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I'MMA LET YOU FINISH

bushsucks
Anonymous | 10.20.04 - 2:08 pm | #

This is a surprise? Do people actually see his views of a corporate controlled future as utopian? Yow.
Left_Wing_Fox | 10.20.04 - 2:10 pm | #

iowa is the new ohio
help me hawkeye | 10.20.04 - 2:14 pm | #

Nice fan base, there, Atrios.

Really, how could a young voter possibly go with the Bush camp? We've got all the best people over here on our side.
Tena | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:14 pm | #

This is not a surprise.

For all the techno/sci-fi geeks out there, I just saw "Primer" at the Chicago Film Festival

Check it out if you can:
http://tinyurl.com/44n3g
Yoshimi | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:16 pm | #

Never much cared for cyberpunk SF, though some have been entertaining.

Nice to know that Orson Scott Card isn't the rule.
cory | 10.20.04 - 2:16 pm | #

iowa is the new ohio
Trapper | 10.20.04 - 2:17 pm | #

Hi all,

Iowa is the new Ohio indeed.

You probably have no idea who Art Small is. But check him out; he needs support desperately to help build buzz.

Everybody has written him off, but since he's the Democratic challenger to Charles Grassley (pronounced "EEH-VIL") in Iowa, support of his campaign at this crucial time will go a long way toward tipping the state Blue in the presidential election.

href="https://services.myngp.com/ ngponlineservices/contribution.aspx?X=Cyp3P% 2bh54lD7%2f84gtREQjA%3d%3d">Money, of course, is good--cause he has next to none. In fact, he doesn't even accept donations from special interest groups--never has during his extensive political career.

More importantly, tell people about him. Spread the word. Among a sea of crooks (yes, Dems too), he is one of the few honest ones you can feel good about. He may not win against Grassley, but he can help Kerry win Iowa.

Please go now. Post something supportive on his blog. Post something on DailyKOS or elsewhere (I don't have rights yet). This is crazy enough that it might just work. More to come from me.

-Ranzo
Ranzo | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:17 pm | #

does that men Des Moines
Trapper | 10.20.04 - 2:18 pm | #

Having Gibson on our side is great, but what I wouldn't give to have Douglas Adams still around, firing shots over Bush's bow.
John | 10.20.04 - 2:18 pm | #

Tena, how could ANYONE on a legitimate voter roll possibly go with the Bush camp?? They've created a friggin' fantasy "story" that doesn't exist.

Kind of like the witless protection program, in that regard. (No, you aren't reading that wrong and I didn't misspell it.)
Richard Cranium | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:18 pm | #

must be small brains....don't make much noise.
zuma zuma | 10.20.04 - 2:18 pm | #

Reminds me, anyone catch Orson Scott Card endorsing Bush in that Slate article last week? What a dumb-ass.
Toast | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:20 pm | #

Help! I just had lunch with a coworker who I suspect may be UNDECIDED. We talked about the Sinclair broadcasting thing and when we discussed Kerry's testimony before Congress he indicated interest in it.

Anyone have a link to a great summary of Kerry's (1970?) testimony to Congress? I'd like to print it for him to read tonight.
Texan Embsd by Bush | 10.20.04 - 2:20 pm | #

OT:

"LONDON - Most oil-producing nations are also rife with corruption, and oil companies should provide more information about their operations to help clean up the market, a global watchdog group said Wednesday in an annual report."

Gee, no kidding. I hope they listed America as one of these nations due to Bush.

Oil - the WORST SUBSTANCE known.
wolf-man | 10.20.04 - 2:21 pm | #

...Rocks?

F**#% haloscan
Trapper | 10.20.04 - 2:21 pm | #

Oh shit - "witless protection program"

ROFLMAO

Glad you're back Richard Cranium
Tena | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:22 pm | #

It's pretty obvious where Gibson's sentiment lies.

However, don't think of his novels as advocacy for the future they depict, but as warnings.

Too bad many of his fans really do want to live in such a hellish reality, but then again, they suffer from the libertarian disease of imagining that they will be top dogs, not the serfs.
Gary Frazier | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:23 pm | #

OT blogwhore

The police state is coming

Anyone else curious why this isn't all over the SCLM? Oh right, because mary cheney is a lesbian.
Aethern | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:24 pm | #

Cue freepers whining about how he's not as good as he used to be. See also Clancy, Tom.

This rocks. Mr. Athenae is a huge Gibson fan.

Hey, Keanu, you still out there? You were in a couple of his books made into movies, right?

A.
Athenae | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:24 pm | #

Why a summary? Give him the whole thing.
1971 transcript

Make sure you point out to your friend that Kerry was only talking about the veterans who were at the Winter Soldier conference, NOT all Vietnam Vets. Anyone who actually reads it will see that.
Good luck.
Tow | 10.20.04 - 2:25 pm | #

unfreep the damage...

who would you vote for this week?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6092749/
McAdder | 10.20.04 - 2:26 pm | #

yeah, yeah media matters. He buried the lede. FILM VERSION OF PATTERN RECOGNITION?!?!?

Much easier book for hollywood to handle than Neuromancer et al.
bunny | 10.20.04 - 2:26 pm | #

But William Gibson is a Canadian.

And yes, as the other John said above, the world has dearly missed whatever the late Douglas Adams would have said about the entire post-9/11 situation. He died a few months earlier.
John G | 10.20.04 - 2:27 pm | #

I'm sorry. I misread that and thought it said "Mel Gibson." That would have been something.

D
David Nahm | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:27 pm | #

The police state is coming

Ever wonder if American troops would fire upon American protestors on American streets if BushCo steal another election?

They won't need to; the police in this country are more than willing, and already deployed and ready.
cory | 10.20.04 - 2:27 pm | #

OT: Scotty gets snippy today -
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, you heard the President. He said, I -- he said he's not going to get one (flu shot) this year because he doesn't fall into the category.
Q That wasn't the question.
MR. McCLELLAN: Hang on. Hang on. I'm talking.
Then, a little later:
Q There was a -- this story in The Washington Post, I believe, about Condi Rice doing a whole series of speeches in key battleground states. Is it the White House --
MR. McCLELLAN: Grabbing for headlines now.
Q It's unprecedented for a National Security Advisor.
MR. McCLELLAN: Dr. Rice is the President's National Security Advisor. She has given speeches across the country when she's been invited to places. And I -- the American people are very focused on our highest national security priorities in support of -- that she continued to be accessible to the American people to talk about those priorities. That's what she's doing.
Q Very -- are you saying her speeches are unrelated to the campaign?
MR. McCLELLAN: She accepted are -- the speeches that she has given are engagements that she was invited to attend.
All right, thanks.
Scotty's contempt for the press is naked. And how about the Condi speechifying thing? It's not mentioned on the WH site, like *every other speech she has ever given*. Also, how can the NSA possibly be doing his/her job in a 'time of war' if they're flying around giving speeches?
What if there was another attack and in the weeks leading up to it she was off on the campaign trail? Clearly, Rice is recognized as being useless as an NSA. Rice's function was as a 'coach' to the Chimperor. And a 'wife' of course.
anon | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:29 pm | #

Is the Preznit on the Mood Drugs...or is his a robot?

See how I shameless blogwhored and feebly brought it back on topic?

*attempts to hide shame*
attaturk | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:29 pm | #

OT: More dirty election hi-jinks.

http://tinyurl.com/4qn5q
Yoshimi | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:29 pm | #

Too bad many of his fans really do want to live in such a hellish reality, but then again, they suffer from the libertarian disease of imagining that they will be top dogs, not the serfs.

Yep, The Matrix didn't help that much to dispel matters either, with every wannabe HaXor thinking he could bullet-time better than Keanu.

It's like the idiots who walked out of "Fight Club" and tried to start their own ring matches, completely missing the point.

I think the trouble with Gibson is he created such a vivid world that any message of "look, this neon and rain-soaked yakuzacybertopia is a really bad place. avoid at all costs" is washed away by his brain-piercing descriptions. Gibson is great at making dystopia, dressing it up with heaps of Too-Cool-For-School, but he doesn't have that sense of dread that Orwell grafted into 1984 or Atwood into Handmaid's Tale.

In other words, he's awesome at worlds, but uneven in characters.
Anonymous | 10.20.04 - 2:30 pm | #

No, Gibson was a Vietnam draft evader who later decided to stay in Canada and get Canadian citizenship. I am hardly surprised he supports MMFA.
steve_gilliard | 10.20.04 - 2:30 pm | #

Drat. Anon at 2:30 p.m. is me
John | 10.20.04 - 2:30 pm | #

Argh,

Me better learn me english better.
attaturk | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:31 pm | #

maybe all the Gibson-ites can hack the e-voting machines. Not to switch things for Kerry, mind you....just to make sure that nothing is switched for Bush.

http://crossblogger.blogspot.com
Crossblogger | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:31 pm | #

misread that and thought it said "Mel Gibson." That would have been something.
-I misread it as Euell Gibons
bebe rebozo | 10.20.04 - 2:31 pm | #

steve: Oh, OK. I was just going by Gibson's description of himself as "emigrating."
John G | 10.20.04 - 2:31 pm | #

I suppose the conservative streak among the tech community comes from the defense/security side of things. I can remember when I was young and conservative that the political right had this appealing sort of "gee whiz" attitude towards technology. Besides, they had Star Wars!

Now that I'm more educated and more liberal (although still independent), I can see that so much of that was and is junk science (missile defense, biometric security technology, etc.). Indeed, a number of the conservative tech types I know tend to subscribe to the junk science side of pop culture. Not all, mind you, but some, and I'd even venture to say a majority. As this administration is objectively anti-science (too many "reality-based community" connections), I think they're going to turn off even the junk-science adherents.
Node of Evil | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:32 pm | #

OT

Here in the UK tonight the BBC is showing a film about how the politicians (Bush/Blair) are using they terror threat to scare voters into giving up their freedoms..

It will focus on the Neo Conservatives, and the philosophy of Leo Straus. It is called 'THE POWER OF NIGHTMARES'

It is big deal that this is getting air time on a major tv station. I will let you know if it is any good, and you might start trying to get it shown on USA tv.
sally | 10.20.04 - 2:33 pm | #

http://www.gamefaqs.com/

freep the shit out of this GameFAQS poll...
kerry's winning...but not by as much as any of us would like.
Chase | 10.20.04 - 2:34 pm | #

Steve,

Not is Gibson a naturalized Canadian, but he also lives in the hippiest neighbourhood of the hippiest city in the country.

I miss the West Coast. . . .
Scott | 10.20.04 - 2:35 pm | #

Dear Texan-

Have your friend watch the exchange between Kerry and O'Neill on the Dick Cavett show in 1971 (?) after he reads the transcript. It must be on the web somewhere, anybody got a link?
Spinoza | 10.20.04 - 2:36 pm | #

OT Question:

Scotty's press conference today has me wondering...

When President Kerry appoints a Press Secretary, who do you think it will be? I'd love to see someone who is really gracious, articulate, quick on their feet, and embraces the press corps.

Someone who can change the tone.

Any ideas?
Vicki Stein | 10.20.04 - 2:36 pm | #

I love William Gibson's previous post on Medievilism vs. New Age.

IMHO, It feels like the dark ages.
Yoshimi | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:38 pm | #

"Maddox said, “It is just not moral the things they are saying. They need to listen to both sides.”

Sixteen year old Zack Burgdorf, dressed in military fatigues, shouted, “If you’re gay — go back to Ashland. America’s not made for queers.”

“Especially not Jacksonville,” chimed Maddox."

Wow, the above exchange shows what the wingnuts are really all about.

Be ready for this if chimpco steals the election.

Folks I'll say it again, all liberals need to arm themselves ASAP.

Do not think that you can make an impact by getting arrested. The cops are all ready for mass arrests. Once they've got you you're FUCKED as in GITMOED.

Never get arrested, never directly confront unless you can escape.

Never go quietly if they come to your house.
surfdork | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:38 pm | #

Here's a quote I pulled from Gibson's blog that's pretty funny:

How many Bush administration officials does it take to change a light bulb?

None. There’s nothing wrong with that light bulb. There is no need to change anything. We made the right decision and nothing has happened to change our minds. People who criticize this light bulb now, just because it doesn’t work anymore, supported us when we first screwed it in, and when these flip-floppers insist on saying that it is burned out, they are merely giving aid and encouragement to the Forces of Darkness.
Vesicle Trafficker | 10.20.04 - 2:40 pm | #

To quote a onetime Clinton appointee, when facing down a very prominent GOP member of Congress: "It's hard to have a debate when all the facts are on one side and all the theory is on the other."

Perhaps we should paraphrase his statement: "It's hard to have a debate when all the facts are on one side and all the belief is on the other."
Smitty Werbenmanjensen | 10.20.04 - 2:41 pm | #

(Sorry...quote attributed to John Cleese.)
Vesicle Trafficker | 10.20.04 - 2:41 pm | #

Dear fellow Texan. Try
http://www.seanrobins.com/kerry/ ...1_04_22_all.pdf

I don't know who Sean Robins is, but it is the full transcript.
Kingfish | 10.20.04 - 2:41 pm | #

Do not think that you can make an impact by getting arrested. The cops are all ready for mass arrests. Once they've got you you're FUCKED as in GITMOED.

I'd like to see the police mass arrest 50 million people. The economy would implode.
John | 10.20.04 - 2:42 pm | #

OT: Is George Bush referring here to the same al Zarquawi that his administration had 3 chances to kill, but passed on?

http://tinyurl.com/4q2b7
Theorajones | 10.20.04 - 2:42 pm | #

I don't know about a Pattern Recognition film and neither, it seems, does a Johnny Mnemonic-burned Gibson who, I hope, squeezes Hollywood for every last dime.
But, one never knows. I unexpectedly enjoyed the mash of hijacked concepts that is Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow but the film is a movie Cheeto. It would be nice to see Gibson's excellent concepts elevated with a scenic design as provacative as Blade Runner was on its initial release.
sean | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:43 pm | #

Cyber punk is only good when it's done in Anime.
Mimiru | 10.20.04 - 2:43 pm | #

The link-link to Steven Clemons UPI article was very nice.

http://tinyurl.com/4azqo

What is most fascinating about this is that the conclusion is exactly what I remember reading about before the war started.
The notion that Saddam was so completely neutered militarily that his paranoid attitudes about Iran dictated he try to maintain an image, or bluff, of his weapons capability to deter them.
What is also funny is that it didn't matter. Bush didn't go into Iraq for any other reason than to appease Cheney and his damned PNAC goals of oil conquest. That Cheney manipulated his way into the VP spot to ensure this outcome makes the whole thing even more laugable.

