I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Frist!
More here:
www.removebush.com
Cheney is the real evil mastermind
Once again, explain to me how Iraq is now better off? What a clustercheney.
It depends on what your definition of "sensitive" is.
Kerry's sensitive is a gay kind of French type of sensitivity. Bush-Cheney's sensitive is more of a shoot all the brown people and ask questions later kind of sensitivity.
Go fuck yourselves up your sensitive ass.
Cheney's full of crap, per usual.
From Juan Cole (link below)
Muqtada Press Conference: "No Ordinary Politics Under Occupation"
---The one-day truce in Najaf has collapsed. And, even the council of tribal chieftains in the Middle Euphrates, a previously pro-American group, has issued a statement condemning the "barbaric massacres perpetrated by the United States in Najaf," according to al-Jazeerah's crawl.----
... and later
----Muqtada declared that "Najaf has triumphed over imperialism and imperial hubris" (al-isti`mar wa al-istikbar). Like Bush, Muqtada is extremely clever in using rhetoric that identifies his interests with those of his people. He has represented the stand-off around the shrine of Imam Ali as a "victory" of "Najaf" over the US Marines. In essence, he has made himself stand for Najaf. No one should underestimate the power of a proclamation such as "Najaf has triumphed over imperialism" in the Muslim world. Hndreds of his fighters were summarily blown away by the US military, which has taken most of the city (reducing some of it to rubble and repeatedly bombing a sacred cementery) and surrounded the Mahdi Army in the shrine. You would think that people would laugh at this situation being called "a triumph of Najaf." But no one is laughing, and in fact there are pro-Muqtada demonstrations all over Iraq, including in the hard line Sunni areas (!), and insurgencies. Indeed, there have been big demonstrations in Iran, Bahrain and Pakistan as well as in Iraq.----
http://tinyurl.com/22do3
And once again, I will donate to the first 527 to put the two segments into an add and run it in VA.
It's drugs. Or madness. Drugs are more likely. I think they're all drunks.
Delicious -- so he has no idea what a sensitive war is, but he is going to recommend that the military run one.
Oh, right! Cheney never served, so he wouldn't have a clue 
Scorpio
Eccentricity
What a cheneying surprise. I'm with Hecate, where are the fucking moveon ads that have all the "sensitive" quotes from the misadministration.
Stewart showed one, and I've seen many others quoted on the 'net.
Where the FUCK are the FUCKING ads?
CHENEY'S GAY?!?
Why doesn't the Kerry campaign just release a commercial taking Cheney to task on this?
Start off with something like just plain text saying "Kerry: Wimp?"
Cut to Cheney sarcastically saying that Kerry recently called for a more sensitive war, et cetera.
Cut to plain text: "Just one problem:"
Cut to the speech that Kerry actually gave, which was more like "We need to be more proactive, more powerful, more sensitive, more effective, more ...".
Cut to plain text: "No, wait a minute, just two problems:"
Cut to a montage of Cheney's various "sensitive" moments.
Cut back to plain text: "EVERYTHING REPUBLICANS TELL YOU IS A LIE."
No, wait, maybe don't do that last one. But you get the idea.
What a cheneying surprise. I'm with Hecate, where are the fucking moveon ads that have all the "sensitive" quotes from the misadministration.
Stewart showed one, and I've seen many others quoted on the 'net.
Where the FUCK are the FUCKING ads?
Well duh, the ads take money. Pony up.
I knew he looked French.
ACK--i was just spying on FauxNews, which is busy producing the Bush excuse for the lousy economy--the damage to the national economy that will result from hurricane charley. all you economists out there, please start coming up with answers. I'm telling you, Varney is preparing the path for Bush to say the same thing in the coming days.
ACK--I was just spying on FauxNews, which is busy producing the Bush excuse for the lousy economy--the damage to the national economy that will result from hurricane charley. all you economists out there, please start coming up with answers. I'm telling you, Varney is preparing the path for Bush to say the same thing in the coming days.
HH never noticed a thing of course with his head up Cheney's butt even though he was there he probably didn't hear a thing
Well duh, the ads take money. Pony up.
Uh, I already have. As much as I'm legally allowed to. Am I now allowed, in your esteemed opinion, to ask why they don't make an ad about this? Thank you.
Begin distributing the clip from Daily Show --easy enough to download and just start shipping it around
jib jab had to start someplace --
OT -- In the hardcopy version of the Washington Post today -- front page --- there is a column about Bush's under-the-table changes in regulations that the public never hears anything about. The story focused on changes in OSHA regulations, using it as an example to explain Bush's "process."
Then, on the last day of 2003, in an action so obscure it was not mentioned in any major newspaper in the country, the administration canceled the rules.
The article continues for 2 ENTIRE pages inside. It also says there will be articles on Monday and Tuesday.
The story is not online, but it is a MUST READ! I haven't seen the WashPo get into this much dirty detail in a long time.
I'm going to be working for the Democratic committee at the county fair this week, and I'm going to display the story there.
I understand your point Atrios. Yet, from a different angle, what the fuck did Moktada have to do with "killing 3000 Americans"? Also, by Cheney's nihilistic vengeance-soaked logic, should not the Iraqi people be 100% committed to killing the Americans now that we have exterminated far more than 3000 of their brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, sons and daughters?
They must be really worried about their base to subject STuffitboy to this kind of crap. They goal of course is to hang some ridicule on Kerry --so far nothing has stuck and this is an attempt to paint Kerry as a girlyman and I'll bet anyone right here and now that the Exaggerator in speech makes a girlyman reference alluding to Kerry...(although he claims he likes Kerry and doesn't have time to campaign for Bush)
"A sensitive war will not destroy the evil men who killed 3,000 Americans"
Well, Dick, what kind of war will it take?
And where? And when?
The Kerry campaign will have no new ads until after the GOP convention. From here on out they can only spend the $75 million that they receive from federal financing.
The Bush campaign, because he has not been nominated yet, is free to spend whatever it wants until the convention.
Any ads produced between now and the GOP convention for Kerry are by independent groups who legally can have no coordination with the Kerry campaign.
So, in a nutshell, this is not the Kerry campaign's responsibility.
It does not stop other groups or the DNC from making up ads, but it is trickier getting into immediate controversy - they have to decide what the Kerry campaign would want without talking to them about it.
Sorry to be pedantic, but that is why there is a slow response time or no response right now.
Surely we have some editing here: we're not allowed to read the following part where Hugh Hewitt reacts like any normal person would and says "Pardon me, Mr. Vice-President...do you expect that everyone who listens to you has a 10-nanosecond memory?"
What? He didn't?
I'm telling you, Varney is preparing the path for Bush to say the same thing in the coming days.
'Reg' Varney is a joke in his home country, of course.
pol,
I wrote about that article in a thread below. It was quite good. This is important and, as you and the article note, Bush has gotten a complete pass on this one. I have a friend who quit a very high level govt. job due to similar changes in medicial regs. More important, IMHO, than a lot of the silly stuff that Bush forces Kerry to focus on. Good grounds for an attack.
On another note, I am currently in the process of deciding which Congressional candidates to donate money to. My main objective is having the Democrats take control of Congress, rather than supporting candidates who more closely reflect my personal political opinions.
So, first cut is "close races". According to actblue, there are 15 of these, 9 in the House and 6 in the Senate.
I am unwilling to donate $30,000 (fifteen times $2,000). I am willing to donate something like $2,000 to $4,000. So, I have to decide how to split up money among these fifteen. Any opinions (again, taking into account that my main goal is to have the D's retake Congress)?
For example, is it better (from an effiency/probability point of view) to donate larger amounts to smaller numbers of candidates, or smaller amounts to larger numbers of candidates?
Is it better to support the Senatorial candidates to the exclusion of the House candidates, due to the fact that a single Senator has more of an impact than a single Representative?
Or is it better to support the House candidates to the exclusion of the Senatorial candidates, due to the fact that the amount of money that I'm willing to donate might have more of an effect in a House race than in a Senate race?
Et cetera.
Thanks for any suggestions.
I'm convinced Cheney has dementia brought on by brain damage from all of his heart attacks. His "rigid thinking" even in the face of evidence to the contrary is definitely a symptom.
It's a nice trick when you can blow smoke out of both sides of your arse.
It's the Cheneymobile...gas-fired and ready to roll!
Cheney should have more sense than to bring up the word sensitive in such a sensitive situation.
And since when did Cheney become Muslim? He is so sensitive to Islam that he can determine when a Islamic Holy Man has "defiled" a shrine. When did he start kneeling and facing Mecca?
For those of you who want to see more bulldog "surrogates" out there, Senator Harkin has just called Cheney a "coward" for running away from Vietnam, but being enthusiastic to use the blood other people's children to fight in the Great Iraqi Misadventure.
Here's a link to the Associated Press story:
http://tinyurl.com/4h3gw
Enjoy.
Also: Majority Report website informs us that the Kerry campaign will next come out swinging about all things Halliburton. How's that for taking it on the offensive, oh ye of little faith? [Not talking to most of you, just to the doomsayers.]
@Orville:
Please look at D. Anne Wolfe(http://www.wolfe2004congress.com).
She could use a little taste.
All this touchy-feely sensitivity crap is enough to make a conservative savior like myself want to puke. Fuck the Muslims. They don't worship me, anyway.
Kate, as one of the doomsayers, I'm glad to hear it. More like this!
Orville
You might consider donating through Nancy Pelosi's Pac and/or Clinton's--
because they would know which are the races where 2-4k will make the most difference. They can also tell which races if you want to make a direct contribution. There are other pacs that might be closer to your priorities that may have a slightly different take --but no one is more interested in taking control of the house and senate then these two women.
@Kate:
Take it from an old martial artist: You gotta pick your fights. Once you pick your fights, you gotta pick your effective techniques. Then you gotta land them effectively, with an eye towards a one-technique finish.
Of course, there are always circumstances beyond one's control.
Dear Republican Jesus,
There's no such thing. You don't exist.
anonymous in nc: 'Reg' Varney is a joke in his home country, of course.
Dumbassistan?
.
T_Scheisskopf:
Thanks, I will take a look. But again, my primary goal is getting Democratic control of Congress, not getting candidates who might reflect my personal political opinions more closely than others elected.
So, I'm not really interested (from a donation decision point of view) in details on a particular Democratic candidate. "Democrat, not Zell, and a close race" are the overwhelming criteria.
"I wrote about that article in a thread below. It was quite good. This is important and, as you and the article note, Bush has gotten a complete pass on this one. I have a friend who quit a very high level govt. job due to similar changes in medicial regs. More important, IMHO, than a lot of the silly stuff that Bush forces Kerry to focus on. Good grounds for an attack."
Hecate
It seems that it would be just too easy to create an ad along the lines of
"What Bush said: insert pandering lie- vet benefits, clean skies, etc"
"What Bush did: the truth"
Anonymous:
Thanks very much, I'll look at these PACs. From how you describe them, they sound very much like what I'm looking for.
Already have ponied up to multiple people. So where are the FUCKING ads?
Hectate, I am the God of Jerry, Pat, and George.
Great crowds +
Teflon coating +
Undecideds tend break two to one for challenger +
Smart +
Politically astute +
Really fired up base =
Landslide.
Not wishful thinking - logic.
My money now goes to 527s getting the message out that we are most emphatically not rethug light.
Well now, it seems that it depends on the meaning of the word sensitive, doesn't it?
I want 527 ads goddamn it. I know K/E can't spend money now. Hecate said 527 ads. Right on, where the fuck are they?
"Why do we have no word as yet on the number of casualties there, chief"
"Well, as you may know, the governor of
Florida is the brother of our commander in thief. Let me emphasize that again, he is Shrub Bush's BROTHER. We are under extremely strick, but secretive, orders to not do anything that by extension, in even the most tenuous way, damage his reelection campaign. You know, Fuckups and whatnot?
Kate, thanks for the link. What I cannot stand is the usual repub response: "His shrill negative attacks did nothing to get Howard Dean elected or get the nomination during the caucuses," James said, referring to Harkin's endorsement of the former Vermont governor before the Iowa caucuses."
I am really sick of the idea that anyone who dares to doubt or question the motives of our glorious leaders, is automatically labelled shrill.
I'm looking into those PACs... according to OpenSecrets.org, Pelosi's PAC has spent $861,954, only $385,000 of whih has gone to candidates. Haven't found Clinton's yet, but I assume it's similar.
Seems like quite a waste - 54% waste. Why would I want to donate here rather than to the candidates directly? Am I missing something? Thanks.
On the other hand, a lot of
people who worship there feel like Moqtada Sadr is the one who has defiled the
shrine, if you will...
No, I won't. I read today that al-Sadr is actually getting more support because of his call for American troops to leave, even from some of the Sunnis.
Cheneykins, you screwed up. They want you and Halliburton out.
This isnt the first time Ive put my head in a woodchipper because of Cheney.
Dear Republican Jesus,
Please go tell your followers that you were a Democrat. They've been taking your name in vain. Time for a little smiting, I think.
Where does the rest go? On the face of it doesn't sound good. Do they use it for polling and other things that can support a number of candidates?
"aware of the sensitivity"
not acquiesing to alleged "sensitivty."
personally, i think we should fuckin level the place should it be shown it is being used as an arms depot an staging ground for attacks.
nice try though.
Anonymous,
The rest of it goes here:
http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/...4234&
Cycle=2004
Money poured into 527s to challenge Cheney's stupid twisted statements is fine, but how much more effective it would be to have someone just once with the balls to call out "Bullshit" on the spot when the statement is made. Never happen, I know, but most of us fantasize about the possibilities for better coverage.
If they are sucking up 46% for fundraising and overhead go else where young popcorn popper. However their donor list still might be a guide for challengers that have a chance- where your money might make the difference. It does seem out of whack to me too. Thanks for taking a look.
On the other hand, a lot of
people who worship there feel like Moqtada Sadr is the one who has defiled the
shrine, if you will, and I would expect folks on the scene there, including U.S.
commanders, will work very carefully with the Iraqis so that we minimize the
extent to which the U.S. is involved in any operation that might involve the
shrine itself.
Good intentions, you see; it's all about good intentions. As long as we mean well, how can they hold it against us if we defile holy places?
It's not like we started this, after all....
Hey listen,
I can say anything I Cheneying want and the press lets me pass.
Is this a great fricking country, or what?
Love,
Dick Cheney
IOKIYAR
If they are sucking up 46% for fundraising and overhead go else where young popcorn popper.
Yeah, I think I'm going to. Just one more minor thing, though: The 46% is the percent that goes to candidates, not the percent that goes to "other". 54% goes to "other".
Sounds like it's time for the various entertainment folks involved with the campaign to donate time, money, and resources to a new series of ads and media buys. So how do we reach them? And what about Michael Moore? Perhaps he could turn some of the profits from F911 around to make a series of ads.
Any other ideas for pushing the powers-that-be to action?
One possible caveat: that 54/46 split is what of they've spent so far. They've spent 62% of their money. So, theoretically, they could spend the remaining 38% on candidates, and cut their waste down from 54% to 35%.
Still,
(1) That's quite an assumption, that all of their remaining money will go to candidates;
(2) It still is a 35% seeming waste, spent on things like "Catering" and "Quartet - reception music".
The man truly is a liar and an idiot.
Unless something is wrapped in the language of fascist rhetoric chief nazi wannabe Dick Cheney can't grasp the concept of words.
Marriam Websters has the following definition which relates to what Kerry was trying to say:
'Sensitive'
--Delicately aware of the attitudes and feelings of others--
In other words using the word sensitive in this case simply meant being considerate of others, like our allies. It also meant being sensitive to the responses of the whole of the arab and muslim people of the middle east to the U.S invasions of not one, but two straight middle eastern, muslim nations.
What's more bizarre about this sh*t is the way so many people failed to inderstand the truth about something so simple that you must either judge them complicit in Cheney's goose stepping or that such people are too dumb to be allowed to procreate.
MYOB'
.
Orville Redenbacher, contribution limits imposed by federal law:
Indv to Candidate: 2000
Indv to National Party: 25000
Indv to a PAC: 5000
indv TOTAL: 95k biennial limit; 37,500 to all candidates; 57,500 to all
PACS and parties
PAC to Candidate: 5000
PAC to National Party: 15000
Pac to PAC: 5000
Pac TOTAL: no special limits
Other to a National Party: N/A
Other to a PAC: 5000
Other TOTAL: 35k to Senate candidate per campaign, state, district, local
parties have the same PAC limit, with no total limits
Too bad we couldn't talk to ghosts of all the VC that Kerry killed to find out if he did it in a sensitive way. We could also ask them if John used French bullets to kill them.
I hear Cheney was very macho when he begged for his deferments.
A sensitive war will not destroy the evil men who killed 3,000 Americans
Outsourcing the writing of talking points to Al Qaeda seems to be taking it a bit too far.
The man truly is a liar and an idiot.
Unless something is wrapped in the language of fascist rhetoric chief nazi wannabe Dick Cheney can't grasp the concept of words.
Marriam Websters has the following definition which relates to what Kerry was trying to say:
'Sensitive'
--Delicately aware of the attitudes and feelings of others--
Dick Cheney emphatically is not an idiot. To call him such is obviously wrong, and therefore counterproductive to your goal.
I'm sure that Cheney is well aware of the various meanings of "sensitive". However, they, and certain other facts, are utterly irrelevant to his purpose, which is to convince voters.
To pretend that he doesn't know what "sensitive" means, as opposed to him frankly not caring, is blatantly ridiculous, and again, counterproductive.
i think we should fuckin level the place
Our children isn't learning.
Who in hell cares what you think, you moron.
"Too bad we couldn't talk to ghosts of all the VC that Kerry killed to find out if he did it in a sensitive way. We could also ask them if John used French bullets to kill them.
I hear Cheney was very macho when he begged for his deferments." Chauncy Gardner
Uh, Kerry didn't start the Vietnam war. He did his duty and came back after 16 mos of service and lobbied against an immoral war. Cheney was for Vietnam, but when it came time to put his ass on the line, he pleaded for sensitivity- see, he had other things to do.
Hmm, there's another tag that needs to be a regular part of any Democrat's response.
"Notice how so people have a hearing problem? Every time some one talks about the truth, the Republican Party hacks hear a shrill negative attack. Guess the truth really scares them."
"HH never noticed a thing of course with his head up Cheney's butt even though he was there he probably didn't hear a thing"
There was probably an echo because anyone so full of it as Cheney is has got to have a lot of cargo space.
fyi b/c i can't be the only one who missed it...
krugman v. o'reilly on tim russert is being re-run on CNBC right now.
Uh, Kerry didn't start the Vietnam war.
WTF?
This sentiment should be reciprocal: "If you have a problem with the United States, hatred will not solve it," she said. Reactions in the Arab world to Fahrenheit 9/11
Orville-
Thanks for the link to Open Secrets
I clicked on the Swiftliars for Hate PAC and I always thought all political television buys had to be paid at the time the ads run. Correct me if I'm wrong but they look about 350-400k short and no loans posted. Of course they could be late with their filing and I could be reading it wrong.
"Uh, Kerry didn't start the Vietnam war.
WTF?" Chauncy Gardner
Can't you even understand what you said?
Kerry was talking about using sensitivity when engaging in policy, just like Cheney has, which BTW includes decisions to go to war. War is a ultimately a failure of diplomacy.
"We could also ask them if John used French bullets to kill them."
They were made in the USA you dumbass.
Porter Goose is cool. And so is Chauncey Gardner.
no imagination
Wow, Did your mother drop you on your head when you were young, or did you lose those IQ points huffing paint in Mississippi?
Sarcasm son sarcasm. How old are you? You don't know shit about Vietnam.
Thanks, Dirtgirl. I missed it too.
no imagination
I other words, you don't know the difference between a troll and someone that gives half his paycheck to the DNC.
I'm personally excited that John Kerry's going to be president. I think he'll be the coolest, most broad-minded individual we've had in there in a while. Did anyone read Hitchens' swiss-cheese article in the NYTimes? The Cons are soooo grasping at straws by this point. Kerry's got a lead in even the most recent FL and OH polls. This is going to happen! For all who haven't really studied up on Kerry, take heart. He is a much more intersting thinker than he's been given credit for, for the most part in this whole campaign. He's also a politician and all that...
