I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Fortunately, the Spanish-speaking community has (mostly) managed to avoid being bamboozled by the GOPrano spin machine.
And what with Nero's ingenious revision of Cuba visitation rules, he managed to torpedo the one group in that community that they could more or less rely on to support them.
It's shocking how the Dems just haven't been doing this themselves until just recently...
And while we're on the subject of the Dems being stupid, why did they have the convention so early in the summer? I understand there's a rule that they can't spend matching federal funds after the convention, so the Repiglicans will have more money than the Dems to spend on campaign commercials. Was this another Dem brain fart?
And what with Nero's ingenious revision of Cuba visitation rules,....
Brilliant move, eh?
Fischer - because they didn't expect to be able to raise so much money. Fortunately, they were wrong. NOBODY expect Kerry to be flush at this point. I think I read that the campaign raised $8M on Wednesday and Thursday. That is astounding.
Anyway, don't get your undies in a bunch. Kerry is going to crush Bush. We need to turn our attention to the House and Senate. Think of the possibilities of full control. Mmmmmm......
This thought occurred to me just the other day, when a Hispanic friend was relaying to me his disgust with a certain Hispanic agency that did advertising 'dirty work' for Bush and the Republicans.
I thought, "Do Democrats make a major effort on Hispanic advertising? And if they don't, they sure as hell should!"
Democrats may feel that since they have a majority of Hispanics on their side, they would be wasting money on Hispanic advertising. But this is so wrong!
They should do some effort to bolster and secure their position with Hispanics. Plus, they should do some effort to counter the outright lies of Republican Hispanic ads.
Christian radio is another thing that flies under the radar. I tune into it ocassionally to keep the General informed about the latest trends. A couple of times I've heard Bush quoting scripture. It's not prefaced by anything--it's just aired like an ad without comment.
Tom DC/VA: Think of the possibilities of full control. Mmmmmm......
Thanks Tom, I feel better already.
Think of the possibilities of Tom Delay being in the minority. Mmmmmm......
Targeted advertising? That makes absolutely no sense. On the other hand, if it will prevent more old, rich white guys from hacking out a little Spanish during political debates, I'm all for it.
And while we're on the subject of the Dems being stupid, why did they have the convention so early in the summer?
I believe July is usually the month when conventions are held. The parties want as muh attention focused on the convention as possible and the Olympics and many people's vacations occur in August. IIRC, the Republicans announced their Sept date after the Dems made their decision. It took everyone by surprise because Sept. is very late,
Just listen, you'll hear Republicans pretending to be Democrats calling into Washington Journal complaining about Spanish language ads.
There isn't anything the Democrats can do that won't cause Republicans to complain on call-in shows. Hell, they'll make it up even if the Dems don't do anything. This is called demonization.
Any good spanish language blogs out there?
Hmmmm... advertising directed at one out of ten (twelve?) Americans...
...by God, I think you're ON to something!
Think of the possibilities of Tom Delay being in the minority. Mmmmmm......
Think of the possibilities of Tom Delay being in a pounding in the ass Federal prison. Mmmmmm......
OT,
Just another example of a corrupt Repug using others for political gain.
GREAT BEND, Kan. (AP) -- Barton County Sheriff Buck Causey, who faces two challengers in next Tuesday's primary election, has acknowledged using a county jail inmate to paint signs for his campaign, a member of the county commission said.
County Commissioner Kirby Krier said Causey made the acknowledgment in response to a question from another commissioner, Pat Keenan, at a meeting on Monday.
Richard Boeckman, the county counselor and administrator, said the sheriff also told the commission he previously sanctioned use of inmate labor to help a sheriff's department employee move and to mow his own yard.
OT: Corrente seems to think they've proven Bush was AWOL by *gasp* reading the documents from the recent document dump.
I am a confirmed Dem, since Dad lifted me up to flip the switch for Humphrey in 1968.
But Theresa's multi-culti multi-lingual roll-call was irritating to ME!
I hope (esperanza or somesuch) that was not annoying to too many people.
Listening to Xian radio?
I don't know how you can do it, patriotboy. Must be your inner General...
donkey, it didn't really do much for me either. i think mostly because it made her look like she really didn't have anything to say.
But Theresa's multi-culti multi-lingual roll-call was irritating to ME!
Troll.
You fucked up with the email addy, dude.
And the "I am a confirmed Dem" is a dead giveaway.
Better luck next time.
... Was this another Dem brain fart?
Riesz Fischer
nope, the repugs wanted to cash in on the whole 9/11 thing, doing the convention as late as possible since they are doing it in NYC, they thought they could flog the whole we're doing this at ground zero yadda yadda yadda until the cruel hard realities of Michael Moore's F9/11, the 9/11 commission's report, the stifled EPA report of airborne pollutants, stiffing the city of recovery funds etc. the 2000 RNConvention took place July 29-Aug 3, Dems Aug 14-17. this almost screwed their ballot access in IL, since there's a 67 day cooling off period, but they passed a special bill to allow aWol on despite this.
