I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Why couldn't it have been Scalia?
Scalia, bitch!
Oh, and by the way...uh...first...or whatever....
What?!!!
This is unbelievable!
Thugs. These people are thugs!
Kevin Spacey, David Souter... coincidence?
Cheneys energy task force boys?
Prayers for the justice's recovery and future safety.
Has anyone seen some "defense contractors" in the area?
just wait for the s to hit the f if this turns out to be a VRWC thing.
R.I.P. The Great Experiment
Who Souter? (me unenlightened Brit)
TheaLogie - a Supreme Court Justice (a decent one)
Let me guess. They were trying to kill him but got scared off? What key upcoming votes might Souter have hurt the Republicans on?
How about a link ... I can't find the story on MSNBC or in the wires.
Um, the Cheney case.
What key upcoming votes might Souter have hurt the Republicans on?
How about a Bush appointment to the Court?
TheaLogie: Souter is one of the more liberal Supreme Court justices. If I recall correctly, he was actually nominated by Reagan or Bush I (leaning towards Bush I) and turned out to be surprisingly liberal.
The Right would love for him to not be on the Supreme Court.
How about a link ... I can't find the story on MSNBC or in the wires.
Convenient circumstancs.
How many now?
Just like Bush said, either we fight these terrorist insurgents over there, or we'll have to fight them on the streets of America.
On MSNBC .. something on Oprah Winfrey right now .. nothing on Google News .... ?
We live in Smirks new world where winger thugs got away with stealing a presidential election and now nothing will stop these Repuke criminals as they continue stealing America. Maybe Heston was right; arm yourself.
Hey, maybe the Republicans got the idea that if they are going to lose the election, they need to precipitate some "retirements" so they can pack the court with more Nazis? Is Bork still alive? Also, is Bjork still alive?
TheaLogie: Souter is one of the more liberal Supreme Court justices. If I recall correctly, he was actually nominated by Reagan or Bush I (leaning towards Bush I) and turned out to be surprisingly liberal.
Souter was a George I appointee.
One of the few bright moves of his Administration.
souter was appointed by bush 1.
are we sure this story isn't bullshit? none of my searches are turning up a link
this is not currently being mentioned on any news channel/web site. msgop is now playing a profile of oprah. just have to wait and see whether it's true.
oops,
circumstance
"I didn't get a good look at them. They were wearing masks, but one of them was wearing a black robe and, when he ran away, this duck call fell out of his pocket."
Not surprising to me. I used to live in Souter's neighborhood. Some moderately priced apartments, but mostly very expensive condos & townhouses, less than a block from lots of public housing. A couple of months after I heard a semi-automatic weapon being fired in the distance, I moved elsewhere.
Bork's alive and well, as far as I know.
I'm sure Pat Robertson will be on shortly to say it was the work of angels.
Here's the Souter story at CNN
http://tinyurl.com/yucse
not souter! why couldn't it have been me? take me, jesus! i'm the one who wipes my ass with the constitution!
WASHINGTON - Supreme Court Justice David Souter (news - web sites) suffered minor injuries when a group of young men assaulted him as he jogged on a city street, a court spokeswoman said Saturday.
The attack occurred about 9 p.m. Friday, as Souter, a regular jogger, ran alone, court spokeswoman Kathy Arberg said.
Supreme Court police took Souter, 64, to a Washington hospital, where he was examined and released about 1 a.m. Saturday, Arberg said. She did not detail his injuries except to say they were minor.
Souter was not robbed, Arberg said.
What key upcoming votes might Souter have hurt the Republicans on?
ALL of them.
Link.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/05/0...uter.assaulted/
Souter was appointed by Poppy Bush. Turned out to be not quite as conservtive as they thought he would be. The repugs have been pissed as hell since they found out. He was on the losing end of the 5-4 vote which appointed Duh?bya. He's also pro-choice. Any wonder why they'd want him off? By the way, where was his protection? They're supposed to be protected, aren't they?
BROWNSHIRTS! FREAKIN' BROWNSHIRTS! That's freakin' it...What's the address of the local Bush/Cheney office?
As noted above, it's near a tough neighborhood...
Let's not be any more paranoid than we have to be...
Not a man we can afford to lose. Fuck. Hope he's going to be OK.
In lieu of encroaching on the personal space of a reputedly very private guy, my best wishes for his speedy recovery.
Paranoid? This isn't paranoia. Beating up people, literally and figuratively, is what the Bushes do. Give me a break.
WHERE WAS THE GUY'S SECURITY DETAIL???
Reports have Souter's attackers wearing ear pieces and asking "What's the frequency, Kenneth?"
GDoyle
Is this relating to oil drilling in Louisiana that might threaten endangered pelican habitats? Or was that something else?
If nothing else the comments here are certainly a measure of our polarization.
As noted above, it's near a tough neighborhood...
Let's not be any more paranoid than we have to be...
WE DID IT!
What would the motive be for attacking a male jogger? Robbery? (How much money, if any, would someone have?) Kicks? (nothing else to do on a Friday night)
Reports have Souter's attackers wearing ear pieces and asking "What's the frequency, Kenneth?"
GDoyle
Reports from where? Or is this what the Brits call a leg-pull?
That just means the going rate for a roughing-up doesn't have to include mileage costs.
Is it possible to be paranoid in Ass crofts america?
Rush: "well... hehehehe... there's irony in this, folks, and I wonder if you can see it. Let me explain it to you. These attackers were not conservatives. They were liberals. And they were probably not white. So maybe this is a chance for Justice Souter to re-think a few things. Because it's exactly the kind of permissive pandering that Justice Souter indulges in that encourages this kind of thing. So maybe, and I'm not holding my breath, folks, maybe Justice Souter got a little sense knocked into his head, and, after all, that would be a happy ending. Anyway, we wish him well."
Ohh my. Thanks for the info people. And28, 'Pelican Brief' was just what came to mind. I mean, this is real life, not John Grisham, but the associative memory is inescapable.
OK, can we all chip in and buy Souter, the avid jogger, a gym membership? We cannot afford to lose one of the good-guy judges!
Sending him a message?
Supreme Court Justice Assaulted During Jog
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: May 1, 2004
Filed at 12:04 p.m. ET
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Supreme Court Justice David Souter suffered minor injuries when a group of young men assaulted him as he jogged on a city street, a court spokeswoman said Saturday.
The attack occurred about 9 p.m. Friday, as Souter, a regular jogger, ran alone, court spokeswoman Kathy Arberg said.
Supreme Court police took Souter, 64, to a Washington hospital, where he was examined and released about 1 a.m. Saturday, Arberg said. She did not detail his injuries except to say they were minor.
Advertisement
Souter was not robbed, Arberg said.
Jon Rudd, this Brit suspects a leg-pull. Awfully difficult to tell without a /sarcasm tag.
Reports have Souter's attackers wearing ear pieces and asking "What's the frequency, Kenneth?"
GDoyle
******
Uh, that's supposed to be a reference to Dan Rather when he was mugged in New York City.
Couldn't he have been mugged by people who didn't know who he was? I don't think the Supreme Court has round the clock protection, so I'm assuming that's what happened.
Rush really, really, really said that???
*throws computer across room*
Okay, that was unproductive.
I was stunned enough by the story itself, but Rush's response to it....
.......breeeeeeeathe.....
Did Souter refuse to sell the chocolates?
Sending him a message?
Well, if it's not the first two, it certainly could be. I just want to come up with other possibilities, because I sure hate that one.
It was Karen Huge. You see, Souter is pro-choice, so he's a terrorist. Isn't that what she said on CNN last week?
Unless convincing evidence shows up to the contrary, I'm inclined to think this is an instance of Life in the Big City...
Jeepers, we've got enough things to worry about as it is...
So glad I wasn't the first poster to mention Kevin Spacey.
ie. This could very well have been a gay-bashing, folks.
Spacey is a friend of Bill Clinton's. He was in the comedy video they did at the end of his second term.
Isn't Rush a dear?
One more example of why trying to parody the Right is like trying to parody Hollywood...it can't be done.
OT but another beating story= The Pentagon tried to get CBS to NOT run the Iraqi torture pictures. CBS held off for two weeks. Bush NOW expressing outrage is BS. He knew about this weeks ago....
gaybashing or political operatives?
Rush: "Now I'm not saying anything here, but let's just think about this for a moment. Justice Souter is not married. Has never been married. Now, folks, don't get ahead of me. But here we are, it's late and the Justice has gone out jogging. Okay, let's say it is jogging. He could have been jogging. And he meets somone. Maybe he stops to talk to them. Now, I know what you're thinking, and I'm not suggesting anything. It could have been a misunderstanding. It happens. Maybe the Justice was lonely. I mean, his own collegues don't want to talk to him. So it's late, and he's lonely and there is a misunderstanding. Just like Kevin Spacey. Except the Justice doesn't have a dog.. Okay, got to take a break here.... "
Kevin Spacey's not gay? Is he?
You guys are unbelievable.
The guy went jogging in the DC area and got attacked. I live in LA there's a reason I don't usually go jogging by myself when it's dark out. Before you assume this to be part of the "vast right wing conspiracy," why not wait for some facts? I mean, if this really was "Pelican Brief" shit they wouldn't just have sent some thugs to beat him up, and he wouldn't have escaped with minor cuts and bruises.
Kevin Spacey's not gay? Is he?
No, but his dog is.
Why should we care if he is or isn't gay? It's none of our business.
I ask again, WHERE was Souter's Security detail? They should have cought at least one or two of these guys. Really.
I'll want to hear Souter's explaination of this event. And if it was politically motivated, he should state the facts. If it was just a bunch of neighborhood toughs taking advantage of an opportunity to rough up an old man, then, as much as I'd be horrified, I'd still be relieved.
Wow, is sarcasm really dead, or did everyone take a daft pill this morning?
The "what's the frequency, Kenneth", a play on Dan Rather's stalker thing.
The EIB transcript, as dead nuts on as it may be, if you all will check the date (well, stateside anyway) it's Saturday and, at least in my market, El Lardbo takes the weekend off. Brillinant parody, but parody none the less.
As for not being more paranoid than we need be, well, how can you not be paranoid enough anymore? Yeah, I'm still trying to reserve judgement until this plays out, but my gut tells me this was no coincidence.
I'm with Rudy upthread, and hasten to add just because we're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't against us!
Why is it the progressives get hurt or killed (uhhh, Wellstone, Carnahan, Kennedy, there're more--it's heavy on the killed side) and the pukes only get caught with their dicks out (Sinclair guy, Newt, Henry, there're many more) and it never affects them?
"1984"
"The Prince"
"Executive Orders"
"Pelican Brief"
and who says that aWol doesn't like to read?
OK, so maybe RoveCo is reading them to him
Isn't Rush a dear?
One more example of why trying to parody the Right is like trying to parody Hollywood...it can't be done.
Well, I thought I did okay. We'll see on monday.
Aha! Now we can see where Rush is taking this.
Big gay expose re Souter. Souter forced to resign. Bush gets to fill the vacancy with a dyed-in-the-wool Rightie.
What next? Mysterious fire guts Capitol building?
For what it's worth, as it were...
I knew you guys were dumb, but not dumb enough to believe that Rush transcript....
no news from drudgereport or foxnews. Do they know something?
Are they as worried about the political-related-assault can of worms as I am?
I'm disgusted by this atrocity
Sort of OT, but relevant to never being paranoid enough, this is in a piece about Joseph Wilson's new book:
Wilson also criticizes the press for not reporting more aggressively about the alleged White House campaign against him and his wife. He says that when he has probed reporters who have followed this story closely he has received "disturbing" responses related to being afraid to "cross the administration."
Hey, nice going.
You had me fooled.
:D
Reports now confirming thugs who beat Justice Souter were wearing Cheney/Bush t-shirts.
Developing . . .
Well, I can only say that you need to put copyright protection on your stuff, EIB Transcripts, because what you wrote is exactly what El Lardo will say on Monday.
I have to say I don't believe the Pelican Brief angle. They wouldn't dare.
However, I could believe that some yahoos took it upon themselves to display a bit of displeasure with Souter's judicial leanings. Dumb, because Souter is hardly going to be intimidated.
Wrong place at the wrong time, I suppose. And if Rush really said that, more the fool, he. Fathead.
Rush isn't worthy to kiss the hem of Souter's black robe.
The one means that wins the easiest victory over reason: terror and force.
Adolf Hitler in MS(1924, "1.2"), quoted in Harper & Row's International Thesaurus of Quotations (which does not for some reason include the Niemöller quote)
We were looking for one we remember from the old Scorched Earth shareware, about "the first and most important thing in the pursuit of power is the frequent and unrestrained use of violence", something like that.
This goes back to our complaint about the term "Greenshirt", and about the justice of calling Misha (among others) a brownshirt. Brownshirts were not unreasonable leftist-socdems, brownshirts were paid thugs identical to the mafia strikebreakers used by Ford. Political violence is the key part of their definition, and until we hear about a tendency among Naderites to beat the shit out of DLC types (like the way the DLC rhetorically goes out of its way to smash Naderites) this is not a valid use of the "x-shirts" idea.
I also used to live in Souter's neighborhood in SW D.C. (at least thats where he lived in early 90s)Its a very pretty area by the Potomac but also close by to some rather crime-plagued neighborhoods.
One day I saw Souter, just like any regular guy, at the local Safeway. From all I can tell, he is a really decent person. BTW, justices don't have security detail while they are not at work.
So while I seem to be suggesting that this was the result of a couple of local thugs, let me close by saying that Scooter Libbey also lives in the neighborhood.
Rush will never be attacked while jogging. He may be found dead on his toilet (hopefully soon), but never jogging, unless he was chasing a lobster-tail filled with smack.
He says that when he has probed reporters who have followed this story closely he has received "disturbing" responses related to being afraid to "cross the administration."
Is this supposed to be a revelation? Maybe to some, I suppose.
what's that line that Big Pharma likes to use about a liberal is just a conservative that hasn't been mugged yet
Pie makes the most interesting point:
What would the motive be for attacking a male jogger?
Considering Souter's record on the Court, it is not implausable to imagine this was meant to intimidate.
It was some GOP operatives doing a little "bourgeois wilding".
i'm demonstrating disgusted by this atrocity, they out outnumbered the bastard!!
now that's funny. hee hee...
Still, don't these kids have a shrieker or some such "find-me-help" item. Continuity of government and all that...
Still think the security response was inept
Rethuglicans done it.
Never thought I would be praying to Buddha "Please let it be random street crime, please let it be random street crime!"
The alternative is too horrifying to bear.
Liberal male joggers can be raped, too. They need to know this. I can never be raped because, I'm an angel and have no orifics other than the one I use to smoke with.
Agreed, Librul. Sigh.
So while I seem to be suggesting that this was the result of a couple of local thugs, let me close by saying that Scooter Libbey also lives in the neighborhood.
THUG1: Oh shit, I told you it was Scooter and not Souter that we were suppose to hit. The boss ain't gonna be happy.
THUG2: So whaat. It's still some stupid pol, right? He probably deserved it. Now where does that Novak guy live>
Where were Oliver North, G. Gordon Liddy, and Condi Rice at about 9:00 p.m. last night?
a reliable source - an old buddy of mine still in Washington - just told me that Manuel Miranda also lives in the neighborhood.
Piss on the AP:
"...He is not the first justice to be injured while exercising. Justice Stephen Breyer was thrown from his bicycle several years ago and also suffered minor injuries..."
He is the first Justice to be beaten by thugs. ever.
