I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
FRIST
Or the new elementary school that opened up that day.
Completely OT, but I've just gotta say ...
The infamous William S. Burroughs once did a piece he called "Words of Advice for Young People." I've been re-reading it, and it strikes me that several of his "words" apply to the current Administration.
"If you're doing business with a religious son of a bitch, get it in writing; his word isn't worth shit, not with the good Lord telling him how to fuck you on the deal."
"Avoid fuck-ups. Fools, I call them. You all know the type -- no matter how good it sounds, everything they have anything to do with turns into a disaster. Trouble for themselves and everyone connected with them. A fool is bad news, and it rubs off -- don't let it rub off on you."
"Above all, avoid confirmed criminals. They are a special malignant strain of fool."
I think you accidentally posted the same link from the previous entry.
Jeebus!
Jeebus!
Now THAT is fricking FUNNY!
idea for a freewayblog:
"if that's all it takes to catch Osama we should have had the election Sept 1, 2001"
I'm confused, the puppies killed the Sox fan?
Thanks Dr. Bonzo. So we should at all costs avoid fucked up religious criminals like the chimp, right?
Thanks for the correction, Atrios.
jeebs: We should at all costs avoid fucked up religious criminal fools like the chimp, yes.
If the police are going to shoot rubber bullets, they should first hand out Kevlar goggles to the crowd.
(Sox 7-2 in the 4th - yeah!)
i fear the cops all over the country are preparing to violently quell the protests when Dear Leader is reinstalled with 40% of the vote.
I still don't get the logic of the whole wolf thing. If the terrorists detect weakness in a new administration than they strike? So what happened 3 months into your's, Mr. President?
Because, unfortunately, it's showing pics of Woody Williams getting killed by Bosox batters.
Wait a minute. Cops kill a young woman and jokes are being made? Not right. There is NO humor to be garnered here.
It was refreshing to hear the only Police station in the world claim full responsiblity for their action, though.
Make it 8 months, point it still the same.
Start showing pictures of police brutality victims and the next thing you know, you'll have to show pictures of dead soldiers and other unpleasant truths..
Won't anyone please think of the children?
-
Did someone say media? Since this is going to be buried downthread anyway - here's some clips from the Rolling Stone John Kerry interview:
How did you feel when you first saw those Swift-boat ads?
Disappointed -- a sense of bitter disappointment. That people will stoop to those depths of lying -- for their personal reasons.
Did you get angry at Bush personally?
Look, I know politics is tough, and I don't spend a lot of time worrying about what they do to me. But I do worry, and I am angry, about what they do to the American people. That's what this race is about. It's not about me. I can take it -- I don't care. I've been in worse things. I was on those boats -- I got shot at. I can handle it.
What I worry about is that they lie to America. What I worry about is that they tell the middle class, 'We're giving you a tax cut,' and the top one percent of America gets more than eighty percent of the rest of the people. I worry that they are unwilling to do anything about the 5 million Americans who have lost their health care.
I worry that there are twenty-eight states in America where you can't go fishing and eat the fish, because of the quality of the water. I worry that they've gotten us into a war where young kids are dying, and they haven't done what's responsible to protect them. That's what I worry about. The rest of it is small pickings.
You don't get angry when Bush outright lies about you?
No, I don't get angry at it. I think it's sort of pathetic.
Were you surprised by how the Swift-boat thing blew up?
I was surprised that the media, even when they knew it was lies, continued to cover it and treat it as entertainment.
Looking back, do you think you handled it correctly?
I think so. Look, when people hold up something that's a complete and total lie, it takes a few days to show people and convince them. We did. They've been completely discredited.
Ouch. Link changed to not funny article. Pretty damn sad.
Just wanted to report in on my trip behind enemy lines. I've spent the last hour browsing the freeper boards, and looking at some other winger sites. It had been a concern of mine that we were just the left wing version of them, since we pretty much feel towards Bush what they appear to feel towards Kerry. There was one distinct difference though. We base our opinions on truth, while their opinions are generally based on distortions and logical fallacies. I'll do an in depth thing about this tommorrow in my blog, but I'm to tired to do it tonight.
For now, What really happened to Paul Wellstone? Sorry for the blogwhore, but y'all know I jes can't resis' mehself. =D
Ohio is now officially the new Florida. From Yahoo:
"CINCINNATI - A federal appeals court ruled Saturday that provisional ballots Ohio voters cast outside their own precincts should not be counted, throwing out a lower-court decision that said such ballots are valid as long as they are cast in the correct county. "
And so it begins...
Remember, Florida was stolen before well before election day, by the purging of the voter rolls.
OT:
Self-pity here, but God, I hate phone banking. I feel like I'm talking with rented lips.
I know, at least I wasn't getting shot at in Swift Boats or by rubber bullets in Boston, but, crap!
I'll stop whining now.
Richard,
That was beautiful. Good post.
Wait until I get you down here in Florida. You'll wish we were using rubber bullets.
Did I say that out loud?
The schools! The schools!
fuckity fuck fuck fuck. Who are those people who were telling me in game 7 against the yankees that the sox couldn't possibly lose now?
Bastards. Gaming the election in Ohio. GOP Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell at it again.
CINCINNATI - A federal appeals court ruled Saturday that provisional ballots Ohio voters cast outside their own precincts should not be counted, throwing out a lower-court decision that said such ballots are valid as long as they are cast in the correct county.
The ruling by the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals supports an order issued by Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell. Democrats contend the Republican official's rules are too restrictive and allege they are intended to suppress the vote...
O-hi-O gonna be this year's Florida.
The boss of you,
Go to John Kerry's website and sign up for calls for Kerry. They have an amazing site. I've worked for many Dem campaigns where I would agree with you, but this is different. I have never taken so much pleasure from calling and organizing events in my life.
"THEY SHALL NOT PASS"
Well, the police seem to know what to do when bystanders are mistakenly killed by their reckless violence...Crack Down!
What were they doing having a good time anyway...if they weren't having fun, we wouldn't have had to blast them!
Their fault...new rules...no fun...now go home sober.
"Mayor Thomas M. Menino said Friday that during the World Series, which begins here Saturday night, bars around the baseball stadium would be monitored closely to make sure they do not allow in too many patrons or allow people to drink too much."
Speaking of Ohio, does anybody know which judges were on the panel for the decision? I have a friend who clerked for the 6th, and I haven't found a news site that said who was on it.
Katherine Harris smells like a bag of dead turtles.
Washington Post endorses Kerry!
Bigvic:
Thanks. I was doing it for the Kerry campaign and for MoveOn. The sites are great and easy to use, I just feel tongue-tied and incompetent.
But I'll keep practicing and, by Nov 2, I may just be good enough to move to India and become a telemarketer.
RC (Please allow me the use of Dick Brain!) though you are nothing of the sort.
I will simply explode if this country keeps going down the road of making legal president of voter fraud. The Supremes forever sunk their standing by interfering in Bu$h v Gore in 2000. Fuck the will of the people. Democracy is owned by special intrests.
OT from other thread
WTF is up with Texas? Is it some distant plannet? Shit! I live in a stupid state but the willingness of these folks to turn their power of reason over to fundies is astounding. I don't get it.
bigvic
Been living in TX, by way of Ohio, Conn, NM, for 6 months now. We're living (renting, but just bought somewhere else) in one of those Master Planned Communties, The Woodlands. I gather like Sugarland (Delay's area). Way too many Jags and BMW's, but so many people comment on religious stuff in the middle of a conversation. Like; We did so and so after church, I was talking to some I go to church with, a conversation about the local cable includes favorite religious channels, ect...
I've never seen so many people say 'grace' in a public eating place in my life, even in Ohio in the 50's 60's, when it was what we did at home.
Even the real estate agent, has to make a point of his church going.
I was worried about moving here, but I swear, the most friendy, helpful people live here. You can tell an out of stater when they don't say 'Hi', or don't respond to attemps at conversation, and I'm a long haired aging hippie looking dude.
I'm confused also, but I think it comes down to the religion thing. Every stae has it's own Culture, and it's wierd how it follows state lines.
Something about the cultural norms here make TX subseptable to the Repub BS. OR did the repub BS originate Here? Doh! I think I just suprized myself, gonna go think about this.
The Boss of you,
Keep up the good work! After a few dozen calls you get fluent. Don't worry about the early stumbles. After a while, you will hit your stride and become a master of the phone.
anyone have a copy of the Patriot Act handy? would the actions of the Rethugs in voter suppression be considered "terrorism" under it's statues? I'm thinking of the "attempting to influence policy decisions by illegal means" section, and boy, wouldn't that be hoist by their own petard
Self-pity here, but God, I hate phone banking. I feel like I'm talking with rented lips
I'm sure you're doing GREAT. It takes time, but as you get more comfortable, and you'll be champ. You're doing the lord's work in this election, and people appreciate it 
Stinky and bigvic:
You're good eggs!
agave,
I grew up in a *devout* Chatholic family and early on figured out that they (the devout) couldn't answer simple questions. It was always about having faith in God. And it was all about damnation for failing to follow orders that convinced me that they were fucking with my mind, knowing that my principals were intact and theirs were not.
The phoney religious fakes abuse my true hero, Jesus, on a regular basis. I would welcome HIM back again, if not for the fact that the fundies would kill him all over again.
In case you missed it, the weapon used to murder that poor girl was purchased for use against DNC protesters
I've seen people shot by "less lethal" bullets. I guess it's better that the Boston police take responsibilty for this tragedy (and it really is a tragedy) than that they not, but come on. That's not enough. Is the officer going to be charged with murder? I doubt it. Is the sort of training that led to this senseless death going to be questioned and changed? Probably not. I wish this senseless death would help wake up middle-class Americans to the militarization of their local police.
re: my post
/sarcasm
I still don't get the logic of the whole wolf thing. If the terrorists detect weakness in a new administration than they strike? So what happened 3 months into your's, Mr. President?
joe
The logic in it doesn't exist.
If this was 100 years ago, it would have played well. But after the wolves have been nearly exterminated, what the hell were they thinking. No doubt they thought they were tapping into some kind of primal fear. Read an 1900's or so dark Russian novel, with the sleigh ride in the dark, with the howling in the woods, the glimpses of canine killers behind you, and you get the feel for it, but now, in the real world?!
The fact that the Repubs have come so far is a sad statement about our fellow USians.
.
i fear the cops all over the country are preparing to violently quell the protests when Dear Leader is reinstalled with 40% of the vote.
Well if the protesters get violent I hope they switch out the rubber bullets for regular ones. I value the life of police officers over the life of violent protesters any day.
I hope the woman's family hangs the city up by its heels and shakes it until the last fucking dime rolls out !
Just wanted to report in on my trip behind enemy lines. I've spent the last hour browsing the freeper boards, and looking at some other winger sites. It had been a concern of mine that we were just the left wing version of them, since we pretty much feel towards Bush what they appear to feel towards Kerry. There was one distinct difference though. We base our opinions on truth, while their opinions are generally based on distortions and logical fallacies. I'll do an in depth thing about this tommorrow in my blog, but I'm to tired to do it tonight.
That's like saying you were worried about other religions being like your religion but the distinct difference is that our god is the real god not theirs. Pathetic
Robert, you sound much like the supporters of King George. I mean the British King George, not our current incarnation.
Pathetic
Robert | Email | Homepage | 10.23.04 - 10:48 pm | #
Finally, something we can all agree on.
i fear the cops all over the country are preparing to violently quell the protests when Dear Leader is reinstalled with 40% of the vote.
Maybe protesting isn't the right strategy.
Aim for infrastructure. They can't guard all of it.
.
:o)
No longer obligatory, the standard disclaimer lives on forever: "The contents of this message are mine personally and do not reflect any position of the U.S. Government."
Again Robert, you make an ass of yourself. You don't believe in objective truth? You think everything is just a matter of opinion? It's amazing to hear a right winger that doesn't claim to believe in external reality. Please explain how you can defend the documented lies of the Bush misadministration or go away.
