I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Kerry, bitches!
Balloon popping???
Zell Miller's head exploding
I'm gonna be so tired tomorrow, but it was so worth it staying up late and watching this.
Awesome. Even fucking Pat Buchanan, yes even crazy pat said it was a great speech.
Thanks for the new thread, A-girl.
Right on, renato!
whoooohooooo!!!
i am just too ridiculously happy.
so what the f--- is coulter gonna say tomorrow?
It's true - I think a lot of union members in swing states who have traditional values are voting their walletbooks.
When I went door to door with labor in June, the people who opened the doors, who were mostly registered Republicans, were worried largely about the war and their jobs, and they had not very pleasant words for Bush.
Many of them had sons old enough to be drafted, and some were Vietnam vets, which defined how they felt about Chickenhawk-in-Chief.
ravenatro
Out of the park...
"I think people got spoiled by prosperity under Bill Clinton,"
.. nothing to add, just wanted to repeat it..
Fireworks!!! I love fireworks.
Did you guys see the crawl that the new Zogby poll has Kerry up 48% to 43%?
Take that you fucker Gillespie.
Take that chimpy. Hope you picked out a need weedwacker while you were on vacation.
so what the f--- is coulter gonna say tomorrow?
I've got a pretty fucking good idea, but I'm too much of a fucking gentleman to elaborate.
so what the f--- is coulter gonna say tomorrow?
I've got a pretty fucking good idea, but I'm too much of a fucking gentleman to elaborate.
"so what the f--- is coulter gonna say tomorrow?"
SCREEEEEEEEEEECH pretty girls
SCREEEEEEEEEEECH hatefest
SCREEEEEEEEEEECH Cheneysohot
SCREEEEEEEEEEECH (drools)
four legs, get some rest. I don't think I'll be able to sleep until November, and Atrios will need some of us around to keep up the standards of discourse here.
The debates are going to be wild. And election night ....
Must stop worrying about future. Must bask in glow of entire bottle of pinot gris and ass-kicking delivered on my behalf by my candidate.
A.
Hey, WTF is up with the double post?
I blame haloscan.
Don't know if anyone else mentioned this...but it seems to me that a big part of the victory here is that Kerry and most of the other speakers have finally defined the Repubs, and framed the debate on their own terms.
I'm not hearing this from a lot of commentators, and probably won't, but I think Bush is going to have an incredibly hard time climbing out of the frame Kerry put him in tonight. The only thing that comes naturally to him is spite and sneering, and that's not going to do the trick at this late date.
Typical, the union people get complacent when a DEM has everything running smoothly and they vote for the GOP on marginal issues.
Then when they get double crossed they come running to the DEMS for help, when will they learn and think long term for crying out loud.
PEACE!
ABB&B!!!
KERRY/EDWARDS 2004
Well, Chris Matthews and Tucker Carlson and Howard Fineman and Joe Scarborough didn't think it was so good.
He called for raising taxes!
He skipped over his Vietnam protests!
He was sweating!
He talked too fast!
He kept repeating himself!
He didn't write the whole speech himself!
He didn't have enough balloons!
On the other hand, Ron Reagan is on MSNBC, and he's not talking about stem cells. coooool!
I thought the speech was mediocre even for a Kerry speech. 5 minutes into the speech I found myself looking at my watch and it seemed to have stopped. When I turned to my wife to ask the time I realized she had been lulled to sleep by Kerry's speech.
Sadly ironic.
Maybe it will make them loyal Dems.
It took a great depression to make everyone a Democrat.
Why So? Because bad times bring out the best in Americans, and Democrats represent the best we have to offer.
Rad Ray,
Coulter is going to hoarsely bemoan the fact that Kerry is going send out communist commissars to redistribute American's furniture and home entertainment centers.
Steve
When I turned to my wife to ask the time I realized she had been lulled to sleep by Kerry's speech.
Anonymous
You sure it was Kerry's speech that did it? Maybe it was the stultifying, life-draining burden of being married to a tedious little pipsqueak with shit for brains.
You never know, right?
Anonymous is dead.
When I turned to my wife to ask the time I realized she had been lulled to sleep by Kerry's speech.
Anonymous
You sure it was Kerry's speech that did it? Maybe it was the stultifying, life-draining burden of being married to a tedious little pipsqueak with shit for brains.
You never know, right?
It was a fabulous speech. I laughed, I cried, I nearly jumped up and hugged my tv when it was all over!
Very funky connection tonight here. Thank you all - another great night.
Can you trust a man to run a country when he can't even drop balloons on time?
Very funky connection tonight here.
Me too.
I'm glad that I perservered.
I thought the speech was mediocre even for... zZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzz
Troll! I call troll!
God, how obvious can you get?? LOL
Sorry, it just cracks me up.
Philalethes-
check out the work and thought of George Lakoff - out of Berkeley with the Rockridge Institute regarding how effective the repubs have been at 'framing' the message, suggesting the dems use the same rhetorical tactics-- good stuff
"Did you guys see the crawl that the new Zogby poll has Kerry up 48% to 43%?
"
That's right! We're about to see a BIG post-convention jump in the polls.
It's Xmas in July!
Phila, that's my short condensation of Kevin Drum on these speeches.
Maybe it was the stultifying, life-draining burden of being married to a tedious little pipsqueak with shit for brains.
You're talking about Laura Bush right?
thought so.
A man on the Hill,
You are kidding right? Sure, let's just trust the country to a spoon-fed-dry-drunk-dolt who has redefined the termed petty. right. If you are a pretend-troll, you have my thanks, if not ... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
aeon_flux: was he on NOW with good ol' Bill? I remember a very articulate guy there talking about defining frames and using words right and proper. Like, anyone else notice the absolute prevalence of "wise" and "wisely"?? Very cool!
We can beat them at their own game, but with MUCH more credibility!
You sure it was Kerry's speech that did it? Maybe it was the stultifying, life-draining burden of being married to a tedious little pipsqueak with shit for brains.
You never know, right?
Philalethes | Email | Homepage | 07.30.04 - 12:34 am |
Oh I think he knows ...
Well, Chris Matthews and Tucker Carlson and Howard Fineman and Joe Scarborough didn't think it was so good.
Wandering from the topic already....
The treatment of Matthews and Company by Jon Stewart was wonderful tonight. Matthews apparently blabbed through Al Sharpton's improvisational riff on voting rights for blacks, and Howard Fineman called it an "insult to black Americans." Which prompted Jon to show all the "insulted blacks" on the floor, cheering Sharpton on ("Finally, some red meat!").
Then the floor reporter (sorry, names already escaping overtaxed brain; another blow-dry head) who interviewed Sharpton just after the speech called it, to Sharpton's face, a "riff on whatever it was you were riffing on up there."
How do these people keep their jobs? Is it because nobody else wants to vie for "National Village Idiot"?
P.S. Krugman has some wonderful things to say on this topic, too.
Kerry's speech, IMHO, got better as it went along. He's no Clinton; he didn't know when to pause and get the crowd behind him ("Dammit, people, this is live TV! We've got a schedule to keep! I'm not talking to you, I'm talking to the cameras!"), but he got better as he went along.
And I loved the strong Vietnam veteran theme (Tucker Carlson this afternoon was lamenting all the attention now being given to that war. Heh heh.). Let's see Bush crawfish on that issue. Even Bob Novak won't be able to dismiss his service as "only four months," again.
This post topic reminds of the play 'Waiting for Lefty'
Steve in CO,
Yeah' it's a troll, and that's all it's got.
Lynne-- yes, that's the fellow-- google rockridge institute -- that's his site
so what the f--- is coulter gonna say tomorrow?
rad ray
I think she missed the speech; I heard she was shut out of the Fleet Ctr. after she stepped outside to score some meth off a protester.
hey I'm in Dayton . . . what gives with all the attention? Even Big John gives a shout out with a nod to the Wright Brothers.
Voted for Bush so they could keep their assault weapons but lost their jobs instead.....?
Isn't it ironic? Don't ya think?
Well, apparently the Kerry camp listened to the guy, because I caught positive memes all OVER the place all week.
One of the benefits of being a C-SPAN junkie every night since the start of the convention. Who'd have thunk it?
I can't wait to try and turn my mom into a Kerry voter. I relish the challenge.
chica t,
She was trying to sell it to a protester.
Ahh...fan the flames, fan the flames.
Kerry Bitches!!!!!
hey I'm in Dayton . . . what gives with all the attention? Even Big John gives a shout out with a nod to the Wright Brothers.
Robburrito
Swing state, buddy. You're sounding kinda complacent--GET TO WORK! 
Philalethes-
check out the work and thought of George Lakoff
Familiar with him already, but thanks for thinking of it...that's good advice! Anyone who hasn't read him should. Good interview with him on file at Buzzflash, too.
Lynne- did you catch the replay on CSpan of the "take Back America" rally the other morning-- with Bob Reich, Howard Dean, Carl Pope, Michael Moore, and the guy who started the Apollo Alliance?
great to see those guys (alas, all guys)
in front of a small, adoring crowd...
invigorating!
Does this mean Hillary is not the nominee?
'Cause if it's true, I have to go over to the Iowa Electronic Markets and dump some shares.
Loved this site....Commentary on Dubya's State of the Union.
http://angelfire.com/ny5/dnc/
inh...nhisownwords.rm
Can you trust a man to run a country when he can't even drop balloons on time?
As opposed to someone who drops bombs way before it's time? Yeah, right, you trolling twunt.
did i tell you today was the first day i donated to kerry?!! i was so happy. $$ is tight, but had to do it in celebration!
we must never be complacent again. never trust a repug with our country. they can have the house, just not the presidency.
my kids just may get a better america than i did...
Philalethes wrote:
"I think Bush is going to have an incredibly hard time climbing out of the frame Kerry put him in tonight. The only thing that comes naturally to him is spite and sneering, and that's not going to do the trick at this late date."
That's putting into better words what I said to my spouse (who was listening to Kerry with a sh**-eating grin, and I don't think it was because of MY fascinating presence).
Bush can either say "Me too" and admit that he's a flip-flopper who takes his policy from Democrats, or he can say "I'm not going to do any of that good stuff."
Go to it Chimpy Stuttermeister.
I think I'm really liking Ron Reagan Jr.
In spite of his genes. He's kind of a sensible, likeable guy.
Latest AOL poll:
How would you rate Kerry's speech?
Excellent 57%
Poor 17%
Fair 14%
Good 11%
Who would do a better job as president?
John Kerry 63%
George Bush 37%
Total Votes: 59,315
Bush is done!
Pic of Barbara Bush hit by huge red ballon at 1992 GOP convention
A priceless photo. Scroll down for large size.
>Did you guys see the crawl that the new Zogby poll has Kerry up 48% to 43%?
See link at 2.004k
"what the fuck is coulter going to say tomorrow?"
i'm sure her routine will not change. she will regain consciousness at the usual time, try in vain to identify the fellow in her bed, and curse herself for being such a filthy whore. around this time she will remember that sweet cocaine always brings comfort and will proceed to pack her beak. then she will head over to o'reilly's place and hang out there until even he can't stand her any more until he kicks her out. she will then curse herself for being a spent piece of used jet trash, but will suddenly remember that sweet cocaine always brings comfort and will pack her beak some more. this will go on for a week or so until she finally passes out with some guy. then it will start all over again. every month or so she will eat a chicken wing.
that aol poll is scary!! to good to be true?
or is america slowly waking up and yawning?
God Bless Mr.Max Cleland. He bridged the chasm of perspective of having served with valor and protesting with patriotism.
Max Cleland for Homeland Security! The man has the moxie and credentials.
He can correct diebold real quick with the patriot act.
"The only thing that comes naturally to [Bush] is spite and sneering, and that's not going to do the trick at this late date."
Hurrah!
"Bush is going to have an incredibly hard time climbing out of the frame Kerry put him in tonight."
Hurrah!
olaf glad and big, that was fvcking priceless. loved it.
Olaf glad and big:
BWHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA.... sigh.
thanks for that
I don't have any desire to watch the replay tonite. It must have been a good speech.
Robburrito wrote:
hey I'm in Dayton . . . what gives with all the attention? Even Big John gives a shout out with a nod to the Wright Brothers.
Hello there. I'm in Dayton too, and did you hear the Ohio delegation do a sort of woo-woo when Kerry honored the bicycle shop brothers? It's kind of nice being in a battleground state. But we have to deliver.
THAT PIC WAS HILARIOUS!!
Ah, just a few more months... I can hack, I can hack... cough, gurgle, splurt!! I can hack, goddamnit!
I think we just had a big success here tonight-we got through the convention with no last minute terror scare or Osama distraction, or protest violence fiasco. Many great speeches-Kerry's was even better than Edwards,IMO, as it should be. Thanks to all for letting me be part of it, although I'm a newbie here
Goodnight all!
I watched the speech with a dozen other people at a Kerry house party in Denver. There wasn't a dry eye in the house. (Okay, the guys just blew their noses, but still.)
We watched it on CNN. They had the same mike problem at the beginning of the feed (not with bad language), so they should have been able to fix it had they been paying attention.
Dick,
Don't drop your Clinton shares, the whole convention is part of Hillary's scheme to take over the presidency. She's tricked Kerry and Edwards into giving great speeches and taking the lead on Bush. Soon she'll murder them and declare herself queen. Have I ever been wrong?
this is turning into a week of miracles.
Our handy man and his bro came by on Monday to do a little work. I'd given them $ to go see F 9/11 and have a pizza a couple of weeks ago. Pointed out that both of them were young enough and had skills the Army was looking for and maybe they should think about voting this year. Both showed me their registration cards they'd gotten since last we met.
Two down, eight more non-voters to go on my personal score card.
It's been raining regular monsoon rains here for the better part of 3 weeks. The reservoir are more than half-full and the side oats grama on the side of the house is lush and green for the first time in more years than I can remember.
