I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Freeow. Like Steve says, wacky. Reminds me somewhat of the platform of the UKIP - based upon the single regret, that Britain ever signed into the EEC. Here, it seems to be more fundamental than that: as if they regret there being a United States at all.
Ah, that it weren't early morning, and I weren't lazy and tired, and would look this up on Google.
But, back during the "regular" session of the Legislature (six months every two years, just like our Reconstruction-era state Constitution requires), hearings were held on school finance (still a mess, after two special sessions just on that issue), and a representative stated (more or less): "Where does the idea come from that people should have access to a free education? I'll tell you where it comes from. It comes from Communist Russia! It comes from the mouth of hell!"
Her objection (I do remember the rep. was a she) was that illegal aliens, under the Plyler decision (S.Ct. case declaring illegal aliens were entitled to equal protection of laws, and could not be denied a public school education on the grounds they were in this country illegally; ironically, a case out of Tyler, Texas, from my old school district. "Plyler" was Jim Plyler, then superintendent of the Tyler school district), illegal alien children were getting an education.
The fact that they pay property taxes (in the form of rent) apparently meant nothing (property tax being the primary source of state revenue). It was still an idea from the mouth of hell, to provide publicly funded education.
Oh, it's great to live in Texas, so long as you keep your sense of humor.
"This is like watching Trotskyites and Maoists battle each other over meaning in their self-created fantasy world."
Politics as bad philosophy, then. No wonder the Straussians are having a field day.
The values and world vision of the movement today can be found enshrined in the 24-page party platform. It's a fearful, twilight looking-glass world, beset by enemies, where the purity of the culture, under constant siege, must be protected from threats both internal and external.
This comes straight from the Southern Baptists who, despite the fact they (literally and figuratively) own the State, have never gotten beyond their cultural roots when the church was popular only among poor and disenfranchised whites (one reason the church is so strongly opposed to alcohol; liquour being the scourge of many a poor community, where poverty leads to despair leads to heavy drinking).
They still have to see themselves as beset by enemies in order to have an identity as God's chosen (whom the world despises). It proves their purity.
And yeah, it's a scary mindset that leads to all sorts of aberrant results in public policy. Like an affirmation that all are free to practice their own religion (another tenet of Baptist belief; they began as fiercely in favor of church/state separation; more Jeffersonian than Jefferson, in the beginning) while basically advocating that only one form of Christian worship is the "true" religion (which is why the world hates it, because "the world" hates "the truth," a persecution theory of Xianity that goes back to the Gospel of John).
Coffee. Need coffee to sort out my thoughts....
OT: I'm guessing you already know about this
Does rather (after the election drubbing) sound like Ole Mikey's trying to bash the horse on the backside with the stable door as it's leaving...
Massa's in de cold ground.
We'll no longer hear the sound
Of the two-bit bromide,
Meant to divide,
The sane from the pious hidebound.
"The GOP is so rent with ideological battles and bigotry, they have no solutions to real issues."
They do it on purpose. They get people all riled up about things that
cannot and should not be decided by
the government and then they watch
with glee as the public attacks itself and takes sides. Enough of
this bullsh*t. Want democracy and want it now! And eggs & french toast. Am hungry.
RMJ: only one form of Christian worship is the "true" religion (which is why the world hates it, because "the world" hates "the truth," a persecution theory of Xianity that goes back to the Gospel of John).
Sounds slightly Gnostic to me: then again, despite the handle, I'm no theological expert.
"The GOP is so rent with ideological battles and bigotry, they have no solutions to real issues."
They do it on purpose. They get the
public all riled up about issues
that cannot and SHOULD NOT be decided by a government and then watch with glee whilest the public
attacks each other and chooses sides. Nuff of this BS. Want democracy and want it now! Also, want
french toast and eggs. am hungry
TheaLogie--
It is "Gnostic." But that's because we associate Gnosticism largely with the Gospel of John (it is Gnostic, but not wholly so, nor the only branch thereof).
Of course, Gnosticism comes in no small part from Platonism, and since Socrates was put to death, there's a real strain of "us against the world" from the very beginning, isn't there?
Anyway, back to John: his gospel was clearly written for a group of Jews who became Xians and were banned from the synagogue for their beliefs. It has since become the favorite of many conservative and fundamentalist believers, as it is a handbook for "us against the world" theologies.
