I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
first
frist
Priceless Free Republic post on their debate live thread:
To: andrew1957
Pray that the Lord give W a sharp and quick mind. Let the Lord put the words on his lips that America needs and wants to hear.
253 posted on 10/08/2004 6:03:54 PM PDT by GarySpFc (Sneakypete, De Oppresso Liber)
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frist
Make no mistake,the media is proving themselves to have a direct intrest in getting junior elected.
After all they are some of those that are making more than 200 k per year.
"Of Course" is the dead giveaway. The Post's Froomkin had an interesting column on this little verbal tic yesterday. W uses it before a lie.
Well if you go to CNN's fact checking for last night's debate, it dings Kerry for saying Shinseki was fired. It also does not mention at all the $84 timber small business statement, implying Bush was correct to be starled at the claim. I predict the word, News, as in News Media, will in the near future come to mean "tolerable lies plus a recent scandal or two".
Re: the media.
Were they watching the same debate I was watching. I think the Chimp got his ass handed to him WORSE than the first time. I mean, Kerry lectured him like an errant schoolchild, addressing him directly for the first time.
Kicked-his-ass.
And it's called a draw?
You're damned fuckin right the media have proven they have a direct interest in getting him elected. If the election is close enough, after all, then they can pull the same kind of shenanigans they did in 2000.
Infuriating and - yes, unfuckingbelievable.
let's just say that I'm one of those that will be affected by Kerry's tax plan.
I understand the costs of the social structure we have here in the U.S. and I'm happy to give back to it.
without good schools, roads and oh yeah, military, this country would not be where it is.
it boggles my mind that people bite the tired line of taxes being evil (until THEY need the services that they hate so much...)
$
Bush has a real anger management problem. I'm not at all surprised none of his generals were willing to "look him in the eye" and say "No, sir; you haven't given us enough troops." He'd have flown into a rage and fired them all on the spot.
Of course, I listened to our generals. That's what a president does. A president tests the strategy and relies upon good military people to execute that strategy.
And if Iraq is all fucked up, it's their fault. C'mon, this is hard work!
http://securitymomsforkerry.com/
Please visit and help to spread the word about this site. Linik to it form your blogs, sites, forums, etc.
Thank you!
Bu$h is a weasling bastard.
Did we ever find out whether he was wired in the frist debate?
Why are the internets so quiet on the subject?
Do you really think the "macaroon in cheif" nows any pertinent questions to ask anyone?
what a president DOESN'T do is continually pass the buck. That's cowardice not leadership.
did we ever find out what crime bush committed in the azores?
my k keeps sticking...thats KNOWS!
Need some wood?
If every single ReThuglican is not out ripping their B/C stickers off their car and destroying their yard signs, they should be deeply ashamed.
Line Kerry should say:
"This president is willing to ask the working people of this country to sacrifice their sons and daughters for this war, but he is not willing to ask the wealthy of this country to sacrifice a fraction of their income in order to pay for this war. This shows more than anything else where this President's priorities lie."
So, let me get this straight, the Big Three networks won't allow ads for F 9-11 on their news programs, but Sinclair, which owns affiliate stations covering all the major networks in FORTY freaking markets, can show an anti-Kerry propaganga film just before the election? Un-freaking-believable.
ot: occupied elections.
when was the last time the CIA was in a country and the national elections were fair?
in afghanistan, each voter's cuticle was marked with ink to prevent serial voting. the problem? the ink was not indelible.
in iraq, the census has been abandoned. people will vote by presenting a ration card. there will no registration.
Let the Lord put the words on his lips "I screwed up the war on terror bigtime. We shouldn't have invaded Iraq. I am not fit to be President. I am no longer a candidate."
"This American Life" is starting on my local NPR station. Sounds like it's gonna be an hour slamming the maladministration on Iraq.
Casey has it right.
Bush has a real anger management problem. I'm not at all surprised none of his generals were willing to "look him in the eye" and say "No, sir; you haven't given us enough troops." He'd have flown into a rage and fired them all on the spot.
After Rummy and Wolfie publically criticized Shinseki, the Generals got the message. "Don't ask for more troops."
Yeah, I'm sure that the generals were real willing to contradict a boss who goes around with a humungous hair up his ass.
This ill-tempered twit is everybody's nightmare boss, who only accepts yes for an answer then blames everybody else when yes was the wrong answer.
He's right when he's right, and he's right when he's wrong.
Don't you just love sharing a beer with guys like that?
This historian keeps having wistful thoughts - what if Shrub had had George Marshall in that basement room? What if Shrub had played soldier with General Eisenhower, making those durn tactical decisions like he did?
What if he had some modicum of training in military science? What if he had ever read a book?
There I go again.
During last night's debate, Bush seemed to be high on something that resembled the classic yuppie coke high: somewhere between extreme animation and belligerance.
Unbefuckinglievable.
It will be a good thing if the Bushistas try to steal the election. The CIA and the military will both be against them. That way, maybe the media whores can be taken down too.
when was the last time the CIA was in a country and the national elections were fair?
Oh you so cynical person!
OT, George Tenet has just been appointed Florida director of central voting. His entire opening address consisted of:
"Look Jeb, Slam Dunk!"
Not only did they fire Shinseki, but the Washington Post reports:
In that 2002 White House meeting, Gen. Tommy R. Franks, whom Bush mentioned, said there were enough troops, but Shinseki told the president there were not. Other senior members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff told Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld that they were concerned about troop levels.The only Bush I’d believe is one that’s burning.
Google the word "PETULANT"
Let's make this stick!
I need another fix,I feel so withdrawn.
Can anybody help?
Not only did they fire Shinseki, but the Washington Post reports:
In that 2002 White House meeting, Gen. Tommy R. Franks, whom Bush mentioned, said there were enough troops, but Shinseki told the president there were not. Other senior members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff told Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld that they were concerned about troop levels.The only Bush I’d believe is one that’s burning.
Junior lost this debate,and the polls peove it.
Just like Cheney before him,he just threw out lies and hoped there was too many to debunk.
Sad,how our democracy is being led astray on lies and our talking heads allow it.I cannot stand watching the cable news outlets anymore.I think even after the election I will be boycotting them.
This line of Bush's always kills me. As if every single one of those generals didn't understand that it would be career suicide to tell Bush something that he didn't want to hear.
How can you look the Chimp in the eye?
It's like trying to leash a housefly.
His stupid-assed stare
Is directed elsewhere.
Perhaps at his guy in the sky.
Now the Times is picking up the story about Bush possibly being wired in the first debate.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/0...gn/
09bulge.html
"Poland, tell them he forgot Poland!!! Rove out."
Yeah, when he said that, I wondered: wasn't it obvious what happens to those who disagree with the beliefs of this Administration?
Couldn't it be that you've insisted on yes-men, and that's all you get is the answer you want to hear?
Rumsfeld, after all, insisted on low troop deployment. And in answer to the question about North Korea, Bush insisted against the evidence in Iraq that "advanced weapons" made troop strength in Korea unnecessary.
Hell, we've got those "advanced weapons" in Iraq. Fat lot of good they're doing restoring civil order there.
Worst. President. Ever.
Wolcott's got wood.
Eardrum Abuse
Posted by James Wolcott
"Near the end of the comedy Soapdish, if memory serves, a flamboyant soap opera star who has slid down the fame spiral is reduced to performing a dinner theater production of Death of a Salesman. As he belts out Arthur Miller's dialogue as it were his ticket to a career comeback, a woman trying to chew her meal squawks with irritation, 'What's with the yelling?'"
"That is a question that will be echoed by millions of Americans tonight watching President Bush's Pagliacci performance. It's one thing to cut off your opponent, but to cut off Charlie Gibson in mid-question, holler at the audience, and heave your shoulders with laughter at your own weak jests--this doesn't strike me as a good gameplan to convince swing voters of your sanity."
"My provisional opinion, contingent upon no unforseen events altering the current dynamics (i.e, a meteor crashing through the ceiling of the auditorium), is that Kerry is grinding Bush into such fine pencil shavings that even Peggy Noonan will not be able to sweep him up and make him whole."
Look, people! The "WOOD COMPANY" bit was a brilliant brilliant brilliant ploy by the Kerry camp.
BushCo has tried to define Kerry as the rich liberal effete. Now, all those hard working (really) people out there will say, "This guy is SOOOOOOOO rich he don't even know how much he owns!"
And they won't mean Kerry no more.
Brill(effing)iant !
Major strategic (or is it tactical?) victory for our side.
"A presidenttests the strategy and relies upon good military people to execute that strategy." (emphasis added)
WTF does "testing" a strategy mean?
i just hope it isn't a "global" test
Why in the world would it be strapped to his back? Couldn't it have been strapped to his leg, or in his pocket, and nobody would have ever seen it?
bizarre.
Quick question--
My little brother, who is studying overseas right now, requested an absentee ballot a while ago. He hasn't received anything yet, so he called the local Board of Elections this week to make sure they'd received his request. They said they had him on their list but they had not received the ballots to send out yet.
Now, those of you who know me here know that I am not a member of the "tinfoil hat" crowd, but stuff like this is starting to make me a little nervous. Can someone assure me that some states do send out the absentee ballots around this time--that it's not that late? Or is this really unusual?
By the way, we live in a state where Bush has absolutely no chance of winning (if he won, you'd *know* the election had been fixed) but, still, every vote is important.
"Why in the world would it be strapped to his back?"
-underwhelm
Obviously you know nothing about puppetry
A presidenttests the strategy and relies upon good military people to execute that strategy." (emphasis added)
WTF does "testing" a strategy mean?
GWB has always had a problem with tests of any kind. So here is another flip flop-no global test for Kerry. But I will test my strategy my killing, oh say 13,000 innocents who aren't of European descent.
Of course the generals told Bush they had enough troops "for the plan," because they didn't plan on anything more than beating Saddam's rag-tag army, bombing a bunch of cities, and securing the oil fields. No plan for keeping the peace, so of course no troops were needed for it.
Simple, when you get down to it (or him, to tell the truth).
Ed
Shame on you Eschaton nay-sayers! The US had all the troops that it needed in Iraq;
1.) The war was won easily; Because in order to defeat Saddam Hussein, who we knew was armed to the teeth with WMD, hordes of Al Qaeda suicide bombers and so forth, we only needed a small number of US... um... no wait, forget I mentioned that. No, no, I said forget I mentioned that! Stop looking at the Combat Operations phase of the war right now! We won, that's all you need to know!
2.) Now... After the war, we could rely upon the former Iraqi Army, who would help us rebuild their country. Flowers and kisses, remember? Except we disbanded that army, making hundreds of thousands of people (and their guns) unemployed, and then proceeded to loot the country instead of rebuilding it. Ow! My own foot again! Shut up! Shut up! Cut my mic...!
*shuts self up*
I notice that Bush did the same thing to Tommy Franks that he earlier did to George Tenet. He asked for confirmation that he made the right decision long after the point where a "No" would have done the USA any good.
Tenet was asked about "Does Iraq have any WMD?" several months after Bush had been making scary speeches to the whole world.
He asked Franks "Do we have enough troops?" on the very day the invasion began.
Yeah, sure. I can see either one of them saying "Why no, sir. We're up a creek without a paddle." Yuh. Real likely.
Dave in NYC,
Check with your Board of Elections.
http://tinyurl.com/695fp
to respond yo Dave in NYC:
actually, most places haven't sent them out yet. There's a huge amount of legal paperwork to do before they send them out.
I got my absentee 2 weeks ago, but I applied way back in August. People who applied in the last month won't likely get one for another week or so.
Can someone assure me that some states do send out the absentee ballots around this time--that it's not that late? Or is this really unusual?
I voted for Kerry last night during the debate on my absentee.
I was quite proud to do so at the moment Chimpy lost it on Gibby. mrs. joby told me I could not vote twice, much to my chagrin.....
$
If he wasn't such a huge disaster in the first debate the wired theory would seem more plausible.
let's just say that I'm one of those that will be affected by Kerry's tax plan.
Loved it when Kerry called out Gibson as among those whom he would require to pay more taxes.
We did have plenty of soldier for the war. But we didn't win the peace. Bush's plan is therefore to retrain the Iraqi military, and then declare war on them. His strategy testing is a Bush 41 - 43 plan to get the war for Iraq in a gigantic DO...WHILE loop.
