I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Mmmmm... subversion.
Awesome, folks. You rock!
Hee hee, that made my morning! Thanks guys!
That is simple and beautiful. One of the funniest things I've read lately. I love resistance tactics.
Why don't you ...
... always type "frist" if you are!
What a frickin week! Power to the people.
Truly awesome.
We are not worthy.
Bwahahahahahahahaha!
WooHoo!!!
Well done, folks. Terrific stuff.
Excellent stuff.
On a related note, I would love to see Fox's daily memoranda leaked every day.
Updates to follow as I am able to comb the papers, pundits, and putzes for more feedback.
it was good, but above is the crux of the matter. i wish we could vote for journalists.
paul krugman for head journalist.
But if we Democrats don't get the talking points, how are we supposed to use them unwittingly?
Actually, how does anyone know they weren't really real Republicans? 
LA Times instant poll this morning:
'Who do you think won the first Bush-Kerry debate?
19337 total responses
Bush: 8.9%
Kerry: 87.6%
Draw: 3.4%
Not quite as good as SF Chronicle, showing now Kerry at 91%
Mehlman must be relying on the fact that nobody ever gets terminated by the Shrubbery.
Heh, all this talk about the blogosphere having no effect on the real media...
On the downside--we didn't get to hear more about how he was going to spin the Repubs' response.
Hope we can continue to get these call-in numbers!
This is so funny. I'll bet the GOP'ers will be trying to hunt down Atrios' source. Be careful, guys.
Meantime, Patriotboy continues his fine work, tracking CNN's failures. Again.
here's what the General wrote this morning:
CNN's "undecided" voter
I needed to calm down after George drove the John Deere into my bedroom yesterday, so I kicked on CNN. I find American Morning very reassuring. A few minutes of Bill Hemmer, Heidi Collins, and Jack Cafferty telling me that Our Leader is boldly and resolutely handling the challenges facing America is all the tonic I need to put me in a proper frame of mind for the rest of the day.
Early in the program, Mr. Hemmer interviewed three undecided Florida voters about their hopes for last night's debate. The fact that at least two of the three seemed to be fairly intelligent made me wonder just how undecided they really were--after all, you'd have to be a complete idiot to be unable to choose between one of the candidates by now.
I found it more than a bit curious that one of undecideds, Edward Martos, is a graduate student in public administration at the University of Miami. Public administration? You'd think that he'd certainly be a bit more informed about politics and public policy that the average guy. How could he still be undecided?
After a little googling, I learned that Mr. Martos seems to be leading a double life. While claiming to be the politically independent president of a non-partisan campus group called the Council for Democracy, he is also very involved with the College Republicans, having served on committees to draft the UMCR constitution and organize a veterans memorial committee. He has also served as the Assistant Editor in Chief for the CR newsletter, Eye On Politics.
"Perhaps," I thought, "there are two Edward Martoses attending UM," but then I learned that the College Republican Edward Martos promoted Council for Democracy events at College Republican meetings. Certainly, it's the same guy.
The picture sealed it for me. The College Republican Edward Martos is the guy I saw on CNN. He's supposed to be on again this morning. Watch it and see for yourself.
Edward Martos is my new hero. He's been able to fool a lot of people, including Bill Hemmer, into believing that he's an independent when he's actually a GOP foot soldier and patriot. He'll go far in a party that reveres Karl Rove.
posted by Gen. JC Christian, Patriot | 1:45 AM
PWNED!
When I got into the call, the screener asked my name. I gave her my pen name. Then she asked "What company are you from?" Wonder if they have team leaders assigned by company. I volunteered to represent the first company that popped into my head, Verizon. Didn't get my question in: "Why was the President blinking so much?"
GET IT OFF ME!!! GET IT OFF ME!!!
.
Did anyone try being objective while watching the debate? My wife and I tried very hard, but within 10 seconds of Bush speaking we are both screaming at the TV. Just the sight of the nimrod makes me angry.
Hilarious! Well, the callers only articulated what thinking repubs know to be true.
The dems are fired up this time, and last night gave them even more confidence in Kerry. Bush is going to be run out of town.
Here's what Ken Mehlman wants his GOP minions to say. Note that it's all lies -- Bush was NOT clear, he was stuttering and blathering. (When even Joe Scarborough makes the point that Bush shouldn't have asked for the extra 30 seconds if he didn't have anything to say, you KNOW Bush tanked!)
So get ready to debunk!
Subj: Reflections on First Debate Date: 10/01/2004 5:55:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time From: BushCheney04@GeorgeWBush.com (Campaign Manager Ken Mehlman) To: xxxxxxx.com
Ken Mehlman Campaign Manager
Dear xxxxxxx.com,
Over the next few days, at the office, at your children's football or soccer games, and in your homes, people will be talking about last night's debate. Here are some important facts to keep in mind as you're talking with friends and neighbors about the exchange.
www.GeorgeWBush.com/DebateFacts
President Bush spoke clearly and from the heart last night about the path forward - toward victory and security - in the War on Terror. The President spoke candidly about the difficulties facing our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan as these countries prepare for their first free elections. The terrorists will continue to fight these steps toward freedom because they fear the optimism and hope of democracy. They fear the prospects for their ideology of hate in a free and democratic Middle East.
President Bush detailed a path forward in the War on Terror - a plan that will ensure that America fights the enemy in Iraq and Afghanistan - not in America's cities.
John Kerry failed the one test he had to pass last night: he failed to close the credibility gap he has with the American people as his record of troubling contradiction and vacillation spiraled down to incoherence.
People have a clear choice between President Bush's clarity and strength to fight and win the War on Terror and John Kerry's attacks and reversals - born out of political calculation, not a vision for winning the War on Terror. People saw for themselves last night where John Kerry would lead our military, our allies and the world in the War on Terror - down a bumpy road paved with indecision, vacillation and cynicism. John Kerry has a record of wavering in the face of real challenges.
www.GeorgeWBush.com/DebateFacts
Truth and optimism are not competing ideals. The War on Terror is difficult - there will be good days and bad days, but the war is essential to our safety at home and victory is the only option.
