I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
"if democrats take his money, they will have to answer for his opinions."
his opinions about what? the 9/11 attacks? its not like he came out in favor of them. torture and abuse of prisoners? he's against it as far as i can tell. good. so am i. take his money.
The prisoners who were murdered are just as dead as the 9/11 victims. What's the problem with the comparison?
Exxxxcellennnt. Of course, we were already comparing Bush to Hitler, and it's not as if NeoNazis like Wolfowitz are bad at painting rhetorical pictures or making excuses, so answering for Moon's enthusiastic defenswe of haShoah (ironically similar to the Original Nazi's, ie payback for Jesus), will be a piece of cake after "convincing" people that a poor third-world sandpit without working toilets and bombed on a daily basis was on the verge of World Conquest...
OK, I am 38 years old and this is just amazing to me, that for the last 20 some years Moon has been a major sponsor of the right, and he/they get(s) away with it!!!
Can you imagine if Dems were funded by a weird cult leader who hates Christianity and does business with North Korea?
Why do these fuckers get away with it, over and over and over?
Why do these fuckers get away with it, over and over and over?
To borrow a line from the late, great Sam Kinison, "Could it be . . . oh, I don't know . . . the MONEY!!!"
By the way, going by "eye for an eye", shouldn't payback for Jesus mean the death of any one (1) thirtysomething male Jew (suppress Friends jokes...now)? So maybe Gillespie only has to explain six million minus one. Unless people get sidetracked by the inhuman horror of his justifying mass murder thing. People are so sensitive...
Coldcut: we would go a step further, because IX/XI was a thing done to us by monsters. And there are monsters in the world and they do or try to do things to us, that's a given, that's not going to change and other than prevention we certainly can't change that. But Abu Ghraib was us allowing ourselves to become monsters, which is fundamentally different regardless of the numbers. Cf the "conquer a city but lose your soul" thing.
Moon wants to ammend the Constitution of the United States of America to enforce sexual purity? What in sam hell does that mean?
Backslider,
It means you have to wipe yourself with the holy handkerchief before and after sex.
Click the homepage link.
Dear Ed,
I read the transcript of Soros' comments, then I read Gillespie's response. At the time I thought, "Wow, Gillespie is really making stuff up. Soros _never_ equated the 3000 dead from the 9/11 attacks with the torture at Abu Ghraib." I thought it was rather desperate of Gillespie, but then, he sees his job as doing whatever it takes to get his guy elected, even if that means making stuff up.
Ed, did you read the transcripts? Did you read all of Soros' comments? I think that you must not have. Please, at your first opportunity, read the complete set of statements. I don't think you'll find that Soros equated the Iraqi prisoner torture with the 9/11 deaths.
Sincerely,
Jeff Boatright
Backslider,
Father will tell you in due time. Since you asked, you obviously must be conflicted here and unsure of your "sexual purity status". If you need a role model I suggest Ricky (Ilovejennabush) Vandal.
StuTheSheep,
Ya know, you'd reckon them in the GOP with a little common sense, upon hearing about the whole "holy hankie" thing, would turn to Moon and say, "Are you fuckin' goofy or what?" Or at least do it after the check cleared...
Backslider, actually, Moon wants to to fuck a woman chosen by him in white kind of handkerchief-like robes, and with a picture of him in view.
StuTheSheep,
Ya know, you'd reckon them in the GOP with a little common sense, upon hearing about the whole "holy hankie" thing, would turn to Moon and say, "Are you fuckin' goofy or what?" Or at least do it after the check cleared...
Be careful of oxymorons...
Why does Moon get away with it? Easy:
IOKIYAR. Republicans are allowed to get away with things. Democrats aren't alloewd to even look cross or we're shown to be the evil evil 'librul America-haters' we're supposed to be.
Please, someone euthanize me, I'm not sure I want to live in an America like this.
kei & yuri,
Okay, I don't mind the picture, really. Hell, it can't be any more disconcerting than the Keith Richards and Three Stooges posters I have looming over my bed. The wearing of white's not an issue, either. I'm sure I can work that into my vast set of kinks somewhere.
I'm forsquare against someone picking a woman for me, though. I won't let my own dear mother do it, so I sure as hell ain't letting some looney-toons preacher pick a love monkey for this brown-eyed boy.
Um, what does the last line in the chart (about Pres Taft) mean? Some kind of in joke?
StuTheSheep,
Well, I'm an idealistic sort of lad. It grates against my sense of logic to assume a whole ideology is goofier than a room full of monkeys on helium...despite all the evidence I'm bombarded with daily.
i was roseanne rosannadanna
I. Gillespie wants any receiver of any political money to be answerable to any and all statements of any and all donors.
II. RNC (among other rightists) receives more from Moon than DNC does from Soros.
III. Moon naggingly told "Jews" (presumably all of them) that they were to blame for the Holocaust, which was only fair because they killed Baby White Jesus, and which is confusing because Moon also says that he is Jesus. And Buddha. And a few others.
IV. So, surely Gillespie will soon explain Moon's revelations or give back the money.
V. It is hard to sit with these monkies flying out of my bum.
Click on the check box to find out about Taft.
Militant Agnostic-oh, no, never. Moon gave a speech claiming to have talked with a number of historical figures, all of whom endorsed him. Including the evil ones, who said they were sorry and oh by the way convert to Moonism.
Its the Taft endorsement that I'm most impressed with.
It's off topic, but this makes me so mad.
Catholic U. Won't Recognize NAACP Chapter
http://tinyurl.com/3bf2c
"The president of the NAACP is criticizing a decision by Catholic University of America not to recognize a chapter of the civil rights group on campus. "It is outright discrimination and intolerance all rolled into one," NAACP President Kweisi Mfume said Friday, just outside the campus and surrounded by about 20 activists and student chapter leaders from other universities.
....
School administrators also raised concern about the group's support of the April 25 "March for Women's Lives," an abortion rights rally. Nakas said student groups are not allowed to advocate positions that are contrary to the teachings of the church, which opposes abortion. But he said that was not the main reason for rejecting the NAACP chapter."
I'm waiting for the College Republicans to be banned for their support of the death penalty. I'm sure I won't have to wait long.
Jesus, these people just have no shame... Can anybody figure out why sensible conservatives aren't calling them on this excrement?
OT and thanx to Finrod at dKOS
one more story for incognito to rage about...
Reuters(!) article stating gay marriage is anti-family values
click on link under HOMEPAGE
So you are ok with getting funding from someone who thinks the Abu Ghraib incidents are equivalent to 9/11? I'm not surprised; there was never a negative word about race hustler and anti-semite Al Sharpton here either.
sensible conservatives ???
BWWWWWWWAAAAAAAA BWWWWAAAAAAAA BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Totally off-topic, but does anyone here know the name of the song that plays at the end of the Fahrenheit 9/11 trailer?
God talks to Moon, God does not talk to Soros.
Therefore, Moon is okay.
Question - Ten years after song. Can't remember the name.
sensible conservative? Name one----
Bigger question should be----When are real Americans going to stop letting this new bread of conservative republican run things?
Probably till they fuck things up so bad, they are the only ones left.
Leftist wimps will never stand up.
Uh, somebody put Maria in my name spot. Meant to say "Ten Years After" is the group/artist.
So you are ok with getting funding from someone who thinks the Abu Ghraib incidents are equivalent to 9/11? I'm not surprised; there was never a negative word about race hustler and anti-semite Al Sharpton here either.
He never said they were equivalent. Comparison does not always belie equivalence. He was pointing out that we squandered the goodwill and support post-9/11 and now have become less the victim and more the culprit.
Media bias? As John G well knows, nobody wants to talk about the good wacko reverend. A quick Google News search:
George Soros: 467 results.
Rev. Moon or Reverend Moon or Sun Yung Moon or Moon and Unification Church: 19 results.
You can't argue with results like that.
(I tried to spread the results for Moon as wide as possible; if anybody can think of possible combos I left out, give it a try.)
I'm not surprised; there was never a negative word about race hustler and anti-semite Al Sharpton here either.
Fuck you asshole, we distinctly remember attacking Sharpton as a fucking joke and as an insult to Black people, vastly less worthy than say Michael or Freeman Dyson or Julian Bond.
Seriously...only in America could someone like Moon be so under the radar like that.
OT: Reagan croaked.
chris/tx, Question, the song in question is I'd Love to Change the World. Good tune.
i'd love to change the world by ten years after. like, dig those groovy homophobic lyrics, baby.
Everywhere is freaks and hairies
Dykes and fairies, tell me where is sanity
Tax the rich, feed the poor
Till there are no rich no more
I'd love to change the world
But I don't know what to do
So I'll leave it up to you
Population keeps on breeding
Nation bleeding, still more feeding economy
Life is funny, skies are sunny
Bees make honey, who needs money, Monopoly
I'd love to change the world
But I don't know what to do
So I'll leave it up to you
World pollution, there's no solution
Institution, electrocution
Just black and white, rich or poor
Them and us, stop the war
I'd love to change the world
But I don't know what to do
So I'll leave it up to you
Thanks sdf, TYA was one of my favorite groups in their time.
OH-where? Are you "reading between the lines"?
Reuters, Cnn, Yahoo and Venerable are silent. Old Hat, where? Did we let the old Pinochet get away without an impeachment? Is there posthumous impeachment?
Hey James Robertson,
So, are you comfortable with being funded by this bizarro from outer space?
Bringing up Moon reminded me of the other right wing fucktards. Gingrich was on Fox News last night comparing Flightsuit to Abraham Lincoln. The smirk on his face indicated that even he didn't believe the shit flowing out of his pie hole. The only thing I can find in common between Lincoln and Georie Boy is their ability to piss off millions of Democrats.
You never saw anyone attacking Sharpton in these pages? Good gravy, son, do pay attention. Ya know, now that I think of it, I don't think I've ever heard a conservative condemn David Duke. May've happened, but since I don't see it constantly, I must assume it never happened.
Wingnut logic, thank you very much.
Anyhow, reading Soros's statement, I can see how some say he's comparing 9/11 to Grahib, but I don't think that's what he's getting at. I think what he's saying is here's these two horrid events being played out on the world stage and, my, but ain't it funny what difference three years makes in public perception.
Just my take on it, anyway.
On the incredible media neglect of Moon:
Note that one of the few people who tracked Moon intensively, congressional investigator Robert Boettcher, died in 1984 in an unexplained fall from his apartment in New York.
Could have been suicide, but I guess our journalists don't want to take any chances!
Which is not to negate other reasons for the media's lack of curiosity:
the unwillingness of Dems to feed them stories (like the RNC does) or create a "media event" involving Moon
the usual media inertia and short-term focus
lack of encouragement or active discouragement from editors
Old Hat, please feel free to elaborate and/or link.
Reagan's dead, btw. ABC just broke it. CNN and MSNBC haven't caught up yet.
Kei & Uri and Backslider - Actually, the holy handkerchief is what you are supposed to cleanup with after your first round of matrimonial sex. Then your supposed to hang it on your wall as a momento. I'm not kidding.
Read it for yourself:
(4) Care of the Holy Handkerchief
After the act of love, both spouses should wipe their sexual areas with the Holy Handkerchief. Hang the handkerchief to dry naturally and keep them eternally. They must be kept individually labeled and should never be laundered or mixed up.
Good riddance.
First!
OT: Man, I am so glad Reagan didn't hang on until October so those slimy bastards could use his death for political gain ...
Let's hope the family and friends are allowed to grieve as they see fit - publicly or privately.
Expect clips of his Nooner-penned D-Day speech ad nauseam, and expect, in place of Operation Overlord, Nooner Overload.
Just saw it scroll by at the bottom of the screen on ESPN (waiting for Smarty to run at Belmont); Reagan died. Look for Rove to crank it up.
Thanks for the info about Pres Taft: I had no idea. I wonder if all the dead prezes have adopted the holy handkerchief in the afterlife?
"I wonder if all the dead prezes have adopted the holy handkerchief in the afterlife?"
I wonder if Reagan is doing right now.
This just in: Ronald Reagan has died. No, really. Turn on CNN.
"Procedure of the 3-Day Ceremony"
the description of the procedure is eerily similiar to *k to the motherfucking y's* link yesterday to the guy who gives explicit instructions on how to fuck a dolphin.
particularly this part:
"If insertion is not possible because the husband does not have an erection, the wife must take her husband's sexual organ in her hand and guide it into her sexual part in order to successfully do the ceremony."
all you have to do is replace "wife" with "dolphin" and "hand" with "flipper."
All the pre-prepared biographies now showing (as the news networks finally go into action) are mentioning Iran-Contra and the Latin American misadventures. It reminds us how time and his illness has probably smoothed out the collective memory of how divisive he was: something that's not likely to be the case with Margaret Thatcher.
(I saw Reagan in the flesh once, in 1993, just before he retired from public life. Even then, he was more coherent than the current occupant of the White House.)
OLD HAT IS THE MOTHERFUCKING MAN.
Breaking news of Reagan's coming to grief before CNN.
Also, this does still qualify as an "October Surprise" considering the way this will be played, so congrats to whoever predicted that.
And best wishes to the millions who lost loved ones to his murderous policies, who will breathe a sigh of relief now that he is finally dead.
Why do we care about the American Fascist Party, also known as Republican party? The only thing to know is that a full process of de-Bushification will have to be done next January. Better plan to extend Gitmo, because there are a lot of hacks and pundits that need a vacation there.
This table should have a third column for Richard Mellon Scaife.
Right wing pundits are such hypocrites.
OT
Reagan is dead. NPR has just announced.
I can't wait to see if Bush tries to use this somehow---and what the reaction will be from Nancy and Ron Jr.
Yeah, Reagan just went over to the Other Side. Following in the footsteps of all those victims of his beloved Contras.
Guess Macro was instructed by Caligula to use the pillow. The timing is too good.
Later.
No, I won't turn on CNN or any of the other Wurlitzer outlets. Even though "everyone" says Reagan was oh-so-likeable, I never liked him, not once. Not that I was ever eager for him to die or anything, he was 93 years old. I just never liked him, and no amount of hagiography will make me like him. And hagiography will be the order of the day, for days to come. Look for Rove to gobble some glory for the Boy Prince. Look for the Commander-in-Thief to be tearful at graveside. Ick.
Does anyone else have trouble loading Gorenfeld's web site?
I can't wait to see if Bush tries to use this somehow
Don't you mean "everyhow"?
