I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Frist!
Is it true that Dick Cheney has been cast to play Lord Voldemort in "Goblet of Fire"?
did you snag the keys to the liquor cabinet too?
drat! fristed again!
second...??
I'm George W.Bush,and I approve these messages.
Go here, scroll down, and vote for the Worst President ever.
Factsarestupidthings - If they had Cheney in the role, it would get them rated PG13 - that won't work.
Gerorge,You and you fellow traitors are toast.You deserve the gulag.
rense.com has an article about bush and the pretzel attack. the writer was suggesting bush has seizures or convulsions and takes some unnamed medicine daily.
You're not George W. Bush, you fake! Your name says "Gerorge W. Bush."
All righty then...Here's an ice-breaker. How the fuck do we get out of Iraq? If Kerry wins, this will be an albatross around his neck.
And I don't even want to ponder the alternative...
Doh!
bless you tena!
double plus Doh!
Tena, doncha mean "it's a S-S-S-S-Saturday Night S-S-S-Special"???
Mission Accomplished!
holy crap, is anyone listening to AAR right now? apparently 1/3 of the ~50 questions that the Turkish version of the State Dept asked of the US as far as iWaq post-war planning were unanswered/unknown as of February 2003
We leave and we bribe them not to kill each other. There is no other way.
Kerry doesnt need to worry hisself over the quagmire.The war is now lost.With the pictures becomming seen all over the Arab world,they will be as hot to kill Americans as OBL and his gang.
Our thanks to bush for promoting this chicanery.He has made the war more deadly if alot shorter now.
Kerry needs to start devising a way to put the peices back together.
So where's atrios? In Kentucky at the Derby?
Atrios: the new Forrest Gump.
Say, look what I just found!
It's a brand new NYT article by a Mr. Nagourney, on how Sen. Kerry is just plain screwing up the campaign, and had better get his shit together!
http://tinyurl.com/22mha
Additional reporting by one Ms. Seelye.
dave - well you got it without the added extras.
patriotboy,
I read the whole Seymour Hersh article. Besides filling me with rage at our government, was there anything in particular you wanted to point out?
The governor of the Islamic portion of Nigeria has ordered the destruction of all Christian churches. See attached link. This is outrageous, and outrageous that it gets no attention in the press.
I think it's very important for Kerry to come out strongly against Radical Islamic Fundamentalism and acknowledge what a threat it is to everything that Americans believe in, then point out the the War in Iraq is completely counterproductive to that purpose, and then state how he intends to fight it. He should jump on something like this an be the first to condemn it publicly -- make the American people feel at ease that he knows that there are people out there that wouldn't blink at setting off an A-bomb and what he's going to do to fight them, and so they can feel comfortable about kicking this moron Bush out of office.
http://www.ds-osac.org/view.cfm?
...C1E0A3A0F162820
Barry Champlain - Let the NYT talk - when Kerry kicks into gear they ain't going to know what hit 'em. That's what everyone who knows him says - he goes along quietly until something rouses him and then he is absolutely unstoppable.
From the Political Sanity website --
The Hammer is Cracking: Polls Show DeLay is Weak in his District
Polling data has come to light that show only 36% of likely voters in DeLay's
district would definitely vote for him, 27 percent would consider someone
else, and 27 percent would definitely vote for someone else. Those numbers are
incredibly bad -- especially in a Perrymandered district that is over 67%
republican!
Those of us who live in Texas are not surprised at Tom DeLay's weak poll
numbers. People are tired of his arrogance and blind pursuit of his radical GOP
agenda at the expense of the people of Texas.
The numbers show that Tom DeLay is not invincible, now his opponent, Richard
Morrison, needs your help to show that he's mounting the most serious
challenge DeLay has ever faced. We're on track to raise $20,000 this week -- we've
raised over $10000 in the last three days alone. Please click the link below to
help Richard reach his $20,000 goal.
https://www.onlinecontribution.co...ison/
donate.php
iy has been a hard week to be an American citzen with a conscience.
iy has been a hard week to be an American citzen with a conscience
More like a hard month.
Smarty Jones won the Kentucky Derby, beating Imperialism. I like to think it is an omen.
It's a Saturday night special
And for twenty dollars you can buy yourself one toooo.
zeke,
I think that there is a real strong chance that we will be forced to have a big stand down in Iraq by next January when an elected president returns to 1600 Pennsylvania.
If things continue as they are, before too long Sistani will strongly suggest that Americans will no longer be tolerated after a certain point, (perhaps a certain number would be permitted through the elections) and that if we don't comply he will issue a fatwa. At that point, we will have to leave.
About those torture pics...you know how every time the US is accused of violating human rights or the Geneva Conventions someone (Like Kimmet, Myers, or Powell)always comes out with a statement assuring everyone that the US always acts within said rules?
Now it's clear that they don't even TRAIN the soldiers going into war and/or running the prisons on the Geneva Conventions. How can they be sure the rules are being followed if no one has any obligation to even read or understand the rules in the first place??? Of course, anyone with access to the internet can (and should) read the Geneva Conventions themselves (hell, I looked them up as soon as we invaded). Still, the military has some responsibility for making sure their troops understand them before committing them to war and giving them the authority to guard prisoners and enemy combatants. I wish some reporter would ask Kimmett if and when he was taught the Geneva Conventions and the rules of war.
Why not more in the media about cheney's DUI convictions?
Why not more in the media about cheney's DUI convictions?
Smarty Jones won the Kentucky Derby, beating Imperialism. I like to think it is an omen.
56k
but I thought Atrios' last name was "Smith"
or is that a reference to his partner in MIB?
I'm wondering how long its going to take the Roveniks to spin these torture stories against Kerry. Internationally, this wounds Bush considerably (most likely fatally in the Arab and Muslim world if he wasn't already). But domestically, as it was pointed out earlier, Americans are going to sympathize with the soldiers and demonize the Iraqis who were humiliated ("they brought it on themselves; it was just childish, harmless behavior by our kids; it was necessary to get confessions and save lives"). In this context, I bet they will use Kerry's exagerated langauge from the early 70s about Vietnam war crimes to paint him as an accuser of our current troops, i.e. saying Kerry has a history of bashing our troops as war criminals for political purposes, don't let this man undermine the war and our troops because he is on record believing Americans commit war atrocities regularly. . .
Why not more in the media about cheney's DUI convictions?
SHHHH!We're not allowed to talk about that.
Kerry can't get elected if he spends any more time talking about vietnam and medals. He needs to articulate a vision for the future that hits on:
Reduced military overseas.
Infrastructure renewal.
Education. (with real money).
Healthcare.
Middle-class dream renewal.
Research & Devel. (esp energy).
Justice reform (too many in jail).
Balanced budget.
He should promise to:
Cancel manned mars mission.
Cancel new atomic weapons.
Bring troops home from europe.
Secure national borders.
Cancel anti-missile program AND inspect all/most containers.
Really protect enviroment.
Demand tough new MPG standards.
Dump ridiculous SUV write-offs.
Tax write offs for hybrids, solar pwr.
And so on. But if he keeps falling into the trap of responding to lame GOP attacks he just looks like a weak fool.
whatcha talkin about, val?
That disgraced TRAITOR Bob Novak just lied his ass off on CNN.
In defending the indefensible regarding the fake controversy of John Kerry and that wingnut bishop hell-bent on denying his communion, Novak said that the Catholic Church actually defends the death penalty.
Traitor Novak just said on CNN's 'The Capitol Gang' that the positions of the Catholic Church on abortion and the Death penalty are not the same, and he cited a 1995 Catholic Catechism of the US Catholic Church to claim that the Catholic Church actually does support the death penalty.
The traitor is LYING. That 1994 Catechism mentions the following: "The right and duty of legitimate public authority to punish malefactors by means of penalties commensurate with the gravity of the crime, not excluding, in cases of extreme gravity, the death penalty."
What the Traitor does not mention is that the Pope made a rebuttal to that Catechism called the Evangelium Vitae (The Gospel of Life) where the pope endorsed the restriction or complete abolishment of the death penalty in modern societies "in conformity to the dignity of the human person." Furthermore, the Pope added that the only remote exception in which the Catholic Church can possibly defend the death penalty is in case that society as a whole is irrevocably threatened. So, unless we are talking Hitler or Attila the Hun, and in an irrevocable case of societal self-defense, the Catholic Church does NOT support the death penalty.
For those unaware of the working of the Catholic Church, the word of the Pope trumps any regional catechism or unofficial declaration within the church.
Novak loses.
(Full link to this argument at my blog: juliusblog.blogspot.com)
iy has been a hard week to be an American citzen with a conscience
More like a hard month.
With all due respect, you are off by...
Re this torture/abuse stuff -- I'm totally ashamed that something like that would be done by Americans. Plus, apparently private contractors had a role in a lot of these actions. The marketplace at work
"he Hammer is Cracking: Polls Show DeLay is Weak in his District"
Even his friends don't like him.
After people take a look at the upset brewing in Texas 22, I hope they will take a look at Jim Newberry's campaign blog. A candidate who doesn't just have a blog, he is on his blog.
Why this race? Well you know all the bad things you are saying about Tom Delay. Well after Delay is indicted/defeated/has a bad hair day - you will be saying them about Roy Blunt, the next Majority Leader. The two are siamese twins joined at the wallet.
Why Jim? Because he's got fight in him. When Atrios pushed the Sinclair scandal, our campaign helped get the word out, and Jim was among the first candidates to condemn Sinclair Broadcasting. We are going to be taking the fight to the top all the way along, every day, on a national and local level. I promise.
But, Jim lays out the case better than I can on his blog. And then I hope you will Reward Good Behavior.
anon - how thoughty of you to do all that for John Kerry. Why, you've got every single tiny little micromanaged detail worked out. I suppose you are writing the platform for your state's Democratic party, too. Good on you - ya putz.
Beautiful Saturday night here in the city of brotherly love; hope Atrios et al got out to enjoy it.
One of our poor neightbor horse and carriage tour buggies got hit by a car tonight. WTF is wrong with people driving in this city?
I hear there were no injuries to driver, passangers or horse, but I haven't heard about the antique carriage yet.
Probably everyone but me already knew this...but what a pleasure to see in the NYT that Cheney's first daughter was born nine months and two days after Selective Service annnounced a deferment for parents.
Also, I've been meaning to float this for a while: How many people know repentent Bush voters? I knew 9 Bush people in the last election. Current tally is five. (Of the four turncoats, a couple actually apologized to me for their 2000 vote.)
Anyone have similar--or different--anecdotal statistics?
Kerry can't get elected if he spends any more time talking about vietnam and medals. He needs to articulate a vision for the future that hits on:
anon
You are exactly right. You notice those repubs just change the subject. The sheeple don't notice because the media doesn't take them to task. Since they let the repubs slide by with non-answers, they need to allow the dems the same courtesy.
UofAZGrad,
I wouldn't sweat it. Such an attack is likely, but it will only play to the base which has already made up its mind that they won't vote for Kerry.
More Americans are going to be defalted by this story. They are desperately seeking validation that we should have invaded Iraq, but each month that goes by the truth becomes clearer.
As for Kerry, people are really going to respond to him when prime time comes around. (Convention time.)
so stirling:
are you his son, brother, what?
and i like his message.
UofAZGrad,
I wouldn't sweat it. Such an attack is likely, but it will only play to the base which has already made up its mind that they won't vote for Kerry.
More Americans are going to be deflated by this story. They are desperately seeking validation that we should have invaded Iraq, but each month that goes by the truth becomes clearer.
As for Kerry, people are really going to respond to him when prime time comes around. (Convention time.)
According to my local paper, Kerry's speech at Westminster college went very well. He never mentioned bush or chaney by name, either.
Phil - my father, a hard - core non-religious conservative of the "fuck you I got mine" strain, is disgusted with Bush's fiscal irresponsibility and the quagmire in Iraq. (he was for the war before it started but I give him a pass on him pretending he wasn't)
He actually uses the "i" word (impeach).
So I think you can count him in the 'won't vote for Bush' camp. Though I am not sure he will vote Kerry, he's still a big-time anti-Democrat. I think it's 50-50 between a Kerry vote and not voting for President.
Happy International Labor Day, everybody!
By the way... THANK YOU, TENA!!! for opening up a new comment thread
Philalethes,
I knew a Bush voter, but then I saw her stading on the edge of a cliff, and well, the devil got the best of me.
Is it really that surprising that Iraqi prisoners would be abused and humiliated by soldiers or mercenaries from the US? How many people working in Iraqi prisons are also prison guards in the United States? The ironic thing is that Iraqi prisoners are protected by the Geneva conventions, while US citizens in US jails have no such protections.
Bush stated the actions portrayed in those photos are not representative of American society. Who does the president think he's kidding? Such abuse, humiliation and torture are belovedly referred to as "hazing" in the good ol' US of A. The tradition, which seems to be gaining in popularity, is as American as high school football, fraternity/sorority indoctrination, boot camp and prison life.
Links here.
Education. (with real money).
NPR had a peice on yesterday,about the state of Colorado and their higher education woes.It seems the g'vnah,a rethug,and the legislature have come up with an idea of a voucher system to provide "competition" for the state funded universities.
Well I heard the g'vnah comeout and say how the education system is so underfunded and how they need to come up with new ways to fund it.
I wanted to crawl thru the radio and throttle the hypocrate.It is clear the education system is underfunded,but it is because of the policies comming out of washington that is the reason.This idiot,the state of colorado elected,would have no quarrel with the well documented failures of the current failure in the executive office,keeping business as usual. When it is evident that the GOOPERS have a problem with spreading tax money to the underpriviledged to go to school,the goopers will never come out and try and change the system in favor of the majority.
It will take more tombstone policies to change,what is becomming more evident,failures of the right.It will be a long time for that to happen,because education does not cause death,right?
Philalethes - I know several people who voted for Bush last time who have said they wouldn't vote for him again under any circumstances. If you remember, Bushtheenoconendtimerwolf ran in moderateniceguysheep's clothing. There is no longer any doubt at all about what he really is. Like Janeane Garafolo, I have come to believe that continuing to support Bush at this juncture is a character flaw.
Only a few hours left of chimpy mcflightsuit day!
Check out uggabugga's version of the new Iraqi flag:
http://uggabugga.blogspot.com/
Play nice - I've got to go. Make excuses for me when the boss gets back - you can tell him that you whined and nagged until I finally opened a thread. ; )
Like Janeane Garafolo, I have come to believe that continuing to support Bush at this juncture is a character flaw.
Tena
that's awesome.
...and my girlie and i just caucused, and we know @ ten repentent bush voters...
Thanks, Tena et al...seems like everyone I know knows a couple of Bush turncoats, and can tell similar stories. And the idea that Gore people would be supporting Bush--especially now--is untenable. So it seems like vote-stealing is W's only hope.
This simple logic didn't stop Neal Conan from saying on NPR the other day, "So, can we at least assume that Kerry will probably carry some percentage of the people who voted Gore in 2002?"
Fair and balanced, huh?
He actually uses the "i" word (impeach).
Funny how many old school repubs are buying into this administration's fuckups. They did give them the benefit of the doubt, but no, the bushies fucked it up.
They went after the young ones, but, alas, their bloodlust wasn't satisfied or satisfying. Funny how sitting in front of a computer just doesn't do it for a young male who enjoys a kill.
Those guys don't have rewarding
personal relationships.
*shrug*
As he's mentioned here before, Stirling is Jim Newberry's brother, and is involved in the campaign...
old school repubs who aren't buying, that is
BTW, here's Jim's blog... pretty good stuff for a candidate!
Zeke:
Just as Kerry voted to give Bush carte blanche over Iraqi with the Gulf of Tonkin II resolution. He won't have the guts to pull out of
Iraqi (it's a matter of pride). He will become this generations LBJ.
But wait, I forgot, there are no similarities between Vietnam and Iraq what-so-ever.
thanks dave.
anon - how thoughty of you to do all that for John Kerry. Why, you've got every single tiny little micromanaged detail worked out. I suppose you are writing the platform for your state's Democratic party, too. Good on you - ya putz.
Tena
OK then, other than rolling back the rich person tax cuts (and cutting taxes on business) what, exactly is Kerry saying he'll do if elected?
I happen to think people need to hear some details. Quite a few of them will vote for Nader if Kerry doesn't distinguish himself from Bush, and then what? Bush wins.
The 'list' I made was an example of things Kerry could talk about if he wasn't rising to Rove's bait.
Renato:
he was for the war before it started but I give him a pass on him pretending he wasn't
Good move! That's the hardest thing for people, I think...you can't blame them for finding it hard to face up to the unmitigated horror and stupidity of this war, and to accept that they had a hand in making it happen. So I'm all for amnesty...no saying "I told you so" to anyone who sincerely changes his or her tune.
Besides, though I was against it from day one, I could always have done more...which makes me culpable too.
I've been thinking the Kerry Campaign should shift gears and campaign against Dick Cheney.
Eventually the media will catch on (if Rove says its okay), and ask why the Kerry campaign is ignoring Bush and discussing only Cheney.
The answer should be: "This election is about who will lead this country starting in 2005, and we just want to make sure America understands more about who's been leading it for the last four years." And leave it at that (though I'm sure the phrasing could be improved).
There are many Americans who choose not to be fully informed about how truly awful this administration has been, but will choose Bush based on his "likeability" (his fake folksy ways and his moronic babbling [which often seems to interpreted that he is just an average Joe, despite the fact that the average Joe does not babble moronicly] seem to work for him). If people realized that in truth they are voting for that sinister smirking cyborg that hides in caves, they might think twice.
JR That wasn't the devil that inspired you- that was God.
Tena
Saturday Night Special you wish. on the other hand, please, please let fitzgerald connect rove to plame. then i will believe in god again.
and i will get me an old copy of Three Dog Night and play 'Jerimiah was Bullfrog' so loud the neighbors will have to call the police.
