I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
YEAH!!
and, .... FRIST!
The GOP is gonna regret accepting 3 debates.
Yeah, but it's on Drudge...
Yay. I can finally trade my suicide watch for Bush's.
Woo-hoo, Thank you.
In times like these, I feel we really need to think of the trolls. Imagine what they must be going through...
Nothing left for Bush but the crying. America is BACK.
ya know...although I'm voting for Bush, if Kerry wins that's fine with me. I think he would make a pretty good president. What steams me about a Kerry win, however, is having to listen to shit-heels like Atrios crow about it for 4 years.
[Heh.]
Actually, according to Laura Rozen, who spoke to both GOP and Democratic hacks after the debate, ones who helped negotiate the terms of the debate, the Kerry campaign had a pretty good idea that the rules the GOP was insisting on would show Kerry reasonably well--or that he was confident he could make himself look good working within them. The main cave on the GOP's part was an agreement to three debates.
Rozen said the Dems called the Republican operatives Friday morning and said that they'd be quite willing to settle for two debates, now, if the GOP really, really insisted.
[Heh.]
I mentioned earlier this week Kerry's ability to come back just after a debate (see video of the Kerry/Weld debate when Weld was outpolling him long ago).
I'm delighted to see it unfold again. I've never looked forward to voting for anyone before, but I'm eager to cast my vote for John Kerry.
It can't come soon enough.
I love the smell of blood in the water. It smells like victory!
This is sweeeeet!
I did not find this on Newsweek's site. Given Drudge's rep, how solid is this?
Say goodnight, Smirky O'Chimp.
But seriously, Repugs will pile on Kerry if he wins. It will be twice as bad as what they did to Clinton.
This was announced on MSNBC TV about ten minutes ago, too.
I'm so fucking lonely. I need attention. Maybe I'll go stir up the hornets nest at Atrios. It beats screwing my dog again, and waiting for my Mom to come sleep with me again.
Someone help me!
Did I say that out loud?
Fuck yeah, bitches.
I know it's still close, and we still have work to do, but man, let's just take a minute to feel good.
And yeah, trollies, polls don't mean shit, we know we said that. It just means Kerry's lead is even bigger than we thought.
Wheeeee!
A.
PHOTOS OF THE ELLIPSE ANTI-WAR PROTEST ARE ON DAILYBLURB.BLOGSPOT.COM
Do you think, for one nanosecond that Karl Rove won't think of something nastier than manicures and metrosexualness in the next few weeks?
That man never sleeps (sorry I sound like a grump).
Sixty-six percent say Bush says what he believes, because there certainly is no evidence or proof of his statements otherwise.
Git.
A.
Whoah, why was I anonymous?
Ah, screw it. Suck on it, fascists! You're going to get creamed.
A.
Now if Rupert Murdoch would just be hit by a bolt of lightning, my faith would be restored.
Link found at DailyKos
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/0410.../
nysa013_1.html
Haloscan sucks. It's eating posts like popcorn and it's not retaining names.
Sixty-six percent say Bush says what he believes,
That is NOT a compliment, considering the vacuous inanities that he utters daily. Lemme finish!
And if Drudge reports a 2 pt.lead, then it really must be about 1- pts.
Funny that the American public saw what the so called experts failed to ... that the Senator mopped the floor with the leader of the free world. The pundits couldn't bear to say that C+ Augustus can only keep about 3 lines of information in his head at any one time and repeating those 3 lines over and over (1) doesn't make them true and (2) doesn't fill up 2 minutes of response time.
That should be 10 pts. I got so carried away I could hardly type.
From Newsweek: The Race is On.
I wouldn't get cocky. The Sheeple are fickle and Rove is ruthless. You also know that if this election is close, Bush will tie everything up in the courts for months.
The Rude Pundit may be vastly misinterpreting this part of the debate last night, but did President Bush say that he fucked an Iraq War widow in the White House? Here's Bush, trying to demonstrate how much he cares about American soldiers dying in Iraq: " I think about Missy Johnson. She's a fantastic lady I met in Charlotte, North Carolina. She and her son Brian, they came to see me. Her husband PJ got killed. He‘d been in Afghanistan, went to Iraq. You know, it's hard work to try to love her as best as I can, knowing full well that the decision I made caused her loved one to be in harm's way." So, like, using the Led Zeppelin test of the word "love," it appears that George W. Bush fucked Missy Johnson in the White House in front of her four year-old son. Wow. That's a man who really, really cares about the soldiers. New ad: President Bush: He'll send you to die, he won't attend your funeral, but he'll gently fuck your wife.
Great news! But as someone upthread said, the Rovians haven't finished yet. October surprise?
You think these people are going to give up power and give us back our democracy? Ha!
Let's not get too smug. My friends, we're up against the Corporatists here, and a machine that nearly brought down the last president. Let's not forget what they are capable of doing.
It ain't over 'til it's over.
However, I'm not as depressed and despondent as I was a week ago.
That's going to make it much more difficult to go out and gore Kerry on this one.
Oh, they'll still try.
Pour it on Big John!
Cool.
Look, the bush campaign's major objective for the past 2 months was to paint Kerry as an object of derision and scorn. Someone that people would have a hard time imagining as president.
Kerry destroyed their meme Thursday night by showing who he really is- an intelligent, thoughtful, serious man who has complete command of the issues.
America noticed. I think they finally noticed the chimperor is nekkid too.
Bout time.
I agree no one should get overconfident. But 2 pts ahead is better than any points behind. The internals on the poll are also very encouraging - just a sample: likeability, beats Chimpy 47-41. LIKEABILITY!!!
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6159637/.../site/newsweek/
" What steams me about a Kerry win, however, is having to listen to shit-heels like Atrios crow about it for 4 years." HGT
What steams you, HGT is that you're the shit on our heels, and soon to be scraped off our collective heels November 2nd, 2004.
Eat it RAW, trolls! Your drunken monkey is finished and your neocon dreams of American Empire are crashing all around you, like the empty Cheetos bags around your ankles.
Do you think, for one nanosecond that Karl Rove won't think of something nastier than manicures and metrosexualness in the next few weeks?
Here you go.
Also via Drudge: "NYT KERRY ROBUST HEALTH: X-RAYS SHOW METAL SHRAPNEL FROM WAR; CANCER-FREE; HIV - ..."
Don't they know you must stay the course?
You must conquer your fears by sheer force.
When I dropped my rattle,
And fell from the saddle,
I remounted that crazed hobby horse.
2 more debates and the lead will be even larger.
Actually, Kerry's down by 15 points nationwide.
Yes, that's a fat lie I just made up, but we do have to act still like it were true. Complacency is the last thing we need. Also, we don't have a national election, so a national poll doesn't indicate a whole lot. Numbers coming out of the battleground states would be more useful.
Now, with those caveats... Whoopee!
You think these people are going to give up power and give us back our democracy? Ha!
Exactly right. Remember, the Bush administration is less than concerned with minute details such as seating the president who actually won the presidential election...
I'm with Sue.
Now things get dicey.
Remember this is the team with guys like Rove and Armitage.
This is the team that thinks of a dozen unthinkable things before breakfast- and outsources torture to mercenaries.
We have to be vigilant.
The more overwhelming the majority for Kerry becomes, the more these guys are going to try something big to throw the election.
It now sinks into the media's consciousness that, no matter how hard they spin Rove's meme that Kerry has no agenda, the country realizes that Kerry has an exact agenda that will work.
Now, Bu$hCo moves in the back rooms, like cockroaches behind a wall in a Houston slum, to plan and execute something that will save their sorry asses.
These are the same people that placed Ollie North in Jimmy Carter's attempt to rescue the Iranian hostages 24 years ago.
There is nothing they won't balk at- unless they know they're being watched too carefully to get away with it.
But as we sit here typing, Karl Rowe is going over Teresa Heintz Kerry's life story, lining up people to interview that know any of the Kerry's, looking for hookers that have serviced tall Senators but can't quite remember the face....talking to X-Senate staffers that might be a bit short on cash..whatever it takes...do not get to comfortable. Next, Bush gets a throat virus and has to cancel the next debate...ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN.
Fantastic news, lets hope a few more polls will confirm this shift in momentum. F911 is out on DVD this week, I'm hoping that will help as people who were reluctant to see it earlier now can rent or borrow it. It will be nice if SNL rips Bush tonite too.
The most important thing this week is for Edwards and Kerry to be well prepared for the next debates because a stunning victory can leave you overconfident. Cheney and Bush are going to be fighting for their lives, which will be the first time deferrment boy and his pet chimp ever did such a thing.
There also needs to be an official, hard hitting response to the "Global Test" phrase BC04 are jumping on. The statement I saw today on Kerry's site isn't going to be good enough - Kerry should use it as an oportunity to rehash his strongest points from the debate and explain what he ment in terms undecideds can understand. This is the type of thing that can get out of hand real quick on blogs and talk radio, so let's kill it now.
Stuart said ACORN officials at state headquarters in Tampa were aware of what was going on, and discouraged him from talking about it. He said he was ultimately fired as "a loose cannon."
While Republican registrations were ignored, Stuart said those of convicted felons were eagerly sought, even though by law they are ineligible until they are granted clemency by the state. Stuart set up registration tables outside the Miami police department and Dade County jail.
"We targeted them because ACORN had a goal: 103,000 new registrations from Dade County," Stuart said.
ACORN is a liberal partisan organization and Dade County is heavily Democratic. [Hat tip: Stuart Buck]
If you spot a news story about suspected voter fraud in your part of the country, please send me the link and a brief summary to voterfraud-at-gmail.com. Please click the "read more" button for more reports from Colorado, Michigan and Wisconsin...
Oh my fucking god, Atrios - did you know it's my birthday today? Thank you thank you thank for this - best present I've ever ever gotten.
Let's keep the momentum going folks - hit them while they are down and then hit them some more. And for god's sake, do not let them get up again. Ever.
Wheeeee!!
However, I'm not as depressed and despondent as I was a week ago.
Shaw Kenawe
well then, go do something about it.
don't just sit there feeling happy.
Get up and act on it.
I actually sent emails to Larry King, The Boston Globe, CNN, and my local paper last night,and sent another 20$ to Americans Coming Together!
every little bit helps.
KEEP WORKING.
NO REST UNTIL 03NOV.
P.S. Tena and Athenae, I loved your dual convention blogging @ First Draft.
What steams me about a Kerry win, however, is having to listen to shit-heels like Atrios crow about it for 4 years.
Speaking of heels, you and your ilk are scheduled for a hanging-by the morning of January 21. Be there.
Rozen said the Dems called the Republican operatives Friday morning and said that they'd be quite willing to settle for two debates, now, if the GOP really, really insisted.
Curious. Why would the Kerry people agree to lose a debate? Why should they? Leave it to Bush to back down and make him look like the incompetent coward he his. Scared to debate.
I hope this is not true. The more debates the better for Kerry. What would be the upside? Anyone have a theory?
*
Come on people. Haven't you ever been through an election? Kerry is no more "winning" now than Bush was last week. IGNORE THE POLLS! This is not a sporting event!
Athenae -
Posted on FirstDraft election night but came up as Anonymous!# Anyway, wished I could have talked into the wee hours. I'm still totally high from the debate.
*
CameronTX, heck, if they can find anyone who gave Kerry a bj, his numbers are likely to go up- just like they did for Clinton during the impeachment.
Just me being optimistic. I'm more worried about Diebold central tabulators and voter disenfranchisement.
" What steams me about a Kerry win, however, is having to listen to shit-heels like Atrios crow about it for 4 years." HGT
I don't think you'll have to worry much about that, because we'll be too busy cleaning up the shitpile left behind by bushco and his band of thugs.
I have a feeling that shitpile is like an iceberg. There's a lot more shit festering beneath the surface that we don't yet know about.
Rove's latest coup!
Netcynic has posted the new Michigan absentee ballot.
Tena -
I remembered! Just posted you a big, fat birthday kiss on First Draft........
HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
*
from AP
Brokaw, Jennings Show Support for Rather
Brokaw blasted what he called an attempt to "demonize" CBS and Rather on the Internet, where complaints about the report first surfaced. He said the criticism "goes well beyond any factual information."
"What I think is highly inappropriate is what going on across the Internet, a kind of political jihad ... that is quite outrageous," the NBC anchor said at a panel on which all three men spoke. (etc)
http://tinyurl.com/5xsde
This is just what is needed to break the dam. All those voters who have consistently said we are on the wrong track (by about 52-38 in most polls) can now feel it's OK to switch to Kerry. That's why the polls mean something. They tend to encourage band wagon voting.
Bush and his minions wear the same rose colored glasses regarding what Kerry says as they wear for Iraq.
The tactic is the same for every attack.
Mis-quote mis-represent and mis-lead.
This is why it is essential to take Fox down, or at least immobilize them for the elections. Don't sit on the momentum. Use the momentum to go in for the kill. FOX should be crucified while this story is still fresh.
Shaw Kenawe - well thank the goddess you aren't as depressed as you have been, because I've been frankly worried about you. You really have been down.
The New Report Supporting the Bush Guard Memos Falls Apart.--I have waited to post on this until things are mostly sorted out, but I expect much more to come out today, when Wizbang (who broke this story) provides significant updates.
Several days ago, Associate Professor David Hailey of Utah State University posted a report on the internet that purported to provide evidence for his opinion that the Bush Guard memos were typed. As you know, virtually every competent expert who had come forth concluded that the memos were almost certainly produced on a computer, probably using Times New Roman font in Microsoft Word.
CBS producer Mary Mapes was so impressed by Hailey's report that she sent it out to support the story.
People were amazed that Hailey had come up with a typewriter that could come fairly close to producing text from the memos (but not as close in my opinion as Microsoft Word). Naturally, people were curious what sort of previously unknown typewriter it was that could produce a font that looked like computer output. Strangely, Hailey didn't say in his report.
But as Paul and Kevin at Wizbang (and later other bloggers) began to look at the report, it began to collapse. Wizbang disclosed that the superscript "th" looked very different from the rest of the type. Indeed, it appeared as if it had been floated into place using a program such as PhotoShop.
Then Wizbang discovered what might be the smoking gun: on Hailey's own website, they discovered what appears to be an earlier draft version of the same document that had most of the text that Hailey had produced using the font "Typewriter." But where the superscript was supposed to be, there was only a blank, as if he had not yet floated in the superscript from another font. There were also some numbers missing from the draft document in places where numbers from another font were later floated in.
Once caught, Hailey changed his report online, without indicating that he had changed it. In the new version of the report, he disclosed that he had created his document, not on a typewriter as everyone had supposed, but instead using a computer font. He added this language, confessing for the first time that he had not typed the text supposedly matching the Killian memos:
I was able to recreate most of the defining characteristics using a font called "ITC American Typewriter Condensed." Once I had identified the font family, I recreated the memo using characters from that font family [he is here only hinting that he combined characters from different fonts]. Do not misunderstand figure 4. My addition is not typed. It is replicated based on the characters already in the memo using a font [not true, he used more than one font] from the typewriter family as my template. It does not prove that the memos were typed, or that I can type them. It only proves that I know what the font family is and can reasonably accurately reproduce the characters in the memo. The repro
Don't get cocky.
I was able to recreate most of the defining characteristics using a font called "ITC American Typewriter Condensed." Once I had identified the font family, I recreated the memo using characters from that font family [he is here only hinting that he combined characters from different fonts]. Do not misunderstand figure 4. My addition is not typed. It is replicated based on the characters already in the memo using a font [not true, he used more than one font] from the typewriter family as my template. It does not prove that the memos were typed, or that I can type them. It only proves that I know what the font family is and can reasonably accurately reproduce the characters in the memo. The reproductions in the memo demonstrate that and nothing more.
Going back over the original memo, it appears that he never actually said that he generated his version of the memo on a typewriter, though anyone would certainly get that impression. It was not appropriate for him not to have originally disclosed that he created the memos using computer fonts, when the other experts had claimed that that is precisely how the forgeries were produced.
Further, how can one conclude that the memos were produced on a typewriter and not using a modern computer program such as Microsoft Word if the best that you can do is produce a rough copy using a modern computer program (did Hailey also use Microsoft Word to create his copies, just like the forger)?
Moreover, the font that Hailey disclosed that he used (ITC American Typewriter Condensed) is a poor fit for the memos and (according to comments on Wizbang) was not in existence until 1974, after the memos were written. Indeed, it was such a poor fit that (apparently) Hailey had to get numbers and the superscript "th" from other fonts in the same family and insert them in the documents. Hailey has not been able to produce a typewriter that used ITC American Typewriter Condensed in 1972, because none ever existed.
To see why his font is not a good match, in the three relevant fonts (the Killian font, MS Word Times New Roman, and ITC American Typewriter Condensed) in the headers to this Killian memo compare the following characters: M, R, J, 9, 7, 2. It's pretty obvious that Times New Roman is a much closer match than ITC American Typewriter Condensed.
In light of all this, consider the beginning of Hailey's Report, the Abstract:
ABSTRACT
The following evidence from a forensic examination of the Bush memos indicates that they were typed on a typewriter:
1. The specific font used is from a typewriter family in common use since 1905 and a typewriter capable of producing the spacing has been available since 1944.
Since Hailey was not able to identify the "specific font," instead creating his copy by picking and choosing characters from different fonts (without disclosing that fact in his original report, and only hinting at it in the current report), it would be impossible for him to make this
IGNORE THE POLLS! This is not a sporting event!
This particular poll matters because it will help take the wind out of the sails of the "first debates don't matter" and "it was a tie" and "Bush won on substance" bullshit.
Beltway Boys in on FOX now--I hope this news makes Fred's and Mort's "Who's up/Who's down" list!
Brokaw, Jennings Show Support for Rather
It's about freakin' time. Though Brokaw has been a major disappointment lately. He's looking more and more like a hack to me...
*
Anonymous at 5:48
Thinking of trolls, indeed. Something that funny deserves credit for your wit...how can we give credit to an Anon?
1. The specific font used is from a typewriter family in common use since 1905 and a typewriter capable of producing the spacing has been available since 1944.
Since Hailey was not able to identify the "specific font," instead creating his copy by picking and choosing characters from different fonts (without disclosing that fact in his original report, and only hinting at it in the current report), it would be impossible for him to make this claim. Yet it is the first "fact" in his abstract.
In the report itself, he goes even further:
The font is a common typewriter typeface invented at the beginning of the 20th century and in continuous use until the computer replaced the typewriter. The font's name is "Typewriter." Although the typeface was somewhat modified for civilian communities in the 1960s, it remained commonplace in the military well into the 1970s. In short, the Bush memos were produced in a version of Typewriter commonly used in the military at the time.
This is quite stunning. Hailey has not identified the font used and he used more than one font to create his relatively poor copies, yet he confidently asserts the name of the font and when it was created. Then, without having located any machine that used the main font that he actually used to create his copies (ITC American Typewriter Condensed), he asserts flat out that "the Bush memos were produced in a version of Typewriter commonly used in the military at the time." How could he know this without having identified the font used or found any machine in 1972 that could have produced it? Obviously, he couldn't. Hailey has no substantial basis, scholarly or otherwise, for making these claims.
To say that his report is shoddy scholarship would be an understatement.
There is another reason that I have not posted until now, besides the one mentioned earlier—that is the tone of the criticisms. I do not endorse any claims that have been made that Professor Hailey committed fraud, nor do I think that he should lose his tenure as some have suggested. I believe that Hailey misled people by not disclosing that most of his documents using multiple "Typewriter" fonts were not produced on a typewriter, and that Hailey is still not being fully candid by not disclosing clearly enough that the font he favors was such a poor match that he had to import characters from at least one other font (perhaps from the same "family"). I do not, however, believe that he should be subject to more than the normal punishment for extremely shoddy scholarly work—the disapproval of his peers.
I will continue to give Hailey the benefit of the doubt and assume that in the next few days, he will begin making amends.
UPDATE: Instapundit comments on my post (in which I corrected some of my typos):
COMING NEXT, AN EFFORT TO REHABILITATE PHLOGISTON CHEMISTRY: Jim Lindgren notes that an attempt at demonstrating that CBS's forged documents might have been done on a typewriter has
Jim Lindgren notes that an attempt at demonstrating that CBS's forged documents might have been done on a typewriter has fallen apart.
This is hardly a surprise, of course. But it wouldn't be much of a vindication for CBS even if, through some miracle, the documents turned out to be genuine. It's quite clear now that CBS acted without concern for the genuineness of the documents, and in fact in the teeth of opinions from its own experts that the documents were probably bogus. No amount of after-the-fact lawyering can change that evidence of journalistic bias and ineptitude, though CBS's namecalling of its critics, and general stonewalling, compounds the offense and moves it from negligence to the category of 'reckless disregard."
2D UPDATE: Definitely go read Paul's new description of many of the things he discovered and revealed earlier. It provides the visual evidence that my account lacks, as well as being an account from the people who have owned this story--Wizbang.
Jenny-They were joking when they said that about 2 debates. They're NOT offering Bush an out.
I agree w/everyone,we have to be vigilant. Remember, no matter how badly Bush does in the remaining debates, the SCUM will feel obligated to award at least one win to him, due to their need for phony 'balance'.
True- polls are meaningless. Also true- polls have an effect. More true- GET YOUR ASSES OUT AND VOTE AND GET EVERY FRIEND YOU HAVE TO VOTE (assuming they are not mentally impaired thus voting for Idiot)
Ah, screw it. Suck on it, fascists! You're going to get creamed.
A.
Athenae
*blush* Wow, that there is some POTENT imagery, if you get my drift. Now I gotta go wipe the Drudge off my monitor.
THE TIDE HAS CHANGED!
Fire up the Duck Pit, Gary!
Why are we not getting the message of the day out?
HOW MUCH WILL THE POST DEBATE BOUNCE BE?
Go forth, and propagate! (And if anyone knows how to get in touch with the Rapid Response crew, e-mail me!)
Owen Roth
Drinking Liberally
Damn, that is wonderful news! And two more debates in which Kerry can keep kicking Bush's ass.
Right on time, a spammer troll.
"Netcynic has posted the new Michigan absentee ballot."
Deja vu. I feel like I am trapped in a time loop as people express surprise and dismay as the GOP machine gears up to fix this year's presidential election.
Duncan smoking something other than poles.
Jenny,
2 more debates also gives Bush 2 more chances to correct himself or 2 chances for Kerry to hurt himself - it can happen even though it seems impossible after Thursday night. Likewise, fewer debates makes each one more important and the last thing we want is for Thursday night to become dilluted or overshadowed. I think it's worth the risk to continue, but this may be the calculation.
BIG AUDIENCE: A whopping 62.5 million Americans tuning in to watch Democratic presidential contender John Kerry take on President Bush in Thursday night's first Presidential debate.
that's a lot of people talking around the watercooler friday morning! I think we do have every right to feel more posotive after the debate. Kerry really did us some good!
Karin -
Thanks. It could only have been a joke, but I wasn't sure. I agree that the SCUM will feel a bit of internal pressure to give points to the moron in the next debates, somehow. But I'm not sure they're going to be able to spin well enough. Bush doesn't have the bandwidth to do any bette. He just doesn't have it...
*
Southpaw -
Interesting thoughts. I feel good about our John, though. He can do it because he'll never run out of informed positions and ideas. It's just who he is. So I say: Bring. It. On. !!
*
Rude Pundit: yeah, he said that but nobody will hear it that way.
What I hope that they *will* hear, if you listen to the entire thing, is undiluted Southern Baptist preacher bullshit. "Tried to love him/her" followed up by "prayin' together", that's straight out of the Swaggert/Falwell/Jimmy Baker fund-raising book.
And if they hear it, it will certainly give pause to the McMansion Republicans, because that shit don't fly in the big suburbs outside of the South. We may be SUV-driving assholes, but we spend our money on porn and sports, not fake preachers. These are McCain voters, and you know what he said about Robertson.
I'll continue to take the polls with a grain of salt, but I'm looking forward to the all the news stories about Kerry's 8 point bounce 
Draco
Beltway boys
Down with Bush-Just love it.
When asked about the new Newsweek poll that showed Kerry with a sudden lead President Bush said, "Hey look over there! A terrorist!!!, Be afraid! Be afraid!"
Happy Birthday, Tena! And congrats!
And, Hi, Jenny? Whassup, girlfriend?
I am watching the Beltway Boys and they gave all the polls in the battlegrounds except one, for Bush. No mention of the new Newsweek.
"No amount of after-the-fact lawyering can change that evidence of journalistic bias and ineptitude, though CBS's namecalling of its critics, and general stonewalling, compounds the offense and moves it from negligence to the category of 'reckless disregard."
Why don't you tell us how many times Bush and his mouthpieces have refuted the contextual gist of those memos...
Some folks did a good job writing letters today in the NY Times
This will force Darth RoVader to strike back. Expect a big sludge dump.
And this time, do not be dismayed.
The more crap they loose now, the smaller they become.
Drudge is headlining a Newsweek poll purporting to show that President Bush's lead has completely disappeared in the wake of the drubbing he ostensibly took from John Kerry Thursday night. We knew this was coming; the media story line for the next 30 days is Kerry's comeback, which has the effect of wiping the slate clean and avoiding discussion of how he got behind in the first place.
Is the comeback real? Rasmussen shows the President continuing to enjoy a three-point lead. Among his respondents, 6% say they changed their vote as a result of the debate--3% now voting for Kerry, 2% for Bush, and one percent now undecided.
The Democrats' strategy is to dominate the mainstream media with headlines about Kerry's big win and consequent comeback in the polls; they will portray momentum as being all on their side, with Kerry's many campaign blunders forgotten. This will probably work to some degree. There will be a ripple effect as people read and talk about the debate, and read about Kerry's comeback in the press. This will also set the stage for the next debate, in which the press will portray Bush as on the defensive, and maybe (depending on poll numbers yet to come) on the brink of collapse.
>Jenny-They were joking when they said that about 2 debates.
Yeah, it was like "well, now that your guy is toast we'll do whatever you want, it doesn't matter..."
Just sticking the shiv in, as it were.
It's pretty funny that our troll is so desparate he/she is bringing up voter fraud and digging out the memos that at worst is a recreation (two people have stated that it was pretty much the mood around the office) and quite possibly are real.
Is there gas in the car? Yes, there's gas in the car!
Pedal to metal, John!
filkertom -
Hey you! I'm good. Busy and sooo thrilled that the world got to finally see Big Beautiful John in action...
*
Bush doesn't have the bandwidth to do any better. He just doesn't have it...
Exactly. Which is why the GOP has had to rely on a bullied/bribed media to spin Bush as something other than a spoiled and silly child. However, as this country has had years now to see the depths to which Rove & co will go to retain power, I doubt they will rest easy on Thursday's win.
Anon .. the Rasmussen poll is a three day running average. Today's poll numbers came from Wed, Thurs, and Friday night. So, in that poll only 1/3 of respondents were polled after the debate and none have been polled after the debate reviews. So, the Ras. poll will be more interesting to look at on Monday and Tuesday.
Troll poison - come here, little troll, this will taste so good:
I would like to express my gratitude to John Kerry. I am a veteran of Operation Iraqi Freedom, and I know from experience that being misled by your commander in chief is more devastating than the truth could ever be.
......
Richard Schumacher
Austin, Tex., Oct. 1, 2004
I must be smoking something Laura Bush was selling: Kerry wins the debate and pulls ahead in the polls, Delay gets a reprimand and looks like he might be in trouble, Gay marriage bill gets defeated in the House, and to top it off...Bob Novak slips in the shower and injures his hip...If I were Cheney I would make sure my nitro tablets are closeby...geez. I am really touched.
Say, if we manage to throw out Shrub and the Shrubbery, do you suppose I can find some work? It'd be really nice to have a job again.
From LA Weekly article about major media's refusal to allow F911 advertising.
Bob Wright, now GE’s vice chairman but also NBC’s long-term boss, never tried to hide his Republican partisanship because he never had to. For seemingly eons, his mentor and Immelt’s predecessor, Jack Welch, was a rabid right-winger. Welch used to boast openly about helping turn former liberals Chris Matthews and Tim Russert into neocons
Rove is really going to get nasty now. We haven't seen anything yet. They've spent more than any campaign in history, and Bush has been campaigning nearly non-stop for five weeks and things are back where they were in July. This has got to be driving them nuts.
I'm actually looking forward to the Edwards/Cheney gig on Tuesday.
I also saw Edwards' wife, Elizabeth lead a town hall meeting on TV last night - she is wonderful - smart and extremely personable.
So Jerry, Re: Rove.. No more Mr. Nice Guy???
Jerry: Does it hurt being so fucking stupid?
I'm an old Hippie.
I've spent the entire afternoon listening to various versions (thank you, iTunes) of Dylan's "Masters of War", getting more and more pissed off.
Thanks for some good news. I even forgive you for making me click to Drudge.
Jenny, I have a sinking feeling First Draft may have logged people out while I was doing some maintenance (trying to get the damn search function to work, so far no luck), but I knew it was you. Thanks!
Happy birthday to Tena.
Damn, it's gorgeous here but the weather must suck everywhere else because you're all indoors, blogging.
It's an Eschaton Party!
A.
Anonymous -
Jerry is not stupid! He's a freakin' genius. What's the matter with you, anyway?
*
Praise Fucking Jesus.
Remember 2 days after the NH primary in 2000. Karl hatched the "Reformer With Results" and started the smear campaign.
Now the ratfucker is cornered. Didn't see the GOP-Dem breakdown. Could it be that the lead is bigger without the GOP bias?
Get ready for an orange alert!!
PT, I've been mainlining Floyd. "On The Turning Away."
It's the Kerry campaign theme song, I'm telling you. That or the Ballad of Accounting.
A.
Jenny -- Glad to hear it. I'm busy too, trying to get some songs together for a new download package. And, yeah, wasn't that debate a beautiful thing? I'd buy it on DVD if I could.
Rove better get nasty real quick. Remember, Tuesday night on our side will be one of the nastiest sharks in the ocean, whose target is a guy who is so stereotypically the corporate fat cat that he is almost an Evil Garfield.
