I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Love Lance, hate Bush. not everything from Texas is evil.
Yeah. And ther's Tena. And Molly Ivins. And chili.
Armstrong is one of the most popular athletes in France...
*somewhere a wingnut's head explodes*
I'm here to tell you, us Austinites are celebrating this, big time. Quite amazing.
And Lance is respectful of France. He recognizes that competing in France has made his career, and has often said that he loves the French people and that France is his favorite country after his own.
A great cultural ambassador for the US in the world.
Compare and contrast with Chimpy and his xenophobic, aggressively bigoted jingoistic enablers.
When we get rid of this maladministration we are going to need all the Lance Armstrongs we can get to repair America's image in the world.
yes he does.
That's quite an athletic feat. I thought I'd read that many French cycling fans don't like Armstrong because they believe that he has used performance-enhancing drugs during his career. Am I misremembering that?
Also, think I read somewhere that Armstrong is a big fan of the boy king. Wonder how that works with his very liberal lover, whatshername, the pop singer.
Not to mention that he lives in Spain with Sheryl Crow. If only I were good at anything...
monica--No, you aren't. On BBC news yesterday, when they reported on Lance, they interviewed a couple of French folk who again expressed their belief that he's using drugs, though he tests clean every time.
Sheryl Crow
That's it.
Don't know if he's a fan of Bush, but he's an "advisor" on cancer for Bush.
Also, he learned enough French to do interviews in that evil tongue.
His sixth straight Tour de France victory, and probably the most impressive. He's really proven he is the best. More impressive to me has been the Posties, Team U.S. Postal service. Nicknamed the Blue Train, they have worked like a machine delivering Lance to the finish line each day.
Who was the commentator on Faux News who faulted John Kerry for going home to watch the Tour de France on TV? I wonder if the commentator will feel the same tomorrow.
If the Dems were smart, they would all be wearing the yellow LiveStrong bands on their wrists from now on. Lance is living proof that there is always hope against cancer. It brings tears to my eyes everytime I see him ride (and it's been hell getting up at 4:00 am every morning to watch Le Tour!).
Sheryl Crow
That's it.
monica_nyc
What's the story there?
Wasn't he married until recently?
Not to be gossipy or anything.....
The Times better front-page this, or else Ann Coulter will be going on about how they hate America, just like they did when they refused to recognize Dale Earnhardt's death. Except that they didn't, of course. But hey, being a Scaife-Mellon-Moon 'ho means never having to fact check that shit. Kiss it, Keller.
Richard Linklater is also someone cool to come out of Texas.
"they believe that he has used performance-enhancing drugs..."
I believe they are called Chemo
And don't forget Jim Hightower...
Now if only some of the stupid spectators COULD GET OFF THE FUCKING ROAD!!!???
Janis Joplin and Willy Nelson are also Texans.
Married, divorced, utterly dedicated father. Might not be the most likeable person on the planet but utterly dedicated to his children and, like few other people on earth, can teach them about success in life.
Ragdrazi, you mean those stupid spectators that spit on Lance and flipped him the bird? I saw a pic of that. Kinda pissed me off. As a testament to Lance's charcter, though, he used their abuse to fuel his determination to win.
Horace Bixby has all the answers you need:
Insufferable Homesteaders-Masquerading-as-Statesmen have long enjoyed at taxpayer expense. And this goes double for the lick spit handlers and other attending political riff-raff ,who, because of political perk and privilege, have no health insurance worries.
http://www.horacebixby.com
*hic* been celebrating his stage win since noon. i have not found any yellow bands here in austin this past week.*hic*
cheers!
oh...more good texans to add to the above list: john henry faulk,willie...
Lance's accomplishments in the tour are nothing short of astounding, his is a story that 70 billion monkey with typewriters could never have come up with. I personally was devestated when he climbed off the bike during the '96 tour, and later that year when he announced that he had cancer.
He actually had treatment 50 miles up the road in Indianapolis, and I got to watch him race in '93, '94' and '96 when I worked on the finish line crew at the Tour du Pont. I got to hang out inside the barriers and mingle with the riders at the award ceremonies-was cool as hell, especially for a cycling fanatic and former racer as myself.
"Now if only some of the stupid spectators COULD GET OFF THE FUCKING ROAD!!!???"
Ragdrazi
I understand your sentiment to a degree Ragdrazi, but that's part of cyclings intimate charm, At what other professional sport besides super expensive ring side or courtside seats, can you get as close and personal with the athletes-and for the price of getting there early. Yes occasionally idiots get in the way, but in a way for the riders it has to be an amazing exchange of energy that you only experience on stage within feet of a really enthusiastic croud when your band is rocking the house.
Congrats lance you have finally entered the pantheon, one of the 5 greatest bike racers in the history of the sport.
Yeah, go Lance! (even if he does support the chimp-king)
Is this another Friday atrocity slipped in: "The Bush administration has been going to court to block lawsuits by consumers who say they have been injured by prescription drugs and medical devices."
http://tinyurl.com/45pth
Lance's political views, as he states on his web-site, are "center-left". He likes Bush as a person, and has never been critical of him publically, but believe me Sheryl Crow and Lance's views are alot closer to mainstream dems than Sir Shrub's ...
Ahem ... small correction to the headline, Lance Rock. Remember, he has singular, not plural
EPO
Indeed, Lance was against the invasion of Iraq and has said so in an interview with his fan club.
Oh, and Roscoe, suck it, eh?
...The Bush administration has been going to court to block lawsuits...
Another four years, Mr Nader?
Who's Lance?
I found it fascinating that the man who spoiled Miguel Indurain's run at the 6-time title trained the man who gave Armstrong the most challenges this year, Basso.
It's a bit of classical drama.
There's an odd see-saw relationship between Lance and the French. Last year, in particular, when he was pushed every step of the way, there was a warming towards him; this year, things are a little bit cooler, because he threatened a record jointly held (among others) by two legends of French cycling: Jacques Anquetil and Bernard Hinault.
But Lance has always shown the utmost respect for the Tour de France. He builds his season around it. He doesn't race most of the Spring Classics or the other grands tours. (Which means he'll never live up to Eddy Merckx, but who could ever?) He talks about the great mountains of the Tour in the awed tones of a French cyclist. And this year, he's ridden like Hinault or Merckx. No cadeaux for the rest of the pack.
The French attitude towards cyclists who dope is another thing, too. Richard Virenque was disgraced but remains a sentimental favourite; Lance has never failed a test (and believe me, US Postal receives more 'random' test visits than any other team) but still gets subject to insinuation.
If anything's nagged me this year, it's been the product endorsements: Subaru, PowerBar, Dasani, Nike, and many many more. Of course, if it were a choice between shilling product and training on a regular cyclist's budget, I know which one I'd pick.
Oh, and bloody Sheryl Crow too. Hanger-on to the stars.
As for Lance's politics, there's an interesting piece written by Alistair Campbell, Blair's infamous press secretary, here:
Once we settle down to talk at a long wooden table, we are swapping stories about George W. Bush, his fellow Texan. We agree that our politics are different to Bush's, but that the President is smarter, funnier and more likeable than the caricature. Even Sheryl, whose politics Armstrong describes as "way out Left", says that it's hard to meet Bush and not like him. I had assumed, because he and Bush were Texans and I'd seen pictures of them laughing and joking in the Oval Office, that Armstrong was a Republican. But he says his politics are "middle to Left". He is "against mixing up State and Church, not keen on guns, pro women's right to choose". And very anti war in Iraq.
