I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
drip drip drip
"We intend to seek immunity for a myriad of officers who are unwilling to participate in the search for the truth without protecting themselves," Myers said today.
What was that about the Code of Honor at West Point?
Sigh.
Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the senior military spokesman in Iraq, said Sanchez was unavailable for comment last night but would "enjoy the opportunity" to respond later.
Yeah, enjoy the opportunity in much the same way that I enjoy a root canal.
Damn, Atrios, we are often on the same page!
Disgusting. The inhumanity is appalling.
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/...fm?
id=554042004
So much for swearing an oath to uphold the Constitution.
More crimes against humanity
'It starts off by being stripped naked in front of 10 police officers including two women, gratutious humiliation is used to break you down.' '... worst jail that you can possibly imagine.' 'Not even a hole to go to the bathroom. You have to piss against a wall and you sleep in piss on the concrete floor.' The torture victim demands 'the immediate shutdown of this secret underground prison'. It's not at Abu Ghraib, it's in Marseille, France.
http://www.liberation.fr/page.ph...?
Article=207798
Oh right, let's just give all the higher ups immunity.
This all leads back to Cheney. He knew about every bit of this.
This all leads back to Cheney. He knew about every bit of this.
Yup. He's the lynchpin. Take him down and the whole rotten mess comes crashing down.
Appalling.
http://www.islam.org.au/articles...1/r-
torture.htm
You Can't Handle the Truth!
-
OMG, how can we let this go on??
http://www.phrmg.org/monitor2000...000-
torture.htm
Watching the Nick Berg snuff tape over and over again, listening to it, etc, has led me to suspect that the same private intel and security contractors responsible for the worst of the Abu Ghraib abuses - notoriously brutal South African (and possibly Russian?) mercenaries among them - are the ones who kidnapped Berg, then videotaped themselves murdering him.
This, I suspect, they did to distract from the revelations of their behavior at Abu Ghraib (where Nick Berg worked for a while, despite his name being struck from the contractor books), and to soften the blow of far worse revelations to come, which they were in the unique position to know about.
Alone, the clues are worthless. Together, they begin to form an image. Same chair. Same walls. Same prison jumpsuit. The attackers have the same slovenly, overfed physiques on display in the abuse photos. The same thug swagger. And then there's the myriad videotape discrepancies.
Perhaps they even used the same video equipment.
At the very least, investigators need to find out whether any of the Abu Ghraib prison abuse video footage matches the footage of Nick Berg's murder. There are ways to find out, I'm sure.
A good companion piece to this story is today's NYT article "Only a Few Spoke Up on Abuse as Many Soldiers Stayed Silent" that documents how the pics were widespread throughout the prison and seemingly everyone knew about them.
It wasn't until Darby got a hold of a disk of photos from Graner that someone did the right thing and gave them outside the chain of command and into the hands of the Criminal Investigations Division.
God Bless Specialist Joseph M. Darby
http://tinyurl.com/ywovb
wow, we're just as bad as saudi arabia.
Murmurs about replacing Rumsfled with this guy.
Soemthing should be done. Where is the UN??
http://www.gotc.org/bayeen_11_07_03.htm
wow, we're just as bad as saudi arabia.
Yeah, I like how they come crawling out with their links to places that prove "other people are just as bad" as if that proves anything than "other people are just as bad."
America: As bad as other countries.
Not exactly a ringing endorsement.
The torture victim demands 'the immediate shutdown of this secret underground prison'. It's not at Abu Ghraib, it's in Marseille, France.
Hmm. We can keep lowering the bar for our excpectations and immoral behavior as a country. Heck. We can do that forever.
I just want to continue pointing out that comparing OUR national behavior to other nations' egregious behaviors is like arguing the America is just a less stinky piece of shit.
What about that Palme d'Or prize for Michael Moore, eh?
Jeebus loves ya baby.
Very interesting, Old Hat.
Dan Coats is a former Senator of Indiana. He is more conservative than his old colleague Dick Lugar - who led off NBC News tonight with his Iraq War criticism - but he would seem to be an o.k. pick. He is outside the neo-con cabal (I'm pretty sure) and rather uncontroversial. However, I don't remember him as being too bright. But maybe that's o.k.!
Wait a moment? Why haven't you shown us your own report on America's sins, Amnesty International? Oh wait, that's right, you aren't even a member of that fine organisation, are you? Fuck off, dickwad.
OMG, the Arabs will be outraged.
http://www.meib.org/articles/0007_l3.htm
Kate O'Beirn is having her right-wing ass handed to her by everybody including Novak on CNN tonight.
...man I gotta get a life.
Torture: the people we don't like do it, so that makes it OK.
Either The United States of America means something or it doesn't.
You have to choose.
What embolden's Terrorists more? Spain pulling out of Iraq or US soldiers anally raping Iraqis with nightsticks?
Well we know what his most important qualification is:
Above all, Coats was known for his conservative voting record and traditional values, which sprang from a deep religious faith.
from OpenSecrets.org
Yeah, OK, so I beat my wife, but my neighbors do it too.
See how that works?
Now print your condemnation of America, A.I. Gutless fucking troll.
Marines used electricity to torture.
While world attention was focused on the scandal at Abu Ghraib prison, two Marines were court-martialed May 14 for abusing an Iraqi prisoner with electricity, it was disclosed yesterday.
Five more Marines have been implicated in the same early April incident at a Marine-run detention facility and might face charges, according to Marine officials in Iraq.
Growing up a Hoosier, Lugar was seen as the wise elder, while Coats was a junior senator that pretty much just occupied space.
Now print your condemnation of America, A.I. Gutless fucking troll.
America's Nemesis
============
How about showing a little condemnation of somebody other than America you gutless fucking traitor.
How about showing a little condemnation of somebody other than Amer--
Dude. It's over. You lost. Bush is finished. It's over. Zero credibility. None of that Jesus shit is going to work anymore.
Just go away.
Dear Amnesty International,
Some of us are regular readers of your human rights reports. We are well aware that most other countries fucking suck rocks. I, sadly, have no influence on the government of Saudi Arabia. I do, however, have a wee bit of influence on my own.
This all leads back to Cheney. He knew about every bit of this.
Yup. He's the lynchpin. Take him down and the whole rotten mess comes crashing down.
Old Hat | Email | Homepage | 05.22.04 - 7:01 pm | #
For once, I think that's wrong. Here, the roads all lead back to Bush himself. Remember the Gonzalez memo, referring to the president's previous decisions about the legal framework that should apply in the war on terra?
