I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
frist?
I'll be watching the debate stoned tonite
That's just creepy
Oh, hell if the debate is already over, how come I'm still at work?
I'm glad it is already over. Whew.
I won't be watching. It makes me literally sick to my stomach to see and/or hear that arrogant smirking fuck. He keeps me up at night.
I'd appreciate anyone's advice on how they cope with having such an evil president destroying this country and getting so many people killed (and fall into poverty, etc.).
Does the AP publish lottery numbers?
WTF?
Umm...the debate hasn't happened yet. WTF?
Hey, maybe they can tell us who won the election! I'm ready to begin recriminating/celebrating now!
Cause if I win one, I'll get a tax cut!
Uh, did I miss a day somewhere?
Brilliant!
That kind of writing is familiar, somehow?
Karen Hughes, perhaps?
Hah.
Conveniently written before hand so the spinners can fill in the cosmetic details.
This is outrageous. How lazy can these so-called "journalists" get?
I really dig the "can settle for a draw" part. I would agree that the consensus of polling is that Bush is ahead, but the thought that he's comfortable enough with his lead to be complacent about his performance is absurd.
I get the feeling that the press has taken over the role of Don King in boxing. Did all these "journalists" start out on the sports beat?
Is this like tomorrow's news yesterday? Or Minitru at work? This story gives the impression the debate has happened but hasn't happened. Bleargh.
I got more shitfaced than I thought. What was in that wine? Did someone slip me a roofie? But from what I DO remember, Kerry kicked some ass.
BOOOYA! The Daily Show freakin nailed it last night on this.
I bet the AP isn't the least bit embarrased by this.
I got this request from the DNC, everyone, get ready to vote in instant polls after the debate:
National and local news organizations will be conducting online polls during and after the debate asking for readers' opinions. Look for online polls at these national news websites, and make sure to vote in every one of them:
ABC News: http://www.abcnews.com/
CBS News: http://www.cbsnews.com/
CNN: http://www.cnn.com/
Fox News: http://www.foxnews.com/
MSNBC: http://www.msnbc.com/
USA Today: http://www.usatoday.com/
And be sure to check the websites of your local newspapers and TV stations for online polls. It is crucial that you do this in the minutes immediately following the debate.
these idiots don't even realize how stupid and hollow the net makes them seem. not only is shrub and his little neocon circle jerk filled with bubble denziens, but our national media as well.
wake up, 'Hos! we're sooo onto to you. and you're beyond pathetic.
I'd appreciate anyone's advice on how they cope with having such an evil president destroying this country and getting so many people killed (and fall into poverty, etc.).
MattB
What size tin fiol hat do you wear?
OT, but what isn't?
Atrios-you must know someone in the Kerry campaign. Tell me that they have a commercial in the can featuring Bush staring into space for seven precious minutes while the United States is under attack? We all need to wage this campaign like we want to win. I contributed today to the DNC and the DSCC-matching funds deadline today!
Sweet Sue | Email | Homepage |
channeling Ed Helms of TDS.
If you caught last night's Daily Show, you saw Rob Cordy file exactly the same report.
sgc
Its easy MattB-just watch this drive.
channeling Ed Helms of TDS.
freep MSNBC now!
vote
My favorite part of the debate was when Bush pissed himself! I can't believe the AP didn't even mention that.
So good it needed to be posted twice, or, forgot to close the comments window.
Kos needs to help us fight this one:
WASHINGTON (CBS.MW) -- The Bush campaign has set up a network of Web sites to carry instant analysis of tonight's debate.
The "Debate Feed" will provide the GOP spin in real time to as many as 5,000 conservative Web outlets, according to Wired News. "Our rapid response effort is based on the premise that no attack or no misstatement will go unchallenged," Michael Turk, director of the Internet campaign, told the Web site. A "war room" is outfitted with 15 computers and two TVs, monitored by two dozen staffers, ready to send out a Republican response or comment, Wired added.
The Kerry campaign is not so well organized. It has e-mailed supporters who work with local newspapers and media, telling them the Kerry campaign will provide a response after the debate, Wired reported.
Yeah, it was a grear debate. Kerry wiped the floor with Bush. Bush was totally out of touch w/ reality and came off looking like a clown. Lookin' forward to the next one now.
Check out some of the best Bush sample songs I've ever heard.
Real Audio format.
Dick is a Killer
Imagine - Wild Side
Killer stuff. G.W. has a future in the recording industry after he goes down in Nov.
The mp3 versions are somewhere out on the web but I lost the link.
We're living on a diet of pre-processed news. No wonder people don't vote.
Kos? Yeah, and Atrios, too. Sorry.
The Daily Show is genius.
Gordon the Moron got out-fristed by the AP.
My Merck stock just took a nose-dive. Should i vote for Bush so that he'll keep me secure from people that wanna sue cause Vioxx was a fu#@-up?
whew...i feel safer now...secure...no worries
The article on TNR advising Kerry to "bend the rules" is genius. It's rare I agree with that bunch of trash.
Man, wasn't that wild when Bush's head exploded, after John Kerry called him out on the big lie about 911 and Iraq? At the very same time that Mount St. Helens errupted? Coincidence? I think not.
Sure am glad those debates are over.
My favorite part was where Bush was talking and they cut away to Karen Huges in the audience mouthing the words along with him.
the best part of the debate was when kerry made georgie cry for his mommy.
I notice with a lot of Iraq stories the lead changes but many of the following paragraphs stay the same at the AP, sometimes for days. So there isn't a lot of room for them to change the script from the assumptions they started out with - a media circus circle jerk. I think the problem lies in so many organizations cutting their news reporting staff to the bone, running the same AP stories as everyone else - the media has done an abysmal job in informing the public - I wonder how many Bush supporters would dump him if they knew what his actual positions were?
Kerry won dat shit Yo!
Holy Crap! I just saw the blimp!
I went out to buy some whine and missed the debase?
The debates were staged under a rigid set of rules negotiated by the candidates' representatives to limit spontaneity and opportunities for back-and-forth exchanges.
Should read...
The debates were staged under a rigid set of rules demanded by the Bush campaign's representatives to limit spontaneity and opportunities for back-and-forth exchanges.
I had a different take on the debate... George Bush's increasingly strident and irrational gibbering, which culminated in him tearing off the microphone and storming out with 30 minutes left and screaming "fuck you all I'm cancelling the elections!" shows him to be a decisive and honest man of the people.
I remember doing the Time Warp…!
It did seem kinda short, didn't it?
What a scoop!! I had no idea Dr. Who was writting for the AP.
Hoors. They're all Media Hoors. Makes me glad to realize I came >this close< to getting that bachelor of journalism from University of Texas back in 1982...and I failed the last class (didn't go, didn't do the work) I'd be so mortified otherwise.
Geez, I dunno how AP could have left out when Morgana the Kissing Bandit came on stage.
Cheney changed his view on Iraq
"And the question in my mind is how many additional American casualties is Saddam worth?" Cheney said then in response to a question.
"And the answer is not very damned many. So I think we got it right, both when we decided to expel him from Kuwait, but also when the president made the decision that we'd achieved our objectives and we were not going to go get bogged down in the problems of trying to take over and govern Iraq."
"All of a sudden you've got a battle you're fighting in a major built-up city, a lot of civilians are around, significant limitations on our ability to use our most effective technologies and techniques," Cheney said.
"Once we had rounded him up and gotten rid of his government, then the question is what do you put in its place? You know, you then have accepted the responsibility for governing Iraq."
Found via cursor.
The best bit was when Bush said, "you know, Senator, you are correct, I am totaly unfit to be President. I resign, effective immediately".
And there was much rejoicing.
Here are some talking points with regard to tonight's debate from MoveOn.org.
"George Lakoff, Professor of Linguistics at the University of California, has done some interesting work in connecting how people respond to political issues within a values framework. He encourages progressives to go beyond the bare facts surrounding issues to the core values that make these issues important in the first place. (He's written a great book on the topic -- see below for details.)
As Lakoff would say, there are important shared values at stake in this election -- values shared by every American. George Bush doesn't embody these values, and John Kerry does.
Here are some examples of how to frame John Kerry in terms of the American values he represents:
-Kerry will work for all Americans, not just rich Americans. He embodies the values of fairness and opportunity.
-John Kerry will bring us together to move forward, not pull us apart for political gain. He embodies the values of community and patriotism.
-John Kerry believes in working with our allies around the world, not going it alone. He embodies the values of community and shared security.
-John Kerry has fought for truth telling. He won't lie to us. He embodies the values of honesty and openness.
-John Kerry will focus us on the real challenges that face us, instead of using fear to manipulate us. He embodies the values of courage and integrity."
Did Ed Helms write this?
Kerry should read this article as his opening statement and then say, this election is the most important in my lifetime and I not going to stand for this crap. Then ignore all the stupid Bush friendly rules.
Makes me glad to realize I came >this close< to getting that bachelor of journalism from University of Texas back in 1982.
Don't sweat it Deana, most of today's "journalists" most likely have degrees in Communication. Or whatever the hell honorary degrees they are giving to ex Abercrombie and GAP employees at the better party-schools these days.
Daily Show Transcript, courtesy of Angry Bear:
STEWART: …Can we talk a little bit about what’s really going to happen at the debates tomorrow?
HELMS: [Sarcasm] Ookaay. This is the report I’m going to file. [grabs notebook and starts reading, in a quick monotone]. The two candidates exchanged pointed barbs about our Iraq policy and the war on Terror. Senator Kerry made strides towards shedding what some of his analysts call a patrician image…yadda yadda yadda…but the president with his plainspoken words was more effective in communicating his vision by relentless ...
STEWART: [interjecting] Ed. Ed, I’m sorry. You’ve written your report as though it's already happened. This is, is…
HELMS: Yeah, I wrote it yesterday.
STEWART: You write you stories in advance? And then put it in the past tense?
HELMS: Yeah. We all do. All the reporters do that.
STEWART: Why?
HELMS: We write the narratives in advance based on conventional wisdom, and then whatever happens, we make it fit that storyline.
STEWART: Why?
HELMS: We…We’re lazy. Lazy thinkers.
STEWART: But what happens if actual news happens?
HELMS: That’s what bloggers are for.
http://angrybear.blogspot.com/20...daily-
show.html
My favorite part was when the horns came out of W's head and he bellowed, "I am the antichrist..."
Dunno what AP's talking about - this doesn't sound anything like the debate as reported at Fafblog.
This probably is exactly what we'll get tomorrow as well. Good to know that money is not being spent on unnecessary reporting.
I never went to journalism school, but I'll just bet most of them teach the difference between past and future tense...
*ducks his head in shame*
I have a master's in journalism. Got it in 1995. Wasn't a total loss. Got away with a wild thesis and met my wife.
Speaking of the AP, I heard PillPopping Addict speak disdainfully of Nedra Pickler today.
He also mocked a mother who cried on CBS News because she does not want her son to be drafted by bush.
Basically, if Kerry doesn't throw a huge knock-out punch tonight, he has lost the debate before it has even happened.
My only hope at this point is that the media wants to have Kerry come from behind and win the election which would be a big dramatic story (big closer).
My favorite part was when the horns came out of W's head and he bellowed, "I am the antichrist..."
Yes, but the sort of Anti-Christ you could have a beer with.
Kerry will work for all Americans, not just rich Americans. He embodies the values of fairness and opportunity.
Vicki,
I think those are all excellent, except for the word "embodies." Real Muricans don't use that word. They say, "He's all about the values of fairness and opportunity." Drives me nuts everytime I hear that expression, but it's less "effete" than "embodies." Saying, "He's committed to the values of fairness and opportunity," would be a middle ground way to go.
STEWART: But what happens if actual news happens?
new bumper sticker:
News (Bushit) Happens!
This is American Journalism at its finest. How efficient and prescient those AP writers are. They already know what's going to happen at the debate before the debate happens!! What a modern marvel. It would make Big Brother proud.
Some how I knew this did not feel like a Thursday!
What are you complaining about? We all saw the debate down here in the bunker.
Well, just me and Kissinger. Cheney and Rumsfeld were throwing darts at a "BIN LADEN HIDEOUT" map while wolfowitz called in the airstrikes. Bush was trying to beat Casper Weinberger's old high score on Asteroids.
THEY CALL ME PASTABAGEL
P.S. Ashcroft makes a mean gin and tonic.
Some how I knew this did not feel like a Thursday!
Never could get the hang of Thursdays.
What I want to see in the debate tonight:
I want Kerry to break the rules, step out from behind his podium, walk over to GWB and give him a verbal beatdown.
They'd cut his mic, but Fox is blodthirsty enough to keep the cameras on them. And Bush could certainly hear what Kerry had to say.
I want to watch Bush make a scared chimp face as he submissively wets his pants (unfortunately, hidden behind the podium).
Yes, Kerry would go on to lose the election. So what? It would totally be worth it.
Basically, if Kerry doesn't throw a huge knock-out punch tonight, he has lost the debate before it has even happened
chimphater,
Gotta disagree. This is only the first of 3 debates. And, there's a month of campaigning left. If we GOTV Kerry will win. Let's not set ourselves up like this; the SCLM will do enough of that as it is. And let's remember that we're not just talking to ourselves tonight.
My favorite is the juxtaposition of what the candidates did: John Kerry tells us that Bush is scaring the nation, and the AP tells us he is comforting hurricane victims.
Awww....what a cuddly president we have--he not scary, he's likeable! Gak.
And to think they scolded Lewis Lapham for his clairvoyant reporting on the Repub National Convention in Harper's.
Precious, just precious.
It's official; the Daily Show is NOT "fake news" after all...just more honest than than the "real" news. ;-O
I guess our response will have to be that Bush didn't manage a draw.
Meanwhile we can ask this news agency why Kerry has to win big, but Bush only has to tie? huh?
Guy --
Thanks for the samples. Killer stuff indeed.