Since I can't believe that even the majority of Bush supporters still take Cheney seriously, I doubt this obvious turnaround will get any real publicity beyone the bloggoshpere, but still, this race is Kerry's to lose, and I don't believe he will.
no imagination
I found this interesting..
"Saudi columnist Reem al-Saleh wrote in Kuwait's Al-Siyassah daily.
"He ignored 30 years of muscle-flexing invasions, villages massacred by chemical weapons ... millions of bodies, and mass graves. He has no right to hide the full truth.""
To my mind there is a presumption, that we are the ones to rectify that. How come the Sauds and Kuwait did not put together their own answer to this problem? They have the monetary resources and the influence. It can be argued that we created the monster, but sorry, when the Monster is knocking on my door, I am not waiting for Doc Frankenstein to decide to come on over and take care of it.
Maybe I'm reading this stuff wrong, cause if not, it's unbelievable...
Hillary Clinton's HILLPAC apparently has spent $1,760,365, of which only $180,000 has gone to candidates....
http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/...3994&
cycle=2004
Another piece to beat Cheney of the head with:
From Josh Marshall's August 12, 2004 05:22 PM post
*----------
As the shrewdest thinkers on the left and the right concede on this issue, our true strategic challenges in the Muslim Middle East are not conventional military ones, but hearts-and-minds challenges. The trick is to figure out how we can solve or ameliorate that hearts-and-minds problem while simultaneously destroying the relatively small (in numerical terms) but highly lethal groups that constitute an imminent danger. Or, to put it more crisply, how do we wipe out al Qaida (and al Qaida-like groups) without generating so much bad blood in the Islamic world that the Islamic world keeps producing new al Qaidas faster than we can destroy them?
*-------------
If the Bush administration had been sensible and sensitive in the war on terrorism, we wouldn't be in this morass in Iraq. This has become a great 200 billion dollar and growing vortex sucking the resources out of attacking Al-Queda and strengthening the protection of American ports, plants, cities.
send some money to move on pac
they plan to run ads during the RNCon
Please go tell your followers that you were a Democrat. They've been taking your name in vain.
That's the other guy--the one with the beatitudes. I'm all about the bottom line.
Time for a little smiting, I think
Is there a profit to be made? If so, take it up with my anointed one or that Halliburton servant, the one they call Dick.
Or, to put it more crisply, how do we wipe out al Qaida (and al Qaida-like groups) without generating so much bad blood in the Islamic world that the Islamic world keeps producing new al Qaidas faster than we can destroy them?
Tell the Saudi royal family to go take a flying fuck off in the pit of the World Trade Center they helped destroy and start using hybrid and fuel-cell cars? And then hope that Sharon and Arafat have simultaneous triple-stuffed falafal heart attacks?
HH didn't miss the point about sensitivity, read on:
HH: The Vice President is blunt, and some of the answers, especially as to the possibility of al Qaeda having access to nukes, are as sobering as can be. Note that he doesn't hesitate to call a shrine sensitive, but also mocks the idea that a war can be. This strikes me as exactly the right answer: tactics can be measured --the withdrawal from Fallujah in the spring, the care with which the Imam Ali Shrine is handled-- but the overall war cannot be made smooth.
Is this utter bullshit, or what? Cheney didn't say 'measured' he said sensitive, despite HH's fawning re-write.
Anonymous 7:11 & 7:31 by me.
The Vice President is blunt, and some of the answers, especially as to the possibility of al Qaeda having access to nukes, are as sobering as can be.
Remember when he lied his ass off about Saddam having nukes, bioweapons, chemweapons, mobile weapons labs and Iraq's ties to al Qaeda? Heh. Go fuck yourself, Dick.
Power definitely went to Cheneykins' head. And the heart attacks, instead of giving him an apprecaition for life, had the opposite effect.
Frankenstein's monster.
"If you look at our history, I don't think any of the wars we've won, were won by us being quote sensitive. I think of Abraham Lincoln and General Grant, they didn't wage sensitive war. Neither
did Roosevelt, neither did Eisenhower or MacArthur in World War II."
Actually, didn't allied bombers intentionally *not* bomb the cathedral in Köln? Wasn't it pretty much the only structure left standing?
"Or, to put it more crisply, how do we wipe out al Qaida (and al Qaida-like groups) without generating so much bad blood in the Islamic world that the Islamic world keeps producing new al Qaidas faster than we can destroy them?"
This s what Americans largely misunderstand. These groups were formed to agitate against American policies which were seen as unjust as of 10 years ago, more in some cases. What America has to do is take a fucking god damn hard look at itself, We as a public body, only respond to what we perceive as a threat. We don't do SHIT when we, ourselves, are directly threatening others. That is our problem. We've so abused our priveledge as the strongest nation on the planet, that no one takes our word seriously. We just CAN'T undo it. It will take years of pro-acitve, balanced action on our part. And the lazy-ass, stupid-ass American public just won't stand for that. There is no way out, other than to entirely re-configure our whole foreign policy strategy. Allegations that the US is fucking the whole world over are, in fact, NOT over-exaggerated.
I am really sick of the idea that anyone who dares to doubt or question the motives of our glorious leaders, is automatically labelled shrill.
Yes, but you noticed of course, that their response was a total non-response. Anyone reading that article with two brain cells to rub together can see that, too. And people are truly, blindingly, pissed off about the stop-loss situation. Anyone pissed off about the misuse and abuse of our troops is going to read the "shrill" charge and get even more pissed, then anytime they hear the word "shrill" in the future relating to any other topical outrage, the penny will drop once again.
For all who haven't really studied up on Kerry, take heart. He is a much more intersting thinker than he's been given credit for
...we're fucked!
CHENEY'S GAY?!?
Truth
Well, you never know where Dick's been.
(sorry, couldn't resist)
Actually, didn't allied bombers intentionally *not* bomb the cathedral in Köln? Wasn't it pretty much the only structure left standing?
Wasn't it because they used it as a focal point so that other real targets could be hit?
That's what we were told when we visited.
I'm surprised Krugman didn't reach across the table and slap O'Reilly across the face, really hard.
"or did you lose those IQ points huffing paint in Mississippi?
Sarcasm son sarcasm. How old are you? You don't know shit about Vietnam." Chauncy Gardner
Why didn't you clarify it the next post? Of course I know we inherited the war from the French, and at least I have some facts straight- Cheney didn't put his ass on the line, Kerry did. And no, I lost those IQ points on some very fine Samuel Smith Toddy Porters.
Anyway, they had better not destroy that shrine. They're trying to blame al-Sadr for this.
At their peril.
People who are still on team Cheney are idiots. It's a character flaw like Garofalo said. There's no other explanation.
Troy, put up or shut up. Straight up. I've read a ton about the guy in the past few months. With so many polls confirming the fact that most Dems. aren't excited about Kerry as a candidate, I've just got to believe that this is because most Dems. just haven't bothered to find out SHIT about his life as a whole. If you had, you would not worry so much about the day-to-day of the campaign. The guy's trying to get elected as President for God's sake! This AIN'T NO DFUCKING AROUND, as Black Francis would say...
I too have noticed that the Kerry campaign has been going after Bush and Cheney for avoiding service in Vietnam and I'm encouraged to see Democrats on the attack!!! We have to hammer, hammer away at this stereotype of Goopers as oh-so-pro-military and Dems as squishy, mushy appeasers until it's no longer taken as a given that things are that way.
completely OT, (and previously posted to an old thread-- but repostimg cuz i'm a weather geek)
Tropical Storm Earl has developed scarily in the last few hours-- he's forecast to follow Charley's route through the Caribbean.
the latest visible loop, for those interested:
http://tinyurl.com/43us7
"How come the Sauds and Kuwait did not put together their own answer to this problem? They have the monetary resources and the influence. It can be argued that we created the monster, but sorry, when the Monster is knocking on my door, I am not waiting for Doc Frankenstein to decide to come on over and take care of it." EkCenTrik
Yeah, it is pretty presumptuous. Of course, a great deal of their monetary resources come from us. I imagine that it's because it's such a strategic asset that we do not have a monetary lockhold and therefore cannot engage in proxy wars with as much ease as in say Nicaragua... the ME is of allied design. Also, as I recall the Iraqis, with world's second largest oil reserves, wanted to trade in Euros rather than Dollars, which would have posed a huge threat to our economy, especially as we are a debtor nation. So, it was necessary, as per the Wolfowitz doctrine, to not halt the sanctions, take the place over and kick the Europeans out. That's why we don't really want to deal with them, and have vilified the French and Germans- the economic engines of Europe. But in reality we must deal with them diplomatically because their economy, once completely unified, will be larger than ours. But, I'm really really not sure.
You know, we just wouldn't have this problem at all if we'd start a Manhattan project to get us off the Saudi's oil. We could just walk away and leave this part of the world alone.
The other evening on Chris Matthews,Chris floored me! He said that Dick Cheney, as Sec. of Defense during Desert Storm, is responsible for 10,000 American Troops being left in Saudi Arabia for all the years since that war ended. It is the presence of those American Troops that has enraged the Terrorist Factors, so badly, that Chris blames their presence for the attacks on Sept 11, and the deaths of 3,000 of us. I haven't thought of anything else since!
Orville
HllPac ick. It looks like one of those old "friends of" committees to get things for the office holder. My bad I thought those Pacs were raising money for candidates not for Hillary's personal expenses and there are some odd things on the list. My bad.
How about looking at Dean's list --they have rated candidates in terms of odds of winning etc they have some state and local races as well.
Thanks to you I certainly learned something new today.
Just what the fuck is left to say about these dirty fuckers? I am at a loss for words.
Anonymous, how do you think these folks become millionaires? (Aside from the revolving door.) They can pretty much spend what's left over from a campaign as they damn well please- great system, eh?
no imagination
So the basic truism is that we are not liberating Iraq or for that matter Kuwait in the past because we believe in justice, freedom and fair play. We are simply a country of lackies for the oil rich of the Middle East. So we are sending our soldiers to war, to die so someone can enjoy rich fabrics and hummingbird tongues.
Who'd a thunk it.
"Just what the fuck is left to say about these dirty fuckers?" Vinnie
Go Cheney yourself!
These projective attacks by the right are like a one trick pony. Once the John's figure out a way to unravel these tactics the bottom will fall out of this campaign. You would think that Edward's trial experience would give him an edge on the counter.
Rove has everyone attacking the things that Cheney and Bush are most vulnerable on.
You would think that as bright as the left is, they would figure out a counter by now. The biggest handicap is probably the media siding with the right and the lack of effective spokespersons from the Kerry camp.
OT:
Electoral-vote.com's Electoral Vote Predictor has Kerry 327, Bush 211.
fat sam
i'm watching earl closely. i'm vacationing on the central american gulf coast next week. or at least i was. we'll see.
Hecate at 8:02............my sentiments exactly. I have been saying for years that we need to reach a point where what happens in the Middle East does not have any effect on us. Solar, wind, geothermal, conservation, fuel cells, hybrid cars.........I like your name for it, a new manhattan project. I called my idea the new moon race.
"I am at a loss for words."
Vinnie,
Borrow some of mine. Remind everybody you know, early and often:
"George Bush has failed in his promise to the American people to create more jobs by over 7.1 million jobs."
Lay it on the guy on break at MacDonalds, the person on line with you at the grocery store, the guy at the bus stop.
"We are simply a country of lackies for the oil rich of the Middle East. So we are sending our soldiers to war, to die so someone can enjoy rich fabrics and hummingbird tongues.
Who'd a thunk it." EkCenTrik
Pretty much, except you forgot to mention that we're the lackeys of the oil cartels here, and the ME is their shaky ally- might makes right and all of that. Just ask an ancient Roman.. you'd think we'd have evolved by now.
we have our own palestine now. congratulations all.
you reap what you sow.
thats 'bout all you need to know.
For those who haven't linked to the article I referenced above, I just have to pull out this piece of the article because it's so beautifully done. Go Harkin! (One of only 3 senators who voted against Negroponte's confirmation, on moral grounds.)
Harkin also shot back at Cheney, who said in a visit to Iowa on Tuesday that presidential candidate John Kerry lacks a basic understanding of the war on terrorism and cannot make America safer. ..
"When I hear this coming from Dick Cheney, who was a coward, who would not serve during the Vietnam War, it makes my blood boil," Harkin said. "Those of us who served and those of us who went in the military don't like it when someone like a Dick Cheney comes out and he wants to be tough. Yeah, he'll be tough. He'll be tough with somebody else's blood, somebody else's kids. But not when it was his turn to go."
I'll have another big fat helping, please.
No Imagination, was that filthy expletive directed at me?
"You know, we just wouldn't have this problem at all if we'd start a Manhattan project to get us off the Saudi's oil. We could just walk away and leave this part of the world alone." Hecate
We could be magnanimous and share the technology with them too- oil is gonna' run out.. just a thought
Vinnie, no, it was what you should use when you run out of words
BTW, here is what Harkin said:
"When I hear this coming from Dick Cheney, who was a coward, who would not serve during the Vietnam War, it makes my blood boil," Harkin said. "Those of us who served and those of us who went in the military don't like it when someone like a Dick Cheney comes out and he wants to be tough. Yeah, he'll be tough. He'll be tough with somebody else's blood, somebody else's kids. But not when it was his turn to go."
I hope that opens the floodgates! The response, about "not getting Dean nominated" stunk of desperation.
no imagination
Actually I didn't forget them. Unfortunately with no real data to support such, I have begun to feel that our Oil Barrons are simply a cog of the ME Oil Cartels. Bush I and Bush II pretty much headline that fact.
You do realize I was being a bit facetious too right? The revelation is not new to me.
OT: Finally saw that dumb ad everyone was talking about. Yep...pretty vapid.
So that's what he's been up to.
Thousands of fans convened for one last Smarty party, an opportunity to say an emotional goodbye to Smarty Jones....
Don't cry for Smarty Jones, Philadelphia.
He may not be back on the track, but there are worse ways to end a career than making Team Smarty millions while standing stud in Kentucky.
Tom Harkin has always been the voice of reason.
Grassley, not so much, but he's had his moments.
Iowa to Kerry/Edwards.
sioux city, iowa
maybe I'm missing something...didn't Kerry use the term "sensitive war"? That's an oxymoron, and perhaps he meant to say "sensible war"...Cheney's use of the term sensitive is different. I don't think there's anything here, other than perhaps a mispeak, in which case, Bush's people are hardly the one's to call attention to that.
br>
Having said that, the attempt to insinuate Kerry is a wimp really does need to be addressed by the Kerry camp...Kerry's been doing alright counterattacking, but just "alright" isn't going to cut it these next few months.
Good for Tom Harkin. More like this!
"You do realize I was being a bit facetious too right? The revelation is not new to me.
OT: Finally saw that dumb ad everyone was talking about. Yep...pretty vapid."
EkCenTrik
Yes, unfortunately, I am not as able to express my own facetiousness, sarcasm, etc.- my post was just a polite way to say it's about the oil. However, for those in the Delaware Valley, I can highly recommend Samuel Smith's Taddy Porter and their Oatmeal Stout, Flying Fish Porter, and Victory Hop Devil.
is there more of a yin/yang in politics than harkin/grassley?
I love Iowa.
Anonymous:
How about looking at Dean's list --they have rated candidates in terms of odds of winning etc they have some state and local races as well.
Sounds good - I'll check it out. Thanks.
Tom Harkin is my new hero.
Maybe he could lend some cajones to the rest of the democrats that are sitting on their hands.
Orville,
Tony Knowles for Senate in Alaska. He can win and he's an incredible human being.
You're awesome!
dirtgirl
current forecast *knock on wood* shows you should be allright-- have a great time.
weather loves to stay in a pattern and i'm afraid the gulf coast, even florida maybe, will take it in the shorts again. i'm a weather nut, but earl's organization over the last few hours is scary-- another huge hurricane would be a serious blow (no pun intended) for the southeast.
I am the God of Jerry, Pat, and George.
But not me?
Re: Varney from postage above.
I saw that splendid little talking point balloon being floated today also by that mad homophobe aussie.
It'll be interesting to see if that lil excuse gets more play.
...hmmm, you might even say Cheney et al are sensitive to the sensitivity regarding this sensitive area...
Why does your press suck so?
kestral,
We could call it the moon the Saudis project. We just need to decide that it's our first national priority; spend money on it; bring our best minds to bear on it. It would fix our foreign policy and much of what's harming our environment in one fell swoop. What if we had a president who believed in science?
Harkin rocks! Let's keep him off of small aircraft.
chatty:
maybe I'm missing something...didn't Kerry use the term "sensitive war"? That's an oxymoron
No it's not. If it were not, there wouldn't be any debate about whether we should be going in to that cemetary or not, or any reluctance to harm that shrine. We would simply have saturation bombed them.
"What if we had a president who believed in science?" Hecate
I'd settle for one who didn't hide or rewrite the results
What if we had a president who believed in science?
Surely we will be landing on Mars any day now?
OT:
Don't ask me how I got there, but if you want a boggling experience in quasi-Catholic rightwingnuttery, try this.
www.tldm.org
"I am the God of Jerry, Pat, and George."
But not me?
No. Toby Keith hates you, Ringo. He'd come over and complain if I allowed you to worship me. I don't want that. The man never bathes. I'd have to replace my couch.
no imagination -
You're making me even more homesick than usual for the Delaware Valley. I'm living in exile in Arizona. But what the hell, I can help sign up new voters here, too.
When are we going to hear "we had to destroy Najaf in order to save it"?
cool website , bo.
I like the story..."Middle Eastern men are staking out airports, probing security measures and conducting test runs aboard airplanes for another terrorist attack..."
Based on that lady paranoids story.
LOL LOL LOL.
Cheney's just a SNAV:
Who like to talk about Kerry's feelings?
(Sensitive New Age Veeps.)
Who's into conflict, into stealing?
(Sensitive New Age Veeps.)
Who like to dress like mean morticians?
(Sensitive New Age Veeps.)
Who are hard to tell from Satan minions?
(Sensitive New Age Veeps.)
"For lifting an autumn down is not considered great strength, seeing the sun and the moon is not considered a sign of sharp vision, hearing thunder is not considered a sign of SENSITIVE hearing."
Sun Tzu - The Art of War
There's a meme for you.
Not exactly Lime Rickey, but not bad.
"Hecate at 8:02............my sentiments exactly. I have been saying for years that we need to reach a point where what happens in the Middle East does not have any effect on us. Solar, wind, geothermal, conservation, fuel cells, hybrid cars........."
A young man I know received a full fellowship at Brown to study engineering. His goal was to go to work in a small labratory in New England which did research in alternative fuels. By the time he finished his Ph.D. in Dec., the lab had closed its doors because Bush decided that this kind of research did not need government funding. Todd and his wife moved to Denmark where he is currently employed by a university and working on future fuels.
Tbodd,
Don't mess with that Lady, she's got connections. One of the subpages is a direct quote from Jesus, dated 1979!
bo,
From your link
"And the Jesus touched His lips. He said: "Warhead! A Warhead!"
That's some double-good wingnuttery with extra special sauce.
When Bush announce his initiative for hydrogen-based fuel, it was just more Orwellian double speak. At the time, that technology looked like the most expensive (in energy, pollutants and money) to produce, and the one with the most distant payoff.
But this article, linked in Kevin Drum's Peak Oil post, is really very,very hopeful. It represents some real breakthroughs and creative overlap with ethanol/bioengineering. This is just the sort of thing we should be fund full-out -
if we had a president who believed in science.
also OT,
if you wanna be really, really scared, check out the scott-peterson-is-innocent freaks posting here. i found it by accident in a google search and couldn't tear myself away.
fat sam,
my vacation may be safe (thankfully i chose not to book through miami this time), but if earl turns and stands any chance of hitting further up the east coast, i'll wind up cancelling anyway. i work in emergency management and when a storm threatens, we all get stuck working.
