I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
haha
thanks
You stole that toy from Cheney, didn't you?
That's pretty funny, I just wish there were more words available. 302 is pretty small when you think about it.
OT: Check out Scott Ritter's story on Alternet:
"The strength of this anti-American resistance depends on how long the United States chooses to "stay the course" in Iraq. The calculus is quite simple: The sooner we bring our forces home, the weaker this movement will be. And, of course, the obverse is true: The longer we stay, the stronger and more enduring this by-product of Bush's elective war on Iraq will be.
There is no elegant solution to our Iraqi debacle. It is no longer a question of winning, but rather mitigating defeat. "
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/19190/
This is the third weekend for F911.
I thought it would impact on public perception - opinion of the administration, but no noticable change in polling numbers.
Success? Failure? Too soon to tell?
I don't know if it's ever been a question of "winning" because I don't know what "winning" means in this context. Did we "win" when we overthrew Saddam? Did we "win" when we captured Saddam? Did we "win" when we handed over "sovreignty"? What makes for "winning"? How do you know if you've "won" if you don't know what the goals are?
It's the same with the "war on Terror." I know we're losing the War Against Al Qaeda; we've thrown away lots of opportunities to make progress on that one. If it's possible to have a "war on terror", then I'd say we're not winning that one, either.
New Reagan tribute.
That's a nice toy!
It's to much like the actual process of operating Bush, though.
New Reagan tribute.
Jack posted these in another thread. pretty funny. I LOVE THESE:
"I am a War President" -- G.W. Bush
*
"I am a widower." -- O.J. Simpson
*
Here's my new one.
"I am an orphan." -- Erik Menendez
Spirit,
I was never expecting F 9/11 to acheive a sudden change in W's polling numbers anymore than I thought that The Passion of The Christ would suddenly convert people to Christianity.
However, I think the F 9/11 has been quite helpful in advancing the slow but sure change in public perception from that of W as a leader to that of W as a dangerous loon.
New Reagan tribute.
"What makes for "winning"? How do you know if you've "won" if you don't know what the goals are?
It's the same with the "war on Terror""
Nora,
That's why I get so scared when Condi says that we'll be at war until we've won the war on terror. This isn't the kind of war you ever "win." There isn't an official government that can surrender and then sign a peace treaty. It's a perfect recipe for keeping us scared and continuing to eradicate civil rights in the name of a "war" that will never end.
Great new column by Ted Rall:
'With the exception of hard-right zealots Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas, the high court's Republicans appear to be suffering from a major case of buyer's remorse. Six days after Bush's riot-torn inauguration in 2001, USA Today reported, "Sandra Day O'Connor has told people close to her that in her two decades on the court, she's never seen such anger over a case. O'Connor, more than any justice, has seemed disturbed by the public wrath directed at the court."'
http://www.uexpress.com/tedrall/
The Spirit of Howard Beale
Good question. San Francisco isn't any kind of barometer for the rest of the country, but it was sold out at the Meteron this Friday night.
There are a bunch of people who DIDN'T go to the movie yet because they hate the crowds. They will NOT go on opening weekend. These people will keep it strong for a while. It WILL hit 100 million, which is when Hollywood finally notices stuff big time and starts copying 'success'.
BTW go to www.boxofficemojo.com if you want to see latest figures for F911. It is now on 1725 screens in the US. Current domestic gross:
$72 million.
Mild: please put a NSFW tag before stuff like that?
I thought it would impact on public perception - opinion of the administration, but no noticable change in polling numbers.
I wonder it polls really can calculate the film's effect. Statistically, what are the odds that the people pollsters talk to have seen the movie?
The main political effect of the film may be to make the forces of evil feel like all the momentum is on our side, which it is.
ThrowingThings: sorry about that.
Firefox also seems to repost each time I refresh...
The picture (without Nancy's face) is from Yahoo news.
Looks like the ho' Times issued a correction to their "dog ate Chimpy's homework" story that I wrote to them about yesterday (reminding them the AP's suit was for the microfilm records in Austin, not Denver). Oh yes, did they issue a correction...on the side of the goddamned CHIMP!
(Slurp, slurp)
"An article yesterday about the destruction of some payroll records of National Guard members, including President Bush, misstated the record of White House acknowledgment of the loss. The White House indeed took note of the missing information last February when it released hundreds of pages of Mr. Bush's military files. In a briefing paper for reporters on Feb. 10, summarizing those files, it noted that payroll records for the third quarter of 1972 had been lost when they were transferred to microfiche."
http://tinyurl.com/2z6en
Tell me again why they got all upset about Monica when they do the same thing for Chimpy McFlightsuit every damned day???
(And now they're saying microFICHE? I thought it was microFILM? Get your story right, ho's!)
I have a question: who is this Christopher Andersen character who wrote "American Evita"? I just saw him on MSNBC reiterating the fabrication that the Clintons vandalized the White house on the way out (and, predictably, the MSNBC host just nodded blankly). It also has a claim on the jacket that Hilary left the WH with $400k of furniture (another scurrilous claim). Why isn't anyone calling this viciously dishonest jackass on this crap?
Will Bernie Sanders be alive on election day?
Reportedly, Bush and Rove have targeted Bernie Sanders as the congressional Democrat to defeat in November, as they did Paul Wellstone in 2002. We all know how that turned out . . .
http://bernie.house.gov/multimed...-7-8-
motion.ram
Of course, Bernie is an independent. Sorry for insulting him by calling him a Democrat.
Check out this great article on Wilson and Plame.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/
wp...er=emailarticle
Funny....
