I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
It's the way they perpetuate the us vs. them xenophobia that's rampant in america today.
You'll have to come and take it.
You can take the flag back. Just put it somewhere on every liberal cause.
In no time at all, the nutwings won't even want to look at the flag. But I guess that's not what 'taking the flag back' means. I truly don't see much chance for a unified country right now. The right-wing has worked on building trenches for over a decade and throwing verbal bombs and smears across the chasm. They have single-handedly caused the current strife and now they whine about it and pretend they never ever set up people like Coulter and Hannity and Limbaugh and O'Reilly to essentially preach hatred. Hatred seems to be the number one value the conservatives protect and cherish.
I think the packed theatres for F/911 show we're on the way to getting our damned flag back!
BBC Reporting........
that American Marine has been beheaded in Iraq.........
Thanks for linking to the editorial. I can understand what you're struggling with because back in the 60s I remember the first time a saw a flag sticker with the words "Love It Or Leave It" on it on the bumper of a car. It was so devastating I pulled off to the side of the road and cried . . .
Many Americans consider Woody Guthrie’s song “This Land Is Your Land,” penned in 1940, to be our unofficial national anthem.
Count me among those many Americans. I have a version/cover done by Bruce Springsteen in the 80's, thinks it was on the four album compilation. Wish Kerry would use it for his campaign song, brings tears to your eyes and catches the times we live in so well.
cs
Yeah, those were the days.
The article is part of a series of articles about taking back patriotism and what patriotism means to the left in this week's L.A. Weekly. There's also an excellent article, germane to several of the threads here, about reclaiming Jesus from the Right. Also, while you're at their site, check out the cartoons by Lalo Alcaraz -- he's got some truly powerful stuff:
L.A. Weekly: www.laweekly.com
Lalo's site: www.cartoonista.com
..oops, forgot a 'k':
www.laweekly.com
recently made the same point on my blog. check out the image from the GOP website, quoth, "red, white and republican colors"
its gotten to the point where they arent even sly about it anymore.
This line caught my eye, because it was close but not quite right:
>One of its stanzas updated Guthrie’s combination of outrage and patriotism:
Our outrage IS our patriotism!! OUR OUTRAGE IS OUR PATRIOTISM!!
They are two sides of the same coin. Maybe it's time to make this very clear to the world.
When the Lawrence decision came down last summer, some folks in the Castro lowered the rainbow flag and replaced it with an American one. It was the most powerful thing I heard of, on that huge day.
Liberals/leftists should never give up the flag. It's a symbol too powerful to ever go away--it's up to us to make sure it means what it should.
I am bothered that this Administration has perverted patriotism into a self-serving, war-mongering nationalism.
This is contrary to what I beleive this country was meant to be.
If the founding fathers had been conservatives the United States would not exist—They were the great liberals of their day.
Happy 4th of July...
I have felt true, honest heartbreak these last few years about what the Bush admin has done to our country. I feel real pride when I see the kind and generous spirit that makes up the backbone of this country and shame and revulsion when I see the mean, petty folks who want to divide us into US V. Them. Shame on GWB.
Lyrics to This land is your land
In the squares of the city - In the shadow of the steeple
Near the relief office - I see my people
And some are grumblin' and some are wonderin'
If this land's still made for you and me.
The flag is just a symbol. It means nothing by itself--it's what you invest it with. If you come from a place of unity and concern for others, if you want to make the world even a slightly better place through your thoughts, words and actions, if you care about justice in the world--then you're patriotic. If you wrap the flag around yourself to show off how "patriotic" you are, but care nothing for others, your "patriotism" means nothing--it's just vulgar exhibitionism....
--From one who was born on Flag Day.
Tena, thanks for the link and keeping things happening here.
Please come visit my puppet show at:
Welcome to the Puppet Show!
(Please have your sound on when you click)
Bill Moyers on Patriotism and the Flag
This is a short eloquent commentary that came at the right time for me. I too, have had a very difficult time dealing the the symbol of my country and patriotism being hijacked for right wing nationalistic ideology.
Nobody ever "took" your flag away.
If you feel insecure about overt displays of patriotism, that's your problem.
If you wish to publically display the flag, then display it.
If you wish to recite the pledge, recite it.
If you wish to express your love of country in public, without being embarrassed or feeling the need to "apologize" for being an American, then do so.
It's really your choice. At the very least, stop blaming others for your own choices.
Taking responsiblity is a good place to begin becoming an adult.
Let the games begin!
Fla. Voters Surprised to Be on Felons List
TAMPA, Fla. (AP) -- Many Floridians have been shocked to find their names on a new state list of nearly 48,000 people identified as felons who may be ineligible to vote, even though they have no criminal record or have been granted clemency.
``Weird. I've never been arrested for felonies,'' William Miller, 50, of Tampa.
The unemployed mechanic has no criminal record and is a registered voter. He apparently was confused with a man who has the same first and last name, plus the same birthday -- but who has a different middle name and a criminal record...
Considering this country was founded by a bunch of leftist wackos (democracy? what a crazy idea!) I think this should be a pretty easy fight.
I have felt true, honest heartbreak these last few years about what the Bush admin has done to our country. I feel real pride when I see the kind and generous spirit that makes up the backbone of this country and shame and revulsion when I see the mean, petty folks who want to divide us into US V. Them. Shame on GWB.
Hope this doesn't triple post, but is holoscsan broken?
Taking responsiblity is a good place to begin becoming an adult.
David Patterson
The right-wing wrapped themselves in the flag and then rolled around in huge chunks of glistening crap.
Grow up.
Many Floridians have been shocked to find their names on a new state list of nearly 48,000 people identified as felons who may be ineligible to vote, even though they have no criminal record or have been granted clemency.