Harkin said it exactly right. Now all you dems who go on TV, radio, etc. start saying the same shit everyday. Rinse, repeat. Do it for 14 straight days. Every time you Dems open your mouth you say:
"Dick Cheney who was a coward, who would not serve during the Vietnam War, it makes my blood boil," Harkin said. "Those of us who served and those of us who went in the military don't like it when someone like a Dick Cheney comes out and he wants to be tough. Yeah, he'll be tough. He'll be tough with somebody else's blood, somebody else's kids. But not when it was his turn to go."
I am tired of seeing this response to Cheney: "Ohh, Dick Cheney is being negative, he has no plan for America's future." This the current stock answer
of the Dems. That is so ineffectual.
Have them Dems learned nothing from 8 years of Clinton, Max Cleland, etc?
I guess Al Gore was wrong- Mother Mary and Jesus invented the internet, and are running a cheesy looking website (however they better get the Holy spirit in there to inspire some better graphics).
In short, an army marching into an enemy's country is destitute of the mechanism through which obedience is rendered; it has to institute its officials into their places, which can only be done by a strong hand, and this cannot be effected thoroughly without sacrifices and difficulties, nor is it the work of a moment—From this it follows that a change of the system of communication is much less easy of accomplishment in an enemy's country than in our own, where it is at least possible; and it also follows that the army is more restricted in its movements, and must be much more SENSITIVE about any demonstrations against its communications.
Von Clausewitz, "On War"
>maybe I'm missing something
Yeah. You are.
Why not google Kerry's quote instead of looking like a total asshole...
"You're making me even more homesick than usual for the Delaware Valley. I'm living in exile in Arizona. But what the hell, I can help sign up new voters here, too." Kate
Well, it's not like it's Portland, (beer-wise), but it's getting really good. Ah, we're as provincial as ever. Arizona has it's own beauty. Went to Rose tree media district, grad Penncrest, anywhere nearby?
Von Clausewitz, "On War"- bannedmann
Great quote.
Incase anyone's interested, these are our biggest oil suppliers.
Geez... I just got you quotes from two of the greatest military strategy minds in the history of our species, and no response?
look up
Porter Goose, how would you know what dems or repubs are planning?
Got an inside scoop?
Do tell.
Toby Keith hates you, Ringo. He'd come over and complain if I allowed you to worship me.
If worship is out of the question, I suppose I could make do with shyly admiring you, in a lukewarm, noncommittal (and of course hetero***ual) kind of way.
Von Clausewitz, "On War"- bannedmann
Great quote.
Incase anyone's interested, these are our biggest oil suppliers.
-no imagination
These are the things we need to beat the neo-cons over the head with.
Hurricaine EARL? What, is this the season for ridiculous names?
Arizona has it's own beauty.
Ahhh. yes it does. Jo jO loves Tucson
"look up"
-no imagination
simultaneous posts
I have no idea what the Dems are planning, I just want them to take a page out of Tom Harkin's hymnal and sing it loud and long. As far as the reThugs, I put nothing past them and their handmaidens, the corporate owned media.
Entering the war on terror George Bush recommends that "American schoolchild get a Middle Eastern pen pal." Isn't that "sensitive" of him.
Hurricaine EARL? What, is this the season for ridiculous names?
GWPDA
Just hope we don't get to "S." Hurricane Skippy might be a little tough to deal with 
Where the hell is Bartcop on the blogroll? When did he fall out of favor? This morning he was there...
Excuse me if I missed the memo, but I searched three of the top comments pages for a hint to the answer, to no avail...
Was wondering about Bart myself.
OT
Fascinating, in its trollogic:
(excerpt)
TinyURL: Not Welcome at LGF
TinyURL.com is a good idea. It lets people cut and paste a much smaller web address; for example, a URL like:
http://www.littlegreenfootballs....og/?
entry=12134
can be replaced with something like:
http://tinyurl.com/5ge9s
So, you ask, if it’s so useful, why am I banning TinyURL addresses now? (Did I mention I’m banning TinyURL addresses?)
Because, like a lot of good ideas, it’s being used for a nasty purpose. The haters and Nazi perverts have realized that with TinyURL, they can post a link to a Jew-hating or wacko conspiracy website and it isn’t immediately obvious, because TinyURL hides the actual domain name. You don’t know what website you’re going to see until you’re already there.
Why do these pinheads do this? It’s almost as if they realize on some level what hateful, repulsive freaks they are, and are trying to hide it. Maybe they believe that if they can trick people into going to these vile web sites, the poison will take over their brains like zombie juice and turn them into an army of antisemite Morlocks, ruled by the overlord and his invincible TinyURL weapon! Or maybe they’re just mentally ill.
In any case, no more TinyURL web addresses here. It’s too easy to abuse.
by Charles at 02:31 PM PST
(/excerpt)
I usually label where my tiny url is linked to.
@pendergast...exactly..WTF?
E-Zines
MediaWhoresOnline
Bear Left
Daily Howler
American Politics Journal
Template Problem?
A-man...don't discount Bart...
I usually label where my tiny url is linked to.
As do I. What's this? The latest act of desperation?
Susan at 8:43...........the Danes have got their heads on straight WRT alternative fuels. IIRC they will achieve energy independence soon, primarily because of their innovative use of wind power. Apparently NIMBYism is not a problem there..........
The joke is, these people are already totalitarians. They think in terms of the Manson family member terrified of anything not approved by Charlie. This horrible awful violation was that you might go someplace new-these racists define "Nazi" as anything not palatable to the fascist illegal settlers' movement. As if comments not toeing the line aren't deleted anyway.
I usually label where my tiny url is linked to.
As do I. What's this? The latest act of desperation?
Indeed. And perhaps those who post at LGF are rather less honorable, honest, and, well, stable, than elsewhere?
>The latest act of desperation?
Seeing their first act is usually desperation...
they do run the gamut of desperation from a to b.
Does anyone in October 2001, "the White House's first ever Ramadan dinner -- not a banquet, that would have been insensitive, and the whole point of the dministration's "Ramadan public relations offensive" is, according to The Washington Post, to "highlight its sensitivity to Islamic tradition."
Oops.
Does anyone remember in October 2001, "the White House's first ever Ramadan dinner -- not a banquet, that would have been insensitive, and the whole point of the dministration's "Ramadan public relations offensive" is, according to The Washington Post, to "highlight its sensitivity to Islamic tradition."
Great! The Press is all over that Harkin story. Let's see, according to Google News search Harkin on Cheney is covered by Waterloo Cedar Falls Courier, IA, WHO-TV, IA, Iowa Channel.com, WOI, IA, KCRG, IA and WQAD, IL. Way to go.
Great! The Press is all over that Harkin story. Let's see, according to Google News search Harkin on Cheney is covered by Waterloo Cedar Falls Courier, IA, WHO-TV, IA, Iowa Channel.com, WOI, IA, KCRG, IA and WQAD, IL. Way to go.
Yeah. The Voters. In. Iowa.
Hello?
We'll see if it shows up nationally. Anyone bet a $50 donation to K/E it doesn't?
hello again
Rev. Alston was never under Kerry's command on PCF-94.
You can't really fault the reverend for beleiveing he was. You see he received a tramatic head wound. I tend to beleive his memory got a bit scrambled.
The other Band of Brothers, however, are fully in command of their faculties. So what we have here is a verifiable conspiracy to defraud the voters.
How many are there? Twelve, I think, not counting Rev. Alston. All of them know the good reverend was never under Lt. Ketchup's command.
A provable iron clad lie
- sue me
Iowa's neck and neck (or at least they were on Aug. 3).
http://www.electoral-vote.com/au.../aug/
aug14.html
Every little bit helps.
Doesn't matter if it shows up nationally.
sue me
Blow me.
Fuck you Nancy...I read the whole quote, and it struck me as an oxymoron, as it will to most other people. That's what the Republicans have picked up on to try to make Kerry out to be a wimp,...I know what he means, maybe, and Orville makes a good point as to why it's not an oxymoron. So back off...
Hurricaine EARL? What, is this the season for ridiculous names?
Bob was the worst. How could anyone take a hurricaine named Bob, seriously?
I consider myself an articulate person, but when ever I hear Cheney all I can say is "What a fuckin' fuck!"
I'm not proud....
I read the whole quote, and it struck me as an oxymoron, as it will to most other people.
You wouldn't know an oxymoron if it smacked you upside of the head.
Either that you you have no understanding of context.
And not enough intelligence to understand that words have several meanings.
Nice try, though.
Going to die on the bridge of Tuam today?
The persistent misspelling of the word as "hurricaine" leads me to believe you are all French, and therefore not to be trusted.
Chatty wouldn't know oxymoron from oxycotin
Ready to sue Paper Tiger
need your address and full name for papers -please post
I just have to say, there is no way that "sensitive war" could be an oxymoron. "Peaceful war" would be an oxymoron. The two terms have to be directly opposed (like "jumbo shrimp").
And dare I say that anyone who has won a war has won that war by waging it in a manner that was "sensitive" to what the fuck was going on?
I had a computer named Bob once. It was pretty good, but when people asked if I owned a Mac or an IBM or a Dell, and I had to explain about Bob, things got difficult.
The baseball park in Phoenix is named BOB. There you are.
Pie.
I'm sorta trying to criticize the press corps around the nation for not reacting at all. Iowa isn't enough. I want to hear some GOP cunt in primetime to demand JFK to denounce Harkin's comments. I want mayhem in newsrooms from coast to coast.
I read stuff like this in today's Washington Post --
Republicans announced yesterday that Michael Reagan, who calls embryonic stem cell research "junk science," will speak at the national convention in New York.
-- and I think, "WTF"? I think they are self-destructing and in terrible denial as to how bad things are.
Paper Tiger
I have seen the offical Navy Record of Alston's service and they prove Alston version is true. What have you got a note from Donald Segretti
you could nothing but big fat lies put up your address and let's go to court. I'm still waiting for your address from your last claim
you are bullshit and you should be walking on by
Right on Himitsu.
Anon, they ain't self destructing they are destroying all of us.
We Are All So Sensitive Now, yeah .
.....
All of a sudden the rethugniks starting with Joobio and assorted folks all over the air waves showing their quiche eating kinder gentler selves, dispensing baby kisses and hugs every which way.
.....
Smoochie woochie alert folks, get out your shields.
.....
Mikey has so much anger at his parents. His mom looked the other way while facilitating his repeated abuse. That pretty much explains it, along with the fact that "junk science" is a fundamental-misunderstanding term originally used against global warming.
Michael Reagan, who calls embryonic stem cell research "junk science,"
Anyone can be an expert in Republican America, anyone but an expert that is.
This one should be as good as the brilliant scientific work of a former first lady of Rumania. Anyone could be an expert there too, as long as you were married to the dictator.
Republicans announced yesterday that Michael Reagan, who calls embryonic stem cell research "junk science," will speak at the national convention in New York.
Someone, and by someone I mean either Kerry or Edwards, needs to point out the galling stupidity of the idea that stem-cell research "isn't promising" or is "junk science" because it hasn't produced results yet.
Speaking of hurricanes, those affected by the storms will now get a good lesson in just what it means to have the Guard and Reserves deployed overseas instead of available to help with natural disasters. As another poster said: "If we knew Mother Nature was going to hijack a storm and fly it into our cities, we would have moved heaven and earth to stop her."
They call it "hurricane season". I wonder why?
The baseball park in Phoenix is named BOB.
What a great fucking park. I attended a game (the Cards were in town) when I was cursed with a teaching gig in Phoenix. In late July. Who knew there was such a thing as virga?
Republicans announced yesterday that Michael Reagan, who calls embryonic stem cell research "junk science," will speak at the national convention in New York.
Chatterbox over at Slate had the right hed today: Pleasant Surprise of the Week - Karl Rove isn't as smart as we thought he was.
Right now at Uri Avnery's site there's a great little explanation of what Sharon's up to.
I want mayhem in newsrooms from coast to coast.
Anon, they ain't self destructing they are destroying all of us.
You boys need to go play in the sandbox.
Have fun!
no imagination -
Grew up in South Jersey, Merchantville area, went to the diocesan Catholic high school, during Vietnam. 'Twas chosen out of all Catholic high schools in the country to try out a radically progressive (for the times) education curriculum. Required reading: (in addition to the "classics") Vonnegut, Joseph Heller, Viktor Frankl, Theodore Roszak ("The Making of the Counterculture"), even Richard Brautigan ("Trout Fishing in America"), Dalton Trumbo ("Johnny Got His Gun"), etc. Our religious education included the docs of Vatican II, Dorothy Day, Thomas Merton, MLK, Gandhi. Our senior class speaker was Dan Berrigan, who appeared and debated with an ROTC recruiting officer on the "morality" of the war. Our teachers hired chartered buses to take us to DC for the Vietnam War Moratorium. Sigh. I grew up with THAT Catholicism, and that's been mine ever since.
But, I love Rose Tree, enjoyed an evening meeting and chatting with Harry Kalas at the Rose Tree Inn (he let me try on his World Series ring!), I believe he lives right in your family's neighborhood. And when I was in grad school I lived in various Delco spots, and hung out in Media a good bit. Enjoyable, pretty little town. Restaurants near the courthouse are (were?) quite good. Give my love to that neck of the woods, eh? I miss deciduous trees and their bright green and autumn colors horribly.
Is Ortlieb's JazzHaus (in Northern Liberties section, Philly) still humming along? Always got great beer and music there.
Also, have you ever been to the White Dog Cafe, next to the Black Cat gift shop in University City? The owner of both establishments, Judy Wicks, is very progressive politically, and always used to have lectures and programs there. Interesting clientele, lots of foreign students. Judy testified to Congress years back about how she, as a small business owner, went about obtaining health benefits for her waiters and waitresses and gift shop clerks. Very cool lady. Sold pretty good beer, too.
The other day, I saw a clip of Laura Bush on a stage, speaking about stem cell research. Behind her was a guy in a lab coat. I honestly wondered whether the guy was some sort of actual scientist, or if he was just an actor or whatever.
{That is, if you trust us to link to Avnery and not to "Nazi perverts" (is that "night porter chic"?).}
Pie, are you serious? You do not see the reThuglican anit-science stance, as a threat to us?
...I read the whole quote, and it struck me as an oxymoron, as it will to most other people.
Certs is a candy Mint and Breathmint.
There are people who can walk and chew gum at the same time.
Sensitivity in public relations wars (which so called "war on terror" really is...) you know, the ones where we are fighting for people's hearts and minds, is smart. It is called getting people on your side, instead of alienating you allies (i.e. The French, who have experience in the Region and now have troops in Afghanistan). Not mention, sensitivity to the cultural concerns of the people we want to convince to meet up with flowers and candy when we do the cakewalk up their streets.)
Being a strong leader requires a little more than walking around like a bully and invading countries which had nothing to do with "the war on terror"
Go go back in your hole, YOU IGNORANT LITTLE WIMPY asshole.
anti
Rev. Alstone and Kerry...
"...Kerry took over command of Alston's boat, PCF-94, after a battle in which the boat's previous lieutenant had been injured. Alston was also wounded in that fight, a clean gunshot through the arm....Alston, who manned twin .50-caliber machine guns on the Swift boat....Alston and Kerry both left Vietnam and the Navy in 1969....Alston stayed in sporadic contact with Kerry after the war. Kerry invited him to his first wedding, to Julia Thorne in 1970, and sent Christmas cards to Alston's parents' house...."
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/cha.../9251042.htm?
1c
More neo-con lies.
The other day, I saw a clip of Laura Bush on a stage, speaking about stem cell research. Behind her was a guy in a lab coat. I honestly wondered whether the guy was some sort of actual scientist, or if he was just an actor or whatever.
"I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV..."
Republicans announced yesterday that Michael Reagan, who calls embryonic stem cell research "junk science," will speak at the national convention in New York.
Priceless.
the tit for tat republicans
"you dems got Jr.?
well, we got the other one, so there".
Bush blew it in Iraq ( with due credit to Juan Cole )
Last Thursday, the Board of Muslim Clergy, a Sunni fundamentalist organization with substantial support from Sunni Muslims, issued a fatwa or ruling that no Iraqi Muslim may participate in an attack on other Iraqi Muslims in support of the occupying power. That is, even the hard line Sunnis, who mostly don't like Shiites, are siding with Moqtada Al-Sadr against Allawi, Bush, and Rumsfeld on this one.
There are pro-Muqtada demonstrations all over Iraq, including in the hard line Sunni areas and big demonstrations in Iran, Bahrain and Pakistan.
Muqtada said that calling Iyad Allawia "Shiite" was like calling Saddam Hussein a "Muslim."
The irony is that Bush has indeed united the tribal sects in Iraq but the problem is that they are against him, his puppet Allawi, and the neocon American brand of democracy.
Mission accomplished
- George W. Bush
NTodd - that's my favorite weather! Virga at BOB - and if you can get enough people together you can rent the pool and absolutely bask in the virga. In fact, there's a heavy virga going on right now. Nice. Unfortunately, Bank One has been bought by JP Morgan-Chase, which kind of messes up the acronym. Doing anything in Phoenix in July brings risks - kind of like when I volunteered to lecture in Edmonton one November. What were we thinking?
>if he was just an actor or whatever.
Was he wearing a labcoat?
Waiting for Paper Tiger to give us the information to serve the papers -
ready to go pretty much no matter where you are -or are you out changing your paper pants?
Kate @9.59- nice post, beautifully written.
Oh man, I just showed sensitivity.
OTS, but does anyone know of ANY appearance Bush has made on the campaign trail that was open to the public, i.e., that was not restricted to republicans only? I work next to a republican, and she and I try to keep our (very few) political conversations as polite as possible, and I told her I didn't think W ever appeared in front of ALL US citizens, only repubs. She countered with two refs, an appearance he made in Saginaw and again when he ate raw corn at an appearance in Iowa. I am not the best w/searching, but couldn't find specifics to be able to say, no, those were both repub-only events, as well. Thanks for whatever help you can give.
Entering the war on terror George Bush recommends that "American schoolchild get a Middle Eastern pen pal." Isn't that "sensitive" of him.
And just about now, any schoolchild engaged in such correspondence will be getting a knock on the door from Ashcroft, no?
Michael Reagan:
"Mom loves you best, Ron. Waaaaahhhh!"
And Michael, you just proved why that's the case. Way to go.
http://tinyurl.com/6zdhz
(from the news observer)
take this one back to Freeper Madness, Paper Tiger.
E-mail about Edwards disputed
Neighbors say an online posting skewering the candidate is just plain wrong
RALEIGH -- An online essay describing vice presidential candidate John Edwards as a rude and selfish neighbor is stirring up placid Country Club Hills.
For the most part, Democrats and Republicans on Edwards' street, Alleghany Drive, say the man described in the composition doesn't resemble the guy they know, and they say one claim in the essay is demonstrably false.
The essay, "Meet my neighbor," says Edwards sometimes extended his middle finger to drivers while jogging, skipped neighborhood gatherings and never apologized for the disruption his candidacy caused for his neighbors.
Attributed to B.T. Nicholson, the essay was posted Aug. 3 on a Web site called Free Republic, and it has received more than 100 positive online responses there. The post was no longer availabe on Friday afternoon; a note on the site said it was removed at the poster's request. It also is posted on at least eight other sites.
Alleghany Drive homeowners began finding the essay in their e-mail last week. One of Edwards' next-door neighbors heard about it at her exercise class Thursday.
"John's not a rude person," said Martha Crampton, who has lived next door to Edwards for years. "I just think it's mean-spirited."
Brian T. Nicholson, a registered Republican who lives on Yadkin Drive, which intersects Alleghany, said he wrote an e-mail message to family and friends that was then doctored and posted on the Web as the essay. He would not say which portions of the essay he wrote and which were changed.
"I just don't want to talk about this anymore," he said. "You can't attribute it to me."
Neighbors said they are accustomed to seeing Edwards jog down their street, to and from a nearby greenway. Country Club Hills is a pricey neighborhood off Glenwood Avenue, where homes had an average value of about $509,500 at the 2000 census.