It's not too late for you. Join the reality based community and renounce Bush, and you'll be welcomed with open arms.
I'm between innings, here, so haven't perused the thread.
But the Red Sox did ask the crowd at Fenway, and, by extension, throughout the nation, to observe a moment of silence in rememberance of the young woman who was slain by a police officer. It was a very decent gesture on their part.
And my understanding is that it was a single cop who fired the fatal shot.
If true, a moment of prayer for the tortured soul of that officer would have likewise been appropriate.
It was a terrible tragedy.
Robert, you sound much like the supporters of King George. I mean the British King George, not our current incarnation.
Which means what exactly? the point I was making is that there is no difference. You have a left-leaning or "progressive" person post to this website saying that the only difference is that you guys use truth and good logic, while the evil freepers use fallacious logic. I'm sure some young biased freeper could say the same thing. It would go a little like this, "I noticed that we are both very shrill in our hatred of the candidates but those lefties don't use truth, they base their points on distortion and blah blah blah." I'm saying it's pathetic because since we are all taking in the information through secondary sources, we have no way of knowing for sure what the truth is. We just choose to believe certain people and discredit others that don't sync up with our own point of view. There is no truth in politics anymore, only spin and your version of the truth. I'm sure the King George shot gets you two more points on the who can be the most shrill contest. Good job.
Robert is not a member in good standing of the reality based community. He's probably never seen as unruly a crowd as he's attempting to describe.
Say, Robert: Would you have had the police use lethal ammunition on the thugs who stopped the counting of the hanging-chad ballots in Florida? They looked pretty fucking off the hook to me.
Again Robert, you make an ass of yourself. You don't believe in objective truth? You think everything is just a matter of opinion? It's amazing to hear a right winger that doesn't claim to believe in external reality. Please explain how you can defend the documented lies of the Bush misadministration or go away.
It's not too late for you. Join the reality based community and renounce Bush, and you'll be welcomed with open arms.
Again whether you say it's reality or not is just opinion. Unless you directly witness something, you can't know for sure if someone is lying to you or not. Pictures of troops and innocent civilians dead are the only truth in this war. Those are the only hard facts that we can all agree on. Everything else is up for debate because the right and left in this country don't have the same perspective. You say documented lies by the Bush administration, but then someone will come along and ask who documented them? Moore, Dowd, any other left-leaning opinionist. You won't be able to make the point to a freeper because when you mention those names, they automatically think liar. Just as if someone on the right were to argue a point made by Coulter or LGF. I'm not trying to equate the level of veracity between sources, I'm trying to equate the perspective of each side on their credibility.
I was horrified and profoundly disappointed back in 1984 when the city of Detroit rioted after the Tigers won the world series, but all they did there was set fired an overturn a police car. Unfortunately a moron decided to pose for the photographer beside the burning cop car and so that image has been burned in history's memory.
At least no one died. I have heard that the women was hit in the eye with a plastic fragmenting ball of pepper spray but I have not heard how that caused her to die, or why the police were aiming any kind of projectil at head height. It seems incomprensible that this sort of thing could happen and almost certainly the police must have over-reacted to the fan/mob celebration.
Say, Robert: Would you have had the police use lethal ammunition on the thugs who stopped the counting of the hanging-chad ballots in Florida? They looked pretty fucking off the hook to me.
If a crowd got unruly and violent to the point of endangering policemen's lives, than I would hope they would defend each other with deadly force if necessary. I don't care if they are right-wing or left-wing or anarchist protesters. I know that if they put the life of one of my officer friends in danger, I'd shoot them with a guilt-free conscience. It be a hell of a lot easier to live with myself then letting them injure or kill an officer and have to wonder what I could have done differently. Violent protest is not a guaranteed right. Remember citizens have the right to meet in a peaceful manner. The constitution doesn't protect those who through shit at police officers or attack them.
Robert, how about addressing the topic of this post?
That girl was beautiful. She was 21-years-old and was in the midst of a celebration.
Never put dangerous weapons in the hands of out-of-control, immature killers.
And yes, that does apply to a portion of supposed *good guys*.
I hope they string him up, the jerk.
If a crowd got unruly and violent to the point of endangering...
What a loser you are. Who had the weapons, the helmets, the riot gear?
What the fuck is the matter with you?
Someone killed a young, unarmed woman
What a big man.
Well if the protesters get violent I hope they switch out the rubber bullets for regular ones. I value the life of police officers over the life of violent protesters any day.
Robert
Of course, if YOU happen to be an innocent bystander, your righteous indignation and disdain for those rude, unkempt anarchists won't do one fuck of a lot, in helping to save YOUR bacon from the lethal weaponry of Officer Friendly. Will it?
See? Right there's the problem with you lawnorder reactionaries. Shit for brains. No thinkee.
Exactly,
I was raised Lutheran, by a strict, very intelligent, but yet very religious father.
Yeah, so many obvious contradictions, could not be answered, without invoking the ‘only god knows’, crap. The turning point for me was that I was supposed to believe that the wine and the wafer WERE the body and blood of Jesus, not just symbolic.
I now am a total 100% atheist, but like you, and unlike the BS artist, Bush, I look towards the ideal of, if not the real person, Jesus Christ, as some one to be emulated as best one can.
Don't feed the trolls...
I value the life of police officers over the life of violent protesters any day.
Violent protesters?
WHAT VIOLENT PROTESTERS?!!
This was a celebration. There were no protests.
You are an absolute moron.
Robert, how about addressing the topic of this post?
That girl was beautiful. She was 21-years-old and was in the midst of a celebration.
Never put dangerous weapons in the hands of out-of-control, immature killers.
And yes, that does apply to a portion of supposed *good guys*.
I hope they string him up, the jerk.
I don't know why her being beautiful matters, I would think it just as much a tragedy if she were ugly. Obviously I wasn't in Boston to see what happened. I read the article but didn't see the pictures. Pie, were you there to see what happened. Did she happen to be in part of a crowd that was destroying things and causing chaos on the street? Was she just an innocent passerby who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time? Did the equipment malfunction causing death. Was she intentionally killed?? All these questions aren't answered by the story that atrios linked to. If you know where I can get more info on the incident, then I can get a better picture of what happened. I think it's just downright assanine to convict him in the court of public opinion without an investigation. Are you the same way with all those who appear guilty, or is it just police officers that deserve the guilty until proven innocent treatment? If they find that the officer did everything the way he was trained and the death was accidental, then why should his life be ruined? It won't bring the girl back? If the officer handled the situation according to protocol and it was faulty protocol then by all means sue the department, but I don't know enough to condemn a police officer because I wasn't witness to the events. I can tell you from having to work during similar (although much more subdued) situations here at ASU in Tempe, that the officers put up with a lot of shit that they shouldn't have to before they take any action at all. Police officers are an easy target for the ignorant (pie that's you) but most of the people who bitch wouldn't dare spend a day in their shoes. Police officers are crucified by the media and rarely even get that hero moment like fire fighters can sometimes, but they put their life on the line to keep people safe, and of the 50-60 officers I know personally, they are all good men and women, who are sometimes put into situations where there might not be a "good" outcome.
Police are to protect and serve...and as for deadly force, it's not usually used on party goers or protesters...unles you're in a facist state.
...even if a drunk is hanging from a lampost or jumping on a car...you don't shoot them.
Fortunately, it seems, most police are smarter than the troll here that espouses the abuse of power. A trained professional will not have to kill a person to do crowd control. The officer that shot her was reckless.
Pie, you're right, she was a beautifl 21 year old young lady.
Thersites, did you see this comment from one of yesterday's threads?
Agree with you on Internet forums
I will register on the internet forum of your choice and post messages agreeing with you in any argument or flame war you are involved in. I have three PCs and multiple internet connections, so I can pretend to be several people at once without anyone detecting it.
£10 for each registration and £2 for each message. £5 extra for each person when logging on as more than one person at the same time.
"THEY SHALL NOT PASS"
I value the life of police officers over the life of violent protesters any day.
Robert
OK, where on your scale do nuns fit? Higher or lower than police officers? How about plumbers? How about foreign police and violent American protesters? How about- oh, fuck it.
Go away, you silly troll.
Again whether you say it's reality or not is just opinion.
Ah, the Right embraces quasi-postmodernist teen angst yet again.
It's no wonder...when reality keeps tripping you up, you're bound to start resenting it.
Shoulda started out
BigVic
Exactly,
I was raised Lutheran, by a strict, very intelligent, but yet very religious father.
Yeah, so many obvious contradictions, could not be answered, without invoking the ‘only god knows’, crap. The turning point for me was that I was supposed to believe that the wine and the wafer WERE the body and blood of Jesus, not just symbolic.
I now am a total 100% atheist, but like you, and unlike the BS artist, Bush, I look towards the ideal of, if not the real person, Jesus Christ, as some one to be emulated as best one can.
Of course, if YOU happen to be an innocent bystander, your righteous indignation and disdain for those rude, unkempt anarchists won't do one fuck of a lot, in helping to save YOUR bacon from the lethal weaponry of Officer Friendly. Will it?
I'd never be a dumbass on the other end of the gun. I'll be a police officer this time next year, and I wouldn't be dumb enough to take part in rioting, hence the need for "riot gear." I don't see them as rude, "unkempt" anarchists, I see them as drunken idiots who wanted to destroy shit. The same thing happened here at U of A when the wildcats won the NCAA basketball championship a few years back and I think 2 or 3 people got injured or killed back then because of the mob mentality. So you are going to blame the death on the police officers trying to keep order, whereas I blame it on the crowd rioting. I guess I'm just old-fashioned in thinking that people should be held responsible for their actions. If you go out rioting, you are taking the risk of getting hurt from more than just police officers. People use the huge mob of people as an excuse for rioting and causing chaos, but would you be so hard on a private citizen if they had shot at one of the mob who got violent and attacked him and the bullet accidentally hit an "innocent" person in the mob? Again neither of us was there, so we don't know how innocent this girl was or how the incident went down. You are just dogpiling on the officer without all the info, then it will be you guys who get indignant if and when an investigation shows it was an accident.
I think it's just downright assanine to convict him in the court of public opinion without an investigation.
We discussed this the day after it happened. Someone shot into a crowd and this girl was hit in the eye. She died.
No, it doesn't matter that she was beautiful, but she was. She was a journalism major at Emerson and just happened to be in the midst of the crowd at Fenway. The Police Commissioner took full responsibility for her death. But, of course, we've hardly heard anything about it in the mainstream media.
My daughter, another college student, was there and left before this happened. It was all over the news in Boston.
The cops were in full battle gear. Some of them have no business being in that situation.
It was manslaughter.
Robert, God help the people if you become a policeman with that attitude.
You're already doomed to fail.
Imagine the kick of pride and adrenaline the gunman must have felt when he realized he'd hit the girl in the eye, the one place she was vulnerable.
Dig the fucking passive voice in the linked story:
Snelgrove was a bystander in a crowd of thousands outside Fenway Park early Thursday when she was shot by one of several pepper balls fired by police after fans threw bottles and bricks.
She "was shot"--sure enough--"by one [only one!] of several pepper balls...." Pepper balls! Surely not meant to harm anyone. A terrible accident! Yes, the offending "balls" were fired "by police," but only "after fans threw bottles and bricks," actively, the hoodlums.
Someone mentioned it the other day, but remember Kent State! Killed and injured: students and bystanders. Killers: brave National Guardsmen with LIVE AMMUNITION on a FUCKING COLLEGE CAMPUS, on orders from the governor with the blessing of the president.
(You youngsters might need to be told, that president was Nixon.)
Peace.
And the militarization of American police forces continues apace.
I'll be a police officer this time next year
Congrats, bitch.
I hope you can show more restraint than the sorry asswipe that is responsible for the death of this young woman.
Asswipe.
WHAT VIOLENT PROTESTERS?!!