So the "summit" has begun and here I am, thinking that I'd be getting hours of top-quality insight for my triathlon training, and, instead, it's like I am back in my old job, defending military action, defending the Bush-Blair relationship, insisting we did the right thing and saying, long term, it will make the world a safer place. But Armstrong is screwing up his face and he won't have it. "I don't like what the war has done to our country, to our economy," he says. "My kids will be paying for this war for some time to come. George Bush is a friend of mine and just as I say it to you, I'd say to him, 'Mr President, I'm not sure this war was such a good idea', and the good thing about him is he co
Bah:
Once we settle down to talk at a long wooden table, we are swapping stories about George W. Bush, his fellow Texan. We agree that our politics are different to Bush's, but that the President is smarter, funnier and more likeable than the caricature. Even Sheryl, whose politics Armstrong describes as "way out Left", says that it's hard to meet Bush and not like him. I had assumed, because he and Bush were Texans and I'd seen pictures of them laughing and joking in the Oval Office, that Armstrong was a Republican. But he says his politics are "middle to Left". He is "against mixing up State and Church, not keen on guns, pro women's right to choose". And very anti war in Iraq.
So the "summit" has begun and here I am, thinking that I'd be getting hours of top-quality insight for my triathlon training, and, instead, it's like I am back in my old job, defending military action, defending the Bush-Blair relationship, insisting we did the right thing and saying, long term, it will make the world a safer place. But Armstrong is screwing up his face and he won't have it. "I don't like what the war has done to our country, to our economy," he says. "My kids will be paying for this war for some time to come. George Bush is a friend of mine and just as I say it to you, I'd say to him, 'Mr President, I'm not sure this war was such a good idea', and the good thing about him is he could take that."
He mocks my line that you have to "give it time" before those weapons of mass destruction show up. "You know when they caught Saddam and the doctors were rooting through his beard and Sheryl said to me, 'Why are they doing that?' and I said, 'They're looking for them weapons'. Come on, man." He laughs and shakes his head and I know I'm not going to persuade him. "What's Blair like?" he asks. "He a good guy?" I say he is. "Yeah, looks a good guy."
Read the whole damn thing, if you pardon the Instaspeak.
(When Campbell isn't being a sinister media manipulator, he raises money for leukaemia charities. Hence the synergies.)
lance is not a slacker.
Let's get one thing straight: Armsrong has said that Bush is a likeable guy when you meet him in person, nothing more.
Here is a quote from recent interview:
"he says his politics are 'middle to Left'. He is "against mixing up State and Church, not keen on guns, pro women's right to choose'. And very anti war in Iraq." In other words, he's not as left as Sheryl Crow (gotta love 'er) but he's hardly a Bush-lover.
OK?
My brother is a cyclist and runner, and I can always remember him being awestruck by Lance's performances. My brother is also a Repub., and now that Lance is divorced and dating a known lefty, he has lost his respect for Lance, even commenting to me how Lance has always been able to hide his doping. The focus of Repukes always astounds me; they will stay on message no matter what. Sheesh.
I believe Lance has simply been toying with the mere mortals on the tour (e.g., when he decided at the last moment to sprint and win the 17th stage that he was originally planning to concede). Even without the Liftime Movie of the Week story of his life before his first Tour victory, he is awe-inspiring, and this year's performance has been absolutely stunning.
PS--thanks for the plug, pie!
Lance has adopted Austin, but he is from Plano, TX. Best way to describe Plano is to picture Tom DeLay's district in TX on steroids.
Plano officials were asked about holding a parade for Lance, and they said "he probably would not come" (from article in Houston Chronicle sports this past week). Long story short, Lance has distanced himself from the group think found in some of the stepford suburbia's of TX.
The wingnut Mrs smalfish came home earlier today and proclaimed it to be the "Tour de Lance"
I had to winder where she heard that,but did'nt want to incite another riot in the house over some stupid comment from the far right.
The wingnut Mrs smalfish came home earlier today and proclaimed it to be the "Tour de Lance"
I had to wonder where she heard that,but did'nt want to incite another riot in the house over some stupid comment from the far right.
Oh, George W. Bush is me, don't know how that got there...
"Lance is divorced and dating a known lefty, he has lost his respect for Lance, even commenting to me how Lance has always been able to hide his doping."
dumass librual
Wow I feel your pain. Some people are irretrievable. Sounds like the civil war, so many of these stories that pop up on various threads. Brother v Brother, someone an a thread saying that her parents had asked her to cancel the visit because while she could agree to shut the politics out of the equation, they couldn't agree to keep the preaching out of the equation. Damn sad.
"I love lance, now hes a doper, divorcee, thus agin my values, so I git to cast stones- what was that thing that jesus said about stoning.....Oh yeah-have at it".
Lance may or may not be using performence enhancing drugs, don't know and I come from that ridiculous school called innocent until...
Sorry dl, but for the grace...my famdam votes dem.
take care dude.
Lance is a role model for Democrats.
Give no quarter; punish your enemies:
1. In one stage he came up at the last second to pass Kloden, just for the pride (and the 20 second bonus). On the platform, he repeated a French mentor's mantra -- "no gifts."
2. In the 18th stage, he saw Simeoni, a guy who's suing him, trying to lead the pack. Since all the leaders were hanging back, Lance had no need to charge ahead, but he did, just to screw Simeoni.
Something tells me Kerry has more than a little of Lance in him.
I believe Lance has simply been toying with the mere mortals on the tour (e.g., when he decided at the last moment to sprint and win the 17th stage that he was originally planning to concede). Even without the Liftime Movie of the Week story of his life before his first Tour victory, he is awe-inspiring, and this year's performance has been absolutely stunning.
Lance is indeed mortal. Eddy Merckx OTOH....
"my famdam votes dem"
Oh shit I just realized that we all live in the wrong states......Damn.
OT
AnneW: "The Bush administration has been going to court to block lawsuits by consumers who say they have been injured by prescription drugs and medical devices."
Now who could ever be injured by perscription drugs...
"The maker of a popular medicine for schizophrenia has notified doctors that it minimized potentially fatal safety risks and made misleading claims about the drug in promotional materials."
http://tinyurl.com/43ez9
More impressive to me has been the Posties, Team U.S. Postal service.
Word. If you took a Celtics team from the Auerbach years, during the Bill Russell era, and put them on bicycles, you'd basically get le train bleu.
And Hincapie is the Anti-George.
Yeah. And ther's Tena. And Molly Ivins. And chili.
Molly, NYC
Catherine Ann Porter, Barbar Jordan, Jack Teagarden. If it wasn't way past bedtime I'd come up with more.
Catherine Ann Porter, Barbar Jordan, Jack Teagarden.
Walter Cronkite, Dan Rather, and chicken fried steaks.
Word. If you took a Celtics team from the Auerbach years, during the Bill Russell era, and put them on bicycles, you'd basically get le train bleu.
