I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Yeah. We were saying to each other during the debate, "Do people know that Chenron is lying?"
Which, of course, was reliably followed by: "Go Fuck Yourself™."
I didn't believe it when I heard it.
fUCKIN' duh!
O
O
Edwards wins
ABC News post-debate poll, MoE of +/- 4.5%
Cheney win: 43%
Edwards win: 35%
Tie: 19%
Here's the key though. Let's look at the sample:
Republicans: 38%
Democrats: 31%
Independents: 27%
If you recalculate that to represent the actual electorate, it's an Edwards win.
more here
'duh'
i concur
excellent work, i was wondering how long that would take. lets hope the liberal media picks up on it actually unlike all the other lies they skimed over
MSNBC is soooo in the tank for Cheney...it is sickening...help write to them and complain please....
tweety just mentioned that ms. edwards reminded dick of that after the debate. i'll bet she mentions it to a few more folks, too.
He's not lying -- he's just getting along in years.
You know, the memory is the second thing to go, right after your ethics.
How about hammering the fact that Cheney admitted ignorance of the HIV epidemic among African-American women?
Thank You atrios,
one part of the debate really pissed me off. i mean blood red head pissed off. cheney, talking about divisiveness in the country, acted like it was democrats fault for not rolling over for everything these lying war criminals want. he may have softened up for the electorate at large, but he is still one evil bastard.
that superior smugness doesn't impress me one bit.
YEs, Tweetie mentioned it, but then dismissed it as irrelevant. And there he goes again.
And I've yet to hear anywhere that it's standard practice for Congress-folk running for president to miss a lot of votes but come back for important or close ones. Bastards.
I can't listen to Tweetie anymore. And HTF does Ginsberg keep getting on these shows?
Where are all the promised clickable links to the polls? They were posted earlier, but absent now.
Guess I'll go dig them up and post them here if I can find them. OY! Time's a wasting.
Fox poll needs some votes. Scroll down on the right:
http://www.foxnews.com/
Yeah Tweety, Cheney came out hunting fur squirrel. Unfortunately the squirrel gave him a heart attack. Fuck you Tweety, and the horse you rode in on.
Darrell Hammond Debates John Edwards, World Doesn't Notice
Most of the freep list works for clickable poll:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focu...s/1236185/
posts
Sen. Leahy on MSNBC just said that yeah, Cheney comes to Capital Hill every Tues., but he only meets with Republicans. Might explain why he doesn't think he's met Edwards.
DOes this debate really mean anything for the rethugs?Does it garner them more votes?
I seriously doubt it.
Edwards IMO was very sharp,tho he was a little put off by the lies and the way Ifill was softballing the veep.Sickening, it was, in the fact that cheney gets the glosssing he does.
We really do need a change.I hope that America saw this in this debate.
Personally, I thought that Lionel Barrymore gave the performance of his life as Dick Cheney tonight.
Uh-oh. I think Ben Ginsberg is about to challange Tweety to a duel.
Developing...
Cheney lied worse than that. Chris Matthews is actually haranguing Ben Ginsberg asking why Cheney denied ever linking Saddam Hussein and 9/11, correcting Ginsberg and threatening to roll tape of Cheney saying just that.
I kind of acting like a spammer, but,
This is the Flagship station of Clear Channel Radio, headquartered in San Antonio.
Go to their poll and give some turkee!
http://www.woai.com
I promise, no more of these appeals.
Why lie about this - it makes no sense???
Factcheck.com is now forwarding to georgesoros.com.
BEN GINGSBERG IS FLOATING ON MSNBC!!!! MATTHEWS NAILED HIS ASS TO THE WALL!!!
Uh-oh. I think Ben Ginsberg is about to challenge Tweety to a duel.
Developing...
Why did Gwen Ifill require the debaters not to mention their running mates' names? What was that all about?
Why lie about this - it makes no sense???
Not a lie. Senility?
Is this the only lie cheney told tonight?
I don't know why Matthews is sticking to the Cheney won meme. He really just hammered that GOP stooge Ginsberg on Cheney's declaiming that he had never drawn a connection between 9/11 and Saddam.
Could MSNBC be getting ready to pivot?
Thankfully, Tweety woke up for a second
Ok, here we go again. Tweetie smacking down Ginsberg for trying to lie about Iraq-9/11 and say the commission report suggested there was.
BUT, he's really harping on the fact that they have a tape of Cheney saying there's a connection. Remember how he only got incensed at the Bushies before beacuse they were distorting Kerry's appearance on Hardball? Does he care about the truth or some bizarre set of values about stuff on tape?
Wow, that didn't take long! Go, blogs!!
Also, Cheney told everyone to go to "factcheck.com", when he meant factcheck.org. factcheck.com is some worthless spammy site. This will get a few online grandparents very confused and angry.
Also, factcheck.org has tons of bad headlines four Bush, starting with "Bush Mischaracterizes Kerry's Health Plan"
Holy crap, Chris Matthews is destroying his own spawn on the air over Dick's statements on the Iraq-Osama connection. Is Chris bi-polar or suffering from a fit of honesty??
Remember when Cheney said he's in the Senate on Tuesdays? I do not believe they hold many (if any) votes early in the week, so why would Edwards even be there on those days?
Gwen also, last word for me on this, was an ass-sucking whore tonight. What the fuck was up with those questions? Those could have come from a child! "Mr. Vice President, you have 90 seconds to describe John Edwards." Excuse me?? That is fucking idiotic--and shame on you for allowing Cheney the opportunity to call you on it, you dumbass! Apparently, Gwen thinks she is being "edgy" and brave by asking the questions nobody else asks. But, she's really asking the questions every normal person would be ashamed to ask, because the questions are so fucking dumb! "Let's talk about your gay daughter, Mr. Cheney..." "Now, Mr. Edwards, you get 90 seconds to talk about Mr. Cheney's gay daughter..." "What do you think of trial lawyers, Mr. Cheney?" "Mr. Edwards, as a trial lawyer, what qualities would you bring to the White House?"
Could this have possibly been more inane?! There's nothing sadder than trying (and failing) to ask "hard hitting" questions in a debate format that'a all about style, not substance! Oh, well, just more evidence that the Jim Lehrer crowd doesn't get it...
Yeah, my girlfriend was just saying that if Cheney is in the senate every week and doesn't meet with all the senators, that's kind of bad. Nice to hear Leahy point out that Cheney only meets with Republicans.
This lie about meeting Edwards is really just going to backfire into the wrong dicussion about Edwards' attendence record
I don't know why Matthews is sticking to the Cheney won meme.
After Tweety saw the online poll results he has changed his tune. Edwards is killing Cheney in those polls. Absolutely killing him.
Boy was I ever wrong. If last Thursday night's debate was an assisted suicide for president Bush, this debate - just concluded - was a car wreck. And Cheney was road-kill. There were times when it was so overwhelming a debate victory for Edwards that I had to look away. I have to do C-SPAN now, but stay tuned for more post-debate blogging in a little while.
Andrew Sullivan
He may want to be rubbed by Cheney, but he was rubbed the wrong way....
I'm sick to my stomach just posting this. Ugh.
CNN JUST DROPPED THEIR POLL AND CHANGED THE QUESTION:
http://www.cnn.com/POLLSERVER/
re...70.exclude.html
IS NO LONGER ON THEIR FRONT PAGE, POLITICS PAGE, OR DEBATE PAGE. You'll find a question that asks if the debate has influenced your vote.
Bad CNN. BAD.
Cheney looked drawn and unhealthy. Reminded me of the joke about George Bush being just a heartbeat away from the presidency.
matthews just stated edwards leading in his poll at 70%
keep it up!
Rethugs are going after FOX poll. It's 50-49 Edwards now. Gotta keep John in the lead!
Wow. Did anyone just see Chris Matthews on Hardball a moment ago?
He was tearing into how Cheney lied about asserting a connection between Saddam and Al Qaeda?
Matthews does have his moments.
Before the break, Matthews said Ginsberg would be back for more questions. After the break, no Ginsberg!
actually were killing thos polls, pubs havent figured out computers yet
JFC!!! Mrs. Greenspan is even worse than last week- Cheney reopened the "stature gap, not by having the facts, but by presenting them better..."
Let me simply respond to that by quoting her hero of the evening:
Go Fuck Yourself!
Hehe, looks like George Soros has quickly bought the previously empty factcheck.com and redirected it to his own homepage!!! Nice quick work there...
That haggard whore Andrea Mitchell keeps going on about an alleged "stature" gap between Edwards and Cheney. She says he was "unprepared." What a crock of media whore bullshit.
Fuck you bitch.
tweety just mentioned that ms. edwards reminded dick of that after the debate.
Vice President Cheney immediately told her to go fuck herself.
[rim shot] Thank you! 
Awesome!
CBS reporting that their poll of undecideds favored Edwards!
From their web site:
"A CBS News poll of 169 uncommitted voters found that 41 percent said Edwards won the debate, versus 29 percent who said Cheney won. Thirty percent said it was a tie."
>Factcheck.com is now forwarding to georgesoros.com
Dear owner of factcheck.com
I'm sorry I called your site worthless. After the election, I promise to re-visit your site and consider purchasing some of your educational products.
I know Cheney misspoke when he said factcheck.com instead of .org. And the .com site was a spammy sort of site an hour ago, but the owner has redirected it to georgesoros.com which has the headline:
Why we must not relect president Bush...
Did Mrs. Greenspan watch the same debate that I did?
That was part of what killed it for me. Cheney lied so many times, that I knew about, and Edwards, being a lawyer, a talented lawyer at that, should have gone for the jugular.
Kerry needs to do the same.
Treat the Bushists like the suit and tied mafioso that they are.
Hehe, looks like George Soros has quickly bought the previously empty factcheck.com and redirected it to his own homepage!!! Nice quick work there...
where is the fox news poll i cant find it???????
link me directly please
Yes, Chris the Screamer PeaceCorpsBoy Matthews is bipolar. He just reamed Ginsberg, with the actual facts he should have been citing for two years.... Weird....
Peace all!
this is nit-picking and really not a substantive issue. better to go after him on policy issues where he lied versus whining
Andrea Bitchell is proclaims John Edwards unprepared for the vice presidency.
Eschatonian proclaims Andrea Bitchell a horses' ass.
And a very large and unattractive horses' ass, at that.
Could MSNBC be getting ready to pivot?
Sorry for repeating myself, again, but
nope. MSNBC has decided, internally, that their best strategy is to go after moderate Republican voters, the ones they argue that CNN lost because they got too liberal.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. That is MSNBC's policy. Whether MSNBC is hallucinating, well, that's a peacock of a different color. But, that is their game plan.
So, I doubt that they are getting ready to pivot.
Have we all told Atrios today how much we love him?
Nice work, Atrios.
(I posted in an old thread by mistake, so I'm reposting here):
I think Edwards won, and will win the post-debate polling--though by a smaller margin than Kerry trashing Bush.
But that's not what matters in a veep debate.
The bigger lasting effect is whether either one instills or solidifies a key theme in the minds of the voters.
The Rs have already done that on the biggest theme that is going to hurt Kerry. They spent millions to tarnish Kerry with the flip-flopper label. Kerry let him get away with it and for a lot of people it's there for good. (And deadly.)
But finally Kerry began to make a few key ideas stick to Bush, too, last Thursday--particularly complete failure in Iraq, and delinking 9/11 and War on Terror from Iraq. Edwards did a great job of hammering both home, and I think the key thing here is that those ideas continue to sink in and resonate with the public.
That is key. Bush can/will lose this election if the voters agree that the war in Iraq is a disaster and it's symptomatic of his incompetence.
And if all the people voting for Bush because of his strength in the War on Terror--and that's a key to his support--start to lose that feeling because they quit associating the invasion with that War, that can also win us this election.
Those are the ideas that will win or lose this for us, and Kerry never made them stick until last week. Kerry hammering away at those effectively and getting the public to take hold of them, that's what he really needed to do. And he did it wonderfully.
Here's hoping Cheney will have a late-night cheeseburger and fries.
With the stress of his sinking ship, it will be in god's hands what happens to his heart.