Sincerely,
Ken Mehlman
If you need a little refresher on what the GOP "Team Leaders" are up to, there's a lovely thread on The Data Lounge to fill you in.
Holy Jeebus!
Great job of posting that conference call number, Atrios.
And I didn't think my morning could get any better.
Kevin Drum said, "I hope Atrios becomes funnier again."
This kind of funny works just fine for me.
Hey, have you heard?
The future doesn't belong to fear, it belongs to freedom.
Now, if we could just hack the Fox teleprompter, we'd have it made.
Be sure to email AND PHONE CNN to complain about their "undecided" voter who is a Republican activist. Atrios has a post on this from earlier today.
Did anyone try being objective while watching the debate?
...I really did try, but Bush's stupidity was too powerful. When he called Vladimir Putin, 'Vladmur', we couldn't take it anymore.
Thanks Team Leaders - y'all are great.
I just sent my second letter to the Dallas paper, which gave the debate win to Bush this way; "Bush wins by not losing." If anyone thinks that a pass-fail presidency is not what America needs, the email address is: letterstoeditor@dallasnews.com.
"Being President is very hard work!"
Georgie bleated with a smirk
Someone needs to be retired
Come November you'll be fired
You lying, incompetent jerk.
I think the Rove made a mistake...
I think that Bush's attacks HELPED
Kerry, by forcing viewers to directly
compare the flip-flop attack with the reality on stage.
The flip flop attack works, BUT only from a distance.
Who looked weak and decisive last night? NOT KERRY
Perhaps the only thing more pathetic than our president is the sight of those trying to spin his meltdown last night into a victory.
Or a 'draw.'
Glad to know even that's been hijacked.
LOL,
"MELLON" (geek humor)
Good job Atrios, you enabler you.
I think that Bush's attacks HELPED
Kerry, by forcing viewers to directly
compare the flip-flop attack with the reality on stage.
Exactly. BRING THAT WEAK SHIT!
Bush can call Putin whatever he wants, after all, he has looked into the man's eyes and seen his soul. (Or maybe he saw his sole, as in bottom of his foot. I'm not sure.) Anyway, it sounds intimiate.
I wonder if Bush found it hard to love him as best he could.
Atrios delayed the GOP formulating their talking points by several hours, which took a huge toll on Bush post-debate. Fantastic job Atrios, and many thanks to everyone who participated!
By the way, two interesting pieces on Moderate Independent:
First one just before the debate, about how Kerry was going to use Bush to wipe the floor;
Second one about Kerry wiping the floor with Bush.
From the Prospect's excellent debate wrap-up:
Not a moment too soon, Kerry shucked the Senate-speak, abandoned the adverbs, stopped depending on dependent clauses, and, in plain and forceful English, stated how Bush had put the nation at risk and had no plan whatever to extricate us from Iraq. Nobody had talked this way to Bush -- in public, anyway -- since Bush became president. And Bush did not handle it very well at all.
He blinked. He squirmed. He scowled. He repeated his lines ad nauseam. He embarked on answers in which it was clear his chief hope was that the two-minute limit would soon descend and spare him from the necessity of yet another repetition of his charge that Kerry has mixed messages -- or, as he called them during one particularly vexed reiteration, “mexed missages.” He again and again said a president had to speak clearly, but the clear speaking last night came from Kerry.
Filet of soul.
LANDSLIDE, LANDSLIDE, LANDSLIDE
http://us.news1.yimg.com/
us.yimg...r1120019532.jpg
"What About Poland ?
http://home.comcast.net/~tmp123/m3.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~tmp123/m4.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~tmp123/f1.jpg
Buchanan: "Kerry Won, and don't take my word, look at the faces of Bush's surrogates"
"A fresh start"
Senator Kerry used the phrase, "A Fresh Start", in one of his answers last night and it would be a good slogan for him until the election. Americans love the idea of throwing out old baggage and starting anew.
The debate was Kerry's; not overtly but his answers, for the most part, were concise and delivered with strength where Bush seemed nervous and kept repeating the same memorized tag lines his writers had given him. I think the most obvious difference were the shots of Bush as Kerry was speaking, many times he looked petulant, as if no one should be criticizing him.
Perhaps, I am mistaken, as I switched channels for a few minutes, and when I returned to the debate Bush was given his 30 seconds to reply to Kerry and he reacted as if he had not been listening. Please correct me if I am wrong; Bush said something about being a nice guy and began talking about north Korea when the topic had been Iraq.
Yup, Bush was saying to America: "Who you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?"
The man he was talking about was not the man standing next to him.
Mr. Tena watched the debate calmly while I paced, blogged and screamed uncontrollably at Bush every time he opened his mouth. I also cried when Kerry got going a couple of times. Mr. Tena is of the opinion that Bush won one point in the debate - the point about changing presidents in the middle of a war and criticizing a war president. I don't agree with Mr. Tena on this. But his point, and it's one I can see, is how that will take hold with some voters.
The soft bigotry of low expectations is out in force this morning. We've got a lot more Bush squashing to do - but I think that should get easier from here on out. Last night was the sweetest thing I've seen since Bill Clinton stood up and made us want him as our president.
One thing I really need to complement Kerry on... his composure and comportment were spot on. He spoke eloquently and always summed up his point as the red light started flashing. He looked Presidential and in control.
Bush on the other hand looked surly, rumpled, antsy, confused, tired and angry. He managed to package the arrogant stupidity I've come to expect from him in a made for tv 'look'.
What happened to the massive organizational advantage the GOP had over the Dems that Wired wrote about yesterday?
I think we just want to win this one more than the other side, and that may make all the difference.
Did anyone try being objective while watching the debate?
My conservative friends implored me to be open minded, so I was; here are my immediate reactions.
My later realization is that Bush is going to win.
Say freeper and enter.
