I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Huzzah!
Let's nixon bush and his morality.
I decided to stop paying the Times $1 a day, today. I don't have a TV. Guess I'll have to get a radio...
We must expose Bush and his phony morality.
Deconstruct Bush, construct US.
He doesn't now the meaning of moral. If he did, he wouldn't kill children and take food out of the mouths of the poor.
He's the anti-christ. He says the right things, but his actions are far different. Why people believe him, I just can't understand.
Diebold, bitches.
http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/2...04/04-
24634.htm
He's the anti-christ. He says the right things, but his actions are far different. Why people believe him, I just can't understand.
They're delusional. They also think jesus is a personal friend.
Either Atrios is selling some hair-loss remedy, or this is an ad on Air America.
I'll have a draft | Email | Homepage | 11.04.04 - 9:37 pm | #
Fuck.
How about discussing the "something" that's "coming" on your blog?
Go Atrios!
I am all over the Man-Date business. In a few short days we could make that word absolute poison!
I want to take away everything they like.
Who's yer man date?
He didn't win the presidency. He won a losing war, the biggest deficit in history and 55 million pissed Americans. Big prize!
Atrios is on now discussing the man date. Here is the link:
Air America | Listen Live
That speech is hilarious. Too bad we don't have that dictator for President.
did atrios say "movement" ???
Katrina - yes! Bush owns his failures!
Let BUsh choke on his failures. His fall is going to be bigger than Nixon's!
I have been hearing that Howard Dean won a bet and is taking over the DNC. Maybe that's the "movement"
I have been hearing that Howard Dean won a bet and is taking over the DNC. Maybe that's the "movement"
I have been hearing that Howard Dean won a bet and is taking over the DNC. Maybe that's the "movement"
I too cancelled my NYT Sunday subscription; I don't need 4 more years of RNC press releases for $24 a month.
As a Gay Man in an 8-year "marriage", I am supporting the privatization of Social Security big time now. F--k all those red staters who will lose retirements in bad investments and wish they had SS. By that time we'll be in our nice little hacienda in Mexico, and all those "values" folks can eat their bibles.
That would be great!
Is that the secret? That John Kerry is going to "continue fighting" ?
The Vatican let us down. The Pope was too quiet about Bush's craziness.
Rovesputin planned it well. Expose the priest child molesters and discredit the Vatican, take their power away. Don't we get it? Rovesputin has been brewing this for a decade. He is an evil bastard. The only consolation is that if we take notice of history, we see what happened to Rasputin. Let's wush the same for Rovesputin.
I don't think it's understandable that Kerry quit before the votes were counted and before the fraud was exposed. If that's the way we're going to do it, why bother having an election at all?
Is that the secret? That John Kerry is going to "continue fighting" ?
Yup, I bet that was it. Wonder what exactly that means . . .
Unless the country uses paper ballots instead of voting machines, there will never be an honest election in America.
I'm really getting tired of this red state welfare crap. I know that this isn't serious. I know that this is just liberal elites in the north and northeast looking down on other people. You guys are soooooo good at announcing how much better you are than people in other states. For people who got whipped so badly on Tuesday you sure are full of yourselves.
What's really funny about this is that the whole idea of comming up with ballot intiatives was to drive Democratic voter turnout in Red states. So, exactly how would this crap help that? Morons.
What happened to the Democratic Party response?
Appeasement didn't work for Neville Chamberlain. What on earth makes people think it will work for Democrats?
Are they "welfare states" when they get defense contracts too? Ole Trent made Mississippi is a major welfare mom, drives two Cadillac SUVs. Her common-law spouse, Alabama, is getting major teat from the govt, too.
Just caught the last few minutes of the show. What did I miss?
We need to show the catholic church how bad the evangelicals are for business - this is no secret.
It is time to evangelize the evangelicals.
The war has many fronts.
Reid as Leader really pisses me off. Just what we need: One more accomadator.
Hey, I mentioned this earlier and want to again. There is a great blogger in the Midwest who deserves more attention. I've started reading him everyday and really enjoy it.
Like a lot of us, his despair seems to have now transformed into fight and he has some good ideas.
Go read him.
Southern Democrat
Don't you mean "Dixiecrat"?
Re: the last question: "what can people do to help us win next time/get involved?"
How about getting people to try to reform their own state Democratic parties, and getting involved in those?
I'm a member & volunteer of the Kentucky Democratic Party. You know what contact I got from them all year? I got put on a mailing list, and got ONE phone call - at 5:00 PM on Nov. 1st, wondering if I was available to knock on doors and GOTV the next day.
I did some stuff on my own, and made some calls for Kerry/Edwards, but I probably would have gotten a lot more involved locally if there was an energized Democratic base around.
The revolution starts at home, folks.
I'm not going to confuse the rope-a-dope for appeasement.
What's up with the 'continue fighting' thing?
Clue me in, somebody!
Sorry. the 'movement' is about some of the right people finally coming around and recognizing the importance of both the grass roots and the internet, and beginning to take some steps to do something about it.
If they don't have paper trail, but the dems in the area are 88% and the repubs are 7.9%, but the vote showed
a +712 increase to the repubs and a -
# for the dems. And it happened in 12 counties in Florida-isn't that enough evidence.
http://ustogether.org/
Florida_El...da_Election.htm
For all who haven't witnessed the #'s that prove the count in FL wasn't correct.
"Don't you mean "Dixiecrat"?"