Nothing ever goes away. Whatever is in the seed when it is planted, remains in the plant that is grown.
As someone who has been reading on this site for some time without posting, I'd like to apologize to
you for the (mis)behavior of all these religious wackos. Texas is beyond comical - it's insane. I'm moving to Mexico as soon as possible.
Let me take this opportunity to say Steve Gilliard has been particularly good the past few weeks. His dissection of Reagan should have been on the front page of the Times. He tore apart Judy Miller with the precision of a surgeon. And his prescience regarding all things Iraq over the past year has been breathtaking. If you don't read this guy every day, start now! He even writes about food!
Dave is right. Steve Gilliard has been good of late. I'm for starting a fund to buy Steve an ice cream maker. Something to follow up that BBQ!
From the 2002 Texas GOP Convention a vision of tomorrow's 'meruca.
The platform calls for "deportation of aliens if they do not carry the required ID." Illegal immigrants should not be granted drivers’ licenses. Voter registration is to be made more difficult. "American English" is the official language of the state and "the Party supports the termination of bilingual education programs in Texas."
A plank entitled "equality for all citizens" urges the repeal of hate crimes legislation. Another states: "We oppose any criminal or civil penalties against those who oppose homosexuality out of faith, conviction, or belief in traditional values." Since the Bible is the Truth, teachers should have the right to instruct their public school students in "creation science." And those women who choose to terminate their pregnancies should be charged criminally. Lest anyone forget, "America is a Christian nation."
Workers are on their own in this mean-spirited netherworld: "The Party believes the Minimum Wage Law should be repealed." All efforts to extend workers’ compensation laws are to be stopped. And Texas’ anti-union Right-to-Work statutes should be enshrined in the state constitution.
The government is not to be trusted either. That is, most of the time. Although, "the greatest threat to individual liberties is government control," the Party "support[s] reasonable use of racial profiling by law enforcement." The platform calls for the abolition of the U.S. Department of Education, the Surgeon General, the Environmental Protection Agency, the Department of Energy, the Department of Housing and Urban Development, the Department of Commerce, the Department of Labor, and the Internal Revenue Service, along with most taxes. Ominously, the conspiracy runs deeper than just the U.S. government. "The Party urges Congress to evict the United Nations from the United States and eliminate any further participation." The platform demands the return of the Panama Canal, too.
I'll third that on Steve G. One of the stops in my 'net browsing lineup everytime I sit down.
Did anybody catch his post on "The Rapture" with this great line: "What do these people think heaven is, some kind of Super Texas, where there is only those who think like them and everyone else gets screwed?"
A sublime post.
http://stevegilliard.blogspot.co...04/
rapture.html
I rather liked the bit about church/state separation, especially keeping the IRS and Social Security from taxing churches.
They don't, of course. But there are no small number of very wealthy Baptist and non-denominational ministers in Texas. And the little known fact is that ministers pay taxes as self-employed persons, not as employees.
Which means they pay twice the Social Security employees pay. The church can reimburse the pastor for the "employers" portion of that tax, but that reimbursement is then taxable as income by the IRS.
And, of course, they pay income taxes.
A strange provision, until you know that little bit of info. I wonder how many wealthy pastors it took to work that one into the party platform.
Too much talk about food this morning, and too little action. Everyone go get breakfast, come back with full tummies and happy, happy thoughts.
The entire effing front page of the paper this morning is covered with Reagan residue. Is the man still dead or what?
Steve G. do good work.
Did anybody catch his post on "The Rapture" with this great line: "What do these people think heaven is, some kind of Super Texas, where there is only those who think like them and everyone else gets screwed?"
Favorite shop-worn Joke: St. Peter is showing a new arrival around heaven. Passes several areas, where happy people frolic, each according to their own religion/denomination. Suddenly they come upon a walled compound, with a very high wall and lots of happy noise coming from inside, and St. Peter whispers as they tip-toe by.
New arrival asks, after they have passed, about this behavior. St. Peter explains:
"Those are the Southern Baptists. They think they're the only ones here."
billy grahm love money more than
anything else. rakes in more than
madonna.
Trotskyites and Maoists"?
Please.
