I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Because Bush is the anti-Christ!
oh yeah, Frist.
You know what? Fuck the Pope. Fuck him right in the ear.
500,000 protest Bush's visit to Rome
Rome, Italy, Jun. 4 (UPI)
Wow.
PS Does anyone else think the Italian 'Peace' flags are really kinda cool?
Well, the Pope took down the Soviet Union, it's time to go after the next big evil.
All of us over here supporting (or not supporting) the mad dreams of a few.
Il Papa ist eine nutjob.
The Catholic Church forbids abortion and considers homosexual activity a sin.
Yeah, about that whole priests-raping-young-boys thing...
The Pope hates America because we let women in relative positions of power.
Factoid de Blonde: The News about Bush vs The Pope left out the part where the Pope brought in his finest exorcists and had the smirk wiped off Bush's face which is clearly, in terms of Catholicism, the mark of the anti-Christ. (unfortunately, the exorcist fell down a huge gilded flight of stairs afterwards) It's a little known fact about the facial smirk being related to the anti-christ, known mostly to Catholics.
You see, when Hitler was in power, you couldn't really see his smirk that much cause it was covered by his mustache... but it was there. He was another anti-christ. There were many anti-christs. When Catholics were in control of the Bible, they erased that sentence cause it would alarm too many people.
Some people think that the sign of the anti-christ is some sort of blotch on the forehead.. but that is not true.. it's the smirk. 'Blotch' and 'smirk' in Bible-ease are very similar and often mistaken, especially by radical fundamentalists.
This from the church that gave a guy a medal for inventing the neutron bomb.
Those priests weren't raping boys. They were baptising them with the Holy Spunk... er, Spirit.
Call it, "transemenstantiation"
what a sickening commentary from what should be the last refuge of reasonability in the world of religion.
Did you hear the audio clip? He sounds as if they have to fish him out of his oatmeal every morning.
Hamanan amgaha dei gloriahhhm aaaghaamla ventus vicdahhhmm mei superiorahmman...
"Yeah, about that whole priests-raping-young-boys thing..."
Well, actually many of us Jews who are in favor of gay marriages, etc., within our religion are wont to point out that the whole "man in position of authority having sex with a peripubescent male [hardly a young boy when you look at things through the lens of history] thing" is very different from what we generally consider to be homosexuality. The former is, for example, what was actually practiced and sanctioned in ancient Greece which was as divided about what we today would call "homosexuality" as we are today (read Plato's Symposium for a glimpse of the contraversy).
Of course, we Jews who raise this distinction do so because we believe what Torah prohibits (i.e. in Leviticus) is the whole "man in position of authority / peripubescent male thing", and that it does not at all prohibit homosexual relations between consenting adults.
So from the perspective of liberal Jews, by rejecting gay rights but de facto condoning pederasty and facultative homosexuality, the R.C. Church has it 100% backward - they should reject the pederasty/facultative homosexuality and accept gay rights!
I notice the Pontif doesn't mention the death penalty. I guess like Abu Ghraib, communion-gate goes right to the top.
Was walking by the TV on CNN this morning and saw Chimp sitting there and the commentator was saying something about stuttering, bumbling, shaky, unsteady, and weak.
Then they moved the camera to the pope.
I was like, "what's the difference".
Don't forget that the Pope spoke out loudly against the Iraq invasion, and he's also condemned the torture at Abu Ghraib.
Strangely, I've never heard a single wingnut express hatred for the Pope or call for his death, despite the fact that he is obviously a Saddam-loving, terrorist-coddling America-hater.
What about it, wingnuts? By your own definition, the Pope is traitor scum.
...what should be the last refuge of reasonability in the world of religion.
wastelandusa
Huh? There was one?
"Reason" and "religion" aren't two ideas I generally relate.
Ahganama totdus adamanaghhhhh ad majoriahhgghhh gloriaghghham maadah hannnnnnnaahhmmZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
"You know what? Fuck the Pope. Fuck him right in the ear.
agrajag."
Very constructive input.
Too many boring catechism classes when you were a youngster?
Spare us your unresolved anger issues and STFU.
"Reason" and "religion" aren't two ideas I generally relate.
Every action in the Universe is governed by an old white man with a long beard and without a face who sits on a throne is outer space where you can't see him with a telescope.
If this is in reference to the Pontifex Maximus's statement that the 3,000 lost on IX/XI was less important than Abu Ghraib, the guy is right. Think about it. It's that old "conquer a city but lose your soul" thing. It's the logic we used to describe Oily Soaring Eagle Ashcroft's attacks on the Bill of Rights (as opposed to attacks on our borders), as treasonous, as threatening to the "idea" (rather than the "person") of America.
We could suffer massive losses every day and still be the Land of the Free, or we could not suffer one and become a torture-using partially despotic oligarchy (as some would argue, in light of domestic prison "abuse", we indeed were).
And all this from a man who wears a dress!
But honestly, how can someone who has been separated from ordinary life for decades know fully about the choices people make? How can a man with his experience of living with women (essentially none) decide how they should live? And when does he preach againts the greed and the gluttony and the intolerance and the hatred that are also well and alive here as in elsewhere? Or don't these things matter?
The world would be better if you took the mistranslated oral history, fables and book of laws of a 4,000 year old nomadic tribe from the desert literally.
Look, we like to think of ourselves as regular Rigaults, but this is a perfect sentiment, and the attacks on the Pope over this from people we didn't hear complaining about the War Against Women are a little trolly.
Actually it's more like Kei is either Rigault or that chick in Aleksandr Nevsky who chopped up the priests like firewood and Yuri is Voltaire.
If everyone read the New Testament portion of the Bible word for word, which was originally handed down orally until about 80 years after Jesus' death and then transcribed into an Aramaic dialect and then translated into ancient Greek, then Latin, then Middle English and then hundreds of variants of Modern English, there wouldn't be any gay people anymore.
"You know what? Fuck the Pope. Fuck him right in the ear.
agrajag."
Very constructive input.
Too many boring catechism classes when you were a youngster?
Spare us your unresolved anger issues and STFU.
What's wrong with saying "fuck the pope"? I've never seen anyone chided for saying that about anyone else. So I'd have to say that it is you, SakesAlive, who has unresolved issues.
The pope heads up a church that sanctioned fucking boys in the name of the lord their god. I've interviewed some of those guys, and they were seriously screwed, in so many ways, by the church that they AND their parents trusted.
So, yeah, fuck the pope.
Can someone remind me of what the Catholic churches position on free will is? Isn't the reason why we were given free will so that we could choose between right or wrong? Criminalizing something like abortion doesn't make anyone more religious (more likely less), it just impedes God's gift of free will.
In the immortal words of Easy-E "Bitches ain't shit but hoes and tricks." That's why women should be at best semi-educated baby producing machines without any real power in society.
And watch out for those perfidious Jews.
Whoops, sorry for the double post!
BTW:
"The world would be better if you took the mistranslated oral history, fables and book of laws of a 4,000 year old nomadic tribe from the desert literally."
Neither the Pope nor mainstream Catholics take it literally. Remember, the Pope stated Darwin was right a few years back (and apologized for the treatment of Galileo).
People, people, people.
Yes, fuck the pope, except when he smacks down W.
Remember, the Pope stated Darwin was right a few years back (and apologized for the treatment of Galileo).
SakesAlive
Hard to believe preznit would stoop to meeting such a flip-flopper.
Fuck the Pope, then fuck SakesAlive.
Homosexual rights are self-centered demands? I guess if you look at it that way, all civil rights are self-centered.
So Fucking What? Is that all you've got?
Living in a gold-gilded marble castle and demanding to be treated like royalty or even god himself is just a wee bit self-centered in my book.
What a piece of self-centered shit the pope is.
Although it has taken literally hundreds of years for the Church to admit that the Earth revolves around the Sun, the Church firmly believes that God has personally annointed me as His spokesman on Earth. In fact, if you read any of Garry Wills' articles in the New York Review over the past three years, you'll understand that I've changed cannonical law. Now, not only is the Church infallible, but I am infallible.
Also, I firmly believe in superstitions from the dark ages, such as stigmata, curses, demonic possession, miracles in the form of Jesus appearing in nacho chips and to insane peasant girls at Fatima and any number of other backwards, anti-modern things.
Remember, the Pope stated Darwin was right a few years back (and apologized for the treatment of Galileo).
Bwhahahahahaha! Oh...too funny.
You'll notice that the pope didn't slam the rights of pedophilic priests. Gotta stand up for his home boys...
"What a piece of self-centered shit the pope is."
Geez, people. Get a grip!
Have you actually read any of his published literature? He's a man of peace, truly.
Hard to handle with so much religious antipathy, I know.
Too many boring catechism classes when you were a youngster?
Spare us your unresolved anger issues and STFU.
Nah, just too much obnoxious moralizing and people in positions of authority telling me to STFU.
Oh yeah, and a boatload of priests who couldn't explain why my Muslim dad wouldn't go to Hell, according to their teachings.
Among other things.
Incidentally, what do you think makes a curse word less bad when you put it into an acronym? Cause that's about the only difference in attitude between your post and mine.
He's a man of peace, truly.
Since when do men of peace beatify other popes who look the other way when Jews are being gassed?
he hates america because we allow our priests to fuck boys in the ass. oh wait, he approves of that. damned if i know why he hates this great nation.
What can I possibly add except a resounding "OY!"
Again: the terribly offensive thing was not any of the truly offensive things, it was the IX/XI/Ghraib comparison, which statement is unassailable, and you guys are using Naderite logic to overlook this boon.
Have you actually read any of his published literature? He's a man of peace, truly.
I believe he has never personally committed acts of violence, Sakes, but that doesn't absolve him of the violence his subordinates engaged in, the violence he condoned by his silence, and the violence he failed to speak out against loudly enough.
Read up on Rwanda. Read up on Cardinal Bernard Law and his fancy new position in Rome.
I've got a soft spot for the guy, too, no doubt he's done much good with his life. But in a job like his, you're judged not on what you did but on what you failed to prevent others from doing. In a job like his, where he has an enormous pulpit, every second he does not use it to promote the general welfare and the specific prevention of abuses from Africa to China to the US of A, is a wasted second.
Maybe that's unfair of me to say. I don't know. All I know is the art collection in the Vatican, if sold, would feed a lot of the poor and meek he likes to talk so much about.
A.
Oh, well, if he's a man of peace, then that's all I care about...
Oh wait. No, I still care about the fact that he thinks women are second-class citizens, that feti are more important than living beings, that little boys who have been raped in the ass should be branded liars for the Good of the Church, and that his uninformed opinions hold sway over anything more than whether it's time to feed the Vatican cat.
"Incidentally, what do you think makes a curse word less bad when you put it into an acronym? Cause that's about the only difference in attitude between your post and mine."
There's an element of decorum and respect, I suppose, for those who may not necessarily want to see the "f" word spelled out in what, despite the relative anonymity of this message board, is still something of a public forum.
And I guess my old-fashioned principles were a tad offended at your seeming utter lack of respect for said forum.
Nothwithstanding that your pop being Muslim apparantly caused some perplexion and all...
I watch plenty of Cadfael, and as even a casual viewer knows, Abortion is out, but love is in.
Sir Derek Jacoby for Pope! Why settle for a .500 hitter when we have a man whose batted 1.000 for years?
They have a cat in the Vatican? I thought that cats were incubi?
I'm with the "fuck the pope" contingent.
I used to feel some respect for the man - even went to a papal mass once, though I was a Lutheran (now I'm an atheist). But I came to realize that the pope is just another human leading a giant, self-important pack of celibate (pederasty notwithstanding), childless males telling the rest of us how to handle relationships, sex, reproduction, and parenting. So fuck him and the church he rode in on.
On the other hand, unlike our brave leader, he's consistent, and pretty honest. However, "better than Bush" is a very low standard.
Derek Jacobi rules.
Enraged Water Heater is right: At least the pope isn't as bad as Saddam.
Nothwithstanding that your pop being Muslim apparantly caused some perplexion and all...
apparently
perplexity
(notwithstanding)
And the Pope needs to go. Maybe the next one will be more aware of the beliefs of his flock.
heh. Gotta keep those dollarz flowing.
The Pope is only a mild busybody compared to those few US Bishops who are using their office to persecute Democrats.
Scorpio
Eccentricity
There's an element of decorum and respect, I suppose, for those who may not necessarily want to see the "f" word spelled out in what, despite the relative anonymity of this message board, is still something of a public forum.
Don't hang out much here, huh?
Snicker.
Look, it is a victory for Bush if this thread is just a "let's hate the old bastard" thread, because the thing that brough this up was not the abortion position that wasn't enough to warrant a post, it wasn't the Rwanda position that wasn't important enough to warrant a post, it's the fact that even this historical pillar of reactioin is against Bush!
My problem with the Pope is that he is socially reactionary and ignores the misery (much as Mother Theresa did) that his stance on birth control and abortion creates, by exacerbating overpopulation.
Not to mention the Catholic Church's heirarchy systematically covering up pedophillia for decades, if not centuries.
The Pope may be on the right side of Halliburton's war of conquest in Iraq, but his statments about abortion and homosexuality put him firmly in the camp of the enemies of human freedom.
Fellow Eschatonians... The Pope is just a man, and like many men, he is wrong about a great many things. But in this case, he's one of the few world leaders to really put the smack down upon the Shrub. Yes, the Catholic Church, and this Pope personally, have done some egerious things... but reward good behaviour, remember? Come on, he's just given the perfect ammunition with which to fire upon all those 'Catholics' who try and deny Kerry et all Communion. Eat Papal Doctrine, scum!
It's just a shame he hasn't retained his health, so we could have got some good direct sampled smackery from him, instead of "mumble mumble"...
"I appreciate the Pope. He's a good leader. He's doing a fabulous job. There's some people think a Polish guy can't be a religious leader. Well, they're wrong because he's leading. And that's what leadership is about. Thank you. Good job, Pope. Good job.
In a just world, Gary would be the Pope.
(and that's not to say that I like the comments which Atrios links too... but think about it: we can get the Religious Catholic Right to chose between the Pope or Bush over foriegn policy... but they can't have both of them now... bua ha ha)
This will make you puke:
Chimperor at the Vatican today:
Seated next to the pope, Bush promised his nation would work for "human liberty and human dignity," without making any reference to Iraq. He presented the pontiff with the presidential medal of freedom, America's highest civilian award, calling him "a devoted servant of God."
The president and his wife Laura laid a green wreath at the Ardeatine Cave Memorial, where Nazi occupiers massacred 335 Italian citizens in 1944. Bush, alone, approached the wreath, straightened its blue ribbon and bowed his head as a bugler played.
Blechhh!!!! What about the funerals of the 800 + American soldiers Dumbass? You won't attend those, will you? Or how about showing some of your faux compassion for all the Iraqi civilians that have been killed because of your orders?