Philalethes
Thanks for helping to make my point.
a concession speech is nothing, it is a mere courtesy, it has no legal meaning or value or weight or color or smell or feather. Kerry's concession is not a surrender and would not stop him from going after Bush once Ohio is cleared up.
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST you'd think Atrios could've spelled this out in a post (some commenter linked it somethread else) and saved about fifty gazillion identical "Kerry abandoned us" comments.
Atrios - that's great news.
But in the meantime, can we just agitate to get our own existing Democrats to stop being so fucking accomodating?
48% is a big fucking minority party.
Southern Democrat -
If you really are "Southern," and you really are a "Democrat," then you "just got whipped so badly on Tuesday" too. It isn't just us "liberal elites" in the "Northeast" (BZZZZT! Wrong! This one's in the Southwest). All this "Red State welfare crap" is merely a device to point out to the right that their logic doesn't follow.
Their logic: People should pull themselves up by their bootstraps. If you're poor, it's because you're lazy, and you need to work harder. HOWEVER, if a state is poor (in tax receipts), then it can just sidle up to the "evil gummint" teat and suck away.
Our logic: If you're going to use the evils of the welfare state as a wedge issue, then we're going to make you follow through - in all dimensions. Sorry, but my home state (West Virginia) is a Welfare State. If people there are so convinced that the social safety net is a bad thing (and they are, believe me), then it should be cut right out from under them at the state gummint level.
I am not a "liberal elite from the Northeast". I am a liberal, I am from West Virginia (fuckin' hillbillies represent!), and I think that it would be great if the right were forced to choke on its own ass-backwards logic.
The best thing I heard during the Atrios segment came from the Nation editor who says there is a list at their site of outside-the-party groups -- moveon, etc. -- that were most effective during the campaign. Both she and Atrios talked about finding good candidates early for '06 and getting the fundraising going.
Do you have any inside info that they are going to check out the discrepancy in FL and Ohio?
Unless the country uses paper ballots instead of voting machines, there will never be an honest election in America.
mike in pr | Email | Homepage | 11.04.04 - 9:50 pm | #
----------------
I think that the Dems need a threat: No more moola and no more votes until they clean up the process. Get rid of Diebold et al. We need accountability. No more excuses.
I heard from a friend in Columbus --long lines in minority precincts!
Hoeffel should be able to take Santorum -- never to early to begin!
This is fucking crazy. Alexander Cockburn was unforgivable for talking about letting all burn down before theelection, now it's arguable Democratic policy?
kei & yuri -
I told you Kerry had something up his sleeve. The lawyers are cooking.
If not now, then later. We don't know yet. But letting the Bushies gloat and bask in their mud will distract them. They get tired too. Conserve energy, analyze.
Unless the country uses paper ballots instead of voting machines, there will never be an honest election in America.
mike in pr
Damn right, mike.
Atrios,
Are "some people's" initials G.S. and A.R.?
What's really funny about this is that the whole idea of comming up with ballot intiatives was to drive Democratic voter turnout in Red states. So, exactly how would this crap help that?
because the "religious right" are so deserving of everything they want: alientation from the civilized world.
The point is: if you want to live in a place which can support itself, a place where abortion is legal, a place where there are equal rights for gays, then you ought to move to a state which isn't run by batshit-crazy fundies.
Are you optimistic about President Bush's second term in office?
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/...litzer.reports/
a concession speech is nothing, it is a mere courtesy, it has no legal meaning or value or weight or color or smell or feather. Kerry's concession is not a surrender and would not stop him from going after Bush once Ohio is cleared up.
Yeah, I'm SO sure that is the way the SCLM is gonna spin it. Kerry gave up. It's over. He blew it.
I agree that these paperless e-vote machines have to go, but paper ballots definitely don't guarantee fair elections. LBJ just one famous example.
Absurd. Kerry didn't blow it. He could have run a better campaign, just the Republicans beat us at their game. Again.
Yes, let's start a meme that those red states are "welfare states", sucking off govt. teats. It incenses my conservative relatives when I show them the map.
To the cartography lab!
just the Republicans beat us at their game
They cheated.
Truth will out.
I think that the Dems need a threat: No more moola and no more votes until they clean up the process. Get rid of Diebold et al. We need accountability. No more excuses.
As appealing as that is, it is also counter-productive. I think we need to continue to support our leaders, especially any at home, but we also do need to support our favorite 527's who can be very effective.
Let every Democratic Senator you can think of know you are not happy with Reid. A huge outcry now from the base would not fall on deaf ears.
Kerry needs rest now. He has to regroup. Cut him some slack. He will emerge strong with the help of his children and wife.
Thanks for helping to make my point.
Southern Democrat
You're welcome.
Not only does Kerry have a well deserved rest coming, but we need a fresh face.
the battle is not about the past, it is about the future.
They cheated.
Truth will out.
pie
Yes, and we all remember the outrage we all felt when we learned that the Patriot missle tests were faked, right? Right?
Truth will out, but no one will care by then. I want this election back NOW, and I'm sick of being sold out.
We need to strenghthen our base, make it broader, shape it well.
reposted from another thread, and worth a read considering atrios's definition of "the movement:"
http://customerevangelists.typepad.com/blog/2004/
11/a_subtle_but_im.html
About the importance of working the base in this election, and why the GOP did it better than the Dems.
I think we have to stop talking about strategy so much. Yes it's needed at election time, and we did better with this election than in the past.