The essay says, "If you drove past him as he was jogging on the road and didn't slow down enough for his taste he'd flip you the bird. He last showed me his middle finger about four years ago."
But neighbors this week said they saw Edwards wave while jogging, sometimes giving a thumbs up or stopping briefly to chat. No one said they saw any rude gesture.
"I've never seen him be rude or ugly," said Tootie Flythe, who was so upset by the essay that she wrote a multipage response in longhand, which she is keeping to herself.
Flythe lives across the street from the Edwardses, and she said John Edwards sometimes cuts through her yard to get to a greenway. He always stops to ask about her family, said Flythe, a 54-year-old registered Democrat.
The essay says Edwards didn't hang out with neighbors on the Fourth of July or go out to sledding hills to watch kids play in the snow.
at least they didn't dress up Bush hizzelf in a lab coat and try to make him do a "Mr. Sceince" thing
oh god, i can see it now...
Bush:"Hey boys n' girls, looky here, it's me! Your Preznit ! ! Hey neat, I'm the new Mr. Scien-terr..um...-ifican guy."
mr SCIENCE oops
The essay says Edwards didn't hang out with neighbors on the Fourth of July or go out to sledding hills to watch kids play in the snow.
But Edwards' neighbors said they don't do that, either.
Ray Mays lived across the street from Edwards for 10 years, until he sold his house this summer. Mays, a 61-year-old who said he will vote for President Bush this fall, said he and Edwards were "passing acquaintances," though he knew Elizabeth Edwards better.
Mays attended one or two Christmas parties at the Edwards home and remembers Elizabeth spending most of her time in the kitchen, cooking.
"They were always friendly," he said. "They never gave the appearance that they were stuck up in any way."
Neighbors say the letter is flat wrong when it says Edwards never apologized for disrupting the neighborhood and never offered to compensate neighbors for lawns damaged by media vans parked outside their homes.
In a note to neighbors dated Jan. 2, 2003, the day he announced his presidential bid, the Edwardses wrote, "We apologize for any inconvenience you and your family may have experienced." They offered to pay to repair lawns damaged by media vehicles.
Ron Eckstein, a spokesman for the John Kerry/John Edwards campaign, said the letter is "completely baseless."
When Edwards is at home, which isn't often these days, police block his section of Alleghany Drive but let residents, guests and home repair services through.
The essay complained about that inconvenience, but Alleghany residents said they manage easily.
"We have a lot of contractors coming and going," said Brenda Gibson, 47, a registered Republican. "I have nothing negative to say."
Some of the neighbors said they liked having traffic access limited because it stops cars from speeding down the narrow street.
"Alleghany was just a thoroughfare," said Clotilde Collins, 74. "You take your life in your hands trying to get out of your driveway."
Some said they are excited to have Edwards as a neighbor. And they like looking out their windows to see Secret Service agents.
"I love the security," Gibson said.
Nancy is not Michael's mother
Jane Wyman is Michael's mother.
Nancy is his evil step mother
and to make matters worse Michael is not blood --the adopted child.
Best and worst moment of the Reagan death fest at the end when Patty and RonnyP has to pry Nancy off the coffin and Michael tried to horn in --she gave him the same look delivered to Oliver North when she called him a liar on national television.
The irony is that Bush has indeed united the tribal sects in Iraq but the problem is that they are against him, his puppet Allawi, and the neocon American brand of democracy.
Mission accomplished
- George W. Bush
a uniter not a divider!
Junk Science.
Attack the thing that you are most vunerable on. The world is flat rethugs talking about science? OK.
Let's see, the ultra rightwing christians are going to give us tons of cash and votes, so we will pretend that 100 years of scientific research didn't occur. For 100,000 votes and 10 million dollars, the wingnuts will swear that the sun revolves around the earth.
NTodd - that's my favorite weather! Virga at BOB...
Sorry, but that's just fucked up shit. Where I come from, the precip not only hits the land, it builds up!
Unfortunately, Bank One has been bought by JP Morgan-Chase, which kind of messes up the acronym.
What, JPMCB isn't catchy enough for ya?
Doing anything in Phoenix in July brings risks - kind of like when I volunteered to lecture in Edmonton one November. What were we thinking?
Aye. Still, I prefer dealing with harsh cold weather than harsh hot weather. You can always add more layers, but there's a real limit to how many layers you can remove!
No turkee for Michael I guess.
I guess he must have read the will.
The neighbor hates him story is a frequent rightwing tool. It's usually a setup with some resident of the Republican nervous hospital on leave. They did it last year with Gray Davis in an article that ended up on the NBC nightly news and in the NY Times and it was a total bullshit story.
BTW, totally OT re: BOB, but I was there during the Diamondbacks' inaugural season, and was just totally impressed with the energy level. My fave part: when that Lion King-esque music started playing well before game time as the roof opened, and the stadium was already hopping. My biggest surprise: finding Ben and Jerry's ice cream.
I also have seen a bunch of Spring Training games in Phoenix, but I prefer BOB--I got wicked sunburn watching the first time, when I saw the Rockies and As play (hmmm...maybe that was in Scottsdale? Or Cambodia? Eh, it was a long time ago.)
"Neighbor hate" is of course fascinating for anyone familiar with Karl Rove, who lost his fucking mind in a minor dispute with a neighbor and was revealed as an incredibly small fatass who could not tolerate a single slight.
Fearless prediction for tomorrow: Bushie will be all smoochie woochie all over the place.
(eeeek).
.....
Then Monday when he talks about the troops, he will be alternately teary eyed and snarly and pugnacious as the case may be.
.....
Future predictions as the need arises.
.....
Awwww, GOB (wipes away a tear, self-consciously)!!
Shucks.
I wonder if sensitivity is required for wars on weather?
I wonder if sensitivity is required for wars on weather?
Hell no! We must show great resolve and conviction as we prosecute the War on Weather. First thing we do, let's kill all the meteorologists.
You know, I almost feel sorry for the drone who has to comb through Kerry's or Edward's speeches looking for something to lift out of context, twist beyond reason, so Dick Cheney can do "sovernity" damage control for the kid.
But having him speak before the the VFW has to take chutzbah. First thing is, he can't wear the little cap.
NTodd "You can always add more layers, but there's a real limit to how many layers you can remove!"
Sez you. Despite my genetic background (8th generation Canadian) and birthright disposition (born Calgary in March - saw the outside when it was warm enough, in August), let me tell you, by the time I'd walked ACROSS THE ALLEY between lecture hall and hotel I could not bend. The term 'frozen solid' was not a metaphor. Drunken people sobered up long enough to surround me and raise the ambient temperature enough so that I could become merely unspeakably cold. AND I WAS WEARING MY MOTHER'S THIRTEEN STRIPE BEAVER COAT. Wasn't enough. I know better now. Never go places where windshield wiper fluid is a required safety device. BOB is good. Virga is good. HEAT is good. Cold is evil. Phoenix good.
Aye. Still, I prefer dealing with harsh cold weather than harsh hot weather. You can always add more layers, but there's a real limit to how many layers you can remove!
Amen, Brother NTodd, Amen! I say that to Mr. Kate all the time when he makes a move like he's gonna inch the thermostat up here in a Phoenix summer. Can't take off my skin, dammit! Thank God the house we just bought has a pool. Otherwise I'd be even more cranky than usual.
"People that are really very weird can get into sensitive positions and have a tremendous impact on history."
Governor George W. Bush, Jr.
expectingrain -
Well, he would know.
Kestral & Hecate -- Have you visited the Apollo Alliance site? It is all about what you're talking about and has been alluded to by Kerry many times already.
Here's the link:
http://www.apolloalliance.org/
This was my first visit to the Hewitt website. I see that he is a professor of law at Chapman, where, I would guess, he teaches a course in that favorite legal technique of poisoning the well. (If we can't get our way, no one else will either.) That's the main idea I took away from all the stuff on the site. From his picture, Hewitt seems to "clean up good." All the earmarks of a right winger there. Not pretty.
Tom Harkin, my hero.
From AP via Waterloo/Cedar Rapids Courier.
Sen. Tom Harkin called Vice President Dick Cheney a "coward" for avoiding service in Vietnam and called on President Bush to end the "backdoor draft."
[snip]
Harkin, who served as a jet pilot in the Navy, said ... [snip]
Harkin also shot back at Cheney, who said in a visit to Iowa on Tuesday that presidential candidate John Kerry lacks a basic understanding of the war on terrorism and cannot make America safer.
He noted that Cheney had several student deferments that allowed him to skip serving in Vietnam.
"When I hear this coming from Dick Cheney, who was a coward, who would not serve during the Vietnam War, it makes my blood boil," Harkin said. "Those of us who served and those of us who went in the military don't like it when someone like a Dick Cheney comes out and he wants to be tough. Yeah, he'll be tough. He'll be tough with somebody else's blood, somebody else's kids. But not when it was his turn to go."
...he will be alternately teary eyed and snarly and pugnacious...
MinnieB9
Gonna do his Bobcat Goldthwaite impression? I can hardly wait!
clustercheney! i luv it!
Well, since nobody else has said it:
Dude, did the Vice President just call himself a pussy?
(kudos, Jon Stewart)
I fear Harkin is falling for the trap....stay on the issues...avoid the name calling...the middle just doesn't like that...hang them with their own words...
OT, but what a bunch of pig fuckers:
Ads attacking Dems aimed at black voters
BY ALEXA CAPELOTO
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER
August 14, 2004
As Democratic vice presidential candidate John Edwards campaigned in Flint on Friday, a series of controversial radio ads played on Detroit airways attacking his running mate John Kerry and the Democratic Party for taking African-American voters for granted. "Our community doesn't need another wishy-washy, rich, white politician," a female voice says in one spot running on WQBH-AM (1400), a Detroit station geared toward a black audience. "And boy, does Kerry come across as rich, white and wishy-washy."
The ads are from People of Color United, a Washington, D.C., nonprofit led by activist Virginia Walden Ford. For $70,000, the group bought airtime in Detroit and eight other cities: Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, St. Louis, Kansas City, Toledo and Milwaukee.
Newspaper ads also are ready to run in those areas, including in the Free Press, and television spots may follow, said those involved in the campaign.
"I think that in the Midwest those are the strong pockets of undecided African-American voters," said Ford, who switched from Democrat to Republican 1 1/2 years ago. "It seemed like these were the cities that maybe needed to be informed."
Ford said she's not trying to lure black voters to the Republican Party, but wants to get them thinking critically before they make their choice in the Nov. 2 presidential election. Either way, the ads are unabashedly critical of Kerry and the Democrats.
And the major backer of the campaign is J. Patrick Rooney, an insurance magnate and strong supporter of President George W. Bush. Ford said Rooney, who is white, has provided about half the funding.
One of the ads chides Kerry's wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry, for calling herself African American because she was born in Mozambique.
"His wife says she's an African American," the voice in that ad says. "While technically true, I don't believe a white woman, raised in Africa, surrounded by servants, qualifies."
Democrats around the country, including black former presidential candidate Al Sharpton, criticized the ads.
"Instead of talking about issues, they decided to use the politics of race to sway voters and, in some instances, confuse them," said Rodell Mollineau, Michigan communications director for the Kerry campaign.
Ford said she doesn't understand why the ads are causing such a stir. Her goal, she said, is to make sure black voters know their candidates this election year.
"I've been really puzzled by the controversy," she said.
http://tinyurl.com/3jo4m
I suppose it was too much to expect the GOP to realize that the Chimp is also white, rich, and is infintely more wishy-washy than John Kerry (from North Korea to the 9/11 Commission, it's all there; the Democrats still continue to suck - a lot - on countering
The Democrats still continue to suck - a lot - on countering the "wishy-washy / flip-flop" meme and exposing it for the GWB projection that it is (from North Korea to the 9/11 Commission, it's all there. USE IT.)
Anyway, do you think we'll see GWB show up at the convention sporting corn rows?
Describing an area as sensitive, is not the same as running a sensitive war. Not to make excuses. Though what IS a sensitive war?
Sez you.
LOL!
Well, this Vermonter of Ukrainian-descent (and an ex-Ohioan vet of the legendary Blizzard of '7
loves going out in the snow and cold. My wife thinks I'm nuts, but one of my fave winter activities is to get bundled up (I look bigger than the Michelin man) and walk around in temps below -30F. Beards are good.
Now he's just showing off.
How being sensitive with intelligence, i.e. Plame, the Al Qaeda mole?
That's an important way of being sensitive that clearly this administration has failed at.
I fear Harkin is falling for the trap....stay on the issues...avoid the name calling...the middle just doesn't like that...hang them with their own words...
Bullshit.
This is rightwing propaganda.
Oh look Al Gore is crazy! He's talking back to daddy.
Oh, look Howard Dean is insane. He's pissed off and telling the truth.
Oh look, little sister has yelled at daddy for being drunk and beating up mommy. Now she's in trouble!
Fuck the republicans. They are destroying this country!
what IS a sensitive war?
The right way to win a moral conflict [whore].
S in Mich,
That's hilarious.
It ranks right up there with "Reefer Madness" in its absurdity.
I smell desperation.
Any Nemesis meltdowns today? Just checking in.
The people of color ads are actually paid for by an old white rich guy.
How stupid does Bush think the Black community is?
Hugh Hewitt: I take pride in being stupid and wrong. I'm under the illusion that there is some kind of legitimate academic argument for conservatism. This illusion is nourished by the prominence of certain conservative and reactionary viewpoints at our best institutions of higher learning. I thank god, despite decisive refutation to every conservative argument in the last 50 years, people like me continue to get hired. I have no idea why this is.
"The other day, I saw a clip of Laura Bush on a stage, speaking about stem cell research. Behind her was a guy in a lab coat. I honestly wondered whether the guy was some sort of actual scientist, or if he was just an actor or whatever."
No, it was probably the person at the local department store make-up counter. They wear lab coats. So do the people who take your blood at a blood drive. Good, hardworking folks they all are - but dressing someone up in a lab coat does not make them a scientist.
Also, what scientist would ever wear a lab coat if they weren't in a lab?
The people of color ads are actually paid for by an old white rich guy.
How stupid does Bush think the Black community is?
Katherine Graham Cracker | Email | Homepage | 08.14.04 - 11:20 pm | #
That's truly the question, isn't it?
The black folks I know vividly remember which one of the rich, white guys running for president filed an amicus brief with the Supreme Court against affirmative action (even though the University of Michigan, the school in question in the case, still awards "legacy" points to applicants.)
Request Wolf to ask his rep. guests tomorrow to comment on Harkin.
This s what Americans largely misunderstand. These groups were formed to agitate against American policies which were seen as unjust as of 10 years ago, more in some cases. What America has to do is take a fucking god damn hard look at itself, We as a public body, only respond to what we perceive as a threat. We don't do SHIT when we, ourselves, are directly threatening others. That is our problem. We've so abused our priveledge as the strongest nation on the planet, that no one takes our word seriously. We just CAN'T undo it. It will take years of pro-acitve, balanced action on our part. And the lazy-ass, stupid-ass American public just won't stand for that. There is no way out, other than to entirely re-configure our whole foreign policy strategy. Allegations that the US is fucking the whole world over are, in fact, NOT over-exaggerated.
Onceler
You nailed it. But that's the lesson the US didn't learn after 9/11. Pity. It was a great opportunity lost. Oh, I like your Seussian handle.
The people of color ads are more ad the Bush campaign has officially denied any connection with
they are being paid for by J Patrick Rooney a white man who is an insurance something and lives in Indiana your usual rightwinglooney guy
pretty nasty stuff I think the Reeps are going for voter suppression
nice that they believe in democracy so much that they are trying to suppress turn out. Nice goal
Doug Wilder former gov of Virginia and an occasional Democrat is back in the fold after this ad started running. This ad is going to turn out to be a big mistake.
The candidate with the largest amount of personal wealth is Cheney by the way and his porn writing wife.
Reminder from Winning Argument
Kerry's vote against the $87 billion is nothing to be ashamed of.
1. John Kerry was backing the troops 100%. John Kerry voted against the funding package because Bush didn't provide a way to pay for it. His concerns have been proven well founded. This year the nation's deficit is expected be $455 billion. The bill Kerry preferred would have simply passed the funding but offset it by rolling back tax cuts for those making over $200,000 a year.
2. George W. Bush threatened to veto $87 billion in funding for operations in Iraq. If the money wasn't provided in exactly the way Bush requested, he threatened to veto the bill. In other words, Bush did the exact same thing that he is criticizing Kerry for doing. Bush argued for a particular set of requirements for how the money would be appropriated and was willing to oppose the funding package if he didn't get his way.
Why they're wrong:
Kerry's vote was not a flip-flop. Voting for a spending proposal when it is responsibly funded and against it when it isn't responsibly funded does not show indecision. It shows a basic understanding about public policy. The two votes (one that included a tax rollback for the rich and one that didn't) were very different. There is nothing contradictory or weak about changing your vote based on how things are funded.
...harkin's got balls...I wouldn't diss the devil's brother like that...
...harkin's got balls...I wouldn't diss the devil's brother like that...
focus | Email | Homepage | 08.14.04 - 11:38 pm | #
Dude, I think Harkin just called the Vice President a pussy!
Aye. Still, I prefer dealing with harsh cold weather than harsh hot weather. You can always add more layers, but there's a real limit to how many layers you can remove!
NTodd, I'm with you on that.
I've spent most of my life in Texas. I have no use whatsoever for heat. Hate it. Tired of it. Heck, 75 is too warm for me.
I'm the kind of person who will go out on a 29 degree day without a coat. Or I did, when I lived in South Dakota. As long as there's no wind and plenty of sunshine, that's awesome weather to me.
...he hath powers to assume a pleasing form...
SENSitive,comes from the word sense...to sense is to know by ALL YOUR SENSES.and not being sensitive is a stupid impotent approach to anything...and why are all the classified top secret reports ,always deemed "highly sensitive
material".....stupid veeps with stupid trolls,lol
I used to think how bad can cold be after a few hot (for me) Summers in California.
Then I spent a week in Iowa in January.
The "medical security accounts" the Gingrich era Rethugs were pushing as health care reform were a pay-off to this Rooney, IIRC, so he's been a big GOoPer player for a while.
Interesting to see he's doing Rove's dirty work in this particular way.
>Interesting to see he's doing Rove's dirty work in this particular way.
Sounds like a lot of Rove has been throwing a lot of other people's money down a rathole to me.
Arrgh
Sounds like Rove has been throwing a lot of other people's money down a rathole.
These ads are so lame, even for Republicans.
Nancy R,
It works either way.
The statement made on Monday by John Kerry (news - web sites) is the climactic event in this matter. Senator Kerry said that notwithstanding all that is known now, whatever have been the developments in the past year, if he had it to do again, he'd vote as he did: in favor of giving the president the power he requested, before going on to wage war in Iraq. It is an honorable thing for John Kerry to do, to associate himself so fully with the whole Iraq enterprise. Mr. Bush can take satisfaction from that endorsement, and critics of the war will have to exert themselves in other ways than merely to support the election of John Kerry.
Yeah, they are right....
nobody reads Buckley to the end.
Angels 6 Tigers 6 -5th
Anonymous,
We've already covered this.
Yawn.
I just saw the League of Extraordinary Gentleman.
Wow. What a noisy movie.
There is the question of the 1 billion dollars the Bush administration cannot account for in Iraq. 1 billion dollars and they just cannot find it.
Wow. What a noisy movie.
Nancy Richardson | Email | Homepage | 08.14.04 - 11:56 pm | #
I think you meant to say "What a lousy movie". Cause it was. Lousy. And such a wonderful comic, too.
Well, I meant it was loud...and noisy.
But, not as bad as I had been lead to believe.
OT,
Questions for the Bush/Cheney campaign:
Mr. Cheney, you've made statements implying that there is a connection between Moqtada al-Sadr and 9-11. This is clearly not the case. Why do you continue to promote this and other false impressions?
Mr. Bush, what does your administration plan to do to remedy the fiasco you created in Iraq? And why should any American citizen trust those who broke it, and made us buy it -- to fix the situation?