REAGAN JUST DIED, ACCORDING TO CNN
What about Richard Scaife and his ilk? They are funding almost the whole right-wing campaign and influencing what is said in the so-called mainstream media. What are his thoughts on various issues? I deserve to know, and Republicans should be held responsible for everything he has ever done.
Isn't it interesting, btw, how every lunatic power-hungry wannabe-god is so into bedroom stuff? Wanting to control every itsy bitsy part of people's lives, wanting to insert themselves into it.
i always disliked RR as an actor.
stiff like his hair.
Is Reagan going to heaven, to hell, to Valhalla or simply into a box where he'll decompose slowly?
I must know this.
So at the D-Day anniversary observances tomorrow will anyone mention that Reagan dodged military service in WWII?
President Reagan. Rest in Peace.
joe mcgee - not bloody likely.
Echidne,
Have you gods and goddesses had a meeting to decide where to send Ronnie?
Reckon what the GOP idoltars will do if Nancy and Ron Jr. do object to their sanctifying ol' Ron in inappropriate ways? You know it's gonna happen. I'll be amazed if it don't.
And does anyone else feel a weird sense of Jungian synchronicity with Reagan dying and us just talking about that subject? Weird, man.
Another thing...and forgive me if I sound too callous with this, but I have an admittedly bent view of death and its importance, but why is this a "tragedy"? The cat was 93 years old and in very poor health. If anything, he's better off and in no pain, and so is the family. I've seen what Alzheimer's does to a person and to a family, and if nothing else, Nancy and her brood got my sympathy for that.
Still, a "tragedy"? It seems to be more of an inevitability. It's not like he wrecked his Harley or something...
Just random firings of the nuerons, pay me no mind.
I'm GLAD he's dead. And I hope he burns in HELL!
Ding dong the Gipper's dead.
Ricky, you no good two timing son of a bitch. What's the deal with this Washingtonienne whose pictures are all over your blog?
I am your girl, dammit!!!!
That's it - no more strap-on ass-poundings for you. I don't care how much you beg for me to pound your rectum til it's bloody, I just won't do it. You'll have to go back to gerbil-stuffing.
Why don't you ask that Washingtonienne bitch to pound your posterior, since you like her so much?
So, with Reagan's death, do you think the Democrats will raise as big a furor of "partisanship" as the Rethuglicans did when Paul Wellstone died?
Reagan croaked? What, like a frog or something?
(It'll be interesting if we hear that the Reagan doctors slipped an extra-large dose of morphine to help him on his way. Somehow I don't think that Ashcroft's cronies will be leading Nancy out of the Bel Air house in cuffs.)
Fuck Raygun. He started all this. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
I have such mixed feelings about Reagan dying. On the one hand this would've happened a long time ago if I had been given a chance to get in his bedroom with a pillow.
("oh no he didn't!")
On the other hand, do you guys remember all the nice shit they said about NIXON after he kicked the farm? Now think about the difference in political tone between then and now... and the difference between Nixon's and Reagan's reputations.
Yeeaah. Good thing I have a little tube of 33-decibel earplugs. We're in for it now. Any nominations for what ELSE we can name afterhim?
Give no civility to unwashed Nazi barbarians who will only use it to kill you. Reagan was a monster. He was either completely amoral or evil. He should be shipped to the tiny Nicaraguan hamlets he ripped apart or to the South African torture chambers or ghettos he wholeheartedly supported or to the other places he drenched in the blood of children, and he should be remembered as Mussolini was.
yes, good point Mary 88!!!!
Bedtime for Bonzo i guess
RIH, Reagan.
(not, that's not a typo! Just means "Rot in Hell")
Reagan is dead?
WARNING:
PEGGY NOONAN ON SUICIDE WATCH!!
PEGGY NOONAN ON SUICIDE WATCH!!
Mary 88 IOKIYAR. It wouldn't matter if every single person associated with the GOP got up and gave their stump speaches screaming until they where all red in the face with spittle flying about how they are going to win the election.
"bedtime for bonzo" is brilliant.
[Glenn voice] Indeed.
So when Pinochet dies are we going to hear carefully and extensively produced segments about his love for whoever his wife was?
Dear Ronnie,
I hardly knew ya but I hope you enjoy becoming maggot food.
Troll Disclaimer: I in no way speak for Atrios or the rest of his commentors.
When I think about vile and hateful people, it's comforting to know that someday they will die. It's a way of dealing with the rage I feel everytime I hear about one of their policies designed to crush minorities, the poor and the sick.
Tricky Dick - dead
Strom - dead
Ronnie - dead
Jessie Helms - someday
Will this 'suck all the oxygen' out of the Bush campaign as the Clinton book will supposedly do to Kerry's?
Will this 'suck all the oxygen' out of the Bush campaign as the Clinton book will supposedly do to Kerry's?
Starting a pool: which state will be the first to name a county, or a town, or even itself, for Saint Ronnie?
I'm not going to get nasty about Reagan, but I do remember that he gave us Lee Atwater (whose deathbed apology means NOTHING to me), who helped set the tone for today's partisan nastiness.
He also gave us Iran-Contra.
He was the epitome of the out-of-touch, asleep-at-the-switch GOP President. What is it with these Rethuglicans, that they have to choose these moronic puppets as their 'leader'?
He gave us James Watt and the culture of greed. He lacked compassion for AIDS victims and anyone who wasn't rich and white.
One of the few good things I can say about him, is that he really didn't care for the social conservatives. He really didn't do all that much for the fundies. Just ask one.
One of the other few good things I can say about him, is at least his administration was somewhat competent, unlike the current ruling junta.
I'm going out now to buy myself a few barf bags. This coming week is going to be a non-stop Ronnie cult worship fest.
Look for even more stuff to be named after St. Ronnie.
God knows I was not much of an admirer of Reagan the politician and ideologue, but he WAS a self made man of some real accomplishment.
And, unlike our current President, he was a man, not a boy.
I DO have some real respect for Reagan the man. RIP.
AP says:
Ronald Reagan, the cheerful crusader who devoted his presidency to winning the Cold War, trying to scale back government and making people believe it was "morning again in America," died Saturday after a long twilight struggle with Alzheimer's disease. He was 93.
I'll just say, that's not how I remember the Reagan regency.
Let's hope the family and friends are allowed to grieve as they see fit - publicly or privately.
I share that hope.
"Mourning in America" headlines coming soon?
Listening to Novak slobber all over Reagan's corpse is more than I can handle... I'm gonna go rent some zombie movies and pretend this didn't happen until it goes away.
Nancy has my sympathy. She's been cool about the hysteria over renaming the dime and stem-cell research.
Never mind "Bonzo Goes to Bitburg," now Bonzo's going to hell...
My fiance, reading over my shoulder, just opined that the old monster died just in time to give "Bushy-boy" a big hand in the election, and maybe Nancy had him flash-frozen for a while.
shall we start a betting pool on who will be the first to scold liberals for not being sufficiently mournful of St. Ronnie?
Hopefully the neo-con movement will follow him...
Who wants to place bets on the first Rethug to say, "Win One For the Gipper" (in reference to this November)?
OK I am pretty good at figuring out what all these initials mean, but this is one: IOKIYAR, I cannot figure out, some help here?
Wouldn't it be an incredible hoot if it gets out over the next few days that Reagan, in his confused mental state, liked to call George Bush "Whistle Ass"??
I can dream, can't I?
Yeah, he gave "us" Iran-Contra just like Nixon gave "us" Platoon and Born on the Fourth of July. And to the little brown people concerned, these were not scandals or "post-traumatic stress disorder" flashbacks, these were condemnations to die by the ten-thousand.
And Clonecone, we thought Helms was dead, or did he just retire?
And to all you suicidal centrists yarbling about giving props to this murderer, to be "doing the decent thing": Rachel Corrie a.k.a. Saint Pancake.
The fucker invaded Grenada two weeks after the bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon. That's a real example of wagging the dog--Grenada was no threat.
The blood of the Seals and Rangers who died during the invasion is on his hands. Of course, you it's mixed in with the blood of the victims of the Salvadoran, Nicaraguan, and Hobduran death squads.
"And, unlike our current President, he was a man, not a boy."
No he wasn't. He gained power by allowing the Hollywood blacklisters to abuse his SAG presidency. He was an empty vessle. He was whatever his handlers wanted him to be. Read the lines Ronnie. Don't stray too far from the script. He was an actor his entire professional career, including the 8 years in DC.
BubbaBoBobBrain, It's OK If You Are Republican
Hah! It's OK if you are a Republican.
k&y: yep, Reagan was granted a more dignified end than those nuns, priests and kids in Latin America. I hope that he gets his memory back in the afterlife.
Any recommendations on the best book (no hagiographies, please) to read about Reagan or his administration?
I didn't bother with Dutch because of Morris's decision to interweave fictional elements into the biography. Was I wrong to skip it? What else is worth reading. ie from a liberal perspective?
IOKIYAR-It's OK If You're A Rethug.
Speaking purely about the politics of Reagan's death, I strongly suspect that it's main impact will be to remind people of the fact that George W Bush is no Ronald Reagan.
Reagan presided over a period in which Americans felt prosperous and were proud of our country -- George W has brought about the exact opposite.
Maybe we'll all get reminded of "Voodoo Economics"?
IOKIYAR
It's Okay If You Are a Republican.
Wouldn't it be an incredible hoot if it gets out over the next few days that Reagan, in his confused mental state, liked to call George Bush "Whistle Ass"??
Conventional wisdom holds that the royal families Reagan and Bush dislike each other. Intensely.
Helms retired. The old fucker is still spreaidng his evil in Raleigh.
Saddam shot a Silkworm at the USS Stark in, what? 83? Reagan thought that it was OK. 43 US sailors killed.
"Reagan presided over a period in which Americans felt prosperous and were proud of our country"
What?! Oh, well, for some people definitely. And that definitely is the Official Memory of the Eighties, which is what matters.
President Reagan. Rest in Peace.
Agreed.
Sure, Reagan's politics were reactionary, and he got away with skirting the Constitution here and there. He was a bad president.
But I admired the way he handled his fatal illness. And I'm sorry that public discourse as practiced on these and other message boards (particuarly from people with whom I usually agree on matters of politics) has sunk so low that news of his death would result in so many cheap, uncivil comments.
BOO!
Anybody want to have a pool on when Instahack finds some leftist blogger who says something uncouth about
Folks, I don't want to put too fine a point on this, but the Republicans were just handed a gift from heaven.
Reagan will be invoked shamlessly and continually from now through November; wait for the tribute at the GOP convention. Hannity, Limbaugh, et al will be frothing at the mouth (well, more than usual) over the failure of dirty liberals to show the appropriate respect. Any politician daring to say anything less than 100 percent positive about Reagan will slammed and slammed again.
This is the club they are going to use to smash everyone over the head with. It couldn't have come at a better time for them - too close to the convention/election, and there wouldn't have been sufficient time to exploit it. Now there is.
Ya know, I really can't work up any joy over Reagan's death. He did some dirty shit while in the White House, but he got off scot-free. What's more, he's seen as some sort of secular saint to most people, even liberals who don't know any damn better. He was a puppet, just as much as Bush The Lesser is, and his outta site, outta mind presidency is definately the template for the crooked sumbitches we have occupying the White House now.
Am I glad he's dead, though? No, not really. Everyone dies, so it's nowhere near just deserts, and like someone above said, Ronnie will get a post-mortem handjob the likes that'll make the slavering over fucking Nixon look like flowers sent to a distant old maid aunt's funeral.
Frankly, I just don't care. He's dead, but big deal. No one escapes the reaperman, not even secular saints. I don't know how history will read him, but that all depends on who's running the show when the history books are written.
Me, I was more bummed out when Doug Sahm died. At least brought a little joy into my life, but even then, I didn't know the cat personally. Dead is dead, and that's all there is to it.
Wake me up when something that pertains to living people comes down the pike.
"Reagan presided over a period in which Americans felt prosperous and were proud of our country" What?! Oh, well, for some people definitely.
You're right -- I should have qualified my statement -- MOST Americans felt this way (I certainly never felt proud of how the US behaved under Reagan).
Reagan presided over a period in which Americans felt prosperous and were proud of our country...
If by "Americans" you mean "moronic brownshirt fucks," then I'd say you were correct.
Meanwhile, let me quote the great Groucho Marx:
"I went to Germany, and while I was there they showed me Hitler's grave and I danced on it. I was never that much of a dancer, but I was great that day!"
Watch my two-step when they open the memorial...
"Reagan presided over a period in which Americans felt prosperous and were proud of our country"
No.
No. No. No. No. No.
No.
REPORT AND RECOMMENDATION:
We will remember Reagan by watching the nun rape/murder scene in Oliver Stone's Salvador.
Folks, I don't want to put too fine a point on this, but the Republicans were just handed a gift from heaven.
Prediction.
Sometime within the next few days, Instahack will post some uncouth thing some leftist blogger/media figure says about Reagan and target him/her.
RIP Reagan...
Didnt like his politics or management, but I cant shake the feeling that he was an okay guy.
Reagan gave us the continued imprisonment of American hostages in Iran just so he could win in '80.
He gave us schoolkids a vegetable called "ketchup."
He gave us a ramped up War on Drugs.
Feel free to pile on everyone......
what are the astrologists saying?
worm food, poor worms
Election 6 months away...our ever shrinking attention span will make this seem like really old news by then.
Reagan wasn't as bad as Bush and that's about the best thing I can say about him.
i always thought the "Official Memory of the Eighties" was that episode of "differ'nt strokes" where dudley gets fondled by the bicycle salesman. or was it the episode where the A-team filmed in the penthouse? it was definitely one of those two.
Sometime within the next few days, Instahack will post some uncouth thing some leftist blogger/media figure says about Reagan and target him/her.
Joy of joys, the disinglennuous one is on vacation. Poor InstaFamily.
"...would result in so many cheap, uncivil comments."
Whatever. Reagan allowed death squads to operate in Central America. We even footed the bill so governemnts could wipe out entire villages of in search for suspected communists. I'm not going to cry for an evil old man.
Some people should die. That's just unconscious knowledge. - Jane's Addiction
But I admired the way he handled his fatal illness.
How's that? He was so senile in his second term that GHW Bush looked into the Constitutional process for replacing an incapacitated president.
Oh no, Reagan goes down just before President Bushwa is about to give his big D-Day speech. Does NOTHING go right for this guy?