Gee, that sounds a lot like how they stole the election the last time....
Love it or leave it?
LIVE it or leave it, one might counter...
It is my flag. It's our flag. The thing that has made me craziest about the last fifteen years is how it's always their side versus our side. It's all our country, and we're all supposed to be on the same side.
The phrase "Love It Or Leave It" is so juvenile...It like treating citizenship as if it were some kind of conformist high school clique...Many Conservatives, IMO, have a hard time differentiating between their country and the elected representatives running the government...I'm sick and tired of the right wing co-opting patriotism, religion, personal responsibility and family. I was born here, I'm an American, I plan to stay, and if some things are fucked-up, it's my patriotic duty to try and correct it 'cuz we're all in it...
Now I get it as to why that pic of Big John throwing the baseball moved me so unexpectedly. I want my country back. The good old days are a distant memory.
Let the games begin!
smarty -
tee hee. this is fun.
*
It's because I'm a patriot that I so strongly object to the Republican's attempt to destroy America.
It's been too long for me to remember who it was, but one of the early patriots had a good response that that America Right or Wrong nonsense: My country, Sir, my county. When wrong, to be put right. When right, to be kept right.
(He meant right in the sense of "correct" -- not as a side in politics.)
Sent the LAWeekly to my whole, far flung family for 4th msg. OY! Why does this whole situation make me feel so sad?
Re: Florida Voters List... (AP)
A spokeswoman for Republican Gov. Jeb Bush dismissed Democrats' complaints as ``pure politics.'
Short version: Cheney Off.
All class, those Bush Boys.
I think we should just hold a Constitutional Convention and split the country into two. Let the wing nuts sink into rural rot in their part like the South after the Civil War. I'm sick fooling with the stupid things.
Forrest, that's a nice rejoinder.
We could take the North-east and the West. They can have part of the Mid-west and the South. Maybe we could later join with Canada.
Freepers Heads Will Explode.
By JIM KRANE, Associated Press Writer
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraq's prime minister, less than a week after taking power, may offer amnesty to insurgents and could extend it to those who killed American troops in an apparent bid to lure Saddam Hussein loyalists from their campaign of violence.
A spokesman for Iyad Allawi went as far as to suggest attacks on U.S. troops over the past year were legitimate acts of resistance — a sign of the new government's desire to distance itself from the 14-month U.S.-led occupation of Iraq.
click homepage for link.
Oh, and Chalabi is back!
About a week ago I blogged about the flag, and how this administration has actually made the sight of it brings to mind the loss of its proud high ground we have suffered under Bush.
Scorpio
Eccentricity
First, the flag.
Then, the language.
And chris/tx, that's a damn good idea for a theme song. It was even included on my kids' 'kid' records. Hey, how 'bout 'Zero, My Hero'?!
-
Said what I believe with my soul
Ain't what I see with my eyes
And there's no turning back this time
I am a patriot
And I love my country
because my country
Is all I know
And the rivers open for the righteous...someday
--Steven Van Zandt
Happy fourth, everyone.
Wonderful quote, Hecate! Well said!
Our peace and justice group created our logo out of the symbology of the flag. It has curvy red stripes on a white background, and 3 stars - there would be 5 stars, but two of the stars are actually other items - one, a dove, and one, a scales of justice. Same idea: we wanted our flag back. We're marching with two huge banners with our logo on it this coming Monday in the Idependance Day parade. :D
Off topic: what the hell is up with Blogspot? Half the time I come here or to other Blogspot blogs, I get the file not found error. Grrr.
The Founding Fathers would weep and gnash their teeth if they could see what freepers call patriotism these days.
stop blaming others for your own choices
I did not choose to be called a traitor for not supporting this war.
I did not choose to be called a sore loser for speaking out against the disenfranchisment of thousands of Florida voters.
I did not choose to be marginalized in the political discourse by being branded a leftist, or a radical, or a terrorist sympathizer because I do not support or respect the Bush administration.
To deride and label your fellow citizens as being un-American for disagreeing with you is not an act of "overt patriotism".
I do choose to be a good citizen and voice my concerns about where this country is heading.
I do choose to be a true patriot for standing true to upholding the rule of law, and calling the war on terrorism out for what it has become -- an illegal act of agression against a people who never posed a threat to us.
I do choose to hold my fellow citizens to a higher standard of behavior than that of schoolyard bullies.
And until those who choose to hide behind the flag (while they gut our treasury, order torture, and ruin our skies, air and water) come out from behind their grand, stately camouflage and show themselves for the monsterous perversions of what an American ought to be -- you can't blame real Americans for being so disgusted by this shameful hypocracy that they pause before claiming to hold any of our traditional symbols dear.
So much has been co-opted and twisted by those who have no place to consider themselves worthy representatives of the people that the people have every reason to choose to turn away from all that they represent (whether it be in the form of the symbolism they have usurped, or in their actions).
Support the troops! does not mean that our leaders are righteous and truthful, and should receive unquestioning loyalty.
God bless America does not mean we can do whatever we like around the globe.
One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all does not mean it's okay if our grandkids pay off our debt so we can make a tiny minority richer with ruinious tax cuts.
I am watching F 9/11 on the 4th!
Our flag should be something that will lift us. Bush has cast a shadow onto it. For that he should go down if for nothing else.
Scorpio
Eccentricity
Bandar Bush Gets Things Done!!
U.S. Said to Return Saudi Suspects in Secret Deal, NYT Reports
July 3 (Bloomberg) -- Five suspected terrorists were released from the U.S. naval base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and returned to Saudi Arabia as part of a secret agreement last year, the New York Times reported, citing unidentified senior U.S. and U.K. officials.
