I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
They're going to "reform" it, like Medicare. Now on to Mars, bitches!
There's a plan. They just haven't revealed it yet. Last minute stuff like the Medicare bill.
Well, I don't suppose this has anything to do with the fact that AARP is an Insurance Company which pretends to represent folks over fifty but actually only represents its own interests.
This is what happens when the dems never fight for anything. Even their "allies" become coopted.
In the reality-based community, the more you know, the more you want to vomit.
I'm gonna need a bigger bucket.
Shame on AARP.
The plan is to destroy America and then the elderly will go to ice floes and be shoved to sea.
Except the ice floes are melting, all the better, the GOP feels.
And if this is what America wants, then enjoy!
corruption meter pegged four years ago.
Old people look silly in brownshirts and armbands.
What're we gonna call these sellouts? "Great-Uncle Toms"?
Sheesh!
.
When a Republican says "privatization," or "ownership,"
or, for that matter, "reform"--reach for your wallet and maybe your passport.
This crowd will not rest until they have extracted every last dollar from our tottering economy.
The AARP is a corporate entity that sells stuff to the elderly. IE: the elderly are to be milked and bilked at their leisure.
Quite a few quit the last go around. But according to the voting, all the elderly resort states are solid red so...BLEED, baby, bleed.
I am on the verge of retiring and I am alarmed at all of this stuff but then, I am sane. I suppose the people who went before me think they can close the door and lock all of us out but they forget, the door shuts will shut THEM in, too.
And the werewolves stalking them are pretty merciless. They believe Jesus tells them to rip off granny and knock of gramps.
AARP mails me ads. I return their postage-paid envelopes stuffed with cat turds from my front flowerbed.
i loudly and profanely quit AARP when the amangement rolled over and bared the organization's belly during last year's Medicaid/Drug Card flap. AARP is a fuckin sham, where the true interests of seniors is concerned...
I for one welcome our naz.., er, republican overlords.
long hours, no benefits, no health coverage when, if i retire
I think the real plan is to use the feeble, elder, and poor as fuel instead of coal, oil, gas, or other natural resources. The neocons have decided it will be more economically efficient to burn bodies directly instead of sending our solders to the middle east to echange their blood for oil. By attacking those members of society that are most vunerable, the repugs hope to increase thier control over our policical system and eliminate those that are likely to dissent against the wave of fraudulent elections they plan for the future.
I know I speak for ALL anonymouses when I say, RC is spot on.
Per a Slate article: the word to use is "destroy." They are not looking to "privatize" Social Security, they are looking to DESTROY Social Security. We need to frame the issue if we want to win. Every time Dems talk about it, we should lament that the Repubs want to destroy Social Security. Over and over again - "they want to destroy Social Security." Bang it into everyone's heads.
It's not 'privatization', it's commericialization.
Now the money from FICA goes to the government, and it's not really yours.
If the non-plan is adopted, your money, or a part of it, goes to Legg Mason, or Mario Gabelli, or Scudder.
At least with the government, come November, I can throw the bums out.
How do I throw out the bums at Vanguard, or American Century?
It's the "Financial Services Industry Full Employment and Guaranteed Profitability in Perpetuity Act of 2005", folks.
The scariest thing is this "[word] has no fixed or definte meaning" meme. By declaring that language has no meaning except for some ambiguity assigned by the powerful, it leaves real people unable to respond. It is the ultimate patriarchal ploy and one favoured by theocracies everywhere: "only WE control the words of power". Think Latin mass.
And be very afraid.
For some incredible insight into the inner sanctum of the evangelical BUSINESS. Yes BUSINESS, not movement. Check out the KOS diary in my homepage.
The auther has a cousin who let him into the underworld of the evangelical franchise INDUSTRY. It's run like any typical huckster pyramid scheme-like Amway operation yet it's all 100% TAX FREE.
They gather members in who are all hard on their luck and down in the dumps both emotionally and financially. Get them to begin contributing to the "church", build more members up who then contribute MORE, again, ALL TAX FREE, brainwash them with passages from the bible interspersed with political hate-speech and if any of them get out of line or decide they can't afford to continue paying but still want to be part of the "church" they humiliate and excoriate them in front of the "flock"
This is brainwashing on a NATIONAL scale yet it's quite scary that they are using a political movement to change government policy affecting the entire planet and it's future.
Check it out but be warned, it's long and it'll probably make you sick.
Good idea, Cranky. Seeing how some of us are getting on in years, maybe we should join a more progressive organization for the elderly. Are the Gray Panthers still around?
The name should be changed to AARgoP. They too want nothing more than to fleece the elderly, and the not so elderly. But as another poster noted, perhaps the older Bush voters need to learn a hard lesson about where voting thier "morals" will take them.
ot
leading questions skewed that "values" poll.
>>The Pew poll found that voters' reasons for picking "moral values" varies. Just over four in 10 of those who picked "moral values" from the list mentioned social issues like gay marriage and abortion, but others talked about qualities like religion, helping the poor, and candidates' honesty and strength of leadership.
"We did not see any indication that social conservative issues like abortion, gay rights and stem cell research were anywhere near as important as the economy and Iraq," said Andrew Kohut, director of the Pew Research Center. "'Moral values' is a phrase that's very attractive to people."
Going OT here. I have been in contact with a civilian in Iraq who needs some assistance. He is looking for donations of school supplies for Iraqi children. I have his permission to post all pertinent contact info for him. Please take a minute to read through his comments and maybe send some supplies his way.
"Thanks so much for your support. Please put out the word, my contact information and my mailing address here in Iraq to as many people as we can. I can distribute as many supplies as people can send. The people only need pay postage to the coast as the US government will pay the cost to then bring the supplies on to Iraq.
I truly have found myself in a unique position as the Civilian Personnel Advisor here in Iraq. All civilians to include American contractors come through my office. These folks have contracts to build and repair schools throughout Iraq. It is easy for me to get school supplies into their hands for distribution to the students. The only thing I require is photo documentation of the children actually receiving the supplies and that the supplies go directly from either a soldier or an American, both so that the children make a connection of friendship and to insure that the supplies are not simply sold which can happen if just given to an Iraq national. The connections you make could bring supplies for thousands of children. Imagine what that could do for a child that has nothing. I have spoken to the contractors that have visited schools throughout the country. They will tell you that the buildings are filthy and in need of serious repair. Trash fills what was once a play yard and the children have no tools for learning."
