I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Firstest?
The General had a great letter re: hot sauce Under Louisiana Baby Food - a must read.
The highlight of each TBogging week. Too bad Peggy Noonan is hacking full-time for Santorum now.
Actually the reality-show I am most looking forward to this fall is The World's Most Desperate Homeland Security Warnings.
You know it is going to get lamer than just "we have no credible evidence, but look out Vet Hospitals."
I'm waiting for World O Crap to open, but you must be referring to the Lisa Welchel hot sauce on the tongue thing?
She's a nut job, a Christian fundie.
I think it's cruel, and if my mom did it to me, I'd bite her finger off.
Fuck Lisa.
"Grandmother is your authority" ?
I will never again complain about my upbringing. In fact, I think I'm going to print out the original column, frame it and give it to my mother on Mother's Day as a thank you for not being COMPLETELY FUCKING PSYCHO.
A.
More proof that wingnuts are insane.
She should be hitched to a doggie chain.
For this outrage,
She should dwell in a cage,
And her ass introduced to the cane.
OT: A Florida administrative law judge has struck down Jeb Bush's executive order banning manual recounts for touch-screen voting machines. This is according to a terse three-paragraph story tucked away in the bottom righthand corner on page A12 of today's NYT. The State will likely appeal to reinstate Jeb's ruling by fiat. But this is great news for those of us who, for the first time in our lives, have become hardened conspiracy theorists thanks to this attempt to short-circuit the State recount law (as well as grossly inaccurate felon-ineligibility lists, black voter intimidation, etc.).
Jerry Corsi, on the of scumbags who wrote Unfit for Command, is to appear at a local bookseller in about an hour. I'm going to see who shows up. Maybe I can heckle him too...
A friend invited me to go hear Mommy Dearest Lisa speak. I'm so glad I found an excuse not to go. I might have been tempted to get up and strangle the bitch right then and there. It worries me that my friend might have gone and heard her. She has an autistic child. I'll bet Lisa would have a great corrective punishment for that!
Yeah, Athenae, I'm thinking I've been pretty luck right about now, too. Thanks, mom, for not being twisted.
Lisa oughta take her little bottle of Tobasco over to Vice President Cheney's house, ya think?
I wonder if Lisa ever gives the kids a tongue lashing.
The Post reports that Lisa says that she knows that the technique can be "abused." Which is good of her to concede, since a Google search of "hot sauce" "child abuse" and "murder" comes up with 145 hits.
I suspect this is a straw man. A google search of any three words probably returns a shitload of hits.
"If there's a mom who shakes the bottle on the kid's tongue, that mom probably does deserve to have someone poking into her business," Whelchel said.
I saw Lisa Whelchel on one of the morning shows this week. The Hot Sauce punishment was the topic. It brought back memories of my youth. I have a feeling this is a "Southern Thing" (I'm sure all y'all unwashed heathens from north of Vancleave, MS will correct me if I'm wrong *grin*). My mother used this punishment for backtalking, cursing, etc... it's a variation of the "washing out the mouth with soap" thing. In my youth, I'm sure I had about an entire large bottle of Trappey's Bull sauce dribbled onto my smart tongue, one drop at a time.
I didn't kill anyone, rape anyone, or rob anyone. I didn't descend into alcoholism or drug abuse. I'm a reasonably well-adjusted, responsible, productive individual who grew up to raise two reasonably well-adjusted, responsible kids.
It's not a big fucking deal. Nothing to see here, move on, please.
Look - there's a spy in the Pentagon. Can we focus, people?
I wonder if Lisa ever gives the kids a tongue lashing.
Lisa can give me a tongue-lashing any time.
Mmmmm slower, Blair...
What was Lisa's kid's name? Carrie?
I bet they don't need any matches around that house.
OT:
Can Bobo be any worse than his recent columns?
Oh yes, indeed he can.
Did you know the Republicans were less ideological these days?
...didn't think so.
The Mom who carries around packets of hot sauce for "extreme circumstances" says it all. I've got two kids myself (9 and 11), we never go to church, don't pay much attention at all to god or his alleged authority (figuring he'd let us know if he really cared), and yet I have yet to hear anything from their mouths that I'd say warranted a blast of acid. Yet, these supposed God-fearing xtians, who spend all their waking moments trying to please "authority" and live by some list of rules, have kids who are so foul-mouthed they must carry around packets of organic acid to "discipline the tongue?"
Why do xtian kids hate god?
Lisa Welchel has become a camp icon in the circles I frequently frequent on the 'net. Like all of her ilk she's damned near impossible to parody.
