I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
first?
I bet the Daily Howler's brainhas exploded by now.
How do we fix this?
"If we hated freedom we would have attacked Sweden"
-OBL
how will Chimpy spin that?
I was struck by how eloquent OBL was. It is easy to see how became such powerful leader.
Now let's get him, once and for all.
-
I'm not normally into media criticism. I normally think you should just assume the media is biased towards Bush and move on.
But even I was shocked at how hard they were spinning the tape for Bush.
I honestly think they're genuinely scared (since most live in New York or DC) and genuinely subject to Bush's authoritarian appeal.
We've come a long, long way from Robert Capa on the beach at Normandy and George Orwell in Spain.
We've got a bunch of chickenshit yuppies wetting their pants at the first sign of the bogeyman.
I honestly think the American people are less likely to freak out about this tape than Christ Mathews and the rest of them.
They really are sniveling little cowards.
The fact that Osama was able to create this video and seemingly regain his health after going into hiding for almost 3 years should convict this Bush Administration for their lack of insight and focus on the real source of the current war on Terror. Bin Laden wants to create a world Jihad....Saddam was a secular tyrant who had little control or ability to do what Bin Laden wants, conduct a fiery jihad on the US and destroy us. The answer lies in Kerry's desire to re-unite the world to defeat Bin Laden and his mininons. I believe he can with persistance and vision do what Bush failed to do
I was struck by how eloquent OBL was. It is easy to see how became such powerful leader.
And Ted Bundy was a charming guy and Jim Jones was able to gather a whole cult around him via the force of his words.
Psychopathic killers talk a good game.
But that hardly means that anything he says makes any sense or is even orginal. Think about why exactly he mentioned the My Pet Goat book.
He's saying whatever he thinks will get him the most attention.
Sixth?
Oh, I guess I should read Atrios' words before commenting, huh?
The fact that Osama was able to create this video and seemingly regain his health after going into hiding for almost 3 years should convict this Bush Administration for their lack of insight and focus on the real source of the current war on Terror. Bin Laden wants to create a world Jihad....Saddam was a secular tyrant who had little control or ability to do what Bin Laden wants, conduct a fiery jihad on the US and destroy us. The answer lies in Kerry's desire to re-unite the world to defeat Bin Laden and his mininons. I believe he can with persistance and vision do what Bush failed to do
You know, I don't own and almost never view a television. But I was at a friend's house last night and surfed for a couple of hours. What an utterly flabbergasting experience!
I could hardly believe the numbskulled level of "debate" at all those usual-suspect television pundit-perches I keep reading about online, but seldom experience firsthand. No wonder the TV-"informed" public is in such sad shape! I was screaming at that toxic, pernicious yapping box the whole time, and that was enough of a dose to hold me for another year or two.
It's difficult enough to maintain sanity in these moronic times without subjecting oneself to that cathode-ray crap, and I highly recommend unplugging the damnable thing.
SWR
hit the nail on the head...chickenshit yuppies who can only talk and now are scared...it's like kids flippin you off in their cars and you get out and walk up to them at the next light and they shit themselves....hiding in front of a camera or computer gives them false security
The media is apparently incapable, at present, of reporting the election as anything but a horse race. Issues are meaningless; facts and lies are meaningless. All that matters is the horse race.
The "Pundits" have reacted to Osama as if he were a rival "Pundit" to be contradicted. Fox and CNN give Bin Laden more credibility than they give Mehlman.
Couldn't have agreed more, Atrios. Who gives a fig?
"If we hated freedom we would have attacked Sweden"
-OBL
"Thank you! Try the veal! I'm here all
week"
What I don't understand about the media's take on this is, if I was going to vote for Kerry before this tape, and now decide to vote for Bush because "Bin Laden wants us to vote for Kerry", how am I not letting Bin Laden tell me who to vote for? Even if they are right, which I doubt. Why I should even care what the SOB wants is the bigger question, of course.
OBL's message is clear:
Stop your attacks on us and we'll stop ours on you. No free people with backbone would take your crap sitting down.
Michael Moore was right about Bush.
As things stand, Kerry is just as big a threat to our security as Bush or Clinton.
GET YOUR GOVERNMENT UNDER CONTROL!!
1) 9/11 happened on Bush's watch 2) Bush has not yet caught Bin Laden perhaps because he 3) switched his attention to Iraq where 4) we have contributed to the terrorist threat against us in numerous tragic ways, not to mention suffering more U.S. casualties (dead and injured) than we absorbed in 9/11.
Exactamundo.
What is so complicated about this that the media doesn't fucking understand?
The fact that Osama was able to create this video and seemingly regain his health after going into hiding for almost 3 years should convict this Bush Administration for their lack of insight and focus on the real source of the current war on Terror.
What is missing in the media analysis of the bin Laden tape is the fact that bin Laden now has far more credibility and mass appeal amongst Muslims in the middle east than he did pre-Iraq. The problem as I see it is not that bin Laden still lives; my problem is that we have created conditions in which sociopaths like bin Laden have credibility and can push opaque and totalitarian agendas through much more easily due to the rage of mainstream populations. Just as Bush was able to use 9-11 for his own, unrevealed purposes, bin Laden is effectively using rage against the bloodshed in Iraq to amass undeserved credibility. That's the problem; it's not sociopaths like bin Laden; it is the fact that via Bushism, moderate populations are now more receptive to his message. If our media had any shred of responsibility, this truism would be widely noted.
Working in retail from sunny California today and most people don't think the sky is falling because of the OBL tape. Why do the pundits whip themselves into a frenzy over such nonsense?
as someone who has spent sometime in advertising here's what i learned- IMAGE- it matters not a flip what this tape means as if the ignorant masses will analyze; rove & co know the IMAGE will stay in their little heads, its why you CRAVE a certain candy bar, and it is this IMAGE they will see when confronted by the anxiety of voting- they do not pay people millions of $$ to get this wrong.
goldengreek
clean up your own backyard first then come back and see how we're doing
Indeed, A-man. I e-mailed all the Kool Kids last night, but wasn't as eloquent you..
Posted it last night, but here iy is again:
Dear Media,
Once again you step up to the plate for your chance to hit a grand slam for the President. As you gather together and exchange talking points on how to spin the latest Osama bin Laden tape, the first one in two years and released a mere four days before the most important election our lives, I see that you're constantly reminding us that America trusts the President to keep us safer and better fight the war on terror than Senator John Kerry, according to polls. Because of this, you surmise that the appearance of this tape will, most likely help Bush when we go Novenber 2 to elect a President.
Since you're wondering who it will help and surmising it will be Bush, do you think you could also wonder why bin Laden is even free, seemingly healthy and creating tapes for you to discuss? Didn't this president claim that he'd bring back OBL "dead or alive", that he "would smoke him out", that "he could run, but not hide" (obviously a favorite bluster of Bush's) and later that he "didn't think about (him) and wasn't that concerned with him"? Perhaps while you remind your viewers of poll numbers that America trusts Bush more than Kerry, you can remind them of Bush's failed efforts to bring to justice the man who committed the largest terrorist act on American soil. You could rhetorically ask, "Why IS Osama bin Laden even still alive?"
As it is now, it appears you're, as usual, just shilling for the President.
Sincerely,
(personal shit here)
I urge other Eshatonians to fire off e-mails of your own....screw the media and the kneepads they fellate Bushco on!!
OBL's message is clear:
Stop your attacks on us and we'll stop ours on you. No free people with backbone would take your crap sitting down.
I'm not quite sure why people don't understand this.
Bin Laden is a mass murderer, an egotist, a sociopath just like Ted Bundy or Manson.
Everything he says is pure bullshit to justify his will to power and attention.
As I said, think about why he mentioned "My Pet Goat". He was saying what he though would get him the most attention. If you think he cares about the Palestinians or the Arab people or genuinely hates American foreign policy, you're basically the poor dumb bimbo hypnotized by Dracula's stare.
Anybody can say anything. Remember that.
I was struck by how eloquent OBL was.
...This is the Bush effect. One gets used to having low expectations.
