I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Bonzo, bitch!
Too bad Joey Ramone's a die-hard, Limbaugh-listenin', immigrant-hatin' Republican.
I wanna be sedated.
Drank in all the bars in town for an extended foreign policy
Joey is a Wonk?
Isn't Joey even deader than Reagan? Or am I getting my Ramones mixed up. They all had the same last names, you know.
Too bad Joey Ramone's a die-hard, Limbaugh-listenin', immigrant-hatin' Republican.
the good reverend | Email | Homepage | 06.12.04 - 11:58 pm | #
You're think of Johnny Ramone, the guitar player. The late Joey, lead singer, was fairly active in liberal causes. It's interesting to note that after Joey (and bassist Dee Dee) shuffled off this mortal coil, Rhino put out Loud, Fast Ramones: Their Toughest Hits, a single disc best-of compiled by Johnny. No "Bonzo Goes To Bitburg"; apparently, he thought it was "disrespectful".
Fuckin' punk rock.
Joey -who penned the lyrics, was no rightwinger. You're thinking of Johnny (guitar) who was, and still is, unabashedly way right of the dial.
I've been playing that song all week. The perfect antidote to the shite being breathlessly 'reported'on the telly.
Thanks for publishing that because I've never seen it.
I heard that Michael Moore and a Jewish friend of his snuck into the Bitberg cemetery when Reagan was laying the wreath, and held up a sign saying that the Nazis had killed his grandparents. Does anyone have a link to a story about that.
Joey died Easter Sunday 2001. Dee Dee is gone too.
Johnny, I've heard is conservative.
Noted.
I also heard that Johnny is an in your face racist. I still think that "Rocket to Russia" is one of the most transcendental recordings in human history. I didn't know about DeeDee though, that sucks.
HELP ME!!! Can someone link me to the website of some cool political upcoming documentary. It's not Faren. 9/11, but another anti-Republican movie that is coming out. I saw the trailor on the movie's website a couple of weeks ago and it looked SO good and now I can't even remember what it was about, just that I want to see it. It's driving me nuts!!! Anyone have any ideas???
Dee Dee congratulated and thanked himself for getting in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and a few months succumbed to Chinese Rocks.
few months later, actually
Johnny as Conservative:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/f...11-085521-
1823r
oscy, The Hunting of the President?
-
I wish effin prez'dents could frikken' GOOGLE demselves!
--ventura county, ca
Ronald Reagan Afterlife Update: still sucking Satan's cock in Hell.
Dee Dee died in 2002. Course, he'd split from the Ramones in '86 after Brain Drain and released a horrid - and I mean HORRID - rap album Standing In The Light as Dee Dee King. He also was in a punk supergroup with New York Doll Johnny Thunder and former Dead Boys frontman Stiv Bator, but it never went anywhere. After the Ramones proper split, he formed a cover band with fellow former Ramones Marky and replacement C.J.
He put out a couple solo albums as Dee Dee Ramones but none of them were that good. And despite writing the lion's share of the classics, his relationship with his former bandmates was pretty shakey. Unfortunately, he never could quite kick a lifelong on-again, off-again heroin habit and died in 2002.
What must never be forgotten is that Reagan's wreath-laying at Bitburg is an exact copy of Hitler's wreath-laying in Triumph of the Will.
Of course Hitler had Leni Riefenstahl as his director. Reagan had to make do with Michael Deaver.
Ronnie managed to politicize the Ramones. He should get a medal for that accomplishment.
saw the trailer on the movie's website a couple of weeks ago and it looked SO good and now I can't even remember what it was about, just that I want to see it. It's driving me nuts!!! Anyone have any ideas???
oscilloscope | Email | Homepage | 06.13.04 - 12:17 am | #
At your service . . .
Yes!!!! Thank you Quentin!! I was going crazy trying to remember... Thank you, thank you...
(Dee Dee was) also was in a punk supergroup with New York Doll Johnny Thunder and former Dead Boys frontman Stiv Bator...
Supergroup? Sounds more like a buying group, if ya get my meaning...
Thank you, Shirley also... hehehe
2nd try - One extra fucking http in the first one - Doh!
At your service . . .
2nd try - One extra fucking http in the first one - Doh!
At your service . . .
I've been listening to that song all week, and I even heard it on the radio on the way to work on Friday. 
"One owes respect to the living, to the dead one owes only truth." - Voltaire
Fitz In Canada,
Yeesh...portrait of a dick. Though I gotta admit, saying "God bless President Bush" at the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame is somewhat amusing...or would be, if that whole deal wasn't such a corporate nightmare.
The very next day after The Ramones' last show - Lollapalooza, where I saw 'em - Johnny sold his Morisite (only guitar he ever owned) to Eddie Vedder. Apparently, he and Joey hadn't spoken to each other off-stage in years, and anytime the two of them were interviewed in the same story (always seperate), he came off as pretty nasty. Still...fuckin' killer live show.
dave,
Yeah, probably. Of the three, The Dead Boys were probably my favorite. They were tighter than the New York Dolls and more versitile than The Ramones. Have to admit, I never did get into the Dolls all that much and still don't understand the hero worship they get from younger punk rockers. Dig the Ramones, though I don't listen to 'em as much as I used to. Guy at work plays them constantly, them and The Misfits. I mean, the same albums every single fucking day.
*sigh*
I'll always treasure memories of seeing the Ramones in Hammerjack's in Baltimore back in the '80s...
ONETWOTHREEFOUR!
George Bush Sr., fuck you!
George Bush Jr., fuck you!
Robert Mueller III, fuck you!
Whoever traces this comment, fuck you!
Thank God we live in a free country.
That felt good.
At the risk of drawing ire, many German soldiers were just dragged into the war with little to know choice. Not the SS men who had to undergo thorough loyalty screenings (I think what made the Bitburg stunt bad was that it was an SS grave), but your average grunt was pretty much a SOL piece of cannon fodder like anyone else. And it's that way most of the time, war sucks that way.
Stiv Bators, now there was a performer. Used to try to hang himself onstage with his microphone cord. He's probably in a nursing home by now. I think I still have "Young, Loud and Snotty."
Backslider, I have Night of the Living Dead Boys live at cbgbs which I loved but then I read that Stiv Bators refused to sing into the mic so he could tack on the vocals in the studio. I read this on the internet, by chance is it bullshit?
Maybe we should just accept that we're living in some neo-nazi facist regime. It does have some appeal. For one, facists have great fashion sense. Wear black leather coats all the time and they'll think you're one of them.
Sheeut, I shoulda known that Backslider was already all over the Dead Boys.
That's a horrid picture. After I spent all week avoiding ronnie ya got to go and put a picture of him up. Yack.
Naw, Bruce... Stiv is dead too, sorry. He got hit by a car and died maybe fifteen years ago.
Have no pity on oven shovers.
Really. If it looks like it might be
bad, chances are it is. Thank God
for Taguba-Can I get an Amen?
free american pussy for jihadi's...might just work to win hearts and minds.
Hey look, I was told that it was part
of their culture to be tortured. They
like it, look how long Saddam was in
power.
Atrios, you left out the 2nd verse:
Should I wish her happiness
Wish her the very best?
Fifty thousand dollar dress
And she answers to "your highness"
See through you like cellophane
You watch the world complain
But you do it anyway
Who am I, am I to say
Nice anti-Nancy shot, that.
Stiv is dead too, sorry.
Not too surprised by this, I didn't keep very good track of my heroes. I've always wondered why assholes live so long? Strom was about 168 years old when he died, Jessie is still amongst the living dead. R. R. was 93. What's up with that?
Does anyone else read *Equal Time w/ Bob Boudelang* at Democratic Underground? He's FINALLY got a new column today.
