I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
foist
foist
foist
I'd love to see a copy of the document that a reservist signs, to see how the government could justify something like that. Is the document really that open-ended?
I'd love to see a copy of the document that a reservist signs, to see how the government could justify something like that. Is the document really that open-ended?
I'd love to see a copy of the document that a reservist signs, to see how the government could justify something like that. Is the document really that open-ended?
I'm a little unclear on what this means - are people who are already enlisted in the National Guard for 2 years going to be subject to a 5 year stop loss? Or will newly enlisted personnel have to sign up for 5 years?
Or both?
I'm a little unclear on what this means - are people who are already enlisted in the National Guard for 2 years going to be subject to a 5 year stop loss? Or will newly enlisted personnel have to sign up for 5 years?
Or both?
I'm a little unclear on what this means - are people who are already enlisted in the National Guard for 2 years going to be subject to a 5 year stop loss? Or will newly enlisted personnel have to sign up for 5 years?
Or both?
Threadjack:
http://www.bend.com/news/
ar_view..._id^3D18712.htm
October 14 - MEDFORD – President Bush taught three Oregon schoolteachers a new lesson in irony – or tragedy – Thursday night when his campaign removed them from a Bush speech and threatened them with arrest simply for wearing t-shirts that said “Protect Our Civil Liberties,” the Democratic Party of Oregon reported.
Threadjack:
http://www.bend.com/news/
ar_view..._id^3D18712.htm
October 14 - MEDFORD – President Bush taught three Oregon schoolteachers a new lesson in irony – or tragedy – Thursday night when his campaign removed them from a Bush speech and threatened them with arrest simply for wearing t-shirts that said “Protect Our Civil Liberties,” the Democratic Party of Oregon reported.
Threadjack:
http://www.bend.com/news/
ar_view..._id^3D18712.htm
October 14 - MEDFORD – President Bush taught three Oregon schoolteachers a new lesson in irony – or tragedy – Thursday night when his campaign removed them from a Bush speech and threatened them with arrest simply for wearing t-shirts that said “Protect Our Civil Liberties,” the Democratic Party of Oregon reported.
Now watch reserve enlistments plummet. They'll need a draft for both the active military and the reserves.
Now watch reserve enlistments plummet. They'll need a draft for both the active military and the reserves.
Now watch reserve enlistments plummet. They'll need a draft for both the active military and the reserves.
...or does it mean that a reservist can be put on active duty for two years currently but will be on active duty for up to five years in the future???
...or does it mean that a reservist can be put on active duty for two years currently but will be on active duty for up to five years in the future???
...or does it mean that a reservist can be put on active duty for two years currently but will be on active duty for up to five years in the future???
Withnail - I've want to see one of those, too. I have a friend whose daughter married a guy just out of the marines a couple of years ago. Then he lost his civilian job, so he has re-enlisted in the Guard. He was asking me how the military could sign a contract with him for a certain amount of service time and then turn around and put a stop loss on his service and force him to stay in the guard for as long as they want him to. I don't know - I've never looked at a National Guard enlistment. I'd love to see one.
To me, someone signs a contract with the government to be in a service for a specific time period. I don't know what there is in the contract that allows the government to in effect change all the terms of the contract unilaterally. I know I don't really understand what is going on.
Withnail - I've want to see one of those, too. I have a friend whose daughter married a guy just out of the marines a couple of years ago. Then he lost his civilian job, so he has re-enlisted in the Guard. He was asking me how the military could sign a contract with him for a certain amount of service time and then turn around and put a stop loss on his service and force him to stay in the guard for as long as they want him to. I don't know - I've never looked at a National Guard enlistment. I'd love to see one.
To me, someone signs a contract with the government to be in a service for a specific time period. I don't know what there is in the contract that allows the government to in effect change all the terms of the contract unilaterally. I know I don't really understand what is going on.
Withnail - I've want to see one of those, too. I have a friend whose daughter married a guy just out of the marines a couple of years ago. Then he lost his civilian job, so he has re-enlisted in the Guard. He was asking me how the military could sign a contract with him for a certain amount of service time and then turn around and put a stop loss on his service and force him to stay in the guard for as long as they want him to. I don't know - I've never looked at a National Guard enlistment. I'd love to see one.
To me, someone signs a contract with the government to be in a service for a specific time period. I don't know what there is in the contract that allows the government to in effect change all the terms of the contract unilaterally. I know I don't really understand what is going on.
A couple of thoughts:
1) Can they do that? Legally?
2) Boy, this sure gives a new twist to "involuntary servitude," doesn't it?
A couple of thoughts:
1) Can they do that? Legally?
2) Boy, this sure gives a new twist to "involuntary servitude," doesn't it?
A couple of thoughts:
1) Can they do that? Legally?
2) Boy, this sure gives a new twist to "involuntary servitude," doesn't it?
In order to avoid the draft, they are strengthening the backdoor draft.
Makes sense to me.
In order to avoid the draft, they are strengthening the backdoor draft.
Makes sense to me.
In order to avoid the draft, they are strengthening the backdoor draft.
Makes sense to me.
I think that this means that when a reservist is pulled onto active duty theat he or she can be kept on active duty for up to five years. The giant sucking sound you're about to hear is the reserves emptying out
I think that this means that when a reservist is pulled onto active duty theat he or she can be kept on active duty for up to five years. The giant sucking sound you're about to hear is the reserves emptying out
I think that this means that when a reservist is pulled onto active duty theat he or she can be kept on active duty for up to five years. The giant sucking sound you're about to hear is the reserves emptying out
OT: the point which has been lost in the Mary Cheney thing is the President's intellectual arrogance: what Kerry might have meant was that if the President really wanted to know whether or not homosexuality was a choice, he has people nearby he could discretely ask, and yet apparently hasn't. Read my whole post.
OT: the point which has been lost in the Mary Cheney thing is the President's intellectual arrogance: what Kerry might have meant was that if the President really wanted to know whether or not homosexuality was a choice, he has people nearby he could discretely ask, and yet apparently hasn't. Read my whole post.
OT: the point which has been lost in the Mary Cheney thing is the President's intellectual arrogance: what Kerry might have meant was that if the President really wanted to know whether or not homosexuality was a choice, he has people nearby he could discretely ask, and yet apparently hasn't. Read my whole post.
Tena, this is a post-Sept 11 world. The govt having to live up to the terms of those contracts is soooo Sept 10.
Tena, this is a post-Sept 11 world. The govt having to live up to the terms of those contracts is soooo Sept 10.
Tena, this is a post-Sept 11 world. The govt having to live up to the terms of those contracts is soooo Sept 10.
Tena, this is a post-Sept 11 world. The govt having to live up to the terms of those contracts is soooo Sept 10.
Tena, this is a post-Sept 11 world. The govt having to live up to the terms of those contracts is soooo Sept 10.
Tena, this is a post-Sept 11 world. The govt having to live up to the terms of those contracts is soooo Sept 10.
Yes, they can do that legally, and yes they will have to do something like that in order to continue to pursue their imperial fantasies. At least that's obvious to those of us in the reality based community.
However, it won't work. It's a death spiral, because hardly anyone will join the guard or enlist in the regular army if it means spending 5 years in Iraq (and/or Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, whatever) getting your body parts blown off for the further aggrandizement of a demented sociopath. At least that's my humble prediction.
Yes, they can do that legally, and yes they will have to do something like that in order to continue to pursue their imperial fantasies. At least that's obvious to those of us in the reality based community.
However, it won't work. It's a death spiral, because hardly anyone will join the guard or enlist in the regular army if it means spending 5 years in Iraq (and/or Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, whatever) getting your body parts blown off for the further aggrandizement of a demented sociopath. At least that's my humble prediction.
Yes, they can do that legally, and yes they will have to do something like that in order to continue to pursue their imperial fantasies. At least that's obvious to those of us in the reality based community.
However, it won't work. It's a death spiral, because hardly anyone will join the guard or enlist in the regular army if it means spending 5 years in Iraq (and/or Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, whatever) getting your body parts blown off for the further aggrandizement of a demented sociopath. At least that's my humble prediction.
Who would've of thunk it? Bush a backdoor man.
Who would've of thunk it? Bush a backdoor man.
Who would've of thunk it? Bush a backdoor man.
Tena, without seeing the document, it's tough to draw any conclusions. But in a consumer context, as you may know, there's something called an adhesion contract. Sometimes courts will not enforce them against a consumer where there was no real bargaining before the contract was signed, and enforcement would be "unconscionable." In the military context, even if it were possible to make some kind of unconscionability argument, it's easy to imagine that a court would decline to get involved, because national security concerns are at issue (so the argument might go). I'm curious whether this has been tested in the courts.
Tena, without seeing the document, it's tough to draw any conclusions. But in a consumer context, as you may know, there's something called an adhesion contract. Sometimes courts will not enforce them against a consumer where there was no real bargaining before the contract was signed, and enforcement would be "unconscionable." In the military context, even if it were possible to make some kind of unconscionability argument, it's easy to imagine that a court would decline to get involved, because national security concerns are at issue (so the argument might go). I'm curious whether this has been tested in the courts.
Tena, without seeing the document, it's tough to draw any conclusions. But in a consumer context, as you may know, there's something called an adhesion contract. Sometimes courts will not enforce them against a consumer where there was no real bargaining before the contract was signed, and enforcement would be "unconscionable." In the military context, even if it were possible to make some kind of unconscionability argument, it's easy to imagine that a court would decline to get involved, because national security concerns are at issue (so the argument might go). I'm curious whether this has been tested in the courts.
Surprise surprise.
The Bush administration will do whatever it takes to reach the ends that they envision, there is no questioning of the means.
Don't worry folks, only two more weeks and these imperial assholes are gone like a bad dream.
Surprise surprise.
The Bush administration will do whatever it takes to reach the ends that they envision, there is no questioning of the means.
Don't worry folks, only two more weeks and these imperial assholes are gone like a bad dream.
Surprise surprise.
The Bush administration will do whatever it takes to reach the ends that they envision, there is no questioning of the means.
Don't worry folks, only two more weeks and these imperial assholes are gone like a bad dream.
Push the "draft" bitches and the Youth vote will swamp the Bushites. Anecdotal evidence in STL suggests this is a winner for Kerry.
Push the "draft" bitches and the Youth vote will swamp the Bushites. Anecdotal evidence in STL suggests this is a winner for Kerry.
Push the "draft" bitches and the Youth vote will swamp the Bushites. Anecdotal evidence in STL suggests this is a winner for Kerry.
The current law says that reservists can be called onto active duty for up to two years per operation - i.e., Operation Iraqi Freedom, Operation Enduring Freedom, etc - this would require a change of the law unless the President did it by Executive Order.
The current law says that reservists can be called onto active duty for up to two years per operation - i.e., Operation Iraqi Freedom, Operation Enduring Freedom, etc - this would require a change of the law unless the President did it by Executive Order.
The current law says that reservists can be called onto active duty for up to two years per operation - i.e., Operation Iraqi Freedom, Operation Enduring Freedom, etc - this would require a change of the law unless the President did it by Executive Order.
Whether this plan is "for real" or just a rumor.... who knows.
Bush has effectively destroyed the Guard and Reserves for at least a decade. Their recruiting abilities have been squashed by the fact that volunteers *are likely* to go active rather than be part-time, last line of defense, soldiers.
If you did not alrady know, almost half of the troops in Iraq are weekend warriors. And anybody who has served in the Guard and Reserved knows that you are the ugly red-headed step child with hand-me-downs, and little support.
Bush has fucked the Guard and Reserve, regardless of 2 years or 5.
Whether this plan is "for real" or just a rumor.... who knows.
Bush has effectively destroyed the Guard and Reserves for at least a decade. Their recruiting abilities have been squashed by the fact that volunteers *are likely* to go active rather than be part-time, last line of defense, soldiers.
If you did not alrady know, almost half of the troops in Iraq are weekend warriors. And anybody who has served in the Guard and Reserved knows that you are the ugly red-headed step child with hand-me-downs, and little support.
Bush has fucked the Guard and Reserve, regardless of 2 years or 5.
Whether this plan is "for real" or just a rumor.... who knows.
Bush has effectively destroyed the Guard and Reserves for at least a decade. Their recruiting abilities have been squashed by the fact that volunteers *are likely* to go active rather than be part-time, last line of defense, soldiers.
If you did not alrady know, almost half of the troops in Iraq are weekend warriors. And anybody who has served in the Guard and Reserved knows that you are the ugly red-headed step child with hand-me-downs, and little support.
Bush has fucked the Guard and Reserve, regardless of 2 years or 5.
Call what you want but it won't be voluntary military service. Most veterans would call it..........a draft. Does the Bush administration think the family of reservist are going to take this lying down. Kerry should be pointing this out NOW loud and clear.
Call what you want but it won't be voluntary military service. Most veterans would call it..........a draft. Does the Bush administration think the family of reservist are going to take this lying down. Kerry should be pointing this out NOW loud and clear.
Call what you want but it won't be voluntary military service. Most veterans would call it..........a draft. Does the Bush administration think the family of reservist are going to take this lying down. Kerry should be pointing this out NOW loud and clear.
On topic blog whoring
This one generated an interesting email exchange with a Pentagon based National Guard Colonel.
On topic blog whoring
This one generated an interesting email exchange with a Pentagon based National Guard Colonel.
On topic blog whoring
This one generated an interesting email exchange with a Pentagon based National Guard Colonel.
Also Pull the British troops out. They are not to be used as a pawn in the re-election efforts of a demented President. Keep your filthy paws off the Black Watch!
Also Pull the British troops out. They are not to be used as a pawn in the re-election efforts of a demented President. Keep your filthy paws off the Black Watch!
Also Pull the British troops out. They are not to be used as a pawn in the re-election efforts of a demented President. Keep your filthy paws off the Black Watch!
Brits out! hehehehhe. It is about time Blair pulls the rug out from Bush's re-election.
Brits out! hehehehhe. It is about time Blair pulls the rug out from Bush's re-election.
Brits out! hehehehhe. It is about time Blair pulls the rug out from Bush's re-election.
This is from a usatoday story last winter:
Congress first gave stop-loss authority to the military after the Vietnam War, when the Pentagon faced difficulty in replacing departing combat soldiers. The Pentagon didn't use the authority until 1990, during the buildup to the Persian Gulf War. All four service branches have issued stop-loss orders since then. The Pentagon issued stop- loss orders in November 2002 for Reserve and National Guard units activated for the war against terrorism. The orders remain in effect. A stop loss was issued for active troops in February 2003, but rescinded in May 2003.
