I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Boycott Red state products whenever you can. Dell, for instance, is Texas based and their founder Michael Dell is a big Republican benefactor.
Time to really boycott as a group?
Netscape/CNN site calls Bush an a--hole!
We made Sinclair feel the pain, we can make CNN cry, too.
Or we could not give a fuck about the obsolete cable news media like we have been doing for the past five years.
I'd say make CNN cry. MSNBC is actually not bad, news wise, during the day, and Olbermann's show is a gem.
CNN is just pure crap these days. I can't stand the sound of wolfie's voice.
I dunno, maybe there's something, too, to the idea that liberals don't make good television performers a la Hannity, O'Reilly, and so forth.
Till we can hone our positions down to snappy phrases, liberals can come off kind of dull.
I agree, though, that there seems to be a potential market the cable newschannels are ignoring.
yes! boycott. hector, badger, stalk but when it comes down to it the only thing that talks is money... or the disappearance thereof. The right wingers did it when they were in the wilderness - that's how we got into this mess.
And then there is Air America, which has had good strong growth in the last six months. They have grown from 6 stations at launch to almost 40 stations now; in many markets they are outdrawing the conservative talk shows -- with the exception of Rush. Obviously, a liberal bent can be a money maker. I would just like to see CNN go back to the old mold where it just reported the news, but a liberal bent would be nice, though...
Air America's doing just fine. They are constantly adding affiliates. I realize that radio is different than TV, but there is an opportunity to be explored at the very least.
yes! boycott. hector, badger, stalk but when it comes down to it the only thing that talks is money... or the disappearance thereof. The right wingers did it when they were in the wilderness - that's how we got into this mess.
Boycott Dell.
Buy Apple.
CNN doesn't need to be liberal. What we need is real honest to god NEWS network.
CNN must shrivel and die on the vine.
CNN is worse than useless, it is a detriment to our society. It wouldn't be hard to send CNN down the tubes; they bring in 341,000 watchers per day and 45% of those watchers describe themselves as 'liberal.'
Paula Zahn, Daryn rushfucker, whazerface Crowley, Bill Schneider, all should be in the unemployment line. Tucker the bow-tied mommy's boy? Novak the Douchbag of Liberty?
Why do people watch that crap anyway?
I'm a much healthier person since I gave up my cable and returned to broadcast television, as God intended.
Whatever happened to that liberal station that Gore was gonna start? I'd love for that to start.
I used to get World News International on my cable, but it's not there anymore. I really need to call and find out what happened.
The lesson the Democratic Party needs to learn from Air America is that, yes, there actually is a market for a robustly progressive movement. Fuck this Repub-lite all-the-bullshit-and-only-half-the-evil crap.
Whatever happened to that liberal station that Gore was gonna start? I'd love for that to start.
I used to get World News International on my cable, but it's not there anymore. I really need to call and find out what happened.
this question has been posed by others lately, but... whatever happened to Al Gore's cable network project ?
And someone else brought up the idea of George Soros (& THK?) buying a cable network and turning it into a vid version of AAR (no Paula Zahn types, puleeze)
I rather like both Greta VS & OlberMensch -- but i'm freaky that way
OOPS, sorry for the double post. I forgot...
wow, Maggie -- we had a simultaneous thought
was it good for you? 
Very Zen of us Kim.
CNN just doesnt get it. Neither do the other news stations.
What you need for ratings is a cartoon-like atmosphere that entertains. It doesnt matter if its left or right. Just as long as they latch onto an issue, and act mad as hell about those 4-6 issues at all times, to the point of almost lunacy, it will make people stop flipping the channels to figure out "what's this guy so mad about?" THAT is how Fox gets its ratings. Its entertaining, whether you agree with them or not.
Its like seeing a train wreck, you cant help but look, even if you dont want to.
If all they want is ratings, then they have to get sensational, not more right or left wing, just sensational.
The problem is that Democrats (or those left leaning) typically feel that they are "above" the fray when it comes to stuff like this.
CNN just doesnt get it. Neither do the other news stations.
What you need for ratings is a cartoon-like atmosphere that entertains. It doesnt matter if its left or right. Just as long as they latch onto an issue, and act mad as hell about those 4-6 issues at all times, to the point of almost lunacy, it will make people stop flipping the channels to figure out "what's this guy so mad about?" THAT is how Fox gets its ratings. Its entertaining, whether you agree with them or not.
Its like seeing a train wreck, you cant help but look, even if you dont want to.
If all they want is ratings, then they have to get sensational, not more right or left wing, just sensational.
The problem is that Democrats (or those left leaning) typically feel that they are "above" the fray when it comes to stuff like this.
OlberMensch. That's great. He is a mensch, isn't he?
I also like Aaron Brown. He comes off as pretty straightforward to me.
Greed is the regression of capitalism. When you start measuring everything with money you get what we live with today.
Provoking an emotion sells. It sells with kids, because they are still in the emotional phase of their development. Unfortunately most adults never mature beyond their adolescence, mostly because we are not educated to know better.
Bill O’Reilly is the best example. Arrogant, opinionated, loud, ignorant and demented.
It is typical of his type to abuse their power and bully the weak. Look at the other icon Rush Limbaugh and his troubles.
But these guys live in this tension. The best remedy is tune them off and go about creating something new. They will go away by themselves once we have an alternative that attracts. You can only live in tension for so long!
John Sully, Randi Rhodes is beating RUsh in several markets.
I hadn't watched "Crossfire" in years and years until I saw a tape of Jon STewart bitch-slapping Tucker Carlson. I was struck by the "Network" quality of the program. There were the slick graphics, the jump cuts, the stupid sound effects, etc. But there were also the members of the studio audience, who looked as though they were mixing barbituates and amphetamines. It was truly, truly horrible. CNN got out of the news business a long time ago.
MSNBC SCARBOROUGH 0.7
Dang. If they measured how much someone sucks, he'd be waay up there. Poor little intern head-smasher.
The foxification of the media is a reality. But you can't out-fox fox.
Universal Broadband. That's how, after three generations of ad-soaked aliteracy, we turn off the tube and turn on The Word.
Atrios owes his readers an apology for his 'stay tuned' thread this afternoon. It exploited us at a time when we are particularly vulnerable. In a word it was :crap! Am I the only one upset by this?
Boycott red states and, above all, boycott the enablers on cable TV. All the butt-sniffers like Matthews, Fineman, Kondracke, Liasson, Juan Williams.. Just bid them all adieu! I made my vow on Tuesday night and I have reclaimed serenity in my home.
The cable news media IS the problem. No Democratic candidate can overcome the disadvantage of having the corporate cable networks shilling for the Republicans 24/7.
We need to take action against the media.
I can't listen to air america. I can, but it is constant work turning down the volume for every commercial break.
There is something self-defeating about a progressive liberal station that has to play the adverts that they do. it is like the green party taking advertising from the lumber companies.
that air america gets good ratings shows how much internet-blog-challenged libs are dying for their own media voice.
NPR should be our voice. they are funded by donations now, why can't they be our voice?
As loathesome as Fox News may be, it actually has much more "news" (scare quotes intended) than CNN or MSNBC. They are a lot like MTV, which doesn't seem to play music videos anymore.
Whenever I tune into CNN or MSNBC, there's often some long celebrity puff piece that's been repeated 5 times already, or some other super-soft time filler. Fox, on the other hand, has less of that. Fox broadcasts skewed, unreliable RNC talking points, but they do a better job of looking like professionals who are trying to inform their viewers.
"liberals don't make good television performers"
very true. conversely, frothy/screamy fascism makes for compelling theatre.
can you imagine bill moyer going all crazy/yelly? me neither. thinking things through generally makes one meditative and less hostile towards the opposing view. however, there is a line to be crossed and this election may have done it. now is the time to bring on the snarling dogs, i say! people seem to like watching it and apparently some of the shit sticks if you tune in enough.
News shouldn't be market oriented. The truth is the truth no matter what sells. And that's what we need to pound into them. Fox was always intended to be partisan, but CNN makes me puke. They're so busy trying to gain access to the Whitehouse while avoiding nasty letters from conservative hacks that they can't focus on the truth.
Journalism needs to form true standards of truth and peer review. I'm a CPA and CPA's have to submit to annual audits called peer reviews to make sure that we're following the standards of our profession. And while Andersen may have been a tad corrupt at the top, Wall Street lives and dies by what we say the numbers are.
Journalism needs to institute standards like that. Reality is objective and fact based and there is no reason that it can't be evaluated objectively. Forget ombudsmen. We need true accountability in journalism. We need punishment.
If a CPA breaks the rules, we can have our licenses revoked permanently and our careers ruined. Even minor infractions of mislabeling financial statements and not giving full disclosure can lead to fines and a public rebuke that any CPA can read. There is absolutely no reason journalists can't have a similar system.
NPR hired Tucker Carlson, didn't they? Or was that PBS?
I don't even want a liberal outlook (although I'm glad it's there and hope it sticks around)... I want a REAL news station. I want CNN before the McLaughlin Group changed news to "news". I don't care about objectivity so long as the truth can be obtained without showing both sides spin and saying, "Well, there you go."
Hasn't anyone caught Aaron Brown's change of attitude since the election? He's spent the last two nights sucking up to the Repubs after about 1 minute of independant journalism when he thought Kerry might win.
Take the blinders off, he's out to make a buck, just like the rest, especially those on cable news. Just because he SAYS he's better ..doesn't mean he is. We have to keep hammering them. Period.
CNN's been bent over hard right for what, five years? And they're still not attracting viewers so they're going to go further right? Is that even within the realm of possibility in this star system?
Guess what? Conservatives will never watch CNN. Ever.
And neither will the moderates and liberals that tuned out starting in about 1996 after they tired of the daily barrage of insulting pablum the network tried to pass off as "analysis".
Any network as pathetic and stupid as CNN deserves to die a slow, painful death.
Good riddance to bad rubbish. I'll stick to print media, the Internet, C-Span and CBC.
NPR should be our voice. they are funded by donations now, why can't they be our voice?
Hello! How much do you donate to NPR, as opposed to, say, Exxon?
Democracy Now! is a good news source.
I for one am done with cable & broadcast news forever. Fuck 'em. Ignore 'em. Where I live, we won where we had direct contact with real people. And we won big, locally. Folks, get into your local political scene. It's so simple. The country is ours: take it.
Wait, the "something coming" has already come? What was it? Jesus Christ! Why would he do that to us?
Clarification please!
TK - I'm not sure if that's what you're saying, but objectivity does NOT mean showing both sides spin. Specifically, showing two competeing versions of subjectivity does not equal objectivity. This isn't multiplication.
Objectivity means that you can present both sides, but that if one or both sides are lying that you state that they are lying or misstating the facts. Journalists have come to believe that fact-checking equals subjectivity, but it doesn't. The very nature of "truth" and "facts" are that they are verifiable. That's what being objective means.
And the reality is that journalists can't accurately fact check because they're too lazy to find out what the facts are. When you've got Ted Koppel making regular visits to Colin Powell's house for coffee, Glenn Ifill making dinner for Condi Rice, Bob Schiffer playing golf with George Bush, and Jim Lehrer writing yet another book, it's obvious they don't have time to do their fucking jobs.
Democracy deserves better than these clowns. The facts are verifiable only if you take the time to learn the facts.
No numbers for McEnroe or Miller because...
Because NOBODY watches them!
True. They get big fat zeroes, at least a good many nights, in the ratings.
They fired Donahue at MSNBC before the war and it had nothing to do with ratings. Don't expect miracles.
The great liberal hope will, I'm afraid, need to be a startup. Maybe Soros can buy Sinclair and trade those stations for a cable channel.