Mailing Address:
Matthew L. Johnson
Civilian Personnel Advisor
C-1, DCSPER, MNF-I
Camp Victory, Iraq
APO, AE 09342
Again, thanks for your kind support.
Regards,
MATTHEW JOHNSON
Civilian Personnel Advisor
DSN: 318-822-1117
Iraqna: 0790-192-4087
Email: matthew.johnson2@
vcmain.hq.c5.army.mil
Here is a list of some of the items they are looking for:
"We are looking for pencils, notebook paper, small 8 color crayon sets, ink pens, small calculators, scissors, rulers (must have metric on at least one side) erasers, small pencil sharpeners, and any other school supply you can think of. If we can get folks to donate large quantities of supplies, we will make up little individual kits for each child."
Eschatonians, I have a son in the Army who is headed to Iraq or Afghanistan in the next 5 months. I see this as a way to maybe make things a bit safer for him, and make a difference in the lives of Iraqi children. Please forward this to anyone you think might help
has anyone donated to the green or libertarian parties to help pay for their efforts to get the Ohio vote counted?
The republicans (see Frank Luntz) are killings America with these word games that distort what is actually going on:
climate change vs global warming
death tax vs estate tax
It is a sham and we have to put a stop to it somehow, or at least raise awareness.
The neocons have decided it will be more economically efficient to burn bodies directly instead of sending our solders to the middle east to echange their blood for oil.
Ok, but how am I going to put your grandmother into the gas tank of my SUV?
You could write to public@nytimes.com, or you could wrap your message in plain brown paper and throw it into the cracks of doom. Either way.
Once again, Orwell had it right. Control the language and you control the thinking.
"Reform" rather than "privatization" or, more accurately, "destruction." "Plan" rather than "vague soundbyte that is supposed to appeal to people". We've already seen a lot of this and we need to stand up against it.
I think the real plan is to use the feeble, elder, and poor as fuel instead of coal, oil, gas, or other natural resources.
They may be right, but it would probably be more economically efficient (not to mention ecologically friendly) to eat them rather than burn them as fuel.
'AARP' is onomatopoeic: the noise of capitulation.
If you don't speak about it, then it must not be so...
Scary stuff ~ this Rovian mind set.
My parents quit the AARP after the prescription drug fiasco.
Message sent.
OT:
Do you think a majority of Catholics would have voted for bush if they knew his base hates them?
2004 Election Exit Poll Results
Catholic Percentage of Electorate: 27%
Kerry 47%
bush 52%
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/
1...ry_15546_1.html
Bush spoke at Bob Jones University when he was running for his first term in the White House. At the time, the school banned interracial dating and included anti-Roman Catholic material on its Web site.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news...cid=703&e=2&u=/
ap/20041112/ap_on_re_us/bob_jones_bush
Bob Jones III, president of the fundamentalist college that bears his name:
"You have been given a mandate. ... Put your agenda on the front burner and let it boil. You owe the liberals nothing. They despise you because they despise your Christ,"
Until the "liberal media" is held accountable nothing changes.
I suggest reframing this reframe to "personal bankruptcy accounts."
And I notice that this is one more instance of trying to shift risk from the collective level (government, business) to the individual level. Reminds me of that LA Times article a while back (sorry no link, but it is in Kevin Drum's archives), that discussed how much more personal risk people live with today thanks to all these relentless conservative policies over the past few decades. I guess the thought is that we are stronger when we stand alone than when we stand together?
They may be right, but it would probably be more economically efficient (not to mention ecologically friendly) to eat them rather than burn them as fuel.
That would give new meaning to the term "old family recipe," wouldn't it?
"Right now there is no plan, just a stump speech." Pretty much sums up the Kerry campaign.
for years now, my dad has been using the postage-prepaid envelopes in AARP direct-mail solicitations to send them blank NRA membership applications.
sounds like maybe somebody filled one out.
climate change vs global warming
Actually, that is more accurate, since climate change has different effects in different parts of the world: for some places, it brings greater rainfall, in others, it brings drought. Most scientists talk about climate change.
But yes, Luntz took global warming off the political lexicon. And he deserves to have his kitsch mansion and its kitsch contents burned to the ground for 'death tax'. We'll call it 'carbon trading'.
I have a problem with this plan as a women's rights issue. Women do not work as much throughout their lives as men, and this is not going to change, well, ever really. This penalizes women for taking years off to raise their children when necessary, and it's ultimately silly because women live longer than men. Since people get divorced often, saying that a wife will get her husband's benefits is silly, and requires that women get married (less than 30% of Black women are married). What we are saying with this plan is that we don't want any homemakers in our society any more.
Yo, did anyone actually read the article cited???
They may not want to use the word privatize, but they do say this:
Marie F. Smith, president of the organization, said, "AARP adamantly opposes replacing any part of Social Security with individual accounts.'' But Ms. Smith added that the group supported incentives for people to establish personal retirement accounts in addition to Social Security.
John C. Rother, the organization's policy director, said, "We favor private accounts when they are in addition to Social Security, but not as a substitute.''
Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.
You know, I'm thinking about it a little more, and I think I wouldn't have a problem with the lack of the term "privatization" if the AARP had the balls to spell out exactly what Bush is proposing, what the risk is to the seniors who are already receiving benefits, and what the risks are to the people who would be covered by his "plan." They can call it the Great Green Banana in the Sky if they like, as long as they report accurately on what it entails.
Of course, you know they won't do that. They caved on medicare, they'll cave on this. What does the GOP do for them, anyway? What do they get out of crawling on their bellies to the Bushies? I really don't understand it.
From a recent White House interactive chat:
Q: Heidi from Grafton, WI:
My mother called me in a panic today, because she heard that President Bush has a plan to privatize Social Security. Is this right?
A: Suzy DeFrancis, Deputy Assistant to the President for Communications:
The President does not favor privatizing Social Security. There will be no changes in benefits for those now in or near retirement.
Under the President's vision for Social Security, the publicly administered Social Security system would still be there. The President favors increased personal ownership and control within Social Security for younger workers.
The President favors giving younger workers the opportunity to save a portion of their Social Security payroll taxes in a personal account which they would own and control, and could use to build a nest egg for their retirement, which they in turn could bequeath to their loved ones.
Social Security must be fixed for our children and our grandchildren. In 1950, there were 16 workers paying into Social Security for each person withdrawing benefits. Today, there are 3.3 workers to support each person on Social Security. By the time today's young workers retire, there will be only two workers to support each person on Social Security. The system that was designed in 1935 will need to be strengthened if it is to support the retirees of 2035.
