I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Bush improved. But it's not hard to speak convincingly when the truth doesn't get in the way of things. Kerry did great, as usual. I'd be surprised if any swings came out of it.
Kerry succeeded because he appeared presidential. Bush lost because he is a loser
Funny, on the radio, it wasn't 2000% lopsided.
But neither was the last one, on the radio, I mean.
I gotta get a TV. America don't know nothin' that ain't on TV.
Seriously.
Yep... Kerry did indeed ROCK!
Kerry won because Bush is not likeable. He can't admit mistakes and forgot he has an interest in a timber company.
Can we start adding 'you forgot the timber' to 'you forgot Poland'?
What do you think it means that Kerry is thrashing Chimpy in all the online polls? Clearly, we've caught up with the Freepers in terms of hitting the polls. I don't think they've given up there, so let's call that a draw.
So is Kerry *really* doing that well among undecideds, unmotivateds, and the rest? Seems too good to be true.
WOOOOOOOD!
the idiot on MSGOP sayinfg kerry won;... but somehow bush won too?
i need nonoffensive word for whore?
Totally agree ... Bush went from disastrous to adequate, but Kerry gave the best performances we've seen in any of the three debates. Let's have one more good one, then get out the vote.
We heard it in the radio. Kerry is much better than W on the radio; he wastes very little of his time. Bush "ers" and "uhs" a lot. And then there was the Dred Scott debacle, where Bush sounded like the C- student answering the snap question from the professor who caught him drifting off to sleep halfway through the lecture.
Vote Early -- then drag a neighbor in (used to be "vote often" as the follow-up but that's so like totally in my Chicago roots -- pronounced "ruuts") -- now get friggin busy and move along...
fritz
#shelter
Have a look at this new video montage of the 2nd debate: http://home.insightbb.com/~elect...ton/
debate2.wmv
This poll might only be open to AOL folks, but it needs work:
http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/
elect...007132609990012
I was struck by neither of them mentioning what's in our faces -- the cost of filling our tanks with heating oil this winter.
Will Bush show for debate #3? Does he have anything meaningful to say about domestic policy except more tax cuts for the rich?
It was Kerry, and not the Preznit, that gave me wood tonight.
I was struck by neither of them mentioning what's in our faces -- the cost of filling our tanks with heating oil this winter.
Bush once again benefitted from the soft bigotry of low expectations. He performed so poorly last time that all he had to do was show up to win points this time. Even though I think he was lousy, I think his supporters will be energized. He didn't totally suck! Wow! He's our guy! The trick to countering this will be getting even more energized about Kerry. The man is downright presidential. Bush was pedantic, talking down to average Americans.
Bush said he wanted Supreme Court Justices that would vote for him (in case there is a repeat of the 2000 selection).
Kerry whupped that Bush guy's pucker, and but double-good.
Bush was the pimple, Kerry was the squeezer.
Bush was the loaf, Kerry was the pincher.
Bush was the pendulous flabby fold, Kerry was the plastic surgeon.
Kerry gave Bush an asshole transplant, but the asshole rejected him.
Don't like Bush. Guy's an improvident lackwit. Always too busy stridin' about his atom mill to call his own mother. I'll give him what-fors 'till he cries brassafrax!
I had the pleasure of watching the debate from the local ER, courtesy of a spring-loaded garage door hinge that nearly rendered me a cyclops.
Kerry was convincing. Big time. I think he really sold himself to undecideds tonight.
Didn't I hear Bush say that the stock market had the biggest drop in histor in the six months before he took office? I just checked the charts and that is not true in any sense of the word. Did I just hear things or did he really say that and if he said that why hasn't anybody pointed out how insane the statement is?
Joe
Note -- Kerry didn't and won't "win" as big w/o Bush humiliating himself again. Kerry could be Clinton and MLK combined, but the mediawhores are pulling for Bush so much that it won't matter. And since, it seems, none of the "pundits" care to call Bush on his lies (government spending growing more under Clinton? LIE! Kerry holds up bills in a repug Senate? LIE!), only total humiliation, like the first debate, will reach the mainstream.
Hell, Cheney got away with uttering only three sentences that weren't lies.
I thought Kerry did well but I was disappointed in his answers on the environment, which did not include an explanation of Clear Skies to rebut Bush's claim that the air is cleaner. It isn't; they've lowered air quality standards to make it look that way. I also think he gave a poor answer of capping damage awards. Frankly, this issue is a loser for Bush. In states where tort reform has been enacted, medmal insurance rates have NOT come down. Moreover, when the cost of providing for the injured is too low effectively shifted to the general public. And finally, most people just don't agree that if you are maimed or crippled, the limit of your damages should be loss of earnings. If the actual pain and suffering isn't limited, why should the damages be limited. Same goes for punitive damages. When Ford chose to incinerate it's customers rather than make a cheap fix to Pintos, it was making an economic decision based upon an expectation of limited damages. Catastrophic damage awards are mostly reduced on remittitur or appeal. Those which survive serve to discourage irresponsible choices.
I think what's turning things is how well Kerry comes over. He really is pretty magnificent... not Clinton, but so cleaerly formidable. I myself got intrigied by him (after finding his pro-authorization votes utterly contemptible) by hearing that he was turning around his campaign in primaries by hanging around after his stump speech, talking to the auidence for hours, determined not to let them go til he'd persuaded (or at least answered) every question they had for him. That's terrific politics. it shows in these debates. I think (hope?) the cumulative effect of them is going to be crushing.
I was struck by neither of them mentioning what's in our faces -- the cost of filling our tanks with heating oil this winter.
THIS IS ALL KERRY HAS TO SAY TO WIN...BIG!:
HEMP BIOMASS
THERAPEUTIC MARIJUANA
...THEN IT'S OVER
PRESIDENT KERRY.
IF HE DOESN'T...
BUSH WINS.
my sympathy woot. take care
this is buried at the end of the abc news poll. partisans on both sides went heavily for their own candidates, but independents watching the debate went ten points higher for kerry. that's the victory.
"Independents divided by 44 percent to 34 percent between Kerry and Bush; however, that is within the margin of sampling error for the number of independents surveyed."
Bush forgot Portland!
Sorry, but he was talking about unemployment and stuff, and never mentioned that his policies caused one of the Left Coast's largest cities to suffer through the Nation's highest unemployment rate.
Considering all the grief he gave Kerry for forgetting about a country that wasn't one of the original combatants in Iraq--and has never contributed combat troops--I think it's only fair to remind him that he FORGOT PORTLAND.
kind of confused by the people here saying they thought Bush did adequate...i think Bush did awful during the first half of this debate, he came off quite possibly worse than the first debate. Specifically I am referring to the point at which he was yelling and interrupting the moderatot...he was very rude and disrespectful of the debate rules.
After that point, I think Laura must have given him a disapproving look because he definitely got better.
Still...hands down Kerry victory.
Ryan,
(1) The music overwhelms the speech.
(2) "Panicking" has a "k" in it.
(3) I believe he said "facile".
Ack! At least the link works. 
Joe - He STARTED to say so and then caught himself in his mistake and said "one of the biggest drops in history". Also not true, but whatever - the problem, of course, are those people who aren't going to bother or care to check up on his facts, but just blindly vote for him all the same. Scary...
That last question...oh man, I nearly died laughing. Kerry should have slammed him a little better, but he really didn't need to. It was pretty evident Bush can't admit mistakes. "Appointments" indeed.
Forget Poland! Missouri, bitch!
Behold the brilliance of Jonah Goldberg
MSNBC: Why is Ron Silver worthy of commentary??? What makes him qualified to be a pundit??? Hello? Isn't this just another vain, self-important Hollywood actor spouting off??? Ron Silver's opinion is national TV newsworthy, but Alec Baldwin or Susan Sarandon are just full of themselves?! Fuck that.
Why is everybody falling all over themselves to give Bush the "win" even though he clearly can't argue his way out of a paper bag?
I am dismayed.
God help us.
the idiot on MSGOP sayinfg kerry won;... but somehow bush won too?
i need nonoffensive word for whore?
"Practioner of the world's oldest profession" works for me.
"Practitioner". Damn, I'm tired.
Did nobody else catch in the first Iraq question about WMD that Bush repeated the "Sadam had planes" claim again?
Why is no one hitting on this....he says it was the intelligence fault and than falls back on a piece of information manufactured by the private intel they had going as an excuse for why he thought Sadam was a danger?
That...and the fact that he failed to answer the "three things you made mistakes on" question...
The pass the buck administration!
I think Kerry reminded U.S. that there was a day and age In America when presidents were elected on the basis of their Statesmanship & not on the basis of spin & wedge issues.
Was pissed that for his last question Kerry was thrown abortion, whereas Bush was pitched a softball for his last one. ABC is a bastard.