All of the Posties have the individual ability to finish in the top 10-15.
Lance is a role model for Democrats.
Give no quarter; punish your enemies
Exactly.
Gozer - Lance is riding for Discovery Channel next year, right?
Gozer - Lance is riding for Discovery Channel next year, right?
yes, but may choose the giro or vuelta oner the tour.
As someone who has raced bicycles in the past (in the 70's), I can relate to Lance's achievements. I'm not saying that other people can't, but I certainly got a taste of the enormous physical effort required to win one bike race, let alone the Tour de France.
I've also known many people through my life who have had cancer - some have died. Brain cancer is particularly ugly. And now I have cancer, too, for which I will undergo surgery in three weeks. Anyone who has not gone through such an experience cannot possibly understand how phenomenal Lance's recovery from cancer, and his subsequent success in cycling has been.
The last commenter mentioned his brother, who lost respect for Lance simply because of a possible left wing drift. Such an attitude is bankrupt - if Lance were a right wing nut, I would still respect his achievements on the bicycle, since I know how much hard work was required to get to this point. Belittling people because of their political comments or beliefs without taking into account the rest of their being is a giant step into fascism...or at least eliminating the possibility of understanding each other through discourse.
Finally, Texan or not, Lance is The Boss! Long live The Boss!! ;-}>
jb
Can someone explain to me why the US Postal Service needs to be sponsoring a cycling team? It's not like we have a choice of which postal service to use and it's not like the French could use it if they wanted to...
Needs to go for the Vuelta. Why? Because I say so (and because I live here in Spain and it would be cool).
I am a fan of Lance, moonbats. Check it out.
mmmmmmmmmmmmmm moonbats
Best wishes to you in your surgery Jb.
I believe Lance has simply been toying with the mere mortals on the tour (e.g., when he decided at the last moment to sprint and win the 17th stage that he was originally planning to concede)
Or riding up to the breakaway alongside Simeoni on Stage 18 up to the guys who were pushing away for what eventually became the stage win, then sitting back and waiting for the peloton. Now that was kinda scary in a superhuman way. Simeoni certainly thought so. But that was a deliberate fuck-you for what Simeoni said earlier this year. They'll meet up in court by the year's end.)
Perhaps we're so used to treating Lance as an heir to the legacy of Indurain (win the TTs, keep up in the mountains) that we've not expected that kind of Hinault/Merckx-style of aggressivité. Or perhaps it's that he never quite had that kind of ruthlessness in him until now.
(A parable?
Compare and contrast with Chimpy and his xenophobic, aggressively bigoted jingoistic enablers.
As a matter of fact Lance was very unhappy with the time trial a few days ago. The spectators on the mountain were completely out of control after camping out and drinking for the better part of three days. All that is required for a DQ is for a spectator to push one of the competitor's bicycles and it almost happened several times. The Italian and German fans spit on him, Italians wanted to see Iven Basso win and who knows what the Germans wanted, and held their flags in Lance's path only yanking them away at the last minute. Read Lance's comments about it, he said he felt unsafe. Xenophobia and jingoism is less of a problem in this country than in Europe where they kill one another over soccer matches.
Yeah. And ther's Tena. And Molly Ivins. And chili. Molly, NYC
and don't forget chris/tx
*
I am a fan of Charles Johnson, moonbats, Check it out.
and rorschach is from texas too!
*
US Postal started six years ago when they decided to go into sports sponsorship, but decided to end the entire program (it wasn't just Lance's Tour team, but there were several levels to it I believe, like lower division type teams to use a soccer metaphor) because they want to move away from this particular advertising promotion. But since USPS ships globally, I'm pretty sure they saw a reason/desire to advertise in something that gets a lot of play in the sporting press of other nations, and anything to increase brand awareness helps in the long run. Or something like that..
US Postal started six years ago
After this year they will no longer be sponsoring Lance's team, that job will go to Discovery Communications.
JB--our thoughts are all with you and yours.
I read the polls and often wonder what hope there is for a people when nearly half are so brain dead they support Bush.
Then I read the comments on Atrios full of love for Lance Armstrong -- for no other reason than he is an American -- and I see that a lot of people who oppose Bush are also brain dead. Would you be so excited if the six-time winner of the Tour was German or Dutch? For most of you it's not about a great athlete, it's about patriotic, in-your-face America-is-the-greatest crap.
Lance Armstrong has proven himself a particularly American-type asshole time and time again. (Read the article on his chicken-shit attitude in Sunday's NYT.) He says he's a friend of W, and no wonder -- it's all me first and winning is all that counts. They are both ego-centric morons.
I hope someone puts a pedal in Lance's spokes.
Lance lives in the city of Girona, the old Catalan capital, which shows class, IMHO. Where many Americans would gravitate to more trendy spots, he picked a beautiful, medieval, quiet beauty of a city. I think Basso is from near there, in Olot. Gorgeous cycling there, natch.
"US Postal Service needs to be sponsoring a cycling team?"
bang for the buck, around the world, professional bicyle racing is much more popular than in the states.
"Needs to go for the Vuelta. Why? Because I say so (and because I live here in Spain and it would be cool)."
I have read that he has wanted to add a win in one of the other big tours to his resume. There is a reason (before today) that only 5 have won 5 tours in over the 101 year history. I am not sure that anyone could win 7. It's that hard on your body. and in this day and age you cant win two big ones in one year.
BTW,
6bulls6,
Where do you live in Spain? Lived in Barcelona for 3 years, myself. Miss it like crazy. Sigh. Will go back if we get another Bush four.
Kalrsfini wrote: "I hope someone puts a pedal in Lance's spokes."
Is that because Lance can't be beaten fairly? Crawl back under your rock.
lancelot has been dating cheryl crow
you gossip hounds
she's not the only one who wants to have some fun
for no other reason than he is an American
No. He is a man who has overcome adversity in a spectacular way, doing more than many of us would do if we were in his shoes.
Lance Armstrong has proven himself a particularly American-type asshole time and time again...it's all me first and winning is all that counts.
I hope someone puts a pedal in Lance's spokes.
Karlsfini
He works harder than anyone else on tour and that, combined with his exceptional talent, allows him to win a lot. I suppose you think it better to work your tail off year round and then when the big event comes around try your best not to win? Or not work hard at all and be just mediocre at best at your chosen profession? What is it about the best man winning that makes you so bitter Karlsfini?
Also from TX:
Lyle Lovett -- not sure what his politics are, but I'm a fan.
Imagine if we had a president doing 1% as good a job representing our country to the world as Lance is. We'd be much better off. He's probably the classiest guy most of us will ever see in our lifetimes.
Karlsfini,
If a German or Dutch man had come back from a 20% chance of survival due to advanced testicular cancer to win the Tour six times, I would be just as impressed and awe-struck. I haven't been a huge fan of Lance for the past decade because he's American, though that's why I first heard about him; I'm a fan because he's a fantastic athlete and an inspiration in life, just as anybody else who's overcome life-threatening injury/illness to do extraordinary things.
I know there are lots of people in this country who just want to watch the USA when the Olympics come on, but I've gotten to the point where I don't give a shit about nationality anymore. I want jaw-dropping performances and amazing drama. Simply put, I want sport, and when I see great sport and great athletes, I sit back and enjoy it as a brief but much needed respite from the rest of the crap we have to endure everyday.
