it a try, even if it seems weak.
If only musicians were politicians, the world would be a better place.
The right is totally clueless about what is going on out there,
dividedandconquered.
People like us are viewed as totally tinfoil hat neurotic and deluded.
No matter what the facts are.
Who's this Melanie that everyone despises so?
Kos made the mistake of adding her as one of his "guest bloggers" after Steve Gilliard started his own shop. She immediately started in on the religious crap, and Kos canned her ass within a week.
Right. Possible support duly evaporated.
To "bentleys, not mercedes": Nader can't be veep because he pisses off the establishment. The media would kill him. From the sideline, though, he gets more respect as a spoiler, and hence, more airtime.
My two cents on who Kerry will choose for veep: Edwards. He can shore up labor support for the free-trader Kerry. Plus, he's got southern charm. Kerry doesn't need Clark because Kerry has the military experience angle locked up himself.
Kelley b.,
More like tinfoil hat "psychotic" rather than "neurotic." But yes, there's a lot of dismissing the progressive left "as crazy." Unlike the religious right who *know* some fictious character called Jesus is coming *back*. Yep, we're nuts alright.
Monica:
It's a joke. And I'm not a guy. So lighten up.
Ever wonder if they are screwing things up on purpose? That's the only way they can say things are going just fine with the sincerety they do.
Maybe, in their eyes, this is part of how it's supposed to go in their whole grand scheme.
Remember when they used to talk about 'decapitating' the regime? Had they done that and left the ministries and economy in tact rather than tearing it all apart before trying to build it back up I might not believe it was on purpose. But it's as if weakening the whole place and creating chaos is how they make sure Iraq can never become strong enough to compete with America's status. With all the oil they have, if it was done right, they could eventually become very powerful geopolitically speaking. This is one of PNAC's biggest fears in the world if you read their stuff.
It's a joke.
Yeah, I realize you were trying to make a joke.
And I'm not a guy.
Makes no difference.
So lighten up.
Nah. Your attempt at humor was over the line.
Texass, I've got a data file on Bu$hCo's dirty deeds that would sink his fratboy ship if anyone in the Justice Department would think about looking at it.
I'm sure many regulars that have been keeping track have similar files.
That's one reason why Ashcroft's making noises about Internet regulation.
kelly B? you're paraphrasing what I said - I didn't say the right was clueless (although it has occurred to me) - I wondered why they put up with the Sauds as allies - did you go to that link? Sauds are sitting there cheering every American death in Iraq - the Imams are allowed to preach anti-Amrerican hatred at the local mosques and these are our allies? - seems counter-intuitive for conservatives to put up with this crap -
if there's an earlier post I've forgotten, a la Emily Littela - "never mind."
have you got any facts handy?
Danya, everything the Rovians do is planned.
They have no intention of turning anything over to the Iraqis. Or the UN. They want the whole bankroll for Halliburton and the Carlyle group- with the US taxpayers paying for the ride.
Anybody see "The West Wing" this week? I just finished watching the tape with my wife. I think I just stopped being a fan, people.
Two plots ran through the episode, one of which was about corporate media monopolization and the FCC caving in to them. CJ was trying to get reporters to report on this caving, basically outing their own companies, without much luck. So she rearranged the White House Briefing Room to better represent the percentage of corporate ownership. And a lot of reporters were pissed because they had no place to sit.
CJ takes a meeting with Leo later, who upbraids her, saying: "Just who is the Little Guy?" This line is a perfect paraphrase of Michael Powell's now-famous rhetorical musing: "What exactly is the public interest, anyway?"
It appears that NBC is now creating talking points to push for "The West Wing".
CJ left Leo's office gently admonished, but not before Leo offers to pick up the tab for the re-decoration in the Briefing Room. What a guy. Small price to pay to add to the Right Wing Echo Chamber that corporate monopolization of media hurts NO ONE--despite the fact that even Trent Lott doesn't agree with THAT canard.
Anybody else catch this? Later.
Melanie, like many of the weak minded, is easily confused by evil Jedi masters.
Kelley, that's harsh. Actually, I've been thinking about men, that I have little respect for, bashing and trying to influence the 2004 election.
I'm really angry that they're doing this. Really angry.
There are some men of religion that are a credit to their profession.
But there are too many that are just disgusting and belong in the sewer.
I haven't read Melanie's post yet, but she's a bright woman. Weak-minded? She is searching for something that is missing and/or necessary in her life.
Such as?
Go to The Center for Co-operative Research and look around.
Start off on the 9-11 timeline, and follow the links. Or the Iraq war.
As your curiosity- or paranoia- grow, google some of the names and corporations.
The facts are entirely in the public domain.
Melanie thinks that Atrios runs a "hate site" and that Atrios ought to censor his comments so as not to offend the religious
Atrios
Submitted by Melanie on Sat, 04/24/2004 - 1:52pm.
Deana,
Sorry I misspelled your name.
Here's the most offensive paragraph:
"I'm tired of liberalish Christians telling me it's my job to reach out to Christian moderates who feel that "the Left" is hostile to them. Screw that. It's time for liberalish Christians to tell their slightly more right-leaning brethren that those of us who fight to maintain the separation between Church and State do it to protect freedom of religion - not destroy it. It's time for moderate and liberal Catholics to take a stand against their Church's assault on Democratic (and only Democratic) politicians who deviate from doctrine."
Atrios hosts a hate site. He may claim to be tolerant, but he does nothing to police the religion bashing that goes on in his threads, in fact his attitude aids and abets it. It is news to me that it is the secular left which is single-handedly maintaining the separation of church and state. Liberal religious people have been doing this for decades. "It's time for moderate and liberal Catholics...etc" tells me that he doesn't have a clue about what moderate and liberal Catholics have been doing for decades. And, yes, it IS his job to make the left a hospitable place for religious people. And that means doing something about all the bashing that takes place on his site.