More like the Hatfields and McCoys.
Kudos to Robert Jeffers, for putting his finger directly on the source of Southern Baptist/fundamentalist paranoia.
Those of you who grew up in other parts of the country tend to have a view of the South as a fundamentalist hellhole. In actuality, religion was a defining mark of social status in the south up until the late 70s at least; and in the rural south as opposed to the urban "new" south, it still is.
Episcopalians sat atop the heap. Your small town bankers were typically all Episcopalians. Successful businessmen and professionals were Episcopalian or Presbyterian, and these two groups made up the membership of the country clubs. There were a smattering of Methodists in business and the professions as well. For the most part, southern people of these faiths were, and remain, sane and rational.
Then there were the Baptists and other fundies, most of whom were former sharecroppers or descended from them. What used to be politically-incorrectly called "white trash". The bottom of the ladder, just above the blacks, and very resentful of it, which gave birth to the paranoia and the need to believe that only they would be rewarded in the next world. They railed against anyone having any fun, because they couldn't afford it. Rather than reveal their envy, they painted it as "wickedness" that they wouldn't engage in even if they could.
Now that many of them have risen up the economic ladder, they still haven't dropped the persecution complex, perhaps because they know that their faith still marks them as second-class in the old social hierarchy.
I still remember the kid on the playground in second grade who informed me that I was "going to HAIL!" because I wasn't a Baptist, and the third grade teacher/Baptist minister's wife who "taught" us that "California is going to fall into the ocean because the people there are so wicked." The lunacy has very deep roots.
Yeah GWPDA,just how friggin long does it take to plant a schnook in the ground?.........Todays GOP is merely David Koresh with a good press agent.Pass the ammo,Im only a thousand miles from Texas.
Lately I'm thinking it might be good
idea to keep handgun around. Least
we can go down fighting. sometimes
wonder if banning guns really a gop
agenda.
Steve G is doing great stuff... We need him to come and cover Boston.
Now that many of them have risen up the economic ladder, they still haven't dropped the persecution complex, perhaps because they know that their faith still marks them as second-class in the old social hierarchy.
Not to mention the hypocrisy. Oldest joke in Smith County (Texas; Tyler is the county seat), a "dry" county (no liquor sales allowed) was that we had to sober up the Baptists to vote down any proposal to allow liquor sales in the county.
Biggest bunch of drunks I ever saw. Couldn't admit it, of course. The "open secret" of the town. Long as nobody admitted to drinking, they could all drink together in the privacy of their homes.
Weirdest cognitive dissonance imaginable.
Does rather (after the election drubbing) sound like Ole Mikey's trying to bash the horse on the backside with the stable door as it's leaving...
TheaLogie
Thea, thanks for the link. Michael Moore may be planning to do his docu on Blair before your elections next yr. But as you rightly said, I hope that Blair is thrown out before the year is out. I used to like Blair so much during Cliton yrs, now I hate that sob. IF he had not supported it early on, we could have avoided the war. He should pay the price for that.
Hah! I saw the movie SAVED! the night before last. Very funny, very sweet (but probably only so if you are not currently a fundamentalist/ charismatic Christian). One of the most striking things for me is the combination of affluence and charismatic Christianity in the movie. It reminded me of my high school. If you want a break, go see.
Know why Baptists don't make love standing up?
They're afraid someone might see them and think they're dancing.
Ok folks. You all know me as I'm the guy who wants us to stock up on our guns before the right wingers come at us, and since my wife is 2nd generation Puerto Rican I am not entirely in the 'Blame the wetbacks' group.
But since I am also an engineer I'm one of those types who gets a hard-on over establishing engineering standards from which to work by. I get annoyed when we have thousands of people, tens of thousands, writing code or designing hardware without regard to a standard that others can relate to and interract with.
So when it comes to establishing English as the official language of the United States I see no problem with it. I know why the bigots are against it, but also see establishing an official language as the eventual deathknell of these people.
So what happens if we create an official language? We have everyone speaking a common tongue preventing the bigots from discriminating if they are also unable to identify the person(s) around them by race or nationality. My wife does not look hispanic in the slightest until you hear her accent, and if they look more white than hispanic, the bigots will be unable to jump to conclusions.