I'm convinced a liberal-leaning cable news outlet would be a ratings winner, at least on par with CNN.
It sure would be nice to be able to turn on the tube again.
No doubt, FOX News was a major player for Bush. But one thing no one mentions with these ratings is here in Tenn. Fox comes free with basic cable(i.e. just the broadcast stations and a few others stations like C-Span). To get CNN, MSNBC, etc, you have to have expanded basic which cost an extra $25 or $30 a month. I don't have the expanded basic because I don't need it to get cable internet so FOX News is the only 24 hour news channel I have. If its like that in other parts of the country, seems like that would drive down your ratings a lot.
With Fox I think the Howard Stern equation figures in. Half the people watch it because they love, and the other half watch it because they hate it. And as for Scarborough, 0.7. Ouch!I bet Ron Popeil gets higher ratings than that schmuck.
I live in Atlanta and know a bunch of people who work for CNN, most of them news writers and producers. Every one of them is miserable. CNN is trying to hire as many Fox people as it can and there's utterly no pretense inside the organization that they aren't trying to outfox the competition.
The repeated complaint is the stupidity of the reporters, who are utterly too shy or too biased to ask hard questions, especially follow-ups. A lot of what we are calling bias is really timidity.
Even CNN's website sucks now for simple breaking news
I live in Atlanta and know a bunch of people who work for CNN, most of them news writers and producers. Every one of them is miserable. CNN is trying to hire as many Fox people as it can and there's utterly no pretense inside the organization that they aren't trying to outfox the competition.
The repeated complaint is the stupidity of the reporters, who are utterly too shy or too biased to ask hard questions, especially follow-ups. A lot of what we are calling bias is really timidity.
Even CNN's website sucks now for simple breaking news
I don't watch CNN anymore....and hardly ever watch MSNBC.
After this election I will get all my news online, if there is something to watch I can watch the news online as well.
Used to be you could watch CNN and get some balance, but seeing as balance isn't what the GOP wants, CNN bent over and became nothing more than Fox lite.
Hope they fall even further.
Whenever I tune into CNN or MSNBC, there's often some long celebrity puff piece that's been repeated 5 times already, or some other super-soft time filler. Fox, on the other hand, has less of that. Fox broadcasts skewed, unreliable RNC talking points, but they do a better job of looking like professionals who are trying to inform their viewers.
Dinky
I hate to agree, but it's true. I can't stand FOX, but they actually have anchors working on weekends when Chicken Noodle News and MSGOP are serving up old re-runs of Larry King Live or some shitty program that looks like a barfed-up reject of E!, CourtTV or A&E.
NPR can't be our voice because it, too, has been cowed into the "fair and balanced" routine. Lynne Cheney staged a right-wing intervention at PBS earlier this year (See "Big Bird Flies Right" in a July 2004 issue of the New YOrker). She will be doing NPR next, rest assured.
Soros Buys CNN!!!!!!!
and yeah atrios, WTF with your earlier tease???
With Fox I think the Howard Stern equation figures in. Half the people watch it because they love, and the other half watch it because they hate it. And as for Scarborough, 0.7. Ouch!I bet Ron Popeil gets higher ratings than that schmuck.
Craig
Don't knock Ron Popeil, we got that chicken rotisserie thing and it's actually really cool.
MSNBC HARDBALL 0.8
That made me SO HAPPY! I mean that man has no instinct. He consistantly talks about how much "real" Americans love Bush's machoness. I hate the way he pushes stupid stereotypes to the limit.
MSNBC HARDBALL 0.8
That made me SO HAPPY! I mean that man has no instinct. He consistantly talks about how much "real" Americans love Bush's machoness. I hate the way he pushes stupid stereotypes to the limit.
Al Gore's Tv Station
www.indtv.tv
supposedly on air early '05. Sounds interesting, but not necessarily political
Don't knock Ron Popeil, we got that chicken rotisserie thing and it's actually really cool.
The set it and forget it one?
Democracy Now! is a good news source.
Aren't they the guys who quote Louis Farrakhan whenever doing "exposes" of 9/11?
Maggie, PBS hired Tucker Carlson at the behest of Lynne Cheney, who felt that federal funds recipient PBS was not "fair and balanced." It also doesn't hurt that Carlson's dad was president of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting from 1992 through 1997.
I really dislike that little twerp.
No numbers for McEnroe or Miller because...
Because NOBODY watches them
You can't count MCEnroe in the equation because he is good friends with NBC honcho Jeff Zucker, and that's what that is about. Nothing to do with politics.
The set it and forget it one?
That's the one. It's really awesome.
There's a whole other half of the country ready, willing and eager to watch a channel that caters to those of us on the left.
We are the future.
...Even though nobody watches McEnroe.
Nope, you need to hire personalities like Howard Stern (not necessarily him--because he is too far amoral, but someone like him), people who are not afraid to show their emotions, and bitch and complain all day long about the idiocy of the other side, and be on television, and be entertaining at the same time, while delivering their "talking points" for the Democrats.
Get about 8-10 guys like that, make sure that they are going to give "moral positions" as well, to attract the Christian vote (or at least nullify the perceived differences that fundamentalist Christians THINK there is between Republicans and Democrats), put them on one station, and let em rip.
All these dry news shows will get their butts kicked constantly by stations like that (such as Fox currently does).
Soros/Buffet need to buy/create some cable network, and get this started. I guarantee there is an audience that is angry enough now to listen, they just need to tap into that anger.
You guys are missing the point. It's not good enough for YOU to stop watching, because there are just too many people who WILL watch, and if you abandon the media it's just more reason for them to abandon you. And whether or not you watch, these are the people who influence the American dialogue. If they don't ask the tough questions, America won't talk about the tough answers.
What we need to do is organize a full-on assault of these morons. We need to attack them, and to do that we need to know what they're saying. We need to write letters, not just emails, but honest to god snail mail letters. It means more.
And if they have a number to call, call it. Bitch them out. Don't be directly insulting, but feel free to ridicule them for their bullshit coverage. The conservatives have taught us that ridicule is a very important weapon to have in the arsonal and you should learn to use it freely.
And the main thing: act smug and superior. Treat them like children. That's what they respond to. These people are just children and they respond very strongly to this stuff. It won't work immediately, but it will work. We MUST get the national discourse back into serious territory, and giving up on the media won't hope.
Sure, use the internet as your only source of news, but don't allow the conservatives to have full control of the mainstream media. It will only encourage more election outcomes like this one.
Bloggers need to hold the left and center. Let the right-wingers wear the tinfoil hats and explain why!
Why is the Big Dog hating homosexuals? I can't believe that Bill Clinton told Kerry to go redneck on gays. He has been nothing but trouble for the party.
You can't beat Fox News Channel. First off, your local network news usually tilts to the bias of the area. If youre in Chicago, even the fox news affiliate looks like a CNN clone by comparision to FNC.
FNC is the unofficial GOP party news. That's it. There's no magic formula. There sure as hell are not enough GOoPers out there for two Fox News, as they would just be splitting audiences and good luck getting these GOPers off the fox news teat.
Yeah, there is no unofficial Democratic party news station. CNN doesnt want to play that role and MSNBC like to play fox-lite and cnn-lite.
There's room in cable for this kind of station, but its gotta be a new player. Preferably not one tied to the defense industry. If such an entity exists. I mean, the barrier to entry on cable must be a fucking nightmare and the money has to come somewhere.
Still, Fox is basically giving their content away on basic cable in this red state anyways while the other news networks are charging a premium fee for theirs. Makes good sense if your not in the game to make money but to affect the outcome of elections.
CNN and MSNBC dont 'get it' - they'll never match FNC's conservative viewers even trying to hire more right-leaning reporters and pundits.
CNN/MSNBC's pandering to the right is via management/editorial decisions, like painting a cherry and calling it a grape. Fox LIVES IT, from the executive suite to the newsroom staffers. It's not that hard to tell the difference.
Olbermann's "Countdown" is television's one and only example of genuinely worthwhile infotainment, IMHO. I just hope it won't be another case of too good to last.
As for CNN, just look at where it originates. Saxbe Chambless no sooner got elected than they were having him on day in and day out to share his infinite wisdom, as though he was senior to Robert Byrd, had more clout than John Warner and knew more than Joe Biden.
So, now, does this mean Blitzer and Schneider will formally come out of the closet? Maybe they can do a special, including a reprise of the Wolfman helping do Howard Dean in by replaying — and misleading viewers with — the "scream" video sequence 6,371 times in one week.
As for Schneider, maybe they could work something in showing how he does the twinkling eyes, lilting voice, barely contained jubilation bit whenever Democrats are having an especially bad election night.
Then, they could show White House correspondent John King leafing through a stack of press releases, selecting something not the least bit unhelpful from the Bush-Cheney viewpoint.
Last but not least, they can show Candy Crowley letting her hair down about John Kerry, finally giving free vent to feelings somewhere between slow-burn loathing and red-hot, seething enmity.
Woohoo. Move over, Sean, Brit and the Beltloose Boys, here comes da Cable Neocon Network!
Just a poll: how many of you liberals make jokes with Dan Rather's sketchy professionalism as the punchline?
I did it tonight and it felt good. We should stop coddling this unprofessional boobs and make them figure this shit out on their own. "The Scoop" and "The Big Story" isn't what journalism is about. It's about reporting the truth, and these jokers need to be reminded constantly.
OT: just saw a headline on CNN.com that said "Bush to pursue issues of Muslims" and I swear for a second I thought, "Isn't Bush already killing their children?"
That's strange that you just mentioned Soros, JJF.
I wrote him an email earlier, suggesting a 'real' news show.
I wonder if I'll get a return email?
There's always hope, right?
Hell, I'd put my money into it, if I had any money!
I wish CNN would just call it quits.
I just sat through the first 5 minutes of the rebroadcast of Aaron Brown's "newscast"
The acromym of CNN should now stand for Cable Non-News.
CNN makes me want to puke.
Dr. Biobrain--
What I said above, you were making my point. I can't stand false objectivity... like the debates: "Oh, Edwards was off by 5% on the cost of the war, and Cheney told a number of bald-faced lies, neither side was better or worse on the truth." Utter nonsense.
This media machine has been built by politicians and corporate-ownership. It needs to crumble. Nobody is helped. Everybody lies wildly and nothing is ever checked until weeks later (and then ignored). I myself am a reporter, and believe me, I'm disgusted with TV news in general. It's just stupid! And when newspapers have a great chance to be really informative and in-depth, they try to be like paper TV's. Drives me nuts (and is really the pre-cursor to the outfoxing of Fox by CNN). Someone needs to start offering spinach, the stuff that's useful but boring. I have always thought -- and still do -- that people would eventually open up for such a media endeavor.
Right now I am watching the CBC rebroadcast of the evening news.
To say that they put to same every "news" broadcast available to Americans, is an understatement.
American News, as we all know, suck ass so bad, they will forever smell like shit.
http://img103.exs.cx/img103/4526...6/
exit_poll.gif
"This chart makes the trend obvious. In states with paper ballots and audit trails, the exit polls accurately predicted the vote results. In states using electronic machines, the vote results were distorted in favor of Bush."
source - http://www.whatreallyhappened.com
Though NBC News called Florida for Bush late Tuesday night, some lawsuits are likely to move ahead. A suit by the ACLU asked for absentee votes to be handled the same as overseas ballots, which can be counted until Nov. 12. A hearing was scheduled for Wednesday morning. With 1.6 million absentee ballots expected in the state, tens of thousands of votes could still be affected.
If you think this is over think again.
We also need to rant on the fact that 24/7 news stations are the stupidest idea in a long long time. It kind of made sense before the internet took off, but it's completely senseless now. Especially as they feel the need to keep rehashing each story and milking it for every bit of speculation that you can get. Simply disgusting.