Probably 4-5 people in my family voted for shrub the last time. They've all repented and are going to vote for Kerry. Except my fundie brother and his wife. They're still for shrub but I bet I can convert them before they can convert me.
OK, this being an open thread, here's my question - it's a bit self-serving, since I live in central NJ - but in all the noise about the Sept. 11 committee and Iraq, a potential zinger of an issue for Kerry has fallen by the wayside. Uh, Mr. President, how's the hunt for the *other* terrorist of 2001 going? I mean, of course, the anthrax attacks - how have these disappeared from the news? And why isn't Kerry asking about this - talk about a fucktup investigation. Specifically, Mr. President, are we any closer than we were 2.5 years ago to knowing what the fuck happened?
you're right dave, really good stuff (scroll down)
Over the past three and one-half years we have witnessed a shocking concentration of power in the hands of the wealthy benefactors of the Bush administration and its political allies. No aspect of this phenomenon is more dangerous to freedom than the increasing concentration of media ownership. The Murdochs and Sinclairs of this world have no regard for freedom of speech
I happen to think people need to hear some details. Quite a few of them will...
Not. Where do you live? There's no way the n word is going to make a difference.
Anti-Gay Medical Bills Spread to Other States
Full Story
by Paul Johnson
365Gay.com Newscenter
Washington Bureau Chief
Posted: April 29, 2004 5:16 p.m. ET
(Washington, D.C.) Legislation that could be used by doctors and nurses who object to homosexuality to deny gays treatment or prescription drugs is now being considered in six states.
The Michigan house last week passed the Conscientious Objector Policy Act. The legislation would allow health care providers to assert their objection within 24 hours of when they receive notice of a patient or procedure with which they don't agree. However, it would prohibit emergency treatment to be refused. (story)
The bill is now before the Senate Committee on Health Policy
Similar legislation is being considered in Minnesota, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington and West Virginia.
"Tragically, these bills allow doctors to discriminate," said Human Rights Campaign President Cheryl Jacques.
"Even now, the GLBT community avoids medical treatment at an alarming rate. This package could have a devastating effect on the community."
If passed the bills would allow refusal of treatment for specific medical conditions that uniquely affect the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community, including hormone therapy for transgender people and assisted reproduction for same-sex couples.
(Snip...) More at link above
I've been thinking the Kerry Campaign should shift gears and campaign against Dick Cheney.
Not a bad idea...what's Cheney's favorability rating these days? 26 percent or something? It could also broaden the split between the "stick to principles" GOPers who actually back Bush because of Cheney, and the anything-to-stay-in-power cynics. Getting Bush to dump Cheney is probably close to impossible...but if he did, I think he'd fracture the Repubs beyond all hope of repair.
Theanthrax was just another Rovian diversion.
Phil - actually what bothers me is my father's usual habit of thinking he's putting one over on me. I don't want to say "I told you so" so much as, "Excuse me, you were the one saying, 'I think Bush knows something he can't tell us' before the war! I remember exactly where we were when you said that, so don't deny it!"
But... I've learned by now that it's useless to point out his FLIP-FLOPPING. And besides, my (poisoned) relationship with my father is entirely another story...
Pimp wrote:
Just as Kerry voted to give Bush carte blanche over Iraqi with the Gulf of Tonkin II resolution. He won't have the guts to pull out of
Iraqi (it's a matter of pride). He will become this generations LBJ.
It's a distinct possibility, and a very worrisome one. Then we'll get Jeb in '08 saying he's got a "secret plan to end the war"...
Pay no attention to what I said on May 1st 2003. Pay attention to what I said I said.
happen to think people need to hear some details. Quite a few of them will...
Not. Where do you live? There's no way the n word is going to make a difference.
pie
My point is that Kerry needs to articulate a positive vision for the future, and not let himself be defined on the defensive. A vision requires some details, not just platitudes.
smalfish- NPR's attempt to "balance" the story left people with impression that the new college tuition vouchers in CO might actually work.
Unfortunately there is not a chance is hell that these vouchers will *not* mean the death of at least one or two of the state colleges if things are left the way they are.
The GOP legislature has already used these vouchers as a rational to write off any general funds going to higher ed. These assholes claim that schools will compete for Colorado students and hence, the winner will get all the money they need, but simple math can tell you that it won't work. The moeny generated by vouchers is only a fraction of what the schools were directly given by the state.
This should come as no surprise since the Gov. of CO tried to appoint a college president with no higher ed experience and only a BA. (I may have some of the specifics of that charge wrong, but it was an assinine idea that fortunately got shot down)
Within a couple of years, the state will either have to give up on their pledge of no direct funding... or CO will lose at least one or two state schools.
... And remember this grand experiment when the wing-nuts actually get a primary school voucher plan through that doesn't get shot down by the courts. I assure you that they will use it as an excuse to drown public schools in a bath-tub.
Now that CA has decertified DIEBOLD, and is threatening criminal and civil charges, will the rest of the states, except FL., follow?
Renato:
Sounds tough...my condolences! My parents have consistently been on the right side of history, thank God, which has made things a lot easier for me. (In some ways, I'm thankful my mother didn't live to see what this country became after 9/11). I know I'm in a lucky minority, having a family that isn't at each other's throats over that smirking waste of skin in the White House...
Tena says...
"Barry Champlain - Let the NYT talk - when Kerry kicks into gear they ain't going to know what hit 'em. That's what everyone who knows him says - he goes along quietly until something rouses him and then he is absolutely unstoppable."
I realize it's early and all, only May. But I'm waiting. Been waiting. And I'm hoping something rouses him pretty damn soon, because after the last several months I'd have hoped he'd be pulling ahead of Bush, rather than just be tied.
Look at what's going on, look at what's happening - in the campaign, in the country, in the war, and in the world. If he's really waiting for something to rouse him, God hope that we survive whatever it might take.
Just to make that more clear, Renato, I mean it would be awful to have normal (or abnormal) tensions between family members take the convenient form of bickering over politics, as I've seen happen to a lot of my friends' families...
My mom is a 77 Year old RN and administrator of a nursing home. She can't even stand to look at smirk. She is fully cognizant of the medicare screw job that the seniors got.
JR That wasn't the devil that inspired you- that was God.
veritas
With all these winger claims about the workings of god these days, I often confuse the two.
A vision requires some details, not just platitudes.
Closer to November.
Not before.
Has there been any coverage besides Sy Hersch's New Yorker piece on Abu Ghraib talking about Joe Darby, who had the guts to blow the whistle?
The more I think about it, this is a mind-bending act of moral courage. You know he's going to suffer terribly for it (if he hasn't already).
More here.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 05.01.04 - 9:43 pm | #
This was discussed two(?) weeks ago here. Check the archives. It's less about gays and more about abortion rights.
Anon Cow:
I realize it's early and all, only May. But I'm waiting. Been waiting. And I'm hoping something rouses him pretty damn soon, because after the last several months I'd have hoped he'd be pulling ahead of Bush, rather than just be tied.
I'm with ya. But remember, Kerry had been completely written off in the primaries. And even without the media's Dean takedown he pulled off a pretty impressive comeback. As Tena says that's been a consistent pattern throughout his political life...
If he chooses that fucker Gephardt for VP, though...I'll be really disgusted.
As for Nader...I think there's a BIG percentage of those people that either won't vote at all, or will vote Nader even if Kerry starts promising to pull out of the WTO and revoke corporate "personhood." The actual percentage of Naderites who can be lured down from the Ivory Tower at this point is very small indeed, I think. So I'm not going to worry about what they think, and I don't think Kerry should either.
Where's O'Reilly? The bitch must be cowering on his radio show! Hey culero, since you are so macho I'LL INVITE YOU TO A NO hOLDS MATCH!
Bring it on culero!!
Phil, I won't even get into my mother. I love her dearly (unlike dad) but she is hard-core Bush as it gets.
She's also spectacularly uninformed about issues. At Easter, the subject of politics (ruh roh) came up. She actually brought up the "Hillary and Bill killed Vince Foster" crap.
I changed the subject as quickly as possible. When someone starts talking serious tinfoil hat batshit like that, it's time to talk about something else.
"Closer to November.
Not before.
pie
I'm sorry if I'm stupid and don't get it, but why? WTF, exactly, is he waiting for?
greg palast coming up on laura flanders!!!
You must be a CERTIFIED heterosexual to receive medical treatment.
The certification process is obscure but very thorough.
pimp and zeke,
chill out.
With regards to the Viet Nam comparison, we are now far beyond Viet Nam in terms of the lies. Bush makes Nixon seem like a amatuer.
Further, the long-term non-battlefield consequences of this fiasco will far outweigh those of the Viet Nam war.
However, it is extremely unlikely that we will have anywhere near the body count of Viet Nam. The Iraqis just won't accept it. Seriously, they are just a few more American fuck-ups before they kick us out. A lot of people will die on both sides for a period of time, but then we will have to pull out.
RENATO- use the parental lock on your mom's cable and block Faux. Apparently since she is very uniformed she is watching that crap.
Phil,
I know of at least 2 people who voted for Bush who will not be voting for him this year. One of them was a woman I met at a Dean meetup who had voted Republican her entire life.
According to my local paper, Kerry's speech at Westminster college went very well. He never mentioned bush or chaney by name, either. old white lady
i saw the speech on cspan. he was introduced to thunderous applause. then during the speech in which he laid out his plan for iraq. he continued to get steady but moderate applause. he did not crititsize personality but pointed out flaws, and errors made to date. it wasn't a snoozer, but he should get some one on the ticket with a little charisma edwards or clark, clark is my fav. still in the end it's going to have to be him, as tena points out, he's just on cruise for now. when he gets pissed, and he will get pissed, then he will lay these repugs out like the pigs they are. as far as iraq goes, he might have to rework his plan, 'cause i think that's a lost cause.
Renato, that sounds pretty grim. But don't give up hope completely...I had a friend whose mother was a hardcore dittohead (along with everyone in her small Texas town). And while she's still conservative on a lot of issues, she HATES Bush at this point. For a lot of these people, the wheels are turning...
Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I think some of these people are going to abandon ship when given a conservatively acceptable reason that doesn't carry the emotional baggage of the war...
Then again, when I'm lying awake at 3 am, I believe we're a few months away from a Civil War...
Have a nice night, y'all. I'm going to have a drink and try to clear my mind of politics for a while...
"I've been thinking the Kerry Campaign should shift gears and campaign against Dick Cheney."
It would be nice if Kerry would actually just campaign against Bush instead of agreeing with him so much on the war, Israel-Palestine, Patriot Act...
anyone out there regularly read the spectator[spectator.co.uk]?
if so, did you see[read] the essay by william shawcross, THE CYNICISM OF THE DEFEATISTS in the 24/4/04 issue?
this is the author of Sideshow.
what has happened to him?
when do you think he became an asset of the bush/blair intelligence services?
it is a most astonishing essay. and so thoroughly inaccurate.
Only a few hours left of chimpy mcflightsuit day!
Oh too bad. I can never get enough of the ole' flight-boy-stuffed-sausage-strut.
Closer to November.
Not before.
pie
Then Kerry is no more than a target for millions $ in attack ads & speeches etc, has to defend and ends up looking like a loser. By the time he gets to his message, Big Media will have totally 'Gored' him. He needs to go on the idea offensive and make the attacks look silly.
And I thought it was bad that my mother watches Good Morning America (though no more after Charlie's slamming Kerry last week. He, he!)
I'd like to see someone really take on Big Bad Bill. He's such a glass jawed phony. Wants everyone to think he's an Irish street kid when he's just another suburban wannabe.
Rick Barton= the Israel people are overwhelmingly in opposition to the give back of Gaza strip. Sharon's Likud party may throw him out. You know if WTF Bush is for a plan it is automatically fubar.
Spoke-Too-Soon Dept:
On 5/2/03, Richard Perle penned a gloating postwar op-ed piece in USA Today entitled "Relax, Celebrate Victory."
It was even published on the State Department website, until being taken down (surprise!) about a week ago:
usinfo.state.gov/regional/nea/iraq/press/
0502perle.htm
But if you want to see it in its full ironic glory, you can find it below. Boy, I'd love to see Tim Russert throw this in his face...
http://www.benadorassociates.com...com/article/
801
You wouldn't be the Rick Barton from Maine, would you?
Here we go again! Those crazy ass Catholic bishops just going all wild!
SOUTH BEND, Ind. (AP) -- Indiana Gov. Joe Kernan's high school alma mater withdrew an invitation for him to speak at commencement because his stance on abortion conflicts with Roman Catholic teachings.
St. Joseph High School took the action at the direction of Bishop John M. D'Arcy of the Diocese of Fort Wayne-South Bend, who has direct authority over the school.
D'Arcy said Friday that the school's theology teachers believed the Catholic governor's appearance would contradict moral truths they teach and expect students to embrace.
``I am in full agreement with these teachers,'' D'Arcy said.
A spokeswoman for the governor, Tina Noel, said he supports a woman's right to choose abortion, in consultation with her family, physician and spiritual advisers, although he is personally opposed to abortion.
In 1998, D'Arcy did not object when Kernan, as lieutenant governor, delivered the commencement speech at the University of Notre Dame. D'Arcy even shared the dignitaries' platform with Kernan, which the bishop now says ``seemed to me to be the right response in that situation.''
A top Vatican cardinal said in April that priests may deny Communion to Catholic politicians who support abortion rights. The decision remains up to individual bishops.
Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry has received the sacrament at his home church in Boston since the Vatican announcement; Boston Archbishop Sean O'Malley has indicated he would not withhold Communion from anyone.
The incoming leader of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Camden, N.J., said Thursday that he would not serve Holy Communion to New Jersey Gov. James E. McGreevey, a divorced Catholic who supports a woman's right to an abortion.
As far as the media ownership goes how can a great mass of peaple be so fucking stupid as to not at least try to make an informed decision for them selves like the General taking over in Iraq like is this the king of spades or the jack of diamonds the rape rooms are gone but it's time to break back out the wood chippers christ on a crutch
Then Kerry is no more than a target for millions $ in attack ads & speeches
I have to, respectfully disagree.
Remove the word *than*.
He's going to get attacked. But I'm waiting for the actual time when he will take office.
Sorry. That's the way it is.
Can't imagine Jeb and famiglia disenfranchising over a hundred thousand of their "brown brothers".
Palast said they did- Not Jebbie the good Bush?
In other words, when we're closer to the elections, he can lay it all out.
Why, on earth, should he say something now that will be attacked by the SCLM? /sarcasm
Remember Gore?
Fuck that.
The Bushies are self-destructing. The less John Kerry says, the better.
Perle says relax and enjoy it? Jesus fucking Christ what a douchebag.
I race fast
I race fast
And smarty, you won, in spite of the mud.
This was discussed two(?) weeks ago here. Check the archives. It's less about gays and more about abortion rights.
Read the actual bill. It's no less an attack on gays as it is on abortion. It specifically says that a mdical provider can refuse to provide service to anyone on moral grounds. It later goes on to say that such services cannot be denied to anyone on the basis of their membership in a group protected by another Michgan law. Gays are not covered by that law.
It's absolutely clear that the bill was written in a way that would allow providers to discriminate against gays.
Check out uggabugga's version of the new Iraqi flag:
http://uggabugga.blogspot.com/
I feel guilty, but I laughed really hard at that.
patriotboy, I'm not gonna get into an argument. It's as much about abortion rights as it is about discrimination against gays.
It's all there.
In either case, it sucks.
David Souter has maintained his simple, bachelor lifestyle. He brings his own lunch, consisting of apples and yogurt, to work everyday and lives in an undecorated apartment. He still returns home to Weare during the summer breaks where he climbs the local mountains and visits his mother.
The SSG that ran the prison in Iraq's mother is on Faux. Says her son is a scapegoat that was not properly trained. This guy is a correctional officer in civilian life with 6 years experience, and did not know that torture and humiliation is not ok?
JR- the bishops seem to be awful uptight now that homosexual pedophilia is a no no.
Wish I could join the party, but gotta turn in early tonight. Y'all behave yourselves.
The military-intelligence officers have “encouraged and told us, ‘Great job,’ they were now getting positive results and information,” Frederick wrote. “CID has been present when the military working dogs were used to intimidate prisoners at MI’s request.” At one point, Frederick told his family, he pulled aside his superior officer, Lieutenant Colonel Jerry Phillabaum, the commander of the 320th M.P. Battalion, and asked about the mistreatment of prisoners. “His reply was ‘Don’t worry about it.’”and here is to the seymour hersh article same one posted up thread just want to make sure people see it. can anyone say concentration camp. it's frankly more disgusting then the pictures.
"We will have to work in the shadows" Dick Cheney, on MTP
veritas,
the church hierarchy is using a classic example of political deflection.
I hate military-intelligence fascist pigs.
My family is mostly made up of conservatives. And crackers. I just spent a couple years studing my geneology and all the way back to the revolution, part of the family was on one side part was on the other. Now they're all almost as far right as you can get, and I'm up here close to canada(where I belong). Point? sorrry don't have a point.
This "only 20 out of thousands" argument is disengenuous in the extreme.
First, isn't it stretching the odds to think that the only time this kind of behaviour ever occurred just happened to be in front of a camera?
Second, one or two in thousands might be an abberation, but twenty or more acting in a group is clear evidence of a policy of abuse, at least within that jail. It is impossible to believe that these people would get together and act so outrageously and publically unless one way the other, they understood it was OK to so.
Look at them. They are in plain view, in "wide-open" areas within the prison, they have erected elaborate apparatuses and humiliations involving multipler prisoners, and they are mugging for the cameras.
They are not hiding, not nervous, not concerned their behaviour might be exposed. They are shit-eating-grinning and giving the big thumbs-up. It is absolutely impossible to accept that this practice is not condoned or even encouraged by every level of responsibility within that prison, and very likely higher.
Here is the thing about photos and images of the war. We as humans have a brain that is designed to react to visual stimuli.
