I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Frist!
The continual curse of the optimist is that he will always be disappointed.
I remember watching Bush's speech the night of Sept. 11 and thinking, "We are so fucked."
I haven't a clue who Ken Layne is, but one thing's for sure: he's not as dumb as he used to be. Well done, Ken.
Wow.
I didn't think it was possible to get more hateful then Zell Miller's RNC speech until I read Ken Layne's commentary on Zell Miller's speech.
Way to be, man.
Not shrill, A. Passionate. Here's gin in yer eye.
Thrid...
When he read those kids stories on news of the first plane I was furious.
An business friend called up and said he thought it was Osama. He remembered the warnings he gave 5 months earlier and noted no plane would get anywhere near that buidling.
Bush just read stories and played dumb. He was even briefed of worse things.
Leadership on 9-11? Run away, stutter, don't make appearances.
Nowhere to run or hide soon boy. Debate time. Comes a reckoning.
Anon @12:12 - Ken Layne's rant isn't the keynote address of the Republican National Convention.
I have never been a supporter of the Bushites: since before they stole the election. On the day of September11, I cautioned my younger colleague and protege' in the teaching profession that "terrible things would be done." Damn! Right again. But what I do not understand is why people are so ridiculously stupid as to even harbor a thought of supporting these usurpers and cretins. . . . .
Can I have my "forgtin'" pills now?
It would be nice to see regular people offer Zell a duel chance.
He really wants to make his point. Can think of a lot of folks from Walter Reed who would take him up...
I'm thinking that anyone who thinks Mickey Kaus is right about anything is either insane or drunk.
im thinkin that not feeding it would be good
I'm thinking that anyone who thinks Mickey Kaus is right about anything is either insane or drunk.
Raybin
Or both.
I bet there's not a soul from the South who doesn't know Zell Miller's type. Bombastic old farts who have a burr up their ass about something in the modern world. And by God, they do not need facts - they just...know. And they're good and pissed about it.
On the other hand, he could just be Archie Bunker - shined up a bit and sent off to give the keynote address.
I hope to God McCain is right. Because I shudder to think about that kind of lunacy taking over. It's bad enough as it is.
Why Kerry Will Win In November
I don't know Ken Layne but I like him already
Ironically Zell the Dem in one speech exampled the tone and spirit of the Psuedo Republicans as I see them. Again I separate the Republicans from the
Psuedo Republicans. Unfortunately the
real Republicans in general have not
quite caught on to who is representing
them.
Welcome to the house o' shrills!
I been shrill, pretty much nonstop, since 1968.
Except for that mescaline I took one late fall evening outside of Tombstone Arizona. Yeah, I wasn't shrill that night.
Well, I think I've found the candidate to take Zell up on that duel, Akhnaten Spencer-El
well, i think we 10%ers can say-WE TOLD YOU SO!
kissfan, of course kerry will win in november. the question is whether he will be inaugurated in january.
and mr murder is being too hard on bush. after all, bush went to new york several days later and made a speech! no democratic politician would have done that. democrats aren't courageous enough.
I'm thinking that anyone who thinks Mickey Kaus is right about anything is either insane or drunk.
I think you left out "stupid".
IMO but I think many people share it - Mickey Kaus' whole job consists of getting hyerbolic about this thing or that thing and it's almsot always about liberals. He usually spends his time giggling like a 12 year old about Democrats while he usually gives Bush a pass. He had to finally admit he wouldn't vote for him (last I heard) but he'll waste away if he's not snarky about something. Especially if he can work in a tsking moment to Kerry for his "liberalism".
Maybe it's me but..has there every been THIS much excitement about a Time poll? Adn what of the other polls who say it's much closer?
And another thing - what kind of asshole brushes off the Miller ranting and starts whining about Hillary freaking Clinton?
A Mickey Kaus asshole, that's who. Who could take him seriously?
After reading Laynes remarks, I'm more convinced than ever that the only candidate a person of conscience can vote for this year is Ralph Nader.
Let's give our voice of support to those who want to break the stranglehold on our political life, which has suffered so much under the influence of Bush, Kerry and all their hopeless minions.
Carl,
I hope you are a troll, otherwise you are ripe for a snipe hunt.
Shrill? Shrill? Hey, go fuck yourself. How's that for shrill?
Love, Dick.
how has kerry caused our political life to suffer, carl?
Atrios was shrill before it was cool and Zell Miller was cool before he was shrill...
Especially when he that ole "New Democrat" Bill Clinton... :D
You are feeding him now Olaf. Didn't
you ever see the movie Gremlins?
Yeah, Drum's wringing his hands in that "moderate" way he has.
Stands to reason the Monthly would also hire that idiot Ezra...
Gee, Carl, what a swell idea. We'll get four more years of George Bush, but damn, we'll be smug in our aura of flaccid rectitude.
BTW, you want shrill? Try this.
Let's give our voice of support to those who want to break the stranglehold on our political life, which has suffered so much under the influence of Bush, Kerry and all their hopeless minions.
Unka Karl's been rolling out this model browshirt for some time now... never seems to get it quite right, though...
Is this Ken Layne from the outriders the same as the journalist at the Annenburg Center?
If he is, betcha Mojo's proud of him.
And Country Dicks spillin a beer in heaven for him.
Dave,
That button is just not accurate, Bush
wasn't in withdrawl yet, he was still
lapping up the hooch like a pro.
dave,
That's not shrill. This is shrill:
Laura Bush's car has killed more people than Tommy Chong's bong.
lets try that again:
NADER WINS IN A LANDSLIDE
Speaking of standing on a pile of rubble. I've got a copy of the NY Daily News, dated September 15,2001. It's a Special Edition with Bush and that hardhat guy on the cover. I don't really like having it around, but been reluctant to throw it away in case it's a collector's item. Any suggestions?
OT
Kerry needs to defend himself against the cuts in every defense program lie and 87 billion mocking flip flop attacks. I believe those are the most damaging attacks and he must reveal that Cheney wanted many of those weapons programs cut himself as defense secretary. We all know that, but most independants don't.
Also, he must let people know that
the 87 billion bill he voted for and Bush threatened to Veto, was different than the one he voted against. ect.
Just changing the subject to jobs isn't good enough, he must set the record straight.
By the way, where are the surrogates??
Just my opinion and it ain't worth much. Along with $2, it might buy you a gallon of gasoline.
Oh, by the way, Independance from foreign oil by investing in the search for alternative fuels is a BIG
winner with me and most folks. People despise Saudi Arabia.
Karin
Do you have a parrot?
Karin,
Sell it on ebay and give the money to MoveOn.org
The sheer audacity of the GOP still manages to amaze me at times:
A day after President Bush heralded his efforts to help the elderly cope with increased medical expenses, federal officials announced the largest premium increase in dollars in the Medicare program's history, raising the monthly expense by $11.60 to $78.20.
a copy of the NY Daily News, dated September 15,2001
i would make a pattern of it for toilet paper at this point, not because of the tragedy, but because of Bobo with the bullhorn and how he shit all over us by tracking the events of 9/11 into a bullshit war in iraq
Check out the comments under Ken Layne's post.
See fascists type.
Bush wasn't in withdrawl yet, he was still lapping up the hooch like a pro.
Well, I just got my artistic license renewed and I had to take it for a spin...
Laura Bush's car has killed more people than Tommy Chong's bong.
Ha!
here's something i don't understand. in catch-22 there was a character named colonel cathcart who would periodically take stock of how the war was going (not wwii, the war between cathcart and all the other colonels in the army). the way he did it was to make lists of "feathers in his cap"- things that made him look good, and "black eyes"- things that made him look bad.
for some reason george w seems to reckon sept 11, 2001 as a feather in his cap. why is that? any normal person would see it as an obvious black eye.
This is all you need to know about Mickey Kaus, this he writes last night,
"I like Zell Miller, and even more I like the idea of Zell Miller."
This is no longer a political campaign. This is war.
Bush came off all fuzzy last night...but he is a lunatic on a mission from God who has hijacked our nation. All hands on deck.
BTW, true story: I stole that button from a comment on this board (from who, exactly, I can't remember)... since it was "public domain," I thought I'd sell it through MoveOn's Garage Sale last week as a fundraiser and give them the questionable profit. However, when I posted it, I got an email back from them rejecting it. Needless to say, I was a little ticked...
No parrot. I do have to gut fish and dispose of the innards occasionally. But the ebay idea sounds better, thanks.
Apparently I was channeling Bill Maher the other night when I observed the whole theme of the GOP convention was "vote for us because we will make you feel safe."
The answer to that, and it should come from both Kerry and in ads, is "feeling safe" is not being safe, and in fact, it's much worse because it diverts your attention from doing the things that need to be done to really be safe. Such as, funding port security, chemical and nuclear plant security, and first responders. Bush promised to do it, had 3 years to do it, 2 of them while his party controlled the House and Senate, and he didn't do it. Now he says you should vote for him because he makes you feel safe? If you're feeling safe, it's not because of his record - it could only be because of his distortions of it.
Oh, by the way, Independance from foreign oil by investing in the search for alternative fuels is a BIG
winner with me and most folks.
Like this?
Jennifer--And, ironically, they can only pull off that bullshit by constantly making people feel UNsafe, so that they can then suggest that only daddy Bush can protect us from the Evil World.
Been watching video of the siege in
Russia with the school children. This
was on Countdown. It is stunning to
see how out of hand this got, to
grasp the ferocity of the terrorists,
the desperation of the parents and the
impotence of the military to pull this
off clean. (I am not being negative on
the military, simply this went out of
control on them).
Voting for the GOP is like pissing yourself in a blue serge suit. It feels all nice and warm for a while, but in time it just stinks.
Unka Karl's been..... ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Retro vs. Metro : Divided Times Newsletter
if you want to get under the issues battleground state by battleground state, this resource is pretty interesting reading
it helps understand why rethugs control the states that they do; what issues are important in controlling the debate and where the disconnect on the non-rethug message lies
really nice blog too: Retro vs. Metro : Blog
for instance, In last night's speech, Bush claimed a victory for democracy in Afghanistan:
"In Afghanistan, terrorists have done everything they can to intimidate people -- yet more than 10 million citizens have registered to vote in the October presidential election -- a resounding endorsement of democracy."
- Afghans are stockpiling voter cards. A French fry vendor in Kabul described getting 6 voter registration cards, with plans to sell five. He expects to make $1000 from the sale. "... I have met many people who have nine or ten cards," he said.
- Afghanistan President Karzai estimated that as many as 100,000 people have more than one voting card.
I wonder how many voting cards jeb has ready in florida?
any normal person wouldbrZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
If conscience is ALLOWED to dictate a voter's position--and what else ought to?--then many like myself are going to vote Nader. The one and only anti-war candidate who wants to bring home the troops. The one and only candidate actually willing to stand up to the big business/media/big-political party cartels.
Attack all you want. My ethics are going to decide my vote--not "tactics" which at best will trade one corporate stooge for another. Nobody--especially not Kerry, owns my heart, mind or conscience.
"See fascists type."
Thersites
made the mistake of hitting the comments over there and well what Thersites says.
lots of annoyed Kool aid embibers over yonder. Great post though.
Got into the habit earlier of typing
in short columns when Haloscan was
not doing linefeeds properly. Now I
can't get out of the habit.
I
am
concerned
this
may
get
out
of
hand.
Shameless repetition here, but I was feeling creative earlier this evening and whipped this up, an idea for a radio/tv ad or radio bit:
(Sound of knock on door, door opening)
Man's voice: "yes?"
second man(burglar): "yeah, I'm here to rob your home, I was wondering, could you give me a hand loading all your stuff in my van?"
Man: "Why would I do that?"
Burglar: "Well, you know, this is getting to be an unsafe neighborhood. Lots of burglaries around here. See, if you'll help me load up your stuff, when the inevitable happens and someone breaks into your house, they won't be able to steal any of your stuff!"
Man: "Hey, when you put it that way, it makes a lot of sense! Hang on a minute and let me put on my shoes, and I'll give you a hand."
Woman's voice from background: "Honey, who is it?"
Man: "Oh, it's just a burglar, asking if I can help him load all our stuff in his van. I'm gonna be helping him for a little while."
Woman's voice, closer: "What?!"
Man: "Well, he was just explaining how if he takes the stuff now, there won't be anything here to steal when someone breaks into the house."
Woman, now very close: "Oh honey, what are you thinking? Helping this guy take our stuff would be like voting for Bush and Cheney."
Man: "What do you mean?"
Woman: "Don't you remember how I told you about how Bush and Cheney gave $50 billion in no-bid contracts to their supporters for rebuilding Iraq, and the massive fraud that's been uncovered? Or how about the Medicare prescription drug benefit, worth $400 billion to the pharmaceutical companies but providing little help to senior citizens?"
Man: "Well, yes. There's no way I'd vote for those guys. But how is this the same?"
Woman: "Honey, it's exactly the same. Bush and Cheney want us to be afraid of something that could happen in the future, so we won't notice how they're hurting us right now. It's bad enough that they're stealing from us to give to their friends, but it's even worse that they don't even try to hide it. And absolutely unforgiveable that they try to keep people in fear so they can get away with it."
Man: "hey, you're right! It IS exactly the same!"
Burglar: "Could we just get on with it? I'm on a schedule here...
Man: "Forget it! I'm not going to help you steal what's mine, and I'm not going to let you steal what's mine! I won't let Bush and Cheney punk me, and I'm not gonna get punk'd by you either!"
(Sound of door slamming)
Narrator: Don't get punk'd. Register. Vote. For your future and your family's future.
I probably don't have the numbers right, but you get the idea.