In Cheney's defense, he wasn't so much lying as just forgetting to mention that it's been his feeling since 2000 that he hasn't really needed to speak to ANY Democrat in the Senate other than Zell Miller... unless of course it was to tell them to go and fuck themselves.
Andrea Mitchell prefer old balding men anyway, don't listen to her
The first thing in my mind when Cheney said it was GOOGLE!
Also, the absolutely stupid statement that he never said that Iraq was involved with 9/11. I knew how many times I had seen it myself.
It's a cheap shot to go after him on these lies, but, hey, that's the rules that have been established. So let's go after him with no hesitation or reluctance.
In Cheney's defense, he wasn't so much lying....
Nah, he fucking lied his ass off.
Andrea Mitchell is spreading her legs in front of the entire country tonight.
Kos says:
And then theres this, which should offer up photos at some point soon (and we all know how people need pictures for reality to sink in):
Senator Edwards Escorted Elizabeth Dole When She Was Sworn In As North Carolina's Other Senator. Elizabeth Dole was sworn in as North Carolina's other senator on January 8, 2003. Gannet News Service wrote: "As per Senate tradition, Sen. John Edwards, D-N.C., escorted her."
Dole Took The Senate Oath Administered By Vice President Dick Cheney. According to Gannet News Service: "[Dole] raised her right hand and took the oath administered by Vice President Dick Cheney, the Senate president." [Gannet News Service, 1/8/03]
Edwards won undecideds for Kerry. Cheney lied his way through the whold debate. Cheney doesn't know that Africa has an Aids problem. Cheny voted against Meals on Wheels. Cheney didn't have a heart attack. Edwards won the hearts of those listening. The women especially. That sums it up for me anyway.
CNN JUST DROPPED THEIR POLL AND CHANGED THE QUESTION:
http://www.cnn.com/POLLSERVER/
re...70.exclude.html
IS NO LONGER ON THEIR FRONT PAGE, POLITICS PAGE, OR DEBATE PAGE. You'll find a question that asks if the debate has influenced your vote.
Bad CNN. BAD.
whoops.
"where is the fox news poll i cant find it???????
link me directly please"
dazed
It's on the foxnews homepage and it's on the right side more than half way down says "On The Record"
Jeez how fucking hard is it?? Come on people!
Ginsberg is only slightly more scary than Dick-O Cheney. Those beaty, shark like eyes fill me with horror.
The part that got me riled in the debate was the VPs assertion that in citing that the U.S. is bearing 90% of the coalition casualties Edwards is dismissing the contributions of Iraqis.
Fact is: 1,064 of the 1,202 total casualties are American, that is 88.5% of the total. Iraq has endured (if that is the right word) over 15,000 civilian lives, an increase in sacrifice 1,250%. How many died for their country? Hard to say...so know one should really mention the civilian dead. Civilian deaths are not as noble and as venerated as military deaths. And until they are, we will always have more Iraqs to fuss over.
Have the freepers thrown in the towel? I've been going like a good little girl to all the polls listed and voting and Edwards is destroying (90+ in one) Cheney. Does this reflect the fact that like Cheney, the debate kept them way up past their bedtime, or that they are way dispirited having been confronted with the truth?
On Kos, he posted the fact that when Elizabeth Dole was sworn in as North Carolina's junior senator on 1/8/03, by Vice President Cheney (in his capacity as President of the Senate), Mrs. Dole was escorted to the dais, as is custom, by her fellow Senator from North Carolina.
John Edwards.
God DAMN! Cheney is a lying fuck!!!
If Andea Mitchell thought Edwards was unprepared, what did she think of Bush the other night? That he rode the short bus to the place and had the debating skills of a jello mold?
All the polls I can find are so Edwards kicking ass it makes me giddy.
THat said I have been to alot of those sites the freep link had and found few actual polls.
Voting where I can,how about some more links.If Tweety is changing his tune for the online polls we need to give him/them some more fodder.
Please, please, please, if there is any justice left in this sick, sad world, let the press start questioning Cheney's memeory because of this.
Cheney: too senile?
MMMMMmmmmmmm. That's tasty.
There should be a video of John Edwards escorting Mrs. Dole to be sworn in by Cheney. This is a MUCH bigger lie than the "James Lee Whit" misstatement by Gore 4 years ago that the whole entire media pounced on.
And let me add that I've heard this stupid bullshit "Kerry gave aid and comfort to the enemy" ad already 4-5 times today. I'm sorry for these women's losses. But their husbands didn't suffer because of John Kerry, they suffered because of JFK, LBJ, RMN, McNamara, Kissinger etc. etc. et-f-ing-cetera. I'm sorry for them that they are able to maintain such bitter bile 30 years later that they have learned little about whom to trust.
How many died for their country? Hard to say...so know one should really mention the civilian dead. Civilian deaths are not as noble and as venerated as military deaths. And until they are, we will always have more Iraqs to fuss over.
As Bill Schnieder(!) pointed out, as unfortunate as Iraqi deaths are, they were not considered part of the coalition of countries in the effort.
OTOH, don't forget Poland.
Still no Ginsburg, bipolar Matthews left the poor sod hangin' Finally, CM shows some hard nad. Or is it just for show? Place?
Well, that was pretty annoying.
What kind of night is it where I agree with Andrew Sullivan?
fuck.
oooooo, Jeff Greenfield just said the Bush camp isn't going to be happy with Cheney's "strenghth" in the long run. what's up with that?
Kerry Blog has the photo:
http://blog.johnkerry.com/blog/a...ves/
003154.html
Next debate Friday.
Edwards was fine. Cheney was a forceful liar. You can appear to win a debate win you lie, but the facts will catch up with you (hopefully).
Had Edwards been debating Bush, he would have won in a landslide.
Best news its Kerry vs Bush on Friday.
This one was close to a draw and will be forgotten
Uh-oh. I think Ben Ginsberg is about to challenge Tweety to a duel. Developing...
YOU OWE ME A NEW COMPUTER...
I just spit my soda out on my keyboard!!!
ROTFLMAO
Did Edwards put him away? NO
Did he need to? NO
Did undecideds have a favourable impression of Cheney before the debate? NO
Are their impresions of Cheney likely to have been changed by this debate? NO
So the net result is a wash and on to the next debate. The one thing undecideds might take away from this debate is that Cheney - Kerry would be a better face-off and given the chimps performance in the 1st debate, why isn't Cheney president? or is he?
I think this 'I never met you until just now' line is going to blow up in Cheney's face. Not only is it a stupid thing to lie about, and so easy to refute... but it makes him look like a wierd compulsive liar, who prefers to lie as opposed to tell the truth. I worked with a guy like this. He would lie about anything... stupid stuff, like what kind of car he drove. Is Dick Cheney a compulsive liar?
Washington Post....
Report Discounts Iraqi Arms Threat
U.S. Inspector Says Hussein Lacked Means
and
There fact-check pummels Cheney...
Go take a look...
Here is Dick's lie:
"Now, in my capacity as vice president, I am the president of Senate, the presiding officer. I'm up in the Senate most Tuesdays when they're in session.
The first time I ever met you was when you walked on the stage tonight."
Posted this earlier on wrong thread. sorry.
I think people who don't realize how much Cheney is lying could think he won on the national security questions. Edwards missed the opportunity to skewer him on how they LET Al Zarqawi hang out in Kurdish Iraq in order to bolster the case for the war. Also passed on reminding people of Cheney's closeness not to Allawi, but to the Iranian spy Chalabi. As a result, some of Cheney's lies came off SOUNDING reasonable and supported by facts, even though they're not. Edwards dredging up Cheney's votes from 30 years ago was weak, no matter how objectionable those votes were. Did Edwards get better later on the domestic questions? I had to miss the second half.
go buy an assault weapon first thing tomorrow. then find a range.and practice.
some think it best to hit them from the waist up. i think from the waist down. the gut, the groin, and thighs and knees.
these are areas where the death is a lingering one.
and all of dick'em cheney's friends and associates should linger.
The part that got me riled in the debate was the VPs assertion that in citing that the U.S. is bearing 90% of the coalition casualties Edwards is dismissing the contributions of Iraqis.
Fact is: 1,064 of the 1,202 total casualties are American, that is 88.5% of the total. Iraq has endured (if that is the right word) over 15,000 civilian lives, an increase in sacrifice 1,250%. How many died for their country? Hard to say...so know one should really mention the civilian dead. Civilian deaths are not as noble and as venerated as military deaths. And until they are, we will always have more Iraqs to fuss over.
On the African-Americans with AIDS question, I thought that the moderator asked about African-American MALES from 24-44. Cheney's answer referred to FEMALES.
Did I hear it wrong?
Guess I was confused by the never-ending buzzsaw of lies.
ACTION ALERT
Official Kerry Blog now has a photo of Edwards and Cheney together at aforementioned prayer breakfast.
http://blog.johnkerry.com/
Don't forget to attach it to your letters to the media expressing dismay that the Vice President is so dishonest.
I'm sure Henry Rollins wouldn't mind a little tribute to Big Dick (sorry for the length, but I expect a lot of people have moved on to the new thread):
you think you're gonna to live your life alone
in darkness
and seclusion
yeah I know
you've been out there
tried to mix with those animals
and it just left you full of humiliated confusion
so you stagger back home
and wait for nothing
but the solitary refinement of your room spits you back out onto the street
and now you're desperate
and in need of human contact
and then
you meet me
and you whole world changes
because everything I say is everything you've ever wanted to hear
so you drop all your defenses and you drop all your fears
and you trust me completely
I'm perfect
in every way
cause I make you feel so strong and so powerful inside
you feel so lucky
but your ego obscures reality
and you never bother to wonder why
things are going so well
you wanna know why?
cause I'm a liar
yeah I'm a liar
I'll tear your mind out
I'll burn your soul
I'll turn you into me
I'll turn you into me
cause I'm a liar, a liar
a liar, a liar
I'll hide behind a smile
and understanding eyes
and I'll tell you things that you already know
so you can say
I really identify with you, so much
and all the time that you're needing me
is just the time that I'm bleeding you
don't you get it yet?
I'll come to you like an affliction
and I'll leave you like an addiction
you'll never forget me
you wanna know why?
cause I'm a liar
yeah I'm a liar
I'll rip your mind out
I'll burn your soul
I'll turn you into me
I'll turn you into me
cause I'm a liar, a liar
liar, liar, liar, liar
I don't know why I feel the need to lie
and cause you so much pain
maybe it's something inside
maybe it's something I can't explain
cause all I do
is mess you up and lie to you
I'm a liar
oh, I am a liar
if you'll give me one more chance
I swear that I will never lie to you again
because now I see the destructive power of a lie
they're stronger than truth
I can't believe I ever hurt you
I swear
I will never to you lie again, please
just give me one more chance
I will never lie to you again
I swear
that I will never tell a lie
I will never tell a lie
no, no
ha ha ha ha ha hah haa haa haa haaa
sucker
sucker!
oh, sucker
I am a liar
yeah, I am a liar
yeah I like it
I feel good
ohh I am a liar
yeah
I lie
I lie
I lie
oh, I lie
oh I lie
I lie
yeah
ohhh I'm a liar
I lie
yeah
I like it
I feel good
I'll lie again
and again
I'll lie again and again
and I'll keep lying
I promise
Hell, Cheney lied almost the whole time- when he made that statement, and that was one of the more egregious staements.
FOX NEWS
Who won Tuesday night's vice presidential debate?
a. Vice President Cheney (47%)
30,589
b. Senator Edwards (52%)
33,547
c. I did not watch (0%)
374
d. None of the above (1%)
464
64,974 total votes
Nail in the coffin of the debate; this needs to be plastered throughout the media tomorrow.
Here is photo of Cheney and Edwards at the breakfast
Those are the ideas that will win or lose this for us, and Kerry never made them stick until last week. Kerry hammering away at those effectively and getting the public to take hold of them, that's what he really needed to do. And he did it wonderfully.
Enter John Edwards to keep this point hammered home.
If this debate did nothing it reaffirmed what Kerry told the public last week.
There was no connection between Iraq and AQ!
GO J & J!
aReader: thanks!