The flip flop attack works, BUT only from a distance.
They also boomerang.
Recall Gore in the first debate with Bush was criticized for being "stiff" and "robotic." So, in the subsequent debate, he loosened up. That was the "sighing" debate.
Gore was damned, no matter what he did. Now Bush is in that position. He's the "steadfast leader." If he changes in the next debate, is he still steadfast? If he doesn't, then this performance was reality, not an accident.
Damned if he does; damned if he doesn't.
And all Kerry has to do is match what he did last night. Debates are not an isolated presentation of a candidate. That's what makes them valuable. People judge by comparison. Bush next to Kerry, and who inspires more confidence, acts more "Presidential," seems more competent?
That's how people judge. The good perception Kerry won last night is now his to lose. Bush doesn't have it in him to match Kerry on that point.
Check out the DNC's Faces of Frustration.
Tena,
For someone who was stoned, I would have thought your reaction would have been a little more mellow. You and A. did a GREAT job live blogging.
Bush got owned.
Whole Lotta Lovin'
Bush (9/30/04):
"You know, it's hard work to try to love her as best as I can knowing full well that the decision I made caused her, her loved one to be in harm's way"
Bush (9/6/04):
"Too many Ob-Gyns aren’t able to practice their love with women all across this country"
Twitching. Rolling eyes. Petulence.
Wow.
Bush just Gored himself in the first debate.
I'm sure FOX will climb down his throat for being so unpresidential.
And second now...
Tena--
Mr. Tena is of the opinion that Bush won one point in the debate - the point about changing presidents in the middle of a war and criticizing a war president.
I think that is a point, and every side always has its point. Even the most frivolous lawsuit or baseless criminal charge has something that cannot be ignored or wished away.
This is Bush's "something." However, I don't think it's enough to win for him. Hardcore Bush supporters will cling to it, but I don't think there are enough of those to swing this race to the GOP.
The "war" is not that big a factor in most people's lives, except as a concern about "what do we do now?" Bush proved Kerry right: do you want more of the same, or do you want to trust Kerry to do something different, and better? Bush's strongest point is that Kerry can't get Europe on his side by bashing this war as a mistake.
But Bush has already pissed all over Europe. He's certainly not going to suddenly win their hearts and minds. Kerry, despite the disaster of this war, has an edge there.
Bush has his hardcore. But last night he lost his "Kerry is unfit" campaign theme.
DUBAI, United Arab Emirates - An audiotape purportedly released by Osama bin Laden's deputy calls for attacks on U.S. and British interests everywhere, according to comments aired by Al-Jazeera TV Friday.
The station said the speaker on the tape was Ayman al-Zawahri, an Egyptian-born surgeon and the closest aide to al-Qaida terrorist group leader bin Laden
Does this surprise anyone? Be afraid, be very very afraid, expecting to see Ridge soon. US probably went into their stash of Audiotapes and sent them to Al-Jazeera.
I was just reading a predebate article in this week's Time and it mentioned the temperature setting in the room. One GOP advisor gleefully noted that women don't like to see men sweat, and Kerry had repeatedly wiped his brow in a debate with William Weld.
Anyone see any evidence of Kerry sweating last night? None. He was confident and well-spoken.
It was impossible to be objective watching split screen coverage. Bush's smirks, looks of annoyance, and tortured efforts to come up with answers to hard questios undid him.
Debate transcript. Enjoy.
What happened to the massive organizational advantage the GOP had over the Dems that Wired wrote about yesterday?
They've got nothing. Nothing. Look at the pathetic reactions at Drudge - Bush was tired from raising Lazarus in hurricane ravaged Florida, Joe Lockhart overheard calling it a draw, the Subway in NY was not closed, etc.
Considering Drudge is the place where they launch all their pathetic little trial balloons, I'd say there are a lot of neocons shredding papers at the Pentagon about now.
Ha! that's very funny.
You guys, get out there and write the networks and work the refs.
I listened to Heidi Collins this morning on CNN calmly tell me that in spite of the debate, nothing had changed on the electoral map (going by her gallup poll anyway). The message, chimpy sucked, but he's still gonna win.
Not enough people are talking about Bush confusing Saddam and Osama.
It was as if he really was brainwashed into thinking "there is no difference between osama and saddam" as he was fond of saying during the lead-up to the Iraq Invasion.
Hughes was Pissed on CNN; holy cow was she pissed! I'm thinking we're going to see Bush with some bandaids on his face Monday morning. Has it been raining in Crawford? Maybe enough to make the bike trails slippery again?
Short last night:
Bush = Flippant flop.
joshowitz,
Why do you flog such incoherence? I visited your blog and you don't even try to make sense.
You really should not encourage people to visit your blog.
Desperate spin from Drudge:
"Bush inner circle suggests Bush visit with Hurricane victims earlier in day was emotionally draining, contributed to "tired" appearance in debate... "
It was impossible to be objective watching split screen coverage. Bush's smirks, looks of annoyance, and tortured efforts to come up with answers to hard questios undid him.
It wasn't just the split screen. Jon Stewart had a great bit last night where Kerry fired back an answer in less than 90 seconds, and the camera pulled back to show both men, then moved over to Bush as Lehrer announced he could respond.
Bush gave a full-on chimp impression that recalled the "Pet Goat" moment. He simply stared blankly into the camera, while Stewart's audience roared.
I honestly don't think Bush has it in him to do any better than that. I don't know that he'll do worse, but unless Kerry just craters, he walks away from all three of these looking like the President against Bush's Little Boy in Daddy's Suit.
Debateblogging: Strong Alliances
Bush (approximately): "He says we didn't have allies? What does he say to Tony Blair? What does he say to Aleksander Kwasniewski of Poland?"
President Aleksander Kwasniewski of Poland: "They deceived us about the weapons of mass destruction, that's true. We were taken for a ride."
Bush gave a full-on chimp impression that recalled the "Pet Goat" moment. He simply stared blankly into the camera, while Stewart's audience roared.