Strong visual stimuli can elicit emotion. Emotion can lead to anger, depression, action.
These processes evolved to help keep us safe and allows us to interact in the world. We are also hardwired for stories as a way to make sense out of our surroundings and to learn.
By keeping these images away from us and substituting numbers-- which require abstract thought-- they are sidestepping the possibility for emotion, anger and action. With the numbers they aslo provide a narrative that tones down the horror or explains the reason for the horror.
We have a powerful need for stories (see our major movie and TV industry) to make sense of the world for us, entertain us and guide us.
By tapping into a story that ties in with latent beliefs --we are the good guys-- they hope to stop another, more unpleasant narrative to take it's place.
An important role of Air America and the left is to point out that by refusing to show images they are guiding choices that the right knows full well would be hard for people to stomache.
The right can't come out and say, "We are blocking this because if you see it you will tell us to stop." So they say, "We are blocking this because it we are respecting the people who died doing a noble thing." That narrative gives people a reason that they are blocking it so we don't dig deeper into the real reason images are blocked.
Intellectually people don't often change their minds on issues like war. It often comes down to a emotional or personal experience. Anything the admin can do to stop that people from having one of these experience allows them to keep waging war.
veritas, it's worse: he was looking for clarification on the differences between civil and martial prisons. Martial prisons: international relations, diplomacy, the dignity of Nations represented in their servicemen. Civil prisons, on the other hand...in Virginia...
Apologies for the all-italicised weirdness above. Mp post should have looked like this:
This "only 20 out of thousands" argument is disengenuous in the extreme.
First, isn't it stretching the odds to think that the only time this kind of behaviour ever occurred just happened to be in front of a camera?
Second, one or two in thousands might be an abberation, but twenty or more acting in a group is clear evidence of a policy of abuse, at least within that jail. It is impossible to believe that these people would get together and act so outrageously and publically unless one way the other, they understood it was OK to so.
Look at them. They are in plain view, in "wide-open" areas within the prison, they have erected elaborate apparatuses and humiliations involving multipler prisoners, and they are mugging for the cameras.
They are not hiding, not nervous, not concerned their behaviour might be exposed. They are shit-eating-grinning and giving the big thumbs-up. It is absolutely impossible to accept that this practice is not condoned or even encouraged by every level of responsibility within that prison, and very likely higher.
as far as Nader is concerned, I just can't get out of my head this insane thought that his plan is to work the nation up into as much as a tizzy as possible, then at the next to the last minute--say, in October--he'll either/or (1) bow out of the race and/or (2) throw his support to Kerry.
I know it sounds as if I'm on crack but that's my gut feeling.
"Why, on earth, should he say something now that will be attacked by the SCLM? /sarcasm" pie
oh yea she also said Fuck That
and she is right. kerry knows what he is doing. this ain't dukakis. there are a helluva lot of dumbfucks, think what bush is doing is right. just don't be one of them.
Julius, 9:09 p.m. I just pasted your post about Novak over here. I couldn't bring myself to listen to Novak, so I switched the channel when he began this. I thought I heard Shields say something about being in good standing with his bishop -- did he not try to rebut Novak, or was everyone caught off guard by Novak's outburst?
Just a few days!
http://www.jaboobie.com/olsen.html
Everybody should sic on Cheney, every chance they get. (And thanks, Dick, you sure keep those chances coming!)
Even the moonbats who think Shrub is cute should be forced to acknowledge that his sidekick is unelectably creepy.
NYT Op Ed (abstract) from the same day the photo above was taken:
EDITORIAL DESK | January 24, 2002, Thursday
Who Helped Cheney?
By John D. Dingell (NYT) 545 words
Late Edition - Final , Section A , Page 27 , Column 2
ABSTRACT - Op-Ed article by Democratic US Repr John Dingell scores refusal by Bush administration to turn over to Congress records of energy task force headed by Vice Pres Dick Cheney as lawmakers prepare to debate administration's energy proposals; notes Cheney's and president's strong ties to energy industry (M)
From a Tony Snow interview on Fox News a few days later:
{SNOW}: . . . . Is there anything in that energy plan that was done specifically for or at the behest of Enron?
CHENEY: I can't say. I'm sure they supported many parts of it.
We talked to them about their role. They were the world's leading energy trader. At the time that they were involved, they were heavily engaged in this whole process of trading energy. It was a whole new development with respect to the way the markets worked, and they had good advice to offer in terms of how you dealt with that situation.
Later,
SNOW: So who's got the better cave, you or bin Laden?
CHENEY: I think I do.
SNOW: Comfortable?
CHENEY: Nobody's trying to bomb mine.
Dick, Dick, Dick. Apart from everything else, a tad insensitive to the Pentagon families, no?
K&Y- are you saying what happened in Iraq prisaon is condoned in VA?
"The governor of the Islamic portion of Nigeria has ordered the destruction of all Christian churches. See attached link. This is outrageous, and outrageous that it gets no attention in the press."
Yet why should we care?
Why should we give a shit what happens to churchs in another country them get upset when Muslims show similar concerns about Muslims and Muslim mosques in Iraq and elsewhere around the middle east?
"I think it's very important for Kerry to come out strongly against Radical Islamic Fundamentalism and acknowledge what a threat it is to everything that Americans believe in,"
Christians haven't been persecuted since they took over the roman empire over 1700+ years ago. That's almost two millenium of dominance in this world. Maybe it's about time for them to shake in their boots for a while and feal legitimate pesecution?
"..then point out the the War in Iraq is completely counterproductive to that purpose, and then state how he intends to fight it."
Or he could try to win the bigot vote and say otherwise? Then when they foolishly toss their vote his way he can do the exact opposite when he gets into office?
"He should jump on something like this an be the first to condemn it publicly"
Then the republicans can say he's just an intolerant christian who is double-faced about who he defends. The republicans can point out their strong ties to Saudi Arabia as proof of their tolerance. Where's Kerry's token muslim supporters?
".make the American people feel at ease that he knows that there are people out there that wouldn't blink at setting off an A-bomb."
Any Americans who thinks he or any other person in this country are somehow ignorant of this fact are morons. What he should point out is that Bush is suffering delusions of grandeur brought on by his dry drunk state of mind. He thinks he is the reincarnation of christ and is doing the lords will. The man is insane.
"and what he's going to do to fight them, and so they can feel comfortable about kicking this moron Bush out of office."
The only way we are going to end this under Bush and the neocons is either in bloodshed or the total destruction and slavery of muslims under puppet governments meant to contain them and keep them pliant. The christian conservatives will never allow an outcome that somehow implies that islam is comparable to christianity. They are going to demand that they be given power to try and convert them all or else see them burn in the next inquisition.
MYOB'
.
OH MY GOD!!!!
My blog (click my name) just got visited by the biggest racist in America. I have a story on my blog about a few white porn actresses who got HIV infected by a black porn actor. I even got pics. How he got to my site I don't know. He left a comment (yes, racist) on my blog, with his name and a link to his homepage. I went there googled both his name and the websites name and I got visited by Kevin O'keeffe, leader of the National Alliance, the biggest neo-nazi group in the US.
I don't understand why the old, toothless, slurred speech, cia agent outing traitor Novak is on the air. What should he do before he ousted? Murder?
Ricky Vandal...
Flies and shit go together, eh?
Why, Ricky, what an honor! (I'll take your word for it and not click your name....)
Morfords 'review' of the Passion, worth a read. -)
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...1604.DTL&
nl=fix
MYOB- I think organized religion is the cause of most evil in the world.
lava, I agree -- between those eyebrows and those false teeth, it's hard to pay attention.
Flies and shit go together, eh?
What goes around, comes around.
veritas, and nation states, but what are you gonna do?
No ricky I won't click your name. You are one with the racist. Everything you write, along with Reg, Al and other trolls I ignore. I also ignore the deeper, deceptive poison of Eugene Volokh. Does Eugene Volokh still support Bush? What a loser...BUSH IS A CONTRADICTION OF EVERYTHING VOLOKH SAYS HE STANDS FOR.
Meanwhile, in Saudia Arabia, gunmen shoot dozens of people, kill 7, drag the naked corpse behind their getaway car.
Adding to the sense of confidence one must already have in the House of Saud:
"The kingdom will eliminate terrorism no matter how long it takes," Crown Prince Abdullah said in comments broadcast Saturday night on Saudi television.
SPA later quoted Abdullah telling a gathering of princes in Jidda: "Zionism is behind terrorist actions in the kingdom. I can say that I am 95 per cent sure of that."
Detailshere
Ricky- I'd click on your page, but my finger is tired. Jenna just left.
now here is what i am wondering, what could the defense dept. have said to CBS to make them hold off on telling the story? anyone know of any info. on this aspect of the story. this govt./media co-opt shit is really freak'n me out.
Charley - probably told them it would be unpatriotic to undermine the war effort. Remember they can not broadcast without a license and Colin's boy is in charge of FCC.
ben sargent, master cartoonist...
http://tinyurl.com/27aq8
We all know now that Bush junta is planning for war literally from inaugaration. Is this what they call planning? wow...
Did you guys see the photo in counterspin central? Mission accomplished.
veritas-not necessarily. But we've served with marines who were former civil prison guards, and in the marines there's this duty called "chasing" (random voluntold bastards become escorts for prisoners en route from jail to court and back), and there's an attitude in military treatment of POWs (the whole international angle) totally absent in locking up dangerous trash. Plus people are already overlooking/forgetting the fact that these kids were obeying orders-which does not absolve them, but which also strongly suggests this is indeed a war-on-terra-wide policy. There's bad things that happen in prison (period), but this was worse because intel mercs asked that it be made worse.
"I think organized religion is the cause of most evil in the world."
-veritas
You're 'preaching' to the choir here veritas.
At the point everyone's 'personal relationship with Jesus' suddenly became a mandatory group sharing event the world took a nose dive.
MYOB'
.
K & Y- I spent 8 years active duty army. We were taught about the Geneva Convention in basic training....
Oh and by the way. I am personally ashamed that Ricky's post followed mine. If only I had waited another minute or two I'd have been safe from having people read my post then become sickened by his.
For crying out loud Ricky you freak, you think Jenna is going to date you if you got HIV-spreading porn pictures on your site?
The last thing in the world a Bush women wants to see are naked black men. It's be the first time they'd seen a dick over 4 inches in their life.
That's why Neal Bush likes hanging out in asian whore houses. Over there they're used to having men with small wangers.
MYOB'
.
MoDo is mad.
I don't think she wagered on me, it would have lightened her mood.
Anyone read Brooks' stupid column in the NYTimes about Chicago's sexual markets? (or whatever the fuck he was trying to say) Chicago denizens will note he left out the white Republican hook-up sites of Rush street and Lincoln Park.
I live in Illinois, and there are few if any ads from Bush or Kerry here as they have written this off as a Dem state through and through. We have a new Dem governor, the fine Dick Durbin as Senator and the equally fine Barack Obama will be elected our other Senator. Democrats control both the state house and senate by wide margins.
No need to spend precious dollars here for ads.
In the battleground states, much money is being spent by both candidates, and there is where the fight is taking place.
So if you don't think that Kerry is effectively campaigning, you might be in a state that is already in the Kerry column.
MYOB- but without the group there would be no group of elders telling us what to believe, as they pass the collection plate.
By keeping these images away from us and substituting numbers-- which require abstract thought-- they are sidestepping the possibility for emotion, anger and action. With the numbers they aslo provide a narrative that tones down the horror or explains the reason for the horror.
So what do you think Wolfowitz was doing with his underestimate of killed soldiers the other day? That was beyond stupid and he had an ulterior motive, don't you think?
Tin foil,
how is Obama doing? I really haven't heard much at all about the race. Same with Colorado.
Tin Foil Mad Hatter- In the NW burbs of Chicago w commercials are on CNN all morning and afternoon.
I spent 8 years active duty army. We were taught about the Geneva Convention in basic training....
veritas | Email | Homepage | 05.01.04 - 11:08 pm | #
What the fuck are you talking about? How exactly do immoral soldiers obeying the orders of intel mercs and our implication of civilian prison guard abusiveness multiplied by bigotry have anything do with your doubtless unimpeachable service? Did we say, "clearly veritas taught these people to how to cook infants in basic training"? Did we say that? Who the fuck said anything about you?
veritas,
that seems like a waste of money; but then again, with $180,000,000...
Smarty Jones- my money is on Obama.
i have insomnia and that's the only reason i caught this during the 2 hours in the middle of the night that this was on CNN.com
SKOPJE, Macedonia (AP) -- Macedonian police gunned down seven innocent immigrants, then claimed they were terrorists, in a killing staged to show they were participating in the U.S.-led campaign against terrorism, authorities said Friday.
[more]...
http://cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe...m.ap/
index.html
add this
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middl...ast/
3672891.stm
which originally ran under a headline of something like 'Jordan Bomb Threat Exaggerated' but i can't find it anymore.
When we orignally waged our 'war on terrorism' and 'preemptive strikes' i was afraid that they were going to be umbrellas under which countries would be able to launch bold aggressive operations against internal opposition parties and even other countries. Now i can also fear countries acting out aggressions in order to prove that they're fully engaged with the US.
The happy go lucky mo do is really pissed.
Go smarty jones. You rule, horsie.
K & Y- Calm down, I was just saying that the Geneva Convention is taught in basic to everyone. Not just me. If I offended you in some way, I apologize, Now FUCK OFF ASSHOLES.
Smarty:
Obama is the man. He's a non-machine Democrat who has appeal across a wide variety of voter groups. The machine folks will back him because he beat the piss out of their boy in the primary and now they have no choice; good govt libruls like meself love him; he has walked the walk *bigtime* as far as poverty/economic oppty and race issues go, and, to top it off he happens to be a person of color with intellectual credentials that would make Daniel Patrick Moynihan somewhat jealous. Short of dead girl or live boy type of scandal, he's looking gooood.
Jerome Armstrong of MyDD is back blogging, with a new scoop site and a taste for the center in politics. His big story - how there is a large block in the middle of American politics that is looking for which way to turn, but is not yet sure where to go.
Recent events may well be the key - beginning a general revulsion with the way hypocrisy is the ideology of the right wing hypocracy.
Democrats need to really focus on getting nader out of the race. Learn about nader at my blog.
I believe John Kerry will win this election. I believe Americans are not stupid. More than 50% voted for Al Gore in 2000. During that time country is prosperous, no wars, not that many pissed people. Compare that to 2004. Lots of angry people, we are killing and killed and we don't know for what? This is bad for incumbent govt.,. Is it not?
I love Barack Obama. I stable in St. Lou when I'm not racing or in Philly, and I got to see his great campaign ads. They make fast horses want to cry.
spocko that was some righteous shit.
oldwhitelady: I remember you in the Babar stories.
The happy go lucky mo do is really pissed.
A friend of mine reads MoDo to his wife in bed every Sunday morning. My point being that MoDo has wide appeal to the crowd that spends maybe five minutes a day thinking about politics. She has been hammering Bush to her crowd, just like Stern has to his. Every little bit helps.
[while "fucking off", which we take to mean "helpfully masturbating"]
You're "apologizing" after your phrasing?
[seguing into a new riddle]
The basic training idea is also problematic. This might be different in the army, but there is wild fluctuation in how basic training gets done, what gets included, especially lately. We actually got, in addition to the dilatory "law of war" class, these little cards with important points about conduct in black and white, as well as more classes. Thing is, we were active and had volunteered to go early to a setting-up-thing in Kuwait. These reservists might be getting grabbed as needed, they certainly aren't getting as many classes, and the teaching of Geneva back in basic training certainly seems moot in the case of receiving, as the army freely admits they did, orders from these contractors in a conformist culture and amid racist anger.
So the real issue is not exactly how could this possibly have happened (especially for people too naive to have expected this) but what is happening to stop the other places?
Hello and Pardon me,
Has ANYBODY read The Rise Of The Vulcans by James Mann? (which is from what I've read and heard a pretty flattering book about Dubya's cabinet members like Condi, Powell, Rumsfeld, etc. etc.?)
I'm just wondering which is worse - Mann's book or 10 Minutes From Normal by Karen Hughes?
ALSO here's another question for EVERYBODY - Do you think that Bob Woodward's new book Plan Of Attack REALLY paints Bush in a positive light or not?
Daily Howler seems to think it does but I just don't see their p.o.v. on this one.
K & Y agreed, torture and humiliation is not acceptable and must be stopped. If the hired contractor (mercs) are running the prisons our country is in more trouble than I thought.
Slightly obscene but is MoDO woody material or what?
Did you know it took Cheney six years to get a bachelors degree including dropping out of Yale, and during that time he got four deferments? A sixth came along later for his daughter who was born nine months and two days after the military stopped taking men with children. Hmmmm.
Also, great column on chickenhawks from CBS's Dick Meyer.
Did you know it took Cheney six years to get a bachelors degree including dropping out of Yale, and during that time he got four deferments? A sixth came along later for his daughter who was born nine months and two days after the military stopped taking men with children. Hmmmm.
Also, great column on chickenhawks from CBS's Dick Meyer.
It's the Saturday night special
got a barrel that's blue and cold
ain't good for nothin
but put a man six feet in a hole
Thanks Lynyrd Skynyrd!
Friedman just found out their is a country called China and it has a lot of people.
Plan of attack is dubious, Woodward isn't giving the full story I think he left out a few things
POPPY- Cheney had more important things to do- like serving himself. It appears he succeeded beyond his wildest dreams.
UPDATE.
Kevin o'keeffe, the leader of the biggest neo-nazi group in the US, who left a comment on my site about the porn actors also left a comment about my Sudan and war on terror post. Actually he's giving me a tonguelashing for saying terrorists are like Hitler. Check it out!