Bush got pounded by Kerry. But there's only a little blood in boxing, when we see how Edwards made his millions it will make the Texas Chainsaw massacre look like Finding Nemo.
Athenae -
I posted today, though, and got my name back. So I think it's okay...
Fantastic blog, by the way. I've been commenting rarely these days, have been so busy. But I LOVE FirstDraft, it's so classy, and plan to be hanging out a lot there in the coming days. Thanks!
*
The latest Rasumssen Electoral Predictor tally has it Kerry 238, Bush 296!
Aw, man. Are the trolls poking their noses back out? I just cleaned in here....
Happy birthday to Tena.
Tena? Do I owe you a "happy birthday"? If I hadn't stumbled across [q]'s post, I'd have missed that!
(Thanks, [q]!)
Here's hoping that picture of Bush at the link becomes the defining portrait of Our Dear Leader for the first debate. Sort of like Bush pere checking his watch, or Gore "sighing."
Oh, it's a beautiful day even though it's cloudy and grey and dreary and muggy out there (in Houston). A beautiful day, indeed.
Happy birthday, Tena!
.Bob Novak slips in the shower and injures his hip...
Really? were his poison sacs leaking again? I hear that poisonous slime is quite slippery.
We need to float the idea that Bush gets to be Baseball commissioner if he loses - plant the idea in some non-liberal media - maybe that would sound so appealing to him that he'd just give up
I don't know if it could all be attributed to debate bounce. Kerry has be gaining in the Newsweek poll for two weeks.
I'm in Kansas. I know there's no chance Kerry/Edwards win here. But, I still think my vote counts. The more decisively dubya loses the popular vote, the more difficult it is for the dark side to steal the election if Kerry puts up a 52 - 53 percent.
See, people got a glimpse of the real Bush in the debate, what an utter moron he really is, so they're not going to go back him.
Next debate is on domestic issues. AWOL is a bigger dolt on that score than the Iraq disaster.
What's he gonna do, blame Clinton? Rove would rather eat hot coals than risk a comparison.
The whole media/Robe strategery was to demoralize the Democratic base. That's gone now. Ta ta.
Happy Birthday Tena...
Happy birthday to you
Happy birthday to you
Happy birthday to you
Happy birthday to you
and all that good stuff. 
Fourlegsgood, Very very funny... I was thinking more like "damn the lowly rabble that cannot properly clean my bathroom..curses to her..she will be fired!!"
Happy birthday, Tena.
Kerry also did an interview releasing his medical records and allowed his doctors to be interviewd:
"However, CT scan X-rays taken at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston document that two pieces of metal shrapnel are embedded deep in Mr. Kerry's left thigh, next to the femur, said Dr. Gerald J. Doyle, Mr. Kerry's personal physician in Boston who reviewed the X-rays at the request of this reporter, who is a physician. Doctors treating the wound in 1969 decided to leave the shrapnel in place. "One piece of shrapnel is about the size of a bullet, the other a bit smaller," Dr. Doyle said.
Mr. Kerry said, "I can't tell you I really feel it," but "it's back in here somewhere," as he slapped his thigh."
Read more here in the NYTimes.
Thanks Jenny. Really, this is the best birthday present ever. And we can keep it going - it's only 30 days now.
"Shaw Kenawe - well thank the goddess you aren't as depressed as you have been, because I've been frankly worried about you. You really have been down.--Tena"
Thanks for the thoughts, Tena. Just sent you an email.
Buon compleano! Per cent'anni!
Go Big John!
Hey hopelesspendant, If Bush doesn't do for that, Michael Jackson may be selling Neverland soon....Bush could buy it and ride the choo choo and look at the monkeys that keep reminding him of someone ...but he just isn't sure who that person might be...hmm
Fourlegs -
Ha ha. poison sacs. I just flashed on Wallace Shawn from Princess Bride for a moment there...
*
"However, CT scan X-rays taken at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston document that two pieces of metal shrapnel are embedded deep in Mr. Kerry's left thigh, next to the femur
ah yes, those superficial wounds next to the bone.
Happy Birthday Tena!
Big deal. It's a well known fact that you can recreated that shrapnel on and x-ray with Photoshop. Doesn't prove that Kerry was in Cambodia, now, does it?
Here kitty, kitty!
Fourlegs, I'm w/ Jenny..that is my favorite comment of the day.
""I'm in Kansas. I know there's no chance Kerry/Edwards win here. But, I still think my vote counts. The more decisively dubya loses the popular vote, the more difficult it is for the dark side to steal the election if Kerry puts up a 52 - 53 percent.""
stencil
Good thinking.
And get rid of Sam Brownback!
..
Bush as much as said Thursday night that there is no money to do the things for homeland security that Kerry wants to do, but he's not going to back down on tax cuts for the wealthiest. How is he going to defend this in the domestic issues debate? How is he going to justify a $500 billion deficit or spin the net loss of a million jobs? He's got to show up because nobody would buy any excuses.
I don't see the fuss about the "global test" remark.
Bush seems to be trying to turn it into the "we don't need to get a permission slip" argument again.
But what Bush is failing to mention is that Kerry never said we needed a "permission slip" for Afghanistan, we needed it for Iraq.
But Bush can no longer say that Iraq was an imminent threat to us, so basically, with the whole "global test" bruhaha, Bush is fucked.
I almost wish I didn't have to leave, but I'm going out to dinner.
Have fun, and don't tear the house down partying like it's Nov. 3 and we've won just yet - party like it's October 2 and we are going to win!
Kerry in a fucking Landslide, bitches!
Doctors treating the wound in 1969 decided to leave the shrapnel in place. "One piece of shrapnel is about the size of a bullet, the other a bit smaller" Dr. Doyle said.
Mr. Kerry said, "I can't tell you I really feel it," but "it's back in here somewhere," as he slapped his thigh."
Freepers, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, Bush and Rove are the scummiest of the scum.
Happy birthday to you.
You dumb bitch.
To paraphrase Mr. Bush himself:
Fuck Bush, we're taking him out!
.
Anonymous -
STFU, you foul piece of shit.
*
Happy birthday to you.
You dumb bitch.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 10.02.04 - 7:00 pm | #
Trolls, all class.
Memo to Karen Hughes:
How could you allow your friend, President Bush, to go into a foreign policy debate so unprepared? If he can't stand-up to that weak, liberal, bronzed, flip-flopper, (a.k.a. John Kerry) how can he convince the American people that he can lead them in the war on terror?
Hooray! We win!!
Kerry just took Junior apart at that debate. Remember that for most Americans, this was the first time they really saw Bush as the whiny crybaby he is. Old news for us, but that reality has been filtered out by the media and Bush's handlers. Thursday gave America a cold shot of reality.
Bush is finished. Kerry has his number, and I think he can knock him out at will. You could see the glee on his face yourself; Bush was thouroughly beaten.
Just remember to keep pressing for voter registrations. We can't let up now. Four more weeks! Four more weeks!
Kerry DID NOT say we needed a global test for Iraq or anything, only that if we want help or support and not be in a position to bear 90% of the costs that the world had to be convinced.
His choice of words was not the best, but this will come up Tuesday with Edwards, and he'll knock it right down.
That's after the first question to Cheney about the NYTimes Iraq nuclear lies capacity story
I think its time to practice the politics of personal destruction against Karl Rove. He is going to be behind the shit that is to come. It has to go beyond the blogosphere and have major democrats trash him daily. Many benefits:
1) Point out that Bush is a puppet.
2) Will cause people to discount the attacks to come and every word that comes out of Bush's mouth.
3) Fuck Roves head up as he tries to engineer a comeback
4) God told me that he wants to see slimeballs like him destroyed. It would be a sacred mission.
Like Valerie Plame, he is more than fair game. Destroy the treasonous rat fucker. Make mothers shield their children from him. Make cashiers check to see if his bills are counterfeit. Make him ineligible to manage a middle school student council campaign in the future.
Eat shit, Jenny, you slit.
Excellent news! Yes, we can't get complacent, not for one moment, but the GOP's "Dukakis II" strategy, which was already dying, is now completely wiped out. This is a real morale booster and should put some of the blue states that were wavering back in Kerry's pocket.
Kerry sent out an e-mail the other day that was headed, "I know how much you are counting on me." The man has come through again... now we have exactly 30 days till the election. Let the good news make us work even harder, because hope and optimism have been re-born in the campaign.
when we wake up wednesday morning, it will be 0-2 for Rove's camp. There's no way in hell Dick the Prick can improve things with his own debate. Specially when the other guy is Smashing Ed. Our Ed just has to mention the word "Halliburton" a few times. I can't wait to see the Pricks grimaces.
Kerry got ,from the debate, the respect (or at the very least attention) from the independant voters who started to beleive Rove's shit. Irak is geting worse by the day. The october surprise has to be very huge or Rove's done.
Meanwhile on tv news, since we're out of hurricanes this week-end, let's cover a volcano!
Happy Birthday Tena!
Dont forget Saturday Night Live tonite hosted by dem poster boy ben affleck
i'm off to see the franz Ferdinant
Bonne soirée
Happy b'day, Tena.
Hey Fremlin, howya doin'? Are we gonna hafta get Atrios to call your mommy?
The new GOP spin is:
- Kerry Doctrine
- Global Test
KE04 already responded to this with a TV ad (GJ Rapid Response Teams), but watch out for the GOP lackies on talk shows, and of course the FOX offensive tomorrow.
Brace yourself and attack back. Remember.
- Angry Bush
- Out of touch
- Misleader
- Credibility Gap
Say it like a choir now. It's not over yet.
Tangerine -
Yes. SNL should be way amusing tonight. They always do great stuff with debates.
*
Bush--the man who can't seem to tell bin Laden and Hussein apart. I loved it Thursday night when he said, "I KNOW it was bin Laden who attacked America." Well, we don't know that you know that, buddy, when you go around saying, "We had to invade because Hussein wouldn't let the inspectors back in..." WHAT PLANET ARE YOU LIVING ON???????
Since Bush´s domestic record is hardly more defensible than his one in foreign affairs, the key strategic problem facing Kerry is how much they should humiliate the president in the remaining debates. There is a delicate balance.
Duncan, are you drinking again?
How come billionaires for Bush are Bush "Supporters"? -Notice quotation
But Communists for Kerry are just Kerry supporters?- Notice no quotation
Same artice--Fair and Balanced?
Of course, there were some Kerry supporters in attendance who had no doubts whatever about their candidate.
"We're trying to get Comrade Kerry elected and get that capitalist enabler George Bush out of office," said 17-year-old Komoselutes Rob of Communists for Kerry.
------------------------------------
There should have been some advertising, some commercials to generate money for the U.S.A.," said Hugh G. Monument, VII of Billionaires for Bush.
The Bush "supporter" extolled the president's virtues — "What I love about Bush is his money, and his ability to make more money" — but also said that he had increased his ketchup intake as a nod to Kerry and his wife, Teresa.
No Novak on Capital Gang... soo sad..out until at least november 3td?
>I think its time to practice the politics of personal destruction against Karl Rove<
That's a good point. After all the enemies Rove has made what hasn't he been a big target?
Happy Birthday Tena!
___
I'm with whomever suggested a new Orange alert... oy.
Buckle up, kids, it's gonna be a bumpy ride the next four weeks.
""Since Bush´s domestic record is hardly more defensible than his one in foreign affairs, the key strategic problem facing Kerry is how much they should humiliate the president in the remaining debates. There is a delicate balance.""
Bob H
just let the facts speak for themselves.
..
According to that Newsweek poll article 38% currently belive that Bush will reinstate the draft if he wins (vs. 18% for Kerry). "Bush will reinstate the draft" needs to be talked, pamphleted, memed up in battleground states with late voter registration, (Like Wisconsin where you can register on the day of the election). I mean geez, this threat has a lot more basis in fact than those freepin' bible-ban fliers.
when we wake up wednesday morning, it will be 0-2 for Rove's camp.
I, for one, can't wait to see the Golden Boy square off against Jabba the Hutt.
I was thinking the exact same thing about the "global test" that Bush was getting on Kerry about after the debates. Angry Bear pointed it out for me.
Who Would Give Foreigners a Veto Over Our National Security?
Via a reader, Mark Kleiman makes a great point:
A reader writes:
I believe I heard Bush assure China a veto over our security vis-a-vis North Korea (can't talk to them if China doesn't want us to...we need China...etc). I thought he wasn't going to give foreigners this power?
Good point.
Of course, Mr. Bush might respond that there are some things that can only be done with the help of other nations, and in those cases the opinions of the leaders of those nations, and even of their citizens, need to be reckoned with if we are to accomplish our goals in the world.
But that's precisely the "global test" Mr. Bush's supporters are lambasting Mr. Kerry for considering.
AB
http://angrybear.blogspot.com/20...-veto-
over.html
It's all about the contradcictions, stupid when someone else is doing your thinking for you.
happy birthday tena!
P T.. try a little watchtower. it will give you the best of both.
>I, for one, can't wait to see the Golden Boy square off against Jabba the Hutt<
Good one.
When I see Edwards for some reason I hear Mack The Knife in my head.
GLEE YES; COMPLACENY NO, the rovian hydra has many evil heads and only knows one way of winning - attack- we must be viligent in countering the disinformation filth that is surely coming...
Happy birthday to me...
I'm an old maid Texas shut in ...
And I think Molly Ivins is funny.
oooh, oooh, oooh, ooh, woooooHHHHHHHHH!
Ali, Boomaye! Ha ha. Rove got ropadopped. But gooooood. AWOL thought he was walking into an ice cream parlor, and instead, he stepped into the Rumble in the Vietnam Jungle, with two more rounds, count em, two more heavy, heavy rounds to go, and no gas left in the tank, Chimp running on empty.
Pout Boy, you're histoire, beaucoup!
Verstehen sie?
Ha ha. Chumps stuck with a Chimp.
Ha ha. Droll.
Happy Birthday, Tena
Don't fergit how perty John Edwards is. Not only is he going to cause CrashKart
palpatations, but he is going to make women swoon while he does it.
YEEEEHAAAAAAAW
And Kay if you're around this from another thread might be the funniest thing I have read about the debate. thanks for sharing
About 40 minutes in Thursday night, my husband said, "This is why Andy wouldn't give Barney the bullets."
Kerry/Edwards In A LANDSLIDE!!
I've got the tremors, myself--one of Chimpy's demons, Sec. against the Interior Gail Norton, is on TV in Portland pretending she knows stuff about the 'cano. Polls are great, but we gotta push this mofo straight to the wall. SO much will change when his minions scuttle out of D.C. behind him.
Eleanor Clift says "The heat is on Dick".
If you though W's performance went over like a lead balloon, wait till tuesday. All Edwards needs to do is remind him he's still supposed to be looking for those WMD and Al Quaeda connections.
Snarl Dick Snarl
Don't wilt Dick.
When I see Edwards for some reason I hear Mack The Knife in my head.
You read my mind! I'm sitting here humming-
Oh, the shark has pretty teeth dear
And he shows them pearly white
vivian -- I wish, but the footwasher doesn't have a known opponent.
My hope in the Kansas GOPers totally implode. The flat-earthers have wrested control of the party with primary victories at the precinct level. Moderate repugs got their asses kicked for state legislative and school board seats (yes, they're promising to revisit the evolution fiasco). I know fed up moderates ready to leave the party for good, much to the glee of the fundies.
Eleanor Clift: now there's a brilliant light. Heh.
"BUSH: I don't think we want to get to how he's going to pay for all these promises. It's like a huge tax gap. Anyway, that's for another debate."
This is the President's reply to a list of things to be done to increase homeland security.
It's too expensive, we can't afford it. We got a deficit and we have to be careful how we spend our money.
The ultimate value of the Bush presidency: the tax cut. Trumps everything, including inspecting ship containers.
I think this is a point to hammer on. Bush spends our security on war and tax cuts.
Hey Fremlin, howya doin'? Are we gonna hafta get Atrios to call your mommy?
Dang Carpy, you are fast! I was just about to say "Hey, it's Foaming Fremlin and his Misogynistic Muppetry!"
And also to respond to the troll earlier who continues to flail against CBS... Struggle all you want, fool, but Kerry's going to win, and once Bush becomes history, History is going to be able to start truly passing judgement; And it'll judge Bush as worse than Nixon. Remember him? Won re-election of course, but was revealed by History to be a liar, a crook, paranoid, a drunkard, vulgar... And Bush is in for the same revelations. Flail and struggle trolls, but the tide of History is coming in, and you and your ape-god are going to get swept away by it.
I live by myself
And the DNC is my religion
Happy Birthday
To me
How much, if any, of Thursday night's presidential debate between Bush and Kerry did you happen to watch?
Don't know 0% 1%
WTF? So 1% don't know if they watched it in the Newsweek poll?
I feel a headache coming on.
happy B-day Tena,
if you get 1/2 as well
as you give-
you will do fine!
I live by myself
And the DNC is my religion
Happy Birthday
To me
And Atrios's Idiot Amen Corner
Is My
Fucked Up Church
Amen
It’s great to see Kerry getting some momentum out of the debates, he did well and deserves it. He suffered under the shadow of that Swiftie crap for too long.
I’m really looking forward to seeing Cheney/Edwards on Tuesday. That should be interesting. I suspect that Cheney will be VERY aggressive, that tends to be his style, I’ve not seen Edwards on the attack and I wonder how he will do against Cheney.
CNN-Gallup-Bush 49 Kerry 42
Not really, but wouldn't be surprised.
They will probably now sample 70% repubs.
Penitent Thief -- That song runs through my head every day.
>I think its time to practice the politics of personal destruction against Karl Rove<
Anonymous-
Many benefits. It couldn't happen to a nicer guy. He made people discount Kerry with the flip-flopping charges. Gore with the "truth stretching" charges. Forget the puppet. Trash the puppeteer. Have swing voters watch the news and say "What did the slimeball tell him to say today?"
Have Dem's suggest Rove debate rather than Bush. Give George a break to do "The Hard Work"
Forever
And ever
And ever
Amen
Kerry, typically characterized as aloof and out of touch by his opponents, came across as more personally likeable than Bush (47 percent to the president’s 41 percent).
I'd like to have a beer with John.
See, Dick the Prick will try the whole "lawyers are scum" thing vs Edward Skywalker, but all Ed has to say back is "Halliburton", delicious!
I have alot confindence in big john. This debate should have been by the media whores own admission Bush's strongest issue, it is where he was miles ahead of kerry in the bullshit poles. But like Newsweek said, bush's lead has evaporated. This was the first time most folks had the opportunity to see Kerry without some whore describing what he said or did. It finally occured to most americans what kerry supporters already knew, Bush is a fucking idiot not capable of leading a shit house let alone the most powerful country in the world.
What a collection of fucking morons.
"Yes, I am a trial lawyer, I'm used to being all you have against massive corporate pricks like Warbucks here."
It's going to be a thing of beauty to watch Edwards take the scalpel to Cheney. If you thought Bush looked petulant, wait to you see Cheney.
Cheney is the typical corporate CEO I have worked for that undresses anybody that *dares* to disagree with their assessment of a situation. Edwards is going to play Cheney for the blustering arrogant megalomaniac fool he is.
The ultimate new Kerry bumpersticker.
"I'd love to have a beer with Big John"
Thank you, John Kerry. And, the October surprise has to be a phony "terrorists caught by Bush administration before chemical attack in Ohio" story (or Fla. or any other swing state) with a perp walk of Muslims.
Keep working hard because the next month is going to be brutal. We can all be confident that JK is working very hard for us.
What a collection of fucking morons.
The Neo-Cons? The DLC? The Third International? The government of Paraguay? The Atrios commenters-variations: Regulars? Trolls? Newcomers? Porn Stars? The VH1 mangerial staff? Morons.org?
Edwards is Dan Quayle light, you morons.
Ha ha. Freeper dolts left holding their wee wee in public, for shame, for shame, after the Boy Idiot crapped all over America.
Kerry ropadopped Rove the Genius, and now they're have to defend Mr. Idiot Presidente for Two More Months. What a sad sad fate. Uphill battle time. Two more spankings for all to see the Pouting Moron in action.
Ha ha. Sweeeeet.
What a collection of fucking morons.
The Neo-Cons? The DLC? The Third International? The government of Paraguay? The Atrios commenters-variations: Regulars? Trolls? Newcomers? Porn Stars? The VH1 mangerial staff? Morons.org?
YOUR ANSWER:
DUNCAN AND HIS DIMWITTED DISCIPLES.
Bitter trolls follow better polls. Read it and weep, anon. SCOREBOARD
"Yes, I am a lawyer. I made my career suing corrupt corporations that pollute our environment and injure people with defected products, corrupt corporations like Halliburton, which, by the way, you still earn $100,000 from every year in deferred payments, Dick."
STENCIL: HOPE SENATOR "I FUCK 'EM RICH" KERRY KEEPS HIS DAY JOB. WAIT A SECOND, WHAT IS HIS DAY JOB?
We all watched that debate - We all know when Kerry said gloabal standards he meant that if the US said there are WMD's and an imminent threat then there are WMD's and an imminent threat - the standard is truthfulness
Bush as much as said Thursday night that there is no money to do the things for homeland security that Kerry wants to do, but he's not going to back down on tax cuts for the wealthiest.
The Dems HAVE to make an ad out of that. George W. Bush puts the interests of millionaires and corporations ahead of the nation's security.
Go take the Newsweek on-line poll.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6144.../site/newsweek/
I hope Edwards is getting coached by Patrick Leahy. He knows which buttons to push.
Yeah, I just like hearing "Eleanor Clift", "heat" and "Dick" all in one sentence.
here's a good one my friend pointed out to me:
kak·is·toc·ra·cy (kk-stkr-s, käk-)
n. pl. kak·is·toc·ra·cies
Government by the least qualified or most unprincipled citizens.
--sounds about right to me
The right's answer to F9/11-The passion of the Bush
"Will George W. Bush be allowed to finish the battle against the forces of evil that threaten our very existence?" Such is the portentous question posed at the film's conclusion by its narrator, the religious broadcaster Janet Parshall, beloved by some for her ecumenical generosity in inviting Jews for Jesus onto her radio show during the High Holidays. Anyone who stands in the way of Mr. Bush completing his godly battle, of course, is a heretic. Facts on the ground in Iraq don't matter. Rational arguments mustered in presidential debates don't matter. Logic of any kind is a nonstarter. The president - who after 9/11 called the war on terrorism a "crusade," until protests forced the White House to backpedal - is divine.
OT
How often do you get to say "Tutu is the motherfucking man"?
Actually kind of often; it depends on the pun, you know, like Holden's outfit.
kak·is·toc·ra·cy (kk-stkr-s, käk-)
n. pl. kak·is·toc·ra·cies
Yeah, it sounds like the massive voter fraud the Dems are trying to pull off in the swing states.
What a collection of fucking morons.
Anonymous
You looking at your mom's "customers", 'nony?
Tena, happy b'day!
* * *
I am watching Capitol Gang and seeing Margaret Carlson being semi-reasonable in comparison to the rest of the people on that panel. Arrgh. How could anyone conclude that the debate was anything but a devastating disaster for Chimpy??
I also refuse to get too excited about any polls for numerous reasons, but the numbers right now are nice to have in the public eye.
Chris/tx, funny story about my sponsor last night...he flipped out after Kerry shelled Bush in the debate...said some insane shit.
"Jews for Jesus on high holidays"--that's positively hostile, that's like making a point of speaking to "rescued" converts from Islam on Muslim holidays or "cured" homosexuals on Pride. Ken & Yuri are better Jews than those fucks.
Wow, the troll crawled out from under his rock, saw the bright light of reality, and went crazy.
Sad, really.
anon - not as massive as the delusions you live within. must be something in the repug water supply.
Yeah, it sounds like the massive voter fraud the Dems are trying to pull off in the swing states.
"The niggers are registering to vote and they're coming to rape our white women! Help us, Karl, help us!"
OTish:
My wife just told me that she was talking about the debates with her cow-orkers -- two Republicans -- and they repeated verbatim not just the GOP spin point that Chimpy was 'tired' after sharing his love with all those hurricane victims, but also FAUX's fake story about Kerry getting a manicure on the morning of the debate.
Jeebus. The right-wing spin machine truly is jet-powered. You just know that within a couple of days, the 'manicure' story will be repeated as truth across the wingnut hordes, and when you point out that Cameron made up the quotes and FAUX apologised for them, they'll say, 'well, it sounds like it could be true, doesn't it?'
Sheesh. 'It's true because it's fact-esque.'
the trolls cant deal with reality. its too much "hard work" for them. lying is simple if you're a born liar.
Hey guys come down the mountain , the main goal is win the election . The Republican will full out all the tricks , so keep your eyes open .
Anonymous, Dan Quayle wasn't hated for being young-looking, he was hated for being incredibly stupid and for demonstrating this as often as possible. One of Howard Stern's best clip sequences is just every major sound bite from Quayle in a row. There is absolutly nothing in Edwards' record that comes close to Quayle's meandering about going forward into the future or wasting minds. It is mind-blowingly inane, the rut of dishonesty and false to suggest that Edwards is comparable to Quayle let alone worse than him.
I am watching Capitol Gang and seeing Margaret Carlson being semi-reasonable in comparison to the rest of the people on that panel
That's because Novak is 'resting', I presume?
And anony, these fucking morons - sweet words coming from you- support John Kerry, the 44th President of the United States.
I'm being name-thefted! I'm being name-thefted!
anon in nc - that's the main difference I see between us and the smirkloyaltists. they dont think - they'd rather absorb their info directly from roves teat and spew it about without ever digesting it. too much 'hard work' for them to actually use the little that god gave them. friggin robots
but also FAUX's fake story about Kerry getting a manicure on the morning of the debate.
I knew that was going to happen.
Thank you whore, Carl Cameron.
I am watching Capitol Gang and seeing Margaret Carlson being semi-reasonable in comparison to the rest of the people on that panel
Actually, Al Hunt said that Kerry wiped the floor up with the Chimp. Ken Melhman, Bush's mouthpiece yammered over the usual "Bush is strong and resolute; Kerry flip flops, blah, blah, blah".
GO JOHN GO!!
Kerry leads.
Heh hehe heh .
............
Perhaps Mr. Kerry can mention this:
"My opponent has made much of my choice of words 'global test' in the last debate.
Let me dumb it down for my opponent.
What the United States does and what the United States says to the rest of the world must pass the smell test.
Surprise! Surprise! Republican HQ in Seattle report a break in, blame it on the Dems, although the Police report that their currently appears to be no political motivation. Fox News, of course, has the story:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/
0,2...,134278,00.html
Gee, we wouldn't know any strategists in the Bush campaign that has a history of falsifying espionage activities so that they can blame them on their opponent, do we? I mean, it's just HAS to be a coincidence that Rove bugged his own office to create a scandal to help one candidate and Gore was sent a Bush debate prep tape in 2000 (as if there is any big mystery in what Bush will say in response to any question)
Thank you whore, Carl Cameron.
Kerry's team really does have to remove his credentials now. FAUX may make a big fuss about it, but he's a fucking disinformation tool.
OK...how do uou italicize (open and close) and embolden (open and close)?
I's like to post BUSH SUCKS in big bold letters...
This poll is important to give Dem's the feeling of Mo' - but don't forget this is an odd year - more new voter registrations than ever before - cell phones - The Rove/Bush/Cheney spin team - The polls really don't matter
Just continue the good fight against the lies and GOTV!
- Mr. Bush's lie today saying Kerry would allow France to veto American foreign policy decisions - This is plainly ridiculous - Are they so bereft of positive reasons to vote for Bush/Cheney that they have to stoop to the absurd?
I was expecting some nasty spin - I was not quite ready for this absurd campaign rhetoric (In a past life the Spanish Inquisition caught me with my pants down)
LOL, well not to get too excited - no sense in getting your hopes up only to be crushed by reality:
"Election 2004
Date Bush Kerry
Oct 1 48.6 45.6
Saturday October 02, 2004--The latest Rasmussen Reports Presidential Tracking Poll shows President George W. Bush with 49% of the vote and Senator John Kerry with 46%.
The Rasmussen Reports Electoral College projections now show the President ahead 213-169."
I read it wrong with the pundits, I don’t think they expect anything from Unka Karl, they are just positioning themselves so that they have at least marginal creds by the time President Kerry takes office .
..............
Bushie locked himself in too tight and there is nuffin he can do about it now.
.............
Voter regs up, more Dem than Rep by all accounts .
............
Hey, anony, is your uncontrollable flatulence annoying the neighbors?
Steve Thompson, you're the one being crushed by reality.
So long, georgie. We'll never forgive you for trashing our country.
Worst. President. Ever.
Ever.
ok, i know this if sort of off topic, but it explains who is left voting for the shrubby prince:
Half of All Americans Are Brain Dead
By Carla Binion
Online Journal Contributing Editor
October 2, 2004—Scientists now believe that roughly half of all Americans today are brain dead. Well, not technically, but functionally brain dead.
Interestingly, the average BDA (Brain Dead American) might also be an MBA or even an MD. Yes, scientists show an individual can be functionally brain dead and still hold a college degree. Individuals with BDA in their DNA may not always drool or pronounce "nuclear" as "nukyooler," but, to a person, they can't distinguish Saddam Hussein from Osama bin Laden. Not surprisingly, each BDA we interviewed plans to vote for George W. Bush.
Cheney is a bully and evil --probably won't stand up against the all American charm of Mr. Edwards -
For the theater alone -this debate will be worth having to watch anything about the presidential campaign this year.
Didn’t Cameron put some fake quotes up somewhere?
..............
Why does this guy still have his job?
...............
what creds does he have left?
................
Maybe he should work on the comedy channel.
................
Yeah but CBS reports that “Experts” call the debate a draw.
Amazing what we’re up against.
So if we read Steve Thompson right, as long as the election is not held on election day and involving real Americans, it's a lock for Bush!
Steve Thompson: Rasmussen's tracker was done on Wed, Thu, Fri night, so only one third of the sample was post-debate. Judging from the Oct 1 numbers, the trend is towards Kerry,
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, TENA!