-----
from a < a href="http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,FL_loss_092704,00.html">chicago tribune story cited on military.com:
The Pentagon issued its latest stop-loss order in June, forcing thousands of men and women to stay in the military and requiring many to return to combat duty well beyond their agreed-upon period of active service. The effect of the order has been that thousands of members of the all-volunteer armed forces no longer are serving voluntarily
---
I grew up around the military, though not too too close. My father was in the Army and then reserves for many years, from active duty in the Pacific at the end of World War II and later Korea, through years of National Guard service, riots, snow duty, etc. They used to treat draftees pretty badly, figuring they'd do their two years and be gone, if they survived Vietnam. But these guys (and women) should be longer term investments. If the current administration is treating its most loyal people, veterans, this way, tricking them into more active service than they wanted, we are in big trouble for the future. Really big trouble.
Wednesday, October 13, 2004
Stop loss of freedom
A lawsuit challenges extended tours of duty for National Guard members
Two members of the California National Guard have filed a suit contending that the military's controversial "stop-loss" program, which forces those whose enlistment is about to run out to stay in the military, is illegal when applied to National Guard soldiers. About 40,000 National Guard members are now deployed in Iraq.
"John Doe," identified only as a member of the 2668th Transportation Company and "married and the father of two young children," is about to become one of them. His unit left last Wednesday for training at Ft. Lewis in Washington state. It is expected to depart for Iraq in seven weeks or so.
Both "John Doe" and another National Guard member who filed suit in August are in the National Guard "Try One" program reserved for military veterans. The program allows veterans to bypass basic training while enjoying military education and family medical benefits for a one-year trial period. Before their one year was up, however, they were called under stop-loss orders for an 18-month tour that i
This is from a usatoday story last winter:
Congress first gave stop-loss authority to the military after the Vietnam War, when the Pentagon faced difficulty in replacing departing combat soldiers. The Pentagon didn't use the authority until 1990, during the buildup to the Persian Gulf War. All four service branches have issued stop-loss orders since then. The Pentagon issued stop- loss orders in November 2002 for Reserve and National Guard units activated for the war against terrorism. The orders remain in effect. A stop loss was issued for active troops in February 2003, but rescinded in May 2003.
-----
from a < a href="http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,FL_loss_092704,00.html">chicago tribune story cited on military.com:
The Pentagon issued its latest stop-loss order in June, forcing thousands of men and women to stay in the military and requiring many to return to combat duty well beyond their agreed-upon period of active service. The effect of the order has been that thousands of members of the all-volunteer armed forces no longer are serving voluntarily
---
I grew up around the military, though not too too close. My father was in the Army and then reserves for many years, from active duty in the Pacific at the end of World War II and later Korea, through years of National Guard service, riots, snow duty, etc. They used to treat draftees pretty badly, figuring they'd do their two years and be gone, if they survived Vietnam. But these guys (and women) should be longer term investments. If the current administration is treating its most loyal people, veterans, this way, tricking them into more active service than they wanted, we are in big trouble for the future. Really big trouble.
Wednesday, October 13, 2004
Stop loss of freedom
A lawsuit challenges extended tours of duty for National Guard members
Two members of the California National Guard have filed a suit contending that the military's controversial "stop-loss" program, which forces those whose enlistment is about to run out to stay in the military, is illegal when applied to National Guard soldiers. About 40,000 National Guard members are now deployed in Iraq.
"John Doe," identified only as a member of the 2668th Transportation Company and "married and the father of two young children," is about to become one of them. His unit left last Wednesday for training at Ft. Lewis in Washington state. It is expected to depart for Iraq in seven weeks or so.
Both "John Doe" and another National Guard member who filed suit in August are in the National Guard "Try One" program reserved for military veterans. The program allows veterans to bypass basic training while enjoying military education and family medical benefits for a one-year trial period. Before their one year was up, however, they were called under stop-loss orders for an 18-month tour that i
This is from a usatoday story last winter:
Congress first gave stop-loss authority to the military after the Vietnam War, when the Pentagon faced difficulty in replacing departing combat soldiers. The Pentagon didn't use the authority until 1990, during the buildup to the Persian Gulf War. All four service branches have issued stop-loss orders since then. The Pentagon issued stop- loss orders in November 2002 for Reserve and National Guard units activated for the war against terrorism. The orders remain in effect. A stop loss was issued for active troops in February 2003, but rescinded in May 2003.
-----
from a < a href="http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,FL_loss_092704,00.html">chicago tribune story cited on military.com:
The Pentagon issued its latest stop-loss order in June, forcing thousands of men and women to stay in the military and requiring many to return to combat duty well beyond their agreed-upon period of active service. The effect of the order has been that thousands of members of the all-volunteer armed forces no longer are serving voluntarily
---
I grew up around the military, though not too too close. My father was in the Army and then reserves for many years, from active duty in the Pacific at the end of World War II and later Korea, through years of National Guard service, riots, snow duty, etc. They used to treat draftees pretty badly, figuring they'd do their two years and be gone, if they survived Vietnam. But these guys (and women) should be longer term investments. If the current administration is treating its most loyal people, veterans, this way, tricking them into more active service than they wanted, we are in big trouble for the future. Really big trouble.
Wednesday, October 13, 2004
Stop loss of freedom
A lawsuit challenges extended tours of duty for National Guard members
Two members of the California National Guard have filed a suit contending that the military's controversial "stop-loss" program, which forces those whose enlistment is about to run out to stay in the military, is illegal when applied to National Guard soldiers. About 40,000 National Guard members are now deployed in Iraq.
"John Doe," identified only as a member of the 2668th Transportation Company and "married and the father of two young children," is about to become one of them. His unit left last Wednesday for training at Ft. Lewis in Washington state. It is expected to depart for Iraq in seven weeks or so.
Both "John Doe" and another National Guard member who filed suit in August are in the National Guard "Try One" program reserved for military veterans. The program allows veterans to bypass basic training while enjoying military education and family medical benefits for a one-year trial period. Before their one year was up, however, they were called under stop-loss orders for an 18-month tour that i
It will be an all-volunteer army. It's just that "Ve haf vays of making you volunteer."
It will be an all-volunteer army. It's just that "Ve haf vays of making you volunteer."
It will be an all-volunteer army. It's just that "Ve haf vays of making you volunteer."
sorry the last item got eaten; the link is here:
http://www.antiwar.com/ocregiste...r/
stoploss.html
sorry the last item got eaten; the link is here:
http://www.antiwar.com/ocregiste...r/
stoploss.html
sorry the last item got eaten; the link is here:
http://www.antiwar.com/ocregiste...r/
stoploss.html
Bush has fucked the Guard and Reserve, regardless of 2 years or 5.
def
Just in from Eye Rack... a friend of my son, who worked for me for a while, has been sent over to drive fuel trucks (yep, reservist, supply) in the desert. BTW, he's not in the 343 Quartemasters, TYVM. Get this - his truck broke down, dead. They left him there, alone, to guard the truck (they did leve him three m16s, though) until a wrecker or transfer truck could get there. Six hours later.
Yet another reservist for Kerry.
Bush has fucked the Guard and Reserve, regardless of 2 years or 5.
def
Just in from Eye Rack... a friend of my son, who worked for me for a while, has been sent over to drive fuel trucks (yep, reservist, supply) in the desert. BTW, he's not in the 343 Quartemasters, TYVM. Get this - his truck broke down, dead. They left him there, alone, to guard the truck (they did leve him three m16s, though) until a wrecker or transfer truck could get there. Six hours later.
Yet another reservist for Kerry.
Bush has fucked the Guard and Reserve, regardless of 2 years or 5.
def
Just in from Eye Rack... a friend of my son, who worked for me for a while, has been sent over to drive fuel trucks (yep, reservist, supply) in the desert. BTW, he's not in the 343 Quartemasters, TYVM. Get this - his truck broke down, dead. They left him there, alone, to guard the truck (they did leve him three m16s, though) until a wrecker or transfer truck could get there. Six hours later.
Yet another reservist for Kerry.
Please, God, let Bush lose on Nov. 2nd.
Otherwise, this nation is screwed.
Please, God, let Bush lose on Nov. 2nd.
Otherwise, this nation is screwed.
Please, God, let Bush lose on Nov. 2nd.
Otherwise, this nation is screwed.
Losing the war and peace
http://tinyurl.com/4vhr3
theaustralian.news.com.au
October 18, 2004
Excerpts:
THE US has lost the military initiative in Iraq and is in danger of losing the war. Eighteen months after coalition forces swept victoriously into Baghdad, a hard-pressed US occupying army is now facing a rapidly evolving guerilla war that it is singularly ill-equipped to surmount.
That's the view of coalition military experts who worry that the US army is undermanned and over-stretched, lacking the essential military skills to deal with a resourceful enemy holed up in Shia and Sunni strongholds across the country.
Britain's army chief, General Michael Jackson, admitted recently his troops were "back at war" in Iraq and flat out fighting a widening insurgency.
So serious is the deteriorating security situation in Iraq that, privately, coalition military leaders are contemplating strategies for eventual withdrawal from a war they admit probably cannot be won.
Those who doubt that the Iraq conflict is getting worse or characterise it as principally a counter-terrorism struggle, only have to read the dispatches of the ever-dwindling band of foreign correspondents still based in Baghdad.
Writing in The New York Times last week, Dexter Filkins, now a hardened veteran of the paper's Baghdad bureau, described Iraq as a shrinking country. "Village by village, block by block, the vast and challenging land that we entered in March 2003 has shrivelled into a medieval city-state, a grim and edgy place where the only question is how much more territory we will lose tomorrow. The real consequence of the mayhem here is that we reporters can no longer do our jobs in the way we hope to. Reporters are nothing more than watchers and listeners, and if we can't leave the house, the picture from Iraq, even with the help of fearless Iraqi stringers, almost inevitably will be blurry and incomplete."
Patrick Cockburn of London's Independent newspaper says the situation on the ground is far worse than portrayed in the media precisely because much of the country is now too dangerous for journalists to operate in. "I have spent most of the past year-and-a-half travelling in Iraq and I have never known it so bad," observes Cockburn. "The insurrection is spreading each month under its own momentum. It does so because the dominant fact in Iraqi politics is the overwhelming unpopularity of the US occupation."
Losing the war and peace
http://tinyurl.com/4vhr3
theaustralian.news.com.au
October 18, 2004
Excerpts:
THE US has lost the military initiative in Iraq and is in danger of losing the war. Eighteen months after coalition forces swept victoriously into Baghdad, a hard-pressed US occupying army is now facing a rapidly evolving guerilla war that it is singularly ill-equipped to surmount.
That's the view of coalition military experts who worry that the US army is undermanned and over-stretched, lacking the essential military skills to deal with a resourceful enemy holed up in Shia and Sunni strongholds across the country.
Britain's army chief, General Michael Jackson, admitted recently his troops were "back at war" in Iraq and flat out fighting a widening insurgency.
So serious is the deteriorating security situation in Iraq that, privately, coalition military leaders are contemplating strategies for eventual withdrawal from a war they admit probably cannot be won.
Those who doubt that the Iraq conflict is getting worse or characterise it as principally a counter-terrorism struggle, only have to read the dispatches of the ever-dwindling band of foreign correspondents still based in Baghdad.
Writing in The New York Times last week, Dexter Filkins, now a hardened veteran of the paper's Baghdad bureau, described Iraq as a shrinking country. "Village by village, block by block, the vast and challenging land that we entered in March 2003 has shrivelled into a medieval city-state, a grim and edgy place where the only question is how much more territory we will lose tomorrow. The real consequence of the mayhem here is that we reporters can no longer do our jobs in the way we hope to. Reporters are nothing more than watchers and listeners, and if we can't leave the house, the picture from Iraq, even with the help of fearless Iraqi stringers, almost inevitably will be blurry and incomplete."
Patrick Cockburn of London's Independent newspaper says the situation on the ground is far worse than portrayed in the media precisely because much of the country is now too dangerous for journalists to operate in. "I have spent most of the past year-and-a-half travelling in Iraq and I have never known it so bad," observes Cockburn. "The insurrection is spreading each month under its own momentum. It does so because the dominant fact in Iraqi politics is the overwhelming unpopularity of the US occupation."
Losing the war and peace
http://tinyurl.com/4vhr3
theaustralian.news.com.au
October 18, 2004
Excerpts:
THE US has lost the military initiative in Iraq and is in danger of losing the war. Eighteen months after coalition forces swept victoriously into Baghdad, a hard-pressed US occupying army is now facing a rapidly evolving guerilla war that it is singularly ill-equipped to surmount.
That's the view of coalition military experts who worry that the US army is undermanned and over-stretched, lacking the essential military skills to deal with a resourceful enemy holed up in Shia and Sunni strongholds across the country.
Britain's army chief, General Michael Jackson, admitted recently his troops were "back at war" in Iraq and flat out fighting a widening insurgency.
So serious is the deteriorating security situation in Iraq that, privately, coalition military leaders are contemplating strategies for eventual withdrawal from a war they admit probably cannot be won.
Those who doubt that the Iraq conflict is getting worse or characterise it as principally a counter-terrorism struggle, only have to read the dispatches of the ever-dwindling band of foreign correspondents still based in Baghdad.
Writing in The New York Times last week, Dexter Filkins, now a hardened veteran of the paper's Baghdad bureau, described Iraq as a shrinking country. "Village by village, block by block, the vast and challenging land that we entered in March 2003 has shrivelled into a medieval city-state, a grim and edgy place where the only question is how much more territory we will lose tomorrow. The real consequence of the mayhem here is that we reporters can no longer do our jobs in the way we hope to. Reporters are nothing more than watchers and listeners, and if we can't leave the house, the picture from Iraq, even with the help of fearless Iraqi stringers, almost inevitably will be blurry and incomplete."
Patrick Cockburn of London's Independent newspaper says the situation on the ground is far worse than portrayed in the media precisely because much of the country is now too dangerous for journalists to operate in. "I have spent most of the past year-and-a-half travelling in Iraq and I have never known it so bad," observes Cockburn. "The insurrection is spreading each month under its own momentum. It does so because the dominant fact in Iraqi politics is the overwhelming unpopularity of the US occupation."