CONSPIRACY THEORIES
it is the damndest thing. if i assemble photos and dimensions of the pentagon, the airliner, and conclude that the evidence refutes the story of any 757 commercial airliner colliding with that bit of terrain, i should be accused of being some kind of mad dog conspiracy theorist and must be shunned. two days ago, bill o'really, on his radio show, said that, in no uncertain terms, anyone questioning the official story of 11 September 2001 should be ostracized - committed to an asylum.
on the other hand, it seems to be quite OK with o'really for the speaker of the house, dennis hastert, to utter some of the most extraordinary bit of nonsensical conspiracy paranoia in the history of the era. concerning george soros.
i at least have photos of the post-collision pentagon that strongly support my argument.
dennis hastert has no evidence to support his assertions concerning george soros. what he said was wholly fictional. over the top. dennis must be related to zell miller.
how is it then that you hear no one in the media, certainly not bill o'really, calling him a raving lunatic for his conspiracy allegations?
and then there is this harpy who writes on latin american affairs for the wall street journal. MARY ANASTASIA O'GRADY. spend some time reading her columns. she spouts conspiracies involving jimmy carter, hugo chavez, and a cast of hundreds as if she is a humpback whale exhaling.
and making her allegations, she has less evidence than i do concerning my assertion that no 757 collided with the pentagon.
still, i don't hear anyone at the wsj or elsewhere in the media labeling her a conspiracy theorist in a pejorative way.
why is that?
and don't even get me started on the conspiracy orchestrated from the white house to smear john kerry's war record. let us just leave it that there are more provable linkages of the bush regime's orchestration of the shifties smearing prevarications
of john kerry than either dennis hastert or mary o'fuck the truth can proffer in support of their smears...their assertions of anti-bush, anti-USA conspiracies.
concluding, clearly there are some conspiracy theories that are politically correct: countenanced by the establishment. yea, even relished by the establishment.
and then there are those other investigations that the establishment does not welcome. those investigations are labeled and derided as conspiracy theories in the most pejorative of terms.
some citizens don't recognize this double-standard. most of you do, i am sure. but for all of those out there who don't, perhaps you can clarify their thinking.
find the bastids and pile on,
... many like myself are going to vote Nader.
Good. Splitting the idiot vote takes 'em away from the Drunken Fratboy Coward.
Nobody--especially not Kerry, owns my heart, mind or conscience.
I'm Karl Rove. I bought and paid for this message.
Dude, I was soooooooooo shrill before you..
May I just point out that the phrase "Nobody, especially not" is logically meaningless and devoid of content.
Jennifer--And, ironically, they can only pull off that bullshit by constantly making people feel UNsafe, so that they can then suggest that only daddy Bush can protect us from the Evil World.
rorschach
Yeah. "Vote for me, and I'll set you free! Sound like a deal? OK, you're under arrest..."
then many like myself are going to vote Nader.
If Nero is allowed another four years, you'll be put on a train just like the rest of us.
albert- WSJ is subscription only but I'll take your word for it. Glad to see you are well, were you laying low during the convention?
albert- WSJ is subscription only but I'll take your word for it. Glad to see you are well, were you laying low during the convention?
anonymous, if you're bored you can leave.
WorkingForChange-RMC: Real Men Convention: Great Review of the Amerikkkan Fascist Party gala in NYC
To wit: In times of anxiety, many do gravitate to a very traditional, even archetypal image of male strength. Whatever the gender jokes, it isn't just men. There are also women in the passenger seat who are only comfortable with a man who behaves as if he knows where he's going.
Leadership in itself is neither good nor bad. The paradox of leadership is that the skills can be utterly disconnected from the goals. You can be led by Hannibal -- there was a guy with an elephant problem -- straight into the mountains.
But Bush's leadership is paradoxical for another reason. He's seen as unwavering because he simply disavows any turns in the road. In a powerful acceptance speech rife with distortions, the same resolute, persevering, backboned president who went into Iraq claiming weapons of mass destruction now defends the war as one of liberation. In Bush's head, al Qaeda and Saddam are still connected. And anyone who worries that Iraq is breeding more terrorists than it had to begin with is suffering from what Zell Miller called “analysis paralysis.”
My father used to describe a friend as “often wrong, but never in doubt.” On the last day of the convention, Dick Cheney described his friend to a breakfast of Ohio delegates as “decisive.”
“He doesn't waffle, he doesn't agonize,” said the vice president. “That's exactly what we need in a president. We don't need indecision or confusion.”
Well, I am sure that Dick Cheney isn't asking me for directions. But guess what? It's not George Bush's decisiveness that's the problem. It's his decisions.
albert champion
Hear Hear !!!
I have been thinking about that all day
long. Kerry in his own right should be
able to cast enough doubt on this
administration and its various players
with facts and sound nalysis. Instead
I see him playing a game of rhetoric
and damage control. He needs to do
plain speaking. Cut the election
nuanced talk and get down to the facts
. Tell us in concise terms what he is
going to do, a thumbnail of how he will
implement it. Then move on to the
connections, scandals, probes, and
conflict of interests that typify
this administration. Go back and ask
those questions we have been asking
since 1999. And call a deflection or
a decoy just that.
decisiveness is only a virtue if you make good decisions. bush doesn't.
Friday's bad news release:
A day after President Bush heralded his efforts to help the elderly cope with increased medical expenses, federal officials announced the largest premium increase in dollars in the Medicare program's history, raising the monthly expense by $11.60 to $78.20.
OOPS, I see someone beat me to it...sorry!
EkCenTrik--That would be just bloody fantastic. I would love to hear some actual anti-corporate vision come out of all this.
The GOP crony capitalists have pushed it so fucking far with Halliburton and Enron and the lot that we need, desperately need, a populist backlash to remind us that PEOPLE are the people. Corporations are not.
We do not need a gov't that serves the corporations, but one that protects the individual from corporate power.
I don't expect to hear all that, but I'd love to, even in diluted form.
We need a new trustbuster.
The wingnut web-crawlers are already starting to speculate that Clinton staged his heart attack to draw attention from Bush's campaign...no shit.
There is a solid core of GOPers in this country who would be out there forming lynch mobs if they thought they could get away with it.
Zell Miller is just this year's Halloween mask for the losers, haters and loons.
rorschach
Absolutely. ANd I wish someone could
get the mem BCCI out in the mix as
well. I was talking to my crew today
and they have not a clue. To me the
little I know so far, it is almost a
concordance of cronies and bad
behavior.
Damn can't type.
Why, oh why, can't Kerry kick the republicans in the nuts, as they
are so skilled at doing to him. Instead he's out on a goddamn wind surboard or skiing or cycling. What a
stupid, unfocussed campaign he's running. As Bill Maher noted tonight,
maybe he borrow Dukakis's tank. Fuck
the swing voters. There in for the attention anyway. Go for the RED MEAT.
If Kerry doesn't fight back NOW he'll
be toast in November.
>real Republicans in general have not
Naww, I disagree. The conservatives know full well who they are in bed with and accept a fake conservative over a democract any. day. of. the. week. They'll saddle up with theocrats, quasi-fascists, empire builders, etc over hot button issues (or issue) or just to stick it to the dems.
The irony here is that the dems have make a pretty straight forward march to the right where a conservative would be much more at home with Kerry or even Clinton than with Bush. Take pride, the culture war, obsession with Jesus, the love of war/flexing muscle, and a general apathy for all things domestic and they will cast their vote for Bush with a giant grin, even if he stands for nothing they stand for.
Please excuse all the grammatical errors in my last post - I just had
surgery today and am a little loopy.
Not that I'm too comatose to hate the
chimperor, however.
Shame we can't get Kerry to read
Atrios directly. He might I guess,
but no clue. Heck he is Ex-Navy so
the language should be okay for him
as well.
As Bill Maher noted tonight,
maybe he borrow Dukakis's tank.
Yeah, whatever.
EkCenTrik--BCCI? What's that? I thought Kerry didn't do anything in the Senate for all these years, right? That's what Fox told me, and I believes it.
Q: What's the difference between
Zell Miller and a used condom?
A: A used condom contains some
humanity.
rorschach
Exactly
I stand dumb founded everytime I talk
to someone who is being screwed over
by this president and they see him as
helping them.
The almost retired reservist who may
or may not face financial devastation
if he is activated.
The retired troop who needs the medical care he was promised and
he doesn't understand his benefit is
slowly being leached away.
The co-worker who sees nothing from
Kerry but can't see that this admin
is peeling away minority assistance,
child medical care, education and
jobs. He needs to do better but has
no where to go since there are no
jobs. his living expenses are up, he
is in bankruptcy and he still has to
vote for Bush.
It is nuts.
don't know anything about key layne, but in the comments section, tweety comes in for some whup ass:
"Listen: I was born in Little Rock, Arkansas. You people can sit around and beat Miller's ass over that Dixiecrat jazz, and you're not going to get one single complaint from me.
But know this Chris Matthews is a fucking punk who needs his ass kicked roundly, and I was cheering Miller every step of the way. None of it had anything to do with the stuff you guys have been complaining about. They are categorically distinct matters. And I have said for a long time that people would be a lot more responsible about what they have to say if they knew they might be challenged to account for it in their own blood. It's about time someone took a step toward putting Matthews in his place, that rotten dizzy shitbag. I've been waiting for someone to do this to him for a long, long time."
The far right extremists of reeRepublic.com, WSJ.com, Nazi.com, and KKK.com finally get it together and overthrow the government. Then they start rounding up politicians to execute.
A firing squad is convened and Al Gore, Bill Clinton and George W. Bush are all marched to a wall to be shot.
As the right wing nuts are loading their guns Al Gore thinks, "I've got to cause a diversion so I can get away." He yells "Oh, no. A TORNADO" and points behind the firing squad. As the ultraconservative fruitcakes turn around to see if there is a tornado approaching, Al Gore jumps over the wall behind him and runs away.
The firing squad turns their attention back to the two men who are left. Clinton quickly observes how well Gore's ruse has worked and yells "EARTHQUAKE". As the firing squad frantically looks for a place to take cover Clinton jumps over the wall and he too escapes.
The firing squad resumes their stance and proceeds to take aim at George W. Bush. Dubya, believing that he, too, can create a diversion, frantically searches his mind for another natural disaster to use. Smiling to himself, he yells "FIRE
=============
Have to admit, after watching Matthews
on TDS, I thought he was pretty much
a tubby know it all with absolutely no
concept that his is not cool. Sort of made me think of Ralphie Wiggums grown up.
Wait, did I just describe myself? Hell
finally a reason to find a therapist.
"We need a new trustbuster."
Would you settle for Eliot Spitzer?
"As Bill Maher noted tonight..."
Cheney Bill Maher, he's a fifth columnist.
Q: What's the difference between Zell Miller and the Hindenburg?
A: One is a flaming Nazi gas-bag while the other is a Zeppelin.
Anonymous
That got a wicked snicker out of me.
oh, i was around. you just missed my posts.
here is one that i was proud of...can you sign onto it?
what is happening in this country concerning this issue of a man's officially untarnished military service to his country?
how is it that anyone can countenance a bunch of republican stooges prevaricating to the extent that they insult the honor of all servicemen who were/have been awarded the bronze star with valor device, the silver star, and the purple heart.
let there be no misunderstanding, though one may prefer to commit fealty to draft dodgers and deserters, if you decide to believe the lying scum that the bush regime hired to smear john kerry, then you have decided to smear all those men who invested their lives in the service of the united states of america.
as a member of the usmc, i have my heros. maj. gen smedley darlington butler [2x winner of the MOH, last two-timer by the way] and general david monroe shoup [commandant of the corp, winner of the MOH at Tarawa]. just as an aside, both of these heros became public opponents of the politicians who sacrificed american lives for political purposes. butler wrote a book entitled WAR IS A RACKET. it is a must read. he identified the investment bankers that sent him, and other marines, into central america and mexico to protect their financial interests. oddly enough, one of the firms that he identified was the firm in which Prescott Sheldon Bush
[ george's grandad, who also lied about his military service] was a partner - Brown Bros. Harriman.
by rank and by honors, butler should have become commandant of the usmc. but there was this republican president by the name of herbert hoover. the president who called out doug macarthur and the army to run down, like tsarist cossacks, the bonus marchers[veterans] who had come to DC seeking the bonuses they had been promised for fighting in WW1. butler opposed publicly hoover's decision. for that opposition, hoover denied him the honor of commandant which he deserved. butler resigned from the usmc.
david shoup is a more recent marine corps hero. a man of exquisite honor and courage. and infrequently remembered. if you don't know of him, google his name.
where butler was awarded his MOH's in the defense of new york city investment bankers in the little wars[haiti, mexico] of empire in the early years of the twentieth century, shoup won his MOH at Tarawa in our battles against the japanese in WW2.
shoup became commandant of the corps during the kennedy administration. i think that the record reveals that he was an opponent of the investment of american servicemen into southeast asia[vietnam]. after kennedy's assassination, shoup's term as commandant expired. lyndon johnson worked very hard to get shoup to submit to a second term as commandant[so as to claim that shoup approved of johnson's machinations to expand the seasian war] but shoup was one of the few who spurned lbj's pressuring. he retired.
however, i
Here's what I think:
We too had many pretty toys when young;
A law indifferent to blame or praise,
To bribe or threat; habits that made old wrong
Melt down, as it were wax in the sun’s rays;
Public opinion ripening for so long
We thought it would outlive all future days.
O what fine thought we had because we thought
That the worst rogues and rascals had died out.
All teeth were drawn, all ancient tricks unlearned,
And a great army but a showy thing;
What matter that no cannon had been turned
Into a ploughshare? Parliament and king
Thought that unless a little powder burned
The trumpeters might burst with trumpeting
And yet it lack all glory; and perchance
The guardsmen’s drowsy chargers would not prance.