The response to this from Kerry was the defining moment of the debate.
During last night's debate, Bush seemed to be high on something that resembled the classic yuppie coke high: somewhere between extreme animation and belligerance.
Cmdr. Dufu
The difference between the last debate and this one was that Bu$h had obviously had his go-pills before he went on stage.
I agree that this was one of the worst moments in presidential behavior that I've ever seen and I'm brining it up in all the letters taht I write. If the president truly got bad advice from his commanders that lead to the problems we have now, those commanders should long since have been dismissed. For the president to be up there in a public forum saying that the problem was with the generals, is in any case, utterly inappropriate for a commander-in-chief. Furthermore, GWB was not even sharing the blame, he was placing it firmly on the shoulders of others. This is just awful.
W=wired!
Yeah, I know. That's how I took it too when Bush said he asked the generals eye to eye if they had all the troops and equipment they needed. He was blaming them.
OT: Check out this post at Kos about the Sinclair Campaign Ad
http://tinyurl.com/6br5h
OT:
Could someone help me out here?
Bush owned an interest in a timber co., and didn't he promote the healthy forest
intiative that called for cutting down healthy trees to prevent forest fires?
isn't that a conflict of interest?
OT:
Q President Bush, 45 days after 9/11, Congress passed the Patriot Act, which takes away checks on law enforcement, weakens American citizens' rights and freedoms, especially Fourth Amendment rights. With expansions of the Patriot Act and Patriot Act II, my question to you is, why are my rights being watered down and my citizens around me, and what are the specific justifications for these reforms?
boy king: ... I really don't think your rights are being watered down. ... I hope you don't think that. ... And so I don't think the Patriot Act abridges your rights at all. ...
Don't trust your own experience; trust your boy king.
...is in any case, utterly inappropriate for a commander-in-chief. Furthermore, GWB was not even sharing the blame, he was placing it firmly on the shoulders of others. This is just awful.
how's this for a new meme:
Kerry at some point during the next debate responds directly to Bush and says " Mr. President, perhaps you don't understand what the buck stops here means. It means, as the President, the responsibility for your military commanders under your orders is squarley upon your shoulders. My point to America: I'm prepared to shoulder that burden."
$
To sum up his debate points, Bush blames military and CIA for his own failures. At the same time he can't think of one major mistake he's made but takes credit for no terrorist attacks (in the US that is) since 9-11. Oh, and he's been good for the environment and isn't responcible for the deficits.
All I can say it I hope he actually doesn't believe this crap. Because if he does, he is TRULY delusional....
The NEW G.O.P. Car Magnet.
Support our President, Blame our Troops
Speaking of the Military and bombs...
Billmon (back from the dead): "If Kerry and the Dems can't make an issue out of the fact that the president of the United States is utterly incapable of controlling his hairtrigger temper, they don't deserve to win this election... I mean, the man is a walking time bomb."
So if generals are always right, then I guess Lincoln was just wrong to fire McClellan? And Truman was just wrong to fire MacArthur?
It's always someone else's fault with Bush. He's unable to act like an adult. Shame on us that he's the president of this country.
I listened to the debate on the radio and all through his shrill responses and herky jerky speech patterns I was thinking, oh man, this guy has got to go.
This just in:
Bulge under Bush's jacket was a corset. Bush's man-breasts needed some support, and his stomach was hanging out a bit to far for a war president, so they strapped him up tight for the debates.
Manzierre (tm) by Maidenform.
Melanie,
You're dead on about Bush's tell. I've taken Froomkin's advice to watch for this, and he lied everytime after he said "of course."
You can find them listed here.
But the administration didn't force General Shinseki to retire. In fact, The Washington Times reported Shinseki's plans to retire nearly a year before his Feb. 25, 2003 testimony. The Times article was published April 19, 2002:
Washington Times: He (Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld) and Army Secretary Thomas White have settled on Gen. John M. Keane, Army deputy chief of staff, to succeed the current chief, Gen. Eric Shinseki. Gen. Shinseki does not retire for more than a year. Sources offer differing reasons for the early selection.
There was some truth to Kerry's comment, however. According to the Oct. 9 Washington Post , the story of Shinseki's replacement was leaked "in revenge" for Shinseki's position on troop requirements, which he was already expressing in private. By naming a replacement 14 months early, the Post said Pentagon leakers effectively undercut Shinseki's authority. And as it turned out, Keane never actually took the job, reportedly turning it down for family reasons to retire in Oct. 2003.
http://factcheck.org/
article.asp...@docID=275.html
Keep the lies going for me, Duncan!
I said from the beginning that Bush would end up blaming his failures on the military.
So the generals went along to get along. What strength of character, what a tender concern for the soldiers under their command! Now their names will be indelibly linked to war crimes and failure.
Brings to mind another megalomaniacal leader who had trouble with his General Staff - all that's missing is a funny little mustache.
-
Everything is so convoluted with this administration but I think the key point is that the generals were right that they had enough troops to win the war but not enough to secure the peace which would have been clearly the Bush administration's fault.
Bush is some sort of hybrid, a cross between Ross Perot and Idi Amin.
You're the President, on the eve of war.
You have a last minute meeting with generals and aides after months of preparation, and during the meeting you ask the question, do you guys have everything you need?
-stay with me here-
A general stands up and says, "sir, I'm confident we can easily rout the Iraqi military and take Baghdad quickly, but I believe the postwar planning is inaccurate and we need MORE THAN DOUBLE the amount of troops we have available to us now."
-This would be an immediate career ender for any General, and to ask this THE DAY you commit troops is a rhetorical question at best and at worst, a pass the buck moment that can be used later if you're running for re-election and things have gone sour.
Hee--stupid troll doesn't realize that what he posted only supports Atrios' statement.
Hee--stupid troll doesn't realize that what he posted only supports Atrios' statement.
grr
Poor diet of eating only Cheetos for the last four years has made them stupid.
Can someone assure me that some states do send out the absentee ballots around this time--that it's not that late? Or is this really unusual?
Dave-- here in Arkansas the overseas ballots were held up pending the outcome of the state supreme court case over whether Nader will be on the ballot. Nader, I mean the Republican lawyer representing him, won, and so they're furiously printing up the ballots now. Ironically, though, the end result may be to reduce the Bush vote-- we've got a ton of National Guard troops in Iraq, most of whom would probably go Bush; the delayed ballots may reduce the troop vote a bit.
Loved it when Kerry called out Gibson as among those whom he would require to pay more taxes.
That was delish.
Kinda think Bob Somerby will appreciate it too.
Now if only Sean I'm-not-that-common Hannity were there.
Incognito:
You are exactly correct. When the generals are asked, they robotically respond: "I HAVE ENOUGH TROOPS TO PERFORM MY MISSION."
They are begging (I won't say dying) to be asked: "But, is your mission one which will result in success in Iraq, or should we be doing something else, something that might require more troops?"
All the press need do is ask the OBVIOUS follow-up. Cowed cowards.
Hee--stupid troll doesn't realize that what he posted only supports Atrios' statement.
grr
Poor diet of eating only Cheetos for the last four years has made them stupid.
Rove doesn't pay them enough to eat right.
The trolls need a union. 
That's what presidents do!
And since I'm the president, I did it!
And since I did it, I'm the president!
I want to see Nero wet himself at the last debate. Kerry doesn't really have to do anything other than be a prosecutor. Lay out a case, present the evidence, and let the truth speak for itself.
"I have a plan that will help us go out and kill and find the terrorists."
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/0...d=all&
position=
Don't ask me what my super-duper secret plan is to kill the terrorist before I find them, but I have a plan.
I have a plan....
I have a plan...
I have a plan..
I have a plan.
They are begging (I won't say dying) to be asked: "But, is your mission one which will result in success in Iraq, or should we be doing something else, something that might require more troops?"
And that's where the hair-brained ideology of the neo-cons comes in. They only wanted to believe their narrative that the Iraqis would welcome them with flowers. They would have shut out any of the generals who spoke up and possibly ruined their careers in retaliation.
Brownshirts in action.
They really are scum.
Dude, Im not a troll, I was making a supporting statement for Atrios' position, basically accusing Bush of giving himself a scapegoat if things went bad. Read it again.
Off road diesel engines, there are a lot of them; farm equipment and other equipment like pumps and generators.
Contruction equipment like welding machines and backhoes.
Lots of stationary engines, peaker power plants, back-generators.
But Bush is still an ignorant asshole, never fear.
But the administration didn--
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
Digby nails it:
America's Ex-husband
Angry, hectoring, condescending and loud. Very loud. He yelled at John Kerry, he yelled at Charlie Gibson, he even yelled at at the questioners. He yelled in short, punctuated bursts. He looked like he wanted to walk up to a couple of the questioners and jab a finger in their chests as he lectured them like children.
He's the dad who is always mad. Surly, unpredictable, spoiled. You know the type. "I'm the commander in chief, see. I don't need to explain ... Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody an explanation."
Last night, the only mistake he admitted to making was appointing some unnamed officials at whom he was obviously peeved.
This is a man who treats women like servants and men like lackeys. And last night he angrily yelled at America as if we were his long suffering, abused wife.
I think it's time for divorce.
I have a plan...
This was a running them for the two-faced, thin-skinned boy king last night. He has plenty of plans for the future, apparently, because he hasn't accomplished anything in the nearly four years in which he's held the country hostage to his petulant, belligerant will.
Kept saying last night, if you have so many plans, boy king, why haven't you implemented them with the help of your Republican congress?
What are you waiting for, boy king?
I don't think those comments were directed at you, joe... just happened to appear after yours...
One thing that has been little said about Kerry's performance was how he looked Bush directly in the eye and confronted him on point after point.
I think this was an excellent way for Kerry to demonstrate that he could stand up and confront opposition -- contradicting, for example, the idea that he somehow caved to Dean in the primaries. One got the very distinct impression that Bush had not encountered this sort of confrontation in his long entitled life, and most certainly not in the course of his bubble Presidency.
Bush, on the other hand, tried mightily to pretend that he was the only person in the room, and evaded in every way a direct confrontation with Kerry, even calling him again and again "my opponent", as if he weren't present, rather than addressing him by name.
BTW, the boy king today used his Saturday radio address to the people as another opportunity to repeat his campaign speech.
Help! I would like a copy of the 2nd debate... does anyone know where the debate can be found in video format on the Internet(s) or when a repeat will be scheduled?
But Bush is still an ignorant asshole, never fear.
joe mcgee
Bush is ignorant but he's extremely cunning and that can be just as effective as being brilliant. I think too many on the left have misunderestimated him because he's dumb.
One thing that has been little said about Kerry's performance was how he looked Bush directly in the eye and confronted him on point after point.
------------
That was the same mistake Nixon made when debating Kennedy. Kerry needed to be addressing the audience, not Bush.
PegLeg, I'm sure c-span.org has the video up by now.
leslie blitzer gets his panties all in a twist about how kerry characterizes shinseki's treatment. from last nite:
SCHNEIDER: And finally, Senator Kerry mentioned on one occasion that General Eric Shinseki, the former Army chief of staff, was forced to retire as a result of his comments about troop levels in Iraq. That's inaccurate. He served his full four-year term as Army chief of staff and he didn't retire early. By the time he had made his comments on troop levels, it was already known that he wouldn't remain in his post beyond the normal four-year term -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Bill Schneider, thanks very much. You think after all these times that John Kerry makes that claim about General Shinseki being forced to retire, not a correct claim, somebody would have told him he's got to reword the way he utters that so-called fact.
Actually, with a deeply-dump populace, and we have to admit that most Americans are dumb, being cunning could be more effective than being brilliant.
regarding the bulge on the back - they probably felt comfortable placing it there rather than on his leg or elsewhere because there was apparently an agreement in place with the media that neither candidate would be filmed or photographed from the back in the debates...
Help! I would like a copy of the 2nd debate... does anyone know where the debate can be found in video format on the Internet(s) or when a repeat will be scheduled?
PegLeg
Cspan.org will have it for a while. As for keeping a copy, there is software out there to download & save streaming media, just goooooooogle for it.
Eben Cooke - greetings, neighbor.
