I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
i completely agree. i think there should be the goal of complete turnover for the midterm elections.
no matter how unlikely, its a necessary fight in every single state. the harder we fight in midterms the better shape we are for the next election.
the dem party should identify candidates for each race now, and start the quiet fundraising and grassroots support building.
lets stick it to em, 2 years and counting until a democratic congress.
Exactly!
Here is an excellent A Call to Arms!
Have you been drinking again? (slap....)
Atrios:
I hear you (metaphorically, that is; I didn't have the radio on).
My question is: do you see any shift within the media? Any sense that things have just gone to darn far to the right? Is Bush's pass ever going to get revoked by the librul media?
They practically fellated Bush at the press conference this morning.
that's party line shit.
there's a fascist coup going on.
are the wise men of our country going to do legal radical things to restore the checks and balances?
it would be possible to isolate the right if moderate repubs join us. literally. to save the republic.
the whole world is watching.
the house alone has the power to impeach the president...
A friend of mine and I have already pledged to work like mine ponies for whoever runs against Santorum. I agree that we ought to take a short breather, but the sooner we get started again, the better shape we'll be in 2006. No time like the present, and all that guff.
Ixnay on buying xmas gifts. Make things or give the gift of time. Very sad, but everyone has to stay out of malls so they dont catch the flu this year. Avoid red state malls especially. Red state flu
We need to learn to punish bad reporters the way they do.
the more I think about this, the more Reid pisses me off.
that's party line shit.
there's a fascist coup going on.
are the wise men of our country going to do legal radical things to restore the checks and balances?
it would be possible to isolate the right if moderate repubs join us. literally. to save the republic.
the whole world is watching.
Blogwhoring, but click homepage for 20 things we need to keep doing to get back our country.
And, I'll be working one weekend a month every month to register new voters in VA. We shouldn't wait until just before an election when they can "lose" the registrations and then claim it's too late. Who's with me? Red State flu and one weekend a month of registering voters.
Besides, it's the holiday season. Rest a bit. Buy your kids some presents. Relax.
Enjoy some of Americas vacation spots....
Unless we ensure that our votes are counted and accurately tallied, all our work will be a waste of time. Our first priority should be this.
Jake & Hecate. They are wise and good.
Soros, Turner and other progressives need to pool their money and purchase CNN and turn it into the liberal media so many on the right claim it to be.
We need our version of faux ... with no apologies.
.
Oh, and we really should be dealing with those pesky no-receipt/no-audit trail voting machines before 2006. Kind of difficult to win elections if the machinery is rigged on the other side's favor, si?
TruVote has what appears to be a wonderful product -- you should check them out and start urging your state Boards of Election to look into purchasing them. Even better, get on the Election Board and buy them yourselves.
Chafffe, Snowe, Specter, Collins .. and one more, could neutralize these guys ASAP. They have no power and no future if they remain Republicans. Time to step into the limelight and protect the country.
If they dont agree, just have them watch Bush's press conference over and over until they get the picture.
Atrios - absolutely no mention from you about possiblity of a theft? (Maybe you mentioned it on the radio - I missed the show) Are you waiting for something, or do you really not consider it a possiblity?
Sure, could be denial+conspiracy+sour grapes. . . but there certainly are too many loose ends swinging in the wind. Occam's (?) Razor and all that
Unless we ensure that our votes are counted and accurately tallied, all our work will be a waste of time. Our first priority should be this.
I would say Amen, but I'm mad at God.
I think we also look into keeping up some low-level "background noise" advertizing in the years between elections. You've seen those anti-choice ads from, what is it, Veritas?, with the black woman saying how she knows what fighting for rights is, blah blah blah. They don't just play those during election years, they play those all through the cycle, and it gets a message out there into the psyche that the politicians can tie into come election time, in a way that a few months of focused bombardment can't match. I'm not sure, organizationally, if this would be something for the 527s or more traditional groups, non-profits, or what, but I do think somebody needs to do it, or we'll keep getting screwed like this.
Yes -- Dems must organize for upcoming elections. But, if there is any way to do it, grassroots blogger and other Dems have to figure out a way to hold off the most serious, long term excesses of the new Congress and Presidency. A far right Court can invalidate legislation passed by (we hope) Dem. Congresses of the future.
Thus, most importantly, confirmation of right wing judges at the Supreme Court and Circuit Court level must be held back. I'm not sure how this can be accomplished, except to put pressure on Democrats to filibuster any nominee who is clearly far right. (E.g., promise to support a primary challenge if they don't support a filibuster; or reward filibusterers with contributions)
And that's another thing. why on earth with all th money alloted after 2k to improve voting does anyone have to spend hours! in line to vote?
Some thoughts on 2006...
We need to take a page out of the Newt Gingrich playbook and develop a Democratic "Contract with America".
The New Democratic Covenant.
A document that sets forth the guiding principles of the New Democratic Party. In it we need pay homage to the liberal past, but we also need to embrace new ideas and stake a claim to bold new initiatives. We need to steal ground abandoned by the Republicans.
Every Democrat of note needs to sign off on this New Democratic Covenant and use as a framework for their campaigns, or they will be denied DNC funds or campaign help.
Ideas, some of them are obviously crap....
Preamble...
A statement of Democratic Values grounded in the American and Judeo Christian tradition to include Diversity, Hard Work, Shared Burden, Love of Neighbor, Tolerance, Privacy, Rule of Law, Equality, Respect for Human Dignity, Honesty, Faith and Value of all Life worldwide. etc. This will be the basis of a series of TV commercials to run from now until 2006 to rehabilitate the Democratic Party's image among people of faith. Use party stars, and end each commercial with 'We are the new Democratic Party'.
1. Balanced Budgets on State and Federal Levels. We will pursue a balanced budget amendment.
2. Pursue Government that is as small and efficient as possible to meet our needs.
3. Organize a new branch of service, The Elite Force. The best equipped, best trained, most quickly deployable force in the world specifically charged with destroying terror cells world wide. This service, while small, will be the best of the best and will be able to recruit from the Navy, Air Force and Marines with no questions asked.
4. Develop the finest intelligence service in the world equipped with the best technology in the world supplemented by a new emphasis on human intelligence.
5. Enact a new era of American leadership in the world that seeks to end the threat of terror through shared intelligence, pre-approval of air space usage and military
facilities with 10 minute notification, coordinated crack downs on sources of terror funding and immediate notification of terror cell detection.
6. Require 3/5 of Congress to approve income tax increases at the State and Federal Levels with exceptions during National Emergencies.
7. No Tax Cuts without corresponding cuts in spending, unless CBO agrees they are revenue neutral.
8. Stop the flow of high paying jobs offshore by punishing companies that due so with higher taxes.
9. End off-shore tax havens and crack down on corporate malfeasance.
10. Enact Sweeping Environmental protection with special attention paid to those pollutants that contribute to global warming.
11. Pursue Energy Independence through Clean Renewable sources and a new get tough era of conservation.
by the way - would someone be so kind as to instruct me in how to hyperlink something to a post?
Thanx
Dick Morris says exit polls are NEVER wrong and blames the liberal media for tampering with the results.
http://www.thehill.com/morris/11...ris/
110404.aspx
Hey, Dick: Right church, wrong pew.
Here is an idea I'd just like to toss out....
What if some of these outside the Democratic Party groups that ran anti-Bush ads before the election kept running them now. I mean keep running the ads indefinately. I know it would be expensive but when has this ever happened before? I know I would donate to that effort.
Yes -- Dems must organize for upcoming elections. But, if there is any way to do it, grassroots blogger and other Dems have to figure out a way to hold off the most serious, long term excesses of the new Congress and Presidency. A far right Court can invalidate legislation passed by (we hope) Dem. Congresses of the future.
Thus, most importantly, confirmation of right wing judges at the Supreme Court and Circuit Court level must be held back. I'm not sure how this can be accomplished, except to put pressure on Democrats to filibuster any nominee who is clearly far right. (E.g., promise to support a primary challenge if they don't support a filibuster; or reward filibusterers with contributions)
I think the election should be considered stolen.
We can't have a clear idea of what to do unless we are clear-minded
about the facts. The exit polls and the vote counts are out-of-synch.
That means either the exit poll methodology has some problem, or the
voting mechanism has some problem. When you look at the two systems,
the e-voting mechanism with no paper trail (or "BBV -Black Box Voting
website:www.blackboxvoting.org) is obviously, thoroughgoingly unreliable
and easily manipulated, especially by the purveyor of the system, e.g.
Diebold. The connections between the management of these companies and
Christian Dominionists who want to abolish democracy have been
demonstrated. Their connections to the Bush regime are also verifiable.
In a criminal murder case, you look for motive, opportunity, and the
availability of a weapon. Here we have motive (Dominionism and
Bushism), opportunity (involvement in the election process as
seller/maintainer of the systems), and the weapon (management's control
of the mechanism with no oversight by the public). Given this, when
looking at whether it's the exit poll methods or the voting methods,
there should be no doubt that the voting mechanism is the better place
to look for leads.
I've had problems getting people to register this danger. Now is the
time to bring it up, because people are focused. Kerry should have left
the vote question open to focus more energy on this. He may have a hard
time believing it, but maybe this criminal case metaphor might help. We
also need to be clear that this should inform how we think of how we
respond to this election. If we lost because our message didn't
resonate, that's one thing. If we lost because the vote was literally
stolen, that's entirely another. We have to be clear - it's very, very
likely the presidency was stolen.
Dean has been sensible as hell- he's been out the promoting candidates down ballot and giving them support.
I'd love to see him run the party.
But MandateMyAss is correct- it doesn't matter what we do if they can rig the election with hackable machines that not only don't leave a papertrail, they don't leave an audit trail either.
The rethugs will fight this, that's the first place we should fight.
I was just chatting with a friend and he said Bush definitely won't be walking at the inagural parade. In fact, they may have him in a Stryker vehicle or maybe they'll use a body double. Still, wouldn't it be great if thousands of people showed up and lined the parade route and when stupid, I mean Bush, rode by we'd all throw our right arms skyward and shout "sieg heil". Can you imagine that on the news, a whole 2 miles of people saluting the new Fuhrer.......then we'd egg his car! Man, that would make me feel so good I might even forget about having lost my country on Nov 2nd.
Oh, I almost forgot............hiya Mr.Ashcroft
"Soros, Turner and other progressives need to pool their money and purchase CNN"
No. Purchase Diebold. Let's hear the hue and cry from the other side then...
I'm finding it difficult to relax until after the holidays. Bush believes he's been given a man-date from the "moral values" group, who appear to be more concerned about Janet Jackson's breast and gay marriage than they are about losing their sons and daughters in an unnecessary war they were lied into.
The Bush administration terrifies me.
Job one is to turn off cable news. If they want to suck up to the right wing Mandate people, let that where they get their audience.
You know ... people who don't actually follow news.
(Watchdoggers can follow transcripts -- takes less time and you can still have the same outrage.)
Soros, Turner and other progressives need to pool their money and purchase CNN and turn it into the liberal media so many on the right claim it to be.
We need our version of faux ... with no apologies.
This is so stupid as to be unworthy of comment.
Soros would do better by paying Democrat kids in Ohio's college tuitions. Be cheaper too.
We don't need some "liberal" (whatever that word even means anymore) media outlet. The whole idea is retarded. Lefties know where to get their news, and righties ain't gonna listen to ya. Sorry, ain't gonna happen.
But if you're serious about swinging a few states, there are ways to do it.
Like moving there. A massive organization to coordinate people moving into Ohio to register to vote might work. Or AZ, or even Florida.
But seriously, Soros or other rich folk could start Democratic College Funds for poor kids in swing states. That would help.
I'm truly not worried. Lived through Raygun, I figure I can survive Bush II.
Still pissed at Kerry, through. I don't care if you've got rock-solid info on how the Provisional Ballots would have gone. You count those fucking votes and go down like a snarling dog.
The people who spent shoe leather on your campaign deserve it.
I will never vote for that man again. Sorry.
I plan to listen to Beethoven's fifth, especially the second movement
Somebody in here posted a list of all the people in the Senate up for re-elction in 2006 which will be useful.
I was wondering if anyone had a list of Governor's offices up for re-election or that will be open seats in 2006.
The only ones that I know of are Florida, where I THINK Jeb is term limited and NY (Pataki, term limits?) Texas (Rick "I am not gay" Perry) and Arkansas (Rev.Gov. Huckabee term limited). Those the only ones I know for sure. Oh, and California.
Oh yeah, we'd all need little black pocket combs too!
The obvious thing to me is that the Anti-War movement must resume after having been self-censored to not interfere with the Kerry campaign.
I think continued efforts to reform the Democrat party are a waste of time and energy.
Voting machines with verifyable paper trails are an absolute must. Without that, the rest of it is a waste of time.
Not sure how many of you are familiar with Dean's Democracy for America. But he HAS been working to take our country back by supporting local and national candidates everywhere with the backing of the great grassroots of DFA.
In this past election, 1/3 of the Dean Dozens won their elections - a great rate of return considering many of these people were running for office for the first time.
Small bites. Small bites.
If you're interested in joining -
www.deanforamerica.com
or if you're interested in getting inspired -
www.blogforamerica.com
I'm as angry as any of you. I think that Bush is a criminal, plain and simple. But among the many things I'd like to see happen is one simple idea: I'd like to see the end of the demonizing of liberals. I don't know what it would take, but liberal ideas are good ideas. Many people support them but don't realize it. There are elements of humanist, liberal thought in the three major religions, in the history of most nation-states, in the philosophies of great and respected thinkers.
I don't know how to do this. Someone said of this election, "Face it, there are more of them than there are of us." But we can turn some of them, can't we?
The Rethugs are going to live on the slush of defense contracts and arms deals. They'll have billions to spend to keep us out of power while they enrich themselves. Delay's the exchequer. He's going to replace the moderates this year, even if the swear an oath of fealty to the prez. It'll be one big family of illegal deals, cash and 'omerta.'
To create a link:
[a href="http://www.whateveryouwant.com/"] link to whateveryouwant.com![/a]
Replace brackets [ ] with "greater than" and "less than" signs. An easy alternative - put your link in the URL field and tell people to click on the homepage for the link.
Not sure I agree with the comment that there is not much we can do between now and January.
I think we need to work hard to keep or push down Bush’s approval ratings . . soften him up for the Supreme Court battle that is sure to come early next year. He can not claim a mandate if his approval ratings remain low. One way to start is to create the novel concept of the “November Surprise” . . . that is every bit of news that comes out in the next month (e.g. raising the debt ceiling; any detail of his Social Security plan that was not spelled out pre-vote, Iraq costs and troops, etc.) becomes a November Surprise and therefor deligitimizes the election and any claim of mandate . . . January 20: “Mr. President, how can you claim a mandate or political capital when your approval rating is 48% . . . the lowest of XXXXYYYZZZ ” . . . “November was a month of surprises for much of the nation . . and they don’t like what they are hearing . . Bush approval ratings are the lowest . . . .” . .
The obvious thing to me is that the Anti-War movement must resume after having been self-censored to not interfere with the Kerry campaign.
That much I can largely agree with, especially given that we're gearing up for yet another Fallujah conflict, and this one will likely produce higher casualties than we have seen since Vietnam.
to contemplate a possible future, i highly recommend everyone read "The Origins of the American Military Coup of 2012".
"The letter that follows takes us on a darkly imagined excursion into the future. A military coup has taken place in the United States--the year is 2012--and General Thomas E. T. Brutus, Commander-in-Chief of the Unified Armed Forces of the United States, now occupies the White House as permanent Military Plenipotentiary. His position has been ratified by a national referendum, though scattered disorders still prevail and arrests for acts of sedition are underway. A senior retired officer of the Unified Armed Forces, known here simply as Prisoner 222305759, is one of those arrested, having been convicted by court-martial for opposing the coup. Prior to his execution, he is able to smuggle out of prison a letter to an old War College classmate discussing the "Origins of the American Military Coup of 2012." In it, he argues that the coup was the outgrowth of trends visible as far back as 1992. These trends were the massive diversion of military forces to civilian uses, the monolithic unification of the armed forces, and the insularity of the military community. His letter survives and is here presented verbatim."
http://carlisle-www.army.mil/usa...1992/
dunlap.htm
Monkey, I agree. Kerry gave in so quickly it was unbelievable. Why?? I wonder what Bill Clinton would have recommended.
sukabi said in another thread:
"That's what I've been saying for the last 2 days, they want us HATING the red states because then we aren't looking at the PROCESS. This election was DIEBOLDED. The information is out there and is being collected. The "reaching out" and letting go is bullshit designed to keep us at each others throats.
Although there are some real nutjobs out there, they are NOT the majority."
Unquestionably on point. If people would get away from thoughts like the media says this or that, that would be a good first step.
The next step is start working on paper ballets in all 50 states before the next election.
While getting step 2 going start hitting them where they claim to live, in the wallet. When Asia and the EU start dumping US $ for real, along with W. raising the debt ceiling, things are going to get real ugly on the economic front for the "little people". As you should know, W. and his group don't have much economic sense. So serious attention should be focused on what can be done to shore up our economy. Suggestion - Start looking at the Fed. Is it your friend??
There are many ways to break the bunch in "power". The people are pissed. Just start the ball rolling and you'll be amazed at what will happen quickly.
If you figure out how to *work* the money angle, you can take the rest easily.
Sleeping giant's got his eyes open for the first time in 50+ years. Oh shit. 
we need to get rid of these electronic voting machines. also we need to start a new american tradition: intense scrutiny of every election anywhere in the country. during the voting and during the counting. this thing where the teeeveee stations say who won and that's that is no good. examination of elections for evidence of fraud should be sop.
Don't stop me I'm rolling.............
If Dean had been the candidate at least we know he would have called Bush a lying rat bastard to his face. Harry Truman once called Nixon a "liar a cheat and a thief" in public. I think when you're dealing with a bunch like the Bushies ya just have to call em out and let the chips fall where they may.
And I'm sure Dean would have had a special word for Condeleeza Rice, something starting with a C perhaps............
Ok, I'm done ............for now!
desert donkey -- yes, having the senate majority leadership could be very interesting, and the committee chairs, too.
the moderate republicans are very similar to us these days, and very respectful of preserving the republic.
You're kidding!!!!! Right?
When are you people going to see that the American majority believe in moral values over ANYTHING else first and all else is second. That's the difference between you and your followers, and the rest of us. It wasn't enough that Pres. Bush was re-elected by the states, nor does it seem to be enough he garnered the popular vote too. You people really take the cake, you know that?
Unless we ensure that our votes are counted and accurately tallied, all our work will be a waste of time. Our first priority should be this.
I agree-I just can't get past these #'s I am seeing with the florida election results. It is obvious.
all the repub. percentages that are up are with the Diebold machines. up 712% for reps -64% dems-when the area is 88% registered dems and 7% registered repubs. Come on-A vote for Kerry went to Bush and a vote for Bush went to Kerry. This was already reported with these machines.
Check the #'s out
http://ustogether.org/
Florida_El...da_Election.htm
I'd like to see the end of the demonizing of liberals.
We all would, but it is a theme that works for them.
I think what we need to do is take a page from their playbook and define some issues and take stands on them and fight to the end.
Americans respect those who take strong stands even when they don't agree with them.
One of our biggest problems is also one of our greatest strengths. We are a big tent. But being a big tent means we disagree between ourselves all the time and they make us look foolish and weak.
They are a small tent and agree on almost everything.
OT - Order your burkas now.
You might want to pass this information along to your wives/daughters/other female relatives and friends. I say order now before demand and prices go up. Available in the following lovely colors: royal blue, imperial purple and, of course, basic black.
We’ll probably need them by the end of next year, after the Far Right Loons finish instituting their fundamentalist “Christian” theocracy and taking away all of women’s rights.
Order Burkas here
Hey hey!