If CNN and the others were honest, they'd simply tell you "Nothing new again, just rehashing the old stuff" instead of even pretending it's otherwise. I can't stand that. And pundit spin shows like O'Reilly, Hardball, and Crossfire have NO business on a real news network. Maybe somebody can come up with a Pundit Spin Network or something which is soley about commentary. But objective news needs to be kept separate.
But the truth is that real news can't support a 24-hour news network. Not during a war. Not during terrorism. They will continually be stuck pimping speculation and finding new spin to the same story. And Rove will continue to find ways to manipulate that.
The internet is all we need for our news coverage and it is far far superior in every conceivable way.
I am a TW employee and I have no idea what they are trying to do with CNN. Whatever it is it's bad.
I don't even watch it because frankly Aaron Brown is the only watchable thing and he's on at the wrong time for me. When I catch him I'm like, Thank God, when he does a good story like the arms inspection one. That killed, it was so good. But the Whip is tiresome, driviling over the morning papers and the Red Sox, snore. The rundown, who cares.
Larry King is fucking un-watchable and he's all over every god damm CNN show. Get rid of the shmuck and get one interesting person there.
MSNBC is at least interesting even though it elevates pundits and hacks to "analysts" and "correspondants". Ron Reagan is fun to watch, even the deadly Scarborogh will admit an occaisonal mistake or wrong position in his party. Not on his own show, but on the panels on Matthews.
yes, what we liberals need is a nice safe media channel which filters out any information or opinion which challenges our carefully cultivated shibboleths. Because after all, we are the reality-based community.
Except for Old Hat. He is a MBF.
Thesis:
The successful TV news of the future will be completely comprehensible with the sound off.
I viewed Tuesday night with CNN on TV, sound off, NPR on radio. It worked very well, and most of the time, it was obvious what Larry, Jeff, Carlos, and Wolf were saying in their cute little high-tech homeroom ...
more on my blog [flog]
j
Gore needs to make his cable channel from the left as hard-hitting and a..aholic as Fox News. Right now the concept is Discovery Channel-lite, which is why they can't get coverage or investment. Cable TV isn't about policy, it's about theater and propaganda.
Don't knock Ron Popeil, we got that chicken rotisserie thing and it's actually really cool.
Ron is my uncle, seriously. Glad you mentioned his name, he will get a kick out of that.
OT,
Gotta admit, someone at Kos calling for a "blue flu" day on inauguration day in January by all Kerry voters has a pretty good idea.
Add it to the "red state boycott" and "no shopping on the day after Thanksgiving" list of things to consider.
yes, what we liberals need is a nice safe media channel which filters out any information or opinion which challenges our carefully cultivated shibboleths. Because after all, we are the reality-based community.
Oh yeah, Fox News has lots of reality-based opinions that are legitimate options. Give me a fucking break. Cable news is who can scream the fucking loudest, or be the biggest dick (Tucker) while having the smallest.
I don't think we need a left wing FoxNews. As a member of the 'reality based community', I don't like spin and distortions in either direction. If anyone caught the Jon Stewart interview on C-span, I'm with him - he thinks that what we need is a news network that doesn't tolerate any BS and that it could make serious money. Moderators that are actually in command of the facts and are willing to call people of any party on them. Reporters that aren't afraid of being called biased if they say the the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth are a bunch of liars.
I am sick of politicans getting away with lies, talking heads regurgitating misleading talking points, pundits making mountains out of molehills and making predictions based on conjecture just to fill air time.
If a network has to be entertaining by outraged by something, why not be outraged at lying? It might start out feeling left wing because the Republicans are lying more right now, but it wouldn't be that way by institution.
Imagine a Crossfire like show where the first segment of each show is an independant observer drawing attention to any mistakes or distortions made during the prior show. That, unlike Crossfire, might be worth watching. And you would turn in next week to see the debunking.
The Truth network. Somebody should start it. I think it could be profitable.
Oh, and if you fuckers were really smart, you'd just get all your news from me. You'd be like "Hey, Doctor Biobrain, what's the important news for the day?" or "Hey, Doc, what's the word on that explosives cache? Did Bush really eff up on that one or is he in the clean?" And then you'd get the straight truth and know what the fuck's up. And if someone questioned your opinion, you could just say "Well, that's what Biobrain said," and they'd be all like "Oh, did he. Well I stand corrected". And I'd be your sole source of news, spin, and reality. That's if you were really smart, anyway.
Ah, I see "hat" the troll (not to be confused with Old Hat the good guy) is back. Just can't stay away, can you, Herr Goebbels?
I'm from Minnesota, with good news to report.
Not only did we vote for Kerry (highest voter turnout in the nation, again), but the single-issue types -- you know, the ones who allegedly "won it" for Bush by the narrowest of margins? -- apparently stopped marking their ballots once they checked it off for Bush and the Congressional types, which allowed Democrats at the state and local levels to make big, big gains. (Similar state-level gains have been reported in Colorado and Montana, believe it or not.)
The Minnesota House, which Republicans have controlled 80-53 for four years (the biggest margin in decades), is now just barely in GOP controll, 68-66 -- and if the Mora recount in two weeks goes our way, that becomes a 67-67 deadlock. Several big Republican names, including six committee chairs, went down in flames. Furthermore, a lot of the remaining GOPers are known for working with Democrats on important issues.
So take heart: There are silver linings.
Popeil's Pocket Fisherman.
First Popeil product I remember seeing ads for...
Weird ol' Weird Al did a funny Popeil song.
Why is the Big Dog hating homosexuals? I can't believe that Bill Clinton told Kerry to go redneck on gays. He has been nothing but trouble for the party.
Peña | Email | Homepage | 11.05.04 - 1:08 am | #
While it is repugnant that Clinton would recommend doing such a thing, it does show that Clinton knows how to win. There's lots of talk now about how we need to get down and dirty to beat the Repubs at their own game...If we don't like Clinton's way then we have to figure out another way. Perhaps play on government's intrusion into our lives or something.
And we seriously do need to start a unified boycott system against CNN or MSNBC.
Not necessarily a boycott of CNN or MSNBC, but rather an aggrevation campaign of slamming them. In letters, emails, and phone calls, but also in your day-to-day discussions.
If Bush does something wrong, slam the damn media for not covering it. Don't slam Bush, it'll go nowhere. Blame the media for not covering it correctly and telling the truth.
Oh, and don't forget the lameass NY Times. I hate their shit. They might have a few good stories now and again, but they helped lead us into this damn war. That can't be forgotten.
And don't forget how hard the "liberal" media slammed Fahrenheit 9/11, giving moderate Americans the impression that it was distorted propaganda rather than documented facts. Hell, even nationwide columnists like Ellen Goodman and Richard Cohen AGREED
Why don't you just turn off the TV?
THEY CALL ME PASTABAGEL
I also really don't want a Left version of Faux News. Although I would watch it, just like I listen to AAR.
However, what I really want it a channel that will have a politician on (Left or Right) and tell them "BullShit" (literally) when they start spewing it.
The biggest problem with American News (besides being owned by Bush cocksuckers), is that the news readers are pansies.
Or, to quote Mrs. Slocumb from Are You Being Served: Weak as Water, Weak as Water!
What you did made a difference, and building on itself. Building on itself, we go on to make a difference another day. I promise you that time will come, the time will come, the election will come when your work and your ballots will change the world, and it‘s worth fighting for.
John Kerry words in speech yesterday.
Unfortunately, I have just about all the Popeil products, the ones that sold well and the ones that didn't.
Like a blow up car door protector
that is absolutely useless.
Probably absolutely, completely nothing. Don't believe a word of it, but: Black Box Voting has taken the position that fraud took place in the 2004 election through electronic voting machines. We base this on hard evidence, documents obtained in public records requests, inside information, and other data indicative of manipulation of electronic voting systems. What we do not know is the specific scope of the fraud. We are working now to compile the proof, based not on soft evidence -- red flags, exit polls -- but core documents obtained by Black Box Voting in the most massive Freedom of Information action in history.
At least someone will attempt to find the truth, even though I'm 100% sure K/E really lost...
Here is my 12 STEP PROGRAM FOR RECOVERING DEMOCRATS.
http://drdem.blogspot.com/
Please check it out and pass it around the team.
Not necessarily a boycott of CNN or MSNBC, but rather an aggrevation campaign of slamming them. In letters, emails, and phone calls, but also in your day-to-day discussions.
If Bush does something wrong, slam the damn media for not covering it. Don't slam Bush, it'll go nowhere. Blame the media for not covering it correctly and telling the truth.
Oh, and don't forget the lameass NY Times. I hate their shit. They might have a few good stories now and again, but they helped lead us into this damn war. That can't be forgotten. Maureen Dowd almost single-handedly invented several of the anti-Gore myths, and was the first to publish Kerry's invented "NASCAR" phrase which she pummelled him with on several occassions. And the NY Times is responsible for breaking the Whitewater story. Who can forget that? It was their big scoop, and they've never apologized!!!
And don't forget how hard the "liberal" media slammed Fahrenheit 9/11, giving moderate Americans the impression that it was distorted propaganda rather than documented facts. Hell, even nationwide columnists like Ellen Goodman and Richard Cohen AGREED with what the film said...before slamming it for being Bush-Bashing propaganda. That is not acceptable.
It's not enough to bash CNN without realizing how the print media is responsible for this election mess too.
Also, relatedly, I screw up closing tags a lot.
Look: The 24/7 news cycle is here to stay, as is news-as-infortainment. Opting out isn't an option. As someone said earlier in the thread, it will go on without you.
The only option is to play the media game. No one's mentioned the sterling success of The Daily Show as either a model or an inspiration. These guys are unapologetically on our side, but use their wits and humor to do it. They've grown a base and they cater to it, just like Fox News does. And they can still get neocons on for the high quality sparring (Bill Kristol was on tonight, damn his hoary soul).
There's a ton of money to be made off of us. And I for one am willing to pay if it gets our ideas out and informs the public about them. Straight news is dead dead dead; like anything else in this political era, the news channels are there only to be exploited for partisan gain. It's about time we start exploiting.
Anon
If you are still around, I am getting to truly appreciate the state of Minnesota. Explain to me why the are so different from the red states. Minnesota seems to have a personality of its own.
Something that has made me feel great about enjoying what teevee I do watch:
Build your own PVR (tivo-ish) device, and never see another commercial again.
And by all means, just turn off the "news" networks. If there was any doubt remaining about how useless and stupid they are, Tuesday purged it. Their breathless haste to call the election before the votes are even counted, and before the fraud is even partially documented, means only one thing: it's the end of television news as we know it, and I feel fine.
This is from Drudge?When did we start listening to him?Olberman has to have higer ratings than that
I'm all for a boycott, the wife and I made a vow that we were not going to watch anymore news 24/7 after the election. So we're already not viewing any cable news programs. But during the Sinclair thing, several people suggested boycotting cable news the same way.
I think that's an excellent idea and I know that my family is on board. Hit them where it hurts, their bottom line. Hit the advertisers. But if we're going to go after someone like this, why not FOX since they are the ones that REALLY deserve it. The other stations are all just trying to emulate them.
Why stop with FOX though when we could target all the Murdoch empire, papers as well.
Food for thought, count me in as long as it's organized similarly to the Sinclair thing. It won't do any good unless it's organized and gets press.
Who knows, we may even be able to get the FCC to bring back the fairness doctrine and re-regulate if we push it far enough.
However, what I really want it a channel that will have a politician on (Left or Right) and tell them "BullShit" (literally) when they start spewing it.