This was a celebration. There were no protests.
You are an absolute moron.
pie
Hey pie you aren't the only one I'm responding too. Someone else mentioned thugs in the florida election. I used the term violent protesters because they are the most common example of police needing to break out the riot gear. For clarification if the "celebration" turns violent and looting breaks out or people's cars are being destroyed and fires set, it's no longer a simple "celebration." How would you feel if it was your car they overturned and set on fire?
OK, where on your scale do nuns fit? Higher or lower than police officers? How about plumbers? How about foreign police and violent American protesters? How about- oh, fuck it.
How many nuns do you think would be drunk on the streets of Boston after game 7? And you call me the "silly" one?? The main point I'm trying to make is that you are all rushing to judgement without all the evidence. You don't know for sure whether the girl was innocent or not. You don't know if the Police officer had an equipment malfunction that caused it to kill her accidentally. People always talk about someone who was killed in a mob (celebrating or otherwise) in such good terms about how they were not a violent person, but when a drunken mob starts destroying stuff, they aren't all in their usualy everyday mindset. Someone with a few beers in them that's high as a kite after their team won isn't going to do the same thing as Joe Everyman CPA at 7 am monday morning. I'm just going to researve the right to "string him up" until I see that he's proven guilty or innocent of wrongdoing.
"Well if the protesters get violent I hope they switch out the rubber bullets for regular ones. I value the life of police officers over the life of violent protesters any day.--Robert"
Trollbait. Trollbaiter.
We just put 500,000 PEACEFUL protesters on the streets, so shut your shithole, troll. If the police riot, they will be using real bullets, and real chokeholds, and real fascist repression.
However, the police nationwide are NOT controlled by the R party. We have had very little police repression in the last four years, and most city cops would not follow orders in a bogus martial law incident.
They are not stupid. I probably talk to more cops (as a protester) than anyone else on this blog. They get hardballed by R supervisors, and forced into taking actions they would not do if not under orders. But they also refuse to take bad orders, just like our soldiers in general do. They're Americans, not outright thugs.
The problem with the Bush-wingers is that they DO HAVE private, or public (SS, FBI, pseudo-SWAT), repression forces, THAT ARE NOT OUR CITY COPS.
And, yes, it is certainly possible that aggression will be used to keep protesters off the streets after the vote-fraud and unconstitutional court rulings. You might as well prepare yourselves.
The protest will remain peaceful; the riots will not. Our greatest power will be massive peaceful protest: 5 million people in DC should do it.
--
Someone mentioned it the other day, but remember Kent State! Killed and injured: students and bystanders.
Not one of the four dead students was involved in any protest. They just happened to be near the area, walking to class or some other destination, and were hit by the bullets which didn't have the good sense to hit the *offenders*.
Murder.
Holy Shit, on topic.
Never put dangerous weapons in the hands of out-of-control, immature killers.
What kind of person would intentionally put them selves in the position of a cop?
Some one looking for a good paying job?
Some one thinking about their family?
OR
Some one with a screw loose?!
Some one with a little dick mentality needing power and respect they couldn't get otherwise!
The standard should be, if you want to be a cop, something's wrong with you!
Don't give me this boy scout crap about community service, you're even more self deluded.
.
From Editor & Publisher -
http://
www.editorandpublisher.co...t_id=1000683265
Meanwhile, E&P has learned from several sources at the Cleveland Plain Dealer that the paper's nine-person editorial board decided earlier this week that it wanted to endorse Kerry but Publisher Alex Machaskee, who has final say, has decided on Bush. The paper backed Bush in 2000.
This has caused consternation in some quarters at the Plain Dealer, with sources telling E&P that the endorsement editorial, which was expected to run Sunday, was put off.
How would you feel if it was your car they overturned and set on fire?
Well, last I looked, it wasn't a crime punishable by death, Roberto.
I'll be a police officer this time next year,
Bull fucking shit you will.
That lie is second only to "I'm shipping out next month" in the troll hall of fame.
If I could press a button and make you trade places - this instant - with one of our soldiers in Iraq, I wouldn't hesitate. You deserve to suffer what they're going through; they don't.
And the militarization of American police forces continues apace.
MisterX
And they wouldn't have to be so damn militant if the people out there wouldn't test the boundaries of the law and egg on police officers. I've seen how crowds get in "crowd control" situations from the point of view of the officers. There are very few if any "innocent" civilians when you get to the point of having to use tactical crowd control measures. We aren't talking about peacefully assembled fans hugging and singing like new years. I'm not the assanine one. It's those of you who don't know a damn thing about police work, or how they set policy, or the hoops that officers have to jump through on a daily basis just so they don't get sued for not filling out the proper paperwork, but you have no problem monday-morning quarterbacking when you don't know the first thing about law enforcement. This is why non-unionized officers vote Republican at such a high rate. They go with the party that appreciates their sacrifice and the gravity of the positions they are put in, and doesn't just bitch and moan as ignorants with no clue.
You don't know for sure whether the girl was innocent or not.
You should be in her grave, you worthless fucking prick. And again, if I could make you switch places with her, I would.
It took her a night to die. I hope it takes you a solid week.
The standard should be, if you want to be a cop, something's wrong with you!
Um, I'm not sure who you were addressing, but there are good cops and bad cops, same as in every profession. However, bad cops are particularly dangerous, and someone in Boston made a very bad decision.
And it cost a young girl her life.
"Robert"-troll. All the (destroyed) property in the world is still not equivalent to the taking of one single human life.
Gourdhead.
I'll be an academy award winning, pulitzer prize contender with a 13" penis this time next year.
And a cop.
It could happen.
I wouldn't be dumb enough to take part in rioting...
Are you dumb enough to be a baseball fan walking out of a game? 'Cause that's what this woman is.
Thankfully, if you actually are going to be a cop, it doesn't sound like you'll be one long... one way or another.
What kind of person would intentionally put them selves in the position of a cop?
Some one looking for a good paying job?
Some one thinking about their family?
OR
Some one with a screw loose?!
Some one with a little dick mentality needing power and respect they couldn't get otherwise!
The standard should be, if you want to be a cop, something's wrong with you!
Don't give me this boy scout crap about community service, you're even more self deluded.
.
agave
Perfectly said. That's why it mostly conservatives who'll suit up to defend this country both on the streets and overseas. You see it as an ego thing or a "little dick" thing, whereas some of us actually love this country enough to do something for it. Most of my police officer friends could do a number of better paying jobs. My best friend is an officer here at ASU and has the intelligence to be a lawyer or whatever else he puts his mind to. I've never seen the guy fail, and he doesn't have an ego problem, he just enjoys police work and gets a certain sense of gratification in knowing he's doing something good for this community. I guess you'd just call him a self-deluded boy scout, but it's the truth.
If I could press a button and make you trade places - this instant - with one of our soldiers in Iraq, I wouldn't hesitate. You deserve to suffer what they're going through; they don't.
Philalethes
God you act like these troops are helpless and that a majority of them don't want to be there. Obviously given the option between being there, and being at home with their family, they would choose their family, but I know people over there personally, do you? Of the dozen or so people I know over there, they are all proud to serve and don't complain nearly as much as those like Phila who claim to care about their suffering. I know two guys from my home town of only 7000 people that volunteered to go back because they said the media doesn't have a clue when it comes to what's going on over there. Who should I believe? A couple of guys who have been over there and say that the vast majority of Iraqis will come up to them and hug them and thank them, or you guys who claim to care about the troops even though they will vote for Bush at about a 4 to 1 rate? If they think they are doing it for the right reasons, and they are the ones risking their asses (not you) why do bitch about it so much? Obviously your lawnchair quarterbacking ass isn't going to go over there and secure a free Iraq, so if there are those who signed up voluntarily to serve this country who are willing, then who are you to treat them like poor helpless victims.
I'm not sure if Robert is innocent or not. He should avoid crowds. He should especially look out for the police, who might doubt his innocence and shoot him through the eye and kill him, because, hey, you never know.
I'll be a police officer this time next year
Dang, I would have thought that the mall cops could cut a week or two of your training time off in recognition of your service as an ASU deputy hall monitor. Well, good luck anyhow. If you keep your nose clean for a few months, Andy will even let you carry a bullet in your shirt pocket.
-
Hey Robert,
"Obviously your lawnchair quarterbacking ass isn't going to go over there and secure a free Iraq.."
So, sign up, bitch. Get your sorry troll ass to Iraq ASAP. Georgie you needs you to die for Halliburton.
Oh, what's that you say? Your'e gonna be a COP instead? STFU, you coward.
Who should I believe? A couple of guys who have been over there and say that the vast majority of Iraqis will come up to them and hug them and thank them, or you guys who claim to care about the troops even though they will vote for Bush at about a 4 to 1 rate? - Robert
Woah woah woah WOAH. Wasn't your argument upthread that you don't know the facts about the situation because you weren't there?
I guess what you really mean is that you only believe what you WANT to, huh?
It would be a real crime if you ever got a badge.
You want reality Robert?
This is from a friend of a friend. She's a reporter who has been working in Iraq off and on since the beginning of the war. Here it is straight from her fingertips:
(obviously I've removed personal information from headers)
Date:
Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:13:00 EDT
Subject:
Fwd: Iraq
From my friend, Sandra ---author and Middle East expert---just back from a trip to Iraq at the invitation of the Army, for whom she does orientation sessions on Iraqi history, culture and politics for troops headed for duty there.
Subject:
Iraq
I'm back. What an experience!! I have been in Blackhawk helicopters, escorted around in armoured humvees with armed guards, mortared, and loaded on a C 130 to get out of Iraq.
Everything you hear about Iraq is true. There is a veneer of US control but that is all. I really feel for the American GI there. They are doing the best they can in the most awful circumstances. It is only going to get worse. The talk of reinstituting the draft is no joke. The troops are stretched thin and there is no one else to send. And those ideologues around Bush are talking about invading Iran.
With what??
I got home exhausted. I spent 47 hours on the road. Helicopter from Tikrit to Balad. There I spent 10 hours sitting in a tent trying to secure a seat on the plane to Kuwait.
Got into Kuwait by about 10 PM. Went straight to the airport and got on a Luftansa flight to Frankfurt. Had a three hour layover there and then on to home.
Many of the senior military officers I talked to are absolutely in despair about the prospect of a Bush election
victory. God save the republic.
Sandra
Hey Robert,
I hear you can get those cheetos stains out of your underwear with club soda and a toothbrush.
Hey, don't bother to thank me, I'm happy to help.
Woah woah woah WOAH. Wasn't your argument upthread that you don't know the facts about the situation because you weren't there?
I guess what you really mean is that you only believe what you WANT to, huh?
It would be a real crime if you ever got a badge.
MisterX
That is my point, I'm not there, so I'm going to believe people who I know, and are reliable. Not people with a political agenda. Most of the friends I have that are in Iraq don't care too much about politics, and I sited the 4 to 1 Bush voting rate from an article I read I believe in WaPo from a poll of active duty troops. Obviously you have to take it with a grain of salt, but having lived on a military base, they tend to lean very strongly towards Republicans
"Obviously your lawnchair quarterbacking ass isn't going to go over there and secure a free Iraq.."
So, sign up, bitch. Get your sorry troll ass to Iraq ASAP. Georgie you needs you to die for Halliburton.
Oh, what's that you say? Your'e gonna be a COP instead? STFU, you coward.
Central Scrutinizer
Very nice, and what is your brave job. Accountant by day, internet bitcher by night. Yeah you're definitely brave aren't you? You do know that all the branches met their quotas and that they aren't desperate for more people to enlist, George doesn't need me to die for Halliburton, although if it ever got to the point of a draft I'd drop what I'm doing and enlist so that I don't have to hear the bitching of those that aren't willing to fight for this country.
although if it ever got to the point of a draft I'd drop what I'm doing and enlist so that I don't have to hear the bitching of those that aren't willing to fight for this country.