In return, Saudi Arabia released five U.K. citizens and two others who had been convicted of terrorist strikes in Saudi Arabia, the newspaper reported on its Web site in a story to be published in tomorrow's edition. U.K. diplomats said the men had likely given false confessions after being tortured by Saudi security police officers, the newspaper reported.
Pentagon, Central Intelligence Agency and Justice Department officials at first objected to the transfer of the Saudi suspects, who they said were possibly too great of a threat to be released from U.S. custody, the Times reported, citing unidentified officials involved in the deliberations. The deal helped satisfy important allies as the U.S. invaded Iraq, the paper said.
``There is no recollection here of any linkage between these two actions,'' Sean McCormick, a spokesman for the National Security Council, told the Times. He denied that the Saudi detainees were transferred in exchange for the U.K. prisoners. He said the return of the Saudis was ``part of the normal policy of transferring detainees from Guantanamo for prosecution or continued detention.''
(New York Times 7-4)
"In that tradition, George W. Bush has tried to define opposition to his war policy as unpatriotic. His first response to 9/11 included the declaration that “either you are with us or you are with the terrorists,” a comment aimed not only at leaders of other nations but at domestic critics as well. (The misnamed Patriot Act was clearly designed to stigmatize dissent.)"
Three lies in three sentences. Not bad. No wonder "atrios" liked it.
A spokeswoman for Republican Gov. Jeb Bush dismissed Democrats' complaints as ``pure politics.'
...the nerve of those Democrats insisting that the election process be honest.......
ChurchofBruce - Were the lyrics you quoted up thread by Steven Van Zandt or Jackson Browne?
George w Bush, you have insulted my REAL integrity. Now, go fuck yourself. There! I feel better.
If you must wrap yourself in the flag to prove you are a patriot, and if you must advertise your Christianity, then you are neither a patriot nor a Christian.
"The People", the real "The People" (so they tell us in thought, word, and deed) ... politicians, rulers, enforcers and such have been telling us for almost 40 years now that it's their flag, not ours... I'm of a mind to let them keep it. They've soiled it for a century or better, and the dry cleaner says it can't be cleaned.
Happy E Pluribus Unum Day gentle people!
When Jeb says it's "pure politics," we should say: Of course. Who does and who doesn't get to vote is a political question. It was politics when Jeb tried to keep this mistake-ridden list secret and it's politics when we publicize it. Next question?
My musician friend from SF is playing some awesome medely of patriotic tunes on his tromebone to serinade in the pre 4th celebrations. Divine!
MoniCA - Well said, and RIGHT ON!...Our Founding Fathers, whom I suspect are turning in their graves, were not only revolutionaries, but they were progressives and liberal thinkers whose goal was to oppose the devine right of kings for the good of the common man...It's our country, and I say "let the tories and royalists leave."
I agree with JayinABQ entirely!
Tonite on the History channel......Three hours on Hitlers SS. Who are the lazy assholes that own this channel? When do you ever see in depth stuff from the 16th, 17th or 18th century? This is the shit they have on during the fourth of july weekend?
There's a meme going around that conservatives want a "stern father" government, and liberals want a "loving mother" government. This is bullshit. This liberal here wants a "maturing child" government. What do I mean by that?
A conservative patriot loves his country the way a son loves his father.
But a liberal patriot loves his country the way a father loves his son.
Think of what a parent's love for a child entails. It is the deepest, and most abiding of loves, but it carries with it responsibilities beyond the love of parent, or romantic love, or friendship.
As citizens of a democratic republic, we need to understand that we are all the fathers and mothers of our country. The United States of America is our child, and we have the obligation to bring it up right.
A father doesn't hand his son the keys to the car and a credit card and say, "Go on. Have fun." A father has a duty to ask where the kid is going, what he's doing, and what time he'll be back. And if he doesn't like the answer, he has the duty to say, "No."
A patriot doesn't hand his government the armed forces and a war chest and say, "Go on. Have fun." A patriot has a duty to ask his nation where it's going, and what it's doing, and when it will come home. And if a patriot doesn't like the answer, the patriot must say, "No."
And I agree with bigvic in his post just above mine...oh, god, this ego stroking makes me feel so dirty.
"Hat"--
Actually, it wasn't "Atrios" who posted this article, but "Tena."
By your own standards, that makes you a LIAR!
MoniCA - Well said, and RIGHT ON!...Our Founding Fathers, whom I suspect are turning in their graves, were not only revolutionaries, but they were progressives and liberal thinkers whose goal was to oppose the devine right of kings for the good of the common man...It's our country, and I say "let the tories and royalists leave."
Ricardo
Both interesting posts. You're right. They are like the royalists at the beginning of this country that worshiped the king and its symbolisms of state and nothing about ordinary citizens. How truly un-American. And sort of funny they're too stupid to realize it.
Poor hat. Too stupid to realize he doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.
I have one of those small American flags displayed in a street facing window right next to my Kerry window sign.
Looks great.
.
In the back window of my Bigass 71 Ford truck I have a flag decal (I don't expect to get into heaven) next to my "Somewhere in Texas a village is missing its idiot" bumper sticker.
"Freepers Heads Will Explode."
in the case of a vacuum, an implosion is more likely.
I just posted on the lastest Wilgoren Outrage over at Kautilyan
In the immortal words of Samuel Goldwyn, "Include me out."
I don't want the flag. I don't want any fucking flag.
I don't want any fucking country either.
I want Life -- not Death.
King Kaufman actually wrote a piece for Salon about this way back on Sept. 18, 2001.
http://archive.salon.com/mwt/fea...001/09/18/flag/
A highlight:
Bruce Springsteen said something in his "Born in the U.S.A." days that stayed with me: "That's my flag too." How did the Republicans and the gun nuts and the xenophobes co-opt it?