Human dignity my ass. We'll get dignity back when we show you the door on November 2, 2004.
The Pope may be on the right side of Halliburton's war of conquest in Iraq, but his statments about abortion and homosexuality put him firmly in the camp of the enemies of human freedom.
Look, let's face it. The CC hierarchy has NEVER been a proponent of human rights, except when it was in its own best interest to do so.
Hardly a plus.
There are some human, wonderful priests out there. Realists, as it were.
And then there are the others.
What is Laura Bush wearing for her audience with the Pope? Click homepage to see.
Caption Contest?
Sorry...Just because the pope smacks down W doesn't change my mind about him. I'm just not a one-issue gal, I guess.
If the pope makes Catholics think twice about voting for Bush, well, whatever. The fact is, he makes people think twice about a lot of stuff, and not in a good way. So I can't jump on this bandwagon.
Smacking Bush shouldn't be a litmus test for whether someone is a good guy. If Bill O'Reilly turned on Bush tomorrow, would that make his hateful rhetoric of the past OK?
Same-sex marriage:
Pope: No Bush: No
Abortion:
Pope: No Bush: No
War On Terror:
Pope: No Bush: Yes
Contraception over Abstinence
Pope: No Bush: No
Stem Cell Research:
Pope: No Bush: No
Sodomizing young boys/Iraqi prisoners:
Pope: Yes Bush: Yes
Chimperor at the Vatican today
NewsHour showed the footage, and you should have seen the look (of disgust) on Chimpy's face while looking at the Pope. (If not disgust, then he looked like he had eaten something that didn't agree with him.)
No smile. No graceful representation. No diplomacy.
Look, let's face it. The CC hierarchy has NEVER been a proponent of human rights, except when it was in its own best interest to do so.
The CC is a contradiction. Gay Rights and Womens Rights they are wrong on, but at least the Pope did give Chimpy the red ass today over the IRaq war and Abu Gharib.
What is Laura wearing? 2nd attempt
Ye festering den of fucking Naderites, did any of you honestly expect the Pope to be some kind of long-haired ISM Marxist? Why oh why is there this bullshit litmus test, cutting off massively powerful public figures because they lack sufficient revolutionary consciousness? This is tiring, these anarko-teens with coordinated black clothing rejecting reasonable support because it isn't unreasonably meeting every one of their little criteria.
The Pope, the motherfucking Pope, is on your side if only in this one fight and all you can say is "fuck you".
Why should I listen to a silly old man who lives thousands of miles away, who hasn't lived in the real world for decades, and whose position and thoughts come down from the medieval ages.
Why should I listen to him when I can think for myself.
We're not asking for you to "change your mind" about the guy, but on this one issue you could have his support and it's apparently more important to mock him.
...the Pope did give Chimpy the red ass today over the IRaq war and Abu Gharib.
Yes, because it was in his best interest anf that of the Church.
Europeans, including Italians, were against the war.
Gee, what a brave position. He really put his neck out on that one.
My day is not complete without a couple o' inches of Atrios's joint in my mouth
Kei, why the fuck do we need/want his support?
Kerry will win w/o his *endorsement* or whatever.
Disagree with the Pope's teachings if you will, but it's rather mean to poke fun at his disabilities.
As for the US child sex abuse scandal, I agree he could have done more to deal with it in-house and publicly condemn it, but he didn't by any means endorse it.
As for being out of touch with real life, he grew up poor, worked as an actor and heavy laborer, and survived the Nazi occupation. As a bishop he made a point of interacting with ordinary people. Granted it's not much of a standard to exceed, but for a pope he was remarkably in-touch until his illness isolated him more and more.
Yes, I deeply disagree with him on issues such as birth control, abortion, homosexuality and women's place in the Church, but it doesn't hurt to give him credit for the good he's done, such as fostering interfaith tolerance, standing up for workers' rights and condemning Georgie's little wars.
BTW, as a matter of policy the Church is extremely skeptical of stigmata, Marian visitations, and the like. It seldom condemns personal belief in them, but it's extremely unlikely to give official endorsement.
What is Laura wearing - answer.
Ah, so --
Wash Times explains: "Men should wear dark suits and dark shoes," says a White House memo. "Women should wear dark skirts — below the knee — covered legs, and closed-toe shoes. Women meeting the Pope are required to wear a veil."
If lady scribes don't own a veil, one will be provided by a White House advance team.
The Chimperor's expression in the background is priceless.
Yes, because it was in his best interest anf that of the Church.
Europeans, including Italians, were against the war.
Gee, what a brave position. He really put his neck out on that one.
pie
I agree with you. I'm just pointing out that the War Criminal (nee President) didn't get glowing support from the church.
It seldom condemns personal belief in them, but it's extremely unlikely to give official endorsement.
Think about what you just said.
Laura was wearing a veil, out of respect. However, it was a thin veil, because all Bush actions are thinly veiled.
I wonder if Bush asked the Pontiff, "Have you read those Left Behind books? Now those are pageturners, gospel truth!"
A few thoughts from the godless apostate great great gandson of a Mormon prophet:
The CC gets a bad rap because the current pope, today's remarks notwithstanding, is such a vile reactionary. There have been many Catholic officials and laypeople who've done tremendous things.
Where are the Dorthy Days, the Berrigans, the Sancuary Movement and liberation theology leaders, today?
I vote Fuck the Pope.
But only because I am still pissed about the Crusades.
Well, let's see - Mel Gibson's father thinks that the Pope is the AntiChrist for preaching tolerance of other religions and freedom of consicience, to the point of attending interfaith services and such - with even *gasp* Muslims - that's why the Sedevancantists call him "that Koran-kisser", because he did. And gee, the copy of the Catechism I have, says the same sort of things, which is why the Gibsons and their friends - some of whom I know personally - want to roll the clock back to a time that never was, even at the most repressive and reactionary eras.
About 15 years ago there was a serious freak-out among the "Conservative Catholic" crew, who didn't know what to do when the Pope denounced capitalism as soul-destroying and as destructive to the rights of workers as Stalinism. After a flurry of indignant outrage (who does he think he is? We defeated communism for him, how dare he compare us to those godless soviets?) the folks like Buckley and Scalia decided as Buckley had done over contraception long ago and Scalia has done since over the death penalty, that they could ignore him on anything they didn't like, while safely calling everyone else "cafeteria Catholics."
As a member of VOTF in the Archdiocese of Boston, who has written letters to newspapers and while other journals were allowing the boston heirarchy to pass on their claims of misguided but ethical failure,
tore them apart by their own theological assertions, it would be hard to find anyone not physically a victim more angry and betrayed than us up here. But you make fools of yourselves when you simply and uninformedly mock simplistic parodies of what you *think* Catholicism teaches or the Pope has said - as much as if I were to assert that all atheists are natural Rethuglicans, because not believing in an afterlife means you think you should grab it all, now, and screw everyone else, and if you deny it you're lying. (I however wouldn't, because having met real atheists and engaged in serious dialogue with them, I know that that stereotype is completely false.)
In fact, there is little that you say against Christianity or Catholicism specifically, that could not be charged as well of football (both sorts.) Deaths, rapes, cultures of enablement, cultures of hate and sexism - down with those yobbos who sing the Engineers' Song! Fuck the ballworshippers!
Vatican City meets New Vatican City.
Did one of the Seven Seals open today?
NewsHour showed the footage, and you should have seen the look (of disgust) on Chimpy's face while looking at the Pope. (If not disgust, then he looked like he had eaten something that didn't agree with him.)
No smile. No graceful representation. No diplomacy.
pie
Well, Chimpy is a War Criminal (nee President), so he belongs to an elite that is detested by the Pope.
That was rhetorical. I know Dorothy Day is dead.
I'm just pointing out that the War Criminal (nee President) didn't get glowing support from the church.
Wouldn't people be slightly alarmed if the Pope condoned war?
Yes, he could have said nothing, but that would have been troubling, too.
What have the fundies been saying from their pulpits?
I think Bush was making a face because nothing smells worse than a dying priest.
So's her work in a metaphoric sense.
I didn't say the Pope was a good guy... But I am a European Liberal... and what perhaps you peeps are missing is that whilst your SCLM are running stories like Atrios links to, of "Pope Reactionary Old Bigot, Official", here in Europe everyone is seeing on BBC and elsewhere the Pope giving Shrubya a kicking over human rights abuses and Iraq, and the demonstrations on the streets of Rome. Other news stories: France and Germany use D-Day visit to bend Bush's arms over UN Resolution on Iraqi Sovreignity ("Oui, we weel geef yoo de smiling pictures for zos plebs back 'ome, if you, 'ow yoo say, kizz our asses over at ze UN")... Blair tries to tone down Iraqi rhetoric fearing EU Election melt down (The leaks about UK troops leaving before US troops perhaps will is part of that...) Right now, Bush doesn't have a friend in Europe. And the fact that the Pope is one of them, even if he is a reactionary old bigot, makes me laugh. And then I remember people like Andy Sullivan, getting shafted by the Papal Rod on homosexuality, and desperately reaching for that Grand Old Lubricant of war-whoring, only to get righteously Pope-slapped again instead... and I laugh and laugh and laugh until I hurt.
Try and view it from the wider context: Even the absolute head of a gay hatin' woman controlin' faith flips off the Shrub! The reason you've got articles like Atrios links to is to try and hide that realisation from Bush's base... To try and say "The Pope shares your knuckle-dragging ideas" It's wanker-ing up the Pope's image for consumption back home. And he is a wanker... but don't forget, the stuff quoted above of GWB's "statesmanship" (*guffaw*), which shows who was really on his knees for some Benedictine-bukkake this time. For once, the Catholic Church is fucking the right people. And I for one am enjoying it immensly.
At least Bush didn't bring Ashcroft so he could sing one of his songs.
I like it when the Pontiff addresses the throng in St. Peter's Square and the women show their tits to get blessings.
Holy Mother Church. Still offering 11th century solutions to 21st century problems. (Oh, in all fairness there was a ray of hopr with John XXIII, but that's long gone.
cheney_usa - Think you may be thinking of Lafayette Square in New Orleons during Mardi Gras.
I did not know the Pope went to Mardi Gras.
The Pope is with the terrorist!
I knew it, I knew it!
Why does the pope hate america?
in fact, I happened to be listening to O'Reilly today for a few minutes (until the puke factor rose to the point of being unbearable) and O'Reilly was bemoaning the fact that the *Pope* would never agree to talk to the likes of *HIM* (i.e., O'Reilly). O'Reilly then went through a number of questions that he would ask the Pope if he could have a meeting with him. But of course that wouldn't be possible, according to O'Reilly, and this was all put up as a foil as to what Bush said and did with the Pope today, and of course O'Reilly deconstructed every angle of Bush's intentions and actions.
He sounded quite arrogant, if you figure that he was whining about not having access to what is supposedly God's representative on Earth, but then again, when does he not sound arrogant.
All in all, I came away from the experience with this thought: I don't like the Pope OR O'Reilly.
O'Reilly reminds me of Pat Buchanan in the way he take personal affront to every real or imagined--and mostly imagined--slight or jab thrown his way. and then he waxes with dripping derision about how *so and so* would never be friends with *him*. It's the tough on-the-waterfront sort of guy coming from poverty routine, sort of a wallowing in one's own misfortune of being borne in an underclass kind of rhetoric that he effuses in his speech. I have no idea if it is an affectation in O'Reilly's case. It makes him come across as being thin-skinned, though it probably gains him the loyalty of many a trailer-park republican who seems himself in O'Reilly as a consequence of that discourse.
I like it when the Pontiff addresses the throng in St. Peter's Square and the women show their tits to get blessings.
cheney_usa'
If there's ever a college course dedicated to the value of sheer gratuity in humor, this remark should form the basis for it!
That said, I'll get back to ass-fucking my mother.
The pope is everywhere in spirit.
I can just picture the conversation today between GWB and the Pope:
GWB: God talks to me and tells me what to do. He thinks I am doing a good job.
Pope: That's funny, God just told me this morning he think you are a fucking clueless drunken moron.
And I guess my old-fashioned principles were a tad offended at your seeming utter lack of respect for said forum.
You know, it's funny... i've been posting on this "forum" for a good 2 years now... and I don't recall ever seeing you hereabouts.
So far as I'm concerned, after a good half a thousand at least decently witty comments, and a good dozen-odd 2000 word disertations on the issues of the day, I'm more than justified in using this forum to air my "unresolved personal issues."
Too many boring catechism classes when you were a youngster?
Oh yeah, I forgot to add... I did great in CCD. I loved CCD. My teachers all said I ought to be a priest.
The real problem came when I actually went around trying to apply religous teachings to real life.
...
You know, I could go on and on about my problems with Catholicism and moralizing forumites... but instead I'll just say that why in the name of God, Gods, or the rationally derived moral system of your choice should we put up with someone using their position of authority to feed into something that began as a bald-faced attempt to interfere in the workings of our democracy in order to prop up a man no better than a would-be tin-pot dictator?
As far as the Pope's disabilities... you know, hey, he's old, and that's a shame. But you know, my Grandpa got old, after his own tough-ass life in Pakistan, and you know what he did? He retired, and took it easy. And he never took a job that told people to trust in the Magic Sky Buddy instead of learning to face the real world to begin with.
Well, that felt good, but as I imagine I've angered just about everybody hereabouts I could manage to anger, I think perhaps I shall move on.
Washington Times editorialist commenting on George Soros support of Democratic causes using his personal wealth:
BLANKLEY: When a man is worth this kind of money, and he's spending it on trying to influence the American public in an election, trying to buy the election, he's not going to, we have a right to know what kind of an unscrupulous man he is.
[...]
BLANKLEY: He's buying influence all over the world. He's a robber baron, he's a pirate capitalist, and he's a reckless man.
Ah...Tony. What would you say if we substituted the name Soros with that of Richard Scaife?
You've got the wingnuts on the run Atrios.
Kaus - How's your goat doing?
Remember when Reagan fell asleep while the Pope was talking?
A buncha years back, the Pope decided to get his act together and take it on the road...with the result that he ended up cruising my 'hood Snoop Dogg-style in his Popemobile (with his mind on his money and his money on his mind). I went out to see the old fraud, and got a nice little Vatican flag for my trouble...as well as whatever scattershot benedictions might've splattered me like so much Papal ejaculate.
A friend of mine yelled, "Where's that five bucks you borrowed from me, you son of a bitch?"
All the same, he DID come out against the war...rather eloquently, in fact. It's not his fault that there's scarcely a Catholic in America who gives a fuck what he thinks.
Echidnie,
How can a man with his experience of living with women (essentially none) decide how they should live?
Because he's a guy. We get to do that. Haven't you been paying attention to the past couple millineum?