Amusing and informative "Prebuttal" from Kerry campaign. Political cartoons and commentary, nicely organized by theme. 'Homepage' link is to 1.4 Mb PDF from Wash Post site.
Geez, I dunno how AP could have left out when Morgana the Kissing Bandit came on stage.
John
And when the alert Secret Service agents kept shoving each other out of the way to wrestle her to the ground.
One thing you can count on Bush saying:
"We know that Saddam used gas on his own people."
If Kerry does not respond by saying:
"Yes, Saddam gassed his own people and the Reagan/Bush administration took him off of the terrorist list and Donald Rumsfeld was sent to do business with him!"
...then Kerry deserves to lose hard.
That's a fuckin' gimme that he never uses.
Any reason why he shouldn't?
Fnord: That's why i'll be watching the debate stoned, cos i know the outcome already...
Geez, I wish I could watch stoned. My wife would prolly go for it too, but she couldn't smoke with her asthma.
Man, these media whores. I've seen 'em before, obviously. I've seen people suck up to presidents and to power, and act like lickspittle toadies, and whore themselves to the highest bidder.
But never in my life have I seen so many reporters willing to lose all dignity and credibility and not look back. I've never seen so many reporters give up not just the right to think independently, but also the ability.
If the media whores of yesteryear were expensively perfumed and beribboned call girls, whose watchword was discretion, today's are scabby-faced crackheads standing on the corner in platform shoes, a ratty wig, and piss-soaked underwear, who'll blow you for a quarter and give 15 cents change.
I want Kerry to break the rules, step out from behind his podium, walk over to GWB and give him a verbal beatdown.
Called it.
THEY CALL ME PASTABAGEL
Ahead in the polls, Bush could afford to settle for a debate draw while Kerry needed something to break the status quo. Some Democrats saw the debates as the last chance for a Kerry breakout.
Kerry needs to attack the Iraq war and advocate bringing thr troops home SOON. Also, he needs to attack the Patriot Act. Attack on these issues, if he wants to win, or it's four more years for sure.
The debates were staged under a rigid set of rules negotiated by the candidates' representatives to limit spontaneity and opportunities for back-and-forth exchanges.
These rules came mostly at Bush's behest. When you're ahead, you do not want to rock the boat, but these rules are way to restictive. Why did Kerry agree?
Pot's good for asthma.
Make space cake.
I think those are all excellent, except for the word "embodies." Real Muricans don't use that word. They say, "He's all about the values of fairness and opportunity." Drives me nuts everytime I hear that expression, but it's less "effete" than "embodies." Saying, "He's committed to the values of fairness and opportunity," would be a middle ground way to go.
Hecate
"He's totally into the values of fairness and opportunity."
That's hilarious! Not surprising, really, taking into account that the questions were given to the debaters in advance; why not write the results of the debate in advance?
Soon, the debates will just turn into email flame wars between the two candidates.
To:GWB
From:JFK
Subject: STFU!
To: JFK
BCC: Dick, Rummy, Condi
From: GWB
Subject: GFY, Frenchie!
I hear Truman lost to Dewey too!
There's a rift in the temporal continuum, Captain! Shut down Warp drive!
Crap. Link was to the lousy one from Bush campaign. My bad.
Here's the PDF from Kerry (click homepage)
Hecate-
My point is that the media has already declared Kerry the loser because he is so far behind.
The expectations for Kerry are too high and the Chimp's is too low to make this a fair debate.
What the hell happened to kos?
Ahem, Dr. Welby...
I earned my B.S. by double majoring in English and "Communications"...
of course, I'm not a journalist. But I must say that majoring in Communications was quite fun (theatre, speech, oral interpretation, interpersonal communications, intrapersonal communications, small groups, etc.).
Just sayin...
Can anyone think of a disadvantage of Kerry ignoring those rules that forbid things like direct questions?
Some rules would be bad for him to break, such as time limits. Kerry needs to avoid comming off as long-winded.
But rules like directly challenging Bush could be broken without any negative spin. What would they say?
In fact, it would make him look stronger and more resolute, which could really help.
I think Kos is having technical difficulties with his site today.
I want Kerry to break the rules, step out from behind his podium, walk over to GWB and give him a verbal beatdown.
I don't think that a Jerry Springer show imitation is the solution for Kerry. Hitting hard on the war and the Patriot act is.
Today, it seems that kos is fubar. He's having server issues.
Some say that the AP is run by a bunch of totally fucked up idiots who wouldn't know real news if it bit them in the ass.
Kerry should keep pointing out that this administration is incompetant:
1) Lack of post-war planning
2) They allowed looting in Iraq
3) They prevented the marines from accomplishing their goals in fallujah
4) They implemented prisoner treatment procedures which directly led to Abu Graib
5) They transferred over soveriegnty in name only for political expediency
These points will resonate with conservative viewers.
Slightly OT, but another AP report:
New Eden, Europa Smarch 12, 2525
Eloi chief Ixnu Vandermaar said here Thursday that the Morlock military operations in the Eloi territories would only escalate the Eloi resistance.
Also,
Markets brase for poor earnings reports as the price of Soylent Green is expected to increase!
'Homepage' link is to 1.4 Mb PDF from Wash Post site.
Debate Memorandum of Understanding
Does this look like it was typed on an IBM Selectric?
God almighty, TDS is completely prescient. The newsreports of tonight's debate were written last week and the only journalism to be found is on the blogs.
This is utter, unredeemable shit.
But I must say that majoring in Communications was quite fun (theatre, speech, oral interpretation, interpersonal communications, intrapersonal communications, small groups, etc.).
Oh hell yeah, between them and the psych students (and some ed majors), there were some wild times.
Oh god, the self-inflated starch is back.
Nice frame.
This one (also via Cursor) really hits Bush in a soft spot.
Bush's Religious Language
by JUAN STAM
It is remarkable how closely Bush's discourse coincides with that of the false prophets of the Old Testament. While the true prophets proclaimed the sovereignty of Yahweh, the God of justice and love who judges nations and persons, the false prophets served Baal, who could be manipulated by the powerful. Karl Marx concluded that religion is "the opium of the people." But Marx never knew committed Christians like Camilo Torres of Colombia, Oscar Arnulfo Romero of El Salvador, Frank Pais of Cuba, Ernesto Cardenal of Nicaragua, Dietrich Bonhoeffer of Germany or Martin Luther King Jr. of the United States. How paradoxical, and how sad, that the President of the United States, with his heretical manipulation of religious language, insists on proving Karl Marx right.
dc-too:
Kerry should break the rules and ask Bush questions directly. What harm could come of it? Are they going to shut off his mike? Of course not.
Kerry has everything to gain, and very little to lose.
THEY CALL ME PASTABAGEL
Marcus
Smarch
Dude, you owe me a new non-Pepsi-covered monitor.
chimp hater,
I agree it won't be a fair debate. Kerry's not "so far behind" -- polls show a basically tied race and, as we've discussed ad infinitum, the polls are probably missing many people who will show up and vote for Kerry. I actually think the whole notion that Bush has already won the debates may play into Kerry's hands. Now, as long as he doesn't make really big blunders, he'll have performed better than everyone expects. This is just one battle in a long war, no matter what the press says.
Ahem, Dr. Welby...
I earned my B.S. by double majoring in English and "Communications"...
Sorry Vicki, I was once dumped by a Communications major. So I am rather bitter.
So, so bitter!!
My apologies.
AP must have been reading LeGuin.
“To discuss the use of tense, we have to realize that in fictional and nonfictional narrative the ‘past tense’ is not past and the ‘present tense’ is not present. Both are entirely fictive. The story, whether or not it’s based on a real event, exists only on the page. The only real present time is the reader’s.” Ursula K. Le Guin
“When we’re talking about the use of tenses in narrative prose, I’d like to call the past tense the ‘inclusive narrative tense,’ and the present the ‘focused narrative tense.” Ursula K. Le Guin
AP is not saying that the debates have already happened. They are just using the "inclusive narrative tense" in fictional narrative.
Hecate, thanks, you've made a very important point. The Media is addicted the the horse race but we have the real work to do.
what does all this have to do with orgies?
Oh god, the self-inflated starch is back.
Huh, I heard he needs Cialis, but that's just me.
Is it time to write the associated press about this?
For general questions and comments;or to contact a specific employee: info@ap.org
Okay, that's it. It's officially The Truman Show. No reason to pretend the press is actually reporting news anymore. It's much cheaper to make it up.
Saying, "He's committed to the values of fairness and opportunity," would be a middle ground way to go.
Hecate
Hecate,
I'm e-mailing your comment to MoveOn, if you don't mind. I agree with you. "Committed" is a good action word. Thanks.
"I want Kerry to break the rules, step out from behind his podium, walk over to GWB and give him a verbal beatdown."
I'm going to venture a guess the Rove and his merry band of troglodytes is well aware of this scenario.
I'm going to venture a further guess that the candidate who breaks the rules of the debate will in fact be Bush.
Rove is as devious and evil a bag of shit as you can find. It would be in keeping with his past behavior to build up this ridiculous level of rules for the express purpose of having his boy shred them all at the last minute.
Well it sounds like it was a lot of fun. I wish he'd written about the time machine he has instead of the debate. Or at least used it to kill Hitler.
The ever-amusing "some Democrats" make a reappearance in that story, once AGAIN without any attribution.
"Some Democrats say." WHO, fuckwit? Who are they? Quote them!
Dammit.
A.
The debate's focus on Iraq was sharpened by bombings in Baghdad Thursday that killed three dozen children.
Has this happened yet? Pre-releasing their debate coverage is one thing, but this is downright creepy...
If the media whores of yesteryear were expensively perfumed and beribboned call girls, whose watchword was discretion, today's are scabby-faced crackheads standing on the corner in platform shoes, a ratty wig, and piss-soaked underwear, who'll blow you for a quarter and give 15 cents change.
ah, why does that remind me of southbeach?
Isn't it about time someone cued the Rod Sterling naration and ran the Ovaltine commercial? COntrol Room? Anyone there?
Folks. I've been on this board the last few weeks making comment after comment that Kerry simply isn't making me feal confident in his ability to say the right thing during this campaign.
And I'll say it yet again. Each time he opens his mouth he says something that doesn't impact me in the slightest. It's boring and doesn't seem to address anything.
Most important of all is how he doesn't saying anything that fence sitters would find important or thought provoking.
Everywhere I read I see quotes, more than likely dumbed down with all meaning removed, that don't leave me thinkingthat Kerry said anything at all.
I hated his convention speach, I hated his appearance on the Daily Show, and everytime he sticks his nose out to speak he sounds like Dukakis.
I'm still voting for him, and I'm sure he will run the country far better than Bushboy, but the more he opens his mouth the less something coherent comes out.
But I have blind fact in hoping that they have saved the best for the debates. I'm hoping that Kerry comes out, breaks the rules, and asks Bush..
"DID YOU ORDER A CODE RED?!!"
In hopes that mr arrogance will show his true colors and respond in kind..
"YOU BET YOUR SWEET ASS I DID!!"
MYOB'
.
Okay, that's it. It's officially The Truman Show. No reason to pretend the press is actually reporting news anymore. It's much cheaper to make it up.
And more fun, too.
THEY CALL ME PASTABAGEL
Hm, was going to send abcnews a comment, but, a from the faq:
Q: I want to send my comment, suggestion, or opinion.
A: We do not personally respond to comments, opinions and suggestions. If applicable, they are forwarded on to the appropriate department for review.
no link or email addr that I can find...
ah, why does that remind me of southbeach?
Blowjobs are low in carbs and sugar?
Kerry should break the rules and ask Bush questions directly. What harm could come of it? Are they going to shut off his mike? Of course not.
The only thing to be careful of, I think, is pulling a Lazio (sp). I think I remember him 'losing' that debate with then senate-candidate hillary by being too strong in trying to get her to sign some pledge.
Strong is required, just not overdone. I agree, I'd like to see him stretch the rules. Get Bushie to sweat, and he'll botch something "big-time"
Having not read all of the comments here yet, I have to ask:
Am I alone in noticing that all of the coverage of the latest car bombings has effectively hidden the 10 US soldiers killed, choosing to emphasize the deaths of the children?
Indeed, reading all of the headlines, you'd be unaware that any US servicepeople had been killed.
Is that an accident or a decision?
Life imitates the Daily Show? They had a sketch on this last night and they nailed it.
At least we now know the narrative to follow so that we don't accidentally go off message and mess things up in tonight's blog threads.
Go for it Vicki. As I said, I think the general formulation is a great idea. I can never stop wordsmithing is all. It's a disease, really.
Personally I think the candidates (particularly Bush) encourage this kind of crap by agreeing to scripted debates. If the candidates refuse to have a real debate, then why should the AP file real stories?
How John Kerry could win easily:
"My fellow Americans, after much heart searching, I have decided that - in the interest of humanity - I renounce the War on Drugs and promise that marijuana and hemp will be legal for recreational and industrial use by the end of the first half of the first year of my first term."
My email to the Associated Press
Most of us out here realize this is a very tight contest and know that Bush has a very unfavorable record to run on (war, chaos in Iraq, tanking economy) and that it is Bush who is on the defensive. Please DO NOT GIVE US SLANTED COVERAGE of this very important event. I notice early on in your story you present Kerry as trailing, and as a flip flopper (a Republican attack rather than substantiated fact.) Please serve all your readers fairly, stick to the facts and not attacks or innuendos. I especially am looking for coverage much more substantive than 2000's memorably poor debate which gave us coverage of Gore's sighs rather than Bush's lies.
Thank you.
No sweat, Marcus, just teasing you, anyway.
here's a good line from the wsj reporter's email:
"If under Saddam it was a 'potential' threat, under the Americans it has been transformed to 'imminent and active threat,' a foreign policy failure bound to haunt the United States for decades to come."
Fnord: That's why i'll be watching the debate stoned, cos i know the outcome already...
Gordon The Moron
I'm hanging with Gordon tonight, man!
Hey, any debate drinking games out there?