Hey RC Sanders,
Take a chill pill dude. There are LOTS of important things in the world.
As to your claim not to have been harmed by the punishment you received as a child, consider this. Lots of Amish parents punish their kids for profanity by sticking pins in their tongues. And hell, they're so calm they won't even join the army and kill godless Muslims!!
Good luck jim.
Corsi might have people who approach him "vetted" to see if they are pro-Kerry or sympathetic to the Swiftboat Whores.
Organic acid?
Please. It's hot sauce. I loved the stuff, actually. It was totally ineffective. 
Did that mom who tortured her child with acid for calling a sibling a "crybaby" give the same child a sweet for calling President Clinton a "scumbag?" I'm thinking so.
The Mormons used to wear underwear with thorns. A white garment/body suit kind of a thing. Now that's abusive.
a Google search of "hot sauce" "child abuse" and "murder" comes up with 145 hits.
A Google search of "ketchup" "child abandonment" and "assault" turns up 802 hits.
Are you all outraged at mothers who give their children ketchup?
Did you know the Republicans were less ideological these days?
Well, sure they are. Just ask those fine folks from Mississippi that some of us got to read about yesterday.
(shoot. can't find it now. but those of you who were there know what I'm talking about. No ideology there, nosirree. Just pure, unadulterated hard-shell Baptist "you're all sinners 'n' goin' to hell!" theology. So I guess it supports Brooks, after all....)
Oh, as for the "topic," all I can say is, it takes all kinds....
...and that sure makes for a mighty strange world.
Sometimes stranger than I think I need to know about....
Judy W. is cheerleading for the GOP right now on CNN,with big smile and everything ''they're going into the convention with the knowledge they will win in november" or something like that...sickening, a full table of CNN women cheerleading for the GOP!
You're right that it's ineffective. We had a thumb-sucker and were worried about her teeth, so we tried hot sauce on her thumb.
It worked for about one day, then she decided she liked the stuff. I guess it added some zest to the plain old thumb.
Hey RC--can't speak for others, but there's no outrage over hot sauce for me. It's that immature, superstitious, overgrown children are passing on their fears, prejudices, and hostile natures to future generations that gets my goat.
The hot sauce part just makes it fun to taunt them.
Charles Vermont:
Yeah, I probably should choose my battles a bit more carefully. I'm just wishing people would channel their indignation a bit more carefully right now, when it's really needed.
For what it's worth, I probably would have liked the pins in the tongue thing, too.
OT: I don't think I can stomach watching the GOP Convention next week.
There is nothing that Bush has to say that I will believe.
It's not the actual discipline that's the problem, it's that insane people are using it.
This is kinda like the Kerry giving authority to the President remark. I believe, as do most Americans, that responsible parents should have the authority to raise their kids the way they know how. The key word is "responsible."
Here's your google search.
Here's one of the returns:
...as Morris watched professional wrestling with his girlfriend, Mrs. Gee and her husband, Timothy Gee, Dustin became cranky. Prosecutors say Morris became annoyed.
Morris, who was 6 feet 1, 260 pounds, shook the boy, threw him to the floor and punched him repeatedly in the head and stomach and poured hot sauce in his mouth as his parents watched, prosecutors say.
Dustin went limp and quickly went into convulsions. He suffered a swollen brain and died at Bayfront Medical Center two days later.
Fuck you.
"Republican" "Murder" and "Child Abuse" brings in about 15,000 hits.
dave:
It's not the hot sauce. It's the brain-dead moron holding the bottle that kills kids.
Fuck you.
Only if you promise to give me a reach-around and kiss me afterward. You don't have to snuggle.
Vicki Stein sez:
OT: I don't think I can stomach watching the GOP Convention next week.
Same here.
Luckily, there are more than a few masochists here who will watch it and report to the rest of us.
.
Judy W. is cheerleading for the GOP right now on CNN
News ratings day:
P2+ (persons)
CNN: 425,000
It's not a big fucking deal. Nothing to see here, move on, please.
The larger issue is corporal/physical punishment. Hot sauce one day, spanking another, and the chance, if mommy is really mad, a real beating another. It's called authoritarian parenting -- and some parents do cross the line to really damaging abuse.
I do family court evaluations. I run into this constantly. Not always, but quite often the result is a rage filled kid. Y
ou know, the ones who beat up other kids, etc. For what they can look like as adults -- bully boy, over the top, Bill O'Reilly was abused as a kid.
spork_incident:
I have to ask...