I do think it's kind of humorous that the pope gave Bush hell about the prisoner abuse and the Iraq war, but is apparently on the team concerning gay marriage and abortion. Pick a side, John Paul George, you'll confuse the little peckerhead.
It's not his fault that there's scarcely a Catholic in America who gives a fuck what he thinks.
Philalethes
I don't know Philalethes, my mom still talks about the audience my dad had with the pope about 60 years ago and he blessed a bunch of religous stuff my dad brought with him.
(and apologized for the treatment of Galileo).
SakesAlive | Email | Homepage | 06.04.04 - 6:21 pm | #
Yeah, and it only took nearly 500 years to do so. I'm sure Galileo appreciates it. Oh, wait...he's been dead since the Renneisance. Right.
Backslider - Well he did apologize to the Jews and it only took 40 years, so they are getting better.
BTW, in case anyone's going to be offended by phrases like "Papal ejaculate"...well, you're probably right.
But even though I'm someone who strongly defends the right to a religious worldview--and who views smug, superior atheism with as little tolerance as smug, superior religiosity-- I nonetheless reserve the right to blow off a little steam vis a vis the stench of hypocrisy that hangs around the Catholic priesthood almost as cloyingly as the smell of pre-teen genitalia.
Have you actually read any of his published literature? He's a man of peace, truly.
SakesAlive
Uh, yeah, have you read any of his press releases in the past several years? Pretty much every one of them have to do with attacking homosexuals. So I guess he is a man of peace if you fit into his small-minded ideals.
The pope is a man who casts stones while living in a large, gold-gilded glass house.
Ah...Tony. What would you say if we substituted the name Soros with that of Richard Scaife?
Doug
My example on the thread below was Rupert Murdoch, but Scaife will do nicely.
Okay, so which do they want? Do they want to harp on Kerry for not being Catholic enough, or do they want to harp on Bush for not being Catholic enough? (okay okay, so he's a Baptist, strawman I tap out)
A real Pontiff would not be hanging with a shitheel like Bush.
Look, it is a victory for Bush if this thread is just a "let's hate the old bastard" thread, because the thing that brough this up was not the abortion position that wasn't enough to warrant a post, it wasn't the Rwanda position that wasn't important enough to warrant a post, it's the fact that even this historical pillar of reactioin is against Bush!
kei & yuri
I got you KY, and I appreciate the sentiment, but in this case I can't go along with "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" logic. The pope has caused too much pain and heartache for gays and lesbians. Well, except for the ones that rape young boys and work for him.
I don't know Philalethes, my mom still talks about the audience my dad had with the pope about 60 years ago and he blessed a bunch of religous stuff my dad brought with him.
Blessing religious stuff...I love that!
"I've got this crucifix, your Holiness. Would you mind blessing it?"
Honestly, any Catholic who's anti-abortion AND anti-war AND anti-death penalty is OK with me. I don't want everyone to agree with me about every last thing...I just want them to value life consistently, instead of being anti-sex and pro-murder, which seems like the worst of all possible philosophies to have.
That pope! Sigh. I have one question for you guys & gals. Here in Europe not much notice is paid to what the pope says, although he has his groupies, but what is the situation in the US? Do protestants and/or catholics in your country care what the holy shaker thinks?
Ya know, I remember when the Pope came to America and rode around in his Popemobile. He had that sneeze-shield in front of him, y'all remember? I kept thinking if the blessings he was throwing out could get through the shield. Then I wonder if the dude was seriously worried about getting shot again - and possibly going to HEAVEN - man, what chance did the rest of us have?
Apart from the Catholic hierarchy and the Vatican standard line...I could frankly care less about the Pope. See, I'm an agnostic, and therefor, all I see is what appears to be a rather nice if sheltered old dude in a tacky outfit. Whether he's on our side as per the Iraq war or not really doesn't matter. Me, I'm looking forward to the day when such cats as him have no sway over the public conscious.
And if anyone...ANYONE...thinks Bush gives two shits what the head of the Catholic Church thinks about anything, man, are you on some bad buttermilk. If Bush's GAWD talk is for real, he's a Southern Pentacostal, and they think the Pope is a couple steps down from the anti-Christ.
I don't believe Bush was late because of an extended meeting with 'Italian President Carlo Azeglio Ciampi'. You think Ciampi is going to natter on with Bush while the Pope is waiting? I think Bush was late for the first meeting (probably because of some brewing shitstorm in the US) but didn't want to say so. So he just lied about a meeting 'running long'.
Again, I'm willing to respect Catholics to the extent that they respect what I consider to be the proper core of all religions: compassion.
Whether the Pope thinks gays are going to Hell or not...that's out of my control. I disagree strongly, of course, but I can't tell him what to think.
The really noteworthy thing, to me, is that the Pope's condemnation of the war was treated by so many American Catholics as something to pass over in embarassed silence...as though he'd been caught drooling in public.
I don't expect the Pope to agree with me. But I do expect Catholics to agree with him, or stop calling themselves Catholics.
Uh, yeah, have you read any of his press releases in the past several years?
Probably more than you have.
Pretty much every one of them have to do with attacking homosexuals.
No, in fact, they haven't.
Even if you count the ones condemning the sexual abuse at issue in the scandal in the US as "attacking homosexuals".
The ones that get the most media attention in the US, of course, are the ones that relate most to controversial political issues in the US national dialogue.
Do protestants and/or catholics in your country care what the holy shaker thinks?
I think that Protestants, on the whole, are not inclined to listen much to the Pope. In fact, I think that's why they're called "Protestants."
pie,
Maybe I didn't express myself clearly (late Friday).
Believing in the miraculous doesn't mean buying every specific claim. Like a person can be open to the possible existence of ESP or extraterrestrials without blindly believing a particular psychic's or alleged alien abductee's claims.
If a Catholic believes that Mary visited Fatima or Lourdes (as the Pope personally seems to), the Church won't condemn them. But it doesn't compel any individual Catholic to believe in such visits.
As for stigmata, the Church may investigate a person's claims, but I don't know of any modern instance where it has certified them. Usually belief develops over a long time after someone's death, like with Francis of Assisi.
I really just meant the comment as an informational aside.
Of course, that doesn't mean I didn't appreciate Fr. Guido Sarducci's gibe that two of Mother Seton's three miracles were card tricks. Even when I was a (mostly) good practicing Catholic, I confess to a delight in irreverent humor.
The really noteworthy thing, to me, is that the Pope's condemnation of the war was treated by so many American Catholics as something to pass over in embarassed silence...as though he'd been caught drooling in public.
Most of the Catholics I know heartily agreed with it.
Then again, the Catholics I know are cool.
I don't expect the Pope to agree with me. But I do expect Catholics to agree with him, or stop calling themselves Catholics.
You may expect that, but Catholic doctrine, generally, does not. There is a limited subset of things you are required to believe to be Catholic, and the Pope's views on the application of doctrine to a particular real-world factual circumstance usually isn't one of them.
cmdicely, the CC has no defense against its cover-up and all-round mishandling of the abuse issue.
And, frankly, its birth-control and anti-abortion *leanings* are definitely influencing the flock.
Do it or don't.
Just don't tell me I can't. And please, lay off the GUILT trip.
Men.
I think that Protestants, on the whole, are not inclined to listen much to the Pope. In fact, I think that's why they're called "Protestants."
Philalethes, yes I know. But I just wondered if Bush's visit would cause some resonance in the US outside the catholic sphere.
OT: Negroponte replaced.
If confirmed by the Senate, as seems virtually certain, Danforth will succeed the current U.N. ambassador, John Negroponte, who will be moving to Iraq as Bush's ambassador to the new government there this summer.
At least Bush didn't bring Ashcroft so he could sing one of his songs.
cheney_usa
Yeah, but he probably gave him a Singing Senator's CD.
In his latest blunt assessment of U.S. society, Pope John Paul II on Friday denounced the acceptance of abortion and same-sex unions as "self-centered demands" erroneously depicted as human rights.
The pontiff said that "in the face of such erroneous yet pervasive thinking," visiting U.S. bishops should stress to congregations "their special responsibility for evangelizing culture and promoting Christian values in society and public life."
In his latest blunt assessment of U.S. society, Grand Mullah Abdullah of Iran denounced the acceptance of abortion and same-sex unions as "self-centered demands" erroneously depicted as human rights.
The Islamic cleric said that "in the face of such erroneous yet pervasive thinking," American Muslim clerics should stress to local brotherhoods of Allah "their special responsibility for evangelizing culture and promoting Islamic values in society and public life."
Ye festering den of fucking Naderites...etc.
Wow. Way to be incredibly mistaken about who and what you're talking about. Good job.
Most of the Catholics I know heartily agreed with it.
Then again, the Catholics I know are cool.
I'm speaking mainly of those Catholics who have public forums, and those who I got into arguments with on discussion boards.
Hell, EVERYONE I know--of whatever race, creed, or color--was against the war.
You may expect that, but Catholic doctrine, generally, does not. There is a limited subset of things you are required to believe to be Catholic, and the Pope's views on the application of doctrine to a particular real-world factual circumstance usually isn't one of them.
Look, as I see it...when you're talking about the ethics of taking lives, there is nothing more crucial for a religion to take a consistent stand on.
What could possibly be more important than that?
To feel free, as a Catholic, to come to one's own conclusions on matters of life and death is to stand in a problematic relationship with the religion itself. One can either ignore the Pope's anti-war stance and support Bush jubilantly, or one can decide that one's conscience cannot accept the Church's strictures on birth control or gay rights (for instance). But either way, when you deviate from the Church on matters of life and death, you are that much less a Catholic, having either diminished yourself in regards to the Church, or diminished the Church in regards to yourself.
To paraphrase the essayist Marilynne Robinson, "Why not call yourselves Manicheans or Zoroastrians, and not follow THOSE teachings?"
I'm not attacking you, or Catholics, mind you. But you can't blame people for being impatient, sometimes.
Look, the Pope is the Antichrist. Not just this Pope -- every reigning Pope is the Antichrist. The true meaning of "Antichrist" is not "against Christ", but "in place of Christ." The Roman Catholic Church teaches that the Pope rules on this planet in place of Jesus Christ. If you study Biblical prophecy and the Book of Revelation, it becomes quite obvious that the Pope is the Antichrist.
Have you ever heard of Gematria? Gematria was quite popular in ancient times. It involves assigning numerical values to letters, then adding up the numerical values of the letters of a name. There are, of course, many schemes for assigning these numerical values. Consider the following --
On ceremonial occasions, the Pope wears a crown which is inscribed VICARIVS FILII DEI. That is Latin for Vicar of the Son of God. For letters which are part of the Roman numeral system, assign the appropriate value; otherwise, assign zero. What do you get?
V = 5
I = 1
C = 100
A = 0
R = 0
I = 1
V = 5
S = 0
F = 0
I = 1
L = 50
I = 1
I = 1
D = 500
E = 0
I = 1
Add these numbers up and you get 666. I rest my case.
Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.
Revelation 13:18.
well, some of us believe in some stuff that some of us don't believe in, but gee whiz, don't let a little thing like that come between us in our united front of 'irrational bush hatred'! preach it, teach it, amen.
i too have followed great masters that others have considered loony tunes. and/or followed great masters that i later figured out were loony tunes. now i pretty much follow myself, although i try to stay humble and openminded. "by their works ye shall know them", some guy said once. if they're interested in the universal cessation of suffering - they might, perhaps, be worth a bowl of rice.
IMOHO.
To feel free, as a Catholic, to come to one's own conclusions on matters of life and death is to stand in a problematic relationship with the religion itself. One can either ignore the Pope's anti-war stance and support Bush jubilantly, or one can decide that one's conscience cannot accept the Church's strictures on birth control or gay rights (for instance). But either way, when you deviate from the Church on matters of life and death, you are that much less a Catholic, having either diminished yourself in regards to the Church, or diminished the Church in regards to yourself.
To feel free, as a Muslim, to come to one's own conclusions on matters of life and death is to stand in a problematic relationship with the religion itself. One can either ignore Grand Mullah Abdullah's anti-Israel stance and support Bush jubilantly, or one can decide that one's conscience cannot accept the Koran's strictures on birth control or gay rights (for instance). But either way, when you deviate from the Koran on matters of life and death, you are that much less a Muslim, having either diminished yourself in regards to the Prophet, or diminished the Prophet in regards to yourself.
I respect the pope greatly, but I disagreed mightily with his screed against homosexuality. However, I'm not about to say "fuck the pope" since he's entitled to that view. In fact, I expect him to, since he's supposed to uphold the Catholic faith. It's regrettable that the CC is still behind in this regard, but it has made much progress in the last century. John Paul II has done many good works in his life as well. Many guys could have done a whole lot worse than he, as pope.
You know what? Fuck the pope. Fuck him. Fuck him right in the ear.
Oh, wait. Did someone already say that? Sorry.
the pope smokes dope
For once, the Catholic Church is fucking the right people.
This is exactly what is wrong with the church. It is always fucking somebody, isn't it? And now that it is screwing Bush, does that mean it isn't screwing the rest of us anymore?
No, it just means it has just added someone else to its list.
If the church didn't have so much influence over American society and laws, I wouldn't give a rat's ass what it or other Catholics believe. But it isn't satisfied with ruling over its own flock; it has to try to rule everyone's life.
It's so ridiculous for Catholics, or any religious people, to pretend that atheists are making it tough for them. It has always been the god-folk making life tough for everyone else.
Believe what you want, but leave the nonbelievers alone. What is so goddam hard about that?
If only the Catholic Church would follow that mantra, the world would be a better place.
And K&Y, talk about litmus tests! Just because the pope slams Bush, we should appreciate him? That's your litmus test, and it sucks.
"They have a cat in the Vatican?" Why not? There's a book called "Cathedral Cats," and I believe there are paintings of various Princes of the Church with their felines. Cats often sleep in mosques,and at least one Sephardic synagogue that I know of. Maybe there's something about cats that appeals to members of the clergy. Or maybe the worship of Bastet has never really died out...
You know what? Fuck the pope. Fuck him. Fuck him right in the ear.
Religion was fine 25 and 30 years ago when it seemed to be on the wane. But now it just seems to me to be a bit too dangerous to "respect."
From 9/11 to the Catholic Church's responsibility for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people in Africa from AIDs to Israel's treatment of the Palestinians to the threat Evangelical Protestants pose to the Constitution (and to the teaching of biology), I think that perhaps we Americans respect religion a bit too much.
Except for Islam, it doesn't seem that anybody's willing to call a spade a spade and that's allowing the will to power inherent in a lot of religious people to threaten American culture itself.
I think we have to call "creation science" and the Catholic church's opposition to homosexual marriage for what they are.
Add these numbers up and you get 666. I rest my case.
With logic like that, you're certain to impress everyone sharing the bong.
Your point, SWR?
Personally, if I have a problem with a given dogma, I'll seek another...one that doesn't do violence to my concept of justice.