A number of plans have been put forward that would ensure that full benefits are paid to today's retirees, fix the program for future generations, and give young workers the opportunity to have a Social Security personal account. Each of these proposals would fix the system permanently at less cost than the cost of sustaining the system permanently as it is currently structured.
To repeat: The President has promised that there will be no changes in benefits for those who are now in or near retirement. He also does not favor privatizing Social Security. Those who would say otherwise are scaring our seniors without foundation.
OT or maybe not...
For those of you who would like to force an investigation of voting irregularities, you might want to mosey on over HERE and sign the petition.
Cheers
The only thing I require is photo documentation of the children actually receiving the supplies and that the supplies go directly from either a soldier or an American, both so that the children make a connection of friendship and to insure that the supplies are not simply sold which can happen if just given to an Iraq national.
Those pictures will also be used as a propaganda tool.
I'm not saying that giving the children school supplies is not a good thing, afterall, we've (occupying forces) have reopened schools, schools, and more schools in Iraq, but when I read about the various war crimes committed against the country of Iraq (such as Fallujah) and read that just by being incountry, Iraqis are still being killed off, whether they are men, women, children, I wonder how these school supplies will help protect them. I don't think we know what the hell we are doing. I doubt very much that Al-zaquarwi (spelling?) was even in Fallujah. The inhabitants of Iraq are pissed because their relatives and countrymen have been/are being killed off, wounded, more at risk of airborn and waterborn diseases, etc.
Then, if they are angry and try to try to retain their country, they are branded as "insurgents". I read an article that the Iraqis helping the occupiers fight Fallujah are Kurds. That's something mainstream media fails to report.
Here's an article “We’re committing genocide in Iraq”
about a 12-year marine that everyone should read.
My argument sounds a bit unclear, but I hope everyone can see what I'm getting at. This program has a built in disadvantage for anyone who takes time off of work, for whatever reason, which goes to penalizing women.
Off topic:
"Survey: Format Influenced Voter Priorities."
Click homepage for link
"This presidential election has been described by many as one in which morality mattered most to voters. But that perception may be driven at least partially by how pollsters asked voters about their priority issues. Whether voters named "moral values" their key issue partly depended on whether that subject was included in a list of choices provided by pollsters, according to a Pew Research Center analysis released Thursday. When "moral values" was included in poll questions, it was named more often than any other issue. But when voters were just asked to name the issue most important in their vote for president — without being given a list of answers — moral values trailed the war in Iraq and the economy, according to the Pew survey. The advantage of the open-ended question is it tells you what's at the top of mind for voters — what they're thinking," said Cliff Zukin, a veteran pollster and professor of public policy at Rutgers University. "Much too much has been made of the moral values answer...."
MYOB'
.
You don't want to eat the elderly, too stringy. Now fetuses! Or rather, fetii, that is a delicacy. Note how "they" are always cannibals who eat babies.
Hrumf. I think we should call this Bush "plan" the proper name: "Ponzi scheme".
No, Chrissy, your argument's not the least bit unclear.
Interesting that the Republicans have this 1950's idea of women as standing behind their men, staying at home and raising the children, but their plan is designed to penalize any woman foolish enough to buy into their lies.
It's not a bad approach to take against the whole concept. If women voted their interests as strongly as seniors did, this would be a different country, I'm thinking.
Do you think a majority of Catholics would have voted for bush if they knew his base hates them?
Plenty of talking-head Bush Catholics are actually fundies in Papist clothing. Deal Hudson ('plying students with alcohol and getting blowjobs -- for Jesus!') was a Baptist convert.
Do you think a majority of Catholics would have voted for bush if they knew his base hates them?
I doubt that American Catholics have much in the way of illusions about the fundamentalists. Most of them are neither rural nor stupid, and even in the small Indiana town I grew up in, the Catholics are well aware of antipathies among the rest of the community.
After all, the whole point of a secret ballot is that you're not joining a club when you cast it. You don't have to like the other people who vote for your candidate.
The alleged GOP Convention Kicker has returned to duty, as noted by patriotboy
i think enronization of social security has a nice ring to it. think it would sell?
Friends:
What's the worst thing you can put in your mouth? I've heard varying opinions on this during the election cycle. I need to know because I'm thinking of becoming a Catholic.
Andrew Sullivan
Somewhere in Blogland with a Yummy Aryan
Theodoric, you don't have to like the other people who vote for your candidate, but it should give you pause if the other people who vote for your candidate believe fervently that you're damned to hell, whether you're on their side or not.
It certainly would matter to me, but then I'm not one of those Catholics who voted for Bush.
About the appeal to send goodies to kiddies in Iraq so they can be photographed: remember last month????
Good way to get them blown up.
Mail the kids the stuff after Americans are thrown out. Not a minute earlier.
What we are saying with this plan is that we don't want any homemakers in our society any more.
What they are saying is that is what illegal immigrents are for.
Jeez, I'm glad I'm not an old person these days. I'm in the prime of life and can dodge any bullet the administration has. Hell, I could take what I want if it really came down to it. On my blog we'll be discussing ways one can live off the land raping and pillaging if need be.
Sorry, Angry FFEMT, but there is a problem with using the military as a vehicle for charity in an occupied country. Many reputable NGO's have discouraged this practice, because it makes it blurs the lines between the military and charitable groups that are non-combatants. U.S. civilian contracters already have spent billions of our tax money, and now they say the schools are filthy and in need of serious repair?
I will continue to donate to groups like the AFSC instead.
I know I speak for ALL anonymouses when I say, RC is spot on.
I believe the correct term is anonymice.
when something gets as big and wealthy as AARP has, it's bound to get co-opted, as it clearly has.
of course, the problem now is, they're too huge to slay with a single shot - it's going to take years of denigration from the inside out.
i'd almost recommend a strategy like wingnuts have done with sierra club - work from inside to change the conversation and tone, so that your agenda becomes eventually the group's.
i don't know if that's possible, given the AARP's structure and governance, but anything is possible.
stealth directors, anyone?
Off topic: continued
On my link above, I think it plays to the notion some proposed to me in the past week that the gay marriage issue did not play into the election results as much if hardly at all, as some, including myself, were inclined to believe.
Since then I've had a chance to review a great many post-election analysis from much more reputable sources. Although the moral values issue may not have played as much a part as people thought, in those states where anti-gay marriage amendments were not on the ballot, moral values played little in drawing out voters to the polls.