"If we hated freedom we would have attacked Sweden"
-OBL
That reminds me of when Bush told a senator in a room full of people that Sweden was a neutral country and didn't have an army. The senator tried to correct him in a gentle way but Bush insisted, mistaking Sweden for Switzerland. Then, the room fell silent and then someone changed the subject. Dumbfuck...
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While I'm not a NYC yuppie, I found myself strangely calm while viewing the tape. The pundits are paid to be hysterical nitwits. All I can hope for is to not be on the wrong subway car.
The odds of being killed by a terrorist are remarkably slim, something the "pundits" have completely swept under the carpet.
SWR
hit the nail on the head...chickenshit yuppies who can only talk and now are scared...it's like kids flippin you off in their cars and you get out and walk up to them at the next light and they shit themselves....hiding in front of a camera or computer gives them false security
I think we basically have to count on the American people being smarter than the media. If they are, Kerry wins. If they aren't, Bush wins. It's as simple as that. If we can't think critically, we'll get Bush, and we deserve him.
"If we hated freedom we would have attacked Sweden"
-OBL
In all seriousness, doesn't anybody
else think this is funny? By which
I mean deliberately funny.
Since when do psychopaths have a
highly developed sense of humor and
irony?
Hannibal Lechter excepted because he's
fictional.
Who did Tim McVeigh want to be president?
As I said, think about why he mentioned "My Pet Goat". He was saying what he though would get him the most attention. If you think he cares about the Palestinians or the Arab people or genuinely hates American foreign policy, you're basically the poor dumb bimbo hypnotized by Dracula's stare.
Anybody can say anything. Remember that.
SWR
I agree 100%. Charles Manson had "reasons" for his murder of a pregnant woman also. The real problem is when we create a situation in which the sociopath has credibility. That is the true danger of Bushism and the war in Iraq. It has set conditions for bin Laden to garner credibility where otherwise he would have none.
Listen carefully Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, and Bill O’Reilly:
A TRAITOR is not someone who hates America.
A TRAITOR is someone who causes others to hate America.
The Republican Party’s mismanagement of the economy has hurt many, many people. But there is one thing that the Republicans under George Bush have done that is politically unforgivable in America. They have profoundly damaged our reputation around the world.
Right after Nine Eleven, Americans were viewed with great affection and sympathy everywhere on the planet. Now, an unprecedented amount of hatred is being expressed for America, not just by a few lunatic radicals, but by nations that had always seen us as friends, previously. How did it happen? It’s simple, really. People hate that which they fear.
In his tenure as President, George Bush has managed to cause people all over the world---who once respected and admired America---to fear us. When President Bush told the world that America couldn’t wait for the weapons inspectors to find WMD, that he was sending our army into Iraq whether the rest of the world approved or not, it scared them to death.
Over many decades, America had enhanced its reputation in the world by being kind and generous and by showing that we were a thoughtful participant in the world community. Other nations were reassured by the fact that we always seemed quite reluctant to go to war. They did not fear such a nation.
Under the leadership of George W. Bush, that has changed dramatically. Now the world can’t stop thinking about Abu Ghraib and George Bush’s phony justifications for invading a country that was not an immediate threat to us.
George Bush had his chance to do things in our name that would make us feel proud to be Americans. We now know that he is clueless. He may sincerely want to protect America in his own blundering way, but we can’t afford any more of his mind-boggling incompetence.
If you have not joined the George Bush Cult and want to see America respected and admired in the world again, vote for John Kerry on November 2nd. Do it to save America’s reputation.
James J. Kroeger
www.taxwisdom.org
watertiger
stay strong...I don't live in NYC or DC but I can feel that "wrong subway car" thing.....just don't let the fear cripple you let it strengthen you....work out, take EMT classes and if you are on the "lucky car" maybe you can save someone on the "unlucky" one.....lame I know but I just had to say I feel ya
Since when do psychopaths have a
highly developed sense of humor and
irony?
Ted Bundy was able to charm a lot of women, wasn't he?
Manson was able to gather a cult of followers.
Jim Jones and David Koresh also.
Most people are subject to the influence of an authoritarian personality.
Arabs aren't the exception. They're just like us (which obviously includes Arab Americans etc. etc.).
I'm simply not impressed by his mentioning of Sweden or My Pet Goat. He's not saying anything original. He's parrotting stuff from the media. He's not leading. He's following.
Can you imagine Lincoln or Gandi following the headlines? Come on. Don't you drink the KoolAid too.
Goldengreek, yes, and the last piece of his message was:
"Bush, you are a big pussy who got your job through your father, you big pussy."
That is why Bush was all constipated and doing his blinking thing when he addressed the tape yesterday -- that's his mega hot button, and the supervillian just pushed it in front of the world.
But as the sage atrios says, who gives a shit what this guy thinks, and lets not parse his messages as if he were sane -- he is not. And he should be dead by now. Stone cold dead. If ever in this world there was a time for righteous vengeance, this is that time.
I take Kerry at his word when he says that he will hunt this guy down and kill him and all his cohorts on behalf of me and my family, and for more than any other reason that is why I am voting for him on tuesday (but far from the only reason). If Kerry wins and this guy isn't out of the picture by July, I swear to god I'll pull the lever for Jeb in 08.
JFK, don't let me down!!!
-
people are sheep
Can we create BlogTV to counter this media whores?
Since when do psychopaths have a
highly developed sense of humor and
irony?
...I think it's natural to assumed bin Laden is a psychopath, but I don't think it's accurate. He is a brutal enemy that must be stopped, but assuming he's afflicted with some mental condition will probably cause you to underestimate him. I am content to call him fanatical, but I don't underestimate his resolve or his cunning. This is what angers me about Bush and Iraq. He's ignoring the tiger to pursue the mosquito.
I'm sorry, I don't buy it.
Radical firebrands controlling mass
movements are not famous for their
sense of humor.
Mao, Castro, Hitler, Saladin, Marat....
no jokebooks that I'm aware of.
Have you contacted your media whore today?
http://www.fair.org/media-contac...ntact-
list.html
Even more interestingly, because of the botched invasion of Iraq, the unsecured weapons sites, the looting of al Tuwaitha, al Qaqaa, and other locations, al Qaeda may now have the components needed to make a nuclear weapon, or at the very least, a radiological weapon ("dirty bomb").
I contacted seval print media whores last night. Woke up refreshed this morning.
I'm sorry, I don't buy it.
Radical firebrands controlling mass
movements are not famous for their
sense of humor.
Mao, Castro, Hitler, Saladin, Marat....
no jokebooks that I'm aware of.
That's because you don't know history well enough. Hitler used to mock Churchill and Roosevelt all the time with exactly the same kind of mano a mano taunts.
The Nazis also used to criticize the British class system.
Lyndon LaRouche criticizes Bush.
It's bullshit. It's pandering to get attention.
Islamists like Osama have the same problem my people once had. They seem to think that they have to do more than mouth platitudes about their theology. Thank Me, American fundementalists have moved beyond that. My followers know that the aquisition of lucre is far more important than any implementation of the words I wrote 2000 years.
Kerry Spot on NRO message for you lefty Bush hater: It's time for a look in the mirror.
"Over the last three years or so, we have seen that concept obliterated. We’ve seen a truly unparalleled deluge of criticism of the president that well beyond policy differences. He is tarred as a war criminal, a fool, an idiot, a warmonger, a man who trades blood for oil, a mass murderer of innocent civilians, a stooge of sinister corporate interests, a puppet of Cheney, a terrorist himself, the anti-Christ, the second coming of Hitler, a slave to Ariel Sharon, an anti-Muslim hatemonger… and I’m sure I’ve left out plenty.
The far left hates George W. Bush with a raging fury. So does al-Qaeda. Was it really so shocking that the rhetoric of the former would eventually be taken up by the latter?
No, this tape should cause many on the left to stare into the mirror for a long time and ask, “What have I turned into? How did I become so reflexively partisan, so blinded by rage, so intemperate in my rhetoric that my own arguments are being echoed by a man who planned and enjoyed the mass murder of Americans?”
“How the hell did I reach the point where I agree with Osama bin Laden on Bush?”
http://www.nationalreview.com/
ke...00410301440.asp
Friend,
Thanks for the thoughts. I don't really think about getting killed as much as I used to, although low-flying planes pique my curiosity more than they used to. And if I may, as I am wont to do, quote "The Odd Couple":
Felix: It's alright, Oscar. Love has made me strong.