I liked Teresa's multi-lingual intro. It was a classy and expansive way to introduce the speech. Very inclusive and gracious and I think it was appreciated by the broad spectrum of viewers. It was fun!
*
Donkey and Olaf: The younger generation of hispanics (except those of recent immigration) do fine in English. But the party needs to speak to those older folks who are Spanish-only.
In earlier periods, party material in German, Polish, Greek, Italian was available in their community.
What makes today's situation more important is the sheer number of hispanics and the relative speed of their immigration.
I think the party would have done very well by having simultaneous translation of the convention into Spanish on the SAP audio, and publicizing it widely.
Hispanics now are in big pockets all over the country - this is not just Florida and the southwest. There are 10 times more hispanics in Portland OR than blacks. Cinco-de-Mayo is a major city-wide celebration for 5 days on the city's waterfront park - and at least half of the attendees are non-hispanic.
Remember, we ARE the big tent and have been so for 150 years. We should be proud that we are.
patriotboy, on our local talk radio station, they have Rush L. do little 2 minute spots on the hour and it's supposed to sound like it's a real newsbreak, except it's really just the fat frog.
Que pasta?
OT: A friend just emailed me that Robert Novak said on Capital Gang tonight that he thought the Democrats were planning to steal the election. He said the planning had been going on for the past four years, and that he'd have more to say about it in an upcoming column.
WTF??? Did anybody else see this?
GIRL: Presidente Bush, ¿por qué ha roto su promesa?
["Vot is dis mishigas? Bush, dat lying pendejo, can't possibly tink he's kidding us mit dis pretense dat he speaks español, so vot's de point? ¿Vot, he tinks ve're too ferklimpt to notice?"]
OT: A friend just emailed me that Robert Novak said on Capital Gang tonight that he thought the Democrats were planning to steal the election. He said the planning had been going on for the past four years, and that he'd have more to say about it in an upcoming column.
Was that leaked to him by a senior White House official?
Guess Nova-hack is padding his private little reality for the hard fall his world will take when Flightsuit gets his ass shipped back to Crawford come January.
Central Scrutinizer:
Adjust your troll meter.
As I wrote, I was voting for Hubert when I was 6, then McGovern, then Jimmy, and Jimmy and Dukakis and 2x Clinton and President Gore and Kerry.
Wisconsin/Illinois/Michigan/California roots.
And by the way troll,this is Esperanza, I think you meant Esperanto.
I was voting for Hubert when I was 6, then McGovern, then Jimmy...
Not unless you had a fake ID.
Everybody: See my WWW site if you would like to know my politics.
Are political blogs really blogs at all?
I've been pondering this question for the past few days. It seems to me that a political blog should really be called a "Press Release".
I thought blogs were about sharing one person's personal experience in a day to day format.
Seems funny that the press is just catching on to something that has been alive and well on the web since 1999.
Any thoughts?
At: blogcritics.org find a comprhensive primer:"If it's not close they can't cheat; beating the democrats in every election and why your life depends on it" -Know your enemy!
Patriotboy -
Are you serious about that fundy station playing clips of Bush reading scripture and then nothing else?
That's so fucking bizzare. I'm laughing about it, but in a distrubed kinda way.
Guess Nova-hack is padding his private little reality for the hard fall his world will take when Flightsuit gets his ass shipped back to Crawford come January.--MoniCA
I only wish it were, but I doubt it's a private reality. I suspect the groundwork is being laid to cast suspicion on opposition to no-paper-trail electronic voting and ultimately to discredit any Dem accusations of fraud after the election.
And no, I am wasn't voting age in 1968, but as I wrote, "Dad lifted me up to flip the switch for Humphrey in 1968." I was five years old.
My dad was an editorial writer. A principled liberal in a right-wing city. The best newspaper man I know.
Sue him. Good luck. He's dead.
Arch Stanton
Great handle. Just call me "The Man With No Name", or
Pandering is fine, but English first. The U.S. will become a Spanish-speaking country over my dead body.
OT: A friend just emailed me that Robert Novak said on Capital Gang tonight that he thought the Democrats were planning to steal the election. He said the planning had been going on for the past four years, and that he'd have more to say about it in an upcoming column.
turnabout, fair play, Bueller... Bueller, anybody?
guess they need to get some paper trails in there pronto to make sure it doesn't happen this time
OT: A friend just emailed me that Robert Novak said on Capital Gang tonight that he thought the Democrats were planning to steal the election. He said the planning had been going on for the past four years, and that he'd have more to say about it in an upcoming column.
turnabout, fair play, Bueller... Bueller, anybody?
guess they need to get some paper trails in there pronto to make sure it doesn't happen this time
As I wrote, I was voting for Hubert when I was 6, then McGovern, then Jimmy, and Jimmy and Dukakis and 2x Clinton and President Gore and Kerry.