To this end I apologise to anyone whom I offended in that past posting.
Though I regret the lanquage I used, my gist was not so much that it drew out voters, but rather how it placed an ominous cloud over the election as a whole for which I had hoped not been so fortunately timed to coincide with the most important election(at present) in our lifetime.
Monica_NY, if your're out there I'm sorry if I offended you. I assure you it was nothing personal. In fact the passion with which I often post tends to color my intent in too trollish a manner. Though I consider myself a moderate-liberal, I am of like mind with %99.9 of everything posted on this board.
Let's hope more truth about this election comes out.
MYOB'
.
I think the point is that the NYTs adds to the CW that the bush admin has SS fixed. If the AARP and other liberal obstructors would just get out of the way the bush admin would fix SS.
A "vision" and "ideas" are not a plan.
All right, so "Privatization " is no longer the preferred term. How about "Looting"?
Has anyone else noticed some overlap between the group that pokes fun at politically correct language and the group that deals with polite euphemisms such as "privatization," "moral values," and such? IOKIYAR, I guess.
I think some people have missed one important point: George Orwell wasn't making recommendations.
f, I like "looting" even more than I like "destroying." It has a more piratical feel to it, and that works.
I actually like the idea of staying home with young children to raise them. I think some (not all) young children actually need that. I don't think it's so "1950's." The modern idea is that women have a CHOICE, and most women do both work and stay home alternately depending on her needs and the needs of the family. And now that they are no longer guaranteeing our retirements, we will have to fight tooth and nail to try to be married to our husbands when they die.
Let's hope more truth about this election comes out.
MYOB
Apology accepted my democratic brother now go in peace and may the force be with you.
"You have been given a mandate. ... Put your agenda on the front burner and let it boil. You owe the liberals nothing. They despise you because they despise your Christ,"
Bob Jones...blah blah blah
So now liberals are Christ-haters. From what I know about Jesus, I don't think he'd appreciate this comment.
And by the way, Bob Jones, you're lying when you say that. I've never heard a liberal say that s/he despises Christ. Some of Christ's "so called" followers, the ones that dwell in fear and hatred, like you, maybe, but not Christ.
"Compulsory Stockmarket Speculation"
I think we're giving George too much credit if we call it an "idea." If it were an idea it would have all kinds of reality based consequences and stuff. But it doesn't have any of that. It's more of a belief in the nature of government. The fact that George wants to do "something" to social security has very little to with ideas about social security and more to do with a much larger belief structure in which privitization of social security is only one small dimension. Fo Shizzle.
For More, read my blog @ http://danberkman.blogs.com/fakemaerica
I love it when Ambrosia sings the news.
You don't want to eat the elderly, too stringy. Now fetuses! Or rather, fetii, that is a delicacy. Note how "they" are always cannibals who eat babies.
But we need their stem cells. Beside, our smirking chimp and his "values-voters" only hold life as precious BEFOFE birth. After you are born, their philosphy is like the elephant that proclaims: "All for one and God for all!" as he dances among the chickens.
Whether we do it with depleted uranium weapons in Iraqi or by slowly killing them at home by letting the nation's safety net shrink until we can "drown them all in the bathtub," repugs believe in killing AFTER you are born, not before. Its the only holy thing to do -- a God's will thing.
[old people for fuel] may be right, but it would probably be more economically efficient (not to mention ecologically friendly) to eat them rather than burn them as fuel.
Archidimese
"Waiter, my soilent green tastes funny."
"That's because it's your granny."
Actually, the privatization is just a way for corporations to cash in on the government-run Ponzi scheme. I bet if there was a way to "privatize" state lotteries, that would be on the table too.
Chrissy is right. It's obvious the admin is hoping to divide and conquer. Tell the old folks it won't hurt them, it will only affect younger contributors to the system. And hope the younger ones are not paying attention, or are seduced by the idea of making more money on the stock market.
The only justice in any of this will be that many blue hairs who voted for the Grand Fraud will find themselves wondering, several years down the road, why their social security benefits are buying less than what they used to, and they have to decide: Prescription drugs this month, or the heating bill? What will it be?
The sad part is that a lot of blue hairs DID'T vote for the chimp. And they're gonna get screwed.
I suppose WALMART told Bush they need more workers. Ever notice the workers there? Half are elderly, half have serious tooth decay.
The AARP have obviously just chosen to be GOP whores.
So the obvious question is, is there another, more balanced organization out there representing retired people that has a reasonable prospect of taking over AARP's role as a lobbying organization?
Can we try to get people to sign up with this alternative organization?
Who started this stupid scheme? Sending Iraqi children pencils and pens. Stupid morons, Iraq is not Afganistan. Iraq has highest education in all of the arab world. They don't need our pens and pencils. They need the right to life and right to go see a doctor in case of emergency.
AARP is a marketing organization. It is a pseudo-lobby.
OT: Wires say 2 US brigades routed from Mosul. Warplanes are bombing parts of the city.
1. Repubs want to "drown Social Security in the bathtub."
2. They are waiting for the Depression era folks to die off to pull out the long blades.
Conspiracy Bonus: Flu vaccine shortage will kill thousands of these folks at lower income levels.
I saw that this morning too. The US/Iraqi army forces have lost control of most of Mosul. Not to mention Ramadi, a larger city than Fallujah.
Maybe our "capitalist" economic system is coming under severe strain -- what with all the "Enron" and "WorldCom" style finance. Yes, its still going on; the investment community demands it. For years, the Social Security Trust Find was used to prop up the balance sheet of the Federal Government and hide deficit spending for items like the war in Iraq.
If the dollar continues to fall and foreigners decide our markets are not stable, using Social Security or retirement acconts to subsidize the "private sector" might be viewed as the only feasible way to avoid an economic catastrophy. These funds could be used to prop up the balance sheets of the military-industrial complex.
Of course, the media will not frame the issue in this context because we have been abandoning the essence of market economies for years. This is at the heart of the Iraqi War. All the noise from AAPR just distracts from the real issues. Once this distraction has served its purpose, AARP will cave in to the repugs.
We need to strike the words media and journalism from our vocabulary forever. We'll just use the term PRAVDA.
As far as I can tell, the school supplies aren't for a propaganda tool. I heard about it from the nephew of Matthew, the guy in Iraq on an emergency response message board. I contacted the nephew and Matthew. It was the nephew's idea to start collecting supplies and sending them to his uncle.