Oscar: Yes, but strength has made him stronger.
Think about this before you cast your vote.
Look at the following list of names and consider who they would most likely vote for if they were allowed to vote in our coming election,
Martin Luther King
Abraham Lincoln
Thomas Jefferson
Benjamin Franklin
Thomas Paine
Gandhi
Eleanor Roosevelt
Robert Kennedy
Nelson Mandela
Bishop Tutu
The Lorax
When you cast your vote will you be voting the same way as you think the above people will vote?
How closely aligned with these people will you be
Mao, Castro, Hitler, Saladin, Marat....
That's an odd list, btw.
Hitler was a psychopathic mass murderer.
Castro's a authoritarian dictator but not necessarily a mass murderer.
Mao was a mass murderer but his ruthlessness had a method (unlike Hitlers) which was to keep power.
Salidin was hardly a mass murderer by the standards of the day. In fact, he was less of one than Richard the Lionhearted or the leaders of the First Crusade.
Marat took one too many baths.....
"Since when do psychopaths have a
highly developed sense of humor and
irony?"
Like Bush, for example. Of course, he's more of a sociopath, but still - no sense of irony.
He is a brutal enemy that must be stopped, but assuming he's afflicted with some mental condition will probably cause you to underestimate him.
I think he's clearly sociopathic; that only heightens his dangerousness as he is capable of nearly anything. The real issue is the fact that this particular sociopath now has an increased credibility and an increased ability to tap into the rage of otherwise moderate populations to achieve a sick and totalitarian agenda.
I think it's a mistake to decide that the tanned and rested OBL is a reasonable human. He might be able to muster the appearance of rationality. All that "We never DREAMED Bush would allow us to kill all those people" nonsense.
In no way do I wish to absolve Bush of his culpability in all this. (I don't think we should assume Bush is a reasonable human, either.)ut let's not forget: "crazy" or not, OBL is more than just a formidable foe. He's a sick fanatic.
I agree with Atrios that trying to figure out just how OBL hopes the election turns out is a waste of time.
"This is what angers me about Bush and Iraq. He's ignoring the tiger to pursue the mosquito."
A relentless moquito can bring down a tiger... eventually.
Bush should have gone for the mosquito, but with a big can of well-aimed pesticide and not a shotgun (shock and awe). Unfortunately, he seems unwilling/unable to wield an arm as uncool as a spray can. Maybe he thinks it is not manly enough.
"This is what angers me about Bush and Iraq. He's ignoring the tiger to pursue the mosquito."
A relentless mosquito can bring down a tiger... eventually.
Bush should have gone for the mosquito, but with a big can of well-aimed pesticide and not a shotgun (shock and awe). Unfortunately, he seems unwilling/unable to wield an arm as uncool as a spray can. Maybe he thinks it is not manly enough.
Oops, hiccup!
"Since when do psychopaths have a
highly developed sense of humor and
irony?"
Like Bush, for example. Of course, he's more of a sociopath, but still - no sense
of irony.
wolf-man | Email | Homepage
Thank you -- exactly my point. Hitler
wasn't funny. He may have made quote
jokes unquote but he wasn't funny.
The Osama Sweden crack is funny.
I find this worrisome.....b
I think he's clearly sociopathic; that only heightens his dangerousness as he is capable of nearly anything.
Part of the reason we think he's "eloquent" is our own racism.
Yeah, he mentioned some things in the popular media.
Of Dietrich Von Terrorist of the Red Brigades or Patrick O Mail Bomber of the IRA had said the same things, we wouldn't have been suprised at all.
Since they're white.
But an Arab (who's from a wealthy family and who's had the opportunity to travel) shows some familiarity with the western world and we're all suprised.
The Bush is strong on terror meme is such a mind-f*ck.
Here's a list of some sociopathic traits. I got chills thinking how they seem to apply to Bush. You decide if Bush fits any or all of them:
* Glibness/Superficial Charm
Language can be used without effort by them to confuse and convince their audience. Captivating storytellers that exude self-confidence, they can spin a web that intrigues others. Since they are persuasive, they have the capacity to destroy their critics verbally or emotionally.
* Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They dominate and humiliate their victims.
* Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right." Craves adulation and attendance. Must be the center of attention with their own fantasies as the "spokesman for God," "enlightened," "leader of humankind," etc. Creates an us-versus-them mentality
* Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and able to pass lie detector tests.
* Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.
* Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion, it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.
* Incapacity for Love
While they talk about "God's love" they are unable to give or receive it. Since they do not believe in the genuineness of their followers' love, they are very harsh in testing it from their devotees and expect them to feel guilt for their failings. Expects unconditional surrender.
Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile
* Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.
* Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blame their followers or others outside their group. Blame reinforces passivity and obedience and produces guilt, shame, terror and conformity in the followers.
My kiss-off to Big Media: 'What You Are'
A relentless moquito can bring down a tiger... eventually.
Speaking from personal experience, a fucking mosquito can take me down in seconds.
I HATE MOSQUITOS!
The far left hates George W. Bush with a raging fury. So does al-Qaeda. Was it really so shocking that the rhetoric of the former would eventually be taken up by the latter?
Idiocy in action. So basically, Richard Head is implying that Al Quaeda is a "liberal" organization. Richard, you are quite sick in your willingness to convert a real threat from a newly strengthened group of terrorists into a cheap partisan issue. Al Quaeda does not merely hate Bush. Al Quaeda is willing to murder any number of Americans irrespective of the national leadership (remember Clinton's warnings of the threat Al Quaeda presented and his proactive attempts to engage Al Quaeda?). Al Quaeda is using the rage of large populations to push a fanatical and totalitarian agenda. Because of Bush's Iraqi machinations, Al Quaeda has now seen an increase in credibility and membership. Thus, there is an increased threat to the United States. How this turns into "Al Quaeda hates Bush" is unclear, but you should be ashamed of your willingness to turn threats from a group who have already killed thousands of civilians on US soil into mere partisanship.
You'll notice that wolf-man's accurate
summary of psychopathic tendencies
does not include "good at one-liners."
Ridge out with his propaganda talking about the terrorist threat and response to the tapes.
Nagourney story is unbalanced to say it helps Bush. How to know. NO one knwos. LATimes is more even-handed.
The worse problem we have is sociopaths like Bush, Cheney, Rummy, etc.
Where did Osama film this video, the Hilton in Riyad?
"Marat took one too many baths....."
Heh. But the result was a beautiful painting!
SWR, I do agree with your comment, though. I read a book about the crusades and I found myself rooting for Saladin. Those crusaders were a bunch of really sick bastards.
Whether OBL is a psychopath or not is not so interesting. How he is perceived, and will be perceived, in the muslim world is far more important.
Actually, the big message for the media is, "Osama's doing this to polish his own credentials as leader and hero of the worldwide Islamist movement. It's not about us. It's all about him. Paying attention to him, fretting about his effect on the election, is what he wants."
But an Arab (who's from a wealthy family and who's had the opportunity to travel) shows some familiarity with the western world and we're all suprised.
SWR
I'm not calling bin Laden eloquent or anything else; I am expressing my alarm that a clear sociopath now has increased credibility to advance a totalitarian and insane agenda. What does race have to do with that?
Relevant book on terrorism:
WASP, by Eric Frank Russell. Terrific
50s sci-fi that's virtually a manual
for how one individual can strike
terror into an empire.
Sound familiar. Here's Hitler trying to justify himself by calling Churchill a warmonger (note: I'm not saying Bush is the equivalent of Churchill or Osama of Hitler):
The man behind this fanatical and diabolical plan to bring about war at whatever cost was Mr. Churchill. His associates were the men who now form the British Government.
These endeavors received most powerful support, both openly and secretly, from the so-called great democracies on both sides of the Atlantic. At a time when the people were more and more dissatisfied with their deficient statesmanship, the responsible men over there believed that a successful war would be the most likely means of solving problems that otherwise would be beyond their power to solve.