Chris-Bush is so awful that Woodward's softball Priviledged Journalist worship pieces become damning. Woodward couldn't go after Bush the way a better journalist (like Bernstein) could, but the sad thing is Bush is so horrible Woodward's books become damning without trying. Recall there was stuff in the earlier book that seemed either innocuous or complimentary at the time. Plus-and this seems to be Howler's main problem-Woodward does have this idiotic (literally, in the original sense of "idiot") ONE FACT
AT A
TIME style warmed-over from bad action movies. Homer did a similar thing with tense in the Iliad. The idea is, by slowing things down, YOU ARE THERE...but without restraint and skill it is very easy to just sink into DICK AND JANE. See also Franken's dead-on parody. Come to think of it, it's also kind of like being trapped with a teenager and dodging UM, LIKE, OKAY and
OH
MY
GOD
every sentence. Woodward loves his Preznit.
Ricky if the neo-nazis or neo-cons (not much difference) are after you, run boy run. Idaho would be a good place to hide from them.
I'm okay and doing much better. Fortunately, I was able to beat off my attackers. Er, I was able to get those jerks off of me. Come on, you know what I mean. My doggie really had to go.
poor ricky, no one visits his Amazone paean site
even with the freakshow-attraction of neo nazi historiography
Streaker
I think that Wolfowitz knew full well what the death count is. Ted Koppel gave him cover in an interview with Al Franken on The O'Franken Factor on Air America. Ted talked about how much you have to stay on top of etc. etc. I think it falls under the "How much do you weigh?" catagory. You say "185." They say, "Well let's weigh you. Hmmm. You are actually 208 pounds."
You are thinking about a number that you don't feel so bad about, one you can live with. You know you are over 185, but you don't want to say it out loud. You avoid scales, you avoid thinking about it and focus on other things.
He will probably say something like, "I was refering to an earlier number. I was referring to ONLY US men or only US infantry. Or some sort of number that works out to 500. He also might know the number but he is so buried in other horrible numbers that that is the only one he could bring out of his war fevered brain.
But I just think he was lying. And trying to make it seem like fewer dead than there really are. If keep saying 500 maybe the American people won't remember it is closer to 800.
They don't talk about the correct numbers for the same reason that we don't EVEN KNOW THE EXACT NUMBER OF DEAD IRAQs. If they mentioned the actual numbers so saw photos people might actual be repulsed by the fact that we are killing the people we are supposed to be "liberating"
Dead Iraqs don't count to us. I think that is just sad.
Stay away from The Bushes!
"Neo-Nazi tongue-lashing"?
Ricky, you devil!
Cereal Breath. Thank you.
By the way, I'm not just pulling these ideas out the thin air. I'm basing some of these thoughts on the following books:
How the Mind Works by Steven Pinker
Why We Buy. The science of shopping by Paco Underhill.
The Argument Culture : Moving from Debate to Dialogue Deborah Tannen and
A Mathematician Reads the Newspaper and INNUMERACY - Mathemathical Illiteracy and Its Consequences, by John Allen Paulos.
You aren't Justice Souter- come on Rush I recognize your bashing...
No! Instead of running (which real man Bush would never do), Ricky should rely on Amazones to defend him! We're still disturbed by the idea of "patriarchal amazones" (is this like the SCUM Men's Auxiliary? Self-hatred? Wouldn't a patriarchal god be fundamentally repugnant...never mind). But you see Nazis hated women, they coined the phrase "family values", they were always railing against the progresses of the decadent Weimar era, women going to university, etc. So this would be like putting Ashcroft in a carefully decorated fraternity house with some cats, natural enemies and all that.
My doggie never has to go because he's high on Lorcet. Fortunately, he's a golden retriever and not some ghetto dog so the police never give him any trouble. He's barks a lot, or that what I'm told: I went deaf for some reason a few years ago.
Tena rocks!
Since this is an open thread, might as well put some spam related program activities in the mix (for all Blogger users).
I'm trying to find someone interested in swapping Gmail names. I accidentally got stuck with EUROPE and am experiencing 'unintentional buyer's remorse'.
If you check out the link, it's the second post.
Can Spam
Spocko- marketing studies are very interesting, I'm just glad not everyone falls for the ploy. Like if you use the right breathmint chicks can't resist ya. Agreed though that pictures and stories are most powerful images.
This is a weblog entry everyone who thinks that Bush "supports the troops" or "has the best interests of the troops at heart" should read. The writer is a veteran of the Afghani and Iraq wars who served two terms of duty as a communications officer and came back on 9/21/03. While there he began reading Salam Pax and Riverbend (and actually began to exchange emails with Riverbend once he got stateside).
But what he has to say about how the armed forces are strongarming, blackmailing and otherwise pressuring troops whose service is almost up to re-enlist via a combinations of false promises, veiled threats and shaming is disgusting. It is the answer to one of the questions many have been asking--how is the armed forces dealing with the shortage of troops?
And the answer, apparently, is to coerce their enlisted men and women to re-enlist, at risk to their health and sanity.
I also heard a BBC interview on NPR tonight with a mother whose wounded son was sent back to Iraq despite having been hospitalized after an explosion and being treated for post-traumatic stress disorder.
Support the troops? Bush regards them as cannon fodder for his dreams of empire and oil, and is exploiting the patriotism and honest desire to do good to send young people back into the maw when they've more than earned their release.
If you have a blog, please post this. More people have to hear what BushCo is doing to the troops he cynically claims to support. He doesn't dare reinstate the draft--not before the election, anyway--so this is how he is dealing with the shortage of boots on the ground.
He is more than a bad American president. He and his evil cabal of chickenhawks are thoroughly despicable human beings.
Kei and Yuri,
Let me make one thing clear to you. muslim terrorism IS Arab fascism. Islam is just a front for Arab fascism. So will you please stop being a terrorist apologist. Whether it be palestinian (the real palestine is Jordan by the way), iraqi or al qaida. It's fascism OK? Liberals are against fascists.
I resent the negative comments you people are spewing about our President. George W. Bush will go down in history as a great visionary leader, and you liberals will all be doing hard time in camps.
You scum.
Kei and Yuri,
I have a long post on this subject on my blog. Third topic from above, after the Anna Kournikova pic, the pics of the black porn actors and porn actresses. It's the one about Sudan.
Whenever I see w speak I always think of Mice and Men - Tell me the story again George- and then he kills me.
You scum.
Crappy - Please clarify if your referring to pond type scum, Bathroom scum, or other forms of scum before I respond.
sincerely,
I found a VEARY disturbing story at blackbox voting
It appears that they may be using the Patriot Act to circumvent some of the civil rights protections laid down in the 60s. You see, it is illegal for a government agency to go in and demand the list of all the members of a group. And you can't investigate leaks to journalists by going in and grabbing the reporter's computer.
After the Diebold memos were leaked, and my web site was shut down, around the time of the California recall election, I started getting solicited to accept VoteHere software. I didn't bite, because it was obvious that this was an entrapment attempt.
Here is a blatant misuse of the PATRIOT act.It seems we have a real jouralist trying to do her job,and the secret service wants to get her out of the way.
Now, I have been interviewed by the Secret Service on this VoteHere "hack" story about five times. They never spend much time on the hack. Most of the time is spent on the Diebold memos, which they claim they are not investigating.
This is some pretty stong stuff,if true I would think that it makes a strong case of government harraasment under the guise fo fighting terrorism.
I urge everyone to become at least somewhat informed on this story,it may become fodder in the future if not a dangerous warning to us all.
So, yesterday, they call me up and tell me they are going to subpeona me and put me in front of a grand jury. Well, let 'em. They still aren't getting the list of members of BlackBoxVoting.org unless they seize my computer -- which my attorney tells me might be what they have in mind.
Orwell, Ricky. Care with terminology, Ricky. Attention paid to gross ideological errors like "Bloody Secular Hammer-of-the-fundamentalists Saddam in bed with uncontrollable fundamentalists who are asking for his death", "Hitler is a leftist" or "an Amazon supporting a patriarchal male sky-god", Ricky. Muslim does not equal Arab nor vice versa, Ricky. We are against terror and-having, unlike you, actually served in the military to (some people think) the end of fighting same-and we are all tired of the idea[, which will be pushed with vigor when that story we brought up earlier, the Italian protester "connection",] that human rights and international law are somehow a tool of terrorist who by definition seek to destroy bothg concepts.
Shut up, Ricky.
Crappy- great American values you have. Locked up at hard labor because of dissent. George W. Bush is the WORSE unelected or selected president this country ever had.
poor ricky, no one visits his Amazone paean site
even with the freakshow-attraction of neo nazi historiography
g-dwina
---What do you mean?
my blog is in the top 100 of most visited weblogs according to the truth laid bear traffic ranking site. Kos and instapundit are number 1 and 2, atrios is 3.
Here's a poll for the trolls out there. Yeah, I know there are lots of nice and decent republicans and conservatives out there, but this poll is for the obnoxious wingers. Which best defines your style of republicanism/conservatism? Here goes:
1. Fuck you, I got mine, and don't change anything 'cuz I like the the way things are. I would categorize this type as the greedy right of center libertarian, the ones generally with the higher IQs, and part of the ruling oligarchy and power elite. The neocons would be a subset, but they're not so much into the greed thing.
2. The blacks, hispanics, and gays are taking over, and we gotta stop 'em crowd. Oops, forgot to include them muslims. I would categorize this type as the paranoid and racist ditto head grouping. Or what Stalin referred to as 'useful idiots' to the movement.
3. And finally, the assorted social conservatives, flag wavers, Christian fundies, moralists, and 'my country right or wrong' freeper crowd. These too suffer from a lot of angst, paranoia, and credulity. They generally believe that democrats, liberals, and people on the left are godless athiests who hate the U.S. They too are 'tools' and 'useful idiots' for the oligarchs.
OK trolls and you obnoxius ones, fess up.
Did anybody else get an expanded version of Ted Koppel last night? Here in Madison, they aired the first two segments of the name reading twice, then continued with the rest of the show. It lasted 55 minutes altogether.
K & Y ... you do realize that the only part of that Ricky understood was "Shut up, Ricky"???
I love these open threads. Did y'all see Frontline program the Jesus Factor the other night? Fucking scary. W, the born again Christian. What a fucking fraud. I'll bet his first gut reaction on seeing those photos of abuse was to chuckle...i really believe that. I mean, Jesus, he mocked Karla Faye Tucker begging for her life and told the whole Christian community (excluding the delusional motherfuckers like himself) to fuck off! Hey W, what fucking compassion you goddamned fucking war criminal pervert bastard.
So the feds are investigating Bev Harris for exposing the Repugs election theft efforts. Imagine that. Does the ACLU know about this? Everytime they get involved Ass Crack backs down for some reason....
S-A! T-U-R! D-A-Y! NIGHT!
Etc.
I wish I had something to say. I'm just worn out from rage and frustration.
Hey, is anyone else especially disturbed at the role of women in the Iraqi abuse "scandal" (savagery)?
We both feel stupider for trying to comprehend Ricky's Sudan post. "The CIA should bring in black Africans to fight the Khartoumists..." ughhhh.
I feel a little better hearing that they do go over the Geneva Conventions in basic.
Speaking of the contractors running the prisons...I find it odd that we have SOLDIERS rebuilding the schools (I saw footage today on fox with soldiers handing out school supplies to students!) and making soccor fields...and we have private companies taking on so many of the security and interrogation duties. This is privatization run amok. I'm not necessarily against capitalism but this situation would turn anyone off to it. I realize it's also being done in order to skirt responsibility and chain of command issues that arise when one finds it necessary to torture and humiliate 'the enemy' which makes it disgusting on so many levels.
VINNIE- w's idea of compassion is to hold photo ops with blacks. It's on his official website under compassion.
consider use of friday as a good day for bads news, made ridiculous by bush administration dumping of bad news almost every friday
consider all those clinic-bombers and doctor-murderers who were never expressly told to do specific stuff, never given actionable plans so to speak, just pushed and pushed and filled with panicked hate
now consider timing of pro-choice potentially very anti-Cheney Souter mugging
What is disgusting about the abuse stuff is that these sorry assholes, women too!, are trying to sluff off their actions on the fact they weren't trained properly. FUCK! What the fuck does it take to know right from wrong??
my blog is in the top 100 of most visited weblogs according to the truth laid bear traffic ranking site. Kos and instapundit are number 1 and 2, atrios is 3.
Ricky Vandal | Email | Homepage | 05.02.04 - 12:10 am | #
Ignore this guy.
It is completely obvious from this and other posts (hey guys, a racist is emailing me! Come look!), that all he is doing is trying to get as many hits as possible.
So please, ignore him, and whatever you do, don't visit his site.
"truth laid bear" - That is one HAPPY bear.
"Khartoumists" - I hope you don't mean CARTOONISTS!
Saturday night's alright for fighting.
Privitation is just another way for w to reward his friends with OUR money.
Veritas and Vinnie, Bush's posing w/ little black children is his pandering to the white suburban soccer mom vote.
I guess that they never went to kindergarden, where some people learn all they need to know. And women being involved is not surprising if they listen to Ann Coulter or Karen Huge as models of decorum.
"Whenever I see w speak I always think of Mice and Men" veritas
interesting, i could not quite put my finger on it, but i had the same reaction after his testimony, ah, i mean cordial meeting with the 9/11 commission. what was the big dumb ones name, Lenny, or was that George?
JFK had Bay of Pigs.
GWB has Bray of Prigs.
Ricardo- hope it won't work, but soccer moms are passe' it's NASCAR dads now...
I wonder what would have happened to Jessica Lynch had she been captured after the release of these photos?
On second thought, I don't wonder.
Lenny was the slow witted man, but he had a good heart..
Vinnie,
it sounds like a lot of really, really bad crap happened in a secretive section of the prison. The military-intelligence unit was telling these reservists to soften up the prisoners before interrogation. Told them that they were starting to get good results. They should have said fuck you, but this runs real deep. Check out the Seymour Hersh piece at the new yorker.
good thing i won my race today or i'd be really freaked out.
Any bets on how long the backlash against ANY U.S. media making a big deal about the Iraq prison story takes? This assumes any outlet will touch it. Some LSU "media historian" said only "political and media elites care about this kind of collateral damage." Nice.
In the photo,
of the young iraqi,
with the pointy black hood,
supposedly with two wires attached to his wrists,
why are there three wires?
Veritas, OK, throw in the Nascar dads assuming that crown is now racially enlightened. Regardless, it's meant more for clueless and undecided white voters.
Smarty, I've already read it. Good piece.
Chris Walsh- the Jessica heroism thing was another w propaganda ploy. There is nothing heroic about getting knocked unconscious in a smashed truck. The stories of shooting until her rifle was empty etc was bull. However; I do not blame her, she was just a pawn.
I wonder what would have happened to Jessica Lynch had she been captured after the release of these photos?
Take the anger that American's felt after the desecration of the bodies of four contractor merc's, multiply it by about ten, and that is the anger felt by Iraqi's about now toward American soldiers and contractors. I sure as shit would not want to be an American captive right now in the hands of some pissed off former republican guard soldiers or insurgents.
Ricardo, I doubt if many blacks fall for it. Anyone that follows politics at all knows that w has compassion only for the needy rich.
"George W. Bush will go down in history as a great visionary leader, and you liberals will all be doing hard time in camps.
You scum.
Crappy"
Well, Heil fucking Hitler to you, too, Crap.
Women are capable of torture, just as men are. Traditionally women have been brought up to be more pacific than men. It's one thing that should have been modernized the other way, i.e., we should have brought a few of the sane traditionally female values to universal use. Maybe we still will! I'm hopeful tonight as I went to a leftie meeting and won't feel so alone.
SNL has a really crappy w. Too bad what's his name (Will?) isn't still on. They should bring him back to special guest.
Just got back from the Seattle anti-anti-gay protest. Ahhh! Woo! Woo, woo woo!
chris/tx- damn good point. It sure won't help them have ANY compassion for Americans.
Veritas, the speaker of truth, you're right. Not a whole lotta blacks fall for that bullshit. As for the Iraqi prison fiasco, I think the game is starting to come to a close.
just shotgunned dowds' ed. i don't like her. she is one of the clowns. but she is a pretty one.
has anyone noticed that MSNBC used to report the total no. of dead? now they only report those killed in hostile action? changes the no. considerably, from 732 to 530 but dead is dead.
and as for the FCC veritas, it's freak'n CBS, if the FCC is weilding power that way (and i'm not saying they aren't) we are in deep shit.
and finally, i watched approx. 1 min. of nite line. i saw a George Bush Jr. and a Bill Frist. Unfortunately, while they died young their name sakes continue on in the lap of luxury. Irony? BASTARDS.
In the photo,
of the young iraqi,
with the pointy black hood,
supposedly with two wires attached to his wrists,
why are there three wires?
sin | Email | Homepage | 05.02.04 - 12:35 am
Yeah, I've been dwelling on that too, but I think we both know the answer.
Of all the senseless death and destruction this week, I actually know of one death I thought was pretty poetic. Did anyone hear about the South African covert merc? May the rest of them rot in hell soon, too!
http://tinyurl.com/3yvtl
Ricardo- If those pictures had not turned up, what was happening there would continue unabated. I imagine cameras will now be considered contraband in the military.
Where's my damn cheap gas?! Fuck this Iraq shit!
If Justice Souter was part of the conservative voting block on the court and a Democrat was in the White House, the right-wingers would be generating conspiracy theories by now that the Democrats had tried to kill him--and the mainstream media would be eating it up.
GTN
When Bush, Cheney and the rest of those fucking delusional cocksuckers are in the dock at The Hague, then and only then will all be right with the world.
Maureen Dowd's pretty decent looking. I'd pee in her butt.
Bubba - Article in Houston business section today said a lot of crude traders are going long on crude for this summer at $50/barrel, or about $2.50/gallon avg across US.
BUBBA- oil industry profits are soaring for some strange reason. I know though that Iraq oil profitswill pay for Iraq reconstruction cuz GW told usso.
supposedly with two wires attached to his wrists,
why are there three wires?
sin | Email | Homepage | 05.02.04 - 12:35 am
Yeah, I've been dwelling on that too, but I think we both know the answer.