I'm of the mind to assume that most bigotry starts due to aggravation from enduring slight hassles. A person asking a question, or making an order at a restaurant, can't get his order placed or it's filled incorrectly, because the person across from him speaks little english. Take that factor away from his thinking and he goes back to 'laziness and youthful ignorance' accountable to generational differences rather than race or nationality.
So I like the idea of creating an official language since adapting it will eventually prevent the bigots from having one more reason to complain. If they're not complaining about language they night lighten up and realize that hispanics do come with blonde hair like my wife.
MYOB'
.
Thomas Frank made the excellent point that these guys never really deliver for their base...abortion doesn't get outlawed, the culture wars are never won, etc.
If you look at the culture wars as being analogous to the "War on Terror," it makes a lot of sense. The goal isn't to win...partially because to win is impossible, and partially because to "win" on abortion would actually be a crushing defeat that would splinter the GOP for all times. The goal is constant battle, and an endless rallying of the troops (and an endless siphoning of the troops' $$$$). The problem is, they have to keep fanning the hysteria higher...it's like their base comprises outrage junkies who need a continually larger fix.
I think the number of GOP politicians who actually care--in a moral sense--whether women have abortions or gays get married or the Ten Commandments are posted in courthouses is vanishingly small. If the fundies became Satanists overnight, most of these guys would be agitating for pictures of Anton LaVey in every courthouse in America.
Thanks for the kind words.
I wouldn't make ice cream, I don't really like it that much. If I want some, I'll go to Ben and Jerry's. I much rather have shaved ice or gelato.
So, save the cash for my laptop drive. I need a lighter laptop than my contributed, and very useful Kanga powerbook.
Which is connected to me going to Boston. If I feel up to it, I will go for a day, these things are boring. But I may just check it out for fun.
wonks are the oil of government. and the bush maladministration is heading towards a seized economic engine. as is texass.
Robert M. Jeffers, here you go, courtesy of Molly Ivins:
Republican state representative Debbie Riddle (said), "Where did this idea come from that everybody deserves free education, free medical care, free whatever? It comes from Moscow, from Russia. It comes straight out of the pit of hell."
Hell, at the rate we're going towards dumping the Constitution and the Checks and Balances, the Texas Republicans may deliver on some of that stuff yet!
And if they do succeed in that English-Official-Language nonsense, where will that leave Bush? Learning a new language becomes much more diffucult as you get older.
ironically, a case out of Tyler, Texas, from my old school district. "Plyler" was Jim Plyler, then superintendent of the Tyler school district), illegal alien children were getting an education.
Robert:
I grew up in the Tyler area myself.
The judge who heard that case was William Wayne Justice--that really was his name, and he was Public Enemy #1 in Tyler. His was the only house I'd ever seen with a massive security system, including bomb protection over the windows...in the 1980s. He got death threats just about every day. It was surreal.
Judge Justice is one of the most respected and liberal judges out there. I think he was the judge who ruled in Tyler's desgregation case. Some of his other decisions were the case that required Texas to employ bilingual education in public school curricula (can't remember the name of it right now), and Ruiz v. Johnson, a landmark prisoners' rights case that was a slap in the face of a Texas Governor named George W. Bush.
From Ocnus.net:
William Justice, ruled that Texas' entire penal system was pervaded by a "culture of sadistic and malicious violence." Presiding over a lengthy prisoner rights case, Justice concluded that Texas prison guards routinely rely on excessive force, officials turn a blind eye to sexual enslavement, and the state's supermaximum-security units function as "virtual incubators of psychoses."
Hm... Maybe I need to post that up at the Abu Ghraib thread, too...
Tiny Url is down right now, so I'll post the link here, separated after "publish/"
http://www.ocnus.net/artman/
publ...cle_12254.shtml
The bilingual education case I mentioned before was US v. Texas (1981).
How do you tell a Methodist from a Baptist?
The Methodist will speak to you at the liquor store.
Speaking from experience, I will tell you that most texas republicans would read this platform and nod their heads saying, "so what's the problem?"
This isn't a reflection of some out-there wing of the party. It is the party.
The California GOP is pretty far right, but probably not as much as this platform of the Tejas GOP.