Behind these men there stood the great international Jewish financial interests that control the banks and the Stock Exchange as well as the armament industry. And now, just as before, they scented the opportunity of doing their unsavory business. And so, just as before, there was no scruple about sacrificing the blood of the peoples. That was the beginning of this war. A few weeks later the State that was the third country in Europe, Poland, but had been reckless enough to allow herself to be used for the financial interests of these warmongers, was annihilated and destroyed.
In these circumstances I considered that I owed it to our German people and countless men and women in the opposite camps, who as individuals were as decent as they were innocent of blame, to make yet another appeal to the common sense and the conscience of these statesmen. On October 6, 1939, I therefore once more publicly stated that Germany had neither demanded nor intended to demand anything either from Britain or from France, that it was madness to continue the war and, above all, that the scourge of modern weapons of warfare, once they were brought into action, would inevitably ravage vast territories.
But just as the appeal I made on September 1, 1939, proved to be in vain, this renewed appeal met with indignant rejection. The British and their Jewish capitalist backers could find no other explanation for this appeal, which I had made on humanitarian grounds, than the assumption of weakness on the part of Germany.
We are on track for historic turnout in this election. Voters are coming out in record numbers for John Kerry.
And that has the Republicans scared. They have no plan, no hope, no way to win this election except to stop people from voting. Their strategy is simple:
1.Discourage Democratic voters from going to the polls by filling the airwaves with predictions of doom and gloom.
2.Delay voting and create lines at polls by challenging voters and election officials.
3.Deny voters the opportunity to cast their votes and have them counted.
But their strategy won't work. We will stop their attempts to deny our rights by using the best weapons in our arsenal: information and education.
It's vital that you know your voting rights. Take a minute today to make sure that others know their rights, too. Download our guide to voting rights:
http://www.democrats.org/votingrights/
Make sure to print out multiple copies and help us spread the word by distributing them as widely as you can.
For information about finding your polling place, use our polling place locator at Democrats.org:
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Remember: Voting is your right, and you are protected under the law. Exercise your right by voting for John Kerry, John Edwards, and all our Democratic candidates on November 2!
Where did Osama film this video, the Hilton in Riyad?
Damn good question.
I've thought for a long time that OBL is in a 'safe' country, well beyond Commander Smoke-em-out's reach.
He would not have survived for three years if he was 'in a cave somewhere,' like Bush kept repeating.
I wouldn't be surprised if he was back with the family at this point - which would lead me to believe that Bush has known where he's been all this time.
I am expressing my alarm that a clear sociopath now has increased credibility to advance a totalitarian and insane agenda. What does race have to do with that?
It has a lot to do with the people who are saying things like "Osama seems to make more sense than Bush".
There's an incredibly patronizing quality to it.
Once again, imagine an Irish or an Italian or a German terrorist had made the same crack about My Pet Goat or Sweden.
We would have mocked him, not said "wow this guy is clever".
I've thought for a long time that OBL is in a 'safe' country, well beyond Commander Smoke-em-out's reach
...I don't think we know within 1000 miles where bin Laden is. My personal guess: Iran.
I wouldn't be surprised if he was back with the family at this point - which would lead me to believe that Bush has known where he's been all this time.
Which would explain the visceral reaction Bush has to the appearance of the tape -- he worries that each time a tape surfaces, it's going to indict him.
"The far left hates George W. Bush with a raging fury. So does al-Qaeda. Was it really so shocking that the rhetoric of the former would eventually be taken up by the latter?"
I think it is laughable that Bin Forgotten uses arguments from the American left. He's been listening in on your debates and now you are chastising your fellow-countrymen for it instead of mister copy cat.
You should form a united front against this threat, even when you are adversaries in other fields, and not let OBL divide you any further. You are playing into his hands.
...I don't think we know within 1000 miles where bin Laden is. My personal guess: Iran.
And I'm sure you're going to here this a lot from Bush and his people if he wins re-election.
There's your justification for going into Iran.
When 9-11 first happened and the screams of "Kill all the Muslims" started up (I'm in Texas), I was villified by some of my acquaintances for asking this simple question:
How did Bin Laden convince all those people to follow him? What did he say? What has America done that was used against us in the Arab world?
I was never trying to excuse Bin Laden and Al Qaida (I don't believe there is any excuse for murder). What I wanted to understand was what led 20 men to give up their lives just to "give America a black eye"? Why did they hate us so? Why did they think we deserved it?
And it never mattered to them whether we actually deserved it or not, whether Bin Laden was crazy or not: our reputation in the Arab world is so bad that Bin Laden has enough ammunition against us to pull off shit like this.
That needs to change. Because even if Bin Laden dies at this very moment, the bad rep and the hate and the ammunition against America will still be there. We have to root out the cause of that rep and counter it: If it's based on lies, we counter it with the truth. If it's based on actual policy, we need to change the policy.
I want to see Bin Laden and the others brought to justice, one way or another. But more that that, I want to cut off the legs off Al Qaida and let it die; I want to starve this beast that runs around the Arab world and feeds on hatred of America.
Because until we do that, another Bin Laden will be able to convince another 20 young men that America deserves another "punch in the nose."
I think it is laughable that Bin Forgotten uses arguments from the American left.
Silly. Mentioning Lebanon hardly means he's been listening to the ideas of the American Left.
The last time I checked Osama wasn't in favor of gay marriage or socialized medicine.
His appeal is to religious fundamentalism. His people in Afghanistan were originally funded by the American right, by Ronald Reagan.
If anything, he's close to Bush than to Kerry.
You'll notice that wolf-man's accurate
summary of psychopathic tendencies
does not include "good at one-liners."
Proving once again that Henny Youngman was no sociopath/psychopath.
Do the American people trust the man who can't find Osama bin Laden, the executioner of more than 3,000 innocent American citizens? Do they trust someone who thought erroneously that Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11? Do they trust the man that was actually in charge when the 9/11 attacks happened? Do they trust a man that left ammuntion sites and nuclear sites unguarded and unlocked for the insurgents to plunder? Do they trust a combat-dodger rather than a volunteer for combat? It's just not possible. The American people are not stupid or in denial enough to prolong this travesty of American ideals and principles. Americans are loyal and wanted to give Bush a chance to prove he was right when he acted in their behalf but he has gone too far. The destruction in Iraq, the loss of life and limb of our brave soldiers, the growing animosity for the United States throughout the world, the list is endless of the disgrace and calumny brought down on us by this bumbling, arrogant and unapologetic man. The buck stops with Bush. Stop him now
Do the American people trust the man who can't find Osama bin Laden, the executioner of more than 3,000 innocent American citizens? Do they trust someone who thought erroneously that Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11? Do they trust the man that was actually in charge when the 9/11 attacks happened? Do they trust a man that left ammuntion sites and nuclear sites unguarded and unlocked for the insurgents to plunder? Do they trust a combat-dodger rather than a volunteer for combat? It's just not possible. The American people are not stupid or in denial enough to prolong this travesty of American ideals and principles. Americans are loyal and wanted to give Bush a chance to prove he was right when he acted in their behalf but he has gone too far. The destruction in Iraq, the loss of life and limb of our brave soldiers, the growing animosity for the United States throughout the world, the list is endless of the disgrace and calumny brought down on us by this bumbling, arrogant and unapologetic man. The buck stops with Bush. Stop him now
You'll notice that wolf-man's accurate
summary of psychopathic tendencies
does not include "good at one-liners
I don't find Osama funny. Stormfront posts racist cartoons that I'm sure cracks the typical skinhead up. If you find a mass murderer in a schoolyard pissing contest with Bush funny, I'd suggest you examine yourself.
I wasn't looking at that tape and laughing. You were?
This is nothing.
Matt Rexroad, political director for the CA Assembly and Senate Republicans, has this post:
New endorsement for John Kerry
Osama Bin Laden (D - Pakistan)
posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 9:58 AM
“How the hell did I reach the point where I agree with Osama bin Laden on Bush?”
Because Bush is a coward and an incompetent leader who let Osama escape. Bush in fact deserves Osama, because they are of the same ilk, with the major difference that Osama is a more competent leader than Bush ever will be. They're both callous murderers and deserve similar fates. Why should I have any more respect for Bush than Osama? Because he's American? Because he's not Muslim? He certainly was never elected as President. Being appointed by the Supreme Court does not qualify as deserving of respect. A better man would have refused to be appointed under questionable circumstances, and at the very least would have let the election go the constitutional path of being decided in Congress. Bush is a lesser man. Bush is a coward. Bush is illegitimate. Bush has far more blood on his hands than Osama. 100,000 dead Iraqis, mostly civilians. Bush is a tyrant. He is a pathetic little man who puts himself before his country. Bush is not a patriot. He is a vicious traitor who waged a war of aggression. Bush hatred? How about disgust.