What next? Mysterious fire guts Capitol building?
You have to get a deranged Dutch Communist to pull this job.
It's a tradition.
This just in: 3-4 non-white males were just arrested and have provided full confessions that they attacked Justice Souter for drug money. Case closed. Nothing to see here. Move along. [/whistling].
Now, hey, let's just await developments before making sinister comparisons, people...
Breaking news... Manuel Miranda rooms with Chip Stevenson III, president of the Georgetown University Young Republicans.
Two observations:
1) Rush Limpbug's responses: a) he's a liberal, so he deserves it b) he's queer, so he deserves it, provide a perfect definition of the fascist mindset.
2) We are now so far along in the polarization process that a) Souter may very well have been attacked by political thugs b) even if he wasn't, the possibility is now a real one.
Welcome to the last days of the Weimar Republic.
I guess that leaves it up to me to make the Godwin's law call.
If they didn't steal anything, that nixes robbery as a likely motive. If it was a gay bashing, it would have been worse. When guys bash gays, they usually don't let them get off lightly.
As unlikely as it was that this was politcally coordinated, there does seem to be a "grassroots" political motive implied.
"I didn't get a good look at them. They were wearing masks, but one of them was wearing a black robe and, when he ran away, this duck call fell out of his pocket."
Brian C.B
Damn Brian, that was funny, it made my day (so far).
In the words of Homer Simpson:
Not Souter!
Remember when a certain religious figure called on his followers to pray for the death of Souter and his "leftist" companions? Rough neighborhood or not, he wasn't robbed.
The right wing echo chambers are quiet. TOO quiet. Nothing from Fox, no drudgereport.
something is rotten in denmark...
1) Rush Limpbug's responses: a) he's a liberal, so he deserves it b) he's queer, so he deserves it, provide a perfect definition of the fascist mindset.
Again, this was a parody of Rush. Sorry for the confusion.
Uh-oh, EIB Transcripts, looks like you're going to have start using the <:parody>: tags on your posts.
You can never be too paranoid when dealing with the Rethuglicon Party.
It is simply idiotic to think he was beaten up by conservatives. Unless it was gay-bashing by idiot conservative homophobes with no idea who they were attacking. There is no conspiracy.
I have no idea whether or not Souter is gay, but that is a rumor at my law school (and yes, we are dorky enough to gossip about S.Ct. justices).
OT: Kevin Spacey is widely reported (by friends of mine who claim to have been hit on by him, among others) to be gay.
Breaking News... Justice Souter was attacked by three young men belonging to a mysterious gang called "the plumbers" who sport tattoos that say 'Free ANWR'... Now back to continuing coverage of the Michael Jackson case. Will this be the trial of the decade?
Lamestream Media Channel
Liberals who jog at night are always looking for gay sex. ITS WHAT THEY DO. And why was Souter running with a condom on?
Relax, folks. Jeebus.
If the Admin wanted him dead, he'd be dead already 
He's jogging at 9pm? There's more to this story. How about some wild ass speculation? Souter was the victim of a hate crime.
When I suspected that Bush's cause for war with Iraq was a lie, was I too paranoid?
He's jogging at 9pm? There's more to this story. How about some wild ass speculation? Souter was the victim of a hate crime.
patriotboy
Which is what the right will say. Over and over again. They would like nothing more than to drive Souter off the court.
par·a·noi·a ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-noi)
n.
A psychotic disorder characterized by delusions of persecution with or without grandeur, often strenuously defended with apparent logic and reason.
Extreme, irrational distrust of others
Remember when a certain religious figure called on his followers to pray for the death of Souter and his "leftist" companions? landlubber
...
Well, yes I do! (Although I can't remember exactly who it was. Was it the same "religious" figure who said that all Foogy Bottom (i.e. the State Dept.) needed was a small nuclear device?) He must not have been praying hard enough, or maybe Jesus/God wasn't listening.
Lots of people not looking for sex jog at 9 PM. Especially those who work long, long days.
Woo-Hoo is a CIA spy.
The right wing echo chambers are quiet. TOO quiet. Nothing from Fox, no drudgereport.
Also curiously silent on the issue: The BBC, the LA Times, the NY Times. You know, all those bastions of conservatism....
But of course there's some massive right wing conspiracy to slightly injure liberal Supreme Court justices, and you're the only ones who are onto it! You guys take yourselves way too seriously.
Also, I can't believe so many people here bought the Rush parody. I thought it was pretty funny, but come on!
Woo-Hoo is not a spook. Just the frog in the vat of water that grows hotter by the minute. Best hop out unless you want to perish with all the others.
The right wing echo chambers are quiet. TOO quiet. Nothing from Fox, no drudgereport.
Also curiously silent on the issue: The BBC, the LA Times, the NY Times. You know, all those bastions of conservatism....
But of course there's some massive right wing conspiracy to slightly injure liberal Supreme Court justices, and you're the only ones who are onto it! You guys take yourselves way too seriously.
Also, I can't believe so many people here bought the Rush parody. I thought it was pretty funny, but come on!
Which is what the right will say. Over and over again. They would like nothing more than to drive Souter off the court.
How would being a victim of a hate crime drive him off the court?
But of course there's some massive right wing conspiracy to slightly injure liberal Supreme Court justices, and you're the only ones who are onto it! You guys take yourselves way too seriously.
Normally, I would agree with that statement, Dave. But how do explain the fact that Souter's case is being handled by Sgt. Joe Gentile? Coincidence? I think not!
Asshcroft aided terrorists:
Despite the recommendations of the Clinton Justice Department, then-Senator John Ashcroft opposed controls on electronic encryption in 1997
...
When Janet Reno's Justice Department protested efforts in the 1990s to make it easier for Silicon Valley to export encryption technology overseas, then-Senator Ashcroft seemed unconcerned with her contention that terrorists were turning to Internet encryption to communicate.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/...00.html?
cnn=yes
OT: Ted Rall suggests Kerry come out solidly for 2nd ammendment rights.
http://www.uexpress.com/tedrall/
I heartily agree. As the situation in Iraq confirms, protesting with an AK-47 is several thousand times as effective as protesting with a sign.
occam's razor.
no cruising.
no assassination attempt.
just a little boredom and everyday class/race anger bubbling up.
by the way i hear it might be a hot summer.
There's nothing irrational about distrusting the right wing wackos these days.
Woo-Hoo, the CIA Spy, this wire story is for you...
TEHRAN (Reuters) - Is Iran about to be invaded by little green men or are the Americans racing through the night sky in spaceships to spy on the Islamic Republic?
Flying saucer fever has gripped Iran after dozens of sightings in the last few days. Fanciful cartoons of alien spacecraft have adorned the front pages.
State television on Wednesday showed a sparkling white disc it said was filmed over Tehran on Tuesday night.
More colorful Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs) have been spotted beaming out green, red, blue and purple rays over the northern cities of Tabriz and Ardebil and in the Caspian Sea province of Golestan, the official IRNA news agency reported.
Newspapers and agencies reported people rushing out into the streets in eight towns on Tuesday night to watch a bright extraterrestrial light dipping in and out of the clouds.
An airforce officer in the Revolutionary Guards was quoted in the reformist Vagha-ye Etefaghiyeh daily saying Iran's Supreme National Security Council should investigate whether these visitors from afar had hostile intent.
But Sa'dollah Nasiri-Qeydari, head of the Astronomical Society of Iran, told Reuters the stories were unfounded.
"In my opinion, flying saucers do not exist," he said, insisting his telescopes would have picked up invaders from outer space.
"The people who have seen these things are not experts - farmers, villagers and pilots," he added.
He said what people reported was consistent with the planet Venus, whose intense light in its current position would be given different hues by being filtered through the atmosphere.
If you didn't understand, they're ready to go away with political murders. Be warned, be ready.
If they begin, there must be retaliation.
For once, I think the liberals and progressives should take the 2nd amendment seriously and should make their own personal arsenal in prevision of next Novembre.
Lots of people not looking for sex jog at 9 PM. Especially those who work long, long days.
I don't think that being out on the street at 9pm means that your out looking for sex, but I've never seen anyone jogging at that hour. It sounds suspicious to me. I have a feeling it was a hate crime. Call it intuition.
(smack) Ok Dickie, (thump) you got the message,(whap) right? Don't (crack) try to talk (bop) just nod. How you going to vote on abortion next time? WRONG ANSWER! (thud, smack) OK, Let's try this again. (Slam) OK good, you're learning. (Bam)Now how about this Cheney deal? You
know he's innocent? Right? (kapow) RIGHT?...Ok boy's I think the old guy's learned his lesson, Drop him and let's get the hell out of here.
patriotboy, I've seen joggers out way past 9 p.m. in D.C. I felt a little guilty, since one or two would pass us after we had left a restaurant, having enjoyed a meal that wasn't exactly low-fat.
I walked from Foggy Bottom to the edge of Kalorama/Adams-Morgan for a year and a half every night at that time of night. Saw one mugging. Never saw a jogger.
Anybody else find it a little odd that the Washington Post's only story on this is an AP feed?
Nice to know I'm not the only one who jogs at that hour. It's cooler and less crowded--which I would imagine is also why Souter jogs then.
I was flying back from China on September 11, 2003. There was a little paranoia among the passengers about travelling on 9-11. Behind me were two young children with an elderly Chinese couple I guessed were their grandparents.
Apparently the grandparents didn't speak english, because the children were swearing like sailors on leave. Everytime we'd hit turbulence, the kids would yell, "It's a fucking bomb!", "We're shit out of luck!", or "Get ready to die, fucker!"
The comments here remind me of those kids. Kinda funny, kinda stupid.
Woo-Hoo, the CIA Spy, this is a story from the Financial Times. Can anyone say Iraq for Oil? Too bad for them the House of Saud will temporarily increase output for the elections...
ChevronTexaco, the second-biggest oil and gas company in the US, on Friday reported record first-quarter net income - $2.56bn, or $2.40 a share, up 33 per cent on the year.
The record figures continue a trend among the company's peers. The industry has profited from high oil and natural gas prices, as well as increased demand and better margins for refined products and chemicals.
"All of ChevronTexaco's business segments were better than we had modelled," said Michael Mayer at Prudential Financial. He had forecast earnings per share of $2.05, and the consensus estimate of analysts was $2.02 per share.
ChevronTexaco's share price rose $2 to $92.4 in midday trading. Dave O'Reilly, ChevronTexaco chairman and chief executive, said: "All of our major businesses contributed to an excellent first quarter, with profits that helped us achieve a 17 per cent return on capital employed for the past 12 months." Revenue increased 9.1 per cent to $33.57bn.
The company put its strong gains into improving its balance sheet, ending the first quarter with a debt ratio of 25 per cent, down from 32 per cent a year ago. It had nearly $6bn in cash at the end of the first quarter.
In the exploration and production segment, ChevronTexaco's income rose slightly, to $1.95bn. But earnings in its downstream, or refining and marketing segment, were $640m, up sharply from $354m.
I just have a feeling about this one. Like the feeling I had the second I heard about Oklahoma City and I knew it was related to the militia movement.
Never saw a jogger.
I was near DuPont Circle (my daughter lived on New Hampshire). They must be more into the physical fitness routine there.
Never saw a mugging. 
Next time he will wake up with a horse's head in bed next to him.
Welcome to neo-America.
Everytime we'd hit turbulence, the kids would yell, "It's a fucking bomb!", "We're shit out of luck!", or "Get ready to die, fucker!"
I'm surprised those kids weren't shipped off to Gitmo after the plane landed.
Why couldn't it have been Scalia?
Philalethes | Email | Homepage | 05.01.04 - 12:52 pm | #
Fat Tony don't run. Got it?
Christ, Harry, its raining out and 55 degrees. What the hell else are we supposed to do?
A bit OT, but about another mysterious, more tragic event. At the WSYX demo yesterday Bob Fitrakis told me that Athan Gibbs, the guy who invented TrueVote, a verifiable voting machine system (and who encouraged Fitrakis to investigate the folks behind Diebold and ES&S), died in a head-on collision with a truck in March.
Here's a link to Fritakis' article on
sketching connections between right-wing evangelical Ahmanson family and ES&S/Diebold etc:
http://tinyurl.com/2xz59
And here's one to his column on Athan Gibbs death:
//tinyurl.com/2fvv6
First the points that stick out.
1. "..The nature or motivation of the attack could not be determined..."
2. "..but sources said it appeared to be a random attack..."
-Did the attackers say anything?
-Did the attackers make any comments?
-Did the attackers seem to know Souter?
-Did they ambush him from out behind some structure or behicle, or were they standing out in the open, saw Souter, then persued him?
-If the later, did they run after and chase him down, or did Souter jog past them upon which they immediately sprinted a short distance and grab him?
-If the later, what were the men doing prior to the attack? Were they just standing there as if waiting for someone or something or were they walking/jogging/running themselves?
-If the prior, were they standing near an commercial outlet such as a bar or restaraunt, or payphone, or street corner?
I've taken numerous deductive logic courses over the previous 20 years of my education period and the circumstances surrounding this attack would help say wonders even if the attack was planned, there are always small details when, if brought to light, can expose the true intentions and thus add a new course to the investigation.
I haven't been watching the news so I don't know if additional details were made available that route but very few were given in this link.
That alone is suspicious sense no descriptions of the individuals were given such as race, height, guessed weight, etc.
Aa proper investigation is no doubt underway, but the one point I want known is that it states he was an avid jogger. Such dedication to a regular pattern of behavior could easily be the key to any conspiracy investigation.
MYOB'
.
Must not...put on...tinfoil hat...
I was near DuPont Circle (my daughter lived on New Hampshire). They must be more into the physical fitness routine there.
I lived near there on Wyoming Ave., about a block and a half from the Chinese Embassy.
Never saw a mugging.
That was freaky. It was on Connecticut Ave, around the corner from my house across the street from the Ukranian? Embassy.
Or was it the Belorussian embassy? All those former Sovie republics look the same to me.
One thing I have to ask is why Supreme court justices aren't monitored/protected by secret service?
This is a supreme court justice and terrorists can do more than just blow things up. They can assasinate, and I think the GOP would love to see Souter assasinated.
He is probably the most hated of the Supreme court justices on the right because he was appointed under the assumption he would be a conservative, and ended up being more moderate to liberal in his conclusions. This meant he changed his tone once he got into the seat and the hopes of the rightwing were squashed.
If a conspiracy is underway I'd suggest Pat Robertson be questionsed since he publicly prayed for his god to murder these people and Souter.
MYOB'
.
One of the attackers was screaming about "natural law."
There was a soldier in Minnesota several months back. He was shot at the side of the road, and the story went that he had stopped to help a stranded motorist who then shot him and drove off.
A few days later we learned that the soldier shot himself. He was due to be shipped back Iraq the next day.
I knew right away that's what happened because the story was missing just enough details to make it plausible. Among the things missing was a satisfactory motive and even a vague notion of the identity or appearance of the attacker.
I'm curious about it being the Supreme Court Police (!) who took Justice Souter to the hospital. If they weren't his security detail in charge of protecting him when he's out in public, why were they, and not the DC police, the ones involved. Maybe there was a duck call involved after all.
Did someone say they already caught the kids that did this?
I have a picture in mind of one of these kids being woke up by his roommate.
Hey Joe, what did you do last night? Oh, we rolled some old rich white guy, why? Well, the house is surrounded by SWAT, helicopters overhead, snipers on the roof, and John Ashcroft and the FBI are in the living room wanting to have a little visit, see ya in 20 years.