And his republican supporters inwardly groaned.
Check out the DNC's Faces of Frustration.
pixie
Freaking HILARIOUS! Love the music too!
I can't wait for Tuesday and then Friday!
The many faces of frustration as shown on National TV courtesy of the DNC!
(see homepage)
Almost makes you want to feel sorry for that simean bastard.
Almost.
Does anyone have a recording of the conference call? My girlfriend and I were listening and we were DYING. The timing with which Mehlman cut the callers off was comic perfection.
So will the talking points from today forward include lots of "law and order" references? I did notice Bush got one plug for the unPATRIOT act into the mix.
Democratic Insurgency...such a nice sound.
Guys, don't get cocky.
Reagan totally tanked the first debate in 1984.
But Mondale tanked the second.
We all know how that turned out.
Last night was just one great battle in the war to win.
Does anyone know if the troops in Irag, Afganistan or in the US preparing to deploy got to watch the debates?
Funniest thing I've read today. Way to go Atrios!
RE: Whole Lotta Lovin'
Bush (9/30/04):
"You know, it's hard work to try to love her as best as I can knowing full well that the decision I made caused her, her loved one to be in harm's way"
Was Bush channeling King David?
http://www.bartleby.com/59/1/bat.../
bathsheba.html
The stupid media have laid way back on any annoucement that Kerry won the debate.
They are still pretending as if they are still trying to figure it all out.
Of course if Bush wins the debate next Friday, the media won't let us forget it.
They will start each interview question like this:
"It's very obvious that Bush won the debate... ."
"Bush clearly won the debate. . ."
"Everyone is saying that Bush won the debate."
"Bush, the clear debate winner,. . ."
Blah blah blah.
Did anyone try being objective while watching the debate? My wife and I tried very hard, but within 10 seconds of Bush speaking we are both screaming at the TV. Just the sight of the nimrod makes me angry
I'll go you one better. I actually tried to like the silly flit.
At one point in the debate I looked over at Mr. Athenae and said, "Ooh, that was a good answer."
Mr. Athenae felt my forehead, and moved the wine out of my reach.
A.
jps - well, thanks. I though Athenae did a great job and I sounded like a lunatic. But as for mellow - not so much. To me, Bush looked and acted and sounded like the fascist dictator he longs to be, and I was getting worried that Cheney would stand up in the audience with an assault weapon and take the whole auditorium out. The mind does run on...
pie - yeah, that was a great moment - one of those classic Bush moments in which either Karen went to take a pee and there were no words in his ear, or his mind flew out his asshole, again.
Reagan totally tanked the first debate in 1984.
But Mondale tanked the second.
The difference is: Reagan was a consummate actor, who knew how to deliver his lines.
Privately, he was a pushover, as revealed when he all but agreed to disarm, in talks with Gorbachev in Iceland.
Bush is an empty suit, and he displayed that last night. He's not the actor Reagan was; he won't be able to "put on" a new personality that shows his "steadfast leadership." All he can do is what he did last night: continue to talk about it, and believe that talk replaces actions.
It doesn't. It won't. I think the debates are now Kerry's to lose. So long as he maintains the same poise he showed last night, Bush looks like a chump. And the purpose of the debates is compare and contrast. The candidates are not examined in a vacuum: they are examined side by side.
The better Kerry looks, the worse Bush looks. Kerry absolutely deconstructed him last night, and Bush has shown before he's especially vulnerable to such a tactic. It's his greatest weakness, and I don't think he can shield it for two more debates.
Tena, you did great. I had a hard time typing as I jumped up and down like a five year old who just got a bike for Christmas.
We should do it again for the second debate.
A
What happened to the massive organizational advantage the GOP had over the Dems?
jps
Bush was so off his game there was nothing - NOTHING - to spin.
Even the GOP spin machine knew better than to call a Bush win - they went out calling it a tie, because if they had tried to say "Bush WON!" they would have gotten laughed at.
I've taken a few moments to paddle around the swamp today, and the Bush supporters are VERY quiet or openly admitting Bush couldn't get it up last night.
The Kerry supporters are all smiling, and relaxed in that way you feel after a night of GREAT sex.
Endorphins, baby.
Robert M Jeffers - how much do you want to bet that Bush's performance last night is the very best we'll ever see out of him? I don't think he has it in him to pull another one of those out of the bag. The man is so 1-dimensional and is a quitter to boot that I am waiting for the other shoe to drop. I'm waiting to hear that the rest of the debates have been cancelled.
And I'd like to hear more about Karen Hughes being pissed.
Yay! We proclaim ourselves to be the messiah-in-tandem!
Well not really.
The very best moment of the entire thing was when Kerry told the story of DeGaulle accepting the word of the President of the US as being "good enough" during the Cuban Missle Crisis.
It was like something out of a story by deMaupessant...
You could just see the blood drain from Bush's face as Kerry masterfully nailed the lid on Bush's own coffin.
With uncanny grace and ability, Kerry managed to sum up all of the questions at once with this little anecdote, and managing as a well-earned side benefit to take on the mantle of JFK without seeming in the least bit arrogant or assuming. Kerry truly showed his stealth jungle warrior credentials with this brilliantly concieved plan.
The coup de grace was Kerrys absolute spanking of Bush at the end, as he simply and dryly noted that such trust is certainly no longer accorded
by our Allies to the man who is presumably the leader of the free world. Bush could do nothing more than purse his lips and stew as he surveyed the shambles Kerry managed to make of Bush's fantasy castle with a few short, deftly aimed, and perfectly delivered rhetorical flourishes.
Pretzels for everyone!!!!!
Guys, don't get cocky ...
Spot on, Alderaan. Let's enjoy a little afterglow, then it's back to work.
One note about the '84 debate, though: I'm relying on memory here, but shaky Reagan looked a little worse than normal Bush. Shaky Bush was gahdam scary. Bush has a long way to go just to get back to normal Bush.