I haven't read more than the excerpts printed yesterday, but I found it interesting after the years of denial in the Arab world that bin Laden was behind 9/11 -- while simultaneously admiring him for the hit we took on 9/11 -- that he unambiguously took credit for it in this tape.
I think Bin Laden's playing to HIS base. I think he's telling his followers not to worry if the most perfect patsy a jihadist could have asked Allah for is replaced by somebody competent, knowledgeable, and decisive.
And if he shakes up some infidels in the bargain, so much the better.
But that's just me...
And it never mattered to them whether we actually deserved it or not, whether Bin Laden was crazy or not: our reputation in the Arab world is so bad that Bin Laden has enough ammunition against us to pull off shit like this.
That needs to change. Because even if Bin Laden dies at this very moment, the bad rep and the hate and the ammunition against America will still be there. We have to root out the cause of that rep and counter it: If it's based on lies, we counter it with the truth. If it's based on actual policy, we need to change the policy.
I want to see Bin Laden and the others brought to justice, one way or another. But more that that, I want to cut off the legs off Al Qaida and let it die; I want to starve this beast that runs around the Arab world and feeds on hatred of America.
Thank you for actually analyzing the real implications of Al Quaeda and asking the tough questions. If Manson was able to convince a good segment of Californians that a race war with murder as its engine was a good idea, we would go beyond noting the sociopathology of Manson and begin asking why a sociopath has a credulous audience. Whether we can counter propaganda and misinformation fed by Al Quaeda, or pursue policies which do not include wars like the war in Iraq, we need to begin to dismantle Al Quaeda's credibility amongst moderate populations.
What has America done that was used against us in the Arab world?
Bin Sultan Air Base. A foothold for The Infidel in their Holy Land.
One of OBL's demands to the US was that they get their military out of Saudi - to which we have since capitulated.
In fact, Bush has given OBL all he wanted, and more. And he tells this country that we're winning?
I think it is laughable that Bin Forgotten uses arguments from the American left.
...It's not just the rhetoric of the American left. It's the rhetoric of thinking people world wide.
It's not just the rhetoric of the American left. It's the rhetoric of thinking people world wide.
Falstaff | Email | Homepage | 10.30.04 - 4:11 pm | #
It's not my rhetoric and I'm both a thinking person and a person of the American left.
So please count me out of your little party. OK?
Well according to a Newsweek poll, Bush is gaining from the OBL tape, up to six points.
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/
...=top_world_news
Of course realizing this the WH is playing up the "threat" issue of the tape for all they can get, even though OBL's message was essentially 'don't mess with us and we won't mess with you, deal?'
Government urges increased vigilance in wake of bin Laden tape
http://www.wqad.com/Global/story...y.asp?
S=2501261
These guys make me want to puke.
Well according to a Newsweek poll, Bush is gaining from the OBL tape, up to six points.
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/
...=top_world_news
Why don't you tell me where that same Newsweek poll had Bush last week?
I think we have to add the "Leftist Who Agrees With Bin Laden on Bush" troll to the "Concerned over the Polls" trolls.
Just saying.
"Silly. Mentioning Lebanon hardly means he's been listening to the ideas of the American Left.
The last time I checked Osama wasn't in favor of gay marriage or socialized medicine."
I said 'arguments' not 'ideas'. I believe OBL is playing both to the American and his own audiences.
He did the same thing to us Europeans with his truce video. He used arguments that are supposed to appeal both to us and his followers in an attempt to create or deepen divisions in our societies.
He is following our debates and uses them for inspiration for his propaganda.
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I said 'arguments' not 'ideas'. I believe OBL is playing both to the American and his own audiences.
Osama is a religious fundamentalist. That makes him similar to the American right, not the American left.
Yeah, David Duke talks about the Palestinians and condemns the war in Iraqalso. Are you going to admit you agree with David Duke?
Come on. I dare you.
"Where did Osama film this video, the Hilton in Riyad?"
Carlyle Group headquarters. They've got kick-ass production facilities there.
I'll Take Sweden.
If it's all the same to you, Mr. E, I'll Cancel My Reservation.
OBL is hiding out as a hired hand on the bush ranch. He maintains the mountain bike trails, plants bush for shrub to cut, etc.
We would have mocked him, not said "wow this guy is clever".
No, it's funny (sad) when OBL tells it just as it's funny (sad) when Michael Moore tells it. Bush has painted OBL as derranged wildman, the personification of evil, who hates freedom, etc. Yet he sounds more coherent than Bush himself. That rehtorical point he scores alone makes him clever, no matter if its all contrived or not.
The point is, they are kicking our ass under GWB. OBL is free to mock him and is free to influence our election. We have been defeated in Iraq for all intents and purposes when you compare the rhetoric and 'goals' going in to the reality now. We look weaker to the rest of the world than we have since vietnam. Our allies do not trust us. And we are hated in much of the world. And GWB is the best AQ recruitment poster boy OBL could ever have.
OBL has attacked America and prevailed. He appars now to be a credible leader in the war against imperialist America. He gets an A- on 9/11 and its aftermath, GWB and the USA get a d- if not an F.
Osama is a religious fundamentalist. That makes him similar to the American right, not the American left.
I think that the point Non Tibi Spiro is trying to make is that bin Laden used rhetoric gleaned from leftist criticisms of Bush to widen the suspicion and venom that conservatives do maintain towards liberals. You can't dismiss his/her point, because as Richard Head's post upthread illustrates, the tactic just might have worked amongst some rabid partisans.
I love how everyone in the media speaks with such conviction on the basis of only 5 minutes of an 18 minute tape.
hmm. I think it is obvious that Osama Bin Laden. who is nobody's fool, has correctly read the US hysteria and hopes his comments, injected into this electoral season, help Bush. After all, Bush is good news for him: he has inflamed anti-american hatred the world over, he has helped recruit lots of new members to Al Qaida and terrorism, whether out of fundamentalist islamic values or simply Iraqi/arabic nationalism against an invading superpower on a "crusade" to defeat Islam. Bush is the best news for Al Qaida and he can't be hoping Kerry will win, which might mean international cooperation against himself and his allies.
No, it's funny (sad) when OBL tells it just as it's funny (sad) when Michael Moore tells it. ,/i>
No. you thought it was funny. I didn't. Why not speak for yourself?
OBL has attacked America and prevailed. He appars now to be a credible leader in the war against imperialist America.
To whom? Not to me. Tell me who thinks he's "credible" so I can avoid them in the future.
No, this tape should cause many on the left to stare into the mirror for a long time and ask, “What have I turned into? How did I become so reflexively partisan, so blinded by rage, so intemperate in my rhetoric that my own arguments are being echoed by a man who planned and enjoyed the mass murder of Americans?”
“How the hell did I reach the point where I agree with Osama bin Laden on Bush?”
Richard Head
Sorry SWR, but this is clear evidence of Non Tibi Spiro's point that bin Laden has taken advantage of existing divisions effectively.
I propose that we have much more to lose if we pursue the idiotic reactionary war on terrorists....Killing OBL or ?? or thousands of suspected terrorists will not solve anything in the long run. Ultimately the balance between us and the Islamic world must find new equilibrium through policy change and not through the use of military force. Just ask the Israelis if force
is working for them.
The truth is it's easier for the flea to bite the elephant than for the elephant to bite the flea.
What if we stopped supporting undemocratic regimes in in the middle east and insisted that Israel pull back to the green line, introduced serious energy conservation in this country....
Is that more likely to bring meaningful peace ?
Or continue down the same arrogant path of war because we can't deal with the fact that we are extremely vulnerable....to getting bit by "fleas."
What do we really want ? Tell me.....
