I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Phew. I was worried yesterday's events had sent you into a funk. Good to see the fire still burns.
Onward and forward, bitches!
Spot on.
Organize,Educate,Agitate
Onward we go.
To Iran and Syria, HO
Nixon, 1972. 520 electoral votes, every state except Massachusetts.
Nixon, 1974. Resigned one step ahead of impeachment.
I like the long game.
Keep your powder dry.
The rest of the world is wary of us, as they should be, given that we seem to have openly embraced a fascist fabulist.
yes. we must move on. there is too much work to do.
be prepared for major bombings in iraq....any ideas how to get this administration to start cooperating and doing things right?
oh yeah, i want an ati-FAUX news channel.
not cnn, not msnbc...ron reagan and al franken in the am. atrios and kos in the afternoon.
Thanks Atrios, for everything that you've done, enabled,. . .
But if the elections are rigged, it needs to be exposed, otherwise what's the point? More of the same?
Working for nothing but eternal defeat?
I am starting to fear that just too many people are intractable in their beliefs- just too few persuadables. What more evidence would it take to convince voters that the present course is wrong. Will only generational shifts truly start to affect change?
Just depressed and pissed off today. Tomorrow we can think about the future.
margaret cho has a few words of wisdom for the nay sayers out there.
i know it perked my spirts up a bit.
click on the homepage link.
Where do I send my first $100 for 2006 elections??
Nixon, 1974. Resigned one step ahead of impeachment.
I agree, our goal should be to continue going after bush, there are lot of scandals brewing that have been put off till the elections. It is now time for the roosters to come home to roost.
Atrios - this is The Birth of a Neo-Fascist Nation.
The next four years are going to be tough. And they have the Patriot Act I and II to help them. We have a problem, Houston. A very bad problem.
Atrios thanks for your site.
I love John Kerry and Edwards always. They are men of true convictions, decent, good hearted. I will miss them.
Susie, I'd love to agree with you, but the composition of the Congress was different in Nixon's era, and I think we have a more culpible media that would cocoon Bush.
Sorry. I don't mean to be negative. I'm still reeling. I'm not in a condition to fight back or get in another line or wear a fucking black hoodie (although I am wearing all black). We got beat. I'm having a hard time getting back up.
Americans have collectively pissed the bed.
I hope they have fun sleeping in it.
just wanted to say...thanks. For having this blog and for fighting the good fight and for still having fight in you.
onward, indeed.
Impeachment maybe should happen, given what went on surrounding the run up to Iraq. It won't happen. The public seems far too cynical and "unshockable," if you will, for political misdeeds to make a difference in their minds.
And I guess this means douchebag Robert Novak is going get away with it.
pelosi is on c-span, frisky as ever.
let's do dis.
A little funny to cheer people up:
I just went to andrewsullivan.com and up popped an error message "The document contains no data."
Strangely appropriate, eh?
right.
we have to start giving$, even if in small amounts and on a monthly basis-to prepare for 2006
It's midnight in America
The Castle is going to need some storming into. This is very bad.
Coat hanger abortions and gay bashing to start.
Thanks, A.
Well....time to regroup and focus on '06. I was shocked at how I actually had a physical reaction to the election results...I mean...I actually had a bad headache and felt a slight fever.
I'm gonna lay back for a while and allow myself to bounce back.
Emergency Election Info
We fought like hell. That's what counts. And if we keep it up, we will win. If we don't, then we will lose, lose our country and lose our souls.
Look at all of the past great battles to advance justice and liberty. The win never comes easy, never, especially when you are fighting against entrenched and corrupt power.
Fight on! Fight on! No days off, no missing a beat. Fight on! This is our duty.
We need to spot our savior. Keep your ears and eyes open.
Let's start organizing now!!!!!
We need to get our asses in gear and have a precinct captain with a staff of four volunteers for every precinct in the whole country. Let's strike while the iron is hot.
Edwards-Obama 2008
cake or death,
Inspiring words from Margaret Cho. My favorite: "Just imagine the incredible storm of shit that Bush will have to endure. It will make Hurricane Jean look like a humidifier."
bring on the indictments.
The CIA and the bureaucrats didn't start loving his theocratic notions overnight. We still have friends in high places.
Where do I send my first $100 for 2006 elections??
Well if you have some disposable income to spend, why not contribute to www.blackboxvoting.org?
Organize,Educate,Agitate
I like the sound of that. They just gave us a whole new purpose in life. Onward and upward.
"And I guess this means douchebag Robert Novak is going get away with it."
-ryan
No, it means _we_ have to keep the flame under his feet until he cries out in guilt. We can't rely on the media anymore. They've abdicated their duties to the citizens of this country. Time for the people to take center stage.
I think, given what has transpired in the last two elections, that the e-voting systems are corrupted. There is NO problem with the punch ballots if you simply empty the chad tray at least once an election.
"Things fall apart; the center cannot hold." - Yeats
They'll do it to themselves. When you have that much power and so little humility, it's inevitable.
The blue states in the NE subsidize the red states. If they want to take our money, let them provide cannon fodder for Iraq.
but the sky is falling, the sky is falling!
more seriously, hungary pulling 300 troops out by end of march
(was on yahoo news earlier)
You got that right, atrios.
Thanks for this site and all the positive energy and reinforcement.
I'm destroyed, disillusioned, despondent, and some other "d"s.
But about an hour ago I founds another one. Determination.
it sounds cheesey - but I feel much, much better. And I'm actually looking forward to the fight.
No sh*t.
hey - Mary Cheney has her partner with her?????!?????
I got tickets to hear Brian Wilson do SMiLE at the Disney Hall here in Los Angeles. I cringed when I saw the date, the day after the election. I knew I'd either by really high or really low, not really in a frame of mind to concentrate on the music. I'm so low right now, the lowest bass note ever wasn't as low. I don't really want to go--I'd rather drink myself in to a stupor, frankly--but with $85 tickets, not really an option.
It is absolutely imperative that Democrats do something about the congress and the senate. If it was hard to investigate Bush's various mini-scandals, (Plame, Halliburton, Pre-9/11, Iraq intel, etc...) this term, it will be even harder next 2 years. We need congressional oversight, and the republicans sure as hell are not gonna let it happen.
Atrios, from your mouth to (insert your deity here) ears.
I completely agree. This is the beginning of a social movement. There are setbacks, but we keep plugging away. We must fight the good fight.
OT...thanks for giving me a place to feel at home. The topics are informative, and the comments are inspiring, entertaining, and insightful. I appreciate all you do.
Thank you.
I got tickets to hear Brian Wilson do SMiLE at the Disney Hall here in Los Angeles. I cringed when I saw the date, the day after the election. I knew I'd either by really high or really low, not really in a frame of mind to concentrate on the music. I'm so low right now, the lowest bass note ever wasn't as low. I don't really want to go--I'd rather drink myself in to a stupor, frankly--but with $85 tickets, not really an option.
Atrios...Duncan -
Thanks for all of this. Your voice of reason will be the candle for a lot of us in the coming darkness.
(Too dramatic? Too much pressure?)
Oh boy!
Brownshirts praise dear leader.
This'll put me over the edge.
To move onward, we need to strike a balance between conciliation and assertiveness. One issue that Dems have tiptoed around is that of abortion. With voters single-threading through "moral values" (I HATE THAT TERM!!!), the reality of the anti-abortion movement must be exposed: anti-abortion = anti-contraception = anti-women's rights and autonomy = BURQAS!!! The anti-choice movement's real agenda must be publicized before the bench becomes loaded with anti-choice judges working to overturn Roe v. Wade. This issue needs to be front and center as we Dems march onward into an increasingly uncertain future.
Kerry 2008!!!
Seriously.....!
Lets move on, who cares if we have a homicidal madman for president? Who cares how many wars he can start in four more years? I mean, really, why should we care if he quits and runs before they even count the votes. Really, none of it matters, does it?
Atrios, isn't that what we said in 2000 and 2002? As Edwards just said, The Battle Rages On. And it will rage on and on and on and on to futility.
We need congressional oversight, and the republicans sure as hell are not gonna let it happen.
Keep pounding on the media. They endorsed Kerry -- they know Bush is a disaster, and they failed us in his first term.
Amen, Atrios!
What matters isn't what was done wrong, but what needs to be done right for the '06 elections.
The 100 million dollar question.
Any ideas?
"What matters isn't what was done wrong, but what needs to be done right for the '06 elections."
Couldn't disagree more. The issue is not 2006, but 2004.
This was not just about an election. We can't help America by simply saying "OK, on to 2006."
This election ended up being about Bush getting more than 50% of the vote, the Republicans gaining firm control of the Congress, the conservatives controlling the judiciary -- this election was all about the agenda that will now be shoved down our throats.
The task at hand is to unify against the onslaught that will surely come now. To strategize a defense. And yes, to work to win future elections.
It's not a time to say "aw shucks, we lost one."
Is there anyone out there who is going to transcribe Bush's victory speech so I don't have to listen to it? I feel like I should know what the bastard says, but I can't stand listening to him, especially since here the smirk factor is going to be huge.
I got tickets to hear Brian Wilson do SMiLE at the Disney Hall here in Los Angeles. I cringed when I saw the date, the day after the election. I knew I'd either by really high or really low, not really in a frame of mind to concentrate on the music.
I feel your pain, Jim.
Wanna trade places? I have 4 term papers due. 
I am tired of people telling us, "Quit whining, start thinking about the future, etc."
It's been TWO FUCKING HOURS. I think we can take some time to indulge our despair.
Don't get your hopes up for '06. This year was highest turnout in thirty years. Americans love George Bush. It's just a fact, and there's nothing we can show them to change their minds that they haven't already fucking seen.
That, plus rigged elections, makes all our work on behalf of Democratic presidential candidates futile, now and for the foreseeable future.
John Kerry is a good man, and he was a good candidate. We can all find little things about the campaign that we might have done differently, but overall he did everything he could. People are just intent on signing away their freedom.
America has spoken. And it has said, "Give us fascism, give us theocracy".
.
What matters isn't what was done wrong, but what needs to be done right for the '06 elections.
Uh, what? You can't determine the latter without taking the former into account. And if 'what was done wrong' was 'using voting machines with secret software and no paper trail that are manufactured by companies with GOP ties', then it doesn't matter what we do in '06 if those machines are still in use.
Good luck with the fight. You're better people than I.
I for one am done with this nation. Will be moving somewhere overseas where I won't have to be front and center for the disasters that are sure to follow the second Bush empire. Just wait until those 380 tons of explosives show up in big city, USA.
I've been an activist all my life... the Kerry loss was hard to take, but moreso the hate-filled, "moral" ballot measures that passed foretell a theocracy I don't want to live in.
Good luck with the fight. You're better people than I.
I for one am done with this nation. Will be moving somewhere overseas where I won't have to be front and center for the disasters that are sure to follow the second Bush empire. Just wait until those 380 tons of explosives show up in big city, USA.
I've been an activist all my life... the Kerry loss was hard to take, but moreso the hate-filled, "moral" ballot measures that passed foretell a theocracy I don't want to live in.
one thing i have now that i didn't have two years ago when i got involved in this cycle was a massive network of information and friends, huge media lists and organization.
hold up i have to vomit; the dark overlord is speaking.
First off, we need to closely examine this election debacle if we have any hope of recapturing the momentum in 2006. To put it behind us the day after reveals an inability to gaze hard into the mirror in order to discern how this election -- which was all but handed to us on a silver platter in light of the sheer incompetence of the Bush administration -- was so badly botched by us, the Democrats.
I'm not interested in shallow denunciations of the right, or crude critiques of our own defects.
But serious reflection is certainly in order here. A hard gaze inward is the only thing that will give us the strength to mount a serious challange in 2006.
First glaring fuck up: John Edwards. What did this worthless POS bring to the table? At leat a Kerry Gephart ticket gives us Missouri and likely Iowa, and thus the election (270 electoral votes exactly).
If Nader was the villian in 2000, that role in 2004 is now reserved for Edwards.
Listening to the de facto President be all humble. NOT.
God he's still lying even when he doesn't need to.
...egad, claims a MANDATE.
Something that Mary Cheney has never had, i can tell you that much.
yeah i liked that comment the best Matt.
only because it's true!
sdf --
1) an accurate and accountable voting system, none of this vaporware.
2). . .
The ray of light in this whole fucked-up mess is that this huge fiasco is all Bush's; his and his enablers. The control all branches of our government and half of our voters think he's wonderful. They have lots to clean up. Iraq, Afghanistan, our economy, the deficit, all of it is his. This is his great legacy. and that house of pathetic cards is still teetering precariously. True, Porter Goss will likely cover for the outing of Plame, but there are many other scandals dogging Mr.Bush's heels.
Let's get to work exposing them and impeach the bastards.
There is no great mandate. He is the president of the haters, the bigots, and the perpetually stupid.
He does not speak for me.
Let's count the votes, expose the fraud (again!) and remove this hideous stain.
IMPEACH
I seldom post here, but read every day. I want to thank you Atrios for your hard work (It’s hard work!) keeping us informed and vibrant.
Mourn today, fight tomorrow. Considering the organizational state of the Dems 4 years ago, we’ve made huge strides. Let’s not let that go to waste. Keep your contacts, keep those websites bookmarked. Stay involved! Start small and work up. Right now we should all be concentrating on the ’06 midterms. We need to throw a huge roadblock in front of these bastards (not to mention subpoena and investigative powers).
And hold the media’s feet to the fire. They screwed us all so badly these past 4 years, they have to learn how to report again. We have to teach them by hitting them in their wallets. Organized boycotts seem in order.
Fight on good soldiers, fight on! We have much more strength today than we did 4 years ago. The struggle will never end. Strap your jocks on tight boys, it’s gonna get bumpy.
i think it's important to avoid the platitudes about how we'll organize better or get the job done right for 06 and realize what has actually happened - the utter bifurcation of our country.
we live in 2 americas, as the campaign speech went. but it's an america of people who are inclusive (like us) and people who are intolerant and fundamentally fearful (like them).
a massively and intentionally broken education system, along with implicit endorsement of nutcase evangelican xtianity over the past 25 years or so - combined with a complete and utter takeover of mass media in our country - has resulted in where we are now.
if you want to think about 06, that's fine.i'm more concerned about making sure my two teenage kids don't end up dying in our Hessian military-for-corporate-hire somewhere halfway around the world.
that motivates me, and motivated me in this campaign. to see the fold so quickly - when there are obvious electoral doctoring issues to be confronted - makes me realize the problem may be far bigger than even our nightmares envisioned.
i'm down, but not out. but let's just be honest - we got shafted again, just like in 00, and without lube.
how's it feel?
Cheney:
Broad nation victory across the country!
Then he quotes drudge headline, oy!
Excellent sentiment Atrios. These things take time.
The only silver lining is that Bush has to deal with the messes he's created. He can't run and hide from the quagmire, no excuses about recalcitrant Congress.
Kerry, if he had won, would have to clean up the Augean stables, with one hand tied by Congress and the other by dirty-tricks operations like SBVT.
Let's start by not allowing Iowa and New Hampshire to pick our next candidate?? They didn't do a very good job this time.....even though I like JK as a guy...he just wasn't what I thought we should pick.
Oh, and thanks, Atrios. Blogs may indeed, as I'm sure some will say, be ineffective echo-chambers that haven't changed anything, but to those of us who frequent them they mean quite a lot, and it's no accident that you and Markos are our "leaders."
Yes, many thanks, Atrios.
impeachment is impossible, when we have no one working for us from the inside. Not to mention the right wing media.
I'll never let the likes of them break my spirit!
At least now when their grand illusion collapses they will have no one to blame but their chimp and his witch-doctors.
and by the way, i deeply appreciate the efforts of Duncan/Atrios, this site, and all those who contribute their thoughts to it.
to say that it's been a lifeline to many of us is a huge understatement.
thanks, A.
Here you guys are!
Wow, blogger had me trapped in an old thread.
We're all heartbroken today, but once we catch our breath and steady ourselves, we'll be ready to start fighting again.
I love you all.
I don't understand these trolls. Their guy won. Can't they simply feel good about that? Maybe go for a nice walk. But they're here, gloating and pestering. Doesn't say much for them, does it? Why are they so uneasy?
I will be gracious.
HA HA HA HA, you freakazoid lunatics. Thanks to your total insanity, the last 18 hours have been some of the happiest in my life.
By the time Thune won South Dakota, I sounded like Meg Ryan faking the Big-O in "When Harry Met Sally."
Thanks for the laughs. Most of them at you and your "candidate."
Like I said, I'll be gracious.
Tomorrow.
[Or, in honor of Lurch, "demain"].
__________________
All of these dilemmas and their complex conglomerations of circumstances are part of larger processes. When we utilize zero-sum game metaphors of power—winning and losing, success and failure, red and blue—we risk internalizing a linguistic logic of the relations represented in those symbols as simple, causal ones rather than as the multi-layered processes innate in any power relation.
Is politics a game? It certainly has fields, teams, and even jersey colors. We cheer, boo, cat-call, and strategize. We bet our livelihoods on it and our lives. The fundamental difference between sports and politics, though—the one we are at risk of forgetting or obfuscating in our current national culture with language and lack of dialogue alike—is that this game never ends.
Short-term successes and failures are equally unavoidable and critical to the (constructive and destructive) continuing process of our system of government: we are a republic. If you are reading this, you have particular sets of responsibilities in this republic: to protect and serve in your own ways.
We are educators and students. We are technologically capable. We have the logistical tools to engage the world and to be engaged, and the bare means of critical thought to be aware of such modes as mere tools. We are a group of relatively few among a great many brave who warrant our constant engagement, by whatever methodology necessary.
September 11th is still a hard day.
November 11th—the Veterans' Day holiday following the upcoming General Election—is fast approaching, and it will be another critical day for the world. Let us hope that healing will continue in the best interests of America and the world: this is our system, butterfly ballots, hazardous pretzels, and all. It is not perfect. It simply holds the greatest possibilities for good.
Get on the field and learn before you vote. Keep telling and getting told. Remember that the terms are important, and that the process will go on. Inertia does not require consent.
That's it for me. I'm never gonna watch TV news again!
They smeared Kerry by reporting on the Swift Boat lies for over a month. They even lied to help Bush get us into Iraq.
They ain't gonna feed me their creepy lies anymore!
At leat a Kerry Gephart ticket gives us Missouri"
No fucking way. I am from St. Louis, and outstate rural people hate Gephardt's guts. He is a representative of one small area in South St. Louis county. Gephardt would have done nothing to help the ticket.
And neither would anyone else. Edwards was not the problem. He did a fine job. YOu don't lose an election by this margin because of the VP candidate.
.
What makes you think Bush will have to deal with his mess? He'll be out in 4 years without having to "deal" with it. Leave it to the next prez, dem or rep. He doesn't give a shit.
Ok, lets lick our wounds but lets not give in to self absorbed pity or allow ourselves the luxury of taking to our beds in deep dispair. This is merely a flesh wound in the grand scheme of things, this is our Dunkirk. We will regroup and reorganize but we must never retreat.
Fuck them, they don't own us, they don't own the moral high ground, and they certainly don't own the soul of this great land. We will prevail.
Just saw this a-hole w/ a big smirk on his face, jeans, cowboy hat, white shirt, walking on campus (private u) holding high over his head a Bush/Cheney sign.
We just laughed and pointed our fingers at him like he's some freak cause to support them you gotta be.
I keep hearing in my head "Mad World" the second version.
John Kerry is a good man, and he was a good candidate. We can all find little things about the campaign that we might have done differently, but overall he did everything he could. People are just intent on signing away their freedom.
This is true. Kerry did all he could, perhaps all anyone could. Like it or not, Bush has a mandate. We liberals--and the reality-based community in general--have our work cut out for us.
This information came to light on 2 November - it represents the methodology which will be employed to strangle the Federal civil service and with it, all those dreadful little agencies that involve neither arms nor faith.
"President Bush's FY 2006 budget proposal will include a federal PAY FREEZE. In addition, and as I hinted at the local meeting, the President may VETO the Treasury/Transportation 2005 appropriations bill which includes the 3.5% pay increase. If successful, federal employees would get only 1.5%. (This would cost a GS-11-10 CR nearly $1300 in annual gross pay.) Lastly, the President is expected to call for a change in the CSRS pension computation from the "high 3" to "high 5" year formula, thus guaranteeing most current and future employees a PENSION CUT that will last a lifetime."
So - well before the game was played, the plans were firmly in place.
Thanks Atrios,
If anything we will probably be more galvanized. A week ago, I didn't think we could be possible to be MORE galvanized than we were but I see it today in people I didn't notice it in before.
Many of my coworkers are outraged. I'm disappointed that they weren't active earlier. Maybe I can guilt them into action.
Bush's Coalition of the Willing continues to crumble. "And don't forget Hungary..."
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/me...s.ap/
index.html
Is Micronesia still on board?
"Onward"? What, onward off a cliff? It's over folks. I for one am not waiting for the end. I'm getting the fuck out. I gave nearly 6 years of my life for the American people and they shit on me. Not again. Kerry ran a great campaign and the debates were excellent, but the American people voted for that thing. It's the American people's fault and you'll never change them. They're like a big dumb blob.
American People = The Blob
I still think the damn election was stolen, though.
Yes! Exactly!
Regroup, Retry. Stop the name calling. Stop the threats. Get it right the next time.
The Democratic party used to be the shining light in American politics, the last four years has seen a lowering of the bar.
Take the next four years to calm down, stop assuming that all those who dont agree with you are the incarnations of evil, and pick a candidate that can stand on his own.
I will have no problem at all voting Democrat if the cadidate can do the job.
Here is the lay of the land.
Click through Josh to Andy to Bill and then read some deep structure.
The right is taking Bush's slimmest margin for reelection in modern times as a "mandate" for an accelerated Culture War.
This is more a sign of weakness than an exploitation of strength.
There are few good policy options, and none of the brains needed to exploit them, in this administration. But they do burn a good cross, you've got to give them that!
So, count on "moral" and "ethical" issues to be first out of the mouths of those who least know what the word means. Bush needs it as a diversion, and the trailer park eats that shit up! It's a win/win situation, just not for America.
"The Architect Karl Rove"
Oy, now I know what is really bothering, life in American has become a dreadful, like a 'Matrix' Sequel.
Fuck the Democrats. Spinless useless bunch of bastards. Now we're all fucked because of thier bungling incompetence and a bunch of moron voters with buck teeth covered in chewing tabacco got a hard-on when Bush says Dems are going to ban the bible or make them get a gay marriage.
Thinking that a Northeastern liberal could win against Bush? What were they thinking?
I live in Nevada, a swing state. I, as a socialist leftist who voted for Kerry and had to hold back my vomit afterwards.
Never agian will I allow myself be fooled by the the Democratic scare tactics, "Vote for Kerry or Bush will win," wtf? Bush killed Kerry. If the electorite had any sense Bush would've been impeached if not up in front of a War Crimes trial right now.
The Democrats have lost the moderates and now they've lost the base like me. Screw'em. I'm voting third party from now on so atleast I voted my conscience.
Fuck the Democrats. Spinless useless bunch of bastards. Now we're all fucked because of thier bungling incompetence and a bunch of moron voters with buck teeth covered in chewing tabacco got a hard-on when Bush says Dems are going to ban the bible or make them get a gay marriage.
Thinking that a Northeastern liberal could win against Bush? What were they thinking?
I live in Nevada, a swing state. I, as a socialist leftist who voted for Kerry and had to hold back my vomit afterwards.
Never agian will I allow myself be fooled by the the Democratic scare tactics, "Vote for Kerry or Bush will win," wtf? Bush killed Kerry. If the electorite had any sense Bush would've been impeached if not up in front of a War Crimes trial right now.
The Democrats have lost the moderates and now they've lost the base like me. Screw'em. I'm voting third party from now on so atleast I voted my conscience.
I will be gracious.
HA HA HA HA, you freakazoid lunatics. Thanks to your total insanity, the last 18 hours have been some of the happiest in my life.
By the time Thune won South Dakota, I sounded like Meg Ryan faking the Big-O in "When Harry Met Sally."
Thanks for the laughs. Most of them at you and your "candidate."
Like I said, I'll be gracious.
Tomorrow.
[Or, in honor of Lurch, "demain"].
__________________
Holy Shit!
That huge "W" sign behind Bush at his VICTORY speech is so Orwellian.
We need to think past 06. We need to be thinking about 2020. It took the Rs 40 years to get from Goldwater to W part II--we need to think long term too.
We need to rebuild the party from the roots up. Ten years ago, Democrats could win elections in Idaho--now, their Legislature is 80%+ Republican, and most of those crackers run un-opposed. It's in the races at the bottom of the ballot where candidates learn their chops and where party organizations are built.
This is how the Republicans got where they are today--we need to steal that page from their book and beat them at their own game.
Jenna Talia = murikan
@Voodoo -- i Agree.
The ray of light in this whole fucked-up mess is that this huge fiasco is all Bush's; his and his enablers. The control all branches of our government and half of our voters think he's wonderful. They have lots to clean up. Iraq, Afghanistan, our economy, the deficit, all of it is his. This is his great legacy. (Voodoo)
The impeachment may have to wait till after 2006.
I think that is completely hokum about the yadda yadda.
..........
this was a complete sell out and premature concession and Kerry is wrong, people won't move past it and won't unite behind Bush because Bush is still the moron and bungler he always was.
...........
The 27% of Illinoisans who voted for Alan Keyes gives a good indication of the real size of the hard core Christian conservative Republicans. The rest of the Bush voters are just useful idiots who have no idea they are actually voting against their own interests. The job is to shake them and wake them up to reality.
I think that is completely hokum about the yadda yadda.
..........
this was a complete sell out and premature concession and Kerry is wrong, people won't move past it and won't unite behind Bush because Bush is still the moron and bungler he always was.
...........
Hesiod removed his blog, another voice is silenced.
The only bright note in this disaster is the removal of Daschle, the man who gave the green light to the Iraq invasion, the betrayer of Democrats everywhere. New leadership is now possible. Let's be vigilant or else the new leader will be some idiot like Lieberman.
Where can we get info on what the key elections are in '06. I am motivated damnit.
What can we do?
T.M.D.,
Later, much.
"This is merely a flesh wound in the grand scheme of things"
I think you might be understating the damage that another 4 years of Bush is likely to do. Hundreds of thousdands more dead. Probably FOUR SC appointments.
Looking forward to the return of the days of back-alley abortions?
.
While I agree with core of your sentiments, I disagree that we should not look back on this election. By doing so we can gain crtical knowledge of how to do it better the next time and whom to target and how to get more people to turn out. We must look forward with one eye on the past.
Yeah, can't blame Edwards. HW Bush won with Quayle.
I would say that there was nothing more we could have done. Everyone's efforts were admirable and the fight was good. There were some misteps and some gaffes here and there but both sides had them.
I would go so far as to argue that we did too much but the message being delivered was one that should not have been so hard fought since the evidence was already there. It is the electorate that did not want to have anything to do with it.
The success lies in how bushCo used 9/11 and the latent fears, trauma and shock of the event to their advantage. It is one for the history books when it's all over since the turning point was to use it for political advantage from the start.
Did Roosevelt use it to his advantage when Pearl Harbor was attacked? The nation rallied behind the country and attacked those who hit us with the world behind us.
This bozo went after someone not even related but used the initial attack as though they were.
It will remain reprehensible long after bush is out of office and remembered as the worst administration in history.
No, the message was there but they did not want anything to do with it. Almost as if they knew but didn't care.
[Or, in honor of Lurch, "demain"].
Ar ar...that's very clever.
Putain de sale raclure. 
Lima,
I beg to differ with you. There are no saviors. We all need to continue the fight. Our new leaders will rise to the top.
Fight on indeed!
George Bush:
First president in 16 years to win a majority of the vote.
Recieved more votes than any president in history.
Expanded Republican control of the House.
Expanded Republican control of the Senate.
MARS, BITCHES!!!!!!!!
paper trails.
"it's not who votes, it's who counts the votes"
Joseph Stalin
Atrios, I admire your focus.
No moping.
If the Red Sox could wait 86 years, we can tough it out for another two or four.
The Supremes are the biggest problem. Probably looking at 25 years or more to remove the right-wingers once Bush gets his three or four appointments in, plus finishes packing the various circuits.
Can't legislate around them, can't fire them, can't impeach them.
Hate to think about what options that leaves...
Bush got fifty-one percent of the popular vote, Kerry got forty-eight; not a mandate.
Odd that right before the election the Rove machine comes out with a message that states when you are "alone in the booth" you'll pick bush...
And then exit data doesn't match the poll numbers. Could they have themselves an out to any questions about the outcome's legitamacy before they arose? defusing the bomb before it goes off? seems fishy.
We need to think past 06. We need to be thinking about 2020. It took the Rs 40 years to get from Goldwater to W part II--we need to think long term too.
We need to rebuild the party from the roots up. Ten years ago, Democrats could win elections in Idaho--now, their Legislature is 80%+ Republican, and most of those crackers run un-opposed. It's in the races at the bottom of the ballot where candidates learn their chops and where party organizations are built.