(Melanie, if you read this, I thought the other denizens of Atrios' comments ought to see what you think.)
pie, I'd suggest you go a few threads back, and read her response to Atrios, as well as the link cnn.com post.
I think she's confused.
Atrios is just saying that atheists can't "convert" moderate-conservative fundamentalists to liberalism because there is no mutual respect, and no willingness to listen.
It's hard for the fundies to respect atheists, because we're "damned".
It's hard for atheists to respect fundies, because we think they're consumed by their superstitions.
If there is any bridge, it's got to be through liberal christians- but unfortunately there is almost as much grounds for mutual offense there, too.
"America will never be run out of Iraq by a bunch of thugs and killers,"
Y'know, I wonder how many times another King George made the same sort of statement. Ain't hubris tasty?
I'm truly terrified.
Here's some tasty outrage, from MoDo yet:
http://tinyurl.com/2szab
Bleargh. I meant to use my real name to sign that post with Melanie's comments reposted.
Just for a lark I checked out Frist's Book on Amazon.... you know the one we all wrote those scathing reviews of, calling him a hyprocrit for having blasted Clarke for profitting from 9/11 when he's doing the same. Well, the scumbags have removed them all and left some glowing ones.
Atrios does not run a hate site- that is, if you discount the trolls.
Melanie is weak-minded, under the influence of wielders of the Dark side of the Force.
That they happen to be ministers- well, it shouldn't surprise anyone in these days of faith-based Supreme Court selections.
A polite if obtuse way of agreeing with LJ. Sorry, monica_nyc, but the kids here are all a rude and rowdy lot. Lighten up.
Kelley B. Is this from some argument in a past life? How does this relate to that NYT piece on the Sauds?
someone sane please read this and tell me if it makes you despair for peace in the middle-east
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/2.../23SAUD.html?
hp
sorry it's cut and paste - would love to know how to do link
Here's an oddity.
My neice's brother-in-law helped capture Saddam.
He said accounts were false. Saddam fought hard.
Imagine that.
Could be an interesting trial, with the old bastard with nothing to lose.
I read the MoDo piece. What utter shit. That you geniuses could take that as "heavy social commentary" speaks fucking volumes.
Kelley, I've just read all the posts, and it appears that people are just doing the usual whoring.
Someone couldn't get a real job.
Yuk.
here is a link to a site I found some time back that I just remembered and dont think I've ever seen anyone talk about this paticular bit of nastiness here.It involves the carlyle group and their infestation of the defense industry.It's a video that runs about 45 minutes and was produced IIRC in sweeden or denmark.THe first few minutes are in a foreign language but it turns to english soon after.It is a video which has gotten no play here,our corporate media is terrified to run anything like this.The conservatives are terrified to watch it.I tried to show it to my S/O whos as right as they come,she didnt want anything to do with it.Do yourself a favor and check it our and become a little bit more enlightened.
Ummm, earth to Old Hat. Dude, please put any thought of enlisting out of your mind. We need you young guys alive and well. Becoming cannon fodder won't help anyone.
Besides, knowing the military as I do, I think you'd do about as well as I would in the authoritarian atmosphere. That's to say, not very well.
I'll echo those suggesting the NGO route.
Besides, you're a charter member of the torch and pitchfork brigade- we need you here. 
Pie, you skany old broad. When was the last time you had some dick?
Pie, you skanky old broad. When was the last time you had some dick?
Pie, you skanky old broad. When was the last time you had some dick?
dividedandconquered, read back far enough, and you will begin to see the connections.
About that time you will also begin to lose sleep and yell and throw things at your TV set...
All part of the price for building mental tinfoil.
Links are easy. See the instructions here.
Enjoy!
I read the MoDo piece, and I wanna tell you, I was impressed... that anyone could type that with her legs straight up in the air while some onetime A-list journo was ramming it to her but good.
Is there anyone who can make less apt and more strained references to popular culture than old MoDo? I am the fucking best.
Damn,another hijacked thread.smartass idiots are prevalent in the Religious Right.When will the rapture come and take them all to hell and leave us in peace?"and the meek shall inherit the Earth".
I'm a devout atheist and I think I might need to move to Canada if Bush gets another 4 years.
Kelley - thanks for the assistance - I already throw things at the tv set - soft things, but with great fury - you think those people at CNN ever take their knee pads off?
smalfish, I'd settle for the Rapture to take 'em all to Heaven.
Just take 'em. Please, God.
The handover will proceed as planned .
Who the handover will happen with is not clear.
The chaos will continue.
The scrambling will go on.
.....
w00t!
Shields up!
Trolls are nigh and we are helpless before them.
Multiplying arguments about religious nonsense, implicitly accepting the groundrules for behaviour in Iraq by the shrubbery that every one of you have, over the last year, contemned; now all of you, just stop. Arthur the Easily Agitated Dog is well and truly agitated, and asks everyone to settle down and think before responding.
What a concept. No wonder old hat's upset.
Haloscan hates my URL for Arthur. No wonder he's easily agitated. http://tinyurl.com/2gr8j
This week Mo Dowd has no plans to wrastle Dubya to the ground and plant little baby kisses on him .
Whoo hoo, is she ticked with him.
.....
Tommy Friedman is not planting no baby kisses neither .
.....
I read the MoDo piece, and I wanna tell you, I was impressed... that anyone could type that with her legs straight up in the air while some onetime A-list journo was ramming it to her but good.