Mr. Cheney, how do you respond to the recent comment by Chris Matthews that as Sec. of Defense during Desert Storm, you are responsible for 10,000 American Troops being left in Saudi Arabia for all the years since that war ended. It is the presence of those American Troops that has enraged the Terrorist Factors, so badly, that Chris blames their presence for the attacks on Sept 11, and the deaths of 3,000 of us.
Mr. Bush, it has been observed by several commentators that terror alert levels tend to rise when your poll numbers slump. How long do you intend to continue to play politics with the 9-11 tragedy?
It could not be more obvious that you have repeatedly been treated lightly by the mainstream press corps. Does your administration intimidate and manipulate journalists?
Mr. Bush, you could have gotten to the bottom of the Plame affair at any time. Why haven't you?
Mr. Bush, Why have you dragged your feet every step of the way regarding the 9-11 commission, from creation to conclusions. Why?
Why do you so often change important federal regulations stealthily and unilaterally?
OT: I just saw the entire Russert segment with Krugman and O'Reilly. What a scream! Russert looked afraid there would be a fistfight. O'Reilly became more and more agitated until he just about exploded. I see him dying in a mental hospital a broken alcoholic, like McCarthy.
I am at the bottom of the thread, has anyone seen the news on the 70,000 troops being brought home from Europe and elsewhere? And about 100,000 dependents? Where are we going to put 170,000 people all of a sudden?
These ads are so lame, even for Republicans.
They sound lame, but any word on whether they're having any affect?
EkCenTrik,
Do you mean this?
Good question, EkCenTrik. Here's another:
Are they putting together the nucleus of an army to invade Iran?
CS
Yep, I have heard about this, but I thought the timing was um ... interesting.
Considering the number of people, I also wonder what that will do to the various economies around the installations involved. Being in San Antonio, we have seen the effects of the closure of Kelly.
Wile E Odysseus,
Douglas Feith, the under secretary of defense for policy, has briefed German officials. "Everything is going to move everywhere," Mr. Feith said a year ago, as the administration was developing the details of the plan. "There is not going to be a place in the world where it's going to be the same as it used to be."
Why can't the Kerry campaign ask tough questions and why can't it answer easy ones satisfacotrily?
Tom Harkin almost ready to join the list- Jon Stewart,Air America radio, Michael Moore, Bill Maher, Barack Obama,Robert Wexler- our effective, don't back down advocates.
I'm sure the troops are being deployed to be used for some other war plan that is brewing. Could this act help Bush in the elections?
Wile,
Good point. This is beginning to remind me of a bad taxi ride I had one day. One the express way, no way to say let me out.
Well,
This will pretty much scrap our NATO participation, will probably screw any intel gathering operations, of course possibly open the deck up to bold moves from the "new friendlies", punish a variety of economies for bad words against us, look really good, in a meaningless way to some of the fence sitters, prep us for a new arm to a war that we actually are not fighting (war on terrah) versus Iraq, now Iran rolling in and serves as a deflection from all the other issues this administration is mucking around and avoiding.
My soul won't let me get depressed about it, but I do feel a bit tired.
This is beginning to remind me of a bad taxi ride I had one day. One the express way, no way to say let me out.
Beat Bush in November, and hope he doesn't get us into something before he leaves office, as his father did in Somalia. That's the only way I can think of to stop this bad ride we've been on for 3.5 years.
And make sure it doesn't go on for 4.5 more.
EkCenTrik, no wonder you feel tired, that's a miserable list of things to go wrong next. Sheesh.
Trying to catch up with this thread, I googled Hugh Hewitt since I had never heard of him before. I found his website, which featured an "email of the day" from one of his disgruntled fans who had trouble trying to buy Hugh's book. It reads as follows:
"Here's a report from my recent scouting trip to the local Border's bookstore. Context is important here, as I live in the heart of Reagan country, Simi Valley. Upon arrival, I was first assaulted by the number of My Life copies prominently displayed at the front entrance book table, flanked by a few of Tommy Frank's new tome and a Pulitzer prize winning novel. Clinton's books numbered 130, I was told. What in the world are they thinking, this is Simi Valley for Pete's sake!
When I inquired about If it's Not Close They Can't Cheat, the clerk gladly looked it up in the computer and "found" one copy in the store. After shuffling to a shelf in the back of the store leading to the restrooms (apparently, this is where they place all the "right wing conspiracy" books), he scoured the shelf unsuccessfully and surmised that it must have been picked up by someone getting ready to purchase it and offered to order it for me. A call to the store the next day revealed the same scenario (only this time I didn't have to avert my eyes while men proceeded in and out of the restroom while I waited for the clerk to "locate" it). Though not overly surprised, I was disgusted none the less. Two failed games of "Where's Hugh" at Border's has me off to Amazon once again. "
Still ROTFL,
Echidne,
Well can anyone say that is just paranoid thinking?
That would help.
Where are we going to put 170,000 people all of a sudden?
EkCenTrik | Email
=================
Iraq?
Just coming in for the evening, which means this thread is now officially over! Evening, all.
Mr. Cheney - your proctologist called. They found your head.
Noam Sane
No no no it is just a horribly inflamed prostrate. Same difference though, functions about the same.
I'm sorry, EkCenTrik. You are most likely not paranoid. Though of course you might be, who knows, but this stuff is real even for us paranoids. At the least it's going to cause more headaches in the department of international relations; at the most we are being herded towards the next war on the boys' list. My guess is that we'll get the war if Bush gets in again, but that they are not firm in the planning yet.
In the one news account I read of this troop move online, I didn't see whether we were pulling any troops out of Okinawa. That would actually improve our relations with Japan, if we left our bases there. It might also hurt the local economy, of course, but I doubt the Okinawans would be too unhappy.
That is, if our troops left (which is to say, departed) our bases on Okinawa.
Sheesh. It's too late for caffeine. Maybe I need alcohol.
Yeah, Wile, the prospect of four more years of Bush is terrifying, whereas four years of Kerry will merely be disappointing.
From Yahoo re Najaf:
"We were sitting here waiting for authorization to go clear the militia. We never got that authorization," said Marine Maj. David Holahan. "We'll continue operations as the prime minister ... sees fit."
The prime minister of Iraq in charge of American troops...I'm sure the Republican faithful are hunky-dory with this.
Here's one from another blog; apologies if people have seen it already. It is also similar to what atrios said a couple days ago, but if we are gonna beat these bastards come Nov. the campaign has to stop pussyfooting. Here it is:
Dear Kerry '04 Campaign Staff,
I don't know what's going on in your heads, but you guys need to seriously get your shit together.
You are trying to get a man elected to the most powerful office in the world. You are running against liars and thieves who have a coordinated smear apparatus with branches throughout the national media. You have the example of the 2000 campaign, and indeed the entire Clinton presidency, to learn how this apparatus operates.
You know this. So why in God's name am I seeing interview clips that involve your spokespeople beginning sentences by stuttering, looking nonplussed, and saying things like "I believe" and "That's not entirely correct"?
I don't know, maybe you're hiring your favorite nieces or the neighbor children to be your spokespeople, but whatever it is, it ain't gonna cut it my friends. Anyone who goes in front of a camera with the imprimatur of the campaign and is blindsided by quotes, allegations, or outright lies that I have already heard needs to be fired immediately. There's a lot of dirt gonna be thrown your way in the next few months, and the time to pattycake with this bullshit is over.
Your fundraising efforts have been extremely effective and have won you accolades from various sources. Congratulations. Now tell me why the fuck you aren't paying some college kid $300 a week to do fulltime what I do for an hour or two a day? You have the unique opportunity of seeing the other side's talking points at least a day or two before they go into effect nationwide. How? Read their freakin' blogs. Hell, you'd be infinitely more prepared for this crap if you just read the goddamn InstaPundit, whose mission in life appears to be to collect as much bullshit as possible from as many questionable sources as possible and spray it hither and yon into the media winds. I believe in a Just God, and as such I know that Reynolds and his family will be punished unto the fourth generation, but for now, you can use his sin to do good. It's what Jesus would do, and you love Jesus, right?
Sure, most people who hear the various false charges, distortions, and lies about your candidate are skeptical, and realize that they are bogus. But the other side doesn't need most people. They need a small handful of undecideds to break their way in a few critical states. That's why every little smear, no matter how ridiculous, is potentially devastating.
There's only one way to deal with this: every lie, distortion, and false charge needs to be crushed, immediately and irrefutably, to the point where journalists will be mocked for repeating them.
You not only need to say that their bullshit is ridiculous, but you need to explain in detail why it is ridicu
Echidne
You might note that if I remember correctly, one reason Clinton didn't chase Bin Laden and the Taliban late in the game was due to not wanting to hand a war to an incoming president. They of course reciprocated by ignoring all the briefings and accused the Clinton personnel of sabotaging computer keyboards and I guess sticking toilet tissue rolls in the commodes and flushing. (I made that last part up). So I would not expect the current folks to be honorable and stay their hand for the new guy.
What a tool!
EkCenTrik,
I like the toilet paper stuffing idea!
Not that the Clinton's did that.
I've become quite paranoid in the last four years as it seems to be the sane thing to be nowadays, so yes, I expect that the idea might also be to mess up the situation really bad for the next president (unless it's Bush who is planning to go bang-bang on some other country), to make it really hard to run this country successfully, so that the masses once again vote the extreme right in. Paranoid? I would have thought so four years ago, but now I think this is probably a pretty good prediction of what Rove is planning to do.
Yeah, Wile, the prospect of four more years of Bush is terrifying, whereas four years of Kerry will merely be disappointing.
mike in pr,
I'm willing to wait until 2008 before I pronounce four years of Kerry as disappointing.
For that matter, I'd be much happier in 2012 saying that the previous eight years of Kerry was disappointing.
The alternative is saying that the second four years of W were terrifying, and the first four years of Jeb were indescribably bad.
Besides, I don't believe that President Kerry will disappoint me.
And your point is?
I agree with Phil except that I'm not sure about there being a just God.
From New Republic's Josh Benson, a different view:
Drawing derisive chuckles from the crowd, Vice President Dick Cheney Thursday blasted Sen. John Kerry for a remark the Democratic presidential candidate made last week about fighting a "more sensitive war on terror" if elected. "America has been in too many wars for any of our wishes, but not a one of them was won by being sensitive," Cheney said.
From Funk & Wagnalls Standard Desk Dictionary, Deluxe Edition (the only one on my desk):
sen·si·tive (sen'si-tiv)
adj.
2. Reacting readily to external agents or forces.
Nah, we wouldn't want that.
Apparently Alan Keyes now wants to repeal the 17th Amendment.
I'm almost afraid to know his opinion on the 13th and 14th.
Echidne,
If it's any consolation, my fears are the same as yours. I, too, fear that the Rethugs are out to cheney things up for President Kerry, and then, as soon as he's sworn in, they'll start in on the Clinton Scandals Redux, just to make it harder for him to clean up the mess they've made.
Then, as you say, they'll run Jeb or somebody else on the same agenda.
Well considering scales of economies, if 70,000 troops are redployed, would that negate a draft?
But on the other hand, if this move is to upgrade our security, how? Since the war on Terror when successful has actually used smaller forces or even teams, coupled with intelligence gathering, how will a force this large assist us? Their deployment into Europe was not over night, the costs involved have slowly been handled and brought into the budget ove many decades. Moving that many people into new theaters will incur an enormous cost. With the exception of maintaining stability in Iraq, which at this moment seems a long term need, the only other purpose would be to counter a larger threat meaning a real war with another large player, or of course an aggressor status with a move on another country as we did with Iraq. One way or another the costs will be enormous. Being that the personnel would likely be in a combat zone or nearby, the support for this many personnel will also soar. I cannot see the logic unless given to seeing a process as a cause and not one of due diligence and careful planning. As we know, this administration is not good on long term projection and planning.
Michael Scott,
Apparently Alan Keyes now wants to repeal the 17th Amendment.
This is a relatively recent wingnut meme. Anybody know why they're pushing it?
Echidne,
I agree with you. It's hard NOT to come to the conclusion that at least part of the grand design here is to just gum up as much of the works as is humanly possible in one term. With that in mind, the selection of w for the job makes perfect sense.
Apparently Alan Keyes now wants to repeal the 17th Amendment
Jaw-juh's favorite son, Zell Miller, has come out in favor of removing the rights of citizens to chose their elected represenatives, as well. Of course, ol' Zell wasn't exactly elected to his current job, so, there ya go.
Wile, yes that will happen unless and until we get the media to be more neutral. The media are the gateway between the people and the powers, and the gates must be kept open. We desperately need money to start all sorts of liberal stations and networks. There's no point in trying to be a guest on O'Reilly if that's your only chance to make a statement.
So in a way I'm equally if not more committed to changing the way the media is regulated and works than to changing the government, because without changes in the media the government will not be democratic.
With that in mind, the selection of w for the job makes perfect sense.
mena
Mission accomplished!
Now watch this drive!
In the German federal system, the upper house of parliament is not popularly elected, but instead is chosen in part by the federal states.
Of course the Bundesrat has very limited power, so a similar system wouldn't work in the U.S. Senate.
EkCenTrik,
Kerry's been talking about adding 40,000 troops to the army, partly to beef up training units Stateside. Maybe this redeployment is in part Bush's counter to that proposal. It may also be a way of putting off talk about a draft until after the election, when of course they're free to institute one if they win.
I agree with you that, if this admin were going to fight the War on Terra seriously, it would be using espionage and Special Forces, not conventional troops.
folks , help...
SCLM?
What the hell does that mean ?
Don't tell me it is Sucessfull Christian Living Ministries...please ....
Of course I am sitting here watching Godzilla versus MechaGodzilla on the SciFi channel and thinking ...geez we think we have problems? just look at what the Japanese have to put up with.
So Called Liberal Media.
SCLM= so called liberal media
Ash -
hee. the first question i asked on this blog was: "what is OT?"
And nobody gave me a hard time! That's why I love it here...
Yes, mena. w is probably selected to destroy the U.S. government. Which means anarchy. I find it interesting that the wingnuts are anarchists...
Joking aside, Iran is probably also on the administration's wishlist. Like having a second democracy in the Middle East, you know.... I had this theory that Bush goes to war in alphabetical order, and maybe he does but just got dyslexic or something over Iraq and Iran.
SCLM?
What the hell does that mean ?
Why, let's all sing it together! Super Cali Lagilistic Mexbe... oh, never mind.
So
Called
Liberal
Media.
Echidne,
Agreed. I'd like to see the Fairness Doctrine back. Of course, if President Kerry moved to reinstitute it, I think Faux and Rush, to name two of the bigger wingnut media powers, would bring suit on First Amendment grounds and put $$$ behind it.
I'd love to see more liberal radio and television networks, too. I think also liberals and lefties need to master the wingnut trick of going apeshit with letters, emails, and phone calls when some news organization has a story we don't like.
I'd also love to see public broadcasting go back at least to being neutral on politics, instead of beating up Dems and giving Rethugs a free pass.
SCLM-So Called Liberal Media. Similar to compassionate conservatism, it does not exist.
This is a relatively recent wingnut meme. Anybody know why they're pushing it?
Wile--
Apparently they think it will get them out of paying income tax. There's actually a pretty good, if older, thread on it over at Free Republic.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focu...ws/756324/
posts
Well, there's good money in the security biz, I guess.
I love the idea that w has a little "alphabetical" list that starts with Iraq. What's less fun to think about is the fact that they are running out of time. I really want this to be over.
Of course I am sitting here watching Godzilla versus MechaGodzilla on the SciFi channel and thinking ...geez we think we have problems? just look at what the Japanese have to put up with.
When you put it that way, EkCenTrik, I can't disagree. Fighting Bu$hco and the wingnuts and the SCLM is not as tough as having two monsters duking it out on our territory.
Wile:
I think also liberals and lefties need to master the wingnut trick of going apeshit with letters, emails, and phone calls when some news organization has a story we don't like.
Yep. This really works, too. I do it in some of my activity, and if enough people write or call it has an effect. They multiply the numbers by ten or something, to gauge how many might feel the same way. But I also want to have a television that I can watch without having to try to trap Canadian television, and a couple of big liberal newspapers would be nice, too. I don't count NYT.
Backslider,
I knew I'd heard this idea about repealing the 17th Amendment somewhere before, but I'd forgotten it was Zellout.
Did he give any reason for wanting to do away with direct election of senators?
Wile
At least it would have moral clarity...
I don't think anyone would argue about "doing something about the threat" after their house was levelled by a semi sized foot. Well Rush and O'Reilly might...
I can hear, "Ah comon, comon, they are just having a bit of fun. You tree huggers types are happy as a lark until the wild life start stomping your home. Then its, lets do something about it. Then it is tax and spend and we end up where?"
"save the baby godzillas"!
Of course, if President Kerry moved to reinstitute it, I think Faux and Rush, to name two of the bigger wingnut media powers, would bring suit on First Amendment grounds and put $$$ behind it.
That's a nonstarter, as far as I know. If anyone's speech is being infringed upon under the current system, it's the Left's. The airwaves are supposed to be public, so the FD is pretty basic.
The whole debate is a perfect example of a situation where free-market notions are untenable. You can't let the "Invisible Hand" decide which ideas are "worthy" of being heard. If there's to be intellectual progress, the greatest possible number of people need access to the greatest possible number of ideas. (They also need an education...but that's a whole other problem.) Failing that, they at LEAST need equal access to the arguments of the country's majority political party!
My apologies, but sometimes seriousness simply has to be vanquished. It is a survival trait.
Pixie,
But it's the Sixteenth Amendment that makes the income tax constitutional. Are the freepers just getting it wrong, or is there some diabolical scheme behind getting rid of the direct election of senators that leads to the abolition of the income tax?
Read in my local paper that John Kerry spoke to a crowd in Oregon estimated at over 40,000 while the Flight Suit in Chief entertained 2000 handpicked supporters. I can’t see how the selected one will win, even with the whore media at his side. Bush and Rove are up to something, may be another Willie Horton special, but dang if I can figure out what? It seems that none of the Mud has really stuck.
Ogg
My pet theory has been that they are really controlling Bush and what he sees and hears. Since he has admitted to basically seeing the outside world only through his personnel, the picture can be pretty nice and he would never be the wiser. His ability to say all the garbage he does just cannot exist because he "can". At this point, considering all the B.S., even a cold hearted guy would be listening simply to figure out how to stay afloat.
Jenny and Pixie: Ahhhh! Thanks!
I googlised it and got the only result that looked right , as I mentioned before , Successful Christian Living Ministries....a fairly frightening bunch that make me thing they are a rural country retreat funded by falwell to inspire wealthy Amway types out to vibe with Christ and part with their money. so, as the Fundamentalist support structure for the neocon revolution , I would not have been surprised to see that they were the Blessed minds behind the Vast Right Wing Conspir. I would have been convinced that this is indeed the Era of Satan, but then I am about ready to think that anyway...
And thanks to Mike in PR, gotit!
Philalethes,
Wasn't the ostensible reason the Reagan admin did away with the Fairness Doctrine in the first place that it violated the First Amendment?
I hope you're right that a First Amendment challenge would be a non-starter, but I don't think that would stop them. I think the point would be to tie it up in the courts for as long as possible, while cranking up the Mighty Wurlitzer ("President Kerry wants to take away your free speech!"). If they actually got a favorable ruling out of the courts, especially the Republican Supreme Court, that would be gravy.
Philalethes,
PS: Agreed that market doctrine is misapplied here. One of the things that drives me crazy is the attempt over the past twenty or so years to apply a business model to any and every form of human endeavor, whether or not it's appropriate.
BTW, it was Reagan's head of the FCC, IIRC, who justified the deregulation of broadcasting by dubbing television "a toaster with pictures."
Wile--
I looked over a few other entries over at FR, and there does seem to be a bit of disinformation going on. On one thread it will lower taxes, on another it will revolutionalize campaign spending reform. Perhaps it also freshens breath.