It seems the Bush admin has given up on winning re-election except by negative campaigning and "values" issues. They've kissed off the African-American vote by rejecting the NAACP's invitation, and now seem to be concentrating on miscellaneous attacks such as accusing Edwards of being a "trial lawyer" and "the fourth most liberal senator".
They sound desparate to me. Can these guys really hope to win with a campaign like that? Have they concluded that it's their only possible chance?
Patterson - Read this
I really love the argument that it might have been okay to out Valerie Plame if she had a role in Wilson's visit to Niger. Yo, guys, there is no "but we thought she was doing something political" exception in the statute. Try muddying the waters with the electorate, but no lawyer and no judge is going to fall for that bullshit. I would say that I can't believe the Republicans can be that obtuse, but, unfortunately, I can easily believe it.
Expect to hear that argument when the indictments come down. Treason by the 26th.
David, you're late to the party. We've already discussed it. I'm glad to see Josh is on it, too.
You poor thing.
Ralph, they are indeed desperate. Like untrained dogs whose dinner is taken away from them. So I'd be worried if I was Bernie Sanders or anyone rising in power in the Democratic party. Not of violence so much as of mud-smearing and lying and other mean low-life stuff.
Here is the info on the hack, Christopher Andersen, and I make that judgement based on the titles of his books.
http://tinyurl.com/3cfs5
http://tinyurl.com/29x8c
I thought it would impact on public perception - opinion of the administration, but no noticable change in polling numbers.
What I'm hoping--brighteyed Pollyanna that I am--is that F9/11's biggest benefit will be providing a new context for future actions of BushCo. In other words, it's not just that people will say, "The war was wrong" but that they'll be more skeptical from here on out. And I think there's pretty good evidence that it's had a depressing effect on Republicans...I'm hearing more and more anecdotes from acquaintances about Repubs and independents who are deciding to sit the election out, because they simply can't vote for Bush. The funny thing is, some of the people who say this HATE Michael Moore, and didn't like the movie overall, but were still affected by the classroom scene, or the part with Lila Lipscomb, or what have you. So they reject the movie overall, but their faith in Bush is shaken nonetheless.
"So I'd be worried if I was Bernie Sanders . . . Not of violence so much as of mud-smearing and lying and other mean low-life stuff."
Unfortunately, violence IS an option for these thugs, and apparently not always the last option.
Bullets: Kennedy, Kennedy, King . . .
Small Plane Crashes: Carnahan, Wellstone, Kennedy . . .
Anthrax: Daschle, Leahy . . .
David Jerehmiah Patterson,
I keep telling you not to go on the interenet. You are too stupid. Now log off and play with your toys.
Remember the movie Eyes Wide Shut, with the masquerade party / orgy?
Tell me you couldn't see Cheney as Master of Ceremonies.
What would Rumsfeld's role be?
Limbaugh's?
fyi, josh marshall has a nice takedown of steno sue's wapo hit piece on joe wilson.
Expect to hear that argument when the indictments come down. Treason by the 26th.
Nora
You bet ya', Nora!
TREASON BY THE 26TH!
BTW, Dave Patterson should listen to his mum.
Does anyone know anything about this:
Calls for International Monitoring of U.S. Elections Multiply
http://www.globalexchange.org/up...press/
2160.html
I've seen it a couple of times, but they never mention who in Congress.
Has anyone else noticed how intense and direct Josh Marshall has been since shortly before going on that vaction? He used to be somewhat vague about admistration misdeeds but now, more often than not, he just "They are fucking lying." and doesn't soften his criticisms.
Maybe it's related to the earthquake story, maybe not.
He seems to _know_ what happened, what's important, and who's lying. So far, he's perfectly on target but most of his posts read like they are footnotes or paragraphs clipped out of longer articles. He doesn't spend as much time explaining his arguments as he used to.
I think I like the new JM more than the old JM but I can't figure out what's crawled up his ass. Even if you set aside the mysterous big story, the overall thust of his recent posts only makes sense if you assume that his overall view of the administration has shifted into whatreallyhappened.com territory. His recent stuff implies large-scale conspiritorial doings by the administration--not the bumbling, fucked-up, misguided, semi-legal, SOP stuff that used to make up his view of the GOP.
It makes for an improved, more urgent TPM but I wonder where he's going with it? I can't think of any story that would result in such a large shift of viewpoint. Maybe he's just had enough and the time off gave him time to collect his thoughts and reload with larger RPG shells?
Has anyone else noticed how intense and direct Josh Marshall has been since shortly before going on that vaction? He used to be somewhat vague about admistration misdeeds but now, more often than not, he just "They are fucking lying." and doesn't soften his criticisms.
Maybe it's related to the earthquake story, maybe not.
He seems to _know_ what happened, what's important, and who's lying. So far, he's perfectly on target but most of his posts read like they are footnotes or paragraphs clipped out of longer articles. He doesn't spend as much time explaining his arguments as he used to.
I think I like the new JM more than the old JM but I can't figure out what's crawled up his ass. Even if you set aside the mysterous big story, the overall thust of his recent posts only makes sense if you assume that his overall view of the administration has shifted into whatreallyhappened.com territory. His recent stuff implies large-scale conspiritorial doings by the administration--not the bumbling, fucked-up, misguided, semi-legal, SOP stuff that used to make up his view of the GOP.
It makes for an improved, more urgent TPM but I wonder where he's going with it? I can't think of any story that would result in such a large shift of viewpoint. Maybe he's just had enough and the time off gave him time to collect his thoughts and reload with larger RPG shells?
yeah, where's the freakin earthquake, josh?
Sue Schmidt is at it again. Josh is on it and delivers the crushing blow at the end of his piece. This kind of journalism requires a response from her editors and from the Post Ombudsman.
