I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
awww man! I wanna post I wanna post! Wait a sec, I just did.
grumble.
IT WAS THE PENTAGON FLAG!!!!!
http://ddubs.blogspot.com/2004/0...now-
living.html
http://news.independent.co.uk/wo...sp?
story=396043
http://www.twf.org/News/Y2003/04...411-
Statue.html
You don't want to try to despamify that address a little Atrios? Anything on an open page like that will be picked up by every viagrabot in no time.
OT
They bombed another pipeline, "halving Iraq's oil exports", hours after the occupation claimed that they had stung a bomb "factory".
I want woot to be in charge.
Also, you might want to brief your A(trios)-Team on how to handle troll attacks, paying particular attention of how to spot proxy server postings, as well as how to ban posters. Whilst the cat is away, the rats will play.
we're old enough by now
to take care of each other
we don't need no babysitter
we don't need no father or mother
we're old enough by now
don't worry 'bout a thing
don't you remember, last September
when you went to Steamboat Springs?
cranking up the tunes
'til the windows break
feeding chocolate to the dog
jumping on the couch
'til the feathers all come out
while our parents are on Fire Island
Fountains Of Wayne
OT, but again I encourage Atrions and Atriettes to visit this blog and bestow their merciless wisdom on the yokel who runs it:
www.xanga.com/
home.aspx?user=
HarmonicaMan
As always, apologies for my ineptitude at posting links or using tinyurl, but give me credit for endeavoring to not break haloscan.
Why not K&Y?
Ah ha! They've given him the tap and asked him to "clear his schedule." Congratulations, Vice President Atrios!
...While I'm away Tena, Athenae, Holden, and Pie have kindly agreed to fill the gap.
And Thumb. Huh...Huh? What about Thumb?
I want woot to be in charge.
We just can't get enough of those boobies.
Tena, Athenae, Holden, and Pie will do a great job. Their posts are always spot on. Give em hell A-Team!
Top Ten Why Not K&Y?
10 Every single post would be about Israel.
9 Posts would be inherently off-topic, a contradiction which would disrupt the fabric of the blogosphere itself, possibly creating leakage into the dumber reaches of netspace.
8 They would leave it to eachother and then both would forget.
7 The spectacle of defending Nader without defending Nader.
6 More complicated economic and lower-level political issues would go unreported. In favor of things that are either cute, bizarre or related to poorly animated Japanese cartoons.
5 Eschaton would become a mirror for cursor, counterpunch, howler, venerable and news.yahoo, without any real commentary.
4 Long after-dinner explanations of a new anti-Southern strategy.
3 They expect people to listen to Air America, responding emotionally to what's happening there regardless of what's happening here.
2 Troll arousal. Enough said.
1 They would change the font to Garamond and the color scheme to lavender with navy, lilac and hot pink.
if you put woot in charge, he won't have time to make new boobies.
Woot's boobies provide hours of quality entertainment, though.
Have fun, and watch out for eco-terrorism attacks Atrios!
The ELF is a loosely knit confederation of groups that embrace drastic acts to thwart the use of natural resources ranging from oil to trees. The network has been accused of releasing research animals, arson, vandalizing cars, sabotaging equipment and spiking trees. Some factions have taken milder measures such as placing chiding fliers on SUV windshields.
Oh, and as always, look out for unusually calm individuals.
Safe travels, Mister Smith.
And thanks to regulars Tena, Athenae, Holden, and Pie for agreeing to keep the diner open.
Looking forward to gaggle boobies.
Bush to Iraq?
Individual Ready Reservists are those who were let go from their service early to pursue education or other accepted reasons.
George Bush was let go from his reserve duty eight months early to go to Harvard for an MBA.
We report, you decide.
Poppy,
Nice post!
It is being reported that the pentagon attempted to censor the Saddam pretrial hearings. They told the newsmedia that the judge had ordered that no audio be taken.
After the hearing the media discovered that the judge had NOT ordered no audio, that the pentagon had.
"the pentagon attempted to censor the Saddam pretrial hearings."
Um, this is an old story. They DID censor it.
Jennifer, it's absurdly easy to embed a link, Really, there's nothing to it. It's not rocket science, it's just typing a few extra characters.
Seriously, go look at the web pages I've set up at:
http://tinyurl.com/2bzyk,
or:
http://web.newsguy.com/christucker/tips.html
for details on how to embed a URL, use tinyurl.com or use the "URL" field above the comments box.
Trust me, it's so simple to do, you'll kick yourself for thinking it was something difficult that only the most accomplished of HTML hackers could do.
And thanks to regulars Tena, Athenae, Holden, and Pie for agreeing to keep the diner open.
I concur. And isn't there a scheduled fashion show involving Athenae and Holden soon, depending on the 4th of July poll results?
BTW, Atrios, you're not flying in any small planes while you're away, are you?
Better start a bail fund right away, this place will be party central as soon as they see the tail lights fade.
if true, this is another to add to the long list of screw-ups:
Former Abu Ghraib Commander Says She Met Israeli Interrogator in Iraq
The Associated Press
Published: Jul 3, 2004
LONDON (AP) - The American general formerly in charge of Abu Ghraib prison says there are signs Israelis were involved in interrogating Iraqi detainees at another facility.
Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, who was suspended in May over allegations of prisoner abuse, said she met a man who told her he was Israeli during a visit to a Baghdad intelligence center with a senior coalition general.
"I saw an individual there that I hadn't had the opportunity to meet before, and I asked him what did he do there, was he an interpreter - he was clearly from the Middle East," Karpinski told British Broadcasting Corp. radio in an interview broadcast Saturday. "He said, 'Well I do some of the interrogation here. I speak Arabic but I'm not an Arab; I'm from Israel.'
"I was really kind of surprised by that ... He didn't elaborate any more than to say he was working with them and there were people from lots of different places that were involved in the operation," Karpinski added.
Israel's Foreign Ministry told the BBC that reports of Israeli troops or interrogators in Iraq were "completely untrue." Israeli officials could not immediately be reached by The Associated Press.
The "Under 40 by the 4th" team's prospects are looking a little grim...
Will we see certain parties using new blog powers to rewrite posted history?