And my flat roofs haven't leaked. Not a drop. Thanks to my handy man and his bro.
and then Wes Clark gives the best damn speech I'd ever heard from him
and then the vets marched onto the stage - (oh George, where _are_ those comrades of your service days? -
and then John Kerry hit one over the Green Monster
yes, truly a week of miracles and redemption.
one last woo hoo for Wes Clark...
woo hoo!
nite, y'all
"so what the f--- is coulter gonna say tomorrow?"
That made me think. Always a good thing per some folks.
But I just realized a lot and I mean a lot of the media folk have their jobs on the line if Kerry wins and wins by wide margin. They will become immediately old school and put tp pasture.
Too bad that big red balloon wasn't a house dropping on her head.
Cause she's definitely the wicked witch.
There's a new Zogby poll that has Kerry up by six points and it was conducted BEFORE tonight's speech. With a bounce of a likely five points at least, Kerry and Edwards could have their cross-country tour enriched late tomorrow or on Saturday by the campaign's biggest lead, ten or eleven points, and with mighty mo besides.
It's the "looking at my watch" troll again. He said the same thing last night about Sharpton's speech. Or was it Edwards'?
Bush/Cheney 2004:
Because This Time, Failure Is An Option.
Oh Babs, the bug-eyed bitch - that was priceless.
funny how you people don't get something even when your told what it's about.
Christ, I'm positively giddy! What a great night. Seeing Barbara Boxer smack down that twit Carlson just now on CNN was priceless.
No sleep tonight I'm afraid.
Athenae, you wanna dance?
how soon before we start seeing 60/40 or even (gasp) dare I say 70/30 polls in Kerry's favor? 60/40 I say for real, next week... 70/30 maybe never.
Just saw this from an earlier thread--referring to Bush's convention speech in 2000:
"...everything voming out of his mouth..."
Gee, Bill, I've figured out the Master Plan.
You've got the NYT column, so I'll give it to you, and you run with it....
Here it is -- After Kerry's boffo Boston gig, Hillary will stampede the Republican convention, drawing on her NY home court advantage to take the crown from the mortally wounded (politically) President.
I'm gonna hold those shares after all.
who gives a shit about ballons? why don't they discuss what the speakers said? tucker carlson needs to get laid.
Speaking of Lakoff...jeez, I just watched "Outfoxed." What a nightmare. This might seem weird to some of you, but I'd actually never really seen Fox broadcasts before! I've heard audio clips, read transcripts, but never watched it.
And obviously the "framing" thing is going on there, but there's so much more. I have to say that the Repub understanding of the subconscious gets more profound all the time, and Fox really puts Goebbels and Riefenstahl to shame.
One thing that staggered me is that when O'Reilly's doing his "note for today" or whatever it is...he's talking, and what he's saying is being PARAPHRASED INEXACTLY in a box next to his head, and then there's the news crawl down below. So you've got three inputs going at once. What that is, essentially, is a form of hypnotism...it's going to distract and disengage rational cognition to the point that information can go in under the radar, as it were.
At which point, what Fox essentially does is serve up imagery that's "true" only in the sense that the Evil Stepmother in a fairytale is true. And the presentation of these images is just completely going to bypass the conscious mind, in a hell of a lot of people. Particularly because they have to do with subrational childhood feelings and fears about mothers, fathers, guilt, punishment, sexual insecurity...and stuff like that.
Anyway, of course I knew they were propagandists...but I had no idea they were attacking people's brains quite as literally and physically as this, in ways that go so far beyond ordinary rhetoric or imagery. I found it absolutely terrifying. I guess it's old news to most of ya, I guess...but I don't get any TV stations, so I'm the last to know!
To conclude:
...everything voming out of his mouth reads like a new word--voming/to vome, a process wherein vomit flies out of the mouth of those who see life as spoils, impact(s) be damned.
+++
does anyone know what the CNN thing that Josh Marshall is alluding to is all about?
I think it was what he needed.
Hes defined himself and the future is bright . I loved the passion .
Hes always been underrated on his speaking abilities IMO.
philateles, i've never watched a full program on fox either. not on the cable channel anyway. i have tried, but they hurt my eyes, probably because of what you mentioned.
Philalethes, I just watched Outfoxed for the second time today myself. It is truly horrifying on so many levels. Media Matters is running a campaign to force FOX to drop the "fair and balanced" tag. Drop by and sign on if you have a chance.
i lived in ma in 1984 and kerry was actually the first senate candidate i ever voted for. i liked him then and i liked him during iran contra. that is what the right hates him for the most, btw. iran contra.
I hope Josh isn't on about the damn balloons. I'm trying to find some pictures to nullify any GOP attempt (including Ann Skeletor, Wolfie and Woodruffs) from quippy metaphors.
Woot could do much better.
"When I turned to my wife to ask the time I realized she had been lulled to sleep by Kerry's speech."
Nah, she was just pretending, so she wouldn't have to have clammy, unsatisfying sex with you.
Same as she does every night.
how soon before we start seeing 60/40 or even (gasp) dare I say 70/30 polls in Kerry's favor? 60/40 I say for real, next week... 70/30 maybe never.
The asshole/Neanderthal voters will forever hold steady at 40% for a Republican President regardless of the ill he causes to the country. That is just simply a fact of our American life.
I do love to see Bush at 43% with 8% still undecided (Zogby). I can't believe that Bush will be able to get more than 3-4% of the undecideds to break back his way.
it's a beautiful day. don't let it slip away...
saturday, 11:00AM, Greensburg PA, anyone in the area, Kerry, Edwards, will be here--come out and show them you were listening (Greensburg is enemy territory outside PGH...well, actually, let's make that NOT be enemy territory anymore--let's go be friendly and optomistic and invite them to come along.)
yow! john hendry! i was starting to feel bad about being too hard on these worthless turds on the right! now i'm back in the spirit.
i have tried, but they hurt my eyes, probably because of what you mentioned.
OMG, it's absolutely mind-destroying. And I didn't even get into Colmes...I'd heard him speak of course, but I'd never actually seen him in action. What they've done there is incredible: They've created this homunculus version of the "typical liberal" that NO ONE can view without feeling an almost spiritual revulsion...but then, instead of condemning him as "anti-American scum," they sort of coddle him, as though he were a mangy kitten they'd found in a dumpster and didn't have the heart to send to the pound. At one point, Hannity calls him "a GOOD liberal." And then Colmes repeats the words and pats himself on the head with the most repellent, servile, subhuman look on his face.
It's a fucking freak show, is what it is. It's so much worse than I ever dreamed.
Syd Barrett
asshole voters?
People are assholes because they don't believe what you do?
Will Farrell doing Bush for ACT. Definitely has the funny:
http://www.kintera.org/atf/cf/
{0...AIGHTTALKHI.ASX
(copy and paste the link into your browser)
MSNBC poll
If the presidential election were held this week, who would you vote for? * 218693 responses
George W. Bush
35%
John Kerry
62%
Ralph Nader
2%
Another thought I had watching Outfoxed was that CNN sounds and acts more like FOX every day.
Olaf glad and big - You're right about Iran Contra. And doesn't it just make him the perfect president after this administration? He's spent his career trying to untangle the illegal mess that has been Repuglican foreign relations. They should be worried.
well, we can see that the Post is still whoring for Bushco.
let's see if they're nearly this hard on Shrub when he stumbles through his speech.
Drop by and sign on if you have a chance.
Zombiebirdhouse
Will do!
But seriously...it's not just me having this reaction, right? That station really does go beyond propaganda, and beyond lying, and literally attacks brain function at the subconscious level by exploiting its weak spots...as though it were trying to take control of a computer by hacking Internet Explorer's security flaws? 'Cause that's really how I saw it. I want to know how many neurologists and psychologists they have as consultants.
Whatever happened to Dr. Jose Delgado, anyway?
The studies that showed that people who relied exclusively on FOX were more likely to be ill-informed on most issues were fascinating but not surprising.
Did you love the guy that outfoxed O'Reilly?
Just got this from TrueMajority:
Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell has blocked further deployment of paperless voting machines.
I just got home an hour ago from a great night out. I'm listening to the speech replayed on C-Span now and I can say to all those who are still awake, this is the first time in my life that I am truly proud to have served my country.
For the first time, with this Band of Brothers, I feel like I'm finally home.
I think a producer or some CNN worker got caught saying a bunch of bad words when the balloons didnt drop as expected and it was live.
watching the replay on C-SPAN, I noticed the yellow "Livestrong" wristband that JFK was wearing. they mentioned on the Tour de France last week that they became very popular when folks wearing them tended to win the daily stages. I'm taking this as a good sign, especially since aWol isn't wearing one
That fucking Tom Curry article at MSNBC--the one on the page with the poll--is truly nauseating.
What are these journalists fighting for, at this point? What CONCEIVABLE positive virtue could they see in the continuation for four more years of an OBJECTIVELY failed presidency?
I understand wanting a dictator, or wanting a national father-figure, or wanting a guy who'll kick ass and take names. I don't want any of those things, but I can understand why someone would. But I don't understand wanting wanting someone who FAILS at each of these roles...at that point, I may as well be following politics on Mars for all the sense it makes to me.
Bless you, cosmic grappler.
Welcome home.
Phila--re: FauxNews and psycho mojo, my friend's the chair of the psych dept. at a local college here, and he says he's never ever seen such use of subliminal, psych-based crap used in the media, and moreso by politicians, ever (he's 58.) i'm not saying Rupurt's some kind of Jedi master, but it's all very similar to standard advertising practices.
they keep people afraid, and they tell them "nothing YOU can do--just go shopping," while putting themselves up as the protective daddy who can save them. even when they start to think they've been fooled, it's tough to let that go, admit you were tricked, realize the people you thought would protect you, won't? ...it's like the American electorate has battered wife syndrome. not easy to help someone through...
dubya = duped
(lifted that from a woman on one of Tweety's focus groups last night...well, she just said "duped"...and i immediately saw that as equal to "dubya")
philateles, i will tell you a true story. my father was a journalist his entire working life. a print journalist. when i was growing up he taught me to have a healthy skepticism about what i saw on tv or read in the paper. somewhere along the line he started listening to rush, watching fox pretty much all the time. now he is a complete and utter moron as far as current events goes. he's not that old either. doesn't have alzheimer's or anything. believes every single republican spin point he hears. it is obviously very powerful. of course it didn't help that my mom finally got him trained to be a fundamentalist christian, either.
Pollster Frank Lutz was on MSNBC. When he asked his focus group if Kerry did better than expected, almost everyone of them raised their hands. Kerry also scored extremely high for his economic plan
Pollster Frank Lutz was on MSNBC. When he asked his focus group if Kerry did better than expected, almost everyone of them raised their hands. Kerry also scored extremely high for his economic plan
It may be hopeless, but I'm going to try to get some sleep. Thanks to all of you Eschatonians for sharing a wonderful night.
¡Hasta mañana!
Wow. If all drudge can do is to pick on the balloon drop, then I'm making my hotel reservation for DC now. Today.
Kerry went post-speech to a concert and fireworks across town from the convention. People were freakin' cheering the motorcade. Amazin'
Librarian..thanks for the info. As I said, I do think it goes a bit beyond the standard advertising model and into PHYSICAL abuse of the brain...but it's one of those cases where if I'm wrong, I'm glad.
Olaf...sad story. I'm sorry to hear it. It's important to remember that these people are not just ruining our country, not just sending kids to die for no reason...they're also literally tearing families apart. Never mind the red/blue state division...they're tearing millions of parents and children and brothers and sisters apart. For money.
Syd Barrett
asshole voters?
People are assholes because they don't believe what you do?
John Lynch | Email | Homepage | 07.30.04 - 1:20 am | #
Yeah, John, that is exactly fucking right.
Why? How do you define "asshole"?
cosmic, i actually thought of you (and other people i know) during the time when they were honoring the swift boat crews, believe it or not. i figured you would appreciate it. apparently those guys were all enlisted men who had nothing but good things to say about their lt. as i understand it you have to earn that. there is no other way. not available in stores.
Karl, have you changed your shorts yet? And why did I name you after Karl Marx, and not Carl Junior?
For the first time, with this Band of Brothers, I feel like I'm finally home.
cosmic grappler
Welcome home, bud. As the kid of another vietnam vet (now passed away) may I say, on the behalf of a grateful nation, thank you for your service.
What a night! I am so stoked!
2 Johns - 1 nation
Go Kerry/Edwards!
why does it feel like New Year's Eve? feels like i could stay up all night!
"it's time for those who talk about family values, to start valuing families!"
(that clip made MSNBpravda, as well as "back-door draft.")
People are assholes because they don't believe what you do?
Let me just say this:
Don't be an asshole.
Vote Democratic.
I thought it was interesting that after supposedly vetting everyone elses speeches for attacks on Bush, Kerry took the preznit on himself. Truth and dignity in the White House, not relying on the Saudi royal family, a president who believes in science, etc.
As if to respond to the accusation of waffling by saying fine, let me be the one to explain why Bush needs to go, with specifics and in no uncertain terms. As if they very cleverly had Kerry prove he was ready to lead the country by taking on the sitting president himself.
And the issues he used - the lack of honsety and lust for war, the coziness with the Saudis, and stem cell research, are ones which resonate with all voters, not just democrats. And to finish it off with a religious comparison of humility vs. arrogance.
Strong and direct, rational not emotional, humble not arrogant. Mr. President, you're fired!
Olaf,
Leaders earn respect, especially in the field. For these men to stand with their commander, ready at our advanced ages to go back under fire if led by this man, well, I was moved to tears, and would sign up for another tour if he asked me to go.
I never thought I'd say that. Ever.
I appreciate that you thought of me. Thank you.
The Band of Brothers is Awesome. They're on a mission from God. Can't tell which I like better, Jake or Elwood.
Yeah, I am a democrat and earlier I posted a sarcastic remark making fun of a fellow democrats lack of enthusiasm for the great speeches at this convention. The sarcasm got by Phila's pristine brain and he attacked me as a troll. I clarified the position and the attacks kept coming.