The CA R-Nuts believed in 'purity' so much that they got themselves voted into oblivion (only 1 Repug state office holder before Arnold). After several rounds of that, they got themselves redeemed with Arnold, but at the price of their mock-purity. But the wingnuts are still there in CA gooperland.
The Texas R-Nuts won't be getting more reasonable until they are no longer a factor in state politics, but they have a long way to go before then. Their platform is the platform of those truly unafraid of any political backlash. But the time will come....
On wonkery:
"wonks are the oil of government"
I mostly agree with pansypoo's comment above.
If fake Texans like Bush are 'all hat and no horse', government without wonks is 'all politics and no policy'.
So, while its probably true that wonks are not 'in' right now (and I haven't looked for Atrios' earlier posts on this), I don't think wonkery should be frowned upon within the think tanks and inner circles of government.
The Bush political lower layers in appointed positions are all hackey pols and empty-headed robots, and that is a major way to get into deep crap, like Iraq (worry about the occupation later, folks).
Clinton was the ultimate product of politics and wonkery, and thats not bad, although it could be argued that the wonkery should be somewhat invisible, since most people are confused by too many choices being visible (but NOT hidden, like the Cheney Energy Task Force, the DoJ Torture Justifying Working Group).
I'm hoping for some policy wonks with experience, willingness to listen and debate, and mature judgment in President Kerry's administration.
*sigh*
in an ideological "world" of crossworshippers, deniers of evolution and non-Jewish Holocaust victims and global warming and alternative fuel viability, of neoNazi imperialism and deregulationism and globalizationism and "science" enslaved to corporate insanity and mindless gut-condemnations of single-payer and lying about "socialism" even as we work with the socialist nations who surround us,
you really gotta resort to Trots vs ANSWER for a metaphor of blinded ideologues arguing about church dogma?
Oh, we forgot, no enemy is so much on an American's mind as a defeated one.
The reason why Texas public schools are underfunded is because Mexicans in the Valley and elsewhere are a parasitical force, rapidly destroying their host. Wealthier districts lose money to these poorer schools in order to keep them afloat, but at too great a cost to their own success. That's why we're losing our art and music departments and making kids pay for participating in extracurricular activities: to give migrant kids a place to not give a shit about anything for seven hours a day and to keep them off the streets for as long as possible. There's too many of them paying too few dollars in taxes and making too many demands on the local infrastructure.
But I want to know why you liberals are so opposed to making English our official language. There is a theoretical advantage in promoting bilingualism, but as it is practiced, there is none. What you get is a kid illiterate in two languages when you do a half-assed job at instructing in both.
English is the most important language in the world. If you "no borders" idiots truly wanted to see these poor Mexican and other Latino kids get ahead and participate fully in our system of government and way of life, you'd knock it off with this bilingual bullshit and insist that they learn the language of their new country. Balkanization is resegregation. Why do you tools want that?
Si, Don Toby Putzoid, we eenfest your white ass like the worm een the agave! We will take the stolen half of our country back, huero!
Toby:
You apparently do not understand the situation in the Valley.
I lived in the Valley, for many years.
It is one of the fastest growing regions in the country--and not because Hispanics are breeding like crazy.
The Valley has one of the highest unemployment rates in the nation, mostly because they have a great number of migrant farm workers, and the farms are rapidly disappearing in the Valley. And there's another reason for the high unemployment rate as well. An ugly one.
What is disgusting is that the Valley, a region encompassing thousands of square miles, did not receive adequate investment in education prior to the 90s. Public school funding was so pathetic in one town that a drug dealer put up the bond for a new high school.
It was only in the mid-90s that the Valley had ANY public universities. There were no public junior colleges in towns like McAllen and Harlingen, much larger cities than towns like Kilgore, Athens, and Carthage up in the boonies of East Texas, which did have jr. colleges.
Don't even try to dispute the fact that the reason East Texas got money for jr. colleges and the Valley didn't was because East Texas had mostly white people and the Valley was almost entirely Hispanic. It's patently obvious that this is indeed the case, and this is why MALDEF sued and WON for more investment in education in the Valley. It was a fucking disgrace, and continues to be one.
So the reason the Valley is getting such enormous portions of state funds is because the funds weren't expended in the past. The state of Texas is having to make up for ignoring the Valley all those years, and well they must.
Post got cut off, so here's the rest...