I am heartbroken by what has gone on in our name over there. I am not saying that things are peachy and some school supplies will make everything all better. I am furious that our government has screwed things up enough that people like us have to step in to provide what our government has not. If my son needs body armor when he ships out, I will buy it myself even though the government should have provided it. If these kids need school supplies, I am going to try and help out as best I can.
I am not the best at expressing myself. I can understand that people don't want to help. That's fine. I am just posting the info for those who do.
GODAMN THE AMERICAN PEOPLE FOR PUTTING THAT THING BACK IN THERE FOR ANOTHER 4 YEARS!! FUCK YOU AMERICAN PEOPLE!!
I feel the need to shove a lexicon up the ass of the obnoxious, credtinous bureaucrat who said "privatization' is verbotten in AARP discourse...
I googled AARP and went to the site but couldn't find a link on which I could write a (NOT polite, NOT measured, NOT civil) comment on the feculent, gutless fucks who are corrupting the lnaguage of the discussion...
SO...if anyone has a link on which I might deposit my opinions--stinky and full of wrath--on the proper laps... Please reply...
Women have always had to work in one way or another. It was just until recent history that the paradigm shifted to "a woman's place is in the home." That June Cleaver stuff is a fantasy conjured up by WASP males. I resent it.
I've worked since I was 12. I had 3 months off when my daughter was born, and 3 months off when I broke both of my ankles and couldn't move. When I've been in relationships with men, I've more than carried my own weight financially.
THEY'RE SLAUGHTERING THE PEOPLE OF FALLUJAH AND GETTING OUT TROOPS KILLED! HOPE YOU'RE HAPPY AMERICAN PEOPLE! YOU'RE ALL FAT SORRY SACKS OF SHIT!!
The neocons have decided it will be more economically efficient to burn bodies directly instead of sending our solders to the middle east to echange their blood for oil.
While what you say is true -- the greatest efficiencies that result from the burning of humans as fuel lies in the fact that this process allows the body's organic matter to directly contribute to the economic growth of society without the thousands of years that are needed to convert organic matter into oil reserves. The administration's current "blood-for-oil" policy will not sustain us. The neocons are looking out for our well-being. The future is in burning the bodies of "undesireables" to allow the rest of us to prosper.
Thank you, Incognito, at 10:29 AM, for expressing my sentiments exactly. I think I might be your lost triplet.
"Cut your card." Perfect. A huge organization which should be on our side and is on many issues has problems and our response should be: Bail. Quit. Fuck them.
This kind of response is juvenile and self-destructive. If the only wway you can think of fixing the problems of a large organization like this is to leave it, then perhaps you should reconsider dispensing advice to those of us who don't believe in quitting.
I was a member of AARP for all of ten months.
When I found out they were in Bush's back pocket, I quit.
They're not for us.
Thank you, Incognito, at 10:29 AM, for expressing my sentiments exactly. I think I might be your lost triplet.
Vicki Stein
Sorry for my outburst but I just can't reconcile that the American people put that thing back in there.
"Women have always had to work in one way or another. It was just until recent history that the paradigm shifted to "a woman's place is in the home." That June Cleaver stuff is a fantasy conjured up by WASP males. I resent it.
I've worked since I was 12. I had 3 months off when my daughter was born, and 3 months off when I broke both of my ankles and couldn't move. When I've been in relationships with men, I've more than carried my own weight financially."
The June Cleaver/Donna Reed stuff is BULLSHIT, the fantasy of 1950s MALE writers.
I'm 52. I have worked since I was 17 years old.
I worked till the day before I had my first child (went back to work full-time when she was 6 weeks old) and till the week before I had my second (went back to work part-time when he was four months old).
Hey, if women can AFFORD to stay home and they choose to, hooray. It's about choice.
Some of us don't have that luxury and even if we did, who is some asshole stuck in the 1950s to judge us and tell us how to live our lives?
I was never the Susie Homemaker type, and the thought of having to go to "Daddy" for my "allowance" makes me want to puke!
If that makes me a "feminazi", I wear the label proudly.
lol lava.
that reminds me of how one iraqi blogger got indignant because she found americans soldiers bragging about how they taught iraqi children how to wash their hands. yes, that's the ticket, that justified the war. forget WMD. we invaded their country so we could teach the savages proper hygiene.
she reminded her readers iraq was aware of proper hygiene before the americans came. and how the country was noted for their doctors, and listed some who were well known for their specialties.
I found myself the other day in the parking lot of a drugstore getting a dirty look from an old man as I struggled to control an overactive kindergartener and an infant in a carseat. I was completely confused until I realized he must have been looking at my K/E bumpersticker, which I refuse to remove. It wasn't until he pulled away that I saw his W04 sticker.
After that encounter, I had one of those imaginary conversations you (well, I) sometimes have: "How dare you sneer at me for wanting to take care of my family to make the future of this country better! Of course you don't care. You got your social safety net, you raised your kids in a booming economy, you buy this crap mythos about self-sufficiency and patriotism. Well, guess what? You bastards sucked it dry and now I get to raise my kids on the dregs. And you just voted that asshole back in, to make doubly sure that no generation will have the safety net and retirement you got. So screw you." I don't even know if I really believe that, but I was really fuming, obviously.
The AARP serves their constituency.
"This kind of response is juvenile and self-destructive. If the only wway you can think of fixing the problems of a large organization like this is to leave it, then perhaps you should reconsider dispensing advice to those of us who don't believe in quitting."
Oh, right - we're just supposed to keep giving our hard-earned money to people who don't give a rat's ass about us?
That makes sense (NOT!).
If the only wway you can think of fixing the problems of a large organization like this is to leave it, then perhaps you should reconsider dispensing advice to those of us who don't believe in quitting.
I'm left puzzled by this kind of reasoning.
First, the class of those who "don't believe in quitting" is the class you claim membership in. That class will necessarily exclude anyone who will take the advice offered here, which is to quit.
But you criticize even the offering of that advice, even though it is, by definition, advice you will never follow. So it has no application to you at all.
In other words, Atrios should post only what you agree with, or what you would do, and if he doesn't, he shouldn't post at all.
Yet Atrios clearly is not of the class of those who don't believe in quitting. So he is going to post advice favorable to quitting certain organizations at certain times. Which advice you disagree with. And since you disagree with it, Atrios should never post it. Even if he disagrees with you.
The conclusion, then, is that Atrios should only post information you agree with. In short, Atrios should think like you, or stop posting.
The merits of the advice to quit AARP notwithstanding.
