I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Hot Damn! Go Big John!!!
Kerry 1, Junior 0!
30% of the people who took the CBS poll thought it was a tie? i watched it on pbs; i have no idea how they showed it on cbs but jeez. 30% a tie?? but hey, most people thought kerry won.
CNN / GALLUP POLL ON WHO WON DEBATE
Kerry: 53
Bush: 37
So, that means the actual results are more like Kerry 60 and Bush 30, right?
30% of the people who took the CBS poll thought it was a tie? i watched it on pbs; i have no idea how they showed it on cbs but jeez. 30% a tie?? but hey, most people thought kerry won.
Help Bush find a job that won't be such "hard work".
Sweet, sweet, sweet.
..........................
Kerry Presidential, Bushie Yammering poodle 
.
............................
Excuse me, Atrios. Your recent posts have been very cocky when you need to be fighting the most. These CNN fucks are trying to turn our victory into a stalemate. Aaron Brown said awhile ago that there was "no decisive winner" of the debates, and David Gergen said the same thing earlier. This, despite the fact that three polls (CBS, ABC, and Gallup, which is effectively a Republican polling firm) have come out showing people thought Kerry beat Bush by double digits in the debate. Moreover, Bill "AEI" Schneider, who is no doubt lying, is trashing Kerry by saying that Shinseki wasn't fired for his comments on Iraq, claiming that Kerry overstated the cost of the Iraq war occupation, and he is claiming that Kerry's point about us pulling troops out of Afghanistan to send them to Iraq is void because Bin Laden is thought to be in Pakistan. What UTTER BULLSHIT! Yes, there are many favorable comments about Kerry's performance on CNN tonight, but they are obviously grudging. Moreover, Republicans, despite CNN et al.'s pro-Bush coverage, do not stand for any negative media comments about Bush. So why does John Kerry deserve any less from us? We have to fight this media even now in our hour of apparent victory i order to hold onto it. We need to write in to them and Media Matters needs to get on the bullshit their committing tonight. We need to fight this tonight and never stop until we win this goddamn thing.
fuckin a, man. that's beautiful.
woo hoo!
Of course, I can just imagine the spin off this:
"John Kerry is so inconsisitent, he can't even keep his position in the polls..."
I will be so glad when this crap is over and W is clearing brush where he belongs.
Can we keep voting (sorry, late to the game). Is it over, or can someone post the links.
You sure you got the right CBS Poll. I swear it's 91% Kerry, 7% Bush from the one I've seen.
Thugniks must be in shockeroo. 
.
...............
Whoo hoo.
................
Don't misunderestimte the negative impact of the Chimperor's leash remark. My two politically independent daughters went ballistic.
Did the leash remark offend other young women?
I think CNN and MSNBC are open still
Just emailed a bunch of networks, tried to spin. I guess the interned HAS made a James Carville out of each of us. Easiest spin? -- Kerry is presidential, Bush befuddled, angry.
Please email the networks or call, it makes a difference! This is information warfare.
CNN
(404) 827-1500
Larry King LIVE: comments form
American Morning: comments form
MSNBC
(212) 664-4444
Hardball with Chris Matthews: hardball@msnbc.com
ABC
(212) 456-7777
Nightline: nightline@abcnews.com
CBS
(212) 975-4321
CBS Evening News: evening@cbsnews.com
NBC
(212) 664-4444
Nightly News: Nightly@NBC.com
The Today Show: today@nbc.com
C-SPAN
(202) 737-3220
Talking points:
* America saw John Kerry as our next President tonight.
* Kerry showed strength, conviction, and a steady command of the facts.
* Kerry left no doubt he can lead the fight to hunt and kill the terrorists.
* Kerry offered hope for a fresh start in Iraq so we can finish the job. Kerry has specific plans: Bush had shallow promises.
Fight on.
PS - Bobby - Damn straight.
BBC Online Poll:
VOTE RESULTS
Who do you think won the debate?
George W Bush
7%
John Kerry
88%
It was a draw
5%
6115 Votes Cast
Results are indicative and may not reflect public opinion
Ha, ha, ha, who looks dweebie now .
................
But what does Poland think?
OT-Sort of: Great evening made even better: Pearl Jam on Letterman singing "Masters of War". Absolutely awesome. I stood and applauded in my living room.
I AM SO TIRED OF THE MEDIA!!!!!!!
The Talking Point...
"Well the polls say Kerry won, but I think it was more of a draw."
Shorter Media to the public:
"Go Cheney Yourself"!!!! We think it is a draw!!!
A tie?!? Just shows how much influence network and cable news commentators have since none of them were really willing to concede the truth--a complete Kerry victory. Who signs these peoples' paychecks? Rove?
I think some people thought "Abu Ghraib" Old Gold when the leash comment came out.
CNN / GALLUP POLL ON WHO WON DEBATE
Kerry: 53
Bush: 37
So, that means the actual results are more like Kerry 60 and Bush 30, right?
In fact, the pollees beforehand favored Bush over Kerry, 52-44%, as I recall, making Kerry's win all the more impressive.
How do we stop this!!!
I knew it. George did terrible. Bye-bye, Georgie, you might want to call Mummy up and tell her to have your bedroom ready at Kennebunkport for January 20th, because you're going to be out of the People's House.
Aaron Brown said awhile ago that there was "no decisive winner" of the debates, and David Gergen said the same thing earlier.
Ha, ha, ha, who looks dweebie now .
................
Dewey beats Truman .
...............
Blink blink blink.
Can I say it again? WOOOOO fucking HOOOOO!
Today is a good day.
With Bobby: Take Back the Media.
The real job is tomorrow. Digby says Repub Matthew Dowd is already talking about cutting an ad based on Kerry's flip-flop in the debate. Digby said he will post all emails/phone numbers tomorrow. We need to push back the pushback and make sure that they won't rewrite tonight's history.
Great job, everyone.
Kerry in landslide.
At one point, Bush started saying: "Wait wait, let me finish", but no one was audibly cutting him off. Was he wearing an earpiece?
This was a decisive blow, Bushie is downie down down .
....................
chris/tx
cnn poll is on their front page
www.cnn.com at the bottom right
I dig how horrible liberal-democratic controlled NPR called a tie first.
From what I hear, the right-wing boards are in an uproar over the poor performance of chimpy...
And another thing...
They keep saying Bush looked annoyed, but we don't think it will matter....
Shorter Media: "We won't show that a thousand times like we did Gore"
MOO-LAH
Heard Andy Sullivan was offended by the leash remark:
"No president who has presided over Abu Ghraib should ever say he wants to put anyone on a leash."
Wall Street Journal http://discussions.wsj.com/n/mb/...e=2&
submit=Vote
Kerry 71%
Bush 24%
chris/tx--
Here's a huge list, it's a freeper link BTW.
"WHERE'S MY WHISKEY"
A is not talking about online polls, can't be freeped.
Somebody needs to smack Josh Marshall. A rational person can only be scared by the inability of Bush to answer a simple question without the stammering and tense interludes of silence when he needed an answer but couldn't think of one finally falling back on the same tired phrases.
Anyone else just waiting ... waiting for Kerry to bring up Osama vs. Saddam? Wondering if he would? Wondering which of his "handlers" freaked out, and which ones jabbed their first with a "YES!!" motion?
I was so thrilled he played the Osama Card. He's got guts.
We have to push back against the "it was a draw" shit.
That is how the whores are going to spin it tomorrow, so get on the phones!
You're excepting an internet poll -- composed of a self-selecting group of people -- as definitive? Are ya kidding me?
the current spin seems to be that Kerry won, but it does not matter because everyone has made up their minds.
Wow, one encounter with a Real Dude and Bushie turns into a yammering poodle, this shows how goofy the media was letting him get away with fluff for so long.
................
Just saying .
.................
Moreover, Bill "AEI" Schneider, who is no doubt lying, is trashing Kerry by saying that Shinseki wasn't fired for his comments on Iraq,
Kerry said "retired", not fired...
Why does this guy have a job?
hannity says gwb won - "the best he's ever seen him"... so what r u folks talkin about?
Alice, Bushies were frantic for a Bushie turn around, this is one downie down down for them.
....................
Once again Olberman gets it right: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5445086/
cnn poll is on their front page
www.cnn.com at the bottom right
mishimishi
Yes, Indeed... the "Bottom Right"...
NEWSFLASH: George Bush admits in debate to wanting to put collars on his daughters. Kinky incest fantasies? You decide.
Roves on C-Span now. Poland!! Poland!
Fucking Poland!
Jerry Ford Strikes again!!!
I saw President Kerry more strongly than ever before tonight, but there was one problem and I'm going to throw it out before everyone else does...
"Wow, he's going to be the strongest shede-of-grey president we've ever had."
What it means is Kerry is more or less stitching for the wound. His presence alone will change as much as he will himself, and I just hope there is more to him than that.
Not being Bush may be enough, but man I want so much more. It's a good thing Nader wasn't there to debate. He'd make them both look like idiots.
I just tried to vote on the Ms. Magazine link. You have to subscribe to Ms. first before you vote. Sneaky. I bet the Freepers aren't overloading that poll.
Just emailed a bunch of networks, tried to spin. I guess the interned HAS made a James Carville out of each of us. Easiest spin? -- Kerry is presidential, Bush befuddled, angry.
Please email the networks or call, it makes a difference! This is information warfare.
CNN
(404) 827-1500
Larry King LIVE: comments form
American Morning: comments form
MSNBC
(212) 664-4444
Hardball with Chris Matthews: hardball@msnbc.com
ABC
(212) 456-7777
Nightline: nightline@abcnews.com
CBS
(212) 975-4321
CBS Evening News: evening@cbsnews.com
NBC
(212) 664-4444
Nightly News: Nightly@NBC.com
The Today Show: today@nbc.com
C-SPAN
(202) 737-3220
Talking points:
* America saw John Kerry as our next President tonight.
* Kerry showed strength, conviction, and a steady command of the facts.
* Kerry left no doubt he can lead the fight to hunt and kill the terrorists.
* Kerry offered hope for a fresh start in Iraq so we can finish the job. Kerry has specific plans: Bush had shallow promises.
Fight on.
It was a draw in the same way Iraq is a draw.
I just got an email from the Clinton Presidential Center, their monthly e-newsletter.
I think it's nice that they sent this email out tonight.
Just hope The Big Dog can make at least a few campaign stops before the election.
This is hard.
a draw? yeah right, you mean Kerry drew blood, bitch.
hannity says gwb won - "the best he's ever seen him"... so what r u folks talkin about?
Greta's on now - she had to take over after Hannity threatened Colmes with a broken beer bottle.
Joe Scarborough: “It was John Kerry’s best performance ever…As far as the debate goes, I don’t see how anybody could look at this debate and not score this a very clear win on points for John Kerry.”
Muhuwahahahaha!!!!
Rats.
Sinking ship.
Fleeing.
Ron Reagan destroyed rosy Ben Ginsberg by saying to him you prolly think things in Iraq are going great too. Squarely hit him right on the belt.
But, but, but,,, I'm presidentule-
Deana Holmes thank you .
.............
frankly0, excellent point, thanks for the update.
.............
Democrats must put a video together of the President rolling his eyes, smirking, and looking annoyed...
Thanks pixie - Went and voted on all of them, FWIW.
I have not seen anything definitive on how these polls atrios posted are derived. Internet or not? Closed or not?
Bush blamed the situation in Iraq on the US military winning "too soon"? How is that comment not the headline? Bush's contempt for the military and for the American people is unlimited.
Poor Hannity’s gonna need his blankie .
.................
all the tokyo rosies gonna need their blankies.
...................
The reason why I'm so pissed off can be summed up in this graph, which shows a negligible bounce after the Kerry convention. There is no question that Kerry held a wonderful convention. It was a clear victory for Kerry and our side, and we deserved to take immense pride. However, these so-called reporters on CNN, MSNBC and the networks manipulated and ruined his potential bounce by manipulating public opinion.
Let's not let the SCLM manipulate public opinion against Kerry again:
I'm just going to repost RR's phone numbers and email addresses of the various networks:
CNN
(404) 827-1500
Larry King LIVE: comments form
American Morning: comments form
MSNBC
(212) 664-4444
Hardball with Chris Matthews: hardball@msnbc.com
ABC
(212) 456-7777
Nightline: nightline@abcnews.com
CBS
(212) 975-4321
CBS Evening News: evening@cbsnews.com
NBC
(212) 664-4444
Nightly News: Nightly@NBC.com
The Today Show: today@nbc.com
C-SPAN
(202) 737-3220
But, but, but,,, I'm presidentule-
Sorry folks, that was me.
And I am very Presidentule.
Nighty night .
...................
So, did anyone else notice that Bush refused to say "nuclear", mostly because he can't, I suppose.
NOOOO kuuu lar...NOOO KU LARRR...oh hell, WMD.
They must have ads out before Dowd...showing John Kerry showing toughness..
I like the FBI retort and the Osama attacked us retort...
And show Bush annoyed...
If I don't see an ad in the morning..this win will quickly subside...the news programs should be playing...
Offense, Offense, Offense...
Bush blamed the situation in Iraq on the US military winning "too soon"?
Crazy ain't it? I mean what Bush is saying is that they failed to prepare for the best case scenario! How hard should it be to do that?
This debate will surely EMBOLDEN Kerry for round II
You're excepting an internet poll -- composed of a self-selecting group of people -- as definitive? Are ya kidding me?
David Kenner
The polls in Atrios' post are not internet polls. The internet polls are nowhere near that close. Bush looks like a bug on a windshield there. Are ya retarded?
Watching a little CON- Aaron Brown has a bigger puss on tonight than Chimpy McSmirk. On the plus side, Aaron "Boondocks" McGruder coming up next.
wsj.com online poll -- as of 12:45 am edt it's 7362 votes -- Kerry 71%, Bush 23%
My favorite moment in the debate was when Dubya was asked under what circumstances would he proactively deploy U.S. troops.
He responded by stating he didn't want U.S. citizens to be subject to international courts.
I'm glad he was able to clarify his position on further troop deployments.
My favorite part was when Bush begged for a rebuttal and then stared at the camera for 10 seconds only to say 'it's hard... hard work... very hard'
And what was with the cheesy radio shack indicator boxes?
CNN poll 87% Kerry
11% Bush
thank god, thank god, thank god
I was really starting to sweat there..
When one hear on CNN (such a very liberal media outlet, yes my precious)that Kerry did well, one starts to think that this horrible nightmare might soon come to an end...
Best laugh: Bush on "giving love" to military widows. What was THAT?
Must've been thinking of all the fun those OB-GYNS would be having if they could just get malpractice tort reform.
What you want to bet that a "Kerry hates Poland" meme will be tried?
Just emailed a bunch of networks, tried to spin. I guess the interned HAS made a James Carville out of each of us. Easiest spin? -- Kerry is presidential, Bush befuddled, angry.
Please email the networks or call, it makes a difference! This is information warfare.
CNN
(404) 827-1500
Larry King LIVE: comments form
American Morning: comments form
MSNBC
(212) 664-4444
Hardball with Chris Matthews: hardball@msnbc.com
ABC
(212) 456-7777
Nightline: nightline@abcnews.com
CBS
(212) 975-4321
CBS Evening News: evening@cbsnews.com
NBC
(212) 664-4444
Nightly News: Nightly@NBC.com
The Today Show: today@nbc.com
C-SPAN
(202) 737-3220
Talking points:
* America saw John Kerry as our next President tonight.
* Kerry showed strength, conviction, and a steady command of the facts.
* Kerry left no doubt he can lead the fight to hunt and kill the terrorists.
* Kerry offered hope for a fresh start in Iraq so we can finish the job. Kerry has specific plans: Bush had shallow promises.
Fight on.
Did anyone catch Karl Rove on CSPAN? Not only did he regurgitate the same talking points as Bush (mixed messages; wrong war, wrong place, wrong time; grand diversion) but he was totally sputtering and floundering. If this keeps up, the real winner in November will be America.
My favorite part was when John Kerry continuously bitchslapped the taste out of George Bush for 90 minutes.
Good looking on the polls.
Write letters to the editor tomorrow!
HAH! "But beliefs don't mean anything if you're STUPID!" - Aaron McGruder
"Isn't that really arrogant?" - Aaron Brown
I know which Aaron gets my vote!
goddamn -- aaron mcgruder is on cnn and flat out saying folks is missing the elephant in the room -- bush is stoooopid.
making aaron brown nervous.
On CNN Aaron Brown, the cartoonist who writes Boondocks is saying that Bush is "not a smart man." Aaron Brown of all people retorted by calling him "arrogant" for saying that and proceeded to say he was insulting all the people who think he's such a great leader. Aaron is whoring for Bush. Just listen and write in! Atrios, please pay attention to the atrocities going on here!
Well, I saw the whole thing, I called Independent friends and asked their impression.
Clearly a SOLID Kerry win.
nice job john. thank you.
Did anyone catch Karl Rove on CSPAN? Not only did he regurgitate the same talking points as Bush (mixed messages; wrong war, wrong place, wrong time; grand diversion) but he was totally sputtering and floundering.
Fry piggy. Man, that debate was a total disaster for Bush.
Yes, Falstaff -- great moment! Deer in the headlights, then...aw, gee, it's hard work.
the cartoonist who writes Boondocks
saw it, that guy was brilliant, he sure told off the corporate media whore right back in his face
Aaron McGruder just turned himself into the media's next whipping boy...
And I actually liked his cartoon...
How sad...
Singing...
Bye Bye Mr. 'Murikan pie
Drove your Hummer through the Summer but the oil wells are dry
singing good old boys are
drinking Bushie's old lies
knowing "This is now the day that we die....this is now the day that we die..."
Did you write the book of truth, and do you believe in the bloggers' sleuth...