Bless you, cosmic grappler.
Welcome home.
Indeed!
I have always supported our troops, it's the guv-ment I don't support.
As for the Kerry Iran-contra thing...I think he is on dangerous ground,if anyone can expose the dirty deals behind the then and now fiasco's he (Kerry) can. Which make him a target for the vast wrongwing conspiracy. After all, it's the same criminals then as now and they are quite dangerous.
Karin at 12:55 -- actually, it seems there was an attempt at a terror scare. (I'd posted this on an earlier thread, but since you mentioned the subject, I thought I'd slap the link in here -- apologies to anyone who's seen this already.)
http://tinyurl.com/3pakm
There was that article a while back about how they might, instead of cancelling the elections, just scare people in western states. Looks like they couldn't wait that long. Doesn't seem to have been much of a distraction, though.
Uh oh...Cheney cancelling gigs? From Minn:
Dick Cheney won't be making a stop in Moorhead next week, contrary to earlier reports the vice president would likely make a campaign appearance Friday at Concordia College.
On Thursday, Phyllis Onsgard, chairwoman for the Bush-Cheney campaign in Clay County, said the visit is off for now.
I'm sure somebody will show up, she continued.
Yeah, I am a democrat and earlier I posted a sarcastic remark making fun of a fellow democrats....
My advice?
Pick a handle besides "Anonymous" and stick with it. It helps sort the grain from the chaff, if you get my drift.
the whole media spin was always bullshit. i watched him for several years when he was my senator, plus he does tend to run for president a lot, and the no charisma/flip flopper thing was always bullshit. but kerry just strung them along, i think. lulled them into a false sense of security. now the media whores are standing there with made up profile of john kerry which obviously doesn't make a lick of sense.
Cheney is cancelling campaign stops?
Oh, man, that can't be good.
Buckle your seatbelts, friends, and stand by for shit to get ugly.
Conservatives keep waiting for Dems to lose the union base.
phila--sorry, but you probably aren't wrong about them going even further, i'm just saying that i'm not quite prepared to believe that it is all that intentional or organized, it's more that all this psych stuff has been bleeding into advert people for a while now, so they don't think of it as "hypnotizing," they think of it as "branding" (or whatever.) it IS bad news though, intentional or not.
that's something we all need to reverse--this dumbing down of the national conversation, to the point where it isn't even words anymore. i thought the "Jeb!" stickers in FLA were as bad as it could get, then i started seeing the "W!" stickers...
it's turning into a Dr. Suess book..."Glorpers!" no, "Frinklets!"
bush literally isn't even in the same league as kerry. i was thinking that if this campaign was a fight they would have to stop it, but really i think w would be disqualified at the weighing in.
watching Kerry again on C-SPAN. Great speech!!!!
Jon Stewart sure laid the smack down on the cable news channels, especially MSNBC. There's something really offensive about watching a bunch of smug, rich, white conservative SOBs dissing a black man who's preachin' it. I wonder what they would have said about King 40 years ago (not that Sharpton should be compared to King...)
The parallels between JFK 1 and JFK 2 are pretty amazing... both Massachusetts Democrats who piloted a boat in a war, both injured in combat, both Catholic, both with the initials JFK and remarkable, big hair...
let's hope the similarities cease after 2 November, and that JFK 2 stays away from Dallas...
i'm not usually one for bumper stickers, but i think i might get one of those "no fear" ones (do they still sell them?) and a kerry /edwards '04 one. plus maybe a calvin pissing on a W.
Cheney is supposed to be here in Phoenix tomorrow. In fact, ACT has a little surprise for the Goopers... I wonder if he's gonna show...
What's the Bush/Rove Strategy for the RNC ?
How can they outdo the DNC convention with all that positive energy when all they have is a wheelbarrow of crap ?
Watching Kerry embrace his fellow veterans all I could think was "Wow! This guy is really big!" This will probably be disguised in the debates, but Kerry could stuff Bush in one of his pockets.
RE: Cheney--It gets better! From the AP:
"Two presidential advisers, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Bush would offer broad outlines of his re-election agenda on what Republicans are billing as the "Heart and Soul of America" tour. "
I wonder what they would have said about King 40 years ago...
Hell, I'll say it.They would have called him a n_____ at best.
Like it or not, we haven't come that far, people.
There's something really offensive about watching a bunch of smug, rich, white conservative SOBs dissing a black man who's preachin' it.
a huge amount of the coverage I've seen has been shameful, a big bag of steaming shit sold to us as commentary.
Really, is this the best we can do?
I saw Fred Barnes earlier and he couldn't wrap his tiny brain around the fact that we were attacked on 9/11 and that's why Kerry's support for going after OBL is different from his post Cold War budget votes. Jesus, and someone is paying this dim shit six figures to go on TV and talk out of his ass?
I'd do it for less than that. Jesus, I could do it drunk and not be any worse.
bad jim, that what they mean when they say kerry "looks french".
"looks french"=makes bush look like a fucking midget.
I'm coming to the belief that we are going to see a tectonic political shift over the next 2-3 election cycles that will leave the GOP in a shambles. And I think this Democratic Convention might well be considered the beginning of the transformation.
The amount of Democratic talent on display at this convention was awesome. Great bench...great message...the Party's beginning to show the Right Stuff that can connect with "middle America". And the party is showing itself capable of having a rousing internal debate and then pulling together to deal with the real bad guys.
I'm feeling more hope about our political future than I have in a long time...even more than I did when Clinton first came into office.
I love Ron Reagan's assessment of W: "My father shit bigger ones that that."
"And the issues he used - the lack of honsety and lust for war, the coziness with the Saudis, "
What was good about the way he put the Saudi thing is that it works for people who *know* about the Bush family's coziness with the Saudi royals, but it *also* works for people who only know we're too damn dependent on them, or who *do* know about the Bush family connections but don't think that is a big problem compared to the broader issue of dependence on the Saudis.
"i wonder what they would have said about king 40 years ago."
no need to wonder. they said it. said he was a communist, said he was an outside agitator. said he was unpatriotic, then they murdered him.
oh, and my guest, Shawn, who is an actor, says Kerry came across very well in that respect--he says B+/A- over all...which i think is exactly the right mark to hit, under the circumstances--not TOO polished, not TOO rehearsed, believable, a guy you could relate to but better at public speaking than you would be, etc.
but as someone else said upthread--now the work REALLY begins, now it will get seriously ugly (although jeebus, after the fake Fonda pics, the mis-quotes from his Vietnam senate testimony,
and the made-up intern scandal...what the heck is left? yeah, i probably should NOT even ask!)
do we have the energy left to go for three more months?
Kerry's not as dazzling verbally as Clinton or Obama but he definitely came across as "Presidential" and "in control."
I see that the right-wing press is trying to bait Kerry on his line about "responding" to terror. The subtext is Iran. Kerry should corner Bush on Iran.
Mr. President, what do *you* intend to do about Iran?
The neocons are starting to beat the drum to go into Iran exactly the way they were doing it for Iraq a few years ago.
I'd like to see Kerry flush them out. Make Bush take a position. Don't let them bait the Democrats on "pre-emption" without coming out and saying they're for it themselves.
"So, Dr. King, tell us why you were riffing on whatever you were riffing on there in Washington on the Mall."
well Olaf, I meant the media bobbleheads, not The Man.
bad jim, that what they mean when they say kerry "looks french".
I'd love to see the typical Freeper go up to Mark Messier and taunt him with the charge of "looking French."
Fred Barnes ? He is just about the "dumbest motherfucker on the planet" - to borrow an apt phrase from Gen. Tommy Franks (although he was talking about Doug Feith.) Barnes isn't just a hack journalist, he's a walking, talking, typing sleeping pill.
brucds,
I'm old enough to remember when we Democrats lost our way in '72, and I've said for years that if the GOP let the Christian right take over their party, they would live to regret it.
What was that Santayana said about the ignorant being doomed to repeat history?
Watching Guliani on Hannity. I have a hard time understanding why he is stumping so hard for Bush.
"Heart and Soul of America" tour. "
Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
That's really funny, coming from 2 guys where one has a faulty heart and the other one doesn't have a soul cause he sold it to the devil long ago.
Maybe they'll be like a really creepy zombie version of the tin man and the scarecrow out looking for missing body parts.
can't sleep...too excited.
What the CNN is this:
Kerry pledges to use force when necessary with or without help
quote -"Senator John Kerry, gearing to slug it out with George W. Bush for the White House, pledged to beef up US forces and take military action alone if necessary to protect the country. "
"...in the debates..."
HAHAH You think they'll let King Chimpy debate Kerry? They just can't program him that intensively.. it really is amazing, everytime I read a transcript of what he says... he's a charlatan at best.. at worst, well.. you decide..
And Cheney the other day says something to the effect of "I'm really excited to get out there now because I know who my opponent is." I say, if that's how you define yourself, based on your opponent.. you're in trouble, Dick.. You don't have a message of your own? Oh, fear! That's right..
Tricky Dick Nixon's antics will look like Romper Room compared to what BushDickAssCo will pull to save their hides..
Can you imagine 4 more years of GW? My God, can you imagine!!?!?!
I'd hope God has more work to do here on Earth before he calls us ALL home..
I wouldn't get too optimistic just yet, brucds...
but it will be interesting to see how the RNC goes. I sure hope we get a lot more from where Jerry Falwell comes from, along with plenty of shameless manipulation of 9/11.
librarian, kerry will need our support, but the real john kerry-- not the fake flip flopper/ whiney veteran john kerry invented by the gop-- is tougher than fucking barbed wire and is smart as hell.
I dare any Freeper to make fun of this guy for "looking French.
Watching Guliani on Hannity. I have a hard time understanding why he is stumping so hard for Bush.
perhaps he wants to get back in the game and he knows the only way to do it is suck up to the top dogs...
Rudy may have been a hero on 9/11 and after (he showed us what a REAL leader does in a crisis), but I still won't forget what came before that, all the innocent black men gunned down by the cops and he didn't give a shit.
I've never put a yard sign out or a bumper sticker on my car, but this year I proudly have both:
Veteran for Kerry.
The sign's been stolen three times. But I bought a shitload, just in case.
Guiliani is a self absorbed tool...
thank you, carry on.
Didn't he leave the game due to a severe health problem?
yeah but isn't he past it now???
if not then, yeah, why IS he sucking up to Bush big-time? Giuliani was always a sort of moderate Gooper, other than the law-and-order stuff. Gay tolerant and pro-choice.
The sign's been stolen three times. But I bought a shitload, just in case.
cosmic grappler
hopefully to used in someone else's yard, but considering the level of dirty tricks from the repugs....
so I wonder which of the bloggers up in the nosebleed section was accidently standing on the balloon tripwire ;}
"shameless manipulation of 9/11."
i don't understand why the republicans consider 9/11 to be some sort of feather in their cap. i guess it would be if they had quickly tracked down osama & co, but they didn't. as far as i can tell it still goes in the black eye column.
How dare this guy be French AND from Massachussetts
UnAmerken
cosmic, i bet the theft rate will go down dramatically soon.
I'm off to bed, very happy.
I'll deal with the negative talking heads tomorrow.
Pat Buchanan on MSNBC is gushing about Kerry's speech. He loved it.
good night, cosmic, and welcome home.
if not then, yeah, why IS he sucking up to Bush big-time? Giuliani was always a sort of moderate Gooper, other than the law-and-order stuff. Gay tolerant and pro-choice.
renato
prostate cancer knocked him out in the 2000 Senate race, but I'm guessing he wants a chance to go after HRC again in 2006. why he's hitching his wagon to a sinking ship is beyond me, though
Willie Nelson, bitches!
Hey, "Anonymous":
Nothing would give me greater pleasure than hearing the sound of you gagging on my semen.
(It seems that something about you brings out the latent homosexual tendancies in me. Maybe it is because you're a "punk" . . . . .)
On another note . . .
I'm glad all went well tonight with the Kerry speech. But at this point, it's hard for me to be enthusiastic about a Kerry victory. It would be nice to believe that the guy has somehow been reborn as some sort of a progressive. However--and I hope he proves me wrong should he become President--about the only really positive things I can say about him is that he is not Bush and he seems to have at least learned about some of the buzzwords and phrases that connect with the hardcore Democratic base.
The Democratic Party as a whole has so dropped the ball over the last few years when it comes to standing up to Bush and standing up for progressive principles that they have a long way to go before I can once again feel any real enthusiasm for them. At this point, my support of them and John Kerry is strictly a "lesser of two evils" sort of phenomenon.
As they say, "talk is cheap" and "actions speak louder than words." Hopefully, in the months and years ahead I will be able to sincerely and enthusiastically cheer John Kerry and the rest of the Democratic Party.
Please God, let it be so.
Olaf--you are right. but even if HE does not need us, WE need to stand up and be counted.
i know it's a little corny, but back in the primaries when they misquoted Kerry's post-Vietnam Senate testimony, i went and found the volumes in the stacks, and read the whole thing (around 30 pages--in fact, i think excerpts and the citation were the first thing i ever posted here.) i was so moved, that someone THAT YOUNG could say what he said, how he said it--he did NOT HAVE TO GO, and when he came back, he DID NOT have to speak up--i made copies and handed them around to a dozen people at least, begging them to read it.
NOT to say that who you are as a 19 or 25 year old person is who you are at 50 or 60, but, then again, it says *something* about the core of who you are. no doubt there may have been some ambition or ego in the mix that moved him to place himself out front as he did back then, but, holy heck, *I* was a totally useless selfish little SHIT at that age...you know? anyway, he had me in 1972, i guess is what i'm saying. and sure, 20 years in the Senate can do wonders to screw your priorities up, but, somehow, at some basic level, i REALLY believe he's got some honest heart left...