This is how the Republicans got where they are today--we need to steal that page from their book and beat them at their own game.
a massively and intentionally broken education system,
I've been saying this all along ~ what a nightmare.
Oh, shit.
I almost forgot.
Four more years of watching Jenna get drunker and fatter.
No. I really AM going to have to open a vein.
.
Romario...I felt exactly the same way. I felt physically ill.
I'm looking around at the people in the grocery store wondering, did he vote for Bush? What about her? Who are these people that are willfully ignorant? What does it take for you to see corruption? I honestly think they don't want to know the truth. It's painful.
What do I have to do to make sure my voice is heard? I honestly believe that change needs to come from the ground up. I am going to do whatever it takes to get local candidates elected. This is where it will start. I'm sure of it. There should be no uncontested seats. Republicans should be challanged at every level. If you don't run someone, then the people do not have a choice. I hate it when someone says a Democrat can't win in my district. When have we tried? Honestly...from the bottom up. I know that I'm rolling up my sleeves.
bush just said reinforce values of faith and family...
they're loading me on the train now for my conversion...
NPR had a guy on (on The COnnection? unsure) who was talking about the EU as the new superpower that can rival the US. I didn't listen to the whole thing, but if it's true...EU, please oppose us more. Keep us from doing the things we know we will be doing. Thanks.
Other than that, ONWARD, bitches!
Actually, that's not being fair to the Blob. The Blob did seem to have some purpose to its actions. The 'Mukan people are just bloated and mindless.
1) an accurate and accountable voting system, none of this vaporware.
You got that right; even here in the bluest of the blue (northern California) it felt creepy when the touch screen (I'll call him Hal) assured me that my vote had been counted and I could give the card on back to the desk.
Task number two is finding charismatic candidates. We make think Bush is a chimp and a fraud, but he sells. Kerry did a better job than I thought he would, but he's still not middle America. (I think of that picture of him windsailing, and I think of him referring to "Lambert" Field in Green Bay, and I think of this Sunday's SportsCenter interview with the two candidates wherein he said that the most popular American sporting events should be on network TV, like the Super Bowl and the World Cup. The World Cup?)
The only two massively charismatic candidates the Democrats have fielded in the last twenty years are Clinton and Obama. Edwards? I dunno, maybe. I'm guessing he's already the frontrunner for '08 except for the unemployed one-term-senator thing.
So it's time to move beyond the Grey Davises and the Michael Dukasisis and the Walter Mondales and the Al Gores and the John Kerrys and find the other Barack Obamas out there. Cause they exist, and it's clear enough that Weber was right about the charismatic politician.
But I'm rambling.
--Stu
No. I really AM going to have to open a vein.
.
Grand Moff Texan
Be my guest.
I own you Moff.
Welcome to Theo-Fascism, with Busholini driving the bus. No detours on the road to hell. The orcs will swarm over the earth. But we must fight. Future generations demand it...so I bid you stand, men of the west!
Where do I sign up to kick Santorum's ass?
Oh, and don't blame John Edwards, people. He fought like hell, and will be the man next time.
(Don't think so? That 2:30 announcement was the prelude...)
the method of message needs to be clearer and more....well..faith-based
It is all about convincing enough old people that you love god and will make them safe
aim the message at the >50 crowd - they must account for at least 50% of the vote
"I've changed and see the moral decay of the old democratic party"
"The new democratic party stands for family and god and fiscal responsibility"
"open your churches to the democrats - jesus rides with us!"
seriously - I've figured it out...
america is still a puritan state
hit them with the god thingy and pepper a bit of jesus on top
what are the thugs going to say?
simply respond: I've seen the light of jesus!
I mean seriously - how many things has bush done that are religious-right?
The plan.
Attack. Don't let them set the agenda. We need enviromental reform and a minimum wage increase now, with a media blitz to go with it. A republican who gets in the way is acting un-American. This is a rally point that will reach across part lines and will be the set up for 06.
For 2006-
We need churches and more churches to evangelize democratic messages. We also need a someone (like Clinton) who can appeal to southern voters. An effective southern strategy is priceless. We also need to learn to be merciless, funding only candidates that can communicate to Joe and Jane sixpack. The democratic party needs to get involved in all aspects of american life..from sponsoring little league teams, childrens soccer teams, etc. We need to better connect culturally to the americam mainstream. Just some initial thoughts.
We have to get rid of the black-box voting machines. That's an imperative.
In the longer term . . .
Do they teach civics anymore in junior high & high school? Does someone come around to the 5th grade classes and run pretend elections to teach the kids how it works (not using cartoon characters for pretend candidates!)? If that isn't happening, if people aren't being taught that this is real, that it's not about cheering Spongebob and Ariel on to victory, then all our organizing and donating and carrying on isn't worth a hanging chad.
Volunteer for your local voter-education organization. Do the soft-spoken nonpartisan thing for a while. Learn who the other people are and why they are that way. That'll go far to helping us all learn how to reach them and gently, lovingly, persuasively, bring our neighbors around and into the light.
I mean seriously - how many things has bush done that are religious-right?
Face it, the Democratic party is now a fringe group.
Mars, Bitches!!!!!!!!
LMFAO!
My 9 year old son was crushed this morning by the news. But he said, quite philosophically, "One good thing about Bush being reelected is that there's still a lot of muckraking to do and stories you can tell me." He loves to hear the stories I read on the blogs or write in my own blog about the nature of this administration. It gets him fired up!
One thing I've been thinking about doing for a while is watching the Congress more closely. When the 109th is installed in Jan. I will make it my mission to document the good, the bad and the ugly that comes out of the Capitol.
I agree with my favorite posters, here and other places, who see this as a chance for us to get ourselves organized for the future. I see a network of progressives who not only field and support forward-thinking candidates but who also have a strong public service committment. Put our money where our mouths are, so to speak.
Half of our country thinks what Bush is doing is just fine. We know that they will only suffer under his policies in the end. We can leave them to it, or we can form the safety net that catches them. We have to fight fear and anger with compassion and optimism. We need to be the ones who are behind a great flowering of volunteerism and public service. We need to be a presence in every little town and sprawling suburb in this nation. Not because we want to "win" or have revenge on the Right, but because our ideals are right for America and have demonstrable positive consequences when put into action.
Social justice through grassroots activism needs to be the foundation of the new Progressive Left. "Think globally, act locally" needs to be more than a bumper sticker.
I'm ready to go. Are you?
Welcome to the "United States of Jeebus."
"Kerry 2008!!!
Seriously.....!"
Fortunate Son
-Won't happen.
Look, it's not that there is anything wrong with the Democratic Party. It's the American people. They're just not fucking ever going to be worth it. I don't want to ever fucking hear again, "I have faith in the American people."
Look at it this way! For the first time in his life smirk is going to have to clean up his own mess. This might be the best thing that ever happend to the democratic party. Who is he going to blame the next four years on? There is no way that the war or economy is going to improve unless he changes direction. And he won't do that. Sooner or later his followers are going to figure out they got conned. That's when it will get very interesting. There's nothing worse than a redneck that know's he's been taken for a sucker.
The fight is not over unless we give up!
I love it that the trolls are such obvious assholes.
I'm telling ya, they were the ones who ate paste in school, ate their boogers, & snitched on their friends.
They will never be cool, never.
You are all so CORRECT!
The only problem was that you didn't HATE Bush enough. You weren't LEFT enough.
You should have called him a NAZI more.
You should have called him HITLER more.
You should have urged the soldiers to SHOOT THEIR OFFICERS more.
You should have used the word "HALLIBURTON" more.
You shoyuld have called the Swiftvets LIARS more.
Gosh, just a LITTLE BIT MORE HATE and a few more LUNATIC ACCUSATIONS, and I'm sure you would have won.
Sigh. You were SO close.
Next time.
LOL.
_____________
The American result was eerily similar to the Australian result (we had our election on October 9).
Two governments that lied their way into Iraq, repeatedly changing justifications for said involvement; secretive government (enquiries nobbled, public servants demonized); souped-up character-assassination "scandals" of opposition leaders; polls showing a neck and neck race; optimism on the day and the day before as polls got even closer (some predicting a win for the Good Guys); despondency in the government camp as first results came in, and then... a swing towards the government in the actual count; claims of overwhelming "mandate" as the Right takes control of both houses plus executive; cries of "wipeout" of opposition parties, calls for blood on the floor of opposition caucuases and new directions towards conservatism.
But the truth is: there has been no wipeout of the Democrats.
They almost achieved the win they needed, coming oh-so close, down to the wire in the last state. There is no need to lurch to the right (can any self-respecting Democrat see any Democrat setting himself (or herself) up as being the fourth member of the Trinity (as one Ohio voter termed Bush)? Can any self-respecting Democrat see themselves as pandering to the religious nutbags who now seem to have so much influence? No, I didn't think so.
We've had nearly a month here in Australia to get used to the idea of losing an election we thought we could win, and should have won. We had very similar results to yours, percentage-wize, perhaps a little worse (52.5/47.5). Thinkers on the Left are now saying that the government should be given full reign to enact their frustrated legislative program, to pass all the laws that the Opposition has blocked in our own Senate. It's already becoming apparent that the government here regards, as part of its policy platform, all such legislation, dating back 8 years, whether mentioned in the campaign or not. Things voters thought had been forgotten are now being dusted off and made ready again for passing into law. Institutions - universities, hospitals, schools, investors - are squealing that they'll be disadvantaged by all this. My simple reply to them is: "You voted for it. You're stuck with it." You guys should do the same.
Lick your wounds. Grieve for a few weeks. Have a rest from politics and political discussion. Calls for counter attack right now are understandable, but counter attacks won't do any good so early. Marshallyour forces, keep your heads down and remember, nothing is forever.
Thanks Duncan,
It was getting pretty dark in this gloom.
To the ramparts!
Prepare to repel all boarders!
Word, Atrios.
Incog
Now that I think back, you were reading the pulse of America, better than I was. Being in a blue state led me to believe that there was no way Bush could get re-elected.
Bush got fifty-one percent of the popular vote, Kerry got forty-eight; not a mandate.
Absolutely true, but we can repeat this 'til our face turns blue and the Bushies and the SCLM will keep talking about a mandate.
I was saddened that Kerry conceded, but it is up to bush to fix all these problems. It is time for (our) media to pick one problem, harp on it until it is fixed or people have gone to jail and then go to the next problem. What I am thinking of is that the Plame affair needs to be looked into and indictments handed down, jail terms... hillbilly heroin boy needs to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law for his usage and his radio liscence taken away. In fact, why is he still able to spew his hatred when he has the drug charge waiting?
Gosh, just a LITTLE BIT MORE HATE and a few more LUNATIC ACCUSATIONS, and I'm sure you would have won.
Sigh. You were SO close.
Next time.
LOL.
_____________
Jenna Talia
Amen, sister.
Oh, and Aragorn, thanks for exhorting the men of the west to stand, but don't forget Eowyn. There are shieldmaidens in all sorts of unlikely places who can take down fell dwimmerlaiks to defend their own.
Basically, fuck 'em. Fuck those dogshit states like Florida, Ohio, Georgia, 'Zona, et. al If a company doesn't do right by me, I take my business elsewhere. I'll choose to take a vacation in California instead of Florida, go skiing in Killington instead of Telluride. Don't need to deal with giving my money to people who support this dimwit.
Basically, fuck 'em. Fuck those dogshit states like Florida, Ohio, Georgia, 'Zona, et. al If a company doesn't do right by me, I take my business elsewhere. I'll choose to take a vacation in California instead of Florida, go skiing in Killington instead of Telluride. Don't need to deal with giving my money to people who support this dimwit.
yes incognito no-faith...
but judo my friend - use their strength against them...
let's go the faith way - wtf we got to lose?
"we love jeebus...er..um..Jesus!"
hahahaha - can't help it
You are all so CORRECT!
The only problem was that you didn't HATE Bush enough. You weren't LEFT enough.
You should have called him a NAZI more.
You should have called him HITLER more.
You should have urged the soldiers to SHOOT THEIR OFFICERS more.
You should have used the word "HALLIBURTON" more.
You shoyuld have called the Swiftvets LIARS more.
Gosh, just a LITTLE BIT MORE HATE and a few more LUNATIC ACCUSATIONS, and I'm sure you would have won.
Sigh. You were SO close.
Next time.
LOL.
_____________
Fuck the South. I am sick of ignorant toothless ass-raping hillbillies in the South dictating the course of American politics.
It is all the fault of the goddamn electoral college. Get rid of that, and we have a chance. Otherwise we don't.
To those who think that another Clinton would do the trick in the South: you are forgetting that the man Clinton ran against was not considered much of a "cultural" (read: racist, homophobic) conservative. GWB would beat Clinton in the South because he is "one of them", i.e. a religious fanatic.
Fuck Tennessee. Fuck Nascar. Fuck a "southern strategy". I am glad we nominated a "Massachusettes liberal". Kerry for Prez in '08.
HArdly and inspiring and uplifting message. How about something like this (pretend it isn't me writing it):
I never expected to have to write this, because I believed with every fiber of my being that we were going to win this election. I didn't always, especially early on in the primaries, but in these closing days I could feel the change coming.
But it wasn't meant to be. Perhaps this wasn't our time. Perhaps Fate decided the President should be held to account for his mistakes and has thus refused him a safe and comfortable exit. Maybe it's better in the long run that this administration be forced to write own final chapter.
My friends, I think we already know how it ends, don't we?
We fought hard. No, that's not right. You fought hard. I've never seen such enthusiasm, such positivity, in any political movement. In many ways the great shame of this loss is that many of you might think it was all for not. Mark my words - your voice was heard.
Kerry may have lost, but you can be damn sure that Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz didn't win, either.
This administration knows it can't get away with it anymore. They know we're out here watching everything they do. Let them have Congress and the Presidency, and let history record what they do with them.
Now is not the time to stop fighting, because the fight is all we have. Do not give up. Ever. There is no dishonor in fighting and losing. But there is no honor at all in quitting.
There is much for us to do, and we need to look inside our party and ask why we failed to persuade more Americans or the rightness of our cause (and you should not doubt the rightness of the cause).
But there is one thing we must do, now, today, immediately. My friends, no matter what issue are important to us individually, our troops, our friends and neighbors are dying in Iraq for a lie. They are wondering if we care about them or their families.
We have to bring them home. This is our job now. Call, organize, mobilize, whatever it takes.
Let's bring our countrymen home.
THEY CALL ME PASTABAGEL
There's a lot of wallowing going on here and especiallly over at Kos. I just thought everyone should be reminded that our guy got 55 million votes this time. Gore got about 49 or so... six million new voters for the D's this year. That is 55 million potential party members, donors, activists, candidates, etc. We should start building and organizing around our "base" of 55 million now, and it will pay off after the next summer games. I will be the first to say that whoever is the first to 55 million in 2008 is number 44.
Atrios, thank you for everything. Also I wanted to point out that now it is up to the Democrats to redefine what it means to be a political party. The other side has chosen hate, bigotry, and hysteria. What are we choosing? In our defeat we now have a million opportunities to try new things. Come up with hare-brained ideas about political involvement and try them out. Re-invent politics.
I have said this on other blogs too, so forgive me for double-posting. But I think it's important to remember the non-Democrats who stood up with John Kerry in opposition to Bush. And instead of merely retreating to lefty-land, we can stroll right into the political center that has been abandoned by the right. Because a very large part of those 60,000,000 Bushies voted out of hysteria. That hysteria will fade, and one day they'll wake up to Tom Coburn and Bunning and DeMint and Santorum and every other one of these fools. And they'll be disgusted by the vileness and hatefulness. And they'll want to find a place where they can actually do something about their problems and plan for the future.
Edwards did not control his campaign. The decision on how to use a VP is made at the top of the campaign. Edwards was a good doldier and did what he was told.
BTW- I think his "two Americas" message of his presid. campaign was killer. Why the K/E campaign wouldn't let him use it was beyond me. I bet we're going to hear alot of that when he he runs in '08.
You are all so CORRECT!
The only problem was that you didn't HATE Bush enough. You weren't LEFT enough.
You should have called him a NAZI more.
You should have called him HITLER more.
You should have urged the soldiers to SHOOT THEIR OFFICERS more.
You should have used the word "HALLIBURTON" more.
You shoyuld have called the Swiftvets LIARS more.
Gosh, just a LITTLE BIT MORE HATE and a few more LUNATIC ACCUSATIONS, and I'm sure you would have won.
Sigh. You were SO close.
Next time.
LOL.
_____________
But the truth is: there has been no wipeout of the Democrats.
They almost achieved the win they needed, coming oh-so close, down to the wire in the last state.
Aussie Bob, thanks. So true.
As easy as it is to blame the e-voting machines, I don't think that can account for the popular vote. They would need to throw at least 20% of Kerry votes to Bush, which would have resulted in some VERY unusual results in swing-state precincts. Obviously they need a paper trail. But a far more insidious threat is this massive organization of fundamentalists through their churches and the large-scale disenfranchisement of black voters. We need to figure out solid ways to combat this, and fast!
I've been trying to get my head around last night, and my thoughts have been streaming out at my blog. In short, push "Two Americas," pick Durbin or Harkin for minority leader, and start campaigning on "The Future." That means stem cells, outsourcing, schools and research.
We can win back places like Iowa, Missouri or Nebraska. We have to.
The Murkan people are going to get us all killed unless you all find some place to ride out the coming super storm of converging events. We've got events that will now go unchecked like global warming, nuclear proliferation, rising religious fundamentalism, Peak Oil...
And thanks for your work on this blog. Glad to see you're still with us.
I think we ought to adopt the motto Winston Churchill gave to his memoirs of WWII:
In war, resolution.
In defeat, defiance.
In victory, magnanimity.
In peace, good will.
"
Look, it's not that there is anything wrong with the Democratic Party. It's the American people. They're just not fucking ever going to be worth it. I don't want to ever fucking hear again, "I have faith in the American people."
"
Here here. Couldn't agree more.
just a thought -- what if the economy tanks?
The issue isn't that this was a narrow loss, in both electoral and popular votes... The issue is, can we ever effect change if we can't trust the election outcomes? What's the point in voter mobilization, if they can just rig the results.
I'm not saying they definitely did. I'm saying given all the circumstances, I'm very suspicious.
Without election systems reform as a first step, no Democratic agenda can possible advance.
Did I miss a big chunk of news when I was out of the country the last week of October? Was there a lot of talk about the gay marriage ballot initiatives? Or was it under the radar?
Looks like Jenna Talia would like some personal email.
yes... yes... there is more than one way to skin a lying, corrupt, warmongering, imbecilic rat...
Rove is already crowing that chimpy is the 1st prez since poppy to get a majority of the popular vote. Read: we have a mandate. Typical Rove - say it like it's true, and people will eventually be fatigued into believing it.
51%.
I'm not concerned about gay rights. Gays were around long before and we'll be around long after. Right now, I worried about the planet.
"Under the radar" meaning we didn't think it would drive people to the polls.
Wile E. Odysseus
That said it all.
I have a few disorganized thoughts on this election, and the future, which you can read here if you feel like it.
Given the occasion, and the fact that you folks have come to be very dear to me - in sickness and in health, as the saying is - I hope I can be forgiven this once for blogwhoring!
What do you think of that?
(aside from the crappy grammatical mistakes and I'll be damned if i ever proofread...)
THEY CALL ME PASTABAGEL
It seems clear to me that the Democratic party cannot win with a liberal (or even semi-liberal) from the Northeast - in particular Mass. Such a person just does not go over in the south and mountain regions and that means you have to win nearly every other state with no room for error.
We need to make sure that whoever is nominated in 2008 is FROM the south, the west or the rust belt. Edwards or Gephart probably would have won this election, but we will never know. But NO MORE NORTHERN LIBERALS!
Bob - funny you should say that the chimp will have to clean up the mess. I think that is one of the reasons people voted for him.
See my honey in the streets
It`s desolate but where she likes to meet
Economies gets weaker
Reactionaries stronger
As they get satisfaction on their knees
You rather sail the ocean
Than make
A big
Decision
I won`t function anymore
Plastic bullets shoot headlines in store
Business men get richer
Individual stronger
Bells won`t ring when scum boot down the door
You rather sail the ocean
Than make
A big
Decision
What you`ve gotta do
In this day and age
You gotta agitate
Educate
Organize
Take the time to live
Take the time to give
You gotta agitate
Educate
Organize
See my honey in the street
It`s desolate but where she likes to meet
I`d like to keep her
Make her even sweeter
For anyone who cares to be with me
You rather sail the ocean
Than make
A big
Decision
You rather sail the ocean
Than make
A big
Decision
What you`ve gotta do
In this day and age
You gotta agitate
Educate
Organize
Take the time to live
Take the time to give
You gotta agitate
Educate
Organize
That Petrol Emotion....
"Gosh, just a LITTLE BIT MORE HATE and a few more LUNATIC ACCUSATIONS, and I'm sure you would have won."
Well, it seems to have worked pretty well for you guys.
.
Tomorrow, I will rise to fight the Christo-fascists again.
But today, I'm drinking myself to sleep.
Me and Jesus.
4 years ago, on a leftwing listserv, there was a list of republican supporters, including McMedia, to boycott. I complied. Maybe *now* more are ready to boycott? We need to show corporate 'merica that Bush is not good for them.
Did I miss a big chunk of news when I was out of the country the last week of October? Was there a lot of talk about the gay marriage ballot initiatives? Or was it under the radar?
Completely under the radar.
~waves~
Hi, Minnie! When I woke up after a few fitful hours this morning, the first thing I thought of was that it would be great to hear your cheery voice. We can do this; we can take back our country before it goes completely thuddy-thud-thud.
Ominous:
CNN Breaking News
-- President Bush declares victory in 2004 presidental election telling
supporters "America has spoken."
"They love me! They really love me!"
Gosh, just a LITTLE BIT MORE HATE and a few more LUNATIC ACCUSATIONS
Kind of like you right now. That Book you like to thump, open it and try reading it sometime. No, you don't have to read the whole thing. Just be sure to read Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
I worry about those of who, unlike Atrios apparently, are forced into blue collar jobs (like my parents who both graduate college 20 years ago) or me who is still in school and worrying about future jobs.
First things first. Except for the trolls, of course, I love all you guys.
So, Galaxy Quest rules now. Never give up, never surrender. Expose the lies, hammer the media, take back the country.
On one hand, it'll be much harder, as Dubya's cult of personality is entrenched.
On the other hand, sooner or later the cascade of shit he's heaping on the economy and on the world is going to collapse, and we have to be there to steer it onto his pointy head.
We have to make our Congressmen fight for us. There is, at this point, everything to lose, so therefore nothing to lose. Especially with judgeships, especially with the SCOTUS.
Remember, we are the Good Guys. We are going to save the world and the American Dream -- even for the misguided, deluded, fooled and gamed Repubs who look upon us as the enemy.
The enemy is a very specific group of men and women, hypocritical bastards and criminals one and all, who are closer than they think to the Hague.
We The People are stronger than they.
All we need to do is find the right pressure point, and squeeze it till they drop.
Inside every silver lining, there's a dark cloud!
Wile E. Odysseus--perfect!
Florida 52-48 Bush with 85% reporting.
Sigh. 85% of PRECINCTS. Each of which varies in its amount of voters.
IT'S NOT 85% OF TOTAL VOTES.
If my house and yours are both "precincts," and the three people who live in your house vote Bush, then Bush has 100% of the votes with 50% of precincts reporting. Get it? My house, in which 6 people will vote Bush, is not a factor.
I wish to God they taught people the first fucking thing about the American elction system in our schools.
Philalethes | Email | Homepage | 11.02.04 - 10:43 pm | #
LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!
Talk about a know nothing, Kerry is getting pummeled and Philalfag is lecturing people.
Too fucking funny!!!!!
Mars, Bitches!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
I will join my Family who have begun wearing Black armbands. In part to demonstrate solidarity with John Kerry but also to mourn loss of our country to the conservatives and to keep the momentum going now that things are official. Let's send a message to Republicans that we are serious about being represented with balance in the future.
More good news for dear leader:
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Gunmen kidnapped a Lebanese-American businessman — the second U.S. citizen seized this week in Baghdad — and militants released a tape Wednesday showing the beheading of an Iraqi officer as a warning to those who deal with "the infidel" American troops.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news...cid=514&e=6&u=/
ap/20041103/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_041103174135
White House: Debt Ceiling Must Be Raised
The Republican-controlled Congress put off dealing with the debt ceiling before adjourning in October, preferring not to force members to vote on the politically sensitive issue of adding to the national debt before the November elections.
The government hit the current debt ceiling of $7.384 trillion on Oct. 14, forcing Treasury to begin a series of bookkeeping maneuvers to keep financing the government's normal operations without breaching the debt ceiling. But Treasury Secretary John Snow has warned that those special measures would last only until mid-November.
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=...u=/ap/20041103/
ap_on_go_pr_wh/debt_ceiling_1
Why don't the Dems get it? They just got their ass handed to them in an unambiguous way.
Democrats...your day is done. You have proven that a vehicle of disparate parts held together with a weak ideology is no match for a well-oiled machine grounded in a fundamental philosophy. Unfortunately, the Republicans have chosen Darwinism for their ideology. Even worse is that Democrats can not generate or support an alternative that gets acceptance in our nation.
Democrats, you are ineffective. You are done.
Party leadership should step aside immediately and make way for new thinking that abandons the past. Gone are the hysteric hopes of tree-hugging liberals.
Welcome to a new era of pragmatism that will beat neocon fascism. It's just too bad the Democrats couldn't be a part of the revolution.
hadenuf: Dream on. You wouldn't be able to keep up.
Snow: I'm more of an Old Testament person, myself. Thanks!
LOL.
_____________
What Is To Be Done
First, thanks for the tremendous job you've done Duncan. This was a close election, not a blow out. We need to pick up another 5% of the electorate.
Areas we need to concentrate: 1) fundamentalists (we need to siphon off 10%+ of their base) 2) white men 3) working class people 3)Catholics 4) small town & rural folk (10%+ pick up). We need to speak to these people in their language & out of their concerns. No speaking down to or disparagingly of them as #s of people here do. Working class people tend not to be up on the issues & often are misinformed (no wonder, given the lack of ongoing discussions of policy issues in the media + media bias).
Our economic agenda is their agenda. Its a matter of organizing & getting the word out. One ex., create an umbrella organization called Christians for other Christians that is rooted in fundamentalist churches that are sympathetic to an economic message. Things such as overtime pay, minimum wage, adequate healthcare. Emphasis that this comes out of Christ's message of doing good works.
More later.
You're too much Atrios. I'm one of the gloating trolls that stop by. So, it's on the next one, eh? You folks do not get it, your ilk is doomed with your America-hate mindset, you do not even realize it. No one here trusts the result? What would it take 75 mil to 25 mil? I live in Philly and observed many polls in my area, it was MoveOn and corroupt Demos that were working things to fraud the exit polls, intimidtate folks. Why can't you fess up and see that? So the Prez now knows you're watching and he can't get away with it? I say, full bore on his adgenda, screw you nutballs, he'll prove out his successes and pessimistic haters like you will be proven for what you are.
"We need to make sure that whoever is nominated in 2008 is FROM the south, the west or the rust belt. Edwards or Gephart probably would have won this election, but we will never know. But NO MORE NORTHERN LIBERALS!"
I'm sorry but this is simply the wrong way to think about things. Do you really think Rove & co wouldn't have convinced every hillbilly in the South that Edwards was just a liberal in Southern clothing?
Plus, they'd go on about his hair, probably insinuate that he's really gay. And the sad part is it would probably work with all the ignorant hicks.
Dems need to write off the South, concentrate on abolishing the Electoral College. Trust me, this is our only chance.
.
First president in 16 years to win a majority of the vote.
Take THAT, daddy!
Recieved more votes than any president in history.
In a growing country, yes. Math are hard [finger in nose]
Expanded Republican control of the House.
Expanded Republican control of the Senate.
Yes, with even moderate Republicans giving way to more extreme, hallucinating Jesus-freak Republicans.
Let the hilarity begin!
.
"What matters isn't what was done wrong, but what needs to be done right for the '06 elections.
The 100 million dollar question.
Any ideas?"
--You might want to start by trying Democracy for America.
I think I will move to Massachusetts so I can continue to see and vote for Sen. Kerry. THANK GOD HE WILL STILL BE IN THE SENATE. He is a new man.
I miss him already.
The tears won't stop.
Worst case scenario: A fascist corporate dictatorship, with corporations running the government, fundamentalists running the president, another war to get oil from Iran or Syria, another terrorist attack, public prayer obligatory, other religions forced to be silent, gays executed by stoning, jail for blasphemy, long term internment for criticizing a War President, etc. No joy for civil rights.
I'm not sure if I want a bottle in front of me or a frontal lobotomy...
really bad...the world will suffer...
Some Comfort Can Be Found Here
Don't stop fighting! Dems in '06!
Let's nixon Bush!
Nixon Bush, nixon Bush, nixon Bush.
Wow. Bush won reelection, and our trolls still can't read.