On and on. I'm proud of you, John.
its hard work ya know... (waaaa, mommy)
does anyone have a transcript or a TIVO from which they can make a transcript of that exchange between McGruder and Aaron Brown? It was an amazing example of bald truth by McGruder versus obvious whoring for Bush by Aaron Brown.
Here's what I've been emailing to the whores:
There is no doubt in my mind that America saw John Kerry as our next President tonight. He showed strength, conviction, and a steady command of the facts. I have the utmost confidence that John Kerry can lead the fight to hunt and kill the terrorists.
I felt he offered hope for a fresh start in Iraq so we can finish the job. Kerry has specific plans: Bush has empty promises and catchy phrases.
JB
Somerby: How substantial was Gore’s apparent success?
According to NBC’s post-debate poll, 46
percent said Gore had won, 36 percent picked
Bush. At CBS, the margin was wider; it was
Gore, 56-42. CNN had a seven-point spread,
48-41. Only ABC had it close; in their
survey, 42 percent picked Gore, 39 percent
favored Bush. (For the record, more Bush
voters watched the debate. Gore won the
instant polls anyway.) Adding to the
unanimous verdict, Time polled viewers on
October 4-5, the first two days post-debate;
their sample picked Gore, 51-37. In fact,
Gore “won the debate” in these five polls by
an average margin of 9.6 percent. In these,
the five major instant polls, Gore “won” by a
serious margin.
So viewers favored Gore fairly strongly. But
what happened when the press got its spin
machines going?
These polls are obviously FReeper'ed
up
Every other poll (see Democratic Underground) has Kerry leading by a 70-30 margin
Kerry wiped his azz with Bush tonite
Do you realize this is the first time Bush has had to answer tough questions about foreign policy for more than 5 minutes
He showed his true colors tonite
If you still vote for Bush after tonite please please let me know why
The man is moron
Rove knows
Karen Hughes knows it
No wonder they dont let him have press conferences ...unless hes talking in coded language to his base...he has no clue how to engage in a discussion without rehashing talking points or generalized platitudes
The man is an embarassment to the office of president..
Hard work. Hard choices. Liberate.
Blink blink.
Jesus ... how about Aaron McGruder on CNN? He just called Bush stupid on live TV.
I just tried to vote on the Ms. Magazine link. You have to subscribe to Ms. first before you vote. Sneaky. I bet the Freepers aren't overloading that poll.
I hit the record button on CNN (thank God for Tivo's cache!) right after Aaron McGruder called Bush dumb. Give me a few minutes, I'll transcribe. It was a wonder.
John Kerry said that Hussein was a threat. NO, HE WASN'T A THREAT.
Did anyone notice show shocked . . . shocked! . . . Aaron Brown was when McGruder said that Bush was "not a smart man"?
Loving the GOP spin about how the town hall forum style of the next "debate" will really be to Chimpy's advantage.
Am I the only one who remembers how badly Gore kicked his ass in that debate forum last time around? I mean, to the point where it almost got painful, like watching someone teasing a caged animal by poking it with a stick.
There's no plausible way to spin Smirk's bumbling, slouching, petulance during this debate as "presidential." I don't think the media whores are going to be able to fashion a silk purse out this particular sow's ear.
Freepers are having a meltdown!
Hee.
"Bush got creamed," quoth Freepi.
Hee.
BTW, is that Gallup result weighted the same way their previous polls were? Because if so, it's even more impressive.
A.
Aaron brown just said that the Washington Times is "somewhat conservative" (!)
He's on a role tonight as far as whoring goes.
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/polls/
Another poll.
Bush going down. TIMBER!!!!
/sneering
its hard work.. everybody knows that
jeez what a whiner.
Current spin seems to be that, while the press is conceding victory to Kerry,"that's ok because we all know W isn't a good debater" -- and the debates aren't going to influence any voting decisions anyway (yeah, right) -- and why is Fineman giving the RNC pointers on their ad strategy ("they'll hammer him on the 'global test' reference; I'm sure they'll have an ad up tomorrow")? This ain't the time for just gloating -- (who CARES about the pronunciation of nuclear??) We've still got loads of work to do, and we know it!
Just read the first half hour of Freeper comments- even some of them admit Bush SUCKed ...
"It's really painful listening to Bush. Kerry has had him on the defensive from the beginning. Kerry sounds confident while Bush has a pleading defensive tone. Not good so far."
"Wish I could agree, but I think Kerry has the upper hand so far. This is not good."
Of course the meme is Lehrer is biased & Kerry is lying & Bush (God bless him) is resolute.
I'm starting to itch - wonder if I have any scabie med?
it looks like cnn is replaying aaron brown at 4a. it will be interesting to see if the mcgruder segment is edited in the replay.
Take another look at those polls ... CNN is now pushing 80% for Kerry ... apparently all that 'balanced' spin is not working
Kevin Drum:
THE DRAFT....By the way, did anyone notice that Bush's closing statement had a gratuitous reference to maintaining a volunteer army? Kerry never even mentioned the possibility of Bush reinstating the draft, but Bush apparently felt like he had to defend himself against it anyway.
It was smart of Kerry not to bring it up, since there's not much he could do with it in a formal debate setting. (What's he going to do? Ask for a promise that Bush will never institute a draft no matter what?) Still, it's obviously a background issue that makes Bush nervous, and one that campaign surrogates are likely to keep quietly pushing in the background.
That's two Freudian slips by Bush by my count: That weird business about about leashing (abughraibtorturefantasy) his daughters and then this.
Toward the end of the debate, Kerry referred to the conduct of the Iraq war and said "It‘s not what the American people thought they were getting when they voted."
Bush looked like he had just been hit in the forehead by a spitball. The brilliance of that line is that it works on so many levels. Bush wants to say that Kerry's and Congress's vote to give the President discretion to use force was a vote for war, but this line shifts the agency back where it ought to have been (and dangerously hasn't been): the people of the United States whose collective will ought to be expressed by their elected representatives. This line put Bush on the defensive because it subtly but unmistakeably made it clear that when Bush lost the 2000 popular vote, he obviously did not get a mandate for an elective war. In the Fall of 2002, perhaps the American people would have given the President discretion (to be used wisely), but in March 2003, the American people would not have gone to war.
It was a powerful point and I think you could see from his reaction that Bush understood it.
Kerry campaign strategists please take note.
The thing about Gore was that he definately came off as condesending
Kerry on the other hand was clear and concise and very specific with his answers
Plus Bush took a step back from 2000
He looked uninterested and unwilling to engage in the debate
The media will spin it...but they will have a tough time
and please...I absolutely do not want to hear
"Kerry still has no plan for Iraq"
media whores : "does Bush have a plan"
The spin is now in the hands of the print media.
Get a load of this crap from cbsnews.com
Experts Rate Debate A Draw
(CBS) By David Paul Kuhn,
CBSNews.com Chief Political Writer
"Anyone who declares a winner in this debate is a predictable partisan. They both did beautiful."
Larry Sabato, director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia
It was a draw in the same way Iraq is a draw.
It was a draw in the same way Agincourt was a draw.
A.
Good news. But tomorrow is another day.
Stay focused, y'all.
Eye of the tiger.
It ain't over until, well they steal another fucking election.
Mars...well...you know.
Over on RCP's comments board, the comments basically fall into 3 categories:
1) I wasn't sure but now I'm voting for Kerry
2) I'm voting for Bush, but let's face it: Kerry won
3) Bush did great and made everyone see that flip-flopping traitorous baby-killer for who he really is.
Draw your own conclusions.
One other note: they are *pouncing* on the "global test" remark. Prepare accordingly - something like "Bush couldn't even remember Osama Bin Laden's name" should do.
What was smart was that the the first debate was on foreign policy, bush's supposed strong point. Just wait till we get to the domestic stuff, Kerry is about to crush the litte man
Modest Proposals about what Kerry will do so much better once president, simply drawn from recent events:
Anti-Gay Marriage will sink like a stone
We'll stop being fed pure disinformation from Iraq, and may even see a President attend the funerals of some soldiers.
Somebody might start doing something to prepare forthe hordes of physically and psychologically maim soldiers coming home.
the debate starts on repeat on CNN, if you want to see the part you missed while posting here!
http://www.showgeorgethedoor.org...RK7O1E&
b=200630
Here is a handy engine that creates letters to the editor so that you can send a letter to tell them that Kerry won the debate
I had no doubt Kerry would come out looking like a president and Bush, well, looking like Bush.
Kerry looked like Reagan debating Carter, and Bush looked like there was a dog turd on his podium.
To sum up, VERY EXCITED! I'm VERY EXCITED ABOUT THESE DEVELOPMENTS! I got a friend who I watched the debates with that was a WH intern for Clinton and even he agreed that Kerry not only looked Presidential, but looked like he would be a better president than BC.
And Bush looked like a blithering fool. The sad part is, he's going to be in charge until Jan. no matter what.
CUT/PASTE/Just get it out, NOW. Rove is working against you as we speak. Fight!
----------
LTE: (3 Newspapers)
Gentlemen,
I would like to express my inspiration with John Kerry's handling of the presidential debates at University of Miami Thursday night. Kerry looked like a president, while Bush was constantly on defense. I am currently a registered Independent and was undecided until I saw John Kerry's decisive and succinct performance tonight. Normally, I do not feel that either the Republican or Democratic platform represents what I truly care for. I support either party from election to election, but this time, after seeing John Kerry confident and strong showing I will be voting for him for president come November.
For the first time since a while I have seen a man finally fitting to be president. In 2000 Al Gore seemed too distant and aloof, George W. Bush, with his winks and smirks just did not look credible. Now I feel we have somebody that people across the nation will be proud to say is our president.
It is very difficult to discern a true character of a particular candidate in the media market dominated by pundits, politicos and 24-hour news channels. After all the controversies surrounding this election from the Abu Ghraib Prison scandal to the Swift Boat Ads I have lost any trust I would have in the conventional news sources. This is why the debate proved such a great opportunity to really get a feel for a man's true character.
Our country seems to be at a crossroads in the middle of monumental conflicts. The war in Iraq, poorly recovering economy, national security and the war on terror have all put a great strain on all of us. I think its important to put aside our differences and decide who is the leader with the strongest character to get us through these difficult times. We finally have a candidate on the order of John F. Kennedy or Ronald Reagan. After watching the debates tonight, I have no doubt in my mind that John Kerry is more than ready to step into the shoes of a commander-in-chief, and take our country into a new, bright future.
Sincerely,
================================== ================================== =========================
Email to networks (10x):
John Kerry Won the Debate!
I am truly inspired with John Kerry's handling of the presidential debates at University of Miami. Kerry looked like a president, while Bush was constantly on defense. I am currently a registered Independent and was undecided until I saw John Kerry's decisive and succinct performance tonight. He was clear, precise and confident. I believe America saw John Kerry as our next President tonight. Bush had a record of failure to defend, and he failed to defend it. I couldn't believe it, but he truly had no plan, no clue for ending the chaos. Pretending is no substitute for planning.
Our country is at a crossroads in the middle of monumental conflicts. The war in Iraq, poorly re
Experts Rate Debate A Draw
(CBS) By David Paul Kuhn,
CBSNews.com Chief Political Writer
What's this asshole's email address?
CNN tonight, but they are obviously grudging. Moreover, they are freak'n whores. can't make them report the real news.
one thing is certain it wasn't a tie, which obviously means bush lost. remember, it was the whores who helped start bush's war. and the whores got big, i mean big, tax cuts. you would think if your bloody rich, that wouldn't mean so much to you, but then you might not be a whore.
John Kerry Kicks Ass!!!
two more debates, i'm still hoping for a fish gutting.
Aaron McGruder has been a target for years. He can take it.
Shit, he told a bunch of white liberals to fuck off recently, too.
The guy's got guts. Calls it like he sees it. He doesn't seem to have a lot of fear.
He's cool.
If Kerry won...why is the media calling it a tie/draw?
and more importantly....
What are you going to do about it???
Poll:
Will Karl the Pimp beat the chimp with a wire hanger or a rubber hose after tonight's lackluster performance?
Wire Hanger: 24%
Rubber Hose: 63%
Both: 13%
The Global Test thing is easy to beat.
Before this meme gets out of hand, here's what Kerry actually said, from the WP transcript:
No president, though all of American history, has ever ceded, and nor would I, the right to preempt in any way necessary to protect the United States of America.
But if and when you do it, Jim, you have to do it in a way that passes the test, that passes the global test where your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing and you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons.
Translation: Of course you can defend America without permission. But you have to do it in a way that you can still look the both Americans and the world in the eye afterwards. Would it have been appropriate to drop nukes on Afghanistan? etc.
First part of Brown v. McGruder (just getting started):
AB: During the conventions we used this space to explore a different point of view, a contrarian point of view if you will,it's safe to say there's frequently no more contrarian than that of a cartoonist.We're joined by Aaron McGruder, his cartoon is "The Boondocks," and is syndicated most days in 300 newspapers, but sometimes a few less, depending on the material. It's good to see you.
AM: It's good to see you.
AB: All right, two sentences, who won the debate?
AM: Kerry. He got his ass whupped.
AB: Who did?
AM: Kerry. I'm sorry, no I'm sorry, I mean Bush.
AB: I set up that whole line up, and then you blew it.
AM: I did. Um, it was a, uh, it was a very clear victory. You know, what bothers me about, um, shows like this and all the news shows, after Bush talks, I see all these smart people completely ignoring the elephant in the room. The elephant in the room, which nobody wants to say, is that Bush is not a smart man. He cannot articulate well. He cannot speak in complete sentences.
AB: Well, but--
AM: And everyone just ignores it. Like that's okay.
[more]
KERRY'S "GLOBAL TEST" comment..just to set the record straight...
Right wingers are quoting kerry's remark about going to war that must pass the "global test" as proof that he defers to the UN or whatever.
Actually, Kerry used a poor choice of words; if you look at what he was saying, he meant "global" in the "universal" sense: and the test he speaks of is a test of whether YOUR OWN CITIZENS understand why you're going to war. It's almost the opposite of what the wingnuts are saying. I think we should publicize this so that Dems can respond with facts when attacked in the media. Here is the quote:
Kerry's full 'global test' statement:
From the debate transcript at PennLive: http://pennlive.com/newsflash/
po...930_debate.html
"But if and when you do it, Jim, you have to do it in a way that passes the test, that passes the global test where your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing and you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons.
Howard Fineman -- mega whore
Osaddamma Bin Hussein, Sheik Mohammed mastermind of 9/11, wha?
Stubborn, arrogant, and defensive. George W. Bush is just sad.
George W. Bush: Wrong to be certain, certain to be wrong.
The spin is now in the hands of the print media.
Write a letter to the editor!
My letter to Aaron Brown- please vent with me at him here.
I used to enjoy watching Aaron Brown because I thought he was intelligent and relatively nonpartisan. Tonight he disgraced himself and lost another viewer. ("There was no clear winner" - who is he kidding?) He has been dismissive and condescending toward his guests who, one after another, point out what poll after poll has been showing tonight- even most Republicans think Kerry was the clear winner. He has been defending Mr. Bush at every turn- I thought he was supposed to be neutral and let his partisan guests do that? He looks almost as uncomfortable as Mr. Bush did during the debate.
I'm sorry CNN continues to try to outFOX the other cable news channels. I used to be a devoted viewer- now you've given me one more reason not to bother. Maybe there's still something worth watching over at MSNBC.
Tonight's debate underscores the obvious character defect of the president to it's most elemental essence. Bush is a punk. Always has been, always will be. That alone makes him unworthy to hold this office.
Amen, Something Polish.
Kerry did well, initial CNN polls (for instance) were nutty for Kerry, but his lead is shrinking. The Republithugs are mobilizing to blitz.
And we still have Rove's "few surprises" waiting for us in October. Stay focused.
My personal mass e-mail to the Media:
Bush Proves Kerry Is Right In First Debate
John Kerry finally showed America what he's made of in his first debate with George Bush. While the President evaded most of the questions, stopped and stuttered, and stumbled over his talking point notes, Senator Kerry presented a clearcut case as to why he would do a better job at winning the war on terror. The best judge of this interpretation would be President Bush himself who proved Senator Kerry right in his assessment that Iraq was a detour in the war against Al Qaeda when he couldn't even remember Osama bin Laden's name.
Thanks,
Ron Brynaert
better go to time magazine . looks as if you can vote early and often and repubs are doing it and changing numbers to fit time message that both scored .
miranda! more more! you're brillant to transcript this, please more!
two more debates, i'm still hoping for a fish gutting.
charley
Knife goes in
Guts come out
[Dear Secret Service: Simpsons reference]
Honestly, while Kerry was good, he could have been much sharper. But by contrast Bush was absolutely awful. He was gore when the camera was on Kerry, and he was Elmer Fudd when the camera was on him. My wife lost it when he came out with 'Vladamur' for Putin's first name. A redneck speaks Russian.
wrong wrong wrong!! I love how bush kept repeating "wrong war, wrong place, wrong time...." That's right, MF. he's so dumb providing the mantra that will stick with the american undecideds.
And what's with the weird growth above his eye? Plus his face was orange and his ears were white... like all the blood drained right out....
Hey, RR: Could you give it a rest? Enough of the "here's what you have to do" list of things we "have to do."
I clicked on all the freeper polls that weren't registered or too cookie heavy. Must have carple tunnel (I cant't spell for shit, so sue me) syndrome by now.
But back to reality. No thinking person could have looked at the dignified Kerry and the oddly slouching, slumping nit-witted Bu$h and not see that Kerry is Bu$h's superior by far. No way. And I agree that the elephant is in the room is the FACT that bush is a stupid man and a careless leader more drunk with power and devoted to money than doing what's right for US.
He proves it every day.
Wonder how the American (and Australian) SCLM are going to sping that ..
Washington Post:
"President Bush has thrown Sen. John F. Kerry's words back on him during nearly every speech of the campaign, but he rocked back in irritation during the first presidential debate Thursday night when the Massachusetts senator did the same thing to him.