I think that the point Non Tibi Spiro is trying to make is that bin Laden used rhetoric gleaned from leftist criticisms of Bush to widen the suspicion and venom that conservatives do maintain towards liberals. You can't dismiss his/her point, because as Richard Head's post upthread illustrates, the tactic just might have worked amongst some rabid partisans.
In the sense that David Duke and Lyndon LaRouche criticize Bush's war in Iraq, I guess you're right.
But part of understanding any speech is looking at the motives of whoever is giving it. If you're fooled by Osama and think he's a credible opponent of American imperialism, I'd honestly rather not be on the same side as you are.
If you though that speech was in any way clever or coherent, you're insane.
Apply the same standards that you'd apply to Bush. Does Osama ever once express any remorse or regret that he's murdered thousands of people?
Oh yeah, he's clever all right. Blah.
In fact, Bush has given OBL all he wanted, and more. And he tells this country that we're winning?
Sigh. That bin Laden. Give 'im an inch, and he takes us hostage.
Speaking of if you're not with us, you're against us:
Bin Laden popping up like a malignant jack-in-the-box four days before the balloting may bolster John Kerry's argument that Bush should have finished wiping out Al Qaeda before turning his attention to Iraq.
But it also refocused the nation on terrorism, which polls show helps Bush. And it reminds voters of their horror on Sept. 11 and Bush's well-received response, as well as obliterating the recent flood of bad news for Bush.
"We want people to think 'terrorism' for the last four days," said a Bush-Cheney campaign official. "And anything that raises the issue in people's minds is good for us."
A senior GOP strategist added, "anything that makes people nervous about their personal safety helps Bush."
He called it "a little gift," saying it helps the President but doesn't guarantee his reelection.
Can you say "traitorous motherfuckers"???
Sorry SWR, but this is clear evidence of Non Tibi Spiro's point that bin Laden has taken advantage of existing divisions effectively.
GN | Email | Homepage | 10.30.04 - 4:27 pm | #
Really? Are John Kerry and John Edwards saying "oh well I think that if we only stopped supporting Israel Osama would leave us alone".
There's a very broad consensus on both sides in the United States that we should hunt Osama down and kill him. In fact, the "left" (if by "left" you mean John Kerry) has been pounding the issue of why we let Osama get away for weeks.
Maybe on Counterpunch Osama's making sense. But hardly among American liberals.
If you want to align OBL with the American right, that is fine by me. I am sure he doesn't care either way.
As you said: "I'm simply not impressed by his mentioning of Sweden or My Pet Goat. He's not saying anything original. He's parrotting stuff from the media."
It is about his rhetoric.
My initial point is still valid: You should form a united front against this threat, even when you are adversaries in other fields, and not let OBL divide you any further. You are playing into his hands that way. Whether you align him with the left or the right.
And, please, do not make me google David Duke again. He is an unknown entity here in Europe and, judging from his website, I would like to keep it that way.
Don't depend on mypollingplace.com. It's either a really stupid idea or part of the GOP vote suppression plan. I think it's a mistake to spread the url around.
Call your local election officials if you don't know where to vote.
The only reason we haven't been attacked again is because Osama bin Laden is free and alive.
Bush is keeping us safe by refusing to capture him. This is obvious.
This makes him a liar. This means he is dealing with terrorists to keep us from being attacked.
I think that if Kerry keeps his promise to kill bin Laden, we will be attacked within a year. I think that if Kerry maintains a military presence in Iraq, and leaves the 14 airbases intact, etc, we will continue to suffer casualties there. I think we are screwed royally.
One thing is certain--Bush took action when, after 9-11, the conventional wisdom said SOMETHING had to be done. We are in the shit now. Thanks to his incompetence, his utter lack of leadership and the failure of his subordinates to do the very least tasks sufficiently, the United States of America is in a Gordian knot so fast, so intricate and so well-tied, there's no way out.
Oh, and just to remind myself that I enjoy a First Amendment right of free speech: Fuck the troops. And fuck anyone who screeches about criticizing the job they've done. Sure, they've performed admirably--they're the best at what they do. But if what's driving this entire perverted debate is whether or not we can support the troops while simultaneously criticizing something like this, well, fuck THAT.
My initial point is still valid: You should form a united front against this threat, even when you are adversaries in other fields, and not let OBL divide you any further.
No. I think John Kerry should harshly criticize Bush on diverting resources from Al Qaeda to Iraq.
There's a very simple point here.
Do you focus the "war on terror" on Al Qaeda (the way John Kerry's suggesting) or do you say that a broader American military presence in the Arab world will stop terrorism (the way George Bush is arguing)?
Kerry was absolutely right and he shouldn't form a "united front" with the man who said that Osama was only a figurehead and that the real fight was with Saddam.
But part of understanding any speech is looking at the motives of whoever is giving it. If you're fooled by Osama and think he's a credible opponent of American imperialism, I'd honestly rather not be on the same side as you are.
SWR
Where are you getting this? I'd like to think I have never bought into the rantings of a sociopath with a lunatic agenda. But if that sociopath now enjoys a credibility that he/she would otherwise not have had, the situation is highly alarming and should not be ignored. Your rhetoric is approaching that of someone who believes that a war in Iraq critique is akin to a bin Laden apologist. Or that comments such as Richard Head's above do not reveal bin Laden's sad ability to play into the political pathologies of this country. You need to resist that temptation. I have said several times that the real issue is the credibility that bin Laden and Al Quaeda have amassed, due in part to the war in Iraq. That is an issue which must be discussed.
"Really? Are John Kerry and John Edwards saying "oh well I think that if we only stopped supporting Israel Osama would leave us alone".
There's a very broad consensus on both sides in the United States that we should hunt Osama down and kill him. In fact, the "left" (if by "left" you mean John Kerry) has been pounding the issue of why we let Osama get away for weeks."
That is exactly why I said his rhetoric is so laughable.
Folks,
Remember that we have only seen 5 minutes out of the entire 15 minutes of tape. We should be wondering what tidbits were left out, and WHY. Al Jazeera should release the whole damn thing.
It seems the "journalists" are following the Pretzelnut's lead on this matter. They don't read newspapers.
Unless the man in the tape of OBL has had nose surgery, it is not OBL in that supposed tape. Osame bin Laden's nose shape is entirely different from that of the man in the tape. Something devious is going on here.
Where are you getting this? I'd like to think I have never bought into the rantings of a sociopath with a lunatic agenda. But if that sociopath now enjoys a credibility that he/she would otherwise not have had, the situation is highly alarming and should not be ignored. Your rhetoric is approaching that of someone who believes that a war in Iraq critique is akin to a bin Laden apologist.
No. I'm only saying that you shouldn't speak for me if you think Osama is funny or that his "one liners" were any good.
If you find him that way, good. I don't.
I obviously think that invading Iraq instead of narrowly focusing the war against Al Qaeda and I think that it's damaged our credibility. But that's a long way from assuming that people find Bin Laden credible.
If you do, fine. I'll put you in the same category as those women who swooned over Ted Bundy at his trial. But don't speak for me. You don't.
"Really? Are John Kerry and John Edwards saying "oh well I think that if we only stopped supporting Israel Osama would leave us alone".
I'm sorry SWR, but you are throwing out reactionary rhetoric to real issues. Upthread, Richard Head said that the American liberal left is comparable to bin Laden, based upon his understanding of bin Laden's speech. I'll say it once again: the problem is not the sociopath; it is the credulous audience.
But if that sociopath now enjoys a credibility that he/she would otherwise not have had.
Speaking in the passive voice is always bad.
Why not be specific. Why not say "Arabs find Bin Laden credible" or "Eskimos find him credible"?
Passive Voice = lack of credibility.
Why not be specific. Why not say "Arabs find Bin Laden credible" or "Eskimos find him credible"?
So, is it now arguable that Al Quaeda has seen increased membership in its ranks due to the war in Iraq?
Upthread, Richard Head said that the American liberal left is comparable to bin Laden, based upon his understanding of bin Laden's speech.
OK. I'll give it to you. Bin Laden has credibility in the troll community on Atrios.
Why exactly should I care what "Richard Head" thinks.
Kerry's been saying for months that Bush didn't kill Bin Laden when we had the chance. Doesn't the tape give Kerry, not Osama, the real credibility boost?