Maybe the the Supreme Court Police patrol the area. We had both uniformed Secret Srvice and DC police patroling our neighborhood.
Lots of strange cops in DC. The GSA cops are the scariest. They dress like they're in some Argentine Brownshirt unit.
I wouldn't trust the secret service to protect members of the judicial branch. They're an executive department, and are sworn to protect the president.
The Supremes need to have their own security, which it seems that they do (Supreme Court Police).
We're in the middle of an assault by the executive branch on the other branches, and the judicial is taking the worst of it. No way would I accept promises of security from the aggressor.
patriotboy - I have that same feeling and it hit me immediately when I got online and my home page - Atrios - opened and I saw the story.
If it turns out that Souter was attacked for his politcal position, then what can one say?
ChevronTexaco, the second-biggest oil and gas company in the US, on Friday reported record first-quarter net income - $2.56bn, or $2.40 a share, up 33 per cent on the year.
what's funny is the Chevron station near my workplace raised prices $.05/gallon on Thursday, then dropped them back down on Friday. guess they caught some flack for their "crony tax"
patriotboy - I have that same feeling and it hit me immediately when I got online and my home page - Atrios - opened and I saw the story.
I thought I was the omly one geeky enough to have Eschaton set as my home page.
What I like is the way the AP presents the story courtesy of Yahoo:
"Souter is among the youngest justices and is a regular jogger.
He is not the first justice to be injured while exercising. Justice Stephen Breyer (news - web sites) was thrown from his bicycle several years ago and suffered minor injuries."
Like what the fuck does that have to do with anything? Getting the shit beat out of you does not equate to falling off your goddamn bicycle!!! NP must be editing the wire today. I didn't see that paragraph the first time I read it. Can anyone confirm that this was or wasn't added to the story?
I'm not paranoid about this yet. That's saying alot-- I believe that if the Republicans are trailing in October, they will either call off the elections or resort to the Reverse Manchurian Candidate option.
But the Palm Beach Rioters better have alibis.
So should Pat Robertson, World's Biggest Shitbag:
Would you join with me and many others in crying out to our Lord to change the Court? If we fast and pray and earnestly seek God’s face, then He will hear our prayer and give us relief.
One justice is 83 years old, another has cancer, and another has a heart condition. Would it not be possible for God to put it in the minds of these three judges that the time has come to retire? With their retirement and the appointment of conservative judges, a massive change in federal jurisprudence can take place.
From his Operation Supreme Court Freedom.
Everytime we'd hit turbulence, the kids would yell, "It's a fucking bomb!", "We're shit out of luck!", or "Get ready to die, fucker!"
I'm surprised those kids weren't shipped off to Gitmo after the plane landed.
Anonymous
Well they were Asian kids, and not nearly as dangerous as a couple of Ay-rab kids would have been. The browner the kid, the more likely they would have made it to Gitmo.
(Capt. James Yee is the exception that proves the rule, btw ...)
I'd rather the Supreme's security detail worry more about this sort of thing rather than seizing somebody's darn tape recorder, for chrissakes...
Something smells. And NYT had an ap wire report, BTW. Fox got nothin'
I think somebody in Washington knows the motive and doesn't want to report it. "For the good of the nation," my fanny.
Kenneth... er, David, what is the frequency??
Fun from Freeperville (Lucianne.com).
BTW, it looks like the wingers are apoplectic over the decision to ease up on Fallujah and bring in the former Republican Guard general...
"Is it just a coincidence that disgusting pictures of both American AND British soldiers abusing Iraqis have surfaced within days of each other? Is it possible that Moveon.org has infiltrated the military and staged this stunt to make our leaders look bad and to turn the world even further against us? Disturbing as that thought is, I find it entirely within the realm of what liberals would do. After all, didn't Soros say 'whatever it takes to defeat Bush'?"
patriotboy sez:
I thought I was the omly one geeky enough to have Eschaton set as my home page.
Raises hand.
.
Well, at least Tena's excuse is that Atrios' has given her keys to the house. You, patriotboy, have no such excuse.
I knew you guys were dumb, but not dumb enough to believe that Rush transcript.... MBF
Well, seeing as you believe everything out of the RNC transcript and bush's mouth, I believe I'll take that with a littttle grain of salt!
Well, at least Tena's excuse is that Atrios' has given her keys to the house. You, patriotboy, have no such excuse.
I'm so ashamed.
Getting the shit beat out of you does not equate to falling off your goddamn bicycle!!!
Except, in this case it probably does:
"He sustained "minor injuries" and is "feeling fine," Arberg said."
what's that line that Big Pharma likes to use about a liberal is just a conservative that hasn't been mugged yet
You know, it just occured to me how racist that phrase really is. I've heard it a couple times before, but wow. The line of reasoning seems to be that a liberal is a person who hasn't seen how violent and criminal black people are. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but the right says a lot of shit like that. That andy sullivan post about how Iraqis need to learn how to work cause they've been living the good life of a slave is a perfect example.
Why does David Souter hate 'Muerica?
GDoyle
I can never be raped because, I'm an angel and have no orifics other than the one I use to smoke with.
Bigggg OOPS:
I can never be raped because, I'm an angel and have no orifics other than the one I use to smoke with.
Shit! Forget it! What I was trying to say was too dumb anyway!
I believe that if the Republicans are trailing in October, they will either call off the elections or resort to the Reverse Manchurian Candidate option.
Easier to pull off might be the DHS "narrowly averting" an al-Qaeda/Saddam loyalist joint operation to detonate a WMD in the major city of some swing state.
Easier to pull off might be the DHS "narrowly averting" an al-Qaeda/Saddam loyalist joint operation to detonate a WMD in the major city of some swing state.
Them there Islams want to blow uo Sioux City real good.
I'm not paranoid about this yet. That's saying alot-- I believe that if the Republicans are trailing in October, they will either call off the elections . . .
I can assure you that won't be necessary.
Wow just read the comments above. Talk about jumping to conclusions!
Hopefully Souter himself can provide some information on his attackers.
One thing I wanted to tell me people who are unfamiliar with DC - it aint all a "tough neighborhood".
Maybe it was random drunk punks on a Friday. Maybe it was muggers. Maybe it was Cubans under the direction of G Gordon Liddy. Maybe it was Pat Robertson fans answering his prayer that God would take pro-choice Supremes lives. I think all of these are a distinct possibility.
I'll wait for more details.
As much as I'd like to blame the Rethugs, it looks like a classic small-time mugging attempt to me.
Guy jogging alone at night, gets roughed up, no money on him (he's jogging not the type of thing you need your billfold for) so they run away after roughing him up.
I have a feeling it was a hate crime. Call it intuition.
patriotboy
If this turns out to be true, do you think we'll ever hear about it and/or Souter will participate in covering it up?
Them there Islams want to blow uo Sioux City real good.
Having been to Sioux City a few times, I can tell you there's already a significant amount of fallout from that City without a bomb.
If the definition of a conservative is "a liberal who has been mugged", there is hope for this court after all
Since this is "have fun with the l-dotters day", here's another comment:
Reply 9 - Posted by: anybodybuthil, 5/1/2004 8:12:42 AM
Two tours? I thought he spent only 4 months in Vietnam?
I gotta say, it's hard not to jump to conclusions on this one. Let's see how this plays out. But we're not crazy for wondering, it really is a possiblity. One of the real dangers of american politics is the firm belief that we're so different from every other coutnry that shit like that can't happen here. Except that it has happened here, and there's no rule that says it can't happen now. Germany was a normal place too until the Nazis got power.
If the definition of a conservative is "a liberal who has been mugged", there is hope for this court after all
Tell us Harry what specific decisions you'd like to see the Court make.
It was probably the Little Green Footballs webmaster. I mean if you take half the shit at the site seriously, I am really surprised their haven't been reports of roving gangs of mouth breathing rednecks beating up people in order they appear on David Horowitz's hit list website.
Except that it has happened here, and there's no rule that says it can't happen now.
Sure it can happen here. Especially since we all know what really happened to Vince Foster. (wink,wink)
Harry,
And a liberal is someone who gets arrested, ask Rush how he feels after he finally gets taken down... he'll be begging for a soft-on-crime liberal judge and a jury packed with morons.
Steve
I don't think there's much here.
I've stayed at the Bull Moose B&B near there (great TR-themed rooms) and gone on runs at that time of night, mostly through the neighborhood down to the Mall.
Then again, are the guy runners here fearful of muggings while jogging at night? I generally have the sense that shady characters don't want to mess with me (at least that's what I tell myself). Few of us carry cash while running and they know that. So that's the puzzling part of it all.
Maybe he turned a corner and come upon a deal going down or something?
Here comes the Judge!
I'd rather the Supreme's security detail worry more about this sort of thing rather than seizing somebody's darn tape recorder, for chrissakes...
So does an SC justice now need a security detail to go out jogging? The guy got mugged and scraped up. It would seem like he does have a panic button to push or something like that, but I'm glad these guys can go out in public like normal people.
Something smells. And NYT had an ap wire report, BTW. Fox got nothin'
Where? I'm looking for it on their website, can't find it. It definitely wasn't up when I looked earlier.
Its 2:00 o'clock central standard time. Have you read your Juan Cole yet?
If it were Scalia that was attacked, Rush would be on the air from his golf cart with a three-way call into Hannity and O'Reilly, talking about the traitorous hate-filled liberals... or that Kerry ordered a hit, and it was botched...
god we are all talking like wingnuts and freepers in here....
The NYT had the Souter story cycled through its AP/Reuters headlines box.
Also, the AP story is featured prominently at the WaPo.
BTW, in today's STL Post-Dispatch, there was an incredible story about how Macedonia essentially kidnapped 6 or so Pakistanis and shot them dead so that they could say they were getting tough on "terrorists". Now that is fucking crazy. I wouldn't doubt Bush said "hey, why didn't we think of that!" "And here's $50 million in aid!"
Finally, the paper also had a great smackdown editorial on Karen "Why Did Bush Make Me Abort My Baby?" Hughes for her associating pro-choice people to terrorists.
pgmt:
There plainly just capitalizing on the ignorance and wishful thinking of the book-thumping crowd... probably making a fortune.
I have been tempted to get on the band wagon and sell drift wood at my local fleamarket as pieces of Noah's Ark... Don't know if I could maintain a straight face though.
Steve
Hey, I thought it went like this:
A conservative is a liberal who's been mugged.
A liberal is a conservative who's been arrested.
You are correct Lucille, if you'll look upthread I countered Harry B. Troll with that ...
I don't have a plan for Iraq. I strongly suspect, however, that all the plans you hear now are irrelevant. If America's leaders hadn't made so many bad decisions, they might have had a chance to shape Iraq to their liking. But that window closed many months ago.
Paul Krugman
I really wonder whether, with the emergence of these photos, the game isn't over for the Americans in Iraq. Is it realistic, after the bloody siege of Fallujah and the Shiite uprising of early April, and in the wake of these revelations, to think that the US can still win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi Arab public?
Juan Cole
That about says it all.
anybody know where Gary Condit was last night?
At Dinosaur Adventure Land, visitors can make their own Grand Canyon replica with sand and read a sign deriding textbooks for teaching that the Colorado River formed the canyon over millions of years: "This is clearly not possible. The top of the Grand Canyon is 4,000 feet higher than where the river enters the canyon! Rivers do not flow up hill!"
The obvious age of the Grand Canyon was a pivotal point in convincing skeptical 19th century Americans of the great age of the world. And, here's the answer to the above question:
"The Grand, or later, Colorado River was there before the mountains. The earth rose up more slowly than the fast-moving river could wash it away. D'oh!"
chris/tx
now come on, paul, juan and al franken all owned a townhouse in DC in the early 70s and let Kerry crash there after he threw his medals away.
Please.
Souter dissed my pappy, so I sent my boys over for a beat down.
MARS, BITCH!!!
Hope all the self-appointed arbiters of "sanity" (the German variety, in which you refuse to admit new facts into your understanding of current events) pay attention after people finally expose all the things Bush was doing sixty years from now.
Let's clarify some terms.
"Conspiracy theories" are incredible because they have no evidence, are unlikely and are used by racists to try to trick others into racism.
The case against Bush is
(1) not a theory, and if we dropped from it those parts that are speculation about horrors to come, we would still be left with things he already has been allowed to do,
(2) is supported at disturbing frequency with
_(a) fact, with
_(b) conspicuous gaps of information _no legitimate administration would _care to classify, and with
_(c) numerous authorities who embody _the very definition of credibility _and are often Republicans (as with _Zinni and we think Clarke, et al),
(3) is not being driven by any major racist group, and if it did emerge than someone was plagiarizing some of the case as part of their agenda against the Weather-Controlling Jews, this would do absolutely nothing to the case itself,
(a)(unless you believe all these _people coming out against party and _friends and in some cases forty _years of service are all Nazis. _Which David Brooks does. You wanna _be like David Brooks?)
(4) it's perfectly logical. Wealthy bastards do the same colonial screw-the-poor (the poor soldier, the poor at home and the poor little brown brothers) shit they've always defined themselves by. What is out of the ordinary here? The most fantastic flaunting of diplomatic establishment and international norms have already been allowed to happen.
It's not a "theory" that PNAC/Office of Special Plans wanted to insert themselves into the Pentagon and start an unnecessary war of aggression-that's what they already did. It's not a theory that blacks were prevented from voting-we got the memos and the company that did it freely admitted this in a Florida Senate committee hearing.
Exactly what is theoretical about this? We know they're Nazis. Comparing Clinton's lazy but standard suthun corruption to things we know Bush has already done is perverse.
Steve in CO:
It's been done, baby. One of the more amazing things that one sees in Chartres Cathedral is the relic around which it was built--the veil that the Virgin was supposed to have worn when giving birth to Jesus of Nazareth. ("It could have happened!") There are hundreds of other magificent religious-cultural heritage sites that were built around similarly flimsy trinkets, but most of the trinkets have been stolen, burned, or whatever. Chartes just has kept its. I'm quite sure that some forest in the Middle East was cut down in order to get all the pieces of the True Cross that were sold to Crusaders.
Campaign $$$ Totals/Details:
George W Bush
John Kerry
BTW, Brian, your black robe and duck scenario was amusing, especially when I pictured a rubber duckie falling out of the pocket.
god we are all talking like wingnuts and freepers in here....
mookster
...
Reply 16 - Posted by: mrduc, 5/1/2004 9:05:44 AM
Please do not feel stupid, #4. News personalities, like Koppel, are glibly lying snakes, and they have made their sizeable living for years by being good at disguising lies and seamlessly spoon-feeding them to an until recently, unsuspecting American public.
Thanks to Miss Lucianne, Rush, Matt Drudge, and others, we are not being taken in as easily as we once were. You, I, and the rest of us here, are so lucky to have this site to read the TRUTH for ourselves, and share our opinions with each other
I hate to go off topic but I think this is big. Atrios - please start a thread on the Iraqi prisoner torture story!
This is amazing. On 4/20/04 an Iraqi prison was attacked with over a dozen mortars. 22 prisoners were killed and over 90 injured. No reports of coalition forces being injured or killed. At the time I thought that it was strange that, as the WaPost and Fox reported, suspected Iraqi insurgents had purposely killed suspected Iraqi insurgents. Then with my tin foil hat in place I thought to myself. We killed them - either out of frustration with events in Faluja or to cover up something. My wife said, "You're nuts."
Guess what. The prison was Abu Ghraib. The same one where the tortures occurred! Also this happened one week before the 60 Minutes II broadcast but ONE WEEK AFTER MINUTES INFORMED THE PENTAGON THAT THEY HAD THE ABU GHRAIB STORY.