You crazy? We got 2 run-offs in Louisiana!
http://blog.dccc.org/mt/archives...ves/
001589.html
(drop a dime in the donation link at the bottom of the post)
re:lived through reagan. ronnie was conservative, dull and aloof, but he didn't think he was an instrument of god. bush 43 may or may not, but his base does so he'll have to play to them, and they are dangerous. read neiwert.
The election was stolen.
Steve,
Your "November surprise" meme is one of the most brilliant suggestions I've seen.
Rorschach's comment directly below yours, on the upcoming Fallujah offensive, is a good example. The press was buzzing with rumors that Bush was delaying a major offensive in Iraq until after the election. Those rumors turned out to be true.
Spot on, A. We need to recognize both the strengths and the limitations of the internet. It's an unparalleled resource for information and organization, but it's no substitute for the street war.
And I would like to echo Kos in saying Dean for DNC Chair.
"When are you people going to see that the American majority believe in moral values over ANYTHING else first and all else is second"
There is nothing either "moral" or "valuable" in what your "president" says, does, or thinks.
He is a gimp. You are a dolt. Begone!
.
Enjoy some of Americas vacation spots....
johnx
i always enjoyed the Red River Valley;
i still cry when Tom Joad dances with his mom at labor camp...
Monkey = moron
Also, building on what Jake said, we need desperately to reframe the debate. We need to show that our position is morally superior. And, though it may make the secular humanists amongst us uncomfortable, it might not hurt to frame the debate in religious terms. There are a hell of a lot of Christians in this country, and it does us no good to alienate them.
well one thing we can count on is this pack of psychos will run with their little man date and try to ram through their extremist agenda. this will be bad for the party stars they rolled out this year in order to mask their true agenda, moderates like guliani, mccain, schwarzenegger, pataki, etc... they won't be able to represent whatever ideological monster the republican party turns into, no matter what crap comes out of their mouths from now on, so we probably won't have to deal with them in the future.
i don't think a majority of true conservatives will be comfortable with the future republican party, and doubt the newly-emboldened extremist freakos will accept any kind of compromise. and we'll be ready to strike when the ideologues paint themselves into a corner.
in the meantime... i'm writing my representatives and telling them to give those jackasses hell. unify this fuckers ..|..
thuggin` thieves.
I mentioned this on another thread this morning, and I'm going to toss it out here too. Why not.
I don't think we can deal with Bush believers on a political level. I really think it's more like trying to deprogram a cult member.
For decades, Republicans have said "Liberals will..." and told their followers that we'd do something really mean and destructive. So of course, when we all started getting angry and fighting them, it only confirmed in their minds that we're harmful, irrational loons.
We can't appeal to them on a rational level -- we scare them. They're like members a paranoid apocalyptic cult.
So... anyone know any good books on deprogramming cult members that we could read?
It wasn't enough that Pres. Bush was re-elected by the states, nor does it seem to be enough he garnered the popular vote too. You people really take the cake, you know that?
Yes, how clever of the GOP to get a divisive ballot measure appealing to the homophobic instincts of the right wing base on the ballots in the swing states. That's what got out the vote for him. Gay hatred.
But yes, you are correct. He won. But you've been suckered. He will NEVER give you what you want. Abortion will remain legal. Gays will get civil unions and be tolerated.
Why should he give you what you want? When the GOP would lose millions of votes once the issue went away? It's the goose that lays the golden eggs, and they will NEVER part with it as long as there are suckered like you who will come out to vote for them because you perceive them to be champions for some perverted version of the 1950s.
I for one am going to enjoy the next four years. Watching Bush fumble from failure to failure will be highly entertaining.
But never forget. He will betray you. You're not going to get what you want out of him.
PS: He's not really from Texas. He's a Yankee, just like his dad.
PPS: He doesn't go to church on Sunday either.
I agree with Steve. If we can find ways to keep W's approval ratings down, that would help.
I think the idea of making CNN a truly liberal newschannel is not a bad one. No, wingnuts won't watch it, but then, I don't watch Faux. The real goal of doing so would be to inject liberal memes into the public discourse with the same facility the wingnuts do theirs, and to give lefties the same sort of talking points ("DeLay is corrupt") that they get from talk radio, Hannity, O'Reilly, and so forth.
Here's another fight that won't wait, b/c lord knows the fundies aren't going to wait:
A mood of elation permeated the ranks of evangelical Christians in the United States yesterday as it became clear that the election marked a watershed moment for their chances of implementing a conservative moral agenda - above all on the issues of abortion and gay marriage.
is there a dem. on the nat'l stage now with the stones to point out that by delaying the falluja offensive to avoid pre-election casualties god's annointed regent is endangering the troops by giving the rebels more time to prep? or to escape?
Build the infastructure. Counter the echo chamber. If not already known, let me recommend another progressive radio program, Thom Hartmann, heard 12-3 pm EST, at thomhartmann.com. Intelligent, articulate conversation of today's serious issues with historical context. You need to check this out.
Red State flu and one weekend a month of registering voters.
Agreed. I'm not going to the mall. It's hard to avoid buying all gifts, so anything I buy will support a good cause, like buying olive oil from Palestinian farmers, or fair trade coffee, or shopping from the Unicef catalog.
When Kos was on AirAmericaRadio it was mentioned that to get a recount in Ohio you only needed to have 5 people in each county submit a request for a recount.
Any more info on this?
We need to shift and transform the conversation. As long as we stay with the left vs. right conversation we will regress.
Polarity means tension. To get rid of tension you let go of your side, and there is no more tension!
The strategy is to ask deeper questions. Invite your peers to a dialog. Be a lover of wisdom. Prepare to be prepared to deal with a lot of irrationality.
Beliefs imply not knowing. They also imply fearfulness. Some one who is fearful needs to be felt comfortable otherwise they won’t let go. Mastering this is an art, but also a beautiful and meaningful endeavor.
Even mindedness, non violence and striving for knowledge and the unknown are strategies that can unite us all.
Be mindful, challenge yourself, challenge the frozen ideas on the left or the right. The resonance of our endeavor will transform or destroy the world. Nature is impartial and accepts all. Our existence is contingent on sustained emergence of our civilization. It is up to us to sustain it.
I plan to listen to Beethoven's fifth, especially the second movement
56k
You gotta get the last movement in there. It's the triumph over adversity translated into C Major.
The Exit Polls were right. Check out the following internet web site:
http://ustogether.org/
Florida_El...da_Election.htm
It demonstrates the actual improbability of the recent Florida Presidential vote. For those who do not completely understand the chart, I'll try to explain a little. I sure hope I can remember everything I've learned in Statistics class.
For example, take the highly Democratic Calhoun County:
According to the official voter registration records, there are 11.9% Republican voters, 82.4% Democratic voters, and 5.7% Independent voters.
Altogether, in Tuesday's election a total of 5,961 residents voted. Furthermore, if everyone had just voted party lines, then the expected vote should have been as follows: Republicans 709 votes and Democrats 4,911 votes. Again, this county has a 82.4% Democratic registration.
However, that is not the way it turned out. Instead there was a highly inflated 3,780 Bush vote, and a greatly reduced 2,116 Democrat vote.
Those huge turnaround numbers represent a 433.2% Bush increase anormality and a 56.9% Kerry decrease anormality. In terms of a final Florida vote count, there is a differential of nearly 6,000 total votes, and this is just for one relatively small Florida county.
What are the probablities of an enormous shift such as this? Even the heavily Republican counties had nowhere near this kind of Democartic voter shift. Check out the numbers for yourself.
Also check out some of the other counties. You have the same kinds of implausible voter shifts. But note that the greatest shifts occur in the small counties. Could this be because there are fewer people around to watch the people assessing the final vote numbers that were ultimately sent to the Florida Registrar of Voters?
It is in those small counties where highly knowledgeable computer experts should be breaking down the machines and checking out exactly what happened on Tuesday.
Anyway, these stats don't lie.
BTW: I'm from Massachusetts, and I believe Kerry gave up way too early. We should have at least had an opportunity to check out these Diebold computers.
Regina (Mason) Coburn,
More Americans voted against George Bush than any sitting president in history.
+3% of popular vote. 3 is a pretty small number.
There are a hell of a lot of Christians in this country, and it does us no good to alienate them.
geor3ge
Anything you do, they will alienate you, regardless. The 'Murkan people are ignorant and it's reached critical mass. Our Republic will now survive despite your best puny efforts.
Stolen election? The evidence is accumulating.
Jeff Wells has a must read post on this as well. I have no idea where he finds some of his links, but there are several really striking discrepancies.
Namely this and this.
There's no way the media will talk about this, of course, unless it is to mock people who promote these ideas as conspiracists. (The one major media person who might talk about this is Paul Krugman, but we won't hold our breath.)
But bottom line-- the data are the data, and together it can't all be explained away so easily. We are talking vote fraud here. One of the most serious breaches of faith and violations of law that a government official can ever commit.
And it's not like we think the Bush administration is so ethical they would never resort to stealing a few votes via unverifiable voting systems. They can't make it too obvious of course, all they need is a few percentage points to put them over the top.
The closing of the American mind is now complete.
Regina,
are all these people who've turned out against gay marriage and abortion going to care about that when Osama bin Laden attacks and this time it affects them?
Juat because a lot of people aren't paying attention doesn't mean that our need to get along with the world for our mutual benefit goes away.
we've been torturers and worse to people who don't look like us, and they're pissed.
the enemy is at the gate, and they're not gay fantasies, they're well-armed terrorists who seemed to give the people a chance to say, "bush doesn't represent our views."
Now we've said he does. these terrorists weren't talking about gay marriage. they wanted to know if could choose a peaceful path with the rest of the world.
"we" said no.
Pray hard, sister.
now = not
Over at Yahoo News, Bush says F___ You Democrats.
Contending Americans have embraced his conservative agenda, President Bush pledged Thursday to aggressively pursue major changes in Social Security, the tax code and medical malpractice awards, working with Democrats if they are receptive and leaving them behind if they're not.
"I earned capital in the campaign, political capital, and now I intend to spend it," Bush said a day after a decisive victory...
Jo Public,
Like I said up thread - Figure out the money and you've got them. This can be done on a state by state basis.
Money is a simple key to unlocking the brainwashed masses. Everyone is about to get hit with financial reality real soon anyway, so why not start now before it gets really bad?
Another divisive issue, reforming the complicated U.S. tax system, is "going to take a lot of legwork to get something ready for a legislative package. I fully understand that," the president said. He has avoided specifics but has said ideas such as a national sales tax deserve study.
Here it comes - a "flat tax".
Hope all those fundies and "security moms" enjoy their 12 percent mortgage interest rates that they can no longer write off after Bush fucks the economy, drives up interest rates and takes away the cornerstone of middle class perks.
I am at such a fucking loss right now. Case in point: i've always had a prudish distaste for dropping a lot of "fuck"s and "fucking"s in a post -- but who the fuck cares now?
I'm fallin' apart here.
Haven't read a newspaper in two days. First time since election day I've even looked at Atrios. Finally watched "The Daily Show" tonight, but the laughter kept catching in my throat. I've given in to despair, and I hate myself for it.
When Fidel was leading the rebels in the mountains of Cuba, he told them there were only three crimes punishable by death: treason, desertion -- and defeatism. Good thing he's laid up, or he'd be stalking guys like me right now, carbine in hand.
But sweet CHRIST what a prospect!!
A Supreme Court stuffed with Scalias and Thomases! An incredibly well-funded propaganda machine convincing people, when things inevitably get worse and worse, that the only solution is to move ever farther rightward! The beast starved -- so long, Medicare! Tickety-tock, Social Security! Hello, super-sized-banana republic! After that, who knows? Another terrorist attack allowed to happen (I truly believe these people are capable of ANYTHING now) so Bush can assume dictatorial powers! Why not? Every little neocon wet dream to cum true!!!
I agree,Atrios,The time is 2005.But I think there are things we can do while we rest.
The media really is a problem,did anyone notice how many reporters were waring red that night?One of them was even asked,of course the reporter changed the subject as fast as she could.
What we ought to be doing while talking with strangers,neighbors,aquaintences and so forth is point out some little details about the media that are not otherwise noticved by the uninformed.Show the masses instead of telling them.
I plan on giving cues as to what to look for when watching the "news" to those I talk to,just to get the ball rolling in a direction that gives us hope.
We all need to be doing something like this.
The media is as much of an enemy as our government is now,and we need to be thinking along these lines.
I am ready to move on and work toward getting better.
This blog has helped me to make some realisatioins.I dont think I am going to move out of the country now.But I reserve the right to change my decision.
Yes, it was stolen. If numbers don't grab you, there are witnesses. I'm one.
And only the Congressional Black Caucus seems committed to doing anything about that theft. So my proposal would have to include working with them.
Also, Howard Dean.
What would also be helpful, at least from my primary concern, is to write your local democratic congressman, if any, and let them know you will support them 100% if they filibuster the president's judicial nominees.
Let them know that despite the election, Bush still did not win over more than half the country. He lost due to a few scant issues that brought the bigots out to vote more than those who simply hated Bush.
Let them know that there is no way the republicans can accuse them of going against the will of the people should they decide to filibuster.
Those that might be upset are the ones that voted against democrats and probably never will vote for a democrat so why bother upsetting them?
The battle lines have been drawn. They will not choose to be civil so neither should we. We can be as polite as need be but when push comes to shove we need to go for the throat and filibuster every judicial nominee that doesn't satisfy democratic concerns.
That is what I am concerned about right now.
Right now I'm worried that some religious whacko from the south is going to start forcing people to pray to their burnt lamb loving god who sees fit to hate shrimp but doesn;t let that stop him from going about creating it? Really nice logic there guys.
MYOB'
.
Major Tom: Nice point. I just got done looking at the numbers. These counties are a statistical impossiblity, if the numbers provided are indeed correct. We're talking way more of an outlier than the Buchanan fiasco of 2000. We don't even need to necessarily check the machines, all you have to do is some basic statistical analysis to show how much of an outlier those counties are.
TDS is on!
I absolutely agree that we have got to attack this demonization of liberals. I moved to Texas this year and have been shocked to see all of the tv ads that spit out the word liberal as though it were the worst thing in the world (an ad from The Club for Growth for Tom Delay, by the way, promised, "Principled, Conservative Leadership").
One idea I've had floating around: Jesus Was a Liberal. I don't know if any of you have read Emmet Fox' "Sermon on the Mount" but it is an inspiring analysis of one of the greatest texts in the bible. The ideas could not be more in keeping with Democratic principles or further away from Republican hatefulness (I'm sorry but I don't think Jesus would have laughed about a woman about to be executed, as Bush has done).
A Jesus Was a Liberal site/mini-movement might help reframe the debate on values. It probably wouldn't change the mind of too many Christian fundamentalists (and I'm not sure I'd want to take it into the churches of the deep south) but it might help some people--moderate voters, the mainstream media--to understand the inherent morality of liberalism.
Any thoughts?
While the DNC certainly used the internet as a cash cow, they had an incredibly clever phone bank application. From my blue state home, I'd log in on the net, get a list of potential volunteers/phone #s in swing states and make my calls on my cell phone for canvassers. This was a GREAT way to mobilize a community using the power of the internet.
We have one more year until the inevitable. The autumn of 2005 will usher in the fall of the Republic.
We wont save it.
Here in Wis, we don't have time to wait until after the holidays. We have February primaries and an April general election for all non-partisan offices (city councils, county boards, mayors, judges, school boards). Those are the "farm teams" for higher, partisan offices. The work starts Monday!
Here in Wis, we don't have time to wait until after the holidays. We have February primaries and an April general election for all non-partisan offices (city councils, county boards, mayors, judges, school boards). Those are the "farm teams" for higher, partisan offices. The work starts Monday!
OT - Michael Lerner has a great article on Common Dreams about a revitalized spirituality on the left.
For those of us who are so inclined . . . he maps out a way we reveal the hypocrisy of the shallow ones, and take ownership of the deep ethics that infuse our understanding (and these ethics permeate the left - "spiritual" folk or no - they're part of what define our humanity).
Thanks FeralLiberal - hope it worked!
I am at such a fucking loss right now. Case in point: i've always had a prudish distaste for dropping a lot of "fuck"s and "fucking"s in a post -- but who the fuck cares now?
I'm fallin' apart here.
Haven't read a newspaper in two days. First time since election day I've even looked at Atrios. Finally watched "The Daily Show" tonight, but the laughter kept catching in my throat. I've given in to despair, and I hate myself for it.
When Fidel was leading the rebels in the mountains of Cuba, he told them there were only three crimes punishable by death: treason, desertion -- and defeatism. Good thing he's laid up, or he'd be stalking guys like me right now, carbine in hand.
But sweet CHRIST what a prospect!!
A Supreme Court stuffed with Scalias and Thomases! An incredibly well-funded propaganda machine convincing people, when things inevitably get worse and worse, that the only solution is to move ever farther rightward! The beast starved -- so long, Medicare! Tickety-tock, Social Security! Hello, super-sized-banana republic! After that, who knows? Another terrorist attack allowed to happen (I truly believe these people are capable of ANYTHING now) so Bush can assume dictatorial powers! Why not? Every little neocon wet dream to cum true!!!
oops. I'll check the instructions again.
Gonzo activism? Count me in.
Studs Terkel said if the democrats allowed "W" to be elected we should just dissolve the party. That would be proof it is DOA. That's how I feel.
"W" had a record number of people show up on Tuesday to vote him out.
All those people are pissed off. That energy needs to be captured now before it dissapates.
I was more active in this campaign than any other in my life. I'm 44. Part of that was because GWB seemed such an obious disaster to me, but the other reason was the internet.
I found out I was not alone in my disgust and that is energizing. I participated in activism: petitions, email campaigns to congress, sending money to the Kerry campaign, the DNC, the Sierra Club, the NRDC. The internets made involvement so much more "facile".
We can't just focus on '06. Bushie expects to do all his damage by then. And he intends to do some damage. He knows he is a lame duck in two years.
Let's oganize! Gonzo activism. The Reality Based Party. Let's make it our "relijin". 21st century tactics. Half of America and the rest of the world can't be wrong.
oo. I'm getting worked up.
I plan to listen to Beethoven's fifth, especially the second movement
i plan to listen to Willie Nelson's StillMoving and drink a fifth...
i will be better on saturday....
ruin the honeymoon
no honeymoon this time.
approval ratings in the toilet.
oh and can we hit sinclair again?
just for fun?
Hunter -- the problem with things getting real ugly economically for people is that so many people will believe it's not Bush's, or the Republicans', fault.
And the worse things get, the more it'll feed into their persecution complex. And the more likely they'll be to blame outsiders and get more dependent on yahoos like Bush.
You make good points, of course. But I'm not talking about the economics so much as about the psychology of breaking up the whole "moral values" message machine. It's not about "Christianity" as most people know it -- Bush, and Republicans, have become a religion unto themselves here.
The obvious thing to me is that the Anti-War movement must resume after having been self-censored to not interfere with the Kerry campaign.
Yes, and it's good to see you back, rorschach.
What we need is the Fairness Doctrine back, but that's a long way off at best and idealism at worst.
Working over corporations wouldn't hurt either -- remember, there's the schizo break in Republicans (Big Money vs. Big Faith). You hit one, the other may or may not support that half.
Plus, we have the added bonus of letting the kids have the dangerous chemicals in the lab now. Bush is on a very dangerous path, and if Social Security dies because of what he's done, that'll be every bit as bad for his party as can be imagined...
20 Things We Must Do
Did anyone else notice that Texas was not the state that turned in the highest percentage of people voting for bush?
It's not much to be proud of but right now I'll take it.
We're not the biggest assholes in the country any more, woohoo
"Face it...there are more of them than there are of us".
I've been mulling this one over, and I don't think it's true. A lot of "them" were swayed by relentless and consistent advertising methods ('flip-flopper') and a general campaign of image by the right. These people don't think all that deeply, and they're up for grabs to whoever has the best marketing team. I hate K. Rove with a passion, but he's a marketing genius. We need our own version of him.