.....................
Never, dividedandconquered.
MinnieB9, there might be a hand off, but not until the Carlyle group has it worked out how to keep drinking Iraqi blood.
Or oil.
Old Hat
Like many of the others here, I've noticed you and enjoyed your comments.
I've been mostly a lurker for a long while.
I just want you to know, that no matter what you decide to do, you have already done some good. I began reading the blogs to understand politics better, and because of a desperate desire to do something to change the horrible course our nation has traveled these past three years.
Here I found a community of minds. Minds that informed me, minds that inspired me and minds that gave me the courage to fight and take action.
You have stood out as one of the bravest. I have taken comfort from your fighting spirit, your keen wit and willingness to defend your opinions. When I've felt discouraged or alone, your sense of humor has lightened my despair.
Life is a war, Old Hat, a war with forces both from without and from within. The choice you make is your own, but don't make it thinking you have done nothing. What fate you choose, no matter where the winds of the tempest takes you, you have been and will always remain, our right good knight.
Just ... let ... me ... adjust my .................. tinfoil hat.
Atrios hosts a hate site.
That's just fucking ridiculous.
Felix wrote:
I'm a devout atheist and I think I might need to move to Canada if Bush gets another 4 years.
Been meaning to take a little survey here about just this question. How many of you would seriously - and I mean seriously - think about moving out of the US if Bush wins the election? Especially if he "wins" by virtue of the massive voter purges taking place around the country (think Florida 2000 times about 20).
I'm not seriously thinking about it yet, but I could get serious real fast...
"...How many of you would seriously - and I mean seriously - think about moving out of the US if Bush wins the election? "
DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU IN THE ASS WHEN YOU GO.
There is only one kelley b.
At my trademark email address.
The immediate prior post was not me.
The immediate prior post was not me.
Been meaning to take a little survey here about just this question. How many of you would seriously - and I mean seriously - think about moving out of the US if Bush wins the election? Especially if he "wins" by virtue of the massive voter purges taking place around the country (think Florida 2000 times about 20).
I wouldn't.
No way, zeke.
Nowhere to go to on this planet.
Give me a good starship, though...
Although I'd settle for a stargate and the address to the Nox.
How many of you would seriously - and I mean seriously - think about moving out of the US if Bush wins the election?
Count me as one of those.I told my other half of these plans and she about flipped.I still think that it may have to be an emegration tho if bush.....uhh nevermind,I'm not even going to go there.
That wasn't me, smalfish.
We have the name stealing troll again.
Ever wonder if they are screwing things up on purpose? -- Danya
Yeah...the Neocons may be a lot of things, but they aren't stupid. In fact, I suspect they're laughing all the way to the bank.
And lighten up on Melanie, people. I'm an unappreciative athiest too, but I'd rather rail against those who lack a social conscience (and from what little I can tell, she's not in that group).
Old Hat,
Don't know you but appreciate your comments, and what others said. I'd like to give some information that might be useful for your decision:
My father volunteered for war. He was sixteen. His best friend turned into spaghetti sauce all over him, and my father couldn't wash for hours.
The war warped him for good. He survived, but he then had children and kept up the war on them. Damages: enormous, and continuing to the next generation.
War does things to you which might not be reversible.
DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU IN THE ASS WHEN YOU GO.
Nice, real nice. Wasn't your guy the one who was going to "change the tone"? Cause he's a "uniter not a divider"? I see you're living up to that promise about as well as Bush has. What kind, compassionate people you all truly are!
Another thing: when I visit here I notice a continual barrage at my firewall.
Someone's very interested in finding out who I am.
Newbies: never use your real name at this site. It's not Ashcroft you have to worry about, it's the supernatural denizens.
That wasn't me, smalfish.
I knew that.
Hey troll why not take your little game elsewhere.Your not annoying and your not funny.You are a mere inconvience and that can be overlooked.But it would be best if you went and fucked yourself.THat way your mother could get a rest.
Apologies, zeke, for the insults from the name stealer.
Open thread?
49 daze until Ashley and Mary Kate are officially humpable.
DEAR ZEKE:
KILL YOURSELF, OR MOVE TO CANADA. SAME DIF.
Go jerk off somewhere else, sonny boy.
i wonder who Kerry's VP will be...
It will be John McCain
Watch and see
A pragmatic Republican joins forces with the Kerry to instill a sea change in American politics.
It is sorely needed for the good of this country.
McCain will pull through the moderate Republicans and this will be the beginning of the end for the evangleical Christian right wingers that are the basis of Bush's fake presidency.
Kerry + McCain will be the best thing to instill more accountability in the Executive Branch as well as forcing the Senate and Congress to legislate on the key issues and play less partisan politics that is cuasing irreparble damage to our country.
"Your [sic] not annoying and your [sic] not funny."
Wow. You must be some kind of grammar genius, smallfry.
"Go jerk off somewhere else, sonny boy."
now, that's compassion, zeke old boy !!!!!!
Wow. You must be some kind of grammar genius, smallfry.
You're either 13 years old, or a case of arrested development. It's more forgivable if you're 13. If you're a grownup, I really feel sorry for you and suggest you seek professional help. Getting your thrills by trying to get a rise out of other people is not a sign of mental health, dude.
Needless to say, smalfish, it was our little gnome once again.
Pirated my email addy, too, this time.
And again, somebody's banging at my firewall.
Watch this troll, people.
Please accept apologies in my name in advance.
I'm gone for tonight.
Peace and power, strength to you all.
Here's the AP story on the fearsome struggle (also known as Mein Kampf)the Führer is having trying to resist his deity's whisper to wipe Fullajah off the map. But I'm pretty sure his vengeful, blooddrenched deity will win.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news...id=544&
ncid=716
I can't eat enough to vomit enough.