Smoke THIS, Duncan.
I think some pundits want to try and preserve the thugnik agenda and a few are still looking for ***issue*** items to polarize the debate in their boy’s favor.
................
Rasmussen puts out three day averages; two thirds of their latest numbers are pre-debate.
Nice try though, testiclehead.
I have a theory. Interestingly enough the internals for the Newsweek poll http://tinyurl.com/45hoa show that they've somewhat corrected their usual oversampling of Republicans:
345 Republicans (plus or minus 6)
364 Democrats (plus or minus 6)
278 Independents (plus or minus 7)
I think Kerry has been tied or slightly ahead the entire time. The recent polls have deliberately been skewed to favor Bush.
So why the change? Perhaps, watching a poised, well-informed Kerry next to Mr.Twitchy McPoutypants, reminded the media of what it was like to have a REAL president. You know, one who has regular press conferences and can answer difficult questions coherently and -- this is key -- graciously; not angrily and defensively or worse dismissively.
Maybe they remembered when being a white house reporter was fun and exciting and you actually had something to write about at the end of the day. Maybe after Thursday they all decided they wanted their old jobs back and they know Kerry is the one who can do it.
Just a theory....
Bush is by far a better debater than Kerry and also more knowledgable on the issues and he's our WAR president.
However, the main finding is that whatever Bushie says, whenever he opens his mouth, particularly when he swipes against Kerry is that people figure 3 things:
- he still doesn’t get it
- he will continue the bog down
- he will continue the isolation.
.............
Kerry surge will continue, Bushie thud will continue.
.............
he heh hehhhe heh .
.............
All of you who have seen "Outfoxed", remember Carl Cameron in it. His wife campaigned for Bush, and in normal news organizations that is "verbotin" Carl and Bushie were very chummy. I have been wondering why he was picked to cover Kerry in this campaign. He always looks and sounds like he smells something when he does reports on Kerry.
When Jesus comes, the trolls will dissappear leaving only their false teeth and clothing behind (as well as their keys to the Y).
The debate win came just as the movie Going Up River came out. The Swift Boat Veterans for Bush are dead in the water. You can't keep a good man down.
Old Hat - That's some funny shit. Hope you kept the schadenfreude to yourself. Played golf yesterday with my foursome, the other three (all Bush supporters) were strangely quite about the debate, hmmm.
Rasmussen's numbers are within the MOE, so who cares. The electoral vote breakdown is meaningless without a state-by-state analysis, throwing out every state whose numbers are within the MOE. And all that is assuming that Rasmussen's methodology is clean. Thursday night, Bush showed the whole world, including al Qaeda, what a weak, ineffectual man he is. I hear that after the debate bin Laden signed up as a GOP team leader.
PHOTOS OF THE ANTI-WAR PROTEST AT THE ELLIPSE!
>>>DAILYBLURB.BLOGSPOT.COM
Rasmussen puts out three day averages; two thirds of their latest numbers are pre-debate.
Nice try though, testiclehead.
Loverly.
I suck Dick just for the fun of it.
Joe, standa’s link from another thread tells the story state by state on the debate :
More of the folks in more of the states say Kerry won over Bush.
..........
.
...........
I don't think this lead is entirely explained by the debate.
It started on Sept. 30, so at least some of the people polled probably hadn't seen the debate...in fact, most Americans didn't see it. Even those that did see it would probably not change their minds immediately based on one good performance from K.
I think Kerry had been slowly trending upward for the past couple of weeks. I bet Kerry was already ahead before the debate. Once people get a chance to really absorb the debate, I bet more people will make up their minds and he'll get another bump.
The trolls must love an all-American website like Atrios', as opposed to the fascist, un-American Free Republic, where dissenters are immediately banned and only worship of Dear Leader is allowed.
F*#@ing Nazis, go try to take over another country.
My wife just told me that she was talking about the debates with her cow-orkers -- two Republicans -- and they repeated verbatim not just the GOP spin point that Chimpy was 'tired' after sharing his love with all those hurricane victims, but also FAUX's fake story about Kerry getting a manicure on the morning of the debate.
I have a couple of colleagues like that. I've found the best response is to burst out laughing in a really good-natured way, and repeat 'tired,' acting as if they had told a big wing-nut joke. Thus they slink off feeling like the putz they really are, but can't pin you with anything. Hey! (arms out, palms up, innocent facial expression) I thought it was a joke! Who would take that excuse seriously?
-
Carl Cameron... always looks and sounds like he smells something when he does reports on Kerry.
That's because it smells like...
VICTORY!
We've come across Rethugs happy about the debate, but they were college kids who stare blankly when you point out that they are of draft or at least military age, and were just talking about how "real" Eminem's "lyrics" are.
ZuZu's Petals
< i> Italicised text here< /i>
Italicised text here
< b>BUSH SUCKS< /b>
BUSH SUCKS
remove the space in fron of the I and b in the first tag, and the space before the / in the closing tag.
Kerry/Edwards In A LANDSLIDE!!
I think the freepers were the most shocked and surprised by the yammering Bushie debacle .
............
OK...how do uou italicize (open and close) and embolden (open and close)?
I's like to post BUSH SUCKS in big bold letters...
ZuZu's Petals
* * *
You can't change the pt. size, but you can do this:
BUSH SUCKS or BUSH SUCKS
The opening tag for ital is
<i>
Closing for ital is
</i>
Same with bold -- just substitute a b for the i.
(Hoping I didn't screw that up)
Steve, Rasmussen is a Republican polling outfit and we all know how credible Repub pollsters are (I'll spell it out for you, Steve - "Frank Luntz").
But for the sake of argument, Steve, please explain how a "popular war-time preznit" can't even pull above 50 percent in the polls...
And why is Bush's negative rating above 50 percent?
Face it, Steve. Bush is floundering.
As I watched the debate Chimpys face
kept morphing to Alfred E Newman.
I googled AEN and got this
http://www.mindspring.com/~mike....cks/
AEBush.html
I'm so proud of my limrick
There once was a Prez named Bush
Whos head was stuck in his tush
He asked really nice
For Cheny's advice
Dick said you dummy just push
Reminds me of Boris Badunov (apologies to Pushkin and Bullwinkle)...
"Unfair to local 12...Villains, Thieves and Scoundrels Union!"
Raskolnikov! Cursed Moose and Squirrel! Where is Fearless Leader?
Old Hat - That's some funny shit. Hope you kept the schadenfreude to yourself.
He brought himself to admit that Kerry "probably" was a B+ and Bush was a "solid" C. Then he naturally started repeating his Ed Gillespie e-mail about the "global test" and got visably agitated.
"Fuck that," he said, getting redder in the face, "we're America, we determine the rules. John Kerry," he was replacing Bush's stump speech with what Kerry actually said at this point, "said that we have to ask France for a permission slip to defend ourselves. Fuck that! Fuck that! We're America! We nuke -- I mean, we bomb who we want, when we want! Fuck that UN, global test bullshit!"
That's verbatim, even the part about "nuking" who "we want."
And all I could do was try and not laugh as I watched this Freeper's enormous Suburban White Guy Ego deflate after his Real American Cowboy got manhandled by the Effete French Elitist.
Schadenfreude rocks.
Phredd,
Brilliant response to that particular talking point and applicable to GOP talking points in general. Brilliant
Kerry/Edwards In A LANDSLIDE!!
I suck
BUSH SUCKS
Putting it all together.
Kerry/Edwards In A LANDSLIDE!!
Isolation and hubris will prove to be a be a deadly cocktail for Bush/Cheney. Lies and arrogance only stretch as far as your ass kissing yes men.
BUSH SUCKS!!
If Kerry wins....
I predict that Grover Norquist will be lobbying Congress in 20 years to rename half of the country "Bush".
BushSucks
To: G.W. "Belshazzar" Bush
Re: Mene Mene Tekel Peres
Darius the Mede
Bluzman- ()()()(applause!)
KERRY SAYS ALL THREAT ASSESMENTS MUST BE MARKED WITH NUMBER 2 PENCIL.
YAY!! Thanks guys!!
George Bush Still Misleading Quicktime Video 2.5MB from MoveOn Pac
Here is another version with inspiration and title via The Talent Show
The Sound of One Bush Flopping 900K Quicktime Video
Silleigh,
It fnever occured to me to use asci codes to cough up halo-teaching-tags.
Thanks for the heads up.
</i>
</b>
Kerry/Edwards In A LANDSLIDE!!
ZuZu Rocks
"I live by myself
And the DNC is my religion
Happy Birthday
To me
And Atrios's Idiot Amen Corner
Is My
Fucked Up Church
Amen
Anonymous"
I really love watching the trolls explode--their veins popping purple in their pencil necks; their eyes bulging at the shocking reality.
Heh.
That was me. Heh
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6159.../site/newsweek/
Yay!
Its a beautiful day!
went out for a coffee at the neighborhood joint and saw tons of Kerry Edwards signs up that weren't there yesterday. The air was crisp, the coffee excellent.
I come home, fire up the computer, and see Kerry up over at Newsweek.
Oh yeah, Kerry is back, bitches!
(although he really never went anywhere... we are just catching up with that bad ass!)
it's just polls people same ones i didn't believe last week.
that said that, it's, mo jo ris'n
bushie's are going to get real mean now.
John Kerry is french? no,
John Kerry Kicks Ass!!!
it's just polls people same ones i didn't believe last week.
that said that, it's, mo jo ris'n
bushie's are going to get real mean now.
John Kerry is French? no,
John Kerry Kicks Ass!!!
Kerry Nation, nah, they would rather be lizzies in a Bush administration than regular folks in a Kerry Nation.
........
They are just seeing the writing on the wall and the direction of the trajectory and want to have some marginal, residual creds by the time Kerry is sworn in as President .
..........
Broder scrambling to reposition was hilarious.
..........
ZuZu's Petals,
You got it-WooHoo, and thanks to Silleigh, lets do a embedded link.
<a href="link URL goes in here">linked text in here</a>
Kerry/Edwards In A LANDSLIDE!!
STENCIL: HOPE SENATOR "I FUCK 'EM RICH" KERRY KEEPS HIS DAY JOB. WAIT A SECOND, WHAT IS HIS DAY JOB?
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 10.02.04 - 7:26 pm | #
Ummm.... Senator? Like you just fucking said?
Idiot.
Would you elect him in a tux?
Would you choose him tho' he sucks?
Would you slam those lucky ducks
Who pay no taxes but have no bucks?
No I would not, Uncle Sam
I do not like that Dubya man
I would not choose him in a tux
Even for a million bucks
I do not like him in a suit
I'd like to give his ass the boot
I do not like that Dubya man
I do not like him, Uncle Sam.
Mo jo ris'n
Music, please.
The CW is that Bush did okay in the 2000 debates because he exceeded everyone's rather low expectations at the time.
But his handlers have spent the last four years grooming his image into President Hot Stuff. So they annihilated the only real advantage he had in the previous debates.
Lord knows what they're telling him at debate practice this week, but I'm not sure it matters--they're still trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's offspring.
* * *
And Happy Birthday to Tena! You know you're doing something wonderful when the trolls start singling you out.
This is the interpretation of the matter: MENE, God has numbered the days of your kingdom and brought it to an end; TEKEL, you have been weighed in the balances and found wanting; PERES, your kingdom is divided and given to the Medes and Persians (Kerrys and Edwards)
that fuck'n smart horse is still hang'n out in here?
Mo Do however will not switch, she will kvitch against Kerry all the way upto 2012.
............
And even after that she will keep on kvitching .
.............
At least, that way, she is consistent.
.............
Wrong of course, but consistently wrong.
..............
.
..............
In today’s world that counts for something.
.............
Freep this poll:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6028629/
"Global test" counter-meme:
Kerry just meant "a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind" when he said that. If that was good enough for Jefferson and the other Founders, shouldn't it be good enough for us?
bush rules
Darius sez...
THE SCALES OF JUSTICE HAVE BEEN BALANCED
AND YOU HAVE BEEN FOUND WANTING!!!!
Your electoral votes have been divided
And given to the PEOPLE!!!!!
Kerry in a LANDSLIDE!!!!!
Why does Mount St. Helens hate America?
Tena!!!
Kale gennathlion!!!
Tanjobi o omedeto gozaimasu!
Glueckliche Gebuertstag!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!
Anonymous
That's right.
The writing is on the wall.
One of the blogs had an item today which reported that Bush's supporters don't even know what his positions on the issues are. Something like 70% believe that he supports the treaty on global warming which he pulled the US out of. Numbers running from 50 to 80 per cent of his supporters don't know what his position is on a wide range of economic, environmental, and social issues. They believe his position is on one side when in fact it is on the other. They tend to think that his position is the same as theirs when it clearly is not. This may explain why he keeps the focus on the war on terror; if he were to talk about anything else people would see that his position on many issues is the opposite of theirs.
The report also showed that large majorities of Kerry supporters know where he stands on important issues.
MinnieB9,
Alas! You are right. Just wishful thinking on my part.
But they really would have more fun...I mean, WILL have more fun when we have a real president again.
The polls truly are meaningless and no one is going to be more surprised than the media when Kerry wins in a landslide.
Unless.....no I'm not even going there. Hey, does anyone by any chance have a real old ring that they need to toss into Mt.St.Helen's? Just in case Saur..I mean Cheney and Karl Rove have some evil deeds planned.
While reading the Atrios troll
I'm struck at attempts to cajole
They ne'er post a name
Because they're filled with such shame
For supporting someone with no soul
We need tyo get Schnieder fired. We got luntz now it's time for the Player of The Weak.
Just send an error report about Bill Schnieder to CNN stating that many candidates have won the first debate and gone on to win.
1) Kennedy* and Nixon.
2)Reagan* Carter
3) Carter* Ford
4)Clinton * Dole
*Asterix denotes winner of first debate and November Election.
Bill deliberately glosses over these rather obvious examples in his attempt to prop up a very weak Bush performance. The AEI's Bull Scheiter just handed us his head on a platter with his spin.
happy hunting with FOXs Cameron.
OT: The stultifying inanity of Charles Johnson and Litte Green Fools continues with his latest posting:
Yet Another Curious Coincidence.
Agence France Presse jumps on the New York Times Iraqi intelligence report:
Instead of examining the troubling NYT reportage that Bushco knew the aluminum tubes were most unlikely to be nuclear-related, Johnson gets all excited that AFP reported on the NYT story, Because they are French, you see.
The lead is great but the definite "sealing of the deal" is Kerry wins in the BIG 2 battleground states - Ohio and Florida.
If the debate is a "leading indicator" then Kerry is looking good.
Who won...
Florida
Kerry 45% Bush 31%
Ohio metropolitan areas
Cleveland OH
Kerry 51% Bush 26%
Cinninati OH
Kerry 37% Bush 35%
DoReMiFaSoLaTiDo
Dubya's just a stankin' ho
Be he alive or be he dead
He gon' regret the day he said
'Bring it on!'
Kerry put a whomp-ass on his keister
He's askin' which is less or leaster
To suffer the slings and arrows of well-deserved criticism and censure
Or to high-tail it back to Bar's skirts and Poppy's dentures?
"</i> </b>"
$lt;/i$gt;
$lt;/b$gt;
replace the '$'s with '&'
I mean, we bomb who we want, when we want! Fuck that UN, global test bullshit
Old Hat - That's classic. That type still see the US's power as military. They don't realize we are already at the mercy of China and Japan - They pull the plug on buying our T-Bills and our economy is fucked. What good is our military strength if we become a third world country.
So Kneepads Schneider is shillin' for his boy again? Hell, at least Novak admits he's a partisan...but, I guess that's like giving Charlie Manson props over Jeffry Dahmer by saying, "Hey, at least Charlie never ate his victims!!"
Georgie, Porgie pudd'n and pie
Pissed off the rethugs and made them cry
When the Dems came out to play
Georgie Porgie ran away
44_04
Except, Kerry isn't leading where it counts:
http://www.electoral-vote.com/
have fun hyping the irrelevant though
Memo to Turd Blossom:
Good luck polishing your TURD!
According to a maid at the hotel where Mr. Novak was staying, she saw a young boy weeping in Mr. Novak's suite while she was delivering "three extra feather pillows" Mr. Novak had requested. "I think the man could see that I was worried. He got up and pressed a dollar into my hand and leaned really close, explaining that the boy was a friend's nephew from Iraq, who's family had recently been killed. He was so close that I could smell his terrible old man breath, and his teeth... I was so frightened, I left quickly." The alleged "slip" in the bathtub occurred later that evening. EMS personnel reported seeing no other occupants besides Mr. Novak when they arrived.
" What steams me about a Kerry win, however, is having to listen to shit-heels like Atrios crow about it for 4 years." HGT
no, that's wrong. 8 years would be more like it.......
44_04
anonymous5
Exactly! I turned 44 last week and I told my husband it was an omen.
We'd get our 44th president in '04 the year I turn 44.
I've never believed in numerology but if Kerry wins I'll take it into consideration.
James Robertson, why do you support Miserable Failure?
He's going to lose.
You're not even old enough to vote.
Steve Thompson.
James Robertson.
Such nice names.
Except, Kerry isn't leading where it counts:
http://www.electoral-vote.com/
have fun hyping the irrelevant though
you gotta love intellectual freeper trash, slamming you for being happy with particular polls and then hyping polls in the next sentence.
this poll is awesome. they generally mean crap, but the timing of this so much reinforces the clear perception that Kerry cleaned W's clock. It is now beyond the ability of spinners to say otherwise.
with this new momentum, W's attacks are going to be met with more skepticism and will be seen as desperate. The guy simply has nothing to run on.
VP debated also generally are meaningless, however, this one will allow Edwards to reinforce Kerry's groundwork on Thursday that Bush-Cheney is out of touch and that the authorization vote in 02 was not an authorization for misleading the country.
Also, Edwards is going to beat the shit out of Cheney when the creep pulls a mocking tone about a global test. Edwards is going to bitch-slap Cheney, and point out that Kerry was saying that the test is global: every leader across the globe must be able to speak truth to its citizenry if its actions are truly truly legitimate.
In essence, by criticizing the global test remark, Bush-Cheney is mocking the very foundation of democracy itself. The charge is so easy to knock down, and rest assured that Edwards is going to choke the motherfuckers with it.
Um, Mr. Robertson, go back to the electoral vote map and look at the dates for the state-for-state polls. Some of them date back as much as three weeks ago. We're going into the volatile last weeks of a hotly contested election making that electoral map pretty much irrelevant.
In other words, STFU!
Bill Schneider paraphrased on Headline News about 15 minutes ago: OK, so it's almost impossible to deny that Kerry won big, but look who were the first debate winners in recent elections: Mondale, Dukakis, Perot, **Gore**.
So, Kerry abused chimp-ass so badly Thursday night that Mr. I-Never-Lost-a-Debate retroactively lost the first debate with Gore. Damn, that was a rout of epic proportions.
The emperor has no clothes brain.
This is how I can tell I'm commenting on a lefty blog - the profanity and name calling in place of discussion.
The state by state polls are all that matter - the national popular vote is irrelevant.
Note that Kerry only leads by 3 in Maryland, a state that hasn't gone for Republican since 1988. Note that the Northeast isn't solid for Kerry.
So whoop it up - it won't matter much in the long run
This is how I can tell I'm commenting on a lefty blog - the profanity and name calling in place of discussion.
The state by state polls are all that matter - the national popular vote is irrelevant.
Note that Kerry only leads by 3 in Maryland, a state that hasn't gone for a Republican since 1988. Note that the Northeast isn't solid for Kerry.
So whoop it up - it won't matter much in the long run
John Kerry is not making the *mistakes* that any of those others made.
He has bypassed the media and gone right to the people.
Well, he is running against a total moron. But that moron has enjoyed a free ride as far as the press is concerned.
9/11 changed everything? The Bush administration let us all down that day.
No more fucking excuses.
The emperor has no clothes brain.
Anonymous
there is no doubt that the media is going to rally round W. As I posted yesterday, when and if W recovers in the next or final debate, they will say that he staunched his wounds and that it is going to be difficult for Americans to dump there president in a time of war (of his own making).
As Joe Conason says in his column, we got to give not an inch.
And we fucking aren't!
I love all you bitches!
Don't forget about the Niger uranium story. Much more important than bush's guard records.
Atrios, I hope that the prediction you made in the spring doesn't come true now. I can only hope the Secret Service know what they are doing.
My mommy would wash my mouth out with soap if I said bad words like you guys just said.
My mommy used to make me feel better after she washed my mouth out for dirty words. Now when I hear nasty words my pee pee gets really hard and I want my mommy.
The doctors in Florida should have refused to treat Novak until he revealed his source.
9/11 changed everything? The Bush administration let us all down that day.
No more fucking excuses.
A must read about the 9/11 commission:
Benjamin DeMott's article in this month's Harpers.
They're trying to pry open Cheney's mouth so that when he speaks on Tuesday night it won't look like he's making faces.
Hey Jimmy,
Will you send off our children to die for a lie?
Yes or no.
Whatever you say, *James*.
Heehee.
You are pathetic, jimmy.
James Robertson
Who cares what you think?
Yes the Harper's article on 9/11 tells it like it is about Bush's negligence.
Why do people like JR hang out on lefty blogs?
Who the darn* invited him to our house?
darn=fuck=profanity
Except, Kerry isn't leading where it counts:
http://www.electoral-vote.com/
have fun hyping the irrelevant though
Talk about irrelevant. All the polls in the "barely Bush" and "weak Bush" states were done before the debate. With Kerry's jump in the Newsweek poll, I wouldn't be too cocky about Bush hanging onto those swing states.
Music to my ears. Goodbye to the widow-hugger.
edwards has a big advantage going into the debate. his advantage is that pretty much everyone, including bush supporters, hates cheney already.
edwards has a big advantage going into the debate. his advantage is that pretty much everyone, including bush supporters, hates cheney already.
Don't know why but I'm seeing Tom Cruise and Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men.
"sealing of the deal" is Kerry wins in the BIG 2 battleground states - Ohio and Florida
and i too agree but This concerns me.
Hood recommended that people who were registered by a group instead of at their county elections office check to make sure they are actually registered.
She also said anyone registering to vote outside a county office should double check to make sure all information is accurate, forms are completely filled out and that the group plans to turn the applications in before midnight Monday.
sorry feminists, i know this bitch, she was our mayor, not good people.
HaPPy Birthday Tena! maybe on the next one we can be bitching about President Kerry
Yes the Harper's article on 9/11 tells it like it is about Bush's negligence.
DeMott hammered home just much Bush ignored Al Qaeda before 9/11 to concentrate on Iraq.
Even I was shocked.
OT, but we're not home free yet...Kerry needs to keep on the attack...My oldest son recently bought his first house in a blue collar suburb near Baltimore...Unfortunately I noticed that his neighborhood has an overabundance of Bush-Cheney lawn signs and the pickup trucks and SUVs have the silly "W" oval stickers on them...It saddens me to see so many hard working, blue collar, middle class and working people duped into believing that Dear Leader and the conservative agenda is looking out for their welfare...How have we democrats and progressives allowed the republicans to convince so many working people that the republicans champion labor over capital, when the opposite is true?...Yeah, I read "What's the Matter with Kansas...Like I said, there is much work to be done before 02 Nov if Kerry is to win, because a lot of misinformed people (i.e. the ones you would traditionally think would vote democratic) are still in the republican fold.
Well if the media is going to rally look at the options.
If they are in bed with the Republicans, what would be the reason. Money obviously. I cannot believe so many of them are true believers.
If it is money then they have to make a bet right now.
1. Back bush to the bitter end, hoping Bush is re-elected. This means they have a chance of him not being re-elected. Loss of influence.
If they win, then all is good for them, if they lose, they have no influence with the new administration.
2. Do their jobs in which they sill stand the same chances as above but at least they get praise from the community. Godwill and a little influence.
3. Drop Bush as damaged goods and begin backing Kerry. This will reduce though not eliminate possible loss of influence. But reduction is better than nothing at all. They will have replaced uncertainty with certainty.
If they are truly the stone cold bastards I think they are, if there is even a twitch to show a repeat of Thursday, that little trend we have started to see might become a storm. If I were them, I would do it. Fortunately I am not them.
Kerry is more presidential
Kerry fights for truth
Bush is angry
Bush mislead about WMDs
Bush mislead about 911 Commission (against it before he was for it)
Bush mislead about freedom to marry
Who's the weakest leader?
Here it is. Spread it like fire.
Don't know why but I'm seeing Tom Cruise and Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men.
I know why. Perfect comparison.
Sactogal,
Especially with the huge jumps in voter registration in key swing states that lean heavily Democrat. Also, there's a great story in Salon.com about influential Republican women in Arizona campaigning for Kerry.
That electoral map is way out of sync with current trends.
Don't know why but I'm seeing Tom Cruise and Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men.
I know why. Perfect comparison.
I WANT THE TRUTH
I mean the new voters being heavily Democratic, not the states.
My brain and my fingers aren't wired together well.
Why do people like JR hang out on lefty blogs?
i've often wondered this myself. i've been to a few righty blogs. i read a dozen comments, am horrified, then i leave. sometimes a parting remark but i warn them not to bother to respond, because i won't be back.
I was just watching Cheney/Leiberman debating from the last election.
Joe was such a fucking wimp.
Cheney was lying with an avalanche of made up facts. Joe totally let him get away with it.
The thing I noticed was what happens at a poker table when somebody is hustling you and pretending he's your friend. Rule #1 there are no friends in poker. Joe was trying to play nice and Cheney took him to the cleaners.
John Edwards is not going to fall for that kind of shit. He's Mack The Knife.
First debate was Gollum vs Strider to see who will lead us into Mordor.
The second debate is Samwise vs Sauron as to who will get the Ring of Power.
And push Gollum into Mt. St. Helens.
SWR - RMJ made that comparison earlier today about Bush here.
its all about turn out, people.
And we are fucking pissed! Some mother fucker is going to have to pry my ballot from my cold, dead hands before its not counted, I swear to God!
Oh, btw, NYT has an awesome review of Jon Stewart Liebowitz' new book America.
It Rocks, bitches!
Hey JR, ever hang out on Free Republic? Yeah, what a swell bunch o' guys who NEVER use profanity, or, heaven forbid, issue forth with racist spew!
Kerry needs to hammer Bush repeatedly on the "I don't know how he's going to pay for homeland security" gaffe. By not giving huge tax cuts to millionaires, Dear Leader!
"$200 billion for Iraq, trillions for tax cuts for the rich, but not one penny for domestic security!" There's your W. platform for re-election. Sweet, eh?
Not that Newsweek would skew the polling, right?
Asshats.
John Kerry's foreign policy in a snapshot; http://story.news.yahoo.com/news...c7cw_photo0&
e=5
BTW. If you really want to know how badly Bush lost the debate, just take note of the wingnuts who seem to have totally lost their minds about it.
Charles Johnson at LGF is saying that Kerry is descended from Mohammed. Think this is a joke? Check it out.
OK, extreme examples, but my pro-Bush uncle keeps saying that Kerry is more likely than Bush to reinstate the draft or invade Iran.
He's lost his mind. He has no arguments left.
After the next debate, expect your friendly neighborhood wingnut to be sitting in the corner, drooling over himself, sobbing, and muttering "flip flop flip flop" over and over again.
You'll be tempted to comfort him, but watch out. He might bite you out of sheer rage and frustration.
CNN question of the day:
Do you think there will be an 'October surprise' that decides the presidential election?
any guesses?
SWR - RMJ made that comparison earlier today about Bush here.
chris/tx | Email | Homepage | 10.02.04 - 9:21 pm | #
Scooped again.
"...the national popular vote is irrelevant."
- James "Security Mom" Robertson
...the smell of desperate trolls...
...like burning hair ...or singed Bush...
If they are in bed with the Republicans, what would be the reason. Money obviously
it's the money, it's always the money, except when it's true belief. it's the money.
WHORES
Freud's daggers stab at the mind of Bush
Visions of patricide dance in his tush
Fifty-score and more American dead
Maybe they remember when Dubya said,
'Bring 'em on'?
May they haunt
Whatever is left of his soul
Until he runs screaming
Over the edge
Into the abyss
That is his and his alone.
Falling forever
Into the emptiness that mirrors that of his own spirit
With a scream
That only Cheney can hear.
I mean the new voters being heavily Democratic, not the states.
My brain and my fingers aren't wired together well.
And they read across the chest of the Balrog, written in cruel runes, the following...
'FOUR MORE WEEKS!!!'
Any guesses on the chances that someone is going to ask an "unauthorized question" next Friday? And if it happens, will the candidate answer it anyway (anyway because the moderator will shut the person up immediately and explain that it was not a vetted question... which will be an Orwellian moment indeed.
Ya know, you guys have to get madder.
It was all that pretend *outrage* about Clinton that gave Bush enough votes so that Florida, a state run by his BROTHER, could hand him the presidency.
Well, we've all seen what happened as a result of that. I can't tell you how many people have said they never thought he would be this bad.
Then 9/11 occurred, and although some people were telling us about the culpability, it took months for the 9/11 Commission to softly tell us that Bush screwed up.
I'll never forget Richard Ben-Veniste asking Rice about the name of the August 6th PDB. And she hemmed and hawed and finally said:
Bin Laden determined to strike in US.
"See, Dick the Prick will try the whole "lawyers are scum" thing vs Edward Skywalker, but all Ed has to say back is "Halliburton", delicious!
Tangerine"
Amen brother. I read this and got an image. Edwards could win the debate by simply dressing up like the AFLAC duck and in his best ducklike voice simply reply "HALIBURTON!" after everything DICK says.
The notion that Cheney could beat Edwards is so so laughable. Edwards will gut DICK like a flounder on the dock and his entrails will spill out onto the floor with a sickening plop.
"HALIBURTON!"
Fucking A! Go Team!
We can't get too cocky... Keep the information war alive!
Any guesses on the chances that someone is going to ask an "unauthorized question" next Friday? And if it happens, will the candidate answer it anyway (anyway because the moderator will shut the person up immediately and explain that it was not a vetted question... which will be an Orwellian moment indeed.