MYOB'
.
MYOB | 10.20.04 - 2:43 pm | #

somewhat on topic, is bruce sterling still serving the dark side of the force? he was writing some pretty pinheaded "globalization is great and anyone who questions it is a luddite" columns for wired a while back. i think he got a little too much into his old sgt. rock comic books about the type he wrote "cryptonomicon". quite a brain drain to lose him, hopefully he's one of the many libertarians who're disenchanted with the chimpinator.
r@d@r | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:44 pm | #

sorry, about the time...still viral after 3 days
r@d@r | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:45 pm | #

I wanted to live in the future described in Neuromancer after I read it in the late 80's.

Of course I was only thinking about the technology described, not how horrible the society described is.

Did not know Orson Scott Card is a Bushman.

He is now on my shiat list, either he thinks shit tastes good or he is selfish looking after his financial interests.

Another addition to the enemies of the people list.
surfdork | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:45 pm | #

"Why a summary? Give him the whole thing.
1971 transcript

Make sure you point out to your friend that Kerry was only talking about the veterans who were at the Winter Soldier conference, NOT all Vietnam Vets. Anyone who actually reads it will see that."
-------------
Tow: THANK YOU! Luckily, that transcript has Kerry's testimony broken up into sections so after I printed it I was able to put a yellow sticky on the page about the Winter Soldier conference and give it to my coworker. He is one of those who thinks that R's and D's are just alike in their behavior, if not in their "pontificating" so I am getting nervous that he may not vote at all. He's a conservative Christian but sees through Dubya's speech to his lack of action on conservative Christian issues.

I'm trying to bring up political issues at lunch each day in a very gentle way (I have a tendancy to get on a soapbox on politics and have to resist that or he'll shut down on me) with my coworker in hopes of winning his vote for our man J.K.
Texan Embsd by Bush | 10.20.04 - 2:47 pm | #

Scroll down that Gibson page to the joke a few threads down.

'How many Bush administration officials does it take to change a light bulb?'

None. There’s nothing wrong with that light bulb. There is no need to change anything. We made the right decision and nothing has happened to change our minds. People who criticize this light bulb now, just because it doesn’t work anymore, supported us when we first screwed it in, and when these flip-floppers insist on saying that it is burned out, they are merely giving aid and encouragement to the Forces of Darkness.

-- John Cleese

Pure classic! Only the emperors of Monty Python could come up with that brilliant move!

MYOB'
.
MYOB | 10.20.04 - 2:48 pm | #

Click on homepage to look at the National Security Advisor's archives on the WH website. According to this, Condi Rice hasn't made any speeches for the campaign. So those whackjobs at the Washington Post are just making shit up.

Seriously, why would they just stop updating Rice's appearances?
anon | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:48 pm | #

Gibson's views are no shocker at all. His futuristic settings are distopic, more so than his characters even notice, because they're right in the middle of it.

Kind of like us.
Sink-clair Broadcasting | 10.20.04 - 2:49 pm | #

When President Kerry appoints a Press Secretary, who do you think it will be? I'd love to see someone who is really gracious, articulate, quick on their feet, and embraces the press corps.

Someone who can change the tone.

-Hey Vicki How about Jon Stewart? That would change the tone.
Spinoza | 10.20.04 - 2:49 pm | #

Texan Embsd by Bush--

the Frontline page has the entire The Choice 2004 program up in sections

I don't think the whole speech is there but there's definitely some of it in the Chapter 2 section -

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/fr...hoice2004/view/

btw, If you haven't watched this program, it's a great survey history of the two candidates.
jeebs | 10.20.04 - 2:51 pm | #

I suppose the conservative streak among the tech community comes from the defense/security side of things.

I always thought it stemmed from the fact that many technically-oriented people were, in their youth, misfits or outcasts of a sort, and developed highly defensive, bitter, even misanthopic personalities as a result. This results in a highly selfish, self-centered attitude, which also seems characteristic of libertarian-leaning conservativism in general. Respect and consideration is only given to those of their own cohort. This personality becomes particularly toxic when surrounded, at work, by generally non-technically-oriented colleagues.

I say this as one who was, while never conservative, a technically-oriented jerk who realized too late the attendant costs.
Anonymous | 10.20.04 - 2:51 pm | #

Gibson is great. I really don't know how much time he spend on the net, but that must be something.
BTW, it doesn't surprise me he's a fan of Media Matters. After all, once ago, he said he was quite the fan of Salam Pax' blog - and ironically, Salam is a huge fan of Gibson.
CluelessJoe | 10.20.04 - 2:51 pm | #

-Hey Vicki How about Jon Stewart? That would change the tone.

If only once a week, like Wednesday or Thursday, Lewis Black could fill in.
John | 10.20.04 - 2:52 pm | #

-I misread it as Euell Gibons

Cripes, Bebe, since I laughed at that, I must be fucking old.
Anonymous | 10.20.04 - 2:52 pm | #

OT: Nice middle class tax cut we got here
....
With bipartisan majorities, they passed a $143 billion bonanza for corporations of every sort, shortly after extending what the lawmakers were pleased to call a "middle-class" tax cut of $146 billion. You might be surprised to learn, as I was, where that "middle class" tax relief actually goes.

According to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities and the Urban Institute-Brookings Institution Tax Policy Center, households in the middle 20 percent of the income scale -- the "middle class" -- receive only 9 percent of the benefits. Their average saving will be $162. Those in households with incomes from $200,000 to $500,00 will be $2,390 better off.
.....
from Broder in WaPo.
We been Cheneyed again!
Anonymous | 10.20.04 - 2:53 pm | #

>Orson Scott Card endorsing Bush in that Slate article last week?

Card is a hard core anti-gay bigot. He's a mormon I think. I have talked about a boycott for his books with a few people. Its doable.
skallas | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:53 pm | #

Sterling didn't write Cryptonomicron -- Neal Stephenson did.
buck | 10.20.04 - 2:54 pm | #

Isn't anyone gonna wish me a happy birthday?
*
Jenny from the Blog | 10.20.04 - 2:54 pm | #

bo = Anonymous @2:53

Vicki,

Molly Ivins?
bo | 10.20.04 - 2:55 pm | #

Spinoza --

No no NO! We need Jon to stay right where he is, no matter who's in charge.
bj | 10.20.04 - 2:55 pm | #

Gibson's views are no shocker at all.

I once read a quote where Gibson said that most of those who rhapsodize over his work, especially those who like to quote the opening line of Neuromancer, miss his point on so many levels.
Anonymous | 10.20.04 - 2:55 pm | #

>His futuristic settings are distopic

Yeah, but to the "libertarian" slashdot/ma's basement nerd crowd they think "wow, wouldnt it be cool to have a big gun and live in a corporate nightmare!" sigh. Life ain't Doom3 kiddies.
skallas | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:55 pm | #

"I'd like to see the police mass arrest 50 million people. The economy would implode."

That is why you call in FEMA who already has contingency plans for mass civil disobedience.

Has had 'em since Iran Contra days specifically in case the US invaded Nicaragua, which the Reagan white house was planning for.

I'm not spouting black helicopter paranoia either so please spare me the tinfoil hat comments.

Correction on the Bruce sterling comment:

Neal Stephenson wrote Cryptonomicon not Sterling.

Yes Sterling still spouts his free market shit.

I remember a piece in Wired where he derided the luddite Europeans for their opposition to GM foods.
He spouted the golden rice mythat to support his postion.

FOLKS when you hear someone say that Golden Rice will cure bilndness in the third world by raising dietary vitamain A levels they are full of shit.

A person would need to eat 1000 pounds of golden rice per day to get the extra vitamin A (google it yourself).

The only reason Golden Rice was developed was to be a PR device for the biotech industry.

You'd think Sterling would do some research before spouting mythical conventional wisdom.

So no I don't think he's on our side unless he corrected his linear cranial rectal inversion.
surfdork | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:55 pm | #

Seriously, why would they just stop updating Rice's appearances?

The nation may be better off with her not on the job. She should have been fire Sept 12 2001. No wait, if she had been fired six months earlier ...
Spinoza | 10.20.04 - 2:56 pm | #

I still remember when I first stumbled across Card at Ornery American. Never read Ender the same again.
Christopher Lee | 10.20.04 - 2:56 pm | #

Jeebs: I was in a hotel watching t.v. when that Frontline show came on PBS. I watched a little of it but I have such a negative physical reaction to watching dubya that I turned it off before it was over.

I'm going to read the transcript TOW pointed us to tonight, in its entirety, after work so I can throw out something substantive about his testimony when the gullible wingers in my office throw out crap about Kerry based on the Swift Boat Liars' commercials. I have hope for my lunch partner as he is actually interested in FACTS.
Texan Embsd by Bush | 10.20.04 - 2:56 pm | #

I'd like to see the police mass arrest 50 million people. The economy would implode.

Which would give them the crisis that they would need to assert full control. It's how Bush operates. Start a war, and then say you can't vote me out of office because I'm a wartime president. Create a crisis, and say I have to take total control because of this crisis.

The future? Try last week.
aethern | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:57 pm | #

FALLUJA, Iraq (Reuters) - U.S. warplanes killed a family of six in raids against rebels led by al Qaeda ally Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, while an international aid agency suspended Iraq (news - web sites) operations on Wednesday after its manager was kidnapped.

A Reuters witness saw a man and a woman and four children, two boys and two girls, being pulled out of the rubble of a razed home in Falluja.

Did God tell you to kill Iraqi children and pregnant women too, Bushboy? I am ashamed to have this fool representing me as an American. He has disgraced America with HIS war....
wolf-man | 10.20.04 - 2:57 pm | #

I feel so old.
Hecate | 10.20.04 - 2:58 pm | #

I've only read 3 of Card's books but he sure seems to have some weird issues with kids. They're always tortured, isolated, deprived, etc.

Makes me hope social services is keeping a close eye on his house....
bj | 10.20.04 - 2:58 pm | #

Wynonna has gig on lesbo love boat, Christians blame media.......
---
...you just can't make up stuff this funny!

The popular country star is scheduled to sing on a Caribbean cruise Jan. 29 through Feb. 2 sponsored by a company called Olivia, which, according to its web site, is “dedicated to providing high quality, safe vacations for lesbian travelers.”

The Traditional Values Coalition is calling Judd’s engagement “disgraceful,” saying it “conflicts with her professed Christian faith” and suggests that Judd has been “misled by the mainstream media on the origins of same-sex attractions and the self-destructive results of such attractions.”

It’s telling members to contact Judd and ask that she cancel the concert, saying on its Web site “Urge her to study what the Bible says in both the Old and New Testaments about homosexuality …. to learn how faith in Christ has set men and women free from bondage to this life-controlling condition.”
jeebs | 10.20.04 - 2:58 pm | #

I still remember when I first stumbled across Card at Ornery American. Never read Ender the same again.
Christopher Lee | 10.20.04 - 2:58 pm | #

PRESIDENT KERRY

Atrios,
How about some more post titles like the above to get us attuned to what it's store for us; maybe with a presidential-looking picture of the big guy.

.
tom | 10.20.04 - 2:58 pm | #

"misread that and thought it said "Mel Gibson." That would have been something.
-I misread it as Euell Gibons"

hah! This is starting to sound like a drinking game we used to play in school - "Barney Rubble." Like "6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon," you had to get from one celebrity or otherwise famous name to "Barney Rubble", only without the limitation of 6 connections.
watertiger | 10.20.04 - 2:59 pm | #

Lewis Black for press secretary - oh yeah! I would love to see him go off on Len Kinsolving. LOL!
Tena | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:59 pm | #

Anyone else wonder what is going on with SINCLAIR today?

I dont' feel like we should let up just because they say they are only airing a portion of the film, etc....
the fact is they are forcing their networks to air something that some of the networks don't think is appropriate, they have fired a star reporter, and they have been irresponsible with their company's stock....

Any word on how they are doing today?
Carolyn | 10.20.04 - 2:59 pm | #

Happy Birthday JftB!
catalexis | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 3:00 pm | #

I suppose the conservative streak among the tech community comes from the defense/security side of things.

I think the more general political streak among techies is libertarian. They hate "tax-and-spend" liberal social policy, nanny state initiatives (like the "V-chip" introduced under Clinton), and government regulation. They also hate government authoritarianism, the religious right, and any restrictions of civil liberties. These sort of libertarians are often inclined to vote Republican (if they are pragmatic enough not to vote for the Libertarian candidate), but this year they are incredibly ticked off at Bush and his renunciation of fiscal conservatism (largest deficits ever), the PATRIOT Act, and imperial foreign policy. They're not fond of Kerry by any stretch, but they are not pleased by Bush.
Pablo | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 3:00 pm | #

"I always thought it stemmed from the fact that many technically-oriented people were, in their youth, misfits or outcasts of a sort, and developed highly defensive, bitter, even misanthopic personalities as a result."
-Anonymous

Right you are. Too many of them look and act like Comic Book Guy on the Simpsons. I know because I work with a few and there must be a flaw in the clone mold. I'm still waiting for the 101st Flying Keyboarders to say, "Worst President Ever".
Yoshimi | 10.20.04 - 3:00 pm | #

Did someone blog that Edward Gibbons is for Kerry? If so that is truly remarkable.

-Oswald Spengler
Anonymous | 10.20.04 - 3:01 pm | #

That is why you call in FEMA who already has contingency plans for mass civil disobedience.

Sorry, I still have to stick to my guns. You mass-lockdown that many millions (who I would reckon are quite smart and clever and make enough to keep the dragon of consumer spending afloat) and down goes the economy.

After all, you drop 20 million people out of circulation, you lose their money, too.

Not to mention the horror of the rest of the world. Sanctions, whether overt or covert, would follow.

Anyone who dreams that Bush or any dictator could hard-rule the country with mass arrests is certain to get crushed, if not by global resistance, then by the resistance at home.
Anonymous | 10.20.04 - 3:01 pm | #

Vicki:

I nominate Jon Stewart for Press Secretary, he would be great but he wouldn't take the pay cut.
krsaz | 10.20.04 - 3:01 pm | #

Sinclair's stock is about to fall back to Earth.
Turnip | 10.20.04 - 3:01 pm | #

Fox is hiring
John G | 10.20.04 - 3:01 pm | #

Speaking of brilliant Canadian SF writers, here's one who's not as well known as Gibson...yet...