Schmidt writes in her article:
"According to the former Niger mining minister, Wilson told his CIA contacts, Iraq tried to buy 400 tons of uranium in 1998."
Josh responds:
"I read the report's discussion of the whole Niger business. And I didn't see that reference. However, on page 44 there is a reference to Wilson reporting to the CIA that "an Iranian delegation was interested in purchasing 400 tons of yellowcake from Niger in 1998 [but that] no contract was ever signed with Iran." (emphasis added).
Perhaps I missed the reference that Schmidt is noting. But it seems awfully similar to the one the report notes about Iran -- same date, same tonnage. Presumably in this case, Schmidt innocently confused the two neighboring and similar-sounding countries, though it's a goof you'd think an editor would have caught."
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/
So, any ideas about the topic of the big story that Josh and Matt Yglesias were hinting at breaking soon?
I've been waiting / expecting some news since Josh has been back from vacation.
Nut job Glenn Beck, who hosted all the Clear Channel pro-war rallies, is having a daily melt-down about the film. It's been a beautiful thing listening to him and his callers--truly beautiful thing.
"Remember the movie Eyes Wide Shut, with the masquerade party / orgy?"
I think the more relevant film is an old comedy called "Guide for the Married Man." There's a scene where the wife comes home and finds her husband in bed with another woman. As the wife calls for a divorce and the like, the husband calmly gets up, sees his mistress off, makes the bed, etc. When all this is done, he then proceeds to deny that he'd been with another woman. Before long, the wife is questioning whether she'd really seen what she had just witnessed with her own eyes . . .
duty duty duty duty duty done
I'm waiting for Josh's tectonic shift story, too.
Mike, that Scott Ritter piece is a revelation.
He says that in 1996 Saddam sensed the Baath party could no longer keep all Iraq in line, went Islamic, infiltrated every tribal and Islamic group.
That's the reason for the widespread nature of the insurgency.
He couldn't have prepared his country better for occupation.
It's as if the Republicans armed every church and boy scout troop, softball league and junior chamber of commerce with IEDs and kalashnikovs and planted a few operatives in each to pass on orders.
As Barak told Cheney: you can't win an occupation. You can only choose the size of your humiliation.
Ritter thinks we may be there for a decade, with no change in bleed rate, if we don't wise up.
Great piece.
Yeah, I think that's when he responds, "Who are you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes?"
flatulus,
According to senior officials at TPM (o.k., I slipped his intern $50), the story that Josh is helping to break is that
Yeah, I think that's when he responds, "Who are you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes?"
Incognito
That's exactly what the film does to the right-wing.
Okay, am I gettin' stuffy here, or does anybody else get really tired of trying
to read 10-pt. type across the entire width of a monitor?
If TinyURL is too hard to figure out, much less learning how to embed links,
try putting the long URLs in the URL field, PLEASE. ...An open thread since
Holden's gonna be busy for awhile, and it's already as wide as the side of a barn.
Silleigh - not on my screen.
Mine either.
oops,
I gorked haloscan. Anyway,
According to senior officials at TPM (o.k., I slipped his intern $50), the story that Josh is helping to break is that Col. Mustard did it with
Remember the movie Eyes Wide Shut, with the masquerade party / orgy?
Tell me you couldn't see Cheney as Master of Ceremonies.
Now that's just gross.
On Josh, I'm suspecting they know about Plamegate and they're going to bust it wide open. Maybe they're waiting for the indictments before they publish. Whatever it is I hope people drop dead from heart attacks all over washington.
Sorry about screwing up the link embedding, but you guys can't even begin to believe what a thoroughbred does for fun on a Friday night.
Patience,patience.
When Josh said the story would break soon he was referring in terms of Geologic time.
Remember, plate tectonics happen REALLY slowly.
"Whatever it is I hope people drop dead from heart attacks all over washington."
fourlegsgood
That would be too easy on Cheney.
I think F/911 did a couple of good things, although it's hard to attribute poll numbers to any one thing.
First, it got the Regasm off the front page. (Noticed yesterday that flags are no longer at half-mast.)
Second, it put the freepers on the defensive. That's something we haven't seen for the past 12 years or so and, IMHO, a good thing.
Third, it allowed a lot of folks to realize that they're not the only one who thinks that Bush is an idiot. I've noticed that in a lot of workplaces, for example, it's the Dittoheads who dominate all the political discussions and that's certainly been the case vis a vis the media. So it's easy for liberals to begin to think that everyone else thinks the country is doing just fine. MM put an end to that, thereby energizing the base.
Fourth, I do believe that we're seeing the beginnings of a subtle shift in media coverage and that this is due, at least a little bit, to MM, who's made it clear that there's money to be made and audiences to be attracted by telling the truth about George Bush.
Finally, just the way that the right has reacted to it, even knowing that they're just giving MM free publicity, tells me that he's got to be doing something right.
On TPM
Jesus, we invaded the wrong country because somebody mistook an "n" for a "q".
Maybe my grandchildren will have a chapter in their history books about the "typo" war.
PS: Hope that my four kids will live long enough to have kids.
Kos (Daily Kos) has an interesting post, and a GREAT challenge:
"Meantime, I thought I might print the Beatitudes below, and allow Kossacks to provide their own examples of how the president's behaviors in office (not personally, but in office) contradict the principles espoused by the man he cites as his philosopher-savior-policy adviser.
THE EIGHT BEATITUDES OF JESUS
Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. [And our military will assist you in getting to heaven, expecially you Iraqis and Afghanis!]
Blessed are they who mourn, for they shall be comforted. [Fuck 'em. Keep the media away from Dover AFB.]
Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. [Thus the elimination of the Estate Tax]
Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied. [Fuck 'em, unless of course they convert to Christianity and becomes members of the SCLM and are hardcore Republicans]
Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy. [In the form of tax cuts]
Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see God. [We've sent a whole bunch of pure-at-hearts to see their "god" in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. You're welcome.]
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called children of God. [We have 500 lb. peacemakers, we have 1000 lb. peacemakers, we have a few 2000 peacemakers and we got some real cool peacemakers we can launch from our submarines and navy boats!]
Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Gospel of Matthew 5:3-10)" [See the Republican Platform, ESPECIALLY the Texas Republican Party Platform. We is goin' to heaven!]
My own responses to Kos' challenge are are included above!
Anybody else want to help Kos?
Cloned Poster - Sounds like a Buttle/Tuttle incident to me.
"Whatever it is I hope people drop dead from heart attacks all over washington."
fourlegsgood
That would be too easy on Cheney.
Toonscribe
Would it be torture to force-feed Cheney double cheeseburgers until he goes into cardiac arrest?
I haven't checked with Amnesty International, but I think they would have a problem with it. Damn humanitarians.
I can't wait for Bob Somerby to take a whack at Steno Sue! Marshall is great a what he does, but media criticism from Somerby is much more pungent.
And, by the way, wasn't MediaWhoresOnline supposed to be back in business?
MediaMatters.com is filling some of the void, but they aren't as humorous as the late, great MWO.
Smarty
I wanna see Cheney in chains -- and I'm not talkin' about a new B-movie at the drive-in.
Embedding a link is easy! It's NOT rocket science, it's just typing a FEW extra characters.
You type those few extra characters, and you can embed a 200-300 character URL and have the actual link as just one character. Heck, even a single period!
It's not hard! You have No Excuse Whatsoever for not embedding a link or for not using tinyurl.com.
See the web pages with easy-to-follow instructions I've set up at:
http://tinyurl.com/2bzyk,
or:
http://web.newsguy.com/christucker/tips.html
for details on how to embed a URL, use tinyurl.com or use the "URL" field above the comments box.
Unless you're too stupid to wipe the drool from your slack, rubbery lips.
ARE you too stupid to wipe the drool from your slack, rubbery lips?
If so, then go play over at free republic.com. You'll fit in perfectly there.
That would be too easy on Cheney.
Toonscribe
At this point I don't care if he suffers. I just want him to go away. I want the whole rotten crew to go away.
I want US put out of OUR misery. That would be enough for me.
Jennifer, Pie: David Patterson at 2:25 blew my Haloscan window out pretty wide.
Smarty, you didn't gork it, from anything I can see.
I just kinda marvel that anyone who's spent any length of time here would post
a URL of that length without bothering to shorten or mask it in some way that
wouldn't blow out the margins. Also,
I'm clearly a little on the bitchy side today. 
"I want US put out of OUR misery. That would be enough for me."
fourlegsgood
That's a good point. Survival of the country trumps revenge -- no matter how sweet.
Can we rename this blog "Holden" now?
Since it's and open thread, I'll post this bit of non-importance.
during the school year, at least this last one....I haven't had the opportunity to read all my newsweeks. I'm finally on November 12, 03. It's incredible.
Cheney on the front page..."How Dick Chenney Sold the War" (Headline)
Inside story: "Why he fell for bad intellegence and pitched it to the president."
Oh, and another unbecoming head-shot of a very angry hawk.
Sheesh. From Augus't "What's plan B?" Cover of a frustrated soldier in Iraq...to November of last year, this administration has been openly lying/ bumbling foreign policy. (well, more than that actually)
NPR / BBC were also reporting this. How can people be so effin' surprised by the senate report?
They really need to read or stop watching FOX or take their heads out of the friggin' hole in the ground.
You will never have to worry about haloscan margins if you right click "comments" and select open in new window. You'll also get the benefit of a status bar if you use that method.
You will never have to worry about haloscan margins if you right click
"comments" and select open in new window. You'll also get the benefit of
a status bar if you use that method.
I know, and the status bar IS helpful, but my particular dislike of margins
being blown out is that tiny type across the width of an entire screen
is hard to follow without your eyes jumping to the wrong line, which is
irritating if you're trying to scan a long thread quickly. Also, a wide
enough URL will still create an east-west scrolling bar, which is the WORST. But
I'm just griping, and will shut up now; no hijack intended.
Silleigh, David Patterson is a dumb troll who keeps drinking the kool-aid despite the fact that it's been poisoned.
I used to have a speech synthesizer for my Mac.
SimBush, for random GB41 speeches-from-soundbytes, on the fly.
Also available were SimJesse and SimPiglet (the piglet was easily the funniest)
Did Billmon open an affiliated "speak-easy" for the core Whiskey Bar patrons?
I don't mind not posting, but I would
like to read it if there is one.
I've read a few cryptic "you know where to go" type references to some mystery blog.
SimBush: check it out if you still have have Mac OS9
Pie, I thought so -- I was just trying to bitch even-handedly about THAT THING
I'M NOT GONNA BITCH ABOUT ANYMORE, and gripe about the, er, sin, not the
sinner. [If DP's the troll I'm thinking of, this post should probably have a lot
more "fucks" in it, right? 
]
Apropos of nothing, I just happened to stop by fark.com to see if there were any amusing photoshops and I came across a great one by someone who goes by the handle "orthogonal,"
his third entry down in this thread. (can't figure out a way to link directly to that image, and downthread s/he said s/he'd try to figure out a way to make a better-resolution version available but hasn't gotten back on that.