Bush's aides knew that his temper was a potential vulnerability, and his debate coaching sessions included practice in not getting rattled. But the camera shutters started snapping as the president shot a look into the University of Miami Convocation Center when Kerry seized on Bush's refrain that "the enemy hit us" and to point out that was not Saddam Hussein."
re the global test: if you're against a global test for going to war, that pretty much means you don't want to hold other countries to the high standards that America should have for going to war. (note I did not say that America does have, i said should have.)
anyway, those people who are against a global test for war want to hand the keys to the world over to the worst thugs and tyrants. I don't think other countries should start wars on a whim any more than I think the US should.
'xcuse the repeat, but...
W practiced 6 months for this!!!
BWAHAAAAAAAAAA
Bush's notes found!!
http://www.thatsuncalledfor.com/debate_notes/
wrong war, wrong place, wrong time
...I agree. Bush repeated this so many times, he sounded convinced. Somebody in the Bush camp really screwed up on that one.
David Brooks, Reasonable Conservative(tm) "really, really" felt that it was tie.
Who am I to argue with that? Therefore, despite all appearances to the contrary, I must conclude that the debate was actually a tie.
Time Magazine Poll
Vote early. vote often, as mentioned upthread by James.
WHAT ABOUT POLAND?
But Bush also made an error when he corrected Kerry to say he forgot to mention Poland supplied forces when the invasion began. Kerry said there were three countries --Great Britain, Australia and the United States -- and Bush said, "actually he forgot Poland."
Poland later supplied troops, and actually commanded a zone of Iraq. But they were not part of the original ground invasion. And although Bush said there are 30 countries in the coalition, he neglected to say that about a half dozen countries have withdrawn their troops in recent months.
Two statements, gaffes to be sure, that we should hammer Bush with:
"Of course we're after Saddam Hussein, uh, Osama bin Laden."
"You cannot lead if you send mexed missages."
Of course, nobody *has* to do any such thing. I understand reticence; after all, it's hard work.
It was a draw in the same way Iraq is a draw.
it was a draw in the same way vietnam or iraq is a draw. [new talking points]
will drudge still be on the tan beat tomorrow, or will the right have to start responding seriously to a serious man ?
two more debates, i'm still hoping for a fish gutting.
charley
Charley, you got pretty close to that tonite. Bush sucked out loud. Can you imagine the slouching, sweating fool bush in A Town Hall Debate? HAHAHAHAHa.
What was up with this part:
You know, I think about Missy Johnson. She‘s a fantastic lady I met in Charlotte, North Carolina. She and her son Brian, they came to see me. Her husband PJ got killed. He‘d been in Afghanistan, went to Iraq.
You know, it’s hard work to try to love her as best as I can, knowing full well that the decision I made caused her loved one to be in harm‘s way.
What, does Bush think he’s an OB/GYN now?
the global test
...That point is stupid. Kerry was clearly speaking figuratively about the lack of global support for our unilateral invasion of a country that was not taking an offensive posture. And history shows that how the world views aggression has a direct impact on it's prospects for success down the road.
Forgot about the tan. His words were
so powerful I didn't even notice it.
Bérubé picks the best line of the night:
"I thought they would stay and fight, but they didn’t, and now we’re fighting them now." I think that pretty much sums up Bush’s Iraq policy.
I watched the debate under the stars on a big screen on the quad of the private, conservative univ. in the heart of Dallas that is the Bush-Cheney backyard. The fratboy and their sister-whores were out in full force. (they love Chimpy because he's so much like them!) After the first 10 minutes or so, the silence in the crowd was palpable. Sweet-- so sweet..
President Blinky!
will drudge still be on the tan beat tomorrow, or will the right have to start responding seriously to a serious man ?
Kerry is a gay French homo.
Bush was definitely flustered. Did you get a sense of the effort he had to put into remembering names? Kerry looked great, smiling and pouncing on questions with surprising confidence. The Iraq line is strong -- Kerry could ride this and tax cuts for the rich straight into the White House.
Brown v. McGruder, continued from above.
AB: So--
AM: He's REALLY dumb.
AB: Okay. I, that's a different thing. Let's say he is not articulate. And I think they would concede he is not the most articulate guy on the planet, it doesn't mean he doesn't have convictions, it doesn't mean he believes in something,it doesn't necessarily mean he's wrong, it just means he can't express himself.
AM: But beliefs don't mean anything it you're stupid. And not only that but he, it's almost as if he's talking to the dumbest segment of society, whereas Kerry--
AB: Aaron, don't you think that's an incredibly arrogant way to look at the world?
AM: It's, it's real, you know, it's just that nobody is saying the obvious, which is the man is not smart, and he is the president. And everybody knows it but nobody is saying it.
AB: What does that say then about the 52 or 3 or 1 or 49 and a half tonight percent of the country that not only believe that he is smart enough to run the country now but that he should be the guy to for the next four years?
AM: Uh, I think they have been woefully misled. I think Americans have a natural inclination like all people around the world to believe that their government is not corrupt, that people are fair and smart and aren't lying to them. And history doesn't prove that out, and, uh, current events doesn't prove that out. The American people have been lied to, and it's at the point now where I think that percentage of people, uh, simply are not interested in the truth. They don't want to go down the road [? with the thought ?] where 1. the President is not intelligent and 2. the people behind the President who are intelligent, uh, are deliberately lying and misleading the American people. Constantly.
AB: Let me see how cynical you are.
AM: Okay.
AB: Do you believe that a Kerry presidency would be more honest, or is this a corruption in your view of the entire establishment?
AM: I , I, I don't blame it, I think to say it's the establishment is oversimplified, I think that the institution of journalism has failed in its responsibility to hold the government accountable. The government is doing what it's supposed to do when left unchecked. I do think Kerry would be better than Bush. I think he would be more honest. I think he would be more intelligent. But that, everybody knows that already. That's not really in anyone's debate. It's just, people have picked a side. It's, you know, it's like, you know, it's the kind of weird God people in the middle of America that people that live on the coast fly over and we don't talk to those people, we don't understand those people, and they don't understand us. Uh, but, nobody just says the obvious that the President can't articulate himself and is dumb and drives me nuts.
AB: I got all that. Nice to meet you.\
AM: It is a pleasure. Thanks for having me on.
AB: Come back and see us.
AM: Hey, if you let me. (la
it’s hard work to try to love her as best as I can
that was a great line from bush. fucking mush mouth
Paging Doctor Freud!
But to say that there's only one focus on the war on terror doesn't really understand the nature of the war on terror. Of course we're after Saddam Hussein -- I mean bin Laden.
and WHO doesn't understand the war on terra?
two more debates, i'm still hoping for a fish gutting.
charley
Knife goes in
Guts come out
[Dear Secret Service: Simpsons reference]
Megatron | Email | Homepage | 10.01.04 - 1:10 am | #
yeah, i definitely want to second that. it's a metaphor guys, i wish the president no ill will. as you know he is very hated. i just want him out of office so you can start protecting John Kerry, who will be a true leader, and a competent president.
I'm not sure, but I believe there was a section of the debate where Kerry was 10 seconds into his answer, and then Bush interrupted him and took the remaining 80 seconds of Kerry's time. Jim Lehrer did absolutely nothing! Am I mistaken? Anyway, If this is true, we have to do something to get Gibson and Schiefer in line for the next two debates.
It was a draw in the same way Iraq is a draw.
it was a draw in the same way vietnam or iraq is a draw. [new talking points]
oops, almost made it.
AM: Hey, if you let me. (laughs)
AB: I will. We're equal opportunity here.
i don't know if anyone else has noted this, but CW (conventional wisdom) was that Gore won the first of his 3 debates with bush. Could this be some sorta set-up? bah! scary.
"I thought they would stay and fight, but they didn’t, and now we’re fighting them now." I think that pretty much sums up Bush’s Iraq policy.
Right. They wouldn't let us kill them all like Woolfy said they would.
Blink blink.
Is this thing on?
Blink.
Gotta think of something to say...
Blink blink blink.
Tough work. Hard work.
Blink blink.
Democrats are not...I repeat are not...winning the spin war...
If they don't get the media on board, all the polls in the world will mean nothing...
Freeper say Kerry won...
LGFs says Kerry won...
But the media???? It was draw....
What is this world coming too....
to
Also wasn't there a point at which Kerry made a snappy smart-ass comment about Bush violating the rules of the debate?
Smerk,smerk Blink,blink.
Suck,suck.
Congrats. Your guy did really well tonight. And no cheap shots or quips from either side.
I hate to say it, but those goofy rules produced probably the most substantive, issue oriented debate in recent memory.
On substance, he's still wrong of course, but it was nice to see a real debate in any case.
THEY CALL ME PASTABAGEL
It's a draw because the 99% of the people of Poland thought Bush won. They were pissed at Kerry.
Jose
Bush notes found
That is some funny shit!
How more surreal can the evening be when Chris Matthews won't admit Kerry won, but Joe Scarborough of all people declares it a Kerry victory.
"I'm not sure, but I believe there was a section of the debate where Kerry was 10 seconds into his answer, and then Bush interrupted him and took the remaining 80 seconds of Kerry's time. Jim Lehrer did absolutely nothing! Am I mistaken? Anyway, If this is true, we have to do something to get Gibson and Schiefer in line for the next two debates."
It looked to me like Lehrer stole some time from Kerry. I wonder what kind of tool he had to control the time, who's turn it was. It would be simple to create some kind of tracker.
local tv station quickie webpolls show the same pattern, Kerry wins even on the highly conservative station. the local fox affiliate did not have a poll.
Shorter debate:
KERRY: I can do better, I know I can! (red light goes on as he says "can")
BUSH: Oh! Oh! Let me rebutt! Uhm. Ok. Uhm. This is haaaaard! Being president is haaard work. Everyone should pat me on the head for recognizing what haaaaard work this is. (red light) What was the question? (red light flashing) Oh nevermind--KERRY'S A FLIP-FLOPPER!
UNDECIDED VOTERS: Kery's not as bad as we've heard.
MEDIA: Gosh that was close. Guess we'll call it a tie. Hmm, these poll results are peculiar. Why are they so strangely Kerry-leaning and not so tie-affirming? What could this possibly mean? There is just no way to know for sure. Oh well, once everyone realizes it was a tie (after all, it says so in the news), this polling quirk will self-correct.
I think the blinking was Morse Code. GET ME OUT OF HERE ROVE HELP ME HELP ME I'M MELTING MELTING OH WHAT A WORLD WHAT A WORLD
Anybody see this yet?
http://blog.dccc.org/mt/archives...ves/
001222.html
The [ethics] committee found DeLay "offered to endorse Representative Smith's son in exchange for Representative Smith's vote in favor of the Medicare bill. In the view of the investigative subcommittee, this conduct could support a finding that Majority Leader DeLay violated House rules."
Smith stated that DeLay said to him, in a conversation that lasted about eight seconds: "I will personally endorse your son. That's my last offer." DeLay's account was mostly consistent with that of Smith, the report said.
BTW did ya notice he tried to say "vociferously"?
LET US PRESS OUR ADVANTAGE!
Fear of Flying
by Russ Baker
"A new source has emerged with what she says is personal knowledge about why George W. Bush prematurely left his Texas National Guard unit in 1972--because nerves, fear and a possible drinking problem were affecting his ability to pilot his F-102A plane. If true, this information further confirms a growing body of evidence that Bush has not been candid about his departure from his unit. At various times the President and his spokespersons have offered shifting rationales, from the planned eventual mothballing of the F-102As, to his doctor's unavailability to give him a flight physical, to a professional opportunity in another state."
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mht...0041011&
s=baker
Poland: Getting Slammed Like a Screen Door Since 1917.
Cheap shot, I know.
On substance, he's still wrong of course, but it was nice to see a real debate in any case.
Whatever. It was great watching Bush get reamed in the ass by reality.
It's also nice to see you try to pull this stiff upper lip thing.
Have fun knowing falling asleep knowing a Republican hasn't won the last four presidential elections.
seen on freep:
"Not to worry. Pres. Bush was tired from visiting the hurricane victims and devastation of Fl. all day. And, this debate is just a sucker-punch anyway."
Yeah, you run with that one, guys. But exactly how was this a sucker punch???
actually, i say we leave TANG in the dust. focus on the momentum that has been created by looking at the here and now.
Business Week: Kerry Lands the First Punch
PS -- Kennedy = JFK #35, Kerry = JFK #44
WTF?
For an hour or two after the debate, the numbers were like 80% Kerry.
Now suddenly it's like 50%
Do I detect a bank of little freepers speed-mousing with one hand and jerking-of furiously with the other?
Pathetic.
Was there some talk on the stage that was captured by the mics at the end, when the wives came up? I didn't catch it. Then I saw the end of TDS with one eye and it seemed like he was playing it.
Was there anything there?
I hate to say it, but when PASTABAGEL sez:
I hate to say it, but those goofy rules produced probably the most substantive, issue oriented debate in recent memory.
... and Joe Scarborough drinks our Pinko Kool-Aid...
... me on Bizarro Planet!
(And I rather LIKE this planet!)
must read:
http://lennonreport.blogspot.com
debate wrap-up MUST READ!!!
Paging Doctor Freud!
Sorry, but I'm not a doctor, but I play one on this Intarweb thingee. But I agree, that sums up Bush's goal on the war. He honestly believes Saddam is Osama and Osama is Saddam. Wonder if Jenna and Barbara are his daugthers and his sisters, too.
Kerry's "Nuclear Proliferation" answer threw him. I believe this was the one in which he stammered "Umm..." for about five seconds into his rebuttal.
BTW, did anyone feel that they've seen that blinking, stone-faced look on Bush before? Like for 7 minutes in a schoolroom in Sarasota, Florida?
This post made me so happy, I referenced it in my blog.
Whoever said this first was totally right...
Kerry 1, Junior 0
BTW did ya notice he tried to say "vociferously"?
He tried to say a lot of things, and failed every time.
*He couldn't be any more stupid if someone cut his head off.
*Which being a pacifist, I personally would never even consider, Mr. FBI man.
"it's hard work!"
yeah, georgie. it is. who knew presidenting would be so much work? time to put someone in office who can do it and your lazy shiftless punk ass can go back to texas or wherever the hell you are from.
Thanks for the transcript of McGruder on Aaron Brown's show.
But for Brown to end it with an "equal opportunity" remark is pretty stupid. But maybe he was just trying to go with McGruder's theme there...
seattlebird
Are you daring to suggest this was a surprise debate? George was just visiting Coral Gables and bam! Kerry ambushes him with two podiums and an audience with an inquiring mind?
I hate to say it, but those goofy rules produced probably the most substantive
It was a gift from God himself hearing Bush repeat whatever Karl Rove scribbled on his 3" x 5" cards for 90 minutes, like a trained chimpanzee or one of those bears at a circus that rides around on a bike.
BTW did ya notice he tried to say "vociferously"?
Yep, that's a ten dollar word.
I am writing as many media outlets as possible to tell them to stop calling this a tie.
WHAT ARE YOU DOING??????
John Kerry was mean to George Bush. That makes me feel mad at John Kerry. Besides, this was a rope-a-dope anyways, just to lull John Kerry into the next two debates with a false sense of security. Just wait. You'll see. You'll all see.
God Bless.
These are the people we are up against. They're swing staters, too.
Poland, bitches!
Has anyone else noticed the Republican talking point that Saddam Hussein was a weapon of mass destruction? As in, we had to go in there because Hussein himself was a wmd.
Wow. Can't they even claim weapons of mass destruction-related programs anymore?
Just saw "Terror level elevated" on Fox's scroll during O'Reily's show.
nice job, miranda. i'm going to tape it on the replay. it's even better reading the script.
I just came from voting on all the polls and atrios needs to update his results because all the results I saw were Kerry 70 to 85%, Bush 15 to 30%. I hit cnn, cbs, etc.
Only msnbc had it close.
On the Ohio Knight-Ridder board, it was 93% Kerry.
One board had Kerry with 24,949 votes, to Bush's 9,119. nearly three to one.
What was wonderful about the debate was how Kerry dominated. It always seemed that he got the last word. Bush asked for more rebutal time several times - and thus gave Kerry the last word. Kerry would take notes (or maybe was making circles on the paper for all I know) making sure that one watched his pen rather then Bushes face. And everytime that Bush spoke we got sigh before he said a word. Even got some moments of Bush's famous word salad. While Kerry rarely missed a beat. It was delightful. A small battle in this war, now on to victory
Outstanding performance by Kerry.
Outrageous performance by cable media.
Frightening performance by public on CSPAN.
I don't know how many of you took time to listen to post debate call in on CSPAN. I found it an object lesson in how diminishing education threatens the foundation of our system of government, an informed electorate.
Critical thinking skills? D-
Literacy/communication skills? D
It gets worse. The best thing is they're visually literate. For that we can be grateful because the contrast between Kerry and Bush on looking presidential was striking.
Let us pray (as one Republican woman said in her comments).
justmy2
They can call it anyway they want. When your boy walks down the street with his nose bloodied, close up eye and teeth missing, you know he got his behind waxed the hard way. People know what their eyes tell them in the end.
I keep thinking Bush is in his hotel room saying over and over "I cuda been a contedah"
"its hard work ya now..."
geez what a whining little pussy.
Just saw "Terror level elevated" on Fox's scroll during O'Reily's show.
::shakes head in utter belief::
Bush wasn't beaten; he was destroyed. I haven't seen this happen since Buster Douglas knocked out Tyson. That fight destroyed Tyson, and Bush got the same handed to him tonight.
And how about Kerry? His strategy was 'rope a dope' all along! This wasn't even close; I'm still shocked to my very core. I assumed the deck was stacked against us because of that damned 32-page rulebook. Was I surprised.