Karl Schroeder
A Hermit | 10.20.04 - 3:02 pm | #

Meant to add - was a big day for "pump and dump." End of the day and there are a lot of big sell orders.
Turnip | 10.20.04 - 3:02 pm | #

Game 7 is about as much dystopian science fiction as I can handle right now.
Melanie | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 3:02 pm | #

aethern,
You've reached your blogwhoreage quota for the week. Hope you stop, 'cause much more and I'll think you're an ath hole.
Anonymous | 10.20.04 - 3:02 pm | #

"Which would give them the crisis that they would need to assert full control. It's how Bush operates. Start a war, and then say you can't vote me out of office because I'm a wartime president. Create a crisis, and say I have to take total control because of this crisis."

The process descrbed above is called PROBLEM, REACTION , SOLUTION and was defined by David Icke.

I don't believe in 4th dimensional lizards, fremason conspiracy or any of that crap. However credit is due where credit is due.

The "man" creates a problem prompting the people to have a desired reaction.

The 'man" then offers a solution for the problem the originally created.
surfdork | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 3:02 pm | #

Anon at 3:01 is me. Lousy Haloscan. Eating my ID.
John | 10.20.04 - 3:02 pm | #

Jon Stewart for President, Dave Chappelle for VP
jeebs | 10.20.04 - 3:02 pm | #

I read the link to the Scarlett piece and its great - provides a deeper insight on what is really happening with Bush's strange religiosity. Pretty convincing in my view. The most convincing part he speaks of is the follower's distrust of words and their meanings - which is why they lie with such abandon as well as twist meanings beyond recognition. Scarlett likens this stuff more to New Age magical thinking than Christianity and he certainly lays out a convincing case for that in my opinion. This explains why Bush could have such a catastrophic performance in the debates and still be in the horse race - the followers beliefs are not accessible to language - its about "inner" knowledge and reality. Spooky but makes sense given what we see.

I am looking for a way though to explode this mythology in the followers eyes. Clearly, reality, facts, information has not and will not for them. They cling to their realities like drowning men to floating wood. What would make them lose faith in their vision or version of reality? That is the question...
workingwoman | 10.20.04 - 3:03 pm | #

Happy Birthday J-something-B!!
Spinoza | 10.20.04 - 3:04 pm | #

"I've only read 3 of Card's books but he sure seems to have some weird issues with kids. They're always tortured, isolated, deprived, etc."

Write about what you know. The First Rule for Novelists.
watertiger | 10.20.04 - 3:05 pm | #

Dave Chappelle for press sec. That would be totally great.
Kingfish | 10.20.04 - 3:06 pm | #

Orson Scott Card seems conflicted to me. He wants to be an almost liberal Latter Day Saint. This puts him in the awful position of hoping the people he endorses lose.

Or maybe he has a simpler concept of evil than this world allows.
patrick204 | 10.20.04 - 3:06 pm | #

“Urge her to study what the Bible says in both the Old and New Testaments about homosexuality …"

Indeed, i think it is somewhere in Leviticus where God prohibits entertaining the homosexuals.
cory | 10.20.04 - 3:07 pm | #

I do hate OSCard's politics, but _Ender's Game_ and _Ender's Shadow_ are both great novels, and some of my favorites. It's strange to find stuff like that coming from an idiot conservative, because, as he correctly notes in the introduction to the reissue of EG, the novels sort of discuss the "personhood" of children in a way I haven't really seen in other fiction.
int argc | 10.20.04 - 3:07 pm | #

I wish I was as optimstic as anonymous:
"Sorry, I still have to stick to my guns. You mass-lockdown that many millions (who I would reckon are quite smart and clever and make enough to keep the dragon of consumer spending afloat) and down goes the economy."

Well the Germans manages to MURDER a significan portion of their population a few decades ago.

Don't think it can't happen again.

The rest of the world coming to help? Sanctions?

Nope, it will be payback time and the US has allot of payback coming.
surfdork | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 3:07 pm | #

catalexis & Spinoza......
Thanks! (all I want is Kerry in a Landslide... is that too much to ask?!)

{jenny something blog}
*
Jenny from the Blog | 10.20.04 - 3:07 pm | #

The popular country star is scheduled to sing on a Caribbean cruise Jan. 29 through Feb. 2 sponsored by a company called Olivia, which, according to its web site, is “dedicated to providing high quality, safe vacations for lesbian travelers.”

This is a disgrace - See the upcoming Sinclair news special, Stolen Merkins.
-Lesbian Love Boat Veterans for Truth
bebe rebozo | 10.20.04 - 3:08 pm | #

It will focus on the Neoconservatives, and the philosophy of Leo Straus. It is called 'THE POWER OF NIGHTMARES'
It is big deal that this is getting air time on a major tv station. I will let you know if it is any good, and you might start trying to get it shown on USA tv.
sally | Email | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 2:33 pm | #

Let us know how it turns out Sally. In the meantime I hope you and everyone here can enjoy this quote which I attribute to my reasons for calling Bush a fascist.

"For Platonists are not concerned with the historical (accidental) truth, since they are exclusively interested in the philosophic (essential) truth. Only because public speech demands a mixture of seriousness and playfulness, can a true Platonist present the serious teaching, the philosophic teaching, in a historical, and hence playful, garb.

--Leo Strauss

Bush is a Platonist at heart.
But anything that comes from Leo Strauss must be considered the essence of human evil.

MYOB'
.
MYOB | 10.20.04 - 3:08 pm | #

Dave Chappelle for press sec. That would be totally great.
Kingfish | Email | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 3:06 pm | #

Hey bitches!!

MYOB'
.
MYOB | 10.20.04 - 3:10 pm | #

I think you've misunderstood Mr. Gibson, who has always been liberal leaning and his fan base.

No real surprise here. Go back and read not only the rest of his blog, but a couple of his books.
LarryB | 10.20.04 - 3:11 pm | #

Anyone checked out Sinclair today?

Up $.81
David (Austin Tx) | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 3:13 pm | #

Well the Germans manages to MURDER a significan portion of their population a few decades ago.

Don't think it can't happen again.

The rest of the world coming to help? Sanctions?

Nope, it will be payback time and the US has allot of payback coming.

Er, I think the world has evolved a bit more than the Holocaust, and second I don't believe the world is just going to sit by if Bush goes dictator on us. The world still likes Americans, and if we get taken out of the game, if America is destablized the rest of world knows how much that'll ripple.

And plus, the mediasphere has evolved so much that the rest of the world could track what's happening on American soil in real-time, not to mention the blogger movement beaming out to the world what's happening in America.

Sorry to sound arrogant but the world would come to our rescue if a Rwanda or some other slaughter would happen.

Oh, and you tend to forget the massive fucking tonnage of guns we have on our soil.

Do you really think liberals would go down without fighting back, without the 24/7 media hinted the world about it?

Calm the fuck down, dude.
John | 10.20.04 - 3:13 pm | #

Anyone checked out Sinclair today?

Up $.81
David (Austin Tx) | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 3:13 pm | #

unfreep the damage...

who would you vote for this week?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6092749/
Darth Vegas | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 3:14 pm | #

I keep meaning to give Orson Scott Card a second chance. But when I tried to crack open "Ender's Game" and started cringing at the kids' dialogue ("fart face!") I was reminded of what Douglas Adams said when he was asked whether he read a lot of science fiction. He said he read the first 15 pages of a lot of science fiction.
John G | 10.20.04 - 3:15 pm | #

OT: Sproul shenanigans in PA
(From link on TPM)
exerpts
....
Sproul & Associates, a consulting firm based in Chandler, Ariz., hired to conduct the drive by the Republican National Committee, employed several hundred canvassers throughout the state to register new voters.
....
"We were told that if they wanted to register Democrat, there was no way we were to register them to vote," said Michele Tharp, of Meadville, who said she was sent out to canvass door-to-door and outside businesses in Meadville, Crawford County. "We were only to register Republicans."

Tharp said volunteers were sent door-to-door to seek registrants but were instructed to first ask prospective new voters which candidate they planned to support.

"If they said Kerry, we were just supposed to say thank you and walk away," Tharp said.
...
Much of the controversy yesterday centered on the registration drive in Crawford County, where canvassers claimed to be owed thousands of dollars after hunting out Bush supporters.

"If they were a Kerry voter, we were just supposed to walk away," said Michael Twilla, of Meadville, who said he has been paid for only eight of 72 hours he worked.

Twilla provided the Post-Gazette with a copy of the script he said he had been given.

It instructs the canvassers to hand unregistered Bush supporters a clipboard with a registration form, and to advise them the canvassers will personally deliver the forms to the local courthouse.

A lower portion of the form also advises the canvassers to ask undecided voters two questions: "Do you consider yourself pro-choice or pro life?" and "Are you worried about the Democrats raising taxes?" If voters say they are pro-life, the form says, "Ask if they are registered to vote. If they are pro-choice, say thank you and walk away."

The form also tells canvassers, "If anyone asks who you are working for, it's 'Project America Vote.' "

America Votes, whose name is similar, is a self-described nonpartisan voter registration organization sponsored by generally liberal-leaning groups.
...
bo | 10.20.04 - 3:16 pm | #

Bruce Sterling is no friend of Bush. Here's another entry from Gibson's blog:
*************************
Friday, October 15, 2004
posted 7:40 AM

"Bush talks and thinks like Milosevic. He will lose, but the most disheartening thing is the prospect of his religio-nationalist reality-deniers clinging fiercely to the sacred glory of their Lost Cause for the next hundred years. We live under the Confederacy. We're a podunk bunch of swaggering pious hicks."

--Bruce Sterling, via email

****************************
Amen, Bruce.
Ras_Nesta | 10.20.04 - 3:17 pm | #

Doesn't surprise me. How many of you have read "Pattern Recognition"?
Anonymous | 10.20.04 - 3:18 pm | #

I do hate OSCard's politics, but _Ender's Game_ and _Ender's Shadow_ are both great novels, and some of my favorites. It's strange to find stuff like that coming from an idiot conservative,

Not really. It happens all the time. I like some Wagnerian opera.
Monica_CA | 10.20.04 - 3:18 pm | #

They didn't want to change that light bulb until Howard Dean said it was burnt out . . .
Bats | 10.20.04 - 3:19 pm | #

Bush is a Platonist at heart.
-Well maybe Wolfowitless and his ilk. Bush himself has the philosophical depth of a dried turd left in the Mojave Desert by a armadillo on LSD.
Spinoza | 10.20.04 - 3:19 pm | #

John G,

Yeah, the dialogue can be unconvincing at times, but I remain convinced that it's a result of Card's unwillingness to put "swears" in kids' mouths. Sorta like watching a movie on network TV--yeah, it feels awkward, but the movie can still be entertaining.
int argc | 10.20.04 - 3:20 pm | #

Happy Birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday Jenny from the bloh-oggg! Happy Birthday to you!

What about Keith Olbermann for Press Secretary?

I like your other choices, though!
Vicki Stein | 10.20.04 - 3:22 pm | #

Bush can't even pronounce "Platonist." But he's got that gotdamned "he can run but he can't hide" mantra down pat.

Frickin' Libruls suck hind teat fer makin' me work so hard when I should kickin' back on mah ranch.

homepage for article.
watertiger | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 3:23 pm | #

int: Oh, that makes sense. Hmm.
John G | 10.20.04 - 3:24 pm | #

John G,

Of course, that said, I still prefer to watch movies with swearing on DVD... I wish Card had just gone ahead and put the language in there, but I suppose then it would have been hard to get into high school libraries and the like.
int argc | 10.20.04 - 3:25 pm | #

When I read Ender's Game, I thought it was great. Having read a number of other books of Card's, I've gotten to the point where the more I read, the less I think of him as a writer. His understanding of people has seemed very simplistic and, let's face it, I've gotten tired of reading about self-important protagonists telling everybody how brilliant they are.

As for his comment at Slate, anybody who decides to vote for Bush because "Personal honesty is also important to me" is living in a seriously different reality than I am.
Rick | 10.20.04 - 3:26 pm | #

Yoshimi -- I read Gibson's new-age post but don't agree, either with him or Steve Clemons that we're trying to beat back a return to medievalism. The superstitious-religious strain has always been with us, and I resent current faith-based-ers being written off as new-aged. There are a lot of valuable aspects to new-aged thinking -- wholistic critiques of issues that address inter-relatedness of what have been in the past viewed as discrete areas of culture/politics/policy, for one thing.
cs | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 3:27 pm | #

The process descrbed above is called PROBLEM, REACTION , SOLUTION and was defined by David Icke.

Its hardly unique or original to Icke; the idea of the cult providing a source of stress, which would create a feeling of desperation, and then providing the cultists with a relief for that stress, that they would enthusiastically support, is common in works on cults. Mark Gallanter's book "Cults" is where I remember seeing it laid out best, but I've seen it other places as well.
cmdicely | 10.20.04 - 3:27 pm | #

Please do not give armadillos LSD. They have a hard enough life.
KIngfish | 10.20.04 - 3:28 pm | #

OT--what is up with Sinclair today? Last I heard they were still showing Stolen Honor thursday and the other POW thing Friday? Any news?
Andy T. | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 3:29 pm | #

Favorite Gibson passage - just substitute "Fox News" for "Slitscan":

"Anything that might be of interest to Slitscan. Which is to say, Laney, anything that might be of interest to Slitscan’s audience. Which is best visualized as a vicious, lazy, profoundly ignorant, perpetually hungry organism craving the warm god-flesh of the anointed. Personally I like to imagine something the size of a baby hippo, the color of a week-old boiled potato, that lives by itself, in the dark, in a double-wide on the outskirts of Topeka. It’s covered with eyes and it sweats constantly. The sweat runs into those eyes and makes them sting. It has no mouth, Laney, no genitals, and can only express its mute extremes of murderous rage and infantile desire by changing the channels on a universal remote. Or by voting in presidential elections."

William Gibson - "Idoru"
puhleeze | 10.20.04 - 3:29 pm | #

Having read a number of other books of Card's, I've gotten to the point where the more I read, the less I think of him as a writer.