Anyhow, in part because of that ps a flamewar ensued, and I thought orthogonal came back with a succinct and helluva potent indictment of Bush re Abu Ghraib:
2004-07-10 11:14:44 AM orthogonal
2004-07-10 10:38:05 AM bolax blurts out orthogonal,
Because Bush really was responsible for the acts of 10-100 soldiers .. Because 10-100 soldiers really represent America.
Look, the point of the poster is that:
1. Bush was President
2. As President, Bush articulated certain ideals, ideals which I copied verbatim, without interpretation or editing, onto the poster
3. Those ideals were not lived up, indeed were purposefully disregarded and perverted, by our troops in Iraq. Pictures of those atrocities I also copied onto the poster, without editorial comment or any alteration beyond the obscuring of genitals of the victims.
4. On May 7, President Bush's Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld, under oath in the U.S. Senate said, referring to those pictures (unaltered, verbatim quote): "These events occurred on my watch. As secretary of defense, I am accountable for them and I take full responsibility."
5. It was later revealed that Rumsfeld's office had authorized tortures similar to those at Abu Ghraib, and lawyers in his office and at the Justice department had written legal justifications of similar tortures, and that the tortures were widespread and routine not just at Abu Ghraib, but also in Afghanistan and Guatanamo Bay.
6. On May 9, two days after Rumsfeld took "full responsibility", Vice President Deick Cheney called him "the best secretary of defense the United States has ever had."
7. On May 11, four days after to Rumsfeld took "full responsibility", President Bush publicly showed his support for Rumsfeld by saying (unaltered and verbatim): "Mr. Secretary, thank you for your hospitality, and thank you for your leadership. You are courageously leading our nation in the war against terror. You're doing a superb job. You are a strong Secretary of Defense, and our nation owes you a debt of gratitude."
In summary: Bush articulated ideas and told the world those were the ideals of America; those ideals were deliberately not upheld; Bush's Secretary of Defense "took responsibility" but did not offer to resign; Bush and his Vice President lavished praise on Rumsfeld immediately after that.
It's not the mere action of soldiers: it's the total lack of personal or institutional responsibility all the way up the chain of command, all the way to the Comm
cont'd
It's not the mere action of soldiers: it's the total lack of personal or institutional responsibility all the way up the chain of command, all the way to the Commander-in-Chief.
President Bush promised that these ideals were important, core American ideals, but when, under his watch, those ideals systematically were undermined, he has done nothing but praise those who failed America by doing or allowing the undermining.
So, yes, Bush is responsible. If President Bush wants to power and the prestige of the Presidency, he is responsible for what happens on his watch.
Isn't personal responsibility a Conservative value anymore?
clarification, the poster I'm referring to is in this thread with this timestamp:
2004-07-10 07:07:29 AM orthogonal
A GREAT conceptual posting at Daily Kos (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/4/14145/
52885)
"Kerry Chooses J. Christ as VP; Rove Responds
by sdf
Sun Jul 4th, 2004 at 14:14:05 EDT
A Bush administration spokesperson responded today to presumed Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry's surprise announcement of Jesus Christ, a carpenter from Nazareth, as his running mate:....."
This concept is funny. But much, much more importantly, it is very thought-provoking in light of today's political situation. Shows what real bullshit is put out by Republicans. But also shows how religion can be manipulated to achieve political aims - which is the real danger to mixing politics and religion. This is a great reminder of why we must have separation of church/state for this country to survive.
A MUST READ.
[If DP's the troll I'm thinking of, this post should probably have a lot more "fucks" in it, right?]
I don't know who that is. David is one of the few trolls who actually speaks intelligently, though he's sadly delusional.
Since this is an open thread, I have a question to pose to all. I want to write a letter to my mother who in the last election voted for George W. Bush.
I know now that she probably won't vote for him, rather she'll vote for Nader (though she has no idea what his positions are) or sit out the election.
In an effort to make a long story short, there are two reasons why she voted the way she did. One, she falls for fear politics, especially the meme that blacks and immigrants are taking jobs, though she cannot name a single job she applied for since she didn't apply at all. Two, she bought into the restoring dignity in the WhiteHouse line. She comes from a very conservative upbringing and somehow thinks to this day that getting a blowjob in office is a more serious offense than ruining the economy, or sending young men to a war based on lies.
But as Eminem might say in a more streetwise venacular, don't think I'm slagging of my mom for no reason.
Actually when I grew up, she was very liberal and broadminded. I want to appeal to that part of her. When I think about all the arguments I could summon, I envision a Tolstoy-length tome. So, here's the nub, what do I write without getting lost in the details or sullying my prose with anger and self-righteousness. Any suggestions?
How do I get her in the voting booth to chalk one up for Kerry in a swing state. Time is running out. I have four and a half months.
I don't know who that is. David is one of the few trolls who actually speaks intelligently, though he's sadly delusional.
That's kinda what I meant: Isn't he the one who occasionally fusses over the use of profanity here, or is that someone else? (Not that it really matters.)
That of course would be "off" and "vernacular." Typos are inadvertent metaphors for human imperfection.
there is an interesting article at the la times by mark mazzetti:
"Key Revisions Were Made to CIA Document: Prewar analysis of the threat went from hedged in private to blunt in public. Who made the changes is a mystery."
http://tinyurl.com/2dsb9
jellymister -
I tend to use some child psychology, in example with older people:
I sure am glad that GWB is saving us from those cheaper Canadian drugs. Them Canucks don't have any FDA like us, and they may send placebo's across the border. Anyway, our big Pharma need to make a profit because of all the money they spend on R&D. Older people need to quit complaining about the cost of their drugs and just suck it up.