How about showing a little condemnation of somebody other than America you gutless fucking traitor.
Uh, OK.
So your argument is that because we aren't up in arms about abuses in other parts of the world, we're "traitors" when we raise our voices about what US soldiers do in our names?
Just wanted to see how this works.
America: We're just as bad as other places, honest.
Not what I was raised to believe, but whatever.
Hey look, the Amnesty International troll has a profile at 3D realms, a gaming forum. Link.
He/she is majoring in "ceramic arts".
How about showing a little condemnation of somebody other than Amer--
------
Dude. It's over. You lost. Bush is finished. It's over. Zero credibility. None of that Jesus shit is going to work anymore.
-------
Who mentioned Bush? Is that all this is to you, an opportunity to score points on Bush? Fuck America as long as you can nail Bush, eh?. Maybe you need to get your priorities right. Bitch about Bush all you want, but quit undermining our men in Iraq. You people need to back up.
For once, I think that's wrong. Here, the roads all lead back to Bush himself. Remember the Gonzalez memo, referring to the president's previous decisions about the legal framework that should apply in the war on terra?
Very true, good points.
Amnesty International,
Why haven't you joined up? I mean, if you can't pass the psych tests they still might let you drive a truck or something.
How about showing a little condemnation of somebody other than America you gutless fucking traitor.
LOL
Someone else's son conducts a drive-by shooting? You feel shocked.
Your son conducts a drive-by shooting? You feel shocked and responsible.
Bitch about Bush all you want, but quit undermining our men in Iraq.
God, you're boring. Grade A snoozefest.
Go to the rhetoric store and buy some new cliches.
BJ,
You are right. All arrows point straight to the top. This also partially explains why heads aren't rolling left and right.
Li'l Timmy Russert subpoenaed. Repeat it again with me: "It ain't the crime, it's the coverup."
Bitch about Bush all you want, but quit undermining our men in Iraq.
Hey, fucknozzle: I think the guys who got busy with the sodomizing-sticks probably helped with the 'undermining'. And the people who stood by and nodded appreciatively might as well have sent out the men -- and women -- doing patrols in Iraq with big targets on their chests.
Who mentioned Bush? Is that all this is to you, an opportunity to score points on Bush? Fuck America as long as you can nail Bush, eh?. Maybe you need to get your priorities right. Bitch about Bush all you want, but quit undermining our men in Iraq. You people need to back up.
Rule # 1 of Republican Hypocrisy: Do not speak the truth if if "hurts" our boys overseas.
Do you really think that us exercising the very freedoms you CLAIM the US is "fighting for" in Iraq in any way could ever possibly "undermine" our troops in Iraq?
Let's see:
Putting them in harms way with lies is OK.
Undermanning the mission is OK.
Torturing Iraqis with war crimes is OK.
Daily attacks on them by people defending their homeland is OK.
Undersupplying them with armor and flak jackets is OK.
But by god if people here at home speak the truth about what is going on, it's "undermining our men".
You need to get a grip, chief.
Bush is the one who fucked those guys, not us. We're the ones who tried to stop it, remember?
Hey ceramics troll from Houston,
the sad thing is that you will probably never realize that people like Senator Inhoffe and Big Pharma are the ones who are letting down our troops.
You know, if they deem you too dim to drive a truck, maybe you could like change the candy bars in the vending machines on a carrier or base in Alaska.
Then when we talk shit about the government, we would be "undermining" you.
What an idiot. I predict he will storm out in a fit of pique.
Implicated Army officers will be those associated with Newt's political penetration of the Pentagon and the Bushies usurpation of merit promotion lists into a form of payback promotion list. AF heavily riddled but too fastidious for Gitmodification.
Not everybody though...negative Marine and Army Afghan reports surpressed.
Meanwhile, you didn't really hear that and I really wasn't here.
*snickers*
So much for your concern about troops in Iraq. The best way to protect them is to encourage them to stop torturing innocent people, and thus enraging the Iraqi's against them. Tell you what, seeing as you love games so much, why don't you go save America by playing this game:
http://www.newsgaming.com/games/...mes/
index12.htm
Go on, smush those terrorists! And if it all get's too confusing for you, and you can't work out how to win, why don't you go look up what the word "Nemesis" means. I'll give you a clue... It's unlikely to mean I'm an American. You dumb fuck.
Amnesty International:
Your report would have a smidgen of credence, if the "Golden Circle" for "Committee for a Free Lebanon" wasn't populated by characters like:
Elliot Abrams
Thomas Patrick Carroll
Paula Dobriansky
Philip Epstein
Douglas Feith
Frank Gaffney
Richard Greenfield
Jeane Kirkpatrick
Michael Ledeen
Richard Perle
Daniel Pipes
Michael Rubin
David Wurmser
From http://www.freelebanon.org/gc-f.htm
So basically, we've got a bunch of Neocons and Lebanese Christian expats pissed off that the Israeli's been booted out. The same sort of people that would equate Hizbollah with the Al-Aqsa Brigade and Hamas, despite the fact that the former hasn't sponsored terror attacks since the Israelis withdrew.
Its not as though the Christian Lebanese were blameless. Remember Sabrah and Shatilah?
FUCK - FUCK - FUCK - FUCK - FUCK
The evil bastards. Someone tell me that they can't give them all immunity up front. NO - NO - NO
Its not as though the Christian Lebanese were blameless. Remember Sabrah and Shatilah?
LOL
Typical Republican: Nope, doesn't ring a bell.
These people are simply ignorant of world affairs. I doubt most of them could find, say, Yemen on an unmarked map.
Or Afghanistan, for that matter. Iraq, probably, after two wars.
Fox News doesn't report on it, it didn't happen.
Talking Points has excellent posts up about new developments in the Chalabi case. The news shows tomorrow should be a blast. Maybe Chalabi will catch a cold and not appear. (Although many times they are taped on Saturdays.)
Anyway, Joshua covers a follow-up article from Newsday as well as a New York Post article that was covered prominently by NBC News in tonight's newscast that ties in the recent King Abdullah of Jordan visit with Bush.
(everyone else play that game too, it's worth it...)
"For once, I think that's wrong. Here, the roads all lead back to Bush himself. Remember the Gonzalez memo, referring to the president's previous decisions about the legal framework that should apply in the war on terra?"
More viscerally - the excuse being floated that what went on was no worse than what happens in a fraternity initiation. The meme sounds an awful lot like one that would have been used to sell the practices to -the only individual at a high level known to include fraternity hi-jinks as part of his core life-experience.-
Just saying. Psychologically and stuff.
