I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Yikes!! First!
When --Sept 11
Where Crawford Ranch
Why -- if I can't wear the flight suit I want to shoot Saddam's gun or Dick is off the ticket
It's not like Bush got a huge bounce out of the Saddam capture. Even if Osama Bin Laden were turned up in three weeks, there's still three more long months to the election.
Kerry and Edwards should come out now and say that any 'sudden' discovery of Bin Laden in time for the election should be held under suspicion as a political gesture.
They need to cut the head off this thing now!
They should inform the public how they think the administration's efforts to capture him in time for the election prove they were not giving the war on terror the priority it deserved.
I wonder how long we can put up with this fascist shit before we have no choice but to start a second american revolution?
MYOB'
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Yet another first post wasted by shit-for-brains posters.
MYOB'
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LOL! These kind of conspiracy theories always end up making the people who propagate them look stupid. Yes, I imagine Bush has been recently leaning on Pakistan to produce results, because they HAVE BEEN USELESS!! We are tired of it and whether it's Bush or Kerry in the White House, it's time to stop coddling them while they accomplish nothing.
Instead of developing and implementing policies that will help people and help our world, they are resorting to magic tricks--pulling rabbits out of hats.....
And now that Al Qaeda has completely metastasized thanks to Bush's insidiously bungled foreign policy debacles, it's not even going to matter if bin Laden is caught or not.
Sorry to be OT...but isn't anyone gonna say anything about the Dean-Nader debate? If you missed it you can listen here...
Dean Nader debate on NPR
We were going to end terrorism by invading Afghanistan and capturing bin Laden.
Didn't happen. Instead, al Qaeda went global (Indochina, Spain), and we decided (well, Bush decided) that the fight was in Iraq.
So we invaded Iraq, and faced insurgents "inspired by Saddam Hussein." We killed his sons, we captured him.
Now the "family" of Hussein, such as 2nd cousins, etc., are being blamed as "outside agitators," because the insurgents haven't gone away.
Except the new Iraqi gov't is talking about amnesty for most, and is returning Baath party members to power in order to restore government services.
I don't think anyone, anymore, is going to believe that capturing OBL or anyone else is going to "cut the head off the snake." Bush might get a "bounce," as he did with Reagan's death, or Kerry did when he picked Edwards.
But unless the capture is announced on Halloween, that "bounce" will fall faster than a souffle. And if it is announced that late in the cycle, will it have any effect?
Not very likely.
So TNR has inoculated us, by and large, from the story (Cokie, et al., will undoubtedly flog it breathlessly if it occurs). It's now a dead letter, as useless as the photo op with the "Mission Accomplished" banner.
Bush has screwed the pooch, and he can't unscrew it. Unless Kerry just makes a huge mistake between now and November, or Karl discovers an Eagleton-sized skeleton in Edwards' closet, this race is not going to be determined by a single event in the closing days.
Ten out of ten grownups will tell you that as long as some have grievances, you'll never completely end terrorism. The aim should therefore be to reduce those grievances--not make them worse which Bush and his wing nut enablers have done, spectacularly.
Great post, pie. And why would they want to ruin the Dem convention? Woudln't it be better to do it right before the election, instead of allowing people to get complacent again and forget?
Unless ... *screws tinfoil on* they're afraid the bounce Kerry/Edwards gets from the convention will be permanent, the same way once Dems started getting their names out there during the primaries people started to question the preznit.
A.
When Ralph Nadir gives back the Republican money has taken -then he can start talking about fair play
Not only should Dems fight to keep him off the ballot -he should be denied access to the debates as well.
It was his rhetoic with enabler FatHed Russert the Sunday before the 2000 election--Punkinhed let him ramble for 15 minutes about how there is no difference between Gore and Bush. Punkinhed is a Reeper and would do it again in a NY minute.
Just say no to Ralph and Go away
If the Chimpster throws his long pass,
Old bin Laden's ass will be grass.
When W throws down
On this tinhorn clown,
We'll find out who's passing the gas.
The surprise is going to be Powell as VP. See Kos on polling results with Powell as VP.
Jeffers, they could blow up the Democratic Convention in Boston with a nuclear weapon. If the Republicans do that, Viva la Revolucion!
Incognito--
But they don't have grievances! They hate us! They hate our freedom!
We're America! We never do anything wrong!
Don't you get it?
And the only way to respond it to smash 'em!