Was there an actual incident with a spork that inspired your name?
Why do you need a liscence to get married but not one to have a kid? shouldn't that be reversed?
It's not the hot sauce. It's the brain-dead moron holding the bottle that kills kids.
That's why "child abuse" and "murder" are in the search terms, asshole.
The larger issue is corporal/physical punishment. Hot sauce one day, spanking another, and the chance, if mommy is really mad, a real beating another.
Hot sauce is the "gateway punishment".
ROFL
Where else but here can I find apologists for child abuse first thing in the morning?
My mother would've been a double amputee if she'd tried this crap with me. Fortunately, I too was raised by a non-psycho.
Mmm, got a hankering for hot buffalo tenders now...
it isn't the sauce per se, or even corporal punishment. It's the creepy fucking obsessive attitude about it.
Molly Ringwold was on the Facts of Life.
"It worked for about one day, then she decided she liked the stuff. I guess it added some zest to the plain old thumb.
Cole the Younger | Email | Homepage | 08.28.04 - 10:14 am | #"
Have you ever tried Carolina style barbeque?
I'm less freaked by the hot sauce than by the way Whelchel talks about her daughter. "She bent over, submitting to my instruction"???
Gah. I think I have to take a shower now.
If you want real hot sauce punishment - try Dave's Insanity sauce.
But, even thats mild anymore.
Now, if yer talkin North Carolina style pulled pork (with cole slaw & the spicy vinegar sauce) yes.
I make it frequently.
"it isn't the sauce per se, or even corporal punishment. It's the creepy fucking obsessive attitude about it.
Atrios | Email | Homepage | 08.28.04 - 10:40 am | #"
Did anyone hear the piece on NPR this week where the mother celebrated losing control of her child and sanctioned beating him in public?
I have never used corporal punishment on my child and he is a model of good behavior.
You know that christians value life when they discipline their children in the same manner that they train farm animals.
MYOB'
.
Where else but here can I find apologists for child abuse first thing in the morning?
No one's apologizing for child abuse. I'm expressing my opinion that hot sauce on the tongue is not child abuse.
I'm a hot sauce apologist. Can't get enough of the stuff.
I'd bend over and submit to Lisa's instructions, too. She was the object of many a twisted adolescent fantasy for me.
"The larger issue is corporal/physical punishment. Hot sauce one day, spanking another, and the chance, if mommy is really mad, a real beating another.
Hot sauce is the "gateway punishment".
ROFL
RCSanders | Email | Homepage | 08.28.04 - 10:36 am | #"
That's pretty much my personal experience. Positive reinforcement, non-violent punishment, and clear linkage between behavior and consequences are the key.
Violence is too readily an end in itself to be used as a child care tool. And chemicaly inflicted pain is torture no matter how our house 'winger frames it.
It's the creepy fucking obsessive attitude about it.
Absolutely. In fact, authoritarian parents are controlling, punitive, rigid, obsessive and cold. Pretty familiar traits, when you think of it, of the GOP.
I have never used corporal punishment on my child and (s)he is a model of good behavior.
Mine, too. Mine doesn't even swear (believes it shows a lack of class), unlike her salty dog mother, who loves to pepper conversations with expletives.
them thar' fundies can't be beat for pulchritudinous putridity, eh?
In thinking about it, you could call it the Blair Bitch Project. (Used the word "bitch" out of respect to Hecate, because if I were a witch, I wouldn't want that bitch associated with me, either.)
RCSanders-
Let's just say sporks are not what they seem.
.
Violence is too readily an end in itself to be used as a child care tool. And chemicaly inflicted pain is torture no matter how our house 'winger frames it.
Dude, I've been posting on Eschaton for a year and a half. That's the first time anyone's ever called me a "winger".
ROFLMAO
Rest assured, I am, by no means, a "winger" of any description. But thanks, I'll chuckle over this all day now.
Jesus H, clothes pins and hot sauce on your childrens' tongues?! What the fuck kind of sickass bastard does shit like this? And to a CHILD!
I hope Lisa saves her royalties from "Facts of Life" to pay for her kids' therapy sessions, they're probably going to need it having a complete psychopath for a mother. Her sadistic parenting is something straight out of "Sybil".
Maybe she can review the Abu Ghraib tapes for futher parenting "tips".
It's all about control. Read her other "creative corrections." (That's a Republican style theme that means nothing if I ever heard one.) Children intuitively know that spanking is good for them? Yikes.
It's all about control. Why do the fundies want to control everything and everyone?