What good is a religion that offends my sense of justice?
I'm not complaining about Catholicism because people are "stupid" for believing in "Magical Cloud Friends." I'm not that much of an asshole...or at least, I try not to be. I'm suggesting, ultimately, that the choice for Catholics is between reforming the faith to the point that it loses its unique identity, which is problematic; or subjugating conscience to injustice, which is problematic. To wish the Catholic Church to change is to wish it not to be the Catholic Church.
That seems like a simple statement of fact to me. Beyond that, I make no distinction between Catholics and non-Catholics, except so far as they understand the value of compassion and seek to alleviate rather than increase suffering.
Fuck the pope -- in both ears.
Your point, SWR?
Catholicism is a cult. Call it that.
Me, I'm looking forward to the day when such cats as him have no sway over the public conscious.
Ditto to the 10th power.
SWR,
What are you saying? Repeal the 1st amendment?
Beyond that, I make no distinction between Catholics and non-Catholics, except so far as they understand the value of compassion and seek to alleviate rather than increase suffering.
The Catholic church knowingly and quite consciously choses to see AIDs in Africa increase rather than accept methods that will decrease suffering. Their dogma is more important than human life or to "alleviating suffering."
With logic like that, you're certain to impress everyone sharing the bong.
I'm not impressed. But then I'm bogarting...
Oh...and what R@d@r said, too!
What are you saying? Repeal the 1st amendment?
How am I saying that. I'm all for letting people sell flowers in airports or voluntarily deprive themselves of protein.
But I'm against letting them undermine secular institutions that take a few hundred years of post-Englightment science into account.
What are you saying? Repeal the 1st amendment?
I didn't hear anyone say that. But then again, I opposed the war against Iraq, so I guess that means I wish Saddam was still in power.
K=(1000), E=(0), I=(1), T=(0), O=(0), Y=(1) ("I"), U=(5) (interchangeasble, in inscriptions, with V), R=(0), I=(1)
1008? But with modern gematrian technology, wherein the numbers are not "Roman" but their alphabetical order,
k=(11), e=(5), i=(9), t=(20), o=(15), y=(25), u=(21), r=(1
, i=(9)
(133)
And anyway, wouldn't a Bible writer be referring to the Hebrew assignment of numbers?
k=(20), y=(10), v=(2), y=(10), r=(200), y=(10)
(252)
Unless, of course, it's utter bullshit anyway...
I could not care any less what the pope thinks.
Someone once told me that a religion is just a cult with a good financial background. Maybe, maybe not. Like I've said over and over, if your religious belief gets you through the day without blowing your brains out or someone else's, then it's fine and groovy with me. As long as you keep it to yourself, that is, and don't expect the government to subsidize it. Frankly, I'd be suspicious of an omnipotent being that needed help from a governmental body. On that same tact, I am perfectly within my rights as a human being to think such beliefs are loopy and you a bit goofy for swallowing them, but I ain't gonna try to stop you from believing and I'll be the first dog in the fight if someone else does.
That all being said, I seriously doubt we humans being will evolve beyond our current state of being until we stop desperately seeking some sort of authority figure to "guide" us. What goes for the blind belief in governments or governmental leaders goes for religion, in my book. I really do think all this current hubub is the last dying scream of an outmoded, outdated belief system and we as one can movetowards something better. Something that doesn't divide us. Something for everyone.
But that's just me. As Holden likes to point out, I do smoke a lot of grass.
The Catholic church knowingly and quite consciously choses to see AIDs in Africa increase rather than accept methods that will decrease suffering. Their dogma is more important than human life or to "alleviating suffering."
You may well be right. But not all Catholics participate in that on a personal level, so I'm not going to attack random Catholics over that specific problem.
I'm just saying, as R@d@r did, "by their works ye shall know them." Some Catholics do a lot of good in the world. I personally might wonder how they can bear to be Catholics if they're staunch believers in gay rights, or what have you...but that's something for them to work out, not me.
Fuck the Pope. Fuck Bush. Fuck the Pope fucking Bush. Fucking fuckety fuck. They're both brain-addled power-mongering shitheads who are irrelevant to the real world lives of most people, even if one of them is occasionally right about one or two subjects. Yeah, yeah, good for the Pope to give it to Bush. Give it to him just like he's an altar boy and you're a Boston priest. Fuck 'em both. Hard.
There was a great article in the LA Weekly twenty years ago on this very question. The thesis was this: Pope needs American money, but hates American Catholics, because American Catholics have a tendency to believe in their right to disagree, their right to free speech, in effect, to have an opinion that is not shared by the church, whereas the Vatican accepts no such thing. As this article put it, American Catholics believe the Bill of Rights trumps the Vatican. The article specifically mentioned Americans' ability to decide which sins were really sins and which were okay to commit, and their/our assumption that this kind of interpretation was OKAY. The Pope's point of view being somewhat different; i.e. if you THINK about doing x (adultery, abortion, contraception, ox-coveting, etc.), you're going to Hell. Americans think these things are negotiatable and open to interpretation; the Pope, not so much. Anyway, the idea is simply that the Pope doesn't like to have to kiss the asses of the people he needs but who he sees as an affront to his authority, and worse, the idiots (American Catholics) don't even know or understand that they're sinning. As an American lapsed Catholic, I loved this analysis and obviously have never forgotten it.
You may well be right. But not all Catholics participate in that on a personal level, so I'm not going to attack random Catholics over that specific problem.
But you said:
To feel free, as a Catholic, to come to one's own conclusions on matters of life and death is to stand in a problematic relationship with the religion itself. One can either ignore the Pope's anti-war stance and support Bush jubilantly, or one can decide that one's conscience cannot accept the Church's strictures on birth control or gay rights (for instance). But either way, when you deviate from the Church on matters of life and death, you are that much less a Catholic, having either diminished yourself in regards to the Church, or diminished the Church in regards to yourself.
Therefore, in so far as you oppose the Catholic hieracry's conscious elevation of Catholic dogma over alleviating suffering in Africa, you make yourself less Catholic.
Right now the CC is busy trying to figure out where teaching authority lies. Please not that the CC is not just the Pope and bishops but all members. There is a valid arguement within Catholic teaching that the Holy Spirit speaks to the laity just as much to the hierarchy. The problem is how to move a 2000 year old world wide institution from here to there. On a side topic, to judge all Catholics by the crimes and coverups of some priests and bishops is to judge all Americans by Abu Ghraib. The pederasty scandal has exposed the problems of a hierarchy that answers to no one but itself. Believe me, we're doing a lot of house cleaning, but it's going to take time. Mu guesss is that in 5 or 10 years you won't recognize the place.
BTW:
There are Jews in the world.
There are Buddhists.
There are Hindus and Mormons, and then
There are those that follow Mohammed, but
I've never been one of them.
I'm a Roman Catholic,
And have been since before I was born,
And the one thing they say about Catholics is:
They'll take you as soon as you're warm.
You don't have to be a six-footer.
You don't have to have a great brain.
You don't have to have any clothes on. You're
A Catholic the moment Dad came,
Because
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.
Well now, wait a minute, now you're talking like Jeff Sessions. The Vatican "Catholic Hierarchy" has never meant that much to Catholics, viz the French.
Well now, wait a minute, now you're talking like Jeff Sessions. The Vatican "Catholic Hierarchy" has never meant that much to Catholics, viz the French.
kei & yuri | Email | Homepage | 06.04.04 - 8:52 pm | #
Perhaps they're in collusion with the weather-controlling Jewish vampires and the Venusian lesbian truck-driving cartel.
That all being said, I seriously doubt we humans being will evolve beyond our current state of being until we stop desperately seeking some sort of authority figure to "guide" us. What goes for the blind belief in governments or governmental leaders goes for religion, in my book. I really do think all this current hubub is the last dying scream of an outmoded, outdated belief system and we as one can movetowards something better. Something that doesn't divide us. Something for everyone.
I agree, but I have a somewhat more negative (?) take on it. I think that for whatever reason, we are faith-based creatures. I believe that every one of us, without exception, has a certain amount of irrational belief that we're going to be put in SOMETHING. If it's not Jesus or Allah, it'll be Bush or Marx or Science or who knows what. That's what we DO.
I don't actually believe that humans evolve mentally at all...you can't read history and believe that. I think we're stuck being what we are, and that acceptance of that fact is more likely to bring salvation--of a sort--than belief in some reaching some future evolutionary form...which, to my mind, is another form of utopianism and another false (or at least unprovable) comfort.
The ultimate problem is, we really don't have anything better to offer a world of irrational beings than the "God-folk" do. Or did I miss something?
Venusian lesbian truck drivers? Where? Martians always get lost...
And our point was, it sounded like Sessions yarbling about whether or not someone was a "good Catholic", which is largely pointless.
The main thing is that Bush got talked down ,500,000 + people are trashing him in the streets and you guys are moaning about the Pope, you should be celebrating.
The Vatican "Catholic Hierarchy" has never meant that much to Catholics, viz the French.
BTW, I don't know what I'm talking about so take this with a grain of salt.
My impression's always been that some Catholics (French, Italian) have always been more sceptical of the church hierarcy and less puritanical than others (Irish, Poles), partly because the church hierarchy in France and Italy have always been identified with the government and the church hierarchy in Poland and Ireland identified with national liberation movements.
This allowed the latent pagan element in Catholicism to flourish in France and Italy but not in Ireland.
As much as the Catholic hierarchy likes to think it's the guardian of tradition against technology, social evolution, it can't avoid it.
Is it possible that Judeo/Christian/Islamic religions become more puritanical and repressive as they come into contact with technology and as "globalization" affects them.
The Catholic church 50 years ago was still made more human by local customs, tradition. Now that there are no folk customs, tradition it's no different from hard ass Evangelical televanglism or Bin Ladanism.
"I'm looking forward to the day when such cats as him have no sway over the public conscious."
Make that calico cats...
Lisa.... you sound suspiciously like a nativist in the 19th century that warned about the evils of the "popery".
SWR, that's probably right.
Philalethes,
My brother feels much the same way. "We don't learn from history," he says. "History proves that." Perhaps, perhaps not. We really haven't evolved much in the past couple thousand years, admittedly, but we've been hanging on to the same shit - trade, religion, the concept that one guy (king/pope/president) is the ultimate authority - and every single individual involved in such thing have a vested interest in making sure those things don't go away. And since they're the ones running the show, it ain't gonna go away soon. I'm an idealist but I'm also a realist...which makes me into a curmudgeon, or so I've been told.
As to whether we have something better to offer than the "God folk", I like to think so. It's personal fulfillment. It's the beauty and wonder of creation. It's the idea that this brief life is meant to be enjoyed, not spent slaving away at a job to keep up with the Jones or in mortal fear of some being that can't be seen.
I'm not saying it'll happen anytime soon, or ever. Like I said, I'm a realist. I'm just saying it's possible. So maybe this religious age will die and take its assholes screaming down with it, and we'll just replace it with another just as silly and oppressive. History shows us that's what will probably happen. But it's nice to think of what could happen, innit?
SWR:
Yeah, diminished as Catholics, but BETTER as human beings.
Reconciling themselves to their faith--or leaving it--is their own business. But if they go against the Church's uglier teachings, good for them. I'd think they'd go a step further and leave the Church altogether...but that's just me.
I do find it weird that you could be a good person and yet belong to a Church that has such ugly beliefs. It's confusing, and saying so is what got me into this discussion. But it's also TRUE, as I know from personal experience.
I just thought cm's points were dubious...because the "small number" of things a Catholic has to believe MUST include guidelines on killing...or what fucking use is the belief system?
Lisa.... you sound suspiciously like a nativist in the 19th century that warned about the evils of the "popery".
That's all well and good but this is 2004 and the last time I checked there wasn't a Anglo Saxon Protestant elite and a massive wave of working-class Catholic immigration.
The context is completely different. I take the Little Green Footballs style of anti-Islamism with a grain of salt because it's a cover to hate immigrants and restrict civil liberties of Americans. It doesn't mean I don't also think Islam's a medieval death cult.
Venusian lesbian truck drivers? Where? Martians always get lost...
Well, where do you think those Venusian big rigs are going to?
just thought cm's points were dubious...because the "small number" of things a Catholic has to believe MUST include guidelines on killing...or what fucking use is the belief system?
Liberal Protestants and most Jews seem to be able to live with the separation of church and state.
Evangelical Protestants seem to have a lot of trouble with it, as do Muslims.
I honestly haven't come to a conclusion about Catholics. Until recently it seemed as if they had squared the circle and come to an understanding. But now with the attempts to deny Catholic politicians communion, I'm not terribly sure.
Is there any core Catholic belief that conflicts it the First Amendment?
Backslider...
No argument from me. But I don't see how "It's nice to think of what could happen" is much more "realistic" than any other wishful fantasy. I don't mean that in a snide way; I just marvel at the different things that comfort people in an uncertain world.
I know religious people who don't fear God or anything else. They're not afraid of punishments, not expecting rewards, and they do, indeed, take joy in mere existence. I envy them, sometimes. Anyone who makes it to that point is doing OK, and I don't care how he or she got there.
They have a cat in the Vatican? I thought that cats were incubi?
Echidne
Well I sure hope it's not a calico cat!
I'm definitely in the fuck the pope in the ear contingent. It's just too ironic to hear the spiritual successor of the popes who authorized Hammer & Sprengler's dirty jobs talking about "respect for life." Pro-life? That's a lie. They don't care if women die.
"First you get down
on yer knees,
fiddle with your rosaries,
bow yer heads with great respect and-
genuflect, genuflect,genuflect!
Make a cross on your abdomen,
When in Rome, do like a Roman.
Ave maria, gee its good to see ya,
doin' the Vatican Rag!"--T. Lehrer
Philalethes,
Well, I'll be the first to admit my little fantasy isn't too far off the farm from religion. Difference is - or what I see the difference being, anyway - is that there's no easy answers or belief in someone else pulling humanity's little red wagon. Anytime someone says "Hey, I've got the way, y'all follow me" we're just starting the same old circle jerk. History just repeats itself, no matter how benign the intentions, and nothing really changes.
Plus, no one's gotta get his/her head cut off or get burnt at the stake in my world. Sorta down on that, personally.
Bush knows he's lost the support of many of the folks who voted for him last time. He's shoring up his religious base big time. This meeting with the Pope is a shameless attempt to get the conservative Catholic vote, as was his recent interview with "Christian Journalists" including arch-conservative RCs Deal Hudson, Richard John Neuhaus, Marvin Olasky and Russell Shaw.
And then there's this little campaign stunt. (NY Times)
In his interview, Bush offered this perplexing opinion: "Separation of church and state [is] important in America. And by that I mean the people of faith should participate in the state, and there's a difference."
And yes, there is something about this on my blog, however did you know? 
I just got back from Italy, where I got to see tombs of the Medici and Borgia popes. Those guys fucked and probably got fucked.