(maybe Librarian has had one too many beers this evening!)
giuliani was not a hero on 9/11 anyway. i would put his activities in the category of "fairly decent behavior by a politician".
i don't understand why the republicans consider 9/11 to be some sort of feather in their cap.
it was their Reichstag fire... and all they had to do was let it happen. Didn't even have to plan it.
I think I'm going to start flying my assortment of early American flags again. When the war started I flew a black pennant, and lately I've just been flying a black-and-white raven flag, except on national holidays. Now, though, there's a glimmer of hope. For the moment I don't feel ashamed of being American.
Help is on the way.
Jonathan and Deepthought 42.
Thanks for your comments on the earlier thread, saying that acceptance speeches are not usually for detailed policy prescriptions, that we could win the Congress, and that the rest of the world is likely to be pulling for Kerry.
I don't disagree with any of those points.
But consider what happens if the GOP just retains control of the House. That's the lunatic wing, with Tom DeLay in charge. No tax cuts can be repealed. The deficits continue to spiral up. Interest rates start rising. Growth stops. Unemployment starts rising. By the time Wall Street sends in the goons to put Tom DeLay out of our misery, things could get very bad.
There are things Kerry can do. There's maybe $200B in corporate welfare that he can expose and try to force Congress to cut. He can sic the Justice Department on Halliburton and on defense contractors and maybe get back some of the money they have looted from the Treasury. He could even pull a Nixon and impound funds for currency landfill projects like Star Wars. But if Congress is determined to be stupid, they get at least one election to do so.
I think Kerry needs to win more than an election. He has to win the argument. By the time he takes office, it has to be conventional wisdom that the tax cuts are going to be repealed. THEN let the lunatic wing try to march the lemmings over the cliff. They'll blow up the GOP.
The only way to win the argument is to lay out the case and get the American people seriously excited about cutting the deficit. As the GOP makes the case that "raising taxes" will cause mass unemployment.
It's a hard sell.
But maybe he can do it. I hope so. Our future depends on it.
Pat Buchanan on MSNBC is gushing about Kerry's speech. He loved it.
Heh. Buchanan loathes the Bushes. If he had any of that Reform Party money he swooped on in 2000, he'd be running again this year. I wish he were!
no, librarian, he does need us. i may have typed it wrong. i have only been watching him since 84 and i always thought he was a good senator. until this campaign i never realized the extent of his anti war activities in the early 70s. i only respected him more the more i learned about them.
=====
Hey, "Anonymous":
Nothing would give me greater pleasure than hearing the sound of you gagging on my semen.
(It seems that something about you brings out the latent homosexual tendancies in me. Maybe it is because you're a "punk" . . . . .)
=====
Please elaborate.. this sounds exciting!
Regarding my prediction of the limited future of the Republicans - The GOP is already scrambling to show up in NYC in drag...
As for the longer term future...and my "premature optimism"...who's the rising star in the GOP ? Arnold ? Who's the new star of the Democrats ? Obama ! Can you imagine a debate between the two of them ?
America is about to choose between the integrity, intellect and ability to communicate of two men and, frankly, to choose Bush requires not just a leap of faith, but a strong element of ideological rigidity. Swing voters might act on faith, but I think the ideology is beginning to wear very thin with them. The ideology and the very, very questionable results on all fronts. Bush is starting to look like a very vulnerable figure...if not a sitting duck. And to complete the picture we've got the Edwards family vs. the Cheney family. It's like posing folks from Mayberry against the shadowy inhabitants of a "gated community" patrolled by Rottweillers.
Remember when the Democratic primaries were being lampooned as a raucous platform for "7 Dwarfs". Can you imagine any "pundit" this side of Savage or Coulter characterizing Kerry & Ewards as "dwarfs" coming out of this convention and facing off against Bush ?
Heh. Buchanan loathes the Bushes.
But does he like Kerry? He certainly loved Kerry's speech.
I have to confess I was fairly impressed too. I didn't think he was on Clinton or Obama's level but he really didn't have to be.
He's running for President not Chairman of the Oxford Union.
Guiliani did fine on 9-11 - compared to President Pet Goat. But Rudy was not at all beloved in NYC before that day.
And his 'state-of-the-art' emergency command center was way up on WTC 5 (fairly sure it was 5) -- the building that practically exploded because of all the diesel fuel for the generators.
Ed Koch is more beloved - and he's been a FNC tool for a while, hizzoner has. :b
Kerry gave us a picture of America unafraid, in control of its destiny. The Republicans only ever offer fear. That was the point of bicycling into the Russian sector - that childish fearlessness is something that too many of us have not only lost, but repudiated. Too many people wallow in their fearfulness; perhaps it excuses their failure, by giving them someone else to blame.
Remember when the Democratic primaries were being lampooned as a raucous platform for "7 Dwarfs". Can you imagine any "pundit" this side of Savage or Coulter characterizing Kerry & Ewards as "dwarfs" coming out of this convention and facing off against Bush ?
Kerry has to find some way in the debates to stand next to Bush.
Bush is 5'10" or 5'11" and Kerry would literally dwarf him.
Maybe go up and shake his hand and then embrace him in a gesture of manly good sportsmanship.
It would look like Dean standing next to Bill Bradley.
psst... let's win the election before we start debating about how much of a liberal Kerry will be.
Truth is, he won't be able to do much more than steer towards the center if he doesn't get a Democratic House or Senate.
BTW, about lemmings... they don't really march over a cliff in mass suicide. That was one of the greatest hoaxes ever perpetrated by a nature 'documentary' back in the 50s. I have a link somewhere on that...
here it is
I remember watching White Wilderness as a kid. I was duped. Damn. Makes me wish I'd kept all my history textbooks so I could look back and see how much those lied to me too.
Odds that Bush will lose Texas? Any chance of making inroads against whatever it is that holds the minds of the people in these parts?
I'm a local to north Texas for 20 years but I still don't get it.. Kool-Aid is all I can think of..
I'm not sure how Buchanan feels about Kerry, but as they say, the enemy of my enemy is my friend...
I got up this morning to see Kerry's speech (I am living in Europe), flipped on the tv, and the military news channel is showing BET instead of coverage of the convention. They have been showing exclusively Fox News coverage of the convention, but now they aren't even showing that. Fortunately I have Atrios to find out the real story...Now I am off to CSpan.org to listen to Kerry's speech.
I'll go on record as liking and respecting Pat Buchanan. I'm way,way to his left. (I generally describe myself as a social democrat.) But he's an authentic conservative and his American Conservative magazine has run some of the best analytical articles critical of the war that I've read.
Buchanan also has an appealing geniality and an ability to speak his version of the truth without fear or favor that puts him head and shoulders above any of the other pundits on the right (and many on the left).
it is absolutely inconceivable to me that anyone would vote for the current punk instead of kerry. i just cannot imagine it.
I got up this morning to see Kerry's speech (I am living in Europe), flipped on the tv, and the military news channel is showing BET instead of coverage of the convention. They have been showing exclusively Fox News coverage of the convention, but now they aren't even showing that. Fortunately I have Atrios to find out the real story...Now I am off to CSpan.org to listen to Kerry's speech.
Oh, and Pat Buchanan shits bigger ones than David Brooks.
5 minutes into the speech I found myself looking at my watch[...]
Anonymous
Hey, that's great. Most people never find themselves.
i think bush may be the republican carter in some ways
Well... I think we can now shift a little more focus on the House and Senate races. I believe Democratic majorities in both houses of Congress are within reach.
Watching speech replays now... JOEmentum up...what was that gawd awful version of Coming to America they played for him?
Don't even put Dubya in the same sentence with a great man like Jimmy Carter.
And now for something completely different:
U.S. lacks records for Iraq spending
U.S. civilian authorities in Baghdad failed to keep good track of nearly $1 billion in Iraqi money spent for reconstruction projects and can't produce records to show whether they got some services and products they paid for, anew audit concludes.
The former Coalition Provisional Authority paid nearly $200,000 for 15 police trucks without confirming they were delivered, and auditors have not located them, the report from the CPA's Inspector General said. Officials also didn't have records to justify the $24.7 million pricetag for replacing Iraqi currency which used to carry Saddam Hussein's portrait, the report said.
(snip)
The one-star general overseeing reconstruction contracts in Iraq said in response to the audit that the lack of documentation didn't prove the money was wasted.
uh. huh. suuuuuuuure.
I almost feel sorry for the spin meisters tonight. They KNOW they've got to come up with something for Rush/hannity and their minions by tomorrow. But what?? Must...think...Something plausible, not TOO negative... The gay thing didn't work, but something like it... Phoney is always good in a pinch.. Nobody likes phonies or rich people... Or jews! Yeah we'll go with the jew angle, oh, that's right we already did that, and his father turned out to be jewish...
Must THINK!!! Taxes... too esoteric... Must have a juicy topic, but WHAT??? Must review voting record, again... Must send someone to investigate his family, again... Where are those troopers who were so useful with Clinton??
etc...
"bush may be the republican carter" ???
Aside from the Crazy Islamists clouding both Presidential pictures, Bush's defeat won't be because his opponents cut a deal directly with America's overseas enemies in order to hijack the election. Another big difference is that it seems very unlikely I that Jesus has any particular affection for gw bush...
Oh, and Pat Buchanan shits bigger ones than David Brooks.
Pat the androgynous geek from Saturday Night Live shits bigger ones than Brooks.
Olaf--whether Kerry needs us or not, WE need US. because, as i *think* has been part of the message these past four days--it's about US, about We the People. what do WE want?
do we want some kind of return to a fundamentalist isolationist superstitious bloody dark age? do we want to repeal the Magna Carta? the Enlightenment? should we put scary foreign different people in jail? should we cower in fear?
or do we come together, embrace our opponants in honest debate, find the common ground, and move forward?
it isn't just the U.S. i've talked to people who've come here from countries in the middle east, and they are amazed that we don't see that their nut-jobs are pretty much the same as "our" nut-jobs (well, except that theirs seem to be a LOT more violent and murderous just now.) anyway, the secular, educated, middle class in Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, etc., are fighting the same fight we are fighting right now at home. we're just lucky that our tradition says we fight it out with votes, not machine guns.
this does not end if we win in November. all that means, is that we still have a fighting chance.
i just hope i can get some energy back by September--i've been ranting and researching and emailing and phoning and debating people on busses and in bars and at home and at work for like two freaking YEARS now...i'm tired!
know any good energy drinks?
i don't understand why the republicans consider 9/11 to be some sort of feather in their cap. i guess it would be if they had quickly tracked down osama & co, but they didn't. as far as i can tell it still goes in the black eye column.
Olaf glad and big
Nice one. Col. Cathcart personifies the Republican mindset.
wasn't that Lieberman speech DREADFUL?
the crowd shots... talk about polite golf applause.
Here comes Clark. I missed him this afternoon. Now I get to see it, yay!
I think candidate's wives and families should be off-limits for political attacks. In particular, the people confirming that W was right to call Laura a "lump in the bed" could not be more wrong. If W really thinks that, that says more about HIM than it does about LAURA, who's both passionate and inventive.
. . .
I mean, that's how I envision her being, because how would I know? That's what I mean.
Nov. 2 is my birthday. Happy birthday to me!
I really wanted Dean but after seeing Kerry's speech tonight I think the Iowa primary might have had the right outcome.
Kerry is going to get a lot of support if he projects that calm, phlegmatic quality and if the right keeps getting shriller.
Dean strikes you as the type who would roll up his sleeves and punch out the schoolyard bully but if the rigt gets more shrill people are going to want the principal to come out and calm things down.
Dallas got like thirteen inches of rain yesterday (or the day before). Lots of flooding. I know I shouldn't hope for tornados near Crawford, but it would be nice if our president were to be swirled Oz-wards for the next few millenia.
nice speech by Clark!
but whatever happens, in November, or after, my new mantra is: Obama. RNC--be afraid, be VERY afraid. that's been a LONG time a'coming...we shall overcome, one day. (i'd say, 4 to 12 years from now, as a matter of fact!)
wasn't that Lieberman speech DREADFUL?
Lieberman was soooooooo obviously bummed that he doesn't have a political future in the Democratic (or Republican) party.
He had to be looking at Obama and Dean and Clark and realizing that he'll never be on another presidential ticket.
He sucked but I felt sorry for him not angry.
I *almost* felt sorry for Lieberman.
Almost.
JOEmentum definitely continued moving in the same direction. Bleck. Even Albright's speech was better and more animated. I've never seen a career diplomat that could deliver a strong speech, but hers was better than Joe's
Clark's speech was excellent.
The sarcasm got by Phila's pristine brain and he attacked me as a troll. I clarified the position and the attacks kept coming.
Anonymous
Did I say you were a troll? No.
Do I care if you're a troll or not? No.
Your "sarcastic" post was stupid, your "clarification" made no sense, and your continued complaints are tedious.
And as someone else suggested, if you don't want to be perceived as an asshole, don't post obnoxious things under the name "Anonymous."
That should be pretty easy to understand even without a "pristine" brain. Claiming to be a Democrat doesn't mean that no one's allowed to get irritated with you, you know?
bannedman, i didn't mean to imply any equivalence between carter and shrub. i have great respect for carter and i consider shrub to be a completely worthless piece of vile disgusting filth. what i meant was that carter was the last gasp of a longstanding democratic coalition and i think shrub may be the end of a republican one
renata--you haven't seen Kerry's speech yet? enjoy--Clark is just the appetizer (and he's great.) Pelosi was okay. i skipped Joementum. watch the Kerry clip film, his daughters, and MAX, if you can...the build-up is worth it.
I really wanted Dean but after seeing Kerry's speech tonight I think the Iowa primary might have had the right outcome.
I think you're right. Kerry's gravity and stolidity works in his favor, and is going to make Bush seem like even more of a piping, prancing pipsqueak.
"Please elaborate.. this sounds exciting!"
"Anonymous," I really was right about you being a "punk."
Make sure you can get away from your beard, . . . er, . . . uh, . . . wife . . . first before I go to all the trouble of getting you all hot and bothered with my graphic and titilating description of what I have in mind.