Now days are dragon-ridden, the nightmare
Rides upon sleep: a drunken soldiery
Can leave the mother, murdered at her door,
To crawl in her own blood, and go scot-free;
The night can sweat with terror as before
We pieced our thoughts into philosophy,
And planned to bring the world under a rule,
Who are but weasels fighting in a hole.
however, in his retirement, he was a public opponent to the johnson regime's efforts to expand the investment [men, material, and money] of the usa into seasia [vietnam]. it goes without saying that shoup's opposition went unreported by that supposedly liberal press.
i relate these ignored episodes of history because the warmongers want you to believe that only erstwhile traitors [ or traitors] oppose the military adventuring of the united states of america. will anyone assert that MOH winners are traitors?
will anyone assert that these two MOH winners earned their awards by deception? that they were never brave, valorous men acting in the service of the united states of america?
will anyone assert that the publicly pronounced insights, by these two marine MOH winners, into the realities of draft-dodging civilians/ awol residents peacocking their warrior plumage, is treason?
i would think not.
however, sunshine patriots do wave the bloody flag and invest others to die in unnecessary bloodshed. the sunshine patriots of this era should be recognized. here are some of their names...
george walker bush
richard cheney
tom delay
newt gingrich
rudy giuliani
george pataki
mitt romney
rusty "rush" limbaugh
bill o'reilly
sean hannity
mike savage
dan patrick
undoubtedly there are many others of the republican persuasion who care to kill. kill american servicemen. and kill the noncombatants who become the victims of our domestic "macho" politics.
god will sort it out. you see those names that i have listed. all of them will have to get comfortable with eternal fire. they are damned forever for their homicidal ways.
continuing, it is my recollection that medals, ribbons were not disbursed casually in the vietnam era. contrast that era's medalling with what reagan did for those brave soldiers assaulting the street gangsters of grenada and what ghwbush did for the braves who assaulted the street gangsters of iraq. if my memory serves me correctly, thousands of medals were awarded by those rethugs to troops who had done nothing other than attending the carnage. a carnage that was imposed on the most ineffectual bunch of combatants that the usa had ever confronted in its history.
i urge that this hypothetical be considered....
pretend that kerry served his time in the navy winning no medals for valor, earning no purple hearts. like most of his crewmen. like virtually all of the shifties.
then what you could say about his time in the service would be this....
1. every day of his life for that interval of service, he got up, put on his uniform, took orders, issued orders.
HE SHOWED UP. AND HE SHOWED UP FOR DUTY EACH AND EVERY DAY.
that means that he attended daily formations. that means he did all the daily tasks that are required of junior officers in any branch of the armed forces.
a lot of grind. no glamor.
furthermore, anyone willing to spend time on a usn ship endured privations and
I stand dumb founded everytime I talk
to someone who is being screwed over
by this president and they see him as
helping them.
I imagine you've already seen this, but it so perfectly epitomizes the masochism you are talking about that I'll mention it again (I'm rather surprised this never got front page here at Atrios):
Seems the president has finally decided to privately meet with families of soldiers killed in Iraq. And it sure is odd what Karl Rove claims grieving parents say to the man who sent their kids to war, in private:
"At one recent stop, outside Green Bay, Wis., the parents of a slain 18-year-old soldier asked to meet with Bush on behalf of four other families who had a relative die in Iraq. Their message? 'We're praying for you and we're going to give you a medal that represents our gratitude for your leadership of our country and for what you did for our son,' recounted Rove ..."
A medal for what you did for our son. No comment required, except to note that the same Washington Post article also points to increasing disillusionment among military families with the war in Iraq.
I stand dumb founded everytime I talk
to someone who is being screwed over
by this president and they see him as
helping them.
I imagine you've already seen this, but it so perfectly epitomizes the masochism you are talking about that I'll mention it again (I'm rather surprised this never got front page here at Atrios):
Seems the president has finally decided to privately meet with families of soldiers killed in Iraq. And it sure is odd what Karl Rove claims grieving parents say to the man who sent their kids to war, in private:
"At one recent stop, outside Green Bay, Wis., the parents of a slain 18-year-old soldier asked to meet with Bush on behalf of four other families who had a relative die in Iraq. Their message? 'We're praying for you and we're going to give you a medal that represents our gratitude for your leadership of our country and for what you did for our son,' recounted Rove ..."
A medal for what you did for our son. No comment required, except to note that the same Washington Post article also points to increasing disillusionment among military families with the war in Iraq.
heh. old blond joke.
Sigh... Nader voters: people who think citizenship can exist in a vacuum.
furthermore, anyone willing to spend time on a usn ship endured privations and discomforts that those who have never been on one cannot imagine. especially on a ship in the tropics. even for a junior officer. had he never escaped the gridley, he would have exhibited more of a "stick-toitiveness" than the weekend warrior air guardsman that was george walker bush, the resident.
when kerry decided to run little boats on the mekong, in the delta, he made a decision to flirt with sudden death on a daily basis. well over 60% of the servicemen sent to vietnam never encountered that level of risk. most of them served as remfs[rear echelon motherfuckers].
every time[every day] that kerry took that little boat out on the waters of the delta, he was closer to death from small arms fire than any other man serving in that theater.
consider, the delta was filled with opponents to the american invaders. the little boats were fabricated from aluminum, i think. there was no armor.
i always considered them the most vulnerable of all the vehicles in the theater. if you got caught in a fire fight, you are all alone. defenseless. you really couldn't call in arty to assist you because there were no artillery bases near you.
and the delta was filled with the vietnamese freedom fighters.
the bravest drivers in the theater were the swift boat crews, the chopper crews, and the forward aircraft controller crews. bravest because they were way out front sitting ducks who could be taken out by small arms fire.
so, no matter whether he ever won a medal, ever won a purple heart, john kerry was one of the most courageous individuals in the vietnam theater of operations.
and that any someone would dispute that indicates that such a someone is a scumbag and knows nothing about exposing your life to sudden death on a daily basis.
contrast kerry's service to that of the resident...
1. gwbush did not have to show up for any duty on a daily basis. he was a weekend warrior. when he showed up.
2. gwbush never had to encounter anyone shooting at him.
3. gwbush never had to deal with c-rats.
4. gwbush never had to be in the boonies living in hard quarters in the tropics.
5. gwbush never had to take orders involving life and death issues..never had to issue orders involving life and death issues.
6. gwbush never had to deal with latrines.
7. gwbush could always go back to his apartment during his country club adventures in the airguard. and did, of course.
8. gwbush could always go down the street and buy whatever groceries he wanted.
9. gwbush could always pass the night away at a houston honky-tonk.
and still, with that well-cushioned style of military service, gwbush, the resident, ducked his obligations.
and for reasons that i shall never understand, there are too many giving him a "bye" for his defiance of the orders requiring him to take his flight physical.
and a "bye" for all those months that he refused to re
Bill Maher's closing "New Rule" on Real Time should be the next Kerry-Edwards commercial...Bush standing on the shoulders of the dead is not heroic.
As Bill Maher noted tonight,
maybe he can borrow Dukakis's tank.
i am glad to report that the only the
thing that kerry and dukakis share is
the letter "k" in their last names; as it went
zig zag zell probably ignited something
in the middle ground of the electorate
i have spoken to lots of folks who were
on the fence and are now clearly on our
side since amerikkka's first nationally
televised klan rally this week
all kerry has to do is this: tie the knot between the distortions of pre-war
intelligence and how bobo's "decisiveness"
has corrupted our economy and how bold
misjudgements have placed us in future
danger; and how economic terrorism is
at our doorstep because of the decisions
that have been made; he needs to speak
it concisely and use the cronyism of the
bush family as his blackboard; it sounds
more complicated than it is and the royal
saudi family comment was exactly the
right start; it resonates with people
because it starts with a very real premise
that every american deals with more than
they should - rising gas prices and our
utter dependence on foreign fuel - which
is why Michael Moore has a bigger and
more powerful voice than your average
US congressman; he keeps it simple, stupid
and for reasons that i shall never understand, there are too many giving him a "bye" for his defiance of the orders requiring him to take his flight physical.
and a "bye" for all those months that he refused to report for his country club duty.
george walker bush was a deserter. not only irresponsible, but criminal, in his fulfillment of his military contract to the united states of america.
i want to conclude by asking this question...
by what means is the rnc and the bush family paying off the media to ignore the realities that i have just enumerated?
no intellectually honest observer could fail to make the tally that i have identified concerning the fratboy -vs- the warrior. why don't you see what i have said in your newspaper? on your television? on your radio?
here is the record of a real patriot. it is not the record of the 5X draft dodger, dick cheney. it is not the record of the 7x draft dodger john ashcroft. it is not the record of the draft dodger, former speaker of the house, newt gingrich. it is not the record of the draft dodgers elliot abrams, paul wolfowitz, richard perle. it is not the record of the draft dodger tom delay. and somehow, i think that there are even more leaders of the republican party that ducked their obligations to serve in the military. what can you call them? hypocrites? traitors?
most glaringly, it is not the record of the bushson who had strings pulled for him so that he could avoid real service. in spite of those favors, the bushson, the resident, still became a derelict, becoming awol if not commiting desertion. personally, i think his discharge was another politically motivated gift if the papers that have been proffered are not forgeries. but i think he actually received a dishonorable discharge.
now, here are the records of a man who fulfilled his obligations to the USA on a daily basis, for more than 4 months.
John Kerry's Vietnam Service Timeline
February 18, 1966
Kerry formally enlists in the U.S. Navy
August 22, 1966
Kerry reports for Naval Officer Candidate School at the U.S. Naval Training Center in Newport, Rhode Island
December 16, 1966
Kerry receives commission as an Ensign
January 3, 1967
Kerry reports for duty at the Naval Schools Command at Treasure Island (CA)-Takes 10 week Officer Damage Control Course
March 22, 1967
Reports to U.S. Fleet Anti-Air Warfare Training Center (CA). Receives training as a Combat Information Center Watch Officer.
June 8, 1967
Kerry reports to USS Gridley-serves in several capacities
February 9, 1968
USS Gridley departs for a Western Pacific (WESTPAC) deployment, to engage in operations in support of the Vietnam War. Ship spends time in the Gulf of Tonkin off North Vietnam, at Subic Bay in the Philippines and in Wellington, New Zealand
February 10, 1968
Kerry requests duty in Vietnam He lists his first preference for a position as an officer in charge of a Swift Boat (designated
February 10, 1968
Kerry requests duty in Vietnam He lists his first preference for a position as an officer in charge of a Swift Boat (designated PCF for Patrol Craft Fast), his second as an officer in a patrol boat (designated PBR, for Patrol Boat River) squadron
May 27, 1968
USS Gridley sets sail for the US
June 6, 1968
Kerry arrives in Long Beach the day after Senator Robert F. Kennedy is killed in Los Angeles
June 16, 1968
Kerry promoted to Lieutenant, Junior Grade
July 20, 1968
Kerry leaves Gridley for specialized training at the Naval Amphibious Base in Coronado, CA in preparation for service as commander of a Swift Boat. These unarmored, but heavily armed, fifty foot aluminum hulled patrol boats depended on speed and agility when engaging the enemy.
November 17, 1968
Upon completion of his training, Kerry reports for duty to Coastal Squadron 1, Coastal Division 14, Cam Ranh Bay, South Vietnam.
December 1968
through January 1969
Kerry commands PCF-44
December 2, 1968
Kerry experiences first intense combat; receives first combat related injury.
December 6, 1968
Kerry moved to Coastal Division 11 at An Thoi on Phu Quoc Island
December 13, 1968
Kerry moved to Coastal Division 13, Cam Ranh Bay
December 24, 1968
Kerry involved in combat during the Christmas Eve truce of 1968. The truce was three minutes old when mortar fire exploded around Lieutenant Kerry and his five-man crew. Reacting swiftly, John Kerry and his crew silenced the machine gun nest.
January 22, 1969
Kerry and other Swift boat commanders travel to Saigon for meeting with Adm. Elmo Zumwalt, Commander Naval Forces Vietnam (COMNAVFORV), and Gen. Creighton Abrams, Commander United States Military Assistance Command Vietnam (COMUSMACV)
Late January, 1969
Kerry joined his 5 man crew on PCF-94
Late January through
Early March, 1969
Starting in late January 1969, this crew completed 18 missions over an intense and dangerous 48 days, almost all of them in the dense jungles of the Mekong Delta. Kerry's crew included engineman Eugene Thorson, later an Iowa cement mason; David Alston, then the crew's only African-American and today a minister in South Carolina; petty officer Del Sandusky of Illinois; rear gunner and quartermaster Michael Medeiros of California; and the late Tom Belodeau, who joined the crew fresh out of Chelmsford High School in Massachusetts. Others rotated in and out of the crew. The most intense action came during an extraordinary eight days of more than 10 firefights, remembered by Kerry's crew as the "days of hell."
February 20, 1969
Kerry and crew involved in combat; Kerry receives second combat injury – Kerry earned his second Purple Heart after sustaining a shrapnel wound in his left thigh.
February 28, 1969
For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action while serving with Coastal Division ELEVEN engaged in armed conflict with Viet Cong insurgents i
EkCenTrik,
I agree - John Kerry's role in investigating BCCI is an important aspect of his Senate record. I'm surprised his campaign managers have not proudly used it to distinguish his
record from the dumbya's. I'm sorry, I
just can't get too excited about how
Kerry has fougt lately,although today he finally gave it good to Dickhead Cheney.
February 28, 1969
For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action while serving with Coastal Division ELEVEN engaged in armed conflict with Viet Cong insurgents in An Xuyen Province, Republic of Vietnam, on 28 February 1969. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as Officer in Charge of Patrol Craft Fast 94 and Officer in Tactical Command of a three-boat mission. As the force approached the target area on the narrow Dong Cung River, all units came under intense automatic weapons and small arms fire from an entrenched enemy force less than fifty-feet away. Unhesitatingly, Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry ordered his boat to attack as all units opened fire and beached directly in front of the enemy ambushers. The daring and courageous tactic surprised the enemy and succeeded in routing a score of enemy soldiers. The PCF gunners captured many enemy weapons in the battle that followed. On a request from U.S. Army advisors ashore, Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry ordered PCFs 94 and 23 further up river to suppress enemy sniper fire. After proceeding approximately eight hundred yards, the boats again were taken under fire from a heavily foliated area and B-40 rocket exploded close aboard PCF-94; with utter disregard for his own safety and the enemy rockets, he again ordered a charge on the enemy, beached his boat only ten feet from the VC rocket position, and personally led a landing party ashore in pursuit of the enemy. Upon sweeping the area an immediate search uncovered an enemy rest and supply area which was destroyed. The extraordinary daring and personal courage of Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry in attacking a numerically superior force in the face of intense fire were responsible for the highly successful mission. His actions were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.