Notice how Cheney blocked the mike a bit and his sound levels went down when he put he folded his hands? That's a clear symptom of lack of preperation. Odd. He certainly has the savvy to know how important this debate was to the race. Explanation: My guess is he also has the savvy to know he's already lost.
Notice how Cheney blocked the mike a bit and his sound levels went down when he put he folded his hands? That's a clear symptom of lack of preperation. Odd. He certainly has the savvy to know how important this debate was to the race. Explanation: My guess is he also has the savvy to know he's already lost.
Edwrds-Cheney picture from 2001 prayer breakfast
http://blog.johnkerry.com/blog/a...ves/
003154.html
Kerry now leads in Ohio and Iowa
Crowley is playing the "I don't believe we can take four more years" again.
Two things:
What was Cheney saying about the divisiveness in congress being due to the fact that Republicans has a lock on power. Weird.
Also, on Olberman's blog:
But that fact is eminently spinnable, and if Democrats can prove they did meet, or that Edwards was physically in the Senate the last four years as often as Cheney, prime memory of the bout could be turned into Republican disaster.
I think there are a lot of worse things that can happen than every Bush supporter going to FactCheck.org over the next few days.
Bush Ad Twists Kerry's Words on Iraq
Bush Mischaracterizes Kerry's Health Plan
GOP Website Uses Misleading Kerry Quote On Abortion
He was talking about seeing him in the congressional chambers, people.
The statement was taken in the context that Edwards has missed most committe votes, and most votes last session.
Hah- on MSGOP, Cheney as Joe Isuzu "except they can't run the subtitle under him saying He's lying" Good one, whoever said it.
Notice how Cheney blocked the mike a bit and his sound levels went down when he put he folded his hands? That's a clear symptom of lack of preperation. Odd. He certainly has the savvy to know how important this debate was to the race. Explanation: My guess is he also has the savvy to know he's already lost.
The server is moving slow again, here's a link to the latest comment thread.
Daily Show! (well in Canada it's playing now), they're doing the Bremmer thing right now
Someone also needs to check exactly how often Cheney went to the Senate.
Also, that was a real Cheney-as-mean-assistant-junior-high-principal moment.
Hmm, if as some have been suggesting, one of their primary goals was to pound into the American consciousness (particularly 62% of Republicans) that Iraq does not equal 9/11, then I just have two words for you:
Mission Accomplished!
Is Dick Cheney a compulsive liar?- Falstaff
I know it was a rhetorical question, but YES. That man could have shamed Machiavelli.
Cheney cast the deciding vote six times in the past four years as President of the Senate. Edwards was there for all six votes.
Source: senate.gov
THe man Cheney is
he didn't even say thank you to Edwards at end of debate
He was talking about seeing him in the congressional chambers, people.
Cheney: "The first time I met you was when you walked on the stage tonight."
Nice try, brownshirt. You can go back to the circlejerk now...
Liars need good memories, Dick.
.
Cheney;s answer to photo: it was taken in february of 2001 and, you know, 9-11 changed everything, including reality
Edwards won. We'll know this tomorrow. Cheney's "I never met you" lie means we win the spin: it was a dumb lie, he's nailed, and that gives us the spin win. Use it!
CNN's fact checking is demonstrating that Cheney is a lying sack of shit.
Another "lie" from a friend's blog:
During the debate, Cheney sent people to "factcheck.com" to find out how his record with Halliburton.
1. He meant factcheck.org. Which, btw, currently features headlines all about Bush distorting the facts.
2. During the debate (I checked) factcheck.com was one of those portal type advertising sites. Now? The URL has been bought and it directs people to a George Soros site that is filled with plenty of "Why Bush shouldn't be re-elected" info.
Bill Schneider talking on CNN..
He says we are not paying 90% of the costs in Iraq because we have only spent $120 billion of an alloted $200 billion.
What does that have to do with who is paying? It is still our $120 billion right?
What a worthless segment...
I think that this is the first time in election history where I have ever seen things like "fact check" on the likes of Yahoo news, and Hardball and NBC news digging up and showing Cheney lying his ass off.
Amazing.
Weren't Cheney and Edwards both at Ronald Reagan's funeral?
As sad as it is, the SCLM will chase the "Cheney lied about meeting Edwards" soccer ball if we make it REALLY big and obvious for them. Let's flood them with the pictures, dates and quotes. Sure he lied about more substantive issues, but we KNOW they'll feel they have to treat that in a "balanced" way. Its payback for their stupid "global test" meme.
what might be more frightening is that Cheney actually believes he never met Edwards...
Senility and a limp dick!
I agree, that global test idea of Kerry's is dumb.
Civilian deaths are not as noble and as venerated as military deaths. And until they are, we will always have more Iraqs to fuss over.
During that part of the debate -- as heartless as it may sound -- I wished Edwards would have said "I'm not running for VP of Iraq, I'm running for VP of AMERICA."
Let's face it -- most people who routinely vote GOP don't give a shit about Iraqis, and those that aren't totally committed to Bush might have identified with the gist of that.
Send emails to the entire media - lets generate thousands of them about the photo of the two together at the prayer breakfast. Time to GORE Cheney!
Great photograph. I think a homerun will be a photograph of Edwards accompanying Elizabeth Dole when she was sworn in to her position. I'm sure there will be several photographs that include Cheney.
Cheney accused Edwards of absebteeism from the senate. He was running for presidential nomination, it was unavoidable.
Who has been more absent than GWB?
Especially after the Aug 6, 2001 PDB.
He was an absent president.
Just on NewsNight - Fact Checking:
The Pentagons own web site lists US casualties as 88.5% of total casualties.
Haliburton was investigated when Cheney was there, they have been found to be guilty and have had to pay fines.
There or only 470K companies, not 800K as Cheney claimed, that would be affected by an increase on personal income taxes >$200K. And most of these are second imcomes for people who rent out their yaghts occasionally and such, the vast majority of which have no employees.
The only Edwards thing was the "we've only spent $120K so far in Iraq", as they show some figure dated "through August, 2003."
WE HAVE A WINNING POST!!!!
Cheney cast the deciding vote six times in the past four years as President of the Senate. Edwards was there for all six votes.
Source: senate.gov
Chascarrillo
CONGRATULATIONS, CHASCARRILLO!
(I'm not sure what you won, but it is a point that we need to spred loud and clear. Perhaps in Cheney's view, he hasn't met an opponent unless he's told them to fuck off!)
IT"S HIT YAHOO!!!
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news...63&
sid=96378798
Wow! You all get to look like losers tonight, just like yer boy! ha ha
Cheney accused Edwards of absebteeism from the senate. He was running for presidential nomination, it was unavoidable.
Who has been more absent than GWB?
Especially after the Aug 6, 2001 PDB.
He was an absent president.
Can't say it enough: Dick, go Fuck yourself! Nobody else will, for real.
I despise that lump of shit.
Chicagodude, you broke the link :-(
please use http://tinyurl.com/ next time
thank you
Cheney's closing statement, after Edwards' personal story, was perfunctory.
You half expect him to open the window and yell, "Hey you kids, get off my lawn!"
Where Cheney's in his element is when he's dark. He positively glows when he talks about the potential for a nuclear attack on America. Grrrrr...we're all gonna die....grrrr....the terrorists are coming....grrrr....only my light saber can save you
Begala's comments
Before anyone even thinks about saying King Dick won this debate, check out the CBS poll of 160+ undecided voters... "Who won tonights debate" (I don't have the link handy):
Edwards - 41%
Cheney - 29%
Tie - 30%
Who won this debate media whores?!! I don't think it was the murderous cyborg on the right side of the table...
And yes, just in case any of you didn't know this before (perhaps you've only seen Gwen on PBS), she's ANOTHER conservative media whore.
Please note one more screw around - John Edwards did answer the question about Israel (go back and watch the whole debate, but especially towards the middle of the foreign policy portion, and you'll see what I mean... where the hell she was when he DID answer that, I have no idea).
I'm afraid a Cheney claim that he was referring only to seeing (or not seeing) Edwards in congressional chambers will stand up. Just sayin'.
AP's got the story up now.
STOP TRASHING CHENEY!
Hey, consider the man's qualifcations....
Cheney's been, every day, for four years now, a mere heartbeat away from another heartbeat.
I went to CNN and lookead at some dweeb called Tucker Carlson's "blog" - funny how mega corporations seem to think there's money in that word), and what he says is, probably unexpectedly, quite revealing.
You see Dweeb-Tucker was "blogging" (as we hipsters say) the debate.
He likes Dick.
Ahem. Anyway, he had very little to say. His "blog" was very short. Clearly determined to say what bad he could about Edwards, and what good he could say about Dick ("Dick is Good", maybe?), he ended up saying very little at all.
And what he did say was mostly bullshit. But then he says some really clever things. Like he said: "What a ludicrous argument Edwards is making. The rest of the world hates us because Bush is a liar? Please...
He's right. I'm from "the rest of the world", and basically, we don't hate you because Bush is a liar. Do we seem that dumb? We hate Bush, because Bush is a liar. Oh and a murdering psychopath warmonger scumbag. And Double for Dick.
.
freep'n polls is hard work, really hard work, 'specially when you have only have 56k and more internet security than the Dept. of Homeland Defense, granted that's not as much as we should have.
it was gratifying to see nos. like 90% to to 8% edwards, not scientific but gratifying.
Dick is and evil DICK! i wonder if Andrew will get his belly rub?
Having no viable excuse for lying about having never met Edwards, Cheney will have to say that he just plain forgot meeting him on at least two occasions. This will make him look old and senile and crush the notion that Cheney is the big, dependable brain behind Bush.
screen shot of Kerry with Edwards over at DailyKos
ACtually, I prefer the meme that Cheney did not lie he is just experiencing the onset of Alzheimer's
Go with the "Cheney's brain is fried" angle first and then fall-back on the Cheney is shameless liar.
Alzheimer's could also expalin why he keeps going around the country refuting what many in the executive branch are saying about Iraq, etc.
YEAH! Cheney's brain is turning to mush and it could not have happened to a more wicked man.
Dick cannot remember things very well any more, because he is old and senile.
And his colostomy bag needs changing.
.
Don't forget the lie about a Zarqawi/Saddam connection.
The CIA bitch-slapped the liars again with a report that there is no strong evidence of a leak.
This was what Gwen I. was referring to in her obscure question about "today's report."
Cheney lied his ass off.
Hey Dipstick,
How come the genius lawyer didn't bring it up, then? Just because he was in the same building doesn't mean they met.
Obviously, it didn't make an impression on Edwards.
Why isn't anyone talking about Cheney's BIG Mistake.
TALKING ABOUT EDUCATION INSTEAD OF JOBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The subject was on job losses and he went on and on about education and no child left behind.
THIS IS HYSTERICAL!!
Cheney advised listeners to go to www.Factcheck.com
Go and visit this site....It's too good.
Cheney obviously meant to send viewers to factcheck.org which is almost equally funny as the site is dominated by exposes of Bush campaign smears and distortions..,
The man Cheney is
he didn't even say thank you to Edwards at end of debate
Yep. Chimpy's handler is a very very small Dick, indeed.
..
Anon Brown just said CNN is 5 minutes away from showing the picture, he then said "it was a good line, though". Does anyone wonder why the Bushies lie?
more are coming
Aaron Brown is about to show the photo of Cheney and Edwards on CNN LIVE!!!
THIS IS IT LADIES AND GENTLEMAN!!!
This is the Al Gore Internet moment of 2004...
Middle America can latch on to this...
Not honest about meeting Edwards...Not Honest about Iraq...Not Honest with America...
must see new T-shirts!
http://lennonreport.blogspot.com
There was a moment in the debate where Cheney was talking about taking action on the day of 9/11. During that time he was dead on with his delivery. A cop watching the performance would be able to tell that he believed everything he was saying. The problem is that he never said Bush was the one who undertook that action. I think he did and had flight 93 shot down. I don't think that was a bad decision (if indited for it he should be pardoned), but it would be in violation of the law.
They lie because they have other priorities.
hey daisy.
why don't you look on the frontpage of atrios.
there is a picture of them right next to each other.