Oh and that very silly little trog? He hasn't learnt how to play with others. Yet.
So. If you have enough rank, you'll get immunity except for a scapegoat or two.
How charming. Participate only if not charged.
Put every one of those suckers in jail who has asked for immunity. Arrest them now and let them sit. Please. This has to stop.
Scorpio
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Mid...t/
FE22Ak03.html
OT, but here's a choice bit from CNN's story on Pumpkinhead's subpoena in l'affaire Plame:
Novak refused to say whether he has also received a subpoena; he is referring all questions on the matter to his attorney.
Which means he has...
Legal protection may be the least of the "myriad's" worries.
The civilian attorney for Frederick, Gary Myers, said that he is asking the military to add investigators to his legal team so he can track down Reese and other witnesses, who have been scattered in military jobs throughout Iraq.
Not the safest occupational environment, especially for would-be canaries. If the special access program involved special ops with aliases, as Hersh reported, some of the other "witnesses" may prove very tricky to find. Meanwhile, any unindicted MPs with stories to tell must be jumping at their own shadows every day.
I know it's not a FPS like Quake or Unreal or all those other games where you get to pwn noObZ, you great hunk of a teena... I mean Texas Beefcake, but come back and play my game where you can smush terrorists!
Novak Suppoenaed!!! That's a headline I'd love to see. He would have the opportunity to show the world his fine journalistic ethics and refuse to give up his source; spending years in one of our fine penal institutions until he finally gave up the ghost reportedly from an "accidental overapplication of chemical light fluid...the prison officers have been given full immunity pending investigation...
Jesus, who would have thought Sanchez was tailored after Bruce Willis' portrayal of a general in The Siege. I hope one of these guys at least got to bang Annette Bening.
How about showing a little condemnation of somebody other than America you gutless fucking traitor.
OK. You bring the retarded donkeys. I'll bring the lube and the porn to get it going. We'll meet somewhere at donkey 250. Deal?
Isn't anyone going to play it? *sniff* The Guardian did describe it as a sort of "Sim-Chomsky"...
Who mentioned Bush? Is that all this is to you, an opportunity to score points on Bush?
I'm trying to figure out if Bush's IQ is high enough to qualify as a retarded donkey.
I posted this on another thread.Sorry to go OT.
Just got back in,and was listening to NPR.They were talking about a Supreme Court case called Renyolds v US.There is a debate about it's validity.The children of the victems of that case are petitioning the current bench to revisit the verdict.
Apparently 50 years ago the court was lied to and made a decision that has influenced later court cases with national security implications.It seems as tho everyhting that has national security implications is based on a flawed verdict and that we are being duped in every case that has N/S issues.
Are there any lawyers here that know anyhting about this issue?It sounded like we have been getting screwed for a couple generations and are paying a very heavy price today because of that decision.
smalfish,
there have been several reponses to your question on the previous threads, although it didn't seem anyone knew precisely the issues involved in the current case. The LA Times did a 2 parter, so that may be your best current source.
Sing along:
When facts reared their ugly heads, the troll turned tail and bravely fled.
Nemesis: I "played" it. It's too true, alas.
I'll give you a clue... It's unlikely to mean I'm an American. You dumb fuck.
------
Oh, well in that case you just don't matter then, do you. 
THanks Smarty.I had'nt seen any responses.Guess I am blind.I'll look for it.
I do if I'm an Iraqi. Or indeed, just anyone who feels like funding someone resisting torture. An Amnesty International Member, say...
What the fuck are they teaching you in your American schools?! because it can't be logic! Oh wait, that's right... ceramics *snorts*
The thing that I find aggrevating is that the person posting under AI assumes that the folks here don't give a rat's ass about other prisons/human right's violations. On the contrary: I am a member of AI and have actually written letters to world leaders, victims of political imprisonment, and donated large sums of money to AI (and I'm willing to bet a good number of posters here can claim the same or similar).
My condemnation of our acts in Iraq is ENTIRELY consistent with my beliefs. Of course, downplaying our moral failings by comparing them to others seems to be entirely consistent with "conservative" opportunism.....
The thing that I find aggrevating is that the person posting under AI assumes that the folks here don't give a rat's ass about other prisons/human right's violations. On the contrary: I am a member of AI and have actually written letters to world leaders, victims of political imprisonment, and donated large sums of money to AI (and I'm willing to bet a good number of posters here can claim the same or similar).
My condemnation of our acts in Iraq is ENTIRELY consistent with my beliefs. Of course, downplaying our moral failings by comparing them to others seems to be entirely consistent with "conservative" opportunism.....
I hope that didn't count as feeding a troll......
it did count as a double post!
it did count as a double post!
I've always wondered why people feel compelled to apologize for double posts and turn them into triple posts.
Of course, I'd just added a fourth post on said double post so I guess I shouldn't talk.
or spelling erors when it is obvious that people still understand what was intended.
sorry, erors = errors
Heh, smarty, you did that on purpose.
For a horse you are very well spoken. Good luck at the Belmont.
Thanks, PcH
I feel pretty good about the Triple Crown. If I don't win, it'll be o.k. But I sure the hell ain't going to lose to Imperialism. He's a frickin neo-con.
sorry, erors = errors
Yeah. I just gave a speach on that hte other day.
Sorry. That's speech obviously.
Sorry. That's speech obviously.
Oops. Double post. Sory.
From TPM: ..Chalabi's INC 'intelligence operation' was in fact a front for Iranian intelligence, filtering the US WMD disinformation prior to the war and sending highly classified American military intelligence to the Iranians hahahaha Bush & neocons have been paying $340,000/month this! It just gets worse and worse. And the more they blame Chalabi & co the stupider they look for getting taken...
Oops. Double post. Sory.
I mean sorry.
Is investigating the American-dispensed torture "supporting the troops"? It depends on whether one thinks that the United States has anything of principle to offer the larger world. If we decide to take Lord of the Flies as our political template, who gives a damn whether we or some petty third-world despot rules Iraq? What makes us "special"? or just better? Gee, it would really have to be about the oil, wouldn't it, given that the threat was never great enough to justify the invasion, before the postwar survey dismissed it as non-existent.
If the United States excuses the torture we join the run of history's failed political experiments with justice, each starting out with the aim of saving mankind and ending up in some pathetic attempt at saving its own ass. Maybe the next republic will do better, or maybe the "last, best hope" was misplaced forever. Sorry, Abe. We took what you gave us, and we fucked it. We fucked it hard.