---
I think they turn that person's mic off.
My dream question for the Friday debate.
Mr. Prez - how did being a cheerleader at Yale help
prepare you for the job of Commander in Chief ?
I'll never forget Richard Ben-Veniste asking Rice about the name of the August 6th PDB. And she hemmed and hawed and finally said:
Bin Laden determined to strike in US.
Read this month's Harpers and you're going to pop a few blood vessels.
DeMott's piece combined with the Lewis Lapham article on police tactics in New York had me fuming for most of the afternoon.
HALLIBURTON, BITCHES!!!
Heh...I like that italics/bold shit!!
Let's put this fucking poser on the bus to Crawford ASAP.
How anyone in control of his or her faculties can support this moron simply boggles the mind. It's as if rationality has been stood on its head and absurdity has taken the scepter from sanity. Wake up, you morons, and shake off the sleep of the damned Dittoheads!!!
Mr. Prez - how did being a cheerleader at Yale help
prepare you for the job of Commander in Chief ?
Mr. President, the Cole was bombed in October of 2000, a month before the election.
If, as your supporters claim, Clinton was really weak on terror was ultimately responsible for 9/11, WHY THE FUCK DIDN'T YOU MAKE IT A CAMPAIGN ISSUE?
SWR sez:
After the next debate, expect your friendly neighborhood wingnut to be sitting in the corner, drooling over himself, sobbing, and muttering "flip flop flip flop" over and over again.
Actually, after Kerry's win in November I expect a big revival of the "militias" and (white christian) terrorism.
(Can you imagine the squeals from the conservabots at the prospect of a Dem AG armed with the Patriot Act?)
But we'll deal with that later.
Rock on, John & John! Dick will prove flaccid this tuesday!
.
OT, but this is interesting....
FBI may be forced to reveal all on Lennon
The ruling, by a federal judge in Los Angeles, marked the latest victory in a 21-year struggle by a southern California history professor to bring out the truth about the former Beatle and the FBI, which was put on his tail by the Nixon administration during the heated 1972 presidential election campaign.
Oh, and happy B-day, Tena.
Be kind to trolls;Life is short, and
they are condemned to burn in hell for eternity.
(Unless Satan rejects them for being
to far below Hell's standards).
Old Hat - That's classic. That type still see the US's power as military. They don't realize we are already at the mercy of China and Japan - They pull the plug on buying our T-Bills and our economy is fucked. What good is our military strength if we become a third world country.
Considering the situation in Iraq, what good is our military strength now?
Once again, our technology against human determination. Determination wins.
Smart bombs don't make any difference to a suicide bomber. Or a simple remote controlled bomb in a car. Or a package.
Our military can do two things at this point: (1) Leave; or (2) kill every last person in Iraq.
Everything else is just postponing the inevitable.
LOUISVILLE SLUGGER UPSIDE THE HEAD, BITCHES!!!!!!!
Read this month's Harpers and you're going to pop a few blood vessels.
I can't get any angrier, but I've calmed down, because I'm actually working to defeat Bush. GOTV, even here in Michigan.
But if I had lost someone on 9/11, knowing what we know...
I can't tell you how many people have said they never thought he would be
this bad.--pie
Aint it the truth. In summer and fall of
2000, I was running around "with my hair on fire" trying to convince naderites and moderates what the dimwit gov from TX who never worked a freakin' day in his life, could do if
unleashed upon the land. And I take no
solice from being proven right.
But guess what ya'll? Bush has only 109 days left in office. Yeeehaaaaw.
Kerry/Edwards In A LANDSLIDE!!
Great article in salon.com, and I am starting to see more and more of this growing theme on the web; Republicans for Kerry 2004
Salon.com News | Don't it make a red state blue: "'Are we safer today?' Judith Allen asks. 'No.' But that's not the only reason she's campaigning against Bush. Allen cites a laundry list of reasons why she and other Republicans are championing Kerry; since she joined the campaign in mid-July, her role in Republicans for Kerry has expanded rapidly. 'It evolved because we had so many [Republican] people calling, saying, 'How can I get involved?' They knew I was a Republican and they felt comfortable talking to me. It's kind of like, 'It's all right. You have a friend.''
One of Allen's new friends is Phoenix teacher Catherine Wyman. At the group's behest, Wyman, a registered Republican-cum-Kerry volunteer, paid to attend a recent luncheon in Phoenix in which Wade Sanders, a friend of Sen. Kerry's since the '60s who also commanded a Swift boat in Vietnam, spoke to a group of about 30 Democrats, Republicans and Independents. Sanders' stop in Phoenix was one of many during his tour of Arizona, in which he met with veterans, undecideds and Kerry supporters.
'I just don't think our country can survive four more years of George Bush,' says Wyman, who flirted with the Libertarian Party for two years but remains registered with the GOP. 'I think that the war in Iraq is nothing short of criminal. And I think that his unilateral decision to attack a sovereign nation, it just was horrible and played right into the hands of al-Qaida.'"
Somebody's probably said this already, but I'ma go with it anyway;
I love the pic from the debate on the MSNBC site. I also got a kick out of the little video of Scrub's ants-in-my-pants routine during Kerry's responses. I was just struck a moment ago with the utter childishness exposed by these pictures. How many parents out there in the Soft Chewy Center™ saw it too? How many saw not a nearly-sixty-year-old World leader, but their own 10 year old son or grandson, fidgeting and picking his nose when he thinks no one is watching? A bunch of 'em, I'll bet.
Now, can Karl get Junior to behave for the next two debates? Rotsa ruck, Karl baby.
This argues against a wire, too, I think. Someone surely had to see what he was doing and would have put a bee in his ear about it. My tinfoil hat is shaking it's head at me from the bookcase...
Headline (retroactive)...
'COLE BOMBED IN YEMEN
Terrorists Want Bush Elected'
there is a very informative piece up at Slate by Chris Suellentrop about the bogus "global test" charge. It is complete bullshit, and the Dems have already created an ad in response.
Here is Holbrook's statement:
Holbrooke said the "Bush attack" was "another flagrant misrepresentation by the administration of what Sen. Kerry said," and added, "Who in their right mind would not wish to be sure that the use of force preemptively, or for that matter, any use of force, gets support and understanding from the rest of the world and from the American people and is fully justified?" He called it "longstanding American doctrine" and "a standard position, all presidents have taken it since at least 1945." Sounding irritated about the repeated mentions of the "Kerry doctrine" by reporters, Holbrooke said, "Don't call it a Kerry doctrine. That would suggest that John Kerry has enunciated something new, and he didn't."
Our military can do two things at this point: (1) Leave; or (2) kill every last person in Iraq.
Those are the only two choices?
I have no idea how I double-posted. I swear I didn't refresh! Sorry!
Anyway, Jon Stewart's new book is worth it if only for the picture of the Supreme Court in the nude.
Let's put it this way, the picture of Clarence Thomas puts to rest some anatomical stereotypes about African-American men.
Everything else is just postponing the inevitable.
I should say: Everything else is just stocking the barrel with more fish.
And obviously, only one option is possible.
Georgie Porgie, vodka and rye, joined the TANG and learned to fly.
Georgie Porgie, cocaine and pot, "Pee in the cup? I'd rather not!"
Georgie Porgie, Xanax and 'ludes, pimps himself to neocons and prudes.
Georgie Porgie, whiskey's so sweet, for easing the pain of November's defeat!
Here is more from the Slate article:
Within a couple of hours, the Kerry campaign had changed its mind about whether to release its own ad. Their script begins, "He lost, he's desperate. George Bush lost the debate. Now he's lying about it." The Kerry ad also tries to change the subject, to a New York Times story that comes out Sunday. That day's conference call is billed as, "What President Bush Really Knew About Iraq's WMD Programs Before the War."
Kerry Nation: if you missed it, NYT has a most awesome review of Jon Stewart Liebowitz' new book. I saw him on the Today Show talking about it, but unfortunately it was way too short of a segment.
Those are the only two choices?
I don't think the option of reconstructing Iraq exists for the U.S. We aggravate tensions more than we relieve them by building schools or restoting electricity (which we have singularly failed to do).
Our soldiers simply are, and will remain, targets of choice for bombs and, occasionally, bullets. The possibility of the U.S. bringing order out of this chaos is: nil.
now is the time to go after those "unincluded" conservatives and concerned rethugs who feel that they have been abandoned by the party
you need talking points (I am a conservative democrat and these WILL work on your normal run of the mill secular conservative) the link provides them:
Republicans for Kerry 2004: Members Explain Why They Support
Kerry/Edwards
sweet jesus i hate george bush
Some blogger (can't remember who) said Edwards v Cheney would be like that BtVS episode where Buffy fights Dracula.
sweet jesus i hate george bush
The October surprise came today - Bush's melt down in the polls.
Our soldiers simply are, and will remain, targets of choice for bombs and, occasionally, bullets. The possibility of the U.S. bringing order out of this chaos is: nil.
Robert M. Jeffers
If we do it alone. Seriously, there is a chance for things to get a whole lot better if we are humble and get the UN jointly on board to work cooperatively with Iraq. One of the first things that needs to be done is hire Iraqis to drive the trucks, to build the housing, etc.
Jobs! Jobs! Jobs!
Don't know why but I'm seeing Tom Cruise and Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men.
Yeap, a great scene and a nice thing to hope for.
I just don't see Cheney losing it like Jack. He's ultra controlled.
He might get angy, since he always appears to be angry, but Edwards has to win on points, not a TKO.
I'm confident he'll do well, as his thousands of hours in front of juries in highly contested cases has taught him how to research, organize and present a cogent argument.
IMO, the key issue is how Edwards is able to respond to Cheney's likely statements about Kerry/Edwards not being steadfast enough to win against terror.
Poland, biotches!
if there was any doubt that the Bush administration is hiding something on 9/11, look at Condi Rice's OUTRAGEOUS LIE:
"I don't think anybody could have predicted that they would try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile."
This so outrageous, it has to be a planned lie to divert people's attention from how negligent and culpable the Bush people are over 9/11.
Kerry is more presidential
Wouldn't you be proud to have the man as your president?
Kent, I remember my cousin, who can count the number of times he's ever voted Democratic, shaking his head in disbelief a year ago and saying, "I never thought I'd say this, but I'm beginning to wish that Gore had won the elction."
Fast forward to today and he's now comparing Kid Codpiece to Hitler, saying that he has the blood of thousands (Our guys, Iraqi citizens...even those who died in the terrorist attacks in Spain) on his hands.
Wolfie, Kneepads and JudyJudyJudy love to tell us about Gore-supporting "Security Moms" and those who have fallen under the Dauphin Dumbya/Rasputin Cheney spell, but they never report on the, "Dear God...I can't believe I voted for that idiot!!" crowd. I wonder why....
Oh yeah, I remember.......
Kerry fights for the truth
smary jones--
I agree, which is why I'm for Kerry more and more. No one will go into Iraq if Bush is in office. Hell, Juan Cole says Powell and Blair together had to convince him not to cut and run and put Chalabi in charge.
Sweet crap.
The U.S. has to get the U.N. in, and get out. We can pay for it (we should), but we can't put our soldiers there anymore. They are simply fodder for car bombs.
Now, if we can convince the rest of the world that their soldiers won't simply get blown up in convoys (how the hell do you establish order in that situation?)
I just don't see Cheney losing it like Jack. He's ultra controlled.
Remember this?
"Go fuck yourself."
example of a conservative willing to jump at the democratic ticket (and I couldn't have said it better myself - and I have already converted about 10 rethugs with the same type of slant):
I believe that right now the Democrats are essentially the conservative party, which means they place as great an emphasis on preservation as progress. This comes as a result of the two party system that places us in contrast to the far-right extremist party the Republicans have become which seeks to overthrow the system of government our Founders set up, and dissolve the international order of the last 50 years. By necessity, Democratic candidates are not going to be able to run on as progressive a platform as many of the Dems might wish. One has to take into consideration the nature of the opposition and the character of the body politic when framing a case for the voters.
Kerry is not a reformer as Dean was perceived to be, nor is he a champion of a particular constituency as Gephardt was. But, perhaps at a time like this it is more helpful to judge his candidacy by the quality of his enemies than his friends. His career has been about fighting bad guys, from Vietnam to Dick Nixon to BCCI.
In light of that, I believe Kerry is running, and I support him, for the simple reason that this time and place requires somebody who has the experience and character to keep the country secure while fighting back a rabid political opposition at home and a series of difficult threats overseas. His life has uniquely prepared him for this political moment.
The possibility of the U.S. bringing order out of this chaos is: nil.
The window of opportunity for the US to have any modicum of success closed a long time ago. Now it is just face saving, and even that has passed us by.
Kerry is more presidential
Wouldn't you be proud to have the man as your president?
RapidFire
You mean someone who has shrapnel deep in his thigh as a result of his service to our nation? And who became a prosecutor? And then on to Lt. Governor of a large state and then Senator?
And who can speak intelligently about the problems facing our nation and the world, and who, furthermore, has a plan?
Hell yeah, baby!
Kerry will be generous in victory - George W Bush for ambassador to Poland.
"smary"?
damned. on a computer with a tiny screen and even tinier resolution. I give up for the night.
Smarty Jones,
The NYT review does justice to the book. Actually my husband is reading it first but he can't stop laughing so I'm making him read it out loud to me.
Stewart was on the charlie rose show last week and I missed it. I hope it reruns soon.
The Daily Show is like therapy for me.
YAY!!!
You can't trust polls, but you can feel the tide changing, can't you.
Kerry will be elected, but whether he actually occupies the office of president is another thing altogether. You can expect the Bush/Rove crew to carry on legal battles till their heads explode.
(I'd pay to see that actually.)
Disclaimer: I wish the president only health and happiness. Any indication to the contrary is merely hyperbole.
Molly, NYC sez:
Some blogger (can't remember who) said Edwards v Cheney would be like that BtVS episode where Buffy fights Dracula.
I think more like the ep Superstar. Once Buffy kills the demon Jonathan loses his ability to cloud minds so he's no longer the James Bond Superhero but the pathetic nerd he always was. (But Jonathan was always likable. Unlike Dick. So the analogy is a bit shaky.)
.
SWR - RMJ made that comparison earlier today about Bush here.
chris/tx
I love RMJ, chris. A bright, bright guy.
And you reminded me upthread of the only time in my life I've ever been fired, by a CEO who asked me, incredulously, if I had told the truth about company policy to a fellow employee. I answered yes, and was not even allowed back in the building to get my stuff. My career in the business world was probably inherently limited.
Newsweek Poll
Post-Labor Day
Princeton Survey Research Associates International
Final Topline Results
(9/11/04)
391 Republicans (plus or minus 6)
300 Democrats (plus or minus 7)
270 Independents (plus or minus 7)
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/0409.../
nysa006_1.html
Newsweek Poll
First Presidential Debate
Princeton Survey Research Associates International
Final Topline Results
(10/2/04)
345 Republicans (plus or minus 6)
364 Democrats (plus or minus 6)
278 Independents (plus or minus 7)
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bi...263797&EDATE=):
Newsweek has skewed both polls, but you Asshats cannot see that for having your head firmly up your ass.
I just don't see Cheney losing it like Jack. He's ultra controlled.
cheney's an attack dog and not under control when he does it ... never has been if you look back at him over the years.
edwards has never been unprepared and if he puts him on trial just like he's done with countless CEOs, cheney will be wondering where he got all the puncture holes from when it's over
you forget, edwards was also a key player in defending bubba clinton during the impeachment proceedings and even most rethugs thought he was a very formidable opponent - baby faced assassin that edwards, it's going to be fun because cheney also has a congressional record to defend as well
Well, I don't know why Campaign Kerry is switching policy horses midstream...
But hey...it don't matter...All the president's little protective guys walked into a debate trap...by insiting on a debate format that their boy couldn't keep pace with and by having three debates....
The overprotective plame inpulse lost 'em the whitehouse.
Mommy, GorefucksKerry called us "Asshats." Does that mean the election is over?
Central Scrutinizer: I don't doubt Cheney can be a nasty ass in non-public settings. I think he forget during the Senate photo shoot that someone outside BushCo might hear him.
I'll stand with my guess, that he won't lose emotional control, but he may well say something very damaging. But Nicholson convicted himself, and I don't think Cheney would do that.
GGG,
On the evening in question, someone said "He looks like my kids at a wedding. Someone give him a truck to play with."
Now, if we can convince the rest of the world that their soldiers won't simply get blown up in convoys (how the hell do you establish order in that situation?)
Robert M. Jeffers
RMJ,
I don't think we will right away. Certainly Kerry is not saying that this will happen or that France and Germany are going to come to the rescue.
I think that the plan is that by becoming a true team player, Iraqis -and the world will become more confident - and they will be in a better position to calm things down on their own, especially in the Shiite areas. After awhile, this may lead other nations to commit troops -perhaps even Spain again - to these calmer areas.
The Sunni Triangle is more problematic, and I think that is where we will be for focused for some time. Here I think it really is critical that we have a sense of urgency to quickly and competently train an Iraqi police force, largely comprised of Sunni men to provide relative security in the area. It sure is going to be difficult though.
i saw this 2* general on cnn international tonite, very political.
"Dead bodies and injured people are everywherein the city and when we tried to evacuate them, the Americans fired at us," an ambulance driver told Associated Press Television News. "Later on they told us that we can evacuate only injured women and children and we are not allowed to pick up injured men."
Wounded people, mostly women and children, lay on beds at the Tikrit Teaching Hospital.
"His pregnant mother was killed," said Sami Hashem, standing over a young boy whose belly was covered in bandages. Nearby was a young girl who lost her left foot.
now, is the time for your tears.
unless your a rethug, then it probably sounds like winning.
ZuZu's Petals,
I love it when faced with the realities,
good people open their eyes and make the right decisions. Thank god your cousin
has seen the light.
BTW congrats on the mad html skillz.
Kerry/Edwards In A LANDSLIDE!!
Who will president-elect Kerry choose for his cabinet?
Tom Friedman's back... and he's pissed
A sample:
What happened? The Bush team got its doctrines mixed up: it applied the Powell Doctrine to the campaign against John Kerry - "overwhelming force" without mercy, based on a strategy of shock and awe at the Republican convention, followed by a propaganda blitz that got its message across in every possible way, including through distortion. If only the Bush team had gone after the remnants of Saddam's army in the Sunni Triangle with the brutal efficiency it has gone after Senator Kerry in the Iowa-Ohio-Michigan triangle. If only the Bush team had spoken to Iraqis and Arabs with as clear a message as it did to the Republican base. No, alas, while the Bush people applied the Powell Doctrine in the Midwest, they applied the Rumsfeld Doctrine in the Middle East. And the Rumsfeld Doctrine is: "Just enough troops to lose." Donald Rumsfeld tried to prove that a small, mobile army was all that was needed to topple Saddam, without realizing that such a limited force could never stabilize Iraq. He never thought it would have to. He thought his Iraqi pals would do it. He was wrong.
The overprotective plame inpulse lost 'em the whitehouse.
SpringBored
that's brilliant!
although I might prefer the White House's attack dog plame impulse.
Who will president-elect Kerry choose for his cabinet?
Jerry
let's find a way to win without having to go to the supreme court first!!!
Huey....I told you to stay away from GoreFucksKerry....he likes to touch little boys where he shouldn't.
And yes, honey...the election is over.
GO JOHN GO!!!
oh, please! numbnuts is back!
Guess who's column begins thusly:
"Sorry, I've been away writing a book. I'm back, so let's get right down to business: We're in trouble in Iraq."
NYMary - I just happen to know a little about Halliburton (cough, cough). Use to work for one of the top three officers, and grew up in the same neighborhood with another. Cheney just exemplifies the CEO arrogance that permeates the executives of oilfield companies. Funny, I was layed into for doing the same thing you did, informing a disgruntaled employee of their rights as an employee. But mainly I was always in hot water for being the one to say the emperor has no clothes. Resigned from my last job (seven years) by sending an email at lunch to my boss telling him to go fuck himself after he told me to take over my job and the job of another manager that was resigning.
GorefucksKerry, hey dumb ass, we are well aware how close it is, and if you blood thirsty ignorant pigs should win, well fine, then the real revolution starts. you better hope kerry fuck'n wins.
Huge mo. FLAMING MO!
"He looks like my kids at a wedding. Someone give him a truck to play with."---MYMary
Thats funny as hell, almost as good as this one from earlier thread
About 40 minutes in Thursday night, my husband said, "This is why Andy wouldn't give Barney the bullets." I smiled or something; I was too busy celebrating to appreciate the analogy.
Kerry/Edwards In A LANDSLIDE!!
NYMary: Unfortunately, someone (someone really...supreme) gave him a country to play with. I hope Kerry takes it away from him before he breaks it.
I'll stand with my guess, that he won't lose emotional control, but he may well say something very damaging. But Nicholson convicted himself, and I don't think Cheney would do that.
I agree, for the most part. I'm certain there won't be a repeat of the "Go fuck yourself" scenario, or a full blown breakdown ala Nicholson, but I'm hoping that Edwards can coax just a tiny bit of visciousness out of the heartless bastard.
I believe that it's possible.
At the time, I honestly thought that John was going to say "smell test" instead of "global test." I wish he had. It would have been a nice slam instead of a paranoid, ludicrous, reaching-for-shit Repug talking point. I think it will have a short shelf life regardless, but who knows anymore?
Am I the only one whose immediate interpretation of headlines like this is "Kerry leads in Missouri?"
smarty jones
Clearly, we have a chance with Kerry in office. It'll take four years (at least) to withrdaw U.S. troops without creating a political black hole in the Middle East, and blowing all the props out from under the oil market.
But with Bush, the Big Fool just says: "Move on."
NYMary--you really are too kind to me (but what comparison did I make? Been a long day....)
Gore f**** Kerry,
There are more registered Democrats in this country than there are registered Republicans. This is not a matter of polling, this is a matter of counting. The September poll is skewed because it polls more registered GOP than registered Dems. When a poll contains a few percent more Dems than GOP it is probably accurate in that respect.
So what's your point?
Ugh. Just back from drinks with one of my oldest friends -- back to college 20 years ago.
She's got kids, I don't, so we don't see each other as much. She had bad news. Her husband, whom I marched with against Gulf War I, is [gulp] a newly minted neocon neanderthal. Really bright guy. Had a very scary experience on 9/11 -- witnessed stuff. He kinda always had a wee bit of respect for fascism that I took to be more of a fascination with it from afar. Guess not. Her reaction is to shrug and say he's just going through a phase. Blechhhh.
Fear. Fear. Fear.
Terror. Terror. Terror.
At least we're not in a swing state.
Get loud and fight
on election day/night.
Dems must be heard from before the election is called.We must be out in force, monitoring precincts, voting machines,voter intimidation etc.
Be insanely vigilant.
Go a little insane, get wild eyed...when the campaign is over it's time to count the votes.
We won't be caught off guard!
.
Brokaw blasted what he called an attempt to "demonize" CBS and Rather
"I honor Mr. Rather's service," Brokaw said, while refusing to repudiate the ad campaign waged by the 527 group CBS Bureau Chiefs for Truth.
Eeyore, my hindsight makes me wonder if Kerry shouldn't have just said that our country should only stike preemptively if it isn't doing so recklessly.
I've long felt that using Bush's cowboy image against him would be the best approach to dent that image.
So instead of saying being reckless, he could have kept it simple by saying: we won't ride roughshod over other countries without a good reason so there is no division at home and we don't make new enemies because everyone will know that what we are doing is right.
Central: but I'm hoping that Edwards can coax just a tiny bit of visciousness out of the heartless bastard.
Right on, I agree that's a good and possible goal.
My only worry is whether Edwards can sound credible on national security issues - Cheney will try hard to put him down as a lightweight.
Yipee!
Have you all seen the same incredible number of Kerry/ Edwards bumper stickers too?
To the real asshat that doesn't like the idea of us crowing about Bush being bitch-slapped back to Crawford, TX, don't worry, we'll be tossing other neocons and fundies to the unemployment lines after him.
We won't stop long to celebrate, we'll be celebrating while we kick ass.
Oh, and the comment about Bush being the ambassador to Poland.
POLINAISE!!
Smarty -- No, say it ain't so... Friedman?
Kerry is more presidential
Shit, Nixon was more Presidential.
He still is, and he's dead!
shorter tommy friedman, we need mo troops, mo troops mo troops, bwahahahahahaaha.
...........................
RMJ - You had made a reference to Jack Nicholson on earlier thread, then SWR made same reference on this thread. I pointed it out to him, that is what NYMary was referring to.
shorter tommy friedman, we should still be in the moronic Nanny Bremer state.
................
Democrats need to give disenchanted Republicans a choice other than Kerry. Michael Badnarik could be to W what Perot was to Bush 1.
Smarty -- No, say it ain't so... Friedman?
Pit-Pat
WE HAVE A WINNER!
(actually the column was a bad ass commentary about how completely fucked up W is on Iraq - saying he was more concerned about the Kerry triangle in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Ohio than the Sunni triangle!)
oh, please! numbnuts is back!
does this mean that Bobo gets a vacation now?
shorter tommy friedman, still wuws Bushie, still disses Kerry.
...........
Shorter tommy friedman, gonna stay a moron till the end of 2 Dem terms.
...........
.
..........
get over it, tommy, there is a new sheriff in town.
...............
President John Kerry.
.................
Your people are out, our people are in .
.................
You lost.
..................
Heh hehe hehe heh hehheheh.
...................
Just saying.
....................
Oh, and the comment about Bush being the ambassador to Poland.
I think it's more likely that Bush will be doing the ambassador to Poland.
Bog down and sucking sound are really not popular, tommy, shoulda thoughta that before you told Bushie to go busting in.
............
Just saying.
............
I don’t think Bushie has done anything for the past 20 years.
..............
Just saying theo.
.............
Alright, back to work!
Kerry, in a shocking surprise was able to decisively upset a smoother, more skillful master debater and hand Bush a stunning, but nevertheless first defeat.
Kerry's win has only bled the President. Bush will now regroup and marshall himself for the next round - and remember, a motivated Bush is frighteningly powerful from the podium.
Bush will also be dealing with the subjects that are closest to his core prinicples, and as he has so often shown in the past, when he begins to hold forth on these topics, his rapt audiences are putty in the palm of his hand. His listeners sway helplessly to the cadence of his speech, engrossed by the poetic and magnificent verbal edifices that hang in the air, painted by the ambrosial breaths of the Preznot.
Pass it along.
Um, Atrios, Could we have a new thread, please?
Numbnuts learned NOTHING during his summer vacation.
Have you all seen the same incredible number of Kerry/ Edwards bumper stickers too?
You bet your ass I have.
In Wichita KS, driving through several neighborhoods today, I saw at least 20 Kerry/Edwards signs, and NONE for bush/cheney.
Same ratio of bumper stickers (OK, there was one bush sticker.)
Compared to October 2000, this is amazing.
.
Our soldiers simply are, and will remain, targets of choice for bombs and, occasionally, bullets. The possibility of the U.S. bringing order out of this chaos is: nil.
as usual Robert M. Jeffers is right. It's lost, two words Abu Ghraib. the sooner we get out, the better. bush, will stay, indefinitely. we should do our best not to leave it a failed state, but as smarty points out, without international cooperation it won't, can't happen. diplomacy is our only ticket. bush diplomacy? not happening, not gonna happen, it would be prudent, but not gonna happen.
he has made it very clear he doesn't want it to happen. for him, and the core believers this is a holy war, they are determined, what they failed to realise is so are the fundamentalists on the other side. true belief will do that to you, trust me, i know. it's not a better drug than heroin, but it is stronger.
does this mean that Bobo gets a vacation now?
theodoric
It better!
It'll take four years (at least) to withrdaw U.S. troops without creating a political black hole in the Middle East, and blowing all the props out from under the oil market. -RM Jeffers
Why four? That is just an arbitrary guesstimate by someone who doesn't actually know how long it will take. No one knows. What are you basing the number on?
If the US is concerned about a pre-mature pullout leading to a "political black hole in the Middle East," keep in mind Iraq has gotten MORE massively disastrous and dark the longer we've stayed. So.
If the US is concerned about the oil market, over the last year the oil infrastructure has destabilised due to widespread insurgent "control" of(really, I guess, ability to operate in) the areas through which the pipelines run.
The point being that you shouldn't make guesses about timetables that are based on nothing more than an arbitrary number that's popped into your skull, and that because of how bad things have gotten while we've been there we can consider (without fear of thing getting worse in our absence) a wide spectrum of schedules for departure, from tomorrow to ten years.
The point isn't to formulate, guess at, or set a temporal goal for withdrawal, that's a distraction and a media cathexis more than a sound plan. So by setting a timetable for no reason, or by saying "it'll take four years (at least)" we're doing a disservice to meaningful debate and eventual policy.
What do you want Iraq to look like, and how far are you willing to go to accomplish that? Timetables are absent from those two salient issues (unless you're marking time by bodybags).
John Kerry is not making the *mistakes* that any of those others made. -
This is true, Kerry has made an entirely new one that's a fatal self-inflicted wound (give him another band aid and a purple heart!)to his campaign; no other Presidential candidate has ever offered the "Kerry Doctrine" of not defending America unless he gets permission from the "world" (or from Chirac - for Kerry the two are interchangable). That certainly tops Ford's freeing Eastern Europe of communist domination! Tsk.
Edwards response of the experience issue to to turn it around on Cheney: you are the most experienced vice president in history, and you weren't able to figure out mixed intelligence messages from Iraq, and still claim against all evidence that Iraq and Al Queida were connected.
Years of experience don't count if you don't it right.
My feeling is that the first debate was Bush's best chance to knock Kerry out and now that that has failed things can only get worse. Domestic politics are Kerry's ground and nothing Bush has done or proposed will change that.
minnieB9, read the column.