We don't need to say a single thing to make the case for Kerry. All we have to do is let everyone watch this debate. It speaks for itself.
$50 says there are no more debates. Bush can't possibly go through this beatdown again.
Now here's the scary question: what will Bush pull in October? And what will they pull after they lose the election? Will they raze Falluja just to stick it to the incoming President? They're gonna pull some damned stunt. Fuck 'em.
I wrote to all the pundits:
I was so impressed with John Kerry's presence at last night's debate. He made a forceful case for a change in leadership on matters of foreign policy.
Bush has certainly misled the American people--right into a war we shouldn't be in, taking our attention away from the hunt for Osama Bin Laden. Kerry certainly made that clear last night.
Seeing Kerry standing there, calm and steady, I could tell that John Kerry will be a strong president, a man of integrity. He will win the trust of the nations round the world, and he will stand as a strong steady leader.
How different from George W. Bush who stood there looking squirmy, struggled to put two thoughts together, and seemed to drag his answers out to avoid saying too much.
Just saw "Terror level elevated" on Fox's scroll during O'Reily's show.
wow that was quick! i expected they'd wait utill monday or tuesday, Rove must think the debate was a disaster!
"terror Level elevated" Are they talking homeland security or Bush's current state of mind at the moment?
Relax guys, the terror alert's been elevated for months now. Just part of that "safer America" Bush was prattling on about earlier...
Here's a funny from the Lennon Report:
AND FINALLY, IN AN ADORABLE MOMENT OF CANDID BACK-SLAPPERY the two candidates complimented eachother on the other's daughters' involvement in the campaign. When Senator Kerry remarked that the Bush daughters gave him a good laugh once in a while, President Bush replied, oddly, "I try to keep them on a leash." Prompting Kerry to tastelessly cough "Abu Graib" under his breath.
Watch this asshole WORK:
White House political guru Karl Rove strongly disputed the instant polls showing most Americans preferring Kerry's Sept. 30 performance. "Remember four years ago, the same thing happened," Rove told reporters. "People said Gore won the debate. Well, it turned out Bush won the debate and the election. And the same thing is going to happen this time."
DO NOT LET IT HAPPEN.
Democrats must put a video together of the President rolling his eyes, smirking, and looking annoyed...
justmy2
Wait a minit! You mean Faux didn't abide by the rules set forth by Dear Leader? For shame!
Now, I wonder if someone's gonna total up the cutaways for each candidate, what sorts of looks caught the director's eye for each of them. Someone's bound to, probably sooner than later.
In tonight’s debate, America saw a strong and determined John Kerry looking like the next President. Kerry showed confidence and a steady command of the facts. President Bush offered hope, but hope is not a strategy, especially when dealing with nuclear proliferation in North Korea and Iran. Kerry showed America, and the World, that he is the man to lead us now.
None of the spinsters are remarking on Kerry's brilliant assertion about the importance of separating the war from the warrior when accused of not supporting the troops. Why don't people get that?
i just came here to post that rove quote.
unbelievable. If kerry got that creature out of his den to talk directly to reporters, then things must be worrisome to him.
Now it's important to remember that Bush is a puppet and the presidential election is as much Kerry running against Rove & Co. and big money supporters as it is against Bush. These operators will come up with something for the next debates, including the vice presidential debate, that will attempt to capitalize on Democratic overconfidence. Bush may be a lightweight and a fool but he has the best paid lowlifes that money can buy behind him.
NYTimes lead editorial for tomorrow:
Kerry serves Bush.
This bodes well for our side if this is how the NYT and presumably the WaPo are going to call it:
Meanwhile, Mr. Bush, whose body and facial language sometimes seemed downright petulant, insisted, again and again, that by criticizing the way the war is being run, Mr. Kerry was sending "mixed signals" that threatened the success of the effort.
This photo is crying out for a caption.
My entry: Jenna Bush and her sister try to figure out where the bar is, while John McCain looks for more walnuts to stuff in his cheeks.
They are trying to Gore Kerry. Drudge is already up with a story about how Kerry "lied" because he said the subways in New York City were shut down during the Republican convention. Drudge is already claiming some unnamed cable station in NYC disputes that. I also have already seen the same thing from freepers on usenet political sites. So already they are spreading it. ANY and I do mean ANY media source you see repeat this immediately e-mail them this info:
An article from August 31, 2004 seems to indicate some subway disruption in NYC during the convention:
Among the quotes:
"Those facing the biggest obstacles may be New Jersey Transit customers who take the Midtown Direct trains into Manhattan's Penn Station. Starting Moday, they'll be diverted through Hoboken, where they'll have the option of taking PATH, buses, or ferries. It'll add significant amounts of time to those commutes."
"At Penn Station, commuters will find only two entrances open, both on 7th Avenue. Some subway service will also be affected"
http://officer.com/article/artic...tion=1&
id=16551
Look, this type of thing should be easily rebuttable. SHOULD. However, we know how that goes and how lies were spread about Gore. Yeah, they eventually get around to the correction, but by then the media has spread it and half the people out there never HEAR the correction. Acting fast is the key.
DO NOT LET THEM SPREAD THIS!!! THE SUBWAY WERE CLOSED AROUND MADISON SQUARE GARDEN. Don't rely on that being the truth, with the lazy media we have we have to SHOW them the truth before they spread the lie.
GDoyle
My four year old nephew would have done better than chimpy tonight.
At least he has the "Cute" factor working for him.
And the NYT Editoral Page declares -" Kerry Delivers the Goods"
From today NYT Editorials
"The First Debate
Published: October 1, 2004
If Americans who tuned into last night's presidential debate were waiting for one of the candidates to catch the other in a fatal error, or leave him stammering, the event was obviously a draw. But if the question was whether Senator John Kerry would appear presidential, whether he could present his positions clearly and succinctly and keep President Bush on the defensive when it came to the critical issue of Iraq, Mr. Kerry delivered the goods. . . . "
Now it's important to remember that Bush is a puppet and the presidential election is as much Kerry running against Rove & Co. and big money supporters as it is against Bush. These operators will come up with something for the next debates, including the vice presidential debate, that will attempt to capitalize on Democratic overconfidence. Bush may be a lightweight and a fool but he has the best paid lowlifes that money can buy behind him.
I've been popping in on Tacitus, the only hard-RW blog I can stand to go near, and let me tell you: they are subdued. Nowhere near the usual level of conversation.
Only a few of Le Dauphin's cheerleaders are finding any thing to be pleased about - and you'll get a kick out of what they are fastening on
One: Global test - spinning it for the Black Helicopter crowd.
Two: Kerry saying he'd never contemplate using nuclear weapons. This one's a real giggle, with even the partisans admitting that Bush saying he WOULD contemplate using nuclear weapons might not be a real vote getter for him
Let's not count our chickens yet. Of course Kerry won the debate, but Kerry made some irrelevant errors!
Gore made those too, and thanks to our friends in the media, they denied him the victory on that account.
Falstaff: "It was a draw in the same way that Iraq is a draw." Damn. Nice sentence.
Atrios, this HaloScan setup sucks. You need to let readers interact with every post, a la Kos. Unless you just want to be a satellite that people go to when Kos is having server troubles. Just saying . . .
No stiff upper lip needed. Kerry won the debate. Winning the debates won't translate to the winning the election, and this could all be quickly forgotten by the VP debate on tuesday.
I'm curious to see the results of any polls over the next two days. My theory is that Bush's support isn't really fluid, so it will remain firm, but I think Kerry retrieved some lost Nader voters.
THEY CALL ME PASTABAGEL
Now it's important to remember that Bush is a puppet and the presidential election is as much Kerry running against Rove & Co. and big money supporters as it is against Bush. These operators will come up with something for the next debates, including the vice presidential debate, that will attempt to capitalize on Democratic overconfidence. Bush may be a lightweight and a fool but he has the best paid lowlifes that money can buy behind him.
Bush: "That was a hard debate. I said every thing that Karl told me to say but it wasn't enough stuff so I kept repeating myself. Can we bring out Osama yet and show him to everyone?"
Cheney: "I told you before. Only if Karl says that we need to and then you have to get permission from Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz first.
Bush: "Can I hit him once with a baseball bat?"
Cheney: "I still can't believe you're the predident."
Bush: ""Just one hit with a bat?"
Cheney: "You really are a sad little man."
Bush: "I used to own a baseball team ya know"
Cheney: " Get out of my office George"
This is quite funny. The technorati has misfiled my blog as a conservative one, and I have had twenty visits in the last hour from there...
hard work. those are two words that should never be associated with preznit vacationus augustus.
Drum:
POLAND....During the debate John Kerry suggested that the war coalition wasn't really much of a coalition: only the U.S., Britain, and Australia. "We can do better," he said.
Bush, obviously peeved, snapped back, "He forgot Poland." My initial reaction was that this line was going to make pretty good joke fodder on late night TV (insert your own one-liner here), but Julian Sanchez at Hit & Run actually has the best response. Here's what President Aleksander Kwasniewski of Poland thinks of the coalition today: "They deceived us about the weapons of mass destruction, that's true. We were taken for a ride."
Maybe Bush would be better off forgetting Poland too.
Ouch.
God damn, I feel good about Kerry. This is the first time in a while I've really been excited about him. Kerry really 'turned a corner' here.
I WAS FUCKING THERE AT PENN STATION WHEN BUSH SPOKE. THEY CLOSED EVERYTHING BUT THE SEVNETH AVENUE ENTRANCES. YOU COULDN'T WALK ACROSS MIDTOWN. I HAD TO CATCH AN AMTRAK. I'm posting some very choice "tips" to Drudge right now. Care to join me?
Pastabagel,
Nice spin.
Nobody here is gonna buy it. Chimpy just lost it all, as is obvious to anyone with half a brain.
Cya.
CBS News is reporting that Experts Rate Debate a draw.
Don't let them get away with this.
Even their own poll shows Kerry won.
I've written my letter...
In my mind's eye, Big John walked calmly over to that Bush guy, reached down into Bush's trousers, grabbed Bush's tiny dick, bent it around and stuck it up Bush's ass.
Bush didn't utter a word or put up a struggle.
Then, Big John wiped his hand on Bush's jacket, and went back to his podium like nothing happened.
All that blinking stuff was Bush REM-wishing that Big John would come on over and do it again...
.
EkCenTrik
I hope you are right...but as you can see..I don't have much faith in the SCLM
That's what Osaka fish concern is all about..."
Personally, I can't wait for the next debate to see how Bush does in the lightning round!
uh, maybe it wasn't such a good idea to use poland (from kevin drum):
"POLAND....During the debate John Kerry suggested that the war coalition wasn't really much of a coalition: only the U.S., Britain, and Australia. "We can do better," he said.
Bush, obviously peeved, snapped back, "He forgot Poland." My initial reaction was that this line was going to make pretty good joke fodder on late night TV (insert your own one-liner here), but Julian Sanchez at Hit & Run actually has the best response. Here's what President Aleksander Kwasniewski of Poland thinks of the coalition today: "They deceived us about the weapons of mass destruction, that's true. We were taken for a ride."
George W. = Nixon Light
Kerry really 'turned a corner' here.
So bad, it needed to be repeated.
CBS says the "experts" said the debate was a tie.
A tie.
Also, near the end of the article is this oldie but goodie...
""Going into tonight, President Bush won if he didn’t lose."
and...
"And if many Americans deem the debate a tie, there is a sense that Mr. Bush gains by not losing."
Geez. Also, they went from "experts" to "Americans".
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/
2...ain646711.shtml
How's this for an atrocity?
On aol, the poll asks who won, Bush or Kerry, then has an additional question: "Did the debate change how you feel about the candidates?", with one choice: "Yes, it made me want to vote for Bush". Thats it, folks.
I knew aol sucked, but Jeebus!!
PASTABAGEL
I respect your honesty.
But Bush also made an error when he corrected Kerry to say he forgot to mention Poland supplied forces when the invasion began. Kerry said there were three countries --Great Britain, Australia and the United States -- and Bush said, "actually he forgot Poland."
Poland later supplied troops and commanded a zone in Iraq. But, except for a few commandos, Polish troops were not part of the original ground invasion.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/
wp...004Sep30_2.html
seemed downright petulant
hey, they stole that from me, the petulant little president. well in fairness i guess it was kind of obvious.
Atrios, this HaloScan setup sucks. You need to let readers interact with every post, a la Kos.
no, no, no, i thought that at first, but this is better. it doesn't matter so much what people say. so they just say it. just say'n.
NYTimes lead editorial for tomorrow:
Kerry serves Bush.
This bodes well for our side if this is how the NYT and presumably the WaPo are going to call it:
Meanwhile, Mr. Bush, whose body and facial language sometimes seemed downright petulant, insisted, again and again, that by criticizing the way the war is being run, Mr. Kerry was sending "mixed signals" that threatened the success of the effort.
i can't believe anyone is calling it a draw. if it was a fight they would have stopped it after about 15 minutes.
I think a big thing left out, that has to do with the whole "framing" issue, is Bush's repeated use of the phrase "Wrong War, Wrong Place, Wrong Time".
I laughed my ass off each and every time he quoted that line. People aren't talking about it, but you'll see that silently, the issue of Iraq being the wrong war, has just been solidified by Bush himself.
Seriously, think about it.
Bush let the neocons play us for idiots and Kerry proposes to fix it by playing other nations for idiots.
I watched the debate at a Watch Party sponsored by our local community college. About half of the students who were Bush supporters slunk out mid way through the proceedings. Some of them were still carrying their Bush Chaney signs, but they were looking rather glum. It really warmed the cockleburs of my heart!
NYT....
The cameras demonstrated that Mr. Bush cannot hear criticism without frowning, blinking and squirming (he even sighed once). They showed that Mr. Kerry can control his anger and stay cool but that he cannot suppress his inner overeager A student, flashing a bleach-white smile and nodding hungrily at each question.
Mr. Kerry's confident, calm manner may have paid off. CBS was one of several news organizations that conducted instant focus group surveys during the debate. A few minutes after the candidates finished their closing statements, CBS News said 51 percent of the 200 uncommitted sample voters thought that Mr. Kerry had a clear plan for Iraq. Only 38 percent thought the president did.
Even Fox News analysts thought Mr. Kerry did well. Mort Kondracke of Roll Call, the Capitol Hill newspaper, said Mr. Kerry looked like a "commander in chief" and Ceci Connolly of The Washington Post said she thought the polls would tighten a bit after the debate.
http://www.therant.us/staff/marsala/
grab_your_keyboards_and_pajamas.htm
Vote early. Vote often. Even on the conservative blogs.
Same ole bush, stay on message. Even if it is the same four sentences you have been blathering for the last three years, and even when it bears no resemblance to truth. How can anyone with a brain support this pathetic excuse for humanaity. This man isn't fit to manage a maneuer pile let alone the USA.
Bush couldn't pass a urine test, much less a global test.
Everyone send quick letters to the media supporting Kerry!
Make it clear that if they spin the debate, the public will be PO'ed.
hardball@msnbc.com
foxfeedback@foxnews.com
nightline@abcnews.com
evening@cbsnews.com
Nightly@NBC.com
today@nbc.com
http://www.cnn.com/feedback/form...s/form1.html?
21
Ok, on the whole CBS "Experts say it's a draw" story, what did you expect from them? I guess I would suck at writing headlines- by my reading of their 5 'experts', 2 of them say Kerry won, two said they both did well, and one just said they cancelled each other out.
Although I'm happy to see all the undecideds on the TV clearly going with Kerry, I think it's a big fat media myth that undecideds mean much this time. If you still don't know, you're willfully ignorant. And BushCo has done little in my view to woo undecideds, aside from trying to scare them.
It's all about the base baby! And our man Kerry just sent us all Oscar-worthy gift baskets. And all the Bushies got was a flaming bag of poo!
Another one to vote in:
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004...ts/
results.html
NYT....
The cameras demonstrated that Mr. Bush cannot hear criticism without frowning, blinking and squirming (he even sighed once). They showed that Mr. Kerry can control his anger and stay cool but that he cannot suppress his inner overeager A student, flashing a bleach-white smile and nodding hungrily at each question.
Mr. Kerry's confident, calm manner may have paid off. CBS was one of several news organizations that conducted instant focus group surveys during the debate. A few minutes after the candidates finished their closing statements, CBS News said 51 percent of the 200 uncommitted sample voters thought that Mr. Kerry had a clear plan for Iraq. Only 38 percent thought the president did.
Even Fox News analysts thought Mr. Kerry did well. Mort Kondracke of Roll Call, the Capitol Hill newspaper, said Mr. Kerry looked like a "commander in chief" and Ceci Connolly of The Washington Post said she thought the polls would tighten a bit after the debate.
look, everybody knows its hard work, and nobody told me there would be a global test! I didnt know, but its hard work
President Whiny Bitch
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004.../press.pundits/
Vote in this CNN poll too!
Only MSNBC had it close...
MSNBC is the only one where you cant vote more than once...Perhaps once again we've put too much faith in the American people and most did see it as a tie? If that's the case then good Lord....
Here's to hoping Chief Angry Beaver blows his October surprise early, and that said surprise backfires on him Nov. 2.
Slate declares Kerry winner:
Kerry slammed this thing out of the ballpark, not just on points but also on punch lines, style, and demeanor.
Woo!
Drudge is saying that the Repubs are going to spin this as: Bush was emotionally drained from meeting with the hurricane victims.
Chew on this!
Mort Kondracke: “This is the President's turf, this is the place that the President is supposed to dominate, terror and the war in Iraq. I don't think he really dominated tonight. I think Kerry looked like a commander-in-chief.”
Kate O'Beirne, National Review Online’s the Corner: "I thought the President was repetitive and reactive."
Jonah Goldberg, National Review Online's the Corner: "The Bush campaign miscalculated on having the first night be foreign policy night."