"Would you be so excited if the six-time winner of the Tour was German or Dutch?"
personally I and no doubt a few others would be blown away by anyone capable of such a feat. My only beef with Indurain was that he could crush everyone in the time trial, pretty astonishingly, but that suppressed the excitement in the mountains. Hinault, Merckx, Anquetil, wow.
"it's about patriotic, in-your-face America-is-the-greatest crap."
No its about a guy with a story that trandcends sport, regardless of guilt by association-lame-or whether he passes any particular litmus test-also lame. We are patriots, and fierce, but we are not nationalists.
"They are both ego-centric morons."
May be so. But only one of them has a very significan impact on my life and the future i will have to deal with.
xoxoxo
Karls, you sir are a total jackass. Lance was amongst the worst THREE percent of cancer patient's his doctor had ever seen. To come back from literally daeths doorstep to win the Tour de' France six times consecutively is a feat beyond comprehension. Especially your feeble powers of comprehension.
Karlsfini, harsh, bro! You may not even be wrong, but the dude beat the big "C", and then went on to dominate a particularly strenuous activity. Now, you may not be a cycling fan, but I think you might be attributing love of Lance to his Americanism, or some such, but for me, I just think he's awesome...not perfect, or right about everything, he may even be attractive (Sheryl Crow?), I don't care, it really doesn't take much away from his particular awesomeness. I mean, winning like that is pretty serious, dude, lighten up.
jb --
Even though I'm not especially a fan of cycling, Lance especially (and Kerry, too) inspired me when I had to go through cancer surgery and treatment this fall/winter/spring/summer. I just finished up with radiation on the 9th. You can do it. Good luck to you.
US Postal Service needs to be sponsoring a cycling team?
Hell, the U.S. military advertises on television. Ain't like there's another military in the country. "Yes, come join Bob's Army. They say they do more before 9 a.m. than most people do in a day? Hell, we're just getting in about that time."
Yeah. And ther's Tena. And Molly Ivins. And chili. Molly, NYC
and don't forget chris/tx
Hey! what about me? and don't forget Holden either.
and fourlegsGREAT!
and holden...
*
Butthole Surfers are from TX, no?
MoniCa, yes they are.
jb, good luck to you, and to MoniCA, best of luck to you also.
Lance does rock, but it's not because he's american, it's because he's great.
And yes, I would respect any other cyclist from whatever country that had achieved what he has.
I've never met him, but I've heard that he's a nice guy and a gentleman.
Belittling people because of their political comments or beliefs without taking into account the rest of their being is a giant step into fascism.
Exactly. Dehumanizing people by judging them solely based on one aspect of their self is reprehensible, be it their race, nationality, politics, religion or physical appearance. Equally so on judging people completely on a single misstep in their lives. Too many examples to list.
Would you be so excited if the six-time winner of the Tour was German or Dutch? For most of you it's not about a great athlete, it's about patriotic, in-your-face America-is-the-greatest crap.
A certain amount of national identification is inevitable in international sports. The Germans and the Dutch would be much more excited if the winner was one of theirs, also.
What makes Lance Armstrong interesting apart from his medically-incredible comeback from cancer, is respect for the countries where he competes. He likes France, and lives in Spain. Sure, some of this is PR, but there are plenty of flag-waving grandstanders who don't even pretend to care.
A case study in repulsive excess of sports-jingoism is almost upon us - the 2004 Olympics. Many other countries use the US broadcast feed of the Games, and every four years they are treated to a barely-watchable US-centered self-aggrandizement festival interspersed with saccharine soft-focus personal profiles.
Butthole Surfers are from TX, no?
MoniCA | Email | Homepage | 07.24.04 - 11:57 pm | #
And the best thing to come from the Surfers (in my opinion, anyway): former bassist Jeff Pinkus' power trio Honky.
Not to mention ZZ Top...George Jones...my buddies from Denton Slobberbone...and the late Waylon Jennings and Doug Sahm, who said "You just can't live in Texas if you don't have lots of soul."
Other famous Texans: Stevie Ray Vaughn
I'm from Texas, too, but I'm just me.
Yeah, Lance is cool and I find his personal story inspiring. I don't know diddly about this racing stuff. It just doesn't register on my radar screen as anything important. Call it a girl thing or whatever.
Let's not go there about the USPS sponsorship. Suffice it to say that I am glad the sponsorship will end soon. Let it come out of someone else's pocket. I'm tired of paying for it.
Steve Earle lived here for quite a long time.
And Selena. What a gorgeous voice she had...
I've been watching the Freedom race(or the race to get out of france as Rush puts it) almost all week on the OLN channel, or Outdoor Life Network which I think operates out of Quebec, or somewhere else in Canada.
I have to admit it has been interesting watching it. I always thought watching a bike race would be like watching golf. Dead, and more dead by the minute.
But I was sitting there with the son and we took odds as to whether the poparazi-like camera crews who are riding in cars next to the leaders wouldn't get too close, and knock one of them out by accident.
Edge of your seat excitement.
MYOB'
.
Would you be so excited if the six-time winner of the Tour was German or Dutch?
Damn straight, I would. Don't know, don't care about his personal life or politics. I'd probably hate hime in person, but on the bike...WOW! He's getting old for a world-class athelete, has come back from cancer and he took a multi mile 8% grade at 16 MPH (or something like that). I'm impressed.
Winning Le Tour six times is impressive no matter who you are or what your country is.
Backslider:
Yeah, the Army uses advertising to recruit people to kill people from somewhere else.
Here at the Postal Service, the honchos give a bicyclist millions, but will take an employee off the clock to save a buck if he keels over from a heart attack. Before they call 911. Before they see if he even has a pulse.
I only wish I were joking.
Steve Earle lived here for quite a long time
Steve was born in Fort Monroe, Virginia, actually, but his folks were basically just off the bus from Texas. His paternal granddad sent along a box of San Antonio soil so that the first thing his grandson touched would be Texas.
If nothing else, I think that story is a brief example about that whatever it is about Texas that natives get but non-Texans don't. I've always got a surreal kick out of people who pretend to be Texans, be they Jerry Jeff Walker or Bush The Lesser. No one pretends to be a native Idahoian or affects an Alabama accent.
What a country.
Personally my favourite riders are Ullrich and McEwen.
I dug McEwen's wheelie at the end of the mountain time trial.
Yes, I knew Earle was from here, not born here. Texans are real partic'ler about the difference.
I wasn't born here, either. Might as well have been, since I was only 6 months old when my Mama moved back here. But does this place ever have a hold on you.
I was living in CA and flipping through some TV stations in a hotel once. In this split second, I saw this crowd stand up and this huge Texas flag being waved. And suddenly, I was crying from homesickness. It wasn't that I wanted to go to a specific home there. Good grief, I never lived in one house or even town long enough to call it home. I just wanted to go back to Texas. I missed it so much, I ached. I don't think anyone not from here could understand that.
Can someone explain to me why the US Postal Service needs to be sponsoring a cycling team? It's not like we have a choice of which postal service to use
I don't about you, but I have several choices when I want to send a package overnight, or rush delivery. UPS, Fed Ex, DHL, they all compete with the US Postal Service.