What have you've done today to redeem the crimes that were committed in your name, Amnesty, and that you want us to ignore, other than throw some pots and troll this blog?
"Watch the discovery channel for gods sake.
They have layed it out several times about what caused those towers to collapse."
You're a friggin idiot. Do you know who owns the Discovery Channel? The same punts who own ABC. Who happen to be the punts THAT WOULD NOT RELEASE the Michael Moore movie.
Actually its worse. Discovery Channel is owned by Liberty Media, who are afflated with News Corp., which is the parent company of none other than Fox News.
Anything political on Discovery should be taken with a grain of salt.
Watching the arguing heads on cable is pretty funny these days. The infantile psychosis of trying to make the case for Chimpco no matter how absurd the situation. Kate o'Beirne and Bob Novak trying to spin a turd like the Abu Ghraib tragedy into gold for RIGHT side. Pathetic!
Michael Moore wins le Palme d'Orfor Fahrenheit 9/11.
Ha!
Looks like somebody pulled a Dirty Sanchez.
Ok I've had it with this crap- "How about showing a little condemnation of somebody other than America you gutless fucking traitor". my father-in-law spent 4 years as a prisoner of the Japanese in WWII (Bataan Death March suvvivor-"Hell ships" survivior - look them up if you don't know about them)and as a conservative Repub we don't often talk politics BUT I have never seen him so angry in the 37 years I have know him as he is about OUR troops doing these sorts of things-as a victim of torture for nearly 4 years he said what separates us from others is supposed to be our living up to who we profess to be -- so you young uneducated troll if you think condemning such acts makes a traitor I'll put his sacrifices for this country beyound anything you will ever do in your pathetic little video game life and place some authentic creditability in his condemnation of these acts. You know we set the standard at the Numeremburg Trial (you probably don't know about that either) when we prosecuted the Nazi (that would be the bad guys in the Indiana Jones films for your frame of reference!!)war criminals and WE said "following orders" was NOT an acceptable defense for unacceptable actions!
Xposted from dailyKos:
So Rees pleads the 5th (or the mil equivalent) but his lawyer testifies what he would say under oath if he'd get immunity? So the facts are out, but Reese didn't say them?
Do possible crimes revealed that way not count against Reese?
Not that any of this was terribly incriminating (besides knowing what took place and not reporting it up the chain of command or CID; besides, it is said in the article that it was reported but changes were denied).
Should have watched more JAG, I guess (couldn't bring me to it, was just too nauseatingly stupid).
So...the fact we're not condemning torture by other governments with each and every breath while condemning torture by our government makes us traitorous hypocrits? Okay, tell me something...how long do you have to train to make a leap of logic like that?
Li'l Timmy Russert subpoenaed. Repeat it again with me: "It ain't the crime, it's the coverup."
NBC says they will fight the subpoena on first amendment grounds presumably, but I think they are on thin ice here.
First Amendment protects what you say not what you know. Since he hasn't used whatever he heard on Plame case, Russert is like any citizen - no first amendment protection. I think that's the reason they didn't subponea Bob Novak, because he can seek first amendment protection, because he used the material.
Book little Timmy and make him talk.
Maybe even a slight, ugh, coercive treatment to make him talk.
Li'l Timmy Russert subpoenaed
What will Big Russ say? Is anyone as sick as I am of seeing Pumpkinhead worshipping his father?
Felix,
it wasn't Reese's lawyer who made the Sanchez claims. Schuck represents Chip Frederick. Also, what is compelling about this is that Schuck is not civilian, he is a military lawyer who is staking his career and honor on the line.
First Amendment protects what you say not what you know. Since he hasn't used whatever he heard on Plame case, Russert is like any citizen - no first amendment protection. I think that's the reason they didn't subponea Bob Novak, because he can seek first amendment protection, because he used the material.
That's clear so far.
But a journalist reporting on a story would learn many things that he wouldn't put into print (TV, whatever), maybe because he's still looking for corroboration, etc.
If the law suspected a journalist knew something about a story (maybe many sources) and did only report on one of them, could he be sup'd for the rest?
Could his files be taken? His comms tapped?
It has already happened (in germany) that somebody was cought by monitoring the cell phone calls & GSM movement of journalists.
Novak was walking around on the street telling strangers the story. How is that protected?
felix,
what is your take on how Germans are viewing the prison scandal?
any special condemnation, or is pretty much "well, what would you expect of the Americans"?
So has Bush already pardonned everyone up at the top of ladder with him? Poppy did it for his Iran Contra friends. Wouldn't put it past Bush II.
smarty--
Yeah, sure (hey, I can still read although it's 03:00 around here and I should REALLY get down to the bar now)
I was just wondering if the testimony of the lawyer (recounting Reese's statements) still was actionable (for the lack of a better word) for the court, while at the same time his client (Reese) didn't really make a testimony and therefore was protected by the 5th and waiting for his (pending?) immunity.
What about the usage of the word "myriads" anyway?
Are those low level guys?
I mean, not everybody should get immunity, right?
tmo, that was a thing of beauty.
The reason to abide by the Geneva Convention is that it is in our long term interest, and those of our soldiers, to do so.
This is what happens when you put a short-term thinking Harvard MBA in charge. He fucks everything up.
King Midas in reverse strikes again.
Anything political on Discovery should be taken with a grain of salt.
Who Bob...Deja vue
Wrong paste? 
smarty--
what is your take on how Germans are viewing the prison scandal?
The right (not even the far right) are conflicted between sucking up to Bush and showing glee (they haven't yet really gotten over this 1945 thing); something along the lines of "the americans are not better than us", being oblivious about the scale of atrocities.
Yeah, and of course you see all these references to the Stalag (Stammlager) where some german POW died'and the Dresden bombing, etc.
This has been going on for some time now, unrelated to the recent Iraq mess.
It's about the whole new nationalism, dominating Europe kind of thing.
The moderate left (governing at this time), beholden to their corporate masters just as the rest, are just tiptoeing around.
The mood is hard to gauge.
Condemnation yes, but the motives are a mixed bad and not all are honorable.
"mixed bag", of course.
Damn.
Felix,
you still have me confused. Shuck, the lawyer, is not representing Captain Reese. Shuck represents Chip Frederick. However, it appears that Shuck had interviewed Reese, whereupon Reese told him that he would testify about Sanchez if he was given immunity.