Bob Schieffer: “The President was somewhat defensive in the beginning”
Mark Shields: "The President showed a few times obvious anger"
Bill Kristol, Weekly Standard: “I think Kerry did pretty well tonight, he was forceful and articulate.”
Bob Schieffer: “Kerry got off to a very good start.”
Joe Scarborough: “It was John Kerry’s best performance ever…As far as the debate goes, I don’t see how anybody could look at this debate and not score this a very clear win on points for John Kerry.” (MSNBC)
Andrea Mitchell: “This is the toughest we’ve ever seen John Kerry. He attacked the very core of the President’s popularity. He’s basically saying, who do you believe?” (MSNBC)
Tim Russert: “Tonight he seemed to find his voice for the Democratic view of the world.”
Fred Barnes on FNC: "Kerry did very well and we will have a Presidential race from here on out."
Fight another day tomorrow.
RapidFire.
This mealy-mouthed kowtowing by CBS and other media outlets that the debate was a "draw" merely illustrates that George W. Bush himself is irrelevant. He is abject mediocrity elevated to the highest office in the land by a servile media corps wracked with a pathology of errant equanimity: if Bush did not exist it would be necessary to create him. The networks lavish him with facile politeness and the truth is forgotten as something even worthy of discussion.
I think what helped make the debate was the fact that there was only 1 questioner. Those panels with multiple questioners are really bad, because then they are just trying to showcase themselves, who can ask the smartest question or trap the candidate into saying something stupid. We should thank Jim Lehrer. And if this format was Vernon Jordan's idea he's brilliant.
BUSH WAS WEARING AN EARPIECE
TWO WIRES SEEN FLESHING THRU TOP OF COAT WHEN SEEN FROM BEHIND
SAYS 'LET ME FINISH' TO HIMSELF
THIS WILL BREAK, LOOK AT THE PIX FROM BEHIND
UNASKED, UNANSWERED:
I just wanted Kerry to ask ONE question:
On 9/11, the US was attacked by Al Queda.
It's been more than THREE years since that day,
so Mr. President, where is Osama bin Laden now?
The United Sates was attacked on George Bush's watch.
And while it may not have been his fault exactly, he
certainly was resonsible for our saftey at the time.
Bush may have killed and detained lots of Arabs over
the past three years, but I don't see that he's gotten
much closer to bringing Osama bin Laden to justice.
I though Bush was going to be tough on terrorism.
The US army found Saddam in a spider hole mere weeks
after "combat" was declared over, but bin Laden has
eluded capture for more than three years. Where's
the "leadership" in that?
A public service announcement to any Bitches who may be reading Atrios this evening.
Attention, Bitches. You may hear the word "Bitch" being used to describe that "President" Bush guy, fairly frequently for the next two months or so. When My friend Hubris Sonic wrote "President Whiny Bitch" earlier, he wasn't refering to you fine bitches, rather to "president" whiny bitch. Please do not take offence. It is clear for exam
Bitches, we apologise if this upsets you bitches.
Sorry Bitches.
And, if there are any chimps, gimps, assholes or goddamned shit-eating motherfuckers reading Atrios anytime in the next 8 weeks, apologies to you fine folks too.
.
Anyone got an avi file of bush's closing remarks?
I swear he blinked seven hundred times - I'd like to make a flash counter of it.
email above.
a
UNASKED, UNANSWERED:
I just wanted Kerry to ask ONE question:
On 9/11, the US was attacked by Al Queda.
It's been more than THREE years since that day,
so Mr. President, where is Osama bin Laden now?
The United Sates was attacked on George Bush's watch.
And while it may not have been his fault exactly, he
certainly was resonsible for our saftey at the time.
Bush may have killed and detained lots of Arabs over
the past three years, but I don't see that he's gotten
much closer to bringing Osama bin Laden to justice.
I though Bush was going to be tough on terrorism.
The US army found Saddam in a spider hole mere weeks
after "combat" was declared over, but bin Laden has
eluded capture for more than three years. Where's
the "leadership" in that?
In response to the 'global test' reference that repubs are going to hammer Kerry on, easy:
With North Korea, Bush won't deal with the situation directly, he trusts China and Japan to negotiate with Kim Jong Il for us, leaving the safety of our country in the hands foreign powers and dictators.
I LOVE YOU ALL TONIGHT!!
What a great night. Today was my first day ever canvassing door to door.
I'm so proud of our candidate. And I'm proud of all the activists here who've donated, worked hard, emailed the press, and kept their chins up when so many were giving in to panic and despair.
We are going to win this!
Atrios, this HaloScan setup sucks. You need to let readers interact with every post, a la Kos.
Nah. Gets too Byzantine that way. You wanna interact that personally, there's email.
Not to say Hell-O-Scan don't suck, of course...
Like tonight, it doesn't seem to have any cookies left.
george w. bush:
a regular guy who has convictions.
like you or me!
I'm going to stick online the exchange between Aaron McGruder and Aaron Brown tonight. It was priceless. He smacked down the chimp.
Threads suck for free-wheeling stuff like this.
Flow is better, though for liveblogging, I liked IRC tonight.
Italicize quotes from earlier comments. That works just as well as threads, and is less prone to losing focus.
Another poll I haven't seen cited anywhere: http://www.iranian.com/Poll/
At the risk of boosting their hitcount, I feel obligated to point out that Bush still leads this poll quite handily: http://worldnetdaily.com/polls/i...?
VIEW_RESULTS=Y
If you feel like getting wierd right-wing span you may want to vote in that one too.
BIG JOHN SMASHED THE CHIMP!!!
CHIMP LOOKED WEAK, SMALL AND WAS TOTALLY ON THE DEFENSIVE!!!
TKO TO BIG JOHN!!!
GO, JOHNNY, GO!!!
Krugman:
The sheer scale of Mr. Bush's foreign policy failures insulates him from its political consequences: voters aren't ready to believe how badly the war in Iraq is going, let alone how badly America's moral position in the world has deteriorated.
But the rest of the world has already lost faith in us. In fact, let me make a prediction: if Mr. Bush gets a second term, we will soon have no democracies left among our allies - no, not even Tony Blair's Britain. Mr. Bush will be left with the support of regimes that don't worry about the legalities - regimes like Vladimir Putin's Russia.
Blair's heart was fine before he started sucking up to the Chimperor.
Kerry fought on Bush's turf, and made him look like a little Smurf.
Rhymes aside, let's try to predict the Republican response, based on past behavior:
Step 1: Insist Bush won (gets laughed out of school)
Step 2: Repeat GOP Kerry talking points (might still work)
Step 3: Latch onto one clause of Kerry's comments, loudly insist this is why Kerry will lead us all to be killed by AQ ("global test" distortion, here we come)
Step 4: Chaff furiously (look! homos!)
Step 5: Raise terror alert (check)
Step 6: Bin Laden captured
"george w. bush:
a regular guy who has convictions."
And got his monkey ass KICKED tonight!
Big JOHN OWNED the CHIMP!!!
TKO to Big John!!
samantha: links to the pictures?
If this had been a boxing match it would've been Kerry by a knockout in the third round. Sweet. We'll take it but a fish gutting would've been better.
"Kerry fought on Bush's turf, and made him look like a little Smurf."
LOL!
Kerry SMURFED Bush's weak little blue ass!
TKO to BIG JOHN!!!!
I'm going to stick online the exchange between Aaron McGruder and Aaron Brown tonight. It was priceless. He smacked down the chimp.
Found this on Salon.com:
"Boondocks" cartoonist Aaron McGruder. "Bush got his ass whupped," McGruder told CNN's Aaron Brown.
But the outspoken McGruder, who was relegated to "The Contrarian" segment of Brown's news show, was not finished. "The elephant in the room" that no TV pontificators will dare acknowledge, he observed, is that Bush "is incredibly dumb...he can't articulate, he can't complete a full sentence, and he's our president."
Brown, being a member in good standing of the pontificator class, rushed to challenge McGruder, asserting that Bush was a man of strong beliefs, blah, blah, blah. But McGruder was unimpressed. Convictions don't mean a thing if you’re just plain stupid, he pointed out.
"Mort Kondracke: “This is the President's turf, this is the place that the President is supposed to dominate, terror and the war in Iraq. I don't think he really dominated tonight. I think Kerry looked like a commander-in-chief.”"
LOL! And that's Mr. Fox News Neo-Con talking there! LOL!
BIG JOHN KICKED ASS AND TOOK NAMES ALL NIGHT!!!
Bush was weak and totally on the defensive. He even SMIRKED, the punk!
TKO to BIG JOHN!!!!
aha, now the story is that kerry might have done well, but he needed to hit a home run and he didn't get it.
Kerry actually had very little to accomplish here. People *want* to choose him over Bush, they're crying for a reason to. All Kerry had to do was be authoritative and articulate, two things he already had in the bank.
Bush just made it easy for him.
Convictions don't mean a thing if you’re just plain stupid, he pointed out. = funny
""Bush got his ass whupped," McGruder told CNN's Aaron Brown."
LOL! He sure ass he did. Got his ass whupped like a red-headed step-child!
TKO to BIG JOHN!!!
"I watched the debate at a Watch Party sponsored by our local community college. About half of the students who were Bush supporters slunk out mid way through the proceedings."
LOL! I don't blame 'em! Kerry dragged Bush's punk ass out behind the woodshed and beat him senseless!
TKO to BIG JOHN!
bush:
"after we prayed and teared up some...."
what the fuck?
""Bush got his ass whupped," McGruder told CNN's Aaron Brown."
Actually, he slipped up a bit, saying something like 'Kerry... he got his ass whupped', but you knew what he meant.
Like I said, I'll get it up online somehow tomorrow.
I sent this to CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS and NBC:
-----
I just wanted to point something out about the Bush-Kerry debate Thursday night which I think is worth noting: Bush appeared to have been caught off-guard several times, almost stunned by some of the questions. Also, his body language made him appear as if he was overwhelmed -- it looked like he couldn't deal with the pressure of a debate.
I know the White House and the Republican Party can pressure news outlets if they don't like the reporting, but please don't spin this as if Bush won. The vast majority of your viewers know better, and deserve better -- both from their news media and from their leaders.
In post-9/11 America, we can't afford a President who projects an image of weakness. Thursday night, in front of millions of people, John Kerry was confident and focused - and George W. Bush was weak.
------
Don't know how effective it is, but I like the idea of driving home the "Bush is weak" thing.
"and teared up some...."
Well, if I'd gotten my ass kicked on national TV like Bush just did, I'd be tearin' up too. LOL!
TKO to BIG JOHN!
Why hast thou forsaken me Lord?
"and teared up some...."
Sure, like when Big John teared that Bush guy a new ass.
.
"In post-9/11 America, we can't afford a President who projects an image of weakness."
Amen, man. And that's why we're gonna elect BIG JOHN! Bush was so WEAK tonight and unsure of himself. That punk even SMIRKED! John, on the other hand, was strong and was TOTALLY IN CONTROL!!!! He totally ate Bush's lunch!!!!
TKO to BIG JOHN!!!!
WTF are you talkin' about george?
I never "sakened" you.
STFU.
Kerry really knocked it out of the park tonight. Very appealing to security moms...
BTW: When Bush said " Let me finish" who was he talking to?
Looking around on news.google.com, it looks like the current wave of spin is "if you were undecided before, you're still undecided".
I call B.S. I couldn't even bear to listen to Bush's responses to Kerry. While his prepared closing remarks were at least listenable, he came across as terribly out-classed next to Kerry. Kerry made Bush look like some random guy from Texas. Kerry looked like he will when he's President. When I used to debate, there were judges and there'd be a winner and a loser. Kerry won, Bush lost, and no matter how its spun that's what millions of people saw, and will see again in the next two debates.
It was actually kind of sad, reading on CNN the "comments" they've posted from readers. All the Bush supporters could do was say "Flip-flop!", while the Kerry supporters were articulate and said Kerry looked Presidential. I guess once you've programmed the Borg, it's hard to reprogram it, eh Rove?
"Anyone who declares a winner in this debate is a predictable partisan. They both did beautiful."
Larry Sabato, director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia
BULLSHIT, LARRY! FUCK YOU! GET A JOB!
"BTW: When Bush said "Let me finish" who was he talking to?"
Well, I'd assume it was the moderator, Jim Lerher. But it don't matter none. Because Bush IS finished...for good!
BIG JOHN totally KICKED his monkey ass tonight!
Right wingers are obviously crashing this poll:
http://www.vote.com
It needs some balance
Google news already picked up this ridiculous article:
http://hundredpercenter.blogspot...won-
debate.html
BTW: When Bush said " Let me finish" who was he talking to?
"President" Bush hears voices in his head, apparently. He says, "God" told him to kill all those Iraqi civilians. Which is a comfort. You know, that God wanted them to burn and squirm and die. Makes it all seem a lot less... awful...
Seriously though, there's reports that he was wearing a wire...
"BULLSHIT, LARRY! FUCK YOU! GET A JOB!"
In THIS economy?
Sh'yeah, right!!!
JOHN KERRY KICKED ASS TONIGHT!!!!
Right wingers are obviously crashing this poll:
http://www.vote.com
It needs some balance
Google news already picked up this ridiculous article:
http://hundredpercenter.blogspot...won-
debate.html
here's a question for all you moms out there:
aren't all moms "security moms" or is it just the psychotic ones?
Jon Stewart's big scoop
Leave it to Jon Stewart of "The Daily Show" to get the big scoop on debate night. What was John Kerry intently scribbling on his note pad while President Bush was speaking? The enterprising Stewart got his hands on the pad after the debate and revealed Kerry’s words to "The Daily Show" audience: "I'm so crushing him."
http://www.salon.com/politics/wa...room/
index.html
http://www.youforgotpoland.com/
that supposedly "non-partisan" poll, vote.com, is run by Dick Morris - you know, the toe-sucking consultant?
"The enterprising Stewart got his hands on the pad after the debate and revealed Kerry’s words to "The Daily Show" audience: "I'm so crushing him.""
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!
ROTFLMAO!!!!
So true, baby. So true!
KERRY CRUSHED THAT CHIMP!!!
aha, now the story is that kerry might have done well, but he needed to hit a home run and he didn't get it.
Kerry actually had very little to accomplish here. People *want* to choose him over Bush, they're crying for a reason to. All Kerry had to do was be authoritative and articulate, two things he already had in the bank.
Bush just made it easy for him.
"Kerry made Bush look like some random guy from Texas."
Isn't that what he is? Well, besides the fact he has a fake ranch?
GDoyle
drudge is a punk.
saw somebody post that "SUBWAY WASNT CLOSED" lie earlier, should have no it was talking point.
but google gives this, not much more...
http://www.terroranalysis.com/st...tory/
75020.html
UNITED STATES - Tight security to cause disruption
The Republican party convention will take place between 30 August and 2 September in New York City. Security surrounding the event is expected to be extremely tight because of the authorities’ concerns regarding potential plans by Islamic extremists to carry out terrorist attacks in the country. Security concerns are compounded by a large number of protests that are scheduled to take place before and during the convention. Personnel should expect stringent security measures during the convention in central areas of New York City and particularly around the conference venue, the Madison Square Garden in Manhattan. Large-scale deployments of security forces are expected, and numerous roads and underground (metro) stations will be closed for the convention's duration, which is likely to cause severe traffic disruption. Personnel should carry identification documents at all times and to monitor local sources for further details of road closures and disruption to travel.
Okay, fellas. Here's the PROOF! PROOF THAT KERRY MAN-HANDLED THE CHIMP!!! THE EXCUSES ARE ROLLING IN:
"Bush inner circle suggests Bush visit with Hurricane victims earlier in day was emotionally draining, contributed to "tired" appearance in debate..."
Are the debate rules the same for the domestic policy debate? If so, that is good news for Kerry. This format worked well for Kerry (made him focus and keep his answer short and to the point) - Bush simply can't speak for 90 seconds and make sense the whole way through. He either repeats or falls down Rabbit Holes.
If the rules are the same for the domestic policy debate, look for Rove to coach a much different approach for Bush.
I would have been happy with a tie in this debate. Kerry exceeded my expectations by a country mile.
And what about Lehrer? Great job. The one moderator format is the way to go.
Bush started talking about treaties and summits, and defending the fact that he's made tough decisions in that respect. He pulled out one particular summit, where he took the hard choice of not joining the International Criminal Court, because he "did want Americans to be prosecuted." His reasoning for it was to "protect Americans." Then he said that Kerry supported joining the International Criminal Court.
Why, what's wrong with the ICC? There you have been not willing to hold America accountable for anything, even when they grossly abuse and break the law, like as in torturing prisoners. Yet, he feels it's not hypocritical to say that America can hold and prosecute its own international criminals at Guantanamo. Is Bush trying to hint at the idea that America is better than the rest of the world, that we should be held to a higher standard?
That's the kind of arrogance that turns off our allies and creates animosity towards us. I don't feel that creating more reasons to dislike America makes us any safer. In fact, I think it does the exact opposite.
that supposedly "non-partisan" poll, vote.com, is run by Dick Morris - you know, the toe-sucking consultant?
Which means that the hundredpercenter.com "news" article is a total circle jerk.
My letter to CBS:
I find it fascinating that CBS managed to dig up so many "experts" who think that the first presidential debate was a "draw." Everyone I've spoken to--which includes undecided voters--saw President Bush as vague, petulant, halting, confused, and unpresidential. Kerry, by contrast, was clear, calm, and confident.
Perhaps you're still stinging from your problems with Dan Rather's memos, but that's no reason to present Bush's near-disintegration onstage as equivalent to Kerry's measured and dignified performance. Contrary to what your "expert" Larry Sabato says, it's not partisan to take note of this simple fact: Kerry showed strength and character where Bush showed weakness and confusion. Bush stumbled, he stumbled badly, and it will cost him dearly; even partisans like Joe Scarborough and William Kristol are admitting this.