Tucker Eskew Fired Off Obscenity On National Television. Following a nationally televised CNN post-debate discussion with Paul Begala, Ann Coulter and Rep. Dick Gephardt (R-MO), Tucker Eskew, Deputy Assistant to the President for Communications, fired off a verbal obscenity at Mr. Begala. Eskew called Begala's opion "bullshit":
VERBATIM:
Begala: "...But he’s so arrogant, and his supporters are too, candidly, that they can’t admit any mistakes and the truth is this president has made a whole lot of mistakes and America is suffering for them right now."
Larry King: "Thank you Ann Coulter and Paul Begala."
Eskew (in background): "Bullshit." [CNN, 10/8/04]
Headline for tonight: Kerry takes Bush to woodshed.
I was struck by neither of them mentioning what's in our faces -- the cost of filling our tanks with heating oil this winter.
Attaturk:
Don't blogwhore, man.
GOD doesn't ask for props every time He parts the friggin Red Sea, and neither should you :-P
Bush doesn't know what's on his own tax returns. It shows an $84 income item from .... a timber company.
Now I'm afraid my prescription drugs I bought in Canada may have come from a "Third World"!
all the spin douches say that either it was close, or Bush won or Kerry barely won.....I guess they were watching a different debate than I was....Kerry whupped Bush so badly it wasn't even funny. Bush was impatient, immature and completely inarticulate...In my life I have never seen someone butcher the English language so badly How anyone can say that he looked PRESIDENTIAL is beyond me.
I want to see if the transcript tomorrow actually says "We have battling green eyeshades."
I'd love to hear what the pundits make of THAT.
The media seems to feel guilty about panning Bush's performance in the first debate, and now they're tripping all over themselves praising Bush's "comeback" performance. Interesting, judging by the online poll, viewers are having none of it. In every poll I've seen asking who won the second debate Kerry gets twice as many votes as Bush.
FIRST GAFFE OF DEBATE NIGHT. George W. Bush: "I hear there's rumors on the Internets." Big laugh in the press room -- How many Internets does he think are out there?.
Cnn is actually saying that Kerry is leading 47-45 but there are more Republicans, so that Kerry made a lot of progress!
Kerry Won.
He had his facts and was poised and confident.
Bush fell flat on his face and again got up angrily breaking the rules of the debate. Behaved like a quarrelsome child.
Kerry has a clear plan and good skills to be the President.
Kerry ate Bu$h up. Chimp was disjointed, nonsensencical, hostile and...drum roll, the fool you saw with your own eyes.
How any fucking talking head can pretend bush was anything but a disaster is insulting. Bill Schneider can go to hell.
Bush didn't look as hungover this time as he did last time, but he still didn't do well. A lot of it is that he didn't do the broken record routine, saying "it's hard work, I know it's hard" whenever he couldn't figure out what else to say. He just repeated shit and screamed louder.
Here's a poll.
Obviously I'm prejudiced, but Bush was so fucking shrill and grating. If you spend all your time watching pro-wrestling, or attending whacked-out white-trash sermons by Christian Identity types, I could see it being music to your ears...but for anyone else, yuck.
They're obviously trying a different cocktail of drugs on him. They toned him down too much last time, wired him too much this time. They should be able to get the dosage right next time...
It's cute the way LGF thinks Bush wiped his ass with Kerry's face tonight. Really adorable. I could just eat 'em up.
While Bush still had the occasional smirk, wink, and scowl, most of the time he had it replaced with that 'thrall' (deer in the headlights) look.
He looked like that service station attendant on Mayberry RFD most of the time -- that is to say, bone stupid.
Woot. What a dysfunctional post, my friend... I get these images of a Jack Tripper stunt gone wrong .
Like maybe some boobies walked by and caught your attention. Truly the description and result are both alarming.
We need a boobie-woot to appear behind Kerry as he answers questions from the debate.
As for the abortion-tax qestioness, she bore a striking resemblance to a St.Louis sweetie I met elsewhere online. Like an older sister type o' thing.
WIll not get into details on it unless I find out otherwise.
One of the polls of a St.Louis area media featured a Q&A of a 'couple' with 'differing views'. It almost looked like our questionairre, but upon loading it froze my cheap dial up ...
Woot- relief thread in order atrios!
MSNBC: Why is Ron Silver worthy of commentary??? What makes him qualified to be a pundit??? - drunken hausfrau
Not one pundit has any special knowledge or has greater insight than the average American. But, they do know who signs their paychecks.
Turn Bush over to the Authorities. His reign of terror is over.
.
Bush YELLED at everyone who asked him a question. He BERATED security moms and joe six packs alike. Bush showed none of the supposed charm the media claims for him.
Bill Maher kicked his non-present ass!!!
George IS TOAST!!! IMHO
CNN's poll declares Kerry the winner, 47-45. But notably, Bill Schneider pointed out that substantially more republicans were polled. For Kerry to nonetheless pull out a victory under those circumstances underscores just how conclusive his victory tonight was. Keep it up, Big John.
I had the pleasure of watching the debate from the local ER, courtesy of a spring-loaded garage door hinge that nearly rendered me a cyclops. wÒÓ†
Yoicks! I had a run-in once with a door-spring in a 1978 VW Rabbit.
Kerry done good, no matter what your vision.
Nedra Pickler:
Asked about abortion, Kerry, who supports a woman's right to have an abortion, noted that he was a Roman Catholic but said he could not let his faith influence his decision. In a long, rambling answer, he said the United States should not bar the use of federal money for family planning programs overseas.
Rambling? I guess the Pickler has a problem with "deciphering" the Constitution as much as Bush does.
By the way, I sent my hard-hitting email to the networks about my opinion. This is the next best thing you can do after taking all the polls. Get to it!
Memes include: Bush angry, shouting, agressive, inconsistant in character, unable to answer last question about mistake. Kerry presidential, confident, didn't need to shout to be heard. Bush: way less factual. Check factcheck.org, Cheney's favorite site. Mention 'Missouri being larger than almost all coalition countries' line.
What's with the dolphin heads on MSNBC?
Had to settle for some hit and miss radio coverage while entertaining friends in Vegas for the week. But did notice how forced and high-pitched his voice got when lying.
Later he began to shout his answers to overcome the voice.
But the BushCo team has found that the referee this time will be the people and are panicking.
The single most noticeable character trait was Kerry's continuous, polite use of first names to respond to the questioners. Bush just doesn't give a damn about anyone but himself.
I'll be out pounding the pavement Sunday wearing my Republican for Kerry shirt and trying to convince one undecided voter at a time.
This part of the debate needs to be played over and over again:
"I've got to answer this," Bush said, cutting off Gibson, then indignantly responded to Kerry. "You tell Tony Blair we're going alone."
Bush Unhinged!
wÒÓ†!
We need yer Photoshoppin' eyes. Jeebus. It's like Segovia gettin' his fingers broke.
Get well.
Whoa...Cthulhu, step off my man Attaturk. We know his blog rocks and appreciate the updates.
Not one pundit has any special knowledge or has greater insight than the average American. But, they do know who signs their paychecks.
Well, that's more true for some than others now isn't it? In defense of some of the pundits, they have actually worked on Capital Hill for major political players or even held public office.
Btw, it's quite amusing to see some of Kerry's best reviews on Fox News.
CNN showed the bit again where Bush argued with the moderator.
Oh that it get replayed as much as Dean's YEEEEEEAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!! moment. It really was much worse.
Bush made another early gaff where he said Kerry voted against the 87 billion before voting for it.
What most of the media ignores is the large invisible elephant sitting smack in the middle of their studios: that Bush is not smart enough to be a president of anything. They pretend this elephant doesn't exist and work around it. It's extremely demeaning, really, when you actually think about it. The most important country in the world has an idiot holding the reins, and we all chuckle encouragingly because he didn't today act like a total wreck.
In a sane reality we wouldn't even have a discussion like this.
I agree with some of the others in this thread . . . Bush didn't do better; he sucked!
Half the time, you can't even figure out what the hell he's saying, like tonight's "hydrogen generated cars," for example. But the SCLM "translates" for him in the news accounts, and, at least in print stories, reports what he WOULD have said if he wasn't such a verbally challenged fucking moron.
That pisses me off. They ought to report it just the way he says it, gaffes and all, so people reading it can say, "Damn, that Bush is a stupid fuck."
Just saying.
Whoa...Cthulhu, step off my man Attaturk. We know his blog rocks and appreciate the updates.
Ditto. His blog's great. If he says click, hell yes I'll click!
Oh and I was honest about being a Kerry supporter in my emails. I think it makes me sound better in my email, instead of them assuming I'm lying about hinting that I'm a swing voter or something. Makes it more real.
Hell lemme post it:
Subject: Kerry, presidential.
Body: Bush, aggressive, mean, distorting, and angry.
I'll admit, I was expecting Bush to self-destruct, based on his performance last week. I think you (the media) all were too.