March 13, 1969
For heroic achievement while serving with Coastal Division ELEVEN engaged in armed conflict with Viet Cong communist aggressors in An Xuyen Province, Republic of Vietnam, on 13 March 1969. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as Officer in Charge of Patrol Craft Fast 94, one of five boats conducting a SEA Lords operation in the Bay Hap River. While exiting the river, a mine detonated under another Inshore Patrol Craft and almost simultaneously, another mine detonated wounding Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry in the right arm. In addition, all units began receiving small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks. When Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry discovered he had a man overboard, he returned upriver to assist. The man in the water was receiving sniper fire from both banks. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain and with disregard for his safety, he pulled the man aboard. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry then directed his boat to return and assist the other damaged boat to safety. Li
it isn't listed here, but for another bunch of years, 6-7, i think that john forbes kerry maintained a role in the usn reserve.
again, he continued to show up. continued to honor his contract to his country.
so, i leave it to you this way.....with these questions that i would like to have answered....
way is it that the republicans applaud desertion? why is it that the republicans honor draft dodging?
why is it that the republicans attack valorous service?
why is it that the republicans enshrine the draft dodger of the pylonidal cyst, rush limbaugh?
why is it that the republicans applaud all the draft dodgers and besmirch the serving patriot, john forbes kerry?
why are the republicans traitors? and why are their treasons ignored by the media?
i want to know.
don't you?
albert champion--this is a place for commenting and chatting. Lay off the enormously long posts.
karin asked...
http://www.on101.com/dishonor2/
especially when the republican party's draft-dodging, deserting leadership has put thousands of american service men in harm's way unnecessarily.
i'm not up on the afghan figures, but iraq is 1,000 -3,000 dead. why the uncertainty as to the exact number, you ask? because the bush/rumsfield dod has changed the rules for identifying deaths. for instance, in the bush/rumsfeld scheme you are only to be counted as dead if you died immediately. and died as the result of a missile[small arms fire for sure, perhaps shrapnel]. so, if you are shot and fail to die at the site at that time, but die later[either on the way to the hospital or at the hospital] you are not listed as a combat death.
if an individual is not counted as a combat death, by the way, that individual's demise is going unattributed as of this date. only the individual serviceman's family will know that the individual has expired as the result of the bush regime having sent that individual to iraq. for bulk of the american citizenry, that death will not be revealed to them.
so, too, if an infantryman was a passenger in an unarmored humvee when the driver took a hit. then after having lost the driver's control, the humvee rolled over and broke the infantryman's neck, killing him, the infantryman would not be listed as a combat death.
this is the vilest form of public relations - intended to hide from the american public the real numbers of american troops killed by the virtually traitorous actions of the prevaricators of the bush regime.
it is for this reason that observers have been prevented by the bush regime from witnessing the returning coffins at dover afb[central clearing point for graves registration]. anyone who could observe and count on a daily basis would realize very quickly that the bush pentagon has been committing a massive fraud on the citizens of the united states.
equally as vile, and treasonable, have been the bush regime's concerted efforts to hide from the american citizenry the numbers of the wounded, and the nature of their wounds. the unofficial "official" figures are approximately 7,000.
my research informs me that a more accurate figure is closer to 15,000 - 20,000. with close to 40% of the wounds being of the maiming variety[loss of limbs, loss of vision, etc].
and that is just for american troops engaged in the iraq invasion. the afghan op kia, wia figures seem to be more deeply hidden. perhaps that is because there are european troops[the bundesrepublik for sure, even french troops may be in afghanistan] involved in that country.
as a sidelight, what makes the bush regime even more despicable is that while the military actions that the bush regime activated are ongoing, bush has been cutting veteran benefits. this seems to occur without any scrutiny. or any outrage from those who know that this is part of the bush regime's plan to destroy the us military.
i could c
Albert the information is interesting
but can you post a link t the material?
Those posts are a bit long to keep it
together.
i could continue, but in closing, i want to consider the vilest american politician in recent years. even makes tom delay looks benign and honest. that is ZELL MILLER.
i cannot imagine how any former marine could lionize draft dodgers and a deserter over an honestly-serving american in a "hot" war zone. how zigzag could so thoroughly FLIP-FLOP over the encomiums he pronounced concerning john kerry just a few years ago. to be kind,
i can only think that miller has problems. such as....
1. he is a crystal meth mainliner. he has a jones and needs rehab.
2. he is into that white powder that bush sold, and used, for most of his life. the bush regime is his connection. the bush regime gave him some before his speech, he did a couple of lines, and the rush put him over the edge.
3. he has been eating too much of bush beef and is in the early stages of bovine spongiform encephalopathy[mad cow disease, hereinafter to be called mad zell disease].
4. he has been out of his white robes and white hood for too long. he was experiencing kluxer withdrawl.
5. he is applying for employment with the carlyle group. and he needs the job.
6. the bush regime has pictures of zell with little boys or with goats.
7. all of the above.
I must say one reason I'm so damn mad at Bush is that I wasn't shrill for a long time. I hated the way Republicans never gave Clinton a chance - so I wanted to avoid that. I put my problems about the way Bush was elected aside. I gave him the benefit of the doubt.
And then I started over after 9/11. But it didn't take long to feel kicked in the teeth. And partiularly with the war, and the Republican pretense that criticism was unpatriotic..wel, what a set uo for horror we have going here. I could add an endless list of things I feel disappointed and betrayed about.
And after the Swift Boat smear, Zell's rant and Bush's own speech - I realize I didn't give him enough credit. He's not really stupid in the traditional sense. But he's only really smart about being mean.
i could continue, but in closing,
May I just suggest as a rule of thumb that if you ever say those words, you've gone on rather too long for a comments board?
Bush standing on the shoulders of the dead is not heroic
the bush texas mafia has been doing it for decades, whether at the helm of the cia, in congress, a governor and two presidents
to think that the same country that sent a pair of adams to lead this country now settles for half-wit and dim-wit with another chowderhead (jeb) in the pipeline once he learns to grow a pair of windshield wipers for the shit storm that will inevitably come out of his own mouth.
to think that an older american thinks that medicaid reform is nothing less than medicare ruination (given the rise in premiums) probably is hit with the same strain of alzheimer's that hit ronnie raygun
what a wonderful commercial this could be not only for kerry but for the dnc; the rethugs control the congress, and guess who is going to pick up the tab on this sorry sack of crap program - twice, in fact - average working people in the form of an added strain on the deficit and then out of pocket when grandma has to choose between eating cat food and her daily dose of blood pressure medication
this is what happens when you put a tank driver (the rethugs) in charge of social programs
Three words, albert:
Your own blog.
Lordy, lordy, albert, no need to post Kerry's whole life story in haloscan comments. But I do agree with what you're saying.
And about that medal that the grieving parents gave Bush-has anyone seen it? anybody know the name of this family? I wouldn't put it past Rove to make the whole thing up.
It's a shame that conscience and personal conviction has no place in political conversation, even here.
I'm no troll. I'll say it--Kerry DESERVES to beat Bush in a contest between corporate stooges.
But he won't. It's over. Vote your conscience--if you have one. Nader is the only man of principle that deserves my vote. If your conscience tells you otherwise, I praise you for voting accordingly. At this point you "throw your vote away" (the usual complaint) if you vote for either Kerry or Nader. Bush has already won--the corporations and media have seen to it. So at least vote for the guy who represents your values, whoever that is.
It's over.
No, it's not.
Carl,
Thanks for your opinion.
"he's not really stupid in the traditional sense."
you are right. many people take bush's extremely inaccurate perception of reality as evidence that he is stupid when in fact he is insane.
"he's not really stupid in the traditional sense."
I can see the campaign slogans now:
Bush: his stupidity is unreal in the nontraditional sense.
Bush: he is nontraditionally stupid in an unreal sense
Bush: His untraditional nonsense is stupidly unreal.
Bush: Stupid. Nontraditional. Unreal.
Good idea Carl. I'm voting for you.
albert,
Karin did NOT ask about that post. She inquired as to your health, a polite note of your absence, nothing more. Your first post tonight was great, one of your best, and then you go0 and spoil it all by posting a 3000 word rant, that while intersting, is way too long for a comment section.
Post a link, dude, we'll follow.
Clearly insane and in it for the money. Yet millions of Americans will vote for him. I blame the media.
WTF. I put my faith in veterans and hearby decree that Kerry wins. He wins because it SHOULD be so. If I was Dr. Seuss, I'd have a rhyme, but sort of like Horton who hatched an egg; it.should. be.so. Just as Clinton prevailed, as a poor son of a single mother from Arkansas. Kerry's place is hardwon in those treacherous jungles of Viet Nam (hellholes for those too young to have experienced that unlucky and totally wrenched reality.) Yeah, he may have been a few miles short of Cambodia, but what the fuck? He was there. And anyone who lived through those times knows that is FAR from nothing. Terror, thy name was Viet Nam. So, I need know nothing else. He went. Bushwad didn't and that's all ye know on earth and all ye need to know.
Carl
There is a difference between right
and wrong. I am idealistic, but to
live and walk among humanity, I have
to also be pragmatic. Ideals seldom
are dropped into place lock stock and
barrel. To move to an ideal requires
change in small steps. I am not a fan
of Nader, but I can respect your view
that he is the way for you. But we are
at a point where a Nader is not going
to be practical. A vote for Nader is
a step backwards at this point, it
enables those who would walk all over
your ideal to do so with impunity.
Kerry may not be perfect, but are you?
But he is the step in the right
direction in ensuring a foundation
that will permit you and I to argue
and debate. But at this point, Nader
will siphon at a minimum the counter
balance away that prevents those with
near fanatical views from removing
our right of choice and free discourse.
rorschach
Bush : The accent is fake, is there more?
and I must say alberts closing remarks were good, especially liked the kluxer withdrawal part. But the middle part was unnecessary, we can go to Kerry's website and read his bio. Well, goodnight all.
Hello friends!
Got any teeth left to kick in?
This ought to do it for ya!
I don't point these stories out to parade these tragedies as evidence in my political arguments. I point them out because the story needs to be heard by everyone - especially those purple-heart-band-aid wearing types.
And so should the rest of us - because THIS, people, is the face of war.
Anyhow, go read it. Cry for the man. I sure did.
I just saw David Brooks in "Uncommon Knowledge" a TV production by the Hoover Institute. He argued that the election will be 50-050. The Bush administration failed to "enlist pro-war" Democrats and thereby insured the current mess.
A thought struck me-what about the fact that the war was immoral? It broke the Westphalian Treaty, the treaty that all Europeans nations, (including the U.S., in a sense, by extension since the treaty was acknowledged by all nations as a guide from that time on) by justifying pre-emptive war.
Kerry can't argue that. It would imply that the U.S. is immoral- that Bush is immoral. This point can never be made.
However, that's how it's viewed by the rest of the world. Yakking about tyrants and democracy don't excuse the war.
This election is too important to throw a vote away. Each and every vote matters. This isn't the election to vote for third party candidates. Sit it out if your cynicism is set in stone.
The Bush administration has got to get voted out of office with as big a loss in electoral votes and popular votes as possible. The entire world needs to hear the American people collectively say, "George W. Bush does NOT speak for us."
Damn thing ate my post. Short version - using the dead as stepping stones is a family trait for the Bush family. Poppy did it, too - and as a bonus - lied and smeared Dukakis.
Nice bunch, these Bushes.
Jimmy Breslin link abut it here - from 9/23/01
Yeah - it's impossible to know how to describe Bush's..um..mind. He doesn't seem to have any talents beyond ones any that hurt this country but stupid, he ain't.
And it's strange how he looks the most relaxed and comfortable in his body language and speech when he's talking about revenge and death.
Or so it seems to me.
But some people buy it.
Defense isn't good enough...
I agree with someone above that Kerry needs to set the record straight, but he should beat the crap out of Bush while doing it.
"I voted for the $87 billon, but then Bush said he'd veto it unless there was no oversight of how it was spent. You can see why I changed my vote... letting Bush give billions to his cronies isn't my idea of supporting the troops. So far more than $2 billion of your money has mysteriously gone "missing".
fucking haloscan. i'll try it again.
anyone who is considering voting for nader should keep in mind that the supreme court has 4 very old justices on it. goober must not be allowed to nominate their replacements.
fucking haloscan. i'll try it again.
anyone who is considering voting for nader should keep in mind that the supreme court has 4 very old justices on it. goober must not be allowed to nominate their replacements.
fucking haloscan. i'll try it again.
anyone who is considering voting for nader should keep in mind that the supreme court has 4 very old justices on it. goober must not be allowed to nominate their replacements.
fucking haloscan. i'll try it again.
anyone who is considering voting for nader should keep in mind that the supreme court has 4 very old justices on it. goober must not be allowed to nominate their replacements.
sorry
As Randi Rhodes said - "We can't afford you, Ralph."
They're doing this shit because it all that's left from them to do. If they didn't play dirty, they'd lose.
The fight has just started. So be it.
my apologies. thnx for your goodwill.
the rnc convention fried my brain. and i didn't even watch it.
the good news, i sent my lengthy rant to a limbaughite. it has caused him to rethink his political posture.
i don't want a blog. i run a business and travel and i think that i have spent too much time on my computer at this site.
i only connected to this site because i became real frustrated with so many of the folks that i know personally becoming dementedly fascistic.
ignoring the trolls, i found this to be a community of common ground. gives me some faith that there might be a chance for the anti-fascists to win an anti-fascist future for the usa.
so, i beg your indulgence and i promise not to overwhelm you again.
sic semper tyrannis.
Albert -
That's sweet.
*
I honestly believe Kerry has a plan to overtake Bush over the next two months. The problem is it won’t matter if he can’t get airtime on network and cable TV news outlets. These are where average Americans get their election news.
We all know the SCUM is neither unbiased or non-partisan. Also, it’s all too clear they do, at best, a half-ass job of fact checking before deciding what to run (and how often for how long). While I realize many of us have written these news outlets it doesn’t seem to have made a significant difference. All the news we need is available online, right? Why don’t we boycott them and set up an online petition to send them?
For the most part, the same group of people visits this site everyday. I’m sure it’s that way at most other blog sites. But with an online petition we could all get our friends and family (who might not visit this site often but have similar beliefs) to sign. It would only take them a minute or two.
Plus, we could email the link to everyone in our address book and post the link on every liberal and progressive site. If we could get only 10,000 signatures, that would represent close to 10% of some of the top-rated cable shows. And if we got MoveOn and other activist sites involved, we might even affect the networks.