So another of the reasons why the unemployment rate in the Valley is so high is because the area is growing, rapidly, but the people there do not have the necessary education and skills to get decent jobs. It all ties together. It's not the only reason for the high unemployment, of course. But it damned sure doesn't help.
The reason why Texas public schools are underfunded is because Mexicans in the Valley and elsewhere are a parasitical force, rapidly destroying their host.
You know, I'm out here in California...but I just spent the entire day doing construction work with some Mexican and Central American "parasites." Some of the sweetest, most good-natured, most honest, and hardest working people I've ever met. And even with thick accents, they spoke english a hell of a lot better than Herr Putzeld writes it.
In my opinion, this shithole of a country could use a LOT more of them, and a lot fewer pea-brained jerkoffs like Toby.
Let's see, for the most useless people on the planet, it's a close tie between Trotskyites and Maoists. They worship murderers and would rather fight among themselves.
Don't like my example? Tough shit.
Let's see, for the most useless people on the planet, it's a close tie between Trotskyites and Maoists. They worship murderers and would rather fight among themselves.
They're also an exotic, cultish, impotent minority. The government and what passes for discourse is currently composed largely of people much scarier, and who, far from merely worshipping murderers, are mass-muderers.
Not that it matters. It was an acceptable construction, it's just wierd how every ten seconds the Americans must remind themselves of their victories. Wonder what's on the Hitler Channel[s] tonight.
LJ:
So another of the reasons why the unemployment rate in the Valley is so high is because the area is growing, rapidly, but the people there do not have the necessary education and skills to get decent jobs. It all ties together. It's not the only reason for the high unemployment, of course. But it damned sure doesn't help.
I'm not following your argument. The population in the Valley is growing rapidly, but why is that? Because Pancho and Imelda know which side of the Rio Grande they want to be on when it's time for their babies to be delivered or when they've got a sick child or when they want to park their kids at a nursery (i.e., a public school).
Much of this is attributable to their Catholic upbringing. Too few Mexicans put the proper emphasis on educating their children, which leaves them ill-prepared to take on the kinds of jobs that will deliver them from a low-income existence. Thus, they are condemned to lives of superstition and ignorance. Wherever women are second-class citizens, this is what you get. Which is why they need to be open about birth-control so that there won't be so many mouths to feed. This is a consequence of anti-democratic and authoritarian cultural failures, the expectations of which are imported into the United States. You get balkanization and ghettoization of their communities. It's a real shame, but what can anyone do about it now? Nothing.
My comment at Gilliard's place:
They're such idiots- with the "Christian Nation" bit in particular. I cite the Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11:
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
Musselmen = Muslims, Mahometan = Mohammedan = Islamic.
This treaty was signed in 1796 (ratified in 1797). At the time it was signed, Washington was President, when it was ratified, Adams was. Since, under the Constitution's Article 6,
"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding."
... that the United States is not in any way founded on the Christian religion was written into law by one of our earliest Congresses. As well as being OK with Islam and Islamic nations and not going into war with them over religion, but that's just a bonus.
Oh, I should also note, the Treaty of Tripoli was approved unanimously.
Thank you, Jake Nelson, for providing us with the Treaty. I had heard of it before, but was too damn lazy to dig it up. Someone on another thread a while back mentioned another similar treaty (similar in that it denied that the US is a Christian nation) -- my brain is fading a bit, I want to say it was called the "Barbados Treaty"??? Well, it began with "B." Do you know that one as well?
Robert Jeffers - damn, you sure are one hell of an articulate guy before your morning coffee. I'm coming late to the discussion, but if you're still here, I just wanted to thank you for making lots of things clear about Southern Baptists and the historical development of these ideas. Prior to your explanation, it had merely looked to me like lunacy springing forth fully formed from the head of Zeus.
Thanks. I hope other people test it too. http://findeducat.freewebpage.org/
Hehe, ik dacht ook meteen aan dat beetje invloed op http://www.findspot.net/commerce...ed-
servers.html
Zucht. En ik heb al zo'n last van frequent lozen van flatus en RSI. http://www.findspot.net/commerce...t-
business.html
Zucht. En ik heb al zo'n last van frequent lozen van flatus en RSI. http://www.findspot.net/commerce...t-
business.html
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