YES. I love the books I mentioned, but I'm not so much a fan of just about anything else. Shadows_of_the_Hegemon_ was OK, _Shadow_Puppets_ disappointing, and I couldn't get into any of his other worlds at all. Thankfully, I didn't read enough of him to get burned out, so I still treasure EG and ES.
int argc | 10.20.04 - 3:29 pm | #

his newer comment is even better, when talking about a newspaper which could not make up its mind:

"We can see that the person now in office has led us into a terrible situation, and clearly has no idea what to do, and if reelected will continue to do more of the same. But his opponent has not given us a sufficiently exact plan of action indicating what he intends to do during the next four years -- regardless of what events might take place in the meantime. Therefore, obviously, the right thing to do is to stick to the idiot we know, who will continue to do the same, but who at least has never been accused of suggesting that Americans committed atrocities in Vietnam." "
anon | 10.20.04 - 3:30 pm | #

On the subject of SF writers, one wonders what freepers now think of Heinlein's "If This Goes On", in which a televangelist--"Reverend Nehemiah Scudder"--turns himself into the Prophet Incarnate and takes over the US in the early 21st century. A lot closer to reality than Starship Troopers.
Chuck Feney | Email | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 3:28 pm | #

You do know that Heinlein was a fascist?
And according to Isaac Asimov was the biggest asshole in the industry.

MYOB'
.
MYOB | 10.20.04 - 3:35 pm | #

Since the entire life cycle of the armadillo seems to be birth -> wander circuitously to the nearest highway -> die... LSD would explain a lot.
Falstaff | 10.20.04 - 3:35 pm | #

working woman--to paraphrase the words of Thomas Kuhn, they must be offered a comparitive paradigm to replace the one in crisis. They will not give up even a fatally flawed model of the universe without an acceptable replacement. Design one that meets their minimum expectations but offers more enlightened/civilized systems for dealing with "others," and you could then start edumacating them. Might take a couple of generations, but.... well, patience IS a virtue.
Cole the Younger | 10.20.04 - 3:36 pm | #

Happy Birthday, Jenny from the blog!
May you have food and love for always.
Echidne | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 3:37 pm | #

To my untrained eye, this poll seems very important...

http://www.surveyusa.com/ Scoreca...ents101804.html

It shows the leanings of Independents state by state. It looks very good for Kerry.
Carolyn | 10.20.04 - 3:37 pm | #

MYOB,

Glad someone else hates Heinlen as well. Saying you hate Heinlen in a discussion about sci-fi is a bit like pissing on Mozart in a classical music chat room, but I've always thought he was a worthless hack--one who wrote boring stories about unlikeable characters, with a dose of unpalateable political philosophy for spice. Sort of like Ayn Rand in space.
int argc | 10.20.04 - 3:37 pm | #

I have no problem if the armadillo choose to drop acid themselves. I am only saying that forcing them to do acid will only lead to wigged out little creatures.
Kingfish | 10.20.04 - 3:38 pm | #

surfdork

The actual number of German "undesirables" (Jews, gays, etc.) sent to the camps was a relatively small percentage of the German population -- can't put my finger on it right now, but if memory serves me correctly it was about 2% of the German population. The vast majority of those who were murdered in the camps came from conquered territory. The question is not how large a number could be interned by the gov't if it came to that, but how few do they have to arrest or silence to have their desired effect. I'm sorry to say that I think a few hundred thousand would do it.
Toonscribe | 10.20.04 - 3:39 pm | #

Oh Brother. More damage control needed. Apparently THK made a comment that she doesn't know if Laura Bush has ever "had a real job." In the context of the comment, it's no big deal, but Karen Hughes is already all over it like a fly on shit, saying that THK "remarks are indicative of an unfortunate mind-set that seeks to divide women based on who works at home and who works outside the home."

THK, please squash this like a bug and apologize.

I'll try to get the link.
Vicki Stein | 10.20.04 - 3:40 pm | #

What anon said. And happy b'day to a fellow Atrion.

I like to read "Starship Troopers" ironically, and I still think that "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" is a good read, but otherwise Heinlein sux.
Anonymous | 10.20.04 - 3:42 pm | #

My comments inserted

Er, I think the world has evolved a bit more than the Holocaust

Sorry I disagree, the world did nothing for Rwanda, Biafra, Timor etc.

Our Vietnam and Iraq behavior is hardly evolved and is reminicent of the einstatsgruppen.

I think we've actually DEVOLVED.

and second I don't believe the world is just going to sit by if Bush goes dictator on us.

I hope you belief ends up being true. Unfortunatley I don't believe the world will come to our overt aid. Some countries may offer refugee status and I think that will be it.
The world still likes Americans, and if we get taken out of the game, if America is destablized the rest of world knows how much that'll ripple.

Well of course, the world holds our debt. Who will the Chinese sell to?

Regarding the world still linking us, I only have obversation of my travels to offer. Have you seen how the average American behaves in Mexico on vacation?
Not making a good impression there.

And plus, the mediasphere has evolved so much that the rest of the world could track what's happening on American soil in real-time, not to mention the blogger movement beaming out to the world what's happening in America.

People will know for a while until the internet is locked down in America.

Can't happen?

The seizure of indymedia servers is a start.

Regarding the strength of the blogosphere, don't give us too much credit. Yes, we have influence however TV is still #1.
If the mediasphere was effective in conveying facts to John Q Public then Bush would not be close in the polls (whose accuracy I question).

Sorry to sound arrogant but the world would come to our rescue if a Rwanda or some other slaughter would happen.

Like Dalfour?

Who? Russia? France? China?

Oh, and you tend to forget the massive fucking tonnage of guns we have on our soil.

The amount of personally owned weapos is a good thing, it provides a deterrence, a stinger against the powers in control.
surfdork | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 3:42 pm | #

Vicki -- I like the Keith Olbermann suggestion. I'd like to see Ron Reagan. He's really much more knowledgable than he may sometimes seem on the babble-head shows he's part of. I've only watched him on MSNBC or whatever he's on a couple of times, but he seems to be able to stay very focused in spite of all the cross-prattle going on around him.
cs | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 3:43 pm | #

http://tinyurl.com/49qte

NY Times Article
Vicki Stein | 10.20.04 - 3:43 pm | #

Laura had a great job as a dealer in college, good cash flow, no taxes.
krsaz | 10.20.04 - 3:44 pm | #

THK should muse that "Karen Hughes reminds me of Linda Tripp... has anyone ever seen them together?"
Falstaff | 10.20.04 - 3:44 pm | #

Phooey, I didn't link it correctly. Haste makes waste. Here's the url:

http://tinyurl.com/49qte
Vicki Stein | 10.20.04 - 3:44 pm | #

aethern,
You've reached your blogwhoreage quota for the week. Hope you stop, 'cause much more and I'll think you're an ath hole.

Ok, I'm sorry, I won't try to bring people's attention to things that I think are important anymore. I'll just keep my postings to talking about how much I don't like Bush and will refrain from directing people to my blog when I think it might be important and/or relevant. In fact, why don't I just go ahead and take my blog down now, just so you won't think I'm an 'ath hole'.
aethern | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 3:45 pm | #

Snoopy's dog wrote books...?
GeeDubya | 10.20.04 - 3:45 pm | #

not to mention Laura was an entrepreneur in the nascent assassination-by-car business during her high school days...
int argc | 10.20.04 - 3:45 pm | #

hey is it just me or has anyone noticed a shift in air?

It feels like 'common wisdom' is changing, that the media and people in general are feeling like Kerry is gonna win...

Of course I live a city that is leaning 80% Kerry, so this could be coloring things...

But still I feel pretty good.
Darth Vegas | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 3:46 pm | #

cs ~ I think Olbermann's great. I also really like Lawrence O'Donnell, he holds his own pretty well. Sometimes, though, he strikes me as bemused with the whole charade of the Bush White House. I think he feels like he's in a parallel universe.

krsaz, yeah. It's hard work being Laura. She works hard.
Vicki Stein | 10.20.04 - 3:47 pm | #

Ron Reagan, Jr. for Democratic Governor of California.
Kingfish | 10.20.04 - 3:47 pm | #

aethern,

there's a difference between linking your blog and blogwhoring. you yourself said that the link was blogwhoring and that it was OT... you should expect the occasional flame when you do that.

trying to make this out to be some sort of ideological monoculture when you're being slapped down for etiquette and not content is kinda childish.
int argc | 10.20.04 - 3:48 pm | #

Its hardly unique or original to Icke; the idea of the cult providing a source of stress, which would create a feeling of desperation, and then providing the cultists with a relief for that stress, that they would enthusiastically support, is common in works on cults. Mark Gallanter's book "Cults" is where I remember seeing it laid out best, but I've seen it other places as well.

I'm talking about the process applied at geopolitical level in which Icke was the first to clearly define the process as Problem, Reaction Solution. Nowhere in my post did I equate this process to cults nor made any inference to cult behavior.

Also, Problem, Reaction , Solution describes the process in 3 WORDS as opposed to your entry.
surfdork | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 3:49 pm | #

Darth:

I have noticed a lot more discussion of a Kerry Administration and President Kerry in the air. It's very cool.

Of course, I'm here most of the time when I notice it, so that may not be very relevent. I like the sound of The Kerry Administration though.
krsaz | 10.20.04 - 3:49 pm | #

int argc, et al-- when I was about, oh, 10 years old I thought Heinlein was All That...then I grew up.

The talk about Heinnie as being an absolute prat, an arrogant asshole, and a fascist to boot, is probably most apparent in Number of the Beast, which presents the most mysogynistic, self-absorbed, intellectually arrogant bunch of characters meant to be "sympathetic" I've ever seen assembled in one place. I'll admit I could never finish it because of the obnoxious characters, who I'm convinced Heinlein thought were reflections of himself.
Cole the Younger | 10.20.04 - 3:50 pm | #

Kingfish,

I could live with that suggestion about Ron Reagan Jr. It's be cool to have a ballet dancer in the governor's mansion. Imagine the galas! Imagine the balls! If a former body builder can make it, then certainly the son of a former president and a natural born citizen could make it. He'll never run, though.
Anonymous | 10.20.04 - 3:51 pm | #

Karen Hughes = Linda Tripp VERY FUNNY.

Karen Hughes is just plain EVIL sharing the throne of assholiness with Hot Karl.
surfdork | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 3:52 pm | #

int argc, et al-- when I was about, oh, 10 years old I thought Heinlein was All That...then I grew up.

Funny, this perfectly describes my devotion to the libertarian philosophy in toto. Although I'm ashamed to admit that I was older than 10 when I realized the error of my ways...

Haven't read "Number of the Beast," but then I haven't been able to make it through ANY Heinlen. How could I have left out misogyny from my earlier rant?
int argc | 10.20.04 - 3:52 pm | #

On the first point, I do apologize if it offends people, but I don't understand why it should annoy anyone. If you don't want to read it, then don't click on the link. On the second point, I wasn't making it out to be an idealogical monoculture. I was saying that I think if it is somehow against the rules to link your blog when you feel like you have something to add, then that is a stupid rule. Just my opinion.
Aethern | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 3:53 pm | #

Aethern,

Thanks, that'd be great.

Alternately, you could try posting for a while without blogwhoring.

More people might go to your blog if they see you have something to say.

Look at Philalethes and the rest of team P.H.A.T. their comments here aren't always little ads for their own blogs.

Even attaturk doesn't blogwhore with every comment. (Not to mention he's pretty funny when he does blogwhore.)
thought | 10.20.04 - 3:54 pm | #

Even the women characters in Number hate women. It's really a dreadful book, don't bother unless you wish to confirm your view of the man.
Cole the Younger | 10.20.04 - 3:54 pm | #

CoNN just labelled Ken Duberstein a 'Democratic Strategist'. Um, what the fuck?

That said, it's a bit weird that both Hilary Rosen and Jack Valenti are serving as Kerry surrogates this time round. I mean, it's obvious that former record and movie lobbyists would lean towards the Dems, but they've been fucking vilified over the past decade.

But now that Rosen isn't shilling for the RIAA, she's a damned good surrogate, especially on lesbian and gay issues. And Valenti's not bad, either.

Gawd, I need to wash my mouth out.
anonymous in nc | 10.20.04 - 3:55 pm | #

You can't tell which character is speaking (read proselytizing) unless you see their name after the word "said." They are all obviously the same voice--Heinlein's.
Cole the Younger | 10.20.04 - 3:56 pm | #

Anonymous, I think your right about Ron, Jr. not wanting to run. We could draft him though if there isn't any other good canidates. I have heard strange tales about people who are "thinking" about running. These include Rob Riener and Tom Hanks. I even heard that Farris was thinking of running for mayor of New York and what about the urban legand of Ben Afflact running for Kerry empty seat. I all strange rumors, but what the hell if they want to run celbs, we got a bushel of them. I know that the bassist of Nirvana is eyeing a state house seat.
Kingfish | 10.20.04 - 3:56 pm | #

Kingfish -- I've heard Ron Reagan say he's not interested in elective office. But he's smart, informed, understands politics and has the gift for gab. I'd much rather see him as press secretary than relegated to those silly ego-fests that pass of news analysis.

Vicki -- The problem with Keith Olbermann is that I'm liking what he's doing so much with his countdown that I'd hate to see him gone.
cs | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 3:56 pm | #

But let me say that I don't want to create a big fuss about this... we've got bigger fish to fry here. I'm not linking my blog just for the sake of getting people to come to my blog, but for the sake of exposing people to something that I feel is important and that I don't see people talking about. If that is unwelcome, then I will cease and desist.
aethern | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 3:56 pm | #

Laura has done so much as first lady. . .
lets see she. . .
then there was that big. . .
Why just last month she. . .

What the fuck has she done as first lady, really, honestly, anyone, anyone, Buehler...
krsaz | 10.20.04 - 3:57 pm | #

OT: CNN

Ken Duberstein: "Kerry is being more negative than Bush"

"Democratic consultant" says CNN banner for him.

Ken Duberstein is an Ass.

Geez sorry that Reality is a bummer
sgo | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 3:58 pm | #

I have noticed a lot more discussion of a Kerry Administration and President Kerry in the air. It's very cool.

I don't know whether it's just that it's a sunny, sunny day in WNC, but today my inner pessimism broke away. I really don't doubt it now. Bush's speeches just had the air of someone who's going down. Someone who's lost it. Cheney, too.
anonymous in nc | 10.20.04 - 3:58 pm | #

Also, Problem, Reaction , Solution describes the process in 3 WORDS as opposed to your entry.
surfdork

2 words: Stress bonding

or

2 words: Stockholm syndrome
thought | 10.20.04 - 3:58 pm | #

Number was an AWFUL book. Totaly soured me on Heinlen.
Darth Vegas | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 3:59 pm | #

Look, you obviously think hell's around the corner, and that's your opinion, but honestly whatever you are thinking won't come to pass, primarily because BushCo botches everything it touches.