As a Kerry supporter, perhaps you don't consider my opinion important. However, I did watch the debate carefully, and what I saw was an inconsistant president Bush. Inconsistant on the issues he spoke of, but most of all, inconsistant of charater. I watched him squirm and give non-answers to that last question - and I want to ask your viewers: do we really want to have another four years of a president who can't admit a mistake, or who doesn't know the meaning of the phrase, "the buck stops here"?
I am a small business owner, and I cannot afford the health care premiums, or to buy a home. I don't get any of Bush's big tax cuts - I don't make enough money. Senator Kerry has what it takes to help someone like me. He has what it takes to protect this country and support ours troops the right way - by being honest with them and only risking their lives as a last resort. He has what it takes to turn this country around - not around a corner, but all the way into a new tomorrow which fulfills the promise and the dream that is our birthright as Americans.
buchanon- has reassumed his place on his knees before the republican cock.
Bush certainly didn't help himself on this one. And I believe that the fact checking post-debate will not work in his favor either, as there were glaring misrepresentations and errors on his part.
I know Kerry can do better, but he still did better than Bush.
Kerry's 2 for 2.
Bush was concerned that Charlie Gibson wouldn't let him talk so he unilaterally interrupted him.
Is Kerry ever going to adequately answer the $87billion question? I've seen dozens of good answers on the web, including here, why doesn't he and his briefers answer this well?
LOL, Pat.
That didn't take long.
Maybe we should combine these...
"Need some wood for my off-road diesel engine. I'm going to Poland."
That timber stuff is more damaging than you might think at first glance. His stump speech has this line:
"The rich hire lawyers and accountants for a reason -- to stick you with the bill."
Well isn't that exaclty what Bush has done here? It's not just that Bush is a liar, that he acutually does own part of timber company. That's not it. It's that he doesn't even know what's reported on his taxes.
This shows not only that he lied, but that he's out of touch - even with himself.
There doesn't seem to be as much post-debate commentary as in the first prez debate. The first debate was more important, more anticipated, watched by more people. Almost immediately after it the pundits were pretty clear that Kerry won. It's two hours after this second debate tonight and I'm not seeing any coherent meme in the mainstream media about who won or who lost.
Bush was much better tonight but Kerry was solid, but Bush's universally panned performance in the first debate is going to continue to bring Bush's numbers down.
LOL, Pat.
That didn't take long.
Maybe we should combine these...
"Need some wood for my off-road diesel engine. I'm going to Poland. I got a great deal off the internets."
Sorry for the length --
Did anyone else notice that Kerry addressed the audience members by name -- even if they asked the question to Bush -- while Bush never acknowledged anybody's name, almost waving them aside several times?
Also, that Kerry frequently used local examples in Missouri to illustrate his points, while Bush may as not even known what state he was in?
I think Kerry connected to the crowd much better -- not as good as a Clinton or Edwards, but he certainly made more of an effort than Bush did.
Kerry also never, NEVER appeared rattled, confused, or indignant. Bush at one point almost threw a fit, talking over Moderator Gibson's offer to give him more time. Bush also asked if he had more time, only to not have anything to say for the next 15 seconds.
Kerry on style, Kerry on content ("compassionate convervatism? Mr. President, you're 0-for-2"). Kerry missed chances to really cement his advantage in this area on some questions, but some of his other answers (I can't legislate my faith, Bush using labels and scare tactics rather than addressing the issue) were brilliant.
Bush better than the first time around, but Kerry was unshakable. I've felt all along that people have already made up their minds on Bush, so the only real test of these debates is that Kerry needs to demonstrate that he is an acceptable alternative to Bush. If he does that, Kerry succeeds, even if he does not "win" a debate. Kerry has now done that twice.
Kerry looks better in a debate setting than he does in any other setting. They should carry those lights with him on his campaign tour and force Kerry to answer every question within 2 minutes.
Biggest negative -- Kerry is now painted into a corner regarding taxes. Conservatives have managed to convince everybody that ALL taxes are bad -- yeah, I guess we would all be better off without highways, schools, bridges, police, an army, social security, etc.
kind of confused by the people here saying they thought Bush did adequate...i think Bush did awful during the first half of this debate, he came off quite possibly worse than the first debate. Specifically I am referring to the point at which he was yelling and interrupting the moderatot...he was very rude and disrespectful of the debate rules.
the awful truth
I agree. I only heard the first half on the radio, but I thought Bush came across terribly. From the outset he adopted a sort of hectoring tone and was pretty near constantly yelling.
He seemed to be thinking "how dare you question me?"
He also, surprisingly to me, repeated a lot of themes that didn't go over so well the first time -- "hard work", "mixed messages", "wrong war wrong place wrong time", etc.
Bush sounded horrible on the radio...crazed. I think this debate goes for Kerry even more this time. In addition the vast majority of Bush's points included "I think..."...as if if he thought the earth was the center of the universe it would be.
JFK All The Way!!!
But don't forget poland.
Btw, it's quite amusing to see some of Kerry's best reviews on Fox News.
I noticed that too. What is up with that?
Did anyone else hear when Nero said if Kerry had his way, Saddam would still be in power, "and the world would be a better place"?
new name for whore:
pundit of negotiable veracity.
wÒÓ†: Just read your post...Jebus, man, watch out for those Republican garage doors! (Hope you get better soon.)
The media seems to feel guilty about panning Bush's performance in the first debate, and now they're tripping all over themselves praising Bush's "comeback" performance. Interesting, judging by the online poll, viewers are having none of it. In every poll I've seen asking who won the second debate Kerry gets twice as many votes as Bush.
Did anyone else notice how Bush was working his jaw.
The excited, agitated behavior, the jaw.
He acted like someone doing cocaine.
Question, which group is dumber: MSGOP whores or the "undecideds"?
Frustrating, both, that's for sure.
I had the pleasure of watching the debate from the local ER, courtesy of a spring-loaded garage door hinge that nearly rendered me a cyclops.
Man! be careful.
Who will do animated boobies for us if you go blind?
Attaturk is allowed to blogwhore.
Did anyone else hear when Nero said if Kerry had his way, Saddam would still be in power, "and the world would be a better place"?
Did anyone else hear Kerry answer that question by saying: "that's not NECESSARILY true"
As a Kerry supported I'm a little nervous that could hurt him
Bush went: blink, blink, SHOUT!, blink.
He also didnt' know what to do with his hands again.
Anyone catch a possible wire this time?
I thought when Bush said my guys are working overtime. Kerry should of said-Thats surprising because I thought you tried to cut Overtime pay.
When Bush started his "don't tell Tony Blair we're going it alone" I wish Kerry had said, "well Poland just told you to go BE alone"
Bush sounded horrible on the radio...crazed.
Agreed. These debates always make me tense, and Bush's blueblood faux-drawl drives me crazy...but tonight he was so awful that I couldn't even sit still for it. I was pacing back and forth with my teeth clenched painfully.
Biggest negative -- Kerry is now painted into a corner regarding taxes. Conservatives have managed to convince everybody that ALL taxes are bad -- yeah, I guess we would all be better off without highways, schools, bridges, police, an army, social security, etc.
The Truth Hurts
Actually, he has managed to pull a Bre'r Rabbit and let himself be trapped, should he win, into having a mandate to tax only the rich.
Did anyone else hear when Nero said if Kerry had his way, Saddam would still be in power, "and the world would be a better place"?
I did.
A shame that Bush's slapstick awfulness overshadows how good Kerry was. I was filled with admiration for Kerry during the debate but right now all I can remember is Dubya channeling the Three Stooges. Although that could be the beer.
Btw, it's quite amusing to see some of Kerry's best reviews on Fox News.
I noticed that too. What is up with that?
Rats leaving a sinking ship.
.
1) I agree, drop the music a bit and up the vocal.
2) Agreed, obviously
3) I think he meant to say faster, rounding out the threesome of "lighter, quicker and ..." Facile's not a very commonly used word, and Bush isn't exactly known for his verbosity.
George W. Bush: "I hear there's rumors on the Internets."
My phone rang about 10 seconds after that comment. I thought, "Who the FUCK that knows me would call me right now???"
...My gentleman friend, calling to find out how many internets I have access to.
Olbermann wrote that "bloggers could be heard howling over the multiple."
WooT - Please take care of yourself! Glad that you are feeling well enough to post now. You are in my thoughts and prayers - soothing balm to that eyeball from nurse elie )aka workingwoman)
Question, which group is dumber: MSGOP whores or the "undecideds"?
That's one of those "angels dancing on the head of a pin" type of questions.
Both dumber than a box of rocks.
thersites. i think bush wastes so much time because he is in the habit of receiving extensive applause after each statement he makes.
another thing. . .i thought of a question i would like to ask both of them when they were talking about prescription drugs from canada. here it is:
what is the fucking point of cycling them through canada at all? wouldn't they be even cheaper if we didn't bother selling them to canada and then buying them back at a higher price? it's a scheme worthy of milo.
Btw, it's quite amusing to see some of Kerry's best reviews on Fox News.
I noticed that too. What is up with that?