So sad. They 'own' us. They have no idea what they 'own.'
This hegemon has not ceased to be hilarious.
.
I think we need to build a grassroots effort to secede from the Union and separate from the freaks, if anything. I know it's not plausible but it's really the only solution. Because they're taking us all down.
my thoughts, exactly
GOP,
You're the reason I keep my 1911 cleaned, ready, and well-fed.
From Hugh Hewitt, talking about the only real gentlemen in an election last night:
Pete Coors is a gentleman. Trailing by less than 50,000 votes out of nearly 1.8 million and with 12% of Colorado's precincts yet to be tallied, Pete nevertheless took a calm look at the numbers and called Ken Salazar to concede. Classy.
Contrast that with Tom Daschle, Tony Knowles and Betty Castor, and of course John Kerry. No reasonable interpretation of the data in any of these races can give any of these candidates a win, but they are hanging on.
This is not the conduct of a great party, but it is also not surprising for the party of Michael Moore. What an example for the new democracies in Afghanistan and Iraq. Perhaps sleep will bring wisdom to this group. Sleep, and a good hard look at what Al Gore has become.
With the pick up of a net four seats in the United States Senate, the GOP is in a position to force votes on the president's judicial nominees. That is the major story for next week, after a concession is wrong from Kerry.
Congratulations President Bush, the first president since his father to carry a pure majority of the popular vote.
Keep bitching though, it's very mature.
I own you Moff.
Mars, BITCH!!!!!!!!!!
GreatDarkSpot,
What if New Englanders are as bigoted as southerners?
Incognito - Your attitude is why we Must find out if there was voter fraud involved. If so, then you can't just pin it on the stupidity of the average American. If not, well, D'Tocville warned us about the "tyranny of the majority", and if the majority of Americans want a moron in the White House, we're going to continue to get a moron in the White House.
WWKRD to break up those red states if he were a Democrat? He would find and fund a physically attractive candidate to the right of me and get that candidate on the ballot in as many of the red states as possible. He would start today and never leave a print.
Gosh, just a LITTLE BIT MORE HATE and a few more LUNATIC ACCUSATIONS, and I'm sure you would have won.
Um, hate to be the bringer of good news, but the lunatics, as you call them, did win.
Congratulations.
.
ok -- i screwed it up -- theses are my thoughts, exactly:
http://www.foomart.com/images2/advisory.gif
Face it, we Democrats are now a minority party. That much was made abundantly clear yesterday, as we lost both the presidential election, and suffered a net loss in senate and house seats.
The Republicans out gamed us yet again. As we clung to our morals and refused to participate in "dirty politics," they happily kept pounding us over and over. And it worked. It worked spectacularly.
If Democrats hope to fight back in 2006, we are going to have to stoop to their level. We can no longer rely on the "nice guy" routine, because that dog don't hunt anymore. Poisonous, vicious attacks based on half truths will need to be par for the course. Such is the consequence of 21st century politics.
Also, we need a Karl Rove. We need one guy deciding each and every political message we attempt to espouse, and we need ALL of our surrogates to follow that message upon penalty of being excluded from the group. We need a giant high definition video screen on stage at our convention, like the sparkly one the Republicans had. We need to learn how to sell ourselves as the Republicans do. We need to stop acknowledging our own weakness and pretend we don't make any mistakes. We need to point out EVERY mistake the other guys make.
Democrats tried to use facts and figures to rationalize our positions. Republicans used snazzy, high quality, simple messages which were not based in reality, yet were much more effective. Democrats appealed to the people's minds. Republicans appealed to the people's hearts. We saw how well that strategy worked.
The only silver lining out of all this is the impending frustration our citizens will experience with the Republican Party because of the mess created in Iraq, the deficit, and the economy.
If America thought things were bad after 9/11, they haven't seen anything yet. We are headed for a major recession in 2005. The Democrats will have to constantly attack the Republicans with well crafted, consolidated messages if we want to win in 2006 and beyond.
Today, I mourn for the impending shitstorm facing our Country. Tommorrow, I renew my vigorous fight against the establishment, which will now overwhelmingly control all 3 branches of government.
Congratulations chimp, the mess is now officially all yours. The world wants nothing to do with you. All yours!
I've posted my thoughts on where to go from here at my blog as well...
I tend to suspect that the Black Box voting played a part, but I don't care to push that angle much (although a Freedom of Information request has been made by BlackBoxVoting.org).
I think that just as we have to understand why terrorists attack our citizens before we can effectively eliminate (or significantly reduce) it, we need to understand why we lost this election.
It's easy to blame the media weenies that were all too willing to propagate the Bush/Cheney caricatures of Kerry, but there is something much bigger at play and that is the American electorate's gullibility to the caricatures and lies that Bush/Cheney fed them from September 11 on.
At this point, let America have its incompetent George Bush. We must get out now and convince them they made a mistake in ways in which they won't think we're calling them stupid.
We need to not pander to them, but we do need to ask them why they preferred incompetence over competence; why they preferred fear-mongering over pragmatism; why they preferred unilateralism over cooperation; why they preferred war-mongering over peaceful solutions;.
Disillusionment is a key step to understanding. Once the Hun is in control of the electoral process it is useless to try to defeat him there.
Six months ago I posted on this board that the fight wasn't in the political realm, but in the inexorable conflict that has arisen as Christian, Jewish and Islamic fundamentalists fight back against the expansion of consciousness. The keepers of the tables in the temple were never going to turn over power without a fight. I was flamed that day by Tena, who pointed out (correctly) that this was a progressive political website, and that if I didn't believe in the process this wasn't the place for me. I had to agree.
Today, in light of the thoroughly predictable questions surrounding black box voting machines and inexplicably wrong exit poll numbers in Diebold states, I think many of us can see there is no use knocking on the castle door. We must either storm the castle, or make a nice life in the meadow.
I'm not going to fight against the Hun, but I'm not going to contribute to his carnage, either. I won't be their monkey. I don't need a plasma TV or an SUV or even a new shirt, for that matter. I'll pay my rent and I'll buy enough rice to keep myself fed, but no more. I won't feed any more money to the machines that are paying for and benefitting from the policies of war. The rich are more commited to being rich than they are to being fascist, so only in this way can I hope to bring about change. All the rest is window dressing.
Uhhh, I know everyone is feeling bad, and in need of a jolt of hope. However, this "Onward without a post mortem" thesis is pure balderdash. How often do Democratic candidates have to keep repeating the same mistakes before it's OK to be self-critical, according to this view? For example, what are the lessons of the whole Swift Boat fiasco--go nuclear, and go legal, instead of letting it sit out there? Whoever the next candidate is, they'll have to deal with some kind of attack like the Swift Boat Veterans campaign. And they'd better do a better job than the Kerry campaign did in handling it at the outset.
I'm ashamed that Kerry conceded right away. I'm furious that he did it in the name of national unity. Frankly, I want a candidate who will fight for the people who stood eight hours in the rain to vote for him. A few more days of saying, "Let's wait until all the results are in," would provide the political cover under which a genuine investigation of voter suppression, electronic voting errors, and other hijinks might proceed. Now, I'd be amazed if a real inquiry happened.
And, as many people have already pointed out, who exactly has worked hard to divide the nation? I'm sick of this script where Republican hooligans go wilding, create political carnage, and then the Democrats, poor chumps that they are, try to make nice with them "so that we don't divide the country further."
That's utter, utter crap. The Roves of the world won't back down unless they're afraid of you. They'll be encouraged in their methods, and divide the country further in the prosecution of their campaigns, if you back down. Who here doubts that lesson from the last few years?
This election was a fiasco for the Democrats. It should have been a triumph. The "onward, onward" sounds like an echo of the neocons--no need to worry what went wrong, or who's responsible, just keep forging ahead. If Terry McAuliffe and other DNC leaders can't answer the criticisms that any clear-headed post mortem of the campaign would raise, they should be sacked.
Dems need to write off the South, concentrate on abolishing the Electoral College
...uhh - we lost the popular vote too?
I dont think it is worth the fight - I believe that there are too many jeebus freeks out there. Giving up the south and all of jeebus-land is too much - ohio could not deliver this time!
i am telling you bush has not really passed many faith-based laws...we can run with an evangelical Democrat!
I hope of thoes 18- 29 years olds that did not vote look forward to getting drafted and going to Iraq, Iran, Seria or Paskistan to die.
Vote or die was not a joke!
I believe we did all we could to win this rigged election. Get rid of thoes back boxes.
The Sins of America are on the hands of G. W. Bush, May God punish him for his EVIL , I hope very soon. Nixon played a heavy price for his SINS.
Keep Hope ALIVE!
You can stick around till 06, I'm done.
Listen up NASCAR dads
You win
I give up
I hate my country and no longer want to be a part of it, I am moving overseas hopefully never to return
You win
Now you can make the whole country as great as your home states of Mississippi, Alabama, Kentucky or the Carolinas.
Have fun,
Welcome to the third world.
Bubye
Unfortunately, the Republicans have chosen Darwinism for their ideology.
Evolution has nothing to do with thuggery.
You can stick around till 06, I'm done.
Listen up NASCAR dads
You win
I give up
I hate my country and no longer want to be a part of it, I am moving overseas hopefully never to return
You win
Now you can make the whole country as great as your home states of Mississippi, Alabama, Kentucky or the Carolinas.
Have fun,
Welcome to the third world.
Bubye
"Why don't the Dems get it? They just got their ass handed to them in an unambiguous way.
Democrats...your day is done. You have proven that a vehicle of disparate parts held together with a weak ideology is no match for a well-oiled machine grounded in a fundamental philosophy. Unfortunately, the Republicans have chosen Darwinism for their ideology. Even worse is that Democrats can not generate or support an alternative that gets acceptance in our nation.
Democrats, you are ineffective. You are done.
Party leadership should step aside immediately and make way for new thinking that abandons the past. Gone are the hysteric hopes of tree-hugging liberals.
Welcome to a new era of pragmatism that will beat neocon fascism. It's just too bad the Democrats couldn't be a part of the revolution."
--And I thought yesterday put the final nail in the coffin of the DLC. I guess I was wrong.
--More "Republican Lite" seems to be the recommendation of so many people (and I know a lot of them are trolls) posting here.
Thanks for the info, Jenna Talia. Now, are you the porn star that likes to take it hardcore in the ass, or are you just simply a dope who likes to take it hardcore in the ass?
Either way, you'll be just fine for the next couple of years.
Smooches!
Congratulations.
.
Grand Moff Texan
Thank you.
Now kiss it, Bitch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They STOLE another election. Come on, I feel this truth as much as I felt that there were no WMD's. So please, please please... can someone give me a specific? Where do I go now? I have no money to donate now. But I have the energy that at the moment I can only focus on an increasingly seething anger. I am sickened.
Anonymous,
I enlisted when your president and vice-president ran and hid, that's how much I hate America.
I worked the polls yesterday and I'm happy to say I saw no shenanigans from the GOP.
But I didn't see any from our side, either.
So go peddle crazy someplace else, we're all full up here.
"Hate America"? Jesus, get a new script.
I'm sorry I've been a real bitch lately, Bush won fairly and we should all realize that and just try to get by with the legitimate power of the Republicans
The good & slightly unexpected goo news is that Montana of all places voted for Brian Sweitzer a democrat & against the Republican candidate Bob Brown.
I think you can thank the previous Republican govs Mark Racicot & Judy Martz who left the Montana economy in a 3rd world condition.
The voter here were ready for change in state goverment.
One ex., create an umbrella organization called Christians for other Christians that is rooted in fundamentalist churches that are sympathetic to an economic message. Things such as overtime pay, minimum wage, adequate healthcare. Emphasis that this comes out of Christ's message of doing good works.
More later.
Carter
That will always be trumped by stoking self-righteous hatred for gays which the repukes are maters of.
"Disillusionment is a key step to understanding. Once the Hun is in control of the electoral process it is useless to try to defeat him there."
Lovely thought - let's bring down the economy!
sorry, in the previous message;
goo=good
Let's not forget the recent study by the Program on International Policy Attitudes (Univ. of Md) about how poorly Bush's own supporters understand his positions.
I think it suggests a possible avenue of opportunity for the future.
They think they know Bush, but they don't know dick.
Link under "Homepage".
I'm not glad I was alive to witness the death of democracy in America. I can only hope it's sleeping, and its gonna wake up with a big mo-fo hangover and be really hungry.
Awesome, Kingdaddy. Thanks.
I'm sorry to hear that, Jenna Talia. You must know Jesus in order to be saved. Don't worry though, with four more years of Shrub, we'll make everyone a Xian.
It's a very good day to ignore trolls, IMO.
They weren't going anywhere no matter who won...give 'em a miss today, and beat up on 'em again tomorrow!
Damn, still no emails from the KE04 campaign in my inbox. Are they just going to wait until tomorrow to thank us? We need motivation today.
How can anyone 'own' anything if they have no game?
You, troll, have no game. (Which is why I'm thinking your a fake troll.)
I guess everyone is medicating their sorrows differently. Me? I'm reading Bill Bennet and relishing the sight of the far right putting a gun to its head! C'mon, guys! You can make America the kind of theocracy the Taliban could only DREAM of!
.
andy sounds worried. I thought he would enjoy himself in jail.
From TPM:
http://www.andrewsullivan.com/in...h_inc=archives/
2004_10_31_dish_archive.html#109950616544439177
"...uhh - we lost the popular vote too?
"
Yeah, but this doesn't mean much in a campaign that was completely structured around the EC, and therefore a handful of states. Motivation to go out and vote if you live in CA or NY is low; temptation to vote 3rd party is high.
If the EC were gone, each side would just have to concentrate on getting as many people to the polls as possible --- not just as many people in Ohio and Florida. No more mushy middle campaigns. Let's have it out. Your guys against our guys. See who wins.
The EC is inherently advantageous to the Right.
'02, '04, now '06?
i wonder if the damage will be irreparable by then? as Lima said, it's all theirs now. fuck it.
Bye, Rob!
Be sure to take some of your friends obverseas with you!
LOL.
_____________
They weren't going anywhere no matter who won...give 'em a miss today, and beat up on 'em again tomorrow!
Philalethes
Beat up on 'em?? didn't see the results yet huh?
And now we have a namestealer.
Like I said: no game.
No one here trusts the result? What would it take 75 mil to 25 mil?
How about votes that follow the exit polls like they normally do and a paper trail we can verify? Not an e-voting system that can be rigged without us knowing and a system moreover owned by a republican committed to Bush.
So fuck you trolls.
This was no great victory for you.
amen!
let's get organized and fight on.
My, the trolls are so superior. You can kiss my liberal ass when all the social progress in the last 100 years disappears.
You will be suffering along with the liberals, fools.
Oh, and atrios, I understand your sentiments about not sitting around and wollowing or engaging in a blame game. A lot of it is not constructive.
On the other hand, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.
In terms of national elections, the Dems are now 0 for the past 3. And in all of these elections, they've more or less let the DLC and DLC types dictate much if not all of their strategies.
If one doesn't look at what the nature of that "same thing" the Dems keep doing wrong is, then how does anyone expect to break out of a losing formula?
The EU will take care of the corporate wanna-rule-the-world group. Interesting book, THE UNITED STATES OF EUROPE. They took care of Welch.
Now 55 million of us get to blame the Repubs for EVERYTHING: spiraling deficit, big big federal government, nation building, special interests. Never let up; never take the heat off. Haliburton, how are you today???
We have a voice and we are not alone; the EU is farther left than most of us!! This is a WORLD economy, and it is, for better and worse, ONE world. We are not alone. Let the Bushies crow today. They are digging their graves. I just wish they weren't digging the graves of so many others while they're at it.
Yes, dear Republicans, there still are NO WMDs, and lots more weapons/munitions for the terrorists thanks to you!!! AND, there are lots more terrorists with nothing to lose who are just seriously wanting to die killing you. Oh, we all feel MUCH safer now!!!
Also, Thersites has a wonderful post here.
Random comment I'll be making a lot: no more concession speeches. Ever. Doesn't just mean for President, I mean for US Senate, US House, State Senate, State House, Governor, all the way down. I'm tired of that bullshit. Make people stop expecting them.
I want everyone running for office as a Democrat to have to sign a contract forbidding them for conceding before their opponent has actually taken office. End the practice of concessions entirely.
You can pretend you are smarter, more sophisticated and had the better message from the better messenger. You can pretend that widespread voter fraud happened under the noses of all the poll watchers and lawyers. You can pretend that 58 million people were wrong.
But if you live in a reality-based world you need to know that you just plain lost. It wasn't dirty tricks because both sides played them. It wasn't voter fraud. Is wasn't that you didn't have the media on your side.
It was that we had the message and messenger that appealed to more people. The vote got out and rejected you.
So if you want to be competetive you need to figure out where you went wrong. Don't take the vitcim mentality. You weren't had. You lost it all on your own.
Bad messenger, mixed up message.
I honestly think they don't want to know the truth. It's painful.
Yes, it's painful to realize that we all live on a little round ball in space whose creatures spend a very large amount of time running around hating and killing each other.
The fool hath said in his heart that there is no God - but the fool is right so you can hardly blame him for making One up.
I hate this motherfucking planet, sometimes.
Zwei Volk! Ein Amerika! Ein Reich!
Hmmm, how's this gonna work?
Not going to be pretty for the square pegs, folks. I could hope the thug penchant for being even more horrible in their actions than my most paranoid imaginings can concieve of won't continue. Not sure I can, but I could. Damn near a "to be or not to be" moment. Sticks and stones may break your bones, but slings and arrows really fucking hurt! Some serious despair at the loss of the concept that was AMERICA, the shining ideal of tolerance and decency and honor that we never quite delivered on, but we at least tried to more often than not. Our Bu$histocracy hasn't shown any such constraints, nor belief in those ideals, and you'd have to be a hell of an optimist on PCP to think they'll develop new spots after this. We can only survive and keep the dream alive, and pass on the belief in living in the real world in the present dimension to our children and as many people around us as possible. Reality....what a concept. (RW) Not much of one this morning!
But the damn sun will be up tomorrow, though the world it shines down upon will still really suck, and life will go on,(for those fortunate enough not to be in front of Amerika's gunsights,anyway.) What will be hard work is going to be picking ourselves up, brushing ourselves off, taking a deep breath,and then hitting them with everything we have, every minute, every day, every way. No surrender, no retreat, no mercy, no cooperation. Plamegate, Abu Graib, and the myriad crimes these varmits have commited need to be shoved down their throats. Nominations need to be blocked at every turn............ Damn, that dumbass has no idea how hard of work living for more tears under his rule is going to be. Give me strength,'cuz fuck, this is gonna be hard work! Make that No Choice, No Surrender! Oh? Feeling vy disappointed in JFk, conceeding without waiting for a full and accurate count. Democratic surrender monkeys should be ostricized and disposed of, or there is little left of the Left. Seems as though every path is filled with booby traps; Masada, Brown's Ferry, Ft. Sumter, the Alamo, Gulags, Exodus, Jeez, the historical possibilities are endless, and none too pleasant. Yet I would rather drink Jim Jones' Kool-aid than gwb's. Resistance, futile or not, is going to be what we have to do, if and when we get over the shell shock and PTSS from last night. I'll be damned if I'm going to be assimilated, Fuck the Borg in all their collective orifices. Gonna fight the good fight whatever the cost, whatever the consequence. With or without hope.
Please excuse the jumbled ramblings of a lifetime Lib, manning my oar in the express handbasket to points unknown. Atlas was a sissy, progressives in today's America face a much heavier burden. Arbeit macht frei. Sure is tiring, when on a four year shift,with a rollercoaster wreck at the end,though.
WIsh you all strength, thanks to all you Atriots for getting me thru
The anti-gay marriage thing was impossible to defend. Democrats are often in favor of gay marriage, and gay marriage is more likely under Democrat-appointed judges. We just didn't want them to think about it that way.
Someone on this blog always mentions "framing." Well, "sanctity of marriage" is one of the most successful frames of the last few years. Because it has successfully conflated two separate concepts: civil marriage, which is not sacred; and church marriage, which is. (They also refer to straight marriage as "natural marriage." Which would of course make any other kind "unnatural marriage." Lovely.)
Hey Anonymous....perhaps you can explain something to me.
How is it moral that a President lies and as a result, our children are dying? How is it moral that he can devastate the environment, leave our children behind, cut benefits/pay for our military, and basically just be a lazy, incompetent bastard? HOW THE FUCK IS THAT MORAL?
I really would like an explanation because if you can convince me that he is moral, then I will try very hard to convince myself that up is down, black is white, right is wrong, killing is good, and will bow to your obvious higher moral authority.
The only thing this election proves is that Diebold did their job, and there are a lot of very, very stupid people in this country.
How about votes that follow the exit polls like they normally do and a paper trail we can verify? Not an e-voting system that can be rigged without us knowing and a system moreover owned by a republican committed to Bush.
So fuck you trolls.
This was no great victory for you.
spooked
Uhhh... the voting didn't follow the exit polls last time either. You can't take exit polls with biased sampling and get a good estimate.
First, five days to sleep, clean house, go grocery shopping, etc.
Then, in no particular order:
1) A media project - we must make the media fear us as much as they fear the GOP, or we will never be able to get our message out past the noise. We must also have an easily digested, message to spread.
2) A close look at and overhaul of all of the state organizations - I have heard that the Ohio organization, for instance, is so weak as to be non-existent. That must change.
3) Let's bring some accountability to the e-voting industry. Paper receipts for all.
4) Rolling and regular voter registration initiatives - let's not wait til the 11th hour to get folks registered. People move, their circumstances change, let's make constant efforts to keep them properly registered in the system, so there's less opportunity for bullshit challenges at the polls.
5) Ongoing volunteerism at the very local levels - I finally canvassed over the past two weeks, after two years of telling myself that I really should get involved. You've got to be in it to win it.
By the way, all - thanks for the encouragement and good company over the past couple of years.
Dems need to write off the South, concentrate on abolishing the Electoral College. Trust me, this is our only chance.
I'm still processing what's happened, but you just may be right. Running a southerner wouldn't have helped -- Al Gore was from Tennessee. Our southerner wouldn't have been "southern" enough for them.
I'm not sure how we do win, but I don't think it will be with surface stuff like Kerry going hunting or picking someone named Billy who's a Baptist from Mississippi -- unless Billy the Baptist from Mississippi is the best candidate.
WIsh you all strength, thanks to all you Atriots for getting me thru the last couple years of Purgatory, Hell dead ahead, RAMMING SPEED! Stroke, dogs of both genders,(and naught!) Mars still awaits. To Dubya and minions, URANUS, Bitchlings!
Hmmmm....this gold trim looks good on my robe
Excuse me, but "Americans love George Bush" is a crock. 54,679,000+-EXPLICITLY REPUDIATED BUSH.
Jersey Tomato,
Those are all very good ideas.
Bye Rob, we will miss you at Daytona this year, NOT!
I can't wait to see Skerry in handcuffs for his traitorous activities with the enemy.
Book em Dano!
Democracy ain't dead...but it is taking a very long nap. Under heavy sedation.
Volunteering as a poll monitor was incredibly educational and useful for me as an activist. I learned things about how the polls work that would curl your hair.
For instance, one polling place in Houston (in a non-battleground state, mind you) where there were not only cops stationed outside all day every day, but a k-9 unit. With the dog out of the car, on the leash, ready to roll.
Yes, it was a minority neighborhood--why do you ask?
Other things--people will be thrown out of polling places on the thinnest of excuses, because the judges are overwhelmed and undertrained and, frankly, scared. When someone knowledgeable and polite goes back in with them, *poof*, they are allowed to vote.
The election judge actually came out to me at one point to tell me about how bad the e-slate voting system was working. She asked me to contact my organization because the situation was very serious and, as she saw it, I had more power than she did.
Anyway, I'm much better-armed as an activist now. I have data. One of the keys is that we're going to have to be on the spot, all the time.
Look for comments about this from Sheila Jackson Lee. I'm hoping for hearings soon.
"I hate this motherfucking planet, sometimes."
Just think of earth as a primitive, barbarian world and it gets easier.
Well, I've voted dem for my first and last time, trading in the blue for some nice foresty green, thank you very much.
I also like the secession idea. They can have their flyover country, just stay the fuck out of the northeast please.
Oh by the way who won the dabetes?
GWB that who, lol.
Book em Dano!
Instead of trying to figure out how to change the minds of voters in the red states, wouldn't it be easier to infiltrate them. What if we developed liberal oasis cities in some of the relatively low population red states? This would be relatively cheap and easy to do - buying land in Wyoming is cheap and someone like George Soros could fund liberal minded businesses that could bring liberal job seekers.
It just seems like we shouldn't be trying to figure out how to win on their terms.
"
Excuse me, but "Americans love George Bush" is a crock. 54,679,000+-EXPLICITLY REPUDIATED BUSH.
"
Okay, to be more explicit: the MAJORITY of Americans love George Bush.
Then consider the other 100 million who didn't care enough to vote, and you've got 3/4 of the country that is basically satisfied with GWB.
And for one of those fourths, he's their fucking messiah.
.
I seem to recall that there was some talk that the Republicans who were falsely challenging Ohio voters before the election might be subject to prosecution for breaking some laws. If true, then I think making sure those prosecutions happen is where we begin. If we don't want that sort of thing to happen again, then we need to make sure people realize there are consequences for trying to suppress the vote.
How about getting some infiltrators into the Repuglican election machine. Deep cover, that sort of thing. Any willing virgins with untouched political records out there?
"GWB that who, lol." [sic]
That's fantastic.
Shit! Iam beginning to feel energized! There are 49% of Americans pissed at the Repugnants right now!
Let's see - what are their weaknesses and how can we augment them? How can we torture them? Let's irritate them - we can without fear now. Let's nixon Bush.
I'm not sure how we do win, but I don't think it will be with surface stuff like Kerry going hunting or picking someone named Billy who's a Baptist from Mississippi -- unless Billy the Baptist from Mississippi is the best candidate.
Hecate
Finally someone admits it, "I'm not sure how we do win" should be the Democratic slogan. HAHAHAHA Big old FOAD to Hecate cause I told you I'd be back on election day, but luckily no concession for you biznitch. I hope you cry tonight for you pompous pres-wannabe's loss. Now You really won't have to hear from me ever again. I've got what I want. I win, you lose hecate. "Icky" enough for you???? Please leave the country now in an orderly fashion.
"Instead of trying to figure out how to change the minds of voters in the red states, wouldn't it be easier to infiltrate them. What if we developed liberal oasis cities in some of the relatively low population red states? This would be relatively cheap and easy to do - buying land in Wyoming is cheap and someone like George Soros could fund liberal minded businesses that could bring liberal job seekers.
"
Much easier to ABOLISH THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE!!
I think.
.
Hey Dave,
If you'd like to discuss Vietnam, and Kerry's record, I'm inviting you to pay a visit to North Carolina.
C'mon. It's a red state. How dangerous could it be?
And I know you have as much courage as your president, so I'll leave the light on.
Excuse me, but "Americans love George Bush" is a crock.
Right. And even though Bush (reportedly said) that "America has spoken", what everyone has to realize is that America was saying two distinctly different things.
Jenna Talia,
I want to see how much you laugh when they outlaw birth control pills.
Pretty sad that I'm resting all hope of women's continued education and advancement on the greed of the pharmaceutical companies. But that's all we got now.
And I hope you and the rest of the base enjoy the increasing rate of abortions under Bush, and I hope you get all giddy when the Chinese call in that massive debt Bush used to finance his great Iraqi adventure.
obverseas
doesn't that mean "under water"?
.
I was just thinkin'. Maybe old Mr. Former Prosecutor Kerry, old Mr. Investigator Kerry doesn't have so much to lose anymore.
So what if the media calls it sour grapes. I think there's some fresh investigatin' to do.
Not like he'd be on the streets if he pissed people off and got fired.
How long before Terezaaa divorces Kerry?
Want to start the predictions here?
I am guessing 8 months.
Or right after he is arrested for Treason.
Book em Dano!
Thanks, Atrios, and thanks fellow Eschatonians, you have helped me stay sane and put my profound grief in perspective.
Kerry still rocks. Clinton rocks.
Grief, sadness here in Maine like nothing I've seen since 9/11. While running an errand on my lunch break, a stanger came up to me in a parking lot to ask me "Why? Kerry promised all votes would count? Why?" The woman was practically in tears, didn't even ask my political persuasion.
This isn't just like 2000, at least not here in the northeast. The anger & disgust is palpable. We will carry Democratic ideals forward!!!
"America has spoken."
Math, apparently, is not the fascist's strong suit.
Here's the breakdown among eligible voters:
42% did not vote
30% fascist chimp
28% Kerry.
Not good for us, but not exactly a ringing endorsement for the Christo-fascists either.
The fact is that neither party appeals to many Americans. The Dems are not too far left, just too irrelevant & the Repubs have been hijacked by lunatics.
Ladies and Gents :
Kerry didnt loose it ..Edwards didnt loose it.....the youth vote didnt loose it ....We lost it and we lost it to the CHURCH!!!!!!!!
We have a State church now .....Let that settle ..now pray ......