There are two kinds of patriots: The "God Bless America" kind and the "This Land Is Your Land" kind. I'm the latter.
[redacted b/c I think most readers here know the backstory on "This Land Is Your Land"]
That song's political and social criticism, its questioning, are also part of what make this country great. These things, as much as our culture, our national personality, our country's physical magnificence, are what the flag represents to me.
Incognito -- Thanks.
I always thought, though, that the Bushies were deliberately trying to breathe life back into the Adams'-style Royalty-lite Federalism of the eighteenth century. They're obsessed with the Adamses -- being another father-son presidential grouping.
Well, I sure do hope that their little fantasy of resemblance to them plays itself out completely. Both were single term presidents, too!
Atrios, man, I locked myself out again.
Atrios?
*bang*
*bang*
*bang*
Shit, he left already.
Forrest -- That's pretty much the conclusion I came to; well, half at least. I realized America is a principle, like Ellison said, and as such America can't be defended, it has to be lived.
Here are some words from Woody Guthrie, I think they're as appropriate now as they were then.
I AIN'T A GONNA KILL NOBODY
"I took a bath this morning in six war speeches, and a sprinkle of peace. Looks like ever body is declaring war against the forces of force. That's what you get for building up a big war machine. It scares your neighbors into jumping on you, and then of course they them selves have to use force, so you are against their force, and they're aginst yours. Look like the ring has been drawed and the marbles are all in. The millionaires has throwed their silk hats and our last set of drawers in the ring. The fuse is lit and the cannon is set, and somebody is in for a frailin. I would like to see every single soldier on every single side, just take off your helmet, unbuckle your kit, lay down your rifle, and set down at the side of some shady lane, and say, nope, I aint a gonna kill nobody. Plenty of rich folks wants to fight. Give them the guns."
If anyone's interested, I have a short documentary playing online at Atom Films that deals with the expropriation of the American flag since 9/11. Check it out at:
http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/a...ntent/
old_glory
“A survey of nouveau-patriot fashion statements, innovative merchandising concepts, and xenophobic political rallies, OLD GLORY is a satirical look at the Stars and Stripes in post-9/11 culture.”
And Ricardo, too. 
And no flag for me. That's over for a long while in this household.
I remember stopping off at a drug store on September 11th, getting safety pins and a length of red, white, and blue ribbon for people in my office. I remember thinking back to the days when I was a kid and my mom taught me flag etiquette, what it stood for and why we should respect our flag and treat it with dignity... then I realized we didn't have one at home, so got us one. And then I saw the Sikh gas station owners take off their turbans and put up the flag out of fear; then the Pakistani shop owners down the street put big flags in their windows because they were getting death threats from other Americans.
Kudos to all of you who feel right to display the flag in tandem with liberal statements, but I just can't anymore. Maybe on November 3rd I'll feel differently.
I am a patriot and I love my country
Because my country is all I know
And I ain't no communist,
and I ain't no capitalist
And I ain't no socialist,
and I sure ain't no imperalist
And I ain't no democrat,
and I ain't no republican either
And I only know one party
and its name is freedom
I am a patriot
And the river opens for the righteous,
someday.
(gratis churchofbruce for the reminder)
Kerry was skeet shooting this day. He hit 17 out of 20.
I'm with you, Monica. I printed out a peace flag from the internet and stuck in the window right after 9/11 cuz I could tell what way the wind was gonna blow. And we have a flag sticker that says "Think. It's patriotic" on the bumper next to Dennis the K. The Think and Kucinich stickers actually draw lots of curious questions and no hostile ones so far here in the central Ohio bible belt, but a regular old flag, not since around 1965.
Displaying the flag is right up there with supporting the troops, in things that the wingnuts shouldn't be able to own. There are still, in my neighborhood, plenty of "War Is Not The Answer" yard signs displayed; some are next to trees that are tied with yellow ribbon that stands for 'bring home the troops'. My "War Is Not..." sign has a small American flag next to it on holidays like Memorial Day, July 4th...
Many Americans consider Woody Guthrie’s song “This Land Is Your Land,” penned in 1940, to be our unofficial national anthem.
did you hear katherine singing this on OFRANKEN FACTOR yesterday?
it was aDORubble!!!!
they had a vocal chorus as in-studio guests & katherine wanted to sing THIS LAND IS YOUR LAND & the chorus poo-pooed the idea, saying ti was too complicated to sing accapella.
katherine wanted to prove how fun & simple it is to sing, so she began singing it in her most earnest voice & it was JUST LOVLEY!!!!
then it all fell apart because they didnt know all the words....but while it lasted it was BEAUTIFUL!!!
i love katherine.
Many Americans consider Woody Guthrie’s song “This Land Is Your Land,” penned in 1940, to be our unofficial national anthem.
did you hear katherine singing this on OFRANKEN FACTOR yesterday?
it was aDORubble!!!!
they had a vocal chorus as in-studio guests & katherine wanted to sing THIS LAND IS YOUR LAND & the chorus poo-pooed the idea, saying ti was too complicated to sing accapella.
katherine wanted to prove how fun & simple it is to sing, so she began singing it in her most earnest voice & it was JUST LOVLEY!!!!
then it all fell apart because they didnt know all the words....but while it lasted it was BEAUTIFUL!!!
i love katherine.
sorry for the double post.
forgive me.
Quoted as they signed the Declaration of Independence:
"I shall have a great advantage over you Mr. Gerry, when we are all hung for what we are now doing. From the size and weight of my body, I shall die in a few minutes, but from the lightness of your body, you'll dance in the air for an hour or two before you're dead." They all laughed. Colonel Benjamin Harrison said to a much smaller co-signer of The Declaration of Independence…as they signed the document that would change the world. …knowing as they signed it, that they were all dead men as of that moment. Now the Colonel was a tall man, and weighed well over two hundred pounds. Mr. Gerry was five foot tall in his shoes, and weighed a hundred pounds…soaking wet.