-
I got this request from the DNC, everyone, get ready to vote in instant polls after the debate:
But who is it, exactly, that cares about Internet polls???
Man. If you Google "They Call Me Pastabagel," you'll get a lot of interesting hits. You think the shit he posts here is deluded and dumb, check out some of the other places he's been busy!
We're fortunate in that we only get his defiant tagline once. On a lot of sites, he uses it twice, to bookend his comments!
He's another Spidle, basically...his main angle is blogwhoring, and it looks like he'll post ANYWHERE if there's the slightest chance it'll drive traffic to his site.
He shows up on Free Republic a lot. The funny thing is, even THOSE guys tell him he's full of shit, as often as not. His recent "analysis" of Al Sadr got him a number of cogent dopeslaps...from FREEPERS, for fuck's sake!
He also got this nice comment: "I refuse to click on unknown, personal blogs when you could just as easily post the WHOLE article. Stop pimping for blog hits."
Looks like they call him a lot of names besides Pastabagel! What a stooge.
Stephen Colbert already told us this news last night on the Daily Show. Our country is screwed.
Stephen Colbert already told us this news last night on the Daily Show. Our country is screwed.
Personally I think the candidates (particularly Bush) encourage this kind of crap by agreeing to scripted debates. If the candidates refuse to have a real debate, then why should the AP file real stories?
Falstaff
Because they're supposed to be a friggin news organization?
While it does make it look preordained, I'm sure that this was written for early a.m. editions, the editions that have deadlines before the debate will be over. Some early editions probably have to be out the door by 10 p.m.
Be on the lookout tonight on ABC for Buckaroo Banzai and Future History. (Or am I thinking of John Whorfin?)
hopefully Lehrer isn't on valium this go round. And hopefully Ifill doesn't try to prove how white she is.
Just me
I heard the 10 US troops were wounded. Did they die?
Kerry should pull out the 32 page Memo of Understanding and turn to George and say,
"Mr. President, this is the memo of understanding governing these debates, (rip memo) why are you afraid to debate the real issues that face our great nation. Let's leave the restrictions on the floor and have an honest discussion about where America is going."
"The truth is, the postscripts have already been written."
-- Jon Stewart, on "Fresh Air" today
I'm surprised they didn't mention the part where Bush's earpiece started malfunctioning and he grabbed his head and started going "Owwwww!!! Owwww!!!! Turn it down, Karl!!!!"
dc-too:
I think what Lazio did wrong is walk over to hillary and crowd her space , which was only considered wrong because she was a woman and it appeared threatening.
But if he justs asks questions from his podium, what is the moderator (Jim Lehrer?) going to do:
"That DOES IT! Senator, you are banned from NewsHour!!"
THEY CALL ME PASTABAGEL
Am I alone in noticing that all of the coverage of the latest car bombings has effectively hidden the 10 US soldiers killed, choosing to emphasize the deaths of the children?
Just Me? 09.30.04 - 3:47 pm | #
Dead kids are more of a news story then dead soldiers. Ask the Russians.
I hate to say it, but somebody on our side made a mistake on this one. If you are a target you do not surround yourself with children, especially at a planned event (in this case the opening of sewage plant). It is a hard lesson to keep relearning.
Bush is going to try and score some points off the 36 children his screw-up got killed today. He'll link it to Chechnya and back to 9/11.
Some good may come of all this in the far future (if there is a future) as kids in school are shown ancient video of the biggest fucking liar that ever conned the USA in a lesson titled 'Never Again'.
it's possible that the AP may have miscalculated what Kerry has up his sleeve for tonight in posting their template (as though it's some kind of breaking story that they what to get first crack at).
the part about bush's stategy couldn't be far off -- the prevaricator-in-chief is a walking fossil, a hunch-backed troglodytic piece of whore
Un-Be-Leave-Ah-Bull. Maybe THIS should be pushed post-debate.
Hmmmm..., so I'm to take from this: "Bush had a debate strategy of being optimistic about Iraq but acknowledging that times were tough. His stance is that Americans know he is a decisive leader even if they don't always agree with his decisions and that Kerry has taken conflicting positions on Iraq and can't be trusted to lead the nation." that the AP is part of Bush's debate preparation team? Hopefully Kerry'll see this and plan accordingly.
"While it does make it look preordained, I'm sure that this was written for early a.m. editions, the editions that have deadlines before the debate will be over. Some early editions probably have to be out the door by 10 p.m.
Smitty Werbenmanjensen"
Perhaps, but ABC News already has it up at their website.
Kerry's biggest constituency:
KerryHatersForKerry.com
While it does make it look preordained, I'm sure that this was written for early a.m. editions, the editions that have deadlines before the debate will be over. Some early editions probably have to be out the door by 10 p.m.
Smitty Werbenmanjensen
I'm sorry, but AP distributes news throughout the world and must be held to the highest standard. If, in fact, this was prepared for an early edition, it should have signified clearly and consistently that it was merely a pre-debate analysis and not a recap of an event which has yet to happen. Shit like this is why we have an administration with has run unchecked from its election-stealing inception until the president, with mass casualties and suffering in between.
No excuses for an irresponsible media.
The Nation’s Russ Baker looked a little further into Georgie’s fear of flying.
"A new source has emerged with what she says is personal knowledge about why George W. Bush prematurely left his Texas National Guard unit in 1972--because nerves, fear and a possible drinking problem were affecting his ability to pilot his F-102A plane. If true, this information further confirms a growing body of evidence that Bush has not been candid about his departure from his unit..."
Philalethes writes:
"If the media whores of yesteryear were expensively perfumed and beribboned call girls, whose watchword was discretion, today's are scabby-faced crackheads standing on the corner in platform shoes, a ratty wig, and piss-soaked underwear, who'll blow you for a quarter and give 15 cents change."
No, no, what the AP did was file a story that can be "topped" by actual events, to speed things along, especially at papers that aren't covering the debate themselves.
In the old days, meaning pre-internet, only AP subscribers/members got these stories.
It may seem lazy but it's because the debates are set so late at night for newspaper deadlines that they're trying to plan ahead, leaving space on their pages for this story. Having it written ahead, while waiting for the top, also allows them to see what the story contains, so that if there are secondary, sidebar stories, running with it, they can watch for duplication or contradiction between the stories. You can be assured that tomorrow, your local rag will run at least half of the story you've already read.
This explanation is totally aside from the tone/content of what the AP has provided.
Know what I really love about the article? It's the "CORAL GABLES, Fla. Sept. 30, 2004" at the beginning. I always thought that meant that the article was written in Coral Gables, Florida on Sept. 30, 2004. But writing this article could have been outsourced to India and written two days ago. Ah well, another of my cherished illusions goes the way of the dodo bird.
Bush is going to try and score some points off the 36 children his screw-up got killed today. He'll link it to Chechnya and back to 9/11.
I hope he tries to pull that, because it leads directly to Kerry's rebuttal: then, Mr. President, the world is clearly less safe today than it was before you invaded Iraq, before circumstance placed before you the monumental and grave responsibility of the war against those who would do us harm. You have failed to make us safer around the world through a diversion into Iraq, and I intend to take your place and clean up this awful mess you have made horribly worse.
Eveybody: krsaz makes a lot of sense...kerry should challenge chimpy to throw ayaw the MOU and let the moderator and the audience ask them any questions they want about foreign policy... i bet this would put pressure on chimpy right off the bat..he should not do it like lazio though by crowding chimpy's space...
all he needs to do is look straight into the camera and call chimpy on it noting that america deserves better...what do u guys think?
revision: call him "Mr. Bush" not "Mr. President."
Something big's going to happen tonight at the debates. I can just feel it.
How did a stumbling idiot who isnt' qualified to be dog catcher let along leader of the free world end up in the White House?
Kerry must be on top form and hammering Bush on issues and not bother answering Bush's coached charges. Can you imagine Clinton getting a piece of this Bush in a debate....I pray Kerry is himself tonight, non scripted, which is as close to Clinton as you are going to get.
Can't wait
the only thing we can do is watch. if anything significant is going to happen, it will be a surprise. i'm not so surprised the media is casting there lot with bush, they did afterall help him get his little war on. to confess the war was/is wrong would be to confess they are wrong. and we have seen how reticent they are to do that.
of course kerry has this problem too, it's ok, i forgive him, he's a congress critter, but i will ask this, didn't hitler have someone like rove?
finally, if you are on the southbeach diet, ding dong you're wrong, carbs are essential. altho blow jobs are good, stay away from the crack whores.
Why can't Kerry just come out and say:
"Does George Bush even know the meaning of the word 'accountability'? I won't ask him to pronounce it."
Bush is going to try and score some points off the 36 children his screw-up got killed today
And that is when my head will explode. I can't take much more of this man who willingly murders and wounds children for his own petty ends. I really can't. My Goddess, it's enough to make a stone cry.
I think Kerry should've said, "Give Bush the questions in advance if he wants them. I don't need them. I'm ready to answer any question anyone asks."
That would've been nice.
Some say that the AP is run by a bunch of totally fucked up idiots who wouldn't know real news if it bit them in the ass.
commie atheist | Email | Homepage | 09.30.04 - 3:37 pm | #
Some say that the AP is a bunch of mindless jerks, who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes.
Slightly OT, but what will the effect of Fox News cameras be? They can decide how to show the debaters. Will we see Bush through a gauze and Kerry with red downlights slowly seeping down his face like rivulets of blood?
Did anyone see the Daily Show last night? One of the skits was on the the debate--all in the past tense. Sometimes reality is stranger than fiction, I guess.
Did anyone see the Daily Show last night? One of the skits was on the the debate--all in the past tense. Sometimes reality is stranger than fiction, I guess.
Will Kerry say something stupid like...
"If you don't believe [such & such], then don't vote for me."
?
Editoress - Here's the thing: I think that your explanation is just another excuse for "Journalists" to be lazy. You and I both know that despite any procedural reasons for doing this, this story will run in AP reports tomorrow with very little alteration, unless something outrageous happens tonight, and then it will be plugged into this template.
Has AP and have other news services always done it this way? Or is this relatively new? So, it's late. What did they used to do, back before the pre-digested everything for us? I suspect reporters actually used to stay up and get the real story.
I see no valid excuse for this. It's supposed to be news, it's supposed to be about what actually happened.
This is total bullshit.
This "debate" is a joke, an absolute fucking sham. Me, I'm going to see They Might be Giants instead. I'd rather laugh than cry.
Apparently they will not control editing. they will have 6 cams running and each network will edit as it sees fit. It seems ok on the surface, but I have my doubts.
I see no valid excuse for this. It's supposed to be news, it's supposed to be about what actually happened.
This is total bullshit.
Tena
Amen.
Got away with a wild thesis and met my wife. - John
So, your admitting to a possible infringment of the Endangered Species act and the personal morals laws of your state? [/limbaugh]
What were Americans doing drawing children into what was apparently a potential target (the soldiers, children, and car bombs were there for an infrastructure ribbon-cutting, prime soft target)? I'm all for giving kids candy, but I'd like to know if risks were being taken unnecessarily, especially if there was, let's say, and official government cameraman there to catch some good PR ahead of the debate. My hunch is, though, that probably there were kids around and the soldiers just, uh, happened to have large quantities of, uh, candy on them that, uh, wasn't melted. Wait, now that seems odd as well...
Note: the terrorists (and that's what the perpetrators of this act clearly are, don't call this insurgency) are the only ones to blame, but it'd be an extra layer of tragic if the toll didn't have to be as high as it turned out to be...
Relevant info from MSNBC.com article: "The children, who were still on school vacation, said they had been drawn to the scene by American soldiers handing out candy.
The Americans called us, they told us, ‘Come here, come here,’ asking us if we wanted sweets. We went beside them, then a car exploded...”
Just Me?
I was wondering about that the story doesn't include anything about the 10 soldiers.
With those cameras, they can make you look anyway they want. They'll probably shoot Bush with a vaseline smeared lens and a halo above his head but Kerry will look starkly like an orange pumpkin head.
Supposedly it was to celebrate the re-opening of a water treatment plant.
Then the shit hit the fans...
Where is the AP site. I can't find it. Can anyone give the the e-mail so i can chew their ears off?
Another FReeper speaks out against PastaBagel:
"People generally respond better to self-promotion around here if you occasionally post something other than links to your own website. In other words, if you're participating rather than freeloading JimRob's bandwith."
Ouch!
krsaz, have you found any evidence for these 10 phantom soldiers outside of this blog's haloscan forums? I don't think they exist. I think it's cross-pollenation between the car bomb incident in which 10 soldiers were injured, the 10 new hostages, and the various other going-ons around Iraq.
I'm fairly sure 10 soldiers did not die in the car bombing, nor in any other incident in Iraq today, and that's why it's not in the report. It didn't happen.
I could be wrong.
So, your admitting to a possible infringment of the Endangered Species act and the personal morals laws of your state? [/limbaugh]
Quiet, sweetie. The drugs are doing talking the again.
OT- But has anyone else been having trouble reloading the main page the
last couple of days?
Kerry/Edwards in a LANDSLIDE!!
"....the future's uncertain and the end is always near...."
1 soldier died, I thought.
The rest were collateral damage.
It doesn't matter if this is the traditional wire-service trick of writing a story and then topping it with ledes as the event progresses. (And there are very appropriate times to do this, as with some elderly famous person's obit, or a political speech where the speech text has been delivered to the media beforehand specifically so they can file these canned wire stories.) Why doesn't it matter? Because in this case, they are publishing a *guess* of what might happen and claiming it actually happened. That's insane.
ABCNews.com -- or any of the other thousands of public news publications marketed to the public -- is not a secret subscription system for editors who "know the tricks." It's a public source of news. AP & ABC should be ashamed by this, but of course they won't be.
US Media: Just lazy & inept, or intentional distributors of disinformation?
Notice how Pastabagel has changed his approach? Rather than outright hostility and trollery, he now pretends to have a less wing-y stance, although he still possesses a childlike ability to utterly miss the point of whatever he talks about. I guess that he wasn't getting enough hits before. Pastabagel, no matter how you behave, we'll all still know that you have nothing to contribute.