I'm disappointed that you'd try to spin it any other way, but I'm also confident that it will have little effect on the election's outcome. People are increasingly willing to believe their eyes and ears, instead of the obfuscations of Bush's shoeshine brigade.
Kerry looked so presidential while Bush looked so petulant.
Jon Stewart's big scoop
Leave it to Jon Stewart of "The Daily Show" to get the big scoop on debate night. What was John Kerry intently scribbling on his note pad while President Bush was speaking? The enterprising Stewart got his hands on the pad after the debate and revealed Kerry’s words to "The Daily Show" audience: "I'm so crushing him."
http://www.salon.com/politics/wa...room/
index.html
The Chimp talked about 'muxed missages'.
No-one's registered muxedmissages.com
--reserve it now and pass it on to the DNC. Please!
George W. Bush a regular guy...
But U.s. needs Premium.
"I find it fascinating that CBS managed to dig up so many "experts" who think that the first presidential debate was a "draw." Everyone I've spoken to--which includes undecided voters--saw President Bush as vague, petulant, halting, confused, and unpresidential. Kerry, by contrast, was clear, calm, and confident."
Great letter, Phil! CBS got its nuts cut off, but it's good to have guys like you reminding them what it is to be TOUGH!!! GREAT JOB!!!
"Bush trying to hint at the idea that America is better than the rest of the world"
it's not a hint, it's his foreign policy
Google news already picked up this ridiculous article:
I'm surprised that Google News isn't taking feeds from Stormfront and the KKK. It's that wingnut-heavy.
"The Chimp talked about 'muxed missages'."
LOL!!!! Yeah, that's RIGHT: "Mexed Missages." LOL!!! What a stupid little chimp. Oh well, if I got my ass kicked on national TV the way HE did, I'd be pretty tounge-tied too! LOL!
Drudge is saying that the Repubs are going to spin this as: Bush was emotionally drained from meeting with the hurricane victims.
Was he sharing his love with them, too?
LOL!!!! Yeah, that's RIGHT: "Mexed Missages." LOL!!! What a stupid little chimp. Oh well, if I got my ass kicked on national TV the way HE did, I'd be pretty tounge-tied too! LOL!
Yeah, I got it wrong: 'Mexed Missages.' Tex-Mexed Missages.
mexedmissages.com is available as well.
Register it, someone! Pass it on to the DNC!
"Drudge is saying that the Repubs are going to spin this as: Bush was emotionally drained from meeting with the hurricane victims."
Ain't gonna fly. Just like that stupid "Kerry has an orange face" bullshit. Bush was weak! And making excuses for him just makes him look WEAKER!!!
KERRY OWNED HIS NO GOOD ASS!!!!
"Tex-Mexed Missages"
LOL! ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!
Look at this picture of McCain and the Bush sister in their seats tonight. I love it.
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg...ult-
384x297.jpg
"Look at this picture of McCain and the Bush sister in their seats tonight. I love it."
ROTFLMFAO!!!! "Oh, the HUMANITY!!!"
KERRY LIT INTO BUSH LIKE THE MOTHERSUCKIN' HIENDENBERG!!!!
Justin Raimondo over at libertarian antiwar.com:
Kerry Cleans the President's Clock
including this:
"The president's father said that we'd be occupiers, that we would need hundreds of thousands of soldiers in Iraq indefinitely to keep the peace, and that we'd wind up hated – and that's exactly what's come to pass.
In short, Kerry was scolding the Frat Boy who had just gone on a wild spree, indulging in a prank that had gone a little too far, in effect saying: You should've listened to your father!
Now that was very close to a knock-out punch!"
I'm afraid he's right, though, Iraq is far from over. And if its still effed after four years of Kerry, where does that leave us.
Great letter, Phil! CBS got its nuts cut off, but it's good to have guys like you reminding them what it is to be TOUGH!!! GREAT JOB!!!
SPIN BUSTER
Thanks, SB! By the way, if there's anyone reading this who's not volunteering at this late date, now's the time...go to johnkerry.com and sign up already. You can do as much or as little as you like, and there are lots of easy things that ANYONE can do, like letter-writing campaigns. The volunteer portion of Kerry's site is excellent, there's lots going on all over the country, and I guarantee it'll cheer you up to get involved!
Night, all!
Who knew Karl Rove was such a comedian?
Karl Rove must have known things didn't go well when the New York Post asked him whether this was the worst debate of President Bush's life. No, Rove insisted. This was one of the president's best debates, and one of John Kerry's worst. "Really?" asked the reporter, Vince Morris. "You can say that with a straight face?"
Bwahahahahahahaha!!!
http://slate.msn.com/id/2107516/
I'm afraid he's right, though, Iraq is far from over. And if its still effed after four years of Kerry, where does that leave us.
flippety flop
Gee, I don't know. Maybe we better not elect Kerry and find out...change can be awfully scary!
On second thought...get bent. A president who's not fighting an all-out War on Reality can't help but be an improvement. Abajo con el chimpo desastroso!
"Abajo con el chimpo desastroso!"
SI, SI, SI!!!!
(that's all the Spanish I know)
Caption for picture" Oh shit the old man heard something about us Senator Johnny" Bush-Cheney, to paraphrase one of "Casablanca"'s classic lines "...at least we'll always have Crawford to remember Play it Condi
""Really?" asked the reporter, Vince Morris. "You can say that with a straight face?""
I guess it's easy to have a "straight face" when it's your ASS you're lying out of.
LOL!!!!
KARL'S CRYING HIMSELF TO SLEEP TONIGHT, GUYS!!!!
I can just hear rove screaming at bush now! If bush shows up tomorrow with a black eye or a scraped chin, we'll know for certain it wasn't from a fall off his tricycle or another unfortunate incident while trying to eat a pretzel ...
Here's some praise for CBS's quote-whore Larry Sabato from... his website! From his bio page, According to the Wall Street Journal, Dr. Sabato is "probably the most quoted college professor in the land," while the Washington Post called him "the Mark McGwire of political analysts" and he is dubbed by Fox News Channel as "America's favorite political scientist."
But wait, there's more! Hmm, what do 4/5 of these people have in common?
Praise for the Crystal Ball
Fred Barnes, Beltway Boys (Fox News Channel) - "[Larry Sabato's] political website called the Crystal Ball is a must-stop site on the web for all the latest political news and predictions."
Carl Cameron, Fox News - "Indispensable! Like the pen and pad or lap top, Larry Sabato's Crystal Ball is now essential equipment for the traveling political reporter. Whether it's latest developments or historical perspective...nobody "gets it" better."
Ed Chen, Los Angeles Times - "Sabato's Crystal Ball was an indispensable tool and a delight as well. It added joy and fun to the task of tracking political developments around the country."
Brit Hume, Special Report with Brit Hume (Fox News Channel) - "How can a political science professor create a website with election analysis and have people take it seriously as a source of political knowledge? The answer: When the professor is Larry Sabato of the University of Virginia, whose Crystal Ball predictions page at the University Center for Politics website has become a must-read for political junkies."
Will Vehrs, Punditwatch (punditwatch.blogspot.com) - "Larry Sabato's Crystal Ball was the gold standard for political junkies in 2002. If you wanted to predict the election results on more than just gut feelings, you were checking the Crystal Ball every week."
Talking points:
* America saw John Kerry as our next President tonight.
* Kerry showed strength, conviction, and a steady command of the facts.
* Kerry left no doubt he can lead the fight to hunt and kill the terrorists.
* Kerry offered hope for a fresh start in Iraq so we can finish the job. Kerry has specific plans: Bush had shallow promises.
Revised Talking points:
* America saw John Kerry as our next Commander in Cheif tonight.
* Kerry showed conviction, and a strong command of the facts.
* Kerry left no doubt he can lead the fight to hunt and kill the terrorists.
* Kerry offered hope for a fresh start in Iraq so we can finish the job.
Kerry has a workable plan, with specific steps:
Bush has only shallow promises.
Keep up your energy, we rely on it to keep up the good fight.
John Kerry needed to knock it out of the park, but all he did was hit the upper decks.
Bush won, cause he punted, er, I mean, bunted, and almost got on base safely. So there.
""...mexed missages."
The ultimate in ambiguous nondisclosure.
'Und zo, Preznit Pig Latin, and vat do you see in dhis inkblot, ya?'
--
"John Kerry needed to knock it out of the park, but all he did was hit the upper decks." --Anonymous
No, that's incorrect. Kerry is going to win by landslide, and what he needed to do was to lower the partisanship, so the tidal flow of Kerry voting Rs can join the Democratic party without having salt rubbed in their wounds.
It's the Lincoln strategy, balm on the nation's wounds. Took me awhile to grasp that; based on the radio I heard (snippets), it sounded like a rout. But they timed it wrong; they should have put it out in drive time. But most people saw it on tv, and when they looked at Kerry, they saw Eisenhower. Not the erratic and corrupt little dictator with his lies.
Bush has the option of losing with good grace. Kerry will let him retire from the field, for the good of the country (though without indemnification or pardon, please).
--
TALKING POINT: BUSH WAS WEAK!
Bush handed us a huge opening tonight.
It was great that Kerry finally came out so strong, but much more important that Bush wilted so meekly.
Bush was weak! Bush was weak! Bush was weak! Bush was weak! Bush was weak! Bush was weak!
Weak in style, weak on substance.
The Leader Of The Free World sputtered through most of the debate, grew flustered, appeared confused, couldn't seem to remember the question, lost his train of thought . . .
Kerry called him on his colossal failures and all he could manage was to point out Poland was behind us in Iraq.
And could he have been a bigger weanie the way he pouted and pursed his lips every time Kerry pounded him into the pavement?
It's time we act like the Republicans and grab hold of a theme and run with it.
Time to undermine George with exactly the message which will damage him most, and will resonate because it was so real.
George Bush was weak!
Keep that meme running.
Our president was weak! Our president was weak!
He has staked his entire campaign on an image of strength. If we seize now on what every American saw with their own eyes, and can hammer that message home, the pillar of his support crumbles.
George Bush was weak.
Our enemies took comfort tonight. They watched a weak president.
We are saddled with a weak leader.
No wonder we're in Iraq all by our lonesome. Can you picture George Bush negotiating with world leaders? We never get to see those private exchanges, we've been guessing for four years about how he acts one on one with a tough international adversary. Now we have a window into just how weak the man is. Putty in Dominique De Villepin's hands.
Can you imagine a more ghastly image to a conservative?--Getting our butts whipped in negotiations with FRANCE!
Our president is weak.
Wingnut point: the "global test" comment. Make sure to start responding to this if you see it out there. Here's the full text:
KERRY: The president always has the right, and always has had the right, for preemptive strike. That was a great doctrine throughout the Cold War. And it was always one of the things we argued about with respect to arms control.
No president, though all of American history, has ever ceded, and nor would I, the right to preempt in any way necessary to protect the United States of America.
But if and when you do it, Jim, you have to do it in a way that passes the test, that passes the global test where your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing and you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons.
Watching it, you can see Kerry's looking for a word. My guess is he was looking for 'universal'--ie, acknowleged by all (or maybe he wants approval from Mars! Mars, bitches). But whatever, what he said after shows what he meant, which is
your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing and you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons.
I've done a debate running diary if anyone is interested.
http://www.primordium.org/index.php?p=24
I think Kerry did make one big mistake:
While I understand and respect Kerry's desire not to lower himself to Bush/Chenney/Rove's level, I think the fact that he didn't counter the "flip-flop" jabs from Bush with DIRECT counterattacks was a mistake. Rather than simply stating his view clearly, he should have also pointed out how the President has flip-flopped on key issues, perhaps even offering a couple examples, such as when Bush said that the war on Terror was unwinnable and then reversed his position the very next day.
Mr.Kerry,
You did pretty well tonight,
but you must streamline your message even further.
make it simpler, stronger.
everybody can see you know what you're talking about.
but you gotta start hitting them over the head with it.
just pick three things you really believe in and wow them with it.
oh, and you do pretty well off the cuff, too.
One more thing:
You, Mr.Kerry, and Mr.Edwards should campaign together, as a team,
every day, from the end of the debates to Nov 2nd.
The teamwork between the two of you becomes a metaphor for the coalitons you wish to build.
It makes you look stronger.
Heh, Newsday has Kerry over Bush 83% to 17%. However, Dallas paper has headline ''Bush wins by not losing''. What are they on?
how much you wanna bet that after Bush gets his ass handed to him again in the 3rd debate, he develops a sudden case of laryngitis and can't make the 3rd debate in Arizona???
uh, I meant, 'gets his ass handed to him again in the 2nd debate'...
Watched the debate at Genoa Park in downtown Columbus Ohio tonight at an Edwards rally. Massive projection screen and huge tower speakers echoing off buildings across the river... I could hear every stutter, stammer and almost-stutter out of Bush's mouth and see the confused monkey faces quite clearly. It would be terrifying to think this man in the Oval Office after this performance if I wasn't fairly certain now that he's on his way out.
John Kerry, pack your bags.
You're going to the White House.
John Kerry, pack your bags.
You're going to the White House.
Yep, I said it twice.
I mean it.
Easy guys,
McCauliffe sent out a note beforehand pleading with supporters to bend the polls.
So no one's gonna believe them. I;ve checked and the backlash to the note is fierce and has some substance behind it too. Thanks Terry; return to square one on that front.
Now back to work.
It's over. Kerry wins by landslide.
He didn't need to address the flip-flop nonsense. He distanced himself from that attack, and explained circles around Bush, who looked petulant and shallow.
As for 'Bush weak,' no, the better line is that 'Bush mistakes stubborness and ruthlessness for strength.'
--
I cannot recall Bush coming out with ANY "this is what you have to do" lists. I mean, no plans, no checklist of things that have to happen with different problems.
Kerry did that, and he could rattle them off. Did it many times.
I may be wrong about the next point, I am not quite sure yet...but hear me out and see if anyone comments on my take on this:
Bush tried (lamely I think) to ridicule Kerry's valid point that OBL's job was made easier (to recruit and turn more people againt the USA) by Iraq. Bush replied "we don't do things in order to please or not please OBL" (paraphrased).
Later on, he tried to diss Kerry's plan to have talks with N. Korea because "That's just what Kim Il wants". Is that a Flip or a Flop I am hearing?
Another thing. I WISH with all my heart someone would ask Bush what the hell he means by "since they hate our freedoms a democracy would defeat the terrorists"...I mean, does he mean if Iraq beats all the predictions and odds against it now, and actually DOES become a democracy...all the terrorists are going to pack up their weapons, go home to their wives and give up being terrorists?
Isn't that pretty much what he is hinting at now?
Ok, sure - Bush looked a little bit distracted at times. But hey, not bad for a guy with a receiver stuffed in his ear and a ventriloquist's hand stuffed up his ass. Need I even mention how well he compensates for the brain damage brought on by years of alcohol and cocaine abuse?
Another poll- grade both participants
This is the link
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004.../press.pundits/
from this morning's WaPo:
"Bush confidante Karen Hughes said: "On his face, you could see his irritation at the senator's misrepresentations. . . . He was answering the senator with his face.""
too bad his mouth didn't have any answers....
Everyone knew Gore had kicked Smirks smirking ass, but within days the whores had twisted the flat earth upside down and Gore was the vilan.
Watch this closely; you are about to see the spin of the century....
How different from George W. Bush who stood there looking squirmy, struggled to put two thoughts together, and seemed to drag his answers out to avoid saying too much.
Speechless
I am guessing he was trying to run out the clock...I bet they were trying to also play up his weaknesses into as strong a suit as possible...Bush can't speak, so he played out the clock, kept it simple, and they probably hoped it made him seem "genuine" and like som Gary Cooper-action-not-words kinda guy...they hoped it would play even more to shade Kerry as a blowhard, or someone who talked too much...
It didn't work.
SABATOW IS A RED STATE REPUBLICAN WHORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here's a new Kerry slogan: George has lost his way but he's afraid to stop and ask for directions! This will remind every woman in America of the time their pig-headed husband/father/brother refused to pull into a gas station and find out which way to go.
If anyone is interested in Gallup's breakdown of the debate poll (57% Kerry, 37% Bush), it's now up on http://www.gallup.com (this may be the permanlink, but I'm not sure if it'll be available only to paid subscribers or not after today).
Urk, I meant 53% Kerry, 37% Bush.
Bush rebuttal on the news about 100s of thousands of hours of untranslated tapes at the FBI this week:
I work with Director Mueller of the FBI; comes in my office when I‘m in Washington every morning, talking about how to protect us.
Ummm... like August 2001...
Baghdad Bush... being President is hard work. We need someone who will treat this as a full-time job and you're being sent back to Crawford. And maybe you can have that Jiang Zemin guy over again, cuz that buddy, buddy Chinese leader that's handling North Korea for ya... well he's out of a job too.
Yes!! I wonder if Bushie Boy got any sleep last night? Wait a minute! Of course he did! I'll bet Karl Rove and Karen Hughes didn't, though!
Man, that was so sweet. I just keep imagining Poppy kicking James Baker's tiger-tattooed butt all the way back to Texas. Thanks to those brilliant Baker & Botts negotiating skills, Georgie has to go through two more of these ass-whuppins and all he got in excange were some blinking lights. Hey, Jim Baker! Who's your daddy? Vernon Jordan is your daddy!
Now that we've had our fun, though, we still have to work to GOTV and, probably even more so than before, we have to work to stop the dirty tricks. So No Retreat, Baby, No Surrender.
Did the leash remark offend other young women?
It offended this old woman. And Kerry's retort was beautiful. Kerry did not miss even one chance to hand George his butt.
McCauliffe sent out a note beforehand pleading with supporters to bend the polls.
This might be worth a nano-second of consideration if... most of the Atrios threads haven't had the link to the online polls list point at freeperville.
So Baghdad Bush's supporters were just as ready to bend the online polls as the Eschatonians. It may not reflect popular opinion, but it does reflect whose voters are more energised to win the Presidency.