And the factchecking starts NOW!
"Taking out Zarqawi"
dick cheney=barbara bush
Factcheck.com is sending you to the GeorgeSoros.com site.
This is great, Love it-Front page says why you shouldn't re-elect George W Bush.
Cheney made a big Ass mistake saying factcheck.com when it should of been factcheck.org.
kevin
I agree, that global test idea of Kerry's is dumb.
I would too if that is actually what Kerry said and if you buy the Republican spin.
But here is what Kerry said in that first debate:
No president, through all of American history, has ever ceded, and nor would I, the right to preempt in any way necessary to protect the United States of America.
But if and when you do it, Jim, you have to do it in a way that passes the test, that passes the global test where your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing and you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons.
Video just shown on CNN!!!
That was the zinger all the conservative pundits were talking about on their blogs...
Important to fit this into the "fantasy world" storyline..
Claimed he'd never met Edwards.
I took that as just a jab, a stupid joke to rib him on what Republicans think as a "absent" Senate record.
I wouldn't take it too seriously.
The Pentagons own web site lists US casualties as 88.5% of total casualties.
a point that even cnn's bill AEI scheinder conceded.
i think in days to come this is going to be a clear kerry/edwards victory. on style (and ability to tell evil lies) cheney and edwards was a draw maybe even a slight cheney lead on terror, but since he was lying or refusing to answer the proposed question, in days to come...
write those letters to the editor.
50 per cent iraqi casualties, what a dick. as if it were a true sovereign nation.
i'm still hoping for a fish gutting , 2 debates to go, go kerry, go
Nice of that prick Scarborough to slam his audience. No wonder he doesn't have won. He has said 2x that the on line poll voters are drunk on vodka because he disagrees with the results.
He also refused to give the results of the CBS poll of undecideds (because he didn't like it). He does mention the ABC poll, but not the Gop skew of it.
Not too many "lies" from Mr. Cheney. You guys are suffering from group think and conspiracy-theory syndrome. He may have exaggerated about not meeting Mr. Edwards, but other than hyperbole about "Haliburton" and a bunch of malarky about "lying" about WMD...what do you have but the echos of your own groupthink. Wake up people,you are way off base. The liberal media, powerful though it is, can only help you on this hate mongering so much.
I agree, that global test idea of Kerry's is dumb.
no, if you don't realize that we need global cooperation to win the "wa on terra" you are dumb.
and edwards made this point very clearly, they won't follow if they think the US is led by lying war criminal bastards, which at present it is.
nov. 2nd, bitches.
Video just shown on CNN!!!
That was the zinger all the conservative pundits were talking about on their blogs...
Important to fit this into the "fantasy world" storyline..
Cheney made some condescending accusations about edwards not being there for votes. Who votes for cheney when he is campaigning.
Cheney made some empty accusations with a hearty self-righteous tone. Cheney is a faker and a liar and thinks he can get away with it.
Reminds me of when I saw Barbara bush tell people not to feel that they are entitled. ( i guess like she is)
The liberal media, powerful though it is, can only help you on this hate mongering so much.
lee | Email | Homepage | 10.06.04 - 1:00 am | #
what are you fuck'n joking, around here we call it the SCLM. there has not been a liberal media since Reagan ended the fairness doctrine. get a fuck'n clue. the media is owned, bought and paid for by huge media conglomerates, i suspect you know that. go watch your buddy murdoch's FOX news, and STFU
From The Minor Footnote Department...
"Congressman Wamp, Senator Edwards, friends from across America, and distinguished visitors to our country..."
Politeness mavens will note that the proper order of introduction proceeds as follows (truncated):
Preznit
...lots of other beings, including Supremes and Cabinet Dwellers...
President pro Tempore of the Senate
Members of the Senate
Governors of States
Former Vice Presidents
Members of the House of Representatives
Lesser Gods and Bottom Feeders
Point...
Veep Crashcart insulted the Honorable Senator Edwards by mentioning Congresscritter Wamp first. Surely a man (sic) of his high moral bearing remembers his every rude (yet strangely satisfying) moment. Hence, his saying he has never met the Senator is a known lie as opposed to a senior moment. QED
Move along,
Fritz
From The Minor Footnote Department...
"Congressman Wamp, Senator Edwards, friends from across America, and distinguished visitors to our country..."
Politeness mavens will note that the proper order of introduction proceeds as follows (truncated):
Preznit
...lots of other beings, including Supremes and Cabinet Dwellers...
President pro Tempore of the Senate
Members of the Senate
Governors of States
Former Vice Presidents
Members of the House of Representatives
Lesser Gods and Bottom Feeders
Point...
Veep Crashcart insulted the Honorable Senator Edwards by mentioning Congresscritter Wamp first. Surely a man (sic) of his high moral bearing remembers his every rude (yet strangely satisfying) moment. Hence, his saying he has never met the Senator is a known lie as opposed to a senior moment. QED
Move along,
Fritz
Sorry to linkwhore, but new t-shirts from tonight's debate:
http://lennonreport.blogspot.com
Why were Dick Cheney's hands shaking during the debate?
John Gillnitz,
i agree, but i still find it rather disturbing. where is our preznit? we need a president who can lead.
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned already, but...
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/
Polit...0041006_23.html
ahahaha foxnews makes a link to factcheck.com without even checking it out. it's about halfway down the page.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/
0,2...,134573,00.html
Cheney said in the debate that Iraq was the most likely place where WMD and the Terrorist would come together. Iraq had neither WMD or Terrorist before the war. How does this count as a valid answer? It's the same nonsense. It's a blundering foul. Who would ave the nerve to declare this fool the winner of this debate.
Not too many "lies" from Mr. Cheney. You guys are suffering from group think and conspiracy-theory syndrome. He may have exaggerated about not meeting Mr. Edwards, but other than hyperbole about "Haliburton" and a bunch of malarky about "lying" about WMD...what do you have but the echos of your own groupthink. Wake up people,you are way off base. The liberal media, powerful though it is, can only help you on this hate mongering so much.
lee
Fuck you prick.
How's that for hatemongering?
Hahahaha...
Cheney told the zillions of viewers to go to 'factcheck.com' to get the facts as he saw them.
He meant to say 'factcheck.org'
Factcheck.com redirects to...
GeorgeSoros.com
Hahahahaha...
Ooops!
Last week, Scarborough said a 1000 times, people will make up their mind about the debate the next few days over the water cooler. He hasn't said it once tonight. He's all "Cheney won & anyone who disagrees with me is drunk & stupid!"
Indeed, the media was very tepid last week "Oh we don't want to declare a winner, that's for the people to decide." Tonight, they've dropped their concerns. "Cheney won America. We decide. If you disagree with us, you're wrong."
BTW: Barnicle it is your job to point out when politicians lie. Re: your question "Is Dick Cheney lying (about Iraq) or not? " If you don't know the answer to this, you are an idiot.
Cheney made a big Ass mistake saying factcheck.com when it should of been factcheck.org.
meme | Email | Homepage | 10.06.04 - 12:55 am | #
best laugh i've had all day.
didn't even read it, the headline says it all.
This is why I love the Internet.
Down with gravelly grimacing Dick!
As for Iraqi deaths I'd want Kerry to remind people that Baghdad Bush (and Cheney) have purposefully not recorded deaths of Iraqis or US Contractors so far. As well as skewing the reporting of deaths by nipicking on what qualifies as a KIA. *blech*
Badghdad Bush lies about the numbers about the costs of war, both human and financial.
Baghdad Bush lies about who is a member of the coalition of the willing in Iraq.
Baghdad Bush lies about the costs of his health care reform.
Baghdad Bush lies about environmental damage to humans as a result of his policies.
In essence Lee... you may be blinded by having your head stuck up Scarborough's ass, but the rest of the world clearly sees that Baghdad Bush lies.
Well, Daisy, when you only have 90 seconds to respond to the previous two solid minutes of outright lies, you gotta pick your targets, no?
i agree, but i still find it rather disturbing. where is our preznit? we need a president who can lead.
charley 10.06.04 - 1:13 am | #
I remember Bush going AWOL on 9/11 really freaked me out. "Like a chicken with his head cut off," is how that is described in TX. I started wondering what he knew then thinking if he is hiding: O shit. Took a couple of days to realize he was just a fraidy cat.
Informal observation: Cheney is really turning off female voters in relation to Edwards.
Agreed: That statement was the defining moment of the debate.
The rah-rah Cheney groupthink phenomenon on MSNBC seems to be unravelling somewhat as they begin to realize that almost everything Cheney said was a lie.
Holy shit that George Soros factcheck.com thing is the best thing I've seen in a LONG time!
I'm dying laughing here!
This debate didn't have the fireworks of Bush/Kerry 1. Maybe Cheney can claim victory by turning it into Meet the Press. Edwards was no Dan Quayle, he showed substance. Edwards seemed to get a little nervous near the end, but didn't waver. The nervousness kind of sucked the energy from some of his statements. I also think the prize for winning the VP debate is little more than a matching dinnerware set. Edwards kept the fire burning for Bush/Kerry 2. Cheney showed who is really running things. It's too bad he is believing his own lies. Yes, I think people looked at him and could tell he was out of touch.
Darth Cheney is that grumpy old guy nobody likes talking to. He rambles in a monotone voice that appeals to nobody.
BTW
His microphone was placed on the middle of his tie. I run my TV sound through my stereo system. All night as Cheney squirmed around, his microphone was rubbing against his clothing, and as his head cocked up and down he went from muffled to clear. Edwards had his mic clipped up near his neck. he was loud and clear all night. Great moment when Edwards ripped the paper at 70 db! Godzilla!
I give Edwards the edge on telling the truth, but the winner going to boredom.
TONIGHT CHENEY UTTERED THIS LIE. WHY LOOK AT THE MEET THE PRESS TAPE WHEN YOU NEED LOOK NO FURTHER THAT THE DEBATE
Quote "...he had an established relationship with Al Qaida. Specifically, look at George Tenet, the CIA director's testimony before the Committee on Foreign Relations two years ago when he talked about a 10-year relationship.
The effort that we've mounted with respect to Iraq focused specifically on the possibility that this was the most likely nexus between the terrorists and weapons of mass destruction.
The biggest threat we faced today is the possibility of terrorists smuggling a nuclear weapon or a biological agent into one of our own cities and threatening the lives of hundreds of thousands of Americans.
What we did in Iraq was exactly the right thing to do. If I had it to recommend all over again, I would recommend exactly the same course of action. The world is far safer today because Saddam Hussein is in jail, his government is no longer in power. And we did exactly the right thing."
and the winner is...Edwards. CBS news real poll
http://tinyurl.com/6jtoe
he scored BIG with the undecided voters
Whoopsie.
Yahoo! is carrying the story "Meeting Was Not First for Cheney, Edwards." I know a lot of people check out Yahoo!'s "Most Popular" list, so go over there and email that article so it moves up the list: http://tinyurl.com/5xuk5
Brian Williams on NBC's fact check segment said Edwards was wrong about calling the Halliburton contract 'no bid'. He said that in reality no other company was qualified for the job so the contract had to go to Halliburton.
He was a real DICK at thed end of the debate. Cheney couldn't muster the decency to thank Edwards for joining him in the debate.
A real no class fatass.
No other company was qualified?! No shit - this war was made for Haliburton! Sadly Cheney probably won't have to pay for the 1,000+ US dead, and the estimated 20,000+ Iraqi dead (as of August 31st only).
I can't wait to see this C-SPAN shot on a commercial... and I hope the DNC or KE campaign can get the clearance to use it! Boooooyaa to Atrios again!!
Later chimp-boy and cyborg!
I don't understand why Bush and Cheney didn't just pull the kiddie chair that Kerry and Edwards have been standing on for foreign policy out from under them. John Kerry's "let's go the the U.N" and "Summit! Summit! Summit!" attitude could easily be refuted by mentioning three little words: "Oil-For-Food."