Middle age people with kids:
That tax cut sure helped me, I get another $40 month. Who cares if every working American holds $40,000 in national debt. I mean really, who cares. Let the next generation worry about it, we deserve everything we can get after we have worked so hard.
Younger people:
That war on drugs is really working, we need stronger sentences for pot because pot makes kids do cocaine and heroin. And them gays, they don't deserve any rights because they are just not Christian.
It's funny to watch them immediately start attacking GWB and his policies without me saying a word. It really is a target rich environment when you think about it.
", she bought into the restoring dignity in the WhiteHouse line"
Jellymister,
You might remind her what our VP had to say recently.
Also, I'd try telling her that it doesn't bring dignity to the WH to send 18 year-olds off to die for no reason. It doesn't bring dignity to the WH to get all of our allies so angry with us that we'll be spending the next 12 years or so making amends. It doesn't bring dignity to the WH to lie and make mistakes and then refuse to apologize for the lies and to admit the mistakes. It doesn't bring dignity to the WH to freeze, get drunk, and then fly around the country all day while Washington, D.C. is being attacked and the Pentagon is in flames. Finally, it doesn't bring dignity to the WH to steal an election, to turn a national surplus into a deficit, or to degrade and destroy our environment.
Good luck!
holden;
thanks for your continued support on this, the second blogiversary (yes! talkleft coined that phrase!) of my humble blog.
thanks to your linking on atrios's site, as well as in his comments section, i almost made it to my stated goal of 500,000 visitors on the same day of my 2nd anniversary (missed it by less than 2,000).
i gave you specifically a nice big thank you-plug in my treacly blogiversary post here.
keep up the good work for atrios.
Hecate - Good points.
I have found confronting people head on with facts often turns into a debate with each side just digging in deeper.
So I have tried a different tact, in taking their viewpoint, multiply it times five, and throw it back at them. For example, anti-abortion people:
We should not only overturn Roe vs Wade like you say, but we should not allow abortions in the case of rape either because it is still killing an unborn child, right? And what about in-vitro fertilization, if life start with the zygote like you say, then all those eggs in a petri dish are baby's too, so we should outlaw in-vitro. Of course none of them want to outlaw in-vitro because they would not have their little niece, nephew, or trophy child heir. Strike at their cognitive dissonance. It makes them think without seeing you as the enemy.
Greg Palast has a great article out.
Under the racketeering law, RICO, even before a verdict, anything
bought with the proceeds of the crime goes into the public treasury.
But there seems to be special treatment afforded those who loaded up on
the 'bennies' of Ken Lay's crimes. If the G-men don't know where the
tainted loot is cached, try this address: 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
Ask for George or Dick.
Check it out.
chris/tx,
You make a good argument for the use of psychology! I'm not as good at it -- I blame law school. I'm always getting accused of "arguing like a lawyer" even outside of work. And people certainly don't always like it!
The only thing is that the example you give is one that I think some folks actually believe -- that every single sperm must become a human. They scare me! But I see your point.
"If the G-men don't know where the
tainted loot is cached, try this address: 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
Ask for George or Dick."
Questions for the debate:
Mr. Bush, will you commit right now to the American people that regardless of the outcome of this election you will not pardon your good friend Ken Lay or your vice president?
Mr. Bush, will you agree right now to donate to the United States treasury all the campaign donations that you have received over the years from Ken Lay?
Mr. Bush, would you be willing to testify under oath, without the Vice President by your side, concerning your administration's plans before 9/11 to invade Iraq?
Mr. Bush, will you state categorically right now whether you refused to take your flight physical because of drug use?
For the New York readers, if it wasn't mentioned in Atrios' "Outfoxed" post:
What does it portend for informed debate and democratic participation? Five leading writers will answer these questions and explore
issues presented in Greenwald's film. A reception will follow.
WHAT: Panel Discussion and Film Premiere
WHEN: Tuesday, July 13, 2004, Panel discussion: 5 - 6:15 p.m. Film premiere: 6:30 - 8:00 p.m.
WHERE: Tishman Auditorium, 66 W. 12th Street, New York, New York
WHO: Eric Alterman (What Liberal Media?), Arianna Huffington
(Fanatics and Fools), John Nichols (Our Media, Not Theirs), Nicholas Lemann (dean of the Columbia University School of Journalism) and Paul Starr (co-editor of The American Prospect and author of The Creation of the Media).
To RSVP to the panel discussion and film premier, call (212) 229-5808, ext. 101, or e-mail dover@newschool.edu to reserve seating. If you require special accommodations, please RSVP five days in advance.
jellymister, when you were growing up, did your mother say the usual Mother things ("If Johnny down the street jumped off the roof, would you jump off the roof?" "I don't care who started it, I want you to stop it", etc)? If so, maybe you could use those principles as the basis of your argument.
Don't all of us mothers try to get our kids to take responsibility for their actions? Breathes there a mother who's fallen for the lame excuses their kids give them for not doing what they're supposed to do? Is there any mother who wouldn't at least give lip service to the idea that lying is bad, that however bad the original deed, it's worse if you lie about it afterwards? (I know I say these things, and my mother said them to me, and her mother -- on and on)
Here's a President of the United States who's lied to us in really serious ways, who's made a complete mess of the country's reputation, who's caused thousands of American young men and women to be horribly injured and hundreds killed, who's killed tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis, in a war whose very bases were false, and he doesn't even admit that he's done anything wrong? Not only doesn't he apologize, but he won't even admit that he's done wrong; he just points the finger at someone else. We wouldn't tolerate this kind of behavior on a much smaller scale from our own children. Why should we encourage it in our President?
It's a start, right? Good luck.