How about a premium news channel broadcasting zero bullshit for programming, like HBO? Think one BBC quality news hour every night, with shows like The Daily Show and Real Time late night and some other stuff during the day. Hell, Atrios could have a show. How about someone like James Wolcott hosting a show? Wouldn't you like to see his wit on TV?
No advertising, so it wouldn't be beholden to its paymasters. No censors, either. Cursing and raw talk encouraged in the late night.
Premium channels work better with smaller viewerships, too.
Cheaper to get on the air than a standard cable channel, too.
If we can get George Soros to start a Liberal media station "fox left"
We could all invest in the stock. I
know it will be money well spent.
More on the premium channel idea: Imagine Krugman or Dean hosting a show.
I'd just like to point out that The Daily Show is more of an attack on the media, rather than politicians. And while they do attack politicians and report some news, most of the attack is intended towards the media and how they cover the news.
That's why they're a "fake news show". It's not necessarily that they report fake news. It's that they're mocking news shows by pretending to be one. And the reason they cover the news better than the "real" stations is because that's all part of the mockery, and is the biggest joke of all.
Well, that, plus the facts that they've all got brains and the balls to use them.
Look: The 24/7 news cycle is here to stay, as is news-as-infortainment. Opting out isn't an option. As someone said earlier in the thread, it will go on without you.
The only option is to play the media game. No one's mentioned the sterling success of The Daily Show as either a model or an inspiration. These guys are unapologetically on our side, but use their wits and humor to do it. They've grown a base and they cater to it, just like Fox News does. And they can still get neocons on for the high quality sparring (Bill Kristol was on tonight, damn his hoary soul).
There's a ton of money to be made off of us. And I for one am willing to pay if it gets our ideas out and informs the public about them. Straight news is dead dead dead; like anything else in this political era, the news channels are there only to be exploited for partisan gain. It's about time we start exploiting.
I stopped watching CNN-But tune in to MSNBC countdown. If we all stopped watching CNN and just tuned in for Keith, we could up his ratings.
"When I catch him I'm like, Thank God, when he does a good story like the arms inspection one. That killed, it was so good."
And a couple of nights earlier he (Aaron Brown) featured an interview with a soldier in Iraq who said this:
SGT. MAJ. JOHN CALPENA, 1ST INFANTRY DIVISION: People say the entire country is in disarray and we relate that to a neighborhood in New York City, say the Bronx, in a gang war or something horrible is happening and buildings were burning down. Nobody would say the entire United States is in chaos. They would say the Bronx is in chaos and it's really the same thing here."
Brown let that air on his program, and didn't correct it or air a realistic POV to counter. One night he's a liberal, next night a conservative. Hello? It's about trying to play it both ways.
I suppose I shouldn't insult people as I'm fairly new here, but what the hell. Insults are a spice of life.
What in the hell were you people doing watching CNN/MSNBC for in the first place? I honestly didn't think any real people watched that crap. It was utterly moronic, and there is so much more information on the internet. Was it that you had a slow dial-up or something? I don't get it. I sometimes will flip it on CNN or Fox when I want to have my intelligence insulted, or see what the talking heads are spinning this time, but that's all they were good for. As far as news sources go, they're the pits. And even if they TRIED to report better news, they're inferior the internet. And they aren't even trying.
The truth is that all traditional news sources are inferior to the internet. And I don't just mean bloggers. I mean EVERYTHING. No passive watching, waiting for a story. I do a search, read some news, click a link, do more research. Everything. Watching CNN is like riding a train; you can only see what they want you to see and you have no control over anything. That sucks. I need to find out the details and I need them now. And if everyone had that approach, Bush would have been stomped by Gore in 2000 and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
I'm looking forward to the first gaff by Bush. That first ray of sunshine when the dumb squinting junkie says "misunderestimate" or some cool stuff like that.
At the moment, somehow he's kinda squatting on top of my brain like some sort of evil chimpie all-conquering nazi overlord. Like in the WWII propaganda posters.
But, I know that as soon as he says one of his dumb, embarassing things and then shrugs'n'smirks about it, like someone's gonna throw him a banana, then all will be well.
Speak up, Georgie, speak up! The world needs laughter, you crazy little gimp!
.
e-Voting Counties
Gore 2000: 46.04% 1,021,020 votes
Kerry 2004: 46.44% 1,287,572 votes
Bush 2000: 53.96% 1,196,736 votes
Bush 2004: 59.25% 1,484,771 votes
While Kerry only added 0.4% from Gore’s 2000 total, Bush added a whooping 5.29%! How about the punchcard and optical voting counties?
Punchcard/Optical Counties
Gore 2000: 50.21% 1,081,635 votes
Kerry 2004: 51.35% 1,352,521 votes
Bush 2000: 49.77% 1,072,431 votes
Bush 2004: 48.65% 1,281,419 votes
So in the other counties Bush lost ground at a -1.12% clip while Kerry added 1.14% from Gore’s 2000 total.
Add those together and Bush gained 6.41% in electronic voting counties while Kerry lost 0.74%. That added 198,222 votes to Bush’s total. He won the state by 136,483 votes. This was the election folks.
Why did Bush have a 7.15% advantage in ONLY the electronic voting counties? Well, that’s the six million dollar question isn’t it. This stinks something seriously rotten.
Florida is next….
This is become more and more obvious that we won this thing. Florida had the same # problems on the same machines. I hope to hell some very
intelligent experts are looking into this.
http://ustogether.org/
Florida_El...da_Election.htm
http://www.primordium.org/index....index.php?
p=173
Figures are from Ohio and the full story and website are listed above.
Average DROP for democrats in counties using op-scan systems, but average INCREASE using touchscreen systems
http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm
Here is the antidote to the media -- reject everything they say. All this "talk faith" baloney. Biggest mistake we could make. You can't out ape the monkey. They ran to right and they're stuck. We are the mainstream. We just have to get the mainstream to give a shit.
Here is a recovery plan for the dems:
http://www.drdem.blogspot.com/
Shameless plug, but i just want more of us to learn the right lessons from this election.
watch your groceries...
the ceo, john mackey[sic] of whole foods was/is a big bushit.
as much as you might like that grocery chain, i recommend that you punish it.
you know, you folks made it. and you can take it away.
kill it.
boycott it.
i marveled at how the progressives bought from this bunch of gangsters when the employees were striking.
kill it.
you can find the same stuff elsewhere.
cheaper. better. non-fascist.
Buy euros and sterling while you still can.
While I don't think that a straight "talk faith" will do it for us, I think there is something valid to it. The problem is that we're right about everything. And our correctness is so self-evident that we don't bother explaining ourselves properly. We don't think we need to. If anyone opposes our agenda, we believe that our motives are so self-evident that the opponent must be an evil dummy who is blind to the truth. And while there are many conservatives who are evil dummies, you just can't tell which ones they are. And they often aren't the ones who you think.
The truth is that liberals are VERY moral people. We don't support helping the poor because we're buying their votes (something conservatives insist). We support it because it's the moral thing to do. We don't defend the environment because we're close-minded zealots who hate big business (or not most of us, anyway). We defend it because it's the moral thing to do.
In fact, just about EVERYTHING we support is done so for moral reasons. When you get down to it, I firmly believe that the typical lib is MORE moral than the typical conservative. Or at least that our moral concerns lie in different areas.
So while I don't think we need to be citing Jesus as the greatest person in history, it would help if we remembered to explain our position in moral terms, rather than absolute terms. It's craxy that we're getting beat up on by right-wing talkers for being immoral and "if it feels good, do it".
Liberals support causes BECAUSE we're moral and BECAUSE we don't think society should "do it because it feels good". And we need to remind America of that constantly.
I earned capital in the campaign, political capital, and now I intend to spend it. It is my style.
President Bush, in LA Times
... :'(
"MSNBC's management thinks they need to stay right to gain viewers who think CNN is to [sic] liberal."
You honestly consider MSNBC to be on the right?
Chris Matthews - Liberal Democrat
Keith Olbermann - Liberal
Brian Williams - Democrat
Don Imus - Kerry Supporter
Ashley Banfield - Anti-American
Andrea Mitchell - Liberal
Phil Donahue - Leftist
Ron Reagan - Liberal
Peter Arnett - Anti-American
This is just a small sampling of the people who have been employed by MSNBC over the last few years.
God bless the Daily Show! I don't think I could make it without it.
Chris Matthews - Liberal Democrat (Ha!)
Keith Olbermann - Liberal (Ok)
Brian Williams - Democrat (Ok)
Don Imus - Kerry Supporter (Kausian)
Ashley Banfield - Anti-American (Haha!)
Andrea Mitchell - Liberal (HAHAHA!
Phil Donahue - Leftist (Ok)
Ron Reagan - Liberal (Ok)
Peter Arnett - Anti-American (Ha!)
Doc Biobrain:
i hear you. we shouldn't be insensitive to religion, but we can't think we are going to peel off evangelicals from the GOP block.
we can speak in moral terms however. right and wrong. instead of implying our policies are "intellectaully right" we can literally state that they are "morally right.'
Wes Clark had the message without the charisma. He always talked about how the dems don't have to talk about our faith because we live it in our ideals.
Reggie - Just because those people are left of Fox News doesn't make them on the left. Your list just goes to show how freaky right you are. It reminded me about how after the third debate, Jim Pinkerton of Fox suggested that ABC News showed their "liberal bias" for having George Will on the show. It's obvious how loony you guys are when you think Will is a liberal.
The truth is there are NO liberals on the three networks. Just a bunch of pompous hacks who wouldn't know a real American if he/she bit them on the ass.
i think, doc, more important than all the values and morals though is being strong. maybe we have a good heart and our policies come from the right place, but we have to talk strong about it. Unapologetically, aggressively, and proactively.
And getting real, we have to simultaneously destroy the opposition with heartless cold-blooded tactics.
repost
Fixed - The Stealing of Another Election (Democratic Underground.com) --by EarlG --Kerry winning Exit Polls --"FRAUD LOOKS PROBABLE --SoCalDem has done a statistical analysis... ...on several swing states, and EVERY STATE that has EVoting but no paper trails has an unexplained advantage for Bush of around +5% when comparing exit polls to actual results. In EVERY STATE that has paper audit trails on their EVoting, the exit poll results match the actual results reported within the margin of error. So, we have MATCHING RESULTS for exit polls vs. voting with audits vs. A 5% unexplained advantage for Bush without audits."
the left is gone from the media. That was always overhyped, to great success by the right. Now they have what they want. Partisans and mindless press release regurgitators.
And may I day, I continue to be nauseated by Powell's continued shilling for the GOP:
Secretary of State Colin Powell told assembled Muslim guests Thursday that in its second term, the Bush administration will "strike a balance" between security and openness.
Powell made his remarks at a State Department dinner celebrating the end of the daily Ramadan fast.
Powell acknowledged that heightened security since the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks and the war on terrorism have "caused inconvenience" to many Muslims.
Reggie you forgot Alan Keyes and Joe Scarborough.
Windsor Mill, MD
Baltimore Co.
Diebold Accuvote TS
I entered my vote for John Kerry and after I finished entering all my votes, it took me to a review page. I then saw the "presidential vote" saying George Bush. I didn't mention it at the polling office because i thought it was my error. After I talked to my friends and several of them experienced the same thing.
I just wonder how many people DIDN'T check their votes. In a tight election, you don't need much to sway an election especially when you are using an "auditless" machine. Even a bank still uses some form of paper audit trail! And isn't America more important than some bank? We have been using exit polls for decades and all of a sudden we don't trust them?! Why is it that the media says they don't trust the exit polls? The "exit polls" are the American people aren't they? Why doesn't the media doubt the election results instead of doubting the American people
Okay I want to know how many of these machines are out there, where are they located. When you vote Kerry, you get Bush. This story is be told in a lot of states with this machine. I don't even think Bush got the popular vote, let alone the electoral. They were either rigged or pieces of crap. Why didn't I here any stories that when I voted for Bush it came up Kerry?