They were? Really? Wow.
I myself tried to watch MSNBC but couldn't stomach it. So I sent my email to Hardass himself.
Atrios--you're sniffing from the same tank that MSNBC is using!
Bush was even worse in debate 2 than debate 1. Yes, he was different, but worse...
And Kerry was kind to him.
Three Cheers for Gallup!!!
George W. Bush: "I hear there's rumors on the Internets."
**
My phone rang about 10 seconds after that comment. I thought, "Who the FUCK that knows me would call me right now???"
...My gentleman friend, calling to find out how many internets I have access to.
Olbermann wrote that "bloggers could be heard howling over the multiple."
Silleigh
Holy crap, you should have seen us in the chatroom...I nearly died laughing at that one.
Not one pundit has any special knowledge or has greater insight than the average American. But, they do know who signs their paychecks.
Well, that's more true for some than others now isn't it? In defense of some of the pundits, they have actually worked on Capital Hill for major political players or even held public office.
The american public has been brain washed that the word 'threat' automatically equals the need for unilateral war. The majority of threats are not in fact dealt with in this way. If George Bush was president during the cold war the human race would be extinct. They will not notice that the president has ignored many threats. They will not notice that the president has tried to change the meaning of a word into a barbaric bell and whistle. There will be idiots in the public that say wait a minute, Kerry just called Hussein a threat, his position is inconsistent.
Fox News refuses to display this photo from tonights town hall debate.
"the Internets."
Bush is right. I've got an "internet" at home in thissy here computer, and I've got one at work on thatty there computer.
I can tell they's differenck Internets, 'cos the one at work don't got no porn or cuss words in it.
.
What about Bus's story about the woman buying drugs at $10 a bottle and saving about 10%?
You can't get that kind of deal on a bottle of Advil.
They just don't get it. People spend thousands on prescription drugs.
My only question:
KERRY: Boy, to listen to that -- the president, I don't think, is living in a world of reality with respect to the environment.
Now, if you're a Red Sox fan, that's OK. But if you're a president, it's not.
As a diehard Red Sox fan, I wonder just what Kerry is implying? That Red Sox fans are out of touch with reality? :p
Also:
Mort Kondracke: "... I think Kerry won this debate as he won the first debate I don't think... I thought that Kerry was much more aggressive and the president was basically on the defense and didn't have new arguments didn't have...wasn't as facile as he should have been." [Fox News Channel, 10/8/04]
Bill Kristol: "I guess I think if you think the President was doing okay and didn't need a win in this debate, he did fine, but I think, if one thinks that Bush missed an awful lot of opportunities to go after Kerry in the first debate he had to make some of them up in this debate, I'm not sure he really succeeded in doing so." [Fox New Channel, 10/8/04]
Brit Hume: "Is it now fair to say that in each of these debates in terms of marshaling arguments, and remembering them and presenting them that this is something John Kerry has proved he is very good at. And that it doesn't play to the president's strong suit." [Fox News Channel, 10/8/04]
Mort Kondracke: "I thought [Kerry] was very effective. I thought that he was also on the attack a lot and frankly I thought that the President seemed to be on the defense a lot and trying to explain things and not explaining them all that well." [Fox News Channel, 10/8/04]
(Via Kos)
Did anyone else hear when Nero said if Kerry had his way, Saddam would still be in power, "and the world would be a better place"?
I did.
Photoshop Idea:
Pic of Bush in the flight suit saying:
"Hey! I've got wood!"
kind of confused by the people here saying they thought Bush did adequate...i think Bush did awful during the first half of this debate, he came off quite possibly worse than the first debate. Specifically I am referring to the point at which he was yelling and interrupting the moderatot...he was very rude and disrespectful of the debate rules.
I thought he was disrespectful when he interrupted the moderator.
But so far no one one TV land has mentioned it. Pat Buchannan is pissing me off.
Bush was even worse in debate 2 than debate 1. Yes, he was different, but worse...
And Kerry was kind to him.
Three Cheers for Gallup!!!
SpringBored
I think I agree with that assessment...man, his shouting was terrible. He was really, really defensive. I think he lost any edge he had with all those security moms. Woman might like a strong leader (god, listen to my antifemist crap here), but they do NOT like an agressive asshole. We've dated too many of them to get fooled.
And he still had some of those looks, on occasion...
One thing that annoyed me about the camera angles, at least on CSPAN: I kept seeing Kerry sideways. On that last question, I kept saying, "GO to the camera FACING him you dolts!" The impact of the answer is diminished by that camera angle (even though Kerry was facing his questioner, a good thing).
There doesn't seem to be as much post-debate commentary as in the first prez debate. The first debate was more important, more anticipated, watched by more people. Almost immediately after it the pundits were pretty clear that Kerry won. It's two hours after this second debate tonight and I'm not seeing any coherent meme in the mainstream media about who won or who lost.
Bush was much better tonight but Kerry was solid, but Bush's universally panned performance in the first debate is going to continue to bring Bush's numbers down.
WOOT- how's the eye? Not too bad, I hope. Please post letting us know if you are going to come out alright. I'm sure lot's of people are worried.
I send my wishes for a speedy recovery from this garage door mishap.
Faux news just reported a win for Kerry...
"I want them all voting for me." - Jeeeez, does that put the whole SCOTUS in a conflict of interest?
Damn! wOOt, please take care. In this terrible world of violence and war, we need all the boobies we can get.
So votom: Go email all the media outlets! Let us MAKE them call it correctly for Kerry!
I believe Kerry was very clear in making this election a referendum on Bush, and very clear on exposing Bush's lack of a record. What worries me is the post debate spin. It is like all the talking heads got talking points from the GOP.
Bush's behavior was bizarre tonight. He was very hopped up on something, I think. He was angry, impulsive, and strange. At one point, he interupted the moderator, I thought we was going to lose it. Did you see him wink after he gave a answer that thought was pretty good? He's a weirdo.
MSNBC is interviewing the students at GWU and they are doing a better job than the pundits in analyzing the debate.
Kerry rocked.
kerry comes off as presidential once again and the preznut comes off as a novice when matching the two side by side
again we are left with the preznut saying, "because I said so" and a ton of faith thrown in, while kerry goes with the optimistic, sturdy style points
the battle now is for the undecideds and the preznut did not come close to winning these folks, although he energized the people already committed to them; kerry came off much more thoughtful and intelligent and even leadership seemed to move into kerry's direction tonite
kerry crushed him with iraq and now he has to reinforce the economic plan in the next week leading up to tempe. women watched kerry tonite and saw a president who could be capable and focused and thoughtful - kerry wins because he did no damage to himself and has clearly put the preznut on the defensive bordering on aggressive which is much different than passionate
even when the preznut wasn't making a face at the camera, he looked upset and agitated beneath the calm mask -- kerry has shifted the referendum on this election off of himself and right onto the preznut
in combination with the recent reports on jobs and wmd, this is a steel spike cutting the preznut in half
"Bush was even worse in debate 2 than debate 1. Yes, he was different, but worse..."
There's an old Middle-Eastern saying that goes:
"Once you've done a shit in your pants, any move you make just makes things worse."
.
Not...even...CLOSE. Kerry *destroyed* the lying fly-boy. Incredible.
Whoa...Cthulhu, step off my man Attaturk. We know his blog rocks and appreciate the updates.
Biblio
Heh, sorry about the confusion.
What I was trying to say (before hoisting many beers to Kerry's brilliant victory) was that someone as AWESOME as ATTATURK shouldn't bother linking to his own posts because all right-thinking people will have already read his post before he has time to link to it.
He's a weirdo.
internets girl
The best description I heard about Bush so far.
Bush is like a case of Pink-Eye.
Disgusting to look at, but curable.
.
Why is everybody missing the big headline? It should be the last question in the debate. Headline: BUSH ONCE AGAIN REFUSES TO ADMIT MISTAKES.
Hands down, Kerry absolutely ROCKED tonight. Ironically, I thought he was considerably BETTER than last week...clear, strong, calling Scrub on all the bullshit. But, ya'll KNEW the media whole sluts would spin this one for Shrub. The fucker couldn't name ONE mistake? How about this...snorting an 8 Ball in the green room.
I think they had Bush on speed. After all, this *was* past his bedtime....He did keep grinding his teeth.
sorry ADDABOY, but the clip they will be playing this weekend is the preznut "stamping around over charlie gibson trying to get one more swipe in at kerry" .. you never get a second chance at a first impression? miami did it to the preznut, and kerry just needs to keep needling him into another "episode" ... this is really good political theater, folks, and kerry is now the leading man .. the preznut is a two bit action figure now, wearing a flight suit, of course
wOOt: careful there, guy-- that kinda thing is why I just leave the door open all the time...
saw a bit of the Dear Leader's riff on Elmer Fudd Gantry--- seems a bit late to be shoring up the fundy base, no?