Any recommendations on the best book (no hagiographies, please) to read about Reagan or his administration?
The transcript of the trial at the World Court in the Hague where Nicaraugua sued the US. Read the testimonies about Contra atrocities. Nicaragua won and got a judgement of $3bil. It never got paid.
Republican party chairman Ed Gillespie blasted Soros for making that connection and made it clear that if Democrats take the billionaire's money, they'll have to answer for his opinions.
Thanks Ed, I am ever so appreciative when republicans give Democrats helpful advice. Hey guys and gals, let's turn down Soros' money!
OT:
Ronald Reagan has died, at age 93.
Reagan is dead? Good. The man was a complete asshole. I dread all the media hagiographies we will have to endure in the coming weeks. Conservative dumbfucks will be insufferable.
"Sometime within the next few days, Instahack will post some uncouth thing some leftist blogger/media figure says about Reagan and target him/her."
I hope it's me.
Bring it on.
Saddam shot a Silkworm at the USS Stark in, what? 83? Reagan thought that it was OK. 43 US sailors killed.
Saddam as dictator was a creation of the Reagan years, more or less. That Rummy handshake... priceless.
Any politician daring to say anything less than 100 percent positive about Reagan will slammed and slammed again.
Well, that means Dubya won't be able to use the perennial 'we won't cut and run... like Beirut' again. (Used as recently as Wednesday.) Which is a small mercy.
OT - I just want to wish Eschaton commenter Smarty Jones luck today.
Admiral Komack,
Thanks for the news flash. Did you happen to read the thread? We've already been talking about it for an hour.
Just when chimpy's approval ratings are at an all-time low, the gipper up and dies! What the rethuglicunts won't do for the sake of their party! Now THAT"S loyalty!
"Reagan presided over a period in which Americans felt prosperous and were proud of our country"
Ladies and gentlemen, this is what a liberal in the age of Kerry sounds like.
He gained power by allowing the Hollywood blacklisters to abuse his SAG presidency.
Have y'all ever read the book:
Dark Victory: Ronald Reagan, MCA, and the Mob by Dan Moldea
Pretty interesting.
It is going to be an interminable week, with all the Reagan hype.
I wonder how many things are going to be named after Reagan in the near future. Maybe the Repugs will be able to knock FDR off of the dime before the week is out. Oh I forgot, Nancy didn't want the Repugs to do that.
What you won't hear about, of course, is how bad the relationship between the Bushes and Reagans really was, including Shrub's relationship with the Reagans when Ronnie was in the White House.
CBS did two pieces, one by Dan Rather and one by Jerry Bowen, about Ronnie. They were both very fair, very effective and seemed very truthful, not propaganda. I was shocked. It seemed like a form of journalism we dont see anymore. I figure the wingnuts will be attacking them both, and CBS, full force, at least once they all finish rending their clothes.
The rest of the press, naturally was doing a Lewinsky, as they will for the rest of the week, at least.
I hope it's me.
Bring it on.
1.) Reagan
2.) Pope?
3.) Arafat? Castro? Queen Mother?
Howard Baker was the unofficial president during the last 2+ years of his 2nd term.
And this (admittedly from a source with an interest) described the US involvement in the Iran-Iraq war. Including that handshake.
Admiral Komack,
Thanks for the news flash. Did you happen to read the thread? We've already been talking about it for an hour.
clonecone
Nope: just got in.
And by the way they're talking about the "sad news" on NPR. That's not a pundit or someone being interviews saying "sad news", that's the newscasters saying "sad news".
fucking SCLM. we should hold them accountable for not saying all kinds of other shit is "sad news".
1.) Reagan
2.) Pope?
3.) Arafat? Castro? Queen Mother?
SWR
Well, since these things come in 3s, I'll predict Castro and Helms.
It is appropriate that Reagan passes as Bush is about to speak at Normandy.
Reagan pretended to be a warrior in the movies he made during WWII. He pretended to be for "family values" even though he was divorced and estranged from some of his children. He pretended to "not negotiate with terrorists" when he did just that. He pretended to be for democracy while Casey was scuttling any chance Carter had for getting the Iranian hostages back. He pretended to be conservative while he ran up deficits. He pretended to be for the rights of citizens even though he was an informer for the FBI during the Fifties. He pretended to be for the common man even though his legacy is the destruction of unions.
He is not much different than Bush except that he could speak better.
He blew up 220 something Marines in Lebanon, invaded Greneda to cover over it, cut and ran from Lebanon so that the Syrians took over, implicitly sending a signal to Saddam that maybe Kuwait was open season too.
He did not beat the Soviets, maybe only sped up their demise. The Soviets were collapsing on their own.
We now spend over 30% of the Federal budget paying just the interest on the debt he rang up. When was the last time this was mentioned on a political talkshow?
Fuck Reagan.
Reagan gave us the continued imprisonment of American hostages in Iran just so he could win in '80.
He gave us schoolkids a vegetable called "ketchup."
He gave us a ramped up War on Drugs.
My favorite: Trees cause pollution
Let's also not forget Regan's spying on domestic groups like CISPES, the American Friends Service Committee, and the Atlanta Rape Crisis Center.
Pssst -- Look guys, you interested in bringing down Bush? Then here's the meme: Bush is no Reagan. Make even the Conservatives feel that they've been seriously shortchanged in Bush as a leader.
Dumping on Reagan is exactly counterproductive to that effort.
Personally, I DO feel that as a man, as a person, Reagan is a thousand times more admirable than Bush. He was a self made man, who pulled himself up from very humble circumstances to some level of real accomplishment in a number of fields.
I despised his politics, and regarded him as very damaging -- but to a degree I have some real respect for him as a person.
I will NEVER feel the same about Bush. He is small, mean, entitled, incompetent, stupid, and wilfully ignorant. What's not to detest?
Rove is licking his chops about how he can use Reagan's death to benefit the chimp.
In honor or Reagan's death, I would like to treat him with the respect that comes with debating his policies as though he were alive.
First topic of the day, Reagan's funding of Islamic fundamentalists against the Soviets.
Debate question: Would 9/11 have happened had not the Republicans used the Mujahadeen against the Soviets. Remember, they were "freedom fighters" according to Reagan.
Or his unbridled cynicism in naming one of the Iran-Conta operatios "Yellow Fruit"
I have a confession to make: I used to adore Reagan.
Hmmm....
Republicans have House & Senate...
Reagan on Mount Rushmore, anyone?
Or his unbridled cynicism in naming one of the Iran-Conta operatios "Yellow Fruit"
I have just one word for Peggy Noonan:
Suttee.
Or is assistance to the Salavadoran death squad in thawrting investigations into the murder of the four American nuns.
Death bounce for Shrub?
Rove will try to hijack the funeral and claim the "Reagan legacy" for Chimpy, but both Nancy and Ron Jr. hate the Bushes.
Time for popcorn.
so I guess the deficit will prove that Raygun didn't matter
The transcript of the trial at the World Court in the Hague where Nicaraugua sued the US. Read the testimonies about Contra atrocities. Nicaragua won and got a judgement of $3bil. It never got paid.
Well, you know, that's the "World Court," which is not an American court (which we all know is superior, because only Americans love freedom!), and so we don't recognize it, which means our politicians don't talk about it, which means the press can't report on it, which means Americans never hear about it, which doesn't matter anyway, because how many divisions does the World Court have [quote attributed to Stalin, for those wondering], and besides we're Americans (did I mention?), so what do we care what the rest of the world thinks, except why don't they love us, and why do they hate our freedom?
or that Iran part of Iran-Contra was basically a bribe made to a terrorist supporting nation to free hostages held by Hizbullah in Lebanon.
you must realize...and this should be made apparant...
1. Ronald Reagan was once a Democrat.
2. Ronald Reagan was once a union leader.
3. Ronald Reagan campaigned for HARRY S. TRUMAN in 1948.
4. Ron Reagan, Ronald Reagan's son, spoke out several times AGAINST george w. bush and in no way will he allow w to make political hay with his dad.
Something to think about. That will certainly fry the asses of the neocons if this is pointed out to them.
or his direct support of death squads in El Salvador, Nicaragua, and Honduras
Kerry campaign just announced plans to honor Reagan by supporting new legislation to reclassify catsup as a vegetable for purposes of school lunch programs.
Fav Reagan joke: Didja hear about the new Ron & Nancy Reagan keyboard? No period, no colon.
.
"Queen Mother?"
Too late. She died 3/30/2002
In honor of Ronald Reagan.
The tragedy of Afghanistan continues as the valiant and courageous Afghan freedom fighters persevere in standing up against the brutal power of the Soviet invasion and occupation. The Afghan people are struggling to reclaim their freedom, which was taken from them when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan in December of 1979.
In this three-year period the Soviet Union has been unable to subjugate Afghanistan. The Soviet forces are pitted against an extraordinary people who, in their determination to preserve the character of their ancient land, have organized an effective and still spreading country-wide resistance. The resistance of the Afghan freedom fighters is an example to all the world of the invincibility of the ideals we in this country hold most dear, the ideals of freedom and independence.
Never checked into that Sharia stuff did you Ron?
or his wag-the-dog invasion of Grenada in which SEALS and Rangers died to direct attention away from the debacle in Lebanon which killed hundreds of Marines.
It's bedtime for Bonzo.
Death bounce for Shrub?
I know it's the OT du jour, but I don't see it, really.
Reagan has been out of sight for 10 years. He is fondly remembered only by the die-hard supporters of Shrub today.
There will be kind things said about the dead, and that will be the end of it. Bush wants to be Reagan; he implements Reagan's policies, via Cheney. But he's no greater a "communicator" than his father.
Reagan's death will have no political impact at all.
OT. From NYTIMES today...
At the news conference, Bush turned curt when a French reporter asked him why his policies were ``pushing your country and France to divorce,'' noting that former President John F. Kennedy had suggested that everyone has two countries -- his own and France.
``To paraphrase President Kennedy, there's America and then there's Texas,'' Bush retorted. He did not elaborate. The purported Kennedy comment was actually originally uttered by President Thomas Jefferson.
Aides later said Bush was just trying to suggest there was another side to matters.
Ah, the great diplomat. Hahaha. That's going to play well in 51 States.
Prediction: Shrubby will wear a black armband from now till the day after election day.
or the fact that he threw thousands of mentally ill out of hospitals and into the street
or that he convinced me that I was actually a liberal.
Scalia appointing wad of human toilet paper...
Didn't see the earlier "Bedtime" one-liner posted already. My bad.
My thoughts on Reagan's death echo the words of noted political theorist Nelson Muntz: "HA-ha!"
Take heart Reagan haters. The coming tributes will be mawkish, of course. But someday Clinton will die, and you'll get the same thing in reverse. If his reputation as a Dem/Lib icon holds up that long. I'm trying to think what saint of the Dems would be comaparable to Reagan. Surely not Jimmy Carter. Ted Kennedy? Not quite. Today, it'd be Clinton. But if that man lives to 93, who knows how he'll be remembered.
Take heart Reagan haters. The coming tributes will be mawkish, of course. But someday Clinton will die, and you'll get the same thing in reverse. If his reputation as a Dem/Lib icon holds up that long. I'm trying to think what saint of the Dems would be comaparable to Reagan. Surely not Jimmy Carter. Ted Kennedy? Not quite. Today, it'd be Clinton. But if that man lives to 93, who knows how he'll be remembered.
Did I mention that Archbishop Romero was murdered by the Reagan supported D'Aubisson death squads?
``To paraphrase President Kennedy, there's America and then there's Texas,'' Bush retorted. He did not elaborate.
See, it's statements like that - or the Mars thing or the steroids thing or the DSL thing - that make me think Bush The Lesser's waaaay out where the busses don't run. Not the insane policy, not the mushmouth mumblings, just the goofy as shit that makes you realize his bread ain't quite done.
It's a good goddamn thing he really isn't running the country, innit?
agentalbert: But someday Clinton will die, and you'll get the same thing in reverse.
Hell, tonight, I'm having catsup with dinner; when Clinton passes, I'll don a blue dress.
.
Fuck him. I hope he suffered at least a fraction as much as the victims of his policies did.
"To paraphrase President Kennedy, there's America and then there's Texas," Bush retorted.
John F. Kennedy's loved ones are real touchy about Texas. They're funny that way...
1. Ronald Reagan was once a Democrat.
And David Horowitz was once the editor of the SDS organ, Ramparts. I'm holding a book right now with an article he wrote full of things like "The virility of the New Left, the sheer vitality of its actions and the deep, deep roots of its culture of rebellion will surely bypass the martinets of any bible-toting, icon-worshiping elite" and "At a time when the industrial engine has reached a point in its dvelopment where it opens up a vista of material plenty and free time (i.e., freedom) for all, America's imperialist system saddles its people and all mankind with militarism, war, pollution, deprivation, exploitation, racism and reprssion." Now go to frontpagemag.com and cry.
2. Ronald Reagan was once a union leader.
Leader? Of the actor's union? Try telling that to the air traffic controllers.
3. Ronald Reagan campaigned for HARRY S. TRUMAN in 1948.
BARRY M. GOLDWATER
4. Ron Reagan, Ronald Reagan's son, spoke out several times AGAINST george w. bush and in no way will he allow w to make political hay with his dad.
He is currently hogtied with a ball gag in Karl Rove's closet.
He conquered the Russkies alone.
To the poor he gave not a bone.
He got off our backs
All government hacks.
From this life the old Gipper's flown.
Ronald and Nancy Reagan are at a restaurant. "I'll have the steak and salad," Nancy tells the waitress.
"And the vegetable?" the waitress asked.
Nancy nodded at Ronald. "He'll have the steak and salad, too."
How's Thatcher's health?
While he was president, Reagan had a new grandbaby. He never laid eyes on that new grandbaby for the next two years he was in the White House.
I voted for him in '80. Worst vote I ever cast. I was young and stupid then.
Say what you want about the addled old fuck, but without Reagan we'd all be speaking Grenadian.
My only question about Reagan dying is: Was it Rove or Cheney that pulled his plug?
Those aren't fire trucks we're hearing, it's the collective mouth of the republican party singing a siren song. Half air-raid siren, half sophist melody. And we'll be hearing it until November.
I'm thinking about Reagan tonight.
I'm also thinking about the thousands of Amerians who got AIDS during his Presidency before he ever publicly mentioned the disease, the 241 Marines who died in the 1983 barracks bombing, the 259 passengers (including some of my college classmates) blown up in the 1988 Lockerbie bombing which Reagan's State Department had advance notice of, and the folks in Iraq and Nicaragua who died from weapons purchased through the Iran-Contra affair.