"Here's the AP story on the fearsome struggle (also known as Mein Kampf)the Führer is having trying to resist his deity's whisper to wipe Fullajah off the map. But I'm pretty sure his vengeful, blooddrenched deity will win.
"http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/
ap/20040425/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_iraq&cid=544&
ncid=716
"I can't eat enough to vomit enough."
OK: NEW RECORD FOR STUPIDEST POST.
I sent an email of the flag-draped coffin (tthe one that got the woman fired) and my friend with an aol address had it blocked.
AOL kicked back emails that my brother sent of the flag-draped coffins:
(Mailer-Daemon error message back from AOL at bottom of this email)
:
205.188.156.249 failed after I sent the message.
Remote host said: 554-: (HVU:SR) The URL contained in your email to AOL members has generated a high volume of complaints. Per our Unsolicited Bulk Email policies, AOL will no longer accept email with the URL contained in your message.
Oh, zeke, I will change my ways. You have convinced me --
especially after I went back and read all your well-reasoned posts. Dude.
Since I very rarely post here, and haven't for over a week, I know that you didn't actually "go back and read" anything. Why do you have to lie, sonny? Why do you wingnuts have so much trouble telling the truth? Inspired by your Dear Leader, perhaps?
A Boy King...
An Evil Master...
A Wicked Plan
That's Armageddon!
http://www.geocities.com/jackemo...oe/
boy_king.jpg
Is the US a peaceful society? Or is it swaggering around the world with hobnailed boots like a bunch of brain-damaged overly macho thugs defying anyone to knock the chip off our shoulder?
As a resident of a country that is the occasional victim of US foreign policy and even more often of its strong-arm tactics when we try to do something rational that goes against the reigning theocrats in Washington (e.g., legalization of pot), I'd say that last bit is about right.
But the thing that really has me in a state of disbelief is that your citizens - at least enough of them to make the elections outcome uncertain - still believe this retard you have in the White House. How can this be? Is half the country totally daft? Or is it really the media down there? I don't have a TV so I don't know what you're seeing from CNN or Faux News, but it must be severely tilted for the country not to be up in arms over this illegal invasion and occupation. From what I hear on our news and read on the net they are masters of deceit, but is everyone really that gullible? Fucking incredible if you ask me.
Is half the country totally daft?
I used to put that number at 30%. Now my estimate is up to 40%, maybe even 45%.
Or is it really the media down there?
The media bears a great deal of blame for the current state of affairs in the U.S., but it's also true that they largely tell people what they want to hear. A TV station or even just a show that featured really honest, dispassionate reporting about complex subjects would get a miniscule rating, and the concept of broadcasting in the public interest has vanished - it's only about profits. So instead of real news, we get a lot of flag-waving and happy news, and precious little critical thought. The media are terrible, and we've had a 40-year campaign to destroy the public schools, with the net result being that a distressingly large percentage of our population is ignorant and/or misinformed.
smalfish:
I may be a stickler for grammar, punctuation and spacing but I dig your spirit and agree with most of your rants. Fuck E.B. White.
Rage on.
c
I may be a stickler for grammar, punctuation and spacing but I dig your spirit and agree with most of your rants. Fuck E.B. White.
Thanks,I am trying to get better on my writing.Try and forgive my ineptitude in this reguard.I have no real training in the english arts.I never paid much attention to the concept,and now I pay the price.
BTW who's E.B. White?
A TV station or even just a show that featured really honest, dispassionate reporting about complex subjects would get a miniscule rating, and the concept of broadcasting in the public interest has vanished - it's only about profits.
You know, this is really it. It's bread and circuses, but the diversion is being provided by the corporation, not the state.
To the same end, of course: to keep us from paying attention to how screwed we are by the "free market" that's supposed to solve all our problems.
The education system sucks. Critical thought should be the by-word of public education, and the justification for the public expense. A free people are a people able to think critically.
Health-care? It is to laugh. We are repeatedly told we have "the best health care system in the world." Right. Not worth a dime if you can't afford it. And if the free market is the answer to all our health needs, why is everybody and his uncle trying to buy drugs via Canada?
The list goes on, and on, and on. We pay too little and expect too much and get even less from government, from corporations, from everything. But by gar and gum, we're free! Free to be screwed over by corporations. Free to be lied to and fooled and treated like morons. Free to be used as cannon fodder for any little imperialist enterprise any popinjay wants to get up to. Free to be exploited, expended, exposed to the calumny of the world.
And most of all, free to be fools who refuse to believe anyone else on the planet might have an idea about organizing societies and civiliations that might work even better than anything invented here.
In other words, free to realize: we have met the enemy, and he is us.
But not free to accept that that just might be true. These days, they'd call Walt Kelly a "Blame America First-er."
Abiel,
Yes it is "fucking incredible." That's why many of us are thinking of leaving if the unelected buttmonkey-in-chief wins (or gets selected) again. I don't really know what kind of support the evil buttmonkey really has, but anyone who does support him is either a fascist or isn't paying attention, or both. Witness these trolls (who I hereby invite to go fuck themselves with their assault rifles, the cocksuckers).... Or consider my conservative "christian" aunt, who is offended by cats because they walk around with their tails in the air, showing their butts.... Remember that many Americans came here not for freedom but to oppose their will on others.... Is the American dream (the other one) finished? I hope not, but it's starting to look that way.
Hey Karl Rove: FUCK YOU.
And Bush, Cheney, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, Feith, Frist, Rice, and the rest of you bloodless monsters: FUCK YOU TOO. You're all murderers.