At last the white males who built this nation and died for its freedom get to have a hero in Ronald W. Reagan, so shut up and move to Communist Canada if you disagree. And I am sure if they were not dead they would rise from their graves if they were not cremated or rotted away and point out that it is no coincidence that Ronald "W" has the same middle initial as Our Great President has a middle initial. Which is "W," the greatest of all the 50 letters of the alphabet. Explain THAT, Mr. Atheist! If this is not proof of God's plan for the greatest country in the whole stinking world, I do not know what is.
I LOVE BOB.
Johnny Ramone's rigthwing website.
Sad.
Here's a good antidote. Check out the "Gossip" section.
This too if you're into that thing.
Does anyone else read *Equal Time w/ Bob Boudelang* at Democratic Underground? He's FINALLY got a new column today.
No, I don't, but dude is angry.
why should the conferderates get all the glory?
heck they have a flag too!
Amen, Cb. Someone -- well, Kerry -- ought to say he'd make Taguba JCS Chairman, if he gets in office . . .
I shoulda known that Backslider was already all over the Dead Boys.
BTW Backslider, I meant this in the nicest possible way....
I have to start somewhere talking about this, so it will be here! WTF! What am I missing? WTF! What can't I see? A few nights ago, a respected man(Brad DeLong) put up a post by a respected writer(Rick Pearlstein) who was at a talk by a respected reporter(Sy Hersh) that said that there had been abuse/torture of Iraqi children by the U.S. Sy Hersh said at the U. of Chicago that he had seen the picturess and videos of this! Why has no one else said anything about this!!!!!!! I urge everybody to check Mr. DeLong's blog and to try and get people to write about this!!!! OH MY GOD,HOW BIG IS THIS!!!!!!!!!
Amen, Cb. Someone -- well, Kerry -- ought to say he'd make Taguba JCS Chairman, if he gets in office . . .
Show 'em how the old school does it. Good man.
Taguba's dad went on the motherfucking Battan death march. Bush slaps every U.S. veteran who has been tortured in the face, from McCain to Taguba's dad to every vet who's seen his buddy die.
How dare he? How dare he?
Old Hat,
In closing of the current column:
And best of all, Ronald Reagan is dead, and will still be dead when the election comes in November, despite anything Lie-berals and Socialist DemocRats and Moderate Extremists do or say. Let us never forget that, or else dig him up and hold another great funeral so we can remember. And maybe the next time Ollie North will not have to hide. Amen!
I don't know if *Bob* actually spends a lot of time on freeper planet, or if it just comes naturally to him, but he's just as effective as Gen. J.C, Christian, Patriot, when it comes to serving the Right.
Reagan and dead SS soldiers? Yes, it was stupid. And yes it was another incredible Reagan moment. There were so many of those moments.
If we keep digging them up,documenting them, and rage at them now, it will not do us any good. It will drive us crazy.
The American media has said so much in the past week how Reagan vanquished the "evil empire".
And now each of us wakes up, every morning, living in an evil empire much worse than the good American folk can ever realize, or want to admit.
That's what we must do something about.
jpalaska
How dare he? How dare he?
Old Hat
Easy. He doesn't read history so he's blissfully unaware.
Plus he's an asshole.
I put up some of the best of Reagan songs from the Punk era on my blog, including Bonzo Goes To Bitburg.
Click this link to listen.
Reagan and dead SS soldiers? Yes, it was stupid. And yes it was another incredible Reagan moment. There were so many of those moments. If we keep digging them, documenting them, and rage at them now, it will not do us any good.
Gotta disagree with you, dude.
We must expose the lies for what they are. I'll be damned if Reagan gives Hamilton the boot off of the tenner, because you know what? The tenner is my favorite bet when I play poker,and I'll be damned if I drop a "Reagan" on the suckers who dare play me in a game of Texas Hold 'Em.
Let's expose Reagan's lies (especially that part about Marvin Bush meeting John Hinckley two days before the assassination attempt *ahem*) before we go writing this jagoff's Gospel.
Speaking of the 3rd Reich. The History Channel is running "The Great Escape". I was waiting to see the part where the Germans humiliate the American and British prisoners by putting them in sexually humilating positions, etc. But it didn't happen. The History Channel must have cut those parts out.
I've met Bob Boudelang in person (or rather, the person who writes as Bob Boudelang). He lives in an ultraright small town about 50 miles outside of a large northeastern city. I got the impression that he pretty much mimics the people he hears on the street, in stores, and in the rest of his town (which I've been to, and has little to recommend it besides minor league baseball). Extremely nice, friendly guy.
Yeah, that picture should be on a stamp - "The tomb of the unknown SS Officer. "Sure he vas a bit of a shit but hey, it vas var! Undt he vas a wictim too!"
back in the day this bit of hatefulness made me furious, but this was trivial idiocy compared to every day policy - and while we're on the subject, the great communicator used codewords - I had forgotten until just last week - I hated codewords
I'm in the music business, and can tell you firsthand that Johnny Ramone is widely disliked. He's a well-known fascist/racist and makes no bones about it. Not a nice guy. Johnny, I'm afraid, also may not have long to live, as he apparently has terminal cancer. Joey, on the other hand, was well-loved and known as kind of a mensch.
Way OT. Sorry if it's been mentioned.
Hmmm, Nader's apparently running on the anti-transparency platform this time.
from the WaPo: http://tinyurl.com/28rac
[italics should be here, but me too dumb]
[Nader] refused to provide documents accounting for the campaign's use of office space and resources while it was co-located with Citizen Works. "If that's released to you [the press], I'll have to release them to everyone," he said. "All of this is a matter between the campaign and the FEC. I'm not going to start saying we'll give The Post this, and then we'll have to give the L.A. Times that."
[end italics]
This just in: Ralphy's a hypocrite.
Johnny Ramone is finally unable to shit out all that bile, and it is backing up ... no wonder he's got cancer...
Deathbed repentance? Doubt it. He probably thinks he has a special place in heaven... too bad there's really no place called "hell," because that is surely where he'd go...
Hell for a right-wing fascist would be having to work 24/7 (for eternity) as a social worker.
[Nader] refused to provide documents accounting for the campaign's use of office space and resources while it was co-located with Citizen Works. "If that's released to you [the press], I'll have to release them to everyone," he said. "All of this is a matter between the campaign and the FEC. I'm not going to start saying we'll give The Post this, and then we'll have to give the L.A. Times that."
Atta boy, Ralph! Gravy train! Gravy train!
But, but, but, Tom Delay does it!
"All of this is a matter between the campaign and the FEC."
Yeah, say Ralph, who funds the FEC?
Dickwad?
Old hat, mbs...
Bob Boudelang is complete satire. It's not real. It's humor. Just in case you didn't know.
He's not helping the freepers. He's just making us laugh.
But, but, but, Tom Delay does it!
There's no difference between the Democrats and Republicans.
Oh, Bitburg is worse than that. It contains the graves of the SS troopers who participated in the Malmedy Massacre.
In Malmedy, Belgium, SS units captured an artillery observation unit and shot them in cold blood.
Joe McCarthy spend a great deal of time and effort to show that US troops tortured these murderers when they got their hands on them. He forgot to mention that US troops shot the SS out of hand after that.
Bitburg was a total embarassment for Reagan.
apc...you're kidding, right?
"All of this is a matter between the campaign and the FEC."
What's up asshole? Are you paying your fair share of taxes, or are you hiding your $4 million bank account in Aruba? How about your release your motherfucking tax forms, like every single year like I fucking do when I mail that shit off after waiting four hours in line at the post office so I can get registered mail, douchebag?
Millionaire jagoff thinks he's above the law.
Relase your shit, Ralph!
Old Hat,
I'm not disagreeing with you.