It will be a sad night, indeed.
Reagan dead?
Awwwwww . . . I'm crying in my soup.
The fucker's been dead since the 1950s when he sold out the Screen Actors Guild in order to begin to make a name for himself in right-wing politics..
Reagan was responsible for the deaths of over 75,000 people in Central America during the 1980s by way of his policies. Also, by supporting Saddam in his war against Iran, there at least several thousand more dead that he helped bring about.
I'm glad the fucker's dead. After all the people he helped kill, the bastard got of easy by being allowed to "cruise into the sunset" with Alzheimer's.
Fuck him and his miserable memory.
``To paraphrase President Kennedy, there's America and then there's Texas,'' Bush retorted. He did not elaborate.
You have to wonder sometimes how he generates the mental energy to put one foot in front of the other....
...much less how to remember to do so.
The silence is deafening.
Except for Joe McGee (thanks) who suggests I read the World Court documentation of Nicaragua's suit against the US, no one has a suggestion for a good Reagan bio or book assessing his legacy (not piecemeal, but the big picture). Could this be because few who have the combination of analytical skills, breadth of knowledge, and a public-interest perspective have dared to write one?
Too bad. Surely the Democrats can find someone who can critically assess the impact of Reagan policies on the economy, world politics, domestic politics, environment, energy etc etc.
I'm going to the bookstore; I won't be able to watch tv for a week. The gipper may have just won this one for the chimp. This is just what the chimp needed. Watch for the Republican convention to be nonstop Reganworship. I'm taking bets the the chimp will use Regan in a tv ad regardless of what Nancy says.
I was just in an AOL News' Chatroom where all the wingnuts are in abject misery and deep mourning over Reagan's death and so help me, someone said they were going to get a bumper stick saying "Win another one for the Gipper."
and so it begins...
IMHO one of Reagan's truest legacies is one that will never be talked about, not in an era of the 'moron majority.'
For those too young to remember:
While his tax cuts for the rich were supposed to "stimulate the economy," the fact is that they were not going to put any money into the pocket of the average Joe. So, how do they get people spending money, money which they didn't actually have, in order to really stimulate the economy?
Simple. Loosen up credit. If you are old enough to remember, pre-Reagan, it was very difficult to get a credit card. You had to be very low risk. Reagan convinced the banks to loosen up credit substantially, and in return, he got rid of the Federal usury laws, allowing states to decide their credit card rate ceilings. Last I had looked, 26 states had no limit, but I haven't looked in a while.
In the ensuing years, banks started to virtually shove credit cards down consumers' throats. They issued cards to many people, leading to a situation today, where the personal debt load, not including housing (but, including items like automobiles), is 2 trillion dollars. Some banks charge close to 30 percent interest.
After they loosened up credit, Reagan also eliminated the tax deduction that used to exist for credit card interest, because, obviously, the tax load of the middle class would have been reduced dramatically, otherwise.
Prior to this time, most people only bought things when they had the money. Very few things were bought "on time." Now they can buy things, even when they don't have the money. And the banks make a fortune.
When I worked in department stores, in the late '80s, we had a quota of department store accounts that we had to open, every week. We were told that the customer's credit card increased their spending in the store by an estimated $100 per month (plus interest).
Plus, of course, when people can buy things with credit, as opposed to when they actually have the money, prices stay artificially higher, because market forces have been lessened in the establishment of the price point.
Whew. Sorry. Had to vent. It is a major pet peeve of mine.
mj writes: "Leader? Of the actor's union? Try telling that to the air traffic controllers."
I wouldn't knock SAG. The point made above about Reagan's complicity in blacklisting may be true, I don't know. But SAG is a real union.
well i came over to post the news but i see it's already known.
might be kind of harsh but i have only one thing to say. one cowboy down, one to go.
ronald reagan, g.w. bush, two men who have most ruined this nation as i would like it to have been known.
goddammit, when can canidates get back to important issues, like when are we going to legalize it.
Say what you want about the addled old fuck, but without Reagan we'd all be speaking Grenadian.
gary
Best post of the day!
.
Bush is no Reagan.
frankly0: You're the only one seeing the bigger picture here.
Shrub will suffer while the froth of Regan memorials grows.
Bush is no Reagan.
Bush is no Reagan.
Bush is no Reagan.
Kudos.
The silence is deafening.
Fuck you, we're not here to cater to your demands. Hundreds of posts have been made and most of them were more response-inspiring than your "anyone know any good books" query. Besides, anyone with "the combination of analytical skills, breadth of knowledge, and a public-interest perspective" has spent the last 4 years dealing with the Bush administration.
I recommend that as a memorial to Reagan, that we put him on the million-dollar bill; because those who can afford one are the only ones who benefitted from his presidency. The original empty suit, he went through eight years "acting" as president. What a farce.
One thing that's undeniable: Ron Reagan Jr. is a smarter cookie than George Bush Jr.
(And the fact that Ron hasn't been doing any MSNBC spots recently may, in hindsight, have been because he was on family duty.)
The gipper may have just won this one for the chimp. This is just what the chimp needed.
Tell me you're kidding. Reagan's been out of the public eye for so long, most people probably thought he was already dead.
Chimpy isn't going to get a boost (nor should he) from this.
Give 'em hell, Nancy.
Eddie Quillen:
Timely post, what with the impending collapse of the consumer debt bubble. (Perhaps the fed rate hikes'll finally pop the fucker?)
Die young and the press doesn't hesitate to paint an accurate picture. Die old and all is forgiven. What would CNN have said if a 93 year old Hitler died in his sleep?
"Hitler united Europe and fought against the tyranny of the Versailles treaty."
QUICK ... TAX HIS ESTATE!!!!!!
I have zero compassion for the embodiment of Rethug cruelty living to a ripe, if addled, 93 years of age. He's second to the Chimp in simplistic cruelty. If Rethugs weren't innoculated by wealth to their own policies, he might just as easily have died long ago on the street, demented, homeless, alone. Would that those who suffered from his policies had the same comfort for their final years (or months). He gloated about young gay men cut down in the prime of life from the religious punishment of "gay cancer". He inflicted unspeakable suffering on the poorest and most disenfranchised members of society.
I have to hand it to Nancy, a tough old bird, for being protective in his last years and for transcending kneejerk RW hooey to speak out about stem cell research.
Some of you on here are just the mirror opposites of the Freepers.
I loathed Ronald Reagan but I feel no joy at his death. And fortunately it happened 6 months before the election so there's more than enough time for the public to forget. I would have been more concerned had he died a few weeks before the election.
Let's really try and change the tone. We don't help ourselves or our cause if we behave like Freepers. Reagan's gone. Let's make sure we don't see his like make it to the presidency again.
Reward good behavior. The right is going to pound the media every time they mention Iran-Contra. If you see it mentioned. Send them a note thanking them for airing news rather than spin.
eddie, that was a great summation. I got a lot out of it and I thought I knew a thing or two about reagan voodonomics. thanks.
Eddie Quillen: Good memory about credit and Reganomics. I remember my first bank loan in the 80's for college, which my parents were rabidly against. I didn't see the problem with credit, of course.
How quickly we've forgotten the shifting sands upon which our whole economy really rests now.
TNRO has the death of Reagan compared to Sauron from the Lord of the Rings.
TNRO has the death of Reagan compared to Sauron from the Lord of the Rings.
So, with Reagan's death, do you think the Democrats will raise as big a furor of "partisanship" as the Rethuglicans did when Paul Wellstone died?
Sometime within the next few days, Instahack will post some uncouth thing some leftist blogger/media figure says about Reagan and target him/her.
Here's a game we should play then. Lets all find columns and letters published or blogged immediately after the Wellstone memorial and reprint them with the only change being a swap of Democrat with Republican and Wellstone with Reagan.
Here, let me start this ball rolling. See if anyone recognizes this slightly altered gem:
As far as I'm concerned, this piece of traitorous shit useless idiot can rot in Hell forever, I'm not ever going to say something nice about a load of crap that was willing to trade the future of my two boys for the fake halo of being "principled".
You can rot in Hell, ex-president Reagan, I couldn't care less.
How's Thatcher's health?
We can only hope that the flight to DC for the funeral finishes her off once and for all.
You have to wonder sometimes how he generates the mental energy to put one foot in front of the other....
...much less how to remember to do so.
Robert M. Jeffers
especially when at least one is in his mouth
He was evil, and I won't apologize for being glad he's gone. I feel the same way in twenty years when the current jerk goes.
Poor Smarty Jones. Outshined by a withered old corpse.
Go Smarty Go!
if anybody has wanted to score any points with the right-wing idiots at work or in your familiy who insist that the media is liberally biased... tell them to pay attention to the next week's news coverage of reagan's death.
i think i'm gonna save all my vomit up for the announcement by bush at the state funeral that reagan's face will be the new addition to mt. rushmore.
I was just in an AOL News' Chatroom where all the wingnuts are in abject misery and deep mourning over Reagan's death and so help me, someone said they were going to get a bumper stick saying "Win another one for the Gipper."
and so it begins...
byteb
Wing nuts are weird. They're mean-spirited always, but when they become sentimental, they only come off seeming corny. Like Bob Barr crying everytime he sees jelly beans.
Good riddance. Those whining about how dare we criticize the dead lest we look like wingers can kiss my ass. The difference is we're telling the truth.
In an earlier time I was a Reagan fan (when I was younger and more conservative). Not so now, but still I have respect for him as a human and I admit to being a bit sad. Nevertheless, he did some horrible things in the name of America and "democracy" -- I dare not use the word unquoted in the same sentence as Bush or Reagan for fear that the universe itself would strike me dead. RIP, Ronald Reagan. I hope the foreign policy worldview you spawned dies with you.
"OT: Man, I am so glad Reagan didn't hang on until October so those slimy bastards could use his death for political gain ..."
Oh, don't count on them NOT whoring the Gipper. I fully expect a whole evening devoted to Reagan, and perhaps the adoption of a new slogan to replace "Yes, America Can" (can what?): "Win one for the Gipper!"
It's a welcome arrival of news for the record-challenged current misadministration. Sure, it didn't occur in October, but they'll revive it for the convention, just as sure as they will call for the curtailment of any stem-cell research which could help victims of his disease (Alzheimers, not reactionary conservativism).
Wonder if Jeanne Dixon foresaw this...
I'll always remember President Reagan as an amiable nincompoop.
just say dead
I'll always remember President Reagan as an amiable nincompoop.
And, unlike the nincompoop we're stuck with now, he could deliver a speech (had a little practice, I guess).
Go, Smarty!!!!!
Budwiser ran a negative ad against Miller during the Belmont Stakes coverage a few minutes ago. A donkey told a clydesdale that Miller was owned by South Africans. I'm not kidding.
I've never seen anything like this before.
Go Smarty Go!
Man, are they ever going to start this frigging race?
From Misha. Purple is giddy happiness or regency, black (duh) is for death, and the skull and crossbones comes from castles announcing feudal lords' passing.
"
The medical division has a purple bunting hanging in honor of the Gipper. He is without question the greatest President that will have been in office in my lifetime.
Posted by LC Patrick, Royal Medic at June 5, 2004 05:22 PM
"
I say Smarty by four lengths! WHOO HOO!
How's Thatcher's health?
We can only hope that the flight to DC for the funeral finishes her off once and for all.
anonymous in nc
What was it she said in private after she met Ronald Reagan? Something like there's nothing upstairs.
When the evil Maurice Duplessis, almost certainly the worst provincial primier in Canadian history (give or take a Ralph Klein) was being buried it was one of the hotest days in Quebec history. Everyone said it was because hell was opening up for him.
My night shade crops are finally going to start growing.
A story you've heard before, but a good one.
Ronald Reagan: I piss on your grave
"yes, of course,he's a sweet old thing that we love to hear honk on about the 50's, but that doesnt mean his foreign policy is any good"
Gore Vidal on Reagan circa 88' i think
oh and INCOGNITO, you have to give up the Bob Barr/Jellybean info. please.
it sounds too good to miss.
I remember Reagan- he made Alzheimers a fashionable condition. A large part of the country caught it from him.
A donkey told a clydesdale that Miller was owned by South Africans. I'm not kidding.
Yeah, it's pretty lame. Then again, the US employs South African mercs in Iraq, so I don't see the problem.
Sorry Smarty.
Fuck you, we're not here to cater to your demands
Indeed not, mj. The point is that most Democrats are too afraid of Reagan to take him on. Too the extent that they don't do much to present a different script about Reagan's legacy.
For example, Mort Kondracke just moments ago repeated the canard that Democrats believe Gorbachev ended the Cold War when "we all know" Reagan did. Actually, many economists, social scientists and ex-Soviet military officials(!) say that the emerging network society was the last straw. The Soviet economy was falling further and further behind relative to the networked global economy and they realized the gig was up.
So why aren't Dems fighting back? They're afraid of Reagan's charisma. Still, it's time for them to put to rest the old canards raised by Kondracke and company.
One length!?! What a depressing fucking day.
So what's the answer to the Wellstone-Reagan inversion quote, eh Thumb?
Mort Kondracke is a joke. I talked to him once at a party. He said that we should let gays serve in the military and send them straight to the front lines to serve as cannon fodder.
Smarty Jones lost in the home stretch.
I cried. I so wanted something to celebrate in this time when there is so much anger and pain.
Oh, well.
"shall we start a betting pool on who will be the first to scold liberals for not being sufficiently mournful of St. Ronnie?" renato
sean, bob, any one of numerous fox nitwits.
i see some here are worried about being like freepers, and gloating about the reagans death. while i see that as a legitimate concern, let us not forget that st. ronnie is going to be shoved down our throats for several weeks to come. well, he wasn't a saint, he was a right wing idealougue. tho i doubt he understood his policies even as well as the current nimrod in office. they were bad for the poor and infirmed, not so good for the middle, but great for the rich and powerful. that is not the kind of nation i want.
finally i'll just say this "for those that think deaths honesty won't fall upon them naturally, life must sometimes get lonely" b.dylan
or as my buddy says "it would make a difference if you could take it with you, but you cant'".
Some douche bag on CNN said that Reagan wanted to be on Omaha beach on D-Day but his bad vision kept him in Hollywood making VD films.