Power corrupts. Blog powers currupt bloggily.
bkny- (By way of Hersh) Israel's all over Iraq. They're working actively with Kurds, who they see as a potentially valuable future ally (naturally the Turks just love this). It was already known that Israel was directly contributing to the interrogation and counterinsurgency operations, and two of the guys in CACI (the torturer firm) working at Ghraib were named Stephanowicz (so, perhaps an Anglican?) and-wait for it-Israel. So Israel (specifically, John Israel) was actually torturing Arabs. We had this theory that the NeoNazis (like Wolfowitless, Chalabi and Von Rummsfeldt) were deliberately trying to stir up anti-Semitism with carefully designed leaks "proving" Israeli "puppet master" yarns (the flag, the bulldozers, the CACI "consultants", Bush's acceptance of Sharon, etc) so that they can more easily dismiss the insurgency as irrational hate-fueled rioters (as opposed to an organized, respectable opposition legitimized by the people in question).
Remember what happend the last time Atrios let four talented commenters run his blog whilst he was away?
scouting ambassadorships?
Cheeky Monkey here. After the latest employment figures turned out a bit of a disappointment I thought you all might find this article from the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce to be of interest. Probably won't come as a surprise
US job quality has fallen dramatically in the last three years
scouting ambassadorships?
rowdios
No time. The VP announcement is supposed to be Wednesday, and with the Convention approaching Atrios has to hit the campaign trail 
Are the Democrats really going to nominate Kerry?
Very curious posts about kei & yuri.
At 11:44 Arthur Pewty asks why not kei & yuri?
A mere two minutes later, at 11:46, Anonymous posts a top ten for why not kei & yuri.
Deduction tells us that Anonymous most certainly is Arthur Pewty, who already had his 11:46 post worked out.
The question is, who is Arthur Pewty?
We have a real mystery on our hands.
Damn, that last Anonymous was me, I just cleaned out my cookies.
GEE HOW CONVIENIENT
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - The Iraqi official heading the investigation into alleged corruption in the United Nations oil-for-food program was killed in a bomb attack earlier this week, officials familiar with the probe said on Saturday.
Cheeky Monkey,
Good post. Thanks.
Ok Chris, here goes, and if it breaks haloscan, let it be on YOUR head:
Drop in on this yutz
Hey, it worked! Thanks Chris, I've never been able to get it to work before!
Are the Democrats really going to nominate Kerry?
Yes, but it would certainly be fun if (while droning on and on during his acceptance speech) Kerry suddenly grabbed his face with his hands, ripped the latex mask in two and revealed himself to be Howard Dean.
Yeaaaaaaaaaaarggggggghhhh.
(re UN investigation bombing) Once again Snitch is wrong, it is partially just like Vietnam, here in terms of the collossal incompertence and worthlessness of the puppets.
I take it back. It didn't work. PFFFTTT, Chris!
One more try:
Drop in on this yutz
THE BANANA REPUPLIC OF AMERIKA
AFP - Fri Jul 2, 1:33 AM ET
Several members of the House of Representatives have requested the United Nations to send observers to monitor the November 2 US presidential election to avoid a contentious vote like in 2000, when the outcome was decided by Florida.
No, it definitely didn't work. It won't take you to the page. Raspberries, Chris.
SWR-LOL
YEEEEEEASRARRRRRRRGH!!!
Ghost of Dean: Use the force, John! YYYeeeaaaarh!
Commander Kerry: I do not know at this time, Howard, the capacity exists for the possibility to emerge...
Ghost of Dean: Go back to saying "fuck", John! Jesus Christ! You'd think it was Bush who actually went to war and killed Communists himself!
Jennifer, just remove the www.haloscan.com/ inbetween the http:// and www.xanga.com..etc.. and you've got it.
I saw the site - 19 years old? Expert at every instrument? Fucktard he is.
I take it back. It didn't work. PFFFTTT, Chris!
Pretend you're coding a normal link.
a href = http etc.
remember the http
Like so.
We can officially quit mourning Reagan now, and flags can be hoisted full mast.
I am glad, as I was all cried out.
Now we can go back to mourning the fascist state of amerika.
Oh Please - No morals and values speeches from Kerry. If this is the tone of the debate from our side I'm gonna be sick. Let the repug hypocrites keep the issue all to their sick selves. We've been "moraled and valued to death" already. Kerry, STFU and talk about something that matters, for chrissake.
From NYT today (just a bit)
Kerry Invoking 'Values' Theme to Frame Issues...Last Saturday, Mr. Kerry used the V-word no fewer than eight times in a 36-minute speech to Hispanic leaders and next Wednesday he is scheduled to give a speech on his "plan to restore America's values to the White House."
*
Jennifer, you're probably pasting in www.whatever.
Paste in http://www.whatever.
That will eliminate the http://haloscancrap.
I concur. And isn't there a scheduled fashion show involving Athenae and Holden soon, depending on the 4th of July poll results?
Face it...the results are in already, and the Holdeniacs are gonna be sporting some sharp new threads.
It was a wise provision of Atrios to maintain cosmic balance by dividing the duties equally between Holdeniacs and Athenaeists. I just hope they don't have to share office space.
We can officially quit mourning Reagan now, and flags can be hoisted full mast.
I am glad, as I was all cried out.
Now we can go back to mourning the fascist state of amerika.
It was a serious relief to spend the last week in BC during the Canadian elections.
No flags at half mast. People weren't afraid to be critical about their leaders and bash them to their hearts glee. Even the Conservative guy seemed at least sane. People were talking about health care and a balanced budget and the economy.
Then I get back to the US and it's still the same old cult of personality, hero worship, etc.
w pisses off Baptists FINALLY w does something that offends the good Christians......
White House - AP
Baptists Angry at Bush Campaign Tactics
NASHVILLE, Tenn. - The Southern Baptist Convention, a conservative denomination closely aligned with President Bush said it was offended by the Bush-Cheney campaign's effort to use church rosters for campaign purposes
"I'm appalled that the Bush-Cheney campaign would intrude on a local congregation in this way," said Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission.
Oh Please - No morals and values speeches from Kerry.
If he's going to do it at all, he needs to bring on the fire-aqnd-brimstone. This tepid, vague stuff is irritating, I agree.