One thing that occurred to me is that the correct answer to Bush's "what kind of message does this send to the troops" is that "Democracy depends on the right of freedom of speech. We have a free nation only as long as we are free to speak our minds, and to disagree with those in power."
Discouse, baby, discourse.
I'm waiting to hear that the rest of the debates have been cancelled.
Yeah. They'll probabally blame it on the liberal media.
Robert M Jeffers - how much do you want to bet that Bush's performance last night is the very best we'll ever see out of him?
That's exactly what I think.
Bush is going to be so rattled now he won't know which end is up. He's been in a cocoon since 9/11: hiding from the press, going to carefully screeened campaign events, listening to and talking to only people who wholly support what he is doing. He can't handle the criticism.
Kerry, last night, reminded me that he's been in the Senate, learning to craft legislation and statecraft out of contention and argument. Bush, by contrast (and the debates are all about the contrast) looked brittle and defensive, someone who will take his ball and go home if the game doesn't go his way.
One looked Presidential. One didn't. I don't expect that to change.
Guys, don't get cocky.
Reagan totally tanked the first debate in 1984.
But Mondale tanked the second.
We all know how that turned out.
I know you're right, but do you honestly think Bush is suddenly going to rise to the occasion and give a good performance? Think of his latest appearances - the SOTU and the press conference with Allawi. He's only truly comfortable when he's surrounded by sycophants and adoring supporters, and no one is asking him hard questions.
When the pressure's on and the audience is mixed, even hostile, he cracks, smirks, gets angry, loses his cool. Okay if you're a dictator.
Not good if you're the president.
Helios sez"
The very best moment of the entire thing was when Kerry told the story of DeGaulle accepting the word of the President of the US as being "good enough" during the Cuban Missle Crisis.
That was terrific. A minor quibble, though: Kerry said Kennedy sent over his Sec of State (Dean Rusk). In fact, it was Dean Acheson.
Sorry, the historian in me can be pedantic.
.
Bush could do nothing more than purse his lips and stew as he surveyed the shambles Kerry managed to make of Bush's fantasy castle with a few short, deftly aimed, and perfectly delivered rhetorical flourishes.
It was lovely.
It was also frightening.
Because Kerry was right.
(If I had Official Non-Troll Credentials, I'd proffer them now)
[handwringing] Anyone else nervous that last night was Uncle Karl's masterful way of lowering the bar WWAAAYYY down for W in the remaining 2 debates?
Some artist must re-record "Waist Deep in the Big Muddy" as an answer to "Don't Change Horses in Mid-Stream".
If you know any political musicians, please forward this idea to them.
Crispy - uh, NO.
Bush last night was Bush, the genuine article. Have you ever seen Bush, on his BEST day, as composed and concise as Kerry was? No? Neither have I.
Perhaps he would fare better in these types of situations if he had any practice at handling questions not of his own choosing. But when's the last time he got any of that type of practice? It's too late now. What we saw last night was basically what we'll see in the remaining debates, if Karl allows Bush to show up for them.
Bush was so off his game there was nothing - NOTHING - to spin.
Lisa Myers was doing her best on tv this morning. Something like this....
"Kerry said the war has cost us 200 billion dollars, but in reality we've only spent 120 billion."
I suppose that was about all she could pull out of her ass.
I'd like to make a suggestion.
When we contact these media outlets, let's remind them that as customers we are all still going to be around AFTER the election. Even if they manage to get their chimp elected for all their greed based reasons, we will remember the bias and we WILL turn them off for good.
Despite what the media believes the Left is a huge market force. We are focused and dedicated.
Perhaps he would fare better in these types of situations if he had any practice at handling questions not of his own choosing.
Ya know, I'd forgotten that the last 2 debates - one town hall, one like last night's - will have one critical factor in common: Bush won't see the questions beforehand.
THank you. I feel much better now.
[unwrings hands and does little happy jig, if not full-on happy dance]
I thought it was marvelous the way Kerry was the first to invoke St. Reagan. Totally stole any thunder the GOPers were hoping to get from the legend of ol' Ronnie.
That Kerry fella sure is crafty!
Lisa Myers has enough ass, she should be able to pull the National Debt out of it.
And, thats the best she could manage?
priceless. i received 6 calls from my miami cuban relatives. all are going to viote for kerry.
This is better than the "bricks and bottles/we're finally on our own" stuff of the 70's.
Guys, don't get cocky.
Hey, don't get us wrong. We know there's work to be done. We're still behind, near as i can tell.
But we're not just being cocky. Cocky is good, btw.
No, we're flinging shit at the chimp (who said irony was dead?), and since the chimp is all image, that's a good thing to do.
Bush is a loser and a wimp who can't handle the pressure. Moreover, he can't handle people knowing he can't handle it. It's a feedback loop: the whole world knows you're a pussy, George.
And his supporters can't handle it either, since their investment is in W.'s image.
George stepped out of his protected little world last night and got his little bitch ass punked. He just can't handle it. He's got nothing.
That's not underestimating him, that's the truth and that's what hurts him most.
Fuck him. We're taking him out.
I listened to Heidi Collins this morning on CNN calmly tell me that in spite of the debate, nothing had changed on the electoral map (going by her gallup poll anyway). The message, chimpy sucked, but he's still gonna win.
FLG,
As we already know, another Bush loss in the next debate, if like this one will change the CW, in terms of how the press filters Bush.
Even though there are only 4 weeks left, if that CW press filter changes, it will affect the electoral map, and Bush will be toast.
"Hard work"
"Hard work"
"It's hard work"
"Hard work"
"Hard work"
"It's hard work"
Someone (Jon Stewart?) needs to splice these all together to a rap beat to make him look like the silly chimp he is.
That's an awful lot of hard work for someone who spends a third of his preznitcy on vacation. Or was he counting clearing brush?
Only Mr. Ensley had the stomach to watch the debate. I "watched" it through the comments here, thank you. Mr. E kept saying "OMG, is this thing being broadcast live all over the world? I am so embarrassed they are seeing this Idiot!!