I would try myself, but I’m not computer savvy. Besides that, I don’t have name recognition. If someone known to the media (Atrios?) were involved, I don’t think they could ignore us.
I’m sick of being ignored; I know many others feel the same way. It’s just a thought. Let me know what you think.
albert c,
you are welcome here. You are odd, but most of the really good people I know and love are odd. And so am I.
And we're on the same side.
But please do use links. You have good material here that is unfortunately buried. You will make your case better with links than pasting.
Best...
Carl, if you're worried about your conscience, you should reconsider voting for Nader.
Because if you help put that fanatic asshole back in the WH your conscience will be bothering you for the rest of your life. Because you'll be one of the selfish, short sighted bastards who helped sound the death knell of america.
Hey Albert, I'm with you man.
Another explanation for traitor Zell- Joe Conason writes that he recently (in the last 2 years) became a born-again x-tian.
Which actually goes along with the "clinically insane" scenario.
And Thersites, who wrote that verse above?
The problem is it won’t matter if he can’t get airtime on network and cable TV news outlets. These are where average Americans get their election news.
you wanna know why he isn't getting coverage? kerry got coverage after bobo's speech because his actions became news --- that's how it works with television news, especially national cable news
if he keeps the gloves off, he wins this election and he should start now by hounding bobo into three open forum debates --- play high stakes poker with the high plains drifter
attack bobo on the "rehearsed debates" and edwards should do the same thing with cheney forcing an extra one there
attack their manhood -- that's what hits a cowboy upside the head -- humiliate them and insist on more debates in a completely open forum
not just because it's right -- it's the patriotic thing to do and also because each campaign receives federal matching funds
we own this election; the candidates do not and if we allow bobo to control the format and the frequency of debate we let him control the agenda and our freedom more than he is already
To people voting for Bush and some "undecideds" facts are as interesting to them as quantum mechanics is to the ditzy Bush twins.
See if your getting your ass kicked, as we did on 9/11, you will ally with the meanest schoolyard bully or the one that has influence over him. Bush has sold America this image of toughness in one of the biggest games of three-card-monte in recent times.
I talk to many pro-Bush folks and for the most part find many of the same faults in Bush as I do. But this is all excused because he is the one that will be that bully on America’s behalf.
As to Iraq, all the errors, the lack of WMD's, the intelligence failures and outright lies are washed away with the comfortable platitude of "better safe than sorry." Of course a more discerning look into it shows that we are really less safe because of Bush's sorry decisions and broken world alliances.
But an honest look into the facts is too time consuming and too uncomfortable to those attending a pro-Bush convention where I also watched Bush's empty speech.
The barbeque ribs were getting cold and Bush was telling the faithful that everything was fine.
www.removebush.com
I agree with hoary cripple. We have to do something en masse about this media. But we need someone with enough influence to get us all mobilized against them. Is Atrios listening? Will he please do something, so that we don't blow this election?:
1. Do a daily "Outrage of the day" posting whereby we Eschton readers can barrage a single biased reporter each day with emails.
2. Do an organized boycott of CNN, whereby we write in to them and their sponsors, in the same manner hoary cripple suggests.
3. Organize a protest of various newsstations at their studios in New York and D.C.
4. Urge one of the independent pro-Kerry groups like Moveon PAC or one of the 527 to make (and run) ads documenting various anti-Kerry-pro-Bush lies by various TV reporters.
I don't care what the idea is. Come up with something else if you don't like those. It just has to be something big enough to hit the media hard and make them notice.
For whatever reason, Bush's supporters do a far tougher and better job of defending and fighting for their guy than we do for ours. They will literally steal, harrass and commit violence for their guy.
I'm not suggesting we stupe as low as they do, but we can't compete with their dirty, tough tactics unless we get far tougher and dirtier ourselves.
The area where they outshine us the most is influencing and intimidating the television media to give their anti-Democratic coverage. Anti-Democratic-pro-Bush biased TV news coverage -- of the RNC convention, the Swift boat liars, the Democratic Convention -- is the reason Kerry is behind now.
We need Atrios's leadership (as well as Kos). If he can mobilize us to donote literally hundreds of thousands of dollars to various candidates, he can surely mobilize us to act against these TV media creeps, who are far more loathsome than most of these Democratic candidates are virtuous.
BTW, that last sentence isn't meant to be an insult to the democratic candidates, but one about the media -- so please don't take it the wrong way.
Speaking of shrill, here's wishy-washy Richard Cohen of the WaPo sticking his toes in the shrill pond (reg. required):
The willingness to fight hard and fight dirty is something I both admire and loathe -- and I apologize in advance for my ambivalence. It suggests passion, for a cause or for a man, and in the Republican Party at the moment there are both kinds. The constant distortion of John Kerry's record, a drizzle of deceit that eventually soaks the listener in a fat, wet lie, is not to be admired.
(...)
The Bush campaign knows what it is doing. Bush is a minority president, elected with less than half the votes, and often 50 percent still eludes him in the polls. The campaign is engaged in hand-to-hand combat for just enough votes -- a mandate of one, if need be. It is infused with such a sense of righteousness that, like the Crusaders of old, it can commit atrocity after atrocity on the way to Jerusalem. All that matters is the goal. God understands.
(...)
The GOP convention was successful because it was part of the overall Republican campaign. It was a loathsome affair, suffused with lies and anger, but also beautiful to watch, like a nature show about some wild animal, amoral and intent only on survival.
And Thersites, who wrote that verse above?
Yeats.
Voter Comment: The problem is the election won’t matter if Kerry can’t get airtime on network and cable TV news outlets. These are where average Americans get their election news.
My Response: You wanna know why the coverage seems tight? Senator Kerry got coverage after Bush's speech because his actions became news - that's how it works with television news, especially national cable news.
But we should start now by hounding Bush into three open forum debates with minimal prep questions and random topics; and Senator Edwards should do the same thing with VP Cheney, forcing an extra one there with a similar open forum.
This is not just the right thing to do - it's the patriotic thing to do, and also because each campaign receives federal matching funds. Regular Americans own this election; the candidates do not, and if we allow the President to control the format and frequency of debate, we surrender our control the agenda and our freedom.
I have never written a candidate before, nor have I ever been this involved in an election. I have a tremendous amount of respect for Senator Kerry, having lived in Massachusetts for many years. The country needs him to win this election, and there are many people out here in California pulling for the Senator. People are tired of the fear they live under, and the Administration that has left them in a vicious cycle of despair.
Please hold the President accountable for his actions post 9/11. Please do not let him grab our moment of tragedy and use it as his personal bumper sticker; it's so shameless and disgusting to us. It sickens many people I speak with, how a failure of intelligence can be exploited for political gain.
Senator Kerry, we know you are a decent, pragmatic and intelligent man and these values shine throughout your voting record. But these aren't decent times. Fear and the perpetual use of fear as a campaign tool leave you no choice. Please make the Bush/Cheney forces account for their miscalculations and don't let them up. Please take them on at every corner and every juncture. Please muster up the audacity you showed before Congress in 1971 and speak your heart. We know you were doing it then; please do it now.
rorschach, I enjoy ac's posts just as much as yours.
By the way, has there been a Paul sighting tonight?
In a powerful acceptance speech rife with distortions, the same resolute, persevering, backboned president who went into Iraq claiming weapons of mass destruction now defends the war as one of liberation. In Bush's head, al Qaeda and Saddam are still connected. And anyone who worries that Iraq is breeding more terrorists than it had to begin with is suffering from what Zell Miller called “analysis paralysis.”
My father used to describe a friend as “often wrong, but never in doubt.” On the last day of the convention, Dick Cheney described his friend to a breakfast of Ohio delegates as “decisive.”
“He doesn't waffle, he doesn't agonize,” said the vice president. “That's exactly what we need in a president. We don't need indecision or confusion.”
Well, I am sure that Dick Cheney isn't asking me for directions. But guess what? It's not George Bush's decisiveness that's the problem. It's his decisions.
The RNC didn't just want to portray the combat veteran Kerry as the wimp and the National Guardsman Bush as the warrior. By the time the balloons dropped, it was clear that Republicans think that this may become a contest between a man who swaggers -- “which in Texas is called 'walking’'' -- and a man who sways. They believe we'll pick the swagger.
In times of anxiety, many do gravitate to a very traditional, even archetypal image of male strength. Whatever the gender jokes, it isn't just men. There are also women in the passenger seat who are only comfortable with a man who behaves as if he knows where he's going.
Leadership in itself is neither good nor bad. The paradox of leadership is that the skills can be utterly disconnected from the goals. You can be led by Hannibal -- there was a guy with an elephant problem -- straight into the mountains.
Incognito--Good for you.
I was not in any way critiquing the content, merely pointing out that the vastness of the posts was a bit much. Many others said similar things about champion's posts tonight.
But if you feel the need to attack me, feel free.
To all who want to support a third party candidate, I can only repeat what has been said; not this year, this election is too important. Now, for future action, start up a grass roots movement in your state to institute Instant Runoff Voting. No third or fourth, fifth whatever candidate will ever get much of chance with our current two party, winner take all system. With IRV, you can confidently vote your conscience, knowing full well that you are not "throwing" your vote away, as when the vote tally is completed, the lower voted for candidate's votes will be re-directed to the voter's second choice. This type of voting could completely change the political landscape, which is exactly why it will not be implemented by the entrenched current parties. If your state has a ballot initiative mechanism, get involved so we can start to get alternative candidates elected. Who knows, we might even see people get elected because we like what they stand for, not because of the letter following their name. As a fifty something year old lifelong Democrat, I would like to vote for someone whose politics are closer to mine than just whoever happens to be in the D column. The most important part however is for right now, we have to derail the train wreck that is currently running this country off a cliff. John Kerry in a landslide!
“That's exactly what we need in a president. We don't need indecision or confusion.”
It's just that on 9/11, the cameras were rolling while he waited for someone to tell him what his decision was.
dumass librual--Damn right.
And let me also add this: Ralph Nader is NOT a third party candidate! He is a candidate, but he represents no party. No third, or fourth or fifth party. NONE!
Incognito -
What's your new potato receipe, the one with the extra virgin olive oil?
*
Senator Kerry got coverage after Bush's speech because his actions became news - that's how it works with television news, especially national cable news.
Unfortunately that doesn't explain away all the partisan media coverage.
It doesn't explain why the outlets had ReThugs on every night during the DNC to slam every comment from every speech; then had more ReThugs on night after night during the RNC to sing high praises for all the speakers, including crazy Zellfire and brimstone.
I don't see how a petition cause any harm. That's all.
Incognito -
What's your new potato receipe, the one with the extra virgin olive oil?
*
Jenny from the Blog
Jenny, it was a bust or I would share it with you. I'm trying to come up with some new vegan recipes. Thinking about taking some cooking classes, maybe if I have time.
Unfortunately that doesn't explain away all the partisan media coverage.
with the exception of FOX, I think it does and a challenger always has a double challenge of running against a figure that is the news
the deal in springfield the other night was a nice shot, because of its audacity. love him or hate him, when clinton was a challenger he has huge levels of audacity - he ran as the ultimate "alpha male" and just ate up the camera - you would have thought that clinton was president
and the move to bring Lockhart into the campaign may be the sign that the smart, cocky clinton folks are going to do the same thing with Kerry
the rule of thumb for challengers: be audacious and often -- you get what you give in televised news -- don't be ashamed to be warm in the "cool medium"
for all it's worth - sorry to disagree, hoary cripple, because usually you are right
Carl says... Attack all you want. My ethics are going to decide my vote--not "tactics" which at best will trade one corporate stooge for another.
You really should vote for Bush instead... and not just because a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush.
Tactics (even in quotes) is not something to deride. Using tactics is just using logic and reason. Bush is great at holding an ideological line while ignoring reason... your natural soul-mate I think.
Personally, I'm for pushing hard for instant-runoff voting. That will do more to reform the electoral system and make third parties viable than antyhing else. First though, we have to get the fascists out of power.
I've had a lot of cooking classes and experience cooking with meat as the main ingredient but not vegetables.
thnx for your goodwill.
decompressing from the image of the nuremburgers, i have turned on some great voices.
i recommend them to you....
nancy lamott, maureen mcgovern, peggy lee, eva cassidy, diana krall. and ella, and sarah.
and then there are the singers without the words, art farmer, art pepper, zoot, chet, miles, monk. and duke, and louis, and fatha.
what always scares me is that the nuremburgers will take them away. that losing to the fascists will deprive us of more than our liberties. it will also deprive us of our privacies.
my guess is that john ashcroft, dick cheney, hate jazz. god, but i would hate to think of a life being lived out with the tunes of glory being snuffed.
i would almost be willing to kill for listening to those great drug addicts.
never let anyone tell you that heroin is a bad thing. listen to charlie, chet, miles, stan, art, wardell, et alia.
hearing their songs, please tell me how we can shake the tree. change the world. stop the state crimes.
flugelhorns uber alles,
Incog -
Oh. You made it sound kind of tantalizing - but I guess that was you anticipating...
Well, you inspired me to get some potatoes, onions, good tomatoes, garlic, twice cold pressed olive oil and some other stuff and make something. So thanks anyway for the idea... (sorry it didn't work out for you)
*
rorschach, I just knew you and not the other posters I saw. I wasn't singling you out or something.
the problem with our political system, present fascists in the rethug party excluded, isn't the system
it's that people don't want to get engaged in the system
we can talk all we want about third and fourth and fifth political parties, but we can barely stay focused on two parties today
we suffer from political ADD in this country and we say one thing about wanting the details and then deride the candidate as "boring" when he offers them
the whole bullshit line about the political parties is that you have to do some real heavy lifting to get anything changed. most folks don't want to lift! and therein lies the problem
and this whole issue with the undecideds? talk about neurotic! we have wide and sweeping differences between these two candidates (more than the media will lead you to believe) and we still have undecideds?
these folks shop last minute for christmas, are uninvolved classmates and co-workers, live two minutes from where they work and are ten minutes late to work
the heck with the undecideds -- get after new voters; create a base; get them engaged about the differences -- remember the line, "if you build it, they will come?" it never mattered more.
TIME POLL METHODOLOGICAL FUCK-UP!
Wondering where that mysteriously large Time poll bounce came from? Wonder no more.