Where do we start with exposing their lies? I went apeshit for each lie that was put out there and condoned by the media during Reagan's 8 awful years. And Nixon's before that. And Bush now? I'm surprised I didn't die from a bleeding ulcer or cardiac arrest. Don't get me started.
My point is this:
America for the past 50+(maybe100+) years has been a bullshit spewing/bullshit eating nation.
Americans love bullshit. Why do you think Reagan made them feel so good?
Why was Dudya such a love puppet with his bullhorn after 911?
And Democrats spew bullshit too if they think it will get them elected. I.E. Why doesn't Kerry have the balls to say: let's get the fuck out of Iraq? Now!
So lets deal with today's bullshit (lies) today.
We don't have time, and the ignorant American voter doesn't have time or the attention span to read about "Iran/Contra" or "catchip for lunch" history.
best to you,
jpalaska
Bitburg has nearly 2500 war dead.
Most are Army or Luftwaffe with a smattering of Female Auxileries (Communication/Searchlight operators)
Less than 50 are Waffen SS members and mostly extremely young conscripts from late in the war. (I believe the ones in Bitburg are Mountain Troops)
This is NOT an SS cemetary and it would be difficult indeed to find a German war cemetary, anywhere, that doesn't have at least one SS soldier in it.
I suppose before any non-German leader lays a wreath it would be advisable to dig them up.
Comment window == Big Tent for topic dump:
apc--
if you ever see Bob again, please tell him every new column is a bright spot in my day. 
OT:
UnBeFuckingLievable (but not for Cincinnati)
Is it justifiable to abuse or humiliate Iraqi prisoners to gain war-related or terrorist-related information?
Yes 210 (56.30%)
No 163 (43.70%)
Yes? YES? YESSSS?
Please VOTE!
Also:
But we should not omit truths that don't coincide with idealized accounts of a bygone era.
University of Kentucky political science professor Horace Bartilow recalls several points of Reagan's presidency that have been glossed over in his death.
He cites the Iran-Contra Affair where the United States traded arms for hostages; the failed war on drugs and crime that today is proving lucrative for terrorists looking for ways to finance their terrorist acts; and the economic plan that increased deficits phenomenally and shrunk the middle class. Bartilow also points to this period of time as when the industrialization of America's prison system began. To serve their purpose, newly built prisons needed prisoners, human commodities made possible from the wars on drugs and crime.
From the the itty bitty burg of Frankfort Ky, of all places.
oh, Daddy-O, I am well aware of Bob's satiric intent -- it's just somtimes so truly dead-on if I wasn't reading it at DU I certainly would take it for sincere.
I truly find it art.
R.R.said that the abe lincon brigades [antifacist]fought on the wrong side of the spanish civil war. nazi symp. anyone here familiar with david emory arcives at www.wfmu.org ?huge anti facist resource!
What an execrable little worm this "atrios" person is.
Seeing all those people solemnly expressing love, respect and honor burnt a hole in his mean, black little heart.
What we appear to have here is a person with no redeeming features at all - one animated only by hatred, jealousy and spite. Pure scum. Quite extraordinary.
I just looked at the Conservative Punk political website. No original content, just generic dumb Republican stuff. I'm about 100% sure that the worthless pieces of shit have been bought.
I don't mean that they's not sincere worthless pieces of shit Republicans. But my bet is that the website is for money. It's about as punk as my 85-year-old mother.
What we have here, is a person who remembers Ronald Reagan as he really was. If you don't like it, there's plenty of Reagan worship going on elsewhere.
Reagan didn't know anything about Bitburg. He was making VD movies at the time.
"Hammerjack's in Baltimore back in the '80s... Mister X"
reaganpalloza = nostalgia = sentiment
i don't know the ramones so well. fer chris sakes it's punk rock. had a friend, bell hop, sheraton in sante fe, he said they were pretty weird. but he is a little square on these sorts of things.
sombody mentioned eddie vedder (or freddie edder in my circle) when rock and roll got it's balls back, after ronald reagan.
one more thing, the sixties are over. ww 2, over. if we are ever going to get along as a gloabal community,and we have no choice, time to start forgetting about the past. ok, maybe one should never forget, but even tho the thing with clinton is paltry and stupid to mention in comparison, there is a time to move on. let no one forget, that in kind, if not degree, our own soldiers are being "brutalized" in the same manner those SS agents were.
Bush is a War Criminal
not as bad as saddam, not as bad as hitler but you know "whats the difference. by the way Reagan was a war criminal too, and his crimes were not committed at bitburg.
my mom went to bitburg to protest reagan's visit. read how reagan gave the nazis a hechsher", on my site, jewschool.com.
You guys just killed my faith in
Ralph. Oh well. It's sort of a conditioning I must get used to:
don't trust anyone who seeks power.
Thats why I love Jesus, he never
lets me down...
You guys just killed my faith in
Ralph.
Bip.
Bottoms up from us, sincerely.
Howard Dean?
But then he fired Tripi on a paranoid
whim. What is up with these folks?
I thinks its funny that the 'elite'
percieve the public as idiots. Obviously we're not. Why are
a-moralistic do-do heads always in power? Is it too much to ask to have
a leader who actually cares for his
constituants? Really.
... You guys just killed my faith in
Ralph ...
You say I let you down
You know it's not like that
If you're so hurt
Why then don't you show it
You say you lost your faith
But that's not where it's at
You had no faith to lose
And you know it
... I thinks its funny that the 'elite'
percieve the public as idiots. Obviously we're not. ...
It's not funny, and obviously we are.
This is an E-mail I sent to Amanda York of the Kentucky Times:
Dear Ms. Amanda York,
Though I do not live in Kentucky I can imagine the hate mail you are receiving for your June 12th editorial, "Reagan's Teflon legacy." As a former resident of North Carolina, I know full well the vitriol dished out for anyone who has anything positive or defensive to say about gays, or anything negative to say about our foreign policy (unless a Democrat is in the White House of course). I don't doubt Kentucky's population differ much from North Carolina's residents regarding politics and opinion.
Again, I'd like to say thank your for being a reasonable whisper in the hurricane of hatred that is being thrown at anyone not buying the hagiographic orgy that has been this past week's fact-free media fawning coverage of the not-so-great President, Ronald Wilson Reagan.
I was a teenager during the Reagan presidency, and even in my wildly-uninformed perspective at the time, I didn't see him as great; hardly, the fact I lived next to a SAC Air Force Base (Strategic Air Command) festooned with B-52 bombers constantly reminded me of how his recklessness was terrifyingly inept, yet he is worshipped, go figure.
He, and millions of Americans, Europeans, and Russians were simply lucky. Yes, just lucky. Not lucky we had Reagan, but lucky that the thought of global nuclear warfare was a sufficiently horrible concept that even the hawks of the time hesitated to be party to causing such a catastrophe. Humanity, thankfully, didn't roll craps in the historical gamble of the Cold War.
It still sends a shiver down my spine recalling the dozen or so times the air-raid sirens would be wailing from the nearby air force base, and one-after-another, B-52's would roar off the runway and scream over our high school. We naive and trusting school kids would be told by visibly nervous teachers to get under our desks (i.e. duck and cover) ... I bet if you asked anyone who lived near a nuclear target during the 80's, they probably don't remember a fondness of Reagan that is being portrayed today.
Thank you again,
Steve in CO.
Anyone rmember our man at Dora Farms?
Q I don't want you to give up sources and methods, but the guy who called in the first time -- still with us?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, he is. He is with us. Thank God. A brave soul.
Not true
i was going to post this, what a
hypocritical bitch glenda hood is.
then i found this WHOA
Scott Silliman, director of the Center for Law, Ethics and National Security at Duke University Law School, said the Department of Justice argument that a wartime president cannot be bound by international law is "an extraordinary and breathtaking theory."