By the way, once you experience ME, you'll not want any other . . . including Dubya, the one you've been used to servicing on a regular basis.
Your "sarcastic" post was stupid, your "clarification" made no sense, and your continued complaints are tedious. Central scrutinizer had the proper response above. All your doing now is encouraging more piling on.
I *almost* felt sorry for Lieberman.
Almost.
I did. He looked like a broken man. Seriously. He couldn't even do his act as the champion of the party's right since Clark just had wrapped himself in the flag to a standing ovation.
btw, i have recently taken to substituting the word "filth" for "shit". i think it is actually a stronger term for some reason.
I saw Kerry twice including the rerun. It was Clark I had not seen yet.
I watched Joementum just to appreciate the sheer awfulness of it. That had to have been, hands down, the worst speech of the convention. It was stunning to see the crowd shots with expressionless delegates giving him polite applause, the applause lines falling flatter than a matzah (sp?) cracker, his pregnant pauses for the applause that would never come.
Face it, Joe. You're damn lucky you live in Connecticut.
Olaf glad and big... gotcha... no biggie.
I disagree on Carter, though. I think Carter was the first non-New Deal-rooted Democratic President. I wouldn't say he was a model for the DLC. Carter style and policy priorities were all his own.
did i not hear Buchanan last night predicting a major split in the RNC, maybe even before the election, on Tweety (or someone's crap show) last night? i think he said, "along the Goldwater fault-line."
'bout time. add that to an Obama future...and we may evolve into humans around here yet.
C-SPAN didn't play the speeches in order. They repeated Kerry, then Borementum, then Clark, now is Mfume but I think it's time for bed now.
What about this?
As Teresa Heinz Kerry gave her prime-time address at the Democratic National Convention on Tuesday night, Medea Benjamin of CODEPINK: Women for Peace attempted to bring an anti-war message onto the convention floor. She unfurled a pink banner that read “End the Occupation of Iraq” a sentiment that is shared by the majority of Americans and vast majority of Democrats and was promptly dragged out of the Fleet Center by the police. more
Meaning of Life...
what in the tarnation are you blathering on about? Make your point! What is your beef?
let's let obama be a senator for a while and prove himself. all i really know about him is that he's a good speaker and he looks good in a suit.
Face it, Joe. You're damn lucky you live in Connecticut.
People who held the seat before Joe:
Ribicoff: Who stood up in Chicago and defended the anti-war protesters who were getting the shit kicked out of them in the streets by the cops (provoking Daly to say "shut up you Jew bastard").
Lowell Weicker: Who grilled Halderman in the Senate until Halderman almost crushed the table in his hands.
Lieberman isn't fit to carry luggage for either of them.
link for:
dragged out of the Fleet Center by the police>
Carter was a poor president, IMVHO, partly because he was dealt a bad hand, partly because he didn't know how to play the Washington game. He had a Democrat Congress for chrissakes... but he thought he would lead and they would follow. Didn't work out that way.
He was/is a decent man. Maybe too decent for the White House. Sad to say that, but probably true.
However he was the first president to base our foreign relations in part on human rights. As much as the GOP scorned that, Reagan also used human rights as part of the basis of his foreign policy, though of course it was simply another cudgel with which to bash the Commies. He was perfectly willing to overlook atrocities commited by US-friendly thugs and mercenaries.
Hey, I noticed someone commenting tonight with the name "jenblogger".
That felt weird.
*
Central scrutinizer had the proper response above. All your doing now is encouraging more piling on.
Anonymous
CS responds in his way, and I respond in mine. That's what happens when you're two different people!
If you don't like my response, well gee...that's too bad. I'm not encouraging "piling on"; I'm responding to a post in whch you referred to me in an insulting way for no good reason. So stop whining already.
And yeah, you almost certainly are a troll. But again, who really cares? A rose by any other name, and so forth...
sorry renata--i wasn't paying enough attention, i took off when Max came on, and just checked back in a bit ago. if only Clark had been shown on primetime network...
>I saw Kerry twice including the rerun. It was Clark I had not seen yet.
Philalethes... I laughed my ass off when Joe Trippi got replace buy a hand puppet tonight at the MSNBC pundit desk. If Dean had replace Trippi with a hand puppet last October, Dean might have been the nominee.
Trippi was so responsible for the Dean collapse. He didn't get the people on the ground in Iowa and New Hampshire organizing skills. The ads flat out sucked. All that money that Dean raised was for all practical purposes thrown in the street.
I don't know how Dean would have done in the General election. think he could have won. I think his medical degree would have played well, and he had the entire Iraq issue to use against Dubya, instead of only part of it.
But it couldn't have happened with Trippi, so it's kind of a moot point, I guess.
well I can't imagine what other state would have elected Joe. Seems to me he's the kind of guy you vote for if you want someone who is strictly Establishment but it's gauche to vote for Republicans.
Hey, I noticed someone commenting tonight with the name "jenblogger".
That felt weird.
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Jenny from the Blog
If you were Bill O'Reilly, you could file a frivolous lawsuit!
renato, exactly my point. carter thought he would lead and they would follow, but the democratic coalition that would have done that was disintegrating at the time.
All that money that Dean raised was for all practical purposes thrown in the street.
didn't a good chunk of it go into Trippi's pocket? My understanding is he worked for free but got the agency fees for the spots (or a cut of it).
"If you were Bill O'Reilly, you could file a frivolous lawsuit!"
Philalethes -
I know... but it just seems so... wrong!
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well I can't imagine what other state would have elected Joe. Seems to me he's the kind of guy you vote for if you want someone who is strictly Establishment but it's gauche to vote for Republicans.
Give me Tom Kean over Lieberman any day.
lieberman's voice is exactly the same as one of the hannah barbera cartoon characters. i'm going nuts because i can't place it. i think it might be deputy dawg.
I step away for five minutes and somebody co-opts my handle! (she does seem nice though, not a troll...)
perhaps she's just a one-night stand.
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you guys talking about Dean...
there was a story written by a Dean insider some time after Dean dropped out.. explaining that Dean couldn't really believe that he was in the situation he was in, and that there was something in the secret records while he was Governor that he didn't want to get out, and that he would drop out if push came to shove...
Explain to me how Trippi is supposed to respond to that? How is that Trippi's fault.. Dean had something to hide, and he was called on his bluff..
renato... Carter was a good President. It's the Democratic Party of 1977-1981 that sucked, and sucked hard. Remember, Carter was stuck with the Dixiecrats. They hadn't converted to Southern neo-con ReThugs yet. The Democrats in Congress refused to try to get along with Carter or each other. They had chased Nixon from the white House, and they thought they were going to be in charge for decades, and everyone was looking for their individual pay offs.
It was a real bad time to watch us have it all and degenerate so bitterly.
Olaf--Obama was editor of the Harvard Law Review, according to my PBS comment-head: the only job MORE prestigious than President of the U.S.
i like smart people in politics.
but yeah, he's totally got to do at least one or two terms in the senate, get on some committees, get some foreign relations time in, etc., before we can get too excited about him. i'm just happy to see people like him--smart, straightforward, ethical (far as i know at least)--getting into politics at all these days.
OK I shouldn't say this cuz I'll jinx us...
...but no sign of
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David Patterson
tonight!
Hurrah!
I know... but it just seems so... wrong!
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Jenny from the Blog
Well, she's not going to fool any of us! Just let her try her sly insinuations around here...I'll show her what's what.
On the other hand, maybe you should e-mail her...if she's willing, you could start a JFTB franchise...sort of like TCBY. You could oversee quality control, have more time to relax...
I have a similar arrangement with the name-stealing trolls...they sit in a dark basement posting retarded nonsense under my name, while I gambol around in the sunlight. But a non-troll body-double would be even better!
I don't think we have to worry about Obama's future. It's only a matter of time.
I would watch that speech of his again. I wish I had taped it. He is such a natural!
David Patterson
tonight!
Hurrah!
renato
I have it on good authority that he spontaneously combusted, like Krook in Dickens' "Bleak House." Nothing left but a sticky paste of ash and fat all over everything.
Easy come, easy go...
The post that Central Scrutinizer responded to certainly should have clarified things for you. But you carry this thing on with name calling. Every post I have made tonite on this thread has met with a vicious response by you. Your first reaction was a misreading of a very silly post. The name calling should have stopped after that, it didn't. Have I called you any names?
Philalethes -
Ha! Well, please save my seat next time she arrives on the scene. I'm not ready to franchise...
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The post that Central Scrutinizer responded to certainly should have clarified things for you.
Please understand: I don't care. I don't need anything clarified. I'm not even slightly interested in you or your anonymous posts or your questions or your explanations or your opinions. I'm not interested at all in any of it, and I can't imagine why you'd imagine that I should be. Get over yourself.
"I have it on good authority that he spontaneously combusted, like Krook in Dickens' "Bleak House."
Or like all those drummers in "Spinal Tap".
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Trippi got a good chunk, but not as much as originally thought. Let's put it this way. Trippi didn't sacrifice anything to be Dean's campaign manager.
There was NOTHING in those record of Dean's about Dean. What Dean was hiding was the letters he had recieved from quite a few gay "in-the closet" people that wrote him at the time of the Civil Unions. They were the personal story type letters, but they also included names and addresses. Dean was willing to go to hell and back to ensure those letters were not made public records.
why do people argue for argument's sake. I think anonymous is stunt woman.
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I don't care. Then quit responding
i'm pretty enthusiastic about obama. i'm just saying he needs to pay his dues and show what he is made of. one thing we have learned from the current punk administration is that the presidency is not an entry level position.
Ha! Well, please save my seat next time she arrives on the scene. I'm not ready to franchise...
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Jenny from the Blog
We'll dig a moat and keep a watch on the battlements. She's not gonna peddle her shoddy bootleg wares around here if I can help it.
Anyway, I'm outta here. G'night, all.
okay, i'm off to watch the second run of Kerry on Faux--just to see what they'll say, not that i give one single good goddamn about THEM, just curious.)
thanks to Atrios/DB, and all the regulars, for being such a great place for "reality" checks! and to everyone who posted all that cool poetry (today is the naming of parts...) the other day...MAN, THAT was an unexpected breath of fresh air, i read through that thread, and promptly went traipsing about the neighborhood for like two hours, just feeling good.
we will never go gently into that good night.
(boy does Librarian get sappy after a couple of drinks.)
'night y'all.
Folks
I'd like to sing a song about the American Dream
About me,
About you,
About the way our American hearts beat way down in the bottoms of our chests,
About that special feelting we get in the cockles of our hearts
Or maybe below the cockles,
Maybe in the sub cockle area,
Maybe in the liver,
Maybe in the kidneys,
Maybe even in the colon,
We don't know
I'm just a regular joe,
With a regular job.
I'm your average white,
Suburbanite slob.
I like football, and porno, and books about war.
I've got an average house,
With a nice hardwood floor.
My wife, and my job, my kids, and my car,
My feet on the table,
With a Cuban cigar.
But sometimes that just ain't enough,
To keep a man like me interested,
Oh no, no way, uh uhh.
No I gotta go out and have fun,
At someone elses expense,
Oh yeah, yeah yeah, yeah yeah yeah,
I drive really slow,
In the ultra fast lane,
while people, behind me, are going insane.
I'm an asshole
(he's an asshole, what an asshole)
I'm an asshole
(he's an asshole, such an asshole)
I use public toilets,
And I piss on the seat,
I walk around in the summer time,
Sayin' "How about this heat?"
I'm an asshole
(he's an asshole, what an asshole)
I'm an asshole
(he's the worlds biggest asshole)
Sometimes I park in handicapped spaces,
While handicapped People, make handicapped faces,
I'm an asshole
(he's an asshole, what an asshole)
I'm an asshole
(he's a big fucking asshole)
Maybe I shouldnt be singing this song,
Ranting and raving and carring on,
Maybe they're right when they tell me I'm wrong.
NAAAHHHHH
I'm an asshole
(he's an asshole, what an asshole)
I'm an asshole
(he's the worlds biggest asshole)
You know what I'm gonna do?
I'm gonna get myself a 1967 Cadaliac Eldarado Convertable,
Hot Pink!
With whale skin hub caps,
An all leather cow interior,
And big brown baby seal eyes for headlights.
YEAH!
And I'm gonna drive around in that baby,
At 115 miles per hour,
Getting one mile per gallon,
Sucking down quarter pounder cheeseburgers from McDonalds in the old-fasioned non-biodegradable styrafoam containers.
And when I'm done sucking down those grease ball burgers,
I'm gonna wipe my mouth in the American flag,
And then I'm gonna toss the styrafoam containers right out the side,
And there ain't a God damn thing anybody can do about it,
You know why?
'Cause we got the bombs, that's why.
Two words, Nuclear Fucking Weapons OK.
Russia, Germany, Romania,
They can have all the democracy they want.
They can have a big democracy cake,
Walk right through the middle of Tienemen Square,
And it won't make a lick of difference,
Because we got the bombs OK!
John Wayne's not dead,
He's frozen.
And as soon as we find a cure for cancer, we're gonna thaw out the duke.
And he's gonna be pretty pissed off,
You know why?
Have you ever t
Kerry's daughters' speechs told me that this in no ordinary man, but when he spoke i was convinced this nation needs this man, and you could see he knew it too. I saw a man of integrity, strengh, and fearlessness. The reference to the Saudi Royal family was sheer, in your face Bushco., guts. I saw an "American" like i'd never seen before, founding fathers stuff for sure.
'night, Phila.
I feel safe when you're around...
*
Spoke too soon I guess.
"like those drummers from spinal tap. . ."
stumpy joe!
good drummer
great look
I missed Liebeman's speech.
Taken together with experiencing Kerry's most excellent oration, missing Lieberman made for TWO really wonderful events for me in what's turned into a terrific evening.