Notice the question they asked during the convention. Notice the asterisk next to the polling numbers before the convention.
They pushed the leaners *DURING THE CONVENTION*. They didn't push leaners in the pre-convention numbers they use as their bounce comparison.
Doubly dishonest. Completely inflated bounce. Artificial through and through.
Nice, eh?
There's an angry thread aboil about this over at Daily Kos.
the problem with our political system, present fascists in the rethug party excluded, isn't the system
it's that people don't want to get engaged in the system
I have to disagree with you there. The fact is, "the system" PRODUCES the very sort of people you describe as the problem. People who are indifferent, apathetic, confused, are highly functional for the system as it stands at present. The system creates such people, and the system relies upon such people.
It is the breaking of the cycle that must be our medium-term goal.
Syntallic
No reason to apologize. We're on the same side. Besides, I didn't get into politics until Junior ran in 2000. It took his complete disregard for honor, honesty and integrity to open my eyes to the fact that not are politicians are created the same.
Therefore, I'm not sure whose side mainstream media was on last time an incumbent ran for re-election. Also, that wasn't a close race.
Still, many people, myself included, would like to do more to get Kerry's comments on TV. I agree he needs to come out swinging, I've been waiting expectantly for months. And I hope you're right when you say you sense a change in tactics.
Well, you inspired me to get some potatoes, onions, good tomatoes, garlic, twice cold pressed olive oil and some other stuff and make something. So thanks anyway for the idea... (sorry it didn't work out for you)
*
Jenny from the Blog
That sounds good for something. What happened to me was I got a little buzzed and creative and over did it. I believe you should keep it as simple as possible like rural Italian cuisine but I didn't--too many layers of flavor.
It is the breaking of the cycle that must be our medium-term goal.
if we -- and i do stress, WE -- are prepared to do the heavy lifting, then it will happen
democracy is not a spectator sport, and if we are spending more time watching the media than we are doing something about it -- well, "we get what we give"
i was always amazed in massachusetts just how bloodthirsty politics is; it's the same way in many of the colonial states -- the original 13 states
they have huge roots in the revolutionary spirit, just like the south has it's affection for its civil war generals
in other parts of the country, with the exception of texas --- which had its moment of liberation, alamo excluded -- are kinda like spectators
if people work hard, stay focused and force candidate accountability, the system will change in november starting with President Kerry
anyone who believes anything coming out of TIME needs help. NEEDS SCHOOLING.
in the years of vietnam, hank had a managing editor by the name of otto fuerbringer[his son jono now writes for the nyt].
otto's rule was nothing but good news concerning the amerikan invasion of indochina.
otto's rule endured until walter questioned the state propaganda following tet in 1968.
oh, and just so for the record, hank was a boner.
oh, and in case you don't know, hank was henry luce. the founder of time inc.
publisher of time, fortune, sprots illustrated.
now a part of time warner....CNN.
do you get the picture? never believe anything that a time warner entity reports.
i could go into this in detail. at length. but i have been cautioned to keep my rants to a minimum length.
one last point: let's take the hypothetical point that ralph nader was jesus christ, jr and he spoke to what the country wanted in its next president
don't you think that the challenger party wouldn't have moved to "draft" this candidate? remember how the dems and rethugs were courting colin powell who at that point seemed party-agnostic?
people had huge respect for powell because he reached across demographic lines such as race, religion and wealth
powell ended up blowing his chance, so I guess history wasn't kind to him. yes, the parties are monolithic structures, but Dean started to show people how politics can be restructured - in the very medium you are typing on right now
i am much more optimistic than i used to be - and I am already seeing more people engaged this go round than at any time in my lifetime
in other parts of the country, with the exception of texas --- which had its moment of liberation, alamo excluded -- are kinda like spectators
I'm sure that was true in the past. I can only speak for Oregon, but we had 50,000 + turn out to greet Kerry last time he was here.
Also went to a MoveOn.Org meeting directly after Fahrenheit 9/11 debuted. As I recall, Portland, Or had the largest turnout in the country for that as well.
Bush has brought alot of previously uninterested people into the fray. There is where my hope lies; I don't think the recent polls of likely voters are taking newly registered first-time voters into account.
i also believe that the defining moment in this election has not yet happened. just a strange feeling I have
it's going to happen right after the debates; as soon as people start to firm up their thoughts on the candidates
and we will be up late on election night, trying to figure out who won this thing
i could go into this in detail. at length. but i have been cautioned to keep my rants to a minimum length.
albert champion
Not by others of us. I don't know this shit and I'd like to know if you have the time.
i gotta tell you hillary clinton can be a gem from time to time
her comments on bill having great health insurance are priceless
i could go into this in detail. at length. but i have been cautioned to keep my rants to a minimum length.
albert champion
Not by others of us. I don't know this shit and I'd like to know if you have the time.
Incognito
Barb taken. I retract all earlier comments about the length of your posts, champion. Please do as you will, and I will not say a word.
I mentioned Hillary's healthcare comment on an earlier thread. Glad to know someone else caught that little jab.
ABC played politics by airing Bush's snetiments for Big Dog. Then they showed Hillary at the podium and cut her off right before the Healthcare dig.
i also believe that the defining moment in this election has not yet happened. just a strange feeling I have
it's going to happen right after the debates; as soon as people start to firm up their thoughts on the candidates
and we will be up late on election night, trying to figure out who won this thing
syntallic
My thinking is a little different. I don't think the 'defining moment' will be the debate or election but something that precedes it or comes after it although those two events will be big but this will be much bigger.
incognito, you said it better than I did; it's going to be something outside of the debates
kerry draws closer with the debates; and that defining moment is what puts him over the top
that's what I sense - some would say it's a shirley mclaine moment; back before the primaries began I said it was kerry and i've taken my share of arrows over the selection ever since
look where he is now -- in the corner with nowhere to go but win; and the man is an amazing closer; i wish i had put some action on it vegas or something
Incog
What's your grey matter pondering?
hmmmmm, does anyone else here remember the Cheney/Lieberman debates of 2000?
Does anyone here think that the Cheney/ Edwards debates will look at all similar?
ember the Cheney/Lieberman debates of 2000?
otherwise known as "how I spent my summer vacation watching the paint dry?"
cheney is a crafty, evil SOB, but edwards has that slick willy streak in him and could set traps on the old fella
don't forget: edwards spent a career tearing down CEO's on the stand and he is extremely detailed and prepared; the only way that edwards loses this is if he works the normal democratic issues into the normal laundry list
he has to play prosecutor on the last four years and make cheney angry; that's the end game
Hillary has had two real gems this week. 1) 'there wouldn't have been a vote' response 2) health care.
Fabulous.
Incog
What's your grey matter pondering?
hoary cripple
You know what I'm [talking] about and not to [sound] too cryptic, and I wont say what I feel may happen here and have that, knock knock knock at my door, afterwards. That's all. I'm just saying nobody could create so much bad karma in the world without it coming back on them eventually.
Lieberman sat there rubbing Cheney. I still remember my reaction "He's throwing the debate to Cheney!" Lieberman didn't even try.
there will be no debates.
Get to know this guy before his documentary leads the way in the next round of Kerry-smearing.
i think gore selected lieberman because he was the only guy who would have sat next to gore
shit he did it with cheney
if I was the dems, i would go and get barack obama and send him out there to campaign against zell miller (in the media) in all of the battleground states and then get him to new york and la where the media capitals are; make sure that zell miller's disjointed anger is a reflection of bobo
bring in wesley clark to work the terror and military policy - run in a pack and not alone because that's how bobo has positioned himself; he's alone and he doesn't need any one else, according to karl rove
They pushed the leaners *DURING THE CONVENTION*. They didn't push leaners in the pre-convention numbers they use as their bounce comparison.
And they introduced a selection bias:
"In order to ensure that everyone in the household has an equal chance at being interviewed, we ask to speak with the youngest male, 18 years of age or older. If no male is available we ask to speak with the oldest female, 18 years of age or older. Asking this question helps to increase the level of chance and make sure that we speak with a diverse population."
And we know that men are more likely to vote GOP than women...
if I was the dems, i would go and get barack obama and send him out there to campaign against zell miller
I heard that was already in the works. Supposedly he's so far ahead in Il. he can afford to travel. I think they need Hillary out there in swing states to get the undecided (mostly female)voters to think Kerry. Don't know if that will happen, though. Probably not if she has her eyes on 2008.
I heard that was already in the works. Supposedly he's so far ahead in Il. he can afford to travel.
No way! He's beating that GOP powerhouse of reason and charisma, Alan Keyes?
Now I've seen everything!
No way! He's beating that GOP powerhouse of reason and charisma, Alan Keyes?
Do I detect a smidgeon of sarcasm?
I haven't been following the IL. race. Too far away and nothing I can do to help.
I'm thinking that anyone who thinks Mickey Kaus is right about anything is either insane or drunk.
Raybin
I thought I heerd someone talking about me.
And by the way, can you guys keep it down? You're scarin da cats!
LOL on keyes ... the moral to the story is that we've balanced the race card to an extent that even an ignorant black man can now be a carpetbagger
lincoln must be rolling his eyes about Keyes, but he sure must be happy
hoary cripple--Just a smidge. Keyes is a deranged man brought in by the GOP for this race for God only knows what reason. People have been betting that he might score under 25% of the vote... (He was brought in after the Jack Ryan sex club thing took Ryan out.)
syntallic--well said.
heck, what if this thing came down to hawaii at the end? think tom brokaw would have a stroke knowing that he could retire sooner than later?
rorschach
Thanks for the info. I followed the Ryan sex thing and I knew who Keyes was. I just didn't have any idea he was showing that poorly. Wasn't Ryan putting up a better fight? If so, I have to say good for the Illini! Putting aside partisan politics to choose the better candidate. Be nice to send that message to the rest of 'Murika.
Be nice to send that message to the rest of 'Murika.
i'd settle for OH, partial electoral in CO and MO for right now -- we'd win this thing going away
hoary cripple--Not much of a message to send with regard to Keyes. He's a joke candidate, really, with no hope of winning.
I see live people.
great closing argument for edward in his debate with cheney, and it has to be done in a completely disarming sort of way, with that sugary north carolina accent:
"i have hope for america. hope is the basis of our democracy, the hope of a better time ahead, the common hope we share as a people. and here's to the hope that at some point in our future that a man who believes in the valued principles of this country never has to turn his back on his daughter for fear of public opinion; that this father doesn't have to choose between the sanctity of his family and the politics of a few out of touch people. whatever we do in life, family is at the center of our national dialogue and priorities. we must make sure that we do not have to sacrifice our families or turn our backs on them when forces beyond our control try to divide us from them. please support the right of civil unions for our nation's gay americans; we are tearing family's apart for political gain and it must stop tonite."
I don't think that's really a ghost.
So far more than $2 billion of your money has mysteriously gone "missing".
travc
Why am I thinking, more like 8.8 Billion?
Can I do a line of what ever u guys are doing? How the hell can y'all (I live in TX now) be so lucid at this time of night, morning, what ever?
agave--I'm in TX too right now. Not sure how lucid I am, though. Haven't slept in a long, long time.
Why am I thinking, more like 8.8 Billion?
That's more like the figure I had in mind.
Speaking of missing money, I heard a few months back the GAO had been unable to account for close to $100 billion and they hadn't gotten to the Defense Dept. yet. Heard anything more about this?
rorschach,
I used to have insomnia bad. Just got up to pee and thought I'd check this out.
(and finish my drink I found)
What part of TX?
Me, SE. Wondering if Frances is gonna have any effect here.
Doh! I mean the hurricane.
Is it only Texans up this late? Besides me I mean. I was, however, born in TX.
Lucidity being subjective, I have the summer off.
agave--I'm in TX too right now. Not sure how lucid I am, though. Haven't slept in a long, long time.
rorschach
You're not the only one.
look where he is now -- in the corner with nowhere to go but win; and the man is an amazing closer; i wish i had put some action on it vegas or something
amen, nobody should be loosing the faith. he might not be jebus but big john is our only hope.
i remember dean being way ahead. working on a job in miami so i wasn't paying too close attention to the close of the primaries. came back to hotel room, turn on the t.v., john kerry is the winner. my jaw almost hit the floor. i was very excited, hated dean, love kerry. so it ain't over till it's over. of course if bush is still pres. on nov.3, then it's really over.
in other news, i have read bush is trying to back out of the ariz. debate, pussy!
I'm in Austin, doubt the hurricane will do much here. I bartended in New Orleans through a couple of hurricanes and had a grand old time...but I feel for the Floridians who are well and truly fucked by this storm (esp since the Guard are largely overseas these days).
I think I look older and haggard now or something. Today at work, this guy, who I know is older than me called me "Sir."
Lucidity being subjective, I have the summer off.
Anybody can correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems to be objectively not lucid.
But
thats
OK
And as far as the loads of cash that have gone missing (about 43% of all the money handed over to Halliburton unaccounted for)...that's bad, but I think this is even worse:
A day after President Bush heralded his efforts to help the elderly cope with increased medical expenses, federal officials announced the largest premium increase in dollars in the Medicare program's history, raising the monthly expense by $11.60 to $78.20.
I see live people.
Ghost
Goddammit, shut the fuck up.
you made my tummy hurt
Like, I've got to be up in about 5 hours to get some errands done after being up all fucking night upset about all this shit. I just wish I was like a lot of people who know what's going on but are somehow able to just block it out. So I feel worn out all the time and groggy--having to think several times before I do something or keep from locking my keys in my vehicle--that sort of thing. I'm angry because I take my responsiblity as a citizen seriously and most of my fellow Americans don't. There's always just this angst like I'm mad about it all any of us should even be concerned about this crazy shit.
heck, what if this thing came down to hawaii at the end?
It won't. Or at least, if Kerry is on 266 and only Hawaii is left, then he'll win, since it's Kerry country, just as much as Alaska is Bush country.
The election will be called for one candidate either when the upper midwest comes in -- OH, MN, MO, IA, WI -- or the southwest -- NM, AZ, NV. Barring a repeat of Florida in one or more states, that is.
Anybody can correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems to be objectively not lucid.
This is a test, this is only a test.
Apparently you're as lucid as the rest of us.