But the second thing that gives me thought is this: I think there might be many MORE avowed liberals now than ever before in my lifetime. When Clinton won, he appealed to the center, and that's how he was able to get broad-based support. Kerry's support, however, came from a very strong and active constituency, made of people who might have been far more moderate before 2000, 9/11, Iraq, and all the other fallout. The Great 49% -- (can we call ourselves the Forty-Niners?) -- are highly politicized now. I know a thousand times more now about the workings of government, issues, and campaign methodology than I did in 2000. We're all much more politically literate and much smarter. And Kerry got the 49% without really trying to coopt the center, but by trying to coalesce people around traditional Dem values like those outlined in the "Covenant" above.
So instead of having, say 25% committed Dems and 25% committed Repubs fighting over the remaining 50% of relatively uninformed voters in the center, we actually have maybe 40, 45% of strongly committed voters who support Democratic ideals despite republican villainization.
Hope that makes sense. Thanks to Dean, te previous four sad years, and ironically the Repugs themselves, there are MORE OF US THAN EVER before.
And now, we actually know what we're doing!
We'll see how far GWB's capital goes when the big bills come in.
"Face it...there are more of them than there are of us".
I've been mulling this one over, and I don't think it's true. A lot of "them" were swayed by relentless and consistent advertising methods ('flip-flopper') and a general campaign of image by the right. These people don't think all that deeply, and they're up for grabs to whoever has the best marketing team. I hate K. Rove with a passion, but he's a marketing genius. We need our own version of him.
But the second thing that gives me thought is this: I think there might be many MORE avowed liberals now than ever before in my lifetime. When Clinton won, he appealed to the center, and that's how he was able to get broad-based support. Kerry's support, however, came from a very strong and active constituency, made of people who might have been far more moderate before 2000, 9/11, Iraq, and all the other fallout. The Great 49% -- (can we call ourselves the Forty-Niners?) -- are highly politicized now. I know a thousand times more now about the workings of government, issues, and campaign methodology than I did in 2000. We're all much more politically literate and much smarter. And Kerry got the 49% without really trying to coopt the center, but by trying to coalesce people around traditional Dem values like those outlined in the "Covenant" above.
So instead of having, say 25% committed Dems and 25% committed Repubs fighting over the remaining 50% of relatively uninformed voters in the center, we actually have maybe 40, 45% of strongly committed voters who support Democratic ideals despite republican villainization.
Hope that makes sense. Thanks to Dean, te previous four sad years, and ironically the Repugs themselves, there are MORE OF US THAN EVER before.
And now, we actually know what we're doing!
I absolutely agree that we have got to attack this demonization of liberals.
...Read my rather long boring post above. Newt Gingrich's contract with America ushered in a Republican Revolution. We need a radical plan of our own, a party wide initiative...
Click to See Above
"the other day the voice of the people was heard...but I'm not going to try and imitate that voice out of respect for the mentally retarded"
-Lewis Black
"I earned capital in the campaign, political capital, and now I intend to spend it," Bush said a day after a decisive victory...
Pay close attention. This is Bush's Achilles' heal: mistaking a slim majority for a "man date" (as you so poetically put it) and seriously misunderestimating the power of a pissed off opposition.
http://www.tompaine.com/articles.../
kerry_won_.php
Bush 2-to-1 in a mostly hispanic district in New Mexico. Read the quote from the Republican election official.
Karin--
Thank you for the welcome back! It's nice to be missed. Between work and a mysterious illness and some conferences, I've been out of it one way or another for a while now. But hopefully am getting back on track...
We have one more year until the inevitable. The autumn of 2005 will usher in the fall of the Republic.
We wont save it.
Incognito | Email | Homepage | 11.04.04 - 11:08 pm | #
Incog' are you referring to that farce about the time traveller who claimed he was travelling back in time to retrieve computer equipment to help them rebuild the country?
MYOB'
.
West Virginia was once so reliably Democratic that they voted for Carter over Reagan in 1980. They voted for Dukakis over Bush. Clinton won WV by 15 points in 1996.
We lost it by THIRTEEN POINTS this year. it might as well have been Utah. Edwards campaigned there heavily, using his "connection" with rural voters. Nice job, Breck Girl.
If we can't win places like West Virginia (Once rock-solid Dem), Arkansas (Home of Clinton), or Missouri (Once an actual swing state), we are not a national party. We are a punching bag. We would be like the NDP in Canada or the Liberal Dems in Britain- a regional party that will never, ever hold power.
We lost our VP nominee's state by TWELVE POINTS this year. I'm pretty sure that the GOP nominates people who can carry their own fucking states. We should feel humiliated.
No president has won the election plus gained House and Senate seats since THE 1920S. Bush did. Our strategies sucked ass. We literally lost to a drooling mental incompetent in Kentucky. Read that again: Republican can now beat us with senile candidates. WE NEED BETTER MANAGEMENT.
The road to Mars is paved through West Virginia. Time to dig some coal, bitches.
Gameplan for 2006:
1. Win as many statehouse seats as possible, in all 50 states. We should never let redistricting punk us EVER AGAIN.
2. Knock out GOP governors and mayors in blue states. Knock out the RINOS in Blue states and replace them with Democrats.
3. A Democratic Manifesto that clearly states what we are about and shows respect for Red America, who we presumably want and need to vote for us.
4. Try hard to bring old-style Republicans into our party. They do not like Bush or the Christian Right. Make their unhappiness our ally, like the GOP did to the Dixiecrats. They may not be large in number, but chip, chip, chip away at their coalition. 100% of Bush voters are not "values" types. Peel off balanced budgeters, internationalists, etc.
Now watch everyone call me a troll and an asshole.
But, the truth is there isn't all that much that can be done between now and inauguration day.
W R O N G M E S S A G E !!
There's more to do than we could ever get done.
But there's lots we can do and lots who want to do it. Others want and need a break. That's fine. But wars don't recognize holidays and this is a war. The Inaguration should be the day we tie the dead chicked around the GOP's neck.
There is an illusion that we are all of united mind on how to deal with all of this or what the future should be all about.
I know what I was hoping for with President Kerry.
However now I need to live and strategize in a world not defined by GOP hypocrisy or Leftist polemic.
I am going to limit my media sources and try to keep in touch with the truth.
We have one more year until the inevitable. The autumn of 2005 will usher in the fall of the Republic.
We wont save it.
Incognito | Email | Homepage | 11.04.04 - 11:08 pm | #
Incog' are you referring to that farce about the time traveller who claimed he was travelling back in time to retrieve computer equipment to help them rebuild the country?
MYOB'
.
Democracies are funny things. Parties become extreme (either left or right), because leaders get carried away with their own cleverness. This is true of any leader, but democracy exacerbates this. The Right reacts to the left (and vice-versa), not by becoming more moderate, but by becoming more extreme.
This is their version of "balance". But an extremist government only remains in balance because it's opposite party is balancing it.
A 51% "victory" made Bush appear legitimate. But, he is not legitimate, he is a dictator.
America is the new Myanmar.
Stop engaging in political debate with the republican party. Stop critisising them, stop talking about them, stop parsing them. Have NOTHING to do with them.
Let them rule their one-party state, exposed for all the world to see, as the fascist monstrosity that it is. A 51% victory for Bush looks like "democracy", but a 100% "victory" looks like a dictatorship.
.
Bwahahaha! So nice to see the loser liberals squirm and cry here.
Got three words for you: PERMANENT REPUBLICAN MAJORITY. Get used to it. The White House, the Senate, the House, the Supreme Court, and all but one of the circuit courts.
The Democratic Party is moribund. Get used to it.
The Republican echo chamber has beens spreading venimous, untrue ideas about us for two or three decades, if not longer. I have always just ignored these people but now I am more angry than I have ever been and will not take this crap from these bullying fascists. Someone asked if the media was realizing how right-wing this new junta is. No, they are just as idiotic, sycophantic, and clueless as they were last week, I'm afraid. They are all pushing the idea that the RED states are MORAL. This makes me coldly, unforgivingly furious and I will do everything I can to NEVER support anything associated with the media as it is now constituted, and I won't be visting any red states. Furthermore, I plan to support the "Fair Taxation" amendment to stop transfer payments to the Red states from my state. I am going to cancel my DISH satellite service and get local service only from Comcast. There is nothing particularly good about Comcast, but on their local package they offer CBC-Newsworld Internatinal and three PBS stations in my area.Plus it's wicked cheap.)
The point I really wanted to make before I started my rant is that we could try to reach out to moderate republicans. They have been fed a lot of bullshit about us and may not know that we as a group represent diverse views and are able to tolerate diverse views. (After all we're liberals, aren't we?) The minimum that binds us together is respect for the Constitution and the democratic process (I don't mean to imply that there isn't more binding us together than that, but those two things are very important. A moderate Republican should be able to feel comfortable with that.)
Let me say, I do not feel apologetic at all for my beliefs. I was a philosophy major and my favorite period was the Enlightenment. I loved studying epistemology and later political philosophy and the sociology of knowledge. I have complex views on how capitalism should be used in a democracy, but that is just the point, isn't it--capitalism should be used in a way that it helps and supports democracy. Democracy SHOULD NOT BE SUBVERTED BY THE NEEDS OF CAPITALISM.
So I am not apologizing at all for my strong liberal-left beliefs, I am just saying that a moderate Republican may not know that we are actually reasonable human beings that won't eat their young.
BUT I REFUSE to take crap about my morality from the likes of Paula Zahn.
Lone Star -- You're right, but the trouble is, the word "Liberal" will turn off the people we're trying to reach. It'll bypass their heads and go straight to their guts, and they'll tune out the message. Their first, and only, reaction will be "How dare you accuse Jesus of such a thing?"
It's stupid, but there it is. The same way it took a while for Repugs to fully demonize the word "Liberal," it'll take a while for us to fully take it back. Shock value won't work -- or rather, it will, but in Repugs' favor.
But I like your idea. Maybe saying, "Jesus helped the poor," or "Jesus hated war," or something. Issue by issue, until you've chipped away at the foundation of their Republican beliefs. Without them knowing it.
update on the voter turnout numbers from Florida that have been floating around all day: They've been sent on to Econometricians at UCLA, U Chicago, Harvard, Berkeley, Stanford and the University of Michigan. If something stinks they'll find it. More importantly, if something stinks they can get it published.
And only the Congressional Black Caucus seems committed to doing anything about that theft. So my proposal would have to include working with them.
Yes! The CBC is our friend.
What to do?
1) paper trails for electronic voting;
if we don't do this, we can forget the rest. In places where the "winners"
would be hesitant to change because their team won, run ads with huge pictures of Jesus and the phrase
"Jesus wouldn't cheat."
2) support blackboxvoting.org and
hope like hell someone comes up with
something big. The fix was in.
3) From now on, President Bush shall
be known as President Diebold. Use
it over and over and over.
This is a knife fight. It's time to
start heaping back some of what we've been taking for years.
As long as Republican Secretaries of State have access to untraceable easily-hackable electronic voting machines, no amount of registrations or campaigning or advertising will work.
The more they consolidate their power through outright theft, the more places will get these magical mystery machines, and on and on.
Let the healing begin, moonbats!
Tommorow brings the dawn of a new day for our great nation!
WE NEED BETTER MANAGEMENT
You don't think the black boxes were skimming the votes?
I absolutely agree that we have got to attack this demonization of liberals. I moved to Texas this year and have been shocked to see all of the tv ads that spit out the word liberal as though it were the worst thing in the world (an ad from The Club for Growth for Tom Delay, by the way, promised, "Principled, Conservative Leadership").
One idea I've had floating around: Jesus Was a Liberal. I don't know if any of you have read Emmet Fox' "Sermon on the Mount" but it is an inspiring analysis of one of the greatest texts in the bible. The ideas could not be more in keeping with Democratic principles or further away from Republican hatefulness (I'm sorry but I don't think Jesus would have laughed about a woman about to be executed, as Bush has done).
A Jesus Was a Liberal site/mini-movement might help reframe the debate on values. It probably wouldn't change the mind of too many Christian fundamentalists (and I'm not sure I'd want to take it into the churches of the deep south) but it might help some people--moderate voters, the mainstream media--to understand the inherent morality of liberalism.
Any thoughts?
kerry abandoned us
"Gordon", are you back again, you silly, pudgy, republican?
You must like coming here. I don't like you (you are creepy, "Gordon"...). You have no fiends here. But it's better than the crushing loneliness you feel, isn't it, "Gordon"?
Where are YOUR friends, ”Gordon”?
Oh. I forgot. I forgot that you have no friends. But you can't forget, can you "Gordon"?
Sad, lonely, "Gordon". No Friends.
I see people have been sniggering at you again. But, you knew they would, didn't you?
Yes. Everyone sniggers at you, "Gordon", don't they? Some do it to your face (women mostly), others do it behind your back. But they all snigger don't they, "Gordon"?
You are our Bitch, "Gordon".
Poor. Paunchy. Balding. "Gordon".
Trolls appear to have two settings: "Gloat" and "Whine".
How much longer before they go back to "whine" default?
"Gordon", are you back again, you silly, pudgy, republican?
You must like coming here. I don't like you (you are creepy, "Gordon"...). You have no fiends here. But it's better than the crushing loneliness you feel, isn't it, "Gordon"?
Where are YOUR friends, ”Gordon”?
Oh. I forgot. I forgot that you have no friends. But you can't forget, can you "Gordon"?
Sad, lonely, "Gordon". No Friends.
I see people have been sniggering at you again. But, you knew they would, didn't you?
Yes. Everyone sniggers at you, "Gordon", don't they? Some do it to your face (women mostly), others do it behind your back. But they all snigger don't they, "Gordon"?
You are our Bitch, "Gordon".
Poor. Paunchy. Balding. "Gordon".
"Gordon", are you back again, you silly, pudgy, republican?
You must like coming here. I don't like you (you are creepy, "Gordon"...). You have no fiends here. But it's better than the crushing loneliness you feel, isn't it, "Gordon"?
Where are YOUR friends, ”Gordon”?
Oh. I forgot. I forgot that you have no friends. But you can't forget, can you "Gordon"?
Sad, lonely, "Gordon". No Friends.
I see people have been sniggering at you again. But, you knew they would, didn't you?
Yes. Everyone sniggers at you, "Gordon", don't they? Some do it to your face (women mostly), others do it behind your back. But they all snigger don't they, "Gordon"?
You are our Bitch, "Gordon".
Poor. Paunchy. Balding. "Gordon".
"Gordon", are you back again, you silly, pudgy, republican?
You must like coming here. I don't like you (you are creepy, "Gordon"...). You have no fiends here. But it's better than the crushing loneliness you feel, isn't it, "Gordon"?
Where are YOUR friends, ”Gordon”?
Oh. I forgot. I forgot that you have no friends. But you can't forget, can you "Gordon"?
Sad, lonely, "Gordon". No Friends.
I see people have been sniggering at you again. But, you knew they would, didn't you?
Yes. Everyone sniggers at you, "Gordon", don't they? Some do it to your face (women mostly), others do it behind your back. But they all snigger don't they, "Gordon"?
You are our Bitch, "Gordon".
Poor. Paunchy. Balding. "Gordon".
"Gordon", are you back again, you silly, pudgy, republican?
You must like coming here. I don't like you (you are creepy, "Gordon"...). You have no fiends here. But it's better than the crushing loneliness you feel, isn't it, "Gordon"?
Where are YOUR friends, ”Gordon”?
Oh. I forgot. I forgot that you have no friends. But you can't forget, can you "Gordon"?
Sad, lonely, "Gordon". No Friends.
I see people have been sniggering at you again. But, you knew they would, didn't you?
Yes. Everyone sniggers at you, "Gordon", don't they? Some do it to your face (women mostly), others do it behind your back. But they all snigger don't they, "Gordon"?
You are our Bitch, "Gordon".
Poor. Paunchy. Balding. "Gordon".
"Gordon", are you back again, you silly, pudgy, republican?
You must like coming here. I don't like you (you are creepy, "Gordon"...). You have no fiends here. But it's better than the crushing loneliness you feel, isn't it, "Gordon"?
Where are YOUR friends, ”Gordon”?
Oh. I forgot. I forgot that you have no friends. But you can't forget, can you "Gordon"?
Sad, lonely, "Gordon". No Friends.
I see people have been sniggering at you again. But, you knew they would, didn't you?
Yes. Everyone sniggers at you, "Gordon", don't they? Some do it to your face (women mostly), others do it behind your back. But they all snigger don't they, "Gordon"?
You are our Bitch, "Gordon".
Poor. Paunchy. Balding. "Gordon".
Jo Public,
"the problem with things getting real ugly economically for people is that so many people will believe it's not Bush's, or the Republicans', fault.
And the worse things get, the more it'll feed into their persecution complex. And the more likely they'll be to blame outsiders and get more dependent on yahoos like Bush."
You know this (by what you've typed) just as well as I. If you notice what I'm advocating is doing the unexpected (by Karl and Krew), but mixing up the "game", and taking the debate and actions into the real of Money, not finance. Money, people claim to understand, finance they don't.
Money is a simple issue with tremendous impact. It's party less and master less. If this *can* become one of the critical focuses of attack, you've immediately got the attention of a large swath of those so called Republicans.
What I'm saying is change the game, they don't have the mental dexterity to adjust.
"Got three words for you: PERMANENT REPUBLICAN MAJORITY. Get used to it. The White House, the Senate, the House, the Supreme Court, and all but one of the circuit courts.
The Democratic Party is moribund. Get used to it."
I actually agree with this. Only difference is I do not think it is a good thing.
THere ARE more of them than there are of us. This election proved that:
1/2 of voter votes for Bush
+
1/2 of country is satisfied enough with Bush that they don't even go to the polls
=
3/4 of the country that either loves Bush or is pretty OK with him as president.
We are in a 25% minority. These are the facts. Denying them won't get us anywhere.
Blue states need to secede. Red states can stop mooching off of us for all time. I actually liked Atrios' Tax Fairness Act or whatver. I think it is a GOOD idea.
As Democrats wallow in the mire of Tuesday's electoral devastation, many are looking for silver linings in the clouds of the Republican trouncing. From record turnout, new voter registration, impressive fundraising, and the proliferation of liberal 527's, many progressives are finding solace.
Comforting as that might be during this time of mourning for progressives, this search for palliatives misses the real point of Tuesday's disaster and obscures the hard work we have to do. That is, Democrats fundamentally have neither a clear, coherent public philosophy nor simple, hard-hitting messages that the 21st century "infotainment" media require. Simply put, a fractured Democratic Party doesn't know its message or even its audience.
A brief survey of the blogosphere highlights the problem in our search for remedies. Katrina vanden Heuvel at The Nation praises a new "progressive infrastructure" and the need for "resistance" by finding "choke points" that could block at least some of the Bush administration's legislative agenda. Over at Another Liberal Blog and MyDD, several feisty entrees belittle the notion of a Bush mandate, question W's popularity and find serenity in Democratic performance at the margins. And in his Guardian column, Kos writes optimistically about the money, energy, and activism of a resurgent progessive opposition.
All of the above are valid and soothing for Democrats, but also largely beside the point. That's because behind the electoral fiasco in 2004, as in 2000, is the reality that we Democrats have degenerated into the "party of no." Democrats must become more than a "No" to the Republicans "Yes." As noted elsewhere, Democrats must say what they stand for and articulate a positive policy program for change, all in a way that is easily communicated.
For more details, see:
"Less Than the Sum of Our Parts"
Simply put, a fractured Democratic Party doesn't know its message or even its audience.
Upper West has the right idea, or at least the same idea as me. I've been on the phone with my congresspeople's offices all day, saying "filibuster, fight, as much as you have to"
R.I.P.
A Free America.
1776-2004
Incog' are you referring to that farce about the time traveller who claimed he was travelling back in time to retrieve computer equipment to help them rebuild the country?
if he is going back anyway, could he wake me up early so i wouldn't have missed what heretofore has become known as my last almost coupling with Lisa...