Some people out of stubborness will support the Repubes because they don't want to be classed as dupes and fools. The swing voters shown during the I'm Chris Mathews and I'm a well paid F--k bastard show, showed that. Some were squirming to find a reason to continue on with Bushie realizing for them to say I've been fooled by this clowns packaging would be saying their not as bright as they pictured themselves to be. Reality is a Bitch.
Olaf glad and big -
For me, the most powerful speeches of the convention were Obama, Carter and Kerry, I'm happy to say!
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The Saudi Royal Family line was awesome.
This has nothing to do with this thread, so sorry, but:
Does anyone have a clue about the current cryptic post on www.talkingpointsmemo.com ?
Specifically:
Great work CNN! (You'll understand soon enough ...)
I don't understand, and it's beyond soon enough.
"I missed Liebeman's speech."
It was mercifully short. He's become quite pathetic and very tame. I think the Loserman has done shot his wad.
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John Kerry is a good man. After this great speech it will be absolutely devastating if Bush wins another term.
good point, david patterson, but keep this in mind--
the girls would turn the color of an avocado
when he drove down the street in his eldorado
he was only 5 ft 2 but the girls could not resist his stare and so
pablo picasso was never
called an asshole
jenny, those were my favorite speeches too. i'm not down on obama or anything. i'm just saying let him be a senator for a while. kerry was a senator for 20 years and that is one of the reasons he is a strong presidential candidate.
Orville Redenbacher: Balloon-gate.
Olaf g & b -
I got it. Just was throwing my two cents in. I came late to the conversation - It never occurred to me that you were down on Obama. He's tremendous and I know you think so too!
goodnight...
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Lieberman is definitely pathetic, but he's reared his ugly head as co-chair of the nuevo-neo-con conjob - The New Improved Recycled & Re-Treaded Committee For The Present Danger, with the incompetent nutcase, James Woolsey as acting chairman. This is the same tired gang of Likudniks and Chicken Littles who brought us Star Wars, Iraq Wars and diplomatic fellatio for Ariel Sharon. Lieberman is a weasel. I said he was pathetic...but I think pathological is more like it.
Josh Marshall... might be that they let the cursing balloon operator on live... might have to do with the upcoming "Bush nobody knows" feature... really not sure, just guessing.
I'm sure he's referring to the f-word incident with the balloons
D'oh! Someone's gonna get fined!
the washington post editorial whore belched forth this ironic hypocrisy:
"Yet in economics as in national security, Mr. Kerry missed an opportunity for straight talk."
The crooked Post and the Unfathomably dishonest Bush are epitomize by Cheney's barking out falsehoods out of the side of his permanently crooked scar of a mouth
brucds explains one of the many reasons why I couldn't quite bring myself to feel sorry for Lieberman's sad little final hurrah. From Veep candidate to the joke of the convention in four short years.
Shall we start a pool on when he decides to join the GOP? I think tonight made it pretty clear he's going nowhere in the Dem party.
Kevin Drum on the first day of the convention...I didn't watch. Kevin Drum on Michael Moore...it was mediocre even as propaganda, I found myself looking at my watch 20 minutes into the movie. Kevin Drum on Obama...the speech lacked content. Kevin Drum on Kerry...it had a laundry list quality. Kevin Drum on Edwards....my wife wasn't buying it, some of this stuff is kind of phony.
might have to do with the upcoming "Bush nobody knows" feature
What's that?
So it went well, huh? Groovy. Remember, my celestial friends, the battle ends not tonight, but continues in the streets of the city and the roads of the nation. It continues in the hearts and minds all across the country, right up to Nov. 2, when we the people toss that desperately poor excuse for an executive officer and his band of mendacious, ham-fisted, divisive thugs out of office.
But the battle does not end there, no. We have a long, long way to go to get this country where it needs to be, where it deserves to be. We have so much to do, so many wrongs to right, so many bounties to celebrate. It's the battle, not the victory; the journey, not the arrival. Kerry will win, but we have to not only fix the gaping holes in our governmental system that lets far, far too many fall through the cracks, we must make sure our president works for our interests. Not them with the most money or most pull, but all of us. As Woody said, this land is our land.
Will we see it in our lifestime? Maybe not, probably not, but as always, that doesn't mean we should throw down our arms. For our's is a cause of justice and right for all, a dream and an ideal so wonderful in the course of human events that it's worth fighting for. Not dying for, mind you. It's easy to die for an ideal. Living for one is the tricky deal, and my friends, this fight we fight is not a war of destruction. Dear hearts, this is a fight for life, in all connotations possible.
Kick out the jams, motherfuckers.
Lieberman = (zell) MllerLite
As Woody said, this land is our land.
As Woody said to Diane Keaton, this land is our land, all the way from Washington Square to 96th and Broadway.
kevin is ok. i don't go there as often as i went to calpundit though. it has changed.
What the hell did you guys do the carpet! Who's going to clean this up?
Man, this is what I get for wandering in at 4AM... some of us had to fucking work all night, not like you kids...
Took an hour off to watch Big John, though. Looking good!
Heard Wesley Clark in the car. Goddamn! Made me want to rip up oak trees and flatten mountains. I'd say the general has found his voice...
Looking back on the primaries, all in all, what an incredible field we had this time out. Damn impressive. And there just ain't shit on the other side.
And I'm frankly glad we don't have the media, the goddamn wankers. Piss on them and their prissy ass condescension. Tell me it won't be too fucking sweet to have these smug mtherfuckers declare Kerry in November.
Hell's yeah!
renato -
Obama was truly magnificant. I watched his speech several times. He embodied the words he spoke. I felt like I was watching a beautiful ballet. Absolutely the most gorgeous, elegant presentation I've ever seen.
*
when the hell do we get our Plame indictments????
This was a great speech. I've seen it three times now. Kerry IS better than Clinton. Do not hesitate to call this a great speech or Kerry a good, smart, strong leader.
kudos renato -- i can now better savor my revulsion of that grotesque imp after reading how he verbally relieved himself with:
"Nothing is considered more important than responding to the 9/11 commission's reports,'' Mr. Lieberman said. ""The fear here is a real one - the fear that there might be another attack before Congress has acted."
Source: NYSlimes
backslider is right though. for all my newfound hearty enthusiasm for kerry, all i am really expecting from him is to just sort of bring the country back to normal. there is still plenty to be done after that.
right on, Jen. There was pure poetry in that speech. His words and his gestures. It all just flowed. I don't know if he'll be president someday, but he's certainly got a damn good shot at it.
Hillary/Obama in 2012!!!
"Heard Wesley Clark in the car. Goddamn!"
Wish you could have seen him. His body language was powerful as well. It was great to see him shine and to feel his passion. (plus, he's so damned handsome, in that army general kind of way...)
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Anon - Kevin Drum has been getting his fanny spanked by his readers in response to his running idiocies. The guy is tone-deaf. He's acting like an Episcopalian who stumbled into a black Baptist Church. I started reading the guy as Calpundit - and he's done some decent blogging on a few issues - but I'm beginning to consider him a tedious waste of time. He confuses typing out his subjective and often literally clueless reactions to onbgoing events with actually having something incisive or informative to say that makes his blog worth reading.
Josh Marshall... might be that they let the cursing balloon operator on live... might have to do with the upcoming "Bush nobody knows" feature... really not sure, just guessing.
I'm betting CNN will be reporting with no BS that the New Republic has just been proven right -- Pakistan produced an AQ guy duing the Dem convention, served up on time as ordered.
olaf,
As I've said elsewhere, we the people have forgotten that our elected officials "lead" only at our discretion. We have almost abandoned our duties as citizens of a free democracy. If anything's positive has come out of the Bush malAdministration, it's that so many of us have finally realized what happens when we let such power go unchecked. Kerry's just a single step on a long, hard road making our country what it should be, what it can be; but Kerry's a step in the right direction.
Best speeches according to me:
1) Obama
2) Bill Cllinton
3) Kerry
4) Carter
I love seeing Big Dawg speak. He's so damn good. Makes me remember what it was like to have a president who wasn't an illiterate jeebo-fascist.
i think kevin has a pretty good "professional blogging" gig going and he doesn't want to fuck it up. i don't really blame him, but i'm not all that interested in what he has to say any more.
i actually think kerry's speech was the best. he is the man. bush is the boy. who ya gonna vote for, the man or the boy?
1) Obama
2) Bill Cllinton
3) Kerry
4) Carter
Top 10:
1.) Obama
2.) Clinton
3.) Kerry
4.) Clark
5.) Biden
6.) Carter
7.) Edwards
8.) Dean
9.) Teresa
10.) Hillary
From an AP report over at Yahoo:
"Beginning a two-day swing through four presidential battlegrounds after a week's vacation at his Texas ranch, Bush planned to say in a new stump speech that, 'When it comes to choosing a president, results matter,' according to excerpts of the speech obtained by The Associated Press.
Aides said that was meant to be a subtle suggestion that Kerry has not produced much in his two decades in the Senate."
*snort* Funny, when I heard "results matter" I was thinking of the miserable "results" we've gotten from bushie these past four years...
as the saying goes, backslider: if the people lead, the leaders will follow.
Drum is the master of "on the one hand", "on the other hand", & other forms of tiresome equivocation packaged as commentary. He's becoming a posterboy for Jim Hightower's "a yellow stripe is the only thing in the middle of the road". Or was that "a yellow stripe and dead armadilloes" ? Yeah. The latter...
did the news channels play up the Pakistan-AQ thing much? I watched C-SPAN. I couldn't stand watching even CNN. Apart from the blatant bias of their commentary, it was all just so STUPID. A bunch of airheads chattering about nothing to fill time.
Speaking of commentary, I wonder what 'liberals' will be invited to comment on the GOP hatefest - er, convention? They gave us Ralph Reed and a lot of perfectly-coiffed talking heads saying, "are the Democrats too liberal for Americans?"
Do we get, say, Noam Chomsky or Carville to comment on the RNC? Or is it going to be people like Alan Colmes or Michael Kinsley?
Michael Barone on Fox after the Kerry speech......In the past Democratic conventions have been about love, this year the convention was all about hate.
Drum is the master of "on the one hand", "on the other hand", & other forms of tiresome equivocation packaged as commentary. He's becoming a posterboy for Jim Hightower's "a yellow stripe is the only thing in the middle of the road". Or was that "a yellow stripe and dead armadilloes" ? Yeah. The latter...
I actually like reading Sullivan better.
He's genuinely conflicted between his suckup little right-wing nature and the fact that he's bright enough to realize that the right has no place for any gay man in their party.
It's fun watching him put himself through hoops than occasionally have this "oh my God what have I done" reaction.
'When it comes to choosing a president, results matter'
Unless your name is Bill Clinton, in which case nothing good that happened on your watch is to your credit, and everything bad that happened after you left office is all your fault.
well if bush wants to run on "results" i say go for it. i won't vote for him. his results make me want to disembowel myself.
Do we get, say, Noam Chomsky or Carville to comment on the RNC? Or is it going to be people like Alan Colmes or Michael Kinsley?
I'm betting Chris Mathews ranting about Teresa and black coffee and Dee Dee Myers playing around with sock puppets.
Wish you could have seen him. His body language was powerful as well. It was great to see him shine and to feel his passion. (plus, he's so damned handsome, in that army general kind of way...)
Watching it through the C-Span site now.
There was something about just hearing it, though. Driving into the sunset, hearing that speech...
These guys are making it god-damned hard to be my cynical self.
In the past Democratic conventions have been about love, this year the convention was all about hate.
good lord. They really ARE smoking something. Or living in an alternate universe.
With the exceptions of Sharpton (of course) and Carter (gasp!) it was a very POSITIVE convention. The Bush-bashing was VERY subdued.
Judging by the five seconds of Fox that I watched this week, it's a terrible thing - hateful, even - to criticize the Commander-in-Chief at all... even at the opposition party's quadrennial convention.
After all, we're at war. We might even have to suspend the elections. Because if we don't, the terrorists will win. You don't want THAT to happen, do you?
and i'm not suicidal by nature. i really am glad and big.
Olaf -
Please don't disembowel yourself, at least wait till we have our celebration party in November... then you'll be free to start carving.
'night.
*
i thought the whole thing was really positive. these punks who are in office are an unmitigated disaster. we will kick them out. that's positive as hell, i think. inspiring even.
once kerry becomes elected, after making sure all the votes (popular and electoral) get counted this time, the media is going to try to slime their way back into our lives. they have been keeping this abortion George the Bush afloat for years and they deserve to go down as the ignominious disinformation traitors they are
i just think about it jenny. i'm not really gonna do it. i don't own a sharp enough knife anyway
Olaf -
good. 'cause it's just so darn messy. plus, we need you around here!
*
top 10:
you have to get Mfume, Jackson & Sharpton in there, too (at least Sharpton!--just for the audience engagement factor!)
okay, now i am REALLY off (FauxNews rebuttle was interesting, for like 4 minutes...)
I was telling a friend when it was all over that I thought Kerry was better than Clinton and second only to Obama. His reaction was that Obama's speech was like great poetry, but that Kerry's speech was the best one of the convention because it offered substance on all of the key themes, it was truly presidential and it delivered more than people expected - both in terms of policy/direction and honest inspiration - coming straight from the central figure in the drama.
I think he's right. With all respect to Obama, he was a stunning cheerleader you couldn't take your eyes off of - but Kerry put the ball through the hoop and he was - almost by definition - the only man who could do it. I'm elated.
Hey Kids,
Any body got a link to a stream that shows Kerry's Introduction as well as his speech?
really, all kerry had to do to impress me was come across as someone who is NOT a completely insane basket case. i would have settled for that. but he did way better.
'When it comes to choosing a president, results matter,'
Oh, Dubya's had loads of results. They all were shit. Dubya is deeper in shit results than a colonoscopy lab.
the intro was great uncle scam. it better be out there somewhere. i was too young for vietnam and my own father was too old. too old to be drafted anyway. but i know a lot of people who were there. a serious wound was stitched up for a lot of people in that intro.