I saw Big John do the Q & A thing with the audience last January-- and I wasn't too worried about his performance-- he is good at that kind of thing (and no comparisons to Clinton- fuck that- Bill isn't running this year).
coming from someone who used to counsel drug addicts.
yes, W was on coke.
Ha ha, Fox just showed the results of their Internets poll on TV!
Big bright letters: Kerry 72%, Bush 37%
Eat it Fox!
wow. Faux news really is giving Kerry the best coverage he's gotten all night.
"Bush was playing to his base, Kerry was aiming at the moderate voter. I think we're going to see a move up in the polls for Kerry"
F.Y.I. the 'GretaPoll' on Fox currently has Kerry at 56%
http://www.foxnews.com/story/
0,2...,134871,00.html
Here comes the relentless(because the first debate was called for Kerry), Bush won no matter what...blind loyalty...at least they are like their choice for leader
I get the impression that Bush and Kerry actually like each other, but disagree with each other's politics. I've got friends like that, who I argue with endlessly about politics, but I still love.
Telltaleheart, still wiping the tears of laughter from my eyes, thanks...
I think Kerry thinks Bush is a total idiot
Aaron Brown called Scrub "Over-Caffeinated." Yo, Aaron, in the hood we call it TWEAKED OUT. In all seriousness, for anybody who has EVER done speed or seen someone on it...there is NO fuckin doubt that Scrub had gone over his "LINES" in advance of this debate. No contest -- Kerry kicked his ASS
oh, come on now, ed. you can't say for certain that bush was on coke. for all we know it could have been some kind of synthetic amphetamine.
The saddest part about MSNBC's After hours crew is that they've spent all this time spinning the simple-minded, "bring 'em on", from h@&! to high water, mind-trip(otherwise known as vision for America's future). When they ask the audience what is their viewpoint was on the debate, one student pointed out Bush's Dred Scott gaffe, another pointed out the intelligent answers Kerry gave on the domestic issues (Fineman says Kerry's answer on abortion was "convoluted", and he felt confused like George felt.) At least now with national exposure due to the debates Kerry's message is getting to some voters to inform them of there choices on what he is about..., despite the 'liberal' bias of the media.
"Bush was even worse in debate 2 than debate 1. Yes, he was different, but worse..."
There's an old saying we have in Texas...probly also in Tennessee...am I in Tennessee?...Fool me once, shame on you...Fool me twice...shame on Dred Scott.
Funny, on the radio, it wasn't 2000% lopsided.
On the radio, Bush came across to me as whiny, almost exactly the same Bush I heard on Thursday. From watching the crazy clip I can see that his body language is a little better.
Kerry has more mojo than Bush, but he seems unaware of that fact. Bush on the other hand is like the creepy guy who comes on to you at bar like he's God's gift to women - but he's a caveman a real turn off. I can't understand how anyone can like this guy.
Kerry rules!
Kerry has more mojo than Bush, but he seems unaware of that fact. Bush on the other hand is like the creepy guy who comes on to you at bar like he's God's gift to women - but he's a caveman a real turn off. I can't understand how anyone can like this guy.
Kerry rules!
GORGE BUSH (AHAHA! "BUSH" LOLZ) NO'S ALL HE NO'S FRUM REEDING MY GUIDE TO TEH USING TEH INTARNETS!!!1!. SO BACK-UP FAGGORTS OR BE HAXXORED!
Netscape browsers from their home page rated it Kerry 59-39.
I posted this on another Atrios thread, but its hard to keep up with so many tonight... no one seems to understand why Dred Scot was mentioned. The reason: the case was tried in St. Louis in the old courthouse near the arch. Chimpy trying to add local flave, i guess.
Kerry/Edwards in '04!
Mission Accomplished!
I found both debates to actually be entertaining, shrub fumbles and stumbles, Kerry looks and sounds great, an occaisional mis-step, but compared to shrub, absolutely presidential, my vote goes 2 for 2, YOU DA MAN, BIG JOHN!
wÒÓ†: Just read your post...Jebus, man, watch out for those Republican garage doors! (Hope you get better soon.)
3 stitches and I'm good to go. Thanks everybody for your concern.
hey gordon it's gordon the troll!
Re: "timber company"
Does Bush still own his lake house in Texas? I think I remember reading about it in Kevin Phillips "American Dynasty." He and the other members of the exclusive lakeside development get a huge property tax break based on agricultural zoning (or else some kind of green zoning) because they grow trees on their property. I can see them occasionally cutting down a tree and selling the wood -- and 80 something dollars might be Bush's cut (no pun intended). My father does that occasionally on his farm. He sold a storm damaged walnut that had to be taken down and got something over a thousand dollars for it IIRC.
wow, anyone who terms himself "the" anything as in "The Magnificent" is either suffering from extreme megalomania or has a lifelong fetish for "dungeons and dragons" with his other 50ish year old trekkie buds
at any rate, crack open the Battlestar Gallactica DVD box set, Gordo, you've clearly blown a gasket and should spare the world your water cooler chatter at the Snap On tool distribution plant
psst .. the hanoi john comment and your use of the word "shitter" places you in trailer park land just outside of biloxi, i suspect
Kerry seemed to keep eye contact with his questioners, something which shrub did not do as much, makes quite a difference...
I think Gordon's living in the same land of delusion that Bush lives in.
Can someone recap the whole wood/timber thing? I only caught part of the debate on radio and am catching up. Thanks!
Don't agree with your assessment. Kerry had some banner moments, but was spotty, and too distant and formal at the beginning, also, addressing the President instead of the crowd was a mistake.
Bush wasn't as spastic as last time, but his answers were worse - didn't know about his own investment, "You can run but you can't hide" (one guy at the bar yelled, 'tell that to bin Laden!!!), "were gonna increase wetlands by five million ('five million what??'), Dredd Scott?????
So, Kerry didn't blow it, coulda been better. Bush didn't have a clue.
People on the Hannity board are saying that Terry McAuliffe admitted (to Sean Hannity) that Kerry lost the debate.
Commentez-Vous, s'il vous plait?
Dismissed!!!
Gordon the Maleficent
Ah, another disciple of the "if I say it a lot, it must be true" school of philosophy.
I've been bushnotized! (cue theremin music)
-
billin:
Kerry says Bush would have counted as one of his 900,000 S-corporations because he received $400 or something from a timber company he has an ownership stake in. Bush says, "I own a timber company? That's news to me." Cuz he's an idiot.
What was that bit at the end when Bush said the Duelfer report justified the Iraq invasion? WTF was that all about?
I thought the report said the opposite.
What was that bit at the end when Bush said the Duelfer report justified the Iraq invasion? WTF was that all about?
I thought the report said the opposite.
Mooser
the dem spin folks need to work overtime this weekend to tear apart the factual points now ... make them stick by sunday evening
LOL! Are you clowns still gulping down the koolaid? Face it, Kerry lost. Just move on and get ready for the next debate.
After W's Dred Scott remark, my wife made the comment that it's great that W won't endorse a pro-slavery Supreme Court Justice. I thought that Kerry should have nailed him on that one.
I am waiting to see of the papers declare W the victor b/c he didn't completely screw up again.
His entire debating technique is the same as Cheney's - lies, more lies and even more lies b/c nobody is going to check to see if he was lying.
Bush took Kerry to school (blather, blather)...
Gordon the Maleficent
Judging by Bush's fractured syntax, tortured logic, facial twitching and inappropriate attempts at humor it must be a school of Pharmaceutical Sciences.
-
Bush will forever have the distinction of being the least-qualified candidate in the history of the country - twice!
I hear they have the internets on computers now...
Have A Nice, Hot Cup O' Joe!
I thought Kerry was fanatstic. IMO, better than Clinton or anyone candidate I've ever seen at a POTUS debate.
I thought the way he answered the abortion question was masterful without backing away one iota from his position. The Mo. comparison to the "coalition", the "3 guys in this room who will pay more", and (my favorite) taking on the divisive "labels" beautifully and destroying Bushs (and the entire Right Wings) attack strategy of calling him a liberal. Just the honest, unapologetic "I'm a Catholic...it got me through a war" should get him thousands of deserved votes.
Sure, he could've brought up the price of oil and WTF is "jaw-boning"? or said "Didn't you say "you can run but you can't hide" about Bin Laden?". But damn, he was superb tonight and I will vote for Kerry with more enthusiasm on 11/2 than I've ever voted for anyone.
Oh yeah, Bush sucked again tonight. Kerry was awesome.
LOL! Are you clowns still gulping down the koolaid? Face it, Kerry lost. Just move on and get ready for the next debate.
Piss-poor trolls tonight, THE BOYS IS HURTIN....
George Bush: 90 Lies in 90 Minutes.
LOL! Are you clowns still gulping down the koolaid? Face it, Kerry lost. Just move on and get ready for the next debate.
Avestus
Hey Avestus:
This list of polls pretty clearly shows Kerry won tonight's debate.
Sucka.
Watch it woot, one of these fucks will try to take out your other eye, regards.....