I know you're in Central Arkansas, but not where. If you're a voter residing within Pulaski County, there's also the "Staley effect" to contend with - whether you're voting absentee or just showing up at the polls.
CNN is replaying the debate in its entirety at 2:00 PM, FWIW.
Lots of points that made Bush look like an ass, but the fact that he couldn't come up with one, let alone three, mistakes in his feckless role as preznit, was a disaster, IMHO.
Even my "turn the other cheek" saint of a mother called Bush petulant and arrogant.
One thing that has been little said about Kerry's performance was how he looked Bush directly in the eye and confronted him on point after point.
I thought it was a tactic to get under the boy king's thin skin.
He hates to be challenged directly.
One thing that has been little said about Kerry's performance was how he looked Bush directly in the eye and confronted him on point after point.
------------
That was the same mistake Nixon made when debating Kennedy. Kerry needed to be addressing the audience, not Bush.
Yes, but the dynamic in this race is very different -- unlike Nixon, Kerry NEEDED to be perceived as comfortable with confrontation, and he did.
And Kerry certainly DID also address the audience, and indeed at one point looked directly into the camera itself to pledge he wouldn't raise middle-class taxes.
Many Americans have become anti-intellectual because 30 years of intellectualism have hurt many who are Bush's base so let's go with dumb so Bush is perfect for them. Also, being cunning is all about manipulating easily duped people.
Why would a father be "pissed" at his daughter for falling ill? An emergency appendectomy isn't some little sniffle.
perhaps the boy king was mad as hell because it wasn't an appendectomy (as reported.)
maybe he was pissed because she was pregnant and had to be "taken care of" and she could suffer in her own shit as far as he was concerned.
that would seem to fit, no?
$
"Kerry needed to be addressing the audience, not Bush."
-Intro
He knows how to do it. He was a prosecuting attorney - You directly question the defendant and make your case to the jury.
This President is totally ChickenShit.
He reminds me of the character from "Band of Brothers" Lt Dykes. another arrogant prick from Yale.
Bush also reminded me of Capt Queeg from the Cane Nutuny.
I wonder if Bush is going to cause a split in the Military vote for a generation.
Bush: "Let me give you a couple examples of the kind of person I wouldn't pick I wouldn't pick a judge who said the Pledge of Allegiance couldn't be said in the schools because it had the words "under God" in it. I think that's an example of a judge allowing personal opinion to enter into the decisionmaking process as opposed to strict interpretation of the constitution.
Ummm... doesn't the constitution mention religion and the state? Isn't Bush saying exactly the opposite of what he claims to be saying: that he requires a judge to have a personal opinion in favor of religion?
And Kerry certainly DID also address the audience, and indeed at one point looked directly into the camera itself to pledge he wouldn't raise middle-class taxes.
One of the interesting dynamics that's developed over the first two preznitial debates has been the respective demands that each candidate would place on the populace.
Kerry said last night that he has already had to retool some of his proposed spending programs, to account for the evolving fiscal and economic situation. Kerry appears willing to admit that effective governing sometimes requires painful sacrifices by the populace.
The boy king told an audience member that the regime could keep the country safe WITHOUT any sacrifice by the people. See, especially, the king's USA Patriot Act response. Your civil liberties have not been affected; nothing is asked of you. The work of citizenship is not hard.
Idiots at DUmb-ass Inc. bitching because "robbedvoter" cannot vote more than once? WTF? ROFLMMFAO!
http://
www.democraticunderground...ess=104x2470470
Typical for the delusional.
I tried to find out if taxpayer money is used to fund abortions for poor women in this country. It's hard to google without getting five billion hits from the crazed fundies to wade through.
I swear to god if no democrat -- either
Kerry or one of his surrogates on the
cable shows -- doesn't say that the
National Journal "number one liberal
in the congress" is bullshit (and why)
then I'm gonna take a hostage.
I can't believe our guys are still
letting the repugs get away with that crap.
frankly0 - Bush was trying to minimize Kerry by pretending he wasn't there.
It's a tactic most often employed by children 8 - 10 years old.
I don't think Bush did himself any favors by resorting to passive-agressive behavoir this time around rather than the straightforward petulance of the first debate.
Ahianne is right -- on This American Life, Ira Glass has Richard Perle and James Fallowes on the phone, and is getting them to duke it out over the failures in Iraq. Perle is spinning like a top, and Fallowes is eviscerating him.
This is priceless. WBEZ's server is non-responsive -- slashdotted, I presume.
Can't wait to get hold of a transcript of this.
...maybe he was pissed because she was pregnant and had to be "taken care of" and she could suffer in her own shit as far as he was concerned.
Frankly, that's even more damning, esp. considering his own family background and record of playing "enabler" for his girlfriends' abortions...
An OT good-morning to you all. (Your collective fault; it was too entertaining to go to bed before 3:30 this morning.) Several things have made me happy this morning, in descending order:
1. Attaturk's latest picfest, which I just spammed to everybody I know. ('S all good, but scroll down to Electric Boogaloo at Rising Hegemon.
2. Olbermann's slight revision of his scoring of the debate last night, including this: "The scorer's table reproaches President Bush for not knowing when he has wood." (see www.hardblogger.msnbc.com)
3. An AP story picked up by my local St. Pete Times. The question that hung over the second of their three debates was whether Bush's aggressive, hyper style was an effective tool or a damaging habit - an extension of his poor first debate performance. It's not a smack-down article, but it was nice to see reference to this in print. Although I could smack this gal: "They're very argumentative. I'm actually disgusted," said Jennifer Schmitz, 38, a mother of three in Klamath Falls, Ore. What does she think a debate IS??? Should people like this be allowed to vote?
Thanks for the CNN heads up... I gotta tape this thing.
Typical for the delusional.
Sweet projection - the brownshirt's best and only friend!
Question: when gthe military said thay had enough troops does anyone know what mission they were referring to? Clearly if the question was did they have enough troops to take bagdad yes was the right answer. The question is obviously only part of getting the whole thing right but Rumsfeld is an accomplished beaurocrat who knows how to get the answers he wants and Bush would not mind distorting the answer to suit his own ends.
The Bush campaign:
1. There was no bulge under his jacket.
2. The bulge was not from a bulletproof vest.
3. The bulge was a wrinkle in the fabric.
4. The bulge was not rectangular. Shut up! Shut up!
Timber! The bigger they are, the harder they fall.
My theory on the timber thing. If there is a CPA in the house, please chime in. Bush had some trees on some land he owns, possibly the ranch. A timber man approaches Bush about thinning some trees. The timber man tells Bush in exchange for the work, he would give Bush a percentage of the proceeds of selling the logs.
That percentage amounted to $84.
His accountant dutifully recorded the $84 as proceeds from the sale of timber and filled out his taxes according to the letter of the law. Bush who is notoriously detail averse, doesn't even notice the entry on his taxes.
Kerry, who has people studying Bush's tax returns, knows this. So he lays a trap for Bush. He knew the president would never know about his timber income. What's $84 to Bush, the Jackson Pollock of fine details?
So today everyone is talking about the wood thing and more Bush lies and obfuscations. First Cheney tells a stupid lie, and now Bush does.
frankly0 - Bush was trying to minimize Kerry by pretending he wasn't there.
I'm sure that was the intent, but I doubt it had the desired effect, except for his pre-existing base.
For normal people, I think the effect was more along the lines of: well, here's still another reality that Bush won't come to terms with, the fact that Senator Kerry is right in the room with him, confronting him to his face.
Bu$h is dumb like Mussolini.
And he's got Darth Cheney at his side, too.
Jimmy Carter's right. Bu$h's idea of "debate" is to provide talking points to pump up his NeoCon fanatic base. He has no intent of addressing real issues.
His aim is to agitate his fundamentalist 30% to the point of boiling, frothing anger.
At that point- regardless of who wins the popular vote, regardless of the margin- if he chooses he can throw at least the Florida and possibly the California vote into question, paving the way for the $upreme Court to hand him the $election.
And if the Democratic majority argues- well, his base is prepared to get physical.
You think the Justice Department and the Bu$h controlled military and the private Wrepulican "security" firms won't support Wrepublican vigilantes?
You think Ridge and Ashcroft won't declare martial law?
You haven't been paying attention?
"They're very argumentative. I'm actually disgusted," said Jennifer Schmitz, 38, a mother of three in Klamath Falls, Ore. What does she think a debate IS???
Mebbe she prefers the style of the 2000 VP debate, in which Joe Fucking Lieberman agreed with every word that Dick GFY™ Chenron uttered.
Should people like this be allowed to vote?
Of course. It takes all kinds and all opinions. Who knows what issues are of concern to that woman?
Incognito,
I'm pretty sure tax dollars are not going to fund abortions in this country.
He reminds me of the character from "Band of Brothers" Lt Dykes. another arrogant prick from Yale.
Bush also reminded me of Capt Queeg from the Cane Nutuny.
Major Major Major in "Catch-22"
Sgt Dickerson in "Good Morning Vietnam" (Maybe Bush does need a blow job. Where is Jean Kirkpatrick when you need her?"
Sinclair Media group has gone over the line. Atrios make this the top item on the page. IT NEEDS IMMEDIATE ATTENTION.
The media seems to have decided that it was a draw. Doubleplus ungood.
Break up Big Media.
Turn off the TV [except for C-SPAN & some note-worthy programs].
I stopped listening to TV pundits after the Clinton Impeachment and I'm a news junkie.
Boycott sponsors of Sinclair.
Our only real power is economic boycott.
Sometimes silence speaks louder than words.
Spend wisely! Otherwise you feed the beast.
I'm pretty sure tax dollars are not going to fund abortions in this country.
Vicki Stein
That's what I thought, too, but that question came up last night in the debate. I've tried to look it up in the past but you have to wade through so much fundie bullshit, it's pointless.
and here's a good link to the VP debate in case y'all need to enjoy it again
Should people like this be allowed to vote?
Of course. It takes all kinds and all opinions. Who knows what issues are of concern to that woman?
Yeah, I know ::hangs head:: but that quote about the debate being "argumentative" just raised my "stoopid is as stoopid does" hackles.
Excite Debate Poll:
http://tinyurl.com/6jk
"They're very argumentative. I'm actually disgusted,"
...Reminds me of that line in Dr. Strangelove...
"You can't fight in the War Room!"
"IT NEEDS IMMEDIATE ATTENTION."
-patience
Not very patient. Check out some of the earlier threads today. Atrios beat you to the punch by a couple of hours.
So if generals are always right, then I guess Lincoln was just wrong to fire McClellan? And Truman was just wrong to fire MacArthur?
Um... Bush hasn't fired any generals who were wrong. He (or Rumsfeld, same thing) did cut the legs out from under GEN Shinsheki for the General's (now proved to be right) professional estimate that it would take 300K troops to provide security in post-war Iraq.
I would trust Bush more if he had fired some subordinates responsible for the strategic and moral failings in Iraq: Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Franks, or Miller. He's apparently happy with things the way they are - with leads me to the conclusion that he isn't a leader I wish to have in charge of our great country.
Now that the mullahs in Iran have realized I will give them nuclear fuel, they too, are backing my campaign! Hey! It's not like we cannot trust them, right?!
http://story.news.yahoo.com/
news...uclear_kerry_dc
http://tinyurl.com/6m74r
Check out the Truthout article from the WSJ. Zogby...I hope you're right.
Bush. Dead. In. Water.
What was up with the scorn and the tone of voice he used in addressing the audience last night? Pathetic.
I wanted Kerry to say that he wants to have a town meeting every month too, if possible, as he said when he was in Buffalo in February. The people want to be part of the process.
Now that the mullahs in Iran hav
Hey Hey it's moolahs
-Gigantic Wad of Bush
Will the press ever begin denigrating,
The Chimperor's wild gesticulating?
Or will we hear nary a scoff,
As they can't bear to swear off,
The pleasures of Boy King fellating?
..
leslie blitzer gets his panties all in a twist about how kerry characterizes shinseki's treatment. from last nite:
BLITZER: Bill Schneider, thanks very much. You think after all these times that John Kerry makes that claim about General Shinseki being forced to retire, not a correct claim, somebody would have told him he's got to reword the way he utters that so-called fact.
bkny | Email | Homepage | 10.09.04 - 1:09 pm | #
=================================
Now that gives a new meaning to the old saying: "re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic"!