I'm sick to death about this war--as are most of us here, who fought hard to stop it before it started. If you've got any advice for us, we're listening.
Peace and love,
-billy
On moving to Canada: they require a B.A., four years work experience and enough money to live for six months. New Zealand and Australia also require a B.A. but only two years work experience. Plus, New Zealand recognizes partners of two or more years as "spouses". Spouses of any can emigre can emigrate freely.
Or if you have million dollars to invest in a business in Canada you may also emigrate.
sorry to be adding someone else's ideas instead of my own, but Richard Clarke's column in the New York Times is f'in great. I don't--and I reckon most of you all don't--agree with all of his ideas on winning the 'war' against terror, but he is so clearly energized to stop terrorism (and, by extension, not energized about the presidental election) that his comments should have credibility...of course, he's just a 'disgruntled employee who was left out of the loop' or whatever. [or in my own immortal words, chair-warmer.]
luv, annie poo
In other words, free to realize: we have met the enemy, and he is us.
Robert, I couldn't agree more.
What really kills me is the short-sightedness of this corporate strategy to dumb down the country. How the hell can democracy survive if our education system, health care system, environmental protection, etc., etc. are all allowed to decline to the level of a Third World country? Because that's where we're headed. I can see where a few people benefit from that, but how can so many people either be blind to what's coming, or think it's somehow in their interest??
I'm sure i'm not the only one that has noticed a sense of helplessness and depression creeping over the blogosphere. Several small bloggers I go to have taken a holiday, Billmon went fishing, and there's just this general sense of being overcome by the tide of bullsh*t.
So what are we going to do about it? I'm sick of arguing with trolls, I'm tired of talking - I want some action. How about organizing a big fat protest march? One that protests not just Bushco, but the radical right wing and its practices.
We could march in Washington, and in every major city in the country. Maybe it won't help, but at least it will give us some relief from the feeling that we are sitting on our hands.
Go ahead, and pick this idea apart but for pity's sake, replace it with a suggestion for doing something.
sorry to be adding someone else's ideas instead of my own, but Richard Clarke's column in the New York Times is f'in great. I don't--and I reckon most of you all don't--agree with all of his ideas on winning the 'war' against terror, but he is so clearly energized to stop terrorism (and, by extension, not energized about the presidental election) that his comments should have credibility...of course, he's just a 'disgruntled employee who was left out of the loop' or whatever. [or in my own immortal words, chair-warmer.]
luv, annie poo
Daddy-O Yeah, we stopped watching West Wing about two months after Sorkin left. It's just crap. The snappy dialog, the real issues. Gone. The characters were doing stuff that they would NEVER do based on what the actors/writer had established over that last few years. I looked up the guy who is the new "show runner" and he ran ER during the time I stopped watching IT.
I think a lot of people noticed on West Wing, but they are in a rut and they don' think anything better is available.
I am still watching the Sopranos and it reminds me how much this White House is doing an old fashion 'bust out' like on Sopranos. They get into a company and just start looting it.
Did anyone here the story on Marketplace about the Corruption in Iraq. Profitteering of the worst kind.
They guy that they set up as an auditor in Iraq has no experience doing this and the guy advising him from the US doesn't either.
You have slick multinationals with huge resources sucking down money and you put a guy with no staff, computers or techiques in place to keep an eye on where the money is going.
Why am I not surprized.
What did all make of this story?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp...-
2004Apr22.html
-----------There's continuing buzz over a comment national security adviser Condoleezza Rice made at what was apparently an off-the-record Washington power dinner with New York Times Publisher Arthur Ochs Sulzberger Jr. and other Timespeople at the home of Washington bureau chief Philip Taubman.
Rice, according to an account in this week's New York magazine, at one point said: "As I was telling my husb . . . " then stopped and said, "As I was telling President Bush. . . ." ----------------
If you've got any advice for us, we're listening.
Peace and love,
-billy
Ok how about this. Stop smoking crack. Stop making these moving away threats that A- you won't leave and you know it, and B- Nobody cares. Even a little bit. But other than that, the only thing i can think of is have your mommy burp you when you are done eating and you won't be so gassy and grouchy then.
i've been wanting to share this Lynda Barry short story with you all.
(please dl to your computer, to save my bandwitdth)
Go ahead, and pick this idea apart but for pity's sake, replace it with a suggestion for doing something.
Tings, far be it from me to say people shouldn't protest. Hell, we should all be Howard Beales, screaming out our windows, "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!" Satisfying, but it only gets you so far.
What we need is a way to convince those who are uncertain that the Bushies really are evil, incompetent fuck-ups who must be kicked out. I know this is just a vague, non-specific notion; but I feel strongly that whatever we do, it must be pragmatically aimed at persuading the persuadables.
Here's something I think all lefty and moderate bloggers should be discussing.....Maybe Atrios could start a new blog on this?
Apparently, Saudi citizens (including Bin Laden family members) in the US were allowed to fly around the US right after 9/11..when the rest of the country was completely grounded. Even one preapproved charter flight carrying a donated organ to the Northwestern US was forced down by Navy jets. Apparently one flight of just over 40 Saudis was allowed to leave the US on September 13...early in the day before the general flight ban was lifted. Apparently also none of the Saudis was interrogated by the FBI (some were questioned but didn't undergo "serious questioning" or "interrogation").