And no, I am wasn't voting age in 1968, but as I wrote, "Dad lifted me up to flip the switch for Humphrey in 1968." I was five years old.
Best get your story straight.
And, dead or alive, I have no interest in sueing anyone.
Do you guys ignore new people on purpose or is it just me?
OT: A friend just emailed me that Robert Novak said on Capital Gang tonight that he thought the Democrats were planning to steal the election. He said the planning had been going on for the past four years, and that he'd have more to say about it in an upcoming column.
turnabout, fair play, Bueller... Bueller, anybody?
guess they need to get some paper trails in there pronto to make sure it doesn't happen this time
reality check,
No, we don't ignore people.
It's just you. 
Honestly, I think a blog is what you make it. I see them as a kind of diary or journal, and that could cover a lot of territory, political or whatnot.
Hey RC, one person's personal experience can include politics. Just because the subject is political doesn't make it a press release.
sorry about the multi-posts, my system is running a little flaky tonight
Novak is also comparing Edwards to Chickenhawk Quail. Or is that Quaile?
Anyhoo, Novak (Novake?) is parroting the RNC talking points. For money. In the English language, this is called "prostitution". Dunno what Novak calls it.
I got Eastern European roots, too. But I don't know the exact word. Whore? Hooker? I dunno.
This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.
Delivery to the following recipients failed.
thedonkey@ayteetee.net
From: Joe Jacks
To: thedonkey@ayteetee.net
Subject: Troll
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 11:05 PM
Just as I suspected, name stealing troll.
Busted, bitch.
Are you serious about that fundy station playing clips of Bush reading scripture and then nothing else?
Yes, just 15-30 seconds of Bush reading scripture. No comment or anything.
Adjust your troll meter.
As I wrote, I was voting for Hubert when I was 6, then McGovern, then Jimmy, and Jimmy and Dukakis and 2x Clinton and President Gore and Kerry.
Wisconsin/Illinois/Michigan/California roots.
The Donkey
so you were voting at age 10 for McGovern, Carter at 14 and (maybe)finally legal at 18 for Carter again in 1980? damn, you're one hell of a precocious lad/lass or maybe just a lame-ass troll who's been pwned
CNN has a repeat of Larry King show with Clinton. Watching it just makes me seeth inside. Clinton was talking about how right after Vince Foster's death, the right wing blowhards (Rush, et al) started with the murder business. Clinton said he was horrified -- couldn't believe how brutal the right wing was.
The Donkey --
I know that in Hungarian, the word is "curve". Pronounced KOOR-vah, spelled c-u-r-v-e, this cooincidence of spelling has provided many a hungarian immigrant with much mirth on our roads and highways.
Central Scrutinizer, you seem rather paranoid. People often fill in those spaces with meaningless information because some comment systems won’t let you post without filling them in and they don’t want to use their real address. What’s the big deal?
Anyhoo, Novak (Novake?) is parroting the RNC talking points. For money. In the English language, this is called "prostitution". Dunno what Novak calls it.
I think he just calls it "a job at CNN."
preznit,
Karl's got to find smarter trolls.
I sent an email to (the real) Donkey, and I'm sure he'll be amused to hear someone is stealing his handle.
Just reading his last post is enough to convince anyone that this troll is as stupid as they come.
(the real) Donkey
Gosh don’t you think that among the hundreds of thousands of people who have posted comments here it’s not possible for two to have, by coincidence, used the handle “Donkey”?
People often fill in those spaces with meaningless information because some comment systems won’t let you post without filling them in and they don’t want to use their real address. What’s the big deal?
So this person is claiming a homepage but uses a fake Email addy?
C'mon.
Que?
http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=2...719&
s=aaj071904
So this person is claiming a homepage but uses a fake Email addy?
They seem to be polite enough, why are you being so rude?
Under the radar of our media? Whose media are the ads running on? The largest owner of Spanish Language programming is a blonde-haired, blue-eyed (natural with a strong hint of Viagra) former congressman from Hawaii. I'll bet big-bucks that every major media outlet has been running those ads for years.
What the mass media knows and what it reports may be vastly different however.
antiphone,
Is pointing out the obvious "rude"?
"Pandering is fine, but English first. The U.S. will become a Spanish-speaking country over my dead body.
-Toast "
WTF are you talking about? Are you calling Hispanic advertising "pandering"? It's much more than "speaking in spanish". In fact, many Hispanic ads are not in Spanish.
"The U.S. will become a Spanish-speaking country over my dead body."
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZ(fart)ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Um, you are aware using 'ayteetee.net' is probably just to prevent automated harvesting, and the assumption is that a human being will know enough to realize it's a way of writing 'att.net'?