This amazingly important and I don't believe that no one as far as I have seen has made this connection.
Don't get me wrong. Iraqi insurgents still could be the culprits. But in light of what we now know this attack could very well be a MERCY KILLING. Also the 22 dead could have included prisoners tortured to death by our guys. Conversely, coalition forces could have shelled the prison in order to cover up the extent of war crimes there that were about to be revealed by CBS to the world.
In either case the deaths of these 22 prisoners is blood on our hands.
Finally even though the WaPost characterized the injured and killed prisoners as being insurgents stories in the Guardian quote our guys as saying that some people held in this prison were not processed for 60 days and no one really knew if they were bad guys at all.
jr - Nothing like reading the freepers on a slow news day to put a smile on your face.
Re Paul, Juan, and Al's townhouse - You left out Clinton, he had to be involved somehow. Maybe he handled the booty calls.
You all are making a lot of jokes about this, but this really freaks me out. If you have been reading Orcinus' blog, he has been warning of impending physical violence by right wing semi-extremists. The rhetoric of the right, Coulter, Robertson, and the crowd, is getting really scary, and we can laugh them off as a bunch of nut jobs, but this rhetoric does have an effect on their followers. You have to realize the level of hatred that the christrian right has for the liberals on the supreme court. They see them as public enemy number one. I am trying really hard not to jump to any conclusions about this, but if it a little fascist attack (and not intimidation to get him to vote a certain way, just flat out hatred for people who don't see the world as you do), I am really scared for our country.
Come on, insurgents are always attacking prisons. Prisons are all about freedom, and THEY hate freedom.
You left out Clinton
Souter was struck repeatedly about the head and shoulders an attacker wielding a clenis®
Somebody said earlier, "I'm glad these guys can go out in public like normal people."
Well, Scalia, when he goes out in public, demands that nobody videotapes him making public comments. And he has a bunch of goons to back him up.
Strange defilnition of "normal"
Still think that they should have somebody in custody, for chrssakes. Where was the security?
And where are our noble reporters? Doesn't anybody do the bloody Washington police beat? Let's goooooo! Bring me the head of a Brownshirt or have Souter tell me it was a simple mugging.
Tom
Amnesty is calling for independant investigations.You have made a believeable point.I wonder if the American people would even want an investigation,I know I would welcome it.
THere is more to the story than just a few isolated soldiers being stupid.Busk knew months ago,why are we just now hearing about this.How many other prisioners are being treated inhumanely?
I doubt we will find out,because the answers would,assinate the will and character of this country.
We are stuck with our tinfoil hats.
Its 2:30 p.m. central standard time. Have you read your New Yorker yet?
http://tinyurl.com/2mxp4
(Seymour Hersh artilce on prisoner abuse)
short excerpt...
A fifty-three-page report, obtained by The New Yorker, written by Major General Antonio M. Taguba and not meant for public release, was completed in late February. Its conclusions about the institutional failures of the Army prison system were devastating. Specifically, Taguba found that between October and December of 2003 there were numerous instances of “sadistic, blatant, and wanton criminal abuses” at Abu Ghraib. This systematic and illegal abuse of detainees, Taguba reported, was perpetrated by soldiers of the 372nd Military Police Company, and also by members of the American intelligence community.
maybe i'm being naive, but isn't being a supreme court justice a hard job? don't you have to read depositions and briefs and stuff? 9:00 is probably when he gets home.
to add to the mugged/arrested motif:
liberals feel guilty for their posessions;
conservatives feel that they deserve everything they steal.
chris/tx
sorry to disappoint. Bill was over in London at the time, smoking/not smoking mary jane and getting a european copyright for the clenis®.
chris/tx sez:
Re Paul, Juan, and Al's townhouse - You left out Clinton, he had to be involved somehow. Maybe he handled the booty calls.
It's the same townhouse in which Hitlery murdered Vince Foster.
[/freeper]
.
maybe i'm being naive, but isn't being a supreme court justice a hard job?
Some Justices do little other than to ensure that their clerks are adhering to the proper ideological line. Others, take a more hands on approach. My guess is that Souter works very hard.
Well, each Justice has a team of ivy league clerks digesting material for them. So, no, Souter was just out looking for a BJ. /sarcasm>
Thanks, pie. Don't forget to tip your waitress.
For those reading that OT post about the creationist theme parks, notice how the one watchdog group head stated that creationists like the one that created that theme park stopped going the mainstream route. I was surprised to hear this. It is an admission which they purposely never make because it’s an outright admission that they’re always the loser in any debate where facts, logic, and fairness prevail. But they, in their sore-loser cowardly way, decide like every christian through the centuries before them to chose to try and trick people instead.
A clear admission that fair & logical discourse, courteous discussion, and facts have never been their strength.
What bothers me is that people take their children to science centers because they want their kids to learn, but then get upset when the facts don't match their ideology. So they go someplace where the facts are given secondary status to the ideology..
If there was ever a better way of proving that these people are unobjective and undeserving of our trust when holding positions of power or influence then I never saw one.
Chances are they'll regret giving that interview and explain it away as a liberal ambush. More often than naught it makes them look bad as long as people who aren't part of the WJI are the ones holding the interview.
Folks this is going to get worse and worse until it ends up in a religious war.
I can’t wait.
MYOB'
.
On another topic. Has anyone else noticed that the flag used by the Fallujah Brigade is the Saddam Hussein version and not the George Bush version.
A friend in Baghdad tells me that rumor has it that many elements of Saddam's government will be reinstalled to "control the Iraqi people."
chris/tx,
oh, yeah, that Clinton connection to the townhouse!
Its 2:30 p.m. central standard time. Have you read your New Yorker yet?
Yes, it was a very interesting read. Based on the article, I have a feeling that "MI" is going to be the "SS" of the 21st century.
Duane, I did notice that. The people of Fallujah are basically calling a vanquishing of the Americans. However, some Shia are very concerned about this.
Juan Cole is a "must read" today.
"Seymour Hersh of the New Yorker gives further evidence that these prison abuses were systemic and not the work of a few out of control privates. He quotes a report by Major General Antonio Taguba:
Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees; pouring cold water on naked detainees; beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair; threatening male detainees with rape; allowing a military police guard to stitch the wound of a detainee who was injured after being slammed against the wall in his cell; sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick, and using military working dogs to frighten and intimidate detainees with threats of attack, and in one instance actually biting a detainee.
In significant part these practices are a direct result of Rumsfeld policies--the Pentagon's kidnapping of unprepared reservists for long-term military duty in Iraq, supplemented by unregulated cowboy security firms. It has already been forgotten that some of the fighting around Najaf was done by US private security guards, who even deployed an attack helicopter! The rhetoric that all those who oppose the US presence in Iraq are "terrorists" also dehumanizes prisoners of war and implies that they are akin to the 9/11 hijackers, when in fact many of them are just neighborhood boys who took up a gun to defend their city quarter from what they saw as a foreign incursion.
I really wonder whether, with the emergence of these photos, the game isn't over for the Americans in Iraq. Is it realistic, after the bloody siege of Fallujah and the Shiite uprising of early April, and in the wake of these revelations, to think that the US can still win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi Arab public?"
The Washington Post story deemed it appropriate to include this detail, which is not in the CNN or NYTimes stories: "Souter, a bachelor, was running alone when he was attacked." Did anyone else think it odd to mention that fact? Doesn't it seem as though WaPo is trying to hint at a gay bashing motive?
anthrax to Daschle; look at how those perceived as Liberal got real US Army anthrax and the "control group" Rightists got foot powder.
What if 6o Minutes II had aired there story on Abu Ghraib prison the week before it was shelled instead of the week after? Would the attack have still occurred?
A friend in Baghdad tells me that rumor has it that many elements of Saddam's government will be reinstalled to "control the Iraqi people."
Could the Bushies have executed a more inept handling of this invasion?
sorry,
the people of fallujah are calling the pulling out of the Americans a great vanquishing. However, some Shia are concerned about the reemergence of a Sunni Republican Guard general and apparent re-bathification.
Bush Brownshirt Brigade
First the liberal judges, then the liberal congressmen, then the liberal media, and then
you and I.
They are determined NOT TO LOSE this election.
rumor has it that many elements of Saddam's government will be reinstalled
The origonal post war plan called for removing the top couple levels of SH's govt and leaving much of the rest intact. Much like post war Germany. Now it is FUBAR, kinda late to be reverting to plan one. Desparate decision making at this point.
However, some Shia are concerned about the reemergence of a Sunni Republican Guard general and apparent re-bathification.
By now, the Iraqis must just be delighted that the U.S. decided to *liberate* them. The rest of the world is probably just as happy.
Way to go, george.
Tom,
I don't know necessarily what to make of your suggestion; however, there's two things that have really gotten my goat (no, my goat has not had any realtions with that man Kaus)and which you may find helpful in your thinking.
1) The Daily Mirror, in its story about prisoner abuse by the Brits, states that a looter, not a combatant, was tortured for eight hours and then dumped out a truck and left for dead. The New Yorker story also says that many, many of the people in the Abu Ghraib prison were civilians.
2) Over at Juan Cole, he excerpts a Rueters story that quotes Arabs who are angry at the U.S., and an editor of a paper from Egypt stated that for muslims, it would be better to be killed than to be sexually abused in the manner that they were.
Is it just my impression or is Juan Cole becoming a pundit? He's supposed to be academic and objectively studious. He should wind down the tone and lay off the "the game is over for the Americans" rhetoric.
There's plenty of places to go to for opinion, punditry, rhetoric, and venting. I prefer Juan Cole to be a source of facts and informed analysis.
"That nigga voted against my father!"
- Black Bush
Souter had better not capitulate to this attack.
After all, you can't negotiate with terrorists.
(unless, of course, you start calling them "insurgents" instead)
chris/tx
the original "plan" also put Ahmed Chalabi at the top.
I don't know how many of you have been following Heisod's Jay Sevirin boycott, but one of Severin's advertisers, Mark Lamoureux, is a first class MBF. He wrote Heisod this nasty email:
"You, Sir, are an Idiot!! Anyone logging on to your stupid site probably couldn't buy a cup of coffee without bumming a dollar from someone who works, let alone a $5,000 Corian Countertop. Please do boycott my products you Moron.
Mark Lamoureux
I checked him out and posted the results in Heisod's comments:
Mark's an interesting guy. He likes to post to usenet groups like alt.torture, alt.bondage, and alt.personals.spanking.punishment--see: http://snipurl.com/62z9
Of course it could be another Mark Lamoureux who hails from MA and goes by the nick, mark696.
What is it with these wingers and their need to dominate people of color, anyway? From a post to alt.personals.spanking.punishment, http://snipurl.com/62za
From: "Mark"
Newsgroups: alt.personals.spanking.punishment
Subject: Black submissive
White Male, life - long dominant Master truly wants a submissive Black lady.
You will be my companion on the outside and my slut / whore in the bedroom.
Looking for a LTR. Can assist the right lady in relocating to New England
Master Mark
man it's totally lost. the iraqi thing i mean. it was wrong in the first place, but having done it, it might have worked out to some reasonable resolution. but the greed heads were/are in controll. like the proverbial monky fist in the cookie jar. with the "horror pics" and the rebaathification, it's just gone.
be interesting to see how the souter thing plays out.i lived outside the wash.d.c. area beautiful town, but there are some areas, well let's just say you would be safer walking thru fallujah. i saw 'the pelican brief' the other day, some how reminds me of all this nonsense. i hope there is some brave young soul trying to expose this secret cabal of power monkys, but this isn't a movie.
Happy International Labor Day, everbody!
magnum,
I don't agree about cole. His informed analysis is that these photos are a very big deal, and that he has concluded that the hearts/minds business is all but over. His post doesn't seem to me to betray informed analysis.
Well, Magnum, it is called Informed Comment. Maybe he can comment??
"The people of fallujah are calling the pulling out of the Americans a great vanquishing."
It's not a retreat! It's not a retreat! It's a RELOCATION OF FORCES! There's a BIG DIFFERENCE, Jack!
Now the lying, cowardly Chimp is making us look WEAK.
Fuck him.
Vote Kerry. He was IN the fuckin shit in Nam and he KNOWS what the hell war IS, bitches.
Souter is a liberal scumbag. However, I believe he should be impeached, not physically beaten.
Many fascists, like the scum of Freerepublic and the Jeebus worshippers, would like Souter dead.
Petey,
have you seen lucianne.com posts? They are hanging their heads in shame about the "troop relocation."
They wanted a Dresden campaign to defeat the "sub-humans" in fallujah very badly.
first wildly Likudite nuts forced an Iraq neutralization, then giving Iraqis an Israeli flag, then openly using Israeli tactics and talk about allowing in Israeli "advisors", then giving Sharon a blanket endorsement and kicking out any pretense of concern for Palestinians, then it turns out wild-eyed anti-Semite Iraqis are right about CACI intel mercenaries possibly "being" Jewish. From the Hersh article:
*
He further urged that a civilian contractor, Steven Stephanowicz, of CACI International, be fired from his Army job, reprimanded, and denied his security clearances for lying to the investigating team and allowing or ordering military policemen “who were not trained in interrogation techniques to facilitate interrogations by ‘setting conditions’ which were neither authorized” nor in accordance with Army regulations. “He clearly knew his instructions equated to physical abuse,” Taguba wrote. He also recommended disciplinary action against a second CACI employee, John Israel. (A spokeswoman for CACI said that the company had “received no formal communication” from the Army about the matter.)
“I suspect,” Taguba concluded, that Pappas, Jordan, Stephanowicz, and Israel “were either directly or indirectly responsible for the abuse at Abu Ghraib,” and strongly recommended immediate disciplinary action.
*
Are we deliberately tying to stir up violent Arab anti-Semitism even more? Did I not see that memo, the one that said "let's get people over there as crazy as possible, let's bomb their mosques and hammer mezzuzahs onto their faces"?!
All anyone can talk about today are those pictures... those terrible pictures. There is so much rage and frustration.
Riverbend
These pictures are a *very* big deal, just look at the front pages of Arab newspapers. Torturing imprisoned Arabs is bad enough, the nude pictures takes it to a new level in the Muslim world.
patriot boy that's sick, but too true. please don't spy on me.
Corian counter tops = more fake plastic things for the rich.
I still like Cole, but a few times lately his tone has been, well, shrill.
A right-winger coming across his site is just going to write him off as a an anti-Bushist (or more likely anti-American in their view).
HOW CAN YOU NOT BE SHRILL? WILL YOU WAIT TO BE SHRILL UNTIL AFTER YOU GET DRAFTED? THE "REASONABLE" ONES ARE TANGENTIALLY IN ON IT, LIKE ANY RULING-CLASS ENDORSEMENT OF ANY ATROCITY IN HISTORY!
Any media reporting a racial description of Souter's attackers?
"And that he has concluded that the hearts/minds business is all but over."
Just because of a perverted cutie smoking a Marlboro cig as she plays bang-bang finger-gun with Arab dong and sniffs a pile of naked male POW asses as her fucking boyfriend looks on?
You want justice?
Let the Iraqis try those little perverts.
World-wide Exclusive. Must credit jr.
Souter Perps Caught
http://tinyurl.com/ypmne
jr - the sexual nature of this entire torture scenario has really bothered me because it was obvious to me immediately that by stripping these Muslim men and humiliating them sexually, the people who did this had done something worse than if they had just killed them. Consider just how modest Muslims are. And that there were American women soldiers involved in this has made it much more of an outrage than it would be otherwise, though it would still be an unforgivable outrage even if there were no American women involved.