Besides the real power brokers in Team Bush don't give a care about us. It's about securing oil rights.

As for traveling abroad, you know I was sitting in a cafe in Paris the day Gulf War 2 started. You know what, the Parisians understood the difference between me and Bush. Yes, Americans can be as rude as Bill O'Reilly on the phone, but look, the world still loves Americans. Listen to Desmond Tutu when he was on the Daily Show. Other parts of the world, who happen to have a better media than we do, understand exactly what we are going through.

Look, I think it comes down to whether you want to bitch and moan, or if you are going to use all your energies toward going door-to-door, working the phones and getting people to the polls. You got to drive hard to Nov. 2, and then work as hard after. This is our country, god-fucking-damnit. That's our flag over there. That's our Constitution. We have the resources and brains to make America a shining beacon again, just as we did after the Depression, just as we did during the struggle for Civil Rights. I used to be downcast, but I can't anymore. I'm going to fight, I want you to do the same. It's your country, too.

You gotta pick. Hope or fear. Team Bush wants you to pick fear. You wanna be their dystopian little bitch? Fine, but you made their job easier, and your nightmare come on a little faster.
John | 10.20.04 - 3:59 pm | #

Aw c'mon, I want to see Al Sharpton as press secretary.
pbg | 10.20.04 - 3:59 pm | #

If the corporate media trys to blow this Laura Bush comment up lets ram the number of soldiers deaths in Iraq down their throats. How dare they bring up such a non story when the youth of our nation are being killed for a GD lie!!!!!!!!!!1
Kingfish | 10.20.04 - 3:59 pm | #

aethern,

it's not against THE RULES, it's just poor etiquette. to put a more polite face on what "thought" said, people will be more inclined to look the other way at blogwhoring if you contribute frequently without doing so. it's also less like blogwhoring if you sorta summarize the post you're linking and then add that you talk about it in more detail on your blog.

apologize for misunderstanding you. the sentence beginning "I'll just keep my postings to talking about how much I don't like Bush" sounded like you were indicting the culture here.
int argc | 10.20.04 - 4:00 pm | #

Darth, krsaz, interesting, isn't it? As if not a change in the fundamental facts but a change in imagination might sway the course of history...

there's the "reality-based community" for you.
Anonymous

I take my lead from the president and no longer pay attention to pesky little things like facts.

The mind and the imagination are a hell of a lot more powerful than you give them credit for, but then you obviously aren't using yours.
krsaz | 10.20.04 - 4:00 pm | #

With the talk of a Kerry administration...

I had a really good bud of mine (chief union steward ~ yeah, I know the adage about management and the help, but I defy common wisdom, so sue me) come up to my office today and he was acting like a whiny pansy. "Kerry's gonna lose, I feel it in the air. Why is he behind in the polls? Whaaaaa!"

I hate that kind of defeatist attitude 13 days out! So unlike my friend, too. Sometimes the "Christians for Bush" in the shop (about 20% of his fellow union members had tee shirts made up to support their loyalty for the feckless one) really get to my bud. Anyway, I talked him up, showed him the poll diaries on kos and on a few other sites, but still...I wanted to tell him to grow a spine ~ for today at least. Actually, he usually has very broad shoulders, but today, it was weird.

Love you bud, should you end up reading this (you know who you are).
Vicki Stein | 10.20.04 - 4:00 pm | #

The talk about Heinnie as being an absolute prat, an arrogant asshole, and a fascist to boot, is probably most apparent in Number of the Beast

I think he's one of the most dreadful writers who ever lived, and that had always had barely submerged fascistic notions even in his early work, but you're right...that book is completely repellent. And even more than that, it's embarassing.

On the other hand, I softened towards him personally after Philip K Dick said that despite their political differences, Heinlein had helped him very selflessly. Dick absolutely loved him for that.
Philalethes | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 4:01 pm | #

hey is it just me or has anyone noticed a shift in air?

I just saw a bra downwind.
Anonymous | 10.20.04 - 4:01 pm | #

I'm sorry, I meant to say, "I don't think Laura Bush has ever had a real man."
THK | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 4:01 pm | #

OK sorry for the typo,

I know that Philalethes is not part of team P.H.A.T., I know that.
thought | 10.20.04 - 4:01 pm | #

These include Rob Riener and Tom Hanks.

...Name recognition is a great thing, but unless a guy/gal is real sharp on the issues.. I don't like the celebrity candidate.

You end up with people like Bush... big name, but needs to be explained the difference between the Swiss and the Swedish.
Falstaff | 10.20.04 - 4:01 pm | #

Get 'em John...great post!
workingwoman | 10.20.04 - 4:02 pm | #

calling heinlein a fascist is at best simplistic.

I will accept racist.(farnhams freehold) but not fascist.

Heinleins characters were almost all empowered individuals who consistently put their own needs ahead of the state. As one of the primary definitions of fascist is the "good of the state over the good of the individual" The labels does not fit.

For that matter please explain to me how "The moon is a harsh mistress" is for its time anything less than liberal in its views.(and a kickass book!)
Anonymous | 10.20.04 - 4:02 pm | #

Nice!

I thought Pattern Recognition was his best work since the Sprawl trilogy.
wtfwjd? | 10.20.04 - 4:02 pm | #

Echidne & Vicki -

A song and sustenance. All we need is a new prez and I'll have everything... thanks.
*
Jenny from the Blog | 10.20.04 - 4:02 pm | #

aethern,

it's not against THE RULES, it's just poor etiquette. to put a more polite face on what "thought" said, people will be more inclined to look the other way at blogwhoring if you contribute frequently without doing so. it's also less like blogwhoring if you sorta summarize the post you're linking and then add that you talk about it in more detail on your blog.

apologize for misunderstanding you. the sentence beginning "I'll just keep my postings to talking about how much I don't like Bush" sounded like you were indicting the culture here.
int argc

Personally, I detest blogwhores.

In fact, I just blogged on that topic.
Holden Caulfield | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 4:03 pm | #

Kingfish, anonymous was me. Typing too fast. Not. good. at. it.
Vicki Stein | 10.20.04 - 4:03 pm | #

I don't want to seem to positive, but I have been on a lot of campaigns since 1984. I have never scene the level of support for any candidate. I also know a loser when I see one, worked my ass off for two or three when I knew it was a lost cause. This smells like victory. The Democrats are pumped, lets keep them that way, the polls lie (remeber that Gallop had Gore down by I think 13 points going into election day), and the ability to force the media to keep it fair is making a differrance. Look at the crowds at both Kerry and Bush rallies, who looks more energized. (sorry for the spelling, I suck at spelling).
Kingfish | 10.20.04 - 4:04 pm | #

And I apologize as well. I'm a bit new to the blogosphere, and I will try to pay more attention to the etiquette in the future.
Aethern | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 4:04 pm | #

I have noticed a lot more discussion of a Kerry Administration and President Kerry in the air. It's very cool.

I don't know whether it's just that it's a sunny, sunny day in WNC, but today my inner pessimism broke away.

Reality IS much better then the spell the US has been under aint it?

Sure its can be scary looking at the work ahead, but at least we dont have to bow down to some effite Priest King that we have been under.
Darth Vegas | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 4:04 pm | #

krsaz,

Why, don't you remember? The perenially be-shawled Mrs. Bush was about to have all those lovely poets in their flowing shirts and breeches come to the White House and read poetry . . . but turned into Cruella DeVille wearing a dog coat at the slightest hint of dissent from the poets.

Not exactly a job; more like a con.
watertiger | 10.20.04 - 4:05 pm | #

anony--I'll admit that you have a technical point about Heinlein and fascism. I suppose I meant the term in the sense that he was a fuckhead.

Sorry for the confusion in terminology.
Cole the Younger | 10.20.04 - 4:06 pm | #

Aethern-Strikes me you are always considerate. Don't change a thing.

Oh Oh Fox is going after Eliot Spitzer -blaming him for Wall St problems...referring to his escapade.
"I don't know which is worse, terrorism or Spitzer"
Gee, let's shoot the sheriff. He's making some thieves get their hands of the till.
Spinoza | 10.20.04 - 4:07 pm | #

Falstaff, I totally agree. I was just putting some rumors in the air to see if anyone else had heard anything. I do think Ron, Jr. would be a good candidate. All I know is that after this election, which for me in Louisiana goes on till Decemeber, that I am cutting a check to who ever is running against Arnold, Bloomburg, and Romeny. Big Dog is back in the fight.
Kingfish | 10.20.04 - 4:07 pm | #

krsaz,

I can't think of anything Mrs. Bush has done as first lady. No impression comes to mind. Nothing, nada, zippo. Weird, that.
Vicki Stein | 10.20.04 - 4:07 pm | #

Jenny ftB,

Hippo, bridie, two ewes
Hippo, bridie, two ewes
Hippo, bridie,
Hippo, bridie,
Hippo, bridie,
Two ewes.

(From a Boynton birthday card. You have to visualize the pictures.)
bo | 10.20.04 - 4:08 pm | #

Holden, great Kerry pics! Love the one with the baby, and also the one at night, and the one with the confetti, and...
Vicki Stein | 10.20.04 - 4:09 pm | #

Methinks the question regarding W's puppetmasters (to allude to Heinnie again) is whether they will settle for the "whole lot more than they ever could have dreamed when they installed the idiot" or whether they will be hooked by the temptation to "put it all on red 5 and go for broke."

Although I have no evidence that they are even slightly intelligent, they do display the cunning survival instincts of the lone predator, and I suspect they will not resort to violence or armed coup (although they see no risk in keeping up the old pattern of lies, deception, intimidation, and emotional manipulation).
Cole the Younger | 10.20.04 - 4:09 pm | #

anony--I'll admit that you have a technical point about Heinlein and fascism. I suppose I meant the term in the sense that he was a fuckhead.

Best thing I've read all day. Thank you Cole.
int argc | 10.20.04 - 4:10 pm | #

What are the blogwhoring rules again?

I'm just sitting here in my glass house.
attaturk | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 4:10 pm | #

"I can't think of anything Mrs. Bush has done as first lady. No impression comes to mind. Nothing, nada, zippo. Weird, that."
Vicki Stein | Email | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 4:07 pm | #

Not weird, just fundie winger role-model. A woman doing stuff and getting attention is so Hillary, dontcha think?
Cole the Younger | 10.20.04 - 4:11 pm | #

blogwhoring rules - as long as it's free it's not whoring.
art linkletter | 10.20.04 - 4:11 pm | #

just to add to the fun, Number of the beast blew goats and jobe blew harder(the cat who walks thru wall shoulda walked right back out)

We should note that he had a brain aneurism during beast. All books afterward suck(as do some before)
Anonymous | 10.20.04 - 4:12 pm | #

int argc--the best thing I've heard all day was that I was "going to make it" after being rushed to the ER with my newly discovered anaphalaxis reaction to a yellow jacket sting.

Sheesh. Fun fun fun...!
Cole the Younger | 10.20.04 - 4:13 pm | #

I can't think of anything Mrs. Bush has done as first lady.

Besides re-introducing cigarettes to the WHite House?
wtfwjd? | 10.20.04 - 4:13 pm | #

I can't think of anything Mrs. Bush has done as first lady.

Xanax. Vicodin. A pack of Camel straights a day?
anonymous in nc | 10.20.04 - 4:14 pm | #

on CNN

Karen Hughes is now denying the Pat Robertson "no casualties" comments.
Spinoza | 10.20.04 - 4:14 pm | #

Holden, great Kerry pics! Love the one with the baby, and also the one at night, and the one with the confetti, and...
Vicki Stein

Thanks, that was Athenae's work.

blogwhoring rules - as long as it's free it's not whoring.
art linkletter

Right.

From now on we'll call it blogslutting.
Holden Caulfield | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 4:14 pm | #

int argc--the best thing I've heard all day was that I was "going to make it" after being rushed to the ER with my newly discovered anaphalaxis reaction to a yellow jacket sting.

Holy crap! Hope you feel better soon, that stuff is no joke.
int argc | 10.20.04 - 4:14 pm | #

I do think Ron, Jr. would be a good candidate.

...He would be. He's thoughtful, intellectually curious, smarter than his Dad, and has a way of coming across as a very credible earnest likable person.

I just don't like recruiting actors and jocks as political leaders. They tend to master the theater of the job, but leave the substance to the script writers.
Falstaff | 10.20.04 - 4:15 pm | #

To Karen Hughes,
Spare us all. Laura Bush's maid works inside the home. Anyone know if the brats had nannys?
Yoshimi | 10.20.04 - 4:15 pm | #

"I can't think of anything Mrs. Bush has done as first lady. No impression comes to mind. Nothing, nada, zippo. Weird, that."
Vicki Stein | Email | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 4:07 pm

Apparently, Stepford Wives need a lot of down time to recharge their batteries.
watertiger | 10.20.04 - 4:15 pm | #

No wonder Orson Scott Card supports Bush. After all, his character of Achilles in "Ender's shadow" and "Shadow of the Hegemon" is based entirely on Bush.
At least the opportunistic, completely amoral and homicidal maniac part is. (OK, Laura fits the homicidal maniac part best).
Ender | 10.20.04 - 4:15 pm | #

on CNN

Karen Hughes is now denying the Pat Robertson "no casualties" comments.
Spinoza

Good. I love it when they're having to defend.
Holden Caulfield | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 4:15 pm | #

"We should note that he had a brain aneurism during beast." That I did not know. It explains a lot, but I believe at best it just unlocked whatever self-censoring he did BEFORE the brain fart.

Still, I readily admit that his juvenile fiction was very entertaining for me as a young'un.
Cole the Younger | 10.20.04 - 4:16 pm | #

Jenny! HBD!!
jsg | 10.20.04 - 4:16 pm | #

Cole the Younger - Glad you're ok. They give you that emergency syringe?
Spinoza | 10.20.04 - 4:16 pm | #

That's an abbreviation they use on the internets.
jsg | 10.20.04 - 4:17 pm | #

I love it. Check out prime time on Pro 7 in Deutschland on Nov. 1st.

http://tinyurl.com/create.php

Hee,Hee,Hee.
sac666 | 10.20.04 - 4:17 pm | #

Karen Hughes is now denying the Pat Robertson "no casualties" comments.
Spinoza

er, isn't Pat on tape saying that? Just curious.
John | 10.20.04 - 4:17 pm | #

RATE THIS ARTICLE ON YAHOO!