So Baghdad Bush, after fluffing your followers with rove-coloured glasses and trying to energise them at hand-selected "audiences with the President"... you've fallen on your face again.
Where are the trolls?
Bush went down in flames last night. Saweeeeeeet. We all needed that. Kerry played Bush out like the little booger he is letting him speak the most. Did anyone catch that? Kerry was short and to the point and immediately let it go back to Bush so he could babble. Sawweeeeeeeet.
Anyone else suck in their breath when Bush responded to Lehrer's question about further pre-emptive war with "I would hope it would not be necessary?"(or ambiguous words to that effect) Subtext: Syria next. Spin that. Hard.
< href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1317491,00.html">Instant-response polls by three major television networks all showed that a large majority of their viewers thought the challenger had won the 90-minute verbal contest at the University of Miami - the first of three debates in the last month of the campaign.
From The Guardian. Also goes on to add;
'Perhaps even more seriously for President Bush, the networks ignored broadcasting guidelines agreed beforehand and showed both candidates at the same time. On several occasions, Mr Bush could be seen sour-faced and nervous in reaction to some of Mr Kerry's remarks. Similar "cut-away" shots of Al Gore in the first presidential debate four years ago sapped his campaign and helped put Mr Bush into office'
Don't forget to reward good behaviour folks... when contacting the media, make sure to remind them to do the same for the next 2 debates too.
Incidentally, interesting to note just which of our "regulars" here haven't a word to say today, no? You'd think genuine liberals would be joining in the dance for joy here, wouldn't you? But alas, where are our resident Chicken Littles, and "Kerry Should Do's"? It's almost as if their liberalism can't stand to see liberalism triumph...
Where are the trolls?
Obsolete
They're cowardly scum. They only appear when they think they've got the upper hand and they wont show up and stick it out when things are tough on their side.
So let's see. We need China, because? And we can shit on france and germany because? One has a crappy human rights record and the other two are pretty similar to us? Bush needs to be thrashed on this point.
Course, none of this is going to matter much once Al Queda gets their nuclear subs into position.
Being Preznit is hard work! It's hard work! Hard work! And I'm not used to hard work! I'm used to getting by my entire life on my family name! Don't those insurgents in Iraq know I'm a Bush? Doesn't al-Qaeda know I am a Bush?
"Looking around on news.google.com, it looks like the current wave of spin is "if you were undecided before, you're still undecided".
"
While we need to totally pour it on these punks, it is sooooo obvious that they are swinging in the dark with their eyes closed. The fight is well on its way to being over for the bushites--doesn't matter what whiny crap the propagandists spew, the People know what they know.
Someone needs to tell the media cowards that they don't need to fear the neocon bullies anymore--there's a new sheriff in town.
On second thought, perhaps the media cowards see themselves more as the townsfolk in High Plains Drifter, and are more afraid of retaliation from The Man With No Name than the bullies that have been riding them hard the past four years.
Hmmmmmmmm....
Oh well, excellent, excellent start. Now we need to finish this with authority and total confidence. Bush needs to be not only defeated, his entire cadre needs to be discredited for another generation or two (until Muricans get complacent and forgetful again, anyhoo).
Bush needs to remove his Rove-tinted glasses, or Kerry will do it for him. fantastic stuff.
Did Rove really declare that this was W's "best" debate and Kerry's "worst?" Holy cow!
Does that mean if Kerry gets off his lazy ass and actually prepares for the next one, blood will run from Ws eyes and ears?
Yeegads what a maroon--even God-fearin', gay-hatin', fetus lovin', red-state Muricans gotta be getting just a wee bit annoyed at how stoopid Rove thinks we all are at this point.
I think I broke Haloscan by missing a simple letter "a", sorry.
I'm sure after they walked him off the stage and gave him his "liquid medicine" ole W was just itching to get to the BUTTON and teach them damn people what it means to fuck with a bush!
Scary, but it probably passed through the dried fungoid organ that passes for a reptilian brain in W's head.
I couldn't believe the leash remark! I was too busy conjuring up Abu Ghraib images in my head to think of how I felt personally about it. Do you think Bush is going to put Lynndie England's phone number on speed dial for when Babs & Jenna get out of control?
I expected nothing less from President Kerry. In the coming days, watch those red states turn blue
Just about time for another terra alert.
It's just so hysterical to see the repugs and the SCLM actually TRY to spin this.
If bush has mopped the floor with Kerry the way kerry did with bush, it would be OVER and bill hemmer, fox and friends, and EVERY SINGLE liberal media outlet would be dancing in the streets live from crawford texas throwing it in everyone's faces. They can't even crack a smile now and are so disgusted at having to give Kerry even the most minor of props because they KNOW george bush looked like a spoiled little child.
And what does that LITTLE BITCH drudge post?
"Bush inner circle suggests Bush visit with Hurricane victims earlier in day was emotionally draining, contributed to "tired" appearance in debate..." or says that "Kerry said Treblinka! He got it wrong!"
Desperate repugs!
Yes, it was past our President's "nappy time" ladies and gentleman. We should have had the debates at 6pm so georgie could leave and put his PJ's on.
Folks, IT IS OVER.
KERRY JUST SO KICKED HIS ASS but even more importantly, george KICKED HIS OWN ASS.
On Imus, Howard Fineman's only non-pro bush line was about how bush brought 30 minutes of material to a 90-minute debate and couldn't wait for his time to expire.
Kerry just did phenomenal, the LIBERAL media knows it and if they can't come to terms it's because the PUBLIC ALREADY SAW our next president of the United States.
We need to hop on the Edwards-Cheney poll the same way--give Little John a boost, too.
Man, I just can't get over Kerry's performance and the Chimpster--BWWWWWAAAAAHAHAHAHA! Wonder what the polls are going to look like next week.
WHOO HOO!
Here's a new Kerry slogan: George has lost his way but he's afraid to stop and ask for directions! This will remind every woman in America of the time their pig-headed husband/father/brother refused to pull into a gas station and find out which way to go.
Dave
Dave, I think this is exactly what you don't want to do. They may get peeved when the husband doesn't ask for directions, but they married them and probably love them despite their little foibles.
I think any equating a trivial thing like asking for directions or not, with a deadly serious thing like Iraq and the war, is a dangerous idea.
Let's not trivialize it "so EVEN the adled can understand it"...though traits like his arrogance in dealing with other nations is up for grabs.
Most irony I could handlei none sitting, the prez lecturing on "how to build a coalition" with diplomacy.
Best answer was Kerry's "I believe I've been dealing with these leaders for far longer than you have" or something to that effect! Excellent point!
'Course, none of this is going to matter much once Al Queda gets their nuclear subs into position.'
As a wise man once said about trolls;
'They're cowardly scum.'
Bush wants to leash his daughters?
Was that an allusion to the prisoners on leashes in Abu Ghraib?
Course, this probably means we're in more danger now than we've ever been in our lives...
Patriotboy Strikes Again
Tell those idiots at CNN.
Friday, October 01, 2004
CNN's "undecided" voter is actually a patriot
I needed to calm down after George drove the John Deere into my bedroom yesterday, so I kicked on CNN. I find American Morning very reassuring. A few minutes of Bill Hemmer, Heidi Collins, and Jack Cafferty telling me that Our Leader is boldly and resolutely handling the challenges facing America is all the tonic I need to put me in a proper frame of mind for the rest of the day.
Early in the program, Mr. Hemmer interviewed three undecided Florida voters about their hopes for last night's debate. The fact that at least two of the three seemed to be fairly intelligent made me wonder just how undecided they really were--after all, you'd have to be a complete idiot to be unable to choose between one of the candidates by now.
I found it more than a bit curious that one of undecideds, Edward Martos, is a graduate student in public administration at the University of Miami. Public administration? You'd think that he'd certainly be a bit more informed about politics and public policy that the average guy. How could he still be undecided?
After a little googling, I learned that Mr. Martos seems to be leading a double life. While claiming to be the politically independent president of a non-partisan campus group called the Council for Democracy, he is also very involved with the College Republicans, having served on committees to draft the UMCR constitution and organize a veterans memorial committee. He has also served as the Assistant Editor in Chief for the CR newsletter, Eye On Politics.
"Perhaps," I thought, "there are two Edward Martoses attending UM," but then I learned that the College Republican Edward Martos promoted Council for Democracy events at College Republican meetings. Certainly, it's the same guy.
The picture sealed it for me. The College Republican Edward Martos is the guy I saw on CNN. He's supposed to be on again this morning. Watch it and see for yourself.
Edward Martos is my new hero. He's been able to fool a lot of people, including Bill Hemmer, into believing that he's an independent when he's actually a GOP foot soldier and patriot. He'll go far in a party that reveres Karl Rove.
posted by Gen. JC Christian, Patriot | 1:45 AM
Is it too late to mention Krugman's column? He finshes Bush off with stuff Kerry could use, if he wanted to:
"As a result of the American military," President Bush declared last week, "the Taliban is no longer in existence."
It's unclear whether Mr. Bush misspoke, or whether he really is that clueless. But his claim was in keeping with his re-election strategy, demonstrated once again in last night's debate: a president who has done immense damage to America's position in the world hopes to brazen it out by claiming that failure is success....
Let's talk for a minute about Afghanistan, which administration officials tout as a success story. They rely on the public's ignorance: voters, they believe, don't know that even though the United States promised to provide Afghanistan with both security and aid during its transition to democracy, it broke those promises. It has allowed the country to slide back into warlordism - and allowed the Taliban to make a comeback.
These days, Mr. Bush and other administration officials often talk about the 10.5 million Afghans who have registered to vote in this month's election, citing the figure as proof that democracy is making strides after all. They count on the public not to know, and on reporters not to mention, that the number of people registered considerably exceeds all estimates of the eligible population. What they call evidence of democracy on the march is actually evidence of large-scale electoral fraud.
Oh, how I would love to see Edwards bring this up with Cheney. And then for Kerry to find a way to work it in to the next debate.
'Twould be loverly.
I expect to see some viscious spin in the coming dazs (and this bogus "flip-flop" nonsense to be played and played again EVEN more). But unfortunately, now Bush/Chenney have an even more dangerous weapon to reverse public opinion...
Get ready for another "terror alert" in the next couple weeks.
Man, on man, the Disaster Monkey was pathetic last night. I knew he would be but didn't expect it to come through so loud and clear. A lot of people actually felt sorry for him for a split second. Read a lot of that last night. I finished off that last beer about 12am after the debate and talking about it and slept like a big ol' baby until this morning. We all needed that.
KERRY IN A LANDSLIDE! WHOO HOO!
Hi-its the libertarian back.
Watched hte debated with a bunch of libertarian friends and 1 dem. Everybdody think Bush lost badly. Two of them who were going to vote for Bush, now say Kerry. The rest of the Bush supporters are now undecided. As an aside, I have never seen Kareen Hughes so angry in my life. did anybody else notice that she was screaming at reporters, and looked like she was about to cry? Good job.
Late in the thread, I know, but don't worry I'll whore it again.
The Debate in pictures
What do you have to sniff to watch that debate and think Bush outperformed Kerry?
"Well, sure he got knocked out, but he looked great in the corner between rounds."
~ahem~ man oh man
Kerry IS the closer we were promised. Bush seemed like the reincarnation of Capt. Queeg.
What most surprised me was the way Bush's body language betrayed him. This is his forte and his area of "expertise". Yet he was leaning on the podium like it was a life preserver, all hunched and cramped, which made him seem even smaller and more defensive. And his facial expressions clearly showed a man who is unaccustomed to being challenged or criticized.
Try imagining which of these two men would be most persuasive in building an international coalition. No contest.
John Kerry. A serious man and a serious commander in chief.
Best post-debate commentary went to TDS, for my money.
Fortunately I taped it, so now I can enjoy it again and again. My favotire bit (from a fuzzy morning memory) was the clips of the debate itself. When Kerry shot back with a short answer (less than the 90 seconds alloted), and, in real time, the camera went to Bush for a response. He said something like: "Well...." and then started straight into the camera, stupefied. A full-face chimp expression for 60 million Americans to see.
The TDS audience roared.
It was almost as good as the Pet Goat moment. Can't wait for an explanation of that one.
Damn, that was a devestating performance by Bush last night.
And his facial expressions clearly showed a man who is unaccustomed to being challenged or criticized.
That was really it, wasn't it? "Steadfast" comes to mean "don't tell me anything I don't want to hear." "Steady" clearly means: "I've made up my mind, don't confuse me with the facts."
Kerry ran rings around Bush on the facts. As Jon Stewart pointed out, Bush's response was primarily either "Steadfast leadership" or "Don't forget Poland!"
He couldn't respond to the simple challenge of Kerry's points. No wonder the poll numbers on who "won" are so lop-sided.
yup. Devastating.
Bush brought 30 minutes of material to a 90 minute debate.
"My opponent seems to have had less time than I did to make my point. Something's gotta be wrong with my timer."
Things are going to domestic policy and the economy with the next debates. That's Kerry's area.
GO BIG JOHN! EYES ON THE PRIZE!
Surely some smart others have mentioned this upthread, but what the hell, let's gloat a bit:
This was THE BEST Bush could do. He and his handlers insisted that foreign policy start us off because it's his STRONG SUIT.
He picked trump, lost playing it, and now we get to mop up.
What's this gonna look like when Mr. Prosecutor commands the stage and Chimpy struts and smirks?
What's it gonna like like when the topic is: Energy Policy, Medicare, THE DEFICIT, JobsJobsJobs, the environment...?
Wow.
Incognito:
There's a saying in New Jersey, I know it's in Florida, I guess it's in New Jersey, uh, "Great minds, uh, are better than one."
And did you see the split screen with the simp with his beady little eyes looking at Kerry? What a little punk ass bitch.
I watched on a Spanish channel in South America. Could not hear muted English very well, but I could tell Big John would carry the reviews. He looked like a president, unlike Bush, who looked harried and juvenile at times.
Substantively, I thought the real Queeg moment was when Bush said:
"I never - when I was running - when we had the debate in 2000, never dreamt I'd be doing that, but the enemy attacked us, Jim,..."
Kerry's response:
"Jim, the president just said, extraordinarily revealing and, frankly, very important in this debate. In answer to your question about Iraq and sending people into Iraq he just said, the enemy attacked us. Saddam Hussein didn't attack us. Osama bin Laden attacked us. Al Qaeda attacked us."
Bush's embarrassing reply:
"Of course I know Osama bin Laden attacked us. I know that."
"I KNOW THAT."
The petulant, defensive refrain of every unprepared, caught out slacker in every classroom you've ever seen.
I was hoping for the cut away shot from behind so I could see him slowly slipping the hand into his pocket, retrieving the two steel balls, and rolling them, oh so unconsciously, in his fingers.
Best timing ever...
I have to hand it to Kerry. his timing was impeccable.
He let Bush say, over and over like a broken record, "mixed messages" and "changes his position...no leader can do that"
Kerry waited til close to the end and then said:
"Its one thing to be certain. But you can be certain and wrong."
How well he said that, with words, with actions, with body language, with certainty. Yay...just yay!
presumably these polls, like the horse race polls, have to be corrected for oversampling of Republicans, thus making the real margin about 10% higher.
Bush just sort of babbled a lot but didn't say anything. Kerry was slapping him around like a red headed stepchild.
WHOO HOO!
MAJOR offensive into Samarra stronghold in Iraq. Coincidental?
"Course, this probably means we're in more danger now than we've ever been in our lives...
Incognito"
Ridiculous, unless you weren't alive in 1962.
ONE Russian sub captain from hell.
Bush couldn't threaten us anywhere near to that level, because he doesn't have much control over the military. That's the import of Kerry saying at the convention he is reporting for duty.
It wasn't just cute. It's saying that the military is not going to take any more of Bush's hatred of the troops (his desire for revenge, since he is the Eternal Victim).
--
What most surprised me was the way Bush's body language betrayed him. This is his forte and his area of "expertise".
Yes. Where did his neck go?
It started out funky. When they went up to shake hands at the start, Bush slung Kerry's hand back at Kerry when they finished shaking hands and then Bush swaggered back to the podium like a little petulant punk. Kerry sort of looked at him crossways like Bush was worthless. Did anyone else catch that?
MAJOR offensive into Samarra stronghold in Iraq. Coincidental?
Nothing says *liberty* like bombing the shit out of the home of the original good Samaritan.
I'm eating crow this morning, having predicted that such a scripted debate would favor the incumbant. Honestly, I've never had such sweet crow.
Paul, I was thinking the Bushistas could let a terrorist cell slip through. Look, they're going to do everything to stay in power. Another terrorist attack would be Plan B and Plan C would be to kill Kerry.
Paul, I was thinking the Bushistas could let a terrorist cell slip through.
Hi Incog.
You know what? It's too late for that. A terrorist attack works against Bush from now on.
The Bush-the-Incompetent meme simply has way too much traction at this point.
Hope you're right, mondo dentro.
I knew Bush had had it when, early in the debate, he started to whine when Kerry mentioned the economy or the budget--he turned to the moderator and said something to the effect that he didn't think that was on the agenda. don't recall the exact words, but, wow, what a baby.
Good morning world!!
Holey rusted metal, Batman!
NPR is fact-checking Bush on his "100,000 trained Iraqi troops" statement from the debate last night.
This is starting to turn into fun.
Chew on this:
Kerry did not attack the preznit last night. He just didn't.
What he did do, was to show how he'd do (and have done) things differently.
He didn't say "The Chimperor has no clothes". He just wore his own with the real dignity we expect of a President.
That's what sunk Bush.
I thought Bush's slide into annoyance, peevishness, anger, fury . . . began when JFK pointed out that in '91 Bush Sr. had predicted that Baghdad would be a disaster. It figures. Rebellious teenagers never like to hear that their parents got it right.
Good morning, indeed!