If you have no honor, you will live in tyranny. If you hold nothing sacred, you are no man. You are an animal instead. If you have nothing of value in your life but what you hold in your hands, you are indeed a poverty stricken fellow. Do you know why you believe what you believe today?…or do you only parrot what others whisper into your ear? What do you hold sacred? Do you even know what the word means? Where is your honor? Do you know what honor really and truly is? Those men knew what they did and exactly why they did it. They met their fates as men. What will be your fate? …or mine?
(borrowed from my Brother - Warren R. Bonesteel, SGT, USMC 1976-1983 Rapid City, SD)
WTF? Here's a current ad at cnn.com:
A Flyboy's Story (8 p.m. ET)
"CNN Presents": The 41st president returns to where he was shot down 59 years ago near a small island in the Pacific Ocean.
Which president? 41st? Who was that again? Reagan, right?
And here's a nice story (good bait-and-switch headline, too):
Midwest Theaters Ban 'Fahrenheit 9/11'
President of Midwest Theater Company Refuses to Screen Michael Moore Documentary 'Fahrenheit 9/11'
The Associated Press
DECORAH, Iowa July 3, 2004 — The president of a company that owns movie theaters in Iowa and Nebraska is refusing to show director Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11."
R.L. Fridley, owner of Des Moines-based Fridley Theatres, says the controversial documentary incites terrorism.
Fridley said in an e-mail message to company managers that the company does not "play political propaganda films from either the right or the left."
"Our country is in a war against an enemy who would destroy our way of life, our culture and kill our people," Fridley wrote. "These barbarians have shown through (the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001) and the recent beheadings that they will stop at nothing. I believe this film emboldens them and divides our country even more."
"Fahrenheit 9/11" won best picture at the 2004 Cannes Film Festival and has grossed millions of dollars at the box office. Moore won an Academy Award for an earlier work, "Bowling for Columbine."
Critics accuse the film of being an unfair and inaccurate portrayal about President Bush's policies before and after Sept. 11, 2001.
A Flyboy's Story (8 p.m. ET)
"CNN Presents": The 41st president returns to where he was shot down 59 years ago near a small island in the Pacific Ocean.
Again? CNN shows this every month, it seems.
I'm with Smarty on 2 things: the Plame indictments, and seeing F911 tomorrow (it'll be the third time for me). That's the best way for me to show my patriotism right now. It sickens me that once upon a time, it was considered a duty of the citizenry to challenge their leaders. Now, doing so somehow equates to treason (MAnn Coulter's version) or being unpatriotic. Well, they can fuck themselves, while I contribute to continued record-setting numbers for Michael Moore.
On another note, I just watched Fog Of War. Very good movie, for those who haven't seen it. It's true: the more things change, the more they stay the same. Until election day. 
Philalethes sez:
Which president? 41st? Who was that again? Reagan, right?
Bush the Elder.
.
Phucking Ollie North on PHUCKING FOX accuses the "media" of deaths in Iraq. This is part of the un-American right's coordiniated attacks on "the liberal" media in order to claim that it is the "negative media" not their UTTER FAILURES that are to blame for all the problems we have seen out of this regime...
"The prison issue has inflamed the Arab world because too many of our political and media elites have treated the shameful actions of a few soldiers in an Iraqi prison as though it was the modern equivalent of the My Lai massacre. The blood of Paul Johnson is on their hands."
I can honestly say that many of the facts he presented in the article were new to me. I have never been a fan of the education I received years back, now I am appalled.
The article left me absolutely in shock.
tomorrow, for the first time, i am going to hang the american flag outside my home. how does it look to you?
http://tinyurl.com/yt9eq
I got it just for july 4th from the nice folks at www.peaceflags.org.
My daughter's friend (in seventh grade and a rabid liberal) curled her lip as she asked me why I had a small American flag decal on my windshield. I told her the republicans do not own the flag, it is ours, too. Her face cleared as she realized what I meant, and she agreed. One more patriot in the making.
Atrios, man, I locked myself out again.
Atrios?
*bang*
*bang*
*bang*
Shit, he left already.
Holden Caulfield | Email | Homepage | 07.03.04 - 7:42 pm
Holden's not here, man.
Funny thing, Debi Srail, who is running for the State House here in Washington State (I'm her campaign manager), has been campaigning lateley in a nice red and blue suit with a white blouse. A number of folks have given her flack for wearing "republican colors"-- something which cranks her mightily. When asked about it n a Q&A after a recent speech she said "I would like my opponent and her republican friends to give me back my flag--- they're not using it anyway!"
BTW, if you would like to help out a good, well-informed progressive candidate defeat a well funded 12 year do-nothing republican, take a look at her page at the homepage link. And if you are feeling generous, giv her a little turkee.
I re-read the Constitution every damn 4th.
Ordinarily it's something I take some satisfaction in doing. But for the last three years, it's been accompanied by the pissed-off thought: Why the hell hasn't Bush ever done this?
His swearing to uphold it while obviously having no knowledge of, or respect for its contents, in retrospect, was completely typical of the lack of responsibility that's characterized every instant of his presidency since, and everything about his life before.
ABB was always about love of country.
Tonite on the History channel......Three hours on Hitlers SS. Who are the lazy assholes that own this channel? When do you ever see in depth stuff from the 16th, 17th or 18th century? This is the shit they have on during the fourth of july weekend?
Rule of thumb for history broadcasts: Nazis get ratings. But you do get 'Liberty's Kids' on PBS.