Ladies and Gents :
Kerry didnt loose it ..Edwards didnt loose it.....the youth vote didnt loose it ....We lost it and we lost it to the CHURCH!!!!!!!!
We have a State church now .....Let that settle ..now pray ......
If you'd like to discuss Vietnam, and Kerry's record, I'm inviting you to pay a visit to North Carolina.
C'mon. It's a red state. How dangerous could it be?
And I know you have as much courage as your president, so I'll leave the light on.
cosmic grappler
Reduced to empty online chat threats. Very macho and definitely shows that it has hit rock bottom.
Hey I'm a southern redneck also and I dont scare so easy.
Book em Dano!
Beat up on 'em?? didn't see the results yet huh?
Anonymous
Bush's re-election does nothing to validate you or your intellect or anything else. It doesn't make you "right"; nothing could. Bush being in power for four years didn't make you smart or right, and neither will four more years.
See, it's a different approach to politics altogether. My feelings about myself, and my beliefs, don't depend on my guy winning or losing. You might've gone to pieces if Bush had lost, or killed yourself, or whatever....but you probably wouldn't have decided that Kerry was the better man.
As for me, I will neither go to pieces, nor kill myself, nor decide that Bush is the better man. A weakling is a weakling even when he's sitting on a throne, and people who worship weaklings are beneath contempt no matter how many of them there are, and no matter what victories they achieve. Didn't you know that? It's one of history's more obvious lessons.
Anyway, now that that's cleared up, I think I'll take a walk. See ya in the funny papers, trolls!
Then again, abolishing the EC wouldn't be easy. Amending the COnstitution is a bitch; the process is set up similarly to the damn EC if I remember correctly.
Next time I hear someone prattling on about the wisdom of the Founding Fathers I am going to punch them in the face.
.
Jersey Tomato, I'm with you on those goals. We're rebuilding the Texas party after it was abandoned after shrub's election as governor. (Literally--there was almost no state dem party. We can NEVER get that dispirited again.)
I think we've also got to raise our individual tolerance for discomfort. Block-walking and phone-banking are not that much fun, but...tough. Locally, our party had candidates that literally would not campaign! (This is a small city with rural attitudes and they never had to do that before.) It made them uncomfortable to campaign. Surprise, surprise--they lost.
And as a party, we do have to get tougher. No, no more concession speeches before things are truly over. No more candidates that won't work their ass off. We're not playing any more.
btw, please keep in mind that lots of us live in "flyover country", and one reason some of our neighbors voted for and gave money to Bush is that they think the Democratic party sees them as nothing but idiots living in "flyover country".
Of course the trolls can't just be happy their guy won. They're still the same insecure schmucks they always were. Winning or losing wouldn't change that.
We, on the other hand, are now the insurgency. Our IEDs will be ideas, our minds are our weapons. We will stand and we will be a constant pain in the ass. A monkey in the wrench. We will not go gentle into that good night and we will rage, rage toward the taming of the right.
Kingdaddy - I COMPLETELY agree with you...the rapid concession just buries the evidence and disrepects those who stood in line for hours and who worked our asses of to try to secure a victory. I am completely disgusted with Kerry and with the American people who voted for corruption and lies.
While Kerry was definitely not my first choice, I backed him seriously and sent him and the Dems more money than I could really afford - but it was worth it - I felt it was THAT important. His (Kerry's) not fighting pisses me off and affronts MY committment to our effort.
Lets think long and hard and talk long and hard about what we need to do - not sweep it under the rug...
Jersey Tomato, I was thinking along similar lines:
50 million Americans are a potential market for a liberal radio and TV network. WHERE ARE YOU LIBERAL MEDIA MOGULS?
We need uniform, secure, transparent election process in which has verification procedures built into it. It must be built by a public, non-political agency. Anyone who works on it cannot be partisan, must have a high security clearance, and if caught trying to rig the system in any way should go to jail automatically for 25 years. Tampering with an election is morally unacceptable and should be a federal crime.
Make people understand that unregulated, predatory capitalism will not work for them as individuals unless they are billionaire corporate owners. In the future, since everything will be apportioned on the basis of loyalty and connections, and nothing on merit and hard work, you will have to be one of them to get anywhere, or you will have to suck up to them, at a minimum, to get a few crumbs (until they tire of you).
42% did not vote
30% fascist chimp
28% Kerry.
It's more like:
42% did not vote (didn't feel things were bad enough to get off their ass and vote for a change, so their fine with what they got)
30% Bush = 5.8 Million+ and the most votes for a president ever.
28% Kerry = Nice try, insert quarter for next game.
Jersey, of course that last was not directed at you.
We better get some good bumper stickers out of this from unamerican.com. I vote for "Malaise Forever." Or "Don't Blame Me, I Voted For Kodos."
Kerry surrendered. Quickly. Without even a whimper.
And his party agrees?
Shame on you.
Here's an idea: avoid use of the term 'United States'. From now on, always specify 'red states' or 'blue states'. Or take a que from the old Blitzkreig game and call 'em 'Great Blue' and 'Big Red'. We need to build a new consciousness
Remember, Anonymous, Nixon won 2 terms also. We know how THAT turned out.
And I hope you and the rest of the base enjoy the increasing rate of abortions under Bush, and I hope you get all giddy when the Chinese call in that massive debt Bush used to finance his great Iraqi adventure.
Dorothy, don't waste your typing on the likes of Jenna, she has no idea what you are talking about when you mention China and America's debt. Well, at least she doesn't yet. Something tells me she will one day.
Hardly an inspiring and uplifting message, especially when the faithful need it. How about something like this (pretend it isn't me writing it):
I never expected to have to write this, because I believed with every fiber of my being that we were going to win this election. I didn't always, especially early on in the primaries, but in these closing days I could feel the change coming.
But it wasn't meant to be. Perhaps this wasn't our time. Perhaps Fate decided the President should be held to account for his mistakes and has thus refused him a safe and comfortable exit. Maybe it's better in the long run that this administration is forced to write it's own final chapter.
My friends, I think we already know how it ends, don't we?
We fought hard. No, that's not right. You fought hard. I've never seen such enthusiasm, such positivity, in any political movement. In many ways the great shame of this loss is that many of you might think it was all for not. Mark my words - your voice was heard.
Kerry may have lost, but you can be damn sure that Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz didn't win, either.
This administration knows it can't get away with it anymore. They know we're out here watching everything they do. Let them have Congress and the Presidency, and let history record what they do with them.
Now is not the time to stop fighting, because the fight is all we have. Do not give up. Ever. There is no dishonor in fighting and losing. But there is no honor at all in quitting.
There is much for us to do, and we need to look inside our party and ask why we failed to persuade more Americans or the rightness of our cause (and you should not doubt the rightness of the cause).
But there is one thing we must do, now, today, immediately. My friends, no matter what issue are important to us individually, our troops - our friends and neighbors, are dying in Iraq for a lie. They are wondering if we care about them or their families.
We have to bring them home. This is our job now. Call, organize, mobilize, whatever it takes.
Let's bring our countrymen home.
THEY CALL ME PASTABAGEL
"Much easier to ABOLISH THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE!!
I think."
No really it would take what 00,000 people and Wyoming is blue - that's 5 companies
What would Jon Stewart say right now?
"I am not going to be your monkey."
Nixon Bush!
Kerry conceded way too soon. It's not even over yet, but it's being written off. Unless they do something to become a little bit more over-bearing, their party is doomed.
So which party should I join or start?
"What if New Englanders are as bigoted as southerners?" Actually, that's what my sister and I found when we lived there in the 80's. People were surprisingly open about racism and anti-Semitism. Boston fought busing, remember? What we learned was that bigotry is fairly widespread; which flavors are on the menu varies locally. When we left California to go to college, we realized we were Asian.
Remember, Anonymous, Nixon won 2 terms also. We know how THAT turned out.
YDD
Remember more importantly that YDD is going back to nixon because he doesn't want to mention Reagan and his overwhelming popularity, as well as the hatred he got from the left, just like Bush II.
Really, Dave. This is no empty threat. I'm absolutely serious.
You want to discuss Vietnam? You want to talk about atrocities? You want to discuss Kerry's action in-country and afterward with the VVAW, I'm inviting you to visit me. No threat. I'll even pay for the beer. Your politics are self-evident, and so is your ignorance of history.
No empty threat, just an invitation.
And you, too, Anonymous, a man too afraid to pick a name for a comments section. That, my friend, is hitting the bottom.
But, instead of talking history, maybe we should be talking about how you assholes are going to cough up the dough when the Red Chinese foreclose on Bush's mortgage.
Kerry lost the popular vote. Scrapping over Ohio was pointless.
Kerry surrendered.
Yeah, maybe he did...then again, maybe he just lost. You know?
Worth repeating: Shame on you, trolls. You are no Christians.
Bush II ain't no Reagan. He's really not much compared with Nixon, either.
Bush won this election with under the radar politics. Fundamentalist churches were systematically organized by the Bush camp to get out the vote; Catholic congregations were regularly hit with the anti-abortion & anti-gay message to galvanize their vote; Jewish congregations were inundated with the pro-Israel message.
I'm Jewish. It came to my attention about a month ago that Ari Fleischer has spent the past 2-3 years speaking at synogogues around the country about how good Bush is for Israel in their time of need. Ditto for Koch (former mayor of NYC) for the past year. I'm sure they had the appropriate catholics doing the same around the country on abortion & gays. Plus, they ran the anti-gay marriage referendum right at the election. See how this works.
-- "...troubling but anecdotal..." --
Too bad you lefties already surrendered all of your weapons in the name of gun control. We would love for you to "bring it on".
I think you have to remember that this administrattion may be evil, but they are no geniuses.
In 1992, The Labour Party in the UK lost a General election and the Conservatives hung on, and took all the blame for their catastrophic mistakes.
The failure in Iraq, and it will be failure, the economic problems waiting will destroy the Republicans in the end.
I know it is hard to see some inevitable hard times ahead, but nobody will be in any doubt who is to blame.
But, instead of talking history, maybe we should be talking about how you assholes are going to cough up the dough when the Red Chinese foreclose on Bush's mortgage.
cosmic grappler
yeah great idea, they are going to screw their best customer. You really should crack a basic macroecon book. China won't call in anything if they want to keep trading with us. Any other assanine doomsday theories.
Now I know how mad the thugs were in 96' when Clinton was re-elected.
well, I say we give it to shrub so hard it'll make what the thugs did to Clinton look like they were giving him a Monica.
anyone up for a game of guess which indictment breaks first?
I say plame.
we should try to get convictions on every member of the administration.
every one of them does time for something.
who would you pick as weak link to try to turn states evidence?
But, instead of talking history, maybe we should be talking about how you assholes are going to cough up the dough when the Red Chinese foreclose on Bush's mortgage.
cosmic grappler
yeah great idea, they are going to screw their best customer. You really should crack a basic macroecon book. China won't call in anything if they want to keep trading with us. Any other assanine doomsday theories.
There I picked a name
But, instead of talking history, maybe we should be talking about how you assholes are going to cough up the dough when the Red Chinese foreclose on Bush's mortgage.
cosmic grappler
yeah great idea, they are going to screw their best customer. You really should crack a basic macroecon book. China won't call in anything if they want to keep trading with us. Any other assanine doomsday theories.
There I picked a name
"Unfortunately, the Republicans have chosen Darwinism for their ideology.
Evolution has nothing to do with thuggery."
I think they mean "Social Darwinism," AKA "the poor brought it on themselves."
Well said Atrios. We need to make sure that any election fraud/voter intimidation, etc., from this election gets documented, reported, and ultimately punished--that will be important for the next election.
But otherwise, no use sitting here trying to win the last one.
Please, oh, please. Rove frog-marched by early spring!!!
Boy that's some real insightful reflection Atrios. I mean like it all makes sense now. Clearly, we need to act like nothing happened and realize that the last two elections were aberrations, AND KEEP DOING EVERYTHING EXACTLY THE SAME (since it's worked so well).
Glad you're all over it for us. For a minute I was concerned that the big-traffic lefty bloggers were in danger of becoming irrelevant...
Political Physics
Too bad you lefties already surrendered all of your weapons in the name of gun control. We would love for you to "bring it on".
Bitch, you don't want no part of this.
Worth repeating: Shame on you, trolls. You are no Christians.
Echidne
And it is for you to judge this? I'm sure using every filthy name in the book to describe the Preznit is very Christian also. All I know is that I prayed that God would watch over this country and give us a leader to take this country in a better direction, and he answered my prayers.
anonymous,
Kerry^H^H^H^H^H Bush lost the popular vote. Scrapping over Ohio ^H^H^H^H Florida was pointless.
Uh, right.
Look guys - they almost imploded with their cockamamey (sp?)schemes knowing they had to run for re-selection. It's gonna be bumpy ride but we will get through it. Think of this, W had his "A" the first term. Many of them are leaving. God, can you just imagine how he's going to fuck up with a "B" team. And we get to stand there, nod sagely, and say, "This is why I voted for Kerry."
Within two years, it will be a cake walk. In the mean time - we keep up the good fight.
(This after I cried during the concession speech. Is it too early for a drink?)
Hey Cosmic, I am sure we would not agree but to let you know I lived thru the VN years was 1A waiting to be drafted, attended Jane Fonda rallies, marched in the street to protest the invasion of Cambodia but I never lost respect for our country or our service men and women. We were in Nam for the wrong reasons. Today the division is whether the same is true of Iraq.
I support doing what ever it takes to kill and eliminate any and all terriorist from this planet and I do not think that Kerry has the balls or desire to do the same. Glad he lost and I for one want to see him in jail.
Book em Dano!
P.S. You may not believe this but I actually respect you for your last post. I came here just to see how my old liberal cronies were feeling today and starting poking at the wound. Couldnt help myself but then I used to be one of you. I apologize but admit I will do it again LOL.
Too bad you lefties already surrendered all of your weapons in the name of gun control. We would love for you to "bring it on".
Whoa, internet tough guy. Way to speak to your fellow countrymen. Drop the hate and pick up the Good Book. Find Christ.
Feel safer?
Too bad you lefties already surrendered all of your weapons in the name of gun control.
Ya see this ignorance, everybody? This brainwashed piece of tripe?
This is what we dealing with.
Get a fucking clue, you stupid moron. You're embarrassing yourself.
Goto http://www.voteprotect.org they are tracking problems with e-voting, there were 17,282 INCIDENTS!!!! Both OHIO and FLORIDA show major numbers of errors reported.
Blackbox Voting has made one of the largest FOIA requests in history, in order to get at the log sheets, error reports and internal documents. We need to press this issue. IT IS HIGHLY SUSPICIOUS that with a high turnout, the GOP won.
Then check out the ownership and management of our e-voting companies...very informative, and color coded as to
http://www.ecotalk.org/
VotingMac...neCompanies.htm
cosmic
i remember you writing that you might move out of the country if bush won. do you need help packing?
To all the trolls who are rejoicing in the vistory, let's look at what you won:
A war in Iraq that no one knows how to get out of, a war that will kill more young people and suck up more money, far beyond what the government has told you. That's what's in your bag of treats this morning.
A deficit and debt that siphons off more money to the Japanese and Chinese, so much money that we couldn't finance or support another military threat anywhere else in the world without massive tax increases and a draft. Yeah, you won that.
So, take a look and rejoice, because what you won isn't that shiny new SUV. You won this big old bag of shit.
Congratulations.
So the Right used gays just as Hilter used the jews. But now the states have got their amendments, who are they gonna go after next time? and the time after that?
Lets see...2002 is was iraq and saddam the boogey-man.... 2004 the gays... 2006?
They haven't counted the votes yet and they haven't investigated the Diebold machines yet and we're supposed to soldier on because the warmongering Yale piece of shit--the taller one--who made a sport of pissing in progressive faces decided not to be a candidate after all? What is this fear of taking longer than a night to determine a complicated race? The US deserves whatever it gets; we will be looking back at IX/XI wistfully as a merciful, half-foiled strike compared to what Bush will bring us now that Kerry has surrendered.
2004 = 1928
I'm going to get blasted for this but here goes...
...the party in the minority governing position would be best served to pursue a social agenda in the mid-term election.
The gay marriage push doomed Kerry. Look at all the returns in those states that had gay marriage ban proposals. All of them passed with a greater majority than what Bush received. A substantial number of Democrats voted for these bans and some of those votes were siphoned off by Bush in the national election.
Had this agenda not been at the forefront, I'm convinced Kerry would have won. It would have been in the best interest of the party to hold off on this until '06.
It will still be hard to push a progressive social agenda in 2006. Ideally, you do it when you have a legislative majority, but you certainly don't try to push it through with a minority.
Let's nixon Bush. Impeach or resign - let's make the chimp's life unbearable.
Took a walk down to Pioneer Courthouse Square here in Portland and finally broke down when I saw the proud, older women, Women's International League for Peace and Freedom, handing out flyers for a peace rally here today at 3PM. Couldn't quit sobbing. The very nice woman who comforted me got active three decades ago to save her boys from the draft and it's so sad that she still has to be out there today! But she gave me sustenance and hope and info on how to protect my own sons with CO status, etc.
The task at hand is to unify against the onslaught that will surely come now. To strategize a defense. And yes, to work to win future elections.
The key to both tasks is to tend to the infrastructure of democracy: Media, education, and voting processes. These have always been key to progress, and this wasn't going to be a task completed with one election.
But, while I'm here, fuck the two-faced, thin-skinned boy king and his vote-suppressing neofascist theocratic regime. And all of you bigots who turned out to vote in favor of those 11 antigay amendments: You wanted to be my enemy, and so you are.
Oh, and watch out for the new Supremacists coming down the pike in the next four years. Some changes, some votes, last for generations.
I weep for America. I hope for America.
I wanted to believe that people could see through the President's false Christian act. That they would see the underlying vengeance and hate that is in no way Christian.
I wanted to believe that people would see through the lies that the War in Iraq was NOT a part of the war on terror no matter how many times Dick Cheney claimed it was.
I wanted to believe that people would understand that the big corporations and rich people didn't care about their welfare, their health or their future and that for all the talk about the economy getting better it was only getting better for the rich.
I wanted to believe that the media would finally stop simply repeating the Republican lies and deceptions and feel that "I did my job" when they simply ran the Democrats talking points, instead of searching for the truth and then challenging the lies.
But mostly I wanted to believe that people would stop living out of their fears. I know it is easy to do and it feels right and comfortable since the political parties have learned the mantra of fear and anxiety from marketing and advertising. A frightened populace doesn't think. A frightened population wants to be protected. A frightened populous will concede hard fought for liberties for an illusion of security.
I love science fiction and I love time travel stories. I think the reason is I love to think, “What if?”. I also like to think how can we change the future? How can we persuade people? In the movie Sliding Doors you got to see the two possible futures and clearly one was better than the other. If we could see the consequences of both futures the decision would be obvious. We can't do that with today's technology, but we can with our minds.
We need to visualize a better future for all, even for the ignorant; for they also are "the least of our brothers". They aren't very knowledgeable and they live in fear and hate. The project their own fear onto whomever is the target supplied by the fear mongers. I can get angry at them, but I also have to pity them.
If I didn't have to live in the America that their narrow-mindedness has wroth, I could laugh at them when it all comes crashing down. And when it comes crashing down, I don't want to say "I told you so." but I want them to know from whom and from whence it came. I want them to see who did this to them. I want them to see how they were fooled and lied to by the people who said they were protecting them. They need to know who is responsible for these economic problems. I don't want them to be deceived anymore. They got everything they wanted. They have their illusion of control, but it came at a bitter price, through a denial of reality and a hiding of the truth.
When the veil is pulled off, they need to know that it is not the “liberal elites” who are behind this. It is not the democrats that wanted these policies and programs. This all came from their failed president and his
Kerry lost the popular vote. Scrapping over Ohio was pointless.
Welcome to Gilead.
I find it very interesting that we in the reality based community have such a large blind spot for the fundamentalist faith based mentality.
We can't seem accept that some just won't believe the objective truth right in front of their eyes.
Karl Rove seems to get it. He uses them well.
There must be an honest and ethical way to get through to this group (and honesty and ethics are what sets us a fair bit above Mr. Rove and his clients). How?
As for now, welcome to Gilead. Park the truth at the door.
Exactly so! I am disappointed but not discouraged. Heartened by the response of others who are ready to continue the work of taking back our country. "Change does not roll in on the wheels of inevitability, but comes through continuous struggle. And so we must straighten our backs and work for our freedom. A man can't ride you unless your back is bent."
--Martin Luther King, Jr
Yes, we must gird our loins for the long fight and put this horrible blow behind us. But if we simply let the extremely dubious circumstances of the Florida electronic voting slide without even investigating, we would deserve the accusation of being wussies that the right so dearly loves to bandy about.
Who cares if they try to label us as sore losers? They are going to label us with anything that crosses their mean little minds anyway. Big deal.
Trolls, what can you say? A couple of days ago, I was waiting for the WALK sign to turn on and there was this junker car idling in the lane. And it sat through the light and all its phases until the WALK sign lit up. As I start to cross, he turns and comes right at me and I had to jump out of his way. Pudgy, white, male, greasy sideburns, thick glasses, surly look on moonface, a complete loser with a bad attitude who just had to annoy another person because his dick is small and he will be lucky if he can get a job at Burger King sweeping up used food wrappers. Most trolls are the same way, sad, pathetic losers who lack the strength of character or the inner core of decency to ever try to be a better man.
Onward to impeachment!
the truth always reveals itself.
part II I weep for America.
their failed president and his administration and all the things they stand for. And then we can say to our chastened awakened brothers and sisters, "Now, let us fix the problems and get American back on the track our forefathers and mothers set us on. One of truth, liberty and justice for all.
From Spocko's Brain.
I weep for America. I hope for America.
Worth repeating: Shame on you, trolls. You are no Christians.
Echidne
And it is for you to judge this? I'm sure using every filthy name in the book to describe the Preznit is very Christian also. All I know is that I prayed that God would watch over this country and give us a leader to take this country in a better direction, and he answered my prayers.
I have not used filthy names. I am not Christian. If this election is for Christian values, then you trolls should demonstrate those values. Jesus never told you to go and harass people who are hit.
Hello all:
Have been lurking here forever. Just wanted to thank all of you for your comments. You have helped me keep my sanity for the last 6 months, and will continue to do so, since I see the fire is still burning. No retreat, no surrender. Thanks again. You have helped lift my spirits.
No Cruz,
I thought about it, seriously, because for once in my life I'd like to live in a country that doesn't spend half of my tax money on weapons.
But I decided to stay and fight, instead. Take the long view, I told myself, take the long view.
Sorry to disappoint you. But now that your guy has won, I expect we'll be reading news of your enlistment any day now. Huh?
kei & yuri -
perhaps Kerry has something up hi sleeve. let's see what the story is.
the lawyers are working on something.
"What matters isn't what was done wrong, but what needs to be done right for the '06 elections."
Potayto, potahto.
Kerry made the same mistake Gore did -- he didn't manage to convince the majority of Americans that he was anything but not-Bush. In Gore's case, this was good enough to eke out a tiny victory, and in Kerry's, enough to barely lose, but it wasn't enough in either case to actually take the White House.
This is the problem with the Democratic Party, and this is what the Democratic Party needs to FIX.
How the hell did a CHALLENGER manage to run a campaign entirely on the defensive?!
We need Dems who actually stand for something, not just being not-the other guy.
Me? I don't have a whole hell of a lot of hope that's going to happen.
To hell with the Democrats. I'm registering Whig. I mean it this time.
So now what is the future for the Dem party? Does it lie with Midwestern liberals like Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton?
Yes.
Bill Clinton won because he ran a strong campaign, and recognized the middle of America. Contrary to west-coast (and upper west side) conventional wisdom, middle-america is not filled with dummies, sheep to be led by the nose if only they'd listen to their betters.
Why the underwhelming support for Kerry by Midwestern Liberals? Something Dems need to ask these next 2 and 4 years. Simply put: a Dem candidate cannot afford to ignore or alienate rural and central-America Democrats the way Kerry and Dean have done. Look at the map, kids: Red, Red, Red.
I disagree that Dean should be DNCC; he doesn't get it either, while he's loved in the cities and on college campuses how's he play in Peoria? Ask the folks in Peoria, the Dems who voted for Bush!
It is time for rational liberalism to re-take the party. Accusing the other side of fascism is childish, and it takes away from the real problems generated by the other side: incredible mismanagement; further bloating of an already impossible bureaucracy; spending money like a sailor on leave; and so on.
If we liberals want to convince America to vote for our candidate, we can't do it with insults to their persons or their intelligence. I could not bring myself to vote for Kerry because he did not convince me to do so. My interests are not the interests of students from Berkeley, or wealthy liberals from Beverly Hills. And yet who spoke to me? The guy running for Senate in Illinois, 2000 miles away. Does me a lot of good....
The Dem party needs to reform, and needs to do to soon or risk dissolution into two squabbling sections: left and left-center. Bill Clinton knew how to put his arms around both.. was he the exception or the rule? Only we can make it the rule, gang...
Had this agenda not been at the forefront, I'm convinced Kerry would have won. It would have been in the best interest of the party to hold off on this until '06.
You're wrong. If we hadn't made it an issue, BushCo would've. The same flyers would've gone out, the same phone calls would've been made, and Kerry and Edwards would've been forced to respond. Nothing would be any different.
People told you yesterday that this is a debate where we have to stand on principle. They were right.
Boycotting a broad range of pro-GOP businesses won't work. This stuff needs to be targeted. The entire reality community needs to pick one target, just one, and bring the necessary heat to bear until it cracks. No need to prioritize, just pick one (preferably a weak target) and stick to it.
Then you move on to the next boycott, which will be easier to accomplish having set the example with your prior kill.
Anyone familiar with US behavior towards third world dissenting countries during the Cold War will recognize the efficacy of this method in discouraging others.
I, for one, am in this for the long haul. I, for one, am making decisions knowing that they will affect the 7th generation out from mine. I, for one, know that although it takes zigs and zags, humanity does move foreward. I, for one, completely understand that justice does always win in the end. I, for one, worked as hard as I could this time, and will work harder and smarter next time. I, for one, donated as much money as I could, and will donate more money next time.
I've lost battles before and I've come back from them stronger and wiser than before. I've been bloody but now bowed before and lived to tell the tale. I've lost friends, lovers, causes, cases, money, and, sometimes, my way. But I'm still here and I'm not leaving.
Mars, my sweet, sweet bitches! Mars!
We need to face facts. A large percentage of this counrty lives in another reality. They don't want to see, no matter how often we point out the lies and manipulations of the Bush crooks. It would take Jesus himself to appear and slap some sense into them for us to reach them. We need to let go of the old models and create new ones. Look at the red and blue map. The Northeast states need to create their own econmic union, as do the Great Lakes states and the Pacific states. let's get ahead of the curve for once. Let's stop carrying these Southern leeches and stop pandering to the idiot fringe. They want to be "Left Behind". Fine, let's leave them behind and bring about change with innovation and a cooperative spirit in what's left of the real United States.
Boycotting a broad range of pro-GOP businesses won't work. This stuff needs to be targeted. The entire reality community needs to pick one target, just one, and bring the necessary heat to bear until it cracks. No need to prioritize, just pick one (preferably a weak target) and stick to it.
Excellent point. I nomiate CNN, but I'm willing to go to work on whomever Atrios suggests.
Sucks to be you guys
If your all so liberaly open minded, ever thing that perhaps some of you are wrong in your views?
So what should we do differently so this never ever happens again? Clearly we can't win with what we did this year - and we all worked really really hard.
As to the issue of religious entities inserting themelves into electoral politics - perhaps there should be an organized Sabbath Day of no donations from Democrats. When the basket or Bishop's appeal comes around, instead of putting cash or a check in the hopper, put in a letter saying that you're donating the money to your local Dem. organization in the interests of preserving the separation of church and state. Now, I know the trolls will insist that since we're all godless pagans, that won't make much of a dent in the bottom line, but I'd be willing to bet that it would put the fear of God (did I say that?) into a few folks.
What matters isn't what was done wrong
bush is also guilty of this same kind of resistence at looking backwards to examine at what's gone wrong. look at where it's gotten us.
Here's what would make me better: Legal recognition of differences between red and blue states.
Folks in red states don't think Bush will start a draft? Fine, then they won't object to an agreement that says if he does start a draft, it's red states only--blue state boys (and girls) are exempt.
And blue staters and their descendents get a tax break. Bush thinks all tax breaks are God's Own Fiscal Policy so he shouldn't object. Meanwhile, the debts Bush made for the country will be paid by the people who voted their approval of them--and by their grandchildren, and their grandchildren's grandchildren.
They can also pay every dime that goes to "faith-based initiatives."
For decades NY's offered clean, inexpensive and discrete ABs for frantic red-state women who could afford the trip. But after yesterday? If they show up here and can't prove themselves to be registered Democrats, let's throw them in the Hudson.