Nuestro nombre es "LATINOS"!! "Hispanics" is a little dated, such as "Oriental" instead of "Asian".
As a member of the NDN, I was really happy to see the new ad campaign earlier this year. The premise that is truly conveyed is that even for successful latinos, the roots and heritage of political activism has always been with the Democrats. The big lie that was perpetrated was W's and his brother's ability to speak Spanish which somehow translated to "I am concerned about your needs." Never was and is not the case. "I want your votes only" is the true message that W had in 2000 and we're trying to convey that to the masses. As our ads hit Univision and other outlets, hopefully the true nature of the Democratic party will be seen - we are for the best of opportunities for EVERYONE, not just those born into privilege.
La esperanza está por el camino!! (Hope is on the way!!)
I suddenly recall that old line: When you assume, you make an ass out of you and me.
Guess "The Donkey" may have assumed one too many times?
Nuestro nombre es "LATINOS"!! "Hispanics" is a little dated, such as "Oriental" instead of "Asian".
If I recall correctly, the term "Hispanic" is a construct of the 1980 US Census. The word didn't exist before then.
Reagan Voice: "Wehhl... there you go!"
Man, you gotta admire how tirelessly antiphone's been sticking up for the underdog on the last few threads.
If I'm ever accused of trolling, I want this fine person on my team. Truly, a fearless advocate, and a courteous foe.
This really does its best to make bloggers, including some guy called Duncan, look silly:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/0...ion/
01BLOG.html
The writer seems to find the links on the LiberalOasis blogroll some sort of discovery, and he acts like blogs are some kind of weird alternate universe.
And heaven forbid the guy actually read a blog or two for a few days to get the feel for them. Instead they are treated like some vague curiosity. What bullocks.
Oh yeah, this is vaguely on topic, and it's been bugging me for a while...
Is there a word for a Spanish-speaking person? I.e., something along the lines of Anglophone and Francophone?
Blake: it's in the f'ing fashion section. I ain't touching that.
My main concern about press covering bloggers is this: blogs get most of their raw source material from the media, if the media continue writing about the blogs... why, the very fabric of reality could be sundered by the magnitude of the feedback loop!
Or maybe there's a plan to siphon power off of it as an alternative energy source. Yes! Blogtricity!
Latinophone?
I've been corrected by a previous commentor...the correct term is now "Latino" and not "Hispanic".
I have a feeling this is correct. I am just behind the times, along with some of my Latino friends who still use the term "Hispanic".
In the Republican town I live in, the correct term is still "mezzkin."
Toast can probably relate.
a fearless advocate, and a courteous foe
Why, thank you Philalethes. You are perceptive and cunning in the ways of moderation.
just started my blog
http://donkey2004.blogspot.com/
Latinophone was one of my guesses, yeah. But it doesn't appear to be a "word". At least not according to dictionary.com or m-w.com.
Though according to a quick Google, it is used on a lot of French pages.
joby
I wish someone would post a memo. Chicano, Hispanic, Latino...
I am always behind. By the time I get to saying Latino, there is going to be something new.
Novak is right.
I have seen the plan.
I am at liberty at this time, however, only able to divulge that the Democrats in Florida intend to line up hundreds of thousands, perhaps even millions of Americans, many colored, many poor, many of whom don't speak English well or at all, and have them vote.
Bastards.
Who could have conceived such a fiendish plan?
everyonelovespete
I never use Mexican unless I am talking to a person from Mexico. Most of the folks around me call themselves Mexicanos but I do not use the word or variants since too many folks use it as a slur. It can get pretty damn confusing.
"Mexicans" is used as a slur, still, very much here in Texas. It's used by Republican friends of mine...the same group of people who pay the big bucks to get Hispanic Ad Agencies to tell lies to the HispanicLatino voters.
But most Latinos I know are still profoundly Democrat.
According to demography.state.mn.us, there were 143,382 "Hispanic or Latino of any race" in the state counted in the 2000 census, out of 4.9 million total.
So it's perhaps unsurprising that I've encountered none of the aforementioned ads myself.
EkCenTrik-
The funniest thing is that if you were ever to see me you call me.....white.
Hispanic was as mentioned earlier, a U.S. census term. It was an attempt to reconcile the Spanish speaking population.
As far as the term hispanic is concerned, its not really that big a deal, there are far worse I've been called...
I should never have started looking at census data... my inner stats geek takes over. For example, I'd find it terribly amusing for linguistic reasons if nothing else if someone tried to "court the black vote in Traverse County". Since there's exactly one black vote there.
OK, I'll keep the stats to myself now...
I agree with EkCenTric. I remember long ago when I was told that the proper term was "Hispanic".
We need a newsletter or something, to alert us, so as not to offend.
However, I have no problem with it. Each new generation will have it's own term that is preferred.
Ok, one lsat one. Blue Earth county:
Black or African-American: 666
Asian: 1000
Interestingly... precise numbers.
