I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Holy Mackeral - Talk about condemnation!
Gone by morning
A most ear-opening interview this week with John Kerry's former commanding officer in Vietnam, who told the Kevin McCullough Show in New York that he had asked Mr. Kerry to leave his unit in Vietnam after the issuance of his third Purple Heart.
Former Navy Lt. Thomas Wright said he frequently was forced to confront Mr. Kerry over willful disobedience to orders while aboard Swift Boat patrols.
He told radio host Kevin McCullough that on frequent occasions Mr. Kerry would randomly fire at "things he thought were moving" along the shoreline. The lieutenant stated that protocol was to fire only when the unit was receiving hostile fire. He explained that part of the patrol's goal was to develop contacts with noncombatants living along the rivers.
He said when confronted about his defiance, Mr. Kerry would either claim he didn't hear the orders or insist that he thought "he saw something" moving.
The former commanding officer's boldest claim was that after Mr. Kerry received his third Purple Heart, he and two other ranking officers flat-out asked the now Democratic presidential candidate to leave his unit because his behavior put the group in greater vulnerability and danger.
Mr. Kerry, he said, replied that he would not leave, "but was out of there by morning."
All the polling looks good for this week. I'm nervous about next week becasue of all the lying attacks ads. I hope they don't have an effect.
HEHEH, and this is coming from FOX INTERNALS...
My, how WILL they spin this?
I suspect they won't, and will opt for suppression, instead.
Oh, the heads are exploding today!
woot wooo!
Tony B.
People aren't as dumb as Bush and Cheney wish they were.
Thersites... the neo-con GOP are really going to have to get their lies straight. One says Kerry shot himself and didn't face danger. This says Kerry was Rambo and was too gung-ho to find danger.
I wonder if the neo-cons even recognize those two stories don't work together.
Wow! And that was a Faux poll!
In what bizarro world is Bush more courageous than Kerry?
Looks good, worried about a couple of potential road bumps: 1) Bushies drag out Bin Laden a couple of weeks before the election 2) demonstrators go wild outside the Republican Convention & Bushies paint the Democrats as a bunch of hippie demonstrators (of course, the media will have shots of the craziest looking demonstrators).
The Repub propaganda against the demonstrations might be their last gasp at turning things around. I'd love to see a solemn, candle-light procession honoring the 1000+ Americans killed in Iraq, as the core demonstration against the Repubs. Real quiet & civil, a zillion flags, a reading out of each American killed in Iraq. This would win them over in the heartland.
Bush's unfavorables have gone from 12-13% after 9/11 to 45% now. Unbelievable.
Bush more knowledgeable on the issues? That brain-dead goofball is as dumb as a pile of rocks. A broken clock is right twice a day - better results than the Preznit.
People aren't as dumb as Bush and Cheney wish they were.
Taxes
Bush 41
Kerry 42
also, for the first time, more people disapprove of the job Bush is doing than approve. You cannot win with these numbers.
OT, but still about polls. I'm sure Ruy needed a break, and August is the traditional slow month, but I'm missing Donkey Rising a lot lately. And its only been a week. I'm just going to ignore all polls until he comes back.
You can't win with this numbers - but you can probably cheat.
Again.
these numbers, I mean
Bush is suffering from flipflop sweat
It does seem as if the more desperate they get because of polls like this, the more trolls hang out here. Of course it also makes me worry about the next dirty underhanded dishonest tactic on its way against Kerry. Hang on people, it's coming.
Name-stealing troll forgot Thersites' Email. It is funny, though, to see the cognitive dissonance that characterizes wingnuttery, even on the same issue.
They can't seem to figure out whether to lie about Kerry being a whimpering, self-inflicted wound-having, "only" 4 months in the Mekong Delta serving poltroon, or to lie about Kerry being a risk-taking, teen VC back-shooting loose cannon.
Come back when you get your lies straight, folks. On second thought, don't bother.
They can steal anything that isn't a landslide. I am half sick of shadows.
Wow.
A quick perusal of the numbers (I was reading them to my boyfriend over the phone) indicates that Kerry is only getting part of his poll jump from Bush. A significant chunk is coming from the undecided ranks.
example:
WHICH CANDIDATE IS:
- A strong leader
Bush 44 (was 50% two weeks ago)
Kerry 40 (was 31% two weeks ago)
Bush lost 6%
Kerry picked up 9%
The 3% came from the undecideds.
But, as my boyfriend reminded me, we have 3 months to the election. We must continue to work hard for Kerry.
its coming You're right but:
WHICH CANDIDATE HAS BEEN MORE NEGATIVE SO FAR?
Bush 35
Kerry 31
Take this for what its worth, but a work mate of mine relayed to me the story of an apolitical friend who has decided to pick the candidate who runs the least amount of negative ads, last I heard, this person has already decided to vote for Kerry.
This result is just...boggling:
- More knowledgeable on the issues
Bush 43 (was 48% two weeks ago)
Kerry 40 (was 32% two weeks ago)
How, after 4 years of demonstrating in a painful and embarassing fashion how little grasp of -reality- he has, let alone policy issues, can people answer this way?
Scary.
Astoundlingly, Bush beats Kerry in "Hard Working". Kerry's team should be able to dispell that myth without even breaking a sweat.
Bush has taken more vacation time than any other president.
Bush spent almost half of his first year on vacation.
Bush was on vacation the whole month before 9/11, despite numerous warnings that a strike was imminent.
What the hell kind of president takes so much vacation time during a "war"?
Clearing timber while on your vacation doesn't count toward "hard work" as it relates to your job.
Don't you wish you had a job with so much paid vacation time?
Any of those talking points would do nicely. Throw in a few mentions of Bush's privileged upbringing & that he avoided hard work for the first 40 years of his life & badda-bing! end of myth.
BTW, the leadoff "bombshell" our little bastard is trying to foist off as news in the first post is from - you guessed it - the Washington Times.
Apparently Rev. Moon's fishwrapper has lost so much credibility over the past decade even lowdown name stealers (lowest form of trollery) are embarrassed to cite it.
The only thing I don't like about this news is that it hugely increases the odds of a terrorist attacks.
And ditto to what Carter said.
bannedmann: ...the neo-con GOP are really going to have to get their lies straight.
Well, they don't have to get their lies straight if they're not called on it. It does seem, though, like I'm hearing the creaking of the timbers on the USS Mediawhore. Soon some major outlets will capsize, and then we'll know Bush is in serious trouble.
I'm betting on CBS and the NYT flipping first.
It's a good start, but I'm still worried about what repulsive, slimely tactic the rove crew will dream up.
Because I'm certain they won't accept defeat gracefully.
The -registered- voters, folks, the registered voters.
This is beautyful. Just beautyful.
Thanks for not linking directly to Faux...
Carter That by far would be the most INCREDIBLE protest imagineable. All demostrators wear white each holding a candle and saying nothing. Get them all to just stand there. It would send no more pointed a message than any "bike messenger" rasta-headed anarchist could ever accomplish...And yet these protestors never seem to realize this.
Off topic:
Bush & Co continue to compromise intelligence...
Defending the recent orange alert, they outed the undercover Pakistani agent who provided the intel...
See Juan Cole
I just saw the "Hunting of the President" and so my view of the world is colored by that at the moment. I was getting so angry in the theatre I could hardly sit still in my seat especially whenever Ken Starr's mug was on the screen. I went home and had a glass of wine to calm down.
So what is past is past. But what is important is not to underestimate the lying memes that will be sent out to poison the air until November. The more we get polls like this, the more those on the right with money and power will be plotting.
Is it any wonder that someone would OFF-topic post the newest Swift-boat lie on a thread about Kerry's bounce in the polls?
In what bizarro world is Bush more courageous than Kerry?
Well, on 9-11 he bravely ran away.
- Courageous
Bush 40
Kerry 39
No words can describe how dumb the 40% who favor Shrub are.
Yeah, it was obvious we have a bloviating identity thief on our hands, who perhaps should spend more time explaining w's whereabouts and blood alcohol content when his country needed him....
Sooner or later cognitive dissonance makes your head implode, and we can all do without the gravitational disturbances, so have a good cry, release your childhood fantasies about being king of the hill, and come join us in reality.
So I'm sure FOX has been busy broadcasting these results to their audience. Yeah right.
Assuming Bush doesn't manage to steal this election, I think it's pretty likely he's going to lose. What will all of his followers and arms of propaganda do when they end up losing? They are going to extreme measures to shore up a losing movement.
And this crap about Kerry was being spewed on a radio show in NYC?
Latest New York poll results:
Kerry 51%
Bush 29%
Hahahahaha.
(from this link provided by hadenough on First Draft)
while monitering the propagandist at faux, i have noticed they are injecting the name Saddam Hussein alot more these days...faux audience is usually the workshop for the bushies new campaigns...thus i foresee a accerlerated trial with "evidence" of OBL ties and WMD transfers...
People think he's more optimistic. People think he's more honest. People think he's as friendly. People think Bush has run a more negative campaign.
People are thinking well.
If I were Kerry, I would have a big chart made of recent month-to-month job growth, and recall Bush's claim that we are "turning the corner". Will make for devastating mockery of the liar.
People think he's more optimistic. People think he's more honest. People think he's as friendly. People think Bush has run a more negative campaign.
No surprise. The people voted for Al Gore.
Keep in mind that this is a Fox News poll. Fox News, Bushco's personal cheerleading cable *news* station, known for deliberately slanting its stories and misinforming its audience. The fact that Kerry's numbers have risen so dramatically can only spell trouble for georgie.
Fox is incapable of reporting anything without a right-wing slant. Imagine how good that poll really was!
No matter what, I am just plain scared to death that the Bush faithful are just too damn stupid to see thru him.
Testing . . .
Hah, as the Germans would say:
"Die beste Freude ist die Schadenfreude."
Good news.
Faux changed their polling methods according to speculation at MY DD to allow for a post RNC bounce for Bush.
People think he's more optimistic. People think he's more honest. People think he's as friendly. People think Bush has run a more negative campaign.
No surprise. The people voted for Al Gore.
Heh. Nice one, Alice Marshall.
Every new set of numbers I see is a little bit better for Kerry.
Even with Ohio swinging back toward Bush, Big John's magic number keeps growing.
Like many here, I wonder what slimey tricks and "coincidental" terra alerts await us in the next 3 months.
Keep getting the word out. Keep grinding away on your friends and family, your co-workers and classmates.
Remember, we have a huge advantage. THE TRUTH IS ON OUR SIDE!
My mom has turned from traditional Republican voter to "no way I'm voting for that crook Bush" to "maybe I will vote for Kerry." My sister and I are going to put our heads together tomorrow and figure out what more we can do in the community.
...i can't be sure but during dufus's challenge to Se. Kerry yesterday...I think he used the words "he (kerry)should be straight with the american people"...it makes one wretch...
Here's one for the tin foil hat / cynics extreme camp:
What if Fox "News?" started underreporting Bush's poll numbers to set up a fake "bounce" from the Republican convention?
The Faux Poll numbers could then justify the strong Bush vote from districts using Diebold paperless voting machines...
BTW, I recall a news story from 2000 stating that exit polls had suddenly become inaccurate - with the inaccuracies favoring Republican wins in Diebold voting machine districts. Coincidence? Tin foil hat time? Remember, you're only paranoid if you MISTAKENLY think they're out to get you.
Good stuff, this. And Americablog doesn't even mention that GWB's job approval is down to 45/48; his previous low in a Fox poll was 47/45.
You guys keep forgetting that because Lance won the tour de france, Dumbya is gonna win the election.You can read about it here
and (whore alert)here
I can't quite understand why but I get a kick out of the Chris Rock movie head of state. I can Imagine Bush acting like the vice presidential candidate in the movie. And when he looses, he lines up his aids and punches them one after another, while crying. A funny scene.
Stealing Thersites' name? Oh yeah, that'll work...
Everywhere I look these days, from the smallest things to the biggest, I see the Right biting off more than it can chew.
I'm enjoying it!
http://www.electoral-vote.com/
My favorite site...for now.
Good stuff, this. And Americablog doesn't even mention that GWB's job approval is down to 45/48; his previous low in a Fox poll was 47/45.
"Faux changed their polling methods according to speculation at MY DD to allow for a post RNC bounce for Bush."
matt
"BTW, I recall a news story from 2000 stating that exit polls had suddenly become inaccurate"
RepubAnon
As an open minded NutJob, I remember chatter about the supposed unreliability of the exit polling data during the evening of the election and remember thinking how odd that was, and I kind of forgot about it during the ensuing mess of recounting. I would leave nothing beyond these crooks including the cooking of polling data.
You can pretty well guess that even us dumb ole Westerners have got things figured out when KOOL-FM, the -oldies- station, goes off on the obviously political terra alerts. In between the Ronettes and the Beach Boys no less...
landslide, bitches!
Anybody around here know where I can get stats breaking down the previous presidential elections by gender.
I share Renato's enthusiasm, but plan on keeping the eyes on the back of my head open.
On the other hand I think that K/E has a chance at the largest percentage of female votes in a while-just a theory, but I would like to take a look at some historical numbers and my google attempts to date have not led to fruition.
Thanks in advance.
The -registered- voters, folks, the registered voters.
This is beautyful. Just beautyful.
GWPDA
I read someplace that the registered voters they're sampling aren't counting new registered voters who are determined to vote Bush out. Like many of the anti-war demonstrators who didn't vote in 2000 but registered to vote in this election. I just hope it's not close enough for them to steal again.
Interesting poll.
Kerry got a big bounce in New Jersey, where it also seems to be all Eddie Vedder/Springsteen on the radio.
A post-convention bounce gives Sen. John Kerry a 49 – 36 percent lead over President George W. Bush among New Jersey voters, with 6 percent for independent candidate Ralph Nader, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today. With Nader out of the race, Kerry is ahead 52 – 38 percent.
This compares to a 46 – 40 percent Kerry lead, with 7 percent for Nader, in a June 23 poll by the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University.
New Jersey voters give President Bush a negative 43 – 53 percent approval rating. Approval ratings among men and women are the same.
By a 54 – 40 percent margin, New Jersey voters say it was wrong for the United States to go to war in Iraq. This is unchanged from June 23. Men say 55 – 41 percent that the war is wrong, similar to 53 – 39 percent among women voters.
Something about their sampling of registered voters who only voted in 2000 and who are likely voters and not newly registered voters they're overlooking. May be wrong, though.
wonder what his poll nos. look like after this gets around? Juan Cole has this.