The Pres and VP have been taking it on the chin about the "lack of allies" and all they have to do is say, "we couldn't get the entire security council to vote on anything, because they were all illegally milking the OFF program, and even kept sanctions on after the invasion to milk even more money out of the program for French and Russian primarily, and to a lesser extent German businesses. The left can have their Halliburton cries, how about exposing the entire U.N. organization as a profiteering group of nations that they are. No one at the U.N. cares about suffering or human rights, they are the true fat cats that liberals claim republicans are. But John Kerry will have summits and waddle back to the U.N. should he get elected.
I don't like half of what George Bush has done in his presidency, but I'm not stupid enough to let the U.N. have any larger of a role in "security" than they already do. They are the least trustworthy group on the planet, or at least a close second to the terrorists.
Robert D., the so called oil for food scandal was brought to the worlds attention by Ahmad Chalabi. He retained most of the so called evidence. It is not in the administrations interest to mention this crooks name or the fact that their favortism towards him is responsible for one of the greatest foreign policy blunders in our nations history.
It'd be cool if more were being made of Edwards' reply to Cheney's attack on his voting record. Voting against the Dept. of Education? An MLK holiday? Christmas?!? Pundits would prolly say it's not a real talking point because they happened so long ago, but clearly the majority of the American public is not aware of this (how many Americans even know their own senators' votes?) and the Dems could get real play out of making this an issue.
Watching the replay of the debate. The first 20 minutes is a draw. Both sides were exceptional. The second 20 minutes goes to Edwards. This is where the Halliburton issue came up......
I wish Edwards had remembered that meeting and said something like
"Dick, we were together at a prayer breakfast, and you thanked me for coming. That meant something to me, I wish it had meant something to you"
It is possible to be in the same room with someone and even have them pass behind you without having MET them. It is also possible to shake hands with someone at a prayer-breakfast (not in the senate) and still not have met the person. It's a very nuanced situation.
bwahahahaha.
Edwards is the inspiration for Milhouse.
Robert D., the so called oil for food scandal was brought to the worlds attention by Ahmad Chalabi. He retained most of the so called evidence. It is not in the administrations interest to mention this crooks name or the fact that their favortism towards him is responsible for one of the greatest foreign policy blunders in our nations history.
not really, the entire brunt of the blame on this one would rest with the countries like France, Russia, and Germany, and Kofi Annan. The only reason i can see that Bush can't effectively use this to show Kerry's "U.N. involvement" arguments as the sham they are is because the press won't cover it.
Strangely one of the biggest scams that kept Iraqi's starving while lining the pockets of european businesses can't even make it to the front page of any newspapers? I guess they'll wait till after the election so they don't take the thunder out of Kerry's arguments. If they show the U.N. as being even more morally corrupt than most people see them, then Kerry's alternative for Iraq loses what little bit of appeal it does have.
Instead of stubbornly sticking with the "flip-flop" strategy that bombed in the first Kerry-Bush debate, Dick consistently deployed the term "consistency." While Senator Edwards used it first, Dick threw it back at him. Again. And again. And again. And again (and Dick's probably somewhere RIGHT NOW still saying it).
"It's a consistent pattern over time of always being on the wrong side of defense issues."
"You're not credible on Iraq because of the enormous inconsistencies that John Kerry and you have cited time after time after time during the course of the campaign. Whatever the political pressures of the moment requires, that's where you're at. But you've not been consistent, and there's no indication at all that John Kerry has the conviction to successfully carry through on the war on terror."
Continued at: Cons From A Neocon
I'm afraid a Cheney claim that he was referring only to seeing (or not seeing) Edwards in congressional chambers will stand up. Just sayin'.
I don't expect it to be long before someone digs up CSPAN archive footage showing them in the chambers together, too.
I don't understand why Bush and Cheney didn't just pull the kiddie chair that Kerry and Edwards have been standing on for foreign policy out from under them. John Kerry's "let's go the the U.N" and "Summit! Summit! Summit!" attitude could easily be refuted by mentioning three little words: "Oil-For-Food."
The problem with the "Oil For Food" charge is that Ahmed Chalabi has (or claims to, he didn't want to let anyone else see it) all the evidence, so its a point that it far from clearcut, whereas bringing up such irregularities inevitably brings up far better documented irregularities in the US administration both of funds allocated for Iraqi reconstruction, and more significantly Iraqi assets the US occupation authority was allowed to manage for Iraqi reconstruction, where the evidence is not held by a repeatedly discredited convicted criminal who the administration relied on as a principal source of intelligence leading up to the war.
Kerry's stances in the debate via Prager:
On staying in Iraq:
"I'm not talking about leaving. I'm talking about winning."
"Yes, we have to be steadfast and resolved, and I am. And I will succeed for those troops, now that we're there. We have to succeed. We can't leave a failed Iraq."
On leaving Iraq:
"And our goal in my administration would be to get all of the troops out of there ..."
"I believe that when you know something's going wrong, you make it right. That's what I learned in Vietnam."
What was it that John Kerry "learned in Vietnam?" To leave a war he regarded as a mistake.
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
On America acting alone:
"I'll never give a veto to any country over our security."
On America acting only with world support or within an alliance:
"But if and when you do it (act alone), Jim, you have to do it in a way that passes the test, that passes the global test ..."
And what if acting alone does not pass "the global test"? Then presumably we won't act alone. Kerry made references to the need to be in Iraq in alliance with other nations eight times.
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
On the war being a mistake:
"This president has made, I regret to say, a colossal error of judgment."
"The president made a mistake in invading Iraq."
"The war is a mistake."
On the war being important enough to have to win:
"I believe that we have to win this. The president and I have always agreed on that."
After hearing Kerry call the war a mistake, the moderator Jim Lehrer asked the logical question: "Are Americans now dying in Iraq for a mistake?
John Kerry's answer: "No, and they don't have to, providing we have the leadership that I'm offering."
Now what does that response, arguably the most important thing the senator said in the debate, mean? Does it mean that American soldiers won't die for what John Kerry continually labels a mistake because he will prosecute the war more effectively? Or does it mean that Americans won't die for this mistaken war because he will leave Iraq and then there will be no mistake to die for?
The answer, again, is that it can mean either.
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
I believe that this debate can lead to only one conclusion: Either John Kerry is a man of few principles who will say almost anything on the most vital issues of life and death in order to get elected; or he is personally so confused on this issue that he will repeatedly make self-contradictory statements.
There is no other explanation for this unassailable fact: John Kerry won the debate because he sounded better; and he sounded better in large measure because he got away with saying whatever any voter wanted to hear.
That is one reason Presid
Strangely one of the biggest scams that kept Iraqi's starving while lining the pockets of european businesses can't even make it to the front page of any newspapers?
Actually, it did make it to front pages for a while when the story first broke. Once it became clear that Chalabi wasn't going to let anyone see the "evidence" except to serve his own political ends, it quickly became a non-story in most of the media. Strange, that.
It got cut off so here's the link if you guys surprise me and are open minded.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/
new...RTICLE_ID=40764
Kerry now leads in New Mexico, too!
Bush Electoral Vote count is now 268, not enough to win.
then Kerry's alternative for Iraq loses what little bit of appeal it does have.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 10.06.04 - 1:51 am | #
there is no alternative for iraq it's fuck'n lost. it should never have been begun, (in a round about way i think edwards made this point)war crimes, abu ghraib, george bush's infamous torture, policy memo's.
anyway, were dealing with politicians and terrorists here, there is only so much you can hope for.
i sure hope the next president is john kerry.
Great photograph. I think a homerun will be a photograph of Edwards accompanying Elizabeth Dole when she was sworn in to her position. I'm sure there will be several photographs that include Cheney.
I shall now channel the Freeper that inhabits the deep dark depths of my soul.
Ommmmmmmm......ommmmmm........
Fake! You can see Photoshopping around the edges! It was a lookalike! That's not Cheney! There is no senator named Elizabeth Dole!
dennis prager, not that open minded.
dennis prager? not that open minded.
Dick thinks Iraqi security forces should count amongst coalition casualties?
He should go tell it to the Pentagon. They don't seem to agree with the Creepy Veepy's mock indignation at Edwards' failure to add Iraqi security forces dead to the coalition casualty total.
http://icasualties.org/oif/
Actually if you've ever listened to Dennis Prager, he is very open minded and an ex-liberal himself. He quit being part of the left, when they left behind religion and morals.
He quit being part of the left, when they left behind religion and morals.
I think they actually believe this crap.
I used to be a conservative, I changed when they left behind anyone they didn't need, like their wives and children.
You know what the real problem with this current crop of "conservatives" is?
When they look in the mirror they think they're seeing a liberal.
I'd be against that, too.
This is the first look most Americans have of John Edwards. They will be impressed.
I think they actually believe this crap.
It's not crap, it's more recently (20 years) that the left has become the champion of abortion on demand and even more recently they've attacked all religion in a public setting. That was the deciding factor for Prager who is a devout Jew. The left wasn't always so anti-religion, so it was easier for people who had strong religious convictions to justify their status as a Democrat. Now if you have strong convictions, it would be a lot harder to be a member of the Democratic party in terms of social issues.
50 percent? What drug is Cheney on?
Robert D. , no one gives a shit about Dennis Prager. Just because somebody is born with a radio voice doesn't give their opinions validity. Prager has made a livelihood out of the same kind of cult of celebrity that he criticizes. He is a blowhard and a hypocrite. I pity you and your source.
Cheney's closing comments are pathetic.
Robert D. obviously doesn't live in Massachusetts where the Democratic machine is heavily controlled by those with STRONG religious faith. *geesh*
And I know that the InstaParrot dragged up the "oil-for-food" nonsense again by pointing to a UK Murdoch-rag the other day. It's red-meat playing to the Freeper hate of the George HW Bush's internationalism. But it is funny that a Murdoch rag gets special secrets passed to it and Paul Volcker and his commission can't get their hands on Chalabi's super-incriminating evidence. Just another whinger- whisper- campaign.
And not even as interesting as Bush paying for an illegal abortion prior to Roe v. Wade. Guess that set the tone for his ideas on "protection" and planning ahead to prevent "catastrophic successes".
It's not crap,
Yes, it is.
it's more recently (20 years) that the left has become the champion of abortion on demand
No, actually, its not. Its only within the last twenty years that the Democratic Party has, as a result of the right wing finishing moving to the Republican Party, become even a consistently center-left party, but the left -- not the same as the Democratic Party -- has championed strong abortion rights since before Roe.
and even more recently they've attacked all religion in a public setting.
The faction of "the left" that is anti-religion has been anti-religion since approximately the French Revolution from which we get the idea of the "left" and "right" politically, which, last I checked, was considerably more than 20 years ago.
But its hardly a dominant faction in the modern American left. What is opposed strongly and consistently by the left -- and has been consistently by the left for quite some time -- is government entanglement with religion, which is quite proper to oppose.
I wish Edwards had remembered that meeting and said something like
"Dick, we were together at a prayer breakfast, and you thanked me for coming. That meant something to me, I wish it had meant something to you"
So if I understand this right, Edwards will be going around with a photo and touting that he actually met with Cheney back in Jan 2001, reinforcing Cheney's point that he has been a "no-show" in the Senate since then??
We're losing in this online poll folks !
Show your strength :
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6092749/
Now if you have strong convictions, it would be a lot harder to be a member of the Democratic party in terms of social issues.
Robert D.
What absolute bullshit. The percentage of religious to nonreligious is the same across party lines. The only difference is that Republicans are less likely to practive what they preach when it comes to the Ten Commandments. And I know plenty of utterly atheistic right-wingers. Plenty.
i said to my wife how rude cheney was to not thank john an how that proved he was not from the south even though he lived in texas for years up to when he picked himself to run with bush a fellow texas citizen an that breaks the consitutions law against two people from the same state running for president an vice president so real quick cheney moves back to wis. but his tax forms was sent to texas they started by breaking the consitution an they have not stoped
When he says 'never met before', he means never met other than a quick hello and a handshake.
It's a nuanced approach, something the Kerry fans should be used to by now.
It's bit like saying you were in Cambodia in Christmas when you weren't or suggesting you volunteered for Vietnam when you admitted you didn't want to get involved in it. Nuanced, like saying the 8 vets paid for by the DNC back me up and those 250 over there saying I'm a liar don't know what they talk about, or being the richest guy to run for president while claiming to be for the common man.