Maybe she can review the Abu Ghraib tapes for futher parenting "tips".
Or she could read PARENTING MADE EASY by the Marquis De Sade...
Of course, here in liberal New York, if a mother were doing half the stuff that whacko bragged about doing, she'd have the Child Protective Services on her ass tout suite. Under the definition in our law, it sure is child abuse.
Lisa Welchel .. Am I the first to make the screamingly obvious "Blair witch" pun?
Sorry, Andrew, I beat you to it upthread.
"I'm just wishing people would channel their indignation a bit more carefully right now, when it's really needed."
RCSanders
I don't think any regular visitors of this fine establishment have any trouble channeling indignation. It is just nice to have a distraction or two every once in a while. Plus it's nice to beat up on Fundies, who if I recall were part of the enemy camp.
How many times do you have the opportunity to mix a horrible '80's sitcom, tobasco sauce dispensin' christian authoritude, and a homeschoolin godgasmitron.
So lets have our fun, lest our outrage tanks run empty.
"Rest assured, I am, by no means, a "winger" of any description. But thanks, I'll chuckle over this all day now.
RCSanders | Email | Homepage | 08.28.04 - 10:57 am | #"
You are exuding a certain troll-like odor today. maybe a bath is in order?
WWMGD? (What Would Mrs. Garrett Do?)
Children intuitively know that spanking is good for them? Yikes.
Most sensible people know that spanking is an activity best left to consenting adults.
I suppose that spankings just roll off some kids' backs, pardon the pun, but kids are just the younger version of the people they'll be -- and if a particular kid-person has an innate horror of violence, any physical punishment will be remembered on a visceral level well into adulthood. Probably well into old age.
As for the hot sauce: That's just fucked up, period. Lisa Whelchel played a narcissistic brat in that show, correct? Apparently she wasn't acting.
Grandmother is her authority!? Grandma is a friggin' tattletale. The child needed an appetizer, for God's sake. Is Lisa Whelchel's father John Ashcroft by any chance?
Lisa Whelchel played a narcissistic brat in that show, correct? Apparently she wasn't acting.
And with apologies to the earlier posters, she wasn't even all that sexy. Certainly not in the Alyssa Milano category.
Molly Ringwold was on the Facts of Life.
Another bit of trivia: The show's theme song was written by Alan Thicke.
it isn't the sauce per se, or even corporal punishment. It's the creepy fucking obsessive attitude about it.
I find it hard to dissociate one from the other, frankly.
I remember hearing a story on NPR, some years ago now, about corporal punishment in one of the Nordic countries (Sweden? Norway?). It's outlawed. Has been for years.
The children there consider "spankings" and other corporal punishment the stuff of fairy tales. Literally. They've never known it, and they don't all run wild and demand instant gratification and disrespect their parents, etc., etc.
The "horror" of "spare the rod, spoil the child" (a misreading of Proverbs, but we'll get to that another time) is reversed: use the rod, and you damage the child.
"Corporal punishment," be it by hot sauce or hand, or head slamming, is physical coercion. Pure and simple. Your boss doesn't do that to you. If he did, it would be either sexual harrassment, or assault. But when done to your own child, well...
...which, of course, goes back to the idea that children are property, or "chattel." And beatings are good for them. Even though we've shown they aren't good for dogs; or horses; or taming almost any animal. It's still "good" for kids.
Right.
It is, quite simply, showing the child that the one with greater physical strength, has the right to use it against you. Nothing more, nothing less. Not exactly the best lesson to teach.
And it leads directly to the "creepy fucking obsessive attitude" with it. Not inevitably (my parents "spanked" me, but they never seemed obsessed with it), but too easily (one more reason I have never raised my hand to my 12 year old daughter).
My brother had the misfortune of having to escort Lisa Whechel around Ft. Bragg years and years ago.
You gotta love America.
The only people you can legally assault are children.
Well now look, if Lisa is going to present herself to the planet as a kind of ideal christian parent, then she can't afford to have a daughter who isn't completely cowed, docile, obedient and scared shitless. It's the christian way, after all. Especially when it comes to females.
I highly recommend Jon Krakauer's book on Mormons - "Under the Banner of Heaven." Anyone who reads it will get a real eye-opener about what it means to be a little girl in fundie christian land. Mainly, with the fundie Mormons (and no, that isn't redundant,) it means getting married off to your stepfather, uncle, or perhaps even your own dad, when you are about 13, 14 years old. Hey! God told them to.