Why in the world would Bush administration officials out a double agent working for Pakistan and the US against al-Qaeda? In a way, the motivation does not matter. If the Reuters story is true, this slip is a major screw-up that casts the gravest doubts on the competency of the administration to fight a war on terror. Either the motive was political calculation, or it was sheer stupidity. They don't deserve to be in power either way.
in case that's not serious enuf. the other day i joked about kerrys' hair being tougher than georges', on terrorism. lieu and behold i just saw a 10 min. piece on it, on fox. screaming, with his hair on fire indeed.
Voter News Service (VNS), the collaborative effort of corporate media, have abandoned exit polling. Since the exit polling didn't match the "results" the obvious thing to do is abandon the one thing that might show stolen elections.
When you think about it, it's not surprising that his *internals* and job approval rating is going down. Not that many dumb people could possibly keep buying the load of shit this guy's been sellin'.
But Bush is going to steal the election again regardless and our country, the world and all of us are going to hell when that happens.
Anyways, gotta scoot.
Laterz....
Take this for what its worth, but a work mate of mine relayed to me the story of an apolitical friend who has decided to pick the candidate who runs the least amount of negative ads, last I heard, this person has already decided to vote for Kerry.
That's good, but yeesh, what an idiotic way to choose your vote.
That's what I hate about elections: They turn on the votes of people who make decisions like this.
A good friend just called me from a Kerry/Edwards campaign stop in La Junta, CO (tiny little town an hour or so south of Pueblo... large crowd, very enthusiastic, talked a bunch about Health Care and a little about the war... and my friend said that Edwards just shines as a public speaker, radiating sincerity.
September 15
New York --
After a monumentally successful Republican convention, Commander of the Faithful George W. Bush has made an unprecedented turn-around in popularity. Call him the comeback kid!
That's good, but yeesh, what an idiotic way to choose your vote.
That's what I hate about elections: They turn on the votes of people who make decisions like this.
Enraged Water Heater
Does anyone know how I can find out what my Election Day horoscope says?
(Don't worry, Enraged. We Scorpios are all independent thinkers.)
That's what I hate about elections: They turn on the votes of people who make decisions like this.
Well said. I don't think Shrub will survive in Nov. Even stupid people will be fed up with him by then. He creates a new disaster every week because of incompetence. What fresh hell awaits next week?
Watch em tumble tumble keep tumbling.
Bush had a bad week: Oil prices record high, the Dow and Nas tank two days in a row, new job report sucks, the blown undercover AQ thingy, and those Swift Vet pricks(which will only hurt Bush).
As much as those Swift Assholes made my blood boil, in the grand scheme of things that story has already sputtered and died and anyone who buys into it is a brain dead farm animal(lots in the GOP these days)
Steve in CO - yes, the train's going thru to Flagstaff, and then they'll take other forms of locomotion to Vegas.
At least for a brief moment the Kerry campaign will be travelling on I-40 in Arizona, today designated the Purple Heart Trail.
Carter; mental-almost-telepathy? I won't repeat the whole thing, but I commented at the end of a dying thread (pop quiz) that there should be a really peaceful demomstration on the Mall after the 1000th GI is killed. 1000 candles, extinguished one by one, in total silence.
Oh those wily trolls! They sure are clever with their name stealing.
And with their politics. These Swift Boat Vets for Spreading Smears sure are going to help the Bush campaign convince voters that Bush isn't running a negative campaign! Yep, smear the war hero, cost W the election. Brilliant strategery, guys. Keep 'em coming!
That's great GWPDA! I am just sad I had to miss it! Oh well, for a good reason though, My wife and I are picking up our second Foreign Exchange Student (see www.ayusa.org) from the airport this afternoon. Doing our tiny, but important part to communicate to our fellow human beings, that not all Americans are mouth-breathing warmongerers.
bank on finding osama and the anthrax killer in the next month. who knows, maybe even another staged terra attack.
I don't think Shrub will survive in Nov.
Frankly, I don't think Shrub will survive until November.
The guy is seriously unraveling.
Osama? I give it a 60% probability. Anthrax killer? Near zero, since all of the freeping Bush drones have completely forgotten about that (since he attacked Dems)...
(another) staged terror attack? I can't see a black ops unit going along, but what I can see, is through bungling and incompetence another occuring on Shrub's watch.
Yipeee!
We're discussing "swift boat lies" from the Kerry camp again.
dun dun dun...
Frankly, I don't think Shrub will survive until November.
The guy is seriously unraveling.
Steve Gilliard's been making the argument that a lot of Kerry's speaches have a subtext designed to question Bush's manhood and send him over the edge.
Note how the deluge of "Swift Boat for Truth" accusations came out right after Kerry's little bit about how "I would have told the children that the President has something to attend to and left."
Kerry has Bush rattled. That's why Rove ordered the Swift Boats for Lies campaign released so early.
1000 candles, extinguished one by one, in total silence.
G. Goober Goober
Goosebumps, just imagining this.
But then, the silence is broken by G.H.W. Bush's inaugural speech:
"I have spoken of a thousand points of light..."
How about the nice attempted coverup up of campaign Kranish's role in creating "swift boat lies?" They are now claiming he never helped author a campaign book for Kerry?
Can someone spin this for me please.
Can we give John Kerry some credit here. Remember all those democrats who were asking why Kerry had not attacked Bush more forcefully? This guy is like Lance Armstrong, running the perfect race over a distance. Also for those questioning his ability on the stump(the John Kerry's not a great public speaker crowd), remember that the same thing was said about Clinton.
I understood that the train would be coming through Kingman. But train or bus either one it'll be good to get to see him here.
genoasail,
If there were a God, Dubya would have another run in with a pretzel, Chestpainy would get bitched slapped by every family who has lost a loved one in Iraq (not just US families) one at a time, until he is a bloody pulp... okay, perhaps I am being a bit morbid, but funny how anger over the complete clusterfuck of an Administration (and Ann Coulter had the audacity to call the Clinton Admin the most corrupt) can cause you to have a dark fantasy once in a while.
OT - For those of us who have to get up early and can't listen to it live on AAR,you can access Mike Malloy's archived shows on the The White Rose Society web site.
Enraged Water Heater:
There are lots stupider ways to pick a candidate, and a whole lotsa people use 'em. Some vote just because of the Party affiliation, some because they've been told to, or they're afraid not to. Some because that's the way their Daddy always voted, some because they like the candidate's smile, wardrobe, voice, whatever. Others will vote for someone they can't stand, because they think it will improve their situation somehow. There are probably some who close their eyes and pull the first lever they come to.(neat trick on a touch-screen rig, hehheh). This guy/gal at least made a decision based on something the candidate actually did, which makes him/her an above average voter.
Counting down like kids on Christmas to the 1000 death mark in Iraq.
Asking for the U.S President to Die.
Hoping for the beating of the Secretary of Defense.
Why do you hate America?
Can we give John Kerry some credit here. Remember all those democrats who were asking why Kerry had not attacked Bush more forcefully? This guy is like Lance Armstrong, running the perfect race over a distance. Also for those questioning his ability on the stump(the John Kerry's not a great public speaker crowd), remember that the same thing was said about Clinton.
He's been hammering Bush.
And Bush lost it competely by having the Swift Boat campaign released. This makes Bush look terrible.
Thus the poll numbers indicating Bush is more negative.
That's Bush's main so called appeal, his so-called likeability and even Kerry's supporters tend to think he's a bit stiff and pompous.
So that negative number has to be bad for Bush. Kerry is rattling him.
I am preparing myself for the biggest let down yet. Sen. McCain, after being so disgusted with the negative Swift Boad ad, and having been a victim himself in 2000 of Bush's deceptive, filthy, stop at nothing to win, campaigning. Watch McCain go on the week long campaign trip with Bush. If he does, he has lost all my respect forever. What an opportunity for McCain to stand up to Bush, and what a monumental payback for 2000.
Kranish did not author anything for the Kerry campaign anything else is a mistake or a Drudge lie-
the Boston Globe article explains the confusion but Kranish did not author any part of any book for the Kerry campaign. He has written an unauthorized biography of Kerry perhaps that is why the twits of the right are confused.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp...3-
2004Aug6.html
"On Thursday, Kerry told a convention of minority journalists that he would have reacted more decisively to the news than Bush, who continued reading with a group of Florida schoolchildren for seven minutes after an aide whispered the news into his ear. It’s a scene that filmmaker Michael Moore uses to skewer the president in his anti-Bush movie, “Fahrenheit 9/11.”
“I would have told those kids very nicely and politely that the president of the United States has something that he needs to attend to,” Kerry said.
The candidate’s wife, on the other hand, is not so sure an abrupt response would have been the right one. “I think the president behaved correctly in terms of being quiet amidst stunning news like that in a classroom of kids,” she told the host of MSNBC’s “Hardball With Chris Matthews” during an interview before the Democratic National Convention last month. “You know, what can you do? It takes you a couple of minutes to digest what you have just heard. And then he was . . . not in his White House and in his office with all of his people. He was in the school in Florida.”
sloppy, sloppy.
I just don't get the Swift Boat smear campaign. No matter how I add it up, all I get from it is: Kerry showed up, and did the best he could, Bush dropped out, didn't even bother to keep his flight status current.
Let desperation reign!
Funny how trolls can't even get their facts straight even when it is just two comments up...
I hate what our foreign policy has done to America, not America itself. Get a grip and a life and go have fun and sniff yourself (wondering if the idiot will get the play on his screen name?).
Um he wrote the introduction to the official campaign book.
http://tinyurl.com/5nkow
Goober, that's what I'm pushing...
but we call it, 'A THOUSAND POINTS OF LIGHT LOST'
1000 points of light vigils all over...
by the Bush administration, the Bush administration today released the name of a covert under-cover Al-Queda double-agent today in a show of strength. "We did it once to one of our own and by god we can do it to another country's as well." said Karl Rove on Meet the Press.
"IF any other country thinks that it can capture terrorists better than us, then let them come forward." Said President Bush. "Why just yesterday, we captured a mastermind terrorist who said he was working for both sides. We beg to differ. We stopped his infiltration of Al Queda dead in it's tracks."
Repeatedly trolling in an online community, even though it you know its useless,
Thinking that the Preznit is God,
Hoping for the Secretary of the Defense to beat someone, anyone, with skin color different from yours,
Why do trolls hate themselves?
"Kerry got a big bounce in New Jersey, where it also seems to be all Eddie Vedder/Springsteen on the radio."
Wonder what that old humbug David Broder will say?
"Unmasking of Qaeda Mole a U.S. Security Blunder-Experts" - Reuters.
Frankly, I don't think Shrub will survive until November.
I've thought of that myself. Do you suppose the Republicans will decide to nominate someone else? Is that why Colin Powell has put up with all the indignities? Because he thought the whole thing might collaspe and he would be the last man standing? Or will they choose Chuck Hagel and trust to his magic touch screen voting machines.
"Running agents within a terrorist organization is the Holy Grail of intelligence agencies. And to have it blown[by the bush administration] is a major setback which negates months and years of work, which may be difficult to recover."
Holy fuck these guys are...IDIOTS.
It's funny how Bush supporters are labeled "racist" based on nothing but being for Bush and critical of Kerry.
Thanks for the inspiration.
The desperation that results from campaign Kranish's story is amusing.
Why is it sloppy? Because Elizabeth Edwards had a different opinion than John Kerry? Ummmm...so? Good for her, though I doubt she's the type to "follow orders". Sure, the wingnuts can/will try to spin it as "dissention in the ranks" or some such rot. But hell, if she'd have agreed, the wingnuts would've spun it as "she's marching in lock-step and has no thoughts of her own" or some such balderdash.
It's funny how Bush supporters are labeled...
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....
Kranish did not write the introduction that is the same error repeated..
The Boston Globe and The publisher of the book both make it very clear that Kranish has nothing to do with the Kerry campaign book.
Like all Republicans I see you can only depend on lies to make your feeble little point
When VNS finally released the national data on the 2002 election, they opted not to release data for individual states at all.
Just in case somebody was going to try to extract state data from the released data, VNS included this disclaimer:
This data set is properly sampled and weighted to reflect the views of all voters nationwide in 2002, but it should not be used to analyze voting behavior in individual states. As in previous years, VNS in 2002 developed a national sample and, in a separate process, created statewide samples with different questionnaires and weighting procedures in each state. Nearly all of those state-level interviews are not included in this data set and no valid analysis of individual states can be made without them. Do not select respondents in a specific state and analyze their responses separately; any attempt to do so could easily result in invalid and misleading results.
[emphasis by VNS!]
So, just in case you can't find the 14-point last-day swing in the Georgia data, it's just because, you know, you shouldn't...
gee maybe that is why Teresa is not running for President
Nothing yet on FauxNews about the Pakistani whose Al Queda cover we blew for a politically motivated terror alert...right after the Democratic Convention that Kerry didn't get a bounce for boo hoo.
But did you know that Jenna Caught A Big Fish!
It's true! I saw all the pictures! Man that's a nice fish!
Wow, the frothing over nearing the 1000 death mark is really disturbing.
Why do you hate American soldiers and wish them death?
Oh wait,your own partisan political purposes?
It is funny how Kerry supporters are labled unpatriotic when to dissent has ALWAYS BEEN THE SIGN OF A HEALTHY AND FREE SOCIETY.
Just wait until Kerry wins, and the neo-nuttery bandwagon will all of a sudden realize that it is their patriotic duty to malign and redicule the POTUS and his policies... funny how the freepers prior to their fellow traveller getting elected were all about dissent and anti-government and whatnot.
Katherine did you examine the cached link of the campaign book with Kranish's name on it?
Or did you just begin spewing based on what soros and Media Matters told you?
http://tinyurl.com/5nkow
http://tinyurl.com/5nkow
http://tinyurl.com/5nkow
http://tinyurl.com/5nkow
Campaign Kranish.
The only desperation is the flop sweat coming from Republicans who have to lie to sustantiate their point
And speaking of being ashamed what about the shameless manipulation of Elliott who is on record supporting Kerry and now that his memory is failing the liars try to take advantage of him. The swiftboat liars had to have his wife speak for him.
I suggest you go to the Boston Globe website if you know how and read the story. There is no doubt that Kranish had nothing to do with the Kerry book and the commercial sites advertising the book are wrong.
Jack, just saw that story on KOS re the outing of the mole. I am surprised its not bigger news.
here is the url: http://tinyurl.com/6dex7
It is deeply disturbing.
I never labled Kerry supporters unpatriotic... only those of your who are pre-orgasmic over the 1000 death mark.
ex: Atrios.
And Bush lost it competely by having the Swift Boat campaign released. This makes Bush look terrible.
It's really true. These Swifties really do come across as a kind of a cross between Gollum and the Dennis Hopper photographer character in Apocalypse Now. The smear is so over the top that the Bush campaign looks thuggish as hell--bad news for the perceptions about his campaign. They're also going to be drawing inevitable comparisons with Bush's "war record," which the Bushies don't want, especially.