What happened to Keyes' show, anyway? Did he get booted for saying something ridiculous, a la Savage, or just for low ratings?
This is insanely off topic and out of date, but what was the deal with that Savage MSNBC thing? They fired him because he made some obnoxious homophobic comment. WHAT THE FUCK DID THEY THINK THEY WERE GETTING? Why on earth would you give Michael Savage a show for any other reason BUT so he can get on TV and call people sodomites?
Diebold Stock Watch
Stock price before it got caught in California (11/03)
$57.43
Price Today (10/22/04)
$45.45
Change to date: DOWN 20.8%
Alot of people know something, this will come out and make the media.
Dr. Dem - I really don't necessarily agree with your aggressive or cold-blooded talk. I honestly believe that it's not necessary. If the American people had a better understanding of what they were voting for, we'd win everytime.
But the main way that the conservatives beat us is on message delivery. They are very good at getting a solid message to their people, while they consistently muddy our debate. One of their main tools is kicking up so much debate and huff and conflicting stories that a News Fog forms over everything, and nobody knows which way to go. They can talk straight to their base via radio talkshows, while we're busy trying to figure out what the story is.
The looted explosives is a perfect example. That was a horrible story for Bush, but within 24 hours there were so many conflicting stories and debunkings that even smart news hounds had trouble figuring out where everything stood. We were right, but it's became a non-issue because the right was effective at causing confusion.
And my main solution for that is to attack the media so they'll get up off their lazy asses and earn the money they get. If we can't do that, we won't have done anything.
Besides, the main problem with your idea is that it's just against character. Aggressive, cold-blooded people will tend to be conservatives, and they will always have that natural advantage over us. And our natural advantage is that we're nicer people and we've got the better platform. I'm not saying that all/most conservatives are mean, just the people in charge. And if we could think like them, we'd be them.
And the only thing holding us back is the inability to convey that message. But the first step is getting the media to cut through the bullshit and stop letting conservatives walk all over the truth.
"" So, we have MATCHING RESULTS for exit polls vs. voting with audits vs. A 5% unexplained advantage for Bush without audits.""
If this is true this is HUGE!!!!
On now on a totally unrelated subject... why can't I actually find any sites that have any "final" final vote counts.... I'm damn curious to see ....
Urgent warning to voters using touch screen / DRE voting machines
Voters urged to double-check the summary screen before casting ballot
by Bob Kibrick
November 1st, 2004
Early voting began the week of October 18 in many states. Our Election Incident Reporting System (EIRS) has already received numerous complaints from across the country of touch screen/DRE voting machines failing to properly register voters' selections. Over 20% of the electronic voting machine incidents reported so far describe voters having to make repeated attempts to get the voting machines to correctly register their choices. Many of these problems reported during early voting will still be present on election day, so be sure to watch out for them at your polling place.
Because of these problems, it is absolutely vital that voters double-check the selections listed on the final "summary", "proof", or "review" screen prior to casting their votes. If the selections listed on that screen are not what the voter intended, then the voter must page back through ballot and make any needed corrections prior to casting their ballot.
Many of these reports came from voters using ES&S iVotronic touch screen voting machines in Florida and Texas. These voters reported that the iVotronic touch screens registered selections for candidates that the voters had not intended to select. If voters rest their hands or thumbs on or near the edge of the touch screen, then the voting machine can register a selection where none was intended.
This design flaw was identified weeks ago by Professor Doug Jones of the Univerity of Iowa Computer Science Department and noted in section 11 of his pre-election testing report submitted to elections officials in Florida's Miami Dade County. Dr. Jones is a member of the Iowa Board of Examiners for Voting Machines and Electronic Voting Systems and he also serves on the Board of Advisors for the Verified Voting Foundation
So was the Kerry campaign self destructing as reported by Newsweek? Any insiders on the blogs...
CNN.com has a map that shows the state and county totals. excluding absentee and provisional ballots.
election fraud florida-http://ustogether.org/
Florida_Election.htm
Election fraud-Ohio-Democratundergound.com
Expect to be angry as hell!
i just e-mailed whole foods to inform them of my impending boycott.
What's wrong with Whole Foods?
Ha ha ha ha ha...
Only a fool picks a copy when they can get the real thing for nothing.
I think only MSNBC has a chance of changing, 'cause they do so bad they might make a major overhaul out of shear desparation.
ceo of whole foods supports bush. pass it on.
In President George W. Bush's home state of Texas, some Travis County and Austin County voters complained of touch-screen voting systems that marked a vote for Bush even though they voted Democratic across the board. In Houston, only five voting machines out of approximately 20 were operating, causing long lines and forcing some voters to leave polling places without voting.
These machines have had problems in every state that has them.
Hey, is there a law about how many voting machines/booths/etc. there should be per person in the precinct? If not, there needs to be. It seems obvious that urban areas need far more voting facilities than rural ones, and that gives rural voters a natural advantage.
Sure, some people will be willing to stand for hours, but less die-hard voters might not even go to the polls because they think they're be a line. I myself voted in Texas and there was no line at all. My precinct voted for Bush.
But we need to push for a voter rights bill that mandates a certain number of machines per registered voter in the precinct. And with a distance requirement so that people without cars can easily get to the polls. And if there are such laws, we need to add teeth to them. Fair voting demands that it be just as easy for all voters to vote.
I'm listening to the BBC. They just interviewed a Heritage Foundation guy who was asked questions about how divided the country is etc.etc. He said that Bush will not bend on any social issues so that the opponents will just have to be unhappy.
So there. Coathangers will come in handy in lots of the Red states...
Echidne - What social issues did they push last time that actually amounted to anything? I can't think of any. I honestly don't think that Bush wants to push on ANY issues, especially not abortion. That's the only way they can get people to vote against their own interests. Were they to "solve" the conservative social issues, too many conservatives would either stop voting or vote Democrat. And Democrats would be livid and have even stronger GOTV efforts. We would massacre them in the polls for years to come. You may think that these people are stupid, but it's the same basic issues every time that are driving them to the polls. They can't just keep making new ones up.
All Bush will do is talk tough on social issues, pretend to push for a few, bring up a few wedge issues like another partial-birth abortion ban, and appoint/hire as many far right loonies as they can.
And that's how they're screwing us. It's not the bills they'll pass, it's the folks they hire.
diebold has fucked us good...lying
scum delievered for aWoljr and screw
the rest of us...this is America damn it...we need a list of aWoljr's cash cows and we boycott...and in California we need to RECALL ARNOLD
for his support of aWoljr...
I've had a look at the Florida patterns of how much the actual rates of voting varied by what would be predicted by party affiliation, and the stuff indeed looks very suspicious. I haven't done any statistical testing on it yet, and I would dearly love to add information on the characteristics of the counties. The difference between the expected and actual rates is big in small counties which makes sense as even small differences make big percentage changes when the base numbers are low.
But once you look at the Op-Scan machines, even big counties have very large swings and they always go towards more Republican votes than expected.
So the real question is whether there is any other explanation than fraud that could account for the differences between E-Touchscreen machines and the Op-Scan machines.
NO DRAFT-JUST STALKING
I inadvertantly upset a bus full of passengers today by outing an incognito recruiter.
I reminded the young man who was being convinced to join up, that he might get shot at. The recruiter said, "not initially" and told the scruffy looking kid with the dried mud on his backpack that he might end up in a neat place like Germany.
I said he might be ordered to kill innocents.
Another passenger ordered me "to stop being so smug", as he got off the bus and it was Lucky for him that that wasn't my stop. I'll stop being smug when he gets educated. Oh that's right, he won't, he lives in America 2004.
This recruiter guy claimed to be a veteran, and not a recruiter, and he said Bush was doing a good thing spreading democracy around the world, like in Germany.
I feel like a volcano about to erupt.
Gonzo Activist Magnolia
Click to see the real RED VS BLUE map:
KERRY WINS!!
One more thing- 24/7 look like an activist, dress like an activist.
I know-everyone dress in blue.
Damn.
Most blues aren't my color.
Why, again, do we care about the cable nets? I mean, we're talking about a pretty insignificant viewership, aren't we? 3 or 4 million people may be impressive, but it hardly makes a huge difference. Let's spend our time ont the real media.
Please, Please, Please!
Don't despair.
It ain't over till the Chad lady sings!
Check out my blog for details...or go straight to Daily Kos to read the recommended diaries about Ohio.
WE have to do the groundwork for the DNC. WE have to write and blog about the widespread fraud, undercounted votes, chads, electronic voting, etc.
Kerry couldn't stay in the race...because, at that point, he had no evidence.
It's up to US to provide it.
It's up to US to Mosh like Eminem.
It's up to US to force recounts and demand answers!
Please, Please, Please EVERYONE pick up your heads and get back to work. We have an election to re-win.
Why Are We Back In Iraq?
Brad at BradBlog.com reports on a very troubling analysis done of votes in Florida that were tallied by machines produced by Diebold (the company run by the big Republican) and ES&S (a company reportedly founded by the CEO of Diebold).
It's a bit complicated, but in a nutshell, you can look at registered voters for each party in a precinct and guesstimate how many votes each party might get in that precinct. Then you compare that guesstimate with how many people actually voted for each party in that precinct.
I know, complicated. But in the end what they found was a shocking number of the Diebold and ES&S precincts logged WAY MORE Republican votes than expected and WAY FEWER Dem votes than expected. Whereas the other precincts, not nearly such a divergence.
That's creepy. Especially when you consider that Diebold and ES&S supposedly tallied 80% of the nation's vote. You see where this is going.
Where's George Soros?
Time for some philanthropist to make his ass useful.
I removed the cablenewsers from my TiVo lineup today. I still pay for the fuckers, but I'm damned if I'm going to give them any ratings points, apart from Olbermann. Oh, and CNN International, which I painfully retain on the station list just because it reminds me how shit the domestic CNN is.
Really, ask your cable provider to replace CNN with CNNi. Just get them to file the fucking complaint. Because CNN pays some really good journalists who provide really good coverage to the rest of the fucking world -- along with The Daily Show -- and Americans never see it unless there's a breaking story at 4am during repeats of Paula Fuckwit Now.
Also: Diebold delivered it to Bush, just as the CEO promised, and the press won't talk about it. Damn, Kerry won't talk about it. Someone pay for Greg Palast to talk to camera during an ad break, wouldya?
Also pt II: move your money into Euro accounts ASAP. If you're in a position to twist a boss or client's arm, ask to be paid in Euros. The dollar is tanking right now. My last paycheck (or rather, pay cheque) from the UK increased in dollar-value a decent amount this past week. My expat friends in the US are moving their money into offshore Euro accounts right now. They know what's coming for the dollar.
However, what I really want it a channel that will have a politician on (Left or Right) and tell them "BullShit" (literally) when they start spewing it.
Oh, I miss the BBC.
Where's George Soros?
Time for some philanthropist to make his ass useful.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.05.04 - 3:40 am | #
Man, ain't that the truth. If Soros believes his own shit that he put forth before this election, he really should double-up right now.
People who think making a 500-mile left turn is a "sport" are in charge of our entire government.
Daily Kos has put Hunter's diary on the top of its site.
Please, ATRIOS...we need you to do the same...
This election isn't over. It's up to US to get it going.
Associated Press
COLUMBUS, Ohio - A computer error with a voting machine cartridge gave President Bush 3,893 extra votes in a Gahanna precinct.
Franklin County's unofficial results gave Bush 4,258 votes to Democratic challenger John Kerry's 260 votes in Precinct 1B. Records show only 638 voters cast ballots in that precinct.