A little project for those interested:
Re-read the Declaration of Independence. Take a look at the 1689 Bill of Rights, its political forebear. Make a mental list of the chief objections of both sets of authors. Now think about the Chimperor.
Ollie North is the walking definition of insubordination, and a disgrace to the Corps. And he is quite familiar with bloody hands, thank you.
-
I have been feeling anti-flag too, since 9-11. Well, not anti-flag, but anti cheesy "we will never forget" window decals, etc. We are thinking of buying a "Don't Tread on Me" flag, but for now, our pole is empty. My whole family wears flag shirts for the 4th, but this year I am doing something different. I designed this and am just about to iron it on a new white tee.
I may even wear it tomorrow morning when I lector at church.
If you want to get really ill at the co-opting of our forefathers on the right, check out Coral Ridge Ministries site. They even have a clip of D. James Kennedy refuting that Jefferson was a Deist.
I mean, by the right. See, these nutjobs have fried my brain. I nearly jumped out of my skin last night watching F/911. In the "haves and have mores" scene, who is sitting behind Bush but Father Richard John Neuhaus, looking for all the world like Emperor Palpatine licking his lips at the sight of Anankin Skywalker. Everyone else was gasping at Bush's commment but I was hiding under the seat mumbling "will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?" These right wingers are EVERYWHERE!
One good thing about the Wingnut Flad decal craze; it's made it much easier to spot them on the freeway, and move over a lane. Two flags, I scoot over, three, and I scoot way over. More than three, I take the next exit, and then get back on. I'm not kidding, either. On the Eastex last year there was a Jeepoid looking kinda thing with five, believe it or smurf it, on the back window, and this asshole was driving like an escaped mental patient. (First name Hannibal). First time I can remember wishing I had a gun in my truck.
As for the National Anthem, even as a kid, I wondered why America the Beautiful wasn't our National Anthem, instead of that horrible Stars & Stripes thing, that hardly no one could sing, anyway.
Sirius satellite radio just announced they're adding a new channel: "Sirius Patriot: Traditional American values programming and other prominent conservative voices." Let's see, if liberal is the opposite of conservative, that makes liberals the opposite of patriots... in other words, traitors?
Note that they already have Sirius Right ("Conservative Talk") and Sirius Left ("Liberal Talk") channels. The good news is that they're also adding Air America ("Progressive Talk").
ChurchofBruce - Were the lyrics you quoted up thread by Steven Van Zandt or Jackson Browne?
That's a Little Steven original, from his second solo album, Voice Of America (a classic, sadly out of print) in, IIRC, 1984.
Jackson covered the song. As did Eddie Vedder.
I checked and I was right--1984. I checked at Little Steven's website (www.littlesteven.com).
He's written essays about all his solo albums, and this is what he had to say about that song:
------
I Am A Patriot
I stared at that title for two years.
I knew I had to say it because I wanted to make it crystal clear that criticizing one's government that is compromising its ideals is a citizen's patriotic duty.
It's a general/main theme of the album song.
Don't call me names and put me in your convenient, politically expedient categories. I'm just a man trying to make a living. I'm the same as you.
Jackson Browne does a nice version of this one.
Somebody told me Eddie Vedder and Pearl Jam have been doing it live also.
When you're not writing pop songs and your songs are really personal it's especially cool when other people do them.
----------
I love Little Steven
Last time I went to a peace demo, I took a couple gross of little flag pins (I stocked up when Oriental Trading Company (www.orientaltrading.com) had them on sale. The irony of made-in-China U.S. flags is off topic . . . ) to give away. Almost everyone was happy to take one. Most of the reluctant ones took one when I explained, "When you find stolen property, you try to return it to its rightful owner."
Interestingly, the only strong refusers were people old enough to have personal memories of the heat of the Vietnam War.
Try it at home! It's easy and (reasonably) cheap.
Just back from my local Fourth-of-July parade. 39 of us marched with our local Democratic City Committee, the largest contingent in years, along with our Congressman (John Tierney) and our State Senate candidate.
Lots of support from our neighbors on the street. It's great to feel like we owned the holiday, rather than the small contingent of Republicans that were there.
Americans are ready for an honest patriotism...let's give it to them.
BTW, we need someone out there to write a campaign song for the Democrats this fall.
The Cato Institute has little books that have the Declaration of Independence, and the Constitution with the amendments. It's a little thing, Very easy to snail mail. Costs about $5. ISBN 1882577981. What if everybody mailed a copy to Chimpy (who would have to have someone read it to him) and to Ayatolla Ashcroft? Just a thought.
Sorry for mthe following downer on the 4th of July but it's all I can think about as I consider the state of the nation currently:
From "Christmas in My Soul"---Laura Nyro, 1970:
I love my country
As it dies
In war and pain
Before my eyes
I walk the street
Where disrespect has been
The sins of politics
The politics of sin
The heartlessness
That haunts my soul
On Christmas
Christmas in my soul
Come young braves
Come young children
Come to the book of love
with me
Respect your brothers and sisters
Come to the book of love
I know it ain't easy but
We've got to look for a better day
Come young braves
Come young children
It's been 34 years and that's still my 4th of July anthem.
Oh, y'all have made me cry throughout this thread AND laugh so that I don't cry some more. It's people like you who have made me proud to be an American the past year or so. It's so important that we do this work to reclaim our country, including its flag and all the ideals it has stood for.
My six-year-old knows most of the words (all verses!) to "This Land is Your Land, This Land is My Land" and sings it with zealous. *G*
Dreier and Flacks have another good article that sort of set me on the road to reclaiming my patriotism. You can see it here:
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mht...020603&
s=dreier
I got to meet Howard Dean last May when he came to town for our Jefferson-Jackson dinner. A handful of us stood outside of the hotel waving signs to welcome him. He was drawing much bigger crowds by that time in other parts of the country--a sad commentary on my state. Anyway, one of the things he pointed out was the small American flag pin that he wore daily on his lapel. "This is not the flag of the Republican Party," he said. I fell in love. *G*
Happy Independence Day!