But Kerry failed because he wouldn't really stand up for left wing values. He hedged on them because they aren't the most popular ones right now. Bush is unashamed of his right wing values, no he can't enact them all, but he still stands up for them.
We need candidates who won't downplay our values just becuase most of the electorate doesn't like them. We're the minority party now anyway WE'VE GOT NOTHING TO LOSE.
We are for gay rights and gay marriage, let's admit it. We're for abortion on demand, let's shout it. We're for a government that's the right size at the right time, to avoid deficeits and fully fund the coffers at times of war and great need. We are for social programs that help the destitute and for universal health care to the extent we can afford them. We are against the war in Iraq.
Let's not compromise on a candidate that won't openly stand for our beliefs.
Has anyone read Greg Palast today?
Here is a great Call to Arms with some great ideas.
Go read it. You'll like it.
denial is a state in Europe:
Meanwhile, Mr Blair was working to heal rifts over Iraq, and flew to Brussels to rally EU leaders.
Last night he called on Europe’s leaders to end their “state of denial” over Mr Bush’s election win.
...
He told The Times countries against the war must now work with the US.
The PM said: “The election has happened. America has spoken. The rest of the world should listen.
“It is important that America listens to the rest of the world too.
“The fact is that President Bush is there for four years. Some people are in a sort of state of denial.”
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/
...4512444,00.html
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!!!!!!
We got our asses handed to us.
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!!!!!!
Change my diaper!!!!!!!!!!
Here is a great Call to Arms with some great ideas.
Go read it. You'll like it.
mark this...
here is the forthcoming nasty.
clarence thomas as chief. then complete replacement of the bench. all appointed by bush.
then the bush regime will submit a petition to the court to vacate the 2-term limit. the court will unanimously approve.
and it will become groundhog day, bush will become the de jure dictator of the united states. outlasting fdr. outlasting joe stalin and mao.
you think that this is tinfoil hat stuff, don't you? so, copy it, put it away. review it every four years.
think on the fact that i predicted this on 4/11/04.
you will think me to be nostradamus.
Personally, we've already plotted our revenge. Hillary '06, baby, and let the wingnuts choke on it.
The Birth of a Neo-Fascist Nation.
Hey, troll? You haven't improved with age, and you support a moron.
What does that say about you?
you will think me to be nostradamus
And he was right too, wasn't he.
Good grief.
Hillary in O6 is there fucking dream. They talk endlessly about it.
Hillary is way to derisive a charter to build a coalition. We need to expand our base, not narrow it.
Don't get me wrong, I love her, but she could no more win the WH than I could.
Albert Champion- you win
The point is: if you want to live in a place which can support itself, a place where abortion is legal, a place where there are equal rights for gays, then you ought to move to a state which isn't run by batshit-crazy fundies.
Now this is ridiculous.
Not everyone can just pull up roots and go. Good grief, if we could, do you think we'd be here? For some, it's economic--tell a Hispanic woman with three kids in West San Antonio working at the Malt House for $5.15/hr that she should just move if she doesn't like the place where she lives.
For some, there are family concerns--elderly parents and the like.
Some have jobs holding them to a place.
Everyone's circumstance is different, but moving ISN'T the answer.
I understand the sentiment behind this red state/blue-state thing, but the ONE thing I don't like is how we are falling right into the Republican divide-and-conquer mentality by going that route.
I'm sorry, my idea of America is that we're all in this together. Yes, there are a bunch of people in deadbeat states who vote for Bush. But there were plenty in those same states who didn't.
This sounds just like the America love it or leave it crowd. It's not an either/or. There are other ways. We need to find them. We can. We're the smarter party.
Yes, as Atrios and Van Huevel (sp.?) noted, get candidates early, begin to help them. Lead the 'Mericun people to logic--they have been led to illogic, which should be a reversible disease. But do not co-opt Rethug policy because we want to win--co-opt some policy only if it is logical and beneficial to the people--Greenfuzz has it right.
If knuckle-dragging thugs can lead people to hate, then surely we can lead them in a better direction.
"Sorry. the 'movement' is about some of the right people finally coming around and recognizing the importance of both the grass roots and the internet, and beginning to take some steps to do something about it."
If that's what the "movement" was, Atrios, this must be the most anticlimactic follow-up to a teaser in the history of Eschaton.
I've been coming back here and checking in every 15 or 30 minutes for several fucking hours, because I thought you had some good news about the vote count, or that Kerry was still fighting on behind the scenes to challenge the results. And if you read the comment thread below under your "something's coming" post, you'll notice that a shitload of other people had similar hopes.
Hope can be a terrible thing.
In the future, please just come right out and say what you're talking about. I guarantee this is the last time I waste so much effort reading your tea leaves for so little payoff.
Ahhh! I love the saound of a troll! It energizes me! Just like the smell of napalm in the morning!
Southern Democrat - as another southern Democrat, let me explain how it would help, were it possible (it isn't for reasons which will follow): it would demonstrate to the red welfare states that there is a cost associated with voting on the basis of bigotry rather than enlightened self-interest. And that's a lesson that's going to have to be learned, or we have to accept that the USA is over and done.
Now, here's why it won't work: Congress decides where they're going to get money, and who they're going to give it to. The Republicans control everything and the red welfare states gave them that control.
We can all figure out the rest of it.
Hillary in O6 is there fucking dream. They talk endlessly about it.
This is pitiful.
Oh, so we're having another election in two years?