I guess it depends on your target audience if the ads would be effective.
A Message from Mesopotamia:
RIVERBEND IS BACK
We need a newsletter or something, to alert us, so as not to offend.
Get it straight from El Vez:
Well I’ve never been to Spain
But I’ve heard about Columbus
Well they say the man’s insane, yeah
‘Cause he thinks he discovered us
in 14 nine-two
who discovered who
Here’s how it happened...
...
Well I’ve never been to Spain
So don’t call me a Hispanic
When those ships come to our harbor
We’re going to sink them but don’t panic
That name, refuse it
Never going to choose it
I just can’t use it
I’m not Hispanic I’m not Hispanic
...
Well I’ve never been to Heaven
But I’ve been to Montebello
Well I’m sure that Spain is real nice
My native land is called Mexico
I’m not Hispanic from across the Atlantic
Soy de Mexico
I’m a mechanic from across Atlantic...Blvd.
..................................................
.............
El Vez interveiwed:
What specific issues affecting the Latino community would you like to change?
EL) Better organizational skills, better voter turnouts, less apathy, more of an economical realization... more of a face in entertainment... Latino markets we have but a broader based national American market... faces on prime time American television... which sadly to say... will turn around the other issues.
Oops, the correct link for
El Vez interveiwed
Cripes, Central Scrutinizer, lay off. You are being rude accusing someone when you are not sure. And ayteetee.net is obviously a guard against spam. Hint: think three letters.
Antiphone
I appreciate the link. Lord, it's hard to read those horrid, all-text-accross-the-screen pages!
A little graphic design, please, people. Text in 400 pixel columns, at least.
From Blake Thompson's link to the NY Times, the grafs relative to Atrios:
"It's really quite fascinating how the media is treating the bloggers and blogging," one of the best-known bloggers, Atrios, wrote on Eschaton. "First, they spend a lot of time talking about how we don't have `editors' or `fact checkers' " — and how no one can trust what appears on the Internet, "especially from those pesky bloggers."
Atrios, whose identity has been a subject of intrigue on the Internet, turned out to answer to the name Duncan at the FleetCenter. Other bloggers, and soon the mainstream press, were identifying him as Duncan B. Black, a former economics professor who is now a senior fellow at Media Matters for America, a Web-based group that monitors the conservative media. On Eschaton, Atrios quoted a report by Judy Woodruff of CNN that discussed the price John Kerry pays for haircuts, in which Ms. Woodruff named the Drudge Report as a source, acknowledging that the figure was unconfirmed. "So, Judy feels free to push unconfirmed information from Drudge," Atrios wrote sneeringly.
Indeed, Atrios seemed to assume the role of superego of the bloggers, sorting out the fellow travelers from those he viewed as opportunists. "Look, I like Wonkette and enjoy reading it," he wrote. "And given the many many media interview requests I've blown off, trust me, I'm not envying the attention. It's just Wonkette isn't really representative of blogs in any meaningful way. Happy for Wonkette getting attention as Wonkette, rather silly that she's getting attention as a `blogger.' "
Gotta love that "sneeringly"!
Yup, you sure don't get silly spin based on unconfirmed facts from them there perfessional jernamalists!
Back when I did the music critic thing, I interviewed El Vez. Cool guy with a brilliant shtick. Very, very subversive, and I've tried for years to get a band to cover his take on "Bossa Nova Baby," called "Go, Ceasar Chavez".
I may be wrong - and at this hour and as tired as I am, I probably am - but I seem to remember reading somewhere that the whole "Hispanic" tag refers to the common language of Latin America, not the idea that Spain is some sort of motherland. In any event, I'm pretty sure it's more a designation applied by the census folks and not the people in question (sorta like "Native American").
Backslider
That was pretty much my understanding too.
This has got me to thinking about the current designations in general. Latino, White, Black etc summarizes what is actually a vast degree of diversity. As a reference for demographics there does not seem to be any real logic to them. Even something more formal like Caucasian has little meaning except to anthropology. The diversity of 'White' alone makes comparisons in my view impossible.
Anyone want to suggest functional alternatives. Meaning designations that truly generate data versus lump summing everything into a few.