Let's see...in my family, eight kids, Dad a school teacher who retired and went to law school. Mother stayed home then went back to college and was valedictorian.
All eight children college graduates with a least one advanced degree.
never. spanked. once.
any of us.
My father would consider spanking his child an insult to his intelligence.
Remind me again why Amy Sullivan thinks it's a good idea to embrace religion? Maybe it's for the great salsa recipes?
genoasail - "You gotta love America. The only people you can legally assault are children."
I'm always reminded of something I read in a book by Jonathan Millman about travelling in Iceland and Greenland. The natives of Greenland have a saying: White people treat their dogs like children and their children like dogs.
(The natives never hit their children, but they beat the shit out of their dogs, according to Millman.)
it isn't the sauce per se, or even corporal punishment. It's the creepy fucking obsessive attitude about it.
Well that, and the fact that this pepper sauce gig is something only dangerously white people from cold places could come up with as a form of punishment. Now me, as a good little southwesterner, could have been chastised good by somebody forcing me to ingest Miracle Whip, but somehow the prospect of a nice chile relleno doesn't strike me as much more than an attempt to create a full tummy and a happy home.
GWPDA - Oooooh no! Not the Miracle Whip! Anything but the Miracle Whip. That stuff is lethally nasty.
Oh dear god, let us all fervently hope that Lisa never catches her daughter touching herself because hot sauce could cause some serious damage to tender spots.
If one of the neighborkids came by and told me their mom was clipping their tongues with clothespins, putting hot pepper sauce in their mouths and pulling them around by their hair, you bet your ass I'd be calling 911.
Tena said:
'Mainly, with the fundie Mormons (and no, that isn't redundant,) it means getting married off to your stepfather, uncle, or perhaps even your own dad, when you are about 13, 14 years old. Hey! God told them to'
I haven't read "Under The Banner Of Heaven" so I can't and won't comment regarding its accuracy. I did hear from time to time anecdotal accounts of some very young folks getting married while I was growing up in Utah, but I don't know if any of that was true. I've known women who were married at age 18 or 19 but that's the youngest I've seen.
The "God told me to" craziness has certainly carried across religious divides to all parts of Christendom and beyond. My personal belief is that alot of these folks are going to find themselves in a bad way when they actually meet God and find out it wasn't him who was speaking to them.
genoasail said:
'My father would consider spanking his child an insult to his intelligence.'
Aside from the obvious power issues involved in child abuse (and physically harming children is abuse), I think resorting to violence is a failure on the part of the parent to think of better ways to teach their children. One thing they might want to consider is teaching by example. I read this book once about a guy who lived in Jerusalem who did that...
Just put this up on the wrong thread -
Oh, and Tena? The fundie Mormon gig is coming to a strangulated close.
haloscan, grrrrr..
See this.
The Hilldale/Colorado City crowd are being squeezed, hard - the RCMP have launched a primary investigation of the cadre in Bountiful, BC, and the group trying to abscond to Texas are losing their property.
These people are of course only the very tip of the iceberg, are criminally nuts and abusive in ways that are only vaguely understood, and all this is going to help only about fifty per cent. But it's a start -
GWPDA said:
'The Hilldale/Colorado City crowd are being squeezed, hard - the RCMP have launched a primary investigation of the cadre in Bountiful, BC, and the group trying to abscond to Texas are losing their property.'
Yeah, those guys need to get some serious time in the clink. I don't have much patience for people who hide criminal activity behind a thin veneer of religiosity... -cough-Bush-cough-
My son, now grown, collects hot sauces. He loves to find some new brand with a name like "Zombie Hellacious Habernero Hot Sauce from Hell" with bad 50s art on the label showing a devil with a pitchfork.
I just talked to him when he did childish things and explained why he shouldn't act like that. A few times, I yelled, but that was because I was frustrated, not because I thought it would help him understand how to behave.
He was a great kid and now he's a great man.
I guess it does take a lot to get 'em right, when you're learning the facts of life.
I wonder who gets to dab Blair's tounge with hot sauce every time she screws up as a mother?
Mmmm-hot sauce! Makes the brain's endorphins go into overdrive-your body makes its own heroin!
If this beyatch really wanted to punish her kids she's force 'em to sit through that shitty sitcom she starred on. My only consolation is her kids will probably grow up to hate her.
Actually, the worst parent was the one that heard the grandmother tell the daughter not to eat a popsicle. The daughter is allowed to eat the popsicle and then the mother punishes the daughter. The proper intervention is to make sure that the daughter puts the popsicle back, then there is no violence needed. Of course, that moment of tension before the child complied could have required some satisfaction on the wingnut mother's part, that's her problem.