When are you people going to see that the American majority believe in moral values over ANYTHING else first and all else is second.
Ahh yes, your fake "moral" values over truth, justice, tolerance, peace.... you've got your priorities in order I see.
Moron.
The beginning of the end.
Let the healing begin!
Four more years!
Four more years!
I can't tell the difference between a troll's "whine" and their "gloat"
Take ”Gordon” for example.
I absolutely agree that we have got to attack this demonization of liberals.
Any thoughts?
lone star liberal
We know that people are going to be losing a lot with continuing GOP dominance. I would like to see private philanthropic agencies affiliated with a Democratic Party mindset organized to counter the losses and confusion and help neutralize the damage.
Counter-privatize... 
John Owens is right. At this point, the only silver lining that I see is that the overreaching of the Bush Administration has the potential to set the conservative movement back decades, if they continue to fuck things up the way they have so far. A lot of hardcore conservatives are alienated already by the lack of fiscal discipline, etc, and most of the electorate truly doesn't support their radical agenda. I am truly worried about the damage these people are going to do to the Constitution, our legal system, the economy and my mom's retirement, but the only way we are ever going to undo the damage is if it is lain clearly at the feet of those who did it. We need to find the means to keep a consistent message out in communities where hearts and minds can be won.
"
When are you people going to see that the American majority believe in moral values over ANYTHING else first and all else is second.
"
This also is actually true, if you replace the code word "moral values" with what it really means, i.e. bigotry and hate.
Bush has been fucking the middle and lower classes for the last four years and they can't get enough of it, because he appeals to the worst in them, validates and cultivates their every irrational fear and hatred.
R.I.P.
PERMANENT REPUBLICAN MAJORITY.
Yeah, that worked out great for Rome, Margaret Thatcher's party, and the Nazis.
If you're profoundly lucky, you will end like the Conservative Party of Britain, permanently discredited in the eyes of a disgusted populace.
If you insist on being complete asses about it, your party may meet a different fate entirely.
The choice is yours. Consider it carefully.
Donts ya'all be whispering bout my lezzie daughters 'cause NotJenna she be getting oppointed to da FCC when that sissy bag 'o lite chocolate puddin' michael powell gets booted ta keep his lily livered dadie in line. You gots me...no whisperin'...zip...an god don't nobody mention bushie an the old man's face sores even tho they make me wanna puke.
Heather Poe, yum!
Hunter:
If this *can* become one of the critical focuses of attack, you've immediately got the attention of a large swath of those so called Republicans.
What I'm saying is change the game, they don't have the mental dexterity to adjust.
I agree. But how, specifically?
TelltaleHeart speaks his mind. The liberal voice of America.
Automatically disregard any analysis of the election results that paints democrats as fundamentally flawed and shameful losers because they deserve it.
Not true. Just look at our governing record. We outperform them on every score in terms of delivering what people want from gov. Balanced budgets. Strong growth. Jobs. Clean environment. Storng national security. Family friendly. Fairness. Universal health care.
Campaigning is where they have us beat. They can make a loser look like a winner. We have a hard time making a winner look like a winner. People only see the straw man they erect, not the real guy we nominate, or what he will do for them that the GOP guy won't.
1/2 of country is satisfied enough with Bush that they don't even go to the polls
Um, no. I don't think you can make that assumption at all.
For example, some think all politicians are alike, so why bother? (I've been told this.)
Some think their votes don't count (cough, cough), so why bother?
Some are so busy trying to survive that voting isn't even a consideration.
Some, for other reasons: old age, sickness, etc., don't.
Let's not give him more than he's gotten. Even some of those votes were due to the work of snake-oil salesmen. Whatever. They fell for it.
He does not have a mandate.
Telltale heart, does your hitting the 'ok' button again and again signal maybe the onset of some kind of Travis Bickle-like breakdown? Seek help, bud!
"Gordon", are you back again, you silly, paunchy, bitch?
You are creepy, "Gordon". Women think so. You don't know many women, do you?
I wonder why? Do you wonder why, "Gordon"? Here's why, "Gordon".
Don't worry, "Gordon". The alcohol will help. For a while.
You paunchy, minimum-wage Rube. "Gordon".
.
When are you people going to see that the American majority believe in moral values over ANYTHING else
Ah, yes, the moral values of torturing and raping prisoners.
The moral values of bombing innocent women and children into a fine red mist.
The moral values of invading another country, just because we can, and lying to America about the reasons.
The moral values of spitting on the Constitution and trying to impose your religion on the rest of the country.
The moral values of putting women back in the kitchen where they belong, and making sure they carry any pregnancy to term, no matter if it will kill her, no matter if she's only 14 years old and carrying her father's baby.
...
Note to Alderaan:
the democrats did win in West Virginia by a landslide. the democrat candidate for governor beat a Republican mini-me Bush clone by a 65%-35% margin.
how did he do it? he stayed a million miles away from Kerry. i doubt he mentioned Kerry's name in public 5 times.
the problem was the wrong candidate. Kerry's every word, movement and policy was to dissemble and try to fool people into seeing what they wanted to see. and people regarded this as weakness and shiftyness, which is exactly what it was.
probably a third of kerry's votes came from people who didnt like him, didnt believe in him and who only voted for him because there was no alternative. if he couldnt convince people who were on his side that he was a fit candidate, how could he hope to convince a person who was unsure which way to go? yet that is the strategy he chose.
Telltale heart, does your hitting the 'ok' button again and again signal maybe the onset of some kind of Travis Bickle-like breakdown? Seek help, bud!
A Jesus Was a Liberal site/mini-movement might help reframe the debate on values. It probably wouldn't change the mind of too many Christian fundamentalists (and I'm not sure I'd want to take it into the churches of the deep south) but it might help some people--moderate voters, the mainstream media--to understand the inherent morality of liberalism.
Any thoughts?
lone star liberal
We need to burst the bubble that "morality" is only about sex.
It's time to frame the debate that Christian values are social justice, economic fairness, respect for the environment, treating all people with dignity, and taking care of children, the sick and the elderly.
Would Jesus want the richest country in the world to have 44 million people without healthcare?
Would He support a pre-emptive war based on a lie where at least 60,000 civilians were killed?
Would Jesus support corporations owned by billionaires that refused to pay their workers a liveable wage?
Would He allow corporations to poison our air and our water and rip off taxpayers so they could make bigger profits?
TelltaleHeart speaks his mind.
At least he has one, dogsnot.
Said Bush, "I readily concede I've laid out some very difficult issues for people to deal with. And I would hope to be able to work with Democrats to get this done."
Here is the new catch phrase that junior will start to haro on instead of Liberal.
The new deamon will be "Democrats"
Mark my words.
What we are going to have to do,is find some new party to allign ourselves with.Greens or something.
Democrat= bad will become the new mantra for the repugs.
Shit. We can fight as hard as we want, and get out the message that Diebold sucks and that the election was stolen, as it in fact WAS.
But we need a leader who's going to stick around with us through the fight. Not cave because of the "popular vote" that we know is bogus.
I don't think we need to give up our values, our belief that people should care for each other and that government has a role or that the separation of church and state is actually a good thing.
We just need someone who's willing to fight for it. Someone who can stand a little discomfort. Just stand there, okay, sir, and we'll do the fighting. Just don't run away, 'kay?
There are things worth getting dirty for.
I absolutely agree that we have got to attack this demonization of liberals. I moved to Texas this year and have been shocked to see all of the tv ads that spit out the word liberal as though it were the worst thing in the world (an ad from The Club for Growth for Tom Delay, by the way, promised, "Principled, Conservative Leadership").
One idea I've had floating around: Jesus Was a Liberal. I don't know if any of you have read Emmet Fox' "Sermon on the Mount" but it is an inspiring analysis of one of the greatest texts in the bible. The ideas could not be more in keeping with Democratic principles or further away from Republican hatefulness (I'm sorry but I don't think Jesus would have laughed about a woman about to be executed, as Bush has done).
A Jesus Was a Liberal site/mini-movement might help reframe the debate on values. It probably wouldn't change the mind of too many Christian fundamentalists (and I'm not sure I'd want to take it into the churches of the deep south) but it might help some people--moderate voters, the mainstream media--to understand the inherent morality of liberalism.
Any thoughts?
I've an idea--why not buy up huge quantities of Diebold stock and take over the company as much as possible?
Since they are embedded in every state polling system, they'll be there for a while.
...Oops, should have mentioned we'll be organizing bus trips down there too, if anybody can spare a few awkward days around Saturday December 4th.
hey focus, listen to red headed stranger too
was the time of the preacher
in the year of '01
that's when it happened. (2001).
hell. listen to it anyway.
I'm not sure the point of organizing for national elections, as long as we have e-voting. In my opinion, we are the majority party. But we will never really know this, will we, as long as there is e-voting. We must demand paper receipts, or paper ballots. I've will never participate in another national election, and I may boycott local elections, as long as there is e-voting. I won't participate in a corrupt, rigged system any longer. It is about, and always will be, a matter of principle.
people please i beseech you, do not engage the trollish urchins they provide no relevant discourse above snide pedestrian baiting; besides their all caca-brains and poopy-heads...
I live in CO and have good friends who voted for Bush. While I care about these people, I am thinking that I NEVER want to see them again.
I am THAT mad!
Pie,
You bellyaching over the election too? It's time to move on and put it behind us.
"Even some of those votes were due to the work of snake-oil salesmen. "
I think this may be giving the red-staters too much credit. We on the left always assume that these folks are really kind, decent people who have been duped into voting Republican, election after election.
It's possible. It's also possible that what Atrios said the other day is true: that they vote for Bush not in spite of the fact that he is a right-wing asshole, but because of it.
The reasons you give for why people don't turn out are plausible enough to account for some people, but not all. Anybody who is disgusted with Bush, and who wasn't so hungry, old, etc. that they literally were unable to get to the polls, would have made it out to vote against him.
People have had 4 years to see what Bush is all about, and on Tuesday a big chunk of them said, Thank you sir may I have another.
It's not exactly true that Bush doesn't have a mandate. He doesn't have a mandate from America, but he most definitely DOES have a mandate from the people who voted him into office. He owes these people, because right-wing fundie nutjobs have kept their party in power.
Democrat= bad will become the new mantra for the repugs.
You're kidding, right?
Where have you been?
Greens? Maybe in 20 years.
We need to wait for just a bit until new appointments/initiatives are announced. If they're hard-right then it will be the time to start. Massive protests against Bush plus ad campaign - mass pilgrimage to the mall. Message - there are 49% of us who not only preferred the other guy but are scared to death of you. The incompetents must go; fire these people: Rove, Rice, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, Norton. Put at least one dem in a real cabinet position - even Clinton (remember the "divisive" figure from whom you wished to "change the tone") did that. You have no mandate. You don't even have our passivity. Be a uniter.
Here is a bit from a Newsweek article about the campaign. I think the reasons for losing are pretty glaring. Reading this it's hard to believe Kerry even got 49%. Also makes it clear that they ignored Clinton and his people's advice. Of course, they did. Clinton and Carville win election. We can have that now can we. We're better off with Bob oh-for-a-lifetime Shrum.
Link
susan,
You're overreacting, don't you think? Do you beleive in freedom of speech and opinion or in your brown shirt world is it only ok to think like you do?
Gordon: How is it possible that the most interesting thing you could think of to do on a Thursday night was sit around on your computer and try to have a discussion with people that don't want to talk to you?
if life is so grand for a Republican why are you so lonely, and moreover, why are you still here?
I think Marine's girl has an excellent idea. These assholes at Fox and CNN will never learn, keep kissing Dumbya's ass no matter what horror comes next.
(I leave for a minute and miss 300 rants)
Don't underestimate the viciousness of the leaders of the right wing. And...don't underestimate the potential humanity of the followers of the leaders of the right wing. We just haven't learned to talk to these people yet...and listen.
"Telltale heart, does your hitting the 'ok' button again and again signal maybe the onset of some kind of Travis Bickle-like breakdown? Seek help, bud!
The Un-Gordon | Email | Homepage | 11.04.04 - 11:36 pm |"
Oh ”Gordon” you poor lonely loser. I'm sniggering at you, you paunchy, balding, silly laughing-stock.
Nobody is fooled by you. Everyone is sniggering now, "Gordon". At you.
You see, "Gordon" if I had pressed the "OK" button, then I would have posted again. Do you see what I'm saying here, "Gordon"?
"Anonymous" re-posted my post all those times, you pathetic, paunchy little bitch, "Gordon".
"Anonymous" is YOU, and "the Un-Gordon" is you too. But you know that. We all know that. And now, as usual, we are sniggering at you again.
Poor, friendless, "Gordon" A lonely, paunchy RUBE.
.
what's so bad about that fish picture, tth? Do you find paunchy middle-aged people repellent? He just looks like a rube, doesnt he, with that fish and that dumb grin!
WHAT A FUCKING SNOB YOU ARE! I hope you're miserable, dipshit, because it is haughty fucks like you that lost this election for Kerry.
get hoefel(sorry, i forgot how to spell it ) ready to take on santorum. he is the one who REALLY needs to go. i would rather have spector than hatch on the judiciary. he still has to make up for clarence and he knows it.
Dick Morris is such a creep. He is correct about exit polls but his conclusion is wrong. The networks held on revealing exit polling data because they don't trust the voting process not because they didn't trust the exit polls.
We haven't had problems with exit polls until 2000 in Florida and now they're a complete mess according to the GOP. How odd that this only happens when Dubya is involved.
You bellyaching over the election too? It's time to move on and put it behind us.
Never!
Ever!
Even if I was forced to eat bullets would I put this behind me.
Junior is a thug and he lied and cheated his way to his littel Man-date.
You can kiss my ass when he has used his thuggery to kill me.
You deserve him and you will regret the day you voted for him.
Olaf gets mad props for dropping Red Headed Stranger.
hey focus, listen to red headed stranger too
was the time of the preacher
in the year of '01
well i do know he loved her so dearly; he went out of his mind,
and some fuck laid a hand on the bey...
but he most definitely DOES have a mandate from the people who voted him into office
jasin, not everyone who voted for him is a fundie. Not by a long shot.
My sister-in-law and her husband voted for him because they thought Bush was good for his small business (even though it's not doing well at all and did much better under Clinton).
Go figure.
ooops. I'm anon from 11:43
smalfish,
got an address? I'll mail you a tube of vagasil, you fucking whiner.
I totally agree with Jon. Start coming up with cool catch phrases for our ideas, and get the ideas out there. Then get the candidates to put their arms around them after people have already heard them and are thinking about them.
We on the left don't like catch phrases and ideas codified at the party or base level. We tend to be arty people who like our candidates to come up with detailed plans that seem unique and creative. We've got to get over that shit. No one read Kerry's health plan and he didn't have a catch phrase for it, even if he had, it wouldn't have been one out there in the public ferment for a while.
The repubs have come up with "Flat Tax" "Death Tax" "Marriage Penalty,". Let's not forget the uniquely eumphemistic "Special Rights" and "No Child Left Behind" Even classics like "family values" "small government" and new hits like "faith-based" are on the list. What the f have we got out there?
Let's get some of our own ideas out there with catchy marketable phrases and beat that shit to death.
Slightly OT, but did anyone get to the business pages today?
The Dollar's Long Term Direction:Down
At the end of last year, the nation's net financial deficit - broadly, what Americans owe the rest of the world minus what the rest of the world owes to the United States -amounted to nearly 30 percent of total output. And both sides are digging themselves deeper into holes, with American debts mounting and foreigners acquiring ever greater piles of depreciating paper assets.
Slightly OT, but did anyone get to the business pages today?
The Dollar's Long Term Direction:Down
At the end of last year, the nation's net financial deficit - broadly, what Americans owe the rest of the world minus what the rest of the world owes to the United States -amounted to nearly 30 percent of total output. And both sides are digging themselves deeper into holes, with American debts mounting and foreigners acquiring ever greater piles of depreciating paper assets.
Yeah you need a grass roots effort to spring Skerry from jail when he is arrested for Treason.
Book em Dano!
Gordon: Why don't you go fuck yourself with the Vagisil?
TNR
Not only did Kerry win by an 86-13
margin among self-described
liberals, he also won by a 55-45
margin among self-described
moderates. So how'd Bush pull it
off? He won 84-15 among
self-described conservatives, and,
more importantly, he made sure
conservatives comprised a much
bigger chunk of the electorate than
they did in 2000. (Conservatives
comprised about 34 percent of the
electorate yesterday, versus 29
percent in 2000--a huge shift, raw
numbers-wise.) Anyone anticipating a
conciliatory second Bush term should
stop and consider how much Bush owes
his base.
Kerry didn't lose this election, he walked away from it.
All I'll ask for next time is someone who will fucking stick around until AFTER the votes are counted.
lone star liberal
Sign me up for the "Jesus was a liberal" movement. It's something I've mentioned on and off on these boards for a couple of years. It happens to be true. Jesus hated the pharisees and the money changers of his time, because of their self-righteousness and greed. He called them hypocrites. I really think that progressives should give the new testament a serious read. It's apparent to me that many of Jesus' followers don't read it much, if at all.
Yeah you need a grass roots effort to spring Skerry from jail when he is arrested for Treason.
Somebody's projecting like a Panavision.
BZZ WRONG tth, I'm just a bystander. And I wouldn't go lobbing the expression "rube" too loosely 'round these parts. Or we may have to resurrect the priceless thread on how to eat crudites with a toothpick.
We need to burst the bubble that "morality" is only about sex."
Well, yes and no. "Morality" as a concept is indeed much broader than sex; indeed it involves anything where there is a question of what ought to be done.
But when Bush voters tell exit pollers that they are voting based on "moral values", they don't really mean that.
"Moral values" = code for bigotry & hate.
Sure, we could go through a whole bunch of trouble to take that particular code word away from them, but they'd just find another.
Gay-bashing and racism would become "traditional values", or just "conservatism". They will find a way to appeal to the worst among us.
Kerry didn't lose this election, he walked away from it.
All I'll ask for next time is someone who will fucking stick around until AFTER the votes are counted.
olaf...
of course i am anon at 11:45 and check him out doing Rodney Crowell "'Till I gain control"
Jo Public,
Here's a very simplified answer to your question. There are several ways to make the attack I've suggested, but for now I'll paint the picture with broad strokes below:
Instead of trying to wake them up to the disaster of W. and friends. Shift the focus to the US dollar, the Fed's negligence in it's management. Go after the State legislatures to force accountability from the fed on the decline in purchasing power and the reasons for it.
Don't get side tracked by economists due to the fact that they'll want to spin the debate to economic theories that will confuse the general public. The answers the states will garner from this action will give insight into the true nature of what's going on and, it can be done in such a way that the general public can grasp the details (they're not that complicated). This information can be distilled into a rallying point that Karl and Krew have no tools to rebut, spin or distract.
mm,
are you threatening me?
My sister-in-law and her husband
That's like "the mother of my children."
:~)
Katha Pollitt in the Nation has a chilling take on what has happened, which somehow has the ring of truth to it, more's the pity:
Maybe this time the voters chose what they actually want: Nationalism, pre-emptive war, order not justice, "safety" through torture, backlash against women and gays, a gulf between haves and have-nots, government largesse for their churches and a my-way-or-the-highway President.
Where, I wonder, does that leave us?
Big Nasty,
Kerry got more than 49%...he was not a perfect candidate, and the worse thing he did was capitulate so early. But...he was monumentally a better choice than W, and a majority of the voting public believed this as well...stay tuned for more developments, I am sure, regarding vote stealing...read Greg Palast:
http://www.commondreams.org/
views04/1104-36.htm
"Most voters in Ohio thought they were voting for Kerry. CNN's exit poll showed Kerry beating Bush among Ohio women by 53 percent to 47 percent. Kerry also defeated Bush among Ohio's male voters 51 percent to 49 percent. Unless a third gender voted in Ohio, Kerry took the state.