And what's the deal with wing nuts? Band-aids of a purple heart on a fat bitch's face?
What the fuck?
Good night to those I like.
hoary cripple -
I hadn't heard that particular outrage, but an outrage I DO remember is that a whopping amount of money (many billions) was missing from the Pentagon budget with no paperwork, and the dude under whose purview it fell said "gee, it got destroyed during 9/11 attack." The only problem was, he was Army, and it was the Navy side of the building that got attacked (or vice versa).
esp since the Guard are largely overseas these days
not the one who stopped me at the home depot yesterday. demanded, with an arrogance and entitlement i show him my receipt. that nearly made me take a swing.
i don't mind the store looking out for it's profits. and if there is some sort of civil unrest, sure the guard should be out and about. but why the fuck should the national gaurd be protecting home depots profits? jebs orders? i just handed him the reciept and walked away, very pissed. had he followed me i swear i'd of punched him in his fat face.
it was a small thing, but for me in this election, it's the attitude, stupid.
Oh, and it's not just Texans here. I'm in Arizona (in exile for a few years now, originally a Jersey/Philly girl).
Anus Moses Thanks for the link to the tragic story about a soldier killed in Iraq and his father wishing
But as usual the CNN headline writer downplays it.
Here is their headline
Vietnam vet buries son killed in Iraq Idaho governor, 1960s rock star attend services
Just how "neutral" can you be?
Father soldier buries son soldier
Some semi-famous people attend.
You have to read further in the story and the VERY LAST PARAGRAPH to get a sense of why this should have a more accurate headline.
"The war is not worth it now. We need to get the hell out of there."
CNN.com has been doing this over and over. They have specifically been doing it with Abu Ghraib over and over. I've written to them twice and I think I'll write to them about this.
The headline makes it seem like no big deal. Part of the tragedy of this story is that the kid wanted his dad to be proud of him and the dad obviously didn't convey that enlisting in the army wasn't something that would make him product but also that the kid thought that he was fighting the Sept. 11 villians. No he wasn't he was a petro warrior for George W. Bush and the gas happy SUV drivers of America.
OBL is still at large. Kid is dead.
CNN headline writer blows it again.
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Mahatma Gandhi
Good night, Incognito. Hope you can relax some, take a nap after your errands, maybe turn the computer off for a day or so. You can always catch up later, and your health is more important. The better to keep fighting the beast over the long haul.
rorschach,
Yeah, even tho I kind of hope that that whole state will just break off and float away, with Jeb, I really feel for those people. I can only imagine.
I'm almost in Louisiana. Maybe I'll learn myself some cajun cookin.
Incognito,
Jesus fuckin God, dude.
Give it a god Damn break!
The whole world does not turn on what you do or don't do.
Do what you can, without stressing yourself out, and what happens happens.
The point of being in this world is not always clear, but you have to learn to enjoy and be happy.
Make that your quest.
Lighten up
You're really starting to piss me off.
(sarcasm)
Up all night, huh guys?
charley -
WTF? What on earth is the excuse? Is this guy working part-time for HD? Is he acting in his FNG capacity? For what? Hurricane matters?
Quick! Is anybody a hacker? On google news, one topic says "Enter a category" Put something good in!
eh by product I meant proud, but it is a revealing slip. The kid became a product. Chewed up and spit out because of a bunch of old white men who never had to go to war.
agave--If you're there, make the most of it, and learn you some cookin'. I know I did when I was in New Orleans a while back (and when I was in Albuquerque, I learned quite a different style). Take what you can from your situation.
Or, alternatively, you can bitch and moan about where you are (not that you have at all, I'm just sayin')
Up all night, huh guys?
mena
No
mena--Up since Thursday, actually.
It's not the $87 billion question that worries me. The one that could kill Kerry at the first debate is when W. turns to him and asks:
"Senator, why DID you vote yes on the Iraq resolution and can you tell me once and for all if you would vote yes today?"
You know Bush is rehearsing the question already and if Kerry doesn't have a smooth, well-worded answer already out there in the public mind BEFORE the debate, this could be a knockout moment.
He can't hesitate, stutter, pause, sweat, sigh, roll his eyes. It can't be the same sort of 2 min. non-answer Bush gets by with on the WMDs or on job loss. That only works if everyone already knows your answer verbatim.
Imagine if he hesitates or rambles about being 'misled' (i.e. "I'm easily traicked") or about how it was 'complicate'. The thing is, we all know it WAS complicated, but that won't work in that moment. He already tried that answer and Bush is still quoting it for his own gain.
It has to be short, decisive, and it can't be unveiled that night. It needs at least two weeks of circulation. Otherwise he's handed Bush another campaign ad, and anotehr term.
spocko -
I caught your slip, and then thought immediately of its obvious "subliminable", and more telling, meaning.
Goodnight, Incog.
Rorschach,
What's that about? You're gonna kill yourself, man.
I have a question. Are we prepared for an attack on our schools like the Russian's
No? Why not? Money spent elsewhere?
Money not spent on first responders?
Money spent on missle shields?
Money spent on Halliburton outsourcing?
Nah, couldn't be. I'm sure Tom Ridge is ON THE JOB. "Quick Johnny, get me my color coded chart, that will show 'em we are prepared! Beware terriorists, the color orange is out to get you!!!"
Sorry Kate. didn't know you were out there. I haven't heard anything about it in several months. I just started looking, but it's going to take awhile as I don't remember which statin aired it. I think it was Headline News so I'll start there.
mena-- I do appreciate your concern. Not sure what it is about,and it ain't good for my health, but I do go on jags like this; working on two degrees, it becomes necessary at times.
On a lighter note, Bill O'Reilly got punk'd. Bart Simpson style.
Spocko:
That tirade could work well if focused on the missile defense. Kerry should ask Bush point blank during the first debate if he's willing to pledge to shift the missile defense spending into first responders and soldier's pay.
rorschach,
Albuquerque!
Fuckin A,
That's were I moved from!
Difference of night and day.
But both my girl friend and I kind of like it here. I love the vegetation (tho the desert is cool, too).
The food? New Mexico has it's own style, Red or Green. Gonna take some time to get used to the poor excuse they have for 'Mexican', here.
If ever.
Supposed to get some green chili in the mail soon. Let me Know if you want some.
So, Ny Tall
Sweet dreams.
In otherwords GO TO BED GODDAMIT
i don't know kate, it was a quick encounter. i usually walk away from incidents involving uniforms. a product of my delinquent youth, when i was still too dumb to walk away. but i was confused because it wasn't any of the cops uniforms i recognize from this county (seminole). when i got home my daughter told me the nat. gaurd was supervising at some outlets. tensions are high due to the impending storm.
usually there are mandatory evacuations, which essentially means a guy with a bullhorn in a truck telling people to run!! for your life. but this time they are instituting curfews, that state and local officials insist they mean to enforce. the local news showed a beach patrol guy getting into it with a surfer and threatening him with arrest if he would'nt leave the beach. i just don't like the tone of the whole thing. people are nervous enuf without the authorities fuck'n with them.
Frances is so dissipated now i don't expect any real problems except in the coastal areas. i had thought about hitting the beach to make some hurricane pictures, but i guess not. lovely democracy.
agave--Having a friend in with the UNM alumni association here in Austin means roasted Hatch chiles in bulk! Hallelujah! But thank you for the offer! Sleep well, my compadre.
It's not the $87 billion question that worries me. The one that could kill Kerry at the first debate is when W. turns to him and asks:
"Senator, why DID you vote yes on the Iraq resolution and can you tell me once and for all if you would vote yes today?"
Simple answer:
'Because when I'm President, if the need arose, I would want Congress to give me that authority, so that I could it wisely. And unlike this President, I would use it wisely.'
or you could possibly use a metaphor and say something like:
'I voted to put a weapon in the hands of the President, to prove to Saddam that the United States meant business. But the President fired that weapon when there was no threat and no need.'
It riffs off the Second Amendment. And it's the kind of metaphor that George Lakoff would like.
The 'vote to give the President authority' = 'the right to bear arms'. But the right to bear arms isn't the right to shoot.
Man.... the wife and I were thinking of retiring in New Mexico. Nice liberal pot laws, lots of culture...
Why'd you move dude?
Hey, hoary! Don't knock yourself out on my account here. There are so many bloody outrages it's almost impossible to keep them straight. You'd need some sort of super computer to keep them arranged in a giant map with links between each one, that could cover a football stadium.
charley -
How creepy. And I don't get the curfews. Is the storm supposed to be more dangerous after 8 PM? As to the National Guard at stores, it would make sense if looting were going on. But if there ain't no prob (is there?), then what's the point, except to ratchet up the sense of a police state?
It may well have been the (university) department I was in at UNM, or it may have been the extraordinarily abusive relationship I was in (I still have physical scars), but Albuquerque palled on me pretty quickly.
I do love NM. I love the tri-cultural nature. I taught when I was there, and so got to know a good deal about the different cultures.
And Albuquerque, I have to say, is in many ways the anti-Austin.
Whereas Austin kicks ass, you have to drive for hours upon hours to get anywhere else that is cool. Albuquerque, I think, is rather a pit, but a five minute drive can take you to God's own heaven.
Anyway, I left for a number of reasons, and ABQ has huge problems with violence and drugs and crime with few of the payback things you get in real cities, but NM is still beautiful to me.
nc:
The first answer works well and gives me some hope. But he needs to codify it soon, whatever it is.
That answer would also give Kerry a chance to look tougher to get over the 'sensitive' crap.
To "If the need arose..." I would add:
"...and where we find ourselves today, I am fully prepared that it will..."
Sorry, that last post was in response to Barndog.
The 'vote to give the President authority' = 'the right to bear arms'. But the right to bear arms isn't the right to shoot.
And I realised that you can actually expand on that metaphor and say something like...
'The President said that we shouldn't wait for a smoking gun. I agree. But the way this President took us to war, we didn't even know if Iraq had a loaded gun.'
Well, take care all. I'm going to try to go back to sleep.
Ever think we're kind of back to the point of being 'outraged at the outrage'?
Whats the point? Expending all your energy being pissed off at the fuckheads only uses YOU up. If YOU know the facts, stick to them - and get to work implmenting a plan of action.
Example: theres 25k registered voters in my township - 5200 voted in the Aug 3 primary. Whats that tell me? I'll be out in the next couple weeks knocking on doors. (that is until and if the Doc's don't cut my shoulder by then).
Be pissed if you choose to. It's only going to consume you, and eventually beat you. And, at the end, you'll be wondering what happened and why you didn't do more.
Thanks, Kate. I generally avoid knocking myself out, even for selfish reasons. I really want to find something on this, though. I know I heard it correctly, and, then poof! didn't hear a word after that.
Michael m
That would be nice, but on the other hand anything that gives them another fear chip isn't always a good thing.
Agave
Alright I'm going, I'm going.
Thanks for the push.
Night.
Michael m:
That's Kerry's point, and he's explained it fairly well. He voted yes, because he would want that authority for himself, if the time comes to ask for it.
Let's accept (to the dismay of some) that the constitutional division of powers is more or less gone, and that Congress now gives the President authority to use force, instead of 'declaring war'.
And 'if the need arose' is too cumbersome.
Let's say:
'If -- or, perhaps I should say, when -- the time comes'
rorschach -
I have Marine bros in ABQ. Hope to get out there next year in the spring to check it out. Already did the backgrounder on property & jobs. Being from Michigan, I like the concept of snow/sun. Nice thing is that it doesn't get ass-cold like it does here.
First thing one of my Bro's told me was 'less than an hour's drive outta town, and you're in heaven'. I enjoy that concept. Here, it's about 3.5 hours - to the U.P. (Upper Pennusula).
Everyone in Michigan knows that God's area code is 906.
Barndog--I do believe you'll love it. It was fantastic, being in the valley of ABQ in short sleeves and driving just a tiny bit north and being able to have snowball fights.
And I have never seen sunlight like I saw in NM. There's a reason why Georgia O'Keeffe went there.
nc:
Thanks, I can sleep now. For a few hours at least. It's always darkest before you check in at Atrios.
Seriously, I owe you a night's sleep.
Shorter Barndog: Don't get mad, get even.
(I hope I'm not taking too many liberties with that.)
Agreed. I've said before that I don't get to vote, but I'm doing my best to get people registered and into the polling booths.
Turnout in 2000 was 51%. That means 100 million Americans who could have voted, didn't. If you get just one person who didn't vote in 2000 to vote for Kerry, that makes a big difference.
Fuck the polls. Fuck the trolls. Fuck the cablenewsers. Elections are about votes. And he who laughs last, laughs longest.
We'll see I suppose. That's the plan, Stan.
As for the U.P. (for my end of the story) - I've had a couple of interesting weeks (yup) fishing and drinking with a couple buddys, in the spot on the Two-Hearted River off Lake Superior where Hemingway vacationed and wrote.
The folklore and history of Lake Superior is wildly interesting. As with most of the Great Lakes for that matter.
kate, they had problems after Charley. but they always do. i don't understand it either. i live in your typical mid-class neighborhood. there aren't any riots. i'm sure home depot is loosing some profit due to theft, but they have got to be cleaning up. thurs. there was a line that went around the entire home depot,people had lawn chairs, and were sitting, waiting for as much as 8 hours for plywood.
as for New Mexican cuisine, alway go for the green chiles, damn i miss those things.
the 87 billion is so easy, i don't understand the kerry campaign. bush wanted the 20 billion, for reconstruction attatched to the 66billion for the troops. bush, threatened to veto it if he didn't get it that way. democrats wanted oversight on the 20 billion (not that they would have actually done anything). now the 20 billion has not even been spent (due to our catastrophic success). negroponte, is now asking for 3 billion to be diverted to security. jebus, never let the monkeys play with the money.
Pay attention to the polls - arm yourself with the RIGHT information.
I have pages upon pages of the RIGHT information - I'm putting it into a 3 ring this weekend. Use it refute the $165 million B/C ad campaign of flip flops. I have the synopsis of Kerry's 57 Senate bills.
Of course, along with that - have the RIGHT information.... what's went WRONG - that you aren't being told.
Theres plenty of that around.
i'm sure home depot is loosing some profit due to theft
Don't they jack-up prices to exorbitant levels for items like plywood, concrete screws, duct tape and such?