But if you really want to fuck up your kids, ignore all sorts of nasty behaviors on their part, and then come down like a hammer on some minor offenses. It's a blast, and you can even cause dissociative disorders!
Oh my god, what a fucking control freak. I thought her little tale about having to spank the 8 year old for eating the popsicle was quite telling. Using normal child rearing techniques, the vast majority of children would not eat a popsicle after you told them to put it back in the fridge. Obviously her physically punishing the children for every little transgression is not effective. The children are probably to the point now where they're so used to physical abuse that they just way the transgression against the punishment and decide to do it anyway. That woman is sick sick sick. Trying to control everything that comes out of her children's mouths by putting hot sauce on their tongues when she doesn't like what they say.
Interesting post and commentary. I noticed that all the nominations for worst parents are women, though. I would have thought that any partner of these women is equally culpable (if not more in the fundy case where the husband is probably telling the wife what to do), and they should have been nominated, too.
GWPDA - Thanks for the link and the info. I just read Krakauer's book about 10 days ago and it made me furious. Those same bastards in Colorado City who keep marrying little girls think it is doing "God's Work" to have all their multiple wives and children on welfare. Thousands of my tax dollars going to a bunch of child molesters, who also believe incest is doing "God's work." I want them all in prison, every last goddamn one of them (not the girls and their babies; the old men who ruined their lives.)
"A few times, I yelled..."
A few years ago, my sister and I gave our occasionally loud but great dad a tee that says, "I yell because I care!"
Okay, the hot sauce thing is potentially dangerous (and it will probably make her kids hate Tex-Mex, Indian and Szchechuan food for the rest of their lives), but I was SERIOUSLY creeped out by the docile spanking scene.
Welchel spanks an eight year old for popsicle disobedience? AND she has to demonstrate her authority and control over the child by not only physically hurting her, but demanding loyalty oaths and peaceful submission to the pain?
SICK SICK SICK SICK.
And THEN she hugs the kid and murmurs loving words, not only imprinting the insane idea that violence = love in the child's mind, but essentially rewarding her for being an abject, groveling citizen of the Welchel Empire.
It sure as hell isn't the Kingdom of God.
I still vividly remember the 2 times my mother used physical violence to punish me, and I resent it to this day. If she had continued that little parenting innovation, I would have ended up hating her guts permanently. I sure as hell hated them at the time.
Echidne --
I was going to mention that it's usually fathers that ignore their kids until they notice some little transgression and then come down like a ton of bricks. I don't think men get paid to write about creative ways to abuse their children because the underlying dynamic of assult becomes too obvious. Whereas a mom assulting the kids is offset by the presumed nurturing role the mother has.
I live in a fundi area and the fundi
parents are the kind who are always boasting about how obedient their children are and that when they yell "jump", the children ask "how high". So not surprisingly, their children are foulest behaved I have ever seen. But only when their parents are not around. Then they are the most disrespectful and insolent towards adults that I have ever encountered. Good deal of it probably stems from resentment because many fundi parents are the super dominant types who want to control every aspect of their children's lives. Also, many fundis have that "we are saved and everybody else is evil" arrogance which inculcates in their children an attitude that they can treat others with rudeness and cruelty.
"Also, many fundis have that "we are saved and everybody else is evil" arrogance which inculcates in their children an attitude that they can treat others with rudeness and cruelty."
Hmmm, didn't I just read Olasky commenting along these lines whilst explaining that because John Kerry was only 'once saved' he needed to be put down?
Eric U. that's an interesting point you're making. Maybe it's the contrast between expectations and actions more than the actions themselves that seem so bad to us? Though if that's true I'd feel very angry at all the good fathers I have also known.
Need to correct this grammar error:
NOT at all the good fathers
but for all the good fathers
sekmet - well you know the old truisim about preachers' kids, don't you? They are almost always the wildest kids in town.
sekmet - well you know the old truisim about preachers' kids, don't you? They are almost always the wildest kids in town.
That little cliche keeps me worried about when my daughter is going to turn "rebel" on me....
In a normal loving parent child relationship isn't the parents disaproval of the childs action enough of a punishment?
When children are spanked and hot sauced for calling a sibling a cry baby, what the hell type of punishment is metted out if they really misbehave? When such tight control over children's behavior is attempted all transgressions become equal. Murder becomes no worse than back talking in the child's eyes. This is a prescription for raising a sociopath.