Then Bruce Morton talks about the invasion of Greneda and then the Marines all blowed up in Labanon.
How about chronology, asshole?
Then Candy Crawling said what a great job he did leading the country through the grief of the blowed up Marines.
At least Morton mentioned IranCOntra (just the Iran part) and showed a clip of him on the stand saying "I don't remember."
Still no mention of David Stockton's book, "The Triumph of Politics".
In honor of Reagan, I'm going to cut the cheese.
DK, a book to read--Sleepwalking Through History. Can't remember the author.
I wish Ronnie could have taken it with him. Instead, he left it here for us, more's the pity.
Will we get to see his casket or will they not show it, "to save the family more grief"?
Time to dust off "Taxi Driver" and watch that one again.
HA! HA!
DEAD, DEAD, FUCKING DEAD!!
HURRAY!!
I guess Elton John is going to come out with another version of "Candle in the Wind".
In honor of all the soldiers who lost limbs in Iraq, maybe Bush should give them each the DVD of the movie where Reagan gets his legs cut off.
"Where's the rest of me?!?!?!"
Everybody here should head down to their used bookstore and pick up a copy of Paul Slansky's The Clothes Have No Emperor, the definitive history of the Reagan administration.
Re: Bob Barr and jellybeans- Barr idolizes Reagan, and Reagan loved jellybeans, particularly jellybellys, which are made in California, In Fairfield.
All the networks have become the idolizing already.
Here's a happy thought- this pushes chimpy right out of the news. He really wanted to be seen as a master of foreign policy this weekend- and no one gives a fuck about him going to Normandy.
The new digitally remastered "Knute Rockne Story" has GWB computer-inserted as a cheerleader making cow eyes at the Gipper.
DK-
another book for you:
The Clothes Have No Emperor
by Michael Slansky (sp)
who used to write for SPY magazine
boy i wish SPY were still around
and i still want to know why Bob Barr cries when he sees jellybeans, childhood trauma or what?
Bush made a statement but it was just audio, really bad, tinny-sounding, like from the 1930s.
Maybe he was having one of his can't-be-seen-in-public moments.
I can't believe Rove would let him get out of this free electioneering without a damn good reason.
Needless to say, I don't remember a damn thing Bush actually said.
(Alzheimers, not reactionary conservativism).
Stem cell research? We don't need no stinkin' stem cell research! We have found the primary cause of reactionary conservatism! Or is it the other way around?
smarty lost? now i'm bummed, smarty was my fleece, to know if john kerry was going to win. but john could still win.
a good thing i heard, to say about reagan vs bush "if there is any blame to be laid, it lies in this office, with this president"r.r. after lebanon. "we don't do anything wrong, we do everything right, and if we do make any mistakes it's saddams fault, ah er ... i mean chalabis'" bush and co. after most of iraq fiasco.
the king is dead, long live the king!
The Wife says, "Aw, poor guy, he finally keeled over. I wonder if he knew he was dead."
Well, there he goes again.
DK:
Good book about the Reagan years:
Reagab's Ruling class: portraits of the President's top 100 officials by Ronald Brownstein
available at Powells.com, The finest little bookstore in The World.
-
The embalming begins in five minutes.
and i still want to know why Bob Barr cries when he sees jellybeans, childhood trauma or what?
justathought
Reagan and Barr ate them together all the time at different cabinet meetings. Reagan loved them and always kept a large jar of them around. It was like a running inside thing with Reagan and jellybeans. So when Reagan became ill, Barr would cry at the sight of jellybeans.
No laughs for the Kerry/catsup-as-vegetable joke? Okay, I quit!
.
From CNN.com:
Reagan dies with children at his bedside
First time they'd seen him in, what, 20 years?
Im sure he'll be given a distinguished position in hell.
Sexist Thought While Flipping Through Channels:
When I shuffle off this mortal coil, I only want my TV obit to be read by someone as babelicious as ABC's Elizabeth Vargas. Oof!
Rrose, you're killin' me.
The sentiment that allows many people to think Reagan was an OK guy even if they weren't sure about his policies is exactly the lever the GOP used to get Bush the Lesser close enough to steal the 2000 election.
Yes, he is dead. But are we sure that he won't be appointed to a sensitive government position by the Bush administration?
HA! HA!
DEAD, DEAD, FUCKING DEAD!!
HURRAY!!
BlakNo1 | Email | Homepage | 06.05.04 - 7:08 pm | #
wow, a troll, one would think they would be too mired in grief today to come thru here and stink up the place with their little green troll-droppings.
now dont feed it, and maybe it'll just go away...
oh and thanx ,incognito
I cried. I so wanted something to celebrate in this time when there is so much anger and pain.
Smarty Jones is a great horse. He did give us all something to cheer about. Even today.
I despised Reagan. I'm not glad he's dead but I hope I can get through the hypocrisy-laden week full of tributes ahead without throwing up.
And oh yeah - I used to think Ronnie was the worst President ever. Little did I know.
This winter our congressman here in Indiana, Mark Souder supported a bill that would put Ronnie on the dime in place of FDR. The issue sort of died once Nancy R. said she wouldn't want Roosevelt removed, and she didn't think Ronnie would want him removed either. I wouldn't put it past Souder bring up the idea again now that Regan has passed on. Personally I think it's a good idea. Regan on the dime, because under we sure had alot of folks begging for spare change.
And Rev. Moon is whack btw. Totally insane.
Another terrific book is Mark Hertsgaard's On Bended Knee: The Press and the Reagan Presidency, about how the GOP bullied the media into 24/7 positive coverage of the Gipper.
I'm a troll because I'm cheering about Reagan kicking the bucket??
Am I at the right site? Or did I just bamf into the Bizzaro universe?
Oh well, Ha Ha, dead dead, happy happy joy joy!!
No doubt ROve will exploit this portrait of Ronnie with GW Bush during the campaign.
This winter our congressman here in Indiana, Mark Souder supported a bill that would put Ronnie on the dime in place of FDR. The issue sort of died once Nancy R. said she wouldn't want Roosevelt removed, and she didn't think Ronnie would want him removed either.
IIRC, they put FDR on the dime because of his visibility with the March of Dimes charity to fight paralysis (get it?)
What I like best about all the stories on the Belmont on CNN.com, AP, etc etc is how they never print the payouts - because as we all know, horse racing is all about the competition, never about the betting!
Birdstone paid $74.00 clams on a two dollar bet. Exacta was $139, tri paid around $1500...
The first Presidential election I was able to vote in was 1980. I remember waiting in line (a line that went around the block) to cast a vote against Ronald Reagan. I remember a friend of mine saying, when Reagan was re-elected, "Now let us all join hands and walk into the sea."
His legacy? The idea that you can get away with lying if your lies are big enough, and you're "nice" (you know, the kind of guy you'd like to have a beer with), the idea that a figurehead is good enough to be President.
The disconnect of rhetoric and actions (talking about being responsible while creating huge deficits). The Iran Contra Scandal, which, in my opinion, led directly to the Bush scandals (with many of the same players). The contempt for the Constitution. The second-worst Attorney General ever (Ashcroft has Meese beat, but we should all remember that Ed Meese was the one who said that anyone who was arrested was guilty). A whole horde of high level officials who had to resign due to scandals.
I can see why Bush would like people to think of him and Reagan as being in the same league. The one led directly to the other, and to the near destruction of everything that matters about America.
As my mother said when Lee Atwater died, "Now he will have to answer for what he's done."
I'm trying to imagine what RR's "Just Reward" is...
Nope, it's all bad.
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet (skimming 300 messages ain't easy), but on the meme of Raygun's death, I almost expect the GOP to have a memorial service that amounts to "Vote Bush!" I had him in my dead pool too, but I was expecting him to go in October.
Justathought is a troll. BlakNo1 is an established player in the commentariat. And we also when we saw his joy realized we were being restrained: in addition to watching the nun rape/murder scene in Salvador, we are dancing around with joy that the monster who caused that scene is DEAD! FUCKING DEAD! DEAD! HA! HA! HA!
Now, we'll see a memorial service that'll make the Wellstone Memorial look like the picture of understated neutrality.
Hey, that's right, Meese was all worried about porn just like oilyboy...
Caption for that photo-link by Peanut: "Young Reagan, bottle feeds an even younger George W. Bush"
Now, we'll see a memorial service that'll make the Wellstone Memorial look like the picture of understated neutrality.
No shit. In fact, we'll see memorial services like that, since the RNC will now be whoring both IX/XI and Beloved Leader.
Thanks for all the recommendations (God,I forgot about Haynes Johnson!)
Hope still more Reagan bios will be written soon by someone of the caliber of a Halberstam or Caro. As Eric Foner says "A new future requires a new past". So far it seems the right still has the upper hand in defining the Reagan legacy.
patriotboy, the anti-Miller, pro-Busch ad was downright funny to me. It's absolutely true that Miller was bought out by SA Breweries (SA = South African) recently. They even had the McCain-Feingold "I approved this message" in there.
DK, (how appropriate) Jello Biafra mentions on his first spoken word album, the book Dark Victory already mentioned on this thread somewhere.
Hagiographers, start your engines.
People with any sense of human decency, get out your barfbags.
When I was 13 and watching this diabolical-swallower-of-Satans-cock being inaugurated, I knew the shadow of his evil was going to cast a general pall of total sucktitude over the coming decade. How right I was.
Reagan died?
I'm way more sad about Smarty Jones losing Belmont. After surviving that skull fracture and all...
And now we get to look forward to weeks of Reagan-worship on every media outlet, ad nauseum.
So what's the answer to the Wellstone-Reagan inversion quote, eh Thumb?
That was an excerpt from the Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler. After Wellstone's death he went on a rant about Wellstone now burning in hell. Nice doggie indeed. Only the Wellstone/Reagan names were changed.
"if democrats take his money, they will have to answer for his opinions."
Funny, the American people pay the salaries of the entire Bush administration, and they haven't given us a straight answer about anything in almost four years.
I don't know who this fuckhead is on CNN, but he just said Ronnie was the greatest president of the 20th century. The question was in regards to economic policy.
WTF?
It's already begun...
Just like the thread about the heritage foundation having 2 of the 3 things there...facts and figures missing - this fuck said he had a vision w/o the details.
Fuck this.
I am also headng to the bookstore.
Peggy Noonan: "I gotta tell you, I think people are going to realize the last great man in America may have just died" shortly thereafter the hearse appears, looked like any other hearse i've ever seen.
after 10 years of alzhiemers i'm glad for his relief. but i don't think people should forget, that much like the present president, he was basically a war criminal.
secret goverment is bad.
When I was 13 and watching this diabolical-swallower-of-Satans-cock being inaugurated, I knew the shadow of his evil was going to cast a general pall of total sucktitude over the coming decade. How right I was.BlakNo1
are you better off than you were 24 years ago?
No doubt Rove will exploit this portrait of Ronnie with GW Bush during the campaign.
I remember very clearly, my best buddy, a lifelong Repug, sitting with me, a known Reagan hater, as we watched one of Ronnie's speeches. It was about 20 years ago.
At one point, he turned to me and said "I know you hate him, but you gotta admit, he makes you feel safer."
I admitted he was right.
A couple of months back, we were watching Chimpy, and I said to him, "I know you like him, but you gotta admit, he makes you feel more frightened."
My bud admitted I was right.
He has told me he will either vote Dem, or not vote at all (he does hate Kerry).
i was roseanne rosannadanna
Olaf glad and big | Email | Homepage | 06.05.04 - 4:02 pm | #
While I enjoy you as roseanne rosannadanna, I really like you as Olaf glad and big, more
Current poll at cnn.com:
What will Ronald Reagan be most remembered for?
Triumph of conservatism
Morning in America
End of the Cold War
*sigh*
Ronnie is dead, and so is the Republican Party.
About time.
There is no truth to the rumor that John Ashcroft has ordered FBI agents to pick up anyone not showing sufficient mournfulness over St. Ronnie's death...
Ah, so that's who's breaking in my door...
Over at LostRemote.com, they've posted a collection of Reagan Resources.
It seems they are eliminating comments critical of Reagan. Here's the explanation:
Comments: Resources covering Reagan's death
We have deleted two inappropriate personal comments from this thread about President Reagan.
A gentle reminder here that Lost Remote is a forum for news, convergence and technology, not a site for ad hominem personal or political attacks.
We absolutely encourage the exchange of ideas on ways to report this event. We want to hear from news folks on how they are reporting this event, and we want to hear from news consumers on what you think of the coverage. We're especially interested in what ways convergence is being used to cover and follow this event.
LR will continue to remove any comments (or take out the comments feature altogether) if posters do not adhere to our policy.
Cory and Steve
__________________
Anyone care to provide Cory and Steve with the type of feedback they seem to be requesting--while "adhering" to their comments policy? Perhaps additional resources for their readers- or comments on how the media is covering (i.e. distorting) the Reagan legacy? The media industry reads this site, and should be aware of public opinion regarding the coverage of "Reagan's legacy."
And oh yeah - I used to think Ronnie was the worst President ever. Little did I know.
-gemini
I'll second that. RR was also the worst governor that California ever had; he put the mentally ill and developmentally challenged out on the street in Cali long before he did it to the rest of the U S of A. It was a day of despair when he was elected Prez after his poor record in Cali. His first four years was a miserable time; unemployment rose to better than 30% in the trades; the next four years were worse.
We could have contained the AIDS epidemic at that time. The crack epidemic need not have happened. We saw the rise of the subservient press; he was the original Teflon prez. His terms also marked the rise of the thick-headed couch potato voting bloc who get their rocks off on watching other people's sons and daughters invade other countries and bomb the hell out of brown people; and the rise of the Yuppies, who now are Mauppies (middle-aged uppies) who are no less greedy and self-centered now.
Little did we all know.......
Eddie Q,
"He has told me he will either vote Dem, or not vote at all (he does hate Kerry)."
Sounds like a real smart guy, your friend. Lots to hate about a decorated war hero with a soul and a conscience.
We sincerely hope Prof. Jeffers was right about this not being a nightmare in the quickening. Any history buffs know any comparisons to Hitler's handling of, we don't know, Hindenburg or something? Or of Stalin's use of Lenin, or Deng's use of Mao?
sorry blakno1
havent seen you comment here before,
i just thought your glee seemed a little fake, y'know,like something a troll would post to show bad behavior on this board.
i do not have fond memories of Reagan's eight years of warmongering.
i wont miss him,but i wont cackle at his demise.