Whereas Austin kicks ass, you have to drive for hours upon hours to get anywhere else that is cool. Albuquerque, I think, is rather a pit, but a five minute drive can take you to God's own heaven.
true, sante fe is a little better than albuquerque, actually a lot better, tho, it has it's own problems (tourists, lots of 'em) but a 5 min. drive and you can be in the mountains, not see another soul for days. and the best thing about new mexico, even better than florida, the evening light. crimson, purple skys, that remind you of LSCrazy.
Heh.
The west of NC is a corner of the South where the landscape isn't so Southern. Out in the mountains, we have seasons.
I miss cooler, temperate summers and crisper winters. But I also need to travel. I have friends from the U.P., and what they tell me makes me nostalgic for a place I've never visited, if that makes any sense.
This country -- this vast, varied country -- is enough to keep you busy for a lifetime of lifetimes, as long as you have the desire and the open eyes to seek it out.
It's funny. When I volunteered for the Patsy Keever campaign, I said that I was doing it because I wanted the people in charge to live up to the country. When Europeans come to the States, the first feeling is usually one of space and openness and possibility. And to leave it in the hands of people with closed minds and hearts and fists is such a fucking travesty.
CNN: sources say we're closing in on Osama.
the 87 billion is so easy, i don't understand the kerry campaign.
Me neither. The best response is from the Simpsons, for pete's sake.
SPEAKER: Then it is unanimous, we are going to approve the bill to evacuate the town of Springfield in the great state of--
CONGRESSMAN: Wait a second, I want to tack on a rider to that bill - $30 million of taxpayer money to support the perverted arts.
SPEAKER: All in favor of the amended Springfield-slash-pervert bill?
FLOOR: Boo!
SPEAKER: Bill defeated.
KENT BROCKMAN: I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply doesn't work
Get Matt Groening to do a new version of that sequence, with '$20 billion of taxpayer money in no-bid contracts', and there's your answer.
Why aren't Kerry, Edwards, their wives, their kids on the TV Talk shows NON-STOP. The country doesn't know them, that's why they believe what the Repubs say. Kerry has not defined himself beyond his service. Most people vote on their emotions. They want to know the persons their voting for. The Dems had a lot of debates in the primaries and the Dem voters had a lot of time to watch Kerry. But the swing voters weren't watching. Kerry and especially Edwards because he comes off so well have to be on everything-Oprah, Larry King, Imus, the Tonight Show...What they did 6 months ago doesn't count. They need to do it now. (They should have done it in August.)
hoary; re - Home Depot
You bet they fucking do. Seen it plenty of times. I've been a carpenter most of my life (outside of the military). They're the Wal-Mart of home improvement. I couldn't tell you how many small builder-related businesses they've shut down here in my area. Besides, the owner of HD is a major contributor to B/C. They also have a nice record of lobbying for relaxing trade laws to bring sub-standard materials in from China and the like.
Like lighting fixtures, fans and so on.
Think twice before you shop there. Oh, the lumber sucks too.
anonymous in nc
LOL! Thanks for that. And now, I think I'll get my cat back in and lay down. Rorschach, if you're still out there, try and get some sleep. G'nite all.
Here's the Osama story as reported in Pakistan:
“In counter-terrorism, the programmes are in place. We are after these guys globally. Success against people that you know about, Osama could happen tomorrow, could happen the day after, a week from now, or month from now. Everything is in place. A little bit is needed to localise these people and to catch them.”
Barndog:
Did you hear the story this week that the Home Depot offers employees health benefits for pets, but not domestic partners.
So, if you're gay with a partner and two cats (cliche, I know, but anyway) the cats get healthcare but not the partner.
Anyway, they suck. The old-school hardware store just up the road is much better. It's the place that the professionals go to. And as the son of a house painter, I know to avoid the DIY megamarkets and the consumer shit, and buy professional-grade materials. Less choice, but far fewer shitty choices.
It was like feeding time at the zoo:
Each Repuke with his maniacal, "BOO!!!"
Just how fucking low
Will this subspecies go?
If only Bill Clinton could sue.
I read this editorial in the WP today. I agree with it 100%. The jist of the story is that repubs fight down and dirty and win, and dems don't fight at all, and hope people will be impressed by their civility.
It was a shame. During the convention the word was no Bush negativity. The repubs followed no such protocol and attaked the shit out of Kerry. Republicans have paid no price. Dems have. After the dem convention, Kerry gained a big lead, had bush by the throat and let go. Republicans would not have done it. Even statesmen like Dole and Bush I implied that Kerry made up shit to get his medals. Meanwhile in August, where were the other dems surrogates? I did not see any-not any good ones. Meanwhile, where were the dems working the refs (the media. After the last Gore campaign, I would have called out the wayward journalist and said that I would be keeping an eye on them to see if they are going to be helping bush. They still may help bush, but they would be watching their back the whole time. Dems (except for Clinton) just have no balls and want to be liked instead of feared. This is why Bush will win. Kerry needs to say something really hardh that will ratchet up the stakes for Bush. Another mistake-not mentioning Osama. If a dem were prez, you the repubs would be mentioning Osama in each speech, and would not be concerned about the price they would pay if/when Osama is found. Like I said a few days ago-I want to see Kerry snap the knife blade off in Bush spinal chord from the force of the blunt trama, rhetorically speaking-not this pussy shit that has been going on. Where are the nasty ads from the dems; y'all could talk about DUI's, manslaughter charges, cocain, abortion, halliburton, Plame, medicare scandal.......... But the dems have shown themselves to be pussies. There is a new Dashle add where he and Bush are embracing-how lame is that?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp...6-
2004Sep3.html
They're the Wal-Mart of home improvement
Barndog, true and what was on my mind, when that national gaurd dude accosted me. (he didn't really accost me see post above).
great nature post nc anon. that really says it. we live in this wide open beauty and many of us, even the nature lovers, spend there whole time mired in the city or the burbs.
it's a sickness really. sometimes i call it the 7/11 mainline (do they still have those stores?). nowadays i guess it's the homedepot mainline. jeebus, i gotta go nail stuff on the roof and hope we don't get any leaks.
after nov 3. i'm going to calif. or canada, we'll see.
libertarian,
you're right. civility is in the nature of dems. i, for one, am proud of that fact. that's what makes this election so difficult for me. bush finally says something that makes sense "the war on terror can't be won" and we have to jump all over it to show him as weak instead of being sensible for a change. why? because that's what the voters respond to. and THAT is what disturbs me most of all. not the possibility that bush may be president again, but the fact that i live in a country with enough voters that WANT bush to president again.
From consortium news:
"This election has become a test of whether reality still means anything to the American people, whether this country has moved to essentially a new form of government in which one side is free to lie about everything while a paid “amen corner” of ideological media drowns out any serious public debate.
For weeks now, George W. Bush’s campaign has been radically testing the limits of how thoroughly one party can lie, misrepresent and smear without paying any price and indeed while reaping rewards in the opinion polls. Bush personally capped off this binge of dishonesty with his acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention, continuing his pattern of lying about how the war in Iraq began. "
This election has become a test of whether reality still means anything to the American people, whether this country has moved to essentially a new form of government in which one side is free to lie about everything while a paid “amen corner” of ideological media drowns out any serious public debate.
For weeks now, George W. Bush’s campaign has been radically testing the limits of how thoroughly one party can lie, misrepresent and smear without paying any price and indeed while reaping rewards in the opinion polls. Bush personally capped off this binge of dishonesty with his acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention, continuing his pattern of lying about how the war in Iraq began.
This election has become a test of whether reality still means anything to the American people, whether this country has moved to essentially a new form of government in which one side is free to lie about everything while a paid “amen corner” of ideological media drowns out any serious public debate.
For weeks now, George W. Bush’s campaign has been radically testing the limits of how thoroughly one party can lie, misrepresent and smear without paying any price and indeed while reaping rewards in the opinion polls. Bush personally capped off this binge of dishonesty with his acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention, continuing his pattern of lying about how the war in Iraq began."
http://www.consortiumnews.com/20...004/
090404.html
From consortium news:
"This election has become a test of whether reality still means anything to the American people, whether this country has moved to essentially a new form of government in which one side is free to lie about everything while a paid “amen corner” of ideological media drowns out any serious public debate.
For weeks now, George W. Bush’s campaign has been radically testing the limits of how thoroughly one party can lie, misrepresent and smear without paying any price and indeed while reaping rewards in the opinion polls. Bush personally capped off this binge of dishonesty with his acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention, continuing his pattern of lying about how the war in Iraq began. "
This election has become a test of whether reality still means anything to the American people, whether this country has moved to essentially a new form of government in which one side is free to lie about everything while a paid “amen corner” of ideological media drowns out any serious public debate.
For weeks now, George W. Bush’s campaign has been radically testing the limits of how thoroughly one party can lie, misrepresent and smear without paying any price and indeed while reaping rewards in the opinion polls. Bush personally capped off this binge of dishonesty with his acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention, continuing his pattern of lying about how the war in Iraq began.
This election has become a test of whether reality still means anything to the American people, whether this country has moved to essentially a new form of government in which one side is free to lie about everything while a paid “amen corner” of ideological media drowns out any serious public debate.
For weeks now, George W. Bush’s campaign has been radically testing the limits of how thoroughly one party can lie, misrepresent and smear without paying any price and indeed while reaping rewards in the opinion polls. Bush personally capped off this binge of dishonesty with his acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention, continuing his pattern of lying about how the war in Iraq began."
http://www.consortiumnews.com/20...004/
090404.html
The Dems need to realize that facts are irrelevent, it is the marketing that matters. Kerry could still be up by 8 points if his campaign had played hardball like the repubs instead of being the nice guy. The best speech I saw Edwards give was the midnight one in Ohio where he tore Bush a new asshole. What if he had done this throughout August?
Some good advice for Kerry from tapped:
http://www.prospect.org/weblog/
a...dex.html#003923
As Matt has said, when voters get a chance to actually hear some news from Iraq, it is a huge problem for the president, for the straightforward reason that our intervention there is a gigantic catastrophe that even his base is beginning to grumble about. I believe it was Mara Liasson (I may be wrong) who said on Fox last night after Bush’s speech that when Iraq and foreign policy matters are in the headlines, it will redound to Bush’s benefit, and when domestic issues dominate, it helps Kerry. For its sake, the Kerry camp had better not buy into this idea. 2004 is not a repeat of the 2002 midterm political mood. (Not that the Dems’ strategy in dealing with that national sentiment worked in 2002 anyway.)
The attacks that have stung Kerry in the past month and during this convention have been primarily about character and secondarily about Kerry’s anti-military record as an activist and senator. Those are matters that Kerry is going to have to address and regain some ground on, undoubtedly, but I don’t think they neutralize the effect of the candidate saying simply, regularly, repeatedly: “Look at the mess in Iraq. The president did that. He misled us into war without a plan to secure the peace. You know it, I know it, he knows it.” Or something like that -- I’m no speechwriter. The point is that the Iraq occupation is too undeniably a debacle and too central to Bush’s first term for Kerry to cede the subject to him. And Kerry’s own studied vagueness on what exactly he intends to do in Iraq shouldn’t stop him from pointing out who put us in this mess in the first place. It’s a question of competence.
Answer to the 87 Billion Dollar question:
"President Bush, you are the one who threatened to veto support for the troops until you got no-bid contracts for your friends in Halliburton and tax cuts for your millionaire friends. Unfortunately for you, unlike your service during 'Nam, there is a record. "
And if Kerry talked about 'Nam the way Albert Champion does at 1:41 a.m., he'd be up by 20.
This pussy shit has to go. If Kerry has said that the reasonwhy he voted against the 87 bill is because he wanted to prevent Halliburton from stealing from the troops and taxpayers, that meme would have been dead a long time ago-the repubs would have been running away from the 87 B line.
Incognito and Jenny,
Thin sliced onion, fresh tomato and potato slices can be layered in a pre-baked tart or pie shell. Between layers, drizzle a little olive oil,sprinkle fresh chopped herb of your choice and a bit of chopped garlic, bit of salt and lots of fresh ground pepper. Beat up an egg, i cup of creme fraiche or cream, 1 cup of favorite shredded cheese. Pour this mixture over veggies, spread evenly, bake 10-12 minutes 'till golden brown. Variations are endless depending on cheese and herb selections...
More advice to Kerry.
From now on you are forbidden to say "Vietnam." From now on, it's only "'Nam." And drop in all kinds of other military jargon whenever possible. Doesn't matter that liberals won't understand, because neither will George Bush. Everyone else will lap it up like PBR at a stock car race. Also, get a crazy ass Kramer-like gleam in your eye every time you talk about it and it won't be long and you'll get the the vet vote back soon I'm sure . . .
goober must not be allowed to nominate their replacements.
????
What, you don't trust the judgement of the Supreme Ruler of the Universe?
Oh, wait, SRotU was yesterday. Today I'm just the Goober again. I turned Bill Gates loose.
Now you'll all have to buy PCs!!!
I'm looking forward to Nicholas Kristof's next column, in which he excoriates those hateful people on the left for ridiculing an obviously deranged old man.
Accusations of "Bush-bashing" are so last month. "Zell-bashing" is a meme whose time has come.
don't really like having it around, but been reluctant to throw it away in case it's a collector's item. Any suggestions?
Karin | Email | Homepage | 09.04.04 - 12:45 am | #
Sell it on ebay and donate the proceeds to the DNC.
The best speech I saw Edwards give was the midnight one in Ohio where he tore Bush a new asshole. What if he had done this throughout August?
he has been all over the battleground states for weeks; and the local press on these speeches has been great
folks are getting into Edwards a great deal; but being the challenger junior member of the ticket isn't first place media time
Sweet, sweet Julia.
Thank you. That looks so delicious! I will try it.
*
"cnn: sources say we're closing in on osama."
forgive me if i seem skeptical.
anyone got a suggestion for places i can volunteer - election wise. i can find out myself, but if anyone is actually informed as to where i might best be used. i live in dc, and can get out to parts of VA via metro. is VA up for grabs?
You have offended my honor
I demand satisfaction
I challenge you to a duel
Done
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