The concept seems to have its roots in 9/11, and may very well be a brainchild of the same group that brought us the Patriot Act. For whatever reason (probably simple logistics) it never took off.
Has the Bush administration devised a plan to replace the Senate in case of massive deaths - for instance, an Al Queda attack?
Where's my tinfoil?
Re the 17th amendment:
Until 1914 or so, Senators were chosen by state legistlatures, not by popular vote.
Keyes says that this allowed for the states to more directly control their interests within the federal system -- I guess the Senator was supposed to vote the state's rather than the national interest or his conscience.
The chutzpah of going to a new state where you have no ties, being appointed by a few people on a central committee, and then telling the electorate that you'd prefer they nor have a direct say in the issue -- man, that's special.
BTW - Minor factoid, but related in part to the previous selection of senators - if Kerry becomes president, he will only be the 3rd Senator to ascend directly to the presidency (only Harding and Kennedy have done that).
as an interesting aside :
Larry King has Heather Mills McArtney on to talk about her work in desposing of landmines around the world , which is by itself laudable , but then she had along a guest , a 8 year old Iraqi girl whose house was leveled by american Cluster Bombs
She lost 17 family members and her leg . HMM got her fitted with a new one. She was a luminous child , but more than her inspiring energy and infectuous joy was her words
"Yes , we knew about Saddam , and we knew he was not a good man , but it was ok to play in the road and go to school , my home was safer before you came ...I just wish the United States Soldiers didn't come ...Mister Bush , if he bombs us , has to help all the children in Iraq learn to walk again , like i did "
I was knocked out , and Larry King!!??!!I couldn't believe Mr. Middle of the Road would do it , and he didn't rush her along at all .
It was great , and I think she should be on a button , and a little list of questions based on her story for the Chimp, just for his responses ...nah, that would only work if he were responsible for anything ...
The chutzpah of going to a new state where you have no ties, being appointed by a few people on a central committee, and then telling the electorate that you'd prefer they nor have a direct say in the issue -- man, that's special.
This just in: Alan Keyes is as crazy as a shithouse rat, film at eleven.
Re: 17th Amendment??
could this be an attempt at "redistricting" the senate seats? You know, like that little thing they did in Texas?
dunno.
pixie,
There was some talk about how to replace members of Congress in the event of a terr'ist attack, now that you mention it. I don't remember anything coming of it, however.
The Bill of Rights can be found online here. If we stick to the logic of the putative reason for repealing the Seventeenth Amendment, namely, replacing the Senate in the event of attack, it must lie in the words of the Amendment:
When vacancies happen in the representation of any State in the Senate, the executive authority of such State shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies: Provided, That the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct.
They must not want the governors or legislatures to pick any replacements, for some reason.
As for tinfoil hat time, I confess myself puzzled. I'm not sure what Bu$hco could be up to in proposing an idea like this.
And it sounds to me that the freepers have no idea what they're talking about.
[Gomer Pyle voice]
Surprise, surprise.
[/Gomer Pyle voice]
Keyes says that this allowed for the states to more directly control their interests within the federal system -- I guess the Senator was supposed to vote the state's rather than the national interest or his conscience.
sean flynn, Alan Keyes is full of it. In the bad old days before the 17th Amendment, the special interests were able to buy senate seats through wholesale bribery of legislatures. For example, Nelson Aldrich of Rhode Island was known as the Senator from Standard Oil.
I dunno, maybe having assailed the Great Society and the New Deal, they want to take on the Progressive Era.
Jesus, they want to revert to Mr. Smith Goes to Washington? Fucking cabal of Mr. Potters!
OT...maybe i'm just a sucker for sappy tv, but i got a little choked up during the opening ceremonies when the people of athens went nuts cheering for the american athletes, and bob costas made a point of mentioning "the greeks have always been able to distinguish between americans and their government..." based on our foreign policy of the past half century or so they've got as much reason to hate us as anyone...so yeah, that was good. [and yes, i do actually go outdoors sometimes. i had a nice picnic by seattle center fountain today for instance.]
k&y,
Same actor (Edward Arnold), but, IIRC, he was called Jim Taylor in Mr Smith Goes to Washington.
(Sorry, in my more idealistic moments, I'm a big Frank Capra fan.)
Not same actor. Not.
Lionel Barrymore was Mr. Potter.
Edward Arnold was Jim Taylor.
Wile E. Odysseus was cheneying wrong.
They must not want the governors or legislatures to pick any replacements, for some reason.
I do believe you are correct:
H.R.2844
Title: To require States to hold special elections to fill vacancies in the House of Representatives not later than 45 days after the vacancy is announced by the Speaker of the House of Representatives in extraordinary circumstances.
Sponsor: Rep Sensenbrenner, F. James, Jr. [WI-5]
http://www.congress.gov/cgi-bin/...?d108:H.R.2844:
Fascinating stuff, but I need to get some sleep. Night, all.
I have a rookie question, I think.
What's the origin of the "brown shirt" designation. And, in what situations would it generally be used?
Sounds bad...shudder.
pol 08.14.04 - 6:01 pm
The NY Times has the article up at. Out of Spotlight, Bush Overhauls U.S. Regulations
By JOEL BRINKLEY
ASHINGTON, Aug. 13 - April 21 was an unusually violent day in Iraq; 68 people died in a car bombing in Basra, among them 23 children. As the news went from bad to worse, President Bush took a tough line, vowing to a group of journalists, "We're not going to cut and run while I'm in the Oval Office."
On the same day, deep within the turgid pages of the Federal Register, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration published a regulation that would forbid the public release of some data relating to unsafe motor vehicles, saying that publicizing the information would cause "substantial competitive harm" to manufacturers.
As soon as the rule was published, consumer groups yelped in complaint, while the government responded that it was trying to balance the interests of consumers with the competitive needs of business. But hardly anyone else noticed, and that was hardly an isolated case.... snip....
I had fun scrolling thru all the posters names/
What a riot!
Little references here and there to all facets of pop and not so pop culture.
The SA, The nazi party's original groups of thugs, wore brownshirts.
They were purged in Jan?1934 in the Night of the Long Knives. Most of its top leadership were gay.
What's the origin of the "brown shirt" designation. And, in what situations would it generally be used?
Hitler's thugs, the S.A., were known as "brownshirts."
Klansmen and members of FreeRepublic.com and Lucianne.com are generally referred to as "brownshirts." Because they are "good Germans."
Ah, Jun, not Jan.
weblackey,
The Nazi Sturmabteilung, aka "stormtroopers," would wear brown shirts as part of its uniform. Hitler formed them in imitation of Mussolini's Fasci di Combattimenti, who wore black shirts.
One of the things that drives me crazy is the attempt over the past twenty or so years to apply a business model to any and every form of human endeavor, whether or not it's appropriate.
Don't be talkin'! This is a windmill I've been tilting at literally every day for years, particularly in my work as a writer/editor. Plus, my wife's in special ed, so between the two of us we're ALWAYS complaining about the notion that even the most complex and mysterious human interactions can be reduced to mere commerce.
It started out being a form of vulgarity; now, it's turned into a form of evil. And in the world of ideas, it's just disastrous (as we can all see by looking around us).
But at least if we've been driven crazy, we're in good company! The backlash against this bullshit is on its way, make no mistake....
Woah, that is bad. It sounded fascist in origin, and clearly it is. Whew. Okay. Now I'm genuinely cold.
Thank you everyone that posted, I'll scan some history on it.
Atrios, is there a new thread, or is blogspot down again?
Just wondering, and wandering.
(Sorry, in my more idealistic moments, I'm a big Frank Capra fan.)
Wile E. Odysseus
Me too! Where people got the idea that his films are optimistic is beyond me! (Or for that matter, where people got the idea that optimism = stupidity...but that's a subject for another rant.) He's optimistic the way Euripides' Deus Ex Machina was optimistic...
If you've never seen "Dirigible," watch it at all costs! You can usually pick up a bootleg on eBay for about ten bucks...
Wasn't the ostensible reason the Reagan admin did away with the Fairness Doctrine in the first place that it violated the First Amendment?
My memory is that it was a "free market" issue...but if you remember it differently then I'll have to doublecheck that.
Either way, I'm sure we can agree that he was full of shit.
God, I hope you're right, Philalethes.
I especially hate seeing this "business model" crap being applied to education. Describing students (and their parents) as customers and an education as product really gets under my skin. For one thing, it unfairly puts the onus on teachers. If I buy an defective stereo, for example, the seller bears some responsibility to repair or replace it. If I "buy" a defective education, it may partly be the teacher's fault, but it might just be that I was a slacker, like Dear Leader at Yale and Harvard Business School, and didn't put in the effort to learn what I needed to. Yet, most of the people I run into who espouse a business model of education seem to feel it's all the teacher's fault, period.
(Obviously, this analogy doesn't apply to special ed.)
"On the same day, deep within the turgid pages of the Federal Register, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration published a regulation that would forbid the public release of some data relating to unsafe motor vehicles, saying that publicizing the information would cause "substantial competitive harm" to manufacturers."
Now lets hear the Naderites say there's no difference between Kerry and Bush. Nader made his damn reputation with an unsafe motor vehicle.
The policy of the United States Federal Communications Commission that became known as the "Fairness Doctrine" is an attempt to ensure that all coverage of controversial issues by a broadcast station be balanced and fair. The FCC took the view, in 1949, that station licensees were "public trustees," and as such had an obligation to afford reasonable opportunity for discussion of contrasting points of view on controversial issues of public importance. The Commission later held that stations were also obligated to actively seek out issues of importance to their community and air programming that addressed those issues. With the deregulation sweep of the Reagan Administration during the 1980s, the Commission dissolved the fairness doctrine.
* * *
...In a 1987 case, Meredith Corp. v. FCC, the courts declared that the doctrine was not mandated by Congress and the FCC did not have to continue to enforce it. The FCC dissolved the doctrine in August of that year.
However, before the Commission's action, in the spring of 1987, both houses of Congress voted to put the fairness doctrine into law--a statutory fairness doctrine which the FCC would have to enforce, like it or not. But President Reagan, in keeping with his deregulatory efforts and his long-standing favor of keeping government out of the affairs of business, vetoed the legislation. There were insufficient votes to override the veto. Congressional efforts to make the doctrine into law surfaced again during the Bush administration. As before, the legislation was vetoed, this time by Bush.
* * *
http://tinyurl.com/2szkx
Philalethes,
Most people know him from "It's a Wonderful Life, and nothing else.
I'm not big of pre-WWII films, but anyone can check out his filmography.
My memory is that it was a "free market" issue...but if you remember it differently then I'll have to doublecheck that.
Either way, I'm sure we can agree that he was full of shit.
You might be right. I thought they were at least citing the 1st Amendment, but maybe you're right. Certainly the Reagan admin treated everything as a market issue, so I wouldn't be surprised.
No arguments on him being full of shit. If they hadn't deep-sixed the FD, we wouldn't have had to listen to Rush all these years.
I'll look for "Dirigible." I don't know Capra's early stuff ("The Bitter Tea of Gen. Chen," and so forth) as well as I do the more famous films between "It Happened One Night" and "State of the Union."
Most people know him from "It's a Wonderful Life, and nothing else.
Which is an absolutely despairing film, in my view. Because just as in Euripides, everything is absolutely insoluble, and it's only the use of a miracle that resolves the problems...a miracle that would not happen to a "real" George Bailey. The happy endings in his movies are almost always forced and almost always involve miracles. But the despair in them goes a lot deeper. Dirigible and Bitter Tea of General Yen both end very unhappily, and are both hallucinatory and nightmarish.
Personally, I'm crazy about pre-WWII films...or some of 'em. Silents too. For my money, movies started to suck circa 1956...or at least, the good ones started becoming harder and harder to pull out of the garbage heap. Just one man's opinion, though...
Thanks, S in Mich.
Philalethes was right that it was a market issue, and I was wrong. Hats off to Philalethes!
So what would happen if President Kerry, or President Kerry's head of the FCC, reinstated the Fairness Doctrine? Any ideas?
I should rephrase that. AMERICAN films started to get very dicey after...oh, we'll say 1959.
At that point, people like Bresson and Resnais and Rivette and Olmi and Antonioni more than took up the slack, though. Or so say I, anyway.
DID YOU CALL MY WIFE A BITCH?
My last post for tonight:
Free markets only work when certain conditions are fulfilled. When they're not, things can go haywire quite badly. The conditions are unlikely to be met in medicine, in education or in arts, and I suspect that public debate shares the problems that arts have.
In all these markets something major that competitive markets requires is not functioning well. The most common problem is with information about who does what and about the quality of the product, and when this information is lacking markets can and often will produce suboptimal outcomes.
As an example, education is hard because we are not selling a product that can be just looked at and sold at so many dollars per pound. The effect of education becomes embodied in the receiver and changes her or him in all sorts of ways. How good the outcome is also depends on both the teacher and the student, so that if the outcome is bad it's almost impossible to know whom to blame. On a deeper level the value of education to the student is not the same after the education than before, because the student has now changed as a person. Yet she or he must decide on the value beforehand if there is to be market price that will be charged (to know if the value is greater than the price).
In any case, what the wingnuts call a free market isn't one based on economic theory. A market which Rupert Murdoch dominates is an oligopoly or even a near-monopoly, and no way would any economist call it free.
So what would happen if President Kerry, or President Kerry's head of the FCC, reinstated the Fairness Doctrine? Any ideas?
Wile E. Odysseus
Well, this is one more reason why Dems MUST control Congress, 'cause they won't get it through otherwise.
But I think you're right that there'll be an absolute firestorm of outrage from the Right, and we can be sure the media will stand 100 percent behind it and report every allegation in loving detail. I think there'll be lots of money kicking around to cause trouble for Kerry on every conceivable level, and if possible to grind his presidency to a halt ala Clinton.
Oddly, despite my bitching about the free market, it might just happen that the overall public shift towards liberalism--as shown by the success of AAR and F9/11 and all these Bush-bashing bestsellers--could actually resolve the problem in our favor somewhat, WITHOUT the FD being reinstated. And if I were Kerry, I might want to operate that way...if the Left keeps building an infrastructure, it might possibly be able to turn the lack of an FD back on the Right. That'd probably be wise, actually...work through the first term to build a bigger, more powerful infrastructure and gain consensus in the public and Congress, and then go after the FD in a second term.
But I'm exhausted and rambling...I might not be making any sense at all...
AMERICAN films started to get very dicey after...oh, we'll say 1959
Phila - I guess it was around the time we were assaulted with the Beach Blanket Bingo and Gidget movies? But then we had a "renaissance" of sorts with the resurgence with some great films, "Five Easy Pieces", "Carnal Knowledge", "The Last Detail", "Blow Out", "Dressed to Kill", "Midnight Cowboy" etc, etc. That actually was a great time for film. Running concurrently with the European product - "Tom Jones", "Last Tango".
Then it went back to junk, for the most part, in this country, with of course some exceptions...
Or maybe the european films of that time like "Grand Prix" or "A Man and a Woman" would be laughable today. Perhaps even "Last Tango" would not hold up. Though I dearly still love "The Night Porter" with Dirk Bogarde & Charlotte Rampling to this day.
Hmmm. Oh, and there's always "The Conversation" and "Z". Brilliant. I miss the great films!
A market which Rupert Murdoch dominates is an oligopoly or even a near-monopoly, and no way would any economist call it free.
Sure. What they've done, rather cleverly, is to talk as though deregulation and free trade synonymous. But deregulation can as easily (if not more easily) be the crucial step towards monopoly as competition. The privatization of water's a perfect example; the public loses any control over this essential resource, and the highest bidder (which tends to be the company that bankrolled the privatization effort) ends up with a complete monopoly for...jeez, I think so far they've been for about ten years minimum. Nothing "free" about that...
"brown shirt" is a Nazi/fascism reference
I agree with Philalethes on pre-WWII films. I have cable not so much for CSPAN or CNN or (shudder!) Faux, as for Turner Classic Movies, Fox Movies, and American Movie Classics.
One of the things that stands out for me when I watch It's a Wonderful Life every Christmas is just how dark the dark side of George Bailey is. Neither Frank Capra nor Jimmy Stewart are usually known for portraying the dark side of human existence, but they collaborate to do so very well in this movie.
Like the comparison with Euripides!
Talking about everything being analysed by a business model...I'm tired of everyone loving economists and hating intellectuals and NOT REalizing that economists are intellectuals
Personally, I'm crazy about pre-WWII films,
You probably(or hopefully) have a few years on me; but, what do you find appealing about the old black-and-whites? I find that the motion pictures of that era draw, almost exclusively on stereotypes of women, men, and race. I am not a film major. Also, if you've seen half of his movies you are much more informed than I.
In addition to the cessation of applying the corporate model to everything (Philalethes just gave a great example - you're free to pay exhorbitant rates for water, or you're free to do without), can we PLEASE throw "supply side" economics on trash heap? Twice in the last 25 years, it has proven to be a disaster. We still haven't paid off the debt from the first time it was tried.
Phila - I guess it was around the time we were assaulted with the Beach Blanket Bingo and Gidget movies? But then we had a "renaissance" of sorts with the resurgence with some great films, "Five Easy Pieces", "Carnal Knowledge", "The Last Detail", "Blow Out", "Dressed to Kill", "Midnight Cowboy" etc, etc. That actually was a great time for film.
Yeah, I think the teen film phenomenon really picked up around then. I guess every person would have a different list of favorites from the sixties/seventies. I like "Midnight Cowboy" a lot...but my list would be something like "Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia," "Two-Lane Blacktop," "Mikey and Nicky," "Welcome to Hard Times," "Three Women," "Killing of a Chinese Bookie"..."Eraserhead"...can't think of anything else at the moment, though with my luck I'll be up all night with titles popping into my head. At least there was good ol' Fassbinder over in Germany...
A lot of the foreign stuff has held up really well...Olmi's "Il Posto" is completely timely in its depiction of wage slavery. Godard's "Band of Outsiders" holds up really well too...maybe better than it did back then. And Bresson's films, for the most part, are just too austere to date much...most of 'em could've been made yesterday...
can we PLEASE throw "supply side" economics on trash heap?
You're just waging class warfare for the nanny state, you tax-and-spend liberal.
Hoo! If that's Echidne's last post for the night, she goes out with a bang!
I like the way you describe why education can't run as a business. Well done!
Good night, Echidne.
Jimmy Stewart are usually known for portraying the dark side of human existence, but they collaborate to do so very well in this movie.
Stewart actually has a HUGE body of really disturbing work. Check out "The Naked Spur" or some of the other films he made with Anthony Mann. Some truly brutal and terrifying performances in there.
can we PLEASE throw "supply side" economics on trash heap?
You're just waging class warfare for the nanny state, you tax-and-spend liberal.
Freeper | Email | Homepage | 08.15.04 - 3:33 am | #
I'll cut you a deal. If we can return to something approximating Bretton Woods, I promise not to try to seize the means of production, or to abolish private property, k?
Yeah, now I'll be up half the night too, with film titles popping into my head.
I forgot to mention all the Cassavetes films. All great (IMHO). Loved "Husbands", "Woman Under the Influence" - all of them. Yes, "Midnight Cowboy" an all time favorite of mine too. -
Also "McCabe & Mrs. Miller". Gorgeous film. Okay. I'll stop now.
Dear S in Mich:
You're a commie pinko Hanoi Jane Hollywood liberal in the nanny state of tax and spend affirmative action quotas under Big Government soft on defense appeaser bomb bomb bomb them all kill kill kill praise Jesus prrrrraise Jesus nuke nuke kill kill the Jews and Muslims commies lesbo ACLU homo beat my wife and the black man will rape my wife lock and load gun handgun shotgun kill kill.
kill the Jews and Muslims commies lesbo ACLU homo beat my wife and the black man will rape my wife lock and load gun handgun shotgun kill kill.
Hopefully this is a joke, but either way it's too disturbing and not funny, if you're going for funny...
And flag burning. You forgot flag burning.
Philalethes,
No, you're making a lot of sense on why the stealth method to reclaiming political discourse may be better than having the President or Congress reinstitute it. I agree with you that F 9/11 and all the anti-Bush books and AAR show that there is a place in this country for opinions not endorsed by Rush or O'Reilly or the freepers.