I linked to it above and excerpted this:
"
What happened? The Bush team got its doctrines mixed up: it applied the Powell Doctrine to the campaign against John Kerry - "overwhelming force" without mercy, based on a strategy of shock and awe at the Republican convention, followed by a propaganda blitz that got its message across in every possible way, including through distortion. If only the Bush team had gone after the remnants of Saddam's army in the Sunni Triangle with the brutal efficiency it has gone after Senator Kerry in the Iowa-Ohio-Michigan triangle. If only the Bush team had spoken to Iraqis and Arabs with as clear a message as it did to the Republican base. No, alas, while the Bush people applied the Powell Doctrine in the Midwest, they applied the Rumsfeld Doctrine in the Middle East. And the Rumsfeld Doctrine is: "Just enough troops to lose." Donald Rumsfeld tried to prove that a small, mobile army was all that was needed to topple Saddam, without realizing that such a limited force could never stabilize Iraq. He never thought it would have to. He thought his Iraqi pals would do it. He was wrong."
He says we need a change in course because everything Bush has tried ain't working. He doesn't say kick the bums out, but, he's close to it, if his short, snippy sentences are any indicator.
The battle may have been won but the war is not over. Just a reminder to stay alert and ready, especially with all the media wingnuts. And Rove has promised several October surprises.
It's gonna be a rough month, but, on second thought THIS WEEK could be the turning point.
Think of it: by this time next week we'll have been through the only VP debate and the second Pres debate -- Friday night? Wonder if they'll get even two-thirds the 62.5 mil.
Said it before, I'll say it again: see Going Upriver.
PS: Minnie -- you crack me up!
John Kerry is not making the *mistakes* that any of those others.....ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......
I can't tell you how many people have said they never thought he would be
this bad.—pie
That’s the ticket, pie, the mod Dems and Indies are bolting from Georgie and his bone headedness.
..............
Bog down, sucking sound, billions and billions and economy in a ditch simply are not popular.
.............
Imagine that.
............
MoDo and Numbnuts will be swilling plenty o'daiquiris soon, you betcha.
Say goodnight, Smirky O'Chimp.
But seriously, Repugs will pile on Kerry if he wins. It will be twice as bad as what they did to Clinton.
HAWKSEYE | Email | Homepage | 10.02.04 - 5:52 pm | #
Yeah, but this time we are ready for them .
.................
Let me dumb it down for you, Steve.
The Kerry doctrine is to stop lying to the world.
Steve, are you being purposely dense?
Kerry says no one will prohibit the United States from determining how to defend itself.
When the US defends itself, however, it will be done in a way that gets our allies behind us, not piss them off.
Its not what you do, but how you do it. That's what is meant by having someone clever and intelligent in the White House, rather than just stubborn.
Read the Kerry's debate quote verbatim, please.
your post was really embarrasing, Steve. You really should call it quits. You are like a male hustler who gets out of jail for prostitution and then goes right back on the streets and gets arrested once again.
In fact, wasn't that you on COPS?
RoveGotRopadopped brought back sweet memories of Ali v. Foreman. How about a new bumper sticker:
KERRY, BOUMAYE!
In fact, wasn't that you on COPS?
smarty jones
Stop it with the killing, you almost owed me a new keyboard. HA HA HA HA HA
LOL
Kerry/Edwards In A LANDSLIDE!!
Steve, read the surrounding context of the "test" comment. Kerry was saying, "if the rest of the world is saying 'shit no!' unless we bribe them to say otherwise, it's probably a stupid idea."
Bush's US is (unsurprisingly) like an alcoholic who refuses to admit they have a problem, even when all their friends try to intervene...
Steve Thompson, The global test...if you look bact to the text of the debate...is the ability to explain and justify your actions afterward to your country and the world.
I believe Kerry stated this after he spoke on how preemptive strikes are a presidential decision he supports.
Do you support a president that believes in striking any false threat his father and he have a grudge against, even when they ...*newsflash to those with their heads up their asses* ....DID NOT attack us and were not found to be supporting the terrorist that did, and not being able to explain a rational, logical, or factual reason for murdering thousands of people?
you don't? So you're voting for Kerry? Good for you.
Pre 9/11 example of "global test" :
Clinton has no intention of trying to get Kyoto passed, goes abroad and makes mollifying sounds about it.
Bush gets into office, and his cronies shut it off without a thought or by-your-leave. When questioned about it, Bush reacts like the questioner is a retard for even suggesting it.
To a Nader-voter, this is evidence that both parties amount to the same thing. But we now realize that diplomacy isn't just "Punish France, ignore Germany, reward Russia" crap. Try a little understanding and some finesse. It's not like Clinton was lockstep with Europe for crissakes.
I think even if Kerry approached a lot of things similarly to BC right now, the mere fact of it not having the bad blood of Bush/Rumsefeld/Rice would make things easier to do. Only time will tell, but the alternative of Bush trying to get out a hole by digging deeper isn't pleasant, especially when his idea of asking for help is bellowing for it at the UN.
Wow, I just stumbled upon this multi-question Newsweek poll... Did we freep it already? Check out the results so far:
Who would you vote for? 80% Kerry
Do you favor reinstating the draft? 71% "Should not be considered"
Do you think the draft is likely to be reinstated if GWB wins? 64% Yes
How have Bush's policies effected the way the world sees the US? 84% "Led to more anti-Americanism around the world"
John Kerry has changed his position on the issues a number of times. Why? "changes his positions as circumstances change"
How much of the debate did you watch? 88% "All or most"
Who do you think won the debate? 84% Kerry
Leading Pollster Guy Molyneux Explains Why the Media Is Overestimating Bush's Lead
An incumbent who can’t break 50 percent is in trouble, even if he’s ahead. Not that we’re referring to anyone in particular.
Great article !
BTW, here's a postcard direct from Fantasyland.
Printed in the SCL San Francisco Chronicle...
This is how I can --
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzz...
Eeyore -- I also thought Kerry was going to say "smell test" (except I expected
"stink test"). Kerry impressed me mightily by choosing his words carefully, and thinking on his feet to great effect. With "global test" I think he rightly avoided insulting the Preznit in the eyes of Repub sheeple, but I think he inadvertently selected a loaded term -- "global". However, the idea that Kerry will put the US's every move up for a vote in Paris is not one that Rove will be able to get the Murkan people to swallow at this point.
FReepers creeepers tonight. I guess since they have nothing good to say about their own candidunt, they attack us. Who taught these people such hatred?
Instead of calling us names and using childish arguments, how about some adult debate? We all know how well that is working out for you.
pbb, Friedman is a moron because he thought it was such a brilliant idea to invade Iraq. He promoted it KNOWING Iraq was no threat, but as some sort of grand social experiment to remake the ME.
The reason Condi Rice hemmed and hawed when Ben Veniste asked her the name of the PDB was because the White House had refused to turn over the PDB unless the 9/11 Commission agreed not to put the title in its report. So when Ben Veniste asked her the title at the hearings you could see her thinking, "They're breaking our agreement!" To which Ben Veniste answered, with his eyes, "I promised not to put it in the report. I never promised not to *ask* you the title on national TV, wench."
Karin, they will be rolling on the floor, yawling and carrying on.
.............
heh heh heh heh heh.
..............
"Leading Pollster Guy Molyneux Explains Why the Media Is Overestimating Bush's Lead"
That's misoverestimating. Stupid libirels.
I agree w/ Steve, no global test. FOR ANYONE: MOSCOW, Oct. 1 -- Russia's upper house of parliament has approved a measure that would give President Vladimir Putin effective control over the body that approves candidates for the country's higher courts and also disciplines and dismisses senior judges. The plan has drawn fresh criticism that the Kremlin's centralization of power is undermining, if not eradicating, all potential checks on the executive branch.
YAY for Pooty-Poot, he's his own man, doesn't listen to the world's opinions of "you're turning Russia into an authoritative nightmare. Again. Please stop that." A real Russian cowboy, I'm w/ you Steve! NO GLOBAL TESTS FOR ANYONE!
John Kerry has changed his position on the issues a number of times. Why? "changes his positions as circumstances change"
..................
Wow, despite the best efforts of Bushie personally and the Vichy toad media, people still get what is the reality.
.............
Imagine that.
.............
Never thought I would say this, but Georgie that is a good one.
........
.
...............
(Brownshirt S), read the surrounding context of the "test" comment.
Sorry, Unka Karl doesn't allow outside reading material in the boilerroom. He can only type what's placed directly in front of him.
Hey Steve, I guess you're just like your hero Bush, eh? If the lies you've been telling don't work...tell 'em again, but try to sound even nastier and more sarcastic!
Bush is a moral and physical coward. If you were walking down the street with him and someone attacked you, he'd be five blocks away before you noticed he was gone.
Anyone who'd play toady to a coward like Bush has about as much moral standing as a pinworm living in a jackal's ass. It beats me how you can stand to swallow so much shit, but I'm not surprised that you'd vomit it back up every chance you get.
A pinworm. Yeah, that's about right.
Folks, let's face it, BushCo is desperate. The campaign isn't running on its record it is just smearing Kerry/Edwards.
Hell.
When was the last time a campaign took the time to smear with TV ad money the VP nominee of the opponent?
Granted Cheney is getting his due from KE04 but for the incumbent to spend time trying to diss trial lawyers even when one of their former cabinet members, Mel Martinez former HUD Secretary and trial lawyer is running for an open Senate seat, is absurd!
BushCo have spent waaaay too much going negative and not enough running on its strengths. Why not? They know they are weak there, too. Iraq is just too f'd up to make their campaign look good. And, the jobs picture ain't a bed of roses, it is too thorny. So, here we are.
Kerry's bounce should be real. Debate 2 isn't going to Bush. Unless he rigs the audience.
Oh yeah. My prediction:
Tom Friedman is going to be on TV this week and he'll practically be stumping for Kerry and arguing that Bush doesn't deserve a second term.
I agree w/ Steve, no global test.
yeah, FUCK that decent respect for the opinion of mankind shit!
I think that Karl Rove bears an uncomfortable resemblance to the Gestapo Nazi in Raiders of The Lost Ark, the one wearing the hat, eyeglasses and black leather trench coat.
kent,
"He looks like my kids at a wedding. Someone give him a truck to play with."---MYMary
Uh, I know this was a typo, kent (love your posts, by the way), but technically I belong to Thersites. And he to me.
the global test is not a checklist for permission slips...concrete thinkers are so thick.
Read the text of the debate, decode the words, comprehend the meaning...then vote Kerry.
Illiteracy Uncovered
People want Kerry because they want to
- end the bog down and
- end the isolation.
...............
The Kerry Doctrine: Your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing and you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons.
Sounds dangerous to me.
RMJ,
You were cited as the origin of the Few Good Men read on the Edwards/Cheney debate.
(Forgive my delay in responding. Thersites horked my laptop because is was involved in some complex game involving Teletubbies.)
pbb, friedman already dissed Kerry, says he is just a politician.
..............
Moron.
.............
I think that Karl Rove bears an uncomfortable resemblance to the Gestapo Nazi in Raiders of The Lost Ark, the one wearing the hat, eyeglasses and black leather trench coat.
Karl Rove bears an uncomfortable resemblance to that thing in your week old garbage you think for a minute is rice and then realize that rice doesn't wriggle.
The Kerry Doctrine: Your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing and you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons.
Sounds dangerous to me.
pixie | Email | Homepage | 10.02.04 - 10:54 pm | #
pixie good one .
Shoot, speaking of thick!
Illiteracy really uncovered
Oh, the irony!
"Tom Friedman's back... and he's pissed"
Thank goodness! Who was the biggest, most influential, "liberal" columnist agitating for the war on Iraq? Guess who?
Probably went on vacation so people would forget what a war-monger he was leading up to the war.
Steve the pinworm ridin around in the poop shoot of a mange jackal. Is it hot in there?
Anyone who'd play toady to a coward like Bush has about as much moral standing as a pinworm living in a jackal's ass.
If you think Shrub is brave, you think hockey in Ecuador is The Shit.
Absolutly the best debate piece yet:
"Kerry Cleans the President's Clock"
http://antiwar.com/justin/
I agree w/ Steve, no global test.
Yeah, trying to get support and listening to advice is STUPID. I mean, suppose we ask some jerk who leads Egypt, and he says that atttacking Iraq's a bad idea? What if the French said we should let inspectors do their work before we invade? The only possible outcome of listening to defeastist talk like that is THE DEATH OF THE REPUBLIC, AND AMERICA IN CHAINS!
So if I'm at a bar with some buddies, and I've had a few too many, and I decide it's time to burn down my boss's house...and I try to enlist my friends to help me, and they not only refuse, but tell me it's a bad idea and will cause more problems than it'll solve...the only proper course of action is to go with my "gut instinct" and torch that fucker's house. And then, revile them from my jail cell for being "fair-weather friends."
Facts? Advice? Common sense? Strictly for sissies!
Karl Rove bears an uncomfortable resemblance to that thing in your week old garbage you think for a minute is rice and then realize that rice doesn't wriggle.
Oh, that is nasty.
Karl Rove = a maggot.
I see that Ariel Sharon is in a big hurry to kill 'em off before the next administration is sworn in.
Meanwhile Bush is reduced to hoping some opportunity will arise in Iraq that will somehow justify that he's fighting the "war on terror" there. He has a vested interest in that bad actor Zarqawi. I suspect that chances are zero to none that any groups there are really Al Qaeda.
November can't come soon enough and Inauguration Day is an eternity.
C'mon people.Lets not ose our heads over a simple poll and a debate win.
The fight is not yet won.
All the talk here is the election is over.IT IS NOT.
There will be hard days ahead and it is better to keep our enthusiasm in check.I understand the sentiment,but lets be real here.
Kerry is going to win,but not if we get overconfident.
Just sayin,is all.
.
Rick Barton,
His opinion carries about as much weight as yours, which is pretty much none.
Ghandi's not running for prez, OK?
>Karl Rove = a maggot.<
They are using maggots to help clean up wounds that won't heal these days.
He looks and acts like a big pus filled slug. A big fat hungry shit fly with no wings.
Boy, trying to keep up and serve the family a late dinner is tougher than I thought:
chris/tx and Thersites' Mary:
Thanks. Has been a long day. Forgot I mentioned that.
It'll take four years (at least) to withrdaw U.S. troops without creating a political black hole in the Middle East, and blowing all the props out from under the oil market. -RM Jeffers
Why four? That is just an arbitrary guesstimate by someone who doesn't actually know how long it will take. No one knows. What are you basing the number on?
Of course it's an arbitray number; but it's the one in play. I don't know how long it will take either, but Kerry has guesstimated 4 years, Bush has said "when we win."
Since my analysis precludes any such "victory" as Bush must envision, I picked Kerry's arbitrary number as a point of reference.
Nothing more, nothing less. You want to establish a new reference point, go ahead. But Kerry's is one easily recognized by one and all.
Kind of hard to cite "Anonymous sez," after all.
There will be hard days ahead and it is better to keep our enthusiasm in check.I understand the sentiment,but lets be real here.
How is our enthusiasm on this blog going to deleteriously affect the election?
It's not.
hello, karin,
you answered a post of mine thursday night.
any chance that you could help me retrieve it?
thnx,
I think Edwards is gpoing to make Cheney look really bad. And I don't think it will be because of style alone. Here's some substance, retrieved from the 'ol memory hole:
"In May 2001, in response to an increase in "chatter" about an al Qaeda terror attack, President Bush appointed Vice President Cheney to head a task force "to combat terrorist attacks on the United States." The Washington Post and Newsweek have confirmed that the Cheney Terrorism Task Force never met. Remarkably, the White House's rebuttal of Richard Clarke's new book does not even mention the Cheney Terrorism Task Force."
http://tinyurl.com/3qaba
The "when did you stop beating your wife" question, 2004 edition:
"Mr. Cheney, in the last three years, have you ever thought it would have been a good idea to hold a meeting of your Terrorism Task Force BEFORE 9/11?"
Central Scrutinizer | Email | Homepage | 10.02.04 - 11:05 pm | #
Wasn't me.
The real
pie, have you seen farmer's KKKarl 'maggot'?
RMJ,
Four years: I'm with you on this. There's such a mess in Iraq that there's no way it'll end quickly. Out of curiousity, you mentioned upthread that Blair & Powell had to talk Bush out of cutting and running. I believe it, but where did you see it?
If you people have anything in your fridge that even remotely resembles Karl Rove, please don't ever invite us over for dinner.
Seriously, let someone else host the meetup.
At least I wasn't "Central Scrotumizer", I guess.
Bush is a moral and physical coward. If you were walking down the street with him and someone attacked you, he'd be five blocks away before you noticed he was gone.
what i always said about his father, he was the school yard bully who would start the fight, then stand back and watch while the victim was destroyed, then deliver the final kick.
the bushes are not nice people. i wouldn't want most people to be judged by their children, i know how that can go.(stoned slacker father, brilliant, college student daughter), but consider the twins vs. the kerry daughters, and then tell me who has the best character to lead this country.
Josh, by the way, in a rare late night post nails Shrub on bogus Iraqi "trained forces" numbers, via Reuters.
This is actually pretty frightening shit. They have about 9000 actually trained personnel. Quite a track record for 16 months. Swell.
albert,I'll take a look. I recall responding to your post, but I don't remember the topic.
have you seen farmer's KKKarl 'maggot'?
No. But I hate the sight of ugly little wormy things.
No wonder I don't like Rove.
My apologies - I see now that the post said "garbage," not fridge. And with that embarassing non-sequitor, I'm off to bed.
Bush cutting and running? Yeah, I'd like to see that too? Did they stop construction on those 14 military bases?
...I belong to Thersites. And he to me.
NYMary
Well you guys are both Lucky, thank you, and now I will try to figure out what I
screwed up downthread.
Kerry/Edwards In A LANDSLIDE!!
NYMary--
On my daughter's computer, not mine, at the moment, or I'd link you directly. It was Juan Cole's website this morning (may be down a bit by now; I think he posted it yesterday, in fact). He said he had the information personally, from someone who would know.
IIRC, from what Cole posted, Garner (remember him?) noised it about that he was gonna leave it all to Chalabi. People in Iraq called State saying: What the hell? That went to Powell, who went to Blair, and together they went to Bush and got him to change his mind.
Imagine the disaster that would have been. Blair must have seen his political life pass before his eyes.
But check Juan's blog; I'm fairly sure it was a posting for Friday, so it should still be readily available.
(gotta switch computers again, and clean up the kitchen first, so I may not be back. Pleasant dreams to all, and to all a good night, if you don't hear from me again.)
Bush is now saying in his stump speeches that Kerry would give other countries a veto over our decisions to defend ourselves.
Kerry, of course, has said explicitly that he would NEVER give other countries such a veto.
Bush is lying through his teeth. Once again.
This is a fine column from Friedman, until he gets to this:
Friends, I return to where I started: We're in trouble in Iraq. We have to immediately get the Democratic and Republican politics out of this policy and start honestly reassessing what is the maximum we can still achieve there and what every American is going to have to do to make it happen.
Friedman has not only been away writing a book, he's been living on a different planet if he thinks that there's any chance of George W. Fuckup doing any kind of a reassessment.
The problem here is not politics, Tommy Boy; the problem here is incompetence and ignorance.
What I get out of all this is the fact that the whole world saw w for what he is. he was finally exposed. and no amount of spin will change that. the networks finally got their revenge. they showed bush in those split images while kerry spoke...and they showed kerry while bush spoke. and everyone saw kerry standing straight and tall and calm and composed. and they saw bush as a totally bewildered child totally out of his element. there is no escaping that fact. bush reminded me of captain queeg in the caine mutiny completely coming apart on the witness stand showing the world what he really was. this is incredible. the debate was a truly historic moment in American politics. those who saw it live will talk about it the rest of their lives. and even the pundits had to qualify their remarks until they saw the public reaction. the internet rules folks.
pbb, could you please explain where tommy praised Kerry and said he should be the next President of the United States thank you.
.................
I just received my Florida absentee ballot today. Great timing, Jeb! Tonight, before I go to bed, I will light a candle to the Blessed Mother and vote for John Kerry and John Edwards. And for Betty Castor too, in Her honor!
could you please explain where tommy says to end the bog down and sucking sound and end the isolation?
.................
How is our enthusiasm on this blog going to deleteriously affect the election?
It's not.
pie | Email | Homepage | 10.02.04 - 11:07 pm | #
no way, enthusiam on this blog is how this non voter keeps up his spirits.
but we should all be writing letters to our local papers, i did today, cleaned up and much less crude than i do in here, of course. for instance, i didn't call bush a war criminal, but i really wanted to.
I dunno, Elmer Fudd just seemed kinda unprepared in that first debate.
in fact, tommy’s sob song looks like a torch song for the moronic Nanny Bremer state.
...........
ewwwww .
.............
steve thompson, do you really not get it? it isn't about getting permission from the world. it is about putting yourself in a strong position militarily instead of a weak one.
The fight is not over until Mr. Kerry is physically in the White House.
Boy, trying to keep up and serve the family a late dinner is tougher than I thought
Family dinners must be sacrificed to the greater good of the BLOG!
Sheesh, we've already sold our children to the Liberal Homosexual Conspiracy for three confiscated bibles.
Slacker.
This is actually pretty frightening shit. They have about 9000 actually trained personnel. Quite a track record for 16 months. Swell.
And also...well, this is just speculation on my part, because I don't actually know anything about it at all...but it's also possible that they're being trained by Apartheid-era South African mercenaries.
It's also possible that some of them will put the skills they learn to other uses than "keeping the peace."
"I see that Ariel Sharon is in a big hurry to kill 'em off before the next administration is sworn in."
Speaking of Ariel Sharon - I read in Haaretz yesterday that he's scheduled the Knesset vote on the disengagement plan for Nov. 1 (which is widely accepted to pass) as a "gift" to Bush right before the election.
frankly0, every time Bushie says something like that, in fact, every time Bushie says exactly that, people grok 3 things:
- Bushie still doesn’t Get it
- Bushie still continues the bog down
- Bushie will continue the isolation.
- .............
Every day, in every way, Bushie lets people know exactly what is the prollem with him.
.............
.
............
This, from kos comments--
Edwards to Cheney:
1. In the 1990s Cheney said that removal of Saddam wasn't worth that many American lives. Why the sudden turnaround?
2. Why did Cheney lie about Iraq's nuclear weapons capability?
3. Why doesn't Cheney EVER speak about Iran or North Korea's nuclear weapons programs?
4. Why did Halliburton receive a no-bid contract? Why have Halliburton and KBR been awarded no-bid contracts and undue privileges despite accusations of overcharging, overspending, and poor cost accounting?
5. Why does the Bush campaign criticize Kerry for post-Cold War military budget cuts, many of which Cheney himself proposed?
6. Was anyone in the Vice President's office responsible for leaking the name of an undercover CIA agent?
7. What does Cheney think of Ahmad Chalabi, who is now rumored to have leaked intelligence to Iran?
The list goes on and on. I hope Johnny Sunshine, like the good lawyer he is, does a LOT of homework on Mr. Cheney.
by existenz on Sat Oct 2nd, 2004 at 19:12:47 GMT
Friedman has not only been away writing a book, he's been living on a different planet if he thinks that there's any chance of George W. Fuckup doing any kind of a reassessment.
The problem here is not politics, Tommy Boy; the problem here is incompetence and ignorance.
theodoric
friedman is now on record as being a bigger fuckup than the Grand Fuckup Himself, Dubya
these media talking heads are so out of touch they haven't learned that they are quickly becoming dinosaurs in a rapidly changing world -- who needs opinion when the blogs and open opinions flourish on the web -- just give us the news and shut the fuck up, friedman (your opinions are as childish as Dubya's administration)
albert, Thursday night, on the thread titled 'Spin Consensus'. Your 'probably overwrought' comment at 10.01.04 - 12:37 am.
Is that the one?
Sofia, nobody believes Awik Shawon’s lousy votes on anything and nobody believes his withdrawal bamboozle promises either.
......................
i actually met some close freinds of tom freidman, from minnesota. i tried to be polite, but i told them he was an asshole on his iraq war position. they said "well you know he's jewish" not that there is anything wrong with that. just say'n.
i used to always respect freidmans talk on the mid east 'cause i know he has some expertise on it. but when i heard him tell pumpkin head 'we did iraq because we could, and we needed to bash some arab heads together' well, then i lost all respect. and he has not gained it back.
How is our enthusiasm on this blog going to deleteriously affect the election?
It's not.
pie
Been trying to think of a way,
but you put it perfectly.
Thank You Pie.
Kerry/Edwards In A LANDSLIDE!!
How is our enthusiasm on this blog going to deleteriously affect the election?
I dont have a clue.Enthusiasium is good,overconfidence is bad.
If we keep our heads and do whats necessary we can win.If we fail to pay attentiondue to overconfidence all is lost.
Enjoy the victory,by all means.Dont get lost in the fog of it.
Ice T once penned some lyrics in the early 90's that sound eerily relevant for today (I was reminded because I just happened across the old CD a few mintues ago):
God damn what a brother gotta do
To get a message through
To the red white and blue
What? I gotta die? Before you realize
I was a brother with open eyes
The world's insane
While you drink champagne
And I'm livin' in black rain
You try to ban the A.K.
I got ten of 'em stashed
With a case of hand grenades
You'd know what to do
If a bullet hit your kid
On the way to school
Or a cop shot your kid in the back yard
Shit would hit the fan, motherfucker and it would hit real hard!
I hear it every night, another gun fight
The tension mounts
On with the body count!
God damn what a brother gotta do
To get a message through
To the red, white and you?
What? I gotta die? Before you realize
I was a brother with open eyes
The world's insane
While you drink champagne
And I'm livin' in black rain
Don't you hear the guns?
You stupid, dumb, dick suckin'
Bum politicians
Wow, T.. Good stuff!
Friedman has been living on Awik Shawon’s back pocket .
..........
It tends to cloud the judgment.
............
Just saying.
.............
Slightly OT, but ---
Did anybody see that asshole from the
Club For Growth on Bill Maher's show
last night?
He's supposed to be this rigorous, serious
conservative guy and he was the biggest giggling idiot I've seen
in ages. A total embarassment.
anyone remember when tommy said, let’s just go in there and get this iWaq thing over with.
..........
Well, is it over yet, tommy.
..........
just asking.
...........
The fight is not over until Mr. Kerry is physically in the White House.
You misunderestimate the Schutzstaffel.
these media talking heads are so out of touch they haven't learned that they are quickly becoming dinosaurs in a rapidly changing world -- who needs opinion when the blogs and open opinions flourish on the web -- just give us the news and shut the fuck up, friedman (your opinions are as childish as Dubya's administration)
come all ye writers and critics...
don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.
religion does not predispose to lack of judgement .
.........
Ya have to lose it all by yerself.
...........
tommy’s religion is no excuse.
...........
that was stupid of tommy, but even stupider is that he has no plan for ending the bog down and sucking sound.
....................
don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.
"The pump don't work 'cause the vandals took the handle."
a "gift" to Bush right before the election.
Oh, I see. I thought the gift was the offering of corpses from Kahn Yunis.
Hey, for all you Cary Grant fans out there: remember the movie "Father Goose"?
Tuesday night's wrestling match features:
Goody Two-Shoes vs. The Filthy Beast.
steve s.,
Yeah, what was with that guy? He kept snickering after he defended Bush like it was all a big joke we didn't get. He reminded me of a toady, only he had no bully to back.
And Tucker Carlson? Don't even get me fucking started....
Elmer Fudd just seemed kinda unprepared in that first debate.
That's Elmer Befuddled. Business Week said so.
SNL is doing the debate...
no other Presidential candidate has ever offered the "Kerry Doctrine" of not defending America unless he gets permission from the "world"
oh, horseshit. I clearly remember sixteen years ago, when the nutjobs of the right wing were terrified that George Herbert Walker Bush's New World Order was gradually subverting American independence.
They were full of shit then, and you're full of it now.
(It worked last night)
Oh Atrios, why hast thou forsaken us?
The test that Kerry mentioned is as old as the US. Simply read the first sentence of the Declaration of Independence. Our country was founded on this very principle: If you go to war, you have to carefully explain why. Bush ignored our country's founding document.
Check out Saturday Night Live now!
Enjoy the victory,by all means.Dont get lost in the fog of it.
smalfish
I intend to keep up the work and wear the swagger of inevitability. In all of the recent handwringing that has gone on people forget that scardycats are less likely to be convincing to fence sitters than confident people embracing the aura of inevitability. Just sayin',
Kerry/Edwards In A LANDSLIDE!!
Did someone call Bush Elmer Fudd? This is Bush in Elmer Fudd speak
In Iwaq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hawd wowk. It's incwedibwy hawd. You know why? Because an enemy weawizes the stakes. Oh, dat scwewy wabbit! De enemy undewstands a fwee Iwaq wiww be a majow defeat in theiw ideowogy of hatwed. Dat's why they'we fighting so vocifewouswy.
This is the engine that converts, by the way: http://tinyurl.com/4udkp
SNL is starting with debate spoof
on now
SNL!
NOW!
phase two: the lulling phase...
Atrios must be out late 2 nights in a row. What a madman.
OT- big dog on c-span closing
next Gore V. Bush
here's my new strategy for Big John - WWCWD: What would Christopher Walken Do? for the next round of debate rebuttals:
-Next post debate spin: "You tell the angels in heaven you've never seen evil so singularly personified than in the face of the man who killed you."
-Next time Dubya says flipflop: "I'm the anit-christ, and you got me in a vendetta kinda mood."
-When Dubya asks for extra time and gets the deer in the headlights look: "Guys, if I don't bleed to death pretty soon, I'm gonna die of boredom."
-The next time Dubya mentions 'hard work': "Buckwheats, Jimmy."
-Rebuttal to the Libural charge: "I'm an angel. I kill newborns while their mamas watch. I turn cities into salt. And occasionally, when I feel like it, I tear little girls apart. And from now till kingdom come... the only thing you can count
on... in your existence... is never understanding why."
-About his long senatorial relationship with McCain: "Five long years, he wore this watch up his ass. Then when he died of dysentery, he gave me the watch. I hid this uncomfortable piece of metal up my ass for two years. Then, after seven years, I was sent home to my family. And now, little man, I give the watch to you."