Something like that anyway. It can give the Dems something to think about while they mop up Edwards bloodied corpse from the debate stage.
My state of Oregon was in the Guardian today in an article on Bush's "Puritanism", as they call it.
http://tinyurl.com/3qo9u
Please note each time Cheney said "it speaks for itself" any statement before the comment was a fraud spun confection;his next comment a mendacity on stilts.
I actually wasn't impressed by Edwards. His tone was consistently the same whether he was talking about a real serious issue or a trivial one. You would think he would , as a trial lawyer, know how to not appear lightweight and boring. But this is not shocking to me. I am one of the few who felt he was a weak choice in the primaries. I ranked #4 below Dean, Kerry, and Clark. As a speaker, I ranked him below Dean, Clark , and Sharpton.
I believe Cheney lost the debate. his lies were too obvious. Too bad the media is spinning it otherwise. But, all the same, Edwards missed some opportunities. He should have pointed out Cheney's reliance on lawyers increasing expenses in teh government while he bashed trial lawyers. He should have taken the Mandela comment and use it to convey the following message "IF YOU ARE THE SAME PERSON WHO THOUGHT THE ANC WERE TERRORISTS, HOW IS THE PUBLIC SUPPOSED TO TRUST YOU NOW WHEN IT COMES TO PRIORTIZING WHICH GROUP OR COUNTRY IS OUR BIGGEST TERRORISTIC THREAT?"
Remember how the repubs hammered Gore over exaggerations and mis-statements?
THE DEMS NEED TO HAMMER CHENEY OVER THESE BALD FACED LIES.
"I NEVER MET SENATOR EDWARDS BEFORE TONIGHT"
"I NEVER SAID THERE WERE TIES BETWEEN SADDAM AND 911"
How could he think he could get away with them???????????
How can anyone believe this man.
DG - only thing Democrats are thinking about now is which table cloth and dinner service design they're buying for the White House.
But feel free to talk to yourself some more about how're you're good enough and strong enough and people love you... despite what everyone says about you behind your back.
This meeting was told to Chris Matthews long before poste here....and it does not change the fact that Edwards is not around in the Senate.
The point was each Tuesday Cheney is the Ant, working hard....and Edwards is the Grasshopper not attending, and without a care in the world
Wow, I thought Cheney's barb about never meeting Edwards was really his best moment of the evening. Almost a 'There you go again' moment. Too bad it was a lie. But then again, just about every good line from the Bush gang turns out to be a lie, anyway.
Yeah, but this is going to backfire on the dems! Kerry and the Breck Girl haven't exactly been Senators on the ball. Missing meetings, missing votes...will all be fair game. It is especially galling to people that they rush back to vote when something like partial birth abortion comes up though. For shame you libs...Cheney's got ya right where he wants ya! ha ha ha
Hehehehehehe......listenin' to y'all cryin' in yer beer over the ass-whoopin' little Johnnie had to take on his cute little butoocks tonight with his drawers down is hilarious.
What were all you dopeheads thinkin' when you considered for one moment that Cheney wouldn't win tonight. You folks need to put down your crack pipes and re-tune your bongs.
Yer commie commando and his little sidekick, the bottom-feeding trial whoreyer, are not only toast, but will go down in history as the two dumbest and most shallow, empty-headed empty suits to ever run for the White House.
ROFLMBO!!!!
HEHEHEHEHEHEHE...........
I picture Cheney as a dung beetle hard at work rolling his ball of crap.
Hey Atrios and friends!
I just found video for a *SECOND* time when Cheney and Edwards met in January 2003. They apparently even shook hands!
The video and full details are on my weblog at http://insomnia.livejournal.com
I expect to have screenshots from the video up shortly...
I think there is a huge disparity between the talking heads and the public about who won the debate because the public is starting to get that Cheney is a liar and a really serious and malicious one at that.
And I don't think it's so much the one about meeting Edwards. That was just the setup line for the punchline that Edwards was never in the Senate, although, not surprisingly, the punchline to the joke is a lie too.
The lie that people get is the lie that Cheney claimed he never tried to connect Saddam and 9-11. Anyone who has paid any attention at all the past 3 years knows this is such an unbelievable, egregious, bald-faced lie. It's why we went to war and it's really the only reason that matters for going to war. Last night Cheney publicly admitted there was no reason, really no reason at all, to go to war. Not only that, what Cheney said about Saddam/9-11 last night is exactly opposite of what Bush claimed in the first debate.
All that aside, I was kind of nonplussed by Edwards. Turned out, it really was a bit of a wimpy performance for the mighty trial lawyer. One can only hope that he was a bit off his game. Didn't anyone in his camp tell him Cheney would lie his ass off about everything?
Although that points to another huge distinction between the tickets: John Kerry is clearly the top of the ticket for his party and George Bush clearly is not.
LOL!
MAN, did Cheney mop the floor up with that smug little shit Edwards! For a millionaire ambulance-chaser, Edwards really sucked tonight, didn't he? Kerry sure F'd up by not picking someone with some credentials for VP - but it doesn't matter, since he'll be returning to Massachusetts as its "junior senator" on November 3rd, anyway!
Did I mention that Edwards sucked???
LOL!
Sigh. Well, I went to all the polls that were still open this early in the morning and did my duty--even though it meant "visiting" some evil places I dare to tread (e.g. Faux & CNnnnnnn)
Since I never go there otherwise, can someone tell me why Faux has the box headline "Style versus Substance" over a picture of Kerry AND Bush? Are they implying that one has style while the other has substance? Isn't it pretty apparent that Kerry has both while Bush has neither?
something tells me we WONT see that photo on drudge or rush or fox.
Anyone?
If we had any decency left at all, that happy picture of Cheney rubbing elbows with Edwards at the National Prayer Breakfast would be above the fold, front page of every major daily this morning along with the headline "Cheney claims he never met Edwards before debate" followed by a rhetorical question lede asking "What else did he lie about?"
The trolls are getting more and more desperate as they attempt to paper over the tremendous ass kicking of pathetic lying sack of shit that is Dick "Fuck You" Cheney.
You fascist fucks are going down.
Or maybe, a better headline, "CHENEY--LIAR OR SENILE?"
I was thinking that the reason why repubs get killed on these online polls. These are the same people that think Saddam attacked us. Many of them could not send an e-mail to save their life, let alone take an online poll. Just as W paid a price for being so insulated, so do the repubs who never read anything but Coulter. What are your thought?
two dumbest and most shallow, empty-headed empty suits to ever run for the White House
P-O-T-A-T-O-E
There were a few missed opportunities, only one of which was major. When confronted with his own callowness, Edwards needed to respond that he has the same amount of political experience that Bush had when he became president, only his was as a US Senator and Bush's was in a figurehead position in a state where the governor doesn't count for (and rarely amounts to) much. This would have totally demolished this line of argument, which was the only point Cheney had to make all night long. He also might have mentioned how long Cheney was in Congress without ever accomplishing a damn thing - the list of things he voted for was pretty damning however.
The second was what seemed like an innocent enough lie on Cheney's part, compared to his whoppers - when he talked about how Bush chose him as VP. But Bush didn't choose him - he chose himself! What kind of "President" outsources his first important job so publicly to a single surrogate, and then accepts that man's nomination of himself? This also puts the lie to his claim that he had no political ambitions for himself - obviously he did or he would not have installed himself as ex officio President.
However, I think that we tend to underestimate Edwards's performance because we know a lot of things about Cheney that the average TV consumer does not - the aforementioned votes in Congress, for example. (It would be nice if Edwards could have said as an aside, "you voted to ban plastic weapons that terrorists could take on planes - I'd love to hear your explanation for THAT".) But Edwards got in some very potent licks all the same - and he didn't kept returning to Cheney's lies and calling him out on them. Cheney could only grumble and grouse like a cranky old man when he was repudiated.
excuse me, I meant to say "he DID keep returning to Cheney's lies and calling him out on them"
I'm afraid a Cheney claim that he was referring only to seeing (or not seeing) Edwards in congressional chambers will stand up. Just sayin'
Then it makes no sense for him to have said that the first time he'd met Edwards was on the stage that night. He'd have said, "And I've yet to see you in chambers."
The funny thing is that this was a practiced line and you'd think someone would have fact checked it before they used it.
I see some of you are clearly still drunk from your Tuesday night frat party - but your innane, baseless rants drive home how desperate the RIGHT is now that your Uncle Dick only mustered a tie at best with the "young" Edwards. Baha!
Missing meetings, missing votes...will all be fair game.
Missing National Guard duty?
Missing flight physicals?
Missing annual White House physical?
It's all fair game? Promise?
Ah, the smell of troll fear in the morning! Well, we all know what it smells like, don't we?
I suspect Mr Cheney's "lie" about not meeting Mr Edwards was more about Mr Cheney's arrogance, his disdain for the opposition, generally being "out-of-touch" with the real world.
Brian Williams on NBC's fact check segment said Edwards was wrong about calling the Halliburton contract 'no bid'. He said that in reality no other company was qualified for the job so the contract had to go to Halliburton.
That's how no-bid contracts are structured! What a load of crap. If you want your hand-picked company to get the contract, you write it so that only they meet the requirements. This is done all the time, which is why so many beltway bandits scoop up former military guys and make them rich - they know how to play the game.
Example of the kind of corruption going on there now: the company chosen to provide wireless infrastructure in Iraq - can't recall who right now - had NEVER done it before. As David Stockman once said, the hogs are really feeding.
the lead of the NY Daily News is good!
Dems on attack - GOP in trouble
John Edwards was puppy-dog happy to be debating last night. Dick Cheney was the old hound who, only because he had to, agreed to show up and fetch some answers.
MAN, did Cheney mop the floor up with that smug little shit Edwards!
Uhhhh, no he didn't. Cheney looked and sounded grumpy and petulant, got called on a bunch of lies, got away with a few, got lost a few times, and generally made an ass of himself. I know how desperate you all are for a win, but this wasn't it. Edwards gave much better than he got and it was Cheney who was often at a loss for words, other than to grumble something stupid. But Republicans, used to winning through cheating, also consider anything other than total annihilation a win so I understand why you might think this.
You forget that while you will forgive Cheney for his wanting Iran sanctions lifted and his sleazy dealings with Halliburton and his lies about Al Qaeda that led us into the war, the typical American voter will not. And for many of them these things came as a revelation.
Li'l Russ apparently just added a third prior meeting between Cheney and Edwards on Meet the Press.
This is the Gore/Lee Witt story of 2004.
On MTP? Nice. Tweety is such an ass, "it's still a good line". A lie is a lie asshat.
OT, but along with the new Cheney=Liar, another meme, Bush=Lazy, won't go away. I'll post excerpts here because it's WaPo and requires registration:
The 'Hard Work' Issue Isn't Taking a Holiday
By Dana Milbank
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, October 5, 2004; Page A05
HAMPTON, N.H., Oct. 4 -- The insinuation by the Democratic nominee is subtle but unmistakable: George W. Bush, the president of the United States, is lazy.
Outside Youngstown, Ohio, on Sunday, John F. Kerry mocked Bush for attesting in Thursday's presidential debate -- 22 times -- that his administration is engaged in "hard work." "I welcome hard work," Kerry said. "I like hard work. I think hard work is a good thing."
Hours later in Cleveland, former congressman Louis Stokes (D-Ohio) warmed up a crowd for Kerry by deriding what he called Bush's aversion to "hard work."
(cont...)
In New Hampshire on Monday, Kerry ridiculed Bush for having "photos taken reading books to kids" but not doing the more difficult work of improving education. He also took a shot at Vice President Cheney, who went fishing Monday. "If he goes with the same intelligence we went to Iraq with, he's going to have a bad day," Kerry said.
Never mind that Bush maintains a more hectic campaign rhythm than his challenger. The Kerry campaign is trying to capitalize on Bush's obsession during the debate with saying how difficult his job is. "Saturday Night Live," which gave Al Gore a world of hurt in 2000 by lampooning his sighs during a debate, opened its new season with a skit in which a Bush impersonator lamented: "Frankly, I don't know why my opponent wants this job, because it's hard!"