Lionel Sosa, of San Antonio, is one of the Kings of Republican Hispanic Advertising. I found these samples by Googling. Scroll down to see some of the silly Bush ads.
http://tinyurl.com/58mrz
OT: Greensburg PA Kerry rally makes PGH paper:
story is up online in Sunday's edition of the PGH Post-Gazette,
link is under homepage, or go to post-gazette dot com.
local teevee gave almost zero coverage to Kerry, but was all over Bush downtown here in the posh Convention center. the P-G is a Block Family Communications property, and generally not too awful.
check out the top photo of people reaching to shake hands or just *touch* Kerry after his speech (i WILL be buying the paper tomorrow if they have that photo in the print edition!)
also note that when they say "crowd stretched around 2 city blocks," that was in fact ALL THE WAY AROUND BOTH blocks, meaning a line, 3 to 5 people wide, that went for EIGHT blocks in length, like a figure eight on both sides of the streets.
and, NOW i know why we had to stand in the rain for two hours--Preznit Turkee did a surprise drive-by at that tiny train station in that small town, ONE HOUR before Kerry's scheduled rally...gee, think that messed up the security plans? not knowing that, i didn't hear anyone complain anyway--instead they looked amazed and PLEASED at the number of people waiting so patiently in the pouring rain. they were just happy to be there and be seen and see each other. and while P-G managed to find a Bush supporter from the sneak-rally, i never saw a single such person from 11 until the rally ended...maybe it was a Really Wee Troll?
forget the polls, forget the media,
the writing is on the wall for GWB. go out and see it for yourself.
and sort of ON topic-- this place is so much more troll-free in the daytime/early evening! seems around 9ish the signal to noise ratio shoots way up...so, i'll be back with the updated story in the morning (unless there is an opening for Designated Troll Handler...Librarian is Very Good at Shushing Naughty Little Boys.)
you can see my eyewitness description of the huge turnout & great reception below in the "50/40 polls" thread, near the bottom, if you want to get the inside story.
i hope to see other people share what they see, around the country, too!
WE.
ARE.
ATRIOS.
(okay, really we're just Librarian. 'night y'all.)
EkCentrik,
I agree, though I have no good alternatives. Reminds me of a joke one of my writing profs told once.
First person: Hey, I know that guy over there.
Second person: What guy?
First: The guy in the blue sweater.
Second: What?
First: He's in a blue cardigan with black pants.
Second: Still don't see him.
First: He's talking to a girl in a brown dress, short hair and glasses.
Second: Nope, still don't know who you're talking about.
First: *Sigh* The black guy.
Second: Ooooh...I see him now.
Hell, I can't figure it out.
But.....Atrios is SNEERING. See? The press NEVER lies!
It is most interesting how they view the world. Like Easterbunnybrook's view of black holes: he can't ever reach an event horizon because he is stuck in orbit around a piece of shit.
Anyone following the Crane-Bean house race here in Illinois?... Melissa Bean: A Dem putting up a fight in GOP territory...
Follow along at ArchPundit
eg, Bean getting some cross-party support:
From the Northwest Herald
Still, Crane is in trouble with some members of his own party.
U.S. Rep. Ray LaHood, a Peoria Republican, last month told The Hill, a newspaper specializing in congressional news, that Crane is vulnerable.
"Every year there's the November surprise, and a lot of people are worried that the November surprise could be Phil Crane," LaHood said.
Although Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert and other prominent Republicans are supporting Crane, locally, some are lukewarm at best in their support.
Several have complained that Crane is out of touch and tries to stand on decades-old achievements.
Herman said the Bean campaign is seeing some Republican support. A few Republican committeemen have contributed to the campaign, Herman said, although their donations are less than the $200 reporting threshold.
"A fourth of our volunteers [say they are] Republicans," Herman said.
Ok, a few points to try and get back on topic. Dammit, one of the few threads dealing with hispanics and it gets hijacked for all sort of stuff. (j/k)
First, I think the ads look great. And the Kerry ones are ok. Teresa's Spanish is a lot better though, I hope she does a couple of ads. I think they would play well. On other good news, the Puerto Rico governor funded a registration drive in states with high Puerto Rican populations. They claim more than 200,000 new voters subscribed in (you'll love the first two) Florida, Cleveland, New York, Chicago and Hartford.
About how to call Hispanic/Latinos, I grew up in Puerto Rico until I came to the US for law school. So it wasn't until I got here that I had to get tagged or classified. Back home, we're just Puerto Ricans. From what I've been able to gather, most people accept Latino or Hispanic without problem.
It seems like the West Coast, where Mexican origin predominates, prefers Latino. The East Coast, where Puerto Ricans have a bigger presence because of their NY numbers, seems to use Hispanic more.
One main distinction for example, is that Latino is more inclusive, Brazilians can call themselves Latino. Hispanic, on the other hand, is restricted to Spanish speakers.
Of course, anyone with more time in the US may correct me if I'm wrong.
Backslider
Actually that joke was an excellent point.
I think someone by the way used Euro-Mutt as a put down at one time. I sort of like it for myself.
My family's roots come primarily from Scotland but we have a dash of this and that. I guess that makes me a Mutt-American. Demographic that census bureau! We don't need no stinking crest of arms.