Just wait for the next debates on domestic issues such as the economy, education, outsourcing and environment. Those are already Kerry strong points, and he is going to pulverize Bush. Then again, if Rove has his wet dream, the rest of the debates will be cancelled. Expect Bush to need a heart procedure like Blair...
As an aside, I have loads of Republican friends who plan to either vote for Kerry or stay home on Election Day.
I've been doing that for years calling and and goofing their wing nut radio shows. I called in awhile back and because hysterical over Michael Jackson's face and another about Mad Cow when I started mooing like a cow. It's great fun.
Robert - I couldn't agree more that that is not enough. I wouldn't even have brought it up but someone upthread was asking of anyone had watched objectively. Mr. Tena watched objectively. He's voting Kerry, but he's not as passionate about all this as I am. So I thought I'd throw that out there.
I think last night made Mr. Tena very very comfortable with his decision to vote for Kerry. Kerry was magnificent. So presidential, so clear.
I sent him another hundred the minute it was over.
because = became
Athenae - agreed. Let's do it for all 3 debates.
Then again, if Rove has his wet dream, the rest of the debates will be cancelled. Expect Bush to need a heart procedure like Blair...
I just looked at CNN and MSNBC. Both are hyping the fact that there are going to be two more Kerry/Bush debates as well as the Edwards/ Cheney one in Cleveland.
I don't think Bush will be able to back out now without getting hammered.
Maybe we should all write to Lisa "the Ho" Myers and remind her that the reason that only $120 billion has been spent instead of $200 billion is that this administration has failed so miserably at rebuilding Iraq that so far they've only managed to spend $500 million of the $87 billion appropriated for reconstruction - money they've been sitting on for over a year now.
Incidentally, this is also the short-form answer to spinners or idiots who insist that "things are improving in Iraq, the media just isn't showing any of the good news." It's hard to explain how they could possibly be "getting better" when we haven't spent any money on fixing anything. In fact, it's impossible.
Then again, if Rove has his wet dream, the rest of the debates will be cancelled. Expect Bush to need a heart procedure like Blair...
I just looked at CNN and MSNBC. Both are hyping the fact that there are going to be two more Kerry/Bush debates as well as the Edwards/ Cheney one in Cleveland.
I don't think Bush will be able to back out now without getting hammered.
Someone needs to point out that Bush actually said last night that our enemies don't care about their dead the way we do, and that is what the difference is between us. In other words, Muslims aren't human beings.
Someone really needs to extract that statement and hammer it. I couldn't believe it when I heard it - I looked at Mr. Tena and asked: "Did he really just say that our "enemies" aren't human?" Mr. Tena said that I heard correctly. Someone somewhere - that's an editorial screaming to be written.
Team Leader e-mail is out with those same talking points.
"The President spoke candidly..."
"John Kerry failed the one test he had to pass last night: he failed to close the credibility gap he has with the American people as his record of troubling contradiction and vacillation spiraled down to incoherence."
"The War on Terror is difficult - there will be good days and bad days, but the war is essential to our safety at home and victory is the only option."
THIS JOB IS HARD! CUT US SOME SLACK!
lol
Mars, bitches!
I called in the other day pretending to be a gun-nut hunkered in my bunker. He asked where I was calling from and I told him from my bunker. I told him it was great except there wasn't a lot of ventilation and I had eaten a lot of beans and was having a hard time breathing. Then I made some fart noises and yelled, "Oh God! The humaaaaaaannnnniiiiityy."
Mars bitches!
I think there is a very good chance that Bush will get worse in the next two debates. Yesterday I read somewhere in these comments the recollection of another TANG pilot who said the reson Bush stopped flying is that he got scared of flying and couldn't perform properly after the fear took hold. I'll be this is part of his personality - panic disorder, made only worse by his drinking past. So unless Rove injects him with some new anti-panic cocktail he'll be stammering and sweating even more in the next debate.
And remember, Kerry gets even stronger at the finish.
Doesn't that wet yer nickers!
I looked at Mr. Tena and asked: "Did he really just say that our "enemies" aren't human?" Mr. Tena said that I heard correctly.
You heard correctly. Mr. Bigvic and I slapped high 5's over it.
In my email to Fox, I also thanked them for the good job on the camera feeds-couldn't resist rubbing it in.
Bush was itchin' and twitchin' like someone put a hoodoo on him.
I heard that too, Tena. I told my wife and our friend Will, that logic wasn't hard to connect. There was an opening of an answer that Bush attempted to give (I'll have to go over the transcript & tape again) that I'm still absolutely stunned at the logic leap he attempted to slide past the American public (let alone the world).
This moron isn't fit to shine shoes for nickles.
Bob Kur wondered what to make of Bush's seemingly angry looks last night. He added the White House is spinning georgie's facial expressions saying he was *bemused* when Kerry was criticizing him.
More like befuddled.
Tena:
WTF were Texans watchin? Surely not the debate I saw. oy.
George was fucking pissed off that someone was actually criticizing him for a change.
And, thats a fact.
More like befuddled.
More like lost in space.
This was a cowardly and cheap stunt on our part, unbefitting of a group of thinking, socially-aware liberals, and totally beneath us to pull such a childish prank...
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!
(Ahem. Sorry. We badly needed One for Us...)
has tom ridge scheduled a press conference yet?
-J.T.
(cut commander codpiece a huss. he hasn't had a vacation in over ten days.)
I loved the shot of Bu$h gulping water when the *Poppy is smarter than your dumb ass is* meme came out of Kerry's mouth.
Killer. Kerry was channeling my wishes in the debate. He hit every mark.
And haloscan ate my earlier comment, but I was as objective as I could possibly be for someone who hates Bush. I suppressed my rage enough that I was able to hear everything each man said clearly, and able to watch for body language, etc. Didn't scream at the television even once.