ANd I would have hoped the current guy, if not so debilitated, could have smacked the Chimperor with some sort of exorcism. In the old days Bush would have been toast.
In the old days Bush would have been toast.
In the old days Bush would have probably been marshaling all of the empire's forces for a Crusade in the East against the Saracens.
Oh wait.......
OT (Adamuchan)
ummm...there is no way to introduce this, so:
"
Out of necessity, the Alliance would be restricted only to the five nations I’ve named above or, in other words, to Britain, the United States, and what were called the “white” Dominions. The reasons for this are obvious: these five nations are the only five in the entire world which share sufficient commonalities to allow for the creation of such a close alliance without much trouble. Americans who are understandably alarmed at the prospect of tens of millions of Third Worlders streaming over the borders [Adamuchan is a Second Worlder. -ED] in the event of the creation of an economic union spanning the Americans are unlikely to be particularly menaced by the prospect of the transfer of a few million Britons to America (and a few million Americans to Britain) or any of the other scenarios which would develop in such a situation.
"
Adam Yoshida wants the white English-speaking nations to form an "Apartheid Alliance" for some reason. Somthing to do with the EU being insufficiently white (and English-speaking).
A religion is just a cult with a long enough history. Personally, I think it takes about 150 years -- otherwise, how do you explain the acceptance of Mormonism as a respectable religion. Talk about a whacked set of beliefs....
There is something to the idea that humans have to have faith in something. If it's not a god or goddess, then it is a political philosophy or the sort of irrational faith in science that I'm noticing more and more, especially when it comes to having faith in all the quasi-sciences. Yet the great irony is that the one thing we can never get away is uncertainty and not knowing who put us here, if anybody did, or why. The world is a very complicated place and human beings are complicated, too. This seems unacceptable to the vast majority of people. They want to have an answer, a simple answer, and they don't really care if it isn't answering much of what goes on in the world.
That's why I decided to become a goddess. Much simpler, the life of us divines.
Adam Yoshida wants the white English-speaking nations to form an "Apartheid Alliance" for some reason. Somthing to do with the EU being insufficiently white (and English-speaking).
If I were Satan I would materialize in front of Adam Yoshida and offer him a choice.
For the price of both of his testicles I will turn him into a blond, blue eyed White Anglo Saxon Protestant.
I will give him the ability to reproduce since I'm assuming that would be crucial for his type, but I would deny him any opportunity for sexual pleasure should he accept the offer.
And now that I've dispensed with the blogwhoring, I can get to the personal comments...as I've mentioned before, I grew up RC, drifted away, came back when I had children and left again last year. I was tired of being a "cafeteria Catholic" and supporting an organization that had such hatred for women and gays.
On Tuesday night, I was confirmed as an Episcopalian. Not one of those new old fangled Anglicans, but a nice, liberal, peace-lovin', gay marriage supportin', pro-choice marchin' mainline Protestant.
The more I hear about what the RCC is up to these days, the more I shudder to think that I was bringing up my children in that church.
It ain't about birth control or queers. If you really want to know why the Vatican hates the US, read the article at my homepage.
SWR, how is Yoshima going to reproduce without the testicles? Or is this a secret?
SWR,
I imagine he'd take the deal. That is, assuming, Young Adam is an Asian-type fellow. I'd hate to judge solely based on his last name, and I can't bring myself to revisit his blog to refresh my rememberin'.
Ahhh, me...and aparthide worked so well every other time it's been tried. And concerning the EU being insufficiently English-speaking, ummmm...isn't there a good many countries in Europe that aren't English-speaking, so therefor it's natural they're "insufficiently English speaking"? It's almost like the stereotypical "ugly American" tourist who gets pissed because Japan natives who have the gall to not speak English.
I don't think logic is our boy Adam's friend.
SWR, how is Yoshima going to reproduce without the testicles? Or is this a secret?
I'd be Satan, I could do anything I wanted.
But the essence of what I'd be doing would be to set up a choice for him.
He can be white and not experience another orgasm in his life.
He can remain Asian and have a normal sex life.
How much does he hate himself?
"Get into a long processional,
and step into that small confessional.
And there the guy that's got religion'll
Tell you if yer sin's original.
And if it is try playin' it safer
Drink the wine and chew the wafer!
Two, four, six eight,
Time to transubstantiate!"
---T. Lehrer
The holy protector of child rapists should clean up his own house before he tells anyone else how to live.
The Fahrenheit 9/11 trailer is back online after a brief absence. The QuickTime version is hosted by Apple. I didn't click on the Winblows Media version.
The holy protector of child rapists should clean up his own house before he tells anyone else how to live.
Doesn't Ratzinger hire the official Papal Diaper changing boys from the elect alter boys of Italy and Switzerland?
SWR, ignorant jingai-ejaculation control, orgasm without spunk. Want pamphlet?
SWR, ignorant jingai-ejaculation control, orgasm without spunk. Want pamphlet?
kei & yuri | Email | Homepage | 06.04.04 - 9:44 pm | #
Well, that'd save money on tissues and gym socks, now, wouldn't it?
Add these numbers up and you get 666. I rest my case
Oh puhleze!
So you're saying the Pope is the Anti-Christ?
Dude, there's been,what, 200 Popes so far? Right, so 200 anti-Christs. Gimme a break. Go read the Davinci Code and come back when you know the right answer.
If anyone is the beast, it's the Chimpster.
How to Good-Bye Depression : If You Constrict Anus 100 Times Everyday. Malarkey? or Effective Way?
by Hiroyuki Nishigaki. I think constricting anus 100 times and denting navel 100 times in succession everyday is effective to good-bye depression and take backľ youth. You can do so at a boring meeting or in a subway. I have known a 70-year-old man who has practiced it for 20 years. As a result, he has a good complexion and has grown 20 years younger. His eyes sparkle. He is full of vigor, happiness and joy. He has neither complained nor born a grudge under any circumstance. Furthermore, he can make #### three times in succession without drawing out.
"In addition, he also can have burned a strong, beautiful fire within his abdomen. It can burn out the dirty stickiness of his body, release his immaterial fiber or third attention, which has been confined to his stickiness. Then, he can shoot out his immaterial fiber or third attention to an object, concentrate on it and attain happy lucky feeling through the success of concentration.
"If you don't know concentration, which gives you peculiar pleasure, your life looks like hell."
Okay, how does one dent one's navel. Mine looks pretty damn dented already.
OT: Have any of you seen this up at CNN showing Big Dog as one of Kerry's possible choices for VP?
Now that would be cool.
Am I the only one who's outraged by the "women have to cover their heads w/ veils in the pope's presence" thing????? Am I nuts or are we not fighting a war against people who make their women cover up in veils and burkhas? WTF? WTF? Fuck the pope in both ears and make HIM wear a veil while it happens!!!!
The muscles surrounding your urethra, boys, can be mastered through your anus because (in addition to the whole prostate thing), the thing you do to not make babies turns out to be the same thing you do to not make water. You strenghthen it like any other muscle, thus the repititions of anal contractions during boring meetings.
Hecate-you know how horny those popes have been in the past, mustn't tempt them.
kei & yuri,
Helps for long car trips, too. See, kids, practical and fun.
I think the anus should be contracted about 1000 times in succession. This will bring the precious bodily juices up the spine and into the brain, brighten the eyes and dent the navel.
Hecate-you know how horny those popes have been in the past, mustn't tempt them.
Turning into Satan:
I hereby summon Lyndie Englund ad Charles Graner to kidnap both the Pope and Dick Cheney.
Forced sex and a double heart attack. I feel satanic even thinking of it.
Come Lyndie. Bring your familiar Charles. I have an assignment for you my evil little redneck darling.
Jumped ahead.
Has this article from Capitol Hill Blue about Bush's "erratic behavior and wide mood swings" been posted?
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/
a...icle_4636.shtml
Not suprising, but still alarming considering who we are talking about.
Actually, that anus contracting stuff can be really dangerous. It's from the fire-method qigong, and it is strongly advised not to carry out any such exercizes without the help of a competent teacher.
History just repeats itself, no matter how benign the intentions, and nothing really changes.
My point exactly. Believe me, no one here has made any general point about religion--pro or con--that wasn't old news when the pyramids were going up. Some people like it, some people hate it, some people are indifferent.
To me the point of religion--and I'd class myself as religious mainly because I believe it's OBJECTIVELY wrong to drop napalm on children, which is surely a form of religious faith--is not punishment or reward some some deity.
What's at stake is living up to one's own best instincts and highest possibilities--which may be divinely inspired, or may not. Who cares, ultimately? The point of living is NOT to be a goddamn selfish greedy reptile like George W. Bush, and if saying so makes me a Christian or a Buddhist or a Muslim or what have you, fine.
I'd prefer to worship Echidne, though.
Plus, no one's gotta get his/her head cut off or get burnt at the stake in my world. Sorta down on that, personally.
You big sissy!
Yo
You big softy!
Oh, how weird...I don't know what happened to that last post! Oh well, softy, sissy...whatever.
Furthermore, he can make #### three times in rapid succession without drawing out.
thus the repititions of anal contractions during boring meetings.
Or while watching tapes from Abu Ghraib, which'll get you tensing up down there in no time.
Hecate-you know how horny those popes have been in the past, mustn't tempt them.
kei& yuri
There is not enough Stoli in the whole wide world.....
Furthermore, he can make #### three times in rapid succession without drawing out.
So what's so great about that? Ooops, I forgot, it's a guy, right? 
"Am I the only one who's outraged by the "women have to cover their heads w/ veils in the pope's presence" thing????? Am I nuts or are we not fighting a war against people who make their women cover up in veils and burkhas? WTF? WTF? Fuck the pope in both ears and make HIM wear a veil while it happens!!!!
Hecate"
If I remember correctly from when I used to be a Catholic, the Pope wears his skull cap in respect to god. One covers one's head to respect god, and therefore, women must do the same. I don't think it has anything to do with reverence for the Pope.
All these superstitious rituals are nonsense. Imagine a god so egotistical that one must be obsequious to it. Man invents his gods in his own egotistical image.
Or while watching tapes from Abu Ghraib, which'll get you tensing up down there in no time
Bush, Cheney, the Pope, Dennis Hastert, Rush, O'Reilly, Arial Sharon, Ann Coulter, a whole stack of men piled on top of one another naked except for the plastic bags on their heads.
That would not be boring. That would be justice.
OT: Have any of you seen this up at CNN showing Big Dog as one of Kerry's possible choices for VP?
Tom Brokaw??????
TOM BROKAW?????
He's only listed as 'other contenders' but it closes his graf with, "Brokaw has denied any interest in elected office, including the vice presidency, and has even refused to declare his political affiliation. "
uh, so why is he even on this list???
HUMPHREY WILLIAMS:
...And spotteth twice they the camels before the third hour, and so, the Midianites went forth to Ram Gilead in Kadesh Bilgemath, by Shor Ethra Regalion, to the house of Gash-Bil-Bethuel-Bazda, he who brought the butter dish to Balshazar and the tent peg to the house of Rashomon, and there slew they the goats, yea, and placed they the bits in little pots.
Here endeth the lesson.
CHAPLAIN:
Let us praise God. O Lord,...
CONGREGATION:
O Lord,...
CHAPLAIN:
...ooh, You are so big,...
CONGREGATION:
...ooh, You are so big,...
CHAPLAIN:
...so absolutely huge.
CONGREGATION:
...so absolutely huge.
CHAPLAIN:
Gosh, we're all really impressed down here, I can tell You.
CONGREGATION:
Gosh, we're all really impressed down here, I can tell You.
CHAPLAIN:
Forgive us, O Lord, for this, our dreadful toadying, and...
CONGREGATION:
And barefaced flattery.
CHAPLAIN:
But You are so strong and, well, just so super.
CONGREGATION:
Fantastic.
HUMPHREY:
Amen.
CONGREGATION:
Amen.
Bush, Cheney, the Pope, Dennis Hastert, Rush, O'Reilly, Arial Sharon, Ann Coulter, a whole stack of men piled on top of one another naked except for the plastic bags on their heads.
The real torture for most of those guys would be the penis envy they'd suffer from being naked with Ann Coulter.
pompous pontiff,
bloated windbag,
go away,
let people be.
pot kettle black
Iraqi PM Urges War on Sabotage, Zarqawi Aide Held
And once you have contracted your anus enough times, you can fuck a dolphin.
And once you have contracted your anus enough times, you can fuck a dolphin
No thanks. I'll stick to English Speaking Sheep. Baaahaaahaaa.
my god, kei & yuri! This is what happens when we let gay people get married, people start posting FAQ's on dolphin sex.
The real torture for most of those guys would be the penis envy they'd suffer from being naked with Ann Coulter.
Man, was just flipping channels and there was Annie flipping her hair trying to give that Sharon Stone peek from Basic Instincts.
renato - Guess you know Brokaw has resigned effective this summer I think. Apparently he has a deep interest in politics, great name recognition, his positives are sky high in polls, and would bring that "fresh air" quality to the ticket (my two cents).
The real torture for most of those guys would be the penis envy they'd suffer from being naked with Ann Coulter.
Man, was just flipping channels and there was Annie flipping her hair trying to give that Sharon Stone peek from Basic Instincts.
Did she have a penis?
Lateral lisp.
Shaw,
OK, how about for the next 2000 years, the pope wears his stupid little cap, men wear veils, and the women walk around with nothing on their heads? Know why not? Because it's got nothing to do with respect for the Xian god and everything to do with keeping women in their place.
DAS:
That was a very interesting post, and i'd like to learn a bit more... Can you point me in the direction of any books/scripture passages which illuminate the historic difference between gay rights and "pederasty/facultative homosexuality "
thanks!
John Cleese suggested an "axis of nations that like to put lipstick on sheep".
Did she have a penis?
jefe - Didn't see her penis, but her scrotum was hanging pretty low. She has a huge set of nuts.
OK, how about for the next 2000 years, the pope wears his stupid little cap, men wear veils, and the women walk around with nothing on their heads?
I'm into topless nuns and the free and liberal distribution of sacremental wine (and I'm assuming they have some really good, really old stuff in the basement of the Vatican) myself.
Actually, as anti-Catholic as I am, being allowed to wander though the Vatican alone and unsupervised for a week, being given the keys to every room and access to every written record would be awesome.
What kind of interesting old skeletans do they have in that basement.
Hecate,
No argument from me on that. I believe it was Gary Wills book "Papal Sin" where I read that at some point in Catholic history, the Church looked upon women as "vessels of filth."
It is women's sexuality that scares the shit out of them.
Having a baby? (You shouldn't if you've been constricting your anus!) Generate a Pagan Name! This thing is fucking awesome!
like:
Vladimir Limp Wristed Raven
Gay Knight Squating Dreams
Dragon Boi Cornfed Horse
"Give me any plague, but the plague of the heart: and any wickedness, but the wickedness of a woman." (Eccles. 25:13)
Morlock Raving Raven? How does that beat Echidne as a pagan name?