-
kei & yuri -say it aint so, from brilliant to troll in one message thread?
kiki, that's all that can be expected of many good people, and it'll help. That's pretty much Anthony Zinni's take, and he's being given hell for it despite being himself "a decorated war hero with a soul and a conscience."
What can be said? Rethugs cannot just turn no matter how logical it would be. You do not know the power of the dark side.
Apology accepted, pardon me while I cackle...
MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Justa, you were brilliant? When? Not that that would mean anything but name theft.
We stop dancing when CNN does. Right now CNN is dancing on the graves-excuse us, the ditches and the rubble-of thousands. If "a statistic" doesn't do it for you, there's the few white nuns Reagan (by way of being the attacker's commander and enthusiastic supporter) raped and murdered.
OT, but so much for another possible October surprise:
Tony Blair was branded 'delusional' yesterday over his continued insistence that weapons of mass destruction might still be found in Iraq. The charge was made by the man who headed the hunt.
Following claims by the Prime Minister on Friday that the search might still turn up illegal weapons in Iraq, David Kay, who led the Iraq Survey Group after the invasion, insisted that the weapons did not exist, and called on Blair to apologise for being wrong.
'Anyone out there holding - as I gather Prime Minister Blair has recently said - the prospect that ISG is going to unmask actual weapons of mass destruction is really delusional,' he told the BBC.
I was in the Air Force when Ronzo was elected, my write in that year was for the truely best qualified guy, independent John Andersen. I was sorry as hell when Ronzo was sworn in, well at least I was until he gave the military a 13% payraise; however as soon as he got those "jarheads" (used affectionately, I had a few budds that were marines) KIA in Beruit I was through with him. Any president and congress that is that willing to place the service men and women in harms way that casually I will always mis-trust. I do not like seeing military members coming home in a box, or crippled for life. I would be there, but for the factor of age. To paraphrase Michael Moore " After this will they ever trust us again?"
Eddie Q,
"He has told me he will either vote Dem, or not vote at all (he does hate Kerry)."
Sounds like a real smart guy, your friend. Lots to hate about a decorated war hero with a soul and a conscience.
Cory and Steve
My family has lived in California before it was a state. I have spent most of my life in the film industry. I am very familiar with Ronald Reagan. The real Ronald Reagan before he was on a the national stage. Here's a gentle reminder for you. If there is a hell, Ronnie is toking on Satan's smoking crank right now and for all of eternity.
show bad behavior on this board
If he wasn't blak we'd break out the bondage gear and talk freely about vapulation. Bad! Bad! Very bad! Only strict well-fastened discipline on these threads, surely we have never seen anything else...
bedtime for bonzo" is brilliant.
[Glenn voice] Indeed.
undersec. kei & sec. yuri | Email | Homepage | 06.05.04 - 5:17 pm | #
k & y,
Yeah, I know--a non-voting repug is a vote for Kerry. I'm just cranky today and am getting sick of the "hate Kerry" b.s. bandwagon.
We all have lots of reasons to hate Bush--starting with 817+ dead soldiers in a war of choice. No one seems to have a good reason for hating Kerry yet the media keeps harping on his supposed unlikeability. And it becomes a media-fulfilling prophecy.
k&y: and as we recall Reagan's 'democratizing' of Latin America, it will once again remind us just who is the real ruler of Iraq on July 1.
You got us there, but that was before you dissed our fellow gravedancer. Disrespect to a fellow of the club (which you can finds us doing in the past, and which brought about speculation of name theft then too) is not done.
During Reagan's second term as California governor, Patty Hearst was kidnapped by the Symbionese Liberation Army. One of their ransom demands was for Hearst's parents to distribute free canned food to California's poor, which they did. Quoth the now-universally beloved warm & fuzzy Reagan: "It's just too bad we can't have an epidemic of botulism."
I thought I'd be happier today. I had always planned on going out & getting toasted on the day that the great evil perished but it just isn't going to happen. It is raining, Smarty lost, and Bush's evil so overpowers Reagan's that it just doesn't seem worth the effort. Oh well.
Sounds like a real smart guy, your friend. Lots to hate about a decorated war hero with a soul and a conscience.
Kiki- He's no rocket scientist, but is perhaps the sweetest, most beloved person I have ever known. He doesn't have an enemy in the world, and I am quite sure that he would take a bullet for me.
It just happens that sometimes, people can not ignore how they were raised. He was raised a rock ribbed Repug. He grew up during Viet Nam, in a family of loyal Nixonites, and had his opinion of Kerry established pretty early. The humiliation of Nixon resigning was very personal to him and his family, as it was to many Repugs. He just wishes John Edwards could have been nominated, because that would have made it an easy choice.
Don't forget, human nature makes it dificult enough to not root for your own team. Negative first impressions make it even harder.
The vote of confidence is always appreciated...
..now watch this jitterbug...feets do yo stuff!
Paula Zahn is gushing about Ron and Nancy's special love for each other. Funny, she didn't mention how Sinatra boned Nancy in the Lincoln Bedroom.
From the invaluable Cursor:
"
CNN runs Ronald Reagan tribute that was in the can since 2001. See who else was good to go.
"
yeah well mea culpa,
i was kinda trying to have it both ways too i guess,
acerbic comments=good, outright cackling=bad.
a question of tone and taste i guess
gee whiz this virtual community thing is tricky
Damn. I was reading a book all day and just checked Google news... and here it looks like Old Hat broke the story around 4:30. I haven't read the whole thread, I just Ctrl-F'd for "Reagan."
Somebody was discussing Reagan's impending passing earlier on another thread today -- like, before it happened. Did somebody here pick up a news report somewhere about it, or are you guys just frighteningly prescient??? I can't hang around tonight, have company arriving shortly, but you guys are scary. In a good way.
Remember, it's okay to disagree!!
Now I want to cackle some more, where's that bullhorn?..
Somebody was discussing Reagan's impending passing earlier on another thread today -- like, before it happened.
Silleigh:
The news media knew about his impending passing last night.
What's with the Reagan death-panic? The man has been dying for fifteen years. Nobody's going to freak out over this. It isn't going to help Bush one iota.
My $0.02, anyway.
And who can forget THIS photo?
Moon has said...
"Calls the Holocaust payback for killing Christ"
Geeeee.......
And here I thought it was the Romans that killed Christ...they nailed him to the cross, set it upright in the ground, and stabbed him with a spear to make sure he was dead hours later.
I guess I went to the wrong kinda Christian church.
regards
.
Silleigh: Starting with O in the "Follow the Bouncing Smear" thread who wrote
"
For a while I've wondered if Reagan is already dead and his "death" will be used as an "October Surprise." But it probably isn't true if they're talking about his death now. Why would they ruin the surprise?
0 | Email | Homepage | 06.05.04 - 11:29 am | #
"
which set off a healthy Reagan subthread more or less ending with Backslider's comparison of the suffering of a long death/"fuck Reagan" (which he later retracted in favor of more politic stuff).
Reagan at Bitburg: The SS troops buried here were "victims just as surely as the victims in the concentration camps."
welll...insofar as they ceased to be after a cessation of cardiopulmonary function, and had once been carbon-based Central European HomoSapiens, yes, guess it's all just a matter of scale...
Dems should be shouting Moon's affiliations and his crap from the rooftops. Not just for his nutball religious 'Messiah' pronouncements, but Moon has made a lot of anti-American comments which wouldn't sit well with the Rethug dupes in NASCARland.
Someone should do a chart interspersing their "hate America" quotes. Call it "Moon or Bin Laden?"
Reagan is the first president of the U.S. that I paid any attention to. He was a lot better actor as a president than as an actor. He also had a role in the McCarthy trials, didn't he?
He had his innings, as far as I'm concerned, and a lot longer they were than most of us will experience.
Ok, that was all I can say that is sort of nice and polite.
I take no joy in Reagan's death, nor do I mourn his passing. However, I am afraid that it will inspire Republicans to go out and vote. Perhaps, the timing was too early, though. We shall see.
My dad wanted him to live forever to make him suffer for all he did to this country.
California: Bin Laden doesn't think he's several historical and religious figures (at once), nor does he condescend to receive the endorsement of ghosts. Nor have his financial scams been caught yet. On these counts and more bin Laden is easily more sane than Moon.
From all of the people who were infected with HIV under your watch,
we will never forget you.
coward
racist
homophobe
criminal
YOUR suffering ended years ago- the damage you've inflicted on others lives on.
It's way too soon for this to be used in any meaningful way for election purposes, I think.
Now watch this electric slide...on the dance floor... freaky deeky like studio 54..
Inspire Republicans to go out and vote?
Well, only those that were going to vote Republican anyway.
For the real answer why they're floundering despite their flag waving and positive economic indicators, see Billmon.
The deal is: the Wrich are getting Wricher, but no one else is.
People remember the Reagan years, which were pretty much this way for most people.
There is no way they can create a service economy, denigrate everyone working in it, and expect to win a free election.
It's just that simple.
The Clintonistas were smart enough to realize that if everyone is happily employed- and during those years most were- they'll support the leader that makes that economy.
And respects the people in that economy.
I need to confess something...I voted for Reagan, for his second term
(I was young and got mixed up with the wrong crowd, parents sent me to a Baptist moral majority private school)I was puninshed by having the only man to ever really care for me end it over my vote. He could not stomach having a Republican g/f......I've been in one bad relationship after another ever since.
I guess I deserve it.
OT, but who thinks the election will be called off for some reason?
I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who actually does believe a lot of that crap about Reagan...very scary. All I know for sure is that there really is a Domino Effect: Once you guys had Reagan and the UK had Thatcher, besides creating a legacy that gave you The Shrub, it also opened the door for Brian Mulroney, surely the most overall evil PM of Canada, and from there, Ontario Premier Mike Harris, who must give Maurice Duplessis and Ralph Klein a run for their money as worst Provincial Premiers ever.
The problem is, when the US sneezes, Canada catches a cold...
...and The Shrub is spraying galloping pneumonia around. I think things here are going to be really rough two years from now. (Go Kerry!)
Ok, that was all I can say that is sort of nice and polite.
Why is it important to be nice and polite? The man was a monster. That's as true today as it was yesterday.
Let's be very careful about dancing on Ronald Reagan's grave. I'm very mindful that there would be plenty of folks in El Salvador, Nicaragua and Honduras doing so if they weren't dead but, again, let's try to learn a little from history here.
Being a Michigander, I know about "Reagan Democrats". Macomb County, basically a giant suburb of Detroit, is where the phrase was coined.
Our Democratic leadership had become - and remains to this day - a stultified embarassment to the Party of FDR.
Was Reagan a horrible President? Yes. (Although the spectacle of GWB rehabilitates Reagan each day.) The more important question to be asked is who is to blame for Reagan's being elected - twice? Registered Democrats did - and still do - outnumber Republicans in this country.
Who is to blame for the fact the we currently have a candidate so uninspiring that we are barely breaking even against the worst President in the history of our republic?
Maybe in the afterlife Reagan will run into the priests that were executed in El Salvador by the right-wing goon squads he illegally financed. You know the ones - before they were shot they had their penises cut off and shoved in their mouths.
Maybe he'll run into the hundreds of thousands of people who died of HIV/AIDS during his presidency - when Reagan didn't even say the words "HIV" or "AIDS", because it didn't affect anyone important.
If so, given the current political dynamic in our country today, Reagan would probably shrug and say, "we won".
I heard Georgie pronounce 'tyranny' as 'tie-ranny' during his speech about Reagan today.
Reagan killed a lot of innocent men, women and children.
He transferred more wealth from the poor and the middleclass to the rich than anyone prior to Bushboy.
He saluted Nazi SS gravesites.
He was either derelict in his duty regarding Iran-Contra by being ignorant of it or he knowingly and willingly violated his oath of office and did not uphold the separation of powers of the US Constitution.
He was not a very bright man nor a very kind man. He had a whimsical way about him that he got a lot of mileage out of and the Republican party propaganda machine made him into an American icon.
But his feet and his head were always made of clay.
[bumping and grinding and leaving fluids on the gravestone while Michael Reagan watches twitching]
The root problem pointed up by Reagan's more than timely demise is the unAmerican unquestioning worship of the Leader, pretty much because he is or was the Leader, and does not really need to do anything in particular to expect sainthood.
i can't work up any glee about reagan dying. of course i can't work up any real sorrow either. i am preparing for the worst kind of schlock hagiography coming up though. as for the danger that they might try to put his face on mt rushmore, i was just there a month or so ago and i don't think you could put another face on there without ruining the composition. (by ruining the composition what i mean is that it would look even more bizarre than it already does). so that probably won't happen. plus i think sculpting with tnt is kind of a lost art these days.
i'm more upset that smarty lost. damn jockey shoulda ridden him faster.
Anonymous: OT, but who thinks the election will be called off for some reason?
Won't fly. Still too many military here that will uphold the Constitution.
.
Thank god,I thought the sob might outlive me.
I'm the same way Olaf. No sorrow, but no glee either. We on the Left should be mindful of too much joy over his death. It's bad karma to be too happy over his death. Thus, I will be civil. I'll still point out that he was one of the worst presidents ever. But I take no joy in it.
Current poll at cnn.com:
What will Ronald Reagan be most remembered for?
Triumph of conservatism
Morning in America
End of the Cold War
*sigh*
I'll abstain from voting in this one until they add a "Death Squads" option.
JD Hayworth is probably taking a razor to his wrists as I write.
Hey, I know Smarty is tired, but when's he coming back to tell us about the race?
Eschaton is the only political blog I know that has a near triple crown talking horse that gives informed political commentary.
JD Hayworth is probably taking a razor to his wrists as I write.
notch
if only
How sweet...How revisionistic...
In a Reagan retrospective NBC just brushed off Iran/Contra as "a James Bond adventure run amok".
UFB...
How sweet...How revisionistic...
In a Reagan retrospective NBC just brushed off Iran/Contra as "a James Bond adventure run amok".
UFB...
The media hagiography is in full swing. If I hear one more time that Reagan won a "landslide" in 1980 I will puke.
Sure Reagan won a landslide in 1980 -- if by "landslide" you mean a president who's vote share only barely cracks the 50% mark at 50.75%.
Since 1932, the average vote share has been 53%. Reagan's vote share in 1980 is not even in the top half of presidential vote shares since 1936.
Roosevelt, Johnson, and Nixon all cracked the 60% mark. Those were landslides. Reagan's 50.75% is not a landslide.