We are well and truly screwed with the Muslims of the world.
Souter is a liberal scumbag. However, I believe he should be impeached, not physically beaten.
What do you think he's done that would justify impeachment?
NYT reports that Souter was likely on his way to jog at a military base near his home.
hmm...and for "security reasons" they ain't revealing where the attack occured.
hmm. Sounds like they aren't too eager to recruit help from anybody nearby...
Vote Kerry. He was IN the fuckin shit in Nam and he KNOWS what the hell war IS, bitches.Petey Wheatstraw
i like the way petey says things. John Kerry Kicks ASS!!!
little george is a 'vulcanized' rotten ass, pissy little punk.
i'm not really into the physical violence thing, but maybe the best way to decide this election would be to just have the two of them go toe to toe. i know who my money is on. ralph can hold the bets.
What the hell is 'corian' anyway? Ground up rock chips mixed with acrylic. Probably causes cancer.
Nothing beats solid granite for kitchen and bathroom counters. Chop up that coke and snort it up directly off the surface. Mmmm-mmm.
Jr - I agree with you.
The mortar attack on the prison was probably a mercy killing to stop the abuse. Abuse offensive to any decent human being - but designed to be especially repugnant to Muslims.
All in all I really am not impressed with the Brits and I think Tony Blair is the moral equivalent of Colin Powell, which is to say that he is a sad low-life, but occasionally one gets some brilliant clarity out of a Brit. This excerpt from a BBC article gets it exactly right...
Meanwhile former foreign secretary Lord Hurd said the situation in Iraq was in danger of spiralling out of control.
"In Iraq we're in a nosedive. Things are happening which were entirely predictable and predicted.
"An army of liberation, particularly a British/American one, turns within hours into an army of occupation."
Scary. We don't need to be losing any of the good Justices. I'm sure glad he's okay. You have to wonder if it was totally random or not. You have to hope it was totally random.
- Joel
----
Nightmares For Sale - You're Damn Right I'm Angry!
Tena wrote "...the sexual nature of this entire torture scenario has really bothered me because it was obvious to me immediately that by stripping these Muslim men and humiliating them sexually, the people who did this had done something worse than if they had just killed them."
Nice that you're keeping a sense of perspective about this. It's probably what we should do to convicted death row felons. Strip them and make them arrange a human pyramid. After all, its worse than killing them.
With all the bitching about "liberal supreme court justices" that goes on on the right, it wouldn't shock me at all if this turned out to be winger inspired.
But then I'm cynical these days.
On another topic. Has anyone else noticed that the flag used by the Fallujah Brigade is the Saddam Hussein version and not the George Bush version duane
i saw a pic of Gen. Saleh today. wears the old republican gaurd uniform. or as billmon called it "meet the new boss, same as the old boss, literally"
tom,
your argument is interesting about a mercy killing attack. The one thing I know to be true about the reality in Iraq is that we Americans, whether stateside, in the green zone, or on the front line, have no fucking clue about the situation.
another thing about your last post is interesting, that is whether or not these war criminals were completely clueless or did they engage in these degrading acts precisely b/c they knew they would especially offend muslim sensibilities.
four legs good - anyone who is not cynical these days hasn't been paying attention.
I wonder if this is connected with Pat Robertson's call to pray for something to happen to a Justice?
Millions of religious fanatics listening, one of them must have gotten the message - that's how it works in Iran.
Which way does Souter vote on Roe v. Wade?
Jeebus! Juan Cole is a professor of history and the middle east. He is an expert, ya know? So he's liable to piss off some right wingers - big fucking deal. The man is telling it like it is and anyone who doesn't like his tone is free to avoid reading his site. But bitching about his point of view when he obviously knows whereof he speaks is tantamount to being anti-intellectual.
There is nothing shrill about Juan Cole. Nothing whatsoever, and there never has been. He has one of the most even-handed views on the specific facts out of Iraq that can be found anywhere.
Okay, EIB.....funny as hell, now that I know it was a parody.
Secondly: I'll let this serve as a reminder to myself to double-check sources before I, ehh, respond to ....um, stuff.
Mm-hmm.
Yup.
I'll get my coat.
agentalbert - fuck you. you display absolutely no understanding of Muslims, though I'm surprised that you show such little understanding of males in general.
There are things worse than death, you idiot.
Karen Hughes: "Well, I was shocked of course. After all, Justice Souter is member of the high court, even if his fellow justices usually disagree with him. But, you know, as a pro-abortion activist, Justice Souter has a lot in common with others who disrepect life and freedom. So it's not surprising he was in their company, which is not to excuse what happened to him at all, just to say that in life there are consequences. The president joins me in wishing him a full recovery".
It's probably what we should do to convicted death row felons. Strip them and make them arrange a human pyramid. After all, its worse than killing them.
It's worse for a Muslim.
these photographs, coming as they do on a wave of entirely preventable "confirmations" of the "Zionist world government" insanity endemic there (but understand that the pictures are this bad in their own right), are enough to "require" a second IX/XI, a stream of attempts from various sources, unprecedented terror group cooperation, and a clean straight death for Arab-US trust."
Consider the myths we have gone out of our way to confirm:
-Jews are making the US stop perceived Arab threats to Israel
-Jews (sadists) like to torture Arabs and do so under the guise of interrogations
-the US wants to conquer the Arab world in a new Crusade and eliminate Islam
-work together with Western infidels and look what you get
smooth move, jumpsuit monkey!
agentalbert,
I suspect that you might be incapable of understading complex issues, but to a fudementalist Muslim, being sexually humiliated by a woman could be considered to be worse than death. This is especially true if it worked its way into his reputation.
On abuse. Checkout billmon as well. Someone commented there -- this is the week we lost the war .
Every war is baleful at many levels. Sometimes one is anyway forced. But this sounds more and more like a sorry mistake.
[Juan Cole] has one of the most even-handed views on the specific facts out of Iraq that can be found anywhere.
That's probably the problem.
I remember, occassionally, an old Peanuts cartoon. Lucy is chasing Linus who, finally cornered, starts to reason with his older sister.
After listening for a few minutes, she slugs him, and walks away explaining to another Peanuts character: "I had to hit him quick. He was beginning to make sense."
in abv post, line was truncated: should have read - 'Karen Hughes Press Office - (parody of).
I suspect that you might be incapable of understading complex issues, but to a fudementalist Muslim, being sexually humiliated by a woman could be considered to be worse than death. This is especially true if it worked its way into his reputation.
Hell, I know a lot of Xian Texas good ol' boys who'd be humiliated badly by that treatment, whether the jailers were male or female.
Saleh, soon to be hailed as "the Liberator of Fallujah", is definitely the new Saddam. He is the crystalizing agent for the Sunni's.
The only question is will he fight the Shias or join with them.
Whatever happens, we will not hear much about him for awhile and then all of sudden, he'll be all over the place.
Or he may be assasinated.
Cue "Monty Python and the Holy Grail":
"Run away!!!!"
being sexually humiliated by a woman could be considered to be worse than death
Oooh baby!! I'm joining the Iraqi resistance!
though I'm surprised that you show such little understanding of males in general.
Tena, nice one.
atrios,
I'm always struck by the intelligence of commentators on your threads - invariably someone has already put my thoughts into words and much more articulately than yours truly. Thanks, Philalethes, for hitting the proverbial nail on the head: "Why couldn't it have been Scalia?" My thoughts exactly when I read atrios' entry!
"Have you seen lucianne.com posts?"
FUCK those fucking right-wing bloodfarts! They're just a buncha pud-pounding chickenhawks who think their shit smells better than Arab shit does. Stupid cumrags: shit is shit, and they're fulla it. They were in Iraq right now? Their pants would match their fucking shirts in about five seconds flat -- BROWN, bitches. Deepest, darkest brown.
Fucking chickenhawks. I hate 'em.
And so should you.
"Why couldn't it have been Scalia?"
And who made the equally good observation that Scalia doesn't jog?
cheney_usa,
Sounds like a heavyweight match between Gen Saleh and Ayatollah Sistani!
Want to place any bets?
BTW, major props on your "meeting". Brilliant.
the commanding officer at Abu Ghuraib would not have been arrested if there had not been something systemic here. Some of the blame is being put on intelligence field officers who encouraged clueless young reservists to soften up the prisoners for interrogation.Juan Cole
herein lies the true story. the pictures are just the proof of the ice berg. this story is not over, we will hear more. of course i am sure accurate or inaccurate, the arab world has already heard more, much more.
whether or not these war criminals were completely clueless or did they engage in these degrading acts precisely b/c they knew they would especially offend muslim sensibilities.
Didn't you read Hersh's New Yorker piece? Hell yeah they knew:
The picture he draws of Abu Ghraib is one in which Army regulations and the Geneva conventions were routinely violated, and in which much of the day-to-day management of the prisoners was abdicated to Army military-intelligence units and civilian contract employees. Interrogating prisoners and getting intelligence, including by intimidation and torture, was the priority."
We'll thats one way to try and stack the court with right wing zealots, take the moderates out by hook or crook.
ABB&B!!!
OT, but got a kick out of this:
Bremer criticized Bush on terrorism before attacks
WASHINGTON (AP) -- L. Paul Bremer, the U.S. administrator in Iraq, said in a speech six months before the September 11, 2001 attacks that the Bush administration was "paying no attention" to terrorism.
"What they will do is stagger along until there's a major incident and then suddenly say, 'Oh my God, shouldn't we be organized to deal with this,"' said Bremer at McCormick Tribune Foundation conference on terrorism on February 26, 2001.
Bremer spoke at the conference shortly after he chaired the National Commission on Terrorism, a bipartisan body formed by the Clinton administration to examine U.S. counterterrorism policies...
At the speech, delivered in Wheaton, Illinois, Bremer, whose diplomatic jobs included a stint as ambassador-at-large for counterterrorism, said a war against terrorism would be unending.
"If you call it a war, you suggest there's a victory," he said. "I would argue there is no final victory in the war against terrorism any more than there is in the so-called war against crime."
Was that the Ghost of Bill Hicks?
Tena, read the Juan Cole bits posted by patriotby a bit above. His tone is not objective. It's great if he can piss off right-wingers by being 'even-handed' and factual but if he speaks like a pundit the wingers will click elsewhere.
Second comment: Souter was indeed appointed by Poppa Bush and I distinctly remember various writers for the Weekly Standard driving home the point that this 'mistake' should not be repeated by Bush fils now that he was President. Seeing whom the Unelected Fraud has appointed to various Courts he has taken notice.
I agree with the Frenchman named Tena. I had naked men lie in top of me when I was put in jail by the tax gestapo. I can still feel their hot panting breath on the back of my neck and the way their facial stubble dug so delightfully into my skin.
The only thing that keeps me sane is my belief that they were only attempting to place a tracking device in my behind. It was very painful, but the more they tried, the happier I was, because I knew that the hours of penetration after penetration meant that they were having a hard time putting the transmitter into place.
I still smile when I think about it after all those years.
I do think that abusing Iraqi males sexually can be worse than death for them. Besides, don't they relish death at the hands of infidels? Dosen't that make them martyrs or something? I remember some article that came out after those 2 Brits were released. They said that they had some menstruating woman put the blood on their faces and other cruel things and that was especially bad for a Muslim because of his faith. I guess its an extra bonus that sexual abuse doesn't leave any physical scars and so can be harder to prove (unless you take pictures - OOPS!)
Petey,
only if you tell me what you really think!
"Why couldn't it have been Sca[t]lia" is wrong for so many reasons, not tenable for a moment, and not least because it opens us to comparisons to freepers. Scatlia should at worst be impeached or should recuse himself on many asscoverings, but for a number of reasons that ain't happening, folks, no more than the entirely Republican-controlled government is going to impeach their own party head.
pie - thanks, but that one was almost too easy.
Every single nonMuslim American male I've ever known would consider the kind of treatment the Iraqi prisoners received at the hands of women to be a soul-crushing humiliation. That these were Muslim men takes it to a level that is beyond what nonMuslims are able to comprehend. But as I said, every male whom I have ever known would just about rather die than be seen in such photographs. So any comment to the contrary is just absurd if a male is making it.
The whole abuse of the Iraqi prisoners thing is bad, but it reminded me of something:
GWB's antics during frat initiations, including using a redhot coathanger to brand the bare behinds of future "Pioneers" and "Rangers".
And the circle is complete.
And David E.: A gay-bashing? Yesterday I heard on Mike Signorile's Sirius show that these bashings have increased. Hate speech?
Want to place any bets?
Master David, Lionheart, and Pollard's Vision...
Go away Helga. Isn't there a cross burnig you need to attend?
OT. It's prom night, and there's a stretch hummer parked across the street.
Souter is single and is a bookish, intellectual. This week we will start hearing the "lifestyle" questions.
I'm going out looking for lumber for the barricades, we're going to need them.
Sorry Helga. I thought you were someone else.
Maybe it was a drunk GWB, yelling "mano a mano"!
"The picture he draws of Abu Ghraib is one in which Army regulations and the Geneva conventions were routinely violated, and in which much of the day-to-day management of the prisoners was abdicated to Army military-intelligence units and civilian contract employees. Interrogating prisoners and getting intelligence, including by intimidation and torture, was the priority."
What's that fucking quote by that fucking Kraut philospher? The one with the FUCKING HUGE PUSSY TICKLER MUSTACHE above his upper lip? God, WHAT'S HIS NAME, bitches?!? You'd know him if you saw him! He's like the fucking FONZE of philosphers. All the college kids think it's really fucking cool to carry his fucking books. Anyway, fucker said something like this:
"Battle not with monsters, least ye become a monster."
I think that's what's happening in Iraq, bitches.
That these were Muslim men takes it to a level that is beyond what nonMuslims are able to comprehend.
Seriously, I think that the vast number of incarcerated males that are raped, and sexually brutalized each year in our jails can probably comprehend it with no problem.
"What's the frequency, David?"
That stuff they did to the prisoners wasn't too bad. My uncle did that to me and I turned out fine. Long as I have batteries for my vaccu-jack anal-izer and my special videos.
Bennett - If Juan is not "objective" enough for you then don't read him. But in point of fact, Prof. Cole deals with facts and his deep understanding of Muslims to analyze those facts. So if his analysis of those facts goes against this administration's policies then I assume you believe he is biased. That is exactly the standpoint from which entities like Sinclair Broadcasting make pronouncements that say generally that the truth is political. It is not. It is the truth. People with agendas read the truth and interpret it politically. Juan Cole isn't doing that. You are.
Back aways there was a post that the Souter attackers were caught and confessed to being after drug money... they could be telling the truth...but perhaps not the whole truth...they may have been after the drug money they were offered by thugco's friends for roughing up/giving a message to Souter. By the way...9pm to 1pm = 4 hrs for "minor injuries"? Understandable for you &I (fill out paperwork and waiting room = 3.5 hours) but for a Supremo?
"vaccu-jack"
HAHAHAHA! Man's TRUE best friend, bitches.
Oops, I'm not Bill Bennett anymore.
Anyway, while Bill would think that sexual humiliation at the hands of a woman is far from being a fate worse than death, Dubya and Kerry suffered it at the hands of men to join their frat club. Dubya probably enjoyed it.
I was listening to some loser lawyers on the Glen Mitchell Show in Dallas NPR and they started with the "best legal system in the world" crap.
How can anyone say that with the number of people we have in prison?
They talked about law education, how important it is to read, write and think like a lawyer.
