I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
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OT - Breaking News
Journalists subpoenaed in CIA leak case
How dare New Jersey ask the rich to pay their fair share. Doesn't the state understand that that they are a privilaged class that should be free of the burdens of citizenship?
Liiiaaarrrr!
Wow. What a boring article. I think I'm more boring (if that's possible) for having read it.
In this time of war, and when everything we hold precious about America is failing, can we find something better to speak about than 41% is really only 1.67% (who CARES if its true)? Or maybe, something less ridiculous than Maryland annexing Delaware? Where does this get us, exactly?
Better, IMO, to talk about real Americanism. No one likes Kerry (including me, but I'll probably plug my nose and vote against Bush), but Bush screwed the pooch big time. It will take some pain to rectify the situation. First and foremost, to the wealthy - "F You". You've done pretty well over the last three years. In fact, you did quite well under the eight years of the Clinton administration. And, as history is the best teacher, a Kerry administration wouldn't kill you or anything. Actually, from an economic standpoint, you could do worse than Kerry. Its not like he's gonna give everyone healthcare or universal education or anything. Making our nation not look despicable won't cost you too much coin.
NOW is the time so show your patriotism. You can show it by shutting up and paying your share of the burden. You can show it by keeping your (our) jobs in this country. Its not like India or China made you rich. AMERICA did.
S in Mich, if you don't vote for Kerry, I'll hunt you down and kick your ass. OK, not literally, since I'm small and scrawny, but the Internet calls for talk tough so I give it. But, the point is: he's your option. Vote for him. Embrace him. Say "President Kerry" lots of times and smile. Otherwise, it's God knows how many more years of this crap.
Y'know, I think that Max and S in Mich could make a good tag team against Blowhard O'Reilly. Max lays out the numbers, S in Mich gets in O'Lielly's face with 'Shut up! Shut up! Pay your share!' It's the only language these wingnuts understand.
"No one likes Kerry"
Speak for yourself. U happen to like the guy. Have you met him personally? Have you been to any of his events? Here in Iowa we got to see all of the candidates up close. They sat with us in groups as small as 3 or 4 people. They asked us about the things that really mattered to us.
I hope you hold your nose and vote for him. I will be running to the polls to cast my ballot for Kerry.
(And that's a compliment to S in Mich, btw.)
Ot
I was just watching a tape I made from last month. The thing is, it was a West Wing episode from Bravo about Leo being a recovering alcohcoilc and there was a red dot from a pen light or something on the tape.
Being a good ole GA boy I also recorded the Masters on the same tape. The red dot apppears on the Masters tape as well as on the West Wing Tape, am I being parannoid, it is like being in a theatre and someone with a red pen is giving a commentarry on the movie.
I have given money to Atrios and Kerry in the last month, but the red dot was not on my tape last month.
WTF. I am not crazy or a conspricery nut but the floating red dot is driving me nuts.
Any ideas?
Hey Grok, "Bring It On" or, if you prefer to be more Bush-like (as Kerry does), "Let's Roll".
Kerry does not own the entirety of the anti-Bush vote, and Nader does't own the anti-Bush/anti-Kerry vote.
I live in a very blue district. My rep is Conyers, my Senators are Levin and Stabenow. Locally, GOPers don't even run candidates. Thus, I enjoy a certain amount of freedom with my vote.
My freedom tells me my vote is NOT for the pro-war voting Kerry.
Here's hoping Bush loses.
Um, isn't it about 20 years too late to expect the GOP to engage in honest policy debate?
This is why the Dems keep getting creamed. We go on these shows with all of our nice numbers and explanations; the GOP guys just lie their asses off and call us names.
When are we going to learn to play hardball?
Oh, this is kind of funny:
President fell off bike today... Kerry told reporters in front of cameras, 'Did the training wheels fall off?'... Reporters are debating whether to treat it is as on or off the record... Developing...
JJ is right about one thing. $500,000 is less than a million, so if somebody begins a year with no wealth, earns $500,000, and drops dead, he isn't really a millionaire. And that's why Jarvis predicts John Kerry will lose New Jersey.
McGreevy (as is any governer during a recession) is unpopular in New Jersey right now so it's unlikely his getting any more unpopular will take the state for Bush.