I'd like to see him in a debate with Bush talking about fear...how it's the enemy of clear thinking and rational response to threats. That way, he could attack BushCo fearmongering, accuse Bush of losing the "war on terror," and trumpet his military experience all at once.
veritas,
Its about frickin time!
The problem with these w. assholes is that they don't know when to stop.
If he's going to do it at all, he needs to bring on the fire-aqnd-brimstone. This tepid, vague stuff is irritating, I agree.
Kerry at his worst seems to be phoning it in.
It's not that he can't speak or think on his feet (He's not a retard like Bush) but there are times when he seems to be going through the motions.
I don't quite know why but I get the sense that he's been "overadvised" maybe? That he's looking at the election as his to lose and, thus, trying not to make any mistakes instead of speaking from the heart.
Does anyone know about this rumor? I saw this post from Kate on a thread from last night. Anyone?
...
I want those indictments, and I want them NOW!
Is there truth to the rumor(?) that Fitzgerald's grand jury closed up shop on Wednesday? Anybody know how grand juries work, i.e., how long after the empaneled jury is released can the indictments be announced? I guess I want to know: IF the grand jury finished its work on Wednesday (and how do we find out if THAT'S true?), does the fact that we've heard nothing so far mean that there are no indictments?
Kate
"If he's going to do it at all, he needs to bring on the fire-and-brimstone. This tepid, vague stuff is irritating, I agree."
P -I'm holding my breath on this one. Perhaps he'll pull himself together before he goes wide. I just can't believe his advisers would think this is a good strategy. I will be enormously disappointed if he continues. Hope it's not a sign of things to come. Yuk. For the first time I might say "here comes the new boss, same as the old boss..."
I know, I know, there's a world of difference in their actions, but damn, it'll be so dreary just to hear a morals mantra from the left that I won't be able to stand it. He might as well veep Lieberman if he's going in that direction.
*
Jenny-what's so sickening about "values" is the insincerity. Nobody with a senate career, or any kind of American political career worthy of a presidential bid, should open their mounths about "values".
I know, I know, there's a world of difference in their actions, but damn, it'll be so dreary just to hear a morals mantra from the left that I won't be able to stand it.
Well, speaches about morals tend to be completely meaningless filler that have no effect on the candidates actions.
Kerry is going to have the same positions on gay marriage, abortion, etc. whether he gives these speaches or not.
Philalethes,
I am glad you are on TEAM SMARTY et al! I'd hate to see what you'd come up with regarding the TREASON BITCH BY THE 26th! bet!
Gotcha!
Picture of the mysterious Atrios
I spent the day yesterday in a fundie hellhole (Searcy Arkansas, home of Harding University, which won't even allow students to receive Cosmo magazine in their mail) and virtually every flag in town was at half mast. I made note of the businesses complying with Dear Leader's attempt to drape himself in the warm & fuzzy feelings for the Great Prevaricator and flipped off each as I passed, causing other drivers to do double takes.
And thanks to all for the corrections on tinyurl. So one last time:
Go get him!
"I don't quite know why but I get the sense that he's been "overadvised" maybe?"
It's odd, isn't it, his party is more energized and has given him so much financial support that if he doesn't have some in-built confidence to give him the guts to shout it out loud at this point... well, it makes no sense to me.
*
We can officially quit mourning Reagan now, and flags can be hoisted full mast.
Is that what the half-mast flags are about? I see flags still at half-mast all over the place at the entrance to residential communities down here in Southern Florida. I thought we were done with Reagan's death.....
smarty jones- yep, unnecesary war that murdered thousands, based on lies, torture ok, stealing billions ok, as w is a good dry drunk self proclaimed Christian.
Wanting church membership lists going too far though. I guess the religious right doesn't want to be OPENLY known as Republican Party Campaign Headquarters.
With Atrios gone I'm already planning to jump on the bed and write on the walls with crayons. Woohoo! Have fun Mr. and Mrs. A!
speaking of values, I saw that odd creature of humanity - the one with the mustache over at 20/20 - interview Jack Ryan last night.
I rather agree with Ryan that divorce files generally should be sealed - if a candidate doesn't have anything embarrasing in their past I'd worry -but the guy does seem to have a terrible sense of judgement for telling the gopers that all was fine and dandy in his file.
Overall, he seemed to be a rather naive, yet weasely, dude. Definitely would have had his ass handed to him by Barack Obama. Oh well, Barack will get to slay some other gop rat bastard!
Oh come on AM/"Ricky", you could at least have linked to one of your other (endless, sadsack, obsessive) blogger accounts instead of the endless Big Dog obsession. After all, there's this stunning example of your artistic ability which actually is supposed to be the great man himself. Sorry to link to one of troll boys own pages, but you really have to see it: Remember that image next time you see our trolling chum... we are dealing with a pre-school mentality here folks!
It's odd, isn't it, his party is more energized and has given him so much financial support that if he doesn't have some in-built confidence to give him the guts to shout it out loud at this point... well, it makes no sense to me.
Is it possible that there's an age/generation issue?
Kerry's an Ivy League prep school grad. He lives in a world that moves considerably slower than the one most people live in. He's 60 years old. He has a different rhythm than you or I.
Jane Austen,
Is that your blog? I like the idea. Clever.
"what's so sickening about "values" is the insincerity"
K&Y - exactly. I was stunned to read that this morning because Kerry's got a load of really serious issues to carrry. We don't have one minute to waste on this crap. The tide of this country is turning against it and his barometer is way off the charts. shit.
*
veritas, exactly!
what, you don't fucking care if satiate myself with blood-lust? God damn I love you mother fuckers!
Now gimme your lists!
Testing the URL thing, (since this an educational thread )don't mind me
See ya George
Jenny--I hear ya. I hope he won't do that. But he probably will.
I don't have a problem with moral arguments if they're about things like indefinite imprisonment with no legal aid, or war profiteering a la Halliburton. If Kerry wants to say "That's immoral! We're supposed to be better than that! What's happening to our values?" and punctuate it with a bug-eyed Dean-style yawp, that's fine by me. But the combination of dull politeness and safe moral platitudes...ugh. You should be allowed a bit of passion in defense of what's right. But since anyone steps in that direction will cause the media to rise as one and declare him insane, I guess it's no surprise that he's being a bit tepid. Cowardice, after all, is right up there with compromise and greed as a primary qualification for political office.