The author Craig Unger has written a book that in part details what went on during those few days in "House of Bush, House of Saud". But there are also quite a few news stories floating around about this:
http://www.sky.com/skynews/
artic...2758358,00.html
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.co...fm?
id=971322003
http://www.boston.com/news/globe...flee_after_911/
http://truthout.org/docs_03/1001...3/
100103G.shtml
http://www.hillnews.com/news/021...104/
waxman.aspx
Given that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi...and the Saudis have been knowingly funding Wahabi Islam and Al Qaida....doesn't it seem rather odd that they'd be allowed to leave in such an unprecedented manner...when nobody else could fly at all? Without so much as an interrogation?
if you guys don't mind me inputting again, i have a good west wing story from today: i was jogging w/ my dog near the lincoln memorial when a big limo with the pres flags stopped about 10 yards from where i was waiting to cross the street: out popped martin sheen, stockard channing, and the rest of the gang, to take a break from shooting. one of the policeman actors' dogs ran over to meet mine and i had a quick chat with the 'cop' and mrs. bartlet, er, ms stockard. i hollered to martin "go dems, beat bush" and went back to my run. got the fist pump from martin and it made me happy.
luv, ann.
How many of you would seriously - and I mean seriously - think about moving out of the US if Bush wins the election?
zeke | Email
Not me, man. You'll have to pry my country from my cold, dead hands, MFer.
I LIVE to fight this kind of shit, and I have nothing better to do. I'm not leaving, those who can't abide by the US Constitution are gonna have to go before me, dammit.
What else truly is there?
See you in November.
I'm convinced that one day, soon perhaps, the media, advertising and marketing industries will come to the realization that the left has money too, and that our dollars are worth the same as everyone else's.
Howard Stern is a trendsetter, Air America is a vehicle for the message, George Bush is behind a rally cry that reaches coast to coast and there is a profit to be had from all of it. Perhaps we should remember to spend our hard earned pittance in a wise fashion, as to have the most impact on the powers that be.
I mean, how good can it be to have a bunch of ditto-heads and miserly rich people as your consumer base. I haven't done any research, but I'm pretty sure the ditto-heads invest all their money in gold. Did you know now is the best time to invest in gold. Investing in gold defeats terrorism.
if you guys don't mind me inputting again, i have a good west wing story from today: i was jogging w/ my dog near the lincoln memorial when a big limo with the pres flags stopped about 10 yards from where i was waiting to cross the street: out popped martin sheen, stockard channing, and the rest of the gang, to take a break from shooting. one of the policeman actors' dogs ran over to meet mine and i had a quick chat with the 'cop' and mrs. bartlet, er, ms stockard. i hollered to martin "go dems, beat bush" and went back to my run. got the fist pump from martin and it made me happy.
luv, ann.
Stop making these moving away threats that A- you won't leave and you know it, and B- Nobody cares. Even a little bit.
If nobody cares, why do you give a rats ass if people say they want to leave? Wasn't it that great conservative icon Ronnie Reagan who said that people should "vote with their feet"?
If enough really smart, talented people are disgusted by the next election - particularly if it is affected by Bushco shenanigans, which are now in the works - there could be a significant brain drain from the U.S. Nobody wants to leave; but it might just be a good 4 years to spend somewhere else.
sorry for the redux; shit, i haven't got the hang of this yet.
How the hell can democracy survive if our education system, health care system, environmental protection, etc., etc. are all allowed to decline to the level of a Third World country?
The point, I think, is that they don't want democracy to survive. They want a corporatist fascist state with uneducated people.
Hey Bently, I lived with muslims for 4 years and they were the nicest people ever. What was your problem?
BTW who's E.B. White?
http://tinyurl.com/2be64
Sorry I can't imbed: gotta go get the wife's wonton.
Where's Chris Tucker when you need him?
c
sorry for the redux; shit, i haven't got the hang of this yet.
No worries, Annie gal. Just don't hit "refresh" right after you post.
Nobody wants to leave; but it might just be a good 4 years to spend somewhere else.
zeke
I heard it all before. I just can't wait to hear Alec Baldwin say "I'm serious this time, NO I AM REALLY."
The point, I think, is that they don't want democracy to survive. They want a corporatist fascist state with uneducated people.
Susan -- well, yes, that must be true to some extent. But even for those who would benefit most from such a situation, wouldn't they too suffer from the general deterioration? I mean, they can't stay in their gated communities 24/7/365...
I worked a double today, so the mind is working in a disconnected and creative fashion. While driving home, I was listening to a talk show where the topic was if the coffins of soldiers should or should not be photographed, filmed, etc. and shown. SO I thought: How's this for a protest? Put together an honor guard, and respectfully place representative flag-draped coffins, one at a time, on the slope of the hill of the Washington Mounument, facing the White House, so Bush can graphically see what this war has achieved?
Frankly, I don't know what kind of advice to give. If people down there can't connect the dots - even the less than rich Rethugs - and see that their "Administration" (and I use that word in its institutional sense, not in a functional sense) is selling the country down the river, then there's not a lot one can do. Your manufacturing jobs are moving offshore, your public school system is going down the toilet (if it's not there already), your debt is increasing at a torrid rate, 40 million of you have no medical care, you've got the entire world (save a couple of small pacific islands) pissed off at you, and your government has not an ounce of concern for the views of anyone else. All so the large transnational corporations can make a few obscenely wealthy selfish assholes even more wealthy. Y'all are not in a good way.
I'm going to bed. I have to read the Handmaids Tale again tomorrow since it's rapidly approaching the status of documentary.
Oh, and Old Hat. Don't do it. If you have to go, go as a volunteer with MSF (Doctors Without Borders). You would do as well in the military as I would, which is to say you'd be court marshalled for telling some stupid prick who was your senior that he was a stupid prick (or variations on that theme). Good luck to you whatever you do.