I suggest forwarding a copy of the aforementioned email to Col.David Hackworth, (Ret) US Army via www.sftt.com
I suggest forwarding a copy of the aforementioned email to Col.David Hackworth, (Ret) US Army via www.sftt.com
I suggest forwarding a copy of the aforementioned email to Col.David Hackworth, (Ret) US Army via www.sftt.com
Five years? Look for a lot more than 19 soldiers to start refusing orders..
Five years? Look for a lot more than 19 soldiers to start refusing orders..
Five years? Look for a lot more than 19 soldiers to start refusing orders..
From the
Marine Corps
WHO IS AFFECTED BY STOP LOSS?
Under the current policy, all Marines, officer and enlisted, active and reserve components are affected by Stop Loss.
and
CAN MARINES EAS/ECC/EOS/RETIRE EARLIER THAT THE 12 MONTHS INVOLUNTARY EXTENSION?
The current Stop Loss policy does not dictate the length of time a Commander will involuntarily extend Marines. It only specifies that Marine's will not be held longer than 12 months from their original separation date. As the situation changes, Commanders may determine that the separation of a Marine will not have a negative impact upon the accomplishment of his mission
From the
Marine Corps
WHO IS AFFECTED BY STOP LOSS?
Under the current policy, all Marines, officer and enlisted, active and reserve components are affected by Stop Loss.
and
CAN MARINES EAS/ECC/EOS/RETIRE EARLIER THAT THE 12 MONTHS INVOLUNTARY EXTENSION?
The current Stop Loss policy does not dictate the length of time a Commander will involuntarily extend Marines. It only specifies that Marine's will not be held longer than 12 months from their original separation date. As the situation changes, Commanders may determine that the separation of a Marine will not have a negative impact upon the accomplishment of his mission
From the
Marine Corps
WHO IS AFFECTED BY STOP LOSS?
Under the current policy, all Marines, officer and enlisted, active and reserve components are affected by Stop Loss.
and
CAN MARINES EAS/ECC/EOS/RETIRE EARLIER THAT THE 12 MONTHS INVOLUNTARY EXTENSION?
The current Stop Loss policy does not dictate the length of time a Commander will involuntarily extend Marines. It only specifies that Marine's will not be held longer than 12 months from their original separation date. As the situation changes, Commanders may determine that the separation of a Marine will not have a negative impact upon the accomplishment of his mission
When a reservist signs a contract he/she says he/she will stay in the reserve for a certain number of years - usually 8 for officers, sometimes less for enlisted soldiers. Congress mandates that these troops can be used by the regular army on active duty for up to two years per operation. Then they have to be released to return home.
They can be mobilized again for another operations (i.e., sent to Afghanistan then to Iraq, since these are different operations), but in general, reservists get sent home after two eyars on active duty.
This plan would mean that these guys can be mobilized for up to five years.
This is a total betrayal.
When a reservist signs a contract he/she says he/she will stay in the reserve for a certain number of years - usually 8 for officers, sometimes less for enlisted soldiers. Congress mandates that these troops can be used by the regular army on active duty for up to two years per operation. Then they have to be released to return home.
They can be mobilized again for another operations (i.e., sent to Afghanistan then to Iraq, since these are different operations), but in general, reservists get sent home after two eyars on active duty.
This plan would mean that these guys can be mobilized for up to five years.
This is a total betrayal.
When a reservist signs a contract he/she says he/she will stay in the reserve for a certain number of years - usually 8 for officers, sometimes less for enlisted soldiers. Congress mandates that these troops can be used by the regular army on active duty for up to two years per operation. Then they have to be released to return home.
They can be mobilized again for another operations (i.e., sent to Afghanistan then to Iraq, since these are different operations), but in general, reservists get sent home after two eyars on active duty.
This plan would mean that these guys can be mobilized for up to five years.
This is a total betrayal.
Etaoin - I'll be very interested to hear what happens in that suit.
Adhesion contract - yah. I'd still like to see what someone signs when they enlist. I'd like to see what it says and if it provides for this governmental loophole that allows the government to hold people in bondage, essentially.
It was the same with my cousin's daughter. Her fiance was finished a term in the marines when they got engaged. He was supposed to be discharged after he returned from Iraq. The marines would not discharge him for almost a year pursuant to a stop loss order, though finally it did ( I guess he's lucky he wasn't in the National Guard.)
And by the way, isn't the "National Guard" called that for a reason? Aren't members supposed to be guarding the nation, which means here at home?
Etaoin - I'll be very interested to hear what happens in that suit.
Adhesion contract - yah. I'd still like to see what someone signs when they enlist. I'd like to see what it says and if it provides for this governmental loophole that allows the government to hold people in bondage, essentially.
It was the same with my cousin's daughter. Her fiance was finished a term in the marines when they got engaged. He was supposed to be discharged after he returned from Iraq. The marines would not discharge him for almost a year pursuant to a stop loss order, though finally it did ( I guess he's lucky he wasn't in the National Guard.)
And by the way, isn't the "National Guard" called that for a reason? Aren't members supposed to be guarding the nation, which means here at home?
Etaoin - I'll be very interested to hear what happens in that suit.
Adhesion contract - yah. I'd still like to see what someone signs when they enlist. I'd like to see what it says and if it provides for this governmental loophole that allows the government to hold people in bondage, essentially.
It was the same with my cousin's daughter. Her fiance was finished a term in the marines when they got engaged. He was supposed to be discharged after he returned from Iraq. The marines would not discharge him for almost a year pursuant to a stop loss order, though finally it did ( I guess he's lucky he wasn't in the National Guard.)
And by the way, isn't the "National Guard" called that for a reason? Aren't members supposed to be guarding the nation, which means here at home?
Remember this, and tell your children:
If you sign up for military service, you are effectively dead, until you get your discharge.
As the TI Sarges used to yell at boots: "Give yo soul to Gawd, prettyboys, cuz you Ay-ass b'longs to the Corps. Now FALL IN, you miserable pieces of crap...",
Remember this, and tell your children:
If you sign up for military service, you are effectively dead, until you get your discharge.
As the TI Sarges used to yell at boots: "Give yo soul to Gawd, prettyboys, cuz you Ay-ass b'longs to the Corps. Now FALL IN, you miserable pieces of crap...",
Remember this, and tell your children:
If you sign up for military service, you are effectively dead, until you get your discharge.
As the TI Sarges used to yell at boots: "Give yo soul to Gawd, prettyboys, cuz you Ay-ass b'longs to the Corps. Now FALL IN, you miserable pieces of crap...",
Man it's early - the part of my brain that controls grammar is still asleep.
"Her fiance was finishing a term..."
Man it's early - the part of my brain that controls grammar is still asleep.
"Her fiance was finishing a term..."
Man it's early - the part of my brain that controls grammar is still asleep.
"Her fiance was finishing a term..."
DD0004 enlistment form
10. MILITARY SERVICE OBLIGATION FOR ALL MEMBERS OF THE ACTIVE AND RESERVE COMPONENTS, INCLUDING THE NATIONAL GUARD.
a. FOR ALL ENLISTEES: If this is my initial enlistment, I must serve a total of eight (
years. Any part
of that service not served on active duty must be served in a Reserve Component unless I am sooner discharged.
b. If I am a member of a Reserve Component of an Armed Force at the beginning of a period of war or
national emergency declared by Congress, or if I become
a member during that period, my military service may be
extended without my consent until six (6) months after the end of that period of war.
c. As a member of a Reserve Component, in time of war or national emergency declared by the Congress, I may be required to serve on active duty (other than for training) for the entire period of the war or emergency
and for six (6) months after its end.
DD0004 enlistment form
10. MILITARY SERVICE OBLIGATION FOR ALL MEMBERS OF THE ACTIVE AND RESERVE COMPONENTS, INCLUDING THE NATIONAL GUARD.
a. FOR ALL ENLISTEES: If this is my initial enlistment, I must serve a total of eight ( years. Any part
of that service not served on active duty must be served in a Reserve Component unless I am sooner discharged.
b. If I am a member of a Reserve Component of an Armed Force at the beginning of a period of war or
national emergency declared by Congress, or if I become
a member during that period, my military service may be
extended without my consent until six (6) months after the end of that period of war.
c. As a member of a Reserve Component, in time of war or national emergency declared by the Congress, I may be required to serve on active duty (other than for training) for the entire period of the war or emergency
and for six (6) months after its end.
DD0004 enlistment form
10. MILITARY SERVICE OBLIGATION FOR ALL MEMBERS OF THE ACTIVE AND RESERVE COMPONENTS, INCLUDING THE NATIONAL GUARD.
a. FOR ALL ENLISTEES: If this is my initial enlistment, I must serve a total of eight ( years. Any part
of that service not served on active duty must be served in a Reserve Component unless I am sooner discharged.
b. If I am a member of a Reserve Component of an Armed Force at the beginning of a period of war or
national emergency declared by Congress, or if I become
a member during that period, my military service may be
extended without my consent until six (6) months after the end of that period of war.
c. As a member of a Reserve Component, in time of war or national emergency declared by the Congress, I may be required to serve on active duty (other than for training) for the entire period of the war or emergency
and for six (6) months after its end.
If you sign up for military service, you are effectively dead, until you get your discharge.
Nahhh. tack on a couple years of ready reserve duty. And if you're an officer who does not resign your commission, you're screwed for life.
If you sign up for military service, you are effectively dead, until you get your discharge.
Nahhh. tack on a couple years of ready reserve duty. And if you're an officer who does not resign your commission, you're screwed for life.
If you sign up for military service, you are effectively dead, until you get your discharge.
Nahhh. tack on a couple years of ready reserve duty. And if you're an officer who does not resign your commission, you're screwed for life.
DD0004 (con't)
d. As a member of the Ready Reserve I may be required to perform active duty or active duty for training without my consent (other than as provided in
item 8 of this document) as follows:
(1) in time of national emergency declared by the President of the United States, I may be ordered to
active duty (other than for training) for not more than 24 consecutive months.
(2) I may be ordered to active duty for 24 months, and my enlistment may be extended so I can complete 24 months of active duty, if:
(a) I am not assigned to, or participating satisfactorily
in, a unit of the Ready Reserve; and
(b) I have not met my Reserve obligation; and
(c) I have not served on active duty for a total of 24 months.
(3) I may be ordered to perform additional active duty training for not more than 45 days if I have not fulfilled my military service obligation and fail in any year to perform the required training duty satisfactorily.
If the failure occurs during the last year of my required membership in the Ready Reserve, my enlistment may be extended until I perform that
additional duty, but not for more than six months.
DD0004 (con't)
d. As a member of the Ready Reserve I may be required to perform active duty or active duty for training without my consent (other than as provided in
item 8 of this document) as follows:
(1) in time of national emergency declared by the President of the United States, I may be ordered to
active duty (other than for training) for not more than 24 consecutive months.
(2) I may be ordered to active duty for 24 months, and my enlistment may be extended so I can complete 24 months of active duty, if:
(a) I am not assigned to, or participating satisfactorily
in, a unit of the Ready Reserve; and
(b) I have not met my Reserve obligation; and
(c) I have not served on active duty for a total of 24 months.
(3) I may be ordered to perform additional active duty training for not more than 45 days if I have not fulfilled my military service obligation and fail in any year to perform the required training duty satisfactorily.
If the failure occurs during the last year of my required membership in the Ready Reserve, my enlistment may be extended until I perform that
additional duty, but not for more than six months.
DD0004 (con't)
d. As a member of the Ready Reserve I may be required to perform active duty or active duty for training without my consent (other than as provided in
item 8 of this document) as follows:
(1) in time of national emergency declared by the President of the United States, I may be ordered to
active duty (other than for training) for not more than 24 consecutive months.
(2) I may be ordered to active duty for 24 months, and my enlistment may be extended so I can complete 24 months of active duty, if:
(a) I am not assigned to, or participating satisfactorily
in, a unit of the Ready Reserve; and
(b) I have not met my Reserve obligation; and
(c) I have not served on active duty for a total of 24 months.
(3) I may be ordered to perform additional active duty training for not more than 45 days if I have not fulfilled my military service obligation and fail in any year to perform the required training duty satisfactorily.
If the failure occurs during the last year of my required membership in the Ready Reserve, my enlistment may be extended until I perform that
additional duty, but not for more than six months.
A fraggin' we will go
A fraggin' we will go
Hi Ho the derry o'
A fraggin' we will go
Under the tent at night
Under the tent at night
Pull the pin and let 'er roll
Under the tent at night
A fraggin' we will go
A fraggin' we will go
Hi Ho the derry o'
A fraggin' we will go
Under the tent at night
Under the tent at night
Pull the pin and let 'er roll
Under the tent at night
A fraggin' we will go
A fraggin' we will go
Hi Ho the derry o'
A fraggin' we will go
Under the tent at night
Under the tent at night
Pull the pin and let 'er roll
Under the tent at night
They're the government. They can do anything they want and there's not much we can do about it.
If you're in the guard or reserves and chimpy is selected- well, you're basically fucked.
So sorry. Have I mentioned lately that I really hate these fuckers?
They're the government. They can do anything they want and there's not much we can do about it.
If you're in the guard or reserves and chimpy is selected- well, you're basically fucked.
So sorry. Have I mentioned lately that I really hate these fuckers?
They're the government. They can do anything they want and there's not much we can do about it.
If you're in the guard or reserves and chimpy is selected- well, you're basically fucked.
So sorry. Have I mentioned lately that I really hate these fuckers?
BOHICA, thanks for posting contract terms. They aren't pretty.
BOHICA, thanks for posting contract terms. They aren't pretty.
BOHICA, thanks for posting contract terms. They aren't pretty.
Isn't it more immoral to hold people who have already served in the military than to ask those who haven't to serve their country? The draft is more moral than treaty troops this badly.
Isn't it more immoral to hold people who have already served in the military than to ask those who haven't to serve their country? The draft is more moral than treaty troops this badly.
Isn't it more immoral to hold people who have already served in the military than to ask those who haven't to serve their country? The draft is more moral than treaty troops this badly.
Isn't it more immoral to hold people who have already served in the military than to ask those who haven't to serve their country? The draft is more moral than treaty troops this badly.
Isn't it more immoral to hold people who have already served in the military than to ask those who haven't to serve their country? The draft is more moral than treaty troops this badly.
Isn't it more immoral to hold people who have already served in the military than to ask those who haven't to serve their country? The draft is more moral than treaty troops this badly.