Still, you can afford to step out on a limb a bit more once you've won. And maybe Kerry'll do that. I still think the BCCI investigation took incredible guts, and he did a pretty great job, too. Anyone who hasn't read his report should. You really can't judge him accurately otherwise.
We happen to think the Democrats, especially the RDLC, are their own worst enemy. The media can only frame or spin and the Rethugs are desperate morons, but you get some idiot telling Al Gore to move right or try to use the debbate as an opportunity to "make nice with George". FAIR had this great article on how every election, the media "advises" the Democrat to move right (nobody ever tells any Rethug to move left, of course). Also, there was earlier documentation that every single election where Democrats moved right in response to the imaginary "conservative heartland majority", they lost (with notable unique nonmitigating exeptions, like Bill Clinton, who certainly owed nothing to the party itself and could get elected chief elephant catcher in Alaska).
OT
Atrios sendoff falsies! Bon yoyage!
and punctuate it with a bug-eyed Dean-style yawp, that's fine by me. But the combination of dull politeness and safe moral platitudes...ugh.
Part of the problem is the fact that this campaign's been going on since last Fall. For me it peaked the first time in January when Dean got knocked out of the race.
And there are still four more months to go.
Kerry *is* pacing himself well as far as fundraising goes. And you can't expect the excitement level to remain high all through through a 12-15 month race.
"I rather agree with Ryan that divorce files generally should be sealed"
All personal files should be sealed, I'm against it in all cases, but sometimes I can't help feeling there's something deliciously righteous when moralizers are exposed. All these modern-day Savaranolas have so much dirt under their beds.
You'd think they'd learned a thing or two by now. Can't they stop sticking their noses into everybody's personal business and clean up their own houses if it's that important to them. christ, you'd think they would have learned something from the Bill Bennett fiasco, but they're stupid and shameless. Kerry, PLEASE DO NOT PLAY THEIR GAME.
*
w pisses off Baptists FINALLY w does something that offends the good Christians......
veritas
Methinks the good Baptist doth protest too much.
Just a little play-acting to ward off an IRS investigation.
Without Roy Moore on the Constitution Party ticket, the radical right and the Bush Administration are locked in an incestuous kiss (not a French kiss, obviously).
Speaking of party values,
here is a WaPo article Democratic Party Platform Attacks Bush Doctrine: Details How a Kerry Administration Would Differ From Bush
Philalethes -
I hope, I hope. For starters Kerry needs a new language. He certainly does have a lot to say, on our behalf, about the clear immorality of this administration. In the strongest terms he must condemn corruption and atrocity.
Hey Kerry, just go into your Websters and find another couple of words. Let's retire Morals and Values. Put a fork in it and elevate the discussion!
*
Speaking of party values, here is a WaPo article
Democratic Party Platform Attacks Bush Doctrine
Details How a Kerry Administration Would Differ From Bush
The question is, who is Arthur Pewty?
He was a character in a Monty Python skit. His wife was fooling around with the marriage councilor.
So much for pathos.
and punctuate it with a bug-eyed Dean-style yawp, that's fine by me. But the combination of dull politeness and safe moral platitudes...ugh.
Honestly, if Kerry can pick up the votes of some 60 year old salt of the earth types in the Midwest by droning on about morals that's fine with me.
As long as he doesn't give into the pressure about gay marriage and abortion.
"there was earlier documentation that every single election where Democrats moved right in response to the imaginary "conservative heartland majority", they lost"
YES. history has shown absolutey no advantage to co-opting the other side's shabby rhetoric. what's to emulate? I am mystified. It's not popular anymore, even with the middle of the roaders.
If Kerry loses, like Al Gore (who should have won BIG) it'll be pathetic beyond belief.
*
The question is, who is Arthur Pewty?
He was a character in a Monty Python skit. His wife was fooling around with the marriage councilor.
So much for pathos.
Backslider
Man, I learn so much here.
Special shout out to Chris Tucker!
that every single election where Democrats moved right in response to the imaginary "conservative heartland majority", they lost"
1976? 1992? 1996?
Apparantly the Lebanese-American Marine has been beheaded.
"Honestly, if Kerry can pick up the votes of some 60 year old salt of the earth types in the Midwest by droning on about morals that's fine with me."
SWR - It's just that it's a new day. IMHO. And instead of Kerry scraping for an old-fashioned Midwestern's vote, he could be showing us something new...
*
SWR - It's just that it's a new day. IMHO. And instead of Kerry scraping for an old-fashioned Midwestern's vote, he could be showing us something new...
He needs Missouri and Ohio not New York and California.
peemer- yep the great leader proclaimed a month of mourning.
I, for one, welcome our new blog overlords.
The Lebanese-American marine who had been a kind of living symbol of tolerance and civilization is apparently dead.
Christ. They know what July 4th is, don't they? Expect fun, not necessarily hereabouts.
Whats wrong with this Yahoo news box?:
Latest headlines:
· Iraq Militants Claim Marine Beheading
AP - 3 minutes ago
· Six Iraqi national guards killed, US marine dies, oil pipeline ruptured
AFP - 14 minutes ago
· US forces struggle to understand Iraq's post-sovereignty lull in violence
AFP - 33 minutes ago
"He needs Missouri and Ohio not New York and California."
The map is starting to change. We may have a shot at the House and Senate now. People in every state of the union, red and blue, are waking up. I want Kerry to give them something to be excited about. We've all heard the stories, anecdotal or first-hand of die-hard republicans saying they won't vote for Bush again. I've personally heard these stories from friends whose conservative parents are fed up.
Kerry must say something new to them. In my humble opinion.
*
kei & yuri,
I want a Steve Dallas and Opus figurine, too. That's cool.
Concerning Kerry's "values" speech, it's the same old horeshit politicians yammer on about. Clinton did it, Gore did it, Carter did it...they all do it. The yokels want to here it, even though everyone knows, at least in their deepest heart of hearts, it's empty rhetoric. It's the ketchup of the political smorgesborg. It means nothing.
And concerning the perception that Kerry's duller than toast, I ran across an interesting article - I wanna say on tompaine.com, but I can't remember and can't find the mother - about Kerry being the fair-haired boy of the 2000 VP race. Apparently, the pundits were saying our boy John would be just the thing to add a little life to Al Gore's staid image.