-Comparison between Laura and Teresa: "Women. Nothing surprises me Chip, except your late mother. Who'da thought she had a brain to damage. Bottom line, she tries to blackmail me, I'll drop her out a higher window. Meantime, I got better fish to fry."
-On the field conditions in Iraq: "Tell me, Dubya, if a piss drunk sergeant has a loaded .45 pointed at the head of a piece of dung that the piss drunk sergeant hates and despises, how would you describe the situation?"
working.. working hard.... every day... working evenings... ordering in....
Workin' hard....
HHhhhaaaaaa Haa ha!
split screen is saving this election!
hi hi hi
"Your plan is to crush he terrorists by working n Saturdays?" "If that' what it takes."
The guy doing Kerry sucks pretty much......
"Sofia, nobody believes Awik Shawon’s lousy votes on anything and nobody believes his withdrawal bamboozle promises either."
Actually, I think the American media DOES believe (or at least propagates) Sharon's BS and that's what matters, unfortunatly.
Anyway, even if the vote does pass in the Knesset, will anyone notice, right before the election? Doubt it.
Thersites' read: "They have nothing to spoof on Kerry."
we work hard it's hard work
hi hi hi
The guy playing bush is spot on.....
"Sofia, nobody believes Awik Shawon’s lousy votes on anything and nobody believes his withdrawal bamboozle promises either."
Actually, I think the American media DOES believe (or at least propagates) Sharon's BS and that's what matters, unfortunatly.
Anyway, even if the vote does pass in the Knesset, will anyone notice, right before the election? Doubt it.
thiis thread has hit 600 posts
Atrios must be at his mate Bruce gig again
Tuesday Edwards can have a Bentson/Quayle
moment after Cheney get's a question like this one which is sure to come: "You have said on the campaign trail that John Kerry is unfit to be commander in chief, why do you believe that?"
After Cheney gives his response, Edwards should say something like this:
"You know what, you have allot of nerve Mr Vice President, John Kerry went to Vietnam when our Nation called him to serve,
the Navy awarded him 3 purple hearts,
a bronze, and a silver star. He even has a piece of metal in his leg today.
And you Mr. Cheney, when our Nation called, you asked for 5 deferments, count 'em 1 2 3 4 5 . (counting with his fingers for dramatic effect) And John Kerry is not qualified to be our Commander in Chief? Mr. Vice President, (pause) you should be ashamed of yourself.
Some thoughts on the "lone ranger" v.
the "global test" idea:
"What is at stake is more than one small country, it is a big idea—a new world order, where diverse nations are drawn together in common cause to achieve the universal aspirations of mankind: peace and security, freedom, and the rule of law. Such is a world worthy of our struggle, and worthy of our children's future."
- George H. W. Bush's State of the Union Address, Envisioning One Thousand Points of Light
Given on Tuesday, January 29, 1991
http://tinyurl.com/4vano
AND IT'S A HARD RAINS A
GONNA FALL-A-ALL
Excellent poetry thread!
Pressure must be brought to bear on Media and Congress. Writing congresscritters and including threats to vote against them is a good way to get them on board. Dems have let too many things slide through that shouldn't ...way too many. We need to move back towards the liberal ideas the country was founded on before the dam breaks and we lose everything. We need to watch out for each other, and I mean everyone, the real Global Test. We are brothers and sisters under one sun, with this fragile rock to care for. Republican philosophy is not good for the vast majority of humans, only for the few lucky white ones. A revolution of the kind recommended by Ghandi and King. Simple gestures. Perhaps a national one-day strike against media, buy no papers or magazines, watch no TV. Organized letter tirades to our reps. Making our voices heard over this lying, cheap, crummy excuse for a fourth estate we're stuck with. We have been brought together, and our strength is now newsworthy and we can see results here and there. We have power, as Dean was prescient enough to say. And by the way, the field of Dems, excepting Lieberman and maybe Sharpton (though I like him) is a pretty good bench for a new Prez to ghoose cabinet members from, much better than the assortment of crooks and scam artists GWB puked up on us. And Ashcroft! By the way, Kerry and Edwards with the Patriot act? Ooops!
Fight.
Fight.
FIGHT!
When Kerry gets elected, they'd better find someone better to play him.
the parody of Dubya is much more damaging than the parody of JFK
but both are right on
is it because i hate dubya so much?
Really really bad debate spoof. Will it ever end?
This has to be the longest opening segment I've ever seen.
They could have just had them read from the actual transcripts and it would be funnier.
is it because i hate dubya so much?
Kim or Cym
No the bush "it's hard" parody is right on!
FUCK SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE. THAT PIECE WAS BULLSHIT. THEY LIED ABOUT KERRY. THE REPRESENTATION OF BUSH WAS DEAD ON.
Just watched the "debate" on SNL: The guy who played Kerry was annoying and, yeah, they did the "flip-flopper" thing for Kerry, but they were just brutal on Bush - they made him look like a drooling, incoherent moron (well, more drooling and incoherent than he already is).
They stuck it to both sides, but it was much more anti-Bush than anti-Kerry, just my opinion.
This hs been a problem with political comedy for a while: they feel like it's unfair to take position. So what end up happening is they spoof both sides and end up taking no stand. That's not satire, it's adolescent snarkiness.
Tina, you ignorant slut.
The Kerry spoof on SNL was really lame. I guess that's the best they could come up with. But the Bush one was perfect.
I have to agree with Anon at 11:49 pm.
What was most accurate in the skit, "It's hard, frankly I don't understand why my opponent would even want the job.'
And KH at 11:50.....
Happy Birthday, Tena!
Skipped to the bottom so I could get it in before midnight - I got about 3/4 of the thread yet to read.
so.....when is Osama coming out of the freezer.....before the second or third debate ???????
Tuesday Edwards can have a Bentson/Quayle moment...
Brilliant, Jesus D.
*
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquir.../9814873.htm?
1c
"Voters Swell Pa. Rolls
Officials are scrambling to get all the names on the books by Election Day.
By Tom Infield
Inquirer Staff Writer
Tens of thousands of names are being added to the rolls of eligible Pennsylvania voters.
With Monday the deadline for people to register to vote, election officials say they haven't seen so much political interest in years, even decades.
They attribute that to the intense battleground that Pennsylvania has become as one of a few big states that could swing either way Nov 2.
"People feel very strongly: I know I do," said Tom Colman, a Chester County Republican who was knocking on doors last weekend in Devon, trying to enroll people to vote.
A day or two earlier, in Philadelphia's Germantown section, a pro-Democratic worker said she was not surprised by what she found in the 5500 block of Crowson Street: Everybody she met on the long block of rowhouses was already signed up.
"This late in the game, there are an awful lot of people who are registered," said Kimberlyn Short, who works for America Coming Together, a group trying to oust President Bush that says it alone has registered 130,000 people in Pennsylvania.
The major parties and their allies have mounted an unprecedented effort to increase the number of voters in geographic areas and among demographic groups in which they believe their candidate will do well.
Across the Philadelphia region, Democrats appear to be making comparative gains. This is true not only in the city, but also in the four suburban counties, where Democrats have been partially eroding long-standing GOP majorities for a decade."
Tena - Happy Birthday! We're all celebrating with you - face it trolls, you could bring in an eighteen-wheeler full of troll poop and it wouldn't diminish our spirits now.
And the best is yet to come. Cheers!
-
Global test. In the real world.
Not on fantasy island.
"De Plane! De Plane."
I know Dick Cheney, I worked with Dick Cheney, Dick Cheney is a friend of mine. I CAN TELL YOU, DICK CHENEY IS NO DAN QUAYLE.
before the second or third debate?
I think Osama will come out between the 2nd and third,but earlier than originally planed after Bush dismal performance thursday
I think people will walk away from the SNL debate thinking Bush is an incompetent moron more than thinking Kerry is a panderer.
It also helps us, since SNL Bush stammered for about 4 minutes and the SNL Kerry only spoke for like 30 seconds.
Normally, I wouldn't care about satire...but the hard truth is MANY undecideds use the SNL Debate as a barometer as to whether they like the candidates or not.
Look how Dana Carvey sank Bush's re-election effort...or how Darrell Hammond's Al Gore turned alot of people against him. Whether you like it or not, the SNL Debates are just as important as the real ones.
Osama is safe in Pakistan, currently undergoing kidney dialysis.
I know Dick Cheney, I worked with Dick Cheney, Dick Cheney is a friend of mine.
Dick Cheney is no mammal!
OOhhh.... Ohhhh.. SNL!
The october surprise= George Bush will give a heart-felt apology for all his mistakes. The country will accept the apology and he will be reelected.
The problem here is not politics, Tommy Boy; the problem here is incompetence and ignorance.
The problem here is a complete divorce from reality. Who does he think Democrats and Republicans are? Body-snatchers? Does he imagine aliens take over our politics every four years, and the rest of the time, it's true representative democracy in one giant town hall meeting?
Tell me again why this guy won a Pulitzer, and gets prime space on the NYT Op-Ed page.
Family dinners must be sacrificed to the greater good of the BLOG!
Sheesh, we've already sold our children to the Liberal Homosexual Conspiracy for three confiscated bibles.
Slacker.
Well, resistance is futile.
I hopw a confession and a mea culpa in the morning will suffice.
The swift vets thing is fun on snl! stop moaning you all!
Of course it's an arbitray number; but it's the one in play. I don't know how long it will take either, but Kerry has guesstimated 4 years, Bush has said "when we win." -RMJ
"When we win" is the better statement to make, since it is at least allows a set of guidelines for "winning" to be argued, formulated, and achieved. Saying "4 years" is idiotic because you're basically saying "no matter what in 4 years we're out," so why not just leave immediately? Why even have that 4 year timetable? You've declared you're not approaching withdrawal in a results based way, you just need a little time to work out the logistics to leave it in some state or another. If you give jack shit about the results and just want some empty promise about getting out at a certain point, why not go ahead and leave now?
Since my analysis precludes any such "victory" as Bush must envision, I picked Kerry's arbitrary number as a point of reference. -ibid
Because if Kerry wins his arbitrary date will suddenly become relevant to reality? Also, when it's 50/50 (or 47/45), to have an analysis that doesn't (read: is unable, unwilling, and could care less) take into account what is 45% likely to happen is ridiculous! "Ok, we'll flip a coin to decide what to do tonight. Heads we go to the movies. (flip). It tails, so uh... DAMN! Now we can do NOTHING!" Yeah, that doesn't work.
Nothing more, nothing less. You want to establish a new reference point, go ahead. But Kerry's is one easily recognized by one and all. -ibid
The new reference point: When an intra-Iraq balance of power (between the moderate clerics, ex-Baathists, al-Sadr types, CIA-folk, etc.) is achieved, "vamos!" This is imperfect and incomplete of course, all solutions to this mess are. But it's a hell of a lot better than rolling a die to see how many more years we're going to stay without a conversation about what our end goals are for the status of the country.
We broke it, we bought it, and the warranty doesn't run out in four years.
The swift vets thing is fun on snl! stop moaning you all!
It was so fucking funny!
minnie,
he writes two columns a week. give him one more to state Bush is deadending. Frankly, he doesn't have a choice than to support Kerry. Bush is more of the same.
So, Tommy isn't going to get wholesale change from HIM. Only from Kerry.
SNL swiftboats ad was classic. I loved the "makes model boats like the one Kerry served on" qualifier for one of the pseudo-swifties. They just nailed it.
-
More on SNL.....
Affleck doing Carville...
Affleck as Carville rocks
SNL does the swiftboat liars!
SWEET
Night all, but before you snooze, go check out Mr. Friedman at the NYT.
Yes, he's back, and he IS PISSED.
Big dog doing the room service!
LOL!
Daryl Hammond is on fire!
Sorry, pbb. I composed my note independently of yours. As I said in a previous thread: "There's a saying in Florida, I know it's in New Jersey, I guess it's in Florida, 'Great minds, uh, ....er, are better than one.'"
My God, I miss Clinton.....
Sorry to whine.
Troll In Black & White, by anonymous
"You can run, Teresa...but I'll...ketchup" - Clinton
Hammond is God!
Big picture: no false spin of the debate. Kerry still wins.
Oh, lord, first I have to deal with "anonymous."
"When we win" is the better statement to make, since it is at least allows a set of guidelines for "winning" to be argued, formulated, and achieved. Saying "4 years" is idiotic because you're basically saying "no matter what in 4 years we're out," so why not just leave immediately?
First: define "win." Saddam was a brutal dictator who held together three fractious factions. He did it by being a brutal dictator. What's your solution for us? Candy bars and cigarettes? That was Cheney's plan, apparently. It didn't work. Got something else in mind? Kill enough of 'em 'til they start to see reason? Study human history: Europe stopped colonizing and finally gave it up because the "natives" refused to stop killing the representatives of the colonial power. We are in the same position, and the only way out, is through the door. In four months, or four years; but not after a "victory."
There won't be one. Unless we want to replace Hussein, with our own Hussein.
And actually, leaving now would be fine with me. But, as I said, then you have the black hole scenario. Or maybe not. What we have here is Israel invading Lebanon. They finally cut their losses and simply left. Once they did, things started improving. Why didn't they do it sooner? Or Vietnam, an even better analogy. Nixon's "secret plan" to end the war could have been implemented in '67, and saved a lot of lives. But, like Bush, he wanted to get re-elected. So we ran in '75.
Either way, the end date, like the end of WWI, was completely arbitrary.
Just like the date for the invasion.
Frankly, he doesn't have a choice than to support Kerry.
Jesus, that's all we need, Friedman giving stupid advice to Kerry twice a week. He's like Powell, whatever cred he had years ago is totally gone.
and do it with "relish"
that's rich!
Hammond is god
That last post was long enough, and I wanted to leave you with this, from the NYT:
To the Editor:
Paul Krugman is wrong to think that America's standing in the world has generated animosity largely as a result of this administration's policies. To claim that three years ago America was both feared and respected is to romanticize a political reality that never existed. The underlying currents that galvanize anti-Americanism - that America is hypocritical and arrogant - were neither born with this administration nor will they die with it.
What really changed was that after Sept. 11, 2001, the American public became more attuned to that chorus of anti-Americanism because it realized that this was no longer merely a political popularity contest but a matter of life and death.
Nikos Tsafos
Athens, Oct. 1, 2004
But have we realized it? That is the question. Far as I can see, so long as it's somebody else's life and death, there isn't enough concern about what's going on.
But then, on the war, I'm a confirmed pessimist. Or a Calvinist. Hard to tell the difference, sometimes.
Hudson-- thanks for the headsup
just read Friedman's op-ed piece
primo stuff
about the iraq war, it's over. bush or kerry, it's over. nothing left now but the body count. question is how many?
meanwhile al-qaeda, and the hyrdra.
but let's be clear (as condi might say) it's bush's fault. he fundamentally undermined the 'war on terror'
ha, ha, pbb, we’ll see.
.............
I still see tommy shilling for the moronic Nanny Bremer state .
.............
More of Tom Friedman's return-with-a-vengeance:
Being away has not changed my belief one iota in the importance of producing a decent outcome in Iraq, to help move the Arab-Muslim world off its steady slide toward increased authoritarianism, unemployment, overpopulation, suicidal terrorism and religious obscurantism. But my time off has clarified for me, even more, that this Bush team can't get us there, and may have so messed things up that no one can. Why? Because each time the Bush team had to choose between doing the right thing in the war on terrorism or siding with its political base and ideology, it chose its base and ideology. More troops or radically lower taxes? Lower taxes. Fire an evangelical Christian U.S. general who smears Islam in a speech while wearing the uniform of the U.S. Army or not fire him so as not to anger the Christian right? Don't fire him. Apologize to the U.N. for not finding the W.M.D., and then make the case for why our allies should still join us in Iraq to establish a decent government there? Don't apologize - for anything - because Karl Rove says the "base" won't like it. Impose a "Patriot Tax" of 50 cents a gallon on gasoline to help pay for the war, shrink the deficit and reduce the amount of oil we consume so we send less money to Saudi Arabia? Never. Just tell Americans to go on guzzling. Fire the secretary of defense for the abuses at Abu Ghraib, to show the world how seriously we take this outrage - or do nothing? Do nothing. Firing Mr. Rumsfeld might upset conservatives. Listen to the C.I.A.? Only when it can confirm your ideology. When it disagrees - impugn it or ignore it.
Beautiful.
My thing about Friedman's column is simple:
he--a supporter of invasion--is saying Bush etc messed it up by going for politically rewards not tactical victory in the War on Terra.
That's our argument, Minnie.
Actually, Ronjazz, I'm "anonymous," just Haloscan keeps dumping my name and I didn't remember to fill it in the first time, and decided it was pointless to start once the conversation had already begun. And in case you hadn't noticed haloscan's virtual format, it's lack of personal "profiles" or "histories," and the the ease of changing screennames here makes us ALL anonymous.
Unless, of course, your name is Ronjazz, it always has been, and you do not exist except for a few lines every once and a while on a weblog forum. In that case, I guess we know all about you and you aren't anonymous.
And if I'm a "troll in black and white," I guess Friedman is one in newspaper gray: "Being away has not changed my belief one iota in the importance of producing a decent outcome in Iraq, to help move the Arab-Muslim world off its steady slide toward increased authoritarianism, unemployment, overpopulation, suicidal terrorism and religious obscurantism."
OH DEAR! He's for a decent outcome in IRaq doesn't even proffer the caveat of an arbitrary timetable because he knows that's pointless!
PS, I'm going to continue to use "anonymous" in the discussion with RMJ.
BushCo's War on Competence claims another victim.
U.S. Cybersecurity Chief Abruptly Resigns
By TED BRIDIS, AP Technology Writer
WASHINGTON - The government's cybersecurity chief has abruptly resigned from the Homeland Security Department amid a concerted campaign by the technology industry and some lawmakers to persuade the Bush administration to give him more authority and money for protection programs.
Affleck doing Carville is probably the best role I've seen Affleck in.
ha, ha, another shill for tommy. .
............
still no takers for the moronic Nanny Bremer state.
............
Just remember, Joey Marshmallow even lost Delaware.
.............
bog down and sucking sound just ain’t popular.
.............
Tommy has to come up with a plan to end the bog down and end the isolation.
............
Oh and he’ll have to figure out how to kiss up to Kerry in a credible way.
...........
Just saying.
...........
Since my analysis precludes any such "victory" as Bush must envision, I picked Kerry's arbitrary number as a point of reference. -ibid
Funny what you don't notice until you read it again.
Do I really have to explain that "point of reference" referred to a discussion about what to do in Iraq? Apparently I do. Which means the rest of that post is based on a willful misreading of my original.
On which note, bedtime. Goodnight sweet ladies goonight goonight
Weekend update......
The underlying currents that galvanize anti-Americanism - that America is hypocritical and arrogant - were neither born with this administration nor will they die with it.
He's right, obviously, and I remember being angry myself at some of the responses that the hard core left had towards 9/11.
But, what he's not taking into account is the fact that Bush's policies have come close to confirming a lot of people in their opinions that their anti-Americanism was justified. By invading Iraq, he gave them the excuse to tell themselves that they were right all along.
For example, before Abu Ghraib, a lot of people in the Middle East certainly thought that Americans were oversexed, sadistic bullies who wanted to humiliate Muslims just for the sake of doing it.
Did we have to go and prove them right?
yeah, pbb, I got the boo hoo hoo part of tommy’s, where do you see him stumping for Kerry and ending the bog down and sucking sound.
....................
I can't wait till Tuesday to see Edwards in his debate against Dick(head)Cheney(bangy)! I think he will do good. I hope he slams Cheneys record right up his ass! They keep talking about Kerry's record they need to look at Cheney's it really sucks! Here is just a few facts about Cheney's record........
1) Voted no to establish a Department of Education (1979)
2) Voted yes to approve anti-busing amendment (1979)
3)Voted yes to reject hospital cost control plan (1979)
4)Opposed funding Clean Water Act (1980)
5) Voted to postpone sanctions slapped on air polluters that failed to meet pollution standards (1980)
6) Voted against legistlastion to require oil, chemical,and other industries from making public records of emissions known to known to cause cancer, birth defects, and other chronic diseases (1980)
7) Voted against Equal Rights Amendment for Women (1983)
Voted against a ban on armor piercing "cop killer" bullets (1985)
9) Opposed Ronald Reagan's tax over haul (1985)
10) Voted yes to weaken gun control laws (1986)
11) Voted against a ban on plastic guns that could slip through airport security machines undetected (198
As Wyoming's representative in the House of Rrepresentives, Cheney had a strongly conservative voting record. He opposed the Equal Rights Amendment, abortion rights, and a mandatory seven-day waiting period prior to handgun purchases. He also opposed making Martin Luther King Day a federal holiday in the honor of him.
Affleck doing Carville is probably the best role I've seen Affleck in.
rorschach- good. i've never been a fan of Friedman's-- BUT at least he has had the balls to publically admit that he was wrong about the war --- i still think there are lots of amerikans, call them 'moderates' or whatever, who still think it's unpatriotic to criticize the war- perhaps a right-leaning mainstream
pundnut like TF will help them realize that they can voice their own doubts -- it's like training 2-yr olds or dogs, you need to reward the appropropriate behavior, however late in coming...
The opening SNL skit reinforces a republican talking point. The average voter does not have the information or cognitive skills to see it's not true. Further, they will look for raw aestethetic cues that it is not true. They will not find any. Any politician tagged with this will offer up enough aesthetic cues to reinforce it. The Bush satire is merely transitory. All Bush has to do is sound a little more coherent and the criticism vanishes. Kerry is trapped, if a voter buys into this there is nothing he can say or do that will signal it's not true.
basically tommy is just like the hand-wringing tokyo rosies like Kenny Boy Pollack and David Halberstam who supported DaWo and started bawling 5 seconds after the topple.
.........
he’s only held out a little longer, but he is whining for the same moronic Nanny Bremer state.
...........
There's another old saying: A penny saved...in time...kills, uh, two great minds...in glass houses. So don't throw stones.
if you want to know why we need gun control and/or measures to keep assault guns of the streets, watch MSNBC right now to see the North Hollywood shootout .. pretty sick shit
eek -- no spellcheck in haloscan
Another thing to consider - here's a breakdown of Newsweek's sample:
http://
politicalvicesquad.blogsp...dissonance.html
Notice the oversampling of Republicans when they had Bush way up? Notice the oversampling of Democrats now - and they have Kerry up? I'm not sure you can trust anything about their polls.
The other polls are all showing a fairly steady 3-5 point advantage for Bush, so it looks like Newsweek is - and has been - an outlier
Halberstam, I can’t recall what he is for, I think he was for turn over to a benevolent despot, but I am shore he will tell us soon enough .
..............
Robert M. Jeffers - cogent analysis, as usual.
The only "mission accomplished" was that of destabilizing the country. Of course, we can play "aren't you glad Saddam isn't in power," but that just obscures the real issue.
Almost every country arbitrarily cobbled together by colonial powers has fallen apart unless a dictator was in charge and holding it together.
In addition to Iraq, think post-Tito Yugoslavia. Even a relatively (politically) advanced country like Czechoslavokia fragmented along nationalist lines.
It doesn't matter if we pull out in 4 months or 4 years. The result will either be a dictatorship holding the current boundaries or an Iraq divided into new countries based on national and religious identities.
The real tragedy is that almost anyone with an interest in recent international history could have (and did) predicted this outcome prior to the war.
I'm willing to bet that there are a few State Department studies that got buried because they addressed this point.
-
At this point, I figure the more voices that turn against Bush's war, the better. We can worry about the rest after November.
anon, don’t kid yourself, Kerry is surging because people want an end to the bog down and sucking sound.
..........
Just saying.
..........
Happy 29th, TENA!
Keep it up!
ha, ha, ha, kim or cym, I did not see where tommy says, gee, I should not have said, let’s just bust into iWaq and get this iWaq thing over with.
........................
Oh, that Tony on SNL! Whaddaya mean I can't say that? I just did.
BTW,there is something more worth reading in the NYT, by Frank Rich,
The Passion of The Bush
mistyforkerry:
Cheney was also STAUNCHLY pro-Apartheid. And though I'm not certain, I'm pretty sure he voted against the "Prevention of Genocide Act" that would've cut US $$$ to Saddam Hussein.
Hashish, funny.....
oh wow, Bushie must be getting ready to pull the troopsies out or at least promise to do that.
..................
anon, don’t kid yourself, Kerry is surging because people want an end to the bog down and sucking sound.
bingo ... and you should hear the wingnuts on the radio since thursday night ... it sounds like the end of the world is coming and that the preznut is the only guy who can save us
reminds me of the ending sequences of the titanic .. when the hull flipped up and started sliding into the freezing ocean with all the people splashing ... these guys are freaking out because the rethug campaign hit the brick wall - nothing new to campaign on, just tired old assertions
except of course, if Bushie were to yawl about pulling the troopsies out, nobody would believe him.
...........
Just saying.
..............
anon @12:24am:
SNL is a commercial network tv show
i'm sure their Repug advertisers wouldn't like it if they didn't diss Kerry as well
don't expect too much from 'em-- SNL isn't watched as much by the 'stoned slacker'* demographic anymore
* O'Reilly re: TDS
The only reason I'm lowering my expectations a bit for this second debate (oddly enough) is because it's going to be about domestic and not foreign policy.
I'm not saying that Bush knows anything about domestic policy or can beat Kerry in a debate. But I do think that it will be harder to rattle him because his self-image is less tied up in it.
Simply put, Bush couldn't give a rat's ass how many unemployed people there are. His self-image is completely tied up in his sense of himself as a War President and as John Wayne. That's why he was so pissed that Kerry went after him.
When Kerry goes after him on the economy, Bush is simply going to mouth some lines about taxes and about being pro-business and not really lose it.
Robert Jeffers, I hope you saw my explanation and the fact that I, anonymous, am Apophenia, etc. etc.
First: define "win." - Robert M Jeffers
As already stated achieve a balance of power in Iraq among the factions so that they have a stake in the democratic process. This will reduce the unofficial insurgency and allow some level of control (by Iraq, the UN, or the US) of the factional violence, particularly allow us to keep the bombings to political offices and the HELL away from kids getting candy. It's a pretty low threshold for "victory," and doesn't demand we leave the place better than we found it. But it at least tries to ensure Iraq has the basis to help themselves. If that's not to your liking, how about Friedman's "a decent Iraq" as a definition of victory? That seemed a bit vague to me, but of course I agree.
And actually, leaving now would be fine with me. -ibid
Ok, and that's fair. You don't care what happens in Iraq, at least not enough to ensure that it doesn't happen. I am of military recruitment age, I am not going to Iraq, obviously I don't care enough to do that. Then why even tacitly support Kerry's 4 year plan? You aren't FOR a timetable at ALL, you're for America to get out. So stop coming up with numbers you don't even believe in and admit are arbitrary!
Either way, the end date, like the end of WWI, was completely arbitrary. -ibid
Yeah, uh, and look how that turned out. The after effects of the completely arbitrary end of WWI SURE TURNED OUT WELL!!! It's already likely to happen, but are you really that interested in what Iraqi wounded by Americans will write "Mein Jihad?" Separately, and more on the point, it doesn't matter what happened at the end of WWI. What a weird, inappropriate analogy.
I am seeing KE04 bumper stickers in ... RURAL IDAHO, folks!
Never, ever seen a dem sticker out here in thirty years.
Also, if Rove is so smart, why did he let the race get so close? Is pulling Osama out of the hat on Halloween really going to do it for them. I wonder if the public hasn't already discounted that.
OSU 27, Northwestern 27
oh wow, Bushie must be getting ready to pull the troopsies out or at least promise to do that.
is that a mixed message?
I’m still thinking they want Bushie to yawl for a pull out just like he yawled for a handover, but I also think Bushie left it too late to have any creds whatsoever.
..........
Plus, if he does that, his hardcore supporter base will dump his sorry tuchas.
...........
Half of it, that is.
...........
A very happy Birthday, Tena. Librans rule. Pie,darling,clean your apartment.
SNL was pretty lame-oy,do I miss the inspired lunacy of Will Ferrell. Were were the pouty lips and blinking eyes? Bush gave them so much material, but they blew it.
I hate polls. Polls mean nothing more than a fart in the wind.
syntallic, they are despo to try anything .
..........
I think they just left the hokey till too late, yawled too hard about not changing anything and now are locked in to their positions.
.........
It's already likely to happen, but are you really that interested in what Iraqi wounded by Americans will write "Mein Jihad?"
Um, er, had we been a bit more interested in the fallout from the last war in Iraq (the consequences of stationing troops in Saudi Arabia) 3000 people in NYC might still be alive today.
people won’t worry about mixed messages, they simply will not believe Bushie’s last minute desperation fantasy promises .
............
BTW,there is something more worth reading in the NYT, by Frank Rich,
The Passion of The Bush
Karin
great piece ... right to the heart of the matter .. Frank Rich: Now on DVD: The Passion of the Bush
passion of the bush? is that kinda like Hard On for a Shrub?
If you go by yard signs, which is as reliable as anything else, in my neighborhood Kerry was losing 5-2 before the debate. Today he's winning 7-6.
Tea leaves, people. Entrails of a goat.
Happy birthday, Tena! Libras do rule; just ask my sister...
What I want to know is, did I see Philalethes write earlier that he blew a couple hundred bucks on CD's?
I dream of a splurge like that. Tell us what you bought.
Take this poll to prevent co-option of Kerry debate victory.
question of the day
I think they just left the hokey till too late, yawled too hard about not changing anything and now are locked in to their positions.
.........
MinnieB9
i think the "wonderfully orchestrated" coronation in NYC (if you believe the whackjobs on talking head tv) just backfired on the preznut
they offered nothing and it's getting clearer by the day - "we'll keep you safe in the trailer parks, but we'll fuck up the war" is about the best spin I can put on it
The Swifties know their guy got his ass handed to him and this is what they come up with:
http://www2.swiftvets.com/phpBB2...pic.php?
t=11505
I seem to remember from switching around from channel to channel that they had cameras behind the podiums as well. Seeing that the cameras are owned by FUX, I'm pretty sure that they would be all over this in a heartbeat if there was any validity to it. Still, it'd be worth the effort to nip this in the bud, if possible. Anyone care to debunk this ass-clownery ?