Matthew Damschroder, director of the Franklin County Board of Elections, said Bush received 365 votes there. The other 13 voters who cast ballots either voted for other candidates or did not vote for president.
Damschroder said he received some calls Thursday from people who saw the error when reading the list of poll results on the election board's Web site.
more…
http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjo.../state/
101039...
Subtracted, article has disappeared!
S.W. Anderson....Kiss My Fuckin Ass!!!!
We need to hit these bozos on a local level. Start with your local network channels. Make them reach out to the great unwashed.
Most of the Fox disciples watch their local news-cast first. Make noise on the front line and it will become a bigger story when it rises to the next level.
We have the power to control them not the other way around. They're so dumb and spoon-fed. Why shouldn't we be the ones feeding them?
anonymous in nc
You can listen to BBC radio via BBCi, but I have to disappoint you, post Hutton BBC is a Blair spin machine.
My first post here. I've been lurking her and on Kos for months. I can't sit on the sidelines any longer. Is there anyone here on the island of Oahu interested in having a house meeting to start a movement to save America?
I have never been politically active and at this point I'm not interested in Party Politics. I'd love to get a group of humans together, be they pissed off Pat Buchanan Conservatives or rabid Chomskyites.
I have to do something or my head is going to explode like in an old Scanners movie.
Please e-mail me if there is interest or give me a reasonable option.
If you think boycotting red state products is a good idea, please read my diary on Kos's site and give me some feedback on the questions I pose there. Any help putting this together would be appreciated.
Thank you.
BIFOMR
I've put parental controls on both stations. Don't want to stop cable, but don't want to have those two stations in my house.
We don't need them. We got Democracy Now!
http://www.democracynow.org/
As usual, Bush turned reality upside down. A quintessential American value is tolerance for ideas other than one's own. Tuesday's election was a dismaying sprint toward intolerance, sparked by a smiling president who is a master at appealing to the baser aspects of our natures.
above from Bob Herbert
Anyone on Oahu willing to talk about starting something new, or with a good idea how I can funnel this dispair/energy/anger into something positive? I have a vision of a room full of people with differering viewpoints willing to talk about how to make things better. I could rail on and on about the idiocy of the religious right but we need dialog to come to a rational way forward. Sounds insane I know. But if we don't attempt to understand each other now we have no future as a nation. Ok.. yeah.. I'm a bit drunk. I'm trying.
The more I think about it, the more I believe that the machines did us in. Black Box voting was on this for along time, and should have gotten more support. Now she needs $50,000 to access information from the states to really find out what was going on.
Oahu- is that in Nebraska?....hahahahahya
""Oahu- is that in Nebraska?....hahahahahya""
No ,I'm thinking Omahahahahahya
Oh, where'd you go, Ohio?
try this on for size:
ohvotesuppression.blogspot.com
also, anyone interested in the long and twisted saga of my students who spent, no lie, ALL DAY, trying to vote, they are handling their own journalism--bless their steadfast little hearts:
www.pittnews.com
they burned a flag in the middle of a major city street that passes through campus during rush hour Wednesday evening...uh, THAT would be how they ended up getting arrested (well, only 10 out of maybe 500 got carted downtown.)
there will be protest on campus this Saturday, 3:30, 5th & Bigelow (Student Union Lawn.) it's broadbased anti-war & voter rights.
Activist Librarian
Cleveland OH and Pittsburgh PA are pretty much the same city in neighboring swing-states, when you look at the demographics...we Beat the Cheat here--i think the jury is maybe still out on Cleveland OH.
I'm gonna try again. (Crazy aren't I) Hell... ya make one post the next three are easy. I've seen all the news, I've obsessed about out "our" government has lied to us, we condoned torture, etc. etc. Not to minimize it at all but from a personal level I've educated myself way beyond what is required to know that I live in an America that is not the one I grew up loving and believing in.
I've got to do something beyond sending money to the DNC so they can lose again. (And I'm a middle-aged guy who never sent money before).
I may be a complete idiot but I'd like to try to start a grass-roots level discussion group here where I live. Is there anyone on Oahu interested in helping me?
Someone asked Bush if he wasn't lowering the bar at the White House. He replied, "Heck, no, I can barely crawl out of it now!"
48 percent of this country, (more probably) voted for Kerry.
Almost half,more probably, of this country is liberal.
Smart businessmen would move their network to the left to try to pick up even bigger shares than Fox from Progressives instead of trying to cut into Fox's viewership.
But instead of doing that they try to stay center/right and are getting their asses kicked.
What kind of morons do you have to be to continue to do the same crap that hasn't worked? That question should be posed to the Democratic establishment as well.
Oh, and we aren't the Democratic establishment. WE are the Democratic radicals and we are going to take back our party.
Call the DNC and demand that Dean take Terry C.'s place.
It's amazing what one too many drinks will get you doing isn't it? I just came home from a long conversation with a Republican friend of mine who is very unhappy with what is going on in our beautiful country. The dialog was great. Now I'm here back at this computer asking again... is there anyone out there on Oahu that wants to help me get together a group of humans to talk about our country and what we can do to save it. Fuck parties. Fuck getting someone elected. I am talking about talking to each other one on one. Any help. Any ideas?
Wow! It took losing an election for you twits to realise that computer voting is a dipstick idea? We on the other side have been talking about this since Florida.
Anybody, even a partially lobotomised drug addled liberal, who owns or uses a computer should know from personal experience (say by how much trouble it was for you to install that newest version of GTO) that punch card ballots were a hell of a lot more reliable then a computer touch screen.
Pencil and paper ballots are still more desirable then even the punch cards. Less of a fudge factor involved in the tally.
Anyhow it's nice to hear you all discussing moral issues once again. Funny how having your ass handed to you in a national election will do that. Yes by all means offer legislation forbidding partial birth abortion. It will pass without challenge. Propose fair distribution of Federal funds. You will get no arguement from the right.
Better still join us. Vote out the less then useless Feinstien and Boxer (who are just representative of the democratic party in my locality) who allow yours and my tax dollars to be wisked away to pay ACLU lawyers to bar cub scouts from using city parkland for meetings. You know in your heart of hearts we are right.
from Kos
Kerry and other Dems should have gone apeshit in Congress when states started using HANVA (Help America Not Vote Act) money to buy paperless machines with code based on Windows from Republican donors.
There were recent bills pending that required it, which the Dems had little or no interest in. If they're so savvy, how could they have let this go by?
blackboxvoting.org, verifiedvoting.org and other hot sites were Paul Revering it (John Kenney even started a hunger strike about it). CA Secretary of State did something about it (Kevin Shelley--now suffering mysterious accusations of fraud, after throwing Diebold out of San Diego and suing them). There were struggles in many states, including Ohio, home of Diebold Inc.
So why didn't the DNC and Dems in Congress do something?
QUESTION:
What about OTHER states with paperless systems? What about my scenario of their shaving off %'s here and there, to turn several OTHER states first, then having it come down to Ohio and provisional ballots (their having already suppressed some votes and challenged others there--in Dem and minority precincts), where they know they have a Republican deciding on which provisional ballots to verify?
These other states I'm worrying about are probably the states that are delaying their response to Bev Harris' FOIA requests. (She needs help, by the way--lawyers, money and citizens--see blackboxvoting.org.)
What I mean is: The count in Ohio may be intentionally a corner that they pushed Kerry into (with a Repub deciding which votes are good, in a relatively small group of votes). But how did he get pushed into that corner? (FLA and other states then become more important.)
There are apparently some strange anomalies in all states with paperless systems (like Bush getting about 5% more than the tracking polls, in all cases). This needs to be investigated.
And is anybody following the Sproul case--how many Dem registrations did he toss or suppress, and where?
This election was stolen, plain and simple.
All those moaning and wanting to become more like republicans, in order to get the vote, you are wasting your good time. We are the majority party, and we'd better start acting and behaving like one, or they are going to feel they can railroad over us. They already have...but we need to turn the train around and send it right back in their direction.
I'm formulating a manifesto for truly democratic elections to be held in this country. I hope others contribute their ideas as well. Read the forums on www.democraticunderground.com.
The people posting there sure don't sound like they have the spirit of a minority party.
I'll tell you what happens to people who allow their spirits to be broken by underhanded deceptions and shenanigans. I'll use Iraq as a metaphor.
Iraq became a looted country...you're not going to like this...because they believed themselves to be a defeated people, long ago.
In a sense, we have become like Iraq, because we have allowed our democracy, and national treasury, to be looted by thugs who care about one thing only: power and money. And I'm not talking about their followers.
It is time to turn the tables on these people, and reclaim this democracy that our forefathers created.
ren, meme, echidne, ron, sue & everyone else who is tracking this outright fraud & trying to get the word out--I LOVE YOU.
i haven't slept for more than 4 or 5 hours at a time since i watched what happened here in Pittsburgh on the 2nd, and just could not make it jive with what the Pravda Box was telling me.
i am NOT convinced we really lost this thing...(although i am willing to concede that we may have, it IS fucking close, either way, JUST LIKE IN 2000.)
what i AM TOTALLY SURE of, is that scams, intimidation of LEGAL voters absolutely happened, mostly in urban places in swing states, and lord knows how many votes were lost that way?! NAACP has a 21 page report up from Nov 1st (now we know why they set the IRS after them...)
but what i am MORE and more beginning to ALSO believe, is that tampering with the machines--which may be more easily provable--happened as well.
enough tampering to throw the electoral vote? maybe...
but adding the two issues together, we've been cheated, almost absolutely for sure.
in any case--I CALL FOUL.
this must be exposed, publicised.
i've been sending the best links and stories to everyone i can (including Bush voters like my family,) and also printing out the basic facts and links and posting them around the city...samizdat, if you will.
we are still within the critical window, the theft is still being carried out--don't be distracted.
we can ponder 'till the cows come home why we "lost" or how we should "strategize" for the future, or how to "get over it"...LATER. there's no time limit on that shit.
RIGHT NOW we may still be able to catch the redux of FLA 2000 in progress and STOP IT.
if not stop it, we can at least be sure that enough people will be good and pissed off enough to march in DC on January 20th or to insist upon reform of the process.
BUT WE HAVE TO DO IT NOW.
i don't know why Atrios (or Kerry for that matter) isn't looking into this--maybe he's holding off, maybe he's waiting to spring something...i don't know. and frankly i don't care!
but meanwhile, the personal experiences must be collected, the stats must be looked at and we have to get them out.
fuck the TV--they are NOT going to help us now, or ever!
this is totally DIY.
communicate while you still can.
-Librarian
Hey... I've got a crazy ass idea. How about each one of you (and I am one of you, especialily the ones who never post but just lurk)... how about we target just one Bush voter and gently, slowly, pursuasively... using logic, truth, facts, love and humanity, convince them that just maybe GW isn't the best thing for our country? How about we try that?
If you scream at someone that they are an idiot they will want to hit you. Try something differnt. Convince em one at a fucking time.
Paul Krugman has spoken:
Democrats shouldn't cave in to Mr. Bush when he tries to appoint highly partisan judges - even when the effort to block a bad appointment fails, it will show supporters that the party stands for something. They should gear up for a bid to retake the Senate or at least make a major dent in the Republican lead. They should keep the pressure on Mr. Bush when he makes terrible policy decisions, which he will.
It's all right to take a few weeks to think it over. (Heads up to readers: I'll be starting a long-planned break next week, to work on a economics textbook. I'll be back in January.) But Democrats mustn't give up the fight. What's at stake isn't just the fate of their party, but the fate of America as we know it.