I have total contempt for Andrew Sullivan (he's got the soul of a McCarthyite - which is why Alterman calls him "lil' Roy" as in Roy Cohn.) But it IS kinda fun reading him these days and watching his gyrations.
Unlike Sullied, Drum actually IS a Democrat and basically a decent guy - but like a lot of "decent guys" he seems to run out of things to say pretty quickly. Which would be okay if he was aware that he'd run out of things to say...and signaled to himself to stop typing,
As most commentators have noted, this was John Kerry’s best speech. He highlighted the substantive points of policy he will implement and many visions & ideals that will shape his administration. I was impressed and did not expect such a well shaped message and charisma from Kerry. I believe he has improved his viability for office with undecided voters who watched this speech.
I only have a few criticisms. A strong focus on God, however since this secularist understands the importance of this issue with the majority of Americans , I can live with this focus. However he did make one statement of faith that I completely agree with, the place for faith in America:
"And let me say it plainly: In that cause, and in this campaign, we welcome people of faith. America is not us and them."
I think of what Ron Reagan said of his father a few weeks ago, and I want to say this to you tonight:
"I don’t wear my religion on my sleeve, but faith has given me values and hope to live by, from Vietnam to this day, from Sunday to Sunday. I don’t want to claim that God is on our side. As Abraham Lincoln told us, I want to pray humbly that we are on God’s side. "
Additionally, constant reminders of his efforts as a solider in Vietnam were overdone, but I understand the message consistency was designed to convince voters of his “strength”. Nevertheless, early in his speech he stated:
"I will be a commander in chief who will never mislead us into war. I will have a vice president who will not conduct secret meetings with polluters to rewrite our environmental laws. I will have a secretary of defense who will listen to the best advice of the military leaders. And I will appoint an attorney general who will uphold the Constitution of the United States."
These concise and forceful points clearly shaped the criticisms and hesitations a large proportion of Americans have with the current administration on their hawkish desires for war. These points were stated in an indirect manner that relies on a continuing storyline of this administrations weaknesses.
Kerry also adds:
"And let’s not forget what we did in the 1990s: We balanced the budget. We paid down the debt. We created 23 million new jobs. We lifted millions out of poverty. And we lifted the standard of living for the middle class."
Kerry carefully draws the audience attention to historical Democratic accomplishments in a happier time in American life. Democrats has always had an incredible strong record on job creation. The economy has always done better under Democratic leadership. The stock market performs ~50% better under Democrats (~8% R -> 12% D). Democrats have always implemented policy to improve the standard of living for the working class.
Strong visionary words:
"We value an America that controls its own destiny because it’s finally and forever independent of Mideast oil. What does it mean for our economy and our national security when we have only 3 percent of
Olaf glad and big: really, all kerry had to do to impress me was come across as someone who is NOT a completely insane basket case. i would have settled for that. but he did way better.
I set my lower threadhold for Kerry as not showing obvious signs of an active rabies infection. As long as Kerry didn't drool, foam at the mouth, and start biting people in the first few rows in front of the podium, he had my vote.
(typo) threshold, not threadhold
we have almost abandoned our duties as citizens of a free democracy.
Yup. And it's fueled by a faux-hip, know it all attitude that really pisses me off: the idea that it doesn't matter who wins, they're all the same, who cares, we know it's really just a game... cynicism dressed up like sophistication.
Like the media brahmins deciding ahead of time that the Dem convention would be boring hatefest, let's barely cover it, show up for the parties, snark our way through it all, laugh at the silly peasants in their silly buttons and their silly hats playing at democracy.
Like the smug motherfuckers who won't vote because it's a waste of time, they're all the same, who cares, you're a stooge for paying attention to that politics shit.
Jesus Christ, don't these bastards know there's a war on? And the war is based on lies? That people are dying?
This kind of cynicism is what makes it OK for Bush to mislead the country into a botched war without a good cause: a whole lot of shitheads thought and still think that's the same thing as getting a blowjob from an intern.
And they think you're the dupe for believing otherwise...
You know the only reason I even I will vote Kerry is not because I think he is a visionary (because he isn't)but it is my hope that his first day in office he will open an investigation into war crimes of the previous admin...of course it wont go anywhere, much like the BCCI investigation's or Iran/contra fiasco. But I will be satisfied...
@Uncle $cam -- some folks over at Whiskey Annex want to know if you could dish (fish) up some of those posts were you expounded on the details of the 9/11 financial chicanery?
nicholas, i don't think the vietnam stuff was overdone at all, and here's why. . .
the current war is being conducted by people who were low ranking officials during the vietnam war. for 30 years they have believed that they could have done it better if they had had more power back then. they have finally gotten their chance to prove it. they have proven exactly the opposite.
Oh, Dubya's had loads of results. They all were shit. Dubya is deeper in shit results than a colonoscopy lab.
Man the GOP is fucked if they have to run on Bush's record.
You think maybe they'll in fact say "fuck that shit" and just go straight to the hate and lies?
Oh, maybe...
i can't wait til september. i'm dying to find out who the republicans are going to nominate.
I thought that Kerry's approach to faith was brilliant. He IS a religious man. But he framed his religious faith perfectly. Not defensively, but in a way that actually challenged the religious integrity of those who claim to be speaking for God - as opposed to believers who have the humility to seek inspiration from their faith rather than use it as a club or an advertisement for themselves.
x174, Sure, which ones...their are many many in the rabbit hole.
So. Now the Vietnam war was a good war too, right?
a lot of people are saying bush will be the nominee, but that would just be crazy.
i don't think the vietnam war was a good war, bill
opps, their = there...it'a late my fingers are drunk...lol
Uncle $cam -- some of us have decided that the questions of "Who financed and who benefitted from the 9/11 bombing" are about ripe for pulling together now that the "assficial" 9/11 Report has been laid on the table. i would be glad to fish them out from under the bar if you could give me a sort of treasure map. or, if you could think of another way. . .
while digesting reader's digest
at the back of a dirty book store
a plastic flag with gum on the back
fell out on the floor
i picked it up, ran outside
slapped it on my windowshield
if i could see old betsy ross
i'd tell her how good it feels
but your flag decal won't get you
into heaven any more
we're already overcrowded
from your dirty little war
now jesus don't like killin'
no matter what the reason for
and your flag decal won't get you
into heaven any more
x174 , uh, where's this "Whiskey Annex"? I think I annoy people here...lol
Would be nice to get a drink at an annex...
But - "I defended this country as a young man, and I will defend it as President."
This campaign is based on the fact that the Vietnam war was more just than Operation Iraqi Freedom. And this is a direct contradiction of LL thought over the last thirty years, and Kerry's own public actions. So, in order to get ourselves (ya'll, not me) back in power, we'll hide this little shibboleth under the rug for a few months...
U$ -- just google it.
Bill, take your head out of your ass and go to bed.
i had a drink at an annex once. it was really like totally. . .i don't know. . .sublime.
i was really really thirsty though.
"I defended this country as a young man, and I will defend it as President"
Yeah... he bravely defended Midland TX from Waco TX
the whole notion that any president would refuse to defend america is simply absurd. well, up until the current one anyway.
Uh, bannedman, that quote is from Kerry's acceptance speech.
The opposition is now embracing a war that they, and especially the candidate, have decried for a generation. Pirouetting principles for political power.
@Olaf glad and big -- so with FDR it was absurd, but with the Chimp it makes sense?
it isn't pirhouetting principles at all, bill. we are presenting vietnam as a bad example.
fdr did not refuse to defend america, x174
america fought a long, gruesome war against very powerful adversaries under fdr and prevailed. i have no idea what the hell you are talking about.
Olaf -- ever read "day of deceit" ?
no
Jesus Christ, don't these bastards know there's a war on? And the war is based on lies? That people are dying?
Right Thersites, and Kerry’s going to wave his wand and transform that war into a righteous international cause. Right? He’s going to win it, right? Because he’s a real warrior man, right?
Or am I making the mistake of actually listening to what he says and taking him at his word?
never heard of it.
oh. ok. the john birch society conspiracy theory approach to wwii. no.
Here's a blurb from the publisher:
Pearl Harbor was not an accident, a mere failure of American intelligence, or a brilliant Japanese military coup. It was the result of a carefully orchestrated design, initiated at the highest levels of our government. According to a key memorandum eight steps were taken to make sure we would enter the war by this means. Pearl Harbor was the only way, leading officials felt, to galvanize the reluctant American public into action.
This great question of Pearl Harbor--what did we know and when did we know it?--
Sound familiar?
Olaf -- i'm not going to try and tell you want to think or what not to think. it's up to you if you want to look into or not.
x174, here's a few to "Wet Your Whistle" here and here this second one is long but faollow the yellow brick road...also look into
A few names to keep in mind (mind you this goes back many decades)
Banca del Gottardo in Nassau in the Bahamas
Gianluca Boscaro (part of the Al Taqwa complex)The Al Taqwa complex is very important!
al-Tikriti
Martin Bormann
and remember Mr. Krugman suggests that ?a fiscal train wreck? is indeed intended, they are going to wreck the econonmy even if Kerry wins...
Banker Who Hid Saddam?s Millions? by Stephen Grey, Nick Fielding, Jon Ungoed-Thomas, Edin Hamzic, Paolo Fusi, Eben Black; Sunday Times [London]; 4/13/2003; .)
I got more...much more.
Bill, but your side embraced the war for 30 years and John Kerry served in that war with honor. HE served. YOUR BOYS EMBRACED THE WAR WITH WORDS, BUT THEY KNEW INSIDE THE WAR WAS BAD NEWS, AND THEY FUCKING AVOIDED SERVICE. John Kerry served despite fears and pangs of conscience. Despite, political evaluations of the war. Your side didn't. Our side is embracing KERRY'S CHARACTER, which was built on strong and real foundations.
yes x174. it's john birch propaganda. of course it's familiar.
Our side is embracing KERRY'S CHARACTER, which was built on strong and real foundations.
Oh right, Kerry was fooled into going to Nam like he was deceived by Bush about Iraq. That’s great character, a guy who keeps getting fooled although his heart’s in the right place.
fdr knew about the attack on pearl harbor in advance. standard whacko stuff. la rouche has picked it up now that the john birch society is moribund.
so don't vote for him antiphone. vote for the punk coward shithead.
All infomation is propaganda, remember the label "conspiracy theory' is used by those defending corporate interests the same way they use the label 'communist.' If you are successful at pinning a person or idea with a negative label, then the public will ignore the message.
Further,Calling someone a ?conspiracy theorist? has become an all-purpose trump card to stop thought.
antiphone, i'm just curious, how old are you?
thanks for the tequila and beer Uncle. i'm looking forward to waking up under the table in the morning. i owe you one.
i was referring specifically to conspiracy theories propagated by known whacko organizations for their own sinister purposes.
so don't vote for him antiphone
Oh I’m voting for him all right. I’ll also criticize him when he’s wrong. It’s up to us to tell our representatives what to do. There’s absolutely nothing to be gained from drinking the whole jug of kool aid.
One last thought x174, (before I'm off,keep in mind pnac,AEI, and the Leo Strauss club, Bernard shaw, and Samual P.Huntington of "Clash of civilizations" fame for which we are now using as a basis for our neocrusade plundering foreign policy.
The Vietnam war was noble in intent, that of keeping the south from going communist. We had tactically and strategically (in military terms) won the war, but we grew afraid of losing our humanity because of the inevitable strain such acts place on our psyches. And in the grip of that fear we withdrew, leaving the south to its fate. Even so, it took the north many months to recover from the damage we had caused them and take the country. We lost that war only in our own hearts and minds, and souls. John Kerry was an active part of that national failure.
George Bush is not running on the Vietnam era. John Kerry is. Kerry is embedded in the quagmire of his own inconsistancies.
the only reason i'm asking your age, antiphone, is because there was a big shift in attitude around 1969 or so. prior to that it was just expected that you would fight in whatever war was going on if you were young and male.
antiphone, i'm just curious, how old are you?
Like it’s any of your business, that’s a trolling kind of question isn’t it.
the vietnam war was not noble in intent and it was not won by the united states on either tactical or strategic terms.
george bush has very good personal reasons for not running on the vietnam era.
no antiphone. i'm not trolling. i'm just guessing that maybe you are sort of young that's all. it's not important really.
Bill, you really don't get it, do you. The funny thing is it's hard to tell if you are attacking Kerry from the right or left. And it doesn't matter - because you don't understand the concept of a man who could serve honorably, courageously - even heroically - in a war and come to question whether it was just. That's a lot more powerful than any slogans on either side of the war. Kerry has proven that he'll act on his beliefs, even if it puts him at odds with his own past actions. That's not "flip-flopping" or dishonesty, or covering your ass - it's the essence of integrity and the price of not leaving your brain behind once you take action..
I'm getting a sense that your idea of moral courage is a vote for Nader and some glib rants over beer to prove you are better than a guy who stepped up not once, but twice during the Vietnam war, and did it fearlessly.
there was a big shift in attitude around 1969 or so
From the sound of lots of the rhetoric offered at the Democratic convention they want to shift back.
spasibo unc!
i'm 39 for what it's worth. a lot of my friends had fathers there when i was young. i find that people even 5 years younger than me have what i consider to be a very bizarre view of what was going on then. that's all.
to prove you are better than a guy who stepped up not once, but twice during the Vietnam war, and did it fearlessly.
Listen to this shit
antiphone, do me a favor. there is a book called "the things they carried". the author's name is tim o'brien. read it and you will understand why people went even if they didn't want to.
We had tactically and strategically (in military terms) won the war, but we grew afraid of losing our humanity because of the inevitable strain such acts place on our psyches.
This is total bullshit.
brucds
No need for the ad hominem. I'm just pointing out that Kerry is not on as firm a ground as you might think. You might dismiss what I wrote, but will the American public do so if Bush raises those points in the debates?