" I found myself the other day in the parking lot of a drugstore getting a dirty look from an old man"
What is it with some people who think that their age gives them the right to be fucking ignorant to others?
I would have flipped the old bastard the bird.
Hey, if you don't respect me......
GODAMN THE AMERICAN PEOPLE FOR...
Two DD's in GODDAMN, dude. Now press the caps off key and relax. 49% of these folks voted for change; they should not be damned so lightly.
"The plan is to destroy America and then the elderly will go to ice floes and be shoved to sea.
Except the ice floes are melting, all the better, the GOP feels.
And if this is what America wants, then enjoy!"
This is GOP hypocrisy. They claim not to believe in euthanasia, but they're determined to kill off everyone they deem "useless."
Shades of the Third Reich.
The future is in burning the bodies of "undesireables" to allow the rest of us to prosper.
You're scientific analysis, Dr. Stupid, is correct; but only takes into account the benefits of harvesting the poor, infirmed, or elderly that result from the laws of thermo-science. The economic benefits and economies of scale that will result from consumption of humans for fuel add more value to the administrations policies.
Until people become useless to the ruling class, they participate in our economic system adding to the creation of wealth. When their economic usefulness no longer serves the needs of the ruling elite, we convert the surplus value of their labor into an energy commodity.
I am sure Atrios would agree, the powerful interests that will benefit from this economically efficient production cannot be stopped - just consider it another example of "the-invisible hand" that guides our economy slapping you in the face.
I should probably mention that me, the kid, and the baby were all sick, and were there to get our antibiotics. It might explain my overwrought reaction.
Sorry, Angry FFEMT, but there is a problem with using the military as a vehicle for charity in an occupied country. Many reputable NGO's have discouraged this practice, because it makes it blurs the lines between the military and charitable groups that are non-combatants. U.S. civilian contracters already have spent billions of our tax money, and now they say the schools are filthy and in need of serious repair?
I will continue to donate to groups like the AFSC instead.
That's exactly right. IMHO I think we're responsible for the bombing that killed the united nations workers. When we first went into Iraq we required that any aid handed out was stamped "from the gov. of the USA" or some such nonsense.
So of course the insurgents linked the aid back to the troops.
Our social security money is fueling the war in Iraq. There is no trust fund. There is a fraud fund.
Jeffers -- obviously Atrios is free to dispense advice. That's half of what his blog is about. I should have left that line out, since it was not my point, and as you say, is wrong.
My point is that more and more often, when we don't like how something is going, we take our ball and go home. We should all quit the AARP? That's an unbelievable statement. First, the vast majority of the readers of this blog do not qualify for membership. Second, it is too important an organization to address its many problems by isolating ourselves from it. We should be demanding accountability, as either current or future members.
Or is this yet another institutional organization we are going to cede to Republicans?
When their economic usefulness no longer serves the needs of the ruling elite, we convert the surplus value of their labor into an energy commodity.
I like Dr. Economist's take -- sounds like an investment strategy. I will need one when I join the "ownership society" and become responsible for my own retirement.
NYMary,
You are not alone. I have those conversations on a regular basis. 
It's about language. The Dems are getting killed on language. Words matter, and we need to all work on using consistent language to beat back the wingers.
Privatization, not reform.
Anti-abortion, not pro-life.
Estate tax, not death tax.
War on work, not tax incentives.
Reactionairy, not conservative.
Fundamentalist, not Christian.
Bigotry, not moral values.
Steal the language back. You don't do that by quitting the AARP, you do it by trying to get the AARP to use your language.
correct me if i'm wrong.
but the way i heard this explained is that this has to do with baby boomers on the verge of retiring and taking all of their investment money out of the market. when this happens, the market will go on life support.
the push for privatization is the market's life preserver.
baby boomers on the verge of retiring and taking all of their investment money out of the market. when this happens, the market will go on life support.
This is right -- but be sure to see Dr. Stupid's and Dr. Economist's take on it in the thread above. There are MANY economic interests that are driving this and none of these interests is looking out for the best interests of the common American.
I don't know, maybe instead of cutting up our AARP cards,(first I'd have to get one), we should all join AARP and relentlessly attack them from within, like the NRA was going to do to the Sierra Club, (but failed).
In fact, maybe we should all quit the Democratic Party, join the Republican Party and start going to every meeting and demanding that they stop being such putzes.
It's obvious that when these people are left to their own devices, they get up to no good.
And we do outnumber them.
rooth, I like your thinking, but how could you stand to be in a Republican party meeting? Wouldn't your forebrain start exploding or something?
"When "moral values" was included in poll questions, it was named more often than any other issue."
MYOB
I would say that when a question is asked without any choice many people would answer that moral values are more important than any other issue. If someone had asked me what was important and didn't give me much choice I'd say moral values too.
After all, waging an illegal war is immoral, so is jailing people without a right to trial, so is letting the economy bomb while enriching your friends, letting people become destitute, and on and on. Like they say, it's all in how you pose the question isn't it?
We need to channel Ambrose Briece and write a collective new Devil's Dictionary.
Any time this administration uses the work reform it is advocating looting something.
Dead insurgent obviously means any Iraqi corpse.
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GO WOOT!
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Who knew when I did that apocalyptic movie thirty years ago that it was the Republican Party that would be the threat? Remember, Soylent Green is people.
Call the SS plan what it is.
Commercialization.
The fundies are all hot and bothered every year about the "commercialization" of Christianity (one of the few things I think they have a point about).
Commercialization of elder care.
Big companies making money mistreating Grandma.
*THAT* is the image we have to sell.
This is the invisible hand of the globalization monster. Many baby boomers will be able to work - in fact, may want to work - beyond age 65, thereby maintaining participation in the capital markets, if they're so inclined. But doing what?
In WWII my great grandfather, at age 75 or something, took a job in a ship building plant, because of labor shortage, and he wanted to do his bit for the war effort. No one - including himself - saw this as abusive.
Barring an industrial revival in the US - highly unlikely - we need to re-think the services sectors' role in the world. There is plenty of work to be done, God knows.
To hell with the AARP. We need an alternative organization outside any political party. Marketers know the potent force that is the baby boom. (We're not falling apart yet.)
Quit bitching and start acting.
Bush's plan: influenza
My parents used to avail themselves of some of the discounts available through AARP. When AARP endorsed the idiotic Medicare prescription drug plan, I got curious and did a little research. I found that AARP is heavily involved in the insurance industry, including prescription drug plans. I convinced my parents to dump AARP, as many others did.