Meanwhile, how about a PR campaign in the Mideast, one that says: We don't want you to bomb anything in the States of course, but if you do, why don't you skip the places where they voted against Bush--like L.A., Chicago, D.C. and here--and consider, say, the Astrodome. Or maybe the LDS Temple in Salt Lake City. They were happy enough to take outsized per-capita anti-terrorism funds--let them assume some of the risk.
It's an old-fashioned, conservative virtue that you're expected to clean up your own messes and pay for your own mistakes. Let Bush's worshippers take the rap for their own decisions. The rest of us shouldn't have to carry them anymore.
I have not used filthy names. I am not Christian. If this election is for Christian values, then you trolls should demonstrate those values. Jesus never told you to go and harass people who are hit.
Echidne
Yes good on you, but that's not the norm here. The usuals are far more strident than the "trolls"
So I'm glad you are nice to everyone, but bitching at the trolls when you have a number of friends doing much worse, without reprisal. See that's what we call a hypocrit.
KE04, the 527's, and the blogs need to immeadiately move into America's churches. This is the battleground.
Thanks for proviing and contributing to the forum. I appreciated it very much. Some was actually very sharp
I live in germany but am originally from ireland.
I cant believe that the american people didn't reject this government, especially in the light of the prison torture scandal. If anyone needs a clearer picture of what this regime is about, then thats the place to start looking.
I've seen some amazing documentaries in the last few months, a la "Hijacking catastrophe" and "outfoxed".
This is the key to the future. if you feel the need to say something, get invoved with something with a voice, the media or any of the myriad of activist groups. Ask questions of your authorities. Speak your mind, its amazing how many people will see the reason in your views. I really feel that the majority of the us would share those views, given accurate and well presented information.
And be more direct. I mean remember, the pictures and videos from the prison torture episode were too brutal for US Citizens to see.
State/Kerry %/Bush% First exit poll
AZ 45-55, CO 48-51, LA 42-57
PA 60-40 key state
OH 52-48 key state
FL 51-48 key state
MI 51-47
NM 50-48
MN 58-40
WI 52-43
IA 49-49
NH 57-41
I saved these yesterday, but can't find them now. Now, note that the exit polls in key states showed a Kerry blowout, like we were seeing. Say it with me 'A DIEBOLD victory'! HOW are you going to win, when you loose in a BLOWOUT election? This is a key question!
one more thing. people really do make the correlation between how one campaigns - and how one governs.
now people will say:
see, kerry gave up too easily. would he have given up as easily against al qaeda?
kerry only served to confirm the prejudices people held against him.
State/Kerry %/Bush% First exit poll
AZ 45-55, CO 48-51, LA 42-57
PA 60-40 key state
OH 52-48 key state
FL 51-48 key state
MI 51-47
NM 50-48
MN 58-40
WI 52-43
IA 49-49
NH 57-41
I saved these yesterday, but can't find them now. Now, note that the exit polls in key states showed a Kerry blowout, like we were seeing. Say it with me 'A DIEBOLD victory'! HOW are you going to win, when you lose in a BLOWOUT election? This is a key question!
Hey I live in Salt Lake City and I am a yellow dog democrat. There are a lot of Democrats in the city. Don't send Osama to kill us.
I still think it's worthwhile to think about infiltrating some small red states - lot's of people from CA have moved to Las Vegas because of the housing costs in CA - which put Nevada much closer than it's ever been before
hermes - we need to approach the Vatican. they let all catholics down.
Atrios - you dumbass, there are not more of them - it was diebold
dumbass
dumbass
dumbass
So the Right used gays just as Hilter used the jews. But now the states have got their amendments, who are they gonna go after next time? and the time after that?
Lets see...2002 is was iraq and saddam the boogey-man.... 2004 the gays... 2006?
Dave
Yep cause gays were rounded up and put into camps where they are routinely gassed. It's insulting when you compare Bush to Hitler because you lessen the horrors of the Holocaust to a cheap political attack. Grow up ass!!!
lima-
perhaps Kerry has something up hi[s] sleeve.
DID HE NOT CONCEDE? ARE WE INCORRECT IN UNDERSTANDING THAT HE ALREADY CONCEDED AT AROUND ONE?
I don't blame Kerry for conceding. I blame the masses for being so goddamn dumb, deaf and blind. Yay for four more years of being controlled by fear! Yay for four more years of rising gas prices and tax cuts for only the wealthiest people, while the middle class gets fucked up the ass! Yay for more dead soldiers in a spontaneous, stupid war! Yay for four more years of basic civil rights being shit on! Yay for the hard "Christian" right, who now runs your life no matter what you believe!
Fucking masochists.
Once upon a time, I gave the public entirely too much credit. I couldn't believe that the majority of them were pea-brained mouth-breathing fuckwits.
Then I started working retail.
Today only reaffirms that knowledge.
So, what to do about it?
"If your all so liberaly open minded, ever thing that perhaps some of you are wrong in your views?"
John,
I often consider whether I'm right or wrong, and try to read a wide range of opinions on both sides of an issue. For instance, would you like to discuss the positive and bold aspects of the Plan for a New American Century? Or would you like to know why I think it's a disastrous mistake? I can take either side.
But you don't know what PNAC is, do you?
Must suck to be so stupid.
And to be so grammatically challenged.
Thanks for the link to Margaret Cho. Very uplifting. I decided to do something positive today by becoming a member of ACLU.
Thanks for the link to Margaret Cho. Very uplifting. I decided to do something positive today by becoming a member of ACLU.
I saved these yesterday, but can't find them now. Now, note that the exit polls in key states showed a Kerry blowout, like we were seeing. Say it with me 'A DIEBOLD victory'! HOW are you going to win, when you lose in a BLOWOUT election? This is a key question!
hank
What part of faulty exit polls don't you understand.
Too bad you lefties already surrendered all of your weapons in the name of gun control. We would love for you to "bring it on".
HA HA!
www.liberalfirearmsassociation.com
There are plenty of 2nd amendment supporting leftys.
I'll bet that our numbers will increase in the next 4 years.
Just you trolls wait for us liberals to push the new great compromise.
No new gun control laws for no restrictions on a womans right to choose.
Folks, come on I know this will work.
If we can eliminate or coopt these wedge issues we will stand a better chance of winning.
We dems need to be the party of the constitution.
Can anyone explain how the exit polls predicted a Kerry victory in Ohio, with both men and women - and then were wrong by a lot ? I posted a screen saver of CNN changing the results of their exit polls to match the real results.
I'm sure Bush won the popular vote, but the exit polls in both Florida and Ohio smell.
How do you make money in a casino? Own the casino. The Republicans own the voting machines. That is what Republicans did in Florida and Ohio. It doesn't matter who you vote for there is no way to verify the votes.
The other thing that seems to play well for the votes he legitimately got is to promise to kill thousands of Arab women and children. Bush's speech of "healing" is bullshit. He is going to continue his crusade against working people and retiring people. He will continue to kill our kids and Iraq's so that Halliburton and Chevron can own Iraqi oil.
Suck up, buck up, and don't feed the trolls. Im getting up off the ground ready to fight.
Yep cause gays were rounded up and put into camps where they are routinely gassed
As a matter of fact, they were. Along with other undesirables such as gypsies.
Instead of rejecting religious ideology of middle-America, it might be time for a faction of the party to embrace it...and for the rest of the party to allow that to happen.
The Democratic Party has alienated its religous followers. The church-going black constituents are leaving. The white ones left long ago. And the Jewish vote is moving away, as well.
With those who are left in the party, I know this is an idea many of you cannot accept, but if there is not some sort of reaching out to at least the religious center of this country, the Democratic Party is rendered completely ineffective from this point forward.
kei & yuri -
you are wrong, it is never final. tlet the reps think it is over. tactical.
Anonymous, you idiot: the Holocaust itself was just a product of years of politically organized hatred, just the steam. You start with the rhetoric, then change the laws, then you open a completely uneven imperial war against them--get it out of order and the people won't understand what the big deal is, and it won't work. You can't limit the Holocaust to two ovens and lecture somebody about cheapening legacies. Bush is therefore eminently comparable to Hitler pre-Wansee Conference.
"cosmic grappler is an idiot"
what part of faulty voting machines don't you understand.
Hecate - Atrios - Thank you - Thank you for fighting the good fight.
Here is a little uplift - here in Minnesota we took back sixteen seats in the House - making it a ton harder for the Pawlenty agenda. Minnesota is known for it's socially liberal Republicans - you know, the old style - but this was a major take back and my little suburb went for Kerry (went Bush last time). We are going to be able to take back the rest of our country as well.
Here's a little Jesus talk for you Bible impaired trolls:
Galatians 6: 7-10 says, "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart." (NKJV)
Thank you, Surfdork,
Why just this Sunday, my friends and I are going to throw lead down-range in a veritable hallelujah celebration of our second amendment rights.
And yes, my wife would agree that cosmic grappler is an idiot.
Is that your best? Jesus, son, don't quit your day job.
I would advocate an moral/religious approach based on Deism, an enlightenment metaphysics that stresses the rational and scientific as the manifestation of God. What this approach does is 1. prioritize science and logic over "faith-based" religions, 2. claim the conservative mantle of the founders, and 3. instantly offer support for Democratic rights-based positions by naturalizing gay sex rights (biologically created), and stem-cell research.
So now what is the future for the Dem party? Does it lie with Midwestern liberals like Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton?
Yes.
Bill Clinton won because he ran a strong campaign, and recognized the middle of America. Contrary to west-coast (and upper west side) conventional wisdom, middle-america is not filled with dummies, sheep to be led by the nose if only they'd listen to their betters.
Why the underwhelming support for Kerry by Midwestern Liberals? Something Dems need to ask these next 2 and 4 years. Simply put: a Dem candidate cannot afford to ignore or alienate rural and central-America Democrats the way Kerry and Dean have done. Look at the map, kids: Red, Red, Red.
I disagree that Dean should be DNCC; he doesn't get it either, while he's loved in the cities and on college campuses how's he play in Peoria? Ask the folks in Peoria, the Dems who voted for Bush!
It is time for rational liberalism to re-take the party. Accusing the other side of fascism is childish, and it takes away from the real problems generated by the other side: incredible mismanagement; further bloating of an already impossible bureaucracy; spending money like a sailor on leave; and so on.
If we liberals want to convince America to vote for our candidate, we can't do it with insults to their persons or their intelligence. I could not bring myself to vote for Kerry because he did not convince me to do so. My interests are not the interests of students from Berkeley, or wealthy liberals from Beverly Hills. And yet who spoke to me? The guy running for Senate in Illinois, 2000 miles away. Does me a lot of good....
The Dem party needs to reform, and needs to do to soon or risk dissolution into two squabbling sections: left and left-center. Bill Clinton knew how to put his arms around both.. was he the exception or the rule? Only we can make it the rule, gang...
Jim, I beg you to see SMiLE. You need it. You'll find it one of the greatest concerts you've ever seen & I'm sure it will give you the strength to carry on.
(A memorable bit of the show I saw in Cleveland was the musicians leaving the stage after the full-band encore, Scott Bennett the last off in mid-stride saying, "Kerry!" into an open mic.)
In Columbus, Michael Moore reminded us that the first American suffragettes never lived to vote. I believe we'll live to taste the fruits of our labors. Last night/early this morning, someone at Kos or Eschaton reminded us of Thomas Paine's words,
"THESE are the times that try men’s souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph."
2+2=5
Are you such a dreamer
To put the world to rights?
I stay home forever
Where two and two always makes up five
I lay down the tracks
Sandbag and hide
January has april's showers
And two and two always makes up five
Its the devil's way now
There is no way out
You can scream it, you can shout
It is too late now
Because
You have not been paying attention
paying attention
paying attention
paying attention
You have not been paying attention
paying attention
paying attention
paying attention
You have not been paying attention
paying attention
paying attention
paying attention
I try to sing along
But the music's all wrong
'Cause I’m not
'Cause I’m not
I swat 'em like flies but like flies the buggers keep coming back and NOT
But I’m not
All hail to the thief
All hail to the thief
But I'm not
But I'm not
But I'm not
But I'm not
Don't question my authority or put me in the dock
'Cause I'm not
'Cause I'm not
Oh go and tell the king that the sky is falling in
When it's not
But it's not
But it's not
Maybe not
Maybe not
I'm going to downtown Chapel Hill to celebrate our disgust for the rightwin idiots, as lots of cities are at 5:00.
Can someone ask the trolls what time to set my watch? 1950's when blacks couldn't vote or women weren't accepted into college?
1930's, depression & no social services?
1900's, when children were allowed to work in the coal mines & factories?
Pre-civil war, when we had slavery?
1200's, when religion trumped science?
If you trolls & your families are comfortable, thank a liberal.
Each state government needs to be lobbied to have fool proof voting machines where votes can be verified by the voter and for recounts with paper evidence.
Blogpac with the help of bloggers from various states can advertise and lobby. Surely the people want honest voting machines. (And I don't think we had it this time at all).
Right now I'm feeling suicidal. But --
Of course, I felt that way in '94.
The Gingrich folks destroyed themselves
two years later beause of their utter
greed.
The Bushies will do the same because
of their arrogance.
Plus, as lots of folks have said
earlier,
Iraq is now Bush's mess. Perhaps
its a blessing in disquise
that Kerry doesn't have the impossible
job of
cleaning it up.
God, I do love Tom Paine.
Thanks for repeating that, Haydn.
I've been fighting these same people since 1968 and I'm not about to quit now.
kei & yuri
Don't feed the trolls. If you argue with idiots, they only pull you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Thanks, wÒÓ†.
As for the rest of you whiners, let's stop the fucking, "our candidate sucked" and "we didn't do enough" and "our message was bad" crap. This hand wringing started last night with fucking Nick Kristoff,"the dems don't reach out to the red states- you don't talk about your faith enough, you make them feel bad." Bullshit.
There is nothing wrong with us.
There was nothing wrong with our candidate.
There is something terribly wrong with them. They don't listen to logic or facts- because they don't care.
If someone can think of a way to combat that, well, I'm all ears. Otherwise I'm with Incognito- they're worse than the blob. They can all go off themselves in some godforsaken backwater for bushie glory if they want.
"With those who are left in the party, I know this is an idea many of you cannot accept, but if there is not some sort of reaching out to at least the religious center of this country, the Democratic Party is rendered completely ineffective from this point forward."
I'm sorry but this is exactly the wrong approach. If we abolish the fight to maintain separation of church and state we might as well just register as republicans.
Do not even think of embracing the right's definition of morality - we need to figure out a way to fight on our terms. We should not become the right just because we lost.
Where to focus your rage? SANTORUM '06, BABY!
Joe Hoefel laid the groundwork
If your all so liberaly open minded, ever thing that perhaps some of you are wrong in your views?
John
Well, it's refreshing to have a Reicht Winger admit to the obvious fact of Conservative close-Mindedness. Thank you.
A day or so ago, we were reading our own version of the St. Crispian's Day speech -- one of my favorite passages from Shakespeare. But King Harry didn't give that speech on a clean slate; he gave it when the English troops have no reason in the world to think that they'd win the battle that they faced. They'd had a terrible, disasterous, march through France. The French army was better equipped, larger, and rested. King Harry gave that speech to some Englishmen who probably felt even more dispirited and frightened than we do today.
So, rest tonight. Rake some leaves. See a silly movie. And then, rise up. We're about to go into our battle against a foe who seems today to outnumber us. But we'll win in the end, just as Harry the Welchman did.
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.
hadenuf,
I had no idea you were a neighbor. I'm driving out to Mebane tonight and play some blues among the heathen.
Maybe it'll blow off some of this stink of fascism that's crept into the state.
New Strategy for Democrats frustrated with the South:
1. Stop whining.
2. Move there.
3. Be very active politically.
Kerry surrendered. Quickly. Without even a whimper.
And his party agrees?
Shame on you.
I supported the DLC candidate
kerry was the DLC candidate. or were you being ironic?
"With those who are left in the party, I know this is an idea many of you cannot accept, but if there is not some sort of reaching out to at least the religious center of this country, the Democratic Party is rendered completely ineffective from this point forward."
I'm sorry but this is exactly the wrong approach. If we abolish the fight to maintain separation of church and state we might as well just register as republicans.
Do not even think of embracing the right's definition of morality - we need to figure out a way to fight on our terms. We should not become the right just because we lost.
Tonecluster--the Clintons are not the answer--neither is Dean.
Clinton projected a simulation of morality by dressing it up as empathy. It worked pretty well but didn't give the Democrats the moral capital necessary to build a mandate. We need to collectively find and build on our moral center: rights, justics, opportunity, investment in the future.
FUCK MOVING ONWARD
four legs - we need to beat them down with their own shit now. they have disclosed a lot about what they are. let's get them and bring them to their knees.
I for one can't wait for the hilarity of Bush II to begin. If you thought the first term was bad, this "mandate" is going to have him doing some crazy shit. Plus all of the scandals that should be erupting at any time.
molly - i agree - old school federalism is sounding like an excellent candidate for revival right now. go states rights! however, i fear the people who've come up with the moniker "The Great Relearning" for their spandy-new cultural revolution aren't gonna let blue states be blue, because we don't know what's good for us, and they don't want those knocked up red-state women and homosexuals to have anywhere to run.
I'm not saying the Democratic Party has to push a theocratic agenda. It just has to stop being so damn insensitive to regligious beliefs. Look at where the base is eroding. It's not rocket science to see it's among the church-going citizens.
I'm just sharing my pride at my parents work in Florida for MoveOn. These retired folks walked the precincts in Pensacola, Fla., wrote editorials for the conservative local paper, and gave money to the campaign. This is a terrible result for the country, but I know my parents will continue to keep Bush's toes to the fire. My parents are amazing.
By the way, if the Democrats have to give up gay rights and abortion rights to win against the Republicans, then it's not worth it. Gay rights is a civil rights issue, like the civil rights struggles for African Americans, and history will prove us right about that. The Democrats have been penalized for doing the right thing with civil rights and liberties since the 1960s, but I hope in the future people in our country will be amazed and horrified about the Republicans' intolerance and bigotry, in the same way we are of those who supported slavery.
the MAJORITY of Americans love George Bush.
Bullshit. Every last one of the fascist crazies came out yesterday to vote for their beloved Leader. And that amounted to 51% of the 59% that bothered to vote. Not even 30% of America "loves" Bush.
Note that talking about "morality" doesn't mean we are against the separation of Church and State. Part of our morality is tolerance. This tolerance compels us morally to resist the infestation of our public legacy with specific religious beliefs. Theistic-religious states are decadent and do not adequately address the good of the citizenry. So it is a moral imperative to protect separation of church and state. Get it?
Thank You Cosmic Grappler!
I've endured personal attacks from some of the holier than thou liberals on this site for my views on the 2nd amendment.
The anti-gun folks are just as zealous as the operation rescue people, they both use appeals to emotion instead of facts.
Folks, I go to the gun range. I know most of the shooters voted Bush because of one issue.
Gun control.
Wann split the Rethug base?
Co-opt gun control in exchange for abortion rights.
I guarantee once both issues are taken away from the Rethugs we will win the battle for the soul of America.
However if the left continues to demonize gun owners and the NRA they will always lose.
I can tell you 90%+ of NRA members vote.
The NRA is a PEOPLES organization, it is not a front group created by corporations.
When you attack the NRA you are not attacking a monolith, you are attacking the 2 MILLION plus members.
Attack the LEADERSHIP of the NRA but don't attack the NRA.
Wayne LaPierre is a Bush tool who delivers votes for Bush via the NRA.
Instead he should be running the NRA for the benefit of it's members.
Liberals, join the civillian marksmanship program.
Infiltrate.
Most gun owners are pro personal freedom, they can be brought over to our side as long as we are willing to change.
Hecate -
I am watching Cahuncy Gardener tonight, followed by Bob Roberts!
I drank all the wine last night. Tonight, I am drinking a margarita in a fancy glass.
It's very easy to bitch about the south. I moved here from MA back in October and these are not a bunch of "ignorant toothless ass-raping hillbillies".
There are many who are poor, inadequately educated and the only people providing them with hope (via God) are also telling them to vote Republican. Meanwhile, the North looks down their noses and calls names. You reap what you sow.
Bring some money down here. Give them job opportunities (or buy stuff from their local farms). Get some money into their schools.
The south and midwest are largely occupied by disenfranchised and marginalized people. No one has bothered to tell them that the Republicans are more responsible for this than the Democrats.
Come down. Let 'em know.
$100k buys you a mansion in Paducah, KY. Come down.
The winters are nicer here. The people are nicer here. They vote Republican for some strange reason. Fix it from within.
Move south!
"With those who are left in the party, I know this is an idea many of you cannot accept, but if there is not some sort of reaching out to at least the religious center of this country, the Democratic Party is rendered completely ineffective from this point forward."
I'm sorry but this is exactly the wrong approach. If we abolish the fight to maintain separation of church and state we might as well just register as republicans.
Do not even think of embracing the right's definition of morality - we need to figure out a way to fight on our terms. We should not become the right just because we lost.
SeriousQuery, please check out my post on Deism and how such an approach will help the Democrats connect with religious/conservative voters.
Oh, those machines did not work right. Saw them myself. In fact, the election judge at my polling place came out to me (the volunteer poll monitor--and she was pissed off all morning that she had even been cursed with one) and asked me to report the problems with the machines to my organization because she felt powerless to remedy the situation.
And there were similar problems all over the place.
Atrios -- thanks for your impassioned commentary. We represent 48% of the electorate and effectively are now unrepresented in the federal government. It is up to us to represent ourselves -- through blogging, through media critique, through fundraising, and through organizing. Like Satan, the Bush administration lives on despair and ignorance as its lifeblood. If we don't stay true to our principles now, when it is hard, then what good are we?
I respectfully disagree, Atrios. What matters IS what was done wrong, i.e. taking two consecutive presidential elections by way of massive election fraud, and the Democratic Party rolling over and saying Oh! Do me again!
Cosmic Grappler- the Chinese will foreclose on Bush's mortgage by taking Tawain. Colin Powell already gave them permission.
"Do not even think of embracing the right's definition of morality - we need to figure out a way to fight on our terms. We should not become the right just because we lost."
I think this is just another example of accepting the Right's monopoly on morality. We all know that its a fiction, that there's an consistent alternative morality (not just several relativist moralities) that unites us as Democrats.. see Lakoff, et. al.
"With those who are left in the party, I know this is an idea many of you cannot accept, but if there is not some sort of reaching out to at least the religious center of this country, the Democratic Party is rendered completely ineffective from this point forward."
I'm sorry but this is exactly the wrong approach. If we abolish the fight to maintain separation of church and state we might as well just register as republicans.
Do not even think of embracing the right's definition of morality - we need to figure out a way to fight on our terms. We should not become the right just because we lost.
Kerry fought a good hard fight and deserves our respect. But even though he was my personal choice for President from the beginning, I always thought the Massachusetts label would hurt him. It's unfair but true - A Democratic candidate must come from the south or the heartland.
If Wes Clark has been the nominee, even if he was a bit inexperienced on the politicking, I think he would have brought in Arkansas and Ohio, and maybe Missouri and others.
we need to send a plague of locusts to the mid-west, then a draught, and finally, the bubonic plague. I think they are expecting it according to the scriptures. So let's make their dream come true. once all population in the red states in gone, then we can expand the blue.
Part of what we need to do is find and advance elements of a morality that the Right shares but is hidden by their Old Testament approach. Bush is NOT appealing to WWJD aspects of evangelical Christians to advance his platform, but rather an Old Testament model. We need to re-sync up our party with New Testament elements of Christianity to get back to our roots.
A horrible thought:
I haven't any of the real breakdown
statistics yet, but what if we lost
beause (a)defection in the Jewish
vote because they were sold the bill
of goods that Bush was better for
Israel; and (b)a similar phenom in
the African-American community because
of gay marriage?
How do we recover from that?
I spent a couple of weeks before the election wasting WAY more time than was good for me on a bi-partisan board sponsored by a news channel.
I learned a great deal about the thought processes of the right, though.
First, I learned that they believe to the very core of their beings that America is God's anointed country and that we do not need other countries in any way. Not even in trade or as allies in war. All other countries are inferior in EVERY way. In fact, America owns the copyright on freedom and prosperity. ALL foreigners are suspect, and to profess admiration or liking for any other country is a confession of treason. But immigrants from Central and South America are the worst. In the memorable words of one poster, they are "cockroaches that need to be exterminated." (I am not making that up.)
Second, I learned that to them, Catholics, Episcopalians, mainstream Methodists, Presbyterians, Greek Orthodox, Congregationalists, and all other members of non-evangelical churches ARE NOT CHRISTIAN. And that Jews and Muslims worship a false God, and that Buddhists and Hindus are heathens. Literally. And agnostics/atheists are beneath contempt.
All that counts is having had the "born-again" experience and believing the Bible to be literal. We all knew this, but what is important is that they apparently believe that us un-born-again types are actually not entirely human. In fact we are phantasms, constructs sent by the devil.
Thus any abuse or ugliness directed toward us, in their minds, racks up points with God and strikes a blow against Satan's snares.
In one scary thread on that board, I leaned, after pointing out that Jesus was called the Prince of Peace, that Jehovah believes in warring against those who worship a false God (see list above). When I said cutting social programs goes against what Jesus said about helping the poor, I was rapidly attacked--apparently only individuals are supposed to give to the poor, and it is WRONG for the government to involve itself.
Even those who are not religious, but are more like mini-Roves, see us as actually sub-human.There is no way that the tactics used against us could be bad or immoral, any more than the things you do to rearrange your furniture could be seen as immoral. It is like the tricks fishermen use to lure fish to their doom. Not immoral at all--in fact, rather more clever than anything else. The more devious it is, the cleverer the one who dreamed it up.
This is the way the enemy thinks. I was shocked and horrified at how wrong I had been in my conception of the way the Right thinks. I had assumed that we could oppose them with logical arguments and appeals to their humanity. What I learned was that, to use the fish analogy again, our arguments and appeals are no more to them than the fish struggling against the line.
So I--we--need to rethink things rather radically. Time for a paradigm shift. I for one am struggling to readjust my brain at the moment
all you liberal social anthropologists out there: get to work and find the achilles tendon of the bible belt. let's bring it on!
I saved these yesterday, but can't find them now. Now, note that the exit polls in key states showed a Kerry blowout, like we were seeing. Say it with me 'A DIEBOLD victory'! HOW are you going to win, when you loose in a BLOWOUT election? This is a key question!
hank
You fucking moron. Who did the exit polls? The same mother fuckers who work with SeeBS. They fucking LIED, just like SeeBS has!
Idiots.
http://www.mitofskyinternational...com/
company.htm
that should be I haven't SEEN any of
the breakdown stats....
sorrry....
What we did right?
Three years after 9/11, in the middle of a war, we were able to have a basic replay of an close election done during peace and prosperity.
Bush did slightly better than last time in the popular vote (+2%), but almost no states changed hands. 9/11 changed nothing. It was all GOP GOTV. Bush is still barely cracking 50% approval.
Less than 20 EV flipped (NH, maybe IA and NM). We were less than 100K votes from taking Ohio, a state without a functional Democratic party apparatus.
We won all the Upper Midwest states we needed and Bush desperately wanted (MI, WI, MN).
All the Senate seats we lost were in the Solid South and Alaska, hardly top Dem pickup opportunities. We were real real close in KY and AK, states that went 60% Bush. The geography was against us this year. Blanche Lincoln cruised to re-election in deep red AR.
We had financial parity for the first time ever.
We got roughly the same Popular Vote as last time (-1%).
GOP House gains are largely due to the fishy Texas redistricting. We held the line. Herseth won in a deep red SD that tossed Daschle.
We kept an incumbent wartime President at 51% and less than 290 EV. Those are Jimmy Carter in 1976 numbers. For comparison, Franklin Roosevelt in 1944 (typical GOP comparison) got 53.3% and over 400 EV. Reagan in 1984 got 58% and over 500 EV.
That's amazing.
What we did wrong?
John Edwards. Thanks for nothing. NC went 57% for Bush. VA had similar numbers. I didn't expect to win NC but 13 points is unforgivable. We did the same as Dukakis did in 1988, but we had a VP from the state on the ticket. We LOST GROUND from 2000. He also had no apparent effect on rural voters in other states (his supposed strength). He is completely worthless, we might as well have had Al Sharpton on the ticket.
Lima, I live in a red state. I'm not half the asshole citizens of our state are made out to be. Neither are a lot of my friends & neighbors--yes, even those who go to church and vote repug.
In fact, more than one-third of our votes were recorded for Kerry. Pretty good for Texas, don't you think?
One of the reasons a lot of people in red states are repugs is because the repugs don't look at them like they're inbred, pop-eyed, spavined freaks whose opinions are beneath consideration.
The Bad News - We lost.
The Good News - we now have a solid blue block in the NE and Upper MW not much different from our Civil War boundaries.
What is to be Done? Forget about in-roads in the solid red south. Consolidate our home-turf in the solid blue states, organize like hell in the weak blue states (WI, MI, PA, and NH, and start organizing in the week red states (NV, NM, VA, and possibly IA & FL). Check out www.electroal-vote.com.
gk
The Bad News - We lost.