Have you taken a civics (or spelling) course yet?
Our children is learnin'. Thanks, georgie.
Soldiers Describe Looting of Explosives
Iraqis piled high-grade material from a
key site into trucks in the weeks after
Baghdad fell, four U.S. reservists and
guardsmen say.
By Mark Mazzetti, LA Times Staff Writer
WASHINGTON — In the weeks after the fall
of Baghdad, Iraqi looters loaded
powerful explosives into pickup trucks
and drove the material away from the Al
Qaqaa ammunition site, according to a
group of U.S. Army reservists and
National Guardsmen who said they
witnessed the looting.
...
The soldiers, who belong to two
different units, described how Iraqis
plundered explosives from unsecured
bunkers before driving off in Toyota
trucks.
The U.S. troops said there was little
they could do to prevent looting of the
ammunition site, 30 miles south of
Baghdad.
"We were running from one side of the
compound to the other side, trying to
kick people out," said one senior
noncommissioned officer who was at the
site in late April 2003.
"On our last day there, there were at
least 100 vehicles waiting at the site
for us to leave" so looters could come
in and take munitions.
"It was complete chaos. It was looting
like L.A. during the Rodney King
riots," another officer said.
He and other soldiers who spoke to The
Times asked not to be named, saying
they feared retaliation from the
Pentagon
I have been hearing that Howard Dean won a bet and is taking over the DNC. Maybe that's the "movement"
I could get behind that.
Look, quit your bellyaching about what we did wrong. Instead think about why they're fucking fruit cakes.
Don't believe me? we put up good, moderate, sober candidates in those senate races and what did the wingers do? they chose each and every time to elect a nutter instead. These people aren't rational.
Tell'm albert. You're in texas- you know these people.
I'm getting tired of the trashers of John Kerry, someone who's stood up for liberal values all his life. If anyone thinks that appealing to the liberal "base" MORE than he did during this election will gain Democrats more votes they're on drugs. it might be true that there was election fraud, but short of that, most people who live in this country aren't liberal. They hate the word, hate the concept, and hate their fellow human beings (those who are born anyway). John Kerry made mistakes, no doubt, but compared to Bush? Get real - blame the morons, not John Kerry.
Diebold diebold diebold diebold diebold diebold diebold diebold diebold diebold fucking DIEBOLD, bitches! If the votes had been counted, we'd be the smirking
man-daters. Getting rid of those machines HAS to be #1 on our to-do list.
I don't want to hear anybody say that this was lost because of Kerry or because we weren't f**cking religious enough or that we need to understand the bigots.
The election was stolen, whether through computer machines supplied by a bush supporter or voters that went home after standing on lines for 9 hours. Nobody wants to face the fact that this could happen twice, or maybe you don't want to get your hopes up and get defeated. But we have to keep pressing and let the DNC know we will not be disappointed if they continue to fight.
Blame the victim. Lets look at where the blame is-right wing cheaters.
My guess is that when the final #'s come in from the absentee and provisional ballots-if the #'s are close enough, they will come out fighting hard. Maybe a re-count in Ohio. Also we are winning in NM, Iowa and Nevada are close and not final and we can still check those states without Ohio or Florida if necessary.
BRING IT ON-raised fists!
Kerry did not fail. Mondale failed. Dukakis failed. Kerry fought a decent fight. He was up against quite a foe. He did superbly in the debates and looked like a winner headed into the election. Even the WaPo and NYT ran stories the night before confirming this.
Kerry did better than most candidates who have challenged an incumbant president in war time.
And kindly quit talking like this was a big loss until we get the real numbers and farud allegations have been put to rest.
One state would have made the difference. It was not a crushing defeat at all. It was extremely close, and I still bet Kerry won but for vote machine/counting fraud and destruction of ballots. In my travels around the country prior to and on election day, the energy against Bush was intense and unmistakable. The election "results" seem out of sync with nearly every other objective measurement of where this race was headed. After 2000, it is only rreasonable to have doubts.
Here you go:
http://www.anti-state.com/articl...?
article_id=395
GDoyle
Everyone's circumstance is different, but moving ISN'T the answer.
Hey, it is for me.
I don't want to live among people who think torture is a reasonable tactic. I've spent the last year talking endlessly to these people, telling them the facts, correcting the spin, providing articles.... blah blah blah. A fucking waste of time. They all agree with me on the facts and then say, "but I like that Bush is a man of faith!"
I'm tired of beating my head against a wall. I want to live among sane people again.
Okay. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I just looked at the data from Florida (see post further up) and Bush's votes in the questionable counties are a statistical impossiblity. The fact that he would get that many votes given the number of registered republicans in the county. Way more of a statistical outlier than the Buchanan/Palm Beach county fiasco of 2000.
Anon..
Agree with you, we don't have Diebold here in PA. but wherever they are the voters have got to fight them locally. Hell, find out where they're at and smash them with a baseball bat. How can we ever compete, if we can't count the votes!!!
[Kerry] was up against quite a foe.
dogbreath
Um...what?
Yeah, I'm SO sure that is the way the SCLM is gonna spin it. Kerry gave up. It's over. He blew it.
Actually, it may have been the smart thing to do.
Look, if Kerry leads the charge for counting all the votes, we're right back at Y2K, and the sore loser crap. But if he backs off and lets the good citizens handle it, like, oh those Brooks Bros. protesters in Florida did for Bush, then hm... It looks like a POPULAR movement for an examination of the votes.