There would be difficulties with Schuck testifying about what he was told; however, I see no problem with this getting into the record of official military investigative reports. Also, he would make for a helluva witness before Congress.
smarty--
you still have me confused. Shuck, the lawyer, is not representing Captain Reese. Shuck represents Chip Frederick. However, it appears that Shuck had interviewed Reese, whereupon Reese told him that he would testify about Sanchez if he was given immunity.
Please regard my statement about my reading abilities are inoperative.
In fact, I was too lazy to check back.
You're right. I thought Schuck was Reese's lawyer.
Still, my question was about the usability of the facts revealed in the testimony regardless Reese being his client (the 5ths or whatever should hold regardless).
You adressed this below.
There would be difficulties with Schuck testifying about what he was told; however, I see no problem with this getting into the record of official military investigative reports. Also, he would make for a helluva witness before Congress.
Good. Agree about the impact of the lawyer.
Now into oblivion...back tomorrow.
This is exactly why we need a world court.
Anything political on Discovery should be taken with a grain of salt.
Bob the Machine
Anything that has a possibility impinge on profits on the electronic media should be taken with a box of salt.
I heard about the wonderful History channel for so long that when I actually saw it last year and found out that it was all about ghosts the experience was entirely depressing.
You can't get information from TV, with a few non-profit exceptions.
Who Bob...Deja vue
Wrong paste?
Too many open windows...
Okay, so here's the deal. I don't know what all the facts are surrounding 9/11, and journalists in the foreign press have been much more detailed about a litany of activities about that day that are, what I'll refer to as unusual.
Among them is a powerdown of the WTC on 9/8 aand 9/9.
Does that mean anything? I don't know, but I do know that I view the Discovery Channel with a modicum of scepticism due to its ownership, Fox, which is clearly a biased media organization.
Anyway, bottom line, I'm not saying there is or isn't more to 9/11 than we've been told because I really don't know.
Look, people. These are high-ranking, probably white and male, Americans. There is no reason why they should actually have to answer for their actions. Now, about that white trash private who single-handedly planned the whole thing, then seduced her superiors into corruption...
I heard about the wonderful History channel for so long that when I actually saw it last year and found out that it was all about ghosts the experience was entirely depressing.
The History Channel is owned by Disney, and it for the most part, reflects its ownership.
Doscovery has a lineage into Fox News.
NBC is owned by General Electric, who are huge RNC backers and have huge defense contracts.
PBS and your local community access channel (if you have them) are the only source on TV for reasonable informaion, My local access channel plays the Free Speech TV network which has shown images from Iraq that the other TV media here have yet to show.
Remember, Frank Wizner of the CIA called the media "the mighty Wurlitzer" for what its worth.
Seymour's Latest Column (4th in 4 weeks) Now on-line
The roots of the Abu Ghraib prison scandal lie not in the criminal inclinations of a few Army reservists but in a decision, approved last year by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, to expand a highly secret operation which had been focussed on the hunt for Al Qaeda, to the interrogation of prisoners in Iraq Rumsfeld’s decision embittered the Americam intelligence community, damaged the effectiveness of élite combat units, and hurt America’s prospects in the war on terror.
[...]
A senior C.I.A. official, in confirming the details of this account last week, said that the operation stemmed from Rumsfeld’s long-standing desire to wrest control of America’s clandestine and paramilitary operations from the C.I.A.
[...]
The senior C.I.A. official, asked about Rumsfeld’s testimony and that of Stephen Cambone, his Under-Secretary for Intelligence, said, “Some people think you can bullshit anyone.”
http://newyorker.com/fact/conten.../?
040524fa_fact
Oh, that crazy MoDo. Her latest is entitled "The Bay of Goats."
Among them is a powerdown of the WTC on 9/8 aand 9/9.
Does that mean anything? I don't know, but I do know that I view the Discovery Channel with a modicum of scepticism due to its ownership, Fox, which is clearly a biased media organization.
And I'll bet the powerdown has never been mentioned by Discovery or other media.
Bob, that is an interesting bit of info. Do you have a link?
Chuck S.
Of course Bob does. He is a machine.
Leaked British memo shows criticism of 'heavy-handed' US in Iraq
Are the Brits finally getting nervous?
Senior British officials have criticized the United States for its "heavy-handed" tactics in quelling recent unrest in Iraq, according to a leaked memo published in a newspaper.
The document, drawn up by Britain's Foreign Office for the advice of government ministers and top civil servants, also acknowledged that the alleged abuse of Iraqi prisoners by US troops had hit the coalition's "moral authority".
Despite widespread reports of rifts between the two closest allies in post-war Iraq, British Prime Minister Tony Blair has been at great pains to avoid criticising Washington's tactics directly.
Bob the Machine
"Anyway, bottom line, I'm not saying there is or isn't more to 9/11 than we've been told because I really don't know."
Excellent Bob.
Thats mostly what I was trying to tell the tinfoil brigade when I got jumped.
Thanks again for being reasonable when I really needed reasonable.
I know about passionate argument.
Hell I'm a Dean man.
so AAAAARRRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!
and have a nice day
tmo: give your pop a hug for me. do you share with him the insights from atrios and other blogs? i'd welcome hearing from him directly as a poster.
Chuck S.,
Article can be found at:
http://globalresearch.ca/about/
look for an article by Victor Thorn dated 4/23
For video, go to:
http://guerillanews.com/aftermat...th/
qt_hi_a.html
This program was recently run on my local cable channel, and is damn good.
BTW, here is how MoDo came to her Bay of Goats title:
...The hawks dismissed warnings from their own people — such as the Bush Middle East envoy Gen. Anthony Zinni — that the Iraqi National Congress was full of "silk-suited, Rolex-wearing guys in London." As General Zinni told The Times in 2000: "They are pie in the sky. They're going to lead us to a Bay of Goats, or something like that."
Zinni is on 60 Minutes tomorrow.
British deliver a 6-page diplomatic note to Bush in protest of use of force in Karbala and Najar and on prisoner treatment (at last). A diplomatic note is a big, big deal. Blair didn't phone, he didn't summon the US ambassador, he didn't send an e-mail.
It's been leaked to http://www.timesonline.co.uk. Registration in cash is required so I'm translating a piece of the article in French from Le Monde.
"The moral authority of the Coalition has been tainted... The heavy-handed US methods used in Falluja and Najaf several weeks ago have reinforced the Sunni opposition to the Coalition as well as that of the Shi'ites; these actions have caused us to lose much support within Iraq....The scandal of the treatment of prisoners in Abu Gharib has sapped the moral authority of the coaltion both inside Iraq and internationally....We have found it necessary to redouble our efforts to ensure sensible and reasonable efforts by the America in its military operations.