Why do you hate America?
Now that's funny. Comedy gold!
"Kerry got a big bounce in New Jersey, where it also seems to be all Eddie Vedder/Springsteen on the radio."
Wonder what that old humbug David Broder will say?
susan | Email | Homepage | 08.07.04 - 4:10 pm | #
Also note that New Jersey is a swing/moderate Republican state. And Kerry is heavily favored.
The media's done a bit of slight of hand. They've labled traditional swing states like New Jersey safe Kerry states and conservative states like Iowa swing states.
I'm not sure exactly how the electoral college numbers are breaking down so far, but the media's assuming now that the cultural mainstream is Iowa and Missouri and not New Jersey and Michigan.
And since Kerry is competative even in the conservative heartland, Bush has to be in trouble.
Check the link Katherine.
Who's lying again?
I smell desperation from the Kerry camp.
I read in the Boston Globe in an article not by Kranish and I heard Mike Barnicle say--
unlike you I do not depend upon instaliar for my links
Um. check the link or STFU.
http://tinyurl.com/5nkow
http://tinyurl.com/5nkow
http://tinyurl.com/5nkow
http://tinyurl.com/5nkow
Ignore the racist troll. You don't want to get close to the bigotry or the hate.
Katherine since you wont.
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=c...y+edwards&
hl=en
"Kerry and Edwards: Their Plans and Promises delineates issue-by-issue the promises and the plans of the Kerry/Edwards ticket. In his introduction, the Boston Globe's Michael Kranish offers penetrating insight into the policies of a Kerry administration, and what they could mean for America.
Kerry and Edwards: Their Plans and Promises cuts through the rhetoric to the details of the "Real Deal." Now Democrats and Republicans alike can judge for themselves exactly what the Kerry/Edwards ticket is offering America in what is shaping up to be one of the fiercest, most passionate political contests in generations"
Ether is a liar
everyone knows the mistake came
from one source
Kranish did not write the introduction
Care to make a bet ether
or are you too chicken shit to
put your lies up.
Again, namecalling of "racism" based on nothing but Bush support.
Intelligent.
Imagine that a troll who doen't now how to do elementary HTML!
sloppy, sloppy.
Tersa isn't running for president of the United States. John Kerry is. As a mother, I would say the same thing. The welfare of children is important.
But the president has to have the best interests of the country in mind when he is reacting.
The entire country. And certainly on that day, ether, the people living in New York and Washington.
He failed.
It would be interesting to know how each of these polls corresponds to the volume of shredding and disk-wiping being done in Washington from now through January. If there's a blackout in Washington in November due to excessive demand, we'll know why.
Drudge is standing by his story and has the cached versions of the book for sale with Kranish's name on it.
Provide a link showing otherwise and I'll retract.
You see, I have a copy of "Our Plan for America." It does not, in fact, have an introduction by Kranish.
I wonder how fiercely the pugs would defend bushCo if drudge posted, even for 1/2 hour a link to the MSNBC article on how bushCo BLEW THE FUCKING COVER OF AN AL QUEDA OPERATIVE soley for political points to say they caught a "terrorist" who was in fact SO DEEP IN AL QUEDA the info they could have gleaned is now forever lost.
Fucking TRAITORS!
Score: bushCo 2, spies 0
"Frankly, I don't think Shrub will survive until November.
I've thought of that myself. Do you suppose the Republicans will decide to nominate someone else?"
Heh, I've wondered that myself, Alice. But who would they get to run that has a chance in hell of getting elected? No Republican in his right mind would take the job on such short notice. They would have to sweet-talk some idiot into running.
I bet Colin Powell will put as much distance between him and the neocons as he can.
.
I also watched The Hunting of the President this afternoon (although I have a nice pirated copy to watch at home). One cannot underestimate the lengths this crowd will go to to stay in power.
One thing I noticed in the movie was that Larry Nichols, the right-wing zealot trying to profit from selling false Clinton stories, was once fired by Clinton. He was using his office time to raise money for the Contras.
So a common profile for these people seems to be white male, right-wing ideologue, militantly anti-Communism, and also perhaps racist and homophobic.
John Kerry must really piss them off. He's the one that "led the fight" to expose Reagan's Contras policy. He wanted peace in Vietnam. These people think he's a traitor. They will stop at nothing to attack and discredit him, and it is beginning again with the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth
It's really true. These Swifties really do come across as a kind of a cross between Gollum and the Dennis Hopper photographer character in Apocalypse Now. The smear is so over the top that the Bush campaign looks thuggish as hell--bad news for the perceptions about his campaign. They're also going to be drawing inevitable comparisons with Bush's "war record," which the Bushies don't want, especially.
Rove/Bush seem to be trying to make Kerry back off the comments about Bush's national guard record with the Swift boat veterans.
Kerry should pick up on this and hammer Bush harder on the AWOL issue, pick at his manhood, diss him like the punk he is.
Bush and Rove are already scraping the bottom of the Freeper barrel for their campaign issues. If they go any lower, you're going to see Bush scream "terrorist" at Kerry in the debates.
I seriously think Bush just *might* lose it if the debates are unscripted enough and that's why the control over the debate rules is going to be so important.
I smell desperation from the Kerry camp.
ether | Email | Homepage | 08.07.04 - 4:19 pm | #
No, that smell's that dead horse you're beating. Jay-sus... debunked and passed on, and you're still humping this one tiny leg. Frankly, the whole thing is put to rest in my mind because the U.S. Navy's basically said everything's kosher. And I'd guess they'd know, wouldn't they?
Hey, here's an idea. Ya got anything positive about Bush that'd make me change my mind? Anything that would appeal to my progressive nature and say, "Hey, maybe I should give this guy a third chance..."
Anything, hmmm?
OH LOOK! A KITTY!
Then I retract, if based on your word, you say the name is not on the actual book.
ether you ignorant slut:
Frothing? Where the hell do you get frothing? As for wishing them dead, you cannot possibly actually think that, so I'll ignore it. By way of explanation, if you're willing to absorb it, those 1000 soldiers are going to die. There ian't a God Damned thing any of us here can do about it except get angry. That isn't hate you think you see, it's anger. The 1000 points of light being extinguished one by one is not a celebration, it is not a party, it is mourning. Mourning with extrene prejudice, if you will. If the Lost Light ceremony does take place, folks like you would do well to steer clear.
If there were a God, Dubya would have another run in with a pretzel
Steve in CO
But this has always indeed been one of the backup plans. An Anthrax-Snax attack by Pretz-Al-Qaieda, or other damage to the GWBody and GWBlood, justifies invocation of the Executive Orders King George the Turd signed months ago, in His prescience. Why do you think, of all the Things-That-Walk-Like-A-Man tainted with Bush genetic material, the most expendable was chosen?
Remember, these poll results are only good if there is an election, Cheney agrees to vacate his (slightly-disclosed-location) sewer-drain (like Saddam's hidey-hole, only with better shag carpet and wet-bar), and there's anything left after their equivalent to Saddam's setting-oil-fields-afire, between Nov. 2 and Jan. 20.
Karl, Rummy, Condi, Teddy Olson, and the rest of the Hee-Haw gang have already conceded a fair election. They no longer deem it worth the effort to manage Dubya's every word, and expect his natural display of intellectual skills to divert attention from their disappearance. At best, their retreat is to plot guerilla warfare against the Kerry Administration.
Sleep well,
ether,
i've looked at your link. the title of the book kranish is the intro author for is called "Kerry and Edwards: Their Plans and Promises". the book kerry and edwards have published for their campaign, also according to the site (and that most of us here know) is called "Our Plan for America".
"Kerry and Edwards: Their Plans and Promises cuts through the rhetoric to the details of the "Real Deal." Now Democrats and Republicans alike can judge for themselves exactly what the Kerry/Edwards ticket is offering America in what is shaping up to be one of the fiercest, most passionate political contests in generations."
as opposed to:
"Our Plan for America presents, in full scope, Kerry and Edward's map for the next four years and beyond. Here, in thorough detail and accessible language, Kerry and Edwards delineate point-by-point the most urgent challenges facing America today, and their plans to redress these, including: (etc.)"
your trolling is definitely above the average i've seen on this site, but i would argue that you're wrong in this case.
Atrios, post the Pakistani SPY STORY ALREADY!
Not a single TV "news" channel has covered it (as far as I've looked (last news cycle)
Still, a side issue from the point that the Globe. The intentions were the same.
I still find it odd that Kranish's name appears in relation to the book on Barnes and Noble as we speak.
email Kranish care of the Globe
ombud@globe.com and ask him
Put your money where you mouth is.
If you think Drudge is the way to go
back it up. If you go to Boston.com you can find the article in the politics section.
It is very clear The author is Susan Milligan.
Still, a side issue from the point that the Globe misquoted Elliot. For partisan purposes?
Big A with the smackdown on the little -ether-shaped tribble,
now is the time for no more feeding, mmkay?
Sorry ether, if you supported the war the blood of the troops is on your hands.
Why don't you guys go and see if there is another agent you can out to suit your political purposes?
Go Cheney yourself, ether. The pretzel, bitch-slapping thing is a joke! As for the rest, how about a little respect for the troops we never wanted to get killed in the first place.
I said I retract the side issue basedon Atrios word that his name appears no where on the book.
He claims he has a copy.
Still, a side issue from the intent of the article. Which was to discredit SBVFT based on "swift boat lies" and blatant misrepresentations.
If there were a God, Dubya would have another run in with a pretzel
Steve in CO
Actually, if there were a God, George W. Bush would've died in a plane crash in the 70s and Jim Croce would be President.
Ya know, the Barnes & Noble listing for Kerry and Edwards: Their Plans and Promises has Kranish writing the introduction. However, this book doesn't hit the streets until Sept. 9. So I wonder if he was supposed to write the introduction and wound up not doing it, or did the interview before he interviewed the Elliot cat (and isn't that the same guy who made positive comments about Kerry's service back in '96 or so?).
Or, conversely, The Globe isn't counting that, or it's not the "official" book of the campaign.
And most importantly, I wonder why we're still discussing this. Someone shoot me.
Ether
you are so lame
It's just more of the same crap.
Can't discredit the story bang on the messenger. I'm waiting for your explantion of ONeil's manipulation of Elliott a man who is clearly suffering "memory" issues and in the past and in writing thought Kerry was just fine. But suddenly he can't speak for himself...only his wife can.
Nice people you have allied yourself with. I guess in your world reporters do double as pr writers for politicians. The rest of us are still hoping for an unbiased media.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com...586483145&
itm=1
???
Explain.
ether,
Did you see this comment from eve?
i've looked at your link. the title of the book kranish is the intro author for is called "Kerry and Edwards: Their Plans and Promises". the book kerry and edwards have published for their campaign, also according to the site (and that most of us here know) is called "Our Plan for America".
And the 250 other SBVFT Katherine?
They also having "memory" issues?
ether, i believe this was your point:
"How about the nice attempted coverup up of campaign Kranish's role in creating "swift boat lies?" They are now claiming he never helped author a campaign book for Kerry?"
which you announced you would retract given the evidence.
the evidence has been offered, and you, in someone's infamous words, just
spin
dodge
spin
Jack: I hear you. But I am still surprised why this isn't bigger news? Its as if Bush is being true to his most recent statement: always thinking of new ways to harm this country.
Is there some reason news reporters are discounting this Reuters story? Does anyone know?
"Don't Call Me Daughter" just came up again on my radio.
That anti-Bush campaign must really be hurting Eddie Vedder.
It's really funny. "Ether" is obviously trolling to keep the Swift Boat story alive. If you disprove one of his points, he'll just make up another one and push it until you disprove it.
Rush is pushing the "well if the Democrats are responding to it it must be true line."
None of them seem to realize that the more you slander Kerry's military record and the more you have to clarify it, the better he looks.
They really are utterly out of the mainstream.
The Globe has published a separate book by the same publisher which might account for the confusion. It is an unauthorized biography of Kerry. He was never supposed to write the introduction to Kerry's book. We are still talking about it because people like ether read instaliar and bring it up. It's an attempt to boost the credibility of the people running attack ads against Kerry. By slinging mud on ethical reporters who expose the truth.
The media's done a bit of slight of hand. They've labled traditional swing states like New Jersey safe Kerry states and conservative states like Iowa swing states.
What's gonna happen if/when Kerry/Edwards begin to run away with it? the media need a horse race, they think, to sell soap, tires, and beer. Won't a landslide upset of a sitting War President be good enough? My guess is no. But what will they do to make it look close?
[/tinfoilhat]
And the 250 other SBVFT Katherine?
Did they serve with Kerry, ether?
I'll concede the title of "official" having been shown wrong. It is still undeniable Kranish is a Kerry goon and misquoted Elliot to create"swift boat lies."
ex:
http://
search.barnesandnoble.com...erid=Mo5wjLp9gm
Still, a side issue from the intent of the article. Which was to discredit SBVFT based on "swift boat lies" and blatant misrepresentations.
ether | Email | Homepage | 08.07.04 - 4:34 pm | #
still a side issue from the MAIN INTENT OF THE TROLL which is to DISRUPT THIS THREAD DISCUSSION.
which IIRC, is that EVEN FOX'S poll numbers, show us that Bush is in TROUBLE.
all your little troll spatter cant change the fact that Bush is LOSING THE ELECTION.
Yes pie, Steve Gardner was Kerry's CREWMATE.
google please.
Don't believe Kerry's "swift boat lies."
And the 250 other SBVFT Katherine?
Did they serve with Kerry, ether?
pie | Email | Homepage | 08.07.04 - 4:39 pm | #
That must have been one big ass PT Boat.
Eve: I retracted my assertion that Kranish authored the "official" campaign book.
Read my posts before you spew please.
I still stand saying he is a Kerry goon.
http://
search.barnesandnoble.com...erid=Mo5wjLp9gm
Amen Mattj!
:-P
Bush and Rove are already scraping the bottom of the Freeper barrel for their campaign issues. If they go any lower, you're going to see Bush scream "terrorist" at Kerry in the debates.
I about peed myself over that one! That's good one.
the other 249 did not serve with Kerry and ONeil wasn't even in Viet Nam at the same time. Douglas Brinkley who has written a biography of Kerry and is a well respected historian said the attacks are not true and that it is shame they are attacking Kerry's record in the war when what they are really angry about is what he did after the war.
Mike Barnicle said all of these charges have been investigated and dismissed in previous senate races
Elliott supported Kerry in 1996 against William Weld.
justathought:
FYI: the election hasn't started.