For the love of god, would he have left Kerry alone if he had used a Cheney-sized whopper like: "George Bush obtained an illegal abortion for his underage girlfriend"? Oh wait . . .
OT check this out for a bit of laughs
A cartoon-style nude painting of US President George W Bush has been taken down by a museum in Washington.
the painting is at http://tinyurl.com/6kcvt
I'm pretty sure tax dollars are not going to fund abortions in this country.
...I am pretty sure that if an indigent women in a life threatening situation came to our local indigent care center, they would perform the abortion if medically necessary. If the issue is an elective abortion, the indigent women would most likely have to go to something like a planned parenthood clinic.
frankly0, I took the liberty of posting your comment on Kerry's eye-to-eye gambit on my blog.
Good point. And you're right in your followup, he connected with the questioners much better than Bush.
Notice he remembered the pretty black woman's name four questions later?
OT, Emphyrio is your clearing house for Bush was wired rumors/evidence.
Bush has learned a stern lesson from the history of Viet Nam.
Make sure blame stays with the Generals.
The civilian policy master is totally incapable of making decisions regarding military matters. He is at the whim of the military mind. Good spin eh?
Next week, body count will be rephrased to infield downsizing as well.
If the issue is an elective abortion, the indigent women would most likely have to go to something like a planned parenthood clinic.
Falstaff
Fundies believe that any woman who was pregnant even up to 9 months could just walk in and get an abortion in this country paid for by tax dollars.
Great line I hope the Kerry campaign uses about the timber compnaty Bush doesn't know he has:
I guess the lawyers and accountants that Bush says get rich people out of paying taxes classify his clearing brush as a Timber company that Bush doesn't know he has.
georgie proved last night that as far as the bush mis-administration is concerned, the buck stop, and always has stopped...
With President Clinton.
Eben Cooke - greetings, neighbor.
I know you're in Central Arkansas, but not where. If you're a voter residing within Pulaski County, there's also the "Staley effect" to contend with - whether you're voting absentee or just showing up at the polls.
Hi back to you, Jennifer. Nope, I'm in White County, although of course I know about your election clerk probs. I read all about it cuz, sob, I have to drive down to your fine city just to get a beer. I'm actually working on book right now which will touch on the effects of living in a dry county on the local political scene.... I'll keep you informed.
I think the bible-bangers refuse to aquaint themselves with the facts so they can just rail and feel morally superior and self-righteous towards those who pragmatically support a woman's right to choose.
Re: federal funding for abortions - look at NARAL for the info. It involves more than just low income women. Military women, federal employees, peace corp volunteers. Anyone who relies on the federal gov't for health care has their right to abortion limited. Right now federal money is spent only to protect the life or health of the woman and in some cases rape or incest. So as to last night's question - it would be unconstitutional to ban all federal funding for abortions. But the right has gone as far as they can at this point to limit it.
acquaint
The debate is starting on repeat on CNN now (2pm east)
What's with the NYT story on Kerry being transformed by the wealth of his wife?
He only met Theresa about 10 years ago but was accomplished in his own right long before that.
How about a story on GWB's "wealth" and how it affected him?
Getting all pissy
Woman tells Bush, speaking of getting all pissy, my mother and sister caught holy crap during their overseas summer vacation because YOU just had to invade Iraq. Bush jeers, Well, I hate that poncho, so now we're even. Adds: Don't worry, they're just a bunch of dumb foreigners who don't understand my plan. Kerry says there is no plan. Bush says, 'member I was sittin' in the office, the oval one, lookin' at generals? Well, then I went down to the basement, where there was more generals, and I looked at every darn one of 'em. That's what a president does.
Notice he remembered the pretty black woman's name four questions later?
That impressed me too. Clinton was good at remembering names, places and dates. It makes the person your communicating with feel important.
"Turn off the TV [except for C-SPAN & some note-worthy programs]."
And "Free Speech TV" (if you don't get it on your cable, get Dish Network and tell them why).
Gore Lawsuit Challenges Australian Election Results
(2004-10-09) -- Just hours after the polls closed across Australia, and Prime Minister John Howard headed for his fourth term, former U.S. Vice President Al Gore filed a lawsuit in international court at the Hague alleging "irregularities" in the balloting.
The election was seen by many as a referendum on Australia's participation in Operation Iraqi Freedom and the subsequent efforts to bring democracy to Iraq. Mr. Howard's opponent, Mark Latham, had promised to withdraw Australian troops from the Coalition.
"Somebody was disenfranchised or coerced down under," said Mr. Gore, now an itinerant professor. "John Howard betrayed his country. He played on their fears. There's no way they could have re-elected him legally. We'll fight this result all the way to the U.N. Security Council if need be."
Democrat presidential contender John Forbes Kerry expressed displeasure at the Australian election outcome.
"This is the wrong election result, in the wrong place at the wrong time," Mr. Kerry said. "Think of the precedent this sets."
Field Marshall Paul Wolfowitz disputed Shinsheki’s claim that at leasst 200,000 US troops would be needed to pacify Iraq, calling it “wildly off the mark”. Of course, Wolfowitz wanted to sugarcoat the invasion so as not to scare the horses on main street. Rose petals were mentioned, and and a river of oil money.
Wolfowitz boycotted Shinseki’s retirement ceremony, he was so pissed at Shinseki telling the truth.
GIVE UP ON THE FLIP-FLOPPING, BUSH!
>>>READ THE ARTICLE AT DAILYBLURB.BLOGSPOT.COM
What I want to know is are ya'll turning Republican on me? All those references to Eisenhower and Reagan, no new taxes, confronting North Korea, all this military babble...
"Let the Lord put the words on his lips that America needs and wants to hear."
"I QUIT."
I relish the finger-pointing that is going to start next month among the weak-minded fuckups who have misgoverned the last four years. I'm sure Condi, Cheney, Rumsfailed et al will insist she/he tried vainly to focus the manchild but wasn't fully successfully because of the actions of the others.
Should be a nice little bloodletting.
Do I detect a sub-chapter S troll infection here?
Viva Boooosh!
Viva La Muerte!
What I want to know is are ya'll turning Republican on me? All those references to Eisenhower and Reagan, no new taxes, confronting North Korea, all this military babble...
My opponent will raise your taxes. So will I.
He won't tell you. I just did.
Who's Shinseki? Never heard of the man.
Gore Lawsuit Challenges Australian Election Results-Anon
Silly Troll, that was the last election,
But hey, go ahead, focus on it all you want,bring up Gore until you're blue in the face.
I'm sure that will make you feel lots better after Nov. 2nd when "Blinky the Make-believe Cowboy" gets kicked to the Kennebunkport curb.
I relish the finger-pointing that is going to start next month among the weak-minded fuckups who have misg
Well, Stencil, if they are like the Kissinger Vietnam crowd Nixon watergate crowd and the Regan Irangate Arms deal crowd they will never never admit they fucked up. The exceptions prove the rule--e.g., McNamara's confessions. He at least has my respect now for owning up. Kissinger can rot in hell. I will piss on his grave.
I'm just stunned that anyone is counting this as anything other than a sheer embarassment for Bush. Rationing?? He said there would be "rationing" under Kerry's health care plan!!!
He admitted he's only spending $30 bil. for Homeland Sec, and givng $89 bil to the super-rich!!! He yelled like an angry little boy at a man asking about cheaper drug imports!
Bush literally equated clusters of cells with human life! People who are suffering and dying aren't as valuable as clusters of cells that are already just going to be thrown away!!! People, talk about this!
Bush failed to address why the Philippines has left the coalition, why Poland is about to.
He lied over and over again. The rate of 'non-discretionary' spending he gave was pulled somewhere out of Cheney's colon! Bush has NO DEFENSE as to why the deficit is so high, NOTHING!
Gibson even at one point jumped the shark a bit by saying that neither candidate had addressed how they would cut the deficit when clearly Kerry had and Bush hadn't. The taxes on people over $200,000 alone will account for a huge chunk of Kerry's deficit plan, especially when you're talking about whether the cuts will be made permanent or not. Bush keeps saying that most small businesses are going to be taxed higher by the individual rate!! NO THEY ARE NOT!! Bush's plan to reduce deficit? - keep the tax cuts for the rich, fudge numbers, and LIE.
This debate was similar to Cheney vs. Edwards in that if you strike all untrue statements from the record, Bush barely said anything.
Re: General Shinseki - why don't you ask the man himself? He'll tell you a different story that is being "cited" here!
He said he'd pick a Supreme Court justice who would vote for him in yet another flawed election, since he knows they're going to attempt fraud again.
Someone, anyone, name me ONE SINGLE valid point that Bush made? Not one where the dynamics of the exchange made him come off better, I mean a valid point where his facts are totally correct and reinforce his position...
"Blinky the Make-believe Cowboy"
I just wanted to type that again.
OK:
(2004-10-09) -- The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) said today it has found what may be a cache of plans by John Forbes Kerry to address the crises in health care, the economy, Iraq and a host of other national traumas.
"We were called in on the case after the plans had gone missing through two presidential debates," said an FBI spokesman. "I have to caution you, however, that it may take several months or more to translate these documents and discover whether they are, in fact, plans. It's still up in the air because the file folders in which we found them had no labels. Apparently, Mr. Kerry doesn't like to label anything."
A spokesman for the Kerry-Edwards campaign refused to comment directly on the FBI discovery.
"Sen. Kerry has said 'I have a plan' and we will leave it at that," said the unnamed source. "The FBI, at the direction of John Ashcroft, is on a fishing expedition to embarrass John Kerry just before the election."
The source noted that "when Martin Luther King Jr. said 'I have a dream' no one demanded that he prove it. Why should Sen. Kerry be held to higher standard?"
Kerry rally in Ohio live on C-SPAN.
I'm sure Condi, Cheney, Rumsfailed et al will insist she/he tried vainly to focus the manchild
Rumsfeld and Cheney have already started making alibis. Haven't you noticed?
Rice has chosen the Sergeant Schultz strategy instead, recently so successfully used by Enron's Jeff Skilling.
"dogs and soldiers keep off the grass"
why listen when you can squeeze them into retirement.
-J.T.
Haw, haw, haw. Wheee! That's hilarious. Tell us another one. Whoooo. Now that's funnnnnnny.
Have you considered Comedy Central? You're a real talent. Good one.
Wit like yours ought not go unrewarded.
Man, that was a good one.
Cheney has Halliburton, now Bush's timber company has been exposed. Just look at this BBC News report from Afghanistan:
One of the men in the village, Khair Ullah, told me he was proud of his new window frame - but he can't afford to buy the actual windows.
Khair Ullah told me: "This winter is too cold and people need some wood for fire and also they need some other assistance like foodstuffs.
Is Bush secretly arranging a no-bid timber contract in Afghanistan, to enrich his own company?
Look out, Jon Stewart! There's Anonymous hilarity competition. Your days are numbered, chump!
-Name on fact Bush made
How about "I remember sitting in the white house...went into the basement...."
That's probably true. Too bad he came out of the basement. Maybe somebody can start a version of "The West Wing" : "Wingnuts in the Basement" Kate Smith as Barbara Bush. Stan and Ollie as Bush and Cheney.
Just hours after the polls closed across Australia, and Prime Minister John Howard headed for his fourth term, former U.S. Vice President Al Gore filed a lawsuit in international court at the Hague alleging "irregularities" in the balloting.
Silly troll doesn't even know that it was Baker and the Repugs who filed the first lawsuit in 2000. Must be a Fox viewer.
yeah that Anonymous crap smells of stale bagels and limp pasta.
anyone catch "this american life this week"? an interview/debate with richard perle and james fallows. really good. perle admits mistakes were made, but predictably he uses the line there was no way to know for sure whether or not the advice of "academics at the army war college" would have yielded at better outcome. he also says nobody in this administration gets fired for anything.
i guess except for disagreeing with the preznit and his posse.
true that.
My theory on the timber thing. If there is a CPA in the house, please chime in. Bush had some trees on some land he owns, possibly the ranch. A timber man approaches Bush about thinning some trees. The timber man tells Bush in exchange for the work, he would give Bush a percentage of the proceeds of selling the logs.