Toes,
How can you go wrong with Laura Nyro?
fuck the flag, i want my COUNTRY back.
Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled... Rush - Territories.
Someone needs to make a sticker of the first line of the Constitution. SPecifically 'WE THE PEOPLE'. Then, to the side, say "There is no 'Us' or 'Them'. Only 'We'."
ANother one could feature 2 Mr. Pennybags from Monopoly, one on the right in red, another in blue, both with a sign 'I AM AN AMERICAN'. Both would feature some redeeming aspect of both sides of the spectrum, with the slogan "There Is No Monopoly On 'Being American'."
Finally, for the obligatory snark, one with the textbook definition of 'liberal'. Above it, "Change can be Good". Below it, "So Why Can't Liberalism"? Either that, or a simple one just stating that "'Liberal' is NOT a Four Letter Word".
Very good article. Along with morality, the Left needs to stop conceding patriotism to the Right. True patriotism isn't following it blindly, but giving it constructive criticism. Though blunt, F911 is constructive because so many people aren't aware of the facts it has brought to light.
It's stuff like "AmeriKKKa sucks" by morons such as albert champion that more than cross the line. Or that bitch at the Nation that told her daughter to take down the flag soon after 9/11 because of what SHE thought it represented. This shit is just as bad as blind loyalty.
the Left needs to stop conceding patriotism to the Right.
There is no way I'm flying that damned MIA flag.
I always have treated the flag and bibles with some reverence, short of idolatry, mainly because that is how I was raised. Growing up, the flag always belonged to someone else - the school, the post office, etc., but I learned how to fold it, the rules for its care and so forth. It was a public thing. My folks did not fly one on holidays, nobody in the neighborhood did, that I recall, but we all respected it.
As best I can tell, back in WWII, the only troops who wore the 3x5 inch flag patch were Rangers, who wore them on their paratrooper jackets when dropping in behind enemy lines so that the French civilians would believe who they were. That is logical, but the rest of the troops had no need to advertise which side they were on since back then you had front lines and rear areas and such.
I remember when I first started seeing the flag patch on the arms of jackets worn by cops and deputies. I thought "What the fuck? Is that to keep me from confusing him with Mexican federales, or the French Foreign Legion? Or to remind this dumb, racist, facist fuck what country he lives in?". The only rational motive I could see was that this was to identify him and his beliefs with the country and patriotism, to the exclusion of others, like blacks 'making trouble', longhairs, war protestors and such. That did not make me hate the flag, but did make me hate its prostitution at the hands of barbarians who beat the heads of citizens exercising their First Amendment rights, guaranteed by the very Constitution that every sworn officer and troop promises to defend, so help them God.
-
Part of getting our country back is getting its symbols back.
An intriguing question to me is, Why do human beings feel such a deep yearning for nationalistic pride (or shame)? Does being a citizen of a particular nation-state make you personally responsible for all the good and bad things that the nation's government is doing and has ever done?
Every nation has corrupt political leaders who do horrible things, as well as great leaders who do noble things. Shit happens; miracles happen too. Why can't we just accept that and go about our lives and our civic duties with as best we can, effecting social progress as best we can, without getting into either positive or negative ego trips about what corrupt or noble political leaders do?
I get the impression that many Americans are conditioned to make their nationalistic pride a fundamental pillar of their ego-identity. In other words, many Americans base a great deal of their personal self-esteem on the idea that being an American makes them part of something special, something better and higher and more civilized and more advanced than the rest of the world. Many Americans base their self-esteem on the feeling that America is a bastion of goodness and being a patriotic American makes them a good person.
The corollary, of course, is that many Americans feel personally shamed by their government's corrupt actions, even if they bear no personal connection to those actions; e.g. indigenous genocide, slavery, white male supremacy, class bigotry, neo-imperialism, etc.
It kinda seems like this construction of the American ego makes Americans incredibly easy to confuse and deceive, because they feel compelled to defend their identity by defending their view of America. Challenging their ideas about America is like challenging their view of themselves and their worth as human beings. And my experience is that no amount of exposure to reality will change a person's mind when their ego-identity is at stake.
Politicians and propangandists, it would appear, exploit this weakness of the American ego ruthlessly.
Just a few rambling thoughts, anyway. Dunno if they really make much sense.
Just as an addendum, I do happen to consider myself a "patriot" (for now) in the sense that I try to genuinely speak my mind and do my part as a conscientious citizen of the world, in league with all the people of the Earth and, indeed, all sentient beings. For what it's worth.
Happy Indepdence Day!
Peace.
On the love it or leave it's
Maybe they would feel more comfortable if they moved to Burma, I'm sure the Burmese government would welcome them with open arms. Their 1 deminsional patriotism would then find full and and unrestrained realization, allowing their full vengence to find a gloryious resolution in the supreme expression of their mastery of all that is knowable and achievable, and to weld the the the sword of truth against all the self loathing pathetic academic do-gooder elites,with absolute imperial impunity.......Yea,Burma
IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen United States of America,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions
.. on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited d
domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.
We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
Regarding the US flag:
Last week, I had a strange conversation with a friend who used to decorate his flat with a lot of Stars and Stripes. Purely apolitical, he likes Western movies, barbecues and other trappings of the American Way of life.
The, last month he decided to take them down, since he had come to see them as symbols of aggression, injustice and oppression. But what did he replace them with?
A large Southern battle flag (the saltire one, not Stars and Bars). He is completely apolitical, as I said, and had figured that the Rebel Flag, as he called it, would symbolise opposition, liberalism, protest and progressiveness.