I had an extremely long and trying day. A three hour surgery that lasted seven hours.
I came home, made a G&T and relaxed reading this thread. I must say, this is one of the most entertaining threads I have read in days.
Thoughtful, insightful and extremely hilarious. And, I too, am in the fuck the pope category.
Wow! I am:
Vampire Loose Sphincter Gnome
A pisser of a name!
And, I too, am in the fuck the pope category.
With Ann Coulter's penis.
I just wanted to say thanks to all of you ... sincerely, I read all 205 comments to that point and just had a laugh ... cheers to your collective insight, witt and hilarity.
And fuck the pope.
finn - If you are a surgeon, the WH needs you urgently. Seems quite of few people lately have got there heads stuck up there asses looking for there lost credibility. You can start with Colin Powell.
O.T.: My Grandmother lives in an apartment building for the elderly, perhaps 300 apartments. I'm thinking of offering a free ticket and ride to Fahrenheit 9/11 - first come, first served to all the highrise's residents. I could even rent a short bus. I just watched the trailer and I don't see how you could watch this movie and still vote Bush. If I do it & it works I'll post again.
Max Rockatansky - If you have enough people you may be able to get a private showing kinda like Mel did with his slasher film.
shit, what is keeping that husk alive?
Max Rockatansky
It tends to come in threes.
This fall:
1.) Reagan
2.) The Pope
3.) ?
Loose Sphincter? Not if you contract your anus!!
And:
"THE INCIPIENT GOVERNMENT AGENTS GOT INTO MY COMPUTER AND DELETED THE PORTION ABOUT GERALDINE FERRARO WINNING THE NEW HAMPSHIRE PRIMARY BY A LANDSLIDE OF -5 VOTES AND ABC NEWS ANNOUNCED AL SHARPTON THE WINNER 39% TO 37% AT 4 IN THE MORNING.....####.
I HAVE THIS PORTRAIT AS A BACKGROUND FOR MY COMPUTER!!!!"
OT: Blog cat fight!
Why can't we just oil get along?
Aren't we on the same side?
sp
I'm sitting here with my Milwaukee's Best Light ($9.00 a case, kind of tastes like Miller mixed with cheese, but not in a really bad way) and I was thinking that older people like to vote so it would be nice to throw some good propaganda their way.
Was Conason's 'The Hunting of the President' released on video or dvd yet? I was also thinking of getting a copy and leaving it in their sitting room. It couldn't hurt.
Vampire Battery Operated Dreamer
That's me.
And, sheesh, K&Y that other site with the weird dude almost swallowed my computer!
MisterX
Take a listen to "My Vanishing/Appearing Body" at that same site. Sheesh is right!
Take a listen to "My Vanishing/Appearing Body" at that same site. Sheesh is right!
Rrose Sélavy
Oh no, I'm not going back there again... my computer is still rattling and muttering to itself. It had to increase it's VIRTUAL MEMORY because Yog-Sothoth ATE IT or something.
Double sheesh.
agrajag, I don't have any problem with what you said, doesn't piss me off one bit.
Basically I agree with you.
On the other hand, I also agree with Kei&Yuri, that we shouldn't look askance at Bu$h getting his butt blistered, just because of the Popes wrong stance on other issues.
Patriotboy, I'm also a godless apostate from the Mormon church, although not nearly of your high apostateness. Kewl!
Basically my take on Catholocism is the same as it is on EVERY organized religion that says this: If you're not a member of our religion you're going to hell!
This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If we are God's children, and God loves us, then why would he condemn us to an eternity in hell just because we weren't a member of some shitty religion? Sort of defeats the whole purpose of free will and learning our own lessons doesn't it?
Religion in general is not a crutch, it's a control system. And they are every bit as corrupt and hypocritical as most politicians (not saying there's not good people involved still), at least when you get up to the leadership ranks.
That's my 2 cents.
Cheers
Max Rockatansky - My latest favorite take on energizing the elderly vote is to tell them how those drugs from Canada are not safe, you may be getting a placebo because them Canucks don't have no FDA like us good Amerukin's do so that's why we need to stop the elderly from importing drugs. Also that we need to help big pharma pay for all them R&D cost, they need to make a buck too. I just go into hyper freeper mode with all the BS talking points. Really gets there juices flowing when they respond talking about why they can't get the same drugs for half the price across the border. Child psychology for the elderly.
With Ann Coulter's penis.
Oh thanks for that image.
Must. Get. Image. Out. Of. Brain.
Who here remembers the Futurama episode with the homophobic robot planet? This has nothing to do with that.
SILENCE!
This is just great...a crazy woman (with crazy friends) representing some kind of intergalactic council of extraterrestrials, and the only language other than English on the site is Espańol?
Bad night to work late. I missed out on a few hours of good old fashioned pope bashing.
Bad night to work late. I missed out on a few hours of good old fashioned pope bashing.
clonecone
But you're just in time for the new fangled Coulter bashing.
It tends to come in threes.
This fall:
1.) Reagan
2.) The Pope
3.) ?
Can we start a pool? Put same names on spot #3?
"But you're just in time for the new fangled Coulter bashing."
I did catch a few seconds of her bobbing adam's apple on Irish Gorilla and Colmes.
chris/tx:
I so agree with your post. Also, I don't know how it works in other states, but I love that here in PA we have these complexes that allow the elderly to live there at whatever price they can pay. My Grandmother worked in a factory for 30 years and her pension is an absolute f'n shame.
I'm all for getting people out to vote, hopefully they'll realize that voting Dem. is in their own best interest.
Aw, jeez, am I too late for the Pope?
What's Italian for "Ragger!"
"I'm sitting here with my Milwaukee's Best Light"
I'll stick to my Celebrator Doppelbock. Life is too short to drink the Shame of Wisconsin.
Lisa.... you sound suspiciously like a nativist in the 19th century that warned about the evils of the "popery".
I sound like a what??
This is just precious-it's a "bible code" site, tolerably well set up, and in their scans for the word "bush" and variants they came up with "incoherent babbling idiot" and had to backtrack with this talk about "the stereotype that has been set up for him" ("al gore" scans got "articulate" results with similar explainings-away).
Lisa-he called you a byyyaaaatch!
Absolutely disgusting anti-Kerry cartoon, apparently taking place on an airplane and implying that the communion host is somehow aborted fetuses.
Can someone please post a link to the butterpat email regarding WH'Ho? I haven't been able to find it.
!!!! I didn't know Faithmouse was a misshapen talking penis! Weird.
As bad as the Matrix sequels were, this is...well...let's just say Jesus makes everything stupider...
Faithmouse! The cartoon of the Christian right.
I'm certain that Jesus is giggling.
I dunno if he will see this so far downthread, but before I forget:
Go get-em Smarty! I expect to see you doing the Triple Crown Strut this time tomorrow night!
Nevermind. Found it.
As you were ...
"I'm certain that Jesus is giggling."
I didn't know 2000 year old corpses could giggle. My boss is definitely not a Jewish carpenter. I worship at the shrine of Echidne.
Holy Shit! We are peeing ourselves in shock! We were going off this catalog of internet insanity, called Insolitology.com, and what should we see listed but a certain conoisseur of drunken Amazones? Their comment: "If he had any charisma at all and did not obsess over Jenna Bush, we would have a cult leader in the making there."
The Pope, the motherfucking Pope, is on your side if only in this one fight and all you can say is "fuck you". kei & yuri
Hey, K&Y: Fuck you.
If you think any of the opinions expressed here are a victory or defeat for Bush, you're either seriously deluded or dumb as a mud fence. Get over yourself(ves).
I don't give a good goddamn if the Pope happens to get something right now and then, in blind chicken style. He is still the head of the RCC, and the RCC is a destructive death cult with a veil of respectability due to age and wide influence. It's the ultimate pig with lipstick. Maybe if he stops condoning his employees raping little boys, he might become worth listening to.
I believe that Little Ricky has acheived his Fifteen Minutes of Fame.
He must feel proud.
Or not.
Ricky is a cult leader. He's the leader of all his split personalities. BM, thruth, AM, anonymous, misspelled name stealer...
Holy shit, k&y, the faces in the cartoons on that site (especially this) all look like penises on top of arses!
I gotta side with the Fuck off Re: Pope crowd. Isn't there some saying about a non-functioning clock and its conditions of correctness per 24 hour period?
Fuck the old man. Fuck Mother Church and fuck every crime done in a deity's name.
Holy shit, k&y, the faces in the cartoons on that site (especially this) all look like penises on top of arses!
Magnum
That comment is soooo 11:58...
Heh heh.
Thanksgiving Day, we'll spill
cranberry sauce onto white
tablecloths, to symbolize
our menstrutivity
Oh those stupid little veils -- they're not required. Vatican etiquette doesn't require those. The president of Ireland didn't wear one when she had her private audience and if a fine educated colleen like herself doesn't feel required to wear one then obviously it's not required. Jeez. What year is this, 1962?
It's clear to me that one of the dozens of creepy Opus Dei types that clusters around this administration piped up and said, "Hey! Chicks gotta wear veils!" and since the WH staff is so damn ignorant they bought it. And of course the Opus type kicked himself all the way home, 'cause he really wanted to say, "Hey! No chicks allowed! Not even Laura!" but he figured they'd see through that and laugh at him. But after they bought the veil thing, he realized they woulda bought the no chicks allowed thing too, no question. Tsk tsk, a lapse in boldness, little Opus. An extra hour with the whip tonight.
(I'd put money on it, that's how the veil thing came about.)
If your site looks like this, refrain from declaring yourself to be the-or, indeed, any-webmaster.
(I'd put money on it, that's how the veil thing came about.)
Nah, w thought the Pope was muslim, or muslin, or something like that.
Fuck them both in the ear.
Or, excuse us, "Web Page Designer Extraordinaire, Self Employed".
Fall Pool:
1. Reagan
2. Pope
3. Kissinger
4. Elvis
And once you have contracted your anus enough times, you can fuck a dolphin.
Ewwwww!
Max -- I could contribute $10.00 if you figure out a way to have it sent to you. Let me know.
So until Jesus returns to take me to Paradise to fly around and sing with the angels of the glory of God the Father I will toil on this cursed earth until all who live and breathe know that Jesus is the only way to escape the snap-crackle-pop of eternal HELL!!! Amen.
"Web Page Designer Extraordinaire, Self Employed".
That's the fucking ugliest website I've ever seen.
"Web Page Designer Extraordinaire, Self Employed".
That's the fucking ugliest website I've ever seen.
Are you saying you don't appreciate those hotties in a thong after the scroll-down?
Kei & Yuri
That "code" site is not pro-Bush. If you can stomach reading through all the babble, you get:
"Even now, with Bush's skull and bones history and other more current and shady New World Order insider connections, one does not need a great deal of imagination to see how these word definitions could come into play in a major way. [See write-up Dubya -- NWO Insider Choice.]
949 bebaios Fixed, sure, certain. Figuratively that upon which one may build, rely, or trust.
No matter who is elected, no matter how righteous or wicked, we must learn to realize that only when God is our rock and our salvation will we have a solid foundation. It is never prudent to put too much trust in the arm of flesh, even with the most benign magistrate. What matters far more than the form of government is the hearts of the people who are governed.
This sort of juxtapositioning of opposites is a common feature in alphabetics. Here it contrasts the abomination of desolation, which will be destroyed, with the rock of Christ and the Messianic kingdom prophesied to come.
Could these words surrounding the Greek word for "bush" be a prophesy that the great and abominable will come to a head during the presidency of George W. Bush?"
....
"The definition for "bush" in my Webster's '61 dictionary falls on page 301. That is the telephone area code and the last three digits of the zip code of Boulder Colorado where I was raised, and where a good friend of mine, Mark Thomase currently lives. He was the one who in August of 1999 had a vision or angelic revelation given him in which he was told that President Bush would win this election and that he would not be as much entangled with the New World Order conspiracy as his dad was.
One of the words not far before "bush" on page 301 is "bury." The death sentences in Texas comes to mind, including instances of innocence. Also, the dead body count that follows Dubya's dad and his empire is not completely isolated from himself."
Personally, I'm always fascinated by all the mental gymnastics one has to go through to find "prophecy." You'd think God could speak a little plainer, with a Hemingwayesque style.
Well, what do you know, a Christian moral enough to decry capital punishment. That would almost mean something if he wasn't fucking BATSHIT!
This toon goes here:
"Come into the Spirit of the Lord"
Isn't the sacrament of communion symbolic/ritualistic cannibalism? I always thought that was kind of sick. I remember the penguins teaching about the Donner Party and wondering why communion was any better than what they did. Hmmmm...
George Walker Bush
Let's see. 6 + 6 + 4.
There are two sixes, so we add the 2 to the 4 and now we have 6 + 6 + 6!
But there's more. Three sixes are 18. 1 and 8 are 9, or 3 + 3 + 3. This can be read as 3 hundreds, three tens, and three ones, which equals 333. By repeating the process, we get 666!
Need I say more?
Isn't the sacrament of communion symbolic/ritualistic cannibalism? I always thought that was kind of sick. I remember the penguins teaching about the Donner Party and wondering why communion was any better than what they did. Hmmmm...
Eat me.
Drink me.
Ask Alice.
When Pope Johnny takes up the daunting task of kicking known, documented pedophiles out of the clergy, I might consider listening to him.
I might.
It's not fucking likely, but I might.
Isn't the sacrament of communion symbolic/ritualistic cannibalism?
You say that like it's a bad thing!
I've thought the same thing about...but in a purely aesthetic sense I kind of like that aspect of Catholicism. It's so lurid and visceral and garish!
And how about that St. Sebastian?
With enough work, you can come up with a "prophetic" answer after the fact -- that's what's kept people talking about Nostradamus for 500 years.
Lets see....
Bush 2 was (s)elected 8 years after Bush 1.
1+8=9
9+2=11
so Bush 1 plus 8 years plus Bush 2 = 9/11
I am a prophet... of the Church of the Constricted Anusians.
When Pope Johnny takes up the daunting task of kicking known, documented pedophiles out of the clergy, I might consider listening to him.
While he's at it, he might admit to the world that "Saint" Dominic Guzman was a demented sadist and mass murderer who should, by all rights, be wailing in Hell at this very hour. A Church that venerates a man like Guzman has some serious psychological problems.
But I'm not holding my breath.
Lisa-he called you a byyyaaaatch!
Oh.
Bill O'Reilly should also stop breathing in his own farts.
Just like the effect of the prolonged sniffing of model airplaine glue, I think his prolonged inhalation of his own flatulence has begun to rot his brain.
Jeremiah, it's not just the aroma he likes. I'm sure he is sitting in his corner eating dope and his own excrement right now.