Isn't it more immoral to hold people who have already served in the military than to ask those who haven't to serve their country? The draft is more moral than treaty troops this badly.
Isn't it more immoral to hold people who have already served in the military than to ask those who haven't to serve their country? The draft is more moral than treaty troops this badly.
Isn't it more immoral to hold people who have already served in the military than to ask those who haven't to serve their country? The draft is more moral than treaty troops this badly.
BOHICA?
Bend over, here it comes again...
See you in the movies, bubba...
BOHICA?
Bend over, here it comes again...
See you in the movies, bubba...
BOHICA?
Bend over, here it comes again...
See you in the movies, bubba...
Waist Deep in Messy Potamia
It was back in twenty oh-four,
I was a member of a good platoon.
We were plain reservists in-a Baghdad,
One day in the middle of this war
The captain told us to hump some fuel,
That's how it all begun.
We were -- knee deep in Messy Potamia,
But the big fool said to push on.
The Sergeant said, "Sir, are you sure?
We don't have arms or armor!"
"Sergeant, go on! It's a cake walk
'Bout fifteen miles north to Taji.
There'll be a little sniping but just keep driving.
We'll soon be to the next base."
We were -- waist deep in Messy Potamia
And the big fool said to push on.
The Sergeant said, "Sir, the fuel is spoiled
the last base didn't want it."
"Sergeant, don't you contradict me,"
The Captain said to him.
"They can use this fuel in Taji;
Men, I'll lead - follow me."
We were -- neck deep in Messy Potamia
And the big fool said to push on.
We went and caught an RPG,
We heard a gurgling cry.
A microsecond later, the captain's head
Was all that flew by.
The Sergeant said, "Turn around men!
I'm in charge from now on."
And we just made it out of the desert
With the captain dead and gone.
Well, I'm not going to point any moral;
I'll leave that for yourself
Maybe you're still walking, you're still talking
You'd like to keep your health.
But every time I read the blogs
That old feeling comes on;
We're -- waist deep in Messy Potamia
And the big fool says to push on.
Waist deep in Messy Potamia
And the big fool says to push on.
Waist deep in Messy Potamia
And the big fool says to push on.
Waist deep! Neck deep! Soon even a
Tall man'll be over his head, we're
Waist deep in Messy Potamia!
And the big fool says to push on!
-- Apologies to Pete Seeger
Waist Deep in Messy Potamia
It was back in twenty oh-four,
I was a member of a good platoon.
We were plain reservists in-a Baghdad,
One day in the middle of this war
The captain told us to hump some fuel,
That's how it all begun.
We were -- knee deep in Messy Potamia,
But the big fool said to push on.
The Sergeant said, "Sir, are you sure?
We don't have arms or armor!"
"Sergeant, go on! It's a cake walk
'Bout fifteen miles north to Taji.
There'll be a little sniping but just keep driving.
We'll soon be to the next base."
We were -- waist deep in Messy Potamia
And the big fool said to push on.
The Sergeant said, "Sir, the fuel is spoiled
the last base didn't want it."
"Sergeant, don't you contradict me,"
The Captain said to him.
"They can use this fuel in Taji;
Men, I'll lead - follow me."
We were -- neck deep in Messy Potamia
And the big fool said to push on.
We went and caught an RPG,
We heard a gurgling cry.
A microsecond later, the captain's head
Was all that flew by.
The Sergeant said, "Turn around men!
I'm in charge from now on."
And we just made it out of the desert
With the captain dead and gone.
Well, I'm not going to point any moral;
I'll leave that for yourself
Maybe you're still walking, you're still talking
You'd like to keep your health.
But every time I read the blogs
That old feeling comes on;
We're -- waist deep in Messy Potamia
And the big fool says to push on.
Waist deep in Messy Potamia
And the big fool says to push on.
Waist deep in Messy Potamia
And the big fool says to push on.
Waist deep! Neck deep! Soon even a
Tall man'll be over his head, we're
Waist deep in Messy Potamia!
And the big fool says to push on!
-- Apologies to Pete Seeger
Waist Deep in Messy Potamia
It was back in twenty oh-four,
I was a member of a good platoon.
We were plain reservists in-a Baghdad,
One day in the middle of this war
The captain told us to hump some fuel,
That's how it all begun.
We were -- knee deep in Messy Potamia,
But the big fool said to push on.
The Sergeant said, "Sir, are you sure?
We don't have arms or armor!"
"Sergeant, go on! It's a cake walk
'Bout fifteen miles north to Taji.
There'll be a little sniping but just keep driving.
We'll soon be to the next base."
We were -- waist deep in Messy Potamia
And the big fool said to push on.
The Sergeant said, "Sir, the fuel is spoiled
the last base didn't want it."
"Sergeant, don't you contradict me,"
The Captain said to him.
"They can use this fuel in Taji;
Men, I'll lead - follow me."
We were -- neck deep in Messy Potamia
And the big fool said to push on.
We went and caught an RPG,
We heard a gurgling cry.
A microsecond later, the captain's head
Was all that flew by.
The Sergeant said, "Turn around men!
I'm in charge from now on."
And we just made it out of the desert
With the captain dead and gone.
Well, I'm not going to point any moral;
I'll leave that for yourself
Maybe you're still walking, you're still talking
You'd like to keep your health.
But every time I read the blogs
That old feeling comes on;
We're -- waist deep in Messy Potamia
And the big fool says to push on.
Waist deep in Messy Potamia
And the big fool says to push on.
Waist deep in Messy Potamia
And the big fool says to push on.
Waist deep! Neck deep! Soon even a
Tall man'll be over his head, we're
Waist deep in Messy Potamia!
And the big fool says to push on!
-- Apologies to Pete Seeger
Robert...
all ya gotta do is press the OK button once...it's a little slow, so be patient...
Robert...
all ya gotta do is press the OK button once...it's a little slow, so be patient...
Robert...
all ya gotta do is press the OK button once...it's a little slow, so be patient...
Robert, just click the "OK" button below where you write your comments.
Robert, just click the "OK" button below where you write your comments.
Robert, just click the "OK" button below where you write your comments.
Well, provision b. seems to be the one - and that says that they can keep your ass until 6 months after the war is over. Holy shit - we're going to have National Guard who are over in Iraq when they turn 65 at this rate.
Holy shit.
Well, provision b. seems to be the one - and that says that they can keep your ass until 6 months after the war is over. Holy shit - we're going to have National Guard who are over in Iraq when they turn 65 at this rate.
Holy shit.
Well, provision b. seems to be the one - and that says that they can keep your ass until 6 months after the war is over. Holy shit - we're going to have National Guard who are over in Iraq when they turn 65 at this rate.
Holy shit.
Presumably only people with "critical skills" like ability to pull a trigger and drive unarmored fuel trucks will be affected, though.
Presumably only people with "critical skills" like ability to pull a trigger and drive unarmored fuel trucks will be affected, though.
Presumably only people with "critical skills" like ability to pull a trigger and drive unarmored fuel trucks will be affected, though.
The way it's going, I might get called back. But since I was a Weapons of Mass Destruction specialist in the Army or as it was called, NBC (nuclear, biological, chemical), probably not.
The way it's going, I might get called back. But since I was a Weapons of Mass Destruction specialist in the Army or as it was called, NBC (nuclear, biological, chemical), probably not.
The way it's going, I might get called back. But since I was a Weapons of Mass Destruction specialist in the Army or as it was called, NBC (nuclear, biological, chemical), probably not.
"In mid-October, the Pentagon said that the total of Army National Guard and Army Reserve members deployed had been increased to 146,671. Other Guard and Reserve services reported deployments in October as follows: Naval Reserve, 3,771; Air National Guard and Air Force Reserve, 10,283; Marine Corps Reserve, 11,495; and Coast Guard Reserve, 1,515. That brings the total Guard and Reserve personnel mobilized to 173,735."
And my current personal favorite -
"Feds not only 1 that can draft
AZ Republic
Oct. 12, 2004 12:00 AM
Scottsdale residents might not know it, but many of them are subject to military service....
Everything already is in place, however, for the state to put citizens into military ranks. All it takes is a proclamation by the governor.
The state draft is embodied in the militia clause of the Arizona Constitution, declaring that all "capable citizens" between ages 18 and 45 are members of the unorganized militia. Women are included. State law further provides that those in the unorganized militia must, on order of the governor, report to county recorders to be "enrolled." From rolls prepared by the recorders, the number of Arizonans needed for military duty will be "selected by lot" and assigned to a military commander designated by the governor.
....
the unorganized militia hasn't been enrolled since Arizona became a territory in 1863 and a state in 1912. During quite a few of those years, Geronimo, other hostile Indians and outlaw gangs were rampaging in these parts, creating an enduring emergency if ever there was one."
Yet another reason to ensure a Democratic Governorship.
"In mid-October, the Pentagon said that the total of Army National Guard and Army Reserve members deployed had been increased to 146,671. Other Guard and Reserve services reported deployments in October as follows: Naval Reserve, 3,771; Air National Guard and Air Force Reserve, 10,283; Marine Corps Reserve, 11,495; and Coast Guard Reserve, 1,515. That brings the total Guard and Reserve personnel mobilized to 173,735."
And my current personal favorite -
"Feds not only 1 that can draft
AZ Republic
Oct. 12, 2004 12:00 AM
Scottsdale residents might not know it, but many of them are subject to military service....
Everything already is in place, however, for the state to put citizens into military ranks. All it takes is a proclamation by the governor.
The state draft is embodied in the militia clause of the Arizona Constitution, declaring that all "capable citizens" between ages 18 and 45 are members of the unorganized militia. Women are included. State law further provides that those in the unorganized militia must, on order of the governor, report to county recorders to be "enrolled." From rolls prepared by the recorders, the number of Arizonans needed for military duty will be "selected by lot" and assigned to a military commander designated by the governor.
....
the unorganized militia hasn't been enrolled since Arizona became a territory in 1863 and a state in 1912. During quite a few of those years, Geronimo, other hostile Indians and outlaw gangs were rampaging in these parts, creating an enduring emergency if ever there was one."
Yet another reason to ensure a Democratic Governorship.
"In mid-October, the Pentagon said that the total of Army National Guard and Army Reserve members deployed had been increased to 146,671. Other Guard and Reserve services reported deployments in October as follows: Naval Reserve, 3,771; Air National Guard and Air Force Reserve, 10,283; Marine Corps Reserve, 11,495; and Coast Guard Reserve, 1,515. That brings the total Guard and Reserve personnel mobilized to 173,735."
And my current personal favorite -
"Feds not only 1 that can draft
AZ Republic
Oct. 12, 2004 12:00 AM
Scottsdale residents might not know it, but many of them are subject to military service....
Everything already is in place, however, for the state to put citizens into military ranks. All it takes is a proclamation by the governor.
The state draft is embodied in the militia clause of the Arizona Constitution, declaring that all "capable citizens" between ages 18 and 45 are members of the unorganized militia. Women are included. State law further provides that those in the unorganized militia must, on order of the governor, report to county recorders to be "enrolled." From rolls prepared by the recorders, the number of Arizonans needed for military duty will be "selected by lot" and assigned to a military commander designated by the governor.
....
the unorganized militia hasn't been enrolled since Arizona became a territory in 1863 and a state in 1912. During quite a few of those years, Geronimo, other hostile Indians and outlaw gangs were rampaging in these parts, creating an enduring emergency if ever there was one."
Yet another reason to ensure a Democratic Governorship.
BOHICA - ancronym for 'bend over here it comes again'.
A standard Marine Corps term. See also 'the green weenie'. Commonly used in conjuntion with each other.
BOHICA - ancronym for 'bend over here it comes again'.
A standard Marine Corps term. See also 'the green weenie'. Commonly used in conjuntion with each other.
BOHICA - ancronym for 'bend over here it comes again'.
A standard Marine Corps term. See also 'the green weenie'. Commonly used in conjuntion with each other.
Every National Guardsmen should be proud to have his or her service extended - just like Bush got his shortened when he was refusing orders to take a physical.
Every National Guardsmen should be proud to have his or her service extended - just like Bush got his shortened when he was refusing orders to take a physical.
Every National Guardsmen should be proud to have his or her service extended - just like Bush got his shortened when he was refusing orders to take a physical.
This morning on NPR some Lord High Muckety Muck (a Brig. General, IIRC, but frankly military rank means nada to yours truly; anyway, I think he was in charge of all Iraqi troops, or some such position) was talking about the unit that refused to drive the "suicide mission."
The upshot was, he praised the brave truck drivers who, every day, get into their truck cabs knowing it's a question of "when," not "if," they will be attacked.
Which meant, in essence, that mission, and every other transport mission in Iraq, is a suicide mission.
But I was left thinking: how bad must troop morale be if the Lord High Muckety Muck has to go public praising the bravery of truck drivers?
Support our troops? How 'bout bring 'em the hell home as "support"? And upping reservists for 5 years, from 2? Yeah, that'll help morale.....
Tell me again what "support our troops" means?
This morning on NPR some Lord High Muckety Muck (a Brig. General, IIRC, but frankly military rank means nada to yours truly; anyway, I think he was in charge of all Iraqi troops, or some such position) was talking about the unit that refused to drive the "suicide mission."
The upshot was, he praised the brave truck drivers who, every day, get into their truck cabs knowing it's a question of "when," not "if," they will be attacked.
Which meant, in essence, that mission, and every other transport mission in Iraq, is a suicide mission.
But I was left thinking: how bad must troop morale be if the Lord High Muckety Muck has to go public praising the bravery of truck drivers?
Support our troops? How 'bout bring 'em the hell home as "support"? And upping reservists for 5 years, from 2? Yeah, that'll help morale.....
Tell me again what "support our troops" means?
This morning on NPR some Lord High Muckety Muck (a Brig. General, IIRC, but frankly military rank means nada to yours truly; anyway, I think he was in charge of all Iraqi troops, or some such position) was talking about the unit that refused to drive the "suicide mission."
The upshot was, he praised the brave truck drivers who, every day, get into their truck cabs knowing it's a question of "when," not "if," they will be attacked.
Which meant, in essence, that mission, and every other transport mission in Iraq, is a suicide mission.
But I was left thinking: how bad must troop morale be if the Lord High Muckety Muck has to go public praising the bravery of truck drivers?
Support our troops? How 'bout bring 'em the hell home as "support"? And upping reservists for 5 years, from 2? Yeah, that'll help morale.....