Watch it woot, one of these fucks will try to take out your other eye, regards.....
They can have my other eye when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
I was pretty impressed by the questions from the Missouri folks. But I can't figure out how a group of people smart and perceptive enough to ask that set of questions could still identify themselves as "undecideds" at this stage of the game.
Crap, did I just out myself as Mullah Omar?
"They can have my other eye when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers."
wÒÓ†
Damn, Woot -- funniest thing I've heard in weeks.
Better trolls plz
Absolutely fucking right. Bush was better, and Kerry took his measure, and was even better than that.
You have to like the idea of a President who measures his opponent, sees what's required, and meets the challenge.
John Kerry is my President.
MAYBE they juss claimed they were undecided to get themselves in the hall.
Gordon has a tiny penis.
.
Microscopic. And he's an idiot. Not the most attractive of combinations.
But from what I read, he is certainly a chempeen cocksucker.
Which is nice, I suppose.
Gordon has a tiny penis.
TelltaleHeart
you give him too much credit ... it's probably more of a prosthetic with a spin top
here's an easy form to send letters to your local papers:
http://www.democrats.org/media/
George W. Bush is getting Kerry-ed Away.
bush: "that's not what it says in the constitution, it says ......... we won't get fooled again!"
My personal favorite moment of the debate, I would have fell out if he had actally quoted the constitution. What a friggin shit for brains, what a moran.
i don't think bush was on anything tonight. after last week's remote, distant performance, i think he was off the anti-depressants tonight, so as to be more alert, more sharp. instead, he came off as angry and short-tempered.
talk about backhanded compliments from, none other than, novakula from his craftmatic adjustable bed:
Bob Novak
I thought Bush won the debate. Kerry didn't make any major gaffes but Bush showed he wasn't the ninny that he appeared to be in Florida.
geez, and this guy is on the side of chimpy mcflightsuit? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
"piss poor trolls tonight."
on the contrary. gordon is a magnificent troll. his blue paragraph is easy to identify in advance, facilitating the scroll through
Anytime Bush doesn't chew off his own leg, or vomit on the carpet, he is the clear winner.
I fired off an e-mail to Hardball tonight-- the post-game coverage was so blatantly, bizarrely biased that within moments, a roomful of jaws had dropped. Did these guys watch the same debate that we did? Has Chris Matthews' brain been taken over by pod-people? Despite the pathetically lowered bar, Bush still managed to sound like a half-wit in comparison with Kerry and to the thoughtful, articulate people who asked questions. Every attempt at jokesy-folksy humor fell completely flat. And yet if you tuned into MSNBC afterwards, you would've thought that Bush had ridden in on a white horse carrying Osama's head on a stick. Bizarre. Matthews went on about how Kerry failed to humanize the stem-cell discussion? Uh, yeah, except for the three people he talked about who were directly affected. I actually thought it was one of Kerry's strongest moments, along with his answer to the abortion question which I thought was very strong--honest and human and well thought-out. Fineman and co. went on about how confusing and long-winded it all was. Is it really? I mean--can we really not digest any answer that won't fit on a bumper-sticker?
Just so disappointed in Matthews. Pod-people exeunt!
Bush said the Duelfer report justified the Iraq invasion? WTF was that all about?
I thought the report said the opposite.
Dyslexia, remember?
i wonder what Jon Stewart will do with the "need some wood?" comment
i smell a must watch on monday
Better trolls plz...
Fergeddit. The rats jumped that ship some time ago...
BTW, it's official - Tipsy's wired for sound:
What was that bulge in the back of President Bush's suit jacket at the presidential debate in Miami last week?
According to rumors racing across the Internet this week, the rectangular bulge visible between Mr. Bush's shoulder blades was a radio receiver, transmitting answers from an offstage counselor into a hidden presidential earpiece. The prime suspect was Karl Rove, Mr. Bush's powerful political adviser.
When the online magazine Salon published an article about the rumors on Friday - the day of the second presidential debate, in St. Louis - the speculation reached such a pitch that White House and campaign officials found themselves inundated with calls.
First they said that pictures showing the bulge might have been doctored. But then, when the bulge turned out to be clearly visible in the television footage of the evening, they offered a different explanation.
"There was nothing under his suit jacket," said Nicolle Devenish, the Bush campaign's communications director.
"It was most likely a rumpling of that portion of his suit jacket, or a wrinkle in the fabric."
Campaign and White House officials said the bulge was definitely not a receiver.
I think Gordon's living in the same land of delusion that Bush lives in.
And I suspect that land is located in his parents' basement.
That was it!
The last test for Senator Kerry to pass. At the first debate he had to prove he was presidential and indeed he was.
It was a bonus that this week Senator Edwards had to go mano-a-mano with Senor Gravitas to prove he was fit to be second in command - and he more than held his own forcing Senor Gravitas to lie muchos. It goes into the win column.
And lastly Kerry had to connect with the people in the room in the town hall format make his points, debunk the spin, be warm and thoughtful, all the while looking Presidential. He did admirably.
He's the man!
Atrios was wrong! (re: "Debate Prep the 2nd")
I am so glad Atrios was wrong on his latest prediction/belief of how Kerry would/should act: Kerry didn't ignore/back off Bush and let him hang by his own rope but instead attacked and kept Bush off guard and THEN let Bush hang by his own rope. (ok, Atrios did say "if Bush throws another punch Kerry can consider pummeling him" etc.)
Atrios was right!
Kerry definitely acted Presidential. He definitely came across as respectful and sympathetic to me (ok, maybe a little forceful..).
Also? I am appreciating that Kerry doesn't go all out and defend his record from the lies coming from Bush because he then can make time to say focused on Bush's record and not his own.
It's Horsey in the Seattle P-I.
Lost the image, it's a great political cartoon on flip-flopping.
While Pres. Bush performed somewhat better in this debate, he still strikes me as a snake-oil salesman, or a traveling revivalist after giving the closing sermon and packing up his bus to leave town...with the towns money. 'Pubs gonna be bailing on Bush big time now !
OT, but this is just too fucking crazy to let slide...
Genial, wildly over-rated David Brooks is in full wingnut mode in his latest NYT column on the Duelfer Report. Based on the report that shows Saddam to have been a defanged tyrant driven by fantasies and bluffs, little David tells us that the Iraqi dictator was "on the verge of greatness."
Now I understand how Brooks can arrive at the equally bizarre conclusion that GWB deserves to be relected as our Commander in Chief. Anyone who believes - or asserts - that Saddam was "on the verge of greatness" - especially in the light of the Duelfer Report - has set the leadership bar about as low as it can go.
Kerry rocked, indeed! Bush could not have looked more idiotic if he planned it. No matter how much the Bush team tried to force the smirk off him, he couldn't pull it off.
Bush was pure gold, in that he played into every Kerry dream of Bu$h as a clueless, wingnut laugh a minute fool.
Well done, at last Bu$h, well done!
Dear Lynne
I just wanted to thank you for posting your email.
What gets lost amongst all us wonks is the human aspect and impact of policies. GWB could have governed from the centre, spread the tax cuts more evenly, avoided the whole gay marriage debacle, come up with a more moderate plan to help small businesses with healthcare and retired people with drugs, bowed to international pressure on Iraq. This is more or less what Ronald Reagan did do, and it allowed him to survive Iran-Contra.
But Bush chose not to, to shore up his political 'base'. And now, politically, he is paying the price.
Thank you for bringing the debate out of the clouds and rabid partisanship to ordinary concerns of ordinary citizens and small business owners.
John
No, sorry, but Bush was far far worse than he was last time. Atrios is becoming a typical media whore just like the rest of them, right before our eyes.
Anyone see the campaign sign war while Karen Hughes was spinning the outcome? I didn't hear a single word she said because I was laughing the whole time.
I'm just sick of being talked to like a scolded child by Bush. Talk to me like the informed adult citizen of the Republic that I am.
ABCNEWS..."Friday night, 77 percent of Democrats called Kerry the winner and an identical 77 percent of Republicans said Bush won. Independents divided by 44 percent to 34 percent between Kerry and Bush — within the margin of sampling error for the number of independents surveyed."
If this is any indication of the trend among independents viewing this debate, Bush is road kill. If Kerry picks up two points after this one, and another point or two after the next one, it's in the bag. The likelihood is that Bush will look even weaker next week on the domestic stuff than he did tonight.
it's the unfortunate nature of these debates that if Bush merely shows up and give some indication of sentient life, that the right will claim a victory. However, if the higher standard of content is applied, it's pretty clear that Kerry won this debate. He kept his composure throughout, whereas Bush was prone to yelling and seemed edgy. Kerry just did a more competent job overall.
I couldn't help but recall Bush in his debates against Gore in 2000. Bush was relaxed, because expectations were low and he had nothing to lose. Now, the presidency is at stake and he seems to be panicking in a big way.