This is an ultimatum.
It just gets worse and worse. And the more they blame Chalabi & co the stupider they look for getting taken...
anon
anon,
Dan Rather started off his newscast last night with "It just gets worse."
Hah!
This is an ultimatum.
Last week the drip had officially turned into a trickle.Can we concur that this week the trickle is turning into a stream?
Find the pictures, he said, "and you will find everything I said was true."
- Iraqi prisoner in statement to Gen. Taguba investigators.
nur,
when was the note delivered?
Agreed that we certainly have a rill.
and when the trolls say "this wouldn't be a problem if you traitorous liberal scum weren't using it to further your Bush-hating agenda" they should know the average Iraqi knew all about this mess long before we did (example being the sculpture of the prisoner that's been on display in Baghdad since March). No fricken wonder things got worse.
19 May.
"Bay of Goats, or something like that." (should be sheep, not that that matters)
Of course, in the Bay of Pigs we were bright enough to "not send our own boys three thousand miles to do a job [their] boys can do pahfecly well theyumselves." (after LBJ re VN)
Nick,
agreed. It also brings up the fact that I think this horrific scandal will negatively impact our own democracy more than it will affect average Iraqis.
The behavior and cover-up of some of our most senior military leaders, let alone the civilian administration, will have ramifications for years to come.
This is worse than Watergate.
Oh crap...I made a translation mistake...it's not a diplomatic note; it's a Foreign Office confidental memorandum. Looks like it's leaked to embarrass Tony.
Dang. I'm sorry. Got all excited about "note." But it's a memo.
OT: Here's what one of Crazy Davy's columnists had to say about Chalabi just one short year ago:
What is Ahmed Chalabi's ultimate sin? He is "too" pro-American. He actually wishes to build a liberal democracy in Iraq. Hence, he may be seen as an "American stooge," i.e., a person who enjoys the good will of the sole super power and the military ruler of Iraq. People who wish to be on America's good side may just dare to flock to him. We wouldn't want that, would we? No, "authentic" Iraqi leaders like pro-Syrian Baath party members, pro Saudi Sunni clerics or pro-Iranian Shia ones must know that the US plays no favorites. Consequently, a Shiite ayatollah like Mohammed Hussein Sadr openly asserts that his skepticism about Ahmed Chalabi's is based in part upon his intentions toward Iran. But Chalabi must assure supplicants that he enjoys no American backing and has no goodies to disperse. Iran may reward it allies and punish its opponents but America cannot stoop so low.
Sorry, here is the link to the article I cited above.
you sure are earning your turkee.
i thought george was going to punish the ones who did this?
empty words again.
the final, larger story is now up at the WaPo with more details.
Also good is the MPs were told to rough them up article.
as well as the in iraq, the job of a lifetime story.
More immunity is on the way.
From The Observer:
British and American troops are to be granted immunity from prosecution in Iraq after the crucial 30 June handover, undermining claims that the new Iraqi government will have 'full sovereignty' over the state.
Despite widespread ill-feeling about the abuse of prisoners by American forces and allegations of mistreatment by British troops, coalition forces will be protected from any legal action.
They will only be subject to the domestic law of their home countries. Military sources have told The Observer that the question of immunity was central to obtaining military agreement on a new United Nations resolution on Iraq to be published by the middle of next month.
The new resolution will lift the arms embargo against Iraq, allowing the country to rearm its 80,000-strong army in readiness for taking over the nation's security once coalition forces finally leave.
'The legal situation in Iraq will be very difficult after 30 June, with some confusion over where jurisdiction lies,' said one Whitehall official. 'We wanted to ensure that British troops maintained the immunity they already have under Order 17.'
Order 17 refers to an agreement signed by the Coalition Provisional Authority giving American and British troops protection. That will now be extended to the new multinational force made up of British and American forces which will remain in Iraq at the invitation of the interim government.
Last night MPs demanded that Iraqi citizens should have some form of legal redress following allegations that people had died unnecessarily during gunfights with British forces.
'How is anyone in Iraq expected to bring a case in the British courts?' said Adam Price, the Plaid Cymru MP for Carmarthen East, who has been credited with uncovering many of the claims made against British troops.
'It is taking the idea of diplomatic immunity and applying it to 130,000 troops. There is a danger that you are actually going from immunity to being able to act with impunity.'
Price said that there should be a military ombudsman based in Iraq who could investigate any allegations against coalition troops and call for further action.
130,000 troops will be free from prosecution by the Iraqis. Wonderful Democracy in action.
For those of you who've been following the Washingtonienne mini-scandal, the WaPo has a new article up about Ms. Cutler.
No new pics though.
Curses.
did you ever wonder how the staunch and leal citizens of 1930's germany reclined and allowed the satanists to have their way?
now we know how it happened. we have but to look in the mirror to see the portrait metamorphosizing. from a visage of honor to a visage with a little mustache, jack boots, etc.
if my historical memory is correct, the initial inmates of dachau were labeled terrorists. they weren't jews, by the way. most of them were catholics from oberbayern who opposed adolf and his myrmidons.
gitmo, abu ghraib, gaza, west bank jerusalem. what are the names of their predecessors? i think them to be...
dachau, treblinka, buchenwald, oswiecim, madanek, etc, etc, etc.
what should be astonishing is that so many jews do not protest this resurrection of the nazi ethos.
what is not astonishing is how so many christians persist in their bloodlust.
it is as if the new testament had no place in the xtian teachings.
it makes you wonder why the xtians even use the new testament as a part of their sacrament.
they may say that they revere and worship jesus, but we have now seen, their real gods are mammon, ba'al.
and that is who george bush is...damian. the spawn of satan. the acolyte of beelzebub. make no mistake. this may be the end times and he may be the exterminator.
this spawn of satan must be removed from the affairs of good mankind.
there is no real need for blood on the plains of meggido. to believe otherwise is to be engaged in deliberate insanity.
i don't go to these extremes very often, but i was watching a history channel doc on the inquisition. as the doc examined the tortures of that misadventure, i saw abu ghraib, gitmo, et alia.
so, george bush has become the evil pope. and all of his cardinals have empowered torquemada.
the time has come to end this evil bit.
the democrats need to discuss all of this in just these terms.
it is a war of good versus evil. with what side do the democrats want to align?
will they be good germans? or will they find their cojones and speak up, fight the forces of darkness?
lamentably, that question is in question.