Silliman, a former Air Force lawyer, said such an analysis would create "a culture where avoidance of international and domestic law was accepted."
"When you do that you should reasonably conclude that there are going to be results from that like what we saw" at Abu Ghraib, he said.
if you read alot you have already seen the above, but the link indicates moving the investigation up the chain. presumably to get sanchez ie. make the fall guy.
duncan hunter, is another brain dead zombie from nite of the dead republicans. how do you kill those mother fuckers anyway? VOTE KERRY? and anyone else who has a (D) next to their name, then hold them accountable. otherwise it is FASCISM, pure and simple, i looked it up in the dictionary.
the dog is getting angry again, i feel a strain (ok a slight tug) on the chain.
oh yeah, if they put that mother fuckers picture on a ten dollar bill, i will never use that denomination again.
"What we appear to have here is a person with no redeeming features at all - one animated only by hatred, jealousy and spite. Pure scum. Quite extraordinary."
What we appear to have here is
Yes, hat, you are scientific in your analysis of Atrios. You are like Darwin categorizing the species in the Galapogos.
with no redeeming features at all
None? Whatsoever? You could at least give a shout out to his diligence. "He posts a lot." It ain't that hard.
one animated only by hatred, jealousy and spite
Hatred: Of the right? In general, no. Contempt is the word you're looking for. Atrios holds the right in contempt. The impeachment, the Goring, the election, and the Bush administration are all contemptable. Plenty reason for contempt
Jealousy: Of a dead man? Or of the right? No one is jealos of the dead. Of the right, see above.
I mean really. Jealousy? Yes Atrios wants all the attention Reagan's getting because people used to like him before Reagan died. Or something. Honestly the jealous comment is the hardest to fathom.
Spite: Yes, Atrios just cannot stand it that Reagan died giving the Republicans such an advantage.
Wait, it didn't.
Assshole, did Reagan go to Bitburg or not?
Contemptable or not?
Otherwise shit the fuck up.
Pure scum. Quite extraordinary.
Excellant description of yourself, apologist.
I've always thought that lyric was
Fify thousand dollar dress
She should answer to "Your highness"
I remember listening to Joey on the Howard Stern show lament that the Ramones could have continued touring, if they just took separate cars to the gig. Since nobody was talking to each other anyway and Johnny just wanted to listen to baseball games. Johnny was always a martinet about keeping costs down and he wouldn't go for it.
Charley,
It may come as a surprise to you, but every country violates the treaties (e.g. internation law) it signs when it decides it is in its own interest to do so. They just keep it secret is all.
Steve
man, I've had that song on repeat for the last two months. Whatever his politics, thank god for Joey Ramone. I hope he's sipping tea with Reagan as we speak.
Oh, too go along with the e-mail I sent to the Kentucky Times, I should have sent these lyrics of "Russians," by Sting... it was so apropos for the times:
In europe and america, there’s a growing feeling of hysteria
Conditioned to respond to all the threats
In the rhetorical speeches of the soviets
Mr. krushchev said we will bury you
I don’t subscribe to this point of view
It would be such an ignorant thing to do
If the russians love their children too
How can I save my little boy from oppenheimer’s deadly toy
There is no monopoly in common sense
On either side of the political fence
We share the same biology
Regardless of ideology
Believe me when I say to you
I hope the russians love their children too
There is no historical precedent
To put the words in the mouth of the president
There’s no such thing as a winnable war
It’s a lie that we don’t believe anymore
Mr. reagan says we will protect you
I don’t subscribe to this point of view
Believe me when I say to you
I hope the russians love their children too
We share the same biology
Regardless of ideology
What might save us, me, and you
Is that the russians love their children too
"too," should be "to." Damn typos and the English language...
Reagan will get more face time at the GOP convention than Bush will. They'll be shoving the SOB (Reagan, not Bush) down our throats in every political ad until November.
people should go read antiphones' link at 3:02. if for no other reason than to be reminded of what a moron our president is. even a redneck woud be embarrased by the way he talks.
3:02, Jeebus Christ!!! time to go to bed.
Wow, is that a thread? I didn't really see one comment about Bitburg.
Samantha Power, in her book 'Genocide: A Problem from Hell,' which is excellent, recounts that Reagan's Bitburg visit was the proximal cause of the passage of the Genocide Convention in the US Senate.
At Ollie North's suggestion, btw. ('What the fuck can we do to shut up the protests over Bitburg, Ollie? Well, there is that Genocide Convention. Oh? What's that? Let's do that.')
Her book exposes several such seemingly random causes for advancement of our liberal human rights and especially the right not to be subject to genocide.
Bushliar killed more than 10,000 innocent civilians, after lying the country into backing (barely) the invasion. When the LA Times announces that Americans don't feel the invasion was a good idea, based on a poll, it ignores the fact that it did not report the gigantic display of not feeling the coup and its invasion are not good ideas (=treason).
The LA Times fails to note that it is the horse's ass, and knows it.
--
Well, this week, the Republicans literally buried the bad news on a Friday afternoon.
Good thing our ever watchful press caught it.
What will be the effect of millions of Americans realizing that the conventional media is dominated by such happy liars of the fifth column?
A great boycott is about to end that dominance, and we're going to have to go trust busting, again.
The LA Times may be getting a new editor in chief. Who cares as long as the owners in Illinois are hostile to the liberal values of the California coast?
Now that my dog reads so many words, I don't feel so bad when he pisses on the Times when out on walks. It's apparently an informed opinion. Man's best friend, that.
--
Oops, there were some topical posts:
"Less than 50 are Waffen SS members and mostly extremely young conscripts from late in the war. (I believe the ones in Bitburg are Mountain Troops)"
Gee, only 50 murderous thugs. And the 'extremely young' bit means...what? What it means is that they were even more cruel than the older guys, who were forced into the war and not yet fully endoctrinated.
Mountain troops is deceptive language, since the cruelties of the SS in the mountain villages was no less horrible than on the flats.
"This is NOT an SS cemetary and it would be difficult indeed to find a German war cemetary, anywhere, that doesn't have at least one SS soldier in it."
We aren't talking about 'at least one.' We're talking about 50 of the bastards, which qualifies as an 'SS' contingent, probably with their own area of the cemetary, and probably exactly where Robot Reagan placed the wreath.
Apparently Reagan layed the wreath as a result of a meeting with a famous Austrian right-winger who was also the target of Gov. Vote Fraud of Austria's affection.
But who can beat Bushliar in visiting Auschwitz and then asking the curator if a lot of people questioned what happened there. That's better than a wreath, that's a good start at historical revisionism. At least Reagan wasn't quoted offering the view that the SS were victims of their willingness to perform genocide. Bushliar is the victim of the victims, too. Ain't white supremacy tough?
--
OT but who is that xymphora person anywho?
steve in co. (great state) nothing surprises me.
what are you saying, bush is not a war criminal? 'cause i reject that out of hand. war is criminal period. but putting that extreme position aside, bush designed policies that fommented if not specifically permitted the torture of 'detainees' many who were guilty of no other offense than being arab, and being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
and let us not forget the lawyer in calif. Mays(?), accused of complicity in 3/11 bombings. because he was a lawyer and had help, the justice dept. backed down and admitted their error. but what if, and how many, may have already disappeared?
true leadership means leading by GOOD example.
poor leadership means "you do what i say" and if dear leader, is not truly a war criminal, he is certainly crimnally stupid.
alternate universe found here
Looks like SETI needn't waste any time searching that universe
Bush is CLEARLY a warcriminal. There is no question that they failed to guard the nine Iraqi nuclear repositories for a FULL MONTH after the invasion, while guarding the oil ministry immediately.
This is an example of a warcrime for which the buck stops at Bush's desk. That he has spent 40% of his term away from his desk does not relieve him of legal responsibility.