Did anyone else notice that Bush smiled, smirked and clearly *winked* cavalierly while Kerry was talking about securing nuclear materials in Russia in order to protect the U.S. against nuclear terrorism. Does he really believe that the prospect of millions of americans getting blown to smithereens is winkworthy?
Did anyone else notice that Bush smiled, smirked and clearly *winked* cavalierly while Kerry was talking about securing nuclear materials in Russia in order to protect the U.S. against nuclear terrorism. Does he really believe that the prospect of millions of americans getting blown to smithereens is winkworthy?
does anyone still believe that bush will be re-elected? in fact what we are seeing is the equivalent of hitler's last days. and since its happening in america, it is being played out in the open rather than in an underground bunker
JFK won this debate, too. It's now two for two. Hope he's got the best Secret Service agents around him now instead of those who guarded JFK back in the 60s. History does repeat itself...
next time bush trots out that: "Quit denigrating the sacrifice of Poland" BS I want to hear Kerry go on the attack, but good.
"No mr. resident, I'm not denigrating anybody. But the American people know they are the ones paying for this war, and they know it is our American sons and daughters dying in a foreign land. Do you really believe that Poland or Uzbeckistan’s sacrifice in young men and women is the same as ours? Do you really think that the impact on Poland’s economy for the costs of war are the same as ours? You and your administration need to come out of your fantasy world and realize that it’s our people dying over there"
Camera Angles
There has been a lot of discussion about how the split screen camera angles worked against
George Bush in the first debate. In the second debate, people seem to think that this
disadvantage was not as extreme, as close-ups of Bush’s face were not as common and
devastating. I think the camera angles in the second debate were, in their own way,
just as devastating. When Bush was speaking, he seemed to purposefully walk right in
front of Kerry, in order to obscure him. Instead, this maneuver, actually highlighted
the height difference between the two. The top of Bush’s head was always just
below Kerry’s neck. When Kerry spoke, he did not stand right in front of Bush,
instead he stood just to the side, so that his hand was always in the split-screen
shot of Bush. This hand seemed sometimes to point accusingly at Bush and other times seemed
sometime to frame his face, as if to pull it around, and say “See here, look at this audience.”
“See the people in this audience.” The decisions you make directly affect them, so, take care.”
I have to agree with the original post after watching the debate again on c-span. I caught it first at the Michael Moore appearance at the U of M (which was entertaining, complete with the 'illegal' prizes), but we were all too rowdy to hear everything. Listening carefully again, I'm struck by how Kerry fought from start to finish. He was tougher than the last time, and I think he hit Bush harder.
Note some of those people in the background. You can tell that they are tiring of Bush. Bush certainly seemed much angrier this time, almost frustrated at having to even answer questions. But, then again, are we really surprised? And what was with that rant against Charlie Gibson?
I've thought it over a bit, and I think this race is just about over. By this time next week, we'll be seeing some real movement in the polls. Which leads us to the October Surprise.....stay tuned.....
The jaw-working, the facial contortions, the rapid blinking,...
Tardive dyskinesia is an occasional side-effect of Haldol, the same psychotropic drug W's father uses.
I'm convinced Bush was on uppers for this debate and he was on downers for the first debate. For the third debate they will have found the perfect combination of the two. I tried not to watch but had family who commandeered all the tv's. He is a pathetic asshole and I can't stand the sight of the man. And the spinning afterwards was even less tolerable than the debates. I can't wait for Nov 2.
"Internets"... I love it.
(""mistakes? did she just say mistakes? I don't make mistakes") --oh, I'll just go on and on about "tough decisions."
That wasn't the only moment I shouted 'answer the fucking question!!!'
His arrogance was pretty evident throughout. He was lecturing the
crowd... his subjects. He treats whomever he thinks he's addressing like some slightly slow child incapable of understanding duckspeak and doublethink.
Gallup chose those people anyway. There had to be some ringers...
Late thoughts from Europe. Y'll were alseep when I was laughing & shouting at my TV this morning (CNN Internat'l rebroadcast).
1. Can't we get somewhere on the bulge in the jacket? Is this gonna stay under the radar, or what?
2. More generally, I thought Bush was strange as usual, keeping his hectoring tone - remember when was explaining to Iraqis what they had to understand? Maybe he thinks he's some kind of preacher. Like others, I got a strong impression of snake-oil salesman - right out of the western he is cast in. Remember that there were few if any real cowboys in Hollywood westerns. Few stuntmen maybe.
2. There were too many revealing lapses - I'd hafta see it again & take notes - but as I waited, sure enough his first "uhh" was on the word... intelligence. And all sorts of dramatic & unintentially ironic statements. At the end he even cried out something about 'reality'!
3. Amazing moments. High geopoltical tragicomedy.
Maybe I can see how some would think Bush won. He is obviously an idiot, and immature, but ... he was sure CONFIDENT about it.
I think Kerry could have sealed the deal but failed to do so. He was not as smooth as he was in the first debate. He missed some easy openings left by Bush. He should have commented on the Supreme Court comment by Bush about how they voted for him. In particular, I didn’t like Kerry’s answer to the last question posed to Bush about the 3 mistakes. Kerry should have rebutted by saying that it was an easy question but Bush refuses to acknowledge any mistakes he has made. That’s a sign of a poor leader. Then Kerry should have mentioned rushing to invade Iraq, Tora Bora, and tax cuts for the wealthy. Kerry should have ended by saying that Bush just said he is not going to mention names of people he has appointed that he’s not happy with so as to not hurt their feelings. Well a real leader would fire these people. The concern of the country should be over and above the concern for his friends’ feelings. Kerry should have ended by saying that he would have fired Rummy, Ashcroft, and Condi for their sheer incompetence.
Kerry needs to listen for stupid statements from Bush and jump on him like ugly on ape.
Bush did better than last time but that’s not saying much. I feel that he has the curse of Al Gore. He emulated Gore in his first debate last week. He did it again last night with his arrogance and the way he walked all over Charlie Gibson. Karma is beautiful.
By the way, Kerry needs to mention that the DOW is lower today than when Bush took office. This is a critical point.
Joe Vecchio -
Tanks for the Tankity-Tank-Tank - awesome!
yeah, I gotta buy me some wood to put in the backa my off-road diesel. When I git back, I'm gonna check out the internets for more stuff on them wetlands... You know thare up by 3 million.
Hold on... I GOTTA ANSWER THIS...
Hold on... I'M TRYIN TO DECIFER THIS...
[now a word from our sponsor]
imbecile
adj : having a mental age of three to seven years [syn: imbecilic, idiotic] n : a person of subnormal intelligence [syn: idiot, cretin, moron, changeling, half-wit, retard]
Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University
isbushwired.com
Stay on it. Now. Within week it'll be yesterday's news.
Now end of Round 5 out of 10. Kerry building a lead on points.
Say hello to Karl Rove and gay marriage and creed (not the band). Only a fool would think it's over. Only a fool wouldn't be setting up for the last rounds.
It's the ads, stupid. Senor Sasso gonna half to earn money to stay on message. Respond to the negative as hard as Kerry/Edwards went in the debate (some Condi testimony --Wasn't the name of the Report 'Bin Ladne planning to Attack -- ; foreign voice (but dont offend Michigan) at the call center with graphics [first pres to lose jobs] -- and ovrdub by JFK -- [the difference between us is they believe outsourcing is OK. We believe in America].
But easy on the goat (and foreign policy overall)-- GOP waiting for opportunity to counterattack based on tone. Talk about cost of home heating oil.
Rove is going to construct ads state by state. For example, personal attacks on gay marriage combined with photos of MacGreevey in NJ.
GOP don't give up this sht willingly. Especially when a loss means marginalization.
Sasso got to walk line. Every debate win slighlty expands Sasso margin of error against Rove
Kerry was brilliant.
His answer to that silly "taxes paying for abortions" question (hey, come to think of it, paying for federal executions and wars violates MY spiritual beliefs ... ) was wonderful: sensitive, personal, well-reasoned, constitutional,
respectful. It was moving, actually, as was the prospect of having a predident again that could engage in higher cognitive processes and speak gracefully.
Bush's answer ?
He couldn't "decipher" it.
Nedra Pickler's AP so-called objective reportage ? Kerry's answer was "long and rambling."
What is it about republicans and complexity ?
Kerry was brilliant.
I thought Kerry did well but I was disappointed in his answers on the environment, which did not include an explanation of Clear Skies to rebut Bush's claim that the air is cleaner. It isn't; they've lowered air quality standards to make it look that way...
-Liz-
Yeah, I have to agree. The thing is Kerry should have done better about explaining. I believe the most "undecideds" must be woefully uninformed. He ought to have dumbed down his explanations, or taken apart Bushs' statements.
Explain with examples. When he DID do this, like on the notification of parents in abortion...by pointing out that a 16-year old victim of incest shouldn't have to have the father (who raped her) notified if she is going for abortion really hit the mark.