But part of understanding any speech is looking at the motives of whoever is giving it. If you're fooled by Osama and think he's a credible opponent of American imperialism, I'd honestly rather not be on the same side as you are.
If you though that speech was in any way clever or coherent, you're insane.
Apply the same standards that you'd apply to Bush. Does Osama ever once express any remorse or regret that he's murdered thousands of people?
Oh yeah, he's clever all right. Blah.
Too bad you are too emotional to think about things and too much the moralizer to analyze the speech in a detached, productive way.
Just read the transcript from last night's Nightline. According to you, the foremost terrorist expert in the USA who served under more presidents that anyone else I can recall is 'insane.'
And no, Bush has not apologzed for killing any of the 100,000 Iraqis, civilians, mostly women and children, who have been killed in his foolish, incompetently run and already failed war on Iraq.
So, is it now arguable that Al Quaeda has seen increased membership in its ranks due to the war in Iraq?
I think the insurgency in Iraq has as much to do with Iraqi nationalism as it does with Al Qaeda.
And I think we should keep that distinction in mind when we're talking about the fallout from the invasion of Iraq.
I think the insurgency in Iraq has as much to do with Iraqi nationalism as it does with Al Qaeda.
And I think we should keep that distinction in mind when we're talking about the fallout from the invasion of Iraq.
SWR
My question did not concern the membership of the Iraqi insurgency. I merely asked if you were questioning whether al Quaeda has in fact been able to parlay the war in Iraq into increased membership, and yes, credibility? Your comment upthread seemed to imply that this is questionable.
Too bad you are too emotional to think about things and too much the moralizer to analyze the speech in a detached, productive way.
Calling somebody "emotional" is pure Freeper. I'm not accusing you of being a Freeper, just noting that it's something they usually say.
But even so, what you find "funny" is based on your emotions. Your reaction to Osama's speech (that it's 'funny') is as emotionally based as my disgust at a mass murderer getting into an international pissing contest with Bush.
Frankly, it all makes me ill. Bush and Bin Laden are both wagging their dicks over thousands of dead bodies. Not funny at all. Sorry if you think that's "emotional".
Oh, I see that mypollingplace.com is a PFAW operation. Still, I think it's a mistake to use it. There is no way tat there info could be very accurate. Call your ocal election departmet instead.
I say that as someone who has years of experience overseeing election administration.
"No. I think John Kerry should harshly criticize Bush on diverting resources from Al Qaeda to Iraq."
Okay, you could interpret my comments that way. My bad. It is not really what I meant and I agree totally that Kerry should give Bush hell for targeting Iraq instead of AQ.
My point was: You should tell OBL to stay out of your "internal" debates instead of aligning each other with OBL.
When Both Kerry + followers and Bush + followers agree that AQ should be hunted down relentlessly, that is a united front against a foreign threat.
ha ha ha. today my guest editorial ran in our local newspaper...the same newspaper (pulitzer-prize winning, might i add) that last week equated liberals with satanists, and routinely runs editorials that state that a vote for john kerry = a vote for the devil. not kidding, you can check the archives!
in any event, they allowed me to respond to one of the right-wing wackos and my commentary ran today...
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.c..._id=33439&
rfi=6
My point was: You should tell OBL to stay out of your "internal" debates instead of aligning each other with OBL.
You'd have a point if John Kerry were "aligning" Bush with Bin Laden. He's not. Some right wing blogs are "aligning" him with the American left. Even Bush isn't "aligning" Kerry with Al Qaeda.
But does this mean that Kerry should not criticize Bush? If you do, you need to learn to make distinctions between "criticizing" and "aligning" someone with Osama Bin Laden.
They're different, really.
"My point was: You should tell OBL to stay out of your "internal" debates instead of aligning each other with OBL."
Hey, I'm all for ignoring the lunatic in regards to the election. But, the American press won't let me.
Watertiger:
"Which would explain the visceral reaction Bush has to the appearance of the tape -- he worries that each time a tape surfaces, it's going to indict him"
And that Move-On or the DNC or the Kerry campaign is going to put out and ad showing Bush saying that BinForgotten "has been marginalized and how he doesn't think about him much anymore." And that this ad will run in heavy rotation from now until late Tuesday evening. And that the pundits and script-readers will begin asking, "Did President Bush do enough to capture Bin Laden?"
I wish this would come to pass...I hope someone, somewhere is editing and finishing up this ad right now!
Hey, I'm all for ignoring the lunatic in regards to the election. But, the American press won't let me
This is one instance where I honestly think Bush has been more intelligent than the press.
The debate can be summed up as follows:
Bush: We can best fight terrorism by establishing a large American military presence in the Middle East.
Kerry: We can best fight terrorism by narrowly concentrating on Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups.
Just vote based on which position you agree with. Ignore the press. But for the love of God, don't stop debating the issue because some right-wingers think we shouldn't.
It's a legitimate debate and it's one that we didn't have before we went into Iraq. Let's not squelch the debate now, whoever wins.
Mr. President, why are you trying to "run and hide" from your administration's previous conclusion of your grevious error to commit enough ground troops to catch Osama? Osama is on the run Mr. President and from that fact you are trying to hide for not capturing him for 3.5 years since he attacked us.
U.S. Concludes Bin Laden Escaped at Tora Bora Fight
Failure to Send Troops in Pursuit Termed Major Error
By Barton Gellman and Thomas E. Ricks
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, April 17, 2002; Page A01
The Bush administration has concluded that Osama bin Laden was present during the battle for Tora Bora late last year and that failure to commit U.S. ground troops to hunt him was its gravest error in the war against al Qaeda, according to civilian and military officials with first-hand knowledge.
"The far left hates George W. Bush with a raging fury. So does al-Qaeda. Was it really so shocking that the rhetoric of the former would eventually be taken up by the latter?"
This is the comment I criticized!
Far left hates Bush = AQ hates Bush: aligning.
Your line: "You'd have a point if John Kerry were "aligning" Bush with Bin Laden. He's not." Where are Bush and Kerry in the comment I originally criticized?! You dragged them into this.
This is the comment I criticized!
Far left hates Bush = AQ hates Bush: aligning.
So a troll is comparing Bin Laden to the American left.
How does this affect the election?
A vote for Bush is a tacit endorsement of his policy of not going after Osama bin Laden.
Sweden is a neutral country. That's why he said it I think
After considering the Osama tape, and the fact that something like 380 tons of high explosive have gone missing, I'd be expecting some airlines to be blown from the sky sometime soon as happened in Russia recently. Wouldn't surprise me a bit and if I was a terrorist I'd do it the day before Thanksgiving for maximum effect. Bush didn't get the job done on the terrorists, his bungling has probably put these high explosives in the hands of terrorist, probably where the Chechin terrorists got the stuff, and the cargo and baggage going onto airlines isn't checked. The Osama tape is probably the GO order. Because of GW Bush we'll probably being paying another high price.
"So a troll is comparing Bin Laden to the American left.
How does this affect the election?"
Okay, now that this misunderstanding is cleared: I have no idea how this will affect the election, I am not clairvoyant.
A vote for Bush is a tacit endorsement of his policy of not going after Osama bin Laden.
Exactly. Bush has said that Osama is a mere figurehead and that the way to fight Al Qaeda is a massive American military presense in Iraq.
If you agree with Bush your reaction to the tape should be "so what it's only a tape".
If you think Osama himself is a threat, you agree with Kerry.
Let some other people talk.
Let some other people talk.
dogbreath | Email | Homepage | 10.30.04 - 5:08 pm | #
How am I stopping them?
Who is responsible for more deaths in the world---Osama bin Ladin, or George W. Bush?
I think it's Bush.
Moreover, the killing Bush instigated in Iraq was not provoked by anything Iraq was doing to America. It was simply a neo-imperialist project and a politically calculated move to boost Bush's domestic popularity, since Americans wanted ass to be kicked in the aftermath of 9/11 and Saddam's ass was bigger than the Taliban's, and we never found OBL. So in fact, Bush IS a war criminal and mass murderer.
So when we look at OBL on TV, and think what a mad, evil, terrorizing, murdering bastard, imagine what the many, many thousands of bereaved Iraqis must think when they see Bush on TV.