Philalethes
I second your recommendation of "Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia." That's one of the rare little gems of American cinema. Love the shower scene where Warren Oates finds Isella Vega crying and crawls in to comfort her.
Jenny had a pretty good list, too -- though I have to disagree with "Blow Out," which I found a bad auditory remake of Antonioni's "Blow-Up," which is one of my favorite films.
Flag burning flag burning commie hate America take Viagra small penis can't get it up small penis can't get it up rejected from the Coast Guard during Nam rejected from the Coast Guard during Nam subscribe to Guns N' Ammo insecure insecure insecure.
Toonscribe -
"Blow Out" is my guilty pleasure. It was an admittedly B-movie. But it just had something off-kilter about it that stood out. But I know what you're saying...
immy Stewart are usually known for portraying the dark side of human existence, but they collaborate to do so very well in this movie.
Stewart actually has a HUGE body of really disturbing work. Check out "The Naked Spur" or some of the other films he made with Anthony Mann. Some truly brutal and terrifying performances in there.
Or his work for Hitchcock, but more "Rear Window," "Vertigo," and "Rope," perhaps, than "The Man Who Knew Too Much."
I guess I was referring to Jimmy Stewart's "aw shucks" public image as much as to his movies.
Or his work for Hitchcock, but more "Rear Window," "Vertigo," and "Rope," perhaps, than "The Man Who Knew Too Much."
this is the jimmy stewart that I love. Though I did appreciate films like "Shop Around the Corner" with Margaret Sullivan and to some extent "Philadelphia Story". I think he won an academy award for that one.
for the life of me, I never got "It's a Wonderful Life". I'm probably the only person on the planet who could have done without that movie entirely... but then again, I liked "Blow Out"... hah.
what do you find appealing about the old black-and-whites? I find that the motion pictures of that era draw, almost exclusively on stereotypes of women, men, and race.
We're talking pre-WWII, right?
Couple things about that (and then, God help me, I MUST go to bed). First off, I'm interested in how people lived in various times. Which has led me to the conclusion that we don't change much over time. There are some "offensive" things in some old movies...but to me, they're not necessarily more offensive than what's happening now. Look at something like "Basic Instinct"--or five minutes of the average TV show--and I think the stereotypes today are as bad as they've ever been.
It reminds me of the animosity people have towards the fifties. They don't understand that the repression of that era was REACTION. This country made huge strides artistically during that time--in music, literature, and every other art--and there are few better examples of filmed social criticism than you find in that era. Largely because of the Hitler-fueled diaspora of European film-makers...but there were plenty of Americans like Sam Fuller who specifically attacked racism, among other social evils. And did it a hell of a lot better than most people working today. Both before and after the war, American films bristled with progressive and anti-fascist sentiment...which is one of the reasons HUAC targeted film-makers.
But pre-war...let's see. There's "My Man Godfrey," which is an absolutely great movie...one of the best comedies ever made, and definitely socially aware. There's King Vidor's "The Crowd." There's Capra's "You Can't Take It With You." There's W.C. Fields' "It's a Gift" and "Man on the Flying Trapeze." There's the amazing "Employee's Entrance," which is as just about harsh and harrowing an indictment of capitalism as one could wish to see. Lubitsch's "The Shop Around the Corner." I'm sure one could find SOMETHING in these movies to justify your prejudices...but what'd be the point? In every era, including our own, art is a mixture of good and bad of EVERY kind.
OK, over and out. Sure I could've made a better case, but I really am exhausted.
Jenny
Hope I didn't give any offense. I have my guilty pleasures, too.
Actually, I think movies today are probably better than we think they are. We're just inundated by all the hype for the big studio blockbusters and forget a lot of the smaller films that didn't have the 150 million dollar budgets. We forget just how many movies were made in a year in Hollywood back in the thirties.
Well, this is a good start..
From the AP:
"Edwards Defends Kerry From Cheney's Jabs"
FLINT, Mich. - A day after Vice President Dick Cheney criticized John Kerry Democratic Sen. John Edwards (news - web sites) defended his running mate on Friday, saying he spilled "his blood for the United States" and accusing the Republican of distorting Kerry's words.
Jenny from the Blog,
I do like Jimmy Stewart's pre-WWII stuff, including his appearance as a very disagreeable young man in the second "Thin Man" movie, and I do like his comic roles.such as in "Philadelphia Story" and "Shop Around the Corner."
As for your antipathy to "It's a Wonderful Life," wear it proudly.
I guess I was referring to Jimmy Stewart's "aw shucks" public image as much as to his movies.
He's really good at that, so he definitely earned that image. But he's also really good at psychosis and rage and sadism and mental breakdown. There's a scene in "The Naked Spur" where he's a bounty hunter, and is carrying Ralph Meeker's corpse...Janet Leigh's pleading with him to leave the corpse behind, and he snarls "I'm going to sell him! For money!" The look on his face is really terrifying. He's pretty nutty through the whole thing, actually.
'Night all!
Toonscribe -
No offense taken, of course! Yes, there are some wonderful small films still out there, like "High Art", etc.
I guess the older films we were discussing were more in the mainstream back then, and the films I like now are so small - tiny budgets, limited to art house releases, whereas films like "Midnight Cowboy" or "Carnal Knowledge" seemed to be more commercial (or maybe I'm just creating my own revisionist history!)
As for your antipathy to "It's a Wonderful Life," wear it proudly.
Wile - hee hee. Well, I think I will! Oh, and I agree with your assessment of Steward in the Thin Man -- sooo great...
'Night Phila -
thanks for throwing "You Can't Take It With You" into the mix too.
Jenny
The films you mention were more commercial back then -- but that's a function of the audience. We were a pretty riled up bunch in the late sixties and early seventies so we were ready for that kind of thing (I say we since I graduated from high school in '69). It seems, however, under marketing influences, the target audience has gotten younger and younger. Marketing tells us now that the most successful movies are rated PG-13. Back when I was in high school and college, we wouldn't even go see a movie that wasn't rated at least R -- and "Midnight Cowboy" was an X. By and large, audience drives the kind of movies that are made -- the thirties, forties, and fifties movies were mainly targeted at adults (the largest group that went to the movies). By the sixties, high schoolers and college kids dominated the audience. Now I think it's mainly high schoolers that dominate the audience.
Philalethes,
I would respectfully add "Grapes of Wrath" and "Of Mice and Men" and Fritz Lang's "Fury" (anti-lynching) and "Black Legion" (anti-Klan) to your list. I'm too tired to come up with other titles, but Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., has a couple of good pages on the movies of the Thirties, including the socially aware movies, in the first volume of his memoirs, which came out three or four years ago. (He lists movies both you and I missed.)
Other than that, I thought you put it very well, and i won't try to add to what you've already said.
Toonscribe -
I graduated in '69 as well. We have lived through the best of times, worst of times, no? Hey, since you're a compatriot, did you ever see a film called "Wild in the Streets" - the lead was, I think, Christopher Jones. A thoroughly ridiculous movie by any standard. I just remember it had something to do with the cool idea of putting LSD into the drinking supply in D.C. so that all the politicians would get all groovy and tripped out. I must say it was good fun at the time.
Toonscribe -
Curious. did you go to high school on the east coast?
Funny. I saw "Easy Rider" a few years ago again and thought it was a total piece of crap. (except for the Nicholson around the campfire scene - which is still brilliant). But back then I thought that movie was the second coming.
It just doesn't hold up.
Jenny from the Blog and Toonscribe,
A lot of the blame for the dumbing down of American movies, IMHO, should lie on mid-70s films like "Jaws" and "Star Wars." I like the latter especially, but the studios learned from them to prefer big blockbusters making big bucks, which means that they have to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
Also, I do think Toonscribe called it. Teenagers make up the most reliable movie audience, so that is for whom studios make movies now. Of course, this is self-reinforcing, because older folks start staying away from movie theaters.
Wile -
good point. The phenomenal commercial success of those films seemed to have created a new wave of blockbuster. of course, that little film that could, "Terminator" was also an eye-opener to the studio types. I belive that was financed and distributed by a real low budget factory -- can't think of it at the moment. They gave James Cameron his first break.
Jenny,
"Wild in the Streets."
Yes, and Hal Holbrook as the RFK-like senator all the over-30s are afraid of.
IIRC, the idea was to hook the older folks on LSD so they'll be tripped out all the time.
And the movie ends with 12-year olds looking at the 18-year olds and thinking they ought to overthrow them.
No, "Easy Rider" doesn't hold up that well, but it makes an interesting document of the Zeitgeist.
should lie on mid-70s films like "Jaws" and "Star Wars." Do a search for the top grossing films of every year from the 20's. What you see is the same formula, from the beginning.
Jenny
Yeah, "Easy Rider" doesn't hold up, but it was a really cheaply made movie and they were stoned most of the time making it.
"Wild in the Streets" is hilarious (but not because it's trying to be). It was even kinda silly when it came out.
I am a proud (?) graduate of Hendersonville High School in Hendersonville, Tennessee (a suburb of Nashville).
Wile -
Yes! Yes! Hal Holbrooke, I do remember now. You're the first person I've run across who remembers... too funny. Yeah, and the 12 year olds were chilling. Wonder whatever happened to that massive talent, chris jones (just kidding, but he was cute, you have to admit...)
Toonscribe -
Tennessee. I drove through there once, taking the southern route from maryland to colorado. Beautiful lush and green. the prettiest state.
Easy Rider -- they got a pass because we were all stoned when we saw it!
Is that the same Laura Bush who wrote the book;"From Frump To First Lady And Back Again"?
I actually saw "Wild in the Streets" on broadcast television really late one night (or early the next morning) about ten years ago. I also seem to remember a junior high teacher talking about it in class, for some reason.
The funny thing about Hal Holbrook's character in that movie is that the kids, who are supposed to be his devoted followers, turn on him and drug him, too, IIRC.
I guess Chris Jones must have been a one-hit wonder, if you want to call "Wild in the Streets" a hit. (The website IMDb is very good for tracking down actor's careers and so forth, but I'm too tired to use it just now.)
Wile
Funny you should mention "Jaws" and "Star Wars." I was going to put some of the blame on Lucas and Spielberg back earlier in the thread, but perhaps I was being unkind -- it really is the studio execs who responded to the bucks those films made (although I do think Spielberg is over-rated -- but part of this is personal. My brother had a script he had written under development with Spielberg's company -- and Sidney Pollack was going to produce -- but Spielberg insisted they bring in Bob Clark of "Porkey's" fame to rewrite the script -- after which, everybody hated it and the project was dropped. Spielberg's a good technician and knows how to manipulate his audience for the desired effect, but most of the time he doesn't really have much of anything to say. Of course, I may be wrong....
Just googled Christopher Jones. Here's the update (ha!)
"At the peak of "Wild In The Streets" phenomenal popularity, actor Chris Jones received more fan mail each week than Leonardo DiCaprio did during the height of the release of "Titanic". - The E! True Hollywood Story"
and this I didn't know...
"Christopher Jones would never have become an artist if for one remarkably lucky moment during the filming of "Wild In The Streets". Christopher Jones, later to be no stranger to near death experiences, perhaps unknowingly dodged a tragedy that was to eventually claim the life of Vic Morrow. Jones nearly has his hands severed by the rotor blade of a helicopter while standing on a raised platform with actor Hal Holbrooke (Johnny Fergus). After an emergency meeting with Fergus which results in agreement on lowering the voting age, Max Frost and Johnny Fergus are transported by helicopter to the scene of a massive city-stopping protest for the purpose of announcing the agreement and to encourage the protesters to disperse. The chopper was specifically designed for passengers to step down to the skid level, but Holbrooke and Jones must step onto a raised platform to be seen by the crowd. Chris raises and then outstretches his hands to give a victory wave to the crowd. When viewing the film you will notice how Jones raises his hands higher than Hal Holbrooke does. Holbrooke instantly pulls Chris' hands away from the now dangerously close spinning rotor blade."
I guess he became an artist, though what kind I don't know...
Toonscribe,
I understand why you don't care for Spielberg, and I don't blame you. I think Bob Clark did one outstanding film that I'm aware of, and that's "A Christmas Story." All those Porky's movies were the 80s equivalents of more current films like "American Pie," good if you like that sort of thing, but, if not, not. I think that you're right that Spielberg doesn't always have a lot to say, and that he tends to rely overmuch on manipulating the audience's emotions. So, yes, I would put some blame on Lucas and Spielberg, but I think there's plenty to go around.
Christopher Jones was also in "Ryan's Daughter" and "Night of the Iguana".
Jones was married to Susan Strasburg, Lee's daughter. Hmm. More trivia than is necessary, I guess.
Goodnight!
I love "Night of the Iguana" but I swear to God I don't remember Christopher Jones in it -- but it's probably been over ten years since I've seen it. I noticed it was on AMC or Turner Classics the other day, but I missed the beginning and didn't watch it.
Just wanna pop in again and say that old black/white films are often truly wonderful, and that there was a phase early on when these films showed powerful female figures. Throughout the twenties and into the thirties, and even some films of the forties (although in the forties many of the women were strong because they were depicted helping profoundly with the war effort) -- strong women abounded. And what's interesting is that in the twenties and very early thirties many films were much more "raunchy" than you would suspect possible, if you didn't know that organizations like the "Legion of Decency" sprang up to beat back the widespread mass film media emergence of brazen hussies. Look at some Jean Harlow films, for example. Or pay attention to the script for the very first version of "The Front Page." But there are many others, it's just I'm too tired...what's the name of the Garbo filmic version of a Eugene O'Neill play about the daughter of a sailor, who had become a prostitute after her father abandoned her and her mother? And how she tried to reconcile with her father after finding him again? Damn, is this sleepiness or old age? Aha! It's "Anna Christie"!! Right?
When women aren't being strong hussies, they're often just very, very strong individuals. Like Rosalind Russell in the SECOND version of "The Front Page" -- called "His Girl Friday" with Cary Grant. Or look at most any Katharine Hepburn role. Many Joan Crawford and Bette Davis roles. And early on, Marion Davies, geeze, what a powerhouse, I had no idea until I saw a recent documentary on how the Citizen Kane fictionalization of her role as Hearst's lover was truly unfair and something Orson Welles regretted as it wiped out her reputation as a talented, powerful woman.
Many of these films even explored the notion of a new liberated womanhood. "Pat & Mike", "Adam's Rib" are just two off the top of my head.
During the war look at a character like "Mrs. Miniver" who manages to capture a German pilot all by her lonesome! Eventually, after World War II, when all the guys came home, films reflected this new femininity bullshit when the guys wanted their jobs back and women were shooed back into the kitchen.
Just a little late night word here that younger folks shouldn't ignore old films thinking they're all stodgy. Plenty of proto-feminists to be found.
Jenny,
Thanks for the info on Christopher Jones. I hadn't heard about the near accident, or that he got more fanmail than Leonardo DiCaprio in his Titanic days. (I guess you weren't the only one who thought he was cute!)
Kate -
Have to pop back in here to mention "The Women" clare booth luce's classic. strong women, all...
toonscribe -
Jones must have been very, very young in "Night of the Iguana", don't you think? I don't remember him in it either. Love that film too...
Was he Sue Lyons boyfriend in "Night of the Iguana"? I don't particularly remember a boyfriend in the movie, but his age would be about right.
Jenny -- I forgot to thank you for the kind words about Tennessee, earlier. I have pleasant memories of both Maryland (where my youngest brother got married) and Colorado (a very nice vacation in the mountains about 7 years ago.
Is "Private Lives" the name of the Noel Coward play turned into a film with Norma Shearer about two divorced ex-spouses who each re-marry and find themselves honeymooning in adjacent hotel rooms?? That film, whatever it's called, is such a hoot! Late twenties, I think, and so naughty!! It's a gem, and I remember thinking throughout the whole thing, "I can't believe they said that on-screen back then!"
Yes, Kate!
Thanks for mentioning some of my favorite movies. Not only the pre-Code stuff from the early 30s, like some of Jean Harlow's, but also "His Girl Friday." I also like Carole Lombard's stuff, including her priceless, spot-on parody of Garbo in "The Princess Comes Across."
I definitely agree that people shouldn't automatically assume all old movies are stodgy and just perpetuate stereotypes.
Ahh, and "Grand Hotel." Tres scandalous.
By the way, thanks for mentioning "The Women." Another women's ensemble film was "Stage Door" with a group of aspiring actresses in a boarding house, all competing, at times cooperating, deliciously fun cattiness, but serious bitching about unfair attitudes toward women's roles laced throughout, too. Kate Hepburn, Lucille Ball, Ginger Rodgers(?), Eve Arden, etc.
Kate
Yes, that's "Private Lives" -- a great movie.
Well, it's time for me to turn in. Thanks everyone for a fun late night.
Carole Lombard was a genius, Wile! Like Marion Davies she had such a gift at comic impersonation, as well as terrific acting ability. Such energy in a slim package.
I remember my mom telling me how much she cried when Carole Lombard's plane crashed.
Night, Toonscribe! And thanks to all for making night-owlishness so much fun.
Yes, "Private Lives," IMO, is the movie you're thinking of. Norma Shearer, Herbert Marshall, and Gary Cooper, IIRC.
There was also a movie of the same pre-Code era in which Ruth Chatterton plays an auto executive who runs her company very well, and also treats men as an accessory, not as the goal of her existence. Can't think of the title, but that was also a good one.
Don't know that one, Wile, but it sounds like something I'd really enjoy a lot. What else was Ruth Chatterton in? Her name definitely rings a bell, but I'm drawing a blank, can't place the face.
BTW, are you familiar with Sylvia Sydney? When my mom was a young thing, people used to stop her on the street telling her how much she looked like the actress. To give you an idea when that was, I wear my mom's 1936 high school class ring to keep her memory close.
Um, not that I'm as old as that would sound. She had her youngest child when she was 44.
Carole Lombard's death also devastated Clark Gable. His postwar films are just not as good as his pre-war stuff, and, while you could say he was getting too old to play his usual sort of character, I think a lot of it had to do with the loss of Lombard.
I also heard that Welles was chagrined that people associated Marion Davies with the Susan Kane character in "Citizen Kane." Of course, WR Hearst didn't do her career any good, either, because he wanted her to give up her metier, comedy, in favor of what he liked to see her in, costume dramas.
Wile E. Odysseus,
About Zell and the 17th Amendment from way up in the thread...
His reasons were basically the same as Keyes - states rigths, basically - but with another side dose of claiming the current system encouraged - and I shit you not - cronyism. Apparently, repealing the 17th Amendment and letting state officials appoint U.S. senators would get rid of that.
Zell Miller's a fighter for the common man. Right. In any event, I haven't heard much from that or, really, from Zell. He's gone from being incredibly obnoxious and insulting earlier in the year than doing little more than preening over being The GOP's favorite lapdog Democrat.
I've never checked, but when the lights go out in Freeperville, do they sit up all night talking about music and movies?
I know you've moved on to the classic stuff, but I have to make a plug for the films of the 70's. Having grown up in then, I have a certain affection for the films, though many of them I was too young to see at the time. (Speaking of the mighty green one, some of my early movie memories include watching Godzilla vs. the Smog Monster and Ultraman at the drive-in in my pj's) Say what you want about Jaws- I went to bed dreaming about sharks coming after me, and I lived a good 400 miles from the nearest ocean!
I have to throw in a personal favorite, Harold and Maude, which I just got to see again on the big screen last week. I must have seen it a dozen times in theaters over the years, and it never fails to draw an audience and to delight. I think everyone has the same favorite moment in the film- Harold's slyly evil smile after his 2nd date leaves followed by utter submission under his mother's withering glare.
Some other favorites from the Me decade, in no particular order (or genre, or political persuasion): Chinatown, Dirty Harry, Shaft, Godfather I&II, Taxi Driver, The Last Picture Show, Dog Day Afternoon, Young Frankenstein, MASH, Annie Hall, Manhatten, Love and Death, Blazing Saddles, A Clockwork Orange, Summer of 42, Enter the Dragon, Cuckoo's Nest, Apocalypse Now, Westworld, Soylent Green, Heaven Can Wait, Alien, Superman, Last House on the Left, The Sting, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, The Shining, Star Wars, The Jerk, Animal House....