MisterX
to quote Al Franken on the OyOyOy show "you don't want to know"
Veritas, yes, things would continue unabated. However, the pictures are just one more issue hastening the downward spiral. The game in Iraq may be coming to an end. The rest of the world knows the truth, but most of America is just catching up. What astounds me is that America is supposed to be one of the most advanced nations on earth, but large segments of the population are terribly uninformed and ignorant.
I'm glad that somebody fially noticed.
RICARDO- Americans are ignorant as Faux is where they get their news, or from local papers owned by large Repug media conglomurates. To have any idea what is going on they need to read papers from other countries.
Ricardo, America is supposed to be one of the most advanced nations on earth as you say, but it's also something continuously repeated in this country, something that I notice not being an American myself. I hear constantly the phrase:"We're the greatest nation on earth....", and I wonder if it isn't hearing this all the time that makes people happy to stay ignorant? Why bother trying to improve when you're told all the time that you are wonderful as you are?
I know that the phraze is just showing patriotism, but it does have a literal meaning which may not be desirable to keep on repeating like in a brainwashing experiment.
By the way guys, that Kevin O'Keeffe, the leader of the National Alliance, the biggest neo-nazi group in the US, he left his personal e-mail on the comments on my blog, so if you wanna say something "nice" to him, go ahead!
Americans are in denial. I know some major fucking blind ass idiots who think we are justified in being in Iraq. Goddamnit to hell! They a fucking blind and stupid and in denial. And most Americans don't give a shit.
Ricardo,
I think we're about one or two minutes before Sistani time. Then we'll have to pull out. That is one sly fellow. Sort of like Kerry. Let Bush fuck up on his own and then cash in the chips at the right time.
Hell, them Houston traders can kiss my grits. Iraq's pumping more now than before this damn war.
Sounds to me like y'all had a surplus of ex-Enron boys sitting around with time on their hands and they've decided to do some pumping of their own.
How long fore the crash you reckon?
why are there three wires? what does it imply?
It's a damned ground! Jeeeeez, don't you know anything about electricity?
sin |
The third wire. It goes to their tail.
I mean they are evil doers aren't the?. They aren't human are they?
Do you get the reverse image of the KKK hood. It is black and it is on the non-human Iraq. They are not really counted because they are not really human according to the press that doesn’t demand a count.
Here is another thing to note. When you are in a situation like this what is going on in your head that you take PHOTOS of this?
Do you WANT to get caught?
Are you really that stupid?
Are you proud of your actions?
Who released the photos? Will Bush and company fire them for showing them? Are they adding and abetting the enemy because they released them? Will the Sinclair broadcasting Company refuse to run them? They are making a political statement.
We have seen that the White House going after Kerry and his talk about atrocities. Bush inoculated himself right way by condemning them. Maybe he should take the blame. Oh that’s right, he’s a war president but he is never responsible for anything.
No, sorry, I am just learning about all this.
lava-it was reported that one wire was on his genitals.
that one's on his genitals.
There are clearly THREE wires.
ok, now I know.
Bubba - Iraq production may be up to pre-war levels, but are they shipping 2m/barrels a day from Basra? Production is one thing, getting it through the pipelines and on to a ship in Basra is another. I read where they have been pumping some of the oil back into the ground because of the bombed pipelines.
Regardless, interruptions over the course of the last year in Iraq, Venezuela, Nigeria, and in some of the refineries, combined with increased world wide consumption, throw in the Euro appreciation against the dollar - You ain't seeing no low oil prices for a while.
lava,
"Taguba backed up his assertion by citing evidence from sworn statements to Army C.I.D. investigators. Specialist Sabrina Harman, one of the accused M.P.s, testified that it was her job to keep detainees awake, including one hooded prisoner who was placed on a box with wires attached to his fingers, toes, and penis. She stated, “MI wanted to get them to talk. It is Graner and Frederick’s job to do things for MI and OGA to get these people to talk.”
They threatened to brand my hindquarters if I didn't run fast, but, jesus, this is just sick.
Ground of being.
-
Myself, I hardly watch teevee because it's mostly mind numbing nonsense. If I do catch the news, it's the BBC. I still believe large segments of the population are either ignorant, brainwashed, or just don't give a shit.
Does anyone think that the old Saddam General being given a 1000 men and weapons to "subdue" his home town of Fallujah will work?
Lenny was the slow witted man, but he had a good heart.. veritas
well then that can't be why bush reminded me of mice and men, cause bushs' heart is blacker than coal, but not blacker than dicks'
as for the pics that's just the superficial evidence. this story is going to get bigger. eventually even our out to lunch press will have to report it. obviously hershs' report indicates, intelligence=torture, is the backbone of the behavior. god only knows what they must be doing in afgahanistan. i feel for that marine, that is being held hostage.
"we will operate in the shadows" Dick Cheney on MTP
Did I just hear General Kimmitt now on Rita Cosbey claiming that the vast majority of the army is fondly remembered by the Iraqi people? Who knows if this is true or not; but isn't this in direct contradiction to what we were told before the War?
yep Ricardo it's true- when Americans were polled on what was our biggest problem, ignorance or apathy, the most given answer was -don't know and don't care.
veritas, no, i give it two weeks, then the marines level the place.
I still believe large segments of the population are either ignorant, brainwashed, or just don't give a shit.
Another possibility is that people are afraid of the truth. Remember adolescence? It's a terrible shock to learn the truth about the world. It's so different from everything you were taught when you were younger. Me, I woke up around January this year. So far, it's been depressing...
well, Bush said there are no more torture rooms, rape rooms. Up is down now.
Aaaaaahhh, The fond memories of those halcyon days in Fallujah.......
Smarty, it's getting close to the time for Sistani. When the game comes to an end and we pull out, then civil war will come. But at least the their fate and self-determination will be in their hands, not ours. Hey, it's getting late, and I gotta bail...
Veritas, it strikes me as potentially a humiliating situation if Saleh turns around and rallies the opposition. A successful ruse such as that would certainly rouse Iraqi nationalism.
Tanks...for the memories, the cluster bombs that maim, the wonderful joyous pain, that leg out in the rain, yes tank you for those....
I believe John Kerry will win this election. I believe Americans are not stupid. More than 50% voted for Al Gore in 2000. During that time country is prosperous, no wars, not that many pissed people. Compare that to 2004. Lots of angry people, we are killing and killed and we don't know for what? This is bad for incumbent govt.,. Is it not?
lava
You fail to understand. America has rejected the liberal agenda. President Bush will be elected, and soon after your liberism will be outlawed.
Liberals = scum
Crappy, are you a crappy joke?
You fail to understand. America has rejected the liberal agenda. President Bush will be elected, and soon after your liberism will be outlawed.
This will just make it more interesting. American will then be transformed in an old Soviet client state with state enforced cultural conservatism and we can all act like Havel and Adam Michnik and have something to be squarely against for a change.
Someday we'll have our Prague Spring and the wall of American ignorance and Jebus Freakism will come down on your Stalinoid skulls.
"You fail to understand. America has rejected the liberal agenda. President Bush will be elected, and soon after your liberism will be outlawed."
Liberals = scum
Crappy | Email | Homepage | 05.02.04 - 1:30 am | #
Ha ha!
"Crappy" = Stupid
marcus- that's what I was thinking. The US wants to be able to patrol unmolested in Fallujah. I suspect that the insurgents will allow (possibly in collusion with) the Iraqi force to pass unimpeded but attack Americans that are with them.
I am sure Crappy means that part about outlawing "liberalism."
veritas, no, i give it two weeks, then the marines level the place.
charley | Email | Homepage | 05.02.04 - 1:21 am
Right, but rather than level it they will go in, and take a dutiful number of casualties. It's in their nature and the nature of the situation.
I believe we were within a MEU-SOC hair trigger of doing it a couple of days ago.
-
Smarty Jones,Your schtick is killing me.Keep it up,we all need the chuckles.
Crappy is waiting for the crapture, boy, I hope it is soon. We need to rid the world of shit for brains like crappy.
"George W. Bush will go down in history as a great visionary leader, and you liberals will all be doing hard time in camps.
You scum.
Crappy"
Well, Heil fucking Hitler to you, too, Crap.
Goober
What does Hitler have to do with anything we're discussing. This is 2004 dude. Hitler was a liberal, but that was in 1934, which I guess shows that if we forget history, we are doomed to repeat it.
Thx, crappy, for that insightful analysis. Liberals = scum. That's just... profund.
It's all so clear now. your lot can have my basement for a rape room if you need it. I'll be out back burning copies of the geneva convention.
crappy is trying to sell you a pant-load.
why did bush have to testify with cheney? this was in my email box. i'm sure someone around here has some ideas.
Ricardo,
I agree. Oddly, though, the degree to which there is civil strife after we leave may have to do with how much of a uniter Bush is. Perhaps they hate us so much that they congratulate each other on how thoroughly they pantsed us and Britain before the entire world and decide to keep the peace!
One can kind of see a rough outline for the future of Iraq, though. Gen. Saleh types running Anbar province, Sistani-friendly Shia the bulk of the country, and the Kurds doing their own thing in the north. Unfortunately, things don't work out so easily.
Crappy I got a few questions you might want to poonder before you get too wrapped up in your flagwaving neo nazism.
Why has your president refused to put an all out effort to find OBL?
Why is he dodging the question to fund the war further if he is so supportive of the troops?
Why do you find his everlasting love of jesus so soothing yet his actions are so against the so called teachings of the book you so rever?
You put too much faith in those you let lead you and not enough questioning.Why will you not make you leader stand up and defend himself?He has much to answer for and yet you and your minions refuse to even see this as fact.
Are you to be led blindly to democracy's end?
I submit you are.
CRAPPY- does your mommy know you are up this late?
I'd like to pee in Crappy's butt.
It's all so clear now. your lot can have my basement for a rape room if you need it. I'll be out back burning copies of the geneva convention.
thingwarbler
We conservatives do not tolerate such behavior. Sex is supposed to be only done in marriage. Rape is bad.
Typical liberal banter.
Hitler was a liberal
This might be the best refutation of the Freeper boilerplate about hitler as leftist.
Crappy, wanna suck me and J. Thomas? Black and white is dyn-o-mite!!! They'll make you a Pioneer and you'll get meet and blow Crisco John Ashcroft.
What does Hitler have to do with anything??? Goddamn your fucking stupid Crappy.
oh c'mon!
crappys a phoney.
Like that Just sayin idjit.
I'm glad that somebody fially noticed.
sin | Email | Homepage | 05.02.04 - 1:02 am
Hey, anyone who knows how humans ARE knows this. In torture, what's the first target?
Crappy- you forgot that sex is never to be done standing up as God may think you are dancing.
Dear crappy- sorry you've been offended this evening. Luckily for you, I was busy elsewhere or your tiny little pin head would have exploded.
So let me make up for lost time- your preznit is a chimpy-resembling, lame-ass, stupid, fascist, murdering, criminal dumb fuck from hell. He's also hung like a hamster.
He's the worst president ever, not only to date, but of all the centuries to come.
And you give crap a bad name. After the election, rather than us going to camps, you'll be watching as bush and his henchmen are led off in chains to a cell right next to his soul mate, Slobodan Miloscevic.
The world will rejoice and shoot off many fireworks. A good time will be had by all.
What does Hitler have to do with anything???
Very common Freeper tactic to derail a thread by arguing that Hitler was a leftist.
There has been some discussion lately that this kind of warfare is not the Marine's cup of tea. Some say they are historically more famous for the all out assault, e.g., Iwo Jima. But as a unit perhaps some of them recognize the moral issues involved in an all out assault which is required to be made into a civilian population. In other words, unlike say the Black and Tans, the Marines have scruples about that kind of thing.
CRAPPY- I do commend conservatives on their good family values though.
Newt Gingrich, Henry Hyde, and of course the thrice married oxyrush set your values.
"Crappy" is parody.
Jeez, the trolls are crappy tonight 
YA!WHat four legs said!
And then some!!
crappy is trying to sell you a pant-load.
You are incorrect sir, actually crappy is a pantload. A nasty green one.
I never have seen Hitler and John Kerry in the same place. Seems like they could be the same person. Just seems kind of fishy. Hitler and Kerry are somewhat similar and both have killed a lot of people. Just sayin'.
"Crappy" is parody.
It's hard to tell sometimes.
The world will rejoice and shoot off many fireworks. A good time will be had by all.
Hmm. I intend to light up some firecrackers on Nov. 2 pending a favorable outcome.
I'm going to wager my $5 million bonus that there will be no major advance into Fallujah. My only caution is if something major happens, like indictments handed down against Scooter, then bombs away!
without brahimis intervention, it would have been a done deal. marines don't like to fuck around, as ole ollie will tell you they are "can do mother fuckers" it's politcal for george, veitnam should prove that is a bad way to fight a war. i heard one of those armchair generals get it about right, the good news is we have options, the bad news is none of them are good. the pics. and the ensuing fallout will add a whole new dimension to this krovy horror show. people are talking about war crimes, but the whole damn war is criminal.
Hey krappy I cant wait to see the new pics comming out wiht george and karl blowing ol dickey.I heard that george was the piviot man.
crappy may be parody, but I still like the idea of having a world wide party to celebrate chimpy's demise. We can have fireworks and dancing in the street (with many lovely liberal ladies!) and lot's of loud music. And we can all speak french just to irritate any fundies whose heads didn't explode on election day.
SWR- I just read the Hitler piece. It described w pretty well. Put Rove in as Goebbels and the picture is almost complete.
marines don't like to fuck around, as ole ollie will tell you they are "can do mother fuckers"..."
Erm. Are you, by chance, a US Marine?
Just asking.
There has been some discussion lately that this kind of warfare is not the Marine's cup of tea.
When the Marines went in after the Army left there were a lot of stories about how the Marines were better at this sort of mission, how they had been criticl of the heavy handed Army tactics, etc., and knew how to get positive results. Don't see too many of those stories anymore. None of the realities of this war so far have lived up to the advertising.
Like, all the best parts of this Iraq movie were in the trailer. And for all the expensive hype and advertising, it's just not a very good action film.
There better not be a sequel.
Smalfish,
You mean someone else blew the vice-president's duckwhistle other than me? He said I was special. He said candy would come out his dick if I sucked it just right. He used me. I'm definitely voting with Souter now!!!
four legs,
between your talk of firecrackers and heads exploding on election day, I can't help but worry that Karl Rove's final "fuck you" to this great country will be to rig yet another "fear-induction related event activity" that'll push us into code flamin' hot neon pink and allow the rethugs to conveniently cancel the party on us...
I predict monster demonstrations against Bush in every Western capital on the eve of the election.
eh, I myself am saving up for a super big pack of sparklers and bottlerockets.
I really wish Gandalf would come and do the fireworks though.
Just Sayin', you could have a lot more fun here
well, we could have an online party.
crappy may be parody, but I still like the idea of having a world wide party to celebrate chimpy's demise. We can have fireworks and dancing in the street (with many lovely liberal ladies!) and lot's of loud music. And we can all speak french just to irritate any fundies whose heads didn't explode on election day.
Don't curse fate. It's far from in the bag just yet.
He said candy would come out his dick if I sucked it just right.
Candy! he told me chocolate milk would come out. That cheney is mean!
thingwarbler- been a lot of chatter about the possibility of a "terrorist" attack and martial law, as ONLY w can save us. I don't think there are enough troops left in America to pull it off. Of course theres always Blackwater....
POP! POP! POP!
WOOO HOOO!
BUSH IS OUT!
LONG LIVE DEMOCRACY!
just practicing.
I recall a report that their current position in Baghdad is much further inland than at any other time in the entire history of the Marine Corps.
I can't help but worry that Karl Rove's final "fuck you" to this great country will be to rig yet another "fear-induction related event activity" that'll push us into code flamin' hot neon pink and allow the rethugs to conveniently cancel the party on us...
We can always resort to pitchforks and torches.
Hey, is Atrios OK?
I have read this thread with mixed feelings. I think we need to give President Bush the benefit of the doubt. He has a good plan and we will be out of Iraq in less than 8 weeks. Keep our troops in your prayers. This is the right thing to do. Think about it.
Of course theres always Blackwater....
That's just paranoid.
I mean, they've already paid for Vance.
veritas,
Yes. Those macho guys in their designer sunglasses. Privatize the Revolution - there's a thought...
Of course, unlike in Spain where an informed population actually had the guts and wherewithal to stop and question/consider wtf the government was trying to spin off a disaster, the talking heads here in the US would don their most somber attire, stare into the camera and announce that it "really, *really* would be in our best interest as a nation united to get behind our Dear Leader in these tragic times... remain calm, ask no questions and do as the authorities instruct." And by golly, the majority of sheeple would do so.
If w steals this election too, it may be Americas LAST election.
They're going to bump everything up to Terror Code Red just to put us on edge, then "narrowly avert" some horrific act of destruction. A Koran with "J. Kerry" written on the flyleaf will be found at the scene.
yeah? you're psyched for demonstrations all over the western capitals? come out for the RNC!!!
but first get a good look a good long look at some demonstrations thus far, the kind we don't get to have or see here in our country...like those in madrid
more photos here.
Does anyone think that the old Saddam General being given a 1000 men and weapons to "subdue" his home town of Fallujah will work?
veritas
Perhaps they prefer the devil they know to the devil they don't know. From the Telegraph:
A former senior general in Saddam Hussein's army made a triumphant entry into the besieged city of Fallujah yesterday and was greeted by flag-waving locals celebrating the departure of US marines.
patriot boy, I'm certain Atrios went to the WH correspondent's dinner.
hey just saying, you're still just babbling. Or did you get tired of being just crappy?
Just asking! poodles!
He has a good plan and we will be out of Iraq in less than 8 weeks.
Yes, and in early September he will give every American a back massage and a nice cool glass of iced tea. And the bunnies will dance and frolic and there will be no more chronic halitosis and we will all sing hymns to Dear Leader.
open thread? my mind wanders...