When did American foreign policy come to completely resemble a comic book? "Hulk smash!" is not an answer to crime, or terrorism, or any international problem. I'm telling you, this guy thinks he's hit the trifecta, and resurrected "The Evil Empire" in a new guise for the 21st century. America got along fine without an international enemy until 1945 or so. But being ahistorical, we now think that's why America was started: to be the superpower against Evil. This kind of blather and cocksureness was okay in the 19th century when we couldn't really threaten anyone, and had our own problems at home (settling the continent, fighting a civil war). But now, coupled with military superiority in this century, it is going to be our undoing.
If they can't get Pakistan or S.A. to give up their buddy bin Laden, look for something out of right field. Like Reagan dying to stir up the conservative myth... I guess that popped a little early.
Fidel Castro should watch what he smokes for the next couple of months.
Jeffers, they could blow up the Democratic Convention in Boston with a nuclear weapon.
Well, since Karl has probably already written off Massachusetts....
"Instead, al Qaeda went global (Indochina, Spain), and we decided (well, Bush decided) that the fight was in Iraq."
al Qaeda already *was* global before we invaded Iraq (also, not to be pedantic, but "Indochina" is probably the part of Southeast Asia where they have the least influence, if by that you mean Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos. The Cambodian gov't working with the Thais and the US did round up some suspicious characters hanging around Islamic schools last year, but I haven't heard anything about activity in Vietnam or Laos).
Anyway, I think a more accurate interpretation is that the US invasion of Iraq has made it far tougher for SE Asian Muslim countries' governments to cooperate with the US on policing radical Muslims w/o looking like stooges at best, religious traitors at worst, to their own citizens. JI and other hardcore al Qaeda partners are still targeted of course, because those groups also pose a threat to the governments of those countries themselves.
But a more consistent and probing policy towards radical Islam itself is problematic, partly because the US has declared war on Islam in the minds of so many Muslims (and they're not so out of order in thinking so ... walks like a Crusader, talks like a Crusader, etc.)
You would be interested to listen to the lecture given by Sarah Chayes at the Commonwealth Club during her last visit to the US 2 months ago. She is the former NPR reporter who left NPR to work on reconstruction in Afghanistan. At present she is director of a dairy cooperative in Kandahar. In her lecture she described that the Taliban figures are known to everyone to be in Quetta, everyone sees them frequently, and the US military stationed there is very frustrated with Pakistan because they allow them to live there and then cross the border to cause trouble.
You can see links to her lectures and writings at her website.
...the same way once Dems started getting their names out there during the primaries people started to question the preznit.
Good point! When people didn't have a choice they rallied around Bush. Understandable, I suppose.
But now, not only do they have a choice, Kerry/Edwards present themselves as a united, optimitic, intelligent team. Bush/Cheney just keep piling up more trouble and fearmongering.
It's not like Bush got a huge bounce out of the Saddam capture.
Actually, I think he did get a bounce.
He says voters aren't that stupid,
Oh, I don't know. About 50 million of them voted for Bush the first time. All you had to do was open your eyes to realize he was a complete incompetent.
No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.
Acckkk! What do fellow Plame enthusiasts think of the WaPo article claiming that the Senate Intelligence report contradicts many of Joe Wilson's claims about his wife's involvement and the substance of his report.
Acckkk! That article was written by Steno Sue. And who the eff cares what the reason was for outing Plame. They did it!! That's the problem, you moron.
These kind of conspiracy theories --
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
As long as they play-act like this is a real administration, they are home free with the loot, Lucille.
Well, the Wilson article's byline reads, "Susan Schmidt." This gives me pause. Nonetheless, Wilson needs to reappear and clear this matter up. The fact that the CIA analysts took a remembered inference by a former Niger prime minister as evidence of nefarious Iraqi plans is a clear statement it was hungry to prove the case.
And:
"According to the former Niger mining minister, Wilson told his CIA contacts, Iraq tried to buy 400 tons of uranium in 1998."
I'm no geologist, Ms. Schmidt, but I'd imagine that the Washington Post can afford for you to telephone one. "Yellowcake" is an ore, not an element. It's essentially a rock. Only a tiny fraction (0.007) is U-235, the fissile kind, and it can only be extracted mechanically. If the 400 tons of uranium supposedly in Benin is in a warehouse is U-235, we need to worry. A lot.