Alright, so who wins head to head if both are in their prime, Lance or Lemond?
Personally, I think Lemond was the most talented US pro ever. Should have won six in a row, including '85 when he allowed Hinault to win, and seeing as how a disease from all the lead ended his career, who knows what he could have done after 1990. I give him the slight edge in that I think he competed against stronger fields. I don't think you could go wrong selecting either one, though.
LJ -- I feel it for Michigan all the time, even though I don't really want to go back there. The mall the recruiters talk about going to in F 9/11 was where I saw The Empire Strikes Back when it came out. I think we all feel that way for the places we come from, though Texans are more vocal about it than most, to be sure.
"lead" in the last post meaning buckshot.
LJ,
The couple times I've been there, I liked Texas. Sure, most of east Texas is not much different from Alabama, but hell...I grew up in Mississippi, so I know the people. Austin's so cool mere words cannot describe it. Denton's pretty neat, too, and I really liked San Antonio. The only part I didn't like was West Texas, out by El Paso. Scary people out there in a scary land. Miles and miles of nothing but miles and miles of nothing does bad things to the mind, I think.
But I think home's home for everybody. I'd be hard-pressed to move back to my Mississippi place of birth anytime in the near future (much to my dear mother's heartbreak). However, both my brother and I agreed we'd hold onto to the old homeplace for as long as possible when our parents pass on. It's been in my mom's family for almost 150 years. It's home. Maybe it's not where my body or mind is, but my soul is always covered in red-clay mud.
Would you be so excited if the six-time winner of the Tour was German or Dutch? For most of you it's not about a great athlete, it's about patriotic, in-your-face America-is-the-greatest crap.
Nah. I'm not American. I have, on the other hand, been on the Champs-Elysees twice for the fin du Tour. And to say that Lance has ridden this Tour like a French patron is possibly the greatest compliment.
Y'all are forgetting that Holden is from Texas; Austin, as a matter of fact. There are quite a few Texans who hang out here.
Vladi G: interesting question. Hinault considered LeMond his heir apparent, which pissed off Fignon (obviously). Hence 1985/6. The LeMond of that period against Armstrong now? (Because I think this was Armstrong's most impressive win by a long chalk.) I dunno, really. Impossible to compare unless you factor in the teams, and Lance has benefitted from a team crafted around him. I'd shade LeMond in a TT, but across a full tour, I'd have to give Armstrong the nod.
(Remember that the last person to win the Tour, the Giro and the rainbow jersey was Stephen Roche of Ireland.)
And to say that Lance has ridden this Tour like a French patron is possibly the greatest compliment.
What if instead they say he rode it like a mafia don enforcing the omerta? LA, Ferrari called, he says thanks for sticking it to that little bitch Simeoni.
"Yeah. And ther's Tena. And Molly Ivins. And chili. Molly, NYC"
And at least partial claim to Bill Moyers!
But thanks. All this is a good reminder that Texas is not just a source of Bushes, Delays etc. -though it sure as heck produces more than its share of these!
Anyway, Agassi and Armstrong are the two current athletes I most admire.
tena -
we gave props to holden and fourlegs a few comments up... lots of texans here, for sure.
*
Wow, a jock-Texas thread on Atrios! You guys must have scored some good shit! Love Lance, hate everybody else, I'm goin' back to larnin' 'bout Texans and Frenchmen.
I've had the privelege of working tech support for several of the LAF Ride for the Roses, and the fact that he adds his considerable clout to raise that kind of awareness and fuding for cancer research gets him major props in my book.
lots of texans here, for sure.
And let's not be forgetting Mr. Robert M. Jeffers (Austin?).
obviously that should be funding
And let's not be forgetting Mr. Robert M. Jeffers (Austin?).
sporty orty
I think he's currently ensconced in the hellhole of my birth, Houston
Wow, a jock-Texas thread on Atrios! You guys must have scored some good shit! Love Lance, hate everybody else, I'm goin' back to larnin' 'bout Texans and Frenchmen.
I don't recall anyone bashing the French in this thread...
Besides, we all know Louisiana beats the pants off of Texas any day!
stinky feet,
Sorry to say that I'm in Valladolid, Castilla y Leon, which remains a hotbed of PP activity. Would be nice if I were in Barcelona or Sevilla (or even Santiago or Oviedo). But still, it's Spain, and next week I plan to hop on the train to the Cantabrian coast for a few days of beach and boquerones.
Backslider:
Know what you mean about home is home, but...
I guess it can't be explained. I joke that Texas is like the husband I can't stand to live with, can't stand to live without. I'm miserable with him, but I'm even more miserable without him.
Maybe the reason we're this way is because it was a magnet for the bat-shit crazy element--religious freaks, con artists, outcasts, land speculators, horse thieves, murderers, drunks, megalomaniacs--we had 'em all. They poured in here from everywhere. You put that many nut cases in one place, you're gonna have a unique history. Of course, then there's the problem of the DNA they brought with 'em...
Don't forget Ann Richards, Billy Lee Brammer, and Arthur Fenstemaker.
"Personally, I think Lemond was the most talented US pro ever. Should have won six in a row, including '85 when he allowed Hinault to win, and seeing as how a disease from all the lead ended his career"
Vladi G
It is all too easy to forget the first greatist comback ever. Lemond finished 3rd in his first tour in '84 (ullrich 2nd 96) after winning the junior world title in 79, argentina I believe. 85 was his, but loyalty to the code of the sport and team he was played (by Guimard) into waiting for his boss and letting a number of riders pass him when he could win the stage. He won in '86, and had to deal with dissention among the ranks when the promise that Hinault made to lemond in 85, the help me win 5 and I'll help you win in '86 was not honored. Hinault attacked until he Lemond beat him soundly in the first time trial.
He was shot by mistake on a hunting trip with his brother in law and nearly dies. In fact, when he returns to the sport in 1989, he starts slowly and ends up winning the tour on the last day by an 8 second margin after being down by 50 seconds on the day into paris which happens to be the last tour that finished with a time trial. Oh and it was a short i5 mile time trial. And he still has buckshot in the lining of his heart.
He won his third tour in 1990, slowly taking time out of his plucky nemisis
chiapucci, who was previosly to the tour an unknown, and had escaped on an early stage with others considered no threat (st. 3,4,or 5) and had a 10-12 minute cushion.
I have always thought that Greg would have been the first 5 or 6 time American winner of the tour, had not the shotgun/bullets in the heart thing, the fact that he won two tours afterwards fall in the vicinity of what Lance has done.
I apologise for the Lemond Hagiography, but damn if that guy wasn't an inspiration
Lance is definitely a Democrat and a BIG ATHIEST to boot...just read his books, which is surprising for lots of people because of his cancer and such, but he still insists that he doesn't believe in GOd. Which is cool.....shows how stubborn he is.
Just got in, but wanted to thank Jenny for the props way upthread!
Watched Lance today and he is really amazing. Re the rumors about his doping, I saw one of those documentaries about Lance and how he trains. One of the things they state is that his lung capacity is huge, kinda like an underwater freediver.