"...flatulence has begun to rot his brain."
Is that why he refers to himself in the third person under the guise of that horrible Talking Points Memo?
There is nothing we hate more than the Royal We.
I am a prophet... of the Church of the Constricted Anusians.
As leader of the Immaculate and Prehensile Church of Lapsed Anusians, Scientistic, I CAST YE HERETICS OUT of this holy forum!
Bush 41 ruled for 4 years. 4 + 1 + 4 = 9.
Bush 43 was the 2nd Bush to become president. 4 + 3 + 2 = 9.
41 and 43 = 84, which was the year Reagan won his second term. He was the 42nd president. 42 + 84 = 126. 1 + 2 + 6 = 9. There have been two Bush presidencies, so 9 + 2 = 11.
Both Bush presidencies represent the "9" in 9/11 (even if you add them together, you get 18, and 1 + 8 = 9). And joining them with Reagan's data provides the "11." Therefore, it's clear that the last three Republican presidents were to blame for the catastrophe.
Phil, Yeah!! And they all had the same economic theory: 2 plus 2 equals whatever the fuck they want it to.
did george have to kiss his ring? i mean whats the protocol?
i'd like to borrow the popes staff and give ole king george a big kiss my self.
i don't even know what that means. but i do agree with posters above, bush is definitely the anti-christ.
Whoah! Friday night...
Whoah! Friday night...
Sorry about the double...full moon, too
Totally OT:
http://bushpresident2004.com/
Read at least one article before coming back and posting about the site.
Its rather well done.
I don't subscribe to your mythology, catholic or otherwise, but I'll certainly respect your beliefs as much as you respect mine.
1 = the loneliest number
2 = tea for
3 = magic number; coins in fountain
4 = two having tea
911 = joke
2525 = is man still alive?
8275309 = jenny
It all goes to show that George W. Bush is an asshole.
What about the fucking DEATH PENALTY, Mr. Pope? Seems to me that the "church" is against that, as well...
Isn't that on the list, too? It surely is more final that a gay marriage...
I leave you yay-hoos alone for a couple hours to go watch Big Trouble In Little China and all hell breaks loose. Mice that look like tallywhackers. Insane Navy preachers disturbingly close to Athens. And a website that's got the sounds of hell.
I do declare...
Isn't it 8675309 Jenny? Or am I remembering that incorrectly?
and as if we need more evidence of bush admins. incompetence
Regarding the pope's apparent reference to Abu Ghraib, McClellan said, "I'm sure the Holy Father is concerned about the abuses. The president is as well. That's why we are acting, taking a systemic look at the prison system and holding those responsible who committed those atrocities."
and how fckd up is it that president war monger is hang'n out for d day festivities and suck'n up photo ops, meanwhile comparing himself to winston churchill. i'm no historian, don't know that much about churchill, (mostly karshs famous pic, and republicans revere him) but little george is no churchill.
oh yea, scotty is a putz, and he sux at his job. granted, it's a hard job but he really sux.
Isn't it 8675309 Jenny? Or am I remembering that incorrectly?
Um. Yeah. A typo.
This doesn't affect the conclusion that George W. Bush is an asshole, though.
I stand behind my numerological conclusions on that 100%.
Isn't it 8675309 Jenny?
Yep.
Senor Bush es no asshole.
Thanks for the link, Bolo! I was almost all the way through the "Meet The Liars" article before I figured out what was up.
You f-ing assholes! The LORD declared I was picked for this jawb and you best shut your f-ing pieholes! Where's Karl? He'll shut you a-holes up pronto!
Anyone else here who won forty-eight percent of the popular vote wanna raise your hands? Anyone? Thank you VERY much.
"I was almost all the way through the "Meet The Liars" article before I figured out what was up"
Yeah, the 'War on Terror' and 'Support the Troops' articles are really good as well. I haven't read most of the rest, though the Fox News article at the bottom has a link to a video clip of the time O'Reilly chewed out Jeremy Glick on the air for his view of the war on terror. A must see.
Anyone else here who won forty-eight percent of the popular vote wanna raise your hands? Anyone? Thank you VERY much.
You're a loose cannon, George, a loose cannon president cop. You have 48 hours to fix Iraq, or I'll have your badge.
In case you missed it...
Down with Bush! Up with Badger-Kerry!
OT but who's on first?
LIVING IN OBLIVION: As the administration's national security apparatus falls into disarray, National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice seems oblivious to the problems. Yesterday Rice insisted Bush "will one day rank alongside such towering pillars of 20th century statecraft as President Franklin D. Roosevelt and British Prime Minister Winston Churchill." The comparison to FDR and Churchill – who forged strong international alliances – stands in stark contrast to Bush's "go-it-alone approach to diplomacy that has strained U.S. alliances and divided world opinion rather than uniting it." Sen. Richard Lugar (R-IN) acknowledged yesterday that, after three-and-a-half years of Bush statecraft, around the world, "Not many people agree with us or like us or, for that matter, are prepared to work with us."
i mispelled churchill.
why does condaleezza rice still have her job?
Bush Statecraft???
I always say "The Roman Catholic Church - the second most dangerous cult in the world", and people invariably ask: "Oh yeah, what's the first?"
Well, we could argue about that THROUGH THE NIGHT AND THROUGH THE DAY, but it is indisputable that the Catholic's come in second.
COULD THIS BE TRUE????? FROM THE CAPITOL HILL BLUE:
Bush's Erratic Behavior Worries White House Aides
By DOUG THOMPSON
Publisher, Capitol Hill Blue
Jun 4, 2004, 06:15
President George W. Bush’s increasingly erratic behavior and wide mood swings has the halls of the West Wing buzzing lately as aides privately express growing concern over their leader’s state of mind.
In meetings with top aides and administration officials, the President goes from quoting the Bible in one breath to obscene tantrums against the media, Democrats and others that he classifies as “enemies of the state.”
Worried White House aides paint a portrait of a man on the edge, increasingly wary of those who disagree with him and paranoid of a public that no longer trusts his policies in Iraq or at home.
“It reminds me of the Nixon days,” says a longtime GOP political consultant with contacts in the White House. “Everybody is an enemy; everybody is out to get him. That’s the mood over there.”
In interviews with a number of White House staffers who were willing to talk off the record, a picture of an administration under siege has emerged, led by a man who declares his decisions to be “God’s will” and then tells aides to “fuck over” anyone they consider to be an opponent of the administration.
“We’re at war, there’s no doubt about it. What I don’t know anymore is just who the enemy might be,” says one troubled White House aide. “We seem to spend more time trying to destroy John Kerry than al Qaeda and our enemies list just keeps growing and growing.”
Aides say the President gets “hung up on minor details,” micromanaging to the extreme while ignoring the bigger picture. He will spend hours personally reviewing and approving every attack ad against his Democratic opponent and then kiss off a meeting on economic issues.
“This is what is killing us on Iraq,” one aide says. “We lost focus. The President got hung up on the weapons of mass destruction and an unproven link to al Qaeda. We could have found other justifiable reasons for the war but the President insisted the focus stay on those two, tenuous items.”
Aides who raise questions quickly find themselves shut out of access to the President or other top advisors. Among top officials, Bush’s inner circle is shrinking. Secretary of State Colin Powell has fallen out of favor because of his growing doubts about the administration’s war against Iraq.
The President's abrupt dismissal of CIA Directory George Tenet Wednesday night is, aides say, an example of how he works.
"Tenet wanted to quit last year but the President got his back up and wouldn't hear of it," says an aide. "That would have been the opportune time to make a change, not in the middle of an election campaign but when the director challenged the President during the meeting Wednesday, the President cut him off by saying 'that's it George. I cannot abide disloyalty. I want your resignation and I want it now."
Tenet was al
-CONTINUED-
Tenet was allowed to resign "voluntarily" and Bush informed his shocked staff of the decision Thursday morning. One aide says the President actually described the decision as "God's will."
God may also be the reason Attorney General John Ashcroft, the administration’s lightning rod because of his questionable actions that critics argue threatens freedoms granted by the Constitution, remains part of the power elite. West Wing staffers call Bush and Ashcroft “the Blues Brothers” because “they’re on a mission from God.”
“The Attorney General is tight with the President because of religion,” says one aide. “They both believe any action is justifiable in the name of God.”
But the President who says he rules at the behest of God can also tongue-lash those he perceives as disloyal, calling them “fucking assholes” in front of other staff, berating one cabinet official in front of others and labeling anyone who disagrees with him “unpatriotic” or “anti-American.”
“The mood here is that we’re under siege, there’s no doubt about it,” says one troubled aide who admits he is looking for work elsewhere. “In this administration, you don’t have to wear a turban or speak Farsi to be an enemy of the United States. All you have to do is disagree with the President.”
The White House did not respond to requests for comment on the record.
Link to above Capitol Hill Blue article:
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/
a...icle_4636.shtml
IF THE ABOVE ARTICLE IS TRUE:
How can we have a President who is one "BOO!" away from a nervous breakdown?
How can we have a Vice President who is one "BOO!" away from a massive heart attack?
How can Bush's family allow him to continue a reelection campaign that will destroy him?
How can the USA not be told before the election that one of their candidates is on the verge of literally going nuts and maybe you shouldn't vote for him?
How does the Republican party justify running this kind of candidate for President of the United States?
What does this say about Bush's capabilities to continue running this country?
The questions can go on and on - IF THE ABOVE ARTICLE IS TRUE. (A BIG "IF".)
Atrios - your thoughts, or can you find out if this is true?????
spirituasantu...spirituasantu...all you wopsa, get offa the lawn
let's see, when the pope dies a few purebreds go into some very ornate back room to elect a new one. this new fellow, assuming he doesn't proffer the idea that the church is too wealthy and thus dies from poisoned warm milk on the first night of his first day on the job (as has happened in my lifetime), is then given the red phone by which gawd speaks to his minion who then advises us how to act and what to think. this vaguely baroque and overly piquant system is reminiscent of the american political process as refined by the good opus dei folks that have bestowed tony scalia upon us. who then begat w...
oh yeah, i really believe in that horsebleep. (and the tooth fairy and the easter bunny and santa claus too)
the pope should STFU.
Fuck the Pope.
Long ago, in a country I'm lately ashamed to call mine, several writers assembled a garage band, toured, and wrote about it for Playboy, which I normally only read for the pictures.
One of the musicians - it might have been Stephen King, but it probably wasn't - was throwing up in the bathroom before a performance, and was cheered by this grafitti:
Dogs fuck the Pope
No fault of mine
I suspect that only someone raised as a Catholic would actually find that funny. I repeat it only because I have the feeling that somebody else may once have enjoyed it.
OT, but interesting:
Bush's Erratic Behavior Worries White House Aides
"Tenet wanted to quit last year but the President got his back up and wouldn't hear of it," says an aide. "That would have been the opportune time to make a change, not in the middle of an election campaign but when the director challenged the President during the meeting Wednesday, the President cut him off by saying 'that's it George. I cannot abide disloyalty. I want your resignation and I want it now." Tenet was allowed to resign "voluntarily" and Bush informed his shocked staff of the decision Thursday morning. One aide says the President actually described the decision as "God's will." (...)West Wing staffers call Bush and Ashcroft “the Blues Brothers” because “they’re on a mission from God.”
I picture Bush going in for a routine photo op with Papa, and he get his ass handed to him in the most candid of terms from a man who sacrificed through the times that George was drunk through. I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that.
But of course, in public, we get this tripe.
Mars, my little bitches!
OT:
Why does everyone hate America?
Because the DHS has begun to treat journalists from foreign countries with extra suspicion, possibly in this case worse than journos of any stripe are treated by any other respectable country.
To add insult to injury (from the concluding para): 'During my surreal interlude at LAX, I told the officer taking my fingerprints that I would be writing about it all. "No doubt," he snorted. "And anything you'll write won't be the truth."'
Eurgh.
bolo - thanks for the link! That website is a hoot, and a keeper. Lots of good info in it, too. There were one or two of the "liars" that I wasn't familiar with, so I learned something, too.
My day is not complete without a couple o' inches of Atrios's joint in my mouth.
Why do American solderies hate American soldiers?
http://tinyurl.com/2bjlm
The thing that will truly piss me off this weekend, is that the GOP will praise Reagan and worship Bush, and Eisenhower, 1000 times the man either of them were, is even this weekend, just an afterthought.
But then, IKE took responsibility for errors and failures, unlike the Chimp.
*sighs*
Some of you sound just like our old trolling friend America's Memory, with your demands that everyone be whiter than white. And just like him, it's a sign of political immaturity. Sooner or later you are going to have to grow up and face the facts that the world is fucked up because people are just too fucked up for it to be any other way.
Religion is just another illustration of this... I am a hard ass atheist. There is no God, or Gods, or supernatural powers in the universe. It all operates via what the laws of physics allow, and nothing else. But human beings have always, and probably will always choose to believe in fairies and gods and magic stones and Republican Economics. They believe because they need to. And once they believe, they are more often than not beyond the reach of logic... Think of all those people who will vote for Bush even if he turns out to be the Antichrist. See what I mean? And here you all are, whinging about the damage that the Catholic Church has done. Yup, I agree... it's a shitty organisation at times. Does some good too (I used to work on charity fundraising, so I know of what I speak, but that's not important here). Think you are going to persuade any Catholics of any of that, though? Think of our lovely blog-babylon Melanie when you answer that. Or... how many of you are able to accept what goodness the Pope has gifted you for once?
Come on, be rational. Italy has a population 70% against the war... you saw the demonstrations. The Church, which also carries (whether you like it or not) enormous influence in Italy, has just slapped Bush down. So what? Well, so Bush's Coallition Of The Billing only has 4 real members left, the UK, Australia, Poland... and Italy. The more pressure placed on Berlusconi the better, because it drives him further away from Bush internationally, because of his own concerns sure, but it damages Bush back home in America, as even the international ass kissers start to abandon him. There's no point in whinging Nader-ish style and demanding the whole thing change or else... Welcome to the real world, where assholes exist on every street corner, in all styles of assholery. Hardly any Catholic is going to give up their faith because you bring up the child abuse scandals... Certainly no Italian is going to listen to you bash the Pope for things done in America. Harsh, but that's the way it is. However... you could at least embrace the Pope in condemning Bush now, and use the prejudices of Catholics to help up the pressure on the greater evil of Bush. If you think that the modern Church's abuses are worse than the BushCo Religion then fair enough, can't argue with a calculation like that. But just like having to vote for Kerry over Bush as the lesser of two evils, time to take some of our own medicine and accept that supporting the Pope for calling Dubya out should be applauded too. Because personally I believe Bush has damaged far more innocents than the Pope.
You can'
.....