Not even that directly. You see this sort of thing in the mineral exploration industry all the time. Small company X, in need of some cash, sells you a few shares and names you a director. You say "That's nice" and promptly forget about it. Company X than goes off and does it's thing.
An example I know of happened in the late 1990s. A company in Canada that had been funding some small exploration projects (really, acting as a fund for people who wanted to invest some money and take advantage of investment credits offered by Revenue Canada) abruptly announced they were getting into the Internet travel booking business. I can easily see someone who invested in a few shares in Whatever Ltd not realizing that their investment money had been shifted from mineral exploration to the Internet(s), and simply accepted the annual dividend cheques from Whatever Ltd without really thinking about it, especailly if it were such a small amount.
Pat buchannan was gleaming about Bushie performance last night. Saying that the men would favor him, while some women were more impressed with Kerry. I couldn't listened to his bullshit anymore so I switched to CNN.
CNN had so called "undecided" voters in a room who were rating the debate with those electronic buttons. Kerry scored way higher from the men
and lower from the women.
I think some women like bush because he is better looking and they think he is tougher. (Texan cowboy bullshit). My Republican sister who herself believes this about Bush adores him, until I told her this. I explained to her if terrorists were taking over your neighborhood, Who would you want to protect you? Kerry or Bush?
I know damn well Bush would throw you in front of him to protect himself and Kerry would fight them.
The question is not Who you would have a beer with? But Who would better protect you if terrorists were attacking your neighborhood? Kerry was the answer my Repub. sister came up with. Put in that context it dispelled her notions that Mr. Bush is a tough guy.
I posted this late last night and thought I'd repost:
Re: "timber company"
Does Bush still own his lake house in Texas? I think I remember reading about it in Kevin Phillips "American Dynasty." He and the other members of the exclusive lakeside development get a huge property tax break based on agricultural zoning (or else some kind of green zoning) because they grow trees on their property. I can see them occasionally cutting down a tree and selling the wood -- and 80 something dollars might be Bush's cut (no pun intended). My father does that occasionally on his farm. He sold a storm damaged walnut that had to be taken down and got something over a thousand dollars for it IIRC.
The lakehouse info may be from Hatfield's "Fortunate Son" instead of "American Dynasty." I've read them both, and can't remember exactly which book it was in and can't find it at the moment. In this case, the homeowners association for the development would have sold the wood and Bush would have gotten his share -- hence the small amount of money involved.
If Bush were a Democrat, there would already be a special prosecutor investigating that timber company and Bush's lies about it.
Bush has a real anger management problem. I'm not at all surprised none of his generals were willing to "look him in the eye" and say "No, sir; you haven't given us enough troops." He'd have flown into a rage and fired them all on the spot.
Rumsfeld is the MF who is responsible for turning Iraq into a gigantic game of Doom IV. He sold the idea to Bush, and no doubt the generals were coached on what to say to the Preznit.
Where Bush got the idea he could conduct a ground campaign in Iraq with UAVs, I don't know. That's too stupid even for Rummy; that's something out of Brazil.
Oopsie! Whitehouse.gov seems to have sent to "coalition of the willing" down the memory hole! How will we denigrate our allies if we don't know who they are?
Story at my
re Shineski and the Blitzer spin that he wasn't fired.
In public adminstration, we study a manual by a Nixon personnel official; it details how to get people to quit so you don't have to fire them. Assigning them to unpleasant locations, giving them impossible jobs and keeping them out of the loop are 3 classic tactics.
It may be technically true that Shineski chose to retire when he did, but the REAL truth is surely that he had no choice.
ack, I can't even blogwhore correctly today!
Just click on homepage!
correction, the Kerry rally was earlier today.
They announced Shinseki's successor more than a year early. If that isn't marginalizing, I don't know what is.
WaPo fact check article:
Shinseki was permitted to retire on schedule, but in revenge for his comments, Defense Department officials leaked the name of his replacement 14 months early, effectively undercutting his authority.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp...1-
2004Oct9.html
It may be technically true that Shineski chose to retire when he did, but the REAL truth is surely that he had no choice.
pitbullEmily
No one of sane mind doubts this; I turned off the spinners last night when "Kerry" and "populist rhetoric" were linked sardonically by a "neutral" "analyst."
he also says nobody in this administration gets fired for anything.
.
i guess except for disagreeing with the preznit and his posse.
nah. nobody gets fired, for anything.
thoughtcrime is dealt with by the neurosurgeons, or so it would seem. How did they get Powell, McCain, and Franks to come around to fellating Bush the way they have been doing lately?
OT, but disgusting. Thanks, O Impartial Grey Lady:
Kerry's Life Was Transformed by Wealth of His Wife and Others
Spend five minutes on Bush's fuckin' money, willya!?
CNN: running clips from debate. Just ran the whole oliverwillis.com clip, from start to finish.
Yeah baby. Landslide!
Whoa, I'm just now watching it after only listening to it last night. Just with the outburst interrupting Gibson, Bush is seriously deranged. He's just like the wing nut supporters--both deranged and dumb.
Was on a panel last night before the debate at the Chicago Historical Society. My fellow panelist was a winger poli sci prof from Loyala. He kept on talking about how Kerry claimed that every soldier in Vietnam carried around a severed VC head, or something.
I took pity on him. Hard to play poker when you've only got a pair of twos. I, on the other hand, attacking Bush, had four aces.
Full house, 400 people, watched the debate in the CHS theater, chortling mightily at nearly everything Bush said.
We watched the CBS broadcast. When the guy asked Bush about his environmental record, and Bush stammered around trying to answer, they cut to the questioner, who was literally glowering in anger at the insults his Chimpmander in Chief was dishing forth.
Thanks, emd. Sending that link too all the friggin' whores at CNN et al.
1069 - icasualties.org/oif/BY_DOD.aspx
james wolcott has more to say (bless his heart):
Empty Volcano
Posted by James Wolcott
For much of last night's debate George Bush looked like a blister about to pop. Loud, mouthy, swaggering, interested only in hearing himself lay down the law, he behaved like a verbally abusive husband. Not a wifebeater but a browbeater with a bar-fighter's grin. It is astonishing and sobering that this dull roar with a one-track mind that runs on tank treads is fighting for reelection instead of facing impeachment; his lies and failures have fed thousands of graves, and filled thousands more hospital beds with bodies and psyches that will never be whole again. And still our mainstream pundits can not, will not see him for what he is. He cracks a corny joke, and they marvel at his Reaganesque humor. He hollers at Charlie Gibson, and he's hailed as a take-charge guy.
Bush reminded me most of Pat Buchanan last night, not perhaps the best model to imitate if you're courting independents and women. The same judo chop to emphasize a point, the same hot-temperature demeanor and rhetoric, the same empty machismo masquerading as decisiveness. Here we have multimillionaire pundits who pride themselves on being knowledgable, articulate, capable of taking issues and personalities apart and examining them from different angles and reassembling them--and they swoon over someone who is none of these things, like intellectual jocksniffers in a locker room listening to some athlete grunt platitudes. They use words for a living, but distrust any politician who treats words with care, or even acts as if words might have meanings. Bush throws words as if they were rocks picked up in a playground, and they treat him like Roger Clemons.
But just as the MSNBC panel, which ought to be shipped to Guantanamo for the duration of the election season, blundered so badly after the Cheney-Edwards debate, the pundits didn't seem to recognize what was happening in front of their eyes last night. As Pauline Kael used to say after reading the reviews of certain movie critics, "It's hard to believe they were actually looking at the screen." Fortunately, the cable-news spinmeisters seem to matter less and less in the framing of the debate reaction--they've insulted the viewers' sense of reality too many times.
The sanest debate analysis I heard last night came from Fox News' Chris Wallace, who was a guest on Charlie Rose after Charlie had subjected us to some deadbeats. Wallace came across as someone thinking for himself rather than inhaling fumes, and he saw that it was Kerry who was persuasively presidential last night, a perception that may widen over the coming days as the footage of Bush hollering like a hogcaller are replayed to a cringing nation.
Why why why won't the dumbasses in the media who claim to fact the debates point out the most glaring?:
Bush claimed "we have 30 countries over there".(Iraq) What a load of bs.
Also, all the wingnuts are quick to say Kerry wrongly claimed bush "fired" Gen. Shinseki (sp). Actually, Kerry said, "retired him" which is exactly correct.
If I had music skills I'd be writing a piece for Bush called The Chicken Caesar Strut. Can anybody channel Scott Joplin?
Why why why won't the dumbasses in the media who claim to fact the debates point out the most glaring?:
Bush claimed "we have 30 countries over there".(Iraq) What a load of bs.
Also, all the wingnuts are quick to say Kerry wrongly claimed bush "fired" Gen. Shinseki (sp). Actually, Kerry said, "retired him" which is exactly correct.
Anonymous
Um, because they can't get up off their knees and talk into a ....microphone.... at the same time?
filkertom,
I don't see the negative in the article at all. The more I read about Kerry and his personal life the more I like him.
The article leaves me with the impression of a very humble man.
My favorite line of the night:
Bush: The truth of that matter is ... if [Kerry] were the president of the United States, the world would be a lot better off.
"Rule together as brothers, enrich the soldiers, and forget about everybody else."
Roman Emperor Septimius Severus
nowhere in history does anyone recommend the leader to "throw your secret intelligence agencies and military under the bus".
i think this is another lesson bush is going to learn the hard way.
Also, OT, but I'm surprised more bloggers haven't picked this up.
In early September 2003, Army National Guard Spec. Gerard Darren Matthew was sent home from Iraq, stricken by a sudden illness.
One side of Matthew's face would swell up each morning. He had constant migraine headaches, blurred vision, blackouts and a burning sensation whenever he urinated.
The Army transferred him to Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington for further tests, but doctors there could not explain what was wrong.
Shortly after his return, his wife, Janice, became pregnant. On June 29, she gave birth to a baby girl, Victoria Claudette.
The baby was missing three fingers and most of her right hand.
Matthew and his wife believe Victoria's shocking deformity has something to do with her father's illness and the war - especially since there is no history of birth defects in either of their families.
They have seen photos of Iraqi babies born with deformities that are eerily similar.
In June, Matthew contacted the Daily News and asked us to arrange independent laboratory screening for his urine. This was after The News had reported that four of seven soldiers from another National Guard unit, the 442nd Military Police, had tested positive for depleted uranium (DU).
The independent test of Matthew's urine found him positive for DU - low-level radioactive waste produced in nuclear plants during the enrichment of natural uranium.
Juan Gonzalez should be getting more props, he's been on this issue for months.
meme -- oh, yeah, it's actually a decent article. But the headline conveys at a glance all that is bad about being a pampered wealthy aristocratic etc., and tries to stick it on Kerry.
I'm beyond disgusted at K/E getting ragged on for being rich when [a] Bush and Cheney are also rich, [b] K/E came by their money a good deal more honestly, and [c] Dubya's entire life has been one of privilege based on family money.
Bush says he provides steady leadership.
After last night's lunatic ranting & raving, Kerry needs to tell Americans he will provide STABLE leadership.
Bush lacks the mental stability to lead.
The sanest debate analysis I heard last night came from Fox News' Chris Wallace, who was a guest on Charlie Rose after Charlie had subjected us to some deadbeats. Wallace came across as someone thinking for himself rather than inhaling fumes, and he saw that it was Kerry who was persuasively presidential last night...
I thought the same thing. I was watching the end of the debate and post-debate spin on Fox (I was at a pizza place that had it on) and I was pretty surprised to hear this guy on Fox.
Where Bush got the idea he could conduct a ground campaign in Iraq with UAVs, I don't know. That's too stupid even for Rummy; that's something out of Brazil.
or, better yet, Big O.
There's even an R. Dorothy in this story.
Watching the replay of the debate on CNN. Preznit Blinky reminds me of a little banty rooster, strutting around the stage.
Also, thanks to those who have replied on the absentee ballot issue. I voted by absentee ballot in 1998 and 2000 and I thought I remembered them going out earlier, but I could be wrong.
The Times article actually belies the headline, but many won't notice.
I do like it that they explode the myth that windsurfing is a rich person's sport.