The Good News - we now have a solid blue block in the NE and Upper MW not much different from our Civil War boundaries.
What is to be Done? Forget about in-roads in the solid red south. Consolidate our home-turf in the solid blue states, organize like hell in the weak blue states (WI, MI, PA, and NH, and start organizing in the week red states (NV, NM, VA, and possibly IA & FL). Check out www.electroal-vote.com.
gk
We need a new candidate for president.
We need to impeach the impeachable in Congress.
We need to defeat Republicans in '06.
We need to reposition the Democratic Party.
We need to continue to invigorate the base. We got out there - we just needed more of us, everywhere.
Let's rumble.
My dear Rocket: For today, all Jesus believers are inbred, pop-eyed, spavined freaks whose opinions are beneath consideration, but not contempt.
There was a man who was God who was tortured to death because someone ate an apple. That's not fantastical because too many find it comforting.
My dear Rocket: For today, all Jesus believers are inbred, pop-eyed, spavined freaks whose opinions are beneath consideration, but not contempt.
There was a man who was God who was tortured to death because someone ate an apple. That's not fantastical because too many find it comforting.
A-man, problem is that the pet peeves colour people's priorities about what needs to be improved by 06 or 08.
There are 1 million extra Kerry voters in CA. There are 1 million extra Kerry voters in NY.
For the good of the country, 75,000 Democrats from each state need to move to Ohio in 2008. Or it might be easier to persuade 150,000 from each state to move to Florida (if it doesn't slide into the sea before then).
Just make sure they're not felons.
Then you win! As long as they don't abolish the electoral college, you win. If they do that, you might try putting Edwards on the front of the ticket instead of the back. You might try that anyway.
Alderaan is of course exactly right --
Bush still has no mandate, though he'll
claim one for getting an extra two
percent of the vote; objectively
speaking, this was hardly a disaster
like Dukakais or Carter.
So why do I feel ashamed to be an
American anyway?
The Achilles heel of the Bible belt is education. If we can teach them critical reasoning when they're young, they'll be okay. But these days they are entering Masters degree programs without having the faintest familiarity with reason. Or science, empirical values, or history.
I'm not being facetious--my college students, even the smart ones, are not able to think and have not been asked to do so before in school. It's not an accident that Bush has been dumbing down schools as fast as he could. An ignorant population can be led so damn easily. Hey, that's why slaves weren't allowed to learn how to read.
DEWEY
DEFEAT
TRUEMEN
?
http://www.americaisawesome.com/
...owewelldowe.jpg
Lavrenty Beria, there's the rub. Not all people who live in red states are fundies. Or even Christians.
I happen to agree with you about most Christians, but I don't want to be one of the babies going out with the bath water, just because I live in Texas. There's a lot more subversives here than you'd think.
Fundis are pre-reason and pre-science. When the plague hit Europe in the Middle Ages, instead of trying to understand what happened and how to deal with it logically, Christian Europeans accused the Jews of poisoning the wells and slaughthered thousands of them. Fundis are of the same mind-set. A disaster happens and somebody must be responsible! Queers, immigrants, pro-choicers, liberals, Catholics. Fundis will always blame somebody outside the fundi tribe and will ignore science and facts.
Snake handlers and tongue talkers I can here in the distance ,I think they're calling my name
So the plan is to develop a fog machine as good as the GOP for 2006, 2008. That way, instead of 51% sleepwalking, its 100%? talk Orwellian.
This is the great dumbing down of politics and I'd hate to see dems take the same tack, but what choice do we have.
Depressing
One Achilles heel of the Bible Belt is the Bible. Being conversant with the Bible, Biblical archaeology, the history of Christianity, and related topics is something they don't expect to face. Fundamentalist Christians are not theologians, and they usually don't have much to say when you start quoting things right back at them.
Let's hope the repugs haven't demoralized us completely, and that the frustrations being vented in the lefty blogosphere are a healthy part of the grieving process, after which we will unite and organize again as we so admirably did in this election. As Josh Marshall notes today, we cannot let the infrastructure and unity built up in this election to be annihilated in its infacy by the repugs.
Let's hope the repugs haven't demoralized us completely, and that the frustrations being vented in the lefty blogosphere are a healthy part of the grieving process, after which we will unite and organize again as we so admirably did in this election. As Josh Marshall notes today, we cannot let the infrastructure and unity built up in this election to be annihilated in its infacy by the repugs.
We do need to perform an election post-mortem, but it needs to be a dispassionate one. The 2004 patient is dead. Let's see what we can do for 2006.
I for one am much more involved and am in a fighting mood.
Ignorant people are pretty vulnerable to the suggestions of fundamentalism. We base educational availability on income (through property taxes). Then we complain about poor, stupid people becoming fundamentalists and that this country is being turned over to them.
It's not going to correct itself in 4 years, but getting some equality in education would go a long way toward fixing the problem you folks are having with the South.
I am half serious about my suggestions to move here but the fact is that there is a southern migration taking place and industry and technology is coming with it (and the real rednecks down here don't like it). This problem may correct itself eventually if the north looks at the south as an opportunity instead of a problem.
Paul,
Very good point. . .
www.counterpunch.com
Cockburn's essay today is required reading for Bush-lite centrists and "OK, I'll Hold My Nose And Vote For Kerry" progressives (people like, *sniff*, me).
Meanwhile, when are you DNC/DLC bloggers going to start getting something right? Nary a one of you is without egg on your faces today. If the catastrophic failure of the Kerry campaign stands for anything, it's the pointlessness of heeding gullibloggers.
Mars, my sweet, sweet bitches! Mars!
Hecate
Why do I think less of drilling for oil on the 4th planet and more of the God of War when you say that, Hecate?
what we need to do now is:
1. to light some fires under the asses of what remains of democrats in the House and Senate.
2. to start working NOW to get more dems elected in the mid-term elections.
3. to learn how to start playing hardball the way the republicans do.
4. to push our mainstream media to investigate and report on what thses bastards are up to--in other words, we need to lean on them to start doing their fucking jobs!
Finally, we need to start educating the American people about what being liberal really is. Atrios is right. Our meaning has been hijacked and subverted.
I've been fighting these same people since 1968 and I'm not about to quit now.
cosmic grappler
I'm down with that, too, grappler.
The only thing we can do to help in future elections is physically destroy every single electronic voting machine that doesn't produce a verifiable paper receipt.
Florida was infested with these things, and, since we have no paper trail, I have no reason at all to believe they were clean and fair.
Combined with the antics of Sproul & Associates, and vanishing absentee ballots, the preponderance of evidence strongly suggests that Florida was stolen, again.
Ohio had some of those machines as well, and we know that the CEO of Diebold had promised to deliver Ohio's electoral votes to Bush.
Don't start taking apart Kerry and Edwards-Don't feed on our own. They worked, they fought, they were slimed, smeared, lied about-our surrogates were unprepared too often. Couldn't correct the lie in the question - had to answer the question instead of steamrolling the questioner.
Those of you with long memories of the fights - at least they didn't shoot the candidate.
My beef is with Bush. Where's that piss-pants ninny at?
.
Look at where the base is eroding. It's not rocket science to see it's among the church-going citizens.
SeriousQuery
Utter nonesense. Church goers that like to wear white sheets and burn crosses are leaving the Democrats and joining Dear Leader.
But Serious, baby, the eroding was 10 years ago.
Bet that after they figure how many votes were stolen yesterday, Kerry really won by a landslide.
My first act this morning was to cancel my cable TV subscription w/ an accompanying letter to the CEO of the company. No more Fox News, no more CNN, no more of my hard-earned money financing the misinformation and bullshit spewing out of these partisan networks. A tiny gesture, but it feels good.
I'm going to take up painting.
Bye, Rob!
Be sure to take some of your friends obverseas with you!
LOL.
_____________
Jenna Talia | Email | Homepage | 11.03.04 - 3:50 pm | #
Unfortunately, with bush still in, that's where a lot of us may have to go in order to get all the jobs he's helping ship overseas....
My 2 cents, I recommend this New Yorker article which discusses how few people in this country (about 10% according to the writer) actually have a coherent political belief system.
Seventy per cent of Americans cannot name their senators or their congressman. Forty-nine per cent believe that the President has the power to suspend the Constitution. Only about thirty per cent name an issue when they explain why they voted the way they did, and only a fifth hold consistent opinions on issues over time. Rephrasing poll questions reveals that many people don’t understand the issues that they have just offered an opinion on. According to polls conducted in 1987 and 1989, for example, between twenty and twenty-five per cent of the public thinks that too little is being spent on welfare, and between sixty-three and sixty-five per cent feels that too little is being spent on assistance to the poor.
In the face of this evidence, three theories have arisen. The first is that electoral outcomes, as far as “the will of the people” is concerned, are essentially arbitrary. The fraction of the electorate that responds to substantive political arguments is hugely outweighed by the fraction that responds to slogans, misinformation, “fire alarms” (sensational news), “October surprises” (last-minute sensational news), random personal associations, and “gotchas.” Even when people think that they are thinking in political terms, even when they believe that they are analyzing candidates on the basis of their positions on issues, they are usually operating behind a veil of political ignorance. They simply don’t understand, as a practical matter, what it means to be “fiscally conservative,” or to have “faith in the private sector,” or to pursue an “interventionist foreign policy.” They can’t hook up positions with policies. From the point of view of democratic theory, American political history is just a random walk through a series of electoral options. Some years, things turn up red; some years, they turn up blue.
D*mn...d*mn...d*mn...how the fcuk did this happen?!
*Sigh*
Went through the stages of grief pretty quickly this morning. Woke up angry, but at a loss for what to do next. Came up with a "to-do" list.
1. Update and reload social protest songs on the iPod.
2. Study these "evangelicals" in an effort to figure out how to block their coming attempts to control my thoughts, take away my daughter's rights and demean/humiliate/execute my friends.
2a. Figure out how to connect with the red-staters who have god in their hearts but no money in their pockets.
3. Patiently explain to foreign friends that BushCo is gleefully ignoring the 49% of Americans who violently disagree with its policies.
4. Advocate for a new Senate Minority Leader who will be an even bigger pain in the ass than Daschle was to the Rethugs.
5. Get research tools in place to be ready to insta-check the backgrounds of the wave of reactionary judges who will be coming for confirmation for life appointments in courts.
More blacks are moving back South and this trend has acclerated in the last ten years. 500,000 moved back since 1989. Also whites used to unions and other outlandish things are moving south because of factory jobs.
There's a lot more subversives here [in Texas] than you'd think.
First hand experience, I confirm that statement. But they have certainly been successfully marginalized by the racists, the Birchers, and the falange.
My fave Texas one-off was the night Reagan bombed Tripoli. The Houston affiliate of PBS knew it was going to happen, and aired The Lion of the Desert.
We need to re-sync up our party with New Testament elements of Christianity to get back to our roots.
No thank you. Separation of church and state is what made this country great.
Dear Fellow Moonbats,
Well, they did it. Despite all the trickery, special effects and deceit I could muster, they went ahead and elected Bush anyway. Actually, I'm kind of relieved, now I don't have the pressure of being "That Asshole who screwed up politics with his mockumentary." As of right now, I'm looking for any and all Kerry election parties that still have food left on the buffet.
To the fans of my work, fear not, I have some very big plans that I will share with you. I’ll be poking around Florida looking for some disenfranchised minority voters (hopefully about 350,000 of them). Can't wait to edit the film from that trip! And, I'll also be hooking up with Morgan Spurlock, director of the hit film "Supersize Me"...we're doing a sequel called "Mi Mucho Grande" where we eat nothing but Taco Bell for a year and sit around lighting each other's farts and blaming our burns on Haliburton, of course. I smell Cannes!
Or is that something else.....
Love You Guys!
Michael Moore
Kerry got Diebolded.
That's the real post-mortem.
BTW, Hecate, I did visualize blue Virginia yesterday. I know you made them work hard to keep it red. Maybe next time.
"the MAJORITY of Americans love George Bush.
Bullshit. Every last one of the fascist crazies came out yesterday to vote for their beloved Leader. And that amounted to 51% of the 59% that bothered to vote. Not even 30% of America "loves" Bush.
"
Jesus, how specific do I have to be? Okay: a MAJORITY of the HUMAN BEINGS who came OUT TO VOTE on TUESDAY NOVEMBER 2 2004 obviously FEEL POSITIVELY ENOUGH TOWARD GWB TO WARRANT CASTING A VOTE FOR HIM.
Is that better?
Four legs good: RIGHT ON!!
.
The Achilles heel of the Bible belt is that nobody holds them accountable by their own standards. Start to.
Pro-life? They should oppose the death penalty. Pro-free market? Justify drug prohibition. Christian compassion? Don't let them say it without explaining why 2 million are incarcerated. Healthcare cuts? Quote Jesus to them on the sick and infirmed, or better, get local ministers to do it.
Force them to justify their actions in terms of their own morality or look like hypocrites. It's crap that only individuals should give to charity according to the Bible, but I doubt the person posting debated the point. Those who are able to do so should, indeed must.
Saying "education" is the Achilles heel implies all us Red Staters are just morons, and as a message perpetuates the often-accurate perception of Dem arrogance. You're not going to convince anybody new by calling them ignorant.
Spoko
I loved your post and I hope you don't mind if I copy it and send it
in a few E-mails.
You guys rock. I know I've said it in other threads, but it can't be said too much. This Canadian is very proud of all of you.
And thanks Atrios for the strong, level-headed words I've come to rely on you for. There's a reason I spend more time on this site than any other.
Now let's keep being the good guys.
Anonymous was me 5:38
Florida has, of course, swung for Bush which leaves me no choice but to understand that the beloved state I live in is packed to capacity with strange, fearful supporters of the modern day Mr. PotatoHead. Wake up, people! This is not your childhood Mr. PotatoHead! This son-of-a-bitch has Dick Cheney kung-fu grip and a pair of Colin Powell nunchucks designed to crack open your skull, rip out the thinking parts and brain-fuck the gooey insides. He's got Powell's face at every meeting from Pentagon planning sessions to your local Baker's Club muffin meeting and you're falling for it. This Mr. PotatoHead will, at the push of a button, unleash U.S. Special Forces on your unsuspecting ass for harboring weapons of mass destruction - even if you don't have weapons of mass destruction! He'll bust open the lid of the toy chest gibbering in mean Texan slang and climb out on a rope made of Paul Wolfowitz's ass-hair. He'll rappel up the side of your bed while you sleep at night and dash over your chest screaming unintelligible gibberish about terror and placng words together in phrases, such as 'Army of Compassion', which are not only oxymoronic but also teeth-cracking stupid! Meanwhile, Ashcroft has managed to sneak into the country's most well-protected museum, drape the Constitution, and ass-rape it so hard that the poor bastard's bleeding and sticky form is near unrecognizable.
But is Kerry any better? I don't know. But it's worth a shot to find out at this point. It's come down to wondering which monster will destroy less of the planet: Godzilla or Mothra. Sure, Godzilla has a killer fire-breathing trick going on and can fuck up a downtown like nobody's business. But he's no Gamera and he doesn't give a flying space-reptile's ass about the children. Mothra, on the other hand, can fly and... well, he can fly. And in flying, he has the power to ram into shit at incredibly high speeds. But he's no Gamera either, so the choice is both clear and frustrating.
9:34 A.M. Not even the chamomile tea can soothe this undercurrent of fear and anxiety rippling through the country. I can feel it in my veins, an undeniable twitch that forces me to hit the Refresh button CNN every 86 seconds or so. Do I bother checking any other websites? No. Do I have cable television? No. I don't care at this point because I could very well lay this keyboard down, strip naked, ascend to my roof and cover myself in a topical ointment of choice. And in 10 or so hours, when I climb down or fall prey to some emergency service's tranq dart, the race will be over and a new (or returning) Overlord will be cackling from the heights of Mt. Rushmore. Lightning will crack in the backround and thunder will roll across the heavens. The fields will weep blood and the skies rain frogs for one thousand years of a four-year run until we suddenly rouse from our stupor, rock the vote, and chew our fingernails again in another 72 marathon of number crunching electoral sadism.
We may be a minority here, but we are the majority of the human race. Europe and the rest of the world will continue their policy of mostly non-confrontational non-cooperation with the US. The US is too powerful and scary to confront aggressively, but notice how rarely other countries do what the admin wants them to do? I suggest we adopt the same tactics.
I wanna hug every single one of you.
Thanks for your hard work.
Atrios, thanks for allowing us to express our opinions.
You will be around for a long time to come.
There's a lot more subversives here [in Texas] than you'd think.
There was a Democratic Revolution in el Paso County, Texas yesterday.
http://66.221.25.230/enr1county70.htm
or if no workee try
http://66.221.25.230/enrnovgen04.htm for county race summary choose El Paso.
congrats, Phredd, and thanks for the good news. How'd they do it, majority Hispanic district?
"Lion of the Desert": great movie with Anthony Quinn. Has old footage of *huge* refugee camps. Sometimes I think in the future we'll all be in a refugee camp, with attack helicopters hovering overhead.
Atrios: You don't want to look at them, fine. Claiming they are not important is simply garbage, however.
The post mortems are valuable because they are the lense through which to view what was done right in '04. When we look at the influence of the GOTV campaign, poll-watching, fund-raising, and mobilizing volunteers, we can continue to build on what worked and dump what didn't.
We must refine our techniques and strengthen our resolve. We all agree that political survival requires this adaptation.
Penn has some great lessons for us. Florida and New Mexico present the same opportunities. Bring on the post-mortems. Turnout was good, but we see that we have more room to expand the base. Further we can see from port-mortems that we must find a way to frame the discussion in a way that allows in-roads among our kin who view us as Godless, Gunless, and Gay.
Our house cannot stand divided. We are, once again, faced with a political climate of brother against brother. The Union needs to find it's common voice, and the onus is on the left to field real and compelling change.
Tactical Suggestions
The tax revenues directed to Red States support pork barrel projects like dams and canals, plus military bases and aerospace contractors, a large portion of which are below the Mason-Dixon line. Pressure your Blue congressmen to vote against every Red flowing appropriation. Choke the vipers.
Write nice letters to the editors of Red City newspapers, favoring massive chicken and hog farms that want to locate near red-state suburbs. Its god's blessing.
Invite Moonies and any other crackpot sects to move into the South and give em a dose of that real time religion. Donations might help.
Nature has surprises that can be leveraged. Lobby against increases in the next FEMA budget allocation for storm cleanup. Let them gather in prayer for help with the next 5 hurricanes in a row.
Continuation of the record drought across the US southwestwill have those Plaines State Reds down on their knees begging for Federal help within a year or two. 'No no you naughty ones: we must let the free market help us. Pray for rain'.
Special place in hell for the empowerment crew:
(Who should have known better)
Tony Blair
Colin Powell
John McCain
Please add to the list
Just received this E-mail, for those of you who haven't read your E-mails yet.
Earlier today I spoke to President Bush, and offered him and Laura our congratulations on their victory. We had a good conversation, and we talked about the danger of division in our country and the need, the desperate need, for unity for finding the common ground, coming together. Today, I hope that we can begin the healing.
In America, it is vital that every vote counts, and that every vote be counted. But the outcome should be decided by voters, not a protracted legal process. I would not give up this fight if there was a chance that we would prevail. But it is now clear that even when all the provisional ballots are counted, which they will be, there won't be enough outstanding votes for our campaign to be able to win Ohio. And therefore, we cannot win this election.
It was a privilege and a gift to spend two years traveling this country, coming to know so many of you. I wish I could just wrap you in my arms and embrace each and every one of you individually all across this nation. I thank you from the bottom of my heart. Thank you.
To all of you, my volunteers and online supporters, all across this country who gave so much of themselves, thank you. Thanks to William Field, a six-year-old who collected $680, a quarter and a dollar at a time selling bracelets during the summer to help change America. Thanks to Michael Benson from Florida who I spied in a rope line holding a container of money. It turned out he raided his piggy bank and wanted to contribute. And thanks to Alana Wexler, who at 11 years old and started Kids for Kerry.
I thank all of you, who took time to travel, time off from work, and their own vacation time to work in states far and wide. You braved the hot days of summer and the cold days of the fall and the winter to knock on doors because you were determined to open the doors of opportunity to all Americans. You worked your hearts out, and I say, don't lose faith. What you did made a difference, and building on itself, we will go on to make a difference another day. I promise you, that time will come -- the election will come when your work and your ballots will change the world, and it's worth fighting for.
I'm proud of what we stood for in this campaign, and of what we accomplished. When we began, no one thought it was possible to even make this a close race, but we stood for real change, change that would make a real difference in the life of our nation, the lives of our families, and we defined that choice to America. I'll never forget the wonderful people who came to our rallies, who stood in our rope lines, who put their hopes in our hands, who invested in each and every one of us. I saw in them the truth that America is not only great, but it is good.
So here -- with a grateful heart, I leave this campaign with a prayer that has even greater meaning to me now that I've come to know our vast country so much b
All I know is that I'm done with the MSM news on television.
ABC
CBS
NBC
CNN
MSNBC
You are horrible guardians of democracy. You prefer to sell the soap rather than inform the citizenry. The Fourth Estate sits on GOP property. Shame on you.
No more tools like Russert, Blitzer, Stephanopolous (sp?), et al. I wash my hands of the lot of them.
"What matters isn't what was done wrong, but what needs to be done right
for the '06 elections."
Rove couldn't have said it better. By all means, don't look back. At all
costs, win tomorrow.
Yes, THEY, thanks to their television allies, can say that. "We," however,
can't.
How, precisely, does one do the "right" thing without discovering -- much less admitting what went wrong?
Isn't this WHERE WE STARTED WITH, ummm, THE INCUMBENT?
Right: In today's political zeitgeist, almost EVERYTHING national begins/ends with the messenger.
Right: As demonstrated with Sinclair on a small, spontaneous, though
demonstrably effective scale, THREATS can and will IMPACT the level of
distortion by messengers bearing false messages.
Right: Separate and apart from policy commitments to media reform, until
Democrats get OFF their asses to launch an organized, sustained INSURGENCY
of threatened/actual boycotts against the status quo (pro Republican
distortion) of cable/tv news, everything else (i.e., strategic, tactical
planning, changes in party leadership) is BLATHER.
Wrong: Forget the mistakes of misplaced energy and resources? Forget our
passive, ex post facto whining about tv news distortion, assassination of
the last two Democratic presidential campaigns? Our continued capitulation
to "tv news" and its insidious, pernicious effect upon the MISINFORMED
masses? ABSOLUTELY WRONG.
Cont'd.
So here -- with a grateful heart, I leave this campaign with a prayer that has even greater meaning to me now that I've come to know our vast country so much better and that prayer is very simple: God bless America.
Thank you,
John Kerry
GOP: fuck you.
GOP: fuck you.
Has anyone compiled a list of the 2006
Senate
House
Gubernatorial
Sec. of State
races?
Also, we should have a narrow field of Pres. candidates within the 6-9 months. Fuck the primaries, we want party unity and exposure more than a 10 months before the country votes for our leader.
Well, America, how about that! Four more years of George W. Bush! Are we excited yet?
Just think, four more years of endless war, endless fear-mongering, endless American soldiers and Iraqi civilians dying every single day, endless increases in the deficit and air and water pollution, endless cronyism, endless tax cuts for billionaires, endless shredding of the Bill of Rights, endless under-funding of public education, endless color-coded terror alerts, endless bleeding of the Social Security and Medicare budgets, and endless right wing judicial appointments! I haven't been this excited and hopeful since my dog died!
I am so glad America has seen the light and elected George W. Bush, not just because of four more years of the above, but because this wonderful Christian, God-appointed president will save us all from the abortionists and the queers who want to defile the sanctity of marriage. Let the good times roll!
Someone wrote a to-do list which included
"Study these "evangelicals" in an effort to figure out how to block their coming attempts to control my thoughts, take away my daughter's rights and demean/humiliate/execute my friends."
Then I urge you to check out www.evangelicaloutpost.com. Lots of political discussion and Joe Carter, the administrator, is not inclined to ban people (but the trolls generally don't go out of their way to be gaping assholes). Reading the blog is a learning experience, albeit a discouraging one.
There is no dishonor in fighting and losing. But there is no honor at all in quitting.
I would argue that there is dishonor in continuing to fight unwinnable battles.
Let's move on to the battles we can win, and fight hard.
For a laugh, check out my webpage for a look at the cover of tomorrow's Time Magazine. I'm not sure where it came from, but it's pretty damn funny.
-Angry
AngryKevin.com
I want to share a little story with you:
My family and I have been living in Estonia, which was occupied by the Soviets for 50 years, and I’m here to participate in democracy-promotion.
The left has never been united like this, and motivated like this. This is one battle in a larger struggle—it’s hard to see now, but let me tell you about Gerhard.
Gerhard is a 91-year old Estonian man who rides down to this farm on his bicycle (!!!) several times a week. He was born under the authoritarian Russian Czars. He was a young man during World War I, and he saw Estonia become an independent country and a democracy for the first time.
Then he saw the Soviets overrun the country. Then the Nazis drove them out. They forced him into the military against his will. The Soviets, of course, advanced again and reoccupied Estonia a few years later. As a former German soldier, though, he was ideologically suspect and deported to Siberia for 13 years to work in a mine and have one bowl of cabbage soup a day.
It took fifty years, but he saw Estonia regain independence and the Soviet Union—which I never could have imagined falling during the 1980’s—collapse. I’ve never met a kinder person in my life. So when he sees me despair over Bush’s win, he can take the long view.
“Some things take time. If it were easy, somebody would have done it already.”
If you think the situation is bleak, take the long view. Imagine what it looked like for this country of 1.4 million people taking on the Soviet Union. You know what? They were right, and they won.
We’ll do it too. The future is so bright because we are so united, and we are so united just because Bush has done so much to divide us as Americans. We wouldn’t be in this position without him.
The future is ours to achieve. Take it from a guy with the long view. 91 years old, and when the sun comes up again tomorrow, as improbable as that sounds, he’ll be getting back on his bike and pedaling down this dirt road in a free Estonia that outlasted the Soviet Union.
-doyle
The legacy of Mr. Bush's second term will be with the judiciary and the economy.
His policies will be unfettered by not needing to run for election again.
Of course, Mr Cheney will retire to a board room soon and Mr. Bush will need to appoint a new Vice-President.
Jeb Bush.
Thx, Stunt Woman!
what Cletus said.
Oh PLEZZEEEE.....
Rent a brain....
All the little dem and repubs involved in the never ending politico hobby game may think it is just dandy to continue "fighting the good fight"
Well, wise up...what is going down the toilet while we regroup for another "election" in 2006 will be so severe that you won't be able to recoup any normality for this country for decades.
Face it, we don't have a government we have a criminal enterprize with locations world wide for better service.
You better be committed to finding that one in a million rebel candiate with the charm and the smarts to know how to roll the christians, the lower class and the middle class into one group with ONE COMMON ENEMY...one they fear and hate more than foreign ghost and being left behind in a future but unscheduled rapture.
And that COMMON ENEMY is none other than our very own political money changers and rulers in the temple.
There aint nothing like learning you have been BETRAYED and made a fool of by your very own, to unite and rouse people to throw out
those vipers living in the house they are paying the mortage on.
Count on it, until you learn how to fuse the basest and the highest, the greed mongers and the bleeding hearts, the religious and the secular into one group with one common enemy above all other enemies, the political ploy of fear of loss vrs. desire for gain won't produce anything close to cleaning up this government.
Anyone who wants to "Unite" for the good of the country...go for it...personally I am not joining any sucide pact.
To the people I've heard talking about moving to Canada today: don't! U.S. policies will reach out and affect you wherever you are. We live in the most powerfull nation that the world has ever known and by turning your back on it you just make it easier for the Repubs to win next time. You've got a moral obligation to fight the good fight.
It is obvious that the usurping of our government, the election process and the media is complete.
All that is left to the citizenry are guerilla methods.
The old channels for change are no longer available.
There will be no change unless there is a revolt.
Not to accept that is deluded.
I am not worried about the future of the Democratic party.
John Kerry won't have to fix Iraq. George Bush will. And what's coming will be hideous.
John Kerry won't have to fix the economy. George Bush will.
I don't think he has either the intention or the ability to do either.
I think that Bush will declare victory in Iraq and pull out because there's very little else he can do. And that will mean A Shiite government in Iran's pocket controlling what will then be the world's largest oil reserve. And they will have nuclear weapons.
We've already seen that foreign brokers have refused to pick up America's debt. Faced with a Japan-style economic meltdown, I think that Bush will do nothing.
We'll have a draft.
We'll have Roe v. Wade overturned.
The seniors will have to actually live under the new Medicare law.
We'll see the first steps to privatizing social security.
We'll see gas and heating oil prices a LOT higher.
Most of the americans who voted for GWB or who stayed home don't really think that our middle-class prosperous way of life will ever go away. We're the greatest country in the world, right? Our military kicks ass, right? ANd that's because we're a good solid Christian nation and all.
The only shock to the system they acknowledged was 9/11, and they were and are feverish to get it right.