Bush: No Iraq Casualties
james | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 4:18 pm | #

thanks, int argc. It certainly felt serious--I actually went blind for a few minutes (among other disconcerting symptoms).

Fortunately, the receptionist at work called 911 against my assurances that I was okay.

Now I get to find out if I'm gonna be gunshy about hiking in the future (epi pen or no). But at least my wife told me, "no more mowing the lawn for you." Those little bastards burrow into the ground around here and running over them is not pleasant.
Cole the Younger | 10.20.04 - 4:18 pm | #

I'll give Orson Scott Card a second chance when BC cartoonist Johnny Hart get's off his unsubstantiated, anti-intellectual high horse and 'stop using his celebrity status as a cartoonist to push his dogmatic pro-Bush agenda.'

"Cartoonist Johnny Hart, author and illustrator of the widely published newspaper cartoon "B.C.," has been raising eyebrows for years with his increasing use of the comics pages to promote his Christian faith.
Hart, who in 1999 told the Washington Post that Jews and Muslims who don't accept Jesus will burn in hell, this week issued a rambling statement complaining that "whenever I try to honor this man of men (Jesus) ... hackles go up." 4/14/2001

Hart is a fundamentalist who wrote his strip about cavemen as a slam against the theory of evolution.

MYOB'
.
MYOB | 10.20.04 - 4:19 pm | #

sac666 -

The link did not work.

er, isn't Pat on tape saying that? Just curious.
John

I imagine Mr. Hughes is denying Bush made the "no casualties" quip.

So, she must be calling Robertson a liar.
Holden Caulfield | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 4:19 pm | #

Wow, Judy Woofruff is leading Karen Hughes through all of the Talking Points.

And speaking of Talking Points, they played the Ashley ad that Josh Marshall at TPM writes of
Bayporter | 10.20.04 - 4:20 pm | #

thanks, spinoza. yeah, they gave me epinephrine, benadrine, and an iv drip with some steroid or other.

I'm feeling achy now, but much better (other than a strange desire to beat the home run record).
Cole the Younger | 10.20.04 - 4:20 pm | #

Ender,

I didn't think you ever really knew Achilles--Sister Carlotta kept you out of Battle School until after your departure for Command School. Maybe we should hear what Bean has to day?

Geeking aside, Bush is (although likewise a sociopath) as far from Achilles as I can imagine. Achilles was vastly more intelligent that Shrubya is, and had a history of succeeding against long odds (snatching defeat from the jaws of victory does not count, Mr. President). I don't think Bush is particularly amoral either--however, his incuriousity makes it very simple to use his rudimentary moral structure to manipulate him.
int argc | 10.20.04 - 4:20 pm | #

Karen Hughes is now denying the Pat Robertson "no casualties" comments.

...what Bush said was "no casual ties"... he meant Iraq will be an entirely black tie affair.
Falstaff | 10.20.04 - 4:21 pm | #

So now Karen Hughes is going on record to say Pat Robertson is a big fat liar? I am so loving this!
jeebs | 10.20.04 - 4:21 pm | #

Sorry. Try this, check the 20:15 listing.

http://tinyurl.com/6w4sc
sac666 | 10.20.04 - 4:22 pm | #

Heinlein wasn't so much a fascist as a far-right libertarian -- Moon is a Harsh Mistress isn't liberal at all, it's more of a Libertarian handbook -- all government bad, free market should rule all, all power to the strongest & smartest and anyone else (especially the poor and/or less fortunate) can die a useless death and who cares (Heinlein's attitude, not mine).

His writing went from functional in the early days (like Asimov, he was never a stylist) to almost incomprehensibly bad at the end -- his last few books were interchangeable incoherent plotless rants.

He may have been a nice guy to a few individuals but overall he was an asshole.
bj | 10.20.04 - 4:22 pm | #

buck -

spla-hff--wha--

lemme finish!!

don't confuse me with the facts!

[curls up into little ball]
r@d@r | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 4:22 pm | #

Going back to the thread for a second, I had a hard time with Pattern Recognition. I put it down after 150 pages, utterly baffled and numbed after trodding with Gibson through his latest lingual safari. Does it get better? I have it at home (autographed first edition, actually) and I want to know if it's worth the struggle.

Thanks.

Hate to be the one to tell you, but: no, not really.

The resolution, the whole reason for the "pattern recognition," turns out to be perfectly and totally, IMHO, lame. A wonderful set up, a lousy pay-off.

I don't think Gibson has ever improved on "Burning Chrome," myself. But then, who could?
Robert M. Jeffers | 10.20.04 - 4:22 pm | #

"Hart is a fundamentalist who wrote his strip about cavemen as a slam against the theory of evolution."

Maybe he should have stuck to book burning. His cartoons were never funny.
watertiger | 10.20.04 - 4:23 pm | #

As ignorant & incompetent as Condi is, I don't think her political stumping is going to do much for Bush's campaign. Add to that the fact that she is icier than Cheney. It doesn't surprise me that she & the Bushies would shamelessly politicize the NSC, but I don't see it as effective politicizing. Tweety & Fat Tim will slobber; no one else will.
Hoosiercat | 10.20.04 - 4:23 pm | #

For Jenny -- a hit from "The Birthday Dirge" (to the tune of "The Volga Boatman"). Ahem:

Happy Birthday! [whomp]
Happy Birthday! [whomp]
Now you've lived another year,
Now you know that death is near,
They say that cancer's caused by beer,
Happy Birthday! [whomp]
Happy Birthday! [whomp]
Children die in dark despair,
One by one you're losing hair,
Carrot Top's still on the air,
Happy Birthday! [whomp]
Happy Birthday! [whomp]

Hugs, kiddo!
filkertom | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 4:24 pm | #

as long as it's free it's not whoring.
art linkletter

I think I'm missing some history here, cuz this sounds like a dirty joke...

oh and Robertson is on Video saying it ... I'm looking for it now...
sgo | 10.20.04 - 4:24 pm | #

So, she must be calling Robertson a liar.

or she's doing her patented "bravado or mental illness?" mind control act, as previously described by Little Mr. Bow Tie.

Only now she's doing it to everyone who saw Robertson say it on the air.
jeebs | 10.20.04 - 4:24 pm | #

MYOB,

Oh, that SOB Hart has been on my list for a long time. Every once in a while I get worked up enough to fire off a LttE about one of his ignorant strips.

You mention his anti-intellectualism. To me, this is a point that CANNOT be hit enough. Anti-intellectualism is the heart of the Republican efforts and has been for quite some time--perhaps as far back as Agnew and his "ivory-tower liberals." As an intellectual type, I suppose I'm hardly impartial, but I consider it one of the most insulting tactics possible.
int argc | 10.20.04 - 4:25 pm | #

Heinlein wasn't so much a fascist as a far-right libertarian

And a sexist.
Hecate | 10.20.04 - 4:25 pm | #

As Ron Jr. himself as noted, he is an avowed atheist, and as such, could probably not be elected as dogcatcher in this country any time soon.
jeebs | 10.20.04 - 4:26 pm | #

hey everybody, I love this blog but why not blog off and go to moveon.org and make some calls to voters in swing states? this is where the battle is - not online praching to the converted...it's fun. you'll be inspired.
ladymacbeth | 10.20.04 - 4:26 pm | #

Hart is a fundamentalist who wrote his strip about cavemen as a slam against the theory of evolution.

not to mention a slam against feminism.

it's been decades since any of hart's strips were worth reading.
theodoric. | 10.20.04 - 4:27 pm | #

OT, related to Condi stumping:

Is it just me, or is the administration telegraphing that their October surprise isn't going to be a terror attack? How can they possibly benefit from a terror attack when the NSA is out on the campaign trail instead of actually, you know, doing her job?
int argc | 10.20.04 - 4:27 pm | #

But wait a minute. Heinlein can't be that bad. After all he went to the Naval Academy. And so did Poindexter....oh , ..never mind...
bebe rebozo | 10.20.04 - 4:27 pm | #

His writing went from functional in the early days (like Asimov, he was never a stylist) to almost incomprehensibly bad at the end -- his last few books were interchangeable incoherent plotless rants.

If The Number of the Beast and Friday were any indication, also full of lots of almost soft-core porn.

A real sex obsession. That's my main memory of both of those books.

That, and the Ayn Rand type rants. Made me long for Waldo.
Robert M. Jeffers | 10.20.04 - 4:27 pm | #

Isn't anyone gonna wish me a happy birthday?
*
Jenny from the Blog

I hate to tell you this, dear, but your share a birthday with Little Lulu.
Holden Caulfield | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 4:28 pm | #

Jeebs --

Too bad, a proud outfront atheist would be breath of fresh air in this polluted country.
bj | 10.20.04 - 4:28 pm | #

Y'all know who writes juvie SF very similar to Heinlein's early stuff, but (IMHO) emminently better plotted? Steven Gould. Don't know much about the man, but Wild Side and Jumper brought back that feeling from long ago when I would read Heinlein cover to cover in my tree house out back during those loonnngggggg summer breaks.
Cole the Younger | 10.20.04 - 4:28 pm | #

Oh, sorry, Jenny --

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
bj | 10.20.04 - 4:29 pm | #

Does anyone know how many economists lost their virginity to Ayn Rand? There's a rumor she had a Laffler curve that allowed trickle down.
-Milton Friedman
bebe rebozo | 10.20.04 - 4:30 pm | #

My first experience with a double-post.

I burn with shame.
bj | 10.20.04 - 4:30 pm | #

While I mainly agree with the views of Orson Scott Card's fiction, I have to say he has written a fabulous book for writers called 'Characters and Viewpoints'. If you've ever had a writing instructor or friend try to explain 'limited third person POV' in vain, this book is very useful. He's also great on the process of developing your fictional characters, something MANY professional writers would benefit from. (Just finished a best-seller inhabited by some of the shallowest excuses for human beings I've ever met, so I'm kind of grumpy about that...)
Arachnae | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 4:30 pm | #

I know that Philalethes is not part of team P.H.A.T., I know that.
thought

Well, I am in spirit, at least! I love First Draft, and I don't read it nearly as often as I should.

My own thing is geared mostly towards me...I learn/remember things better when I write about them, and lately I've been feeling totally overwhelmed. Plus, it's nice to have be putting all kinds of info into one place...kind of like a filing cabinet.

I'd intended never to blogwhore, but sometimes I'm just too goddamn lazy to type out the link instead of saying "click below."

But yeah, Attaturk's blogwhoring is a highlight around here...it's so magnificent that it doesn't count. Plus it always pays off for the reader to click his links.
Philalethes | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 4:31 pm | #

Gould's novel Blind Waves gives me the idea he is at least anti-corporate, if not progressive, in his ideological makeup.
Cole the Younger | 10.20.04 - 4:31 pm | #

Glad Gibson is on the side of the good. Anyone know Stephenson's politics? I like his prose, but he does seem to lean libertarian in his writings.

Where and when did Asimove comment on Heinlein. I want to know!
Anonymous | 10.20.04 - 4:31 pm | #

Oh, Card can write, he's just a dogmatic downer.
bj | 10.20.04 - 4:32 pm | #

dammit, I wasn't using my usual computer,

that was me:
Glad Gibson is on the side of the good. Anyone know Stephenson's politics? I like his prose, but he does seem to lean libertarian in his writings.

Where and when did Asimove comment on Heinlein. I want to know!

for the record
scoopernicus | 10.20.04 - 4:32 pm | #

Though Heinlein has my favorite quote:

The supreme irony of life is that hardly anyone gets out of it alive
David (Austin Tx) | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 4:33 pm | #

I didn't mean to imply that Asimov commented on Heinlein. That was my comparison.
bj | 10.20.04 - 4:33 pm | #

it's been decades since any of hart's strips were worth reading.
theodoric. | Email | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 4:27 pm

I'm a comic strip addict. Love 'em. I've got collections of Segar's Thimble Theater, some of the original Dick Tracy and Pogo and Li'l Abner and The Spirit and loads more. I even have a fondness for Nancy & Sluggo.

Only two B.C. strips have ever made me laugh. The only two that even stand out at all in my memory.

"Clams got legs!"

"Beware of the TRUND"
filkertom | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 4:35 pm | #

Oops--dammit, I didn't mean Gould's Blind Waves (which I haven't read). I was thinking of Stephenson's Zodiac. My apologies. Still don't know anything about Gould's philosophies, though he's a Texan.

Hecate--yep. Heinlein was the model for misogyny--made his female characters yammer endlessly about how devious and ultimately stuped "other" women were while simultaneously taking a submissive role to the obviously superior male characters.
Cole the Younger | 10.20.04 - 4:36 pm | #

Filkertom --

Original Walt Kelly artwork????

I am soooo jealous.
bj | 10.20.04 - 4:36 pm | #

Bruce Sterling too. Hey, they're smart guys - what do you expect?
swifferBoat | 10.20.04 - 4:37 pm | #

filkertom, bo, jsg and everyone else!

Thanks for sharing my b-day with me... my Eschaton family. Now the sun just came out at the beach, first time in 4 days, and hey, I think I'm falling in love too... I'm going out to enjoy my day.

KERRY IN A F***ING TSUNAMI!
*
Jenny from the Blog | 10.20.04 - 4:37 pm | #

The only real humor I've ever seen in Hart strips is physical comedy--which is usually done better in more capable strips--and which tends to be of the mean-spirited variety. Hart is anti-intellectual, anti-evolution, misogynistic, the list goes on and on. I wouldn't piss down his throat if his stomach were on fire.
int argc | 10.20.04 - 4:38 pm | #

r@d@r -- easy mistake to make. I agree that Stephenson is too enamored of his tech characters.
buck | 10.20.04 - 4:38 pm | #

lady macbeth,

Hear ya, sister, but I'm saving myself for my two hour block at K/E headquarters tonight. Thanks for the inspiration, though, and keep up the good work.
Vicki Stein | 10.20.04 - 4:38 pm | #

Cool, this is a SF discussion now?

i thought "Number of the Beast" waswritten after Heinlein's stroke/aneurysm, but I could be wrong. I was always iffy about him; didn't know or care much abt his philosophy until much later.