--
Charley,
Hell no, am absolving Bush's policies, if you can call them that? I was just saying, that it shouldn't come as a shock to you that the US and other coutries will violate treaties that they have signed onto, if it is to promote the "health of state," that which is war.
It's not funny, and obviously we are.
I didn't mean funny in a light-hearted way, I meant funny as in
Ironic, that most people in power
are not intelligent. They are well
versed in laws and how to go around
them because they grow up around the
stuff, and make it a habit to screw
us over, as a matter of course. I beg, to differ, I think the public is smarter than we give them credit for. Bush was not voted in, and Gore
wasn't all that dynamic, but anyone
could see he better fit to lead than
Bush.
Down with America!
(Excuse the outburt. I've always wanted to say that!)
beware --
do you know, or what is up, with the text in that moronic piece that APPEAR to be links but turns out just to be blue colored text? Is it SUPPOSED to appear to be links to make the piece appear to have some actual *facts* to back it up (but apparently assumes no one ever clicks them so it won't get *caught* not even making up fake links but only making up fake link appearances?
Or is it that whatever actual links may have been included were stripped but the linkage appearance was left in place to make the piece appear to have some actual *facts* to back it up BUT still assumes that no one ever clicks them so leaving fake link appearances is not a problem?
I am just SOOOOO confused by exactly WHICH bit of chicanery demanded the design it had . . .
Yah, right. THE media who has been
worshipping a corpse for a whole week
is actually trying to make said corpse look bad. It's just too deep...
Here is a bit of info that ties the
GOP in nicely with Hitler and
Eugenics, eugenics being the nucleus
of the whole WWII effort:
Prescott Bush [Grandpappy Bush] was
in involved in supporting Eugenics
and Hilter's crazed master race "philosophy", and he was directly involved in funding the
Nazi War Machine...Prescott Bush helped to finace Hitler through a company called Union Banking Corporation (UBC)...
(David Icke, pg. 33, from Alice In Wonderland and the World Trade Center
Disaster. Pub 2002 by Brigde of Love.)
Info on this can be found also online
at http://serendipity.magnet.ch/
jsm...crimefamily.htm
Just looked at the link, it's down.
Figures.
"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you," Matthew 5:43-44
Don't be a coward, those in the
know are aware that only LOVE and COMPASSION are going to end these
horrors on our planet. (Information,
helps too.)
OFF TOPIC, but I have to tell someone.
The crap never stops. Here's something
from today's (Sunday 13 June) LATIMES:
WASHINGTON — Weeks before U.S. military investigators began uncovering evidence of mistreatment of detainees, commanders at the Abu Ghraib prison launched a crackdown on alcohol abuse and told intelligence troops that guards were suspected of soliciting sex from Iraqi prostitutes, according to soldiers and officers who worked at the compound.
Read the whole thing here:
http://tinyurl.com/2z6mb
And that isn't even the important story. No, THAT would be the LATimes top story of the day, at least on their website:
Retired Officials Say Bush Must Go
The 26 ex-diplomats and military leaders say his foreign policy has harmed national security. Several served under Republicans.
By Ronald Brownstein
Times Staff Writer
June 13, 2004
WASHINGTON — A group of 26 former senior diplomats and military officials, several appointed to key positions by Republican Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, plans to issue a joint statement this week arguing that President George W. Bush has damaged America's national security and should be defeated in November.
The group, which calls itself Diplomats and Military Commanders for Change, will explicitly condemn Bush's foreign policy, according to several of those who signed the document.
"It is clear that the statement calls for the defeat of the administration," said William C. Harrop, the ambassador to Israel under President Bush's father and one of the group's principal organizers.
Those signing the document, which will be released in Washington on Wednesday, include 20 former U.S. ambassadors, appointed by presidents of both parties, to countries including Israel, the former Soviet Union and Saudi Arabia.
--The LATimes has an intrusive registration proceedure, unfortunately, but the whole thing is well worth reading at http://tinyurl.com/3yk9q
These people can't all be on the Kerry team and can't all have book deals, can they?
"health of state," that which is war. - the health or our state will be greatly diminished if we think it's ok for us to torture, but no one else can. This is what the DumbFuck Bush can't see (and his AG, and lawyers, and WH counsel. But hey, that's what you get from someone who's never been out in the world.)
they weren't "german soldiers". they were ss officers. i can sympathize with the poor saps who wound up in the german army.
Jews are so sensitive.
mr x, are you a fellow baltimoron? i remember hammerjacks too, even though i'm almost 40 and i dont think i ever set foot in the joint without being underage.
Way, way, WAY late - been at a friend's house all night drinkin' - but...
Backslider, I have Night of the Living Dead Boys live at cbgbs which I loved but then I read that Stiv Bators refused to sing into the mic so he could tack on the vocals in the studio. I read this on the internet, by chance is it bullshit?
EvilJunglePrince | Email | Homepage | 06.13.04 - 12:45 am | #
Internet rumor, no truth to it whatsoever, though I think there was some "cleaning up" in the studio. That, however, isn't an uncommon occurrance for live albums.
What's also a common occurrance is for hat to be a completely gutless fucknozzle.
Bush is CLEARLY a warcriminal.
Concur [blogwhore].
Thank you for the heads up, Tomm. Will go read the whole thing now. BTW, I do believe now that the Reagasm is over, huge ever more damaging shoes are going to be dropping one by one. I'm even somewhat optimistic about Plame indictments. They are such toast.
And it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch.
The Telegraph is reporting that a US Television Network is about to release 4 internal docs from the Red Cross that show high level Pentagon folks lied about their role in torture.
OK, that wasn't blogwhoring, but here are my thoughts on Bush the Sadist and the wingnuts who love him for it.
NTodd,
Has John Poindexter gotten to your blog? I cannot see any of your text.
I'm not sure if this is where the piece was first run, but it's a definite must-read. Written by a child of holocaust survivor who, along with others, went to confront Reagan before he laid the wreath on the graves of the Waffen SS:
To my generation, Ronald Reagan was first, a lousy, benign fat cowboy in a stupid Stetson who pushed soap — 20 Mule Team Borax — on TV. Then he became the spokesman for General Electric, and you only knew he was an actor because of some really bad movies they showed on the early and late shows on CBS. They even made a humanoid out of him for the World's Fair in NY in 1960. I saw it with my own eyes as our egg chairs trundled past it in the House of the Future or whatever the heck it was called.
Then Reagan became governor of California, which most easterners thought was a joke, but it got really scary when he was elected President. The economy was supposed to trickle down, and my family went bankrupt thanks to his high taxes, low income and out of sight interest rates that so stressed the middle class, more people went bankrupt than ever. They did so while waiting for David Stockman, Reagan's budget director, to urinate on their heads.
Economically, it wasn't until Clinton was elected that we felt any kind of economic relief.
As for Israel, I for the life of me can't remember anything of real substance about his relationships with Israeli Prime Ministers. That was so long ago, I can barely recall peacetime in the 80's. Those were the good old days.
But then there was that day in May, 1985, when some genius in the West Wing, Mike Deaver, I think, arranged for Reagan to lay a wreath at the cemetery in a place called Bitburg, where the Waffen SS were buried. The administration tried to bribe Elie Wiesel with a gold medal, so that he wouldn't call attention to it, but when they gave it to him, he spoke truth to power on national TV and told Reagan that Bitburg was not his place.
The Holocaust survivors had a gathering in Philly just around that time, and the survivors told their children not to go to Germany to protest. Well, many did go anyway, looking for trouble really, and tempting the Germans to crunch their skulls in front of camera crews.