Hey guys, Ken Mehlman here. I think this whole "Fundraiser-gate" thing really has legs and I've been working on a new speech about it. Feedback appreciated: (Oh, and David Patterson-- call me!)
John Kerry promised his supporters a humorous celebrity fundraiser. Instead, he has brought us humiliation in the eyes of the world.
He has promised a return to "values." Instead, he has devalued America's standing in world entertainment industry.
Humor? He decided not to humor America's sense of good taste and decorum or what Jefferson described as "a decent respect for the opinion of mankind." He did not humor the advice, experience and judgment of those who questioned having Whoopi Goldberg and Chevy Chase on the same bill. And now he will not humor the American public by permitting any video of this vile Hate Fest to be released.
How did we get from a time when Hollywood had the good will and empathy of all the world -- when a leading French newspaper ran a giant headline with the words "Vive Jerry Lewis" -- to the horror that we all felt in witnessing the reports of the celebrity performances the other night at Radio City Music Hall.
How DARE the incompetent and willful performers at this Kerry/Edwards fundraiser humiliate our nation and our people in the eyes of the world and in the conscience of our own people! How DARE they drag the GOOD NAME of PRESIDENT BUSH through the MUD of one of NEW YORK CITY'S PERFORMANCE VENUES!!
I believe we have a duty to hold Senator Kerry accountable - and I believe we will.
Yawn. Move your comment to the next thread or the last few threads. Bush is being skewered and rightly so.
The boy-king is toast.
Mehlman, sarcasm tags might help.
OK...did Chimp on the radio today actually call marriage "a union between a WHITE man and a WHITE woman" as I just read over at AmericaBlog? Is he THAT stupid, or is Aravosis (sp?) pulling the collective leg a bit? It doesn't say that on Whitehouse.gov's transcript, but that means nothing.
No one else is saying anything, so I imagine it is a joke.
OK...did Chimp on the radio today actually call marriage "a union between a WHITE man and a WHITE woman" as I just read over at AmericaBlog?
Probably not.
But the differences between current arguments of marriage opponents, and those made by marriage opponents decades ago, are nearly nonexistent.
CNBC at 10 p.m. EDT tonight: Tim Russert with Mario Cuomo. Just saw the program and Cuomo is wonderful in a wide-ranging conversation.
Highly reccommended.
Here's the transcript. Didn't see the mentioned comment about marriage being between a white man and woman. Just the usual 21st century hate speech.
transcript
We'll all laugh about this in the future. :-(
You'll laugh. We'll make pilgrimages to shit on his grave and the resting place of the beautiful mind of his harpy mother.
"Yawn. Move your comment to the next thread or the last few threads. Bush is being skewered and rightly so.The boy-king is toast."
You thought that was a pro-Bush post??
"Mehlman, sarcasm tags might help."
You're tellin' me!
Why is the gay marriage and abortion rights even pressed right now? All it does is energize the radical right and takes away room to bash shrub. Lets get him out then I think things will go much better for these issues. Cart WAY before the horse IMHO. Correct me if I'm wrong, one can still get an abortion and Gay people can have any sort of cerimony they want without cops busting in and arresting them??? But kids (American and Iraqis) are being killed right and left in Iraq for nothing? Is this still the case?
K&Y I promise, I won't be laughing any more about it than one would over the other civil rights issues.
I'll increase my fiber and join you.
Kennyboy -
I thought your post was really funny and I got that you were joking.
Of course, I wasn't 100% sure until this:
"How DARE they drag the GOOD NAME of PRESIDENT BUSH through the MUD of one of NEW YORK CITY'S PERFORMANCE VENUES!!"
then i felt relief and laughed out loud.
*
By scaring the left with fears of their limited rights being eroded further won't energize the left, those people are the ones who vote all the time anyway.
Ok, this made me laugh. Out loud. From a NYTimes article http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/11/politics/
11sex.html about the (not funny) interference of conservatives in health and human sexuality research comes this gem:
The spending had been vigorously opposed by the Traditional Values Coalition, a group that represents churches primarily. Andrea Lafferty, executive director of the coalition, said her group's intention was to challenge research grants that "don't pass the straight-face test."
"There's an arrogance in the scientific community that they know better than the average American," Ms. Lafferty said.
Imagine the hubris of the "scientific community" (having wasted all that time and money pursuing advanced degrees and devoting their careers to research) thinking they are somehow better informed about their own research than the average (God-fearing) member of the public!
It brings to mind one of my favorite bumper stickers: "Back off man, I'm a scientist!"
Jenny FTB,
Thank God. Much appreciated.
BTW, your nom-de-blog made me laugh out loud the first time I saw it.
Hey, Church lady...
Is that originally from Bill Murray in Ghostbusters?
Kennyboy -
You're welcome. Keep writing the funny stuff and make us work a bit for it!
*
"Back off man, I'm a scientist!"
Is that originally from Bill Murray in Ghostbusters? Yossarian
Why yes, I believe it is. I've always been partial to one of Dr. Venkman's other notable lines: "Yes, it's true. This man has no dick." I tend to think of it everytime someone declares himself a War President, challenges people who want to kill our soldiers to "bring it on," or acts out his Top Gun fantasies (don't get me started on the homoerotic subtext in that film...) under a 'spontaneous' Mission Accomplished banner.
BTW Yossarian - what are you doing here? Help him! Help the bombardier!
I've been chasing a certain secretary.
Milo keeps fucking w/my plans.
The local NBC channel in Winston-Salem, NC carried the Kerry-Edwards rally live today. 5K to 10K were expected, 25K showed up.
The faux channel had a shot that made it look like about 200 people. Local CBS showed shot from behind the stage, looked like a cheering mob.