Also, there's an undercurrent of, "You wanted it buddy, it's yours." Because, let's face it, Kerry would have had one hell of an ugly battle ahead of him with a hostile Congress and an even more hostile media. Now all the Republican crap are belong to Bush and his base. Let 'em wallow in it.
And pass the popcorn.
From a previous thread: "I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but I feel lost. Alone. Before the election I used to get a sense of belonging to a huge group of like-minded people (thanks to all the blogs),but now it feels like something is gone. Like something left. Like I've been dumped.
I feel so sad for our country."
I've never felt this way about politics or this country. Jeez, what happened?"
You must be new to the democratic party. I'm a lifelong democrat, we know disappointment. That said, I worked hard for JK and gave much, for the first time ever, both. I don't regret a moment or a dime. Disappointed, not discouraged.
4LG:
I wish it were an option for me to leave. But it isn't. So I have to stay here. Ah well. I'll do what I can for the people everyone else is willing to forget.
Now all the Republican crap are belong to Bush and his base. Let 'em wallow in it.
And pass the popcorn.
I'm making it even as we speak.
We must expose Bush and his phony morality.
All the people that would care about it already knew.
I know someone who... well, is in general a Christian. But he was adamant that he could not vote for Kerry because Kerry is pro-choice.
I tried to explain to him that Bush and the Republicans aren't really pro-life: they support the death penalty, they started an unnecessary war, that they intentionally refused to include reasonable exceptions in the D&E ban bill, so they could use it for leverage with the anti-abortion voters.
He didn't get it. He voted for Bush anyway.
To put it bluntly, the people we're talking about do not care about actually defending life. They only care about someone claiming to espouse their point of view.
Not sure how many of you are familiar with Dean's Democracy for America. But he HAS been working to take our country back by supporting local and national candidates everywhere with the backing of the great grassroots of DFA.
In this past election, 1/3 of the Dean Dozens won their elections - a great rate of return considering many of these people were running for office for the first time.
Small bites. Small bites.
If you're interested in joining -
www.deanforamerica.com
or if you're interested in getting inspired -
www.blogforamerica.com
fourlegsgood...
Where you going?
http://www.nov3.us/index.php
No Stolen Elections Campaign!
Seraphiel -
we started too late. But now we are gathering momentum. You cannot expect a 180 dregree turn around in a couple of months.
We must expose Bush and his inmorality.
I thought it was Hillary in '04. Remember those stalking horses Clarke and Dean? Then pigbaugh told me Hil was gonna bump off Kerry and get in that way. What happened?
Oh, according to Media Matters insannity has already started his Hillary '08 watch. That should be interesting.
Kerry] was up against quite a foe.
dogbreath
Um...what?
The foe was the entire GOP establishment machinery/federal gov./congress/courts and media aparatus.
The foe was willing to fan bigotry and exploit hatred of gays, to divide the country, in order to have a shot at winning. It dressed up as Jesus. Things we would not tolerate in our candidate were weapons of choice on the other side.
You think you have what it takes to run against Elmer Fud backed by the GOP asparatus? Bet you don't.
gz, not sure yet, but it won't be a red state.
Seraphiel is right, these people are fucking clueless. One of my co-workers is a fundie (she's always praying for me and shit and trying to set me up on blind dates with people from her church)- she's going to africa on her vacation to work at an orphanage, but she doesn't give a shit about the people we killed in Iraq. We needed to "send a message" she says.
I rest my case.
To gorsh
I am entirely sober. Using language like "appeal to the 'liberal' base" is strategy talk, and that's not even the plane I think we should be working on.
Forget about winning the presidency for now, we aren't going to win it and we aren't going to get majorities in houses unless we get some people to agree with us on some things.
This is what the right did when they saw their 1950's values go out the window. They are now poised to bring those 1950's right back to us because they never repudiated their values, they honed them and put them out there , and the pendulum went their way.
We need to win "the hearts and minds" of other Americans with our ideas. We don't have to use the word liberal, we just have to clearly elucidate our ideas without shame and explain why folks would be better off if we could put them into action. We can't get that done if we've got politicians that are afraid to discuss them directly. If they won't then we must.
It's hard to win and argument when you don't have a clear position. You can't convince someone of something unless you say what it is. I know that politics is in how you say it to convince the most people. Right now equivocating is not being valued as much as bluntness.
We won with Clinton because he himself was charismatic. We can't count on charisma, and we have to have better ideas when their candidates are more charismatic than ours.
lima - I agree with that too.
While Dems in Congress follow a tack of "passive resistance" in abstaining from voting, Dem 527s need to continue in full-steam fundraising mode, and continue to run ads highlighting Republican hypocrisy and misdeeds.
I'd like to see a billboard on a major thoroughfare (preferably main routes from fundie suburbs) that simply says "Your share of the Republican debt" with a digital counter. Like the "national debt clock" in Times Square. Let them see each day on their commute to work how much Bush has cost them in the previous 24 hours. Keep the damn things up for the next 4 years. 527s can and should be doing this type of thing.
Look, if Kerry leads the charge for counting all the votes, we're right back at Y2K, and the sore loser crap. But if he backs off and lets the good citizens handle it, like, oh those Brooks Bros. protesters in Florida did for Bush, then hm... It looks like a POPULAR movement for an examination of the votes.
This is the conclusion I drew, too. There would be NO way of investigating while some three-ring media circus was going on down there, and the GOP was throwing pixie-dust in everyone's eyes.