Funny the difference a few years makes, ain't it?
kei & yuri,
I want a Steve Dallas and Opus figurine, too. That's cool.
Concerning Kerry's "values" speech, it's the same old horeshit politicians yammer on about. Clinton did it, Gore did it, Carter did it...they all do it. The yokels want to here it, even though everyone knows, at least in their deepest heart of hearts, it's empty rhetoric. It's the ketchup of the political smorgesborg. It means nothing.
And concerning the perception that Kerry's duller than toast, I ran across an interesting article - I wanna say on tompaine.com, but I can't remember and can't find the mother - about Kerry being the fair-haired boy of the 2000 VP race. Apparently, the pundits were saying our boy John would be just the thing to add a little life to Al Gore's staid image.
Funny the difference a few years makes, ain't it?
Why does the news hate America?
Sonofabitch...damn double-post-causing hiccups.
Kerry must say something new to them. In my humble opinion.
So Kerry comes out and says "look. I'm all for morality but religion and moral platitudes have no place in politics."
I agree with this. So does John Stuart Mill.
But what happens if Kerry says it? There's a media feeding frenzy. Every article about Kerry starts to be about his lack of religion. It turns into Dean and the scream.
As I said, the moral platitudes don't bother me. What does bother me about Kerry is the way he's promising people that he'll get Nato troops put into Iraq (when he knows that Chirac and Shroeder have already said no).
Then again, people I talk to from Europe and Canada pretty much think that if Bush loses, attitudes towards the US will soften and Kerry might be able to get Nato troops.
Backslider-well, nothing a liar says matters, especially in light of previous lies. We didn't get our impression of Kerry as dull from pundits, we got it from Kerry. About the most exciting things in the campaign are the "accidentally" left-on mics and the hecklers (Kerry drowns them in boring platitudes confirming their every accusation soon ehough, but the point is that he has hecklers and that he engages them directly, as opposed to Bush's antipublic bubble).
"Then again, people I talk to from Europe and Canada pretty much think that if Bush loses, attitudes towards the US will soften and Kerry might be able to get Nato troops."
I too believe the Europeans and others are withholding support for Bush in every way they can right now. De facto, they are supporting Kerry. If he wins they will pour in their help, either for financial or humanitarian reasons. I think the world wants Iraq to stabilize but they don't want to give Bush any aid and comfort.
*
w in a nutshell from the Guardian
To Europeans, it said, some Bush supporters suggest a fond mother who watches her son at a graduation parade and notices that, while everyone else leads with the left foot, he leads with the right.
``Look,'' the mother exclaims to the woman next to her, ``they are all out of step except my Johnny!''
Awesome! Errol Morris to make Move On anti-Bush ads for the fall
I have a stuffed Bill The Cat...
Finally saw F 9/11 yesterday. Of course, I learned nothing that I didn't already know, but it was still a great group experience regardless. Everybody apllauding at the end was great.
The "Netherlands" shot was good for a loud laugh as well.
SWR-good point, after all, we mustn't do anything that might offend the media. Kerry was forced to drop out of the race, wasn't he, when he underbreathleaked snarling about ABC doing the work of the RNC. Surely there is no popularity to be had in telling the media he's got a message and if they don't think it's cuddly or worthy of beer sharing they can go bloviate about it on roundtable shows nobody watches.
kei & yuri,
Personally, I don't much care how "exciting" Kerry is, rather how he is on the issues. A lot he says and has said in the past I disagree with, but overall, I can live with him (and had I lived in Massachusettes rather my current Southern comfort, I would've been okay with him as a Senator). I don't quite understand the "importance" of having a president that I can "relate" to or is a "regular guy" or that I'd want to drink a beer with or any of the other silly high-school-type, Miss Congieniality nonsense that makes up modern politics.
But then again, that's the whole game, ain't it? It's all about getting the rubes to swallow enough snake oil so's you can keep your job. And it has been thus ever eternal, to be honest.
What kills me is when people say they want a candidate to be "truthful". No, they don't. The American people wants to be bullshitted and bullshitted but good. They want to hear pap about "morals and family values", nonsense about God, foolishness about "American pride" and all sorts of false positive fertilizer. Which leads me to think upon the success of Bill Clinton as a politician: he didn't hide the fact that, in a previous time, he might've been a carnival barker or a medicine show huckster. The man knew how to bullshit.
SWR-good point, after all, we mustn't do anything that might offend the media.
You still have to chose your fights carefully.
If Kerry were secular at his core and chose to fight on this issue, he could win.
But he's not. He's a practicing Catholic who probably believes all of that moral crap. If the media goes after him on this issue, he won't fight back. Or he'll fight back in a halfassed way.
If they went after him on Vietnam, on the other hand, he'd fight and maybe win.
All we're saying is, we've seen this "play the media's game by the media's rules" bullshit, and the house always wins.
123 days until the election.....
They want to hear pap about "morals and family values", nonsense about God, foolishness about "American pride" and all sorts of false positive fertilizer.
I have zero problems with going to an Episcopalian mass to suck up to my girlfriend's parents or with standing for the National Anthem at a baseball game or with seeing "in God we trust" on coins.
That's all Kerry's really doing. It's just the mundane invocation of God at public functions etc.
It's fundamentally different from the fact that Bush *literally believes* there's no need to plan for global warming because the Rapture's coming or that he has to support the Israelis because it says so in the Bible.
The fact that the Catholic Church is going after him on the abortion issue and media hacks like David Brooks are going after him on religion is a sign that it just might be an issue you want to finess this time.
That's like 1/3 of a year.
All we're saying is, we've seen this "play the media's game by the media's rules" bullshit, and the house always wins.
And wouldn't fighting over a trivial issue like this be taking the media's bait?
Once again, if it were a fight Kerry believes in, go for it. But does he?
w does it again the arrogant bastard
BRUSSELS NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer warned Friday that Afghanistan and Iraq were doomed to be failed states if the United States and the international community did not find a way to work together to save them.
w's way of Working WITH NATO
In their private meeting on Sunday, Bush did not even inform him of the decision to turn over sovereignty to an interim Iraqi government two days early. Bush mentioned it to him shortly before they entered the formal NATO meeting the following morning where the decision was announced
Seriously, folks, the "way it's always been" doesn't have to be the way it should continue to be. We're at a time in our history unlike any other. ITS TIME FOR A CHANGE and we need to stop with all the compromise and "go along to get along" thinking.