You mean like John Kerry did, and GWB & Dick "Five Deferrment" Cheney did not.
Just sayin'....
Hey Robbydouth (sp?..douche) - who are you voting for?
You do know that all the branches met their quotas...
Put your money where your mouth is, son. Don't wait to be asked.
Talk shit, eat shit.
Coward.
Dig the fucking passive voice in the linked story:
Snelgrove was a bystander in a crowd of thousands outside Fenway Park early Thursday when she was shot by one of several pepper balls fired by police after fans threw bottles and bricks.
She "was shot"--sure enough--"by one [only one!] of several pepper balls...." Pepper balls! Surely not meant to harm anyone. A terrible accident! Yes, the offending "balls" were fired "by police," but only "after fans threw bottles and bricks," actively, the hoodlums.
I hadn't caught that earlier, or what Pie had said because the ratio of posts to responses for me is more than I can keep up with. I didn't realize she was just some innocent bystander who happened to be there, and obviously she never should have been killed, but I still say condemning officers who were trying to use non-lethal forms of crowd control is not the way to go. For christ sake they were throwing bricks and bottles at them. How many bricks and bottles would have to wiz by your head before you did something about it. And the point is that they did not use their "live ammunition" like in Kent State. They tried to use non-lethal pepper balls, but obviously something went wrong. However, we don't know if the police officer did anything wrong or if the pepper ball was malfunctioning. My guess is the latter. Do you think the use of any form of non-lethal equipment shouldn't be allowed. Obviously the term non-lethal is what it is supposed to be, not what actually happened.
Jon Stewart on Cspn right now its good shit!
The troll changes the subject, or it gets the hose.
"You don't know for sure whether the girl was innocent or not."
This could be a BushCheney 04 campaign slogan.
It perfectly encapsulates both the preferred sentence (death), and the standard of proof needed for "criminals" in the Republican version of nirvana. Beautiful.
.
You mean like John Kerry did, and GWB & Dick "Five Deferrment" Cheney did not.
Just sayin'....
S in Mich
Absolutely, I think John Kerry the better man for his service, but then again I voted for more than just his service record. I think John Kerry is obviously the more honorable man in terms of his sacrifice to this country, but does that mean I should vote for him if I don't agree with him politically? What would happen if it were McCain vs. Kerry? Both with honorable service records, but each with different ideologies? I'm voting mostly for economic reasons, and I tend to agree with Bush's tax policies, just like our newest nobel prize winning macroeconomics professor here at ASU: Eduard Prescott.
I like poopy and I like to smell my own poopy.
"It puts the lotion in the basket!"
Um, sorry, I was discussing Cheney's bizarro comments on another thread, but didn't I read somewhere how there's been a DROP in the reservists signing up? Like they're 5,000 short or something? And since the reservists are our new "volunteer" army (since we've pretty much maxed out our standing one), that doesn't bode well, when BushCo. decides it wants to invade Iran and/or Syria.
Just sayin', that's all.
The troll changes the subject, or it gets the hose.
Central Scrutinizer
It's called responding to a post, I didn't change the subject. The subject was the killing, and I was addressing the fact that i was wrong about the innocent bystander comments. From the Atrios posted article you don't get any info, but Pie and another person gave me more info about her truly being just an innocent bystander in the entire event. I was wrong to question that, but I am still questioning whether the police officer in question should just be "strung up" as pie put it without further investigation. I believe there is such a thing as accidental death, where no one is held liable. It's happened before.
..but Pie and another person gave me more info about her truly being just an innocent bystander in the entire event.
Yeah, and you called pie "ignorant."
I was wrong to question that...
Yeah, you got that right.
Sign up bob. I'll help you if you're too fucking stupid to find your way to the recruiting office.
Coward.
From The Economist:
http://tinyurl.com/6oows
The economy and the election
The dismal science bites back
Oct 7th 2004 | WASHINGTON, DC
From The Economist print edition
George Bush comes out worst in our poll of academic economists
WOULD John Kerry or George Bush do a better job stewarding America's economy? Judging by the polls, voters are not sure. Within the past couple of months both candidates have had narrow leads on the issue. Ask economics professors, however, and you get a clearer answer.
In an informal poll of 100 academics, conducted by The Economist, Mr Bush's policies win low marks. More than 70% of the 56 professors who responded to our survey rate Mr Bush's first-term economic policies as bad or very bad. Fewer than 20% give positive marks to Mr Bush's second-term economic agenda, and almost six out of ten disapproved. Mr Kerry hardly got rave reviews either, but his economic plan still fared better than the president's did. In all, four out of ten professors rated Mr Kerry's economic plan as good or very good, but 27% gave it negative scores.
* * *
From MSNBC:
PHILADELPHIA - John Kerry won the endorsement of 10 Nobel Prize-winning economists Wednesday as he attacked President Bush for policies that he said have led to the creation of only low-paying jobs.
* * *
http://tinyurl.com/48mtp
Sign up bob. I'll help you if you're too fucking stupid to find your way to the recruiting office.
Coward.
Central Scrutinizer
That's ok I think I'll be fine in OCS if I decide to go in after I graduate and become a police officer. You can do reserves and still hold a job you know. What is it exactly that makes you not a coward, or not stupid, that you can throw around the labels so easily?
Trolls and their small dicks aside, the lawsuits that the city of NY will lose over the RNC illegal detentions and toxic exposures, and Boston's upcoming wrongful death suit, which they will lose (leave your phone number, 'bert, and I'll have the mayor call to cry on your manly shoulders), are the main power preventing the wholesale destruction of civilian life by gun-happy police.
That said, I am thankful for police, and would like BETTER police to be thankful for. That's not better at killing civilians, that's better at balancing the interests, so they aren't just rent-a-cops protecting property, or racial profilers working for the Plantation.
--
So you didn't get any info from the article Atrios posted. It's called research, my man. The internets are really good for that. If I read something that feels like it's lacking in specific details, I go look for other information elsewhere instead of whining about it - if you have enough time to read & respond, you have enough time to do a Google search for more sources. Besides, I think Atrios' post had to do with the fact that people objected to seeing the gory reality of what actually transpired. It's a valid point, I think, and I can see both sides of the issue. Now I'm off to go look for more information...
Anonymous or Robert?
A little advice son,
You best decide who you are before you decide what you are, boy.
Sign up now, and you'll figure out who you are pretty damned quick.
"You can do reserves and still hold a job you know."
That's the MYTH, now being amply disproved by a certain Gold Star motherfucker.
You can also get your splatter in a box, or the newer tubes, though you might want to recall that Bush was opposed to repatriating remains, because they might glow in the dark.
Happy Halloween, from the traitors at the West Wing of Satan Central.
--
"What is it exactly that makes you not a coward, or not stupid, that you can throw around the labels so easily?"
Easy: He's not abetting sending out kids to die in the desert, while sitting in comfort and safety. He's working to get them home alive.
Trolls, on the other hand, "bravely" send other people's kids out to die, berate those who don't agree with them, but won't risk their own fat asses.
If you are pro-war, if you really believe in this fight, then sign-the-fuck-up, or shut-the-fuck-up. You can't have it both ways...
Something called having the courage of one's convictions. But, looking at their leader, "Bush - King-of-Cowards", its presumably just a case of "monkey see, monkey do"...
.
Anonymous or Robert?
A little advice son,
You best decide who you are before you decide what you are, boy.
Sign up now, and you'll figure out who you are pretty damned quick.
Central Scrutinizer
Jeevus, now if haloscan decides to act up and not save my name and email for some reason you'll harp on that. Who was just bitching about changing topics. Real hypocritical.
A little advice son,
You best decide who you are before you decide what you are, boy.
Sign up now, and you'll figure out who you are pretty damned quick.
Central Scrutinizer
Jeevus, now if haloscan decides to act up and not save my name and email for some reason you'll harp on that. Who was just bitching about changing topics. Real hypocritical.
Anonymous
It did it again, although now it has my name and email saved properly. Don't harp on me for haloscan fuck-ups.
I doubt that the pepper ball malfunctioned. Any kind of projectile, if it strikes you in the eye with enough force behind it, can kill you. Hello, physics.
I AM the Law. Nobody is innocent.
Is a pepper ball malfunction like a wardrobe malfunction?
*
Breasts don't kill people, pepper balls do...
*
Don't harp on me for haloscan fuck-ups.
No, actually you're being "harped on" for being a hypocritical dipshit.
Get your ass to Iraq, boy.
Courage of your convictions, and all that.
He's working to get them home alive.
Working huh? By bitching in a website comment section he's working? I think the unemployment numbers are way too high then.
If you are pro-war, if you really believe in this fight, then sign-the-fuck-up, or shut-the-fuck-up. You can't have it both ways...
So then what about the troops that did sign up because they felt like me? Would you tell them to shut up because they don't agree with you? I lost an uncle because of Vietnam and I have another uncle on my father's side who is a load master running missions into Iraq all the time. So if I have a loved one in harms way am I allowed a point of view? If someone's husband is in Iraq, do you tell the wife to shut the hell up because she isn't signed up? What about if they are the brother of someone, or parent or son? Or is it only if you personally are on your way over there that you are allowed to advocate the war? We've already seen that Philalethes would love to see me die. Does that mean that every soldier that shares my worldview deserves to die also? Or would you politicize my death along with the other 1000+ troops to make your point? Would you subtract one from the total and call only the other ones tragedies. Damn hypocrites.
I hope poor brave Papertiger is doing OK in the trenches. Haven't smelt the odious rantings of that slimy little pube-on-a-toilet-bowl around for awhile, so surely he has signed up and is makin'them 'Raquis pay for 'ol 9/11 or post-9/10 or pre-9/12 or whatever the fuck he used to call the day his shiny-dick hero Bush dropped the fucking ball.
Hard to dig a trench in sand, ain't she, Papertiger, Anonymous and other troll-septic-tank-scum. Still, easier than getting a job when you've got no fucking legs eh?
.
Robert's a coward.
He talks shit, but refuses to swallow it.
G'night, son.
Robert/Anonymous,
Man to man, coward to coward, let's talk.
You're young. You're lucky. I'm glad you're here. You're here because (I think) you're trying to learn something.
If you really want to kill people, join the Army or Marines. They need you. Don't become a cop. Please.
Chance are you don't like being a coward. Well, you'll always be one. Neither combat nor pretty young journalist-control is going to change that about you.
Shoot for grad school. Maybe business. A fast-food franchise. But please keep away from guns.
Peace.
Ok, I don't know if this thread is still going, but I need to comment here. First, Robert, I want to thank you for participating in the discussion, even if it is hostile to you. We must learn to talk to each other, even when we disagree so strongly we want to break things. That being said... I am a veteran of the US Marines. I know lots of people in both Iraq and Afghanistan. They are doing the best they can admirably, and they deserve (and get) our respect for that. It is that respect that makes me so opposed to Bush. To him, they are little more than pawns in his political games. There were no weapons. Iraq was not an immediate threat. But we are there now, and we must attempt to see it through. But Bush, at every turn, has proved himself incapable of making the correct, wise decisions required to win an unconventional conflict such as the one we find ourselves embroiled in Iraq. Also, you mentioned Bush's tax policies. We are at war, and he asks for no sacrifice except for those who are dying everyday. The rich should be lining up to give back that tax cut, or they would be if they were truly patriotic. It is easy to support a war if you don't have to fight it yourself, or sacrifice for it. During WWII, we won because the entire country made sacrifices, whether on the battlefield or the homefront. In the war against Islamofascism, we truly have nothing to fear but fear itself. If we give up one iota of liberty in the name of security, then the al-Qaeda truly will have won.
Haloscan doesn't store your name or address. Your browser has to do that.
The 'pepper ball' is yet another illegal tool the police are far-too-happy to test on the innocent. Bush is also testing out a range of new weapons on the innocent in Iraq.