"So your plan is to crush terrorism by coming in on Saturdays?" asked the character playing moderator Jim Lehrer.
The Bush character replied, with reluctance: "If that's what it takes."
Of course, "fair and balanced" Dana Milbank has to find some way to make Kerry seem lazy, too, but it doesn't matter. Bush was the one whining about it all during the debate.
If anyone's up for another debate poll, www.wtopnews.com has one. They are the big news radio of DC area. Easy to take, right, first link in the middle.
"Cheney Lied"
In other news: "Water is Wet"
Wonder if the media whores will HAMMER the fat fuck for lying about this?!! Like they did with Gore in his first debate with the Chimp four years ago for "lying" about his trip with Witt and the girl in FL?
Naaaaaaah...
When he says 'never met before', he means never met other than a quick hello and a handshake
Sounds like the definition of a "meet and greet" to me.
a further word on my previous post...
I guess all those people attending rallies who got to shake Cheney's hand didn't meet him either. I don't know if they will appreciate the nuance either.
Tom Shales from WaPo in an article at WSJ:
Cheney told Edwards, 'The first time I ever met you was when you walked on this stage tonight.' Now there was a zinger likely to stay zung. Edwards had no effective comeback.
Perhaps because Edwards knew that wasn't true?
From the same article, Adam Nagourney:
"Indeed, if Mr. Cheney came into the debate seeking to reverse the slippage the Republicans have witnessed since Mr. Bush's answers and demeanor Thursday night distressed many supporters, Mr. Edwards succeeded in blocking him for much of the night, although certainly not all. Instead, viewers watched two stylistically different but clearly accomplished politicians in an intense and often grim debate, and loyalists of both parties can be forgiven for thinking that the No. 2 candidates were more slashing debaters than Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush."
OH, my, Dick couldn't be senile, could he? They wouldn't let someone senile into the White House, would they?
Love, Ron R.
IMO the debate is between Kerry & Cheney. It seems obvious that Bush is merely a frontman, somebody who doesn't have heart problems.
OT-
Is Haloscan especially odd this morning?
Yep. Cheney muffed that one. But since Edwards didn't deny the charge, he must have forgotten the meeting too. Edwards isn't an old, memory-addled geezer, so what's his excuse?
Obviously, Cheney meant that he had not seen "Senator missing" on the senate floor, doing his job. Last time I checked, Senators were elected to vote on bills.
What ever happened to not getting paid if you don't show up, and do your job? Neither of these rich white men need their salary.
The only vote that either Senators Kerry or Edwards cast was a NO vote on the Laci-Conner bill. Shows what they feel is important. Both of these guys are rich, and have the money to fly back to washington, whenever they were supposed to vote. Bunch of losers
Just sent this to CNN:
After watching the Vice-Presidential debate, I was struck by the statement that the Vice President made in regard to having never met Senator Edwards prior to their debate. There is quite a bit of evidence coming out that contradicts that.
My question is, will CNN and other media outlets take Cheney to task for thsi mis-representation in the same manner they did four years ago with Gore in his first debate with then Governor Bush? My money says that you won't.
Of course, the plus side to this is it will once and for all put to bed that "liberal media" label.
Cheney also lied about trying to connect Saddam to 9/11.
I think that particular lie is a little more important.
hmm. I thought "you know, if that's true, that's pretty devastating."
but then I thought "you know, there are only a hundred guys in the Senate. And practically all of them are millionaires. What are the odds?"
I was certainly expecting someone to run that line this morning, because I thought it was one of the high points of the debate for Cheney.
But no one did.
Hmmmm.
Even FOX is now carrying the story about Cheney "never" meeting Edwards. They claim this is in fact their fourth encounter.
.
Cheney lied about EVERYTHING:
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/.../
100704Z.shtml#
I used to think that the Bush Administration slogan would be:
'Fear is our only product.'*
But now I see that they also produce lies.
*Another variation on this theme: 'We don't make terrorism less likely, we just make you more scared of it.'
Does someone need a refresher on how legislatures work and vote?
Geeze, the GOP has to rely on people so disenfranchised they don't know how their own government works.
We already eviscerated this talking point on Kerry (jr. senator ... to TED KENNEDY!), and now the dumb ass trolls are here spinning Cheney's bold-faced lies with nothing more than their own ignorance.
At that's the best the right can do.
.
Cheney also lied about trying to connect Saddam to 9/11.
I think that particular lie is a little more important.
But this is where Cheney's real skill at prevarication comes out.
I remember listening to him on Faux or CNN or one of those talking head channels a couple of years ago while he was trying to convince his audience that Saddam was a clear and present immediate danger to the continental United States, and that it was critically important that we invade Iraq NOW NOW NOW.
He never came right out and said it. He implied it; he skirted around it; he said several things that could easily have been misinterpreted to mean it; he certainly expected the audience to believe it; and once he'd delivered the implication, he moved on to make other arguments based upon that premise.
But I don't remember him ever coming out and saying that in so many words.
As I've said before, there are professional liars in this administration, and there are amateurs.
Cheney is one of the pros.
ALl of you Republican robots who are trying to spin Cheney's lie about never meeting Edwards as allegedly meaning that he never met him on the Senate floor are completely and obviously full of shit. I smell desperation.
Cheney himself said that he had never met Edwards until tonight. When Cheney said that neither he nor Edwards were on the Senate floor. Case closed dumbfucks.
Edwards probably didn't want to get into it, LF. Just like Cheney didn't want to get into it about gay marriage.
For those of you out there old enough to remember The Band, I've been humming "Look Out Cleveland" to myself since yesterday. Maybe it can be the song of the day on the KE '04 press bus.
The lyrics:
Look out Cleveland, the storm is comin' through,
And it's runnin' right up on you-oo-oo
Look out Houston, they're be thunder on the hill,
Bye, bye baby [substitute Bush/Cheney] dontcha lie so still.
I feel something truly horrific is about to occur to this country. Something so awful, it would be impossible to describe. I can sense it about to happen.
But I don't remember him ever coming out and saying that in so many words.
He said on one episode of Meet the Press that a meeting between Mohammed Atta and an Iraqi official had been "pretty well confirmed." That seems like a fairly definitive statement to me, linking Iraq directly to 9/11.
Of course, shortly after the 9/11 commission concluded that he was full of shit, Cheney flagrantly lied to Gloria Borger about having said what he said, and she didn't call him on it.
Never met Edwards? Never said there was any connection to Iraq and 911? Never meant that a vote for Kerry means America will have an increased chance of terrorist attacks?
What was Cheney thinking. No one would fact check?
Anyone can justify their actions by bending and stretching the truth. As Cheney demonstrated last night, we have an administration not of resolve, but of alibis.
Where does the buck stop in the Bush White House? They say they are have strong resolve. But resolve for what? Resolve to cover their decisions, resolve to keep the GOP in power, resolve to serve the interests of big business, HMO's and insurance companies. Resolve to manipulate the media with their empty slogans.
When the subject of Ohio came up, I wished Edwards was going to say that Ohio has gone down hill dramatically in the last 4 years not only because of GOP controlled White House, Senate & Congress, but also because the GOP also controls the Ohio governor's office, State House and State Senate. Yet, they all deny accountability for contributing in any way to the erosion of opportunity for earning, education, and advancement among Ohio's citizenry.
This GOP runs on guns, gays, and god issues, because their record of service to the America and Ohio is so pitifully poor.
Kerry and Edwards promise a change that America and Americans sorely need. And, so do many of our states, especially Ohio.
Shows what they feel is important. Both of these guys are rich, and have the money to fly back to washington, whenever they were supposed to vote. Bunch of losers
Yeah, that's what you would do if you were a senator and the opposite party was turning the country into a fascist dictatorship, wouldn't you? You'd show up every day and dutifully cast your meaningless vote along with the rest of the minority, just so you would be on the record next time someone tried to run against you, so they wouldn't deprive you of your precious title and your special parking spot at Dulles Airport.
Instead, these guys are doing the best they can to unseat the crooked bastard responsible for the whole mess. They're trying to make a difference where it counts.
It really pisses you off that the Democratic Party had the unmitigated gall to run a candidate at all this year, doesn't it? Impudent swine. After Big Brother is reinstalled by the Supreme Court, we should line them all up and have them shot.
Except for the Good Democrats, the ones with perfect attendance records.
I feel something truly horrific is about to occur to this country. Something so awful, it would be impossible to describe. I can sense it about to happen.
Go have your meds checked, dude.
Seriously.
If you can't afford it, go to the local emergency room and tell them you're a suicide risk.
Bush is merely a frontman, somebody who doesn't have heart problems.
(cue the Tin Man song)
How many pounds of pancake makeup do you think they used on Cheney to keep his forehead from shining? That was the cakiest looking forehead I've ever seen.
Cheney also lied about trying to connect Saddam to 9/11.
I think that particular lie is a little more important.
Seraphiel
Oh, I agree, but as someone said, Cheney has always skirted around coming out and saying that outright. Just as the Bushitas alleged they never said that Saddam was an "imminent" threat, even thoughed they warned of mushroom clouds that were 45 minutes away.
Cheney said he had never met Edwards "before tonight"....words that can be shoved back down his throat where the lie came from.
What Tex said at 9:47 am.
That bs about the two Johns not showing up in the Senate can be easily turned on Bush. The two Johns haven't been at every Senate session because they're in the thick of a presidential campaign.
Why is is that the Republicans think it's okay for Bush to run around the country campaigning (when he's not on vacation) for most of the year, but it's not okay when two Democratic senators are doing the same thing?
Yes, the remark about never meeting Edwards was a petty little lie compared to the rest of Cheney's whoppers, but it provides an interesting insight into his character, and the Bush administration's entire culture of dishonesty. As you remember, they started lieing their very first day in office, with the 'Clinton trashed the White House' hoax. This is a similar kind of situation, why tell the truth when you can spice it up with a lie? Cheney is used to the press swallowing his lies without question, but this time it was such a blatant lie and there was 'irrefutable visual evidence' so that the press couldn't ignore it ... completely.
He spiced up the story about Edwards like he spiced up the stories about Al Qaeda being in cahoots with Saddam. Cheney lies as easy as breathing, and it's become second nature to him. He just can't stop because he's at a debate.
I bet Zell Miller has a perfect attendance record.
.
Is Dick Cheney a compulsive liar?
Falstaff
I would say "congenital liar"
The left wasn't always so anti-religion
I don't think it's that the left is "anti-religion". I think it's that people on the left side of the political spectrum tend to think for themselves as opposed to having their every thought fed to them by e-mails from the RNC.
--rewrite of last paragraph
He spiced up the story about never meeting Edwards just like he spiced up the stories about Al Qaeda being in cahoots with Saddam. Cheney lies as easy as breathing, and it's become second nature to him. He can't stop just because he's at a debate.
I think I may be an intuitive or some shit because last night in a dream I had, cities were on fire all over. I woke up abruptly from it.
Incog, I had a dream last night about an orange and silver 1985 Moto Guzzi Le Mans III with DelOrto carburettors, but I still ride a bicycle...
Dreams are usually just dreams man.
Except that one about Catwoman. That dream is real...!
.
I'm afraid a Cheney claim that he was referring only to seeing (or not seeing) Edwards in congressional chambers will stand up. Just sayin'
Then it makes no sense for him to have said that the first time he'd met Edwards was on the stage that night. He'd have said, "And I've yet to see you in chambers."
The funny thing is that this was a practiced line and you'd think someone would have fact checked it before they used it.
Hecate
You betcha Hecate! I'm sure they knew this was easily uncovered even.
So why would they do it? Smokescreen and as another astute person here mentioned (I hadn't thought of it) get the democrats all disttracted, only hammering home the point that EVEN if he met him before, his point is the same....he hasn't seen him in the Senate, hasn't seen him "enough".
This is tricky of them. While at face valure it deliberately makes Cheney a "liar"....except the common man is used to making this kind of mistake. It is a small thing, and not necessrily indicitive of mendacity.