Eleven children of survivors, including me and also including the chairman of the art department at Brooklyn College, Morris Dorsky, a WWII vet and Prof. Henry Friedlander, a survivor teaching in the Judaic Studies Department, got on a plane to Hamburg on a Friday in May. We landed, got nasty stares from the Germans and took a bus to Hannover, where we spent a sleepless night before going to Bergen-Belsen, the camp where most of our parents, including mine, had been incarcerated by the Nazis.
It was our intention to ask Reagan, at his last stop before Bitburg, in this place, this now NATO Base in Germany, not to proceed to Bitburg. Some of us, as i
clipped. continued from above:
It was our intention to ask Reagan, at his last stop before Bitburg, in this place, this now NATO Base in Germany, not to proceed to Bitburg. Some of us, as infants, had lived in that camp as DPs after the war. We were going to plead with him not to continue on. The CBS cameras were watching us.
We ran into George Schultz's boys as they headed toward the camp. We took busses to Celle, the railhead from whence our parents marched into the camp, and we followed the same route past neat little houses, whose inhabitants glared at us with hostile eyes veiled by starched lace curtains.
I was walking with Jack Eisner, a Holocaust survivor, and together, we spat on the ground. It made us feel better as we headed toward a park-like place of shared roots and dead bodies. But they wouldn't let us in. The Germans and the Secret Service had locked the Jews out of Bergen Belsen!
Well, eventually they let us in, but not before our visit to a tiny museum there, where we heard German visitors extolling Hitler. A walk through the concentration camp made it clear that brothers, sisters, uncles, aunts, parents, babies, elderly—it made no difference. The mounds were not marked with names. They were marked with numbers. And the man who'd just left was on his way to lay a wreath on the graves of the perpetrators of the genocide of the Jews.
As we survivors, children of survivors and liberators stood together in this remnant of concentration among the mass graves that held our family members, Ronald Reagan ignored us, and ignored truth spoken to power by Elie Wiesel. He went to Bitburg and laid down a wreath that served as a seal of approval on hatred.
Since that day, neo-Nazism has risen to its highest levels since before World War II. Antisemitic incidents in Germany include stabbings of Jews in the streets, and it isn't getting better.
Ronald Reagan taught us that what our parents prayed for would never happen. Jews would always be targets...not the only targets, but targets, nonetheless.
Will a world leader ever close the Pandora's Box Ronald Reagan opened in Bitburg? Two days ago, in France, someone carved a swastika on a 12-year-old Jewish girl's face. I guess not.
—Jeanette Friedman
The Thorn Papers...
Y'all come by now
and oh yeah:
Gabba, Gabba, We salute you!
Gabba Gabba, One of us!
The Thorn Papers...
Y'all come by now
Sorry mobius...didn't see you were here before me.
OT: have you seen the commercials selling oil futures?
this means that investors are predicting that oil is going to go WAY up! I don't know how high, but $40 a barrel is peanuts compared to what they think is going to happen...bring it on
if anything can stop shrub from winning in november - it's high oil prices!
backslider has been over at a friend's house drinkin'
i've always maintained that alcohol is ok in moderation.
but i have found that it's even better if you drink a whole bunch of it.
i've always maintained that alcohol is ok in moderation.
but i have found that it's even better if you drink a whole bunch of it.
Olaf glad and big
And I've found, that if you drink too much, it's alright to puke, as long as you puke in moderation.
BTW, Brain Drain was released in 1988, and after that is when Dee Dee left. That was the one and only time I managed to see The Ramones. That was at The Channel in Boston(not there anymore). That show was definitely oversold. It was a really hot July-August night and you could barely breathe in that club, great show. I miss Joey.
Has John Poindexter gotten to your blog? I cannot see any of your text.
No, but SiteMeter is having some problems, which is causing the page to load slowly. Grrr...
Ahh, the man who inspired so many punk rock songs is gone. Two of my favorites:
If Reagan played disco
he'd shoot it to shit
you can't disco in jackboots.
Or on a white horse
he'd sing lame lyrics
and try to reach the working man!
-- The Minutemen, "If Reagan Played Disco"
and
"Ol' Mother Reagan
And her crew
Took away
from me & you
She better go far away
She better go far away
Ol' Mother Reagan
went to heaven and
at the Pearly Gates was STOPPED!
--THe Violent Femmes, "Old Mother Reagan"
OT but might be important. Washington Journal on C-Span is asking if the U.S. should "do something" about Iran's nuclear program. Washington Journal is the classy mouthpiece of the Republican establishment. Looks like a trial balloon.
Could the dowfall of Chalabi be related? The "next target Damascus" folks loose out to the friends of Iran?
You young folks will be dodging the draft for the war Georgie will be spreading farther and faster than Kissinger dreamed of doing in Indochina.
Maybe this picture is how Ronnie got all befuddled and thought he was liberating a concentration camp. Someone must have told him he was in Germany.
Damned English spelling. Take a lesson from Spanish, why don't you.
Nazi death squads have feelings too! Just ask Dumbya's daddy!
You'll have to excuse me.
From time to time I stick small blunt objects up my asshole and sometimes they get stuck. When that occurs, my emotional frustration comes out in crazy rants against atrios.
Sorry, I can't help myself.
there were things reagan did that were blameworthy, but there were many many more americans at bitburg than SS soldiers.
AFAIK he was honoring the americans.
there were no american servicepeople still buried at bitburg.
i knew that you were into some pretty weird shit hat, but i guess that it does explain your behavior.
you are hereby forgiven all your transgressions.
now pull all that shit out of your ass.
Here's the final definitive word on Ronald Reagan and his supporters. It is the TRUTH (are you listening SCLM and its political pundit class). Listen up because 'ole Jeremiah here has the WORD OF THE LORD and is about to set you all straight:
Reagan was a piece of shit as a President, and anyone who doesn't think so is either an uninformed idiot, or a piece of shit himself.
No moral relativism here.
-Carl Sagan – The Demon-Haunted World 1996 p. 140
“President Ronald Reagan, who spent World War II in Hollywood, vividly described his own role in liberating Nazi concentration camp victims. Living in the film world, he apparently confused a movie he had seen with a reality he had not. On many occasions in his Presi-dential campaigns, Mr. Reagan told an epic story of World War II courage and sacrifice, an inspiration for all of us. Only it never hap-pened; it was the plot of the movie A Wing and a Prayer- that made quite an impression on me, too, when I saw it at age 9. Many other in-stances of this sort can be found in Reagan's public statements. It is not hard to imagine serious public dangers emerging out of instances in which political, military, scientific or religious leaders are unable to distinguish fact from vivid fiction.”
I'm so confused! Isn't Germany the Old Europe? Haven't we always been at war with Eastasia?
mr x, are you a fellow baltimoron? i remember hammerjacks too, even though i'm almost 40 and i dont think i ever set foot in the joint without being underage. Olaf glad and big
Nah, I'm from just across the Mason-Dixon in Pee-A. Baltimore is a favorite city of mine... great museums and Fell's Point, The Block, Little Italy. We used to pile into my friend's Kingswood station wagon and drive to Hammerjack's in BALT or the 930 Club in WASH to catch gigs in the early '80s. Good time to be into music. I turned 43 on National Reagan Ejaculate Into The Sink Day (June 11th)... we used to slip into MD and buy beer when we were underage, though.
At that Ramones gig, I swear it was 30 songs in 57 minutes! Things got so pumpeed up, the bartender was hosing the crowd down with his soda dispenser.
ONETWOTHREEFOUR!
RIP, Joey.
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!
--Reagan at the Vietnam War Memorial
"Johnny Rev" sez:
Ol' Mother Reagan
went to heaven and
at the Pearly Gates was STOPPED!
--THe Violent Femmes, "Old Mother Reagan"
This s why I love Eschaton!
.
Backslider - thanks on the Dead Boys business.
What a relief! The notion that they'd do that grand scale on a live album like some Milli Vanilli or Britney puke, was just too much.