In the Northwest, police have been holding protesters down and painting their eyes directly with swabs of (police-strength) capsaicin. Although the private corporations making money distributing this stuff deny it, capsaicin is deadly for many persons, especially those with respiratory or neurological illnesses.
In the early days of the protest of the illegal Iraq invasion warcrime, a sheriff locally hit a teenage nonviolent protester with his nightstick. He was promptly sued, sanctioned by the force, and forced to apologize.
Since crowd control is an art, and not an opportunity, it would be better if CAUSES of legitimate, moral protest were not invented by corrupt traitors who believe that God gave them the right to kill the innocent and destroy countries in order to install airbases and so dominate resources.
The innocent civilians, the mothers and daughters, that Bush splattered on kitchen walls all over Iraq--
you applaud the police over the protester, and the murderer over his prey. And you expect politeness?
--
"So then what about the troops that did sign up because they felt like me? Would you tell them to shut up because they don't agree with you?"
Obviously not, needle-dick. Can't you read?
But don't you go counting yourself among them, not till you've been there, OK? Talk is cheap.
If you are so worried about your relatives over there, put out a collection for the body-armour and the Humvee doors instead of pissing around in websites with your moral inferiors, tough guy.
"Or would you politicize my death along with the other 1000+ troops to make your point? Would you subtract one from the total and call only the other ones tragedies. Damn hypocrites.--Robert"
A clear sign of a winger, this spurious claim. Bush does nothing but politicize everything that would otherwise be illegal, hiding the crime inside the delusions and racisms of his followers.
Q: "Would you POLITICIZE a war, to make your cash."
B: "Arrest that woman. She cannot see the obvious of my actions, and therefore cannot appreciate my Holiness. God told me I could blame all Arabs for the actions of a few, and slaughter tens of thousands at my Will. I politicize everything, because my Role has been given me by God Himself, alias I."
--
Robert's a coward.
He talks shit, but refuses to swallow it.
G'night, son.
Central Scrutinizer
Actually haven't been talking shit or calling people cowards, but I will say who I really think is a coward. Someone who uses the safety and comfort of their keyboard to just trash anyone who doesn't share their view. Don't worry, I will sign up after I graduate, whether you believe it or not, and I will defend this country or help defend Iraq for the Iraqis or however you want to put it. I'm sure you'll just say I'm lying and trying to play a freeper angle or whatever, but everyone in my family (every uncle and even 2 of the aunts I have) have served in the military and I plan to honor my familial tradition and do the same. It's why I started at a military academy, and it's why I support the military directly, not with the "bring our boys home" method.
Aethern
A man worthy of respect, and the only one who has the right earned through his service to call me whatever he wants. The rest of you can go ahead and do it, but it's meaningless to me. This man's opinion should count double or triple what the average persons does because he's served this country and isn't just a keyboard warrior. I respect your opinion but would just disagree about the economics aspect. I know there is disagreement about tax cuts and their role in the economy, but if you believed they work to jump start the economy, then wouldn't you want to do that even if there was a war going on? I understand that if you disagree with the tax policy of Bush, then it would seem patriotic for them to line up and give back their tax cuts. How many in liberal hollywood cut that check? Did Clinton, or Kerry or Heinz-Kerry? It would ring a little more true if they took the lead and gave it back first. Otherwise they look like a guy in a bad comedy who is complaining about the taste of the food while stuffing his face with it.
Slightly OT, but very important.
How come no one seems to be paying attention to the news that one of Zarqawi's senior aides was arrested in Fallujah. See http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/me...main/
index.html.
Could they be laying the ground work for one of the October Surprise scenarios -- news of arrest of Zarqawi? If Rove wants to pull that off, where would he begin? With the arrest of a senior aide, of course. They will tell us that the aide sang and led to Zarqawi (just in time for the US election).
"But Bush, at every turn, has proved himself incapable of making the correct, wise decisions required...."
Amazing how you delude yourself. Bush is EXPERT at doing exactly the minimum it takes to install the airbases and destroy the country so they can stay.
As a subsidiary interest, Bush is working hard to privatize the military. If you don't complain about 20,000 legal-waver mercenaries fighting alongside our UCMJ-following troops, then you don't understand this subsidiary task either.
BOTH Bush is doing with considerable prowess. He is not incompetant, he is negligent. There is a huge difference, and that difference is covered with the blood of soldiers, reserves, and a lot of innocent civilians.
And right after his stolen election, Bush intends to send Iraq up in flames.
"There is no more Iraq. There will be three territories." --Henry He-Should-Know Kissinger, unprosecuted war criminal and genocidist.
--
Slightly OT, but very important.
How come no one seems to be paying attention to the news that one of Zarqawi's senior aides was arrested in Fallujah. See http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/me...main/
index.html.
Could they be laying the ground work for one of the October Surprise scenarios -- news of arrest of Zarqawi? If Rove wants to pull that off, where would he begin? With the arrest of a senior aide, of course. They will tell us that the aide sang and led to Zarqawi (just in time for the US election).
"A man worthy of respect, and the only one who has the right earned through his service to call me whatever he wants. The rest of you can go ahead and do it, but it's meaningless to me. This man's opinion should count double or triple what the average persons does because he's served this country and isn't just a keyboard warrior."
So, you'll be voting for John Kerry, then?
.
If you are so worried about your relatives over there, put out a collection for the body-armour and the Humvee doors instead of pissing around in websites with your moral inferiors, tough guy.
TelltaleHeart
I do care about our troops over there, so I voted for the guy who voted for the 87 billion in supplemental spending of which some went to body armor and bullets and other necessities, not the one who voted against it. You want to make broad generalizations, I can to.
I'm suprised, Robert, if you're being trained to be a police officer, I shouldn't need to point the following out to you:
First, these rounds are not called "non-lethal." They are called "less-lethal."
Think there might be a reason for that?
Its still very very possible to kill someone with a rubber bullet or (as we've seen here) a pepper ball. These are not toys to be fired at angry protesters, these are self-defense munitions to be used in situations where the officer is in situation where they absolutely need to disable a target but want to avoid using lethal force if at all possible.
In unarmed terms, its similar to going for the throat or eyes. You probably won't kill someone unless you intend to, but you don't throw punches at someone's windpipe during a ten-second bar brawl.
There are plenty of other ways to deal with unruly crowds, all of which have a virtually 0% fatality rate.
Police are also given riot shields, kevlar vests and helmets for a reason. Nobody likes having bottles thrown at them, but a thrown bottle couldn't concievably kill or even seriously harm a properly equipped police officer.
Unfortunately, it appears that too many young officers get rubber bullets or the equivalent and think "Neat, it's like a gun but I don't have to feel bad if I shoot someone with it!"
Obviously, this is not the case.
I don't doubt that policing is a difficult job, but that doesn't excuse the excessive and irresponsible use of force shown in this scenario.
This man's opinion should count double or triple what the average persons does because he's served this country and isn't just a keyboard warrior.
Like you, huh?
Robert
that $87 billion bill passed and the troops still did'nt get proper equipment
total incompetence
I do care about our troops over there....
Sign up, girlfriend. Support the troops be becoming one of them.
Quit hiding behind your keyboard, you silly twit.
Both Kerry and Bush voted for the $87 Million, and in addition, Bush threatened to VETO it.
But still there are not enough body armour to go around.
That's YOUR guy in the driver's seat, not Kerry. BUSH is the one failing to deliver the Kevlar, not Kerry. And those are YOUR relatives that Bush is letting down and putting at risk.
But it's all good right? Because, you know, Halliburton is getting paid it's share of the $87 Mil. on time every fortnight, yeah?
.
Regarding the capture of Zarqawi or one of his top aides... even if this was the "October Surprise" I doubt it would resonate with the general public enough to swing any votes. Zarqawi doesn't have the ring of "Bin Laden" or "Sadam Hussein". Most people have no clue who he is... And I think it's too late anyway for that to have an impact.
*
Seriously Robert, if you feel so strongly about this, why haven't you signed up yet?
But it's all good right? Because, you know, Halliburton is getting paid it's share of the $87 Mil. on time every fortnight, yeah?
.
TelltaleHeart
yeah i know how Halliburton has become your whipping boy. All else fails, mention halliburton enough times. Let's just leave out the fact that they've been there supplying our troops with meals and supplies since WWII. NOpe they are just an evil corporation bent on ripping us off. Completely unbiased commentary.
Zarqawi who?
""that $87 billion bill passed and the troops still did'nt get proper equipment-total incompetence""
Robert-
respond to this point, don't dodge with feigned indignity toward someone's remarks about Haliburton
"Zarqawi doesn't have the ring of "Bin Laden" or "Sadam Hussein". Most people have no clue who he is... "
Interesting point. Watch out for a "Just Who is This Evil Swarthy Mastermind Zarqawi?" special on Fox as a precursor to the "sudden capture" of some terrified looking shepard (or some blurry photos of a badly shredded, moustachioed corpse-in-a-turban in a bombed-out mud-brick shack)...Mission Accomplished!
"Let's just leave out the fact that they've been there supplying our troops with meals and supplies since WWII. NOpe they are just an evil corporation bent on ripping us off. Completely unbiased commentary.
Corporations aren't people, though you people think they are. Halliburton in WWII is not Halliburton post-Cheney.
Halliburton delivers $1000 ea. concrete barriers to the Green Zone, when starving Iraqi concrete workers can deliver the same exact thing for $200 each.
Compassionate Conservatism is paying your friends handsomely.
--
Slightly OT, but very important.
How come no one seems to be paying attention to the news that one of Zarqawi's senior aides was arrested in Fallujah. See http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/me...main/
index.html.
Could they be laying the ground work for one of the October Surprise scenarios -- news of arrest of Zarqawi? If Rove wants to pull that off, where would he begin? With the arrest of a senior aide, of course. They will tell us that the aide sang and led to Zarqawi (just in time for the US election).
The best thing about toying with Robert is that it keeps him away from the other threads. It's a shit job, but someone's gotta do it.
Slightly OT, but very important.
How come no one seems to be paying attention to the news that one of Zarqawi's senior aides was arrested in Fallujah. See http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/me...main/
index.html.
Could they be laying the ground work for one of the October Surprise scenarios -- news of arrest of Zarqawi? If Rove wants to pull that off, where would he begin? With the arrest of a senior aide, of course. They will tell us that the aide sang and led to Zarqawi (just in time for the US election).
Halliburton delivers $1000 ea. concrete barriers to the Green Zone, when starving Iraqi concrete workers can deliver the same exact thing for $200 each.
Compassionate Conservatism is paying your friends handsomely.
--
Paul
Isn't that the whole idea of fair trade? You got Kerry running around talking about outsourcing, but in the Halliburton case you hate them because the job isn't being outsourced? Have you ever spent a little extra for brand name shoes instead of the K-mart special? If you are then why aren't you letting those poor K-mart shoe makers have your business? It would seem that outsourcing is a horrible evil unless you let Halliburton do work for the U.S. government then it seems I'm hearing that those jobs should have been outsourced to our "allies" who didn't come with us. No bid contracts because they are the only American company that can do the job doesn't bother me. It would bother me more if a German or French company got the job even though they weren't willing to help in the liberation efforts.
Rob
more Iraqi workers=less Iraqi insurgents
"yeah i know how Halliburton has become your whipping boy. All else fails, mention halliburton enough times. Let's just leave out the fact that they've been there supplying our troops with meals and supplies since WWII. NOpe they are just an evil corporation bent on ripping us off."
You are being sarcastic. I'm shocked.
Answer. The. Question:
Why support THE MAN who fails to supply your relatives with body armour?
You think Halliburton deserves its money more than the troops deserve body armour now? You fucking lowlife maggot. Your own relatives? You must relly hate that loadmaster uncle of yours.
"Completely unbiased commentary.
I'm as biased as a motherfucker. And you only just noticed? You are not too bright there, are you liverlips?
Sign up, you primping lotion-daubed body-hair shaving mirror-gazer.