Here's what I got: Kerry was good, but not brilliant. He let a lot of good opportunities pass right on by. Which means, you get to 70% saying Kerry won simply because Bush was so bad in comparison. Stuttering, incoherent at points and slouching over his podium with the signature Karen Hughes twisted pucker of petulance. He came in with about 5 - 10 words and phrases that he repeated hundreds of time. "Terror" being of course the most prominent. His entire message was "you should be afraid, and remain afraid." I understand why they used it; after all it has worked for them so many times in the past. But here's the rub:
When you have one guy who keeps invoking fear and terror, standing on a stage next to a guy who isn't doing that and who also looks calm and composed, I think the subconcious mind interprets that as "fear" = "the guy who keeps talking about fear." Bush become associated with fear, and being fearful, in the subconscious mind of the viewer. Not exactly what you're aiming for if you're trying to convince people that you have the best leadership qualities.
Final analysis: Kerry didn't so much WIN the debate as Bush LOST it. And because Kerry was good but not brilliant, there's room for him to get even better in the remaining debates. Of course, there's lots of room for improvement on Bush's part, because he could hardly do worse than he did last night. But he was so clearly outclassed that objectively, I would say it's well outside the bounds of possibility to believe that he might actually win or even tie Kerry in either of the debates remaining.
This was a cowardly and cheap stunt on our part,
Piss off, jerk. Do not put me in your loser column.
I'd forgotten that the last 2 debates - one town hall, one like last night's - will have one critical factor in common: Bush won't see the questions beforehand.
Wait a minute... you're saying Bush had seen those questions in advance and was STILL that bad?! Wow. To be fair (cough, choke), he sort of pulled himself together when he talked about Darfur, but lost it again right afterwards. Also, the last thing he said before the 2-minute statements was something about Saddam, but the topic had been North Korea. Kind like a student who's been daydreaming in class.
I'd forgotten that the last 2 debates - one town hall, one like last night's - will have one critical factor in common: Bush won't see the questions beforehand.
Wait a minute... you're saying Bush had seen those questions in advance and was STILL that bad?! Wow. To be fair (cough, choke), he sort of pulled himself together when he talked about Darfur, but lost it again right afterwards. Also, the last thing he said before the 2-minute statements was something about Saddam, but the topic had been North Korea. Kind of like a student who's been daydreaming in class.
Kerry won the debate, hands down. It should be a source of extreme shame for thugs to back a Preznit-wit who failed so miserably last night that it will go down in history as one of the worst debates ever.
I would die of shame to have to spin this for Bu$h.
Actually, Jim Lehrer said in his opening comments on CSPAN that neither candidate had seen the questions.
But Bush can only get worse as the focus of the debates turns away from the one area that's supposed to be his strong suit, and where he got his ass soundly beaten.
Also, don't forget how pathetic Bush's performance was in the final debate in 2000 with the town hall format. Seriously, it was fascinating in a sick and twisted way, like watching someone tease a caged animal with a pointed stick. Sick to watch, but too compelling to turn away. Don't forget that polls following the debate gave it clearly to Gore, GOP and media whore spin over the last 4 years notwithstanding. The town hall format is NOT Bush friendly, and that's what's coming up next.
Mars, bitch!
Anyone else think Bush can't wait to tank it in the other two debates so next January he can go ride his bike in Crawford?
He almost looks like he's as tired of his bullshit as we are.
If you're going to call in and goof wing nut radio, always start out with, "I'm a Bush supporter." That puts the wing nut host off the offensive. Then on into the conversation become racist with your language or extremely homophobic. I called in as an old woman and in a creaky voice let fly with a string of curse words one time. Of course many times they'll bleep you but the audience knows what you said. I don't do that as much as I used to. Was a phase I went through.
Man I can't wait for Edwards/Cheney. Defib is going to think that John Edwards has a microwave in his pocket. Hee hee!
I'm telling you guys - CEOs are just targets for trial lawyers like Kerry and Edwards. Edwards will shred that Dickhead the undead, if FuckYourself doesn't conveniently keel over before the debate can happen.
Capital J-no, they did not get the questions in advance last night. Jim Lehrer announced that in the beginning.
Good job Atrios -
Not to be cocky, but Bush really needed some brain viagra last night.
"Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered..."
HE'S tired after visiting Florida hurricane victims?!!!! Hell, Ivan went right over my house in P'Cola, and I ain't anywhere near as tired as Bush apparently, even though I have been clearing brush here for over a week! Gee, to fly over the destruction in an air-conditioned helicopter with plush seats and piped in music.
A friend of mine has made and is selling "Don't forget Poland" t-shirts. They're hysterical:
http://lennonreport.blogspot.com
I think, in the aftermath of the Commander-in-Chimp's complete fuck-up in last night's debate, the chances for another 'terror' attack before the next debate just rose about 100%, WHICH IS TO SAY: IT'S ALMOST A DEAD FUCKING CERTAINTY...
Getcher Duct tape and visquine HERE!!!
OK, thanks for the correction. But even if Bush hadn't seen the questions, it's not like they weren't the obvious ones. He was so vague and out of his depth it was appalling. I told my kid, "See, that's what happens when you don't develop good study habits -- you look like an idiot in front of millions of people!"
Man I can't wait for Edwards/Cheney. Defib is going to think that John Edwards has a microwave in his pocket. Hee hee!
Best Post Of The Day!
I'm pretty sure that JK got laid last night.
Bush?
not so much
I'm pretty sure that JK got laid last night.
THK showed her man some LOVE.
Bush hasn't gotten laid in 5 years, or since the twins moved out...
Two things I'm noticing:
No Trolls
Anticipation
As for the other debates, I was a little nervous about the moderators. I'm glad Gwendalyn is doing the VP debates and not the big show, but more importantly I think Lehrer set the bar pretty high in terms of strong questions and good balance.
Great work people. More like this.
bigvic - What made you comment that Texans must have watched a different debate than the rest of the country? Did I miss something?