Of the various possible reasons for Kerry's quick concession, I think this one has the least evidence against it. We'll see. (I have a tiny bit more about this on my homepage.)
I guess it is unseemly to gloat. So if you're not Old Hat then please don't read this.
But if you _are_ Old Hat then: ha ha ha ha ha ha. Bite me, you buttheaded fascist. Boy did you deserve it.
That is all.
hadenough
Things we would not tolerate in our candidate were weapons of choice on the other side.
Had to be repeated.
Jennifer - I like that idea. Anybody wiling to pick it up? This is where we can apply our funds. Let us be the media.
we started too late. But now we are gathering momentum. You cannot expect a 180 dregree turn around in a couple of months.
I've been trying for four years to expose all the bullshit, but his lunatic base DOES NOT CARE.
Truly, they don't care.
George W. Bush could eat a toddler on live television, and as long as he kept telling people he was a man of faith, he believes every blastula should have a chance to live, to be poor, to lack an education, to be drafted for the armies of the Republic of Gilead and die for the Lord, the anti-choice crowd would fucking swoon over him.
It's like trying to have a reasonable discussion with a lemming. "Don't jump off that cliff! You'll die. Seriously, you'll die. Lemmings can't swim."
Sorry, that should have read "on a main throroughfare in every medium sized to major red-state city in the country..."
Why did Kerry concede so soon? He let every democrat down and, therefore, deserves the loss he got. So where are our leaders today? Who are they and what do they stand for? What do we stand for? Are we going to fight Bush for four years or are we going to agree and disagree with him? We need to stand for our purpose to be representative of all peoples of color, race, and religion. Democracy is in a perilous state and we need to fight to keep this spirit alive.
Bush's votes in the questionable counties are a statistical impossiblity.
You think those are bad, take a look at Nader's votes....county-by-county, especially. Way past what he got elsewhere. Same with the other alternative candidates.
I think we might do well not to discuss this stuff very much just yet. Don't wanto to jinx it, after all.
Seraphiel -
And you did well. But a movement needs time. This is just the beginning. Don't give up, use your anger energy toward the rebuilding of our base. That's how they did it.
I'd like to see a billboard on a major thoroughfare (preferably main routes from fundie suburbs) that simply says "Your share of the Republican debt" with a digital counter.
Actually, I'd thought a better sign would be sort of freewaybloggerish:
A silhouette of the Iraqi prisoner standing on a box, with a huge red white and blue W on his chest.
hat, Old Hat is a bigger, better and more intelligent man than you could ever hope to be.
But, then again, you're a worm.
We will not claim Republican "values" as our own. Democratic values do not need to be qualified by words such as "compassionate" because our values represent all that is true and good. We do not need to tell people of our faith because we live it everyday for all to see. We treat people with respect, compassion and love. They may speak of "values", but we embody the very word. We believe that all humans are created equal and no matter your race, creed, religion or sexuality all are welcome. "Faith without action is as dead as a body without a soul-James 2:26." Take action.
Anonymous -
I have a feeling you are re-experiencing Gore's situation. I don't think this is the same. Let's wait and see what they are cooking up for us - Kerry et al. The Repugs want to see us on our knees. Well, I will not give it to them. What I will give them is down the road and they will not know what hit them.
Let's nixon Bush!!!
Bush will carry out his new mandate to further divide our nation, but more important than this, he will use religion to channel his crimes. Bush is THE ANTI-CHRIST!!!!!!!
Seraphiel -
We need to make these things happen, get these great ideas to paper, to cardboard, to billboards. It is persitance - the only way.
Seraphiel -
We need to make these things happen, get these great ideas to paper, to cardboard, to billboards. It is persistance - the only way.
I'm not expecting anything new to pan out in Ohio. There's a slim chance of the provisional and absentee ballots tipping the scales, and a possibility in Ohio and Florida of lawsuits exposing the massive fraud. More than likely the media will try to cover it all up, so as not to disrupt the script they've already started reading.
But, I have to say I would probably wet myself with glee, just to see all the media courtesans looking earnestly into the camera and explaining to everyone that they probably should have waited until all the votes were counted, and they were completely fucking wrong, and all the bullshit over the past two weeks yapping about "a second Bush administration" was entirely premature... And then, maybe, everyone would finally just turn the fuckers off once and for all.
I'm not betting on it. But it would be sweet.
i'm puzzled.
there is this entity known as pee.
before the election when i cited greg palast's observation into the vote fraud that was already ongoing in florida, this entity threatened to throw my scrawny ass into the gulf of mexico for mentioning it. as if my mentioning the fact that a vote fraud was in progress to re-elect the bushits made me a party to the fraud. in fact, pee labeled me a troll. tonite he does it again.
how odd, don't you think?
continues to make me wonder about pee's credentials...
after all, all i am relating is my speculation into what i think is going to go down. just as i related palast's observations in the hope that they would spur someone to call the dnc, call the police, monitor the vote.
strangely enough, that didn't happen. the dnc, the kerry campaign, reclined and let the frauds continue. and then kerry conceded in the face of the recognition of the frauds. hmmmmmmmm.
once again, mentioning this, pee charges me with being a troll. you be the judge.
if i have ever been a troll, if you tell me that i have been one, and proffer evidence, i shall vacate this site forever.
fourlegsgood, it is astonishing. i employ lots of women. i have been interviewing them casually about the election. they don't know my politics. i think that they assume because i am el patron that i am on their side, the republican side of the agenda.
here is what i heard about why they voted against kerry...