We see further down the road. We see the danger--but we're not there yet. I don't think most of the Bush voters are fundie triumphalists: they just don't see what's wrong with what George is doing.
Yet.
Face it: Iraq is an abstraction like Kosovo was or Somalia. 1100 dead is juat a number--unless it hits you personally. And the deficit is just another number.
And face it: the health care crisis has been buiding for decades. W didn't cause it, so they don't blame him.
And they still 'have benefits.'
In short, it's not bad enough yet.
What I'm worried about--and so should the trolls--is the unravelling of middle class America. They think it can't happen. And it's just not bad enough yet.
It can't happen here? Why not? We don't manufacture anything that others can't pick up the slack on. We're not a manufacturing superpower any more. We're not technological leaders any more. Use your Nokia cell phone to call up the tech support guy in India about a problem you have with your Singapore-made computer. What we have is a vibrant middle class, that consumes and spends and is a great market. That's all we are for the rest of the world. Impoverish the middle class and we're Brazil.
It not only can happen, it will happen. It's happening.
I'm not enough of a Trotskyite or a neocon to rejoice that worsening conditions will wake people up. There's a lot of misery out there, and there'll be a lot more.
And when the middle class unemployed use up theit home equity loans--when their ARM's start going up steeply--when their health benefits get cut and they lose
their life savings on one emergency room procedure--when gas goes up to % bucks a gallon and winter heating bills triple--and triple again--
--no, I have no worry for the future of the Democratic party. George W Bush will go down.
I'm scared how many people he'll take down with him.
5 bucks, pardon me.
Let's aim for 2004, not 2006. It may be way too late by 2006.
Let's aim for 2004, not 2006. It may be way too late by 2006.
"Guerilla methods"? Violence is either a cop beating the shit out of some black guy or some Rethug committing or allowing violence as an excuse for cops to "take the gloves off". That's all violence can hope to be. Right now Bush has a pathetic and probably inaccurate edge in each state of about 1%. Start bombing, even as surgically as the Weathermen (who never got caught and who never killed or hurt anyone), and that edge will explode to a real support base.
Very nice, Doyle...thanks!
Damn, pbg, you make a very scary and persuasive case.
who said guerilla methods had to be violent?
I completely agree with Atrios. If we allow the media to get the left to start ripping itself up with internal argument, we will be destroyed. Unity is what we showed and must continue to show in the coming days.
After Qusay W. Bush's reign ends in 2008, will we be led by Gov. Uday Bush?
I was stunned like so many of you. I believed the presentation at the convention and the four debates made the Democratic ticket look much more able to serve than the Republicans. The majority of the electorate went for a President who is out to screw them out of health care, overtime pay and Social Security. They went for the party that wraps itself in the flag and flips the bird at soldiers in uniform and veterans. If the darkness to come is anything like life in the Nixon years, at least we have a lot of great music to look forward to.
wow! some of you are really brilliant! it's nice to log on and read what i'm feeling today. on to fight tomorrow. just want to lick my wounds today. thanks
Incredible, the Dems LET THEM STEAL THE ELECTION, nuff' said. If the repubs can do this electronically, with impunity, you all can be assured of years of their rule. Me, I'm gonna go visit my gals family in England, and then continue, maybe to the continent. I have enjoyed tremendously the back and forth on these threads, best wishes to all.
i have to respectfully disagree with atrios, incognito and winston churchill --
atrios' take is too complacent
incognito's too apocalyptic
churchill's too unstrategic
the first thing to do after a major defeat is ASSESSMENT:
accurately determine what precisely happened and exactly why
imho, in order of relevance:
1) rigged voting machines used strategically;
2) wholesale media bias;
3) the knee-jerk reaction of too many Americans to overlook complexity in how they assess leadership, national and international problems & the opinions of others;
and
4) etc.
" I could not bring myself to vote for Kerry because he did not convince me to do so. "
Tells us all we need to know. Like you should be giving anybody here advice.
I say we aim for Santorum, a nice big fat easy target. Lot's of smelly mud to sling there.
as much as I want to be positive, I also can't help but wish for a Ken Starr of the left to come along and pick these bastards off one by one in a legal frenzy. How long before we could get just one of them to lie under oath, and catch them at it? Of course it'd have to be about something really vile and harmful to the safety of the country (like blowjobs) as opposed, to, say bilking the treasury out of billions through a no-bid contract or anything innocuous like that ... happy hunting!
Yes! There is a time to be sad and angry and a time to keep working on making this the country we think it is and ought to be.
Who needs a lobotomy when one could instead read through all of this?
Especially the moron who thinks guerilla methods have to be violent.
Get a clue. Street marketers are "guerilla" marketing.
Oh, and the inevitable Southern defender who thinks that the repugs don't treat the inbred idiots who vote for them as the inbred morons they are. They do, just by counting on them, and they're laughing at the scum if they even give them a second thought. The only thing the Dems are saying is that if they WEREN'T inbred retards they would know better than to vote against their interests, in favor of people who count on their being inbred backwoods mouth-breathers. So, Dems are counting on enough gray matter to recognize they're being made fool of, while thugs are counting on such feeblebrained belligerence that there is no hope of improvement for the lowlifes. Who is being more insulting? That is, if one CAN insult subhuman zombies.
There was only one intelligent comment in this entire mindboggling thread of comments. The one that said it's going to take till 2020 for us to organize and accomplish what the rightwing has in the past 40 years.
So, let's look at a reasonable goal like that...and in the meantime, guerilla tactics to keep the media off-balance in their SLANT, and to give those we withdraw our financial support from the jitters and whatever payback is due to them.
To my fellow citizens,
One thing is certain about the US post-election: there are at least 50 million people in this country that are idiots, depending on your point of view.
Personally, I am at a total loss to account for Bush's appeal. I see him as a narrow minded, vulgar, lying power monger and a zealot. Quite frankly, he scares me, and if you were paying attention, he should scare you too.
I cannot understand why Americans voted for four more years of "W". Are we not in debt enough? Are there other enemies to create, more allies to antagonize? Are the majority of the people in this country ready to defund and disband Social Security, Medicare and any social program that Rush Limbaugh considers a hand-out? Are we really turning our backs on secularism, considered thought and human compassion?
The Supreme Court is about to be packed with additional Bible-thumping bigots who are aching to get women and minorities in this country back under the Jesus-thumb. We're going to start seeing Creationism taught more and more in public schools as a new generation of kids get edumacated the Bush way. Gay people are going to be legislated back into pariahs. Quarantines and concentration camps are sure to follow.
Worse, because of the Bush Administration's wholehearted embrace of nepotism and corruption, the economy is going to continue to suffer, unless you're one of the oligarchs who gave to Our Clueless Leader. Let's not kid ourselves - cronies like Ken Lay are not going to suffer or serve any jail time with (f)Ashcroft as Attorney General. Corporations like Enron will still be run like Ponzi schemes, and we'll keep getting stuck with the bill. Remember BCCI? Ask John McCain about it.
Many of the fundamental economic principles of this Administration revolve around de-regulation and hallucination. The Orwellian "Healthy Forests" and "Clear Skies" initiatives are nothing more than boons for loggers and polluters at the long term expense of the American people. Clean coal my ass: teach your children to diagnose asthma, bronchitis and lead poisoning now. Move to higher land, especially if you live in costal areas. Rising sea levels aren't going to follow the Republican "what global warming?" script.
And our economic motto is going to continue to be "Borrow foolishly, and spend like it's Daddy's credit card." How are we going to pay for this war, let alone any additional conflicts that Mr. Preemptive and Antagonistic is bound to start? Listen up all you baby boomers out there - in the future there will be no safety net for homeless vets, the elderly, the malnourished or the dying. We had wars to pay for. Selfishness has won the day and your sidewalks just got a hell of a lot uglier.
My advice to married folks is this: re-train yourselves to enjoy only the missionary position. What happens in the bedroom is fair game under the new Christendom. You might also want to figure out how you can make it on a single i
Fight on? Hell yes!!!
Take the fight to Congress--once the wingnut poobahs and their screaming hordes, drunk with power, make a misstep that even complacent purple-staters can gape at, Bork 'em into oblivion.
Let's convince the other 51% that a one-party government is bad for everyone...
here's the rest:
My advice to married folks is this: re-train yourselves to enjoy only the missionary position. What happens in the bedroom is fair game under the new Christendom. You might also want to figure out how you can make it on a single income, as working mothers are now officially bad people. Somewhere, Dan Quayle is proudly strutting around the country like an aryan John Travolta looking to pick another fight with Murphy Brown.
If you work for a living, get ready to learn a new vocabulary where less now means more. You'll have "better" healthcare, "improved" benefit packages, a "bigger" salary, and a "non-discriminatory" work environment. But your wallet will still weigh a lot less at the end of the month, and you're going to get sick of hearing about how cute Katie Couric is after a while in our new consolidated monoculture.
This is going to be the Golden Age of reality TV – a ratings boon if you own a news network, but not so good for the rest of us. Tragedies like Columbine are going to start happening with the regularity of a high school prom as the Bush Administration continues to sell their "guns equal security" bullshit. They've already made us more secure by relaxing background checks at gun shows and ending the ban on the sale of assault weapons, but I'm sure with a new mandate, "W" will find new ways to make us even secure-er.
If you create even remotely reality-based art, be prepared to be defunded, investigated, villified and ridiculed again. Unless you're doing doe-eyed paintings of God (the white one) or kittens (no genitalia please). Bush now has a mandate to suppress anything that smacks of dissent under the guise of national security. Loyalty oaths, like those required of anyone going to a Bush campaign event, are going to become commonplace at your office, gallery and library. Paranoia is the new freedom.
Part of me wants to believe that Diebold managed to put in a fix and add more votes to the Bush column (The head of Diebold did promise to deliver Ohio to Bush, after all). I would like nothing more than a plausible way to explain that the results of this election as an aberration. A mistake. A plot by withered rat-men with enormous resources and hunched backs. At least that would give me a focus for my anger, my rage. It's much harder (and disappointing) to believe that the majority of the people in this country are themselves so greedy, so callous, and so deluded that they would willingly vote for George W. Bush.
My wish for Bush supporters? May you all get the country you deserve.
My hope for the rest of the country? That we continue to fight for what is decent, humane and fair for all of us. And that George W. Bush has not one peaceful night's sleep for the next four years.
Look on the bright side...
1) The Daily Show will still be really damn funny. They couldn't ask for a better foil than Bush. (Oddly enough, neither could Osama bin Laden...)
2) The Smirking Chimp won't have to change its name for four years.
Now honestly, doesn't that make it all worthwhile??
Kerry won the election.
Karl Rove, "The Architect" engineered the coup de grace on election results via the modem connections to the central vote tabulating computers and then changed (hacked) millions of votes in seconds.
Get behind Bev Harris@blackboxvoting.org and pour your energies into her movement...without it our Democracy will not survive.
Please, I implore you before it's too late!
well gee ONE thing we could do right as a nation would be to actually let the young people and the black people and the old people and the poor people and the ones with really funny names ACTUALLY GET TO VOTE, just like everyone else, and then even we could COUNT THEIR VOTES, too...just a thought.
if i sound bitter it is becuase the police arrested a bunch of my kids a couple hours ago for protesting the fact that they were illegally disenfranchised with no way to seek redress...but i guess no one gives two shits about that in such a great "democracy" as this one.
probably it will be my black neighbors next--hope i can get there in time to be arrested WITH them.
THAT shit has GOT to stop!
-L.
From Reuters today:
"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Republicans got ready on Wednesday to flex their muscles as an expanded majority in the U.S. Congress and help push President Bush's largely stalled conservative agenda in his second term.
Fresh from a string of Election Day triumphs on Tuesday, Republicans eyed a number of targets. They range from putting more anti-abortion judges on the bench and finally winning approval of a comprehensive energy bill to expanded tax cuts and medical liability reform.
Republicans also plan another crack at winning approval of a proposed White House-backed constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.
"With a bigger majority, we can do even more exciting things," House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, a Texas Republican, told a local television station in his home state.
Returns from Tuesday's elections, coupled with TV network and party projections, showed Republicans would hold at least 55 of the 100 Senate seats, four more than they now have, and pick up at least a few seats in the 435-member House of Representatives, where they now hold 227.
"Clearly we now have enough for an energy bill," said Senate Republican campaign chairman George Allen of Virginia.
"Next year is going to be a lot more productive in Congress than this one was," predicted Bruce Josten, a top executive and lobbyist at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce... "
We must demand that the surviving congressional Dems exercise discipline like never before and beat at the Rethug agenda like a pinata until relief comes in '06.
ok. earlier i was more depressed than incognito. i'm settling down some, and i may stick around after all. i am getting my passport updated though, and i will shift a good bit of may savings into some other currency, probably euros. i will probably aquire at least one firearm as well.
Thank God for this website. Here's my two cents on why the Dems lost to Shrubya:
The DEMOCRATIC LEADERSHIP COUNCIL. Until the last two months of the campaign, Kerry had these closet Republicans whispering in his ears. They are responsible for the Party leaving it's foundations and drifting to the right and becoming the bitches of Congress.
The Dems lost credibility when they didn't demand Bush come to them to officially declare war in Iraq.
Terry McAuliffe's losing streak since 1994. Do you keep an incompetent employee in a key position as a certifiable screw-up with a losing record for ten years?
Allowing the Swift Boat Liars to have longer than 15 minutes of fame.
I agree, we have our work cut out for us: finding Howard Dean Democrats and Independents like Jim Jeffords. One silver lining is that Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island cast a write in vote for Poppy in protest, and has strongly hinted that he's willing to leave the Party and join Jeffords as a Democratic-leaning Independent. His move may motivate other moderate Republicans getting a beat down by Tom DeLay to defect as well. Now that McCain won re-election, Bush is going to have to sweeten the pot or he might defect, too (drools at the thought)
To the trolls on this board: Bend over, because you're the first ones Bush will screw over. Those of us not drunk on the Kool-Aid will see it coming and duck and cover.
nice assessment NDTKA.
Terry McAuliffe has been DNC head since 2001; had nothing to do with what happened in 1994. That was Newt's doing, and he should get the credit.
DNC chair is a tough job, and anyone who takes it on should be praised, not trashed.
The Republicans probably rigged the machines in Florida and Ohio. However, we are not going to get the presidency back even if we prove it.
Things are gonna have to get a lot worse for these morons to wake up.
I wonder what would happen if half the people in this country curtailed consumer spending down to the bare (and I mean bare) minimum.
Although I left the Catholic church decades ago, I'm so pissed I feel like going back to church and ask the priest about "the rapture". I already know it is a heresy, but I want to know how come the church doesn't denounce it the way it has denounced all the other heresies. If 45 percent of people in this country are alleged to be Catholic, then they need to know that Bush, Falwell, Robertson and the rest of Bush's cabal are all heretics and they should not be followed in any way.
Sorry guys, just brainstorming to get shit stirred up.
right, but we can't figure out what needs to be done for '06 and beyond w/o a post-mortem on this election.
I'm concerned that democrats are going to willingly short-circuit a sober analysis of what went wrong and what should be fixed in the name of "moving forward."
w/o addressing the deficiencies in the campaign and the democratic party writ large, we won't be moving forward, we'll simply be moving in circles.
As a member of the Maine Democratic State Committee, I can tell you that it DOES make a difference when you have truly committed people working day and night all over a state for two years, no matter whether their individual preferences are reflected in the national choice for candidate.
If the people on this blog, who are smart tech savvy, would give a couple of hours a week to the local party structure, it would make a huge difference, especially in the hinterlands. For all of the DNC's efforts, there is still a lot of room left for improvement, and it shouldn't all get done in the six months prior to the election. We get one every two years so it isn't a surprise or anything.
We can't lay down and sulk over this. They won a battle, not the war.
Spend less time writing here and more time writing to the NYT, WP, and the networks. Pick up the phone and call em when they are inaccurate, off-track or not covering a story - which is pretty much any given moment of the day. That's how the GOP gets their echo going. It ain't physics. You will be less frustrated if you take action.
Assess, adapt, advance.
WE NEED YOU. Help!
MSG in Maine
As a member of the Maine Democratic State Committee, I can tell you that it DOES make a difference when you have truly committed people working day and night all over a state for two years, no matter whether their individual preferences are reflected in the national choice for candidate.
If the people on this blog, who are smart tech savvy, would give a couple of hours a week to the local party structure, it would make a huge difference, especially in the hinterlands. For all of the DNC's efforts, there is still a lot of room left for improvement, and it shouldn't all get done in the six months prior to the election. We get one every two years so it isn't a surprise or anything.
We can't lay down and sulk over this. They won a battle, not the war.
Spend less time writing here and more time writing to the NYT, WP, and the networks. Pick up the phone and call em when they are inaccurate, off-track or not covering a story - which is pretty much any given moment of the day. That's how the GOP gets their echo going. It ain't physics. You will be less frustrated if you take action.
Assess, adapt, advance.
WE NEED YOU. Help!
MSG in Maine
i am grateful to atrios for this forum. the opportunity to post the odd insomniac jeremiad, or to read the thoughts, strategies, rants and song snippets of other cybersouls has been most appreciated.
the american taliban can be found in churches. i don't want to wheedle them. there is no invisible sky buddy that favors those born in the middle of the north american land mass. the new barricades are between belief and reason. fuck religion and the twaddle-brained simps that peddle it.
Hey I live in Salt Lake City and I am a yellow dog democrat. There are a lot of Democrats in the city. Don't send Osama to kill us.
la: I'm not, obviously. But why are you--or more to the point, the Bush supporters you live among--entitled to be safer than me and mine? Especially after making us even more unsafe by voting for this SOB?
* * *
BTW--did you know that after NYC, Texas is the abortion capital of the universe?
Some of you may have the energy, but I need at least a few days, maybe a few weeks, to lie down and cry.
Those of us who saw it coming and said so were called trolls. Were we, really?
Atrios, thanks for being there, for doing what you do, for allowing us a forum.
A few low days, then we'll bounce back into fighting form. Meantime, I have a feeling a lot of Edwards' friends are going to be studying Diebold schematics, getting prepared. Won't it be fun, next big election, when the black hats try a little number crunching and get caught at it? Also, bush has lots of bulldogs nipping at his heels. I can't believe something doesn't hold water and bite him in the butt. Impeachment or a Nixonian leavetaking would be just what the angry half of this country needs.
That was just an acorn, my chickens, just an acorn.
Trouble is, even if Bush could be impeached (and a Republican Congress is not going to let that happen), then Cheney would be president. And then, if Cheney were impeached, Dennis Hastert would be president. Remember him? He's the one who accused George Soros of being a drug trafficker.
And as a non-fundamentalist Christian who is devout and goes to church every Sunday, I'd like you to lay off the blanket condemnations of all Christians. I'm sad enough without getting the message that there's no place for me in the progressive movement.
We see it differently.
We see irreconcilable differences.
It is time for divorce.
It it time for a little Merger and Acquisition activity.
Blue states + Canada = United States of Canada
Leaving the Red State Taliban choking on bullets and Bibles.
I think it's time for some hot man-on-dog action.
National unity? That's just what Gore called for in his concession speech. Look where that got us and the country. Our job is not to follow and let the Republicans lead, as if we were dancing. Our job is to FIGHT!
This morning, I was ready to drive to Canada and never come back.
This evening, I am disappointed, concerned, angry, but still in the United States.
No matter the wingnuts spin it, this was not a mandate. It looks like 48% of the voters went for Kerry, and that's not about being a Northeasterner or a liberal or a farmer or a worker or a soldier or an artist. It's about many millions of people looking at the candidates and seeing that Kerry was the better choice.
That matters. And that counts. I'm just about ready to fight again. This is not the end of history.
White House: Debt Ceiling Must Be Raised
Republicans have proposed that the debt ceiling be raised by $690 billion to $8.074 trillion, an amount that would get the government through next September, when the 2005 budget year ends.
The need to raise the debt ceiling reflects the record budget deficits of the past two years. The deficit for the 2004 budget year, which ended Sept. 30, was an all-time high of $413 billion, surpassing the old mark, in dollar terms, of $377 billion in 2003.
---nuff said
"Irreconcilable differences"
I agree.
Let the western blue states join British Columbia and become Cascadia. Let the Bush cult have Florida, Mississippi etc.
Let the Democrats have the 'brain' of the country, New England.
Etc.
I don't believe in the post-mortem either. I blame only the misguided people who voted for Bush and the Bushies for deceiving them. But that was yesterday. Onward to new tomorrows to fight the Bush-barely-won presidency with more fervour than the Bush-stolen presidency.
"I had rather be a free citizen of the small republic of Massachusetts, than an oppressed subject of the great American empire."
Boston Gazette and Country Journal, November 26, 1787
Um, first things first is to make sure there will be valid elections and that the party out of power retains a voice.
We'll need the right Senate leader, for one.
How bout the first order of business --assuming it's still possible -- is to insure a paper trail and audits for elections based on standards recently established by the bipartison Carter comission.
Got to get to the next round. Stay on our feet.
'Cause they could be changing all the rules. And you start by changing rules.
And you got at the outside MAYBE two Pugs in Maine, one Pug in Rhode Island, one cretinous Pug in PA, one Pug in SC, one Pug in Nebraska, one Pug in Arizona and one Pug in Ohio who MIGHT be opposed to the below measure.
That means the Administration gets four of the eight above (many of which are soft in their "good government Pug" roles) -- and Admin plays tough if you haven't noticed -- and its game, set, match, tournament, tour, incorporation status.
May 15, 2003, 10:10 a.m.
Filibuster Preservation
Does the Senate filibuster need reform?
By John C. Eastman
Last week, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist introduced a resolution to change Senate Rule XXII, that provides for unlimited debate in the Senate unless a supermajority of 60 senators votes to invoke cloture and cut off debate. Elaborating on the arguments put forward by several constitutional-law professors (myself included) at a recent hearing before the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution — arguing that the use of the filibuster to create a supermajority requirement for judicial confirmations was unconstitutional — Sen. Frist has proposed a sliding scale for cloture votes, with each successive cloture vote requiring fewer votes to succeed until, at the fifth vote, a simply majority of senators present and voting would prevail.
Sen. Frist's plan, based on similar proposals offered by Georgia Democrat Zell Miller earlier this year (Sen. Miller has cosponsored Sen. Frist's proposal) and by Democrats Joe Lieberman and Tom Harkin in 1995, carefully reconciles two competing norms — the Senate's long-standing tradition of full deliberation on important matters, and the constitutional requirement of majority rule. Indeed, Sen. Frist's proposal would effectively return to rules that prevailed in the Senate from its establishment in 1789 until 1806, by which a simply majority could end debate on a motion for the previous question and under which no one was "to speak impertinently or beside the question, superfluously or tediously." Nor is this the first time that the Senate rules have been changed to address an abusive use of the filibuster. Between 1841, when the filibuster was first utilized by Sen. John C. Calhoun to protect slaveholding interests, and 1916, when Sen. Robert LaFollette used it to block legislation that would have authorized merchant ships to arm themselves against unlawful attacks by German U-boats before the United States entered World War
(continued from above)
entered World War I, unanimous consent was required to end a filibuster. During that time, there were nearly a dozen proposals to restore the "motion for the previous question" rule or a cloture rule, but Sen. LaFollette's filibuster was the last straw: In 1917, the Senate adopted the first cloture rule, providing that debate could be ended by a vote of 2/3 of the senators present and voting.
When that rule began to be abused by the use of a filibuster to block procedural motions not subject to the 2/3 cloture vote (a practice that rendered the cloture option meaningless), the Senate amended its cloture rule in 1949 to extend to procedural motions, but in a compromise increased the vote required to 2/3 of the full Senate rather than 2/3 of the senators present and voting. During the 1950s, there were several attempts to reduce the number necessary to invoke cloture from 2/3 to a simply majority, and several others to provide a two-tiered cloture rule, whereby a 2/3 vote was required initially but a simply majority vote would suffice after a reasonable period for debate, between 12 and 15 days. Additional amendments were proposed during the 1960s until, in 1975, the cloture rule was amended to allow cloture by a vote of 3/5 of the Senate (today's 60-vote requirement). Finally, in 1995, Sen. Harkin proposed to establish a declining vote requirement for cloture, so that by the 4th cloture vote, a simple majority of the Senate would suffice to end debate and allow the Senate to proceed to a vote on the merits of the matter at hand.
In short, ever since the Senate in 1806 abolished the majority vote mechanism to end debate, its history has been punctuated by abuse of what amounted to a minority veto, and successive efforts in response to bolster the ability of the majority ultimately to prevail. Sen. Frist's proposal last week, like Sen. Harkin's 1995 proposal, would complete that task.
One monumental hurdle stands in the way of this sensible reform, however; Senate Rule XXII currently provides that the filibuster rule can only be changed by a 2/3 vote, a provision that was first enacted back when Dwight Eisenhower was president and southern Democrats were using the filibuster to block civil-rights legislation. As constitutional-law scholars across the ideological spectrum have noted, that supermajority requirement is patently unconstitutional, for it allows a prior Senate to impose its will on the current Senate and deprive the people of their ability to effect change through the majoritarian political process. Liberal U.S.C. Law Professor Erwin Chemerinsky has written, for example, that "entrenchment of the filibuster violates a fundamental constitutional principle: One legislature cannot bind subsequent legislatures." Lloyd Cutler, former counsel to Presidents Carter and Clinton, has contended that the "requirements of 60 votes to cut off debate and a two-thirds vote to amend the rules are both unconstitu
unconstitutional." Conservative law professors John McGinnis and Michael Rappaport have contended that "the Constitution prohibits legislative entrenchment" such as that effected by Rule XXII. At last Tuesday's hearing, Catholic Law School Dean Doug Kmiec, Northwestern Law School Professor Steven Calabresi, and constitutional scholar Bruce Fein all joined with me in affirming that view.
Thus, any attempt to allow 1/3 of the Senate to veto Sen. Frist's proposed rules change would be unconstitutional. If the Senate does not itself so rule, any member of the Senate whose vote is diluted as a result, or any pending nominee who has already received the support of a majority of the Senate but whose confirmation vote has been blocked by an abusive use of the filibuster, would have standing to challenge the rule in court. Sen. Frist's sensible reform should be approved before it gets to that, so that the majority can ultimately prevail when the time for reasonable debate has expired. As Sen. John Cornyn, quoting former Sen. Henry Cabot Lodge, noted at the outset of last Tuesday's hearing, "To vote without debating is perilous, but to debate and never vote is imbecile."
— John C. Eastman is professor of law at Chapman University School of Law and director of the Claremont Institute Center for Constitutional Jurisprudence.
it is time to get moving, while the emotion is still there. don't moan and cry too long -- take that energy to organize. look up wellstone action, figure out what you and your friends and colleagues can do to organize.
in minnesota, my next goal is to start now with fundraising for my remaining democratic senator, mark dayton. the repug machine promised tim pawlenty, now our governor, a senate seat if he behaved like a good repug and didn't compete with turncoat/flip-flop norm coleman for the seat against paul wellstone. you all probably know what happened...
read. look at what the right has done, and how to counter. semantics (clear skies, partial-birth abortion) affects how we think about things. the person who said we should be writing to papers is correct. write, and act. start now, set a goal for inauguration with those who worked hardest to keep up the action. don't let your congresspeople get away with anything, if you can. and be aware that we will truly have to rage against a huge, militant, tightly disciplined right-wing machine.
don't believe a word of conciliation you hear from the right. if you live in Rhode Island, support your moderate republican senator. we're fighting fascism...
For some future strategizing check out the Rockridge Institute (rockridgeinstitute.org), a progressive think tank, and read George Lakos. I'm a PC and I'm going to start walking my precinct this week-end to reconnnect and ask Dems what they thought happened and what they think needs to change for Dems to win. I'm launching a streaming audio site for Southwest specific politics (where I live). I'm going to support local advertisers on the Air America station. I'm going to keep doing for the next four years what I did for the last one, only pacing myself. I saw what happened when liberals caved after Reagan's 1980's elections - and it paved the way for what we have now. Don't Give Up. Don't Give In. Don't Give Out. Boycott, leaflet, agitate, protest and Never, Never, Never buy that Can't We All Just Get Along horseshit. The White House is the current Axis of Evil and yesterday was the 9/11 attack on liberals in this country. Take No Prisoners.
Let's not forget this posting from last nite:
Troubles in Florida
From CNN:
Gary Tuchman: Now, there are some people concerned about these machines, that they don't give you receipts. Only in Nevada you get a receipt but you don't get to keep it but you see your vote on a receipt paper, here you don't.
Now, with us right now is a woman by the name of Suzanne Goldstein who voted the other day during the early voting process with one of the touchscreen machines, and you tell me you wanted to vote for John Kerry. Tell me what happened."
Suzanne Goldstein: "That's correct. When I went in on wed supervisor elections; I checked John Kerry, Betty castor and the Democratic slate. When i came to the last page which was the review screen, I was horrified when I saw that every choice I made had come up incorrect and just the opposite.
Gary Tuchman: So, you're saying that you voted for Kerry for President, but on the view screen, which is that last place you look before you tabulate your vote, it said George W. Bush?