Tell me again what "support our troops" means?
BOHICA - ancronym for 'bend over here it comes again'.
This situation demands the return of "FUBAR!"
BOHICA - ancronym for 'bend over here it comes again'.
This situation demands the return of "FUBAR!"
BOHICA - ancronym for 'bend over here it comes again'.
This situation demands the return of "FUBAR!"
Extending reservist tours of duty is one alternative, but I other which is more in line with the Bushies methodology is ... more contract military related work. I believe we will see a continued proliferation of 'duties' performed under no-bid contracts by the likes of Halliburton/KBR.
Extending reservist tours of duty is one alternative, but I other which is more in line with the Bushies methodology is ... more contract military related work. I believe we will see a continued proliferation of 'duties' performed under no-bid contracts by the likes of Halliburton/KBR.
Extending reservist tours of duty is one alternative, but I other which is more in line with the Bushies methodology is ... more contract military related work. I believe we will see a continued proliferation of 'duties' performed under no-bid contracts by the likes of Halliburton/KBR.
I was talking to an Air Force reservist just this Saturday who was telling me the same thing. He left the AF after 10 years, signed on as a Reservist and was immediately recalled to active duty for 2 years. He told me the Pres can at any time extend his time to 5 years and there's nothing he can do about it. Since he's technically a reservist, his family gets no housing and terrible health coverage. He's solidly for Kerry.
Then yesterday I met a new work-study student at the college library where I do my Biblio-ing. She has a 20 year old fiance in the Marines, stationed in NC somewhere. She told me all the guys she knows down there are big Kerry supporters. She has quite a few high school pals who've been shot up in Iraq and she just sounds disgusted. She and her fiance are planning on getting hitched soon so if he does go overseas she can have spousal benefits.
One interesting tidbit she told me was that a rumor was going around the base that Kerry wanted to dissolve the Marines and spread them out as special forces around the other branches. I told her that was bull and she said that her step-mom was a Kerry volunteer who'd already set the guys straight. Dirty tricks?
Anyway, it was my first encounter with military folks and it was depressing but heartening to hear that they know what's what and will vote accordingly.
I was talking to an Air Force reservist just this Saturday who was telling me the same thing. He left the AF after 10 years, signed on as a Reservist and was immediately recalled to active duty for 2 years. He told me the Pres can at any time extend his time to 5 years and there's nothing he can do about it. Since he's technically a reservist, his family gets no housing and terrible health coverage. He's solidly for Kerry.
Then yesterday I met a new work-study student at the college library where I do my Biblio-ing. She has a 20 year old fiance in the Marines, stationed in NC somewhere. She told me all the guys she knows down there are big Kerry supporters. She has quite a few high school pals who've been shot up in Iraq and she just sounds disgusted. She and her fiance are planning on getting hitched soon so if he does go overseas she can have spousal benefits.
One interesting tidbit she told me was that a rumor was going around the base that Kerry wanted to dissolve the Marines and spread them out as special forces around the other branches. I told her that was bull and she said that her step-mom was a Kerry volunteer who'd already set the guys straight. Dirty tricks?
Anyway, it was my first encounter with military folks and it was depressing but heartening to hear that they know what's what and will vote accordingly.
I was talking to an Air Force reservist just this Saturday who was telling me the same thing. He left the AF after 10 years, signed on as a Reservist and was immediately recalled to active duty for 2 years. He told me the Pres can at any time extend his time to 5 years and there's nothing he can do about it. Since he's technically a reservist, his family gets no housing and terrible health coverage. He's solidly for Kerry.
Then yesterday I met a new work-study student at the college library where I do my Biblio-ing. She has a 20 year old fiance in the Marines, stationed in NC somewhere. She told me all the guys she knows down there are big Kerry supporters. She has quite a few high school pals who've been shot up in Iraq and she just sounds disgusted. She and her fiance are planning on getting hitched soon so if he does go overseas she can have spousal benefits.
One interesting tidbit she told me was that a rumor was going around the base that Kerry wanted to dissolve the Marines and spread them out as special forces around the other branches. I told her that was bull and she said that her step-mom was a Kerry volunteer who'd already set the guys straight. Dirty tricks?
Anyway, it was my first encounter with military folks and it was depressing but heartening to hear that they know what's what and will vote accordingly.
Robert MJ - Another example of reality vs. the Bush Fantasy - "supporting the troops" really means on the one hand supporting the government's right to get as many troops killed as possible vs. supporting getting these people back home where they should be.
And that's what "support the troops" means in Bush's America - either you support the troops as cannon fodder or as human beings.
Robert MJ - Another example of reality vs. the Bush Fantasy - "supporting the troops" really means on the one hand supporting the government's right to get as many troops killed as possible vs. supporting getting these people back home where they should be.
And that's what "support the troops" means in Bush's America - either you support the troops as cannon fodder or as human beings.
Robert MJ - Another example of reality vs. the Bush Fantasy - "supporting the troops" really means on the one hand supporting the government's right to get as many troops killed as possible vs. supporting getting these people back home where they should be.
And that's what "support the troops" means in Bush's America - either you support the troops as cannon fodder or as human beings.
They're the government. They can do anything they want and there's not much we can do about it.
four legs good
Yes, we can. We can fire George "Jim Jones" Bush and tell him to take his poisoned kool-aid elsewhere.
From the Bush & posse playbook (otherwise known as memoirs of the People's Temple Cult):
"This is a revolutionary suicide. This is not a self-destructive suicide."
They're the government. They can do anything they want and there's not much we can do about it.
four legs good
Yes, we can. We can fire George "Jim Jones" Bush and tell him to take his poisoned kool-aid elsewhere.
From the Bush & posse playbook (otherwise known as memoirs of the People's Temple Cult):
"This is a revolutionary suicide. This is not a self-destructive suicide."
They're the government. They can do anything they want and there's not much we can do about it.
four legs good
Yes, we can. We can fire George "Jim Jones" Bush and tell him to take his poisoned kool-aid elsewhere.
From the Bush & posse playbook (otherwise known as memoirs of the People's Temple Cult):
"This is a revolutionary suicide. This is not a self-destructive suicide."
[post resurrected from a dying thread, and more relevant here]
What Kerry should do is to turn Bush's irrational, indiscriminate use of the military when dealing with terrorism against him.
Kerry should argue that, yes, Bush WOULD be the first to do Iraq all over again in still another country -- despite their being no threat, not connection to al Qaeda, and no real help from allies. Yes, we SHOULD under a second term Bush expect that that might very well happen -- Bush has always maintained that no mistakes were made, and that he'd do it again.
But what would be the CERTAIN consequence of going after still another country (will it be Syria? Iran? North Korea?)? A re-institution of the draft, because that is the ONLY way sufficient numbers of new troops can be put together.
And THAT is why a vote for Bush is a vote for the draft.
The point is, Bush is really caught between a rock and a hard place here. If he's going to talk up how eager he is to go off to fight another war with our military, he can't escape the consequence of a draft.
I'm really surprised that the Kerry campaign is not forcefully pushing this point.
[post resurrected from a dying thread, and more relevant here]
What Kerry should do is to turn Bush's irrational, indiscriminate use of the military when dealing with terrorism against him.
Kerry should argue that, yes, Bush WOULD be the first to do Iraq all over again in still another country -- despite their being no threat, not connection to al Qaeda, and no real help from allies. Yes, we SHOULD under a second term Bush expect that that might very well happen -- Bush has always maintained that no mistakes were made, and that he'd do it again.
But what would be the CERTAIN consequence of going after still another country (will it be Syria? Iran? North Korea?)? A re-institution of the draft, because that is the ONLY way sufficient numbers of new troops can be put together.
And THAT is why a vote for Bush is a vote for the draft.
The point is, Bush is really caught between a rock and a hard place here. If he's going to talk up how eager he is to go off to fight another war with our military, he can't escape the consequence of a draft.
I'm really surprised that the Kerry campaign is not forcefully pushing this point.
[post resurrected from a dying thread, and more relevant here]
What Kerry should do is to turn Bush's irrational, indiscriminate use of the military when dealing with terrorism against him.
Kerry should argue that, yes, Bush WOULD be the first to do Iraq all over again in still another country -- despite their being no threat, not connection to al Qaeda, and no real help from allies. Yes, we SHOULD under a second term Bush expect that that might very well happen -- Bush has always maintained that no mistakes were made, and that he'd do it again.
But what would be the CERTAIN consequence of going after still another country (will it be Syria? Iran? North Korea?)? A re-institution of the draft, because that is the ONLY way sufficient numbers of new troops can be put together.
And THAT is why a vote for Bush is a vote for the draft.
The point is, Bush is really caught between a rock and a hard place here. If he's going to talk up how eager he is to go off to fight another war with our military, he can't escape the consequence of a draft.
I'm really surprised that the Kerry campaign is not forcefully pushing this point.
And that's what "support the troops" means in Bush's America - either you support the troops as cannon fodder or as human beings.
Tena--
This is precisely what I can't get my head around. If I "support the troops," then I want them to be car-bomb fodder? (Because that's all they are anymore, or ever will be, so long as they are in Iraq.)
And if I don't want that, then I don't "support the troops"?
What step am I missing in this syllogism?
My fervent prayer is that this brutally cynical nonsense will be knocked on its ear November 2.
And that's what "support the troops" means in Bush's America - either you support the troops as cannon fodder or as human beings.
Tena--
This is precisely what I can't get my head around. If I "support the troops," then I want them to be car-bomb fodder? (Because that's all they are anymore, or ever will be, so long as they are in Iraq.)
And if I don't want that, then I don't "support the troops"?
What step am I missing in this syllogism?
My fervent prayer is that this brutally cynical nonsense will be knocked on its ear November 2.
And that's what "support the troops" means in Bush's America - either you support the troops as cannon fodder or as human beings.
Tena--
This is precisely what I can't get my head around. If I "support the troops," then I want them to be car-bomb fodder? (Because that's all they are anymore, or ever will be, so long as they are in Iraq.)
And if I don't want that, then I don't "support the troops"?
What step am I missing in this syllogism?
My fervent prayer is that this brutally cynical nonsense will be knocked on its ear November 2.
FWIW, that last "Anonymous" was me.
Haloscan keeps eating my name, and I'm not paying attention....
FWIW, that last "Anonymous" was me.
Haloscan keeps eating my name, and I'm not paying attention....
FWIW, that last "Anonymous" was me.
Haloscan keeps eating my name, and I'm not paying attention....
One interesting tidbit she told me was that a rumor was going around the base that Kerry wanted to dissolve the Marines and spread them out as special forces around the other branches. I told her that was bull and she said that her step-mom was a Kerry volunteer who'd already set the guys straight. Dirty tricks?
Biblio: Not Possible. Every few decades someone really does try to dissolbe the Marine Corps and fails miserably. We need the marines and their capabilities, most of all we need their courage and their spirit referred to as Gung Ho after the Boxer Revolt.
The Marines are here to stay and we should all be glad.
One interesting tidbit she told me was that a rumor was going around the base that Kerry wanted to dissolve the Marines and spread them out as special forces around the other branches. I told her that was bull and she said that her step-mom was a Kerry volunteer who'd already set the guys straight. Dirty tricks?
Biblio: Not Possible. Every few decades someone really does try to dissolbe the Marine Corps and fails miserably. We need the marines and their capabilities, most of all we need their courage and their spirit referred to as Gung Ho after the Boxer Revolt.
The Marines are here to stay and we should all be glad.
One interesting tidbit she told me was that a rumor was going around the base that Kerry wanted to dissolve the Marines and spread them out as special forces around the other branches. I told her that was bull and she said that her step-mom was a Kerry volunteer who'd already set the guys straight. Dirty tricks?
Biblio: Not Possible. Every few decades someone really does try to dissolbe the Marine Corps and fails miserably. We need the marines and their capabilities, most of all we need their courage and their spirit referred to as Gung Ho after the Boxer Revolt.
The Marines are here to stay and we should all be glad.
Thanks for all the information. This makes me profoundly sad, and beyond panic. How, how can we keep Bush from stealing this election and truly destroy what is good and great with our country.
The best and brightest of our citizens are sent to this man's folly. And people just believe his lies. It is beyond understandable.
This is like being confronted with a cult. I had a friend who ended up in a cult and in a very short conversation with her in a visit to her family, I tried to talk to her. There was a blank look in her eyes that was frightening. 50% of America is in a cult.
Thanks for all the information. This makes me profoundly sad, and beyond panic. How, how can we keep Bush from stealing this election and truly destroy what is good and great with our country.
The best and brightest of our citizens are sent to this man's folly. And people just believe his lies. It is beyond understandable.
This is like being confronted with a cult. I had a friend who ended up in a cult and in a very short conversation with her in a visit to her family, I tried to talk to her. There was a blank look in her eyes that was frightening. 50% of America is in a cult.
Thanks for all the information. This makes me profoundly sad, and beyond panic. How, how can we keep Bush from stealing this election and truly destroy what is good and great with our country.
The best and brightest of our citizens are sent to this man's folly. And people just believe his lies. It is beyond understandable.
This is like being confronted with a cult. I had a friend who ended up in a cult and in a very short conversation with her in a visit to her family, I tried to talk to her. There was a blank look in her eyes that was frightening. 50% of America is in a cult.
Brutally cynical nonsense just about covers it. Reminds me ever so much of 1966, 67, 68, 69, etc.
Brutally cynical nonsense just about covers it. Reminds me ever so much of 1966, 67, 68, 69, etc.
Brutally cynical nonsense just about covers it. Reminds me ever so much of 1966, 67, 68, 69, etc.
What step am I missing in this syllogism?
The step you've missed is indoctrination into Bushism; that is why Bush's logic is outrageous to you and you have trouble understanding how anyone other than a credulous child believes it. Those techniques which have been used by the neocon-infused GOP to gain followers seem incredibly similar to cult indoctrination techniques: an "us versus them" mentality; a thought-stopping mantra to aid GOP followers in blocking out information and analysis which contradicts neoconservative theory ['Bush will stay the course' 'flip-flopper' 'we have to take the war to the terrorists']. Sorry, it seems as if your mind has not been numbed enough to absorb Bush's foolishness without question, and thus Bush's logic will continue to be senseless to you.
What step am I missing in this syllogism?