Indeed.
yeah I know.. I can't spell. It's the left-wing liberal air I'm breathing
yeah I know.. I can't spell. It's the left-wing liberal air I'm breathing
I agree. Fuck the media. We are our own media now, and have been for some time. Insisting on fairness from this media is a waste of time. The national media, with the exception possibly of CBS, has bought these results lock, stock and barrel. All of the networks will now move even more towards the right, in the hope of securing viewers from what they consider to be the majority party. But it doesn't matter...because we don't need them...to be frank.
There are plenty of outlets for our views, and more will be created.
I'm a newby double poster. Sorry.
scorpio, there are no broken spirits in MY city--although some of our spirits may be thinking about BREAKING shit...
i don't care who was "right" or "wrong" in their predictions, i don't care if the Dems did enough, too much, or were even fuckin complicit--THIS IS ABOUT THE PEOPLE, not the parties.
suppression & intimidation happened.
theft MAYBE happened...
PEOPLE MUST KNOW.
and no, the TV ain't gonna' tell them.
WE have to TELL them.
and we better do it NOW...the window is closing.
-Librarian, undistractable
(and in case anyone wonders, i've been around here for nearly a year, and i USED to be very even-handed and all middle-grounded and so on. i'm no greenshirt or brownshirt or anything else--look me up.)
WHEN and IF it is proven beyond any doubt that despite any shenanigans we still lost, well, then i'm sure i'll have plenty of time for hang-wringing and sad-faces then. but not now. no fucking way. i SAW what i SAW.
Hey.. I'm either had one too many glasses of wine or I may have a real idea. You tell me. How about one at a time. I know it isn't easy and some are way too drunk on kool-aid but I'm talking below grass-roots. I'm talking about finding ONE bush voter who isn't completely lost and slowly working on them. We have two years until the next round. Give me feedback. Should I just go to bed?
Lay awake last night - thinking what do emergency rooms do when a gunshot victim comes in - they triage. So should we. First, investigate the actual election. Next, we rethink our approach to building strength and alliances. Finally, we win (or win in the courts now when we take those machines down piece by piece to find the original ballots and strew their mangled pieces into the sea).
Kos has diaries posting alot of info on the black box issue - after depression comes anger, and after anger, action! Kerry promised to count every vote; we have to put $$ into investigating this issue - now and before the next election.
Hey.. I'm either had one too many glasses of wine or I may have a real idea. You tell me. How about one at a time. I know it isn't easy and some are way too drunk on kool-aid but I'm talking below grass-roots. I'm talking about finding ONE bush voter who isn't completely lost and slowly working on them. We have two years until the next round. Give me feedback. Should I just go to bed?
Hey.. I'm either had one too many glasses of wine or I may have a real idea. You tell me. How about one at a time. I know it isn't easy and some are way too drunk on kool-aid but I'm talking below grass-roots. I'm talking about finding ONE bush voter who isn't completely lost and slowly working on them. We have two years until the next round. Give me feedback. Should I just go to bed?
newbie chuck--we don't mean to ignore you (and, um, every time you refresh you will repost your last message by the way!)
people are in a frenzy (moreso elsewhere than here.)
we're trying to head of the Kristalnacht.
where is your city anyway?
-L.
What I have been able to find tonight, just cruising the net, is enough for me to say that the whole thing definitely should be studied. Someone with good statistical skills and political knowhow should analyze the available data from all the different states.
I don't know if there was fraud of an obvious type or not, but there are several reasons to be very suspicious:
a) the Republicans have fought paper trail machines
b) the head of Diebold gives money to Bush and has promised to deliver Ohio to him
c) the Republicans tried to stop all exit polling in Ohio before the elections
d) the data on Florida election results shows that there is something different in counties that used optical scanner machines
e) Ohio has some very funny results, such as the one that was reported above in this thread, and, indeed, the article referring to it has been removed from the newspaper that was linked to
f) According to Greg Palast at least, there are precincts in New Mexico where nobody voted for the president at all (Hispanic or Indian precincts, I can't remember which). Though this may be possible, it deserves further looking into.
Add your own reasons.
ren--Sproul pulled their scam here in Pittsburgh. This American Life interviewed the Carnegie Public Librarian who caught them at it, the transcript is posted on Moshthevote (i think that's their addy?) at least two other scams were pulled on my students as well, that we caught...
eriposte has good summaries by state of a lot of this shit.
-L.
Damn double post again. Sorry.
It seems to be a truth from polling that people who vote for Bush are doing it on a basis of false assumptions (LIES). Do you know one Bush voter who might change their mind if you didn't just say they were an idiot and write them off?
Of course there would have to be a viable alternative, politically, to look to as an option. A new, clear, strong message of a different future for America is needed. I pray we will find one powerful enough to withstand the Rove onslaught.
We have no influence because America has decided to sell ourselves to the highest bidder.
The military machine in Iraq is paid for by the Chinese and Japanese. They will get the oil if any oil flows.
In addition, we get goodies from them to keep us quiet and keep us in hock.
Our military costs $400 billion a year. the deficit is over $600 billion a year. So around $200 billion of Japanese/Chinese money is for other goodies like Homeland Security.
Bush is cutting more taxes even more ruthlessly. We voted for this. He is gambling that this will continue. We are being boxed in and will have to start handing over real realestate to pay for all this.
Chuck
I have a similar sentiment.
We should be civil to a fault.
If the other side could just calm
down a little bit, they will realize
that they are in the same party as
the KKK and that will make them
suddenly uncomfortable. Have you ever
started doing something stupid just
to get noticed and then everybody
started playing along and watching
you and suddenly you realized that
you just look stupid?
sue--triage is totally on target!
prove the suppression & fraud, get it UP into the public discourse.
with enough anger, maybe we can demand reform of the systems.
there's no point to expanding the base or motivation or common ground or any of that, if all future "elections" are going to be shams.
it takes a lot of pebbles to start an avalanche, and we don't have a lot of time. tell everyone you can, online, in person, and on the street.
if nothing else, we'll be building motivation for future anti-war or whatever protests are needed.
how long ago was it now, that there was very nearly a "bloodless" military coup in Moscow that was prevented because regular people had internet and especially cel phone text access and they got the word out? (i'll look it up if no one remembers--it wasn't that long ago.)
-L.
Librian sez:
we're trying to head of the Kristalnacht.
Yep.
In good news, the Reichsag hasn't been burned (yet).
(BTW: Librarian: 'burgher here!)
.
Librarian,
Thanks for letting me know I exist here. Huge hugs to you. I have watched your posts and feel I know you. Strange world huh? I have been trying not to double post by the refresh. I will learn soon or just fade away.
I live in Kanehoe on the Island of Oahu. Just a malahini haole from California. Goddamn but don't we have to do something to save our counry?
This morning CBS had a brief post-election interview with Katrina vanden Heuvel. Granted, it was aired at 5am, but I still choose to be encouraged by it.
For the time being, I'm going to keep my eye on ABC and CBS. Since the election, each network has had good moments. I get the feeling they are poised to cover it as the signs mount that we are trending left, which I believe we are.
that's Kaneohe not Kanehoe. Good Cabernet. Wish I had some french cheese.
that's Kaneohe not Kanehoe. Good Cabernet. Wish I had some french cheese.
Jesus. Judging by those ratings Alan Colmes is the face of the dems.
Guarantee Drudge is skewing up FOX's ratings. Where's the real stats.
found the Moscow coup story--it was in 1991, so i think i just outed my AGE, but anyway:
www.themoscowtimes.com/indexes/146.html
(hope that doesn't break haloscan!)
-L.
Jesus Judging Bukkake Hannity.
Fixed - The Stealing of Another Election (Democratic Underground.com) --by EarlG --Kerry winning Exit Polls --"FRAUD LOOKS PROBABLE --SoCalDem has done a statistical analysis... ...on several swing states, and EVERY STATE that has EVoting but no paper trails has an unexplained advantage for Bush of around +5% when comparing exit polls to actual results. In EVERY STATE that has paper audit trails on their EVoting, the exit poll results match the actual results reported within the margin of error. So, we have MATCHING RESULTS for exit polls vs. voting with audits vs. A 5% unexplained advantage for Bush without audits
////
fuck... did it again. I think I need a lesson. I'm going to go back to the one on one idea. It's a fact that they don't know the truth about why they are voting for this guy.
Think of yourselves as missionaries in a hostile land. I have my own primary target. I didn't get to her in time for this election but she isn't JPS (just plain stupid). If I had really tried to make the time and work on the rational part of her brain I know I could have at least convinced her not to vote for Bush. There are millions of us Reality Based humans. Most of the other side are not idiots they are just not paying enough attention. Don't tell them they are idiots. Listen to them and talk to them.
fuck... did it again. I think I need a lesson. I'm going to go back to the one on one idea. It's a fact that they don't know the truth about why they are voting for this guy.
Think of yourselves as missionaries in a hostile land. I have my own primary target. I didn't get to her in time for this election but she isn't JPS (just plain stupid). If I had really tried to make the time and work on the rational part of her brain I know I could have at least convinced her not to vote for Bush. There are millions of us Reality Based humans. Most of the other side are not idiots they are just not paying enough attention. Don't tell them they are idiots. Listen to them and talk to them.
Liberals are probably all watching
"Survivor" or "Desperate Housewives"
on the networks while conseratives
are watching FOX on cable. If we
put a bunch of horny housewives on
an island and made them fight over
health care, maybe we could draw
a 5 or 6 share!
http://tv.yahoo.com/nielsen/
hey Spork--i have no idea how many will show up for the campus protest on Saturday afternoon, but maybe we can bump up those numbers? it's mainly a Thomas Merton thing, but at this point, i think we're looking at a sort of "anyone who is pissed off about anything" coalition, which now that appearances are irrelevant, sounds just fine to me! bring on the hoodies and the bandana face kids
and i'd like to see more Voter Fraud Atriots there!
and, uh, i think our Reichstag was burned on Sept. 11th (which would be just about the same time that the 2000 FLA election fraud was about to surface--this is why i'm afraid that time is short now...)
-L.
lightly--i agree with you on CBS. they're Viacom, which is one of the lesser of the Five Big International Evils when it comes to media. they broke the Abu Ghraib pics, even when asked not to do it, and on Tuesday night they were the last hold-out after Rove/Fox declared their popular vote "landslide" before CA even finished voting.
(this might also be why they got Punked--if that's what happened--on the Bush National Guard memo.)
-L.
Boycott idea
We canceled our TV cable connection when the war started.
We did not want to pay for "all propaganda all the time"
News and radio come from the web and our movies from Netflicks.
All the best clips are posted in real time and we don't mind watching Pop culture programs a year late when they are released on DVD.
I think it is still the case that these companies are highly leveraged and any small change to cash flow throws them into a tizzy.
Campaign to cut home budgets for these poor times by cutting out "discretionary entertainment" expanses might get their attention.
Boycott idea
We canceled our TV cable connection when the war started.
We did not want to pay for "all propaganda all the time"
News and radio come from the web and our movies from Netflicks.
All the best clips are posted in real time and we don't mind watching Pop culture programs a year late when they are released on DVD.
I think it is still the case that these companies are highly leveraged and any small change to cash flow throws them into a tizzy.
Campaign to cut home budgets for these poor times by cutting out "discretionary entertainment" expanses might get their attention.
County by county
http://www.princeton.edu/%7Ervdb...ica_2004.gif\"> election results
It'a about refusing major media coverage until such a time as that coverage is balanced.
It's about letting PEOPLE ask the candidates questions
but for now, apparently, it's about loyalty oaths. Democrats should demand them too, loyalty to justice, fairness, and human dignity. Just for a week, just to make the point.
arrgh sorry for breaking haloscan. i know better.