Anyone ever ask the freepers about martial law and postponing the elections in the event of a terrorist attack? "Elections? We don' need no steenkin elections."
AP article in the St Paul Pioneer Press yesterday- State Department study says terrorist attacks last year lower than any year since 1969. Credit given to improved international co-operation, NOT the war in Iraq.
No doubt when Bush first saw the photos from the prisons his first thoughts were "how did they get pics of our frat rushes?" I remember reading a profile of Bush early on that said he was an enthusiastic hazer in his college days. I knew right then he was low rent trash in WASP clothing
What do Winston Churchill and Saddam Hussein have in common? They have both gassed the Iraqi people.
http://
straitstimes.asia1.com.sg...,178266,00.html
Like, all the best parts of this Iraq movie were in the trailer. And for all the expensive hype and advertising, it's just not a very good action film.
There better not be a sequel.
Thersites
This is the sequel.
Just Sayin': "I think we need to give President Bush the benefit of the doubt..." -- bzzztt. Thank you for playing. Go directly to jail. Do not cross start. Do not collect $200.
Troops in prayers: good. Troops in transports home: better.
Bush in White House: bad. Bush in The Hague: perfect.
He has a good plan and we will be out of Iraq in less than 8 weeks.
And thanks to commander bunny pants it will probably with our tail tucked between out legs.
Worst
President
Ever
LAme ass commander
Cant even suck a good dick
"Erm. Are you, by chance, a US Marine?" Mr.X
no offense to anyone who served in the corps. but of course not Mr.X marines are brainwashed killers. i know cause i saw what 3months of paris island did to my brother. i can't talk about the officers but the grunts are trained to kill and they want to do thier job.
And the bunnies will dance and frolic..
Oh goodie. I like that part.
[/out of character]. I AM A TRAINING TROLL. MY MISSION: TO MAKE OBVIOUS THAT ALL TROLLS USE SEVERAL BASIC TACTICS:
(1) NEVER ANSWER QUESTIONS.
(2) NEVER CONCEDE ANY POINT.
(3) ALWAYS STAY ON MESSAGE.
(4) CHANGE THE SUBJECT IF YOU ARE LOSING.
(5) LIE. LIE. LIE.
(6) OMIT. OMIT. OMIT.
(7) ASSUME A VULCAN-LIKE AFFECTIVE TONE.
BUSH WILL BE BEATEN LIKE A LITTLE BITCH IF THE DRUBBING YOU HAVE GIVEN THIS ENTITY IS ANY GUIDE.
i can't talk about the officers but the grunts are trained to kill and they want to do thier job.
I hate to break it too you, but that killer training has spread to the army too.
Hilary's no true liberal or progressive. How could any REAL Democrat support someone with links to a job outsourcing "bodyshop"??
Nick, re. Bush and enthusiastic hazing: he and Kerry were both Bonesmen at Yale, Bush apparently was a couple of years ahead of Kerry.
D'ya think one trick up Dubya's sleeve for the debates will be a snide reference to the time when he hazed Kerry for acceptance into the fraternity: "yo, John, remember that time back at Yale when I forced you to blow me while you wore a tutu a bowler hat and a hangover the size of Texas? Don't ya think all your pinko friends would love to see the official snap shots of that one?" Of course, someone out there must have hazed Dubya - would love to hear their story...
Thersites, what happened to the good old days when it was actually fun to torch the trolls?
They're just so lame now.
SatRicairtank- yep the people in Fallujah took the local boys taking over as a victory, besides Saleh has no airforce. w was desperate to stop Americans from getting killed and has "adjusted" his policy. Not flip-flopped, adjusted.
thingwarbler, that's a nice story but I think Kerry is the older of the two.
As for chimpy hazing stories, it's probably not actually hazing if the victim really likes it. Ya know?
Uhh for the record,before you guys trash it even further.Kerry was ahead of bush at yale by about 3 or 4 years.
Even though I'm a horse, I still am a firm supporter of human rights. So in the spirit of remembrance, I'll type a few lines from Biko...
September '77
Port Elizebeth weather fine
It was business as usual
In Police Room 619...
Oh Biko, Biko
the man is dead...
You can blow out a candle,
but you can't blow out a fire
once the flame begins to catch
the wind will blow it higher...
and the eyes of the world are watching now watching now
"Erm. Are you, by chance, a US Marine?" Mr.X
no offense to anyone who served in the corps. but of course not Mr.X marines are brainwashed killers. i know cause i saw what 3months of paris island did to my brother. i can't talk about the officers but the grunts are trained to kill and they want to do thier job.
charley | Email | Homepage | 05.02.04 - 2:11 am
Just asking.
"We can always resort to pitchforks and torches." four legs
i'm down with this option, i say we do it now.
damn this thread really lit up after midnite.
i used to like trolls, now i realize they are just stupid. like republicans, except the 'vulcans' that inform george. and for your info trolls the smart repugs have no real use for you except your vote. and for the green trolls, well you are just stupid.
W initiated in '68, Kerry in '66. (CBS' 60 minutes in October '03)
Thx, four, for setting the record straight.
Bush in White House: bad. Bush in The Hague: perfect.
thingwarbler
Bush in Gitmo: Priceless.
He deserves a hell of his own making.
I'm sure glad I was army. I just learned to kill without being brainwashed. My brother was navy. He never even learned about boats.
Bush in Gitmo: Priceless.
Bush in Fullujah. Better.
All right, one more time since this is an open thread, might as well put some spam related program activities in the mix (for all Blogger users).
I'm trying to find someone interested in swapping Gmail names. I accidentally got stuck with EUROPE and am experiencing 'unintentional buyer's remorse'.
If you check out the link, it's the second post.
Can Spam
How about a running of the neo-cons down main street, fallujah?
Ah, for the days of Sumwon and his war on the Bonesmen...not.
You just know the reason they never talk about S&B is that the whole thing was sold to them as something special and it just turned out to be a bunch of stupid drunken meanness. It probably was the only part of his college experience Bush has good memories of.
Maybe they can start by bouncing Wolfowicz’s sorry nincompoop, incompetent, attention-deficient, data deficient tuchas all the way out.
.....
Anyone still harboring the delusion that conflict escalation or troop escalation are options should be fired on their nincompoop, incompetent tuchas too .
.....
Did you know...
CACI International Inc. describes its aim as helping “America’s intelligence community in the war on terrorism”. Richard Armitage, the current deputy US secretary of state, sat on CACI’s board.
"Crappy" is parody.
It's hard to tell sometimes.
SWR
I am a Democrat.
"I'm going to wager my $5 million bonus that there will be no major advance into Fallujah. My only caution is if something major happens, like indictments handed down against Scooter, then bombs away!" smarty jones
smarty has the best post so far every time i read it i laugh. the unfunny part is it's true.
How about a running of the neo-cons down main street, fallujah?
And give them King James Bibles, Israeli flags, pornography and splash them with bacon grease.
Ah, for the days of Sumwon and his war on the Bonesmen...not.
You just know the reason they never talk about S&B is that the whole thing was sold to them as something special and it just turned out to be a bunch of stupid drunken meanness. It probably was the only part of his college experience Bush has good memories of.
Nick Carraway
AAAAaaahhh!
Ix-Nay on the Ull and bones-SKAY.
Dare I say?
Alter Cronkheit-Way!
Hey whoopsie!
Can anyone honestly argue that the invasion of Iraq isn't a significant cause of such actions? Can anyone really believe that maintaining military bases in Iraq indefinitely will help to suppress anti-Americanism?
JIDDAH, Saudi Arabia -- Gunmen killed four and wounded two Houston-based workers of an international engineering company Saturday. The attackers engaged Saudi police in a bloody battle, shooting wildly in a residential compound and dragging a naked victim behind their getaway car.
In all, the gunmen in the city of Yanbu killed six Westerners and wounded at least 25.
Police killed four gunmen. Saudi officials blamed the attack on Islamic militants.
The attack on workers from ABB Lummus' office in west Houston was the latest in a rash of violence against contractors with Houston-based firms working in foreign countries, including war-torn Iraq.
Yet more evidence that working for Bush and his cronies is hazardous to your health; if they don't screw you, then their enemies will.
I am a Democrat.
Joe Lieberman? Is that you?
SWR: Yes. I defer to your more excellent solution.
It says in the newsreports that Koppel read 721 names. I know he said he would read the names of non-combat deaths as well, and I know the count was higher than 721 that day, so who did he leave out? Suicides? Anyone know how they came up with 721?
danya- and by a small world coincidence Marvin Bush sat on the board of the company providing security for theWorld Trade Center buildings and a certain airline....
crappy,
stop, stop, now we *know* you're just here to embarras yourself and entertain the rest of us.
Isn't there a novel body part you haven't explored yet that would be more enticing than the keyboard at this hour of the night? Or do the two go, well, hand-in-hand, as it were?
I'm sure there's a need for some appropriately inane input over at Ricky's - tonight's hot item there, Mr. "ooh-what-a-big-racist-I-am" must have moved on by now. Go check it out for us, won't you?
and by another coincidence the deputy director of the CIA ran Deutchebank before he became deputy director of cia. Deutche bank was where all the trades short selling a certain airline was placed.
You just know the reason they never talk about S&B is that the whole thing was sold to them as something special and it just turned out to be a bunch of stupid drunken meanness. It probably was the only part of his college experience Bush has good memories of.
nick and smarty, they're neck and neck at the finish line.
It says in the newsreports that Koppel read 721 names. I know he said he would read the names of non-combat deaths as well, and I know the count was higher than 721 that day, so who did he leave out? Suicides? Anyone know how they came up with 721?
satiRic air tanK
He said that they didn't have the names of the ones that had just been killed, so they couldn't add them to the broadcast.
Joe Lieberman? Is that you?
More like Zell Miller.
Marvin Bush sat on the board of the company providing security for theWorld Trade Center buildings and a certain airline...
Is this true??
Deutche bank was where all the trades short selling a certain airline was placed.
Yeah but they just missed getting 110 stories piled on top of them. A few degrees to the east and the south tower could have landed on their heads.
Whatever was the porpoise of the Ted Koppel show, the reality has been coming through, along with the pictures of the coffins, the awful pictures of the Iraqi prisoners and other dismal news, the picture from Iraq is dismal and disastrous and who people are calling the bungler in chief is Bush.
.....
MisterX: I know...(hangs head in shame)...
Personally, I would like to see Bush make up those lost National Guard days, and Cheney etc sent to Fallujah to work as traffic cops, directly from Washington the day Kerry is inaugurated.
so who did he leave out? Suicides? Anyone know how they came up with 721?
He said there were about sixteen that they didn't have names for. 2 of them had been killed that day.
Can anyone honestly argue that the invasion of Iraq isn't a significant cause of such actions? Can anyone really believe that maintaining military bases in Iraq indefinitely will help to suppress anti-Americanism?
Brought to you by the same administration that promises to "end" the "war on terrorism."
which apparently will involve killing absolutely everyone on the planet who is not in the U.S. military....
(and Paul Bremer said it couldn't be done....)
smalfish yep
Personally, I would like to see Bush make up those lost National Guard days, and Cheney etc sent to Fallujah to work as traffic cops
Hardly fitting. Traffic cops?
Nope. Bush and Cheney should be employed in Fullujah as:
1.) Christian missionaries
2.) Advance men for the new Israeli embassy.
minnieB9 - but according to Kevin over at washingtonmonthly, the whole prison thing has gotten minimal play in the US media.
Do you really think Koppel's reading resonated with Joe Sixpack? Or did he simply declare it boring and depressing, and switch back to Fox in a hurry for more unbiased news?
Unless the SCLM follow up on this as they should, it'll just fade as has all the other "wow, now we've got them!" scandals of the past many months.
By the way, that was one of the saddest things I have ever watched.
What I saw:
1)A lot of the dead were either 20-ish PFCs or 38-42-year old SSGTS.
2) A lot of the dead were non-whites.
3) No one watched this.
I wonder what sort of media attention will be drawn by the dragging of the naked corpse behind the car of the killers? (echoes of Somalia)
And what if any impact this will have on our policy towards and diplomatic presence in Saudi Arabia?
smalfish- google marvin bush, just another of the bush famiglia. the more ya learn the more you hate that criminal family.
Specialist Joseph M. Darby - a soldier of courage and decency
crappy,
stop, stop, now we *know* you're just here to embarras yourself and entertain the rest of us.
Isn't there a novel body part you haven't explored yet that would be more enticing than the keyboard at this hour of the night? Or do the two go, well, hand-in-hand, as it were?
I'm sure there's a need for some appropriately inane input over at Ricky's - tonight's hot item there, Mr. "ooh-what-a-big-racist-I-am" must have moved on by now. Go check it out for us, won't you?
thingwarbler
When did I say something racist? I believe I said liberals are scum. How is that racist?
And why is it you liberals resort to name calling rather than having a frank debate on the issues? Is this the level of so-called argument you will use to help Kerry win?
rorschach, what do you think?
.....
And why is it you liberals resort to name calling rather than having a frank debate on the issues?
If I had one penny for every time a Freeper said this, I'd be richer than Bill Gates.
as i said, up thread i watched approx. 1 min. and in that brief time koppel read off, a George Bush Jr. and a Bill Frist. wierd, huh.
My trainer only lets me go to the internet after I win a race, so I'm kind of new to the blogosphere. But cripes, there is some whacko winger sites! There is this one called licianne.com and they have all sorts of posts about nuking fallujah and all kinds of really mean shit about iraqis and anyone not white, christian, or hetero. However, I noticed that they have an editor that can be pretty funny:
Reply 7 - Posted by: arikari, 5/1/2004 9:48:10 PM
Post deleted for reasons of taste
...
I mean, really, shouldn't there whole site be deleted for reasons of taste?
I am a Democrat.
Joe Lieberman? Is that you?
SWR
Joe Lieberman should be a republican. I'm more like Ted Kennedy.
I think people will be expecting the Bushies to be up and about and saying we will strengthen our ties to everyone in the region and a few bad actors aren’t gonna shake us.
.....
Unless the SCLM follow up on this as they should, it'll just fade as has all the other "wow, now we've got them!" scandals of the past many months.
To paraphrase Eliot: "This is the way the administration ends/Not with a bang, but a whimper."
One has to remember that reality is never like Perry Mason. The guilty never repent and confess their sins just before the last commercial, and the entire audience never comes to believe that the "nice young man" was really capable of the heinous crime.
The raging incompetency of the Administration is becoming obvious to all but the most devoted to the GOP (like, say, Sinclair). Now, if Kerry would just show the backbone of John McCain (especially his letter condeming Sinclair's refusal to show the "Nigthline" episode Friday), then there would be a "gotcha" moment.
Barring that, however, we are forced to rely on "well, you gotta vote for somebody, and at least the other guy's not George Bush."
It may be the best we can do. The voters in the early primaries decided Kerry was more "electable" than Dean. May it be so. But it may be only because Bush becomes truly unelectable. Not with a bang, but a whimper.
what's the argument crappy? are you upset or something, cause i'm madder than hell and i'm not going to do anything about it.
and by another coincidence the deputy director of the CIA ran Deutchebank before he became deputy director of cia. Deutche bank was where all the trades short selling a certain airline was placed.
The more I hear about the connections to that day the more I become firmly entrenched that it was not just a coincedence that AQ "got lucky"
I find the money aspect of the event to be the most intresting and the most unexplored aspect of the whole tragedy.
Tragedy tho I think is beginnig to be the incorrect word.Mabe I should refer to it as something else.Dunno what the word would be.
minnie--
Honestly, I don't know. Stirring up outrage over Americans being killed and hacked up plays well when it happens to mercenaries in Iraq, b/c it shows how barbaric those darn Iraqis are (and thus makes the torture and humiliation of Iraqi POWs more palatable, incidentally).
But Saudi Arabia is supposedly on our side (where were the 9-11 attackers from again?)...and so outrage over this would be very complicated, since it doesn't fit the script.
So, my prediction, then? Since it is not simple, it will be swiftly forgotten. I hope I am wrong...
And why is it you liberals resort to name calling rather than having a frank debate on the issues?
If I had one penny for every time a Freeper said this, I'd be richer than Bill Gates.
SWR
Just one problem Boy-Howdy, I'm not a Freeper. And you still haven't addressed the issues. You're still name calling.
crappy,
Reading. Hard. But Master's No Troll Left Behind program will remedy that. Just wait and see. I said the racist who was the hot ticket item tonight has probably left ricky's, and that'd be your chance to swoop in and grab all the attention at Ricky's hot, sweaty site. So, not calling you a racist, but *please* do provide us all with your no doubt profound and eloquent insights on race equality.
I'm not arguing with you to get Kerry to win; and I believe you started the name-calling several hours ago with your subtle "scum" reference. You never did explain what kind of scum you meant, though...
When did I say something racist? I believe I said liberals are scum. How is that racist?
And why is it you liberals resort to name calling rather than having a frank debate on the issues?
Can we get an explanation of how the epithet "liberals are scum" is part of a "frank debate on the issues?"
Just one problem Boy-Howdy, I'm not a Freeper. And you still haven't addressed the issues. You're still name calling.
One penny.
robert i'm getting tired and i certainly don't want to start an argument but rove would have eaten deans lunch.
what's the argument crappy? are you upset or something, cause i'm madder than hell and i'm not going to do anything about it.
charley
The issue is whether or not liberals have a platform that can be supported. Liberals claim that Freepers just resort to name calling and illogical arguments, and I'm trying to point out that many liberals on this thread are doing the same damn thing. If that persists, it will not help elect Kerry.
So the issue is: defend the liberal platform!
Can we get an explanation of how the epithet "liberals are scum" is part of a "frank debate on the issues?"
Sometimes name calling is appropriate.
If you met a Klansman, would you engage him in a frank debate?