Apparently I could go on and on. And that's just the US stuff. Not all of them are great films, but they capture a moment in time (as does Easy Rider, I would also argue).
Yikes- given the time and the fact that Haloscan ate my last post (I think) I better stop there. Oh- but on the classics, one of my absolute favorites (which I recently got to see in a theater with a restored print) is 1947's The Ghost and Mrs. Muir, with Rex Harrison and the radiant Gene Tierney (and a young Natalie Wood). For the romantic in me. I suppose I should balance that out with The Maltese Falcon, or just about anything Bogie (or John Huston)did- now there's a versatile actor.
Ruth Chatterton was in a number of movies in the 30s, but the only one that comes to mind just now is "in Name Only," with Cary Grant and Carole Lombard. Ruth played Cary's evil wife who would not give him a divorce so he could be with Carole (whom he had met innocently) and who had Cary's parents convinced that he was the bad one.
I am indeed familiar with Sylvia Sydney. I've seen her in "Dead End," though I couldn't name a lot of her other movies off the top of my head. Your mother was quite beautiful if people thought she looked like Sylvia Sydney!
Hello again
I saw one of your posts describing Kerry's vote against the $87 billion appropriation bill. You couched his objection as fiscal conservatism.
This is a good track to take. Am I to understand that Kerry wanted the cost of the war to be a loan to the Iraqis?
I love that idea.
Unfortunately we had a million people from all around the globe marching with their No War For Oil signs.
It forced Bush to play the cards dealt to him. If he had aquiesed to Kerry's fiscally conservative war on loan plan there wouldn't have been a way to convince the Iraqi's we were not there to steal their oil.
We all got screwed on that one.
Still it's a good tack for the Kerry camp to take. a $400+ billion deficit is persuasive no matter where you sweep it. After Kerry loses I hope Bush remembers that it was the main topic of the debates.
How bout that Bush? He finally closing the only base that should have been closed after Reagan won the cold war. Our troops will be singing All our bases they belong to you. - to the Germans.
Backslider,
Thanks for the news on Zell. As I was saying upthread, I don't think appointing Senators, or having them chosen by legislatures, would diminish cronyism. If anything, it would increase it.
I'll see if I can stomach seeing Zell speak at the convention. Like you, I want to see if the Republicans can give me a positive reason to vote for Bush this year. I'm not planning onit, but I'd like to see if they can.
JeffCO,
You list some good movies from the 70s. Can't fault you for them. Too bad Jenny from the Blog and Toonscribe didn't stick around long enough to read your list.
I really doubt they discuss movies in Freeperville, much beyond "Triumph of the Will" or "Red Dawn," after dark, but I don't go there much, so I don't speak from experience.
Wild in the Streets has a terrific anthem, "Shapes of Things to Come" by Max Frost and the Troopers! I actually have the 45 around here somewhere....
Sorry, that should be "Shape of Things to Come" - obviously got two song titles confused. *blush*
Probably am back around too late. But just in case:
Jeffco - I enjoyed your list, too. And "The Ghost and Mrs. Muir" never fails to make me cry. I always tell myself 'this time it won't happen,' but there I am, sniffling again. It's such a beautiful, warm story. And I grew up so near the ocean, that part calls to me, too.
Wile - I always manage to just miss "In Name Only" when it shows up on TCM. Notice it on the schedule after it's been on. I've seen almost every Cary Grant film but that one, so now I know to look for Ruth Chatterton. (She's not the photographer in "The Philadelphia Story" is she?) -- And thanks for what you said about mom. I have her engagement announcement photo (as printed in the paper in 1939), 8 X 12, in the original Art Deco black and silver frame, and people often just say, WOW, what a looker.
Avedon - that's too funny. You really have that 45? And no need to blush around the all-nighter crowd!
Incase anyone's interested, these are our biggest oil suppliers.
no imagination
Sweet Jesus man, be quiet. Next thing you know that fuckwad Bush will want to invade Canada.
"Nothing can change the shape of things
nothing can change the shape of things
nothing can change the shape of things to come"
Richard Pryor was also in that movie, very underused.
"The other evening on Chris Matthews,Chris floored me! He said that Dick Cheney, as Sec. of Defense during Desert Storm, is responsible for 10,000 American Troops being left in Saudi Arabia for all the years since that war ended. It is the presence of those American Troops that has enraged the Terrorist Factors, so badly, that Chris blames their presence for the attacks on Sept 11, and the deaths of 3,000 of us. I haven't thought of anything else since!
Annya | Email | Homepage | 08.14.04 - 8:04 pm | # "
this is the problem - YOU
this information has ALWAYS been available - and has been known. Bin Laden himself said the attacks on 9/11 were because we had a military presence in saudi arabia AND kept backing Israel!
nothing new - all old hat....
conveniently hidden to talk about kerry's throwing of his medals!!!!
we have had MORE reporting on that AND gay marriages than the TRUTH of our foreign policy - which is....
HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of american troops all over the world right now - why?
millions of cops on main street to impose big-brother order....more americans in jail than the rest of the world combined!!!
"freedom of speech" zones!!!! WTF!!
billions spent to 'democratize' parts of the world - when the people simply want us out!
Head in the sand, elitist, arrogance of closed-minded, religion-based pseudo-thinking; will be the downfall of the amurcan empire!
Why do these fucking shithead journalists keep harping on the sensitive adjective? They are more to blame about this than Cheney is. Kerry used sensitive in a string of adjectives about fighting the war. It's been totally mischaracterized by the media. And as the Daily Show pointed out the other day--the moron used the same word when referring to mid eastern intelligence gathering.
We who support Kerry should be complaining to him about that idiotic statement about still supporting his voting for the use of force even with what he knows now. Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, Mr. Kerry.
GFY Dick!
O Lord, you've delivered the sign we need:
You're displeased with the Bushian creed.
The storms you create
Prove you're irate.
A defeat of the Chimp is decreed.
Cheney's full of crap, per usual.
For the Vice President's response:
Click
here
Please have your sound on before you click. Wait for the image of the vice president to appear, then click play
Coming to the thread late, but...Hm... A little perpelexed about antipathy to It's A Wonderful Life, a delightfully subversive movie.
Let's look at the theme alone: One ordinary person makes a difference, after all, although he didn't live a glorious life of fame and fortune. He just did good and decent things for others, every day of his life, without asking for much in return. Perhaps they weren't earth-shattering things, but they were things that were more important than they're given credit for.
Without Everyman George Bailey (and of course people like him), life in that one town would have been a hell not worth imagining: cruelty and big business run amok. Sort of what life would look like if today's Republicans had their way, yes?
Underneath that message, It's a Wondeful Life makes it clear that everyone has an inherent value, regardless of status. We all have something to contribute, and nobody is more worthy than another, really. George Bailey pretty much lived by that standard. That's pretty subversive, in and of itself.
Capra seems to be saying that it isn't our leaders or our celebrities or even money or power that makes the world go 'round, but ordinary people fulfilling their part of the social contract. Without each of them, implicitly acting as a collective, our world really would be different.
How many would dare to make such a movie now?
Wile E. Odysseus, Kay Francis played Cary Grant's evil scheming wife in In Name Only.
Great movie. Perfect ending. And she gets hers in the end.
"Without each of them, implicitly acting as a collective, our world really would be different."
Subversive? Collective? Must be commie bedwetters made that movie. I'm putting this George Bailey and that Capra fellow on the red list, you can bet on that.
Can't let the red-tinted bastards steal our precious bodily fluids now, can we?
Harrumph.
From Josh Marshall "Every working journalist should read this Kevin Drum post on John Kerry's position on the Iraq war and the Iraq war resolution".
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com...4_08/
004512.php
In a nutshell Bush blew it in Iraq...
He failed to rally world opinion, he failed to get the Arab world on our side, he failed to let the inspections process run its course, and he failed to plan properly for the postwar occupation. The result is a loss of American power and prestige, a diminished chance of Iraq becoming a pluralistic democracy, and an al-Qaeda that's been given a second lease on life thanks to George Bush's Queeg-like obsession with Saddam Hussein.
Not so hard to understand at all.
back to Josh Marshall
http://
www.talkingpointsmemo.com...8_08.php#003276
It's sad, but perhaps predictable, to see so many members of the print and electronic press getting led around by the nose by the Bush crew on this one.
That doesn't mean that Kerry is in the clear on any legitimate criticism. But ironically the best argument against Kerry's position is one that is simply off-limits to the president -- namely, that Kerry should have or perhaps did know that the president was lying when he said he needed the muscle of the resolution to force the inspectors back in and have some hope of settling the crisis short of war.
The president was dishonest with the world and dishonest with the American people. He gamed the process and it blew up in his face -- though with a long fuse. By any reasonable moral reckoning he deserves all the comeuppance of his bad faith. The tragedy is that the American people, the folks he scammed, have to suffer the brunt of the tragedy and will continue to do so long after he is, hopefully, tossed out of office in just less than a dozen weeks.
Yes, agree with you wholeheartedly Josh.
Papertiger: This is a good track to take. Am I to understand that Kerry wanted the cost of the war to be a loan to the Iraqis?
I love that idea.
Ah, early-morning troll-feeding. Not sure Kerry's stance on the loans package, although that was certainly suggested as an alternative to letting the next two generations pay for the war. Kerry supported rolling back the top 1-2% of the tax cuts to pay for it, but that was too large a sacrifice for Bush's base, so Bush threatened to veto the bill if passed with that source of funding.
Who were the guys selling the "Iraq can pay for its own destruction & war profiteering reCONstruction?" That's right -- Wolfowitz, Natsios, et al.
Asshat.
.
Yeah, great, haha, funny, what a hypocrite, what an asshole...
You think Joe and Jane are gonna see this shit on Peter Jennings? THAT'S the problem. Not only is IOKIYAR, but the reason is 'cuz nobody's ever going to hear it. Not on a mass scale, anyway. Maybe here. Maybe on Air America. Maybe in The Nation. If you're damned lucky, maybe on The Daily Show.
Ran into an older gentleman yesterday from conservative Long Island, who proudly proclaimed his right-wing sensibilities. We very matter-of-factly dropped a couple of factual turds in his ear. Tax stuff, war stuff, data that sort of made it impossible even for a conservative to support the current Reich if he had an IQ of at least 60. The proverbial no-brainer.
His reaction was one I've seen a thousand times: "Okay, I don't want to hear any more. We need to stop talking about this."
And that's the difference between Left thinkers and wingnuts. It has nothing to do with whose ideology is right or wrong. When a wingnut starts talking politics with you, do you shut your ears like a chimpanzee and go, "Stop! STOP!" ? Of course not. I've seen y'all debate the trolls on this board. You're eager to flip anyone who isn't a total retard!
But the reason you seldom succeed is because, conversely, when a Leftie starts debating politics with a conservative, the response is usually, "STOP! I don't want to hear anymore!" These people are not merely incompetent to debate you; they are PROTECTING themselves from emotional damage that they feel might occur if you tamper with their belief system.
I think here is where we can truly understand the nature of the hard-core support for Bush, that exists among those who do not have a vested interest in the Republican overthrow of our government and redistribution of the nation's wealth. These folks, by and large, come from a subculture or generation where critical thinking was not encouraged. Therefore, they have invested emotionally in authority, their preznit, their daddy, and a call to change their thinking using real facts is a request to blow up their core belief system.
This threatens their mental health. It's the emotional equivalent of asking them to give up their religion and start worshipping trees.
I hate to say it, but this problem is totally insurmountable, and we have no choice but to bail when we encounter people in this mental state. So we're back to having to sway the 547 Stupids, as always.
Orville-
Check out Daily Kos and My DD--blogs which have spent a lot of time and analysis on just your question. Atrios too has been fund raising for specicfic congress candidates. Your funding can make a difference.
a must see Carol Lombard in Hitchcocks,MR and Mrs. Smith...Hitches only comedy! and by the by ..its The Bitter Tea of Gen. YEN! great flick
Quick! Someone get this to Jon Stewart's writers!
This would be perfect for The Daily show.
And it won't be the first time Stewart's shown Cheney's cheneying bulshitting.
BTW, are you familiar with Sylvia Sydney? When my mom was a young thing, people used to stop her on the street telling her how much she looked like the actress. To give you an idea when that was, I wear my mom's 1936 high school class ring to keep her memory close.
Speaking of SS, she's in One Third of a Nation...a truly strange social-justice epic from the thirties...it features a talking tenement building that brags about infecting the people who live in it with diptheria! Has to be seen to be believed.
Speaking of Gene Tierney, put me down for The Dark Mirror and The Shanghai Gesture.
Wile E.--
Fritz Lang's "Fury" (anti-lynching) and "Black Legion" (anti-Klan) to your list.
Oh God, yeah. EVERYONE should watch "Fury," in particular. Especially you, Maroon Golf! Very very pertinent to today's climate.
Oh BTW--and this is the last I'll say on the matter for now: Edward, My Son by George Cukor is REALLY worth seeing. I defy anyone to watch it and not be reminded of the Bush family.
Standa
In that Kevin Drum must read article
He makes the supposition that increased Ameican presence in Saudi Arabia or there abouts alone would result in the desired effect. IE stopping terrorism.
That reminds me of Maya Ober, a 21-year-old Polish student at the Academy of Fine Arts in Poznan and member of the Polish Union of Jewish Students, statement last week. She was assaulted by three Frenchmen while on a tour of Auschwitz.
She said, "I was shocked. Although I have met anti-Semitism many times, I never expected to meet it at Auschwitz, where so many of my relatives were killed,"
Didn't Bin Laden start attacking because of his objection to American military pressure? I have seen many of you on this board deride Mr. Cheney for keeping 20,000 troops in Saudi Arabia.
So your Josh agrees with Cheney's idea from 1992 and Mr. Kerry has status quo as his foreign policy platform.(I don't believe it was Mr. Cheneys idea to institute the no fly zones, but even if it was, Mr. Clinton was the CinC for eight long years. He never adjusted the situation.)
Are you stupid?
What your Mr. Kerry is recommending is to give the terrorists more stationary American boys to shoot, while simultaneously augmenting the terrorists original reason for shooting at them.
*smacks forehead
It's like talking to children in here.
pie,
You are right about Kay Francis in "In Name Only." My only defense is that I was fading along with the night when I typed that. My apologies to Kate for steering her wrong.
Ruth Hussey was the photographer in "Philadelphia Story." Really liked her, too.
I just did what I should have done in the first place, and checked the Internet Movie Database, which is here. It is a great resource for finding out about actors' and directors' careers, details about movies (including cast), etc. Ruth Chatterton was in "Female," the 1933 movie I mentioned upthread about the woman auto executive, and her biggest movie role was probably as Fran, the unsympathetic wife of the title character (Walter Huston) in 1936's "Dodsworth." (Dodsworth, the auto executive hero of a like-named novel by Sinclair Lewis, is a guy who finds his company has been bought out, so, for the first time in years, he doesn't know what to do with himself. His wife is a snob and hauls him off to Europe, where she proceeds to cheat on him, but he comes to discover that there's more to life than making money, and finds a new love with Mary Astor.)
LJ,
I also like "It's a Wonderful Life," though I sympathise with Jenny from the Blog's disninclination towards it. A friend of mine has a variation on that Brit show "Desert Island Disks," not, as the original is designed to do, list the music we would want to take with us to a desert island, but instead to list the music we would like to send to a desert island, because we're tired of it. If one extended that to movies, a lot of folks would send "It's a Wonderful Life" to such a desert island, if only out of over-exposure.
This is why I love blogs: "(thanks to reader ecoast)"
The national media might be sleeping, but at least ONE person noticed the vice president's duplicity and whispered the details of such to our esteemed Atrios' e-mail box. And now we all know. Isn't this cool?
Philalethes -
Thanks for the tip on "One Third of a Nation," it gives me something of real interest to hunt down, as I've been looking for more of Sylvia's work. The tip on "Edward, My Son" sounds like a hot one, too.
sittenpretty -
"Mr. & Mrs. Smith" is another great hoot. I'm surprised it's not better known. And whoever it was who played Mr. Smith - too damn lazy to check at IMDB just now - I think he was one of the loony spouses in "Private Lives" with Norma Shearer, not Gary Cooper as someone suggested earlier.
Hey, Wile, my late-night movie pal! -
Not to worry, the wrong steering is only a problem if you start proceeding down the road, which I hadn't yet. Yes, of course, Ruth Hussey, not Chatterton -- what I love about the Philadelphia Story is the dryness of the humor, and Ruth Hussey was perfect in that regard. My dad was the kind of guy who could say outrageously witty things with a straight face, and I've always had a fondness for that sort of banter ever since. And don't you just love the kid's character, "Dinah," speaking French on point ballet shoes and singing "Lydia, oh Lydia"? Cracks me up every time.
The national media might be sleeping, but at least ONE person noticed the vice president's duplicity
Yes the Atrios brown shirts are right on the spot to declair any words spoken by the Administration as verboden.
Good news. With 616,500 or so words in the dictionary it means you have job security.
Yes the Atrios brown shirts are right on the spot to declair any words spoken by the Administration as verboden.
Hey, you ass. You have about 10 misspellings in this one sentence. Moron.
What are we gonna do now that we know Kerry lied about his Vietnam service?
I feel like his whole core has been exposed?
Is it too late to replace him as a candidate?
Do we need another Clinton?
Yes, the dryness of the humor in "Philadelphia Story" is great. I also love deadpan humor, and that movie is a great example of it. I do indeed love the character of Dinah, and the whole act she and Tracy Lords put on for the increasingly confused Macaulay Connor and Elizabeth Imbry.
Robert Montgomery (star of "Mr. and Mrs. Smith" and father of TV's Elizabeth Montgomery) was indeed in "Private Lives," which on reflection I must have been confusing with "Design for Living."
So, as long as the debate about whether or not we need to be running as more sensitive war on terror is going on, it might be interesting to look at what CAC military review say about the subject in terms of training junior leadership:
(http://www.leavenworth.army.mil/milrev
/download/English/JulAug04/romaine.pdf)
They say that,
"Because of changing global politics, societal idiosyncracies,and organizational transformation, several
aspects of the tactical environment have changed."
which means that junior officers have to interact with local leaders, NGOs, non-combatants, etc. in areas that could instantly become combat zones.
For officers in this environment,
“a rich and varied sociopolitical
knowledge base is often more important than a proficiency with the employment of weapons systems.”
Their conclusion is that military actors have to be discerning and subtle--or sensitive--if they are to succeed in modern battle.
Uncle Sam wants...liberal arts students.
TQA
Breaking news 8/15:
"Offensive resumes in Najaf, prompting desertions of Iraqi troops".
so cheney's answer is for the marines to continue to slaughter al Sadr's supporters? even the unarmed ones who have encircled the shrine to protest the bloodshed?
WHAT AN IDIOT.
definition of neocon: Clueless.
Hey, Wile -
It seems like you have great taste. And the fact that it seems to be virtually identical to mine has nothing to do with that claim.
You and I could sit down and watch movies together with no arguments, it seems!
We didn't win the Cold War by being sensitive. Nope. We nuked the shit out of those commie bastards! Talking and stuff is for sissies and don't accomplish squat. You lefties crack me up.
Hey, maybe what John mean to say was sensitive diplomacy and sensible war, neither if which Bushco could manage.
Besides that, I thought we told you to go fuck yourself, Dick. Should you not be somewhere in your undisclosed location doing just that?
Hey, maybe what John mean to say was sensitive diplomacy and sensible war, neither of which Bushco could manage.
Besides that, I thought we told you to go fuck yourself, Dick. Should you not be somewhere in your undisclosed location doing just that?
Cheney pissed away the "macho oomph" of his mockery of sensitivity with your revelation of that particular exchange.
Thanks, Atrios.
Characters Remaining:
Commenting by HaloScan