(White Suburban) New Jersey's basically a Republican state that went for Gore in 2000 because of the culture war. (Rich Suburban) New Jerseyites hate taxes but they also hate fundamentalists.
So it's the cultural issue that counts. If you look only at per capital income, NJ and CT should go Republican and Mississippi and Alabama should go Democrat but they don't.
'Did the training wheels fall off?
More like his tires blew out (like his policies).
I like Kerry, and if he really made that crack Drudge quotes, that's another reason. I don't agree with all of his positions, but if I did that would be scary- it might mean I had latent Republican tendencies toward worshiping false idols.
Like Clonecone, I was lucky enough to see him in a relatively small venue where he spoke and did some Q and A. He connected quite effectively. He is getting kind of a screwing in the media on that "stiff, aloof" script and also on the "I'm not Bush" theme. He gave a speech on health care in Florida where he answered a question on Iraq- which was the only part that got any media play.
I think the lad has potential, in other words. I hope we'll find out for sure.
Thanks for the link, Atrios! I just e-mailed Max's page to my sister in NJ, the sibling whose politics are a mystery to me. Maybe she'll respond (finally) with her thoughts so I'll know how she stands.
S in Mich -- I disagree, boy do I disagree, about the "boring" accusation. I don't think it's boring to be able to figure out when somebody's trying to bamboozle me. One of the (huge) problems we have, the kind of problem that allowed us to get into this huge quagmire of a war, is that people have become so freakin' intellectually lazy that they can't even figure out when they're being lied to. And you can see the price we pay for that. "Innumeracy" is just one part of it.
Why don't you guys consider moving to a decidedly socialist country like France or Germany ...
I read an article in last weeks NY Times where it seemed pretty clear that Kerry is trying to neutralize Nader by massaging his ego. If he can pull it off, then he's already shown himself to be smarter than Gore.
"Did the training wheels fall off."
Yep. If he said that, it ranks right up there with Frank Lautenberg's chickenhawk visual.
Kate, I don't care that you disagree with me. I'm just surprised about why.
This nonsense has gone on for decades. That certain folks find it noteworthy is shocking - not the subject material.
Remember? Kerry was the one that first said outloud to the media "we need a regime change here at home"?
April 2003...
REGIME CHANGE
No, I don't remember. I was too busy trying to figure out if Kerry was for or against the war - or both.
Again, here's hoping Bush loses.
Yeah. Fuck Bush, but let's not imagine Kerry is so much better. It is the difference between a sane Republican and a completely insane, apocalypse-seeking hijacked-Republican NeoNazi conversant with Jeezus. On the one hand, not much of a choice, but on the other hand, not requiring much thought.
TO THE RAMPARTS!
kei & yuri,
Or, as I told my dear mother on the phone, it'll be nice to go back to the Clintonesque days, when we had to make sure the cat was doing his job, hold his feet to the fire, and not have to worry that the insane goober in charge was planning for the apocalypse...which he's looking forward to, apparently.
prediction, two years from now:
After cleaning up the numerous messes of the previous criminal administration and restoring America to a Kennedy-era state of dignity,
PRESIDENT KERRY MAY BE HAVING SEX!!!!
and LOOK AT HIS BARBARIAN DAUGHTER!!!
Who held Clinton's feet to what fire?
He gutted welfare, signed DOMA, and got a BJ in the Oval Office. On the last point, I don't care about the moral issue (and, yes, the GOP seized used it as an excuse for an attempted coup d'etat).
But I DO care that he was arrogant enough to think it wouldn't be found out. I hope the head was good, because THAT is what cost Gore the election - not Nader.
Anyway, back to the larger point. Saying Bush sucks won't win Kerry the election. Actually, it was Clinton who said (after the 2002 "chasing the middle" debacle), "they'd rather have somebody who's strong and wrong than somebody who's weak and right." Kerry is the poster child for this weakness.
But, let's hope Bush loses.
S in Mich,
I didn't say we actually got the sumbitch to do anything. I'm of the crowd that considers Clinton Republican-lite, but you gotta admit...people can actually act on the stuff he did and did you ever worry he might start World War III?
If anything, I'd hope the Clinton era taught progressives and Democrats of all stripes the importance of holding the bastards to task. It doesn't end with Bush's defeat in November.