Toonie = Canadian two-dollar coin
Robert - Marry off your daughters at age 13. Problem solved. Seriously, you know as well as I do that for every truism there are any number of people who will be the exceptions to it. I suspect you have very little to worry about.
What was really the lamest part of that story was the idea that these people lacked common sense by believing that a popsicle could even come close to ruining a child's appetite.
I've got some in our freezer right now and I can tell you this. My son could have 4-5 of them and it wouldn't amount to more than a half glass of water with some sugar mixxed in. Not that the sugar helps, but we're talking less than a table spoon's worth.
MYOB'
.
When Granny Lisa Whelchel is old and needs to be cared for, I hope dear Haven will put Icy-Hot in Granny Lisa's Depends and Cayenne pepper in Granny Lisa's Polident.
Fuckin' cunt.
Seriously, you know as well as I do that for every truism there are any number of people who will be the exceptions to it. I suspect you have very little to worry about.
Fortunately, she takes after her mother. In both looks, and temperament.
I'm a youngest kid, so by default my parents were pretty lax with me, as opposed to my older siblings, with whom they were pretty strict, especially the oldest.
I remember my eldest sister being punished very harshly (and unjustly, I thought) for something stupid as coming home literally just five minutes late.
Subsequently, she became complete hell on wheels - drugs, skipping school, getting expelled, etc.
I have a hunch that one day, at least one of Lisa's kids is going to snap and shove that hot sauce bottle right down her throat. In fact, I'd bet money on it.
If you teach a child not to do something because otherwise you will visit pain upon them, and you can do this by dint of being bigger, you're not so much teaching them morality, or critical thinking which will lead to ethics, but rape-as-ideology. This becomes particularly stupid when we note that, barring variations in nutrition and the space-time-continuum, you are getting older and weaker and they are growing bigger and stronger.
What?
The capsaicins are alkaloids, meaning an aqueous solution will be besic, not acidic. That is pH alone is the sole or even main determinating factor in ascertaining danger; a couple of drops of con. HCl in a glass of distilled water would be very acidic but not at all dangererous.
As all us hot-sauce connesseurs know, the relative fire is very variable from brand to brand. "The dose makes the poison", as Paracelsus said.
As a non-parent who was on the receiving end of IMHO a bit excessive corporal punishment a few times, I am generally against it.
The passage below is from:
http://www.fiery-foods.com/dave/...e/
capsaicin.asp
Pure capsaicin is so powerful that chemists who handle the crystalline powder must work in a filtered "tox room" in full body protection. The suit has a closed hood to prevent inhaling the powder. Said pharmaceutical chemist Lloyd Matheson of the University of Iowa, who once inhaled some capsaicin accidentally: "It’s not toxic, but you wish you were dead if you inhale it." "One milligram of pure capsaicin placed on your hand would feel like a red-hot poker and would surely blister the skin," said capsaicin expert Marlin Bensinger
btw, if you want to go "hotsaucing" one better by several orders of magnitude, google "figging"....
kei & yuri - since I don't watch Southpark regularly, I can't really say anything about the quality. But I really have to say this: I have found some anti-smoking groups to be as self-righteous and annoying as some fundie christians are. Ok? The people have gotten the message by now - for lo these many years. Everyone can kindly take two steps back now. There is no more smoking in public places anywhere in this country. The non- smokers have gotten their way. They can quit whining.
Aargh! posted on the wrong thread again - that's what happens when the same conversation is taking place in two places at once.
The other thing that struck me about that little story about the popsicle, in addition to what others have already mentioned, is the mother's claim that she has to make sure her eight year old daughter will obey her grandmother every single time because one time the grandmother might say don't eat this because it will make you sick.
Isn't that the most illogical thing you've ever heard? If the child has moderate intelligence, and there's something in the house that would be dangerous for her to eat, the grandmother could just say "Don't eat that, because it will make you sick," and the kid won't eat it. You don't need to spank the kid into blind obedience of everything grandma says to have that result; you just have to use some common sense and treat your child like an intelligent being.
My mother went to school and then to work when I was 8 or 9. My grandmama - my mother's mother - lived with us. She was in charge when my mother couldn't be around. She was also my best friend and ally and when she told me to do something or not to do something I did or I didn't - because I loved her very dearly and I trusted her to look out for me. In terms of hierarchy of the household it was very simple. I had a grandmama/mama who were mine. I was their little person and things were as they should be - sometimes I would be dumb and naughty, but they didn't beat me up or punish me. They corrected my ignorance, they explained what the trouble was and I learnt not to be dumb or naughty. It's pretty simple. Hurting little people is vile. Hurting little people to make oneself feel good is sick. There is no fundamental difference between this crazy woman's assault on her child and Richard Riordan's verbal assault on the little person a few months ago. It doesn't correct the fault and it hurts all concerned. People who hurt little creatures need to be stopped.
oy VEY
what is it with this "respect" shit?