Edwards can really work a crowd. He is good. Kerry used crib notes, JE ad-libbed the whole speech.
'vive Jerry Lewis'? maybe Osama is right.
Sailbad - Thanks for the on-the-scene reporting. It's really interesting to hear about these events. Wonder when they'll make it to Southern CA? Probably not a priority, given more urgent states to visit.
BTW - Fox News is so disgusting and you just confirmed it. Can't wait to catch a screening of Outfoxed. It should be a hoot. Of course, they're threatening some big retaliation but I say, bring. it. on.
*
Tell me you couldn't see Cheney as Master of Ceremonies.
Ah, the Vice President of the United States of America!
Click
here
Please have your sound on before you click. Wait for the image of the vice president to appear, then click play
Milo keeps fucking w/my plans.
Yossarian
Just find someone to buy his chocolate-covered Egyptian cotton, then he'll leave you alone.
Now that the mainstreamers are off disecting "real" news, we could use this spot for far left tin foil stuff anyone game?
"The Al-Zarqawi myth continues to be propagated by the US military and fueled by a dutiful mainstream media while every action of blatant aggression against Iraqis who have a legitimate right to defend their land and property from American pillage is blamed on this non existent “terrorist” al-Zarqawi. As was reported at the time, al-Zarqawi was killed in a bombing raid in 2002."
I think most ppl know this but are glad to go along with the lie.
They can't handle the truth. 
don't know the person. still cool.
http://tinyurl.com/2n37s
That dadgum liberal media...
2 News Headlines from the AP today:
"Kerry, Edwards Show Public Affection"
Hugging, kissing and squeezing has become a part of every event since Kerry and Edwards set off on the campaign trail with their wives, Teresa Heinz Kerry and Elizabeth Edwards, for the first time together Wednesday.
It doesn't matter if Kerry is introducing Edwards, or vice versa, the scene is always the same, the lovefest playing out at rallies in Ohio, Florida, West Virginia, New Mexico and New York.
With a toothy smile, the North Carolina senator opens his arms wide and wraps an equally sunny Kerry in a bear hug. The two clap each other sometimes once, often twice, on the back with both hands. Pulling apart, they each drape an arm around each other. Kerry waves with his free hand, and Edwards pumps his fist in the air, thumb up. Sometimes the two tilt their heads together to make inaudible comments.
Often described as aloof, wooden and emotionally detached, Kerry now appears much more relaxed and affectionate, his style more closely resembling his younger Senate colleague.
[...]
And both men have covered their wives - and each other's wives - with kisses and hugs. At an outdoor rally in Beckley, W.Va., Heinz Kerry introduced Edwards, saying: ``We have two 'Johnnys Be Good' here. John, without much ado.'' Edwards walked up and kissed her cheek.
Later in Albuquerque, Kerry returned the favor, leaning in and giving Edwards' wife a peck after she offered words of praise for Heinz Kerry.
----------------
Shorter AP:
Dems = fags.
---------------------------
"Edwards Made $27M in 4 Years Before Senate"
Edwards grew up in a small North Carolina town as the son of a textile mill worker. He built a fortune as a personal injury lawyer and is one of the richest senators.
His selection on Tuesday as Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry's vice presidential running mate drew new attention to Edwards' wealth. Both candidates are multimillionaires; Edwards' wealth was self-made while Kerry achieved his largely through marriage.
---------------------
Shorter AP:
Wealth from marriage or being a trial lawyer /= being heir to a family of pro-fascist oil, railroad, and steel trillionaires or CEOs of defense contractors that have climbed their way up on ladders of no-bid contracts.
--The Thick White Duke
Houston, TEXAS
ps. The flood of stories and pix of Kerry & Edwards hugging & such are brought to you by the same douchebags who flooded the market with stories of Gore being advised to wear earthtones back during the 2000 campaign.
Yeah, that's much creepier than choking on a pretzel & passing out.
Friends. Have you considered the great injustice done to us farmers by the decline of the true, tall poll, strain of green arrow peas? Years ago I used to be able to pick four bushels of peas witout having to get on my knees once. And that was when I was a younger man.
Today my tallest vines don't reach five feet and I have to pick on my hands and knees.
This terrible state of affairs is due to market research done for seed companies which has concluded that people would rather grow bush peas (don't get me started on beans) than be bothered with trellis or polls. I strongly suspect that this research was done by phone and during daylight hours. The idiocy of this is that those of us who sell peas for a living are out in the field picking peas during daylight and are unavailable to answer the phone. Thus the sample is obviously defective.
This is the whole trouble with modern polling. That our corporate media has decided to feature polling (cheap) in order to cut back on actual reporting (not cheap) only magnifies the problem.
Isn't it time we all stopped making believe that telephone polls are reliable?
Thank you for your time. Now, I've got to go take a hot bath.
OT (Open Thread) OT (On Thread ) OT (Off Thread)
From Juan Cole on the gutting of Voice of America
This gutting of intelligent US debate and self-presentation to the rest of the world is being spear-headed by the Broadcasting Board of Governors and especially by Norman Pattiz. They have already destroyed the Arabic service of the Voice of America, which was among the best radio programming in that language. They have replaced it with Radio Sawwa, which mainly broadcasts Britney Spears and Umm Kulthum to Arab audiences, along with at tiny bit of news and interviews. Most important Arab countries are not even letting it be broadcast (it only is received on FM frequencies). It has a fair listernership among teeny boppers in Jordan, e.g. But that is not a fair trade for the movers and shakers who used to listen to the Voice of America. The BBG would like to axe the Urdu and Persian services of the Voice of America, as well
Britney Spears ! No wonder they dislike us.
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