Did the original Elliot article set out to discredit the SBVfT? How do you know for sure its intent, no matter how it came off. I thought it was merely a story about a guy who said he "really didn't mean it", and now says he was misquoted. Perhaps he was, but I was in the business long enough and around enough loudmouthed assholes who didn't know that "on the record" means "I can print everything you say until you say otherwise" (more or less). And maybe, just maybe he changed his damn mind. Still doesn't matter, to me, until the U.S. Navy decides to strip Kerry of his medals.
And I still don't quite understand why we're still hung up on a 30-year-old war, or, frankly, this particular issue.
"I'll concede the title of "official" having been shown wrong."
Will you concede your mother's a whore, and you're a chip off the old block.
Pie?
The goon around here is you.
ether's also known as starting fluid- if you have a engine that won't catch, give it a shot in the air intake and it'll fire right up. Ya gotta be careful though, too much and you'll send said engine to kingdom come.
it's also said to rot your brain if you huff it.
if Kerry was such a hazard someone should have had him up on charges AT THE TIME. Instead his service reports shine like, say, a thousand points of light
Bush and Rove are already scraping the bottom of the Freeper barrel for their campaign issues. If they go any lower, you're going to see Bush scream "terrorist" at Kerry in the debates.
I about peed myself over that one! That's good one.
bigvic | Email | Homepage | 08.07.04 - 4:42 pm | #
Bush will be making Rachel Corrie jokes and using terms like "sand nigger" on natinal TV.
That's how marginalized his support seems to be getting.
Right now he's running to his hard right base and ignoring everybody else.
What's next on the media agenda, Utah and Idaho as that "mainstream" America Kerry has to appeal to?
And the other 249?
Kerry was a commander, and I'm supposed to be concerned because someone who served with him didn't like him?
I've never been in the military, but plenty of people here have. But I have worked, and I know I didn't like everyone I worked with.
You want perfection, ether? You want someone who's universally liked and respected?
Please. Grow up.
Backslider
It seems Kerry is trying to run on his war record.
We welcome it.
Ok so when your claim is shown false you label your own point irrelevent?
thanks for the inspiration.
re: your barnes and noble link
ether, kranish is a boston reporter. he's been covering kerry for 20+ years. only one of those books has been released; the others are informative for those interested in learning about kerry now that kerry is in the pres campaign. if you've covered politics for many years, and the same characters are in place for many years, don't you think you have an ideal standpoint from which to inform voters? wouldn't you rather hear from someone in austin about gwb than someone in LA?
Ok so when your claim is shown false you label your own point irrelevent?
Whom are you addressing, ether?
Mr. Kate has been saying, since Kerry sewed up the nomination, "Kerry. Landslide." It's nice to finally hear him echoed, on Air America, and here. Finally, even worry wort me can see it happening.
It's not working. A friend's father was leaning to Bush but the Swift Freeper campaing disgusted him so much he's undecided.
Keep pushing it.
And since Bush is ordering hit campaigns by FreeRepublic, what next?
The KKK writing press releases? How deeply can he cut into his "base" before he's so far out of the mainstream he winds up losing Utah and Texas?
Ok, i'm done for now, you can resume your pre-1000 death orgy of joy now.
Sorry to interrupt the planning for your U.S soldier death candle party.
Geez, you guys don't get it. Read Uncle Remus. Kerry is Brer Rabbit, and Vietnam is the briar patch. He was born in the briar patch, dumbass, born in briar patch.
ether really, really, really doesn't want to talk about poll numbers I guess.
Last week he would have been pushing the "no convention bounce" line. Now he's running from it.
you pie.
you say none of them served with him blah blah blah.
then when shown wrong you dismiss the relevence.
election PROCESS (or campaign) vs. election DAY
if the tribble thinks the election hasnt started yet, the tribble is dumber than the candidate it professes to support.
once again, the point of this thread:
Poll numbers from the right wingnuts' favorite network show that Bush is losing.
tribble spatter will not change this.
These poll numbers are good. but if I remember Gore was leading Bush after the dem convention. And that was the only time he was leading.
I do know that Kerry has a much better fighting campaign and they will not sit still for the next month until after the republican convention. But I need to remind myself that the election is still 3 months away. And they are becoming worried.
Two stories that are simmering, well three actually with the outing of the Pakistani operative, is rumors out in blogworld of more proof that Rove is planning on running more and more terror alerts with increasing urgency up until the election; and second that there will be more on the prison scandal in September (after the repub convention).
I was thinking that Kerry would try to stay tied with Bush until after their convention and then late September pull out all the stops. And surge ahead before Bush can react.
But still, a hopeful day. Now if we can just discredit further this lying boat crew.
It seems Kerry is trying to run on his war record.
We welcome it.
ether | Email | Homepage | 08.07.04 - 4:45 pm | #
Huh...from what I've seen, Kerry's running on his stances on the economy, health care, national security and education. Yeah, his war record has been a part of it, but one could make the same claim for Bush. He claims to be "honest" and have "integrity", but he's ducked and dodged on some many inquiries that have about as much revelence to what's going on now as Kerry's Nam service.
Like I said earlier, you beat this like a drum, but can you give me one good, solid reason why I - a very left liberal - should vote for Bush?
Well?
Ether,
Remove the mask from your nostrils. It's causing you to black out and spin dizzily.
I think Backslider has the right comment --when the Navy strips Kerry of his medals call me.
But about the war. My brother served in Viet Nam and I asked him how he felt about all this. He likes hearing it discussed particulary as it relates to the war in Iraq. He thinks there are lots of similarities between Bush and Nixon especially trying to say if you do not support the war you are unAmerican.
Ether: Learn to embed or shorten a fucking LINK, or don't post here.
Since you've totally fucked Haloscan, I am far less tempted to continue
reading your bloviations and increasingly purple prose about
"preorgasmic frothing." So thank you for providing that one idiotic
service.
Now can we have a new thread that hasn't been blown to shit? Preferably
a troll-proof one?
SWR: I will concede your point on polls...
ewww...
Why do you think i've been practicing my SBVFT talking point for the last 2 days.
We're riding this into november.
This and our terror busts.
Curiously, how can we find 250 people (who, apparently, 249 did not serve with Kerry directly) who will go on record saying Kerry's unfit...
... yet we can't find a single person to place Bush actually serving in the TANG?
Does this not strike anyone as really stupid, or what?
"Ok, i'm done for now, you can resume your pre-1000 death orgy of joy now.
"
that's the best, most blatent dodge i've seen in a while.
good work, ether.
ether, you lost. No one here wants to see any more soldiers die. You, who supported this war, were obviously too naive to understand the horrors that were surely to come. You sit in front of your computer, far away from Iraq, and have no conception of the reality.
I hope you never have to experience it firsthand. If you survive the experience, you will never be the same. You may very well wish you had died in a faraway place crying for your mama.
Backslider:
Kerry has said he will give Iran enriched uranium.
that's enough for me.
He also said we need a "softer approach to the war on terror." That's more thna enouogh for me.
I can provide links if you don't believe me.
Why do you think i've been practicing my SBVFT talking point for the last 2 days.
We're riding this into november.
This and our terror busts.
Yes. You will. Since you can't run on the economy, the war in Iraq, Bush's record as president, you have to run on Freeper lies and fake terror alerts.
Enjoy having your ass handed to you in November and enjoy it when Bush comes across like a bumbling fool in the debates.
I can almost see Bush bring up the Swift boat slander in the debates and Kerry handing him back his head.
That could be the nail in the coffin for pretzel boy.
Bush gave a big speech last week about how his faith is so "important" to him.
In this attempt to convince the American people that we should consider him for president, he announced that his favorite Bible verse is John 16:3.
Of course the speech writer meant John 3:16, but nobody in the Bush camp was familiar enough with scripture to catch the error.
And do you know what John 16:3 says? John 16:3 says; "And they will do this because they have not known the Father nor Me."
Bush said he never stops thinking of ways to harm our country, ether.
Where was Bush while he was supposed to be in TANG?
Ether, you might not be a dumb troll, but I can't give you a lot of credit until you can make a better case then that...
sorry pie I marched in S.F against this war 5 times.
I just want the betetr man to finish it.
Ether = blehz0r
I just want the betetr man to finish it.
So do I, ether. So do I.
tk: Kerry's stance on Iran nuclear proliferation.
Explain.
I can provide links if you don't believe me.
ether | Email | Homepage | 08.07.04 - 4:54 pm | #
Oh, man, please do. That first one is a helluva claim to make. The second, I think, is opinion. Anything besides unilateral pre-emptive invasion is, I guess, a softer approach, though.
Still, those are reasons to vote against Kerry, not for Bush. Dig what I mean. I can't run my life on negativity, ya know.
All the polling looks good for this week. I'm nervous about next week becasue of all the lying attacks ads. I hope they don't have an effect.
I think the ad will backfire. I'm more interested to see what effect the latest job nos. have on the polls.
Note. Let "ether" run with the Kerry and Iran story.
If Kerry's smart he'll pin down Bush on Iran.
If a lot of swing votes knew just how hard the neocons are pushing for an invasion of Iran, the landslide for Kerry would get bigger.
You do want to bomb or invade Iran, right ether?
Ether = blehz0r
ether | Email | Homepage | 08.07.04 - 4:55 pm | #
Well, shit...that explains everything, now. Christ, I remember you, you'd make Arthur Murray jealous you dance around answers so much. Serious "blood from a stone" type guy.
one sec backslider i'll get that.
Anything besides unilateral pre-emptive invasion is, I guess, a softer approach, though.
Backslider
Unless of course we're talking "soft in the head," in which case Bush's approach was about the softest thing he could've done.
ether, bush's stance on invading countries that have wmd's (but don't) while ignoring ACTUAL threats.
You marched against the war? And you're still voting for him? My head just exploded.
You also didn't answer MY question, troll, merely tried to replace it with one of your own.
I, in fact, welcome Bush's clear plan to run on his "War on Terror" record, which amounts to "More chatter, be afraid!" and now "Less chatter, be afraid!" Not to mention the utterly incompetent outing of a mole we'd managed to work into al Qaida, in the service of their latest "orange alert" fear-fest, as someone cited way upthread...
The racist troll swine is still here? Enough of this white supremacist BS. He's a racist, racist, racist.
We have an affadavit which proves it. An AFFADAVIT. Yep, in that affadavit, proof of his racism. And sexual deviancy. What a sick, sad excuse for a person... Of course, we love the sinner, but hate the sin!
Racist.
SWR I want the U.N to confront them first.
They've been kissing the mullarchy's asses up until now.
Still huntin backslider... the Kerry quote, I suspect, was a misspeak so i'll leave that lame one aside. The Iran position is troubling though.
Instapundit is just plain stupid.
He has picture of the Boston Globe Book about Kerry in which Kranish is listed. It is an unauthorized bio and Kerry did not give interviews for it. But he is so lazy and gullible he doesn't get that it's two separate thing. He thinks that's the campaign book. No wonder the Republicans are going down the tubes. Oh right he's not a Republican he's a libertarian..at best he is a contrarian but today's posts on the Kranish issue show him to be the lazy and stupid pundit.
Like when he couldn't find a Kerry speech through google duh.
Maybe ether is instapundit. sounds about right
How do goopers arrive at the idea that people who tried to stop troops being sent to die for lies are now somehow thrilled they're dying for lies?
Oh, I forgot ... the Chickenhawk in Chief can't take responsibility either. Rummy also has amnesia:
http://tinyurl.com/3lzbj
Rumsfeld also fielded questions about proposals to create a national intelligence director. He said it's a good idea, but warned that centralizing all intelligence under one individual could stifle competing views that need to be heard. "The last thing you want is everyone thinking alike"
OSP chorus: Forget what the CIA says, Iraqis will greet us in the streets with rose petals and chocolates.
You know what you lamers should be pumpin on the screens... Bushes WMD joking, WHY have you fools not put that in an ad yet. If you don't you deserve to lose.
That pissed me off.
Heh, ether, pissed me off too. But bear in mind, that would raise Bush's "Candidate I'd Like To Have A Beer With" status, a poll factor that in our media's eyes is bigger than intellect, speaking ability, or policy wonkishness.
Also, Bush says he doesn't drink anymore. So it's useless. But you know what I mean.
SWR I want the U.N to confront them first.
They've been kissing the mullarchy's asses up until now.
I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about Bush. What does Bush mean when he criticized Kerry for not wanting to "go on the offensive."
To me it looks like he's playing to you and your fellow Freepers about Iran. To me it looks as if he's sending a message to his hard right base that he's in favor of Invading Iran.
That has to get out. So keep pushing the line about Kerry and Iran. The average American isn't as stupid as the average freeper. He/She will catch on.
I see the troll picked up Thersites' email addy after someone pointed out he left it out in the first post.
Everyone is right, too, ether. Bush will certainly go for Iran in a second term. Would you vote for him and yet march against another dumb war?
Kerry: Iran
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5570503/.../site/newsweek/
"John Kerry regards an Iran as a state sponsor of terrorism armed with nuclear weapons as unacceptable. He has a multiple-part strategy that is much more realistic than the Bush administration's. One is to rejoin and work through the international legal framework on arms control. That will give greater force to the major powers if they have to deal with violators. Secondly, he has laid out, I think in the most comprehensive way in modern memory, a program to secure nuclear materials around the world—particularly in the former Soviet Union but also in the places where research reactors have existed that could be susceptible to proliferation. The point is to try to prevent Iran from ever getting this material surreptitiously. Thirdly, he has proposed that rather than letting the British, the French and the Germans do this themselves, that we together call the bluff of the Iranian government, which claims that its only need is energy. And we say to them: "Fine, we will provide you the fuel that you need if Russia fails to provide it." Participating in such a diplomatic initiative makes it more likely to succeed."
the "international community" has had puckered asshole syndrome on this one and kerry wants to rely on them to ensure Iran stops its proliferation...?
ewww.
We have an affadavit which proves it. An AFFADAVIT. Yep, in that affadavit, proof of his racism.
This proof of ether's racism in a sworn affadavit troubles me. That's pretty solid evidence. Why doesn't he just admit his racism and hang his head in silent shame?
That pissed me off.
Sure it did.
You guys keep hoping something, anything, will appear.
heh.
Rusty Charlie,
i think the Bush's are running their campaign based on this little gem, from the sheepherders guide to world domination:
Malachi 2:3
"Behold i will corrupt your seed, AND SPREAD DUNG UPON YOUR FACES."
sound familiar?
Tk: no, we know Iran has resumed nuclear production, our intelligence thought Saddam was doing the same, I didn't. I wouldn't march against a war with Iran.
...dig, crazy ether is discrediting jk for a coke head, who ran like the bunnypants he is without even leaving the u.s.!!! And then ran like the bunnypants he is on the 11th!!!
ether, get off the stuff, you've gone kkkrazzy!!!
Are mosquitos a race?
*Thersites*, you forgot the danged email address.