The right's using this faux civlity a lot lately. They start with the most insane assumptions (Creation Science, for example) and get all whiny if you come out and call them idiots instead of humoring their pretensions at being intellectuals.
Kimmitt added that he and other commanders in Iraq felt "absolute disgust" at the images ... However, he disputed the idea that the abuses were a result of inadequate training or supervision. "Those soldiers knew what the right thing to do was," he said.
In other words, "how many times have I told you guys: no pictures!"
And Karpinski says "I knew nothing"
Oops, so sorry - forgot Atrios' golden rule #1, printed right there above the haloscan screen: "Don't Feed The Trolls!" My bad.
Starve in peace, Crappy.
robert i'm getting tired and i certainly don't want to start an argument but rove would have eaten deans lunch.
Not taking a position on it. Just saying Dean was scrappy. Kerry can't seem to work up outrage even over the Sinclair story. Just read something (Dowd? Damn, it is late) saying: can't we get Kerry to be McCain's VP candidate? I want Kerry to win, but he's not doing much to help the argument.
So we may have to fall back on: "At least he's not Bush."
I mean, one of 'em's gotta be President, at this point. Not much reason to vote, but then again, I'm not sure the reasons are ever much better than that, either.
So the issue is: defend the liberal platform!
I would against somebody I saw as being open minded.
But someone in the 35% of the population that makes up Bush's base (like you), why even try?
Why waste the time? Nothing you would argue would be in good faith anyway and your assumptions would basically be insane.
It would be like arguing with a crazed panhandler on the subway. If I met you in real life I'd either flip you a quarter or push you out of my space.
thingwarbler, I don’t know this Kevin Drum dude, but he seems to be pooh poohing the whole deal, whereas nothing could be further from the truth.
People take the honor and integrity of our armed forces very seriously and if bad people have done bad things and created problems for us, I think people are very troubled by it.
We are also very troubled by the potential for this vastly complicating the field for our civilians and our troops out there.
Bush’s lousy and ineffective rhetoric did absolutely nothing to calm our concerns and restore a sense of dignity and balance and justice to what we expect to see, Blair’s remarks were a wee bit better, but only the beginning.
We are expecting to see much more of Bush officials up and about, explaining themselves and explaining the new procedures and what kind of precautions they are going to institute.
I also think people are expecting Rummy to be a lot more explanatory about the situation with the Iraqi prisoners and he should be doing a lot more talking about the ICRC and international conventions and about getting the human rights organizations and the ICRC involved in a much more extensive way.
.....
.....
Speaking of the abuse of the Iraqi prisoners:
Betsy Berra May Not Care...
but sane and civilized people do. And it's worse than just one or two incidents, as any reasonable person would have suspected.
International condemnation intensified Saturday over photographs of Iraqi prisoners being humiliated by U.S. troops, as new reports surfaced of additional abuses by British troops and revelations of an internal Army report showing the American mistreatment was more widespread than previously known.
...
Also Saturday, the New Yorker magazine said it had obtained a U.S. Army report that Iraqi detainees were subjected to "sadistic, blatant and wanton criminal abuses" at the Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad.
The abuses included threats of rape and the pouring of cold water and liquid from chemical lights on detainees, said the internal report by Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba. According to the report, detainees were beaten with a broom handle, and one was sodomized with "a chemical light and perhaps a broomstick," the New Yorker reports in its May 10 issue.
The scandal broadened Saturday after Britain's Daily Mirror published new photographs of a hooded Iraqi prisoner who reportedly was beaten by British troops. The newspaper's front-page picture showed a soldier apparently urinating on the prisoner, who was sitting on the floor.
The newspaper quoted unidentified soldiers as saying the unarmed captive had been threatened with execution during eight hours of abuse and was left bleeding and vomiting. They said the captive was driven away and dumped from the back of a moving vehicle, and it was not known whether he survived.
Speaking of the abuse of the Iraqi prisoners:
Betsy Berra May Not Care...
but sane and civilized people do. And it's worse than just one or two incidents, as any reasonable person would have suspected.
International condemnation intensified Saturday over photographs of Iraqi prisoners being humiliated by U.S. troops, as new reports surfaced of additional abuses by British troops and revelations of an internal Army report showing the American mistreatment was more widespread than previously known.
...
Also Saturday, the New Yorker magazine said it had obtained a U.S. Army report that Iraqi detainees were subjected to "sadistic, blatant and wanton criminal abuses" at the Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad.
The abuses included threats of rape and the pouring of cold water and liquid from chemical lights on detainees, said the internal report by Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba. According to the report, detainees were beaten with a broom handle, and one was sodomized with "a chemical light and perhaps a broomstick," the New Yorker reports in its May 10 issue.
The scandal broadened Saturday after Britain's Daily Mirror published new photographs of a hooded Iraqi prisoner who reportedly was beaten by British troops. The newspaper's front-page picture showed a soldier apparently urinating on the prisoner, who was sitting on the floor.
The newspaper quoted unidentified soldiers as saying the unarmed captive had been threatened with execution during eight hours of abuse and was left bleeding and vomiting. They said the captive was driven away and dumped from the back of a moving vehicle, and it was not known whether he survived.
Krappy,you answer my questions upthread and Ill sit down with ya and we'll have a true heart to heart.
Otherwise your just another troll to be ignored.
Robert, Dowd has no creds whatsoever .
.....
She’s just miffed coz her boyfrien’s getting dissed .
.....
If you met a Klansman, would you engage him in a frank debate?
I've had to, actually.
Perhaps Atrios should run a column on the Marvin Bush with Kuwaiti money was a principal in the company providing security for the wtc buildings, american airlines, and dulles airport. SMALL world coincidence?
I've had to, actually.
The problem is arguing with somebody who's assumptions are basically nuts.
It would take years to deprogram a Klansman and his racial issue. And a therapist would get 125 dollars an hour for it.
It would take years to deprogram a fundamentalist. Why would you want to waste your time arguing with someone who believes a man with a white beard created the earth in 7 days.
Read Aristotle. Or Plato. Neither argued that you could have a rational debate with anyway. Both accepted that your assumptions come from character and breeding, not reason.
MinnieB9,
I think your standards and expectations are *way* too high. Do people really
"I also think people are expecting Rummy to be a lot more explanatory about the situation with the Iraqi prisoners and he should be doing a lot more talking about the ICRC and international conventions and about getting the human rights organizations and the ICRC involved in a much more extensive way." Yeah, he should do this that and the other if he had any sense of decency and morals. But that's why he's got a job in this administration: he has neither of those. IMHO, he should go [expletive] himself with a sharp stick, but is he going to do it? Who is going to make him?
We barely got our Commander-in-Chief to explain what the fuck he was doing on and around 9/11 - if he'd stayed in Crawford and said, "hey, wasn't my plane, wasn't my building - whatd'ya want from me?" there'd have been little if any outcry in the media and/or public.
"We are expecting..." you claim, but if "we" don't act to make it happen (e.g. by yelling and screaming about how outraged we are that it isn't happening - at the very least to our local newspaper) it ain't going to happen. I'm with fourlegsgood on this: it's time for torches and pitchforks, nothing less will do.
Once things settle down, I think a good token of Iraq-U.S. friendship would be an annual "running of the neo-cons" down the streets of fallujah. Akin to Pamplona, this should boost the tourist trade for Iraq, and on our end we can jettison the annual crop of neo-cons that sprout up. Perhaps May 1, currently known as chimpie mcflighsuit day, would be an appropriate date.
crappy, it really just boils down to the silly argument of anybody but bush. i never have voted, don't believe in voting, or religion or nation states but that's the way the world is. but i can not stand by and in good conscience allow these Fascist Assholes to co opt two hundred + years of democracy, such as it is. i would have voted for dean, or even sharpton if thats what it took. Platform? i don't care, thats for you types who do. whada ya gonna vote for bush. he's beatable, it'll be close, but he is beatable, after that it's up to you types who care about this crap to sort it out. i would start with reforming the media.
And about the reading of the names by Ted Koppel, I did not watch it myself, but in cumulation with all the other adverse news, it is surely sending a picture of a Bush conduct in complete disarray and even people who were abjectly devoted to him or his policies and even to the intervention in the exact way that he did it, are expressing total consternation at the extent of the bungling and mishandling of the situation, starting with a failure to get all the genuine groups on board, the regional allies on board and the world community on board and continuing with the daily logistic reports of continued logistic lack of competence.
.....
If you met a Klansman, would you engage him in a frank debate?
I've had to, actually.
Robert M. Jeffers
Actually, that reminds me that Senator Byrd was once a klansman. Somehow he was converted away from it, so I guess conversation can work for a good purpose.
Ironic and sick:
The soldiers at the prison in Iraq MUST have been trained to do what they did by people knowledgable of torture tactics in many Islamic prisons...They obviously did not just happen to think of these types of assaults themselves. In fact these things and much worse are common in some Islamic countries. Rape, both hetero- and homosexual is an often used form of torture to punish or get information.
Links to the the following stories are in my e-mail and home page. There are tons of others reports of this also....
In Egypt:
180. Torture was allegedly carried out to extract a "confession" or information; to administer discipline or punishment; or, in certain police stations, to perform a "favour" for influential persons. The methods of torture alleged included severe beatings, such as with sticks and other objects; whippings with electric cables while the victim was naked; suspension in painful positions for prolonged periods; application of electric shocks, particularly on sensitive parts of the body such as genitals, nipples, ears and lips; burnings with cigarettes; sexual assault; dousing with cold water; and dragging the victim across the floor so as to cause abrasion wounds.
Also:
Gays under attack in Egypt
By Youssef Sherif CAIRO Middle East Times
A new report has highlighted a campaign of abuse against homosexuals in Egypt, led by the country’s police.
“I was detained for no reason, severely beaten, tortured with electric shocks, and raped by other male prisoners,” said Ashraf, one of 20 people convicted of the ‘habitual practice of debauchery’ in a 2001 case known as the Queen Boat trial....
....A report released earlier this month by the New York-based Human Rights Watch organization documents hundreds of such abuses.
“That is only a minuscule percentage of the true total. Hundreds of others have been harassed, arrested, often tortured, but not charged,” according to the report.
Nonetheless, homosexual men involved Human rights groups, including HRW, have accused the government of backing a campaign targeting homosexuals in Egypt.
“The government has found it advantageous to demonize this group of people as a way of diverting attention from other problems,” says HRW executive director Kenneth Roth.
Ashraf – not his real name – is one of many subjected to degrading and unfair treatment at the hands of the police, who are widely accused of launching a crackdown on homosexuals.
A 34-year-old father of two, Ashraf was among those arrested ...
However, HRW insists that while the Queen Boat case attracted considerable media attention, the harassment of homosexuals in Egypt is far more widespread.
“We describe a continuing practice of arresting and torturing gay men by the Cairo vice squad,” said Roth.
The report documents the systematic torture and harassment of men accused of homosexuality, including arbitrary arrest.....
“Prison guards also have a major role in this horror pl
...and I'm trying to point out that many liberals on this thread are doing the same damn thing. If that persists, it will not help elect Kerry.
So the issue is: defend the liberal platform!
Crappy
It is a bit disingenuous - and that's being polite - to start a series of postings with ...
1)"liberals are scum"
2)"We conservatives do not tolerate such behavior. Sex is supposed to be only done in marriage. Rape is bad.
3)"Typical liberal banter."
and the all time fave:
4)"George W. Bush will go down in history as a great visionary leader, and you liberals will all be doing hard time in camps.You scum."
... and THEN expect there to be a reasonable discussion on OUR part vis a vis with logical nuanced arguments and sans name-calling.
... As I said, "disingenuous" (which has FIVE syllables Crappy, so say it slowly out loud) is being too polite. Typical ignorant winger hypocrisy is closer to the mark.
Bushies are taking a big hit for their lack of competence and lack of creds out in the communities. Keeping up the pressure is always helpful and that is what we are all doing.
.....
smarty: Awesomw idea! And the spectators can throw rose petals at the neocons while they run down the street. We know how gratifying it would be for them to see that (in their last moments).
crappy, it really just boils down to the silly argument of anybody but bush. i never have voted, don't believe in voting, or religion or nation states but that's the way the world is. but i can not stand by and in good conscience allow these Fascist Assholes to co opt two hundred + years of democracy, such as it is. i would have voted for dean, or even sharpton if thats what it took. Platform? i don't care, thats for you types who do. whada ya gonna vote for bush. he's beatable, it'll be close, but he is beatable, after that it's up to you types who care about this crap to sort it out. i would start with reforming the media.
charley
Charley, isn't voting one of the ways we have to try to fix this damaged democracy? Facists detest democracy, and surely if more people voted this year, there might even be a chance for a Kerry landslide.
Nads--exactly right. Which is why he should simply be ignored as a waste of typing.
Is this guy worth the carpal tunnel? I think not...
Ignore this troll untill he answers some of my questions.
He is being a predictable troll.
Read Aristotle. Or Plato. Neither argued that you could have a rational debate with anyway. Both accepted that your assumptions come from character and breeding, not reason.
Oh, I agree. And I have. Read Aristotle and Plato, that is.
But using that as excuse to lapse into name calling is hardly a justification for the kind of superiority name calling always implies.
"Crappy" apparently, if his own post is to be believed, wandered in here talking about "liberal scum." Not exactly a position for a "rational debate."
"Rational," on the other hand, always implies a fundamental agreement on the boundaries of the discourse. Is it rational, for example, to call for the overthrow of the fundamental grounds of the discourse, such as the concept of "rational" in the first place?
Not, in contemporary philosophical circles, an idle question. Even to ask it presupposes rational thought, but rational thought with new boundaries.
It may be the boundaries of what you consider "rational discourse" are too narrow. It may be "Crappy" is incapable of any rational discourse.
But name calling doesn't establish that. When I find myself arguing with a racist, like a Klansman, I don't resort to name-calling.
I shut up. Epithets directed at a brick wall do nothing to change the brick wall, and do everything to diminish my claim to "rational thought."
Although I'm pretty fast, I still can't comprehend how most Americans aren't comprehending the fact that their preznit is depending on
1) an Iranian-born ayatollah (al-Sistani)
2) the United Nations
and
3) re-bathification and a former Republican Guard general
to bring about democracy in Iraq. This is a strategy?
Iraq Veteran Criticizes Bush on Radio
"I don't expect our leaders to be free of mistakes. I expect our leaders to own up to them," said Army National Guard 1st Lt. Paul Rieckhoff, who was a platoon leader in Iraq.
Rieckhoff's comments, distributed by Sen. John Kerry's presidential campaign, were the Democratic response to the president's weekly radio address. Usually, a public official gives the response.
"Our troops are still waiting for more body armor. They are still waiting for better equipment. They are still waiting for a policy that brings in the rest of the world and relieves their burden," said Rieckhoff.
Rieckhoff called his comrades in Iraq "men and women of extraordinary courage and incredible capability. But it's time we had leadership in Washington to match that courage and match that capability."
.....
ugh....I was cut off.
“Prison guards also have a major role in this horror play,” said one man who was detained for two weeks.
“They encourage other prisoners to harass and rape the detainees. And if they feel that prisoners are not so enthusiastic about it, they do the job themselves,” he told the Middle East Times.
However, the presiding judge in the Queen Boat trial, Muhammad Abdel Karim, denied detainees had been tortured, saying the detained men were guilty as charged.
Maureen Dowd has a great quote today:
This administration is the opposite of "The Sixth Sense."
They don't see any dead people.
MinnieB9,
Sorry, didn't mean to slam you for slacking. I just think there's a quantum leap between "people are concerned about..." and "people are going to take action that makes a real difference".
Thanks to our comatose friends in the press, it's taken way too long to get people concerned - up until recently the hacks were too busy to cover up the mess to really expose it for what it is: a disaster with real implications for real Americans.
Like some building headache, people are now aware that there's something very wrong - but "We are expecting to see much more of Bush officials up and about, explaining themselves and explaining the new procedures and what kind of precautions they are going to institute." opens you up to exactly the kind of spin that has worked wonders to a) get us into this mess, and b) keep us in this mess for a full year after "mission accomplished". It's time not to hear them explain but to start calling them on their past explanations, aka lies.
A great strategy is to hang close and then sprint at the final turn. A little mud never hurts, either.
ah, rorshch my psych classes come back to me, the answer is no, save that damage for the guitar.
it's a monster with 3 horns and little dick.
damn smarty your on fire. burn 'em
I hate the semantic conundrum this adminstration has subjected me to. I never thought I would ever utter the phrase, "I hate bush."
Thank you, I'll be here all night.
smarty jones, them is the folks that is out there, they are gonna be the democrats.
Nobody is expecting the Iowa Ladies Bowling Club to be out there voting in the iWaqi elections, Bushie is the one who has to scramble to get all the local, regional and allied folks on board.
The general dude is the most iffy person but the reverend dude and the UN have much better creds.
.....
But name calling doesn't establish that. When I find myself arguing with a racist, like a Klansman, I don't resort to name-calling.
It may be the boundaries of what you consider "rational discourse" are too narrow. It may be "Crappy" is incapable of any rational discourse.
There's a point at which it's "irrational" to try to behave "rationally."
The klansman is a case in point. Unless you're a saint and can actually reach people like this, you either stay away from Klansmen or you deal with them at the point of a gun (preferably with him being frog marched into the nearest cell block full of black muslims).
It's the same with sex. A lot of men get bitter and angry when they realize sex isn't always conducted on a rational level. That woman, why isn't she attracted to you? Doesn't it make sense that it would be? After all, you're a "nice" guy and the one she's dating is an asshole.
Doesn't matter. It's not rational.
Freepers/Klansmen/Fundies argue from a very deep neurotic place. The fact that they tend to make a big point of being rational just indicates how insane they are. Every sane person ackknowledges that reason has limits.