When Bush, several times crowed about creating 1.9 million jobs, Kerry should have carefully explained how this is job loss, NOT creation. I think he could easily have done it.
But I caught the debate somwhere after it started so I may have missed him doing that.
Same with unemployment, should have gone into the fact that people "fall off" the end, when they run out of benefits and that it is a deceptive number.
Or hammered him on the environment questions too. Bring up arsenic...
Should also have brought up that Bush thought it was cute to pretend to look for WMD under his desk, etc, when he had that slide show. That was truly despicable, and could have unnerved Bush.
Still...Bush did better than the last one, but Kerry did MUCH better too.
As a diehard Red Sox fan, I wonder just what Kerry is implying? That Red Sox fans are out of touch with reality? :p
Don Corleone,
Kerry's a diehard Red Sox fan himself. I believe that was a self-deprecating joke.
And, as one myself, let me just say that David Ortiz rocks!
Remember Bush is a known quantity. The debate was a forum for Kerry to exhibit his presidentiality, which he did beautifully.
I like this comment I read on a real site:
KERRY LOOKED LIKE LURCH BY THE END OF THE DEBATE
HE SHUFFLED ABOUT LIKE AN ORANGATANG WITH ARTHRITIS.
HIS BODY LANGUAGE EXUDED DEFEAT. I WATCHED THE DEBATE WITH A NUMBER OF WOMEN AND ALL WERE TURNED OFF BY LURCH'S NEGATIVITY AND AGGRESSIVE ATTACK ON
BUSH. I THINK THIS DEBATE HAS DEALT A MORTAL BLOW TO
LURCH'S CHANCES TO INSINUATE HIMSELF INTO THE OVAL OFFICE.
Funny, on the radio, it wasn't 2000% lopsided.
You couldn't see the strutting.
Or the preening.
Or the blinking.
You could probably hear Bush's shouting down anyone who happened to have the floor when he decided he wanted to talk.
The scary part is that there are millions of people in this country who want their preznit to act this way.
I like this comment I read on a real site:
KERRY LOOKED LIKE LURCH BY THE END OF THE DEBATE
jesus christ, you asshole, get a life.
Kerry looked like Lurch at the BEGINNING of the debate. By the end, Bush had made such an embarrassing spectacle of himself that it was difficult for Kerry not to look like the 1976 Jimmy Carter.
I just got done reading the article on the ABC site that was linked from here and that referenced undecided voters.
Egads what a bunch of fucking idiots. How can they even say with a straight face they don't have enough information to make a decision and that the debates aren't helping e.g. Kerry has a plan, but what is it? Why do they need to be spoon fed?
I'm convinced these people are retarded on some level (mentally, socially). There's just too much information out there not to be able to say these are my personal values and they match up best with candidate A or candidate B.
Are people reallly this conflicted? Do they know themselves so little, understand their values so little that they can't reach a decision?
Damn I'm pissed off at undecideds and I'm definitely pissed off about hearing about their undecidedness.
This shows not only that he lied, but that he's out of touch - even with himself.
Hm. I'm kinda leaning to the idea of Bush being out of touch with himself as a good thing. The thought of him doing anything with the monkey, including spanking it, turns my stomach. If nothing else, the world would be a lot better off if there wasn't one Bush sperm on the loose.
Bush's distortions on Kerry have started distorted themselves. Just like Rummy when he said "Saddam, wherever he is, is hiding in a cave somewhere in Afghanastan." (He meant Osama).
Last night Bush said, "Kerry first voted against the 87 billion before he voted for it."
Bush's distortions on Kerry have started distorted themselves. Just like Rummy when he said "Saddam, wherever he is, is hiding in a cave somewhere in Afghanastan." (He meant Osama).
Last night Bush said, "Kerry first voted against the 87 billion before he voted for it."
This is a little late, but get well soon Woot!
I wonder how hard it is to train seeing-eye boobies...
Here's an article that gives points that Kerry could have done much better on:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2107963/
I haven't seen anyone point this out, but the one really grating moment from Kerry came when he talked about rolling back tax cuts for those earning more than $200K. He said that no one in this hall would be affected besides himself, GWM and Gibson. I found that a bit patronizing and I'm surprised it hasn't been picked up.
Kregg, so you suggest the (possibly!) 3 or 4 people in attendance making more than $200,000/yr. stand up and only support Kerry's overall point?
It hasn't been picked up, probably because 6-figure media types have a tough sell if they want to argue that keeping tax cuts for themselves to drive up the debt in a time of war is a good idea.
Especially when the first tax cuts have decreased the net number of jobs in this country.
Kerry needs to do a better job with medical liability issues -- the first thing he should have said when asked about frivelous lawsuits and medical costs would have been something like 'if your husband were paralyzed by a doctor's negligence -- if your baby grew up mentally handicapped because of a doctor's negligence -- if someone gave your daughter a drug she was allergic to and it killed her -- wouldyou think a lawsuit was frivelous?
Who stands up for the little person against the corporation if not the trial lawyer
THEN fix the problem -- but don't acknowledge that it is a 'problem' on GOP terms -- we all know that the biggest problem with malpractice is that there is too much of it and it is mostly uncompensated.
I see DUMBya is back in front of a multitude of his braindead followers today.
I love when he thinks he's witty. And those assholes laugh at his pathetic attempts at humour.
He did not give one straight answer in that debate last night. He talked in circles, tried to be "cute", attacked Big John, and basically said nothing worth hearing.
Bush is an asshole, and anyone who votes for Bush is an even bigger asshole. Two kinds of people vote for Bush: millionaires and morons....and not ALL millionaires like him.
"MSNBC: Why is Ron Silver worthy of commentary??? What makes him qualified to be a pundit??? Hello? Isn't this just another vain, self-important Hollywood actor spouting off??? Ron Silver's opinion is national TV newsworthy, but Alec Baldwin or Susan Sarandon are just full of themselves?! Fuck that."
When's the last time Ron Silver did anything worth paying money to see? Ron Silver is one of these "Israel, Israel, Israel" freaks like Ed Koch.
Yo, Ron - you live in America. If you're so concerned about fucking Israel, go LIVE in Israel.
Why is it that is's the stupid, the no-talents, the wanna-bes or the has-beens are the ones supporting DUMBya?
WHY were both of the women who got to ask questions these anti-choice dipshits?
One looked like the fucking Church Lady, the other looked like she belongs to "Future Nuns of America".
Why were there no pro-choice women there?
"KERRY LOOKED LIKE LURCH BY THE END OF THE DEBATE"
Are we running a beauty contest or a presidential election?
This kind of shit makes me embarrassed to be an American.
Incidentally, I think Senator Kerry is attractive. When you look in THOSE eyes, you can see an actual WORKING brain behind them.
All Bush makes me want to do is slap the shit out of him for being so fucking stupid and arrogant.
I WATCHED THE DEBATE WITH A NUMBER OF WOMEN AND ALL WERE TURNED OFF BY LURCH'S NEGATIVITY AND AGGRESSIVE ATTACK ON
BUSH.
Typical 'winger logic: "I [saw/met/heard of] a [woman/member of some ethnic or religious group/former resident of some region or country] who said or did something that confirms whatever dumb-ass preconception I started out with. Ergo, ALL of them are like that."
Ever hear of the "gender gap" in the polls? Most women prefer Kerry.
As for the more attractive candidate . . . "Anybody want some wood?" is about as seductive as Bush gets. And after a twenty-year bender, it's about all he's capable of.
Didn't Bush look taller also? Was he wearing lifts?
How about the questioner who asked Bush to name 3 of his mistakes--wasn't she a woman?
Gore Lawsuit Challenges Australian Election Results
(2004-10-09) -- Just hours after the polls closed across Australia, and Prime Minister John Howard headed for his fourth term, former U.S. Vice President Al Gore filed a lawsuit in international court at the Hague alleging "irregularities" in the balloting.
The election was seen by many as a referendum on Australia's participation in Operation Iraqi Freedom and the subsequent efforts to bring democracy to Iraq. Mr. Howard's opponent, Mark Latham, had promised to withdraw Australian troops from the Coalition.
"Somebody was disenfranchised or coerced down under," said Mr. Gore, now an itinerant professor. "John Howard betrayed his country. He played on their fears. There's no way they could have re-elected him legally. We'll fight this result all the way to the U.N. Security Council if need be."
Democrat presidential contender John Forbes Kerry expressed displeasure at the Australian election outcome.
"This is the wrong election result, in the wrong place at the wrong time," Mr. Kerry said. "Think of the precedent this sets."
A movie theater next to an Afghan restaurant in the Little Kabul area of Fremont, Calif., displays a sign thanking President Bush for the elections in Afghanistan.
Terry, I just watched the video on C-Span and I counted 10 women questioners. I don't know who looked nunnish or like a church lady to you, but most of the women didn't seem to fit those descriptions at all--to me at least. And even the two "pro-life" women (who I suppose may have appeared to you as nunnish or churchy) were quite attractive.
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