(not necessarily an ad hominem type of guy, but jeez, that felt good)
rusty charlie 4:54 pm ---- do you know if there is a link to that speech?? i would love to show that particular part to a few people!!!
Pie: you support Kerry's suggestion of GIVING NUCLEAR FUEL TO IRAN?
Exit polling. This one has mystified me for nearly 4 years, now. What got lost in the Florida scam was the fact that exit polling called it correctly for Gore. Whatever you think of exit polling, and there are good reasons to deplore it, it actually has an excellent track record for accuracy. Remember, the polling asks people who they think they voted for, not how their votes got counted or not counted. Based on that, before the republican fraud machine kicked in, Gore was correctly picked as winning. They are going to try and steal Florida again. The Dems better be prepared.
d
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5570503/.../site/newsweek/
"Thirdly, he has proposed that rather than letting the British, the French and the Germans do this themselves, that we together call the bluff of the Iranian government, which claims that its only need is energy. And we say to them: "Fine, we will provide you the fuel that you need if Russia fails to provide it." Participating in such a diplomatic initiative makes it more likely to succeed."
Nuclear fuel to Iran?
What does it mean, ether, to give nuclear fuel to Iran?
Tk: no, we know Iran has resumed nuclear production, our intelligence thought Saddam was doing the same, I didn't. I wouldn't march against a war with Iran.
ether | Email | Homepage | 08.07.04 - 5:11 pm | #
So when is Bush going to level with the American people that if he's elected, he'll arrange a little border incident as an excuse to invade?
Thirdly, he has proposed that rather than letting the British, the French and the Germans do this themselves, that we together call the bluff of the Iranian government, which claims that its only need is energy. And we say to them: "Fine, we will provide you the fuel that you need if Russia fails to provide it." Participating in such a diplomatic initiative makes it more likely to succeed."
you support Kerry's suggestion of GIVING NUCLEAR FUEL TO IRAN?
Hahahahahahaha!
Anyone else want to point out the joke here? It's pretty obvious, though Rubin is speaking somewhat unclearly...
"Arrange":
Sadr=tool of sistani
Sistani=tool of the mullarchy
Iraqi resistance=largely focused by Iranian ordered shiites.
Are you really going to defend Iran?
Pie: you support Kerry's suggestion of GIVING NUCLEAR FUEL TO IRAN?
ether | Email | Homepage | 08.07.04 - 5:14 pm | #
Do you support Bush's plan to invade Iran after he's elected?
How do you feel about the use of nuclear fuel in this country, ether?
Pie: you support Kerry's suggestion of GIVING NUCLEAR FUEL TO IRAN?
ether | Email | Homepage | 08.07.04 - 5:14 pm | #
Dude. Your own source says he plans to work diplomatically, supplying fuel to Iran (rathern than them getting it surreptitiously) in an effort to secure ALL the nuclear material in the world. Not weapons-grade enriched uranium, as you originally claim. Good gravy, put some tinfoil on your antennas, man, you're signal's coming in fuzzy.
He plans on working with the rest of the world to handle a problem that affects the whole world? Sweet leapin' Jesus, head for the hills.
Again, no positive reason to vote for Bush. Just using fear and negativity; bad vibes, man.
Yes SWR.
But I would prefer a student revolution for Democratic reforms.
...I fully support giving every good little boy and girl a shiny new penny..Now take your nap ether, you're a fussy little boy, now aren't you?
Are you really going to defend Iran?
ether | Email | Homepage | 08.07.04 - 5:19 pm | #
Are you saying Bush should invade Iran?
Backslider: What has the U.S done to stop Iran's nuclear proliferation to date?
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/def..._2-8-
2004_pg4_9
“We would like Iran to stop nuclear fuel cycle work, but Iran sees its suspension as just a temporary measure. Therefore, no substantial progress was made,” the source told AFP."
Wow that U.N is tough.
But I would prefer a student revolution for Democratic reforms.
Hope Johnny isn't listening in, ether.
If so, I'll bake a cake with a file.
Yes SWR.
But I would prefer a student revolution for Democratic reforms.
So you're admitting that if Bush wins, we'll have another pre-emptive war against Iran? And then Syria.
Because I want you to talk about this as much as possible. Outside of Little Green Shitballs, it scares people and it's going to drive people towards Kerry.
But *if* there really is a danger from Iran on WMDs, then you *have* to vote for Kerry. Bush has already lied about the WMDs in Iraq and nobody in the US or the world is going to believe him. Kerry will be much better equipped to deal with it.
wow, the tribble certainly has correctly labeled itself.
ether, shapeless, conforms to whatever pressures are put on it, now it seems to want to be a disgruntled anti-war(!) activist.
smarter monkeys please.
oh and did you guys know that the FOX tv network's OWN POLL NUMBERS are saying that chimpy is in trouble?
seems to me that was a relevant bit of info at one point.
No SWR I am saying the U.S had better confront them or we will have to....
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/def..._2-8-
2004_pg4_9
“We would like Iran to stop nuclear fuel cycle work, but Iran sees its suspension as just a temporary measure. Therefore, no substantial progress was made,” the source told AFP."
"Iran announced on Saturday it had resumed making parts for centrifuges used for enriching uranium.
Although Foreign Minister Kamal Kharazi asserted that Iran was committed to a suspension of enrichment itself, he did say, “No country has the right to deprive us of nuclear technology”.
No SWR I am saying the U.S had better confront them or we will have to....
I'd glad you're admitting you're not part of the US.
Nice Freudian slip there Misha.
SWR:
Iran has acknowledged it's resumption, there are no intelligence questions here.
Unlike Iraq.
Which I marched against.
Whatta troll is our little El Chupacabra Grande! Why he can't even embed a link. I know kids in 5th and 6th grade who embed links on their very own homepages that they have crafted.
But El Chupacabra Grande, who, in his trollish ignorance, has never learned to either embed a link or use the mind-boggling easy to use TinyURL.com presumes to lecture us all on John Kerry's military record, based upon the bought and paid for lieing liars of SBVfT who, save for one man, it seems, never severed on the same boat at the same time with John Kerry, and a doctor who, it seems, never even treated Kerry's war wounds.
Please, El Chupacabra Grande, it is to laugh!
Oh, and I have here in my hand, an affidavit that states unequivocally, that your mother STILL CRIES when you attempt to seduce her. AN AFFIDAVIT!
LOL
U.N
I wouldn't march against a war with Iran.
Even our Nazi-like aggression in the fifties against Iran was extremely difficult and bloody: the fighting in Tehran was literally from a room to the next room, building to building. Iranians are linguistically, ethnically and religiously homogenous, have excellent mountain ranges, and while they are moving on their own away from the Guardian Council they would not forget what we did to them or tolerate more interference.
You ignorant parasite, playing with the idea of raping Iran as if it were Grenada or Panama, just a simple no-hassle slaughter of brown-skinned poor farmers---this unforgivably nonchalant acceptance of the idea of committing to an Iranian war is worse than any of your deliberate ommissions!
And of course it goes without saying that one does not have to actually support the troops in any way, let alone some liberal craziness about signing up, to support the war.
ether, as others have said, if you marched against the war five times, it's inconceivable that you would still be backing the Worst. President. Ever.
Sorry, kid. Like georgie, you have no credibility.
Have a nice evening.
justanassaninethought:
thanks for the ad hominem
and the inspiration.
SWR:
Iran has acknowledged it's resumption, there are no intelligence questions here.
Unlike Iraq.
Which I marched against.
ether | Email | Homepage | 08.07.04 - 5:25 pm | #
Doesn't matter. Bush has no credibility with anyone outside the US on the issue of WMDs in any capacity and not much credibility in the US.
What will happen if he's reelected is that he'll have only one plan (invasion) designed to appeal to his Freeper base and no real solutions.
You have to vote for Kerry.
That should be "served", not "severed".
I plead too much blood in my caffeine stream!
guess i'm just an ol flip flopper like you boy Kerry ehh?
clear distinction in cases:
Iraq=intelligence questions
Iran=no question
I am no a pacifist.
ether, as others have said, if you marched against the war five times, it's inconceivable that you would still be backing the Worst. President. Ever.
"ether" has to learn how to tell better lies.
I didn't march against the war 5 times, more like 3.
If he marched against the war 5 times in San Francisco he'd have to be a hard core Answer supporter.
And since he's spouting Little Green Shitball propaganda without thinking, it's probably unlikely.
But I guess "5" sounded like a good number to make up.
Fucking hell, you've shifted again. From Kerry giving Iran weapons-grade uranium to the weakness of the U.N., which really has nothing at all to do with Kerry's plan. Which furthermore has nothing to do with the source of this particular line of debate (my fault, beloved; sorry): a simple request.
A positive reason for me, a far-left liberal, to vote for Bush that doesn't involve a Kerry negative (real or, as you've basically given, perceived). No bashing, but what positive will Bush achieve to convince me to vote for him.
ether, i'm sorry.
List of nations with nukes:
US
Israel (denied, but c'mon, we all know)
Iran
Pakistan
India
China
Russia
God knows how many Russian republics + gangsters
England (at least, the potential)
France
Yes, yes, let's INVADE THEM ALL! It'll be like the magical mystery tour!
clear distinction in cases:
Iraq=intelligence questions
Iran=no question
So get out there and tell people Bush is in favor of a pre-emptive war against Iran.
Kerry might even pay you.
I agree that Bush should invade Iran. Of course, given how much he's overstretched our military in his Iraq misadventure, he'll probably have to go on this new invasion all by his lonesome.
I imagine they can scrape up some body armor for him (more than he did for many of our soldiers).
goebber: Great minds think alike. If there is a procession for Americans killed in Iraq, it will be the first time they will have been honored publicly. This is the least the country owes them & the Repubs in power haved refused to honor their sacrifice.
If we can keep the demonstrations against the Repub convention dignified & on topic, we're home free. I worry about random violence by people who, the Repubs & the media, will identify as freaks. Does anyone know what kinds of protests have been organized & by whom?
ether - Even your buddies at FR now have a post up about how Drudge screwed up by taking what was on the Amazon site as fact about Kranish. Lot of backpedaling going on.
Ok so your comparing Iran with France, England, and Israel.
Your delusional if you want to give Islamofacists nukes.
Pakistan is bad enough.
I agree that Bush should invade Iran. Of course, given how much he's overstretched our military in his Iraq misadventure, he'll probably have to go on this new invasion all by his lonesome.
You don't think the 101st Fighting Keyboarders will take W's back when he marches on Tehran?
...look, it's even older news that bushco (neocons, et.al.) has had its sights on iran and nk for years. If anything, it's only our collective skepticism that allows this 21st century napoleon wannabe his own ideological pursuits, abetted by a for profit, 'if it bleeds it leads' media, at the cost of human lives who aren't his family.
China's got a whole arsenal, you palooka, and relative to the ussr, there's a much better chance that the marxist hanging rope will be made by chinese slave laborers, before they harvest their organs. Where's the outrage?
What a morally myopic individual you are. You wouldn't be a white x-tian, now would you? Easier rule of thumb when analyzing geopolitics? Follow the money...
Backslider: Bush isn't afraid to confront Islamofacism.
Kerry want to gve them nuclear fuel.
Bush is arrogant and dim, but he is no appeaser.
how can you guys support a candidate who supported the war if your supposed "far left liberals"
The far lefties at the protests i went to were being beaten and arrested to pevent this war.
you support a candidate who voted for it?
w(walks into room)
Hey guys, what's new? I'll bet you're all having a great discussion about Bush's shitty poll numbers and --EUUUUGH! WHAT THE HELL'S THAT SMELL?
Ah, the smell of ether...
If this is a Fox poll, assume other polls tell an even stronger (Kerry) story.
SWR-- Somehow, not so much.
justanassaninethought:
thanks for the ad hominem
and the inspiration.
ether | Email | Homepage | 08.07.04 - 5:27 pm | # ----
wow, an accusation of ad hominem attack, PRECEDED BY an ad hominem attack.
wow, just...wow.
credibility gone, finito, poof, buh-bye
No, ether, why Iran and Iraq and not China? China, who we bent over backwards to give soft words and a massage that had a "happy ending" when your BIG STRONG LEADER choked over the spyplane bit in 2001.
Remember that?
Guess what, China has nukes and they're pointed RIGHT AT US. China has missile systems that can deliver. China has a massive army, air force, and naval capabilities.
You tell me, ether, or are you just SO scared of Islam that you're willing to overlook our countries biggest threat from abroad?
do unto others...
how can you guys support a candidate who supported the war if your supposed "far left liberals"
The far lefties at the protests i went to were being beaten and arrested to pevent this war.
you support a candidate who voted for it?
Yes ether. I'll admit. I'm not a member of Answer or the ISM.
Kerry voted for the war because he wanted to cut the President some slack after 9/11 and Bush rammed it down his throat.
I know it's hard for you to believe (after the campaign against Clinton) that Kerry might have been acting in a bipartisan manner and supporting the President during a crisis, but there it is.
Tk: we have multitudes of threats.
The chinese didn't fly planes into the WTC. Islmaofacists did.
(a small addition to the list of nuclear nations: North Korea. Bush tends to overlook that one, too.)
TY, so Kerry supports issues according to their political value at the given time.
no suprise there.
By the way, ether, we didn't GIVE Islamofascist nukes. They probably already have them. You can thank our "good buddy" Pakistan, who sold them to every country they could find (except Iraq, amazingly).
Please though, explain how Iran is more of a threat than China. I'll wait.
Iran has a state run religion that strictly endorses the killing of Jews, Infidels, and Crusaders.
all of you fall into one of these categories.
Iran has stated it's intention of nuking Israel on numerous occasions.
The chinese didn't fly planes into the WTC. Islmaofacists did.
What a good solvent point. Yes, let's invade the country of Islmaofacist and root them all out for good.
How many brown-skinned deaths will YOU be advocating today, sir?
SWR-- Somehow, not so much.
rorschach | Email | Homepage | 08.07.04 - 5:35 pm | #
Bush: I'm taking heavy fire. I'm surrounded. I need a backup screen of Rachel Corrie jokes right now.
ether: It's on the way sir. A few of our members are on Philipino porn sites right now but as soon as they clean off their keyboards, they're with you.
Bush: OH MY GOD. There are thousands of them. Where's that picture of Kerry photoshopped to look like he's sitting with Jane Fonda. I'm hit.
ether: Sorry sir. Just about finishing here. My mom interrupted to ask if I wanted some cookies.
Bush: Oh My God, now I'm facing down suicide brigades. Where's my swift boat story. Where is it?
Wow. Just heard the first acorn of the year fall off one of the oaks and hit my roof. Falls' coming.
The Fox numbers look bad for Georgie. Any notion that they'd run them deliberately bad in order to energize their base? Sorry if this has been commented on upthread -- now I'll go read, but I'm skipping the trolls.