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Halliburton delivers $1000 ea. concrete barriers to the Green Zone, when starving Iraqi concrete workers can deliver the same exact thing for $200 each.
Robert/Anonymous sez: "Isn't that the whole idea of fair trade?"
Uh, no, not exactly.
Fucking idiot.
Compassionate Conservatism is paying your friends handsomely.
Paul
Yes, as someone pointed out here a few days ago... let's just call it what it is:
compassionate cronyism
*
The best thing about toying with Robert is that it keeps him away from the other threads. It's a shit job, but someone's gotta do it.
Central Scrutinizer
yeah can't have that dissenting opinion poisoning you pure bloods now can we.
Just like when everyone here was bitching about Bush saying he's against all 527's and you guys freaking out about freedom of speech, but then at a campaign rally, a Kerry supporter says to Kerry "we gotta shut down these swift vets" (not exact quote but meaning is accurate) and Kerry says We will. Same idea, but that's ok with you guys because the swift boats are liars right? If they are, then why hasn't any defamation or libel or slander lawsuits come against them? Probably for the same reason they can't against Michael Moore, You can't proove in a court of law that 1) the views expressed are completely and utterly false 2) willful intention to deceive 3)can't really prove opinions or point of view false.
dunno.
If I was your typical native Fallujan loyalist, I don't think I'd like Zarqawi very much. He's clearly trouble, being a total and complete magnet for high-explosive ordnance. And beheading innocent aid workers really gives the resistance a bad name. I sure as hell wouldn't want to hand him over to the enemy, though. I think what I'd do is kill him myself and stash his corpse where NOBODY would ever find it, then throw it on the doorstep of the Green Zone, badly decomposed and stinking to high heaven, the day after the election. I suppose I might not really care about the US election, but then again it seems that ANYTHING would be better than Mr. Bush's idea of the new Iraq.
So unless the marines go in there by themselves and get him, Zarqawi is not going to get handed over.
Of course, they could come up with a ringer, but unless the guy was completely made up in the first place (a definite possibility), that could backfire in a BIG way when the real Zarqawi sends his regards on a video tape.
Then again, maybe they're waiting until the very last second to stage his phony capture so that he won't have time to prove it's not him.
...Or maybe, just maybe, the October Suprise is that Rove and his gang of goons have plum run out of ideas!
There's one to turn out the light to and go to sleep smiling......
Sorry, my posts about Zarqawi were repeated a couple of times. No idea how that happened.
It would bother me more if a German or French company got the job even though they weren't willing to help in the liberation efforts.
This has never made sense to me. Any company from any country who could do the job well and at a competitive rate would serve in the overall effort. Seriously, what is the problem?
*
Robert avoids all hard questions
So many mistakes in Iraq-can you acknowledge one?
Economics 101 For War Profiteers:
"$1,000 Barriers" = "No-Bid contract".
"No Kevlar for Grunts" = "Ceramic plates cost more that training new draftees".
Especially when Halliburton's got the training contract too. And probably owns most of the Military cemetaries, transport planes, body-fluid-proof coffin-size flag franchise, and can re-sell the bullet-riddled uniforms back to the Military after dry-cleaning and patching in a Chinese swatshp somewheres...
.
but that's ok with you guys because the swift boats are liars right?
SBVFT?
Yep.
Just curious: are you John O'Neil?
Uh, no, not exactly.
Fucking idiot.
Central Scrutinizer
Actually the main point of so called "fair trade" is to protect our goods from the competition of lower priced foreign competitors goods. That's a lot of the ideology behind the outsourcing mantra of John Kerry. He thinks corporations should have to pay American workers more when "poor _____ (fill in country) workers" can do it for 1/3 of the cost.
Forget the fact that any attempt at Kerry and Edwards "fair trade" agenda will get shot down from the WTO. He can't impose tariffs, and he is calling for crack down on corporate loopholes, which means if he is successful, that there will be less profit margin and it will be harder for corporations like say Boeing for example to compete with the state subsidizes Airbus's of France and Germany.
Keep up the name calling, at least I know something about economics. You complain about corporate giveaways, but in many countries, these large corporations are wholly or greatly subsidized by the governments making it hard for independent U.S. companies to compete on an even playing field. Democratic response, "fair trade" but like I said, the WTO doesn't really like American dominance so they don't allow us to put tariffs on imports like steel (anyone remember chinese steel tariffs) and therefore we lose jobs to the Chinese steel factories who have less overhead, and don't have to have a team of lawyers to combat trial lawyers like Edwards who have no caps on damages. Hell even German workers who make more money have an advantage because their companies don't have to deal with frivolous lawsuits. In most European countries, the burden of proof is on those who bring the lawsuit, and if they don't prove their case, they have to pay the legal fees of the defendant which means no more frivolous lawsuits to force companies to keep teams of lawyers.
BTW Robert,
I can do this all night long and into the morning, and it's nothing more than jerking your chain to me.
Join up, friend.
You'll be a better man for it.
Hasn't the Bush administration talked enough about Zarqawi (he is blamed for almost everything that goes wrong in Iraq)? Why do you think Zarqawi is unknown to the public? I thought everyone knew about the beheadings and that Zarqawi is associated with those.
Just to make sure we get the importance of Zarqawi, news was recently publicized that Zarqawi swore allegiance to bin Laden.
If they announce arrest of Zarqawi, don't you think Fox News can whip up a frenzy?
Rob
the point was supposed to be to put Iraqis to work to build their own country, to keep them happy and productive--has'nt happened
Actually the main point of so called "fair trade" is to protect our goods from the competition of lower priced foreign competitors goods. That's a lot of the ideology behind the outsourcing mantra of John Kerry. He thinks corporations should have to pay American workers more when "poor _____ (fill in country) workers" can do it for 1/3 of the cost.
This is happening under "president" w, not Kerry, dimwit.
Are you that fucking stupid?
"yeah can't have that dissenting opinion poisoning you pure bloods now can we."
Robert, nobody is stopping you from speaking. Disagreeing profoundly with your vicious, stupid message is not the same as shutting you down.
Unlike if one of us posts on the fabulously mis-titled "Free-Republic" site, you and other dissenters do not get banned here.
WE practice what we preach. You and yours DO NOT.
But this is just a microcosm of the wider world, isn't it, you sallow, diaper-wearing fraud?
We don't need to CHEAT to win.
.
Robert avoids all hard questions
So many mistakes in Iraq-can you acknowledge one?
deidre
Absolutely, we don't have enough troops on the ground, and probably never did. But neither presidential candidate is advocating more troops. We shouldn't have negotiated with Zarqawi, and should have taken the Geneva convention at it's words. When terrorists or insurgents or combatants or whatever shoot from holy sites or mosques, they are then free to be shot at. We shouldn't be so damn culturally sensitive about a few sites if these guys have no problems shooting from them. If a combatant has no problem desecrating the sanctity of a holy shrine by using it for cover and firing a weapon from it, then it can't mean all that much. Also we should have delayed the invasion plans when Turkey withdrew the use of their bases, until we had a way of doing the 3-pronged attack we wanted and were unable to do. This would have allowed us to have troops coming from more directions and would have helped us keep the Museums, etc in Iraq from being looted and pillaged. Obviously there are a lot of mistakes. I can admit mistakes we as a country have made, and I as a person have made. I don't expect the same from my opponents because I'm more of a "personal responsibility" type person.
No need to ask.
As long as Robert's here he's not on the streets shooting possibly-guilty young women.
Welcome Robert!
Like all wingers, Robert is ruled by fear. I am too, but for some reason it doesn't make me want to shoot people.
Robert (and I too) might be happier in a country where any idiot can't go down to the corner and buy a gun to defend himself against pretty young journalists who might or might not be innocent--such as Greece, or France, or England, or any other country in the world that has experienced real modern war on its soil (and isn't run by its "defense" industry).
Yeah I'm drunk, but goddamn I'm sick of shoot-first-and-never-ask-questions Christian coward soldiers.
BTW, Robert, you might want to enlist soon, before all the plum spots are taken--the ones that allow you to kill a whole lot of possibly guilty people all at the same time, from way up in the sky, where you never have to hear the screams or see the blood and the tears. You'll get medals! That's your reward for bravely enlisting instead of waiting around to get drafted.
On the other hand, maybe you're a sensualist and a romantic and want to get to know people before you kill them. Maybe you like to know whose blood you're soaking in. Either way, Bush is your man.
Use your sense. This war is criminal, Robert, and you know it. It was wrong, wrong, wrong, and can't be made right. I support all troops of ours who are victims of it, but if you want to go get in on the pointless massacre, I will NOT support you, because you know better. Although there's really not much danger of that happening, is there?
Peace.
Yeah I'm drunk
Me too speedy, but that's never stopped me either.
Peace to you, bro.
Robert, nobody is stopping you from speaking. Disagreeing profoundly with your vicious, stupid message is not the same as shutting you down.
I'm not the one that's hostile here, I don't come in and call you all names, and refer to you as idiots, unless you start in with me first. I'm not being vicious with my ideas, whatever that means. As i recall, there has been only one person who has been called an F-ing idiot in the last few posts, and I'm not complaining about that or being shut down, just citing it as an example that shows that I'm not the vicious one.
WE practice what we preach. You and yours DO NOT.
I have honestly never even visited the free-republic site, so I wouldn't know anything about that, and if you are right in what you say, then that's petty and hypocritical of them.
However, don't start in on the practice what you preach, because Democrats are already bitching about voter fraud and "suppression" of the vote. I'm not gonna argue against you on this, but in Pennsylvania the Democratic Governor is doing the same thing with the military vote, making it harder for the boys in blue to cast their absentee ballots. The basic story is that he won't extend the deadline for military ballots even though the state sent them out late. Practice what you preach... You were saying?? You don't need to cheat to win?
"Obviously there are a lot of mistakes. I can admit mistakes we as a country have made, and I as a person have made. I don't expect the same from my opponents because I'm more of a "personal responsibility" type person.
HA ha. fake nobility and a cheap shot all at once. Next he's going to walk and chew gum.
So, back to the body armour you refuse to provide to your loadmaster uncle in-country. Is that his "personal responibility" too?
I mean in the land-of-free-enterprise, it's his own damned fault that he's got no chest-plates. What does he think this is, communist China? Sheeit, buy your own damned bullets, Bubba! Am I right?.
.
President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry
President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry
President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry
President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry
President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry
President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry
President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry
President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry President John F. Kerry
Robert -
I don't disagree with some of your points, but we've been so culturally insensitive in countless ways -- way more than taking up armed positions at holy sites -- because of this we've damaged our position in the world to such a degree that, no matter who is elected our next president, there's going to be hell to pay for decades to come. And this I lay directly at the feet of Bush & Company.
*
Thanks Helios,
We'll be hearing that a lot in the next eight years.
Did someone say "President John F. Kerry"?
That's got a nice ring to it.
.
Like all wingers, Robert is ruled by fear. I am too, but for some reason it doesn't make me want to shoot people.
psychoanalyst huh? Actually I'm not ruled by fear. I'm ruled by a sense of civic duty first and foremost. Family and community ahead of myself is the basic idea. So if you're drunk and rambling, don't tell me what rules my life.
Use your sense. This war is criminal, Robert, and you know it. It was wrong, wrong, wrong, and can't be made right. I support all troops of ours who are victims of it, but if you want to go get in on the pointless massacre, I will NOT support you, because you know better. Although there's really not much danger of that happening, is there?
See I don't agree with you. For you I'm obviously naive, or just cold-hearted, but I see Hussein as the criminal, and anyone who wouldn't stand up for those being persecuted. You bitch and moan about the white American journalist girl who was innocently killed, but who cares about the brown or yellow skinned kurds who die at the hands of the Baathists? They aren't American and aren't any of our business. If an evil dictator wants to kill his own people he's entitled to it right?