You know I wasn't asking you, White Hood Smell. Why don't you go where you have some friends? I don't smoke crack, and I've left the country before--during the Reagan and Bush I eras. This is worse. What's your deal? Do you really think you're accomplishing something here? How lonely must you be?
I heard it all before. I just can't wait to hear Alec Baldwin say "I'm serious this time, NO I AM REALLY."
Well, I did think about it before, but many factors kept me here. But now I've reached a point in my life where, career-wise, I can easily find work abroad if I want it. There is certainly something to be said for living in a country (like most of Western Europe and Canada) where the concept of "the common good" is still highly valued, and where they do not have governments that are run by and for the wealthy.
Anyone else experience AOL censoring emails with pics of the flag-draped coffins?
lol awww look who's raw!!!!
There was a great article today in the Washington Post about the evolution of the abortion rights movement. If you didn't read it yet, and have any interest, go check it out. It's really fascinating.
I put up a couple posts in my blog about it. In particularly, I find it interesting how a lot of people in the younger generation seem to be more willing to give concessions--such as in regards to late term abortions and parental notification. This worries me, as I see it as little more than an overall strategy to slowly chip away at abortion rights and eventually outlaw the procedure.
Also good talk about the evolving debate within the movement in regards ot these and other issues. Some really good stuff.
Any thoughts on all this?
- Joel
----
Nightmares For Sale - Progressive Politics. Social Rants. Hope.
Here we are again, then.
As to abortion rights, yes, the trends here are disturbing. I wish we had the common sense that is found abroad, as I just posted on my blog (story is from England):
Common Sense
And I wish we had more of it here in the states.
Nurses should be allowed to carry out abortions to speed up the process and defuse growing controversy over terminations late in pregnancy, according to family planning chiefs.
Waiting times to end a pregnancy could be cut by letting more junior staff oversee 'medical abortions' - drugs that induce a miscarriage - or simple surgery such as the vacuum procedure, says the Family Planning Association.
Under current law, only doctors can perform a termination. But the FPA chief executive, Anne Weyman, said the law was restricting NHS provision and forcing women to delay until later in pregnancy when terminations are more traumatic.
Weyman said: 'Nurses would have to be trained and properly supported to do it, but it means you would get a larger pool of professionals you could call on.
'Abortions under 10 weeks are so much safer and less intrusive. The longer she goes, the more she suffers.' Some women were waiting up to seven weeks for an NHS appointment, she said.
Zeke Ol'Froth
Weird thing happened when I tried to post an answer to you. Haloscan went batty on me. It's late now so I won't try to keep up a discussion on demostrations, but I really like your idea of an honor guard, Ol'Froth. I'll find a thread to spread the idea around tommorrow.
Wow the time difference between the last posts are tremendous.I wonder of everyone has had as hard a time getting here as I did?
"... I also believe that freedom is something people long for. And that if given the chance, the Iraqis over time would seize the moment."
That's Bush to Woodward. Seizing the moment over time is like saying, "Yes, I'll bring you a glass of water right away, eventually."
I think the plethora of expressions like this, that fall a little short of making sense, indicate a more serious problem than syntactic dyslexia: they reveal a lack of ready access to logical and dialectical thought.
"Terraists Hate Our Freedom" is probably as luminous as the flaming Bush Mind can get. And may help explain why he was selected as a tractable preznitial candidate by The Almighty -- and other powers that be. Of course such elitist ruminations are irrelevant because -- like 57% of Homelandians -- Bush's got the Big Pik-Ture! Yay!
Globally, people seem to understand that Bush's actions do not uniquely comport with Gifting the Untermenschen with Freedom. Hopefully, by November, more Americans will come to see that the emperor is stark raving naked.
Then there's Diebold. If this election is blatantly fixed, many Americans may feel they have little left to lose, and might start longing for freedom. Just like preznit sez.
smallfish
I think I brought out some kind of gremlin when I called for a demostration. It took me a while to get back and longer to be able to post a comment. Do you think the walls have ears?
I think the attempt to try and smear John Kerry on his policies being against the Catholic Church are going to backfire. What this does is make John Kerry look religious. The Dems have a disadvantage in this part of the character issue. They are trying to frame it as an abortion issue. It is coming off more as a religious issue. People will begin to look at this as John Kerry being in trouble with HIS church. This will define his character as someone who attends church regularly. The Rove attack machine has screwed themselves again.
smalfish,
It seems like HaloScan went down for awhile. Commenting on my blog was down, it was down here, and it was off at other blogs as well. Bad timing, since I was specifically trolling for some comments on new posts on my blog when it went down.
Oh well. Shit happens.
- Joel
----
Nightmares For Sale - Progressive Politics. Social Rants. Hope.
Joel
Oh,good. I was just about getting ready to put on a nice shiny tin foil hat.
I gave up and just got drunk.
Erik--
I think you are right about that. Plus, a good deal of the press I have seen about it has raised the fact that the Church was also against the Iraq war and is against the death penalty--and has not invoked the withholding of Communion in those cases!
Rove is the master of the comedy of errors, it'd seem.
The hiatus was a halocan snafu--the comments were down on my site the whole time too (not that it mattered, of course!)
Just testing a snafu thing and advertising blatantly for Drunken Moneky Style Blogging.
Will report back in one week with results of the snafu thing. be prepared to cringe puny mortals.
I gave up and just got drunk.
Damn, I should have thought of that. Where the hell are my Fat Tires?
Yep, haloscan was f'd for a good long while there. I think the tipoff is, on Atrios' main page, the number of comments shows up as 0, on all threads. There's obviously some flow of data back and forth to keep the count updated, and I suppose when haloscan goes down, the count's assumed to be nil.
G'night, all.