Iran supports Hezbollah, which like hamas, alqaeda etc. is founded on the teaching of Sayd Qutb and the Moslem Brotherhood based in S.A.
We're sorry, where has Bush confronted Islamic terror? Was that his unquestioning support of the House of Saud dictators? Or was that the other Bush, in support of the mini-Saud, Kuwait? Was that when Bush met with outgoing Clinton security experts to continue the work they were doing? Was that when Bush stoppped IX/XI from happening by killing the privatized security scam, replacing five-buck-an-hour airport security people with the National Guard, taking his briefings seriously, and noticing Bojinka?
There are times I think Bush does not want a second term.You know he was drunk until he was 40 and I bet the slacker in him pines for those good old days when he could pee on the lawn with reckless abandon.
I am truly shocked Fox released that poll...
http://therising.ebloggy.com/
Well, let's see, eth old boy...I guess if bunnypant's preemption doctrine had been in place, wtc would never have happened...Are we to wait until the prc's oil needs are so great that they resort to nuk-u-lar blackmail to take what we just took?
You'd best call up the other old white guys with money and get on this...oops, I forgot, they're too busy shipping manufacturing jobs over there to care.
The "blown cover" story had made it to MSGOP although I haven't seen the text just the headline. I'm sure they've figured out how to blame Kerry's Viet Nam service.
ether,
Once again, you completely fail to give me a positive reason to vote for Bush that isn't laden with Kerry bashing or opinion. Your terrified fears of "Islamofacism" don't resonate with me. I'm talking in terms of jobs, education, the environment and national security. Your paranoid fantasies don't grok.
And, yes, as a far-left liberal, I can support a candidate who voted for the war, which I never supported. I can do so because I'm not a blind ideologue who deals in absolutes, more out of pride than any sort of integrity. I realize that in American politics, sometimes you have to make compromises. I also realize that while not perfect, Kerry is a positive step forward and nevertheless we have a long, long way to go to get this country where it deserves to be.
Again, you dodge and dance. And again, I remember how well you've done so in the past. Ya got nothin', bubba.
tk: skin color has nothing to do with the death cult of extremist islam.
Islam is a religion not a race, thats Hitleresque thinking.
Iran has a state run religion that strictly endorses the killing of Jews, Infidels, and Crusaders.
Here's a good photo essay on the people ether wants to murder.
tk--
Here's a little passage (from my blog) to back up your concerns about China:
As Bush focuses with "laser-like" stupidity on Iraq, North Korea issues demands that the US leave the peninsula and threatens war. And now, China follows suit with regard to Taiwan. Um, shouldn't someone be doing something about this?
China may attack Taiwan if the island's President Chen Shui-bian pushes ahead with a plan for a new constitution by 2008, the China Daily on Friday quoted a top Taiwan affairs official as saying.
Iran has a state run religion that strictly endorses the killing of Jews, Infidels, and Crusaders.
ether I've known Jews and Christians who have travelled to Iran and nobody wanted to kill them.
Aren't you projecting your own lust to kill Iranians onto the Iranians?
Hey Ether, are you going to ride the Bush admin's blowing the cover of a Pakistani double-agent into November? The Bush admin blowing the cover of an undercover WMD op into November? The Bush admin throwing away 1000 American lives in Iraq? I opposed the war--I didn't want to see one American soldier die for your man W. My grandfather served and my uncle served, so go Cheney yourself, pal. And keep on enjoying Atrios, where the true American value of dissent and debate is embraced--unlike, say, certain quasi-fascist incumbent presidential campaigns.
...hmmm, seem to remember almost all of the hijackers were saudis...
...feed the gerbils in your head, get the wheels turning!!!
On the subject of nuclear "integrity", it is extremely hard (in different ways) to read about the punitive dissolution of the Soviet empire at the hands of evil men concerned with literally nothing other than self-enrichment and not expect fully that somewhere in the nuclear arsenals that are not even counted or sufficiently guarded anymore is an empty shelf, a square of dustlessness in a warehouse not cost-effective to control, where sat a bomb now owned by some maniac.
backslider: i'll only vote for Bush on the issue National Security. I concede everything else is pretty much fucked.
I have been reading sully's thoughts that kerry may be acting dovish until he gets elected, at which point, he'll have to protect this country. Could be some truth to that.
Hey ether, guess what!
The majority of people who live in Iraq aren't white or black!!
Which means, in an invasion... guess who dies?????????????
That's what you're advocating, in case you've never thought it through for yourself. Extremists don't wear uniforms, they don't have a country. There's no way to "get" them all without trampling all over plenty of innocents on the way. If you can live with that, fine, but I have no desire for my country to be stained with innocent blood because morons like you have been made SO afraid of the boogeyman...
shoelessjoe: why do you support a candidate who supported the war then.
Oh, and regarding "Islamofacism," if you are going to use meaningless neologisms, at least learn to spell them first.
Care to discuss the white-supremacist background of the publishing house that turned out this tome? The heinous Free Republic posts of its co-author? The vendetta mindset of the other co-author who's had it in for Kerry ever since Kerry outpointed him on Cavett 33 years ago?
You can believe either the guys who served directly with Kerry (ALL of them save for Steve Gardner) AND his Navy records, or you can believe the guys who've hated him ever since he came home and led VVAW.
Talk about desperation--you guys are swimming in it. Stooping to lies and smears about a man's combat record is pretty damned low even for Rethuglicans.
SWR are you going to take the position the Iranian mullarchy has no ill will towards Jews, Infidels, and Crusaders?
please do.
how would you spell islamofacism "rorsach?"
ad hominem.
Folks-- Something you already know: If you don't want these threads to turn into one long string of troll-and-response, stop feeding the little shits.
Come to think of it, though, it's par for the course--John McCain, Max Cleland, Wes Clark, John Kerry... God help a decorated soldier if he's a Democrat or just someone who challenges the GOP's annointed. They'll do everything they can to tarnish his heroism and wreck his honor, his rep... Funny stuff, coming from the party that tries to claim the flag and the military all for itself. No wonder Kerry's nearly running even with Bush among vets now--traditionally a pretty conservative group.
SWR are you going to take the position the Iranian mullarchy has no ill will towards Jews, Infidels, and Crusaders?
Are you taking the position that the neocons in the Bush adminstration and the racist right in Israel don't want to kill Arabs and Muslims.
You might want to read this article.
Across from Hadassah House is a school for Arab girls, called Córdoba, after the once-Muslim Spanish city. On one of its doors someone had drawn a blue Star of David. On another door a yellowing bumper sticker read, “Dr. Goldstein Cures the Ills of Israel.” The reference is to Baruch Goldstein, a physician from Brooklyn, who, in 1994, killed twenty-nine Muslims when they were praying in the Tomb of the Patriarchs, just down the road. Across the closed door of a Palestinian shop someone had written, in English, “Arabs Are Sand Niggers.”
So...if anyone has any sore feelings towards us...even of those feelings are grounded in things we actually did and could be mitigated by other means...the answer is to kill them?
Unless you are talking about some bizarre creed involving the faces of Muslims, I would suggest that the latter part of the word probably comes from "fascism."
I understood that the train would be coming through Kingman. But train or bus either one it'll be good to get to see him here.
catalexis
Catalexis, from La Junta today the train goes through Albuquerque, Grants, Holbrook, and Flagstaff to Williams, AZ. From there it goes up the Grand Canyon Railway to the South Rim.
I believe Kerry and Edwards get off the train there.
The train goes back to Flagstaff, where it is either split up and the cars sent back to their owners, or run back to St. Louis and split up there.
Frankly, I don't think Shrub will survive until November.
I've thought of that myself. Do you suppose the Republicans will decide to nominate someone else? Is that why Colin Powell has put up with all the indignities? Because he thought the whole thing might collaspe and he would be the last man standing? Or will they choose Chuck Hagel and trust to his magic touch screen voting machines.
Alice Marshall
-Colin Powell is a whore, and the wingnuts are stuck with Dubya.
tk: It's nice that you don;t take Islamofacism seriously. i'm sure it makes your Bush hating seem all the more noble. The fact of the matter is radical Muslims killed our countrymen based on teachings that are widely propagated throughout the world. If we don't confront these ideologies they will destroy us when they have the means.
see Bernard Lewis.
or STFU.
backslider: i'll only vote for Bush on the issue National Security. I concede everything else is pretty much fucked.
Fair enough. You got that right. I think it's rather narrow-minded and simplistic - frankly, I consider "everything else" much more important and believe Kerry will nevertheless do a good job on the international front (better than the past three years of Bush, anyway) - but you definately got the right to vote how you please.
So what I don't understand is why you'd think you'd convinve anyone who doesn't have your fear of "Islamofacism" to your way of thinking, since it seems to be the basic tennent of your upcoming vote. I mean, if people don't have the same sort of apprehension about the big, bad brown men invading, they're not gonna agree with you. If they do think it's more important than "everything else" and Bush's answer (whatever that is, cause I sure can't tell) is the best course to take, then, well...they wouldn't be voting for Kerry, now would they?
So what's the point?
nice rorsach i concede one ad hominem point on my spelling.
feel accomplished?
Kerry voted to give the president AUTHORITY to wage war. (Unlike,say, the GOP-led Congress that DENIED authority to Clinton to put soldiers on the ground in Kosovo.) That's a damned far cry from voting FOR it. Do I believe that Kerry as president would have invaded Iraq? No. Take that any way you want... I also don't believe he would have pushed for huge tax cuts for the wealthy while waging war as well. I believe he would have called for national sacrifice after 9/11.
It's nice that you don't take the idea of innocent deaths seriously.
The fact of the matter is radical Christians killed many innocent people based on teachings that are widely propagated throughout the world. If we don't confront these ideologies they will destroy us when they have the means.
See "Crusades, the"
See "Iraq War, the"
See "Bush, George W."
see Bernard Lewis.
or STFU.
Yes, Al Qaeda wants to kill us. But the majority of people in Iran don't.
Similarly, the racist settlers in Israel want to kill all the Palestinians but the majority of people in Israel don't.
So read the Jeffrey Goldberg article in the New Yorker or STFU.
Can we give John Kerry some credit here. Remember all those democrats who were asking why Kerry had not attacked Bush more forcefully? This guy is like Lance Armstrong, running the perfect race over a distance.
Sorry, but I can't let this pass. Kerry is no way like Lance Armstrong. That would be saying that Kerry is one of the most gifted, natural politicians ever. One who could attack at any time and put his opponents in trouble. One year, Le Figaro had a headline "Armstong-A Horseman of the Apocalypse" for the way Armstrong destroyed his rivals. If Kerry was like Armstrong the presidential race would look like the Illnois Senate race. Kerry is more like Miguel Indurain, who kept getting little adavantages every day over his opponents, stayed strong throughout the race and built up a solid lead. Indurain was great in the time trials and then hung on in the mountains. (If Kerry debates like Indurain raced time trials, then Bush will never recover.) Armstrong was able to blast his opponents seemingly on will. When Kerry looks Bush in the eye and says catch me if you can, like Armstrong did to Jan Ullrich on L'Alpe d'Huez, and then just leaves Bush in the dust, then we can make this comparison.
But Kerry doesn't have to be the greatest to win this event. Bush is like Bob Uecker, likeable, good for a laugh, but not good at his job.
Pointing out that an opponent in a debate consistently misspells a term he/she believes to be central to his/her point is not ad hominem.
It is, in fact, a valid point, suggesting that perhaps that opponent doesn't have any deep understanding of what he/she's talking about.
If I were going for ad hominem, I'd just call you an illiterate jerk.
But I'd never do that.
backslider:
"everything else" becomes irrelevent should ISLAMOFASCISTS get their hands on a nuke.
can you concede that much?
Once we have security, I'll be happy to get an economy and education focused president back.
It's being spelled both ways.
http://www.google.com/search?sou...&
q=islamofacism
Results 1 - 10 of about 611 for islamofacism
explain the teaching of Sayd Qutb since your so knowledeged on radical Islam rorsach.
"everything else" becomes irrelevent should ISLAMOFASCISTS get their hands on a nuke.
can you concede that much?
This is exactly why we don't want to vote for a president who ignored North Korea and Pakistan for Iraq.
And there's plenty of evidence that Bush is softpeddling his stance against Pakistani nukes in return for the occasional terror bust when he sinks in the polls.
So even the nuke issue is reason to vote for Kerry.
Counterpunch has a great take-down of the new phrenologist, the Terror Expert (formerly Arabist, Orientalist, Kremlinologist, Communism Expert, Observer of the Yellow Peril, Warder-Off of the Plague, Caster-Out of the Scape Goat, etc) of which the consistantly wrong Lewis is one.
Speaking of Dr Chicken Little of the Atmospheric Impact Institute, wasn't Condi a "Kremlinologist"? So these are snake oil salesmen selling snake oil to others of their kin with snake oil as credentials...
...based on teachings that are widely propagated throughout the world. If we don't confront these ideologies they will destroy us when they have the means.
Widely propagated?
Destroy us? When they have the means?
Do you realize how silly you sound?
Come on. You need to get a grip.
Frankly, if you're so concerned about your safety, join the military. Otherwise, your protestations are just intended to fire up others who have no life.
whoreshack:
since were resorting to name calling and insults guess i can call you a...
panty waist liberal who like ass to mouth and engages in incestual sex with his grandmother while watching john kerry primary debates and eating cheetos and cheese dip.
now that's discourse.
BTW ether, I really, honestly will concede the issue that you live in a lot of fear of Muslims (and probably blacks, gays, Jewish liberals, small yappy dogs, large zoom lenses on cameras, hamsters, Howard Dean in scream mode, and Rachel Corrie's ghost).
pie: you have no credibility at all if you feel radical Islam isn't spreading and isn't a threat.
your living in 9/10
http://www.princeton.edu/~nes/pr...files/
Lewis.htm
yep that Bernard Lewis sure is an ignorant fool.
"everything else" becomes irrelevent should ISLAMOFASCISTS get their hands on a nuke.
can you concede that much?
Again, I don't agree with you that "Islamofacism" is something that's as commanding a problem as you think it is. I see small, individualized pockets of terrorists - perhaps united by religion, perhaps not - not an all-encompasing force made of brown people bowing to the East every morning.
Fact of the matter is we're dealing with some of the nasties regimes in the Muslim world - Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Uzbekistan - and treating them like honored allies. The Saudi royal family has documented traces to Wahabbist terrorists and agitators, and the guy that runs Uzbekistan is one nasty mother.
And these are our allies; what seperates them and our "enemies", I don't know for sure, but I do know money talks and bullshit walks. If Iran plays - or was playing - along, then it won't be an issue, apart from a distraction.