It never occurred to them that thinking like a lawyer was the biggest problem with our legal system.
Some guy asked, "Should I work before law school?" and their answer was "you'll learn how to interact with secretaries" (!!!!!!). No comment on learning about how the real world operates.
During the hour they only mentioned "clients" once, and it had to do with getting paid.
Rape rooms. Torture chambers. Political oppression.
My god.
OT but another beating story= The Pentagon tried to get CBS to NOT run the Iraqi torture pictures. CBS held off for two weeks. Bush NOW expressing outrage is BS. He knew about this weeks ago veritas
yeah, but if they'd of shown the pics. it would have made bombing the shit (i mean playing paddy cakes with)out of fallujah, untenable. i sent CBS an email telling them they should get the goverments dick out of their ass. not really i was nicer but sadly that is the situation with our "free press" i could walk away from the net right now, leave the news on 24/7, and hear none of this. which might be a good idea 'cause i am smoking way too many cigs.
BUSH IS NOT DISGUSTED, HE'S DISGUSTING!!!
Gee -- all these "liberals" getting attacked and anthraxed...
The attackers needed drug money?
I thought Rush had plenty.
Well, Cole does get shrill when he talks about Sharon. Which I don't mind. He went nuts over the Yasin murder. What he's really valuable for in my opinion are his translations of Arabic press and the links and guest commentary from colleagues. People know when he crosses into editorializing and they can stop reading at that point.
Tena! I see the debutante crew (no offense to any debutantes or crewmembers of course) have arrived on this thread, merrily making sure that we know what is appropriate, what is not, what is correctly balanced and what is improper and unsuitable. We've been beating them back on the Canada thread, but they seem to be endlessly present, they and their rulebooks and scorecards. Juan Cole is allowed to make judgements, that may be in conflict with those of Mr. Bennett, because Juan Cole is an honest-to-God expert who's earned the right to do so. He knows more about the topic. His knowledge is greater than that of most people. Get it? Equality of vote, representation, government and susceptibility to criminal prosecution does not automatically assume that everybody is equally knowledgeable.
Feh. The same people who think that 'cause they read a textbook once they're just as able to talk about history as an historian.
General Karpinski speaks to the NYT.
http://tinyurl.com/2bvbu
Is Cellblock 1A the Room 619 of the Iraq War?
Glenn Mitchell is a right wing hack. I refuse to listen to him anymore. He has gone right over the cliff in the last year. I'll listen to his Christmas Blockbuster show, and that is it. Otherwise, he's a waste of time.
Tena, Glen gives superficial a bad name.
"Souter is among the youngest justices and is a regular jogger.
"He is not the first justice to be injured while exercising. Justice Stephen Breyer (news - web sites) was thrown from his bicycle several years ago and suffered minor injuries."
Like what the fuck does that have to do with anything? Getting the shit beat out of you does not equate to falling off your goddamn bicycle!!!
You've got to learn to read between the lines, Chimp. Breyer was thrown from his bicycle. So who threw him?
Here's the top of the NYT story...
General Suggests Abuses at Iraq Jail Were Encouraged
By PHILIP SHENON
WASHINGTON, May 1 — The Army Reserve general whose military police officers were photographed as they mistreated Iraqi prisoners said Saturday that she had been "sickened" by the pictures and had known nothing about the sexual humiliation and other abuse until weeks later.
But the officer, Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski of the 800th Military Police Brigade, said the special high-security cellblock at the Abu Ghraib prison, west of Baghdad, where the abuses took place had been under the tight control of a separate group of military intelligence officers who had so far avoided any public blame.
In her first public comments about the brutality — which drew wide attention and condemnation after photographs documenting it were broadcast Wednesday night by CBS News — General Karpinski said that while the reservists involved were "bad people" and deserved punishment, she suspected they were acting with the encouragement, if not at the direction, of military intelligence units that ran the special cellblock used for interrogation...
Interesting.
The attackers escaped without a trace. Nothing like a hit-and-run attack on a government official. Kinda like testing the waters.
Because Souter isn't held in high regard, all we'll hear is lip service, but to action. However, if Scalia, Thomas or Renquiest had been attacked, then the terror alert would have gone to the highest level possible and a dragnet set to find the attackers and secret service agents assigned to protect all the justices that count.
Isn't a Republician democracy just wonderful!
regards
.
...where the abuses took place had been under the tight control of a separate group of military intelligence officers who had so far avoided any public blame.
It will be interesting to see who actually gets nailed for this. The Boy King announces he's disgusted or whatever he said. Of course, the moron was kept out of the loop. Dickie, on the other hand, is guilty of crimes against humanity.
Mercs.
Kos was sooooooooooooo right.
Juan Cole is an honest-to-God expert who's earned the right to do so.
Worth repeating.
He is not just some frigg'in blogger that gets his news from the paper. He was in front of the a Senate committee for hearings on Iraq with Perle, and seemed to pretty much kick Perle's lying ass. As far as experts in the US on the ME, he is certianly in the top few. He states facts and opinions that many of us that have lived in the ME fully agree with. Shrill, I think not.
jr. that was a joke, i thought you had a scoop. what does GUCR stand for anyway? Gay Unctious Cocksucking Republicans? not that there is anything wrong with that.
LGF commenters tell us all we need to know about the meaning of democracy.
Arabs hate us. What's new? What they don't realize is how much we are beginning to hate them. We have tried everything to get them to see reality, but it always comes back to us. It's "our fault". We are not "sensitive" enough to their culture. We don't "understand their rage and anger" Personally, I have pretty much had it with them. Iraq is their chance to show the world that Arabs can actually create a functioning society. I doubt they can do it. I support the war but I am really beginning to think that Arab culture is incapable of change. Fuck 'em.
...
cheney_usa - Oh, good one about Glenn Mitchell - brilliant in fact. I think you ought to email that comment to him. I think his email addy is gms@npr.org. If I get mad enough at him someday I just might email that comment to him myself. I'll give you credit if I do.
Another lGFer
Having been rejected for military service myself once, all I can tell you is that the services do the best they can to weed out the loonies.
I support the war but I am really beginning to think that Arab culture is incapable of change.
This guy nails it. If only he had come to this realization before Bush did his thang.
Stupid, ignorant morons. I'm ashamed of these people.
Ugly Americans.
charley,
Thanks so much for your response! It took over an hour for someone to comment!
World-wide Exclusive. Must credit jr.
Souter Perps Caught
http://tinyurl.com/ypmne
Having been rejected for military service myself once, all I can tell you is that the services do the best they can to weed out the loonies.
OMG.
BTW, the brownshirts can start apologizing to Kos any fucking time now:
...General Taguba saved his harshest words for the military-intelligence officers and private contractors. He recommended that Colonel Thomas Pappas, the commander of one of the M.I. brigades, be reprimanded and receive non-judicial punishment, and that Lieutenant Colonel Steven Jordan, the former director of the Joint Interrogation and Debriefing Center, be relieved of duty and reprimanded. He further urged that a civilian contractor, Steven Stephanowicz, of CACI International, be fired from his Army job, reprimanded, and denied his security clearances for lying to the investigating team and allowing or ordering military policemen “who were not trained in interrogation techniques to facilitate interrogations by ‘setting conditions’ which were neither authorized” nor in accordance with Army regulations. “He clearly knew his instructions equated to physical abuse,” Taguba wrote. He also recommended disciplinary action against a second CACI employee, John Israel. (A spokeswoman for CACI said that the company had “received no formal communication” from the Army about the matter.)
“I suspect,” Taguba concluded, that Pappas, Jordan, Stephanowicz, and Israel “were either directly or indirectly responsible for the abuse at Abu Ghraib,” and strongly recommended immediate disciplinary action.
Oh look at the student body of Howard University these days. Looks pretty darn divers to me.
OT: Anyone notice how it's been a loooong time since W was seen with his Paw? The Boston Globe had it good back in Oct.
http://tinyurl.com/re74
With recent events, all said back then would be in spades today. Historians may conclude that the Iraq disaster was a horrible 'perfect storm' of Neocon madness and W's mano-o-mano unfinished business with dad. Yikes.
We can all rest easy tonight that Justice Souter was not in a small plane flying over mid America....
Just a warning shot, and I am not surprised. These thugs know no bounds and respect no one when their power is about to be threatened.
As the days pass and the scandals, the war crimes, and threats to our society pile sky high, our media is obsessing why Kerry has to have someone make him a peanut butter sandwich, Bush rants on like an incoherent Jesus freak saving the souls of the infidels, and the Iraqi war is about to burst out into WWIII, I am very frightened for our nation.
pie,
it seems pretty obvious that Bush and the military won't want to have any trials about this in the open. Same thing with the Saddam Hussein trial.
They fear that America will find out the truth.
Saddam: Hello, Ambassador Glaspie. Now, when I told you that I might have an interest in claiming Kuwait, what was your response?
Glaspie: Judge, must I answer that question? I do? Shit. I told you that the U.S. had no opinion about the situation.
Here is a demonstration of the deep corruption of the Washington press. This story was out in March, notice where and how it was buried: (posting in two parts)
Copyright 2004 The Washington Post
March 21, 2004 Sunday
SECTION: A Section; A21
HEADLINE: U.S. Soldiers Charged in Abuse of Iraqis
Six U.S. soldiers were criminally charged Saturday in the abuse and mistreatment of about 20 Iraqis at a military jail west of Baghdad. The charges, which include assault and sexual abuse, are among the most serious involving military detainees since the start of the war in Iraq one year ago.
[8 full paragraphs about the killings of two Iraqi journalists working for the al-Arabiya network]
The criminal charges announced Saturday resulted from an investigation into abuses at the Abu Ghraib prison ordered by Sanchez on Jan. 14.
The sprawling compound, which was the most notorious prison in Iraq during the rule of Saddam Hussein, holds about 1,425 of the roughly 9,500 Iraqis confined by the U.S. military. Human rights advocates have complained about harsh treatment of the detainees, who are suspected of supporting terrorism or insurgency.
"We are committed to treating all persons under coalition control with dignity, respect and humanity," Kimmitt said. "Coalition personnel are expected to act appropriately, humanely and in a manner consistent with the Geneva Conventions."
In January, Sanchez put 17 members of a military police unit at Abu Ghraib on paid leave pending separate criminal and administrative investigations. The soldiers, who included the six charged on Saturday, were given different assignments but remained in Iraq.
The administrative investigation had been completed, but its findings and recommendations were not yet approved and could not be released, Kimmitt said.
The criminal charges are conspiracy, dereliction of duty, cruelty and maltreatment, assault and indecent acts with another, the military's term for sexual abuse.
The penalties vary, but are serious. The maximum punishment for indecent acts, for example, is five years in prison, loss of all pay and a dishonorable discharge or dismissal.
Each soldier must have a preliminary hearing, known as an Article 32 hearing under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, at which an investigative officer will decide whether to refer the case for court-martial. Kimmitt said he could not disclose the soldiers' names, units or ranks before the hearings are held.
(continued)
Tinfoil mad hatter: For real thrills, go rent a copy of the original _7 Days in May_. See how many times you can supply current details for the scripted drama. Why, it's just as if somebody were following a plan.
Copyright 2004 The Washington Post
March 21, 2004 Sunday
SECTION: A Section; A21
HEADLINE: U.S. Soldiers Charged in Abuse of Iraqis
(continued)
The abuse allegations at Abu Ghraib are the latest of several such episodes.
In January, three Army reservists were discharged for kicking and punching prisoners at a detention center near the southern city of Basra.
In December, an Army officer, Lt. Col. Allen B. West, was fined $5,000 for firing a pistol near the head of an Iraqi detainee during an interrogation. West was not court-martialed, but his military career was effectively ended.
In October, eight Marine reservists were charged with mistreating prisoners of war at a camp near Nasiriyah, about 200 miles south of Baghdad. Two of them were charged with negligent homicide in a prisoner's death in June.
[2 paragraphs about Coalition and Iraqi casualties ]
"No, but his dog is."
--Anonymous
Maybe the Secret Service should protect his dog from Rick Santorum.
Rick Santorum's Letter to Penthouse Forum
patriotboy - ROFLMAO - a winger actually admitted to being too loony for the army? OMG! I can't stop laughing----
More LGF:
Yes there is a lot of "Arab Bashing." The Arabs deserve to be bashed. They do nothing but kill, kill, kill,kill and kill. Everywhere along the borders of the "ummah" there are muslim devils agitating and killing all non-muslims. Chauvinist, mysogynist, totalitarian-fascist religious bigots DESERVE to be bashed
Helga:
Thanks, Philalethes, for hitting the proverbial nail on the head: "Why couldn't it have been Scalia?" My thoughts exactly when I read atrios' entry!
I hope this is comment is meant to be ironic, as it was actually a pretty stupid thing to say...just ill-temper and disgust talking. Frankly, if Bush and all his minions were boiled in oil at high noon on the Capitol Mall, I don't think I'd shed a tear. But that's not a feeling I'm proud of, and engendering that kind of ugly thinking is one of the things I most resent about BushCo.
I see that my favorite idiotarian weblog is having an excellent day!
Thanks heaps, everyone. Keep it up.
Look who just joined our side, bitches:
"Berkshire's Buffett, Apple's Jobs Join Kerry Advisers
"May 1 (Bloomberg) -- Billionaire investor Warren Buffett and Apple Computer Inc. co-founder Steve Jobs are advising Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry on economic issues."
I fucking love Steve Jobs, bitches. Not only does he make great cartoons, it was also HIM who shot his baby batter into the computer world and gave us The Mac!
Favortie Steve Jobs story. Circa 1982: Motherfucker goes to the head of Pepsi Corp and tries to convince the fuck to join his team. Fuck doesn't want to join. Fuck and motherfucker go round and round in fuck's office for about fourty-five minutes. Fucking checkmate, bitches! Then motherfucking Jobs drops the fucking BOMB, bitches. "Look," motherfucker says, "do you want to sell sugar water for the rest of your life, or do you want to come with me and change the world?"
Fucker says he gulped.
Then the fucker joined.
JOBS KICKS ALL YOUR ASSES, BITCHES!!!
Tinfoil mad hatter: For real thrills, go rent a copy of the original _7 Days in May_. See how many times you can supply current details for the scripted drama. Why, it's just as if somebody were following a plan.
Chauvinist, mysogynist, totalitarian-fascist religious bigots DESERVE to be bashed
No. Come on. You're making this up.
Please tell me you're making this up...
Charley, GUCR probably is for Georgetown University College Republicans (Young Republicans)
The Souter hit was just an introductory course in gop thuggery.
For mug shots, see
http://tinyurl.com/ypmne
In the first photo, you can see their mentor.
Google Fights!
Miserable Failure vs. John Kerry
Atrios vs Instapundit
Godzilla vs. guy in a lizard suit
Windows XP vs Linux
Justice Souter vs. young thugs
Republicans vs. Democrats
Republicans vs. World
Patriot Act vs. Civil Liberties
hat, it must be a sad day for you.
We tried to tell you, but you wouldn't listen.
Sucks to be on the losing side, hat, doesn't it.
I just read the LGF Commenters link that patroitboy posted.
Bush syays we're at war. Actions taken by the armed forces on both sides of a war is accountable under the Geneva convention rules.
That said, what the US military did to those prisoners was a violation of the Geneva convention rules. And it may be considered a war crime too.
Some people may agrue that it was only pictures. But they have never been is a situation where they no longer have their freedom and not aware of their fate on a daily basis. If they are told to submit to a humilating act for the purpose of entertaining their captors, odds are they would do as they are told in order to survive.