Think about how many times you've heard someone in one of these "balanced" (3 strong conservative and 1 "moderate" Republican) panels say this: Well, Bush is strong on terrorism".
You've heard that in numbers beyond counting, and without any evidence to back it up. All of these programs that were instituted *after* 9/11 had their budgets slashed so that massive tax cuts could be distributed to the elite. Virtually every real step forward in protecting the public was instituted only over his objections, dragging him kicking and screaming. Remember how he fought against federalizing the airport screeners, prefering untrained minimum wage employees so that he could give more money to the rich? Our terrorism stance is a joke, forcing those on the front line to deal with it whilst overwhelmed and with inadequate tools.
Terrorism is Bush's greatest weakness. Our own television personalities are a far greater danger to this country than al Qaeda will ever be. We watched them build this meme and we were powerless to expose the lie in it. When Kerry wins, we need to destroy and re-build the system that presents news in this country.
Little Gift?
Little Gift???
LITTLE GIFT!!!!!???
That creep should have his little gift cut off.
The far left hates George W. Bush with a raging fury. So does al-Qaeda.
Meanwhile, the mainstream Republicans looooove Osama.
So who's the traitorous motherfuckers dancing on the graves of 3,000 dead Americans here? Here's a hint.
While it may be difficult for anyone formally attached to the Kerry campaign to push it, I don't understand why others (e.g., Michael Moore) aren't nailing Bush on being mocked, and being so readily mockable, on the Pet Goat idiocy.
Speaking of "gifts", this little gem is practically designed to be used for ridicule of Bush.
Seriously, do we want a President who is paralyzed by fear in the face of an attack, so obviously so that our mortal enemy can trash talk him as an incompetent coward?
Why can't john Kerry just bypass the media, and say I'd like to respond to President Bush's recent attack on me with a quote. This is hte first sentence from an August 16th, 2002 Washington Post report by Barton Gellman and Thomas Ricks.
Quote The Bush administration has concluded that Osama bin Laden was present during the battle for Tora Bora late last year and that failure to commit U.S. ground troops to hunt him was its gravest error in the war against al Qaeda, according to civilian and military officials with first-hand knowledge.
It's unbelievable that the PResident ignores reality, and it's equally unbelievable that the networks seem incapable of stating the historical record.
The far left hates George W. Bush with a raging fury. So does al-Qaeda.
Well, my kitchen table has four legs, and so does a giraffe. But that doesn't mean my kitchen table is a giraffe.
The far left hates George W. Bush with a raging fury. So does al-Qaeda.
Ooh, I can play too!
Al Qaeda is composed of theocratic religious fundamentalists, who hate gays, women, and all religions other than their own.
The Southern Baptist Convention is composed of theocratic religious fundamentalists, who hate gays, women, and all religions other than their own.
Little gift? No, little git.
Think about this before you cast your vote.
Look at the following list of names and consider who they would most likely vote for if they were allowed to vote in our coming election,
Martin Luther King
Abraham Lincoln
Thomas Jefferson
Benjamin Franklin
Thomas Paine
Gandhi
Eleanor Roosevelt
Robert Kennedy
Nelson Mandela
Bishop Tutu
The Lorax
When you cast your vote will you be voting the same way as you think the above people will vote?
How closely aligned with these people will you be?
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We are on track for historic turnout in this election. Voters are coming out in record numbers for John Kerry.
And that has the Republicans scared. They have no plan, no hope, no way to win this election except to stop people from voting. Their strategy is simple:
1.Discourage Democratic voters from going to the polls by filling the airwaves with predictions of doom and gloom.
2.Delay voting and create lines at polls by challenging voters and election officials.
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Have you contacted your Corporate Media Whore today?
http://www.fair.org/media-contac...ntact-
list.html
BTW -- I wanna make this clear.
My point about Osama and the Sweden
joke was not that I think Osama is
cool.
The fact that he's capable of irony
makes me paranoid that he's a
construct. In other words, if's got writers, maybe he's just
a character in drama being directed
by people we don't even know about.
Kerry by a comfortable margin (I'm giving out Halloween candy here in the deep "We cain't have Halloween on uh Sunday!" South, and reading the various sites I love, and just had to make a comment. Oh, and the OBL tape? Sucks for Bush [duh!]).
The far left hates George W. Bush with a raging fury. So does al-Qaeda.
I'm neither "far left" (whatever the hell THAT means) or Al Qaeda and I hate Bush with a raging fury.
In fact, every time I see the son of a bitch on TV I fervently wish I could reach in, grab him by the throat and beat the living shit out of him!
As things stand, Kerry is just as big a threat to our security as Bush or Clinton.
Bullshit! What the hell did Bill Clinton do to be a threat to our security?
You must be a Naderite!
Matt Rexroad, political director for the CA Assembly and Senate Republicans, has this post:
New endorsement for John Kerry
Osama Bin Laden (D - Pakistan)
What a jerkoff!
To quote Dick Cheney:
"Richard Head" should go fuck himself.
Perhaps Bill O'Reilly will lend him his vibrator!
Of course he'd really rather have Bush. While Bush did drive him out of Afghanistan (maybe) that was a backwater retreat for Osama. He'd much rather be back home where the holy sites are and especially all of that oil. And Bush was so obliging in opening up even better opportunities for his boys in Iraq, so near to his goal. As well as helping with recruiting. I'll bet Bush has helped Al Q more than all of Osama's tapes.
And never forget, Bush has already started the pull out from S. Arabia that Osama requested. I'd say they're well on the way to mending fences. If Osama got hold of the oil they'd be best of friends. At least with J. B. as a go between. He'll suck up to anyone.
As things stand, Kerry is just as big a threat to our security as Bush or Clinton.
Bullshit! What the hell did Bill Clinton do to be a threat to our security?
You must be a Naderite!"
It is impossible for Clinton to not have known Hussein had no WMDs. Saddam's son-in-law told us that in the early 90's -- and he was in charge of their destruction so he should have known -- and Scott Ritter was 100% confident of that as well. He'd even proven it.
AND... John Kerry blew him off. I know this because Ritter himself reported that about three months ago.
It's therefore hardly a surprise that Bush didn't work too hard at securing Iraq's weapons.
Yet Clinton kept up an embargo that murdered more than a million Iraqis. Mostly women and children.
BTW, he's also responsible for the biggest act of ethnic cleansing in the Balkans when our lovely Croatian allies ran 250,000 Christian Serbs out of their homes. So OBL is quite mistaken in his assertion than America's at war with Islam. Her masters are at war with anyone who backtalks them.
OBL's also wrong in believing that this is a democracy, which is the foundation for his jihad against American civilians. I predicted a win for the Democrats a year ago when I'd determined that the masters had turned on Bush. Hence all the pleasant little October Surprise (TM) bomblets Bush is having to deal with. (Something I also predicted with iron confidence.)
We, the citizens of the United States, need to take care of business before business takes care of us. In all areas -- foreign policy, domestic freedom, and even economics -- we're at the edge of an abyss. If we don't get control I further confidently predict we'll be a second class country well on the road to third-world status by the end of the naughts. The euro's eclipse of the dollar is very much the result of economic fundamentals.
Bush had to go because his blundering threatened our global hegemony, and most importantly made the master's natural contempt for America's citizens too obvious.
So I have spoken, so it shall be done.
I don't think OBL actually cares who is our president. He has an agenda and he wants to proceed with it and whether we have an idiot or a hero as our leader, he figures he'll do whatever he wants.
If I were a terrorist I'd get my plan in place for whatever horrible thing I want done, then do just what OBL did -- make a video that has an entire country trying to figure out what it is I want them to do. Of course, it doesn't matter what they decide, but they like to think they might have some control.
So, if they elect Bush I do my dirty deed and half the country turns to the other half and screams "We tried to tell you this would happen - now look what you've done!" Or, they elect Kerry and I still do whatever I had planned and the same cry goes up but from the opposite side.
Either way, one side blames the other for whatever occurred, and OBL sits back and smiles.
That's why we vote out the idiot and vote in the guy who has a chance of having some positive effect. It doesn't mean nothing bad will ever happen, but at least someone rational will be attempting to counter the enemy's charge. If we hadn't had Bush to begin with it's very possible OBL wouldn't be around to play head games today.
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