(rafaelh & others: sincere apologies for hi-jacking Espanol adverts conversation, i didn't mean to! chalk it up to a VERY long day and still being dazed by number of people at the rally. if i say i loved hearing Teresa's address in Spanish, Portuguese, etc., will that help? honest! 'night.)
rafaelh
I have seen some folks (Meaning Latino) here (San Antonio) place Puerto Ricans outside of the Latino\Hispanic group. I found this very odd, but they perceive Puerto Ricans as completely different. Note these folks in this instance are a handful of people I work with. I suspect for these individuals it is an education and exposure issue.
(rafaelh & others: sincere apologies for hi-jacking Espanol adverts conversation, i didn't mean to! chalk it up to a VERY long day and still being dazed by number of people at the rally. if i say i loved hearing Teresa's address in Spanish, Portuguese, etc., will that help? honest! 'night.)
EkCenTrik,
Indeed you're right. Through one of the weird quirks of fate, I grew up with a couple of children of Central American immigrants (try as I might, I can't remember exactly from where). I didn't meet 'em until junior high or so, and I remember thinking what a revelation it was to find out that not all Hispanics/Latinos were the same. Granted, I know it sounds rather provencial of me, but cut a brother some slackl; I did grow up Northeast Mississippi, where you were either white or black.
The next big revelation in the evolution of my own personal Hispanic/Latino person awareness was learning that Mexicans and Cubans (and their respective descendents) didn't like each other. And Mexicans didn't like Puerto Ricans, but Puerto Ricans liked Cubans. And Nicaruagans (or at least an ex-girlfriend) like Puerto Ricans but didn't like Mexicans or Cubans. And so on and so forth.
I've long since thought the distinction - or the lack of distinction, rather - between the different groups of anyone who isn't white is completely glossed over by your mainstream, white-bread, "average" white person. Or at least in the South, which is odd because if you call someone from Mississippi a "Kentuckian", he's libel to get steamed.
Or perhaps not. I remember a friend in college, a young lady from Columbia, say something along the lines of "all white people are the same". I told her, no, someone who grew up in rural Alabama wasn't necessarily the same as someone who grew in Downtown Manhattan. And further more, a young lad of Irish distinction who grew up in Downtown Manhattan is different than the Italian boy from down the street.
So maybe it's a concept of "outside looking in", and to The Powers That Be, the various subtle differences between different groups of Latino/Hispanic people are irrelevent; they're all brown and they're all voters.
Which leads me to another stroke this topic brings up: the different parties approach to the different skin colors. A friend of mine said today she couldn't understand why any minority would vote Republican. Frankly, it makes sense to me. People vote their interests - or perceived interests, anyway - and there's no reason a black woman or Latino man wouldn't be turned on by some of the aspects the GOP supposedly stands for. A large amount of melonin doesn't automatically make someone not a greedy bastard.
where do they come up with these hacks! this, from august 1 nytimes (What We Missed in Boston, by ALESSANDRA STANLEY):
"What was missing last week, however, was the unassailable authority that a network anchor brings to convention coverage. ...What was missing last week, however, was the unassailable authority that a network anchor brings to convention coverage. ...But particularly when there is no real news, viewers benefit from following a trusted observer who can weave together disparate strands - a rogue faction in the Colorado delegation, a candidate's use of imagery and props, the leitmotifs of even the duller speeches - and bring to life an important political moment. Instead, Tom Brokaw and Mr. Rather took this convention pass/fail, interviewing a few headliners in the sky boxes, kibitzing with their colleagues and house experts, but never engaging fully in the drama beneath them. ...Political conventions are like 19th-century novels; they benefit from an omniscient narrator."
among other complaints about this "article" are the statement repeated several times early on that the networks didn't cover it because they could not make the case that the convention was "news" yet there was "drama" in which the network anchors never engaged.
hello? hello? anybody home?
geez, i think there's noise on the line ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/0.../01stan.html?
th
I've lived in South Texas for 12 years now (OMG--has it really been that long???), and I've found that Hispanic/Latino is pretty much interchangeable amongst the locals, with Latino getting new emphasis.
But the Repub targeting of ads toward Latino voters doesn't surprise me, really. The man who runs the Univision TV network is one of the Bush Pioneers:
According to Common Cause:
A. Jerrold 'Jerry' Perenchio
Chairman and chief executive, Univision Communications Inc., Los Angeles, California
WHAT HE GAVE:
Amount raised for Bush ’04 campaign: At least $100,000
Amount contributed to Bush-Cheney inauguration: $100,000
Amount contributed to Bush-Cheney recount: $5,000
Amounts raised as Republican Regent for Bush 2000 campaign: $506,500
Grand Total: at least $711,500
WHAT HE GOT:
On Sept. 22, 2003, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) approved a merger between Perenchio’s Univision and the Hispanic Broadcasting Corporation. The $3.5 billion merger will create the nation’s largest Hispanic communications company. After the news broke that the deal would be approved, Perenchio’s holdings in Univision soared by more than $145 million.
COST TO THE PUBLIC:
Less diversity of news and entertainment for consumers, further concentration in broadcast media serving Hispanics, the nation’s largest minority group and the nation’s fastest-growing group of media consumers.