Bush to voters in the debate:
"This Kerry guy wants to take you back to the terrible Clinton years of prosperity at home and peace around the world and if you vote for me I will make sure that that doesn't happen ever again....".*Smirk*
We knew a guy who gave an entire MRE (half his food for a 24 hour period or more) to a roadside kid we were driving by, and this was amid universal donation of "whatever you don't want" from everybody's MRE's. The Iraqis took it for granted too: the road was lined with people trying to buy things with worthless money, trying to sell things, and wound up getting donated things even though these, the First Capitalists, are never really beggars.
So we seriously doubt this thing about evil Americans luring kids to a bomb. Stupid naive kids with guns who think they're going to make up for smashing neighborhoods at a time in the annihilation of a city with a few pieces of candy, not realizing that they themselves are the most dangerous and endangering things in the country, yes, but not "on purpose."
"....the future's uncertain and the end is always near...."
Jim Morrison
Especially when you're an obese, washed-up drunk with a dope problem.
My hunch is, though, that probably there were kids around and the soldiers just, uh, happened to have large quantities of, uh, candy on them that, uh, wasn't melted.
I'm inclined to give our troops a pass on this one. It may have been spontaneous; the soldiers had some candy and wanted to share it with the kids. Maybe I'm still not cynical enough, but I'd like to think that, while perhaps not brilliant, this was meant as a nice gesture. The kids we're sending over to Iraq are human and probably want to be seen as kind by the Iraqis.
As noted upthread the terrorists are the ones to blame for this, but so is Bush. Our soldiers should never have been in Iraq to start with, blowing up buildings, killing people, or handing out candy.
revision: call him "Mr. Bush" not "Mr. President."
dc-too
You run the danger of being insulting if you don't refer to his title, and Kerry does not want to come off as being petty.
This is outrageous. How lazy can these so-called "journalists" get?
Julius Civitatus
hmmm, wire-service journalist writes a "setup" piece (very simply, a placeholder for newspaper early editions), which means said journalist actually winds up doing TWICE as much work (since he'll have to update it with the debate), and people here call that being "lazy." Wow.
If you want to quarrel with the content of the story, fine, but this bitching about the "time warp" (same with stories based on prepared texts) is getting old. That's how wire services work -- that's what their customers want -- and you're wasting your energy complaining about it. (Repeat, I'm talking only about the fact that a story like this is filed before an event, not the content of this particular piece.)
Pet peeve #2, also in the Why The Hell Is Anyone Wasting Time On This Dept.:
I got this request from the DNC, everyone, get ready to vote in instant polls after the debate:
If the DNC actually sent this out, you couldn't ask for a clearer sign that the party is absolutely fucked. Instead of sitting there voting in as many meaningless bogus "polls" as you can find, how about spending the time making the case for Kerry to an undecided voter?
[/rant]
That last in response to Mexican Radio.
But will Big John earn the $6000 (or is it 8+K) for breaking the rules and asking ONE SIMPLE QUESTION?
God I would love that.
Stupid naive kids with guns who think they're going to make up for smashing neighborhoods at a time in the annihilation of a city with a few pieces of candy, not realizing that they themselves are the most dangerous and endangering things in the country, yes, but not "on purpose."
team leaders kei & yuri
Well said. I suspect you're right.
Perhaps, but ABC News already has it up at their website. - commie atheist
Interestingly, the version on the AP website has the tenses changed to future for the first few paragraphs before reverting to the past tense for everything.
As far as journos go, I don't trust them since working on the school paper in undergrad: I was sent to cover an event (I was trying to be an opinion writer, but you had to do an article outside of your intended area in order to get hired) - I did the best job which I could (which admittedly was not that good), but when my article ran, the editor added a coauthor who decided to change my accurate words to words that were more common but sounded good ... for example, the event on which I was reporting was supposed to be a one time only event, but somehow the editor and his crony reporter had in mind that it would be an annual event, so they described it as "the first annual" event.
Admittedly, because the event was so late in the news cycle (we had a weekly, but the event was Sat. night and the paper was to be finished on Sunday) I did "pre-write" the story. But I gave them an updated version that had some commentary from the event itself. They completely ignored those additions in addition to changing words in the story I had earlier submitted to them into stuff that sounded better but was less accurate.
Unfornately, AP seems no better than a college weekly paper.
The drugs are doing talking the again.
Er, the drug are doing the talking again.
Bloody heroin, always getting in the way of typing.
Here's the beginning of the AP wire report. This might help:
Sep 30, 4:08 PM EDT
Series of Baghdad Bombings Leave 42 Dead
By ALEXANDRA ZAVIS
Associated Press Writer
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- A series of bombs killed 35 children and seven adults Thursday as U.S. troops handed out candy at a government ceremony to inaugurate a new sewage treatment plant. Hours earlier, a suicide blast killed a U.S. soldier and two Iraqis on the capital's outskirts.
The bombs in Baghdad's al-Amel neighborhood caused the largest death toll of children in any insurgent attack since the conflict in Iraq began 17 months ago.
"The Americans called us, they told us, 'Come here, come here,' asking us if we wanted sweets. We went beside them, then a car exploded," said 12-year-old Abdel Rahman Dawoud, lying naked in a hospital bed with shrapnel embedded all over his body.
Two bombs went off in quick succession at the ceremony about 1 p.m., then were followed by a third explosion a short distance away, said Interior Ministry spokesman Col. Adnan Abdul-Rahman. He said there were two suicide car bombs and one roadside bomb; the Americans said all three were car bombs.
The explosions killed 42 people and wounded 141, including 10 U.S. soldiers. The wounded included 72 children under the age of 14, said Dr. Mohammed Salaheddin.
Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari said he was disturbed by the televised images of the attacks, and he denounced the "criminal gangs, terrorists or Saddamists who are trying to undermine iraq, to undermine the political process."
He also said the ongoing violence showed how important it was to quickly train Iraqi military and security forces and improve intelligence gathering so the country does not fall to control of militants.
"The Iraqi people have suffered enough at the hands of these people," Zebari said on CNN, speaking from London. "We want a new Iraq, a different Iraq."
The day of violence across Iraq, including insurgent attacks and U.S. airstrikes in Fallujah, left a total of 46 people dead and 208 wounded.
Even Saddam called him "Mr. Bush."
What kei & yuri said. There's a national outrage deficit over what's going on, let's save it for Abu Ghraib and whatever hay Chimpy McCokespoon makes of the dead children tonight.
I used to think his administration was cynically playing on the idea that Americans can't tell brown people apart. Now I seriously think the administration can't, either. Wear a turban? Face the east in prayer? You're a terrorist.
I don't know what's scarier: the idea that they're that stupid, or that they think we are and are evilly profiting from it.
A.
yoyoyoyoyo:
How about turning it sideways and sitting on it, troll?
Yeah, I agree, the US soldiers maybe shouldn't have done it, but their hearts were in the right place almost certainly. The timing is just horrific. That the kids had just been called over by troops for candy, and that's when the bombs went off. If the terrorists set them off on purpose when the kids were there, seeing that as an opportunity...
Oh god, the self-inflated starch is back. - Vicki Stein
Nice one. First it got under my radar, straight through my right eye, and down the optic nerve. Then, 10 seconds later, it blew out my cognition center.
"finally, if you are on the southbeach diet, ding dong you're wrong, carbs are essential. altho blow jobs are good, stay away from the crack whores.
charley"
The South Beach diet doesn't eliminate carbs, it emphasizes good carbs over bad carbs, and doesn't make the Atkins mistake of ignoring fat content, especially in dairy products.
An unsolicited endoresement from someone who has lost a ton of weight while on the diet.
You run the danger of being insulting if you don't refer to his title, and Kerry does not want to come off as being petty
Nah, this is a democracy. He should start out with "Mr. Bush" and go to "George" if he can. Calling him Mr. President is a self-fufilling prophecy. Besides, this guy was never elected to be the president.
The Nation’s Russ Baker looked a little further into Georgie’s fear of flying.
Flying a high-performance jet with a hangover would have to be a really bad scary experience.
Where is the AP site. I can't find it. Can anyone give the the e-mail so i can chew their ears off?
McAdder
For general questions and comments;or to contact a specific employee: info@ap.org
And here's the report from the NY Times:
...In the car bomb attack, 10 American soldiers were wounded, the military said in a statement issued in Baghdad. Eight were treated for minor wounds and two had wounds that required evacuation to a medical facility, the statement said. There were also a number of Iraqi casualties, the military said without providing further details.
Mexican Radio: but we mean their hearts are in the wrong place. Americans uniformed and not are dangerous and endangering, they're not something kids should be near, and that candy is not to fill some kid's stomach, it's to try to justify the rape of a nation.
krsaz, have you found any evidence for these 10 phantom soldiers outside of this blog's haloscan forums?
No I haven't, that is why I asked the question, however, if 32 children died while soldiers were handing them candy, I think it is a logical assumtion that some of the soldiers probably were involved in the blast. I do not know if they died and I haven't said that. I am curious as to the fact that there was no mention of casualties or deaths of soldiers in the report.
Considering it's a sound bite contest rather than a debate, this seems fitting to me. But do we need further proof that media control our shared perception of reality?
Anybody know what Kerry is going to be wearing tonite?
Wouldn't it be fantastic if the pundits spent all their time talking about how great Kerry looked and ignored Bush's message all together?
There's no harm in knowing now since this is probably what Maureen Dowd will talk about first?
"Kerry dazzled the crowds with an Armani suit, a Tissot sports watch, and socks that Tommy Hilfinger spent all week supervising his slaves in a Pakistani swet shop trying to weave! Call it a game folks cause Kerry's got the GQ vote all wrapped up!"
MYOB'
.
Why don't you...
spread the meme: "Bush is bubble boy"?
You run the danger of being insulting if you don't refer to his title, and Kerry does not want to come off as being petty
Nah, this is a democracy. He should start out with "Mr. Bush" and go to "George" if he can. Calling him Mr. President is a self-fufilling prophecy. Besides, this guy was never elected to be the president.
I dunno about calling him "George," but Mr. Bush is respectful and Mr. President is giving in to a subtle point. I'd just stick with "Mr. Bush".
So we seriously doubt this thing about evil Americans luring kids to a bomb. Stupid naive kids with guns who think they're going to make up for smashing neighborhoods at a time in the annihilation of a city with a few pieces of candy, not realizing that they themselves are the most dangerous and endangering things in the country, yes, but not "on purpose."
team leaders kei & yuri
Oh, the three dozen children were killed before this article was written. That’s a relief.
Thing is, didn't all the right-wing assholes give Lewis Lapham the Dan Rather treatment after he "reported" on the RNC hatefest before it started?
How can these creeps dare to turn around and do the exact same thing?
Oh, I forgot: IOKIYAR!
OT (Israel!)
It's Worse than Just Having Cancer When You Have Cancer in Illegally Occupied Land (and depend on several snarky yet heavily armed 20-year-olds to go anywhere).
Am I alone in noticing that all of the coverage of the latest car bombings has effectively hidden the 10 US soldiers killed, choosing to emphasize the deaths of the children? Indeed, reading all of the headlines, you'd be unaware that any US servicepeople had been killed.
Where did you read that 10 soldiers were killed?
The news bulletin currently up reads:
"The explosions killed 42 people and wounded 141, including 10 U.S. soldiers."
which I would read as 10 US Soldiers were wounded. In another news article, there is a reference to one soldier being killed today.
While this debate commentary was enlightning, I feel that it failed to address the most serious issues of the debate which we, the enlightened media, will be discussing endlessly by 9:45, such as Kerry's casual 'hands in pockets' stanch ... does it indicate the unconditional surrender in fine Frenchie form, or does it just show an unamerican contempt to the working people of this country? Also, Bush's 'white knuckle podium deathgrip' ... does it show bold leadership, decisive leadership, or bold decisive leadership? We must get these questions to the American people!
GN--
What would you say if you picked up an early edition of a newspaper that had NO debate news because we're holding AP to a standard of not being able to preview a news event? Would you view that newspaper as being more responsible? Or would you charge that it's being irresponsible because it didn't carry any news about the debate?
If you notice, the AP report says absolutely nothing about what happens in the debate. It merely provides context for the debate.
So we seriously doubt this thing about evil Americans luring kids to a bomb. Stupid naive kids with guns who think they're going to make up for smashing neighborhoods at a time in the annihilation of a city with a few pieces of candy, not realizing that they themselves are the most dangerous and endangering things in the country, yes, but not "on purpose."
team leaders kei & yuri
I really don't mean to be obtuse, and maybe this was answered somewhere else, but at the risk of getting flamed at the stake, who is "we"? Do kei and yuri work for the DNC or Media Matters?
(flamed at the stake? flamed at the steak...Mmmmm. That's it. First and last simpsons reference, I promise.)
THEY CALL ME PASTABAGEL
"There's no harm in knowing now since this is probably what Maureen Dowd will talk about first"
BWHAHAHAaaaa!!!
You are so right.
Kei and Yuri: Well, now you're just sort of splitting hairs. "Heart in the right place" means you think you're doing something good to pretty much everyone. Your heart can be in the right place even as you're doing something that is counterproductive, and in fact that context is when the phrase is most often employed! So while I appreciate your analysis that American soldiers are dangerous in their function as targets for the terrorists in Iraq, but snarking at me and consciously changing a common phrase to mean what you need it to mean in the process, I don't understand that too much.
A friend of mine came up with a good one today.
John Kerry said in a speech the other day that W stand for WRONG. The President responded saying "My middle name doesn't start with an 'R'!"
What is Pastaliar's point in quoting us? Is this one of those things that's supposed to be self-evident?
Kids? Candy? Party at the sewage plant?!?
COME ON!
Look at me with a straight face and tell me that the Pentagon didn't manufacture that story...