Backslidre, don't preach to the choir, tell that to the kneejerk Naderblamers who've never heard of Terry Mac.
Point taken, Backslider. I don't hate Clinton, per se, but I am cognizant of the fact that his behaviour ushered in the current mess. Not just the BJ, but the "third way", a/k/a compassionate conservative stuff.
When Clinton was elected, Democrats held the House, the Senate, the majority of State Houses and the majority of Governorships - none of which are true today.
I don't hate Kerry either, but I harbor no illusions of Kerry's election being a panacea for the country or the world.
Regardless of whether Kerry wins or loses, the Democratic Party is going to be in crisis after this election. It doesn't know what it wants to be nor who it wants to represent.
For that matter, the GOP will be doing some soul searching, too (again, regardless of the outcome in November). Like in the Democratic Party, there is a sizable minority (thus far mostly below radar) who are fed up with the leadership and direction of their party.
Politically, its a fascinating, if sickening, time to be alive. I think our country is in for some explosive politics. It's about time.
I am so not getting into another round concerning Nader.
I am so not getting into another round concerning Nader.
Politically, its a fascinating, if sickening, time to be alive. I think our country is in for some explosive politics. It's about time.
S in Mich | Email | Homepage | 05.23.04 - 2:33 am | #
"Interesting times" as the old Chinese curse went. You're right, the various portents say some heavy duty shit is gonna go down in the political world within the next decade. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if a third party did come up - though I'm not sure from what side, or perhaps the middle - though I doubt it'll be one of the current third-party dark horses (Reform, Green, Libertarian, etc.).
Interesting times, indeed...
I don't know about it coming from the middle. That's what the Dean phemonemon was - fiscally conservative/socially liberal - and we see what happened with that.
What I think will happen is a no-holds barred grudge match between the left and the right. The "middle" train has left the station.
In a 50/50 nation, that's some scary shit.
You don'rt have to bring up Nader, but somebody besides us needs to pay attention to this Terry McAuliffe shithead. Like Carville without the beauty.
"McGreevy (as is any governer during a recession) is unpopular in New Jersey right now so it's unlikely his getting any more unpopular will take the state for Bush.
(White Suburban) New Jersey's basically a Republican state that went for Gore in 2000 because of the culture war. (Rich Suburban) New Jerseyites hate taxes but they also hate fundamentalists."
Where do you get this shit from. You are obviously not from NJ as I am. NJ is a sure democratic state in 2004 as it was in 2000. McGreevey is a pretty good guy and is becoming more popular as the Catholic church attacks him. Property taxes are a huge problem here, but only because the poor and middle class are getting hit hard. The income tax was initallialy instituted to even out the school taxes, but once the politicians got their hands on the money, they kissed the school tax portion good bye and took it for other uses.
S in Mich - The fact that this has gone on for decades is not the problem, so much as that it has gone on SUCCESSFULLY for so long.
If you know this website, you know that lately it's been getting a lot of increased traffic, and it appears that at least some who are stopping by now are people who are suffering from cognitive dissonance. They BELIEVED all the lies, they didn't use their noodle, they bought the soundbites. Now that they're becoming disillusioned, it's not a bad thing to have a link to a site that actually dissects one of the many lies, and one that's being told RIGHT NOW. It doesn't hurt at all to call the liars out on their shit. Especially in a world where the lies get the soundbites, and the truth gets ignored, particularly by the media whores who know better, or SHOULD know better if they're even marginally competent.
If everyone "knew better" we wouldn't be in the pickle we're in. So, no, I don't think it's "boring", and calling it boring might discourage people who most need to read the link from actually reading it.
If Kerry actually said that, I'm sending him another $100. And Pelosi deserves some cash too. I'm paying for some rhetorical red meat for a change, and I want them to keep it up.
As far as I'm concerned, any system where a guy can actually become a billionaire doesn't tax enough the wealthiest. In a normal country, people simply don't become billionaire, the highest fortune remain in the 8-digits figures.
Of course, that's just leftist talk :P
And in many other countries, Jack Welch dsoesn't happen, because there are laws on wealth accumulation-especially when it's just you and not the company getting rich-and the disparoty between top and bottom.
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