There have been and will continue to be innocent people killed during this war, but the ratio of guilty to innocent is much higher than if we let Saddam keep on with his ways. So that justifies it to me. Speedy even said he supports our troops that are a victim of the war, but what about the troops that support it and want to be there? Do you support them if they support Bush's plans?
Like all wingers, Robert is ruled by fear. I am too, but for some reason it doesn't make me want to shoot people.
psychoanalyst huh? Actually I'm not ruled by fear. I'm ruled by a sense of civic duty first and foremost. Family and community ahead of myself is the basic idea. So if you're drunk and rambling, don't tell me what rules my life.
Use your sense. This war is criminal, Robert, and you know it. It was wrong, wrong, wrong, and can't be made right. I support all troops of ours who are victims of it, but if you want to go get in on the pointless massacre, I will NOT support you, because you know better. Although there's really not much danger of that happening, is there?
See I don't agree with you. For you I'm obviously naive, or just cold-hearted, but I see Hussein as the criminal, and anyone who wouldn't stand up for those being persecuted. You bitch and moan about the white American journalist girl who was innocently killed, but who cares about the brown or yellow skinned kurds who die at the hands of the Baathists? They aren't American and aren't any of our business. If an evil dictator wants to kill his own people he's entitled to it right?
There have been and will continue to be innocent people killed during this war, but the ratio of guilty to innocent is much higher than if we let Saddam keep on with his ways. So that justifies it to me. Speedy even said he supports our troops that are a victim of the war, but what about the troops that support it and want to be there? Do you support them if they support Bush's plans?
I don't disagree with some of your points, but we've been so culturally insensitive in countless ways -- way more than taking up armed positions at holy sites -- because of this we've damaged our position in the world to such a degree that, no matter who is elected our next president, there's going to be hell to pay for decades to come. And this I lay directly at the feet of Bush & Company.
I have a hard time hearing a cultural sensitivity lecture when we are dealing with the type of people who thing female
"I don't expect the same from my opponents because I'm more of a "personal responsibility" type person."
So you're gonna sign up then?
Cool.
Or is that the same kind of personal responsibility that w subscribed to when he checked the box that said "I do not want to serve overseas?"
Robert -
Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11. And Bush preyed on the nation's fears and took us into an unnescessary and immoral war against a defenseless people. We've killed and tortured and maimed tens of thousands of innocent people.
We have not avenged 9-11. Why is that so hard to understand.
*
sorry got cut off.
... type of people who think female castration is a good thing, and regularly have horrible human rights violations. I don't like when people think that our lives are worth more than the lives of other human beings, but I can safely say that in many ways, our culture is truly superior and I wouldn't mind seeing some of these "cultures" obliterated.
HERE they are...Endorsments
I have a hard time hearing a cultural sensitivity lecture
Okay. I tried to be civil and give you some benefit of the doubt. But you call that a lecture. You are a troll.
*
Rob
Iraq posed no threat to America and had nothing to do with 911, and Bush knew that. The intelligence was doctored.
There are other ways of deposing dictators.
What about all the carnage in Africa. Let's invade there too.
We have not avenged 9-11. Why is that so hard to understand.
Afghanistan is not a Taliban controlled government anymore and they have had (however flawed) free elections, will 9/11 only be avenged if you see Osama Bin Laden brought to justice? Is that the big climactic end to the war on terror? Do you know what the terrain is like in Afghanistan and how hard it is to track OBL? I obviously don't know personally, but I do know our troops aren't trained to hunt down terrorists in harsh terrain that they don't know, whereas the troops and warlords that Kerry claims Bush "outsourced" the job of finding OBL to know the terrain much better and have a better chance of tracking him. Does anyone really think OBL does any terrorist training or planning while he's cave-jumping. Obviously mistakes have been made, and I acknowledged some, although I'm sure there are many more, but you refuse to acknowledge any success, so at least I'm intellectually honest enough to admit some bad with the good.
Rob
never heard of female castration in Iraq
"The basic story is that he won't extend the deadline for military ballots even though the state sent them out late. Practice what you preach...?"
If that's true, that's fucked up. There's a lot more of that going on against the Dems, but that still doesn't make it right.
But, like Jenny, I believe it was Bush (the "Uniter-not-divider") who brought us here. Sure he didn't expect 9/11, but maybe he should have.
Nevertheless, his incompetence in handling, and then exploiting, a time of national grief has near-enough ripped America in two, and has polarised nearly every nation in the entire world against y'all. I know, I live out here.
You were not wrong to vote for him in 2000 - that was a reasonable (if questionable) democratic choice. But you are criminally negligent if you vote for him again. He is the biggest, most dangerous fuck-up ever, and that is plain for all to see.
It's your democratic duty to vote for the best man for The Job. Bush, patently, is not that man. In fact, he's no "man" at all.
.
Robert -
The so-called war on terror is not a war on a population or on a nation. It is a "war" on terror cells. You cannot "carpet-bomb" to effect the desired end. This is called "cultural insensitivity".
Now the damage we have done is to create new generations of terrorists. Now we have created a massive wave of heretofore non-hostile people turned haters. Every Iraqi and Afghani who has been orphaned, everyone who has had a family member or friend killed or tortured by our troops or contractors, creates another wave of hatred. Not to mention those who are out of work, out of electricity, out of hope.
The invasion of both countries was stupid and heavy-handed and non-productive. We are not safer. We are in big trouble.
*
Afghanistan is not a Taliban controlled government anymore..
How the hell do you know that?
Outside Kabul, it's Warlord City, my friend.
I obviously don't know personally
No, because you're a wannabe cop sitting behind your keyboard in cheetos stained underwear.
..so at least I'm intellectually honest enough to admit some bad with the good.
Nah, you're just a sillyass troll.
At least 12 of the newspapers listed here backed Bush in 2000 but now strongly endorse Kerry.
Why do hometown papers hate America?
Afghanistan had a bumper crop of poppies this year... hooray! And guess how terror is funded?! hmmm...
*
New York Times: October 17, 2004 - "We look back on the past four years with hearts nearly breaking, both for the lives unnecessarily lost and for the opportunities so casually wasted. Time and again, history invited George W. Bush to play a heroic role, and time and again he chose the wrong course. We believe that with John Kerry as president, the nation will do better."
.
Being a cop isnt an easy job. Having other situations make add to stress can result in such. Get someone hyped up for a protest busting event that never ensues and that simmers until something like that goes down.
For every bad cop there's more good ones. Hell writing tickets is a necessary evil for the most part.
When it gets to the point this kind of riot suppression intimidation becomes standard polciy then things need to tone down and GWB is incapable of such because he never admits an excuse. He keeps the pressure cooker going and ignores warnings.
Civilians as collateral damage. it should never happen. The person who fired that is a dishonor to the badge.
But we need TORT REFORM so the gun manufacturer suffers no ill will from this. More NRA slime boat movies. never mind that this is going to be used in FLA and OHIO in the next few days, and Cali. Ahnold will just love to order this kind of action.
This tragedy is a microcosm that is about to magnified in sociopolitical terms. Try getting folks ready for first aid to others at polling places. That such even merits discussion shows the point bushco has dragged this down to.
Now the damage we have done is to create new generations of terrorists.
I don't believe that. You have no way of knowing if this will help increase or decrease the amount of terror in the future. I don't think a purely reasonable person would become a terrorist for the sole reason of Bush's foreign policy. Besides Bush is at least right in one aspect. Free countries will be less likely to support terrorism.
We've already seen that Philalethes would love to see me die. Does that mean that every soldier that shares my worldview deserves to die also?
Nope. Just you.
More than happy to clear that up; sorry I didn't make it clear enough the first time.
Rob
more Iraqi workers=less Iraqi insurgents
cleo
That's just plain stupid logic. So anyone that is out of work is going to be an insurgent? Do you realize that the term Iraqi insurgent is an oxymoron? Insurgent means they came in from another country, so "insurgents" have nothing to do with how many workers are working. Why is it that you guys will parse the hell out of every possible meaning of what I say, but idiot logic is blurbed by someone who agrees with you guys, and you don't keep them in check. I'm constantly slapping my conservative friends in the back of the head when they say something stupid. But I guess you have to think of the next cheetoh stained insult instead of talking actual issues. I'm sure it'll do you well in collecting the swing vote. People don't go for the ideas of those who come off as petty and mean. You should keep that in mind boy...
Nope. Just you.
More than happy to clear that up; sorry I didn't make it clear enough the first time.
Philalethes
See I may find you moronic and sophomoric at times, but I don't wish to see you die. I wish you a long life of being a bitter cynical hypocrit. I just wish you would do the same.
,i>That's just plain stupid logic.
Surely you, if anyone, would understand that, no?
Insurgent means they came in from another country,
It means nothing of the sort. Your grasp of English is as poor as your grasp of current events.
Your ignorance isn't our fault; stop taking it out on us.
insurgent does not mean that
an Iraqi with a decent job is much less likely to take up arms--the more jobs for them the more peaceful it would have been
plus we should have closed the borders and secured the ammo dumps--more mistakes
I wish you a long life of being a bitter cynical hypocrit. I just wish you would do the same.
Robert
Fine...I'll do the same. I wish you a long life of being a bitter, cynical hypocrite.
Besides Bush is at least right in one aspect. Free countries will be less likely to support terrorism.
Are you saying the Iraqi people are free, Rob? I think they would beg to differ. Why do you believe everything this lying, cheating and stealing administration throws at you?
*
"I don't believe that. You have no way of knowing if this will help increase or decrease the amount of terror in the future. I don't think a purely reasonable person would become a terrorist for the sole reason of Bush's foreign policy."
Iraqis were never the US's enemies. Now, after bombing and killing them, a couple of years (and more to come) of armed occupation of their country, a puppet government, torture and imprisonment without trial (everything, in other words that Saddam himself supplied except employment, working electrical grid and clean shit-free water to drink), there's a whole generation of Iraqi orphans just itching to kick your arse.
Do you know how many suicide bombs were used to try to assasinate Saddam over the years he was in power? None. Not a one.
Hereis something whic hmay seem hypothertica toy you, but is really a true story: IF Iraq did to the US what the US is currently doing to Iraq (whatever the "good intentions" they claimed), what would you do? If they killed your father and several brothers and sisters from the back of a Humvee? If they installed an Iraqw-friendly puppet government and then promised to institute "free elections", while continuing to syphon off all your resources, give all your jobs to Iraqi "civilians" they brought in from the middle-east? Need I go on?
Look, you've got to take off your rose-coloured glasses. It doesn't matter what YOU believe. It doesn't matter what noble intentions you subscribe to the US's actions. What matters is what others think of you and your actions.
Nobody in the world trusts you anymore. As a nation, you are on the nose. No friends, anywhere.
Doesn't it worry you that the once-great-and-principled America now sits alone in the world like a hulking, sulking child sucking it's thumb and wondering why no-one wants to play with it?
And Bush's "stay the course" non-solution is to offer more of the same. More religious zealotry, more violence, more ignorance, more self-delusion and greater levels of insult to anyone who doesn't agree with him. Yep, that boat's sure to float...
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It's so sad that it has to be repeated:
Do you realize that the term Iraqi insurgent is an oxymoron? Insurgent means they came in from another country
What can you do with people like this, really? What can you do with people who'll mistake any nonsense that strays into their heads for God's Own Truth, and spout it with such utter self-assurance?
They don't know anything, and can't be bothered to learn, and yet they feel competent to talk about matters of life and death as though they're the very picture of Righteousness and Wisdom Personified...they can afford to get downright intoxicated with their own bluster, because they know that their cowardice will keep them perfectly safe, no matter what.
I miss civilization. I want it back.
I miss civilization. I want it back.
me too, Phila. me too.
*
"Your ignorance isn't our fault; stop taking it out on us."
That is a keeper....
Sorry Philalethes, I am stealing it. Great come back. Now I need a chance to use it.