Karin
I seen this story on TV a few months ago and I believe this will be one of many stories of which our men and their families will be greatly affected by the exposure to radioactive waste. Our gov't has in the past dispelled illnesses caused by uranium exposure in Gulf War I and I hope when Kerry gets elected, he will address this situation.
meme,
I think filkertom's point was that the media harps on THK's vast wealth and Kerry's uppidy upbringing endlessly. That article also used the loaded words (to the wingnuttery) France, and speaking French. OY!
...it was Kerry who was persuasively presidential last night, a perception that may widen over the coming days as the footage of Bush hollering like a hogcaller are replayed to a cringing nation
I like the sound of that.
Buchannan said exactly what was expected of him, but really what shit. There may be a small minority who vote for bush with admiration, but the vast majority know they're voting for a dumbass cartoon. For some reason they think he shares their values, which to the degree they represent jingoism, racism, cloud father fundamentalism and greed, they're right.
filkertom
True, but if you are a Republican, the title will draw you in. Let's see what gossip I can get on Kerry,
oops, not a bad guy afterall.
You know it amazes me of how clean John Kerrys background is. If there was anything at all dirty, the rethugs would of been all over it.
meme, I wish Kerry would address it now, in the campaign. Of course, the scientist who has done the research on DU in Iraq is locked up.
She's one of the female prisoners that the US denies holding.
OT, anyone see Ralph Nader's public declaration of being a HUGE dumbass in an op-ed in today's Wash. Post? Such a tool...
the UAVs might have some super-high-tech variant controllable from the states like Bush said, but the ones we saw go back to camps in the area (they also "report" back to screens in the states whih might be what Bush is confusing for actual control). They are assassination weapons, intel scouts, but they sure as a company of dead grunts waiting for support do not take and hold land, which is what you do in a war. The assassination and intel-gathering is just a supporting extra thing for grunts taking and holding land; this is essentially the same game Alexander played, and this bullshit about how we're not going to have any navies or armies anymore because of the Miracle of Air Power goes back to lies yammered about by Billy Mitchell and a few other "aviation fundamentalists," but it's never been true. If anything is staving off a draft it sure as hell is not a new intel/assassination toy.
Kerry not only won the debate, he routed bu$h. Kerry savaged bu$h's pink little world with facts and ideas. Bus$h was awful, nasty (downright nuts)and spoke OT most of the night. Clueless bastard.
Kerry not only won the debate, he routed bu$h. Kerry savaged bu$h's pink little world with facts and ideas. Bus$h was awful, nasty (downright nuts)and spoke OT most of the night. Clueless bastard.
Whoops! Sorry for the double.
Karin
That is a very good point. Obviously this is a concern for the men and women who are now serving or have served in Iraq.
Karin-Anon 3:13 is me
My cookies are not being saved. Don't know why?
More troops would have challenged the Doctrine of Rumsfeldian Infallibility, because he had decreed that a pared-down, light, rapidly moving force would do the job. It is because of that stubborn asshole Rumsfeld that this mess has been created.
Looks like Pigboy is one step closer to meeting a big black dude named Tyrone in the “pokie” who was a Eagles quarterback, Donovan McNabb, fan. If they sent Martha to prison, they better send that load.
My email to CNN cable news:
Your news organization is quickly going downhill trying to compete with Fox for the minority of viewers who are far-right-wing.
I have a way to redeem yourself: be the first cable news organization to get the facts right on Kerry's comment on General Shinseki's retirement. You can start here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp...1-
2004Oct9.html
I hope you actually listen to viewers. Because I'm very close to becoming a member of the CNN boycott.
Thanks,
Lynne
"Rule together as brothers, enrich the soldiers, and forget about everybody else."
Roman Emperor Septimius Severus
nowhere in history does anyone recommend the leader to "throw your secret intelligence agencies and military under the bus".
i think this is another lesson bush is going to learn the hard way.
My cookies are not being saved. Don't know why?
meme
meme: same problem here. Cookies saved elsewhere though, they are definitely turned on.
Hey Atrios, turn my cookies on, baby! LOL
bigvic
Oy French-They can't stand the fact that Kerry is a well rounded person.
shame on them. I'd say they are a little intimidated with the Heinz fortune. They hate when the opposition have as much money as they do. Like George Soros-It disturbs the crap out them.
Slightly OT, is anyone else tired of the drug importation argument? The drugs are made HERE! We, as a nation, are being bilked by the drug companies. And all their hooey about R & D is belied by the fact that their advertising budgets massively outweigh any sort of developmental budget and that much of the research is federally aided. One of the main reasons we seem to be held hostage by the drug companies is this--news programs are almost exclusively funded by pharmaceutical ads! The SCLM is OWNED by the drug companies. Think about it. The elephant in the room is that these soulless profiteers need beheading and regulation.
Thanks, bigvic.
Meme, I just worry that they'll take it as more fodder -- "See? The New York Times says he's rich." Yes, I know, that shouldn't mean jack, but facts and context seem to be so out of fashion. And, bluntly, a lot of 'em won't make it past the headline.
In the Rethug mind: rich Democrat = class traitor
I can't remember where I read it but: "It's only called class warfare when the poor fight back. The rest of the time, it's just business as usual."
Someone, anyone, name me ONE SINGLE valid point that Bush made? Not one where the dynamics of the exchange made him come off better, I mean a valid point where his facts are totally correct and reinforce his position...
Bush said, and I paraphrase: "You've got to look at the record of the man who's running for president."
That's a pretty good point.
After a morning of deep contemplation, I have determined who Dubya reminded me of during last night's debate:
Yosemite Sam.
Deep-in-the-dirt accent, and chock full of swaggering, gunslinging, screaming and hectoring, but in the end completely unable to beat a seemingly mild-mannered (but actually very cagey) wabbit.
Onceler -- I would say that he hasn't been reading the blogs or the MoveOn.org and DNC and Kerry campaign press releases, but that's obvious in light of his complete obliviousness to the real world.
Hee. Maybe we can start calling him Daffy. As in, the way Daffy Duck gets a suggestion from Porky Pig (in Duck Dodgers, Deduce You Say, some others), laughs at it, and they stops abruptly and offers the exact same idea as his own.
Dripalong Nader. Eeyup.
They hate when the opposition have as much money as they do. Like George Soros-It disturbs the crap out them.
Good one meme, but the difference, as you all well know, is that Soros, THK and many other vastly wealthy Dems. are extremely generous and believe that they deserve to *give back* and pay high taxes. And guess what? It hasn't stopped them from STILL having more money that they know what to do with.
After reading an article on Abu Ghreib by Mark Danner in NYRB, and looking again at the photos, I would like to ask: when is Abu Ghreib going to be publicly shoved up Bush's ass?
Why won't Kerry say anything about this? Are some actions of this administration so despicable that they cannot even be discussed in public?
Good Christ, Miranda. That's scary.
Quick -- let's do the rest of the WB cast. We did Tweety years ago; let's see --
Egghead as George Will
Pete Puma as W. (understudy)
Marvin the Martian as Cheney
Wile E. Coyote as Rummy
Granny as Condi (works better with Yosemite Sam as W.)
Bugs Bunny as Kerry
Foghorn Leghorn as Edwards
I could go on awhile, but why should I have the fun, or the final casting? 
Texans for Truth has an ad talking about Bush lying to the National Guard. They sent an appeal to my inbox to help get it on the air. I have no money to spare this week, so I'm posting it here in the hopes that other people do. Thanks.
Dear Texans for Truth Supporter,
A hard-hitting new ad is being launched by Texans for Truth. It points out that Bush quit the National Guard early, and now forbids Guardsmen in Iraq from leaving even after fulfilling their commitments. The ad features Stacy Bannerman, the spouse of a National Guard Sgt. First Class, serving in Iraq.
Click here to see Stacy. Then contribute to help us get Stacy on the air so American voters can hear her sincere, emotional account of Bush's hypocrisy and lack of integrity: http://texansfortruth.com/contribute.html
The ad focuses attention on George W. Bush's "back-door draft" which has used "stop-loss orders" to prevent the retirements of National Guard and reserve members who were eligible to leave the Army this year. It draws a poweful contrast between Bush's shameful failure to complete his service in the Texas National Guard and those brave men and women whom his orders have forced to serve beyond their terms of duty.
As the Washington Post wrote in December 2003, for the soldiers, "stop-loss is an inconvenience, a hardship and, in some cases, a personal disaster." Our new ad personalizes the trauma that George W. Bush's back-door draft inflicts on soldiers and their families.
In the ad, Stacy Bannerman, whose husband is a Guardsman in Iraq, calls out George W. Bush on his hypocrisy: "The fundamental issue as I see it is integrity. People are literally dying for the lack of integrity."
Click the image to see Stacy. Then click here to help get Stacy on the air so American voters can hear her sincere, emotional account of Bush's hypocrisy and lack of integrity: http://texansfortruth.com/contribute.html
Thank you for your generous support of our efforts to speak truth to power,
Glenn Smith
Texans for Truth
depleted uranium is the WMD in Kuwait and Iraq. And the US is the cause. It's a heavy metal, you know, like the other heavy metals that cause developmental damage and other things, lead cadmium. It is agent orange on steroids, and we will hear about the damage to Iraqi innocents and US veterans for the rest of our lives.
OT, I realize, but I figured Eschatonians would want to know the Jacques Derrida has died.
Deconstruction icon Derrida dies
Probably just couldn't stand parsing Bush's tortured non-sequiturs any longer.
The CNN Quickvote, which had Kerry winning the debate last night by about 80%/20% now shows Bush winning. This is strange considering that the msnbc poll seems to have stablized at about 63%/37% for Kerry.
meme - it makes them feel guilty that someone is giving back, and not they.
Preznut Versus Presidential
Shuster over at MSNBC offered a clear statistic from the Kerry vocabulary last night, mentioning the word "president" no less than sixty times while the guy holding the office cackled around the red carpet like an angry, aimless chickenhawk. Once again, the challenger standing beside this display of connect-the-dots lunacy looked stable, focused, informed and generally .... well .. presidential.
it would seem that "TONY BLAIR" IS ENGLISH FOR "DOUCHEBAG" (in case you didn't already think that with the Dome Away From Home business).
Derrida was watching the debate last night. He muttered "Omigod, there is such a thing as a fact. George Bush is an asshole." He then had a massaive heart attack.
Brian: I saw that. We all need to go back and freaking vote again.
Watch: they started over, but they kept all the cookies or IP address info that keeps our votes from being counted again. I would NOT put it past the fuckers.
Go vote!
"You looked at me like my clock was up."
After a morning of deep contemplation, I have determined who Dubya reminded me of during last night's debate:
Yosemite Sam.
Deep-in-the-dirt accent, and chock full of swaggering, gunslinging, screaming and hectoring, but in the end completely unable to beat a seemingly mild-mannered (but actually very cagey) wabbit.
Shoot, sorry for the double post.
Filkertom
I do understand completely, But at this time there is not too many people at this point who are going to change their mind. I think that undecided factor is down to about 2%.
What about Fox news last night?, they were more pro Kerry than Pro Bush. Could it because Kerry was quoted in most newspapers saying he liked Fox news and O'Reilly. Kerry is a genius.
Miranda
Yosemite Sam is a very good analogy. Also, Kerry is the crafty Bugs Bunny, a good closer with finely honed instincts. Tried to find the perfect picture, but this will have to do.
Meme,
Did you see O'Reilly on The Daily Show the other night? He said that Kerry will be on his show.
After a morning of deep contemplation, I have determined who Dubya reminded me of during last night's debate: Yosemite Sam.
Miranda
"there's FEAR in them thar hills!" now the canadians have a secret plot to kill amuricens with their prescription drugs
i've got the feeling that the rest of the world is laughing at us today for electing such a pathetic retard
Meme,
Did you see O'Reilly on The Daily Show the other night? He said that Kerry will be on his show.
Interesting ! I think they know full well that Bush is a "walking time bomb" as we saw in the debate last evening
Iran Would Welcome Kerry Camp Proposal-Official
http://tinyurl.com/684ks
By Parisa Hafezi
TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran would welcome a proposal by U.S. presidential candidate Senator John Kerry's running mate for a "great bargain" to solve the dispute over Tehran's nuclear program, a senior Iranian official said on Saturday.