Like the opposite of Hitler with "the big Lie" who said "people are used to small lies, so they recognize them. Tell an audacious lie and they won't believe you dared, so they believe it". This time they used "the small lie" in order TO BE UNCOVERED. It makes their pitiful little point "travel" and gives it sticking power. Get the other side all heated up, digging up meetings...the point is being made over and over by Cheney THROUGH the demos "I was THERE...where were you?"
"okay...fine, we met once at a thing. Still, I was THERE all the time, WHERE were you?"
Slick. The best thing is drop this and hammer on the important issues again. And as another said, point out how little experience Bush had and he was going for President!
How come anytime you're having a dream about getting it on with someone, right before you get off in it, you wake up?
Saletan in Slate:
In 2000, the Bush-Cheney campaign and the press roasted Al Gore for claiming in a debate that he had been with another public official (James Lee Witt, director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency) when in fact he hadn't. Now Cheney has committed the same offense in reverse.
I mean, we always [hear] about these dreams of getting it on with them but that's all. No getting off.
As much as it is fun to talk about the "Never met" lie, we need some traction on the 9/11 lie.
Not only does it demonstrate that Cheney plays hard and fast with the truth, it can help bring that 42% of Americans who believe Saddam attacked back to reality.
If that number gets to the low 30s before the election, Kerry wins in a landslide.
If that number gets to the low 30s before the election, Kerry wins in a landslide.
justmy2
I've been writing for almost a year that I know Kerry/Edwards will win. I never wrote they couldn't. I'm just saying that Bush & Co. will steal it, regardless.
Liberal media must have photoshopped this...
This is a real winning issue for us, if played correctly. When K/E surrogates mention this, they MUST follow with Edwards' voting record. He had one of the best attendance records (>95%) in the Senate before he began his run, and he's flown back for several important votes over the course of the campaign. The clip that shows Cheney lied is just our ticket to get in the door; once inside, we have to explode the "absentee senator" meme with more facts.
I love the way the trolls try to explain what Cheney "meant." Isn't he supposed to to be the smarter half of the Dynamic Duo - the one who can form whole sentences and doesn't have to have his gibberish translated for the rest of us? Isn't he supposed to be the one who means what he says and says what he means? If he says he never met Edwards before, that's what he meant to say. He meant to tell a petty, slighting lie and expected to get away with it. It's a sort of verbal chaff - meant to draw attention away from the bigger, more explosive lies.
Why, they are practically embracing each other!
To what war god was Mr. Dick praying to? Maybe he doesn't remember meeting him because Dick sends one of his body doubles to an event which requires 'praying' and 'submission to a higher power'. Kind of like when a vampire looks in a mirror i think.
Cheney Quayles himself!
"I knew John Edwards, Senator. John Edwards was a friend of mine, and you are not John Edwards."
Dick Cheney (10/05/04, loosely translated)
The "I've never met you before tonight" WAS a practiced line, and it was the MOST totally stupid thing he could have done. It really shows what a bubble Dick Cheney lives in as well, where he can just make a statement without any thought whatsoever that it might come back to haunt him.
He's had four years now of being able to do that -- of being able to say "I never said that" without the host saying "excuse me sir, but here is the tape of your saying exactly that..." And the apologists in the SCLM saying "what he really meant was..." whenever he starts biting people in his attack dog routine.
So why was this one so dumb? Pictures.
The media went after Gore on his claim to have debated someone he didn't, but that took words -- they had to talk and talk to prove the negative. All this one takes is a picture - no reading or talking nevessary.
Democrats complain that Bush shouldn't have to infer anything about Kerry's comments. "Kerry says what he means." Just because you post a picture of Cheney & Edwards within a foot of each other does not mean that they have met each other. Kerry is pictured with tons of protestors. Do you think he has met every one of them? If you could show me where Edwards has initiated legislation (you know, that is his job), then I would be more impressed. The point about Edwards (and Kerry for that matter) is their record does not show them to be leaders.
If you show up for work once in a blue moon and never put forth any true effort to do your job, should your boss promote you to CEO?
Don't bash me as being a Bush supporter either. I'm just stating a fact. I have yet to hear Kerry and Edwards discuss their "distinguished" record. What have they done for me? (don't tell me what Bush has done for me, because I already know)
"Just because you post a picture of Cheney & Edwards within a foot of each other does not mean that they have met each other."
Right they did not meet each other.
"Congressman Wamp, Senator Edwards, friends from across America, and distinguished visitors to our country from all over the world: Lynne and I are honored to be with you all this morning."
Dude can I do some financial planning for you?
Hey dims, it is factcheck.org not factcheck.com
Also, Cheney said there was a connection to Al Queda (which there was), not 9/11. He corrected Kedwards about 9/11. Stop foaming at the mouth and pay attention.
HILARIOUS, you libs...
NOTE: Edwards did not refute it! If the Vice President says he's never met you and you just sit there, you've kinda agreed.
REFUTE THIS:
Edwards missed 70% of his Intelligence Committee meetings.
Kerry missed 76%.
These blow-dried guys are only serious about ambition, and the facts bear that out. Refute away, silly libs!!
Before you call anyone else "dim," you really should know who sent people to factcheck.com in the first place. Here's a hint: it wasn't John Edwards. Also, Cheney has claimed that Mohammad Atta's alleged visit to Prague to meet with an Iraqi diplomat is proof of ties between Al Quaeda and Iraq. You might be correct in your claim, if only Atta weren't the "mastermind" of the 9/11 hijackers.
Now, now, Darwin - live by the "gotcha," die by the "gotcha." Edwards didn't have to disagree - the photos supplied by media bobbleheads eager to have their moment in the sun did it for him. As to absenteeism - well, you've got us there. Thank God Bush and Cheney have only been on vacation for 43% of their time in office - yep, they're shining examples of the American work ethic and Kerry and Edwards would do well to model themselves after them.
A little sad that Cheney cleaned little Johnny's clock last night? Where's the lie? They were in the same room that day, but did they talk to each other?
To say they met is like the high school nerd who says he knows the head cheerleader because he happened to sit next to her in the cafeteria one day.
The point, which remains accurate, is that Edwards, for two years, has not been doing his job and has not been present or active in the Senate.
Voxxy - that's not the only time they met - even Tim Russert says they stoppped, shook hands and spoke during a taping of his show. That doesn't make them best buddies, but they've met. It was a stupid and petty lie. He's told much worse - but the media love stupid and petty and now he'll pay the price. You can argue about the depth of their relationship all you want - but in this case, a picture really IS worth a thousand words. As to whether Cheney or Edwards did better last night - the voters will tell us all in November.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/
news...e_first_meeting
"The vice president said that the first time I met Senator Edwards was tonight when we walked on the stage. I guess he forgot the time we sat next to each other for a couple hours about three years ago. I guess he forgot the time we met at the swearing in of another senator. So, my wife Elizabeth reminded him on the stage," Edwards said as the crowd roared.
According to Edwards' staff, Cheney replied, "Oh, yeah."
"She reminded him about the truth," Edwards told the crowd, "and come November, we're going to remind him that the American people do not want four more years of George W. Bush.
PREVIOUS POSTS ASSUMES PEOPLE CANNOT THINK INDEPENDENTLY___>>
"Here's the key though. Let's look at the sample:
Republicans: 38%
Democrats: 31%
Independents: 27%
If you recalculate that to represent the actual electorate, it's an Edwards win"
It appears the boy wonder aka John Edwards made one heck of an impression . Cheney is far more intelligent than you give him credit.
Edwards simply is not memorable.
now this may get complicated but here goes bush cheney an the gop has broken the prophecy of daniel in the book of daniel god gave king nebuchadnezzar a dream that only daniel could tell the meaning of this is a brief telling of it five world empires will rule over babylon that is iraq to us king neb. is first then medes-persian then alexander the great then rome the rome falls but in the end times it is reborn an rules iraq (babylon) in the time since rome fell until now only two world empires have come close to ruling babylon the mongolian empire but they distroyed bagdad an left then after world war one the british empire was given a mandate to over see the area we call iraq now but at that time they where not longer a world empire the only empire to rule babylon since rome fell was the ottomen empire they were a joke of an empire in name only so now the most powerful nation in histroy the usa meets all the requirments of being a world empire is now in iraq on the edge of ruling babylon that breaks the prophesy of daniel god said if a prophet is wrong just once he is false an is to be killed but if daniel is false so is god chirst an holy spirt because to much of the bible is based on the book of daniel also god does not reconizes puppet govenments this is made clear in the new testament when christ was before pilate the jews did not yell herod is our king instead the chief priests said we have no king but caesar herod was a puppet so only if the usa is totally distroyed in iraq will the book of daniel stays true if we win the book of daniel is false no christ no salvation republicans are you still glad you voted for bush if god is real the usa will be distroyed before we win in babylon if we win in babylon god is false i spent two years tring to prove i was wrong i could not prove myself wrong now it is your turn have fun
Yo, Ducktape, you said, "The "I've never met you before tonight" WAS a practiced line, and it was the MOST totally stupid thing he could have done. It really shows what a bubble Dick Cheney lives in as well, where he can just make a statement without any thought whatsoever that it might come back to haunt him.
So why was this one so dumb? Pictures.
The media went after Gore on his claim to have debated someone he didn't, but that took words -- they had to talk and talk to prove the negative. All this one takes is a picture - no reading or talking nevessary"
Pictures, eh? Well, here's an even bigger challenge for you DimRats: Find us a picture of Edwards showing up for a committee meeting!!
As for Cheney's statement to the rugRat haunting him? LOL! People get the points - all of them. Since you don't, I'll edify you: 1). The little tyke has missed almost all of meetings he was supposed to show up for 2). Since the whoreyer's been a no-show, WTF are we payin' him for? 3). Any previous meeting with wittle Johnnie is completely forgettable by somebody of Cheney's stature.
LOL!!!!!!
Listen up, you demshits! Put down you crack pipes and pay attention! Y'all can whistle in the dark about some tintype photo of a breakfast where Cheney was forced to sit next to the little tyke at a breakfast and mentioned his name in the opening greeting, but here's a newsflash - it is customary to mention the names of every Tom, Dirk and Harry sitting at the head table at formal functions. I don't expect you plebes and cowards to know that, but it's the honest-to-gosh truth (notice I don't breath the G-word around you heathen barbarians - yeah, I said barbarians. In the U.S., only ignorant brown-shirted, jack-booted Nazi barbarians would organize a country-wide effort to physically assault members of the opposing party, and shoot up, break into, steal from and vandalize their private property. That's right, comrades, you're in the U.S., not some third-world shithole where that stuff is customary).
I digress. No photo nor name uttered at a function or a passing handshake makes a meeting, and even if it did, so what? HOW DOES THAT EXPLAIN EDWARDS' CHRONIC FAILURE TO DO HIS PRESCRIBED DUTY AS A UNITED STATES SENATOR?
To paraphrase John Kerry, WHICH IS WORSE? TO SAY SOMETHING THE WRONG WAY, OR TO BE WRONG ON THE ISSUE?
Or maybe all those nasty ol' committee meetings occurred during the little tyke's nappy time?
So, Rock, you think it was worse for Cheney to vote against the MLK holiday twenty-something years ago than it is for Kerry and Edwards to vote against body armor for our troops in the time present?
Here's a $60,000 question for you: Which do you think the American people know is vastly more important?
Meme, you said, "Cheney made a big Ass mistake saying factcheck.com when it should of been factcheck.org."
LOL! Do you realize that after Soros's moonbat commie-criers redirected the .com to Soros, people got hoppin' mad about it and went out of their way to get to .org? What that means is that even more people read the corrected info, you idiot! Now most EVERYBODY in the country knows the little tyke SUBSTANTIVELY LIED about the Haliburton thingy.
LOL!!!!
Well, well, well.......the prize goes to the Grapes of Wrath dude, Tom Joad.
You dun figgered it out.
Well done, Killer.
boo-yah! suck it down, cheny-otch!!
oh, wait, they won, didn't they. assholes. *grumbles*
boo-yah! suck it down, cheny-otch!!
oh, wait, they won, didn't they. assholes. *grumbles*
nice pic !
http://idolcutepic.blogspot.com
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