This is not radical thinking. I'm not voting for Kucinich and didn't vote for Nader because I'm a realist and I want to win. Kerry is a centrist and that's fine with me. I don't have to think he's funny or sexy or want to have a beer with him. But I'm asking him to just cut the crap and speak about the important issues facing us.
I think the country can handle it. Let's just have some cajones and start heading in a new direction. You might be surprised at how many will follow.
*
Stalin = troll
kei & yuri,
Yeah, I agree. Tom Tomorrow had a good cartoon this week on the subject, sorta. It's basically like when the True Believers counter with "Why do you hate America" when you dare criticize the Boy Emperor, or like that dingbat who wrote on Gadflyer that Kerry should be more open religious. It means nothing, just empty rhetoric, and neither the Right nor the media will let Kerry (or anyone to the left of Colin Powell) get away with it. They'll just call it "pandering", and boom, you're having to defend against that rather than talk about shit that really matters.
SWR,
Oh, I agree totally (apart from going to church to please a girl's parents; fuck that shit, they're not gonna like me anyway). Kerry's Catholocism - which seems to be heartfelt, or at least more heartfelt than Bush's murky "God love" - is fine with me. I think his beliefs are poppycock, but I respect his need for 'em. As I've said many times before, whatever gets you through the night is jake with me.
But it doesn't matter, really, what he says, because the media lackeys and the Right will go after him from any direction. And they'll do it because for no other reason than he's a Democrat, and we leftists are all immoral baby killers and rampant sex fiends, so he much be lying, while a good Republican like Bush The Lesser must be telling the truth since the GOP is the "moral" party. It's like being in a bad western; there's no grey hats - only black and white - here's the role, so play it and tough titty if you wanna do it in a different way.
veritas -
the whole world awaits our upcoming election - i do believe there will be a collective, worldwide depression if we don't get Bush out of office.
*
I guess w didn't want flags at half staff on the 4th....
Posted 7/3/2004 1:49 PM
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Flags lowered for Reagan's death return to full-staff Saturday
WASHINGTON (AP) — The nation ends its formal mourning over the death of President Reagan on Saturday, when flags lowered to half-staff can again be flown at full-staff.
President Bush ordered flags flown at half-staff for 30 days after Reagan died on June 5 at age 93.
A proclamation by Bush on Friday did not say why flags were being raised early.
The lowered flags flew over days of funeral ceremonies in Washington and California.
The president's order raises U.S. flags flown over the White House, federal buildings, naval vessels, military buildings and embassies.
I think the country can handle it. Let's just have some cajones and start heading in a new direction. You might be surprised at how many will follow.
I agree, but do you know anything about the kind of high end prep school Kerry went to?
He imbibed all of that pompous morality crap from the second grade on. He sees nothing wrong with it. He won't fight on the issue and he'll get creamed if the media comes at him.
With Dean, on the other hand, I wish he would have gone after the media for baiting him on the religious issue. In his heart, he's a secular guy who's married to a Jewish woman and who's raising his kids Jewish.
He could have honestly fought the media on this issue and won simply because it was a fight he would have believed in.
And I was gonna add...
If the media really wanted to go after Kerry on stuff that matters, they could. There's plenty of stuff where the microscope would be useful - and not silly shit like the flip-flopping nonsense, which only works for folks who have no idea how Congress works - but they can't and must concentrate on the Miss Congienialty balderdash. Why? Because, basically, Kerry's stances on most everything aren't too beyond the pale on the standard line in Washington for Democrats and Republicans (which are seperated by shades of nuance). Difference is, as SWR pointed out, Kerry isn't as bull-goose crazy as Bush nor as completely unprepared for the job.
The media would have to cast a piercing eye on the Boy Emperor, and that would be tantamount to admitting they've been propping up a complete boob for the past four years.
because the media lackeys and the Right will go after him from any direction.
Backslider -
don't you think it's time we stop being afraid? we have everything to gain and nothing to lose. if we don't stand up for ourselves, sure enough we will not succeed. the time is now and defeatist thinking is old news.
*
veritas,
Need to do some editing on that cut-and-paste, bubba.
One advantage Kerry has: he's seen and, I'm sure, studied carefully, what happened to Gore and then Dean. He knows that corporate media ignores(and tacitly approves of) Bush's stuttering, tongue-tied mumblings, non-sequitors, weird repetitions, and other weirdness. They even find it 'cute'.
Kerry knows that one off-the-cuff remark carelessly made and suitable for spin, could really hurt him. The Dean Scream Machine is waiting for a new sound bite.
veritas,
oh ghastly deed! Surely the righteous republicans shall direct their ire to W. by shorting Reagan two full days of respect!
Why does W hate Ronnie?
SWR -
agreed about dean.
you know, even in the few short months since he dropped out of the primaries the world has become a much more dangerous place. that's why i think, even though dean was crucified and mocked for his stance, kerry might do better. just because of the timing.
shit, i don't know.
*
Kerry knows that one off-the-cuff remark carelessly made and suitable for spin, could really hurt him.
That's definitely a factor.
One argument you could make is that if the only thing they have on him is the fact that he's dull and pompous, they don't have anything at all.
Dull and pompous are subjective terms, aren't they?
I'm not seeing any dirt (financial or otherwise). They're flailing about looking for a hook to attack him with and not finding it.
Jenny,
Goodness gracious me, please don't think I'm being defeatist. Not by a long shot. I am in total agreement that the place is here and the time is now to kick a little ass. Don't get me wrong. We need a man to bust it out, and Kerry could definately be the cat for the job. To just fold would be the worst thing any human being of intelligence and conscience could do.
I realize that my previous scribblings do seem a bit pessimistic, granted, but that's definately not where I'm coming from. I'm just stating the facts of the game. The deck is stacked against Kerry in the matter, particularly after the past few years of The Powers That Be doing everything in their power to make sure Americans are as dumb and frightened as possible. But to say "fuck it, we can't win" surely ain't the answer. Same thing with playing nice, frankly, because if we lose this one...man, I don't even want to think about how hard coming back from ANOTHER four years of Bush's leadership is gonna be.