so write your demos today. exhort them to be bulwarks of sanity...fidei defensors.
did you ever wonder how the staunch and leal citizens of 1930's germany reclined and allowed the satanists to have their way?
reposting because i did not care to be anonymous....
now we know how it happened. we have but to look in the mirror to see the portrait metamorphosizing. from a visage of honor to a visage with a little mustache, jack boots, etc.
if my historical memory is correct, the initial inmates of dachau were labeled terrorists. they weren't jews, by the way. most of them were catholics from oberbayern who opposed adolf and his myrmidons.
gitmo, abu ghraib, gaza, west bank jerusalem. what are the names of their predecessors? i think them to be...
dachau, treblinka, buchenwald, oswiecim, madanek, etc, etc, etc.
what should be astonishing is that so many jews do not protest this resurrection of the nazi ethos.
what is not astonishing is how so many christians persist in their bloodlust.
it is as if the new testament had no place in the xtian teachings.
it makes you wonder why the xtians even use the new testament as a part of their sacrament.
they may say that they revere and worship jesus, but we have now seen, their real gods are mammon, ba'al.
and that is who george bush is...damian. the spawn of satan. the acolyte of beelzebub. make no mistake. this may be the end times and he may be the exterminator.
this spawn of satan must be removed from the affairs of good mankind.
there is no real need for blood on the plains of meggido. to believe otherwise is to be engaged in deliberate insanity.
i don't go to these extremes very often, but i was watching a history channel doc on the inquisition. as the doc examined the tortures of that misadventure, i saw abu ghraib, gitmo, et alia.
so, george bush has become the evil pope. and all of his cardinals have empowered torquemada.
the time has come to end this evil bit.
the democrats need to discuss all of this in just these terms.
it is a war of good versus evil. with what side do the democrats want to align?
will they be good germans? or will they find their cojones and speak up, fight the forces of darkness?
lamentably, that question is in question.
so write your demos today. exhort them to be bulwarks of sanity...fidei defensors.
There is a really crazy (and big!) story at the WaPo about how the CPA was run by a bunch of inexperienced, young conservative flunkies. Here is a killer paragraph describing how the various kids were selected:
"For months they wondered what they had in common, how their names had come to the attention of the Pentagon, until one day they figured it out: They had all posted their resumes at the Heritage Foundation, a conservative-leaning think tank."
That explains it all, folks!
http://tinyurl.com/22zqj
Albert, how old are you? Learn to write. We could tell that was you, because no one but freepers writes like that. Your conviction is useless when your presentation is like that.
"This is worse than Watergate."
Taking this OT, but Mr. Dean was in Denver last week. I had him sign my copy of Worse Than Watergate and Blind Ambition. Shook the hand of history. It was a moment for me. By the way, the book is fabulous. Mostly things everyone knows, but to have it bundled nicely like that...it's a blood pressure spike. I've been pissed since I read it (blogs help that too).
Worse than Watergate, indeed.
Humanitatian,
Did you read Dean's review of Joe Wilson's book? I think there is still a linky on the front page of the NYT.
The British thing was interesting. I read Blair is in dangerous territory, proposing to replace the Spanish troops with British. The generals are up in arms. The British attitude in their region of Iraq is "If we're nice to them, they'll be nice to us". They say the US attitude "We'll be nice to them if they're nice to us" will directly endanger the UK troops in the more dangerous areas they will be taking over.
golly, smarty, they sent Friends to run Iraq.
There is a really crazy (and big!) story at the WaPo about how the CPA was run by a bunch of inexperienced, young conservative flunkies.
I know that someone shouldn't be judged on their parents, but the fact that the daughter of that fucknut Michael 'Next, Tehran!' Ledeen got a cushy job at the CPA makes me seethe.
Well, not as much as the fact that the son of George H. W. Bush got a cushy job at the White House by sending in his resume to Dick Cheney.
"Did you read Dean's review of Joe Wilson's book? I think there is still a linky on the front page of the NYT."
Not yet, but I have the book. I'll read anything Dean, right now, though. Thanks.
Friends! That sounds about right, as the show ended. Although Friends had a good, long run, unlike the Heritage Youth!
Re: The WaPo article on the Heritage Foundation types staffing the CPA. I really didn't think I could be more sick at this disaster. But I am sick, sick sick.
I'm pretty sure Atrios will get around to posting this story. It is too funny, sad, and predictable all at once.
The logic of the First Amendment protecting communications with journalists is to protect little people exposing abuses by the powerful.
To claim a First Amendment grounds for protecting a powerful person engaging in criminal behavior as retaliation against a less powerful person seems a complete perversion of the point of making communications with journalists privileged.
As a perversion I expect it to be fully embraced by Scalia and some others justices.
Why can't the Bush administration just tell who behaved badly? Is it because they are all criminals that have interlocking information on each other?
Nader should promise to fully prosecute members of the Bush administration and their political allies that engaged in criminal activity. The first investigation should be into Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris intentionally disenfranchising Floridians.
I read all the posts and noticed the troll disappeared - it's gotta' be tough to twist yourself into a gordian knot in order to try and defend this stuff -
It's murder and it will color how the world views everything America does for a generation - what has been lost here is too large to measure
I still haven't recovered from Atrios's Thursday post of Soldiers torturing a 16 year old boy to get at his father - how come that story didn't have legs?
Everyone too scared, appalled to look at this story a second time?
A lot of folks don't seem to understand.
In this case, immunity is good, as long it means that the witnesses can incriminate Lt. Gen. Ricardo "Dirty" Sanchez... and that's exactly what the article is suggesting will happen.
Exemption for oil
Yup. They are going for immunization from prosecution... or they won't give Iraqis their oil back.
I'm so glad that GW Bush went in to Iraq to get the Iraqi oil back in to the hands of the Iraqis that it belongs to.
Mr. Nyberg - take your Nader stuff and stuff it. It's been tried here before, and it flat out won't work.
Bye.
Why can't the Bush administration just tell who behaved badly? Is it because they are all criminals that have interlocking information on each other?
Yes, that's it exactly.
And that is why they have only fired people who were honest in public: those people weren't trusted with the really juicy stuff.
The rest of them? A crime family, from top to bottom. Only a public trial, prosecution, prison time, will be sufficient to cut this cancer out of our democracy. We must make an example of them, so nobody ever again gets the silly notion that we really like fascism.