Can't these assholes see that they are training hard-core alienated liars.
Mommy doesn't get respect by virtue (sic) of respectability, but thru terror. So the kid learns that sincerity is the road to ruin--I can THINK mommy is a piece of shit, as long as I successfully lie about my opinion.
This is respect?
I will go to my grave cherishing the time my daughter, then five, said "daddy, you're acting like an asshole..."
Face it--you are going to act like an asshole now and then, who better to hear it from than your kid?
WOC: A Google search of "hot sauce" "child abuse" and "murder" comes up with 145 hits.
RCSanders: A Google search of "ketchup" "child abandonment" and "assault" turns up 802 hits.
Yuk it up, RC.
Googling "hot sauce" "child abuse" murder will indeed produce 145 hits, quite a few of 'em actually about-- unsurprisingly-- hot sauce, child abuse, and subsequent murder.
Googling ketchup "child abandonment" assault, however, produces no matches whatsoever.
Perhaps you got the result you cite because you failed to include quotation marks around the phrase child abandonment.
I would think that it'd be obvious that the quote marks are necessary-- if you actually want to make a good-faith comparison.
Chris:
If we're going to get anal about it, how are you sure that the person who did the original googling and got 145 hits used quotation marks? I read the quotes as denoting the terms used, not as part of the terms themselves. That's generally how quotation marks are used when composing a sentence in English.
If we're going to get anal about it, how are you sure that the person who did the original googling and got 145 hits used quotation marks? I read the quotes as denoting the terms used, not as part of the terms themselves. That's generally how quotation marks are used when composing a sentence in English.
Most search engines (including Google) don't use standard English-language composition rules. Enclosing two or more words in quotation marks will cause Google to treat the entire phrase as a single search term. Omitting quotation marks will cause Google to use every word as a separate search term. For example, doing a Google search on pork pie hats will return approximately 23,700 hits, because Google will turn up any page in its list that includes the words "pork," "pie," or "hats." However, searching for "pork pie hats" returns about 970 hits, because Google returns only pages in which the three words appear in that exact arrangement.
Chris is correct, in so far as Google does not seem to have any articles that mention ketchup, assault, and "child abandonment," when presented to Google in that fashion.
However, there are several pages that turn up when the quotes are omitted, partly because Google will search for word variants like "abandoned" or "abandoning" when a search term is not combined with another in quotation marks. At a glance, these articles mostly seem to describe the victims as being "covered in dried ketchup" and that the kids were eating ketchup because no other food remained in the house.
I hope Lisa saves her royalties from "Facts of Life" to pay for her kids' therapy sessions, they're probably going to need it having a complete psychopath for a mother.
Methinks Lisa should be saving up her royalties for a lawyer, since someone is going to call CPS on her. (I'm obligated to in my state, BTW.)
Isn't it obvious that some of the Jeebus wingnuts who read her works might think that if a drop of hot sauce is good, a tablespoon is better? Or why not some Liquid Plumr? The kid won't sass back if her tongue is burned...
And these fundies grow up to be cops who think that pepper-spraying babies is good police practice.
(Officer Brian Kelly, the Portland police officer who pepper-sprayed the baby in the last link, is a member of a big Jeebus wingnut church in Beaverton, along with Jason Sery, who shot an unarmed man after stopping him for driving while black.
Lisa Whelchel's parenting tips don't just affect her children; if the kids turn into cops, they inflict the same crap on the public, sometimes killing innocent people. I'm sure Lisa can teach the Abu Ghirab torturers a thing or two...
If we're going to get anal about it, how are you sure that the person who did the original googling and got 145 hits used quotation marks?
Through the simple precaution of duplicating the search before posting the comment. Yep, 145 hits; next stop, rocket science.
Incidentally, I can't resist pointing out that you, a childhood hot sauce punishee, apparently believe that to be truthful is to be anal. I'm no behaviorist, but, well, there it is.
Thank you Lisa. Until I read the quotes from you about how you treat your children I did not understand why so many adults stay in abusive relationships and/or feel the need to engage in physically punitive sex. Now I understand completely.
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