Just more media affirmative action for Republicans.
Well, big state funerals are cool. Nobody can do it like the Russians tho. They had a bunch there for a while like every two months. It was great. Kei or Yuri might remember Sadat's funeral. It kicked ass.
hmmm, reagan dies...
no post from atrios since...
hmmm, reagan dies...
no post from atrios since...
Maybe he just has nothing nice to say, so he's not saying it.
More likely though, its Saturday night and he has a life.
What the Reaganites really care about is this: they want capitalism in America to become what Karl Marx thought it would be by nature - the transcendent force and the measure of all things, the power that reduces free politics to trifling, the citizen to a "worker," the public realm to "the state," the state to an instrument of repression protecting capitalism from the menace of liberty and equality. Marx's description of capitalist society is the Reaganite prescription for America. This is the meaning of National Renewal.
Walter Karp (RIP), Harper's, 10/81
There is no fuckin hope that the SCLM are not gonna totally fawn over this dead president for days and through November, using him as a counterpoint for Bush as they'll use Clinton as a counterpoint for Kerry. Fine.
Because in the end, BUSH WILL NEVER MEASURE UP to the public image of Reagan. The Republicans built that myth out of their last puppet. And now they'll die by it.
Without Reagan there's no Iran/Contra, and without Iran/Contra there's no Contra series for the NES.
So Reagan's presidency isn't a strict failure. Right?
you know, i was just looking at some pics i took of rushmore. maybe they should put reagan on it. that is one weird monument. it only works as a tribute to everything that is completely goofy about america. it is such a monstrosity that only way to improve it is to make it even uglier. one thing i never realized until i actually saw it- they never cleaned it up. just left all the rubble there sliding down the hill. that made me laugh. i like it though. kind of in the same way that people like the rocky horror picture show.
I can't wait for Peggy Noonan to start channeling the Gipper.
hmmm, reagan dies...
no post from atrios since...
HOLY SHIT...YOU'RE NOT SAYING...
THEN, IF ATRIOS DOES POST IN THE FUTURE, THAT WOULD MAKE HIM REAGAN'S GHOST!!!!
I'm not sure I could imagine Cary Grant and Eva Marie Saint scaling the face of Reagan.
It's a little thing, but reading this board actually fills me with hope.
When Nixon died and Clinton joined the adoring throng at his memorial service, I really felt as if the entire nation had drunk the KoolAid.
Clearly many, many Americans remember Reagan for being the hate-filled hypocrite that he was. In the face of the nonstop flood of hagiographic nonsense that we've already been fed, this is very, very hopeful.
My own favorite Reagan moment: opening the 1980 general election campaign with a speech about states rights in Philadelphia, MS, site of the most famous lynching of civil rights workers in the 1960s.
To quote Declan McM on a similar figure:
When they finally put you in the ground
They'll stand there laughing and tramp the dirt down.
Good riddance, you evil, evil man!
Don't fall for the Fascists' myth that Reagan did all the "good" they claim by trying to say he actually did all the bad. As we see now with this puppet/empty vessel of a president, it's the people behind the myth, behind the man, that drive the policy. W just also happens to be a prick and a sociopath.
The really dangerous men were behind Reagan, and many of them are still in government, in this administration. We would do better to expose them for what they are than try and tarnish an image that the other side has well-constructed.
We still love you, Smarty Jones. Maybe you'll run it again next year?
And how about this? Budweiser hired a *donkey.* A "smarty" type, too, calling bullshit on a rival's all-American patriotic schtick.
A straight-talking Budweiser donkey has got to be a significant indicator, in the evolution of things. I mean, it's progress from a babe-humping bull terrier named Spuds.
Meanwhile, I don't see much trickle-down glory for Dubya in Reagan's memorials. The most breathless eulogies will only make Shrub appear even more stunted, hated, hapless, tongue-tied, and testy, in comparison.
I don't see Reagan's death as a boon to Dubya's election chances. Then again, Reagan was famously partial to chimps.
We still love you, Smarty Jones. Maybe you'll run it again next year?
To the glue factory with Smarty!
smarty can't run next year. the triple crown is for 3 year olds. you only get one shot.
Just when Josh Marshall publishes something that makes me like him again, he returns to run-of-the-mill pundit mode.
Here's the first sentence of his Reagan's death piece:
"And there he goes, like a candle, long only barely burning, finally being snuffed out."
Why the reverent tone? It sounds as if he wants Sir Elton to record that song yet again. (Actually, that's a pretty good idea...it would at least upset Rick Santorum).
I'm well aware of the real "power" behind the monkey throne, this is about the fact that Reagan was the boogeyman of my teenage years. More than MTV, Dynasty, Rubik's cubes or Hulk Hogan, Reagan personified one of the worst decades ever.
Speaking of the 80s, check out this head-spin...
Glue factory? NTodd, get a clue!
(Or is that just what the kids are calling it nowadays?)
"to the glue factory with smarty."
yikes! he can still race. plus he has a bright future as a semen donor.smarty would sell for at least 30 million dollars even after coming in second today.
Olaf - Aha. (Sniff, sob.) Forgot about that.
Reagan and his friends tricked lots and lots of simple folk to take their first real big gulp of koolaid. We still haven't begun to recover from that farce.
Yossarian,
Amazingly, that was David Stockman making nice about Reagan's economic policies.
very well said, oldboy circle jerk! can i use that line?
As usual, Steve Gilliard nails it. Choice passage:
Reagan began the road of crippling America's ability to care for Americans. Now we have this failed trickle down economic policy pushed by yet another President. One that leaves Americans in record debt and record bankruptcies. Instead of tax rates which fairly distribute the burden of funding America, the rich have been encouraged to avoid their fair share. Ronald Reagan began the bankrupting of America and the creation of a super wealthy CEO class, one where their great grandchildren will never have to work, an aristocracy of trustifarians. Under Reagan hypocracy and selfishness became the rule of the road. Not just in public life, where his staff routinely lied, eventually leading to Iran-Contra.
But if Reagan started to ruin America, his foreign policy left the dead around like fallen leaves. His foreign policy was a disater by any standard. Dead nuns in El Salvador, murdered school teachers in Nicaragua, the tortured in Argentina, the seizure of Grenade, the failed intervention in Lebanon, the aerial assasination attempt on Khaddafi, which led to the bombing of Pam Am flight 103. Reagan's policies left a trail of failure and disaster at every turn.
To the glue factory with Smarty!
Oh my, I was just thinking of a snarky comment wrt Reagan, but I'll refrain. Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue...
OT: Check this kos post and listen to the commercial from NC Paleo-Repug Vernon Robinson.
Unbelievable!! Showing true GOP colors.
blakno1-- mtv didn't really start to suck really bad until the mid to late 80s. before that it was sort of cool.
very well said, oldboy circle jerk! can i use that line?
I would be honored Olaf.
Tackiest Headline Ever: Mourning In America (FOX NEWS of course...)
Was Reagan a horrible President? Yes. (Although the spectacle of GWB rehabilitates Reagan each day.)
Until Dubya came along, I had hoped that Reagan was a one-time aberration, that America couldn't possibly elect another dimwitted warmonger tool who resorted to reciting policies from 3x5 cards when meeting with world leaders; an incurious simpleton who didn't know his ass from a hole in the ground about the state of the world and lived in a mental fantasy-bubble where everything was peachy and comforting.
Now we have another. We are detested by the public, if not the governments of, our long-time allies even more than in the sabre-rattling 80s.
And if I hear "Reagan won the Cold War" one more time, I'm going to puke. Any non-jingoistic evaluation of the collapse of the Soviet bloc probably wouldn't put Reagan in the top5 as far as credit goes.
I used to think his one good maneuver was funding the Mujahedin in Afghhanistan, which bogged down and chewed up the Soviet Army and sucked their imperial pretentions dry. But seeing the blowback we've suffered since from CIA-funded Mujahedin leader Bin Laden, I don't think they'll be rushing to take credit for it.
Not to mention the support of Saddam Hussein during the 80s. So many errors.
blakno1-- mtv didn't really start to suck really bad until the mid to late 80s. before that it was sort of cool.
Olaf glad and big
Same with radio...
Ronnie is dead, and so is the Republican Party.
About time.
Portends of impending Doom, as
the pendulum swings back.......
....Film at eleven.
The somewhat sad thing about Reagan, is that he has been effectively dead for years... as much as didn't like Nancy Reagan, I felt sorry for her... must have been a terrible experience to care for someone in his condition. Oh, and her plea to GW to reverse his stance on stem cell research of course could be seen as selfish, but I think rather she saw how horrible a disease Alzheimers is and feared the shutdown of government funding for stem cell research might prevent an eventual cure. Too bad she didn't feel this way sooner about another horrible affliction, AIDS.
When Reagan got shot, I got on my bus in my run-down slum ghetto ketchup-eatin' hobos-on-the-playground public school and heard about it on the bus-driver's radio. Everyone on the bus and the busdriver was like all right, I hope he dies.
I went home. My mom told me Reagan just got shot. I said I hope he dies.
She said that's a terrible thing to say. Never wish that someone else dies. That's a terrible, terrible thing to wish.
She said that's a terrible thing to say. Never wish that someone else dies.
Tell that to the thousands that died in San Francisco in the early days of the AIDS epidemic.
We are all part of Rev. Moon's world and his church. Even those who don't
support the Unitarians will come to realize that we do indeed support him.
It is just a matter of time. We all have similarities in our DNA, and all of us have a Moon chromosome. Cows eat grass, we eat the Cows, and when we die the grass eats us...blah
blah, blah, donate to our cause, blah.
I'm not wishing that he's dead, I'm rejoicing that he's dead. Two completely different things, you see.
Do the humpty hump...do the humpty hump...
I have just one thought to add about Reagan -- I never thought he was that good a public speaker. If you watch his speeches, he stumbled over words and had pauses while he groped for words (although admittedly not as bad as the current resident in what has become the Offal Office). He had a warm, fuzzy tone to his voice, but his actual delivery was poor. I'd add "fuck him," but I'm not into necrophilia.
Puke Alert:
The Reagan Legacy Project
http://www.reaganlegacy.org/main.htm
The Ronald Reagan Legacy Project's mission is to honor and memorialize the historic achievements of President Ronald Reagan. It aims to do so by naming at least one notable public landmark in each state and all 3067 counties after the 40th president.
Run by Grover Norquist, who wants to "shrink the federal government until it is small enough to drown in a bathtub". At which point the federal government will presumably perform no functions except dishing out massive pork to the military-industrial complex and law enforcement-prison complex, and building thousands of Stalinist monuments to Reagan.
Ron Reagan Jr. should be asked to speak at the Democratic convention. He said in Salon magazine that the Bush administration doesn't speak for his father, and that they were "just plain corrupt".
When Reagan got shot, I got on my bus in my run-down slum ghetto ketchup-eatin' hobos-on-the-playground public school and heard about it on the bus-driver's radio. Everyone on the bus and the busdriver was like all right, I hope he dies.
I was working in a record store. We had the radio on and they actually announced he was dead. Me and several co-workers were quite happy about it, and pretty pissed when they retracted the obit.
Our fears were proven right.
FYI on the flip side of the "shining city" coin:
For we must consider that we shall be as a city upon a hill, the eyes of all people are upon us; so that if we shall deal falsely with our God in this work we have undertaken, and so cause Him to withdraw His present help from us, we shall shame the faces of many of God's worthy servants, and cause their prayers to be turned into curses . . . - John Winthrop, aboard the Arbella, 1630.
See disinfopedia and From Theological Tenet to Political Password, by Kimberly Winston (via belief.net), for more on the America-as-twinkling-metropolis meme.
Dubya's awkward use of it today (which very nearly implied that Ronnie had to *die* to get to *that* town, now that "his work is done") only showed how dimmed and damned even America's myths have become under the current Mayor of Simpleton.
"...must have been a terrible experience to care for someone in his condition."
I've heard so many lefties express this sympathy, but it's almost like they forget something.
No matter how devoted Nancy was to her man, no matter how sick he was, Nancy was not some middle-class stay-at-home housewife caring for her father.
She's very rich; she has all the resources that the VRWC can afford her; she has nothing but help, especially physically. Emotional suffering on her part, well, that's another story entirely. And I grant some sympathy grudgingly for that and that alone.
Nancy's caring for Reagan has almost nothing in common with the average person's experience. Tender your sympathies to this monster accordingly, because Reagan most certainly was a monster who was responsible for the deaths of thousands and thousands of innocent Central Americans.
Anyway.
I know that this is evil, but... it makes me smile to know that Clinton, and by extension HRC, gets a front row seat at the state funeral. Maybe Rush and his ilk will finally just explode because they can't mourn their hero without seeing Bill and Hill.
We still love you, Smarty Jones. Maybe you'll run it again next year?
To the glue factory with Smarty!
Yet another example of the polarization and debasement of our national discourse!
"dubya's awkward use of it today. . ."
oh, did shrub make a speech today? i missed it. last i heard he was in rome being scolded by some kind of big shot priest or something. then reagan died and then the belmont stakes was on.
oh, did shrub make a speech today?
Read it and weep. Or not.
Anyway.
Daddy-O
I wholeheartedly concur, Daddy-O. It's a bit different out here in the trenches when a loved one gets Alzheimers/AIDS/a catastrophic injury/mentally ill... remember, one in seven of us citizens don't even have insurance, let alone a private nurse to change the bedpan or a baby sitter to watch the kids while we change it.
Nora,
Meese was only the third-worst Attorney General ever. John Mitchell wins second-worst, hands down.
Olaf G&B:
The only thing that would improve Mt Rushmore would be America's one true Hero; Alfred E Newman.
If they passed the hat for that, I'd Turkee-up bigtime.
oh yeah, maybe there is a really really bright side to all this fawning. it just makes georgie look 20 times worse in comparison.
and RR did NOT like the Bush family, so nancy ain't gonna help W.
Another Bruce - What? They found more polaroids in the basement - of the Concourse?!
In an Aug. 19, 1992, letter, assistant attorney general Robert S. Mueller dismissed a suggestion that the Moon-backed American Freedom Council should register under FARA because Moon, a South Korean citizen, had obtained U.S. resident-alien status -- or a "green card."
Ronald Reagan?
Listen up all you right wingers who monitor this blog looking for something to use to fuel your "gratuitous and mean-spirited liberal hate" meme:
Piss on his corpse and piss on his pathetic memory . . . and piss on you too.