MYOB:
Kerry will be wearing the suit Gregory Peck wore as Atticus Finch.
His sear-sucker is at the cleaners.
So whats with this "only 5 weeks until the election" bullshit? 5 weeks is an eternity these days. The people who are going to actually decide the election aren't even going to make up their minds until the day before at the earliest. Well, unless AP knows something about the end of this story we don't. And if the the demo gotv works with all the new registrants that might be the key.
HERES A POLL WE'RE LOSIN'!!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6092749/
GO VOTE
k&y:
That first post got screwed up. I resent it and was subsequently posted correctly.
THEY CALL ME PASTABAGEL
Wouldn't it be a kicker if Kerry were to coat his shaking hand with some sort of itching powder? Of course he would have been given some sort of injection before the debate to keep it from affecting him, but I just can't help but imagine what it would be like seeing how the crowd responds to seeing Georgie boy scratching his hands like a dog in a tick convention?
I can imagine tomorrow's headlines..
"Bush's palms too hairy, blames chronic masterbation as cause."
MYOB'
.
I submitted all my questions to the Bush team over the weekend... I'm just giving you guys a heads-up already...
And yes, wire services have always done it this way.
In fact, many prewrite events so, in a competitive field, they can get the news out first. For example, you better believe that every single wire service has a standing obituary for George W. Bush--with blanks for cause of death and age--so that they can put their news on the wire first. During the period when companies are reporting quarterly earnings, reporters have pre-written stories with blanks left for the important statistics contained in the earnings reports, to be filled in when the reports come out.
Wire services have customers, and customers aren't interested in wire services that report too slowly.
They used to have a saying in the news business: "UPI got it first, but AP got it right."
hmmm, wire-service journalist writes a "setup" piece (very simply, a placeholder for newspaper early editions), which means said journalist actually winds up doing TWICE as much work (since he'll have to update it with the debate), and people here call that being "lazy." Wow.
If you want to quarrel with the content of the story, fine, but this bitching about the "time warp" (same with stories based on prepared texts) is getting old.
Bullshit. What you are saying makes no sense. Why bother to write a "set-up piece" as a "placeholder" if there is no intention to use the piece as "news"? I'm sure that most of that story will be contained in published reports tomorrow morning. Don't defend the indefensible. The press needs the silly slapped out of it, and this is a prime example.
MYOB:
Kerry will be wearing the suit Gregory Peck wore as Atticus Finch.
His sear-sucker is at the cleaners.
Oh, swoon. Peck as Atticus was my first ever crush.
A.
Hecate and DC:
Ok, I'm a rational human being who can change his mind about something when faced with a logical argument, dosen't mean I'm a flip-flopper. I agree with you.
Mr. Bush is probably more appropriate because you don't want to concede the president title. Plus if Bush get's snarky and asks to be refered to as Mr. President, Kerry can always say, well you have to get elected first.
Mexican Radio: we didn't mean to sound snarky and apologize. You're right, it's not much of a difference, but we wanted the difference to be clear nonetheless. That's one of our problems with charity, like the way the more conservative elements of the Catholic Church will try to keep charity going as a scam and as part of perpetuating the causes of it: Mother Teresa actually said something about how great it is that we have poor people and how they accept their lot in life.
Pastaliar: That's your question? Why is there more than one of us and does number have anything to do with the DNC? (well, diversity certainly does, but that's not the same thing...)
And Halowise we're having dhimmilar sifficulties.
eric @ 3:45:
Form is available here.
HTH.
The funniest part of the debate was when Bush, in a moment that eerily recounted his father, vomitted on John Kerry as they shook hands.
I just want to make clear I was not saying there was any involvement by any American (anywhere) with any of the bombs. I was just worried that yet again Bush or his lower level administrative remnants in Iraq put people in harms way through negligence or carelessness in order to get a good photo op (Iraq rebuilding, Happy children welcoming helpful soldiers, etc.)
The candy thing was odd, I imagine, mostly because I know absolutely nil about whether or not soldiers usually have large amounts of candy on them (enough to get 30-70 kids to run over), and indeed I do wonder where all that came from. But this is mostly a point of my professed ignorance rather than something I'm offering up as "evidence."
So, that's the full extent of what I was saying, or tried to say. "Was carelessness or negligence involved considering the potential for an attack?"
No conspiracy theorist here. Sorry for any misunderstanding,
"While this debate commentary was enlightning, I feel that it failed to address the most serious issues of the debate which we, the enlightened media, will be discussing endlessly by 9:45, such as Kerry's casual 'hands in pockets' stanch ... "
Probably "stanching" the flow of blood from where the media have pummelled him unmercifully.
We need to get spreading the meme courtesy of Hesiod that the preznit has dyed his hair for the debate. It should be greyer than Kerry's. But I bet you it won't be. Vanity, vanity, vanity. Pretty sissyboy of you to dye your hair, isn't it mishter preznit? Are you in fact a self-loathing closet queen?
GN--
What would you say if you picked up an early edition of a newspaper that had NO debate news because we're holding AP to a standard of not being able to preview a news event? Would you view that newspaper as being more responsible? Or would you charge that it's being irresponsible because it didn't carry any news about the debate?
If you notice, the AP report says absolutely nothing about what happens in the debate. It merely provides context for the debate.
Smitty Werbenmanjensen
I would say that (1) as these debates have been held for decades, why is there not some system ensuring that in this one instance, perhaps the AP can deliver the story late?; (2) if that is not feasible, then it most definitely would be better for the AP to concede that the debate was held too late for it to be covered appropriately, and as a news organization with a smidgen of honesty, the AP would prefer to disseminate the report later rather than merely write a ficticious story.
Especially when you're an obese, washed-up drunk with a dope problem.
hey, a little respect for the dearly departed, altho the comment is true and jim wasn't the philosopher he wanted to be. as HST says they could really screw up a performance, but when they were on, they were the best damn rock and roll band ever.
it emphasizes good carbs over bad carbs,
ok then, i take it back, ding dongs are bad carbs, whole grains, fruits, vegetables etc... good carbs. of course you will lose weight on an all protein diet, but it isn't healthy. still, stay away from the crack whores. truth be told both types of Philalethes whores inhabit southbeach, in spades.
Mr. Bush is probably more appropriate because you don't want to concede the president title. Plus if Bush get's snarky and asks to be refered to as Mr. President, Kerry can always say, well you have to get elected first.
krsaz | Email | Homepage | 09.30.04 - 4:33 pm | #
Heh. I like it.
Deep breath. OK:
It doesn't matter if this is the traditional wire-service trick of writing a story and then topping it with ledes as the event progresses. (And there are very appropriate times to do this, as with some elderly famous person's obit,
Quibble: Important difference with an obit -- those don't run anywhere before the person has died (except by mistake, an infamous case being "the first time" Bob Hope died). They're in the can but they don't get sent anywhere until the person dies.
or a political speech where the speech text has been delivered to the media beforehand specifically so they can file these canned wire stories.)
but oh man how some folks here have been bitching about this, at least since the start of the conventions -- overlooking the fact that it's very much in a campaign's interest to get the text out before delivery.
Why doesn't it matter? Because in this case, they are publishing a *guess* of what might happen and claiming it actually happened.
Yeah, but ... the lede only "guesses" that the debate will actually take place, that tens of millions will watch, and that it will focus on Iraq and terrorism. Given the announcement that this debate is about foreign policy, I don't think that's a terribly risky guess (although I sure hope questioners bring up other subjects, like North Korea and Sudan). Also not going way out on a limb to expect a large audience.
Beyond that, the piece mainly summarized the candidates' position to date on Iraq. Again, maybe you can quarrel with details of how particular positions were summarized, or with the notion that the debate is "particularly crucial" for Kerry and that Bush could afford to settle for a draw -- I won't go into that.
ABCNews.com -- or any of the other thousands of public news publications marketed to the public -- is not a secret subscription system for editors who "know the tricks." It's a public source of news.
You get at an important point here. Setup pieces like this originated in the days when the wires were writing for newspapers, not web sites too. For people not in the news business, I understand how an article like this can seem like a "time warp" although I don't understand why so many seem to get so bent out of shape by it.
US Media: Just lazy & inept,
There you go again. If the reporter and editor were lazy they'd take the afternoon off and not file any story until the debate starts.
Crack whores are fantastic...
with the right Chianti.
Well, gee, let's all go vote in the polls, then, right now, over who "won" the debate. Might as well hold our places in the poll, too.
C'mon. It would be one thing for AP to hold a place with a caption and space. It's another for AP and other services to go ahead and put this out like it is news.
k&y:
What I meant was, when you use plural pronouns "we"/"us" are you speaking as if on behalf of some group, e.g. "we at the DNC think..."
And, now that i think about it, why two people authoring one post, unless it's a "JoanieLuvsCiaci" kind of thing...
THEY CALL ME PASTABAGEL
Someone wayyyyyyy back upstream said it best:
Bush will wait until the closing minutes and then break all the rules and approach Kerry, asking him a barrage of questions. It'd make Kerry look defensive and weak, and the only recourse would be to complain about it the next day...making him look like a whiner.
Game, set, match. Kerry's gotta start early.
Go underpants gnomes!!
Phase 1: Collect under pants
Phase 2: ???????
Phase 3: Profit!!!
Mexican Radio: well, we were fatasses who weren't that fat (some of those localized deals where just the rump or just the stomach is from some other body), but generally enjoyed life through our stomachs, and if we were going to hand out candy to kids we would have even more than usual on us. And yes, in Jerusalem, in Tijuana and probably now in Iraq it doesn't take that much to get every brat in the neighborhood on your case.
Hey--kerry is losing in this poll on MSNBC. Help him win...here
The debate will be done at 10:30. MAYBE, if a professional j-school graduate journalist can't get a story done in an hour and a half (not even counting the time DURING the debate they can write, which would bring it to three hours!) about something that's been planned for months they should be FIRED! How about that?
And these timelines are just for the EAST COAST. On the west coast they'd have 4.5 hours (six hours w/ debate time)! And assume a midnight deadline when some newspaper deadlines go even later!
There's no excuse for the AP pre-story, especially considering it's written largely in the PAST tense, which is really deceptive, and really unethical... No excuse, that is, except for laziness.
And you have tons of care packages people send over there, full of more junk food than any unit can consume itself.
I hate America so much I want Bush to win.
The 1001 Faces of K&Y: thanks for the explanation.
Bullshit. What you are saying makes no sense. Why bother to write a "set-up piece" as a "placeholder" if there is no intention to use the piece as "news"? I'm sure that most of that story will be contained in published reports tomorrow morning. Don't defend the indefensible. The press needs the silly slapped out of it, and this is a prime example. - GN
It makes sense as all you need to do is customize your placeholder by adding a line here and a line there.
Actually, the practice wouldn't be so bad if there were actual pre-debate reporting. E.g. you have some actual background from which you craft a carefully written article (carefully delineated using phrases like "even before the debate" ...) and then you hastily add your actual reporting at the end.
There are two problems with this article, though: (1) you don't release your prewriting unless you are stupid and (2) there is no actual reporting here - just recycled conventional "wisdom" ... so why couldn't the reporter dash this off at the end of the debate?
And if the AP wanted to release the pre-debate article before the debate and then recycle the text into an article on the debate later, that could have easily been done. What was actually released, though, doesn't seem to be a background article which could be modified later with actual news to make an article on the debate, but rather a SNAFU release of a pre-written article.
In general, I remember reading that the problem with journalism today is that journalists are no longer proles but rather are getting too comfortable in their jobs. I think it was Greg Palast who made this point, but I am not quite sure.
This ties in nicely with the "NYT hires Ken Starr" story:
... Mr. Starr and Mr. Abrams strongly urged the government not to seek the telephone records, in the interest of preserving "a vigorous, aggressive and independent press."
Maybe 'vigorous and aggressive' means writing news before it happens? And 'independent' means 'independent of facts'. They are such pesky things.
k&y:
Never mind. I googled it.
THEY CALL ME PASTABAGEL
Athenae,
I love me some Atticus, too! Maybe Kerry should shoot a rabid dog tonight. That'd set the tone, eh?
last i heard soldiers were forbidden to hand out candy to IPs (indigenous population, isn't that a lovely, dehumanizing euphemism) in this case they turned out to be very bad carbs indeed. sorry, bad snark. i'm upset, it's just awful to think a large part of our population doesn't have a problem when they hear about iraqi deaths.
finally Abu Ghraib caused by:
1)illegal torture policy, instituted at the highest levels of the bush administration.
2)outsourcing interrogations to private security firms.
there really should be no debate, we should be seeing criminal prosecutions against the architects of this iraq fiasco.
The template is hardly unique and is symptomatic of an attitude with journalists where nothing is really news and everything already has its official explanation.
From Terry McAuliffe:
Vote
National and local news organizations will be conducting online polls during and after the debate asking for readers' opinions. Look for online polls at these national news websites, and make sure to vote in every one of them:
ABC News: http://www.abcnews.com/
CBS News: http://www.cbsnews.com/
CNN: http://www.cnn.com/
Fox News: http://www.foxnews.com/
MSNBC: http://www.msnbc.com/
USA Today: http://www.usatoday.com/
And be sure to check the websites of your local newspapers and TV stations for online polls. It is crucial that you do this in the minutes immediately following the debate.
Debate coverage has officially begun. I just cracked my first cold one.
when they were on, they were the best damn rock and roll band ever.
As long as you liked them, anyway. I never did. To me, they're all about lousy songs, stupid lyrics, and Manzarek's tinny, meandering keyboards...ugh.
Nothing personal, mind you. Just not my cup of tea! And of course, I listen to PLENTY of stuff that's ripe for ridicule and dismissal.
I wonder, though...has anyone ever conceded that a band they don't like is "the best damn rock 'n' roll band ever"? As in, "I may hate every song Led Zeppelin ever wrote, but there's no doubt that they're the finest rock 'n' roll band of all times, bar none!"
Hey, love 'em or hate 'em...ya gotta love 'em!