I think what probably happened is that Robert left, because he coulnd't stay without having to admit that he has no idea what "insurgent" means. He took a gamble with his high-falutin' talk of "oxymoron," and he lost, so now he's skulked away, to return another day under yet a different name.
As I've said elsewhere, the average Bush supporter would rather eat a piece of dogshit than admit he mistook it for a Tootsie Roll.
"If an evil dictator wants to kill his own people he's entitled to it right?"
So where were you when we were protesting Reagan when he sent Rumsfeld to try to sell Hussein the Jordanian oil pipeline project?
You know, the one where they bribed the Israeli political party NOT to bomb it?
And where were you when April Gillespie, Bush's envoy, told Hussein the US didn't care if he invaded Kuwait? Sleeping? Teenage?
Where were you when Reagan/Bush blocked the UN's protest of Hussein's genocidal Anfal? Where were you when Bush told the marsh arabs to revolt, and then, far from assisting as promised, let Hussein fly his attack helicopters?
You need a history lesson, troll.
--
Why do people like Robert never mention the number of innocent Iraqi's who've been killed and injured in this war. And why would anyone in their right mind not think these folks hold nothing but contempt and hate towards the American occuption. The Iraqi people don't need America to tell it what to do. We should get the hell out of Iraq and start looking for, capturing, and killing those who would do grave danger to our country given the chance. Saddam, and Iraq did not attack America. Bush and co did far more to harm America than saddam & co. in Iraq would have ever been capable of.
"Do you realize that the term Iraqi insurgent is an oxymoron? Insurgent means they came in from another country, so "insurgents" have nothing to do with how many workers are working."
Holy crap. Did Robert acually say that? I knew he was a pants-wetting anal-fingering bicycle-seat-sniffing public toilet-loiterer, but I didn't realise he was ...an embarassing fool.
I'm not going to bother talking with you any more Robert, because you are dumb. You've let me down. You seemed like a bright fellow (though disturbingly narcissistic and hateful towards your uncle). And I thought we had something special going on between us.
.
Good night, folks...volunteering for the Kerry campaign tomorrow, so I'm gonna see if I can possibly get to sleep before three AM tonight.
Play nice!
oops typo, it't late here even on the west coast, should say * OCCUPATION
Hey Paul, I'm sorry we were ever off on the wrong foot. You're OK in my book! I've been liking your posts a lot lately.
OK, I'm outta here.
"Halliburton delivers $1000 ea. concrete barriers to the Green Zone, when starving Iraqi concrete workers can deliver the same exact thing for $200 each.
"Isn't that the whole idea of fair trade? You got Kerry running around talking about outsourcing, but in the Halliburton case you hate them because the job isn't being outsourced?" - troll
For the record, NO BID CONTRACT, YOU SHITHEAD.
I'm gonna have a nap too. All the bad spelling, using "subscribe" whan I meant "ascribe", the bad bolding and the 18 inches deep of beer bottles currently rolling around on my floor like cargo on the Titanic all suggest that no-more-typing-with- my-thumbs-and-nose is probably appropriate right about now.
Robert, if you promise to attend night school,and stay away from bus-station rest-rooms, I might just banter with you some more. Otherwise, it's over between us. Insurgents are foriegners? Mother-of-god...
G'night Amigos and Amigolas and Amygdalas.
.
"Why do people like Robert never mention the number of innocent Iraqi's who've been killed and injured in this war."
Because they believe that they aren't racists even though they condone the murder of innocent people because of their nationality, race, and/or religion. They believe that nationalism justifies racism, which is, btw, just what Hitler believed. They are racists, but they tell themselves they really aren't, because that doesn't feel good.
They don't think Limbaugh is a racist, even though he quite clearly is, and he specifically spreads the kind of white supremacist bullshit they like to smell. They see torture as hazing, and murder as bringing freedom BECAUSE they are racists.
They deny it, and you have to Nuremberg it out of them.
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"As I've said elsewhere, the average Bush supporter would rather eat a piece of dogshit than admit he mistook it for a Tootsie Roll.--Philalethes"
There's a big bowl of those on Bush's desk in the Oval Office, with a sign that says, "Eat Two and Smile, And Maybe We'll Love You More."
The Oval Office is the place where Bush doesn't have to explain what he's doing; other people have to eplain what THEY are doing...and, as it happens, with their mouth's full.
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OT, Bravo showed Tom Clancy's "Clear and Present Danger" tonight. When I saw Tom with General Zini criticizing the Bush admin I didn't really understand him that well. But this movie shows that he understood, years before 9/11, how our govt could be misled by a handfull idealogues with their personal agendas and how easy it was to decieve congress . Watching the scenes of american special ops soldiers being killed by colombian forces after they had been abandoned by the admin brings to mind the scenes of GIs dying on the streets of Baghdad as the bastards in Washington scramble to cover their assess. Two more weeks, gosh I can't wait!
I'm angry over the death of Victoria Snelgrove. A young woman, at the wrong place at the wrong time, was killed by a crowd-control device purchased by the Boston police to quell demonstrators at the DNC in Boston. The funding for this purchase I'm sure was part of the Homeland Security funding that cities like Boston used to arm their police to the teeth.
There was actually very little violence and bedlam present during the post-game partying going on the night of Snelgrove's death. Police overreacted, plain and simple.
Secondly, the administration in Boston (Mayor Menino and police comm. O'Toole) are not addressing the incompetence and lack of planning that went into the events leading up to the death of an innocent young woman.
Lastly, let me say that in a country where the ruling junta in power has raised incompetence to the status of virtue, how can we expect any less from our local municipal leaders.
Police brutality, whichever way you spin it, is sick and violates the rights of citizens guaranteed by our constitution. The fact very little is going to come from the few protests is evidence of how far the Patriot Act has usurped our rights and plunged us deeply into security culture hell!
BTW, since when does a 21 year old female college student's senseless death warrant humor?
Lastly, let me say that in a country where the ruling junta in power has raised incompetence to the status of virtue, how can we expect any less from our local municipal leaders
So does that mean that under John Kerry, you will attribute every wrongdoing by an officer to him as well, or is it that you will only do that to Bush?
"So does that mean that under John Kerry, you will attribute every wrongdoing by an officer to him as well, or is it that you will only do that to Bush?"
What makes you think that we would be any kinder to Kerry than we are to Bush?
I expect a lot from a leader. Kerry seems significantly more likely than Bush to deliver decent quality leadership in these troubled times. Clinton was hardly perfect, but he did a reasonable job. When he didn't, I complained. A citizen's duty.
But Bush is a fuckwit, and is not fit to wipe Kerry's ass. Voting for him, having seen what we have seen of his inability to perform competently, is an insult to the Presidency itself.
I'm an independent voter, reluctantly voting for Kerry. Another four years of BushCo and we are four more years down the road of no return.
Kerry voted to support the Patriot Act, as did most of his Democratic (and Republican) colleagues. For that, I'm disappointed and plan to hold him accountable as President should he continue down the road to a surveillance/security state. I have some hope that under Kerry, there might be a backing off from this rampant security crackdown, based upon fear, which the Bush administration has used to maximum advantage.
I don't know what a Kerry administration will be like. I do know what Bush's past four years have been like.
Who has been fired from his administration for any incompetence in the areas of intelligence, defense, leaking information, etc??
I have some hope that a Kerry presidency might restore a measure of competence and accountability to our governing culture. I know four more years of BushCo will only give us more lies, obfuscation and lack of accountability ("I can't think of any mistakes I've made...." GW Bush).
Why the fuck did they apologize? Yes, the photos were graphic, but newspapers are supposed to report the news. It was news. None of this censoring bullshit, please.
However, the police nationwide are NOT controlled by the R party. We have had very little police repression in the last four years, and most city cops would not follow orders in a bogus martial law incident.
i really hope that you are right, but i do not share your optimism. Of course i am paranoid.
I'll be an academy award winning, pulitzer prize contender with a 13" penis this time next year.
And a cop.
It could happen.
Robert
Bobby, put down your Bosco and dog-eared copy of Hustler and listen up: if you want to win a Pulitzer is might help if you learned to spell. As for the prnis goal, i get all sorts of e-mails telling me how to achieve that, so it won't be much of an accomplishment if you add another 3".
You mean we can see pictures of innocent young women lying dead in the street but we can't see pics of soldiers caskets?
That liberal media...
Women have a rule they use online whenever men mention their penis sizes. The rule is: Always divide by 4 to get the real measurement. That seems appropriate here.
"Police brutality, whichever way you spin it, is sick and violates the rights of citizens guaranteed by our constitution."
That aside, lawsuits, as I said, are the way this is controlled. The city managers don't like shelling out millions to police misconduct cases.
"BTW, since when does a 21 year old female college student's senseless death warrant humor?
Jim"
When people need to blow off the constant tolling of the bells, Jim. We're in a war, and in a war we do tend to laugh when we might rather cry.
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"Kerry voted to support the Patriot Act, as did most of his Democratic (and Republican) colleagues."
Knowing it was sunsetted. To talk about the PA and not acknowledge 911 is to sit self-contentedly at home, and point your finger at the tv. These representatives are in the kitchen; they are in the oven in fact. And they cannot oppose certain kinds of treason very effectively. Don't blame them so much -- their job is frequently impossible.
"For that, I'm disappointed and plan to hold him accountable as President should he continue down the road to a surveillance/security state."
It's a fair bet that will not be happening. Bushliarco has been a COUP. Restoration of government is coming right on up, or else Bush is going to have to turn into a fish to breathe the puddle of blood he'll be swimming in.
" I have some hope that under Kerry, there might be a backing off from this rampant security crackdown, based upon fear, which the Bush administration has used to maximum advantage."
Which Bush created, blatantly, in as cowardly and evil an attack as the US ever faced.
Kerry has fought Bush for a long, long time. You shouldn't be reluctant, and instead should be doing your novenas for Kerry's safety. Assassination is all too much of a possibility. And then who are you going to complain about?
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Pimp my ride baby
Paul--good points. I used to work with a woman who had a favorite expression; "sometimes you 'gotta laugh to keep from cryin'"--your post made me think of her.
I've more than done my part, Paul, during this election. I don't know how many Kerry signs I've had stolen in my little town of 2,000.
Believe me, I'm down with what time it is and am not deluded into thinking it's going to be "sunshine in America" under Kerry.
I'd be happy w/ some health care reform, a roll back of tax cuts for the wealthy and our troops coming home w/in the next year, but getting these crooks out (I liked the coup reference) would certainly be a positive start.
Cnn had a segment with wolf blitzer, jesse jackson and jerry falwell earlier today. Dunno if anyone else saw it but it was pretty unexceptional with jesse spewing demo tp's and falwell spewing repub tp's until the end:
Falwell: "I'd rather be killing them (the terrorists) over there than fighting them over here!"
Jackson: "Uh, I think we should try to end the killing and work towards peace."
Falwell: "Well you have to kill all the terrorists before you can have the peace."
At this point Jackson tries to respond but Falwell cuts him off with the following:
Falwell: "We have to hunt them all down and blow them away in the name of the Lord."
Jackson, dumbfounded by the overwhelming lunacy of the statement coming from a supposed man of God responds with a weak: "That's not very biblical."
And I just couldn't believe it. There was REV. Jerry Falwell saying we have to *KILL* the terrorists *IN THE NAME OF THE LORD*. And he said the whole thing with a smile on his face. I couldn't help but wonder what mental disease this man has. Has he read the same bible I have? The one that says "Thou shalt not kill." PERIOD. Not "Thou shalt not kill, unless they are muslim terrorists then thou shalt do it in my name." Or how about "Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord".
This is one of the most horrible things I've ever heard come out of the religious right. That we have to kill in the name of the Lord. Not that we didn't suspect they felt that way all along, but for someone of Falwell's prominence to come out and say it plainly on CNN is staggering.
Its almost like they've dug their own hole and then knocked themselves out with the shovel.
Thoughts?
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