1. kerry is not a christian.
2. kerry supports homosexuality
3. kerry supports abortion
4. kerry was a vietnam war criminal
5. kerry wants to end the war in iraq, the war against the 11/09/01 terrorists.
reporting this, according to pee's standards, will make me a troll.
some of you have more gray matter and will savvy what i am telling you.
clearly the kerry campaign and the dnc did a lousy job.
would anyone argue with me about that assertion?
i don't pretend to understand why the entity known as pee wants to attack me for relating clear-headed and honest interpretations of the dnc inadequacies.
does pee have a small dick?
i don't know. perhaps someone out there can tell us why pee can't read. perhaps pee is a product of the george bush education program.
so it goes. beam me up scotty. even the left can't be intelligent. i want a new universe.
I'd like to see a billboard on a major thoroughfare (preferably main routes from fundie suburbs) that simply says "Your share of the Republican debt" with a digital counter.
yeah, I like it!
What's the name of that Clash song that goes....What are we going to do now?
Blah, blah, blah, something about..headed for the clampdown, you keep wearing brown and blue, and we're headed for the clampdown...
My God, I've got such a bad feeling in the pit of my stomache, how do I make it stop?
Seraphiel -
Keep that thought going! If anything, it will carry you through until we can nixon Bush. It will happen. Persistance. Let's build the base, polish it, broaden it.
albert champion -
i don't feel like peeing on you. i do think it's good to have a look in the morror - often. i am not afraid of jabberwalkie (sp?) you know - alice's nemesis: herself. so, i thank you for your words.
That would be 'Clampdown'. hehehe
Anus..
I knew that, I just wanted to see if anybody else knew.
I think London Calling was the best album of the '80s.
John Kerry fought a good fight and I feel he done a very good job considering he was up against a incumbent in the middle of war. We all know it was not Kerry's fought this election was lost. This damn election was stolen just like the last one. Stop and think about some of the shit that happen in Florida, Ohio, and Michigan. In areas in all three states where there was heavy democratic stronghold and Kerry campaigned in and encouraged his supporters to vote early was the same damn places that for no reason at all the damn power went out for no explained reason for 45 min. to 4 hours. When this shit happen they locked the doors didn't let anyone in and never did these fuckers have any logical explanation for what the hell happed all the said is the didn't know what the hell happen but everything was up and running again. Well stop and ask yourself how many of the votes was lost during this shit. They had to of lost the shit because the shit wasn't saved yet because nothing had been tallied and with no paper trail the answer is well screw democrats! The exit polls for these areas back this up? These bastards stole this election again! Also think about when your power goes out at home and your computer alot of times loses data that has to be restored. Bush and his people went around bragging about winning the three states I mentioned and it just so happens that is where the power outages where and in the heavy democratic areas! Mandate my ass these bastards had to cheat to win any I feel that any real democrat that has worked there ass off during this campaign and seen the GOTV efforts first hand know this is true! The only damn problem we have is proving it without the paper trail to back it up! These bastards knew what they were doing by not having a paper trail. Damn this shit pisses me off!
And now the fucktard is running around like he's got some kind of mandate. I know where your coming from Misty.
It's like giving a monkey a machine gun, let's just hope they ignore us and start devoring each other, like some others on the site think.
i just shit all over myself
Ohio was taken care of, for the most part, before the voters could cast their votes. By threatening poll challengers and inadequately equipping polling places in minority districts like downtown Columbus and Toledo, they guaranteed they wouldn't have to steal votes -- because votes you prevent people from casting can't be counted in the aftermath.
It's called scaring the black folk. Ken Blackwell knows how -- he's black folk himself. He knew being threatened by authority figures would dissuade a certain percentage of poor and minority voters, regardless of race, because they get hassled often enough in Ohio cities for 'being a n***er on a sunny day,' as Franklin Ajaye once claimed he was pulled over for in Beverly Hills. Ajaye joked that he 'managed to get it reduced to partly cloudy' -- few poor minorities are so fortunate.
Between that and the gay marriage amendment -- which, when Mr. Nownow looked at the numbers Tuesday night, reflects an unpleasant reality; more people voted for it than voted for the Naked Emperor -- they managed to scare (literally, in many cases) enough votes up to bring it to within the range that they could declare the Naked Emperor our fearless leader for another four years.
Fair, monitored voting with a paper trail of some kind, with the same well-maintained machines in all districts, and with a machine for every so many voters registered in each precinct -- say one for every five hundred -- is the only way any vote will ever be fair in Ohio as long as Blackwell is the Secretary Of State.
Anybody want to hold their breath until that happens? I live here, I know better.
Gordon, hasn't mommy put you to bed yet?
What are we gonna do now?
Taking off his turban, they said, is this man a jew?
’cause they’re working for the clampdown
They put up a poster saying we earn more than you!
When we’re working for the clampdown
We will teach our twisted speech
To the young believers
We will train our blue-eyed men
To be young believers
The judge said five to ten-but I say double that again
I’m not working for the clampdown
No man born with a living soul
Can be working for the clampdown
Kick over the wall ’cause government’s to fall
How can you refuse it?
Let fury have the hour, anger can be power
D’you know that you can use it?