The step you've missed is indoctrination into Bushism; that is why Bush's logic is outrageous to you and you have trouble understanding how anyone other than a credulous child believes it. Those techniques which have been used by the neocon-infused GOP to gain followers seem incredibly similar to cult indoctrination techniques: an "us versus them" mentality; a thought-stopping mantra to aid GOP followers in blocking out information and analysis which contradicts neoconservative theory ['Bush will stay the course' 'flip-flopper' 'we have to take the war to the terrorists']. Sorry, it seems as if your mind has not been numbed enough to absorb Bush's foolishness without question, and thus Bush's logic will continue to be senseless to you.
What step am I missing in this syllogism?
The step you've missed is indoctrination into Bushism; that is why Bush's logic is outrageous to you and you have trouble understanding how anyone other than a credulous child believes it. Those techniques which have been used by the neocon-infused GOP to gain followers seem incredibly similar to cult indoctrination techniques: an "us versus them" mentality; a thought-stopping mantra to aid GOP followers in blocking out information and analysis which contradicts neoconservative theory ['Bush will stay the course' 'flip-flopper' 'we have to take the war to the terrorists']. Sorry, it seems as if your mind has not been numbed enough to absorb Bush's foolishness without question, and thus Bush's logic will continue to be senseless to you.
I'm really surprised that the Kerry campaign is not forcefully pushing this point.
I'm not too surprised because of the situation Kerry is inheriting. While I think he is sincere about not reinststing the draft, he may very well have to keep up those frickin stop loss orders for a while.
BTW- I'm only three years out from my Reserve obligation and my husband is only one year out from his. We have completely fulfilled our obligations, but I doubt very much that would prevent our call up in a "national emergency." For the sake of our four kids, can we PLEASE get these REMF bastards out of there?
Thank you.
That is all.
I'm really surprised that the Kerry campaign is not forcefully pushing this point.
I'm not too surprised because of the situation Kerry is inheriting. While I think he is sincere about not reinststing the draft, he may very well have to keep up those frickin stop loss orders for a while.
BTW- I'm only three years out from my Reserve obligation and my husband is only one year out from his. We have completely fulfilled our obligations, but I doubt very much that would prevent our call up in a "national emergency." For the sake of our four kids, can we PLEASE get these REMF bastards out of there?
Thank you.
That is all.
I'm really surprised that the Kerry campaign is not forcefully pushing this point.
I'm not too surprised because of the situation Kerry is inheriting. While I think he is sincere about not reinststing the draft, he may very well have to keep up those frickin stop loss orders for a while.
BTW- I'm only three years out from my Reserve obligation and my husband is only one year out from his. We have completely fulfilled our obligations, but I doubt very much that would prevent our call up in a "national emergency." For the sake of our four kids, can we PLEASE get these REMF bastards out of there?
Thank you.
That is all.
Brutally cynical nonsense just about covers it. Reminds me ever so much of 1966, 67, 68, 69, etc.
Yeah. Frankly, the only thing that ended Vietnam was the war machine eating deeply into the ranks of the middle class. So long as it was the working class, it wasn't so bad. But as the war dragged on, and more and more middle class families felt the bite, support started to fade.
Interestingly, England was disgusted by war after WWI. The 'flower of English youth' went to that one. Hardly a village or a family was not touched by the devastation that followed. An entire generation, nearly, wiped out. All of England felt it. It took Hitler to make them want to fight again, and even that took a lot (and one must point out that, since WWII, the U.S. has have not faced another Hitler, another invader of sovereign nations.)
America has learned to keep the pain confined to the lower classes (in a "classless" society), which allowed us to engage in the "police actions" of Korea and Vietnam and Gulf War I, and now.... If we don't feel it, it isn't real; and if it isn't real, then our intentions "support our troops," even as our actions feed them to the slaughterhouse.
But our hands remain clean.....
Brutally cynical nonsense just about covers it. Reminds me ever so much of 1966, 67, 68, 69, etc.
Yeah. Frankly, the only thing that ended Vietnam was the war machine eating deeply into the ranks of the middle class. So long as it was the working class, it wasn't so bad. But as the war dragged on, and more and more middle class families felt the bite, support started to fade.
Interestingly, England was disgusted by war after WWI. The 'flower of English youth' went to that one. Hardly a village or a family was not touched by the devastation that followed. An entire generation, nearly, wiped out. All of England felt it. It took Hitler to make them want to fight again, and even that took a lot (and one must point out that, since WWII, the U.S. has have not faced another Hitler, another invader of sovereign nations.)
America has learned to keep the pain confined to the lower classes (in a "classless" society), which allowed us to engage in the "police actions" of Korea and Vietnam and Gulf War I, and now.... If we don't feel it, it isn't real; and if it isn't real, then our intentions "support our troops," even as our actions feed them to the slaughterhouse.
But our hands remain clean.....
Brutally cynical nonsense just about covers it. Reminds me ever so much of 1966, 67, 68, 69, etc.
Yeah. Frankly, the only thing that ended Vietnam was the war machine eating deeply into the ranks of the middle class. So long as it was the working class, it wasn't so bad. But as the war dragged on, and more and more middle class families felt the bite, support started to fade.
Interestingly, England was disgusted by war after WWI. The 'flower of English youth' went to that one. Hardly a village or a family was not touched by the devastation that followed. An entire generation, nearly, wiped out. All of England felt it. It took Hitler to make them want to fight again, and even that took a lot (and one must point out that, since WWII, the U.S. has have not faced another Hitler, another invader of sovereign nations.)
America has learned to keep the pain confined to the lower classes (in a "classless" society), which allowed us to engage in the "police actions" of Korea and Vietnam and Gulf War I, and now.... If we don't feel it, it isn't real; and if it isn't real, then our intentions "support our troops," even as our actions feed them to the slaughterhouse.
But our hands remain clean.....
Sheds a whole new light on that "Dred Scott" comment in the debates . . .
Sheds a whole new light on that "Dred Scott" comment in the debates . . .
Sheds a whole new light on that "Dred Scott" comment in the debates . . .
The step you've missed is indoctrination into Bushism; that is why Bush's logic is outrageous to you and you have trouble understanding how anyone other than a credulous child believes it.
The answer, BTW, to Atrios' question earlier about what do we do Nov. 3, when we win?
The GOP has been working on this for decades. They've never stopped to ask "what do we do with the car when we catch it?" Unfortunately, they just keep acting like they have to chase it, or bark at it, which is how we got into this mess.
Winning on 11/3 is the beginning, not the end. Reversing "Bush logic" won't occur because a Dem sits in the Oval Office, or even (dare we hope?) if Dems win control of Congress, or just the Senate.
There is a lot to be done. This is a marker on the highway, not the last 2 minutes of the football game.
The step you've missed is indoctrination into Bushism; that is why Bush's logic is outrageous to you and you have trouble understanding how anyone other than a credulous child believes it.
The answer, BTW, to Atrios' question earlier about what do we do Nov. 3, when we win?
The GOP has been working on this for decades. They've never stopped to ask "what do we do with the car when we catch it?" Unfortunately, they just keep acting like they have to chase it, or bark at it, which is how we got into this mess.
Winning on 11/3 is the beginning, not the end. Reversing "Bush logic" won't occur because a Dem sits in the Oval Office, or even (dare we hope?) if Dems win control of Congress, or just the Senate.
There is a lot to be done. This is a marker on the highway, not the last 2 minutes of the football game.
The step you've missed is indoctrination into Bushism; that is why Bush's logic is outrageous to you and you have trouble understanding how anyone other than a credulous child believes it.
The answer, BTW, to Atrios' question earlier about what do we do Nov. 3, when we win?
The GOP has been working on this for decades. They've never stopped to ask "what do we do with the car when we catch it?" Unfortunately, they just keep acting like they have to chase it, or bark at it, which is how we got into this mess.
Winning on 11/3 is the beginning, not the end. Reversing "Bush logic" won't occur because a Dem sits in the Oval Office, or even (dare we hope?) if Dems win control of Congress, or just the Senate.
There is a lot to be done. This is a marker on the highway, not the last 2 minutes of the football game.
Guys who see their tours of duty lengthened to 5 years won't take long to view it as "you're in until you get killed."
The GOP is loving the synergistic effect of a crappy economy sending people to the military.
[When I saw fahrenheit 9/11 I the scenes that made the biggest impression on me were the ones with military recruiters at the low-income mall.]
Guys who see their tours of duty lengthened to 5 years won't take long to view it as "you're in until you get killed."
The GOP is loving the synergistic effect of a crappy economy sending people to the military.
[When I saw fahrenheit 9/11 I the scenes that made the biggest impression on me were the ones with military recruiters at the low-income mall.]
Guys who see their tours of duty lengthened to 5 years won't take long to view it as "you're in until you get killed."
The GOP is loving the synergistic effect of a crappy economy sending people to the military.
[When I saw fahrenheit 9/11 I the scenes that made the biggest impression on me were the ones with military recruiters at the low-income mall.]
Regarding lawsuits and the stop-loss orders:
I hope they are pursuing both angles ... both the issue of violation of contract by the government (as commander in chief, the chimperor has the responsibility here and should be held personally accountable) and the 13th ammendment angle.
Indeed, I hope someone takes up the criminal aspects of this case. Are the military contracts fraudulant? Is the CiC guilty of ordering kidnapping?
Does anyone have the balls to start a criminal investigation?
Anyone? Spitzer? Anyone?
Regarding lawsuits and the stop-loss orders:
I hope they are pursuing both angles ... both the issue of violation of contract by the government (as commander in chief, the chimperor has the responsibility here and should be held personally accountable) and the 13th ammendment angle.
Indeed, I hope someone takes up the criminal aspects of this case. Are the military contracts fraudulant? Is the CiC guilty of ordering kidnapping?
Does anyone have the balls to start a criminal investigation?
Anyone? Spitzer? Anyone?
Regarding lawsuits and the stop-loss orders:
I hope they are pursuing both angles ... both the issue of violation of contract by the government (as commander in chief, the chimperor has the responsibility here and should be held personally accountable) and the 13th ammendment angle.
Indeed, I hope someone takes up the criminal aspects of this case. Are the military contracts fraudulant? Is the CiC guilty of ordering kidnapping?
Does anyone have the balls to start a criminal investigation?
Anyone? Spitzer? Anyone?
The GOP has been working on this for decades. They've never stopped to ask "what do we do with the car when we catch it?" Unfortunately, they just keep acting like they have to chase it, or bark at it, which is how we got into this mess.
Winning on 11/3 is the beginning, not the end. Reversing "Bush logic" won't occur because a Dem sits in the Oval Office, or even (dare we hope?) if Dems win control of Congress, or just the Senate.
I completely agree; I think a real effort to expose the gross malfeasance of the neocon-infused GOP and its ridiculous "pinky and the brain" world domination theories will be important. As important will be juxtaposing this with the sound leadership of Kerry, and not allowing the GOP to mobilize and slander and harass Kerry with the "Hillary murdered Vince Foster; Bill is a sexual deviant" crap the GOP pulled during the last normal administration. It's important that we do not allow Rove to regroup and repackage Bushism in another guise.
The GOP has been working on this for decades. They've never stopped to ask "what do we do with the car when we catch it?" Unfortunately, they just keep acting like they have to chase it, or bark at it, which is how we got into this mess.
Winning on 11/3 is the beginning, not the end. Reversing "Bush logic" won't occur because a Dem sits in the Oval Office, or even (dare we hope?) if Dems win control of Congress, or just the Senate.
I completely agree; I think a real effort to expose the gross malfeasance of the neocon-infused GOP and its ridiculous "pinky and the brain" world domination theories will be important. As important will be juxtaposing this with the sound leadership of Kerry, and not allowing the GOP to mobilize and slander and harass Kerry with the "Hillary murdered Vince Foster; Bill is a sexual deviant" crap the GOP pulled during the last normal administration. It's important that we do not allow Rove to regroup and repackage Bushism in another guise.
The GOP has been working on this for decades. They've never stopped to ask "what do we do with the car when we catch it?" Unfortunately, they just keep acting like they have to chase it, or bark at it, which is how we got into this mess.
Winning on 11/3 is the beginning, not the end. Reversing "Bush logic" won't occur because a Dem sits in the Oval Office, or even (dare we hope?) if Dems win control of Congress, or just the Senate.
I completely agree; I think a real effort to expose the gross malfeasance of the neocon-infused GOP and its ridiculous "pinky and the brain" world domination theories will be important. As important will be juxtaposing this with the sound leadership of Kerry, and not allowing the GOP to mobilize and slander and harass Kerry with the "Hillary murdered Vince Foster; Bill is a sexual deviant" crap the GOP pulled during the last normal administration. It's important that we do not allow Rove to regroup and repackage Bushism in another guise.
"Yeah. Frankly, the only thing that ended Vietnam was the war machine eating deeply into the ranks of the middle class. So long as it was the working class, it wasn't so bad. But as the war dragged on, and more and more middle class families felt the bite, support started to fade."
Actually it ended because the Vietnamese comprehensively won. Very few people seem to understand the determination and effectiveness of the North Vietnamese fighters.
In addition to creating 200,000 (50,000 KIA)American casualties they created about 800,000 South Vietnamese military casualties. Most history tends to gloss over their real military accomplishemt. Instead of analysing the actual fighting the hippies get blamed. The North Vietnamese actually won the war.
"Yeah. Frankly, the only thing that ended Vietnam was the war machine eating deeply into the ranks of the middle class. So long as it was the working class, it wasn't so bad. But as the war dragged on, and more and more middle class families felt the bite, support started to fade."
Actually it ended because the Vietnamese comprehensively won. Very few people seem to understand the determination and effectiveness of the North Vietnamese fighters.
In addition to creating 200,000 (50,000 KIA)American casualties they created about 800,000 South Vietnamese military casualties. Most history tends to gloss over their real military accomplishemt. Instead of analysing the actual fighting the hippies get blamed. The North Vietnamese actually won the war.
"Yeah. Frankly, the only thing that ended Vietnam was the war machine eating deeply into the ranks of the middle class. So long as it was the working class, it wasn't so bad. But as the war dragged on, and more and more middle class families felt the bite, support started to fade."
Actually it ended because the Vietnamese comprehensively won. Very few people seem to understand the determination and effectiveness of the North Vietnamese fighters.
In addition to creating 200,000 (50,000 KIA)American casualties they created about 800,000 South Vietnamese military casualties. Most history tends to gloss over their real military accomplishemt. Instead of analysing the actual fighting the hippies get blamed. The North Vietnamese actually won the war.