That and he is all solid muscle. That combination of being able to intake oxygen and have the pure power is a realy plus. Also, they say is rides every inch of every stage. He knows where to shift, where to push, where to be careful. I wonder if the others do the same.
And last, all of his team members provide protection for him. And wind barriers so he does not expend near as much energy during the majority of the trip.
And technology advances on his bikes. His bike yesterday was too lite, and they had to add several "metal" screws to add to the weight. He spends hours in wind tunnels to find the best way to ride.
Ullrich said he did not need wind tunnels. He already rides perfect. He finished fourth.
Hey rorschach -
always props to you!
*
LJ,
Yup. Despite it all, I sorta dig the freakshow that is America. Yeah, it would be incredibly groovy is everyone could be a swingin', laid-back, good-nature live-and-let-live sort of cat like myself, but the collection of whackos, weirdos, dingbats and dodos make living in this country - and especially the South - so interesting. It's like what H.L. Menken said about living in America when he supposedly found so much wrong with it: "Why does a man go to the zoo?"
For instance, there was an item in the "Faith & Values" (read: religious) section of today's Atlanta Urinal-Constipation about a Bible studies group that meets at - and I am not making this up - at Hooters. Yeah, it basically combines two of the worst things about American society - rampant, juvenile sexism and close-minded religious ignorance - but I thought it was beautiful in its surrealness.
Man. What a country.
Basso had a three minute start, and Armstrong almost passed him by the finish line. Unbelievable.
Backslider:
Yeah. It's like Tom DeLay having staff meetings at Hooters. Surreal.
But a correction is in order: (religion) needs to read (Christian, with a few sops to Judaism and maybe a mention of Islam at Ramadan).
I apologise for the Lemond Hagiography, but damn if that guy wasn't an inspiration
The most impressive story about Lemond is the story of the the testing they did on his muscle tissue to diagnose his mitochondrial myopathy. They couldn't give him any anesthetic because of the effect on the muscle tissue. They strapped him down, wide awake, and sliced into his leg to take samples. I cringe just thinking about it.
"They strapped him down, wide awake, and sliced into his leg to take samples. I cringe just thinking about it."
Vladi G - eek! you just set me up for a bad dream...
*
Thanks Vladi, i am unaware or that story regarding the treatment, but according to this it may have been a congenital condition. And adding being shot, well, holy shit.
too bad he's one of the worst doppers to ever hit cycling...
Just another dopers' sport? This from Lance's hero:
http://www.eurosport.com/home/
pa...Sto613945.shtml
"Greg LeMond, the original American Tour de France strongman, lambasted Lance Armstrong Thursday, voicing a point-blank synopsis of his sport: Cycling is doped and so is Lance Armstrong.
COFIDIS: Damaging doping case
In an interview with French daily Le Monde, LeMond -- winner of the Tour de France in 1986, 1989 and 1990 -- elaborated on the brouhaha escalating between himself and Armstrong and made scathingly public in the recently published book "L.A. Confidential: The Secrets of Lance Armstrong," which details Armstrong's alleged ties to performance-enhancing drug use.
"Lance was violent and very accusatory," LeMond said, rehashing a July, 2001 phone conversation with Armstrong in which the five-time Tour winner took issue with statements made by LeMond to David Walsh, a sports columnist at London's Sunday Times and co-author of "L.A. Confidential."
The Sunday Times quoted LeMond as lamenting Armstrong's well documented association with Dr. Michele Ferrari, an Italian who is recognised as the chemical architect behind some of cycling's more dubious teams.
"EPO is no more dangerous than orange juice," Ferrari once told French sports daily L'Equipe.
"Lance thought I was trying to attack him, but I simply wanted to convince him to cut his ties with Ferrari," LeMond said in Le Monde.
"Lance insinuated that I couldn't have won the Tour without EPO," LeMond continued.
"That's impossible because EPO wasn't even around at the time," LeMond said, nonetheless pegging the drug's exact entry into the pro peloton.
"In 1990 I won the Tour and my team [Z] won the top-team classification. One year later, not one of us could follow the pace in the pack. There had been a radical change."
"I'm happy I'm no longer racing because, today, riders don't have much of a choice... There's always been a doping problem in our sport, but in the last 10 years, the products have become so powerful that they can literally change the physiology of an athlete."
"You can transform a mule into a thoroughbred."
Armstrong's rebuttal, of course, is -- and has always been -- that he has never tested positive.
"Everybody says that," retorted LeMond in the pages of Le Monde.
"[World time-trial champion] David Millar also never tested positive, but now he's admitted using EPO... Lance is ready to do anything to keep his secret. But I don't know how long he's going to be able to continue convincing people that he's innocent."
Lance is ready to do anything to keep his secret. But I don't know how long he's going to be able to continue convincing people that he's innocent."
about somes it up
"Athletics sprint world champion Kelli White of the United States was suspended for two years in May after admitting she had used the blood-boosting synthetic hormone erythropoietin (EPO) as well as prohibited muscle-building anabolic steroids."
http://www.xtramsn.co.nz/sport/
0...3530075,00.html
I think EPO is one treatment some suspect Lance has been taking. This is supposed to be testable. Does anyone know if it is being tested for on the Tour de France?
"Does anyone know if it is being tested for on the Tour de France?"
Are you kidding? They are agressively testing everyone at Tour de France for every known supstance.
EPO is hard to detect though, and there have before been types of doping developed in the US, and used by US athletes, that wasn't know to the rest of the world for years, and hence couldn't be detected.
To my mind, there is no doubt that Armstrong is doped (he went from cancer to wining the tour in how short a timespan?), as are everyone else in that race. He is just better at hiding it.
Also, the US has a reputation for not doing enough doping control of atheletes, neither at competitions nor between competitions.
Dear President Kerry,
Please nominate Lance Armstrong to be your Ambassador to France.
Love,
vaara
i don't know about the drug allegations, wouldn't surprise me.
but my lance anecdote has to do with a kerry interview with peter jennings.
peter, asked kerry, the very serious question about him being the 1st cancer survivor to be a canidate. kerry, immediately pointed out that lance armstrong was a cancer survivor, and he was about to win his sixth tour de france. i found it a masterful political stroke.
my take on the drugs, no professional athlete can hope to rise to the top with out them. as i heard one doctor say "the worst athlete on performance enhancing drugs will beat the best athlete who is not." on the other hand, as has been noted, lance, is an unusual physical speciman, with a heart a third larger than the average man, that runs at 30 beats per min.!
i still hate him tho 'cause he is with that hottie rocker, cheryl crow. i love cheryl crow.
To my mind, there is no doubt that Armstrong is doped (he went from cancer to wining the tour in how short a timespan?), as are everyone else in that race. He is just better at hiding it.
Bullshit.
The man has a resting pulse of 38. 38! And surviving cancer has a way of focusing a person.
He trained like a fiend this year to become even more dominating than in the past, despite the Tour's best efforts to design the race to slow him down (really, time trials in the Alps?!). Armstrong has been single-mindedly focused on the Tour, to the exclusion of other classic races. This year he trained on the Tour route itself for months--nobody else rode stage 16 climb a dozen times.
He also has a great team that makes awesome tactical decisions, is very powerful, and extremely well-funded.