Man, Kerry knocked bu$h on his ass. Handed it to him in a sling!
I don't need a poll to tell me what I saw with my own lying eyes. That said, I answered all the polls till my hands cramped.
P.S. Atrios, you got some serious traffic last night and we all behaved.
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Wake up everybody, wake up! (OK, you West Coasters have an excuse.)
Has anyone else noticed how lumpy Bush looks from the back? I've been wondering since Inauguration Day, when he looked as if he was wearing two armored vests under his clothes. I've noticed it in other settings, and again last night. Was he wearing a mic that didn't fit well? Kerry looked fine.
What a great debate.
Real substance. Real differences.
Kerry mopped the floor with Bush, and looked Presidential and Commander-in-Chiefish doing it.
Bush looked like a whiny, petulant child caught misbehaving and trying to deny it.
And this was supposed to be Bush's GOOD debate?
That lumpy ridge down Bush's back was his reptilian backbone.
Has anyone else noticed how lumpy Bush looks from the back?
Probably Karl feeding Shrimp his
answers.
I thought Bush's slide into annoyance, peevishness, anger, fury . . . began when JFK pointed out that in '91 Bush Sr. had predicted that Baghdad would be a disaster.
I agree. Bush's problems with his dad are his Achille's heel. Kerry should find a way early in the domestic policy debate to bring up the fact that Bush I promised no new taxes, but adjusted to changed circumstances and raised taxes while his son has refused to do so. It nettles Bush II to be reminded of his old man. When he gets nettled, he makes mistakes.
It's saying that the military is not going to take any more of Bush's hatred of the troops (his desire for revenge, since he is the Eternal Victim).
--
Paul
I was thinking about this, since Bush's constant refrain was that the troop wouldn't follow Kerry. He does hate the troops or at least doesn't respect them, or is willing to pimp them out. That's gotta be sinking in to even the most patriotic minds.
Mr Karen Hughes is trying to spin it this morning. Nothing surprising there.
The way to use Bush's conflation of Saddam and Osama is NOT to say it shows how ignorant he is, but to credit his statement that:
"Of course I know Osama bin Laden attacked us. I know that."
Of course he knew that. He's not stupid. He's a liar. That's why, during the runup to the war, he was deliberately misleading us into thinking Saddam was behind 9/11. And that's the proof that he was still trying to mislead us last night when he said:
"I never - when I was running - when we had the debate in 2000, never dreamt I'd be doing that, but the enemy attacked us, Jim,..."
And that's why he has no credibility with the international community, including Poland:
"They deceived us about the weapons of mass destruction, that's true. We were taken for a ride."
-President Aleksander Kwasniewski of Poland
Listening to Hughes, I now truly believe that you have to have cognitive dissonance to move up in the Republican Party. Darn that pesky reality!
Hey, Incog. You feeling better about stuff, man?
This is starting to turn into fun.
Indeed, sir! Can you imagine how
*good* Bu$h will do in a town hall
type setting? BWAHAHAHA.
I'm still buzzing from Big John's performance. LANDSLIDE BABY!!!
Kerry won the debate without even breaking a sweat.
What most surprised me was the way Bush's body language betrayed him. This is his forte and his area of "expertise".
Yes. Where did his neck go?
idiotmanchild | Email | Homepage | 10.01.04 - 8:03 am
"There are those... who say... that life is an illusion... and that ree-al-i-tee... is simply a figmun'... of the imaginashin. If this is so... then Brad and Janet... are quite safe. However... my opponent flip-flopped... flip-flopped on the war... on the war on terra."
The freepers are desperate. They surmise that since Kerry came off so polished, he had been told the questions beforehand.
*proof*:
I, too, think Kerry had the questions beforehand. The final sentence in his first statement led me to believe this.
"All of these, and especially homeland security, which we'll talk about a little bit later."
How did he know what they would talk about a little bit later?
Yeah, if Kerry saw homeland security coming in a debate, he must have either gotten the question in advance or else he's a super genius. Morans.
When all else fails, blame the other side of cheating.
Hey, Incog. You feeling better about stuff, man?
filkertom
Yeah, and it's not just wishful thinking most here have been coasting on. It's real. Kerry can win but we still have over a month to go and then to Jan. 20.
I knew Bu$h was seriously done in when the kids in my *audience* started laughing out loud about how
"hard" everything is for poor wittle
Bushy.
This was comming from some very pampered kids.
It's real. Kerry can win but we still have over a month to go and then to Jan. 20.
Incognito | Email | Homepage | 10.01.04 - 8:37 am
Oh yeah. Eyes on the prize. We can't let up for a second.
RMJ, help me out here.
Rhetorical strategy 101: Don't repeat yourself. Say it once, say it well, get the hell off the topic. What struck me last night was how frequenly Bush repeated the same 2 or 3 talking points, most of which were Kerry's critiques of him. (That "wrong war, wrong place, wrong time" struck me especially.) If you see that in a student's paper, you know they have nothing to say. That's not good, when you're the president. Kerry repeated himself a few times, too, but less, and further apart, so it didn't seem blatant to me.
Incog, I'm glad you're cheered by the evening's events. It might be okay after all.
I apologize for the earlier Rocky Horror joke. It's early. I should've had Dubya stutter a lot more.
NYMary -- yeah, wasn't it amazing how frequently he parroted his talking points? I mean, we suspected he was going to do it to an extent, but, my God, he was like a See And Say. "The War President Says, 'The world is safer with Saddam gone from Iraq'."
OT:
Big NYT headline on front page: House Ethics (sic) Panel Says DeLay Tried To Trade Favor For a Vote.
DUH.
This week in my class, I was doing my usual intro to The Odyssey, talking about how intelligence is vaguely suspect (and thus Odysseus is not an unequivocal good guy). I observed that we have no term such as "evil super-idiot" (cf. "evil super-genius"), but my students begged to differ. "Sure we do. George Bush." From the mouths of babes indeed.
Americans Flip Flop
They voted for W before they voted against him...
NYMary, it's classic bush as far as i'm concerned. i remember a press conference back in april where he stammered and stuttered looking uncomfortable until he found a way to return to one of his 5 or 6 answers (which he repeated ad nauseum). notice how his speech is filled with um's and wincing until he makes the often tenuous connnection between the question and one of his practiced answers. his confidence level zooms and he stops stammering.
New thread up.
I'm still not going to relax until Jan. 21.
Tell Time what you think:
here
Here's a winger poll I found that has like 5 votes so far. Get 'em.
http://tinyurl.com/6q93g
Chrissy,
fortunately, most of them didn't vote for him the first time...
Try this: The American people flip-flop. They used to see George Bush as an amiable doofus, they now see him as a dangerous fool.
Ron Reagan actually mentioned my pet
peeve about Shrimp last night.
It drives me mad to see him slump
all over the podium, leaning sideways.
Is he so unsteady he needs the darned thing to hold himself up?
do you think since bush is loving missy as best he can that he secretly desires to be an ob-gyn so he could spread his love?
just wondering.
kelmac,
I pointed this out to my kid, who had to watch it for school. You're right: the real contortions were getting from the question to the script. Unfortunately, the script was completely inappropriate, so we were just left with the contortions.
If I wasn't so gleeful, I'd feel bad for the guy. He really did look like he was going to weep/throw up/pass out several times.
Grittymouse,
That poll will make both Hanity And
the baby Jesus cry.
Any bets as to when today a new terror alert will be issued?
w stands for whiner.
Krugman has a great point (naturally) that should be turned into a bumber sticker:
'Bush Is Relying On You Being Ignorant'
Here's the official brownshirt spin from Ken Mehlman:
Over the next few days, at the office, at your children's football or soccer games, and in your homes, people will be talking about last night's debate. Here are some important facts to keep in mind as you're talking with friends and neighbors about the exchange.
President Bush spoke clearly and from the heart last night about the path forward - toward victory and security - in the War on Terror. The President spoke candidly about the difficulties facing our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan as these countries prepare for their first free elections. The terrorists will continue to fight these steps toward freedom because they fear the optimism and hope of democracy. They fear the prospects for their ideology of hate in a free and democratic Middle East.
President Bush detailed a path forward in the War on Terror - a plan that will ensure that America fights the enemy in Iraq and Afghanistan - not in America's cities.
John Kerry failed the one test he had to pass last night: he failed to close the credibility gap he has with the American people as his record of troubling contradiction and vacillation spiraled down to incoherence.
People have a clear choice between President Bush's clarity and strength to fight and win the War on Terror and John Kerry's attacks and reversals - born out of political calculation, not a vision for winning the War on Terror. People saw for themselves last night where John Kerry would lead our military, our allies and the world in the War on Terror - down a bumpy road paved with indecision, vacillation and cynicism. John Kerry has a record of wavering in the face of real challenges.
Truth and optimism are not competing ideals. The War on Terror is difficult - there will be good days and bad days, but the war is essential to our safety at home and victory is the only option.
Here's what you say to that moronic brownshirt fuck at work today: "So you're boy really screwed the pooch last night, didn't he?" Stand back and watch the head explode...
Today, I am happy.
I have waited for this since the democratic primary debates, where John Kerry proved to me that he is presidential.
Bush doesn't stand a chance.
If this country still elects Bush after last night's debate, then we have no hope at all.
RMJ, help me out here.
Rhetorical strategy 101: Don't repeat yourself. Say it once, say it well, get the hell off the topic.
Again, politics today (maybe always) is a lot like songwriting, where the hard part is keeping it simple, and repeating it in the chorus. In speeches, not in debates.
There is that old saying "when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"...all Bush has is a hammer. A clumsy, falling apart, plastic, childrens hammer. He sees nails everywhere. he doesn't do nuance. He isn't even really hitting many nails in.
Kerry wiped the floor with him, ALSO by repeating but by doing in such a way that it seemed different. Repeating exactly the same phrases over and over is what often works in speeches, but NOT in debates. Speeches have the cadences and the familiarity that songs also strive for. Themes, repeating elements (that one keeps returning to), variations and return to the simple chorus.
Saying the same thing in diffent ways, bringing in different nuances, different supporting arguments, THAT sticks. THAT is what doing a goo djob in a debate requires.
Again though, Kerry weaved these elements but only as the top layer, ubnderneath it all he had facts, he had thought out these things and rethought them until he had all the major points figured out...he had a plan. Bush kept trying to fake that he had a plan. He could only hammer, and he's asking to be reelected chief carpenter.
Okay...here's a major difference too.
We here, (me included, for sure), often make ameteurish recommendations for "what Kerry needs to do" or "Kerry should..." statements.
As I wrote before, glad to see he kept professional, waiting til Bush kept picking at the "flip-flop" thing before hammering him with that "certain is good, but certain can also be..." statement.
Many of us have reams of statements, or facts with which to unveil Bush's hypocrisy. We all wished one thing or another Kerry ought to have responded last night to REALLY "nail Bush"...
The thing that is encouraging about the fact he didn't, even though we all know he knew about them...is that Kerry isn't interested in making Bush twist-in-the-wind. He also isn't playing "high road" like an elitist loser like Gore did. Not deigning to get down and dirty. He HAS gotten down and dirty, but only when it was because it was an important point.
What I'm trying to say is, Kerry showed me something important last night, that he isn't interested in rubbing Bush's nose in his mistakes, he is keeping his eye on the ball and HE WANTS TO DO THE JOB, and to do it RIGHT! Way more than he wants the temporary (and selfish) satisfaction of showing everyone how much of a dunderhead Bush is and how badly he's screwed up.
He is itching to get in there and fix it! I don't agree with all his stances in all issues, but he's my candidate. He is champing at the bit to fix these messes.
It took a LOT of guts also to state flat out, the hypocrisy of the nuclear policies of Bush, and that "first thing when I'm in office, bunker buster nuke project is cut, immidiately" (or to that effect).
He sees the big picture, way better than I do. I already (absentee, expatriote) voted for him, but this is the first time I am JAZZED about having done so, instead of just feeling it necessary ABB.
This quote shows how detached and out of touch with reality Bush is:
About his understanding that fighting is "hard work". -
"I see on the TV screens how hard it is"
Amazing...
Also, not many have touched upon...
The truly awkward and doomed feeling when the question shifted to Darfur?
My impression, is was right out there for all to hear from BOTH sides, the tacit agreement that the US armed forces are stretched too thin to be able to react or deploy.
All Bush came with was talk about pouring money into it.. Kerry said, it would be very difficult with current levels and Iraq, but may be necessary and if so MUST be done.
The state of things right now was due to only ONE of them that stood up there.
The Coward was near a meltdown on a subject(foreign policy and security) that was supposed to be his strong suit. I can't wait for the "town hall debate." Get your six pack and your bottle of Jack ready because we may see this Asshole actually crap in his pants trying to answer a question from a so-called undecided.
trying to answer a question from a so-called undecided.
Chi Bob
Yesh...except anyone undecided at this point, I don't think they'd be able to settle on a question.
Does ANYONE here know a real honest-to-god undecided?
Do they know anything about what Bush has done to this country? Or is it that they know they can't vote for Bush but can't stand thinking about voting for a "liberal"?
I really cannot picture the opposite type...a liberal trying to decide if they might vote for Bush.
Well, a puppet is only as good as his handlers, and now we can see the "genius" of KKKarl Rove and KKkaren Hughes, two people whose hatred of American freedoms is even more dangerous than the terrorists'. The greed and lust for money and power have warped the right wing's principles to the point of outright lying and dissembling to the people through the powerful repig-owned and operated media. They will spin this for all they're worth, and then have to rinse and repeat three more times, as Edwards destroys Darth Cheney and Kerry puts the finishing touches on the chimperor. We can only hope that the Great Unwashed is watching the debates rather than Bonanza reruns; if they are, they'll get it. Bush looked and acted like a petulant loser, and that will have an effect.
Saturday Night Live starts its new season this Saturday.
Please. Please. Please. Let them do to Bush what they did to Gore.
God knows he gave them the ammunition.
Dammit! Bush looked like Humphrey Bogart in the debate..... Unfortunately for the Repubs it was the way Bogart looked in the Caine Mutiny. (Newton posted the comparision first, but I thought of it watching the debate - nice to see I wasn't the only one)
Note to SCLM talking (empty)heads: If this was a tie, so was the battle of the Little Big Horn.
This is going down in history the way the first JFK - Nixon one did - Bush didn't so much lose on what he said - he stuck to the three or four talking points Rove taught him to parrot - he lost on how he said it (haltingly and with no conviction) and the way he looked saying it and the way he looked while listening. Just as Tricky Dick's 5 o'clock shadow and flop sweat lost him the debate against Kennedy, Dubya's deer-in-headlights vacant stare, alternating with pouting and petulance lost him the debate and will lose him the election.
TALKING POINT: BUSH WAS WEAK!
Bush handed us a huge opening tonight.
It was great that Kerry finally came out so strong, but much more important that Bush wilted so meekly.
Bush was weak! Bush was weak! Bush was weak! Bush was weak! Bush was weak! Bush was weak!
Weak in style, weak on substance.
The Leader Of The Free World sputtered through most of the debate, grew flustered, appeared confused, couldn't seem to remember the question, lost his train of thought . . .
Kerry called him on his colossal failures and all he could manage was to point out Poland was behind us in Iraq.
And could he have been a bigger weanie the way he pouted and pursed his lips every time Kerry pounded him into the pavement?
It's time we act like the Republicans and grab hold of a theme and run with it.
Time to undermine George with exactly the message which will damage him most, and will resonate because it was so real.
George Bush was weak!
Keep that meme running.
Our president was weak! Our president was weak!
He has staked his entire campaign on an image of strength. If we seize now on what every American saw with their own eyes, and can hammer that message home, the pillar of his support crumbles.
George Bush was weak.
Our enemies took comfort tonight. They watched a weak president.
We are saddled with a weak leader.
No wonder we're in Iraq all by our lonesome. Can you picture George Bush negotiating with world leaders? We never get to see those private exchanges, we've been guessing for four years about how he acts one on one with a tough international adversary. Now we have a window into just how weak the man is. Putty in Dominique De Villepin's hands.
Can you imagine a more ghastly image to a conservative?--Getting our butts whipped in negotiations with FRANCE!
Our president is weak.
Whoops, didn't mean to double-post. I guess when you hit the refresh button, that's the effect.
I had not read the whole thread last night, didn't realize others were also pushing the "Bush is weak" meme.
I think it's the way to go.
But I have to say, I slept SO well, last night.
Glorious day to be a Democrat.
KERRY suggested giving IRAN nuclear material?
Cannot tell us what his position on IRaq is?
Calls for dealing with N. KOREA alone?
LOL
and you post C-BS polls?
LOL
LOL
LOL
Dem denial...
funny...
http://www.foxnews.com/ finally has their debate poll online. Get on over there and vote; its tied right now.
quite devestatingly, some (albeit idiotic) commentators have pointed out that a debate victory doesn't equate with fitness-for-presidency.
in this year's case, i wish it did.
similarly: haven't we already learned that bush's support remains thick and strong despite his idiocy, his contradictions, his vacuous incompetence, and so on?
he lost on how he said it (haltingly and with no conviction)
Many have mentioned this in the last few months.
Maybe Bush REALLY doesn't want to be president anymore. Maybe under it all, he doesn't even know it himself, but maybe he really is beat, thinks this is too hard...he's been walking around clenched for 4 years now. Maybe he's actually tired of play-acting as if he cared, as if he had human emotions and empathy. That's gotta be a drain on a simple-minded, fortunate son.
Maybe deep down he wants to lose this.
The thing is...a lot of times when you aren't so invested in winning a thing, you take chances...and that often can win a complex game.
Wouldn't that be a kicker...he wants to lose, so he is all reckless, and the people see that as "honesty and guts" and he can't fucking lose...
except, if he keeps debating this badly and showing his real, bullying and petty self he'll get his wish.
Characters Remaining:
Commenting by HaloScan