YOWWWW!!! DETENTION HOME!!!!
i saw the ramones in 1978 at an outdoor concert at the claremont colleges, while i was still in high school. it was awesome. i saw them many, many times after that but nothing was as good as that show. i think road to ruin had just come out. we were all into led zeppelin and black sabbath and seeing joey et al was like being hit in the head with an anvil, warner bros. style.
despite the head injury, i'll never forget it!
Unfortunately, for the poster who posted about the links between Prescott Bush, Hitler, and eugenics, the problem with making that particular link (hint: the banking stuff is far more sound; go after that instead), is that in those days, eugenics was the Conventional Wisdom. Seriously. Practically everybody who was anybody in science between about 1900 and 1945 was heavily into eugenics... I just wish people would stop being so shocked, shocked about this -- in phenomenological terms, it's really no different from 19th C. phrenologists or prehistoric trephination, or whatever, that is, something we don't do anymore because we think it's bunk. In fact, I just read an article containing more of this shocked, shocked stuff from a really unusual source -- would you believe Jewish Zionist nationalist eugenicists?
That said, the Bush Family Evil Empire, Ol' Ronnie, and all their fellow-travellers are racist, Nazi-sympathising scum, but not necessarily because of any connection to eugenics as a field of inquiry.
Stiv is dead too, sorry.
Not too surprised by this, I didn't keep very good track of my heroes. I've always wondered why assholes live so long? Strom was about 168 years old when he died, Jessie is still amongst the living dead. R. R. was 93. What's up with that?
Another Bruce
Hell don't want 'em, Heaven won't have 'em
Re: Paul
The ceremony was a joint German-American ceremony at the behest of West German Chancellor Helmut Kohl.
Also in attendance was General Matthew
B. Ridgeway, US Army, hardly a Nazi and General Johannes Steinhoff, a WW2 Luftwaffe fighter pilot and General in the West German BundesLuftwaffe, at the time.
Again, hardly a Nazi.
There was no "deceptive language" in the use of the term "Mountain Troops". True, the could have been SS Grenadiers or tankers, on the other hand they could have been cooks, clerks, bakers or medics for that matter.
Who the hell knows.?
"50 is an SS Contingent". Maybe, maybe not. Could have been a complete Infantry unit on the march or Field Hospital on the road shot up by Allied aircraft. Again, who the hell knows?
I am not aware that the SS had a separate section nor if Army, Navy or Air Force had seperate sections. There are, of course, WW1 soldiers buried there also.
If the point is to argue that they were SS Einsatzgruppen and fully indoctrinated into the idiotic and
vile racial theories of the early SS Formations OR that they were merely conscripts and cannon fodder in the field formations of a desperate regime about to collapse, then some research would have been required.
One was 15 years old, so I tend to lean toward the latter.
The ceremony was designed to bring about further understanding and healing between two countries who had been engaged in a terrible endeavour for 4 years.
It was well attended by civilians and US Air Force personnel from the nearby airbase. There was no intent to glorify the Waffen SS nor condone their actions and President Reagans speech, at the site, indicated such.
It was a simple ceremony on a rainy day to commemorate the war dead of a now allied nation.
No more...no less.
All one has to do is visit a halocaust memorial page and see the photos of the SS shooting (read murdering) innocent men, women and children in cold blood to make you want to puke at the picture of Reagan visiting SS graves. ROT IN HELL RONNIE.
I'll never forget the time Joey Ramone was on MTV's 120 mins (remember when MTV actually had some music programming worth watching?) with Matt Pinfold. He was ripping Tipper Gore and the PMRC a new one saying what a bunch of hypocrites they were.
I miss the old guys, although there are still some punkers going strong--Joey Shithead of DOA comes to mind, as well as Jon Langford of the Mekons; I'd also include Billy Bragg, not so much for his music, but his attitude is certainly punk in sensibility.
Watched School of Rock this w/e and it was much better than I thought it would be--Jack Black's scene where he's trying to sleep and the kids he's subbing for are irritating him and he starts riffing on "the man". This reminded me of the time I was subbing for this lame-ass school dept. and I did a similar speil and got in trouble w/ the supt., as he didn't appreciate my teaching the kids about history and some of things that aren't normally discussed in 6th grade classes.
Thanks for the Ramones reference and "Bonzo goes to Bitburg". That disc spent some time in my CD player this week as a foil to the Reagan circle jerk taking place on my TV.
Ramones always rocked. Saw them 8 times.
Thanks, Atrios.
"The ceremony was a joint German-American ceremony at the behest of West German Chancellor Helmut Kohl."
LOVE your propaganda. Who does your hair?
"The American Legion, which represented 2.5 million US war veterans, said it was 'terribly disappointed.' Some eighty senators in the Republican-controlled Senate called on Reagan to 'reassess his itinerary.' Senate Republican leader Bob Dole issued his own public appeals for cancellation. More than 250 House Representatives wrote German chancellor Helmut Kohl directly, asking him to spare the US president humiliation by changing the venue." (Power, ibid).
"Also in attendance was General Matthew
B. Ridgeway, US Army, hardly a Nazi and General Johannes Steinhoff, a WW2 Luftwaffe fighter pilot and General in the West German BundesLuftwaffe, at the time. Again, hardly a Nazi."
Which matters not in the slightest. The president traveled with Pentagon staff!! Stop the presses.
"There was no "deceptive language" in the use of the term "Mountain Troops". True, the could have been SS Grenadiers or tankers, on the other hand they could have been cooks, clerks, bakers or medics for that matter. Who the hell knows.?"
See above. It is not necessarily the FACTS that matter in such cases, it's the implication. You appear unaware of that concept.
"If the point is to argue that they were SS Einsatzgruppen and fully indoctrinated into the idiotic and vile racial theories of the early SS Formations OR that they were merely conscripts and cannon fodder in the field formations of a desperate regime about to collapse, then some research would have been required. One was 15 years old, so I tend to lean toward the latter."
Fifteen years old at the end of the war means Hitler Youth. If you don't think they were indoctrinated, then you have far more facts than you can use.
"The ceremony was designed to bring about further understanding and healing between two countries who had been engaged in a terrible endeavour for 4 years."
Yeah, and that further healing and understanding was accomplished by JFK, and destroyed by GWB, with Reagan making a complete ass of himself in between.
"It was well attended by civilians and US Air Force personnel from the nearby airbase."
Wow. You mean troops attended an appearance by the president of the US? Why, did he serve turkey?
"No more...no less.
Ambassador Halfbright"
Quite a bit more, and nonetheless.
--
I am sure that Reagan had never heard of Bitburg, nor do I think he ever studied history much. Most of his historical knowledge came either from a film role or hearty servings of McCarthy in a Can.
This was the bastard who laughed at AIDS patients and said it was their fault and God's punishment, who said 'seen one redwood, seen them all' in regard to the rape of California's natural beauty, who blamed the poor for being so because they 'don't want to work,' and who wanted to know why the National Guard wasn't shooting peaceful protesters, among other barbarities of the man's self-delusion, egotism, and ignorance.
Sensitivity was not a Reagan virtue. Indeed, he made a political virtue out of his insensitivity, which accorded well with white supremacists, land and industrial ripoff artists, blue haired bigots, and pseudochristians, etc. SO shocking that his certainty was no closer to reality than his memory.
If it quacks like a duck. And it did. Reagan was WAY quacked, a traitor going in, and a traitor going out. And in between? A filling of death squads who did exactly what the SS were famous for. Too bad Robot Reagan couldn't have supported the SS with secret funds in the day, eh? Had to make due with Guatemalans and Hondurans...not good Aryan material.
"That said, the Bush Family Evil Empire, Ol' Ronnie, and all their fellow-travellers are racist, Nazi-sympathising scum, but not necessarily because of any connection to eugenics as a field of inquiry."