So what's going on here? Answer: the exit polls are accurate. Pollsters ask, "Who did you vote for?" Unfortunately, they don't ask the crucial, question, "Was your vote counted?" The voters don't know.
Here's why. Although the exit polls show that most voters in Ohio punched cards for Kerry-Edwards, thousands of these votes were simply not recorded. This was predictable and it was predicted. [See TomPaine.com, "An Election Spoiled Rotten," November 1.]"
'Olaf gets mad props ...'
I love it when eschaton whities get ill on trolls, for shizzle on the regular.
Deflecting the Exit Polls
By Taegan Goddard on Political Strategy
U.S. News and World Report says Karl Rove, Chief of Staff Andy Card and National Security Advisor Condi Rice "took the lead Tuesday in refuting early media exit polls showing a big election night loss for President Bush."
"Officials said the trio, from the Old Family Dining Room, were glued to computers showing GOP exit polling data that conflicted with the early media polls that found Bush losing big in Pennsylvania, Ohio and Florida. Rove, working though the Republican information, found that the polls were flawed, especially in that they were not counting men proportionally. He and others sent out word that the polls were wrong, just as calls were coming in from gloomy aides around the nation."
WOW WHAT A TRIO OF STATISTICIANS !
ROVE - WHO COULDN'T ESTIMATE NUMBER OF TROOPS NEEDED FOR IRAQ BUT CAN READ POLL DATA
RICE - CAN'T RECALL EVENTS ABOUT 9/11
CARD - CHIEF BUSH BUTT KISSER
ROVE IS POUNDING OUT COVER STORIES FOR HIS ELECTION FRAUD AND THE MEDIA STOOGES ARE STILL BUYING THEM - NO QUESTIONS ASKED.
NOTHING HAS CHANGED !
Gordon: No, I'm not threatening you. I simply suggested a way that you might make better use of the vagasil and enjoy yourself at the same time. Since you seem to be so lonely.
Kerry didn't lose this election, he walked away from it.
All I'll ask for next time is someone who will fucking stick around until AFTER the votes are counted.
I think this may be giving the red-staters too much credit. We on the left always assume that these folks are really kind, decent people who have been duped into voting Republican, election after election.
Some of them really are racist creeps. Bush is sending them coded messages when he does things like dissing the NAACP.
That's like "the mother of my children."
She's my husband's sister. Her husband is an overbearing jerk.
What was this, Atrios?
Something's Coming
The movement continues...stay tuned.
-Atrios 1:58 PM
Comments (47) | Trackbacks (2)
One quick thought before I head off to Nyquil induced dreams...stop shopping at Walmart. Really. Just do it. And support New Urbanism. Not fake NU regentrification cutesy-poo projects, but honest to god liveable cities and towns. Death to Tyrants! And Walmart! And cul-de-sacs!
'night, all. The fight continues tomorrow.
Alderaan---look at the vote tally county by county in WV---the old time Dems in the Southern coalfields came back to Kerry in this election. The rethugs tooks the most populated, most "educated" and most urban counties---especially those on the northern edges of WV--on the PA, MD, VA borders---those are many new WVs and especially those fleeing DC for cheaper homes. So, your analysis needs some tweaking---it may explain the loss of WV, that the majority of current voters are not the folks who voted for Carter and Dukakis, but the new generation of soccer moms and more traditional religiosos.
Thanks for the Jesus was a Liberal feedback--all great examples, Stinky. I don't think this is the only answer but it does seem that it could be a step in the right direction.
Now I just need to swing into action.
One other thing: how great was Atrios' talk of Bush's new man date. I'm not sure how that's going to play with Karl's new evangelical crowd--his candidate surges into office on a wave of homophobia and the first thing he does is head out on a man date. Talk about a flip-flopper.
(And sorry about the multiple postings--must have been some haloscan thing).
mm,
well then, you must be proposing?
It's their sex lives and lonely failed marriages, peepole.
Frigid women with the occasional flat-chested wild slut and repressed closeted and impotent men hungering for a lower class dominatrix or black penetration.
I recommend everyone read Black Commentator on the election. If you think it's about religion, you're wrong. Religion is just a cover for racism.
http://tinyurl.com/4otgh
Minnesota DFL is alive and kicking. If you're up here, join in--we have a smirking idiot Governor who needs to have his ass handed to him in '06.
Wakeup Democrats and left leaners... your dream is fading and you still don't understand why...
The system right now is rigged against democracy.... Democrats can't fix the problem because they still don't see it. The media elite, and far right industrial-military complex, will just continue to cheat, lie and jury-rig the system to keep themselves in power. Americans need to get to the root of the problem:
The whole system is compromised because of internal corruption and the system will work overtime to shutdown anyone who tries to expose it. Until you see the problem, you can't change things for the better.
Politicians will NEVER do the right thing because the system will always pull a Monica Lewinsky, Whitewater, or JFK on them to shut them down.
Expose the Wizards pulling the strings.
That's the only hope America has.
eschaton whities. heh.
Gordon:Yes, I proposed that you go fuck yourself with the tube of vagasil that you kindly offered to send to someone else. Enjoy. Why don't you go back over to Dog Snot and get the fuck out of here.
'Olaf gets mad props ...'
I love it when eschaton whities get ill on trolls, for shizzle on the regular.
anonymous
Actually, that was my Bill Buckley voice.
Olaf, and of course "American Dream" on Borderline... very relevant and i always liked yer posts now its more clearerer why...
We need Jimmy Carter to lead the voter fraud charge as soon as it has legs (good stats on anomolies etc.)
Religion, the way these thugs use it, is a cover for racism and sexism. Generally, for "get the hell out of my way, or I will hurt you. Bad."
And something tells me we're gonna long for the day when he had to code his messages. Mofo can't tie his own shoes and suddenly he's coming out with Dred Scott decision.
"anonymous" wrote: what's so bad about that fish picture, tth? Do you find paunchy middle-aged people repellent? He just looks like a rube, doesnt he, with that fish and that dumb grin!
WHAT A FUCKING SNOB YOU ARE! I hope you're miserable, dipshit, because it is haughty fucks like you that lost this election for Kerry.
Don't hate me, "Gordon". Just leave. I won't follow you.
The funny thing is, I KNEW you were a paunchy, lonely loser when you came here on election night. I only saw your picture today. Oh boy I laughed.
At your expense. Lonely. Sad. Bitch.
Who else would come HERE on election night, "Gordon"? Who indeed? Most republicans have friends. But you don't, do you?
Poor "Gordon".
"Do you find paunchy middle-aged people repellent?"
No. No I don't. But I find:
Paunchy
Republican
Whiny
Bitches
...fairly off-putting, especially when I'm trying to eat.
.
Kerry didn't walk away he got his ass handed to him. He will enjoy his time in prison for treason being married to Bubba.
Book em Dano!
mm,
are you trying to get gay with me or something?
no thanks, homo.
oops. sorry. none of my business anyway.
Their mother is an overbearing jerk, too.
lone star liberal
Sign me up for the "Jesus was a liberal" movement. It's something I've mentioned on and off on these boards for a couple of years. It happens to be true. Jesus hated the pharisees and the money changers of his time, because of their self-righteousness and greed. He called them hypocrites. I really think that progressives should give the new testament a serious read. It's apparent to me that many of Jesus' followers don't read it much, if at all.
Another Bruce
Yes, lone star liberal and Another Bruce. Jesus said, "Love your neighbor as yourself." that's a verse the Christian Right never quotes, and doesn't seem to know.
"Dean implosion"?
Are you kidding me?
More like Dean lynching.
At this point, Dean is our last bet against a "New Democrat Party" headed by Hillary Clinton in 4 years.
Kerry cut the legs out from under any real voter fraud charge when he conceded.
How can anyone else make the charge when the candidate himself believed the results enough to quit?
Olaf gets mad props ...'
I love it when eschaton whities get ill on trolls, for shizzle on the regular.
anonymous
Actually, that was my Bill Buckley voice.
geor3ge--you done made me laugh right out loud with that one.
When I was watching the Florida returns, I kept waiting for the numbers to get closer when the Miami Dade results came in (like it did four years ago). That never happened. How could that be?
Gordon:I'm a woman you stupid fuck. But I guess I shouldn't expect you to be able to recognize a woman if she were sitting on your face. Been a while has it?
Kerry cut the legs out from under any real voter fraud charge when he conceded.
How can anyone else make the charge when the candidate himself believed the results enough to quit?
What about an Ohio recount?
See Recommended Diaries on Kos. www.dailykos.com
To think that we would have had a Traitor for CINC without the brave SWIFTIES stepping up and exposing Skerry for being the traitorous bastard.
We have not heard the final chapter on Mr. Skerry.
Book em Dano!
Working grass roots is good, but take a look at what the Republicans did to get out their vote. They used ballot initiatives that they KNEW would bring out the people.
Let's not just work hard this time but work smarter.
Working grass roots is good, but take a look at what the Republicans did to get out their vote. They used ballot initiatives that they KNEW would bring out the people.
Let's not just work hard this time but work smarter.
we need to examine the results of this election for fraud and it has to become standard practice to assume that the possibility of cheating exists instead of being called conspiracy theorists. seriously, i bet more effort goes into making sure that the ncaa basketball tournament is clean than goes into making sure elections are.
diatribe-- nice point. On the brighter side, the Rethugs may have just played their last card. Thanks to Bushies crappy record they had to give up their only wedge issue in this election to save his ass. They've got no issue in '08
I am not a troll. I have raged like the rest of you for the last 4 years.
But I am also a former Republican. And a former "conservative Christian."
Listen: You're not getting it.
Except for Lone Star Liberal, who does get it. I came here to quickly scroll down and mention the Sermon on the Mount. But somebody beat me to the punch.
You've been framed, and you're acting just like Karl Rove wants you act: angry against the people who can deliver you victories for decades.
I have been as guilty as any of you for framing the "religious right" as this bigoted, immutable bloc of voters that are at the far extreme end of the spectrum.
And there are indeed some theocrats out there. But most aren't.
But LISTEN. LISTEN to that latter group. Ask them questions. Speak their language.
Again: Speak their language.
You know what would scare the GOP the most?
Sliding up to a reasonable Christian and finding out more about them.
You can do that first by reading their manifesto. Put aside everything you possibly can. Fear not that I am a Christian trying to convert you. I am not. Fear not that this means sucking up to homophobes and racists. It doesn't.
Speak their language.
Your values and theirs are the same.
And now the GOP has NO OTHER WAY to ever win the presidency. Steal the Christians and they are DEAD.
mm,
what are you then? some sort of a boldike?
Kerry cut the legs out from under any real voter fraud charge when he conceded.
No way. The election is not the candidate,s, it's the people's. The votes do not belong to the candidate, they belong to the people. The people are the ones who have a right to a fair election, not the candidates.
Long time reader first time poster...
I'd like to share a couple blog entries i've made lately, I think we've all been thinking and writing about the same things.
---
Republicans have been able to co-opt working class populism and frame it into the politics of outrage. Middle America as a result believes the Democrats are a party of elites who are hell bent on killing unborn babies, forcing gay marriage on their churches, killing the elderly, creating generations of welfare mothers, raising their taxes -those tax breaks come in real handy when making 7 an hour at wal-mart don't they? To put it simply they have been conned into forsaking their economic self interest and security in favor of moral self interest. A moral interest not based anywhere in reality.
How can the margin be swung back when people are making decisions that are based on make believe?
To start the Democratic party must find it's self. As it stands now it is an amalgam of sometimes conflicting interests. Short of a few very basic platitudes there is nothing tying together gay rights and lets say labor issues, or gun control. There is no overriding cohesive theory that ties it all together. So we must find ourselv's, and frame our issues accordingly. We cannot let the Republicans frame the debate, we must cease being a party of "responses" and become a party of popular ideas. Ideas that will speak to middle America, or at least enough of middle America for it to make a difference when it counts.
------
and....
-----
How do you get people to vote for a Democrat when the areas of disagreement are derived from moral disagreement? How do you get them to vote Democrat when they view people from the city with distrust? When neither side really seems to "get" the other?
I know part of it is bullshit moral outrage over hot button moral issues, but not all of that margin are fundamentalist Christians. A lot of people who voted on "values" are not regular church goers, they believe in god and such but aren't fanatics. Those guys are the ones we gotta convert, the ones that bought into Bush's false-folksy demeanor.
How do we do it? Do we move the issues? Do we go more to the center like the DLC says?
I think it has a lot more to do with attitude and delivery. I don't think the Democrats should ever nominate a candidate that is not from the south or from the west. It needs to be an everyman, someone who can relate and be related to by the blue collar types. Hunter S. Thompson summed this up in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. When he described the divide between the Berkeley intellectuals and the working class bikers, and how those two could never come together.
So even though "values" will be what everyone points at as the reason for Kerry's loss, I think the real reasons are about identity as I spoke before, but also about the ability of "average joes" in the fly over states to relate to the candidate.
As Democrats we have to do thi
"boldike"? Oh my god.
What a moron.
Homepage in my last post is not mine; it's my first post, and I haven't figured out how to post a link -- HTML tags?
START TAXING CHURCHES IMMEDIATELY
If they want to get involved in politics, they can pay taxes like everyone else has to.
NO MORE FREE RIDE FOR YOU!
I would very much like to see this blog AND/OR atrios, left coaster, talk left, skbubba, digby someone…maybe a collaboration. ANYONE to move away from attacking the right and aggressively attack the democratic leadership, DNC, DLC, Terry “What Can I Lose This Week”. Bring heat to bear on those who exhibit less than a rabid nature for destruction of the opposition. If the Democratic Party does not have leadership with balls and an aggressive stance in elections; well they damn well deserve to lose and we will and will continue to do so. 50,000 letters…NOT emails…hard paper letters with .37c stamps should be dumped on the DNC desks demanding change. An enclosed check for zero dollars or one penny would be a nice touch!
A blog or collaboration bent on the destruction and exposure of worthless media outlets and the bobble heads that spend 4 hours in the beauty salon to arrive and read the propaganda du jour. These worthless pundits spewing endless distorted “facts” to the mindless ignorant who drink this propaganda should be attacked and exposed in any manner possible; including their personal lives. And demand high “moral values” such as truth and honesty from the likes of most of the CNN staff, but to name only one “news” outlet. We need to demand a certain level of truth and pure fact before conferring the title journalist upon someone and we need to turn the likes of pundits into creatures of contempt. One notch above a slug.
Two years of wringing our hands over Bush mistakes, policies or constantly attacking the right wing zealots is not going to be productive. And it will not change a damn thing. 50,000 letters…not email that will be: “select all”/”delete”……hard paper letters with 37c stamps dumped on advertisers, editors, pundits will have more effect than all the “he is so wrong” posts we all can make.
I want Judy Woodruff to arrive home and for the next 12 months have received over 1000 letters she has to stuff in a garbage bag and carry to the trash. I want her to arrive at CNN every morning (she does not go to the hair salon) for the next 12 months and see 1000 letters on her desk. I would like to see CNN’s trash bill increase each month with letters over their outrageous “reporting”.
Outraged? Put your damn printer and a few ten dollars of postage to work. If 50 million Americans did not buy Brand A toilet paper for a month because they advertised on (insert your favorite media or corporation) you can be sure we would be noticed. I really do not want to spend 2 years or 4 and just complain about the policies of this corrupt American government and with no effect or change. Do you?
Gordon: I'm done. Go play somewhere else.
got an address? I'll mail you a tube of vagasil, you fucking whiner.
Ya I got an adress for you baby!
1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
Puke.
By the way does junior give good reach arounds?
"boldike"? Oh my god.
What a moron.
rorschach
Seriously, is there anything more boring than a sore winner?
We should concentrate all our resources on the non computer voting states. We can win there.
"boldike"
What an idiot. Why is anyone even talking to this piece of shit?
I disagree. It is clear that the wacko religio people control this country. Our best role right now is to now let them do what they will, and hope the rest of the nation will wake up. We won't change these wacko relious people, and we won't change the morons that voted their way.
There needs to be a paradigm shift.
See that coming soon? No, me neither.
Stay in an urban blue state area, and hope for the best.
"boldike"? Oh my god.
What a moron.
rorschach | Email | Homepage | 11.05.04 - 12:07 am | #
It was so unfair I didn't even want to go there. Complete idiot doesn't even come close to describing Gordon.
At this point, Dean is our last bet
Chuy, please stop looking for a savior. No politician -- no anybody -- is the last bet on anything.
Complete idiot doesn't even come close to describing Gordon.
"I don't want to say that that kid sucks, but he certainly inhales deeply." -Firesign Theatre.
For the record, I'm not talking to Gordon. Just amusing myself at the expense of an idiot.
Great comments tonight--except the usual collection of sad trolls--and good to see that there is still plenty of fight on this side.
See the just-posted op ed by Krugman in the NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/0...krugman.html?
hp
The kicker: "It's all right to take a few weeks to think it over. (Heads up to readers: I'll be starting a long-planned break next week, to work on a economics textbook. I'll be back in January.) But Democrats mustn't give up the fight. What's at stake isn't just the fate of their party, but the fate of America as we know it."
We'll have a little time to lick the old wounds--and find out what's up exactly with these questions of voter fraud--but then it's time to drag those fuckers, kicking and screaming, into the world of reality.
And while we laugh about man dates, let's not forget the cover of the (conservative) London tabloid The Daily Mirror: a picture of Bush with the words, "How can 59,017, 382 people be so DUMB?"
dean is nobody. he couldn't even win running against democrats for god's sake.
"Gordon", still here, you silly, pudgy, republican?
You are our Bitch, "Gordon". You know that, but it's better than being alone, isn't it?
How depressing, when even other republicans won't play with you. You poor, sad, Embarassment.
Republicans are embarassed to be around you, "Gordon". They are mostly smarter than you, you RUBE. And many of them have families.
Sleeping alone again, "Gordon".
"Magnificent". It's good that you can laugh at yourself, "Gordon".
The
Magnificent
!!!
Oh, I bet plenty of people laugh about that. And laugh and laugh.
At you, "Gordon". Laughing, and sniggering, at you.
Paunchy. Lonely. Bitch.
Olaf, I disagree. Dean may not have been the ideal candidate, but he sure is one hell of an attack dog.
And while we laugh about man dates, let's not forget the cover of the (conservative) London tabloid The Daily Mirror: a picture of Bush with the words, "How can 59,017, 382 people be so DUMB?"
For those who haven't seen that priceless cover, it's on my blog here.
i don't have a problem with dean, geor3ge. he is no good as a national candidate or a master strategist though.
You can do that first by reading their manifesto. Put aside everything you possibly can. Fear not that I am a Christian trying to convert you. I am not. Fear not that this means sucking up to homophobes and racists. It doesn't.
Speak their language.
Speak their language? Have you read how most of the people around here describe people who aren't ashamed of their christianity? Here's an example:
Religion, the way these thugs use it, is a cover for racism and sexism.
The democrats managed to scare jews from their party into the the republican camp. How the hell did you manage that? How does that square with your accusation that republicans are the party of the extreme christian right?
I've concluded that you don't want to win. You just want to fight. You want to rage against something, and you don't even know why or for what end. Rebels without clues.
You deserve him and you will regret the day you voted for him.
smalfish | Email | Homepage | 11.04.04 - 11:45 pm | #
Yeah, yeah. If you keep your fist raised in air much longer, it'll fall asleep. FYI.
THEY CALL ME PASTABAGEL
I should add, if the dark age of a lasting Republican majority does actually persist, that we would also be profoundly lucky to have it end up like Thatcher's Conservative party.
The other options are not appealing in the slightest, and of the ones I mentioned before, it seems most likely that this country, if the Republicans have their way, will ultimately follow the model of Rome: rampant corruption by the party in power will lead to complacency in the ruling class, contempt in the military, depleted treasury, delapidated public infrastructure, all contributing to a huge vulnerability that leaves the country wide open to outside aggression from several vectors.
what are you then? some sort of a boldike?