Well, I screwed that up. The quantity of stuff in Benin isn't noted. Nonetheless, I don't think that Niger can actual enrich the raw ore much beyond the yellowcaked stage. Whatever is in the Benin warehouse, it's still a rock, if it came from Niger.
I think Robert made a good point: the fact that this is out there, in the mainstream, for people to see and consider, innoculates us against any bounce. The instructions that the capture be around the time of the Democratic convention couldn't be more overtly political, and even the mainstream media aren't going to see it as a coincidence if it happens. Remember the high value target the Pakistanis had in their sights a couple of months ago who just magically slipped away? I wouldn't bet on their being able to deliver now, either.
But either way, it's not going to give Bush what he wants: a victory in November.
They must be getting desperate; I believe Rove was hoping to use some of the big guns later in the election season, and has to bring them out now to counteract surprising (to them) Democratic strengths and a sea change in the American psyche. That doesn't rule out something really terrible later in the year, but I think they're getting scared now.
Acckkk! What do fellow Plame enthusiasts think of the WaPo article claiming that the Senate Intelligence report contradicts many of Joe Wilson's claims about his wife's involvement and the substance of his report.
Nota - 12:13 pm
You're not misleading us are you?
Valerie Plame made the decision to send her husband to Nigeria rather than just suggest he be the one? The documents were not forgeries? There is new credible proof showing Iraq did indeed try to buy lightly enriched "yellowcake" uranium from Nigeria, rather than newly discovered scribbles on a cocktail napkin in Baghdad?
Hey Nota, you should see what "Steno" Sue says about Private Lynch. And it's all true, cause she never retracted it. Just like this scoop which runs counter to reality.
I've made this point before: I think Kerry's standard stump speech should include a line like "Even if Bin Ladin were captured or killed TOMORROW, this admininstration's foreign policy and national security policy have not made America as strong as it needs to be and in many cases have made us more vulnerable. Example, example, example."
So that when Bush does pull his surprise, Kerry can immediately and truthfully say "As I've said many, many times..."
If voters aren't that stupid, why is GWB allowed near the White House.
Ahck! My head hurts. I think the scariest part of the article is all the pressure BushCo is putting on Pakistan to turn over OBL by late July. This seems to imply that he could be found if a real effort was made. Strange.
I'm starting to think that for the US now to capture Osama in the Pakistani tribal lands would be the happiest accident imaginable. We have bupkis over there.
It would be far easier logistically for BushCo to concoct more lies and invade another country, if they're looking for a rally-round-the flag effect.
Powell as VP???!! Never happen, he's just waiting to get the hell out and retire as gracefully as he can. Surely he regrets getting roped into the neocon scam, and just isn't enough of an Uncle T to tie himself to Bush. Anyway, Bush needs a strong VP to tell him what to do--he and his handlers aren't going to suddenly let Powell occupy that position.
Just finished reading the report's section on Niger, pg. 36-83. I found the WaPo article through a link from Freeperville, where they are breaking out the champagne over the discrediting of Joe Wilson by the left-wing press.
If the Plame indictments come down, I think we'll see a lot more selective editing from this section included in the rebuttals from BushCo as part of the "fair and balanced" coverage. The Freepers, of course will feel completely vindicated.
Some of the most interesting parts of the reports are what is blacked out, including the entirety of one of the conclusions and all of the sub-para's of the others.
America got along fine without an international enemy until 1945 or so.
Well, RMJ, for the Roosevelt administration, Nazi Germany was an international enemy from 1939 or so on. And I would argue that the Cold War probably needed to be fought, if not necessarily as stupidly and wastefully as we did in practice.
But I take your larger point. When will we have adults back in charge of foreign policy?
It's mind-boggling how much this administration has screwed up our fight against al Quaeda. Afghanistan will again become a completely lawless hell that welcomes another Taliban, no matter whether bin laden is caught or not. Of course, what happens when Pakistan's government is toppled by Islamic fundamentalists, nukes at the ready? If god picked Bush to fight this fight, she must have completely lost all patience with us and wants this whole thing to end once and for all.
Ah, but Warren, we're not fighting a war on Al Qaeda, according to the Administration. We're fighting a War on Terror, which means that anyone we can call a "terrorist" or a "supporter of terrorists" is fair game as an enemy.
If we called it a War on Al Qaeda, we would have to admit that we have buggered it up from start to finish, that we have let ourselves lose sight of the ball, and that we have succeeded in strengthening our enemy, rather than weakening it.