You can't choose which weapons you get in this world: All you can do is use every one that comes your way to lash out with as hard as you can. Just like my vote Thursday for candidates in the EU Election will, out of necessity, be against Labour, rather than for anything really. I don't have the money to run, or the resources to make any difference, but I can still act, even if not perfectly. Or I can sit at home and complain about the lack of purity of all the other candidates... but then we get the greater evil. It's about rewarding good behaviour, remember? It's all we can do in this world, small steps towards a slightly better world... yes, fuck the Pope. But fuck him tactically. We can use him at this moment in time. So let's use him. And make the world just that teeny bit better, by upping the pressure on Bush just that little bit more.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/
S...1232050,00.html
Agreed, AN.
OT from a previous thread (and x-posted)...
Holden, et al - I'm going to be snarky and not tell you what Dohiyi Mir means, but I'll give you a hint.
"Yer fer us or yer agin us. Ya talk bad bout prezznit ya give aid and comfort to the enemy. You are one a them al-quedas and ya hate freedom." ... Bush just awarded the Pope -- the anti-invasion enemy-of-freedom Pope -- the U.S. MEDAL OF FREEDOM!
Well, at least prezznit didn't challange the pontiff to go mano-a-mano or dare him to lick Saddam's revolver. "Got it rite here in muh pokkit, Pope-a-dope."
And this is something I was wondering while watching his speech today -- did Bush learn to over-enunciate, like he's gumming oatmeal, when he was drunk all the time and trying to pass for sober? Is he *trying* to appear preposterous? Goin' for the sympathy votin' block?
But the thing about the Medal of Freedom -- Bush seems to automatically get a pass on making even minimal sense. He's treated like a benignly senile uncle, who can make bizarre claims -- like when he said Saddam wouldn't let the inspectors in -- when they were already 'in' and cooperating. Or when he casually mentioned that WMD had been found -- referring to the sterile mobile lab months after its status as a bio-lab was debunked -- and scores of other bloopers, all without people really noticing that he's not right in the head. Will we get to see a Chimpy McFlightsuit booper reel on Animal Planet soon, I hope?
Does the general lack of concern over emperor George's lack of regalia reveal that on some level people understand that Bush is just a shill going through the motions? If he blows his lines -- no biggie; the amphetamines probably just tweaked his bone-phone. He can temporize for up to five minutes with his backlog of Manichean homilies.
The pope he be just dreamy.
TheaLogie, re: Italian peace signs
I agree with you -- they are cool. I came back from a trip to Italy recently, and they are all over the place -- larger cities like Milan; small fishing villages; Florence, Vicenza -- there were streets with well over 10 flags hanging off of windows and flagpoles and balconies.
And conveniently, they were available in street markets to take back to the U.S. Now I've got one hanging off my window, and it doubles as a gay rights banner, too. Hurray!
OT
Reagan near death.
Family by his side.
Could be hours.
Wait for the onslaught.
Anonymous,
the undead can't be killed.
J.T.
Reagan near death.
Family by his side.
Could be hours.
If this happens, Karl Rove will cry -
not due to sorrow over Reagan, but it will wipe out Bush's Normandy coverage.
How many divisions does the Pope have?
Huh? How many?
Cause if he's got any, we could probably use his help in Iraq about now.
Ringo,
I think it's because 35% of the population should be punished because their parents committed an unspeakable act of stupidity by not practicing safe sex, myself.
These people believed every scurrilous rumor about Clinton as gospel, but then when confronted with the overwhelming evidence that Flightsuit boy is casually a bigger liar than Clinton could be if he made a major effort to do so, they go into a state of catatonic denial.
As for Rocket Ronnie, I look forward to the opportunity to piss on his grave.
Watch out as the Reagasm finally arrives and the shitbrained twits who call themselves "Conservatives" go into a frenzy of grief that has not been seen since Reagan's soulmate, the Ayatollah Khomeini, kicked the bucket making the world a better place.
I saw this way upthread and I had to laugh.
"That's all well and good but this is 2004 and the last time I checked there wasn't a Anglo Saxon Protestant elite and a massive wave of working-class Catholic immigration."
Last time I checked there was a WASP elite with one big WASP in the White House and a massive wave of Catholic Mexican working class immigration.
I have seen a lot of really bilious anti- catholic shit in this thread. I'll bet that most of comes from tight ass WASP bigots. The thing about Catholics is that they come from relatively identifiable ethinic groups. So it is often hard to distinguish between Anti- Catholic statements and racist staments. As a member of a traditional Catholic ethnic group I just have to say Fuck all you WASPs, fuck you right in the ear. So there.
Lisa.... you sound suspiciously like a nativist in the 19th century that warned about the evils of the "popery".
I like popery. It makes my house smell nice.
.
For the record, the pope did not "bring down the Soviet Union." Economic hardship brought on by a costly arms race, suppression of dissent, and a long, costly war with the US-backed Taliban (remember them)in Afghanistan lead to the break-up. I will give the pope credit for contributing to overpopulation and providing a protection racket for child molesters...credit where credit is due, ya know!
Yea the pope invented overpopulation and child molestation. Yea no other institution shields child molesters and promotes overpopulation. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.
"Yea the pope invented overpopulation and child molestation. Yea no other institution shields child molesters and promotes overpopulation. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.
Anonymous"
Of course other institutions shield child molesters and promote overpopulation, but the RCC and the Pope consider their institution the one true faith, and no other faith has this truth. And apparently GOD ALMIGHTY HIMSELF speaks through the Pope.
How on earth could an institution with that kind of connection, with an all-merciful, all-loving god speaking to the popes ever EVER make the egregious blunders, people-wounding and people-killing mistakes that this institution has over the last 2000 years????
Of course other institutions shield child molesters and promote overpopulation, but the RCC and the Pope consider their institution the one true faith, and no other faith has this truth. And apparently GOD ALMIGHTY HIMSELF speaks through the Pope.
Annnnnnd...of course there are no other "parties of God" so to speak, no other fantastically destructive wierdos who speak for God...
so I wonder if aWol asked him why the bears are Catholic and if it's true that he shits in the woods
The thing about Catholics is that they come from relatively identifiable ethinic groups. So it is often hard to distinguish between Anti- Catholic statements and racist staments.
So I'm racist if I'm in favor of gay marriage and pro-choice on abortion?
SWR-hold on, that is definitely Sessions' logic, but would you deny the antiCatholicism of the KKKK?
SWR-hold on, that is definitely Sessions' logic, but would you deny the antiCatholicism of the KKKK?
Actually that proves my point. The KKK in the 1920s was anti-Catholic.
Most white supremicist groups and anti-immgrant groups have no problems with Catholics anymore.
In fact, you'll find a lot of Italian, Polish, Irish Catholics in nativist and white supremicist groups.
Is Regan really fading? oh, boy, get ready. Now we'll really have to redesign the dime. And the Republican convention in NY can be turned into a Ronnie-rememberance fest.
Oh, and fuck the pope.
ummm, Chick. And Van Impe. And Identity. And a few others, all of them Christian.
ummm, Chick. And Van Impe. And Identity. And a few others, all of them Christian.
Chick is a fringe character. In the 1920s, the Klan would draw hundreds of thousands of people (and outside of the South).
Right now, right-wing WASPs have zero problems with Catholics. Look at the alliance between mainstream Protestant Evangelicals, right wing Jews, and Catholics to support Mel Gibson.
"catholics to support Gibson"-um, Gibson is a fringe Catholic. And the twenties was an unequalled period of Klan activity.
"catholics to support Gibson"-um, Gibson is a fringe Catholic. And the twenties was an unequalled period of Klan activity.
You can find some exotic sects of right-wing protestants who hate Catholics.
But look at what these same groups say about Episcopalians. Are you going to use "God Hates Fags" and their Episcopalian bashing signs to prove that there's a "racist" movement against rich Anglo Saxons.
The above poster was trying to imply that I'm a racist WASP (and I'm not a WASP) because I'm bashing the Catholic church's stance on birth control and gay marriage, that it somehow implicates me in some kind of nativist sentiment against Mexicans.
Boy, read this thread. You can't tell me anti-Catholicism isn't alive and well. I've read somewhere that anti-Catholicism is the last socially acceptable prejudice. This thread doesn't do anything to disprove that.
Look, 99.99999% of all Catholics are just as disgusted and repulsed and scandalized and furious at the whole horrendous child-abuse scandal as anyone else is. We're all disgusted and furious with the bishops who didn't do a damn thing to fix it, and even worse, protected the monsters who did it and keep on stonewalling, and yes, as far as we're concerned, they've blown whatever moral authority they ever had. (And yes, they will go to hell.) Most of our parish priests are even more appalled and furious, and they'll say so, in public. But alas, the mere rank & file, all fifty million or however many of us we are, we don't make the headlines. It's the heirarchy and the bastards who make the papers. And alas, the church isn't a democracy; we can't vote 'em out. Would that we could, but we can't.
So if you've got to exercise your prejudices, at least aim them accurately, will ya?
So if you've got to exercise your prejudices, at least aim them accurately, will ya?
You're dodging the issue. The Catholic hierachy has come out against extending civil liberties (gay marriage) and I'm bashing them because of that.
They've also come out quite strongly against pro-choice politicians like John Kerry and I'm bashing them because of that.
Like any cult, the Catholic church is obsessed with controlling the sexuality of its members, with keeping the power that comes from sublimating sexual repression into its ritual.
The child abuse scandal's a side issue. But the pedophile priests weren't prosecuted because the church thought sexual control more important than locking up child abusers.
SWR, good for you, but you are joining the rightists as surely as a Naderite or a registered Republican Dean critic. The origin of this thread was the Pope, awful as he is, bashing Bush. The official Rightist position was kneejerk against the Pontiff.
SWR, good for you, but you are joining the rightists as surely as a Naderite or a registered Republican Dean critic. The origin of this thread was the Pope, awful as he is, bashing Bush.
I'm also highly critical of the way the Israelis treat the Palestinians.
The National Alliance will come to anti-war rallies in Seattle with anti-Israel signs.
Does that mean I should approve of the National Alliance? Or even hold off from attacking them?
The official Rightist position was kneejerk against the Pontiff.
Not about their positions on gay marriage and abortion.
Without the Catholic church, the anti-abortion movement in the US would have probably died an ignominious death on the wacko redneck fringes back in the 1980s.
SWR,
Do you go there every Sunday?
Do you give them money, time, the credibility that comes from claiming large numbers of members?
If you don't like what the catholics do, vote with your feet.
If you don't like what the catholics do, vote with your feet.
Hmm. So if I don't like Bin Laden or Islamism I should just "vote with my feet" and not go into a mosque?
See how different that sounds?
OK. The Catholic church isn't blowing up buildings in New York, but they are killing people in Africa with their birth control policies. They are trying to limit the extension of civil liberties *for non-Catholics* in the United States with their gay marriage and abortion policies.
And now they're trying to mess with the presidential election by threatening to deny John Kerry communion.
I wish he'd vote with his feet.
I wish he would, too.
Even though I no longer believe in church dogma, I still am sensitive to blatant attacks on the Catholic church. These has been too long a history of racisim connected with anti-catholic sentiment. Is there even one African country that is majority Catholic? Blaming Africa's AIDS problems on the Catholic church's stance on birth control totally igornes the US's own culpablitiy in this area. The US exertes far more influence in Africa. Blaming this on the Catholic church is just thinly veiled knee jerk anti-Catholic bile.
The worlds major population problems are not happening in catholic countries.
If you want to get an idea of the way the catholic church works, wrapped up in a fictional tale, read:
Tom Robbins "Another Raodside Attraction"
Excuse me, anonymous -- ever heard of South America?
Sorry, I meant roadside..
I too am an ex-Catholic, and while I am sensitive to outright slander (it offends me), I have seen the warts and believe they need to be exposed.
These has been too long a history of racisim connected with anti-catholic sentiment.
Racism against Irish Catholics? Don't you mean "xenaphobia." Are Irish Catholics the same color as WASPs.
There is no history of "racism" being associated with anti-catholocism. Many people on the anti-immigrant/anti-mexican right are Catholics. (eg Pat Buchanan)
Bill O'Reilly:
Culero, pendejo y marica. A Bill se le ensucian los calzones cuando me escucha. Culero de mierda Bill, agarra huevos y demonos pija. El Pichi
Bill O'Reilly:
Culero, pendejo y marica. A Bill se le ensucian los calzones cuando me escucha. Culero de mierda Bill, agarra huevos y demonos pija. El Pichi
Yea I guess best thing for South America would be to fund more right wing death squads to murder more Catholic clurgy like in the old days. Like the South American population problem is so huge. Since when did racism have to come from people of different color. Talk about splitting semenatic hairs. Intolerance and bigotry are intolerance and bigotry.
It seems the article has changed since this thread was opened. The above thread makes mention of the Pope's criticisms of Bush... but the article taht's now at that link only talks about abortion, same-sex marriage, etc... nothing at all about any disagreement with Bush anywhere in it.
Boy, read this thread. You can't tell me anti-Catholicism isn't alive and well.
To say that anti-Papacy speech is equivalent to anti-Cathlic speech is equivalent to saying that anti-Bush is anti-American.
Many people disagree with the pope's hate-spewing and molestation-abetting behavior. This does not necessarily mean those people have some sort of issue with Catholics in general.
Even though I no longer believe in church dogma, I still am sensitive to blatant attacks on the Catholic church. These has been too long a history of racisim connected with anti-catholic sentiment. .......
Blaming this on the Catholic church is just thinly veiled knee jerk anti-Catholic bile.
Where to begin? First, the Pope, any Pope is not the Catholic Church. The whole of the people of the Catholic Church are the church. It's entirely possible, even essential, for Catholics to disagree loudly with what any particular pope says or does. According to Catholic teachings Peter was the first pope, the only one appointed by Jesus himself. Read what Paul has got to say about him in the alleged letters. And you can find a long line of critical commentary on popes all through the history of the church, lots of it from canonized saints. And that's not even getting into some of the things done to the bones of popes by their successors.
The U.S. government's policies and practices on contraception are directly related to Republican pandering to the Catholic hierachy and right wing protestants. Do you think that any of the people who make these policies really believe that contraception is a sin? That they care a drop of spit about if people are getting a bit of rumpy pumpy outside of holy wedlock? If so why don't they practice what they preach. Preaching abstinance to the military, directly under their control, would make an interesting experiment.
Don't give me that line about anti-Catholicism. I was a Catholic until last year and almost my entire family remains Catholic.
kei & yuri, sister of ye & Adam 4-4-2
Thanks for trying. Your voices were drown in a sea of hate like I would never expect from my fellow lefties.
Whatever happen to religious tolerance? I believe in it still, it's a shame so few others do. You won't hear me ranting about Protestants and Atheists. Isn't there already enough hate in the world without what I've read above?
I know I haven't commented here in a long time. It was because of the Anti-Catholic threads were way too common for a Catholic Democrat, like my self to want to subject myself to. I'm disappointed that it continues.
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