The sort that's referred to as bull dyke -- in some polite company.
What's your problem, boy?
Pastabagel. Now there's a troll. Take notes, Gordon.
Bottom line is, if the votes were counted accurately, Kerry won. I'm sure of it.
Also, It makes me sick to my soul that folks who talk about *morals and values* posess none of the above when they ignore the sick, the homeless, God's green Earth, and basic human kindness toward their fellow man. Especially if they're homo, black, liberal and intellegent and value the Constitution.
This is facsisim, not morality.
here's what i know - dean would have made a decent candidate this time, he'd make a decent one next time...but more importantly, the BEST candidate didn't make it. and that's all i can think about right now.
A New Age Coup D'Etat (none / 0)
A New Age Coup D'Etat
Friends:
I just got back from Florida, and I must tell you that I simply cannot believe what has happened. I hate to admit it; but the Repugs just stole another election and gotten away with it scott free. You know, Kerry promised all his workers that he wouldn't throw in the towel until he was absolutely certain that this election was fair and honest. He's certainly lost all my respect, and I'm from Massachusetts.
Please check out the following internet site as well as my son's analysis:
http://ustogether.org/
Florida_El...da_Election.htm
It demonstrates the actual improbability of the recent Florida Presidential vote. For those who do not completely understand the chart, I'll try to explain a little. I sure hope I can remember everything my father told me.
For example, take the highly Democratic Calhoun County:
According to the official voter registration records, there are 11.9% Republican voters, 82.4% Democratic voters, and 5.7% Independent voters.
Altogether, in Tuesday's election a total of 5,961 residents voted. Furthermore, if everyone had just voted party lines, then the expected vote should have been as follows: Republicans 709 votes and Democrats 4,911 votes. Again, this county has a 82.4% Democratic registration.
However, that is not the way it turned out. Instead there was a highly inflated 3,780 Bush vote, and a greatly reduced 2,116 Democrat vote.
Those huge turnaround numbers represent a 433.2% Bush increase anormality and a 56.9% Kerry decrease anormality. In terms of a final Florida vote count, there is a differential of nearly 6,000 total votes, and this is just for one relatively small Florida county.
What are the probablities of an enormous shift such as this? Even the heavily Republican counties had nowhere near this kind of Democartic voter shift. Check out the numbers for yourself.
Also check out some of the other counties. You have the same kinds of implausible voter shifts. But note that the greatest shifts occur in the small counties. Could this be because there are fewer people around to watch the people assessing the final vote numbers that were ultimately sent to the Florida Registrar of Voters?
Unquestionably, it is in those small counties where highly knowledgeable computer experts should be breaking down the machines and checking out exactly what happened on Tuesday.
Friends, this no time to give up like sheep ready for the slaughter.
Mourning the Vote Day - Nov 9 MOURNING THE VOTE
Please join us in a peaceful protest on TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 9TH, by WEARING
ALL BLACK.
Today and in the days to come, the country should be in mourning over the loss of thousands of innocent soldiers and civilians, over the death of truth, and over the
decision to reelect their condemner.
If you want to go the extra distance wear black all week. (from the 9th to the 16th).
For more info go to www.mourningthevote.com
(What follows is a shortened version of a comment that I tried to post earlier but the software seemed to fail. I apologize if I end up with two repetitive posts).
To prepare for next time, we have to see what failed this time. The media and blogs are full of suggestions of what the Democrates have to do to be competitive (though I'd argue they are competitive, they just didn't win), most of which, at least in the mainstream media, seem to be based on being more like the Republicans.
I think we need a more fact based, and less opinion based approach. I'd suggest everyone look at the report from PIPI "The separate realities of Bush and Kerry supporters" at http://www.pipa.org/
OnlineReport...ort10_21_04.pdf. When you combine the contents of that report with exit polling that shows Kerry lost the vote of those who saw terrorism as a major issue 86% to 14%, I think it's clear that without any change in policy position, Kerry could have won the election if conservatives had not been able to convince the electorate of a false reality.
In the report it shows that 75% of Bush supporters felt that Iraq was directly involved in 9/11 or gave al-Qaeda substantial support (22% involved vs. 55% support). This compared with a total of 30% for Kerry supporters. Bush supporters also believe the 9/11 comission reprt supported this view.
Substantial majorities of Bush supporters also felt that most experts agree that Iraq had WMDs just before the war and that the Deufler report came to this conclusion.
Similar misconceptions are documented throughout the report.
Kerry never had the "values" voters, but many of those who voted on the terrorism issues could have been his (and I think this opinion was supported, at least anectdotally, by many of the man-in-the-street interviews I heard on election day). If you believe that Iraq was behind 9/11 and Kerry is not behind the war in Iraq, then it's hard not to conclude Kerry was weak on terrorism.
Though I'm sure a case can be made for other things the Democrats could have done to win, the failure to get the facts to the public was enough to change the results of the election.
To win, that's got to change. I agree with Marine's Girl that the advertising has to go on after the election, and I'll support it.
http://www.stickergiant.com/Merc...s/250/
b5821.gif
I've been guilty of this myself, but we really don't have time to engage childish egotists like Gordon. It doesn't matter what you say to him, all attention that you give him is a reward. There are some really good ideas going in these comments now. Take part in that dialogue. If a conservative want's to add a substantial argument let's engage them and not start throwing the troll label around. But we have no more time to waste on Gordon's emotional immaturity.
I'm surprised that Atrios assumes that this is the time to take a holiday. Like the others who posted on this subject before me, we need to demand that Bush bring the troops home and to integrate our anti-war activism with our domestic agenda for social justice. The holidays are the time to make that connection most effectively, as the WWJD comments above show.
Let's reframe the abortion debate.
For the sake of arguement, let's say that dems are not pro-abortion, instead of calling ourselves pro-choice (more later). Our current pro-choice stance limits us too much because we are then being narrowly defined by the right.
What if we agree that the pro-life people really are anti-abortion, like they say. What if we agree that the dems support choosing life, too, (except for the health of the mother). In the case of fetuses, we support the choice to take fetuses full term to birth with the limited exception noted above.
This is where we diverge.
1.The right's solution is to wait for an unwanted pregnancy, then if the mother chooses abortion, impose severe punishment: the doctor faces criminal charges. One Senator won his race on Nov. 2 espousing the death penalty for this crime. I don't know their suggested sentence for the mother. Maybe we should make them reply.
2.The dem position is to prevent the need/desire for abortion. When this is successful, there is no dead baby, no dead doctor, and no incarcerated mother. Isn't this in actual fact the very definition of pro-life? Of course we call it Choose Life. Our program would be built around supporting the well-being of the mother as well as the new life, with a firm and defined committment. A significant financial committment is required, but then how seriously do we take the saving of fetuses and their mothers? Additionally, costs are probably less than the costs of criminal sanctions and their implementation. We do the fine tuning after researching the details, then we propose the Choose Life Constitutional Amendment.
How could the current pro-life crowd argue that it is better to punish those responsible for the deaths of a fetuses than it is to save the babies, the mothers, and let the gynecologist "practice his love as best he can", in the words of GWB.
It would be fun to hear them argue that it is best not to invest in saving babies. Or, maybe they would have to concede the issue before it even begins.
Rob, I agree that the candidate should be a "common" man or woman. Edwards/Obama would be a great ticket.
Hilary would be a disaster.
But we have to destroy the frame that we are elitist intellectuals, godless Hollywood liberals, arrogant city-slickers.
I saw Donna Brazile start spinning "our values are from Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John" and Bay Buchanan started panicking, shouting out something about Hollywood.
It can't just be the candidate. We have to repackage the entire message, NOW, and start pushing it, NOW, in simpler language about values.
What do we stand for?
How is it the same thing as what a middle American believes in?
The "values" discussion is overblown right now in the media.
But the truth remains: Middle America is right there for the taking, but we need to stop acting like we're so much smarter than they are.
there's a fascist coup going on.
the whole world is watching.
benf | Email | Homepage | 11.04.04 - 10:31 pm | #
I just read this now. How the hell can there be a coup if he got 51% of the vote?
The whole world is watching? Good, they might learn a thing or two.
THEY CALL ME PASTABAGEL
Why would someone right-wing hang out at a left-leaning blog if they wanted something besides a fight?
Someone's without a clue, but it's you, Pastabagel.
Bottom line is, if the votes were counted accurately, Kerry won. I'm sure of it.
This is the only explanation that makes sense to me. George Bush has done such a terrible job it doesn't make sense that a majority would vote for him.
the first thing i did when i found out Kerry threw in the towel was call my mom and in a fit of confusion and anger ask "why? so soon? things could still work out...why is he giving up?"
today, as i sit here thinking about the months ahead, i know i will wonder what else it will take people to see...what else must go wrong in this country, in Iraq, all over the world for 51% of the country to wake up? Took a bomb in Iraq's backyards to get them...hope it doesn't get to that here.
For those who haven't seen that priceless cover, it's on my blog here.
A colleague at work printed that for me today, in color. But I don't think the people who voted in the bloodlust of antigay bigortry -- and tax cuts! -- are dumb. They're propagandized and filled wotj fear and rage.
Doesn't make any of us queers any less a target in these United States. But, hey, Republicans, enjoy your bigotry-borne tax cuts!
Wishful, spot on. I've been arguing point number 2 with folks for a while. I think even my Catholic parents see the wisdom in that approach.
aquaman-nice thoughts. just thought I'd let you know someone caught that.
Certainly, there are some times to let things be, and focus on other things. I'm not sure if this is the case here.
(my thought on this for the interested.)
At the least, we've got to think about innauguration day. And maybe this means something outside the usual sort of protests.
Maybe a mass reading of "The Pet Goat?" Or, perhaps a 30 minute version of the Bush years, 2000-2004?
Lone Star Liberal and Stinky: There already IS an outstanding website about Jesus being a Liberal. It is Ray Dubuque's site
Liberals Like Christ
Check it out. No point in re-inventing the wheel...
cs at 11:54, thanks for that link, great article.
But, hey, Republicans, enjoy your bigotry-borne tax cuts!
And, perhaps more to the point for most voters: Enjoy your unemployment as your jobs are outsourced, secure in the knowledge that queers cannot "desecrate" marriage!
And when you buy your kids some presents, be sure to shop at Wal-Mart.
I think that it's great that the DNC learned to use the internet as a cash cow. Who was giving all that money on the internet at $25 and $50 a pop? Hint: it wasn't big business, it was US. Isn't it better to have the DNC beholden to us little guys? With the internet to bring us together, suddenly we, well, have the power.
"Clinton and Carville win election."
More nonsense. Clinton won his elections - period! Carville is not incompetent, but he would be nothing without Clinton's amazing campaigning. That is why Clinton won, not because he acted like a Republican. The "corporate and capital punishment friendly" platform is not a winner for the Democratic party. If we act like Republicans, we LOSE! Wake up!
"You know what would scare the GOP the most?
Sliding up to a reasonable Christian and finding out more about them."
I am confidant that I would find very little that is actually "Christian" and much that is bigoted and hateful and irrational.
Sorry, but anyone who voted for Bush in this election is beyond hope.
The LAST thing we need to do is have some sort of retarded "dialogue" with the right.
Learn from them. They must be doing something right; they control the entire government. They don't "dialogue" with their opponent. They HATE their ENEMY.
I'm afraid that we might have to take a similar approach. These people are not our friends, not even potentially. Fuck them and their superstition and bigotry.
If I may, two short stories:
We rescue animals. One of my good Christian repug neighbors saw me with a dog I was trying to place and said someone should paste a picture of a lollipop (sucker) on my door. I smiled and said I was just being a good Christian and feeding the hungry. Wiped the grin off her face immediately. Stopped her dead in her tracks.
I went to a protest at a baseball game against a college player who kidnapped and skinned a live cat. He enjoyed the "boys will be boys" mantra from the powers that be and went off to play his next game. The people attending the game laughed at all the signs until they reached mine at the end which said "What would Jesus think?" Wiped the smiles right off their faces. Stopped them dead in their tracks.
Wiped their snotty smiles and stopped them in their tracks. Hmmm. Definitely something that can be useful for a political party.
By the way, I am not a Christian, but my values and morals are just fine, thank you.
I don't think so. All the things you've mentioned are system supportive - or taking on the beast as it exists instead of taking it apart and reconfiguring the gears which is what needs to be done. The first thing is to know history. Without looking at all the different ways the right built their base over the last thirty years, we're not going to accomplish anything. Some people already know this, but unless we're looking across the whole field, we're still open to get sacked.
After that, we've got to really go out and change people. Framing the debate is one thing, but actually weening people off this stuff is going to be hard. It means completely changing the terms of the debate from the ground up. Writing letters is nice, but so many people are absolutely convinced that liberals are the cause of everything wrong with their life, and if things get worse, they're only going to lash back harder.
It can be done. The examples are all there. There's a lot of work to be done though. It's very encouraging that a lot of people want to do it, and hopefully a lot of people want to fund it. The best advice is definitely take some time off and rest. Work hard and save up - you'll need it. There are some wonderful people putting in long hours to set up the infrastructure so that people can fit in and do work and have it pay off, but we're not there yet. But it's coming, don't worry.
Nothing changes until you change hearts and minds. For those who voted due to prejudice, those who voted for fear, those who voted for personal gain, for those who voted as followers, for those who voted for faith. And more.
Toss the chess pieces around, encircle one camp until they break loose and you are yourself encircled, then do it all again.
You have too many places that have been insular and permitted to froth at the mouth about anything different from themselves.
You have to remove fear, show the consequences of unbridled self gain, convert the bigot, provide self-reliance to the led and bind faith into ssomething that is inspired and not dogma.
Pastabagel. Now there's a troll. Take notes, Gordon.
geor3ge | Email | Homepage | 11.05.04 - 12:16 am | #
Sigh.
Would a troll write this to cheer your side up when all your left-wing blogs went silent?
Go ahead, call me a troll if that cheers you up, or helps you to feel superior.
Let me explain something to you. There exists a strategy that can win you the house in 2006 and the presidency in 2008. Do you understand that?
That stategy isn't name calling or teasing people in red states or all the other crap that seems to be part of the dysfunctional grieving process around here.
Here's a question: do you know how Karl Rove planned for this election? Do you know his strategy? Do jsut blurt out "he stole it" because that's how I know you're an idiot. Think. What data did he look at? How did he reach people? How did he turn them out? THINK ABOUT THIS.
Bush's ideas aren't really new, but Rove's strategy was. By contrast, Kerry's strategy was textbook 1980's politics - urban, interest groups, unions, blah blah. Rove accounted for that and had a counterstrategy.
This is problem solving. You don't copy the opponent's goals if you don't believe in them, but the tactics and strategy are fair game.
THEY CALL ME PASTABAGEL
Also, you wonder why you lost, look at how many anti-gay and anti-women comments there are in this thread alone from some of the pro-kerry regulars.
THEY CALL ME PASTABAGEL
"a college player who kidnapped and skinned a live cat"
The fact that such a thing could actually occur makes me write off humanity.
The human being is just a fucked-up animal. Just the fact that pieces of shit like this exist is proof of that.
There is no hope.
Haven't read the thread - Respoding to the thread topic - I disagree - We have to write letters to the media - get back to Plame - That CIA reprot on 9/11 that was being suppressed 'til after the election - Could we see it please! Cheney Haliburton Iraq!!!
Brits gotta' be pissed 3 of their boys had to die for Bush today
This doesn't fucking end here or take a holiday - They never sleep!
Jasin, you're confusing the people who buy the propaganda with those who spout it, not to mention showing your complete contempt for those who are spiritual. (See that? I didn't use the word "religious," are you paying attention?)
Not a dialogue with those who are fundamentalist and really do hate gays.
Divide them from those who would respond to a reframed message. Is it pure illusion to think everybody in the heartland cares more about gay marriage and abortion than the more important values, such as mercy, helping the poor, accountability in government, truth in the media, etc.
But when some smartass atheist looks down their nose at them and acts like he/she is better than they are, that smartass atheist is just buying into the frame that the GOP would LOVE to perpetuate.
That's just one part of the strategy -- reframing the message, and reframing the GOP.
Another part of the strategy is to wage total war on the corporate media. I loved the idea of Judy Woodruff finding 1000 pieces of mail in her box every day.
We can chew gum and walk at the same time. We can co-opt the Republican base without becoming Republicans, AND destroy the corporate media at the same time.
Let's take a reasonable amount of time to reflect, but then let's regroup and wage war. Because that's what the GOP operatives surely are getting ready to do. I don't disagree that it's fascism. But that's not the point. We have to redefine our strategy, or it really WILL become a fascist system.
The abortion debate should be framed as a "freedom from govt. intrusion" debate. Get the govt. out of our bedrooms and bodies and patient-doctor decisions. Who wants big brother govt. telling us how to live our lives? It's a frame that works for most Americans irrespective of party.
Democrats should also target the hunter/fisherman crowd as a piece of the electorate to win over by supporting gun rights and the healthy environment needed to sustain hunting and fishing. Dems should be pro-active on these issues from the sportsman's perspective. They are a huge constituency and one dems could win over.
Gay issues should also be framed in terms of freedom from govt. intrusion into people's private lives. And as a state's rights issue. And as a fairness and tolerance issue. Everyone knows gay people and most can feel compassion toward at least those they know personally, even if they are otherwise not accepting of it in the abstract. No one has done this effectively.
Democratic values are American values, right to the core. They just don't get pitched in the right way to make that clear. The fundies have so perverted the GOP and their values that we can legitimately claim to be the protectors of American values, not them.
This is from Democarticunderground.com:
GAHANNA, OHIO - GHOSTS GET TO VOTE
Go to:
http://
www.franklincountyohio.go...officialResul...
Page 23
Gahanna 1-B
4,258 - Bush
260 - Kerry
But suprisingly enough there is not a SINGLE place you can find these 4,000 voters reappear.
Not on page 23 with the senate race
Not on page 90 for county commissioner
Not on page 129 for Sheriff, County Recorder, Treasurer, Engineer, Corner, Board of Ed, or supreme court justice.
Not on page 168
Not on page 207
Drum roll please!!!
Prop 1 on page 285. Gay Unions. The wonderful hate clause that every Bush zombie is voting for. WOW! Those 4,000 voters didn't vote for this either? Crazy crazy!
Now a little more detective work.
http://www.gahanna.org/community...ile/
default.asp
The City of Gahanna website.
33,000 estimated population
29% 18 or younger.
Leaves 20,130 people elligible to vote (except I missed the 18 year olds here)
Now back to the other document and go to page 23. Add up the totals in each Gahanna district.
Gahanna 1 - 8192
Gahanna 2 - 4143
Gahanna 3 - 4210
Gahanna 4 - 4191
Grand total: 20,736
Now that's what I call voter turn out! They did better than 100% I obviously needed their secrets so we can use their voter turn out methods in 2008. (haha)
So I decided to give them a phone call and see what was up! Mayors office didn't really want to talk to me. So I decided to lie and say I was with the press. The city councilman I talked to told me they have about 70% voter registration, but no, no where near 100%.
70% voter registration sounds reasonable. So that means out of 20,130 elligeable aged voters 14,091 are registered.
Wow.. that's 47% more voters than possible registered voters.. Interesting huh?
He could tell at this point that I wasn't with the press. I don't know how to "pretend" to be with the press. I just wanted to talk with someone. I asked if they have electronic voting machines but he hung up on me.
Basically, I'm so far from a conspiracy theorist and would normally laugh at the notion that someone would cheat in an election like this. Apparently I was just nieve. How many other votes are slipped in here or there. Someplace unnoticable.
This was an obvious flaw.. but how about the not so obvious?
It truly sickens me. Turns my stomach."
There is no hope.
You're wrong. Some of us -- many of us -- are targets of the regime, but we stil still know: Si, se puede.