SWR -
by the way, we know that kerry's got fire in his belly, just by the comments he's made out of earshot (he thought).
Like K&Y said, that did not hurt him, it gave him a kind of gutsy cred and people thought he was pretty cool.
so even though he's a prep-school guy he does have a lot in common with many people, if he would just not tread too lightly. We expect him to be politic, but also to be ahead of the curve.
*
But what happens if Kerry says it? There's a media feeding frenzy. Every article about Kerry starts to be about his lack of religion. It turns into Dean and the scream.
Unless, of course, Kerry repeats verbatim the remarks of Abe Lincoln and reveals this at the end.
Backslider -
Cool. We all prop each other up from time to time, don't we. Next time I'm completely downcast and hopeless, remind me of the brighter side, okay?
*
by the way, we know that kerry's got fire in his belly, just by the comments he's made out of earshot (he thought).
That's what makes me think he's a bit stiff because he's trying not to give them anything to hang on him.
OK, say he were speaking from the heart. He'd please all of us, but look what happened to Dean. They took a moderate liberal from small town Vermont and turned him into a bad Dennis Hopper character.
Cool. We all prop each other up from time to time, don't we. Next time I'm completely downcast and hopeless, remind me of the brighter side, okay?
*
Jenny from the Blog
There is no brighter side, really. The fix is already in with the Diebold machines anyway.
A proclamation by Bush on Friday did not say why flags were being raised early.
So that Bush can appropriate July 4th with 'let's move on with the true heir to Ronnie's legacy'? Duh.
Or perhaps the Chimp just forgot how to raise them again.
"but look what happened to Dean. "
but like I said, that was before Abu Ghraib and hundreds more soldiers dying, and F911 and so many other things.
the media has turned, ever so slightly, and hearts are different now. i think.
*
Incognito -
But now we have the Florida felons list and a group is asking the world community to come in and monitor the upcoming elections (what a hoot - we're a real banana republic at this point). Not that any of this will matter, but these things are being discussed in an open forum now. and not just on the blogs.
*
but like I said, that was before Abu Ghraib and hundreds more soldiers dying, and F911 and so many other things.
the media has turned, ever so slightly, and hearts are different now. i think.
Yes. He hit me but he was so sorry about it later and even brought me flowers. No need for this restraining order. And goddamit, unike those "nice guys" he's really spontaneous and he turns me on. I'm going back to him.
Jenny,
Actually, I'm fairly optimistic about Kerry's chances come November, and that's even given his rather laid-back style since securing the nomination. Essentially, it's his election to lose. Apart from the True Believers - for whom Bush would have to do the "live boy, dead girl" thing to lose their faith, and maybe not even then - the vibe I'm getting isn't neccessarily pro-Kerry, but it's definately anti-Bush. I've heard a lot of folks who say they're uncomfortable with Kerry, but they're dead-set against voting for Bush. If that means they stay home on election day, so be it...but it's still less votes for Bush in the end.
I also have no problem whatsoever with being solidly ABB, depsite whoever the Democratic nominee is. Bush is, quite simply, a horrid president and is completely unsuited for job, surrounded my mendacious sociopaths only out for themselves, and toting an antiquated view of how the country and world should work. I can't think of one single thing Bush has done in office that I agree with or consider "good".
Will Kerry usher in a new age of enlightenment and progressiveness? Course not. He's basically a buisness-as-usual Democrat, but at least he's fucking sane. His administration will be a baby step forward, but at least it'll be a step forward.
Baring Incognito's ray of sunshine - which definately deserves some thought - or some whacked-out plan to cancel elections due to terrorist attacks, I really see Bush hittin' the trail come November.
SWR -
battered wife syndrome? NOT! there's got to be a time to work for change and hope. and it is now. i have my eyes wide open and my life is a testament to cynicism too -- but i feel, on a gut level, that kerry can and must do better.
*
Baring Incognito's ray of sunshine - which definately deserves some thought - or some whacked-out plan to cancel elections due to terrorist attacks, I really see Bush hittin' the trail come November.
If you go to Little Green Footballs or FreeRepublic a lot of them are starting to get bummed out about Novemeber.
They're really getting pessimistic that the "anti-semitic Islamofacist appeaser" and the "facist moonbat pussy terrorist enablers" (ie John Kerry and the Democrats) are going to win.
It's almost an exact mirror of the pessimism you see on leftist sites.
battered wife syndrome? NOT! there's got to be a time to work for change and hope.
Anybody who thinks the media cares about Americans dying in Iraq or are anything but the dirtbags they've always been is, yes, suffering from battered wife syndrome.
Get out now. Go to a shelter. Get that restraining order and move on.
"One night, probably in 1880, John Swinton, then the preeminent New York journalist, was the guest of honour at a banquet given him by the leaders of his craft. Someone who knew neither the press nor Swinton offered a toast to the independent press. Swinton outraged his colleagues by replying:
"There is no such thing, at this date of the world's history, in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it. There is not one of you who dares to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone.
"The business of the journalists is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. You know it and I know it, and what folly is this toasting an independent press? We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
(Source: Labor's Untold Story, by Richard O. Boyer and Herbert M. Morais, published by United Electrical, Radio & Machine Workers of America, NY, 1955/1979.)
...but at least he's fucking sane.
lots of repugs are staying home in november. no way they'll vote for bush and no way for kerry. fine by me as well.
just hope that kerry doesn't start sliding any further right to placate. and in this country right now, sliding right is all about morals and values. crazy.
i'm going to enjoy the weekend now. have a good one!
*
"Get out now. Go to a shelter. Get that restraining order and move on."
SWR - i was not talking about the media specifically, i know they have not changed fundamentally. i'm talking about the tone of the country.
just so you know, comparing a strong, independent woman to a pathetic battered wife is pretty insulting. you don't know me or my background or the fights i've taken on and maybe you, as a man (i presume) thinks what you said is funny. but it's not. and i'm not stupid or weak and i reject your assertions.
*
They're really getting pessimistic that the "anti-semitic Islamofacist appeaser" and the "facist moonbat pussy terrorist enablers" (ie John Kerry and the Democrats) are going to win.