It's outsourcing! Outsource social security to mutual funds with huge fees and no promise of payout.
In America, there is no such thing as the public good, only private profits.
A lot of people forget that Social Security was never meant as a sole support mechanism. It was meant to be a safety net. Saying that, we also forget that there are private retirement mechanisms already in place, like IRA's, 401k's etc. Workers already have this option available to them. They don't need to do the other.
I am a member of AARP, and will not leave. Rather I will chose at this timeto work within them to create change. If this doesn't work, I will leave. The 10% discount at motels isn't worth that much to me, since most have senior citizen discounts w/o the need to be a member of AARP.
In fact, the more I think about it the more likely I am to quit sooner rather than later.
WTF are the Democrats doing agreeing to call it privatization?! It's ELIMINATION!!!
It's so disappointing to see that we got our asses kicked, and a week later we're still playing along.
Have we learned anything?
"The future is in burning the bodies of "undesireables" to allow the rest of us to prosper."
ya know, the whole "obesity epidemic"
makes a lot more sense now ...
A lot of people forget that Social Security was never meant as a sole support mechanism.
Ane a lot of people forget that it is an "insurance system" that pays current retirees from a "premium" on workers. Just like car insurance, it is an expense, not a savings plan. Social Security is singlehandedly responsible for lifting an entire generation of senior citizens out of poverty and keeping them there. Unfortunately, now children represent one of the poorest sections of our society -- but there is no AALC (American Association of Little Children).
Bush isn't going to come out with an actual plan for Social Security privatization until his crack team of experts figures out how to make 2+2=1.
They've already got "up is down" figured out, and the media and the American people loved it. 2+2=1 requires the help of some expert mathematicians from Bob Jones University, but I hear they've just about got the solution nailed.
ya know, the whole "obesity epidemic"
makes a lot more sense now ...
WOW, kenga, another POWERFUL economic interest that will benifit from killing the poor, infirmed, elderly, or otherwise undesirable. Fat people could actually be refined into a form of diesel fuel and a number of petroleum products. I can't wait to for chimpy to give me "owernership" of my meager social security payment so that I can invest in the companies that will benifit finacially from the bloodbath. I missed out on the Halliburton opportunities.
And furthermore, there was a news story this week about Charles Schwab trying to get Dubya's attention with his proposal for a means test for Social Security benefits. His idea is to limit your eligibility if you are a retiree with over 50K in annual income, no matter how much you put into the program over the years. This is really getting me in the mood to cash out of my Schwab account and put my money elsewhere.
Of course they don't have a plan! There are priorities! They still have to work out the plan on what to do after invading Iraq.
Screw AARP. I'm four years away from their pitch, and when it arrives, it's going into the circular file. They're in bed with Karl Rove and the rest of the bastards in the White House. Fuckers!
Schwab was behind the reduction in tax rates on dividend income. What a hypocrite! Not to mention an unbelievable conflict of interest. SOP in Bushland.
SS Privatization Plan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1) Allow private Social Security accounts.
2) ????
3) Retire rich!
.
Is this what happens when a Republican operative is appointed to run things? Maybe we should give it a try. Rove for DNC chair!
I never joined the AARP for the simple reason that their membership plea arrived in my mailbox right on the day of my 50th birthday. Rude and creepy.
I'm sure privatization will enrich a few people who "hit it big" in the stock market or currency speculation.
The rest of us will drain through our private accounts by the age of 80 and commit suicide.
So the obvious question is, is there another, more balanced organization out there representing retired people that has a reasonable prospect of taking over AARP's role as a lobbying organization?
Can we try to get people to sign up with this alternative organization?
I remember during the whole Medicare "reform" (hahaha) bill debacle, someone posted an alternative organization. I wish I had written it down at the time.
Does anyone remember?
And how do you go about reforming AARP from within? How do you force them to do anything you want without at least the threat of quitting? That's the only "power" an individual member has right now.
Now, maybe someone could start a letter-writing campaign that would dump millions of hard copy letters on their desks and tie up their administration staff in ways that would make them very, very sorry.
But to do that you need an organization, to organize elderly folks in activism which supports their interests.
But that was what AARP itself was *supposed* to be.
Why support a lobbying organization which purportedly exists to lobby for *YOU* when in fact said organization is supporting your opponent? Makes no sense.
So please, if someone saved the info from the Medicare discussion on the alternative lobbying group for seniors, please, please post the info again.
According to my newspaper this morning, AARP does *not* support having private accounts as part of Social Security, whatsoever. It does support having more government incentives for additional savings in private accounts in addition to Social Security, such as IRA's & 401ks.
I emailed the Times and got a response.
Since I decided to stop paying the Times Tax yesterday, I sent in the following:
"Hello. I have noticed in your coverage of President Bush and his allies discussing what they want to do to Social Security, your paper frequently uses the term "plan" to describe it. This is however, incorrect. There is no Plan on the table from President Bush that describes what age brackets would be included, what the rules would be, nor anything other than what he said in campaign speeches. This in no way constitutes a plan, but is simply an idea, with few details given.
It is things like this which recently caused me to finally cancel my subscription."
I just got a reply of:
"
The President's wanting to move social security benefits into private retirement accounts is enough to constitute a "plan" regardless of any details of the how to's.
"
To which I said:
"
Webster's defines a "plan" as "[a] scheme devised; a method of action or procedure expressed or described in language; a project; as, the plan of a constitution; the plan of an expedition.". I would submit that wanting to move social security benefits into private retirement account is not a plan but rather an idea, defined by Webster's as "[a] general notion, or a conception formed by generalization."
"
Just FYI...
now back to lurking.
According to my newspaper this morning, AARP does *not* support having private accounts as part of Social Security, whatsoever. It does support having more government incentives for additional savings in private accounts in addition to Social Security, such as IRA's & 401ks.
Don't kid yourself, mary -- with the prevelance of "Enron" style accounting and outright lying that the smirking chimp and his band of thieves specializes in -- they will tell you that they are leaving social security alone and merely offering "incentives" for peole to start their own IRA. All the while they will gut the social security trust fund to pay for things like their wars in the middle east and possibly north korea. This will make the program insolvent and they will form a "blue ribbon" committee to look into the bancrupsy of social security. It will not be possibel to raise revenues for the program, because the money is being siphoned into private accounts that are being robbed blind by "financial advisors" solving it. They will claim that it isn't there fault that the program has to be dismantled because there is no other option. AARP will cave in at that point, because they will have their own "investment interests" just like they function and collude with the insurance industry now. There protests now only serve to distract and to quit fears until the real crisis is here.