Except Kerry can't look like he's become unhinged, like Dean and Gore...
Regarding K&Y using "we" - considering that it is Kei and Yuri who are both writing together, isn't "we" the correct pronoun to use?
The Bush campaign has set up a network of Web sites to carry instant analysis of tonight's debate.
I say we troll the Freepers tonight.
And Powerline. And LGF (hold your noses).
And send cheery emails to Instafuckwit and all the other comment-free bloggers, so that they're picking through 15,000 messages to try and find their GOP-approved post-debate spin.
Alternatively, why not spoof those GOP emails and see if/when the Corner cuts and pastes that message from Ed Gillespie that Bush is a retard?
George W Bush is a very grifted debater.
Oompa Loompa in '04!
Local radio ran an abc report from Terry Moran. Bush is taking a nap this afternoon. Moran said Bush goes to bed early usually and if he stays up late, he will cranky. So his campaign asked him to take an afternoon nap.
No, I am not joking!
So Krugman was right again, as usual.
I wonder if $calia is going to release his "majority" opinion on the $election of Bu$h as president before the Florida polls open this year?
So when we kill kids in Fallujah "accidentally", are we terrorists ?
The kids weren't targets, and the only reason Americans give a shit is because the insurgents lit the bomb, not us - and we were giving out candy. Blah blah, the all-american boys. Can we be honest and admit that this tragedy will be used as bullshit spin for months, not to accomplish anything but propaganda for the dim-wiited American public.
(read the end of the AP article - 5 kids were killed in Fallujah yesterday....)
Propaganda.
Go read Josh Marshalls latest update at TPM
Can you all just feel the energy on this blog right now? It's electric.
Can you all just feel the energy on this blog right now? It's electric.
No, that's the flex capacator I've installed. I've got it up to 1 gigawatt. Just .21 to go....
Can you all just feel the energy on this blog right now? It's electric.
No, that's the flex capacator I've installed. I've got it up to 1 gigawatt. Just .21 to go....
What the hell happened to kos?
Anonymous
Kos could not handle the load. Today is a heavy traffic day. He is turning off function by function to keep up with
the load.
It makes sense as all you need to do is customize your placeholder by adding a line here and a line there.
I agree, but I said it made no sense because there was an assertion that there is no laziness involved because the "placeholder" would have to be completely re-written to comport with a real factual analysis of tonight's debate. I'm arguing that that is nonsense because whyever would a complete story be written in the past tense merely to serve as a placeholder, only to be rewritten late tonight? Sorry, but I suspect that a good portion of that story will probably be presented tomorrow morning as "news."
Posters I haven't seen in awhile are starting to arrive....
Welcome, welcome, please, have a seat...
With the surging and the pulsing and the...shocking!
Something big's going to happen tonight at the debates. I can just feel it.
Incognito
Ummm. The Secret Service forgets it's not a Bush/Cheney rally. They mistake Kerry for a "protestor", knock him to ground, hand cuff him, and drag him out of the hall? Once these guys are programmed, it's hard to get them to switch.
So, which network will you all be watching the debate on? I'm thinking PBS.
Is it just me, but is there anybody else
who can never remember the name of most
Led Zeppelin songs? Recognize them, obviously,
but not their titles.....
Just asking...
It's electric! Boogie woogie woogie woogie!
Although I can understand why the AP pre-writes an article and will fill in the blanks later, my problem with it is the slant of the article as written, Bush only has to manage a tie, Kerry is losing and trying to shor up his campaign. If you re-read the article it is set up for Kerry to lose.
I don't give a crap about the press deadlines, just fucked up that the AP is slanting it's post-debate coverage before the debate actually happens.
Hehe... The story magically corrected Itself...
Older story, past tense:
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/
Polit...40930_1184.html
Newer story, present tense:
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/
Polit...40930_1212.html
(I'm assuming it's newer since the number is higher)
Liberals Spreading Lies of Polling Fraud
MoveOnPlease.Org is reporting that the Gallup poll is purposely pushing Bush ahead in the polls with a Christian Conservative bias. I am embarrassed for the Democratic Party and anyone who considers them self a liberal, when I read such hate filled misinformation such as this.
(
krsaz, the media is obviously liberal, don't you GET IT!
Iraq...
like giving candy to a baby...
and then blowing it up.
Whoa, Incog, you in a good mood?
No, that's the flex capacator I've installed. I've got it up to 1 gigawatt. Just .21 to go....
dc-too
It's a flux capacitor, not flex. Silly boy.
Hey PASTYBABBLE,
If you're sincere about getting off the Troll,and you want your posts to be taken seriously...
You could do worse than DROP THE ANNOYING TAGLINE.
I mean for fuck's sake, WHO EVER CALLED YOU PASTAWHATEVER?
Anyone? Bueller? hello?
and knock off the blogwhoring, while you're at it.
and try to read a bit here, and catch up a little on the scene before you go shoving your pasty white nose into it.
Trust me, you'll look a lot less stupid.
The dumb asses are out as well today.
So, which network will you all be watching the debate on? I'm thinking PBS.
C-SPAN 5, with optional commentary by Tom Servo and Crow T. Robot.
I just tried to click on the link again, and I got this message: Sorry
This content is not available. We apologize for the inconvenience.
Ooops! Their slip was showing.
I really don't mean to be obtuse,
Like you have a choice, PB.
There are actually six keis and yuris: one pair for each day except Sunday, when they all post in rotation according to guidelines laid down by people who cannot be named.
I've said too much already...
"Besides, this guy was never elected to be the president."
We should put that one aside for a moment an consider this: How can someone who refuses to allow anyone who doesn't share his views to even listen to him make a speech claim to be the president of all of us? A president is not this frightened of dissent -- pissed about it, maybe, but not frightened. Anybody remember the incident where Nixon snuck out of the White House to go talk to antiwar protesters?
George Bush is not the President of the United States of America. The USA at this point in time has no president. The right wing of the Republican Party has a president; the rest of us do not.
Rarely is the question asked, is our candidates debating yet?
Biblio,
I love me some Atticus, too! Maybe Kerry should shoot a rabid dog tonight. That'd set the tone, eh?
I think if he did that, and then gave an impassioned speech, my crush on him might tumble right over into outright stalking. As it is, I'm starting to turn into a gibbering fangirl whenever he's on TV, and it's kind of pissing Mr. Athenae off.
A.
Whoa, Incog, you in a good mood?
Biblio
No
Hehe... The story magically corrected Itself...
Older story, past tense:
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/
Polit...40930_1184.html
Newer story, present tense:
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/
Polit...40930_1212.html
(I'm assuming it's newer since the number is higher)
Oh No.
I don't give a crap about the press deadlines, just fucked up that the AP is slanting it's post-debate coverage before the debate actually happens.
That's why Kerry has to do something that absolutely forces the hacks to re-submit. Punch Bush in the face if he has to.
Bush Radley
here's an easy form to send letters to your local papers:
http://www.democrats.org/media/
(is it wrong that I write letters to local papers in the swing states even though i don't live there, giving out the addresses of Domino's pizza joints as mine?)
And of course the original link just died in the last minute or so.
OK folks, let's keep that energy level up.
OT: Maker of Vioxx pulls drug off market; analysts say this is a disaster for shareholders. And oh, by the way, people who have taker Vioxx that have had heart complications may be upset.
But, according to the story, trial lawyers are happy.
So instead of showing how Merck put a potentially dangerous drug on the market, the story points to how all those bad trial lawyers will swoop down on poor Merck.
What crap. Go read.
http://tinyurl.com/3lj2f
Guess all of you have been getting the emails today from Cahill begging for money - I just sent a hundred to the DNC.
Bush's nap - Probably a bad idea for a dry drunk, all of the cobwebs come back. Plus they will have to re-prep him as he will have forgotten everything from before his nap.
Big John - Jugular, jugular...
krsaz:
11:36 Bagdad, at least 33 US troops killed
A dual dynamite attack on a US convoy travelling through south Baghdad has killed 33. An Iraqi police source says that after a first explosion a second occured as a group of soliders rushed to assist their stricken comrades.
and
10:56 Carbomb attack on US base, 3 are dead and 13 wounded. The blast, so powerful that it damaged a nearby tank, last killed one American and two Iraqi police outright. Three other Americans were wounded.
It wasn't until 12:52 that mention of the children was made. Very strange.
Sorry, but I suspect that a good portion of that story will probably be presented tomorrow morning as "news." - GN
Indeed it will be. My point is that it would be fine to present that good portion of the story as "olds" rather than "news" (e.g. as background, etc.) if there was actually a story to present.
What is present is a mixture of C-not-so-W, spin and an assertion of what will happen at the debate. What is posted is not a backstory or a fill-in-the-blanks ready story to describe the debate, but a story in and of itself on a debate that hasn't happened in which meaningless drivel has been substituted for whatever may happen in the debate: as the story is written, it is not a back-story nor does it have blanks to fill in ... it is a story in and of itself.
And crappy as the story is, the fact that it will likely be re-published almost verbatum after the debate as "news" does indeed disturb me greatly!
Sorry, but I suspect that a good portion of that story will probably be presented tomorrow morning as "news." - GN
Indeed it will be. My point is that it would be fine to present that good portion of the story as "olds" rather than "news" (e.g. as background, etc.) if there was actually a story to present.
I most definitely agree.
No, Incog is waiting like a vulture at a gutpile.
Whoa, Incog, you in a good mood?
Biblio
He was busted repeatedly for trolling the last few days, so now he's trying on the "reasonable and friendly" schtick. The "bad Incog" will be back soon enough, don't you worry.
Hey, can anyone tell me who wrote this, way back in May of 2004?
"I don't see America's invasion of Iraq as colonialism. I'm seeing this as America must have that to survive. This isn't the 'politics of reality.' It's the politics of 'get real.' I don't see us ever leaving there, no matter what. There is no way this country will ever allow Iraq to sink into a breeding ground for future jihadists. We see that now as Iraq is coming under the heel of American power. Violence is being quelled. American troop deaths are down as local populations are being squeezed into pacification."
Hint: It's someone who's never, EVER been proven wrong.
That's why Kerry has to do something that absolutely forces the hacks to re-submit. Punch Bush in the face if he has to.
anonymous in nc
I don't think getting beat down by the Secret Service is on Kerry's agenda tonight.
Of course, Kerry has his own Secret Service now, so what if Bush attacks Kerry, then the Secret Service throw down and it's a Jerry springer melee with SS agents fighting SS agents, Kerry crawls out from under, flashes his chest at the audience then hits Bush with Jim Leher's hairpiece. Man, I gotta catch the debates tonight.
darn. they wised up to their error and have deadend the link. did anybody think to furl it? if so, please email me.
m&s
The whole "kids and candy" thing in Iraq is so fucking full of shit. First off, why if you're a fucking soldier in a war zone would you say "hey kids, come over here to the FUCKING TANK and .50 caliber machine gun turret, I have some candy for you?"
The story is just so fucked up in so many ways you just know that spin is only the beginning. You know Dear leader will be mentioning it. And what can you say? Well, that is wrong, I agree but we should blah blah." It's fucked up that these nazi stormtrooper repugs are actually doing this to America and the world...And that we're LETTING them.
No, Incog is waiting like a vulture at a gutpile.
Barndog
More like a buzzard. We don't have vultures in the Americas.
If Shrub says something tonight like "we went to war after Saddam refused to let the inspectors in" (as he has said before) we have got to be ALL OVER IT.
A massive fusillade of emails, phone calls, faxes, web board posts, coordinated blogging, etc. must alert the media that a statement like this is every bit as unacceptable as Ford's famous 74 gaffe -- in fact much worse.
He has said this before, and there was nary a peep from our esteemed journalists.
punch bush in the face? But he would just run over and hide under Karen's skirt screaming "Kawwen dat bad man he hit me!"
To all who are worried about the debate tonight, I have two acronyms for you: SOTU and MTP.
If you remember the last SOTU, Bush bombed, and he bombed badly. Even his handlers had a hard time justifying Mars and Steroids.
His appearance on MTP with Big Fat Russ tossing softball after softball was also not greatly received by his editorial page admirers.
Both those venues were a lot more Bush friendly than even tonight's pathetic excuse for a "debate".
Candy, shmandy...
Here's the shit piñata that's about to explode:
Daughter of Soldier Contaminated with Depleted Uranium in Iraq Born with Deformities
I love the smell of Depleted Uranium in the morning!
...and for thousands of years thereafter!
It's not shit, we did it from a moving Oshkosh 7-ton, tank patrols do it from their tanks (what, are they going to stop and get out?!), and a recent CBC piece showed a Canadian tank patrol in Bosnia doing it too.
Hey, love 'em or hate 'em...ya gotta love 'em!
sometimes, i can get people who hate jimi hendrix to admit he's a guitar god/genius, sometimes.
OT- however insane
Hannity just said "what Kerry is trying to do (with Iraq stance) is Orwellian...all as a mindless mob at the Georgia state fair chanted flip flop in some type of heat and or moonshine induced mass hyptnosass...
jeebus - its fuckin' surreal out in the USof?
Roddy MCorley - good point. The Repugs disenfranchised as many Democrats as possible. They stole the election and then turned around and redistricted as many states as they could. They have shut Democrats out of the process to the point where you are totally correct - there is no president of the U.S. There is a president of the Repugs, and that's it.
We have virtually no representation left. They won't let our representatives do anything. It's egregious, anti-democratic and anti-American. And the media has been totally co-opted in the process.
OT: The DNC needs more money before midnight tonight. I just gave them another $50 (I don't get paid until tomorrow). Don't wait until after the debates. Do it NOW.
Ante up, kids.
...and for thousands of years thereafter!
Anonymous
And that's the excuse Al Queda will use when they contaiminate us here with radiation.
charley - You know somebody that hates Jimi Hendrix? Man, thats fucked up.
More like a buzzard. We don't have vultures in the Americas. - Incog
Wrong-o batman. Better do some more studying up on your Aviary science.