Read the rest at the link.
Ekcentric
Outside the Hispanic community? That's weird. Although our immigrant experience is a bit different from the rest of the community because of our American citizenship. However, the Puerto Ricans in NY during the 50s had it as bad as any other group, most didn't speak Spanish, etc. I know my father was working 12hour workdays for very little pay in the Bronx. He moved back to PR after a year.
And I had a guy at a bar ask me for any American document when I showed him my Puerto Rico license. Man, 106 years of belonging to the US and most people still have no clue about the island.
Coming back to your friends. I still think they're wrong. Puerto Ricans have been active in the struggle for Latino/Hispanic rights and other liberal causes.
Oye Pachucos! Votamos por la grande cabeza de mierda gringa, El Senor Arbusto. Je, je, je!
OT
Anyone hear anything honest about this "free trade" agreement just reached? Venerable is on about it being "good for everyone", the usual blather.
Since I do not speak Spanish, I tossed nur al-cubicle's post in the google translator.
This is what came back.
Pachucos Hears! We voted by the great foreign excrement head, the Senor Shrub. Je, je, je!
I am not too clear on the meaning of this.
rafaelh
Again, I think their problem was education and exposure. The exposure issue I think is the primary. But that goes into a whole different line of thought. Myth creation. They are young and I am starting to see a trend where when faced with something new, instead of asking questions and delving into it, it is easier to make things up and then believe them. And this is not relegated to Latinos.
EkCen:
It's, Guys, listen up! We're voting for that shithead white guy, Mr Bush. Hey, hey, hey!
Or heh heh heh. Like they're being sarcastic.
For those of you up late with nothing better to do, go vote here
Should Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge be paid more than $175,000 a year?
Yes
No
No is up 66-34.
Should he be paid at all? He does nothing.
chicano is a specific category. they are the descendants of the people who lived in the parts of the us which were part of mexico before. if you want to learn spanish they are good to hang out with because they talk kind of slow. the drawback is that they speak really bad spanish.
In the Marines the Texicans would speak English until their vocabulary or grammtical skill ran out, then switch to Spanish until the same problem brought them back to English. PR's and New Yoricans made fun of them for this.
K&Y
I have a very good friend has spent quite a bit of time shoring up his local Spanish with a more polished version. He does this so he isn't laughed at when talking to a customer from Mexico. From what I gather the TexMex blend is fairly rampant with slang. However since I am not bilingual, I can't be a judge of that directly. Lately he and I have been talking about phrases and/or words which do not translate well in either direction. It got me to thinking if there are ideas for lack of a better word that are actually alien between two language groups as one side or the other do not have exact word in the vocabulary. Oh well now I am rambling again and wondering why I am sitting here at 8am on a Sunday reading a Blog.
Oh yeah, I killing time until the waffles are done. Thats why.
Mexican Spanish is supposed to be pretty unique and is kind of the closest to an autonomous dialect-if you compare the Spanish of various Central American states they're pretty similar to eachother, it's more of a regional or continental than a national thing as it clearly is with Mexican.
In Arabic, things are slowly breaking up like what happened to Latin in Europe, so that the North African, Egyptian, Levantine, Saudi/Iraqi/Gulf, and then of course Classical blocks are rather distinct (though you can still get by, sort of). This was kind of a problem in Iraq because the Eqyptian Arabic is severely and pointlessly different, and because America had been in the past working militarily more with Egypt than anybody else, the "standard" Arabic quickie guides were actually Egyptian Arabic and useless outside of that country.
Teresa, with her muy bien Espanol, ought to be a very effective liasion to the Hispanic community. I hope they are smart enough to use her.
spanish is pretty fragmented too. i actually speak it, and for a while i used to be proud that spanish speakers would ask me where i was from. i thought it meant that i was speaking spanish like a native speaker. eventually i realized that i was simply speaking it in a way they hadn't heard before, and they were curious. i don't have a gringo accent though. apparently i sound nicaraguan. no idea where i picked that up though. i have met exactly 3 nicaraguans in my life.
Still, Crane is in trouble with some members of his own party.
I read this and thought, "surely that scumbag isn't still in the House?". It took a little checking to prod my memory into recalling that it was Phil's brother Dan who in 1983 was caught screwing a 17-year-old page, censured, and barely saved from expulsion from the house by that moral paragon Henry Hyde.
The Cranes' father was a moralizing psychiatrist in Chicago whose syndicated column I remember reading in the Quayle family's rag when I was growing up. Sort of a print-media Dr. Laura, except apparently a real doctor.
oops, sorry about the missing link. Try this
Bush es un estúpido, hijo de perra, que no sirve para nada, y no voy a votar por él.
Republican translation done by the media:
Bush is very smart, a son of Babs, he's very useful and I'm definitely voting for him.
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