Of course, Bush as stated that their actions are not representative of the US and therefore is washing his hands of the problem. Odd thing is, when I was in the military overseas, I was reminded time and time again to be wary of my actions when I mingled with the local populations of the countries I was stationed in. We were always told our actions as viewed by the population would be viewed as representative of the people of the US.
I guess now that the US is the only super power left in the world, how the world views the actions of the US military overseas doesn't matter anymore. The president will disavow any knowledge of their transgressions that do not fit within the model of his own transgressions.
regards
.
More from LGF:
Muslims need to understand the Allah allows them to be humiliated by kafirs because he is pissed off at them for being such bloodthirsty savages.
Humiliation is good for the soul. It reminds them that muslims are nothing special and islam is nothing special.
i know jr. but i am just so distressed, i had to make a stupid. joke. altho i didn't catch the mentor. hopefully not that horrid david horrorwitz. are there dem. clubs on campuses. i imagine there are, but i doubt they march in lock step. this is the rep. parties advantage, always tow the party line. god forbid one have a thought for themselves. and finally there is nothing worse then an educated BROWNSHIRT, especially if he/she is actually intelligent. rare i know, but george is surrounded by them, and look how quickly they have wreaked so much damage.
>Ay-rab kids would have been. The >browner the kid, the more likely they >would have made it to Gitmo.
>Nads
Racist Nads thinks Muslims/Arabs are 'brown'. All Caucasians (those inhabiting the Caucusus mountains) are Muslim, so are Iraqis, Afghans, Turks.
All of those are about as lily-white as you can get. (Even many Iraqis have auburn hair).
"Let us not forget this is the same Muad-Dib who made drums from the skins of his enemies."
Hurbert OWNS, bitches.
Humiliation is good for the soul.
Translation from Freeperese: Other peoples' humiliation gets my dick hard.
And thanks to you Hat for the drive by farting.
And thanks to you Hat for the drive by farting.
And thanks to you Hat for the drive by farting.
charley, I was pretty sure you knew that. I was mostly trying to get others to check it out. BTW, the mentor was Mother Bush.
"And thanks to you Hat for the drive by farting."
Well, that wouldn't have been so bad, you know, in and of itself. Thing was, motherfucker was loaded, yo, loaded to the motherfucking gills with Limbaugh's cocksnot.
And I just BOUGHT this fuckin shirt, bitches.
as is oft said, just because we're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get us.
ot, there is an article at the Guardian uk.co "shooting of 7 terrorists staged for US", in Macedonia in March 2002...apparently they shot 7 innocent people and claimed they were terrorists for the benefit of US!..this is unbelievable!
Can we have a minimal level of competence in Iraq? Just a smidgen?
As a New Iraqi Force Goes to Work in Falluja, Questions Arise About Its Leader's Record
By JOHN KIFNER
Published: May 2, 2004
FALLUJA, Iraq, May 1 — The new Marine-approved Iraqi force began taking up positions on Saturday on a few quiet street corners in this embattled city amid reports that some residents were celebrating its arrival as a victory over the Americans.
But the record of the man chosen to lead the force — a commander in Saddam Hussein's feared Republican Guard — appeared to be raising questions in the American command, which has appeared somewhat confused over the sudden turnabout here in which old enemies have become new allies.
Although some officials in the Pentagon told reporters on Friday that Maj. Gen. Jasim Muhammad Saleh had not been a member of the Republican Guard, intelligence and other Marine officers here reconfirmed their own Friday comments that General Saleh had been a ranking officer in the guard, one of the special units close to Saddam Hussein, before being chosen to command the Iraqi Army's 38th Infantry Division.
Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the chief military spokesman for the Coalition Provisional Authority in Baghdad, said the authority and the new Iraqi Ministry of Defense would have to investigate General Saleh's background, including whether he had been in the Republican Guard...
I would be interested to hear what Kerry has to say about the Iraqi prison follies. But more importantly, John McCain, who was a POW in Vietnam, should be raking Bush over the coals. As well as all the other POWs too!
reagrds
.
Whoa, that was some finish in the Derby!!!!!
aurora,
that story is whacked. I posted about it a while ago
...BTW, in today's STL Post-Dispatch, there was an incredible story about how Macedonia essentially kidnapped 6 or so Pakistanis and shot them dead so that they could say they were getting tough on "terrorists". Now that is fucking crazy. I wouldn't doubt Bush said "hey, why didn't we think of that!" "And here's $50 million in aid!"
Finally, the paper also had a great smackdown editorial on Karen "Why Did Bush Make Me Abort My Baby?" Hughes for her associating pro-choice people to terrorists.
pie - Heard $5m bonus for coming into the race undefeated. Not bad for two minutes work.
smarty jones was my horsie! too bad i don't wager.
sorry about the repeat jr...been trying to catch up on all of the posts..
jr - Was marty jones the favorite?
Toe the line Bitch. Toe the line.
*thud thud thump*
You hear me Bitch?
*thump thud thump*
Lessons in dissent.
Let's call it like it is, people. If somebody attacked Souter for reasons of political intimidation, this is terrorism, plain and simple. And likely domestic terrorism.
Yet for some reason the press isn't willing to speculate in the least on this possibility, if they are even running the story, which the Los Angeles Times is not, for one. Meanwhile, the attack in Saudi Arabia with no known motive has already been labeled terrorist.
Ok, Philalethes, point taken! However, I would never act on these mean feelings unlike more than a few right-wingers.
And apology accepted, patriotboy!
aurora,
i'm sorry, i didn't mean to suggest that this story shouldn't be re-posted. plus, i think my post was from about 5 hours ago. This has been one long thread on a rainy day.
chris/tx
you mean 's'marty? I don't really think there was a true favorite this year. I didn't see a horse named Chimpie McFlightsuit in the race, so I had to go with Smarty Jones.
aurora borelis - "this is unbelievable!" Unfortunately, given that this took place in Macedonia, it is all too believable.
Sorry if anyone takes that as an anti-Macedonian statement. It wasn't meant to be one - but Macedonia has been the site of a whole lot of Muslim-Christian hatred and bloodshed, complicated deeply by the ongoing blood feuds that families and clans carry on for generations. Macedonia is a very violent place.
I don't know if Smarty was the fav. He was, however, undefeated and the first undefeated horse to win the Derby since Seattle Slew ('77?)
But his owner lives in Hot Springs, AR, and his trainer is from Phillie.
Small world.
Not surprising to me. I used to live in Souter's neighborhood. Some moderately priced apartments, but mostly very expensive condos & townhouses, less than a block from lots of public housing. A couple of months after I heard a semi-automatic weapon being fired in the distance, I moved elsewhere.
penalcolony | Email | Homepage | 05.01.04 - 1:08 pm | #
dang...you sure scare easily....
The names of the soldiers responsible for he ill-treatment of Iraqi prisoners:
Staff Sergeant Ivan L. Frederick II, known as Chip, who was the senior enlisted man; Specialist Charles A. Graner; Sergeant Javal Davis; Specialist Megan Ambuhl; Specialist Sabrina Harman; and Private Jeremy Sivits—are now facing prosecution in Iraq, on charges that include conspiracy, dereliction of duty, cruelty toward prisoners, maltreatment, assault, and indecent acts. A seventh suspect, Private Lynndie England, was reassigned to Fort Bragg, North Carolina, after becoming pregnant.
OT:
From LATimes editorial today:
"When Secretary of the Interior Gale A. Norton and her assistants fanned out to celebrate Earth Day on April 22, the headline on the press release proclaimed in part, "Cherishing our National Parks." Norton visited Yosemite National Park, declaring in effect that the Bush administration was emulating Teddy Roosevelt in caring for the nation's natural treasures. In fact, this administration is the worst in decades in protecting and maintaining the park system."
"The National Parks Conservation Assn. estimates that the annual $1.6-billion National Park Service budget for operations and maintenance is $600 million short of what's needed. The administration has acknowledged advising regional park directors to quietly cut services to save money. Suggested "service level adjustments" included closing visitor centers on federal holidays, cutting back ranger talks and tours and closing entire parks for some days of the week. David Barna, a Park Service spokesman, suggested that the reductions be spread out as much as possible "so that it won't cause public or political controversy."
Damn
Tena- some of my best friends are Macedonian.
Seymour Hersh's New Yorker article hit all the nightly news networks. This has to be really deflating for a lot of Americans who are desperately trying to justify our mad-capped adventure.
Also, Joe Wilson (and Kofi Anan) will be on Meet the Press tomorrow.
Sorry. The president of a track in Hot Springs took out an insurance policy that guaranteed that if one horse won these three race: Rebel Stakes, Arkansas Derby, and the Kentucky Derby, he would give the money to the winner.
So the owner of Smarty gets an extra five million dollars.
Smarty was the fave, but in a race with no faves - he went off at 4-1.
I had the 3-15 exacta boxed, but it woulda paid more if Smarty had stayed second...
Anyway, Atrios must have had a coupla bucks on the local boy. Howzabout it, sport?
This may have been a simple burglery, but...
The Bush right is going to steal as many of our rights as it can get away with. Because it knows that the majority of people in this country aren't paying the slightest attention to their rights, and wouldn't know the difference if you burned the constitution at the stake and said it was a human be-in.
If anything, this trend is accelerating.
pie - Thanks, I misunderstood he got the extra $5m for coming in undefeated. Knew that did not sound right.
patriotboy - Thanks for the link.
What I don't see is how the army or the DOD thinks that the commander of Gitmo is supposed to clean things up - hell, the reports of abuse at Gitmo have been worse than these reports.
*sigh*
And then there's Negroponte.
Newspapers across the Arab world -- but not those in Iraq -- ran the photographs apparently showing U.S. soldiers humiliating hooded, naked detainees at Abu Ghraib prison on their front pages.
That's good. At least the I-raks won't know anything about it, they'd probably be upset. Good thing they don't have sat tv there.
And then there's Negroponte.
Tena
hmmm, any chance these guys knew far enough in advance that he was going to get the nod and decided to show him they knew what was expected?
tena,
The gitmo guy is coming in because he is going to knock some heads. If anyone so much as dares to bring in a camera, they are going to be court-martialed.
gary - "...some of my best friends are macedonians." Good for you!
Actually, the insurance policy guaranteed that the money would go the winner of the three races.
It didn't cost much for the premium, but it sure paid off.
George, I am stunned by your blue assertions.
chris/tx. you didn't misunderstand. I just didn't get it right the first time.
Oh shit, this couldn't really have been because some homophobic pit bulls think Justice Souter is gay, could it? I know that's what David E was saying back up at the start, but for some reason I didn't consider that possiblity very seriously. Shit.
George -
So, if the SC justices are sensitive to gay issues because of Souter, are they sensitive to porno issues because of Clarence?
More on the guards:
The photographs tell it all. In one, Private England, a cigarette dangling from her mouth, is giving a jaunty thumbs-up sign and pointing at the genitals of a young Iraqi, who is naked except for a sandbag over his head, as he masturbates. Three other hooded and naked Iraqi prisoners are shown, hands reflexively crossed over their genitals. A fifth prisoner has his hands at his sides. In another, England stands arm in arm with Specialist Graner; both are grinning and giving the thumbs-up behind a cluster of perhaps seven naked Iraqis, knees bent, piled clumsily on top of each other in a pyramid. There is another photograph of a cluster of naked prisoners, again piled in a pyramid. Near them stands Graner, smiling, his arms crossed; a woman soldier stands in front of him, bending over, and she, too, is smiling. Then, there is another cluster of hooded bodies, with a female soldier standing in front, taking photographs. Yet another photograph shows a kneeling, naked, unhooded male prisoner, head momentarily turned away from the camera, posed to make it appear that he is performing oral sex on another male prisoner, who is naked and hooded.
Such dehumanization is unacceptable in any culture, but it is especially so in the Arab world. Homosexual acts are against Islamic law and it is humiliating for men to be naked in front of other men, Bernard Haykel, a professor of Middle Eastern studies at New York University, explained. “Being put on top of each other and forced to masturbate, being naked in front of each other—it’s all a form of torture,” Haykel said.
Two Iraqi faces that do appear in the photographs are those of dead men. There is the battered face of prisoner No. 153399, and the bloodied body of another prisoner, wrapped in cellophane and packed in ice. There is a photograph of an empty room, splattered with blood.
The 372nd’s abuse of prisoners seemed almost routine—a fact of Army life that the soldiers felt no need to hide. On April 9th, at an Article 32 hearing (the military equivalent of a grand jury) in the case against Sergeant Frederick, at Camp Victory, near Baghdad, one of the witnesses, Specialist Matthew Wisdom, an M.P., told the courtroom what happened when he and other soldiers delivered seven prisoners, hooded and bound, to the so-called “hard site” at Abu Ghraib—seven tiers of cells where the inmates who were considered the most dangerous were housed. The men had been accused of starting a riot in another section of the prison. Wisdom said:
SFC Snider grabbed my prisoner and threw him into a pile. . . . I do not think it was right to put them in a pile. I saw SSG Frederic, SGT Davis and CPL Graner walking around the pile hitting the prisoners. I remember SSG Frederick hitting one prisoner in the side of its [sic] ribcage. The prisoner was no danger to SSG Frederick. . . . I left after that.
When he returned later, Wisdom
jr - Of course - the pictures. You're right. Everytime I think about this I wonder again why they took those pictures - my mind boggles.
Oh shit, this couldn't really have been because some homophobic pit bulls think Justice Souter is gay, could it?
You can't possibly believe that someone would go after Souter for this.
It would go beyond this reason if that were the case.
I am Atrios!
(Continued)
When he returned later, Wisdom testified:
I saw two naked detainees, one masturbating to another kneeling with its mouth open. I thought I should just get out of there. I didn’t think it was right . . . I saw SSG Frederick walking towards me, and he said, “Look what these animals do when you leave them alone for two seconds.” I heard PFC England shout out, “He’s getting hard.”
Wisdom testified that he told his superiors what had happened, and assumed that “the issue was taken care of.” He said, “I just didn’t want to be part of anything that looked criminal.”
patriotboy, can you put that in blue next?
This is really interesting, though. In the NYT article where Gen. Kapinski gives her story, (I linked to it above) she states that she really didn't have any control over 7 cells where special interrogators did there dirty work. She says that these cells were essentially off limits.
I refered to Cellblock 1A as Room 619 of South Africa, where Steve Biko was murdered.
pie - well, it kind of goes beyond reason as is, but no, I really didn't consider that that might be the cause until I followed George's link and read the article. I had no idea that there was a possibility that Souter was gay; I never thought about it. I don't pay any attention to the justices' private lives. In fact, I don't really want to know anything about their private lives. That shit starts messing with your head after awhile. It's like overdoing it with the biographies of writers you really love - generally, not a good idea. You never read them the same.
I hate how personal the Repugs have made politics. They always attack on a personal basis - sex, honor, truthfulness, patriotism. They make everything about the personality. It's disgusting. And people on the left do it too. Half the people who don't like Kerry don't like him because of his personality. Tell you what, I could care fucking less about his personality. I'm not looking for a date, I want a leader.
jr, read the whole Hersh story.
I could have been Atrios, if only I had been a little faster. I came in 6th, though.
patriotboy,
It sounds like Specialist Matthew Wisdom is a true professional. A credit to our country. However, I bet he is going to face a lot of harassment. Maybe he can go work for Amnesty International or something.
Give turkee to Amnesty International USA!
This may have been a simple burglery, but...
Hmmm, that's what they said about Watergate.