(note: I haven't fucked off and died yet - as per instruction?)
Right now on CBS Sportsline.com the headline is Flip Floppers (talking about the MLB Playoff races) is this necessary the day of the Presidential Debate???? What the fuck?
WOW, that's a BIG link I made. (sorry).
This isn't the 'politics of reality.' It's the politics of 'get real.'
Really, 'cuz that's so...not the same meaningless proactive buzzword.
Yeah, Marcus, but we got a new "meme" out now. Bush gets to recite platitudes at Kerry, awhile Kerry must miraculously get past the rules in order to rile Bush.
I expect Bush will be on happy pills -- any stoned behavior is a small price to pay to avoid him getting smirky.
(note: I haven't fucked off and died yet - as per instruction?)
Barndog
I'm sure I just wrote that out of the blue. I don't remember it, but if I did, you probably deserved it.
Is it erstwhile latter-day Kipling Niall Ferguson?
Who gives a shit about radiation. I was trained as the NBC NCO for my unit in the Marines.
Troll some more while yer at it.
charley - who in the hell could possibly hate Jimi Hendrix? You can't be serious - how could anyone hate Jimi Hendrix?
Now my head is exploding.
The Republicans have built the entire campaign around the trope of "decisive leadership." There's a lot of momentum there. Maybe it can be tripped and brought crashing down. Kerry's trying to do that by focusing on bad decisions.
More personal though is the concept of accountability -- like Ruben Bolling's Tom the Dancing Bug comic in Salon today where Bush keeps saying "You're NOT fired" to all the screw-ups in the administration.
The icon of Presidential accountability is the sign on Truman's desk that said "The buck stops here." Kerry should bring that with him and put it on his podium!!!
charley - You know somebody that hates Jimi Hendrix? Man, thats fucked up.
chris/tx
(Philalethes starts to raise hand nervously, then puts it back down)
Yeah...Hendrix!
"Local radio ran an abc report from Terry Moran. Bush is taking a nap this afternoon. Moran said Bush goes to bed early usually and if he stays up late, he will cranky. So his campaign asked him to take an afternoon nap.
No, I am not joking!"
Ah, I was just thinking about this - Shrub never stays up past 9pm we're told, and he's just bound to be cranky as all get out. Too bad. Trying to steal a nap with that kind of long term sleep pattern is going to screw up everything - as a long term midday napper, I know this stuff. Groggy? The only way to recuperate will be with a good stiff drink.
I would not have Vernon Jordan negotiate my lunch!
Wrong-o batman. Better do some more studying up on your Aviary science.
Post us a link on vultures in the Americas. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. See, that's the problem. I've never written anything that was falsifiable so you attack me on stupid shit like the Bush campaign.
Let's pray for another of these:
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
— GWB, Aug 5, 2004
anybody have a link to the exact number of US soldiers killed in Bush's war today?
Anon posted at least 33 deaths today, if that is true this is a bad, bad day in Iraq.
Lehrer done a number on Al Gore in 2000. I will have my eye on him tonight.
Only because of your irrational emotional sensitvity to anything in conversation related to homosexuals.
That's all.
I certainly don't hate Jimi Hendrix, but I'm not a huge fan of his music. (And I am a guitar player / guitar nut.)
Who gives a shit about radiation. I was trained as the NBC NCO for my unit in the Marines.
Troll some more while yer at it.
Barndog
So was I, jarhead.
Athenae,
Mr. Biblio refers to JK as "your boyfriend" and Jon Stewart as "your other boyfriend" and shakes his head at me. But he knows my attraction to brainy, unconventionally handsome men utimately benefits him, so he lives with it.
Only because of your irrational emotional sensitvity to anything in conversation related to homosexuals.
That's all.
Barndog
You would be too if you've been through what we've been through. At least, I hope you would stand up to it.
Barndog--were you actually in NBC MOS-wise or just the NBC guy for your unit? (come to think of it, we never had a unit with an NBC NCO the way you have a secondary duty like "Safety NCO" or "Training NCO")
sometimes, i can get people who hate jimi hendrix to admit he's a guitar god/genius, sometimes.
charley
Yeah, I see your point. I don't like him much, but I admit he's good at what he does...when he's confined enough by time constraints to be...um...terse, especially.
On the other hand, it's sort of faint praise. Someone could get me to admit that, say, Yngwie Malmsteen is a talented guitarist...but that doesn't mean I want to listen to him jerk himself off for an hour and a half! It's hard to love the talent unless you love what people do with it, in my experience...
Glad you caught this Atrios. I see that the link no longer works. With so many folks having read it and with Air America and Out Q screaming about it, maybe some of the so called journalists will actually have to come up some new copy.
Philalethes & wtfwjd? - You guys are lucky Backslider is not here, he would be giving ya'll an internet spanking.
Amid the apparently (?) broadening media consensus that if Iraq is on the skids if not FUBAR as Prof Cole says (seems obvious to me, but...), tension is rising among the wingnuts, as witness this marvelous little letter in response to the WSJ Wednesday editorial on those pesky career analysts over at Langley ("The CIA's Insurgency") whom others explain away by claiming they're Democrats:
Fight On!
Linda Allen - Washington
Again and again the Democrats are so desperate; President Bush and his administration are fighting these bleeding heart terrorists within our own American people. Shame, shame. This is why President Bush, Condi Rice, Gen. Powell must persevere; onward and upward towards victory.
Lord in Heaven.
Marcus:
About SOTU, I don't know about the mars thing, but the steriods comment was a clever political move.
The comment made that speech the lead story on ESPN's sportscenter and ESPN.com ran a number of stories about his comment about steroid use, and the speech generally.
In other words, he managed to get free publicity and coverage on one of the most popular cable networks.
Say what you will, it was very clever strategy.
THEY CALL ME PASTABAGEL
Is it just me, but is there anybody else
who can never remember the name of most
Led Zeppelin songs? Recognize them, obviously,
but not their titles.....
Just asking...
steve simels | Email | Homepage | 09.30.04 - 4:52 pm | #
most led zepplin songs are old blues tunes, or in some cases celtic ballads. but no, i can't remember.
i do remember having that jimi argument with people who were paige fanatics. paige is good, jimi was a fuck'n genius. dylan changed the way rock and roll was written/sung, jimi changed the way it would be played, you don't get more plugged in then jimi was.
an odd thought: "So when we kill kids in Fallujah "accidentally", are we terrorists ?"
This is a rhetorical question, right? 
How could the US military and the US government be any less than a murderous terroristic "gangs" where the killing of women and children in Fallujah is concerned?
Collateral damage, my happy ass.
Hendrix rocks, always. Star Spangled Banner bitches.
Sorry: it's not IF Iraq is on the skids - it is. One 'if' too many in that sentence.
Philalethes & wtfwjd? - You guys are lucky Backslider is not here, he would be giving ya'll an internet spanking.
chris/tx
Hey, it's always a privilege to get slapped down by Backslider! Besides, he and I agree on AC/DC, Motorhead, Howlin' Wolf, Irma Thomas, and Merle Haggard...and we both hate the Doors...so I'm hoping maybe he'll let me slide on Hendrix.
Philalethes,
well i get the feeling you listen to more serious music anyway, which i also like but am not real attatched to. hmm... segovia or hendrix?
Inconito:
Um.
Excerpt:
common North American vulture
New World vultures
California Condor
Scientific classification
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Aves
Order: Accipitriformes
Family: Cathartidae
Genera
Cathartes
Coragyps
Gymnogyps
Sarcorhamphus The New World vulture family Cathartidae contains seven species found in North and South America. It includes five vultures and two condors. the American Black Vulture, Coragyps atratus, tends to have a more southerly distribution than its compatriot, the Turkey Vulture
Turkey Vulture
Picture needed
Scientific classification
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Aves
Order: Accipitriformes
Family: Cathartidae
Genus: Cathartes
Species: aura
Binomial name
Cathartes aura
(Linnaeus, 175
The Turkey Vulture, Cathartes aura is an extremely graceful bird in flight. It seldom needs to flap its long wings once airborne, but soars high overhead looking for carcasses. It is one of nature's best rubbish disposals. This is the most common North American vulture.
It's called Google.
Aaaaaargh! You don't like "The Wind Cries Mary"? Oh my god. Or Hendrix's version of "Hey Joe"?
something is really wrong with these kids today.
Unit-wise K & Y. Before I went into helicopters, I was in the grunts for 2 years though. They found this to be more 'conducive' to the type of training I recieved at that level.
I also recieved training in field radio & cryptography in the grunts. So, I wore a variety of hats - as it were.
Again and again the Democrats are so desperate; President Bush and his administration are fighting these bleeding heart terrorists within our own American people. Shame, shame. This is why President Bush, Condi Rice, Gen. Powell must persevere; onward and upward towards victory.
Lord in Heaven.
Expatriate
Krsaz, icasualties.org
Tally is still 1054.
Nothing comes up on google news for a large number of american fatalities today.
motorhead? ad/dc? i take back my previous post. but like you say if you love 'em ya gotta love 'em.
"Ahead in the polls, Bush could afford to settle for a debate draw while Kerry needed something to break the status quo. Some Democrats saw the debates as the last chance for a Kerry breakout."
Editorization before the fact. Can there be any doubt of media bias now?
Aren't the American "vultures" different from either buzzards or old world vultures?
Buzzards are actually rather akin to certain hawks, aren't they? And old world vultures are also in the same family as eagles, buzzards, hawks, etc., but a different family than new world vultures, are they not?
Again and again the Democrats are so desperate; President Bush and his administration are fighting these bleeding heart terrorists within our own American people. Shame, shame. This is why President Bush, Condi Rice, Gen. Powell must persevere; onward and upward towards victory.
Lord in Heaven.
Expatriate
They always write and I guess think in those triumphant bizarrely epic terms. I'll never forget a local wingnut who wrote in our local fish wrap prior to the Republican's Iraqi War, "It is now time for the American eagle to unfurl its talons."
new thread above already haloscan broken
>Lord in Heaven.
Expatriate
and bush to Hell...
Apophenia, when you assume newspapers have a midnight deadline ... well, you know what Felix Unger says happens when you assume. In reality, by midnight Eastern time -- even by 10:30 p.m., when the debate is over -- many early editions will be long closed. And some of them will probably run this setup, rather than looking dumb tomorrow morning by having nothing at all on the story everyone will be talking about.
DAS:
Actually, the practice wouldn't be so bad if there were actual pre-debate reporting. E.g. you have some actual background from which you craft a carefully written article (carefully delineated using phrases like "even before the debate" ...) and then you hastily add your actual reporting at the end.
That story is full of background, from top to bottom, plus quotes from Kerry and Bush today. I don't understand what additional "pre-debate reporting" you're looking for. If you want to quibble that it wasn't clear enough that the story was written before the debate, I won't argue, but that's really a minor point.
I thought krsaz (4:53 p.m.) had a legitimate substantive complaint about this piece, in how it sets up Kerry to lose by saying Bush could afford a draw but Kerry needs more. Even though that's my own uncomfortable sense going into this (judging by recent state polls overall -- especially in places like NJ and even CT, which is far closer than it should be) I don't think it was appropriate to cast the setup story that way. And unfortunately, I bet that remains in the story after the debate, even if AP doesn't go out on a limb to declare someone a winner.
something is really wrong with these kids today.
Tena - You saved me from having to go look at my JH greatest hits CD song list (my two favorites also).
Think it is because we "grew up" with JH during Nam here in the states. His music (like Dylan's Blood on the tracks album) are frozen in time for me.
thats insane
thats insane
Tena, sometimes you have to have been there to understand the music.
Kids hate the Doors? Hate Hendrix? Well, as ground into mediocrity by the "Classic Rock" FM stations, perhaps.
But these are a far cry from the real thing- and if the corporate mediocrity machine can degrade the New York Times into a print version of Wolf Blitzer, I suppose anything beautiful can be corrupted.
Seconding Bing Crosby @4 :08
Lebanonization of Iraq
Read the letter that Josh links to as well.
Aaaaaargh! You don't like "The Wind Cries Mary"? Oh my god. Or Hendrix's version of "Hey Joe"?
something is really wrong with these kids today.
Tena
Nah, that stuff doesn't do anything for me. Especially not "Hey Joe," which is way too repetitive ad sluggish, IMO. I can just about handle a song like "Manic Depression"...it's lively and to the point. But I'm just not a fan, overall.
But hey, if turning 39 in a month makes me a kid...I'm all for it. I did get carded a couple of nights ago...that was a thrill!
If you want to hear Hendrix and Jim Morrison at their absolute worst, there's a famous bootleg where both of 'em are completely wasted...Hendrix is fumbling around aimlessly while Morrison bellows "Suck me, woman...I wanna fuck you in the ass!" It's like an hour long...it's a great way to clear a room!
Hey, Atrios -- this might be worth a top link! How the World (would) vote for President:
http://www.betavote.com/
seen on Kos...
...something someone said about the hand of Sauron torturing the very hills comes to mind...
C-SPAN 5, with optional commentary by Tom Servo and Crow T. Robot.
DAMN youse for making me want that. ::calling DirecTV, seeing how soon they can pipe that sucker in::
Phila-you gotta hear the live version of "Hey Joe". Its opening alone is enough to get you.
The AP story is still here:
http://www.wboc.com/Global/story...y.asp?
S=2370885
Sluggish. *sigh* I never thought I'd live to see the day when someone described any of Hendrix's guitar work as "sluggish."
According to the debate rules, the candidates can submit the name that they prefer to be called in advance. I would love to see Bush as "Dear Leader" and Kerry as "Captain America".
Think it is because we "grew up" with JH during Nam here in the states. His music (like Dylan's Blood on the tracks album) are frozen in time for me.
chris/tx
Yeah, I grew up hearing a lot of that stuff too...especially because I grew up in a hippified rural area where the sixties didn't end 'til about 1978. At my grade school, you listened to Hendrix or you were queer as a three-dollar bill.