"Beast", i thought was odd; it started out as rollicking good, slam-bang space opera of the sort that can be great fun to read, then it sort of crashed and burned in a pile of almost incomprehensible babble.

Wait-that's a good argument for RAH having had his blowout while writing it....
cory | 10.20.04 - 4:38 pm | #

I required pre-service teachers in english and science to read Gibson & Sterling's "The Difference Engine"... It is still one of my favorite Alt.Univ-style books.
Konopelli | 10.20.04 - 4:39 pm | #

Hey Jenny - HBday (I thought it was yesterday May you receive much chocolate and a Kerry victory as a late Bday present.

Int argc - I have been unable to enjoy Heinlein with the exception of one book - Star Beast. It was for younger audiences, and was pretty much a silly romp. (Of course, I could be misremembering, but I went from that to Stranger and was painfully disappointed.)

Spinoza - They're starting early to make sure that Spitzer can't run for anything big. Personally, I think Spitzer is great. He actually goes after people/corporations that need to be gone after. Hmm. Maybe that's why they're badmouthing him? Hit too many of their little friends?
shoggoff | 10.20.04 - 4:40 pm | #

I thought "The Difference Engine" had a great premise but kind of went nowhere.
bj | 10.20.04 - 4:40 pm | #

Filkertom --

Original Walt Kelly artwork????

I am soooo jealous.

Filkertom? Really?

Jealousy doesn't begin to say it.

The best I can claim is an original drawing from the hand of Sam Hurt. And only a few poeple of a certain age from Austin will even know what that means.
Robert M. Jeffers | 10.20.04 - 4:40 pm | #

yeah, we hijacked it into a sci-fi discussion based on Gibson's ouevre.

BTW, since I've spent more time talking about Card & Heinlen than Gibson:

1. Neuromancer
2. Count Zero
3. Burning Chrome
4. All Tomorrow's Parties
5. Pattern Recognition
6. Mona Lisa Overdrive
7. Virtual Light
8. Idoru

Just MHO of course.
int argc | 10.20.04 - 4:41 pm | #

Holden -

Well holy shit. My head just exploded. My evil twin is Michelle Malkin? Such is the way of the world...

oh, thanks, bj!
*
Jenny from the Blog | 10.20.04 - 4:41 pm | #

oooh, JftB !

Sounds great! Have a great birthday! Congratulations on falling in love ~ it's a beautiful thing! Maybe I'll join you in those ranks again someday (crosses fingers)!

Enjoy the beach, and many blessings for a wonderful year.
Vicki Stein | 10.20.04 - 4:41 pm | #

Karen Hughes is now denying the Pat Robertson "no casualties" comments.

Media question of the afternoon:

Why is George W. Bush's spokesperson calling one of Bush's biggest supporters, Pat Robertson, a liar?
Seraphiel | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 4:41 pm | #

Robertson and Falwell are just church hustlers, always dangling the vision of no more abortion and a Christian nation in front of their brainwashed followers. But they know that if any of this ever came to pass, the money well would dry up and they would no longer be able to get all that attention they crave.
sekmet | 10.20.04 - 4:41 pm | #

But William Gibson is a Canadian.

No, he's American. Just married a Canadian and lives in BC.
swifferBoat | 10.20.04 - 4:42 pm | #

Seraphiel --

Would that any of those eunuchs and/or whores had the nerve to ask!
bj | 10.20.04 - 4:43 pm | #

Michelle Malkin birthday? She was not born, she was spawned.
bebe rebozo | 10.20.04 - 4:43 pm | #

Note that George R.R. Martin (writer of one of the best fantasy series in the last decade) has a "Vote K/E" on his webpage:

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/
Urinated State of America | 10.20.04 - 4:44 pm | #

Between George W Bush and Pat Robertson, I think it's probable they are both lying. If either one was telling the truth... now that's a story!
Falstaff | 10.20.04 - 4:44 pm | #

Dad-gum, jenny!

Birthday?

Falling in love?

At the beach?

Sheeee-it...En-freakin-JOY!!!
Konopelli | 10.20.04 - 4:44 pm | #

Even Johnny Hart can't be as totally obnoxious as he was when I was a kid. One of the characters, who I don't know if she has a name now, used to be called the "Fat Broad." Even as a kid I thought that was hugely rude.

Now that's gone and instead we get Hart's fundamentalist rantings about politics, society and Jews. Especially Jews. I'd almost take the Fat Broad back.
Deana Holmes | 10.20.04 - 4:45 pm | #

I am so sorry, guys. I spoke inaccurately. No, I've got some very early collections of a lot of the original strips I mentioned, but, no, no original art. (I have got a few oddball sketches around, but, God, if I had any Kelly it'd be framed in gold next to my computer.)

And, RMJ -- I know exactly who Sam Hurt is. Eenie Meenie Minee Tweed.
filkertom | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 4:45 pm | #

I appreciate people saying that my blogwhoring is OK.

It helps raise my self-esteem to a simple case of "discomfort" over "self-loathing". Ah, the fresh air of mild regret...

On a more serious blogwhore, Ted Kennedy, an outspoken opponent of the Iraq War did something today that Dear Leader ("there won't be casualties") is too chicken to do. Attend the funeral of a dead soldier!

Ted Kennedy, whatever his faults, is a MAN, Bush and his minions are cowards.
attaturk | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 4:46 pm | #

Deana,

Oh no, she's still called that. AND there's the fundamentalist ranting about politics, society and Jews. If a paper published a comic strip that far left, they'd be roundly pilloried.
int argc | 10.20.04 - 4:46 pm | #

I always found Brin's writing to offer old ideas in a refreshing new light. I especially like his Uplift War novels and the concepts of uplifting species to sapiency, along with a quasi-spiritual belief in a mysterious Creator Race that started it all.

His book set in that universe but otherwise totally unrelated, called Glory Season is a neatly written "what if" regarding a female dominated society.

Of course he has the obligatory post-apocalyptic Postman and the techno-magical Practice Effect, as well.
Cole the Younger | 10.20.04 - 4:46 pm | #

Speaking of techies and politics, see this essay:

Good Bad Attitude

about the rebelious streak in most hackers.
cheney_usa | 10.20.04 - 4:47 pm | #

Cole,

not ALL post-apocalyptic sci-fi is bad. it's been a number of years now, but I remember A Canticle for Leibowitz having a profound impact on me as a teenager, for example.
int argc | 10.20.04 - 4:48 pm | #

Philalethes, ONE OF US! ONE OF US!

Hee.

Happy B-day, Jenny. Your present will arrive Nov. 2. Holden has promised to gift-wrap it for you, since he's good with all that frilly shit.

A.
Athenae | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 4:48 pm | #

Falstaff--that presents a conundrum. If they both lie, and each makes a statement that directly contradicts the other, .... well, you see my point. It's a puzzle more challenging than the old "one always lies and one always tells the truth" bit.
Cole the Younger | 10.20.04 - 4:49 pm | #

But William Gibson is a Canadian.
No, he's American. Just married a Canadian and lives in BC. - SwifferBoat
Hey, I've never seen him in Hart's strip. Is he in the back of the cave?
bo | 10.20.04 - 4:49 pm | #

my views on blogwhoring:

whore 'em if you got 'em. but you should post without blogwhoring too, just so people have some idea who you are, and think you may be worth checking out. i rarely click on any links from anyone i don't sort of "know" through comments. i don't really even see it as etiquette, i just think the blogwhore has a better chance at a response that way. think of it as stiletto heels.

my views on heinlein:

he sucks.

who should be kerry's press secretary?:

jim hightower.
Olaf glad and big | 10.20.04 - 4:50 pm | #

And, RMJ -- I know exactly who Sam Hurt is. Eenie Meenie Minee Tweed.

Oh, I can tell my teeny story.

I have, so far as I know, a complete collection of Hurt's books, going back to...well, hell, don't have 'em out right now. Picked 'em up in Austin over the years, always signed by Hurt, but never from his hand.

He had a strip in the Statesman for a little while. A friend and I were at a theater, waiting for the movie to start, discussing that day's strip, and laughing about it. A guy in front of me stuck a piece of paper at me and said "I heard what you were saying. Thanks for the compliments," or some such. I was kind of offended at his eavesdropping, but my wife recognized him.

Sure enough, it was Sam. And he had penned a sketch of the panel from the strip we were laughing about.

It hangs on my wall, now, with the theater tickets. Never be worth much except a memento, but even my daughter loves his books.....
Robert M. Jeffers | 10.20.04 - 4:50 pm | #

OT- at yahoo-but a what are the odds?

U.S. Examines Al-Zarqawi Ties to Bin Laden

By KATHERINE PFLEGER SHRADER, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - U.S. officials are taking a sober view of a recent pledge of loyalty to Osama bin Laden from Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the most wanted terror leader in Iraq.
Anonymous | 10.20.04 - 4:50 pm | #

int argc-- I guess that shows you how often I read his comic strip (which is to say, not very often). I do try to check in around the major Christian religious holidays to see how truly obnoxious he can be.
Deana Holmes | 10.20.04 - 4:50 pm | #

I'm blanking on the title but a recent Brin (one of my favorite SF writers) is a mock-hardboiled-private eye kind of thing set in a future where people can make golem-type clones of themselves as easy as turning on the microwave.

He takes this bizarre and almost unworkable premise and demonstrates that, no matter how weird the world, people are still people and makes the whole damn thing almost believable.

And "The Uplift War" is one of my favorite books; my copy is in tatters from rereading.

Oh, yeah, weren't we talking about politics?....
bj | 10.20.04 - 4:50 pm | #

When President Kerry appoints a Press Secretary, who do you think it will be?

Joe Lockhart. Couldn't do better. Except maybe Jon Stewart, who would be funnier but less knowledgable and more merciful to the press whores.
swifferBoat | 10.20.04 - 4:51 pm | #

Cole, int argc -- my favorite post-Apocalypse novel is Lucifer's Hammer. Sterling Lanier's Hiero's Journey and The Unforsaken Hiero are pretty cool too. If only he'd finish the series....
filkertom | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 4:51 pm | #

I guess that shows you how often I read his comic strip (which is to say, not very often).

I, too, consider this the best policy. My circulatory system is relatively young (25, with a MOE of 5 years) but I figure I can do without the blood pressure trouble.
int argc | 10.20.04 - 4:52 pm | #

in argc--I don't mean to imply the genre is inherently flawed (although these days it seems too possible to contemplate as entertainment). I'm a sucker for the film genre at least--A Boy and His Dog. Need I say more?

Okay, how about the first Mad Max movie?
Cole the Younger | 10.20.04 - 4:52 pm | #

Every time sci fi comes up I'm hoping someone besides me will have read Patricia Anthony. She is wonderful and will probably cross over out of the genre. I can't recommend "The Happy Policeman" and especially "God's Fire" enough. Her book about WWI - "Flanders" is also just incredibly well written.

The other writer I never see mentioned is Octavia Butler. Her trilogy - "Lilith's Brood" is phenomenal.
Tena | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 4:53 pm | #

RMJ -- now that is a cool story. Thanks!
filkertom | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 4:54 pm | #

"no impression of her [laura bush] comes to mind. zip. nada."-vicki stein

i literally cannot picture laura bush in my mind. i can recognize her in photos, but i can't picture her in my mind. she is a nonentity.
Olaf glad and big | 10.20.04 - 4:55 pm | #

I've picked up and put down several of Lanier's books at Ed McKay's over the years. Perhaps I should read one? Wish I had more time these days.
Cole the Younger | 10.20.04 - 4:55 pm | #

I've heard much about Octavia Butler, but never read anything by her.

To continue the Jesuits+Sci-Fi theme of my Canticle name-check, what do people here think of The Sparrow?
int argc | 10.20.04 - 4:56 pm | #

Jeffers, Eyebeam?
cheney_usa | 10.20.04 - 4:56 pm | #

Falstaff--that presents a conundrum.

...It would seem so, but these guys are good.

Bush is a Christian because he says so, and Christians never lie.
Falstaff | 10.20.04 - 4:56 pm | #

Octavia Butler is good, even Orson thinks so.
Cole the Younger | 10.20.04 - 4:56 pm | #

happy birthday Jenny-

It also just happens to be mine and mrs. jeebs' 15th lesbo commitment anniversary.

Many happy returns and I'm trying as best as I can to forget Michelle Malkin is connected to this in any way.....
jeebs | 10.20.04 - 4:56 pm | #

Watching the playoffs, Fox just played a ONE MINUTE spot of Bush. It was cloaked in 'You Decide 04' format and brought to you by the "News Corporation". My god. Did anyone get the full color brochure from the Swift Boat liars today?
Anonymous | 10.20.04 - 4:56 pm | #

I think Kerry should ask Bill Clinton to be his press secretary just to heavily irritate the wingnuts.
Spinoza | 10.20.04 - 4:57 pm | #

Falstaff--yes, they are logical paragons.
Cole the Younger | 10.20.04 - 4:57 pm | #

I thought PhilipJose Farmer was a really good, really crazy writer. The Tarzan revision books (names elude me) were fun, funny, and spectacularly well imagined. He also recreated Doc Savage adventures as good as the original. He wrote Riverworld, too,
Konopelli | 10.20.04 - 4:57 pm | #

or should that be "logic paragons"? I'm obviously not a paragon of grammar.
Cole the Younger | 10.20.04 - 4:57 pm | #

Cole the younger:

Hey at least you get out of the yardwork.

Anaphylactic shock is no fun, I am allergic to nuts and have been there man. Those epi-pens are a lot of fun too.

Glad you're ok.
krsaz | 10.20.04 - 4:57 pm | #

I'm actually very surpised that Gibson is supporting Kerry. I've read every one of his books, and I pegged him as a Naderite.

But in any case, despite having read all of his books, I don't particularly like any one of them. The general ideas that form their backdrops are usually more interesting than the books themselves. And they all, without fail, fall apart two-thirds of the way through. Pattern Recognition was no exception.

THEY CALL ME PASTABAGEL
Pastabagel | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 4:57 pm | #

A friend just sent me the current Rolling Stone Article featuring John Kerry. Really good interview. Here's a small excerpt:

Why do you think you'd be a good president?

Because I'm a good executive, I'm a good leader, and I know what we have to do. I'm tough, I'm strong, I'm decisive. I know exactly what this country needs to do to move forward. All my life I've never shied away from standing up and telling people what I think, and what I think is true -- and I've taken the consequences of it. I'm even hearing about what I said in 1971.
Vicki Stein | 10.20.04 - 4:58 pm | #

(Lansing-AP, October 20, 2004, 7:29 a.m.) Michigan voters who cast ballots in the wrong polling precinct but are in the right city, township or village on Nov. 2 must have their votes for president and Congress counted, a federal judge ruled Tuesday.