So in absence of proof that he is doing anything untoward, despite all the intense focus on him and efforts to prove he's doping, I'm accepting him as just an incredible rider. Anybody who claims otherwise is as deluded as those who said we'd find WMD in Iraq, all evidence to the contrary.
FWIW, there's a really good, personal article about Lance on MSGOP.
In the absence of evidence--except for the assertions of folks like LeMond, who seem like they would know--I have a hard time believing that Lance's victories are all about his prowess at doping. If it is true that everyone is doing it, all the griping from fans of other teams should be translated as "Your doping is better than ours!" (Well, no sheet, this is ammerrika, dammit! We're the land that invented better living through modern science!)
For what it is worth, even if Lance has been doping in the past, do you really think that a guy who brushed off metastasized cancer in the brain and lungs, and who paid with a nut, for chrissakes, is going to voluntarily undergo treatments that have younger, healthier men literally dropping like flies by cardiac arrest in their sleep?
Lance came to road racing after starting out in triathlons--another intense sport, but the swimming left him with a useless burden of upper body strength, which got wasted away (25 pound worth) when he lost weight to cancer. Now he's just a just a stripped down racing machine. Look at the weight of guys like Jan Ullrich. Okay, the good news is, it helps them going downhill....
And look at the cadence Lance uses. I'm amazed that the superiority of using high-cadence, low gears in ascents isn't recognized as the killer tool in Lance's arsenal by other riders, who still struggle in the European macho mode of climbing "with force," trying to grind out a bigger gear than they think their opponents can stand. Using a lower gear at higher reps, especially coupled with a superlatively high threshold for going anaerobic, means that the true agony of intense hill climbing comes at a higher speed. It also means that you've got more range for acceleration by dropping into a higher gear when you want to. It is a thing of beauty to watch Lance pick it up and dance away as if it really didn't hurt that much. The Tour is about how much a cyclist can stand, how much suffering he can take on, how much he can sacrifice, and Lance wins because he suffers at a higher speed than his opponents.
And as for all the good folks who've come out of Texas, hmmm....
The operative link between "Texas" and "good" seems to be "out of"...except for Bush, who should just go the hell back. And take Tom DeLay with ya'll.
The heck with "Don't mess with Texas." Texas is a mess.
markitos - bravo!
I wouldn't pay too much attention to what LeMond says.
He was a great cycler (probably better than Lance) but he says a lot of pretty weird stuff.
That's not to say Lance isn't on drugs (though I liked his response to a pesky journalist: "I'm on my bike several hours a day, what are you on?"), but LeMond isn't going to add anything credible to the discussion.
Apropos of nothing, one of my coworkers used to ride the European circuit with LeMond.
Now, Armstrong (a Bush Boy) will be out campaigning for him.
Mark,
Did you not read all of the comments above about how Lance, while a friend of W's, doesn't agree with his politics or with the war in Iraq, and is more centre-left in his views?
I think this interview will surprise many who think Lance is a "Bush Boy."
He may like the Boy King, but you may find this interesting:
[http://www.lancearmstrongfanclub.com/
uktimesonline.html
Sorry, try it this time.
www.lancearmstrongfanclub.com/uktimesonline.html
Lance is a doper.
Lance is the most drug tested athlete in the history of sports. He's never failed a test. Not once. The book that was just published claiming Lance was doping was not released in the US or the UK. Why? Because the standards for libel are lower, and the publisher was not willing to defend that book in the US or UK legal systems.
Sorry you cynics can't simply enjoy watching a great accomplishment being accomplished. These negative claims that athletes can't win clean. Athletes do appear that are capable of doing thing that others in their sports can't do. Look at Jim Abbott. Look at Muggsy Bogues. Armstrong started his athletic career as pro triathlete. If you can't see how that type of extreme endurance training early in Armstrong's career would give him an advantage over his rivals, you're blind.
Ullrich? Less streudel in the off season would help, but Ullrich is also quite pleased to not be under the infamous East German athletic structure anymore. All the interviews with Ullrich seem to show him as happy and content with his life. Lucky him. He doesn't need to win anymore to be content.
Lance has a unique talent that he honed with extreme training that others refused to endure. That's why Armstrong wins.
Oh... and as I typed this, Lance crossed the line in Paris. It's official. Lance Armstrong wins his 6th straight Tour de France.
FYI -- I believe EPO (a.k.a. Procrit) is used to boost red blood cell production in cancer patients like Lance during and after chemo (chemo slows production of blood cells down). It's the drug they advertise on TV with the older man and the puppy. (G-CSF is one of the drugs used to boost white cell production in a similar way). If a healthy person was using EPO, I would think they could test his or her hemoglobin count to see if it is abnormally high.
one Tour rider was DQ'd for a high hematocrit this year, that is the main test for presence of EPO.
HGH (human growth hormone) is another one that has been used a fair amount by elite athletes. It would surprise me if LA would even consider that, with his history of cancer, and the risks.
bottom line IMO, is that they *all* do it (doping) at some point, because at that level of competition (TdF, olympics, whatever) the advantages are whisker thin. but the combination of physical and psychological endurance can't come out of a syringe-and LA has 'em both in spades.
physiologically, performance-enhancing drugs can help you run faster, jump higher, lift heavier. but for an event like le Tour, the grueling course and the 3 week calendar erase most of that advantage. LA credits his experience surviving cancer and the treatment for giving him both the mental toughness and the willingness to endure the suffering that may be beyond the reachc of others. I may be wrong-but I happen to believe him.
Lance for Ambassador to France!
Maybe before cancer Lance doped, maybe not. I believe that he is innocent until proven guilty.
The USPS team is subjected to random drug tests at a higher level than any other team that competes in the tour.
Face it, there are always going to be the few that just can't admit that there are superior people in the world, those that advance by sheer hard work, will and determination, who just work harder to win. Lance leaves nothing to chance, he rides the stages in the rain, while Ulrich watched them on tv, he warms up in the heat while Ulrich was in the a/c in a bike shop. Lance trains all year, Ulrich takes months off, gains 30lbs, then has to lose it. Lance diets until he is 155lbs, (yes he diets!) and is 15 lbs less than Ulrich. Lance tests every bit of his equiptment, helmets, bikes, seats, clothing, food, shoes, in the heat, in the cold, in the rain and in the sun.
Lance's team mates are the best in any given year, and none of them has ever tested positive for drugs.
Lance leaves nothing to chance, nothing, but there will always be those who are weaker in mind, body and spirit, who are jealous, who lack the work ethic, who are just whiners that won't believe that someone can be a champion because THEY WORKED HARDER THAN ANYONE ELSE TO SUCEED.
Lance deserves everything he worked so hard to get.
Those who cast aspersions on Lance only make themselves look bad.
6bulls6,
It all sounds good to me. Barcelona is great, but I have to admit, I love all of Spain. Valladolid included.
Amazing,
A completely non-Partisan issue that all but the most extreme partisans (Lib or Repub) can agree with.