Now, should those pockets of terrorism, some backed by our "allies", be dealt with in such a manner that it doesn't threaten the safety of our own citizens? Of course, but I disagree that unilateral, pre-emptive invasion - with a stretched-to-the-limit military and a damn near shot-to-hell economy on top of everything else - is the best way to go, to either deal with the terrorism or protect the citizens. Indeed, I think the current Bush actions will make both worse.
SWR you feel radical islam isn't a threat also?
is so, i'm done.
your living in 9/10
No, my darling, it's August 7, 2004. The lives of the majority of Americans has moved forward.
ether, I honestly feel sorry for you.
Where are your parents? Don't they keep you safe at night?
ether, every statement you make trying to beat the horse of radical religious fear, you only ruin any sort of credibility you have.
If you think radical Islam is a bigger threat than China or N.Korea, I really REALLY weep for our scare-friendly media and your BS detector...
pie: you have no credibility at all if you feel radical Islam isn't spreading and isn't a threat.
Hide under your bed then. The Commies/Muslims/Yellow Peril/Big Black Rapists/Romanist Plot to Subordinate Amerka to the Pope is coming for you.
Run. Hide. Cower. Be Scared.
I love when you guys resort to calling me racist.
gives me inspiration.
it's like me just calling you all communists.
baseless and tasteless
keep up the good work. now if you'll excuse...
i have poker pots to win.
Once again, beloved, I apologize for kicking this particular broken-down weed whacker into existence. Ask a simple question...
ether. The gays are coming for you too. I forgot that one.
You guys are right.
9/11 was an isolated incident by a few radical muslims...
Islam is not a threat.
have some more kool-aid before you spew that to some firehouses in NY.
and please tape the encounter.
I love when you guys resort to calling me racist.
I'm actually calling you a coward.
my sister is gay.
any more ad hominems?
i have poker pots to win.
Why does this optimistic outlook about gambling not surprise me?
you live in CA?
coward no.
have some more kool-aid before you spew that to some firehouses in NY.
You mean those same firemen who are going to be marching against Bush this August?
my sister is gay.
any more ad hominems?
One of my best friends is Muslim.
Any more from you Freeper boy?
we'll see.
Islam is not a threat.
I hope Kerry says that during the debates.
Uh oh, you just said ISLAM is a threat.
Your true colors emerge.
About time.
Good luck on getting Bush re-elected, my friend. There's a lot of Islamics out there, just waiting to be killed by people like you... a round of bullets with your fear...
ether - try it this way:
It's nice that you don't take corporate facism seriously. I'm sure it makes your UBL hating seem all the more noble. The fact of the matter is corporate capitalism and its goons have killed our brothers and sisters based on teachings that are widely propagated throughout the world. If we don't confront these ideologies they will destroy us.
Actually i won't ever have a muslim friend given the fact their religion wants me dead.
You don't seem to mind though.
No war but the class war right?
ROFLMAO
you wearin you Che shirt right now?
Let's see:
Hussein was "our man" when he was fighting Iran.
Then he invaded Kuwait, and became persona non grata.
No ties to "Islamofascism," no means to harm us (the U.N. Weapons inspectors, among others, said as much), no kind of terrorist power at all.
Now, terrorists swarm all over Iraq. We can't control Fallujah, Sadr City (a Baghdad suburb), much of anything, really, beyond the "Green Zone."
And we're the strongest military power in the world.
How do you destroy an ideology? Hasn't history taught us yet that guns and bombs just insure the spread of the idea you seek to eradicate?
So, assuming arguendo that there is such a thing as "Islamofascism," and further that it is a threat, are we defeating it with weapons? Or spreading it, by proving it survives the death of its very adherents?
yes Islam is a threat.
would you like me to post some sermons from the holiest mosques?
I can if you wish to deny it.
Muslims are not, as a whole, a threat. Islam is.
The Repub propaganda against the demonstrations might be their last gasp at turning things around.
Carter upthread, my worries exactly. They're gonna milk the demonstrations, using the media as happy foot soldiers. A solomn candlight ceremony would be most effective and moving but I don't think there's a cohesive effort to that end. I've seen some of the demonstration organizers being interviewed and they're frothing at the mouth.
*
Actually i won't ever have a muslim friend given the fact their religion wants me dead.
I think maybe the mailman wants to kill you too.
Robert: we did failry well with naziism. Or do you think nazis have the right to propagate violence also?
would you like me to post some sermons from the holiest mosques?
Would you like me to post Bush spew from the White House?
Please. Let's talk about tough talk.
SWR: if he's muslim: good chance.
wait jenny wants to plan the dead soldier candle party some more.
disgusting.
I think maybe the mailman wants to kill you too.
Amusing.
Yes, they're all out to get you, ether.
Muslims are not, as a whole, a threat. Islam is.
Do you want Bush to declare war on Islam?
Don't answer. I already know it.
You know, I actually feel sorry for you (if you're not just trolling). It must suck to start shaking with fear every time you see a woman wearing a chador (or whatever the hell that is) or get into a cab.
I won't call you a "bigot" (because then I'll have to hear you say "ad hominen" again) but it's obvious to everybody else.
http://www.imra.org.il/story.php...y.php3?
id=15747
From the holy mosque in Mecca, Saudi Arabia:
Shaykh Sa'ud Bin-Ibrahim al-Shuraym delivers the sermon. He praises God, the messenger, and his companions, advising people to worship and obey God and stressing the importance of pilgrimage as a religious duty. He urges pilgrims not to bother one another or mill about during pilgrimage ceremonies. He also calls on Muslims to stick to their faith in Islam "as a fatal weapon in the face of the enemies of the nation and the stealers of land," saying that a faithful fighter "can win either the battle or martyrdom for the sake of God." The imam devotes his sermon to pilgrimage affairs and Islamic values.
Concluding, the imam prays to God: "O God, strengthen Islam and Muslims, humiliate infidelity and infidels, destroy the enemies of Islam, and protect this country, as well as the countries of Muslims."
From the other holy mosque in Medina, Saudi Arabia:
"O God, strengthen Islam and Muslims and humiliate infidelity and infidels. O God, destroy those seeking to harm Muslims. O God, relieve Muslims everywhere of their suffering. O God, give support to mujahidin fighting for your sake. O God, relieve our brothers in Palestine of their plight."
From the Grand Mosque in Sanaa, Yemen:
Turning to politics, the imam condemns the Israeli "occupation for usurping Palestinian rights and destroying Palestinian homes and lands." Preparations, he says, are also under way "to occupy Iraq," although they [enemies] boast about their human rights organizations, "which only target Arab and Islamic countries." He devotes most of his sermon to pilgrimage affairs.
Concluding, the imam prays to God: "O God, give your support to Islam and Muslims and relieve our weak brothers in Palestine and Iraq of their ordeal." He goes on: "O God, give support to those supporting Islam and disappoint those disappointing Muslims. O God, promote justice and disappoint infidels and unbelievers. O God, give support to mujahidin in Palestine and Iraq, encourage them, and help them score victory over their enemies. O God, close the ranks of Muslims so that they can stand in the face of the unjust Americans and the Zionist usurpers. O God destroy the enemies of Islam, shake the ground under them, and instill fear into their hearts."
SWR: if he's muslim: good chance.
My mailman's an Irish Catholic, which means his religion doesn't want me to jerk off.
Now *that* I resent and fear.
Yes, i am bigoted against a religion that wants me dead strictly because i won't anounce allah akbar.
You guys feel pedophiles have a right to their ideologies too right?
your stance is all ideologies should be tolerated?
ether, you have never, ever met an actual Muslim, have you?
heh, I lived in fremont, Ca. the largest afghani population in the U.S.
"smarter monkeys please."
Robert: we did failry well with naziism. Or do you think nazis have the right to propagate violence also?
That was an ancient religion with adherents around the world?
Gee, I missed that in history class. All this time I thought it was the crackpot invention of a handful of Germans.
And don't look now, but its still around. Since it's a political philosophy, and has no governmental adherents, you don't hear as much about it. But there are still Nazis among us, and there always will be.
You're mixing apples and oranges, confusing political ideology with religions.
so ether?
Are you saying that Bush should declare war on Islam? On a religion?
Because if you are, keep saying it. Most people don't know just how scary Bush's base is and I'd like you to become the poster boy.
ether, so what?
Big deal. He's inciting the men at the mosque in a country where they have no power to do anything. Certainly, they can't hurt us.
Meanwhile GW continues to do more harm and inflame the masses to get twerps like you to hide under the bed? Aren't you embarrassed as your cowardice?
This is America, damn it, and you're a scared little boy.
How sad.
God, you're pathetic.
you know how many raked pots you guys are making me miss?
and pie... if you knew poker you would know it's half gambling, half psychological warfare.
I excell in the latter hence my "optimism."
Yes, i am bigoted against a religion that wants me dead strictly because i won't anounce allah akbar.
ether | Email | Homepage | 08.07.04 - 6:22 pm | #
I ask again, what's the point? You scared of Moslems. Got it. You're voting for Bush, even though admit he's weak in every single other field, because he'll "confront the Islamofacist". Got it. So why bother? The those of us who disagree are not scared like you are of the brown men, nor do we particular feel the need to hate them because you say we should. Nor, and this is the most important bit, do we feel that Bush's policy is the best one to deal with national security, which you're not even coming close to.
So...what's the point, man? You're pissing in the wind. Is there nothing on television?
And hey, another question...you're blezh0r (or however you spelled it), right? Aren't you the guy who said you wouldn't serve in the military to "fight Islamofacism" unless there was a draft?
heh, I lived in fremont, Ca. the largest afghani population in the U.S.
Oh my God man. You're surrounded. You'd better move now before they kill you. Try Vermont.
I excell in the latter hence my "optimism."
excel.
You're a coward.
so the leaders of the centers for spiritual guidance for the muslim world have no impact on the beliefs of muslims worldwide?
bury your head a little deeper.
"God, your pathetic."
typo ad hominem
more inspiration.
becoming frustrated?
you know how many raked pots you guys are making me miss?
You wet your pants again. Oh no. Better not think of Muslims too much then. I know. It's scary.
Dude, go play poker. Win big. Give 'em hell. Have some fun. Christ, you're wasting your time here.
Wait a minute.
Actually i won't ever have a muslim friend given the fact their religion wants me dead.
Muslims are not, as a whole, a threat. Islam is.
Which is it?
yes backslider, we have a volunteer military in this country until circumstabces warrant. it's not a fucking student aid program, it's an army.
get over it.
Wait a minute.
Actually i won't ever have a muslim friend given the fact their religion wants me dead.
Muslims are not, as a whole, a threat. Islam is.
Which is it?
Robert M. Jeffers | Email | Homepage | 08.07.04 - 6:31 pm | #
It's a real sad demonstration of how a lot of Bush's base thinks.
not having muslim friends, and not viewing them all as threats are completely different.
"smarter monkeys please."
I seriously think Bush just *might* lose it if the debates are unscripted enough and that's why the control over the debate rules is going to be so important.
I hope Kerry uses big words that are not easily parseable, to elicit a few Bushisms during the debates.
Actually, you're a big talker.
Put up or shut up. You support war as long as others fight in your place.
You need to enlist and fight. If you're not willing to do that, then you have absolutely no credibility.
I'll bring flowers to your grave.
you support mars exploration...
you should go to mars
Riiiiiiingggg.
ether: (in a frilly nighgown picks up phone) Hellow.
Charles Johnson: ETHER. THE MUSLIMS ARE INSIDE YOUR HOUSE. JUST GET OUT.
(thumping scary music)
ether pulls back sheets to reveal boyfriend (with whom he/she just had sex) in a puddle of blood. the shadaw of an axe rises on the wall
screams
you support aid to africa...
you should go...
yawn.
"smarter monkeys please."
not having muslim friends, and not viewing them all as threats are completely different.
"smarter monkeys please."
Ad hominem attacks don't impress me.
You posted two contradictory ideas: that all Muslims want to kill you, but that not all Muslims are a threat. Only Islam is.
So which is it? Do we destroy Islam, or all the adherents of Islam? Which is the threat? You raised the point, now you can't clarify, and you retreat to cheap insult.
I'm through. This is pointless.
yes backslider, we have a volunteer military in this country until circumstabces warrant. it's not a fucking student aid program, it's an army.
get over it.
ether | Email | Homepage | 08.07.04 - 6:31 pm | #
I didn't ask for an explination of the situation, daddy-o; I merely asked if you were the same guy who supported increasing the war's front but wouldn't actually see the service unless the draft comes along. Don't get me wrong, I fully groove on the all-volunteer military and feel it should stay ever thus. And frankly, I'm not at all bothered if you do indeed feel that you don't need to serve until the draft. You got that right, and I won't judge you a hypocrit. I may disagree with your logic, but you're welcome to it.
Just a yes or no will do nicely, since that's all I asked for.
Islam in of itself is a threat. It's stated intentions are to kill or convert infidels and jews or place said jews/christians under dhimmitude.
What % of Muslims suport this can;t really be know.
But i don't see many denouncing these ideals.
I never said all muslims want to kill me, i said their religion asks them to.
yes backslider that was me blehz0r.
thanks for the civility.
or place said jews/christians under dhimmitude.
I hear they make you wear a gimp suit too.
Look out for bad Bush News here. Consider, the economy is in a spiraling downward trend. I wouldn´t be surprised if next month the number of new jobs is 10k, and on October, right before the election, it is zero, null, zilch. The truth is the high oil prices are killing the economy, and Bush Wuss cannot control this, especially the Yukos situation in Russia, where the company might just disappear.
This would cause the oil prices to go to $50 dollars/barrel, and this would definitely kill the economy, and kill Chimp's chances of reelection, barring a crass stealing of the election.
SWR: nice you can joke so lightheartedly about religous slavery.
hope you enjoy it.
thanks for the inspiration guys...
bbl.
yes backslider that was me blehz0r.
thanks for the civility.
ether | Email | Homepage | 08.07.04 - 6:39 pm | #
Hey, I'm civil to everyone. I still think you're as full of shit as a Christmas goose, but hey, you got a right to your opinion and I doubt you'll ever come around to my way of thinkin'. So it's pointless to argue, since I disagree wholeheartedly with the basic tennet of your entire arguement: fear and loathing of Muslims.
I still don't understand why you're trying to change minds here or, if not really trying, why bother with the whole dance (especially if you could be playing poker) when it seems popular opinion is against you. But hey...until Atrios starts banning trollish-type people (and I'm not saying you're a troll, either, just disruptive for no reason at worst), you got that right, too.
SWR: nice you can joke so lightheartedly about religous slavery.
hope you enjoy it.
ether | Email | Homepage | 08.07.04 - 6:41 pm | #
I think we're getting to the crux of ether's fear of Muslims.