The voices in your head are calling
Stop wasting your time, there’s nothing coming
Only a fool would think someone could save you
The men at the factory are old and cunning
You don’t owe nothing, so boy get runnin’
It’s the best years of your life they want to steal
You grow up and you calm down
You’re working for the clampdown
You start wearing the blue and brown
You’re working for the clampdown
So you got someone to boss around
It makes you feel big now
You drift until you brutalize
You made your first kill now
In these days of evil presidentes
Working for the clampdown
But lately one or two has fully paid their due
For working for the clampdown
But ha! gitalong! gitalong!
And I’ve given away no secrets
Who’s barmy now?
I have to admit I was up all damn night watching the results come in but when I seen Florida called for Bush I knew then these bastards had succeeded in stealing another election! Now all the hell I think about is how to destroy these bastards! We can't just roll over and quit that is what these assholes are hoping for and as far as the ones I know they are madder than hell and all are saying there is no way in hell they would ever stand behind this SOB or back anything he or the GOP go to do! The just started world war III right here at home and they better be ready for it because real democrats always fight to get what they want or they will die trying which ever comes first!
I'm with dogbreath. Kerry ran hard, and won more votes than any Democrat in history (and, IIRC, second only to Reagan in '84 for any presidential candidate at all). He was up against a war president (and war presidents have never been beaten during a war in American history), a tough GOP machine that was willing to do and say anything to win, and media which were willing to carry water for the Rethugs. The Republicans won some of those states by narrow margins, even if we discount the idea of voting fraud, and it came down again to one state which they took by a narrow margin. They do not have a broad, nationwide mandate, as they are claiming, as they took no states in the NE, only one in the industrial midwest (Indiana, which is a longtime Rethug stronghold anyway), and none on the west coast. (By contrast, Nixon in '72 took every state but DC and Massachusetts, and Reagan in '84 every state but Minnesota.)
The Rethugs won by, among other things, riling up the fundie churchs so they'd get their members out. It was GOTV where we lost, and that narrowly.
I say we have something to build on for '06 and '08. More than we had for '88.
You know, listening to this guy Mike Malloy on Air America tonight for about half an hour and you gotta ask yourself: where's this guy goin' with all the, I'm not sure what it is, hysteria, satire? I'm trying to figure out who this is for and what the effect is supposed to be. If it's for MOR lefties like myself, are they supposed to be entertained? Alarmed? Enlightened? OK. It's not for me. It must be for the curious righties who wonder what the frothing liberals are ranting about tonight. And Malloy thinks that if he can freak them out with his bullshit he might get them to stick around long enough to hear a scary fact or two and think twice. Is that right? Where is Air America going with this?
i'm puzzled.
there is this entity known as pee.
before the election when i cited greg palast's observation into the vote fraud that was already ongoing in florida, this entity threatened to throw my scrawny ass into the gulf of mexico for mentioning it. as if my mentioning the fact that a vote fraud was in progress to re-elect the bushits made me a party to the fraud. in fact, pee labeled me a troll. tonite he does it again.
how odd, don't you think?
continues to make me wonder about pee's credentials...
after all, all i am relating is my speculation into what i think is going to go down. just as i related palast's observations in the hope that they would spur someone to call the dnc, call the police, monitor the vote.
strangely enough, that didn't happen. the dnc, the kerry campaign, reclined and let the frauds continue. and then kerry conceded in the face of the recognition of the frauds. hmmmmmmmm.
once again, mentioning this, pee charges me with being a troll. you be the judge.
if i have ever been a troll, if you tell me that i have been one, and proffer evidence, i shall vacate this site forever.
fourlegsgood, it is astonishing. i employ lots of women. i have been interviewing them casually about the election. they don't know my politics. i think that they assume because i am el patron that i am on their side, the republican side of the agenda.
here is what i heard about why they voted against kerry...
1. kerry is not a christian.
2. kerry supports homosexuality
3. kerry supports abortion
4. kerry was a vietnam war criminal
5. kerry wants to end the war in iraq, the war against the 11/09/01 terrorists.
reporting this, according to pee's standards, will make me a troll.
some of you have more gray matter and will savvy what i am telling you.
clearly the kerry campaign and the dnc did a lousy job.
would anyone argue with me about that assertion?
i don't pretend to understand why the entity known as pee wants to attack me for relating clear-headed and honest interpretations of the dnc inadequacies.
does pee have a small dick?
i don't know. perhaps someone out there can tell us why pee can't read. perhaps pee is a product of the george bush education program.
so it goes. beam me up scotty. even the left can't be intelligent. i want a new universe.
You think Kerry will rise from the dead in a month with a blitzkrieg of court challenges and bomb the shit out of Rove's stolen election? Kerry strategy last month of the campaign: let them do their Diebold and their polling-place intimidation. If we lose, quietly go under the radar for a month, then reappear, just when they think they've buried us, and quitly file the lawsuits.
Or maybe we couldn't get enough lawyers who were willing to take the risk.
Albert,
They would have to get 37 state legislatures to go along with it to amend the constitution. They are still running against FDR and his policies, but they shot themselves in the foot as far as your postulation is concerned when they passed the 22nd amendment.
i understand. you think that it is going to happen the straight way.
all of that is off the table now.
you don't want to consider that possibility. i understand.
we are in a new arena. whatever you think to have been the law, will not be.
i have been here. state decisis. but when the friends of bush are the defendants, that principle gets tossed away.
pay attention. watch your ass. watch how the principles of the law become transformed.
oh, i could be wrong. not.
First thing you need to do is change the name. Truth in advertising demands it.
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