Because there are many of us. There are, at the very least, 55 million of us. And more throughout the world -- and millions more in this country whose votes have not been counted.
Si, se puede. It always was going to be a long fight. Our ancesors taught us; we learned well from them.
Atrios, you're dead wrong about the timing.
*Now* is the time to revive organizations, not when they are old and stale and the elections are long past.
This is a fundamental proven principle of marketing. I used to be VP of a travel company. You know the best time to sell somebody a cruise? The day they come back from one.
We have the immediacy *now* and we need to use it.
Start with Ducks Unlimited. They have been around for decades and dedicated to preserving wetlands and habitat. After all, no wetlands, no ducks.
monica,
It's only a long fight if you attempt to do it on your "enemy's" terms. Change the game. Isn't this what the Republicans did and continue to do? Don't try and use their terms, they've proven over and over that you'll loose.
Make them loose now.
Personally, I'm wearing my Kerry button. Not because I have any fantasies about Ohio suddenly flippin back, but as a basic gesture of defiance. So far, I've had three complete strangers walk up to me since Tuesday and strike up a conversation about it.
Of course, it's a lot safer to do that in New York than if I lived in, say, Texas or Utah.
Starve the Republican Beast
In thinking over what worked on this election cycle the quickly organized campaign on Sinclair advertisers has to stand out. I think it could perhaps be adopted for use in the next four years as kind of a campaign of starving republican campaign funds.
A very quick investigation on the net suggests for example Walmart for example has become a major contributor to republican causes, where as Target or Costco are not. In computers, Dell appears to give about 70% republican, whereas HP is about 60% democratic (Apple appears to be even better, with donations to moveon and many other progressive causes).
What I think maybe should be done, in a similar manner to the Sinclair pressure, is have a
Mini boycott of the Month. Pick an area each month, for example on month may be Retail (Walmart, Target, Kmart), the next computing (Dell, Gateway, HP, Apple), family dining (Olive Garden, Applebee's, ...) . Then each month research carefully and say which are the best and the worst in terms of how either a pac of the companies, or officers of the company donated their funds. Tell people to boycott the worst for a month in favor of their competitor and better yet tell both why.
None of these can walk away from anywhere close to half their customers. I think this would have them think twice about who they donate to only one party if everyone knows it.
Pastabagel, you've been a troll since the day you showed up here, you stupid cunt. I don't need to call you a troll to feel superior; I simply have to read your miserable posts.
And unlike your readers, who quickly move on to blogs that aren't fucking awful, there are many of us who've been here long enough to recall your entire shameful posting history. So don't expect us to believe that by sticking feathers up your ass you've become a chicken. You're not trying to point us to a winning strategy, you're spreading ridiculous Rovian spin.
Bonus fun fact: did you know that Pastabagel is so afraid of having his name linked to the bullshit he posts that he actually pays for a service to scrub his domain's whois record? From now on I call you PASTACOWARD.
Major Tom - I took the time to check Ohio county by county and compare number of eligible voters and %age that voted - I found almost uniformly that in the counties that voted for Bush voter turnout was between 60 and 70 percent - In the the counties that voted Kerry the turnout was between 50 and 60 percent.
My question is for someone on the ground in these Ohio counties - Scioto, Lucas, Lorain, Summit and lots more - compare the numbers of EV's and percentage that voted in Dem leaning areas - was the vote stolen?
Anyone reading this blog on the ground in those places?
Why does it have to be so complicated? We are the party that will reach out with open arms to your children if, God forbid, circumstances should leave them hungry or homeless. That's what liberals do.
Money (not economics) is one of your big keys.
Here's a couple of snippets to ponder
http://tinyurl.com/5wpvt
"...But most agree that a tipping point is not far off.
That will come when foreign investment in the United States slackens,
and is diverted instead to stronger currencies like the euro, whose
value relative to the dollar has risen 40 percent.
The risk is a sudden shift in investor preference. "A more mature
China central bank could decide to diversify," said Mark Zandi, chief
economist for Economy.com."
Whose dollar will be used? If not the US then what will this do to the US $??
http://tinyurl.com/6j66l
"China's oil giant Sinopec Group has signed a $70 billion oil and
natural gas agreement with Iran.
The deal is China's biggest energy agreement with one of the major
Opec producers, the Chinese news agency Xinhuanet reported.
Under a memorandum of understanding signed on Thursday, Sinopec Group
will buy 250 million tonnes of liquefied natural gas over 30 years
from Iran and develop the giant Yadavaran field, said the news agency."
With respect, this is all so much whistling past the graveyard. We have to make voting transparency issue number one, or we will never again win any election the Republicans don't let us win.
Fighting any or every other issue will be unavailing if the black box machines are rigged (as the Ohio and Florida exit poll/vote count disparities suggest they were Tuesday). And even if they weren't rigged this time, it's just too easy to fine tune the result, and partisans always will be in control of counting the vote.
Transparency in voting is so obviously the American way--an embodiment of our core values and a matter of fundamental fairness, not to mention common sense, good management, and economy--that the dangerous partisanship of those who build and program these machines is an issue that shouldn't even have to be reached, in deciding to require an honest paper trail from the machines that tabulate our elections.
Moreover, even with no hanky panky, the black boxes' error rates are many times higher than much cheaper systems that use paper ballots and optical scanners. Every poster here knows this, but most voters don't.
Right now we have to spend and fight for paper ballots, or at least paper trails. It is insane that we used machines which left no record after the fractious 2000 election (and why John Kerry gave up instead of fighting to force the spotlight for a few days onto this scandal, this dagger in America's heart, is incomprehensible to me).
Whatever other issues our elected officials care about are less important than this one. The principals and affiliates of the four companies that make the black box machines are Dominionist extremists, who advocate a Christian version of the Taliban. They will have it, unless we stop them in the next election. We would not let Islamist extremists program and run our voting machines, so how can we let Christian extremists do it?
For the last twenty-five years, the religious right has been slowly gaining control of every legislature in America. After Tuesday, they are five Senate votes away from a filibuster-proof majority, which will complete their hostile takeover of federal, state and local government. After they get those Senate seats in a mid-term election that only partisans care about, our lives will be in their hands. Read their manifestos again and see if Pastor Niemoeller's poem doesn't come to mind.
In short, the extremists who build and run the black box voting machines will have their theocracy in short order, unless we galvanize the vast supermajority of Americans whom they threaten. It won't matter how much Democrats improve at articulating values and running the right people in tough, smart campaigns if we don't get transparency in voting.
This issue has to become a public outcry, as "unsexy" as it sounds. A people with nothing to hide count their votes in the sunshine. We're Americans, dammit! A free people who do o
We're Americans, dammit! A free people who do our business fairly. The Republicans have to be shamed into dumping these machines or at least generating receipts or a paper trail.
We pride ourselves on "free and fair elections," and no Republican I've spoken to has argued against this point with me. They cannot. It's a values argument, one that true Republicans understand and respond to. "As Americans, we love and honor our freedom. We have real elections here, not fake ones like the communists used to stage."
And, for the Neo-Republicans, who are name-calling bullies, it's also a macho dare, the kind that bullies can't back down from. "Hey. whatcha hiding in there? I bet you're hiding something. If you're not hiding something, you won't mind if I have a look around. Hmm, if you won't let me look, you must be hiding something."
This is issue number one, and it is not alarmist to suggest that we are already fighting a rear guard action. The religious right's twenty-five year creeping tender offer and hostile takeover is all but completed. If we get transparency in voting, Democrats will be in a position to win enough votes and elections to hold back the fall of night. If we don't, the Republicans are five Senators away from total control of all branches of the federal government.
The 2006 elections can be like Bastogne, where we hold on until the Third Army arrives, or like Masada, where the freedom fighters get wiped out. This is our choice, stark and horrifying. We all must face it, deal with it and act on it, or the Republic is dead, period.
We've got two years.
So where is that CIA report on 9/11 - What the fuck is holding it up?
"you're confusing the people who buy the propaganda with those who spout it"
There is a logical distinction to be made there, but practically it is of little value.
These people buy the propoganda because they want to believe it, because it appeals to something deep inside them (i.e., hatred of the other).
The sad fact is that there is a portion of the population that responds to this kind of thing. Always has been. If you can stand another Nazi analogy, this is the same thing that allowed the Nazis to happen.
I think our only chance is to start putting something in the water in red states that will make them sterile.
I wish I was kidding.
What's the matter, PASTACOWARD, cat got your tongue?
Good.
That was just 2 minutes' worth of digging. Pester us again and I'll work harder.
Bonus fun fact: did you know that Pastabagel is so afraid of having his name linked to the bullshit he posts that he actually pays for a service to scrub his domain's whois record? From now on I call you PASTACOWARD.
Listen, dummy, the fact that you went looking for my name justfies my hiding it.
And didn't your beloved atrios keep his identity a secret for a few years?
THEY CALL ME PASTABAGEL
What we need is Al Gore 2008. He was against the war in Iraq from the beginning, against the Patriot Act, he can appeal to liberals and moderates with ease, win over swing voters, and he was also elected once before. He can do it again. Al Gore in 2008!
now that is almost laughable.
the demfascists allowed the confirmation of porter goss without dispute.
ask why the demfascists joined with the repfascists, here.
anyway, now that bush became reelected...you won't be seeing any more 11/09/01 stuff. that chapter has been closed.
and by the way, whatever you think you know, you don't know it. especially if what you think you know was the product of the bushstate.
nothing that you think that you know about that day is true.
but i understand, bush makes you feel so warm and fuzzy.
but never forget, he was the murderer that day.
over time, that will become revealed.
sieg heil, mein fuhrer.
Here's an idea.
Since the republicans are businessmen, they conduct meetings between themselves just to plan what they do. I think, we as people, should start to conduct meetings-but i'm not talking about meetings as "business" or "what to do next"; I mean, copy a playbook from the 2000 election. Beat them at their own game, they stole an election-we investigate the hell out the polling places even though we figure out first why big companies like diebold and choicepoint commit crimes, we copy them. We take meetings and plan our attack. We kill their plan.
Here is my TWELVE STEP PROGRAM FOR RECOVERING DEMOCRATS:
http://drdem.blogspot.com/
Please check it out and pass it around the team.
What makes you hide your name, Pastabagel, is that you're a coward. Think I won't be able to find out more?
So where is that CIA report on 9/11 - What the fuck is holding it up?
Porter Goss.
He's new on the job, so he's taking a little longer to figure out how to do a whitewash.
I want to see Kerry in handcuffs, he is a traitor.
Book em Dano!
God bless the Swift Boat Vets and God Bless George W. Bush, our President.
Thank God it's not Skerry the traitor.
Book em Dano!
God bless the Swift Boat Vets and God Bless George W. Bush, our President.
Thank God it's not Skerry the traitor.
Book em Dano!
How about boycotting businesses in the red states? I know a lot of people make purchases over the internet. Check where the business is before you buy.
Well, all very entertaining, except for the idjuts of course.
But really, get a grip people. Take a day or two, okay, take the rest of the week off. Then get busy. I said late Tue night when they put up those FL #'s that something was wrong there. And Ohio #'s defied everything we have seen on the "numbers" there too. So, they stole another one. And bush remains the absolute worst president ever.
And we have got to stop disemboweling ourselves. John Kerry probably won this election, but there's not a lot we can do about it, except not accept those pronouncements. Undermine his legitimacy at all turns. Smear some of them, whisper campaigns, like they did to Mongiordo in KY. He was ahead because of Bunning's mental failings, then the week before they start the insidious gay suggestings, a limp handshake blah blah.
They are coming after blogsnext, people, so start thinking of ways to defend us.
One of the strengths of the gopper machine is that they know what to do. Well, so do we. Stop shopping at wal mart, stop buying ge, stop buying suv's. Write some letters to the editors asking what's wrong with people paying their taxes. Republicans are freeloaders if they don't want to pay taxes. Te=hey benefit from the taxes don't they, who do you think pays for the military or the border patrol or the interstates? Or FEMA next blizzard, tornado, earthquake, oil spill?
Start raising questions, planting seeds of doubt, stop contributing to the gop machine, stop buying their fucking crap. Who has more values, ann bomb the NYT harpie, or Elizabeth Edwards? Repeat it. Does a good man kill innocent civilians in a reckless and thoughtless manner? Does a good man, a leader of men, tolerate slanders on other good men he may lead? Christ, I've got more values in my crooked bird finger (and getting more crooked as I flip off every suv and/or bush bumper sticker I see) than the whole bush crew.
I like this man date thing. A childish play on words, but it clearly disturbs some of his believers. Sow that doubt. And lets start getting some normal people on school boards shall we?
Didn't think I would ever say it, but Atrios I think you are completely wrong. The problem will not be addressed building new institutions. First, Democrats need a new language that captures their nature expressing their VALUES of equality, tolerence, community, intelligence, enlightment, while at the same time exposing the repukelican values for what they are: divisive, exclusive, exploitive, violent - A CULTURE OF FEAR.
And Dean did not implode, he was torpedoed precisely because he was beginning to capture the new language the new democrats need.
Click the link. There is something very important we need to do RIGHT NOW.
I was in both Florida and Ohio over the last week, and I can tell you that a good many people believe this election was stolen right under their very noses, no question about it. Right now, I actually mean yesterday, we need experts digging hard and long into this vote (mostly computer experts). Otherwise, 2006 and 2008 will simply be more of the same. Bet on it.
The sad thing is that we had people on the ground and in the air who were ready to go, including lawyers like myself; however, Kerry sent us all home, and very disappointed, I might add. The same was true with regard to the highly dedicated and motivated Kerry people in Florida. "He (Kerry) didn't want to be responsible for terrible unrest in the country that might ensue if he were to claim state-wide election fraud."
Needless to say, I feel abandoned by Kerry, and particularly Mr. John Edwards, who is the biggest coward within the entire Democratic Party.
Need to catch some sleep now. Good morning all.
yes, that is true.
john kerry was trotted out so as to kill howard dean.
howard dean was feared..
the saddest aspect of all of this is that there is a block of voters that thought john kerry was a straight candidate.
yalies. they are the problem. let us consider them...
george bush
john kerry
howard dean
porter goss
john ashcroft
dick cheney
bill clinton
hillary clinton
etc etc etc
come on folks. renounce yalies. now and forever.
shoot them while you can still own a pistol, rifle.
so it goes...
I definitely think we should keep on running ads.
But I think we should give it a rest until Inauguration Day.
Why? Not because I think the message is wrong, but because I think no one is paying attention.
Voters - including myself - are suffering fatigue. We've been through the Dem primary season and then the past 6 months of republican smears.
Our brains can't process, we'd encounter resistance.
Timing is important as well. So let's start early next year. Not today, though.
I Love the "Jesus was a Liberal" campaign idea. Can moveon or someone like that fund this sort of media blitz, nation wide? And maybe we can broaden our appeal with spots that make it clear that this is more than just about Christianity or Judaeo Christianity... Maybe having people read the writings of "founding Fathers" (wish there were more mothers) that make it clear that a discourse of rights is fundamental to our tradition. I guess we'd have to gloss over the slavery issue... But still...
SEE BELOW FOR QUOTE.
"One idea I've had floating around: Jesus Was a Liberal. I don't know if any of you have read Emmet Fox' "Sermon on the Mount" but it is an inspiring analysis of one of the greatest texts in the bible. The ideas could not be more in keeping with Democratic principles or further away from Republican hatefulness (I'm sorry but I don't think Jesus would have laughed about a woman about to be executed, as Bush has done).
A Jesus Was a Liberal site/mini-movement might help reframe the debate on values. It probably wouldn't change the mind of too many Christian fundamentalists (and I'm not sure I'd want to take it into the churches of the deep south) but it might help some people--moderate voters, the mainstream media--to understand the inherent morality of liberalism."
Please, Please, Please!
Don't despair.
It ain't over till the Chad lady sings!
Check out my blog for details...or go straight to Daily Kos to read the recommended diaries about Ohio.
WE have to do the groundwork for the DNC. WE have to write and blog about the widespread fraud, undercounted votes, chads, electronic voting, etc.
Kerry couldn't stay in the race...because, at that point, he had no evidence.
It's up to US to provide it.
It's up to US to Mosh like Eminem.
It's up to US to force recounts and demand answers!
Please, Please, Please EVERYONE pick up your heads and get back to work. We have an election to re-win.
Why Are We Back In Iraq?
The real place to start is getting
control of the positions in swing
states that run the elections. The
secs of state. Find out everything
you can about them. Divorce, multiple
divorce? Maybe minor criminal offense,
no matter how far back in time. Use
their own tactics. But make sure not
to lie. The way to beat them is with
the truth, to drown them with the truth. They cannnot fight against truth. Keep it simple, to the point, backed up with facts that can be verified. Show them for what they are.
The grassroot movement is just that.
Start at grass level. Make sure all
elections are fair. Make known that
you wiil not challenge or bitch and
moan when you lose fairly. But also
let it be known, YOU will not stand
for any more bullshit like we've all
seen in the last two elections.
"Sinclair" the Congress
Privatize Social Security? Another Tax Cut?
Identify the problem reps and senators and do a "Sinclair" on them.
Daily Kos has moved Hunter's blog to the top of his website.
This is for real.
We need to mobilize. Start blogging.
The diarists have already picked up 4,000 more votes to add to Kerry's column.
(1) "Hello, Duncan. Yes, this is JFK. Listen, How about having your people cool it, OK? I know they're mad, but we have a plan. I've talked to President Bush and he has assured me that he truly will be a man of the people this time, a compassionate conservative, if you will.
And you know what, I believe him. He really is a great guy once you get to know him.
But boy, he better watch out if he tries to fool us again, by golly. He won't more than 35-40 democrat votes,
TOPS, if he tries to privatize SS or medicare. Same thing on conservative judges and more tax cuts.
Of course, if Iran really does have those WMD's that Colin and Dick are already calling us about - and the case sounds very strong to me - all bets are off..."
(2) (KNOCK KNOCK)
"Who's there?"
"Just open the damned door,
asshole"
(3) You're kidding!!!!! Right?
(it's satire of the Dana Milbank
variety?)
Yeah, try this website, it's a cool news blog based off the Drudge Report, it's called DILBY or Dilby Alternative
The Dilby News Monitor
www.dilby.com
Here are some Ohio election results. Can anyone add correctly?
"Muskingum County (zanesville)
Bush +3906
DEM +2635
End result Bush +5850
Licking County (Newark)
Bush +11722
DEM +6154
End result Bush +18700
Richland County (Mansfield)
Bush +6115
DEM +3484
End result Bush +12000
Here are some of the really eggregious ones.
Warren County (between Cincinati and Dayton)
Bush +18205
DEM +6257
End result Bush +41000
Butler County (Middleton )
Bush +20166
DEM +7795
End result Bush +52000"
"Franklin County, OH has posted the vote totals by precinct:
In the Gahanna 1-B precinct, Bush is credited with 4285 votes out of 638 votes cast. Yes, that's right, 4,285 out of 638 total votes cast.
This, of course, pads Bush's Ohio numbers by almost 4000. There are also 87 write-in votes, which is way out of line with the typical precinct, and the absentee ballots appear to have been counted twice, or the wrong totals are given for half of them. Who knows?
Here's something from CNN.com:
Muskingum
Updated: 2:52 p.m. ET
Bush
(Incumbent)
21,901 58% 100% of precincts reporting
Kerry
16,050 42%
Peroutka
99 0%
Badnarik
79 0%
Difference between Bush and Kerry- 5851
It also shows a 4,000 vote problem in that precinct. There are 4,000 more votes than voters. There are also 4,000 votes more for all presidential candidates than there are all Senatorial candidates.
Bush had a landslide in that precinct...