Oh my.
Joerg
everytime we give it back, you nitwits burn it. So you can't have it anymore.
everytime we give it back, you nitwits burn it. So you can't have it anymore.
*
Give me that damnflag.
Fly the original!
Ever since Flag Day of 2002 I've been flying the Betsy Ross flag to differentiate myself from the “sunshine patriots” (as Thomas Paine would call them) who think that patriotism consists of slapping a 99-cent flag on their car and proclaiming “My president, right or wrong.”
To me, the Betsy Ross flag shows a loyalty to the original ideals of the founding fathers without making me look like another Lee Greenwood nitwit.
On impulse a few weeks ago I bought myself a shirt w/a sequin flag on it. I have worn it several times. One woman in the-evil-coffee-place-whose-name-shall-not-be-
spoken-aloud complimented me on it. I thanked her and said, without forethought: "Democrats can be jingoist too!" in a false-cheerful, hearty voice.
Well, the coffee guy laughed, anyway.
A bunch of of wild radical lefties with names like Washington, Madison Adams and Jefferson designed us. The ideas embodied in our political faith are militantly liberal ideals. That's why, even during the tragedies of Vietnam and Iraq, I always get a tear in my eye when I see Old Glory pass by in parade. On this Fourth I'm going to cheer for some pretty sound Rehnquist Court decisions and Mr. Michael Moore.
Not completely OT -
C-Span is currently re-showing a symposium on Hamilton. Most of the panel members are doing their best to recast him into a neocon.
The token AEI member dismissed admiration of Jefferson (Hamilton's chief philosophical rival) as a product of "book-writing intellectuals" and those who "hate free markets."
An NYU prof couldn't admit that Hamilton would view the current deficit with any dismay whatsoever because it would be "inadvisable to speculate" on it.
Naturally, Hamilton was also cast as an unabashed supporter of modern corporatism, even though in his view corporations were all created by the state or the states in order to advance the public good.
The neocon movement is so intellectually bankrupt that even their attempts at scholarly discussion have to be framed with lies, dissembling, and false mythology.
My favorite Woody Guthrie lyrics:
When the love of the poor shall one day turn to hate,
When the patience of the workers gives away;
"Would be better for you rich if you never had been born",
So they laid Jesus Christ in His grave.
This song was written in New York City,
Of rich man, preachers, and slaves;
Yes, if Jesus was to preach like He preached in Galillee,
They would lay Jesus Christ in His grave.
Happy Independence Day.
This is something that has bothered me for a long time. How in the world did the right manage to pick up the flag and start waving it? I've come to the conclusion that they picked it up because we on the left laid it down to wave the flags of our own individual causes.
Instead of waving the American flag and claiming American values to be the values we embrace, we instead decided to wave the flags of gay rights, the environment, women's rights, abortion rights, minority rights, etc. Now there's nothing wrong with any of those but what we've done is gone our own separate ways and demand all the attention be given to OUR cause. This created a division among our own ranks which weakened us considerably.
Meanwhile the right had one goal and that was to take control. The entire party marching in lockstep like Nazi stormtroopers repeating the same message over and over while we fought among ourselves.
If we want our flag back then we're going to have to take it back as one united front, and that means we're going to have to put down the flags of our own individual causes.
The right wingers didn't take our flag because they're not smart enough; we just gave it to them.
At Mass this morning in my church, we sang "America the Beautiful," and I teared up when we got to the end of the second verse: "Confirm thy soul in self control, thy liberty in law."
That's what I believe in; that's the foundation of my belief in this country: the rule of law, that we are a government of laws, not of men.
That's what I think of when I see the American flag; I think that's what my Irish grandparents saw when they got off the boat at the turn of the century in Ellis Island.
Crazy for the Red, White, and Blue!
My country right or wrong. Get it? No matter what fool is in the White House, my country right or wrong.
The quote "My country right or wrong; when right to be kept right, when wrong to be put right." comes from Carl Schurz.
"... Neither do I deny that this republic has a "mission"; and I am willing to accept, what we are frequently told, that this mission consists in "furthering the progress of civilization." But does this mean that wherever obstacles to the progress of civilization appear, this republic should at once step in to remove these obstacles by means of force, if friendly persuasion do not avail? Every sober-minded person will admit that under so tremendous a task any earthly power, however great, would soon break down. Moreover,those are not wrong who maintain that the nation which would assume the office of a general dispenser of justice and righteousness in the world, according to its own judgement, should be held to prove itself as a model of justice and righteousness in its own home concerns as well as in its dealings with others."
Sounds very fitting for the current situation? Well, these words were written in Sep. 1898 during the US-Spanish War. The writer was born in Liblar near Cologne, in a house a few minutes from where I sit and type:
I speak of Carl Schurz, former Secretary of the Interior, and one of the early leading figures of the Republican Party.
It is depressing.
Joerg
Actually, Joerg, there are a fair number of parallels between the Spanish-American War and the U.S.-Iraq war, including the American soldiers finding themselves fighting off a native insurgency in one of the countries they "liberated", and committing atrocities there. So Schurz is quite apropos.
A new friend told me yesterday that when she has been told "love it or leave it" her reply is "LIVE it or leave it." Granted, a little bumpersticker-y and confrontational, but I like the sentiment.
Veterans for Peace marched in my town's Independence Parade last night. It was good to see them there. I didn't know there was a branch out here.
Apache Snow:
How in the world did the right manage to pick up the flag and start waving it? I've come to the conclusion that they picked it up because we on the left laid it down to wave the flags of our own individual causes.
If, by "individual causes," you mean "flag-burning," then, yeah, I guess you're right.
Live it or live with it!
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