At the pace things are going, all the reservists will be dead, amputee, blind or brain-damaged when the 5 years will be over. If they try this, they're friggin bastards. OK, they already are, so they'll be uber-friggin bastards.
At the pace things are going, all the reservists will be dead, amputee, blind or brain-damaged when the 5 years will be over. If they try this, they're friggin bastards. OK, they already are, so they'll be uber-friggin bastards.
At the pace things are going, all the reservists will be dead, amputee, blind or brain-damaged when the 5 years will be over. If they try this, they're friggin bastards. OK, they already are, so they'll be uber-friggin bastards.
After enduring that, they're betting the shoeple will embrace a 2 yr draft.
After enduring that, they're betting the shoeple will embrace a 2 yr draft.
After enduring that, they're betting the shoeple will embrace a 2 yr draft.
Only in America can a person who was awol and left the guard early institute stop loss orders to have enough troops to fight his ill begotten Wars....only in America.
Only in America can a person who was awol and left the guard early institute stop loss orders to have enough troops to fight his ill begotten Wars....only in America.
Only in America can a person who was awol and left the guard early institute stop loss orders to have enough troops to fight his ill begotten Wars....only in America.
Matthew Lewis Carroll Smith-
Now I have to relearn "Waist deep"!
Thanks and your version is going into my set list.
Yes BOHICA is "Bend over etc."
B/C 04
"We put the FU in FUBAR"
Matthew Lewis Carroll Smith-
Now I have to relearn "Waist deep"!
Thanks and your version is going into my set list.
Yes BOHICA is "Bend over etc."
B/C 04
"We put the FU in FUBAR"
Matthew Lewis Carroll Smith-
Now I have to relearn "Waist deep"!
Thanks and your version is going into my set list.
Yes BOHICA is "Bend over etc."
B/C 04
"We put the FU in FUBAR"
and this would be different from slavery exactly how?
and this would be different from slavery exactly how?
and this would be different from slavery exactly how?
How to explain polls showing the military with a strong support of Bush? I don't get it. Are they simply brainwashed?
How to explain polls showing the military with a strong support of Bush? I don't get it. Are they simply brainwashed?
How to explain polls showing the military with a strong support of Bush? I don't get it. Are they simply brainwashed?
How to explain polls showing the military with a strong support of Bush? I don't get it. Are they simply brainwashed?
How to explain polls showing the military with a strong support of Bush? I don't get it. Are they simply brainwashed?
How to explain polls showing the military with a strong support of Bush? I don't get it. Are they simply brainwashed?
Don't miss Mark Klieman's take on the draft:
No doubt he'll be just as surprised when the time comes, and just as willing to blame the result on someone else, when he has to ask the Congress to reinstitute the draft.No, President Bush doesn't propose a draft, any more than the proposed a shortage of flu vaccine. He's not in favor of a draft, any more than he was in favor of losing jobs instead of gaining them.But choices have consequences. I'm sorry if Mr. Bush is offended by my pointing out the likely consequences of his unwise choices, but that's my job in this election.Worth repeating.Cranky
Don't miss Mark Klieman's take on the draft:
No doubt he'll be just as surprised when the time comes, and just as willing to blame the result on someone else, when he has to ask the Congress to reinstitute the draft.No, President Bush doesn't propose a draft, any more than the proposed a shortage of flu vaccine. He's not in favor of a draft, any more than he was in favor of losing jobs instead of gaining them.But choices have consequences. I'm sorry if Mr. Bush is offended by my pointing out the likely consequences of his unwise choices, but that's my job in this election.Worth repeating.Cranky
Don't miss Mark Klieman's take on the draft:
No doubt he'll be just as surprised when the time comes, and just as willing to blame the result on someone else, when he has to ask the Congress to reinstitute the draft.No, President Bush doesn't propose a draft, any more than the proposed a shortage of flu vaccine. He's not in favor of a draft, any more than he was in favor of losing jobs instead of gaining them.But choices have consequences. I'm sorry if Mr. Bush is offended by my pointing out the likely consequences of his unwise choices, but that's my job in this election.Worth repeating.Cranky
So Bush wasn't just confused -- no draft AND no volunteers!
So Bush wasn't just confused -- no draft AND no volunteers!
So Bush wasn't just confused -- no draft AND no volunteers!
The real voting base of the Repubs, of Bush, are the belts of affluent suburbs. That should tell you everything you need to know. And if they show the right movies in the multiplexs they won't even need a draft. I'm already seeing mentions of "advanced prosthetics" which are "better than the real thing". Just throw in a movie or TV series "The Army Made a Mensch Out of My Lazy Kid" and they'll come running.
The real voting base of the Repubs, of Bush, are the belts of affluent suburbs. That should tell you everything you need to know. And if they show the right movies in the multiplexs they won't even need a draft. I'm already seeing mentions of "advanced prosthetics" which are "better than the real thing". Just throw in a movie or TV series "The Army Made a Mensch Out of My Lazy Kid" and they'll come running.
The real voting base of the Repubs, of Bush, are the belts of affluent suburbs. That should tell you everything you need to know. And if they show the right movies in the multiplexs they won't even need a draft. I'm already seeing mentions of "advanced prosthetics" which are "better than the real thing". Just throw in a movie or TV series "The Army Made a Mensch Out of My Lazy Kid" and they'll come running.
If poll numbers are to be believed showing the strong military support for BC04, well they will only have themselves to blame when the next assigment is not Baghdad but Tehran.
Call it brainwashing or whatever, but c'mon! These soldiers have to be smarter than this, or else the "all volunteer army" is seriously overrated.
If poll numbers are to be believed showing the strong military support for BC04, well they will only have themselves to blame when the next assigment is not Baghdad but Tehran.
Call it brainwashing or whatever, but c'mon! These soldiers have to be smarter than this, or else the "all volunteer army" is seriously overrated.
If poll numbers are to be believed showing the strong military support for BC04, well they will only have themselves to blame when the next assigment is not Baghdad but Tehran.
Call it brainwashing or whatever, but c'mon! These soldiers have to be smarter than this, or else the "all volunteer army" is seriously overrated.
Here's suggested wording to use in a letter to the editor to your local paper:
I'm very concerned that President Bush and his policies have pushed this nation closer to needing a draft.
Iraq has bogged down so much of our army that if we actually had to fight a war of necessity instead of a war of fantasy, we'd be in trouble. Our armed forces are streched to the breaking point. Bush's war of choice has left us
completely without choices when it comes to any further military action that may be necessary. His reckless rush to project American power has instead resulted in the negation of American power.
Yes, Bush says there won't be a draft. What has he been right about so far? If Bush STILL can't admit that Iraq was not a real threat, and fighting the war was any kind of mistake, then why should voters believe that he would not
make the same mistake again? And if he DOES go after still another such
country, by again trumping up some threat that isn't there, how can the draft be avoided?
History is full of surprises. In a time of war, another one can break out as well. What army do we have to fight it with?
Here's suggested wording to use in a letter to the editor to your local paper:
I'm very concerned that President Bush and his policies have pushed this nation closer to needing a draft.
Iraq has bogged down so much of our army that if we actually had to fight a war of necessity instead of a war of fantasy, we'd be in trouble. Our armed forces are streched to the breaking point. Bush's war of choice has left us
completely without choices when it comes to any further military action that may be necessary. His reckless rush to project American power has instead resulted in the negation of American power.
Yes, Bush says there won't be a draft. What has he been right about so far? If Bush STILL can't admit that Iraq was not a real threat, and fighting the war was any kind of mistake, then why should voters believe that he would not
make the same mistake again? And if he DOES go after still another such
country, by again trumping up some threat that isn't there, how can the draft be avoided?
History is full of surprises. In a time of war, another one can break out as well. What army do we have to fight it with?
Here's suggested wording to use in a letter to the editor to your local paper:
I'm very concerned that President Bush and his policies have pushed this nation closer to needing a draft.
Iraq has bogged down so much of our army that if we actually had to fight a war of necessity instead of a war of fantasy, we'd be in trouble. Our armed forces are streched to the breaking point. Bush's war of choice has left us
completely without choices when it comes to any further military action that may be necessary. His reckless rush to project American power has instead resulted in the negation of American power.
Yes, Bush says there won't be a draft. What has he been right about so far? If Bush STILL can't admit that Iraq was not a real threat, and fighting the war was any kind of mistake, then why should voters believe that he would not
make the same mistake again? And if he DOES go after still another such
country, by again trumping up some threat that isn't there, how can the draft be avoided?
History is full of surprises. In a time of war, another one can break out as well. What army do we have to fight it with?
I'm already seeing mentions of "advanced prosthetics" which are "better than the real thing". Just throw in a movie or TV series "The Army Made a Mensch Out of My Lazy Kid" and they'll come running.
RECRUITER: Mobile Infantry! Good for you, son! Mobile Infantry made me what I am today!
We already have these TV series here in the UK. There's "Lads' Army", a reality show which recreates 1960s National Service (draft) in a sort of "isn't it great, character building stuff" way; its successor "Bad Lads' Army" which uses young offenders; and another one called "SAS: Are You Tough Enough?" which supposedly recreates SAS selection.
The aftermath to "Bad Lads' Army" has been much publicised: apparently two of the contestants enjoyed the experience so much that they joined the regulars.
They don't finish each episode with a voice saying "Do You Want To Know More?" but they might as well.
I'm already seeing mentions of "advanced prosthetics" which are "better than the real thing". Just throw in a movie or TV series "The Army Made a Mensch Out of My Lazy Kid" and they'll come running.
RECRUITER: Mobile Infantry! Good for you, son! Mobile Infantry made me what I am today!
We already have these TV series here in the UK. There's "Lads' Army", a reality show which recreates 1960s National Service (draft) in a sort of "isn't it great, character building stuff" way; its successor "Bad Lads' Army" which uses young offenders; and another one called "SAS: Are You Tough Enough?" which supposedly recreates SAS selection.
The aftermath to "Bad Lads' Army" has been much publicised: apparently two of the contestants enjoyed the experience so much that they joined the regulars.
They don't finish each episode with a voice saying "Do You Want To Know More?" but they might as well.
I'm already seeing mentions of "advanced prosthetics" which are "better than the real thing". Just throw in a movie or TV series "The Army Made a Mensch Out of My Lazy Kid" and they'll come running.
RECRUITER: Mobile Infantry! Good for you, son! Mobile Infantry made me what I am today!
We already have these TV series here in the UK. There's "Lads' Army", a reality show which recreates 1960s National Service (draft) in a sort of "isn't it great, character building stuff" way; its successor "Bad Lads' Army" which uses young offenders; and another one called "SAS: Are You Tough Enough?" which supposedly recreates SAS selection.
The aftermath to "Bad Lads' Army" has been much publicised: apparently two of the contestants enjoyed the experience so much that they joined the regulars.
They don't finish each episode with a voice saying "Do You Want To Know More?" but they might as well.
Just great.
My dad is in the Army Reserves, and he's going to Iraq next month. He's 54.
Just great.
My dad is in the Army Reserves, and he's going to Iraq next month. He's 54.
Just great.
My dad is in the Army Reserves, and he's going to Iraq next month. He's 54.
What I want to know, exactly who in the current administration is the Baldric of this cunning plan?
What I want to know, exactly who in the current administration is the Baldric of this cunning plan?
What I want to know, exactly who in the current administration is the Baldric of this cunning plan?
Hey, sentences to the old Soviet gulag tended to be 10 to 25 years, so reservists are getting off easy!
Hey, sentences to the old Soviet gulag tended to be 10 to 25 years, so reservists are getting off easy!
Hey, sentences to the old Soviet gulag tended to be 10 to 25 years, so reservists are getting off easy!
Enterik, Baldric's role is likely being played by Deputy Secretary of Defense Wolfowitz. He's the real theorist at that level, the guy with all of the "plans." He's obviously been watching "Black Adder Goes Forth" too.
Enterik, Baldric's role is likely being played by Deputy Secretary of Defense Wolfowitz. He's the real theorist at that level, the guy with all of the "plans." He's obviously been watching "Black Adder Goes Forth" too.
Enterik, Baldric's role is likely being played by Deputy Secretary of Defense Wolfowitz. He's the real theorist at that level, the guy with all of the "plans." He's obviously been watching "Black Adder Goes Forth" too.
I almost joined the service because they would have paid me better than any other internship. Grew up in a military family, so I figured it would be familiar at least. Went through much rigamarole, paperwork--it was actually a rather lengthy process.
As I was ready to sign one of the last forms, I read a provision indicating an 8-year term instead of a 4-year term. The recruiting officer said, "oh, sure, yeah, the President can call you back in once you get out, and keep you in if it's time for you to get out, but that never happens."
I got up and left. Civilian internships weren't paying well, but they didn't think they were gonna own me for twice as long as agreed.
I almost joined the service because they would have paid me better than any other internship. Grew up in a military family, so I figured it would be familiar at least. Went through much rigamarole, paperwork--it was actually a rather lengthy process.
As I was ready to sign one of the last forms, I read a provision indicating an 8-year term instead of a 4-year term. The recruiting officer said, "oh, sure, yeah, the President can call you back in once you get out, and keep you in if it's time for you to get out, but that never happens."
I got up and left. Civilian internships weren't paying well, but they didn't think they were gonna own me for twice as long as agreed.
I almost joined the service because they would have paid me better than any other internship. Grew up in a military family, so I figured it would be familiar at least. Went through much rigamarole, paperwork--it was actually a rather lengthy process.
As I was ready to sign one of the last forms, I read a provision indicating an 8-year term instead of a 4-year term. The recruiting officer said, "oh, sure, yeah, the President can call you back in once you get out, and keep you in if it's time for you to get out, but that never happens."
I got up and left. Civilian internships weren't paying well, but they didn't think they were gonna own me for twice as long as agreed.
The oligarchs have assumed (rightly, since Korea, VN, and GWI) that they''ll be able to keep their kids out of harm's way.
I heard this am on NPR that Bill Gates is backing Bush. Figger he or any of his family will ever find the inside of a body-bag in Bagdhad?
NO MUTHERFOCKING WAY, Jose...
The oligarchs have assumed (rightly, since Korea, VN, and GWI) that they''ll be able to keep their kids out of harm's way.
I heard this am on NPR that Bill Gates is backing Bush. Figger he or any of his family will ever find the inside of a body-bag in Bagdhad?
NO MUTHERFOCKING WAY, Jose...