MinnieB9,
Re. Rieckhoff's comments: That's a great quote - and a good move on Kerry's part to let a Vet do the talking, rather than a politician. The points he makes will resonate with the crowd as you described them above - there's real concern and compassion for the guys in the field, but also some significant fingerpointing at DC. He's not asking for more explanations from the lying liars in power, but for one of them to own up to this mess.
Oh yeah, thanks for the reminder about lies .
Cheese Louise, did anyone expect where Bush is forced to make lame jokes about the number of books that have been written about his lies.
Yikes.
......
It may be the boundaries of what you consider "rational discourse" are too narrow. It may be "Crappy" is incapable of any rational discourse.
9/11 rendered a lot of people incapable of it. It's a real dividing line.
Person A was willing to say "why did this happen. Let's examine it and try to prevent it in the future. Let's try to understand the motivations of the people who did it.
Person B shut down and surrended to a fear of the swarthy other.
We have to realize that. Person B makes up Bush's base. They cannot be reasoned with any more than my grandfather could be talked out of hating the Japanese.
The only "rational" thing to do is ignore them and spend time on people who can be reached.
At the very least, Wolfowicz should resign, if he is kept on it shows that Bush is committed to bungling and bamboozling, bungling and bamboozling, no question about it.
.....
SWR, it is now Person B who is doing the head-shaking over Bush bungling and bamboozling.
.....
That is what has Bush panicky and frantic and scrambling to try to get some traction.
.....
But Wolfowitz is doing a great job of reducing casualties--in his own mind anyway...
Asked during a Congressional budget hearing on Thursday how many American troops had been killed in Iraq, Mr. Wolfowitz missed by more than 30 percent. "It's approximately 500, of which — I can get the exact numbers — approximately 350 are combat deaths," he said.
As of Thursday, there were 722 deaths, 521 in combat. The No. 2 man at the Pentagon was oblivious in the bloodiest month of the war, with the number of Americans killed in April overtaking those killed in the six-week siege of Baghdad last year.
I was reading a WaPo article the other day over the shoulder of my trainer about a Marine who was really frustrated and confused about the whole situation in Fallujah. He was quoted as saying they were going in to build a soccer stadium, and now they were bombarding a minaret.
This soldier captured the essence of georgie and the neo-cons' mad-capped Iraqi adventure; namely, what the fuck are we doing there?
SWR, it is now Person B who is doing the head-shaking over Bush bungling and bamboozling.
To me it looks more like:
Person A: Sees 9/11 as a reason for self-examination. 25%
Person B: Gives way to fear of swarthy other. Think Little Green Footballs. 35%
Person C: Wants to ignore 9/11 and go back to normal. Wants to trust the government to take care of it. But will divide into category A or B when he's forced to confront it. 40%.
It's person C Bush has to worry about.
Person B will never question Bush any more than a fundy will question God. If Bush fucks up, it's just proof Bush is willing to act decisively and kick ass. If things go bad in Iraq, it's the fault of those damned liberals who won't let us take the gloves off.
smarty--Ouch. "going in to build a soccer stadium." Now, that is some bitter irony, considering what has happened to Fallujah's actual soccer field...
"I mean, one of 'em's gotta be President, at this point. Not much reason to vote, but then again, I'm not sure the reasons are ever much better than that, either."
yes,Robert, that's pretty much the way i have always seen it. and probably why i have never voted. i actually like kerry. partly my adolescence and the vietnam war thing. but i think he may actually make a good pres. could use a charisma injection, and the current war, well, god who knows what we do now. in other words "who knew he'd fuck it up so bad" i look forward to the debates.
NEWS FLASH- Blair sending 4,000 more Brits to Iraq to Najaf and Kut.
Bye Bye Tony, w will love ya, the brits will hate you.
my trainers are finally, finally letting me get some action with the fillies around here, so I'll let you be.
Before I go, I just want to say
1) Fuck Bush
2) Fuck trolls and
3) See you at the Preakness Stakes
Oh, and catch Joe Wilson on Meet the Press tomorrow if you can.
thingwarbler a good point, bringing out that iraqi war vet today was a touch. kerry may not have charisma (until he's good and pissed) but he's a good politician. and only about 100 times smarter than bush.
Might need the extra 4000 to secure the retreat into Kuwait.
Let the war games continue eh,tony?
other than saving their pathetic country from Saddam, Kuwait probably hates US too.
obviously England is no longer a democracy-Tony seems to care not about the will of the majority.
well looks like we're at the end of the thread, smarty knows it's time for rest. one last thought,
Why does Condalezza Rice still have her job?
We continue to win hearts and minds:
How bad is it? Very, very bad.
Photographs showing US soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners drew international condemnation today, with Arabs saying the US campaign to win the hearts and minds of Iraqis was now a lost cause.
"This is the straw that broke the camel's back for America," said Abdel-Bari Atwan, editor of the Arab newspaper Al Quds Al Arabi.
"The liberators are worse than the dictators.
"They have not just lost the hearts and minds of Iraqis but all the Third World and the Arab countries," he said.
...
The publicity could not have been worse in the Arab world, with the sexual humiliation in the pictures especially shocking.
"That really, really is the worst atrocity," Atwan said.
"It affects the honour and pride of Muslim people. It is better to kill them than sexually abuse them."
Arab satellite televisions, seen by millions of Arabs and Muslims, began their news bulletins with the pictures, which they said showed the "savagery" of US troops against Iraqi prisoners.
"They (Americans) said Saddam committed crimes against the people, now they are committing more vicious crimes in front of the whole world," said Yemeni university student Faez al-Kaynai.
Who here would like to see Bush and the rest of the neocons experience intense and agonizing physical suffering?
Just thought I'd ask.
Unbelievable. The Times reports that some Pentagon officials were unaware that the Iraqi General had been a member of the Republican Guard. And now they intend to investigate his background. After turning the city over to him.
Smarty -- Please come back here again. You race fast, and we love to get the commentary right from the horse's mouth!
In case you guys haven't seen this yet: The Globe and Mail's Heather Mallick on being on O'Reilly's show: "It was like talking to a manic child who had eaten 800 cherry Pop Tarts for breakfast."
If there really is a Hell, the fucking neocons are going to BURN in it. If that's not so, then someone needs to explain the whole fucking morality and Hell thing to me all over again.
Attention Neocons and IdiotChild Leader...
War is murder. Especially pre-emptive war. And especially pre-emptive war based on lies by greedy bastards! When we invaded, the minute we killed the first Iraqi, we were on the road to hell, as a nation. Not our soldiers, because they were doing their duty, but instead, our twisted leaders. They are GUILTY! They have made our Great Country (that I love) look evil to the world.
We can't let this happen again. Oh, and by the way, FUCK YOU RALPH NADER and YOUR PRISSY SHEEP! No difference between the Parties, eh? Fuck You!
It's absolutely clear that the bill was written in a way that would allow providers to discriminate against gays.
patriotboy | Email | Homepage | 05.01.04 - 10:31 pm | #
Oh man,
that has got to be one of the ugliest I have heard about lately...
anyone else catch this bit of insanity?
After you read what I've pasted below check out the roots of this crazy $h!t.
http://histclo.hispeed.com/essay...w2/ww2-
leb.html
head to the Lebensborn Program, section.
--------
Mission Statement: To discretely provide US troops shipping out overseas with the most sensually pleasing departure possible.
About US: 'Operation Take One For The Country' (abbreviated OTOFTC) is a movement of like-minded women (women predominantly as of right now) who have covertly organized into groups to frequent eating and drinking establishments near armed service bases where troops are preparing to ship out overseas, and take one for the country, so to speak. We are a virtual organization and have no official headquarters or charter. We believe US service men and women deserve our support and we are willing to make caring choices about making them happy.
http://takeoneforthecountry.com/
transcript of radio interview:
http://takeoneforthecountry.com/...m/
interview.asp
Store: http://takeoneforthecountry.com/...y.com/
store.asp
I've been thinking the Kerry Campaign should shift gears and campaign against Dick Cheney.
This is a brilliant idea. For it to work, you would need some preperation, and then some context. The next time Cheney goes on the attack against Kerry, Kerry should lay into him hard for becoming the "shadow president". Question him on why he thinks he has the authority to defy the law on his energy council? Why does he have to accompany Babushka through the scary 9/11 commission? What is his present role in Halliburton? Why is he still drawing paychecks from them? Shouldn't a sitting VP be willing to give up these payments to avoid a conflict of interest? Make the blood-sucking, cave-hanging vampire a goddamn campaign issue. At the very least, it should make him go through some more lithium batteries for his pacemaker.
About shifting to an attack on Cheney...
I've thought about this quite a bit. It's a very good strategy, but ONLY if we WAIT until after Bush is fully committed to Cheney as running-mate.
There is still a significant chance that Bush will dump Cheney before the election in order to raise his reelection prospects. I know, this sounds preposterous, because we all know what an empty hat Bush is, but you must remember, Rove is a powerful influence, and he doesn't like to lose, and if he feels that he may lose this election, he might talk Cheney into taking a walk.
The fact that Bush and Cheney both say that Cheney's the running-mate right now doesn't mean they are committed. Cheney can EASILY weasel out on the basis of a health complaint.
A new running-mate would throw everything up in the air and give Bush a terrifying boost in the polls. There are a number of people that he could choose as running-mate that would reinvigorate a flagging campaign. If Rove senses that the choice is between losing or picking a less-than-pure Republican hero like McCain or Rudy, he's pragmatic enough to ask Cheney to go.
But... after Bush is committed to Cheney, either close to or after the convention, Cheney becomes a GREAT target. It's just that targeting all weapons on him too soon would be counterproductive. Timing is important.
Think about that if you wonder why you don't see enough complaints about Cheney in the ads.
Ricky Vandal IS Kevin O'Keefe in "Please, Somebody, Please Come Read My Lame-Ass Fascist-Worshipping Wingnut Blog, Please, I'll Be Your Best Friend!"
Dumbo, is a good point. I think the moment when it is politically expedient to attack Cheney will come (barely) before the Republican convention. I have come to trust Kerry's political instincts. I think that he has played some masterful rope-a-dope and saved his money wisely. I know this for sure, the left is fighting, and fighting hard. For the first time in a long time, I think that we are going to win, and win big. Because we care more than the other side. But they have been building for 30 years. It's going to take a while. But damn, it sure feels good to be fighting.
C'mon Dems, throw a dog a bone. Give me someone to vote for, instead of just someone to vote against.
Seriously, I think that many Red State voters so seriously resent the Dem candidates for being such incredible weaklings that they could never even consider voting for someone so obviously devoid of intestinal fortitude. The weakness shines through. Howard Dean wasn't weak.
Said it before, say it again, I'd much rather go down fighting than go down in a close race with Kerry & crew playing patsy-cake. A close race will go to the incumbent. That Kerry can't even make a dent during this horrific time means he must be listening to McAwffle again.
Don't touch the Repugs - they're in power! We were just attacked! Don't you dare touch them! We'll die! We'll be forever lost as a national party! They walk upon the waters! Be nice! Be respectful! Commander-in-chief! Pray to W! Heaven forbid - please praise Lord Jesus on High - be nice to them!
Makes em effin sick...
Is Atrios at the Correspondant's dinner?
I think that the voters in November will be divided into these types:
Pure Bush supporters - no matter what
Pure Kerry supporters - no matter what
Former Bush supporters - will either vote Kerry, or a few will vote Nader, but I think that many will just not vote at all, as they are too Republican to actually cast a vote for any Dem.
The angry voter - everyone else who is angry and getting more angry every day regarding the lies, incompetency and total disregard for our brave soldiers lives by this administration. This is a huge swing voting bloc that has received little attention, but will get huge amounts in the coming months.
People are getting more and more angry about the fact that it is obvious that more could have been done to prevent or warn about the coming 9/11 attacks. That the adminstration saved their sorry asses but didn't care that NY (fuck NY, they don't vote for us anyway) was a huge target for terrorists.
Millions are still unemployed. The inability to feed one's family can make one a bit cranky in the voting booth.
The lies about WMD.
The total and utter incompetency regarding the prewar plans and our current war situation. Wolfowitz is so stupid that he doesn't know or care how many of our military have died, and goes before congress to prove how stupid the 2nd man in charge of the Pentagon is. That should sit very well with the military families. He should have been relieved immediately of his position as a man that incompetent has no business running a lemonade stand, much less a war. Now we know why we are in such shit in Iraq with this fool as one of the architects of the war.
Rove's blunder in having the convention in NYC will be evident and the GOP has put on some embarassing conventions in the past. The NYC convention can only be a good thing for Kerry.
The debates will probably be icing on the cake. Bush will be incoherent as usual and Kerry will not be as stupid as Gore was. Remember how awful that toady Lieberman was with Cheney? Look for a running mate not afraid to take on Cheney, a nice trial lawyer comes to mind....
The torture incidents are Bush's fault.
Bush is making mistake after mistake in this war.
We have an incompetent commander in chief. Clinton kept discipline in the ranks.
Even Bush 1 would not have allowed torture to become epidemic in the army.
More support for the resistance means more American soldiers die.
An incompetent president means more American soldiers die.
We're not versed In Geneva rules.
What we know we learned on barstools.
No one in our school
Said torture's uncool.
I mean, how do you wake up a mule?
US Service man escapes from his captors.
I think he will say he was treated better than the prisoners in Abu Ghraib.
Posted this on the previous thread (was rather trepidatious about trying to load a 500-post Haloscan thread!):
British Army now has doubts about veracity of photos of alleged atrocities committed by its soldiers.
I'm inclined to share their doubts. How hard can it be to find an appropriate photo or two and photoshop it? But that won't prevent the rapid slide of the hearts-and-minds campaign.
Saw this earlier, thought it was noteworthy/ironic.
What do Winston Churchill and Saddam Hussein have in common? They have both gassed the Iraqi people.
Sub-thread: Brit pics fake?
We saw floppy hats, camo patterns and weapons roughly matching the pics, and various different vehicles. Recall how rushed the conquest was-most of the Brits we saw at first were in woodland (green) pattern. They grabbed stuff together in a hurry, and of course you always have a variety of extra alternate stuff for a "rainy (or laundry) day" (even we [among most other Americans] had some spare uniforms not the official norm, to take up space and keep us from being naked "just in case").
If they got military experts putting images of all things over there next to the pics, they okay, they have exposed a heinous and disgusting (and very Brit Tabloidy) attack on the morale of their own sons and daughters. But that's not what it sounds like. It sounds like they're claiming, "well, that can't be right, because ONLY ONE KIND OF CERTAIN THINGS WERE OFFICIALLY DECIDED IN SOME OFFICE BUILDING TO BE DEPLOYED", and what you actually had in spades from each country involved (to include Iraq!) was a rushed hodge-podge.
To debunk this Venerable needs to just lay out side-by-side some real proof and not standard Porno-King-Turned-Minister-style slurring and implication. The Brits deserve to be free of doubt, not enslaved by squabbling but equal doubts.
Ricky Vandal IS Kevin O'Keefe in "Please, Somebody, Please Come Read My Lame-Ass Fascist-Worshipping Wingnut Blog, Please, I'll Be Your Best Friend!"
Generik
---That is RUBBISH
I was just looking at who links to my page. Look at this, it's from the National Alliance forum, remember the Kevin O'keeffe who visited my site yesterday is the leader, they hate me just as much as you liberals do:
">WARNING NEO-NAZI SITE FORUM
Here's a page on the weapon, from the RA's own site; it is not clear how they are distinnguishing a "mark one" from other kinds.
a truck, another truck, a different truck, yet another truck, this tight caterpillar thing, and a truck.
Hatter, some parts of the analysis I agree with, it should be noted however Bush base as it is, is dwindling, people here are beginning to grok, vote for Bush is vote for bog down and sucking sound and more of bungling and bamboozling, for more and more billions being whooshed overseas and for ever more deployments and practically nobody has any doubt he will once again start lurching and snarling and yowling and rowling for wah, wah, wah the minute he can.
Whether they are Repub or not, they are getting ready to vote for Dem to bounce his sorry tuchas, they know that is the best chance to heal the trajectory and empower the Iraqis and get our troops to heal the security there and gradually inch out, with Bush it is quagmire ever more.
Second point is on the issue of the debate, I doubt Bush will be incoherent, he prolly will not make any sense, but he will not be incoherent. On the contrary, he will be snarky and smirky and strutting around. Karen and Karl will toon him up real good with snarky zingers, that they will pop into his answers and many folks feel pretty sure his lapdog Vichy enablers will find a way to let him know the questions they are asking on, including slanting it in a way he can respond with his zingers.
All the public events will be hugely skewed by Bushies, we have our work cut out, in our favor is that people are fed up of the doofus and are ready to bounce his sorry tuchas and elect ourselves a warm, smart, affable, capable, genuine American war hero and then we can say Mission Accomplished thank you .
.....
US Service man escapes from his captors.
Congratulations, Thomas Hamill!
.....
Why does Wolfowicz still have his job?
.....
Why do we keep Bumblefeld Jihadi around?
.....
What I'm curious to know is how the EU enlargement will affect US support. Many of the eastern bloc countries that just joined had supported the US because they wanted to get into NATO...now that they are in the EU, it's more likely they will side with France and Germany (then again, Britain and Spain did not).
I wonder whether the EU's enlargement will increase or reduce the anti-American sentiment happening in the world right now
European Enlargement FAQ for those who want to know more about the enlargement -- why is it significant? what is changing? who is involved?
Anyone else get the feeling Thomas Hamill is the new Jessica Lynch?
I hate the semantic conundrum this adminstration has subjected me to. I never thought I would ever utter the phrase, "I hate bush."....
Steve in CO
yeah, that's why I always call him aWol or Whistle/WeaselAss, don't want to get that reverse Pavlovian response
"We are in the business of rigging elections." This from last week's Supreme Court opinion in Vieth v. Jubelirer.
Go here for more discussion.
Anyone else get the feeling Thomas Hamill is the new Jessica Lynch?
Danya | Email | Homepage | 05.02.04 - 4:39 pm | #
No, they didn't "save him."
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