It's almost an exact mirror of the pessimism you see on leftist sites.
SWR
And why do you think that is?
just so you know, comparing a strong, independent woman to a pathetic battered wife is pretty insulting.
I wasn't. I was comparing the media to an abusive spouse.
OK, it was sort of in bad taste. But that's the way they make me feel sometimes. They trick you into thinking they're nice and reasonable and moderate then BAM, smack you upside the head when you let your guard down.
And why do you think that is?
Occasionally checking these sites out is painful enough.
Don't ask me to get into their heads.
SWR,
The mainstream media game sorta reminds me of what Hunter Thompson said about the music business. A plastic hallway where pimps and whores run free and good men are ground up like hamburger, or something to that effect. The wonder and joy of the internet is the ability to double-check everything and form your own opinions. Jeremiah's above quote is pretty apt; it's always been thus, but at least nowadays, we can dig through the horseshit and maybe, just maybe, find a pony at the bottom.
OK, it was sort of in bad taste. But that's the way they make me feel sometimes. They trick you into thinking they're nice and reasonable and moderate then BAM, smack you upside the head when you let your guard down.
SWR
I see a lot of wishful thinking on the left. Hey, I think Kerry could and should win..if...there's not another catastrophic terrorist attack and the election isn't cancelled. If they can't do that even after an attack, then they'll steal the presidency again. There's trillions more for them to steal. That's what it all boils down to: trillions more to steal. There is simply no way in hell, whatever they have to do, they're going to go. They're like crack whores addicted to greed and power. I've never seen anything like it.
OK. Let me change my analogy to avoid offending women.
Anybody who believes the media is honest or cares about Americans dying in Iraq = Loser who goes to a strip club and thinks "wow man, she really likes me. And she's like not a real whore. She's only working her way through NYU."
OK. Maybe that wasn't too PC either but godammit it.
And of course, their stupidly insane wing nut enablers act as if Bush doesn't win, the galaxy will crack and an Iraqi will be masturbating in their mouths.
SWR -
i don't let the likes of george will or whoever get me too excited when they come up with a thoughtful piece. they revert almost immediately. but overall the media is making a stab at some kind of frail fairness these days. believe me, i think they stink too.
(i know you were comparing the media to an abusive spouse, and seemed to be comparing me to the spouse-ee -- no matter, communication like this is ripe for misunderstanding -- it's a wonder we don't have more of that on this site, with the massive back and forth we do).
okay. have a nice day.
*
And of course, their stupidly insane wing nut enablers act as if Bush doesn't win, the galaxy will crack and an Iraqi will be masturbating in their mouths.
You mean John Kerry doesn't want dark, swarthy men to rape my sister and carry her off to a brothel in Yeman?
Damn. You learn something new every day.
Ha. Ha. Next thing you'll be telling me is that those Europeans weren't happy about 9/11.
(i know you were comparing the media to an abusive spouse, and seemed to be comparing me to the spouse-ee -- no matter, communication like this is ripe for misunderstanding -- it's a wonder we don't have more of that on this site, with the massive back and forth we do).
Exactly. I was being colorful and vivid (in my overblown self-opinion).
Now think about all of the opportunities Kerry would give the press if he got a bit more spicy and a bit less dull?
They'd work that misunderstanding for everything it's worth.
Jenny from the Blog, While I'm not as positive on the "media" as you are I will admit that since January, they have gone from gloriously praising our fearless leader every 1/2 hour, to gloriously praising him every other hour. Not much of an improvement.
Does anyone know about this rumor? I saw this post from Kate on a thread from last night. Anyone?
...
I want those indictments, and I want them NOW!
Is there truth to the rumor(?) that Fitzgerald's grand jury closed up shop on Wednesday? Anybody know how grand juries work, i.e., how long after the empaneled jury is released can the indictments be announced? I guess I want to know: IF the grand jury finished its work on Wednesday (and how do we find out if THAT'S true?), does the fact that we've heard nothing so far mean that there are no indictments?
Kate
smarty jones | Email | Homepage | 07.03.04 - 1:50 pm
THANKS, SMARTY!! For re-posting above what I wrote last night -- and I'm re-posting it here again to give it yet another shot. I was disappointed when no one responded, either here or on the other thread. Of course, maybe no one knows the answer, or how to find out about the status of the grand jury (is it closed down or not?) -- but maybe someone else with legal experience will come along and finally give us a pointer. Perhaps there is some government (judicial branch) database with info on the current status of such entities... Anyway, I may just keep posting these questions from time to time in the hope that someone knowledgeable will catch sight of it. Thanks. It's an important question, no? I mean, for all of us desperate for indictments.
Some of the best Iraq real news coverage I found is at The New Standard Check it out.
Kate,
my suspicion is that the grand jury is still open, otherwise it would have garnered major press. I certainly hope that is the case!
Chris thank you for explaining how to do a link in Haloscan. I just did my first one. Yahoo.
smarty -
I think it was on Democratic Underground that I heard the rumor (?) about ten days ago that Wednesday was to be the last day, because they had six months to do their job. Supposedly June 30 was the end of six months. (I'm not even sure how to verify THAT.) And so someone who was in touch with Wayne Madsen (I think it was) said that if there were going to be indictments, they would happen in the coming week (i.e., by this past Friday). I wish I knew where to verify these things. I keep googling and finding nothing recent, just old articles about W lawyering up, then getting interviewed. Nothing current.
Kate,
I'll move your post to the open thread, o.k.?
See ya there.
P.S. Join Team Smarty!
Hmmmmm. Is there any "national poll" of audiences exting 911? Just wondering. 
-
exiting
Gamesman, happy to have been of service!
Jennifer, oh, ye of little faith!
As you discovered, you have to include the FULL URL, the 'http:' bits are important.
Once you get the hang of it, it's pretty much automatic to add an embedded link. I don't even think about it anymore.
Yes, thanks Chris, and my apologies for the PPPTTTHHHH! (But at the very least, even in my ineptitude I never broke haloscan!)
Bet? Bet?
What bet?
test-ignore
pointless and offtopic!
there
Holden: so I take it Atrios wasn't e-mailing you to yell at you for going OT?
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