Vice presidential candidate Senator John Edwards has said that Kerry, a Democrat, would be willing to supply Iran with nuclear fuel for power generation if Tehran abandons its own fuel-making capability - if Iran did not accept this offer, it would confirm Iran wanted to make an atom bomb.
Iran earlier rejected the proposal, saying it would be "irrational" for Iran to jeopardize what it says is its purely civilian nuclear program by relying on supplies from abroad.
But in an apparent policy shift, Hossein Mousavian, head of the foreign policy committee at Iran's Supreme National Security Council, said Iran would review the proposal.
Fuck CNN.
Anyway, check the scorecards out: Grade the Debaters Yourself
Miranda and aReader, you just touched off a photochopping in my head. Be back in a sec with a funny pic. Hehehe.
With apologies to The Bard:
Bush's but a walking shadow,
a poor player
Who struts and frets his hour
upon the stage
And then is heard no more.
His is a tale
Told by an idiot,
full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
Here it is... Kerry and Bush arrive at Washington University yesterday evening.
After and exhausting investigation into the bush blinking episodes we have concluded that it was subconscious morse code and reads:"I dont belong in the White House,I belong in a mulch pile,vote for Kerry,send me my mother."Additionally,the jaw grinding seems more like a cow chewing his cud rather than any expression of disgust with his opponent.
I prefer Simpsons
Monty Burns-Cheney
Chief Wiggums-Ashcroft
Moe-Bush
Edna Krabappel-Laura
Principal Skinner-Giuliani
Nelson-Rumbaugh
Ralph Wiggum-Matt Lauer
Shafley & Coulter-Patty & Selma Bouvier
Mat -- Jeeeezus, fuckin' Novakula:
"I thought Bush won the debate. Kerry didn't make any major gaffes but Bush showed he wasn't the ninny that he appeared to be in Florida."
What we've been saying. Bush doesn't fry himself by drooling on his mike, and he's the god of rhetoric.
Why hasn't Novak been indicted yet!?
Fuck CNN.
Anyway, check the scorecards out: Grade the Debaters Yourself
Mat
while agree with the point, don't forget that they are grading the preznut on a curve of his past performances
kerry goes back to the lectern format on the next go round and let's see what parting shot he leaves for the village idiot on 10/13; i told all my friends no birthday presents for me this year -- i want 10/13 to be the day that kerry puts this moron away, once and for all
I thought the earpiece story was just going to die, but apparently not. Is this video going around?
http://www.canofun.com/blog/
vide...dTheOddSync.wmv
Supposedly Bush's secret audio feed made it onto the CNN audio. You can hear a distinct voice giving verbal cues.
Bigvic
Always wondered why so many rich repubs. are so damn angry all the time. Your right, they haven't learned giving back empowers you internally. soooooooooo sad.
http://www.rumorsontheinternets.com/
Bob Novakula:
"I thought Bush won the debate. Kerry didn't make any major gaffes but Bush showed he wasn't the ninny that he appeared to be in Florida."
BWAAAAAAHAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAA!
Oh that's rich.
Here's another news photo... George Bush begins to calm down, immediately after last night's debate.
Yeah, Meme, I thought the Fox thing was pretty interesting. Brit Hume, of all people, was saying nice things about Kerry. Brrr. The Apocalypse is nigh.
I thought the earpiece story was just going to die, but apparently not. Is this video going around?
http://www.canofun.com/blog/
vide...dTheOddSync.wmv
Supposedly Bush's secret audio feed made it onto the CNN audio. You can hear a distinct voice giving verbal cues.
Really, is there any better way to sum up Bush's complete clusterfuck than RudePundit's "it's snake eyes, motherfucker, it's snake eyes"?
I haven't repeated something so much since Chapelle's "I'm Rick James, bitch."
Hey Mat,
That's probably the first time GWB ever got a grade above a C.
I thought the earpiece story was just going to die, but apparently not. Is this video going around?
http://www.canofun.com/blog/
vide...dTheOddSync.wmv
Supposedly Bush's secret audio feed made it onto the CNN audio. You can hear a distinct voice giving verbal cues.
My cookies are not being saved. Don't know why?
meme
meme: same problem here. Cookies saved elsewhere though, they are definitely turned on.
Hey Atrios, turn my cookies on, baby! LOL
Same Here.
It's been a problem for a week.
Novak belongs in jail.
I thought the earpiece story was just going to die, but apparently not. Is this video going around?
http://www.canofun.com/blog/
vide...dTheOddSync.wmv
Supposedly Bush's secret audio feed made it onto the CNN audio. You can hear a distinct voice giving verbal cues.
Miranda, one final reference... here is a GWB/YS comic strip, drawn in 2003.
Fox is now cutting bases with the kerry camp and hedging their bets now - CNN is overprotecting its dem-leaning flank with it glass half-filled approach on the preznut - MSNBC is being sneakier by trying to pull in some Fox viewers who are getting annoyed with the sudden shift in kerry coverage
it's all about ratings now, because this race is winding down and it's looking like a new day in the white house
where's little scotty mclelland now? hiding in the bunker with viceroy cheney?
Anon,
Did you see O'Reilly on The Daily Show the other night? He said that Kerry will be on his show.
I did, Shows me Kerry is not afraid of anything. It would be like, Pres.
Bush going on an interview on Air America. BRING IT ON!
I'm beyond disgusted at K/E getting ragged on for being rich when [a] Bush and Cheney are also rich, [b] K/E came by their money a good deal more honestly, and [c] Dubya's entire life has been one of privilege based on family money.
Kerry is a lot richer than Bush, in his own right, without any of Teresa's money. Edwards, on the other hand, is only somewhat richer than Cheney, whose net worth is perhaps twice to five times Bush's.
This, tellingly, is reason enough for both Bush and Cheney to hate their opponents with a passion.
What money the Bushes have managed to accumulate over three generations, they have accumulated through association, intermarriage, wheeling-dealing, and general ass-kissing with people who are really rich - much richer than they themselves have ever been. GHWB's fortune was smaller than Ronald Reagan's when he left the White House.
So Bush is torn: Kerry has lots and lots of money, and money is something that Bush likes and wants to get more of. Bush wants the money of people like John Kerry so badly that he has employed the likes of Karl Rove and gotten himself elected Preznit, and dedicated his presidency to ingratiating himself to really rich people, like his daddy before him. And his granddaddy before that (although Pres Bush appears to actually have had some political principles, of which the beautiful minds of the later generations have been blissfully free).
Now, W is indeed a useless, sniveling, cowardly, spoiled brat who has fucked up everything he has ever touched, but he has managed to kiss enough asses of really rich people (or really crooked people like Kenny Lay) to parlay connections that he was born with into what you and I would think of as quite a bit of money. Which is also pretty much what his father did after he left Washington.
So, you could say that, in a way, George W. Bush earned his millions. Kerry was pretty much just born into his.
By comparison, both Edwards and Cheney have had to work pretty hard; neither of them was born into a fortune or much in the way of connections. Whether it's fair to say that Edwards earned his money more honestly than Cheney his is a judgment that will probably eventually be made by history, although perhaps before then by the courts.
George Bush and Dick Cheney are obviously outraged by the amount of money their opponents have. This, in itself, is a suspicious motive. There are probably a lot of people out there for whom the mere knowledge that John Kerry is a hectomillionaire is enough justification to vote the other way. (There was a time in my life at which I was probably one of them.)
I have come around, however, to believing that what we so glibly call "public service" is indeed a service, which can be performed with greater or less success by people with greater or less talent and skill. The present administration has demonstrated itself in the last four years to be dangerously incompetent, and given that, I can think
I thought the earpiece story was just going to die, but apparently not. Is this video going around?
http://www.canofun.com/blog/
vide...dTheOddSync.wmv
Supposedly Bush's secret audio feed made it onto the CNN audio. You can hear a distinct voice giving verbal cues.
of a lot of billionaires I would sooner trust in the White House than George W. Fuckup.
of a lot of billionaires I would sooner trust in the White House than George W. Fuckup.
theodoric
if the rethugs succeed in getting ah-nuld past the constitution, wouldn't that mean that george soros could run as well?
Your vote, this election season,
Should be based on emotion, not on reason;
It's a cinch to decide,
When God's on your side,
"Facts", says the Chimp, "who needs 'em?"
..
It is my firm belief that Bush has little green army men in the basement of the White House
and plays war everyday up until his 7:00 PM bedtime. Bush didn't listen to his generals...it was Cheney that was calling the fucking shots.
This is Cheney's war and Bush is a little boy in an empty suit.
Fox is now cutting bases with the kerry camp and hedging their bets now - CNN is overprotecting its dem-leaning flank with it glass half-filled approach on the preznut - MSNBC is being sneakier by trying to pull in some Fox viewers who are getting annoyed with the sudden shift in kerry coverage
Love this analysis, It's all about the ratings.
We are completely on our own in this election. We've always known it, but after that debate and the spin by every media outlet, it's become not only unfair but absurd.
GOTV and hope it's not ripped by Diebold and all the other ways to stop people from having their votes counted.
I hope the traitors in big media enjoy the 30 pieces of silver.
Like Sumner Redstone (head of CBS/Viacom) said "I've been a life long Democrat, but voting for Bush is good for business".
Cheney's ever-enlarging tumor, usually called his head, is beginning to resemble the head of Darth Vader's when the helmet came off.
I think everyone -- and I mean everyone -- in this maladministration must get their advice from Homer Simpson (as told to Bart):
I want to share something with you -- the three little sentences that will get you through life:
Number one: "Cover for me."
Number two: "Oh, good idea boss."
Number three: "It was like that when I got here."
As we have seen, anyone who does not follow this advice, and dares to speak the truth -- Gen. Shinseki, Lawrence Lindsay, Paul O'Neill, -- gets shitcanned.
I am reminded of the incident Clarke related on 60 Minutes:
"The president dragged me into a room with a couple of other people, shut the door, and said, 'I want you to find whether Iraq did this.' Now he never said, 'Make it up.' But the entire conversation left me in absolutely no doubt that George Bush wanted me to come back with a report that said Iraq did this.
"I said, 'Mr. President. We've done this before. We have been looking at this. We looked at it with an open mind. There's no connection.'
"He came back at me and said, "Iraq! Saddam! Find out if there's a connection.' And in a very intimidating way. I mean that we should come back with that answer. We wrote a report."
Clarke continued, "It was a serious look. We got together all the FBI experts, all the CIA experts. We wrote the report. We sent the report out to CIA and found FBI and said, 'Will you sign this report?' They all cleared the report. And we sent it up to the president and it got bounced by the National Security Advisor or Deputy. It got bounced and sent back saying, 'Wrong answer. ... Do it again.'
"I have no idea, to this day, if the president saw it, because after we did it again, it came to the same conclusion. And frankly, I don't think the people around the president show him memos like that. I don't think he sees memos that he doesn't-- wouldn't like the answer."
The angry Bush we saw last night perfectly square with this picture of Bush.
Slam Dunk?
Bob Woodward reported that Bush told him that George Tenet said WMD case was a 'slam-dunk'. Has Tenet ever corroborated this? Maybe it was just mealy-mouthed excuse making. Do we believe Bush? Just because I keep hearing this, I wonder if anyone has ever checked it out.
Cheney's ever-enlarging tumor, usually called his head, is beginning to resemble the head of Darth Vader's when the helmet came off.
bebe rebozo
i was thinking more of jabba the hut
ps: love the bebe rebozon nick -- sweet!
heh, I love that name Novakula. Haven't heard that one yet, but I'm new here.
How come no one uses the term Repugnican? Its much more better than Rethugs :P
i was thinking more of jabba the hut
Syntallic-I think that is Rove but who knew sci fiction predicts politics?
Two Trouble Spots for Bush: Iraq and the Philly Suburbs (washingtonpost.com)
was going write something about this in the blog today -- because this Broder piece is cuts to the bone
the only disagreement I have with it is that it plays in most suburban areas, I sense, and it shouts one undeniable fact: when the clintonistas came aboard the kerry campaign, they vowed to separate iraq from the war on terror and they have succeeded: because without having done that, kerry couldn't have taken the lead in any battleground state
kudos to carville, begala, lockhart and mccurry -- it's now kerry's race to lose
heh, I love that name Novakula. Haven't heard that one yet, but I'm new here.