Note to CNN and MSNBC: there are 55.7 million of us not currently being served by any news organization. If you'd like to increase your ratings, how about giving us what we want?
chuck--you can't find a liberal in CALIFORNIA? then good goddess all is truly lost!
:0
the re-post thing--once you post anything, it will re-post every time you refresh unless you:
1. type something new in the window
or
B. close the post window and re-open it.
it's a Haloscan thing.
talking to people as people is good, and that your first instinct is to do so shows your heart is in the right place.
sadly, right at the moment, that is not going to help things, i'm afraid.
i grew up with a mom who turned Fundie when i was 5 or 6. my dad, a lapsed & bitter Catholic, held out until i was away at college, but one day he apparently just couldn't argue with her anymore.
they don't believe in logic.
now, some Republicans/Bush voters are different, and maybe they will see where they have been fooled. but it's like trying to talk sense into a battered wife--"he only hits me because he loves me and i deserve it."
good on you for trying, but don't get your hopes up. it is not rational or even passionate argument that can reach them--it's more like some kind of Zen toilet stick to the head that gets them (if they can be reached at all.)
-L.
"Time Warner and General Electic, makes decisions purely on what is profitable for their cable news network subdivisions..."
ARE YOU NUTS?
people are making the mistake here that media's responisbility is to its viewers.
& that opressure from viewers can bring about change.
thats a sept 10th concept.
media serves ONLY its advertisers & the interests of its advertisers.
thats why there are so mnay ads on cnn & npr for things that YOU CANT EVEN BUY.
archer midland, kingdome homding co, etc.
they dont give a S H I T about viewers, its ***ALLL*** about keeping the advertisers satisfied.
& no, they dont CARE if they lose money, as long as it gets their message out.
to expand, i beleive that in previous times, televison networks had to BALANCE the wishes of their advertisers AND their viewers.
& thats not how it is anymore.
now the advertisers have total control.
& what they want aired is going to be aired whether anyone watches it or not.
you know, the benefit of pulling an all-nighter is that i get to listen to Amy Goodman in the morning...
my kids' have their story up now:
www.pittnews.com
protest Saturday 3:30 5th & Bigelow (for you Pittsburghers.)
-L.
"Liberals are probably all watching
"Survivor" or "Desperate Housewives"
on the networks while conseratives
are watching FOX on cable. If we
put a bunch of horny housewives on
an island and made them fight over
health care, maybe we could draw
a 5 or 6 share! "
TBS is actually going to do a "reality" version of "Gilligan's Island."
These are the end of days.
new thread up--time to go get current!
-L.
Hey, I LIVE in a red state, and there are plenty of liberals around. Boycotting vigorous businesses like Whole Foods (Austin-based -- a VERY liberal city) is not the solution. Listen, people, a red state doesn't mean EVERYONE there is red, and regardless, Whole Foods supports a lot of small organic farmers in BLUE states.
This shouldn't be about punishing red states. Can we be a little more constructive?
Olbermann is my favorite cable news show, but I hardly ever watch it. The problem is that I can never remember to turn on the set exactly at the time when he comes on. To do otherwise, I take a chance that I might have to sit through even a few minutes of absolutely unwatchable pukes like Scarborough or the absolutely repulsive Dan Abrams, or Chris Matthews when he's in one of those "regular guys" moods.
I agree that GE and Time Warner don't make decisions about their "news" operations to ensure that those operations make money. I gave up cable in February (Time Warner) in protest of how they have made CNN unwatchable. I bought a new computer (Mac, screw Dell) and finally got rid of AOHell. The rep was upset because I was a 10 year customer. I told him that I was cancelling AOHell in protest of Time Warner's management of CNN. He implied that my move was an empty gesture, but he was not pleased. I used the word boycott. Let's see if that gets back to anyone.
Chuck - I don't think that's necessary. I think that we are the majority in this country and we were cheated again. But there are people who voted for Bush who will be ready to hang themselves in about - oh, several months to a year or so.
In the meantime, there is lots we can, should and will do.
I happen to think that it is important for the country that this election be investigated. I don't think it will change the outcome, but we have got to change our voting system, and evidence of another stolen election will do two things: piss people off even worse at this administration and get people to realize that they need to get up and work with us to change this ridiculous patchwork federal election system.
Assuming there is another election, the only solution is this:
No Democrat votes on election day. Period.
We all vote by absentee ballot. If possible, go to your local election office and pick up the absentee ballot yourself, and then go back there and physically hand it to them when you're finished with it.
It will make actual election day look very lopsided, until they get around to counting the real votes.
But with the system as it is now, we can no longer afford to vote on unreliable, untraceable machines. I have some slim hope that enough Dems in Florida and Ohio were warned about this bullshit ahead of time, that they filed absentee as well...
Wow, Atrios, you beat me to it again. I can't get up any earlier than I do now.
Kill CNN, drive a stake though its heart, pin it to the earth.
And if you recall, Phil Donahue had better ratings than ANY of these MSNBC or CNN programs.
General Electric, ironically, was a pioneering force in corporate liberalism. Its president, Gerard Swope, played a leading role in crafting the New Deal agenda.
I hope no one's already posted this same thought, but my fantasy for a while has been something like:
Soros, Gore, Theresa, Turner, whatever other rich and connected libs we can get start up a 24 hour news network.
The full on news programming will be absolutely bullshit and spin free, no matter who's doing the spinning (like what Jon Stewart's been suggesting).
The network could call out to all serious journalists: Hey, want to be able to ask tough questions, do real investigative journalism and absolutely never have to worry about where they lead or what powerful interest they threaten? Then come work for us. Maybe Seymour Hersh would come work for us.
If they did this and started breaking real stories, and getting all the big stories that slip through the cracks out there back in the public's eye, I believe they'd get a great reputation and ratings to match. (What's the last actual news one of the 24 hour networks broke?)
Later on in the evening, once the regular news is over, true leftist commentary/talking head shows, not the scream-fests of fox, but they should definitely be entertaining and professionally produced. I see things like "Framing the Issues with your host, Howard Dean" (tonights guests: Paul Krugman, George Lakoff and some dude from the Cato institute to tell us what happened to the libertarian wing of the Republican party). Followed by The Nightly Blog, with your hosts Atrios and Markos (seated across from each other on stools with laptops in front of them, pulling up items from the day's press and commenting on it, having guests, other bloggers, politicians, etc. Having the Kos dozen candidates on regularly to make their case...And a Friday evening Cat fest!
I think also some show of either international news, like the BBC or just some show looking at news from around the world from a non-America-centric perspective. Let people who watch it know that not everyone sees things the way we do in the states. Do real coverage of stories like the Darfur genocide.
Maybe lure Jon Stewart off of Comedy Central? Keep the exact same format but give him an hour to work with (the only thing I don't like about the show is it always seems to end too soon...it's one of the best 30 minutes of my day: let's make that one of the best hours...)
Anyone out there got some other suggestions...I really think there's a market for a combination real news and liberal commentary channel out there, and dammit, our country needs something like this right now...
SMASH YOUR TV.
liberals don't make good television performers
Ridiculous. They make the best performers. E.g., Jon Stewart. That's a Repub line of crap. O'Reilly is entertaining? Here's a good rule of thumb: high school and college kids know entertaining - that's what they've been taught - how to consume entertainment. How many college kids watch O'Reilly or listen to Rush? Compare and contrast with TDS or Howard Stern.
Randi Rhodes has a much better explanation, and it explains not only why Clear Channel wouldn't go national with her (even though she cleaned Rush's clock in his own home market year in and year out) but also why Donahue, lame though he was, was dropped despite having higher ratings than most of his competition. That is, deregulation. The mediacos want it like junkies want smack and the Repubs deliver it. It's worth more to them than all the ratings in the world. End of story.
Oh, yes the opportunity is there. You've got three of them wrestling over 51% of market, while the other 49% remains completely unserviced. Air America TV anyone?
Mr. Tiger, I've had a similar thought but with the addition of a real national newspaper that presents NEWS from JOURNALISTS from the entire globe, not just the USA and what slice of the outside world affects us this week. Just someone who presented real news to adults - there HAS to be a market for that, even if just a niche one. Hell, CSPAN and the Weather Channel have audiences.
But in reality I think a single news source universally regarded as reliable, like the old CNN or BBC, would find a huge INTERNATIONAL market. All world leaders/decision makers/Wall Street guys/Fortune 500 types would have to tune in - reality still matters to them (if they're any good), but CNN and all the network news in the USA are increasingly tailoring their product to the fantasy fucktards of Jesusland.
How come they can't figure out that 100% of half the country is a bigger share than 1/3 of the other half?
I thought John Stewart's show had higher ratings. Stewart's show has a large fan base and is one of the most trustest shows on TV. I do not see how his show is not on this rating list.
The GOP is now reaping the benefit of 40 years of organized strategy. They got together around 1960 and decided they could live with their differences for the greater cause of advancing the perty. Fox and right wing radio is the product. Also the cultural devide was a strategy started 2 generations ago. And they have perfected the art of linquistics and framing ideas.It is similar to a cult movement.Our response has to be ORGANIZED.The strategies have to have long term goals. The party has to get going on a plan and disseminate it. Fragmented and duplicate measures will not work.There is power in numbers. We need to put pressure on the top of the Democratic party to LEAD!
liberals don't make good television performers
Then why are the Republican fundamentalists always whining about liberals in the media? They always say this but they also lie and whine, piss and moan about liberal domination of the media, including TV.
The idea of a leftist 24hr news station is a good one, there are plenty of people who work in news who would like to escape the brothels and start doing honest work. They've got to be screened though, you can't take the hard core cases and trust them. They're not like sex workers, they had choices in alternative employment which they chose not to take.
Oh, and, folks. Don't go all Hentoffy on us. There is absolutely no reason to be fair to conservatives, none. They've been playing dirty all along, don't let those Fireing Line questioners fool you. You've got to rip them to shreds. If we do it by telling the truth that's as fair as they deserve.
Keep your worries about fairness for the viewers. They deserve the facts and the truth not keeping Nat feeling calm.
The GOP is now reaping the benefit of 40 years of organized strategy.
They're reaping the benefit of 6 years of carefully orchestrated electoral fraud.
Starting with the "felon purge" in Florida's voter rolls, and continuing through to the vote hacking that happened on Tuesday, plus a dash of their old favorites, keep the darkies down, and smear the queer.
The only "strategy" here is to play to the basest instincts of terrified, hateful sheep, and employ outright treason against the rest of the American people to make up the difference.
I can't seem to beleive why they just don't rip off the format of H&C and O'Reilly and bend them to liberal bias. I mean it's worth a shot to see what would happen. Instead of consistent failure shows like DM and Jonny Mac or Scarborough. Have a real weak nerdy Republcian and put someone like Ed Schultz or Randi Rhodes next to them. Only allow the Dem to speak. Then have a loud mouthed guy who claims to be independent but is clearly a progressive/liberal who shouts down his weak conservative guests. Talking about how all the the rigth wing lying kooks are out to get him and are destroying the moral fabric of our country. He could have a weekly segment featuring religious conservative kooks that are destroying America, the real far out ones like Alan Keyes and Daniel Carver and those damn american hating "hollywood conservatives" the really dumb ones that can't put together a single thought like Britany Spears. Just blantantly steal the entire format with an opposite bias. Please if anyone out in Tv land wants to steal this idea feel free.
You guys are turning into completely unfocused bile-spewers. Let's move on and actually accomplish something. Start by writing to someone other than righty lurkers on the boards. The following is a great piece with strong points:
http://
www.editorandpublisher.co...t_id=1000706802
Go do similar.
http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen.asp
http://www.airamericaradio.com/l....com/
listen.asp
air america
My new friends:
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r55
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