So, naturally, it's a War on Terror. Incidentally, I was relieved that O'Connor, in the recent decision (I think it was Hamdi, but it might have been Rasul) made reference to the duration of the Afghanistan War, rather than the War on Terror, in saying that people could be held for the duration of the war. If she'd fallen for the War on Terror name, all those guys could have been held FOREVER.
Willie Mink -- of course, if there is a change in Bush's running mate, there's no reason that the power that is now held by the Veep couldn't switch to another postion -- say, the Chief of Staff.
This is only plausible if (1) Powell allows himself to be misled about the internal power balance twice and (2) Cheney's ego allows him to have an appointed office.
tinman, I'm not sure it's even about ego anymore for Cheney. Anyone other than Pres or VP working in the White House can be indicted. VP and Pres have to be impeached. Why would Cheney give up his strongest protection against the shit storm that's coming? And I'm not just talking about Plame, either; I think there's stuff about Halliburton that's going to bring him down. Right now he's got GOP majorities in House and Senate insulating him from criminal charges in this country.
Nora,
I agree with you that Cheney won't give up his two-house majority protection from criminal charges. Several people around here occassionally demand impeachment and, while it's certainly justified, it's just not going to happen with this Congress. Control of Congress matters, which is something for us to keep in mind now and two years from now.
Cheney's the power behind the throne and he's not going anywhere no matter who in the RNC wants him to go.
And, I've said it before, but Cheney's got stuff on GWB. He's got a file that would make that old spook Poppy salivate. Cheney's got a file and he knows how to use it and GWB is going to continue taking his every waking direction from Cheney even after (please Goddess) they get defeated in November.
I wouldn't be surprised if the administration called off the dogs at the request of the saudi government. Perhaps out of fear that should he be arrested, AQ would lose it's interest in America for now, thinking their greatest champion was lost, and concentrate on the one target they had every intention of eventually taking down, and knew they could, that being the Saudi Royal family.
There is also the chance they planned for his capture around this time all along, knowing that such an event would help the election.
There is also the chance that had OBL been caught/killed early a great many american would think the war on tera was essentially won, and would then be less fearful of the future enough to concentrate their election opinions on economic matters. OBL was their boogyman. As long as he was out there people would think we needed republicans to deal with him.
MYOB'
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Hecate, I've always thought that Bush was trying to surpass his father's accomplishments by maintaining just enough of his father's administration to make the comparisons, so that when he took Iraq and kicked Saddam out, he could say he was his father's better.
Worse yet was the assasination attempt on his father's life. Cheney being put in charge of the VP search should have aroused suspicions about what they(he) was searching for as VP credentials in a candidate?
I for one think he was looking for someone george, and he, could dominate to serve their will during the first term, second, and during that candidate's own obvious run for the Prez'. More than likely the top credential would be how likely they were to support the possible Iraq war, and letting the likes of Haliburton run the whole show. Not to mention the rest of the oil industry cabal.
MYOB'
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Buzzflash is suggesting McCain is possibly being considered for the VP. Cheney would hide in his spider hole and continue to pull strings.
Homepage has the article url.
ellroon, I believe McCain has said, in no uncertain terms, that he's not interested in being the VP, and there are very good reasons why Cheney isn't going to give it up, as Hecate and I have been discussing above.
I for one think he was looking for someone george, and he, could dominate to serve their will during the first term, second, and during that candidate's own obvious run for the Prez'.
Another criterion was to find a Bushie loyalist who could be counted on not to get in Jeb's way, should he want to run in '08.
"America got along fine without an international enemy until 1945 or so. But being ahistorical, we now think that's why America was started.."
Mr. Jeffers,
Saw Howard Zinn speak in Cambridge (MA) a couple of months ago, and this was very much the theme and thrust of his lecture. (And he is a combat veteran of WWII). I commend to you his essay-in-book form "Artists In The Times Of War"(Seven Stories Press) - a quick, absorbing read, and he makes his case with far more eloquence than I ever could..
And you don't know the meaning of "tinfoil hat" until you sit through the Q & A of anything politically-oriented in Cambridge.. Best free entertainment in town..
The problem is the American voters are that stupid.
Voters ARE that stupid.
Look at the popularity of Rush Limbaugh. Need I say more?
Look at the bounce in the polls for Bush after the capture of Sadam. Until the stupid voters realized that Howard Dean was right all along. We are not safer...
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