U.S. District Judge David Lawson nullified the state's decision to not count provisional ballots unless voters show up in the correct precinct despite objections from Republican Secretary of State Terri Lynn Land and the U.S. Justice Department.

Provisional, or backup, ballots are used when voters say they are properly registered but their names are not on the registration rolls.

"The public interest is served when citizens can look with confidence at an election process that insures that all votes cast by qualified voters are counted," Lawson wrote in his order
Democrats, the NAACP and voter-rights groups sued Land and state Bureau of Elections Director Chris Thomas last month. They said Thomas's instructions to 1,500 local election clerks to not count provisional ballots cast in the wrong precinct violated federal law and would disenfranchise thousands of voters.

A win for Michigan voters.
meme | 10.20.04 - 4:58 pm | #

RMJ-you're in Austin?
I didn't realize.
I have fond memories of Eyebeam, also of Berke Brethed's early stuff in the Texan.
jeebs | 10.20.04 - 4:58 pm | #

Olaf,

Laura left no impression on me until I saw her & Chicken Ceasar in the Sept(?) Larry King interview in LA. I had an immediate and visceral reaction to her gaze and frozen demi-smile. Ever since, to me, she's been Queen of the Lizard People.
bo | 10.20.04 - 4:59 pm | #

OT:

Freudian Slip?

Biden criticized the administration's prescription drug policies and their impact on consumers. "He is brain dead," Biden said of the president. His comment was greeted with loud applause at the UAW Local 435 union hall in Cranston Heights but quickly drew the ire of Delaware Republicans.

"Sen. Biden should be ashamed of his below-the-belt rhetoric and personal attacks on the president," said David Crossan, executive director of the state's Republican Party. "Challenging policies is one thing, but calling someone 'brain dead' crosses the line."
wtfwjd? | 10.20.04 - 4:59 pm | #

Yeah, I used to read a lot of Philip Farmer's stuff as a kid, too. Had a retro-hippie girlfriend once who tracked down his home phone and called him up impulsively. He chatted with her for nearly five hours. I thought that was pretty cool, since he was sorta bigtime then writing screenplays and such.
Cole the Younger | 10.20.04 - 5:00 pm | #

When President Kerry appoints a Press Secretary, who do you think it will be?

I have to agree with cs. Ron Reagan Jr would be great.
(it's better if you visualize a press conference)
And now, here comes Press Secretary Ronald Reagan, to introduce President John Kerry.
I can't think of anything that would sound better.
kenga | 10.20.04 - 5:00 pm | #

I've read every one of his books

Your literacy is news to me, LinguiniDonut. I suppose the easy thing is to point out that you're not intelligent enough to stay with Gibson once he hits his stride. So I guess I'll stick with that.
int argc | 10.20.04 - 5:00 pm | #

Big Dog back in the fight!!!
Dear Kingfish,

With some people already casting their ballots, the election of 2004 is now underway, and nothing less than the future of our country is at stake. This is the moment for every Democrat to look in the mirror and ask: "What more can I do to help?"
Thanks to the extraordinary generosity of a special group of Democratic donors, every dollar you donate today, to the kickoff of our Countdown to Victory Matching Fund, will be matched, doubling the impact of your Countdown to Victory donation.
https://www.democrats.org/support...port/ kerry.html
With so much on the line, and with so little time remaining, I couldn't let a critical moment like this pass without personally calling on you to act before it is too late. I know how hard you're working, how much you've already given of yourself. But we've got to dig even deeper between now and November 2.
These closing days of the campaign are exciting, no doubt about it. But with so much riding on the outcome of this election, we need to make sure our energy translates into effective action. Every one of us has a chance to play a vital role in deciding who wins.
So please donate now and double the impact of your contribution.
https://www.democrats.org/support...port/ kerry.html
We must leave no stone unturned between now and the moment the last poll closes on November 2. The Republicans are pouring millions of dollars into baseless attacks against John Kerry and the Democrats because they know that's the only way they can win. Don't let them get away with it.
John Kerry, John Edwards, and other Democrats locked in tough races are pulling out all the stops. They're driving toward victory -- but they need your help. We've got two weeks to go and not a minute to waste. Your immediate contribution can help fund final media buys, voter contact, and GOTV operations. These are the efforts that are going to win this election, and we cannot do it without your support.
Let's go for it. America's future is on the ballot this year. Let's use these final days of the campaign to win the victory that is within our grasp, and secure the kind of future we want for our children. I'm counting on you.
Sincerely,
Bill Clinton
Kingfish | 10.20.04 - 5:00 pm | #

If you like sci-fi-fantasy, read "The Project for a New American Century".
cheney_usa | 10.20.04 - 5:00 pm | #

I like to read several books at a time, mostly because I keep them in different places. Pattern Recognition is one. I can appreciate what he is trying to do, but it is hard to get into. Quicksilver (Stepehenson) is much easier going down. Against All Enemies (Clark) reads like an old Tom Clancy book so far. The new Hunter S. Tompson is good, but hard to carry around since his naked ass graces the back cover.

I've read and enjoyed OSCard, but his stories start to be the same. He and his characters seem lost in their messiah complex.
John Gillnitz | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 5:02 pm | #

cheney_usa,

excellent recommendation. truly the authors are masters of dystopia, the like of which we've not seen since Orwell himself.
int argc | 10.20.04 - 5:02 pm | #

int argc,

Now you've done it, you've invoked the ghost of "He who must not be discussed on the internet".

"a Boy and His Dog"? read the story some time

or "I Have no Mouth and I Must Scream"

or "Beast that Shouted Love at the Heart of the World"

or my personal favorite,*

"Repent Harlequin said the Ticktockman"

*(personal geek note,in college I even storyboarded an animated movie based on RHstTtm)
thought | 10.20.04 - 5:02 pm | #

Happy Birthday Jenny!
Stay out of the rain today.
Chauncy Gardner | 10.20.04 - 5:02 pm | #

Actually, Heinlein said on several occasions that his personal politics and philosophy were not necessarily discernible from either his juvenile or adult fiction. More on point was his intention to challenge conventional thinking throughout his body of work. A flawed stylist, yes, but it probably isn't fair to label him a crypto-fascist/mysoginist or even a Randite since he always demonstrated a high reliance on empiricism. One might even believe that his final philosophic jest was aimed specifically at the burgeoning Libertarian crowd: how else do you account for the lovely self fulfilling plot device of "Rational Solipsism?"
malatesta | 10.20.04 - 5:02 pm | #

"He is brain dead," Biden said of the president. His comment was greeted with loud applause at the UAW Local 435 union hall in Cranston Heights but quickly drew the ire of Delaware Republicans.
"Sen. Biden should be ashamed of his below-the-belt rhetoric and

wtfwjd-If I read the anatomy here corrrectly, Bush has his(dead) brain up his ass.
Spinoza | 10.20.04 - 5:03 pm | #

thanks krsaz. I was thinking today that I'd rather have severe food allergies than wasp/bee venom. At least I can (often) control what ends up in my mouth.

But then I figured I'd probably be allergic to something I can't live without, such as olive oil, and it would become a LIVING HELL.

(nuts would bother me, too)
Cole the Younger | 10.20.04 - 5:03 pm | #

Spinoza - I like it. It would drive the wingnuts into a frenzy.
shoggoff | 10.20.04 - 5:03 pm | #

Gibson has nothing on John Brunner, and Heinlein sux like an Electrolux.
BlakNo1 | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 5:03 pm | #

George R.R. Martin supports K/E:

Go, homie! He was born and raised in my hometown; we went to the same grade school, though about 8 years apart. He is one of the greats, IMHO.

Before i knew where he was from, i read a post-apocalyptic story of his, For a Single Yesterday. In it he describes a town that was near a major city that got hit. I remember thinking that it REALLY sounded a lot like my neighborhood. It was years and an Internet later that i learned that it WAS my neighborhood. And his. THAT is what i call an ability to evoke.
cory | 10.20.04 - 5:03 pm | #

Konopelli -- an Ace double novel, Lord of the Trees (the Tarzan pstiche) and The Mad Goblin (the Doc Savage one). Not to mention his biographies of 'em, Tarzan Alive! and Doc Savage: His Apocalyptic Life.

And Riverworld didn't work for me after the first two books... but man those first two were great! There's a constant threat of To Your Scattered Bodies Go being done as a movie or TV miniseries, and all I want is for it to be done right. First step: Jude Law or Paul Bettany as Sir Richard Burton, and Kiera Knightley or Miranda Otto as Alice.
filkertom | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 5:03 pm | #

Hey thought--you an ellison fan, then?
Cole the Younger | 10.20.04 - 5:04 pm | #

Anaphylactic shock is no fun, I am allergic to nuts - krsaz.

God in heaven, how have you made it through the last 4 years with Bush, Ashcroft, Wolfowitz, Feith, Runmsfeld, Robertson, Falwell,..... ohh, the edible kind of nuts.
bo | 10.20.04 - 5:04 pm | #

filkertom
I'm glad to hear you are a cartoon strip addict. One of my best friends was also an addict, but his favorite was the Milt Caniff 'Steve Canyon', and his later 'Steve Canyon & Mike Nomad' series, that was written and made out of Toledo, Ohio. Toledo is considered by some older cartoonists as one of the historical homes of newspaper cartoonist work.
In case you didn't know, Milt Caniff was the creator of 'Terry and the Pirates' during the '30s and '40s.

It's great to hear of someone out there who loves those old comics as much as I did during my childhood.

Thank you for bringing back the memory.

MYOB'
.
MYOB | 10.20.04 - 5:04 pm | #

Here's the Rolling Stone link, if you're interested:

Vicki Stein | 10.20.04 - 5:04 pm | #

The stealing of Democratic Yard Signs is going on nation wide.

http://www.reuters.com/ newsArtic...storyID=6556866
Kingfish | 10.20.04 - 5:04 pm | #

"I have no mouth" hit some primal nerve in me. Read it once, but I still have images invoked from it that float to my conscious mind from time to time.
Cole the Younger | 10.20.04 - 5:05 pm | #

To continue the Jesuits+Sci-Fi theme of my Canticle name-check, what do people here think of The Sparrow?

That was one of the most amazing books I've ever read. Along with "Walking to Mercury" by Starhawk.
Hecate | 10.20.04 - 5:05 pm | #

Philalethes, ONE OF US! ONE OF US!

Gooble gobble!

Or maybe, for bloggers, that should be Google goggle!
Philalethes | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 5:05 pm | #

http://tinyurl.com/6y2ub
Vicki Stein | 10.20.04 - 5:05 pm | #

godammit! EVOKED EVOKED EVOKED.

I need a rest.
Cole the Younger | 10.20.04 - 5:05 pm | #

The double post was for emphasis.
Philalethes | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 5:06 pm | #

The popular country star is scheduled to sing on a Caribbean cruise Jan. 29 through Feb. 2 sponsored by a company called Olivia, which, according to its web site, is “dedicated to providing high quality, safe vacations for lesbian travelers.”

How very offensive of them to use the "L" word to refer to their customers!

Chris Matthews would be shocked and appalled. This is really going to hurt them!
wtfwjd? | 10.20.04 - 5:06 pm | #

Jenny from the Blog, Happy birthday!

Cole the Younger, glad you're okay. Geez.

Karen Hughes is lying again? What will Tucker say? (Lying about Pat Robertson's statement? That'll go over well with the sheeple, I imagine.)
pie | 10.20.04 - 5:06 pm | #

Anaphylactic shock is no fun, I am allergic to nuts - krsaz.

God in heaven, how have you made it through the last 4 years with Bush, Ashcroft, Wolfowitz, Feith, Runmsfeld, Robertson, Falwell,..... ohh, the edible kind of nuts.
bo

Ha! That was funny! No peanut butter for you, huh, krsaz?
Vicki Stein | 10.20.04 - 5:06 pm | #

There's a constant threat of To Your Scattered Bodies Go being done as a movie or TV miniseries

The only thing worse than this is the rumor about an Ender's Game movie. I mean seriously, how could you do the book justice?
int argc | 10.20.04 - 5:06 pm | #

Hey pastie--Children don't appreciate Mozart much, either, so don't feel odd.
Cole the Younger | 10.20.04 - 5:07 pm | #

Bush's cousins are shrill.

bushrelativesforkerry.com/
wtfwjd? | 10.20.04 - 5:07 pm | #

dammit, the invoker was Cole the Younger.

My apologies, I seem to have
inadvertently given up caffeine
and have apparently not informed
my own cerebellum.
thought | 10.20.04 - 5:07 pm | #

Perhaps i was a bit premature in my judgement of Heinlein. I do know that my first edition copy of 'Stranger in a Strange Land' is the epitomy of everything the right hated about the left during the 60's era of anti-war movements.
It is hard to consider him anything more than fascinated with fascism when he rights something like Stranger' when one of the characters is a licenced witness whose claim to objectivity is accepted by any court in the land. The concept was incredible, and I loved it for it's innocence. Such a concept today would be too good and too easily corrupted by the likes of the Leo Strauss rightwingers.

As for Johnny Hart. All anyone has to do is take a look over the last month or so to see he is clearly attacking Kerry.

MYOB'
.
MYOB | 10.20.04 - 5:08 pm | #

OT: Are you as confused as I of the so called "Bush Surge" after the debate???

Check this out from Kos and pass it on:

http://tinyurl.com/45wtc
Yoshimi | Homepage | 10.20.04 - 5:08 pm | #

"I Have No Mouth & I Must Scream" is one of the most haunting & depressing stories I have ever read.

There is a DAW series of books now being reprinted, Golden Age Best Short Stories of the Year from 1939-1963, one volume per year, originally edited by Asimov & Martin Greenburg; they originally came out 2-3 a year from about 1979 to the late 80s or early 90s; great because they put the classic SF stories of each year in context, both of the times and of each other; having these stories rub up against each other makes for some wonderful juxtapositions. The originals are long out of print (some of mine are falling apart) but like I said, I see they are starting to be reprinted; seek them out -- you won't be disappointed. (Sorry I don't know the exact title or the pub. company -- but I'm at work, all this is from my aging & faulty memory!)
bj | 10.20.04 - 5:08 pm | #