His music never said much to me, though I did buy his albums dutifully...mostly because I watched the Woodstock film at 13, while high on acid, and liked "The Star-Spangled Banner."
There was a guy I used to know who explained to me that my problems with Dylan and Hendrix were based on the fact that "you had to be there." I said, "It's probably true...but no one ever says 'you had to be there' to appreciate classical music, or early jazz or blues, or Charlie Parker, or any of the other stuff I like." There's definitely something about loving the music of your youth that makes it hard to turn your back on it later in life...as I know firsthand very, very well.
That story even appears to be on Salon under the byline Terrence Hunt! And on something called signonsandiego.com. It's still creeping around. I really think they should see the debate before writing it up.
For soldiers in a combat zone to call to children and offer them candy on a day when insurgents have been fighting ferociously is...INSANE.
They wanted a Bush with Children photo op!!!!
Remember 9/11? Bush lined up the little kids who were crying and yapped bout how America was under attack so the Goat Story had to be FINISHED.
I said, why did he endanger the children like this???
Rats. More dead kids.
Crosstown Traffic, people.
I think this discussion of Hendrix and Morrison is groovy.
Phila-you gotta hear the live version of "Hey Joe". Its opening alone is enough to get you.
kei & yuri
Fair enough. Which album's it on?
Jeez, I don't want to get everyone mad about me for knocking Hendrix. He's just fine! I know I'm in a minority on this one...heck, even when I hobnobbed with punk/underground/experimental types almost exclusively, EVERYONE loved Hendrix. It's just me! It's some goddamn defect in my programming, and I'm stuck with it! Forgive me! Pity me!
This is BS, man. Who writes about the future like this? damn...
Hannity just said "what Kerry is trying to do (with Iraq stance) is Orwellian...all as a mindless mob ....
Rumors say what Hannity does in secret is Bukkakean....
..
ABCNews pulled the info but cbsnews.com has the same article. Also Des Moines Register in AP updated articles section.
How Kerry could easily win:
"Ladies and Genrlemen, Howard Dean..."
ummm...we don't know, probably the live one of the 2-disc "experiernce Hendrix" family-approved set, the purple and yellow...this isn't helping...
oh, don't tell me, Philalethes, that you have a problem with Dylan, too?
I think I'll go hang myself now.
I remember and will til the day I die the first time I heard "Like a Rolling Stone." I heard it on AM radio - KLIF. I sat up and said: "Whoa, what was that?" My life was never the same. In a good way.
That story is full of background, from top to bottom, plus quotes from Kerry and Bush today. I don't understand what additional "pre-debate reporting" you're looking for. If you want to quibble that it wasn't clear enough that the story was written before the debate, I won't argue, but that's really a minor point.
Of course there is the predebate editorializing as you and others have pointed out. Also, there are the non-editorial conclusions about the focus of the debate - while it is likely the debate will focus on Iraq, they don't know it yet. If this is a fill in the blanks story, that should be a blank. If this is a background story, they should say the debate is likely to focus on Iraq. And I don't think it's such a minor point ... no matter what happens during the debate, there is a chance the reporting will just repeat the pre-defined narrative - this is no minor point but insidious spin hurting the Dems.
Of course, the Kerry quotes given were not all that novel or useful. The main point is that the debate was (or rather it should be "will be") critical for Kerry - but there is no analysis on which this assertion is based. In a post-debate story, such an assertion might make sense if Kerry's numbers go up or down based on the debate's result, but since the debate hasn't happened yet, this is pure spin ... as "trailing slightly in the polls" is hardly evidence that the debate is so much more crucial for Kerry than for Bush.
And if the spin written before the debate is repeated after the debate, well ... then the criticality of the debate becomes another meme through which the public is turned against the Dems.
I am sure we can all agree that this article is terribly spun. But my point is that if they had waited until after the debate to spin things this way and more importantly presented evidence of the importance of this debate to Kerry ... well, that would be a fair story.
But as such, this story is calling Dewey the winner of the election.
Incognito: "OK folks, let's keep that energy level up."
No problem here, Chief!
I'm listening to Sharpton right now on CNN. Thank fate we have blacks in this country. There's no way blacks would be inclined to go along with fascism.
Hendrix not sluggish. Hendrix Rock! You sluggish.
No problem here, Chief!
Kate_Storm
Cheers, Kate.
Of course, there is a reason why the debates are more critical to Kerry than to Bush.
Bush supporters don't care about having an articulate candidate who can present himself well in a debate ... otherwise why would they support dry-drunk frat boy? OTOH, Kerry supporters care a lot about such things, so they are more swayed/encouraged/discouraged by debate performances.
Tena: "luggish. *sigh* I never thought I'd live to see the day when someone described any of Hendrix's guitar work as "sluggish."
Hey, the Little Twig told us the world changed after September 11th. ROFLMAO!
The Wind Calls Mary.
It's funny about music. My wife's a lot younger than me, so she was a teenager in the early nineties.
She'll listen to stuff like Bix Beiderbecke or the Mississippi Sheiks and love it, but I don't bother playing her Flipper or the Germs or any other music from my misspent youth. For her part, she spares me the Duran Duran and Human League. There's not even any use trying to explain the appeal to each other...we were in very different situations, at very different times. Some of the stuff she likes I hated when it came out, but seeing how it makes her happy softened me towards it a lot. I guess that's how I should be looking at Hendrix and so forth...if it pleases you good and estimable folks, then that's more than enough to like about it right there.
Slow groove maybe sometimes like that slow groove fuguey kinda thing in 'drifting' but not sluggish
Dr. Wu's tips for Kerry Success
Stanley Fish got it absolutely right (The Candidates, Seen From the Classroom,NYT,STANLEY FISH September 24, 2004)when he and his class examined speeches on the same day by Bush and Kerry and found Bush to be organized and effective while Kerry came off as an disorganized windbag. But one speech does not an orator make. The genius of George Bush is that he is wise enough to read the script that's given him. On his own he's often much more of an incoherent babbler than Kerry. Kerry often wings it and gets caught up in an endless amount of tangents that surge and crest in his mind. The smart move for both of them is to read what's handed to them. The debates are another story--here Bush might also prevail as he has committed a vast amount of boilerplate to his memory. Kerry should take note.
Of course, there is a reason why the debates are more critical to Kerry than to Bush.
I think its cuz Bush has a vested interest in keeping any form of truth from coming out but if even a small percentage of knee jerk sheep caught on to what Kerry is trying to tell them (as opposed to the soundbytes about what he's saying) Bush might actually lose some points.
Could you point me to a single website with any evidence of a Hannity Bukkake? It's been a rough week and the possiblity that this could be true is enough for me to take the bait
incognito, have you read about all the republicans sharpton has supported? and all the democrats whose races he's sabotaged?
sharpton = charlatan
Athenae,
Mr. Biblio refers to JK as "your boyfriend" and Jon Stewart as "your other boyfriend" and shakes his head at me. But he knows my attraction to brainy, unconventionally handsome men utimately benefits him, so he lives with it.
Hee.
Yeah, I have a thing for long-winded geeks with sarcastic streaks, too.
A.
oh, don't tell me, Philalethes, that you have a problem with Dylan, too? I think I'll go hang myself now.
Don't do it, Tena...I'm not worth it!
Yeah, Dylan doesn't do it for me, sad to say. But I like some stuff by Leonard Cohen, Phil Ochs, and Tim Buckley...if that helps any. And Townes Van Zandt, who's got his Dylanesque moments.
Honestly, although my parents weren't hippies, I was surrounded by them growing up and I ran as far and as fast from as many of their cultural icons as I could. It's only now that I can sit down and try to assess the actual quality of some of this music...for years I just had this visceral loathing for all of it, which isn't really healthy or sane. It's one of the things that had me listening to punk at a fairly precocious age...it was very different, very energetic, and very terse...and everyone I went to school with HATED it. I've lightened up a bit, thank heavens, but I still get a little impatient when the "epic" quality creeps into pop music.
Yeah, I have a thing for long-winded geeks with sarcastic streaks, too.
Gee, maybe there's hope for me yet!
ummm...we don't know, probably the live one of the 2-disc "experiernce Hendrix" family-approved set, the purple and yellow...this isn't helping...
k&y
No, actually I think I know what you mean!
I'll check it out. The really ridiculous thing is that I've listened to SO much music at this point--after obsessively binging and purging for decades, to the point that I've probably spent a quarter of my waking hours in record stores--that one of the only things left for me to do is go back to things I didn't think I liked and give them another chance...
Plus, as I get older, I don't LIKE not liking things. Granted that you have to draw the line somewhere, I'd still like to be as all-inclusive as I can possibly manage...
I certainly hope the rumors about Hannity's strange personal life are true. He's not an unattractive man, and he has the potential to become a great star in gay porn. It would be unquestionably a far more honorable and dignified career than the one he currently pursues.
Philalethes - Download JH's version of "Wild Thing" sometime. When I play it in the car, I look down and find myself doing about ninety.
Me personally, I never got Zepellin until years later when the less ear splitting songs came into vogue. My friends dad was the entertainment writer for the Houston paper when I was twelve, and got us fourth row tickets for Zepellin's first US tour. I could not hear for a week, so that probably had something to do with it.
So, that's the full extent of what I was saying, or tried to say. "Was carelessness or negligence involved considering the potential for an attack?"
Mexican Radio 09.30.04 - 4:34 pm
Someone should have known better. Maybe not the front-line guys, but whoever put the op together. If that person(s) is still alive I'm sure they feel like total shit and will need years of therapy to keep from becoming a nasty statistic.
It don't mean nothing...drive on...
-the still-unproven premise that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction- AKA, a lie. Hey, us anti war types were content to believe the UN weapons inspectors. We wanted FEWER dead people. Why rush to war against a country that didn't and couldn't attack us, in the name of a war on terror(ists)? It didn't make sense then. It doesn't make sense now. But the people that said so were called "traitors" and Bush-haters.
I would say "I told you so" if I didn't have to imagine dead American soldiers and Iraqi civilians every time the thought crossed my mind.
fwiw 1054 US military deaths thus far in Iraq. check out the posting on the rhs under 9/30/2004, i.e., total chaos.
Well, I'd still like Kerry lay a good punch on Bush - I'm in serious hockey deprivation. JFK could throw down the gloves and take GWB down like Darren McCarty took down Claude Lemieux. Maybe JFK could "accidentally" lose his shirt like McCarty did several times last season. Ooooooo!
Hendrix live, especially after 1967, is a revelation. The albums are over-produced, but stripped down, it's amazing. There are concert versions of 'I Don't Live Today' and 'Room Full Of Mirrors' that are astonishing.
I liked the part where Cheney interupted and started talking in a Darth Vader voice: "I'm your father, George". That was kewl.
Post us a link on vultures in the Americas. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. See, that's the problem. I've never written anything that was falsifiable so you attack me on stupid sh*t like the Bush campaign.
Three posts, no admission. I guess American vultures are like Pakistani nuclear missle subs: down the memory hole. Then you can maintain the illusion that no one has proved you wrong.
I dunno...
Wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Chimp does an end round about Quarteback Kerry and turns to the bleachers and cants Pagliacci.
Soccer moms would eat it up.
"oh, don't tell me, Philalethes, that you have a problem with Dylan, too? "
That's okay Philalethes. Me too. Not to this day have I ever been able to make out what the hell Dylan was saying - not even with the lyrics in front of me. It's just - it's just me.
On the other hand, I know all the lyrics and can sing along with 'Come on-a My House,' know all the changes in Stardust, and have my own copy of Sarah Vaughn singing "I'll Be Seeing You" -and- Tom Lehrer's 'Send in the Marines.'
But I still can't figure out what Dylan's saying.
Check this out -- looks nearly identical to original -- they fixed up a few tenses, that's all.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/
sto...=customwire.htm
Check this out -- looks nearly identical to original -- they fixed up a few tenses, that's all.
It's up on Yahoo! now.
They fixed some of the tenses toward the top, but still left some past tense in the bottom.
"The first debate drew the nation's attention to hurricane-battered Florida..."
" The debates were staged under a rigid set of rules..."
Is this hackery or WHAT?!?
On the other hand, I know all the lyrics and can sing along with 'Come on-a My House,'
Oh, I'm crazy about Rosemary Clooney. I'll take her over Dylan any day! But I'm mostly a Maxine Sullivan man.
"I hate America so much I want Bush to win."
Hey, Anon, are you sure that the America you hate is the real one, and not the illusion of America by the same Matrix that is bringing us "Bush the Strong Leader"?
Maybe you have widespread experience of a lot of people in a lot of places in America--I don't know. But if not, where do you get your concept of America from?
I would sure hesitate before I would wish more of Bush Inc. onto even the dumbest Americans I know. Have some pity for the brainwashed and the scared, whose cultures and communities have often been deliberately destroyed by multinational corporations.
I live in such a community, and what I see around me are the vulnerable and the sad, and the scared--and also basically good-hearted, generous people, who bought into the American Dream that is now crumbling around them, some of whom don't have a clue as to why.
I can't hate them, and I can't wish the worst for them for believing in George Bush as if he were the Lord Savior Jesus Christ himself. It's extremely pitiable.
The manipulators deserve to be frog-marched to Guantanamo Bay, but the manipulated--those who support Bush Inc. in direct opposition to their own interests and those of their fellow Americans, out of emotional and intellectual deficiency--need to be understood and helped, even if--and especially if--Bush Inc. retains power.
What these people have planned for us, and for the world, is not pretty. We're all in the same boat. And Kerry getting elected is not necessarily going to make things a whole lot better any time soon.
We may hoot with joy if the people succeed in overturning this junta by legal means, but the problems that Bush Inc. has created (not without Democratic Party help!), including a potential conflragration in the Middle East, further terrorist attacks, and potential economic and ecological collapse, remain to be solved.
Hey--kerry is losing in this poll on MSNBC. Help him win...here
Hey! Didn't the Daily Show already do this?
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