Suzanne Goldstein: It did, it did.
Gary Tuchman: What did you do?
Suzanne Goldstein: So, what I did was, my husband nearby and we called poll workers, clerks. They came over and at that point they wanted to try to review. And I didn't want them to touch it.
They first were telling me that I probably made a mistake, maybe I didn't know what I was doing.... so finally, I asked for an attorney from outside. So someone did come in, and at that point we went back, and at that point, sure enough, I had voted correctly.
Gary Tuchman: What happened to the machine?
Suzanne Goldstein: Umm, they didn't know. They really didn't know what --
Gary Tuchman: -- did you get to vote?
Susan Goldstein: I did get to vote but I stopped the voting process on that machine, requested for it to be taken away and I voted on the next machine.
Gary Tuchman: Susan, thanks for joining us. We should tell you that operatives at elections office at Talllahassee that thera are some problems ocassionally but there are millions of votes on these machines and they believe these machines are performing very reliably. Kyra, back to you.
What is going on with this machine? All of the other machines that didn't work?
These machines must be confronted. I don't believe that Bush won, all the insults hurled at the gullible center who "voted" for Bush is part of the Rove strategy to instill deep distrust and denial in the heart of the Left.
Those exit polls had us winning handily. Faulty exit poles?? How hard is it to ask people how they just voted? Don't believe it. It was the machines that did this.
I personally will never believe another election until those machines are neutralized.
I say AGENDA ITEM #1 is a vast effort to force congress to tackle this issue for the bi-partisen good of the republic. Write to every politician your state has in Washington, your secretaries of state, and vari
rethug moral values = bigot, racist, haters.
Clinton left the blueprint, if only, if only we would follow it. Sure, the Republicans slimed him but that was to make his legacy too radioactive for us to touch. Fuck all that, embrace the lable "Clinton Democrat" - and get a candidate who's one of the folksy, brainy types who can connect with the rural folks.
Clinton got nine red states, and some of them aren't all that red. We only need TWO.
did you guys catch the cover-up story that they're trying to pawn as to "the problem" with the exit polls?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp...0-
2004Nov3.html
I agree, first order of business is organizing to clean up the electoral system, state by state.
verifiable, paper trails, security, the works.
Second agenda item - Air America needs to up its game, and we need to get on cable TV. Come on, Al, buy that network already!
Is there any reason to believe this administrations, these Republicans, will give one goddamn inch is we reasonably try to accomodate on any issue for the next four years? We have to play the game like they do; if we don't we'll lose, over and over and over. So we do it this way: some of us will play the role they're used to: "Hey, let's work together, non-partisan, okay? Let's shake hands on it, Mr. DeLay." The rest of us will simply slip behind their lines, mine their harbors, blow up their railroad tracks, then bicycle down the road in the morning with French bread in the basket until we reach the next target zone. Over and over and over.
third agenda item:
Oppose, obstruct, block and otherwise harry the Republicans on every goddamned initative from Supreme Court appointments to town dogcatcher.
We need to be in our city halls, sitting in our congressmen's offices, getting our faces in TV cameras, running town meetings and otherwise being royal pains in the asses.
enron convictions lurking under the radar:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp...4-
2004Nov3.html
remember:
bipartisanship is date rape.
learn it, live it.
another OT --
renewed US global irresponsibility:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp...1-
2004Nov3.html
I say AGENDA ITEM #1 is a vast effort to force congress to tackle this issue for the bi-partisen good of the republic.
They won't.
The Republicans control congress, and it's in their interest to have unreliable, hackable machines.
I agree totally with everything in this entry, but one thing really sticks out:
> People tend to take a loss like this as "proof" that their personal pet peeve
My father ranting about gay marriage is a perfect example of this. Of course, he also stated before the Sox-Yankees series that the Sox had a 'forty percent' chance of victory, then after the third game stated that his statistics had been proven correct.... whoops, this became a rant about a family member.
Media spin's driving me crazy. And people need to realize--even with Kerry's speech as something of an influence--that it's not over. My mother said that she felt "discouraged" after voting and then Bush winning anyway. (Of course, we live in Mass., so obviously it wasn't that her individual vote made much of a dent.... hmm.)
....Yeah.
We are not going to win the next election, maybe never win any election, until we go to the attack. Making nice gets you to, roughly, 47 percent. We'll only get the other four-plus, the margin we need to win, if we take the offensive.
I don't have a manifesto drawn up yet, but I'm working on it. If you have any suggestions -- or warnings -- I'd sure like to hear them.
How do we attack the Bush administration? And please, I'm talking about politics here, not about SDS crazies from the Sixties. Nothing violent, nothing illegal (though the neocons have stretched the boundaries of legality pretty far.) What can we do to keep the Bushies on the defensive, so busy putting out PR fires that they haven't time to focus on their bizarre agenda? How can we make the middling classes see what sleazy, self-centered yahoos the Bushies really are?
here's steve bell's take on the outcome of the 2004 Diebold Elections Result
Hi! Republican troll here.
You people are funny. Take a week off, relax.
Do better in 2006, ok?
Maybe not, even better.
Bye bye!
Hi. Republican troll here.
Clinton disgraced the office. I know, I know, you smart, educated people that know better don't think he did, but all of us stupid, rednecks do.
And we voted against his "legacy" Al Bore.
And we didn't like the traitor Kerry, either, so we voted against him.
More of us stupid people than you smart, angry, know-it-alls.
We win.
You lose.
Isn't America great??
Have a nice day!
Hi. Republican troll here.
Remember what Yoda said about anger. All you smart, angry, educated democrats/sci-fi nerds can get off your computers, zip up your pants and go outside now.
You can move to France, too.
Taataaaa!
Let's face it: we got Diebolded! Yes, you heard this right--Bush, with the help of e-voting without a paper audit trail--black box voting, stole this election from Kerry, and we can't do a thing about it because we can't prove without looking at the secret code protected by copyright law that the integrity of our so-called democracy has been tampered with by rogue software.
It doesn't matter what we do; we can mobilize voters, get'em mad as hell, turn out the vote in record numbers, you name it. The vote will still go to the Republicans, and the right-wing radicals at that, until and unless we put pressure on every single lawmaker to outlaw the vapor ballots and replace them with paper ballots. Optical scan is OK because it leaves a paper trail; but touch screen and other fraud-o-matic vote machines must be relegated to the same museum the Vote-O-Matic hanging chad are located.
Let's face it: we got Diebolded! Yes, you heard this right--Bush, with the help of e-voting without a paper audit trail--black box voting, stole this election from Kerry, and we can't do a thing about it because we can't prove without looking at the secret code protected by copyright law that the integrity of our so-called democracy has been tampered with by rogue software.
It doesn't matter what we do; we can mobilize voters, get'em mad as hell, turn out the vote in record numbers, you name it. The vote will still go to the Republicans, and the right-wing radicals at that, until and unless we put pressure on every single lawmaker to outlaw the vapor ballots and replace them with paper ballots. Optical scan is OK because it leaves a paper trail; but touch screen and other fraud-o-matic vote machines must be relegated to the same museum the Vote-O-Matic hanging chad are located.
Hi Sue B.
You sound like a raving lunatic. And an idiot.
I get you're good in the sack, most crazy chicks are.
See ya!
Fuck John Kerry. If he pussed out this easily here- he never would have stood a chance in D.C. with the fight he would have had to face.
Hi there, poster of profanity laced message.
Yes, John Kerry is a loser. He's also a liar and a traitor.
He's probably a fag, too.
I'm glad he lost. I'm glad that you're glad, too.
Hillary in 2008!!
Sleep tight!
Well, how can we learn from our mistakes this time around if we don't conduct some sort of post mortem?
yes, too funny, you win
and here are your prizes:
* you get two great american jobs! - flippin' burgers and cleanin' johns. but you didn't want to be an auto worker anyway, right? that's a pussy-ass gay job for foreigners like the chinese or the french.
* you get a tax cut that'll buy you a couple new tatoos. 'course bush and friends get one that'll buy 'em a couple new houses.
* you get drafted and get your stupid redneck ass sent off to fight for whatever oil cheney doesn't own yet
enjoy the next four years
no more mr. nice liberal.
-J.T.
Warlord of Silver Spring
'What matters isn't what was done wrong, but what needs to be done right for the '06 elections.'
Atrios, you fool, that's what everybody said in '02 about '04. Let's face it, the Democratic party will never change its spots. What we seem to have on our hands is a party that DOESN'T REALLY WANT TO WIN. If they did, they would have refused to participate in the elections until every voting machine left a paper trail. Nothing better can be expected from the Dems in 2006 or 2008. It's over. The Republican dictatorship is here.
Jimmy James,
It isn't over. It has only just begun. To quote Josh Marshall, "Elections are not deterministic things..." to paraphrase.
Today, you start with a fresh book and a new phone, the game begins anew.
There is no time for fair weather friends, or out here on the net blogs, freepers spreading defeatism on "liberal" sites.
It just doesn't matter today that 51% of the nation screamed "Give us Barabbas!" Bush's deadly lies, his irresponsible policies, the fiscal insanity and the attacks on minoroties are still here and demand we step up.
Right now it's like a Bob Dylan song to some folks...the way Bush's crew is acting, and we remain in a depressed funk....
"They all play on the penny whistle, you can hear them blow....As Lady Night looks out tonight from Desolation Row."
So Mr. James, you can get with the program, or get out....the choice is yours. But with each soldier killed in Iraq, with a possible draft coming, and a really deadly series of wars possible with Syria and Iran, plus North Korea, each new blunder brings another person to us to take your place. That's the way it works in either party.
It's ALL Bush's show now. And God help Bush if another bad attack on America happens!
Time to go back to work....coming?
OK we start again.... I think our motto should be...
"(I) We have only begun to fight!"
I don't think we have a choice in this.
My List?
1) In order to discourage the dirty-tricks that effected both democrats and republicans from being repeated next election, the following is absolutely vital....ALL dirty tricks that were reported this election MUST be investigated and prosecuted if possible. If this is not done, it is inevitable that the same exact operations will be conducted next election. The dirty tricks that were ignored after last election were repeated in this one...that can't be allowed to happen again.
2) The use of new voting machines this election necessitate the following...all precincts that utilized a voting machine with no paper trail should conduct an Audit of the recorded vote, comparing the results with equivalent precincts using paper-trails or manual voting. All voting machines should be secured for possible future inspection for some period after the vote to ensure that no post-election changes can be made to the machine in order to conceal possible evidence of tampering.
3) All efforts should continue to be made to ensure that ALL valid votes are counted. Just because Sen. Kerry has conceeded does NOT mean it is any less vital that we have an accurate count of all valid votes. Any attempt to invalidate provisional or absentee votes should STILL be fought.
4) Efforts to ensure that ALL voting methods generate a separate, verifiable method of recording the vote should continue. The target should be, ALL votes must be verifiable by next election!
Accurate analysis of "what went wrong" is essential to deteriming "what needs to be done right" in the future. Unfortunately, we lefties do a terrible job with this kind of analysis. For all our insistence that we're reality-based we engage is so much wishful thinking. We can't improve if we don't carefully review our last efforts.
Sen Kerry had to see this coming but in my estimation, did not know how to deal with it. Both men would be president today if they had confronted it head on.
When Bush suffered a richly deserved defeat at the hands of John McCain in New Hampshire, he went to his racist Roman Catholic hating base at Bob Jones University and kissed their ring. In return they elected him. Lets us not mince words, BJU is racist and visciously anti Catholic, these are George Bush's people. His peeps. They're reprehensible and they deserve scorn and our disdain.
If John McCain had said to himself. I cannot defeat them here in the cradle of their immoral and corrupt racist culture, but I can defeat them in Michigan and New York and California and the border states like Tennessee and Arkansas, Nevada and New Mexico. He should've given up on the old confederate states and said to them directly.
"Take down the Conderate flag now."
If he had done that I believe he would've defeated Bush and gone on to defeat Al Gore.
In the same way, Sen Kerry could've defeated George Bush in 2004 when he was confronted by the filthy Swift Boat Veteran smearing lies in August. In August, when Bush 41 struck and destoryed the campaign of Dukakis with Willie Horton (oh excuse me, a shadowy group of rich Texans who were friends of the Bush family but in no way were connected to the compaign) and when they struck at John Kerry, what could Kerry do when he had little money to fight. He had to conserve his dollars for post Labor Day so what to do? You get yourself a ritual cleansing and you go on the Bill O'Reilly show and you face the lying bastards down. You go on Rush Limbaugh and you tell the fatuous blowhard the switees are wrong and they're being led by a base sychophant and here is why. You go into the belly of the beast. It's fraught with peril but it's free and at least you're fighting.
Southern values? Please, the state that gave us 50 years of Strom Thrumond should take a good look in the mirror. They'll find its pretty ugly. Strom Thurmond, Harry Truman refused to shake his hand. What an excellent judge of character we had in President Truman.
You know what I find endearing about the trollsters? They're so gracious and magnanimous in the hour of victory.
Which is why when conservatives start to lose big-time -- which will be sooner rather than later -- conservatism will be as dead as the Whig Party. Not so much because of conservatism itself, but because conservatives as a rule are shmucks.
To solve a problem, one must first define it-accurately. The fact is, our side is the one stuck with the facts, for better or worse. This means we're fighting uphill. A decisive bloc of Americans have been shaped by a generation of politics from both sides who've taught them to believe whatever lie offers them the easy way out, citizenship without responsibility. We are never going to come up with better whoppers in that line than the GOP, so we shouldn't try.
2. Every previous close election of the last 100 years was followed by a landslide 1916-1920, 1960-1964, '68-'72, and '76-'80.
2000 and 2004 were almost identical. One or two percent change in popular vote, 2 or perhaps 3 states switching from red to blue or vice versa.
So our problems haven't changed too much, merely increased. How can we do a more effective job of dragging our voters to the polls in '06 and '08? And how can we peel 5-10 percent off Bush's 51 percent coalition. These are hard but doable chores. It's difficult to lead a majority whose core identity is being a persecuted minority.
Here's the message we must take to our party. How many times must you guys get hit with the same two by four before you wake up? Denying yourself is wrong-and bad politics. Expediency on large issues is wrong, and even worse politics. Democrats lost the 2002 election by cynically waving through the Iraq war resolution. Our base was justly furious and demoralized.
We lost the 2004 election thanks to the same manuver. John Kerry ran as good a campaign as he could, but he never beat the flip-flop thing because he did indeed vote to let Bush start the Iraq catastrophe.
The candidate in 2008 had better say "you bet and here's why" when Tom Brokaw asks "are you a liberal." People don't like trimmers. They liked Clinton because he was TRULY ambivalent on issues, just as they were and are.
Oh, and as long as we're changing definitions of words, while we take back liberal, we need a new term for the Christian right. There are many devout, decent, truly Christian souls in that group. They're not the ones who run for office as Republicans. Those guys are haters bamboozling the godly.
Don't call people like Bush, Coburn, or DeMint fundamentalists. May I suggest "heretics"?
Sorry for the length.
In total agreement. I'm thinking that unless the GOP holds back a little, moderate Democrats in both houses of Congress could possibly change their party affiliation.
Which would render the GOP victory, less so.
Rumor has it that Lincoln Chafee (R), R.I. is already thinking of going over to the Democrats.
This won't stop the rightist nutters from trying to put forward their agenda, but it might moderate them somewhat.
Don't give up, guys.
I can't vote, being British, but I'll sure as hell be supporting the Democrats in 2006 - and campaigning in 2008. Together, the world can beat this bunch of crooks!
Don't let Bush off the hook for one second - remember what they did to Clinton, and do it back to them, tenfold.
It's time for the gloves to come off.
Don't give up, guys.
I can't vote, being British, but I'll sure as hell be supporting the Democrats in 2006 - and campaigning in 2008. Together, the world can beat this bunch of crooks!
Don't let Bush off the hook for one second - remember what they did to Clinton, and do it back to them, tenfold.
It's time for the gloves to come off.
Right, yeah, I got it...
now the, all you recovering Democrats, for the next '06 election cycle, open your Bibles to page 375, Pslam number....
I think post-mortems are important if they're used to help fight the next fight. There were many things learned from this past race that we can learn from without letting ourselves getting bogged down in "what ifs?"
One good example is, of course, the whole idea of "moral values." Why did Kerry say he was the candidate of "conservative values?" Why couldn't he be the candidate of "progressive moral values?" Kerry just lent credence to this idea that conservatives have a monopoly on morality and values and that to have either of them you have to be conservative. Time for progressives to come up with their own list of moral values and stick with them. Consider this one lesson learned.
"What matters isn't what was done wrong, but what needs to be done right for the '06 elections"
That's exactly what a post-mortem should tell us. If you don't want a post-mortem, how ya gonna learn?
I agree some analysis can help, but I totally agree that I can't bear to hear people cutting down Kerry as a candidate or the campaign, especially when it felt as if the biggest problem was that the Republicans seemed to get away with saying up is down, particularly lying about Kerry. Any postmortem may be--how do you counter so many lies? It's somehow an education issue; an information and access to information issue. I think Friedman said it's the difference between people who read newspapers and those who watch Fox 'news'.
I also share the same feelings as so many of you--despair, intense fear of the future, and a deep fury.
I appreciate reading the many thoughtful comments.
I agree that John Kerry is a thoughtful, moral man with a great deal of courage- just look at his role models-(his mother and father). Conversely, look at Bush and his family- boosters of anything that is good for business. All served in the government essentially to enrich themselves and friends.
Now tho solving the puzzle of taking back the government to serve the people and not the defense, oil, pharmaceutical industry,and others who have profited the most the past 4 years.
First, neutralizing Karl Rove, by exposing his various schemes and scams, and hypocracy, and then revitalizing an antiwar movement similar to what we swa in the 1960 and 70s.
Just some ideas to bat around.
Onward? As long as electronic vote tabulation is used to decide elections, you can be sure that Republicans will win, no matter how people vote.
I assume since these states are run by Republicans they will be in no mood to change their never ending ability to shape the outcome of elections.
Democracy is dead. The U.S. is officially a fascist state run by one party who will stack the legislatures, courts and regulatory bodies with political hacks. There is no wisdom with these dopes, the country is doomed.
I agree with Brisa.
It's not getting out the vote bettter. Or organizing better. Everything else is moot until we get the electronic voting machines out of the election. And investigate what happened this election.
Otherwise, we're sure to lose more seats in the 2006 elections. And we can look forward to "electing" Arnold or Rudy in 2008.
These folks stole this election. Ten to forty million votes cast into a black hole with no paper trail. And that's not including all the other votes that were not counted for other egregious reasons, for a multitude of voter suppression, etc. Exit polling was never so off as it was in this election. Yet all the pundits just said, "Oh well, those numbers must have been off." Then right before Bush's surge in Florida and Ohio and the tv media gets Rove's message that exit poll numbers don't seem to match up with his, NO ONE, not one of those shills asked the simple question of Rove's minions (Melman, etc.), "Oh, really. Well, what is he basing HIS numbers on?" This stinks to high heaven.
You watch John Kerry's concession speech and you know in your hearts (and minds) that he was robbed. That he should be the president-elect right now. Kerry knows it. Edwards knows it. But, with this mainstream media, there's nothing they could do at the moment; we all know they would've been instantly crucified, their party brutalized. There were already polls on the major news networks and cable stations about whether or not Kerry should concede! People like Rudy Guiliani sat in with the deplorable Today Show crew for an hour or so, repeating endless barely veiled threats of what would happen to Kerry and the Dem Party if instant concession was not forthcoming.
Bottom line: We must find a way to force the mainstream media to start doing their jobs, to force the fishiness of these machines beyond the Internet and a smattering of op-ed pages and into the national dialogue. This is much, much worse than anything Nixon did to be impeached and resign in disgrace. Bush and his administration was already a disaster for this country and the rest of the world. This is the final straw. If we do not fix this, uncover this, than, yes, our democracy is officially dead. Game over.
We must fight this fight! I implore you all to get this message out, do a Google search on these electronic voting machines to see the direct links of all four of their separate owners to the Bush administration. Also, read articles on this by Greg Palast and Bev Harris. And spread the word, tell your friends, your family, even if they're not particularly political. Don't allow them to turn away from this reality, or it will be too late when they finally see the light. Look to history and you know this is true.
It's in our hands. Don't be depressed. Be vigilant.
I'm with you. Too mnay things went right with this election, but we need to set our sights on correcting the problems, not looking for someone to blame. I hate scapegoating -- it's counterproductive.
I have actually had to deal with people who want to look at us as "victims," because we got fewer votes in an election.
Time to pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off and keep working toward a progressive future. Our web site is undergoing some changes along those lines. Keep watching...
I'm with Jack. For a very long time I've been watching Democrats roll over in the name of "moving forward" and "uniting this country." Do you think the Republicans would do the same? No, they wouldn't, and they never do. They fight like wildcats to get and maintain power. They use every dirty trick you could possibly imagine--posting flyers of McCain with his adopted African American child and calling this child a bastard, lying about everything all of the time so that they and their friends can get richer. I believe the election was rigged, not just because there is evidence of that, but because I have more faith in the American people than that. Fight back and demand the truth because we will be the only ones who do. The people of this country and of the world are counting on you, on us, to reveal the truth and fight for them. Please do not disappoint them.
Yeah, but...what if Greg Palast is right? He's been right before, you know.
"I know you don't want to hear it. You can't face one more hung chad. But I don't have a choice. As a journalist examining that messy sausage called American democracy, it's my job to tell you who got the most votes in the deciding states. Tuesday, in Ohio and New Mexico, it was John Kerry."
http://www.tompaine.com/articles...s/
kerry_won.php
I keep seeing posts from well-meaning Progressives urging us all to try and tilt the Ohio results back to Kerry. Nice to see passion from the Left. Bless you all. I hope you all can remain this motivated for the next four years.
Kerry was right to concede. Yes, we could fight like hell and drag it out and maybe, maybe eke out a win in Ohio. But, do you really think the neo-cons don’t have enough dirty tricks to make sure that won’t happen?
By all means, tell the truth about the vote fraud we all know happened. But even more importantly: TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT EVERY FRAUD THESE PEOPLE HAVE PERPETRATED ON THE WORLD!!! This is NOT about vote fraud, that is just the tip of the iceberg, it is a symptom of the larger fraud.
Moving on is not about rolling over, it is about fighting smarter and fighting for the big picture. You are not wrong for wanting to fight this battle for a recount in Ohio. I agree it should be done. But please understand that this is not the be-all and end-all of our struggle. I remember that after we lost the Florida recount battle in 2000, so many Progressives just gave up in frustration and it wasn't until 2004 they woke up and get active again, too late to affect the change we needed.
What I am saying is this: Finding another 137,000 votes in Ohio doesn't solve Iraq, doesn't solve economic injustice, doesn't restore the rights they have taken away from us. The Republicans would still control Congress and 59 Million people would still have voted for Bush. We have a HELL of a lot more to do than contest votes. Our struggle is not over an election, it is over the fate of our world.
Do NOT get distracted by a hopeless battle to alter the result of this election. Our enemy and our struggle is far far greater. We must be too.
http://wfr-reality.blogspot.com/
It wasn't just Ohio. Florida was stolen from us as well. I'm not going along with the trolls who just want to give up, and start raising money and picking candidates for the next rigged election. It's time to fight, or let Diebold decide every election from now until doomsday. Bev Harris needs our help to expose this fraudulent election. Go to:
BlackBoxVoting.org
Hi!
My condolences guys I'm really glad
I don't live in the US. I'm from Hungary (you know the "New Europe" as "Rumsfeld The Incompetent" would call it with all his available arrogance) where most people opposed that insane war in Iraq but the government caved in to Bush. No more. We're gonna leave maybe as early as December.
Bush is an idiot and monumental liar and noone can pick him apart more eloquently than Al Gore.
You lost a lot with that guy in 2000
possibly even those two towers in New York. Why on earth does Bush think that he is uniquely qualified to counter terrorist attacks when in fact it was the Clinton administration which after 1993 Feb 26 kept your land free from foreign terrorism? Can you imagine a President Gore to go to vacation after reading that Aug 6 memo and not asking a single follow-up question from the FBI what those ungoing investigations were all about? No way. He would have shaken every tree in the federal government
to find out what was coming. But what did Bush do? He didn't have a clue. He knew nothing about transnational terrorism and modern counter-terrorism. He didn't read a single book about the subject. He didn't consult with outside experts. (He did that with stem-cell research in Aug,2001 just to make sure that people knew he was intellectually enganged. Jesus!) He didn't read the Hart-Rudman report, he didn't read the Gore report on vaiation seuirty he didn't read the 1999 CIA report that mentioned the very scenario that happened on 9/11, he did not follow the US Cole investigation he didn't review earlier intel memos on al Qaeda while the system was blinking red. What an asshole!
This I think should have been emphasized during the campaign.
Anyway, keep up the good fight and remember the right-wing lost every single culture war they declared in history even if they won battles. Don't let America become a Christian Saudi Arabia. Down with the fundamentalist idiots everywhere!
Hi!
My condolences guys I'm really glad
I don't live in the US. I'm from Hungary (you know the "New Europe" as "Rumsfeld The Incompetent" would call it with all his available arrogance) where most people opposed that insane war in Iraq but the government caved in to Bush. No more. We're gonna leave maybe as early as December.
Bush is an idiot and monumental liar and noone can pick him apart more eloquently than Al Gore.
You lost a lot with that guy in 2000
possibly even those two towers in New York. Why on earth does Bush think that he is uniquely qualified to counter terrorist attacks when in fact it was the Clinton administration which after 1993 Feb 26 kept your land free from foreign terrorism? Can you imagine a President Gore to go to vacation after reading that Aug 6 memo and not asking a single follow-up question from the FBI what those ungoing investigations were all about? No way. He would have shaken every tree in the federal government
to find out what was coming. But what did Bush do? He didn't have a clue. He knew nothing about transnational terrorism and modern counter-terrorism. He didn't read a single book about the subject. He didn't consult with outside experts. (He did that with stem-cell research in Aug,2001 just to make sure that people knew he was intellectually enganged. Jesus!) He didn't read the Hart-Rudman report, he didn't read the Gore report on vaiation seuirty he didn't read the 1999 CIA report that mentioned the very scenario that happened on 9/11, he did not follow the US Cole investigation he didn't review earlier intel memos on al Qaeda while the system was blinking red. What an asshole!
This I think should have been emphasized during the campaign.
Anyway, keep up the good fight and remember the right-wing lost every single culture war they declared in history even if they won battles. Don't let America become a Christian Saudi Arabia. Down with the fundamentalist idiots everywhere!
Hi!
My condolences guys I'm really glad
I don't live in the US. I'm from Hungary (you know the "New Europe" as "Rumsfeld The Incompetent" would call it with all his available arrogance) where most people opposed that insane war in Iraq but the government caved in to Bush. No more. We're gonna leave maybe as early as December.
Bush is an idiot and monumental liar and noone can pick him apart more eloquently than Al Gore.
You lost a lot with that guy in 2000
possibly even those two towers in New York. Why on earth does Bush think that he is uniquely qualified to counter terrorist attacks when in fact it was the Clinton administration which after 1993 Feb 26 kept your land free from foreign terrorism? Can you imagine a President Gore to go to vacation after reading that Aug 6 memo and not asking a single follow-up question from the FBI what those ungoing investigations were all about? No way. He would have shaken every tree in the federal government
to find out what was coming. But what did Bush do? He didn't have a clue. He knew nothing about transnational terrorism and modern counter-terrorism. He didn't read a single book about the subject. He didn't consult with outside experts. (He did that with stem-cell research in Aug,2001 just to make sure that people knew he was intellectually enganged. Jesus!) He didn't read the Hart-Rudman report, he didn't read the Gore report on vaiation seuirty he didn't read the 1999 CIA report that mentioned the very scenario that happened on 9/11, he did not follow the US Cole investigation he didn't review earlier intel memos on al Qaeda while the system was blinking red. What an asshole!
This I think should have been emphasized during the campaign.
Anyway, keep up the good fight and remember the right-wing lost every single culture war they declared in history even if they won battles. Don't let America become a Christian Saudi Arabia. Down with the fundamentalist idiots everywhere!
You leftists have no idea how wonderful it is to watch the crumbling of a media hijacked party.
First on the list for '06 victories?
Rid the election system of any machine that cannot be audited... we have too many "leap of faith" machines.
Activism on these machines now!
Our system is being controlled... we must fight back.
- RickStar
Move on? The hell I will! Not when more of us voted for John Kerry than voted for Shrub. Not when the votes were "counted" with software developed by Shrub's religous supporters. Not while those assholes think they are getting away with it. And especially not while people like you are trying to convince me to get over the election and "move on". Not when I know America has been corrupted by greedy and powerful men.
Move on? The hell I will! Not when more of us voted for John Kerry than voted for Shrub. Not when the votes were "counted" with software developed by Shrub's religous supporters. Not while those assholes think they are getting away with it. And especially not while people like you are trying to convince me to get over the election and "move on". Not when I know America has been corrupted by greedy and powerful men.
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