Lance rules the TDF...however, in the real bicycling world he's a specialist
that concentrates on the TDF...as an all around racer he's limited by his
lack of wins in the spring classics
and his not racing in the Giro de Italia or the Tour of Spain...6 wins in the TDF is huge...no one has done it as well...Eddy M had a chance to get 6 but was punched by a thug on a mountain stage and didn't recover...the greatest rider ever was and is Eddy M...he won basically without a team because no one could keep up to give help...Eddy M raced every chance he could and won about 50% of the time
...that said: GO LANCE...Lance has
been reported as saying that next season he would race the spring races...
You experts crack me up about the Lemond/Armstrong comparisons.
Yes, Lemond probably would have won more than 3 tours if it wasn't for the accident, but 87 wouldn't have been a given. If you didn't know, Roche won that year, as well as the Giro, as well as the Worlds. I think only Merckz has ever done that.
Also, look at the number of stage wins of each. I am going from memory, but I think Lemond only won about 6 stages in his life, an avg. of 2/win. Armstrong has won over 20...you do the math.
And, the tour Lemond had to dominate and win as many stages as possible was 90, and he won zero. It took him all tour to make up 9 minutes. Armstrong was down over 30 and he won 4 stages in dominating fashion in 2001. Also, to say that the competition in Lemond's time was better is laughable.
So, though Lemond was great and was a victim of bad luck, I don't believe the facts and knowledge that I have about bike racing (I was a cat 2 at one time) makes me put Lemond in Armstrong's class. I do give him this....if anybody is interested, if you can find a copy of the 89 worlds that Lemond won then you will see what I think is the greatest bicycle race that was ever ridden.
Chas
Ah well, my point of view.
I'd estimate that 90% of the peloton is on dope. Because quite a few ex racers finally admit it, because there are numerous testimonies of such things as being rooted in the race, and the sport.
Well, 90% of the peloton doesn't test positive. That's why you need a good doctor : to keep ahead of the techniques and testings.
Everyone does it, and i'd add that everyone knows it. Just don't get caught.
So anquetil did dope (lots, it is said), hinault did, merckx (yes, god himself) did, and lance does. And coppi, and indurain, and bahamontes, and bobet and lemond and all the pantheon. And pantani (rip), no shit. The life expectancy and cancers among ex racers is _not_ because they toiled so hard.
It is not really a problem : problem is the hypocrisy of the system, not the good doctor ferrari's wonders. Armstrong does rank high in the great champs hierarchy, on the right of merckx the godfather, maybe above hinault, every bit as courageous as he looks. It's simply the system that's geared this way, and he's in it.
Now about the spitting an all that : what is amazing is all went relatively quiet. In all the race the total viewer amount to 15-20millions people. In this mix, there are certainly a lot of whackos. Merckx was punched. Hinault punched -loveable mean ol' bastard :> . Fignon nearly started a fight with a journalist.
The only thing that makes is so quiet, relatively to the massive attendance, is precisely that people are so packed along the streets, imho. Even if you're nuts, you don't wan't to get a whole angry, overexcited crowd going after you after you messed with their idol.
Has Lance ever said "No, I do not take performance enhancing drugs, nor have I ever used blood doping"?
Every time I see/read him in an interview he says "Those are extraordinary accusations, but without extraordinary evidence".
On an aside:
"Blood doping" is not drug-realated. It is actually just re-infusing your own blood before a race to increase redblood cells (RBCs), which increases oxygen capacity. It cannot be traced. The only evidence are track marks from injections, and an increased RBC %. The latter is naturally high in some folks, especially if they live in high altitudes. High RBC % is also dangerous because its mean the blood is thick and can clot internally, especially if you are an athlete with a low pulse. The maximum allowable RBC % allowed in racing is 50%.
Given that Lance has a very close professional relationship with Ferrari, it is a given that he uses performace-enhancers. There is no other reason to hang with the doctor. None. He is the pusher man for EPO.
However, taking EPO does not automatically guarantee a great performance. Lance trains liek a fiend for the TDF, the EPO is just icing on the cake.
Personally, I just want the riders to wear labels that say "clean" or "enhanced" such that I can differentiate between the two kinds of racers.
Anon,
I think you overstate his relationship with Ferrari. Ferrari brings alot more to the table than being the "EPO Doctor". It is possible to have more than one valuable ability.
Just because Ferrari has been accused does not make him guilty. He has been found guilty of nothing. Maybe you need to go over to some of the wingnut sites where they like to bash due process when appropriate; you might feel more at home in that atmosphere.
Also, why would Armstrong publicly vehemently defend this guy while continuing his relationship if his only job was to dope Armstrong? If I was in Armstrong's shoes, the last thing I would do is go and do that so publicly and continue doping thru the guy. There are more people in the world to get EPO or other drugs than Ferrari. I am not saying Ferrari may not have done this in the past with other riders because I do not know. I am just saying that to say he is the source of Armstrong's alleged doping is ludicrous on the surface, especially at this date.
I personally would not bet that Armstrong never doped or is not doped now. I would not bet that he is, either. Just sit back and enjoy the sport because if he is doped, it is still a level playing field.
Chris
Not for Filippo Simeoni it isn't.
The repugs were dragging poor Lance out this morning on Blitzer. David Dryer, asked what progress was being made in Iraq, whined about "the schools" for awhile and then lamely added that "Lance Armstrong's performance is an inspiration for everyone." WTF? I'm having flashbacks to Newt Gingrich and the beach volleyball players.
Spare me the Simeoni sob story. Simioni was busted for a dirty drug test and had his suspension reduced to 4 months by "cooperating" in the investigation of Ferrari.
We saw just how much class Simeoni has today when he attacked on the final day, which is a universal no-no. It's only happened once in the entire history of the Tour de France. 1979. Some fool attacked Hinault. Hinault was so pissed off, he counter-attacked, left that fool and the rest of the field in his wake and rode into Paris alone to win the stage.
lance won... a fact which you are probably all aware of... but i was away and didn't get to comment... blah blah blah... i am rambling....
Lance has adopted Austin, but he is from Plano, TX. Best way to describe Plano is to picture Tom DeLay's district in TX on steroids.
From what I've heard him say over the years, Lance would tell you he's from Austin, period. And Austin has long time been, as Leonard Cohen once described it, "one of the outposts of resistance." The Texas Hill Country in general was settled by a different mix than the usual Scotch-Irish sociopaths who settled East Texas (being Texan AND Scotch-Irish, I am allowed to say that). Lots of German freethinkers, academics (drawn to UT's money), Czechs, fun-loving Poles, etc. Austin was pro-Union during the Civil War, as was Sam Houston.
Some fool attacked Hinault.
Joop Zoetemelk. A foolish move but not a fool.
All of you that are saying "Lance is a doper" and "90% of the pro peloton are dopers" are fools. Either statement may or may not be true, but you have no idea whether they are and likely never will.
Mark
You are all diseased! Lance does not need to dope. If you read the results of tests that were performed on him in his teens, he has a much higher ability to transfer oxygen and produces much less lactic acid than his competitors. He had a rolodex full of potential sponsors before he was out of high school. I am not aware of any enurance athlete like him. Lance is simply the greatest bike racer of all time. Who cares about his politics or the politics of any other celebrity? For that matter, why do you care about "America's image" anyway? F--- France and their cohorts! God Bless The Tour de France, Lance Armstrong, Texas and the USA!
Characters Remaining:
Commenting by HaloScan