It seems like HaloScan went down for awhile.
there was a troll on here for a while that was trying to hack into some of the posters.I wonder if they're connected?
Given the frequency of haloscan screwups, I doubt there was foul play involved, but who knows?
Speaking of comments, though, I was very proud a week or two ago when I got my first comment on my site telling me that I should kill myself.
I have arrived.
My twelve year old daughter got her first letter to the editor published!
Iraq
Scroll down to "A future we don't want"
rorschach
That's why I think that Kerry is playing this issue up, instead of running and hiding. Kerry looks better and better everyday. Bush is done.
George Johnston Good for her!
Tell her that the some adults over at Eschaton are fighting so that she doesn't have to go.
Today's "Read it and Weep"
Washington Post Dana Milbank
This is why the release of those pictures was so important.
The statistics in this article drives me crazy. It's like people WILLFULLY ignore the facts. The press don't REALLY give both sides of the story, because one side of the story is prohibited from being mentioned (national security and respecting the family's feelings, don't cha know.)
What if my son got killed in the war and I'm PISSED about it? I felt that HE WAS asked to DIE FOR A MISTAKE. What if my Son believed that too, and right before he died he told me, "Dad, please make a big deal about my death. Let people know I died in VAIN. That I DIED for a LIE. Please show photos of my mangled body. Please show photos of my coffin. Send an invitation to the president for my funeral and ask him why if he won't show up. If he does show up please release the photos to the press. I WANT to make a political statement with my death.
Now can the press say they are respecting my wishes if the DON'T cover this? Or say that it is a political statement. I say that any time the photos are NOT shown it IS A POLITICAL statement.
I wonder if any families that feel that way are out there? How much longer will it take for someone to become so pissed off at this governments’ policies that they will not simply sit by and be quite about how your son's death is covered?
More Melanie stuff:
If her comments were true it would be one thing. Though I myself am rather agnostic who is down with Jesus (but generally not with his church)I've often written pro-Christian posts here. My belief (and one that nobody but a fool can argue with) is A: that while the existance of God may be debated till the crack of doom, the existance of Christianity as the dominant faith in America is pretty undeniable. B: You catch more flies with honey than with bile. and C: If most Christians actually paid attention to what their Messiah said NOBODY would EVER have a problem with them. From that platform I've spoken out again and again against the athiests and agnostics who somehow think that screeching "anybody who believes in an invisible sky buddy is dumb," might somehow make the world a better place. I've quoted the Bible, and even confessed that I like to pretend it's all true---- when acted upon this imaginary faith becomes the Post Modern version of the real meal deal. I've never gotten anything but peace, love and understanding from the regulars at Atrios. Sure, there was the odd jackhole, who ripped me a new one for giving the Christians an inch---- but they are the fundis of the Left---- as bad as any Southen Baptist in their belief that there is only ONE WAY to believe. They don't speak for Atrios, or the community he has created here.
Shouldn't type after 2AM. Structure and grammer fly out the window! But you get the general idea.
http://www.reuters.com/
newsArtic...storyID=4930526
Is our children dying?
4 Iraqi kids murdered by American troops today for standing bear a burning Humvee.
They died with their book bags on their backs.
Now that is a late term abortion.
ModDo has done Kerry a huge favor today by handing him 25 devastating ideas for anti-Bush ads. John, use MoDo...now.
While mowing the lawn yesterday for some reason I found myself thinking about Colin Powell. I won't bother y'all with the tedious details, but I ended up concluding that it was powerfully ironic that after 40 years in the military, where courage is one of the cardinal virtues, he found himself in a situation where courage was more necessary than at any previous point in his life. And he blew it.
I suppose he may try for redemption later with a self-serving McNamara-style act of contrition, but I hope no one lets him get away with that kind of crap. It's really quite a sad story -- but he made his choice.
Just looking at the posting style, I think the nameless troll that hassled zeke, smalfish, and me (and Atrios and Tena and pie) last night was also using the handle White Blood Cell.
He made only a couple of posts with my name after I signed out, after which WBC appeared.
Note stylistically the poster was very similar to those using my name.
If this troll was also the one hammering on my firewall at the same time, then he is a malevolent one.
Earlier this week the poster WH'ho got an email (s)he thought was from one of the regulars here, and responded from work.
The nameless one- who may or may not have been the same one bothering us here- used the header info usually masked in all email info to identify the source computer. The troll identified WH'ho's employer that (s)he'd been posting on company time, and got WH'ho into a world of trouble.
This speaks to a directed attack against us.
This may be Poindexter's minions, or some freelance wingnut with time on his hands.
In any event, I urge caution in posting here- don't identify yourself to the group with your real name. I urge caution in replying to email.
But don't stop fighting. Above all else, people, keep up the posting and information flow. It's what the Rovians really want to stop the most.
I tried a post last night at 11:58. When I hit OK, poof you was gone. did I do something wrong. I ran my antivirus check and nothing showed up here.I'm not real fluent on this thing as some may have guessed. Any the post was for old Hat.NO NO NO.
Haloscan was down off and on last night and for most the morning.
I found haloscan down around 9:30 pm PDT. There was some speculation on another blog that the above-mentioned troll had hacked it.
I'd say fuck Melanie, but that's too gross a thought for words. And I wouldn't touch her with someone else's strap on.LJ
Some joke, LJ. I think most of us missed that one, no matter your gender.
People giving Old Hat suggestions and concerns over her/his considering to join the military and possibly kill innocent people. .. Old Hat probably won't even be shipped out anywhere for a while. My neighbor joined the Army a few weeks before the bombs started falling on Iraq, where is he now and where has he been since he finished boot camp? On a Hawaii base.
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