Oh, I can't help myself x174, do check out: The yankee and cowboy war: Conspiracies from Dallas to Watergate by Carl Oglesby. It will open your pandora box...lol
what points, bill? is bush going to accuse kerry of being a dupe for going to the war? i don't think so.
'hic
bill, you have to keep in mind that a lot of people who went to that war are still around and a lot of people who died in that war are still remembered. to a lot of people it isn't just some historical abstraction and people who were there or who lost loved ones there really really hate seeing it treated like one.
you will understand why people went even if they didn't want to
It’s not that he went that bothers me, it’s that the way this is being used in the context of our current wars.
i know what you mean, antiphone. but he did come back and agitate for an end to it. i respect that.
well, the current war is very similar to the vietnam war. it is fundamentally wrong and will never end with an american victory.
It’s not that he went that bothers me, it’s that the way this is being used in the context of our current wars.
I'm not wild about the Kerry fought in Vietnam meme, but it bothers me a hell of a lot less than the way Bush exploited 9/11 to get us into Iraq.
I was 10 blocks away from the towers when they fell and that bastard didn't have the guts to come to New York until he knew it was totally safe. Then he stood up on that pile and acted like fucking Rambo.
It bothers me even more that the right in general is using 9/11 to demonize any opinions different from their own. Whenever some redneck peckerwood from flyover country hands me the 9/11 never forget line I just want to stamp on his inbred face "I've got fucking soot in my lungs from 9/11 so go fuck yourself."
I'll take Kerry over that anyday, especially after his speech tonight.
Can you imagine Bush saying "I won't say God is on our side but I humbly hope we're on the side of God."
Never in a million years.
the current war will end with an american evacuation.it's no disgrace. it isn't even a real military defeat. just an unsuccessful mission.as far as i'm concerned we could evacuate now with 900+ dead or we can evacuate in 10 years with 9000+ dead. these are our choices. i'm in favor of now/900+
it is fundamentally wrong and will never end with an american victory
There were speakers at the convention promising victory.
There is no such thing as "military victory", "intellectually honest" or "cultural pathology". These are NeoNazi tenets in a sick dogma seeking to justify and resurrect everything that humanity screams through history to escape from.
The American probe goes to Mars to photograph itself on Mars,
the American charity dispenser looks over the measure of America's generosity,
the American moralist goes to Vietistaq to mourn American "humanity" while tripping over smouldering schoolrubble.
There were speakers at the convention promising victory.
Leaving as soon as possible will BE a victory.
Staying for 50 years because you're so hated you need to keep your boot on the neck of the place is failure.
Which party do you think advocates the latter?
From Madeleine Albright's speech before the Democratic National
Convention:
John Kerry knows
that it is not enough just to say that America wants to defeat terror and rid
the world of evil. Wanting something is not the same as doing something. You
have to have a strategy that works. As president, John Kerry will mobilize the
full arsenal of American power including military, intelligence, diplomacy,
law enforcement, and the enduring inspiration of democratic ideals. He will
respond firmly to the present danger while acting wisely to prevent a future
generation of anti-American terrorists from arising and gaining footholds
around the world. He will use intelligence to shape policy, not twist
intelligence to justify policy. And he will stop the spread of the globe's
most dangerous weapons by concentrating on where those weapons are, instead of
where they are not. In our confrontation with terror, John Kerry will not seek
a truce; he will not expect surrender; and he will not settle for stalemate.
His goal will be victory. Under his leadership, we will persist until we
prevail.
Monkey, first of all, "with us or against us logic" is not this camp, it's the other one: second of all, denying things Kerry & co were dumb enough to say or do does not make them better. Kerry's platform was a Bush imitation in every way that mattered from day one. He's still marginally better, he still should win, and for months now it's looked like he will barring Rovian bullshit.
Nevertheless call a fucking spade a spade already! The bastard actually brought up Vietnam without mentioning the one lesson from it that matters!
Red Meat for Dogs who thought the Jib-jab thing wasn't as un-biased as they said it was...click under HOMEPAGE.
The bastard actually brought up Vietnam without mentioning the one lesson from it that matters!
Have to disagree with you there. I think he did.
I also think Kerry was talking about the general war against Al Quaeda, not just Iraq.
Red Meat for Dogs who thought the Jib-jab thing wasn't as un-biased as they said it was...click under HOMEPAGE.
justalink | Email | Homepage |
That was a work of art! Too bad there's no chance in Hell anyone in real life will ever see it on TV :-(
what is the republican platform?
divisiveness
do they stand for any american other than millionaires?
do they stand for anything other than religious zealoutry and guns?
americans - have 'tax cuts' EVER helped you out?
there is only one party that stands for righteousness and all americans - the democratic party of the united states!
I got a great feeling from John last night - he never worked for a big company...he fought against the vietnam war decorated as a hero - most americans unfortunately are too stupid to understand what this means without a clear explanation - i dont give a shit - it needs to be said!
The bizarre WaPo Lead Editorial mentioned by x174 earlier is really a masterpiece of whoredom.
Shorter WaPo:
"Since Kerry didn't give us anything specific for which to attack him, we'll attack him for not giving us anything"
Bastards!
... and Kudos to Kerry
We have to keep pounding CNN, USA Today, local papers to cover TWO MAIN STORIES better:
- Plame affair
- Iraq Corruption / Halliburton
WRITE THEM OVER AND OVER AGAIN!
Monkey, did he say anything about Vietnam being wrong? No. He talked about knowing "what it's like" and he reiterated his intent to Do Bush but Better and reinforce. The lesson of Vietnam is to stay the hell out. The lesson is any of these "if only we'd bombed a few milion more people into ash" strategies are all bullshit that will get you nowhere. It's the Rambo/Apocalypse Now speech about how we could "win" if only we were a wee bit more brutal.
Kurt Davis, haven't you heard? Kerry's fucking influence forced people to use bad language at the convention! And where pray tell is this "Iraq" you speak of?
"In our confrontation with terror, John Kerry will not seek
a truce; he will not expect surrender; and he will not settle for stalemate.
His goal will be victory. Under his leadership, we will persist until we
prevail."
antiphone
I think you brushed over the most important part:
"As president, John Kerry will mobilize the full arsenal of American power including military, intelligence, diplomacy, law enforcement, and the enduring inspiration of democratic ideals. He will respond firmly to the present danger while acting wisely to prevent a future generation of anti-American terrorists from arising and gaining footholds around the world."
This isn't advocating winning in Iraq, this is advocating being smart in dealing with Terrorism and hopefully eradicating it; Through using all of the arrows in our quiver. Most importantly, realistic use of Intel and Diplomacy with other countries and our allies.
I would love to see the troops come home tomorrow, but realistically that isn't going to happen (of course they never should have been there in the firstplace - but they're there now unfortunately). Kerry will do the right thing and engage the world in a way that Bu$h never could. Then it's time to start looking for an exit strategy. The rest on Terrorism is just common sense, something that Bu$h obviously lacks.
Cheers
Damn, some of these posts by you guys are like ya'll are giving speeches too.
Does ABB merely mean Doing Bush Better? Given that Kerry never acknowledged that the Iraqi conquest was a major war crime and he had dissenters dragged out in handcuffs, would he have had any problems with it if von Rummsfeldt's white collar "cost-cutting" were scrapped for a competantly supported, more conventional conquest?
And can we napalm the people who still recite that Amerca just is not capable of not being a criminal, that we just have to accept the crimes of the future because we just have to accept the crimes of the present because we just have to accept the crimes of the past because nothing can ever bne done about any of it?
The Vietnam war was noble in intent, that of keeping the south from going communist. We had tactically and strategically (in military terms) won the war, but we grew afraid of losing our humanity because of the inevitable strain such acts place on our psyches. And in the grip of that fear we withdrew, leaving the south to its fate. Even so, it took the north many months to recover from the damage we had caused them and take the country. We lost that war only in our own hearts and minds, and souls. John Kerry was an active part of that national failure.
Whoo, boy!
And where were you in Vietnam? Little more than a gleam in your daddy's eye, I reckon.
That was tha classic "unwinnable" war. We bombed the crap out of Vietnam, out of Cambodia, Laos, Thailand. We dumped thousands of tons of defoliant. We burned villages, slaughtered civilians, destroyed lives both Vietnamese and American.
And you say were were afraid of "losing our humanity?" Does "My Lai" mean anything to you? How about "Abu Ghraib?"
We've never been afraid of losing our humanity in a war. The first thing tossed overboard in war is one's sense of humanity, because you first have to demonize the enemy so you can kill them without compunction.
And we killed a lot of 'em.
The simple truth is, that war could not be won unless we killed every man, woman, and child in Vietnam, North and South. Think Algeria (if you have any clue about the French in that country).
By the late years of Vietnam, we were engaged in wholesale slaughter and destruction there, using everything American technology could provide against the "little men in black pajamas." That was no picnic, son, and we didn't treat it like a tea party.
We lost because we were trying to do the impossible.
Go study history. I lived through it. Your ignorance of the era, is appalling.
Kerry will do the right thing and engage the world in a way that Bu$h never could. Then it's time to start looking for an exit strategy.
I understand the value of attacking Bush’s unilateralism. It’s bad policy and they are vulnerable on that front. I also think the time for multilateralism to make a real difference has passed. It’s just not credible to present “better international relations” as an adequate plan for dealing with Iraq.
Does ABB merely mean Doing Bush Better?
Not necessarily. But politics is about what is possible, not about what is just or virtuous. And "ABB" at the moment brings us closer to "just" and "virtuous" than we are going to get, otherwise.
Unless you just want a perpetual (political) war in which the perfect is always the enemy of the good.
Given that Kerry never acknowledged that the Iraqi conquest was a major war crime and he had dissenters dragged out in handcuffs, would he have had any problems with it if von Rummsfeldt's white collar "cost-cutting" were scrapped for a competantly supported, more conventional conquest?
There's quite a leap of logic there, and an insistence that only one world view is allowed, no others need apply.
While I agree that Iraq is a "war crime," a violation of international law, and completely unjustified, to leap to the idea that failure to speak of it in such terms is in fact to offer support for it, only on different grounds or with a slight tweaking, leaps over any possibility of other points of view. Not exactly a reasonable position, that.
And can we napalm the people who still recite that Amerca just is not capable of not being a criminal, that we just have to accept the crimes of the future because we just have to accept the crimes of the present because we just have to accept the crimes of the past because nothing can ever bne done about any of it?
When did we ever napalm anyone for saying that? True, we are, by and large, remarkably thin-skinned and don't like to be told our nation is not perfect....but do we napalm people for saying that? Should I fear for my house now, having just said it again?
"what the fuck is coulter going to say tomorrow?"
(a) Where the fuck am I?
(b) Where is my underwear?
(c) Do you have another line?
(d) Who are you?
(e) All of the above.
This Administration is Iran-Contra writ large. They have run this country exactly like an illegal undercover black ops plan.
Same people of course, so I guess no big surprise.
People should be reminded of iran-contra again. Few in that infamous plan were punished, but even those are now stars in this goofy group now in charge.
Didn't you think all the kids were great? Both Kerry girls, Edwards girl, Heinz. Even the little kids were behaving themselves. All very professional. Still, Elizabeth Edwards needs some wardrobe help (as a plus size woman myself, I think it's ok to say it). Maybe royal blue instead of light blue, and higher neck lines.
AOL poll
That's Bush country. If Kerry knocked it out of the park with those folks he is going to win in a landslide.
man, I'm getting more and more convinced that we don't have just rovian trolls here, seems like the LaRouche Youth Movement has been unleashed in here to troll as well..
man, I'm getting more and more convinced that we don't have just rovian trolls here, seems like the LaRouche Youth Movement has been unleashed in here to troll as well..
sorry about the double post
I don't know why more hasn't been made of it, but the very first line in the speech (which, interestingly, didn't show up in the CNN transcript anyway), "I'm John Kerry, and I'm reporting for duty," accompanied with a powerful salute, was brilliant.
The contrast between Kerry and Bush, both now and as young men, could not have been more sharply expressed in a line people would understand and remember. It was an impressive moment, and it is my expectation that we will see that sound bite many times before the election is over.
"The Vietnam war was noble in intent, that of keeping the south from going communist. We had tactically and strategically (in military terms) won the war, but we grew afraid of losing our humanity because of the inevitable strain such acts place on our psyches. And in the grip of that fear we withdrew, leaving the south to its fate. Even so, it took the north many months to recover from the damage we had caused them and take the country. We lost that war only in our own hearts and minds, and souls. John Kerry was an active part of that national failure."
-Excuse me, Mr. Kerry; you're not needed here.
Paging Robert Mc Namara...
Admiral Komack, with head buried in own ass, reporting for duty!
Olaf glad and big -
you're wonderful. I do love your posts.
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"what the fuck is coulter going to say tomorrow?"
(a) Where the fuck am I?
(b) Where is my underwear?
(c) Do you have another line?
(d) Who are you?
(e) All of the above.
gttim
gttim....are you saying that Ann Coulter is a COKE WHORE?
Hey! Lets not slander the coke whores!
the coke whores I know would not appreciate it.
Onceler, shove it!
Onceler, shove it!
Two comments. First -- after Kerry's speech, doesn't Bush look like an utter pygmy by comparison. (Who said his only accomplishment is that he's no longer and obnoxious drunk?). Second: does anybody besides me worry that if Kerry wins he's gonna turn into LBJ, i.e. trapped by political forces he can't control about Iraq?
"does anybody besides me worry that if Kerry wins he's gonna turn into LBJ, i.e. trapped by political forces he can't control about Iraq?"
Interesting - The LBJ analogy flashed through my brain as well... let's hope Kerry is made of stronger, smarter stuff.
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Folks should look up a guy named Thomas FRank. His analysis is when the Dems dont stress economic issues and they appear the same as Reps, eg free trade, NAFTA social issues take precedence with lesser educated working class voters. Clinton/ Terry McAuliffe tainted the Dems by stressing Corporate financing of elections. DEan showed there is another way.
Kerry, bitches!
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