You know what, Lehrer wasn't too bad was he. I think John handled him extremely well. If i'm not mistaken he actually directed the answers to Lehrer. Lehrer was played, and became quite sympathetic to Kerry. Well done. Lehrer started to attack Bush a bit toward the end methinks. Subtle but effective jury manipulation.
get out of here and attack the SCLM.
Two things I'm noticing:
No Trolls
can anybody find out if there are any of those gopteamleaders in zip code 79027?
This was a cowardly and cheap stunt on our part,
Piss off, jerk. Do not put me in your loser column.
bigvic
I am so gratified to know that Our Side has now progressed beyond just intellectual elitists, and now can, additionally, proudly boast the same meat-and-potatoes types who ain't got no nuance and don't do irony. Yay! We lib'ruls have gone mass appeal!
I'm going off to take a piss, now... 
GREAT, This make my day!!!!
Can we do it again?
GREAT, This make my day!!!!
Can we do it again?
I'm sure TMK did show her man some loving last night - but if she didn't - Hey, Big John, I'm over here! I'll be happy to fill in.
I loves me some Big John Kerry. Brains are soooo sexy.
Tena, did you notice that last night Big John looked a little bit like an older version of the late John, Jr.? It was the hair, I think. Bush looked like he had a dead squirrel on his head.
Hmmmmm, I wonder if Crashcart Cheney will tell Edwards to go fuck himself during that debate? Could we get that lucky?
girlfriend - I just noticed that Big John looked smart, presidential, graceful, calm, noble, handsome and did I say smart? Yeah, very very smart.
Shrub looked shrubby, petulant and stoooopid That cracker-barrel accent he was affecting just about did me in and Mr. Tena too. I finally remarked to Mr. Tena that if it got much thicker he was going to pull out a gtrass stalk and put it in a corner of his mouth and hook his thumbs through some suspenders. Talk about hokey-palokey.
Tena--
This "accent" Bush affects is starting to bug me, too.
I've lived in Texas almost all my life, and known a variety of accents, including what I call the "Dallas" accent (think Ross Perot; my father, who grew up in Dallas, sounds quite a bit like him). I've know people with twangs and drawls so thick you'd have to be a native to understand them. And I'm told that, when I talk to my brother, we lapse into a Texas patois that's almost incrompehensible to non-family members, although we don't even notice it.
But what is this accent Bush has? It's not Ann Richards, or Molly Ivins, or Jim Hightower. I've never heard it before, and it seems to come and go with circumstances.
I'm not usually one to worry about such small things, but I'm convinced its as phony as a three-dollar bill. After all, nobody from Yale seems to have called Georgie, "Tex." And while my accent is much more neutral than his, I do wear cowboy boots regularly, and know how to catch, saddle, ride, curry, and feed a horse.
Even worked in the oil fields one summer. Which is probably closer than Bush has ever been to them. Which one of us is more "authentically" Texan?
Crap. That "anonymous" post to Tena was me.
Now I just hope it doesn't double up on me.
You can tell when Bush is going to lapse into HeeHaw speech - he leans over and puts one elbow on the podium and gets that look on his face that says: "I'm a cunning and stupid son of a bitch, like any other old country boy," and the next thing you know, he sounds like Flatt and Scruggs.
Robert - I get a double whammy on accents sometimes in my house - Mr. Tena will lapse slightly into Memphis speak when he's had enough bourbon - he went to school there. Whatever it is that Bush is doing isn't any kind of Texas/southern accent I've ever heard outside of bad TV or grade C movies.
Thanks, Jennifer, for "the signature Karen Hughes twisted pucker of petulance". I've watched that pucker for 4 years now - don't know if W got it from Karen or vicious versa, but it always means "I'm feeling increasingly pissy, I may lose it, so you'd better back off" - which works on W's cheering squad but not on real people.
It's a purely feral look, like the baring of teeth, warning off rivals by projecting anger and loss of self-control. It's somewhat chimpy but really more orangutang. And it always reminds me of the permanent effects of prolonged cocaine abuse ("snippy" is what Gore called him, but I'd use stronger words like arrogant and vicious).
Bush doesn't need psychoanalysis so much as interpretation by a primate behaviorist.
The corporate media are obviously shameless in their promotion of war, their protection of Bush Inc. against numerous serious crimes and lies, and their blatant program of trivializing the news, dumbing down the citizens and undermining democracy.
While they need to be condemned for this, I think the best way to actually change what they're doing is to remind them that most young people and young professionals are now getting their news from The Daily Show (according to a recent poll), and that intelligent people of all ages are looking elsewhere for reliable information and/or are creating their own news sources on the internet.
This hits them in their advertisers' pocketbooks. It also poses the threat--given the demographics of those disgusted with their journalistic performance--of re-regulation (top of my list of causes once we get Bush Inc. out).
This was the gist of my communications to corporate media yesterday. While their motive of greed is complex (not all from advertisting; for instance, conglomerates simultaneously controlling media and directly profiting from the war machine, from corporate tax loopholes and from tax cuts for the rich), still, their media arms can't afford to lose the above demographic.
This message should go out along with criticism of debate coverage, etc.: 1) you're losing the biggest buyers of your advertisers' products (the young, young professionals, and the better educated viewers of all ages), and 2) we're going to break up your monopolies, reinstitute the "equal time" provision, and reclaim our public airwaves, if continue this rightwing gig.
Robert, you have to remember that "Texan" is a second language for Bush. Poppy and Babs spoke pure "NewYorkese" around the house while the Shrub was still a sprout.
Surprised no one logged on and used the name Mr. Janus...first name Hugh.
About the same calibre...
I'm sure TMK did show her man some loving last night
Ooh yes. Big big smooch from THK.
And notice that Bush dragged Jenna and NotJenna up on stage (on a leash?) while the Kerry girls stayed seated and let their dad take the limelight?
Ha Ha.
anon. at 1:32 -
i'm from the northwest and i recognize that accent.
it's the universal "drunk white guy" accent.
i hear it can even be heard in south africa...
Excellent work guys!
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