He's projecting his fear of being sexually dominated onto a religion.
And I would suggest that instead of cheering on the mass murder of people in Iran, he should visit his local S&M club where some nice dominatrix can help him work through his fears.
She might even dress up as Bin Laden (but only if she really wants to).
to practice my talking points on worthy opponents.
for later use on weaker ones who really may be pursuaded.
got to see what works.
Islam:works
Economy:shh
WMD: shh
Swift boat: working kinda
kerry/iran:works
no more hints, really gone this time.
Apologies, Ether. I guess I was to subtle. You fear being oppressed by what you call Islamofascists. I'm just saying some folks might see the source of oppression differently but with as much legitimacy as you.
When will we elect our next president with more than 50% of the vote? It won't be this year, that's for sure. Has it been 16 years already?
to practice my talking points on worthy opponents.
for later use on weaker ones who really may be pursuaded.
got to see what works.
Ehh, whatever floats your boat. Kinda sophistic in my book and I don't see how you'll learn anything but strategies - which renders debate moot in my book, not learning. But hey...if that gets yer ya-ya's off, no skin off my nose. Just don't waste my time, is all I'm asking.
When will we elect our next president with more than 50% of the vote? It won't be this year, that's for sure. Has it been 16 years already?
1996?
smarter monkeys?
Yes, i am bigoted against a religion that wants me dead strictly because i won't anounce allah akbar.
ether | Email | Homepage | 08.07.04 - 6:22 pm | #
well, you lose then, 'cause there are a billion of them and there could only be one stupid fuck like yourself.(sadly, i know there are more than just your one dumbass). i heard if you praise jeebus you won't go to hell if that is any consolation. personally i'd go with the muslims, over there you get a whole bunch of virgins.
Why are you allowing Ether to contol the thread every single day? He has about 6 names and he is only trying to disrupt. Stop feeding him.
Islam in of itself is a threat
Do you think all Christians are fundamentalist?
Fact of the matter is that maybe 2% of Muslims believe in the "kill the infidels" crap. Go live among Muslims like tens of thousands of American expatriates have and you will realize fundamentalist are part of any religion.
If you want to be scared of the "Islamofascist", then target your anger correctly at Saudi Arabia and Pakistan which have the highest percent, but even then you are probably talking about less than 20% of the Muslims that inhabit these countries.
I use ether and blehz0r.
I'm not the troll you guys have who steals names etc...
Ether started this thread by name stealing Thersites. He jumps back and forth stealing names, or posting as Anonymous.
Um, no.
yes backslider, we have a volunteer military in this country until circumstabces warrant. it's not a fucking student aid program, it's an army.
Unfortunately, I must have come in after "ethel" has checked out.
The above statement in italics is just beautiful.
ethel, I suggest you get down to your local enlistment office and join up for the Bush Boy's war. And, if you are as tough on the battlefield as you are "clever" on message boards, then the war is over.
Boots on the ground. If you espouse it, then put your fucking money where your mouth is. I surmise you are just one more of the pussilanimous little Bush Boy toughies and would piss yourself if I flipped you the bird at a red light.
Islam in of itself is a threat. It's stated intentions are to kill or convert infidels and jews or place said jews/christians under dhimmitude.
What % of Muslims suport this can't [sic] really be known [sic].
Actually, it's possible to know; the Fundamentalist Islamists (who believe in a certain version of the Koran) believe in killing people who are not of their faith. Just like the Fundamentalist Christians think killing abortion doctors is OK.
I live in an Arab neighborhood; loads of muslims, a few mosques, lots of curly writing everywhere. I have never in the ten years that I've lived here had one Arab person even look at me strangely. I eat at their restaurants, I buy stuff from their stores, I go to the same movie theater. Islam is like Christiannity; there's lots of different interpretations and therefore lots of different ways to be a Muslim.
Don't believe the hype. There are loads of nice Muslims, lots of jerks and some really nutty ones.
Think if the impression of ether's religion was based solely on him/her and his/her friends? I wonder if it would be an accurate portrait of that religion.
Critical thinking is truly a lost art.
Tell atrios to check the IPs if you don't believe me.
1996?
SWR | Email | Homepage | 08.07.04 - 6:52 pm | #
I think Clinton won with less than 50% in '96.
I don't need to, my laptop is a meat eater.
joshowitz5 - Critical thinking requires you to lose any stereotypes, and that is just too hard for the LGF/FR/ether types.
nice personal anecdote.
means little considering the sermons out of the "holiesT" mosques. guess you don't care to hear/read what doesn't support your views.
ether, where are your parents?
How could they have let you down like this?
Ether's putting me to sleep, especially with the "Islam is Evil" garbage.
(sarcasm alert) Everybody knows Christianity never believed in killing heretics and non-believers. There's never been any terrorism in places like Northern Ireland.
Meanwhile, people, lets keep on working against El Busho. The only poll numbers that really matter are those on election day.
ether - I read the sermon you posted. So what? How about some of the shit that comes out of the SBC? Is that reflective of all Christians?
Lose the stereotyping of Muslims, it's for small minds. 98% of them laugh at that shit.
Muslims are not, as a whole, a threat. Islam is.
ether | Email | Homepage | 08.07.04 - 6:15 pm | #
Christians are not, as a whole, a threat.
Christianity is.
y'see? y'see how out and out STUPID this is?
this argument is NOT logical, its FEAR dressed up in bullshit.
the tribble KNOWS its bullshit.
there's no use trying to reason with it, its just trying to yank yer chain.
I think Clinton won with less than 50% in '96.
Billy C won the 96 election with 50% of the popular vote.
ethel, have you pissed yourself yet?
Have you enlisted. We need someone of such intestinal fortitude as yourself prancing around Iraq. You'd scare the shit out of Sadr.
y'see? y'see how out and out STUPID this is?
this argument is NOT logical, its FEAR dressed up in bullshit.
the tribble KNOWS its bullshit.
there's no use trying to reason with it, its just trying to yank yer chain.
Yes, we know.
means little considering the sermons out of the "holiesT" mosques.
And all Christians follow the instructions from the Pope/Vatican, right? How about all those Catholics using birth control?
I'm a Buddhist, but I eat meat. I know it's wrong, but when I think about a big, juicy hamburger....
oops, gotta go, too hungry.
echo, echo
lol
sholdn't you guys be planning your dead soldier candle party?
>all your little troll spatter cant change the fact that Bush is LOSING THE ELECTION.
justathought | Email | Homepage | 08.07.04 - 4:39 pm | #
Great, justathought. These stupid troll guys are just desperate because their chosen horse is losing the horserace (indeed, the Chimp is afraid of horses, it is known that horses don't like chimpanzees).
The economy is getting to the doldrums, Irak is going down the drain, the constant terror alerts are making people realize this alert business is just a political game for Bush. Ron Reagan Jr disses The Chimp
All Bush's policies are
http://www.sfgate.com/comics/fiore/\"> laughable
This period will go down in history as the darkest time in America, even worse than Salem
ethel, have you pissed yourself yet?
No, Ether has done his job. Disruption is his job. Throwing out the bait over and over again until he hooks a few people. Endless arguments designed to go nowhere. Keep finding ways to hook his fish and drag them down the dead end road. Bait and switch.
laughing my fucking ass off...
worse than the salem witch trials?
you guys are just fuckin delusional.
LMAO these are the comments that keep me coming back for more.
thanks for the inspiration.
think Clinton won with less than 50% in '96.
Billy C won the 96 election with 50% of the popular vote.
I looked it up. Clinton got 50%. Dole 42% and Perot 8%.
For whatever reason, I remember Clinton having won by a huge margin.
can't think of a bigger threat to america than christian fundamentalists.
They are scarier than islamic fundamentalists because they're here.
ether is also Al Alice Anonymous
he has been sent over here to troll because W is trailing
Clinton didn't break the 50% barrier in 1996, he was elected with a plurality, not a majority.
Bill Clinton (Democrat) 47,402,357 49.24%
Bob Dole (Republican) 39,198,755 40.71%
Ross Perot (Reform) 8,085,402 8.40%
Ralph Nader (Green) 685,128
.71%
electionpuss,
Splitting hairs, eh?
Split this, motherfucker:
Al Gore: 50,996,582
Bush Boy: 50,456,062
Get over it? I think not. We're coming for you, boy.
The best thing you and all yours can do at this point is stick your head between your legs and kis you ass goodbye.
Bush isn't going anywhere. Not since Stalin has there been such a cult of personality.
Start worrying about the quality of Kerry's Secret Service protection. Remember 1968? Remember Rabin? The wingnuts will stop at nothing.
Ether,
Having read your posts regarding "Muslims" and "Islam", I would be interested if you might define those two words for us. You can start with your own connotative definition, if you'd like, then work up to the denotative. I mean no disrespect. I'm just curious.
It would be interesting to know how each of these polls corresponds to the volume of shredding and disk-wiping being done in Washington from now through January. If there's a blackout in Washington in November due to excessive demand, we'll know why. Biklett | Email | Homepage | 08.07.04 - 4:24 pm | #
These days it is probably almost impossible to find all the copies. Stuff gets routinely backed up and deliberately going in to the backups and either destroying just the incriminating documents or the whole backup is going to be both obvious and beyond the technical capabilities of these people. That is just for the stuff that was on the servers. Then they have to worry about what individuals have paper and/or electronic copies.
It may a while, but once it is safe, I think that lots of stuff will come out. Right now many people would probably like to leak but fear the consequences (sp) if they get found out.
We're coming for you, boy.
Billy B
For some reason you assume I am voting for Bush in November. You are wrong bro. But you may still come for me if you like. Not sure what you think you will get.
you support a candidate who voted for it?
Now, this is primo stuff. ether suggested it was wrong to support a candidate who voted for a war (as a last possible resort)that ether marched against 5 times. Who does ether support: none other than the actual guy who started that very same war even though ether allegedly opposed the war and allegedly did not believe in the reason cited as the need to go to war. What is that smell?
still need to work on flase impressions of georgie as a strong leader.
cheneying sheeple.
Let the freepers keep going at his past military record. This is a no-brainer positive against Bush. This shows nothing constuctive because even IF Kerry could be brought down they would only be EVEN(in this respect-perceptually)
the wingnuts are getting isolated and...angry...hey hitler, how does that bunker feel?
For all of you good Republican folks out there: The Bush Administration is now opening up a new infantry division, the 101st Fighting Keyboarders, to be comprised of all good Republican war bloggers everywhere. You'll get free room, free board, free clothing, and all the high tech goodies you'd ever want! I'm sure you'll all go down to your local Army recruiting board today and sign up. Remember, Uncle Sam needs YOU!
- Your Attorney General
Luckily, the BC reelection campaign is just a bunch of nimrods that don't get that EVEN IF Kerry was teh ultimate Gomer Pyle, even if he was ths dippiest, most incompetent soldier to walk the planet, HE STILL WENT INTO DANGER while Bush was awol, snorting coke, drunk.
That is not going away. When they attack Kerry on his years of work in polititics, it only reminds us that Party boy Bush was being incompetent in the business world for the same time. When they want us to let go about Bush's indiscretions because "that's in the past, he was just a good ol boy..." that this was the time Kerry was being a responsible person standing for what he believed in.
On a different subject, I noticed no one mentioned in that other story about the "Loyalty oaths" that one had to sign to see Cheneys speech...that not only was "hereby" spelled wrong, but the grammar was something like "I support Bush for reelection of the United States"...not seen anyone mention that this is symantically goofy...the United States is NOT getting elected or reelected...the candidates are.
Sheesh...
Wow, the frothing over nearing the 1000 death mark is really disturbing.
Why do you hate American soldiers and wish them death?
Oh wait,your own partisan political purposes?
ether
Dear Dumb Ether, you have once again turned off your brain before posting. Please try to engage brain before typing next time.
You see, the 900+ soldiers that are dead as dead can be, are killed by the moron president and his gang of thugs. Better to ask, how come Bush and co. is so hung up on not hitting that 1000 mark before the election? They didn't give a damn when it was 200, 300, 400, etc. In fact, Wasn't it Rove who was off by over a hundred on the number of deaths when asked? That's how much they "support" the soldiers. They aren't even supported with armor, with the vests they need....
I think it is time you quit trying to lecture folks that you hallucinate them being glad more soldiers die. The real heart of the matter is, they want Bush out of the WH so he won't send hundreds more soldiers to death. But your argument wasn't even a "real" argument....it seemed calculated to just try and win a point, not heartfelt. Kinda like trying to be all clever and make points in a debate.
Other people actually DO care that people are dying because of Bush.
and pie... if you knew poker you would know it's half gambling, half psychological warfare.
I excell in the latter hence my "optimism."
ether
Trust me ether, you don't excel at it. You have a little bit of the "Bush" in you, in an inflated sense of your own abilities.
Umm..unless your "psychological warfare" was convicing hundreds of strangers that you are pathetic...
If THAT was the case, I bow to the master!
Giving nuclear fuel to Iran is a great idea.
The reason why is that not all nuclear fuel is the same. Different reactors and different technologies use different fuel sources and have different end products.
For instance, the CANDU system burns all sorts of stuff (there was a test not too long ago where they sent warhead-grade material mixed with the normal fuel into the reactor to see if the system could be used to dispose of decommissioned warheads as a way of non-proliferation, and it worked) and the end product isn't suitable for bombs. So if the iranians want energy, you help them build a bunch of CANDUs, supply the fuel rods, have monitors watching the reactors, and assist in disposal of the waste.
That way, Iran gets the energy it needs but you've also made sure that you know exactly how much fuel is coming in, how much is used and where it ends up going. Because you're selling them the fuel, you have the right to monitor it.
If you force them to go underground for nuclear, then you don't get to use that excuse as a reason to invade their privacy.
from zogby:
- 46.5 percent say Bush shares their values; only 11.8 percent said Kerry does.
- 72.3 percent say they identify with a private-sector philosophy; 10.3 percent identify with the government.
- 46.7 percent choose protecting the country at all costs, while 28.2 percent choose seeking international alliances and better understandings between cultures.
Kerry also has openings - and challenges.
His most formidable obstacle is that a small majority - 51.6 percent - says they don't like him, and 76.4 percent hold an unfavorable opinion of him.
Only 9.3 percent would rather have a beer with Kerry than Bush.
"I think he's a jerk," said Elizabeth Feldman, 22, a college student from North Olmsted, Ohio, a suburb of Cleveland. "He's way too fake. . . . I know it's popular to say John Kerry waffles, but it's kind of true. And I don't like his wife." "He's intelligent, but he's too pompous," added Dolores
Wisnewski. Kurt Trachte, 47, a construction worker from St. Charles, Mo., said: "I massively want Bush to lose, but I don't like Kerry."
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