Mat
Try this one on for size (pic included) from the archive gonzography: Novakula Fell Down and He Can't Get Up
wish i could credit the "novakula" moniker with someone because it's a classic ... but I heard it here first and stole it! HA
rethug is the best way to define the GOP constituency - a blend of wingnuts and brownshirts
Slightly OT, is anyone else tired of the drug importation argument? The drugs are made HERE!
Well, not all the time.
But when the story last hit the news, there was a bit where they showed a pharm manufacturing facility in Ireland that made meds for export to the US and Canada. The difference (aside from the price at the end of the day)? The labels placed on the shipping containers.
An anecdote that bears on W's claim that none of his generals contradicted him:
Back in the 1950's, when Khruschev was visiting the United Nations, he held a press conference. Reporters passed up their questions, which were translated for Khruschev. One question asked Khruschev to explain his role during Stalin's regime. Khruschev immediately started yelling, demanding that the reporter who dared to ask him that question stand up and identify himself; no one did. At which point Khruschev stepped back and smiled and said "That's what I was doing during Stalin's rule."
Any one know anything about this so called "memo scandal" with ABC?
Scott Joplin?
Anonymous
The Greasy Palm Rag
The Bush Thief Rag
Elite Stinkopations
Hi Atrios!
Im writing massive numbers of letters to the editor. Can I use a few sentences of yours without crediting? Please?
Thanks...
I need help and original thought is hard to do after so many letters.
tim
wouldn't that mean that george soros could run as well?
yes. also peter frampton.
sheesh.
yes. also peter frampton.
And don't forget Rev. Moon, chosen by god to make up for Jesus' not taking over the world 2000 years ago.
Faux News is reporting that they have gotten a hold of some internal memo that suggests ABC is purposefully biased in its coverage of the campaign.
Moon's not a citizen.
Praise Jeezus.
Any one know anything about this so called "memo scandal" with ABC?
I don't know much, but I read the memo on Drudge and I don't understand where the scandal is. I thought it was a fine memo, basically said let's not pretend that the facts on the ground are "balanced" between the parties/candidates if they aren't. If both candidates are misleading, but Bush is much worse than Kerry, don't just say "Both candidates have been misleading."
Bush is on C-SPAN right now, and he's still doing that creepy thing with his jaw.
Basically, it seems to say "if Bush is more of a lying bastard than Kerry, go ahead and say so."
That was my take. Where's the scandal?
"Looking at Tommy Franks and the generals on the ground"
Hate to be the one to bring this up, but Tommy Franks wasn't a member of the Joints Chiefs of Staff.
I believe he was assigned to some role in the Pentagon, but not the JCS. In fact, Bush and Rumpsfeld used Franks to skirt around the JCS. Seems that they didn't want another Shinseki-type General..they wanted someone to shut-up and do what they were told without any questions.
Just another white lie brought to you by the Bush Admin
regards from the edge of the point of no return
.
Bush is on C-SPAN right now, and he's still doing that creepy thing with his jaw.
Duff Man (Oh yeah!)
The posts speculating about TD got me thinking, isn't this one of the effects of too much Thorazine? I wonder if the young Georgie might have been put on it to quell his troublesome behavior.
How do you go into the White House basement and look at "Tommy Franks and the generals on the ground"? If they are "on the ground" how could they be in the White House basement too? He also said they "looked him in the eye" which again sounds like they were together in the same room and not video conferencing.
Did he look Shinseki in the eye when he spoke or did he close his eyes tightly, stick his fingers in his ears and repeat over and over in a falsetto voice, "LaLaLaLa, LaLaLaLa!"?
Bush is on C-SPAN right now, and he's still doing that creepy thing with his jaw.
Duff Man (Oh yeah!)
The posts speculating about TD got me thinking, isn't this one of the effects of too much Thorazine? I wonder if the young Georgie might have been put on it to quell his troublesome behavior.
EPT
could be a case of the coke getting to him too
re: newpapers are siding with Bush ???
I've pretty much given up on basing any fact on what I read out of US papers. If I see something of interest, I research thru the foriegn papers to confirm...they usually do a pretty damn good job of vetting their material before they go to print.
Surprisingly, I found the Sydney Morning Hearld to be pretty sharp and on the ball, sometimes a couple of days ahead of the competition.
regards from the edge of the point of no return
.
I've photoshopped a pretty good Kerry v. Yosemite Sam debate shot, but need a spot to post it. Can anyone help out?
No scandal. If anything, it was saying, "Look, Bush is lying more, and about more important things, and we really can't let him get away with it anymore".
Oh, wait. That would be a scandal, if the SCLM was bought and paid for....
I thought the same thing. I was watching the end of the debate and post-debate spin on Fox (I was at a pizza place that had it on) and I was pretty surprised to hear this guy on Fox.
Like I said last night, I think that Murdoch has made the call to FAUX News, just like he turned his British newspaper editorial lines around in the run-up to the '97 election. Murdoch's no fool: if he smells defeat for Bush, he doesn't want his signature media voice on the wrong side.
Expect fewer invites for Ann Coulter, and more invites to Bill Kristol, who is probably already trying to formulate a way to 'neoconnize' an incoming Kerry administration.
The elephant in the room is that these soulless profiteers need beheading and regulation.
I like the order you put these requirements in. LOL.
Dammit Haloscan - that anony was me.
Lynne,
thanks for pointing that out
it takes a couple of minutes, but if you clear your cookies cache out after each vote and leave the CNN site, you can go back and vote again
and again -- kind of like an Afghani wiping the 'indelible ink' from their cuticle before going back to the ballot box
ain't democracy kewl?
I just got a chance to download the debate and watch it. What I heard via short-wave link and what I saw on the video were two very different debates.
Kerry just seemed to be an ordindary politican campaigning himself. Bush on the other hand was a completely different character.
What stood out on Bush was he was manuplative. He never answered a question directly. He threw out confussing figures and facts, some of which I knew from my readings were exagerated.
He kept denigrating Kerry with what were obviously false and misleading statements of "facts". For instance, the missed opportunties to vote on specific pieces of legislation. A little research indicates that the overwhelming Republican support on a lot of the legislative measures that Kerry wasn't present for didn't matter. It was being passsed/failed strictly by the Republican majority, so attendance wasn't mandatory. What's the point of showing up to get trounced and not being able to fight back?
In essence, Bush was not be truthful. Sad fact is that there are millions of people out there that lap this kinda stuff up and truly believe in Bush and his message. Therefore, I am of the opinion that Bush was using the debate to shore up his base by verbally assulting Kerry in public...kinda like a morale victory. Besides, this was the kinda format that Bush does his best at. Kerry was play and toyed with.
However, Keery did stand his ground and did shoot from the hip with deadly accuracy. Bush was bloodied up quite a bit. I did notice that when Kerry zinged him good, Bush would come back with something from Kerry's past as if it were a badge of shame. Seems Bush still has trouble taking it on the chin.
All in all, I'd have to give Bush good marks for his performance, but keep in mind he was playing to a specific audience, not the Nation as a whole. As for content, border-line D...he really sounded like a loser...not too Presidential.
Kerry on the otherhand would get excellent marks for statemanship, eloquence, and humility...all good qualities. His rheortic was in the B category and his delivery would be an A-minus. In short, Kerry was at ease with himself, the audience, the questions, and his answers. He still could use more help in breaking down his thoughts and ideas into simpler terms that can be more readily absorbed by the average voter he is trying to woo.
Just my 2 euro cents worth.
regards from the edge of the point of no return
.
Why does some intrepid mainstream reporter (say, from the NYT), not ask Shineski himself?
Gawd but I LOATHE HATE DESPISE DETEST that sniveling lying war criminal coward of a bastard bush. AND every one of his Cartel and their sniveling cowardly boot-licking bastard freeping rightwingnut pricks.
Hey rightwingnuts! BUSH CONNED YOU. He DUPED YOU ya fucking stupid RUBES. And yer SO STUPID you'll vote for him & allow him to KEEP ON CONNING YOU, ya fucking retards.
This Iraq war is a crime and immoral and completely based on lies. The soldiers there are dying for a mistake. Disobey you orders, don't reenlist, you will be dying for a war crime otherwise. The administration couldn't care less about another dead immigrant or misguided patriot. Every single soldier is cooperating in one big War Crime. So says the Pope. So says Kofi Annan. Its what 75% of the world knows and its why America is hated and will be hated even more UNLESS WE DEMOCRATS MAKE IT RIGHT!
MAKING IT RIGHT: (what Kerry can't say, but will happen anyway when we Democrats WIN)
1) Join the International War Crimes Tribunal in The Hague and indict the key architects of this war for War Crimes. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Powell. Find them guilty for the same thing Hitler did, invading a sovereign country illegally under false pretenses.
2) This acknowledgement and public trial of these criminals will do WORLDS to repair our broken reputation in the world. Only then, and directly because of #1) Kerry will have the credibility to bring our allies back. I'm talking about the Arab Countries, France and even Russia or China will contribute substantial troops and treasure to Iraq and RELIEVE OUR BATTERED AND OVERSTRECHED ARMIES!
That is the ONLY SOLUTION.
3)The US should pay repairations to Iraq, at least 100 billion dollars but THIS TIME IT DOESNT GO TO HALIBURTON CRONIES! But directly to the Democratically elected and LEGITIMATE Iraqi Government! Only then can the Iraqi people begin to forgive us.
4) Then pay compensation to all of the Iraqis we killed for this Illegal War and personally apologise to their families.
4) Then pay compensation to all of the Iraqis we killed for this Illegal War
It's too bad they're not alive to collect.
Gore Lawsuit Challenges Australian Election Results
(2004-10-09) -- Just hours after the polls closed across Australia, and Prime Minister John Howard headed for his fourth term, former U.S. Vice President Al Gore filed a lawsuit in international court at the Hague alleging "irregularities" in the balloting.
The election was seen by many as a referendum on Australia's participation in Operation Iraqi Freedom and the subsequent efforts to bring democracy to Iraq. Mr. Howard's opponent, Mark Latham, had promised to withdraw Australian troops from the Coalition.
"Somebody was disenfranchised or coerced down under," said Mr. Gore, now an itinerant professor. "John Howard betrayed his country. He played on their fears. There's no way they could have re-elected him legally. We'll fight this result all the way to the U.N. Security Council if need be."
Democrat presidential contender John Forbes Kerry expressed displeasure at the Australian election outcome.
"This is the wrong election result, in the wrong place at the wrong time," Mr. Kerry said. "Think of the precedent this sets."
A movie theater next to an Afghan restaurant in the Little Kabul area of Fremont, Calif., displays a sign thanking President Bush for the elections in Afghanistan.
Mr. President,
On Nov. 3, the whole country is going
to be looking at you like your clock is up.
Gore Lawsuit Challenges Australian Election Results
(2004-10-09) -- Just hours after the polls closed across Australia, and Prime Minister John Howard headed for his fourth term, former U.S. Vice President Al Gore filed a lawsuit in international court at the Hague alleging "irregularities" in the balloting.
The election was seen by many as a referendum on Australia's participation in Operation Iraqi Freedom and the subsequent efforts to bring democracy to Iraq. Mr. Howard's opponent, Mark Latham, had promised to withdraw Australian troops from the Coalition.
"Somebody was disenfranchised or coerced down under," said Mr. Gore, now an itinerant professor. "John Howard betrayed his country. He played on their fears. There's no way they could have re-elected him legally. We'll fight this result all the way to the U.N. Security Council if need be."
Democrat presidential contender John Forbes Kerry expressed displeasure at the Australian election outcome.
"This is the wrong election result, in the wrong place at the wrong time," Mr. Kerry said. "Think of the precedent this sets."
A movie theater next to an Afghan restaurant in the Little Kabul area of Fremont, Calif., displays a sign thanking President Bush for the elections in Afghanistan.
I have Gordon, aint it sweet?
I love the smell of victory!
GW is a hero to freedom loving people everywhere.
You nimrods should have to take an intelligence test before you are allowed anywhere near a voting booth.
This is why Bush has never been a successful man. Period.
Dave,
do you have thunbs?
-J.T.
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