There is more:
"http://www.franklincountyohio.gov/boe/
04UnofficialResults/Unofficial%20Abstract%20of%
20Votes%20General%202004.pdf
Check out the presidential totals for precinct Gahana 1 (pg. 23):
The Libertarian: 13
Bush/Cheney: 6253
Kerry/Edwards: 1916
Constitutional Party: 10
Now, check out the senatorial vote in that precinct:
Republican: 2848
Democrat: 1259
Do you think that 4000 people voted for Bush and just skipped the senatorial vote? Not likely...
How many registered voters were there in the precinct? 4346"
"Now, let's talk about Florida, and particularly the Maimi-Dade Counties.
For some inexplicable reasons, it seems that a number of very heavily democratic precincts in Miami-Dade county had turnouts of less than 50%, or even less than 40%. On the other hand, turnout for the whole county was slightly over 68%.
Check out the numbers below. But remember, "the turnout percentage indicates the number of actual voters in comparison to registered voters. In other words, in these precincts, more than half the people who went through the trouble of registering to vote did not bother to show up at the polls in these precincts." Perhaps, they were all very tired Tuuesday night?
Could Jeb have conducted a massive voter suppression operation that slipped under the radar?
Here are some other important numbers:
"Precinct 513 voted 97% for Kerry, but only had 46% turnout.
Precinct 514 voted 94% for Kerry, but only had 40% turnout.
Precinc
Ron B., I posted that for you. I'm with you all the way. The fat lady hasn't yet sung.
YOU ARE NUTS if you think we can wait until January to do something.
We need to put 2-5 million people into DC in December, or Bush is going to eat our freedoms for breakfast, our soldier boys for lunch, and then come on by and blow our asses up for supper.
We WON the election by landslide. They stole at least 10 million votes, which is easy to do when the secret R software counts the votes, just the way they want them counted. Software tested and certified by another R company.
Ergo, R results.
They stole 2000, 2002, 2003 (here in California), and now 2004.
And it is MOOT. Because you cannot elect yourself out of TREASON CHARGES (or, in the mildest instance, impeachment for negligence) for arming of our enemies.
Bush and his admin have hung themselves on their own petard, but the people have to DEMAND JUSTICE, now.
If you take your nap now, get ready to get your asses blown out of their chairs by Karl Rove's Early January Surprise.
--
"the house alone has the power to impeach the president...--georg_cantor"
The House derives its mandate from THE PEOPLE. It is OUR right of impeachment that the House manifests.
The Iraq war planners in the Bush administration, and the C-in-C himself, have commited acts of treason, in the specific case of arming our enemies with unknown amounts of cesium and strontium, 650,000 pounds of ammunition (especially while we have troops 'in the vicinity'), and 380 TONS of high melting point explosives designed for nukes, hijackings, demolition of buildings, and carbombs.
So what the fuck is there to talk about?
We are not going to spend the next four years having our poodles fucked by these traitors. Treason in the Constitution is specfically defined:
"Section 3. Treason
1. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in giving" ... (our enemies) aid ....
If 380 TONS of high explosives isn't our definition of aid, then we've got more than votes missing in our party.
--
Rest? We can't rest. That's the wonderful thing about the current state of the Republican party. They're either a) zealots who never rest because they're acting on marching orders from god, or b) Large business types who realize that people get fatigued and lazy. We can't stop now. We have to keep raising flags at every opportunity.
Let's face it: liberals, new Dems, and all others who are center and left-of-center are easily moved to apathy and dispair. I'm calling b.s. on this one right now. There's much we can do. Right now! Begin sowing seeds of doubt about the Reps' policies. Continue asking how they will erode personal freedoms. Keep pointing out their cozy relationship with big business, and make noise about the true foe of the small business owner--big business.
We've got the opportunity for some good in-roads. Let's not lose them because we decided to hold off on our new branding campaign until after the inaguration.
America believes we can fight our way to prosperity. The military/industrial complex is our LAST RESORT FOR INDUSTRY.
Namely, we sold off nearly our entire industrial base except for military stuff.
If we don't have eternal war, our final industrial activity collapses and our economy dies.
Debt: this military machine runs on red ink. To pay for it, America has been lured into a trap: the Asian empires of Japan and China, to build their industrial power, have decided to prop up the dollar which is essentially worthless and to fund the government of America IN ORDER TO KEEP OUR INDUSTRIAL BASE DEAD.
They allow America to spend like fiends and go to war endlessly knowing that this does two things: makes America the international demon and prevents America from fixing trade problems!
NO AMERICAN PARTY WANTS TO STOP THIS.
Dean recognized this and made "balance the budget" and "no more war" his twin appeals. He was mocked and demonized by the media. The military/industrial complex freaked out when they saw his rising popularity.
He is still here and if we want to be saved we better support Dean 100% because it isn't about winning elections, this is about WWIII and America going bankrupt.
In twenty years, 80% of America will be killed during WWIII. So this is literally life and death. Today, Bush will call on Congress and the press won't trumpet this, he will ask them to raise the debt ceiling to 8 trillion dollars. Gads!
Then next Monday he will issue $150 billion in bonds and ask the Chinese and Japanese empires to buy all of them. In three months he will peddle another $300 billion and by the end of the year it will be about $650 billion in bonds sold to our rivals who are destroying our industrial base.
The red ink helps the Bush states because they pay little in taxes and collect much in federal military funds. So they need war and need this to continue forever if possible.
Problem here: the Chinese are doing this temporarily until they build enough power and destroy our infrastructure enough to then tell us, "we aren't buying anymore bonds" and then dump the bonds in their hands on the market causing us to go bankrupt.
China has 24% of the earth's population and uses only 10% of the earth's resources. We have less than 8% of the earth's population and use 24% of the earth's resources. China has made it clear they want to use at least 24% of the resources and they mean business.
I can't tell you how doomed we are. We are seriously doomed.
"I can't tell you how doomed we are. We are seriously doomed.--Elaine Supkis"
Elaine, choose the most dire scenario you can imagine, and then self-immolate.
The rest of us recognize that this coup has managed what it has by burning its credibility to the ground.
The Dems are corrupted by our system, but they are not the ones working to tear down the environment and all the rest. Hysteria will get us nowhere, and your own example PROVES how USELESS such leftist overgeneralizations are.
We need to get rid of a specific group of maybe 300 people in government. It is not an impossible task, but it resides in restoring our voting system, not in blowing your mind on the global picture and then failing to recover from the nosedive that induces.
We cannot restore the voting system until we IMPEACH the Bush admin for their treason.
Big tasks; not for the panicky.
--
Emmet Fox' "Sermon on the Mount" but it is an inspiring analysis of one of the greatest texts in the bible. The ideas could not be more in keeping with Democratic principles or further away from Republican hatefulness (I'm sorry but I don't think Jesus would have laughed about a woman about to be executed, as Bush has done).
great book, be sure also to see C.S. Lewis "The Hideous Strength"
the fundies are right, this is a battle between good and evil.
i was amazed how underutilized candidates' blogs were used to correct media misreporting. here candidates had a forum to directly say this or that outlet quoted me out of context or are mistating facts, and they didn't take the opportunity to do it. dean only did this once that i know of, but only after he had pulled out of the race. it's like they weren't aware of the power of the blogs as media watchdog. maddening. granted, they're unable correct ever distortion, that would take all day, but they could have tackled some of the biggies. who knows what effect this would have on media if candidates regularly called out their lies.
all of the candidates failed to recognize their blogs as an extension of their own voice. missed huge opportunities for personalization. it was almost like they were afraid to communicate through their own forum. like you say, usually, the only time they would address their blogs directly was during fund drives. hopefully next time, they'll realize the power of blogs as a vehicle for truth telling.
We have to both strengthen the progressive movement and weaken the social conservative movement.
Since there are no other issues with which to reach the evangelical voter, I think we have to look seriously at LEGAL vote suppression. Does a wedge issue exist that can weaken the coalition of the corporatists and the conservative churches? Something that can at least get them to stay home?
We've learned a lot about mobilizing. We need to look at the other side of the equation -- unmobilizing.
The wedge issue that will seperate the Repubs from their base is to stand aside and say "OK pack the supreme court and change Roe v Wade" We will not stand in your way. The Repubs won't do it. It would be suicide.
Often defeats turn out to be victories. Like the Goldwater debacle in '64. And, yes, we should emulate conservative movement and organize and focus ourselves singlemindedly for getting to majority status. Still, we have to understand that it was not only the conservatives themselves, it was also the events that conspired against Democrats: an unsuccesful war, a faltering economy, unbalanced public finances, a sharply polarized country. Sounds familiar? It's ok for the wingnuts to gloat: they have their triumph, their dream come true. Zealots are in hubristic charge. I just wonder if they'll enjoy this ride. Well, don't blame me, I voted for Kerry...
As much as I'd be tempted to move to Canada, I can't. But I don't want to be associated with the United States. So for the duration, I'm declaring myself a Virtual Canadian. See http://VirtualCanadian.org for details.
I forget.
Is Rush Limbaugh et al taking a vacation until 2005?
We need sustained ltte campaign, car window/bumper sticker campaign, and most importantly a series of media events -- the old AIM model, but without the shootouts. 
The fair elections push has to happen.
Economically, what can the average person, the person who ISN'T a college professor, do to defend themselves against a Bush-led economic melt-down?
'I am confidant that I would find very little that is actually "Christian" and much that is bigoted and hateful and irrational.
Sorry, but anyone who voted for Bush in this election is beyond hope.'
Jasin, it is people like you that lost this election. You are the bigot -- grow the fuck up.
I know all the news. I know all the facts. Being "reality-based" and seeing links to new news stories about the horrors of this administration doesn't feed my curiosity or ego or sense of intellectual superiority any more.
I've been a weak assed lurker on this site and other for months until tonight I wrapped myself in the bubble of like minded souls. I sent Kerry, the DNC and ACT over a grand total. BFD. We lost.
I am starting to come out of my shock and despair about the nightmare of four more year of this shit. I can't sit on the sidelines any longer.
I just had a great dinner conversation with a Republican (genus:californicus republicanus) friend of mine who was also sick about Bush and worried about the future.
A couple of ideas came out of this evenings conversation. We both want some way to get involved in changing the direction of the country we love before it's too late.
The first is that I am asking if there is anyone out here on the Island of Oahu who is interested in starting a non-partisan discussion group to see how we can save our country before we dont have a voice or a choice any longer. I'm not interested in rigid partisan ideaology or how one party can win in one district but reality-based discussions and action-plans based on what is best for America. All of us.
I love ya'all on this site (and all the Kossacks, too) but we need to find a new path that isn't based on anything that the Democratic Party has been (weakly) pushing these last four years.
So.. on the first idea I was asking if there is any interest from anyone out there on Oahu in starting an informal group to talk about how we move forward. I'd actually love to get as many Bush voters involved as I can. We can't demonize each other and hope to survive as a nation.
The second plan of action it a simple one on one, missionary model of targeting just one Bush voter and trying with patience, facts, compassion, understanding and even love to educate them about the truth of what is happening to our country and in the world. Yeah... I'm nuts I know.
The basis of plan 2 is that it is a proven fact that most Bush voters are misinformed, ignorant... uh.. how do I put this nicely... they don't know shit about what is REALLY going on.
If we yell at them and call them idiots and bigots they aren't going to think instantly "wow.. you're right! I'm an idiot!" They are going to want to hit us in the face. I am still idealistic enough to think that with some gentle education and understanding they might come to realize that there is a better path that the one that GW has us on.
(A side note...fuck the media, all of it. Don't even bother with it. TALK to humans that you see in the real world)
And hell... you know we might just learn something too. What is it that makes my neighbor believe that GW can keep him or her safe in this crazy world? What are they really afraid of? Why do they think that my gentle lovely
And hell... you know we might just learn something too. What is it that makes my neighbor believe that GW can keep him or her safe in this crazy world? What are they really afraid of? Why do they think that my gentle lovely lesbian sister is threat to their lifestyle? How do we save this nations soul?
Ah fuck.... I've had too much wine and I don't know shit about the "reality" of politics. I just think that if we don't reach out to each other now, no matter of our opinions and beliefs then we are heading toward a second American civil war.
Write me off, ignore me, help me, e-mail me. Whatever. We are at a crisis point in our nations history. GW thinks he has a mandate. I'm just some dude in Hawaii who wants to save Thomas Jefferson's America before it becomes something that we don't recognize at all.
Aloha
(sorry, this post is "late to the game") I don't plan on walknig away from the mess thrust upon us, in spite of all the crap I've taken from my Repug aquaintances since Tuesday. I remain proud to be Liberal, and I'm still going to write my letters and donate my time where I can and hope to build a better base in time for the next election cycle. Bush has no excuse now... the only thing he's inherited now is his own treachery for the last 4 years. And to boost my spirit in these trying times, I've done 2 things to make me feel better. 1. I put a nice, big colorful sign by my front door that says "Proud to be Liberal", and 2. I put a sign on my bathroom door that says... If you voted for Bush, you can't crap here. Your Asshole is in Washington. Anyway, thanks for still being here Atrios. I'll stick it out as long as you will.
And hell... you know we might just learn something too. What is it that makes my neighbor believe that GW can keep him or her safe in this crazy world? What are they really afraid of? Why do they think that my gentle lovely lesbian sister is threat to their lifestyle? How do we save this nations soul?
Ah fuck.... I've had too much wine and I don't know shit about the "reality" of politics. I just think that if we don't reach out to each other now, no matter of our opinions and beliefs then we are heading toward a second American civil war.
Write me off, ignore me, help me, e-mail me. Whatever. We are at a crisis point in our nations history. GW thinks he has a mandate. I'm just some dude in Hawaii who wants to save Thomas Jefferson's America before it becomes something that we don't recognize at all.
Aloha
And hell... you know we might just learn something too. What is it that makes my neighbor believe that GW can keep him or her safe in this crazy world? What are they really afraid of? Why do they think that my gentle lovely lesbian sister is threat to their lifestyle? How do we save this nations soul?
Ah fuck.... I've had too much wine and I don't know shit about the "reality" of politics. I just think that if we don't reach out to each other now, no matter of our opinions and beliefs then we are heading toward a second American civil war.
Write me off, ignore me, help me, e-mail me. Whatever. We are at a crisis point in our nations history. GW thinks he has a mandate. I'm just some dude in Hawaii who wants to save Thomas Jefferson's America before it becomes something that we don't recognize at all.
Aloha
Alderaan,
You're right, the Fambly Valyas types aren't 100% of the Bush coalition. I think it's a mistake to treat the Religious Right as an unstoppable juggernaut, or to write the Red States off as under its control. According to the exit polls, around 22% of voters were motivated mainly by "moral" issues. That translates into about 40% of the GOP vote.
I'll tell you something else: Karl Rove's fundies may have been energized to turn out heavy, but I'll bet there were millions of small government conservatives who don't like USA Patriot or the PNAC, who just stayed home in disgust. Bob Barr announced before the election that he wasn't voting for Bush. Most GOP voters who share his values probably couldn't bring them selves to vote for Badnarik. But they could decide there was no point in bothering to show up.
The worthless, beady-eyed little piece of shit yesterday was bragging about the political capital he acquired in the election. Well, he's already blown his political capital with certain segments of the right.
The anti-war, pro-civil liberties left needs to start making ad hoc alliances on these issues with the Bob Barr wing of the GOP. We need to be developing working relationships with Republicans who don't worship the perpetual warfare state. We need to be doing it like our lives depend on it, because they do.
We need to donate to the LA Senate campaing, that one isn't over yet and every seat counts!
SMASH YOUR TV.
And hell... you know we might just learn something too. What is it that makes my neighbor believe that GW can keep him or her safe in this crazy world? What are they really afraid of? Why do they think that my gentle lovely lesbian sister is threat to their lifestyle? How do we save this nations soul?
Ah fuck.... I've had too much wine and I don't know shit about the "reality" of politics. I just think that if we don't reach out to each other now, no matter of our opinions and beliefs then we are heading toward a second American civil war.
Write me off, ignore me, help me, e-mail me. Whatever. We are at a crisis point in our nations history. GW thinks he has a mandate. I'm just some dude in Hawaii who wants to save Thomas Jefferson's America before it becomes something that we don't recognize at all.
Aloha
I don't get it.
You all want to spend a whole load of money building and buying and testing new electronic machines.
What's wrong with you people ?
Don't you know how to read/write/add ?
Paper ballots work absolutely brilliantly, there's no stupid waiting for a machine, there's paper trails, audit trails, exit polls, it's all there and it all works.
Why do you insist on building a space ship to go do the weekly shopping, when all you need is a bicycle ?
Dumb.
Why do you insist on building a space ship to go do the weekly shopping, when all you need is a bicycle ?
We didn't insist on it.
During the Sinclair Boradcasting follies of the past few weeks, suggestions were made about using the public challenge process during license renewal as a way to make it incrementally difficult for the broadcaster to contiue airing its one-sided message.
In light of the election results, has anyone else been wondering about forming a nation-wide group or colition of individuals whose sole purpose would be to challenge license renewals (radio and TV) of those stations with strong conservative bias, especially those that become theocratic mouthpieces? It would be helpful to better understand precisely what actions are involved in making a challenge and discussing what skills sets are needed by a group whose purpose is to challenge, in the public interest, such renewals.
Cheers,
Carboy
Please, please PASS ALONG ...
Myself and a friend are in the early stages of a film asking, basically, "What is going on in the South?" We currently live in New York and work in independent film--him as a research/developer for one of the bigger small production studios, and me as a freelance animator/editor, most recently on a short documentary by Chris Hegedus about the Fox News vs. Al Franken lawsuit.
What we are most urgently looking for is footage is video footage of the South's reaction to the election--especially during this coming Sunday's church services and/or community gatherings of any sort. If you are in the South and are able and willing to supply us with anything at all, please do. We would be extremely grateful.
Please pass this request on to anyone you think can be of some help.
We are most interested in the less-documented of the states (ie. AL, AR, KS, KY, MS, MO, TN ... ), but will obviously take what we can get.
Participating filmmakers will of course be compensated for their work, and credit will be given. We are not looking to go this alone. Ideally we hope this project evolves into a collaborative effort.
For full, admittedly long-winded details, GO HERE: http://modernarthur.com/southernodyssey
We can be reached at: tom@modernarthur.com (Tom) and pmg0628@earthlink.net (Phil) -- Please address your e-mails to both of us.
Thank You,
Tom
We can't help but suspect that it will be an, uh...interesting next few years. A project of this nature, we believe, is overdue.
http://modernarthur.com/southernodyssey
Lone Star Liberal:
I think your point is excellent. One clarification though, to resonate with Christians:
Jesus IS a liberal.
Did he say anything about abortion? No.
Did he say anything about gays? No.
But he had plenty to say about pharisees and hypocrites and we have to get the point across that the rightwing religious types ARE pharisees.
During the Sinclair Boradcasting follies of the past few weeks, suggestions were made about using the public challenge process during license renewal as a way to make it incrementally difficult for the broadcaster to contiue airing its one-sided message.
In light of the election results, has anyone else been wondering about forming a nation-wide group or colition of individuals whose sole purpose would be to challenge license renewals (radio and TV) of those stations with strong conservative bias, especially those that become theocratic mouthpieces? It would be helpful to better understand precisely what actions are involved in making a challenge and discussing what skills sets are needed by a group whose purpose is to challenge, in the public interest, such renewals.
Cheers,
Carboy
mc | Email | Homepage | 11.05.04 - 10:42 am | #
I absolutely agree. We need to organize a few major groups: media protesters, organized boycotting, communications/public relations experts, etc.
I still say that all of the heads of the grassroots organizations need to meet together, along with leading authors (Thomas Frank, Paul Krugman, etc.) and Dems leaders and unify these orgs to increase energy and focus.
Wanna get active locally to build up the democratic wing of the Democratic party?
Join Democracy for America.
We have a meeting the first Wednesday of each month (check meetup.com)
probably near you. If not: start your own DFA meetup.
http://www.democracyforamerica.com
http://www.meetup.com
Do it NOW!
We're going to build the revolution from the bottom up!
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