He was a cruel man, but fair.
Spying on Americans
Perhaps even more remarkable, the Reagan administration showed greater respect for Moon's constitutional rights than those of some U.S. citizens. Starting in 1981, the FBI cooperated with one of Moon's front groups during a five-year nationwide investigation of the Committee in Solidarity with the People of El Salvador (CISPES), a domestic organization critical of Reagan's policies in Central America, according to FBI documents cited by The Boston Globe. [April 20, 1988]
He taught the world that ketchup was a vegetable.
We shall not look upon his like again.
He was no wimp;He killed Moamar Kadafi's daughter with a missile
strike.
Cruise missile fever--Catch it!!
Moon & the Putschists
Among the first well-wishers arriving in La Paz to congratulate the new government was Moon's top lieutenant, Bo Hi Pak. The Moon organization published a photo of Pak meeting with Gen. Garcia Meza. After the visit to the mountainous capital, Pak declared, "I have erected a throne for Father Moon in the world's highest city."
According to later Bolivian government and newspaper reports, a Moon representative invested about $4 million in preparations for the coup. Bolivia's WACL representatives also played key roles, and CAUSA, one of Moon's anti-communist organizations, listed as members nearly all the leading Bolivian coup-makers. [CAIB, Winter 1986]
...
According to Levine, Arce-Gomez boasted to one top trafficker: "We will flood America's borders with cocaine." It was boast that the coup-makers backed up.
I think the repubs have been setting Moon vs. Soros up for some time. Conservative leaders know they are traitors for working with Moon, helping him drive us right and THEOCRATIC. The only thing around is to DEMONIZE Soros and call everything else a conspiracy theory and hang on. This whole thing with Soros is set up, IMHO, a defense. It really is a very, very poor comparison. Moon has spent BILLIONS on the right and disrupted and ripped off families all over the world.
If it finally makes people look at what Moon has done, so be it. The press won't want to report it because they will look dumber than when they fell for the WMD LIES.
Rush defending Moon is what I am waiting to hear.
Soros ever express any thoughts like this? These are NOT two people who should be compared.
"Reverend Moon looked at me straight in the eye and said, 'America is Satanic. America is so Satanic that even hamburgers should be considered evil, because they come from America'," recalled Stacey. "Hamburgers! My father was a butcher, so that bothered me. ... I started feeling that I was betraying my country."
Moon's criticism of Jesus also unsettled Stacey. "In the church, it's very anti-Jesus," Stacey said. "Jesus failed miserably. He died a lonely death. Reverend Moon is the hero that comes and saves pathetic Jesus. Reverend Moon is better than God. ... That's why I left the Moonies. Because it started to feel like idolatry. He's promoting idolatry."
These are NOT two people who should be compared.
Maybe I should say 'these are two people who don't compare."
I think JGs chart is terrific.
I'll reluctantly take Mr. Soros' money.
As much as I would like to besmirch the man, Reagan was a pop-icon of my youth... I heard of him being shot while climbing aboard my publicly funded school bus. At the time, living next to a SAC (Strategic Air Command) Air Force base, I was more concerned with getting incinerated by an opportunistic first strike...
Not that I defend his policies:
Fund the Mujahadeen(sp?), Iran Contra, Ignore AIDS, etc...
It is admittedly difficult to malign a man in the death-throws of Alzheimer’s disease. Who may have been suffering symptoms of that disease long before he retired...
Okay, I have scored a Karma point or two... maybe.
Pffft... I don't believe in that either.
"Listen up all you right wingers who monitor this blog looking for something to use to fuel your "gratuitous and mean-spirited liberal hate" meme:"
Thanks, but before all the corpse-pissing started, we were sort of interested to see why Soros' blood money is somehow better than the Moonies'. How wise of you to change the topic!
Gemini, you're right. I think I blotted Mitchell out of my memory as a truly scary, fascistic man.
My excuse is that I was a little young when Mitchell roamed the earth, and I was in college and law school when Meese did his bit, so Meese was more vivid to me.
we were sort of interested to see why Soros' blood money is somehow better than the Moonies'.
Er... when did Soros advocate genocide and treason? I must have missed that speech.
why Soros' blood money is somehow better than the Moonies'
See what I mean? This is not a fair comparison, the mind trained will pass Moon off in the same breath as Soros because they are TOLD what to think they will never look for themselves. The cult of conservatism has given their critical thinking to others who are setting them up to think Soros and Moon are on the same field.
This is one of the grandest mental manipulations of the masses in history.
I suggest you get your head out of Rush's ass long enough to see what the differences are, they are HUGE.
Soros ever say anything like this?
http://www.consortiumnews.com/ar...hive/
moon3.html
Yet, Moon also made clear that his longer-range goal was the destruction of the U.S. Constitution and America's democratic form of government. "History will make the position of Reverend Moon clear, and his enemies, the American population and government will bow down to him," Moon said, speaking of himself in the third person. "That is Father's tactic, the natural subjugation of the American government and population."
____
There are hundreds examples of this lying deceitful organization expressing their plan to subvert the constitution and drive us towards an americanized theocracy. Moon hate democracy as he dislikes communism.
Conservative TRAITORS sold the country out to his extremist anti american views and we are paying for it with Bush.
Here: this is how Moon made BILLIONs to manipulate the country.
I thought Soros played with the big boys in the money markets. An institution created for the purpose. Moon made billions by ripping off little old widows.
In short Moon is anti-American cult leader who has disrupted families all over the world and conned billions out of individuals. He claims he is the messiah and Jesus failed his mission...are you starting to 'get it'?
Conservative leaders are TRAITORS.
okay, we'll bite.
we were sort of interested to see why Soros' blood money is somehow better than the Moonies'
-First of all, as the land of a dictatorship is not the nation of its people, so this is not about the "Moonies' money" but about Moon himself. So this is a lie straight off. It's not Soros vs the Moonies, it's Soros vs Holocaust Apologist Moon.
-Okay, fucking pathological liar, "blood money" is money to kill someone. Who has Soros killed? Oh, that's right, according to you Nazis he was the one who was supposded to die.
-There's less of it.
-It doesn't come from a holocaust apologist. That's right, not a holocaust denier but someone who thinks that the holocaust was just.
-It doesn't come from someone with a serious criminal record.
-It doesn't come from someone who thinks he is Jesus, as well as several other past figures.
-It doesn't come from someone vocal about wanting the destruction of our country and all it stands for. Indeed, this stated goal means that that is the purpose of Moon's money.
-Soros has done the opposite, actually fostered democracy in numerous places.
-The self-made wealth of a man who escaped (he did not "survive", that implies he endured more than he did and refers to camp survivors) the Holocaust and is trying to make his country more democratic is inherently and obviously better tnan the bribery of a megamoniacal monster seeking the death of his opponents and world conquest.
"Er... when did Soros advocate genocide and treason? I must have missed that speech."
Wow, whatta a bunch of maroons. Soros is responsible directly for inducing more tangible global harm than Moon could ever hope to accomplish, however superficially Moon seems to outdo Soros on the nutcase meter (and it's a lot closer than you think.) Your "self-made man" enriched himself at a cost of countless wrecked fortunes in the Pacific Rim, Russia and elsewhere. Soros was furthermore convicted of a REAL FELONY in a French court. Please -- if this guy were a Republican donor we'd never hear the end of it. I guess launching leveraged assaults on third world economies is what passes for a work ethic with you guys-- gotta say it makes me scratch my head.
"-It doesn't come from someone with a serious criminal record."
"-It doesn't come from someone who thinks he is Jesus,"
"The self-made wealth .."
Ha, Ha , fucking HA! You know nothing, imbecile. Ask gangster Khodorovsky how many deaths Soros has subsidised. Since when can radical free marketeer currency speculators buy themselves liberal respect so easily? What transparent prostitution!
Not that I'm surprised, but you didn't answer my question.
if this guy were a Republican donor we'd never hear the end of it.
Yeah, just like the liberal media closed ranks and popped the fake Monica scandals in the first week with exposes of Weyrich, Coors and Scaife.
That and the fact that his name is Guano is our entire response to this laughable Nazism. Maybe now that rightists are people who think the Holocaust was just, "liberal" will creep back to respectability.
Undersecretary of clulessness kei & yuri, anyone superficially familiar with Soros' career and the origin of his wealth can identify his hypocrisy. I don't see how wrecking the Thai and Malay economies, rubbing elbows with russian flathead gangsters and Carlyle group beltway whores qualifies one for liberal sainthood, unless it can simply be bought as seems to be the case.
Guano, did he or did he not accept the Holocaust as a just response to "Jewish perfidy in the murder of Jesus Christ"?
Exactly where has Soros professed to be Jesus and others and to be in contact with the dead, as Moon has?
Did he or did he not openly seek world domination, the destruction of the Constitution or the murder of everyone he hates?
Soros could be a regular scumbag like Gates or Murdoch-which he is not-and he would still be better than Moon.
Jeez no Naked Gun, he did none of those things, and he isn't Korean either, and his name is different as well.... only his ACTUAL influence on the world of political affairs has been spectacularly WORSE than Moon's despite his superficial liberalism and soft-headed public philosophical musings. Soros occupies the same bracket as fellow scumbag speculator Marc Rich. Were it not for his enormous ego, he too might be holed up in Switzerland under armed guard rather than contaminating world affairs and public opinion with his ill-gotten loot.
Guano, I'd be interested in any concrete info on Soros-subsidized harm, as you say. Seriously, I do intend to be fair in my chart, and not to whitewash Soros.
On the other hand, I'm not sure you're aware of Moon's direct ties to all sorts of South American junta excess in the 1980s. And the subject of his hate speech remains.
JohnG, obviously you and I have different ideas about the potency of "hate speech" and the threat it poses to the civilised world. Soros' career has brought catastrophe upon the heads of millions of third world poor on a scale Rev. Moon is incapable of approaching. The comparison is absurd.
As is amply documented elsewhere, Soros is as much responsible for the Asian currency crisis as any individual human being can be (and its attendant rioting, many deaths and civil unrest.) While clucking about the dangers of unabated currency trading and derivatives, Soros has used those same vehicles for massive personal and largely untaxed and unmonitored enrichment [his fund operates from Curaçao), then tossed some pocket change toward a few pet liberal causes in order to quell his guilty conscience and win adulation from gullible saps among the press. Quoth Soros: "When you speculate in the financial markets you are free of most of the moral concerns that confront an ordinary businessman.. .I did not have to concern myself with moral issues in the financial markets." There's your hero in a nutshell. I will leave it to you to research Soros' 100 million dollar stake in the Carlyle Group, or his bailout of Bush's oil company in 1986 in order to "buy political influence." This guy makes Jeff Skilling look like a rookie.
Hey, he's not my hero, and I'd be interested in any links you have on his hand in the Asian currency crisis. In fact, I might even insert that "no moral responsibility" quote. But you're attacking Soros on a much different basis than most of the conservative press, which has attacked him for
1) expressing supposedly eccentric and shocking views
2) influencing *American* politics in some underhanded way.
On those two grounds alone, Moon deserves as much press attention as Soros, but he's completely unknown to the average American, who's been led to believe that Soros is the only shady financial figure affecting his life.
Moon did destroy the biggest bank in Uruguay once.
This from Paul Krugman:
The most peculiar aspect of the Asian crisis has been the reaction of some of the region's leaders. Malaysia's Prime Minister, Mahathir bin Mohamed, has taken the lead, blaming the crisis on the conspiratorial activities of George Soros (whom he has described as a "moron"), prompted by U.S. government officials. Unless new evidence surfaces, this claim is even odder than it sounds: as far as market participants are aware, Soros was not even a player in this crisis, and indeed seems to have guessed wrong, buying Malaysian ringgit. Mahathir temporarily imposed limits on stock trading intended to stop the alleged conspiracy, and has made public calls for an end to currency trading that have made financial markets understandably nervous that he might try to impose capital controls.
Guano, you wouldn't look like such a Rushbot spewing your latest training if it remotely looked like you had ANY idea who Moon is and what he is about.
Moon has more to do with your opinions and your "mindset' than you will ever know because right wingers NEVER look at their own shit to see who and where it came from. They gave up critical thinking to Rush and Savage and Fox long ago.
This is what I figured would happen. The mentally trained to rationalize and protect the cult of conservatism, will NEVER undertsand what they did to this country starting the day when Reagan first drooled on a Washington Times.
Wingnuts can't look at themselves critically, introspectively, they can't do it.
mw: I know very well who Moon is and all about his kooky opinions. This is part of why I would never accept a check from the man under any circumstances, and why I don't read his rag (though you apparently do.) Your suggestion that I watched Fox news made me chuckle. Thank you for the unintended hilarity.
JohnG, of course Soros shorted both the Ringgit and (in far greater quantities) the Baht; such positions accounted for large gains reported by Tiger and Quantum in that year and are public knowledge. The Krugman quote is highly peculiar (and old) and I doubt he would stand by it today.
Soros also helped hasten the ringgit's plunge by publicly denouncing Malaysias finance minister as a menace, all for the crime of defending this leveraged assault on his currency with capital controls intended to ward off predatory speculators like Soros himself. Saint George also hastened the plunge of the Taiwanese stock market by illegally shorting it through proxy funds.
The recent alliance of George Soros with the left wing is bizarre. This is an enemy of developing states who considers himself above the rule of law and any standard of professional responsibility. Do you think someone who pushes whole countries into bankruptcy from his tax-remote island on behalf of himself and his ultra rich investors can be a liberal hero? I for one do NOT.
More broadly JohnG, I am wary when ultra-wealthy people use their wealth to skirt our laws and push a political agenda, even when I may agree with that agenda. Soros is greatly abusing the soft money laws he helped put in place. In my opinion he is a cynical egomaniac and does not deserve the disproportionate influence over political affairs he quite obviously commands.
"That and the fact that his name is Guano is our entire response to this laughable Nazism"
On the topic of Nazis, kei the clueless, you should note that Soros himself lived out WWII working for the SS under a false identity, confiscating the property of his fellow Jews. Perhaps this is where he acquired his unique scheme of morality.
What?, don't they know who we are? http://order-homehobby.fateback.com/
freaking BS, I enjoyed the IP http://www.thispot.com/new-york-...k-
exchange.html
freaking BS, I enjoyed the IP http://www.thispot.com/new-york-...k-
exchange.html
Characters Remaining:
Commenting by HaloScan