It's up to us to handle this problem. If we don't, I worry that the rest of the world may go all Vorlon on our Shadow-tainted country.
i'm 90 years old. and a wobbly.
at the moment, as i see it, there is no goddam difference between the dems and the thugs.
if there were, you would have been hearing the dems denouncing the satan that is george bush.
it is just as it has always been..korea, vietnam, indonesia, malaysia, dominican republic, lebanon, angola, grenada, argentina, chile, etc etc.
democrats aligned with the rethugs to kill.
and don't you forget it k&y.
if you read me as a freeper, then you need new glasses.
do a exam of my posts. if they sound freeperish to you, then you need to check into a psychiatric ward.
sic semper tyrannis
Worst game of Calvinball. Ever.
Look, "nonagenarian", just make paragraphs and form the thoughts into actual points or cycles of evidence and analysis, and try not to rant for a whole page and then repeat yourself...
You said crime family? Patrick Fitzgerald (the U.S. attorney subpoenaing the reporters) knows all about prosecuting crime families. His last assignment was Chicago. He scared the living daylights out of lots of people who needed the living daylights scared out of them.
The Springfield IL paper said that both Senator Dick Durbin and (dare I say it? Presumed Senator-to-be) Obama support keeping Fitzgerald as U.S. Attorney for Northern Illinois even after Kerry wins. Fitzgerald's that good. The story even says Durbin hopes Fitzgerald gets assigned the memogate investigation (you know, the R's getting into the D's computers).
I'm pasting the story from Google cache since I'm not sure how to link to a cached file:
Patrick Fitzgerald safe
There's been some talk that if Democrat JOHN KERRY wins the presidency, that could mean that PATRICK FITZGERALD, the Chicago-based U.S. attorney who is prosecuting former Gov. GEORGE RYAN on corruption charges, could be out of a job.
But not if U.S. Sen. DICK DURBIN has a say in the matter. And Democratic U.S. Senate candidate BARACK OBAMA agrees.
Durbin, who as the senior senator from Illinois would have the ear of a Democratic president on such appointments, would support having Fitzgerald stay on, said Durbin spokeswoman CHRISTINA ANGAROLA.
In fact, Durbin also hopes that Fitzgerald is assigned to investigate how Republicans got hold of Democratic computer memos in Washington.
Obama, in Springfield last week after his sweeping win in the primary, said he, too, would recommend that Fitzgerald be retained.
Patrick Fitzgerald was recommended for his job by U.S. Sen. PETER FITZGERALD, R-Ill. They are not related, but getting that tough and independent prosecutor named may be the lasting legacy of Peter Fitzgerald's single term in the Senate.
"I will confess that when Mr. Fitzgerald originally appointed him, my attitude was there are an awful lot of good lawyers here in Illinois," Obama said last week. "But given the good job that he's done at this point, I see no reason to remove him."
well, hey kY[is that a lubricant?],
why don't you show me how my post [s] should be better organized.
at the moment, i am thinking that you are a pair of trolls.
yes?
Look, you ramble about things we agree with but would never arrange in a needlessly spaced list, then you repeat yourself. You have effectively done more with that one stunt to derail the thread, turn off Le Eschatonique, and mock the dignity of the Turtlenecked One with that one stunt than Virtus or Darth or Taters ever did. Asking for a little stylistic standardization is not censorship. You can say the same thi1ngs, but do it succinctly, efficiently, and for Baby Jeezus's sake don't repeat yourself.
[giggling]
no, YOU'RE a troll!
no, WE'RE the trolls!
we are BANNED AND DELETED!
All the brown skinned people down in gitmo. They even lock up american military officials(James Yee to name one). When is Chalabi going to Gitmo? That should be the first question he gets in each interview. Who is keeping you from being arrested and being locked up without due process? We need to start sending questions to the Sunday talk shows.
anyone: So, why are you not in Gitmo?
Chalabi [turns on pedophile smile]: Well, the people in the detention centers are horrible people, terrorists, worst of the worst, and clearly I am not one of them.
anyone: are you a spy for Iran?
Chalabi [pedophile smile somehow intensifies]: I defy you to find a paycheck in English or Arabic from the Iranian government paid to me specifically for illegally spying! No, no, what is important is the schools we are building, and the throngs of people who want me as an Iraqi leader,-
anyone: [interrupting] who would that be?
Chalabi: well, those Chalabists on the screen there. [pointing to footage of the Mahdi Army chanting something about Sadr]
clarification: the paycheck can't be in Arabic because Iranians speak Farsi...
never mind...
At least we're not as bad as Marseille, France! At least we don't behead! We're not as bad as saddam was! Look!
At least we're not as bad as Marseille, France! At least we don't behead! We're not as bad as saddam was! Look!
LOL Anyone who thinks we're not as bad as the French has never been in prison in the US.
Behead? No, it's true. We use the chair. Much more humane, correct?
As for being as bad as saddam? No, but man, we've only been there for a year. Give us a chance, buddy.
Saddam: Rape. US: Rape. Check.
Saddam: Murder. US: Murder. Check.
Saddam: WMD. US: WMD. Check (and from the same suppliers, no less!)
Saddam: Use of Gas. US: Use of Gas via Saddam as proxy. Check.
About the only thing we haven't done is invade Kuwait and Iran. But like I said, give us time, friend. Give us time.
Asking for a little stylistic standardization is not censorship. You can say the same thi1ngs, but do it succinctly, efficiently, and for Baby Jeezus's sake don't repeat yourself.
This is an appropos and utterly hilarious critique of your own writing! You, dear kei & yuri, never make sense in your posts, which mostly amount to cryptic snigglings. When brought down to the mat in logical argument, you disappear. I have myself pinned you in argument on this very blog, and you are silent in the face of historical facts. In fact, all of your posts strike me not only as illogical, but rigidly amoral. To top it off, you persist in rudely hectoring a thoughtful ninety-year-old.
Albert's post is in fact the most thoughtful, reasoned, and penetrating post on this otherwise disappointing thread.
You, on cue, predictably throw out your "valient nihilism" in attempting to ridicule him for calling Bush evil. But in fact Albert is right. Bush is evil.
Get used to it, ken & yuri. Evil exists. More than that, evil is personified by those who waged this war, supported this war, and now attempt to rationalize their beastial crimes.
Face it, William. Albert exists. And you are Albert.
Kidding.
No, really, where was it in our comparisons of Bush to Hitler (usually in favor of Hitler, since on a personal basis at least he served in an infantry unit, took prisoners and was decorated) that you got the impression we didn't think Hitler-er, that is, Bush was evil?
And where was it we met before, handsome?
Characters Remaining:
Commenting by HaloScan