Libras do rule; just ask my sister...
rorschach
amen, bro ... libras do rule
Is anyone else creeped out by the Burger King commercial where the guy wakes up in bed with the weirdly masked Burger King?
Nightmare material for me.
Um, er, had we been a bit more interested in the fallout from the last war in Iraq (the consequences of stationing troops in Saudi Arabia) 3000 people in NYC might still be alive today. -SWR
Um, er, I never said otherwise. Who are you arguing against here? Maybe if you provide me with a quote where I say "Thank God we stayed in Saudi Arabia so we could get the oil to run this super awesome Iraq war!" I'll put up a fight...
As it is, I'm not a troll (sorry), and I'm not for American hegemony round the globe, I just thought Jeffers' arguments were ridiculous and arbitrary. You're reacting to some chimera here as yes, I agree, if ONLY we'd left SA in 1991 as we should of much of this would either never have happened of not been as widespread and virulent.
Mein Jihad
What a great name for a band! Thera Veda Punk!
Rock. On.
Happy Birthday, Tena. I remember when we were battling trolls on the front lines together and now, here you are, with your own blog and everything.
Just buy my book in January.
Northwestern wins!
I'm sure the swifties are analyzing the tape to see if Kerry was actually debating the preznut or if he was speaking directly to teresa in the audience
but if you watch jenna/not jenna they were getting more and more excited about big john and were wearing their janeane garafalo masks by the 30th minute
Central S. -
I haven't seen that commercial but I'm creeped out by your description as it is... someone has a mask that is a hamburger? hee hee. nightmares for sure1
*
Happy birthday, TENA! Best wishes.
(My earlier post was directed at Tina Fey after that disappointing debate skit on SNL. Tina Fey was named head writer in 1999, but now I find that she shares the head writer title with Dennis McNicholas.)
Philalethes:
Your probally right. Hell his record so bad it take all day to put it all up on blog lol!
Libras rule big time. I am one!
*
fortunately unskilled -
I live in a conservative Houston suberb and among all those stupid ass W04 stickers I see many Kerry/Edwards stickers. More than there has any right to be here in 'neckville. Also, I noticed that somebody put up Kerry/Edwards and Morrison (the opponent of Bugman DeLay) signs next to the giant Bush/Cheney/DeLay signs.
I'm ecstatic.
Um, er, I never said otherwise. Who are you arguing against here?
Your dumbass line about Mein Jihad obviously.
Enjoy.
But let's not get cocky and let us not underestimate the enemy.
The lies will come of the darkness like cockroaches, colossal, legion, and with acid for blood. They're going to get it all over everyone and it will corrode what is left of political civility.
Yes, if Kerry is elected, he may well face insurrection from the unAmerican Right; it will begin on day one after his victory and last four long years if he and we live through it.
Their fury will be unlike anything this country has ever seen.
Same if we lose. Because they are who they are.
On the other hand, maybe the reasonable Republicans will get a grip and we can go back to splitting the difference.
Enjoy.
But let's not get cocky and let us not underestimate the enemy.
The lies will come of the darkness like cockroaches, colossal, legion, and with acid for blood. They're going to get it all over everyone and it will corrode what is left of political civility.
Yes, if Kerry is elected, he may well face insurrection from the unAmerican Right; it will begin on day one after his victory and last four long years if he and we live through it.
Their fury will be unlike anything this country has ever seen.
Same if we lose. Because they are who they are.
On the other hand, maybe the reasonable Republicans will get a grip and we can go back to splitting the difference.
Happy birthday Tena!
Saw a 'Boycott France' sticker today. I pulled beside them, looked them both in the eye and shook my head. How stupid are these people?
SWR, so, uh, you're not arguing then. You're bringing up a completely separate example of EXACTLY what I'm talking about for no reason and just to get back at me for somehow (though I'm not sure exactly how...) crossing the Democrat picket line on Iraq and saying maybe we should stay until we get them back on their feet?
I agreed with what you said entirely, and your example proved my point. We don't need to keep making Hitlers in the middle East, we did in 1991 by staying in SA, we're doing so now...
I think you might be clueless as to what Jeffers and I were arguing about.
The disenfranchisement of Florida continues:
Thousands of Floridians who think they're registered to vote could be turned away at the polls Nov. 2 because their voter registration forms weren't completely filled out, officials said Friday.
Secretary of State Glenda Hood said some groups registering voters are turning in application forms with information missing, such as unchecked boxes asking whether applicants are citizens, mentally incompetent or felons.
A group that's been seeking copies of the incomplete applications in an effort to help people complete them said Hood's office, citing state law, has begun blocking them.
Does anyone else sense election day riots on the horizon?
Re the response to Kerry - he will need to reach out to the country in a bipartisan manner, get some Republicans into the administration, treat the opposition with respect, not disdain, communicate with the public, and try to isolate the wingnuts.
It will be tough, but I think he can have some real success - the country will not tolerate destroying him before he gets a chance to perform.
Anon @ 12:54 -
The stupidist I've seen are the ones that say "First Iraq, then France, then Hollywood". As-I-Nine.
geez, where did all the wingnuts go?? i kinda miss beating them up -- it was something of a contact sport and now I have to watch baseball tonite and edit my blog for giggles
if Kerry is elected, he may well face insurrection from the unAmerican Right
This is why more people need to see their vote as for Kerry and not just against Bush.
Libras do rule; just ask my sister...
rorschach
amen, bro ... libras do rule
syntallic
Pffft! GEMINIS rule.
No they don't.
Yes they do.
No they don't.
Yes yes they they do do.
I looked at the swiftvets site and man are those people desperate.
Kerry might have pulled something from his pocket! He might have had notes! He might have had a pencil! Oh no!
So that explains W's competely inarticulate performance! That explains his petulant sighs and grimaces! That explains his sulks and smirks!
Kerry had notes! Major scandal! Look out!
Buy my book.
666 comments.
I felt the need to post.
SWR, so, uh, you're not arguing then.
No. I'm calling you a dumbass.
666th!
SWR, so, uh, you're not arguing then.
No. I'm simply remarking that you used an idiotic line.
Get over yourself.
it said that this thread has 666 comments when i logged on. funny.
i hear galloping outside my window.
What I want to know is, did I see Philalethes write earlier that he blew a couple hundred bucks on CD's?
I dream of a splurge like that. Tell us what you bought.
Yeah, I had some credit, but I went a little overboard. Not even sure if I remember what I got...um...let's see...
*Delmore Brothers 1933-41 (4-CD set)
*New Orleans 1922-29 (Another 4-CD set, conveniently compiling a bunch of early jazz that I have on scattered LP comps)
*Brian Wilson Presents Smile
*Henry Purcell - Complete Ayres for the Theatre
*The Homosexuals - Astral Glamour
*Wire - CD/DVD of 1979 live show
*Minny Pops - Drastic Measures, Drastic Movement
...ad a couple other things I can't remember right now...
I'm banned from the swiftvet boards, or rather, the General is. What are they saying?
Oh, SWR, in that case it's a CERTAINTY you have no idea what Jeffers and I were talking about, and clearly didn't understand my comment.
Kerry had notes! Major scandal! Look out!
He likely had paper to write on. Both candidates did.
But the swifties make me wonder... What *if* a candidate intentionally fluanted an inconsequential rule? What should happen? His opponent surely could not call him out. hmmmmm.
Jenny from the Blog,
Nah, just a guy in a solid face mask with a bigass crown on his head.
FWIW, Scorpio myself.
I don't buy into any of that astrological crap (except the part about Scorpio's being highly sexual creatures.)
I know Kerry couldn't cover all the bases in the first debate, but I was hoping he'd make a strong statement about the tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi casualties and also condemn the abuses at Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, etc., linking them to more hatred of the U.S. and directly to more terrorist recruitment.
Does anyone think this will be on the table in the third debate, perhaps? Or are the voters supposedly only interested in American deaths, because, you know, we are the only important people on the planet... Just wondering.
*
"At this point, I figure the more voices that turn against Bush's war, the better."
Friedman was never a Bush supporter. He just wanted Bush to get rid of Saddam Hussein for him. He's been complaining about the "execution" of it ever since. I know, he bought the argument about democratizing the ME. Right.
The real tragedy is that almost anyone with an interest in recent international history could have (and did) predicted this outcome prior to the war.
the real tragedy is that any mook with a computer (me), could have predicted this outcome. which tells me they knew too. they just didn't give a shit. did i mention that osama could not have asked, pleaded, or paid for a more advantageous response to his opening move. dipwits.
SNL sux, except when it doesn't, been saying that since 197whenever.
favorite skit ever: fake jewish jeans commercial, although basso-matic is a very close second.
Thousands of Floridians who think they're registered to vote could be turned away at the polls Nov. 2 because their voter registration forms weren't completely filled out, officials said Friday.
umm .. i agree, rorschach, about the potential for riots and demonstrations, but I do think this is one of those items where it cuts both ways too. if the rethugs are doing all kinds of voting registration in the churches, just because they go to a service doesn't guarantee they're smart
with respect to florida, they should just split the EV's in half and forget the vote -- you'd have a better chance of getting a fair election in Libya at this point
Central S -
I don't buy into the astrological crap either, except the fact that Libras are the most beautiful and intelligent creatures on the planet... (smiley face here)
*
Barbara smoking pot!
Like most Virgos, I don't believe in astrology (and would you if you read what they say about us? "Fall asleep while making love." Yeck.)
What are they saying?
... that Kerry pulled something out of his breast pocket.
"It must have been illegal notes!"
These dumbasses fail to realize that both candidates were *taking* notes. Hence the removal of a pen and paper is hardly suspicious.
Oh, SWR, in that case it's a CERTAINTY you have no idea what Jeffers and I were talking about, and clearly didn't understand my comment.
Anon/Apophenia | Email | Homepage | 10.03.04 - 1:00 am | #
I'm saying I don't care.
I'm simply making an observation about your inability to express yourself (something you're confirming by saying I have no idea what you're talking about).
Get over it. I'm going to have whatever reaction to your clumsy phrasing I want to.
General,
They have their panties in a knot over the fact that Kerry MIGHT have taken some notes from his jacket. As if that explained their boy's complete flop-sweat soaked, smirkingly bad performance.
It's enough to make Jesus drink himself to sleep.
Dems need to win back the senate,too-
apropos of neighborhood observations,
some jerk posted a Chimpy/Vader sign on a public strip of grass between a homeowner with a Kerry-Edwards sign and the street -- the next night I drove down that street, I saw the Bush/Cheney sign had been ripped up, stomped on, torn and left lying in the same spot
another skirmish in the war on the homefront, i guess
Jenny ftb,
Glad we're on the same page...
(No pun intended.)
watching SLN and LMAO! This is best one in long time!
They have their panties in a knot over the fact that Kerry MIGHT have taken some notes from his jacket.
Wouldn't it have been easier to scribble them on the back of his wrist.
Bush screwed himself. Had Rove not insisted on that stupid rule about the candidates not being able to approach each other, Bush could have run over to Kerry, grabbed him and said "cheater cheater cheater".
rorschach, election violence is something I always associate with 3rd world countries. If that does happen we'll know for sure how far downhill we've gone.
the emerging problem for the preznut is not whether kerry is building something with the swing voters, but whether the Chimp can get his base to get out and vote with the same vigor they had about a month ago
one more debate failure and he's going to lose a great deal of steam because like the old saying in politics goes; "if you're defending, you aren't winning."
If that does happen we'll know for sure how far downhill we've gone.
Didn't it already happen (Brooks Brothers Riot)?
OK, I went and looked at the other three:
*Bert Williams Volume One
*A CD of Cambodian pop music from the sixties
*Ethiopiques, Vol. 18
What *if* a candidate intentionally fluanted an inconsequential rule?
I think Kerry should break a major one on the next debate and call bush out for his claims that Kerry would submit future military actions to a global test. Something like, "You know what I said. The American people know what I said. Yet you treat them as if they are so stupid that they would buy your mischaracterization of my words. Well, Mr. Bush, they aren't stupid, and it's time you started to realize that.
Imagine how that would throw the little coward off his game if it was the first thing Kerry came out with.
Oh, did I add:
buy my book?
....Bush could have run over to Kerry, grabbed him and said "cheater cheater cheater".
....And then, Big John could have spit on the top of the chimps head.....
The Friedman piece is amazing. Cutting and clear. The Chimpenfolk have chosen politics over policy not just in just the war, but in every other arena as well.
I'm saying I don't care. -SWR
Ooh, the classic "I don't care" gambit. Except you brought it up, and you continued the "conversation." And you continue the thing by insulting me. But you don't care, of course. Might want to save your ass sooner next time, or pick a different cut and run strategy. Here are a few:
(1) "SHUT UP!" (a la O'Reilly)
(2) "My cat died today, I can't go on arguing..."
(3) "GUYS, MY COMPUTER IS ON FIRE!!!"
(4) "I'm sleepy, night night all!"
(5) "Um, Iraq doesn't exist"
(6) Simply quit responding
Any of those would have been less transparent, SWR. Oh well, next time right? Now I'm gonna exercise strategy #4 and hope you're smart enough to try #6, or the more fun #3 or #5...
Geore: But Karl, I understand about getting the bass out to vote.
Karl: Yes, sir?
George: But what about the tenors and sopranos? Don't they count?
Karl: Not in Florida, sir.
Did I mention?
Buy my book.
It's late and I've disgusted even myself. Good night, Atrosians.
Oh, and...
Buy my book.
SWR and Anonymous - Get a room.
cosmic grappler - Alright, goddamit, I'l look for your book tomorrow. It better be good.
Wow.
I wish you all could see the local minister screaming on my tv right now....
"Secular humanist this, Government that provides that, Christians that take care of themselves, Liberalism is a cancer, liberals don't teach true history in our schools, the devils and the demons of humanism...."
This is in the first few minutes of the "program".
the real tragedy is that any mook with a computer (me), could have predicted this outcome. which tells me they knew too. they just didn't give a shit.
Bingo.
i swear to god that saturday night live is bankrolled by the central intelligence agency. mocking the inspections process... a hoot! saddam and osama talking via giant cell phones... you had me at hello! george bush, harmless buffoon... goddamn kilogram! message to tina fey: declare yourself so that we can go. your brain may belong to langley, but those knockers?
I stopped watching SNL after the debate.
I remember reading a funny article (The New Yorker? The Atlantic?) about fundamentalists picketing a convention of humanists - who were professors of the humanities: literature, history and so forth, including a few Jesuits.
snl pretty much sucked, just like it has for years and years. the funniest part was the swiftvet guy whose credential was "saw platoon". i liked the drummer's t shirt too. vote or die.
"Healthy fear of the Lord. That's why the Roman culture collapsed, because they didn't fear the lord."
It'd be funny if it weren't real.
I'm outa here.
Ooh, the classic "I don't care" gambit. Except you brought it up, and you continued the "conversation."
You wasted all that time defending your ego when you could have been using it to explain the position on Iraq you claim I didn't understand.
The "Mein Jihad" line was assassine. Admit it and move on. You were so impressed with your image of yourself as a clever man that you forgot to actually express what you were trying to say.
I don't buy into the astrological crap either, except the fact that Libras are the most beautiful and intelligent creatures on the planet... (smiley face here)
*
Jenny from the Blog
I'm against it too, though Sagitarians like myself do have a certain something.
Actually. I've gotten into some pretty heated debates with astrology buffs...not 'cause it's a "pseudoscience" or a "superstition" (I'm pretty tolerant of both), but because it seems really similar to generalizing based on someone's race. My feeling is that even if astrology were at all accurate (which I don't believe for a second), I'd still be honor-bound to deal with individuals as they REALLY are, not on the basis of a prejudice.
Oh, and more importantly...Happy birthday, Tena!!!
"Secular humanist this, Government that provides that, Christians that take care of themselves, Liberalism is a cancer, liberals don't teach true history in our schools, the devils and the demons of humanism...."
dunno if you saw George Carlin on Real Time last night, but, man, did he recycle his best religion takes for the show -- the more we dig into Dubya, the more we dig into the christian tinfoil hat types
but they do need to be taxed like a business and their real estate holdings must be treated like any other real estate holdings company
witness the giant land grab that the latter day saints did the other day in nebraska - there is a real strange Brownback-Ralph Reed-Falwell trifecta going on out there and you're paying for it by sharing a larger part of the tax pie
I don't buy into the astrological crap
either, except the fact that Libras are the
most beautiful and intelligent creatures on
the planet...
Why that's absolutely true!!
(proof? my birthday was yesterday.)
Oh, and happy birthday Tena, ya' little pup you, (29 right?)- must have been a great present to have your letter published. Oh, and contrary to what others have said: leos rule. /leonine vanity
cosmic grappler,
st. martins press, i'm impressed, congratualations, not enuf to buy your book (i'm very poor) but you're already gone, and so should i be.
good nite. write to your editors.
Carlin and Maher assume that Bush is truly motivated by religion. I don't buy that. He is merely exploiting fundamentalist christians.
Phila -
Oh, and the best and most ridiculous generalization is the new one. Blood type. Have you heard anybody spouting that one yet? It's the buzz in L.A. Sometimes you gotta put up with a lot of bull just to get the great weather we have here...
OH, and I'll say another happy B-day to Tena now. (It's only 10:19 here at the beach, so it's still Tena's day from where I sit...
*
George: But Karl, I understand about getting the bass out to vote
When I read that line, my first thought was 'smallmouth or largemouth?'.
Philalethes, some of your stuff is a little too esoteric for me. But when I win the 1K bet I have with my husband, that Kerry wins the election, there will be a major CD blowout.
Central Scrutinizer
I have heard the code phrase Secular Humanist a bit too close to home lately. But it tells me what is going on in some segments of faith. The funny part is the person who politely flings it at me doesn't realize it does not apply to me. Well except under one single condition, that everyone not like this person and the people in his church is typical of the definition. I am beginning to think people who "apply" that word/phrase have no real understanding of it.
'
Cheney was also STAUNCHLY pro-Apartheid.'
total BS.
Opposing sanctions does not equal "staunchly pro apartheid." This is a laughable accusation.
fourlegs -
Happy birthday, you gorgeous, splendid LIBRA!
*
cosmic grappler,
st. martins press, i'm impressed, congratualations, not enuf to buy your book (i'm very poor) but you're already gone, and so should i be.
good nite. every one, use some of this blog typing energy to write letters to the editors of your hometown newspaper. goddammit, i wan't a reasonable semblance of what i thought america was, back.
"both candidates were taking notes. . ."
nah. kerry was. the punk was just copying him, just like he did when he said that nuclear proliferation was the biggest threat. if he had been asked first he would have said "terrrrrr".
fried man is back, huh? i will probably wind up reading some of his worthless scribbling i guess.
I don't buy that. He is merely exploiting fundamentalist christians.
I wish he were. That would make him a lot less frightening. But that's more Reagan than W. I think W really believes it.
Think about it. The whole meme about Kerry as a "flip flopper" has a real fundamentalist quality to it. It has the fear of not being certain that every Fundamentalist has.
And I think Bush really buys it.
Opposing sanctions does not equal "staunchly pro apartheid." This is a laughable accusation.
Does that mean you can oppose the war with Saddam and not be "objectively for Saddam"?
Cool. I'm not a traitor anymore.
SWR, I like your logic.
I found it amusing today to hear the spin that Bush, speaking since the debate, has come out SO FORCEFULLY with responses to Kerry's debate points. The press is actually giving him some kind of pass because he wasn't quick on his feet on Thursday night.
Gee, could it be that somebody handed him responses after the fact because he doesn't have one brain cell in his head?
*
nice comeback, SWR
Presidentin is hard work. I know how the world works- Repeated forcefully.
Opposing sanctions does not equal "staunchly pro apartheid." This is a laughable accusation.
kwak
Sure. Opposing sanctions in ten separate votes...that's just being somewhat pro-Apartheid.
And opposing the resolution to free Mandela after 23 years in prison wasn't "staunchly pro-Apartheid" either, I suppose. That was just staunchly anti-Mandela, which is a whole different thing, right?
You're a moron.
SWR you are correct and I'm sorry if you ever fell for that sorry ass logic. Philalethes should learn from your example. Opposing sanctions on pretoria no more endorses apartheid than opposing sanctions on hussein endorses baathism.
I challenge you or anyone else to find a single cheney citation praising apartheid. Or retract your lie like an honest person.
kwak, your name is apropo.
kwak, are you related to Scalia?
Lay off kwak. He's good people.
"Simply put, Bush couldn't give a rat's ass how many unemployed people there are. His self-image is completely tied up in his sense of himself as a War President and as John Wayne. That's why he was so pissed that Kerry went after him.
When Kerry goes after him on the economy, Bush is simply going to mouth some lines about taxes and about being pro-business and not really lose it.
SWR"
Yes, we should not be too confident...but polls always show that ppl trust the economy to Dems and foreign policy to the Rethugs? (maybe not now, after smirkies non-answers)
All Kerry needs to do is keep it simple.
...or just for extra protection, everyone who is frightened of four more years of the fummbling war profiteers could pull all their saving...well what ever is left of it ...out of the bank and tuck into their mattresses until Nov.3
Why should we reward the ones, we the ppl employ, when they do a shit job with more tax revenue?
that's my attitude about flying, why should I reward failure by paying them with my vacation dollars? they completely blew it on 911.
Does that mean you can oppose the war with Saddam and not be "objectively for Saddam"?
Cool. I'm not a traitor anymore.
SWR
You're forgetting the all-important corollary to IOKIYAR: INOKIYAL.
As Paul Wolfowitz so helpfully pointed out, hatred of America is our guiiding star, which means that we're just as traitorous for opposing Saddam in the eighties as we are for opposing Gulf War II today.
Opposing sanctions on pretoria no more endorses apartheid than opposing sanctions on hussein endorses baathism.
Opposing apples does not make you objectively pro-oranges.
And opposing sanctions on Pretoria makes you look like a racist motherfucker on the wrong side of history.
SWR you are correct and I'm sorry if you ever fell for that sorry ass logic.
Well, I never fell for it, but a certain law professor did.
I think that this "pressure of public opinion" language is a recognition by Saddam that the "anti-war" movement is objectively on his side, and not neutral. Of course, the old CIA would have just dusted Hans Blix's room with a few anthrax spores. But we don't do things like that now.
UPDATE: Via email, I learn that Jim Henley and Hesiod are unhappy with the remark about the antiwar movement being Saddam's ally. But the quote in the story seems to me to indicate that Saddam sees it that way. And I think he's right.
Belated Happy Birthdays to Tena and fourlegsgood.
And go Big John!
'the spear of the people' actually blew up pubs once upon a time. Umkhonto we Siswe WAS a terrorist group. Saying so is not an endorsement of apartheid or anything close. So fuck yourself, Philalethes (again) you are a liar (again and again) and I won't hold my breath waiting for that retraction because I see you are pathologically incapable of distinguishing cheap slanders from reasonable criticism.
Cambodian pop music from the sixties! What's the CD-"The Essential Pol Pot?"
And opposing sanctions on Pretoria makes you look like a racist motherfucker on the wrong side of history.- NYMary
I disagree, opposing Mandela's release REALLY makes you look like a racist mofo.
And if you want to keep big Mo' stick to the issues http://tinyurl.com/4xedt
It's from the Guardian and it's about Guantanamo and it's part of the big picture and should not be forgotten -
'the spear of the people' actually blew up pubs once upon a time.
So did a few ex Israeli Prime Ministers.
So did the French resistence.
So did the partisans in Yugoslavia.
And opposing the resolution to free Mandela after 23 years in prison wasn't "staunchly pro-Apartheid" either, I suppose. That was just staunchly anti-Mandela, which is a whole different thing, right?
You're a moron.
Philalethes
nice take, Philalethes ... all you really had to use to enforce this point was that Cheney voted against the holiday for MLK while in the congress -- the VP is the worst kind of racist - the one that hides in a closet like his daughter, albeit a different style closet
Hey kwak,
Check this.
Let's see you spin like a top.
Sigh... why does haloscan insist on not remembering my name? I am Thersites! And I like to use the word motherfucker, goddamn it!
I have my doubts by the way that Atrios's cheap-assed blog (for which I have the greatest affection) will be able to make ot through election day, technologically speaking. It already takes forever to load, behaves erratically, and the comments system is, well, idiosyncratic...
'the spear of the people' actually blew up pubs once upon a time.
Although I will agree with you that places where alcohol is consumed should be off limits to military action.
Even a racist, nazi fuckhead should be able to have a beer without somebody sticking a bomb under his ass.
you are number 6 thersites
KEEP IT GOING
Screw their spin. I first went out and voted on all the online polls. I wrote customized letters about the debate to CNN, NBC, CBS (and included the fake fox story) and NPR.
Yes, Rove and buddies can try and spin and bash Kerry, but there is no way they can resist a surge like we gave the media after the debate.
And now that Newsweek is showing a change in Kerry’s favor, I sent out a round of emails to inform friend and family.
Follow up with all the debates, until Kerry is in the Whitehouse.
Jenny, thanks
SWR, you're correct on bush and religion. I really do think he's bought into the apocolyptic portions of the born-again bs. I think it appeals to his mindset.
And I disagree with whoever said upthread that it wouldn't be possible to upset chimpy over domestic policy.
Attacking him over ANYTHING will get his goat. He just can't stand to be challenged, so that's what Kerry needs to do, is tell him he's wrong, repeatedly. Say he's incompetent. Chimpy will unravel again. He won't be able to help it. And he doesn't have command of the issues because he doesn't care about the minutae, he never did. Plus he'll be nervous.
Not that kerry should get cocky- but I don't expect that. He's far too smart and saavy for that.
kwak, what's the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter? Like what's the difference between Umkhonto we Siswe and the Sandinistas?
kwak :
Your the one that is totally warped and laughable. Why don't you go to your chimp site and talk your BS cause nobody on this blog wants to hear it.
A QUOTE FROM GEORGE "DID I TELL YOU MY JOB WAS HARD WORK?" BUSH :
"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work. You know my hardest, the hardest part of the job is to know that I committed the troops in harm's way and then do the best I can to provide comfort for the loved ones who lost a son or a daughter or husband and wife."
No wonder even Tucker Carlson said listening to Bush speak is like watching a drunk man cross a street.
no imagination, blowing up pubs is terrorism. that one mans terrorist shit may still lose you the election. keep pushing it by all means.
Like what's the difference between Umkhonto we Siswe and the Sandinistas?
no imagination
i, too, have no imagination ... but I'm sure glad that the preznut was in the Texas Air National Guard defending Houston from the Viet Cong
I won't hold my breath waiting for that retraction because I see you are pathologically incapable of distinguishing cheap slanders from reasonable criticism.
Let's filter this through the Universal Troll Translator (only $5.99 at Target--we had a coupon):
It works out to... let's see...
"Mommy, please make them stop hurting me. They are so big and strong and I am so weak and puny."
kwak, what's the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter? Like what's the difference between Umkhonto we Siswe and the Sandinistas?
no imagination | Email | Homepage | 10.03.04 - 1:47 am | #
I'm still trying to figure out why (in say 1981) South Africa was part of the "free world" but most of Eastern Europe wasn't.
Wasn't the typical Pole, for example, who was admittedly living under a corrupt, Stalinist government but was still free to join Solidarity (until it was banned) just as free as a black guy in Soweto?
I don't accept that there needs to be a meme regards the global standards comment made by Kerry - It was clear to me he was saying if the US says there is a need for pre-emptive war because of WMD's and a looming threat, then these conditions will actually exist! - the Standard is Honesty
and it's hardly ever heard
everyone is so untrue
"kerry won't get cocky. . ."
you're probably right, 4legs, but he might get a little cocky. there was one point in the debate that i remember, pretty early on. chimpy wanted to make some kind of follow up statement, and he asked kerry if that was ok with him, and kerry said something like "sure. we could have a real debate if you want."
you are number 6 thersites
I am not a number! I am a free man!
I KNOW OSAMA ATTACKED US. I PLANNED IT. DAMN.
Jay Nordlinger, an editor over at National Review Online, delivers the bad news to the faithful. Andrew "Even A Right-Wing Prick Such As Myself Finally Reallizes Bush Is A Disaster" Sullivan posted this.
October 01, 2004, 1:14 a.m.
Don’t Shoot the Messenger . . .
. . . ’cause this assessment’s grim.
Jay Nordlinger, NRO
"I thought Kerry did very, very well; and I thought Bush did poorly — much worse than he is capable of doing. Listen: If I were just a normal guy — not Joe Political Junkie — I would vote for Kerry. On the basis of that debate, I would. If I were just a normal, fairly conservative, war-supporting guy: I would vote for Kerry. On the basis of that debate.
And I promise you that no one wants this president reelected more than I. I think that he may want it less.
Let me phrase one more time what I wish to say: If I didn't know anything — were a political naïf, being introduced to the two candidates for the first time — I would vote for Kerry. Based on that infernal debate."
you are number 6 thersites
And neither is my wife! Aaahg!
And since when did Haloscan start employing giant white condom-assed beachballs to annoy innocent posters?
I'm still trying to figure out why (in say 1981) South Africa was part of the "free world" but most of Eastern Europe wasn't.
Wasn't the typical Pole, for example, who was admittedly living under a corrupt, Stalinist government but was still free to join Solidarity (until it was banned) just as free as a black guy in Soweto?- SWR
Killer comment.
kwak, total BS, like our revolution was good, pure, and clean yet everyone elses is dirty doesn't fly with me
Happy birthday, all you clueless love-crazed Libras.
Let's let the president have at least a tiny modicum of compassion from our liberal hearts. The debates started after his bedtime, so of course he was cranky, and the campaign made him miss his August vacation.