Maybe not so crazy to be paranoid after all.
on second thought, he could have told them to stop. but still.
I'm beginning to think that Atrios is at an all day Kentucky Derby party.
Frankly, Tena, this whole thing has gone in a direction that is fucking unbelievable.
Clarence T has his issues with sexual abuse. Scalia is a religious wacko.
We don't need to go there.
Maybe Bluto has some major issues with his dad favoring "the smart one", Jeb and that's what all this bullshit is really about.
I'm beginning to think that Atrios is at an all day Kentucky Derby party.
Tena | Email | Homepage | 05.01.04 - 8:33 pm | #
Smarty Jones posted that he was Atrios. Could be.. came from Pennsylvania. He could be pooped after running the good race.
I'm beginning to think that Atrios is at an all day Kentucky Derby party.
Tena
hmm, think you can sneak the keys to blogger and the liquor cabinet again? it is Saturday and time to party, after all
All you can ask of any SCOTUS Justice is that he be true to the constitution. Which is why so many become liberals even if they start as conservatives. But some of you liberal lawyers start acting like wingnuts and get on the supreme court for us, willya?
OT. It's prom night, and there's a stretch hummer parked across the street.
I've been wondering/hoping if the repeated pictures of the things on fire would do anything to diminish their macho appeal. I guess not yet.
Ok, I opened a thread.
Hey Petey Wheatstraw -- Maybe a little less Jay and bit more Silent Bob?
That disgraced TRAITOR Bob Novak just lied his ass off on CNN.
In defending the indefensible regarding the fake controversy of John Kerry and that wingnut bishop hell-bent on denying his communion, Novak said that the Catholic Church actually defends the death penalty.
Traitor Novak just said on CNN's 'The Capitol Gang' that the positions of the Catholic Church on abortion and the Death penalty are not the same, and he cited a 1995 Catholic Catechism of the US Catholic Church to claim that the Catholic Church actually does support the death penalty.
The traitor is LYING. That 1994 Catechism mentions the following: "The right and duty of legitimate public authority to punish malefactors by means of penalties commensurate with the gravity of the crime, not excluding, in cases of extreme gravity, the death penalty."
What the Traitor does not mention is that the Pope made a rebuttal to that Catechism called the Evangelium Vitae (The Gospel of Life) where the pope endorsed the restriction or complete abolishment of the death penalty in modern societies "in conformity to the dignity of the human person." Furthermore, the Pope added that the only remote exception in which the Catholic Church can possibly defend the death penalty is in case that society as a whole is irrevocably threatened. So, unless we are talking Hitler or Attila the Hun, and in an irrevocable case of societal self-defense, the Catholic Church does NOT support the death penalty.
For those unaware of the working of the Catholic Church, the word of the Pope trumps any regional catechism or unofficial declaration within the church.
Novak loses.
(Full link to this argument at my blog: juliusblog.blogspot.com)
Ok, Philalethes, point taken! However, I would never act on these mean feelings unlike more than a few right-wingers.
Of course not. And in a way it's ridiculous that we're expected to be inhumanly patient and even-tempered, despite being all too human in terms of being provoked by hateful behavior. Especially when our opponents are indulging in a full-time hatefest. The line between righteous and unrighteous wrath is hazy, and I cross it all the time, I'm afraid...
I used my girlfriend's computer to post the comment above on Novak. It was me, Julius.
julius, one of these days, the Plame indictments are going to be announced.
Bob Novak is hanging by his long fingernails and crooked nose.
Traitor.
WaPo story on Souter gives a few more details:
Authorities said that Souter went home after the assault and contacted the Supreme Court police, who took him to the hospital. The justice asked that D.C. police be notified because he was concerned for the safety of others in the area, authorities said. He was released from the hospital about 1:30 a.m. Saturday.
Kathy Arberg, the court's spokeswoman, said that Souter was not robbed. "I can't say what the intent was," she said.
Souter, a bachelor and a frequent jogger, reportedly lives near the scene, and has been seen at a neighborhood grocery store that is one block from the scene of the assault.
He is among the most private of the justices, rarely making outside appearances. The justices are protected by Supreme Court police when they travel on official business in the city and by federal marshals when they leave town. They typically have little if any protection when they are not working.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp...8-
2004May1.html
Souter, a native of Melrose, Mass., was a Rhodes Scholar during his collegiate years and received his law degree from Harvard Law School. He was later the Attorney General of New Hampshire, served on the Supreme Court of New Hampshire and was appointed to the Supreme Court in 1990 by President George H.W. Bush. He is viewed as one of the more liberal members of the court.
Interesting end to the article.
Whatever.
cs - nice!
Want really interesting? It was John Sununu who pushed Souter for the court, remember him, the Senator's father, ex-NH govenor (pushed the last nuke on them) the one who lost his job for taking a government jet to go look at some stamps for his collection.
Before he was a judge Souter was a flunky for the NH Republican party went after the anti-nuke Clamshell Alliance with everything he could muster and I'm sure Big John S. thought that he was going to be a safe vote. Boy Souter grew up on them, though. Pulled an even bigger switch than Earl Warren.
It's nice to see that a grown man can change for the better. He's earned respect after having earning scorn. It's always good to see that can really happen.
"Berkshire's Buffett, Apple's Jobs Join Kerry Advisers
"May 1 (Bloomberg) -- Billionaire investor Warren Buffett and Apple Computer Inc. co-founder Steve Jobs are advising Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry on economic issues."
This is great news, Petey.. Steve Jobs isn't perfect, but I'll take his kind of imperfection, any day. I'm just imagining some of the things Jobs would advise: "Hey--a black turtleneck and jeans is all the businesswear a guy needs."
Oh wait. That isn't economic advice.
Maybe this will work instead: "Make the best product (have the best economic policy, overall) that you can, have the best support team in all of the world, and F**k anybody who says those aren't good enough to run a profitable company. Those ARE good enough." Or, "Stop worrying about market share (polls). Be the best, and be cool while you're doing it. Everyone else will follow YOU."
My favorite Jobs story: When he was leading the Macintosh's development, he hoisted a skull and cross-bones flag over the team's building.
On topic: Souter's mugging.
While it could be a random mugging, I guess I wasn't alone in wondering if it weren't something more. Considering the who. I'm reserving judgment until I hear the rest of the story, but I wish I didn't have to wonder about that something more.
So now you idiots want to blame the Bush administration for this attack on Justice Souter too? Christ, I hope Kerry gets elected so this hate-mongering can cease! Just kidding; I hope Kerry gets slaughtered so you dickheads can spend four more years slandering the second-greatest president this country ever had. Sorry about using Christ in this post; I know it burns your liberal eyes...
Liberals--The Enemy Within!!!
How does someone get attacked and beaten by multiple people and come away with only "minor injuries"?
Well, it certainly says something that they are suspicious that the Clintons murdered people and we think they killed Wellstone. Any old people out there? Were we always this distrustful of each other?
Somebody said earlier, "I'm glad these guys can go out in public like normal people."
Well, Scalia, when he goes out in public, demands that nobody videotapes him making public comments. And he has a bunch of goons to back him up.
Strange defilnition of "normal"
Well, ten minutes from NRML anyways...
White Male, life - long dominant Master truly wants a submissive Black lady.
You will be my companion on the outside and my slut / whore in the bedroom.
Looking for a LTR. Can assist the right lady in relocating to New England
Master Mark
patriotboy
Condie rice is doing well enough on her own in the same capacity for Cheney, as chevron stock is up a third its value, thanks anyways...
When did I have corn?
"Berkshire's Buffett, Apple's Jobs Join Kerry Advisers
"May 1 (Bloomberg) -- Billionaire investor Warren Buffett and Apple Computer Inc. co-founder Steve Jobs are advising Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry on economic issues."
This is great news, Petey.. Steve Jobs isn't perfect, but I'll take his kind of imperfection, any day. I'm just imagining some of the things Jobs would advise: "Hey--a black turtleneck and jeans is all the businesswear a guy needs."
Oh wait. That isn't economic advice.
Maybe this will work instead: "Make the best product (have the best economic policy, overall) that you can, have the best support team in all of the world, and F**k anybody who says those aren't good enough to run a profitable company. Those ARE good enough." Or, "Stop worrying about market share (polls). Be the best, and be cool while you're doing it. Everyone else will follow YOU."
My favorite Jobs story: When he was leading the Macintosh's development, he hoisted a skull and cross-bones flag over the team's building.
LJ
You have just described the Atrios profile...
Had to be one of Fat Tony's boys. A little warning about how he should vote on the pending Energy bill case?
A word to the wise:
If you go jogging in D.C,
by yourself,
at night,
wearing funny-looking robes,
then it's highly unusual not to get mugged!
Hey, maybe Pat Robertson just got tired of praying...
I have to agree that if all these guys really did jump him, then his injuries aren't "minor". I think that he was given a warning. This was also a warning to Ginsberg, Breyer and Stevens. The fundies and the bigots want them out of the way and will stop at nothing. They've already bragged about killing Paul Wellstone. That was just the first taste of blood for them.
keefer==are you f-ing nuts--the second greatest president ever? I refuse to believe anyone actually believes that. Even a right-wing nutjob like yourself has to admit, the Bush admin has really f-ed up the Iraq planning. Also, haven't you noticed that Bush is kinda stooopid? Who do you think was the best?
Well, this is way late in the thread, but here goes.
Multiple men? I guess there were several.
Main Entry: 1mul·ti·ple
Pronunciation: 'm&l-t&-p&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: French, from Latin multiplex, from multi- + -plex -fold -- more at -FOLD
Date: 1647
1 : consisting of, including, or involving more than one
2 : MANY, MANIFOLD
3 : shared by many
4 : having numerous aspects or functions : VARIOUS
5 : being a group of terminals which make a circuit available at a number of points
6 : formed by coalescence of the ripening ovaries of several flowers
"1 : consisting of, including, or involving more than one"
That's a poor definition. Since 1 is identity, multiple should refer to to more than two, not more than one.
This was coercion. Apparently there are murmurings against the Coup. Just as killing reporters reduces and perverts the newsflow, a light beating tells a SCJ that he's mortal too, and he's being watched. Amazing how plastic fear is, how easily generalized on the weak.
OT: it occurs to me that Bushliar's 40% vacations might be masking something more than his laziness and sloth. Given his obvious envy of Hitler, could he have an Eva Braun on the side? Could he have a pretty mouth?
"keefer==are you f-ing nuts--the second greatest president ever? I refuse to believe anyone actually believes that. Even a right-wing nutjob like yourself has to admit, the Bush admin has really f-ed up the Iraq planning. Also, haven't you noticed that Bush is kinda stooopid? Who do you think was the best?
anonymous"
William Henry Harrison.
"Well, it certainly says something that they are suspicious that the Clintons murdered people and we think they killed Wellstone. Any old people out there? Were we always this distrustful of each other?
eh"
Are you kidding? After JFK, RFK, MLK jr....
We're dealing with sharks.
You have to wonder what kind of racists and traitors to the collective good it takes to support sociopaths, assassinations, huge ripoffs, unnecessary wars, torture, gleeful destruction of nature, poisoning the earth with radiation, obvious traitors and terrorists with the pretense of being normal people.
Suspecting mafiosi of killing their enemies is part of an adequate grasp of reality. It's not tin foil at all.
The minor injuries after an attack by mulitple men does sound pretty suspicious especially if robbery was ruled out as the motive. What would the motive be? Granny bashing?
People are foolish to think that the Bush crime family wouldn't do something like this to intimidate a judge. If they'll kill tens of thousands in Iraq to expand their business holdings they'll rough up a judge who they're afraid might rule against them. And as pointed out above it sends a message to the rest of them.
Their opperatives are certainly up to something like this all those CIA connections. Exactly the kind of thing they do around the world.
No, no. They'd do this without any problem so it's not implausible. And evidence would be hard to get, I'd imagine.
OT but have you read this in the Sundayherald
http://www.sundayherald.com/41693
But these soldiers aren’t simply mavericks. Some accused claim they acted on the orders of military intelligence and the CIA, and that some of the torture sessions were under the control of mercenaries hired by the US to conduct interrogations. Two “civilian contract” organisations taking part in interrogations at Abu Ghraib are linked to the Bush administration.
California-based Titan Corporation says it is “a leading provider of solutions and services for national security”. Between 2003-04, it gave nearly $40,000 to George W Bush’s Republican Party. Titan supplied translators to the military.
CACI International Inc. describes its aim as helping “America’s intelligence community in the war on terrorism”. Richard Armitage, the current deputy US secretary of state, sat on CACI’s board.
Nice, huh?
"The line between righteous and unrighteous wrath is hazy, and I cross it all the time, I'm afraid...
Philalethes"
'There is no perfect protest.'
If that is the extent of our 'all too human,' compared to the scope of their traitorous 'foibles,' then the peace of our activated democracy will be well-earned.
A Nation of Laws? Or a nation of christo-nazis. Apparently, they got their own flag; they got their own pledge; they've got their own military; and they've got their own press. So we're going to have to excise as much of that as we can. Maybe we should put a powder blue strip diagonally on our flag, to represent our penitential apology to the world after we defeat the Coup.
I would like Washington, Lincoln, and Jefferon's birthdays back, paid. And paid voting days. And federally-funded elections equivalent to Danish television broadcasts, as boring and factual as could be. Hey, I'm even getting to like Kerry after all.
"Interrogating prisoners and getting intelligence, including by intimidation and torture, was the priority."
Sating racist hatred, expressing religious hatred, terrorizing and dehumanizing for entertainment, THOSE were the priority.
Nuremberg.
Well, one update on the developing story of the British piccies revealed in the Daily Mirror - at least some of them have been doctored, faked or staged. The regiment purportedly from whom the perpetrators came pointed out that the hardware seen in the background was not of the kind the regiment had taken to Iraq with it.
Faked or not, these are not good news for the UK military, still less the coalition generally.
How does someone get attacked and beaten by multiple people and come away with only "minor injuries"?
Seraphiel
Easy, if their main job is to intimidate- and give Souter an idea of what's to come if he doesn't vote Wright in the 2004 $election.
Fat Tony warned him...
Distrit of Columbia=Taxation without representation.
actually I think it was fomer Senator Warren Rudman of NH that pushed for Souter as well as Sununnu. Which was a good thing since he was probably one of the most reasonable non-partisan members of the Senate ever.
I know that this is going to come off as paranoia--but I wouldn't be surprised if Souter wasn't attacked because he showed signs of not backing Dick Cheney in his court case. If so, I hope that Souter sticks to his guns.
SL
My first thought, after reading between the lines, was that he was raped. No one would speak about his "minor injuries", if it was a conk on the head, I don't think they would be so careful. Ditto, being so sure it wasn't a robbery motive.
Nothing in today's papers, so apparently
Justice Souter is fine...or,or,dead!!!!
whooooooooooooooo
Sweet, another SCOTUS vote for Right. After all, everyone knows a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged.
"My first thought, after reading between the lines, was that he was raped. No one would speak about his "minor injuries", if it was a conk on the head, I don't think they would be so careful. Ditto, being so sure it wasn't a robbery motive."
I wondered the same thing. Quality minds over at Liberty Post have quickly concluded that Justice Souter was "cruising" for "gay sex" and have expressed the nuanced view that "since Souter is a liberal, it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy".
Isn't that sweet? Looking on the bright side, one of them notes that Justice Souter is "lucky he didn't wind up like Matthew Shepard."
Right now, I'm trying really hard to remember just who the terrorists are, and who they are not.
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