Not true. If you look on Pbs website
regarding the houlacost you will find
that we snatched up the research and
locked it away for own purposes.
Our involvement in WWII was not about
freeing the world from Hitler. It was
about getiing to that information
first and applying it to our field of
research in DNA and gentics.
We used Hitler, let him rise to power
do his thing, and then knocked him down as soon as the scam could no longer continue. (No, I am not a Hitler sympathizer.) Nor should anyone feel sorry for him beyond that
his mental illness was allowed to go
unabaited for political gain.
Cb, the idea that the US let Hitler rise, etc., is patently absurd. While it is possible that right-wing forces in the US funded Nazi political activities and supported the German steel and ship transport businesses even during the war, that doesn't become 'the US' and doesn't change the fact that we very nearly LOST WWII, with devastating potential consequences.
'We' did not 'use Hitler.' We fought him, and laid down lives in the (luckily) successful effort.
The German eugenics research wasn't worth spit. Everyone now realizes that not only can't races be purified from the genepool, we share something like 90% of our DNA with houseflies. Nazi research on nuclear bombs, rockets, jet engines, and other industrial studies, were MUCH more useful than their would-be genetic bigotry.
Propaganda? You should know. Your responses are the epitomy of such.
Ridgeway and Steinhoff weren't there by happenstance. As leaders in their respective forces during the war, their presence was co-ordinated by both Armed Services with their agreement in furthering similar aims.
Of course it matters. To suggest that it didn't is the height of stupidity.
Any dismissal of facts is likely the product of years of Liberal indoctrination. "Facts don't mean anything it's the implication" - seems like a concept only a LLL would be proud of. Clinton perfected it.
Indoctrination was certinly a part of Hitler Youth training curriculum but to suggest that it was at the level, intensity and of the same type as the Allgemeine SS is absurd.
Many of the families in the area were families of US Servicemen who had married German girls. They attended as families, in the hundreds.
Your sarcasm and smarm only comes off as covering the emptiness of your arguments. Nonetheless, carry on as if you know what you are talking about.
"Cb, the idea that the US let Hitler rise, etc., is patently absurd."
I wish it were! Nobody wants to think that our governing forces are
that bad. But they are! I am quite
disillusioned by the whole system.
It has been corrupt for some time,
it goes beyond, Bush, beyond Reagan.
Call me crazy, I don't care. If light
is not shed on these things the cockroaches will continue on in the
cover of darkness.
Of course RWR's "Mr Gorbachev, tear down that wall!" went over a lot better with the Germans than JFK's "I am a donut!"
AH-interesting choice of initials, by the way-something tells us sweet-faced John was forgiven a lot more grammatical errors than crinkly Ronnie was deliberately evil policy decisions.
In DeeDee Ramone's book Legend of a Rock Star he makes himself out to be an obnoxious American bigot.
"Propaganda? You should know. Your responses are the epitomy of such."
That's because they have actual references and quotes, instead of pseudo-defenses and name dropping. Oh, wait, your statements are more like propaganda. Sorry, Charlie.
"Ridgeway and Steinhoff weren't there by happenstance."
It doesn't matter that they were there, so it doesn't matter that they were arranged to be there.
" As leaders in their respective forces during the war, their presence was co-ordinated by both Armed Services with their agreement in furthering similar aims. Of course it matters. To suggest that it didn't is the height of stupidity."
Why don't you contact all those people who protested Robot Reagan's going to the event from the Congress, tell them all about what matters. Because they apparently didn't find this an ameliorating factor, as you claim to.
"Any dismissal of facts is likely the product of years of Liberal indoctrination."
Liberal indoctrination? Do you mean college?
"Facts don't mean anything it's the implication" - seems like a concept only a LLL would be proud of. Clinton perfected it."
Well, finally you get around to blaming Clinton.
Since Bushliar just bullshitted the country into an illegal invasion, it's surprising that you're unclear on the difference between facts and implications.
It's all a confusion about whether the victimizers are the victims. Most white supremacists think that way.
Get to work on telling us all about how the africans got Christianity for the price of their slavery, so they shouldn't want reparations. That's your next job.
Get'em while they're hot.
You are bidding on the exact same burial casket as the former President Ronald Wilson Reagan is reposing in.
Ahh yes. The perfect rebuttal to an argument that you have lost. Call the other a "white supremicist" and change the subject from Bitburg to Africa.
I shall just take my accolades as the winner and move on.org.!!
Oh, and one more thing........
as a black man, I could hardly wear the title of "white supremist".
Fool.
A pal of mine at the time thought they singing "Reagan's hanging upside down" in an allusion to Mussolini and was disappointed to learn otherwise.
I saw 3 Ramones shows and each one was a rocking celebration in the Mystery of life. May Joey rest in peace, a strange world the Ramones crowd.
But Bonzo's song was yet another shining gift from Joey Ramone to the world, the madness of King Ronald shown in punk lycrics and music.
God Bless Joey Ramone, who brought much joy.
"Ahh yes. The perfect rebuttal to an argument that you have lost. Call the other a "white supremicist" and change the subject from Bitburg to Africa."
The rebuttal was already made, and not itself rebutted. To quote Elie Wiezel, on the occasion,"The issue here is not politics, but good and evil. And we must never confuse them."
Indeed, the victimizers believe themselves to be the victims. Reagan said as much, in his famous 'the SS were victims of Hitler.' Oh really? You'd have to be an idiot to believe that, and Robot Reagan was.
"I shall just take my accolades as the winner and move on.org.!!"
You failed entirely to demonstrate that Robot Reagan did not lay the wreath because of his right-wing European friends and their departed parents, friends, or children, or because of some other bigoted reason for offending so many of his countrymen, including a great number from his own party.
You did not rebut the massive Congressional outrage at the visit, which gives lie to the idea that it was a noble visit in the furtherance of German-US relations (which could have taken place anywhere, but why Bitburg? You can't answer that).
"Oh, and one more thing........
as a black man, I could hardly wear the title of "white supremist". Fool. Ambassador Halfbright"
Tell that to Colin Powell.
Re: The US eugenics movement.
I think the reason so many people have trouble with the eugenics movement in this country is because they come to it with a modern understanding of genetics and race. From what I've read and the lectures I've seen, the eugenics movement in this country was started by affluent whites to help promote the passing down of good genes and inhibit the inheritance of bad genes. I believe they claimed to do this for ethical reasons, though it was more likely about improving the quality of their work force.
That doesn't seem so bad until one realizes that in the early to mid 1900's, good genes and traits were those of the affluent white people, while bad genes and traits belonged to blacks.
Even then, many scientists were intent on "helping" the black community by getting rid of bad traits and introducing good ones, as opposed to wholesale genocide. Maybe this is too fine a distinction, but it would appear that many of the scientists saw themselves in a paternal light, looking out for what they viewed as the weaker of the species.
Of course, there were likely many racists who saw eugenics as scientific validation for their hatred or simply a useful front. My point being that even the best scientists of the early 1900's were not immune from racism and, at best, likely viewed minorities with a condescending eye.
Regardless, I believe that by the 1940's eugenics had been largely discredited on both the moral front (who will decide which traits are good vs. bad), and the scientific front. The latter because human behavioral traits are too complex and environmentally influenced to map and identify the relevant genes, even today.
I'm not saying there aren't plenty of people who believe in eugenics today, or that there is no basis for behavior in genetics. Just that scientifically it has been discredited on a number of fronts.
So would a scientific advisor recommend going to war to get Hitler's eugenics data? Boy that seems pretty far-fetched. While it may not have been clear if the Nazi's had generated some new and important eugenics data, the Nazi's clearly had only one solution to the eugenics problem - genocide, the final solution. And that solution was already known to the Americans at the time.
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