The workaholics among us (personally, I'm reformed) may dismiss his complaints about "hard work", but there's no reason to think he wasn't being sincere. In fact, that's one of the most credible themes he's ever articulated.
Happy birthday, Tena!
Happy birthday, fourlegsgood!
Enjoy!
I don't believe in astrology. I'm a lepricorn by birth and they never say how my day is going to be.
that was a good point about poland, swr. i'm ashamed to admit it, but i had forgotten about poland.
SWR, are you suggesting that America wasn't free at its founding, simply because most blacks were slaves and women couldn't vote?
(Not looking for an argument; rather the contrary. Not accounting for Indians, either.)
that was a good point about poland, swr. i'm ashamed to admit it, but i had forgotten about poland.
Olaf glad and big | Email | Homepage | 10.03.04 - 1:59 am | #
I was talking to a Polish immigrant (in his early 20s) a few days ago.
So I said "the government in Poland is supporting Bush on Iraq, is that popular in Poland?"
After spewing out curses about Bush being an idiot for about 10 minutes, he told me that no, it's not. Bush is hated in Poland.
Kwak, Cheney didn't just vote against "sanctions." He voted against stopping military aid, he voted against humanitarian aid for the black majority, and he voted repeatedly to keep Mandela in prison. Today, he calls Mandela "a great man." But Mandela is somewhat less complimentary towards Cheney.
However, if you want me to rephrase my comment, I will. Cheney was not "staunchly pro-Apartheid"; he was consistently a cowardly appeaser of the racist, anti-democratic, terroristic government of South Africa, partially because there was money to be made by selling them arms, and partially because his instincts have always been firmly anti-democratic.
His votes against the Equal Rights Amendment, and against many other civil-rights programs, and against allowing a floor vote on a bill that sought to ensure application of four major civil rights laws, and against overriding Reagan's veto of the Civil Rights Restoration Act of 1987, and against collecting data on hate crimes may well be nothing more than coincidence. We can't see into his heart, so we don't know for sure whether he actively dislikes black people, or is simply an amoral sociopath who routinely turns a blind eye to human misery.
Oh, I made sure to remark that he was in his early 20s because he had gone to high-school in the USA and he told me that he had three friends from high-school serving in Iraq.
And they hated Bush.
bad jim. the american war for independence freed america from british rule. it didn't really create any other freedom.
I'm a lepricorn by birth and they never say how my day is going to be.
I was born a liberal, myself.
Means that hopefully I can make someone else's life a bit better, one day at a time.
(As long as I can be foulmouthed about it, of course.)
anyone hear the suggestion that bush had an earpiece in? Would explain the pauses in the beginning and especially explain the
"let me finish" in the middle of his 90 second answer.
how's that for violating the rules. If that was true, and got out in the big blogs....dude.....that would make him seem even more of a monkey!
If anybody has the debate videotaped and can zoom in and anlyize it, that might show some new evidence of
"earplug-gate".
Ed
bad jim. the american war for independence freed america from british rule. it didn't really create any other freedom.
Yes it did. It's complex because the British had their own civil war and cut off the head of one of their Kings, but certainly the freedom just to set up your own government in spite of the King was something that didn't exist before the American revolution.
I doubt the French Revolution would have even happened had it not been for Sam Adams and George Washington.
Even a racist, nazi fuckhead should be able to have a beer without somebody sticking a bomb under his ass.
Well how else are the terrorists going to make their point. Probably no kids in the bar.
SWR, and the Polish PM now says they were led into Iraq on false premises.
swr, it did too. like you said, it happened in england. cromwell did it.
Kerry's pencil wasn't a pencil. It was an evil secret weapon that fired a stupidity beam at our glorious leader!
I would love to see Kerry come out with a direct quote from the President (?) of Poland, dated, stamped and notarized, saying that Bush dragged his country into this war on a false premise... during the next debate. Even though it's a domestic policy theme. He can fit it in somewhere. Like, "Speaking of lies, Mr. Bush..."
I would like to hear that...
It's not nice to fool Poland.
*
Saw a 'Boycott France' sticker today. I pulled beside them, looked them both in the eye and shook my head. How stupid are these people?
Anonymous
well, i had the pleasure of being stuck in a traffic jam for a half hour behind this huge old caddy with a "b/c in 04! GET USED TO IT!" sticker. they don't even try to hide their thuggishness.
"You forgot Poland" will probably never rise to the level of "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition."
'the spear of the people' actually blew up pubs once upon a time.
I hear this Allawi guy blew up a theatre and some school buses.
BTW, I love the troll gambit where you post some idiotic demand, wait x amount of minutes, and then decide you've routed your opponent simply because he happened to get up and walk away from the computer for a while.
I know it's hard for a Cheny-lovin' troll to conceive of this, but most of us have lives away from the computer. I, for instance, decided to have some tea and cake with my family...little realizing that I'd lost the debate by not answering before you were done masturbating.
CS you sure showed me with that conason link. so joe conason agrees with you that one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist. more feeble tu quoque. yet another nitwit who needs to re-read the fourth geneva convention.
swr, it did too. like you said, it happened in england. cromwell did it.
Aaah, you're just scrappin'. Get this man a troll to unload on.
The American Revolution gave us and the world the First Amendment, which was a pretty fucking good idea.
Cromwell was a genocidal theocratic git, though....
I, for instance, decided to have some tea and cake with my family...little realizing that I'd lost the debate by not answering before you were done masturbating.- Philalethes
You owe me a screen.
swr, it did too. like you said, it happened in england. cromwell did it.
Nothing takes place in a vacuum but the Roundheads in the English Civil War were certainly less democratic (with a small "d") than Jefferson or Madison.
The American Revolution didn't create the principles behind the First Amendment (Google John Wilkes) but it certainly was the first codified guarantee of the Freedom of speach.
And it was nice while it lasted.
If Bush had an earpiece, it would explain his rapid eyeblinking during the final statement, but, given his general performance, it would suggest that his handlers were just as clueless as he was.
I'd doubt it. I think he memorized his final statement and it was as much as he could do to remember it. "Let me finish" could have been an admonition to the other voices in his head.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2107682/fr/rss/
What goes up can come right back down.
1. When Bush lies about what Kerry said, why not call it a lie?
2. What do the swing voters in focus groups think was Bush's biggest mistake? Someone on our side should find out so we can start hammering that point.
kwak,
You're not very good at this, are you?
Hey folks, what are the odds Kwak is actually that fat-assed, orgy-lovin', self-flagellating son-of-a-bitch Antonin Scalia?
Pretty good, I'd say!
I, for instance, decided to have some tea and cake with my family
I dunno... tea and cake? Sounds French to me. Sure you weren't looking up any of them there sissy-assed "facts"?
"You forgot Poland" will probably never rise to the level of "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition."
bad Jim | Email | Homepage | 10.03.04 - 2:10 am | #
How many Bushes does it take to screw in a lightbulb.
Don't know. It's hard work. But I know the world and I will screw in that light bulb and if we fail to screw in that light bulb, the evildoers have won.
I hear this Allawi guy blew up a theatre and some school buses.
Iyad Allawi is a terrorist.
So far, Bush is looking a lot like Saddam.
Killed Iraqis: check.
Possessed chemical and/or biological weapons at some point in the past 25 years: check.
Collaborated with terrorist Iyad Allawi: check.
Ignored several opportunities to kill Abu Musab al-Zarqawi: check.
So, um. If George W. Bush is just going to do the exact same shit Saddam Hussein did, what was the point of removing Saddam Hussein?
more feeble tu quoque
AAAaGGGhhhh!!!
It speaks French!
We're doomed, I tell you, doomed!
The American Revolution didn't create the principles behind the First Amendment (Google John Wilkes) but it certainly was the first codified guarantee of the Freedom of speach.
That was my point. Principles without the force of law are nice, but not always so great in practice. Anyhoo...
"You forgot Poland"
BTW, speaking of English speaking Polish expatriot novelists, you might want to read "The Secret Agent" by Joseph Conrad.
It's about a minor official in the British government trying to stage a terrorist attack in order to crack down on radicals.
shorter kwak- all violence is terrorism unless it is done by us or our surrogates. A similar logic applies to the innocent victims killed by us or our surrogates, whom we shall refer to as collateral damage, otherwise they shall be referred to as innocent civilians.
At its inception, the U.S. was a free country for the enfranchised few, which was arguably also the case in Britain or more recently in South Africa. In the formerly Communist states and elsewhere, the enfranchised few are an even smaller group.
"Freedom" is clearly a relative term. Didn't Franklin Roosevelt try to nail it down a little better?
20,000 or so Iraqis and over 1,000 American troops are now free of Saddam Hussein and everything else. Freedom's just another word ... no.
Kerry at least mentioned the 14 permanent bases and asserted that the US should have no permanent presence in Iraq. That's at least a promise of one of the flavors of freedom.
one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist.
Yes. How true that is. And I must say, I really admire Cheney's principled opposition to terrorist tactics in ALL situations, regardless of the political realities involved.
The mullahs are going to rule now. We are going to have ten thousand years of the Islamic republic. The Marxists are going to go on with their Lenin. We are going to go on in the way of Khomeini
The mullahs are going to rule now.
Not the Moolahs!!!
shorter no imagination,
any idiot or set of idiots with access to plastic explosives and a beef with the government is a freedom fighter. civilians are legitimate targets in all circumstances. The geneva conventions apply to elected governments but unelected ones are exempt.
any idiot or set of idiots with access to plastic explosives and a beef with the government is a freedom fighter.
Freedom Fighter Inflation dictates that to be a "Freedom Fighter" you need sophisticated military hardware (like F-16s).
If you use primitive weapons (like belts of plastic explosives) you are a "terrorist".
Dude, didn't you get the memo?
shorter no imagination,
tim mcveigh was a patriot
SWR, I revere Conrad. I think he showed Hemingway how to write. Unfortunately, I read "The Secret Agent" so long ago that I've mostly forgotten it, more recently bought "Under Western Eyes" and lost interest. I find that the older I get the more books I haven't read.
Then there's Graham Greene. In "The Confidential Agent", as I recall, the hapless protagonist didn't get his shipment to Republican Spain, but did at least deny it to Franco.
I dunno... tea and cake? Sounds French to me. Sure you weren't looking up any of them there sissy-assed "facts"?
Thersites
Fortunately, the facts are so easy to get that I had time to do both! (And I could've had you rate the super-hunks, too!)
The tea is Darjeeling, which is fairly butch, as tea goes. The cake's a vegan (!) chocolate sherry cake, which has gotta be a few notches below "French." It's really good, though...even the most resolute omnivores I know wolf it down and beg for seconds!
shorter SWR (amend "any idiot.." above to "any outgunned idiot...")
kwak, do you think that the geneva conventions do not also apply to an idiot with his hands on the most powerful army in the world? Who apparently is free to attack a soveriegn nation unprovoked, killing tens of thousands of innocent persons? Can you say Abu Ghraib?
I think he showed Hemingway how to write.
Nah. That was Gertrude Stein and Sherwood Anderson.
Conrad did influence Graham Greene though. I love "The Power and the Glory" (especially when drunk).
'It speaks French'
ha ha , good one.
The geneva conventions apply to elected governments but unelected ones are exempt.
Sheeit, Chester, the Geneva Conventions? They apply to whoever the damn hell the Bushistas SAY they apply to, candyass! What's with that terra-ist loving shit about the "Geneva Conventions" you're spoutin'!
Southern Californians don't screw in lightbulbs, they screw in hot tubs.
(Note the arrogant humanism. Mice everywhere screw in lightbulbs, when they're open.)
Man, Kwak is tiptoeing through this thread like it's a minefield. He's like Bush...chooses his battles carefully, stays optimistic and resolutely, and still can't win or break even.
If this were a video game, Kwak would be squeezing the trigger and jerking the joystick around for twenty minutes after the screen said "Game Over."
shorter SWR (amend "any idiot.." above to "any outgunned idiot...")
Dude. I told you you can't be a freedom fighter unless you have an F-16.
I'm on your side man.
Oh, and you're also forgetting that "unlawful combatents" are also exempt from the Geneva Convention.
Would we want to get Rumsfeld into trouble?
No.
What that happen if the Geneva Convention were applied to Gitmo.
Yes.
Ergo, the Geneva Convention is not applied to "unlawful combatents".
If this were a video game, Kwak would be squeezing the trigger and jerking the joystick around for twenty minutes after the screen said "Game Over."
That ain't a joystick he's jerking.
So the gist of Kwak's argument is: Cheney wasn't pro-Apartheid, he was anti-terrorism. And as such, he was absolutely right to vote the way he did.
If that's what you believe, Kwak, then vote for Bush/Cheney. Simple, no? Most of us find Cheney's actions and justifications contemptible, hypocritical, anti-democratic, and disgusting...but you have a right to your opinions nonetheless.
My advice, though, is that you don't make this a central plank of your pro-Cheney rants in future. You'll scare off a lot of moderates, and you don't need anymore embarassing wingnuts on your side. The fuss over Cheney's repellent voting record died down pretty quickly in 2000, and you do NOT want to stir it up again right before the old ghoul goes up against Edwards.
NYMary, your concern for international law sounds somewhat less serious you defend blowing up pubs as 'freedom fighting.' this is exactly why some dems are not taken seriously on issues relating to the "war on nihilistic stateless asymmetrical attacks on civilians by unelected persons responsible to no civil authority." it's all freedom fighting. osama bin laden :freedom fighter. HAMAS: freedom fighters. Who in this moral universe is NOT a freedom fighter?
That ain't a joystick he's jerking.
Thersites
You're not trying to tell me it's a penis, are you? Because I find that VERY hard to believe.
A sneak attack on Christian troops in a foreign country the day after Christmas is hardly fighting fair.
Who in this moral universe is NOT a freedom fighter?
Ummm...someone who's NOT fighting for freedom, but for theocratic tyranny, like Osama bin Laden?
Someone who's NOT fighting for freedom, but for regional hegemony and financial rewards, like George W. Bush?
What do you call it when our soldiers are being fired upon from insurgents held up in a mosque but are not permitted by their Commanders orders to return fire?
it's all freedom fighting. osama bin laden :freedom fighter. HAMAS: freedom fighters.
How precisely do you defend the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan as "freedom fighters"?
And how exactly do you defend the Israeli government when some of the people who founded it blew up the King David Hotel and assassinated Count Bernadotte?
You're not even consistent to your own principles.
To you, "terrorist" means "commits violents acts to overthrow a government that I like" and "freedom fighter" mean "used violence against a government I don't like.
NYMary, your concern for international law sounds somewhat less serious you defend blowing up pubs as 'freedom fighting.'
Maybe it's nice living in your absolute moral universe, but--funny thing--when the people with your puerile worldview are in charge, there are always more corpses.
Neglecting the attack on Fort Sumter and the incursions into Maryland and Pennsylvania, the Civil War was indeed the War of Northern Agression.
You're not trying to tell me it's a penis, are you? Because I find that VERY hard to believe.
Point taken...
'So the gist of Kwak's argument is:'
the gist was that Dick Cheney, despite being the antichrist, was no more "staunchly pro-apartheid" than the many congressmen who voted with him on those resolutions, or the democratic president whose CIA helped apprehend Mandela back in the early 60's. who was that racist bastard again?
I hate to distract Kwak from trying to win with generalities a case he's already lost on specifics...but Kwak--old buddy, old pal--you started by saying Cheney was not anti-apartheid. Then, you segued into a hissy fit about how the ANC was a terrorist group. Both questions are tangential to the important issues: Was the racist government of South Africa morally right, or morally wrong? If it was right, why? If it wasn't, by what means should it have been dealt with by the world community? Bonus points for finding a single contemporaneous suggestion from Dick Cheney on the best and most expedient way to end white minority rule iin South Africa. I mean, he obviously felt strongly how NOT to do it--having voted against every idea that every came before the House--so what was HIS bright idea of how to do it?
Hmmm?
You're not trying to tell me it's a penis, are you? Because I find that VERY hard to believe.
Point taken...
Thersites | Email | Homepage | 10.03.04 - 2:53 am | #
Unless Kwak is Ann Coulter.
you defend blowing up pubs as 'freedom fighting. kwak
No one said that blowing up pubs was freedom fighting, nor that we condone violence. We're just pointing out what an idiot you are for supporting covert racism- freedom fightings ok if its the US revolution, or our "liberation" of others, otherwise its terrorism. Just repeat Abu Ghraib- while you're at it look up article 39 of the UN Charter and Article 6, Clause 2 of the US Constitution.
or the democratic president whose CIA helped apprehend Mandela back in the early 60's. who was that racist bastard again?
Um, the one who's not running for office in 2004?
'And how exactly do you defend the Israeli government'
'pro-Cheney rants'
hearing voices in your head?
What's the schedule? Edwards and Cheney on Tuesday, B&K Friday in Town Meeting context?
What would count for an Edwards KO? Cheney having his last heart attack?
Bad Jim's game is fun...
There is nothing more outrageous to international order than slapping a naval blockade on a nascent nation just trying to exercise its shipping rights.
Philatheles, you're on a roll.
hearing voices in your head?
kwak | Email | Homepage | 10.03.04 - 2:56 am | #
So I take it from your response that you do consider Menachem Begin to have been a "terrorist" then?
Very intersting.
What would count for an Edwards KO? Cheney having his last heart attack?
I certainly wouldn't want Cheney to have a heart attack.
But seeing him stand up and start screaing "Go Fuck yourself. YEAH YOU PRETTY BOY. GO FUCK YOURSELF" at Edwards would sort of make my decade.
Go Fuck yourself. YEAH YOU PRETTY BOY. GO FUCK YOURSELF" at Edwards would sort of make my decade.- SWR
Mine too.
'So I take it from your response that you do consider Menachem Begin to have been a "terrorist" then?'
of course he was! boy that was hard. i am sure to receive a beating from my handlers today.
the gist was that Dick Cheney, despite being the antichrist, was no more "staunchly pro-apartheid" than the many congressmen who voted with him on those resolutions, or the democratic president whose CIA helped apprehend Mandela back in the early 60's. who was that racist bastard again?
kwak
See, this is the problem you guys have. Blinkered by partisanship yourselves, you think that you can shut me up by invoking Democrats who behaved badly. Hear ye, hear ye: Every person who voted against those resolutions--Republican or Democrat--was a cowardly piece of shit who thought more of political expedience, or money, or his own racism than doing the right thing. Our policy towards Pretoria was ALWAYS wrong, although Carter at least took steps towards punishing SA (which Reagan promptly overturned).
One point is that whatever this country's history of racism and viciousness and moral cowardice is at any given moment, a politician always has the option to go in the other direction. This is an opportunity Cheney turned down repeatedly; personally, when I look at his foreign and domestic voting record, I see a flat-out racist. But if you want to say instead that he was merely indifferent to the enormous evil that was Apartheid, fine. I don't think any more of him for that, just as I wouldn't think highly of someone who found slavery distasteful, but didn't oppose it publicly because he made such good money selling manacles. The other point is that Cheney, unlike the other people you named, is our current VP and is up for re-election.
The fact remains, over and above all this: You're a moron.
Oops, typo:
you started by saying Cheney was not anti-apartheid.
Should've said "pro-," of course. Sorry!
of course he was! boy that was hard. i am sure to receive a beating from my handlers today.
kwak
How about Marshall Tito or the French Resistence? Were they terrorists?
Philatheles kos the kwak.
'Both questions are tangential to the important issues'
I am content to have you not mischaracterize Cheney as "staunchly pro-apartheid" ; you seem to have been happy to restate that one. I do not know Cheney's other opinions on south africa well enough to represent them.
'someone who's NOT fighting for freedom, but for theocratic tyranny, like Osama bin Laden?'
are self described mahdists in iraq fighting for theocratic tyranny or freedom? iranian revolutionists? HAMAS?
are self described mahdists in iraq fighting for theocratic tyranny or freedom? iranian revolutionists? HAMAS?
So I take it that Ronald Reagan was wrong to call the Afghan resistence "freedom fighters" then?
Well folks, I'm off to beddy-byes. I'll let you guys finish eating this exceptionally plump and tasty troll, 'cause I'm full to bursting.
I'd like to stay up and see Thersites and SWR pull the wishbone, but I've got to get to sleep. I've got important nightmares to attend to this evening, several of which involve castration with razor wire.
'Night all!
SWR to the extent those folks have targeted civilians and answered to no elected civil authority, yes they have been.
You're a moron, etc. etc.
swr
good-one
are self described mahdists in iraq fighting for theocratic tyranny or freedom? iranian revolutionists? HAMAS?
Would you call Ronald Reagan a "terrorist supporter"?
Because he was funding Islamic fundamentalists at the same time Cheney (you argue) was voting against terrorists.
BTW, I'm still not too clear on how voting against sanctions against a racist government is somehow a protest against terrorism?
The racist government would be the same racist government if its opponents were pacifists or if they used violence.
SWR to the extent those folks have targeted civilians and answered to no elected civil authority, yes they have been.
So Ronald Reagan supported terrorists?
Wow. We had a state funeral in DC for a terrorist supporter and Bush went to it.
Jeeze. You learn something new every day.
'so i guess reagan blah blah'
more fucking red herrings & tu quoques.
more fucking red herrings & tu quoques.
kwak | Email | Homepage | 10.03.04 - 3:19 am | #
How so. Ronald Reagan funded Islamic fundamentalists and called them "Freedom Fighters" at the same time your hero Cheney was refusing to vote for sanctions against South Africa?
How can that be?
SWR, the ANC was considered terrorists by many people other than Dick Cheney. As noted above, JFK's government helped put him behind bars. Phil cited a congressional resolution on Mandelas behalf as evidence that Cheney endorsed apartheid. He was graceful enough to retract this misrepresentation, then ruined it all with some lame insults finally slinking off into the night sucking his thumb.
kwak, when is it proper and legal to use murderous force? Have you read article 39 of the UN Charter? Or article 6, clause 2 of the US Constitution? Have you actually answered in a forthright manner Philatheles posts, or anyone elses?
No. Just selective memory, selective use of facts and law.
Shorter kwak whatever I say is terrorism or lawful is true.
Phil cited a congressional resolution on Mandelas behalf as evidence that Cheney endorsed apartheid.
How does voting for sanctions against a racist government endorse every group opposed to that racist government?
Your defense of Cheney is weak.
BTW "Kwak". You are a white South African, right? Tell me if I've guessed that one correctly.
SWR, no he's just an idiot.
no imagination, i refuse to traipse around following every irrelevance. I am happy to consider and answer comments I consider germane and ignore those I don't. As are you. Feel free to ignore me altogether.
SWR, no he's just an idiot.
no imagination | Email | Homepage | 10.03.04 - 3:29 am | #
The two groups aren't mutually exclusive.
i refuse to traipse around following every irrelevance.- kwak
So article 39 of the UN Charter and article 6, clause 2 of the US Constitution are now irrelevant, but article 4 of the Geneva convention is paramount?
Feel free to ignore me altogether.- kwak
I've felt free since the beginning you silly troll.
you guys don't understand the geneva conventions at all. they exist to protect invaders and occupiers from being harmed by the people in the countries they attempt to conquer. get with the program.
The two groups aren't mutually exclusive.- SWR
Sad but true. And I almost lost a mouthful of Pyramid India Pale- you're lucky, elsewise I'd be sending you a bill for a new screen.
Olaf glad and big, seems that way doesn't it?
fuck the screen. i'd be sending him a bill for a new pyramid pale ale.
Sad but true. And I almost lost a mouthful of Pyramid India Pale- you're lucky, elsewise I'd be sending you a bill for a new screen.
no imagination | Email | Homepage | 10.03.04 - 3:37 am | #
I've notice that there are a lot of bitter white South Africans (Kim DuToit, a lot of posters at LGF) lurking in and participating in the right wing the blogsphere.
I'm only going by the name "Kwak" and the stubborn belief that the ANC was a terrorist organization.
Kwak sounds Dutch and even most American conservatives don't defend Apartheid anymore. You have to go to Stormfront for that.
you're prolly right, swr.
SWR, I really can't disagree with your analysis and I wonder if he is not our 88 friend- anyway, I just liked calling him an idiot.
He also ran away when I asked the question.
SWR, likely he'll be back.
It seems as if Cheney is a "flip flopper"
On ABC's ``This Week,'' Cheney defended his 1986 vote against a resolution that called for U.S. recognition of the African National Congress in South Africa, freedom for the organization's then-imprisoned leader Nelson Mandela and negotiations with the black majority.
``The ANC was then viewed as a terrorist organization,'' Cheney said Sunday. ``It was a step that we simply weren't prepared to take.''
Now, Cheney says he believes the ANC has ``mellowed'' and Mandela is ``a great man.''
``He deserves an enormous amount of credit for the transformation of South Africa,'' Cheney said ``But I don't have any problems at all with the vote I cast 20 years ago.''
JesseGordon gave this response on 7/31/2000:
Here's some details of the actual votes that Cheney voted on with regards to South Africa:
1) In 1986, he voted against a sense-of-the-House resolution calling on the white-controlled government in South Africa to free Mandela.
2) He voted against measures that sought to ensure the application of a variety of US civil rights laws.
3) He voted NO to imposing South African sanctions over Reagan veto in 1986.
In short, even if he DID believe that Mandela was a "terrorist," he could have voted on the 2nd and 3rd issues. So Cheney's "opposition to apartheid" was pretty weak, no matter what.
SWR, seriously, have you considered becoming a researcher on the activities of neo-nazi, racist movements on the net? You seem to spend more time than I learning about "thine enemy," (as a soft liberal pinko I've barely the stomach for it, yet it is as fascinating as a car wreck- I can't help but look from time to time).
This might just be important. Cheney considered Nelson Mandela a terrorist.
In his mind, a war on terror might just be consistent with supporting the former white government of South Africa.
This is not the sort of person you want running our country.
This is not the sort of person you want running our country.- bad Jim
Agreed. That and he's an opportunistic bastard- whatever makes him money, he's in favor for.
Hi vivian, just one question, if you know of course,
why is the majority of Kansas people vote for these repugs scum?
It's like they screw average working people, and keep voting for them!
any texan out there?
please explain that.
Chances are, it's worse. He's probably a racist nutcase, too. Why is he still ranting that Saddam was behind 9/11?
He was immunised against facts as a subject in a secret CIA program back in the 60's, which is why he was never drafted.
His dogged devotion to his discredited creed commended itself to the Reagan crowd, so he rose once again into prominence. Unable to learn by himself, he surrounded himself with people who thought like him, and when tasked to find a vice president for Bush he simply lacked the capacity to think of anyone better.
Question for the Trolls:
If Iraq invaded your country, what would YOU do to stop them?
Dickheads. Until you understand that your "enemies" are like you, exactly like you, you will never beat them. Sure there are a few religious nutcases there, but the vast majority fight for exactly the same reasons you would: To get an occupying army off their territory.
Why is that so hard to accept? Why can't you understand? Are you nuts?
If you think that they will "give up" if you blow up Samarra, or knock enough of their children into sandy graves, you are, frankly, delusional.
Put it this way: Would YOU "give up"?
Fucking morons.
.
Hoeffel-Specter debate coverage, hot off the press. The poll numbers the articles cite at the end look really grim for Hoeffel. I thought he was closer than that.
http://www.mcall.com/news/local/...l-newslocal-
hed
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/0...4277/
389678.stm
[wind whistling across dusty town square as various armed cowboys rest their hands on the butts of their holstered revolvers]
"It's quiet... too quiet.
[rattlesnake sounds]
Now if Rupert Murdoch would just be hit by a bolt of lightning, my faith would be restored.
Evilboy | Email | Homepage | 10.02.04 - 5:59 pm | #
Karl Rove, too, please.
This is great news. Unfortunately, blowback's a bitch. We can only imagine what KR's got up his sleeve for October.
We need to float the idea that Bush gets to be Baseball commissioner if he loses - plant the idea in some non-liberal media - maybe that would sound so appealing to him that he'd just give up
hopelesspedant | Email | Homepage | 10.02.04 - 6:51 pm | #
How about Nascar commissioner
wow, some real nuts come out in the middle of the night. shorter kwak--george washington and the american revolutionaries were terrorists.
dutch? sorry, no.
' the stubborn belief that the ANC was a terrorist organization.'
That belief was shared by among others, the US State department for well over 20 years, including the time during which Cheney cast his votes. I have not endorsed apartheid so much as once on this thread nor would I (nor would cheney who has voiced criticism of apartheid numerous times as P. Im sure is well aware.)
Worm, until the left comes up with a handy way to distinguish "wars of liberation" from criminal terrorist insurrection of the McVeigh stripe, I maintain my own definition, so plum crazy its codified in the terms of the fourth geneva convention, which apparently none of you have ever bothered to read.
The minutemen never targeted civilian non-combatants, I don't know where that bizarre analogy comes from. 'One mans terrorist is another man's freedom fighter' sounds clever, but it's really quite sophomoric. Tim McVeigh thought he was a freedom fighter (so do a lot of people like him.) So did the cop killing Symbionese liberation nuts and Black Panthers. 'theocratic tyranny' is clearly a bogus disqualifier, since "mahdi" Al Sadr is fighting for just that, as was Khomenei and half a dozen other left wing jihadi darlings.
what were those 'measures that sought to ensure the application of a variety of US civil rights laws?' The sanctions as remedy question has been addressed upthread, it no more constitutes support for apartheid than opposing sanctions on iraq endorses baathism or opposing sanctions on Cuba endorses one party state socialism.
Your 'freedom fighters' arent fighting for freedom in Iraq. Even Kerry has [half heartedly] acknowledged this basic fact. Most of their victims are civilian and Iraqi -- check the IBC database if you dont believe me.
And of course the King David Hotel - era Irgun was terrorist, so was the IRA and half a dozen other right wing militia movements. This proves what exactly? That 'terrorism' as a concept has no valid application? that seems to be the direction you're heading here.
' You seem to spend more time than I learning about "thine enemy,"'
indeed, so much time you seem to be able to find neonazis / racist south africans under every rock.
Characters Remaining:
Commenting by HaloScan