The oligarchs have assumed (rightly, since Korea, VN, and GWI) that they''ll be able to keep their kids out of harm's way.
I heard this am on NPR that Bill Gates is backing Bush. Figger he or any of his family will ever find the inside of a body-bag in Bagdhad?
NO MUTHERFOCKING WAY, Jose...
bush is baldric. he could never rise to the level of black adder.
bush is baldric. he could never rise to the level of black adder.
bush is baldric. he could never rise to the level of black adder.
My dad is in the Army Reserves, and he's going to Iraq next month. He's 54.
Mike1A
Christopher Buckley, why aren't you joining up? You whined and cried about how you missed out on Vietnam. Had all of the slots been taken by minority volunteers? Well, here's your big chance you're about two years younger than this man's father. And you're five or six years younger than that grandmother who got shipped out last year.
What's the matter? Oh, that paternity problem. That's no bar these days, they're sending out fathers AND mothers at the same time, practically as soon as they leave the lying in bed.
So here's you big chance Christopher Taylor Buckley, son of William F. Here is you chance to cleanse yourself in combat.
Expect to see you in uniform in Iraq soon.
If they're sending grandparents to Iraq for king and corporation they should be sending those members of my generation who never fulfilled their obligations. Draft everyone, not just the reserves.
By the way. I know a young man who is being let go by the Airforce before his enlistment is up. Seems they've got too many people with his skills. On the other hand there is a Nurse from Maine who was involuntarily transfered to another guard unit and who is in Iraq pounding nails instead of nursing people. Military efficiency.
My dad is in the Army Reserves, and he's going to Iraq next month. He's 54.
Mike1A
Christopher Buckley, why aren't you joining up? You whined and cried about how you missed out on Vietnam. Had all of the slots been taken by minority volunteers? Well, here's your big chance you're about two years younger than this man's father. And you're five or six years younger than that grandmother who got shipped out last year.
What's the matter? Oh, that paternity problem. That's no bar these days, they're sending out fathers AND mothers at the same time, practically as soon as they leave the lying in bed.
So here's you big chance Christopher Taylor Buckley, son of William F. Here is you chance to cleanse yourself in combat.
Expect to see you in uniform in Iraq soon.
If they're sending grandparents to Iraq for king and corporation they should be sending those members of my generation who never fulfilled their obligations. Draft everyone, not just the reserves.
By the way. I know a young man who is being let go by the Airforce before his enlistment is up. Seems they've got too many people with his skills. On the other hand there is a Nurse from Maine who was involuntarily transfered to another guard unit and who is in Iraq pounding nails instead of nursing people. Military efficiency.
My dad is in the Army Reserves, and he's going to Iraq next month. He's 54.
Mike1A
Christopher Buckley, why aren't you joining up? You whined and cried about how you missed out on Vietnam. Had all of the slots been taken by minority volunteers? Well, here's your big chance you're about two years younger than this man's father. And you're five or six years younger than that grandmother who got shipped out last year.
What's the matter? Oh, that paternity problem. That's no bar these days, they're sending out fathers AND mothers at the same time, practically as soon as they leave the lying in bed.
So here's you big chance Christopher Taylor Buckley, son of William F. Here is you chance to cleanse yourself in combat.
Expect to see you in uniform in Iraq soon.
If they're sending grandparents to Iraq for king and corporation they should be sending those members of my generation who never fulfilled their obligations. Draft everyone, not just the reserves.
By the way. I know a young man who is being let go by the Airforce before his enlistment is up. Seems they've got too many people with his skills. On the other hand there is a Nurse from Maine who was involuntarily transfered to another guard unit and who is in Iraq pounding nails instead of nursing people. Military efficiency.
Dave said..."How to explain polls showing the military with a strong support of Bush? I don't get it. Are they simply brainwashed?"
There ain't nothin' simple about it. Its a time-tested process of brainwiping and rebooting the blanks with a new operating system. Only someone who has gone thru it can truly appreciate just how effective it is.
Of course they're gonna vote for the Fuhrer: he's their 'commander'. Ya don't cross the picket line in THAT union.
Dave said..."How to explain polls showing the military with a strong support of Bush? I don't get it. Are they simply brainwashed?"
There ain't nothin' simple about it. Its a time-tested process of brainwiping and rebooting the blanks with a new operating system. Only someone who has gone thru it can truly appreciate just how effective it is.
Of course they're gonna vote for the Fuhrer: he's their 'commander'. Ya don't cross the picket line in THAT union.
Dave said..."How to explain polls showing the military with a strong support of Bush? I don't get it. Are they simply brainwashed?"
There ain't nothin' simple about it. Its a time-tested process of brainwiping and rebooting the blanks with a new operating system. Only someone who has gone thru it can truly appreciate just how effective it is.
Of course they're gonna vote for the Fuhrer: he's their 'commander'. Ya don't cross the picket line in THAT union.
Dave said..."How to explain polls showing the military with a strong support of Bush? I don't get it. Are they simply brainwashed?"
You are in the military. You are in the middle of a disasterous war which you 1, dearly hope to get out of before you die,2, dearly hope to avoid. You suspect that if they hear you've been disloyal to the CIC you just might find that #1 and 2 become horribly truer for you.
Someone asks you who you are voting for. Someone on the phone. What do you say?
Bush is there now, he might be there next year. Kerry is not there now, he might not be there next year. You've got to go with today's reality. Do you say, I'm supporting Bush or Kerry?
Forget the polling and concentrate on getting the vote out.
Dave said..."How to explain polls showing the military with a strong support of Bush? I don't get it. Are they simply brainwashed?"
You are in the military. You are in the middle of a disasterous war which you 1, dearly hope to get out of before you die,2, dearly hope to avoid. You suspect that if they hear you've been disloyal to the CIC you just might find that #1 and 2 become horribly truer for you.
Someone asks you who you are voting for. Someone on the phone. What do you say?
Bush is there now, he might be there next year. Kerry is not there now, he might not be there next year. You've got to go with today's reality. Do you say, I'm supporting Bush or Kerry?
Forget the polling and concentrate on getting the vote out.
Dave said..."How to explain polls showing the military with a strong support of Bush? I don't get it. Are they simply brainwashed?"
You are in the military. You are in the middle of a disasterous war which you 1, dearly hope to get out of before you die,2, dearly hope to avoid. You suspect that if they hear you've been disloyal to the CIC you just might find that #1 and 2 become horribly truer for you.
Someone asks you who you are voting for. Someone on the phone. What do you say?
Bush is there now, he might be there next year. Kerry is not there now, he might not be there next year. You've got to go with today's reality. Do you say, I'm supporting Bush or Kerry?
Forget the polling and concentrate on getting the vote out.
whew! sorry about that "backdoor draft" - i blame the breakfast burrito.
whew! sorry about that "backdoor draft" - i blame the breakfast burrito.
whew! sorry about that "backdoor draft" - i blame the breakfast burrito.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/1...html?
oref=login
In today's NYT, Greg Kelly does a nice job in an OP/ED piece answering some of your questions about "being brainwashed". As a veteran of both Iraq and Afghanistan, I can vouch for his words.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/1...html?
oref=login
In today's NYT, Greg Kelly does a nice job in an OP/ED piece answering some of your questions about "being brainwashed". As a veteran of both Iraq and Afghanistan, I can vouch for his words.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/1...html?
oref=login
In today's NYT, Greg Kelly does a nice job in an OP/ED piece answering some of your questions about "being brainwashed". As a veteran of both Iraq and Afghanistan, I can vouch for his words.
I think Bush thinks he is telling the truth when he says there won't be a draft. There will be one, of course. There already is. But they will call it something different.
I think Bush thinks he is telling the truth when he says there won't be a draft. There will be one, of course. There already is. But they will call it something different.
I think Bush thinks he is telling the truth when he says there won't be a draft. There will be one, of course. There already is. But they will call it something different.
Another broken Bush promise. I'm surprised nobody's mentioned this point, people seem to have this perception of Bush as a straight-shootin' man of his word but he's been caught making several huge promises he hasn't kept:
*tax cuts would help average Americans
*tax cuts would create net jobs
*tax cuts wouldn't wipe out the surplus and lead to big deficits
*Iraqi WMD would be found
*Serious Iraqi ties to AQ would be found
*Removing Hussein would make the Middle East safer and freer, and improve the lives of ordinary Iraqis
Instead, we've gotten the "Bush is out of touch with reality" meme, which the GOP has now spun into "Bush is in touch...with the Man Upstairs."
I think George Bush Lousy Promise-Keeper would have been much more a shot through the heart, and much more harmful.
Another broken Bush promise. I'm surprised nobody's mentioned this point, people seem to have this perception of Bush as a straight-shootin' man of his word but he's been caught making several huge promises he hasn't kept:
*tax cuts would help average Americans
*tax cuts would create net jobs
*tax cuts wouldn't wipe out the surplus and lead to big deficits
*Iraqi WMD would be found
*Serious Iraqi ties to AQ would be found
*Removing Hussein would make the Middle East safer and freer, and improve the lives of ordinary Iraqis
Instead, we've gotten the "Bush is out of touch with reality" meme, which the GOP has now spun into "Bush is in touch...with the Man Upstairs."
I think George Bush Lousy Promise-Keeper would have been much more a shot through the heart, and much more harmful.
Another broken Bush promise. I'm surprised nobody's mentioned this point, people seem to have this perception of Bush as a straight-shootin' man of his word but he's been caught making several huge promises he hasn't kept:
*tax cuts would help average Americans
*tax cuts would create net jobs
*tax cuts wouldn't wipe out the surplus and lead to big deficits
*Iraqi WMD would be found
*Serious Iraqi ties to AQ would be found
*Removing Hussein would make the Middle East safer and freer, and improve the lives of ordinary Iraqis
Instead, we've gotten the "Bush is out of touch with reality" meme, which the GOP has now spun into "Bush is in touch...with the Man Upstairs."
I think George Bush Lousy Promise-Keeper would have been much more a shot through the heart, and much more harmful.
First the military does not support bush. Go to Michael Moore's site and read the letters from soldiers. It's another of their fantasies. The polls are starting to show bush in the lead again because the whores saw Kerry was gaining momentum, so they put out more bullshit polls. I see something completely different on the ground, Kerry volunteers coming out of the woodwork. You know the whores don't tell you the truth, why believe these polls? Take them with the grain of salt they were made up with.
First the military does not support bush. Go to Michael Moore's site and read the letters from soldiers. It's another of their fantasies. The polls are starting to show bush in the lead again because the whores saw Kerry was gaining momentum, so they put out more bullshit polls. I see something completely different on the ground, Kerry volunteers coming out of the woodwork. You know the whores don't tell you the truth, why believe these polls? Take them with the grain of salt they were made up with.
First the military does not support bush. Go to Michael Moore's site and read the letters from soldiers. It's another of their fantasies. The polls are starting to show bush in the lead again because the whores saw Kerry was gaining momentum, so they put out more bullshit polls. I see something completely different on the ground, Kerry volunteers coming out of the woodwork. You know the whores don't tell you the truth, why believe these polls? Take them with the grain of salt they were made up with.
BUSH WON'T HAVE TO ASK FOR A DRAFT, BECAUSE DEMOCRATS WILL. AND AT THAT POINT IT WILL BE OFF THE TABLE AS A POLITICAL ISSUE. BUSH-ROVE KNOWS THIS. GOT IT?
A variety of Democrats have already argued for a draft, pointing out (rightly) that the volunteer army uses the poor as cannon-fodder. Bringing in wealth sons and daughters will increase opposition to the war, and be more fair. So it will get bipartisan support.
Wake up and read Machiavelli. Trust Bush? No way.
Bush has stolen American's FAITH! Democrats must emulate Rove: attack Bush on his supposed strength (faith). We no longer have faith in our basic voting procedures and elections. We no longer have faith in the news we see, hear, or read. We no longer have faith in our intelligence services. We no longer have faith in the Presidency.
Vote Kerry, and bring faith back to America.
BUSH WON'T HAVE TO ASK FOR A DRAFT, BECAUSE DEMOCRATS WILL. AND AT THAT POINT IT WILL BE OFF THE TABLE AS A POLITICAL ISSUE. BUSH-ROVE KNOWS THIS. GOT IT?
A variety of Democrats have already argued for a draft, pointing out (rightly) that the volunteer army uses the poor as cannon-fodder. Bringing in wealth sons and daughters will increase opposition to the war, and be more fair. So it will get bipartisan support.
Wake up and read Machiavelli. Trust Bush? No way.
Bush has stolen American's FAITH! Democrats must emulate Rove: attack Bush on his supposed strength (faith). We no longer have faith in our basic voting procedures and elections. We no longer have faith in the news we see, hear, or read. We no longer have faith in our intelligence services. We no longer have faith in the Presidency.
Vote Kerry, and bring faith back to America.
BUSH WON'T HAVE TO ASK FOR A DRAFT, BECAUSE DEMOCRATS WILL. AND AT THAT POINT IT WILL BE OFF THE TABLE AS A POLITICAL ISSUE. BUSH-ROVE KNOWS THIS. GOT IT?
A variety of Democrats have already argued for a draft, pointing out (rightly) that the volunteer army uses the poor as cannon-fodder. Bringing in wealth sons and daughters will increase opposition to the war, and be more fair. So it will get bipartisan support.
Wake up and read Machiavelli. Trust Bush? No way.
Bush has stolen American's FAITH! Democrats must emulate Rove: attack Bush on his supposed strength (faith). We no longer have faith in our basic voting procedures and elections. We no longer have faith in the news we see, hear, or read. We no longer have faith in our intelligence services. We no longer have faith in the Presidency.
Vote Kerry, and bring faith back to America.
ajay,
You left out "Red Cap," a series about British Army MPs, with the luscious Tamzin Outhwaite. They show that on BBC America, too.
ajay,
You left out "Red Cap," a series about British Army MPs, with the luscious Tamzin Outhwaite. They show that on BBC America, too.
ajay,
You left out "Red Cap," a series about British Army MPs, with the luscious Tamzin Outhwaite. They show that on BBC America, too.
This is why I loved Kucinich. "Department of Peace." War as an absolute last resort, no stop-loss crap. Man is a genius.
This is why I loved Kucinich. "Department of Peace." War as an absolute last resort, no stop-loss crap. Man is a genius.
This is why I loved Kucinich. "Department of Peace." War as an absolute last resort, no stop-loss crap. Man is a genius.
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