Don't suggest resigning from AARP. I have found that you can't resign. They ignore all your efforts. It's like the TV commercial where the guy keeps eating cereal while he is being fired for the 10th time.
I immediately quit over the Medicare travesty. We received an insurance offer from them today.
RE:AARP...it is history. No one in their right mind would continue to be a member nor anyone with half a brain would join. It's time has come and GONE. They will never be the force for nor the voice for the retired in this country. They sold out and blew it!
Alan Simpson was right: AARP is nothing but an insurance club that branched out into travel services.
These people should be roasted on a spit over a slow fire for their craven fawning over the Bushies.
Bush's 'plan', simply put, is nothing more than reducing the current FICA tax but requiring that people invest it as 'advised' by the federal government aka Wall Street.
The only problem being that benefits payable must be met by raising another tax elsewhere, reducing the number of recipients, or cutting benefits altogether.
Take your pick of alternatives; the nut is on the order of $1 trillion, and must be raised soon after the bill is signed.
Fortunately, this 'plan' has the same chance of being passed as the Constitutional amendment banning gay marriage.
Just anoth3r example of FDR's no-good spawn's creation designede to scare the whits out of one of the most vulnerable segments of society.
Jimmy R. createted that one about the same time he imposed TUITION on SUNY students.
< So the obvious question is, is there another, more balanced organization out there representing retired people that has a reasonable prospect of taking over AARP's role as a lobbying organization? >
The Alliance For Retired Americans:
http://www.retiredamericans.org/
Yes, but AARP does oppose the private plans, whatever they are called.
Here's what Moynihan and Parsons came up with in 2001:
www.csss.gov
Why don't they just get rid of the wage base, the upper limit on income subject to FICA?
A "vision" and "ideas" are not a plan.
hadenough | Email | Homepage | 11.12.04 - 9:59 am | #
Well, hadenough, public@nyt.com apparently feels differently:
Dear celticshel,
The President's wanting to move social security benefits into private retirement accounts is enough to constitute a "plan" regardless of any details of the how to's.
Thank you for your message,
Sincerely,
Michael McElroy
(Filling in for Arthur Bovino while he is on vacation)
Office of the Public Editor
The New York Times
I don't understand some of the trolls....okay, Bushies...who appear on the Atrios boards.
They come in here like gloating little kids saying "we won."
Who's "we" - what are they, royalty? Or just schizophrenic?
They all seem to have this attitude of "how dare you not surrender your free will and bow down to King George"?
Well, sorry -- I don't like the SOB, I didn't vote for him, and I don't have to support him. He is NOT synonymous with America and I don't have to like him to love America.
If that's too much for you to get your little minds around, oh well......
Yes, they call US unAmerican and then tell US we should leave the country, ad nauseam. As if these little nobodies who live vicariously through Monkey Boy and the GOP, have the power to decide who belongs in this country and who doesn't.
I pay my bills and the taxes (that support most of those in the red states) and I am law-abiding. I'm not going anywhere.
What are these wankers trying to act like bad-asses going to do about that?
Do these people think they're going to MAKE me go to church? I work a full-time job; my weekends are MINE! I'll bet most of these "value" folks in Cracker Nation don't go to church (they're too busy sleeping off Saturday's night's drinking binge).
I have three ancestors who were Mayflower passengers. I believe they left England to FIND freedom. I don't intend to just allow some pack of nuts to TAKE that freedom away from ME!
Don't tell me what I should or should not believe. If I choose not to believe any of it, that's my choice.
And don't go talking about freedom and being a real American if you can't respect OUR right NOT to like YOUR president!
I don't understand some of the trolls....okay, Bushies...who appear on the Atrios boards.
They come in here like gloating little kids saying "we won."
Who's "we" - what are they, royalty? Or just schizophrenic?
They all seem to have this attitude of "how dare you not surrender your free will and bow down to King George"?
Well, sorry -- I don't like the SOB, I didn't vote for him, and I don't have to support him. He is NOT synonymous with America and I don't have to like him to love America.
If that's too much for you to get your little minds around, oh well......
Yes, they call US unAmerican and then tell US we should leave the country, ad nauseam. As if these little nobodies who live vicariously through Monkey Boy and the GOP, have the power to decide who belongs in this country and who doesn't.
I pay my bills and the taxes (that support most of those in the red states) and I am law-abiding. I'm not going anywhere.
What are these wankers trying to act like bad-asses going to do about that?
Do these people think they're going to MAKE me go to church? I work a full-time job; my weekends are MINE! I'll bet most of these "value" folks in Cracker Nation don't go to church (they're too busy sleeping off Saturday's night's drinking binge).
I have three ancestors who were Mayflower passengers. I believe they left England to FIND freedom. I don't intend to just allow some pack of nuts to TAKE that freedom away from ME!
Don't tell me what I should or should not believe. If I choose not to believe any of it, that's my choice.
And don't go talking about freedom and being a real American if you can't respect OUR right NOT to like YOUR president!
"baby boomers on the verge of retiring and taking all of their investment money out of the market. when this happens, the market will go on life support."
Nice to see how some folks think ALL baby boomers are rich and HAVE things like "investment money."
"baby boomers on the verge of retiring and taking all of their investment money out of the market. when this happens, the market will go on life support."
Nice to see how some folks think ALL baby boomers are rich and HAVE things like "investment money."
"I actually like the idea of staying home with young children to raise them. I think some (not all) young children actually need that. I don't think it's so "1950's." The modern idea is that women have a CHOICE, and most women do both work and stay home alternately depending on her needs and the needs of the family."
Yes, many of us didn't have that choice.
And these "values" people want to take that choice away from the women who do.
Funny, how they think welfare moms should work, but the rest of us who have kids should be June Cleaver.
Think it has something to do with the fact that they want the welfare folks to fill the jobs that the "ruling class" (white males) don't want?
"I actually like the idea of staying home with young children to raise them. I think some (not all) young children actually need that. I don't think it's so "1950's." The modern idea is that women have a CHOICE, and most women do both work and stay home alternately depending on her needs and the needs of the family."
Yes, many of us didn't have that choice.
And these "values" people want to take that choice away from the women who do.
Funny, how they think welfare moms should work, but the rest of us who have kids should be June Cleaver.
Think it has something to do with the fact that they want the welfare folks to fill the jobs that the "ruling class" (white males) don't want?
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